The main way I protect the sanctity of my marriage is by loving my wife and supporting her in what she does.

Strangely, I'm able to do this without any legislative support whatsoever.

Oh family values.

I think a lot of people in this life would be more happy if they embraced who and what they are rather than trying to hide from it or suppress it.

More evidence that "protecting the sanctity of marriage" is just highfalutin language for "controlling the behaviors of other people that make me feel ooky."

Any relation to the infamous Brothers Koch?

Anyone think Family Values would be a great name for a rap group or metal band?

Angry sex!

It should be noted that Ms Koch didn't resign from office - but simply from her leadership position as Minnesota Senate Majority Leader.

Charles wrote:

But Koch, like so many other “family values” GOP politicians caught cheating, doesn’t seem to have much concern for the sanctity of her own marriage: Sen. Koch quit over ‘inappropriate’ relationship.

Infinity times this.

The Republican mayor of Medford, NJ has recently stepped down due to strong evidence he had an affair with a male escort. He's a middle age married man with kids.

I could absolutely care less what he does in his private life. What gets my goat is guys like him associate with a political party who goes out of their way to shout that only they understand what makes a real family. They also make no bones about the fact that they would criminalize homosexuality in a heart beat.

The only good thing I can say about the Medford mayor is that, to the best of my knowledge, he wasn't an obnoxious family values crusader. Unlike this dipshit from MN.

re: #9 mattand

Charles wrote:

Infinity times this.

The Republican mayor of Medford, NJ has recently stepped down due to strong evidence he had an affair with a male escort. He's a middle age married man with kids.

I could absolutely care less what he does in his private life. What gets my goat is guys like him associate with a political party who goes out of their way to shout that only they understand what makes a real family. They also make no bones about the fact that they would criminalize homosexuality in a heart beat.

The only good thing I can say about the Medford mayor is that, to the best of my knowledge, he wasn't an obnoxious family values crusader. Unlike this dipshit from MN.

This is how I feel. It's your business what you do in your own time but exactly the Republican party goes out of its way to proclaim that only they support "family values" not to mention the gay bashing.

I won't hold my breath awaiting the GOP outcry for her to be given a large scarlet "A" to wear.

re: #11 oaktree

Never know. This one is a woman, after all. Different rules may be in play.

re: #1 Obdicut

The main way I protect the sanctity of my marriage is by loving my wife and supporting her in what she does.

Strangely, I'm able to do this without any legislative support whatsoever.

Bullshit. If DOMA hadn't been passed, you'd be sniffing coke off a rentboy's abs right now. Don't lie.
/

re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. If DOMA hadn't been passed, you'd be sniffing coke of a rentboy's abs right now. Don't lie.
/

Not true. The carbonation tickles Obdicut's nose.

THANK YOU! GOOD NIGHT!

re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth

I hate cocaine, but I do try to be polite.

re: #15 Obdicut

I hate cocaine...

commie.

re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. If DOMA hadn't been passed, you'd be sniffing coke off a rentboy's abs right now. Don't lie.
/

They know they would. They reason everyone else would do the same too.

half-/

“I couldn’t pass the party’s purity test,” said former Republican state Sen. Paul Koering, who is gay and who eventually lost the endorsement of his own party. “I guess this [the Koch situation] shows what goes around comes around. If you’re going to have a party that believes it’s made up of people of the purest standards, you’re going to have a very small party.

Indeed.

The day she resigned, she betrayed no hint of scandal. In an interview with the Star Tribune, she joked, laughed and brushed aside questions about whether her leadership had been threatened from inside her caucus.

"This was a decision about me looking to the next option. That's what this is about," Koch said. "It's public service and it is not supposed to be forever."

Strange, how often complete denial is the first reaction.

"At first, she breitbarted the charges."

It sucks about Havel by the way. I was in Prague a few years back. The Czech and Slovak people are great people.

:sigh: Laundry awaits. Laters y'all.

/_{and yes, I'm still pissed about having to throw out those tacos yesterday}

re: #2 HappyWarrior

Oh family values.

Family values only has to be applied to the members of the out-groups because they're the ones threatening the in-group marriages. In-group threats aren't really threats.

re: #11 oaktree

I won't hold my breath awaiting the GOP outcry for her to be given a large scarlet "A" to wear.

She's an atheist?

Another example of do as I say not as I do. Practically everyone one of them has the morals of an alley cat. Please excuse me I did not mean to offend any cat overlords./

Patricians behaving as Patricians.

Protecting the sanctity of marriage is code speak for controlling other people's behavior nothing more. They can't legally stop two people from loving each other so the haters do what they can to fuck with other people's lives by any means they can.

On a side note AA is unconstitutional. People would be better served going to the Betty Ford Clinic.

If only those activist judges in the neighboring state of Iowa hadn't legalized same-sex marriage, she never would've cheated on her husband.

Family Values conservative bigots are always the biggest freaks around.

Keep your children away from them.

If I talk about family values loud enough, maybe people won't notice that I'm actually condemning myself.

///

Clearly Amy Koch is a victim for having succumbed to this affair by the gay-agenda driven society. Outside forces driven by the Devil, homosexuality, is a temptation that must be resisted through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Do not let the homosexuals tempt you into these sinful ways and await the day when a Republican in the White House pushes a gay marriage amendment in congress to help prevent others from falling victim to the gay-agenda and it's lascivious ways such as Mrs. Koch and let only God be her judge.

Honesty, integrity, consistency...THESE are family values worth advocating.

So by her actions, is she readily admitting that perhaps monogamy isn't as naturally occurring as so claimed?

re: #31 Gus 802

You forgot atheism. Atheism leads to turtle fucking.

re: #33 Obdicut

You forgot atheism. Atheism leads to turtle fucking.

Hey! That's a long list you know. Things Republicans hate...

re: #33 Obdicut

You forgot atheism. Atheism leads to turtle fucking.

BULLSHIT!
PENGUINS.
SHEESH.

re: #32 eclectic infidel

So by her actions, is she readily admitting that perhaps monogamy isn't as naturally occurring as so claimed?

Of course not. She's a Republican. The only reason she's resigning is because she got caught, not because she's a raging hypocrite.

re: #35 Varek Raith

BULLSHIT!
PENGUINS.
SHEESH.

It's still atheism all the way down.

Scientism and the New York Times!

re: #30 Lidane

If I talk about family values loud enough, maybe people won't notice that I'm actually condemning myself.

///

These people are among the most self-loathing, in the world.

[Link: www.EvenWorseThanTheMullahs.com...]

re: #35 Varek Raith

BULLSHIT!
PENGUINS.
SHEESH.

Yeah. You would know.

//

re: #37 oaktree

It's still atheism all the way down.

And then there are queer atheists.

That must *really* make socons blood boil - even evaporate.

re: #41 eclectic infidel

And then there are queer atheists.

That must *really* make socons blood boil - even evaporate.

