Ron Paul Takes the Lead in Iowa

Swapping one extremist for an even more deranged extremist
Politics • Views: 18,366

In the ever-changing GOP clown car of far right candidates, the leader in Iowa polling is now Crazy Uncle Ron Paul.

Newt Gingrich’s campaign is rapidly imploding, and Ron Paul has now taken the lead in Iowa.  He’s at 23% to 20% for Mitt Romney, 14% for Gingrich, 10% each for Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, and Rick Perry, 4% for Jon Huntsman, and 2% for Gary Johnson.

Gingrich has now seen a big drop in his Iowa standing two weeks in a row.  His share of the vote has gone from 27% to 22% to 14%.  And there’s been a large drop in his personal favorability numbers as well from +31 (62/31) to +12 (52/40) to now -1 (46/47). Negative ads over the last few weeks have really chipped away at Gingrich’s image as being a strong conservative- now only 36% of voters believe that he has ‘strong principles,’ while 43% think he does not.

It would be absolutely fitting if the GOP nominates Ron Paul; an extreme libertarian and unreconstructed racist with neo-Confederate connections who wants to roll back all the social progress of the last 100 years. This is where the Republican Party has been heading for the last three years. It’s the era of Ron Paul.

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145 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 9:54:35am

As someone who hopes for Obama's second term, I absolutely hope Paul wins the primary, because he has no chance whatsoever in the general. Dreams, dreams...

2 Meitantei  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 9:55:06am

I'm going to ascribe this to some massive 4chan project, that's the only explanation.

3 Obdicut  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 9:57:04am

It's been really funny to see the GOP shrug its shoulders and embrace Paulian economics wholeheartedly. Like, "Sure, everyone acknowledged this was bullshit eight years ago, but hey, that was eight years ago."

4 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 9:59:55am

This bodes not well for my party. Doesn't Iowa know who he is?

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:00:47am

re: #4 EdDantes

This bodes not well for my party. Doesn't Iowa know who he is?

He's not Romney. Isn't that enough?

6 nines09  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:01:13am

I was hoping for Newt Gingrich, Forever Disgraced Former Speaker of The House, to roll on, but Luap Nor getting traction is like hitting the lottery. I think we are witnessing the total implosion of the GOP/TP.
OH BOY

7 erik_t  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:01:34am

Can I get a home equity lone to pay for all of the popcorn I'm about to go buy?

8 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:02:11am

Certain friends of mine are Ron Paul fanatics and border on being just plain cultists. In a way I hope he wins only to be crushed in the general.

9 S'latch  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:02:20am

He's just the next "Not Mitt Romney."

10 erik_t  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:02:56am

re: #9 Lawrence Schmerel

He sure is, but sometime soon one of these polls is going to count, and there won't be a Next Not Mitt Romney.

11 allegro  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:04:07am

re: #6 nines09

I was hoping for Newt Gingrich, Forever Disgraced Former Speaker of The House, to roll on, but Luap Nor getting traction is like hitting the lottery. I think we are witnessing the total implosion of the GOP/TP.
OH BOY

Upding for Flounder - couldn't be a more fitting schadenfreude expression under the circumstances.

12 S'latch  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:04:33am

re: #10 erik_t

Mitt Romney's campaign is working on that. I hear they have a new ad called "I'm not Mitt Romney."

13 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:08:00am

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

14 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:08:17am

re: #5 EmmmieG

He's not Romney. Isn't that enough?

No. Sideshow Bob is not Romney either but you wouldn't want him as president.

15 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:08:27am

re: #12 Lawrence Schmerel

Mitt Romney's campaign is working on that. I hear they have a new ad called "I'm not Mitt Romney."

Is that the one where they compare clips of Romney 2002 to Romney 2011; and Romney Jan 2011 to Romney Nov 2011. And end with referring to him as "A Man for All Seasons Voters"?
//

16 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:08:35am

GOP voters deserve exactly what they are getting with things like this. They're the ones who allowed it, so now let them go pull the lever for it.

/Scadenfreude

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:08:38am

The GOP has been trying to ignore him up to this point. Now they can not any longer.

18 nines09  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:09:25am

re: #11 allegro

Upding for Flounder - couldn't be a more fitting schadenfreude expression under the circumstances.

I'm just amazed at the amount of crazy insane right now. I actually would not be surprised to see Rick "The Dolt" Santorum suddenly look good to them.

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:12:31am

re: #13 Charles

> Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

Kinda. Lefties can be stupid like that.

20 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:12:40am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

But he's antiwar and isn't Obama!!! /

21 nines09  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:12:41am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

I think you nailed it.

22 Meitantei  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:13:19am

re: #13 Charles

From my leftist friends, it's a combination of that and because they've decided that Obama's just another Bush on civil rights. You should know that a lot of leftist nutjobs are still running like chickens over that NDAA, when that's really just a giant dick waving contest between the Congress and the Presidency.

I mean, it's obvious. Congress is having difficulty passing a freaking budget. If they're going to all of a sudden support some bill where over 90 members of the Senate support it, then there's probably something not that odd about it. Instead, my friends rant "CONSPIRACY ALL PARTIES ALL THE SAME OMG."

23 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:13:25am

Cold Iowa January evening. Who is more willing to brave the cold than a Paulbot?

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:13:44am

re: #13 Charles

Also note that Paul's "Audit the Fed" slogan was repeated by many at the far left, and was also "legitimized" by Grayson and at OWS.

25 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:14:09am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

I think that's a big part of it, yes. That and he sounds so different to them than most of the right.

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

That would require effort.

