Stormfront Founder Says White Supremacists Thought Ron Paul Was ‘One of Us’

There’s a reason why Ron Paul is the favorite politician of the racist subculture

Don Black, head racist of the hate site Stormfront, makes it clear that for many years Ron Paul appealed directly to the white supremacist subculture: Stormfront Founder Don Black Says White Supremacists Thought Ron Paul Was ‘One of Us’.

Ron Paul posing with Don & Derek Black at the 2007 Values Voter debateRon Paul was a hot topic this week on the talk radio show hosted by prominent white supremacist Don Black and his son Derek. Mr. Black said he received Mr. Paul’s controversial newsletters when they were first published about two decades ago and described how the publications were perceived by members of the white supremacist movement.

“Everybody, all of us back in the 80′s and 90′s, felt Ron Paul was, you know, unusual in that he had actually been a Congressman, that he was one of us and now, of course, that he has this broad demographic–broad base of support,” Mr. Black said on his broadcast yesterday.

And of course, who would know better than a member of the American Nazi Party how important it is to keep one’s true beliefs hidden?

Mr. Black said he understood why Mr. Paul would want to distance himself from the newsletters.

“It was written in the first person frequently and, you know, a normal person would have thought that Ron Paul must have written this, or at least whoever wrote it must have did so with the approval of Ron Paul, but things change,” Mr. Black said. “So, now that he has this new base of support of course, he’s having–frantically trying to disavow himself from the newsletters, and I agree the newsletters were a little over the top.”

Get that? A former Klansman and overt neo-Nazi says Ron Paul’s language back in the bad old days was “over the top.”

What he really means: “a little too revealing.”

Also calling in to Black’s hate radio show this week to sing the praises of Ron Paul: white supremacist superstar David Duke.

Former KKK Grand Wizard and Louisiana Congressman David Duke, who was something of a mentor to Mr. Black during their days in the Klan, called in to discuss Mr. Paul. Though he said he wasn’t ready to make an official endorsement, Mr. Duke explained why he’ll be voting for Mr. Paul.

“Again, I go back to that, you know, traditional topic that I always talk about, you know, the powers of international Zionism–a power in banking, a power in media, a power in government influence, in campaign finance–a power that’s, you know, hurting the values of this country on behalf of Israel,” Mr. Duke said. “So, I would vote for Ron Paul at this moment because he’s one of the few candidates who have policies in this regard and this realm that I wholeheartedly support, and that’s why I’d vote for him.”

It should be noted that there are also allegations by another neo-Nazi, Bill White (a personal friend of right wing blogger Robert Stacy McCain), that Ron Paul went far beyond simply expressing views with which white supremacists could agree. In 2007 White posted the following comment at Vanguard News Network:

Comrades:

I have kept quiet about the Ron Paul campaign for a while, because I didn’t see any need to say anything that would cause any trouble. However, reading the latest release from his campaign spokesman, I am compelled to tell the truth about Ron Paul’s extensive involvement in white nationalism.

Both Congressman Paul and his aides regularly meet with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review, and others at the Tara Thai restaurant in Arlington, Virginia, usually on Wednesdays. This is part of a dinner that was originally organized by Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis and Joe Sobran, and has since been mostly taken over by the Council of Conservative Citizens.

I have attended these dinners, seen Paul and his aides there, and been invited to his offices in Washington to discuss policy.

For his spokesman to call white racialism a “small ideology” and claim white activists are “wasting their money” trying to influence Paul is ridiculous. Paul is a white nationalist of the Stormfront type who has always kept his racial views and his views about world Judaism quiet because of his political position.

I don’t know that it is necessarily good for Paul to “expose” this. However, he really is someone with extensive ties to white nationalism and for him to deny that in the belief he will be more respectable by denying it is outrageous — and I hate seeing people in the press who denounce racialism merely because they think it is not fashionable.

Bill White, Commander
American National Socialist Workers Party

I have history with Mr. White myself; he directly threatened my life in 2008, and tried to find my home address and the addresses of my family members.

(h/t: Randall Gross.)

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97 comments
1 wilburs  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:04:23am

Paul certainly has helpful friends.

2 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:07:10am

You can judge a man by the company he keeps.

3 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:15:20am

re: #2 Rightwingconspirator

You can judge a man by the company he keeps.

This is simply guilt by association!!1!

4 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:16:17am

I'd like to see the next reporter to interview Ron Paul use this Ron Paul Newsletter Decision Tree as a visual aid, since he seems to be so successful at bamboozling the media on the question of his responsibility.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:16:41am

re: #3 wrenchwench

When the number of associations reaches a certain limit, that excuse becomes rather dumb.

6 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:18:26am

The thing that astounds me about these stories - I posted the TPM story about Paul's Iowa chair and the death penalty for gays on my Facebook page yesterday, and a few of my friends seem to be dismissing this stuff as your usual campaign rhetoric.

