Mitt Romney: I’d Vote For Ron Paul

Party loyalty among the clowns
Politics • Views: 27,718

Mitt Romney takes the concept of “party loyalty” to a ridiculous extreme, and ends up saying Ron Paul would be a better President than Barack Obama.

What a beautiful example of absurd cognitive dissonance. Romney, of course, is being the archetypal cynical politician here; he only said this because he knows it will never happen.

But the clear message from Romney is that Ron Paul’s history of racism, antisemitism, paranoid conspiracy theories, and connections to extremist groups like the John Birch Society are less of a problem than a black man in the White House.

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441 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:11:30pm

Mitt has proven to be a real weasel.

2 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:13:32pm

That statement alone should disqualify Mitt Romney from consideration as a GOP candidate.

3 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:14:37pm

wow

what’s the difference between mitt romney and a prostitute?

prostitutes need the money and deliver an honest product

4 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:14:59pm

He disagrees with a lot of what Ron Paul says, and would “vehemently oppose many of his initiatives”… but still he’d vote for him. Wotta maroon.

5 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:15:05pm

re: #2 darthstar

That statement alone should disqualify Mitt Romney from consideration as a GOP candidate.

Well, Romney has finally said something that convinces me I wouldn’t vote for him, even if I were unhappy with Obama’s performance.

Good going Mitt!

6 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:16:04pm

Mitt’s head starts shaking ‘no’ before he gets it under control and ends with nodding ‘yes.’

7 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:19:49pm

Mitt will be the GOP candidate…for all his shortcomings he may even beat BO…just have to get used to it…if BO was vetted to this extent maybe Hillary would have run

8 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:21:13pm

It’s not the black man in the white house, it’s all the money going down the drain.

9 nines09  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:21:50pm

How much further into the abyss can they fall? Is this the “exceptionalism” Rick “The Dolt” Santorum speaks of? What a train wreck. What a farce. What a load of dung.

10 Winny Spencer  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:22:20pm

What a disappointment.

11 HoosierHoops  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:22:27pm

re: #7 albusteve

Mitt will be the GOP candidate…for all his shortcomings he may even beat BO…just have to get used to it…if BO was vetted to this extent maybe Hillary would have run

Hey..You still in Oklahoma?

12 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:22:31pm

This, in a nutshell, is a glowing example of how far the Republican Party has fallen, in their absolutist views.

Twenty-odd years ago, when David Duke was the Republican who was in a runoff with Edwin Edwards (who had a rather shady history in his financial dealings, for which he later went to prison) for the Louisiana Governor’s seat, they not only disavowed themselves from him, but the national committee went as far as campaigning for Edwards. Of particular note was one of the campaign slogans that came from the runoff campaign:

“Vote for the Crook. It’s Important”.

You wouldn’t see anything even close to that if Paul somehow got the nomination.

13 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:22:53pm

re: #8 chunkymonkey

It’s not the black man in the white house, it’s all the money going down the drain.

Like worthless DOD contracts?

14 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:24:02pm

“Mitt Romney takes the concept of “party loyalty” to a ridiculous extreme, and ends up saying Ron Paul would be a better President than Barack Obama.”

John Bolton doesn’t think so.

Ron Paul’s foreign policy worse than Obama’s, says John Bolton

15 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:24:47pm

re: #8 chunkymonkey

It’s not the black man in the white house, it’s all the money going down the drain.

Yep. No money at all will be saved by withdrawing from Iraq or (hopefully) letting the Bush tax cuts expire. AUSTERITY NOW!

16 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:24:53pm

re: #7 albusteve

Mitt will be the GOP candidate…for all his shortcomings he may even beat BO…just have to get used to it…if BO was vetted to this extent maybe Hillary would have run

Just because they didn’t find anything worse than Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and the ghost of Saul Alinsky doesn’t mean he wasn’t “vetted to this extent.”

And I hear Hillary will be the VP on the ticket.

17 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:26:05pm

re: #7 albusteve

Mitt will be the GOP candidate…for all his shortcomings he may even beat BO…just have to get used to it…if BO was vetted to this extent maybe Hillary would have run

What in the hell are you talking about? Obama was under a bigger magnifying glass from his opposition than just about any other candidate in history. And when they couldn’t find anything damning against him, they actually made a whole bunch of crap up.

18 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:26:39pm

re: #14 Bubblehead II

“Mitt Romney takes the concept of “party loyalty” to a ridiculous extreme, and ends up saying Ron Paul would be a better President than Barack Obama.”

John Bolton doesn’t think so.

Ron Paul’s foreign policy worse than Obama’s, says John Bolton

So Mitt has less sense than John Bolton. That’s saying something.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:27:10pm

re: #8 chunkymonkey

It’s not the black man in the white house, it’s all the money going down the drain.

Would you say that any of the Republican candidates have done anything to convince me, the voter, that they would actually prevent money from ‘going down the drain’? Certainly, the eight years of the last Republican in the White House did not indicate that they were any good at that.

20 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:27:42pm

re: #11 HoosierHoops

Hey..You still in Oklahoma?

wheeled into ABQ an hour ago…sunny, and a warm 58deg…sweet

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:28:14pm

re: #17 RadicalModerate

What in the hell are you talking about? Obama was under a bigger magnifying glass from his opposition than just about any other candidate in history. And when they couldn’t find anything damning against him, they actually made a whole bunch of crap up.

Don’t even try. There’s a portion of the population that remains convinced that we know nothing about Obama, and no matter how much you point out that that’s not true, it gets you nowhere.

22 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:28:39pm

re: #7 albusteve

Mitt will be the GOP candidate…for all his shortcomings he may even beat BO…just have to get used to it…if BO was vetted to this extent maybe Hillary would have run

Hoo-boy! Is it getting bat-shit crazy in here or what?

23 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:28:55pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

Just because they didn’t find anything worse than Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and the ghost of Saul Alinsky doesn’t mean he wasn’t “vetted to this extent.”

And I hear Hillary will be the VP on the ticket.

call it what you will…as I see it he slid in through the bathroom window

24 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:29:38pm

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Would you say that any of the Republican candidates have done anything to convince me, the voter, that they would actually prevent money from ‘going down the drain’? Certainly, the eight years of the last Republican in the White House did not indicate that they were any good at that.

Yeah, they’d take away the Welfare Queens’ Cadillacs and end ‘funemployment,’ thus saving America.

25 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:29:56pm

re: #23 albusteve

call it what you will…as I see it he slid in through the bathroom window

Well, he is black.
/

26 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:30:00pm

re: #23 albusteve

call it what you will…as I see it he slid in through the bathroom window

Looked like the front door to me. Still government housing, I guess.

27 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:30:50pm

re: #23 albusteve

call it what you will…as I see it he slid in through the bathroom window

Obama was heavily scrutinized; pretending otherwise is nuttier than a walnut with an almond inside.

28 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:32:06pm

re: #25 darthstar

Well, he is black.
/

don’t get me wrong…I think he is the greatest American ever born in Kenya

29 HoosierHoops  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:32:10pm

re: #20 albusteve

wheeled into ABQ an hour ago…sunny, and a warm 58deg…sweet

Glad you had a safe road trip.. It’s beautiful here today.. In the 60’s

30 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:32:13pm

Santorum’s Plan To End Poverty: More Marriage

31 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:33:09pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Obama was heavily scrutinized; pretending otherwise is nuttier than a walnut with an almond inside.

do you think he was scrutinized as much or more than Romney?

32 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:33:17pm

Romney may be a cynical politician, but I reject Charles’ implication that his dislike for President Obama is racially motivated. If I felt for a moment that Romney was a racist, I’d never have a good thing to say about him. Romney’s problem is that he is more liberal than he can afford to admit to the party faithful. He is going for the GOP nod “by all means necessary,” and that means he will do things while holding his nose in order to hold off the REAL crazies in the field.

33 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:33:42pm

re: #28 albusteve

don’t get me wrong…I think he is the greatest American ever born in Kenya

OK, Steve, now you’re just screwing with people.

34 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:34:09pm

re: #7 albusteve

if BO was vetted to this extent

???

perhaps you could bring something to our attention that was not aired in the national media during 2008

35 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:34:18pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum’s Plan To End Poverty: More Marriage

So he wants gay people to be poor? Oh well, at least he hasn’t called for public stonings.

Rick Santorum: better than Iran, I guess?

36 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:34:22pm

re: #28 albusteve

don’t get me wrong…I think he is the greatest American ever born in Kenya

It’s difficult to tell when you’re joking and when you’re just drunk and letting what you really think come to the surface.

37 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:35:02pm

re: #29 HoosierHoops

Glad you had a safe road trip.. It’s beautiful here today.. In the 60’s

my beef with OK is the endless road construction around OKC and the relentless toll booths on the turnpike

38 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:35:20pm

re: #31 albusteve

do you think he was scrutinized as much or more than Romney?

we haven’t even begun to scrutinize romney yet

39 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:35:55pm

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

Romney may be a cynical politician, but I reject Charles’ implication that his dislike for President Obama is racially motivated. If I felt for a moment that Romney was a racist, I’d never have a good thing to say about him. Romney’s problem is that he is more liberal than he can afford to admit to the party faithful. He is going for the GOP nod “by all means necessary,” and that means he will do things while holding his nose in order to hold off the REAL crazies in the field.

How can you be sure of that when he backpedals so hard? You believed him ‘then’ but don’t believe him now? You’re sure he’s just pandering to the base?

40 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:37:01pm

re: #36 goddamnedfrank

It’s difficult to tell when you’re joking and when you’re just drunk and letting what you really think come to the surface.

newbies always have the same complaint…I don’t take any of this stuff too serious

41 Idle Drifter  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:37:15pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum’s Plan To End Poverty: More Marriage

Getting married isn’t going to solve my problems going back to school and then finding a power generation job will.

42 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:37:27pm

re: #40 albusteve

newbies always have the same complaint…I don’t take any of this stuff too serious

*ly

43 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:37:44pm

Gingrich Floats Choosing Sarah Palin as Vice President, Energy Secretary

Caller: If you’re fortunate enough to be nominated, would you consider having Sarah Palin as your running mate?

Gingrich: She is certainly one of the people you would look at. I am a great admirer of hers and she was a remarkable reform governor of Alaska, she’s somebody who I think brings a great deal to the possibility of helping in government and that would be one of the possibilities. There are also some very important Cabinet positions that she could fill very, very well. I can’t imagine anybody who would do a better job of driving us to an energy solution than Gov. Palin, for example. Tell her that she would certainly be on the list of one of the people we would consider.

44 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:38:04pm

re: #38 engineer dog

we haven’t even begun to scrutinize romney yet

Leave poor middle-class Mitt Romney alone! He’s had a hard life and now you’re just talking mean about him!

45 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:38:27pm

re: #15 Atlas Fails

Yep. No money at all will be saved by withdrawing from Iraq or (hopefully) letting the Bush tax cuts expire. AUSTERITY NOW!

Sure, steps in the right direction, now about 11,325 more steps like those and it might make a dent.

46 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:38:42pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich Floats Choosing Sarah Palin as Vice President, Energy Secretary

Newt was actually able to say that without breaking out into laughter? I’m impressed.

47 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:39:18pm

re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like worthless DOD contracts?

Sure. And foreign aid, foreign military bases, UN funding, corporate welfare, etc.

48 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:39:42pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich Floats Choosing Sarah Palin as Vice President, Energy Secretary

two words…
votes

49 Idle Drifter  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:39:49pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich Floats Choosing Sarah Palin as Vice President, Energy Secretary

So we all we have to do is turn America into a Reality TV show and our problems will go away.

50 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:39:54pm

re: #39 wrenchwench

How can you be sure of that when he backpedals so hard? You believed him ‘then’ but don’t believe him now? You’re sure he’s just pandering to the base?

He was elected governor of a VERY liberal state. And as a native of Mass and a lifelong New Englander, I can say that any republicans that are elected in these parts are far more progressive than Paul, et al because in deep blue New England those Paul/Perry/Newt types would never stand a chance. I think he is more palatable than any other GOP candidate.

51 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:39:54pm

re: #31 albusteve

do you think he was scrutinized as much or more than Romney?

Fuck me. You’re lowering the bar all by yourself.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:40:02pm

re: #46 Simply Sarah

Newt was actually able to say that without breaking out into laughter? I’m impressed.

He’s pretty sure she loves her country the same way he does.

*wink*

/gag

53 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:40:41pm

re: #46 Simply Sarah

Newt was actually able to say that without breaking out into laughter? I’m impressed.

Newt is the guy that would say absolutely anything, if it would help him fulfill his destiny as the Chosen Savior of America.

54 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:40:50pm

re: #45 chunkymonkey

Sure, steps in the right direction, now about 11,325 more steps like those and it might make a dent.

Which are steps in the right direction, the things that Obama’s actually done, or the right-wing fantasies that the Republican candidates have vowed to fight against?

55 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:40:53pm

re: #47 chunkymonkey

Sure. And foreign aid, foreign military bases, UN funding, corporate welfare, etc.

So the Ron Paul platform.

56 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:41:03pm

re: #31 albusteve

do you think he was scrutinized as much or more than Romney?

He was right here.

57 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:41:05pm

re: #51 darthstar

Fuck me. You’re lowering the bar all by yourself.

what bar?

58 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:41:12pm

re: #50 _RememberTonyC

He was elected governor of a VERY liberal state. And as a native of Mass and a lifelong New Englander, I can say that any republicans that are elected in these parts are far more progressive than Paul, et al because in deep blue New England those Paul/Perry/Newt types would never stand a chance. I think he is more palatable than any other GOP candidate.

Well, that’s how he sold himself when he was running here, sure. Since then, though, he’s done 180s on most of those positions.

59 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:41:17pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A life preserver made of lead. Yeah, that’ll save his campaign.

60 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:10pm

re: #58 Simply Sarah

Mitt was under a massively family expectation to win. That quip a while back about telling kids to not go into politics?

Totally honest, I think, he simply had no choice and the life sucks.

61 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:10pm

re: #47 chunkymonkey

Sure. And foreign aid, foreign military bases, UN funding, corporate welfare, etc.

You left out Agenda 21…

62 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:14pm

re: #2 darthstar

That statement alone should disqualify Mitt Romney from consideration as a GOP candidate.

There’s little else he could say. To say that he’d vote for the other party’s nominee over Ron Paul would have been the Disqualifier for many in the party in Iowa. It would have been a disqualifier for my best friend too, though not for me.

And honestly, I find I can’t fault Romney for his answer. He’s come too far and put in too much time to throw it all away just to give an honest answer to one question. If I were in his place, I’d have lied too.

63 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:19pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich Floats Choosing Sarah Palin as Vice President, Energy Secretary

give it up, newt, you’re done

sorry about your revenge fantasy where everybody realizes you’re the savior of the world

64 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:34pm

re: #48 albusteve

two words…
votes

Ha ha ha! How’d that work out for McCain.

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So the Ron Paul platform.

I don’t know his platform, but if you say so.

65 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:38pm

re: #50 _RememberTonyC

He was elected governor of a VERY liberal state. And as a native of Mass and a lifelong New Englander, I can say that any republicans that are elected in these parts are far more progressive than Paul, et al because in deep blue New England those Paul/Perry/Newt types would never stand a chance. I think he is more palatable than any other GOP candidate.

I’d have to say ‘was’ more palatable. He’s gotten pretty distasteful to me.

