Strong Evidence That Ron Paul Really Did Write Those Racist Newsletters

Far right dishonesty, in your face
Politics • Views: 34,997

In New Hampshire today, Ron Paul denied that he had anything to do with the blatantly racist newsletters sent out by his organization in the 1990s, despite undeniable evidence to the contrary: Ron Paul Denies Writing Past Newsletters Featuring Racial Slurs.

“Everybody knows I didn’t write them,” Paul said during a Tuesday campaign stop in New Hampshire. “It’s not my sentiment, so it’s sort of politics as usual.”

“Everybody knows I didn’t write them.”

Maybe Ron Paul should explain why this 1992 edition of his newsletter cites a magazine that only a professional gynecologist (like Ron Paul) would be expected to follow: Contemporary OB-GYN.

Notice also the comments attributed to Ron Paul about chess champion Bobby Fischer:

Spaasky vs, Who?

When the champion chess match between Bobby Fischer and Spassky got underway, it was called the game of the century. Major newspapers had hotlines for updates. Daily 1,000-word essays chronicled every move.

Then something happened. Fischer began to lay waste to Spaasky, and the the press attention nearly disappeared. What happened?

It turns out that the brilliant Fischer, who has all the makings of an American hero, is very politically incorrect on Jewish questions, for which he will never be forgiven, even though he is a Jew. Thus we are not supposed to herald him as the world’s greatest chess player.

Here are some of the things Bobby Fischer said about Jews, that Ron Paul’s newsletter described as “politically incorrect:”

They’re lying bastards. Jews were always lying bastards throughout their history. They’re a filthy, dirty, disgusting, vile, criminal people.

[…]

My main interest right now is to expose the Jews. This is a lot bigger than me. They’re not just persecuting me. This is not just my struggle, I’m not just doing this for myself… This is life and death for the world. These God-damn Jews have to be stopped. They’re a menace to the whole world.

[…]

The Jews have been hardened against Christ, against decency for thousands of years… They’re gonna have to be annihilated, Eugene.

(Speaking to Eugene Torre, Radio Interview, May 24 1999)

[…]

Hopefully the Jews will get it in the neck soon. They have a lot of enemies all over the world. These biological weapons are getting very cheap and easy to deliver. I’m optimistic, I’m hoping that Washington DC will be wiped out.

[…]

They are subhuman. They are the scum of the Earth. When you talk about Jews, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel of humanity.

[…]

I don’t think there’ll be any (world) peace until these Jews are dealt with, Eugene. These people are animals, they’re just bastards, y’know. Absolute animals.

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759 comments
1 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:23:06pm

Holy cow! This is more of an eye opener about Bobby Fischer than Ron Paul!

2 Mattand  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:24:51pm

Christ. I was little Paul-curious back in 2007-2008. Once I found out he was questioning evolution, I backed off in a hurry.

Once I got familiar with libertarianism (or his version, at any rate), I felt justified in my decision.

Now? It's becoming patently obvious where his kid got his views from.

Jerkoff. Both of 'em.

3 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:25:04pm

Oh boy. Lew Rockwell made a really stupid decision to move to a more conservative version of libertarianism because he felt the best way to make libertarianism relevant was to tie it to social conservatism and to get rid of the notion that libertarians were pot smoking hippies. He was wrong, and it's compounded by how Lew Rockwell and company tried to tie in with the conservatives, by pandering to the base impulses stereotyping and bigotry.

That How much it will come back to Haunt Ron Paul will depend on how hard people want to bang the drums for newsletters written 2 decades ago. Do I think Ron Paul knew everything that went into the newsletter? No. Do I think Ron Paul is racist? No. Do I think he should be held accountable for what was printed in his name? Heck yes.

Ironically Lew Rockwell will probably end up doing more damage to the Libertarian movement by his efforts to be relevant than if he'd sat around being a pot smoking hippie.

4 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:26:36pm

re: #3 bloodstar

Sorry, but I do NOT believe Lew Rockwell wrote Ron Paul's newsletters. He's a convenient scapegoat. Ron Paul wrote this stuff.

5 Mattand  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:26:43pm

re: #1 marjoriemoon

I've read about Fischer's anti-semitism/wearin' o' the crazy pants before. Brilliant mind, whacked out views.

6 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:28:36pm

Bobby Fischer was perhaps the greatest chess player ever, but he was one crazy SoB.

The direct take from the newsletter isn't conclusive, but it does bloster the case that Ron Paul wrote the article in question.

7 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:29:53pm

Even if Ron Paul did NOT write this stuff, the fact is that it was published under his name. Either he wrote it, or he accepted these words written by somebody else, and he is responsible for it.

If he didn't know what was being said? Then the man isn't paying sufficient attention to the details of what's being done in his name to be qualified for any public position.

8 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:30:06pm

I don't think Lew Rockwell 'received a call from a minister' to speak against 'pro-death unethical trends' at a 'major Texas medical center.' Ron Paul definitely wrote that paragraph and there is no reason to believe he didn't write the rest of the surrounding paragraphs.

9 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:30:37pm

re: #5 mattand

I've read about Fischer's anti-semitism/wearin' o' the crazy pants before. Brilliant mind, whacked out views.

I guess I didn't pay attention on this one! My parents I'm sure were aware.

10 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:31:30pm

re: #4 Charles

Sorry, but I do NOT believe Lew Rockwell wrote Ron Paul's newsletters. He's a convenient scapegoat. Ron Paul wrote this stuff.

Understood, and on the point we're going to be agreeing to disagree. :)

Of interest is an article back in 2008 from the Economist (the best news magazine evah!) on the controversy. I won't quote it in the interest of brevity. But it's worth a look-see.

11 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:32:51pm

re: #7 reine.de.tout

Even if Ron Paul did NOT write this stuff, the fact is that it was published under his name. Either he wrote it, or he accepted these words written by somebody else, and he is responsible for it.

If he didn't know what was being said? Then the man isn't paying sufficient attention to the details of what's being done in his name to be qualified for any public position.

My point being - folks should not be fooled by any "I didn't write this" statements. He is responsible for this; and must have agreed with it, whether he actually wrote it or not, or he wouldn't have allowed it to be published under his name.

12 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:34:13pm

Umm... if your name is at the top of the page in big letters, and you okayed it, yeah, you are responsible for it.

13 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:35:12pm

re: #12 JasonA

Umm... if your name is at the top of the page in big letters, and you okayed it, yeah, you are responsible for it.

LOL Definitely a raging clue.

14 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:35:29pm

re: #11 reine.de.tout

My point being - folks should not be fooled by any "I didn't write this" statements. He is responsible for this; and must have agreed with it, whether he actually wrote it or not, or he wouldn't have allowed it to be published under his name.

Quite Concur. If an article goes out in the newsletter with your name on it, published with your approval, you are responsible for any toxic content in it.

15 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:35:39pm

I didn't write it! I had nothing to do with it!

I just waited until called out on it before saying anything to the contrary...

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:35:49pm

It strains credulity to the breaking point to believe that Ron Paul didn't know what was in his newsletter.

He wrote this stuff, in an era when it was easier to get away with blatant racism. And now he's running away from it.

17 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:36:11pm

re: #13 marjoriemoon

LOL Definitely a raging clue.

Have the Hardly Boys been informed?

/South Park reference

18 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:36:11pm

re: #13 marjoriemoon

LOL Definitely a raging clue.

I really don't understand why this is so difficult for him to understand.

19 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:36:37pm

To refer to bobby fischer as "very politically incorrect on jewish questions" is disgusting. Moreover, mentioning that he was Jewish is equally disgusting, as it is an attempt to allow him the license to say the types of things he said. In fact Fischer denied his Jewish roots and spent much of his life in a fringe crackpot Christian congregation that blew apart in scandal. He was a bigot of the worst sort who proclaimed his love of Hitler and was a holocaust denier.

20 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:37:46pm

Paul's defense has been so successful, Gingrich tried telling everyone that quoting what he said in a previous interview would be a lie.

21 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:37:50pm

re: #16 Charles

It strains credulity to the breaking point to believe that Ron Paul didn't know what was in his newsletter.

He wrote this stuff, in an era when it was easier to get away with blatant racism. And now he's running away from it.

He can run, but he can't hide. Hopefully, this sinks the RPS Failboat for good.

22 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:38:26pm

re: #11 reine.de.tout

My point being - folks should not be fooled by any "I didn't write this" statements. He is responsible for this; and must have agreed with it, whether he actually wrote it or not, or he wouldn't have allowed it to be published under his name.

And ultimately, that's what matters. I don't know if he's said point black blank(! argh!), that what was written was wrong and that it was wrong to have published it and that he was sorry that it's happened. If he has, I'd consider it more water under the bridge. I'm under the impression though, that he hasn't accepted responsibility.

And that disappoints me. Because he's doing damage to libertarianism (with a small l) and making us look like a bunch of bigots who are looking to sneak evil thoughts and beliefs under the mantle of 'constitutionalism' and 'small government'. And that's so not what libertarianism is about. :(

23 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:38:41pm

Ron Paul scares the bejeebus out of me. For some reason, he seems to have a lot of appeal among the young 'uns. I don't get it.

24 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:39:39pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

He can run, but he can't hide. Hopefully, this sinks the RPS Failboat for good.

It'll be a lot easier to sink him if he wins Iowa, ironically. Then people will start paying attention.

25 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:40:20pm

If he can't keep track of who wrote a newsletter, how does he expect to impress anyone with his ability to run the executive branch?

26 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:40:46pm

The dictator of Germany in the 1930s and early 1940s didn't write "Der Sturmer" either, but it represented his views ...

27 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:41:07pm

Also:

Personal Responsibility!
For thee, not for meeeeee!

28 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:41:29pm

re: #25 jaunte

If he can't keep track of who wrote a newsletter, how does he expect to impress anyone with his ability to run the executive branch?

We're supposed to audit the fed, not his past!!!

29 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:41:47pm

re: #22 bloodstar

And ultimately, that's what matters. I don't know if he's said point black, that what was written was wrong and that it was wrong to have published it

Ironic typo given the subject under discussion...

30 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:41:53pm

re: #23 reine.de.tout

Ron Paul scares the bejeebus out of me. For some reason, he seems to have a lot of appeal among the young 'uns. I don't get it.

It is because he advocates the legalization of marijuana ... Very popular among the young 'uns

31 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:42:32pm

re: #23 reine.de.tout

Ron Paul scares the bejeebus out of me. For some reason, he seems to have a lot of appeal among the young 'uns. I don't get it.

Ironically enough, it's that Ron Paul's message right now is one of empowerment. The young 'uns have spent their entire life being told what to do and being told what they are or are not allowed to do. They're finally getting to spread their wings and someone is out there telling them that they can take back their freedoms.

It's a great message, I think though, that if they really understood how much some of those 'freedoms' would screw their lives up, they might not be quite so... enthused.

32 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:42:39pm

re: #23 reine.de.tout

Ron Paul scares the bejeebus out of me. For some reason, he seems to have a lot of appeal among the young 'uns. I don't get it.

Weed. It really is that simple.

33 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:43:48pm

re: #29 publicityStunted

Ironic typo given the subject under discussion...

Ironic Epic Fail!

34 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:45:12pm

re: #19 Petero1818

To refer to bobby fischer as "very politically incorrect on jewish questions" is disgusting. Moreover, mentioning that he was Jewish is equally disgusting, as it is an attempt to allow him the license to say the types of things he said. In fact Fischer denied his Jewish roots and spent much of his life in a fringe crackpot Christian congregation that blew apart in scandal. He was a bigot of the worst sort who proclaimed his love of Hitler and was a holocaust denier.

I was just reading the wiki on Fischer. He was exiled from the U.S. (for not paying taxes) actually since the match with Spassky.

He blamed the Jews.

Apparently, on 9/11 he said that the U.S. got what they deserved and wrote Bin Laden a letter to the effect saying "I'm with ya dude." (my translation)

Fischer drafted a letter to Osama bin Laden, which began:[297][298]

Dear Mr. Osama bin Laden allow me to introduce myself. I am Bobby Fischer, the World Chess Champion. First of all you should know that I share your hatred of the murderous bandit state of "Israel" and its chief backer the Jew-controlled U.S.A. also know [sic] as the "Jewnited States" or "Israel West." We also have something else in common: We are both fugitives from the U.S. "justice" system.

35 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:46:44pm

Sorry for the repeat post, but this dude's a dangerous lunatic and I don't think this can be exposed too much. People can argue about what he did or didn't write, but we've got him on aduiotape with the idiocy excerpted below. This is not Lew Rockwell.

And this is the end result of extremist "small government" ideology.

Ron Paul: Korea Conflict May Be Orchestrated Crisis To Boost Dollar:

[...]

Speaking to the Alex Jones Show, Congressman Paul said it was frightening that people in the Obama administration were advocating war as a means of escaping the economic crisis, saying that North Korea stood no chance whatsoever of successfully defeating South Korea in any conflict.

Paul speculated that the US military-industrial complex was, Doing it deliberately, and sort of orchestrating this in order to have the military-industrial complex benefit and the dollar temporarily benefit.

[Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]

36 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:46:58pm

" While I may not have written those words, as Editor, I have to accept responsibility for those words appearing in my newsletter. As soon as I was made aware of those words, I wrote and published the following retraction and apology, and immediately determined who the writer was. The writer and the editorial staff that were responsible for allowing that to be printed have been dismissed."

That is the only correct way he could have responded. Since that didn't happen, we can only assume that he either wrote it or had no problem putting his name to it at the time.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:47:08pm

re: #1 marjoriemoon

Holy cow! This is more of an eye opener about Bobby Fischer than Ron Paul!

Fischer was mentally ill. Paul is running for president.

38 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:47:20pm

re: #32 goddamnedfrank

Weed. It really is that simple.

Also, the non-interventionist foreign policy, but mostly yeah - the weed. Where he tends to lose young people is on reproductive rights and shutting down the Department of Education, that is when they're not too stoned to notice.

39 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:47:29pm

re: #22 bloodstar

I'm under the impression though, that he hasn't accepted responsibility.

His position essentially is that he stands by what is written in the newsletters that is not too controversial, and those things that might be too controversial were written by someone else, and that he won't say who, because it's old news and not important, or he forgot who they are.

It's not the kind of excuse you would accept from a high school kid.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:47:37pm

re: #4 Charles

Sorry, but I do NOT believe Lew Rockwell wrote Ron Paul's newsletters. He's a convenient scapegoat. Ron Paul wrote this stuff.

I don't care who wrote it. Did Paul allow it to go out with his name on the document?

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:48:04pm

re: #7 reine.de.tout

Even if Ron Paul did NOT write this stuff, the fact is that it was published under his name. Either he wrote it, or he accepted these words written by somebody else, and he is responsible for it.

If he didn't know what was being said? Then the man isn't paying sufficient attention to the details of what's being done in his name to be qualified for any public position.

It wasn't one column that slipped through, either. There's years of this stuff.

42 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:48:06pm

re: #30 _RememberTonyC

It is because he advocates the legalization of marijuana ... Very popular among the young 'uns

True. But I suspect the Ayn Randian philosophy is what's attracting them mostly.

43 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:49:13pm

re: #34 marjoriemoon

I...I'm starting to think that Fischer might not like Jews...

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:49:44pm

re: #18 JasonA

I really don't understand why this is so difficult for him to understand.

Because, I think, he believes that he should be able to say what he likes without there being consequences.

45 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:50:44pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

Fischer was mentally ill. Paul is running for president.

Yea, but already knew Paul is a lunatic.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:51:23pm

re: #36 Petero1818

" While I may not have written those words, as Editor, I have to accept responsibility for those words appearing in my newsletter. As soon as I was made aware of those words, I wrote and published the following retraction and apology, and immediately determined who the writer was. The writer and the editorial staff that were responsible for allowing that to be printed have been dismissed."

That is the only correct way he could have responded. Since that didn't happen, we can only assume that he either wrote it or had no problem putting his name to it at the time.

He defended pieces of it. There is no way this stuff doesn't represent his views...or worse, doesn't represent his views, but he knew it would appeal to certain people.

47 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:51:47pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

Because, I think, he believes that he should be able to say what he likes without there being consequences.

At least we can take comfort in the knowledge that he will never be President.

48 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:53:09pm

re: #47 JasonA

At least we can take comfort in the knowledge that he will never be President.

But the way the new primary system works he can be enormously influential deep into the GOP primary season. He can be second or third in a lot of states.

49 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:53:49pm

re: #42 marjoriemoon

True. But I suspect the Ayn Randian philosophy is what's attracting them mostly.

Nope, it's the weed. Young people care more about watching reruns of Sifl 'n Olly than knowing who Ayn Rand was. As far as they're concerned she's just a name that hipsters drop when discussing the backstory origins of Bioshock.

50 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:54:09pm

"They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them ... I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they [campaign aides] said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'"

He refuses to accept responsibility.

51 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:54:18pm

In a world where site hosts are held accountable for the words of anonymous commentators, I feel safe holding Paul accountable for this. Hell, this would be more like Charles promoting an offensive post to the front page.

52 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:58:29pm

re: #50 jaunte

"They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them ... I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they [campaign aides] said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'"

He refuses to accept responsibility.

Accepting responsibility is too confusing.

53 Mattand  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:58:45pm

re: #49 goddamnedfrank

As far as they're concerned she's just a name that hipsters drop when discussing the backstory origins of Bioshock.

I don't think of Bioshock so much as a game as an accurate documentary of how a libertarian government would actually work.

54 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:59:56pm

re: #49 goddamnedfrank

Nope, it's the weed. Young people care more about watching reruns of Sifl 'n Olly than knowing who Ayn Rand was. As far as they're concerned she's just a name that hipsters drop when discussing the backstory origins of Bioshock.

Yea, but you can buy weed anywhere in any city in the U.S., large or small.

I think pots definitely an incentive, but young people who follow him dig the Randian thing. "All the money I make, I should keep. I have no obligation to society. Why should I have to pay for roads and schools and such that I don't use?" Pot heads in general don't have a huge interest in politics.

55 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:00:21pm

May 23, 1996, Austin American-Statesman:

"Dr. Paul is being quoted out of context," [Paul spokesman Michael] Sullivan said. "It's like picking up War and Peace and reading the fourth paragraph on Page 481 and thinking you can understand what's going on." [...]

Also in 1992, Paul wrote, "Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions."

Sullivan said Paul does not consider people who disagree with him to be sensible. And most blacks, Sullivan said, do not share Paul's views. The issue is political philosophy, not race, Sullivan said.

"Polls show that only about 5 percent of people with dark-colored skin support the free market, a laissez faire economy, an end to welfare and to affirmative action," Sullivan said.

56 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:00:42pm

re: #35 Talking Point Detective

Sorry for the repeat post, but this dude's a dangerous lunatic and I don't think this can be exposed too much. People can argue about what he did or didn't write, but we've got him on aduiotape with the idiocy excerpted below. This is not Lew Rockwell.

And this is the end result of extremist "small government" ideology.

[Link: www.prisonplanet.com...]

Next he'll be claiming that:

The Illegal Obama Administration poisoned Kim Jong Il to stir up a foreign crisis and sabotage the Ron Paul Revolution!

Note to all: I've made very clear I vote for Obama over Paul, so don't try to lay this nutcase on me.

57 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:02:50pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

Next he'll be claiming that:

Note to all: I've made very clear I vote for Obama over Paul, so don't try to lay this nutcase on me.

We won't. But his ideas are a poison to your party, and his current popularity does not bode well. Jeez, if he wins Iowa... It would be like if Kucinich won New Hampshire or something.

58 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:04:43pm

Revolution indeed.

59 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:05:11pm

re: #55 jaunte

May 23, 1996, Austin American-Statesman:

Would you please tell Mr. Sullivan that the laundry called and said to tell him his Klan robes were ready to pick up?

/spits

60 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:06:51pm

It's the Ron Paul Revulsion! *hurl*

61 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:11:31pm


Hannity: I gotta run. Let me ask you one last question. Do you know who did write it and do you repudiate what was in your newsletter?

Paul: I do not. And I don’t believe anything, any of that stuff that they’ve quoted.

Ron Paul has had three years to formulate a response to these questions, since Jamie Kirchick​’s investigation into his newsletters came out in The New Republic. He had to know that he was going to get asked about this at some point during his campaign. And that’s his answer? That he doesn’t know who wrote these things? That’s completely unacceptable.

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

62 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:13:06pm

Hey, I just noticed something on that page. At the end it mentions that the author wrote a book on abortion. Did Paul write one?

63 Mattand  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:13:42pm

re: #57 JasonA

We won't. But his ideas are a poison to your party, and his current popularity does not bode well. Jeez, if he wins Iowa... It would be like if Kucinich won New Hampshire or something.

I wouldn't call it a lock, but if Paul wins IA I don't Obama will be sweating November as much.

64 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:14:01pm

re: #62 JasonA

Hey, I just noticed something on that page. At the end it mentions that the author wrote a book on abortion. Did Paul write one?

Oh yeah, he did...

[Link: files.meetup.com...]

65 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:15:14pm

re: #63 mattand

I wouldn't call it a lock, but if Paul wins IA I don't Obama will be sweating November as much.

Definitely not a lock, but I have never thought a Paul win in Iowa as possible as I do now.

But there's no way he's getting the nomination. It's just not gonna happen.

66 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:15:53pm

re: #62 JasonA

Just $599.99 at Amazon: [Link: www.amazon.com...]

67 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:15:54pm

Jews. Illuminati. Same difference.

*spit*

68 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:16:37pm

re: #66 jaunte

Just $599 at Amazon: [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Fuck gold, I'm investing in Ron Paul first editions!

69 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:20:48pm

re: #68 JasonA

Fuck gold, I'm investing in Ron Paul first editions!

$599 for a Ron Paul first edition = Proof that there's a sucker born every minute.

70 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:20:56pm

re: #66 jaunte

Just $599 at Amazon: [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Ah, that must be the "latest book" he was talking about. Seems that one came out in 1990. The article we're looking at here is from '92. Maybe he'd just brush this off as an "editor's note" though.

71 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:21:38pm

re: #70 JasonA

We can't be certain he wrote it, of course.

72 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:22:50pm

re: #71 jaunte

We can't be certain he wrote it, of course.

I see what you did there.

73 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:23:56pm

re: #66 jaunte

Just $599 at Amazon: [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Dear Earth...

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:24:17pm

re: #62 JasonA

Hey, I just noticed something on that page. At the end it mentions that the author wrote a book on abortion. Did Paul write one?

He's an OB/GYN.

75 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:24:25pm

And for a break from the Bad Craziness, complete with a nice touch of cuteness and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker doing something even those who want him recalled will say was the right thing, here is Charlotte the Cheesehead Orphan Deer:

76 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:26:04pm

Whoa!

Can't Stop Nature

77 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:28:17pm

re: #61 jaunte

Ron Paul has had three years to formulate a response to these questions, since Jamie Kirchick​’s investigation into his newsletters came out in The New Republic. He had to know that he was going to get asked about this at some point during his campaign. And that’s his answer? That he doesn’t know who wrote these things? That’s completely unacceptable.

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

One follow up question...did you ask who wrote it?

78 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:28:56pm

re: #38 goddamnedfrank

Also, the non-interventionist foreign policy, but mostly yeah - the weed. Where he tends to lose young people is on reproductive rights and shutting down the Department of Education, that is when they're not too stoned to notice.

No need to backpedal. You had it right the first time. ;)

79 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:30:19pm

re: #62 JasonA

Hey, I just noticed something on that page. At the end it mentions that the author wrote a book on abortion. Did Paul write one?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

80 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:30:36pm

re: #77 Petero1818

Are you asking me? I was quoting Alana Goodman (author of the linked piece); I don't know if she asked who wrote it, but Sean Hannity did ask Paul the question, as have others. He won't say.

81 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:32:00pm

I'm curious who people think will be the Republican Nominee? I'm still absolutely convinced it won't be Romney. I just think he's unacceptable to too much of the Republican party, despite his best efforts to ... turn hard right.

Gary Johnson has dropped out and is going for the Libertarian ticket... oh, he wasn't going to get it anyway.

Do we think Huntsman can get traction? maybe Bachmann if she has a good showing? Perry? Santorum? Gingrich? Paul?

I'm starting to think it's going to be a brokered convention, Particularly if Paul manages to win Iowa and finish second in NH, then Gingrich wins in SC while Romney wins Florida, Nevada and NH. Maybe They'll try to get Jeb Bush to take the nomination and go for the trifecta. ;)

82 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:32:14pm

re: #80 jaunte

Are you asking me? I was quoting Alana Goodman (author of the linked piece); I don't know if she asked who wrote it, but Sean Hannity did ask Paul the question, as have others. He won't say.

no wasn't asking you. That was the follow up Hannity should have asked if he wasn't such a douche.

83 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:32:43pm

re: #79 Petero1818

That one goes back to '83. The one the unidentified not-Ron-Paul author identified was most likely the one Jaunte found from '90.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

84 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:33:35pm

re: #82 Petero1818

It was probably not by accident the last question. "Oops, times up, gotta run!"

85 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:34:17pm

re: #81 bloodstar

Honestly? I see Romney getting it. No one else really seems like Presidential material to me.

Giving Romney that sort of cred makes me want to vomit in my mouth a little, but there it is.

86 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:35:48pm

re: #81 bloodstar

Herman Cain is coming back baby....that is why he "suspended" his campaign rather than end it.

87 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:36:50pm

re: #86 Petero1818

Herman Cain is coming back baby...that is why he "suspended" his campaign rather than end it.

That should get a Darth Vader "Noooooooooo" :)

88 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:39:41pm

This is cool:
A Horseshoe Einstein Ring from Hubble

Pictured above, the gravity of a luminous red galaxy (LRG) has gravitationally distorted the light from a much more distant blue galaxy. More typically, such light bending results in two discernible images of the distant galaxy, but here the lens alignment is so precise that the background galaxy is distorted into a horseshoe -- a nearly complete ring.

