PolitiFact’s Lie of the Year Is True

The Magical Balance Fairy strikes again
Politics • Views: 28,485

What a disappointment. In a year absolutely filled with blatant, outrageous right wing Big Lies, Politifact picks as their “Lie of the Year” something that’s actually a true statement: Lie of the Year 2011: ‘Republicans voted to end Medicare’.

Simply put, I don’t buy their rationale. And in fact, their own readers’ poll shows that this was only the third most popular choice; the first and second choices really were outright lies. The poll results:

  1. The economic stimulus created “zero jobs.” — The National Republican Senatorial Committee and other Republicans (24%)
  2. Abortion services are “well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does.”- Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz. (17%)
  3. “Republicans voted to end Medicare.” — The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and other Democrats (16%)

Steve Benen’s post shows why Politifact is simply wrong in calling this a “lie:” PolitiFact ought to be ashamed of itself.

It’s unnerving that we have to explain this again, but since PolitiFact appears to be struggling with the relevant details, let’s set the record straight.

Medicare is a single-payer health care system offering guaranteed benefits to seniors. The House Republican budget plan intended to privatize the existing system and replace it with something very different — a voucher scheme. It would still be called “Medicare,” but it wouldn’t be Medicare.

It seems foolish to have to parse the meaning of the word “end,” but if there’s a program, and it’s replaced with a different program, proponents brought an end to the original program. That’s what the verb means.

I’ve been trying to think of the best analogy for this. How about this one: imagine someone owns a Ferrari. It’s expensive and drives beautifully, and the owner desperately wants to keep his car intact. Now imagine I took the car away, removed the metallic badge off the trunk that says “Ferrari,” I stuck it on a golf cart, and I handed the owner the keys.

“Where’s my Ferrari?” the owner would ask.

“It’s right here,” I’d respond. “This has four wheels, a steering wheel, and pedals, and it says ‘Ferrari’ right there on the back.”

By PolitiFact’s reasoning, I haven’t actually replaced the car — and if you disagree, you’re a pants-on-fire liar.

It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that Politifact isn’t really checking facts here, but trying for a phony kind of “balance” to avoid being accused of partisan bias — because while it’s true that dishonesty is often practiced on both sides of America’s political process, in the Obama era there’s far more of it coming from the right.

Also see
Dems brush off PolitiFact finding - The Plum Line

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456 comments
1 BishopX  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:19:13pm

I can't wait to hear what buck has to say about this.

2 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:20:00pm

Reality has a well known liberal bias.

3 Robert O.  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:20:59pm

I suspect the Politifact (like many in the mainstream media) is going out of its way to "be fair to both sides." After all, the last two Lies of the Year were somewhat health-related and were uttered by Republicans, they felt the need to equivocate Democrats, even though the two Parties are not even on the same planet when it comes to deception, misinformation and deliberate lying on a day-to-day basis.

4 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:22:03pm

Who fact checks the fact checkers?

5 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:22:31pm

re: #1 BishopX

I can't wait to hear what buck has to say about this.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

6 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:23:07pm

Look at it this way, if they picked something accurate, no one would be talking about it because everyone know the GOP is full of lying SOBs. By picking this one, everyone is bringing up better examples and discussing the issue more.

I'm sure this was their intention all along.
/

7 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:24:11pm

An example of a left wing lie: the claim that the NDAA authorizes indefinite detention of US citizens. It absolutely does not. But people like Glenn Greenwald are writing thousands of words of bullshit promoting the lie that it does.

8 Robert O.  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:26:58pm

Also, look at the standard to which Politifact has to apply to make both sides roughly equal. They gave Jon Stewart a "pants on fire" for quoting wrong information directly from the History Channel (who would normally doubt the History Channel?) If wasn't even Jon Stewart's wrong information. On the other hand, Rick Perry saying "kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in schools" (i.e., clear, deliberate lie to push a viewpoint) is only rated false. I love the idea of Politifact, but have been disappointed lately.

9 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:28:48pm

re: #8 Robert O.

Also, look at the standard to which Politifact has to apply to make both sides roughly equal.

Yes, like this little bit of stretching that would put to shame a double-jointed Yoga expert:

They used harsh terms such as “end” and “kill” when the program would still exist, although in a privatized system.

Durr hurr, if we turn public fire protection into a fee-for-service system, it technically still exists! You can't say it got killed!!!1!1

10 recusancy  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:30:55pm

re: #7 Charles

An example of a left wing lie: the claim that the NDAA authorizes indefinite detention of US citizens. It absolutely does not. But people like Glenn Greenwald are writing thousands of words of bullshit promoting the lie that it does.

Al Franken says the NDAA does authorize the military to detain Americans indefinitely.

11 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:31:17pm

re: #7 Charles

Here's what Adam Serwer, whom you cited on this previously, wrote:

[Link: motherjones.com...]

The bill also authorizes the indefinite military detention of American citizens and permanent residents if they are suspected of links to Al Qaeda, something so controversial that even the Bush administration balked at it, slipping Jose Padilla back into the criminal justice system after years of military detention in order to avoid a confrontation with the Supreme Court. Congress is preparing to overturn a precedent that was followed almost without exception by the Bush administration: Domestic terrorism arrests are the province of law enforcement, not the military. The provision passed out of the Democratic-controlled Senate Armed Services Committee with only a single dissenting vote, from Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.).

[...]

Then there's indefinite detention of US citizens and permanent residents. Although military detention for citizens isn't mandatory, it is permitted.

Why the contradicting claim the later article? If I understand correctly, some sort of an amendment was passed at the last moment that left some loopholes. However, before that amendment this claim would be true. So is it a "left-wing lie"? Maybe, when coming from Greenwald. When coming from an average blogger/twitterer it's more of an easily understandable confusion.

12 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:35:02pm

Polifact is parsing this in ways that defy common usage or common sense. The veracity of the claim hinges on whether you consider Medicare to be simply a name of a program or what the program entails. Since most people assume that Medicare means the single payer health care insurance/delivery system for qualifying seniors and other qualifying disabled Americans, changing that system to one that relies on vouchers (no matter how far off in the future that those changes occur) is ending Medicare as we know it.

The GOP proposal may keep the current system intact for those who are expected to get Medicare services now and within the next 10 years, but it would shift everyone else into a system of vouchers. It would retain the name Medicare.

The name is all that would remain of the program, but the program would be operated in a completely different fashion. Someone accessing Medicaid after the changes would have taken effect would have encountered something completely different than the current system - from how they pay for it, to the costs incurred.

But as to why they picked this over the other two? I think it's because it is a "lie" that follows the past couple of "lies of the year" that relate to health care, so they went again to that theme.

Fact is that the stimulus did create jobs - just not nearly enough to offset massive layoffs both in the private sector but at the state and local government levels. Saying there were no jobs created was a pants on fire moment. Ditto for the Planned Parenthood lie.

13 Mattand  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:35:56pm
It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that Politifact isn’t really checking facts here, but trying for a phony kind of “balance” to avoid being accused of partisan bias—because while it’s true that dishonesty is often practiced on both sides of America’s political process, in the Obama era there’s far more of it coming from the right.

I saw this earlier today at TPM. That was my first reaction as well. It's only conjecture, but I'm wondering if the St. Petersburg Times has been catching shit from its Tea Bagging readers and trying to appease them.

I'm convinced that's what CNN has been doing for a while. Forget facts and genuflect before the Magical Balance Fairy™.

15 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:37:50pm

re: #12 lawhawk

Polifact is parsing this in ways that defy common usage or common sense. The veracity of the claim hinges on whether you consider Medicare to be simply a name of a program or what the program entails. Since most people assume that Medicare means the single payer health care insurance/delivery system for qualifying seniors and other qualifying disabled Americans, changing that system to one that relies on vouchers (no matter how far off in the future that those changes occur) is ending Medicare as we know it.

The GOP proposal may keep the current system intact for those who are expected to get Medicare services now and within the next 10 years, but it would shift everyone else into a system of vouchers. It would retain the name Medicare.

The name is all that would remain of the program, but the program would be operated in a completely different fashion. Someone accessing Medicaid after the changes would have taken effect would have encountered something completely different than the current system - from how they pay for it, to the costs incurred.

But as to why they picked this over the other two? I think it's because it is a "lie" that follows the past couple of "lies of the year" that relate to health care, so they went again to that theme.

Fact is that the stimulus did create jobs - just not nearly enough to offset massive layoffs both in the private sector but at the state and local government levels. Saying there were no jobs created was a pants on fire moment. Ditto for the Planned Parenthood lie.

///The Planned Parenthood thing wasn't a lie, a lie is when you try to misleed someone by telling them something other than the truth, the Planned Parenthood thing from the start was not intended to be a factual statement!

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:38:00pm

re: #11 Sergey Romanov

Because that language was removed from the final bill.

17 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:38:00pm

Congrats Politifact.
Your credibility is now officially gone.

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:38:11pm

Also:
[Link: motherjones.com...]

The latest version of the bill bill maintains transfer restrictions on the transfer of Gitmo detainees that were passed last year. It also retains the language of the Senate "compromise" on indefinite detention without trial of American citizens apprehended on US soil, leaving the issue an open question for the courts to resolve. The way the compromise is worded, however, could be construed as authorizing military detention of American citizens who are captured abroad, even if they're not apprehended fighting on a hot battlefield such as Afghanistan.

19 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:39:43pm

re: #18 Sergey Romanov

Also:
[Link: motherjones.com...]

Yes, Serwer's not a fan of the NDAA - but he's been quite clear that it does not authorize indefinite detention of US citizens.

See the FAQ link I posted above for an exhaustive discussion of what's actually in the bill.

20 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:42:34pm

I've actually come to respect Al Franken quite a lot recently; he usually seems very well-informed on the subjects he speaks out about. In this case, though, he's just factually wrong.

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:43:08pm

re: #19 Charles

My point is that rather than being a lie, in most cases it's simple confusion caused by legalistic zigzags.

22 recusancy  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:43:53pm

Udall introduces bill to ensure that Americans cannot be held indefinitely without charges

Today, Senator Mark Udall, a member of the Senate Armed Services and Intelligence committees, announced that he has joined Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein in introducing the Due Process Guarantee Act of 2011, to clarify that American citizens apprehended inside the United States cannot be indefinitely detained by the military.

23 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:45:18pm

Charles,
Genuine disagreement here. Factcheck did not give this the lie of the year, but they are in agreement with the basics. A "whopper of 2011"

That's not one but two respected fact checking calling out the hyperbole.

Since media matters by their own admission is ONLY interested in conservative lies, they are not a source to check with.
From the Factcheck site
Democratic Whopper:
Republicans Would ‘End Medicare’

First the truth: The budget plan that Republicans pushed through the House in 2011 would have radically changed Medicare in the future — for workers now under age 55. Starting in the year 2022, the GOP plan called for new Medicare beneficiaries to purchase private insurance with the help of federal subsidies.

But the plan would have continued the present Medicare system indefinitely for those now getting benefits, and also for all those who reach age 65 during the next decade.

24 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:46:50pm

re: #14 Charles

Another excellent post that cuts through the bullshit: Lawfare > NDAA FAQ: A Guide for the Perplexed.

I highly recommend that FAQ. They cut through the nonsense about the NDAA without the kind of bluster and exaggerated contortions that Greenwald and others have wrought.

Besides, if someone were to challenge the constitutionality of the NDAA, the Constitution supersedes the federal law. As it is, we've seen numerous suits challenging the government's right to hold detainees (indefinitely or otherwise) at places like Gitmo or other facilities - whether they were captured on the battlefield or on US soil, and whether they were US citizens or not.

25 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:47:07pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Charles,
Genuine disagreement here. Factcheck did not give this the lie of the year, but they are in agreement with the basics. A "whopper of 2011"

That's not one but two respected fact checking calling out the hyperbole.

Since media matters by their own admission is ONLY interested in conservative lies, they are not a source to check with.
From their site
Democratic Whopper:
Republicans Would ‘End Medicare’

First the truth: The budget plan that Republicans pushed through the House in 2011 would have radically changed Medicare in the future — for workers now under age 55. Starting in the year 2022, the GOP plan called for new Medicare beneficiaries to purchase private insurance with the help of federal subsidies.

But the plan would have continued the present Medicare system indefinitely for those now getting benefits, and also for all those who reach age 65 during the next decade.

So it would only end Medicare for those below 55..... that's not reasuring or alter the main point that it's going to end medicare eventually.

26 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:47:27pm

re: #12 lawhawk

Take a look at Factcheck.

27 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:47:38pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Starting in the year 2022, the GOP plan called for new Medicare beneficiaries to purchase private insurance with the help of federal subsidies.

And this is simply ending Medicare as it currently exists, and replacing it with something else. The fact that they'd still call it "Medicare" is irrelevant.

28 Atlas Fails  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:48:17pm

In regards to the NDAA:

I'm actually not a big fan of the bill, and I wish Obama had the moxie to veto the damn thing until Congress got its shit together and cleared up the ambiguous language. But to say that it authorizes indefinite detention of American citizens is, as Charles said, just factually wrong.

29 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:49:56pm

re: #20 Charles

I've actually come to respect Al Franken quite a lot recently; he usually seems very well-informed about the subjects he speaks out about. In this case, though, he's just factually wrong.

This underscores my point above. Also:

The confusion associated with the NDAA’s treatment of the citizenship issue is understandable. First, the NDAA’s text relevant to this question changed quite a bit over time. Second, the relationship of the NDAA to pre-existing detention authority is difficult to follow if one does not keep up with this area regularly.

[Link: www.lawfareblog.com...]

30 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:50:34pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Again, if you keep the name the same, but materially change the operation of the program for Americans under a certain age (who aren't disabled and can enter the program before 55) - you are ending the program as we know it.

Those who are within a decade of entering Medicare wont see changes under the proposed legislation, but everyone else would. The GOP plan would have changed basic aspects of the program's operation.

This isn't merely changing the minimum age to access the program (such as changing a retirement age from 65 to 72 to access for example), but a wholesale shift to an entirely new program, but one with the same name. Keeping it under the same name doesn't mean that it's the same program.

What we'd get is Medicare II, not Medicare continued. And as such, it would be ending Medicare as we know it.

31 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:52:14pm

The Ryan budget gets rid of what makes Medicare, Medicare.
Keeping the name means squat.

32 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:52:55pm

Politifact is the Joe Isuzu of fact-checking.

33 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:55:12pm

re: #27 Charles

And this is simply ending Medicare as it currently exists, and replacing it with something else. The fact that they'd still call it "Medicare" is irrelevant.

Yet when one says "end medicare" that can easily (and as was implied) to be taken as well, the true end of the program. Finished, no more help, no more money no more access to care apart from out of pocket like any uninsured person.

I appreciate most would say that the Ryan plan circa 2022 is the functional end of medicare, but one would have to know if the subsidies would be adequate to the task, or not. I'm not at all sure how that will play out so far up the road.

And really, those political commercial images showing folks way over 55 now really were over the top. The implication was that 2022 is 2012.

34 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:56:06pm

re: #32 darthstar

Factcheck too?

35 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:57:09pm

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

"Starting in the year 2022," after everyone's dead.
/

36 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:58:18pm

re: #34 Rightwingconspirator

Factcheck too?

Felu mele iki bobo.

