Gingrich Approves of South Carolina's Decision To Fly Confederate Flag At Capital

Gingrich Approves of South Carolina’s Decision To Fly Confederate Flag At Capital

But don’t worry - he’s ‘opposed to slavery’

WingnutsDecember 2011 • Views: 43,678

It’s no longer surprising to hear Republican candidates like Newt Gingrich openly endorsing a “state’s right” to fly the Confederate flag — the symbol of slavery, sedition, and a war that nearly destroyed the United States.

And in the same breath, Gingrich says he’s “unalterably opposed to slavery.” Well, isn’t that nice.

Youtube Video

At an event in South Carolina yesterday, Newt Gingrich was asked by a town hall participant to offer his views regarding the state’s decision to fly the Confederate flag at the statehouse in Columbia. The woman’s question was met with a smattering of boos from the audience.

“I have a very strong opinion,” Gingrich said, prefacing his weak response. “It’s up to the people of South Carolina.” (He then qualified his answer by assuring that he is opposed to segregation and slavery.)

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136 comments

theheat Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:25:49am

Gingrich has covered nearly all the squares on the uberdouche bingo card just by being himself. It isn't like he had to work at it or anything. He's a natural.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:26:51am

*Just stopped self from Godwinning the thread.*

jaunte Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:28:39am

"As a matter of personal, deeply felt feeling, I want all these Tenthers in the audience to vote for me."

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:29:20am

It's one thing for an individual to wish to display a symbol that is synonymous with a noxious practice, tradition, or institution.

It's your right to be a jerk or an idiot.

It's another thing for a state to do it, because a state is a collection of individuals, some of whom you are grotesquely insulting and forcing to live under a symbol that represents their enslavement and oppression.

Yes, that's right. The Oregon Ducks really want that beaver OFF the Oregon state flag.

[Link: www.50states.com...]

Kronocide Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:29:50am

The obvious fact is he felt the need to say he did not support segregation or slavery, after saying he supports people who want to fly a flag that symbolizes segregation and slavery.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:35:42am

Yes, why don't we fly the flag of an enemy nation that no longer exists?

dragonfire1981 Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:35:54am

I saw a confederate flag t-shirt in TN that read "if you think this is a symbol of hate you don't understand history."

Obdicut Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:36:52am

re: #7 dragonfire1981

I saw a confederate flag t-shirt in TN that read "if you think this is a symbol of hate you don't understand history."

I wouldn't say it's a symbol of hate, but I would say it's a symbol of the history of a bunch of states that seceded in order to preserve the right to enslave other human beings.

So, not really much better.

I think I understand history okay.

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:38:48am

re: #7 dragonfire1981

I saw a confederate flag t-shirt in TN that read "if you think this is a symbol of hate you don't understand history."

More like a symbol of failed treason.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:39:48am

Mexico is another country that lost a war against the United States. Most of Texas used to be Mexico. So I guess nobody will object when Mexican flags show up here and there in Texas. Right?

wrenchwench Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:43:06am

re: #10 negativ

Mexico is another country that lost a war against the United States. Most of Texas used to be Mexico. So I guess nobody will object when Mexican flags show up here and there in Texas. Right?

Well, I think you can count on Chunkymonkey to object.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:44:49am

re: #10 negativ

Mexico is another country that lost a war against the United States. Most of Texas used to be Mexico. So I guess nobody will object when Mexican flags show up here and there in Texas. Right?

When Texans count the countries they have been part of, they count the confederacy.

I object on account of the confederacy not having achieved the status of nation.

jaunte Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:45:45am

re: #12 EmmmieG

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Kronocide Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:46:37am

The Stars and Bars represented a group of states the tried to secede but failed. Some still haven't gotten over it.

But those who object to the Stars and Bars are the whiners.

Right.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:47:57am

I submit that any state that wants to fly the confederate flag at their capitol be allowed to do so, just as long as they fly this flag above it.
/

Lidane Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:48:29am

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes, why don't we fly the flag of an enemy nation that no longer exists?

It's a symbol of American history and pride.

Why do you hate America?

wilburs Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:49:45am

“I have a very strong opinion,” Gingrich said, prefacing his weak response.

LOL

wrenchwench Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:50:39am

I just watched the video, twice.

I think Gingrich said that South Carolina should be able to decide about their flag, just as they should have been able to decide about their slaves, if it hadn't been for that war. Even though his deeply felt personal feeling is that he is opposed to slavery, segregation, and all those things.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:51:31am

Oh dear.

We have a crisis.

We're out of bacon.

Also, I think I forgot to get enough batteries.

Both of these are required for Christmas morning.

See you all later.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:52:14am

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

Fly the Confederate flag next to the official state flag, as long as they are separated by a flag bearing the motto, "I'm with stupid" and an arrow pointing towards the Confederate flag.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:53:49am

Dear Confederate Flag Wavers,

You lost. Suck it up, bitches.