Among my friends at least, there seems to be an attitude that 'you can find something wrong with any candidate,' and Paul's past (and present) associations are some kind of 'gotcha' game.

It's really bothering me, because the people saying these things are otherwise pretty smart people and I don't know how to make clear to them that this isn't just politics as usual and the guy's got some really bad friends.

7 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:18:44am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

When the number of associations reaches a certain limit, that excuse becomes rather dumb.

You're not calling "strikefo" dumb, are you?

/

8 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:20:09am

But he'll legalize pot and stop all of the endless wars man.

//

9 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:23:01am

re: #6 makeitstop

The thing that astounds me about these stories - I posted the TPM story about Paul's Iowa chair and the death penalty for gays on my Facebook page yesterday, and a few of my friends seem to be dismissing this stuff as your usual campaign rhetoric.

Among my friends at least, there seems to be an attitude that 'you can find something wrong with any candidate,' and Paul's past (and present) associations are some kind of 'gotcha' game.

It's really bothering me, because the people saying these things are otherwise pretty smart people and I don't know how to make clear to them that this isn't just politics as usual and the guy's got some really bad friends.

Blind affection, or blind hatred, leads to, well blindness.

10 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:24:03am

re: #8 Gus 802

But he'll legalize pot and stop all of the endless wars man.

//

Ron Paul's leftist paradise!///

11 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:24:42am

re: #7 wrenchwench

You're not calling "strikefo" dumb, are you?

/

Who?

12 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:25:27am

re: #6 makeitstop

The thing that astounds me about these stories - I posted the TPM story about Paul's Iowa chair and the death penalty for gays on my Facebook page yesterday, and a few of my friends seem to be dismissing this stuff as your usual campaign rhetoric.

Among my friends at least, there seems to be an attitude that 'you can find something wrong with any candidate,' and Paul's past (and present) associations are some kind of 'gotcha' game.

It's really bothering me, because the people saying these things are otherwise pretty smart people and I don't know how to make clear to them that this isn't just politics as usual and the guy's got some really bad friends.

I've been hearing that line too, 'you can find something wrong with any candidate,' and I hate it. I get it in response to pointing out the hard core anti-choice attitudes of all the Republican candidates. I would think when it comes to Paul, one could respond, "Yes, but hanging out with Nazis isn't just 'something'. What would count as 'beyond the pale' for you?"

13 Olsonist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:26:00am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

When the number of associations reaches a certain limit, that excuse becomes rather dumb.

When correlation reaches a certain limit, causation becomes rather immaterial.

14 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:26:02am

re: #9 SanFranciscoZionist

Blind affection, or blind hatred, leads to, well blindness.

You are correct, SFZ. Still, it makes me sad. Either my friends are being hoodwinked on a massive scale, or I don't know them as well as I thought I did.

Either way you slice it, it sucks.

15 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:26:12am

re: #11 Sergey Romanov

Who?

Follow the link in the '!!1!'

16 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:27:24am

re: #15 wrenchwench

oh! thx :)

17 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:30:05am

Crash Test Dummies Founder Thought Mitt Romney Was "One Of Us"

candidate falsely implied that he had experience with subjecting himself to stress; dummies organization seeks 'less mechanical' contender to backl

18 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:36:31am

*yawn*

Am I the only person getting bored of Ron Paul? I mean, sure he's wacky and dangerous and nonsensical, but he's been peddling the exact same wacky, dangerous, and nonsensical garbage for years without really adding anything new. I mean, sure, we find new links between him and (insert extremist group here), but we already knew they existed. The newsletters are old news and watching the news media slowly discover them just don't cut it. Can't he do something exciting for once? Toss out some new crazy, unexpected position?

19 Tumulus11  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:40:51am

. For decades Ron Paul has been an ugly crank, fronting for a grotesque cluster of Aryan Supremacists, Jew-Haters, conspiracy freaks, fools and disordered snakes. But he has been consistent.

20 Mattand  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:45:00am
Both Congressman Paul and his aides regularly meet with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review, and others at the Tara Thai restaurant in Arlington, Virginia, usually on Wednesdays. This is part of a dinner that was originally organized by Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis and Joe Sobran, and has since been mostly taken over by the Council of Conservative Citizens.

Did I just hallucinate this paragraph? White racists meet for dinner in an Asian restaurant?

These morons are so pathetic they can't even get their own bigotry right.

21 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:45:10am

re: #17 engineer dog

Crash Test Dummies Founder Thought Mitt Romney Was "One Of Us"

candidate falsely implied that he had experience with subjecting himself to stress; dummies organization seeks 'less mechanical' contender to backl

Crash Test Dummies?

22 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:46:16am

re: #19 Tumulus11

. For decades Ron Paul has been an ugly crank, fronting for a grotesque cluster of Aryan Supremacists, Jew-Haters, conspiracy freaks, fools and disordered snakes. But he has been consistent.

Exactly! Boring. Can we get Herman Cain back? He was a big box of surprises and excitement.