37 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:58:41pm

I would have thought that the "lie of the year" would not only have to be factually incorrect but also an attempt to significantly mislead the audience.

While they can nitpick the language used, the message being conveyed is actually true. Medicare would be phased out for something that really isn't medicare anymore.

The other two contenders for "lie of the year" are both factually incorrect and a blatant attempt at misleading the audience.

38 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 12:58:57pm

re: #33 Rightwingconspirator

Yet when one says "end medicare" that can easily (and as was implied) to be taken as the well, the true end of the program. Finished, no more help, no more money no more access to care apart from out of pocket like any uninsured person.

I appreciate most would say that the Ryan plan circa 2022 is the functional end of medicare, but one would have to know if the subsidies would be adequate to the task, or not. I'm not at all sure how that will play out so far up the road.

And really, those political commercial images showing folks way over 55 now really were over the top. The implication was that 2022 is 2012.

Changing Medicare to a voucher based plan would go over as well as changing the fire fighters to a voucher based service.

Its in the public interest that we all be relatively healthy and go to the doctors relatively frequently so as to help aovid spreading diseases and allow us to be productive members of society... people's health shouldn't be left to the free market.

Also

A: Aren't the subidies the Ryan plan is going to give out going to increase based on the inflation rate?

And

B: Hasn't the cost of healthcare had a tendency to increase faster than the inflation rate?


If I'm wrong on either of the above points please let me know because otherwise I don't see how the Ryan version of Medicare can possibly avoid becomming more and more useless with every passing year.

39 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:00:20pm

re: #38 jamesfirecat

I don't see how the Ryan version of Medicare can possibly avoid becoming more and more useless with every passing year.

Methinks that's the point.

40 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:00:42pm

re: #33 Rightwingconspirator

And yes - the polifact and other analysis note that there was conflating the changes so that people might be led to believe that these changes were going to happen immediately.Those were lies and exaggerations, but not on a scale seen with the other top "whoppers" on the list.

Fact is - if you're going to materially change a program so that it no longer exists in the fashion that everyone understands that the program operates under, but omit that the changes wont happen 10 years down the line, you're still ending the program as we know it. The obfuscation over when those changes take effect diminishes the bigger issue - that the GOP plan would have changed a major entitlement program in ways that we've never seen before in the country, and would have sorely diminished the safety net for millions of Americans.

41 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:01:38pm

re: #36 darthstar

Felu mele iki bobo.

Youtube Video

(for those who don't know the "felu mele iki bobo" reference)
42 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:02:47pm

re: #41 darthstar

[Video]
(for those who don't know the "felu mele iki bobo" reference)

Lol.

43 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:03:44pm

Cindy Jacobs Warns of Satan's Grip in 'Ungodly' Education System

Self-proclaimed prophet Cindy Jacobs told participants of the Prophetic Marketplace Conference that the public education system has Satanic origins because John Dewey, who led the development of progressive education, was a signatory of the Humanist Manifesto. Jacobs said that God told her to “go look up the Humanist Manifesto” to learn about who is instructing the people of America and the entire world. “I began to study this and I began to see that there was something desperately wrong because since 1933 the educational systems of the world had been totally diluted, deceived, coopted and taken over by this ungodly system,” Jacobs explained. She concluded that Satan “founded humanism” in the Garden of Eden, which now, because of John Dewey, has taken over public education.

Well, in that case, thanks Satan.

44 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:04:18pm

re: #38 jamesfirecat

I would consider the impact of large sums of money on a system like this. Medicare limits what it pays already. That helps fight medical cost inflation. I think every plan has some attempt to address that. If we are to assume this will come to some horrible inadequate end, well that's hard to square up with the likely consequences at the vote booth. But we can of course speculate as we wish. Frankly I'm not sure the GOP will even exist then.

45 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:04:47pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cindy Jacobs Warns of Satan's Grip in 'Ungodly' Education System

Well, in that case, thanks Satan.

Indeed.
I greatly appreciate the gift on knowledge.

46 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:06:22pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cindy Jacobs Warns of Satan's Grip in 'Ungodly' Education System

Well, in that case, thanks Satan.

I know, we have made leaps and bounds in progress since then in science, medicine, space travel, computers. All from people educated in the system since that time. I am glad I know who to thank for that now.

'preciate it satan.

47 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:06:38pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

I would consider the impact of large sums of money on a system like this. Medicare limits what it pays already. That helps fight medical cost inflation. I think every plan has some attempt to address that. If we are to assume this will come to some horrible inadequate end, well that's hard to square up with the likely consequences at the vote booth. But we can of course speculate as we wish. Frankly I'm not sure the GOP will even exist then.

Doesn't the fact that Medicare exists as an alternative to buying something from the free market do a lot to help limit price inflation?

Once its gone, its free market or bust.... which sort of makes my point for me.

48 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:07:20pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cindy Jacobs Warns of Satan's Grip in 'Ungodly' Education System

Well, in that case, thanks Satan.

Another bone head.
I can hear them bleating as they rut.

49 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:09:25pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cindy Jacobs Warns of Satan's Grip in 'Ungodly' Education System

Well, in that case, thanks Satan.

The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.
-- Frank Zappa

50 Locker  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:09:31pm

Last two years the Lie of the Year was a "Republican" lie and of the top 5 poll respondent lies, four were Republican and the non-lie attributed to Democrats.

This is a balancing act, nothing more. If it were really the pants-on-fire lie of the year they wouldn't need 25 paragraphs and 10 pages of text to explain why we should believe their selection.

Lame.

51 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:11:45pm

re: #47 jamesfirecat

Argue with the terms of the plan all you want. That's not really the point.
The hyperbole was the correct (IMO) point from both organizations. We are all caught up in the meaning of the word "end' and next ignoring the robo calls, the TV commercials that were well over the top.


Test Market for Spin
Fact-twisting TV ads flood a three-way special House race in upstate New York.Democrats also claim the Republican budget plan "increases the national debt by $8 trillion" over 10 years. Actually, the GOP plan calls for $4.5 trillion less debt than projected under President Obama's budget.

52 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:13:03pm

OT: There has been another unfortunate 'accident' in Iran.

Fire at Iran refinery prompts state of emergency

A malfunction at an Isfahan refinery caused a leakage of cooling water from its generators - the latest in a string of mysterious mishaps in Iran in the past few months. A power outage was created as a result and a state of emergency was declared at the refinery, the Iranian Mehr news agency reported.

According to the report, one person was injured and taken to hospital. Various eye-witnesses reported seeing flames and thick smoke covering the area. The report stated that workers burned off the excess oil and gas in pipes to prevent a blast in the site. Traffic to the site was blocked and all phone lines were disconnected to prevent an explosion.

They are having one awful string of bad luck lately.

Heh.

53 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:14:17pm

re: #51 Rightwingconspirator

Argue with the terms of the plan all you want. That's not really the point.
The hyperbole was the correct (IMO) point from both organizations. We are all caught up in the meaning of the word "end' and next ignoring the robo calls, the TV commercials that were well over the top.

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

Test Market for Spin
Fact-twisting TV ads flood a three-way special House race in upstate New York.Democrats also claim the Republican budget plan "increases the national debt by $8 trillion" over 10 years. Actually, the GOP plan calls for $4.5 trillion less debt than projected under President Obama's budget.

Medicare is a government plan that allows old people to buy a form of medical insurance provided by the government and not by the freemarket.

The Republican plan suggests replacing this with giving people X amount of dollars and telling them to buy a freemarket solution to their healthcare problem.

Am I wrong about any of the above?

54 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:14:19pm

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

OT: There has been another unfortunate 'accident' in Iran.

Fire at Iran refinery prompts state of emergency

They are having one awful string of bad luck lately.

Heh.

Thats too bad.

55 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:14:46pm

On the bright side, with this demonstration of impartiality, fairness, and balance, Politifact has not only gained in credibility, but hardline Conservatives will now have to accept its factual statements as objective truths, and amend their views accordingly.

Oh wait.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:14:57pm

re: #49 prononymous

The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.
-- Frank Zappa

Doesn't this woman know that salvation was dependent on that liberalism?

Adam lay ybounden,
Bounden in a bond;
Four thousand winter,
Thought he not too long.

And all was for an apple,
An apple that he took.
As clerkes finden,
Written in their book.

Ne had the apple taken been,
The apple taken been,
Ne had never our ladie,
Abeen heav'ne queen.

Blessed be the time
That apple taken was,
Therefore we moun singen.
Deo gracias!

57 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:15:29pm

re: #51 Rightwingconspirator

But the point of my post is that even if you agree that the Democrats were using "hyperbole," that does not even remotely rise to the level of "Lie of the Year."

The very fact that we're discussing this, and arguments can be made for both sides of the issue, shows that calling this a "lie" is disingenuous.

58 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:16:22pm

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

Doesn't this woman know that salvation was dependent on that liberalism?

I'm not going to be making any bets on the extent of that woman's knowledge. Heh.

59 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:16:34pm

re: #50 Locker

So if we have ten lies by the GOP, we and the fact checkers are obligated to ignore one or two or three from the Dems? I don't think so. Call out the lies at will. Set aside the partisan filter sometime. re: #53 jamesfirecat

A subsidized market is not a free market. it is influenced by the subsidy and still subject to government regulations. But that is all beside the point about the lies, the hyperbole by the critics.

My lunch break is over back to work for me.

60 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:17:33pm

re: #57 Charles

But the point of my post is that even if you agree that the Democrats were using "hyperbole," that does not even remotely rise to the level of "Lie of the Year."

The very fact that we're discussing this, and arguments can be made for both sides of the issue, shows that calling this a "lie" is disingenuous.

Maybe calling it the lie of the year wans't intended to be a factual statement, you know like the cliam maid by Jon Kyl, R-Ariz about 90% of what Planned Parenthood does is abortion that was so roundly mocked it created its own internet meme... if there was any justice in the world it would obviously win lie of the year!

61 Locker  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:18:28pm

re: #59 Rightwingconspirator

So if we have ten lies by the GOP, we and the fact checkers are obligated to ignore one or two or three from the Dems? I don't think so. Call out the lies at will. Set aside the partisan filter sometime. re: #53 jamesfirecat

A subsidized market is not a free market. it is influenced by the subsidy and still subject to government regulations. But that is all beside the point about the lies, the hyperbole by the critics.

My lunch break is over back to work for me.

If you have ten lies by the GOP, you as fact checkers are not obligated to make up a lie by the Dems just for it to seem balanced.

62 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:20:44pm

re: #59 Rightwingconspirator

So if we have ten lies by the GOP, we and the fact checkers are obligated to ignore one or two or three from the Dems? I don't think so. Call out the lies at will. Set aside the partisan filter sometime. re: #53 jamesfirecat

A subsidized market is not a free market. it is influenced by the subsidy and still subject to government regulations. But that is all beside the point about the lies, the hyperbole by the critics.

My lunch break is over back to work for me.

If the government suggested that it would no longer fire fighters and instead giivng you money to pay to people to put out the fire should your house catch flame or hire a for profit service to put it out in the event of a fire, would it be fair to say that the government has ended the firefighter service?

63 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:23:48pm

SBC President says Christians will find it easier to vote for a serial adulterer than a Mormon

The issue presented by Romney's faith may be more deeply rooted to South Carolinians.

"In South Carolina, Romney's Mormonism will be more of a cause of concern than Gingrich's infidelity," said Atkins, the pastor at Powdersville First Baptist Church in the Upstate.

"Conservatives can process and pray their way through the issue of forgiveness toward a Christian that has had infidelity in their life, but will struggle to understand how anyone could be a Mormon and call themselves 'Christian.'"

Catering to the bigoted fucks who think cheating on their spouses isn't a big deal segment of the GOP base.

64 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:24:10pm

Though a rose by any other name will smell as sweet, a flaming turd called a rose will still stink.

Thus endeth my thoughts profound for the day.

65 Charleston Chew  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:24:21pm

It took me a while to understand that mandatory fake balance creates a game where whoever lies the most wins.

It's like making a rule: For every lie that one side is held accountable for, the other side must be held accountable for one lie to balance. So if my enemy tells 5 lies, I can tell 100 and get away with 95 because whoever's keeping score is still waiting for the other side to do their 6th lie before going back to counting mine.

Fake balance incentivises lying.

66 recusancy  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:26:40pm

re: #65 Charleston Chew

It took me a while to understand that mandatory fake balance creates a game where whoever lies the most wins.

It's like making a rule: For every lie that one side is held accountable for, the other side must be held accountable for one lie to balance. So if my enemy tells 5 lies, I can tell 100 and get away with 95 because whoever's keeping score is still waiting for the other side to do their 6th lie before going back to counting mine.

Fake balance incentivises lying.

Well put. Looking over factcheck.org I see that they make sure to keep it exactly even. There's a D then an R then a D then an R all the way through the site.

67 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:26:58pm

re: #50 Locker

This is a balancing act, nothing more.

QFT.

68 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:27:12pm

re: #65 Charleston Chew

It took me a while to understand that mandatory fake balance creates a game where whoever lies the most wins.

It's like making a rule: For every lie that one side is held accountable for, the other side must be held accountable for one lie to balance. So if my enemy tells 5 lies, I can tell 100 and get away with 95 because whoever's keeping score is still waiting for the other side to do their 6th lie before going back to counting mine.

Fake balance incentivises lying.

Fake balance can make you fall over a fake precipice.

69 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:27:53pm

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

SBC President says Christians will find it easier to vote for a serial adulterer than a Mormon

Catering to the bigoted fucks who think cheating on their spouses isn't a big deal segment of the GOP base.

I think that makes quite a statement about the ethics of the SBC. What a person calls himself is more important than what a person actually does. Sums it right up, it does.

70 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:29:13pm

Kepler discovers more planets

NASA scientists today announced the discovery of two Earth sized planets, named Kepler 20E and 20F. The planets were discovered by the Kepler space telescope team. "The first of the two planets has a diameter just 3 percent larger than the Earth, which makes it the closest object to Earth, in terms of size in the known universe," said Francois Fressin, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, during a conference call to announce the major discovery.

The two planets are believed to be too close to their sun and thus too hot to be habitable with temperatures ranging from 800 to 14
hundred degrees. Scientists speculate that Kepler 20F might have had liquid water at one time in its history and could have been habitable.

The Kepler science team says this is the first time humanity has been able to detect planets of Earth size in the Universe.

71 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:31:13pm

re: #44 Rightwingconspirator

I'll pick this one, since it's as good as any of your others. But, seriously, the "Lie of the Year" is "Republicans voted to end Medicare". While you can say it wouldn't happen immediately or that the Democrats over-hyped what it all meant, I don't see how you can honestly claim it wasn't a vote to end Medicare as it has always been known and replace it with something else entirely. Just because they'd have kept referring to Dick Sargent as Medicare doesn't mean it would actually be Medicare.

It would have ended Medicare, period. You don't get a pass on that by kicking it down the road. That's not how things work.

72 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:32:18pm

re: #37 prononymous

Following up on this thought: Context matters.

I could see it as an attempt to significantly mislead if the message is being targeted towards seniors already on medicare - as a way of scaring them. But if the message was targeted at the general population, I don't feel it misleads at all. Phasing out medicare as we know it does, effectively, bring it to an end.

73 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:33:00pm

re: #69 allegro

I think that makes quite a statement about the ethics of the SBC. What a person calls himself is more important than what a person actually does. Sums it right up, it does.