26 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:14:55am

As I recently said to Obdicut, yes, there are indeed lwnj confederates.

re: #19 Sergey Romanov

> Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

Kinda. Lefties can be stupid like that.

27 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:16:13am

They're running out of people to not be Romney.

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:16:25am

re: #26 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

As I recently said to Obdicut, yes, there are indeed lwnj confederates.

Hm. Not sure I would agree with the terminology. In what way these lwnjs are confederates?

29 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:17:23am

re: #13 Charles

I am beginning to think it is the drug legalization position and the anti-war position. I am baffled when I see sensible people shilling for this insane asshat.

30 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:17:27am

re: #22 Meitantei

Well, I'll be honest and say that I haven't been entirely thrilled with everything Obama has done on some civil rights angles, although I also acknowledge that Congress has tied his hands on many things.

That being said, even if there are things Paul says that I agree with, which really isn't hard with the range of positions he takes, there's no way in hell I want him anywhere near the presidency. Paul is a broken clock and somehow I think he's leaking something radioactive.

31 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:18:02am

Gallup is still showing Newt ahead with Ron Paul at 3rd. They're showing Newt, Romney and Paul with 26, 24, and 11 percentage points respectively. The PPP poll shows Paul, Romney and and Newt at 23, 20, and 14 percentage points respectively. Paul and Newt are switched in position between the two polls.

And yes I know quite a few people on the left that are confusingly supportive of Ron Paul. Essentially this is for some the reasons already stated above: conspiracy nuts; NDAA; the anti-war/military rhetoric; marijuana stance; etc. I frequently try to explain Paul's other positions but that usually falls on deaf ears.

It's unfortunate but a lot of people on the left are still drawn towards 9/11 conspiracy theories. They still believe or are leaning towards the BS theories about building 7 or that the Pentagon was not hit by a 757 but a missile instead.

32 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:20:26am

Time to roll out the Ron Paul Stormfront photo-op.

33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:22:18am

Sounds like support for "different" while missing the additional adjective of "disastrously".

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:22:28am

re: #30 Simply Sarah

Not only that, but I'm sure that he would implement that part of his stuff that is supposedly progressive on the civil liberties issue in such a way that he would fuck everything up, and you would end up with an even worse civil liberties situation than before.

35 Meitantei  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:22:57am

re: #30 Simply Sarah

That's reasonable.

I would also suspect that many extreme leftists really wouldn't mind ending the Fed, since it's obviously a cabal of rich bankers who will dominate everything.

36 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:22:57am

re: #31 Gus 802

SuperThermite! When regular thermite just won't do.

37 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:23:35am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

Folks will put their ideological blinders on. They'll see only what they want to see, and not all the serious issues with Paul (or other candidates that they prefer). In Paul's case, his history of associations with racists, white supremacists, and just plain nutters is established - but no one seems to care, because he's Ron Paul.

38 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:24:17am

re: #32 Alouette

Time to roll out the Ron Paul Stormfront photo-op.

TBH, unless Paul knew who he was being photographed with, I don't hold it against him on its own.
His old newsletter is what settles it for me.

39 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:25:02am

By the way. I noticed that a lot of the same 9/11 conspiracy nuts still believe that John McCain caused the fire and explosion on the USS Forrestal in 1967. This is simply not true. The cause was an un-safed "due to an electrical power surge" on a rocket from an F-4 Phantom which is even visible in the onboard film from the Forrestal. Once again proving that even visible evidence does not penetrate bias and more importantly rather thick and ignorant skulls.

40 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:25:30am

re: #34 Sergey Romanov

Not only that, but I'm sure that he would implement that part of his stuff that is supposedly progressive on the civil liberties issue in such a way that he would fuck everything up, and you would end up with an even worse civil liberties situation than before.

Well, of course. He would likely try to get rid of all civil rights protections for groups while he was at it, since he hates those.

41 Meitantei  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:26:28am

re: #38 Sergey Romanov


Like I've said, I supported him big-time in 2008, and probably did more for him than most of his supporters.

The newsletter as the realization when I met his supporters irl at the 2008 GOP Convention of "Holy shit, you guys are fucking crazy!" was the big turning point for me.

42 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:26:43am

Fixed that. I had forgotten that it was an electrical power surge. I saw the US Navy investigation video several months back.

43 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:28:06am

re: #38 Sergey Romanov

TBH, unless Paul knew who he was being photographed with, I don't hold it against him on its own.

Taking pictures with supporters is what politicians do. I don't hold it against any politician of any party who has their picture taken with someone they don't know.

44 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:29:33am

re: #43 EdDantes

TBH, unless Paul knew who he was being photographed with, I don't hold it against him on its own.

Taking pictures with supporters is what politicians do. I don't hold it against any politician of any party who has their picture taken with someone they don't know.

He accepted donations from Don Black which he refused to return even after being told it was from Stormfront.

45 Four More Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:29:57am

I'm not Romney. I can haz republikan nom?

46 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:29:59am

Was there a recently blocked person here who had the URL godkincountry.com in their profile? Asking because I just got twitter-followed by someone linking to that site, and using it as their username...

47 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:30:03am

re: #39 Gus 802

I've seen the same footage. It is obvious what happened and McCain nearly died in that accident.

48 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:30:20am

re: #43 EdDantes

TBH, unless Paul knew who he was being photographed with, I don't hold it against him on its own.

Taking pictures with supporters is what politicians do. I don't hold it against any politician of any party who has their picture taken with someone they don't know.

For a simple photo op at a general appearance that makes sense. If the photo came from a speaking event where he addressed a particular group or attended something sponsored by said group then the photo should be considered a bit more damning.

