The latest video by Benny and Rafi Fine shows a group of teenagers talking about Rick Perry’s now-infamous anti-gay advertisement “Strong.” Funny stuff!
Youtube Video1 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:08:44pm |
OK, who will be the first to say "the kids are alright"? We all know it's coming!
/
| 2 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:10:26pm |
Luckily for Perry, most of those kids aren't old enough to vote. Unluckily for Perry, there are more people who are eligible to vote who think he's wrong than there are of those who think he's right.
| 3 |
jaunte Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:13:13pm |
"Perry's targeting the Amish." I think she's figured out his plan.
| 4 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:15:07pm |
5:45 - yay! :)
| 5 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:15:12pm |
I stopped watching after it was clear many of the teens knew very little about politics. In view of that (typical) ignorance of the young, I'm just going to call out "Hey you kids, GET OFF MY LAWN!" and let it go at that.
| 6 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:16:17pm |
re: #5 Dark_Falcon
You old Sith!
| 7 |
Eclectic Infidel Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:18:03pm |
Whacky Idea, let's lower the voting age to 16.
| 8 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:18:45pm |
re: #6 Sergey Romanov
You old Sith!
Varek is the Sith, I'm just a Lt. Col. in the Imperial Army.
///
| 9 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:19:45pm |
This has been another episode of "Idiot Texas Governors We Have Known"
| 10 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:20:30pm |
re: #7 eclectic infidel
Whacky Idea, let's lower the voting age to 16.
Two words: 'Hell' and 'No'. We don't need uninformed voters who haven't yet felt the bite of taxation.
| 12 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:22:37pm |
re: #9 WindUpBird
This has been another episode of "Idiot Texas Governors We Have Known"
I would dispute calling George W. Bush an 'idiot', though I'm fine with calling Rick Perry that. I'd also point out that unlike Perry, GWB is not an asshole.
| 13 |
jaunte Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:22:40pm |
The girl opposed to mixing religion and politics sounded pretty well-informed.
| 14 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:22:54pm |
re: #10 Dark_Falcon
At 12 I knew how progressive taxation worked, something most Republican adults who actually pay taxes seem to be unable to grasp
| 15 |
jaunte Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:23:53pm |
re: #13 jaunte
The girl opposed to mixing religion and politics sounded pretty well-informed.
Or at least, wiser than a lot of older politicians.
| 16 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:24:23pm |
re: #12 Dark_Falcon
I would dispute calling George W. Bush an 'idiot', though I'm fine with calling Rick Perry that. I'd also point out that unlike Perry, GWB is not an asshole.
idiot is too kind a word for Bush, he was not in control of his own presidency, he was a hapless figurehead at best
| 17 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:24:54pm |
re: #14 WindUpBird
At 12 I knew how progressive taxation worked, something most Republican adults who actually pay taxes seem to be unable to grasp
All that means is that you're smarter than most people WUB, and we already knew that.
| 18 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:27:27pm |
re: #5 Dark_Falcon
Sadly, they have more on the ball than many of my poligious relatives.
| 19 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:29:01pm |
re: #7 eclectic infidel
Whacky Idea, let's lower the voting age to 16.
I swing the other way, and say boost everything back up to 21, including minimum enlistment age.
| 20 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:30:52pm |
re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth
Sadly, they have more on the ball than many of my poligious relatives.
"Poligious"?
| 21 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:31:03pm |
The facial expressions alone tell you everything you need to know.
| 22 |
BishopX Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:31:04pm |
re: #10 Dark_Falcon
How many 18 year old have really felt the "bite" of taxation? I think I paid a grand total of 100 bucks in taxes when I was 18.
| 23 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:32:34pm |
re: #20 Dark_Falcon
Thoroughly mixing religion and politics, to the point that only their religious views should be what informs political decisions.
That's probably not the Urban Dictionary definition, but that's what I'm going with.
| 24 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:34:09pm |
#22 BishopX
I first did when I was 14, in the form of payroll deductions. I quit that job and went back to earning money under the table. It was a shitty job, anyway.
| 25 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:34:30pm |
I thought these kids were pretty smart about what's going on with Rick Perry's video. They may not have known the date of the election, but they sure realized that religious fanatics (i.e. ALL of the GOP candidates) are trying to sell them a load of hateful crap. Good for them.
| 26 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:34:50pm |
re: #24 Slumbering Behemoth
I first did when I was 14, in the form of payroll deductions. I quit that job and went back to earning money under the table. It was a shitty job, anyway.
You had your first facial expression at 14?
| 27 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:35:53pm |
re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You're quick. Caught my flub before I managed the pencil. You win one internet.
| 28 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:36:45pm |
re: #27 Slumbering Behemoth
You're quick. Caught my flub before I managed the pencil. You win one internet.
THE DAY IS MINE!
| 29 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:36:55pm |
re: #7 eclectic infidel
Whacky Idea, let's lower the voting age to 16.
Okay you missed the kid for Ron Paul right? I was thinking to make it 30. //
You gave me an idea. What would be fun is if schools had a (mock of course) national election. Then the kids can get the results by grade etc. online. Give them a taste of the system. Maybe from middle school & up. Might do wonders for participation.
| 30 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:37:05pm |
re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Although you're question is probably pretty close to the truth.
| 31 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:39:09pm |
re: #25 Charles
Yup. Makes me feel a little better about the future of this nation.
| 32 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:39:53pm |
re: #25 Charles
Kids these days are very media savvy, something which the wingnut GOP base is not.
| 33 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:40:37pm |
re: #20 Dark_Falcon
Here's the UD definition. That's about right.
| 34 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:41:45pm |
re: #32 freetoken
Not just the wingnut base, but the party proper as well. Obama destroyed them in the internet ring during his campaign.
| 35 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:44:45pm |
re: #34 Slumbering Behemoth
The GOP machine has its own media manipulators, and they use the tools (radio, TV (e.g., Fox), and the web) to reach part of their audience. Talk radio especially is the tool of choice it appears.
That there are wingnut base elements, like Dim Jim, that use social media and websites shows that there is a slice of the GOP base that knows about 21st century tools.
However, if you look at many of those GOP and Tea Party gatherings the average age looks to be around 60, and overall that crowd isn't so much into avant garde electronic interaction.
| 36 |
aagcobb Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:46:12pm |
re: #29 Rightwingconspirator
Okay you missed the kid for Ron Paul right? I was thinking to make it 30. //
You gave me an idea. What would be fun is if schools had a (mock of course) national election. Then the kids can get the results by grade etc. online. Give them a taste of the system. Maybe from middle school & up. Might do wonders for participation.
I believe most schools do conduct a mock election, at least here in Kentucky.
| 37 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:48:08pm |
re: #36 aagcobb
Good! Civics class?
It would be great to have a national tally and results for them to see and perhaps contrast with the real results.
| 38 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:48:19pm |
re: #35 freetoken
Which incidentally makes me feel better about my mom. She's in her 60s, and pretty much has this whole interwebs thing nailed. She still asks silly questions from time to time, but she's way ahead of her peer group.
| 39 |
BishopX Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:48:21pm |
re: #36 aagcobb
My high school did in MA. It was run by the AP Civics class, which also gave an excellent perspective on the actual mechanics of voting.
| 40 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:49:13pm |
Charles Krauthammer has some nerve writing a column like this when he's one of the most prominent voices telling the right wing base that global warming is a liberal myth:
I sometimes wonder how people like Krauthammer can hold such radically different viewpoints at the same time with no sign of discomfort. In a way, what Krauthammer does is even worse than the numbskull deniers.
Because he knows better.
| 41 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:53:35pm |
re: #40 Charles
That article got widespread play yesterday. I read it and thought that it was just weird for Krauthammer to venture into that area as if he has something to add.
Then I realized he was just trying to impress his followers with how smart he is supposed to be.
If anyone really wanted to tackle the subject seriously, they'd start off describing how unlikely it is to detect RF from another planet because the inverse-square-law means any transmission would be so weak by the time it got to Earth that it would be hard to distinguish it from the background noise in the galaxy, which is full of billions of bodies emitting RF at power levels much greater than any civilization could generate.
Also, there is a real need to feel "special", and part of the ID mind-set (which Krauthammer's readers would be highly susceptible) requires that humans are unique.
| 42 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:54:34pm |
Krauthammer writes:
That silence is maddening. Not just because it compounds our feeling of cosmic isolation, but because it makes no sense. As we inevitably find more and more exo-planets where intelligent life can exist, why have we found no evidence — no signals, no radio waves — that intelligent life does exist?
Why is it that no one ever seems to consider the thoroughly depressing possibility that we earthlings are currently the most scientifically advanced species in our universe? That all the other intelligent species out there are still at the cave man stage or worse?
| 43 |
jaunte Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:55:22pm |
re: #40 Charles
I'm not sure we're really that lonely for alien friends. We have the History Channel.
| 44 |
Interesting Times Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:57:09pm |
re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth
Why is it that no one ever seems to consider the thoroughly depressing possibility that we earthlings are currently the most scientifically advanced species in our universe? That all the other intelligent species out there are still at the cave man stage or worse?
| 45 |
BishopX Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:57:36pm |
re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth
There's also the whole space/time issue. Anyone looking at earth from more than 100 light years away would have no idea humanity had made it past the cave man stage.
| 46 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:57:46pm |
The guy with a $12 million La Jolla beach-side mansion is trying to get the spotlight off his own silver spoon:
Mitt Romney: Obama 'sounds like Marie Antoinette'
Speaking to supporters at a chilly outdoor rally, Mitt Romney on Friday sought to cast President Obama as out of touch with the economic pain being felt by average Americans.
Yeah Mitt, tell us about economic pain.
| 47 |
jaunte Fri, Dec 30, 2011 7:59:46pm |
re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth
Krauthammer writes:
Why is it that no one ever seems to consider the thoroughly depressing possibility that we earthlings are currently the most scientifically advanced species in our universe? That all the other intelligent species out there are still at the cave man stage or worse?
Our own radio transmissions are only about 100 light years out; our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. Maybe other transmissions haven't reached us yet.
| 48 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:00:37pm |
re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth
So many dumb assumptions it's kinda consistent with denier thinking.
Or just not into powerful radio exactly x thousands of years ago. Sheesh we barely started looking and listening. Or what if they were there so many millions of years ago, came and went naturally hundreds of times over. Or will be starting to get technical like us just a few centuries from now?
Why assume radio/tv goes with smart at all?
| 49 |
Interesting Times Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:00:46pm |
re: #46 freetoken
Yeah Mitt, tell us about economic pain.
You don't know how hard it is having to pay this sort of help a living wage! *sniff*
| 50 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:01:20pm |
re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth
Krauthammer writes:
Why is it that no one ever seems to consider the thoroughly depressing possibility that we earthlings are currently the most scientifically advanced species in our universe? That all the other intelligent species out there are still at the cave man stage or worse?
What if the climate change Charles Krauthammer denies is one of the reasons for this "silence" he's writing about?
| 51 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:02:01pm |
What was the point of Krauthammer's OpEd?
This was a howler:
It is telling us that intelligence may be the most cursed faculty in the entire universe — an endowment not just ultimately fatal but, on the scale of cosmic time, nearly instantly so.
I think ignorance is the most cursed faculty, but I'm not a great thinker like he is.
| 52 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:04:24pm |
re: #44 publicityStunted
All these sci-fi shows, some of which go on about "The Ancients", the oldest, most advance race of people in the universe.
I would just be our tragic luck that we is it.
| 53 |
Interesting Times Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:04:30pm |
re: #50 Charles
What if the climate change Charles Kruathammer denies is one of the reasons for this "silence" he's writing about?
It most certainly will be, if this life-endangering idiocy keeps up. I honestly think this is front-page worthy. What more evidence does one need that the modern GOP/American right poses an existential threat to America itself?
| 54 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:04:54pm |
I think Krauthammer was dropping the Highly Intellectual Concern there.
Did I change or did he? I used to love his columns.
| 56 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:10:39pm |
re: #50 Charles
In the past writers have posited that the discovery of element 92 would likely doom any civilization.
Life is probably rare in the universe - the physical and chemical requirements would seem to narrow the likely planet candidates tremendously.
We humans tend to not have a very good intuitive grasp of time and space outside of what we can reach and see. We've existed on this planet for such a brief moment, and that will pass soon enough.
It does seem like some of our fellow humans are trying to hurry that up, though.
I do not believe we humans will ever communicate with any other life form on another planet. At best, if we build a telescope big enough and put it in space we ought to be able to detect if a planet has an atmosphere that indicates (carbon based) life processes exist on that planet. The James Webb Space Telescope, if it is ever completed, is the first instrument that possibly could do this type of measurement.
| 57 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:13:20pm |
re: #50 Charles
I don't figure you for the type to like Death Metal, but what you speak of there is the subject of this song... Vacant Planets
Mysterious objects of flight on a voyage
To correct what they have done, what we are doing
Perhaps submerged, living in the inner most
Recesses of the planet -- no choice but
To adapt to an underground world
Limiting our passages of thought
Are they the examples of regression
A life form's abusive progression
In a realm so vast, we sit among the Vacant Planets
So many worlds yet to be seen that once have shared
The same effects that come from greed, mass production
Perhaps submerged, living in the inner most
Recesses of the planet -- no choice but
To adapt to an underground world
Limiting our passages of thought
Are they the examples of regression
A life form's abusive progression
| 58 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:18:06pm |
It is foolish arrogance to equate intelligence with technology. It seems we are only looking for someone like ourselves out there. In a way we are not looking for aliens at all. We want to find creatures just like us all technology dependent. Just as flawed and self destructive.
Ever notice the repetitive human surprise as we discover other life on earth is smarter than we assumed? Or can feel pain more than we thought? Or was more able than we thought to feel loss and pain at the death of a mate?
We have endless clues here as to what to look for. Only one species does tech. Many species are more smart or capable than we think. The whole "where are they all?" is abject arrogance. We have not really looked yet.
| 60 |
b_Snark Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:21:11pm |
I realize the thread has gone on to aliens, but I just want to say I'm being eaten alive by taxes. The taxes I pay give me nothing in return, except medical care, paved highways, national military, national police force, public education, regulation of environmental toxins, safety standards, parks, water management and a number I've missed.
The taxes I pay prevent me from affording food, clothing, hobbies, vehicles, housing, and toys. I have no disposable income.
No wait, it doesn't do any of those things.
My bad.
| 62 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:23:42pm |
re: #54 BigPapa
I think Krauthammer was dropping the Highly Intellectual Concern there.
Did I change or did he? I used to love his columns.
I've always thought that guy was full of shit, to me he's never changed
But then again, I was never a republican and never a conservative
| 63 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:23:44pm |
| 64 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:25:46pm |
The double whammy:
Indian power companies are pushing the government to allow them to cut down forests so that they can press ahead with new coal mines. Essar has pledged to plant more new trees than it clears, though that promise is unlikely to satisfy many environmentalists.
Burning the coal isn't enough - they've got to clear the forests to do it.
| 65 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:26:56pm |
re: #62 WindUpBird
I've always thought that guy was full of shit, to me he's never changed
But then again, I was never a republican and never a conservative
Well you got me there.
But then again, where we're going is more important than where we've been.
| 66 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:34:13pm |
Contrary to the GOP wingnut claim's that Obama has ended oil exploration in this country:
Deep Gulf drilling thrives 18 mos. after BP spill
[...]
Across the Gulf, energy companies are probing dozens of new deepwater fields thanks to high oil prices and technological advances that finally make it possible to tap them.
The newfound oil will not do much to lower global oil prices. But together with increased production from onshore U.S. fields and slowing domestic demand for gasoline, it could help reduce U.S. oil imports by more than half over the next decade.
Eighteen months ago, such a flurry of activity in the Gulf seemed unlikely. The Obama administration halted drilling and stopped issuing new permits after the explosion of a BP well killed 11 workers and caused the largest oil spill in U.S. history.
But the drilling moratorium was eventually lifted and the Obama administration issued the first new drilling permit in March. Now the Gulf is humming again and oil executives describe it as the world's best place to drill.
[...]
By early 2012 there will be more rigs in the Gulf designed to drill in its "deep water" — defined as 2,000 feet or deeper — than before the spill.
[...]
| 67 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:41:38pm |
re: #66 freetoken
Contrary to the GOP wingnut claim's that Obama has ended oil exploration in this country:
By early 2012 there will be more rigs in the Gulf designed to drill in its "deep water" — defined as 2,000 feet or deeper — than before the spill.
The environmentalists are going to be even more pissed.
| 68 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 8:47:32pm |
re: #60 b_sharp
Yeah, we got plenty of that gawt-damned gov't socialism here in the States too:
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water supply. After that, I turned the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined what the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.
At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.
After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.