Doesn't take much for that. A woman in a pair of pants can have the same effect.

In fact, anyone existing and thriving outside the dictates of their self-hate lifestyle can have the same effect.

re: #41 eclectic infidel

And then there are queer atheists.

That must *really* make socons blood boil - even evaporate.

Black, queer atheists of Muslim descent who drink latte and eat arugula.

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Black, queer atheists of Muslim descent who drink latte and eat arugula.

Sorry, sip latte. They always sip.

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Black, queer atheists of Muslim descent who drink latte and eat arugula.

And have stable relationships and appear happy.

re: #33 Obdicut

You forgot atheism. Atheism leads to turtle fucking.

It's turtles all the way down.

re: #46 b_sharp

It's turtles all the way down.

The infinite orgy.

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

The infinite orgy.

The ultimate line dance.

re: #41 eclectic infidel

And then there are queer atheists.

That must *really* make socons blood boil - even evaporate.

A real atheist will fuck anything respect everyone in the morning , so there is no need for labels like 'queer'.

So how many billions of dollars has American society spent in litigating and fighting against the primitive opposition to gay marriage? It must be in the billions of dollars all told.

For those who were complaining that support for Bradley Manning Wasn't on the recommended list at Dkos...
A Man in Tunisia, a Movement on Wall Street, and the Soldier Who Ignited the Fuse
byMichael Moore

...I want to honor Bradley Manning on this, his 24th birthday, and ask the millions of you reading this to join with me in demanding his immediate release. He does not deserve the un-American treatment, including cruel solitary confinement, he's received in over eighteen months of imprisonment. If anything, this young man deserves a friggin' medal. He did what great Americans have always done -- he took a bold stand against injustice and he did it without stopping for a minute to consider the consequences for himself.

On the recommended list. Tip Jar: (124+ / 0-)

re: #33 Obdicut

You forgot atheism. Atheism leads to turtle fucking.

It's turtles, going all the way down...

///

re: #46 b_sharp

It's turtles all the way down.

DAMNIT!!! Stole my line!

;-P

re: #53 talon_262

DAMNIT!!! Stole my line!

;-P

Somebody had to do it.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

I think Obdi called you out for saying that they were shilling for Manning instead of being concerned for OWS trying to shut down Obama's office. There's no question that many, if not most DKos folks are sympathethic to Manning or that pro-Manning diaries appear from time to time. It's just they don't spend all their time writing these diaries, and there didn't seem to have been many such diaries today. That there now appears one is not surprising, but neither it justifies the "they were shilling for Manning today instead of protesting OWS on Obama" claim.

re: #46 b_sharp

It's turtles all the way down.

Gives turtle soup a whole new meaning.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

For those who were complaining that support for Bradley Manning Wasn't on the recommended list at Dkos...
A Man in Tunisia, a Movement on Wall Street, and the Soldier Who Ignited the Fuse
byMichael Moore

On the recommended list. Tip Jar: (124+ / 0-)

if you dig too hard you may well end up blunting your shovel

re: #57 engineer dog

if you dig too hard you may well end up blunting your shovel

The edge is already gone.

re: #55 Sergey Romanov

I think Obdi called you out for saying that they were shilling for Manning instead of being concerned for OWS trying to shut down Obama's office.

That's, of course not was I was saying. I said they seem unconcerned about the political ramifications of embracing radicalism. When the usual idiots try to twist my words and want endless squabbles about nonsense and strawman arguments I just scroll past. It's a waste of time.

re: #59 Killgore Trout

That's, of course not was I was saying. I said they seem unconcerned about the political ramifications of embracing radicalism. When the usual idiots try to twist my words and want endless squabbles about nonsense and strawman arguments I just scroll past. It's a waste of time.

Who is embracing radicalism?

re: #60 b_sharp

Who is embracing radicalism?

You don't think hailing Bradley Manning as a hero is radical?

re: #59 Killgore Trout

That may be so, but your comments can be too general/enigmatic at times, so complaining about misinterpretation doesn't help. Write more clearly.

Also, when you call posters "idiots", it doesn't help either.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

On the recommended list. TDip Jar: (124+ / 0-)
ftfy

re: #63 sattv4u2

On the recommended list. TDip Jar: (124+ / 0-)
ftfy

I don't see any dissenting comments over there regarding Manning. That's pretty surprising. I thought for sure the support wasn't that widespread.

re: #61 Killgore Trout

You don't think hailing Bradley Manning as a hero is radical?

Speaking only for myself..no.

re: #64 Killgore Trout

I don't see any dissenting comments over there regarding Manning. That's pretty surprising. I thought for sure the support wasn't that widespread.

I'm sure the 1st wave of a thread like that often elicits support
Dissent will probably come later

re: #61 Killgore Trout

You don't think hailing Bradley Manning as a hero is radical?

You have a rather loose definition of radical. Does that definition include positive reaction to all whistleblowers or just the ones who expose something in the US?

re: #65 eclectic infidel

Speaking only for myself..no.

Ok, Upding for an honest answer.

re: #67 b_sharp

I wouldn't call leaking 250,000 cables whistleblowing.

re: #67 b_sharp

You have a rather loose definition of radical. Does that definition include positive reaction to all whistleblowers or just the ones who expose something in the US?

You call what Manning (allegedly) did "whistleblowing" ??

re: #70 sattv4u2

You call what Manning (allegedly) did "whistleblowing" ??

Not surprising that we have support for him here too. Sad but true.

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Not surprising that we have support for him here too. Sad but true.

Not sure I would call that "support" till I see evidence that someone here called him a "hero' or "demanded" his release,,, or the like

Even hypothetical support for wikileaks as an intellectual argument is a bit of a stretch. Support for Bradley Manning is really off the rails. I'm sorry but that's real looney toons stuff.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

For those who were complaining that support for Bradley Manning Wasn't on the recommended list at Dkos...

Actually, what I complained about was you lying and claiming that they were 'all' supporting Manning and talking about the US becoming a police state.

And in fact, you're still lying, since a search for Tunisa on the front page of Kos turns up nothing.

Why keep doing this, man?

re: #67 b_sharp

You have a rather loose definition of radical. Does that definition include positive reaction to all whistleblowers or just the ones who expose something in the US?

I don't consider Manning to be a whistleblower of any kind; he's an opportunist who violated his oath and security clearance to give boatloads of classified info to a opportunist with a much larger ego and soapbox (Assange). I have to wonder if these hearings here lately on his sexual orientation are part of some ploy to wither get him some leniency; frankly, all things considered, it should be a non-factor.

Just my opinion, but Manning can fucking rot.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

Oh, sorry, it's on the second page of the recommended list.

Well, certainly one diary about Manning, not on the front page, definitely amounts to "all" of DKOS talking about Manning and how the US is a police state.