66 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:46pm

re: #38 engineer dog

Really, the only time Romney has had any significant scrutiny was in 1999. That’s when he was brought in to head the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympic Committee in the aftermath of the big bribery scandal that hit the organization before the competition started.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:53pm

re: #39 wrenchwench

How can you be sure of that when he backpedals so hard? You believed him ‘then’ but don’t believe him now? You’re sure he’s just pandering to the base?

I’m pretty sure he’s just pandering, but I also don’t trust him not to go on pandering to the party line in office.

68 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:42:54pm

re: #53 windsagio

Newt is the guy that would say absolutely anything, if it would help him fulfill his destiny as the Chosen Savior of America.

Whereas Mitt will say anything, including that he’d vote for Ron Paul. My guess is he’s pissed Newt beat him to laying claim to Palin.

69 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:43:09pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

There’s little else he could say. To say that he’d vote for the other party’s nominee over Ron Paul would have been the Disqualifier for many in the party in Iowa. It would have been a disqualifier for my best friend too, though not for me.

And honestly, I find I can’t fault Romney for his answer. He’s come too far and put in too much time to throw it all away just to give an honest answer to one question. If I were in his place, I’d have lied too.

Good point. Why should he start telling the truth now?

70 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:43:18pm

re: #63 engineer dog

whats funny is that by all accounts, he really thinks of himself that way, as the key man of his time.

71 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:43:23pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

I’d have to say ‘was’ more palatable. He’s gotten pretty distasteful to me.

Who among them is more palatable than Romney?

72 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:43:59pm

re: #61 Atlas Fails

You left out Agenda 21…

Wouldn’t that fall in general under “UN Funding?”

73 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:44:16pm

re: #68 darthstar

I think their reasons are a bit different, Newt really seems to think of himself as some kind of superhero.

Romney (as noted above) I think of more as some kind of tragic figure.

74 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:44:30pm

re: #71 _RememberTonyC

Who among them is more palatable than Romney?

I think I’ve said this before, but can I just pick “None of the above” and be done with it?

75 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:44:55pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

If I were in his place, I’d have lied too.

Well, then you’re just like him. Other candidates have refused to answer the question rather than lie - “I’m in this race to win…I can’t answer a hypothetical.” Shit like that. Yes, it’s a way of saying “hell no, but that can change” without having to commit.

76 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:44:59pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich Floats Choosing Sarah Palin as Vice President, Energy Secretary

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

77 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:45:08pm

re: #58 Simply Sarah

Well, that’s how he sold himself when he was running here, sure. Since then, though, he’s done 180s on most of those positions.

So it is up to each of us to decide what his core beliefs are … He is chameleon like. I see him moving well into the mainstream center if he gets the GOP nod. He can work with Democrats, and that matters a LOT to me.

78 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:45:27pm

re: #73 windsagio

I think their reasons are a bit different, Newt really seems to think of himself as some kind of superhero.

Romney (as noted above) I think of more as some kind of tragic figure.

Newt just wants to become POTUS and thus Commander In Chief so that he can issue Special Order 66 before Varek gets the chance to. Yes, he is that jealous.

79 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:45:28pm

re: #61 Atlas Fails

You left out Agenda 21…

That’s one of those hipster clothing stores, right?

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:45:34pm

re: #31 albusteve

do you think he was scrutinized as much or more than Romney?

I’ve never seen a copy of Romney’s birth certificate. Or his tax returns.

81 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:45:39pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

yes lets make the corruption just bold and outright.

82 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:45:54pm

re: #73 windsagio

I think their reasons are a bit different, Newt really seems to think of himself as some kind of superhero.

Romney (as noted above) I think of more as some kind of tragic figure.

Tragic? Hardly. He did rather well for himself in business and didn’t need to go into politics. He’s not his father, don’t get the two of them confused.

83 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:04pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

Except for the whole being an incompetent whackjob.

84 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:14pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

Palin is not fit for govt service, period….
pass the bong

85 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:24pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

Oh, for Pete’s sake.

86 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:36pm

re: #82 Simply Sarah

I don’t know, I just can’t escape the feeling that this all is because of his father, and that that’s what’s driving him.

87 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:38pm

re: #72 chunkymonkey

Wouldn’t that fall in general under “UN Funding?”

Actually, not a dime of our tax money have ever been spent “implementing” Agenda 21. It’s just a list of suggestions to help countries be more environmentally-friendly. But why address real issues when there are such cool pretend ones?

88 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:41pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

She’s not qualified to work the register at the A&P.

89 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:41pm

re: #71 _RememberTonyC

Who among them is more palatable than Romney?

Nobody. He’s brought his level of palatability down there with the rest of ‘em.

90 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:47pm

I’m really concerned about Pete.

91 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:46:50pm

re: #77 _RememberTonyC

So it is up to each of us to decide what his core beliefs are … He is chameleon like. I see him moving well into the mainstream center if he gets the GOP nod. He can work with Democrats, and that matters a LOT to me.

And my opinion is that anyone that changes positions so easily and often simply cannot be trusted.

92 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:19pm

re: #85 Charles

Oh, for Pete’s sake.

Party before country.

93 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:20pm

re: #61 Atlas Fails

You left out Agenda 21…

Forest management, from those crazy one-worlders:
[Link: www.un.org…]

94 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:26pm

re: #74 Simply Sarah

I think I’ve said this before, but can I just pick “None of the above” and be done with it?

Sounds like you have … But Nov 2012 is still 10 months away … That is a lifetime in politics :)

95 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:27pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

So now you’re into booga booga conspiracy theories like Geller and Spencer?

96 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:33pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

That’s one of those hipster clothing stores, right?

Nah, it’s a hot new club.

97 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:35pm

re: #75 darthstar

Well, then you’re just like him. Other candidates have refused to answer the question rather than lie - “I’m in this race to win…I can’t answer a hypothetical.” Shit like that. Yes, it’s a way of saying “hell no, but that can change” without having to commit.

Which others have done so? Because I would prefer to do that. The important thing would be to avoid saying that I’d rather vote for Barack Obama than Ron Paul (because I would rather do than, but saying that makes you a RINO to most of the party base).

98 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:40pm

re: #66 RadicalModerate

Really, the only time Romney has had any significant scrutiny was in 1999. That’s when he was brought in to head the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympic Committee in the aftermath of the big bribery scandal that hit the organization before the competition started.

there was also some light cast on bain capital when mitt ran against teddy, but we have yet to get the whole story retold for the national audience, and count on it we will

run the country like it was a business? no thanks!

99 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:47:49pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

I think you missed the slash at the end of your post. Maybe? I hope?

100 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:48:02pm

re: #87 Atlas Fails

Actually, not a dime of our tax money have ever been spent “implementing” Agenda 21. It’s just a list of suggestions to help countries be more environmentally-friendly. But why address real issues when there are such cool pretend ones?

If there’s no funding going to it then why did you bring it up?

101 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:48:25pm

re: #90 Charles

I’m really concerned about Pete.

me too…he’s getting hammered

102 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:48:48pm

re: #100 chunkymonkey

he was making fun of you man.

Because you’re crazy.

103 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:48:51pm

re: #8 chunkymonkey

It’s not the black man in the white house, it’s all the money going down the drain.

Horse hockey…Obama’s not blameless in the amount of money this country’s had to spend since he took office, but neither is Congress. What in the hell were they supposed to do, stand by while the country (and the world) sank deeper and deeper until the recession became a full-blown depression? I have a feeling the Obama would be damned if he did, damned if he didn’t do something with the stimulus, among other things.

104 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:48:57pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

Given her energy policy would consist entirely of “Drill Baby Drill”, I’m going to respond by saying “HELL NO!”.

105 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:02pm

re: #92 darthstar

Party before country.

like that

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:30pm

re: #47 chunkymonkey

Sure. And foreign aid, foreign military bases, UN funding, corporate welfare, etc.

Do you seriously imagine that any Republican candidate with a shot at the White House is going to do better on that than Obama has?

107 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:35pm

re: #71 _RememberTonyC

Who among them is more palatable than Romney?

romney is palatable like tofu, without taste until a sauce is chosen

108 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:36pm

Is it bad that I just assume that Palin was entirely bought and owned by the Oil Companies?

probably.

109 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:52pm

re: #100 chunkymonkey

If there’s no funding going to it then why did you bring it up?

Because the things you suggested we stop funding show your ideology to be squarely in Ron Paul territory, and few things strike fear into the hearts of Paulians like Agenda 21.

110 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:58pm

re: #86 windsagio

I don’t know, I just can’t escape the feeling that this all is because of his father, and that that’s what’s driving him.

Regardless, he seems to lack the spine George Romney at least appeared to have.

111 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:49:59pm

re: #81 windsagio

yes lets make the corruption just bold and outright.

Um, you do know that Sarah Palin worked against the corruption in Alaska during her time as governor, don’t you? You can call her many things, but she wasn’t a corrupt lackey.

112 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:50:39pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

What is this I don’t even.

113 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:50:47pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Which others have done so? Because I would prefer to do that. The important thing would be to avoid saying that I’d rather vote for Barack Obama than Ron Paul (because I would rather do than, but saying that makes you a RINO to most of the party base).

you are a slave to the Party….you live by the sword, you die by the sword

114 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:50:58pm

re: #109 Atlas Fails

Because the things you suggested we stop funding show your ideology to be squarely in Ron Paul territory, and few things strike fear into the hearts of Paulians like Agenda 21.

Fuck… I thought it was chemtrails and sprinkler rainbows.

115 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:51:14pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

(because I would rather do than, but saying that makes you a RINO to most of the party base).

Glad I am not a member of a political party that regularly requires me to lie in order to remain in good graces.

116 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:51:24pm

re: #114 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought it was a negro uprising.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:51:31pm

re: #114 Slumbering Behemoth

Fuck… I thought it was chemtrails and sprinkler rainbows.

SPRINKLER RAINBOWS!

118 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:51:54pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Um, you do know that Sarah Palin worked against the corruption in Alaska during her time as governor, don’t you? You can call her many things, but she wasn’t a corrupt lackey.

Doesn’t really matter what she did before 2008. Once she went rogue, she didn’t look back.

119 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:52:04pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

That’s one of those hipster clothing stores, right?

Oh shit…I CALL BAND NAME!

120 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:52:06pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

After all you’ve heard about Palin and her dealings, you support this trial balloon by Gingrich? Pass over what you’re smoking, because it must be really good shit…

121 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:52:59pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Um, you do know that Sarah Palin worked against the corruption in Alaska during her time as governor, don’t you? You can call her many things, but she wasn’t a corrupt lackey.

You might want to rethink that. Remember that rather expensive addition to her house that she got during her time as Alaska Governor, which was really never explained where the money came from?

122 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:53:01pm

re: #108 windsagio

Is it bad that I just assume that Palin was entirely bought and owned by the Oil Companies?

probably.

I can understand why you would, but she wasn’t. So I could accept her as Secretary of Energy, with one proviso: That she is never the one member of the cabinet sequestered during the State of the Union or on other major occasions.

123 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:53:26pm

Palin is a doormat at best…a high profile doofus who has no talent for anything

124 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:53:30pm

re: #113 albusteve

you are a slave to the Party…you live by the sword, you die by the sword

When running for your party’s presidential nomination, you probably should try to avoid pissing off your party.

125 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:53:50pm

re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist

SPRINKLER RAINBOWS!

Yeah baby! YEAH!

126 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:54:07pm

re: #113 albusteve

you are a slave to the Party…you live by the sword, you die by the sword

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted that.

127 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:54:14pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

I can understand why you would, but she wasn’t. So I could accept her as Secretary of Energy, with one proviso: That she is never the one member of the cabinet sequestered during the State of the Union or on other major occasions.

Good damned god. She knows how liquid comes out of the ground, maybe, therefore she’d be a good Secretary of Energy.

I be like dang.

128 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:55:40pm

I think Obama will be reelected because he has done a good enough job to win a second term. But in case he loses, don’t you want the new President to be the type of person who can find common cause with the other party? Romney is clearly capable of that because he ran Massachusetts. Why am I so sure he really is of a closet liberal? Because he has swung right on all his “flip flops.” you don’t just reach his age and really “do a 180” on all the social issues. It’s pandering.

129 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:56:02pm

re: #123 albusteve

Palin is a doormat at best…a high profile doofus who has no talent for anything

The perfect, living, breathing example of how shallow and pointless politics has gotten in this country. A woman who truly sums up the term “lowest common denominator.”

130 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:56:09pm

“Everywhere we look, the visible spectrum is rainbows”.

That’s good ‘cid, man.

131 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:56:27pm

re: #123 albusteve

Palin is a doormat at best…a high profile doofus who has no talent for anything

I understand she was a pretty decent point guard.

132 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:56:30pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted that.

There must be a treatment program for that. Probably not covered by insurance, though.

133 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:57:10pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted that.

why?…why are you in love with partisanship?…what good does that do the country?

134 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:57:31pm

Forty something primary states still to come after 6 more days of Iowa. It’s a marathon of fools. I took some time away from the news and caught this little scene… Dogfight of The Birds

135 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:57:33pm

re: #128 _RememberTonyC

I think Obama will be reelected because he has done a good enough job to win a second term. But in case he loses, don’t you want the new President to be the type of person who can find common cause with the other party? Romney is clearly capable of that because he ran Massachusetts. Why am I so sure he really is of a closet liberal? Because he has swung right on all his “flip flops.” you don’t just reach his age and really “do a 180” on all the social issues. It’s pandering.

See, my issue is that it’s not entirely clear where his really feelings are. Is this just pandering or was 2002 the pandering? He has sent some mixed signals. And he’d be running for re-election right away, so his pandering wouldn’t really stop even after being elected.

136 allegro  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:57:39pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted chosen that.

You can at least pretend to have actually thought about it based on reason and reality.

/yeah I know

137 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:58:17pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted that.

1 up for candor.

138 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 1:59:58pm

our two political parties are akin to the Crips and Bloods…where’s mine?…I’m no stooge for any party

139 HoosierHoops  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:00:26pm

re: #118 Simply Sarah

Doesn’t really matter what she did before 2008. Once she went rogue, she didn’t look back.

Sarah.. I am so glad the direction of this board has taken with discussing Palin’s Political views..There was a day several years ago that lizards attacked her as a woman and called her every name in the book…I’m glad Charles booted those bigots..We can all agree to disagree about Palin and her views…I think she is a novice but several years ago I was compelled to defend her being called c*nt and other words.. I know Charles doesn’t really like her views either but he dumped those fools from the board

140 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:00:33pm

re: #132 wrenchwench

There must be a treatment program for that. Probably not covered by insurance, though.

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

141 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:01:08pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted that.

Then you should also accept that now, it’s put you on the wrong side of history, morality, ethics, progress, and America’s welfare. The GOP’s viciously stupid opposition to doing anything about AGW makes that clear.

142 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:01:13pm

re: #134 Rightwingconspirator

my kingdom for a national primary day!

143 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:01:16pm

re: #128 _RememberTonyC

I think Obama will be reelected because he has done a good enough job to win a second term. But in case he loses, don’t you want the new President to be the type of person who can find common cause with the other party? Romney is clearly capable of that because he ran Massachusetts. Why am I so sure he really is of a closet liberal? Because he has swung right on all his “flip flops.” you don’t just reach his age and really “do a 180” on all the social issues. It’s pandering.

Way I see it, it doesn’t matter if the Republican elected to the presidency is a “RINO” or that he’s willing to be “bipartisan.” The reality is his party has gone off the frakin’ rails and currently controls half of Congress. If they should succeed in taking the other half next November, then it won’t matter how nice he may be to Democrats, his party’s going to be guiding him by the leash from Inauguration Day onward.