89 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:39:52pm

So, is there any doubt that Luap Nor is bat-shit crazy?

90 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:40:25pm

re: #88 jaunte

This is cool:
A Horseshoe Einstein Ring from Hubble

What color is our galaxy?

milky?

91 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:42:22pm

re: #90 ggt

Starship Asterisk sez: we're yellow

92 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:42:40pm

re: #81 bloodstar

I'm curious who people think will be the Republican Nominee?

An improbable prick, spewing impossible emanations.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:44:25pm

re: #91 jaunte

Starship Asterisk sez: we're yellow

So very cool!

NASA has the best pics.

94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:45:25pm

re: #81 bloodstar

I'm curious who people think will be the Republican Nominee? I'm still absolutely convinced it won't be Romney.

Still too soon to tell, in my book.

ANYTHING is possible.

95 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:45:36pm

re: #81 bloodstar

The GOP has set things up to prevent a brokered convention. After April 1st, all the primaries are winner-take-all. So, as Dick Morris put it, "they've set it up so that the fight's gonna go on until April, but in April its going to end pretty quick."

I think that Romney will win. Some in the base won't like it, but they will be outvoted by the pragmatists.

96 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:45:49pm

re: #88 jaunte

This is cool:
A Horseshoe Einstein Ring from Hubble

Actually, I think that might just be a head-on view of this thing.

97 jaunte  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:47:44pm

re: #96 JasonA

If we walk without rhythm, we won't attract the worm.

98 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:48:21pm

re: #88 jaunte

This is cool:
A Horseshoe Einstein Ring from Hubble

I wonder if they have a Ron Paul out there too. If I see an ET I'll be sure to pass on his literature.

99 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:48:36pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

Next he'll be claiming that:

Note to all: I've made very clear I vote for Obama over Paul, so don't try to lay this nutcase on me.

He won't get the nomination. Sorry, R cons are stuck with these monsters you allowed to be inflicted on your own party.

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:52:31pm

Winter begins tomorrow--no?

101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:54:01pm

re: #97 jaunte

If we walk without rhythm, we won't attract the worm.

FUCK CONFORMITY!! WALK WEIRD!!

102 BeenHereAwhile  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:55:51pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

"Jews. Illuminati. Same difference.
*spit*"

And in the fevered mind, the Trilateral Commission ties them all together in a cabal to destroy this nation.

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:56:37pm

re: #101 Slumbering Behemoth

FUCK CONFORMITY!! WALK WEIRD!!

Isn't there a Monty Python skit about that?

104 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:59:32pm

re: #103 ggt

Isn't there a Monty Python skit about that?

Ministry of Silly Walks

105 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:00:32pm

re: #103 ggt

The Ministry of Silly Walks, which inspired me to 'coin' that above phrase.

106 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:00:34pm

re: #102 BeenHereAwhile

"Jews. Illuminati. Same difference.
*spit*"

And in the fevered mind, the Trilateral Commission ties them all together in a cabal to destroy this nation.

THE GLOMAR EXPLORER WAS AN ILLUMINATI SUPER WEAPON BUILT TO UNLEASH CTHULHU!

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:02:02pm

Tell me again, what's the problem with same-sex marriage?

108 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:02:34pm

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth

How do you remember all these things?

109 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:04:47pm

re: #108 ggt

re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth

How do you remember all these things?

How can you not?

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:05:05pm

re: #108 ggt

Born and raised in the Bay Area, where PBS did not suck.

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:05:09pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How can you not?

Mommy Brain.

112 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:06:28pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

Born in raised in the Bay Area, where PBS did not suck.

WTTW in Chicago is rather good, IMHO.

113 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:07:01pm

Is there a Winter Soltice song we should be practicing to sing tonite?

114 Winny Spencer  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:09:44pm

Mittens will be the GOP nominee.

115 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:11:27pm

re: #113 ggt

Is there a Winter Soltice song we should be practicing to sing tonite?

116 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:14:19pm

re: #107 ggt

Tell me again, what's the problem with same-sex marriage?

Not the point of that page, though I do find it's claims dubious.

If I gave half a twitter, I might find a minor "give a fuck" to research it.

As it is, I am not married, have no wish to be so, and see no reason why my choice for such abstinence could kill this nation or it's economy.

117 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:14:47pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

The GOP has set things up to prevent a brokered convention. After April 1st, all the primaries are winner-take-all. So, as Dick Morris put it, "they've set it up so that the fight's gonna go on until April, but in April its going to end pretty quick."

I think that Romney will win. Some in the base won't like it, but they will be outvoted by the pragmatists.

If Dick Morris said it, I generally assume the opposite to be the most likely...

118 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:19:55pm

re: #114 Winny Spencer

Mittens will be the GOP nominee.

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

I think that Romney will win. Some in the base won't like it, but they will be outvoted by the pragmatists.

Dark and Winny in a tree,
Fantasizing Mitt Romney...

Really boys...show some restraint...there are ladies present.

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:22:13pm

Any PhotoShop geeks here?

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:23:04pm

re: #116 Slumbering Behemoth

Not the point of that page, though I do find it's claims dubious.

If I gave half a twitter, I might find a minor "give a fuck" to research it.

As it is, I am not married, have no wish to be so, and see no reason why my choice for such abstinence could kill this nation or it's economy.

I agree.

My point is that if a 2-parent household promotes economic stability in the next generation . . . .same-sex marriage should be a good thing.

121 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:26:29pm

re: #119 ggt

Any PhotoShop geeks here?

I've seen a few shops in my days...

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:27:13pm

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've seen a few shops in my days...

OK, how do I get my layers to merge?

and appear on the main area where I can see what they look like all together?

123 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:27:13pm

re: #117 JasonA

If Dick Morris said it, I generally assume the opposite to be the most likely...

His analysis of the likely outcome of the primary rules is sound, and its is something he knows a great deal about. Further, he was giving analysis about process and its likely results, not about the issues or candidates themselves. On that sort of question, Morris can be relied on.

124 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:27:44pm

re: #118 darthstar

That's just being an ass.

125 Kragar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:29:33pm

re: #122 ggt

OK, how do I get my layers to merge?

and appear on the main area where I can see what they look like all together?

No clue. I haven't used it in years

126 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:30:37pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

His analysis of the likely outcome of the primary rules is sound, and its is something he knows a great deal about. Further, he was giving analysis about process and its likely results, not about the issues or candidates themselves. On that sort of question, Morris can be relied on.

I know, I know, but I am just so used to that man being wrong.

127 darthstar  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:31:58pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

That's just being an ass.

Go right for the meat, why don't you!

128 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:35:41pm

re: #127 darthstar

Go right for the meat, why don't you!

You're all meat--oh wait, that isn't right.

:0

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:39:32pm

I can't decide if this little guy is cute or not.

Would you want your kid to have a plush toy that looked like him?

This one, OTOH, is uber cute.

130 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:40:11pm

re: #120 ggt

Possibly compelling arguments in that page, but I'm just not seeing the catch. I'm just not sure that a downtrend in marriage, especially at an early age, is an indicator of an economic trend.

And just to be clear, I am as dumb as a stump when it comes to economic theory, and I have never been married.

Bah! I'm tanked. Laters and Peace.

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:42:05pm
132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:46:03pm

re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth

Possibly compelling arguments in that page, but I'm just not seeing the catch. I'm just not sure that a downtrend in marriage, especially at an early age, is an indicator of an economic trend.

And just to be clear, I am as dumb as a stump when it comes to economic theory, and I have never been married.

Bah! I'm tanked. Laters and Peace.

What I see is this:

Traditional thinking says that there are people in this world who are capable of earning enough income to support a family (men) AND that there are people who are capable of earning supplemental income (women). It make sense for those two to exist in the same household. The income generated by the lower-wage earner can be put into savings, or sacrificed in favor of child-rearing, home-making, charity work etc.

The Way things are now, the low-wage earner (women) are choosing not to marry (for money) and are mucking up the social order by going to medical school, having kids without fathers, sucking off the entitlement system --ore--eeeeek! not having kids at all!

133 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:51:14pm

re: #131 ggt

Go Ahead, Tell Obama what it means to you!

No thanks. I can cut my food budget to make up the difference, or just cut my small 'fun' budget entirely.

$80 a month is not enough to get me to switch sides, even if it meant my DirecTV being shut off.

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:53:25pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

No thanks. I can cut my food budget to make up the difference, or just cut my small 'fun' budget entirely.

$80 a month is not enough to get me to switch sides, even if it meant my DirecTV being shut off.

I think the point is not to switch sides, but to help end gridlock in Congress. Does it matter who does it?

135 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:54:33pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

No thanks. I can cut my food budget to make up the difference, or just cut my small 'fun' budget entirely.

$80 a month is not enough to get me to switch sides, even if it meant my DirecTV being shut off.

So you're okay with the payroll tax cut being defeated?

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:56:18pm

Obama is the POTUS right now --to both Republicans and Democrats.

137 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:59:02pm

re: #135 JasonA

So you're okay with the payroll tax cut being defeated?

No, I'm actually pissed off at the House GOP for playing this bullshit game. But my anger doesn't extend to petitioning them through a Democratic White House. And in sober point of fact, I myself don't have anything to petition over: My congresswoman is a Democrat, and the GOP congressman I directly supported last year (Robert Dold, from my parents' old district) is one of the one's likely to have voted for the Senate bill had he been allowed to do so.

138 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:59:45pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

No, I'm actually pissed off at the House GOP for playing this bullshit game. But my anger doesn't extend to petitioning them through a Democratic White House. And in sober point of fact, I myself don't have anything to petition over: My congresswoman is a Democrat, and the GOP congressman I directly supported last year (Robert Dold, from my parents' old district) is one of the one's likely to have voted for the Senate bill had he been allowed to do so.

So much for working together to accomplish anything.

139 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:00:16pm

re: #134 ggt

I think the point is not to switch sides, but to help end gridlock in Congress. Does it matter who does it?

No, it's not. The point is to give Obama political ammo to fire at the GOP. And I'm not fool enough to provide it.

140 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:00:35pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

It's your White House too.

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:02:17pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. The point is to give Obama political ammo to fire at the GOP. And I'm not fool enough to provide it.

Why?

Obama is not the enemy. He is the POTUS, he will be POTUS for the next 5 years.

The GOP is fucking-up.

142 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:04:15pm

re: #141 ggt

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office. And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:04:30pm

I'm rather impressed that I even get emails from the White House. This is the first POTUS to bother.

The form I put in the Pages came to my attention thru email--from whitehouse.gov.

Not a Political Party --which is usually how elected critters communicate to me.

144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:04:40pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. The point is to give Obama political ammo to fire at the GOP. And I'm not fool enough to provide it.

Doesn't need it.

Not everything is a war.

145 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:05:43pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office. And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

I don't get your position.

Really.

146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:05:54pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office.

This, from the person who points and cries about everyone else's "partisanship" every other day. e_e

And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

And you're certain of this because...

147 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:07:11pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office. And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

Favorited. Can't wait to throw this back at you come November. :)

148 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:07:41pm

Seriously, Dark, you need to wean yourself off of Fox News for a while.

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:10:23pm

Obama and the Democrats seem rather benign to me compared to the Birchers GOP.

And, I am a capitalist.

150 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:11:32pm

re: #146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You need to stop the 'mirror imaging'. It's a bit worn as an act.

151 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:16:14pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. The point is to give Obama political ammo to fire at the GOP. And I'm not fool enough to provide it.

You just said that you're "pissed off at the House GOP for playing this bullshit game," but you're not going to actually voice your anger publicly. This is more Stockholm syndrome than a rational political identity.

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office. And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

LOL, whatever. If there's one thing this election cycle truly hasn't been kind to it's predictions containing with the phrase "mark my words."

152 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:21:11pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office.

P.S. At least you admit it simply comes down to team mascots. Thumbs up on not mentioning any actual policy, just pure partisan tribalism, the self and the other.

153 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:22:16pm

re: #151 goddamnedfrank

The only people I could say anything to that would be listened to by their staff aren't part of the problem. Thus there's nothing to be said. Mark Kirk voted for the compromise, and I think Dold would if he could.

Note: I confine myself here to those two here. While much of my family lives in Peter Roskum's district (and Roskum could go either way), I'm not his constituent and I do not know him.

154 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:22:43pm

I guess I'm just not a joiner.

It's like the Chicago White Sox vs. Chicago Cubs

They are both baseball teams from Chicago-no?

Democrats vs. Republicans?

They are both Political Partys --no?

My identity isn't wrapped up in such things.

155 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:23:49pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office. And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

Note the bolded part, Frank. "A big part" does not mean "the biggest part".

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:26:24pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

Note the bolded part, Frank. "A big part" does not mean "the biggest part".

Which begs the question . . .

What is the biggest part?

157 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:28:20pm

re: #156 ggt

Which begs the question . . .

What is the biggest part?

Policy, and overall philosophy.


But that really must wait for another time. It's past 1 am here, and I must sleep.

Goodnight.

158 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:28:58pm

re: #156 ggt

Which begs the question . . .

What is the biggest part?

Urge to tell disgusting joke rising...

159 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:29:17pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

Policy, and overall philosophy.

But that really must wait for another time. It's past 1 am here, and I must sleep.

Goodnight.

Notice that nothing specific was proffered, nor ever will be.

160 palomino  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:30:39pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Enemy, no. But he's part of the other party, and that's a big part of why I want him gone from his office. And he won't be president even 14 months from now, mark my words.

What makes you so sure? I'd say it's about 50-50. Obama's chances are hurt by the economy for sure, but it's not as if he's widely hated and his approval ratings don't make him unelectable.

And your party's potential nominees leave a lot to be desired. Really think Newt or Ron Paul could win a general election? Romney's probably your only hope, and he's certainly not the second coming of Reagan.

A lot of partisans on both sides are deluded--they think the other side has no chance in 2012--and they live in an info bubble. But in a bad economy the incumbent is always vulnerable; OTOH, the GOP has no shining star. So it could go either way, and will likely be close.

161 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:30:50pm

re: #159 goddamnedfrank

Notice that nothing specific was proffered, nor ever will be.

I've heard that from other people I know.

Boils down to inability to cope with or understand the Country's needs in the Brave New World.

Paradigm shifted already. Like it or not, we must remain relevant.

162 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:34:07pm

I have a full day tomorrow. (later today)

Have a great one!

163 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 20, 2011 11:34:48pm

re: #158 JasonA

Urge to tell disgusting joke rising...

I think ego is usually the biggest part.

:0

night again.

164 Olsonist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:48:34am

I grew up as a big Bobby Fischer fan. We all were. My copy of his book "My 60 Memorable Games" did not survive multiple re-readings. Best chess book ever. In fact, I just ordered another copy of the descriptive notation first edition off of Alibris.

Kasparov himself said the distance between Fischer and his contemporaries was greater than for any other champion. He crushed, just mowed down, Taimonov and Larsen. Then after dropping one against Petrosian because of the flu, he obliterated that former world champion.

Against Spassky in an era before chess computers when the Russians would have 35 grandmasters doing overnight analysis of ajourned positions, Bobby went bowling and then out analyzed them at the table.

We kind of knew he was nuts, a religious fanatic. That much was in the news. But the hard core antisemitism, the Naziism was kept out of the press. He was after all a national hero.

I'm still as big a Fischer fan as ever. If anything, I learned to distrust the press. More than anything, I felt sorry for him.

165 researchok  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:17:09am

Morning, all

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:59:16am

re: #1 marjoriemoon

Holy cow! This is more of an eye opener about Bobby Fischer than Ron Paul!

This stuff is rather well-known though.

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:12:53am

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

You need to

I need to do fuck-all. You are not in control of anything I write.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:13:52am

re: #4 Charles

Sorry, but I do NOT believe Lew Rockwell wrote Ron Paul's newsletters. He's a convenient scapegoat. Ron Paul wrote this stuff.

Actually, there is strong evidence that Lew Rockwell was, indeed, a chief ghostwriter for the newsletter. I know you don't like links to Reason, so I won't post one, but the piece is called "Who Wrote Ron Paul's Newsletters?", and it is detailed enough not to be a simple excuse.

If Paul wrote some of the stuff, it doesn't mean he wrote all of it. It could be part him, part others. Paul is responsible either way.

Also, the Ob-Gyn mag ref is indeed a piece of evidence that Paul himself wrote this anti-abortion note, because he himself is an ob-gyn, so this is a significant match.

However, this piece of evidence doesn't settle the matter, because for example in ignorant creationist tracts you will also see alleged citations of scientific journals which you know the yahoos don't actually read. It could be the same in this case - some incestous quotation from an anti-abortionist tract. That's how the kooks roll. They don't need to actually read specialist journals to "cite" them.

169 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:15:52am

re: #160 palomino

What makes you so sure?

[Link: medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...]

170 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:30:57am

*sigh* Well, at least I know Chrome works. Small favors, I guess.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:33:15am

re: #8 jaunte

I don't think Lew Rockwell 'received a call from a minister' to speak against 'pro-death unethical trends' at a 'major Texas medical center.' Ron Paul definitely wrote that paragraph and there is no reason to believe he didn't write the rest of the surrounding paragraphs.

Jaunte, please note that it is a job of a ghostwriter to actually imitate the writer. Just because Sarah Palin's book has "I" all over the place doesn't mean she penned a single letter of it ;)

172 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:35:41am

And I'll pimp the blog I represent here a bit, with an old posting by Jon Harrison about the folks with whom Ron Paul was associated for a long time:

Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell and Scientific Racism

PS: it's a secondary matter to me whether Paul wrote most or none of that newsletter. That's the milieu he comes from.

173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:41:32am

re: #107 ggt

Tell me again, what's the problem with same-sex marriage?

It gives the inferiors the same rights as the superiors.

That confuses the superiors, not that that ever takes much.

Seriously, though, I've been accompanying my BFF to divorce court...it's unreal the stupidity and ignorance that pervades the typical heterosexual divorce case. Dumbfrack father doesn't have a license or insurance, or a car seat, arrives 3 hours late to pick up the baby because he's off grudge-fucking the woman he just married to make the ex jealous and expects sex from said ex to get child support....so f'n stupid lol

And yet, we're supposed to believe, same sex marriage is bad for the chilllldrennnn. e_e

174 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:43:47am

re: #172 Sergey Romanov

And I'll pimp the blog I represent here a bit, with an old posting by Jon Harrison about the folks with whom Ron Paul was associated for a long time:

Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell and Scientific Racism

PS: it's a secondary matter to me whether Paul wrote most or none of that newsletter. That's the milieu he comes from.

Yep.

Straight-up, capital-C Confederate conservatives.

Dumb, stupid, miserable bigots.

175 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:08:09am

re: #168 Sergey Romanov

I remember the same discussion there 4 years ago. You're right, whether he wrote it or not he was the guy responsible.

I've posted Reason links, I didn't realize that was an issue.

176 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:14:16am

re: #175 RogueOne

I remember the same discussion there 4 years ago. You're right, whether he wrote it or not he was the guy responsible.

I've posted Reason links, I didn't realize that was an issue.

Besides moral responsibility (as Charles points out, there's no way Paul at least didn't know what was in these newsletters), there's a question of competence. Paul couldn't even keep his own house in order, and now he wants to run a country? Heh.

177 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:32:17am

I wonder if Romney feels the same about Manning:

Romney to Conf. of Prez's: I'm undecided on Pollard
[Link: washingtonjewishweek.com...]

Mitt Romney wouldn't commit to moving the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and said that he hasn't yet decided if the Israeli spymaster Jonathan Pollard should be released from prison, according to a source who attended an off-the-record sit down yesterday with the Republican candidate that was organized by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

"He answered [questions] very frankly," said one attendee.

On the topic of Pollard, Romney said that he "was open to examining" the issue, but stopped short of saying that he would free the spy from federal prison, the source said.

178 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:42:30am

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

Paul .... wants to run a country? Heh.

No, he just wants to campaign for the Presidency of a country and have his voice heard.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:49:04am

re: #178 ralphieboy

No, he just wants to campaign for the Presidency of a country and have his voice heard.

So it's just a political gimmick for him? Okay.

180 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:52:19am

The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco
How did Republicans manage to lose the tax issue to Obama?
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

The GOP leaders have somehow managed the remarkable feat of being blamed for opposing a one-year extension of a tax holiday that they are surely going to pass. This is no easy double play.

Republicans have also achieved the small miracle of letting Mr. Obama position himself as an election-year tax cutter, although he's spent most of his Presidency promoting tax increases and he would hit the economy with one of the largest tax increases ever in 2013. This should be impossible.

House Republicans yesterday voted down the Senate's two-month extension of the two-percentage-point payroll tax holiday to 4.2% from 6.2%. They say the short extension makes no economic sense, but then neither does a one-year extension. No employer is going to hire a worker based on such a small and temporary decrease in employment costs, as this year's tax holiday has demonstrated. The entire exercise is political, but Republicans have thoroughly botched the politics.

Their first mistake was adopting the President's language that he is proposing a tax cut rather than calling it a temporary tax holiday. People will understand the difference—and discount the benefit.

I'll say the same thing I said about the dems last week.... pass the damn thing, bitch about it, and move the hell on.

181 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:54:09am

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

I think Ralphie may have a point. I'm not sure Ron Paul is delusional enough to believe he actually has a shot at winning the nomination. I don't see any problem with him using the presidential primaries to push his ideology.

182 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:55:33am

re: #181 RogueOne

I think Ralphie may have a point. I'm not sure Ron Paul is delusional enough to believe he actually has a shot at winning the nomination. I don't see any problem with him using the presidential primaries to push his ideology.

It's politically OK, of course. The point is, he is still running for presidency, so he should be judged by the standards of fitness for presidency.

183 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:56:26am

morning all!

184 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:57:53am

re: #183 ggt

Hey there.

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:58:48am

sup?

186 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:03:34am

I wish I could stand to watch O'reilly. Morning Joe keeps playing some Clinton interview clips and it looks like it was a great interview.

187 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:05:03am

Syria crisis: 'Nearly 200 lives lost' in last two days
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Almost 200 people have died in two days of clashes in Syria, activists say, as the violence there intensifies.

Two activist groups put Tuesday's toll at 84 - the majority in Idlib province in the north-west.

Video has emerged of a young boy, whose body was apparently torn in half by shelling in the city of Homs.

The bloodshed comes a day before an advance group of Arab League monitors is due to arrive to oversee the implementation of a peace initiative.

The UN said earlier this month that more than 5,000 people had been killed across Syria since protests against President Bashar al-Assad erupted in March.

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:05:23am

re: #186 RogueOne

I wish I could stand to watch O'reilly. Morning Joe keeps playing some Clinton interview clips and it looks like it was a great interview.

I KNOW. Hubby said it was a great interview. O'Reilly isn't going to pull any of his BS with a POTUS. I still can't stand him (O'Reilly).

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:07:27am

This clip is what was shown on one of state-controlled channels a few days ago:


It mocks Putin heavily. Weird. There were a lot of hypotheses about it being a controlled letting off of steam. Dunno. Against this hypothesis there is the fact that the program basically advertised the next big demonstration against falsification of elections on Dec. 24, naming both the date and the place (Sakharova avenue). Weird.
190 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:08:52am

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

So it's just a political gimmick for him? Okay.

I think he is intelligent enough to know that he will never win, he just wants to get his point(s) across.

191 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:20:17am

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

We're going to have to take your word on it, he sounds foreign. For all we know he's talking about donuts.

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:20:51am

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

Top comments under the clip:

Putin is supported by 44% of the population. Out of 146%.

Kim Jong-il has already died laughing at this...

193 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:22:46am

Is there an arrow big enough?

194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:25:54am

Uh oh. There's a "Rick Perry is a closeted gay man" meme out of the blue:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

My first response is extreme doubt. We'll see how it goes, of course.

195 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:27:43am

re: #194 Sergey Romanov

Uh oh. There's a "Rick Perry is a closeted gay man" meme out of the blue:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

My first response is extreme doubt. We'll see how it goes, of course.

It's the hair.

196 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:28:31am

re: #195 ggt

It's the hair.

I could ask "which one", but I'm going no further!

//

197 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:29:15am

re: #194 Sergey Romanov

Uh oh. There's a "Rick Perry is a closeted gay man" meme out of the blue:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

My first response is extreme doubt. We'll see how it goes, of course.

"I know. I just want to make him deny it."

198 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:29:38am

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

Kind of makes Putin look weak-- or is it to allow a bigger crackdown on subversives?

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:30:09am

re: #197 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"I know. I just want to make him deny it."

What? He is married and a father.

what more proof do you need?

/:0

200 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:30:55am

re: #194 Sergey Romanov

Uh oh. There's a "Rick Perry is a closeted gay man" meme out of the blue:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

My first response is extreme doubt. We'll see how it goes, of course.

Looks like a guy trying to sell a book, to me.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:34:40am

re: #198 Obdicut

Kind of makes Putin look weak-- or is it to allow a bigger crackdown on subversives?

By now, a big crackdown on the peaceful 24 demo could, in fact, lead to catastrophic consequences for the regime. Maybe not fall, but at least a start of the fall. So they would avoid it at all costs, like they did during the last demo, when not a single person was arrested and the cop behavior was exemplar (not by accident, of course).

So it's not the "come to me, bandar-logs" moment (altho Putin said exactly that during the last QA, and this is one of the things mocked in the clip, as you can see by Mowgli excerpts).

I don't know what it is. I'm kinda too cynical to suppose that this is a result of some NTV journalists having an "enough is enough" moment. But it could be that too. The NTV report about the last demo was the most lengthy and fair among the federal channels, and there were rumors ("officially" debunked, but that couldn't have been otherwise), that the news guy actually refused to go online if there wasn't a slot covering the demo.

202 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:34:51am

re: #199 ggt

What? He is married and a father.

what more proof do you need?

/:0

Oh, if I had a nickel for every "family values" politician who came out of the closet...