Sincerely,

The Nation That Kicked Your Sorry Asses Out of Existence

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:54:10am

re: #10 negativ

Mexico is another country that lost a war against the United States. Most of Texas used to be Mexico. So I guess nobody will object when Mexican flags show up here and there in Texas. Right?

I would like to point out that we now have cordial diplomatic relations with Mexico. Not so much the CSA.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:57:14am

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

I submit that any state that wants to fly the confederate flag at their capitol be allowed to do so, just as long as they fly this flag above it.
/

Hey! The Bear Flag Republic was a very legitimate expression of freedom! And taking shit away from the Californios! That lasted nearly a month, before the Army showed up and said 'No.'!

Decatur Deb Sat, Dec 24, 2011 11:59:03am

re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth

Dear Confederate Flag Wavers,

You lost. Suck it up, bitches.

Sincerely,

The Nation That Kicked Your Sorry Asses Out of Existence

Nope. CSA=SEC.

The Ghost of a Flea Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:00:10pm

So what does it communicate that they fly the Confederate Battle Flag rather than any of the three national flags the CSA used?

PS: the Stars and Bars is this

The battle flag (red field, blue Andrew's cross, white stars) is what's raised in South Carolina.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:01:16pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

SEC?

Decatur Deb Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:02:19pm

re: #26 Slumbering Behemoth

SEC?

SouthEastern Conference, bluebelly.

PhillyPretzel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:03:38pm

Decatur I thought it was the Securities and Exchange Commission.

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:03:57pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

Nope. CSA=SEC.

Now I understand how they get away with so much on Wallstreet. They're trying to refight the war by causing economic meltdown! ///

makeitstop Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:04:08pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

I submit that any state that wants to fly the confederate flag at their capitol be allowed to do so, just as long as they fly this flag above it.
/

Is that an unusually obtuse Dead Kennedys ref? If so, well done.

Decatur Deb Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:05:05pm

re: #28 PhillyPretzel

Decatur I thought it was the Securities and Exchange Commission.

'Bama doesn't play well in that league.

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:05:25pm

Nothing strange about this, coming from people who claim to want to dismantle the federal government and turn the United States into the North American States.

Screw this e pluribus unum stuff. Who needs Latin these days anyway?/

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:05:35pm

re: #30 makeitstop

Is that an unusually obtuse Dead Kennedys ref? If so, well done.

California Uber Alles? Well, Governor Brown is back again... :eek:

nines09 Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:07:59pm

How Newtie. Gingrich attacks Va. for keeping him off ballot

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:09:00pm

re: #30 makeitstop

Nah, nothing so clever as that. I just figured that any state wanting to fly the Confederate would naturally have an unfounded revulsion for anything CA related, and might rethink the whole thing.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:10:24pm

:( Dark Falcon is missing all the confederate bashing fun.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:10:55pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

:( Dark Falcon is missing all the confederate bashing fun.

Yeah, well, he's got stuff to do. As opposed to me. I'm editing.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:12:21pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I need to get cracking myself. What's the song DF always posts when CSA related stuff pops up?

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:14:28pm

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, I need to get cracking myself. What's the song DF always posts when CSA related stuff pops up?

Marching Though Georgia. I like the Tennessee Ernie Ford version on You-tube myself.

Youtube Video

Olsonist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:14:49pm

Gingrich is opposed to segregation and slavery. He's just in favor of celebrating segregation and slavery.

Got it.

As for Virginia, isn't it up to the people of Virginia?

Kronocide Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:15:43pm

Happy Birthday to Jesus

Full Metal Jacket

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:19:48pm

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, I need to get cracking myself. What's the song DF always posts when CSA related stuff pops up?

Marching through Georgia. I'll do it for him:

Youtube Video

Mattand Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:23:04pm

There's people in NJ who actually refer to the Civil War as "The War of Northern Aggression."

Yes, they do watch Fox News. How'd you know?

I have yet to meet somebody anywhere who displays that flag and doesn't have some ignorant racist viewpoint.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:27:23pm

re: #43 mattand

There's people in NJ who actually refer to the Civil War as "The War of Northern Aggression."

Yes, they do watch Fox News. How'd you know?

I have yet to meet somebody anywhere who displays that flag and doesn't have some ignorant racist viewpoint.

Have you mentioned to these people that they're the aggressing Northerners?

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:27:43pm

Newt has more than a passing interest in this. He wrote a whole series of alternate histories of the Civil War:

*Spoilers alert, in the unlikely event any of you want to rush out and buy Newt's books*

Gettysburg: A Novel of the Civil War

The story takes place in 1863 when Robert E. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia are victorious at the Battle of Gettysburg instead of the United States. .... Losing Gettysburg is a grave setback to the United States, but it by no means spells the end of the war or determines its outcome, and the United States still has a lot of fight in it.
In this, the book takes an opposing view to the classic "Bring the Jubilee" published in 1953 - precisely fifty years before the present book - which assumes that a defeat in Gettysburg would have led to a complete defeat and catastrophic collapse of the North.