23 BishopX  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:46:32am

re: #20 mattand

Why not. These assholes look down their noses at the cooks and waiters anyway, why not look down their noses at brown people while talking about how brown people are bad.

24 theheat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:47:27am

I don't know the problem is that Ron Paul is a not so closeted racist, nutjob, and Jew hater, or the fact people still like him in spite of that, and he's on television regularly as if none of it matters. To a lot of people, the truth about Ron Paul does not matter. It's astounding.

25 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:48:03am

re: #23 BishopX

Why not. These assholes look down their noses at the cooks and waiters anyway, why not look down thier noses at brown people while talking about how brown people are bad.

And the brown people are everywhere and have all the rights, while the poor oppressed white people can't even be bigoted when they want.

26 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:49:23am

re: #25 b_sharp

And the brown people are everywhere and have all the rights, while the poor oppressed white people can't even be bigoted when they want.

It's racist that white people like me aren't supposed to be racist anymore!

27 Mattand  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:50:10am

re: #6 makeitstop

The thing that astounds me about these stories - I posted the TPM story about Paul's Iowa chair and the death penalty for gays on my Facebook page yesterday, and a few of my friends seem to be dismissing this stuff as your usual campaign rhetoric.

Among my friends at least, there seems to be an attitude that 'you can find something wrong with any candidate,' and Paul's past (and present) associations are some kind of 'gotcha' game.

It's really bothering me, because the people saying these things are otherwise pretty smart people and I don't know how to make clear to them that this isn't just politics as usual and the guy's got some really bad friends.

Same problem here. With one or two exceptions, most of my friends and family are relatively apathetic politically. While that cuts down on things like 9/11 troofers and Fox News groupies, it has the negative effect of what you describe above.

Perry's supposed newfound "make them wimmen have the babies regardless" approach to abortion is another example. Most people I know just dismiss it as "Oh, those nuts", instead of being even remotely horrified by such an attitude.

28 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:51:49am

re: #14 makeitstop

You are correct, SFZ. Still, it makes me sad. Either my friends are being hoodwinked on a massive scale, or I don't know them as well as I thought I did.

Either way you slice it, it sucks.

To quote from "Yo, Is This Racist?":

Yo, you need some new friends.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:52:31am

re: #20 mattand

Did I just hallucinate this paragraph? White racists meet for dinner in an Asian restaurant?

These morons are so pathetic they can't even get their own bigotry right.

If I were the owner of Tara Thai, I'd be putting up a sign that says NO BIGOTS ALLOWED ON THE PREMISES.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:53:29am

re: #26 Simply Sarah

It's racist that white people like me aren't supposed to be racist anymore!

We're not even fleet-footed! Why can't we at least be racist!

31 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:53:55am

re: #27 mattand

Same problem here. With one or two exceptions, most of my friends and family are relatively apathetic politically. While that cuts down on things like 9/11 troofers and Fox News groupies, it has the negative effect of what you describe above.

Perry's supposed newfound "make them wimmen have the babies regardless" approach to abortion is another example. Most people I know just dismiss it as "Oh, those nuts", instead of being even remotely horrified by such an attitude.

That has basically been my family's reaction to a lot of those kinds of things. "Oh, they'll never actually do that. Oh, it'll never pass. Oh, they'll be voted out if they try that."

And yet this year saw how many states pass or come close to passing supposedly insane plans like banning collective bargaining or completely banning abortion or defunding women's health? With noise about similar things in Congress, only stopped in large part due to the Senate?

Lots of people don't realize just how far off the rails we've gone.

32 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:55:19am

I'm no fan of single-issue voting, but I will say this: if you're strongly supported by someone who renders his party-leadership position as 'commander', I will not be voting for you.

33 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:56:46am

re: #26 Simply Sarah

It's racist that white people like me aren't supposed to be racist anymore!

Damn right. I feel so abused, especially since I'm white, male and heterosexual which is the most oppressed minority in North America.

34 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 11:58:19am

re: #21 b_sharp

Crash Test Dummies?

Mmm-mmm-mmm-mmm.....

35 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:01:03pm

re: #34 makeitstop

Mmm-mmm-mmm-mmm...

I have an urge. An urge to say:

Please makeitstop.

36 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:01:34pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

To quote from "Yo, Is This Racist?":

To be clear - these FB friends are from back in high school and live in the town where I grew up. I haven't seen them in years in some cases.

Still, I thought they were smarter than this. Or maybe they are racists. I'm truthfully not sure, but it does bother me.

37 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:03:20pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

If I were the owner of Tara Thai, I'd be putting up a sign that says NO BIGOTS ALLOWED ON THE PREMISES.

And being the good Libertarians they are, they'd nod sagely and accept the fact that the restaurant owner is within his rights to refuse them service.

/// need about 50 more of those...

38 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:03:34pm

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

We're not even fleet-footed! Why can't we at least be racist!

It's a whites only race to the Chinese Asian restaurant.