It goes with the belief that no matter what one does on earth, if you don't believe in Jesus the same way they do, you're going to burn in hellfire for eternity.

75 JeffM70  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:34:17pm

PolitiFact rests its argument on the fact that Democrats should have said Ryan's plan would end Medicare for those under the age of 55 while keeping it in place for those over 55. Yes, Democrats were not being entirely truthful, but they were not being entirely dishonest either. The argument that the stimulus created zero jobs is outright and demonstrably false. The two arguments are not equal. If one side tells more lies or more egregious lies than the other, then say so, don't create false equivalencies or false balance.

76 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:34:30pm

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It goes with the belief that no matter what one does on earth, if you don't believe in Jesus the same way they do, you're going to burn in hellfire for eternity.

Heaven must be boring as shit.

77 recusancy  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:34:45pm

MythBuster Adam Savage: SOPA Could Destroy the Internet as We Know It

78 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:35:17pm

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It goes with the belief that no matter what one does on earth, if you don't believe in Jesus the same way they do, you're going to burn in hellfire for eternity.

As many greater than I have noted, if the choice is burning in hell with the sinners or spending an eternity with those self-righteous pricks, let me burn. Please.

79 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:36:34pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

Heaven must be boring as shit.

Youtube Video
80 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:38:21pm

Wait! We were always told it was hamsters?????

81 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:38:42pm

I bought my first PC in 1995. It was a '386 with a 20MB MFM HDD. Since then I've upgraded the parts incrementally - I added RAM, I increased the size of the drive, I upgraded the MoBo and the CPU, I've even changed the case multiple times. At no point could you say the upgrade definitely resulted in a different computer yet when I compare the current with the original it is impossible to claim they're the same species.

Had the GOP microevolved Medicare incrementally then Politifact would be correct, but since the GOP want to go from one to the other through macromutation, Politifact is incorrect.

82 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:39:25pm

re: #77 recusancy

MythBuster Adam Savage: SOPA Could Destroy the Internet as We Know It

No one that understand the first thing about the Internet and isn't in the pocket of an industry with huge amounts of money invested in outdated models they refuse to change thinks SOPA would be anything less than a disaster.

83 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:39:31pm

re: #70 Varek Raith

Kepler discovers more planets

He did all this from his deathbed, right?

84 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:40:02pm

I get it --Medicare would be replaced with NewMedicare.

Like every restaurant will be a Taco Bell?

85 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:40:23pm

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

White Supremacist Harpham Gets 32 Years For Failed MLK Parade Bomb Attack

From there:

As TPM reported, federal authorities were able to track down Harpham because they noticed an unusually high number of sales of quarter-ounce fishing weights — the kind used in the bomb — at a Walmart in Colville, Washington.

Creepy. I've been to Colville. And you can't tell who's a hater by looking.

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:41:39pm

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It goes with the belief that no matter what one does on earth, if you don't believe in Jesus the same way they do, you're going to burn in hellfire for eternity.

But Newt's a Catholic. Worse, he did it on purpose.

87 Locker  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:42:06pm

re: #84 ggt

Bonus for the Demolition Man quote.

88 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:42:34pm

It's been a good day in the courts...
Brothers Sentenced for Roles in NC Terror Plot

Zakariya Boyd, 22, was sentenced to nine years in federal prison and Dylan Boyd, 25, was sentenced to eight years by U.S. District Judge Louise Flanagan. Each had pleaded guilty to conspiracy to provide support to terrorists, which carried a maximum of 15 years in prison and $250,000 fine. Both received lesser sentences after cooperating with prosecutors, including credit for the jail time already served since their arrests in July 2009.

Jury finds man guilty of aiding al Qaeda

A jury on Tuesday found a Massachusetts man guilty of supporting al Qaeda by translating Arabic messages and supporting militants through traveling to Yemen for terrorism training.

Tarek Mehanna, 29, was found guilty on all seven counts against him and faces the possibility of life in prison.

89 recusancy  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:44:15pm

re: #82 Simply Sarah

No one that understand the first thing about the Internet and isn't in the pocket of an industry with huge amounts of money invested in outdated models they refuse to change thinks SOPA would be anything less than a disaster.

I'm deeply disappointed in Debbie Wasserman Schultz for co sponsoring it.

90 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:44:29pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

But Newt's a Catholic. Worse, he did it on purpose.

I know. A friend's wife converted to Catholism a while back to be more like her husband's family. Everyone, including her husband's family just shook their head and asked "Why?". If you aren't born into it, you DON'T HAVE TO!!!!

:)

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:46:34pm

No updings for #80? I thought it was one of my best.

:(

92 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:46:39pm

re: #90 ggt

I know. A friend's wife converted to Catholism a while back to be more like her husband's family. Everyone, including her husband's family just shook their head and asked "Why?". If you aren't born into it, you DON'T HAVE TO!!!

:)

Join the Sith.
Get a free cookie, zap some ewoks.
Fun for the whole family!

94 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:47:26pm

re: #80 ggt

Wait! We were always told it was hamsters???

Image: cat-nap-computer-crash-pussy-kitten-sleep-lg-keyboard-funny.jpg

95 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:47:38pm

Liers to the Left of me
Hyperbole to the Right,

or is it the other way around?

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:47:58pm

re: #94 Varek Raith

Image: cat-nap-computer-crash-pussy-kitten-sleep-lg-keyboard-funny.jpg

It's sooooo warm and it smells like you!

97 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:48:19pm

re: #92 Varek Raith

Join the Sith.
Get a free cookie, zap some ewoks.
Fun for the whole family!

Xenos Heretics.

98 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:48:40pm

re: #90 ggt

I know. A friend's wife converted to Catholism a while back to be more like her husband's family. Everyone, including her husband's family just shook their head and asked "Why?". If you aren't born into it, you DON'T HAVE TO!!!

:)

When I was being raised Catholic, I think they told me only those baptized in the Catholic Church would be going to heaven. Might have been some ignorant CCD teacher, rather than an expert.

99 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:48:55pm

re: #92 Varek Raith

Join the Sith.
Get a free cookie, zap some ewoks.
Fun for the whole family!

Zap Ewoks?

Really?

100 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:49:18pm

re: #97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Xenos Heretics.

Take your power sword and shove it where the sun don't shine.
:P

101 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:49:46pm

re: #99 ggt

Zap Ewoks?

Really?

Well, shoot towards them anyways. Not like they'll hit anything.

102 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:50:16pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

When I was being raised Catholic, I think they told me only those baptized in the Catholic Church would be going to heaven. Might have been some ignorant CCD teacher, rather than an expert.

Well, I think that is common thought.

I don't know if the Vatican has an official tome on it or not.

Probably had something to do with money at one time.

103 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:50:37pm

re: #100 Varek Raith

Take your power sword and shove it where the sun don't shine.
:P

You're just jealous that Inquisitors use their powers effectively.

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:50:46pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, shoot towards them anyways. Not like they'll hit anything.

Well, then forget it.

I want to see their fur fly!

105 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:51:35pm

Internet is sllllooowww...

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:52:18pm

re: #105 Varek Raith

Internet is slllooowww...

Are you sure it's the internet?

:0

107 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:52:29pm

re: #105 Varek Raith

Internet is slllooowww...

My brain huuurrrtttsss.

108 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:53:24pm

re: #106 ggt

Are you sure it's the internet?

:0

Probably the router. Or Verizon. There's construction up the road and they're awfully good a hitting lines, cable and gas.
;)

109 sunnygal  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:53:39pm
It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that Politifact isn’t really checking facts here, but trying for a phony kind of “balance” to avoid being accused of partisan bias — because while it’s true that dishonesty is often practiced on both sides of America’s political process, in the Obama era there’s far more of it coming from the right.

Truth or facts seem to have a liberal bias.

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:53:57pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

Probably the router. Or Verizon. There's construction up the road and they're awfully good a hitting lines, cable and gas.
;)

Yeah, when we first moved in our neighborhood there was construction going on everywhere. Our power went out at least once a week.

111 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:55:09pm

re: #110 ggt

Yeah, when we first moved in our neighborhood there was construction going on everywhere. Our power went out at least once a week.

I don't think the city has updated their maps for that particular area.
Everyone hits some kind of line up there.

112 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:55:15pm

re: #110 ggt

Yeah, when we first moved in our neighborhood there was construction going on everywhere. Our power went out at least once a week.

Could have been worse, you could have been measuring that in the number of times the power was on in a week.

113 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:55:43pm

I don't think I've ever been more dissapointed with the citizenry than I have been since Obama took office.

Xenophobia is sad thing when seen up close.

114 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:56:07pm

re: #57 Charles

I do agree the 'Lie of the Year" is a misfire once compared as you did. But I could not call those ads the truth either. I admit what sticks in my craw is the TV ads with the old folks. Gets me every time, GOP, or DNC or whoever. The only dot org that should feature elders might be AARP. I'm also biased by the elder situation my wife and I face like many of us with elder parents.

Pencil PS

Thanks for room to debate, I'd hate to be on the opposite side of the host anywhere else I can think of.

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:56:38pm

re: #112 Simply Sarah

Could have been worse, you could have been measuring that in the number of times the power was on in a week.

True, but we got charged full price regardless.

But, you are right, it could almost always be worse. We could have to turn a crank to get the TV to work.

116 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:57:01pm

re: #96 ggt

It's sooo warm and it smells like you!

I can remember when cats were solar powered.

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:57:44pm

re: #116 b_sharp

I can remember when cats were solar powered.

Wow, you are old!

:0

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:58:07pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

When I was being raised Catholic, I think they told me only those baptized in the Catholic Church would be going to heaven. Might have been some ignorant CCD teacher, rather than an expert.

That's not the current teaching of the church, no. When was this?

119 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:58:21pm

re: #109 sunnygal

Truth or facts seem to have a liberal bias.

Crocoducks on the other hand...

120 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:59:28pm

re: #114 Rightwingconspirator

I do agree the 'Lie of the Year" is a misfire once compared as you did. But I could not call those ads the truth either. I admit what sticks in my craw is the TV ads with the old folks. Gets me every time, GOP, or DNC or whoever. The only dot org that should feature elders might be AARP. I'm also biased by the elder situation my wife and I face like many of us with elder parents.

Pencil PS

Thanks for room to debate, I'd hate to be on the opposite side of the host anywhere else I can think of.

Well, again, the issue is they aren't really talking about specific ads with the headline they're using.

121 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 1:59:36pm

re: #115 ggt

True, but we got charged full price regardless.

But, you are right, it could almost always be worse. We could have to turn a crank to get the TV to work.

There are far too many cranks on TV.

122 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:00:03pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not the current teaching of the church, no. When was this?

The early 70's.

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:00:09pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not the current teaching of the church, no. When was this?

I still hear it from other Catholics.

It's a meme -- our brand is better than yours. It's the only one that counts.

Uninformed haters and fear mongers mostly.

124 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:01:03pm

BBL.

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:02:50pm

Shameless Pages Plug to BEG FOR ACTION.

Please share, tweet, fb or email, but most of all tell your Congress Critters what you think.

THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM AND THE TOP OF MY HEART!

126 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:04:53pm

re: #125 ggt

Shameless Pages Plug to BEG FOR ACTION.

Please share, tweet, fb or email, but most of all tell your Congress Critters what you think.

THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM AND THE TOP OF MY HEART!

Will do. Just wish I felt any hope of success on this. All I can do is try, I guess.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:05:29pm

re: #122 wrenchwench

The early 70's.

Eh, pre-Vatican II type hanging on and being cranky, that's my bet.

128 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:07:38pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, pre-Vatican II type hanging on and being cranky, that's my bet.

Back before the internet, priests could say whatever they wanted to keep parishioners compliant and donating.

129 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:10:02pm

re: #128 ggt

Back before the internet translation of the bible into the local language, priests could say whatever they wanted to keep parishioners compliant and donating.

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:10:26pm

I never thought I'd say this, but I am so tired of spending money.

I feel like I have shopped and shopped and I still have 3 gift cards to purchase and wrap AND a package to mail.

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:10:55pm

re: #129 EmmmieG

both really.

I mean, what Catholic reads the Bible?

132 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:11:48pm

Coming Full Circle: FEMA Camp Theory Gains Traction on Far Left

This from the SPLC. I mentioned noticing this on Twitter a couple of days ago.

133 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:12:58pm

Insane Right-Wing Article of the Day

Renew America’s Sher Zieve appears to be taking “Poe’s Law” to a whole new level. Zieve, who has wondered whether President Obama is a demon and the Beast of the Book of Revelation intent on starting a dictatorship by taking control of the media, writes today that Obama is bent on turning America “into full-fledged Marxist Communo-Fascist elitist-ruled Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State”:

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:13:06pm

re: #132 Gus 802

Coming Full Circle: FEMA Camp Theory Gains Traction on Far Left

This from the SPLC. I mentioned noticing this on Twitter a couple of days ago.

We're doomed.

135 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:14:03pm

It's surprising how pickled one can get on a small glass of Irish cream. My neighbors were leaving to visit the kids and grandkids for the holidays and a little while ago she came over with a bottle of Sean's as a gift while hubby finished loading the car. Didn't have any coffee made (the way I usually enjoy the liqueur - Sunday brunch thing) so we toasted with a small glass each of straight Irish cream.

Jeez, I just forgot my dog's name. I'm like "Here, um... you.. dog... no, you, the furry one..."

Off to make coffee...

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:14:38pm

re: #135 allegro

It's surprising how pickled one can get on a small glass of Irish cream. My neighbors were leaving to visit the kids and grandkids for the holidays and a little while ago she came over with a bottle of Sean's as a gift while hubby finished loading the car. Didn't have any coffee made (the way I usually enjoy the liqueur - Sunday brunch thing) so we toasted with a small glass each of straight Irish cream.

Jeez, I just forgot my dog's name. I'm like "Here, um... you.. dog... no, you, the furry one..."

Off to make coffee...

Don't drink much?

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:16:35pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“into full-fledged Marxist Communo-Fascist elitist-ruled Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State”:

He forgot heathen, gravel worshippers, dark-skinned, & athiests.

138 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:16:45pm

re: #134 ggt

We're doomed.

Here ya' go.

Internment / Resettlement Specialist (31E)

That should freak 'em out! Found that link from a Tweet by some self described "conservative Christian". She's freaking out!

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:16:48pm

bbl

140 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:17:51pm

re: #138 Gus 802

Here ya' go.

Internment / Resettlement Specialist (31E)

That should freak 'em out! Found that link from a Tweet by some self described "conservative Christian". She's freaking out!

That looks like "Military Prison Guard."

141 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:18:00pm

re: #136 ggt

Don't drink much?

Heh. I'm Irish. We drink. For some reason this stuff has kicked my brain cells about and has me giggling.

142 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:18:18pm

re: #140 EmmmieG

That looks like "Military Prison Guard."

Yep. Pretty much.

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:22:54pm

re: #135 allegro

It's surprising how pickled one you can get on a small glass of Irish cream.

Alcoholism: Ur doin it rong.

144 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:27:18pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, pre-Vatican II type hanging on and being cranky, that's my bet.

So now is it: if you're not born to it, you can go to heaven, but if you are and you renounce it, you're going to hell?