What a fucking joke.

re: #72 sattv4u2

Not sure I would call that "support" till I see evidence that someone here called him a "hero' or "demanded" his release,,, or the like

I think Manning is a hero...winning Superbowls like that and then letting his brother do the same...you can't make that kind of shit up except in the nfl (which is rigged, by the way...nothing else explains the Vikings).

re: #76 Obdicut

I mean, my god, that article has nearly 32 comments on it. That's pretty much all of DKOS, right?

Iran 'Months Away From Nuclear Weapon' For Five Years Now, Sets New Record

mullahs declare goal is to continue to be months away from a nuclear weapon for at least 15 years

re: #76 Obdicut

From my reading, the consensus there is pro-Manning with a few dissenters.

I should note, however, that 100+ dings by itself is not an overwhelming support.

A Man in Tunisia, a Movement on Wall Street, and the Soldier Who Ignited the Fuse
by Michael Moore
32 comments on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 12:53 AM PST with 137 Recommends
The Winter of Our Occupation
by Michael Moore
91 comments on Tue Dec 06, 2011 at 08:55 PM PST with 188 Recommends
Where Does Occupy Wall Street Go From Here?
by Michael Moore
468 comments on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 01:23 PM PST with 573 Recommends
Life Among the 1%
by Michael Moore
231 comments on Thu Oct 27, 2011 at 05:22 AM PDT with 765 Recommends
A Note from Michael Moore
by Michael Moore
154 comments on Sat Oct 22, 2011 at 11:40 PM PDT with 235 Recommends

re: #77 darthstar

Indy won
Green Bay lost

Full moon!?!?!

re: #80 Sergey Romanov

I fully think that most commenters on dkos are pro-Manning, with probably a pretty low understanding of what actually happened.

That's not the claim Killgore made, though, and he knows it.

I'm pro-Manning getting a trial, myself. I think he'll be convicted-- and justly so. But he really should get a trial.

re: #73 Killgore Trout

In that case I'm a loon. Given what his actions led too, I think he does deserve a medal. That said he also deserves to be court martialed and dishonorably discharged.

re: #81 sattv4u2

Indy won
Green Bay lost

Full moon!?!?!

Figures that Indy's sole win so far this season would be against my Titans, which effectively snuffs out any chance at a wild card slot for the playoffs this years.

Sonofabitch...

By the way, I demand either Manning be released to Minnesota...they could use a QB.

re: #83 BishopX

That's a highly contradictory statement.

re: #82 Obdicut

yup

re: #61 Killgore Trout

You don't think hailing Bradley Manning as a hero is radical?

Radical? No.

As a vet who was in Intel & had a clearance, I think he's a foolish & cowardly git who deserves a prison cell for a long time. That said, supporting him may well be stupid and/or foolish but it's not "radical". He may even be supported by some who really are radical but it is not their support of him that makes them radical.

As I've mentioned to you before, I know radical. You've obviously never had the "pleasure" of knowing real radicals. It's your oblivious lack of understanding of the far left that has made your postings on OWS & Manning so hilariously silly to me. Talking to some dude selling "Socialist Worker" at OWS doesn't exactly cut it.

A lot of pro-Manning sentiment stems from his alleged mistreatment, the delays with the trial, as well as from misunderstanding that he is being punished for the video.

re: #83 BishopX

In that case I'm a loon. Given what his actions led too, I think he does deserve a medal. That said he also deserves to be court martialed and dishonorably discharged.

Nuanced position! :D

re: #81 sattv4u2

Indy won
Green Bay lost

Full moon!?!?!

Green Bay was looking past them to next week I think and it bit their ass off. I turned off the radio in the 2nd quarter because it was obvious they were going to throw it away.

re: #91 wlewisiii

Green Bay was looking past them to next week I think and it bit their ass off. I turned off the radio in the 2nd quarter because it was obvious they were going to throw it away.

I always find games like that funny-- where the better-on-paper team thinks that all they have to do is show up. After all, they're better, right? So a worse team couldn't beat them. It's science!

re: #86 Obdicut

My take is that he violated his oath in a major, major way. The fact that what he did had a very large positive effect doesn't detract from this. So he should face a court martial, and probably be kicked out of the service. That said, he deserves to be recognized for what he did in a positive way too.

Does that make sense?

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Even hypothetical support for wikileaks as an intellectual argument is a bit of a stretch.

Most Americans would be much happier simply not knowing that their tax dollars went to a child pimp to pay for young boys to be raped at a bacha bazi party for stoned Afghan policemen. Out of sight, out of mind.

I don't support Wikileaks, Assange or Manning, but what's a stretch is to pretend that some of what's come out isn't relevant to the public discourse, or should have been kept secret to begin with.

re: #93 BishopX

What positive effect did he have?

re: #93 BishopX

Yes, but the assumptions are shaky, both about the positive effect, and that the mere effect warrants a medal for him regardless of his actual intent.

re: #75 talon_262

I don't consider Manning to be a whistleblower of any kind; he's an opportunist who violated his oath and security clearance to give boatloads of classified info to a opportunist with a much larger ego and soapbox (Assange). I have to wonder if these hearings here lately on his sexual orientation are part of some ploy to wither get him some leniency; frankly, all things considered, it should be a non-factor.

Just my opinion, but Manning can fucking rot.

OK, what is the difference between a whistleblower and Manning? Is it the size of the release, the intent behind it, or the potential consequences?

His sexual orientation is irrelevant.

re: #81 sattv4u2

Indy won
Green Bay lost

Full moon!?!?!

Crazy stuff..It's bad for Indy.. We want the first pick so we don't need to start winning games..
and good for Green Bay..All the pressure is off...
Lombardi said the best thing that could have happened to the Champion 1961 team was to lose that game to the Lions..all the pressure went away..
Pressure is a funny thing in sports or anything...
If you put a 2x4 on the floor I'd bet most of us here could walk the length of it no problem..
Put it up 10 feet in the air with a concrete floor below...Most of us couldn't walk 1/2 way across it...It's called pressure

re: #86 Obdicut

That's a highly contradictory statement.

Nah, more like actions have consequences.

re: #95 Obdicut

The cables were a major catalyst for the uprising in Tunisia, and a somewhat lesser role in Egypt and Libya. I think he deserves some credit for the Arab Spring.

re: #97 b_sharp

A whistleblower releases information about wrongdoings. There is simply no way Manning read all 250,000 cables, so in leaking them he didn't release information about wrongdoings but just a secret information.

re: #100 BishopX

The cables were a major catalyst for the uprising in Tunisia, and a somewhat lesser role in Egypt and Libya. I think he deserves some credit for the Arab Spring.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

re: #100 BishopX

The cables were a major catalyst for the uprising in Tunisia, and a somewhat lesser role in Egypt and Libya. I think he deserves some credit for the Arab Spring.

Seriously? You're saying corruption in the Tunisian and Egyptian governments was news to the citizens of those countries?

Where are you getting that narrative from, of the Middle Eastern dudes dependent on a brave Westerner releasing information for them to launch an uprising?

re: #95 Obdicut

What positive effect did he have?