39 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:06:05pm

re: #20 mattand

Did I just hallucinate this paragraph? White racists meet for dinner in an Asian restaurant?

These morons are so pathetic they can't even get their own bigotry right.

I've seen this with boards/committees before. Some don't like Chinese food, others allergic to seafood, some don't want Italian or pizza...

But everyone will eat Thai food!

40 Jerk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:06:09pm

Ron Paul: making neoconservatives look good

41 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:07:08pm

re: #40 Jerk

Ron Paul: making neoconservatives look good

The modern GOP in general is starting to make me miss neocons.

42 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:08:56pm

Kelly Clarkson and Michelle Branch have both come out as Ron Paul supporters, and that's touched off a kerfuffle of its own:

Clarkson's initial tweet read, "I love Ron Paul. I liked him a lot during the last republican nomination and no one gave him a chance. If he wins the nomination for the Republican party in 2012 he's got my vote. Too bad he probably won't." Branch responded to her, "I wholeheartedly agree. #RonPaul." Both singers then faced a barrage of angry tweets from their followers, who accused the two of supporting racism and the death penalty, and of not supporting equal rights for same-sex couples, by extension of their love for Paul.

Clarkson responded to those criticisms in a followup tweet: "I am really sorry if I have offended anyone. Obviously that was not my intent. I do not support racism. I support gay rights, straight rights, women's rights, men's rights, white/black/purple/orange rights. I like Ron Paul because he believes in less government and letting the people (all of us) make the decisions and mold our country. That is all. Out of all of the Republican nominees, he's my favorite." Branch also responded in turn: "Hmm. Didn't mean to offend. I am not racist and am absolutely not a homophobe. Just trying to weed through the non-impressive choices!"

Besides the part where anyone would or should consider Hollywood endorsements in making their own voting preferences, the fact that either would consider Paul the best of a dismal bunch is troubling. You can't say you support gay rights and then turn around and endorse Paul, not when his on-the-record positions undermine gay rights. Ditto for his stance on race-relations. Or anti-Semitism. (I could go on, but you already get the idea).

One can support smaller government without supporting Paul and the crazy train of baggage he comes with.

43 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:11:41pm

re: #42 lawhawk

I think I am going to start referring to this as "dim sum politics". Folk think they can pick and choose a few dishes from a candidate's or party's positions and support based on that without understanding that they're going to get the whole menu whether they like it or not.

44 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:13:22pm

re: #43 oaktree

I think I am going to start referring to this as "dim sum politics". Folk think they can pick and choose a few dishes from a candidate's or party's positions and support based on that without understanding that they're going to get the whole menu whether they like it or not.

I like it.

45 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:15:51pm

re: #42 lawhawk

Man, people who otherwise seem to be apathetic or ignorant to issues of race certainly are supportive of the hypothetical purple and orange peoples.

46 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:17:22pm

re: #20 mattand

Did I just hallucinate this paragraph? White racists meet for dinner in an Asian restaurant?

These morons are so pathetic they can't even get their own bigotry right.

Well... there is a precedent.

47 Neutral President  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:18:26pm

20 Year old college students who think they know everything thought he was 'One of Us' as well.

This same crowd is also starting to buy the "End the Fed" bullshit hook, line, und zinker too. They are moving beyond pot and wars now. Expanding into the greater kookosphere with wide-eyed innocence that makes you want to pat them on the head and say "oh bless their hearts".

Unfortunately there could be actual, real world consequences to this if they get off their asses and vote for a change.

48 sagehen  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:21:00pm

re: #42 lawhawk

Kelly Clarkson and Michelle Branch have both come out as Ron Paul supporters, and that's touched off a kerfuffle of its own:

Besides the part where anyone would or should consider Hollywood endorsements in making their own voting preferences, the fact that either would consider Paul the best of a dismal bunch is troubling. You can't say you support gay rights and then turn around and endorse Paul, not when his on-the-record positions undermine gay rights. Ditto for his stance on race-relations. Or anti-Semitism. (I could go on, but you already get the idea).

One can support smaller government without supporting Paul and the crazy train of baggage he comes with.

If either of them really supported any of the rights their tweets claim to... and if they knew anything more about the candidates than maybe they saw a couple 30-second ads... they'd be throwing in for Obama.

49 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:23:35pm

re: #43 oaktree

Pu Pu platter of political participation. I'll take candidate A, but not position X, Y, and Z because they support M. So, even though X, Y, and Z should disqualify that candidate from ever serving in higher office (but X, Y, and Z define much of what that candidate really stands for), they still have my vote because they support M.

At least Aston Kutcher at the smarts to retract his former support for Penn State after realizing that the situation was far worse than he first was led to believe. Clarkson and to a lesser extent Branch are doubling down on their support - even though they know or have reason to know of just what Paul is about, and what it would mean for gay rights, race relations, and a whole host of issues that Paul would eviscerate by means of carrying through on some of his promises.