203 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:36:04am

re: #200 Obdicut

Looks like a guy trying to sell a book, to me.

You beat me to it. Yeah, this is right up there with "is Obama really a Muslim?"

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:36:29am

re: #200 Obdicut

Looks like a guy trying to sell a book, to me.

Yep. But wasn't it the same with Ted Haggard?
I would need much stronger evidence than that. But it doesn't seem to be a Larry Sinclair level, if you know what I mean.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:37:18am

bbl

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:38:01am

Shalom, y'all. Happy Hannukah!

207 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:38:19am

Hey honcs!

I drove in to work this morning in a dense fog. It was really weird, like being in "Inception." The building where I work is all lit up and can usually be seen at a distance from the freeway, this morning it was totally hidden.

Nothing looked the same.

208 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:38:29am

re: #203 Gus 802

You beat me to it. Yeah, this is right up there with "is Obama really a Muslim?"

Of course he is. He's the most piss-poor, apostate of a Muslim, but he's a Muslim! I have it on good authority!

///

209 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:40:05am

re: #203 Gus 802

You beat me to it. Yeah, this is right up there with "is Obama really a Muslim?"

It could be a bunch of crap, maybe is, but it's not right up there with what is basically a racist slur*.

---
* No, I don't imply "Muslim" is a slur or a race.

210 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:42:49am

Reuters Hanukkah Caption FAIL

Rabbi Yehuda Teichtal (3rd R) lights a giant menorah during a ceremony in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin, December 20, 2011. Hanukkah, also known as the Festival of Lights, is one of the most important Jewish holidays and is celebrated by Jews worldwide.

Nope, it's actually the least important holiday in the Jewish calendar, and would not get nearly as much attention if it occurred in February or August. Reminds me of the caption fail describing Tisha B'Av fast day as "festivities." Also Reuters, but not sure, might have been AP.

211 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:43:12am

re: #209 Sergey Romanov

It could be a bunch of crap, maybe is, but it's not right up there with what is basically a racist slur*.

---
* No, I don't imply "Muslim" is a slur or a race.

Well, my comparison could be analyzed and deconstructed. That's for certain. Let me put it another way. It's stupid. Cheap gutter politics.

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:43:34am

re: #203 Gus 802

You beat me to it. Yeah, this is right up there with "is Obama really a Muslim?"

But riffing on that...

OK, Rick Perry can end the controversy very simply!

The allegation there is that "He had a little dick". [true quote]

Barack Obama has presented his birth certificate.

Time for Rick Perry to put up!

///

213 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:44:14am

re: #211 Gus 802

Well, my comparison could be analyzed and deconstructed. That's for certain. Let me put it another way. It's stupid. Cheap gutter politics.

Which is pretty much par for the course in election-year politics.

214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:44:39am

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

One "n", two "k"s. It must be hard to be Jewish.

215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:48:25am

Did Charles reduce the editing window? I thought he went to 10 minutes. Or was that a dream.

I've had some very vivid dreams lately.

216 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:49:38am

re: #213 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Which is pretty much par for the course in election-year politics.

Worthy of Gawker or TMZ perhaps. I stand by my initial comparison.

217 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:50:59am

re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you ever want to have really, really vivid dreams, drink a bunch of tonic water before you go to sleep. The quinine will trip you the hell out.

218 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:51:55am

re: #214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

One "n", two "k"s. It must be hard to be Jewish.

It's also spelled Chanukah, Chanouka, Hanouccah (in France), Januca (in Spanish-speaking lands).

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:54:53am

Not the first time the gay angle has been flown too. This is from 2004:

[Link: www.opednews.com...]

220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:54:58am

re: #217 Obdicut

Guess who used the phrase "Dirt that's been fucked by a hobo" yesterday...

heh...

221 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:55:29am

re: #210 Alouette

The double-ironic part is that a lot-- maybe most-- Christians think that Christmas is the most important Christian holiday, which it isn't. Easter definitely is, with the entire month of Lent being quite important. In Europe, Pentacost is also more important than Christmas.

222 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:55:37am

re: #218 Alouette

It's also spelled Chanukah, Chanouka, Hanouccah (in France), Januca (in Spanish-speaking lands).

Ханука!

223 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 4:57:18am

re: #210 Alouette

Oh, and we went to the menorah-lighting in Central Park last night.

It is really, really ugly. Kind of bafflingly ugly.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

224 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:00:24am

re: #219 Sergey Romanov

Not the first time the gay angle has been flown too. This is from 2004:

[Link: www.opednews.com...]

Jackson Thoreau. Also the author of "The Strange Death of the Woman Who Filed a Rape Lawsuit Against Bush & Other Things the. Bush Administration Doesn t Want You to Know".

225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:00:37am

re: #221 Obdicut

They took every conceivable pagan ritual and other thing they could find related to winter, tossed into the Yahtzee cup, shook it and threw it out... voila! Christmas (which I love).

They did the same thing for Easter, exceptin' related to spring.

Doesn't bother me a bit.

Easter Sunday without the Easter Bunny and the Spring related stuff would be like a Scooby Doo episode. Christmas without Santa and the solstice stuff would be a boring birthday party.

226 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:00:57am

re: #212 Sergey Romanov

But riffing on that...

OK, Rick Perry can end the controversy very simply!

The allegation there is that "He had a little dick". [true quote]

Barack Obama has presented his birth certificate.

Time for Rick Perry to put up!

///

That's a good suggestion but I think we might have seen enough political weiners this year.

227 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:01:17am

14 minutes to launch.

[Link: www.nasa.gov...]

NASA astronaut Don Pettit, Russian cosmonaut Oleg Kononenko and European Space Agency astronaut Andre Kuipers are set to launch aboard their Soyuz TMA-03M spacecraft from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan at 8:16 a.m. EST Wednesday (7:16 p.m. Baikonur time). NASA Television coverage of the launch begins at 7:30 a.m.

228 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:01:24am

re: #221 Obdicut

The double-ironic part is that a lot-- maybe most-- Christians think that Christmas is the most important Christian holiday, which it isn't. Easter definitely is, with the entire month of Lent being quite important. In Europe, Pentacost is also more important than Christmas.

Yom Kippur geld. Easter presents.

'Morning, all. Happy Hannukah, and for you Druids: "Let's keep the Sol in Solstice".

229 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:02:15am

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Easter Sunday without the Easter Bunny and the Spring related stuff would be like a Scooby Doo episode.

Y'know, Shaggy and Western Jesus do look a lot alike.

230 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:02:20am

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Ray Sullivan, a Perry spokesman, told POLITICO that the governor’s team decided to hire Wood in August when “we got wind that” Huffington Post — which he described dismissively as “a liberal web-based media outlet” — “seemed intent on quickly writing lies about the governor, and we were concerned about the speed at which those lies could be published online.”
His characterization of the situation matches one outlined in more detail in an ebook by Mike Allen and Evan Thomas, which explained that Perry’s aides were “distressed to learn that Jason Cherkis, a Huffington Post reporter, was in Austin prowling around on a story that had been gossiped about for years in the Texas capital: is Perry gay?”

231 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:02:40am

re: #223 Obdicut

Oh, and we went to the menorah-lighting in Central Park last night.

It is really, really ugly. Kind of bafflingly ugly.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

This one?

Image: menora2_medium.jpg

232 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:03:12am

re: #228 Decatur Deb

Yom Kippur geld. Easter presents.

'Morning, all. Happy Hannukah, and for you Druids: "Let's keep the Sol in Solstice".

I'm keeping the "Hallo" in "Halloween".

Hallo everyone!

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:04:03am

re: #229 Obdicut

Y'know, Shaggy and Western Jesus do look a lot alike.

ZOIKS!

234 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:04:12am

"A source familiar with the reporting told POLITICO that other national media outlets were also seeking to corroborate rumors that Perry cheated on his wife with a man."

235 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:04:32am

re: #223 Obdicut

Oh, and we went to the menorah-lighting in Central Park last night.

It is really, really ugly. Kind of bafflingly ugly.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Is that the menorah that was designed by Yaakov Agam? His concepts are...interesting. Chabad is all into the straight-branch menorah, but I think the curved branch is more aesthetic.

The Agam menorah as "World's Biggest" may be designed that way for support. It's what, six stories high?

236 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:05:08am

re: #231 iossarian

Yeah. Maybe it's just me, but it just looks half-finished, and that the lines of the supports at the bottom aren't the same angle as the lines going up to the top bugs me.

I like traditional tree-style menorahs. Maybe it's a safety thing or something, so they had to overbuild it. I dunno.

237 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:07:57am
238 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:08:02am

re: #235 Alouette

Yeah, it's the world's biggest, apparently. But no, it's pretty small. Two stories at the most. I think it's biggest on tonnage, maybe, I dunno. I don't get the point of making the biggest menorah, either.

And I agree, I like the curved variety, or the tree-like ones, a lot better.

The ceremony was pretty flat, too. I think someone was speaking but I couldn't hear them, and the light wasn't very bright against the backdrop of the buildings. Just kind of odd choices all round.

239 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:10:27am

re: #237 Gus 802

Image: necover-167.jpg

Yeah, JOHN EDWARDS' LOVER HAS A BABY FROM HIM! That one was a funny lie.

wait

240 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:11:02am

re: #237 Gus 802

Image: necover-167.jpg

But...but...they were right about Edwards!

///

241 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:12:04am

re: #240 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

But...but...they were right about Edwards!

///

You mean, they weren't? Damn!

242 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:12:24am

I should take a picture of our family menorah and post it here for everyone. We got it as a wedding gift, and it's sterling silver, classic design with curved branches.

I can't find a similar design online, so I'll take a photo and post it tonight.

243 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:12:25am

re: #238 Obdicut

Yeah, it's the world's biggest, apparently. But no, it's pretty small. Two stories at the most. I think it's biggest on tonnage, maybe, I dunno. I don't get the point of making the biggest menorah, either.

And I agree, I like the curved variety, or the tree-like ones, a lot better.

The ceremony was pretty flat, too. I think someone was speaking but I couldn't hear them, and the light wasn't very bright against the backdrop of the buildings. Just kind of odd choices all round.

Outdoor religious ceremonies are always dicey. Hard to make it audible without it losing the spiritual "feel".

PROTIP: When getting married in an outdoor ceremony, do not combine the following:

a) hymn singing
b) string quartets unused to playing hymns
c) ditto general congregation

unless you feel like subjecting yourself to two minutes of toe-curling embarrassment.

244 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:12:35am

re: #241 Sergey Romanov

You mean, they weren't? Damn!

Something about a blind squirrel and a nut seems appropriate here.

245 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:12:57am

re: #237 Gus 802

Image: necover-167.jpg

Did you notice the pic of Patrick Swayzee looks like Charlie Sheen? Maybe Sheen has tiger blood cancer.

246 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:13:35am

re: #239 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, JOHN EDWARDS' LOVER HAS A BABY FROM HIM! That one was a funny lie.

wait

Yeah, well. I always though John Edwards was an asshole even way back when everybody thought he was "America's only hope." He was and shall ever remain a slimeball.

247 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:14:22am

re: #244 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Something about a blind squirrel and a nut seems appropriate here.

Yes, just as something about men made of grass - or was that straw?

Enquirer runs with wild stories! Therefore anyone who runs with wild stories is just like Enquirer!!!
///

How did we even start talking about Enquirer?

248 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:15:25am

re: #242 Alouette

I really like this one that I found through your website.

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:16:09am

Many known sex scandals started with Enquirer-like wild rumors, no?

250 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:18:39am

re: #249 Sergey Romanov

Many known sex scandals started with Enquirer-like wild rumors, no?

Sure. And many that turned out to be false started the same way.

Even the dude writing the book isn't claiming to have any real evidence, from what I can tell.

251 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:19:50am

re: #249 Sergey Romanov

Many known sex scandals started with Enquirer-like wild rumors, no?

Here's an idea. Call it my new Democratic Party 2012 campaign strategy. It's rather simple. Destroy all of the weakest Republican candidates during the campaign until you are left with the strongest Republican challenger, Mitt Romney. Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

252 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:20:00am

re: #248 Obdicut

I really like this one that I found through your website.

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

Should have ordered it earlier. JWS takes about 3 weeks to ship from Israel.

253 Flounder  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:20:12am

Weiner sighting:
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

254 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:21:34am

re: #242 Alouette

And if someone wants a straight-lines kind, this is very nice.

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

If the big Central Park one had looked more like that, I'd have been happier. That's got a real aesthetic to it.

255 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:21:51am

re: #250 Obdicut

Sure. And many that turned out to be false started the same way.

Even the dude writing the book isn't claiming to have any real evidence, from what I can tell.

It's just doesn't seem to be verifiable by us, so it's not real evidence for us. But if these alleged sources would be willing to go on record openly, they would become real evidence (although not necessarily true).

The point is, this is not a silly "Obama is a Muslim" story. This is a subject of a legitimate investigation. Whether such an investigation has been done is a good question.

256 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:21:55am

I've been tempted to build a new pc but I just found a fairly nice setup for $400 at Frys. Anyone know if upgrading from Win7 Home Premium to Pro is worth the cost?

257 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:22:59am

re: #255 Sergey Romanov

It's just doesn't seem to be verifiable by us, so it's not real evidence for us. But if these alleged sources would be willing to go on record openly, they would become real evidence (although not necessarily true).

The point is, this is not a silly "Obama is a Muslim" story. This is a subject of a legitimate investigation. Whether such an investigation has been done is a good question.

Still stuck on that Sergey? Damn, you make me laugh sometimes.

258 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:23:15am

This is a subject of a legitimate investigation!

LOL

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:23:30am

re: #251 Gus 802

Here's an idea. Call it my new Democratic Party 2012 campaign strategy. It's rather simple. Destroy all of the weakest Republican candidates during the campaign until you are left with the strongest Republican challenger, Mitt Romney. Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

Well, that's something I agree with. I don't actually even like Paul and Newt postings on the FP here - for real-political reasons. I don't like any help Romney receives. (I don't consider bickering in the comments help, it's nothing.)

260 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:23:32am

I need a smoke now. Whew.

261 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:24:06am

re: #254 Obdicut

And if someone wants a straight-lines kind, this is very nice.

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

If the big Central Park one had looked more like that, I'd have been happier. That's got a real aesthetic to it.

Art Deco, very nice. Something of the Chrysler Building about it.

262 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:24:10am

re: #253 Shropshire_Slasher

Weiner sighting:
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

Anthony Weiner does Black Friday shopping with 'X-rated' moustache

You can always count on the Post!

263 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:24:13am

Uh oh! Butthurt on aisle #257!

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:24:15am

re: #257 Gus 802

Still stuck on that Sergey? Damn, you make me laugh sometimes.

And you make me sad sometimes. So I guess it balances out.

265 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:24:33am

re: #256 RogueOne

Depends on what you use it for. Pro's advantages are mainly networking and legacy-- the ability to run XP programs.

If you don't depend on legacy programs and don't intend to network the computer there's no real reason to get Pro.

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:25:34am

re: #263 Gus 802

Uh oh! Butthurt on aisle #257!

You would know about that, judging by #211.

267 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:26:27am

re: #255 Sergey Romanov

Well, sure, the Obama is a Muslim story is obviously untrue, given the load of evidence to the contrary. This may or may not be true. But in the end, a dude is trying to sell a book on the subject and has only rumors to back it up, which makes me conclude the most logical explanation is he's trying to make a buck off of it, and probably really doesn't like Perry much, either.

268 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:26:39am

re: #265 Obdicut

I'm still using XP Pro, I refused to upgrade. I use an NAS server for streaming my audio/video, think I'll have issues if I stick with the home premium?

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:27:46am

re: #267 Obdicut

"Trying to sell a book" is not really an argument either. Of course he is trying to sell a book. All authors are.

270 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:28:07am

BTW, it's nice to see all that feel-good, get along crap from yesterday was just a daily fluke and not a long-term deal.....//

271 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:29:33am

re: #268 RogueOne

I'm still using XP Pro, I refused to upgrade. I use an NAS server for streaming my audio/video, think I'll have issues if I stick with the home premium?

What NAS server?

272 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:29:48am

re: #262 iceweasel

Anthony Weiner does Black Friday shopping with 'X-rated' moustache

You can always count on the Post!

I think the porn-stache look is hot although the spouse disagrees. I can't grow a beard to save my life but I can get a good pornstache going.

273 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:29:58am

re: #270 RogueOne

BTW, it's nice to see all that feel-good, get along crap from yesterday was just a daily fluke and not a long-term deal...//

We had a hippie drum circle yesterday? Sorry I missed that.

274 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:30:52am

re: #269 Sergey Romanov

"Trying to sell a book" is not really an argument either. Of course he is trying to sell a book. All authors are.

Not really an argument of what? I'm really confused as to what your point is.

275 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:31:31am

re: #264 Sergey Romanov

And you make me sad sometimes. So I guess it balances out.

Don't be sad for me for I do not have an IQ of 167.

//

276 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:32:21am

re: #271 Obdicut

What NAS server?

A WD mybook. I guess you're right, I could look up their specs and make sure it would work with 7 premium. (I can read between the lines!)

277 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:32:27am

re: #275 Gus 802

Don't be sad for me for I do not have an IQ of 167.

//

That's unpossible. You're posting on the internet, where that's the lowest allowed IQ. I myself am aware of all internet traditions.

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:32:36am

re: #274 Obdicut

Not really an argument of what? I'm really confused as to what your point is.

Not an argument for doubt over claims.

279 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:33:25am

re: #273 iceweasel

We had a hippie drum circle yesterday? Sorry I missed that.

It was like one big group hug, it was kinda gross.//

280 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:33:39am

re: #275 Gus 802

281 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:34:49am

re: #280 Sergey Romanov

[Video]

Ouch! Stabbed with a pillow! Right through the heart!

//

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:35:16am

re: #281 Gus 802

Ouch! Stabbed with a pillow! Right through the heart!

//

Wasn't inteded to be such. Sorry if you took it that way.

283 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:35:22am

re: #276 RogueOne

Yeah, should be okay, since devices like that are mass-market. Might be trickier, but probably is just plug-and-play.

284 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:37:08am

re: #282 Sergey Romanov

Wasn't inteded to be such. Sorry if you took it that way.

I was being somewhat sarcastic you know. See the "//" marks at the end. I was born in Argentina so I thought the video was a bit, how do I put it, strange. You know. Sort of like if I posted a video about some Russian martyr? Would make you think no?

285 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:37:59am

re: #277 Obdicut

I myself am aware of all internet traditions.

That is quite the claim. I will now test your internet tradition knowledge. Yes.

1) Complete the following sentence: "All your base..."

2) What does "LOL" mean?

3) CAN I HAZ ANSUR TO KWESTYON THRE?

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:38:33am

re: #284 Gus 802

Actually, it was a riff on "don't be sad for me". Also, a song that I love.

287 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:40:33am

re: #278 Sergey Romanov

Not an argument for doubt over claims.

It's an explanation for why someone would make the claims, though. I don't really have to have any reasons for doubting hearsay, I can doubt it just because it's hearsay. If the people he cites in the book are willing to confirm what he says, if other evidence appears, I'll consider it credible.

But I don't see any reason to waste time paying attention to pure hearsay evidence, and I really don't want to pay for the privilege of reading that hearsay evidence.

288 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:40:46am

re: #286 Sergey Romanov

Actually, it was a riff on "don't be sad for me". Also, a song that I love.

OK. I'll just watch for the time being.

289 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:41:24am

re: #285 iossarian

[Link: knowyourmeme.com...]

290 palomino  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:41:25am

I don't think Perry's gay. He's too stupid to be gay.

But who cares? He's running no better than 4th in any early state, and is in the single digits in nearly all of them.

291 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:41:36am

re: #286 Sergey Romanov

Actually, it was a riff on "don't be sad for me". Also, a song that I love.

If Rick Perry loved that song I think that would be evidence that the story is correct....just saying....///

292 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:43:47am

re: #289 Obdicut

[Link: knowyourmeme.com...]

That is pretty funny.

293 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:45:28am

re: #285 iossarian

Oh and my mom actually asked me if LOL means 'lots of love' the other day.

294 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:48:08am

re: #254 Obdicut

And if someone wants a straight-lines kind, this is very nice.

[Link: www.judaicawebstore.com...]

If the big Central Park one had looked more like that, I'd have been happier. That's got a real aesthetic to it.

Our family menorah looks kind of like this one. The actual design has been discontinued, this is the closest that I have been able to find.

295 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:48:12am

re: #293 Obdicut

Oh and my mom actually asked me if LOL means 'lots of love' the other day.

That's adorable.

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:48:22am

re: #287 Obdicut

> It's an explanation for why someone would make the claims

No, in this case it's not, unless you're saying that these claims were made up by the author, for which there is no evidence. The claims may not be true, as most rumors aren't, but these rumors do exist indepedently of any money-making book franchises and have been flowing around for a long time now.

So what message exactly is "looks like a guy out to sell a book" supposed to deliver? That money-making was the primary goal? You would have to actually show such a probability from available evidence. Because from what I see at the Burnt Orange (which seems to have been exploring the rumor for years) and other sites covering this, the goal was indeed to investigate the pre-existing rumors and to stick it to the hated governor Perry.

It needs no saying that the rumors by itself are not proof, and even the anonymous detailed stories are not (yet) proof. Adding to this "they're out to sell a book" really serves nothing.

297 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:50:13am

re: #296 Sergey Romanov

> It's an explanation for why someone would make the claims

No, in this case it's not, unless you're saying that these claims were made up by the author, for which there is no evidence.

No, I'm saying it's an explanation for why someone would publish just hearsay, without any more verification: because he can profit by doing so.

What response do you want me to have to the book and rumors, exactly? I'm really at a loss as to what you're driving at.

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:50:39am

re: #291 RogueOne

If Rick Perry loved that song I think that would be evidence that the story is correct...just saying...///

Are there any songs the love of which proves straightness? //

299 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:51:24am

re: #294 Alouette

That's very nice. I like the 'floating' aspect, the way things look barely attached. And the bell-like shell of the candle-holders.

300 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:51:53am

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

Because, I think, he believes that he should be able to say what he likes without there being consequences.

Until someone comes up to him and calls him a cocksucking, worthless, subhuman lower than whale shit at the bottom of the ocean, bigoted, waste of skin and oxygen, danger to the United States and the rest of the world, vile animal. Then he will want an apology for a nasty comment like that and decry the tone that things have taken on.


PS: I didn't write the entry above, it was someone else. I know my name is on the comment but it was someone else.

301 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:55:14am

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

Are there any songs the love of which proves straightness? //

Unleash the monster.

302 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 5:59:26am

Sigh.

Image: 9.png

303 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:01:31am

re: #297 Obdicut

No, I'm saying it's an explanation for why someone would publish just hearsay, without any more verification: because he can profit by doing so. What response do you want me to have to the book and rumors, exactly? I'm really at a loss as to what you're driving at.

And I'm just saying that a goal of making money is irrelevant to the content of a book, so I don't see why it is brought up. The book is a book of rumors and hearsay and that's enough by itself to judge whether we can make any conclusions about Perry from it or not. I don't see what pointing out "he's out to make a buck" adds.

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:02:51am

re: #302 Obdicut

Sigh.

Image: 9.png

Sure it's sarcasm?!

305 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:06:35am

re: #304 Sergey Romanov

I doubt it. The same dude twits stuff like this:

I doubt anything in my life will be as fun as the few seconds after somebody yells "fight!" In the HS cafeteri

Doubt he's a big thinker.

306 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:06:41am

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

Are there any songs the love of which proves straightness? //

or

307 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:07:34am

re: #306 RogueOne

I still meet Queen fans who deny Mercury fucked dudes.

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:07:45am

re: #305 Obdicut

Sigh.

[Link: pbfcomics.com...]

309 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:08:37am

re: #306 RogueOne

[Video]

Anything by Elton John? ///

310 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:10:36am

re: #309 Sergey Romanov

Anything by Elton John? ///

Hey now, You can't get any straighter than professing your love of fat bottom girls and leather!

311 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:11:43am

Until just now, I knew more about Ron Paul's antisemitism than Bobby Fischer's, even though Bobby Fischer's was so blatant and fully expressed.

312 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:11:48am

re: #305 Obdicut

I doubt it. The same dude twits stuff like this:

Doubt he's a big thinker.

Oh, I think he's kidding after all:

Warren G. Harding @marion_anthrax 13 ч Ответить Ретвитнуть В избранное · Открыть
It's Warren Gamaliel Harding, the 29th & Most Hated On President of the United States and True Ruler of the Eternal Cocaine Galaxies.

313 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:13:02am

New Gallup:

Many Americans Dissatisfied With All Presidential Candidates

Sounds about right, given the results of other polls.

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:13:44am

re: #307 Obdicut

I still meet Queen fans who deny Mercury fucked dudes.

Heh. Russian homophobes who love Queen usually jokingly say something like "... but we love him not only for this".

315 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:16:25am

re: #312 Sergey Romanov

I think that's part of a weirder thing.

[Link: twitter.com...]

[Link: www.elevenwarriors.com...]

[Link: foursquare.com...]

It's hard to tell these days when people are being dumb or dumb on purpose.

316 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:16:36am

One of my fav old bands, the intro cracks me up:
"I worry that you'll work in an office, have children, celebrate wedding anniversaries. The world of heterosexuals is a sick and boring life."

Sloppy Seconds:

(language warning: NSFW)

317 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:16:57am

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

Are there any songs the love of which proves straightness? //

La Colombe

318 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:18:06am

re: #311 Lawrence Schmerel

Until just now, I knew more about Ron Paul's antisemitism than Bobby Fischer's, even though Bobby Fischer's was so blatant and fully expressed.

Bobby Fischer wasn't trying to govern a nation.

319 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:18:25am

re: #315 Obdicut

Poe's law.

But then, that tweet was just too good to be true.

320 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:21:22am

Heh. I liked this:

People hate on Hitler but wasn't he the guy who killed Hitler? I mean, that's gotta count for a lot.