Grant Comes East

The book picks up where the first left off at the Confederate victory at Gettysburg. General Robert E. Lee and his troops march on Washington, D.C., and launch an assault, hoping that if they can take the capital they can win the war.
[more maneuvering, with the inept General Dan Sickles appointed to command the Army of the Potomac, with Grant as supreme commander.]
The Army of the Potomac is destroyed in a rout, with Sickles losing a leg in the process (as he did in the real Battle of Gettysburg). The battle pens Lee up in Maryland, however, leaving Virginia wide open as Grant and William T. Sherman converge on it via Pennsylvania and Georgia. The novel ends with Lee scrambling to meet Grant's threat.

Never Call Retreat: Lee and Grant: The Final Victory
This is too involved for the full synopsis here but ends with the final showdown between Lee and Grant, and, as in the real world, the defeat of the Confederacy.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:30:23pm

Meanwhile, California politicians were shooting re: #45 Shiplord Kirel

Newt has more than a passing interest in this. He wrote a whole series of alternate histories of the Civil War:

*Spoilers alert, in the unlikely event any of you want to rush out and buy Newt's books*

Gettysburg: A Novel of the Civil War

Grant Comes East

Never Call Retreat: Lee and Grant: The Final Victory
This is too involved for the full synopsis here but ends with the final showdown between Lee and Grant, and, as in the real world, the defeat of the Confederacy.

"Bring The Jubilee" is excellent altfic. Also, it's science fiction, and not much obsessed with battleground details. Is Newt's stuff readable?

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:32:53pm

Note how Newt couches his opposition to slavery and segregation in terms of "personal feeling," as though different choices by other people would be equally acceptable.

wilburs Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:34:04pm

re: #34 nines09

How Newtie. Gingrich attacks Va. for keeping him off ballot

Yes, the irony of a voter suppression advocate complaining that following the rules is too hard, and anyway, they shouldn't apply to him.

Mattand Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:34:40pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

It's so fucked up. The people in question are immediate relatives of a friend of ous. They have family from the Deep South and some have only been here for a generation, if that. Couple that with the whole states' rights horse shit, and you've got the perfect brew for cognitive dissonance.

I read an actual Civil War history book a few years back, written by an actual accredited historian. Kind of refreshing to see someone who knew what they were talking about unequivocally state the Civil War was about slavery.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:35:16pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Is Newt's stuff readable?

Only if your mind is capable of grasping his literary grandeur. Now that Kim Jong Il is dead, Newt Gingrich is most luminous being ever to set ink to paper, and we are fortunate that he was magnanimous enough to share a little piece of himself in ways that we can at least aspire to understand.

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:37:59pm

As always, I must recommend a great collection of short fiction, now out of print but available through Amazon, called "The Fantastic Civil War". All sorts of science fiction and fantasy based on the war. Everything from an encounter in the woods where a young man is offered the chance to trade his soul for a Confederate victory to a time-travelling attache to General Grant who manages to take the Wright Brother's plane out of the Smithsonian and into combat. (They leave the later stuff. It looks too hard to figure out on short notice.)

It includes "Bring The Jubilee", and a very good time-travel piece called "The Chronicle of the 656th" that's just really well done.

Amory Blaine Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:41:33pm

Kneel before Zod!!!

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:41:50pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Meanwhile, California politicians were shooting

"Bring The Jubilee" is excellent altfic. Also, it's science fiction, and not much obsessed with battleground details. Is Newt's stuff readable?

I haven't read them, despite an obsessive interest in altfic. Bring the Jubilee still sets the standard as far as I'm concerned, my great admiration for Harry Turtledove not withstanding. Ward Moore was quite a character in his own right.

jaunte Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:43:19pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks for the recommendation; just managed to snag one of the used versions for a penny.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 12:54:14pm

Lunch at Costco.

I think they made the Starbucks Hot Cocoa too watery. I'm an expert on hot cocoa.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:03:04pm

I reached "that point" today. It happens every Christmas.

Standing in line at Costco with four pounds of bacon (don't worry, I have sons), 72 batteries, a danish thingy that for our own safety we'll be eating in small pieces, and having just passed through stacks and stacks of...stuff...I looked up on the wall and there' s a giant sign saying "There's more! Costco.com."

Because there might just be a place in your house that is empty. Because you might have 1.5% less crap than your neighbors.
Because you might have to delay gratification a day or two.
Because you might have a desire that is not currently filled.

More stuff. You must have more stuff. If this gigantic warehouse (which was the biggest Costco in the world when it was built) doesn't have enough stuff, we sell more online.