I then log onto the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the Government can't do anything right.
| 69 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:00:31pm |
Ok, for a FNDT I present the Perimeter Institute's videos on basic physics, cute and actually educational:
| 70 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:01:57pm |
re: #69 freetoken
Ok, for a FNDT I present the Perimeter Institute's videos on basic physics, cute and actually educational:
Shit, wait. We're supposed to be drinking?
/jk, way ahead of ya...
| 71 |
Altermite Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:03:08pm |
re: #67 NJDhockeyfan
The environmentalists are going to be even more pissed.
I am. Especially given that there was another (extremely minor this time, but still...) spill near the deepwater horizon site recently.
| 72 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:05:27pm |
re: #67 NJDhockeyfan
Recalling on our convo last night, I think I'm gonna get to work on something like this tomorrow night.
| 73 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:06:17pm |
Too strong? I was a little lubed up which Wifey's fault for not getting home earlier.
Sometimes it just flows.
| 74 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:11:51pm |
| 75 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:16:55pm |
re: #73 BigPapa
Someone a long time ago mentioned something about pearls and swine.
| 76 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:18:21pm |
re: #72 Slumbering Behemoth
Recalling on our convo last night, I think I'm gonna get to work on something like this tomorrow night.
That looks soooo good.
| 77 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:19:36pm |
re: #76 NJDhockeyfan
I've never made one before, but it doesn't look hard at all. The bonus? Mom's leftover stuffing. It's the bomb.
| 78 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:19:55pm |
Would-be Southwest Plaza bomber pleads guilty
The man responsible for a bomb scare at the Southwest Plaza mall on the 12th anniversary of the Columbine High School tragedy pleaded guilty in federal court this morning.
Earl Albert Moore, 65, will be sentenced to at least 30 years in prison after pleading guilty to a single charge of arson of a building using a destructive device. Moore placed a failed explosive device in the mall on April 20 this year.
"I didn't have any intention of hurting anybody," Moore said in court this morning.
| 79 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:25:32pm |
"I didn't have any intention of hurting anybody," Moore said in court this morning.
Yeah, 'cuz that's what home-made fire bombs are for, not hurting people.
/
| 80 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:25:47pm |
re: #75 freetoken
Someone a long time ago mentioned something about pearls and swine.
True. But then again, I doubt I'll win over my debate partner. But the discussion and the amount of information may help to get a few others to think.
| 81 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:28:28pm |
A 99-year-old Italian man is divorcing his wife of 77 years after he stumbled across letters she had written to a secret lover in the 1940s.
The damning discovery days before Christmas led the galled grandfather to confront his once two-timing wife immediately, London’s Daily Telegraph reported.
The 96-year-old woman, identified in court papers as Rosa C., reportedly confessed to having an affair 60 years ago, and then tried desperately to persuade her hubby to stay.
The scorned nonagenarian, Antonio C., refused and filed for divorce despite a romance spanning nearly eight decades.
In that time, the couple amassed five children, a dozen grandchildren and one great-grandchild.
OK ladies, this one's back on the market!
| 82 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:28:38pm |
re: #80 BigPapa
All you can do is try, bro. Winning hearts and minds ain't easy, but it's easier to do when not punching noses.
Not saying that you were punching noses, just sayin'.
| 83 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:31:35pm |
re: #81 NJDhockeyfan
I'd figure after all that time, it would be something to laugh about. Especially at that age. But what do I know? I've never been married to a woman who once had an affair 60 years in the past.
| 84 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:32:34pm |
re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth
All you can do is try, bro. Winning hearts and minds ain't easy, but it's easier to do when not punching noses.
Not saying that you were punching noses, just sayin'.
I can't help it if I'm maximum awesome. But the stupid, it burns.
Currently, this is my way of 'doing something.' That blog is related to my profession and many of those guys know me personally/professionally. But it doesn't bother me. Maybe it should, if a little bit, but it doesn't.
| 85 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:34:33pm |
re: #84 BigPapa
Like I said, kudos for trying. It's all any of us can do. And btw, no, I didn't think that was too strong.
| 86 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:35:37pm |
re: #80 BigPapa
True. But then again, I doubt I'll win over my debate partner. But the discussion and the amount of information may help to get a few others to think.
I admire your willingness to work at educating others.
In my experience I've found that people usually aren't receptive to new information until after sometimes lengthy intervals. Worldview challenging information can take a while to seep in.
| 87 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:42:54pm |
Fox's series Terra Nova has to be the biggest disappointment of the television season. Lots of money paid for great visuals, and the idea of time travel is always full of possibilities, but it suffered fatally from Spielbergian stupidity.
| 88 |
Kronocide Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:43:10pm |
re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth
Like I said, kudos for trying. It's all any of us can do. And btw, no, I didn't think that was too strong.
Thanks bro, I know you'd tell me if it was.
re: #86 freetoken
In my experience I've found that people usually aren't receptive to new information until after sometimes lengthy intervals. Worldview challenging information can take a while to seep in.
I agree. Instead of 'winning' or changing somebody's mind in a particular debate I think it more like the ebb and flow of information. Hopefully the pristine and astringent truth dilutes the polluting myths and disinformation, over time.
If you're used to a metallic taste in your water for years, and sudden change to distilled and purified water will make you think that water is crap.
| 89 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:46:36pm |
re: #88 BigPapa
Another thing to consider while making blog comments like that...
There is a chance that there are lurkers, just reading along, who might be on the fence about some subjects. Though you may never know it, you may end up winning hearts and minds that you'll never even hear from.
| 90 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:48:34pm |
re: #87 freetoken
Yeah, I wanted to like it. It just ain't doing it for me.
| 91 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:48:54pm |
re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth
I often write for the lurkers. In the case of LGF there are far more readers than posters.
| 92 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:49:46pm |
re: #90 Slumbering Behemoth
Yeah, I wanted to like it. It just ain't doing it for me.
The stories are just terminally stupid. Rehashed stereotypes combined with poorly thought out story-lines.
| 93 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:50:02pm |
I write for the future, for posterity, for mankind...well, mostly for the chuckles.
| 94 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:50:39pm |
re: #91 freetoken
I often write for the lurkers.
Of course you do. None of us here give two shits for what you have to say.
/kidding, of course.
| 95 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:52:47pm |
re: #87 freetoken
Fox's series Terra Nova has to be the biggest disappointment of the television season. Lots of money paid for great visuals, and the idea of time travel is always full of possibilities, but it suffered fatally from Spielbergian stupidity.
Never underestimate the ability of the entertainment industry to substitute flash over story.
| 96 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:55:22pm |
| 97 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:56:11pm |
re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Never underestimate the ability of the entertainment industry to substitute flash over story.
It's not just flash, it's just stupid.
Indeed, the viewership of Terra Nova has been nothing like what one would expect for a very expensive, highly hyped series. It was trounced in the ratings, yet it was the most expensive show in its TV target.
| 98 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 9:58:43pm |
re: #97 freetoken
It's not just flash, it's just stupid.
Indeed, the viewership of Terra Nova has been nothing like what one would expect for a very expensive, highly hyped series. It was trounced in the ratings, yet it was the most expensive show in its TV target.
Case in point:
Mars Needs Moms
Mars Needs Moms earned only $1,725,000 on its first day, for a weekend total of $6,825,000. [8][9] This was the 12th worst opening ever for a film playing in 3000+ theaters.[10] Due to its very high budget of $150 million, the film was a major box office bomb, and at the moment is the fifth biggest box-office bomb in film history.[11] On 14 March 2011, Brook Barnes of The New York Times commented that it was rare for a Disney-branded film to do so badly, with the reason for its poor performance being the subject (a mother kidnapped from her child), the style of animation, which fails to cross the uncanny valley threshold, and negative word of mouth on social networks, along with releasing it on the same week as Battle: Los Angeles which had more hype with the general movie goers. Barnes concluded, "Critics and audiences alike, with audiences voicing their opinions on Twitter, blogs and other social media, complained that the Zemeckis technique can result in character facial expressions that look unnatural. Another common criticism was that Mr. Zemeckis focuses so much on technological wizardry that he neglects storytelling."[12] The poor box-office performance was a major contributor to Disney's decision to shut down ImageMovers Digital, the company it formed with Zemeckis.[13]
| 99 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:05:14pm |
Iran launches wide-range missile in Persian Gulf
The Iranian military test-launched a wide-range missile on Saturday, Fars news agency reported.
The Iranian Navy launched the live missile during exercises in the Persian Gulf in a zone of some 2,000 square kilometers in international waters between the Strait of Hormuz and the Gulf of Oman. Iran has been holding naval excersies in the area since December 24.
No specific information on the missile launch has so far been announced by Iranian authorities.
| 100 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:09:51pm |
re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Case in point:
Mars Needs Moms
As opposed to, say, Pixar, which gets the story dead center bullseye on.
| 101 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:13:49pm |
re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Wide release movies have their own problems (and Ebert's latest column is on how Hollywood is hurting because of pricing, not piracy).
But with TV the productions are usually cheaper and one expects less... but in the case of Terra Nova the production is quite expensive but each episode is full of WTF moments every 5 minutes.
For example (SPOILER):
In the season ender we find that the cargoes returning to 2149 have as their valuable contents "meteoric iron". That's just stupid. If you want "meteoric iron" (as if that somehow is more important that the iron already on the planet, iron, which is the element that makes up the largest share of our planet's mass) why send someone back 85 million years? Just go up into space and grab a freaking tiny asteroid that is not too far from Earth.
And, don't get me going on the colony's apparently never ending supply of temperate climate fruit always in season, or any of a hundred other silly things that are just thrown in against all reason.
| 102 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:15:56pm |
Okay, this is funny:
You know how cnn.com has their story categories? At the bottom of "Business" is "Verizon to charge $2 fee." At the top, about six stories away, is "Verizon scraps $2 fee."
They could have asked the banks. People really really hate little annoying fees.
| 103 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:19:32pm |
A show on the Military Channel about Nazi Germany is telling some nasty shit about Joseph Kennedy's connections to "The Right Club".
| 104 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:23:50pm |
re: #102 EmmmieG
Somebody must be getting fired for that blunder. A $2 dollar "convenience" fee for something that is equally as convenient for Verizon as it is it's customers, and would actually save Verizon money?
Dummy please, you need to be scrubbing toilets, not coming up with stupid fees.
| 105 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:29:53pm |
re: #101 freetoken
(ALSO SPOILERISH)
Then there's the whole 'sixer' plot of going back in time millions of years to strip mine and essentially destroy the planet long before humans began to strip mine and destroy the planet.
What the hell kind of plan is that? "I'm not happy being wealthy enough that I can raise a formidable, private army. I want to go back in time far enough to fuck this planet so that my ancestors are never even born".
Evil Geniuses they are not.
| 106 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:36:15pm |
re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth
(ALSO SPOILERISH)
Then there's the whole 'sixer' plot of going back in time millions of years to strip mine and essentially destroy the planet long before humans began to strip mine and destroy the planet.
What the hell kind of plan is that? "I'm not happy being wealthy enough that I can raise a formidable, private army. I want to go back in time far enough to fuck this planet so that my ancestors are never even born".
Evil Geniuses they are not.
If I could go back in time, I'd do what most everyone would do if they could go back in time. Meet famous people and try to stop tragedies.
| 107 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:38:35pm |
re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth
Yeah, really really dumb. The writers (in classic Spielbergian fashion) just needed their stereotyped bad guy - in this case heartless mining companies out to destroy the environment - without even coming up with a good reason for the bad guys to do what they are doing.
Terra Nova is still supposedly a toss up for renewal:
[Link: tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com...]
If it only cost what the usual cheapie SyFy series cost it would probably be renewed, but as the number of viewers traditionally go down with each season, and TN already down below 7 million viewers at times, I wonder how it can continue.
There was so much that could have been done with the idea (and money), but instead it turned out as not really worth it.
| 108 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:39:24pm |
re: #106 EmmmieG
If I could go back in time, I'd do what most everyone would do if they could go back in time. Meet famous people and try to stop tragedies.
Grab antiquities, stash them where no one would ever think to look for them, "discover them" in the current time, profit.
| 109 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:44:18pm |
re: #106 EmmmieG
If I could go back in time, I'd do what most everyone would do if they could go back in time. Meet famous people and try to stop tragedies.
Ah... so you want to trash the timeline, eh?
I've considered that a good thought experiment would be to ask people what they would do if they could go back to any time and try to change something.
Thing is, most any changes to significant events would probably mean we wouldn't be here.
Want to go back and keep Mohammed from founding Islam? Some would - under the proposition that Islam caused a lot of bad things the past millennium or so. Yet that would mean you and I wouldn't be here.
Same for any big movement/person.
I wonder what would happen if I went back say 3000 years to the Andes and taught the natives writing and some basic engineering (metal working, water working, windmills, etc.) I wonder if a new civilization would have sprung up that by the time of the West's middle ages contact could have been made the other way? Fascinating alternate history.
| 110 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:45:26pm |
re: #106 EmmmieG
If I could, I would basically just be a sight seeing tourist.
"So, Emperor Ming. I see you're building a wall over there. I bet it'll be pretty great. *snicker*"
| 111 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:46:45pm |
re: #109 freetoken
Ah... so you want to trash the timeline, eh?
I've considered that a good thought experiment would be to ask people what they would do if they could go back to any time and try to change something.
Thing is, most any changes to significant events would probably mean we wouldn't be here.
Want to go back and keep Mohammed from founding Islam? Some would - under the proposition that Islam caused a lot of bad things the past millennium or so. Yet that would mean you and I wouldn't be here.
Same for any big movement/person.
I wonder what would happen if I went back say 3000 years to the Andes and taught the natives writing and some basic engineering (metal working, water working, windmills, etc.) I wonder if a new civilization would have sprung up that by the time of the West's middle ages contact could have been made the other way? Fascinating alternate history.
Killing the most evil people of all time like Hitler would certainly change events but wouldn't it be in a good way?
| 112 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:49:46pm |
Professor predicts human time travel this century
Ronald Mallett, Professor at the University of Connecticut, has used Einstein’s equations to design a time machine with circulating laser beams. While his team is still looking for funding, he hopes to build and test the device in the next 10 years.
| 113 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:50:25pm |
re: #111 NJDhockeyfan
I've considered that one, and have come to the conclusion that we were pretty lucky to have someone that egotistical and incompetent running the third reich.
The ideology wasn't exactly unique to him, and had someone more competent and less egotistical been in charge, many more people would have died.
At least, that's where my skylarkings on the matter have led me.
| 114 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:51:07pm |
re: #111 NJDhockeyfan
Killing the most evil people of all time like Hitler would certainly change events but wouldn't it be in a good way?
Not necessarily. I doubt that there is anybody in history you could change and avoid the total number of victims/catastrophes when summed over long periods (say centuries.)
Cut one monster down and another one will just fill the void.
| 115 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:51:31pm |
re: #111 NJDhockeyfan
Killing the most evil people of all time like Hitler would certainly change events but wouldn't it be in a good way?
My personal belief. If time travel did exist, no one would realize it. If you travel back in time to kill Hitler, that would mean the future would have changed so their would have been no reason to go back in time to kill Hitler.
| 116 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:53:00pm |
re: #112 NJDhockeyfan
He's just gonna screw up some calculation or something and end up stuck with a bunch of Morloks and Eloi. It always happens that way.
| 117 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:53:11pm |
re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
One scary thing to consider: what if someone/group has already weeded out the worst possible course for humanity and that we are already living in an optimized timeline?
| 118 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:53:48pm |
re: #117 freetoken
One scary thing to consider: what if someone/group has already weeded out the worst possible course for humanity and that we are already living in an optimized timeline?
They need to finish what they started.
| 119 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:56:00pm |
...Since 1955, when his Father died at age 33, “Doc” Mallett’s been driven by the desire to go back in time before his Dad’s death, and tell him two things; he loves him, and he should stop smoking cigarettes....You were ten years old when your Dad died. His death’s been a major source of inspiration for you since then. My question is two-fold as follows: So do you think he’d believe you if you traveled back in time prior to his passing to warn him to stop smoking? And what would you bring back with you to help convince him it was really you?”
“My father would have to see proof that I traveled back in time. My father was an electronic technician and had a keen curiosity about what was going on in science. So first I would give him a brief explanation about how time travel was possible. Afterwards, I would show him photos of his grown-up family. Finally, I would show him the official certificate of his death which I have. I believe that would really get his attention”.
| 120 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:56:03pm |
re: #117 freetoken
One scary thing to consider: what if someone/group has already weeded out the worst possible course for humanity and that we are already living in an optimized timeline?
Sadder thing: What if Fry's dog is really out there?
| 121 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:58:32pm |
re: #119 NJDhockeyfan
Thus saving his father, removing his incentive to discover time travel in the first place, and completely destroying our dimension's reality.
Nice going, Doc.
/
| 123 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 10:59:26pm |
re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
What if Fry's dog is really out there?