The material released may have triggered the uprising in Tunisia.

Man, you never know what impending graduation is going to feel like until it hits you. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve. Only instead of cookies and milk, I have beer and soon to be pizza to drink and eat. Gotta get up real early for the last final too.

Oh, just wanted to post this, the discussion about gay marriage and turtles reminded me of a particular blog:

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/

Read the About Us section for further info.

Do you really want a military where you have to worry about your fellow service men and women divulging classified and sensitive information with no regard to the information contained therein to foreign entities and our enemies? Keep in mind that regardless of how one feels about a globalist perspective we still have enemies in this world that would gladly see our society come to an end.

Manning will be lucky if he doesn't get a life sentence out of this. I have little sympathy for this man and any mention of his sexual identity and/or gender dysphoria is irrelevant in this matter. While I may sound harsh to some I don't think he should be given a life sentence but should face a minimum of 8 years in prison.

re: #104 b_sharp

The material released may have triggered the uprising in Tunisia.

I'd say it was the high unemployment, crushing poverty, years of corruption, police brutality, the government's heavy-handed attempts to quell dissent during the food crisis, and most of all, the self-immolation of Mohamed Bouazizi.

Why do you credit the release of the information? Do you honestly think people in Tunisa fired up the internet and went "Holy smokes, our government is corrupt! We never knew!"

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

A lot of pro-Manning sentiment stems from his alleged mistreatment, the delays with the trial, as well as from misunderstanding that he is being punished for the video.

Also I'm pretty sure most Manning supporters are sticking with the deceptively edited and creative interpretation of the video. The backstory and unedited video tell a very different story than what Manning supporters believe.

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Oh, deception? You mean, like claiming that people complained "that support for Bradley Manning Wasn't on the recommended list at Dkos..."? When what you actually said was the ludicrous falsehood:

No sign of concern from Dkos today. They're all shilling for Bradley Manning and worried about an American Police State.

Is that the sort of deception you're talking about?

I'm finding not much support for Manning among the liberals I follow on Twitter. There's a lot of criticism for people like Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald these days, coming from liberals.

re: #109 Killgore Trout

The truth is that neither Assange's spin, nor the denials of any culpability whatsoever are true.

The idea that Manning and Wikileaks was a catalyst for the Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions kind of remind kind of reminds me of those Hollywood movies set in Africa in which the protagonist that saves the "native peoples" is always some white guy from the United Kingdom or America.

re: #107 Gus 802

Manning will be lucky if he doesn't get a life sentence out of this. I have little sympathy for this man and any mention of his sexual identity and/or gender dysphoria is irrelevant in this matter.

It's worse than irrelevant, it seeks to impugn the reputation and perceived reliability of an entire class of service members who've done nothing to deserve this betrayal. Manning's lawyers are really stepping in it with this stunt.

re: #105 HappyWarrior

Man, you never know what impending graduation is going to feel like until it hits you. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve. Only instead of cookies and milk, I have beer and soon to be pizza to drink and eat. Gotta get up real early for the last final too.

Well, then, you need a quart of good whiskey too!

//Well, perhaps if you were Winston Churchill who was alleged to kill a quart a night during WWII.

re: #101 Sergey Romanov

I whistleblower releases information about wrongdoings. There is simply no way Manning read all 250,000 cables, so in leaking them he didn't release information about wrongdoings but just a secret information.

I assume from that there is a moral attribute to the definition of whistleblower that I've not considered.

I can see the anger at his release of material with the potential of causing deaths, I can also see the anger at his disregard for the oath he took, but making those who regard him as a whistleblower out to be radical rather than possibly misinformed confuses me.

In fact, I just read a liberal blog post that called Greenwald a "far right libertarian masquerading as a liberal."

re: #113 Gus 802

The idea that Manning and Wikileaks was a catalyst for the Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions kind of remind kind of reminds me of those Hollywood movies set in Africa in which the protagonist that saves the "native peoples" is always some white guy from the United Kingdom or America.

That's another point I wanted to bring up. I think it's very insulting and condescending to credit Wikileaks and Manning for the Arab Spring.

re: #115 wlewisiii

Well, then, you need a quart of good whiskey too!

//Well, perhaps if you were Winston Churchill who was alleged to kill a quart a night during WWII.

I have only a little Bacardi left. Whiskey is my best friend on nights where I become Mr. Poet though. Jameson, Tullamore Dew for the wins.

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

It's worse than irrelevant, it seeks to impugn the reputation and perceived reliability of an entire class of service members who've done nothing to deserve this betrayal. Manning's lawyers are really stepping in it with this stunt.

For sure. Especially in light of the recent repeal of DADT.

re: #118 Killgore Trout

That's another point I wanted to bring up. I think it's very insulting and condescending to credit Wikileaks and Manning for the Arab Spring.

I think so too. I think what deserves credit perhaps indirectly is the spread of communication but ultimately it's on the people themselves who rose up.

Yeah, Manning's no hero at all.

re: #116 b_sharp

> I assume from that there is a moral attribute to the definition of whistleblower that I've not considered.

It stems from the etymology, if you will. You only blow whistle if you're trying to sound alarm about a wrongdoing.

re: #107 Gus 802

When I completed my final Top Secret Clearance interview for the Navy I stood before 2 FBI agents, raised my right hand and swore to my country I would defend America's secrets..Against both domestic and Foreign enemies..
If you break your oath against my country? I could care less what happens to you..go to prison forever? oh well..

re: #103 Obdicut

There's a big difference between, "we know our government is corrupt" and "The daughter of our leader has how many exotic animal is a private zoo?"

Manning doesn't deserve the lions share of the glory, but I do think he deserves some.

re: #118 Killgore Trout

That's another point I wanted to bring up. I think it's very insulting and condescending to credit Wikileaks and Manning for the Arab Spring.

It really is very insulting. And in an ironic twist, it almost reeks of cultural imperialism.

re: #125 BishopX

There's a big difference between, "we know our government is corrupt" and "The daughter of our leader has how many exotic animal is a private zoo?"

Manning doesn't deserve the lions share of the glory, but I do think he deserves some.

Is there concrete evidence that the cables were an influence? Or is that just an inference?

re: #111 Charles

I'm finding not much support for Manning among the liberals I follow on Twitter. There's a lot of criticism for people like Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald these days, coming from liberals.

I don't agree with Jane..But I still like her..FDL was the first place I ever blogged..

re: #125 BishopX

There's a big difference between, "we know our government is corrupt" and "The daughter of our leader has how many exotic animal is a private zoo?"

Really? What's the big difference?

You do know about Mohamed Bouazizi, right?

re: #103 Obdicut

Seriously? You're saying corruption in the Tunisian and Egyptian governments was news to the citizens of those countries?

Where are you getting that narrative from, of the Middle Eastern dudes dependent on a brave Westerner releasing information for them to launch an uprising?

