Ron Paul Angrily Denies Being 9/11 Truther, But…

Paul flips when grilled on Trutherism
Wingnuts • Views: 31,910

In this clip, ABC’s Jake Tapper asks Ron Paul about a report that he believes in 9/11 conspiracy theories, and Dr. Paul goes ballistic.

Ron Paul’s angry denials should be weighed against his regular appearances on the Alex Jones radio show, since Jones is one of the loudest, most deranged 9/11 Truthers in America.

If a journalist ever wanted to follow up on this, they could also ask Ron Paul about his association with antisemitic 9/11 Truther James Jaeger.

Yesterday, filmmaker James Jaeger of the Jaeger Research Institute publicized the films SPOiLER: How A Third Party Could Win and Original Intent, which “exposes the historical march of Cultural Marxism.” Guests in the films include far-right notables including Pat Buchanan, Chuck Baldwin, Ted Baehr and Edwin Vieira. Original Intent and SPOiLER also include one notable guest: congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul. In fact, Paul’s Campaign for Liberty is listed alongside the Jaeger Research Institute under the film’s “affiliations.”

Even a brief glance at Jaeger Research Institute’s “research” reveals that it is a fringe, conspiratorial organization. In 2003, the group published a column arguing that “Zionist Jews appear to control both parties” and that “the Zionist leadership betrayed the Jews of Europe during the Jewish holocaust.” Another writer for the Jaeger Research Institute wrote, “I find it hard to believe that there is no truth in any of the accusations of child murder leveled against Jews over the centuries.”

And then, there’s this 2009 video clip from wearechange.org, in which Ron Paul was asked why he doesn’t “come out about the truth about 9/11.”

Oddly enough, when asked the question by a friendly interviewer, his reply was much more equivocal:

Youtube Video

Why don’t you come out about the truth about 9/11?

[Pause…]

Ron Paul: Because I can’t handle the controversy. I have the IIF, the Federal Reserve to deal with, and the IRS to deal with. Because, uh, no I just have work— too many things on my plate. Uh, because, uh, I just have too much to do.

Troofer: All right, thank you sir. Thank you very much.

Ron Paul: OK. OK.

Jump to bottom

368 comments

1 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 2:52:16pm

Grandpa needs a nap.

2 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 2:52:43pm

Watching Crazy Uncle Ron's fans spin like dynamos to excuse this sort of bullshit has been absolutely hilarious. They've basically been reduced to trying to argue that he's "so busy" that he can't keep track of his own craziness.

3 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 2:54:20pm

I resisted the inevitable "get off my lawn" joke in this post.

4 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 2:55:28pm

I hate em all...very simple

5 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:00:16pm

But you know what happens when jet fuel explodes don't you, it's gone in a second and all that is left burning is everything but the fuel. Given that, how could the towers ever get hot enough to soften the pillars? And how did tower 7 ever fall? It was never directly hit.

I heard that on YouTube so it must be true.

6 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:00:30pm

Maybe Paulbot spinning is a major part of RP's alternate energy research initiative?

7 God of Binders with Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:02:16pm

Pssst! All the Jews were told to stay home September 11! Pass it on!

8 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:02:36pm

"We Are Change." Now there's another group of crazies.

9 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:03:27pm

re: #8 Gus 802

"We Are Change." Now there's another group of crazies.

Tell them they can keep the change.

10 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:04:58pm

re: #9 b_sharp

Tell them they can keep the change.

We Are Screw Loose Change
Screw Loose Change -- the movie.

11 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:05:14pm

9/11 was an inside job! How do I know? A guy using chicken wire and cinder blocks proved it!

12 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:06:33pm

looks like the joke well has run dry

13 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:07:08pm

re: #11 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thousands of architects and engineers said it was so!

//

*Apparently there are also thousands of crazy architects and engineers amongst the 10s of thousands.

14 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:07:13pm

Fire can't melt steel!

15 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:07:18pm

re: #11 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey, I saw that highly scientifical experiment and I'm totally convinced.

16 God of Binders with Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:08:37pm

Everyone knows a Patriot missile hit the Pentagon, and that the jet was redirected to Bush & Cheney's secret hangar in Crawford, TX!!

17 nines09  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:09:51pm

"Hey, I never signed off on that video. Who said I could say those things?"

18 God of Binders with Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:10:51pm

Controlled demolition!!!

19 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:11:18pm

Used to have a co-worker, was a high school junior, who was entertaining the whole "9/11 conspiracy" BS. I tried a couple times to engage in her debate, even offering to lend her my copy of Popular Mechanic's book debunking the most prevalent theories, and got nowhere. Her reasoning seemed to be the same as a lot of otherwise reasonable folks who entertain such lunacy: "I just don't trust the government to tell the truth."

Yeah, I don't either, but there are limits to how far I'll go to hate the government. A conspiracy that supposedly stretched back decades, requiring tens or even hundreds of thousands of conspirators, and operating in absolute secrecy the whole time doesn't just stretch credibility, it's draws and quarters it.

20 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:11:31pm
21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:12:25pm
22 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:14:13pm

re: #19 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Used to have a co-worker, was a high school junior, who was entertaining the whole "9/11 conspiracy" BS. I tried a couple times to engage in her debate, even offering to lend her my copy of Popular Mechanic's book debunking the most prevalent theories, and got nowhere. Her reasoning seemed to be the same as a lot of otherwise reasonable folks who entertain such lunacy: "I just don't trust the government to tell the truth."

Yeah, I don't either, but there are limits to how far I'll go to hate the government. A conspiracy that supposedly stretched back decades, requiring tens or even hundreds of thousands of conspirators, and operating in absolute secrecy the whole time doesn't just stretch credibility, it's draws and quarters it.

Motivation doesn't even have to enter it as an explanation, the physics of the event are enough.

23 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:15:17pm

Ron Paul isn't electable regardless, but I hope information such as this buries him into obscurity as time rolls forward.

25 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:16:08pm

re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth

There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.

*Language Warning*

Dylan Avery. Good lord what a dippity-do that kid is. Did you ever see him and his other cohort debating the guys from PM on Democracy Now? They had nothing and showed what a couple of foolish immature kids they really are. And Amy Goodman was acting kind of sympathetic to them. Ask me what I think about her some time. ;) But it doesn't matter much. These freaks have a rather large following. Most of which is a result of substance abuse IMO.

26 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:19:38pm

Here it is if you can stomach going through it.

Democracy Now - Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:21:35pm

re: #26 Gus 802

Didn't read that shit before, ain't reading it now.

I refuse to even entertain the conversation.

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:22:00pm

re: #25 Gus 802

That's rather unfair to substance abusers. We can't help how we were born, and should not be compared to conspiracy mongering loons.
///

29 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:23:01pm

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Didn't read that shit before, ain't reading it now.

I refuse to even entertain the conversation.

heh...it's something to post about

30 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:23:16pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

That's rather unfair to substance abusers. We can't help how we were born, and should not be compared to conspiracy mongering loons.
///

Yeah. I know how sensitive users can get. Let's put it this way. I like to drink. But I don't think it's a good idea to drink 55 gallons a day every single second of the day. And that's what some of these weirdos are doing but not with booze.

31 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:24:13pm

re: #21 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. From the site:

Image: love_animals1.jpg

32 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:24:17pm

re: #30 Gus 802

Pfft! Lightweight.

33 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:24:25pm

re: #22 b_sharp

Motivation doesn't even have to enter it as an explanation, the physics of the event are enough.

I just have a hard time believing that, in the 20-30 years that any conspiracy supposedly would operate over, and amongst the tens or hundreds of thousands of people at every level of government who'd need to be involved, there's not been a single whistleblower. That there's been such a level of secrecy that anybody who might possibly come forward has been either scared into silence or terminated.

34 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:26:10pm

Arnold is a Yeti...
BO is a Kenyen...
Charles is a bagel...
newz!

35 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:26:43pm

The Kennedy assassination!
Arkancide!

You absolutely CAN make up a conspiracy about ANYTHING!

36 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:26:44pm

Uh oh. Someone's bored.

37 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:27:11pm

re: #36 Gus 802

Uh oh. Someone's bored.

ya think?...
Ron Paul!

38 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:28:09pm

I can somewhat be arsed to have a little respect for conspiracy theorists that remain consistent through the years.

The ones that really piss me off are the ones that only believe the conspiracy theories that revolve around the political party they are opposed to.