321 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:21:30am

One last punk song, counter-point to the sloppy seconds and also on my phone. BTW, You get weird looks from passerbys if caught singing along:

Screeching Weasel: I wanna be a homosexual

(definitely NSFW, language)

322 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:21:57am

Yo Sergey!

{{{Sergey}}}

323 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:22:25am

re: #322 Gus 802

Yo Sergey!

{{{Sergey}}}

Gay!

/// {{{Gus}}}

324 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:23:30am

re: #322 Gus 802

(And hey, when I came here I warned I can be an asshole. :P)

325 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:23:36am

Damn peace loving hippies taking all the fun out of fighting....

326 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:24:06am

re: #324 Sergey Romanov

(And hey, when I came here I warned I can be an asshole. :P)

Everybody has one. ;)

327 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:24:25am

re: #325 RogueOne

Damn peace loving hippies taking all the fun out of fighting...

Drum circle!

//

328 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:24:45am

re: #319 Sergey Romanov

Heh, I think you're right:

& if Craig James is elected as a FUCKING SENATOR, I will build a pile of dead hookers so high I'll use the sun to light my USA flag on fire.

329 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:24:53am

re: #320 Obdicut

People hate on Hitler but wasn't he the guy who killed Hitler? I mean, that's gotta count for a lot.

The only response to this is: PEOPLE DON'T KILL PEOPLE. GUNS KILL PEOPLE!

330 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:25:19am

re: #326 Gus 802

Everybody has one. ;)

My wife was just studying about the medical procedure to give people a new asshole.

331 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:26:28am

re: #330 Obdicut

My wife was just studying about the medical procedure to give people a new asshole.

So one can have another one just for fun? //

332 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:26:47am

re: #327 Gus 802

Drum circle!

//

Let's punch ourselves on count 3!

333 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:28:48am

re: #330 Obdicut

My wife was just studying about the medical procedure to give people a new asshole.

Isn't it easier just to vote them in?

334 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:29:21am

re: #332 Sergey Romanov

Let's punch ourselves on count 3!

Like this guy?

Image: tt-banner.jpg

335 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:30:56am

LooooL.

This is an ad for the Dec. 24 anti-election falsification demo. In this ad it's being framed as a good way to find a better half:

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:31:50am

re: #334 Gus 802

Like this guy?

Image: tt-banner.jpg

No, like this one:

Image: p5-3-280210-123618.jpg

337 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:32:32am

re: #336 Sergey Romanov

No, like this one:

Image: p5-3-280210-123618.jpg

Was that taken in Albania?

//

338 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:33:24am

re: #333 Decatur Deb

Isn't it easier just to vote them in?

That's genius. Wish I could give multiple updings.

339 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:34:02am

re: #337 Gus 802

Was that taken in Albania?

//

Hey, I wasn't where it was taken, so I don't know. (Thank mercy!)
/

340 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:34:46am

re: #330 Obdicut

My wife was just studying about the medical procedure to give people a new asshole.

[Link: www.hark.com...]

341 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:35:15am

re: #339 Sergey Romanov

Hey, I wasn't where it was taken, so I don't know. (Thank mercy!)
/

Image: p2-3-201211-233324.jpg

342 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:35:20am

Morning Honcos.

343 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:36:08am

Ah. This reminds me of something I would have done in my youth...

Image: p6-3-191211-233559.jpg

344 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:36:16am

re: #335 Sergey Romanov
(Scratch "better half", since this one is mostly aimed at females ;)

Anyway, top YT comment:
"And if you don't meet anyone, at least you'll meet a SWAT cop" ;)

345 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:37:17am

re: #341 Gus 802

Image: p2-3-201211-233324.jpg

Translation:
REVENGE
is a dish best served in slippers

346 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:38:34am

Morning Lizards.

347 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:45:04am

Oh, and more on Paul's newsletters:


[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Whoever wrote them was certainly attempting to give the impression it was Ron Paul. And if it was Lew Rockwell, that hardly improves matters, given that he was Paul's chief of staff and otherwise extremely closely tied to him.

348 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:47:28am

re: #347 Obdicut

Trilateralists, ROFL!

349 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:48:31am

Gotta run. Enjoy the day folks!

350 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:49:10am

re: #347 Obdicut

BTW, can the issue of the main author (I'm sure there were several, and I'm quite sure about Rockwell's role, but not the percentage) be decided by textological/stylistic analysis of Paul's, Rockwell's and newsletter's texts?

351 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:49:18am

re: #347 Obdicut

Oh, and more on Paul's newsletters:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Whoever wrote them was certainly attempting to give the impression it was Ron Paul. And if it was Lew Rockwell, that hardly improves matters, given that he was Paul's chief of staff and otherwise extremely closely tied to him.

...

Gay political agenda by way of the Smithsonian!

352 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:50:44am

It is interesting that Bobby Fischer's antisemitism was clearly the Christian form.

353 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:51:12am

re: #343 Gus 802

Ah. This reminds me of something I would have done in my youth...

Image: p6-3-191211-233559.jpg

You mean back in the days when it snowed, or could be expected to snow in the winter? /

354 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:52:19am

re: #353 lawhawk

You mean back in the days when it snowed, or could be expected to snow in the winter? /

Barely ever snowed in South Jersey. Got some snow on the ground here now. Tomorrow is the first day of Winter. Can't wait for Spring. Tired of this cold weather.

355 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:53:23am

re: #352 Lawrence Schmerel

It is interesting that Bobby Fischer's antisemitism was clearly the Christian form.

Interesting, because early on he was quite anti-Christian:

Fischer wrote of Nature's Eternal Religion in a 1979 letter to Benko, "The book shows that Christianity itself is just a Jewish hoax and one more Jewish tool for their conquest of the world. ... Unfortunately the author is an extreme racist and this somewhat spoils the book."

It could be like Hitler's m.o. - he would say strong words about Christianity as a religion, but would hail Christ as someone who "stood against the Jews" at the same time.

356 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:55:40am

From that genius Ron Paul newsletter:

"The mega-expensive stealth fighter-bombers that missed their targets in Panama, and which the government covered up, aren't so stealth either. A French newsmagazine reports that the Saudi radar can "see" the American stealth planes that are stationed there for the war against Iraq, although they are supposedly invisible to radar.

"The stealth planes can get closer (10.5 miles) than a regular aircraft before being detected, but not so close that they could avoid being shot down by an alert ack-ack crew." --Newsletter, "Not So Stealth"

Beware of alert ack-ack crews men!

What is this WWI?

357 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:56:37am

re: #355 Sergey Romanov

On the other hand:

On January 21, he was buried in the small Christian cemetery of Laugardælir church, outside the town of Selfoss, 60 km southeast of Reykjavík, after a Catholic funeral presided over by Fr. Jakob Rolland of the diocese of Reykjavik. In accordance with Fischer's wishes, no one else was present except Miyoko Watai, Garðar Sverrisson, and Garðar's family.[322][323]

So did he flip flop and convert after all?

358 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:57:03am

re: #356 Gus 802

From that genius Ron Paul newsletter:

Beware of alert ack-ack crews men!

What is this WWI?

Yeah, you don't remember when those alert, crack ack-ack crews in Baghdad knocked all the stealth fighters out of the sky? God, were we ever embarrassed...

///

359 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:58:27am

Ah, the meat and substance of today's posting - Bobby Fischer, anti Semitism, and the chess match of the century.

Yeah, no one talked about the match of the century after Fischer began destroying Spassky. That's right, we don't know what happened; we didn't get updates; and we didn't learn the outcome. Funny, but Google shows something quite different (and the Paper of Record - NYT, has its own archives).

Yeah, it was because Fischer was Jewish (but not the right sort of Jew according to Paul) that the news coverage ceased.

Never mind the long obituaries detailing Fischer's storied chess career and troubled personal life. Never mind that everyone still considers the Spassky match the match of the century, or that Fischer was one of the greatest chess masters in history.

Paul fails on history (again). Go figure.

360 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 6:58:31am

re: #358 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, you don't remember when those alert, crack ack-ack crews in Baghdad knocked all the stealth fighters out of the sky? God, were we ever embarrassed...

///

But. But. What about the F-117 that was shot down in Serbia!

Hurr, hurr.

//

361 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:00:54am

re: #350 Sergey Romanov

Not my area of expertise, no idea how solid the science of that is.

362 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:01:04am

The Ron Paul cult. I seriously hope this is the last time this clown runs for office.

363 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:03:25am

re: #362 Gus 802

The Ron Paul cult. I seriously hope this is the last time this clown runs for office.

He's chosen not to run for reelection so as to "focus on his presidential bid," so short a third-party run as a last act of desperation, then we'll see him no more once the primaries end. We just have to deal with Paul the Second, who seems every bit as crazy.

364 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:03:42am

re: #356 Gus 802

Maybe that's why the military considers them low-observable aircraft, but the stealth moniker was attached to them by media types and politicians.

Under the right conditions, you can still see stealth aircraft - like in daylight. They're still difficult to hit using IR and radar guidance, but because you can still see them in the visible range, they have to be used at night. Later, during the Serbian conflict, one was indeed shot down as the gunners figured out a way to track the F-117, which has since been retired in favor of the new F-22 and F35 fighters, that have more agility and can not only engage in bombing missions only, but are more agile and can dogfight as well as attack ground targets.

365 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:05:03am

re: #359 lawhawk

Ah, the meat and substance of today's posting - Bobby Fischer, anti Semitism, and the chess match of the century.

Yeah, no one talked about the match of the century after Fischer began destroying Spassky. That's right, we don't know what happened; we didn't get updates; and we didn't learn the outcome. Funny, but Google shows something quite different (and the Paper of Record - NYT, has its own archives).

Yeah, it was because Fischer was Jewish (but not the right sort of Jew according to Paul) that the news coverage ceased.

Never mind the long obituaries detailing Fischer's storied chess career and troubled personal life. Never mind that everyone still considers the Spassky match the match of the century, or that Fischer was one of the greatest chess masters in history.

Paul fails on history (again). Go figure.

Because it's an embarrassment that the greatest chess player in history was also one of the biggest psycho whackjob assholes in history. The nicest thing that you can say about him is that he was some kind of bipolar autistic savant.

366 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:07:33am

re: #364 lawhawk

Maybe that's why the military considers them low-observable aircraft, but the stealth moniker was attached to them by media types and politicians.

Under the right conditions, you can still see stealth aircraft - like in daylight. They're still difficult to hit using IR and radar guidance, but because you can still see them in the visible range, they have to be used at night. Later, during the Serbian conflict, one was indeed shot down as the gunners figured out a way to track the F-117, which has since been retired in favor of the new F-22 and F35 fighters, that have more agility and can not only engage in bombing missions only, but are more agile and can dogfight as well as attack ground targets.

Stealth is sort of like the differences between waterproof and water-resistant. It was never implied that stealth was 100 percent invisible to radar. However, the radar signature is very tiny compared to a regular signature. The F-117 of course was one of the first. Even though the SR-71 was probably the first to employ the earliest of stealth technology. Different missions of course but all a product of Lockheed.

367 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:07:47am

We're in a new century. The "match of the century" thus far has been me getting my ass handed to me by my wife in facebook's "Words With Friends"(a Scrabble clone) and her family is a mix of Catholics and Lutherans. I'm sure you heard about it already. It was in all the papers.

368 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:08:23am

re: #363 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He's chosen not to run for reelection so as to "focus on his presidential bid," so short a third-party run as a last act of desperation, then we'll see him no more once the primaries end. We just have to deal with Paul the Second, who seems every bit as crazy.

Yeah but in his effort to seem more controlled and rational, his son loses the one thing that the father had going for him. An "I simply don't give a shit" attitude that appeals to the outlier in all of us (at least for a brief moment).

369 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:08:26am

re: #359 lawhawk

> Never mind the long obituaries detailing Fischer's storied chess career and troubled personal life.

Note, however, that this particular point was not yet true at the time of the writing. :P

370 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:09:00am

re: #364 lawhawk

Why don't we just use our cloaking device?

371 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:10:32am

re: #370 darthstar

Why don't we just use our cloaking device?

Because we can't raise shields or fire weapons without dropping the cloak.

372 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:12:13am

re: #371 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Because we can't raise shields or fire weapons without dropping the cloak.

Of course...I forgot about that.

373 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:13:25am

Yeah, Paul wrote 'em.

374 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:15:12am
375 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:15:41am

re: #369 Sergey Romanov

Tis true, but the media still covered him in the 1970s after the match of the century, including when he gave up chess in 1975, his reclusive lifestyle thereafter, and even potential comeback in the late 1980s, and then the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" that once again cast his name and legacy as a chess master in the spotlight.

376 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:16:08am

re: #374 darthstar

okay then...ha!

I'm willing to donate $20.

/

377 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:16:58am

re: #373 EdDantes

Yeah, Paul wrote 'em.

Paul is irrelevant, just like Gingrich. I'm saving my energy for defeating Romney (most likely)

378 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:17:58am

re: #375 lawhawk

Not to mention the whole musical about him.

379 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:19:33am

re: #371 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They've figured out to fire while cloaked? Well, the damned thing's got to have a tailpipe. /Uhura

Yeah, even then, having cloaking and the ability to fire photon torpedoes didn't make them invulnerable to being tracked.

380 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:20:58am
381 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:21:34am

re: #380 Gus 802

Image: TheFlyBoxC.jpg

That movie still gives me the creeps.

382 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:21:43am

re: #375 lawhawk

Tis true, but the media still covered him in the 1970s after the match of the century, including when he gave up chess in 1975, his reclusive lifestyle thereafter, and even potential comeback in the late 1980s, and then the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" that once again cast his name and legacy as a chess master in the spotlight.

That was much about the Cold War...which, in the 80s, we "won." Bobby beat the Russkie! So he was important in that regard.

383 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:24:06am

re: #382 darthstar

That was much about the Cold War...which, in the 80s, we "won." Bobby beat the Russkie! So he was important in that regard.

Heh, yeah. In WWII Stalin was not simply an ally - he was a "good guy", just because he was an enemy of the enemy. Sometimes the lengths to which agitprop will go are ridiculous.

384 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:29:27am

re: #362 Gus 802

The Ron Paul cult. I seriously hope this is the last time this clown runs for office.

I'd think so; he's older than John McCain.

385 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:30:37am

re: #381 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That movie still gives me the creeps.

Yeah. I just watched the final scene from the '58 version.

Help me!

386 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:34:38am

re: #384 sagehen

I'd think so; he's older than John McCain.

He has a good replacement tho. /

387 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:37:12am

re: #386 Sergey Romanov

He has a good replacement tho. /

for some values of "good".

388 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:37:38am

re: #387 sagehen

for some values of "good".

Hence /

389 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:40:15am

Welp. There's always Sawah Pawin!

//

390 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:40:32am

re: #388 Sergey Romanov

I just reread the PDF of Paul's newsletter I posted above, and I note in the sector where he's attacking public education, he's got a lot of grammar and spelling errors.

391 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:41:00am

re: #384 sagehen

I'd think so; he's older than John McCain.

That's fuckin' old.

392 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:41:19am

re: #390 Obdicut

I just reread the PDF of Paul's newsletter I posted above, and I note in the sector where he's attacking public education, he's got a lot of grammar and spelling errors.

He just wants not to stand out! /

393 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:41:29am

re: #381 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That movie still gives me the creeps.

My favorite line in the movie, "Oh, that was disgusting" (after he vomited on his food)

394 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:42:09am

re: #391 darthstar

That's fuckin' old.

Older than Eli Wallach?

395 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:42:37am

re: #385 Gus 802

Still haunts me.

396 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:42:52am

re: #393 EdDantes

My favorite line in the movie, "Oh, that was disgusting" (after he vomited on his food)

Image: TheFly089.jpg

397 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:44:09am

re: #396 Gus 802

Oh, that was disgusting.

398 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:44:51am

re: #394 Gus 802

Older than Eli Wallach?

I loved him in those spaghetti westerns with Clint Eastwood.

399 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:45:35am

Fox and Sarah Palin Freak Over White House Christmas Card

Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin told Fox News & Commentary that she found the card to be a bit unusual.

"It's odd," she said, wondering why the president's Christmas card highlights his dog instead of traditions like "family, faith and freedom."

...

Palin said the majority of Americans can appreciate the more traditional, "American foundational values illustrated and displayed on Christmas cards and on a Christmas tree."

As for the Obama card, she replied, "It's just a different way of thinking coming out of the White House."

400 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:45:40am

re: #398 darthstar

I loved him in those spaghetti westerns with Clint Eastwood.

Image: eli-wallach-good-bad-ugly-2.jpg

401 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:48:12am

Speaking of losers...the orange fucker isn't getting much positive press these days...

"I do sense that Boehner is in jeopardy of losing control," said a former House Republican leadership aide, who asked not to be identified.

"He is holding on, but he is clearly riding a bronking bull. He steers the bull one way and it bucks back the other way."

402 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:49:40am

re: #399 Gus 802

Shorter Sarah: "Obama is un-American".

BTW, it never occurs to these nuts that Islam's view of dogs is pretty negative (in general), so their memes contradict each other.

403 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:50:32am

So much for courting Log Cabin Republicans. Newt tells off gay voters - go vote for Obama. Yet, he still thinks that offering up such pablum will help him win the Iowa caucus and conservative voters in general, even though he needs every voter he can get as he's slipping badly in the polls.

What an asshat.

404 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:50:44am

re: #399 Gus 802

Fox and Sarah Palin Freak Over White House Christmas Card

Yo. Sawah! Here's the Christmas greeting card from the Bush White House in 2006:

Image: 4804.jpg

All I see is a bunch of snow and the White House.

405 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:52:06am

re: #404 Gus 802

Yo. Sawah! Here's the Christmas greeting card from the Bush White House in 2006:

Image: 4804.jpg

All I see is a bunch of snow and the White House.


BUT REST ASSURED THERE IS A BIBLE AND A LOT OF CROSSES IN THAT HOUSE, NOT PRAYERS MATS!!!!11

406 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:52:49am

re: #399 Gus 802

Fox and Sarah Palin Freak Over White House Christmas Card

Hey Sarah...your bigotry is showing again.

407 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:53:27am

And here's Reagan's from 1982...

Image: xxredron5a.jpg

408 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:54:27am

re: #403 lawhawk

So much for courting Log Cabin Republicans. Newt tells off gay voters - go vote for Obama. Yet, he still thinks that offering up such pablum will help him win the Iowa caucus and conservative voters in general, even though he needs every voter he can get as he's slipping badly in the polls.

What an asshat.

You have to love the honesty of a Republican politician flat-out telling a minority group "we've got nothing good in mind for you".

409 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:54:38am

re: #407 Gus 802

And here's Reagan's from 1982...

Image: xxredron5a.jpg

And in 1983...

Image: 4435.jpg

410 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:54:50am

re: #403 lawhawk

So much for courting Log Cabin Republicans. Newt tells off gay voters - go vote for Obama. Yet, he still thinks that offering up such pablum will help him win the Iowa caucus and conservative voters in general, even though he needs every voter he can get as he's slipping badly in the polls.

What an asshat.

Newt's suffering the same fate as previous "front-runners": The voters turned to him in desperation, got a good look at him, and realized just how much of a douche he really is. In this case, they remembered exactly why Newt was exiled to the political wilderness over a decade ago.

411 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:54:52am

re: #407 Gus 802

And here's Reagan's from 1982...

Image: xxredron5a.jpg

There's a crucifix somewhere there... if you squint a little...

412 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:56:23am

re: #409 Gus 802

And in 1983...

Image: 4435.jpg

At least it's a room where a Christian lives(d)!!!1

413 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:56:36am

re: #411 Sergey Romanov

There's a crucifix somewhere there... if you squint a little...

What a bunch of dips. Basically, Obama's card is not much different then tradition.

414 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:58:12am

re: #413 Gus 802

What a bunch of dips. Basically, Obama's card is not much different then tradition.

It's different. It's from a "Kenyan".

415 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:03:25am

re: #409 Gus 802


The Obama card is wholly within the tradition of prior Presidential seasons' greetings cards. That's probably what sticks in their craw so much (he's no true Christian, so there's got to be something wrong with those cards). So they obsess over some aspect of the card, even though there's nothing wrong with it. Heck, this year's card could almost pass for a Norman Rockwellesque scene.

416 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:03:34am

re: #414 Sergey Romanov

It's different. It's from a "Kenyan".

Hard to believe that it's almost 2012 and they're still engaging in such trivial bullshit. Not only that but they can't even pull it off right since their BS doesn't hold water when you compare their freakishness with their own idols.

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:05:15am

re: #416 Gus 802

Hard to believe that it's almost 2012 and they're still engaging in such trivial bullshit. Not only that but they can't even pull it off right since their BS doesn't hold water when you compare their freakishness with their own idols.

I do hope that as time goes by, there are less and less people who fall for it.

418 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:05:27am

Ron Paul 2007 interview advocating a 9-11 investigation with Dennis Kucinich...

Snips:

Student: …we’ve heard that you have questioned the government’s official account.

Paul: Well, I never automatically trust anything the government does when they do an investigation because too often I think there’s an area that the government covered up, whether it’s the Kennedy assassination or whatever.

...

Student: So I just wanted to say, you know, we’ve talked to Dennis Kucinich and he says that he’s willing to, you know, investigate it. He would advocate for a new investigation.

Paul: Into 9/11?

Student: Yeah, into 9/11. I mean, if it was Dennis Kucinich and you, there’d be congressional support. You know what I mean? So you wouldn’t be the only one.

Paul: It’d be bipartisan, too. And I’ve worked with Dennis a lot on a lot of these issues.

Student: So I mean, would you advocate for a new investigation into 9/11?

Paul: Yes, I think we have to look at the details of it.

...

Student: “…the investigation was an investigation in which there were government cover-ups?”

Paul: There could be a better investigation because there’s a split in government. So I would certainly consider that and think it could be worthwhile. If you do the same thing over and over again, you’re just spinning your wheels. But I would certainly work with Dennis. So I’ll talk to Dennis and he’s in a position now in the party majority, so he might have a better chance with it.

Student: Yeah, he has subpoena power and everything, so…

Paul: And we’d have a better chance of getting a new investigation. Too often investigations on almost any issue is usually a cover-up.

419 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:06:26am

re: #405 Sergey Romanov

Obama could walk on water and Palin would shriek, "Look! He can't swim!"

related(in a GOP kind of way): a friend of my wife's posted this on facebook with the caption: "Sorry about your penis."

420 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:07:13am

re: #418 NJDhockeyfan

I wouldn't be surprised if deep down he's a truther too.

421 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:07:38am

I think there is a long tradition of photos of various pets at the White House.

422 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:08:39am

Don't worry. I'm pretty sure that Sarah Palin and Fox News will issue a clarification:

Oh my garsk! It's looks like Presdeint Ronald Reagan done it too with regards to the Holiday, er, uh Christmas greeting cards.

//

423 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:08:58am

re: #420 Sergey Romanov

I wouldn't be surprised if deep down he's a truther too.

It's pretty obvious. A possible 9-11 cover-up? That's just plain nuts.

424 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:09:37am

re: #409 Gus 802

And in 1983...

Image: 4435.jpg

American Xmas is about family - and giving, and peace on earth, and the great spook in the sky's kid's birthday and all that shit - but first and foremost it is about family. That's what the Obamas are doing with their card...keeping true to an American family tradition.

425 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:10:54am

re: #423 NJDhockeyfan

Trutherism is either MIHOP or LIHOP, and raising a possibility of some cover-ups (e.g. in regard to fuckups by certain agencies) does not necessarily fall under either. So this particular interview doesn't mean he's a truther.

He does fit the profile though, as do many of his fans.

426 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:11:39am

re: #421 prairiefire

I think there is a long tradition of photos of various pets at the White House.

Bush did a fuckin' video of Barney and Miss Beasely (who the FUCK names a dog "Miss Beasely"?) and it aired fourteen fuckin' times a day on all the networks.

Peace.

427 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:14:20am

re: #425 Sergey Romanov

Trutherism is either MIHOP or LIHOP, and raising a possibility of some cover-ups (e.g. in regard to fuckups by certain agencies) does not necessarily fall under either.

Newt Gingrich handed the LIHOPs a big huge honking Christmas gift with these idiotic lines:

428 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:15:09am

re: #420 Sergey Romanov

Asked - and answered (noting that there's a Jones, Alex among payees of the 2008 Paul campaign)? And Paul has gone on Jones' show on at least one occasion to court the fringe kooks (which includes troofers).

Charles also pointed out a video showing that Paul is so vested with trying to go after the Federal Reserve, he doesn't have time to delve into the troofer madness.

429 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:16:11am

And from the morons at "The Blaze:

Family Christmas cards from Obamas, Romneys

and a comment there:

The contrast between the two are really amazing, if we as americans vote Obama back in they deserve what they get. I say they because I have an EXIT PLAN if it happens. This president is a #**+@! JOKE WTF. Anyone that thinks like him is a TRAITOR They say hisyory repeats its self. I am trying to figure out if its gonna be a revolutionry war or civil war , its to far gone, they will push until we will have to stop the madness BY FORCE. SORRY WELFARE BUMS, Your days are numbered. MERRY CHRISTMAS.!!!!!!!!!

430 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:16:58am

re: #407 Gus 802

And here's Reagan's from 1982...

Image: xxredron5a.jpg

re: #415 lawhawk

The Obama card is wholly within the tradition of prior Presidential seasons' greetings cards. That's probably what sticks in their craw so much (he's no true Christian, so there's got to be something wrong with those cards). So they obsess over some aspect of the card, even though there's nothing wrong with it. Heck, this year's card could almost pass for a Norman Rockwellesque scene.

none of which will ever compare to Loretta Sanchez' christmas cards...

the best ever was [Link: www.wonkette.com...]