Never saw the episode, but the Wiki entry says it was up for an award so it must have been good.
| 124 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:01:07pm |
re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Sadder thing: What if Fry's dog is really out there?
I'm so happy, Futurama is back in re-runs on sunday nights.
Sadly, like most tv shows I'd like to watch, my lack of attention to tv means I forget to watch it.
| 125 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:01:26pm |
re: #123 freetoken
Never saw the episode, but the Wiki entry says it was up for an award so it must have been good.
| 127 |
Big Joe Ghazi Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:15:22pm |
re: #58 Rightwingconspirator
It is foolish arrogance to equate intelligence with technology. It seems we are only looking for someone like ourselves out there. In a way we are not looking for aliens at all. We want to find creatures just like us all technology dependent. Just as flawed and self destructive.
Ever notice the repetitive human surprise as we discover other life on earth is smarter than we assumed? Or can feel pain more than we thought? Or was more able than we thought to feel loss and pain at the death of a mate?
We have endless clues here as to what to look for. Only one species does tech. Many species are more smart or capable than we think. The whole "where are they all?" is abject arrogance. We have not really looked yet.
I was amazed by the monkey that builds fires and cooks food. This may have been posted here earlier. I apologize if it has.
| 129 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:25:11pm |
re: #22 BishopX
How many 18 year old have really felt the "bite" of taxation? I think I paid a grand total of 100 bucks in taxes when I was 18.
I have yet to really feel 'the bite of taxation'. They take money out of my check, and I get a little back during tax season and feel rich and go out to dinner.
Of course, I own no property to speak of, aside from a really great collection chick lit.
| 130 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:28:44pm |
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
Arrgh... stop talking about taxes. I figure I'll owe about $1700 by April, not because I make much but because of underestimated withholding.
| 131 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:30:16pm |
re: #36 aagcobb
I believe most schools do conduct a mock election, at least here in Kentucky.
A single school, in many areas, is only going to confirm the prejudices of the area. When I taught middle school, the school counselor did a thing with my seventh graders, where they were to go to different parts of the room to express different opinions. They were very split on many things. However, when she asked if they approved or disapproved of President Bush, they all marched to the 'disapprove' side as one body, and stayed there.
She seemed startled, but hell, we were in Oakland. It was a deep dark blue neighborhood, and their parents were deep dark blue voters. I'm sure there are many schools that are just as red. So while secret ballot might get you a slightly more nuanced vote...maybe not.
In my current neighborhood, it's about 90% Democrats from what I can read upside down when I go in to get my ballot.
| 132 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:33:08pm |
re: #87 freetoken
Fox's series Terra Nova has to be the biggest disappointment of the television season. Lots of money paid for great visuals, and the idea of time travel is always full of possibilities, but it suffered fatally from Spielbergian stupidity.
The writing is ghastly.
| 133 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:36:40pm |
re: #107 freetoken
Yeah, really really dumb. The writers (in classic Spielbergian fashion) just needed their stereotyped bad guy - in this case heartless mining companies out to destroy the environment - without even coming up with a good reason for the bad guys to do what they are doing.
Last episode my husband was throwing stuff to make me stop talking.
"OK, the impulsive young man now HAS to hit the sadistic bad guy, because the sadistic bad guy is hurting a girl, in FRONT of him. This will lead to him being held immobile by a couple of goons, and roughed up. They have now blown their cover, so..."
Washington's last words made me laugh...which made me feel bad, seeing as she died, and I was still laughing.
The writing is EGREGIOUS.
| 134 |
Four More Tears Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:37:55pm |
re: #111 NJDhockeyfan
Killing the most evil people of all time like Hitler would certainly change events but wouldn't it be in a good way?
And how scary would the Soviet Union have been without the 20+ million they lost as a result of WW2?
| 135 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:38:26pm |
re: #113 Slumbering Behemoth
I've considered that one, and have come to the conclusion that we were pretty lucky to have someone that egotistical and incompetent running the third reich.
The ideology wasn't exactly unique to him, and had someone more competent and less egotistical been in charge, many more people would have died.
At least, that's where my skylarkings on the matter have led me.
Isn't there some famous Internet thing, with time travelers killing and unkilling Hitler?
| 136 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:39:55pm |
re: #130 freetoken
Arrgh... stop talking about taxes. I figure I'll owe about $1700 by April, not because I make much but because of underestimated withholding.
Actually, I had a year like that. I did, in fact, feel the bite of taxation on that occasion. Or rather, the bite of my employers' payroll service being unable to actually use a calculator.
| 137 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:46:00pm |
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
Of course, I own no property to speak of, aside from a really great collection chick lit.
Obviously the IRS is not going to tax that. If anything, it is taxing in and of itself.
/
| 138 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:53:33pm |
re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist
Ahahahah!
At 17:15:32, SilverFox316 wrote:
Okay, apparently AsianAvenger was descended from Hong Xiuquan. Any volunteers to go back and stop him from negating his own existence?12/10/2104
At 09:14:44, SilverFox316 wrote:
Anyone?At 09:47:13, BarracksRoomLawyer wrote:
Point of order: this discussion belongs in the Qing Dynasty forum. We're adults; can we keep sight of what's important around here?
| 139 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:04:42am |
re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist
There was an RTS video game back in the day about that. Einstein goes back in time to eliminate Hitler, leaving a power vacuum quickly filled by Stalin's aggressively expansionist soviet empire, powered by scientific minds like Tesla and so on. Basically creating a future far worse than what resulted from squaring off against the third reich in the conventional manner.
| 140 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:41:21am |
Look, I'm sorry about that, but the air has cleared. Honest. Y'all can come back now.
| 141 |
freetoken Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:44:19am |
| 145 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 4:56:48am |
Good morning.
re: #139 Slumbering Behemoth
There was an RTS video game back in the day about that. Einstein goes back in time to eliminate Hitler, leaving a power vacuum quickly filled by Stalin's aggressively expansionist soviet empire, powered by scientific minds like Tesla and so on. Basically creating a future far worse than what resulted from squaring off against the third reich in the conventional manner.
Command and Conquer: Red Alert.
| 146 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:09:27am |
'Morning Earthlings. Not sure if this was mentioned but "Bare Naked Islam" is back online. They're claiming that "CAIR had nothing to do with this" but Wordpress now wants them to close up by January 6. Anyway, I sort of ran into this while looking for some other Muslim derangement information. That site BTW is some serious OCD regarding Islam. Something ain't right with these folks regardless of how evil Jihadism might be.
| 147 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:12:21am |
| 148 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:14:13am |
| 149 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:15:11am |
Lol.
I was reading yesterday that Verizon is going to charge a 2 dollar fee to pay online.
Today I read that they've dropped it.
| 150 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:20:25am |
re: #149 Varek Raith
I was reading yesterday that Verizon is going to charge a 2 dollar fee to pay online.
Today I read that they've dropped it.
Used to save money for a company to pay them online. Now they want a "convenience fee"? It would actually make more sense if they charged a fee for receiving payments by check.
Nice try Verizon.
Dillweeds.
| 151 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:27:14am |
re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Durbin Swipe Fee unintended consequences. Verizon backed down for now but they'll recoup that loss somehow. I'm expecting my bill to go up $2 whenever I change my contract again.
| 153 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:28:12am |
re: #151 RogueOne
It might be partially my fault. I disconnected my land-line last month.
| 154 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:30:00am |
re: #153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What took you so long? I haven't had one in probably 7 years. I can get one through my spouses company for about $3/Mo and I still don't see the point.
| 155 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:32:16am |
re: #154 RogueOne
I was required to have a fax machine for work. Now the company's gone totally digital? So, I have.
| 156 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:32:44am |
re: #155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was required to have a fax machine for work. Now the company's totally digital? So, I have.
WTF is a 'fax' machine?!?!
| 157 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:34:19am |
re: #156 Varek Raith
WTF is a 'fax' machine?!?!
"That whirling squiggy sound frightens and confuses me."
| 158 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:34:57am |
re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
"That whirling squiggy sound frightens and confuses me."
You have a pager, don't you?
/
| 159 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:36:19am |
re: #158 Varek Raith
You have a pager, don't you?
/
I also have a "cellular telephone". (Pronounced like the musical instrument "cello".)
Has a convenient bag and five pound battery.
I only pay $.60 a minute to talk!
| 160 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:38:00am |
re: #159 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I also have a "cellular telephone". (Pronounced like the musical instrument "cello".)
Has a convenient bag and five pound battery.
| 161 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:38:40am |
| 163 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:39:18am |
re: #156 Varek Raith
WTF is a 'fax' machine?!?!
I need to have access to one for work crap. I went with an online company that provides me a fax number and they forward all my faxes (maybe 3 a month) straight to my email.
| 167 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:43:18am |
re: #164 Varek Raith
Paperless Society!
XD
And all the technology comes with 599 page instruction manuals with continuous paper updates. Aaaand print everything out for a physical backup.
| 168 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:45:30am |
I worked with a guy in the late 80's early 90's who would ask if he could use my "car phone" to call his wife.
He'd always work, "Yeah; I'm on the car phone" into the conversation. Always made me giggle. He was such a freakin' neanderthal.
| 170 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:49:42am |
| 171 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:50:32am |
re: #170 Varek Raith
The same year I was born.
:P
Really? Damn you're young. I was already 100 years old in 1983.
//
| 172 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:50:43am |
re: #170 Varek Raith
I'd love to see an age check here. I'm fifty next year (2012)
| 173 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:50:55am |
re: #168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I worked with a guy in the late 80's early 90's who would ask if he could use my "car phone" to call his wife.
He'd always work, "Yeah; I'm on the car phone" into the conversation. Always made me giggle. He was such a freakin' neanderthal.
Wish I were an astronaut.
Oh, sorry, I can't take out the trash because...
I'M IN LOW EARTH ORBIT!
:P
| 174 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:51:12am |
| 175 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:55:25am |
re: #167 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
And all the technology comes with 599 page instruction manuals with continuous paper updates. Aaaand print everything out for a physical backup.
As recently as 2 years ago most companies were still sending me full sets of blueprints (3'x4' sheets) to quote projects while only a handful were sending DVD's. Now, everyone has finally moved to storing them online. My life has become a lot less cluttered and I'm able to keep prints indefinitely. I'm working on a remodel of a building that was put up 3 years ago and I still have the original prints. It's definitely made my work life easier.
| 176 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:56:34am |
re: #172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'll be 44 next year. I had to do the math in my head to make sure.
| 177 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 5:57:39am |
Russell Brand will now fade into obscurity! Good. He always seemed like a dick.
| 178 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:01:52am |
re: #177 Gus 802
Russell Brand will now fade into obscurity! Good. He always seemed like a dick.
Do not speak ill of dicks.
| 180 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:06:57am |
Yipee! #SocialismInEightWords is trending on Twitter. Here's my contribution.
| 181 |
Flounder Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:07:47am |
At 18 I didn't know effing thing, thought I did though.
| 184 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:11:52am |
re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
nice
There's a good dose of anti-capitalism talk here in there at that thread. Sheesh. A bunch of consumerist kiddies on their iPads™, iPhones™, Apple™ computers, Facebook™, Google™ apps, Microsoft™ apps and computers, making Tweets™ on Twitter™ which is partially owned by JP Mogran Chase™.
| 185 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:14:04am |
re: #184 Gus 802
There will always be a lead group. Who else will eat the brie?
| 186 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:14:56am |
| 187 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:17:38am |
re: #185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There will always be a lead group. Who else will eat the brie?
Oh deffinately. Some folks seem to think that "socialism" is this happy nirvana where everyone is equal and makes a ton of money doing. Sort of like this stereotype they have of Europe. Which is not the case. Socialism still requires the maintenance of an upper class, corporations, industry and yes, capitalism in order to maintain, finance, social services. Socialism itself cannot survive in a vacuum within itself.
| 188 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:20:31am |
re: #186 Obdicut
I can do it in three:
Just another system.
Or:
Depends on context.
Well in this context on Twitter I would say, just some naive trend and a chance to rage against your parents the machine!
| 189 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:22:13am |
We should go back to bartering seashells.
MONGOLIKESEASHELLS!
| 190 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:23:43am |
re: #189 Varek Raith
We should go back to bartering seashells.
MONGOLIKESEASHELLS!
Did you figure out yet how to use the three sea shells?
| 191 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:24:18am |
re: #190 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Did you figure out yet how to use the three sea shells?
Nope.
| 192 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:24:59am |
re: #187 Gus 802
You can have socialism without capitalism, I just wouldn't recommend it. Or, rather, capitalism springs up even in absolutely communist countries, so it's better to work with it rather than repress it completely.
The meaning of socialism appears to be completely nebulous at the moment. Social services provided by the government are not socialism. Calling them that was the idea of the GOP and right-wing media; I have no idea why the 'left' types are using that definition too. It's a very dumb one.
A good example of socialism would be public energy utilities; rather than having private energy companies, have the utility be owned by the public since it serves the public good and everyone, basically, is a customer. Public power is something I highly support, and comparisons between private and public power companies show a lot better results for public ones.
That's real socialism: Social ownership of the means of production.
Food stamps are not socialism. They're just a good idea.
| 193 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:25:16am |
re: #189 Varek Raith
We should go back to bartering seashells.
MONGOLIKESEASHELLS!
She sells sea shells at the sea shore.
Eight words! Socialismo!
//
| 194 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:25:58am |
re: #190 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Did you figure out yet how to use the three sea shells?
[Link: www.i-mockery.com...]
| 196 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:27:57am |
| 197 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:28:06am |
| 198 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:35:38am |
The last Saturday of the year, and here I am on the web. I feel like I should do something constructive...like finally finishing Skyrim.
| 199 |
Flounder Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:49:42am |
Here's something we can all argue about (except you FBV)
Post's video games of the year: [Link: www.nypost.com...]
I don't play sports games at all tho...
| 200 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:51:38am |
re: #199 Shropshire_Slasher
Have you ever read this awesome game review/commentary site?
| 201 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:53:05am |
re: #199 Shropshire_Slasher
Here's something we can all argue about (except you FBV)
Post's video games of the year: [Link: www.nypost.com...]
I don't play sports games at all tho...
Allow me to respond to the authors of that article in a reasoned, mature manner: SELL-OUTS!
| 203 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:57:36am |
Oh brother: #capitalismineightwords
It's trending.
| 204 |
Kronocide Sat, Dec 31, 2011 6:58:32am |
re: #203 Gus 802
Oh brother: #capitalismineightwords
It's trending.
Those who have the gold make the rules.
| 206 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:04:00am |
Apparently all of the anti-capitalist posers put it at over capacity. Gotta love it. Twitter which helped in many ways to facilitate the "Arab spring." And a bunch of people that worship the technological corporations that helped make this world smaller through the help of capitalist endeavors like Apple, Google, Twitter, Microsoft, and so on.
| 207 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:09:54am |
I have work to accomplish this weekend, enjoy the rest of the day folks. If you're headed out for amateur night tonight, be careful! See you all next year.
| 208 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:15:30am |
re: #204 BigPapa
Those who have the gold make the rules.
Yep. I just finished a Pall Mall™ while smoking outside. It's windy outside and picked up the Dunkin Donuts™ plastic bag being blown by the wind while this Jet Blu™ Airbus™ A320 was flying over so I can back to this Toshiba™ laptop. Drinking some Pete's™ coffee over here while downloading an addon for Microsoft™ FSX™ which I just reinstalled on my new computer with an Intel™ i5 2500K CPU on an ASUA™ P8P67 Deluxe mobo. The OS on that is Windows™ 7 Professional. It's a little cool in here but I have this Pelonis™ portable heater keeping me warm because these Target™ fleece pants don't exactly keep me warm.
| 209 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:18:08am |
re: #208 Gus 802
Yep. I just finished a Pall Mall™ while smoking outside. It's windy outside and picked up the Dunkin Donuts™ plastic bag being blown by the wind while this Jet Blu™ Airbus™ A320 was flying over so I can back to this Toshiba™ laptop. Drinking some Pete's™ coffee over here while downloading an addon for Microsoft™ FSX™ which I just reinstalled on my new computer with an Intel™ i5 2500K CPU on an ASUA™ P8P67 Deluxe mobo. The OS on that is Windows™ 7 Professional. It's a little cool in here but I have this Pelonis™ portable heater keeping me warm because these Target™ fleece pants don't exactly keep me warm.
Capitalist stooge!!!
///
| 210 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:18:14am |
re: #206 Gus 802
Those endeavors aren't actually capitalist, though. I mean, they exist inside capitalism, but they're not the essence of capitalism. The people investing in those companies are the capitalists; the people doing the work, even the business-savy dealing and wheeling, are not capitalists. They're labor. Those who are there at the beginning and get some stock options for their labor are not capitalists, they're labor being rewarded with capital. But Apple isn't just those dudes who founded it and invested it-- it is mainly the people who labor that make Apple successful.