This is not an anti-Costco screed. It's an anti-buying-crap screed. I actually like Costco, and not just because they feed me. I reached "that point."

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:06:13pm

"I'm an historian! Listen to me!" = I like to write fantasy books about the South winning Gettysburg

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:06:48pm

re: #57 SpaceJesus

"I'm an historian! Listen to me!" = I like to write fantasy books about the South winning Gettysburg

Did they get the shoes, then, after all?

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:08:12pm

What are you guys getting me for my birthday?

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:08:23pm

re: #55 EmmmieG

Lunch at Costco.

I'm still pissed about them switching off Hebrew Nationals.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:09:33pm

re: #59 SpaceJesus

Got a few nails, and a bit of wood. I'll figure something out.
///
_{Bad Behemoth!}

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:10:40pm

I meant a samples lunch.

Life is like a samples lunch at Costco. You never know what you're gonna get.

makeitstop Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:13:47pm

re: #59 SpaceJesus

What are you guys getting me for my birthday?

Chinese food!
/

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:15:20pm

re: #59 SpaceJesus

What are you guys getting me for my birthday?

I actually have a box with frankincense and myrrh in it. Makes a great object lesson.

Obdicut Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:15:58pm

re: #63 makeitstop

Chinese food!
/

And a movie!

Feline Fearless Leader Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:16:10pm

re: #56 EmmmieG

I reached "that point" today. It happens every Christmas.

Standing in line at Costco with four pounds of bacon (don't worry, I have sons), 72 batteries, a danish thingy that for our own safety we'll be eating in small pieces, and having just passed through stacks and stacks of...stuff...I looked up on the wall and there' s a giant sign saying "There's more! Costco.com."

Because there might just be a place in your house that is empty. Because you might have 1.5% less crap than your neighbors.
Because you might have to delay gratification a day or two.
Because you might have a desire that is not currently filled.

More stuff. You must have more stuff. If this gigantic warehouse (which was the biggest Costco in the world when it was built) doesn't have enough stuff, we sell more online.

This is not an anti-Costco screed. It's an anti-buying-crap screed. I actually like Costco, and not just because they feed me. I reached "that point."

Four pounds of back bacon.
Three French Toast
Two Turtlenecks.
And a beer... in a tree.

Merry Christmas you hosers!

;)

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:18:27pm

re: #64 EmmmieG

What is myrhh anyway

Fart Knocker Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:18:37pm

re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm still pissed about them switching off Hebrew Nationals.

That's just not kosher.

PhillyPretzel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:19:13pm

re: #59 SpaceJesus
You get one free spin of the dreidel. :)

Fart Knocker Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:19:44pm

re: #66 oaktree

Four pounds of back bacon.
Three French Toast
Two Turtlenecks.
And a beer... in a tree.

Merry Christmas you hosers!

;)

Loved that album!!!

TedStriker Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:20:04pm

re: #66 oaktree

Four pounds of back bacon.
Three French Toast
Two Turtlenecks.
And a beer... in a tree.

Merry Christmas you hosers!

;)

Youtube Video

PhillyPretzel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:21:34pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus
myrhh [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

TedStriker Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:23:08pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

What is myrhh anyway

Myrrh (pronounced /ˈmɜr/) is the aromatic oleoresin of a number of small, thorny tree species of the genus Commiphora, which grow in dry, stony soil.[1] An oleoresin is a natural blend of an essential oil and a resin. Myrrh resin is a natural gum.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:24:49pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

What is myrhh anyway

It's an aromatic resin. Christian tradition is that since myrrh was sometimes used in burials, it was symbolic of Christ's death. It was really expensive back then, sometimes costing more per pound than gold.

Verse from We Three Kings:

Myrrh is mine, its bitter perfume
Breathes a life a gathering gloom
Sorrowing, sighing, bleeding, dying
Sealed in the stone-cold tomb

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:26:18pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

hm. interesting. my new apartment has a room in it which smells strongly of cat litter from the previous tenant. will myrhh get that out? can one still buy it?

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:26:55pm

re: #68 rwdflynavy

They switched out to their store brand. While it's not bad, it is no where near the level of quality the Hebrew National dogs were.

PhillyPretzel Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:27:47pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus
Try one of these. They smell great. [Link: www.yankeecandle.com...]

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:27:50pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

hm. interesting. my new apartment has a room in it which smells strongly of cat litter from the previous tenant. will myrhh get that out? can one still buy it?

Yes, you can, but I would suggest Febreze.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:28:04pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

hm. interesting. my new apartment has a room in it which smells strongly of cat litter from the previous tenant. will myrhh get that out? can one still buy it?

They didn't replace the carpet and the padding, did they? That's what pet deposits are supposed to pay for.