50 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:26:12pm

re: #49 lawhawk

Pu Pu platter of political participation. I'll take candidate A, but not position X, Y, and Z because they support M. So, even though X, Y, and Z should disqualify that candidate from ever serving in higher office (but X, Y, and Z define much of what that candidate really stands for), they still have my vote because they support M.

At least Aston Kutcher at the smarts to retract his former support for Penn State after realizing that the situation was far worse than he first was led to believe. Clarkson and to a lesser extent Branch are doubling down on their support - even though they know or have reason to know of just what Paul is about, and what it would mean for gay rights, race relations, and a whole host of issues that Paul would eviscerate by means of carrying through on some of his promises.

Maybe either they or their handlers for some reason think it's a good business move, since Paul seems popular with some young people.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:26:27pm

re: #36 makeitstop

To be clear - these FB friends are from back in high school and live in the town where I grew up. I haven't seen them in years in some cases.

Still, I thought they were smarter than this. Or maybe they are racists. I'm truthfully not sure, but it does bother me.

The entire Jewish blogosphere is currently obsessed with the backlash against the crazy anti-Zionist religious fanatics who are acting out in Beit Shemesh. People from "Jews for Skimpier Bikinis" to "The Ladies' Society for Wearing More Opaque Stockings" are speaking out. What do I find, but a link to one of my less favorite bloggers, who has figured out that the entire thing is a put-up job by the New Israel fund and SOROS to turn people against the Orthodox.

Some people, they have one idea in their heads, and they just can't quit it.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:27:37pm

re: #39 oaktree

I've seen this with boards/committees before. Some don't like Chinese food, others allergic to seafood, some don't want Italian or pizza...

But everyone will eat Thai food!

It took me a while to get my mother on-board with Thai. The flavor palette is different enough from Cantonese food that she wasn't sure.

She's into it now, though.

53 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:27:58pm

re: #49 lawhawk

Pu Pu platter of political participation. I'll take candidate A, but not position X, Y, and Z because they support M. So, even though X, Y, and Z should disqualify that candidate from ever serving in higher office (but X, Y, and Z define much of what that candidate really stands for), they still have my vote because they support M.

At least Aston Kutcher at the smarts to retract his former support for Penn State after realizing that the situation was far worse than he first was led to believe. Clarkson and to a lesser extent Branch are doubling down on their support - even though they know or have reason to know of just what Paul is about, and what it would mean for gay rights, race relations, and a whole host of issues that Paul would eviscerate by means of carrying through on some of his promises.

Yep. And Paul sounds like the "none of the above" anti-establishment candidate to anyone who basically has been ignoring politics for the last decade. Libertarianism sounds nice as a philosophy (as does anarchism, communism, and a lot of other -isms) but the boots on the ground implementation ideas and associated baggage leaves a lot to be desired once the philosophy collides with reality and humanity.

54 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:29:43pm

Oh look. According to Ron Paul even sanctions are bad. M'kay?

Ron Paul: Sanctions against Iran are 'acts of war'

By Paul West
December 29, 2011, 11:20 a.m.
Reporting from Perry, Iowa—

Defending himself against charges of isolationism, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul told voters in Iowa on Thursday that western sanctions against Iran are "acts of war" that are likely to lead to an actual war in the Middle East.

Paul, one of the leading contenders to win next week's Iowa caucuses, said Iran would be justified in responding to the sanctions by blocking the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz. He compared the western sanctions to a hypothetical move by China to block the Gulf of Mexico, which Americans would consider an act of war.

He also said he would not respond militarily to keep the strait open—because he would not consider it an act of war against the U.S. But if he were president, he would report to Congress on the issue, leaving it up to lawmakers to declare war if they wanted.

Continues.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:29:55pm

re: #46 negativ

Well... there is a precedent.

There's a book, "Mischling, Second Degree", written by a woman with Jewish and German ancestry who spent the war in and out of Hitler Youth camps. One of her friends there was the daughter of a German woman and a Chinese businessman. The dad had money and some influence, so his daughter was allowed to join, but had to wear a modified uniform. (The narrator was passing for entirely ethnic German.)

56 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:30:30pm

Enough already from this clown. Can the Republican Party please do something about this pathetic sack of human tissue?

57 Jerk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:30:42pm

re: #41 Simply Sarah

The modern GOP in general is starting to make me miss neocons.

Yes, these are scary political times. I know that I'm sort of preaching to the choir here, but we need more blogs like LGF, and I just donated because of the quality of this article. Every other damn site I go to on the Internet sings Ron Paul's praises, so it's nice to see a place that really gets it.

58 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:31:01pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

The entire Jewish blogosphere is currently obsessed with the backlash against the crazy anti-Zionist religious fanatics who are acting out in Beit Shemesh. People from "Jews for Skimpier Bikinis" to "The Ladies' Society for Wearing More Opaque Stockings" are speaking out. What do I find, but a link to one of my less favorite bloggers, who has figured out that the entire thing is a put-up job by the New Israel fund and SOROS to turn people against the Orthodox.