Now, in countries that repress capitalism, like Cuba or the USSR, consumer products sucked, because there wasn't a lot of incentive to compete, to innovate, since you didn't profit any more by doing so-- you can't be an investor, it just doesn't exist, and as a laborer you won't get paid more or rewarded for innovation, you have to follow whatever planned economy goals are going on. You can actually get penalized for innovation.
But even then, the reason why products are nifty and cool and various in the US and other 'capitalist' countries is not just because of the capitalists who invest in companies, the laborers who make the products, the inventors who design them, but also because the consumers have money to spend in a free fashion. That aspect of freedom is something that a lot of people conflate with capitalism, but it really isn't.
And that's the part we're losing now-- the purchasing power of the laborer-- and that's going to keep driving our economy down, down down, and why all the banks and the rest are sitting on the cash; there's no demand.
| 211 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:26:11am |
In other news, my brother gave me this for Christmas:
| 212 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:30:33am |
| 213 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:31:28am |
re: #212 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
It's also not that good an album, but there's a few gems on it.
But yeah, it's main use is definitely to leave lying around highly visible to derail people in the middle of conversations.
| 214 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:31:46am |
re: #212 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
MY EYES! I'M BLIND!
Fess up
You have an outfit just like that!!
NTTAWWT!!!
| 215 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:33:42am |
re: #214 sattv4u2
Fess up
You have an outfit just like that!!
NTTAWWT!!!
You've been going through my things again, haven't you?!
///
| 216 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:34:19am |
re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
You've been going through my things again, haven't you?!
///
Sorry
I needed something "frilly" for tonight!
| 217 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:35:30am |
re: #216 sattv4u2
Sorry
I needed something "frilly" for tonight!
Second drawer down on the left side.
| 218 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:51:52am |
Let me offer you a new twist on this.
USSR system was, for all intents and purposes, a state capitalism.
DOWN WITH CAPITALISM!!!
//
| 219 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:56:23am |
re: #218 Sergey Romanov
Let me offer you a new twist on this.
USSR system was, for all intents and purposes, a state capitalism.DOWN WITH CAPITALISM!!!
//
Woot! You know one of my favorite memes is something to the effect of "well that really wasn't Communism." Some will declare in negation of Communism, "well look at what Communism did to Russia!" which is followed with a short and swift cliche, "well that really wasn't Communism!"
Well, in theory they weren't in the pure academic sense. And in theory then neither was/is China, Cuba, North Korea, and so on. Why wouldn't you know it there's never been a Communist state that ever existed!
I think I found a new (?) "no true Scotsman." We can replace it with "no true Communist."
I say with tongue somewhat firmly in cheek.
| 220 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:56:45am |
re: #218 Sergey Romanov
Heh. Yeah. It sure as shit wasn't collective ownership.
| 221 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 7:58:45am |
re: #219 Gus 802
There are a few places that have things that could be called true Communism, though obviously that's always debatable. The Mondragon Corporation is probably the most interesting. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
And it all depends on what you mean by Communism. Marx though Communism would be stateless, basically, and though a lot of very weird shit about social arrangements. Who defines communism?
| 222 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:10:49am |
re: #219 Gus 802
The point lost on them is whether or not they were true Communist ideologies, they are the only attempts to actually build Communism that we know of, and all of them were gigantic failures.
| 223 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:11:33am |
re: #221 Obdicut
There are a few places that have things that could be called true Communism, though obviously that's always debatable. The Mondragon Corporation is probably the most interesting. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
And it all depends on what you mean by Communism. Marx though Communism would be stateless, basically, and though a lot of very weird shit about social arrangements. Who defines communism?
If that's the case then like I alluded to above, no Communist state ever existed then if it's only valid if defined by a puritan reading of Karl Marx or Leon Trotsky's writings. Therefore it serves no purpose to call them Communist states? Therefore what happens when someone use the identifier, Communism, to generally describe a state?
Does it then become a "neu-think" misnomer? Do we therefore have to go back and re-write the history books about the Cold War and strike out the descriptor, Communist, for the Soviet Union and replace it with the soup du jour interpretation of the day? Or do we merely accept it as Communist?
Or is it really just a defensive mechanism in defense of Communism, Marxism, EIEIO? "Well Che Guevara and Stalin, they really weren't Communists." And neither was Mao.
| 224 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:12:24am |
re: #221 Obdicut
One needs to distinguish between Communism as an ideology and Communism as a future state of things. No communist state has claimed that communism has already been built, to my knowledge. In that sense, they weren't "Communisms" either, because, exactly, Communism is global.
| 225 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:14:03am |
Remember when Rachael Maddow told us diplomatic negotiations with Iran had been outlawed recently?
Iran, world powers to hold nuclear talks
Attar said negotiations have been held to prepare another round of talks between Iran and the so-called 5+1 group, which includes Germany and the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council -- the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China.
| 226 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:14:43am |
re: #223 Gus 802
They were Communist states because they followed the variations of Communist ideology. They weren't states that had achieved Communism, and they self-defined as socialist states (i.e. "on the way there...").
| 227 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:16:24am |
re: #225 Killgore Trout
If the US participates only due to some "waivers", that doesn't mean that Maddow is wrong*. That only means there are ways to get around the alleged laws.
---
* I'm not saying she is not wrong.
| 228 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:16:42am |
re: #226 Sergey Romanov
They were Communist states because they followed the variations Communist ideology. They weren't states that had achieved Communism, and they self-defined as socialist states (i.e. "on the way there...").
Sounds good to me. I sometimes hate to get stuck on minutia.
| 229 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:16:51am |
re: #223 Gus 802
If that's the case then like I alluded to above, no Communist state ever existed then if it's only valid if defined by a puritan reading of Karl Marx or Leon Trotsky's writings. Therefore it serves no purpose to call them Communist states? Therefore what happens when someone use the identifier, Communism, to generally describe a state?
I think the state communism definition has overtaken the abstract one, precisely because we've never really seen the real one in action in a state. What I mean is that I don't think communism actually 'works', not in terms of practicality or anything but that it can never actually get implemented. There's too much communication barrier. The times it works well is when it's entirely internal to a company, like Mondragon, but that's not state stuff.
Or is it really just a defensive mechanism in defense of Communism, Marxism, EIEIO? "Well Che Guevara and Stalin, they really weren't Communists." And neither was Mao.
I wouldn't call it a defense, really. it's kind of like hardcore Anarcho-Libertarians. When your defense is saying "Nobody who has ever tried this has ever gotten anywhere close to it, or nobody has ever really tried it", it's not really selling it that well.
| 230 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:18:23am |
re: #227 Sergey Romanov
If the US participates only due to some "waivers", that doesn't mean that Maddow is wrong*. That only means there are ways to get around the alleged laws.
---
* I'm not saying she is not wrong.
Is there a Latin phrase for being wrong in the future?
//
| 231 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:18:43am |
re: #228 Gus 802
Sounds good to me. I sometimes hate to get stuck on minutia.
I often go through minutia, as you know. Without offense intended! ;)
| 232 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:20:40am |
It's like, Christianity is an apocalyptic religion, but the apocalypse hasn't actually happened (nor will it ever happen).
| 233 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:22:00am |
re: #232 Sergey Romanov
It's like, Christianity is an apocalyptic religion, but the apocalypse hasn't actually happened (nor will it ever happen).
Earlier I was thinking "well the Catholic Church isn't really a Christian church [since they don't really reflect the Christian ideal]."
//
| 234 |
palomino Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:24:11am |
Gotta feel sorry for TX. They're stuck with this know-nothing Christianist bigot turd for another 3 full years.
Just saw his latest ad. It mostly features his wife proclaiming that "we need to return Christian values to DC." Any ideas what such a phrase is code for? My guess is it's a not too subtle reminder that Obama is a Muslim and DC is run by fags. She's nearly as disgusting as her hubby.
| 235 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:26:31am |
Victoria Nuland - State Department
Spokesperson
Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
December 29, 2011
QUESTION: Given these threats from Iran, how concerned is the U.S. with possible terrorist attacks toward shipping containers in the straits?
MS. NULAND: Again, I’m not going to go any further on Hormuz. I think that our Navy spokeswoman spoke for all of us in expressing our expectation that the straits will stay free and open for international navigation.
| 236 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:27:29am |
See that?
I think that our Navy spokeswoman spoke for all of us...
Shwing!
| 238 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:34:48am |
| 239 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:34:49am |
With Mixed Results, Ron Paul Tries To Terrify Small Town Iowa
Ron Paul stood before a crowded public library conference room here and warned the packed house that the United Nations is coming to take their land and that America is this close to riots in the streets against a government that is becoming more and more like a dictatorship.
Though he was well-received, these two classic Paulisms fell somewhat flat.
| 240 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:36:09am |
re: #238 Sergey Romanov
Now that we can herd cats, let's do something about the congressional Dems! //
Don't worry, Cenk Uygur is working on that.
//
| 241 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:36:15am |
Mornin' everyone...last day of 2011...time for my 2011 resolutions.
1. No Tequila before breakfast.
2. Try not to say "fuck" so much. (that's a hard one and I don't think I'll make it to 2012, but I'll fucking' try)
Two is enough. I don't want to set myself up for failure.
| 242 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:36:36am |
re: #239 Lidane
With Mixed Results, Ron Paul Tries To Terrify Small Town Iowa
He should try telling them there's going to be a shortage of bacon and that their TV's would turn off halfway through the bowl games.
That'd scare anyone.
| 243 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:36:52am |
Don't like discipline, but respond well to material incentives? It's like, "that's a bingo!" ///
| 244 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:37:18am |
re: #241 darthstar
Substitute a different word. The Princess asked a friend to stop using it so much, so the girl started using "Francine" instead.
I guess it was hilarious.
| 245 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:37:44am |
re: #243 Sergey Romanov
Don't like discipline, but respond well to material incentives? It's like, "that's a bingo!" ///
Capitalist cat?
//
| 246 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:37:46am |
re: #240 Gus 802
Don't worry, Cenk Uygur is working on that.
//
I don't know what it is about that guy, but I can't stand him on TV.
| 248 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:40:00am |
re: #244 EmmmieG
Substitute a different word. The Princess asked a friend to stop using it so much, so the girl started using "Francine" instead.
I guess it was hilarious.
It would probably be easier to just stay offline for the rest of the year, though that is a Francinining good idea.
| 249 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:40:52am |
re: #246 darthstar
I don't know what it is about that guy, but I can't stand him on TV.
From what old DK reactions to him I've seen, he's not quite popular there either. Would you say so?
| 250 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:41:36am |
re: #247 Lidane
Here's a fun way to end 2011:
Gingrich would look at Sarah Palin in the shower if Callista would let him...he loves his country that much.
| 251 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:42:31am |
re: #249 Sergey Romanov
From what old DK reactions to him I've seen, he's not quite popular there either. Would you say so?
CU is a neo-Paulbot and a Greenwald fanboy.
| 252 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:43:59am |
re: #249 Sergey Romanov
From what old DK reactions to him I've seen, he's not quite popular there either. Would you say so?
His "young turks" videos did okay, but I don't think they were all that popular. I was shocked when MSNBC gave him a shot. I think it was a measured gamble on their part, like CNN hiring that douchebag bigot Erickson.
| 253 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:44:21am |
re: #251 Gus 802
Zealotry of the "convert". He was a Republican for a long time.
(I'm not saying every ex-conservative is like that. Markos, for example, seems a moderate guy.)
| 254 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:44:26am |
re: #251 Gus 802
CU is a neo-Paulbot and a Greenwald fanboy.
Greenwald is also quiet the neo-Paulbot himself. Both equally deranged. Anyone that wants Obama to win in this election should either a) ignore both completely or b) ridicule both profusely and often.
| 255 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:45:35am |
re: #254 Gus 802
It's important to critique every President. But purist nonsense, as well as "he's as bad as everyone on every issue"/"corporate stooge" drivel drives me mad.
| 256 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:47:30am |
re: #239 Lidane
With Mixed Results, Ron Paul Tries To Terrify Small Town Iowa
Why the UN? Just scream "North America Union!" and watch the loons in the audience collectively shit a brick. Seriously, if you believe that we're in any danger of having the Constitution replaced with the UN Charter, then you need to spend a few hours in a place with padded walls.
| 257 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:48:07am |
Yeah, he's as bad as everyone, so vote for Romney, get the Supreme Court stuffed with far right loons, take away the rest of the civil liberties you so care about (allegedly), stop the progress for several decades, help the resurgence of the far right. Yeah. Sounds like a plan.
| 258 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:49:05am |
La, la, la...
'Iraq Day' marks deadline for U.S. withdrawal
TV stations aligned with Sunni and Shiite extremist groups, many of whom attacked U.S. troops, have dubbed it the "Day of Defeating the Occupier."
And so it begins. Right on the tail of closing an arms deal with Iraq. With the Turks going after the Kurds (again) and the Iraqi government going after the Kurds (again). Soon they'll be holding hands with Iran while the Saudis just closed a deal with an anti-missile defense system.
Good times. SOS.
| 259 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:50:54am |
As I've suggested in the past, we need a moonbat tag.
OBAMA BAD. BUT CHAVEZ GOOOD!!! *DROOL*
| 260 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:51:04am |
re: #256 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Why the UN? Just scream "North America Union!" and watch the loons in the audience collectively shit a brick. Seriously, if you believe that we're in any danger of having the Constitution replaced with the UN Charter, then you need to spend a few hours in a place with padded walls.
Why do all the nuts get to play in the bouncy castle? And when is someone going to build an adult-sized bouncy castle? One with 20 foot drops between levels and large breasted women serving beer.
| 261 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:52:26am |
Soon with the aid of our Bronze Age Skyhook we will lead our people to eternal victory!
//
| 262 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:52:38am |
re: #258 Gus 802
La, la, la...
'Iraq Day' marks deadline for U.S. withdrawal
TV stations aligned with Sunni and Shiite extremist groups, many of whom attacked U.S. troops, have dubbed it the "Day of Defeating the Occupier."
And so it begins. Right on the tail of closing an arms deal with Iraq. With the Turks going after the Kurds (again) and the Iraqi government going after the Kurds (again). Soon they'll be holding hands with Iran while the Saudis just closed a deal with an anti-missile defense system.
Good times. SOS.
But...but...but what about that functional democracy that Bush installed, which was a shining beacon to the Muslim world and a symbol of just how much the people want to live in peace?!
///
| 263 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:54:26am |
re: #262 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
But...but...but what about that functional democracy that Bush installed, which was a shining beacon to the Muslim world and a symbol of just how much the people want to live in peace?!
///
Yeah. All things aside but I happen to think that it's a little more complicated than just Bush and the Iraq War. This is decades long process. In fact, it's span 1000s of years and when push comes to shove, and in the end, the responsibility lies within the culture of the people of Iraq and the region. Until then, Bush, the USA, us, are just a footnote in a long history of failure.
| 264 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:56:03am |
re: #263 Gus 802
Yeah. All things aside but I happen to think that it's a little more complicated than just Bush and the Iraq War. This is decades long process. In fact, it's span 1000s of years and when push comes to shove, and in the end, the responsibility lies within the culture of the people of Iraq and the region. Until then, Bush, the USA, us, are just a footnote in a long history of failure.
But instead, and like a bunch of fools, we set ourselves up so now instead of pointing to a failed culture and society they now get to simply blame Bush. But it's not Bush in the eyes of those that hate us. (Yes people still hate us around the world). They're going to blame the USA, Israel, and you here who happen to be Americans.
| 265 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:56:20am |
As for AGW? I will honestly say that I'm of the mind that even if you had the most liberal Congress and President ever, if you passed all the necessary laws - the world is still fucked. US is just one player. Time to think about geoengineering. And yes, that sucks, because it doesn't begin to solve some serious problems (like acidification of the ocean). But, let's face it, the emissions won't diminish in time.
| 266 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:59:24am |
re: #258 Gus 802
La, la, la...
'Iraq Day' marks deadline for U.S. withdrawal
TV stations aligned with Sunni and Shiite extremist groups, many of whom attacked U.S. troops, have dubbed it the "Day of Defeating the Occupier."
Someone tell Rick Perry we found his parade.
/
| 268 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 8:59:46am |
re: #263 Gus 802
Yeah. All things aside but I happen to think that it's a little more complicated than just Bush and the Iraq War. This is decades long process. In fact, it's span 1000s of years and when push comes to shove, and in the end, the responsibility lies within the culture of the people of Iraq and the region. Until then, Bush, the USA, us, are just a footnote in a long history of failure.
And that's the reality of the situation, despite the excuse-making and blame-throwing in coming months aimed towards Obama. We were the only thing that was keeping the very shaky house of cards from collapsing upon itself. Our presence there was simply allowing the old blood feuds, the sectarian hatred, to simmer below the surface. Removing us from the equation just returned things to their natural state.