144 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:01:22pm

re: #137 Rightwingconspirator

1 up for candor.

Maybe if DF were going about saying ‘I’m voting for the Republican nominee because they’re the Republican, and I support their choices, whatever they might be, because they’re the Republican.’

Tittering away in defense of such truly laughable and horrifying suggestions as Palin for a cabinet position? It’s unseemly.

145 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:01:53pm

re: #128 _RememberTonyC

I think Obama will be reelected because he has done a good enough job to win a second term. But in case he loses, don’t you want the new President to be the type of person who can find common cause with the other party? Romney is clearly capable of that because he ran Massachusetts. Why am I so sure he really is of a closet liberal? Because he has swung right on all his “flip flops.” you don’t just reach his age and really “do a 180” on all the social issues. It’s pandering.

Of course I’d rather see Romney in office than any of the other GOP kooks (with the possible exception of Huntsman, but who are we kidding?), but I think you’re looking at this wrong. I don’t think he’s a closet liberal or a genuine conservative, he’s a transparently cynical politician who had liberal positions when trying to win liberal votes in Mass. and now has conservative positions while trying to win conservative votes in the GOP primary.

146 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #138 albusteve

Downding for being severely wrong. There are places in the world where political parties act like street gangs, this ain’t one of them.

147 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:02:22pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

You care more about looks than about re-evaluating past choices based on new data.

148 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:02:54pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

AmIdol all the way…fuck principle

149 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:03:14pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

Good for gaming, not so much for politics.

150 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:03:36pm

Kind of interesting stuff going on Over at Dkos. This hit the top of the Rec List…
Vote Against FDR in ‘44

Executive Order 9066 is a crime against our constitution. It allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens by the military inside the US - without a trial. It is the worst law ever handed down by a President and it was done with nary a peep of opposition.
…
So, I don’t know about you, but I think it’s high time we send a message to the guy in the White House that we demand a more progressive President. I know the guys on the other side are bad (seriously, Thomas Dewey? How can he possibly stand up to FDR’s socio-economic policies, after giving a thumbs up to the New Deal? And Taft, that loony non-interventionist? We’d all be speaking German by now if he were in charge.) But it’s time we sent a message, that we got you here and we can take you out.

We voted for change, dammit. And FDR is nothing but a disappointment.

Kos doesn’t allow anti-Dem or 3rd party advocates to write diaries so they had to get a little clever.
There seems to be a little bit of pushback..
“Obama Hating” might be hip but sabotages The 99%

Cenk Uyger, Adam Green and several “progressive influencers” think it is hip to hate on Obama like the “Occupy” Movement is now perfecting but are helping send the “Progressive” brand into the same fringe category that will scare away the many rank-and-file progressives that support President Obama and are willing to call out his failings, but NOT sabotage him, because he is obviously in one of the most difficult circumstances an American President has ever faced and is doing more for The 99% than they will ever do.

Let’s hope they’re starting to wake up.

151 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:03:37pm

re: #139 HoosierHoops

Sarah.. I am so glad the direction of this board has taken with discussing Palin’s Political views..There was a day several years ago that lizards attacked her as a woman and called her every name in the book…I’m glad Charles booted those bigots..We can all agree to disagree about Palin and her views…I think she is a novice but several years ago I was compelled to defend her being called c*nt and other words.. I know Charles doesn’t really like her views either but he dumped those fools from the board

Well of course, those kinds of comments are disgusting, misogynistic, hateful, and have no place in any sort of vaguely civilized discussion. I personally can’t stand Palin’s politics or personality, but I will not stand for anyone insulting her as a woman or a mother or whatever. Those people can go fuck themselves. They aren’t my allies, for sure.

152 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:03:49pm

re: #144 erik_t

Maybe if DF were going about saying ‘I’m voting for the Republican nominee because they’re the Republican, and I support their choices, whatever they might be, because they’re the Republican.’

Tittering away in defense of such truly laughable and horrifying suggestions as Palin for a cabinet position? It’s unseemly.

Hey, I’m not a big fan of hers, and that’s why I put in that “never the one sequestered” line. But I thought she might be competent in the proposed position. That’s all.

153 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:04:29pm

re: #146 Dark_Falcon

Downding for being severely wrong. There are places in the world where political parties act like street gangs, this ain’t one of them.

to hell with your dings…like I give a shit

154 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:05:01pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

lol, Kos?

You spend a lot of time reading people you hate.

155 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:05:23pm

re: #138 albusteve

our two political parties are akin to the Crips and Bloods…where’s mine?…I’m no stooge for any party

Youtube Video
156 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:05:27pm

re: #153 albusteve

you realize that I had to confirm your feeling by downdinging that :D

157 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:05:40pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

“My Party, Right or Wrong”? Come on, you’re too smart to really believe that. If your party has divorced itself from reality, there’s no shame in washing your hands of it. If you don’t want to join the opposition, then go independent. Hell, support a third party if you feel you need one to identify with.

158 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:05:42pm

re: #154 windsagio

lol, Kos?

You spend a lot of time reading people you hate.

LOL…read your own comments

159 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:06:16pm

re: #158 albusteve

LOL…read your own comments

I do, multiple times. They’re just so damn brilliant!

160 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:06:44pm

re: #148 albusteve

AmIdol all the way…fuck principle

Horseshit.

161 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:06:56pm

re: #149 Slumbering Behemoth

Good for gaming, not so much for politics.

I don’t know. There’s something to be said for sticking with your party, even if they stink, and trying to improve the situation. It’s not my choice but I respect Frum for at least attempting to talk some sense into the idiots.
Personally, I’m pretty disgusted with both sides these days.

162 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:07:28pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Kind of interesting stuff going on Over at Dkos. This hit the top of the Rec List…
Vote Against FDR in ‘44

Kos doesn’t allow anti-Dem or 3rd party advocates to write diaries so they had to get a little clever.
There seems to be a little bit of pushback..
“Obama Hating” might be hip but sabotages The 99%

Let’s hope they’re starting to wake up.

That anti-FDR piece looked like pretty obvious satire to me.

EDIT: Whoops, looks like KT realized that. Comment withdrawn.

163 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:08:17pm

re: #154 windsagio

lol, Kos?

You spend a lot of time reading people you hate.

I don’t hate them. I read them to see what progressives are talking about. I do the same thing with Hot Air. It’s called learning.

164 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:08:59pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Nobody in the GOP listens to me, and I doubt they listen much to Frum. Kudos to him for trying, anyway.

165 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:09:07pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am. I’ve accepted that.

Gang mentality. How easy was it to accomplish in your case, how much of a fight did your sense of individual identity put up before you allowed it to be extinguished? I’m just wondering as to the techniques Republicans use, because unlike Cripps and Bloods I don’t think there any jumping in or tattoos involved.

166 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:09:11pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

I don’t know. There’s something to be said for sticking with your party, even if they stink, and trying to improve the situation. It’s not my choice but I respect Frum for at least attempting to talk some sense into the idiots.
Personally, I’m pretty disgusted with both sides these days.

Yeah, I’ve heard more than a few folks tell me that they’re trying to “improve” the GOP from the inside. Oddly enough, they’re all wingnuts who jumped on the Tea Party bandwagon ages ago and think that the problem with the party is it’s not far enough to the Right.

167 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:09:19pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

Your party has not earned that kind of loyalty. I believe in constant evaluation. If they change, my opinion changes. They have reached depths that you may not have realized yet. They don’t deserve you. You don’t have to become a Democrat to leave the Republicans.

168 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:09:21pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Um, you do know that Sarah Palin worked against the corruption in Alaska during her time as governor, don’t you? You can call her many things, but she wasn’t a corrupt lackey.

My gut tells me that her little “housecleaning” exercise while she was AK governor wasn’t undertaken out of altruism or because it was right, but rather because it was a way to get rivals, real or potential, out of the way. Remember those ethics investigations she was under, prompting her to resign partway through her term? I seriously doubt that she did that out of any altruism or desire to spare AK taxpayers the costs of the investigations or to; I think she quit to save her own skin and because she knew that legal fees fighting it would eat her alive, hence her jumping ship to her speaking and book gigs to get what she could get while she could.

Palin’s as big of a snake as the rest of the TPGOP bunch; don’t kid yourself that she isn’t.

169 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:09:25pm

re: #157 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

“My Party, Right or Wrong”? Come on, you’re too smart to really believe that. If your party has divorced itself from reality, there’s no shame in washing your hands of it. If you don’t want to join the opposition, then go independent. Hell, support a third party if you feel you need one to identify with.

I’d rather work to bring it back to reality. Soon enough, some of the people chasing the ‘Not-Romney’ flavor of the week are going to realize they aren’t acting in a way that wins elections. And when that time comes, they’re going to need sane people who didn’t jump ship to help them back to smart positions.

170 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:10:17pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather work to bring it back to reality.

And what form does that work take?

171 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:10:56pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don’t hate them. I read them to see what progressives are talking about. I do the same thing with Hot Air. It’s called learning.

I consider myself a pretty liberal Democrat, solidly to the left of Obama, but I’m not sure DKos commenters/diarists are the best representatives of progressivism. I look like Mitt Romney compared to some of those guys.

172 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:11:12pm

re: #168 talon_262

no wrongdoing was ever proven consistently!

Newt saying he’d appoint Palin is one of the most rediculous lies ever though, if he won the primary he’d immediately throw her in the ol’ woodchipper, she’s independent voter poison, and he knows it.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:11:26pm

re: #165 goddamnedfrank

Gang mentality. How easy was it to accomplish in your case, how much of a fight did your sense of individual identity put up before you allowed it to be extinguished? I’m just wondering as to the techniques Republicans use, because unlike Cripps and Bloods I don’t think there any jumping in or tattoos involved.

I’m a lifelong third, possibly fourth generation Democrat.

I don’t feel that my sense of individuality has been extinguished.

174 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:11:44pm

re: #171 Atlas Fails

they’re people that parts of LGF have an oldschool beef with though.

175 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:12:03pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

There’s little else he could say. To say that he’d vote for the other party’s nominee over Ron Paul would have been the Disqualifier for many in the party in Iowa. It would have been a disqualifier for my best friend too, though not for me.

And honestly, I find I can’t fault Romney for his answer. He’s come too far and put in too much time to throw it all away just to give an honest answer to one question. If I were in his place, I’d have lied too.

///Nothing like the taste of naked Partisanship in the morning!

(I really want you to be better than this DF….)

176 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:12:24pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather work to bring it back to reality. Soon enough, some of the people chasing the ‘Not-Romney’ flavor of the week are going to realize they aren’t acting in a way that wins elections. And when that time comes, they’re going to need sane people who didn’t jump ship to help them back to smart positions.

Good God in heaven, man, you don’t bring it back to reality by defending a slithering creep like Newt’s suggestion that an incompetent quitter like Palin would be a good person to put into a cabinet freaking position.

Is that really what you think you’re doing? Or is that just a hypothetical statement on your part?

177 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:13:14pm

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m a lifelong third, possibly fourth generation Democrat.

I don’t feel that my sense of individuality has been extinguished.

Not a valid comparison at all IMO. Not to be presumptuous, but I highly, highly doubt you’d still support the Democrats if they legitimized someone like Cynthia McKinney the way the GOP legitimizes Ron Paul.

178 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:13:18pm

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m a lifelong third, possibly fourth generation Democrat.

I don’t feel that my sense of individuality has been extinguished.

You also don’t self identify as a “slave to the Party,” do you?

179 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:13:23pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather work to bring it back to reality. Soon enough, some of the people chasing the ‘Not-Romney’ flavor of the week are going to realize they aren’t acting in a way that wins elections. And when that time comes, they’re going to need sane people who didn’t jump ship to help them back to smart positions.

Yes D_F, just keep pining away, eventually she’ll see that she was wrong to toss you out on your ass and come back to beg forgiveness. Meanwhile, that rough guy who wooed her with tea-scented promises and sweet nothings is going to keep riding her ass for the next election, perhaps the next two.

Me, personally, I’ve given up on her. She ran my ass out on a rail and told me I wasn’t wanted anymore, so as far as I’m concerned, I don’t want her either. If she comes crawling back to me, the only thing left to greet her will be a sneer and a door slammed in her face.

180 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:13:30pm

re: #165 goddamnedfrank

Gang mentality. How easy was it to accomplish in your case, how much of a fight did your sense of individual identity put up before you allowed it to be extinguished? I’m just wondering as to the techniques Republicans use, because unlike Cripps and Bloods I don’t think there any jumping in or tattoos involved.

well said, that part

181 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:13:40pm

re: #162 Atlas Fails

That anti-FDR piece looked like pretty obvious satire to me.

Ah, thanks, I didn’t catch that. I thought they were just being clever trying to get around some of Kos’ rules.
Well, that’s certainly more hopeful than I first thought. There’s a bit of a pie fight in the comments but it looks like the tide is turning. Progressives are starting to wake up, glad to see it. BTW, it looks like the wheels have come off the OWS bandwagon. Diaries about rapists and child molesters at OWS and bitching about the anti-Obama sentiment. I think it might be game over. The radicals overplayed their hand if progressives aren’t buying it anymore.

182 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:14:02pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

I have to agree with Dark here. The voters he’s fishing for would run, not walk, to RP.

183 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:14:40pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather work to bring it back to reality. Soon enough, some of the people chasing the ‘Not-Romney’ flavor of the week are going to realize they aren’t acting in a way that wins elections. And when that time comes, they’re going to need sane people who didn’t jump ship to help them back to smart positions.

I disagree.

I think Not-Romney is going to shove more coal in the fire and ride straight into Democratic Landslide Junction.

Until the GOP can look itself in the mirror and say “we tried to shift ourselves right as far as we could and it didn’t work, we need to start shifting left” there’s no hope for sanity.

Given how Romney’s numbers seem content to rest around 25% once the crazies can finally unite behind one candidate he’ll steamroll Mittens and go onto get likewise crushed in the general election, only then can the healing begin.

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:14:40pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don’t hate them. I read them to see what progressives are talking about. I do the same thing with Hot Air. It’s called learning.

Heh. I’ve recently perused the comments at HA for the first time in a long while. They don’t seem nearly as wingnutty as I remember them being.

Not an endorsement, BTW. Just an observation.

185 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:14:56pm

re: #174 windsagio

they’re people that parts of LGF have an oldschool beef with though.

Yeah, I get that KT and even Charles have pretty rocky histories with DKos. I actually find myself agreeing with their views more often than not, but when I disagree, it’s pretty vehement. I’m not gonna trash the whole blog, but the community there is just too far-left and homogeneous to really appeal to me.

186 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:15:10pm

re: #153 albusteve

to hell with your dings…like I give a shit

Quite concur.

187 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:15:14pm

re: #179 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I don’t think of politics as being like dating.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:15:28pm

re: #177 publicityStunted

Not a valid comparison at all IMO. Not to be presumptuous, but I highly, highly doubt you’d still support the Democrats if they legitimized someone like Cynthia McKinney the way the GOP legitimizes Ron Paul.

Probably not, but I’m not having to make that choice.

189 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:16:13pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Ah, thanks, I didn’t catch that. I thought they were just being clever trying to get around some of Kos’ rules.
Well, that’s certainly more hopeful than I first thought. There’s a bit of a pie fight in the comments but it looks like the tide is turning. Progressives are starting to wake up, glad to see it. BTW, it looks like the wheels have come off the OWS bandwagon. Diaries about rapists and child molesters at OWS and bitching about the anti-Obama sentiment. I think it might be game over. The radicals overplayed their hand if progressives aren’t buying it anymore.