145 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:29:03pm

With regards to the PolitiFact story you might want to read this:

Dems brush off PolitiFact finding
By Greg Sargent

There’s probably no organization in Washington that has been more aggressive in making the case that Republicans want to “end Medicare” than the DCCC. And so, when PolitiFact declared that claim its “Lie of the Year” today, Republicans suggested that the DCCC might now have a tough time making it in ads against vulnerable House Republicans who voted for the Paul Ryan plan.

[...]

If you define Medicare by its traditional function — guaranteeing coverage via single payer — then the GOP plan would end Medicare. But if you define Medicare more loosely, as a program designed to make sure seniors get some form of coverage — and see the single-payer and guaranteed-essential-care elements as simply means to that general end that are not central to the program’s reason for being — then the GOP plan would not completely end Medicare.

It seems clear that the former definition is far more in sync with the spirit of the program, as it was originally conceived. But the key point is that even if you agree with the latter interpretation, the Dem claim still isn’t a “lie.” It’s a difference of interpretation. You can’t prove that the former definition of what makes Medicare what we think of as Medicare is inaccurate or even all that unreasonable. And if you can’t disprove the Dem definition of Medicare, which is the logical basis for the claim that the GOP would end it, then you can’t prove definitively that Dems are “lying.”

You can argue that their definition of the program and their resultant interpretation of the facts are wrongheaded. But you can’t prove that they’re wrong. So there’s no basis for claiming definitively that Dems told a factual falsehood, let alone the “Lie of the Year.”

But since Dems are brushing off Politifact’s finding, all this may be moot in any case.

146 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:30:38pm

Oh brother...

[Link: twitter.com...]

147 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:30:48pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Said State has been meticulously planned over, at least, decades and is now being forcefully implemented against We-the-People who seem to have been replaced by "We-the-Sheeple."

---

This is how all 'leaders' of the hard-Left feel and it is also what they believe — they are the rulers (aka slave masters) and we are supposed to be their willing and subservient vassals.

Bush Jr., Bush Sr., and perhaps even Reagan... now members of the 'hard-Left'. I should have known...
/

148 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:31:38pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Insane Right-Wing Article of the Day

Obama is bent on turning America “into full-fledged Marxist Communo-Fascist elitist-ruled Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State”:

Well, really, would you want your Marxist Communo-Fascist elitist-ruled Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State to be half-fledged?

149 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:32:26pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Enlisted gays to Roseanne: Ur not halping, bich!

150 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:32:48pm

I think I'm going to have to readjust some things with my Twitter following and followers.

151 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:33:18pm

re: #149 Slumbering Behemoth

Enlisted gays to Roseanne: Ur not halping, bich!

Here ya go!

[Link: twitter.com...]

152 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:34:36pm

Boom!

[Link: twitter.com...]

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:34:44pm

re: #150 Gus 802

Just post this and be done with it.

re: #151 Gus 802

Word!

154 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:35:14pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Also: Scott Olsen Drums Up Support for Bradley Manning

155 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:35:23pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

Just post this and be done with it.

re: #151 Gus 802

Word!

They can unfollow me I don't care. Assholes.

156 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:35:56pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Also: Scott Olsen Drums Up Support for Bradley Manning

What a loser.

157 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:38:41pm

Speaking of nuts, lies and conspiracy theories...

Nonprofit Wants to Know if CIA Is Responsible for Evicting Occupy Camps
I really don't think OWS is a healthy movement for the left.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:39:18pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

"It pains me to think that fellow Marines were ordered to effectively torture a soldier who, by blowing the whistle on the killing of innocent civilians in Iraq, helped end that war".

I'm sorry that Olsen got popped with a flashbang when he was already out cold, that was just fucked up and should not have happened. But that quote is just fucking stupid.

159 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:41:03pm

re: #158 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm sorry that Olsen got popped with a flashbang when he was already out cold, that was just fucked up and should not have happened. But that quote is just fucking stupid.

He's a member of Veterans for Peace so it's no surprise that he's more than a little nutty.

160 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:41:26pm

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Speaking of nuts, lies and conspiracy theories...

Nonprofit Wants to Know if CIA Is Responsible for Evicting Occupy Camps
I really don't think OWS is a healthy movement for the left.

What next? Alex Jones? 9/11 was an inside job redux? Damn. It's like the 2000s all over again with this crowd. Feck it. I give up. Crazies on the left and crazies on the right. Fuck 'em all!

161 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:41:48pm

re: #160 Gus 802

What next? Alex Jones? 9/11 was an inside job redux? Damn. It's like the 2000s all over again with this crowd. Feck it. I give up. Crazies on the left and crazies on the right. Fuck 'em all!

NO U
:P

162 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:42:23pm

The Bradley Manning Cult™

163 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:42:56pm

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

Alcoholism: Ur doin it rong.

ROFL, my neighbors seem to agree. The guy next door just brought me a bottle of Bacardi Anejo. I was cooking out the other night and invited him to join us. We had a few rum & cokes and he wanted to say thanks.

Such a day. Am I living right, or what?

164 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:44:37pm

re: #163 allegro

Such a day. Am I living right, or what?

That depends. Are you praying to Jesus 5 times a day?

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:44:44pm

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Speaking of nuts, lies and conspiracy theories...

Nonprofit Wants to Know if CIA Is Responsible for Evicting Occupy Camps
I really don't think OWS is a healthy movement for the left.

I'm pretty sure that's the response I would get if I demanded they release documents about why they're sending signals to Alpha Centauri through my fillings.

166 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:45:36pm

re: #164 prononymous

That depends. Are you praying to Jesus 5 times a day?

Oh, fuck no. But if he'll bring me Irish Cream and Bacardi Anejo I might consider it.

167 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:45:43pm

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm pretty sure that's the response I would get if I demanded they release documents about why they're sending signals to Alpha Centaura through my fillings.

It's Beta Centauri!!!
:P

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:47:29pm

re: #167 Varek Raith

It's Beta Centauri!!!
:P

Let me guess. Someone at Occupy Orion told you that.

169 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:48:30pm

re: #163 allegro

I'd be jealous, but I don't care for rum or cream liqueur. Cheap beer and expensive tequila are my thing.

170 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:51:07pm

re: #160 Gus 802

What next? Alex Jones? 9/11 was an inside job redux? Damn. It's like the 2000s all over again with this crowd. Feck it. I give up. Crazies on the left and crazies on the right. Fuck 'em all!

It's been really disheartening to me too.

171 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:51:27pm

re: #166 allegro

Oh, fuck no. But if he'll bring me Irish Cream and Bacardi Anejo I might consider it.

Jesus brings the drinks. But Shiva brings the cannabis.

Choices, choices. This is a tough one.

Oh wait, if I go Hindu I get to believe in Jesus too. Win!

172 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:51:44pm

re: #169 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd be jealous, but I don't care for rum or cream liqueur. Cheap beer and expensive tequila are my thing.

Oooh, Patron and fresh limes. *looking about at my other neighbors to see if anyone will show up with that*

173 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:51:55pm

re: #169 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd be jealous, but I don't care for rum or cream liqueur. Cheap beer and expensive tequila are my thing.

What t' hell kind o' pirate be you?!?!

174 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:52:47pm

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Your concern is noted.

175 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:53:36pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

What t' hell kind o' pirate be you?!?!

Mexican, apparently. My folks will be surprised.

176 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:54:05pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

It's been really disheartening to me too.

I need a stiff drink.

177 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:55:46pm

Prayers to the brave women of Egypt.

178 lgffan  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:56:28pm

I think that they all lie. Depending on who is in power helps to determine who lies most vociferously. When Bush (repubs) was in power, the left lied most, with Obama (dems) in power, the right lies most. They are all a bunch of stinking liars. If they were employees, they'd all be fired - every stinking senator, representative and we would be replacing our executives with competent one, 'cept there ain't no competent "political executives".
Just sayin'

179 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:58:05pm

re: #178 lgffan

I think that they all lie. Depending on who is in power helps to determine who lies most vociferously. When Bush (repubs) was in power, the left lied most, with Obama (dems) in power, the right lies most. They are all a bunch of stinking liars. If they were employees, they'd all be fired - every stinking senator, representative and we would be replacing our executives with competent one, 'cept there ain't no competent "political executives".
Just sayin'

Having a bad day?

180 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:59:15pm

re: #176 Gus 802

I need a stiff drink.

Cheers!

181 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 2:59:22pm

re: #176 Gus 802

re: #170 Killgore Trout

It's been really disheartening to me too.

I need a stiff drink.

It's kind of heartwarming to see you two crying on each other's shoulders, sort of.

182 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:00:00pm

re: #36 darthstar

Felu mele iki bobo.

Okay I Googled that just for fun. Guess what I found? I think we'll both get a laugh...

Daily Kos: AK-Sen: Inouye rallies to Stevens' defense
www.dailykos.com/.../-AK-Sen:-Inouye-rallies-to-Stevens-defense-
Inouye: Felu-mele iki bobo. by darthstar, Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:05 AM PDT (5+ / 0-). Huh? by Deltones, Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:20 AM PDT (6+ / 0-) ...

183 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:00:01pm

re: #181 wrenchwench

I need a stiff drink.

It's kind of heartwarming to see you two crying on each other's shoulders, sort of.

I'll go get the Johnny Walker Black. ;)

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:00:09pm

re: #176 Gus 802

I need a stiff drink.

Cheers. :sigh:

185 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:00:58pm

re: #181 wrenchwench

Don't ask, don't tell.
/

186 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:01:05pm

re: #184 Slumbering Behemoth

Cheers. :sigh:

Crap. You had to get me going again didn't ya! Damn it all to hell.

[Grabs tissues.]

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:01:09pm

re: #171 prononymous

Jesus brings the drinks. But Shiva brings the cannabis.

Choices, choices. This is a tough one.

Oh wait, if I go Hindu I get to believe in Jesus too. Win!

There's a wonderful Indian-American coming-of-age story in which the heroine staggers home stoned, expecting to be killed by her immigrant parents, only to have her mother exclaim that she smells like a hemp harvest celebration at home, and boy, does that take her back...

188 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:02:14pm

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Let's be naughty and save Santa the trip

189 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:02:59pm

re: #188 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Let's be naughty and save Santa the trip

I already blew up Santa and his workshop.
Damn elves.

190 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:03:17pm

re: #188 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
Let's be naughty and save Santa the trip

LOL!

Hi Hoosier. Happy Holidays and all that.

191 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:03:40pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Sorry. I'd tell you of the Behemoth clan's woes over the last few months if I thought it would help, but it wouldn't. That, and I tend to kind of keep that kind of stuff off this forum.

192 andres  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:05:27pm

re: #172 allegro

Oooh, Patron and fresh limes. *looking about at my other neighbors to see if anyone will show up with that*

I think those neighbors are with the "Give the Dean a Huge Bag of Money Goblin".

:P

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:06:15pm

re: #189 Varek Raith

I already blew up Santa and his workshop.
Damn elves.

That ain't murder. That there is a mercy killing.

You were doin' 'em a favor.

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:06:47pm

re: #160 Gus 802

What next? Alex Jones? 9/11 was an inside job redux? Damn. It's like the 2000s all over again with this crowd. Feck it. I give up. Crazies on the left and crazies on the right. Fuck 'em all!

Is this something new, or are we missing sarc tags, or did I miss a turn somewhere?

195 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:07:47pm

re: #191 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry. I'd tell you of the Behemoth clan's woes over the last few months if I thought it would help, but it wouldn't. That, and I tend to kind of keep that kind of stuff off this forum.

At least you have a living clan. Be grateful. Seriously.

196 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:09:26pm

re: #195 allegro

Getting smaller by the year, but I guess you gotta count your blessings.

197 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:09:45pm

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

Is this something new, or are we missing sarc tags, or did I miss a turn somewhere?

Oh. They've jumped the shark with Bradley Manning, SOPA, and NDAA. They've all gone back to their usual Indymedia weirdness. It's not about economic justice anymore and has become this over-reaching and all encompassing movement about this, that, and some other thing. It's not necessarily the topic of SOPA and NDAA but the hysteria that many are framing it under including NWO and Infowars type conspiracy theories. Martial law! It's just too much especially the frequent support of that creep Bradley Manning.

198 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:11:52pm

re: #176 Gus 802

I need a stiff drink.

re: #170 Killgore Trout

It is a strange day. I was drinking a bit much Tito's last night after a hard end of day. Enough that I'm not drinking any tonight. It seems all the political ground has become shifty quicksand kinda. Factcheck and Politifact in agreement on the main topic but apparently wrong. We have the Dems fighting to continue a tax cut. We have the GOP putting up shill after shill for the primary. Dragon_Lady got cussed out c word and all in a parking lot today for no good reason apart from someone's holiday stresses.

199 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:12:05pm

re: #197 Gus 802

Oh. They've jumped the shark with Bradley Manning, SOPA, and NDAA. They've all gone back to their usual Indymedia weirdness. It's not about economic justice anymore and has become this over-reaching and all encompassing movement about this, that, and some other thing. It's not necessarily the topic of SOPA and NDAA but the hysteria that many are framing it under including NWO and Infowars type conspiracy theories. Martial law! It's just too much especially the frequent support of that creep Bradley Manning.

YOU FORGOT THE CHEMTRAILS!!!!

200 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:13:09pm

re: #197 Gus 802

Oh. They've jumped the shark with Bradley Manning, SOPA, and NDAA. They've all gone back to their usual Indymedia weirdness. It's not about economic justice anymore and has become this over-reaching and all encompassing movement about this, that, and some other thing. It's not necessarily the topic of SOPA and NDAA but the hysteria that many are framing it under including NWO and Infowars type conspiracy theories. Martial law! It's just too much especially the frequent support of that creep Bradley Manning.

Agreed. Sad.

201 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:13:10pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

It's been really disheartening to me too.

But but remember... it's just the fringe! You MBF playing tool!!1!ELEVENTY

I wish I could say that seriously rather than mumble 'I told you so' under my breath to some of the people I know here and meat-world.

202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:13:14pm

re: #195 allegro

On the plus side, I didn't put turned pintos in my chorizo this morning, so I got to eat my tacos. Yay!

203 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:14:13pm

So basically... it's not about the 99 percent. There's no way that they represent the 99 percent. Granted, they have a right to protest within legal grounds including having opinions I am opposed with such as their support of Manning. But it's a lie for people to see "these are the 99 percent."

204 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:14:58pm

re: #202 Slumbering Behemoth

On the plus side, I didn't put turned pintos in my chorizo this morning, so I got to eat my tacos. Yay!

A real Mexican pirate would have eaten the turned pintos+chorizo anyway. >:|

205 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:15:40pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

YOU FORGOT THE CHEMTRAILS!!!

Let me see what I can cough up!

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:15:53pm

re: #198 Rightwingconspirator

Dragon_Lady got cussed out c word and all in a parking lot today for no good reason apart from someone's holiday stresses.

Not in front of you, I hope.

207 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:17:12pm

re: #202 Slumbering Behemoth

On the plus side, I didn't put turned pintos in my chorizo this morning, so I got to eat my tacos. Yay!

Once I found out what chorizo was it somehow never tasted the same. Well, mostly it didn't taste the same cuz ewww so I don't eat it anymore... on purpose anyway.

208 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:17:32pm

re: #204 prononymous

A real Mexican pirate would have eaten the turned pintos+chorizo anyway. >:|

I'm not a real Mexican, though. I think just my stomach and taste-buds are. And maybe some other parts I won't mention.