TedStriker Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:28:22pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

hm. interesting. my new apartment has a room in it which smells strongly of cat litter from the previous tenant. will myrhh get that out? can one still buy it?

Hit that with some Febreze...

TedStriker Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:29:39pm

re: #78 EmmmieG

Yes, you can, but I would suggest Febreze.

Jinx.

;-P

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:30:06pm

re: #80 talon_262

With animal urine, especially nasty ass cats, you gotta tear out the carpet, padding, etc., basically down to bare cement, and put in new stuff.

allegro Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:31:22pm

re: #77 PhillyPretzel

Try one of these. They smell great. [Link: www.yankeecandle.com...]

Yankee candles are the dirtiest burning candles. Great if you like waxy soot all over the walls, floors, and furniture.

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:33:18pm

Right Newt. You support flying the Confederate flag but modify that stance to include that you're opposed to segregation and slavery. Essentially admitting that the Confederacy and the Confederate flag represent segregation and slavery. And then bringing up the 10th Amendment which is effectively the dog whistle for "state rights" and given the context put you smack dab in the middle of now running a Southern strategy campaign?

wilburs Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:34:29pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

hm. interesting. my new apartment has a room in it which smells strongly of cat litter from the previous tenant. will myrhh get that out? can one still buy it?

Get one of those oil burning candle things. Add a bunch of fresh orange zest to the oil and let marinate a few days before you light it, It will be pretty potent. You can also add vanilla extract to the oil as well if you don't like orange.

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:34:51pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

no carpet, it's cement floors. i mopped with amonia and soap but it just comes back

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:35:45pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

no carpet, it's cement floors. i mopped with amonia and soap but it just comes back

Now that is truly odd. You must have one sensitive sniffer.

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:36:05pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

yeah, this smell is unstoppable. candles just mask it.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:36:50pm

re: #88 SpaceJesus

yeah, this smell is unstoppable. candles just mask it.

Get a black light and see if you can find something you are missing.

makeitstop Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:38:12pm

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

Now that is truly odd. You must have one sensitive sniffer.

Or the previous tenants had a cat with a nasty urinary tract.

engineer cat Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:39:25pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

What is myrhh anyway

they used it in the religious school i went to and in the cathedral of st john the divine

the frankincense and myrhh come in the form of resin and a small block of charcoal must be ignited under them in order for them to burn

they smell is of course perfume like and pleasing but faintly sour

allegro Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:39:47pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

no carpet, it's cement floors. i mopped with amonia and soap but it just comes back

Ammonia will just make it worse. Just found these suggestions:

Vinegar and Baking Soda - First soak up as much of the urine as you can, then soak the area with a mixture of 1/3 cup of white vinegar with 2/3 cup of water and a little soap. With a clean rag, soak up any excess liquid pressing firmly and repeatedly until dry. Repeat this process using fresh water, and then use another rag to soak up the remaining liquid. After this, sprinkle some baking soda on the area and vaccuum up in 24 hours.

Peroxide - Some people claim peroxide works well in cleaning up cat urine and stains, though this can be tricky on surfaces which might discolor easily. Supposedly, peroxide breaks down the components in the cat urine which cause stains and odor. Pour a small amount directly on the area and allow to dry. Then rinse with warm water and soak up with a rag or paper towel.

Listerine Mouthwash - A number of people claim this helps eliminate cat urine odors when a few drops are added to your water & vinegar solution, or when mixed with a peroxide solution. It can also be mixed with just hot water and dabbed on the area. Most likely this is because of the amount of alcohol in Listerine.

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:40:20pm

Vinegar is typically advised.

engineer cat Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:41:25pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

no carpet, it's cement floors. i mopped with amonia and soap but it just comes back

hire some two pack a day smokers and let them live in the room for a year

SpaceJesus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:41:38pm

re: #92 allegro

vinegar and baking soda? never would have thought of that. ill have to give it a shot. peroxide sounds like going nuclear. thanks

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:42:12pm

re: #95 SpaceJesus

vinegar and baking soda? never would have thought of that. ill have to give it a shot. peroxide sounds like going nuclear. thanks

It's cat pee. You may need to go nuclear.

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:43:28pm

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

I submit that any state that wants to fly the confederate flag at their capitol be allowed to do so, just as long as they fly this flag above it.
/

No.
Image: 4166_NCR_Wallpaper_normal.jpg

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:46:17pm

re: #97 Varek Raith

No.
Image: 4166_NCR_Wallpaper_normal.jpg

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:49:28pm

re: #98 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...

I thought the same thing playing NV.

100

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:51:31pm

In case you or your children are bored right now:

[Link: www.noradsanta.org...]

101

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 1:56:34pm

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much

In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany’s big three car companies—BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagen—are very profitable.

How can that be? The question is explored in a new article from Remapping Debate, a public policy e-journal. Its author, Kevin C. Brown, writes that “the salient difference is that, in Germany, the automakers operate within an environment that precludes a race to the bottom; in the U.S., they operate within an environment that encourages such a race.”