Heh, and here I thought I misunderstood your initial post.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:16:15pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

You also don’t self identify as a “slave to the Party,” do you?

Perhaps, ‘dyed in the wool’ would be the better phrase.

191 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:16:17pm

re: #184 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. I’ve recently perused the comments at HA for the first time in a long while. They don’t seem nearly as wingnutty as I remember them being.

Not an endorsement, BTW. Just an observation.

They’ve calmed down a bit since the Tea Party died out and Glenn Beck went off the air.

192 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:16:23pm

re: #185 Atlas Fails

naturally you take part in blogs whose cultures you like :D

That’s what keeps LGF relatively interesting though, its culture has been in a state of transition for the last 4 years (and still is!)

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:16:37pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think of politics as being like dating.

Of course not. In dating, you usually get flowers and a dinner first.
/couldn’t help myself.

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:17:00pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

They’ve calmed down a bit since the Tea Party died out and Glenn Beck went off the air.

Lack of things to throw tomatoes at?

195 BongCrodny  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:17:22pm

I’m starting to rethink that whole “it would be better for the sake of the Presidency if it were Obama versus Romney” thing.

196 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:17:37pm

Tomatoes are expensive.

197 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:17:59pm

re: #183 jamesfirecat

I disagree.

I think Not-Romney is going to shove more coal in the fire and ride straight into Democratic Landslide Junction.

Until the GOP can look itself in the mirror and say “we tried to shift ourselves right as far as we could and it didn’t work, we need to start shifting left” there’s no hope for sanity.

Given how Romney’s numbers seem content to rest around 25% once the crazies can finally unite behind one candidate he’ll steamroll Mittens and go onto get likewise crushed in the general election, only then can the healing begin.

James, the thing to understand is that those who want “not Mitt” are just about out of time. Once the primaries actually get going, they’ll be racing the clock to compete in enough states to win. I don’t think they can do it. I think Romney’s advantage in money and organization will carry the day.

198 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:18:16pm

re: #195 BongCrodny

I’m starting to rethink that whole “it would be better for the sake of the Presidency if it were Obama versus Romney” thing.

I still don’t think any Republican has a remotely reasonable chance of beating Obama, Romney’s just the one who makes it look closest to an actual race.

199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:18:32pm

Today I met a man who’s a gun nut (hundred guns around the house, thousands of rounds of ammo. Used to work for VOA as a reporter.

That sets up the context.

He said Ron Paul is a crazy extremist.

I shit you not.

200 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:19:12pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think of politics as being like dating.

Best metaphor I could think of at the time. The point is, if you’re consigned to wait for the party to realize its mistake and come to its senses, then you better grab a Snickers, because you’re not going anywhere for awhile. Only with a Paul or perhaps a Santorum nomination could the GOP get the ass-whipping it needs to return to speaking terms with reality. Newt or Romney, then they’re going to conclude as a party that they weren’t “far enough to the Right” and go even further off the rails.

201 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:19:13pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course not. In dating, you usually get flowers and a dinner first.
/couldn’t help myself.

LOL

202 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:19:25pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Ah, thanks, I didn’t catch that. I thought they were just being clever trying to get around some of Kos’ rules.
Well, that’s certainly more hopeful than I first thought. There’s a bit of a pie fight in the comments but it looks like the tide is turning. Progressives are starting to wake up, glad to see it. BTW, it looks like the wheels have come off the OWS bandwagon. Diaries about rapists and child molesters at OWS and bitching about the anti-Obama sentiment. I think it might be game over. The radicals overplayed their hand if progressives aren’t buying it anymore.

I gotta say, you were right and I was wrong about OWS. I got swept up in the momentum of a genuine left-wing political movement focusing on wealth disparity, but when that focus faded and all that remained were 4Chan douchebags and AdBusters, I realized that they were just too radical and, in the case of Anonymous, too malicious for me.

203 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:20:12pm

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

Lack of things to throw tomatoes at?

There’s a lack of that ‘wookie’ bullshit, and at least a handful or more of left-leaning participants in the comments.

One comment I read which cracked me up:

“If saying something stupid here got you banned, this place would be a ghost town”.

204 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:20:22pm

re: #200 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Best metaphor I could think of at the time. The point is, if you’re consigned to wait for the party to realize its mistake and come to its senses, then you better grab a Snickers, because you’re not going anywhere for awhile. Only with a Paul or perhaps a Santorum nomination could the GOP get the ass-whipping it needs to return to speaking terms with reality. Newt or Romney, then they’re going to conclude as a party that they weren’t “far enough to the Right” and go even further off the rails.

I think you’re wrong, people are doubling down. A Paul/Santorum loss would just convince them that there was massive voter fraud.

205 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:20:30pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think of politics as being like dating.

It’s not dating, it’s fucking, and your girlfriend is with Ron Jeremy right now.

206 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:20:47pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

James, the thing to understand is that those who want “not Mitt” are just about out of time. Once the primaries actually get going, they’ll be racing the clock to compete in enough states to win. I don’t think they can do it. I think Romney’s advantage in money and organization will carry the day.

We’ll see, I openly admit that I know next to nothing about the mechanics of how the GOP presidential primary works (and I know about the same for the democratic one honestly) so Romney may manage to win despite being a worse position by having a better grasp of the rules so to speak.

That said one thing I am confident on, Romney winning the primary and losing the general will only make the GOP shift right harder, do you agree with me on that prediction Dark?

207 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:21:23pm

re: #198 windsagio

I still don’t think any Republican has a remotely reasonable chance of beating Obama, Romney’s just the one who makes it look closest to an actual race.

haha!…Bo’s got the noids dude…and a billion dollars

208 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:21:46pm

re: #198 windsagio

I still don’t think any Republican has a remotely reasonable chance of beating Obama, Romney’s just the one who makes it look closest to an actual race.

I don’t share your optimism, given that the idiocracy is upon us :(

This is the kind of evil, life-endangering stupidity the GOP helped create. And anyone who still votes for these scumblobs enables it.

209 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:21:50pm

re: #199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


Wish I’d have been there.

210 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:21:53pm

re: #199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Today I met a man who’s a gun nut (hundred guns around the house, thousands of rounds of ammo. Used to work for VOA as a reporter.

That sets up the context.

He said Ron Paul is a crazy extremist.

I shit you not.

Hunter S. Thompson?

211 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:22:19pm

re: #138 albusteve

our two political parties are akin to the Crips and Bloods…where’s mine?…I’m no stooge for any party

what would an albusteve platform look like?

212 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:23:07pm

re: #183 jamesfirecat

Until the GOP can look itself in the mirror and say “we tried to shift ourselves right as far as we could and it didn’t work, we need to start shifting left” there’s no hope for sanity.

I posted this Daniel Henninger piece from the WSJ this morning:

…if the former Massachusetts governor doesn’t reach out pretty soon to the Paul-Perry-Bachmann Republican protest voters, he may never get them. The longer he waits, the more pressure will build for a third-party challenge that will cost him the election. That it would be led by a Ron Paul or Donald Trump is irrelevant to why these people would vote third party—or stay home.
[Link: online.wsj.com…]

He thinks Romney needs to go even further to the right.

213 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:23:14pm

re: #205 darthstar

It’s not dating, it’s fucking, and your girlfriend is with Ron Jeremy right now.

ouch!…anyway, he got his

214 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:23:30pm

re: #47 chunkymonkey

Sure. And foreign aid, foreign military bases, UN funding, corporate welfare, etc.

Sounds like a Paulbot.

215 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:23:48pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps, ‘dyed in the wool’ would be the better phrase.

Yeah well, Dark actually just self identified as a slave. That’s the question he said yes to. In that context the term gang mentality is rather a compliment, as it implies free will and the ability to change status.

216 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:23:53pm

re: #204 windsagio

I think you’re wrong, people are doubling down. A Paul/Santorum loss would just convince them that there was massive voter fraud.

It would have to be a close race for that to be convincing to the party as a whole, and I don’t see either coming that close in the national election. Maybe Santorum, but a Paul nomination would lead the party to a loss not seen in politics since Mondale.

Right now, the GOP’s biggest nightmare seems to be that Paul wins Iowa but craps out in the later primaries, then goes third party rather than bowing out. They’ve all got images of Ross Perot dancing in their heads right now.

217 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:24:33pm

re: #202 Atlas Fails

I gotta say, you were right and I was wrong about OWS. I got swept up in the momentum of a genuine left-wing political movement focusing on wealth disparity, but when that focus faded and all that remained were 4Chan douchebags and AdBusters, I realized that they were just too radical and, in the case of Anonymous, too malicious for me.

See, I view OWS a bit differently. While it has now, best as I can tell, collapsed in upon its own decentralized, disorganized, unfocused self, I do think that it provided a service to the country in helping pull income and wealth disparity into the discussion at a time when it was being dominated by deficit and debt talk. I see this as a positive, even if OWS itself seems to have made itself irrelevant.

218 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:24:50pm

re: #212 jaunte

How many flag pins will he need to wear on his lapel(s)?

219 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:24:58pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

but the guy you came with ain’t here no more

220 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:25:13pm

re: #205 darthstar

It’s not dating, it’s fucking, and your girlfriend is with Ron Jeremy right now.

Whatever.

221 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:25:14pm

re: #218 Amory Blaine

All 50 state pins should do it.

222 windsagio  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:26:13pm

re: #219 engineer dog

well he’s been gone since at least 1960. The GOP has been living on the fumes of a myth since at least Nixon.

223 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:26:20pm

re: #217 Simply Sarah

See, I view OWS a bit differently. While it has now, best as I can tell, collapsed in upon its own decentralized, disorganized, unfocused self, I do think that it provided a service to the country in helping pull income and wealth disparity into the discussion at a time when it was being dominated by deficit and debt talk. I see this as a positive, even if OWS itself seems to have made itself irrelevant.

If OWS will have any sort of positive legacy, it’s giving Obama something to champion with some weight behind it, namely helping the “99%” and characterizing the GOP as “the party of 1%.” I’ve seen more than a few folks on the web refer to Romney as “Mr. 1%.”

224 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:26:24pm

re: #212 jaunte

I posted this Daniel Henninger piece from the WSJ this morning:

He thinks Romney needs to go even further to the right.

At this point in the race it no longer is about what Romney says, it is about who he is, he hasn’t been able to change the narrative that he’s a moderate flip flopper, and I doubt he can do it soon enough for it to impact the primary regardless of what he says /does…

225 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:26:45pm

Not Taxachusetts and Taxifornia!!!111!!/

226 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:27:29pm

re: #217 Simply Sarah

I’m in this boat. They served a useful purpose, but they’re a month or two into irrelevancy if not outright harm to their own cause.

227 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:27:33pm

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

Lack of things to throw tomatoes at?

I think it was mostly just hysteria burn out. After years of freaking out about stuff that mostly wasn’t true I think they just became fatigued. I think the right may be returning to something resembling sanity although it’s going to take a while. Especially if the lefties get their shit together and Obama gets a second term the right is going to start to realize that they’re wasting their time and need to change course.

228 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:27:46pm

re: #217 Simply Sarah

See, I view OWS a bit differently. While it has now, best as I can tell, collapsed in upon its own decentralized, disorganized, unfocused self, I do think that it provided a service to the country in helping pull income and wealth disparity into the discussion at a time when it was being dominated by deficit and debt talk. I see this as a positive, even if OWS itself seems to have made itself irrelevant.

Fair points. I am thankful that they turned the talk from austerity to wealth disparity, but the movement itself pretty much devolved into a hodgepodge of far-left causes like Bradley Manning and INDEFINITE DETENTION OF AMERICAN CITIZENS!!! KT saw all that coming, and for that I give him props.

229 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:27:57pm

re: #202 Atlas Fails

I gotta say, you were right and I was wrong about OWS. I got swept up in the momentum of a genuine left-wing political movement focusing on wealth disparity, but when that focus faded and all that remained were 4Chan douchebags and AdBusters, I realized that they were just too radical and, in the case of Anonymous, too malicious for me.

The “far (left or right)” people almost always end up running the movement, mostly because they are the most committed. They feel the most strongly about the issues in question and tend to simply outlast more moderate persons.

230 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:28:07pm

re: #223 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

“I am the 1%”

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:28:38pm

re: #227 Killgore Trout

I think it was mostly just hysteria burn out. After years of freaking out about stuff that mostly wasn’t true I think they just became fatigued. I think the right may be returning to something resembling sanity although it’s going to take a while. Especially if the lefties get their shit together and Obama gets a second term the right is going to start to realize that they’re wasting their time and need to change course.

From your lips to God’s ear…I don’t know. I think the craziness is burning brightly.

232 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:28:48pm

Now then, time to go and get some milk and maybe take a nap (I probably won’t).

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:28:57pm

re: #210 Atlas Fails

Hunter S. Thompson?

Nah.. the guy’s a Republican, doesn’t like President Obama (“He’s a Socialist!”) Is ready for the coming Civil War in America and all that.

And he thinks Ron Paul’s an extremist nut.

234 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:29:22pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you pick and choose between the parties, you end up just looking like a flip-flopper. I’m a believer in picking your faction and staying with it for the long haul.

Bullshit…if you vote your conscience, using logic and reason, who cares about other people thinking you’re a “flip-flopper”? The only reason anyone would get riled up about that is if changes in positions didn’t make any damned sense or they were strictly to pander, like what we see with Romney; that sort of criticism is justifiable.

D_F, I know you’re not a stupid man and that you are capable of using logic and reason; why give your votes to a party that is openly courting and promoting anti-reason/anti-logic candidates that are also openly pandering to xenophobes and bigots?

To paraphrase Reagan, I haven’t left the GOP, the GOP left me; I’ll not vote for another GOP candidate if I can help it until they get their act together and give the boot to all of those unsavory characters.

235 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:29:31pm

re: #202 Atlas Fails

I gotta say, you were right and I was wrong about OWS. I got swept up in the momentum of a genuine left-wing political movement focusing on wealth disparity, but when that focus faded and all that remained were 4Chan douchebags and AdBusters, I realized that they were just too radical and, in the case of Anonymous, too malicious for me.

That’s very gracious of you. Cheers!

236 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:29:57pm

re: #227 Killgore Trout

I think it was mostly just hysteria burn out. After years of freaking out about stuff that mostly wasn’t true I think they just became fatigued. I think the right may be returning to something resembling sanity although it’s going to take a while. Especially if the lefties get their shit together and Obama gets a second term the right is going to start to realize that they’re wasting their time and need to change course.

popularity for the Tea Party has crashed btw…even in districts that put them in office, according to Pew

237 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:31:01pm

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

From your lips to God’s ear…I don’t know. I think the craziness is burning brightly.

I think that, in some ways, we’re seeing the last hurrah of the crazies in Iowa. They’ve started to coalesce around Paul and if he burns out in the primaries or even goes third party, then that’ll be the beginning of the end. And if they cost the GOP the Senate, then no amount of tea-scented greenbacks will convince the leadership to keep betting on a losing hand.

238 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:31:08pm

re: #217 Simply Sarah

I’m never sure with things like that whether they were the wave or the chip of wood on the wave. Similar things had been tried before. Why it happened at that moment may just be a case of it was happening when the critical level was reached. The GOP made it really, really, really clear that they’re siding with the moneyed interests.

So was OWS a cause, or a symptom? No clue. As I figured, from the start, as an organism it had a fatal flaw that it was composed of voters and ideological non-voters, and there’s very little those two groups can agree on that will have any effect. Now it’s dwindled to the fragmentary die-hards, but the national conversation is still about wealth inequality.