Knowing about corruption and being angry enough for action aren't equivalent, they're two necessary parts to action.

re: #128 HoosierHoops

I don't agree with Jane..But I still like her..FDL was the first place I ever blogged..

I thought FDL was doing pro-Manning coverage. Am I mistaken?

re: #129 Obdicut

Yes.

Manning wasn't the cause, or the spark (Bouazizi was), but I do think that the cables added fuel to the fire.

I've always thought of "whistle-blowing" as exposing a particular evil thing or practice. Not as a massive theft and release of diplomatic documents with no regard at all for whether or not there's anything actually newsworthy in them, in an irresponsible way that puts innocent people at risk.

You don't have to be a right wing nut to think there's something wrong with the latter.

re: #124 HoosierHoops

When I completed my final Top Secret Clearance for the Navy I stood before 2 FBI agents, raised my right hand and swore to my country I would defend America's secrets..Against both domestic and Foreign enemies..
If you break your oath against my country? I could care less what happens to you..go to prison forever? oh well..

Yep. Personally I was thinking 8 maybe 10 years. I know others will say life such as yourself. That of course will be decided by others. Now. Had Manning just limited his leak to the hotly contested air assault video that would have been a different story. What he could have done instead was found away to get booted out of the Army and then release the video to the American press and not Wikileaks.

re: #132 BishopX

Yes.

Manning wasn't the cause, or the spark (Bouazizi was), but I do think that the cables added fuel to the fire.

Were they being discussed in the Tunisian blogosphere? Twittersphere? Facebook?

re: #130 b_sharp

Knowing about corruption and being angry enough for action aren't equivalent, they're two necessary parts to action.

Also, believing that something never should have been kept secret to begin with doesn't mean one should arrogate themselves into the position of betraying the trust placed in them by their democratically elected government. Recognizing that the genie can't be put back in the bottle and is relevant to the public discourse doesn't mean I condone the actions of the people who released it improperly.

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I thought FDL was doing pro-Manning coverage. Am I mistaken?

I hear Jane is really pro-Manning..I haven't been back there for about 3 years so I'm not sure..
I still like her...

re: #134 Gus 802

Hear, hear!

Qu'est-ce qui se passe, honcos?

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

Qu'est-ce qui se passe, honcos?

Oh, you speak Freedom?

re: #130 b_sharp

Knowing about corruption and being angry enough for action aren't equivalent, they're two necessary parts to action.

But why do you think the cables had any effect? Have you heard any Tunisian say that?

Did you read the Christian Science Monitor article linked above?

But a cable written by a US diplomat and released by WikiLeaks that contained no revelations for either Tunisians or people already interested in the country, is a highly unlikely vector of revolution. Ms. Dickinson writes that: "Of course, Tunisians didn't need anyone to tell them this. But the details noted in the cables -- for example, the fact that the first lady may have made massive profits off a private school -- stirred things up." Perhaps. But Leila Ben Ali, the president's wife, has been a hated figure in Tunisia for years, and she was well-known for taking the presidential jet to France for extravagant shopping trips.

Ben Wedeman, probably the best TV reporter employed by an American channel (he works for CNN) when it comes to the Arab world, is in Tunis and had this to say about Ben Ali's stunning fall yesterday, the WikiLeaks theory, and the public fury that amounted to the first succesful Arab revolt in a long time: "No one I spoke to in Tunis today mentioned twitter, facebook or wikileaks. It's all about unemployment, corruption, oppression."

re: #132 BishopX

Yes.

Manning wasn't the cause, or the spark (Bouazizi was), but I do think that the cables added fuel to the fire.

But why do you believe it? What actual concrete reason do you have to believe it?

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

Qu'est-ce qui se passe, honcos?

Ghehm jsu yetts, maggaar!

(oh ,, I thought you just typed random letters so I thought I'd do the same!!)
/

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

Oh, you speak Freedom?

With mayonnaise, no less. It's a wonder my citizenship hasn't been revoked yet...

re: #27 Idle Drifter

On a side note AA is unconstitutional. People would be better served going to the Betty Ford Clinic.

Say what? Care to elaborate on that?

re: #144 Aceofwhat?

With mayonnaise, no less. It's a wonder my citizenship hasn't been revoked yet...

Filthy Freedomite!

//

Tunisia, Wikileaks, etc., isn't going to help Manning.

re: #97 b_sharp

OK, what is the difference between a whistleblower and Manning? Is it the size of the release, the intent behind it, or the potential consequences?

His sexual orientation is irrelevant.

While I agree that some info that was released needed to be known, but much of it didn't necessarily need to be; Manning and Assange made themselves the supreme arbiters of American foreign policy, with few or no checks on their own releasing of information. To me, it was all about their egos (especially Assange); Assange found a useful idiot in Manning to feed him classified info, stroked his ego for it, then left him high and dry in the end to face a certain court-martial. Assange then was able to stick it in the eye of the US government, knowing he himself would face few legal entanglements for those releases, being an Australian citizen.

As far as Manning's sexual orientation, I agree that it should be irrelevant to the charges he faces, but someone brought the matter up for a hearing. Is it the Army piling on (which would be odd, with the repeal of DADT) or is Manning's defense trying to build some sort of diminished mental capacity defense by combining this with other claims (which is odd as well)?

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

Also, believing that something never should have been kept secret to begin with doesn't mean one should arrogate themselves into the position of betraying the trust placed in them by their democratically elected government. Recognizing that the genie can't be put back in the bottle and is relevant to the public discourse doesn't mean I condone the actions of the people who released it improperly.

Laywers run into this all the time. Not just things they're not allowed to tell the jury, but gag orders, things they're not allowed to tell witnesses, or things they hear from their clients that other people would really, really be better off knowing.

Any lawyer who breaches client confidentiality, or goes against a gag order from a judge, better be doing it for an amazingly good reason or he's simply trashing the integrity of the court.

Who's defending Manning anyhow? Case like this tends to attract high profile attorneys.

re: #135 Sergey Romanov

This is piece is pretty close to my thoughts on the matter.

Tunisia's revolution isn't a product of Twitter or WikiLeaks. But they do help

Again, Tunisia is instructive. Talk of a "WikiLeaks revolution" is as absurd as that of a "Twitter revolution", but WikiLeaks revelations about what the US knew of the Ben Ali regime's rampant corruption did contribute something to the pot of misery boiling over. There was even a special website to disseminate and discuss the Tunisia-related US cables (tunileaks.org). Obviously, Tunisians did not need WikiLeaks to tell them that their presidential family was a goon-protected self-enrichment cartel; but having detailed chapter and verse, with the authority of the US state department, and seeing how much the publicly regime-friendly American superpower privately disliked it, and knowing that other Tunisians must know that too, since the American reports were there online for all to see – all this surely had an impact.

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Who's defending Manning anyhow? Case like this tends to attract high profile attorneys.