431 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:17:21am

re: #423 NJDhockeyfan

Aha, what I missed is that it's actually a truther identifying himself as such who asked the question. Whether Paul is a truther or not, he certainly is willing to pander to that crowd, which in itself speaks a lot.

432 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:18:37am

Speaking of giving...all my 1%er neices and nephews will be around this Xmas...they get all the crap they need, so we were going to give them all a pair of ski socks with a $20 bill inside...then I thought, they'll scoff at 20 bucks. So we're giving them all $25 - Kiva.org gift cards instead. Sure, it's still a small amount of money, but they get to contribute to micro-loans that will help one specific person or group.

433 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:19:52am

re: #429 Gus 802

Let us not forget the central image of the Tea party: armed revolt against a tyxrannical government.

never mind that the current government was elected freely, fairly and democratically, in these people's eyes the President is a usurper and a tyrant.

They need that point of view to justify their actions.

434 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:20:02am

re: #428 lawhawk

Heh, the last one is closest to I would call explicit. "Because I can't handle it". He knows what he is being asked about.

435 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:20:05am

re: #430 sagehen

I thought that San Juan mayor's greeting cards took the cake for being the most bizarre (the explanation being that he took them at a local museum with the intention was to raise the museum's profile for tourism purposes).

436 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:21:21am

/ Ron Paul: antisemite troofer. What more could you want?

437 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:22:12am

OK, this explanation from wiki fits with my view above - even if a truther, then not open one, and when talks about cover-ups he is meaning the cover-ups of ineptness. However, could be a closet case, and certainly panders to them.

Rejection of 9/11 conspiracy theory
Paul does not believe the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were a government conspiracy and has explicitly denied being a 9/11 "truther", arguing that the issue is not a conspiracy but a failure of bureaucracy.[64][65] He believes the 9/11 Commission Report's main goal was "to protect the government and to protect their ineptness—not […] to do this so they can use this as an excuse to spread the war […] Some who did want to spread the war would use it as an opportunity. But, it wasn't something that was deliberately done."[64][67] He does not think the government would have staged such an attack.[68] When asked whether "9/11 was orchestrated by the government", Paul responded, "Absolutely not."[69] Paul has stated that he is concerned that someone might create a "contrived Gulf of Tonkin-type incident" to justify the invasion of Iran or suspend the democratic process, adding, "Let's hope I'm wrong about this one."[33]

438 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:23:26am

re: #436 EdDantes

/ Ron Paul: antisemite troofer.

But his economic policies are the very essence of excellence.

Hugs and kisses,
Paul Ryan and the modern GOP

439 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:23:51am

re: #429 Gus 802

And from the morons at "The Blaze:

Family Christmas cards from Obamas, Romneys

and a comment there:

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

440 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:25:31am

re: #439 sagehen

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

Romney can haz inspiration from Mike Huckabee?

441 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:25:51am

re: #439 sagehen

Well, nice family anyway. But yeah.

442 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:25:57am

re: #436 EdDantes

/ Ron Paul: antisemite troofer. What more could you want?

...

Yeah but like he'll stop all the wars man, legalize marijuana and stop giving aid to Israel man.

443 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:26:39am

re: #429 Gus 802

And from the morons at "The Blaze:

Family Christmas cards from Obamas, Romneys

and a comment there:

Lord, could you imagine the cranial explosions that would have occurred had the Obamas sent out a Christmas card like Romney's?

444 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:26:56am

re: #431 Sergey Romanov

Whether Paul is a truther or not, he certainly is willing to pander to that crowd, which in itself speaks a lot.

He has this attitude toward racism and anti-Semitism...why not trutherism as well?

445 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:27:33am

Again he's getting support from Stormfront...

Stormfront White Nationalists Showing Overwhelming Support For Ron Paul

Ron Paul has a huge following of supporters who call themselves 'White Nationalists' over at the website called Stormfront. Right now, there is a thread put up the other day for the December 16 Tea Party Money Bomb fundraiser that was held today asking fellow Stormfronters to help out, donate and get support for Ron Paul for his presidential campaign. I don't know if I am allowed to post a link to Stormfront but it's there including many other threads supportive of him. If you think it is safe for me to post a link there to the thread, let me know and I will. I am new here but I don't want to break forum rules. Do you think the White Nationalist support for Ron Paul will hurt him and what do you think the attraction is that White Nationalists have for Mr. Paul?

One poster stated this:

"My best guess based on following Ron Paul for over 8 years is that he secretly has White Nationalist tendencies, but he dare not admit it until he is President. Ron Paul does not want to see America swamped with Illegal Mexicans, but again he has to watch what he says. Politics is such a lousy game, as at this time you can't get elected if you tell the whole truth."

446 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:28:31am

re: #444 bratwurst

Yep, yep. For a time I thought his crowd was the Stormfront/Alex Jones crowd. Unfortunately, I learned that some bright folks were sucked in too (then Gus saw the same thing, as he can tell).

447 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:28:53am

re: #445 NJDhockeyfan

And again he won't return the money.

448 jaunte  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:29:40am

Ron Paul 2012
"Giving White Nationalists New Hope"

449 darthstar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:30:28am

re: #439 sagehen

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

Someone who can afford to buy 16 throwaway outfits.

450 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:30:28am

re: #439 sagehen

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

Lots, actually

Theres a photographer in Pawleys Island South Carolina that specializes in family portraits at the beach
Gather all the kids and grandkids, put them in matching polo shirts, shorts for the boys, skirts for the girls, and Voila,,,, many pictures just like the Romney one

The 1st time I saw it, it was a little unsettling. There I am in a lounge chair, sitting at the beach, and out through the sand dunes comes a family (about 20 or so,, ranging in age from grandparents to infant) all wearing the same outfits. A moment later the photographer and her assistant came along with all their gear and beach props.

451 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:31:10am

One cannot help but laugh at the magical thinking that emanates from the Paulbots. First is the magical thinking that this quack would ever win a presidential election. The second, and most important, is how even he did win how a former congressman that typically votes alone in the House could ever muster any support from congress which would be required to implement any of his proposed policies. The office of the president does not exist in a vacuum. Yet, the Paulbot continue to think in a magical vein thinking that one day Ron Paul will rule the land as if by decree or like a "Royal Libertarian King."

452 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:31:53am

I don't doubt for a second that Obama would wipe floor with Paul in the general in almost a landslide. I do wonder, however: if Paul became the nominee, would the hardcore R base vote for him?

453 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:32:18am

re: #449 darthstar

Someone who can afford to buy 16 throwaway outfits.

They're made from paper. //

454 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:32:44am

re: #449 darthstar

Someone who can afford to buy 16 throwaway outfits.

Yep. My grandmother once made matching dresses for my three sisters, myself, and my mom. I don't know what my mom did with hers, but the rest of us outgrew them in six months.

455 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:33:01am

re: #451 Gus 802

This sort of thinking requires a bit of an apocalyptic overtone: they see the world collapsing and Ron Paul as the only leader fit enough to step into the power vacuum and lead us back out of chaos.

456 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:33:18am

So yeah Paulbots out there in lurker land. Ron Paul can rarely even get the support of his fellow quack, Dennis Kucinich. Other than that he's been the oddball in congress for decades now. Even if, through an act of God or aliens, and he got into the White House, congress would continue to laugh at your charlatan idol.

457 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:34:16am

re: #452 Sergey Romanov

I don't doubt for a second that Obama would wipe floor with Paul in the general in almost a landslide. I do wonder, however: if Paul became the nominee, would the hardcore R base vote for him?

Not a chance. I doubt he will come close to getting enough votes to become the nominee.

458 jaunte  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:34:49am

re: #450 sattv4u2

Putting everyone in the same color outfit in group portraits tends to focus more attention on the faces, without distractions from the clothing, but the Romney's plaid shirts don't work that way.

459 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:35:00am

re: #451 Gus 802

One cannot help but laugh at the magical thinking that emanates from the Paulbots. First is the magical thinking that this quack would ever win a presidential election. The second, and most important, is how even he did win how a former congressman that typically votes alone in the House could ever muster any support from congress which would be required to implement any of his proposed policies. The office of the president does not exist in a vacuum. Yet, the Paulbot continue to think in a magical vein thinking that one day Ron Paul will rule the land as if by decree or like a "Royal Libertarian King."

It's that sort of magical thinking that says "A president can do whatever he wants, which means if something happens during his presidency, it's because he wanted it to happen." It's why I think all debates for future elections should carry a disclaimer at the bottom that says "Warning: Promises made subject to Congressional approval."

460 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:35:09am

re: #455 ralphieboy

This sort of thinking requires a bit of an apocalyptic overtone: they see the world collapsing and Ron Paul as the only leader fit enough to step into the power vacuum and lead us back out of chaos.

It's the Ron Paul Apocalypse Version 1.0™!

I suppose it could also be the Ron Paul Political Rapture of 2012™.

461 allegro  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:35:56am

re: #439 sagehen

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

My first thought when seeing the photo was of the LDS look-alike multi-wives and their prairie dresses and kids all dressed alike. (It was an instant association and not one that just came from knowing that Romney is mormon - I know he's not a LDS type.)

462 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:36:02am

re: #459 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's that sort of magical thinking that says "A president can do whatever he wants, which means if something happens during his presidency, it's because he wanted it to happen." It's why I think all debates for future elections should carry a disclaimer at the bottom that says "Warning: Promises made subject to Congressional approval."

And subsequent judicial review.

Oh noz! Reality and 3rd grade civics are coming back to haunt us!

463 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:36:42am

re: #439 sagehen

Theres a photographer in Pawleys Island South Carolina that specializes in family portraits at the beach

iirc ,, this is her

[Link: www.juliegrowe.com...]

464 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:36:51am

BBIAB

465 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:37:00am

Arlo Guthrie has endorsed Ron Paul:

...Guthrie announced he’s supporting Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, the maverick Republican candidate for president. “I love this guy,” Guthrie declared in a press release issued by the Paul campaign. “Dr. Paul is the only candidate I know of who would have signed the Constitution of the United States had he been there.”

...“I’m with him, because he seems to be the only candidate who actually believes [the Constitution] has as much relevance today as it did a couple of hundred years ago,” Guthrie said in the endorsement. “I look forward to the day when we can work out the differences we have with the same revolutionary vision and enthusiasm that is our American legacy.”

466 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:37:00am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

Not a chance. I doubt he will come close to getting enough votes to become the nominee.

People in Texas aren't hardcore R?

467 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:37:59am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

Arlo Guthrie has endorsed Ron Paul:

See #442.

468 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:38:30am

re: #452 Sergey Romanov

I don't doubt for a second that Obama would wipe floor with Paul in the general in almost a landslide. I do wonder, however: if Paul became the nominee, would the hardcore R base vote for him?

I'm a republican and I am on record here saying I will vote for Obama before I vote for Ron Paul.

469 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:38:37am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

he will legalize littering

470 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:39:06am

re: #468 EdDantes

I'm a republican and I am on record here saying I will vote for Obama before I vote for Ron Paul.

You're not hardcore R base if you're at LGF :P

471 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:39:59am

Poor ol' washed up Nick Gillespie goes to bat for Nor Luap in the Washington Post.

Five myths about Ron Paul

472 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:40:39am

re: #467 Gus 802

His dad is my avatar.

473 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:41:41am

re: #472 EdDantes

His dad is my avatar.

Woody?

474 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:43:11am

re: #473 Gus 802

Woody?

No I don't, but thanks for asking.

475 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:44:24am

re: #473 Gus 802

Woody?

Yes indeed.

476 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:45:36am

Ron Paul's running mate: Jesse Ventura?

As presidential hopeful Ron Paul continues to gain momentum in his bid for the GOP nomination, former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura has suggested that the two of them could cause quite a stir if Paul would bring him on board as his running mate.

“It would create unbelievable excitement if Ron Paul and I ran as the libertarian ticket,” Ventura told radio host Alex Jones of Infowars during a Tuesday night broadcast.

...Though he has not held an elected political position in years, Ventura suggests that the team of Paul and Ventura running on the Libertarian ticket could be a big move for America. And while Ventura says that Paul is picking up speed in his race, the Texas congressman is going to have to dig deep to garner the support of the voting public that neglects to hit the polls.

“Ron Paul can win. It’s out there. All you got to do is activate and get the silent voters out to vote,” says Ventura. “You have to give them a reason to see their vote.”

When quizzed by Jones on if he would seriously ponder running with Paul given the opportunity, Ventura said he would give it “very serious consideration” but would have to take it up with his wife first.

Ventura was explicit in that it wouldn’t be a GOP ticket that would bring the two together, however. “Ron Paul needs to quit the Republican Party, get the nomination for the Libertarian Party,” says Ventura.

Paul/ Ventura 2012!

477 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:45:43am

Wow. Marines have balls.

Asked Michelle Obama to be his date for the Marine Corps Ball.

478 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:45:52am

re: #471 Gus 802

What, not a word about the newsletters?

479 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:50:59am

re: #478 Sergey Romanov

What, not a word about the newsletters?

That's not a myth.

481 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:51:50am

re: #478 Sergey Romanov

What, not a word about the newsletters?

That's not a myth.

482 iossarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:52:48am

re: #480 NJDhockeyfan

Barry Manilow on Ron Paul: ‘I agree with just about everything he says’

"Apart from the bits about Jewish people."

484 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:53:31am

Another reason not to like Barry Manilow.

485 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:53:32am

re: #479 NJDhockeyfan

That's not a myth.

Yes, they're the elephant in the room.

486 jaunte  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:54:46am

What is the world coming to when you can't rely on show biz people for good political advice?

487 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:55:08am

Little blues break?

My friend Patrick Polk (Some of you may recall my pages of him last year) moved to Oakland. He can now be found online playing his blues as koyote Patrick Polk.

Obdicut you'll remember this guy.

488 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:55:15am

re: #483 Lidane

Conservatives Pan GOP Strategy On Payroll Tax Cut: ‘A Fiasco,’ ‘Entirely Outplayed’ By Obama

[Video]

That's because the GOP really had no strategy. They were perfectly okay with allowing it to just expire up until two weeks ago. Even Boehner, who now's suddenly concerned about it expiring, was arguing that it was okay to let it expire because it "hadn't worked."

489 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:57:07am

This report will make your head spin...

South American states ban Falklands vessels from ports

490 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:57:48am

re: #452 Sergey Romanov

Yes, because to the GOP base, it's anyone but Obama. So, we'd see a landslide of epic proportions in the electoral college (meeting or exceeding Mondale's drubbing in 1984 or FDR's win in 1936) where you'd still manage to see Paul get somewhere in the range of 35-45 million votes out of what would probably be 100-110 million cast.

But that's making the assumption that he could win the nomination in the first place, and I put those chances as very low.

491 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:58:07am

re: #439 sagehen

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

We couldn't do that at the last family wedding.

492 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:00:02am

re: #480 NJDhockeyfan

Barry Manilow on Ron Paul: ‘I agree with just about everything he says’

Apparently the free market isn't doing enough for atrial fibrillation, however.

493 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:00:12am

re: #491 Alouette

We couldn't do that at the last family wedding.

Yeah ,,,Hard to find a wedding dress for an 8 year old!!

(except in some counties in Arkansas!!!)

///

494 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:01:08am

re: #489 Gus 802

This report will make your head spin...

South American states ban Falklands vessels from ports

Hallibushobamahitler wants them for a gas pipeline!! 11ty!!!

495 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:01:38am

More weirdness.

Argentina police raid Clarin Group Cablevision channel

Argentine police have raided the offices of a cable television network owned by the giant Clarin media group, which is involved in a bitter dispute with the government.

The raid on Cablevision was ordered by a judge investigating alleged unfair competition.

Cablevision said it was part of a "systematic campaign of harassment" against the Clarin group.

The government has denied ordering the intervention.

More than 50 officers arrived at Cablevision's headquarters in Buenos Aires to enforce an order issued by a judge investigating allegations by a rival television company that the broadcaster had abused its dominant market position.

The judge appointed a co-administrator to examine the company's records and prepare a report within 60 days.

Police withdrew after several hours when their action was challenged by lawyers for Cablevision.

There probably are monopoly concerns regarding Clarin. However, using strongarm tactics like this is embarrassing and reeks of a banana republic. Here's an idea Argentina, how about creating anti-trust laws and using a a fairly based court system to work out these problems.

496 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:05:11am

re: #494 Shiplord Kirel

Hallibushobamahitler wants them for a gas pipeline!! 11ty!!!

Close. Probably because of PM Cameron. I'm sure that Chavez is also pulling some strings in the background. In any case while there may have been a legitimate claim for the Malvinas in the 1800s it's too late to make that claim now. After all, if we go back a little further Argentina was a Spanish colony that took the land from the native people there. They need to give it up and stop looking for excuses. And it's pathetic to see Argentina lead this charge under the alleged leftist Fernandez since the Malvinas hysteria was a big issue for the far-right military leadership back in the day.

497 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:15:47am

re: #439 sagehen

OMG!! what kind of nutcase dresses 16 grandchildren in matching outfits to pose for a photo?!?

Actually, using exact matches might be easier than trying to get a match with less specific instructions, like "Wear earth tones," or "Wear pastel." There's always that one person who doesn't get that hot pink is neither, and ruins the photo.

498 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:16:29am

re: #497 EmmmieG

see 450 and 463

499 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:19:03am

re: #404 Gus 802

Yo. Sawah! Here's the Christmas greeting card from the Bush White House in 2006:

Image: 4804.jpg

All I see is a bunch of snow and the White House.

But there was a white christian in the white house then so all that family values and stuff was just assumed.

500 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:19:13am

And the big story.

Iraqi Leader Threatens to Abandon Power-Sharing

BAGHDAD — Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq threatened on Wednesday to abandon an American-backed power sharing government created a year ago, throwing the country’s fragile democracy into further turmoil just days after the departure of American troops.

In a nearly 90-minute news conference aired on tape-delay on state television, Mr. Maliki defied his rivals and pushed back on all fronts in Iraq’s burgeoning political crisis, threatening to release investigatory files that he claimed show his opponents have been involved in terrorism.

He told Kurdish leaders that there would be “problems” if they do not turn over Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, who fled to the semi-autonomous Kurdish region in recent days to escape an arrest warrant on charges he ran a death squad responsible for assassinations and bombings.

The Iraqi leader, a Shiite, also issued a warning to his rivals from Iraqiya, the largely Sunni bloc of lawmakers that includes Mr. Hashemi: if it does not end its boycott of Parliament and the Council of Ministers, he would move to form a majority government that would, in essence, exclude them from power...

501 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:21:04am

re: #477 Obdicut

Is there some tradition of asking married women to that ball? Or something?

502 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:22:19am

re: #500 Gus 802

And the big story.

Iraqi Leader Threatens to Abandon Power-Sharing

Iraq will break up into three countries along the traditional religious and ethnic lines that were ignored when it was carved out of surrendered Ottomon territory at the end of World War I.

503 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:27:41am

Cuba mourns death of North Korean leader

Yeah. Official Cuba. I'm pretty sure that most Cubans don't give a crap about that nutcase Kim Jong-il and have no interest in seeing North Korea as a role model. And what other than in some unfortunate turn of events does Cuban culture have anything to do with North Korea? It's bad enough that for many years now they forced Cubans to adopt a Soviet way of life that no longer exists. Cuba should be for the Cubans, Afro-Cubans, and the Spaniards that founded the nation. It should not be for the long gone Soviets and North Korea.

504 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:29:04am

Woo.. The Hobbit trailer has been released. Proceed in Tolkien geekery!

505 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:30:00am

re: #503 Gus 802

Cuba mourns death of North Korean leader

Yeah. Official Cuba. I'm pretty sure that most Cubans don't give a crap about that nutcase Kim Jong-il and have no interest in seeing North Korea as a role model. And what other than in some unfortunate turn of events does Cuban culture have anything to do with North Korea? It's bad enough that for many years now they forced Cubans to adopt a Soviet way of life that no longer exists. Cuba should be for the Cubans, Afro-Cubans, and the Spaniards that founded the nation. It should not be for the long gone Soviets and North Korea.

Excerpt:

Government opponents said they feared Cuban leaders could circumvent the constitution and follow North Korea's lead by quickly replacing Machado Ventura with a Castro family member.

"I hope that way of thinking does not take hold on the island," said human rights activist Elizardo Sanchez. "But it could be that there are people thinking of that type of dynastic scheme with the children, grandchildren etc."

"In these parts, as well, genealogy has been more determinate than ballot boxes, and the heritage of blood has left us, in 53 years, only two presidents both with the same last name," wrote dissident blogger Yoani Sanchez.

"The dauphin over there is named Kim Jong-un; perhaps soon they will communicate to us that over here ours will be Alejandro Castro Espin. Just to think about it makes me shudder," Sanchez said, referring to the son of Raul Castro.

But other Cubans discounted the possibility that the government would put another Castro in power, saying the Cuban system would not permit it.

506 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:33:13am

re: #501 Rightwingconspirator

Is there some tradition of asking married women to that ball? Or something?

I don't think so. I'm not that knowledgeable. I would note that the previous celebrity asks haven't been, you know, overtly sexual, or even romantic.

507 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:33:13am

re: #505 Gus 802

Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss

508 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:39:24am

re: #507 sattv4u2

Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss

[Video]

Image: 504px-Kim_jong-un_clapping.png

Another in a long line of free thinkers.

//

509 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:39:53am

There are no class distinctions in North Korea!

//

510 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:40:56am

re: #484 EdDantes

Another reason not to like Barry Manilow.

Like we needed another....

511 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:41:05am

re: #508 Gus 802

Image: 504px-Kim_jong-un_clapping.png

Another in a long line of free thinkers.

//

Looks like a scene from "Chairman Mao: The Early Years."

512 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:42:34am

re: #511 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Looks like a scene from "Chairman Mao: The Early Years."

[Link: hoffstrizz.typepad.com...]

513 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:42:44am

re: #511 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Looks like a scene from "Chairman Mao: The Early Years."

Sure does but I'm pretty sure that they don't consciously try to emulate their founder in what could be called a "fashion statement."

//

514 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:43:55am

re: #513 Gus 802

Sure does but I'm pretty sure that they don't consciously try to emulate their founder in what could be called a "fashion statement."

//

I dunno

The collars in the photos in 511 and 512 look ,, umm,,, familiar!!

515 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:45:13am

re: #508 Gus 802

Image: 504px-Kim_jong-un_clapping.png

Another in a long line of free thinkers.

//

Funny, he doesn't look hungry?

516 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:45:37am

re: #514 sattv4u2

Except that goes against the North Korean way (juche). You must be wrong. /

517 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:46:42am

re: #501 Rightwingconspirator

Is there some tradition of asking married women to that ball? Or something?

A couple months ago, some guy on posted a you-tube saying he had a crush on Mila Kunis and she'd be his dream date for the Marine Ball -- Justin Timberlake, while they were doing a joint interview for a movie they're in together, teased her about it on camera and she said "hey why not? Sure, I'll go." So some other marine posted a video asking JT, and he went.

Now marines are getting the idea that hey, dream big, it can't hurt to ask. (although really, your commander-in-chief's wife might be pushing it a little).

518 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:48:00am

re: #517 sagehen

His immediate CO might be less than charmed by this.

519 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:50:59am

re: #517 sagehen

(although really, your commander-in-chief's wife might be pushing it a little).

Ya Think?!
Guess where his unit gets assigned next.
//

520 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:52:06am

Ron Paul is saying he never read those newsletters? He had a different story back in 1996 when asked about the same newsletters.

Candidate's comments on blacks questioned
The Dallas Morning News - May 22, 1996

WASHINGTON - Dr. Ron Paul, a Republican congressional candidate from Texas, wrote in his political newsletter in 1992 that 95 percent of the black men in Washington, D.C., are "semi-criminal or entirely criminal."
He also wrote that black teenagers can be "unbelievably fleet of foot."
An official with the NAACP in Texas said the comments were racist and offensive.

Dr. Paul, who is running in Texas' 14th Congressional District, defended his writings in an interview Tuesday. He said they were being taken out of context.

"It's typical political demagoguery," he said. "If people are interested in my character . . . come and talk to my neighbors."

Dr. Paul, an ex-congressman and former Libertarian Party presidential candidate, defeated Rep. Greg Laughlin, R-West Columbia, in April for the Republican nomination for the U.S. House.

An obstetrician from Surfside, he faces Democratic lawyer Charles "Lefty" ! Morris of Bee Cave in the November general election. Mr. Morris, who said he was familiar with the writings in question, declined to comment about the specifics.

"Many of his views are out on the fringe," Mr. Morris said. "But voters in the 14th District have to characterize these the way they see it. His statements speak for themselves."

According to a Dallas Morning News review of documents circulating among Texas Democrats, Dr. Paul wrote in a 1992 issue of the Ron Paul Political Report: "If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet of foot they can be."

Dr. Paul, who served in Congress in the late 1970s and early 1980s, said Tuesday that he has produced the newsletter since 1985 and distributes it to an estimated 7,000 to 8,000 subscribers. A phone call to the newsletter's toll-free number was answered by his campaign staff.

Dr. Paul also said he did not know how his newsletter came to be ! included in a directory by the Heritage Front, a neo-Nazi group based in Canada. The newsletter was listed on the Internet under the directory's heading "Racialists and Freedom Fighters."

No one answered calls to the Heritage Front, which lists only a hotline connected to a tape-recorded message in the Toronto telephone directory.

521 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:52:18am

Totally irrelevant to everything, but interesting:

[Link: www.sltrib.com...]

522 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:54:49am

re: #520 NJDhockeyfan

This is like Christmas dinner at the crazy uncle's house.

523 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:56:14am

re: #511 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Looks like a scene from "Chairman Mao: The Early Years."

Get a socialist haircut, North Korea tells men

524 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:56:34am

re: #521 EmmmieG

Totally irrelevant to everything, but interesting:

[Link: www.sltrib.com...]