One of the reasons I think it was just the thing that happened to be there was the really dumbness of the camping out overnight part. I mean, you couldn’t devise a way better to cause logistical problems, have discipline problems, etc. But because you could stay there, it didn’t require anything to do to participate. You didn’t have to go lobby, or campaign, or all those boring things. You could just show up and you were part of it.

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:31:34pm

re: #228 Atlas Fails

Sometimes it’s easier to derp at someone pointing out flaws than it is to actually examine those flaws. And KT has weathered more than one storm of derp.

240 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:31:45pm

re: #233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nah.. the guy’s a Republican, doesn’t like President Obama (“He’s a Socialist!) Is ready for the coming Civil War in America and all that.

And he thinks Ron Paul’s an extremist nut.

Um, you DO realize he has been dead for the best part of 7 years now, right?

241 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:32:05pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

If I were in his place, I’d have lied too.

….as he has done all along. Is that what you are excusing, in this particular place?

242 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:32:49pm

re: #240 bratwurst

Um, you DO realize he has been dead for the best part of 7 years now, right?

Does that make him ineligible to vote?

243 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:33:34pm

re: #242 sattv4u2

Does that make him ineligible to vote?

Not in Chicago.

/

244 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:33:49pm

re: #242 sattv4u2

Does that make him ineligible to vote?

depends, if he has the right picture ID.

245 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:33:56pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

James, the thing to understand is that those who want “not Mitt” are just about out of time. Once the primaries actually get going, they’ll be racing the clock to compete in enough states to win. I don’t think they can do it. I think Romney’s advantage in money and organization will carry the day.

A month ago you were one of those “not Mitt” people. You said his dishonest ads and history of flip flopping were turning you against him. Then Gingrich attacked the judiciary and that pissed you off, rightly. So are you back to supporting Romney or what, and if so how do you reconcile your earlier valid objections?

Maybe it all comes down to self identifying as a slave.

246 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:34:02pm

Meanwhile, Andrew “Big Lies’ Breitbart is still flogging the sexual violence meme to tar the whole of OWS. While the fact that such assault occurred is horrid, to blame the movement for those attacks, rather than the men who committed them is entirely unfair. But that’s only to be excepted from the grotesque liar that is Breitbart. So he can take his “The Tent of the Unknown Rapist”, remove said tent’s poles, and then stick said poles right up his ass.

247 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:34:35pm

re: #240 bratwurst

Um, you DO realize he has been dead for the best part of 7 years now, right?

Yeah… You just gave me an opening to tell the story further.

He had a foreign accent, but would not tell me where the accent was from.

An odd duck, but perceptive on the Paul thingie.

248 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:35:32pm

re: #199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Today I met a man who’s a gun nut (hundred guns around the house, thousands of rounds of ammo. Used to work for VOA as a reporter.

That sets up the context.

He said Ron Paul is a crazy extremist.

I shit you not.

Takes one to know one, I suppose.

249 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:35:42pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

Sometimes it’s easier to derp at someone pointing out flaws than it is to actually examine those flaws. And KT has weathered more than one storm of derp.

Very true. I would like to make one thing clear though: my views on wealth disparity and other issues have not changed since I disavowed Occupy, I just realized that Occupy had kind of gone off a cliff.

250 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:35:50pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

The “far (left or right)” people almost always end up running the movement, mostly because they are the most committed. They feel the most strongly about the issues in question and tend to simply outlast more moderate persons.

Kind of. I think the original organizers never really relinquished control over the movement despite the decentralized window dressing. However, I think there’s something more primordial going on. Liberals were almost uncontrollably attracted to OWS just like conservatives just couldn’t resist the appeal of the Tea Party. All the right buzzwords were used, all the endorphin inducing bling of drum circles or pantaloons were present. Once people start reacting on such a base level higher thinking goes out the window and people just start falling back on their respective political instincts right from the brain stem. It becomes group think and quickly devolves into radicalism.

251 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:35:59pm

re: #245 goddamnedfrank

A month ago you were one of those “not Mitt” people. You said his dishonest ads and history of flip flopping were turning you against him. Then Gingrich attacked the judiciary and that pissed you off, rightly. So are you back to supporting Romney or what, and if so how do you reconcile your earlier valid objections?

Maybe it all comes down to self identifying as a slave.

Actually, I would say “loyalist”. not “slave”. I accepted Steve’s definition because I did not wish to debate it with him.

252 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:37:02pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon


The people bringing up the crimes at OWS don’t actually give a shit about the crime themselves. We have tons and tons of the sort of crimes that happened at OWS happening all the time, at colleges, churches, and by the police. Anecdotes are just anecdotes.

253 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:37:39pm

Looks like Lil Kim’s funeral cortege included some brand new 1973 Limos.

254 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:37:47pm

re: #240 bratwurst

Um, you DO realize he has been dead for the best part of 7 years now, right?

Thompson? Don’t remind me! He may have been definitely was a kook, but he was a brilliant kook, dammit!

255 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:38:01pm

re: #249 Atlas Fails

Very true. I would like to make one thing clear though: my views on wealth disparity and other issues have not changed since I disavowed Occupy, I just realized that Occupy had kind of gone off a cliff.

I am sympathetic to concerns about income disparity and the like, I’ve just never been on the OWS bandwagon.

256 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:38:40pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

Kind of. I think the original organizers never really relinquished control over the movement despite the decentralized window dressing. However, I think there’s something more primordial going on. Liberals were almost uncontrollably attracted to OWS just like conservatives just couldn’t resist the appeal of the Tea Party. All the right buzzwords were used, all the endorphin inducing bling of drum circles or pantaloons were present. Once people start reacting on such a base level higher thinking goes out the window and people just start falling back on their respective political instincts right from the brain stem. It becomes group think and quickly devolves into radicalism.

The far end of a party often has great appeal to the people further to the center. Often the far end shows them the world as they’d like it to be, and that overrides the good sense that normally keeps them closer to the center by reminding them why their ideals would not work if carried to the fringes extremes.

257 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:38:53pm

re: #247 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah… You just gave me an opening to tell the story further.

He had a foreign accent, but would not tell me where the accent was from.

An odd duck, but perceptive on the Paul thingie.

Sorry I misunderstood…was afraid that you still had Hunter Thompson alive in your head or something. I saw you mention how much you drive per year, that could cause anyone to seek out an imaginary friend!

258 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:39:04pm

re: #253 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looks like Lil Kim’s funeral cortege included some brand new 1973 Limos.

And make sure you stand in a straight line or you will be airbrushed out!

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

,,,,,when a handful of dawdlers messed up those regimented lines, they were eliminated. From the photo, that is.

259 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:40:13pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

LOL OLDMAN!!! DERP!!
/kidding

260 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:40:26pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I would say “loyalist”. not “slave”. I accepted Steve’s definition because I did not wish to debate it with him.

So, when you voiced these rational concerns about Romney’s dishonest ads and history of purely political expedience and flip flopping, it’s all just window dressing? It seems like Romney’s integrity was never actually a real concern of yours, except in terms of your own sense of gamesmanship, in as much as you briefly thought Gingrich might be a more electable candidate. Now that you’re back to being stuck with Romney those concerns seem to no longer matter.

261 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:40:40pm

re: #253 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looks like Lil Kim’s funeral cortege included some brand new 1973 Limos.

Yeah, to which they strapped his coffin to the top of one and a huge picture of “Dear Leader” was erected atop another. Strangest damned procession I’ve ever seen.

262 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:40:53pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

Liberals were almost uncontrollably attracted to OWS just like conservatives just couldn’t resist the appeal of the Tea Party. All the right buzzwords were used, all the endorphin inducing bling of drum circles or pantaloons were present. Once people start reacting on such a base level higher thinking goes out the window and people just start falling back on their respective political instincts right from the brain stem. It becomes group think and quickly devolves into radicalism.

But in this analysis, you overlook that the problems the Tea Party was convening to protest were largely fictitious, while the ones that the Occupy movement was protesting were, when articulated, largely real. The divide between rich and poor really is a huge societal problem. The way the workforce has changed really has rent huge harm on our culture. Etc.

It’s a very important distinction. The reason why people are there matters. You can’t just hand-wave it and claim they’re all just sheeple, man.

And Occupy doesn’t appear to have radicalized much of anyone. I don’t see any major changes happening in the Democratic political world because of Occupy, no radical agendas like the kind the Tea Party were able to foist on the GOP.

You know, two things are almost never balanced with each other. I do not get the incessant desire to compare two things and say that they’re alike. The default state of things in this world is being different, not the same.

263 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:41:18pm

re: #258 sattv4u2

Yeah, I saw that.

“Let’s photoshop something!”
“Why?”
“Uh… Let’s photoshop something!”

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:43:27pm

re: #262 Obdicut

I’d say they’re both quit a bit alike, OWS and the TP, in that there is a garnish of a legitimate concern on a giant plate of conspiracy theories.

265 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:43:30pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

Kind of. I think the original organizers never really relinquished control over the movement despite the decentralized window dressing. However, I think there’s something more primordial going on. Liberals were almost uncontrollably attracted to OWS just like conservatives just couldn’t resist the appeal of the Tea Party. All the right buzzwords were used, all the endorphin inducing bling of drum circles or pantaloons were present. Once people start reacting on such a base level higher thinking goes out the window and people just start falling back on their respective political instincts right from the brain stem. It becomes group think and quickly devolves into radicalism.

You played a true neutral Druid in D&D didn’t you? This need to constantly insist that both sides are equally bad is amusing.

266 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:44:36pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

I’d say they’re both quit a bit alike, OWS and the TP, in that there is a garnish of a legitimate concern on a giant plate of conspiracy theories.

The conspiracy theories and general nuttiness were the foundation of the Tea Party in a way that is completely not the case for OWS.

267 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:44:54pm

Derp Storm!

268 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:45:07pm

Michelle Bachmann is the candidate with the extended interview on CNN today with Wolf Blitzer. She was just asked whether she would support Ron Paul if he got the Republican Party nomination, and flatly said that there is no way whatsoever that he would get the nomination. When pressed by Blitzer, she refused to give any support to Paul.

So, on this one small detail, at least she’s better than Mitt Romney.

269 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:45:33pm

re: #268 RadicalModerate

The women apparently has some principles, nutty though they may be.

270 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:46:14pm

re: #268 RadicalModerate

Michelle Bachmann is the candidate with the extended interview on CNN today with Wolf Blitzer. She was just asked whether she would support Ron Paul if he got the Republican Party nomination, and flatly said that there is no way whatsoever that he would get the nomination. When pressed by Blitzer, she refused to give any support to Paul.

So, on this one small detail, at least she’s better than Mitt Romney.

A loon, refusing to endorse a fellow loon. “May you live in interesting times,” indeed.

271 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:47:03pm

re: #266 erik_t

The conspiracy theories and general nuttiness were the foundation of the Tea Party in a way that is completely not the case for OWS.

If we go back to ‘06 or so, you are definitely right.

272 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:48:21pm

WS won that round…OWS should relocate to DC
idiots

273 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:48:26pm

re: #268 RadicalModerate

Michelle Bachmann is the candidate with the extended interview on CNN today with Wolf Blitzer. She was just asked whether she would support Ron Paul if he got the Republican Party nomination, and flatly said that there is no way whatsoever that he would get the nomination. When pressed by Blitzer, she refused to give any support to Paul.

So, on this one small detail, at least she’s better than Mitt Romney.

She may be a loathsome homophobe and theocrat, but she’s sincere, which is more than Willard can say.

274 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:49:01pm

Tea Party ‘06.

275 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:49:13pm

re: #270 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A loon, refusing to endorse a fellow loon.

i think of her more like a grackle, or maybe a cowbird

276 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:50:22pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

I’d say they’re both quit a bit alike, OWS and the TP, in that there is a garnish of a legitimate concern on a giant plate of conspiracy theories.

What “legitimate concern” did the astroturfed, Koch-created-and-funded TP ever have?

277 [deleted]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:51:22pm
278 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:52:06pm

re: #274 Slumbering Behemoth

Tea Party ‘06.

Ugh…lots of articles about rallies and support for Bradley Manning on that page. Any chance this dumbass joins Mumia and Peltier in the annals of stupid far-left causes?

279 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:52:45pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Derp Storm!


GHOSTORM!!!

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:52:48pm

re: #252 Obdicut

The people bringing up the crimes at OWS don’t actually give a shit about the crime themselves. We have tons and tons of the sort of crimes that happened at OWS happening all the time, at colleges, churches, and by the police. Anecdotes are just anecdotes.

I think that’s too sweeping a statement. People who didn’t like OWS did focus on those issues, perhaps some of them hypocritically. However, I still cherish the night that I was told that worrying about a man being shot to death in downtown Oakland was just trying to discredit OWS, and was lectured by an out-of-towner about how dangerous he’s heard the neighborhood is.

A couple of Angry Black Lady’s contributors have been pretty annoyed at the number of people who seemed to discover police brutality for the first time when OWS ran in trouble. Is it fair to say that these people ‘don’t give a shit about police brutality itself’?

281 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:52:54pm

re: #276 publicityStunted

The Muslim that usurped the POTUS was going to impose sharia laws on us and indoctrinate our children with the ways of the Trotskyites.

You silly goose.
//

282 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:53:34pm

re: #216 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It would have to be a close race for that to be convincing to the party as a whole, and I don’t see either coming that close in the national election. Maybe Santorum, but a Paul nomination would lead the party to a loss not seen in politics since Mondale.

Right now, the GOP’s biggest nightmare seems to be that Paul wins Iowa but craps out in the later primaries, then goes third party rather than bowing out. They’ve all got images of Ross Perot dancing in their heads right now.

I bet he doesn’t go 3rd Party, because Rand may be in line for a VP slot in ‘16, and Ron won’t want to burn his bridges with the GOP.

283 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:53:56pm

re: #276 publicityStunted

What “legitimate concern” did the astroturfed, Koch-created-and-funded TP ever have?

Middle class people being “taxed enough already”. Aside from that, total derp.

284 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:54:56pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that’s too sweeping a statement. People who didn’t like OWS did focus on those issues, perhaps some of them hypocritically. However, I still cherish the night that I was told that worrying about a man being shot to death in downtown Oakland was just trying to discredit OWS, and was lectured by an out-of-towner about how dangerous he’s heard the neighborhood is.

A couple of Angry Black Lady’s contributors have been pretty annoyed at the number of people who seemed to discover police brutality for the first time when OWS ran in trouble. Is it fair to say that these people ‘don’t give a shit about police brutality itself’?

Obdicut claims to know what people think

285 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:55:00pm

re: #273 Atlas Fails

She may be a loathsome homophobe and theocrat, but she’s sincere, which is more than Willard can say.

To quote David Weber again (just change ‘he’ to ‘she’ in your minds): “Yes, he’s a Simon-pure fanatic. But a fanatic is also, in his own twisted way, an honest man.”

That’s also a reasons loons sometimes win, and part of what (foolishly) drew me (back to*) Newt Gingrich: I admired what I thought was his sincerity.

*: In 1995-1998 I referred to myself as a “Gingrich Republican”.

286 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:55:36pm

re: #283 Slumbering Behemoth

Middle class people being “taxed enough already”.

At a time when overall tax rates were at their lowest ever? Nope, still derp. A fiction atop a lie served on a plate of platitudinous piffle.

287 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:56:11pm

re: #282 aagcobb

I bet he doesn’t go 3rd Party, because Rand may be in line for a VP slot in ‘16, and Ron won’t want to burn his bridges with the GOP.