David E. Coombs

re: #108 Obdicut

I'd say it was the high unemployment, crushing poverty, years of corruption, police brutality, the government's heavy-handed attempts to quell dissent during the food crisis, and most of all, the self-immolation of Mohamed Bouazizi.

Why do you credit the release of the information? Do you honestly think people in Tunisa fired up the internet and went "Holy smokes, our government is corrupt! We never knew!"

Not at all, but sometimes there has to be a trigger to initiate action. I don't believe the leaked info was any news to the people, but I do think it slapped them in the face hard enough to trigger action now rather than later.

I have some questions for you. You say the people of Tunisia knew about the corruption before the leaks, and I accept that, it makes sense. The questions are ; how long have the people known, and why did they not rise up before the leaks?

re: #152 Gus 802

David E. Coombs

Thanks. Interesting.

re: #151 BishopX

And again, that article just makes the bare assertion that the cables must have had an effect.

Gives no actual rationale for why this must be so. Cites no Tunisians who think that they had an effect.

Self-confessed computer hacker Adrian Lamo told the world's media how Pte Manning had confessed to the data theft during conversations they had on the internet.

"Listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga's Telephone while exfiltrating possibly the largest data spillage in American history," Pte Manning wrote, according to a transcript of their messages published on Wired's website.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Heh. International shit storm caused by a gay man lip-synching to Lady Gaga...

re: #153 b_sharp

Not at all, but sometimes there has to be a trigger to initiate action. I don't believe the leaked info was any news to the people, but I do think it slapped them in the face hard enough to trigger action now rather than later.

But again, why do you think this? I understand you think this. I'm asking you why you think so, not if you think so.

I have some questions for you. You say the people of Tunisia knew about the corruption before the leaks, and I accept that, it makes sense. The questions are ; how long have the people known, and why did they not rise up before the leaks?

They've known for decades. And the spiraling food prices were one of the biggest problems, but really, if you're looking for a flashpoint, it was Mohamed Bouazizi and his personal story of victimization from corruption that provided the spark.

re: #153 b_sharp

I have some questions for you. You say the people of Tunisia knew about the corruption before the leaks, and I accept that, it makes sense. The questions are ; how long have the people known, and why did they not rise up before the leaks?

I certainly don't know the answer, not having dug too deeply into the question...but if I were to dig, it would be in the vicinity of actual Tunisians explaining why now and not before.

As opposed to non-Tunisians pretending that they can read between the lines.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

For those who were complaining that support for Bradley Manning Wasn't on the recommended list at Dkos...
A Man in Tunisia, a Movement on Wall Street, and the Soldier Who Ignited the Fuse
byMichael Moore

On the recommended list. Tip Jar: (124+ / 0-)

Shocka!

re: #155 Obdicut

And the CS monitor piece cites no Tunisians who say it didn't have an effect. I think a full accounting of this kind of thing, who knew what when and which information influenced them, would take be an excellent dissertation. Everyone is messing around in the dark here.

On that note, dinner time. BBl.

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

Red between the lions

Image: 0372-0380.jpg

re: #6 dragonfire1981

Anyone think Family Values would be a great name for a rap group or metal band?

Good name for an "Addams Family" movie.

re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good name for an Addams family movie.

You Rang!?!?!

re: #160 BishopX

And the CS monitor piece cites no Tunisians who say it didn't have an effect.

Why would they?

I think a full accounting of this kind of thing, who knew what when and which information influenced them, would take be an excellent dissertation. Everyone is messing around in the dark here.

Then you're going to back down from the claim that the cables had an effect? Because this is just a 'nobody knows' claim-- which I find pretty weak, when lots of the actual events are available to us. After years and years of oppression, food prices spiraled, the government was unable or unwilling to address the severe pain that was causing, and Mohamed Bouazizi's self-immolation after having been beaten and stolen from by the government served as a rallying cry for the oppressed people.

The cables weren't going to tell Tunisians anything of import they didn't already know. They may not have known how many animals were in her zoo, but they knew that she flew to Paris for lavish shopping trips; they knew how well their rulers lived, and how badly they did.

re: #161 sattv4u2

Red between the lions

Image: 0372-0380.jpg

Read between the loins

man, I'm so glad I don't have the need to argue with my friends about Ron Paul anymore

Also, if Manning deserves kudos for starting the Arab Spring, if in all the countries with the revolutions hardline Islamists come to power and make life shit for everyone, should Manning be hanged? ///

(Just illustrating the irrelevance of intent fallacy.)

re: #165 Aceofwhat?

The ideal Ancient Greek body included a small penis.

Makes sense, when you think about it.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

HO NOES IT IS TEH DAILEY KOS BLOGWAR JUST LIKE 9/11 IRAK WAR RITE???

MARKOZ MOOLITSAS IS TEH ANTI AMERICAN LEFTOLIBERAL

SAY HI TO IRON FISTS FOR MEE

re: #168 Obdicut

The ideal Ancient Greek body included a small penis.

Makes sense, when you think about it.

Why would you say that?

re: #170 harald

Why would you say that?

It's pretty well-established from a few sources, mostly Athenian and Thracian but they don't relate it as though it were anything special about their city-states vs. the rest of the Hellenic culture.

Edit: And from sculpture, of course, though what's preferred in artistic representation doesn't always map to actual preference.

re: #166 WindUpBird

man, I'm so glad I don't have the need to argue with my friends about Ron Paul anymore

What happened with Ron Paul?

re: #172 HappyWarrior

What happened with Ron Paul?

He got caught drinking Hennessy and his hipster card was revoked.

re: #168 Obdicut

The ideal Ancient Greek body included a small penis.

Makes sense, when you think about it.

Maybe the sculptors chisel just slipped!!

re: #173 Obdicut

He got caught drinking Hennessy and his hipster card was revoked.

He should drink 40's.

re: #173 Obdicut

He got caught drinking Hennessy and his hipster card was revoked.

What do hipsters drink? Aside from Pabst.

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

What do hipsters drink? Aside from Pabst.

I don't actually know. I just figured Hennessy wasn't it, since it's so mainstream and frat-rap-culture.

re: #113 Gus 802

The idea that Manning and Wikileaks was a catalyst for the Egyptian and Tunisian revolutions kind of remind kind of reminds me of those Hollywood movies set in Africa in which the protagonist that saves the "native peoples" is always some white guy from the United Kingdom or America.

Well, I'd have to say the connection is your mind, not in reality.

There was obviously a trigger to the Tunisian uprising and it may have been information released on the Internet, and the information could have come from anywhere, and it would be the information not the source that matters, or it could be the self immolation of a street vendor provided the spark, or it could have been both or neither.

Correlation is not causation, but the correlation has to be examined.

I always look to a complex explanation for events like this which is why my original comment in answering Obdi used the word 'may'. I don't believe any single event can be said to have caused the uprising.

re: #168 Obdicut

The ideal Ancient Greek body included a small penis.