49 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:31:43am

re: #48 oaktree

Correct. Context is everything.

50 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:32:20am

re: #47 EdDantes

I've seen the same footage. It is obvious what happened and McCain nearly died in that accident.

Pretty much. He was on the opposite side or what could be called the "target." I swear whenever I hear people lie about this incident I feel like opening up a can of... Anyway. One thing is to not like McCain but the way these people lie through their teeth. Much like Ron Paul it comes from the far left and the far right since they both loath John McCain.

51 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:33:15am

re: #43 EdDantes

TBH, unless Paul knew who he was being photographed with, I don't hold it against him on its own.

Taking pictures with supporters is what politicians do. I don't hold it against any politician of any party who has their picture taken with someone they don't know.

Yes, but ... the Neanderthals at Stormfront are huge supporters of Ron Paul, and in the last election they contributed money to his campaign. When confronted about it, Ron Paul refused to return the money or denounce them.

It's not a coincidence that he posed for a picture with the leaders of Stormfront. He may or may not have known who they were, but it's a fact that neo-Nazis are big supporters of Ron Paul because they recognize a fellow traveler -- and that's why Don Black and his son sought out a photo with Paul.

52 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:34:36am

re: #39 Gus 802

Not to mention that there is no evidence of funny business in the case of 9/11. Certainly, the FBI and CIA were incompetant/having a pissing contest, but that's it.

In any case, theis little thing from earlier scared the crap out of me

In May 2011, Dr Christian Simensen of SINTEF, disagreeing with the official findings on the collapse,[93] published a paper in Aluminium International today suggesting aluminum from the planes (30 tons for each plane) was heated enough to liquify. Spilling to the floors below, the liquefied aluminum came in contact with water from the fire sprinklers, producing explosive hydrogen

There was an experiment some years ago. its results on the reaction of water and molten aluminum are pretty damning:

The aluminium industry has reported more than 250 aluminium-water explosions since 1980. Alcoa Aluminium carried out an experiment under controlled conditions, in which 20 kilos of aluminium smelt were allowed to react with 20 kilos of water, to which some rust was added. The explosion destroyed the entire laboratory and left a crater 30 metres in diameter.

However, this scenario could not have happened on 9/11. The amount of aluminum and water much greater. If this had happened, there would have been pieces of the World Trade Center in Hoboken.

If that had happened.....there are no words.

53 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:34:50am

Tweeted that old thread...

@Gus_802 Gus
Ron Paul's Photo-Op with Stormfront (2007) [Link: lgf.bz...] #LGF #ronpaul #gop #iowa #p2 #p21 #tlot #ndaa

Here come the Paulbots!

54 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:37:00am

re: #51 Charles

True, the overwhelming support by SF is illustrative. Photo? Not so much. But the fact that he likes the Nazi money is.

55 Lidane  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:38:32am

My Paulbot friends on FB are practically bouncing with glee at this news.

In a sick way, I hope that Luap Nor gets the nomination. It will be a Mondale-style national beating for the GOP, which they desperately need. That's pretty much what it's going to take for the party leadership to finally stop pandering to the religious fanatics and far-right nutjobs.

56 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:39:50am

By the way -- I've had an exchange of emails with "The Shadow Do," and as a result I've unblocked his account.

57 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:40:20am

re: #52 ProLifeLiberal

Not to mention that there is no evidence of funny business in the case of 9/11. Certainly, the FBI and CIA were incompetant/having a pissing contest, but that's it.

In any case, theis little thing from earlier scared the crap out of me

There was an experiment some years ago. its results on the reaction of water and molten aluminum are pretty damning:

However, this scenario could not have happened on 9/11. The amount of aluminum and water much greater. If this had happened, there would have been pieces of the World Trade Center in Hoboken.

I can't imagine the mindset that would lead people to believe that the government would attempt to destroy the Pentagon with a missile. It's lunacy. And that's just the tip of the ice berg from these idiots. The funny part is how they also try to say it was from a A-3 Skywarrior involved in the Pentagon incident.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:40:32am

re: #55 Lidane

My Paulbot friends on FB are practically bouncing with glee at this news.

In a sick way, I hope that Luap Nor gets the nomination. It will be a Mondale-style national beating for the GOP, which they desperately need. That's pretty much what it's going to take for the party leadership to finally stop pandering to the religious fanatics and far-right nutjobs.

Oh, they fill find a way to blame the odd one out. "But Paul was not mainstream, like Sarah Barracuda! We need more Palin and Bachmann!".

59 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:40:43am

re: #52 ProLifeLiberal

Hope I didn't bother anyone with this.

To me, this is unleaded nightmare fuel.

60 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:41:31am

re: #57 Gus 802

I can't either.

I'm shocked no one has had a comment about the aluminium + water thing.

61 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:43:05am

Speaking of which. If Paul were the nominee, who in the world would he choose as a VP? The rest of the candidates seem to be loathing him (because of the foreign policy). Would they step on the throat of their publicly announced "principles" in order to win the VP slot?

62 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:43:57am

re: #51 Charles

I was unaware of the connection between stormfront and Paul and I am not surprised that he didn't denounce them. Stormfront does recognize their own.

63 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:45:26am

re: #57 Gus 802

I can't imagine the mindset that would lead people to believe that the government would attempt to destroy the Pentagon with a missile. It's lunacy. And that's just the tip of the ice berg from these idiots. The funny part is how they also try to say it was from a A-3 Skywarrior involved in the Pentagon incident.

One of the very earliest photos released of the attack on the Pentagon showed a big chunk of aircraft with the "AA" logo very prominently identifiable. This was way too soon for the "Men In Black" to plant an aircraft part and stage it for the media.