I once knew a guy who lived next door to someone whose cousin lived in Florida. The Floridian cousin once hit a dog with his car and took the dog to a vet. The vet's mother-in-law once went to a party hosted by a guy that donated $20 to John Kennedy when he ran fro President

So,,, I'm kinda/sorta related!!

////

525 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:59:59am

re: #523 Gus 802

Get a socialist haircut, North Korea tells men

A hidden camera exposed long-haired men at various locations in Pyongyang. Some ran away, while others were given the chance to explain themselves. Several said they were too busy to get a trim. Their names and addresses were given as a warning to others.

Amazon has had a run on these ever since the edict was issued

[Link: www.80stees.com...]

526 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:01:58am

re: #525 sattv4u2

A hidden camera exposed long-haired men at various locations in Pyongyang. Some ran away, while others were given the chance to explain themselves. Several said they were too busy to get a trim. Their names and addresses were given as a warning to others.

Amazon has had a run on these ever since the edict was issued

[Link: www.80stees.com...]

"Let's trim our hair in accordance with the socialist lifestyle."

Why do I picture a really big, really scary Nanny when I read that.

"Let's take our medicine and then eat our vegetables."

But...are you taking the medication?"

"No, we are. Swallow. Now."

527 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:02:02am

re: #525 sattv4u2

OMG!! They have some kick ass tee shirts!!

528 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:02:52am

re: #527 Cannadian Club Akbar

OMG!! They have some kick ass tee shirts!!

Yeah ,, I know ,, AND , more important, how are you doing?

529 jaunte  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:04:01am

re: #523 Gus 802

The five-part series, entitled "Let's trim our hair in accordance with the socialist lifestyle", exhorted them to opt for one of several officially sanctioned haircuts, including the crew cut and the "high, middle and low" styles. Hair should be kept between 1cm and 5cm in length and should be trimmed every 15 days, it said.
...
The TV series, which began last year as part of the regular Common Sense programme, claimed that long hair is unhealthy and adversely affects "human intelligence development".

Let Breitbart know that his magic ponytail obsession is right in line with modern Juche thought.

530 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:04:05am

re: #528 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, I know ,, AND , more important, how are you doing/

Started a new job. First day-4 hours. Yesterday 3. This is going just as planned.
///

531 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:04:27am

afternoon all!

woke-up with a killer migraine.

THANK GRAVEL it's gone.

How has your day been?

532 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:05:48am

Speaker Cuts Off C-SPAN Cameras When Dems Attempt To Bring Vote On Payroll Tax Cut

During a quick pro-forma session of the House this morning, Republicans rebuffed a Democratic attempt to force an up-or-down vote on the Senate-passed payroll tax holiday extension, which Republicans have thus far refused to allow. Rep. Michael Fitzpatrick (R-PA), who was serving as the speaker pro-temp, ignored shouts of “Mr. Speaker!” from Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD) and Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), quickly adjourning the House.

Hoyer continued talking undeterred, saying, “You’re walking away, just as so many Republicans have walked away from middle-class taxpayers [and] the unemployed.” “We regret, Mr. Speaker, that you have walked off the platform without addressing this issue of critical importance to this country,” Hoyer added.

Moments later, the mic appeared to cut out. A few seconds after that, the video feed switched away from the House floor to a still image of the Capitol Dome. It appears someone in House Speaker John Boehner’s (R-OH) office cut the feed, as C-SPAN tweeted afterwards: “C-SPAN has no control over the U.S. House TV cameras – the Speaker of the House does.”

533 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:06:18am

re: #531 ggt

afternoon all!

woke-up with a killer migraine.

THANK GRAVEL it's gone.

How has your day been?

2 days till vacation.

534 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:06:23am

re: #525 sattv4u2

"People who wear others' style of dress will become fools, and that nation will come to ruin,"

we're doomed

:0

535 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:06:57am

...OT...
But DAMN....
I happen to know this guys Uncle and Aunt (they live in the "Valley"!)
I feel bad for his new found notoriety!

[Link: www.ksl.com...]
Hope y'all have a Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday!!

536 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:07:12am

re: #532 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaker Cuts Off C-SPAN Cameras When Dems Attempt To Bring Vote On Payroll Tax Cut

Think he was using "strong" language?

537 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:07:54am

re: #529 jaunte

Let Breitbart know that his magic ponytail obsession is right in line with modern Juche thought.

"Someone needs to tell ponytail man to get a haircut!" -- Andrew Breitbart-il

538 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:09:30am

Forum Post: Kim Jong Il murdered as part of major Asian power battle

Burp.

This comment's a hoot...

They call us conspiracy theorists. I predicted all of this once the USA went for Iraq, and I knew many more false flags (underwear bomber/shoe bomber, etc) would be exploited. They were CIA assets, and like many others throughout history. I follow no shepherd, remain open and the truth always reveals itself. If you call it out after wards, they always seem to forget that you point it out. Most of this country is under a hypnotic spell. The shepherd is the TV,news, media, and even books and movies. Always read between the lines and spin, it is this gray area where the truth can always be found.

539 Ming  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:09:37am

re: #2 mattand

Christ. I was little Paul-curious back in 2007-2008. Once I found out he was questioning evolution, I backed off in a hurry.

This is my second OMIGOD moment in 2 days about Ron Paul. Yesterday, I find out at LGF that he was as recently as 2007 (and maybe still is) chummy with neo-Nazis. Today, I find out at LGF that he's skeptical about evolution! From a quick Google for "Ron Paul" evolution, it looks like he really doesn't accept evolution!

I suppose I shouldn't be shocked by any of the Republican candidates at this point, but still... And since Ron Paul was (still is?) a licensed medical doctor, his skepticism on evolution is especially distressing. For all the science he knows (or once knew?) he's still hedging his bets on evolution? Sounds like a stubborn guy! No surprise there. Good thing a President never needs to deal with people who have different viewpoints from his or her own.

John Huntsman's gotta be feeling embarrassed around now, for ever being part of this group of Republican primary clowns. What a collection! You can't make this stuff up!

540 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:10:18am

re: #532 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaker Cuts Off C-SPAN Cameras When Dems Attempt To Bring Vote On Payroll Tax Cut

Heh, GOP bad decisions coming back to bite them in the ass. They decided they were going to keep a skeleton crew on hand and keep holding sessions every so many days, so as to prevent Obama from making recess appointments. Instead, now the Democrats who are still there will hammer them to get a vote on this bill before Dec 31st.

541 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:12:33am

re: #538 Gus 802

I predicted all of this once the USA went for Iraq,

Everyone has always known the road to North Korea leads through Mosul!!!

542 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:12:50am

Meanwhile in South Korea...

Suspicions linger over dictator's death

So typical. South Korea's kind of...how would I put it...

543 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:14:54am

re: #542 Gus 802

Meanwhile in South Korea...

Suspicions linger over dictator's death

So typical. South Korea's kind of...how would I put it...

To young to even know why there is a North and South. They are also to stoopid to listen to people who lived through it or crack a fuckin' book.

544 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:14:56am

re: #538 Gus 802

Forum Post: Kim Jong Il murdered as part of major Asian power battle

Kim Jong Il was assassinated by Jas Hennessy & Co, producers of fine cognac. Anybody who says different is just deluded.

545 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:15:36am

re: #544 The Ghost of a Flea

Kim Jong Il was assassinated by Jas Hennessy & Co, producers of fine cognac. Anybody who says different is just deluded.

I heard it was Slartibartfast.

546 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:15:42am

Actual headlines from Infowars:

Martial Law Attempt In Louisiana Echoes Ron Paul’s Warning!

Latest media talking point: ‘If Ron Paul wins Iowa it won’t count’!

New Poll: Ron Paul Betters Other GOP Candidates Vs Obama!

Govt. Says It Can Assassinate or Indefinitely Detain Americans on American Soil Without Any Due Process!

Ron Paul is in The Fight of His Life, We Must Stand With Him!

547 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:15:50am

re: #543 Cannadian Club Akbar

To young to even know why there is a North and South. They are also to stoopid to listen to people who lived through it or crack a fuckin' book.

*too

548 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:16:20am

re: #547 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

*too

*two

549 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:16:38am

re: #544 The Ghost of a Flea

Kim Jong Il was assassinated by Jas Hennessy & Co, producers of fine cognac. Anybody who says different is just deluded.

Kim Jong-Il has abandoned his human shell, resumed his original form and returned to the Cockroach planet! And Arec Barwin is worfress!

550 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:17:32am

re: #544 The Ghost of a Flea

Kim Jong Il was assassinated by Jas Hennessy & Co, producers of fine cognac. Anybody who says different is just deluded.

The perpetrator was

The Most Interesting Man In The World!!

(stay thirsty, my friends)

551 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:17:45am

re: #548 Cannadian Club Akbar

*two

2

552 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:17:56am

Quiz: Candidate Match Game
Answer the following questions to see which candidate is most like you.

553 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:18:07am

re: #539 Ming

This is my second OMIGOD moment in 2 days about Ron Paul. Yesterday, I find out at LGF that he was as recently as 2007 (and maybe still is) chummy with neo-Nazis. Today, I find out at LGF that he's skeptical about evolution! From a quick Google for "Ron Paul" evolution, it looks like he really doesn't accept evolution!

I suppose I shouldn't be shocked by any of the Republican candidates at this point, but still... And since Ron Paul was (still is?) a licensed medical doctor, his skepticism on evolution is especially distressing. For all the science he knows (or once knew?) he's still hedging his bets on evolution? Sounds like a stubborn guy! No surprise there.

He's an OBGYN who has proposed "life begins at conception" legislation. That there is about as ignorant as it gets.

554 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:18:19am

re: #551 sattv4u2

2

II

555 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:18:51am

re: #551 sattv4u2

Dos...?

556 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:19:01am

re: #521 EmmmieG

Totally irrelevant to everything, but interesting:

[Link: www.sltrib.com...]

if I ran for president, would they trace all my 10th cousins too? Odds are, that would make me related to every Ashkenasi ever. Albert Einstein and Robert Oppenheimer would get me the neocon vote, Steven Spielberg and the Marx Brothers would bring in the Hollywood donations, Moshe Dayan, Golde Meir, and Bibi would turn all the evangelical candidates apoplectic with envy when I mention it at the AIPIC fanfest.

Can the Rothschilds make unlimited donations to my Super-Pac?

557 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:19:14am

re: #554 ggt

II

funny ,,, you don't look Roman!

558 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:19:22am

re: #555 reloadingisnotahobby

Dos...?

We speak american here, hombre.
/

559 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:19:34am

re: #555 reloadingisnotahobby

Dos...?

Equis

560 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:20:41am

re: #558 Cannadian Club Akbar

...(holding up two fingers)
...dis many??

561 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:21:14am

Well, I went back and read that article in Reason again, the one that claimed Lew Rockwell wrote Ron Paul's newsletters, and it's simply NOT convincing at all.

First, Rockwell absolutely denies writing the newsletters. Second, the source given by Weigel and Sanchez for their claim is someone from Ron Paul's campaign. Credibility: zero.

Third, Ron Paul himself defended the content of the newsletters years ago, before he decided it was a liability and started dissembling about it. He's lying. If he wanted to find out who really wrote them, he could simply ASK the people who worked on it. That is, if he really didn't write it, and was seriously interested in laying the issue to rest.

He's not interested in that. He's just hoping it blows over with the help of useful idiots like Andrew Sullivan and E.D. Kain -- who actually wrote that concern about the newsletters is "silly."

Sure. It's "silly" to point out that someone running for President is a flat out, ugly racist.

562 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:21:14am

re: #550 sattv4u2

The perpetrator was

The Most Interesting Man In The World!!

(stay thirsty, my friends)

He doesn't always assassinate dictators on armored trains, but when he does...

563 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:21:27am

re: #560 reloadingisnotahobby

...(holding up two fingers)
...dis many??

Si.

564 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:23:05am

re: #542 Gus 802

What we "know" of L'il Kim's death is provided courtesy of the North Korean propaganda machine. Did he really die on the train of a heart attack while "inspecting" various parts of the country, or did he die in bed in Pyongyang?

He's dead either way. How he died is something that the intel services will try to figure out to see if they missed clues or simply couldn't penetrate the North Korean veil of secrecy.

Much more concerning is that no one seems to know much about Jong-un, and whether he's going to be fully in charge or his aunt/uncle will be pulling the strings at the outset.

The NYT for its part, casts doubt on the Jong-il as sportsman nonsense that the North Koreans regularly published (as in hitting 5 holes in one the very first time he played golf) in a report that is much about humor and satire as a proper report debunking the propaganda spewing forth from the regime that reinforces the personality cult surrounding the Kim clan..

565 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:23:12am

re: #550 sattv4u2

The perpetrator was

The Most Interesting Man In The World!!

(stay thirsty, my friends)

Jonathan Goldsmith

567 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:23:53am
568 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:24:32am

re: #561 Charles

It's "silly" to point out that someone running for President is a flat out, ugly racist.

You so sirry.

/oops, meme crossover effect

569 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:25:00am

Sure enough their white sheets are showing over at Infowars:

The CNN / ORC poll shows Paul bettering Obama 47 to 46 percent among “the most reliable” group of voters, those who are 65 years and older. Paul attracts more independents than Obama by 48 to 47 percent. The Congressman also betters Obama 51 to 46 percent among white voters and betters the incumbent president 52 to 44 percent among voters residing in rural areas.

That is what this poll shows. Meanwhile over at Gallup Gingrich is still leading the GOP pack. Nor Luap is 3rd at 12 percent. The CNN/ORC numbers seem a little funky -- much like the PPP poll.

570 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:25:05am

re: #561 Charles

Well, I went back and read that article in Reason again, the one that claimed Lew Rockwell wrote Ron Paul's newsletters, and it's simply NOT convincing at all.

First, Rockwell absolutely denies writing the newsletters. Second, the source given by Weigel and Sanchez for their claim is someone from Ron Paul's campaign. Credibility: zero.

Third, Ron Paul himself defended the content of the newsletters years ago, before he decided it was a liability and started dissembling about it. He's lying. If he wanted to find out who really wrote them, he could simply ASK the people who worked on it. That is, if he really didn't write it, and was seriously interested in laying the issue to rest.

He's not interested in that. He's just hoping it blows over with the help of useful idiots like Andrew Sullivan and E.D. Kain -- who actually wrote that concern about the newsletters is "silly."

Sure. It's "silly" to point out that someone running for President is a flat out, ugly racist.

From 1996:

Dr. Paul, who is running in Texas' 14th Congressional District, defended his writings in an interview Tuesday. He said they were being taken out of context.

"It's typical political demagoguery," he said. "If people are interested in my character . . . come and talk to my neighbors."

That's all I need to see.

571 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:26:13am

re: #552 NJDhockeyfan

Quiz: Candidate Match Game
Answer the following questions to see which candidate is most like you.

Obama, by a pretty large margin (with Luap Nor a distant second)

572 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:30:06am

Turns out Skyrim has a South too.

Image: demotivational-posters-whiterun.jpg

573 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:31:52am

re: #561 Charles

The source given is actually this:

Yet in interviews with reason, a half-dozen longtime libertarian activists—including some still close to Paul—all named the same man as Paul's chief ghostwriter: Ludwig von Mises Institute founder Llewellyn Rockwell, Jr.

That's sufficient for me. These people are named later in the article, with details. It's simply incorrect that the guy from the campaign is the single source.

The reason Paul doesn't openly name Rockwell is also explained:

To this day Rockwell remains a friend and advisor to Paul—accompanying him to major media appearances; promoting his candidacy on the LewRockwell.com blog; publishing his books; and peddling an array of the avuncular Texas congressman's recent writings and audio recordings.

574 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:32:06am

Ha! They're drinking the Ron Paul Koolaid in Iowa? The NY Times has Ron Paul ahead for the caucus there. This is based on average from a wide range of polls and dates.

575 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:33:35am

re: #574 Gus 802

Ha! They're drinking the Ron Paul Koolaid in Iowa? The NY Times has Ron Paul ahead for the caucus there. This is based on average from a wide range of polls and dates.

Seems like everyone but the frothy mix and Huntsman has had their turn at the top of the polls.

576 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:33:50am

Ron Paul is consistent. In a crazy world, that will make people feel safe in voting for him. I'm talking about the people who get all their news from MSM newsbites.

577 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:33:59am

re: #569 Gus 802

Nice to see them cherry picking details from the crosstabs. By most every other metric, Paul gets trounced in a head-to-head with Obama. 53-43 overall. Age 50-64 puts Obama ahead 57-40. Obama is ahead on all age groups other than 65+, where Paul's ahead by a single point (and well within the MOE).

Rural voters lean Paul 52/44.

578 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:34:53am

Also from Gallup.

Both Romney and Gingrich Tie Obama on 2012 Ballot

All I can say is that it will be close race. If Democrats stay home in large numbers it won't bode well for a reelection. "Getting out the vote" is of primary importance in this race. Also convincing some of the moonbats not to cross over and vote for any 3rd party candidates.

579 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:36:03am

re: #578 Gus 802

Also from Gallup.

Both Romney and Gingrich Tie Obama on 2012 Ballot

All I can say is that it will be close race. If Democrats stay home in numbers it won't bode well for a reelection. "Getting out the vote" is of primary importance in this race. Also convincing some of the moonbats not to cross over and vote for any 3rd party candidates.

Is Getting Out the Vote ever not important in a presidential election?

580 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:36:24am

re: #572 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Turns out Skyrim has a South too.

Image: demotivational-posters-whiterun.jpg

Go to Windhelm as an Altmer or Argonian.
Yeesh.
;)

581 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:37:00am

re: #580 Varek Raith

Go to Windhelm as an Altmer or Argonian.
Yeesh.
;)

Only you would say that.

582 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:37:16am

re: #223 Obdicut

Oh, and we went to the menorah-lighting in Central Park last night.

It is really, really ugly. Kind of bafflingly ugly.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I've yet to see a big public one that's really wildly attractive.

583 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:37:41am

re: #224 Gus 802

Jackson Thoreau. Also the author of "The Strange Death of the Woman Who Filed a Rape Lawsuit Against Bush & Other Things the. Bush Administration Doesn t Want You to Know".

I'm convinced. Can I get a signed copy of the new book?

//

584 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:38:03am

re: #579 EmmmieG

Is Getting Out the Vote ever not important in a presidential election?

Not if it's a sure thing. It's always important but there are always levels of urgency. Getting out the vote in 2008 for example -- compared to 2012. In other words in 2012 it will be critical.

585 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:38:12am

re: #564 lawhawk

What we "know" of L'il Kim's death is provided courtesy of the North Korean propaganda machine. Did he really die on the train of a heart attack while "inspecting" various parts of the country, or did he die in bed in Pyongyang?

He's dead either way. How he died is something that the intel services will try to figure out to see if they missed clues or simply couldn't penetrate the North Korean veil of secrecy.

Given the scale and audacity of the mythopoetic flourishes that shape the Juche version of the Kim family, it could be quite awhile before it gets sorted out what happened. With what's come before, I keep waiting for the NK propaganda machine to announce something miraculous to happen to his corpse.

586 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:38:15am

re: #574 Gus 802

It's a caucus, so whoever has the best GOTV/ground game would do well. Back in 2008 Huckabee won, and McCain was 4th, behind Mitt and Thompson. We know how that turned out.

I wouldn't get too carried away with a poll showing Paul ahead, and it certainly doesn't mean he's going to win the nomination. It does show that there are more than enough people out there who are willing to overlook his conspiracy addled mind and associations with conspiracy-mongers and white supremacists.

587 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:38:42am

re: #580 Varek Raith

Go to Windhelm as an Altmer or Argonian.
Yeesh.
;)

And there's always the wonderful Thalmor, who march around in LoTR-style SS uniforms.

588 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:38:42am

re: #580 Varek Raith

Go to Windhelm as an Altmer or Argonian.
Yeesh.
;)

I'm a cat-dog.

Khajit werewolf for life baby.

589 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:39:07am

re: #580 Varek Raith

Go to Windhelm as an Altmer or Argonian.
Yeesh.
;)

So pissed they won't let me be a Thalmor. :-(

590 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:39:26am

re: #587 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And there's always the wonderful Thalmor, who march around in LoTR-style SS uniforms.

Oh, you mean those guys I keep ganking on the roads?

591 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:39:31am

re: #586 lawhawk

It's a caucus, so whoever has the best GOTV/ground game would do well. Back in 2008 Huckabee won, and McCain was 4th, behind Mitt and Thompson. We know how that turned out.

I wouldn't get too carried away with a poll showing Paul ahead, and it certainly doesn't mean he's going to win the nomination. It does show that there are more than enough people out there who are willing to overlook his conspiracy addled mind and associations with conspiracy-mongers and white supremacists.

Yeah. It doesn't matter too much. Ron Paul could very well win the Iowa caucus. That doesn't translate into a primary win at all. But don't tell the Paulbots that. If he does win Iowa they'll think he won the presidency.

592 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:39:57am

re: #582 SanFranciscoZionist

This is about the only truly attractive menorah of public display size, but not for Hannukah.

593 Honorary Consul General  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:39:57am

The start of a geek thread is the perfect time for me to go have a smoke.:)

594 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:40:04am

re: #572 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Turns out Skyrim has a South too.

Image: demotivational-posters-whiterun.jpg

If he knows what's best for him, he'll get out of town before he takes an arrow to the knee.

595 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:40:06am

re: #584 Gus 802

Not if it's a sure thing. It's always important but there are always levels of urgency. Getting out the vote in 2008 for example -- compared to 2012. In other words in 2012 it will be critical.

Also remember what happened in 2010. The get out the vote campaign was a failure.

596 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:40:28am

re: #590 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, you mean those guys I keep ganking on the roads?

Yeah, the same ones I killed a bunch of in order to release a Stormcloak prisoner, even though I'm still going to end up supporting the Imperials.

597 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:40:54am

re: #588 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm a cat-dog.

Khajit werewolf for life baby.

Really?

why?

598 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:41:35am

Some of the people cited in the reason article:

Rockwell has denied responsibility for the newsletters' contents to The New Republic's Jamie Kirchick. Rockwell twice declined to discuss the matter with reason, maintaining this week that he had "nothing to say."

[...]

But a source close to the Paul presidential campaign told reason that Rockwell authored much of the content of the Political Report and Survival Report. "If Rockwell had any honor he'd come out and I say, ‘I wrote this stuff,'"said the source, who asked not to be named because Paul remains friendly with Rockwell and is reluctant to assign responsibility for the letters. "He should have done it 10 years ago."

Rockwell was publicly named as Paul's ghostwriter as far back as a 1988 issue of the now-defunct movement monthly American Libertarian. "This was based on my understanding at the time that Lew would write things that appeared in Ron's various newsletters," former AL editor Mike Holmes told reason. "Neither Ron nor Lew ever told me that, but other people close to them such as Murray Rothbard suggested that Lew was involved, and it was a common belief in libertarian circles."

Individualist-feminist Wendy McElroy, who on her blog characterized the author as an associate of hers for many years, called the ghostwriter's identity "an open secret within the circles in which I run." Though she declined to name names either on her blog or when contacted by reason, she later approvingly cited a post naming Rockwell at the anonymous blog RightWatch.

Timothy Wirkman Virkkala, formerly the managing editor of the libertarian magazine Liberty, told reason that the names behind the Political Report were widely known in his magazine's offices as well, because Liberty's late editor-in-chief, Bill Bradford, had discussed the newsletters with the principals, and then with his staff. "I understood that Burton S. Blumert was the moneybags that got all this started, that he was the publisher," Virkkala said. "Lew Rockwell, editor and chief writer; Jeff Tucker, assistant, probably a writer; Murray Rothbard, cheering from the sidelines, probably ghosting now and then."

599 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:41:57am

re: #267 Obdicut

Well, sure, the Obama is a Muslim story is obviously untrue, given the load of evidence to the contrary. This may or may not be true. But in the end, a dude is trying to sell a book on the subject and has only rumors to back it up, which makes me conclude the most logical explanation is he's trying to make a buck off of it, and probably really doesn't like Perry much, either.

My level of concern about whether Rick Perry had an affair is minimal.

If someone can prove it, or make him defend himself hard enough, it will affect the race.

Meh.

600 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:41:57am

re: #585 The Ghost of a Flea

On that, I think I know the outcome; they'll probably have the same group of Russian scientists who embalmed Il-song do their magic with Jong-il - and the North Korean propagandists will claim that the body doesn't decay is another sign of his divine nature.

Just you wait.

601 sagehen  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:42:35am

re: #592 lawhawk

This is about the only truly attractive menorah of public display size, but not for Hannukah.

the NYC one is by this artist:

[Link: www.google.com...]

602 Buck  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:42:42am

re: #517 sagehen

Now marines are getting the idea that hey, dream big, it can't hurt to ask. (although really, your commander-in-chief's wife might be pushing it a little).

It is actually a far right out-reach plan. I read JT's blog (Yes.... I read JT's blog) and the experience really changed him. and his attitude towards the Armed Forces.

One at a time the left is invited this way (they can't say no with out looking like an asshole), and are converted....

bwaaaa hahahaha


/just having fun... get over it.

603 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:43:10am

re: #598 Sergey Romanov

Some of the people cited in the reason article:

Hey! Reason isn't biased. They're completely non-partisan and independent thinking small "L" libertarians.

//

604 Steve  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:43:11am

I, for one could care less what Bobby Fisher said (years ago). He is totally irrelevant now.

605 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:43:49am

re: #603 Gus 802

Hey! Reason isn't biased. They're completely non-partisan and independent thinking small "L" libertarians.

//

Uh, that's relevant to what?

606 Kragar  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:43:49am

re: #597 ggt

Really?

why?

First I was like...

Image: DheerMaleKhajiit.jpg

Then I was like...

Image: werewolf-skyrim.jpg

607 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:44:17am

re: #604 Steve

I, for one could care less what Bobby Fisher said (years ago). He is totally irrelevant now.

I'm pretty sure the point is to note Ron Paul's attitude towards what he said.