Makes sense, when you think about it.

Gets drafty in those sculptors' huts...

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

They may be on to kumiss by now.

re: #79 engineer dog

Iran 'Months Away From Nuclear Weapon' For Five Years Now, Sets New Record

mullahs declare goal is to continue to be months away from a nuclear weapon for at least 15 years

They're waiting for their flying cars to arrive. The ones powered by fusion.

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

What do hipsters drink? Aside from Pabst.

I dunno,, but I bet it's in a hip flask

Image: filson-flask.jpg

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

What do hipsters drink? Aside from Pabst.

Absinthe?

re: #169 WindUpBird

HO NOES IT IS TEH DAILEY KOS BLOGWAR JUST LIKE 9/11 IRAK WAR RITE???

MARKOZ MOOLITSAS IS TEH ANTI AMERICAN LEFTOLIBERAL

SAY HI TO IRON FISTS FOR MEE

I don't get it. Are you annoyed because #51 is false or true?

re: #118 Killgore Trout

That's another point I wanted to bring up. I think it's very insulting and condescending to credit Wikileaks and Manning for the Arab Spring.

Who did that?
As far as I know, nobody from Wikileaks, nor Manning took part in the uprising.

re: #183 Alouette

Absinthe?

No,, I was present!

re: #184 Aceofwhat?

I don't get it. Are you annoyed because #51 is false or true?

Annoyed because it was Kilgore

Shrug always thought PBR was the Hipster drink. Fat Tire is growing popular so no can go with the hipsters there.

re: #171 Obdicut

It's pretty well-established from a few sources, mostly Athenian and Thracian but they don't relate it as though it were anything special about their city-states vs. the rest of the Hellenic culture.

Edit: And from sculpture, of course, though what's preferred in artistic representation doesn't always map to actual preference.

So you're saying that it makes sense that the ideal Ancient Greek body included a small penis because that was the æstetically preferred Athenian and Thracian representation even though they did not relate it as though it were anything special about their city-states vs. the rest of the Hellenic culture?

Got it!

re: #184 Aceofwhat?

I don't get it. Are you annoyed because #51 is false or true?

Killgore's assertion didn't match reality, so he changed his assertion.

Why, I have no goddamn clue. It's not like it's hard to look back one thread and see what he actually said.

re: #188 HappyWarrior

Shrug always thought PBR was the Hipster drink. Fat Tire is growing popular so no can go with the hipsters there.

Are there hipsters' hipsters, who don't drink what's popular even with hipsters?

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

Hamms, Schlitz

re: #189 harald

So you're saying that it makes sense that the ideal Ancient Greek body included a small penis because that was the æstetically preferred Athenian and Thracian representation even though they did not relate it as though it were anything special about their city-states vs. the rest of the Hellenic culture?

Got it!

Oh oh! You meant actually why!

Sorry-- because they had a highly nudist culture, and while we in our 'naked just for sex' culture think of bigger genitalia as being better, if you're jogging, wrestling, and orating while naked, having a big flappy tonker actually looks pretty silly.

Just read some Egypt coverage.

Holy hell.

Where else would there be an erudite conversation about statuary penis size on ancient art on one hand and what hipsters are drinking at the same time on another?

re: #190 Obdicut

Killgore's assertion didn't match reality, so he changed his assertion.

Why, I have no goddamn clue. It's not like it's hard to look back one thread and see what he actually said.

Oh. Ok.

re: #193 Obdicut

Oh oh! You meant actually why!

Sorry-- because they had a highly nudist culture, and while we in our 'naked just for sex' culture think of bigger genitalia as being better, if you're jogging, wrestling, and orating while naked, having a big flappy tonker actually looks pretty silly.

Unless you Tweet it!!

oh yes I did !!!

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

Are there hipsters' hipsters, who don't drink what's popular even with hipsters?

I don't know. That would be a super hipster. A terror that Adams-Morgan has yet to see. Me? I'm no hipster.

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just read some Egypt coverage.

Holy hell.

Yeah ,, I've been trying to find the photo of the young woman they roughed up,,, I have it as part of many more pictures, but not solo

re: #193 Obdicut

It's swell to have a stiffy,
It's divine to own a dick.
From the tiniest little tadger,
To the world's biggest prick.

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

yes. there is a such a beast

re: #193 Obdicut

Oh oh! You meant actually why!

Sorry-- because they had a highly nudist culture, and while we in our 'naked just for sex' culture think of bigger genitalia as being better, if you're jogging, wrestling, and orating while naked, having a big flappy tonker actually looks pretty silly.

Orating while naked with a big flappy tonker would look silly, I agree, but it does sound like a fun idea for the primaries.

re: #129 Obdicut

Really? What's the big difference?

You do know about Mohamed Bouazizi, right?

I just read the Wikipedia article about him. After reading that I would have to say I'm convinced it was his sacrifice that triggered the Tunisian uprising and the fact his act was repeated in other countries it was also his sacrifice that triggered the other Arab Spring actions.

I have to withdraw any doubt about Manning's contribution, there wasn't any.

re: #185 b_sharp

Read the Michael Moore diary at Dkos.

Main headline at Drudge is funny.

re: #201 SpaceJesus

yes. there is a such a beast

Any online presence that you know of?

re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I find this bit constantly funny:

[Link: slog.thestranger.com...]

Eighty-five percent of women said they were satisfied with their partner’s penis size, but only 55 percent of men were satisfied.

re: #203 b_sharp

I just read the Wikipedia article about him. After reading that I would have to say I'm convinced it was his sacrifice that triggered the Tunisian uprising and the fact his act was repeated in other countries it was also his sacrifice that triggered the other Arab Spring actions.

I have to withdraw any doubt about Manning's contribution, there wasn't any.

Once again, you win the "Actually changes his opinion when shown facts and reasons" award.

The most rarely awarded prize on the interwebs.

Kudos.

re: #207 Obdicut

I find this bit constantly funny:

[Link: slog.thestranger.com...]

55% of men were satisfied with their partner's penis size? OK.

re: #193 Obdicut

Oh oh! You meant actually why!

Sorry-- because they had a highly nudist culture, and while we in our 'naked just for sex' culture think of bigger genitalia as being better, if you're jogging, wrestling, and orating while naked, having a big flappy tonker actually looks pretty silly.

Although wouldn't a big tonker be a bonus for a wrestler? Your opponent is either uncomfortably put off or uncomfortably put on...

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

i only know one, and he refuses to even have a facebook

re: #141 Obdicut

But why do you think the cables had any effect? Have you heard any Tunisian say that?

Did you read the Christian Science Monitor article linked above?

I don't know they had any effect, although now I'm pretty sure they didn't. That's why I said 'may' not 'did'. I will always use tentative language if I think I'm short of information.

re: #211 SpaceJesus

i only know one, and he refuses to even have a facebook

Does he at least breathe? And poop?

re: #207 Obdicut

I find this bit constantly funny:

[Link: slog.thestranger.com...]