39 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:30:26pm

re: #33 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I just have a hard time believing that, in the 20-30 years that any conspiracy supposedly would operate over, and amongst the tens or hundreds of thousands of people at every level of government who'd need to be involved, there's not been a single whistleblower. That there's been such a level of secrecy that anybody who might possibly come forward has been either scared into silence or terminated.

Yeah. You would think that Wikileaks would have found something in that mound of classified documents that their hero, Bradley Manning, stole. Or that those super-hacking super-sleuths "anonymous" would have found something by now. Apparently this was a very deep and black operation. Yep, that must be it.

//

40 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:30:53pm

boy, those Eagle fans really know how to party...
6 dead last night
[Link: www.philly.com...]

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:31:32pm

"George Bush stole the election, you say? You're fucking stupid, kid. But Obama totally did steal the election. That's a fact."

Or flip it. I've heard it both ways.

42 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:31:33pm

re: #39 Gus 802

Yeah. You would think that Wikileaks would have found something in that mound of classified documents that their hero, Bradley Manning, stole. Or that those super-hacking super-sleuths "anonymous" would have found something by now. Apparently this was a very deep and black operation. Yep, that must be it.

//

No doubt, they're being thwarted by agents of Majestic-12, who are under orders by the Illuminati.

///

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:33:46pm

re: #42 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The first rule of MJ-12? You don't talk about MJ-12.

I'm pulling your card.
/

44 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:34:09pm

Oh brother. Some of these Tweets of late. It's like they all got drunk on the Koolaid over the holidays and with the help of NDAA!!11ty

45 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:34:34pm

re: #42 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No doubt, they're being thwarted by agents of Majestic-12, who are under orders by the Illuminati.

///

Deus Ex is so sublime (but just a computer game, Paultards).

46 Jimmi the Grey  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:35:10pm

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth

The first rule of MJ-12? You don't talk about MJ-12.

I'm pulling your card.
/

Gonna send Jesse Ventura and Alex Trebek to have a chat with him too?

/XFiles

47 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:36:16pm

Cheeta finally passed away...
80 years old
12,494,006,829 tweets
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:36:41pm

re: #45 Winny Spencer

Deus Ex is so sublime (but just a computer game, Paultards).

Actually, the MJ-12 conspiracy theories came well before the game, as does much of the ct stuff in the game.

Deus Ex is sublime, though.

49 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:37:00pm

Cheeta was murdered...
937,873,005 tweets

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:37:05pm

re: #47 albusteve

That's a lot of tweets.

51 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:37:53pm

re: #48 Slumbering Behemoth

Actually, the MJ-12 conspiracy theories came well before the game, as does much of the ct stuff in the game.

Deus Ex is sublime, though.

Yeah, I know, but I always think of it whenever MJ-12 is mentioned. Happier times.

52 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:38:27pm

re: #51 Winny Spencer

Heh. Same here. Guilty as charged.

53 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:38:36pm

re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's a lot of tweets.

the TweetMeter don't lie

54 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:39:26pm

re: #25 Gus 802

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

55 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:39:31pm

"albert einstein" -- About 79,000,000 results
"kim kardashian" -- About 134,000,000 results
"john f kennedy" -- About 55,100,000 results
"lady gaga" -- About 487,000,000 results

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:40:32pm

re: #54 Charles

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I hated him within two sentences and stopped reading.

57 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:41:01pm

That was before he made "Loose Change" and became "famous."

58 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:41:43pm

re: #57 Charles

That was before he made "Loose Change" and became "famous."

Loose Screw is more apt

59 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:41:46pm

re: #54 Charles

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

What an ignorant, odious choad...

60 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:41:54pm

re: #54 Charles

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

What a breathtaking fucktard.

61 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:42:07pm

re: #54 Charles

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

How's that for word salad. I still shake my head over these people. Just amazing that they got so popular and there are so many people in this country that think like him.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:43:37pm

re: #54 Charles

Wow. He suffers from the same "Random Capitalization and mistspelling" disease that creationist do. What a maroon.

63 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:45:13pm

re: #38 Slumbering Behemoth

I can somewhat be arsed to have a little respect for conspiracy theorists that remain consistent through the years.

The ones that really piss me off are the ones that only believe the conspiracy theories that revolve around the political party they are opposed to.

Why does consistency (outside of making fillo dough) mean anything? I've heard RP's 20 year consistency trotted out as a reason to respect the man. Unless it can be shown inconsistency is due to wind direction during an election, it means the person is unable to correct personal misconceptions when presented with new and more accurate information.

64 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:45:42pm

And my dad has exploded again. This time over a timer on Roast Beef.

I'm calmer now. Grandparents siad they will help out Mom, and I realize that, if my Dad gets his wish, he will eventually blow up his own career out of being an explosive control freak.

He also hit the glasses off my mom's face. My mom, sister, and grandparents won't allow me to call the police.

65 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:46:03pm

re: #57 Charles

The next comment is a fun read too:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

66 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:46:12pm

re: #54 Charles

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I remember more than a few of those "troofers" tried to sneak in and espouse their gospel to us in the old days. They were fun for awhile, but then they got repetitive and it was like playing a game of whack-a-mole.

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:46:36pm

re: #64 ProLifeLiberal

How old is dad?

68 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:47:27pm

re: #57 Charles

That was before he made "Loose Change" and became "famous."

Ned Nederlander: Oh, Dusty. In-famous is when you're MORE than famous. This man El Guapo, he's not just famous, he's IN-famous.

Seems to fit, doesn't it?

69 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:47:44pm

Dylan Avery's "last comment" at LGF

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

He then posted at least 7 more comments.

70 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:47:46pm

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

49 in a month.

71 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:48:55pm
72 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:49:30pm

re: #63 b_sharp

Why does consistency (outside of making fillo dough) mean anything?

It only means that I dislike Animal Farm Ideologues more than I dislike thoroughly consistent loons.

73 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:50:32pm

That "Show Users" button is not working for me. The page goes dark and the wheel keeps spinning but nothing happens and I have to reload the page.

74 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:50:46pm

re: #69 Charles

Dylan Avery's "last comment" at LGF

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

He then posted at least 7 more comments.

Fat American bodies! I guess this makes him a "skinny European". Somewhere inside Michael Moores I'm sure there's a "thin man." Or something. Gotta love these moonbat stereotypes and cliches. They're so entertaining.

75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:51:36pm

re: #70 ProLifeLiberal

Oh geeze. Sorry.

Is this new stuff?

I have a friend who's dad started to get short-tempered and a little violent... turned out early onset Alzheimers. But he was older than 49.

Good luck with that.

76 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:51:48pm

re: #74 Gus 802

Is Michael Moore a troofer?

77 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:52:02pm

re: #64 ProLifeLiberal

And my dad has exploded again. This time over a timer on Roast Beef.

I'm calmer now. Grandparents siad they will help out Mom, and I realize that, if my Dad gets his wish, he will eventually blow up his own career out of being an explosive control freak.

He also hit the glasses off my mom's face. My mom, sister, and grandparents won't allow me to call the police.

Does you mom have any visible marks from being slapped?

78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:52:28pm

re: #74 Gus 802

Fat American bodies! I guess this makes him a "skinny European". Somewhere inside Michael Moores I'm sure there's a "thin man." Or something. Gotta love these moonbat stereotypes and cliches. They're so entertaining.

I have six pack abs that I lovingly protect with a layer of fat.

79 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:52:50pm

please delete #71
not cool

80 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:53:30pm

re: #76 harald

Is Michael Moore a troofer?

He's a craven opportunist and a flat out liar. If he thought there was any money in being a troofer, he would be.

81 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:53:56pm

re: #70 ProLifeLiberal

49 in a month.

He's on the path. Get the hell out, and check back in a decade or two. Work to create a safehaven for any of the others who find the will to go.

82 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:53:58pm

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This has been going on for years, but has gotten worse in recent times.

re: #77 b_sharp

When she came into my room, I didn't see anything.

83 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:54:17pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Path?

84 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:54:48pm

re: #64 ProLifeLiberal

He also hit the glasses off my mom's face. My mom, sister, and grandparents won't allow me to call the police.

They can't stop you, though. Perhaps you should make the call.
{{{PLL}}}

85 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:55:05pm

re: #72 Slumbering Behemoth

It only means that I dislike Animal Farm Ideologues more than I dislike thoroughly consistent loons.

It was more of a general question than one aimed directly at you. I thought that since you expressed a similar idea you might be able to answer the question.

86 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:55:17pm

re: #83 ProLifeLiberal

Path?

To a 15-second report on the evening news.

87 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:55:41pm

re: #76 harald

Is Michael Moore a troofer?