Continues.

102

allegro Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:00:56pm

re: #101 Gus 802

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much

But, but American EXCEPTIONALISM! 11ty!!

103

engineer cat Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:01:33pm

re: #101 Gus 802

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much

it is not possible to know this because germany is a socialist hellhole that will surely collapse in chaos by 1992 at the latest

104

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:02:33pm

re: #101 Gus 802

and their cars are better, of course

105

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:02:42pm

re: #102 allegro

But, but American EXCEPTIONALISM! 11ty!!

Yeah. Looks somewhat complicated given that the German car companies are opposed to unionization in US built facilities. What's embarrassing though is the stark numbers. Germany building twice as many cars for twice the wage rate.

106

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:03:56pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Yeah. Looks somewhat complicated given that the German car companies are opposed to unionization in US built facilities. What's embarrassing though is the stark numbers. Germany building twice as many cars for twice the wage rate.

And just twice as many cars, but cars that are superior in quality and reliability compared to US automakers.

107

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:04:05pm

re: #104 WindUpBird

and their cars are better, of course

Definitely. American cars are still mostly plastic junk that float when you drive. I thought for a while there that they changed but they haven't. Basically when you buy a Ford or a Chevy it's sort of like getting a bicycle from Montgomery Wards. ;)

108

Firstinla Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:04:09pm

re: #96 EmmmieG

It's cat pee. You may need to go nuclear.

He myrhh-myrhh'd in her ear: No, we cannot get a cat.

109

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:04:30pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Yeah. Looks somewhat complicated given that the German car companies are opposed to unionization in US built facilities. What's embarrassing though is the stark numbers. Germany building twice as many cars for twice the wage rate.

well, of course! They're taking advantage of us! :D because America's fucked, yay

110

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:04:59pm

re: #106 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And just twice as many cars, but cars that are superior in quality and reliability compared to US automakers.

it's why I drive a VW

111

engineer cat Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:05:32pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Definitely. American cars are still mostly plastic junk that float when you drive. I thought for a while there that they changed but they haven't. Basically when you buy a Ford or a Chevy it's sort of like getting a bicycle from Montgomery Wards. ;)

i do dislike the sensation of driving a barcalounger

112

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:05:45pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

well, of course! They're taking advantage of us! :D because America's fucked, yay

Yep. What do you expect from a country that wants to compete with China. That's what it boils down to. Plus we're busy saving the universe from the invading Chinese hoards. ;)

113

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:05:47pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Definitely. American cars are still mostly plastic junk that float when you drive. I thought for a while there that they changed but they haven't. Basically when you buy a Ford or a Chevy it's sort of like getting a bicycle from Montgomery Wards. ;)

Ouch!
:)

114

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:06:19pm

re: #103 engineer dog

it is not possible to know this because germany is a socialist hellhole that will surely collapse in chaos by 1992 at the latest

RONALD REAGAN, TEAR DOWN THIS METAPHOR

115

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:06:43pm

re: #112 Gus 802

Yep. What do you expect from a country that wants to compete with China. That's what it boils down to. Plus we're busy saving the universe from the invading Chines hoards. ;)

And fighting the War on Christmas against godless heathens!

116

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:07:16pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

Ouch!
:)

I want a GM product, it's called a Pontiac g8 GXP

too bad it's manufactured and designed in Australia, by Holden

117

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:07:26pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

RONALD REAGAN, TEAR DOWN THIS METAPHOR

Youtube Video

118

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:07:46pm

re: #115 Varek Raith

And fighting the War on Christmas against godless heathens!

Or litigating against gay marriage. Or flying Confederate flags. Important shit like that.

119

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:09:59pm

re: #118 Gus 802

Or litigating against gay marriage. Or flying Confederate flags. Important shit like that.

YEE HAH

120

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:10:43pm

It's not just quality or reliability, either, it's also innovation. Europeans have embraced environmentalism, have embraced economy and practicality, and done so without sacrificing power or luxury. They've been running turbodiesels on ultralow-sulfur diesel for years, and yet it's just now showing up here in the states. You want to see oil usage in this nation drop? Take half the cars off the road now and replace them with ones running turbodiesel engines.

121

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:13:29pm

Bench seats. LOL For a time there it seemed like American cars were being made to carry two 350 pound people on the front seat. Oversized ugly looking pieces of junk that couldn't hold the road. Basically made for driving down a freeway.

122

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:17:27pm

re: #120 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not just quality or reliability, either, it's also innovation. Europeans have embraced environmentalism, have embraced economy and practicality, and done so without sacrificing power or luxury. They've been running turbodiesels on ultralow-sulfur diesel for years, and yet it's just now showing up here in the states. You want to see oil usage in this nation drop? Take half the cars off the road now and replace them with ones running turbodiesel engines.