Of course if you try to find that photo now, you are overwhelmed with troof and denier shit.

64 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:45:58am

re: #62 EdDantes

I was unaware of the connection between stormfront and Paul and I am not surprised that he didn't denounce them. Stormfront does recognize their own.

...

Yeah but Ron Paul will legalize marijuana man!

Derp.

65 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:46:01am

re: #61 Sergey Romanov

Speaking of which. If Paul were the nominee, who in the world would he choose as a VP? The rest of the candidates seem to be loathing him (because of the foreign policy). Would they step on the throat of their publicly announced "principles" in order to win the VP slot?

Mitt Romney!

66 Lidane  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:46:38am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

Here in Austin there are plenty of idiot hippies and far left types who love Ron Paul. Why? Aside from the pro-weed and anti-war nonsense that Paul panders with, the idiot hippies and far left types are all Alex Jones fans who buy into the 9/11 conspiracy bullshit, along with all the shit about gold, the Bilderbergs, and FEMA having concentration camps just outside Killeen.

I've known plenty of otherwise reasonable people with Infowars and Ron Paul 2012 stickers on their cars. It's a really weird thing.

67 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:46:55am

re: #63 Alouette

One of the very earliest photos released of the attack on the Pentagon showed a big chunk of aircraft with the "AA" logo very prominently identifiable. This was way too soon for the "Men In Black" to plant an aircraft part and stage it for the media.

Of course if you try to find that photo now, you are overwhelmed with troof and denier shit.

Yeah, you can't convince they with the 1000 yard stare. Might as well have a conversation with a mop or a dust bunny.

68 BongCrodny  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:47:22am

re: #53 Gus 802

Tweeted that old thread...

@Gus_802 Gus
Ron Paul's Photo-Op with Stormfront (2007) [Link: lgf.bz...] #LGF #ronpaul #gop #iowa #p2 #p21 #tlot #ndaa

Here come the Paulbots!

That would make a great sitcom, and would fit right in after "The Big Bang Theory."

69 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:47:52am

re: #56 Charles

Speaking of blocked accounts, is this fundie-nut bigoted douchenozzle a remnant from the stalker blog? Something's familiar about the username...

70 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:48:57am

re: #68 BongCrodny

That would make a great sitcom, and would fit right in after "The Big Bang Theory."

I had this image in my head upon reading this:

71 BongCrodny  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:50:07am

re: #61 Sergey Romanov

Speaking of which. If Paul were the nominee, who in the world would he choose as a VP? The rest of the candidates seem to be loathing him (because of the foreign policy). Would they step on the throat of their publicly announced "principles" in order to win the VP slot?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Rand Paul.

72 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:50:25am

re: #52 ProLifeLiberal

Do you have a cite for ALCOA blowing up a lab testing the reactivity of molten aluminum?

I was aware that aluminum flake and powder are very sensitive since my father worked in an ALCOA plant that made flake (from powder). Said flake used in part for solid rocket boosters the Space Shuttles used.

As for some sort of aluminum reaction dropping the WTC Towers I would have my doubts.

73 BishopX  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:51:04am

re: #59 ProLifeLiberal

Didn't bother me.

One thing to keep in mind with the Aluminum hypothesis is that the whole plane doesn't have to liquify to order for there to be molten aluminum. Some aluminum almost certainly melted, if not from the heat of the fire than from the heat generated on impact. The question is how much and where it went. I feel like there is some room here for some fairly macabre computer modeling...

74 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:51:27am

re: #66 Lidane

Here in Austin there are plenty of idiot hippies and far left types who love Ron Paul. Why? Aside from the pro-weed and anti-war nonsense that Paul panders with, the idiot hippies and far left types are all Alex Jones fans who buy into the 9/11 conspiracy bullshit, along with all the shit about gold, the Bilderbergs, and FEMA having concentration camps just outside Killeen.

I've known plenty of otherwise reasonable people with Infowars and Ron Paul 2012 stickers on their cars. It's a really weird thing.

Also UFOs, Area 51, Illuminati, Rothschilds, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Masons, numerology, Above Top Secret, Center for Research on Globalization, Rense, Russia Today, etc.

75 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:51:38am

re: #72 oaktree

I got it from that interview I just read from the Norwegian researcher.

Translated of course.

76 Kragar  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:52:42am

So I asked if wife last week if she had taken care of the box we were mailing for Christmas, and she said she took care of it.

This morning she asked me when I was mailing it.

2 hours at the Post Office.

Then, I stopped at McDonalds on my way into work. I started to order lunch, when the girl said they weren't serving it for a couple minutes. So I take a step back and start looking for a place to sit while I wait. I literally put my butt in the chair and she says, "We're serving lunch now."

Someone will rue this day.

77 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:52:53am

re: #74 Gus 802

Also UFOs, Area 51, Illuminati, Rothschilds, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Masons, numerology, Above Top Secret, Center for Research on Globalization, Rense, Russia Today, etc.

Then some of these same people will turn around and laugh at Scientology and Mormons. Right, that makes sense given how "grounded" these crackpots are. //

78 Kragar  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:54:06am
79 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:56:19am

re: #72 oaktree

Do you have a cite for ALCOA blowing up a lab testing the reactivity of molten aluminum?

I was aware that aluminum flake and powder are very sensitive since my father worked in an ALCOA plant that made flake (from powder). Said flake used in part for solid rocket boosters the Space Shuttles used.

As for some sort of aluminum reaction dropping the WTC Towers I would have my doubts.