Not sure. But one doesn't have to be a truther in order to "fit in" with a general sub-culture. He's sympathetic to the cause I'm sure. Plus I'm thinking along the lines of "Fahrenheit 9/11". It's all part of the same genre. Same tree, different branch.

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:57:04pm

OH DEAR! MY WIFE IS WATCHING "FINDING BIGFOOT"! SOMEBODY SHOOT ME!

89 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:57:46pm

"I've had a number of firefighters tell me over the years and since Fahrenheit 9/11 that they heard these explosions-- that they believe there's MUCH more to the story than we've been told. I don't think the official investigations have told us the complete truth-- they haven't even told us half the truth." -- Michael Moore

Google

90 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:58:30pm

re: #89 Gus 802

"I've had a number of firefighters tell me over the years and since Fahrenheit 9/11 that they heard these explosions-- that they believe there's MUCH more to the story than we've been told. I don't think the official investigations have told us the complete truth-- they haven't even told us half the truth." -- Michael Moore

Google

Yeah, he's half way there.

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:58:37pm

re: #85 b_sharp

It was more of a general question than one aimed directly at you. I thought that since you expressed a similar idea you might be able to answer the question.

Ah, I see. Sorry, bro. I'm to hungover to formulate a reasonable answer.

92 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:59:24pm

re: #89 Gus 802

I'd say it's a big fat troofer.

93 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:59:29pm

re: #84 Slumbering Behemoth

I do want to respect my mom's wishes though.

re: #86 Decatur Deb

Ah. Don't worry, I will do your recommendation.

94 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 3:59:50pm

re: #92 Winny Spencer

I'd say it's a big fat troofer.

That was sort of my point all along. ;)

95 erik_t  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:00:21pm

re: #33 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I just have a hard time believing that, in the 20-30 years that any conspiracy supposedly would operate over, and amongst the tens or hundreds of thousands of people at every level of government who'd need to be involved, there's not been a single whistleblower. That there's been such a level of secrecy that anybody who might possibly come forward has been either scared into silence or terminated.

The same argument is equally valid with regards to the moon landings, which of course equally shouldn't need it in light of the science-based arguments.

96 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:00:58pm

Then you have Alex Jones. Won't find a six pack on him except perhaps in his refrigerator.

97 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:01:42pm

re: #82 ProLifeLiberal

This has been going on for years, but has gotten worse in recent times.

re: #77 b_sharp

When she came into my room, I didn't see anything.

Terrible bullshit. I have my suggestions, but have no idea if they are appropriate. Why not call the local battered women's hotline, tell the story, and listen to their advice. They are practiced.

98 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:02:29pm

re: #92 Winny Spencer

I'd say it's a big fat troofer.

It's not nice to call people fat. I think the medical term is 'morbidly obese'. He's a morbidly obese troofer.

99 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:04:18pm

re: #98 harald

It's not nice to call people fat. I think the medical term is 'morbidly obese'. He's a morbidly obese troofer.

is it important to be nice to fat MMoore?

100 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:04:24pm

re: #82 ProLifeLiberal

This has been going on for years, but has gotten worse in recent times.

re: #77 b_sharp

When she came into my room, I didn't see anything.

If you have friends to stay with and a way of making money, it looks like it's time for you to leave.
If you can, talk your mom into going with you.

You do not need to put up with violence. Point blank - your dad needs help. If he doesn't realize this and/or won't do anything about it, leaving or calling the police is necessary.

Do you have any connection to a local university? You might be able to get advice from one of the profs in Psych/Social Work/Phil if you know any. Look around locally, there should be access to help lines and temporary shelters.

101 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:05:21pm

re: #88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OH DEAR! MY WIFE IS WATCHING "FINDING BIGFOOT"! SOMEBODY SHOOT ME!

Send me your address and I'll courier a bullet to you.

102 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:05:27pm

re: #96 Gus 802

I am at least comforted by the fact that such lunacy is not restricted to Americans. It's a cold comfort, but a comfort none the less.

103 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:07:47pm

re: #98 harald

It's not nice to call people fat. I think the medical term is 'morbidly obese'. He's a morbidly obese troofer.

I call the guy in the mirror fat every time see him.

104 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:08:14pm

re: #99 albusteve

is it important to be nice to fat MMoore?

Well, let me ask you this: Sometimes, when one sees a fat fuck walking down the street one feels the urge to shout "hey, fat fuck!", but should one?

Besides, did he not lose weight? Wouldn't "Mr. Flappy Skin" or "Human Sail" be more appropriate?

105 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:08:17pm

Oh boy. Mom is cooking my turkey carcass. Turkey stew FTW!

106 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:08:46pm

re: #102 Slumbering Behemoth

I am at least comforted by the fact that such lunacy is not restricted to Americans. It's a cold comfort, but a comfort none the less.

Where did you get the idea it's not just Americans.

107 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:09:30pm

re: #104 harald

Well, let me ask you this: Sometimes, when one sees a fat fuck walking down the street one feels the urge to shout "hey, fat fuck!", but should one?

Besides, did he not lose weight? Wouldn't "Mr. Flappy Skin" or "Human Sail" be more appropriate?

he's a fat ass...there is no more to it...in his case, I could care less about prop[riety

108 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:10:12pm

re: #102 Slumbering Behemoth

I am at least comforted by the fact that such lunacy is not restricted to Americans. It's a cold comfort, but a comfort none the less.

Some people will believe anything if it's against those they hate. Which I believe you mentioned earlier? So in the case of 9/11 it was hatched largely as a movement against the Bush White House or Republicans in general. Of course we've seen how this quickly turned into other conspiracies against Obama from the very same people over the year. In any case this is something like confirmation bias perhaps? Or plane bias in general. Which is why the 9/11 conspiracies are popular in some pockets of the Middle East. You'll also find it in Communist nations or even former Communist nations. Which is why we see a lot of this at Russia Today or continually on Pravda. So people like Dylan Avery hated the his own country already. This fit him perfectly as it does with other people that already hate the USA.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:10:42pm

re: #106 b_sharp

Where did you get the idea it's not just Americans.

That's not my "idea", but I hear a lot of it from haters. "America this. Americans that. Derpity Derp Derp."

110 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:10:57pm

re: #107 albusteve

You're such a cold hearted bastard. Fatness is a desease!

111 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:11:20pm

re: #104 harald

Well, let me ask you this: Sometimes, when one sees a fat fuck walking down the street one feels the urge to shout "hey, fat fuck!", but should one?

Besides, did he not lose weight? Wouldn't "Mr. Flappy Skin" or "Human Sail" be more appropriate?

Eww.

Well, if he has lost weight, he can certainly afford cosmetic surgery to remove excess skin, even if he has to buy a ticket to a clinic in Cuba.

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:11:57pm

re: #108 Gus 802

Indeed. Very well said, Gus.

113 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:12:00pm

re: #109 Slumbering Behemoth

That's not my "idea", but I hear a lot of it from haters. "America this. Americans that. Derpity Derp Derp."

Hey. 7-3. Kansas wins. This can only mean one thing!

//

114 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:12:06pm

re: #111 Alouette

Eww.

Well, if he has lost weight, he can certainly afford cosmetic surgery to remove excess skin, even if he has to buy a ticket to a clinic in Cuba.

Buy a ticket? The wind would carry him.

115 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:13:23pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Lord Gravel bet on Kansas to win?
/

116 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:13:49pm

re: #100 b_sharp

I will be favoriting this for future reference. My dad has stopped yelling.

Unfortunately my little sister (16) got yellled at, insulted, and called the C-word (again). She was talking to her boyfriend about 20 minutes ago. Her boyfriend had similar issues with abusiveness. He has moved out to a relatives or friends apartment. (He is 16 too).

117 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:13:53pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Hey. 7-3. Kansas wins. This can only mean one thing!

//

Tebow is a pawn of the devil

118 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:13:56pm

Anonymous hacks California Statewide Law Enforcement Association

International hacker group Anonymous claims responsibility for hacking and releasing information about members of the California Statewide Law Enforcement Association union.
...
Anonymous released the names, addresses and phone numbers of members; plus, credit card information taken from the association's online gift store was posted.

"California police have a notorious history of brutality and therefore have been on our hitlist for a good minute now," Anonymous posted on a forum, where they released the information.

Anonymous cited the death of Oscar Grant, police interaction with the Occupy movement, the prison death of George Jackson and conditions in California prisons and jails as evidence of police cruelty.
....
At the end of the posted information, Anonymous said their next target is New York Police Chiefs.