Really, the three-state option is the one we should have enacted. Trying to keep a nation of three peoples who are openly hostile to each other unified was an exercise in futility.
| 269 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:01:53am |
Obama did the right thing in Iraq. He let Bush's contract with the Iraqis expire, and then he got us the fuck out.
| 270 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:02:18am |
re: #265 Sergey Romanov
As for AGW? I will honestly say that I'm of the mind that even if you had the most liberal Congress and President ever, if you passed all the necessary laws - the world is still fucked. US is just one player. Time to think about geoengineering. And yes, that sucks, because it doesn't begin to solve some serious problems (like acidification of the ocean). But, let's face it, the emissions won't dimish in time.
I didn't get an iPhone for Christmas therefore I want new parents! I did get some other things during the year. Still! I wanted an iPhone damn it! Screw them! I want new parents!
[Slams door.]
//
| 271 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:03:09am |
re: #270 Gus 802
Humans.
| 272 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:03:48am |
I'm gonna label myself a misanthropic humanist.
Can't help hating'em. Can't help loving'em.
| 273 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:04:45am |
re: #271 Sergey Romanov
Humans.
Yeah. Can you imagine that? A president that doesn't fulfill ALL of his (and in the future her) campaign promises? A president that realigns his policy platform to meet real world needs? What a concept. What a historical first!
//
| 274 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:05:49am |
So yeah! Take that Obama! I hope Romney wins. That'll teach the Democrats to be more "progressive."
Worked in the past!
//
| 275 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:06:43am |
re: #274 Gus 802
Gotta punch something. //
| 277 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:09:02am |
re: #276 Gus 802
Obama moderate? What a scary concept. Go vote for Kucinich. He competes with Alex Jones for the King of Mars office. //
| 278 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:09:08am |
Heck. Look how well Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern, Ted Kennedy and Walter Mondale did in the previous presidential races.
//
| 279 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:10:19am |
(And then, the second Kucinich becomes the King of Mars, he reveals himself as a corporate sellout. Always happens.)
| 280 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:10:59am |
re: #277 Sergey Romanov
Obama moderate? What a scary concept. Go vote for Kucinich. He competes with Alex Jones for the King of Mars office. //
But not Rock Star from Mars, because Charlie Sheen's already claimed that title.
//
| 281 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:11:08am |
re: #277 Sergey Romanov
Obama moderate? What a scary concept. Go vote for Kucinich. He competes with Alex Jones for the King of Mars office. //
NDAA! Patriot act! Warrantless wiretapping! Obama must go! GITMO!
//Actual emoprog grievances I read this morning.
| 282 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:11:28am |
Okay...time to help my wife get ready for the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl or Stop Hunger Bowl...no, I'm not going...no interest in college football unless it's on TV.
Back in a while.
| 283 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:13:02am |
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum. I guess I'll go home then.
| 285 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:14:49am |
That's alright, I just heard a pundit the other day tell me that, in his "expert" opinion, the Obama team is likely going to bring in voters next year by making Biden and Hillary switch places, running an Obama-Clinton ticket to bring in the wishy-washy liberals.
| 286 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:15:27am |
re: #281 Gus 802
NDAA! Patriot act! Warrantless wiretapping! Obama must go! GITMO!
//Actual emoprog grievances I read this morning.
Koskidz are upset about Iran this morning too. I think Iran is probably going to be the biggest hurdle for Obama. Something's probably going to have to happen before the next election and I'm not sure the progressives can keep their shit together over it. We might also be looking at Israeli action in Gaza (and possibly Sinai too) in the next year. It's going to be a problem.
| 287 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:19:04am |
re: #286 Killgore Trout
Koskidz are upset about Iran this morning too. I think Iran is probably going to be the biggest hurdle for Obama. Something's probably going to have to happen before the next election and I'm not sure the progressives can keep their shit together over it. We might also be looking at Israeli action in Gaza (and possibly Sinai too) in the next year. It's going to be a problem.
Israel and Gaza I can see happening. Maybe. But I don't see anything happening in Iran just yet. It's a little heated and there's been a lot of saber rattling but I still don't see anything happening for another two years or so.
I could be wrong. And if anything does happen in Iran there won't be anything close to an invasion. It will be limited to a deep penetration strike if you will of their nuclear facilities. A little beyond that perhaps their naval facilities. But no boots on the ground invasion in the foreseeable future.
| 288 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:20:06am |
re: #287 Gus 802
I think that any "invasion" would be suicidal.
| 289 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:21:44am |
At around 2003 or so I wrote that any measures should be taken to prevent Iran from getting nukes. I've become much more moderate on the issue since then, but I don't know the answers. I would trust Obama on this issue. I would not trust anyone in the GOP pool.
| 290 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:21:53am |
re: #287 Gus 802
Israel and Gaza I can see happening. Maybe. But I don't see anything happening in Iran just yet. It's a little heated and there's been a lot of saber rattling but I still don't see anything happening for another two years or so.
I could be wrong. And if anything does happen in Iran there won't be anything close to an invasion. It will be limited to a deep penetration strike if you will of their nuclear facilities. A little beyond that perhaps their naval facilities. But no boots on the ground invasion in the foreseeable future.
And yet, it would take an invasion and occupation to attain the supposed goal of any sanctions or military strike, namely bring Iranian nuclear weapons production to a halt. Anything less would accomplish only two things: Slow development and kill pro-US sentiments amongst the population.
| 291 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:22:04am |
re: #288 Sergey Romanov
I think that any "invasion" would be suicidal.
Yeah. First off we'd have to deal with Russia and China then. Lots of rumbling (if we're lucky) in the background. More so Russia. Then there would be the difficulty of a confrontation itself given the relative strength of the Iranian ground army. In any event, it's not necessary.
| 292 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:22:50am |
re: #290 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
And yet, it would take an invasion and occupation to attain the supposed goal of any sanctions or military strike, namely bring Iranian nuclear weapons production to a halt. Anything less would accomplish only two things: Slow development and kill pro-US sentiments amongst the population.
just whack them every six months or so
| 293 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:24:11am |
re: #291 Gus 802
I'm hoping for infiltrators. I'm also hoping for an accidental explosion that kills off Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad in one fell swoop. "You, you may say. I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
| 294 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:24:54am |
re: #290 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
And yet, it would take an invasion and occupation to attain the supposed goal of any sanctions or military strike, namely bring Iranian nuclear weapons production to a halt. Anything less would accomplish only two things: Slow development and kill pro-US sentiments amongst the population.
That too. It's really damned if you do, damned if you don't. While an airstrike might neutralize any future nuclear threat it would embolden them and provide a propaganda victory. In essence it would all the regime in power now to say, "see, what did we tell you?" We have to proceed very slowly here. The ultimate goal should remain diplomacy in hopes that they come to their senses at least until a time that the people within Iran institute a regime change themselves.
| 295 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:26:20am |
re: #293 Sergey Romanov
I'm hoping for infiltrators. I'm also hoping for an accidental explosion that kills off Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad in one fell swoop. "You, you may say. I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Maybe we can use our sekrit Cancer Rayguns at him!
//
| 296 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:26:49am |
re: #295 Gus 802
Maybe we can use our sekrit Cancer Rayguns at him!
//
Send Zombie Ray-gun to deal with the issue!//
| 297 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:27:04am |
re: #294 Gus 802
That too. It's really damned if you do, damned if you don't. While an airstrike might neutralize any future nuclear threat it would embolden them and provide a propaganda victory. In essence it would all the regime in power now to say, "see, what did we tell you?" We have to proceed very slowly here. The ultimate goal should remain diplomacy in hopes that they come to their sense at least until a time that the people within Iran institute a regime change themselves.
Exactly. No aggressive moves, no signs that we're not open to diplomacy. Continue to convince the population that we, not the Mullahs or Dinnerjacket, are the ones interested in what's best for the Iranian people. Make the whole situation look like their government is the one spoiling for war, not the other way around.
| 298 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:28:25am |
re: #296 Sergey Romanov
Send Zombie Ray-gun to deal with the issue!//
"My fellow Americans. I'm pleased to announce that I've signed legislation outlawing the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad regime of Iran. We begin bombing in five minutes."
//
| 299 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:29:45am |
BTW, I discard the argument that the Iranian powers-that-be are not like the Soviets in caring for their children. Their anti-Western and anti-Israel rhetoric is worse than the Soviet one, but I also think that ultimately they're not "like" Taliban, if you know what I mean. I think MAD *is* possible with Iran.
| 300 |
Wozza Matter? Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:33:08am |
re: #299 Sergey Romanov
BTW, I discard the argument that the Iranian powers-that-be are not like the Soviets in caring for their children. Their anti-Western and anti-Israel rhetoric is worse than the Soviet one, but I also think that ultimately they're not "like" Taliban, if you know what I mean. I think MAD *is* possible with Iran.
They have shown every time we ramp up they respond.
It's pretty much definitional.
| 301 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:33:28am |
re: #299 Sergey Romanov
BTW, I discard the argument that the Iranian powers-that-be are not like the Soviets in caring for their children. Their anti-Western and anti-Israel rhetoric is worse than the Soviet one, but I also think that ultimately they're not "like" Taliban, if you know what I mean. I think MAD *is* possible with Iran.
I think, to some degree, we may find ourselves needing to make do with the idea of a nuclear Iran, same as we have with a nuclear North Korea. At this stage, the only alternative is invasion and prolonged occupation, which would do nothing to endear us to the region and would likely further destabilize the current political situation with our "allies."
| 302 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:33:32am |
re: #299 Sergey Romanov
BTW, I discard the argument that the Iranian powers-that-be are not like the Soviets in caring for their children. Their anti-Western and anti-Israel rhetoric is worse than the Soviet one, but I also think that ultimately they're not "like" Taliban, if you know what I mean. I think MAD *is* possible with Iran.
MAD could theoretically work with Israel vs. Iran. With Iran vs. USA that would be more like GDOI -- guaranteed destruction of Iran.
I say hypothetically and theoretically.
| 303 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:34:04am |
re: #300 wozzablog
I have no doubt they would turn Israel and the US into glass parking lots if given chance. But not at the expense of themselves being turned into a glass desert.
| 304 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:34:35am |
re: #287 Gus 802
I could be wrong. And if anything does happen in Iran there won't be anything close to an invasion. It will be limited to a deep penetration strike if you will of their nuclear facilities. A little beyond that perhaps their naval facilities. But no boots on the ground invasion in the foreseeable future.
I think you're right on that. We seem to know where most of the important stuff is located and it's probably not too difficult to derail their program indefinitely.
| 305 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:36:01am |
re: #304 Killgore Trout
I think you're right on that. We seem to know where most of the important stuff is located and it's probably not too difficult to derail their program indefinitely.
fuck up their power, roads, water etc....not real difficult
| 306 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:36:33am |
And the Iranian youth makes me hope for the best.
| 307 |
Wozza Matter? Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:37:53am |
I quite like this, toleration and alcohol.
[Link: www.vevo.com...]
| 308 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:40:36am |
re: #305 albusteve
fuck up their power, roads, water etc...not real difficult
I would guess that we'll probably leave most of the civilian infrastructure in tact to avoid a humanitarian crisis but all the centrifuges, enrichment facilities, reactors, research labs, etc can be destroyed at our convenience. I suspect we'd also take out any large concentrations of military equipment (tanks, planes, boats, missile launchers) just so they don't go apeshit by invading Iraq or something as a reprisal.
| 309 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:40:45am |
re: #304 Killgore Trout
I think you're right on that. We seem to know where most of the important stuff is located and it's probably not too difficult to derail their program indefinitely.
We liberal-left may rail against CIA (and the like) sometimes, but this is the issue where I'm putting best hopes on them.
| 310 |
Wozza Matter? Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:41:29am |
re: #306 Sergey Romanov
And the Iranian youth makes me hope for the best.
Nothing wrong with the Iranian youth. Already into rock and roll music and whisky and fornicating.
They get beat up by the secret police then go back to the dive bars and basements.
However - if their country is attacked they will fall in line to defend it.
(Got a foreign correspondent pal)
| 311 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:44:06am |
re: #310 wozzablog
However - if their country is attacked they will fall in line to defend it.
(Got a foreign correspondent pal)
Yes! I know. That's one of the reasons I'm wary of the outright invasion. Even the air attacks will do that, but that would be the necessary evil. They might get over it.
One of the best people I know is an Iranian engineer (living in Duesseldorf). He's totally anti-Ayatollah/anti-Dinnerjacket, but he's pro-atomic stations. I don't know where his sympathies would lie in the case of air strikes, and I wouldn't blame him anyway. But what needs to be done needs to be done.
| 312 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:46:05am |
re: #308 Killgore Trout
I would guess that we'll probably leave most of the civilian infrastructure in tact to avoid a humanitarian crisis but all the centrifuges, enrichment facilities, reactors, research labs, etc can be destroyed at our convenience. I suspect we'd also take out any large concentrations of military equipment (tanks, planes, boats, missile launchers) just so they don't go apeshit by invading Iraq or something as a reprisal.
I'm speaking of infrastructure that supports the nuke facilities, especially power stations...crater any air strips, highways...easy pickins
| 313 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:46:20am |
I changed my mind about working today. I'm still tired from the Iowa trip, I'll do it tomorrow.
re: #239 Lidane
With Mixed Results, Ron Paul Tries To Terrify Small Town Iowa
Sioux Center is a screwed up town. 15 years ago no store was allowed to be open on a sunday. When Wal-Mart moved in they cut a deal that allowed them to open for 4 hours on sunday. Now I believe it's a 24-hour store.
When we pulled into Davenport IA the other day there were Paulites on every corner. For some reason it struck me funny, I'd like to see what happens if he wins IA (although I still think he'll be a distant 3rd).
| 314 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:47:23am |
re: #313 RogueOne
I changed my mind about working today. I'm still tired from the Iowa trip, I'll do it tomorrow.
Sioux Center is a screwed up town. 15 years ago no store was allowed to be open on a sunday. When Wal-Mart moved in they cut a deal that allowed them to open for 4 hours on sunday. Now I believe it's a 24-hour store.
When we pulled into Davenport IA the other day there were Paulites on every corner. For some reason it struck me funny, I'd like to see what happens if he wins IA (although I still think he'll be a distant 3rd).
Mañana!
| 315 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:48:44am |
re: #311 Sergey Romanov
Yes! I know. That's one of the reasons I'm wary of the outright invasion. Even the air attacks will do that, but that would be the necessary evil. They might get over it.
One of the best people I know is an Iranian engineer (living in Duesseldorf). He's totally anti-Ayatollah/anti-Dinnerjacket, but he's pro nuclear atomic stations. I don't know where his sympathies would lie in the case of air strikes, and I wouldn't blame him anyway. But what needs to be done needs to be done.
My boss is an Iranian ex-pat, came over in '73, but still has family back there. And in our discussions over the years, it's become clear that he A) supported the ideals of the Revolution, but not the end product, B) hates the government there now but supports his country, and C) blames the current hostility totally on the government. I've not asked him how he'd respond to US aerial strikes, but I get the impression that folks back home would not see the US as some sort of "good guy."
| 316 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:49:37am |
re: #272 Sergey Romanov
I'm gonna label myself a misanthropic humanist.
Can't help hating'em. Can't help loving'em.
There's a pill for that....
| 317 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:49:52am |
re: #315 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Nobody would. We can't demand or expect that. Surgery is never pretty or pleasant. It should, however, be limited to what is necessary.
| 318 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:52:24am |
re: #315 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
My boss is an Iranian ex-pat, came over in '73, but still has family back there. And in our discussions over the years, it's become clear that he A) supported the ideals of the Revolution, but not the end product, B) hates the government there now but supports his country, and C) blames the current hostility totally on the government. I've not asked him how he'd respond to US aerial strikes, but I get the impression that folks back home would not see the US as some sort of "good guy."
There is the case of Libya, NATO, USA, France, et al.
| 322 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:53:42am |
| 323 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:53:58am |
re: #317 Sergey Romanov
Nobody would. We can't demand or expect that. Surgery is never pretty or pleasant. It should, however, be limited to what is necessary.
Are aerial strikes, even surgical strikes, necessary? Short of blowing up half the country, I don't see how any strikes will do more than delay a bomb by a matters of months or possibly a year. And the Iranian people are not just going to forgive and forget. Such strikes will trigger a "rally 'round the flag" mentality in the older generation, while the younger generation will either fall in line or face being accused of supporting the fall of their own country.
| 324 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:54:52am |
re: #242 EmmmieG
He should try telling them there's going to be a shortage of bacon and that their TV's would turn off halfway through the bowl games.
That'd scare anyone.