Some people, they have one idea in their heads, and they just can't quit it.

At a large degree of remove from when/where I saw the reference but are there not one (or many) Jewish jokes that derive down to the protaganist in the joke asking "What's in it for the Jews?" about the described situation?

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:31:35pm

re: #56 Gus 802

Enough already from this clown. Can the Republican Party please do something about this pathetic sack of human tissue?

That is a question. What could they do?

60 funky chicken  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:32:10pm

Thought? Was? Why the past tense?

Taqqiya!

61 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:32:12pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

The entire Jewish blogosphere is currently obsessed with the backlash against the crazy anti-Zionist religious fanatics who are acting out in Beit Shemesh. People from "Jews for Skimpier Bikinis" to "The Ladies' Society for Wearing More Opaque Stockings" are speaking out. What do I find, but a link to one of my less favorite bloggers, who has figured out that the entire thing is a put-up job by the New Israel fund and SOROS to turn people against the Orthodox.

Some people, they have one idea in their heads, and they just can't quit it.

You mean they decided to ignore the fact that non-Haredi (And even some Haredi) Orthodox Jews seem just as opposed to all this as everyone else?

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:32:36pm

re: #58 oaktree

At a large degree of remove from when/where I saw the reference but are there not one (or many) Jewish jokes that derive down to the protaganist in the joke asking "What's in it for the Jews?" about the described situation?

No, the punchline is "Is it good for the Jews?"

Somewhat different meaning there.

The classic is "OK...so what this Einstein figured out with the relativity and the light...is it good for the Jews?"

63 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:32:58pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

It took me a while to get my mother on-board with Thai. The flavor palette is different enough from Cantonese food that she wasn't sure.

She's into it now, though.

I like it as a nice mix of Chinese and Indian style ingredients with some really good seafood dishes mixed in. Best meal I had while in Malaysia was at a Thai seafood place on Langkawi Island.

64 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:33:09pm

re: #56 Gus 802

Enough already from this clown. Can the Republican Party please do something about this pathetic sack of human tissue?

They've put forward such stellar candidates as Bachmann and Perry and you ask that question?

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:33:27pm

re: #61 Simply Sarah

You mean they decided to ignore the fact that non-Haredi (And even some Haredi) Orthodox Jews seem just as opposed to all this as everyone else?

Yes, Sultan Knish is smarter than the Haredim writing letters to denounce this craziness. He's figured it all out.

///

66 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:34:37pm

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

No, the punchline is "Is it good for the Jews?"

Somewhat different meaning there.

The classic is "OK...so what this Einstein figured out with the relativity and the light...is it good for the Jews?"

I stand corrected - and it does carry a different meaning. Yes, that is what I was referring to.

67 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:35:11pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, Sultan Knish is smarter than the Haredim writing letters to denounce this craziness. He's figured it all out.

///

What you guys are talking about is all Greek to me.

68 Mattand  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:37:08pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

To quote from "Yo, Is This Racist?":

I've been laughing my ass off for the last half hour, instead of working, due to this site. Thanks for the link!

69 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:37:54pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

That is a question. What could they do?

We'll brainstorm later.

At this point I will assume that Ron Paul buys into the theory that it was our fault that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Running close behind I'll also assume that Paul also ascribes to the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. And more importantly, Ron Paul would in fact let Israel get wiped off the face of the Earth and not even lift a finger in response. For that matter any of our allies.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:38:09pm

re: #67 b_sharp

What you guys are talking about is all Greek to me.

Shorter version: An extremist gang of religious fanatics in a small city in Israel have gone too far. The whole Jewish world, observant and non, right and left, is mad at them. And a wingnut blogger has decided it's SOROOOOOS's fault.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:38:25pm

re: #68 mattand

I've been laughing my ass off for the last half hour, instead of working, due to this site. Thanks for the link!

Isn't he great?

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:38:56pm

re: #69 Gus 802

We'll brainstorm later.

At this point I will assume that Ron Paul buys into the theory that it was our fault that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Running close behind I'll also assume that Paul also ascribes to the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. And more importantly, Ron Paul would in fact let Israel get wiped off the face of the Earth and not even lift a finger in response. For that matter any of our allies.

I think if there is a theory, it's a safe bet that Ron Paul buys into it.

73 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:39:32pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

I think if there is a theory, it's a safe bet that Ron Paul buys into it.

Unless that theory is evolution, at least.

74 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:39:58pm

re: #68 mattand

I've been laughing my ass off for the last half hour, instead of working, due to this site. Thanks for the link!

Hat tip: SFZ!

75 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:40:04pm

re: #69 Gus 802

We'll brainstorm later.

At this point I will assume that Ron Paul buys into the theory that it was our fault that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Running close behind I'll also assume that Paul also ascribes to the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. And more importantly, Ron Paul would in fact let Israel get wiped off the face of the Earth and not even lift a finger in response. For that matter any of our allies.