"For our next owning we bring you multiple law enforcement targets in the state of New York, who has been on our crosshairs for some time due to their brutal repression of Occupy Wall Street," Anonymous said.

The group plans to release passwords and residential addresses for over 300 police chiefs in the state of New York. Anonymous also said they will release emails discussing police methods to combat protesters.

119 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:14:11pm

re: #115 Slumbering Behemoth

Lord Gravel bet on Kansas to win?
/

Broncos lost! There is no Gravel!

Quick, get Steve Doocy from Fox News on the phone.

//

120 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:14:15pm

re: #109 Slumbering Behemoth

That's not my "idea", but I hear a lot of it from haters. "America this. Americans that. Derpity Derp Derp."

It was a joke bro. That hangover is really giving you a headache isn't it? My condolences, I get massive hangover headaches just sniffing the bottle, and to make it worse, I live with a woman who does not get hangovers.

121 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:15:01pm

watch the second half of this clip

122 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:15:10pm

re: #116 ProLifeLiberal

Just did a little chat with her. My little sister is talking with friends about finding a temporary home until she turns 18.

123 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:15:44pm

re: #117 albusteve

Tebow is a pawn of the devil

Better than being a prawn.

124 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:16:11pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Anonymous hacks California Statewide Law Enforcement Association

hit list?...events will overtake these simps, then the real fun begins...just have to be patient

125 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:16:33pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

"For our next owning we bring you multiple law enforcement targets in the state of New York, who has been on our crosshairs for some time due to their brutal repression of Occupy Wall Street," Anonymous said.

Death threats. And the FBI should treat them as such.

126 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:17:27pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Anonymous hacks California Statewide Law Enforcement Association

Uh oh! They went after a union. Hope this does it. It's time to consider "anonymous" a terrorist organization. Regardless of they not being organized per se. Anyone caught and convicted doing these acts should be prosecuted under terrorist laws.

127 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:17:40pm

re: #124 albusteve

hit list?...events will overtake these simps, then the real fun begins...just have to be patient

My dislike for the Occupy thing has only grown. Violent protests, stealing credit cards and threatening police. This shit has to stop.

128 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:17:51pm

re: #120 b_sharp

It was a joke bro. That hangover is really giving you a headache isn't it? My condolences, I get massive hangover headaches just sniffing the bottle, and to make it worse, I live with a woman who does not get hangovers.

No headache, but my head feels like it's filled with cotton candy. It's definitely fucking with my cognitive abilities.

129 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:18:45pm

re: #123 b_sharp

Better than being a prawn.

the guy is another boring thumper...he can't wipe his ass without god's consent and approval

130 Lidane  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:18:52pm

re: #2 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Watching Crazy Uncle Ron's fans spin like dynamos to excuse this sort of bullshit has been absolutely hilarious. They've basically been reduced to trying to argue that he's "so busy" that he can't keep track of his own craziness.

That's what kills me. I've seen otherwise reasonable, smart people reduced to the whole "He's too busy to pay attention to that crap" line.

Really? And you want a guy like that to run the country? WTF.

131 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:19:53pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Please. Anonymous != Occupy. Anonymous is comprised almost totally of assholes who don't mind breaking the law. They're not a political movement or criminal organization, their a shifting mob.

132 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:20:20pm

re: #126 Gus 802

Uh oh! They went after a union. Hope this does it. It's time to consider "anonymous" a terrorist organization. Regardless of they not being organized per se. Anyone caught and convicted doing these acts should be prosecuted under terrorist laws.

I've been following anon news coverage pretty regularly the past few months. I see a lot of press about attacks, no arrests. Back when they were attacking banks and Paypal over the Wikileaks thing I thought the authorities were on top of it and building their case. Now I'm starting to think these Anon dickheads are pretty safe for now.

133 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:20:39pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

My dislike for the Occupy thing has only grown. Violent protests, stealing credit cards and threatening police. This shit has to stop.

I was never a fan of OWS...but I didn't get pummeled for it like you did...buncha rubes

134 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:20:46pm

I'm weirdly proud of my little sister right now.

135 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:20:57pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

My dislike for the Occupy thing has only grown. Violent protests, stealing credit cards and threatening police. This shit has to stop.

Meh. 50 years from now, the history books will portray this as the Great Awakening of the Proletariat and there will be no more credit cards.

136 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:21:01pm

re: #130 Lidane

That's what kills me. I've seen otherwise reasonable, smart people reduced to the whole "He's too busy to pay attention to that crap" line.

Really? And you want a guy like that to run the country? WTF.

I've come to call his "defense," as it is, "Left hand/Right hand Syndrome." Namely that he claims to be absolutely clueless as to what's being published in his name, yet at the same time convinced that whatever was published wasn't done so with his consent.

137 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:21:23pm

re: #54 Charles

Dylan Avery commented here at LGF, before I blocked his sorry ass.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'm so glad that tool's movement has been sputtering out and eating itself. It will still live on in the fringes with all the other conspiracy theories. Collecting dust.

138 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:21:36pm

re: #129 albusteve

the guy is another boring thumper...he can't wipe his ass without god's consent and approval

The arrogance necessary to believe you're favoured in your god's eyes over everybody else is stunning.

139 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:22:25pm

re: #131 BishopX

Please. Anonymous != Occupy. Anonymous is comprised almost totally of assholes who don't mind breaking the law. They're not a political movement or criminal organization, their a shifting mob.

Meh. Deaf ears and all that. He's on a mission.

140 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:22:40pm

re: #134 ProLifeLiberal

I'm weirdly proud of my little sister right now.

Brave young person.

141 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:22:49pm

re: #138 b_sharp

The arrogance necessary to believe you're favoured in your god's eyes over everybody else is stunning.

it's the new pink

142 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:23:16pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

I'm waiting for the Occupy is Hamas rant personally.

143 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:23:28pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

Meh. Deaf ears and all that. He's on a mission.

From god?

144 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:23:30pm

re: #140 b_sharp

Helps that her Boyfriend did the same thing. And that her friend's (and their families) are aware of how big an ass my dad is.

145 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:23:59pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

Meh. Deaf ear and all that. He's on a mission.

I can't help it if people are still deluding themselves about Anon and OWS. If people still believe they are unrelated at this point there's nothing I can do about it but scroll over.

146 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:24:05pm

re: #137 Idle Drifter

I'm so glad that tool's movement has been sputtering out and eating itself. It will still live on in the fringes with all the other conspiracy theories. Collecting dust.

Will eventually take it's place beside "FDR Knew About Pearl Harbor". Same crap.

147 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:24:19pm

re: #138 b_sharp

The arrogance necessary to believe you're favoured in your god's eyes over everybody else is stunning.

NO! NO! NO! It's the atheists that don't believe they are favored in god's eye that are arrogant. Don't you watch Fox News?
/

148 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:24:45pm

re: #142 BishopX

I'm waiting for the Occupy is Hamas rant personally.

Oh "'they're a buncha Jew-haters" is what he started with.

149 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:25:19pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I can't help it if people are still deluding themselves about Anon and OWS. If people still believe they are unrelated at this point there's nothing I can do about it but scroll over.

I'll make you Minister of Information, comrade

150 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:25:49pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I can't help it if people are still deluding themselves about Anon and OWS. If people still believe they are unrelated at this point there's nothing I can do about it but scroll over.

Lol, please do. It's not like anything you write on ows can be taken remotely seriously.

151 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:25:55pm

re: #148 Sergey Romanov

Oh "'they're a buncha Jew-haters" is what he started with.

Yes, The original organizer from Ad Busters has a well documented history of antisemitism.

152 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:26:07pm

re: #148 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, now all he has to do is up the derp and guilt by assocation a smidge and he'll be there.

153 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:26:31pm

re: #144 ProLifeLiberal

Helps that her Boyfriend did the same thing. And that her friend's (and their families) are aware of how big an ass my dad is.

There's been no physical abuse of you kids I hope.

154 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:26:31pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

The best thing about OWS is that it has showed that you really can make a difference banging bongos while hitting the bong.

155 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:26:40pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Yes, The original organizer from Ad Busters has a well documented history of antisemitism.

There we go again.

156 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:26:51pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Not important. Power to the People! Tear it all down, man!
/

157 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:27:31pm

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

158 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:28:05pm

re: #153 b_sharp

Not her.

159 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:28:26pm

re: #150 Sergey Romanov

Lol, please do. It's not like anything you write on ows can be taken remotely seriously.

except that OWS was a fraud and KT continuously pointed that out...nothing at all

160 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:28:32pm

Now my head does hurt. I think I'll take a shower.