I would add they've embraced technology and especially design. Most particularly aesthetics design. They wrote the book on it and the remaining American car manufacturers are still trying to copy it. We also can't forget the leadership from Japan in the auto industry. Part of the problem was due to a conservative attitude regarding auto design in the USA that lasted well into the 1980s. Bigger was always seen as better. Resistance to safety and environmental features. The car wasn't designed for driving but more like an air conditioned buffet serving fried chicken and salad in a Texas eatery.

123

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:20:02pm

re: #122 Gus 802

I would add they've embraced technology and especially design. Most particularly aesthetics design. They wrote the book on it and the remaining American car manufacturers are still trying to copy it. We also can't forget the leadership from Japan in the auto industry. Part of the problem was due to a conservative attitude regarding auto design in the USA that lasted well into the 1980s. Bigger was always seen as better. Resistance to safety and environmental features. The car wasn't designed for driving but more like an air conditioned buffet serving fried chicken and salad in a Texas eatery.

Indeed, even in the 70's and early 80's, when environmentalism really began to come into vogue as an answer to the oil crises and emerging public acknowledgment of serious pollution problems, Detroit's answer was generally middling to poor, putting out small cars that were generally crap, and then declaring their failure "proof" that what Americans wanted were big hunking pieces of iron with V8s and lots of chrome.

124

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:21:27pm

re: #123 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Indeed, even in the 70's and early 80's, when environmentalism really began to come into vogue as an answer to the oil crises and emerging public acknowledgment of serious pollution problems, Detroit's answer was generally middling to poor, putting out small cars that were generally crap, and then declaring their failure "proof" that what Americans wanted were big hunking pieces of iron with V8s and lots of chrome.

Oh God. Like the Ford Pinto and Chevy Vega. Or the AMC Gremlin. Complete and utter junk. It was like the leisure suit of car design.

125

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:25:23pm

re: #124 Gus 802

Oh God. Like the Ford Pinto and Chevy Vega. Or the AMC Gremlin. Complete and utter junk. It was like the leisure suit of car design.

Yep, the Big 3 thought such small cars wouldn't go anywhere, that when oil prices came down again and Americans got over their fear of future crises, big iron would reign supreme again. Japanese and German small cars weren't much better, especially to begin with. But the difference is that they put money and effort into improving, learning from their mistakes, and producing a better product. Detroit just kept warming up the same leftovers, changing a few bits here and there, and marketing them as "this year's model."

126

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:30:38pm

re: #125 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep, the Big 3 thought such small cars wouldn't go anywhere, that when oil prices came down again and Americans got over their fear of future crises, big iron would reign supreme again. Japanese and German small cars weren't much better, especially to begin with. But the difference is that they put money and effort into improving, learning from their mistakes, and producing a better product. Detroit just kept warming up the same leftovers, changing a few bits here and there, and marketing them as "this year's model."

Most of the time they just updated the grill area. Which already looked like a post WWII suburban bi-level. Some of it reminds me of a cheap McMansion home design where they paste on a lot of different design elements.

And the funny thing about this is that the American aircraft industry was always at or ahead of the curve in both aesthetics and technology. The auto industry was severely behind on all counts for many years.

127

jvic Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:34:12pm

1. IMO Gingrich didn't defend the decision; he defended SC's right to make the decision. He should have left it at that: see wrenchwench's #18. Better, he should replaced his statement with something like My opinion about that is that the decision is up to the people of South Carolina. Excise the statements about slavery and segregation, and that's pretty much what he said.

2. Someone who favors federal action that forbids flying the Confederate flag should be very wary lest the precedent and enforcement apparatus be distorted beyond their original purpose. Someone who favors federal action that forbids flying the flag should be very wary that the precedent and enforcement apparatus could be used against them if the national balance of power shifts.

3. What makes the point not cut and dried is that SC--the first state to secede from the Union and, so I understand, the state that started the war by firing on Fort Sumter--is, per #25, flying the battle flag of a rebellion. Therefore, despite misgivings, I could not object to a federal injunction against SC: which is not to say that I favor one.

4. Surely there is another way to honor the valor of Confederate soldiers.

5. A smattering of groans followed the question. I wonder if the questioner is a Rovian or Democrat provocateuse.

128

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:36:18pm

re: #126 Gus 802

Most of the time they just updated the grill area. Which already looked like a post WWII suburban bi-level. Some of it reminds me of a cheap McMansion home design where they paste on a lot of different design elements.

And the funny thing about this is that the American aircraft industry was always at or ahead of the curve in both aesthetics and technology. The auto industry was severely behind on all counts for many years.