Well, it's also silly and unneeded. Planes hit towers. Impact damages structure some. Fires cause more damage and cause supports to heat and weaken (No need to melt). Eventually, they weaken enough to fail under the stress of holding everything up and the end result is a chain reaction leading to total structural failure. Pretty simple.

80 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:56:41am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

Dave's not here man.

81 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:58:11am

I wonder why the polls are so wildly different

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:58:17am

re: #6 nines09

I was hoping for Newt Gingrich, Forever Disgraced Former Speaker of The House, to roll on, but Luap Nor getting traction is like hitting the lottery. I think we are witnessing the total implosion of the GOP/TP.
OH BOY

I just keep thinking that eventually they'll run through everyone else, and they'll have to give it to Romney.

83 Lidane  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:58:32am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Tea Party Nation Wonders if Obama 'Staged' bin Laden Death, Gave Drone to Iran

No and no. Next stupid theory please.

I keep waiting for one of those nutbags to ask for OBL's long-form death certificate.

84 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:59:02am

re: #81 SpaceJesus

I wonder why the polls are so wildly different

PPP. Frankly, they're like the Rasmussen of the left.

85 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:59:45am

re: #75 ProLifeLiberal

I got it from that interview I just read from the Norwegian researcher.

Translated of course.

Thank you. I'll follow up on my own when I get some time and a non-blocked computer.

And there's a lot of leeway between what sounds like "let's dump 20kg of water directly on 20kg of molten (e.g. unoxidized surface) aluminum" and the WTC situation which would involve non-laboratory conditions with the aluminum scattered about, mixed with other objects, subjected to heat in different ways, etc. etc. And as such I wouldn't expect a colossal explosion sending stuff to Hoboken, a China-Syndrome like thermite meltdown through the WTC, but possibly a series of smaller explosions or reactions as pieces burned or reacted haphazardly.

I'm drawing this in part from my father describing being in the same room as an aluminum powder fire, and also the process from which aluminum powder is made into aluminum flake (at least in the early 80s). A process in which aluminum powder, mineral spirits, and oxygen are purposefully mixed in a large rotating drum full of metal balls.

86 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:59:52am

re: #79 Simply Sarah

Well, it's also silly and unneeded. Planes hit towers. Impact damages structure some. Fires cause more damage and cause supports to heat and weaken (No need to melt). Eventually, they weaken enough to fail under the stress of holding everything up and the end result is a chain reaction leading to total structural failure. Pretty simple.

Fire can't melt steel!

//I used Wingnut font because we don't have a Moonbat font.

87 BishopX  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 10:59:54am

re: #79 Simply Sarah

It's mostly a question of where the heat comes from. Did hydrogen from the aluminum water mixing contribute to the fire? or was it just aircraft fuel and office furniture burning.

88 only_me  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:01:19am

I am a sane, registered republican in Iowa. I am sometimes stunned with the direction the party is going here, even though it's been going on a long time. I am loathing to go to the caucus, because I have to sit and listen to others talk admiringly of the totally crazy candidates will make me want to vomit. My husband thinks I should jump ship, but I just keep hoping for a change. Maybe I'm not so sane after all.

89 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:02:29am

re: #63 Alouette

Available on snopes, and there's the video from the Pentagon parking lot showing the plane crashing.

Oh, and that was another example of a steel reinforced concrete building collapsing as a result of the plane attacks (and the WTC actually survived longer than the affected Pentagon structures did despite the catastrophic damage). From the time that the Pentagon was hit to the collapse was 30 minutes, and that was largely due to the reinforcement project underway prior to the attacks.

From the time that the WTC was hit, Tower 1 stayed erect for 102 minutes, while Tower 2 stayed erect for 56 minutes before collapsing. That they didn't collapse more quickly, or didn't topple over following the impacts, was a testament to their structure, which was still doomed as a result of construction and insulation choices made 30 years previously (use of lightweight decking, insulation that was blown off steel, allowing it to weaken due to ongoing exposure to intense heat).

90 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:02:32am

re: #87 BishopX

It's mostly a question of where the heat comes from. Did hydrogen from the aluminum water mixing contribute to the fire? or was it just aircraft fuel and office furniture burning.

The answer is so obvious.

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:02:56am

re: #13 Charles

Leftists who support Ron Paul need to lay off the crack. This guy is NOT your friend.

The support on the left for this extreme libertarian wingnut is utterly baffling to me. Is it just because he's anti-war and wants to legalize pot?

How about taking a look at everything else he advocates?

I recall when we got the update on the girl neo-Nazi singers from Prussian Blue here, and a number of people were all excited that they were into pot, and thought that meant they were fixed, despite the dumbass shit they were still saying.

There are people out there who will fall for any asshole who claims to believe in legalizing pot, the same way there are people who will fall for any asshole who claims to believe in Jesus.

The former is even stupider than the latter, since Christianity is a beautiful and uplifting faith, while pot is actually just a recreational drug with some medicinal applications.

92 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:04:27am

re: #87 BishopX

It's mostly a question of where the heat comes from. Did hydrogen from the aluminum water mixing contribute to the fire? or was it just aircraft fuel and office furniture burning.

My admittedly non-expert understanding is that the heat simply from fires started by the crash, with jet fuel and such, would have been sufficient to compromise the structure enough to cause the collapse. especially if the planes damaged things to start with.

93 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:05:17am

I am naturally cynical of human nature so I advise against hoping that Paul gets the nomination because he would be easy to beat. The American electorate is sometimes irrational and fickle. The Paulbots are zealots and often cut across party lines. Even though I am a republican I was hoping Sen. Clinton got the nomination in 2008: not because I thought she would be easy to beat but because I thought she would be the best president.
Nothing in politics is a sure thing.