Later Lizards.

161 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:28:34pm

re: #156 Slumbering Behemoth

Not important. Power to the People! Tear it all down, man!
/

criticism of ows? great.
KT on ows? non-information. even when he's right. crying wolf and all that.

162 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:28:49pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

You know, the sad thing is you would actully have some intelligent things to say if you used a narrower brush. That's really the shame, I agree with your characterization of the individual participants about 50% of the time. It's just your way of escalating resonsability that makes your analysis worthless.

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:29:07pm

re: #159 albusteve

except that OWS was a fraud and KT continuously pointed that out...nothing at all

Heh.

164 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:29:10pm

re: #147 Slumbering Behemoth

NO! NO! NO! It's the atheists that don't believe they are favored in god's eye that are arrogant. Don't you watch Fox News?
/

I don't watch Fox because I don't want to know how evil I am, nor do I want to know how much I hate god.

I do want to know how much I hate the tooth fairy though.

165 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:29:39pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

I can't quit you baby

166 Lidane  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:29:43pm

From Politico:

Huntsman hits 'The Ron Paul Chronicles'

Oh, how I wish Huntsman: a) had waited until 2016, and b) didn't feel obligated to pander to the economic illiterates in his own party. I might have given him a look in four years.

167 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:31:21pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

It's not what they say or do or want, but it's the beautifulness that will come out of people speaking truth or whatever to power. It's the outcomeness.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:31:40pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

People still obsessed with OWS? Creepy.

169 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:31:55pm

re: #158 ProLifeLiberal

And no Dad is arguing over an APOLOGY.

Ridiculous.

170 Lidane  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:32:03pm

re: #168 Sergey Romanov

People still obsessed with OWS? Creepy.

+1

171 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:32:27pm

re: #162 BishopX

You know, the sad thing is you would actully have some intelligent things to say if you used a narrower brush. That's really the shame, I agree with your characterization of the individual participants about 50% of the time. It's just your way of escalating resonsability that makes your analysis worthless.

yeah, similar to conservatives and the GOP hierarchy...broad brush indeed....funny how people lump individuals into groups and it's okay, til it's you and some group...then it's the tired broadbrush excuse

172 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:33:08pm

re: #167 harald

It's not what they say or do or want, but it's the beautifulness that will come out of people speaking truth or whatever to power. It's the outcomeness.

how Zen

173 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:33:38pm

re: #158 ProLifeLiberal

Not her.

You? Not good. You, because of your age, can directly have him charged with assault if necessary. You might investigate ways of getting him help first before making formal charges if it makes you feel more comfortable.

174 darthstar  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:33:52pm

Now that's what I'm fuckin' talking about.

Time for an evening stroll with the missus, then dinner, and then I'll come back and hear what idiocy Ron Paul said.

175 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:33:57pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Yes, The original organizer from Ad Busters has a well documented history of antisemitism.

Even going on demographics alone. Young leftist hipsters: "anonymous", OWS, Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks, etc. They may not all support each other but that's the trend. I know because I've seen this on numerous occasions. They're all allies in the same cause. OWS in NY already created a resolution in support of Bradley Manning. Here's one example:

Occupy Wall Street In Solidarity with Bradley Manning at NSA

Occupy Wall Street Takes A Road Trip For Bradley Manning, Brings Baggage

Wikileaks also supports Ron Paul to a certain extent and vice versa. Same tree different branches.

176 Lidane  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:33:57pm

Hey, Charles -- more Crazy Uncle Ron:

Ron Paul: Civil Rights Act of 1964 'Destroyed' Privacy

177 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:34:01pm

re: #168 Sergey Romanov

People still obsessed with OWS? Creepy.

it's a better obsession than the one over Ron Paul and the like

178 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:34:50pm

re: #172 albusteve

how Zen

Oui. Now, cat's pose to upward facing dog.

179 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:35:14pm

re: #178 harald

Oui. Now, cat's pose to upward facing dog.

bong me dude

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:35:42pm

re: #177 albusteve

it's a better obsession than the one over Ron Paul and the like

Not really. OWS is dead, get over it.

181 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:35:45pm

re: #171 albusteve

I know what is it with this blog and the size of the commenters brushes? I think there's some compensation going on here.


/

182 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:36:21pm

re: #173 b_sharp

I'm 21. It was when I was younger.

However, I'm now more agile because of it. An attempt over the summer, he couldn't touch me. I might be a bit weak, but I can be speedy and flexible.

183 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:36:59pm

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

Not really. OWS is dead, get over it.

dead?...
pass the kleenex

184 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:37:33pm

re: #181 BishopX

I know what is it with this blog and the size of the commenters brushes? I think there's some compensation going on here.

/

my broad is bigger than your broad

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:37:56pm

re: #183 albusteve

dead?...
pass the kleenex

If that makes anybody cope with the loss of the object of obsession, I will.

186 blueraven  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:38:00pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

No, people are still equating OWS with Anon and other groups.

re: #175 Gus 802

Even going on demographics alone. Young leftist hipsters: "anonymous", OWS, Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Wikileaks, etc. They may not all support each other but that's the trend. I know because I've seen this on numerous occasions. They're all allies in the same cause. OWS in NY already created a resolution in support of Bradley Manning. Here's one example:

Occupy Wall Street In Solidarity with Bradley Manning at NSA

Occupy Wall Street Takes A Road Trip For Bradley Manning, Brings Baggage

Wikileaks also supports Ron Paul to a certain extent and vice versa. Same tree different branches.

Really Gus? code fucking pink?

187 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:38:12pm

Hey, believe what you want to believe. That might sound familiar. But I also used to follow several official OWS Twitter feeds and I got tired of reading about how Bradley Manning was a hero with the occasional sprinkling of Wikileaks and a lot of chatter with "anonymous."

No thanks.

188 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:39:16pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

Defending which part of OWS? There were dozens of groups and many more completely unorganized participants. Some were evil, some were stupid, some were naive, some were principled, some were honest and some were hopeful.

The problem most of see is a product of viewing what took place as a homogeneous gathering of common goals and methods.

189 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:39:43pm

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

Not really. OWS is dead, get over it.

If it is they committed suicide by aligning themselves with the fringe. Some would argue that they always did. And again you know that I gave them a chance. They lost my support.

190 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:39:53pm

re: #185 Sergey Romanov

If that makes anybody cope with the loss of the object of obsession, I will.

you're being played...the obsession over OWS had to do with the criticism, like you and others...remember the lame plea to ban the subject?...LOL!

191 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:40:53pm

re: #167 harald

It's not what they say or do or want, but it's the beautifulness that will come out of people speaking truth or whatever to power. It's the outcomeness.

Beautiful strawman. Would you like a match, or is that torch going to be enough?

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:41:24pm

re: #187 Gus 802

Obviously, there's a natural attraction between these groups. But surely you can see that on the basis of mere "connections" to declare each new Anon hooliganism or crime as belonging to OWS proper is just, I dunno, utterly dishonest?

193 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:41:24pm

re: #169 ProLifeLiberal

And no Dad is arguing over an APOLOGY.

Ridiculous.

Apology from whom?

194 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:42:59pm

re: #189 Gus 802

If it is they committed suicide by aligning themselves with the fringe. Some would argue that they always did. And again you know that I gave them a chance. They lost my support.

They didn't align themselves with the fringe, they simply stopped attracting enough non-fringe participants. The problem with leaderless desiscion making is that only the people willing to show up day after day get heard. Once OWS started stagnating the normal people started being less active. Which left the fringe in control. That's the biggest failing of the movement imo.

195 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:43:22pm

re: #192 Sergey Romanov

Obviously, there's a natural attraction between these groups. But surely you can see that on the basis of mere "connections" to declare each new Anon hooliganism or crime as belonging to OWS proper is just, I dunno, utterly dishonest?

Well yeah. Obviously in this case we're talking specifically about "anonymous" and not OWS. This hacking wasn't committed by OWS, it was committed by "anonymous."

196 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:43:31pm

re: #157 Winny Spencer

People are still defending OWS? That's curious.

Not that surprising. Pretty much all the wingnuts still think the Tea Party was the most awesomest thing ever. I haven't seen a single mainstream conservative blog say "Hay maybe that whole Tea Party thing was kinda stupid". Ideologues have their preset views of what they like and what they don't like, everything else is just shuffled around to accommodate their world view. Anyone still left defending OWS is probably stuck that way.

197 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:43:44pm

re: #193 b_sharp

Mom. She thinks she bumped the timer, which turned it off. Which started this whole idiotic episode.