There is no such thing as a bacon shortage in IA. There are more 40x more pigs than people in that state. Pork capitol of the world! I don't know how they aren't the fattest state in the country but they have to be #1 in cholesterol.
| 326 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:56:45am |
re: #323 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
> Are aerial strikes, even surgical strikes, necessary?
Not up to me! #289.
| 327 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:56:56am |
re: #323 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Are aerial strikes, even surgical strikes, necessary? Short of blowing up half the country, I don't see how any strikes will do more than delay a bomb by a matters of months or possibly a year. And the Iranian people are not just going to forgive and forget. Such strikes will trigger a "rally 'round the flag" mentality in the older generation, while the younger generation will either fall in line or face being accused of supporting the fall of their own country.
any hostile behavior has risks...when diplomacy fails that's the option we have...however the gen pop views taking down their nukes is secondary...doing nothing is unacceptable
| 328 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:57:06am |
| 329 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:57:14am |
re: #323 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Are aerial strikes, even surgical strikes, necessary? Short of blowing up half the country, I don't see how any strikes will do more than delay a bomb by a matters of months or possibly a year. And the Iranian people are not just going to forgive and forget. Such strikes will trigger a "rally 'round the flag" mentality in the older generation, while the younger generation will either fall in line or face being accused of supporting the fall of their own country.
I think you're analysis is correct but if military strikes were restrained to strictly military targets (ships, planes, military infrastructure) the backlash from their population might not be so bad long-term.
| 330 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 9:59:41am |
re: #327 albusteve
any hostile behavior has risks...when diplomacy fails that's the option we have...however the gen pop views taking down their nukes is secondary...doing nothing is unacceptable
Why is it unacceptable? You honestly believe a nuclear Iran will commit national suicide just to hit one or even a handful of targets upon this globe? Their longest ranged missiles put them barely within reach of Europe. They possess no intercontinental bombers, no ballistic missile subs, not even a piece of nuclear artillery.
| 331 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:00:40am |
re: #293 Sergey Romanov
I'm hoping for infiltrators. I'm also hoping for an accidental explosion that kills off Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad in one fell swoop. "You, you may say. I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Maybe if we fire the bomb bird at them. If that doesn't work, we can try the super-fast bird.
| 332 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:01:20am |
I've fallen and I can't get up lost my Lydia and she doesn't return! :(
| 333 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:01:45am |
re: #330 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The only country that should be overly concerned is Israel. I don't think the Iranian regime is suicidal (they're more likely to push us than Israel...I think) but who knows. Religion does crazy things to people sometimes.
| 334 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:01:51am |
re: #329 RogueOne
I think you're analysis is correct but if military strikes were restrained to strictly military targets (ships, planes, military infrastructure) the backlash from their population might not be so bad long-term.
The backlash will be that the government will use such strikes as an excuse to bring the hammer down on homegrown anti-government sentiment. And they'll find ready supporters in the older generations, the ones who lived under the rule of the Shah and have no desire to see Iran made America's puppet again.
| 335 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:02:42am |
Cost benefit analysis. 20/20 foresight. What if we reach a point of no return? What if. What if.
| 336 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:03:15am |
We can't put the nuclear genie back in the the lamp.
| 337 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:03:22am |
re: #330 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Why is it unacceptable? You honestly believe a nuclear Iran will commit national suicide just to hit one or even a handful of targets upon this globe? Their longest ranged missiles put them barely within reach of Europe. They possess no intercontinental bombers, no ballistic missile subs, not even a piece of nuclear artillery.
gee whiz...how much is it worth to them and their proxies?
| 338 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:03:53am |
Happy New Year, everyone. Hope everyone has a good one!
| 339 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:04:49am |
re: #334 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The backlash will be that the government will use such strikes as an excuse to bring the hammer down on homegrown anti-government sentiment. And they'll find ready supporters in the older generations, the ones who lived under the rule of the Shah and have no desire to see Iran made America's puppet again.
that's speculation
| 340 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:04:58am |
The first person who can invent a device that quickly and painlessly opens clam shell packaging (or, as we all call it, !@#$ clam shell packaging) is going to be a millionaire.
| 341 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:05:51am |
re: #337 albusteve
gee whiz...how much is it worth to them and their proxies?
What, to sacrifice their nation just to hit a singular target? If the regime is so bug-fuck insane that we're willing to believe they'd commit Iran to national suicide simply to hit one target with a nuclear warhead, then diplomacy is pointless and we should begin preparations for the invasion now.
| 342 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:06:08am |
re: #336 Varek Raith
We can't put the nuclear genie back in the the lamp.
We'll meet again,
don't know where, don't know when,
But I know we'll meet again some sunny day
| 343 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:06:32am |
| 344 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:07:18am |
That's my second Dr. Strangelove reference.
Coming up next. Donald Rumsfeld.
We are in fact dealing with known unknowns regarding Iran's future nuclear capability.
| 345 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:07:30am |
re: #334 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The backlash will be that the government will use such strikes as an excuse to bring the hammer down on homegrown anti-government sentiment. And they'll find ready supporters in the older generations, the ones who lived under the rule of the Shah and have no desire to see Iran made America's puppet again.
They're willing to do that on their own, without any provocation, and still blame the U.S.. We can't let our concern about giving them a PR boost be a decisive reason to sit on our hands if they try something stupid like closing down the strait. The Iranian military isn't as highly regarded by the people like it was 30 years ago, if we give them a bloody nose people will get over it.
| 346 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:07:36am |
re: #339 albusteve
that's speculation
At this point, all we can do is engage in speculation. Difference is, my speculation is based upon past experience, which shows that most nations doesn't respond positively when the US blows up their countrymen in order to "defend" itself.
| 347 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:08:05am |
re: #344 Gus 802
Rumsfeld was full of shit, but this statement? I liked. Nuanced! ;)
| 348 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:09:10am |
re: #344 Gus 802
That's my second Dr. Strangelove reference.
Coming up next. Donald Rumsfeld.
We are in fact dealing with known unknowns regarding Iran's future nuclear capability.
Knowing what you don't know is extremely important.
Ever met someone who didn't know what they didn't know? Or, worse, didn't know and didn't care.
| 349 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:09:13am |
re: #345 RogueOne
They're willing to do that on their own, without any provocation, and still blame the U.S.. We can't let our concern about giving them a PR boost be a decisive reason to sit on our hands if they try something stupid like closing down the strait. The Iranian military isn't as highly regarded by the people like it was 30 years ago, if we give them a bloody nose people will get over it.
They're threatening to close down the strait because we're not simply threatening, but preparing to engage in, economic warfare. What, did you think we could enact stronger sanctions and they would do nothing in response?
| 350 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:09:28am |
re: #341 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
What, to sacrifice their nation just to hit a singular target? If the regime is so bug-fuck insane that we're willing to believe they'd commit Iran to national suicide simply to hit one target with a nuclear warhead, then diplomacy is pointless and we should begin preparations for the invasion now.
why invade?...you seem stuck on that...there is no logic to invasion
| 351 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:09:40am |
Now, the unknown unknows. They're a byotch.
| 352 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:10:28am |
Sigh.
You do realize Iran is quite capable of also giving us a bloody nose?
You think those Chinese-made antiship missiles are a joke?
| 353 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:10:31am |
re: #338 iceweasel
Happy New Year, everyone. Hope everyone has a good one!
Happy New Year to Jimmah and you!
| 354 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:11:06am |
re: #350 albusteve
why invade?...you seem stuck on that...there is no logic to invasion
Because it's the only means of reaching the supposed point of this endeavor, which is to bring Iranian nuclear weapons production to a permanent halt. Anything else is a half-measure, which will only delay the inevitable.
| 355 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:11:49am |
Greetings from the SoCal coast.
What is really telling to me about priorities in non proliferation is how North Korea developed, built, and tested at least one atomic warhead without military consequences.
Iran just gets to where NK was years and years ago and the war drums beat daily. I can't help but think the best way to deter the Iranian weapon program was to turn nuclear facilities into in North Korea soon after the first test. And we missed it.
This just begs all kinds of accusations about the Wests motives.
| 356 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:05am |
re: #353 Gus 802
Happy New Year to Jimmah and you!
Thanks Gus. :) Hope the new year brings you lots of good things.
| 357 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:08am |
re: #352 Varek Raith
Sigh.
You do realize Iran is quite capable of also giving us a bloody nose?
You think those Chinese-made antiship missiles are a joke?
Every ship in the Gulf is within range of them.
| 358 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:09am |
re: #346 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
At this point, all we can do is engage in speculation. Difference is, my speculation is based upon past experience, which shows that most nations doesn't respond positively when the US blows up their countrymen in order to "defend" itself.
tough shit...Iran is a rogue, terrorist state that has consistantly lied about their nuke program and will eventually pay for it...sooner the better
| 359 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:12am |
re: #351 Sergey Romanov
Now, the unknown unknows. They're a byotch.
One thing you always tell a new driver: Use your signal even when there's "nobody there." It's the ones you don't see that you hit.
And the ones you see but can't stop in time.
| 360 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:36am |
| 361 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:44am |
re: #354 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Because it's the only means of reaching the supposed point of this endeavor, which is to bring Iranian nuclear weapons production to a permanent halt. Anything else is a half-measure, which will only delay the inevitable.
whatever
| 362 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:12:57am |
re: #347 Sergey Romanov
Rumsfeld was full of shit, but this statement? I liked. Nuanced! ;)
Ditto on that. It really is a good "concept." Otherwise, Rumsfeld was a bit of a quack in wartime. He was good in peacetime during the re-organization of the DOD with regards to helping create the joint-services infrastructure. Robert Gates was a huge improvement though.
| 363 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:13:42am |
re: #349 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
They're threatening to close down the strait because we're not simply threatening, but preparing to engage in, economic warfare. What, did you think we could enact stronger sanctions and they would do nothing in response?
Isn't that part of the price we pay being part of a global society? If they're acting like an ass should the rest of the world have to sit back and take it? If they want to continue to play with us (the US and Europe) then they have to learn to play by the rules we establish. Nobody owes them a dime in trade, if they want it they have to act like it.
| 364 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:13:44am |
re: #338 iceweasel
Happy New Year, everyone. Hope everyone has a good one!
And the same to you too, er, two. ;-)
| 365 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:15:27am |
re: #352 Varek Raith
Sigh.
You do realize Iran is quite capable of also giving us a bloody nose?
You think those Chinese-made antiship missiles are a joke?
Yes, they're a joke. 30 year old revised crappy technology being used by poorly trained and unmotivated troops. If we decided we wanted to enforce a no-fly zone over Iran (which we don't and won't) we could get it done within a week.
| 366 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:15:33am |
I'll wait. We've been waiting for 1000s of years anyway. I have a few suggestions for Iran but they probably would not like them being the big ol' atheist that I am.
//
| 367 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:15:41am |
re: #358 albusteve
tough shit...Iran is a rogue, terrorist state that has consistantly lied about their nuke program and will eventually pay for it...sooner the better
Yeah, they've been constantly "lying" since the 80s, which is when the fear of a "nuclear Iran" started, with almost yearly predictions that they were just on the cusp of a developing and deploying an atomic stockpile. Who's running the intel on Iran's nuke program, Harold Camping?
| 368 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:16:48am |
re: #367 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, they've been constantly "lying" since the 80s, which is when the fear of a "nuclear Iran" started, with almost yearly predictions that they were just on the cusp of a developing and deploying an atomic stockpile. Who's running the intel on Iran's nuke program, Harold Camping?
The International Atomic Energy Agency! The UN me boy! The Blue Helmets!
//
| 370 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:18:14am |
re: #367 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The CIA won't know they have a nuclear weapon until it's actually tested. That's how we found out about India and Pakistan both.
| 371 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:19:05am |
re: #363 RogueOne
Isn't that part of the price we pay being part of a global society? If they're acting like an ass should the rest of the world have to sit back and take it? If they want to continue to play with us (the US and Europe) then they have to learn to play by the rules we establish. Nobody owes them a dime in trade, if they want it they have to act like it.
We're threatening to crimp the hose on their oil supply, they're responding in kind. Notice I say "threatening," because if they were truly the nutbars that we fear they are, then they'd already be running a blockade.
| 372 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:20:13am |
re: #370 RogueOne
Don't be so sure. The CIA critics love those stories, but another explanation is the knowledge was kept secret. Which seems likely given the culture of secrecy.
| 373 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:20:19am |
re: #370 RogueOne
The CIA won't know they have a nuclear weapon until it's actually tested. That's how we found out about India and Pakistan both.
Reminded of a line from The Siege:
"The CIA didn't know the Berlin Wall was coming down until bricks started hitting them in the head."
| 374 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:21:49am |
I see we haven't learned from Iraq.
Oh, it'll be easy!
Cake for all!
| 375 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:22:25am |
Someone say the CIA!?
Alex Jones! Gulf of Tonkin! Ronald Reagan! Ron Paul! Salvador Allende! NDAA! CIA Renditions! Obamabushhitlerrumsfeldwarcrimescodepink!
//
| 376 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:22:25am |
re: #374 Varek Raith
I see we haven't learned from Iraq.
Oh, it'll be easy!
Cake for all!
I used to be. Then.
| 377 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:23:00am |
re: #365 RogueOne
Yes, they're a joke. 30 year old revised crappy technology being used by poorly trained and unmotivated troops. If we decided we wanted to enforce a no-fly zone over Iran (which we don't and won't) we could get it done within a week.
You make a lot of assumptions in that post.
A lot.
I'd rather we overestimate Iran than to underestimate them.
| 378 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:23:10am |
re: #374 Varek Raith
I see we haven't learned from Iraq.
Oh, it'll be easy!
Cake for all!
They'll be showering our troops with roses! And it'll only cost a couple hundred billion!
//
| 379 |
Kronocide Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:23:59am |
re: #374 Varek Raith
I see we haven't learned from Iraq.
Oh, it'll be easy!
Yellow Cake for all!
There.
| 380 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:23:59am |
re: #372 Rightwingconspirator
Don't be so sure. The CIA critics love those stories, but another explanation is the knowledge was kept secret. Which seems likely given the culture of secrecy.
IMO the CIA is one step above incompetent. Those hoping that the CIA will pull a rabbit out of its hat and put a stop to the Iranians better be hoping someone else decides to do it instead. I say sub it out to the Mossad since the Jews are going to get blamed for it anyway.
| 382 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:27:20am |
re: #381 Gus 802
One thing is not like the other.
Iran ≠ Iraq
True, Iran is far more capable than Iraq ever was.
| 384 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:27:55am |
re: #373 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Reminded of a line from The Siege:
"The CIA didn't know the Berlin Wall was coming down until bricks started hitting them in the head."
I've told this story before....when I got my commission in '89 they sent me to an Armor division to work in the Intel shop while I waited for my clearance. I had senior division intel officers telling me on a daily basis the soviets were going to run us over because the current administration was pushing towards smaller unit tactics and moving away from massive tank fights. A year later the soviet union was gone.
| 385 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:28:55am |
re: #382 Varek Raith
True, Iran is far more capable than Iraq ever was.
Yes. And there's no plans for invading Iran as the USA invaded Iraq for whatever reason we did.
Notice how I said the USA invaded Iraq and not "Bush invaded Iraq."
| 386 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:29:35am |
re: #384 RogueOne
I've told this story before...when I got my commission in '89 they sent me to an Armor division to work in the Intel shop while I waited for my clearance. I had senior division intel officers telling me on a daily basis the soviets were going to run us over because the current administration was pushing towards smaller unit tactics and moving away from massive tank fights. A year later the soviet union was gone.
Load up Red Alert.
Medium tanks Vs Mammoth tanks
FUN FOR ALL!!!!
| 387 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:30:37am |
We also have to take Israel into consideration and our other Middle Eastern allies. Unless of course beyond a defensive strategy we ironically enough want to adopt a Paulian foreign policy position.
| 388 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:31:08am |
re: #387 Gus 802
We also have to take Israel into consideration and our other Middle Eastern allies. Unless of course beyond a defensive strategy we ironically enough want to adopt a Paulian foreign policy position.
Can o' worms.
| 389 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:31:23am |
re: #382 Varek Raith
True, Iran is far more capable than Iraq ever was.
In some ways, invading Iran now would be like invading Iraq, circa 1990. Iran's not had a military devastated by a foolhardy land war or partially dismantled by over a decade of sanctions. The troops may not be top-notch, but they certainly would be no push-overs, especially as they'd be fighting on their own turf.
| 390 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:31:48am |
re: #387 Gus 802
Everything in moderation, remember? Real danger should be taken into account, not what Bibi or Lieberman may dream up.
| 392 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:32:41am |
re: #390 Sergey Romanov
Everything in moderation, remember? Real danger should be taken into account, not what Bibi or Lieberman may dream up.