209 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:18:24pm

re: #203 Gus 802

So basically... it's not about the 99 percent. There's no way that they represent the 99 percent. Granted, they have a right to protest within legal grounds including having opinions I am opposed with such as their support of Manning. But it's a lie for people to see "these are the 99 percent."

Which if I remember correctly, I said this almost verbatim a couple months ago and got riddled with down dings and dogpiled on like Killgore was.

210 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:20:18pm

re: #207 allegro

Heh. Chorizo got grandfathered in because, back in the day, I ate it without know what was in it. Now that I know, I just don't care, 'cuz it tastes sooo damn good.

211 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:20:39pm

re: #210 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. Chorizo got grandfathered in because, back in the day, I ate it without know what was in it. Now that I know, I just don't care, 'cuz it tastes sooo damn good.

What's in it?

212 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:20:51pm

re: #208 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm not a real Mexican, though. I think just my stomach and taste-buds are. And maybe some other parts I won't mention.

It's probably for the best. Mexican Pirates don't have long lives...

213 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:21:00pm

re: #209 ArchangelMichael

Which if I remember correctly, I said this almost verbatim a couple months ago and got riddled with down dings and dogpiled on like Killgore was.

Did ya? Sorry if I took part. So hey. Either I'm the canary in the coal mine or I'm eating some crow! ;)

214 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:21:45pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

What's in it?

Cheek meat and salivary glands. Tasty, tasty cheek meat and salivary glands.

215 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:22:16pm

re: #214 Slumbering Behemoth

Cheek meat and salivary glands. Tasty, tasty cheek meat and salivary glands.

Oh.
Not as bad as I was expecting.

216 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:22:57pm

re: #206 Slumbering Behemoth

Not in front of you, I hope.

No I heard all about it via text and a talk. But these things have to be dealt with from time to time. If someone got mad enough to assault either of us it would certainly ruin the holiday for all involved to have done real damage to another person. D_L wisely drove off after a minimum of harsh language.

217 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:23:09pm

re: #209 ArchangelMichael

Not to worry. Swing by at the right time of day with something like that and you can still feel the love dogpile.

218 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:23:44pm

re: #209 ArchangelMichael

Which if I remember correctly, I said this almost verbatim a couple months ago and got riddled with down dings and dogpiled on like Killgore was.

It's ok. I certainly took a lot of abuse. It's still ongoing depending on who's around. Regardless of who changes their mind I still feel I took the right stand and I think it's important to be gracious to those who change their minds. No need to rub it in.

219 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:23:44pm

re: #214 Slumbering Behemoth

Cheek meat? That's not so bad. I eat it on a regular basis.

*ouch*

220 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:24:44pm

re: #217 Slumbering Behemoth

Not to worry. Swing by at the right time of day with something like that and you can still feel the love dogpile.

Dog Pile Afternoon...

Wasn't Al Pacino in that?

221 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:25:04pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

It's ok. I certainly took a lot of abuse. It's still ongoing depending on who's around. Regardless of who changes their mind I still feel I took the right stand and I think it's important to be gracious to those who change their minds. No need to rub it in.

I only downed you when you were getting all creepy with joy in pepper spraying and accusing some here of supporting stabbings and rapes.
;)

222 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:26:14pm

re: #221 Varek Raith

I only downed you when you were getting all creepy with joy in pepper spaying and accusing some here of supporting stabbings and rapes.
;)

Don't forget the spitting and pooping.

223 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:26:14pm

I see they also got Mumia Abu-Jamal to support them and even noted it on their site. Again, that's cool if you want to support Mumia. It's a free country. But don't expect the other folks in that 99 percent to support you with that kind of endorsement.

224 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:26:44pm

re: #215 Varek Raith

Yeah, typical sausage grinder material. There is a lot of stuff I definitely will not eat willingly. Liver.

However, stranded somewhere with scarce resources, all bets are off. Just hope you don't get stranded with me.

225 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:27:50pm

re: #224 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, typical sausage grinder material. There is a lot of stuff I definitely will not eat willingly. Liver.

However, stranded somewhere with scarce resources, all bets are off. Just hope you don't get stranded with me.

Sorry man, I'd win in a fight.
:P

226 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:28:53pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Don't forget the spitting and pooping.

You should see a doctor about that.
XD

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:29:13pm

re: #205 Gus 802

Let me see what I can cough up!

Who knew it was this easy?

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:29:32pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

Sorry man, I'd win in a fight.
:P

This is how I know you'd be Behemoth food. You're foolish enough to assume there'd be a fight.

229 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:32:05pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Don't forget the spitting and pooping.

Hey KT..What is the status on the greenhouse?
Hope today finds you well..

230 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:32:09pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

Who knew it was this easy?

My head hurts.

231 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:32:18pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

Who knew it was this easy?

Yeesh. It's been a while since I've really looked into any of this. They've jumped the shark big time. It's like freaking Rense in there.

232 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:33:03pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

YOU FORGOT THE CHEMTRAILS!!!

Ah, the fun I had the other day when I went out to see who was freaking out about NDAA and I found the lady who wanted us to un-brainwash ourselves and discover that there is aluminum and ammonia in our shampoo.

Not that I'm sure what we are supposed to do with this information.

233 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:33:40pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

This is how I know you'd be Behemoth food. You're foolish enough to assume there'd be a fight.

So says the man without a time machine.
Or omni-dimensional powers.

234 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:35:15pm

SB: "Varek! Look, dude! A rabbit. We're gonna eat good tonight!"

VR: "A rabbit?!?! Where, wh-"
:thump: :thump: :squish:

SB: "Well, I'll eat good tonight anyway".

235 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:35:59pm

I’ve been trying to think of the best analogy for this. How about this one: imagine someone owns a Ferrari. It’s expensive and drives beautifully, and the owner desperately wants to keep his car intact. Now imagine I took the car away, removed the metallic badge off the trunk that says “Ferrari,” I stuck it on a golf cart, and I handed the owner the keys.

“Where’s my Ferrari?” the owner would ask.

“It’s right here,” I’d respond. “This has four wheels, a steering wheel, and pedals, and it says ‘Ferrari’ right there on the back.”

"but it's not a ferrari. it has practically no horsepower and it's just a little piece of crap with canvas for a roof"

"but it will free you from the problems caused by your expensive, powerful old ferrari - you'll really be better off!"

"um, no i won't. you're just lying, you know"

"(sigh...) you democrats just don't understand automotive theory"

236 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:36:35pm

re: #151 Gus 802

Here ya go!

[Link: twitter.com...]

Why are you blocking me on Twitter?

237 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:37:42pm

re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth

SB: "Varek! Look, dude! A rabbit. We're gonna eat good tonight!"

VR: "A rabbit?!?! Where, wh-"
:thump: :thump: :squish:

SB: "Well, I'll eat good tonight anyway".

Varek: "Nice try, that was just a shadow clone." ZZZAAPPP

238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:38:34pm

re: #237 Varek Raith

Varek: "Nice try, that was just a shadow clone." ZZZAAPPP

Aww. You wouldn't just let me eat the shadow clone? Selfish.

239 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:38:55pm

re: #236 Alouette

Why are you blocking me on Twitter?

Hey. You know how I get sometimes. I uh, uh, uh.

240 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:39:12pm

Okay got my new camera interval timer. W00T! Makes 3.6k raw file time lapse shots easy. So tonight from the 4th floor of an office downtown it's on now until dark for the late light/twilight and finally city lights. I knew that old decrepit fire escape was good for something. 1 shot every 6 seconds. Hopefully going to get something page worthy when it's finished as an ultra high def source video.

241 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:39:32pm

re: #229 HoosierHoops

Hey KT..What is the status on the greenhouse?
Hope today finds you well..

Thanks for asking. Murphy's Law kicked in and every rain delay, scheduling conflict, permit and inspection delay landing the final finish date too close to the holidays. Everything is on hold until mid January. Foundation and raised beds are poured. I've been taking my time filling the beds and laying the gravel base for my brick floor since I have plenty of time anyways.

242 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:39:50pm

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

Aww. You wouldn't just let me eat the shadow clone? Selfish.

Here, have a roasted ewok.

243 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:40:51pm

What really worries me is that there is this not-very-subtle anger from many on the left towards Obama. A lot of people oversold themselves on just how far left Obama is. So when he turns out to be a moderate they go around saying how he "isn't any better than Bush", etc.

Of course as the election nears party politics could ultimately convince many of the liberals angry with Obama to vote for him as the "lesser of two evils". But it's really hard to say. The worst case scenario is that the moderates are squeezed out by the extremes on both sides and we elect Ron Paul or some other fool.

Anyway, I have to tend to something. BBL, Lacertilians.

244 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:41:09pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Hey. You know how I get sometimes. I uh, uh, uh.

@viciousbabushka

I'm an angry granny, I have a cane and I'm not afraid to use it!

245 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:41:11pm

there were also a lot of problems discussing what was in the health care bill. i'm sure a lot of you heard one of the most common dodges: "nobody knows what's in that bill - it's too big to read"

ah, no. it's a big document but not that big

246 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:42:18pm

re: #244 Alouette

@viciousbabushka

I'm an angry granny, I have a cane and I'm not afraid to use it!

I threw a kanipshin fit and blocked a bunch of people actually. :) I'd throw a bunch of plates on the floor if I had 'em.

247 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:43:37pm

re: #243 prononymous

What really worries me is that there is this not-very-subtle anger from many on the left towards Obama. A lot of people oversold themselves on just how far left Obama is. So when he turns out to be a moderate they go around saying how he "isn't any better than Bush", etc.

this has been pissing me off quite a bit. i also hear a lot of otherwise sensible progressives complaining that obama hasn't merely overridden congress and forced them to do what he wants

248 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:43:44pm
O’REILLY: You’re a tough guy? You’re going to stare them down and say ‘Look, I’m gonna use them’? If you bomb Iran that starts World War III. You know that. They’re going to try to block Hormuz. Oil will double. The unintended consequences to the United States all across the Muslim world will be horrible. That’s what Iran is banking on.

Heh. Mitt got pwnd.

249 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:44:41pm

Pamsy is shrieking about the U.N. enforcing "sharia blasphemy law." She's always good for a giggle.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:45:46pm

re: #232 EmmmieG

Ah, the fun I had the other day when I went out to see who was freaking out about NDAA and I found the lady who wanted us to un-brainwash ourselves and discover that there is aluminum and ammonia in our shampoo.

Not that I'm sure what we are supposed to do with this information.

You're supposed to go 'no-poo', and start an alternative hair regimen. Popular versions involve just rinsing your hair out with conditioner or herbal rinses or vinegars, (once you break that shampoo addiction, your hair will readjust itself chemically and no longer look like an oil slick, they promise), or, popular these days, use baking soda, then neutralize the base with apple cider vinegar.

The people who wax hysterical about how how shampoo is GASP, a DETERGENT don't seem to mind that baking soda is essentially doing the same thing to your hair a lye-based relaxant would, and will trash it good and proper if you don't neutralize it right quick with an acid.

Also, sodium lauryl sulfate will NOT kill you.

251 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:45:53pm

re: #249 Alouette

Pamsy is shrieking about the U.N. enforcing "sharia blasphemy law." She's always good for a giggle.

Shariah giggle???

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:46:28pm

re: #242 Varek Raith

Here, have a roasted ewok.

Ah, an accord. And a tasty one at that. Huzzah!

253 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:47:17pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

Heh. Mitt got pwnd.

O'Reilly said that?

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:47:38pm

re: #247 engineer dog

this has been pissing me off quite a bit. i also hear a lot of otherwise sensible progressives complaining that obama hasn't merely overridden congress and forced them to do what he wants

We were supposed to have our revenge! WHERE IS OUR REVENGE???

//Actually, I think the Republican candidates are up against a similar feeling, post Obama and Tea Party, and are trying to cater to it, without actually having to promise they'll shoot individual members of other branches of government.

255 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:47:43pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Insane Right-Wing Article of the Day

Yeesh...

256 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:48:08pm

re: #253 Gus 802

O'Reilly said that?

Yep.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

257 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:48:29pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

You're supposed to go 'no-poo', and start an alternative hair regimen. Popular versions involve just rinsing your hair out with conditioner or herbal rinses or vinegars, (once you break that shampoo addiction, your hair will readjust itself chemically and no longer look like an oil slick, they promise), or, popular these days, use baking soda, then neutralize the base with apple cider vinegar.

The people who wax hysterical about how how shampoo is GASP, a DETERGENT don't seem to mind that baking soda is essentially doing the same thing to your hair a lye-based relaxant would, and will trash it good and proper if you don't neutralize it right quick with an acid.

Also, sodium lauryl sulfate will NOT kill you.

Right now The Princess has fallen into this, and I am gutting my way through it. Before long, she and I will have a talk involving the words "immiscible" and "surfactant." At the moment I am wincing hard and trying not to look. It would help if I had control of my own curly hair, but I don't, so I'm not much of an authority.

258 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:48:50pm

re: #253 Gus 802

O'Reilly said that?

He makes some sense from time to time. Has to keep us on our toes.

259 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:49:12pm

re: #255 talon_262

Yeesh...

The effect is better in German:

Communio elitären marxistisch-faschistischen islamischen regierten Drogenkartell Narco / NS-Staat

260 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:49:26pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandma used lemon juice when she was young. Not 'cuz she was a granola-kook, but because that's all she had.

261 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:49:31pm

re: #259 Gus 802

The effect is better in German:

Communio elitären marxistisch-faschistischen islamischen regierten Drogenkartell Narco / NS-Staat

ICH BIN EIN BERLINER!

262 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:50:23pm

re: #247 engineer dog

this has been pissing me off quite a bit. i also hear a lot of otherwise sensible progressives complaining that obama hasn't merely overridden congress and forced them to do what he wants

Well, my issue is mostly that I don't feel Obama has pushed back hard enough on some issues and has handled others badly. Obviously, I know his options for doing much of anything are rather limited right now.

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:51:13pm

re: #257 EmmmieG

Right now The Princess has fallen into this, and I am gutting my way through it. Before long, she and I will have a talk involving the words "immiscible" and "surfactant." At the moment I am wincing hard and trying not to look. It would help if I had control of my own curly hair, but I don't, so I'm not much of an authority.

As long as you don't just use the baking soda and leave it in, none of this will harm you, it just irritates me no end when people act sanctimonious about it.

264 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:51:16pm

re: #257 EmmmieG

Right now The Princess has fallen into this, and I am gutting my way through it. Before long, she and I will have a talk involving the words "immiscible" and "surfactant." At the moment I am wincing hard and trying not to look. It would help if I had control of my own curly hair, but I don't, so I'm not much of an authority.

Where are the Breck twins when we need 'em?

265 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:51:58pm

Help me! Someone is watching Judge Judy. Not me.

266 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:51:59pm

What in the world are yall talking about???

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:52:17pm

re: #260 Slumbering Behemoth

My grandma used lemon juice when she was young. Not 'cuz she was a granola-kook, but because that's all she had.

And it works. Acids, again. But I can get a bottle of Suave for under two bucks, at the CVS, and that works too.

268 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:52:35pm

re: #266 Varek Raith

What in the world are yall talking about???