608 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:44:42am

re: #605 Sergey Romanov

Uh, that's relevant to what?

They're "in the tank" for Paul.

609 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:44:59am

re: #552 NJDhockeyfan

Obama at 51% The Grinch at 49.2% and the Crazy Lady at 41.6%

610 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:45:41am

re: #608 Gus 802

They're "in the tank" for Paul.

Are there any other Liberatarian candidates? (even tho Paul is, technically, GOP)

611 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:46:02am

re: #610 ggt

Are there any other Liberatarian candidates? (even tho Paul is, technically, GOP)

Johnson?

612 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:46:23am

re: #573 Sergey Romanov

Well, is it all-or-nothing? Is it definitely all ghostwritten or all Paul? One of the sources saying Rockwell was the ghostwriter says:

"This was based on my understanding at the time that Lew would write things that appeared in Ron's various newsletters,"

That doesn't imply that he authored the entire contents of the newsletters.

Another interesting bit:

Eric Dondero, Paul's estranged former volunteer and personal aide, worked for Paul on and off between 1987 and 2004 (back when he was named "Eric Rittberg"), and since the Iraq war has become one of the congressman's most vociferous and notorious critics. By Dondero's account, Paul's inner circle learned between his congressional stints that "the wilder they got, the more bombastic they got with it, the more the checks came in. You think the newsletters were bad? The fundraising letters were just insane from that period." Cato Institute President Ed Crane told reason he recalls a conversation from some time in the late 1980s in which Paul claimed that his best source of congressional campaign donations was the mailing list for The Spotlight, the conspiracy-mongering, anti-Semitic tabloid run by the Holocaust denier Willis Carto until it folded in 2001.

That would heavily imply that Paul knew the content of the newsletters, making it very moot whether or not he wrote them.

Obama's speeches are partially written by other people. They're still Obama's speeches.

613 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:46:23am

re: #608 Gus 802

They're "in the tank" for Paul.

Sure, and we're in the tank against Paul. When it comes to actual sources, what does it matter?

614 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:46:31am

re: #610 ggt

Are there any other Liberatarian candidates? (even tho Paul is, technically, GOP)

Gary Johnson

615 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:47:08am

re: #614 Gus 802

Gary Johnson

Who?

616 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:47:36am

re: #615 ggt

Who?

Exactly.

617 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:47:37am

re: #615 ggt

Who?

Exactly.

618 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:47:45am

re: #612 Obdicut

Well, is it all-or-nothing? Is it definitely all ghostwritten or all Paul?

Who said that? I sure didn't in #168.

619 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:47:49am

re: #615 ggt

Who?

[Link: www.garyjohnson2012.com...]

620 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:48:27am

One second! (and I Previewed!)

621 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:48:27am

re: #619 Gus 802

[Link: www.garyjohnson2012.com...]

National Review thinks highly of him

/

622 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:48:45am

re: #290 palomino

I don't think Perry's gay. He's too stupid to be gay.

There's a test?

623 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:50:30am

re: #622 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a test?

He's too stoopid to lead a double life.

maybe.

624 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:50:38am

re: #621 ggt

National Review thinks highly of him

/

This comment was updinged by three New Mexicans. We know him best.

625 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:50:44am

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

Are there any songs the love of which proves straightness? //

Dan Savage actually talks about how his son loves metal, and how he feels about this about the same way he imagines his father felt when he found him high-kicking to Cabaret in his room.

626 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:50:59am

re: #618 Sergey Romanov

Who said that? I sure didn't in #168.

I wasn't saying you did, though. I was pointing out that a lot of the sources in the Reason article talk about 'the' ghostwriter, singular, as if there was or could only be one, or as if the existence of a ghostwriter means Paul didn't write any portion of the newsletters.

627 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:51:46am

re: #612 Obdicut

Also note that Rockwell is still a big friend of Paul, so big Paul doesn't want to name him as the chief ghostwriter. This alone is damning enough.

628 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:51:52am

re: #626 Obdicut

I wasn't saying you did, though. I was pointing out that a lot of the sources in the Reason article talk about 'the' ghostwriter, singular, as if there was or could only be one, or as if the existence of a ghostwriter means Paul didn't write any portion of the newsletters.

Does it really matter who wrote them, Paul put his name to them (therefore endorsing them).

629 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:51:55am

re: #598 Sergey Romanov

Every single one of the people quoted in the article is a Ron Paul supporter, with a vested interest in lying about it. I don't believe any of them.

The simplest explanation by far for these racist statements appearing in Ron Paul's newsletters for more than 10 years is: he wrote them.

And it does make a difference whether he actually wrote them or not -- he's using this claim to deflect attention away from himself.

630 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:52:09am

re: #626 Obdicut

That's the nature of human testimony.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:53:12am

re: #307 Obdicut

I still meet Queen fans who deny Mercury fucked dudes.

Most of the straight guys I know who have to grapple with that turn it into a badge of machismo. Dude was so on fire and amazing that he fucked EVERYONE!!

632 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:54:15am

re: #355 Sergey Romanov

Fischer was clearly a Christian.

He "joined the Worldwide Church of God in the mid-1960s. This church prescribed Saturday Sabbath, and forbade work (and competitive chess) on Sabbath. Fischer's religious obligations were respected by chess organizers, concerning scheduling of his games. Fischer contributed significant money over several years to the Worldwide Church of God."

Here is a picture of his tombstone with a big Christian cross on it.

633 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:54:36am

re: #627 Sergey Romanov

Also note that Rockwell is still a big friend of Paul, so big Paul doesn't want to name him as the chief ghostwriter. This alone is damning enough.

And Paul has defended the newsletters in the past, making his whole "Didn't know about them" schtick completely transparent.

634 Steve  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:54:59am

re: #607 JasonA

JasonA: For the sake of discussion only, Why does it really matter? Ron Paul is only going to help screw up the Republican (like they need help!) chances of winning the election. And the way I read the article is that Ron Paul is only pointing out that as soon as Spassky started to lose, the media ignored the chess match (Ron Pauls point of view). All this from a 1992 chess match?

635 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:55:16am

re: #631 SanFranciscoZionist

He's one of very few openly bi men, which is cool. That he was open about it, that is, not that there are few.

636 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:56:32am

re: #629 Charles

That some of them are supporters doesn't mean that they have a vested interest in lying specifically about Rockwell (still a friend of Paul), or that they somehow coordinated their lies to sound the same. Convergence of evidence dictates against there being a conspiracy of various libertarians to blame another libertarian for the sake of Paul. And at least one of the sources goes to 1988.

637 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:56:41am

re: #632 Lawrence Schmerel

Fishcer was clearly a Christian.

He "joined the Worldwide Church of God in the mid-1960s. This church prescribed Saturday Sabbath, and forbade work (and competitive chess) on Sabbath. Fischer's religious obligations were respected by chess organizers, concerning scheduling of his games. Fischer contributed significant money over several years to the Worldwide Church of God."

Here is a picture of his tombstone with a big Christian cross on it.

I heard that he once refused to reschedule a match with Samuel Rechevsky, an Orthodox Jewish grandmaster, and when Rechevsky didn't show up, declared himself the winner by default.

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:57:22am

re: #399 Gus 802

Fox and Sarah Palin Freak Over White House Christmas Card

Yes, instead of posing with the family dog, most Americans...

No, wait. Most Americans pose with the family dog. I've got like three different Christmas cards from family members, and they've all got at least one dog in there.

And then there's the mayor of San Juan, who's got a leopard and a gazelle.

639 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:58:11am

re: #404 Gus 802

Yo. Sawah! Here's the Christmas greeting card from the Bush White House in 2006:

Image: 4804.jpg

All I see is a bunch of snow and the White House.

He's putting his faith front and center. George Bush worships snow.

640 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:58:32am

re: #634 Steve

This is the important part:

It turns out that the brilliant Fischer, who has all the makings of an American hero, is very politically incorrect on Jewish questions, for which he will never be forgiven, even though he is a Jew. Thus we are not supposed to herald him as the world’s greatest chess player.

641 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:58:34am

re: #629 Charles

Every single one of the people quoted in the article is a Ron Paul supporter, with a vested interest in lying about it. I don't believe any of them.

The simplest explanation by far for these racist statements appearing in Ron Paul's newsletters for more than 10 years is: he wrote them.

And it does make a difference whether he actually wrote them or not -- he's using this claim to deflect attention away from himself.

It's damning any way one looks at it. If Paul wrote the bulk of the content in those newsletters, he's a racist and an anti-Semite; if someone like Lew Rockwell ghostwrote Paul's newsletters, published under Paul's name and with (at the very least) Paul's implicit approval, then Paul approves of racism and anti-Semitism being spouted in his name.

In short, Paul is a creepy, dangerous asshole that doesn't belong anywhere near the presidency (and, IMO, his House seat either).

642 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:59:20am

re: #355 Sergey Romanov

Also, that book he was discussing called "Nature's Eternal Religion" (which sounds rather post-Christian) was written by Ben Klassen, founder of the Church of the Creator.

643 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:59:21am

re: #641 talon_262

House seat (his son Rand is the US Senator).

644 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:59:28am

re: #641 talon_262

It's damning any way one looks at it. If Paul wrote the bulk of the content in those newsletters, he's a racist and an anti-Semite; if someone like Lew Rockwell ghostwrote Paul's newsletters, published under Paul's name and with (at the very least) Paul's implicit approval, then Paul approves of racism and anti-Semitism being spouted in his name.

In short, Paul is a creepy, dangerous asshole that doesn't belong anywhere near the presidency (and, IMO, his Senate seat either).

House, bro. House.

645 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:59:38am

re: #639 SanFranciscoZionist

He's putting his faith front and center. George Bush worships snow.

Happy Snowmass!

646 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 10:59:48am

re: #413 Gus 802

What a bunch of dips. Basically, Obama's card is not much different then tradition.

My cousin sent me a card with picture of him and his husband sitting out front of their farm, wearing Santa hats and each holding a beagle.

Looked pretty all-American to me. But Sarah would not like it that they are gay, I suppose.

647 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:00:28am

re: #646 SanFranciscoZionist

My cousin sent me a card with picture of him and his husband sitting out front of their farm, wearing Santa hats and each holding a beagle.

Looked pretty all-American to me. But Sarah would not like it that they are gay, I suppose.

Hm. Gays and beagles really do seem to go together...

648 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:00:54am

re: #642 Lawrence Schmerel

Yeah, I know. As to his Christianity, see my next comment to that - he was given a Catholic funeral. So he joined a Christian church, then became anti-Christian, then Christian again. What a nut.

649 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:01:07am

re: #643 lawhawk

re: #644 JasonA

Whoops.

It's corrected now. Paul just pisses me off, both of them. Rand may not be as slimy as his dad, but it's just because he hasn't been at the game as long. I have no doubt that the acorn didn't fall far from the tree.

650 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:02:31am

re: #477 Obdicut

Wow. Marines have balls.

[Video]Asked Michelle Obama to be his date for the Marine Corps Ball.

THat's getting to be a thing, Marines asking celebrities to go to the ball with them.

This is new, though.

She say yes?

651 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:02:50am

re: #645 Gus 802

Happy Snowmass!

Merry Christmas.

652 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:04:03am

re: #650 SanFranciscoZionist

THat's getting to be a thing, Marines asking celebrities to go to the ball with them.

This is new, though.

She say yes?

I think celebrities should invite Marines to attend Hollywood events. (Marines can feel free to decline if they think it's too tacky)

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:05:13am

re: #549 Alouette

Kim Jong-Il has abandoned his human shell, resumed his original form and returned to the Cockroach planet! And Arec Barwin is worfress!

Baldwin told an interviewer a few years back that all his daughter's friends know that song, and sing it at him.

654 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:05:13am

re: #648 Sergey Romanov

Yes. I also see that Ben Klassen's Church of the Creator was actually some kind of post-Christian antisemitic, racist cult.

655 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:05:15am
656 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:05:27am

Stores prepared to bypass Port of Oakland

There is a very dire warning today for the Port of Oakland from four major retailers. Target, Walgreens JC Penney and Crate and Barrel are telling port commissioners that they're prepared to completely bypass Oakland, if local authorities can't control the occupy situation. The retailers say they'll ship their goods into Los Angeles instead.

Currently 40 percent of their imports move through the Port of Oakland. The threat comes one week after an occupy protesters shut down the port for 24 hours.

657 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:06:02am

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

Baldwin told an interviewer a few years back that all his daughter's friends know that song, and sing it at him.

Hans Brix Blix said that he loved the scene of himself in the shark tank!

658 Gus  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:06:04am

re: #655 NJDhockeyfan

Merry Christmas!

For that I could very easily "find Jesus."

//

659 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:07:11am

re: #658 Gus 802

For that I could very easily "find Jesus."

//

You haven't been in the new churches, have you?

660 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:07:54am

re: #654 Lawrence Schmerel

Yes. I also see that Ben Klassen's Church of the Creator was actually some kind of post-Christian antisemitic, racist cult.

Yes, it is actually anti-Christian as well as antisemitic. I think it's actually atheistic.

661 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:08:32am

re: #660 Sergey Romanov

Yes, it is actually anti-Christian as well as antisemitic. I think it's actually atheistic.

Whoa now, don't be pushing that off on us!

662 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:08:46am

re: #650 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, conditional on asking her husband.

663 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:08:48am

re: #660 Sergey Romanov

Yes, it is actually anti-Christian as well as antisemitic. I think it's actually atheistic.

It's really Muslim!1!1!ty

664 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:09:21am

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, instead of posing with the family dog, most Americans...

No, wait. Most Americans pose with the family dog. I've got like three different Christmas cards from family members, and they've all got at least one dog in there.

And then there's the mayor of San Juan, who's got a leopard and a gazelle.

It's a beautiful card.

665 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:09:31am

re: #637 Alouette

I heard that he once refused to reschedule a match with Samuel Rechevsky, an Orthodox Jewish grandmaster, and when Rechevsky didn't show up, declared himself the winner by default.

I'm sure Rechevsky was devastated.

/

666 Steve  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:10:12am

re: #640 JasonA

I understand, but both (Paul and Fischer) are irrelevant. Fisher died in 2008 snd Paul is dying

And This from a Sept 1, 1992 Fischer press conference:

A memorable press conference
On 1 September 1992, Fischer gave his first press conference in 20 years. When asked about his reaction to the threats by Washington, Fischer took out a letter from the Treasury Department and spat on it.

He accused Kasparov and Karpov of playing "prearranged" matches, and accused Karpov and Korchnoi of the same. Spassky supported the opinion by pointing out the finish of the 19th game of the 1990 match in Lyon.

When asked about his reputation as an anti-Communist, Fischer said "Soviet Communism is basically a mask for Bolshevism which is a mask for Judaism." Asked later about his apparent anti-Semitism, he said, "I'm definitely not anti-Arab, OK?"

He accused the Soviets of keeping his royalties from his book "My 60 Memorable Games", and said that there would be no possibility of a match with Kasparov unless the royalties were paid.

667 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:10:33am

re: #646 SanFranciscoZionist

My cousin sent me a card with picture of him and his husband sitting out front of their farm, wearing Santa hats and each holding a beagle.

Looked pretty all-American to me. But Sarah would not like it that they are gay, I suppose.

Beagles!!!!!

:)

668 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:10:36am

re: #661 JasonA

Whoa now, don't be pushing that off on us!

Heh. See [Link: www.positiveatheism.org...]

669 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:10:52am

re: #666 Steve

Ron Paul is irrelevant? Really?

670 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:12:08am

re: #660 Sergey Romanov

Anyway, Fischer's story didn't end in that cult, but in Christianity, where his antisemitism began.

671 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:12:08am

re: #656 Killgore Trout

Stores prepared to bypass Port of Oakland

I thought LA was doing a close-down too. They couldn't pull it off?

672 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:12:59am

re: #657 Alouette

Hans Brix Blix said that he loved the scene of himself in the shark tank!

That scene makes me laugh like a hyena.

I don't want to like that stupid movie. It's racist, and disgusting, and makes no sense. But my God, parts of it are funny.

FUCK YOU, HANS BRIX!!!

673 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:13:27am

re: #670 Lawrence Schmerel

Anyway, Fischer's story didn't end in that cult, but in Christianity, where his antisemitism began.

Again, note that he was antisemitic before he was Christian. In 1979 he wrote that Christianity was a Jewish tool of world domination.

674 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:14:36am

re: #673 Sergey Romanov

Again, note that he was antisemitic before he was Christian. In 1979 he wrote that Christianity was a Jewish tool of world domination.

That sentence makes my head hurt.

675 Steve  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:14:47am

re: #669 JasonA

IMO.

676 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:15:21am

re: #673 Sergey Romanov

I don't think so. He joined the Worldwide Church of God in the mid-1960s, That is a Christian church.

677 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:15:33am

re: #670 Lawrence Schmerel

Fischer, whose mother was Jewish,[16][17][15][137] and whose probable biological father was also Jewish,[15] made numerous anti-Jewish statements and professed a general hatred for Jews since at least the early 1960s.[137][280] In 1961, he "made his first public statements despising Jews," according to FM Mike Klein.[281] Jan Hein Donner wrote that at the time of Bled 1961, "He idolized Hitler and read everything about him that he could lay his hands on. He also championed a brand of antisemitism that could only be thought up by a mind completely cut off from reality."[113] Donner writes that he took Fischer to a war museum, which "left a great impression, since he is not an evil person, and afterwards he was more restrained in his remarks—to me, at least."[113]

678 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:15:40am

re: #674 JasonA

That sentence makes my head hurt.

Temporal inversion.
My bad.

679 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:16:03am

re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought LA was doing a close-down too. They couldn't pull it off?

I think Oakland was the only significant port disruption. The rest were pretty minor. Unless the city steps up and takes control they could end up losing a lot of revenue.

680 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:16:07am

re: #674 JasonA

That sentence makes my head hurt.

It's a staple among anti-Christian antisemites (among neo-pagans and such).

681 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:16:45am

re: #680 Sergey Romanov

It's a staple among anti-Christian antisemits (among neo-pagans and such).

The Inquisition was a false flag operation!

682 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:16:45am

re: #676 Lawrence Schmerel

I don't think so. He joined the Worldwide Church of God in the mid-1960s, That is a Christian church.

See the wiki quote.

683 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:16:47am

re: #636 Sergey Romanov

That some of them are supporters doesn't mean that they have a vested interest in lying specifically about Rockwell (still a friend of Paul), or that they somehow coordinated their lies to sound the same. Convergence of evidence dictates against there being a conspiracy of various libertarians to blame another libertarian for the sake of Paul. And at least one of the sources goes to 1988.

I don't agree. It's not "some" of them -- all the people quoted claiming Rockwell wrote the newsletters are Ron Paul supporters, and it's published at a website that also openly supports Ron Paul.

I don't consider this evidence. It's not a conspiracy, either, it's advocacy. They have a very strong interest in deflecting attention away from the racist newsletters, and the "Lew Rockwell did it" claim has been their talking point for many years whenever the issue comes up.

684 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:17:04am

re: #680 Sergey Romanov

It's a staple among anti-Christian antisemites (among neo-pagans and such).

There should be a "We Hate Everybody" non-church. Would make things so much easier to keep straight.

685 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:17:32am

re: #677 Sergey Romanov

Exactly. Fischer made "numerous anti-Jewish statements and professed a general hatred for Jews since at least the early 1960s." That is when he was a Christian, not before.

686 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:17:37am

re: #681 JasonA

The Inquisition was a false flag operation!

Well, Torquemada was of partially Jewish descent, so this fact is used by them.

687 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:18:01am

re: #686 Sergey Romanov

Well, Torquemada was of partially Jewish descent, so this fact is used by them.

DON'T RUIN MY JOKES WITH FACTS!

688 Steve  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:18:36am

JasonA: Arrg. I am hving problems with my coputer hanging up. I am going to hutdown and try and fix this. It is really annoying when the whole thing hangs up while I am tping. Thanks for the conversation and Merry Christmas to you and everyone here!

689 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:18:47am

re: #636 Sergey Romanov

I don't understand why you're willing to take the word of Ron Paul supporters, but not that of Lew Rockwell -- who explicitly denied writing the newsletters. Why is his denial less credible than the claims of Ron Paul's supporters?

690 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:19:08am

re: #688 Steve

You too.

691 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:19:08am

re: #684 ggt

There should be a "We Hate Everybody" non-church. Would make things so much easier to keep straight.

That's the Westboro 'Baptists'.

692 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:20:50am

re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist

That's the Westboro 'Baptists'.

ah!

I forgot.

693 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:24:10am

Sergey Romanov is very busy today.

694 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:24:32am

re: #673 Sergey Romanov

Again, note that he was antisemitic before he was Christian. In 1979 he wrote that Christianity was a Jewish tool of world domination.

That must have been some meeting agenda in BC 34:

"Okay, boys, first we fake the coming of Mashiah...but then we denounce the fellow and let the Romans do what they do best. Then we convince the goyim--including the Romans--that he's the real thing, and they try and kill us for about two millenia...."

695 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:25:08am

re: #693 Lawrence Schmerel

Sergey Romanov is very busy today.

I gave him some clones of himself.

696 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:28:13am

re: #694 The Ghost of a Flea

Yes, that Jewish tool of world domination called Christianity worked so well for the Jewish people! It was truly a brilliant plan!

697 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:29:49am

Ex-Ron Paul Aide Disputes Paul on Newsletters

Did Ron Paul look Sean Hannity in the eye after the Sioux City debate on Fox News -- and play fast and loose with the facts of his newsletter?
In this video of Hannity interviewing Paul, at the 5:00 marker Hannity begins asking Paul about the newsletters. Paul flatly denies writing them. But never once mentions that he approved them. Instead, he directs Hannity to an article in the Texas Monthly that Paul says deals with the issue.

The Texas Monthly aricle requires registration for readers. But unfortunately for Mr. Paul, over at the site of the Capital Free Press (here) reporter Patrick McEwen registered and reports on what he found. And what he found directly contradicts what former aide Eric Dondero has said in The American Spectator. In the Texas Monthly, Paul steadfastly denies writing the newsletters. But never once hints that he personally approved them -- the charge Dondero is making.

Now, Dondero, in recent Comments posted (scroll down) on The American Spectator, challenges the truth of the notion that Congressman Paul somehow was unaware of the content of his controversial newsletters. He does confirm that Paul associates wrote the newsletters (including Lew Rockwell, the controversial ex-Paul chief of staff) but insists Paul himself was fully involved in the approval process. With Hannity sitting inches away on national television, Paul never admits that in fact he himself approved the newsletters… as Dondero now asserts… "every line of them."

...Says Dondero of the newsletter (full text below*), Ron Paul "did read them, every line of them, off his fax machine at his Clute office before they were published. He would typically sign them at the bottom of the last page giving his okay, and refax them to Jean to go to the printer." There is not a word of this in the Texas Monthly article that Paul uses to deflect Hannity.

698 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:32:01am

re: #683 Charles

I haven't actually checked whether every single one of them is a supporter, and this evidence is not in the article itself, so I'll go with "some" to be safe. Even if every single one of them is a supporter, this doesn't matter much to me because I don't see the assumption that all these people simply lie about another prominent libertarian (who happens to still be a friend of Paul and a big wig in the lib movement) just because they have a vested interest (that interest being merely their support of Paul) as plausible. So on that we will have to agree to disagree. And again, this information was circulating long before even the shit hit the fan, as the reference to a 1988 publication shows.

PS: to any outside readers jumping into this mid-way, I will reiterate that for me this is a merely academic question. No matter how many, if any, words Paul had written for his newsletter, it was still his, bore his name, and it's unreasonable to suppose he didn't know about its contents. Moreover, he still associates with the people who wrote much of the offending content, if we're to believe all the libertarian activists quoted in the Reason article. So these newsletters still disqualify Paul from whatever significant office he might wish to hold.

699 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:33:55am

re: #689 Charles

I don't understand why you're willing to take the word of Ron Paul supporters, but not that of Lew Rockwell -- who explicitly denied writing the newsletters. Why is his denial less credible than the claims of Ron Paul's supporters?

For the same reason you don't take Ron Paul's denials seriously, or the same reason a testimony of an accused is never equal to a testimony of an witness against that accused: because these witnesses have no vested interest to blame specifically Rockwell, but he has vested interest not to admit this.

700 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:36:45am

re: #697 NJDhockeyfan

Yay, another witness.

701 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:38:41am

re: #685 Lawrence Schmerel

Exactly. Fischer made "numerous anti-Jewish statements and professed a general hatred for Jews since at least the early 1960s" That is when he was a Christian, not before.

You said he joined the church in mid-1960s, while he was publicly antisemitic since at least 1961. You don't see the contradiction?

702 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:39:10am

re: #693 Lawrence Schmerel

Sergey Romanov is very busy today.

Whatever is that supposed to mean?

703 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:41:20am

re: #702 Sergey Romanov

I was looking for your response to what I posted. I saw that Charles was also looking for a response from you. I realized you were busy.

704 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:42:10am

re: #703 Lawrence Schmerel

I think I responded to everyone now.

705 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:48:02am

re: #683 Charles

Thanks to NJDH above for providing a hostile witness - Eric Dondero hates Paul's guts, yet he writes:

[Link: spectator.org...]

Eric Dondero| 12.18.11 @ 8:24AM

Lew Rockwell and Jeff Tucker wrote the Newsletters (with major input from Murray Rothbard and Marc Thornton). Jean McCiver edited them for clarity and grammar out of the Houston office on Nasa Blvd. Ron was merely a figurhead.

But he did read them, every line of them, off his fax machine at his Clute office before they were published. He would typically sign them at the bottom of the last page giving his okay, and re-fax them to Jean to go to the printer.