Not really related to anything, but what kind of psycho names his kid after Ayn Rand? I guess the same kind that cashes in on paranoia, stupidity, and racism for over a decade and then lies about it. *Sigh* Really, Iowa?

288 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:56:53pm

re: #276 publicityStunted

What “legitimate concern” did the astroturfed, Koch-created-and-funded TP ever have?

The bank bailouts are a concern of both OWS and the TP. It’s a legitimate concern. For fiscal conservatives they were concerned about the size and reach of government. You might not agree (I don’t) but they did have concerns. You don’t have to agree to have a basic understanding of their world view. Otherwise your just left with a caricature impression based more on your imagination than the reality of your opponents opinion.

289 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:57:00pm

re: #282 aagcobb

I bet he doesn’t go 3rd Party, because Rand may be in line for a VP slot in ‘16, and Ron won’t want to burn his bridges with the GOP.

When Paul announced he wasn’t seeking reelection this year in order to “focus on his presidential campaign,” that was the first red flag that went up. The second has been his refusal so far to rule out a third party run.

290 Winny Spencer  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:57:14pm

re: #287 Atlas Fails

Not really related to anything, but what kind of psycho names his kid after Ayn Rand? I guess the same kind that cashes in on paranoia, stupidity, and racism for over a decade and then lies about it. *Sigh* Really, Iowa?

Don’t think he did, though. His real name is Randal.

291 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:57:30pm

re: #287 Atlas Fails

My right wing friend who dropped me after Obama won, her son has a Randian middle name. She’s pretty gosh darned proud of it, too.

292 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:57:46pm

As if the GOP circus isn’t already wild enough, a group in Iowa is encouraging people to “Vote rogue” next week and cast write in votes for Sarah Palin.

All I can say to that is…”Really?”

293 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:58:08pm

re: #286 publicityStunted

True as that may be, it does not make in an illegitimate concern.

294 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:58:29pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Derp Storm!

I’m sorry, you already used all your 3rd level spell slots casting Plant Growth and Summon Fertilizer.

295 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:58:51pm

re: #292 dragonfire1981

As if the GOP circus isn’t already wild enough, a group in Iowa is encouraging people to “Vote rogue” next week and cast write in votes for Sarah Palin.

All I can say to that is…”Really?”

It assumes they will be able spell her name correctly, too, which one cannot assume of a lot of TP supporters.

296 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:58:55pm

re: #291 prairiefire

That kind of thing usually backfires. He’ll probably become a social worker. Or a civil rights attorney.

297 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:59:22pm

re: #287 Atlas Fails

Not really related to anything, but what kind of psycho names his kid after Ayn Rand? I guess the same kind that cashes in on paranoia, stupidity, and racism for over a decade and then lies about it. *Sigh* Really, Iowa?

Iowa, looking for a candidate whose newsletter was described as a little over the top by a neo-nazi.

298 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 2:59:33pm

re: #290 Winny Spencer

Don’t think he did, though. His real name is Randal.

Huh, I could’ve sworn an acquaintance of mine (huge Paulian) told me he was named after Ayn. Must be coincidence, and yet another instance of a Paul supporter thinking he knows more than he actually does.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:00:04pm

re: #298 Atlas Fails

Huh, I could’ve sworn an acquaintance of mine (huge Paulian) told me he was named after Ayn. Must be coincidence, and yet another instance of a Paul supporter thinking he knows more than he actually does.

A lot of people assume it, but I think it is actually legend.

300 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:00:17pm

re: #296 Amory Blaine

That kind of thing usually backfires. He’ll probably become a social worker. Or a civil rights attorney.

I think he’s on a capitalist fast track with his farming. “What kind of future will I have with unknown regulation and massive national debt?”, to quote a 12 year old.

301 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:00:44pm

re: #103 talon_262

Horse hockey…Obama’s not blameless in the amount of money this country’s had to spend since he took office, but neither is Congress. What in the hell were they supposed to do, stand by while the country (and the world) sank deeper and deeper until the recession became a full-blown depression? I have a feeling the Obama would be damned if he did, damned if he didn’t do something with the stimulus, among other things.

Horse hockey yourself. Obviously congress is to blame, but the president has a veto for a reason. He’s the last check against this sort of recklessness.

As to your logic, it doesn’t hold water. For one, you can’t prove that the economy would be worse had we not spent any money on the so-called “stimulus” (ha I use “so-called” and scare quotes in reference to the same thing!). For two, next time you get your personal finances in a mess, try spending your way out. After all, it’s stimulus!

302 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:00:52pm

Is that Max Van Sydow voicing in Skyrim?

303 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:00:57pm

what i’m really wondering about now is this:

how gracelessly will the teabaggers accept the fact that mitt romney is being shoved down their throats?

304 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:01:02pm

re: #300 prairiefire

Well he does have the permanent victimhood shtick down. Too bad.

305 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:01:05pm

re: #294 goddamnedfrank

I’m sorry, you already used all your 3rd level spell slots casting Plant Growth and Summon Fertilizer.

Then I’ll use mine. [Dark_Falcon uses “change nic” to change Goddamnedfrank into ‘Frankfurter”]

/gamer geekage

306 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:01:12pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that’s too sweeping a statement. People who didn’t like OWS did focus on those issues, perhaps some of them hypocritically. However, I still cherish the night that I was told that worrying about a man being shot to death in downtown Oakland was just trying to discredit OWS, and was lectured by an out-of-towner about how dangerous he’s heard the neighborhood is.

A couple of Angry Black Lady’s contributors have been pretty annoyed at the number of people who seemed to discover police brutality for the first time when OWS ran in trouble. Is it fair to say that these people ‘don’t give a shit about police brutality itself’?

Yes, it works both ways. The macing and beatings were paid attention to because they were happening to the Occupy people, who were mostly white, educated, and able to get press time. I think it’s perfectly fair to say that those people don’t give a shit about police brutality itself if they never encountered the issue before. Some of them probably did, given that it is an issue that’s held as being of some import on the ‘left’.

And yeah, the Oakland shooting issue was also split both ways. I do think it was only reported on highly was because of the association with OWS. That doesn’t make the death less important, or dismiss-able.

307 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:01:15pm

re: #292 dragonfire1981

As if the GOP circus isn’t already wild enough, a group in Iowa is encouraging people to “Vote rogue” next week and cast write in votes for Sarah Palin.

All I can say to that is…”Really?”

I’d say Hell yes! We need a new clown in the car now that Cain is gone.

308 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:01:36pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

I don’t print my own currency. I am not a country. The specific financials of my household are quite dissimilar to how a nation operates.

Again.

309 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:02:16pm

re: #303 engineer dog

what i’m really wondering about now is this:

how gracelessly will the teabaggers accept the fact that mitt romney is being shoved down their throats?

Not very graciously at all. Read any of the right wing blog comments.

310 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:02:52pm

re: #302 prairiefire

Is that Max Van Sydow voicing in Skyrim?

It is indeed.

311 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:03:06pm

re: #296 Amory Blaine

That kind of thing usually backfires. He’ll probably become a social worker. Or a civil rights attorney.

I wanted to be social worker for a spell in high school, but my parents put a quick end to that. Probably for the better; I’m not sure I’m cut out for such a depressing job. Civil rights attorney? Well, I am hoping to get into law school…

312 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:03:22pm

re: #308 erik_t

I don’t print my own currency. I am not a country. The specific financials of my household are quite dissimilar to how a nation operates.

Again.

I am off to annex the kitchen! Power to the potato!

Laters all.

313 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:04:02pm

re: #303 engineer dog

what i’m really wondering about now is this:

how gracelessly will the teabaggers accept the fact that mitt romney is being shoved down their throats?

The general consensus I’ve been reading is “I’d rather have another four years of Obama than four years defending Romney.”

314 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:04:11pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

For two, next time you get your personal finances in a mess, try spending your way out. After all, it’s stimulus!

Equivocating personal household finance with government budgeting and spending is seriously flawed.

315 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:04:14pm

some Stevie Wonder
Superstition

Youtube Video
316 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:04:24pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

Then I’ll use mine. [Dark_Falcon uses “change nic” to change Goddamnedfrank into ‘Frankfurter”]

/gamer geekage

Shouldn’t that be Dr. Frank N. Furter?

317 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:04:27pm

re: #303 engineer dog

what i’m really wondering about now is this:

how gracelessly will the teabaggers accept the fact that mitt romney is being shoved down their throats?

This is what I hear out of the Romney quote on Ron Paul: it is mirroring his wishful thinking.

He desperately needs the right wing of his party to swallow their idealism and vote against Obama through him, rather than voting against Obama through a “true conservative” third-party candidate.

318 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:05:02pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

Horse hockey yourself. Obviously congress is to blame, but the president has a veto for a reason. He’s the last check against this sort of recklessness.

As to your logic, it doesn’t hold water. For one, you can’t prove that the economy would be worse had we not spent any money on the so-called “stimulus” (ha I use “so-called” and scare quotes in reference to the same thing!). For two, next time you get your personal finances in a mess, try spending your way out. After all, it’s stimulus!

Good rwnj knows those ebil librul economists are all lying when they say the stimulus added millions of jobs.

319 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:05:20pm

Look at this chart, and then go blather about how the “so-called stimulus” didn’t work.

320 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:05:26pm

re: #303 engineer dog

what i’m really wondering about now is this:

how gracelessly will the teabaggers accept the fact that mitt romney is being shoved down their throats?

It will be interesting to see. I think they’ve already kind of resigned themselves to it. They won’t admit it openly yet but I think most of them realize that he’s the only choice.

321 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:05:43pm

re: #311 Atlas Fails

My wife majored in social work. Impossible to find work in that field.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:06:57pm

re: #313 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The general consensus I’ve been reading is “I’d rather have another four years of Obama than four years defending Romney.”

I’m OK with that, myself.

323 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:07:01pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

Horse hockey yourself. Obviously congress is to blame, but the president has a veto for a reason. He’s the last check against this sort of recklessness.

As to your logic, it doesn’t hold water. For one, you can’t prove that the economy would be worse had we not spent any money on the so-called “stimulus” (ha I use “so-called” and scare quotes in reference to the same thing!). For two, next time you get your personal finances in a mess, try spending your way out. After all, it’s stimulus!

And how exactly do you drag yourself out of debt by matching budget cuts with income cuts? Seriously, when you’re in deep financial debt, do you take a voluntary pay cut and unpaid vacation time while simultaneously canceling your health insurance and slashing your food budget in half?

324 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:07:05pm

re: #321 Amory Blaine

My wife majored in social work. Impossible to find work in that field.

Work that pays a decent wage. Sorry about that.

325 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:07:33pm

“The Charm’d Sea burned away, a still and awful red.” -Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Glad they caught the dirtbags dumping the dye, but that image gets me.

326 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:07:48pm

re: #311 Atlas Fails

I wanted to be social worker for a spell in high school, but my parents put a quick end to that. Probably for the better; I’m not sure I’m cut out for such a depressing job. Civil rights attorney? Well, I am hoping to get into law school…

Good God, don’t do that. You’ll be lucky to find a job making enough money to make your student loan payments.

327 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:08:08pm

re: #249 Atlas Fails

Very true. I would like to make one thing clear though: my views on wealth disparity and other issues have not changed since I disavowed Occupy, I just realized that Occupy had kind of gone off a cliff.

Care to clarify what kind of cliff? I thought the problem was that they didn’t have a clearly level ground.

328 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:08:11pm

re: #316 talon_262

Shouldn’t that be Dr. Frank N. Furter?

Heh.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:08:31pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

“The Charm’d Sea burned away, a still and awful red.” -Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Glad they caught the dirtbags dumping the dye, but that image gets me.

Very…Biblical…that image.

330 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:09:35pm

Magical and magnificent self-parody.

8 year old asks: “Is it hard running for president? “Yes and no,” Romney says. “Sorry. That sounds like a politician.”

331 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:10:02pm

re: #317 ralphieboy

This is what I hear out of the Romney quote on Ron Paul: it is mirroring his wishful thinking.

He desperately needs the right wing of his party to swallow their idealism and vote against Obama through him, rather than voting against Obama through a “true conservative” third-party candidate.

It’s not so much that Romney needs the RWNJs to “swallow their idealism”, because I hear no idealism from them, it’s all hate, distrust, and discord. Romney is so desperate to make the RWNJs forget that he’s a Mormon, he’ll say anything; I still say that really hardcore RWNJs will never vote for him or Huntsman, no matter if one of them winds up being the best (or only) shot at Obama.

332 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:10:20pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

An image right out of a horror movie.

The eerie sheen on the river lasted for nearly two days before local government officials managed to track down the source of pollutant: an illegal workshop dumping red dye into the city’s storm water pipe network connecting the river.

In Ron Paul land, the private sector would correct this problem by eventually putting that workshop out of business.

333 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:11:01pm

re: #331 talon_262

It’s not so much that Romney needs the RWNJs to “swallow their idealism”, because I hear no idealism from them, it’s all hate, distrust, and discord. Romney is so desperate to make the RWNJs forget that he’s a Mormon, he’ll say anything; I still say that really hardcore RWNJs will never vote for him or Huntsman, no matter if they’re the best shot at Obama.

“swallow their rigid fundamentalism” might have been better than “swallow their idealism”…

334 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:11:26pm

re: #332 jaunte

An image right out of a horror movie.

In Ron Paul GOP land, the private sector would correct this problem by eventually putting that workshop out of business.

They all want to get rid of the EPA.

335 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:12:05pm

re: #332 jaunte

An image right out of a horror movie.

In Ron Paul land, the private sector would correct this problem by eventually putting that workshop out of business.

At which point the directors would pull the ripcord on their golden parachutes and come away with millions…

336 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:13:05pm

I just ran across this, though it’s a couple weeks old. “The Avengers” may not be out as a movie till the summer of 2012, but it looks like Iran may get a preview if they try something funny:

New Armed Stealth Drone Heads to Afghanistan (And Maybe Iran, Too)

The U.S. Air Force is sending a single copy of a brand-new stealth drone to Afghanistan. Only maybe not just Afghanistan.

Officially, the General Atomics-made Avenger — a sleek, jet-powered upgrade of the iconic armed Predator and Reaper — is heading to Afghanistan as a combat-capable “test asset.” The Air Force said in a statement that it loves how the Avenger’s “internal weapons bay and four hardpoints on each wing,” will give it “greater flexibility and will accommodate a large selection of next generation sensor and weapons payloads,” as reported by Zach Rosenberg at Flightglobal.

Problem is, you don’t really need those things in Afghanistan. Internal weapons bays, which hide the radar signatures of bombs and missiles, are for stealth: most warplanes don’t have them. And it’s not like the Taliban has been firing radar-guided missiles at NATO aircraft. Besides, there are already dozens of armed drones in Afghanistan. One more isn’t going to make much of a difference.

Which begs the question: Is the 41-foot-long Avenger really meant for Afghanistan? Or is it destined to patrol over Afghanistan’s unruly neighbors, Iran and Pakistan, both of which do have radar-guided missiles? That was a job assigned to the Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel before one of those drones crashed in Iran two weeks ago. We’re sure the Air Force has a few more RQ-170s to throw at Iran and Pakistan. After all, the elusive ‘bots have been spotted in Afghanistan, South Korea and Japan. But the Avenger, which debuted just two years ago, is newer and more capable than the Sentinel, which is widely believed to be a product of the early 2000s.

The Avenger reportedly carries a ground-mapping radar and the same ultra-sophisticated cameras as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, making it a perfect candidate for quietly snooping above, say, suspected nuclear facilities or terrorist camps guarded by air-defense radars and missiles. And for a psychological impact, there’s nothing like an advanced, armed stealth drone to put a dent in Iran’s swagger after Tehran captured an apparently intact RQ-170.