Herman Cain

269 Digital Display  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:52:39pm

re: #245 engineer dog

there were also a lot of problems discussing what was in the health care bill. i'm sure a lot of you heard one of the most common dodges: "nobody knows what's in that bill - it's too big to read"

ah, no. it's a big document but not that big

Really? It is huge..If it was me I'd have released a small readable overview book of the bill..And mail it to every American.
My costs went up this year for insurance BTW..

270 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:53:01pm

re: #268 Gus 802

Herman Cain

NEIN!

271 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:53:53pm

re: #270 Varek Raith

NEIN!

"I wanted to vote for Herman Cain and all I got was this lousy Newt Gingrich t-shirt."

//

272 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:54:57pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

They didn't have Suave or CVS on the chicken farm back in the '30s. I didn't bother to ask about any other hygiene products we take for granted. Yeah, the "Good Old Days".

273 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:55:04pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Insane Right-Wing Article of the Day

Instead, it is careening at full speed — with no discernable braking — into full-fledged Marxist Communo-Fascist elitist-ruled Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State — replete with its own apparent and visible concentration camps. Said State has been meticulously planned over, at least, decades and is now being forcefully implemented against We-the-People

there was a time when this kind of thing appeared mostly in the pages of psychiatric case-histories

narco/nazis?? islamo-drug cartels??

274 Simply Sarah  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:55:46pm

re: #271 Gus 802

"I wanted to vote for Herman Cain and all I got was this lousy Newt Gingrich t-shirt."

//

Don't get too used to it. I hear it's leaving you for a younger torso.

275 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:56:20pm

re: #163 allegro

ROFL, my neighbors seem to agree. The guy next door just brought me a bottle of Bacardi Anejo. I was cooking out the other night and invited him to join us. We had a few rum & cokes and he wanted to say thanks.

Such a day. Am I living right, or what?

I don't know, is your dog understanding you?

276 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:57:04pm

re: #273 engineer dog

Instead, it is careening at full speed — with no discernable braking — into full-fledged Marxist Communo-Fascist elitist-ruled Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State — replete with its own apparent and visible concentration camps. Said State has been meticulously planned over, at least, decades and is now being forcefully implemented against We-the-People

there was a time when this kind of thing appeared mostly in the pages of psychiatric case-histories

narco/nazis?? islamo-drug cartels??

It's her again!

Image: zieve_b.jpg

278 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:58:35pm

re: #273 engineer dog

Homopedophobic Herpagonasyphilaids!!!

279 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:59:04pm

re: #276 Gus 802

It's her again!

Image: zieve_b.jpg

A wild Whatthefuckasaurus has appeared!

280 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:59:15pm

re: #269 HoosierHoops

Really? It is huge..If it was me I'd have released a small readable overview book of the bill..And mail it to every American.
My costs went up this year for insurance BTW..

i downloaded a copy of it and found it quite readable, altho not exactly small and concise. also, the number of pages is misleading since each page contains considerably less than the amount of text you find on a typical page in a paperback novel

by contrast, the "patriot" act is written in cryptic legalese, with many passages that read like this: "...in section cxxvi pp 27 of SB 2391, line 27 will be amended to read "will proceed" instead of "may proceed"..."

281 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 3:59:58pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

A wild Whatthefuckasaurus has appeared!

Looks more like a Wiggasaurus.

//

282 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:00:30pm

re: #277 Gus 802

Renew America warns that Obama is about to seize the nation via television

'Renew America' Wonders If Obama Is A Demon

Swyu oly af sa ail hdofz.

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:00:45pm

re: #281 Gus 802

Looks more like a Wiggasaurus.

//

Wiggoutasaurus.

284 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:00:54pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

Swyu oly af sa ail hdofz.

Qwert yuiop!

285 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:01:27pm

I was somewhat productive.

need a break.

What is the topic of discussion(s)?

286 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:01:43pm

re: #285 ggt

I was somewhat productive.

need a break.

What is the topic of discussion(s)?

Sher Zieve

287 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:01:54pm

re: #284 Gus 802

Qwert yuiop!

[Link: www.google.com...]
:P

288 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:02:05pm

Poe's law.

289 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:02:14pm

re: #286 Gus 802

Sher Zieve

Tiger what?

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:02:31pm

re: #288 Gus 802

Poe's law.

Raven Speak?

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:02:32pm

re: #286 Gus 802

Sher Zieve

Not to be confused with Shere Khan.

Or Shere Hite.

Or Cher.

292 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:03:48pm

re: #275 ggt

I don't know, is your dog understanding you?

He's a dog. He's understands everything, especially me.

293 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:03:57pm

re: #291 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to be confused with Shere Khan.

Or Shere Hite.

Or Cher.

Or Khan Noonien Singh.

294 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:04:28pm

re: #293 Varek Raith

Or Khan Noonien Singh.

Do it because it what YOU WISH to do!

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:04:28pm

re: #285 ggt

What is the topic of discussion(s)?

Multisyllabic, Hyper-Hyphenated, Fundie/Whacko Boogymen.

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:05:00pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

Multisyllabic, Hyper-Hyphenated, Fundie/Whacko Boogymen.

is there an acronym for that?

297 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:05:09pm

re: #292 allegro

He's a dog. He's understands everything, especially me.

i'm going to have to report him to Dog Central

he's not supposed to let on that he understands you

298 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:05:37pm

re: #296 ggt

SS,DD

(same shit, different day)

299 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:05:55pm

Speaking of FEMA camps!

Sher Zieve is Laurie Roth’s Guest: FEMA Camps Staffing Up

As our colleague Sher Zieve has related, in 2009, on the eve of the 111th Congress and the Obama Administration, criminal Congressman, Alcee Hastings introduced HR 645, the National Emergency Centers Act, for establishing FEMA emergency centers on military bases throughout the country. It was treated like a rabid squirrel, received no other sponsors, and did not pass its committee. Executive Orders and internal covert operations having become what they are, it was likely regarded as unnecessary.

Brain bleach territory.

300 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:06:03pm

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth

SS,DD

(same shit, different day)

Yeah, I thought so.

301 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:06:14pm

So out of touch that I posted my rant on a long-dead thread, I REPEAT:

Evening all. My Christmas requirements have been met. The house is back to its basic load of 2 adults and one dog. Even my Hanukkah shtick is over (we force-fed all eight gifts into one drive-by drop). Envy me ye mere mortals.

302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:06:46pm

re: #301 Decatur Deb

So out of touch that I posted my rant on a long-dead thread, I REPEAT:

Evening all. My Christmas requirements have been met. The house is back to its basic load of 2 adults and one dog. Even my Hanukkah shtick is over (we force-fed all eight gifts into one drive-by drop). Envy me ye mere mortals.

grrrrr

303 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:06:59pm

And from that same site:

Globalist authoritarians, financiers, thieves capture the neo-Marxists of the vapid left & the tycoon transnationalists of the old world right. Their goal: collapse America, rule & rape the world. Can we change course? Run with the Bound and see.
-------------
How the Two-Party Paradigm is Manipulated The Facts about GOP Presidential Candidates Tycoon Transnationalists are Co-Opting Tea Parties National Popular Vote a Ticket to Trotsky

304 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:07:39pm

re: #303 Gus 802

And from that same site:

we . are . doomed

305 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:09:11pm

re: #303 Gus 802

And from that same site:

An enterprise shadows authoritarians into the chest. Can authoritarians hazard Transnationalists ? Transnationalists demolishes authoritarians. Authoritarians elaborates within a happier fuss. Transnationalists rips the category. Another stair quibbles near a motor opinion.

306 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:09:48pm

re: #299 Gus 802

Speaking of FEMA camps!

Sher Zieve is Laurie Roth’s Guest: FEMA Camps Staffing Up

Brain bleach territory.

He didn't mention the underground lizard people, so he has no idea what he's talking about.

307 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:09:56pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

An enterprise shadows authoritarians into the chest. Can authoritarians hazard Transnationalists ? Transnationalists demolishes authoritarians. Authoritarians elaborates within a happier fuss. Transnationalists rips the category. Another stair quibbles near a motor opinion.

scissors?

308 allegro  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:10:04pm

re: #301 Decatur Deb

So out of touch that I posted my rant on a long-dead thread, I REPEAT:

Evening all. My Christmas requirements have been met. The house is back to its basic load of 2 adults and one dog. Even my Hanukkah shtick is over (we force-fed all eight gifts into one drive-by drop). Envy me ye mere mortals.

Yeah, well you haven't looked at the TV Guide for tonight yet. Steven Seagal Vs Zombies and Christmas movies. Makes me doubly glad for my neighbors getting me pickled.

309 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:10:12pm

Gee, a random paragraph generator made more sense.

310 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:10:20pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

An enterprise shadows authoritarians into the chest. Can authoritarians hazard Transnationalists ? Transnationalists demolishes authoritarians. Authoritarians elaborates within a happier fuss. Transnationalists rips the category. Another stair quibbles near a motor opinion.

I might need to be committed because of this.

311 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:10:55pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

Gee, a random paragraph generator made more sense.

Pamela Geller has met her match?

312 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:11:03pm

[Link: watchout4snakes.com...]

313 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:11:11pm

re: #301 Decatur Deb

So out of touch that I posted my rant on a long-dead thread, I REPEAT:

Evening all. My Christmas requirements have been met. The house is back to its basic load of 2 adults and one dog. Even my Hanukkah shtick is over (we force-fed all eight gifts into one drive-by drop). Envy me ye mere mortals.

I have been envying you since I read the original posting on the Spy. I didn't know it was on the wrong thread.

314 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:11:33pm

re: #303 Gus 802

It's like someone distilled all of Geller's word salads into a potent, inject-able drug.

315 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:11:37pm

re: #310 Gus 802

I might need to be committed because of this.

Only if you responded "lol" or "F___ Yeah".

316 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:11:49pm

re: #307 ggt

scissors?

That was my first thought, but I think it's closer to Pokemon.

317 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:11:51pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

An enterprise shadows authoritarians into the chest. Can authoritarians hazard Transnationalists ? Transnationalists demolishes authoritarians. Authoritarians elaborates within a happier fuss. Transnationalists rips the category. Another stair quibbles near a motor opinion.

No, I think it would be rock beats hazard
scissors cuts category
paper blocks shadows?

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:12:23pm

re: #314 Slumbering Behemoth

It's like someone distilled all of Geller's word salads into a potent, inject-able drug.

It's crack geller. Like crack cocaine. But with geller.

319 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:12:28pm

re: #317 ggt

No, I think it would be rock beats hazard
scissors cuts category
paper blocks shadows?

SAVE A PRETZEL FOR THE GAS JETS

320 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:12:40pm

re: #312 Varek Raith

[Link: watchout4snakes.com...]

Ooo! That looks like fun!

Another race steams against an inferior reluctance. The incident buyer pushes Communo-Fascist. Communo-Fascist tortures Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State. The superb recruit deals Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State behind a bandwagon. Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State whistles a thought below a reactionary. Your detective solos throughout the bush.

321 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:13:22pm

Buddy Hackett and Obama explains an eastern hierarchy without the definitive sore. Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State translates an employer under a theology. Buddy Hackett and Obama adapts Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State with the official. Should Buddy Hackett and Obama peer past the dimensional western? Buddy Hackett and Obama treads Islamo-Drug cartel Narco/Nazi State!

322 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:13:33pm

I know what the problem is.

We haven't seen the deux ex machina for this election period yet.

There has to be one, I can't think of any other literary tool that will work to save us.

323 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:13:57pm

re: #320 Gus 802

re: #321 Gus 802

See?
Makes way more sense./

324 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:14:24pm

re: #313 wrenchwench

I have been envying you since I read the original posting on the Spy. I didn't know it was on the wrong thread.

I'll pay for it on Christmas Eve, when the wife goes off to play midnight mass, and I stay home alone to remember Christmas at the Reform School.

(Spoiler: I enjoyed Christmas at the reform school.)

325 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:15:04pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

I'll pay for it on Christmas Eve, when the wife goes off to play midnight mass, and I stay home alone to remember Christmas at the Reform School.

(Spoiler: I enjoyed Christmas at the reform school.)

Damn, there goes that joke.

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:15:36pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

I'll pay for it on Christmas Eve, when the wife goes off to play midnight mass, and I stay home alone to remember Christmas at the Reform School.

(Spoiler: I enjoyed Christmas at the reform school.)

Special, hidden, sekrit Christmas joint?

327 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:15:43pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

It's crack geller. Like crack cocaine. But with geller.

I'd rather be addicted to cocaine!

328 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:15:45pm

re: #323 Varek Raith

re: #321 Gus 802

See?
Makes way more sense./

George Soros communist Charles Johnson hopes my vile machine. How does a nastier abuse spit under the apathy? Fascist Little Green Footballs Gus_802 lusts underneath George Soros communist Charles Johnson. George Soros communist Charles Johnson behaves!

329 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:16:44pm

This para-geller-generating reminded me of an old post of mine, which I had to dig up:

They'd never find me, not ever. There are so many layers within layers, front groups upon front groups, and so on...

They could dig through the voluminous and murky depths of the Majestic 12, the Illuminaughty, the Rosicrucians, the EIA/TIA, the Knights Templar, the Acolytes of the Giant Sleeping Bastard, the Pyramidic Sycophancy, the Collective of the Omar, the Order of the Many-Headed Sneath, the Global Association of Granny-Quilters, and still not come close to scratching the surface of my nefarious puppet-masterings.

I am so deep into the conspiratorial darkness that you can't even begin to fathom what brand of toilet paper I use. BWAHAHAHA!

330 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:17:05pm

Coffee.
I go make some.
Mongo hearts coffee.

331 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:18:00pm

Good evening Lizards from western NY state.

Nice 5.5 hour drive from Philadelphia this afternoon. A few snow flurries in the Allegheny Mountains, plus rain and drizzle for a good portion of the trip. Now to see how six days of visiting relatives goes.
(But I already found the bottle of Bailey's since no one is currently home.)

332 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:18:10pm

re: #330 Varek Raith

Coffee.
I go make some.
Mongo hearts coffee.

Just finished off my third pot o' the day!!

(jiggy,,, me,,, jiggy ,, why, yes,,,, thanks for noticing!!!)

333 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:18:10pm

re: #330 Varek Raith

Coffee.
I go make some.
Mongo hearts coffee.

Coffee is good.

334 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:18:23pm

re: #328 Gus 802

George Soros communist Charles Johnson hopes my vile machine. How does a nastier abuse spit under the apathy? Fascist Little Green Footballs Gus_802 lusts underneath George Soros communist Charles Johnson. George Soros communist Charles Johnson behaves!

That reads almost like the old text descriptions of combat in Dragon Warrior games.

335 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:19:19pm

re: #331 oaktree

Good evening Lizards from western NY state.

Nice 5.5 hour drive from Philadelphia this afternoon. A few snow flurries in the Allegheny Mountains, plus rain and drizzle for a good portion of the trip. Now to see how six days of visiting relatives goes.
(But I already found the bottle of Bailey's since no one is currently home.)

One word ,,,, HEADPHONES!!!

336 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:20:20pm

re: #331 oaktree

Good evening Lizards from western NY state.

Nice 5.5 hour drive from Philadelphia this afternoon. A few snow flurries in the Allegheny Mountains, plus rain and drizzle for a good portion of the trip. Now to see how six days of visiting relatives goes.
(But I already found the bottle of Bailey's since no one is currently home.)