Just a basic variation on the isolationist crud that never works and eventually gets countries crushed. It is practically always better to go fight your wars in someone else's yard where their infrastructure gets ground up rather than yours. To Europe's degradation rather than ours twice in the 20th century.

76 Inconsequential Consequence  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:42:21pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Shorter version: An extremist gang of religious fanatics in a small city in Israel have gone too far. The whole Jewish world, observant and non, right and left, is mad at them. And a wingnut blogger has decided it's SOROOOS's fault.

Thank you.

77 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:43:00pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

Shorter version: An extremist gang of religious fanatics in a small city in Israel have gone too far. The whole Jewish world, observant and non, right and left, is mad at them. And a wingnut blogger has decided it's SOROOOS's fault.

I do wonder if all this will help curb their influence back down a bit closer to their actual numbers, since it really seems they've only pushed this far because they've been allowed to get here.

78 Mattand  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:45:23pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Isn't he great?

Yo, that's some funny shit there.

The commenters there also help bolster my thesis that people who bitch loudly about political correctness are just pissed off that they can't get away with racist comments anymore.

79 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:45:31pm

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

The entire Jewish blogosphere is currently obsessed with the backlash against the crazy anti-Zionist religious fanatics who are acting out in Beit Shemesh. People from "Jews for Skimpier Bikinis" to "The Ladies' Society for Wearing More Opaque Stockings" are speaking out. What do I find, but a link to one of my less favorite bloggers, who has figured out that the entire thing is a put-up job by the New Israel fund and SOROS to turn people against the Orthodox.

Some people, they have one idea in their heads, and they just can't quit it.

I would just like to say I say for *everyone* wearing skimpier bikinis.

Except this guy -

80 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:48:37pm

re: #54 Gus 802

Oh look. According to Ron Paul even sanctions are bad. M'kay?

Ron Paul: Sanctions against Iran are 'acts of war'

Luap Nor is looking increasingly like the 'We had to burn the village to save it' candidate.

There's no way a man who has been in DC as long as he has could be blind to the ramifications of some of the things he's saying.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:48:47pm

re: #77 Simply Sarah

I do wonder if all this will help curb their influence back down a bit closer to their actual numbers, since it really seems they've only pushed this far because they've been allowed to get here.

Real resistance is going to have to come from within the Haredi community, since they are really the most affected by it. I hope that this, and the rabbis who've been speaking out, sees the beginning of people saying "No more."

82 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:49:38pm

re: #80 makeitstop

Luap Nor is looking increasingly like the 'We had to burn the village to save it' candidate.

There's no way a man who has been in DC as long as he has could be blind to the ramifications of some of the things he's saying.

Will Paul, it's closer to "We had to nuke the village..."

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:49:56pm

re: #79 wozzablog

I would just like to say I say for *everyone* wearing skimpier bikinis.

Except this guy -

[Video]

I want to know what the Jewish Organization for Stacking Things On Top Of Other Things (JOSTOTOOT) thinks about this important issue.
/

84 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:51:24pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Real resistance is going to have to come from within the Haredi community, since they are really the most affected by it. I hope that this, and the rabbis who've been speaking out, sees the beginning of people saying "No more."

I certainly hope so. This isn't really good for anyone involved: Haredi, Israelis, other Jews across the world, Israel itself...

85 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:54:10pm

re: #80 makeitstop

I disagree. He wants disengagement from the rest of the world and a return to what he thinks is a bucolic isolationism. Dismantle the national security apparatus and reduce the size of government go hand in hand, and even GOPers are realizing the insanity of those positions which is why they're hammering away on Paul's foreign policy pronouncements as being the rantings of an extremist who would leave the nation at the mercy of regimes that would do bad things to us, our allies, or potential allies/trading partners.

Ignoring Iran,and what they could do to the Middle East if they got nuclear weapons, is just the tip of that crazy train. But it's emblematic of Paul's misguided worldview.

86 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:55:57pm

re: #85 lawhawk

I disagree. He wants disengagement from the rest of the world and a return to what he thinks is a bucolic isolationism. Dismantle the national security apparatus and reduce the size of government go hand in hand, and even GOPers are realizing the insanity of those positions which is why they're hammering away on Paul's foreign policy pronouncements as being the rantings of an extremist who would leave the nation at the mercy of regimes that would do bad things to us, our allies, or potential allies/trading partners.

Ignoring Iran,and what they could do to the Middle East if they got nuclear weapons, is just the tip of that crazy train. But it's emblematic of Paul's misguided worldview.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of his domestic policy, which pretty much does seem to be "Goodbye Government!"

87 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:56:32pm

re: #68 mattand

I've been laughing my ass off for the last half hour, instead of working, due to this site. Thanks for the link!

i have to admit i've just done the same thing

88 sagehen  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:58:06pm

re: #86 Simply Sarah

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of his domestic policy, which pretty much does seem to be "Goodbye Government!"