Well, we could put a positive spin on it instead:

"65 percent of men are happy with their partners penis size!"

There.

re: #210 Aceofwhat?

Although wouldn't a big tonker be a bonus for a wrestler? Your opponent is either uncomfortably put off or uncomfortably put on...

It's Ancient Greece; no uncomfortableness to it.

re: #208 Obdicut

Once again, you win the "Actually changes his opinion when shown facts and reasons" award.

The most rarely awarded prize on the interwebs.

Kudos.

B Sharp is a good dude.

it is almost certainly not tebow time today

HuffPo moonbats are showing mucho love for Manning...

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dfvboulder

There's an elephant in the room, and we're arguing about the furniture.

Bradley Manning has been TORTURED, by being held in solitary confinemen­t for 19 months under appalling conditions­. In any sane proceeding­, that would be addressed completely -- BEFORE anything else.

...

IMissAmerica
Hippies were right about corp. facism, pot, & war

Manning should be hailed as a national hero. What he did was incredibly courageous­.

...

American Subversive
Don't punish profit creators: workers & consumers.

FREE MANNING!

...

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Neil Pharr

He is a war hero just like those who tried to stop the Viet Nam disaster, Those martial minded folks who want to punish him are the real cowards and non-patrio­ts.

...

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gurukalehuru
cwtc7

He's a hero in my book. He's a hero to those who believe in free speech. He's a hero to those who oppose oppressive government­. He's a hero to those who believe in transparen­cy. He's a hero.

...

On and on and on with the 'He's my hero' posts. Silly moonbats...LOL.

re: #213 Sergey Romanov

yes. it's funny you should bring up pooping tho. this guy only drinks by taking dissolving capsules, then filling them with vodka and inserting them into his rectum at house shows.

re: #157 Obdicut

But again, why do you think this? I understand you think this. I'm asking you why you think so, not if you think so.

They've known for decades. And the spiraling food prices were one of the biggest problems, but really, if you're looking for a flashpoint, it was Mohamed Bouazizi and his personal story of victimization from corruption that provided the spark.

My understanding has been corrected.

re: #218 NJDhockeyfan

Sorry, no downdings for that one.

re: #215 Obdicut

It's Ancient Greece; no uncomfortableness to it.

I think you're right. As a skinny wrestler in jr high, i was never happier to be "average". Those unitards don't hide much...

re: #207 Obdicut

Like a baby's arm with an apple in his fist. That's all I'm sayin'.

From the comments... heh...

re: #221 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, no downdings for that one.

I'm sure I will get a few.

re: #187 sattv4u2

Annoyed because it was Kilgore

...and they're worried that the precious OWS radicals are hurting their glorious cause. It's easier to silence critics and solve the problem.

re: #225 Killgore Trout

...and they're worried that the precious OWS radicals are hurting their glorious cause. It's easier to silence critics and solve the problem.

Who are 'they'?

re: #218 NJDhockeyfan

HuffPo moonbats are showing mucho love for Manning...

On and on and on with the 'He's my hero' posts. Silly moonbats...LOL.

Outrageous! Cherry picked comments! Smear artist! Breitarian editing! Wingnut Lies!
/

re: #226 Obdicut

Who are 'they'?

What is who?

And the beat goes on
Pa pa pa pa pam

Endless wordgames!

re: #214 harald

Shoot, I got the percentage wrong, and Sergey beat me to it. Arrgh.

re: #231 harald

Shoot, I got the percentage wrong, and Sergey beat me to it. Arrgh.

Make sure my internet is in the mail by tomorrow.//

Oh, 'them'. 'they' suck. In fact 'they' are everything that's wrong with the world.

re: #232 Sergey Romanov

I hate you.

Just checked Firedoglake. They're shilling for Manning too. Can anyone point to a lefty site denouncing Manning?

re: #233 Obdicut

Oh, 'them'. 'they' suck. In fact 'they' are everything that's wrong with the world.

That's what they say...

re: #226 Obdicut

Who are 'they'?

them!

re: #234 harald

I hate you.

No. Hate them!

re: #207 Obdicut

I find this bit constantly funny:

[Link: slog.thestranger.com...]

So if less than 2.7" defines a micropenis, what defines a minipenis?

re: #239 b_sharp

Any one smaller than mine.
/

re: #227 Killgore Trout

Outrageous! Cherry picked comments! Smear artist! Breitarian editing! Wingnut Lies!
/

The Tea Party is posting on HuffPo to make them look bad!
//

re: #216 Aceofwhat?

B Sharp is a good dude.

Huh? What happened?

re: #228 Killgore Trout

What is who?

We are the What!

((nahh ,,, doesn't have the panache needed)))

People are still entitled to defend Bradley Manning in this manner. I might not agree with them but I still defend their right to free speech in defending him as they see fit. I won't join them.

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Just checked Firedoglake. They're shilling for Manning too. Can anyone point to a lefty site denouncing Manning?

I think you're exerting your efforts in the wrong place. Not much love for the dude here.

re: #238 Sergey Romanov

No. Hate them!

Ok.

re: #219 SpaceJesus

yes. it's funny you should bring up pooping tho. this guy only drinks by taking dissolving capsules, then filling them with vodka and inserting them into his rectum at house shows.

What?

re: #243 b_sharp

Huh? What happened?

Take off, eh. I wasn't talking to you/

re: #248 b_sharp

What?

You couldn't just let it pass, could you!

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Just checked Firedoglake. They're shilling for Manning too. Can anyone point to a lefty site denouncing Manning?

The left wing of LGF.

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Any one smaller than mine.
/

If I could find mine I'd measure it.

re: #217 SpaceJesus

it is almost certainly not tebow time today

Tebow will deliver us from the cultural rot that has consumed our once great (read:white) nation by the liberals. Through Him, our Christian nation will shine brightly returning homosexuals back to the closet; women back to back alleys; our marriages back to separate beds. Tebow is the savior. Only He can lead you to salvation, and keep our wicked souls from the flames of hell.

re: #249 Aceofwhat?

Take off, eh. I wasn't talking to you/

Dude, I ain't sending you any more prime BC shit, eh.

re: #246 BigPapa

I think you're exerting your efforts in the wrong place. Not much love for the dude here.

If you'll permit a weak analogy...there isn't any love for Bachmann here, even among folks who may consider themselves republican(ish). But it's still instructive to see how much support she receives and from whom on the right, even if there isn't anyone here who needs to be convinced that she's a few hammers short of a bag of hammers. Is this any different?

re: #239 b_sharp

So if less than 2.7" defines a micropenis, what defines a minipenis?

T.M.I.

Eew.

I can't think of one person in the GOP race I'd want to see in that state.

Make that the whole stupid GOP, feh.

re: #202 harald

Orating while naked with a big flappy tonker would look silly, I agree, but it does sound like a fun idea for the primaries.