Well, the rumor was that most of the IDF and Mossad said "what are you crazy" about even an air strike.
| 393 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:33:23am |
I fully understand the argument for hitting Iran.
I just hate the 'it'll be easy and we can do this with little consequence talk'.
| 394 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:33:40am |
re: #392 Gus 802
Yep.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
"Mossad chief: Nuclear Iran not necessarily existential threat to Israel"
| 395 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:34:47am |
re: #393 Varek Raith
I fully understand the argument for hitting Iran.
I just hate the 'it'll be easy and we can do this with little consequence talk'.
The invasion may be the "easy" part, but the 5-10 years of occupation minimum would not be easy or without consequence. See also: Iraq, Afghanistan.
| 396 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:34:50am |
re: #377 Varek Raith
You make a lot of assumptions in that post.
A lot.I'd rather we overestimate Iran than to underestimate them.
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm not being braggadocios (USA! USA!), that is a statement of fact. An actual invasion is a bloody bad idea, both politically and militarily, but if we decided we had no option but to destroy their military we could end it in weeks. Right now we have the highest trained, battle seasoned, and best equipped military in the history of the planet while the Iranians have a 3rd world military with lousy equipment and even worse training. The Iranian military isn't even close to what I would call a professional force. If it came down to it, it would end up like a football game between the Patriots and the Indiana High School All-stars.
| 397 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:36:37am |
re: #393 Varek Raith
I fully understand the argument for hitting Iran.
I just hate the 'it'll be easy and we can do this with little consequence talk'.
I believe the majority here has expressed that there would be consequences. Many of them have already been displayed and even up-dinged. There will be consequences. There will be consequences regardless of what we do.
| 398 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:37:03am |
re: #393 Varek Raith
I fully understand the argument for hitting Iran.
I just hate the 'it'll be easy and we can do this with little consequence talk'.
I don't think it's a good idea either. I expect the Iranians will decide not to back up their tough talk.
| 399 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:37:34am |
re: #395 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The invasion may be the "easy" part, but the 5-10 years of occupation minimum would not be easy or without consequence. See also: Iraq, Afghanistan.
you continue to wildly underestimate American air power...you are arguing against a hypothetical....makes no sense
| 400 |
Stanghazi Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:37:59am |
Pete Souza - a year in photos
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
| 401 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:38:07am |
re: #398 RogueOne
I don't think it's a good idea either. I expect the Iranians will decide not to back up their tough talk.
Where's the damned Ion Cannon when we need it???
Stupid GDI.
| 402 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:38:46am |
re: #398 RogueOne
I don't think it's a good idea either. I expect the Iranians will decide not to back up their tough talk.
Indeed. In many ways, it's the return of Cold War brinkmanship, both sides upping the ante until one finally blinks. If the story up-thread about further multi-party talks is accurate, it may be that both sides are looking to deescalate the situation.
| 404 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:41:09am |
We REALLY need to find a moonbat tag. This drivel from HuffPo needs to be mocked ruthlessly, and the wingnut tag doesn't do it justice:
Ron Paul Had Accurate Conspiracy Theory: CIA Was Tied To Drug Traffickers
| 405 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:41:48am |
The other thing we could do is build a time machine and go back to 1953 and not get involved in the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.
//
| 406 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:42:09am |
re: #404 Lidane
We REALLY need to find a moonbat tag. This drivel from HuffPo needs to be mocked ruthlessly, and the wingnut tag doesn't do it justice:
Ron Paul Had Accurate Conspiracy Theory: CIA Was Tied To Drug Traffickers
Speak of the devil.
Ron Paul! CIA!
| 407 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:42:28am |
re: #404 Lidane
We REALLY need to find a moonbat tag. This drivel from HuffPo needs to be mocked ruthlessly, and the wingnut tag doesn't do it justice:
Ron Paul Had Accurate Conspiracy Theory: CIA Was Tied To Drug Traffickers
Alouette has a good moonbat font.
| 408 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:43:26am |
re: #399 albusteve
you continue to wildly underestimate American air power...you are arguing against a hypothetical...makes no sense
I don't underestimate our air power, I think you're overestimating our intel. I think there are targets that we either don't know about or can't hit without massive collateral damage. Remember the pre-Iraq War strike that was supposedly going to knock off Saddam on Day One, leading to a total collapse of government and any resistance?
| 409 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:44:03am |
re: #407 Varek Raith
Alouette has a good moonbat tag.
I think we'd need a common font. Common Apple and Microsoft font.
| 411 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:44:44am |
re: #408 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I don't underestimate our air power, I think you're overestimating our intel. I think there are targets that we either don't know about or can't hit without massive collateral damage. Remember the pre-Iraq War strike that was supposedly going to knock off Saddam on Day One, leading to a total collapse of government and any resistance?
forget it, I don't share your pessimism
| 412 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:45:40am |
re: #409 Gus 802
I think we'd need a common font. Common Apple and Microsoft font.
It also needs to be an annoying font, like Comic Sans. Papyrus, maybe? And make it pink. Or something.
| 413 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:46:46am |
re: #411 albusteve
forget it, I don't share your pessimism
I'm rather fond of the saying that a pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist.
| 414 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:47:04am |
re: #412 Lidane
It also needs to be an annoying font, like Comic Sans. Papyrus, maybe? And make it pink. Or something.
Yep. I don't have a list. But it would have to be a default font found in both Windows 7 and whichever the latest Apple OS is.
| 415 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:47:50am |
On the walk back from the dog's beach play, saw a guy that looked like Huey Lewis riding a beach cruiser in cowboy boots and sipping a latte. Holy crap, it probably was Huey Lewis!
| 416 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:51:48am |
RE: Iran. There is one thing we haven't taken into consideration. It's an election year. While I've always said "wag the dog" is a movie not a political strategy, there will be some increased pressure to respond to any provocation by the Iranians. I don't think the president will invade to pump up his numbers but, at the same time, he's not going to want to look indecisive in the face of some form of Iranian aggression.
| 417 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:51:50am |
Holy crap! Last day of the year and my email is flooded with reminders from politicians that it's the last day to make a 2011 campaign donation before resetting my donation clock at midnight! I need to get busy! Wait...I thought I unsubscribed from all these assholes. They get my "Hey, I unsubscribed from your spam months ago!" reply instead.
| 418 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:53:05am |
re: #406 Gus 802
The CIA was tied to drug traffickers, though. That's not really a big deal. They're spies. They deal with nasty people. Individual cases may be good or bad.
It's like saying the CIA is tied to organized crime in other countries. Of course they are.
| 419 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:53:40am |
re: #418 Obdicut
The CIA was tied to drug traffickers, though. That's not really a big deal. They're spies. They deal with nasty people. Individual cases may be good or bad.
It's like saying the CIA is tied to organized crime in other countries. Of course they are.
A clean spy agency would never, ever work.
| 420 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:54:17am |
re: #416 RogueOne
RE: Iran. There is one thing we haven't taken into consideration. It's an election year. While I've always said "wag the dog" is a movie not a political strategy, there will be some increased pressure to respond to any provocation by the Iranians. I don't think the president will invade to pump up his numbers but, at the same time, he's not going to want to look indecisive in the face of some form of Iranian aggression.
Which is why I brought up the Cold War bit, as there were numerous points where we came within a single miscommunication or equipment malfunction from nuclear war. And all started the same way: One side making an "aggressive action," which caused the other to reciprocate so as not to appear "weak" to the folks back home.
| 421 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:56:10am |
re: #416 RogueOne
RE: Iran. There is one thing we haven't taken into consideration. It's an election year. While I've always said "wag the dog" is a movie not a political strategy, there will be some increased pressure to respond to any provocation by the Iranians. I don't think the president will invade to pump up his numbers but, at the same time, he's not going to want to look indecisive in the face of some form of Iranian aggression.
There will be increased pressure to respond to any perceived or imagined provocation. Obama's foreign policy record has been stellar the last three years. Stirring up shit in Iran just to make him look bad makes as much sense as overspending on the Cold War did for the Soviets. If the Republicans want to destroy this country over a black guy in the White House, then they're really fucked in the head.
Let the State Department handle international relations. They're the experts. Mitt Romney isn't. Newt Gingrich isn't. Sarah Francine Palin isn't.
| 422 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 10:59:49am |
re: #421 darthstar
If the Republicans want to destroy this country over a black guy in the White House, then they're really fucked in the head.
Which perfectly explains the current GOP primary clown show.
The Republican party is fucked in the head. The way people flipped their shit when Barack Obama got elected in 2008 proves it. Birtherism, the constant obstructionism, etc. They've been openly crazy for years now.
| 423 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:02:00am |
The only plans right now is strengthened sanctions where one passed the House and is waiting for the Senate. Most of this under the direction of the White House who supports these sanctions. Other processes are in the works on a diplomatic level. The aforementioned congressional activity is receiving wide bi-partisan support.
| 425 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:03:51am |
re: #422 Lidane
Which perfectly explains the current GOP primary clown show.
The Republican party is fucked in the head. The way people flipped their shit when Barack Obama got elected in 2008 proves it. Birtherism, the constant obstructionism, etc. They've been openly crazy for years now.
The danger exists in the crazy pushing voters to demand Obama take actions he would not otherwise, in order to avoid seeming "weak." He may stop short of going to war, but tighter sanctions are provoking the Iranian gov't nonetheless.
| 426 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:05:32am |
Aw, shit...my 2011 New Year's Resolution (which I made this morning) to try not to say "fuck" so much only lasted a couple of hours. I knew I should have stayed off-line.
| 427 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:05:46am |
re: #425 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The danger exists in the crazy pushing voters to demand Obama take actions he would not otherwise, in order to avoid seeming "weak." He may stop short of going to war, but tighter sanctions are provoking the Iranian gov't nonetheless.
They did the same thing with Bush. I remember that very well. People were almost screaming to Bush to "attack, attack, attack." Then there was McCain's "bomb, bomb, bomb..." It's almost become a routine.
| 428 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:05:49am |
4 tires new tires installed
$600.00
Knowing my son will have good traction during the winter months
Priceless
| 429 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:06:35am |
Most of it was worded as "Bush better bomb Iran now before Obama takes office because he'll never bomb Iran!" And of course, Bush never "bombed Iran."
| 430 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:06:42am |
re: #421 darthstar
I don't think he'll be all that concerned with what the republican candidate is going to say (everybody knows whoever the repub nominee ends up being they're going to be screaming for Iranian heads on spikes) he's going to have to convince the independents. If Iran does something stupid he might be more inclined to react with force with that in the back of his mind. He can't afford to look either too weak (or too aggressive for that matter) 6 months before an election.
| 431 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:07:36am |
re: #428 sattv4u2
4 tires new tires installed
$600.00
Knowing my son will have good traction during the winter months
Priceless
Shit...that's cheap! And it reminds me...I wanted to put new tires on the Smart car for my wife since she drives it so much.
| 432 |
RogueOne Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:09:26am |
re: #431 darthstar
Shit...that's cheap! And it reminds me...I wanted to put new tires on the Smart car for my wife since she drives it so much.
Those are basically moped tires aren't they? I just put 4 new ones on my truck....$1000. I got a little misty eyed writing out the check.
| 433 |
wrenchwench Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:09:47am |
re: #426 darthstar
Aw, shit...my 2011 New Year's Resolution (which I made this morning) to try not to say "fuck" so much only lasted a couple of hours. I knew I should have stayed off-line.
Many years ago when I was preparing for an extended visit with my grandmother, I asked my boyfriend to slug me in the arm every time I used the f-word. It helped.
| 434 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:09:53am |
re: #431 darthstar
Shit...that's cheap! And it reminds me...I wanted to put new tires on the Smart car for my wife since she drives it so much.
yeah ,,, I get good but not top-of-the-line tires (and never cheapies)
Learned over the years that the "good" ones are just about as good as the top-of-the-line ones and the cheapies aren't worth their weight in air!!
| 435 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:10:20am |
re: #429 Gus 802
Most of it was worded as "Bush better bomb Iran now before Obama takes office because he'll never bomb Iran!" And of course, Bush never "bombed Iran."
I don't think any American POTUS is going to bomb Iran without a damned good reason, no matter what the lunatic mouthbreathers on the right want. Obama is no exception.
We have to protect our interests as a country, but we also can't just unilaterally start bombing countries we don't like.
| 436 |
blueraven Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:10:31am |
re: #424 albusteve
more on Iran...
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Iran is so full of it. They aren't going to close Hormuz or anything else.
The people are pissed and afraid
The rising tensions are having an impact at home. Iran's currency has nosedived in recent weeks as ordinary Iranians withdraw money from savings accounts to move them into gold or foreign currency.
The price of staple foods has increased by up to 40 percent in recent months and many critics have put the blame on increasing isolation brought about by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's economic and foreign policies.
Iran's massive media coverage of the naval manoeuvres appeared an attempt by the authorities to strike a patriotic chord among ordinary Iranians worried about a military strike.
"I have already witnessed a war with Iraq in the 1980s ... I can hear the drumbeat of war," said merchant Mohsen Sanaie, 62, glancing over newspaper headlines at a central Tehran newsstand. "One stray bullet could spark a war."
| 437 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:12:17am |
re: #435 Lidane
I don't think any American POTUS is going to bomb Iran without a damned good reason, no matter what the lunatic mouthbreathers on the right want. Obama is no exception.
We have to protect our interests as a country, but we also can't just unilaterally start bombing countries we don't like.
Bachmann might.../
| 438 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:12:25am |
Iran...from the AP
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 439 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:12:30am |
re: #435 Lidane
I don't think any American POTUS is going to bomb Iran without a damned good reason, no matter what the lunatic mouthbreathers on the right want. Obama is no exception.
We have to protect our interests as a country, but we also can't just unilaterally start bombing countries we don't like.
I don't think Romney would either. He's all talk and right now he's trying to play to the right-wing and the base but once he's running for the general election he'll go back towards the center because he has to. I think it's also in his nature to be that way. Just talk. I've seen this bluster before.
| 440 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:13:00am |
re: #437 Sergey Romanov
Bachmann might.../
That's funny because I was going to use her as an example as someone who probably would.
| 441 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:13:22am |
re: #439 Gus 802
Agreed. Office makes people more moderate. But the rest? Far gone, IMHO.
| 442 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:13:40am |
re: #436 blueraven
Iran is so full of it. They aren't going to close Hormuz or anything else.
The people are pissed and afraid
Which is why they're trying to crawl back to the negotiating table. Their hand is exceedingly weak and any aggressive action on their part now would pretty much doom the government.
| 443 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:07am |
re: #441 Sergey Romanov
Agreed. Office makes people more moderate. But the rest? Far gone, IMHO.
Yeah. But we have Ron Paul who basically wouldn't give a shit in any direction.
| 444 |
blueraven Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:13am |
re: #438 albusteve
Iran...from the AP
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
The sanctions are working...no matter how much Iran's leaders try to pretend otherwise.
| 445 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:30am |
PETA Seeks Memorials to Cows Killed on Ill. Roads
[Link: www.myfoxchicago.com...]
Instead of a "memorial sign" where the cow died, I'll donate a BBQ grill and some condiments!!
| 446 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:35am |
re: #443 Gus 802
Yeah. But we have Ron Paul who basically wouldn't give a shit in any direction.
Honey badger.
| 447 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:39am |
My email reply to MoveOn (I like unsubscribing!)
Political spam has become a disease. I'd rather get phone calls during dinner than have fifteen emails a day from every state democratic party and PAC asking for money. Arizona? Delaware? I live in California, people. (I know, this isn't MoveOn's fault)
Oh, and to make matters worse, I've got fucking REPUBLICANS sending me mailers asking for money...assholes. Imagine the gentle responses I send them in their pre-paid envelopes.
I like MoveOn, and will donate again in the future, but I'm done with donating for the time being.
Thanks, and keep up the good work.
| 448 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:50am |
re: #400 Stanley Sea
Pete Souza - a year in photos
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
lol
| 449 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:56am |
re: #445 sattv4u2
PETA Seeks Memorials to Cows Killed on Ill. Roads
[Link: www.myfoxchicago.com...]
Instead of a "memorial sign" where the cow died, I'll donate a BBQ grill and some condiments!!
Some piggies too plz!//
| 450 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:14:58am |
re: #223 Gus 802
Or is it really just a defensive mechanism in defense of Communism, Marxism, EIEIO? "Well Che Guevara and Stalin, they really weren't Communists." And neither was Mao.
Yes, it is. Usually combined with the speaker's belief that if we tried it, under the leadership of whichever two-cent blowhard they're currently enamored of (Bob Avakian, I'm looking at you and your New Synthesis), it would work this time.
| 451 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:15:15am |
re: #445 sattv4u2
PETA Seeks Memorials to Cows Killed on Ill. Roads
[Link: www.myfoxchicago.com...]
Instead of a "memorial sign" where the cow died, I'll donate a BBQ grill and some condiments!!