But speaking of the aircraft industry, you look at Detroit in the late 40s-early 60s, you see so much innovation and radical thinking. Stream-lining, gas turbines, automatic transmissions, cars styled like fighter jets. You had automakers looking at the future, predicting cars with computer guidance, automatic drive, even atomic engines.

Now? All the innovation's left for the car shows, while the things gracing the showroom are last year's model with a few styling changes and a new color interior.

129

jvic Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:37:05pm

re: #102 allegro

But, but American EXCEPTIONALISM! 11ty!!

American exceptionalism, when it exists, is a process toward an idea(l). It is not a permanent credential that was handed to us in 1789.

130

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:38:22pm

re: #128 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

But speaking of the aircraft industry, you look at Detroit in the late 40s-early 60s, you see so much innovation and radical thinking. Stream-lining, gas turbines, automatic transmissions, cars styled like fighter jets. You had automakers looking at the future, predicting cars with computer guidance, automatic drive, even atomic engines.

Now? All the innovation's left for the car shows, while the things gracing the showroom are last year's model with a few styling changes and a new color interior.

Well, we know what killed design to a great extent. It was called the 1970s. Take for example the Corvette which signified a pinnacle in automobiles design all around the world. As soon as the 70s came the Corvette design turned to shit. As did the Mustang.

131

Gus Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:39:00pm

Even architecture during the 70s basically sucked. Really goofy chit.

132

Targetpractice Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:41:58pm

re: #130 Gus 802

Well, we know what killed design to a great extent. It was called the 1970s. Take for example the Corvette which signified a pinnacle in automobiles design all around the world. As soon as the 70s came the Corvette design turned to shit. As did the Mustang.

True, but a lot of it also really comes down to the whole "American Exceptionalism" slamming into a pole and throwing the public through the plate glass windshield. Nader and Unsafe At Any Speed, the twin oil crises, and just the general end of the idea that we could meet every obstacle with a "can-do" attitude and girding our loins.

133

wrenchwench Sat, Dec 24, 2011 2:53:16pm

re: #127 jvic

1. IMO Gingrich didn't defend the decision; he defended SC's right to make the decision. He should have left it at that: see wrenchwench's #18. Better, he should replaced his statement with something like My opinion about that is that the decision is up to the people of South Carolina. Excise the statements about slavery and segregation, and that's pretty much what he said.

2. Someone who favors federal action that forbids flying the Confederate flag should be very wary lest the precedent and enforcement apparatus be distorted beyond their original purpose. Someone who favors federal action that forbids flying the flag should be very wary that the precedent and enforcement apparatus could be used against them if the national balance of power shifts.

3. What makes the point not cut and dried is that SC--the first state to secede from the Union and, so I understand, the state that started the war by firing on Fort Sumter--is, per #25, flying the battle flag of a rebellion. Therefore, despite misgivings, I could not object to a federal injunction against SC: which is not to say that I favor one.

4. Surely there is another way to honor the valor of Confederate soldiers.

5. A smattering of groans followed the question. I wonder if the questioner is a Rovian or Democrat provocateuse.

1. The question was wide open. He could have said, "I don't like it, but it is SC's decision to make." And he could have said, "I don't like it because it represents things I am unalterably opposed to, like slavery and segregation." Why didn't he say that? Because he's pandering to the bigots who groaned at the question and applauded his answer.

2. Nobody was talking about Federal injunctions, were they?

3. OK, you are.

4. I don't think the point is to honor anyone. It is to heap dishonor on the descendants of slaves, and anyone who looks like they might be such.

5. I'm sure the questioner is accustomed to that kind of response from people who attend rallies for the likes of Gingrich. Is she a provocateuse if she wants to get Gingrich on record regarding that flag?

134

jvic Sat, Dec 24, 2011 4:16:34pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

4. I don't think the point is to honor anyone. It is to heap dishonor on the descendants of slaves, and anyone who looks like they might be such.

As a long-term resident of New England whose parents are Central European refugees, I don't claim to understand the issue in depth. My overall attitude has been influenced by Jim Webb's Born Fighting and by speeches like this one.

5. I'm sure the questioner is accustomed to that kind of response from people who attend rallies for the likes of Gingrich. Is she a provocateuse if she wants to get Gingrich on record regarding that flag?

I know nothing about her; I don't know whether she is an agent provocateur or not. Given that this is a high-stakes national campaign and given the sleazy incidents in recent SC GOP politics, I don't dismiss the possibility out of hand.

135

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sun, Dec 25, 2011 11:35:15am

Dumb, stupid conservative Confederates.

136

SidewaysQuark Sun, Dec 25, 2011 11:59:45am

All racism and whatever else aside, I don't get why people on the wrong side of a thorough ass-kicking would want to take pride in a flag that was never used outside that period. If I was from Michigan or Ohio, I sure wouldn't want a bumper sticker that read "Proud Home of General Custer" or "Sons of Little Bighorn Veterans".

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