337 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:13:14pm

re: #335 ralphieboy

At which point the directors would pull the ripcord on their golden parachutes and come away with millions…

While the workers get shit and lose their jobs when the muckety-mucks in charge sell off or liquidate the company.

338 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:13:36pm

re: #326 aagcobb

Good God, don’t do that. You’ll be lucky to find a job making enough money to make your student loan payments.

I’ve actually managed to save enough to keep my post-law school debt from being too huge. Realistically, I’ll probably apply for a job at a public defender or D.A.’s office in the city, and if that doesn’t work out, go rural.

339 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:14:24pm

re: #337 talon_262

While the workers get shit and lose their jobs when the muckety-mucks in charge sell off or liquidate the company.

that goes without saying. and they lose their pension plans, too…

340 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:14:38pm

re: #334 publicityStunted

They all want to get rid of the EPA.

Except Romney and Huntsman. I don’t think Santorum has expressed such a desire either, but I may be wrong.

341 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:14:56pm

re: #327 Naso Tang

Care to clarify what kind of cliff? I thought the problem was that they didn’t have a clearly level ground.

Reading the posts back further, I see the point you make, or think to make. Namely that OWS hasn’t morphed into a standard political platform, with all the trimmings.

IMHO, it doesn’t need to, nor should it. The point is that nobody would be talking about the wealth disparity issue in this country (comparable to, say Zimbabwe) if not for OWS, and the fact that the matter can get hundreds of thousands into the streets makes it every bit as valid as any other political cause; unwashed hippies included, or not.

342 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:15:04pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

Very…Biblical…that image.

or, there’s a line in macbeth:

“multitudinous seas incarnadine”

343 erik_t  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:15:15pm

re: #340 Dark_Falcon

I’m pretty sure Huntsman has explicitly called for the elimination of the EPA.

(edit: nope, just called for an end to their ‘regulatory reign of terror’)

344 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:17:21pm

interesting to see how posts repeat themselves

345 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:18:02pm

re: #341 Naso Tang

Reading the posts back further, I see the point you make, or think to make. Namely that OWS hasn’t morphed into a standard political platform, with all the trimmings.

IMHO, it doesn’t need to, nor should it. The point is that nobody would be talking about the wealth disparity issue in this country (comparable to, say Zimbabwe) if not for OWS, and the fact that the matter can get hundreds of thousands into the streets makes it every bit as valid as any other political cause; unwashed hippies included, or not.

imo, the problem is the exact opposite. When OWS was just vaguely protesting income inequality, I was behind them. When they drifted from that core message and started advocating for a myriad of far-left causes, I drifted from them.

346 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:18:22pm

re: #344 albusteve

interesting to see how posts repeat themselves

I’ve asked the same question of the same person a couple of times over the years.

347 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:19:03pm

I just love $3k software that’s $99 a month to maintain the Gold Level tech support where you have to email in an ‘issue’ (which occurs quite regularly when you’re trying to finish up work) and wait for a response.

I guess it costs more to be difficult and a pain in the ass. Maybe my business model is backwards too.

348 albusteve  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:19:11pm

it’s official…
Stevie Wonder is less popular than Ron Paul

Youtube Video
349 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:19:16pm

re: #339 ralphieboy

that goes without saying. and they lose their pension plans, too…

That’s how bankruptcy law works: The pension obligations are normally voided, as the filer can’t pay them. It’s a way to recognize that the business or municipality cannot pay what they owe. When that happens, the law states the order in which people and entities are paid and pension holders are not at the front of the line

Note: I’m stating the law, I’m not saying I approve of it.

350 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:19:19pm

re: #332 jaunte

An image right out of a horror movie.

In Ron Paul land, the private sector would correct this problem by eventually putting that workshop out of business.

Nah, in Paul-Land, the problem is dealt with by the locals all filing lawsuits and then getting bankrupted by the deep pockets of the company responsible. And any that succeed in fighting their suits to the end will wring from the company…an “apology” letter and a small financial payout along with a “feel-good” initiative from the company that woos back the public.

351 chunkymonkey  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:20:20pm

re: #318 aagcobb

Good rwnj knows those ebil librul economists are all lying when they say the stimulus added millions of jobs.

They’re not necessarily lying, but they are wrong. There is no way to prove how many jobs were or were not added because of the stimulus. Economics is pseudo-science as there’s no way to run a controlled experiment.

352 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:21:14pm

re: #343 erik_t

I’m pretty sure Huntsman has explicitly called for the elimination of the EPA.

(edit: nope, just called for an end to their ‘regulatory reign of terror’)

Well, saying the EPA has overreached in its regulations is not calling for it to be eliminated. Thank you for your diligence and honesty.

353 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:21:52pm

re: #345 Atlas Fails

I think it is naive to expect all movements to express themselves uniformly, but OWS still has a very clear and common denominator regardless of hanger on flakes. Your criticism is no different than those coming from the GOP (or the ones who discount the Tea Baggers simply because they have a few blatant racists among them).

354 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:22:22pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

Economics is pseudo-science…

In the Republican Party it’s sure viewed that way.

355 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:22:25pm

re: #350 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Don’t forget the gag order.

356 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:22:34pm

Oh dear. I’d vote for Ron Paul? Romney? Lord have mercy the whole world’s gone nuts.

357 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:22:49pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

They’re not necessarily lying, but they are wrong. There is no way to prove how many jobs were or were not added because of the stimulus. Economics is pseudo-science as there’s no way to run a controlled experiment.

By your own logic, you are wrong in your own certainty.

358 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:23:57pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

Economics is pseudo-science as there’s no way to run a controlled experiment.

That’s like saying english lit is pseudo-law school. It doesn’t make any sense unless you’re merely dismissing the study of economics. Which also doesn’t make any sense.

359 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:24:13pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

That doesn’t make it pseudo-science. Any science dealing with behavior is always going to have a problem with control groups. That one aspect doesn’t make or break whether or not something is science. Evolution, after all, wasn’t something Darwin could actually test, but it was still science.

360 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:24:20pm

re: #354 Atlas Fails

In the Republican Party it’s sure viewed that way.

Only when it goes against them.

361 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:24:27pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

They’re not necessarily lying, but they are wrong. There is no way to prove how many jobs were or were not added because of the stimulus. Economics is pseudo-science as there’s no way to run a controlled experiment.

Please explain to me how you can spend hundreds of billions of dollars without creating jobs. I’m all ears.

362 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:25:16pm

re: #14 Bubblehead II

“Mitt Romney takes the concept of “party loyalty” to a ridiculous extreme, and ends up saying Ron Paul would be a better President than Barack Obama.”

John Bolton doesn’t think so.

Ron Paul’s foreign policy worse than Obama’s, says John Bolton

Ron Paul’s the Howard Zinn of the Republican Party.

363 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:25:32pm

re: #353 Naso Tang

I think it is naive to expect all movements to express themselves uniformly, but OWS still has a very clear and common denominator regardless of hanger on flakes. Your criticism is no different than those coming from the GOP (or the ones who discount the Tea Baggers simply because they have a few blatant racists among them).

It’s true that a movement can’t be expected to weed out all the fringe hangers-on, but it looks to me like the inmates are running the OWS asylum.

If OWS ever gets back to promoting income disparity solutions, I might support it again. I just don’t see it happening.

364 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:25:39pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

They’re not necessarily lying, but they are wrong. There is no way to prove how many jobs were or were not added because of the stimulus. Economics is pseudo-science as there’s no way to run a controlled experiment.

So you’re certain that no jobs were created by declaring that economists are wrong because they can’t be certain that job were actually created.

Do you actually stop and proofread your own posts before you hit the “Post It” button?

365 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:25:50pm

re: #361 aagcobb

re: #351 chunkymonkey

Please explain to me how you can spend hundreds of billions of dollars without creating jobs. I’m all ears.

Ha ha, epic.

366 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:26:56pm

re: #361 aagcobb

re: #351 chunkymonkey

Please explain to me how you can spend hundreds of billions of dollars without creating jobs. I’m all ears.

In our system it is easier to earn billions of dollars by destroying jobs…

367 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:30:18pm

I always love how the same folks who declare confidently that “the government creates no jobs” will, without breaking stride, declare that we can’t cut the Pentagon’s budget because that will lead to job losses in the defense industry.

368 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:31:03pm

re: #367 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I always love how the same folks who declare confidently that “the government creates no jobs” will, without breaking stride, declare that we can’t cut the Pentagon’s budget because that will lead to job losses in the defense industry.

Some people loves their cognitive dissonance.

369 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:32:57pm

re: #368 talon_262

Some people loves their cognitive dissonance.

or their casually abysmal ignorance

370 BishopX  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:32:59pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

They’re not necessarily lying, but they are wrong. There is no way to prove how many jobs were or were not added because of the stimulus. Economics is pseudo-science as there’s no way to run a controlled experiment.

There’s actually a very good way of examining how the US economic policies stacked up over the last three years. The housing bubble in the US led to global financial crisis. Many countries got hit as hard as the US. Iceland, Spain, Ireland and Great Britain are good examples of this. All of th effected countries tried some sort of economic solution, whether it was austerity or stimulus or a combination of the two. By looking at the last three years of economic data it is fairly easy to get a side by side comparison about what worked and what didn’t. The US is by no means at the bottom of the heap, our economy is growing and our unemployment is dropping and the government is still standing. Great Britian has seen no drop in unemployment and consistantly weaker economic growth. What was the difference? The US had (and continues to have) a stimulus. Great Britian tried to cut it’s way out of a recession. Which didn’t work.

371 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:34:41pm

re: #367 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I always love how the same folks who declare confidently that “the government creates no jobs” will, without breaking stride, declare that we can’t cut the Pentagon’s budget because that will lead to job losses in the defense industry.

Hell, the only thing that’s been funnier of late has been the sudden hand-wringing over where all those vets returning from Iraq are going to find jobs in this economy.

372 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:36:46pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Given her record of dealing with the oil companies in Alaska, coupled to her husband and other family members who’d worked in oil drilling, Sarah Palin might actually be a decent choice for that job.

wow

373 Martinsmithy  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:37:04pm
But the clear message from Romney is that Ron Paul’s history of racism, antisemitism, paranoid conspiracy theories, and connections to extremist groups like the John Birch Society are less of a problem than a black man in the White House.

I disagree. First of all, Mitt Romney does not send out many clear messages - he is against many things and for the same things, as he has proven in his ignominious political career. He says he would vote for Ron Paul out of cynicism, not conviction. Secondly, Mitt Romney has never even implied that “a black man in the White House” is any kind of a problem, and to impute racist beliefs to Mitt Romney is far-fetched - you might as well claim that, since he was a teenage Mormon before that cult suddenly decided to allow blacks into its ranks, he’s a racist.

This is a feeble defense of Willard “Mitt” Romney. But I think you went a little too far in your criticism.

374 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:39:45pm

re: #362 Gus 802

Ron Paul’s the Howard Zinn of the Republican Party.

I can agree with that.

375 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:40:53pm

re: #373 Martinsmithy

I disagree. First of all, Mitt Romney does not send out many clear messages - he is against many things and for the same things, as he has proven in his ignominious political career. He says he would vote for Ron Paul out of cynicism, not conviction. Secondly, Mitt Romney has never even implied that “a black man in the White House” is any kind of a problem, and to impute racist beliefs to Mitt Romney is far-fetched - you might as well claim that, since he was a teenage Mormon before that cult suddenly decided to allow blacks into its ranks, he’s a racist.

This is a feeble defense of Willard “Mitt” Romney. But I think you went a little too far in your criticism.

It may have been a bit sensationalist, but if Mitt is publicly willing to say he’d vote for Paul (with all of Paul’s unsavory associations and history) if Paul ever got the nom over him, what else can you draw from it? Nothing good, I can tell you that.

As far as your “Mormonism is a cult” schtick, stick it in you ear.

376 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:40:58pm

re: #373 Martinsmithy

I disagree. First of all, Mitt Romney does not send out many clear messages - he is against many things and for the same things, as he has proven in his ignominious political career. He says he would vote for Ron Paul out of cynicism, not conviction. Secondly, Mitt Romney has never even implied that “a black man in the White House” is any kind of a problem, and to impute racist beliefs to Mitt Romney is far-fetched - you might as well claim that, since he was a teenage Mormon before that cult suddenly decided to allow blacks into its ranks, he’s a racist.

This is a feeble defense of Willard “Mitt” Romney. But I think you went a little too far in your criticism.

Agreed, but no upding for calling Mormonism a cult. I hate having to shoo away door-knockers as much as the next guy, and LDS definitely has some weird shit, but what religion doesn’t?

377 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:41:04pm

“the government creates no jobs”

i hear that when money is paid to perform work, that’s called a job

“but it’s all make-work”

repairing bridges is make work?

“well, they’re not real jobs because government jobs aren’t sustainable in the long term”

people don’t eat in the ‘long term’ - they eat every day

and how about you, soldier - your job isn’t real?

“well harrumph that’s different - government does some jobs well…”

how about all the money that the government spends employing many millions of people in private medical, construction, and defense hardware industries through the government spending that doesn’t create jobs, or creates temporary jobs that aren’t ‘sustainable’?

“brrummph mxtlplx majic free market fairy will save the world if you only believe in her!!!”

378 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:41:22pm

re: #373 Martinsmithy

Good points, but I cannot upding due to your calling Mormonism a “cult”.

379 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:41:46pm

re: #376 Atlas Fails

Agreed, but no upding for calling Mormonism a cult. I hate having to shoo away door-knockers as much as the next guy, and LDS definitely has some weird shit, but what religion doesn’t?

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Good points, but I cannot upding due to your calling Mormonism a “cult”.

GMTA

380 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:44:55pm

re: #351 chunkymonkey

Economics is pseudo-science

That WOULD explain why people pay attention to high school educated economic “experts” like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.

381 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:46:45pm

re: #380 bratwurst

That WOULD explain why people pay attention to high school educated economic “experts” like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.

Bill Gates didn’t graduate college either!!!

382 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:47:01pm

BBL

383 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:47:48pm

re: #381 Atlas Fails

Nah, he just made his money the old-fashioned way: He stole other people’s work and sold it as his own.

384 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:47:58pm

Heh…Romney stumped by an eight year old.
Image: RomneyKidTweet.jpg

385 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:52:03pm

The Koskid pie fight continues. This just made the rec list…
Don’t Pretend You Care About These Issues When Defending the President

Part of the reason the Occupy movement exists and are out in the streets is because of the massive failures of this Democratic administration and a Democratic Congress. This can’t be denied. However, because it can’t be denied there are certain implications going around in their defense by those who are in denial about this. They imply that what’s going on with Bradley Manning’s confinement and his sham of a trial doesn’t truly matter.
…
Now you could say these are third rail issues(but you don’t mind the payroll tax cut that threatens SS putting it into the deficit debate politically) and that the end justifies the disproportionate incarceration if you want, but don’t pretend the high horse you proclaim to brand has any merit whatsoever.

Occupy Wall Street FOREVER!

386 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:54:41pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

“don’t pretend the high horse you proclaim to brand”

Metaphors in Collision.

387 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:54:58pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

The Koskid pie fight continues. This just made the rec list…
Don’t Pretend You Care About These Issues When Defending the President

Not defending that diarist, but it’s pretty easy to make the rec’d list on Kos. The real ones to watch are those that make it to community spotlight status. Wow, I need to spend less time on the internet.