I am so sorry!

337 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:20:23pm

Not only is it true, but it was first published in that liberal rag the Wall Street Journal...it didn't originate from the Democrats.

338 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:20:36pm

re: #326 ggt

Special, hidden, sekrit Christmas joint?

We were spoiled shitless around Christmas. The doers of good went all out then--the Pittsburgh Freakn' Symphony did a concert in our gym. (I wish there were a heaven for William Steinberg and my nuns.)

339 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:20:55pm

re: #331 oaktree

re: #335 sattv4u2

One word ,,, HEADPHONES!!!

And walks ,,,, lots of long Long LONG walks !!!

340 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:21:06pm

re: #331 oaktree

Good evening Lizards from western NY state.

Nice 5.5 hour drive from Philadelphia this afternoon. A few snow flurries in the Allegheny Mountains, plus rain and drizzle for a good portion of the trip. Now to see how six days of visiting relatives goes.
(But I already found the bottle of Bailey's since no one is currently home.)

THE bottle? It's going to be a long six days.

341 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:21:11pm

re: #339 sattv4u2

re: #335 sattv4u2

And walks ,,, lots of long Long LONG walks !!!

do they have a dog?

342 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:21:47pm

Coffee is brewing.
Now, to find that jerk who took my lunch at work yesterday...

343 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:21:53pm

Ooo! Ooo!

Image: 18PINT3-articleLarge.jpg

344 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:22:17pm

re: #343 Gus 802

Ooo! Ooo!

Image: 18PINT3-articleLarge.jpg

Pinto?

345 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:22:24pm

re: #342 Varek Raith

Coffee is brewing.
Now, to find that jerk who took my lunch at work yesterday...

{chomp chomp},,, {chew chew},,, {swallow swallow}

Umm,,,, huh ????

346 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:22:34pm

speaking of dogs,

mine are hungry.

bbl

347 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:22:52pm

re: #335 sattv4u2

One word ,,, HEADPHONES!!!

If it gets bad I'll check how good the wireless signal is out in the woodshed. If it's decent I can go hang out with the feline overlords there.
(The three cats are banned from the house due to my SIL being allergic to them. So they're full outdoor, and look like Eskimos right now due to having full winter fur outer and inner coats.)

348 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:23:00pm

re: #344 ggt

Pinto?

Gremlin

349 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:23:19pm

re: #344 ggt

Pinto?

Well it's certainly not a Fava.

/legume humor (legumor?)

350 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:23:27pm

re: #346 ggt

There's always room for Jello ewoks.

351 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:24:07pm

re: #349 The Ghost of a Flea

Well it's certainly not a Fava.

/legume humor (legumor?)

Yes, but where has it bean?

352 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:24:25pm

re: #349 The Ghost of a Flea

Well it's certainly not a Fava.

/legume humor (legumor?)

Don't string us along.

353 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:24:25pm

re: #345 sattv4u2

{chomp chomp},,, {chew chew},,, {swallow swallow}

Umm,,, huh ???

Yeah...
I'm going to attach some tow lines to their car and drag it into L.E.O.
MUHAHAHAHA

354 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:24:32pm

re: #351 wrenchwench

Yes, but where has it bean?

In the Navy.

355 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:25:24pm

re: #354 The Ghost of a Flea

In the Navy.

That's not what I red.

356 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:25:36pm

re: #27 Charles

And this is simply ending Medicare as it currently exists, and replacing it with something else. The fact that they'd still call it "Medicare" is irrelevant.

The difficulty I think here is in trying to define "ending medicare". The reality is that any time you change the program, it would be factually correct to say it ends medicare as we know it. If we knew that the program did x and now it does Y, that is the end of it as we know it. The issue is really when you have a change that goes substantially to what the program is, or to how it is perceived, that I think constitutes ending medicare. To take a single payer public system and privatize it to a subsidized voucher program for private insurance, I think goes to the fundamental nature of the program. It replaces the single payer with private insurance companies. That seems to me to be a fundamental change and worthy of the title the "end of medicare". But that is my opinion and I can respect the opinion of others. This is not a foreign concept in legal contractual wrangling, and there is plenty of jurisprudence under common law contract law that discusses what is a fundamental change and what is not.

357 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:26:19pm

re: #355 wrenchwench

That's not what I red.

I expected you to wax more poetic.

358 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:27:03pm

:(

I think my fridge was specifically programmed to destroy fresh mushrooms in a matter of days. These are not going into the Xmas turkey stuffing.

Off to the store I go. Laters all.

359 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:27:39pm

re: #357 Decatur Deb

I expected you to wax more poetic.

Have you bean stalking me?

360 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:29:04pm

re: #358 Slumbering Behemoth

:(

I think my fridge was specifically programmed to destroy fresh mushrooms in a matter of days. These are not going into the Xmas turkey stuffing.

Off to the store I go. Laters all.

I got 2 grow-it-yourself mushroom kits for Christmas--oyster and shitake.

(Unless that was a devilishly clever assassination attempt.)

361 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:29:06pm

Hey peeps.

I'm alive. Horrid couple of weeks.

Hoping you are all well.

362 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:30:13pm

re: #340 darthstar

THE bottle? It's going to be a long six days.

Well, there's more alcohol on site and I see that my brother has a case of decent beer on hand (Trogg's Dreamweaver).

Part of the reason for me to visit is to help keep my brother sane while my SIL flips out over the holiday. Said flip-out self inflicted since she overschedules doing stuff, likes to host, and then goes frantic doing the hosting.

363 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:30:18pm

re: #359 wrenchwench

Have you bean stalking me?

If you were a man and I less a gentleman, I might ask you to Jack off.

364 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:30:38pm

re: #361 wozzablog

Hey peeps.

I'm alive. Horrid couple of weeks.

Hoping you are all well.

{wozza}

I hope you are recovering from whatever it was.

365 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:31:18pm

re: #361 wozzablog

Hey peeps.

I'm alive. Horrid couple of weeks.

Hoping you are all well.

w/b ,, hope you're over whatever it was

366 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:32:39pm

re: #343 Gus 802

Ooo! Ooo!

Image: 18PINT3-articleLarge.jpg

Dude...I saw one of those in the wild the other week.
Image: gremlin.jpg

367 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:32:46pm

re: #361 wozzablog

Hey peeps.

I'm alive. Horrid couple of weeks.

Hoping you are all well.

Take the Talking Cure--go for it.

368 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:33:34pm

re: #363 Decatur Deb

If you were a man and I less a gentleman, I might ask you to Jack off.

You must be kidneying me. I'm castoring about for something as P. vulgaris as that.

369 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:33:55pm

re: #366 darthstar

Dude...I saw one of those in the wild the other week.
Image: gremlin.jpg

Me too

Image: gremlin.jpg

370 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:34:36pm

re: #369 sattv4u2

Me too

Image: gremlin.jpg

Want to have fun? Pour water over its head and shove it down your pants.

371 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:34:57pm

re: #368 wrenchwench

You must be kidneying me. I'm castoring about for something as P. vulgaris as that.

I bow before a triple.

372 Gus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:35:13pm

Behold the luxurious interior!

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

373 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:35:39pm

re: #366 darthstar

Dude...I saw one of those in the wild the other week.
Image: gremlin.jpg

Optical illusion

If you stare at this photo long enough, you'll see an AMC Gremlin

Image: 13-amc-gremlin.jpg

374 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:37:34pm

re: #371 Decatur Deb

I bow before a triple.

I saw Obdicut in the Spy and knew I had to step up my act.

375 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:39:22pm

re: #373 sattv4u2

Optical illusion

If you stare at this photo long enough, you'll see an AMC Gremlin

Image: 13-amc-gremlin.jpg

I could get into this Vega...

376 Buck  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:40:31pm
“Where’s my Ferrari?” the owner would ask.

“It’s right here,” I’d respond. “This has four wheels, a steering wheel, and pedals, and it says ‘Ferrari’ right there on the back.”

You don't own the service that is being provided. In your example the government is giving you a car to use when you need it. It is never your car. And if you are already using the government car, nothing changes for you.

To make your example work, let's make a few changes.
Now, at the start, they give you a ferrari. You get used to that and you like it a lot.

However later the government starts to try and save money. So they first replace the ferrari's. Not yours, because you are already used to the ferrari. Nothing changes for you. However for people who join the program 10 years from now they get a Buick. It is still a car for when they need it, but it isn't a ferrari. It never was a ferrari providing service, it was a car providing service. So the service is the same. Providing cars when they are needed didn't end.

They want to start sharing the cost with you. So you get to use the car only a certain amount of times. After that, if you earn in the top 2%, then you pay for the car use at a rate of 70% for you and 30% by the government. Again only for use above a certain amount. If you earn in the next 6% you split the extra costs 50/50 with the government. Everyone else get the car service paid for 100%

377 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:42:19pm

re: #375 darthstar

I could get into this Vega...

I prefer Vergara

[Link: www.google.com...]

378 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:45:18pm

re: #376 Buck

You don't own the service that is being provided. In your example the government is giving you a car to use when you need it. It is never your car. And if you are already using the government car, nothing changes for you.

To make your example work, let's make a few changes.
Now, at the start, they give you a ferrari. You get used to that and you like it a lot.

However later the government starts to try and save money. So they first replace the ferrari's. Not yours, because you are already used to the ferrari. Nothing changes for you. However for people who join the program 10 years from now they get a Buick. It is still a car for when they need it, but it isn't a ferrari. It never was a ferrari providing service, it was a car providing service. So the service is the same. Providing cars when they are needed didn't end.

They want to start sharing the cost with you. So you get to use the car only a certain amount of times. After that, if you earn in the top 2%, then you pay for the car use at a rate of 70% for you and 30% by the government. Again only for use above a certain amount. If you earn in the next 6% you split the extra costs 50/50 with the government. Everyone else get the car service paid for 100%

way to miss the point, buck

379 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:45:19pm

re: #377 sattv4u2

I prefer Vergara

[Link: www.google.com...]

You misspelled Guevara...but I still don't get it.

380 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:46:15pm

re: #368 wrenchwench

You must be kidneying me. I'm castoring about for something as P. vulgaris as that.

Not to be the canary in the coalmine, but without some saucy content a thread full of bean puns would get awfully dal. I mean, is there anything more mungdane than beans?

381 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:47:33pm

re: #380 The Ghost of a Flea

Not to be the canary in the coalmine, but without some saucy content a thread full of bean puns would get awfully dal. I mean, is there anything more mungdane than beans?

Asparagus your criticisms.

382 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:47:50pm

re: #376 Buck

Here you are bitchin' about Ferraris (not Ferrari's, by the way...I hate that shit) and you went and missed the bus...again.

383 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:47:53pm

re: #376 Buck

You don't own the service that is being provided. In your example the government is giving you a car to use when you need it. It is never your car. And if you are already using the government car, nothing changes for you.

To make your example work, let's make a few changes.
Now, at the start, they give you a ferrari. You get used to that and you like it a lot.

However later the government starts to try and save money. So they first replace the ferrari's. Not yours, because you are already used to the ferrari. Nothing changes for you. However for people who join the program 10 years from now they get a Buick. It is still a car for when they need it, but it isn't a ferrari. It never was a ferrari providing service, it was a car providing service. So the service is the same. Providing cars when they are needed didn't end.

They want to start sharing the cost with you. So you get to use the car only a certain amount of times. After that, if you earn in the top 2%, then you pay for the car use at a rate of 70% for you and 30% by the government. Again only for use above a certain amount. If you earn in the next 6% you split the extra costs 50/50 with the government. Everyone else get the car service paid for 100%

What in Hell's name are we talking about now?

384 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:49:38pm

re: #383 SanFranciscoZionist

What in Hell's name are we talking about now?

Sofia Vergara of course.

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:50:06pm

re: #384 oaktree

Sofia Vergara of course.

So if Sofia is the Ferrari, who's the Buick?

386 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:50:29pm

So, what's up?

387 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:50:48pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

So if Sofia is the Ferrari, who's the Buick?

I don't know, but Buck appears to have a pinto up his butt

388 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:50:57pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

So if Sofia is the Ferrari, who's the Buick?

Buck.

389 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:51:51pm

re: #388 b_sharp

Buck.

Image: old-buick-1.jpg

390 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:51:57pm

Thanks peeps.
Girlfriend and I are now cooled off or on sabbatical or whatever. New year trip canceled.

Whole jobsearch has had an unwelcome shake up after an interview last week - coming across as overqualified and a flight risk for what I've been shooting at.

391 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:52:01pm

re: #387 darthstar

I don't know, but Buck appears to have a pinto up his butt

Are we mixing car puns with our bean puns now?

392 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:52:11pm

re: #380 The Ghost of a Flea

Not to be the canary in the coalmine, but without some saucy content a thread full of bean puns would get awfully dal. I mean, is there anything more mungdane than beans?

And here I was worried about Obdicut. What a silly chickpea.

393 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:52:45pm

And on that note, the long quiet (and rainy) drive home beckons

394 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:52:59pm

re: #376 Buck

Yes. So the system whereby you used to get a derivable vehicle will become one where you get a shitty beat up piece of crap that'll break down and cost you a lot to maintain.

Or to put it another way, the GOP plan would end medicare as we know it, and replace it with a privatized system.

That is real.

That it wouldn't end for everyone right away isn't the point. Twenty years in the future, it'd be gone, and there'd be a privatized system in place they were calling 'medicare'.

395 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:53:09pm

re: #390 wozzablog

Thanks peeps.
Girlfriend and I are now cooled off or on sabbatical or whatever. New year trip canceled.

Whole jobsearch has had an unwelcome shake up after an interview last week - coming across as overqualified and a flight risk for what I've been shooting at.

Shit man, you have my sympathies.

396 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:53:57pm

re: #393 sattv4u2

And on that note, the long quiet (and rainy) drive home beckons

Have you thought of using a bicycle?

397 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:53:57pm

re: #391 Decatur Deb

Are we mixing car puns with our bean puns now?

They're both cause rear ends to explode in flames.
Image: 52689512.jpg

398 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:53:59pm

re: #390 wozzablog

{{{wozza}}}

What b_sharp said.

399 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:54:02pm

re: #395 b_sharp

Shit man, you have my sympathies.

Hell, he's one dead dog short of a country-and-western hit.

400 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:54:27pm

re: #393 sattv4u2

And on that note, the long quiet (and rainy) drive home beckons

You should really consider walking on days like this.

401 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:55:21pm

re: #392 wrenchwench

And here I was worried about Obdicut. What a silly chickpea.

I am completely satiated on awesome xiaolongbao at a new place that was recommended by a friend. Amazing. And I'm having some sake my parents get me. I'm too blissed out to pun effectively.

402 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:56:22pm

re: #400 darthstar

You should really consider walking on days like this.

We really are assholes, aren't we?

And evil to boot.

403 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:56:36pm

re: #390 wozzablog

Thanks peeps.
Girlfriend and I are now cooled off or on sabbatical or whatever. New year trip canceled.

Whole jobsearch has had an unwelcome shake up after an interview last week - coming across as overqualified and a flight risk for what I've been shooting at.

I hate being told I'm overqualified more than almost anything else. Sure, maybe I am-- maybe I just want to excel at that level, instead of being stressed out and frantic all the time. Don't you want a total expert who can get his job done in 1/2 the time and then spend the rest helping others? 'cuz that's what I'd do.