My little sister has been called the b-word, skank, whore, and the c-word for daring to call "Dad's" yelling stupid.

198 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:43:50pm

re: #190 albusteve

you're being played...the obsession over OWS had to do with the criticism, like you and others...remember the lame plea to ban the subject?...LOL!

Actually the plea was when OWS was already in the last stages of dying, and everybody's had enough of talk about it.

199 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:43:55pm

re: #171 albusteve

yeah, similar to conservatives and the GOP hierarchy...broad brush indeed...funny how people lump individuals into groups and it's okay, til it's you and some group...then it's the tired broadbrush excuse

Steve, the self appointed leaders of the right are the ones being criticized, the OWS had no leaders, although some of the groups within that event did. Criticize them individually and most of us would have no problem.

200 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:44:47pm

re: #191 b_sharp

Beautiful strawman. Would you like a match, or is that torch going to be enough?

Thanks for noticing my carefully crafted strawman. If he made you sad, I appologize.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:45:24pm

re: #195 Gus 802

Agreed. That's why I don't listen to KT on OWS. I know I won't get no-spin info.

202 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:45:52pm

re: #198 Sergey Romanov

Actually the plea was when OWS was already in the last stages of dying, and everybody's had enough of talk about it.

everybody?...LOL
nice dodge...but I think you mean the OWS diehard supporters had had enough

203 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:46:01pm

re: #199 b_sharp

Exactly! If KT had stuck to reaming out the stupid fucks within anonymous who pulled this off, I would have no problem with it.

204 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:47:13pm

"Whaaaaaaa!"
Image: x610.jpg

205 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:47:39pm

CEASE THIS DIVISIVE TALK!
WE MUST THINK AS ONE!

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:47:41pm

re: #202 albusteve

everybody?...LOL
nice dodge...but I think you mean the OWS diehard supporters had had enough

I don't know many supporters of ows at lgf. Lazardo was one, he's no longer with us. Gus was hardcore, but he's changed his opinion. Who else? If there are any, they sure are silent.

207 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:48:45pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

Put me down as a qualified supporter.

208 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:49:03pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

I don't know many supporters of ows at lgf. Lazardo was one, he's no longer with us. Gus was hardcore, but he's changed his opinion. Who else? If there are any, they sure are silent.

of course they are silent...good observation

209 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:50:35pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

I don't know many supporters of ows at lgf. Lazardo was one, he's no longer with us. Gus was hardcore, but he's changed his opinion. Who else? If there are any, they sure are silent.

I support many of their goals. Their tactics are infantile and largely self-defeating. They have brought some attention to thieves that were escaping in the night.

210 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:52:36pm

re: #200 harald

Thanks for noticing my carefully crafted strawman. If he made you sad, I appologize.

Why would a strawman make me sad? Why would being critical of a movement make me sad? Watching a dead horse being beaten is humorous for a while but the incessant noise eventually becomes annoying.

211 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:52:55pm

re: #209 Decatur Deb

I support many of their goals. Their tactics are infantile and largely self-defeating. They have brought some attention to thieves that were escaping in the night.

their goals were never an issue...their behavior was deplorable

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:53:16pm

re: #208 albusteve

of course they are silent...good observation

The point is, there never were many supporters of ows here. There were people who agreed with some vague ows goals, but that does not equal to the support of the movement. There were people like Charles, Obdi or me who were aghast at ugly rhetoric from certain ows critics. This also does not equal ows support.
Finally, there were people who explicitly supported ows. But I can't name more than half a dozen of them.

213 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:54:01pm

re: #205 albusteve

CEASE THIS DIVISIVE TALK!
WE MUST THINK AS ONE!

One what?

Can we all think like an elephant? I've always wanted a long trunk.

214 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:54:06pm

re: #211 albusteve

their goals were never an issue...their behavior was deplorable

Mostly--but at least they put down the remote and got off their asses. Some hope there.

215 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:54:51pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

I don't know many supporters of ows at lgf. Lazardo was one, he's no longer with us. Gus was hardcore, but he's changed his opinion. Who else? If there are any, they sure are silent.

I'm not silent, I just don't talk a lot, mostly.

Hell I even support Ron Paul sometimes. Legalize pot, for example.

I would say I support the OWS to the extent that it is not taken over by hooligans, but then it is no longer OWS, is it?

216 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:55:55pm

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Mostly--but at least they put down the remote and got off their asses. Some hope their.

then flunked their classes at NYU

217 blueraven  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:55:58pm

re: #195 Gus 802

Well yeah. Obviously in this case we're talking specifically about "anonymous" and not OWS. This hacking wasn't committed by OWS, it was committed by "anonymous."

That's not what KT implied in his post Gus.

re: #127 Killgore Trout

My dislike for the Occupy thing has only grown. Violent protests, stealing credit cards and threatening police. This shit has to stop.

218 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:56:03pm

re: #210 b_sharp

Why would a strawman make me sad? Why would being critical of a movement make me sad? Watching a dead horse being beaten is humorous for a while but the incessant noise eventually becomes annoying.

I was just crafting another strawman... Pay no heed.

219 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:56:15pm

In any case. "Anonymous" is the real issue here. What they did in California is seriously screwed up. While there may be some loose alliances with OWS focusing on that dilutes the issue of the dangers of "anonymous."

220 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:56:35pm

re: #216 albusteve

then flunked their classes at NYU

PoliSci practicum for the smart ones.

221 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:56:52pm

re: #215 Naso Tang

I'm not silent, I just don't talk a lot, mostly.

Hell I even support Ron Paul sometimes. Legalize pot, for example.

I would say I support the OWS to the extent that it is not taken over by hooligans, but then it is no longer OWS, is it?

I would say we should look at it historically. Now the remnants of ows consist of various fringe bozos (as I predicted months ago). And that's ows now. It's not completely the same as ows 2 months ago.

222 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:57:48pm

re: #220 Decatur Deb

PoliSci practicum for the smart ones.

yeah, field trip to us hayseeds

223 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:57:53pm

re: #217 blueraven

That's not what KT implied in his post Gus.

re: #127 Killgore Trout

I'm speaking for myself.

224 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:58:06pm

re: #221 Sergey Romanov

I would say we should look at it historically. Now the remnants of ows consist of various fringe bozos (as I predicted months ago). And that's ows now. It's not completely the same as ows 2 months ago.

I'm waiting for the remake with more CGI and surround-sound drum circles.

225 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:58:40pm

re: #221 Sergey Romanov

I would say we should look at it historically. Now the remnants of ows consist of various fringe bozos (as I predicted months ago). And that's ows now. It's not completely the same as ows 2 months ago.

you actually predicted that?...wow

226 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:59:07pm

I'm not "pissed off" at OWS either. Currently I'm on Glenn Greenwald's case.

227 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:59:26pm

re: #223 Gus 802

I'm speaking for myself.

as for myself, I'm glad to see you posting again...
buy me a beer

228 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 4:59:33pm

Why? Why do they always show up at the end of a dead thread?

What's in it for them?

229 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:00:25pm

re: #224 Decatur Deb

I'm waiting for the remake with more CGI and surround-sound drum circles.

Let's just hope they haven't perfected smell-o-vision by then.

230 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:00:36pm

re: #228 freetoken

-431 karma across 34 posts? that's impressive.

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:00:41pm

re: #225 albusteve

you actually predicted that?...wow

Well, if people are taking credit for whatever stuck to the wall, I might as well take credit for calling it back then without having had to throw kitchen sink at them.

232 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:00:51pm

re: #228 freetoken

Why? Why do they always show up at the end of a dead thread?

What's in it for them?

oh my!...an opinion!
kill it!

233 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:01:31pm

re: #228 freetoken

Why? Why do they always show up at the end of a dead thread?

What's in it for them?

It's so they can have the last word. That delusional feeling where they stood up to the big, bad lizard army.

234 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:01:33pm

re: #232 albusteve

His statement about temperatures is not an "opinion", it's willful stupidity.

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:01:36pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

I don't know many supporters of ows at lgf. Lazardo was one, he's no longer with us. Gus was hardcore, but he's changed his opinion. Who else? If there are any, they sure are silent.

me

but I'm too busy to play on the threads about it these days, business is too good

236 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:02:37pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

mea culpa for forgetting you and the other windy ;)

237 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:03:18pm

re: #231 Sergey Romanov

Well, if people are taking credit for whatever stuck to the wall, I might as well take credit for calling it back then without having had to throw kitchen sink at them.