Eric Dondero, Personal Asst./Travel Aide
Ron Paul, Libertarian for President, 1987/88
Crdtr. Ron Paul for President Exploratory Comm. 1991
Campaign Coordinator, Ron Paul for Congress, 1995/96
Senior Aide, US Cong. Ron Paul, 1997-2003

706 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:49:00am

Also, from the same link:

Eric Dondero| 12.18.11 @ 8:30AM

This is correct. Ron did not "write" the Newsletters. He did however, have to approve every single line in the Newsletters before they were published. He was a very dedicated editor with the red marking pen. I can remember numerous occasions when he called Lew and Jeff Tucker to castigate them for bad grammar or badly written sentences.

It is correct to say Ron Paul was not the "writer," of the Newsletters, but that's kind of mis-leading. He was most certainly the editor-in-chief emphasis on chief.

707 S'latch  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:51:36am

re: #701 Sergey Romanov

You are correct. I don't know if Fischer was Christian, or belonged to another church, before he joined that church in the mid-60s. But, he was antisemitic before he joined that particular church in the mid-60s. And, his antisemitic views continued for the rest of his life.

708 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 11:55:00am

And another:

Eric Dondero| 12.18.11 @ 8:56AM

One other note before I sign off. Many here in the comments section have called Ron Paul, an "anti-Semite." I wouldn't use that phrase exactly. I worked for the guy for 12 years, and never once heard an anti-Semitic word come out of his mouth. He has absolutely no problem with Jewish Americans.

However, he is most certainly Anti-Israel. He wishes Israel did not exist at all. He told me so numerous times. His basic view is that the Israeli State is much more trouble than it's worth, and costs the American taxpayer way too much money; better to hand it over to the Arabs he said to me on numerous occasions.

Ron also care not one wit about protecting Western civilization. He is an isolationist in the truest form. Protecting France, the UK, Germany, Italy, Greece from Islamist immigrants and worse, Islamic terrorists, is not at all on his radar screen.

Finally, let me clear one thing up for the record. Ron Paul did NOT want to vote for the intervention in Afghanistan after 9/11. He sided with our Legislative Director Joe Becker (a self-described Anarchist) and Paleo-Conservative Norm Singleton, then Legislative Asst. in opposing any sort of strike against Al Qaeda.

It was only the threat from half of his staff at the time, including myself, and our District Director Jackie Gloor, to publicly resign if he did not vote for the Afghanistan bill, plus his wife Carol and almost his entire family (INCLUDING HIS SON RAND PAUL), haranguing him to change his position, that finally convinced him to vote for the bill. And he only made that decision on the very final day, in the very final hours, causing us staffers incredible anxiety and angst.

Eric Dondero, Senior District Aide
US Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX)
1997-2003

709 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:11:00pm

re: #699 Sergey Romanov

For the same reason you don't take Ron Paul's denials seriously, or the same reason a testimony of an accused is never equal to a testimony of an witness against that accused: because these witnesses have no vested interest to blame specifically Rockwell...

Yes, they do. Lew Rockwell is an overt racist of the neo-Confederate variety, so he's a very convenient fall guy. He's known for writing and saying things like this, so they picked him because it would seem plausible.

710 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:13:47pm

re: #709 Charles

We could debate this further, but I believe Dondero's statement in addition to the ones already cited settles it.

711 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:18:38pm

re: #710 Sergey Romanov

We could debate this further, but I believe Dondero's statement in addition to the ones already cited settles it.

Again, I don't agree at all. I just checked out Dondero's website and it's not accurate at all to say that he "hates Ron Paul's guts." In fact I found several posts defending Ron Paul there -- along with some criticism, mostly of his foreign policy ideas.

As I said above, these talking points have been well-rehearsed among Paul's supporters for many years. I think what actually "settles" this matter is the reference to an ob-gyn journal. That is just not something a ghostwriter would do -- it's a direct connection to Ron Paul.

712 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:20:16pm

re: #706 Sergey Romanov

Saying someone is merely a figurehead, and then saying that they edited them closely, is kind of contradictory. Which he realizes.

I think we're getting a little caught up on the 'write' part. If he exercised red-pen editorial control, then that makes writing them besides the point.

713 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:27:37pm

re: #711 Charles

He certainly is his political opponent, and not a supporter:

Eric Dondero| 12.18.11 @ 8:48AM

You make the assumption that only "conservatives," oppose Ron Paul. We libertarians oppose him, as well. Ron Paul sees no threat from Islamism. We libertarians care about our sexual liberties. We don't want our wives/girlfriends to be forced to wear ugly black burqas from head to toe. Call us crazy, and yes a little "libertine," but we like our American woman to be buxom, vivacious, and outgoing in their sexuality.

Ron Paul could care less about protecting sexual liberties. And he could care less about the Islamist agenda of outlawing booze, gambling, free speech rights, and basically anything in life that's fun.

He's a 50%-er freedom supporter. He's 100% right on economics. 100% wrong on foreign policy.

Moreover, these comments are very damning to Paul and are obviously made with this in mind, i.e. to harm Paul. So he is absolutely a hostile witness, whether he literally hates his guts or not.

Despite anti-Paul bias, the part about ghostwriters can be believed safely, because otherwise Dondero could have simply written that Paul wrote it all himself, and that would hurt him even more.

So both friendly and hostile witnesses agree: Paul did not write much of the newsletter.

I don't believe the ob-gyn reference settles anything, because a ghostwriter will surely imitate the one who they're ghosting for. Moreover, this reference might have been inserted during the editing stage (the one described by Dondero). And moreover, if it would prove anything, it's the authorship of the anti-abortion note, not of the whole newsletter.

714 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:29:21pm

re: #710 Sergey Romanov

We could debate this further, but I believe Dondero's statement in addition to the ones already cited settles it.

re: #711 Charles

Again, I don't agree at all. I just checked out Dondero's website and it's not accurate at all to say that he "hates Ron Paul's guts." In fact I found several posts defending Ron Paul there -- along with some criticism, mostly of his foreign policy ideas.

As I said above, these talking points have been well-rehearsed among Paul's supporters for many years. I think what actually "settles" this matter is the reference to an ob-gyn journal. That is just not something a ghostwriter would do -- it's a direct connection to Ron Paul.

Sergey, I'd be more inclined to side with Charles on this one. Most people wouldn't have had access to a medical journal such as Contemporary OB/GYN, especially back in 1992 when the only way to view them was in dead-tree format with a pricey subscription, much less know what to look for.

If Paul didn't write the stuff in his newsletter, he sure as hell knew where to get "supporting material" if other people were ghostwriting for him; that, to me, makes it six of one, half-dozen of the other.

In any case, Paul's culpable and responsible for the content of his newsletters.

715 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:29:29pm

re: #712 Obdicut

Saying someone is merely a figurehead, and then saying that they edited them closely, is kind of contradictory. Which he realizes.

I don't see the contradiction. From the context it's clear that Paul was a byline. A figurehead in this sense.

I think we're getting a little caught up on the 'write' part. If he exercised red-pen editorial control, then that makes writing them besides the point.

It's not besides the point if the very question is whether he wrote them. Otherwise, I already said that it's besides the point, with editing or not.

716 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:29:57pm

re: #714 talon_262

See #713.

717 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:31:57pm

re: #715 Sergey Romanov

I don't see the contradiction. From the context it's clear that Paul was a byline. A figurehead in this sense.

A figurehead is someone who contributes nothing, which contradicts the heavy editorial control.

It's not besides the point if the very question is whether he wrote them. Otherwise, I already said that it's besides the point, with editing or not.

But even if there was a, or multiple, ghostwriters, are any of the people claiming that Paul never wrote for the newsletter?

718 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:34:26pm

re: #714 talon_262

Also, as I explained in an even earlier comment, when you see in some kook's publication a reference to a specialist journal, you can't assume they've actually read it, rather than took it from another kooky tract. Creationists and Holocaust deniers often do this. If you see in a Jack Chick tract a reference to a Journal of Paleontology, I guarantee Chick hasn't actually read it and it's not correct to argue that the author of the tract is a paleontologist.

The match is significant because Paul is an ob-gyn himself. However it's just that, significant. It doesn't settle the issue. The friendly and hostile testimonies cited in this thread conclusively show that the newsletters were ghostwritten with Paul's editorial control (and maybe some writing input, which cannot be excluded)

719 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:36:37pm

re: #717 Obdicut

A figurehead is someone who contributes nothing, which contradicts the heavy editorial control.

No, that's an absolutist understanding. I don't know why you insist on it. Someone who contributes 5% but his name is always on it is still a figurehead.

But even if there was a, or multiple, ghostwriters, are any of the people claiming that Paul never wrote for the newsletter?

But that's not what is being discussed.

720 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:42:32pm

re: #719 Sergey Romanov

No, that's an absolutist understanding. I don't know why you insist on it. Someone who contributes 5% but his name is always on it is still a figurehead.

I'm sorry, but figurehead is an absolutist idiom. It really is. Furthermore, it implies that person isn't really in charge, isn't actually calling the shots, and so it's another misuse of the phrase. It means the person doesn't have actual authority. Nobody is actually claiming Paul lacked authority over the newsletter, from what I can see. Simple delegating authority and responsibility doesn't make you a figurehead.

If you're going to insist on semantic correctness for 'write', then you should hold the same standard for 'figurehead', right?

But that's not what is being discussed.

So if the word 'some' was in there-- that Paul wrote some of the content of the newsletters-- you wouldn't have a problem?

721 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:44:11pm

re: #714 talon_262

re: #711 Charles

Sergey, I'd be more inclined to side with Charles on this one. Most people wouldn't have had access to a medical journal such as Contemporary OB/GYN, especially back in 1992 when the only way to view them was in dead-tree format with a pricey subscription, much less know what to look for.

Exactly. This conclusively proves that Ron Paul wrote at least this entry in his newsletter. It's possible that other entries were ghostwritten, but I don't consider any of what I've seen so far to be proof of that, because all the people making the claim have a vested interest in obfuscating the issue.

If you look through more editions of the newsletter, Ron Paul even signed his name after some of these articles.

722 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:45:15pm

re: #721 Charles

I'd say it's likely a lot of it was ghostwritten because that's pretty much standard for politicians.

723 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:49:40pm

re: #720 Obdicut

Furthermore, it implies that person isn't really in charge, isn't actually calling the shots, and so it's another misuse of the phrase.

If the only issue you have with it is semantic, it's a rather irrelevant thing to bring up. I understood perfectly what Dondero was trying to say. It doesn't concern me if he didn't use one word completely perfectly. He obviously doesn't try to excuse Paul, quite the contrary. That's the only thing that matters.

So if the word 'some' was in there-- that Paul wrote some of the content of the newsletters-- you wouldn't have a problem?

Um. After reading my comments in this thread, you should know better than to bring this up for a second time already. Because I was saying from the start that Paul might have been partially involved in the writing process.

724 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:50:42pm

re: #721 Charles

because all the people making the claim have a vested interest in obfuscating the issue.

Dondero doesn't.

725 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:51:26pm

re: #716 Sergey Romanov

See #713.

And you see my second paragraph; back in '92, the [Link: WWW...] in its infancy and most professional journals, such as Contemporary OB/GYN, weren't online for all to be able to access; someone would have had to have subscribed to a physical subscription and know what to look for.

Now, it is possible that whoever wrote that Paul article didn't really read the journal article before they cited it but, regardless of who wrote the article, the fact that it was cited at all tells me that either Paul wrote the piece himself or gave info to whoever did, which points to some sort of editorial control. I don't buy the argument that if it was a ghostwriter with this particular article of Paul's, they'd know what medical journals to look through for info to make it look like Paul; professional journals are often very arcane and very specific.

The long and short is that Paul was and is responsible for the content of his newsletters, no matter who wrote the articles; whatever Dondero's beef is with Paul is irrelevant to that.

726 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:52:56pm

re: #723 Sergey Romanov

If the only issue you have with it is semantic, it's a rather irrelevant thing to bring up.

I'm pointing out the contradiction in Dondero's statements. In one, he claims Paul was a heavily involved editor, in the other that he just read and signed them. Do you not see a contradiction in those two version of events?

727 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:55:12pm

re: #724 Sergey Romanov

Dondero doesn't.

Yes, he does. See: Libertarian Republican: Ron Paul hits Gingrich: Global Warming, Freddie Mac

Ron Paul disclaimer: This website agrees with Ron Paul wholeheartedly on economic issues. We vehemently disagree with his foreign policy.

This is not someone who's strictly a "political opponent." It's a libertarian who definitely has a vested interest in whitewashing Paul's racist history, because it reflects badly on all libertarians.

728 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:55:48pm

re: #725 talon_262

You ignored my response to your "rarity" argument. The journal is rare. But the wingnut anti-abortionist magazines and newspapers and newsletters from where this bit might have been cribbed were not rare. That's the usual m.o. of anti-abortionists and assorted kooks - most of them don't go to primary sources. They incestuously cite other kooks.

Or Paul might have inserted it as an editor. Or he might have written the whole anti-ab article. It doesn't show that he actually wrote all of his newsletter or didn't employ ghostwriters.

729 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:59:13pm

re: #727 Charles

Yes, Dondero is Paul's political opponent and he writes as much himself in the comment I posted. Moreover, he and Paul are personal opponents too, which you can find by googling. Paul calls him a disgruntled former aide with a grudge.

Dondero is not whitewashing Paul's racist history. Quite the contrary. His comment is damning to Paul because it puts the whole moral and editorial responsibility for the racist newsletter on Paul. Intendendly so.

730 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 12:59:15pm

re: #726 Obdicut

I'm pointing out the contradiction in Dondero's statements. In one, he claims Paul was a heavily involved editor, in the other that he just read and signed them. Do you not see a contradiction in those two version of events?

So, Dondero is most likely a lying tool, trying to make Paul look bad; this means exactly what for the germane argument at hand? Paul's done plenty to make himself look bad; whatever's spewing out of Dondero's piehole doesn't change that one iota.

731 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:00:44pm

re: #730 talon_262

The relevance is that it corroborates the friendly and neutral testimonies that the newsletter has been ghostwritten. If Dondero lies, he doesn't lie in this part, because it would be easier for him to say that Paul actually wrote all this stuff by himself.

732 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:01:31pm

re: #730 talon_262

There's not a ton of difference between Dondero's statements, but it does seem like he's altering them intentionally for effect.

733 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:08:06pm

re: #728 Sergey Romanov

You ignored my response to your "rarity" argument. The journal is rare. But the wingnut anti-abortionist magazines and newspapers and newsletters from where this bit might have been cribbed were not rare. That's the usual m.o. of anti-abortionists and assorted kooks - most of them don't go to primary sources. They incestuously cite other kooks.

Or Paul might have inserted it as an editor. Or he might have written the whole anti-ab article. It doesn't show that he actually wrote all of his newsletter or didn't employ ghostwriters.

Even if someone ghostwrote Paul's articles and picked up the Contemporary OB/GYN article reference from another kook rag (which I still highly doubt, since it is very specific to Paul's vocation), Paul was and is still responsible for the content of the newsletters that were printed with his imprimatur.

734 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:08:23pm

re: #726 Obdicut

I'm pointing out the contradiction in Dondero's statements. In one, he claims Paul was a heavily involved editor, in the other that he just read and signed them. Do you not see a contradiction in those two version of events?

OK, now I appreciate the force of your point more. It is possible that he is gilding the lily. However, if he were outright lying, the path of least resistance is to say that Ron Paul wrote everything himself. (Especially if that were true.) Which is why, when taking everything else into account, I see this comment as the deciding one.

735 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:09:00pm

re: #733 talon_262

Even if someone ghostwrote Paul's articles and picked up the Contemporary OB/GYN article reference from another kook rag (which I still highly doubt, since it is very specific to Paul's vocation), Paul was and is still responsible for newsletters that were printed with his imprimatur.

I'm not sure why you're saying this to me. I've been writing this same thing since #168.

736 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:11:54pm

re: #734 Sergey Romanov

I'm not making the argument that Paul wrote everything himself, though. To me, common knowledge is that politicians of his stripe normally have ghostwriters-- or, mostly, open collaborators. I'm saying that the testimonies of these various people are not worth much, and are inconsistent with each other. I'm also saying that if someone edits something heavily, one can be said to have at least rewritten it.

737 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:12:38pm

re: #733 talon_262

And I repeated it in #698, in the post scriptum.

738 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:15:25pm

re: #736 Obdicut

Well, we don't know about the editing "heavily" part (acc. to Dondero he mostly was pissed off about grammar), but then, I'm also not arguing that Paul had no writing input whatsoever. He probably did. We just don't know how much. That he exercised full editorial control is enough for the political point to be made.

739 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:22:24pm

re: #735 Sergey Romanov

I'm not sure why you're saying this to me. I've been writing this same thing since #168.

My fault then, as I more or less speed read the thread, being at work right now.

re: #738 Sergey Romanov

Well, we don't know about the editing "heavily" part (acc. to Dondero he mostly was pissed off about grammar), but then, I'm also not arguing that Paul had no writing input whatsoever. He probably did. We just don't know how much. That he exercised full editorial control is enough for the political point to be made.

Which is all that I was trying to say, though I still think that odds are better than most that Paul either wrote some or all of that piece with the Contemporary OB/GYN citation in it, simply because of the specificity of it.

740 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:24:36pm

re: #739 talon_262

OK, no problem.

When I'm arguing a "theoretical" point about a bad guy, it doesn't mean I'm trying to excuse the bad guy. I just don't reiterate it in each comment. Perhaps I should ;)

741 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:25:16pm

re: #740 Sergey Romanov

OK, no problem.

When I'm arguing a "theoretical" point about a bad guy, it doesn't mean I'm trying to excuse the bad guy. I just don't reiterate it in each comment. Perhaps I should ;)

Nah, I'm good ;-P

742 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:28:32pm

re: #729 Sergey Romanov

Yes, Dondero is Paul's political opponent and he writes as much himself in the comment I posted. Moreover, he and Paul are personal opponents too, which you can find by googling. Paul calls him a disgruntled former aide with a grudge.

Dondero is not whitewashing Paul's racist history. Quite the contrary. His comment is damning to Paul because it puts the whole moral and editorial responsibility for the racist newsletter on Paul. Intendendly so.

If he's a "disgruntled former aide with a grudge," why do you believe that what he says is credible? I maintain that he still has a very strong motive to dissemble on this issue, because he was involved with Ron Paul while it was going on.

743 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:51:19pm

re: #742 Charles

If he's a "disgruntled former aide with a grudge," why do you believe that what he says is credible?

Let's look at 2 cases.

1. Paul did write most or all of the newsletter.

In such a case a disgruntled former aide who is out to get Paul would not hesitate to say so.

He didn't write this, so this case should be discarded, especially in the light of other witness statements.

2. Paul didn't write most of the letter.

In such a case a disgruntled former aide who is out to get Paul has 2 choices. To say that Paul wrote most of the letter. Or to say that the letter was ghostwritten (and maybe to add something about full editorial control).

If Dondero claimed that Paul did write most of the letter, this could be explained away as a lie by a hostile witness.

However, Dondero didn't say that Paul wrote most of the letter, so he didn't follow the easiest path for a lying hostile witness.

Since he didn't follow the easiest path for a lying hostile witness, I see no reason not to trust his description of the ghostwriting. Especially as this part is also corroborated by (what seem to be) non-hostile testimonies.

He also wrote about the editorial full control. Can this part be trusted? I tend to trust this part even from a hostile witness, because it makes sense; however it is possible that he lied here. Since I'm defending the ghostwriting thesis, this part is irrelevant to me - even if he lied about this, above I have show that he didn't lie about the first part, and he could have, to more effect at that.

Analyzing witness testimonies is not a black-or-white issue. Witnesses will often tell small lies which don't necessarily detract from the core of their testimonies. So in regard to Dondero I can say that I trust the ghostwriting path of his testimony because that's not what I would expect from a lying hostile witness. The rest of his claims are more shaky, but make sense.

I maintain that he still has a very strong motive to dissemble on this issue, because he was involved with Ron Paul while it was going on.

But he came to the thread on his own (to condemn Paul, that much is clear). He could have simply avoided saying anything, and his involvement wouldn't be the issue at all (like it wasn't in all the preceding years). Now it's a big story in several places (incl. the Spectator itself).

Moreover, it doesn't make a difference for this position whether Paul wrote it himself, or whether he approved every line of his ghostwriters. He is still responsible. So by stating what he stated Dondero does not diminish whatever responsibility he himself has. Therefore it cannot be a motive for dissembling.

744 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:58:38pm

Or shorter #743, for those who don't want to read it: because his claim about ghostwriting doesn't fit a template for a lying hostile witness, since the lie is more effective with him saying that Paul wrote it all.

745 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:58:45pm

re: #743 Sergey Romanov

Moreover, it doesn't make a difference for this position whether Paul wrote it himself, or whether he approved every line of his ghostwriters. He is still responsible. So by stating what he stated Dondero does not diminish whatever responsibility he himself has. Therefore it cannot be a motive for dissembling.

Sure it can. If people buy the deflections and evasions about the newsletters, the issue will stop there; no one will be looking into it any further. But if the deflections don't work, and this becomes a real factor in Ron Paul's campaign, the media will investigate and suddenly Dondero and everyone else who worked for Paul during that time will be under suspicion.

That's a motive for dissembling.

746 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:59:22pm

re: #743 Sergey Romanov

Wouldn't that provide a recipe for any hostile lying witness to be believed though-- just make up something that's slightly less-damning, and then have people say "Well, he could have claimed something worse, therefore it must be true"?

747 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 1:59:28pm

And who knows? There could be more stuff like this that these people are trying to keep from coming out.

748 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:00:31pm

re: #747 Charles

Heh. Maybe one of the ghostwriters was someone worse than Lew Rockwell.

Though it's hard to think of who that would be.

749 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:01:55pm

re: #746 Obdicut

Wouldn't that provide a recipe for any hostile lying witness to be believed though-- just make up something that's slightly less-damning, and then have people say "Well, he could have claimed something worse, therefore it must be true"?

Sorry, but what is Dondero lying about, then? Is he not telling the truth (that Paul wrote the newsletter) in order to make people believe that Paul did bear full responsibility for it?

750 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:02:18pm

re: #748 Obdicut

I'm thinking of more racist connections, not necessarily the newsletters. But someone who promoted the ugly racist crap that's in these letters almost certainly had more connections to the white supremacist underworld.

751 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:03:18pm

re: #745 Charles

Sure it can. If people buy the deflections and evasions about the newsletters, the issue will stop there; no one will be looking into it any further. But if the deflections don't work, and this becomes a real factor in Ron Paul's campaign, the media will investigate and suddenly Dondero and everyone else who worked for Paul during that time will be under suspicion.

That's a motive for dissembling.

Then, very simply, he could have said that Paul wrote it all and it would stop right there.

752 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:11:28pm

re: #749 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, but what is Dondero lying about, then? Is he not telling the truth (that Paul wrote the newsletter) in order to make people believe that Paul did bear full responsibility for it?

I'm not saying Dondero is or isn't lying about anything. Maybe he wrote some of the newsletters, maybe Ron Paul really did write them and to Dondero that is actually a positive thing and so he's trying to take credit away from him. I don't know. I don't care how much of the newsletters Ron Paul wrote, since he bears responsibility for the contents and he defended the contents.

I'm pointing out that if you use the logic "This hostile witness is not telling the worst story he could, therefore the story must be true because if he were lying he'd tell the worst version" seems like an argument rife for abuse.

753 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:33:56pm

re: #751 Sergey Romanov

Then, very simply, he could have said that Paul wrote it all and it would stop right there.

Not at all! That's the opposite of what would happen.

If he said Paul wrote all of it, that would absolutely guarantee the story would get bigger, and he'd be in the news himself, with a lot of journalists checking his claims.

754 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 2:55:39pm

re: #752 Obdicut

It's not quite like that. Note that assumption 1 - that Paul wrote most or all - is discarded by a different standard ("In such a case a disgruntled former aide who is out to get Paul would not hesitate to say so."). So basically "my" thesis wins there and then.

But Charles asked specifically about why I'm trusting anything by a hostile witness, and under assumption 2 I'm trying to explore other options Dondero might have used. Under assumption 2 he would either lie blatantly (about Paul writing everything) or would tell the truth and optionally add some lies to it. He didn't lie blatantly, and we've already rejected ass. 1, so the assumption that is left is the assumption 2b - he told the truth about the core, but may have lied about the editorial control (though it's unlikely).

PS: "I'm not saying Dondero is or isn't lying about anything. Maybe he wrote some of the newsletters" - there is actually no claim by anyone that Dondero wrote anything in the newsletters. This thread is confusing enough as it is.

755 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 3:05:18pm

re: #753 Charles

Not at all! That's the opposite of what would happen.

If he said Paul wrote all of it, that would absolutely guarantee the story would get bigger, and he'd be in the news himself, with a lot of journalists checking his claims.

Actually, the story would get bigger anyhow. We know this both because it just did get bigger from his comments alone, and because there is no actual political difference between penning each word and holding full editorial control over each word. So the risk of journalists checking his claims is the same in both cases. He is a witness for prosecution in any case, so if Paul's racism is besmirching his former aides (and if that was on Dondero's mind), Dondero has just testified against himself.

756 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:51:24pm

re: #228 Decatur Deb

Yom Kippur geld. Easter presents.

'Morning, all. Happy Hannukah, and for you Druids: "Let's keep the Sol in Solstice".

BTW? Awesome.

757 Jerk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 8:58:46pm

re: #721 Charles

Just want to say that Charles is right on the money. Anyone with a little bit of knowledge on how the medical publishing industry operates would tell you that these kinds of journals just don't end up at your local library. They're written for doctors.

758 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:01:27pm

re: #757 Jerk

Just want to say that Charles is right on the money. Anyone with a little bit of knowledge on how the medical publishing industry operates would tell you that these kinds of journals just don't end up at your local library. They're written for doctors.

Reading the primary source is not the only way to get such a reference. See #168, #718.

759 Jerk  Wed, Dec 21, 2011 9:34:00pm

You're talking about something that is possible, but not probable.


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