94 Achilles Tang  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:05:39am

I simply cannot understand how these so called Republican voters can change their minds every week. I assume the Romney supporters have been steady, but who are all the others? Are they really know nothing fools, or do some drop out and new ones that hadn't been paying attention suddenly take an interest every week or two?

It just makes no sense, even if one calls them stupid. Even the stupids can hold opinions. In fact one would have thought their opinions are more rigid on the whole than others.

95 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:08:00am

re: #94 Naso Tang

I simply cannot understand how these so called Republican voters can change their minds every week. I assume the Romney supporters have been steady, but who are all the others? Are they really know nothing fools, or do some drop out and new ones that hadn't been paying attention suddenly take an interest every week or two?

It just makes no sense, even if one calls them stupid. Even the stupids can hold opinions. In fact one would have thought their opinions are more rigid on the whole than others.

Being fair, in any case where people don't care much for any of the options on the table, it's really easy to get wishy-washy and jump from one to another.

96 BishopX  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:09:39am

re: #92 Simply Sarah

Almost certainly, steel heated over 200C will lose it's temper and jet fuel burns quite a bit hotter than that. The question is basically whether there were other mechanisms at play in the collapse. Just because the combination of a jet fuel fire and exposed steel beams was enough to cause the towers to collapse, doesn't mean that was the only or even the principal cause.

97 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:09:49am

re: #92 Simply Sarah

My admittedly non-expert understanding is that the heat simply from fires started by the crash, with jet fuel and such, would have been sufficient to compromise the structure enough to cause the collapse. especially if the planes damaged things to start with.

Primarily the jet fuel but then you add the materials in the 767s themselves; reams of paper and files within the building; non-fire rated drywall (fire rated drywall is not required in all walls); carpets; rubber carpet padding; carpet cement; painted surfaces; boxes; wiring and wire encasement; conduits; ceiling tiles; floor coverings other than carpet; etc.

98 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:10:39am

Epic LULZ:

‘Progressive’ Church Offers Christmas Billboard Showing Virgin Mary With Pregnancy Test

Line up that outrage!

(CNSNews.com) – A liberal Anglican church in New Zealand has denounced as “Christian intolerance” the defacing of a large billboard it erected outside its premises to mark the Christmas season. The billboard shows an apparently shocked Virgin Mary examining a home pregnancy test kit.

A Catholic activist damaged the billboard on Sunday, during a prayer protest by around 100 Catholics outside the St. Matthews-in-the-City Church, located on a busy intersection in downtown Auckland.

The man responsible for ripping the image, Arthur Skinner of the Catholic Action Group, said the church was welcome to have him arrested, and warned that if the provocative image was replaced he would damage it again.

“Even people who aren’t Catholics know instinctively you don’t attack the Blessed Virgin who gave us the savior of the world,” Skinner told New Zealand television. “To see this at this time is an absolute abomination.”

99 Achilles Tang  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:10:51am

re: #95 Simply Sarah

Being fair, in any case where people don't care much for any of the options on the table, it's really easy to get wishy-washy and jump from one to another.

So, you are saying they are mostly stupids?

100 dragonfire1981  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:10:55am

So if Ron Paul's campaign implodes too...does that mean Romney wins by default?

101 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:12:16am

re: #96 BishopX

Almost certainly, steel heated over 200C will lose it's temper, jet fuel burns quite a bit hotter than that. The question is basically whether there were other mechanisms at play in the collapse. Just because the combination of a jet fuel fire and exposed steel beams was enough to cause the towers to collapse, doesn't mean that was the only or even the principal cause.

It may have been, it may not have been. Obviously, that's an important question for engineers looking to make future buildings stronger. But for me or any other average person? The exact details aren't really important beyond acknowledging that there's no need for crazy conspiracy theories to explain why the towers fell.

102 BishopX  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:12:42am

re: #98 BigPapa

I don't get where the outrage comes from. I mean the bible explicitly says that she was pregnant before giving birth to baby Jesus. What's wrong with the billboard?

103 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:13:11am

re: #98 BigPapa

Epic LULZ:

‘Progressive’ Church Offers Christmas Billboard Showing Virgin Mary With Pregnancy Test

Line up that outrage!

I don't see what the cause is for outrage there. But then, I rarely do, when religious fanatics are concerned.

I think that's actually kind of funny. I don't understand why it's offensive.

105 Simply Sarah  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:14:01am

re: #99 Naso Tang

So, you are saying they are mostly stupids?

No, I'm saying that it's pretty natural to have trouble deciding when none of the options jump out at you. Have you never had a situation where you were all "I dunno. Maybe this one? No, I think I might like this one better. But what about this one?"

106 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:14:34am

re: #104 Alouette

the immaculate contraception

107 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:15:39am

re: #97 Gus 802

Primarily the jet fuel but then you add the materials in the 767s themselves; reams of paper and files within the building; non-fire rated drywall (fire rated drywall is not required in all walls); carpets; rubber carpet padding; carpet cement; painted surfaces; boxes; wiring and wire encasement; conduits; ceiling tiles; floor coverings other than carpet; etc.

You can keep going to in adding up the combustibles within the WTC. Fabric covered cubicle partitions; other cubicle coverings; wood and plastic furniture (chairs, tables, seating); leather and fabric design treatments; fabric lighting shades; table cloths; window treatments; and so on.

108 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:15:42am

re: #106 Dreggas

the immaculate contraception

God's gonna get you for that one.