I jest...I never had any confidence in the OWS gig...I trashed them early and often...they fucked around in NYC and WS laughed at them, and rightly so...the solution is in DC, hello?

238 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:04:47pm

re: #221 Sergey Romanov

I would say we should look at it historically. Now the remnants of ows consist of various fringe bozos (as I predicted months ago). And that's ows now. It's not completely the same as ows 2 months ago.

The issue of income disparity has become mainstream to a large extent because of OWS. By itself it could never become a political force without forming a new political party, which obviously won't happen, anymore than black neighborhood riots in the past did.

However there is a lasting effect and the sentiments won't go away however badly they may be expressed, while the economic circumstances remain. Attention will be paid, regardless of the disparaging remarks by the likes of the Newt, who struck me as coincidentally having a lot in common with Putin recently.

239 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:04:51pm

re: #234 freetoken

His statement about temperatures is not an "opinion", it's willful stupidity.

so what?....willful stupidity is quite common, no reason for alarm

240 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:05:40pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

me

but I'm too busy to play on the threads about it these days, business is too good

good for you...there is a sports car in your future

241 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:06:09pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

I agree.

242 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:08:55pm

just because I like it...
Ozzy

243 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:09:09pm

Keep in mind that the big prize in 2012 should be to get Obama re-elected and to at least hold the Senate. That is if you lean in that direction.

244 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:11:41pm

re: #243 Gus 802

And building a loud political force to the left of Obama will help that. It's hard to call the guy in the middle a socialist.

245 Lidane  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:12:11pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

The issue of income disparity has become mainstream to a large extent because of OWS. By itself it could never become a political force without forming a new political party, which obviously won't happen, anymore than black neighborhood riots in the past did.

However there is a lasting effect and the sentiments won't go away however badly they may be expressed, while the economic circumstances remain. Attention will be paid, regardless of the disparaging remarks by the likes of the Newt, who struck me as coincidentally having a lot in common with Putin recently.

Yes, this.

OWS itself will go the way of the ether, just like a lot of other movements before it. However, the issues they raised and the general ideas they talked about with respect to income inequality are going to stick around for a while.

246 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:12:23pm

The real world imitating art:

David Tennant marries former 'Doctor Who' co-star Georgia Moffett

David Tennant married his former Doctor Who co-star Georgia Moffett in London yesterday (December 31). The couple, who have an eight-month-old daughter, tied the knot at an undisclosed location in the capital in front of close friends and family, reports the Sunday Mirror.

The pair met when Moffett played the daughter of tenth Doctor Tennant in a 2008 episode of the hit BBC sci-fi show. In the episode, titled 'The Doctor's Daughter', Moffett's character Jenny is created from a tissue sample from the Doctor's hand.

Coincidentally, Moffett is also the real-life daughter of Peter Davidson, who played the fifth incarnation of the Doctor in the early 1980s.

The whole plot is so twisted it could itself become a story-line.

247 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:13:22pm

re: #245 Lidane

Yes, this.

OWS itself will go the way of the ether, just like a lot of other movements before it. However, the issues they raised and the general ideas they talked about with respect to income inequality are going to stick around for a while.

Moreover, I remember there were items saying Obama's campaign will be built on these issues.

248 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:15:13pm

re: #232 albusteve

oh my!...an opinion!
kill it!

If it was an opinion, he/she/it can voice it where the rest of us can address it. On the other hand, science is not decided by opinion, and that was a demonstrably wrong comment about a science.

249 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:15:19pm

re: #247 Sergey Romanov

Moreover, I remember there were items saying Obama's campaign will be built on these issues.

I think Obama's campaign will be showing Youtubes of his TPGOP opposition.

250 Lidane  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:15:49pm

re: #247 Sergey Romanov

Moreover, I remember there were items saying Obama's campaign will be built on these issues.

The GOP is basically handing Obama the issue with the payroll tax.

251 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:15:57pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

me

but I'm too busy to play on the threads about it these days, business is too good

Good for you man. Can you lend me a few thou?

252 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:16:05pm

re: #249 Decatur Deb

I think Obama's campaign will be showing Youtubes of his TPGOP opposition.

Well, that too.

253 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:17:03pm

re: #248 b_sharp

If it was an opinion, he/she/it can voice it where the rest of us can address it. On the other hand, science is not decided by opinion, and that was a demonstrably wrong comment about a science.

it's what it is...people are skeptical of science at the moment...I'm indifferent

254 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:18:09pm

re: #232 albusteve

oh my!...an opinion!
kill it!

Do you give equal weight to all "opinions" regardless of their actual weight?

255 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:19:25pm

re: #254 Naso Tang

Do you give equal weight to all "opinions" regardless of their actual weight?

no, I ignore most opinions and it's turned out well for me

256 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:19:57pm

re: #254 Naso Tang

Of course this is steve. He ignores everyones opinions equally.

258 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:22:32pm

re: #256 BishopX

Of course this is steve. He ignores everyones opinions equally.

mostly, yeah...politically speaking that is...I just go with the flow

259 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:23:03pm

re: #255 albusteve

no, I ignore most opinions and it's turned out well for me

Not to nit pick, but you didn't ignore the recent one in question. You implicitly defended it.

As to ignoring most opinions, you would then be a self taught man, starting from basic principles without prior experience (aka opinions).

I doubt it.

260 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:23:23pm

I had a good job and was well paid...
Hiatt

261 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:25:02pm

re: #259 Naso Tang

Not to nit pick, but you didn't ignore the recent one in question. You implicitly defended it.

As to ignoring most opinions, you would then be a self taught man, starting from basic principles without prior experience (aka opinions).

I doubt it.

some deep derp there...
I'm not isolated in a cave...it's a bunkhouse

262 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:25:04pm

I'm against the drug war, as is Ron Paul. That doesn't mean I'm Ron Paul. ;)

263 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:25:17pm

re: #246 freetoken

TVTropes had a good summary of this.

A Doctor's daughter who played the Doctor's daughter and then had the Doctor's daughter.

264 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:25:42pm

re: #262 Gus 802

I'm against the drug war, as is Ron Paul. That doesn't mean I'm Ron Paul. ;)

legal pot would be cool...
Paul/12

265 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:26:21pm

re: #264 albusteve

legal pot would be cool...
Paul/12

@tanehisi Ta-Nehisi Coates
"Slavery wasn't so bad--but just to be clear, I like to smoke blunts ridiculously..."

266 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:26:23pm

re: #263 ProLifeLiberal

And it get's better:

He's engaged to Georgia Moffett (and has a child with her, Olive), who played his Opposite Sex Clone in "The Doctor's Daughter", and who is ex-Doctor Peter Davison's real-life daughter. (Guess who one of Tennant's favorite Doctors is? Right in one. David Tennant is now the ultimate Promoted Fanboy.)

267 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:26:26pm

re: #253 albusteve

...I'm indifferent

If that were true you would not be here, but hanging out with other indifferent people with a bunch of six packs.

268 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:27:36pm

re: #234 freetoken

His statement about temperatures is not an "opinion", it's willful stupidity.

Willful stupidity that will get lots and lots and lots of people killed.

LVQ is right. AGW deniers (i.e. the moneyed propagandists) should be charged with crimes against humanity. As for their useful idiot followers? The rest of us might as well make money selling them property in soon-to-be disaster zones.

269 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:28:42pm

re: #264 albusteve

legal pot would be cool...
Paul/12

I did have some hope that Obama might decriminalize weed in his second term but that would require a Dem congress. That looks pretty unlikely.

270 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:29:06pm

re: #267 Naso Tang

If that were true you would not be here, but hanging out with other indifferent people with a bunch of six packs.

Why not? Does one have to have a "cause" to be here? Can't people just come, hang and be indifferent about many of the issues posted here (or anywhere else, for that matter)

271 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:29:11pm

re: #267 Naso Tang

If that were true you would not be here, but hanging out with other indifferent people with a bunch of six packs.

I'm here because I love you...you are the Wind and I am the Lion...we are One

272 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:29:45pm

Happy new year from me and ice!

273 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:30:20pm

re: #272 Jimmah

Happy new year from me and ice!

[Video]

Thanks Jimmah ,, back at both of you

274 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:30:31pm

re: #269 Killgore Trout

I did have some hope that Obama might decriminalize weed in his second term but that would require a Dem congress. That looks pretty unlikely.