I got turned down for something like that a few months ago. I understand their reasoning, but it still seems dumb to me.

404 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:57:05pm

re: #381 Decatur Deb

Asparagus your criticisms.

Just trying to give everyone a lentil letdown rather than a black eye. But on consideration I'm vetching for nothing. It's not like I have the pulse of the broad online community...nor should I be posturing like I'm the prince of this cassoulet.

405 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:57:10pm

re: #399 Decatur Deb

Hell, he's one dead dog short of a country-and-western hit.

I don't have any pets, but my liver will be taken out to the yard and shot soon enough probably.

406 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:57:10pm

re: #396 b_sharp

Have you thought of using a bicycle?

I do use one
I have two jackets hanging on the handlebars!!

re: #400 darthstar

You should really consider walking on days like this.

I do. I walk from the control room to the car. Then, from my driveway to the front door, up the stairs, and right to the sofa/ recliner

407 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:57:22pm

re: #375 darthstar

I could get into this Vega...

Her name is Luka...she lives on the second floor.

///

408 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:57:25pm

re: #402 b_sharp

We really are assholes, aren't we?

And evil to boot.

Reaction to all the holiday muzak.

409 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:57:52pm

re: #404 The Ghost of a Flea

Just trying to give everyone a lentil letdown rather than a black eye. But on consideration I'm vetching for nothing. It's not like I have the pulse of the broad online community...nor should I be posturing like I'm the prince of this cassoulet.

damn.

410 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:58:31pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

So if Sofia is the Ferrari, who's the Buick?

Roseanne Barr.

411 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:59:14pm

re: #404 The Ghost of a Flea

Just trying to give everyone a lentil letdown rather than a black eye. But on consideration I'm vetching for nothing. It's not like I have the pulse of the broad online community...nor should I be posturing like I'm the prince of this cassoulet.

I am reduced to a shell.

412 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:59:37pm

re: #410 oaktree

Roseanne Barr.

No, Roseanne would be the Trabant.

413 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 4:59:56pm

re: #411 wrenchwench

I am reduced to a shell.

The joint is jumping.

414 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:00:05pm

re: #403 Obdicut

I hate being told I'm overqualified more than almost anything else. Sure, maybe I am-- maybe I just want to excel at that level, instead of being stressed out and frantic all the time. Don't you want a total expert who can get his job done in 1/2 the time and then spend the rest helping others? 'cuz that's what I'd do.

I got turned down for something like that a few months ago. I understand their reasoning, but it still seems dumb to me.

Pretty much exactly the point I made.

Although from the stories she was telling me of the last people she'd hired they were`somewhat underqualified, and the girl i walked past on the way in who's job i'd be sharing looked almost entirely without gorm.

415 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:00:21pm

"We don't want to end Medicare, we just want to end it being a public program, end its payment structure, and end the way it interacts with doctors."

is congruent with:

"I don't hate you, I just hate everything about you."

416 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:01:41pm

re: #412 talon_262

No, Roseanne would be the Trabant.

Went through E. Germany a couple years after the wall came down. Trabi's were piled 12 high. Apparently they don't bio-degrade..

417 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:01:57pm

re: #414 wozzablog

The workplace has pretty much ceased to recognize and value real team players, funnily enough. Everything is getting more Randian, everyone is expected to act solely in their own self-interest, the only way they think they can get team play is through creepy social engineering like what Google does. That's how it seems to me, anyway. The companies that actually stress teamwork in a non-cynical way are few and far between.

418 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:04:00pm

re: #415 Obdicut

"We don't want to end Medicare, we just want to end it being a public program, end its payment structure, and end the way it interacts with doctors."

is congruent with:

"I don't hate you, I just hate everything about you."

Don't hate the actor, hate the act.

That we become what we do doesn't matter I guess.

419 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:15:47pm

I mesquite going. It's bean fun, but dinner's waiting, and it's not beans.

420 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:16:00pm

I have a knack for killing a thread.
Somebody bury the thing will you.

421 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:22:52pm

re: #420 b_sharp

Well I'm just killing time. Time exposure, camera right out my office window on the fire escape. One click every 6 seconds from dusk till night.

422 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:23:23pm

And Sofia even has the fast car...

Youtube Video
423 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:24:24pm

re: #421 Rightwingconspirator

Well I'm just killing time. Time exposure, camera right out my office window on the fire escape. One click every 6 seconds from dusk till night.

Sorry, but I have to do this:

Cool beans.

424 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:27:41pm

The cleaning blitz continues. I think it is 9 bags so far for the thrift store.

425 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:29:21pm

re: #424 prairiefire

The cleaning blitz continues. I think it is 9 bags so far for the thrift store.

I hope there is something in those bags.

426 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:29:42pm

re: #424 prairiefire

The cleaning blitz continues. I think it is 9 bags so far for the thrift store.

Redding up for Hogmanay?

[Link: www.aboutaberdeen.com...]

427 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:35:32pm

re: #425 b_sharp

I hope there is something in those bags.

Yeah...
YOU!

428 Lidane  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:36:18pm

Oy. Today is the day I get final grades. I'm a bundle of nerves. So far, it's 3 B's and an A, with two more classes incoming. They're both looking like A's, so I'll end up splitting my grades this term, but we'll see.

Thank goodness there's only one more semester of this to go. I can't stand this level of stress. I'd rather deal with work again. At least I'll be getting paid to worry about things instead of paying for the privilege now. =P

429 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:37:08pm

re: #424 prairiefire

The cleaning blitz continues. I think it is 9 bags so far for the thrift store.

Put down the computer! Victory awaits!

430 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:42:29pm

I am compelled to share this:

Hanukkah Metal: Eight Days of Victory, by Gods of Fire

431 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:43:19pm

Gary Johnson bails from the GOP

[Link: www.politico.com...]

432 Lidane  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:44:03pm

And in news that turns my stress into the First World problem it is:

Latino Military Veteran Not Expected To Survive After Scuffle With Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Officers

433 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:46:11pm

I wonder what the religious-right sleazevangelicals who call environmentalists "watermelons" (green on the outside, "commie red" on the inside, durr hurr) would have to say about this:

Christmas Staple Frankincense 'Doomed,' Ecologists Warn

The biblical Christmas story of the three kings may need a rewriting, or at least a tweak to one of the gifts — frankincense. Production of the fragrant resin, which is used in perfume and incense, could decline by half over the next 15 years, a new study finds.
...
"Current management of Boswellia populations is clearly unsustainable," said study researcher Frans Bongers of Wageningen University in the Netherlands. "Our models show that within 50 years, populations of Boswellia will be decimated, and the declining populations mean frankincense production is doomed. This is a rather alarming message for the incense industry and conservation organizations."

434 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:47:09pm

re: #430 The Ghost of a Flea

I am compelled to share this:

Hanukkah Metal: Eight Days of Victory, by Gods of Fire

Not for me.

435 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:47:37pm

re: #432 Lidane

And in news that turns my stress into the First World problem it is:

Latino Military Veteran Not Expected To Survive After Scuffle With Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Officers

Morons and bigots shouldn't be aloud to carry tasers. Like pepper spray, "less than lethal" doesn't mean you can't kill somebody if you fail to heed to instructions about safe usage.

Not for me.

Not really my taste either, but I find the continuous re-combination of musical types interesting.

436 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:48:26pm

re: #431 SpaceJesus

Gary Johnson bails from the GOP

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Libertarian Party--Home for Unloved Republicans.

437 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:49:05pm

re: #426 Decatur Deb

Redding up for Hogmanay?

[Link: www.aboutaberdeen.com...]

Ah, so it's in my Brown scottish genes. Also, my sister-in-law is coming for a visit.

438 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:49:15pm

re: #431 SpaceJesus

Gary Johnson bails from the GOP

[Link: www.politico.com...]

That's where he belongs, in the loony bin with the rest of 'em.

439 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:49:42pm

re: #436 Decatur Deb

Libertarian Party--Home for Unloved Republicans.

@LOLGOP
Libertarian - n. someone smart enough to know that it's embarrassing to be a Republican.

440 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:50:06pm

re: #438 Charles

Polls are showing he could win the upcoming NM Senate seat as GOP.

441 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:50:39pm

Which doesn't make him any less bananas, of course.

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:55:42pm

re: #428 Lidane

Oy. Today is the day I get final grades. I'm a bundle of nerves. So far, it's 3 B's and an A, with two more classes incoming. They're both looking like A's, so I'll end up splitting my grades this term, but we'll see.

Thank goodness there's only one more semester of this to go. I can't stand this level of stress. I'd rather deal with work again. At least I'll be getting paid to worry about things instead of paying for the privilege now. =P

You hang in there.

(I signed up for my next class today. I am taking "Society, Culture and Gender". I cannot tell you how much I am resenting having to pay for this course. It's not that I'm opposed to taking courses in political correctness, it's just that I could teach this class myself, easily, don't expect to learn anything new (they're not that sophisticated), and expect lots of push-back from certain cohort-mates.)

Can't I test out?

443 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 5:56:23pm

re: #432 Lidane

And in news that turns my stress into the First World problem it is:

Latino Military Veteran Not Expected To Survive After Scuffle With Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Officers

I looked into that the other day. I'm very cautious of left wing blogs these days. The story does sound tragic, Yes Arpaio is a dick, but the dude seems to have been arrested trying to assault a woman. Just because it happen in Arizona and the guy was a soldier doesn't make him a saint or a martyr. Let's wait to learn more of what happened.

444 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:01:08pm

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

You hang in there.

(I signed up for my next class today. I am taking "Society, Culture and Gender". I cannot tell you how much I am resenting having to pay for this course. It's not that I'm opposed to taking courses in political correctness, it's just that I could teach this class myself, easily, don't expect to learn anything new (they're not that sophisticated), and expect lots of push-back from certain cohort-mates.)

Can't I test out?

The answers are:

C.
A.
A.
B.
D.
All of the Above.
C.
Kick him in the crotch.
B.

445 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:08:07pm

re: #443 Killgore Trout

I looked into that the other day. I'm very cautious of left wing blogs these days. The story does sound tragic, Yes Arpaio is a dick, but the dude seems to have been arrested trying to assault a woman. Just because it happen in Arizona and the guy was a soldier doesn't make him a saint or a martyr. Let's wait to learn more of what happened.

The issue isn't whether he deserved to be arrested or was a good person.

In the course of subduing him he was given multiple taser hits, then put in a cell and no one thought to check whether he might need medical attention. Repeated shocks of a distressed person...who was likely also being physically restrained, as it occurred during a struggle, which is also counterindicated when safely using a taser...means greater likelihood of cardiac arrhythmia.

So even if all that force was required to bring him down because he was PCP nuts, leaving him in a cell with no medical attention was negligent at best. If it turns out more than one guy was tasering him at once, or they were doing so while applying a chokehold or otherwise restricting his airway...well, they're even more negligent.

446 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:09:48pm

[Link: supervillainornewt.com...]

447 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:12:45pm

re: #427 Varek Raith

Yeah...
YOU!

Just like KFC, cut into 9 pieces.

448 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:14:55pm

re: #443 Killgore Trout

I looked into that the other day. I'm very cautious of left wing blogs these days. The story does sound tragic, Yes Arpaio is a dick, but the dude seems to have been arrested trying to assault a woman. Just because it happen in Arizona and the guy was a soldier doesn't make him a saint or a martyr. Let's wait to learn more of what happened.

The facts of how this vet wound up in MCSD custody aren't in dispute and I doubt any one of us would disagree that this was most likely a righteous arrest. If the guy was doing something against the law, let the law handle it.

The real issue is that a Latino in MCSD custody has met a suspicious, untimely end...and this is not the first (or even second) time this appears to have happened in the past few years, IIRC.

To paraphrase Hamlet, something is rotten in the state of Arizona.

449 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:14:56pm

re: #445 The Ghost of a Flea

Police force OK if armchair American decides you deserved it. Fuck the rule of law. So stupidly dangerous. Folks are just giving it up.

450 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:29:52pm

re: #445 The Ghost of a Flea

In the course of subduing him he was given multiple taser hits

Lost out to the timer. This should read:

In the course of subduing him in a scuffle after he had been detained he was given multiple taser hits....

451 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:31:42pm

re: #448 talon_262

The facts of how this vet wound up in MCSD custody aren't in dispute and I doubt any one of us would disagree that this was most likely a righteous arrest. If the guy was doing something against the law, let the law handle it.

The real issue is that a Latino in MCSD custody has met a suspicious, untimely end...and this is not the first (or even second) time this appears to have happened in the past few years, IIRC.

To paraphrase Hamlet, something is rotten in the state of Arizona.

This seems to be yet another case of neglect, or outright abuse. It should be investigated by the appropriate authorities out of simple respect for the rule of law.

With that said, however, it is really hard for me to care about what happened to this guy. Hell, if he was accidentally shot out of a cannon into the sun while being subdued, after abusing a woman, I'd still have a hard time drumming up any sympathy or care.

IMO, there is so much evidence for abuse/neglect/mismanagement/etc by Joe Arpaio’s department that I feel it is foolish for liberals to appear sympathetic to a womanizer just to point out another instance.

452 BishopX  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:34:39pm

re: #451 prononymous

Do you have a link to the abuse claims? What I've been reading says he was arrested for kicking a door and harassing a woman on the street. To me that sounds like arrested for disturbing the peace.

453 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:37:12pm

re: #452 BishopX

Nope, just going by what was said here. I guess I should qualify it all with a big IF. Oh, and swap assault for abuse.

454 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 6:46:13pm

re: #451 prononymous

This seems to be yet another case of neglect, or outright abuse. It should be investigated by the appropriate authorities out of simple respect for the rule of law.

With that said, however, it is really hard for me to care about what happened to this guy. Hell, if he was accidentally shot out of a cannon into the sun while being subdued, after abusing a woman, I'd still have a hard time drumming up any sympathy or care.

IMO, there is so much evidence for abuse/neglect/mismanagement/etc by Joe Arpaio’s department that I feel it is foolish for liberals to appear sympathetic to a womanizer just to point out another instance.

"Womanizer" means something else, IIRC.

This guy's personal story doesn't interest me that much. If he did in fact assault this woman, yeah, my level of concern is low. My level of concern for the law, and the degree of control the sheriff's department is under, however, is much higher.

455 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 7:12:59pm

re: #454 SanFranciscoZionist

I just read up on it a bit. I would need more information before reaching a conclusion. But it sounds like the alleged assault by the man and the abuse/neglect by the officers was separated by a significant time interval. That totally changes my conclusion. While I could see accidentally harming him to protect an innocent from being further attacked, there is no excuse for abusing him after the fact.

Whatever way it goes, it deserves a full investigation. Abuse, neglect, corruption, and other crimes by law enforcement bodies should not be taken lightly.

456 labman57  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:30:01pm

Ryan and his fellow health insurance lobby lackeys in the Republican Party took a "General MacArthur" approach to destroying our nation's Medicare system. His plan would not have made it immediately die -- he simply wanted it to slowly fade away.
… and with it the ability of future senior citizens to obtain affordable chronic condition treatment and preventative health care.

Bottom line -- most Congressional Republicans do not have the best interests of the vast majority of Americans at heart ... and every day, more and more Americans are coming to this realization.


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