89 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:59:09pm

Laundry
a
t
e
r

90 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 12:59:57pm

re: #86 Simply Sarah

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of his domestic policy, which pretty much does seem to be "Goodbye Government!"

Leaving things in the hands of the states I presume?

Which would be a mess since a lot of things would go south (figurtively) once the various interstate commerce, 14th amendment protections, etc. become toothless. With large corporations about a lot of things would become legislative races for the bottom to attract business, especially in states without broad-based internal economies and/or good transportation networks.

Any bets on which state would be dismembered and absorbed by other states first?

91 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:01:07pm

re: #90 oaktree

Leaving things in the hands of the states I presume?

Which would be a mess since a lot of things would go south (figurtively) once the various interstate commerce, 14th amendment protections, etc. become toothless. With large corporations about a lot of things would become legislative races for the bottom to attract business, especially in states without broad-based internal economies and/or good transportation networks.

Any bets on which state would be dismembered and absorbed by other states first?

Oh, no doubt. What he wants would cause a clusterfuck of epic proportions as the country imploded on itself.

92 Jerk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:09:44pm

re: #91 Simply Sarah

Oh, no doubt. What he wants would cause a clusterfuck of epic proportions as the country imploded on itself.

But... States Rights™

93 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:11:20pm

re: #90 oaktree

Leaving things in the hands of the states I presume?

Which would be a mess since a lot of things would go south (figurtively) once the various interstate commerce, 14th amendment protections, etc. become toothless. With large corporations about a lot of things would become legislative races for the bottom to attract business, especially in states without broad-based internal economies and/or good transportation networks.

Any bets on which state would be dismembered and absorbed by other states first?

re: #91 Simply Sarah

Oh, no doubt. What he wants would cause a clusterfuck of epic proportions as the country imploded on itself.

Basically, whether he realizes it or not, Ron Paul is arguing for the end to the United States of America as it stands right now, in favor of an America that never was and was never intended to be.

Fuck that.

94 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:11:41pm

re: #90 oaktree

Any bets on which state would be dismembered and absorbed by other states first?

it would depend on which corporations owned which states

95 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:16:11pm

re: #90 oaktree

Any bets on which state would be dismembered and absorbed by other states first?

Good point. I have always thought that what these libertarian morons propose is in effect turning the USA into 50 nations doing their own things, with no compatible standards (such as in education). It would ultimately mean the end of the USA (as in "United"), and some would merge to better compete with others. Perhaps in a few generations, if morons continued to be elected, one would end up with half a dozen countries.

96 Ming  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:26:45pm

re: #6 makeitstop

The thing that astounds me about these stories - I posted the TPM story about Paul's Iowa chair and the death penalty for gays on my Facebook page yesterday, and a few of my friends seem to be dismissing this stuff as your usual campaign rhetoric.

Among my friends at least, there seems to be an attitude that 'you can find something wrong with any candidate,' and Paul's past (and present) associations are some kind of 'gotcha' game.

It's really bothering me, because the people saying these things are otherwise pretty smart people and I don't know how to make clear to them that this isn't just politics as usual and the guy's got some really bad friends.

This is one of several comments that responds to the important observation quoted above from makeitstop. Yes, there are qualitative, important differences among different behaviors. And yes, associating with these neo-Nazis is a different matter entirely from, say, changing one's position about the individual health-care mandate.

I'm also sorry to read that Charles was threatened by one of these neo-Nazis. There's something scary to me about how darned COMFORTABLE Ron Paul looks in that photo (in the blog post) with those people from Stormfront. Personally, I would be quite frightened just to be within a few yards of people like that, and I'd be shaking like a leaf if I found myself (somehow) at one of their conventions, or in a radio studio with them. Or if one of them sent me a letter asking me to write for their newsletter.

In comparison with all this, Herman Cain's behavior (criminal and tortious as it may well have been) seems like harmless adolescent games, and Mitt Romney's changes in position, while dishonest, seem almost genteel. Even sociopathy (Newt Gingrich, John Edwards) doesn't have quite the "scary edge" that a word like STORMFRONT does.

I hope that this latest "detour" in the Republican nomination contest ends soon! We're in some BAAAD territory here! All this might make me OK with Mitt Romney as the nominee, except now he's saying he'd vote for Ron Paul over Obama! And Sarah Palin is waiting in the wings??? (even she doesn't know for sure). Is it too late to draft Chris Christie?

97 budda10000  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 10:35:10pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

If I were the owner of Tara Thai, I'd be putting up a sign that says NO BIGOTS ALLOWED ON THE PREMISES.

People do business with those that dont like them and those they dont like all the time. I did business with a fellow for a long time with little knowledge of his political views. He knew that I dated non-whites yet said nothing. Eventually I found out he was a nazi.. Stupid belief but it never interfered with commerce. The one thing Ron Paul say's that isn't crazy is that trading w/ potential enemies can disarm future conflicts. When both sides have significant profit loss involved in following their underlying hatred they tend to keep the crazy side in check.


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