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:15:54am

re: #102 BishopX

I don't get where the outrage comes from. I mean the bible explicitly says that she was pregnant before giving birth to baby Jesus. What's wrong with the billboard?

Perhaps it suggests that she was without the perfect faith attributed to her--Gabriel told her she was pregnant, why is she double-checking?

//I dunno. Weak. I don't get it either.

110 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:16:34am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Pretty sure the reason people were happy is because the girls said they didn't understand what they were being told to sing and now that they're older, they reject whit nationalism. The pot aspect was just kind of funny

111 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:16:35am

re: #106 Dreggas

the immaculate contraception

The immaculate con quattro formaggi

112 BishopX  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:17:22am

re: #101 Simply Sarah

It may have been, it may not have been. Obviously, that's an important question for engineers looking to make future buildings stronger. But for me or any other average person? The exact details aren't really important beyond acknowledging that there's no need for crazy conspiracy theories to explain why the towers fell.

Pretty much. Speaking as some with an engineering degree, it's something that's kind of fun to consider, but any conclusions drawn from it won't alter the basic fact that some nutjobs crashed a plane into some buildings, causing them to fall down.

113 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:19:04am

I Liked CNS News on Facebook to keep my finger on the Pulse of Derp.

The title of the post from CNS was 'Do you consider this OFFENSIVE to Christians?'

I think to some groups, birth control is of itself offensive.

114 EdDantes  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:19:12am

re: #111 Alouette

The immaculate con quattro formaggi

With four cheeses?

115 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:20:13am

re: #113 BigPapa

I Liked CNS News on Facebook to keep my finger on the Pulse of Derp.

The title of the post from CNS was 'Do you consider this OFFENSIVE to Christians?'

I think to some groups, birth control is of itself offensive.

But it's not about birth control - it shows a pregnancy test.

116 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:20:20am

re: #114 EdDantes

With four cheeses?

The spaghetti bambino

117 Lidane  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:21:48am

Day 2 of making my coffee with a French press. I'm absolutely a convert now. Yummy.

I'll still keep my Keurig brewer for the days that I'm lazy and don't want to bother, but the coffee I've made so far with the press is miles better.

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:21:57am

re: #116 Alouette

The spaghetti bambino

My children keep putting the penguin in baby Jesus' place to see if I notice.

We also have "gingerbread" (graham cracker--it's easier) houses with decapitated gummi bears on them.

Next year I'm not buying anything anthropomorphic for the houses.

119 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:22:08am

re: #106 Dreggas

the immaculate contraception

I think that was the joke from the 'progressive' church, to which the principled vandal took exception.

120 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:24:19am

re: #115 Charles

But it's not about birth control - it shows a pregnancy test.

True, I agree. I think the vandal construes pregnancy tests with birth control, is my assumption.

I just don't know why else it would be offensive.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:24:36am

The bishop who doesn't like it claims it goes against the Biblical account to show her as shocked or frightened.

I think that if this bishop thinks that because 'Mary said yes', she wasn't scared, shocked, upset, and freaked out, he's an idiot.

122 Kragar  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:25:01am

re: #103 Charles

I don't see what the cause is for outrage there. But then, I rarely do, when religious fanatics are concerned.

I think that's actually kind of funny. I don't understand why it's offensive.

I guess some of us don't have the finely honed natural instincts to see the offense.

123 SpaceJesus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:25:35am

Sherrif Joe belongs in prison

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

124 Gus  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:26:55am

re: #98 BigPapa

Epic LULZ:

‘Progressive’ Church Offers Christmas Billboard Showing Virgin Mary With Pregnancy Test

Line up that outrage!

Hey wait a minute. That's not a billboard...

Image: aaa7_24.jpg

Looks like a large sign fastened to a couple of medium sized trees. But the scale is obviously showing that it's not a billboard. This is a billboard...

Image: cbs-billboard.gif

125 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:26:55am

re: #118 EmmmieG

My children keep putting the penguin in baby Jesus' place to see if I notice.

We also have "gingerbread" (graham cracker--it's easier) houses with decapitated gummi bears on them.

Next year I'm not buying anything anthropomorphic for the houses.

My niece used gummis for a school project shoebox display a few years back. It was about evolution and the length of the box was change in time and environment. She used different color gummi bears and also striped ones to show evolutionary advantage (adaptive coloring) and also the striped one as hybrids. Plus she had gummi octopi as predators eating some of the gummi bears as an adaptive pressure example. Which, of course, included a decapitated gummi in the process of being eaten.

I was an advisor in gummi selection since I was visiting while she was putting it together. ;)

126 Kragar  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:27:04am

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

The bishop who doesn't like it claims it goes against the Biblical account to show her as shocked or frightened.

I think that if this bishop thinks that because 'Mary said yes', she wasn't scared, shocked, upset, and freaked out, he's an idiot.

Funniest thing I heard on the subject was a radio show where they had Joseph call in for dating advice.

"Yeah, I'm seeing this girl, and she's pregnant, but I don't think its mine, what should I do?"

127 Kragar  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:28:49am

re: #124 Gus 802

Hey wait a minute. That's not a billboard...

Image: aaa7_24.jpg

Looks like a large sign fastened to a couple of medium sized trees. But the scale is obviously showing that it's not a billboard. This is a billboard...

Image: cbs-billboard.gif

The only honest politician's billboard:

Image: honest-politician.jpg

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:30:35am

Some people just prefer a serene Mary who, as they say in "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever", looks as though she never did anything except give birth to Jesus on Christmas Eve.

I think you miss a lot of the meaning of the story that way, though.

129 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:34:32am

re: #103 Charles

I think that's actually kind of funny. I don't understand why it's offensive.