I'll whip up some cole slaw and baked potatoes.
| 453 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:15:54am |
re: #433 wrenchwench
Many years ago when I was preparing for an extended visit with my grandmother, I asked my boyfriend to slug me in the arm every time I used the f-word. It helped.
I started using the word "francine" after Emmie suggested it this morning...it was a one day resolution - mostly in jest. I'll be saying fuck as much as ever tomorrow. Still sucks that I didn't make it.
| 454 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:16:55am |
re: #444 blueraven
The sanctions are working...no matter how much Iran's leaders try to pretend otherwise.
they themselves need to keep the gulf open and safe...nobody is fooled and stopping them would be simple enough
| 455 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:17:35am |
re: #450 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, it is. Usually combined with the speaker's belief that if we tried it, under the leadership of whichever two-cent blowhard they're currently enamored of (Bob Avakian, I'm looking at you and your New Synthesis), it would work this time.
Just one more time, just this liddl coutnry right there, I promise!//
| 456 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:18:02am |
re: #256 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Why the UN? Just scream "North America Union!" and watch the loons in the audience collectively shit a brick. Seriously, if you believe that we're in any danger of having the Constitution replaced with the UN Charter, then you need to spend a few hours in a place with padded walls.
I had a student who was sure that Bush was going to stay in office indefinately, and sign us up to the NAU. He pointed out that one reason we would do it would be to solve illegal immigration.
| 457 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:19:19am |
re: #456 SanFranciscoZionist
I had a student who was sure that Bush was going to stay in office indefinately, and sign us up to the NAU. He pointed out that one reason we would do it would be to solve illegal immigration.
Ugh! I remember those people.
According to Greenwald "Bush is still in office."
Hurl! I know you follow ABL as well.
| 458 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:19:46am |
Kos front page: Image: 828.png
Kind of tasteless but darkly funny.
| 459 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:20:08am |
re: #454 albusteve
they themselves need to keep the gulf open and safe...nobody is fooled and stopping them would be simple enough
Yep. Want to really fuck with Iran? Say, "Hey, you threatening to close the straits of Hormuz? Here...we'll do it for you!" That'll make us really popular with all the cool people!
/
| 460 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:20:42am |
Oh buoy...
Iowa's GOP caucuses may see some Democratic defectors
Voters who helped elect Obama in 2008 are planning to cast Republican ballots Tuesday, and Rep. Ron Paul is perhaps the most likely to benefit from the crossovers.
| 461 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:20:45am |
re: #458 Killgore Trout
Kos front page: Image: 828.png
Kind of tasteless but darkly funny.
(h8 exaggerated death tolls)
| 462 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:20:59am |
re: #437 Sergey Romanov
Bachmann might.../
Heh. Good point. Lucky for us, she doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.
| 463 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:20:59am |
re: #456 SanFranciscoZionist
I had a student who was sure that Bush was going to stay in office indefinately, and sign us up to the NAU. He pointed out that one reason we would do it would be to solve illegal immigration.
God, I still remember all the moonbats back in the day who kept screaming that Bush was going to cancel the '04/'08 elections, declare "marshall law," and install himself as President-for-Life.
Good times, heh.
| 464 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:21:15am |
re: #458 Killgore Trout
Kos front page: Image: 828.png
Kind of tasteless but darkly funny.
The Hitchens cartoon was hilarious, I thought. I like Bors' work, and am glad he's one of the regular political cartoonists they now feature.
| 466 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:22:43am |
re: #463 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
God, I still remember all the moonbats back in the day who kept screaming that Bush was going to cancel the '04/'08 elections, declare "marshall law," and install himself as President-for-Life.
Good times, heh.
I still keep seeing "stolen election" 2000!!11ty
| 467 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:22:50am |
re: #458 Killgore Trout
Kos front page: Image: 828.png
Kind of tasteless but darkly funny.
that's sick...the guy has cancer I think
| 469 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:23:22am |
| 470 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:23:53am |
re: #461 Sergey Romanov
(h8 exaggerated death tolls)
I've just come to accept it. Lots of seething and hatred in the comments on that thread too. Even here I've pretty much stopped discussing the Iraq war too much. I wasn't in favor of it but the debate has become too bogged down in half truths, lies, misinformation and rigid ideology. A realistic conversation about Iraq has become pretty much impossible.
| 471 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:24:02am |
re: #303 Sergey Romanov
I have no doubt they would turn Israel and the US into glass parking lots if given chance. But not at the expense of themselves being turned into a glass desert.
I tend to agree, and fucking hope I'm right. This, BTW, is where people show up and explain how because they're Shiites, they welcome Armageddon, and say something about the Twelfth Imam.
| 472 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:25:13am |
re: #468 Gus 802
Hitchens passed away.
no shit?...I did not know that...wow, I liked him and his irreverent snarl
| 473 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:26:09am |
re: #470 Killgore Trout
Other people on LGF just keep rapidly falling beneath your high standards. I imagine it makes sort of a wooshing sound. Or maybe just the sound of a shoe sinking into the mire.
I used to want to be a Foley artist. I practiced my sounds at home. I should have gone that route, it would have been fun.
| 474 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:26:15am |
re: #460 Gus 802
Oh buoy...
Iowa's GOP caucuses may see some Democratic defectors
Voters who helped elect Obama in 2008 are planning to cast Republican ballots Tuesday, and Rep. Ron Paul is perhaps the most likely to benefit from the crossovers.
There's always a reason to discount a Paul victory...now they're going to blame Democrats because we don't have any primaries to worry about so we're all poisoning the well for the Republicans? Fucking losers.
| 475 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:26:24am |
re: #465 Gus 802
Love it!
Did Hitch ever waiver or backtrack on the Iraq war? I never followed his writing enough to know if he ever changed his mind.
| 476 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:26:32am |
re: #470 Killgore Trout
I've just come to accept it. Lots of seething and hatred in the comments on that thread too. Even here I've pretty much stopped discussing the Iraq war too much. I wasn't in favor of it but the debate has become too bogged down in half truths, lies, misinformation and rigid ideology. A realistic conversation about Iraq has become pretty much impossible.
It's sort of enjoyable sometimes watching a bunch of so called secular progressives think and act as though they were either the Pope or some kind of God. "He has blood on his hands!" Some of them were actually worse in their response to his death than were his former religious opponents. You know how the never ending babble from the moralizing crunchy emoprog George Galloway fan base can get.
| 477 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:26:50am |
re: #475 Killgore Trout
Did Hitch ever waiver or backtrack on the Iraq war? I never followed his writing enough to know if he ever changed his mind.
No.
| 478 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:26:59am |
re: #460 Gus 802
Oh buoy...
Iowa's GOP caucuses may see some Democratic defectors
Voters who helped elect Obama in 2008 are planning to cast Republican ballots Tuesday, and Rep. Ron Paul is perhaps the most likely to benefit from the crossovers.
I want to see Luap Nor win, if for no other reason than to give the GOP party leadership heartburn. It would really show the depths that the base is willing to go to reject Mitt Romney, and it would give them a hell of a headache in the general if he managed to win the nomination. It would be amusing to watch.
| 479 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:27:08am |
re: #467 albusteve
that's sick...the guy has cancer I think
He's dead. Hitchens would love that joke...especially the punch line.
| 480 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:27:36am |
re: #435 Lidane
I don't think any American POTUS is going to bomb Iran without a damned good reason, no matter what the lunatic mouthbreathers on the right want. Obama is no exception.
We have to protect our interests as a country, but we also can't just unilaterally start bombing countries we don't like.
I agree but this is not a simple matter of "like", which is not to say I advocate another war, but Iran is religiously psychopathic.
Give me one reason why Iran can be threatened by anyone today, except in terms of weakening their lock on their own people according to what their interpretation of the Koran is.
If anyone wants an example of why god is not great, Iran is a perfect example.
| 481 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:27:47am |
| 482 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:27:52am |
re: #476 Gus 802
Blaming Hitchens is pretty much silly. Bush and his circle have blood on their hands. Hitchens? Meh.
| 483 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:28:17am |
re: #479 darthstar
He's dead. Hitchens would love that joke...especially the punch line.
I think so too.
| 485 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:30:42am |
re: #467 albusteve
that's sick...the guy has cancer I think
Your excuse is that you don't watch TV; but what does LGF inform you of?/
| 486 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:30:48am |
re: #480 Naso Tang
A country can't be psychopathic. And if they were the main thing that's called 'psychopathic', that'd be good insurance against them doing anything that would lead to their own self-destruction. Psychopaths tend to value themselves highly.
| 487 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:30:54am |
re: #481 Killgore Trout
Heh, good for him.
Yep. I'm still waiting for Jimmy Carter to apologize for having a hand in East Timor. But further. These same people opposed the NATO bombing in Libya. They also objected to the Bosnian and Kosovo War. Including what was the "good war" in Afghanistan that even Neil Young supported. Times changes. Hitchens changed over the course of his lifetime. He earned that right and George Galloway is still an asshole.
| 488 |
Targetpractice Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:31:31am |
re: #474 darthstar
There's always a reason to discount a Paul victory...now they're going to blame Democrats because we don't have any primaries to worry about so we're all poisoning the well for the Republicans? Fucking losers.
Pretty sure I remember a lot of talk back in the day about Republicans were going to the polls in the Dem primaries, voting for Obama because they thought he'd be easy to beat in the general. Of course, this was back when they were still scared shitless of Hillary.
| 489 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:31:53am |
re: #485 Naso Tang
Your excuse is that you don't watch TV; but what does LGF inform you of?/
Maybe it is entirely possible to post on a daily basis and never read the words on the screen.
| 490 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:32:06am |
re: #482 Sergey Romanov
Blaming Hitchens is pretty much silly. Bush and his circle have blood on their hands. Hitchens? Meh.
I like to think that Saddam Hussein has even more blood on his hands.
| 491 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:32:49am |
re: #490 Gus 802
I like to think that Saddam Hussein has even more blood on his hands.
And Hitler has even more. Pretty low bars to judge anything by ;)
| 492 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:32:52am |
re: #488 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Pretty sure I remember a lot of talk back in the day about Republicans were going to the polls in the Dem primaries, voting for Obama because they thought he'd be easy to beat in the general. Of course, this was back when they were still scared shitless of Hillary.
Wouldn't it be ironic if that was the case? He wasn't supposed to win in the general!
| 493 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:33:03am |
re: #486 Obdicut
A country can't be psychopathic. And if they were the main thing that's called 'psychopathic', that'd be good insurance against them doing anything that would lead to their own self-destruction. Psychopaths tend to value themselves highly.
A country is one thing, a group of (12) fanatics who control it is another. I thought the distinction was self evident. Sorry.
| 494 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:33:17am |
re: #485 Naso Tang
Your excuse is that you don't watch TV; but what does LGF inform you of?/
wasn't around I guess...I was traveling
| 495 |
Lidane Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:33:39am |
re: #480 Naso Tang
Don't get me wrong here. The mullahs and Ahmadinejad are raving lunatics. I hope that the revolutionary spirit that we saw in Iran continues and I'd love to see that whole system overthrown and a more open, democratic system replace it.
HOWEVER, Iran has powerful allies, China and Russia in particular. We have to tread lightly in how we approach dealing with the lunatics who run the place. We can't just barge in, guns blazing, like the idiots on the far right want us to.
If I knew what the answer was, I'd be working in the State Department. I have no idea how we should deal with Iran. But we can't just be reckless assholes who bask in "American Exceptionalism" as the answer to everything. We don't have a divine right to attack anyone we want, no matter how crazy and fucked up that country might be.
| 496 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:33:41am |
re: #491 Sergey Romanov
Hello, Hitler! Must be time for a Spencer/Geller thread.
| 497 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:33:53am |
re: #493 Naso Tang
A country is one thing, a group of (12) fanatics who control it is another. I thought the distinction was self evident. Sorry.
Okay, then, again, if they are psychopaths, that's good insurance against them doing anything that would lead to their own destruction.
| 498 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:34:11am |
| 499 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:34:28am |
| 500 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:34:29am |
re: #493 Naso Tang
A country is one thing, a group of (12) fanatics who control it is another. I thought the distinction was self evident. Sorry.
But there are only eight justices on the Supreme Court. //Perry-mode-off
| 501 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:35:19am |
re: #499 Naso Tang
You travel?
In circles mostly. (Sorry steve...couldn't resist...how's the new prosthetic working, by the way).
| 502 |
Gus Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:35:48am |
re: #496 darthstar
Hello, Hitler! Must be time for a Spencer/Geller thread.
OMG! And there's a Geller/Spencer thread!
Freaky.
//
| 503 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:37:16am |
| 504 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:37:32am |
re: #497 Obdicut
Okay, then, again, if they are psychopaths, that's good insurance against them doing anything that would lead to their own destruction.
Not necessarily. Psychopaths are not necessarily as smart as they think they are. And these guys are playing a hand with two worlds on it.
But in general, Iran's behavior doesn't seem terribly nuts, by the admittedly low standards of religious dictatorships.
| 505 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:37:57am |
re: #497 Obdicut
Okay, then, again, if they are psychopaths, that's good insurance against them doing anything that would lead to their own destruction.
Are you trying to start something? If you listen to them at all you will know, by their own words (I think quoted here recently, among many others), that they don't give a shit about their country as long as it results in the spread of Islam to everyone else.
If you pay attention, the little twerp they have speak for them starts every speech with a wish for the coming of the Mahdi; aka end times.
Psychopath does not mean self preservation, it means complete lack of empathy.
| 506 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:38:28am |
re: #501 darthstar
In circles mostly. (Sorry steve...couldn't resist...how's the new prosthetic working, by the way).
made some big progress over the last few weeks...some days there is no pain at all
| 507 |
darthstar Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:41:00am |
re: #506 albusteve
made some big progress over the last few weeks...some days there is no pain at all
Good to hear.
| 508 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:44:43am |
| 509 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:45:20am |
re: #505 Naso Tang
Are you trying to start something?
What do you mean?
If you listen to them at all you will know, by their own words (I think quoted here recently, among many others), that they don't give a shit about their country as long as it results in the spread of Islam to everyone else.
I don't actually believe what they say, because I think they're shitheads.
If you pay attention, the little twerp they have speak for them starts every speech with a wish for the coming of the Mahdi; aka end times.
SFZ called that one. 12th imam, right on schedule.
Psychopath does not mean self preservation, it means complete lack of empathy.
Psychopath is an ill-defined concept, but the main usage of it is someone who is a narcissist who lacks empathy.
| 510 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 11:48:01am |
re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist
Not necessarily. Psychopaths are not necessarily as smart as they think they are. And these guys are playing a hand with two worlds on it.
Most psychopaths aren't actually smart, the smart ones just get the press. Most dumb psychopaths are just in prison for having glassed someone in a bar.
I don't know what the two worlds thing is.
But in general, Iran's behavior doesn't seem terribly nuts, by the admittedly low standards of religious dictatorships.
Nor terribly suicidal. Saddam was more provocative towards the US, and others, and he wasn't even religious. Iran hasn't even started a war with anyone.
It is possible that they're just hell-bent on the destruction of Israel and tightly controlled enough to not take any real actions on that score until they build nukes. It's possible, and it's a terrible thought. But it'd be pretty unlikely. It's more likely they're just power-hungry dickheads keeping control of their country partially by using Israel and the West as the Big Bad, like most of the other Middle Eastern countries.
| 511 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:45:24pm |
re: #509 Obdicut
I don't actually believe what they say, because I think they're shitheads.
You don't think shitheads can be believable?
Psychopath is an ill-defined concept, but the main usage of it is someone who is a narcissist who lacks empathy.
Narcissist is a catch all for someone self obsessed. If there is any group who are the most self obsessed of all, it is the fundamentalist, fanatically, religious. The lack of empathy part simply follows logically, if one considers empathy to mean concern for others feelings, aka beliefs.
| 512 |
Obdicut Sat, Dec 31, 2011 12:48:06pm |
re: #511 Naso Tang
You don't think shitheads can be believable?
Yeah, sorry, I think they're manipulative, dishonest shitheads.
Narcissist is a catch all for someone self obsessed.
Are you referring to the DSM-IV or what?
If there is any group who are the most self obsessed of all, it is the fundamentalist, fanatically, religious.
No, that doesn't follow at all. There are completely self-abnegating fanatics.
The lack of empathy part simply follows logically, if one considers empathy to mean concern for others feelings, aka beliefs.
Beliefs and feelings are nowhere close to synonyms.
| 513 |
Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 31, 2011 3:00:38pm |
re: #512 Obdicut
Yeah, sorry, I think they're manipulative, dishonest shitheads.
I think they are wired that way, and couldn't change even if they had the nicest possible upbringing, and I think they gravitate to positions of leadership because for some strange reason normal humans think they are good at that.
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ...
Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