388 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:55:50pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

The Koskid pie fight continues. This just made the rec list…
Don’t Pretend You Care About These Issues When Defending the President

Rather stupid. This person actually thinks that Obama controls the UCMJ judicial process? Even if he could intervene he should. Obama’s making the right moves with Manning and despite what these 1 percenters* here think the overwhelming majority of Americans back the president on this.

*Ironic isn’t it? 1 percenter as in being a part of very minute fringe political movement.

389 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:56:26pm

re: #387 Atlas Fails

Not defending that diarist, but it’s pretty easy to make the rec’d list on Kos. The real ones to watch are those that make it to community spotlight status. Wow, I need to spend less time on the internet.

Aren’t those just selected by admins?

390 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:58:12pm

re: #388 Gus 802

Rather stupid. This person actually thinks that Obama controls the UCMJ judicial process? Even if he could intervene he should. Obama’s making the right moves with Manning and despite what these 1 percenters* here think the overwhelming majority of Americans back the president on this.

*Ironic isn’t it? 1 percenter as in being a part of very minute fringe political movement.

I think that’s why it was such a bad decision for OWS to join with Anon, wikileaks and Bradley Manning. It’s a deal breaker for most sane people.

392 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:59:24pm

re: #363 Atlas Fails

It’s true that a movement can’t be expected to weed out all the fringe hangers-on, but it looks to me like the inmates are running the OWS asylum.

If OWS ever gets back to promoting income disparity solutions, I might support it again. I just don’t see it happening.

It is not a political movement, it is a gut level protest, strong enough to come out of the closet. You expect too much.

393 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 3:59:50pm

re: #390 Killgore Trout

I think that’s why it was such a bad decision for OWS to join with Anon, wikileaks and Bradley Manning. It’s a deal breaker for most sane people.

Yes it is. Might work with a certain demographic but it won’t work with me.

394 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:00:42pm

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Aren’t those just selected by admins?

Nope…it has to do with how communist you are and your special relationship to Satan…that, and the ability to get readers to recommend your diary.

395 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:01:52pm

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Aren’t those just selected by admins?

Not quite sure, to be honest. I consider Kos commenters/diarists to be pretty fringe, but I sometimes read it for the stuff the professional (?) bloggers on the site write. Sometimes they veer into left field to, but they usually stay in the realm of sanity.

396 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:04:29pm

re: #391 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Paul Campaign Touts Endorsement Of Preacher Who Advocates Death Penalty For Gays

I don’t think Paul actively advocates the death sentence for gays, he just supports individual states’ rights to institute one if they so choose.

Do you not see a big difference there?

/

397 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:06:10pm

re: #395 Atlas Fails

Not quite sure, to be honest. I consider Kos commenters/diarists to be pretty fringe, but I sometimes read it for the stuff the professional (?) bloggers on the site write. Sometimes they veer into left field to, but they usually stay in the realm of sanity.

I’ve made the top of the rec list twice in the seven years I’ve been there…once over the Iraq war and once because I got married and shared my pictures. And I seeded the idea of an April Fool’s pootie-diary takeover a couple of years ago…mentioned the idea in a couple of pootie diaries, and the first of April, I was one of the few people who didn’t post one…that was my best moment there…thus far…though I don’t post there as much as I used to since I’ve been sleeping around here. (though I did buy myself a lifetime subscription)

398 jaunte  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:06:12pm

re: #396 ralphieboy

“Who is Ron Paul to stop a lynch mob, if the individual mob members are truly sincere in their beliefs.”

399 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:06:53pm

re: #398 jaunte

“Who is Ron Paul to stop a lynch mob, if the individual mob members are truly sincere in their beliefs.”

and if state laws allow lynchings

400 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:07:08pm

re: #396 ralphieboy

I don’t think Paul actively advocates the death sentence for gays, he just supports individual states’ rights to invoke one if they so choose.

Do you not see a big difference there?

/

Good point. That does make a huge difference!

//

401 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:07:21pm

re: #396 ralphieboy

I don’t think Paul actively advocates the death sentence for gays, he just supports individual states’ rights to institute one if they so choose.

Do you not see a big difference there?

/

Why the sarc? I think most people, here, do NOT see a difference.

402 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:10:03pm

re: #383 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Nah, he just made his money the old-fashioned way: He stole other people’s work and sold it as his own.

Like Steve Jobs said, “Good artists create, great artists steal.”

403 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:11:10pm

ICYMI: Ron Paul: Sanctions against Iran are ‘acts of war’

So what was Ron Paul’s vote regarding South Africa?

404 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:11:26pm

re: #398 jaunte

“Who is Ron Paul to stop a lynch mob, if the individual mob members are truly sincere in their beliefs.”

Ron Paul is in favor of anyone doing whatever the hell they please, as long as it does not go to the level of cooperating together to form what could be called a unified nation with common laws and, dare I say, federal government.

405 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:11:37pm

Watching Hardball which is being staged in some coffee house in Iowa…Bunch of white drugged up motherfuckers in the background watching the show and crooning their necks to get some background camera time…while Matthews and his two guests sit there with “What the fuck are we doing in this shithole?” looks on their faces.

406 Gus  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:13:00pm

He wasn’t in congress then. I did find this: Rick Perry Voted Against Sanctions On Apartheid-Era South Africa.

407 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:14:31pm

re: #404 Naso Tang

Ron Paul is in favor of anyone doing whatever the hell they please, as long as it does not go to the level of cooperating together to form what could be called a unified nation with common laws and, dare I say, federal government.

Just so long as they don’t want abortions, because he’s okay with the Feds nipping that one in the bud.

408 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:15:59pm

re: #407 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Just so long as they don’t want abortions, because he’s okay with the Feds nipping that one in the bud.

Well, that’s just because one abortion just became a senator from Kentucky last year.

409 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:17:08pm

re: #376 Atlas Fails

Agreed, but no upding for calling Mormonism a cult. I hate having to shoo away door-knockers as much as the next guy, and LDS definitely has some weird shit, but what religion doesn’t?

heh. Today was special. I had mormons. I had seventh day adventists. The nearby southern baptist church is on a membership drive that’s being capped with a revival and our neighborhood was on the list. The presbyterian church in america (not all presbys are the same) also nearby is trying to undercut the southern baptist drive and do their own recruitment.

Four groups, each with such /interesting/ interpretations of the bible and christ’s philosophy, not one of them happy to learn I had copies of their respective doctrines with wtf? questions written in the margins. Oh, and not one happy with my badgering question of how they, personally, were going to stand when the sheep were separated from the goats. “Yeah you’re saved. But how have you treated the least of your brethren?”

410 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:17:11pm

re: #408 darthstar

Well, that’s just because one abortion just became a senator from Kentucky last year.

Ol’ Aqua Buddha may be an asshole in the mold of his daddy, but that’s a bridge too far.

Not cool at all.

411 Stanghazi  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:19:21pm

Ha! Truckload of nails dropped on the 5. I’ll be home in 2 hrs

412 darthstar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:20:21pm

re: #410 talon_262
meh…Rand Paul is crazier than a shit house rat.

Ron Paul is a shit house rat.

413 Atlas Fails  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:20:46pm

re: #408 darthstar

Well, that’s just because one abortion just became a senator from Kentucky last year.

o_0

414 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:21:13pm

re: #407 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Just so long as they don’t want abortions, because he’s okay with the Feds nipping that one in the bud.

Although he would rather see all 50 states doing it in lockstep, but individually.

415 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:21:36pm

re: #394 darthstar

Nope…it has to do with how communist you are and your special relationship to Satan…that, and the ability to get readers to recommend your diary.

Or those who have their own Hecubus:

Youtube Video
416 Achilles Tang  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:22:00pm

re: #407 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Just so long as they don’t want abortions, because he’s okay with the Feds nipping that one in the bud.

Yes indeed.

417 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:30:40pm

Well Perry probably isn’t going to be on the Va. ballot. Judge refused to stop the printing or requiring them to add his name (so far).

Perry Loses Bid Before U.S. Judge to Stop Virginia Ballots

Here is also an interesting tidbit from the article from Newt about why he didn’t make the ballot.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich also failed to get the required signatures from registered voters. Gingrich said yesterday that someone hired to collect signatures provided false ones.

/// ACORN!!! oops, wrong party.

418 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:37:31pm

re: #412 darthstar

meh…Rand Paul is crazier than a shit house rat.

Ron Paul is a shit house rat.

I’d normally be leery of ascribing malice to someone when incompetence will do, but the Pauls are a whole ‘nother kettle of fish.

419 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:38:21pm

re: #417 Bubblehead II

Well Perry probably isn’t going to be on the Va. ballot. Judge refused to stop the printing or requiring them to add his name (so far).

Perry Loses Bid Before U.S. Judge to Stop Virginia Ballots

Here is also an interesting tidbit from the article from Newt about why he didn’t make the ballot.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich also failed to get the required signatures from registered voters. Gingrich said yesterday that someone hired to collect signatures provided false ones.

/// ACORN!!! oops, wrong party.

Voter registration fraud: it’s only bad when it happens to Democrats!

///

420 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:40:07pm

re: #419 talon_262

Voter registration fraud: it’s only bad when it happens to Democrats!

///

I am actually surprised that he admitted that it happened.

421 funky chicken  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:40:29pm

re: #52 wrenchwench

He’s pretty sure she loves her country the same way he does.

*wink*

/gag

Gross. Gingrich is probably loony enough to think he’s got a chance with her. I’d actually feel sorry for the current Mrs. Gingrich if she hadn’t started screwing the guy while he was married to somebody else. It really blows the whole “good Catholic choirgirl” thing out of the water.

He’s just so physically revolting…spiritually and psychologically as well, of course, but the physical package would have kept me from even having the chance to learn the rest.

422 funky chicken  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:41:56pm

re: #417 Bubblehead II

Well Perry probably isn’t going to be on the Va. ballot. Judge refused to stop the printing or requiring them to add his name (so far).

Perry Loses Bid Before U.S. Judge to Stop Virginia Ballots

Here is also an interesting tidbit from the article from Newt about why he didn’t make the ballot.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich also failed to get the required signatures from registered voters. Gingrich said yesterday that someone hired to collect signatures provided false ones.

/// ACORN!!! oops, wrong party.

LOLZ. In his home state the guy couldn’t find 10,000 legit signatures to allow him on the primary ballot.

423 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:43:04pm

re: #420 Bubblehead II

I am actually surprised that he admitted that it happened.

He probably thought the state would give him a mulligan and let him stay on the primary ballot…YAY for common sense and the law.

424 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:47:21pm

re: #423 talon_262

YAY for common sense and the law.

That statement proves you hate the GOP!
/

425 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:48:15pm

re: #421 funky chicken

Gross. Gingrich is probably loony enough to think he’s got a chance with her. I’d actually feel sorry for the current Mrs. Gingrich if she hadn’t started screwing the guy while he was married to somebody else. It really blows the whole “good Catholic choirgirl” thing out of the water.

He’s just so physically revolting…spiritually and psychologically as well, of course, but the physical package would have kept me from even having the chance to learn the rest.

For me, if he were ‘spiritually and psychologically’ attractive, the physical could follow, but since he seems unpleasant to be around, and even think about, it never would. The revolting personality trumps all.

426 wilburs  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:49:18pm

re: #417 Bubblehead II

Well Perry probably isn’t going to be on the Va. ballot. Judge refused to stop the printing or requiring them to add his name (so far).

Perry Loses Bid Before U.S. Judge to Stop Virginia Ballots

Here is also an interesting tidbit from the article from Newt about why he didn’t make the ballot.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich also failed to get the required signatures from registered voters. Gingrich said yesterday that someone hired to collect signatures provided false ones.

/// ACORN!!! oops, wrong party.

The level of ballot petition fraud is astronomical, but you will never see republicans complaining about that as long as they can afford to pay to get their pet causes on the ballot.

427 Kragar  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:49:32pm

Bachmann Stands by Her Paul Bribery Charge in Iowa Campaign

428 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:52:29pm

Ugh, I shouldn’t be this tired this early…but I am. Think I’m gonna head to bed. BBL

429 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:54:03pm

I announced this thing twice here, and both times it’s been delayed (and grew by 170 pages in the mean time). And finally:

Debunking Holocaust denial. Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka.

430 funky chicken  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:57:05pm

re: #427 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann Stands by Her Paul Bribery Charge in Iowa Campaign

Somebody needs to stage an intervention on this woman.

431 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:57:59pm

re: #10 Winny Spencer

What a disappointment.

what’s disappointing? Did you really expect something different? Really?

432 wilburs  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 4:59:49pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Um, you do know that Sarah Palin worked against the corruption in Alaska during her time as governor, don’t you? You can call her many things, but she wasn’t a corrupt lackey.

More Sarah Palin mythology.

The person she blew the whistle on was a political rival whom she had a serious grudge against. The behavior, doing party business on the public’s time, is a behavior she had no problem emulating herself.

She quit her job on the commission not because of “corruption”, but because she was way over her head. The job required her to do two things; develop some expertise on the subject, and work hard applying that expertise to difficult problems, two things she is by nature loathe to do.

To be fair, she did work with the Democrats to get a better deal for the state on the pipeline issue, but that plan is never going to come to fruition. She also increased the transfer of wealth from the “job producing” oil companies to the 99%, although I don’t think she would like it put that way.

(Beating the dead Sarah horse is a nice change from beating the dead Paul horse.)

433 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:00:25pm

re: #430 funky chicken

Somebody needs to stage an intervention on this woman.

she seems like the perfect representative of arch-social-conservatives everywhere: paranoid, superstitious, and clueless :D


The problem isn’t Michelle Bachmann, the problem is there’s enough voter demand for people such as this in office that she’s in the House

434 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:01:07pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Um, you do know that Sarah Palin worked against the corruption in Alaska during her time as governor, don’t you? You can call her many things, but she wasn’t a corrupt lackey.

hahahaha this is amazing to behold


I figured the tribalism would end at supporting Sarah Palin, guess not!

435 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:02:17pm

re: #431 WindUpBird

what’s disappointing? Did you really expect something different? Really?

This crap tastes like crap, I am dissapoint!

436 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:03:16pm

re: #402 talon_262

Like Steve Jobs said, “Good artists create, great artists steal.”

and like people have been saying since before Steve Jobs was anything, lol

437 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:04:04pm

re: #435 goddamnedfrank

I am shocked! Shocked that my party full of confederate nitwits is pandering to confedarate nitwits!

it’s the first I’ve heard of this!

438 wilburs  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:06:08pm

Does Santorum have a job?

Or is he doing the Alan Keyes/Christine O’Donnell thing…paying himself to run for office out of his campaign funds.

439 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:08:35pm

OT, but this late in the thread shouldn’t be a problem.

My Wife and I both have the Vizio VTAB1008 slabs. Anybody have any idea where I can find the MAC address for the devices. I prefer to secure our wireless network with both encryption/P.W. as well as MAC address filtering. Unfortunately, I had to turn off the filtering in order to allow the devices to connect to the network.

I have already looked under device information and wireless configuration.

440 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:17:22pm

re: #439 Bubblehead II

Menu button (bottom right 3 lines) > Settings > Wireless & Networks > Wireless Network Settings > Menu button > Advanced > MAC address is on second line

If that works, thank Google, not me.

441 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 29, 2011 5:30:24pm

re: #422 funky chicken

LOLZ. In his home state the guy couldn’t find 10,000 legit signatures to allow him on the primary ballot.

AFAIK, it’s a bit more complicated than that; IIRC, there’s also a requirement that there must be so many signatures from every electoral district in the state for candidates to be included on the ballot, in addition to the 10,000 signature threshold.


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