I just read a crapton of the responses on Facebook. I still don't understand why the outrage either.

130 surlymarv  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:36:42am

re: #39 Gus 802

That may have been the catalyst, but the real "cause" was the fact that the people responsible for arming the missiles had been cutting corners for months, ignoring mandated safety standards. There was a double protection that failed because both groups thought they could skip theirs since the other was in place. There is an excellent book written about this disaster by Gregory Freedman. Anyway, you are correct, it was not McCain's fault. And yes, I'm way off topic.

131 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:40:50am

re: #115 Charles

But it's not about birth control - it shows a pregnancy test.

Oh come on Charles. We know how they think: women aren't even supposed to see it coming...

132 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:43:42am

re: #131 prononymous

Or the corollary: You can't make a choice about information you don't have.

133 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:49:19am

re: #115 Charles

But it's not about birth control - it shows a pregnancy test.

I think the offense is that Mary would doubt the ability of the Holy Spirit to follow through as promised. (Who wouldn't want a little confirmation of faith if it were available?)

134 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:49:28am

re: #98 BigPapa

Epic LULZ:

‘Progressive’ Church Offers Christmas Billboard Showing Virgin Mary With Pregnancy Test

Line up that outrage!

Interesting take. My priest, this past weekend preached on that passage from Luke. His basic message was that she was not a meek, passive & subservient woman who just let it all happen because she had no choice. (Though he didn't go there, there were a number of possibilities even in Roman Palestine. ) Rather she took an active role in agreeing to be part of gods plan in this world.

Then there's the whole Magnificat which is a far more political tract that most people seem to want to be reminded of:
"He hath filled the hungry with good things:
and the rich He hath sent empty away."

135 Achilles Tang  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:53:40am

re: #98 BigPapa

Epic LULZ:

‘Progressive’ Church Offers Christmas Billboard Showing Virgin Mary With Pregnancy Test

Line up that outrage!

Brings to mind some people who don't like to see bombs in turbans.

136 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:55:55am

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

The bishop who doesn't like it claims it goes against the Biblical account to show her as shocked or frightened.

I think that if this bishop thinks that because 'Mary said yes', she wasn't scared, shocked, upset, and freaked out, he's an idiot.

According to Luke 1:26 she was "much perplexed" by the angels greeting and ol' Gabriel had to say for her not to be afraid in the next verse. I've always been puzzeled by perplexed as the word choice there, but it's pretty obvious she wasn't dancing a jig at the sight of an Angel of the Lord.

Part of this is millennia old. One of the traditional Roman anti-Christian meme's was that Mary was simply raped by a legionary. Thus the emphasis on the fulfilling of the prophecy in Isaiah and the rather Roman understanding of Virginity as a state rather than simply as an unmarried woman.

137 Achilles Tang  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 11:56:15am

re: #133 wrenchwench

I think the offense is that Mary would doubt the ability of the Holy Spirit to follow through as promised. (Who wouldn't want a little confirmation of faith if it were available?)

How does the story go? Was she told before or after the conception? Was she asked?

138 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 12:07:42pm

re: #98 BigPapa

Epic LULZ:

‘Progressive’ Church Offers Christmas Billboard Showing Virgin Mary With Pregnancy Test

Line up that outrage!

It was vandalism, why make it into a "they want to drive our church from American soil" shit. Someone(s) sitting around burning a number and goofing on a billboard decided to act up. Not in very good taste and destruction of private property, yes. Funny, in my opinion, yes. Against the law, yes. An attack on their church to drive them from the community, no (for that to be the case it would have to be an attack directly on the church with fire or a bomb. You know, like it was a muslim mosque or something).

139 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 12:13:20pm

Wait, whut? Newt imploding already? Say it ain't so! //

140 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 12:16:56pm

re: #138 RayFerd

Tried to retract but too late on the pencil. Wasn't vandalism as I first quickly read it.

141 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 12:29:30pm

re: #137 Naso Tang

How does the story go? Was she told before or after the conception? Was she asked?

Looks like you have a better source for that in wlewisiii, above your comment. I got distracted looking for R. Crumb's version. Alas, I did not find it. Was a dove flying up Mary's garments.

142 Robert O.  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 12:46:34pm

Ron Paul could be the Barry Goldwater of 2012.

143 Ming  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 12:54:55pm

Christopher Hitchens on Ron Paul:

144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 1:21:32pm

re: #28 Sergey Romanov

Hm. Not sure I would agree with the terminology. In what way these lwnjs are confederates?

Start with a willingness to hop in bed with literal neo-Confederates like the fucks at lewrockwell.com, The American Conservative/Buchananites, and/or antisemitic troothers, exemplified by the Cynthia McKinney (I call her Cynthia McKlanny)-American Free Press partnership; add to it this absurd pretension that presstv.ir, Alex Jones, and Hamas/Hezbollah are somehow friends of the American left because they, too are um, "critical" of America and Israel, there are many examples.

Yay, anyone who is against the actions of the US gubernment and George Bush/Obama/Same Thing must be an ally!

I've been having this conversation with those types for most of last decade -- bottom line is, a lot just don't care when it's pointed out just as Charles did re: Ron Paul. And yet, the same people will cry "guilt by association!!" at a drop of a hat when it's pointed out just what these associations actually are and where they lead.

It's as if no one ever learns.

F'em on the same level as the rwnj confederates.

145 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Dec 19, 2011 2:55:09pm

re: #120 BigPapa

I just don't know why else it would be offensive.

It's actually simple - it fails to show proper reverence to divine figures in his mind by putting them into a humorous poster.


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