Pot Greed will take decades to sort out...I smoke world class erb as it is, so fuck them

275 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:30:32pm

re: #272 Jimmah

hey there

276 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:32:20pm

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

Weasel's psychedelic dance of death:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

277 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:33:25pm

re: #270 sattv4u2

Why not? Does one have to have a "cause" to be here? Can't people just come, hang and be indifferent about many of the issues posted here (or anywhere else, for that matter)

Argumentative.

You understood me the first time, and still do.

278 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:34:28pm

Ten-Say is a state

279 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:34:39pm

re: #274 albusteve

Pot Greed will take decades to sort out...I smoke world class erb as it is, so fuck them

I find today's weed is a bit to strong for me but I'm trying to build a tolerance. The neighborhood growers keep bringing me weed as a gardening consultant fee. I don't have quite the passion for it that I had as a teen. I still like my booze too much but the weed is probably better for me. Maybe I'll make a resolution to make the switch this new year.

280 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:38:08pm

re: #262 Gus 802

I'm against the drug war, as is Ron Paul. That doesn't mean I'm Ron Paul. ;)

you can't be ron paul cuz i'm ron paul!

281 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:38:17pm

re: #269 Killgore Trout

I did have some hope that Obama might decriminalize weed in his second term but that would require a Dem congress. That looks pretty unlikely.

The big deal now is some folks are trying to blame Obama for a DEA "crack down" on medical marijuana and dispensaries. Once against we see people who seem to think that the president has magical powers. He's limited in how he can use his executive power and as you know an executive order can be easily reversed with a new administration.

Practically speaking some of the medical marijuana dispensaries need to clean up their act and present a more professional "medical" appearance if they are indeed, well, medical. Right now there's a great deal of "recreational air" to this budding industry. In Colorado they will be closing those within one mile of schools. There is a lot of abuse going on now and it's very easy to get a prescription for "medical" marijuana if you seek that.

It's not high on my list of priorities for the president. I've always said that the medical marijuana route was the wrong way to go and that it should flatly be legalized for recreational use. Right now tying it in as medical also brings it under the eye of the FDA. Big mistake for those that seek recreational use.

282 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:38:47pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

I find today's weed is a bit to strong for me but I'm trying to build a tolerance. The bachelorhood growers keep bringing me weed as a gardening consultant fee. I don't have quite the passion for it that I had as a teen. I still like my booze too much but the weed is probably better for me. Maybe I'll make a resolution to make the switch this new year.

I have the opportunity so I buy it, but I use it in very small amt's....medical pot grown indoors in CA...very potent

283 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:39:39pm

re: #268 publicityStunted

The rest of us might as well make money selling them property in soon-to-be disaster zones.

Just sell 'em SURVIVAL SEEDS and magickal poultices, that's what hucksters like Joe Farah do.

284 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:39:57pm

OMG he's on a roll tonight...

Ta-Nehisi Coates
@tanehisi Ta-Nehisi Coates
"I love the Confederate Flag, but the important thing to remember here is I love chronic more...." #imwithdre

285 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:40:39pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

I find today's weed is a bit to strong for me but I'm trying to build a tolerance. The bachelorhood growers keep bringing me weed as a gardening consultant fee. I don't have quite the passion for it that I had as a teen. I still like my booze too much but the weed is probably better for me. Maybe I'll make a resolution to make the switch this new year.

I still remember the smell of good Moroccan hash of 40+ years ago. I understand that the formulation has changed and I have tasted some since then, but I no longer have a desire to rewire my brain connections, beyond the buzz of a few beers, wine or gin and tonic.

286 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:41:12pm

re: #262 Gus 802

I'm against the drug war, as is Ron Paul. That doesn't mean I'm Ron Paul. ;)

Gus (Ron Paul) 802.

Really doesn't have much of a ring to it.
Best stick to Gus802, The Guster, or Sensei Google-Fu.

287 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:42:17pm

If I can ever generate enough energy to do it, I'll write up a Page titled "The Unbearable Slowness of Climate Change, or, Why AGW Has No Political Power".

These big picture issues are just not easily nugget-ized into the bites needed for human decision making on the personal level, and that includes the retail politics that are part of American governance.

288 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:42:30pm

This blog is just full of druggies! /// (<---- never smoked)

289 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:42:59pm

re: #288 Sergey Romanov

This blog is just full of druggies! /// (<--- never smoked)

I never inhaled!

290 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:43:05pm

re: #288 Sergey Romanov

I just do chocolate.

291 Digital Display  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:43:30pm

re: #282 albusteve

I have the opportunity so I buy it, but I use it in very small amt's...medical pot grown indoors in CA...very potent

If the Cowboys lose tonight you'll probably smoke a weeks supply of pot in one setting..:)

292 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:44:23pm

re: #288 Sergey Romanov
I don't smoke or drink. I do science fiction. I like chocolate too.

293 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:44:24pm

re: #281 Gus 802

The big deal now is some folks are trying to blame Obama for a DEA "crack down" on medical marijuana and dispensaries. Once against we see people who seem to think that the president has magical powers. He's limited in how he can use his executive power and as you know an executive order can be easily reversed with a new administration.

Practically speaking some of the medical marijuana dispensaries need to clean up their act and present a more professional "medical" appearance if they are indeed, well, medical. Right now there's a great deal of "recreational air" to this budding industry. In Colorado they will be closing those within one mile of schools. There is a lot of abuse going on now and it's very easy to get a prescription for "medical" marijuana if you seek that.

It's not high on my list of priorities for the president. I've always said that the medical marijuana route was the wrong way to go and that it should flatly be legalized for recreational use. Right now tying it in as medical also brings it under the eye of the FDA. Big mistake for those that seek recreational use.

There's not much the President can do within the current legal situation. I looked into the "legal" scene here in Portland last year thinking I can grow some weed for genuinely sick people and make a little pocket money. After a little investigation it didn't take much to learn it's just a scam to let people smoke recreationally with a bogus doctor's note. (which is fine by me)
The core issue is the dispensaries can't legally claim income from the locally "legal" weed they sell because you can't claim Pot Salesman on your federal income tax. It becomes an IRS issue. It's a mess.

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:45:22pm

Weed-smoking hippies! Get off my lawn!

295 Gus  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:46:04pm

re: #294 Sergey Romanov

Weed-smoking hippies! Get off my lawn!

Don't bogart that joint my friend...

296 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:46:26pm

re: #290 freetoken

I just do chocolate.

I'm addicted.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:46:43pm

re: #295 Gus 802

Don't bogart that joint my friend...

*go go gadget pepper spray*

298 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:46:48pm

re: #291 HoosierHoops

If the Cowboys lose tonight you'll probably smoke a weeks supply of pot in one setting..:)

if the CBs lose, I will kill myself...again

299 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:47:44pm

re: #296 b_sharp

I'm addicted.

At times I have used ephedra/ephedrine at very lose doses, for extended periods, as a help in cutting fat. But I tire of it after a while.

Chocolate is something with which I never tire.

300 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:48:10pm

re: #287 freetoken

You've said that about fifty zillion times. If you gathered up all the energy you spent on making each post saying you'd do it, you could have done it by now.

Which is, oddly, appropriate to the subject.

301 Digital Display  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:48:20pm

re: #298 albusteve

if the CBs lose, I will kill myself...again

I was happy the Colts lost today..We get the number 1 draft pick.. If you are going to be a loser..go all the way..

302 freetoken  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:51:08pm

re: #300 Obdicut

Procrastination is best modeled.

303 aagcobb  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:53:46pm

re: #122 ProLifeLiberal

Just did a little chat with her. My little sister is talking with friends about finding a temporary home until she turns 18.

If he has ever hit your sister, you should call the police.

304 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:54:33pm

re: #302 freetoken

Procrastination is best modeled.

Procrastination should be savoured.

305 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:55:07pm

re: #304 b_sharp

Procrastination should be savoured.

,, I'll get back to you on that,,,,

306 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:55:09pm

re: #301 HoosierHoops

I was happy the Colts lost today..We get the number 1 draft pick.. If you are going to be a loser..go all the way..

just bad luck, eh?

307 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:56:51pm

re: #182 ProLifeLiberal

I'm 21. It was when I was younger.

However, I'm now more agile because of it. An attempt over the summer, he couldn't touch me. I might be a bit weak, but I can be speedy and flexible.

PLL, not sure how behind I am, but please, figure this out. You can.

308 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 5:57:50pm

re: #301 HoosierHoops

I was happy the Colts lost today..We get the number 1 draft pick.. If you are going to be a loser..go all the way..

Unless they know Peyton will not be able to play next year, the Colts could (should) trade the pick for a boatload of help

There'll be another "QB of the decade" along next year, or the year after

Of course, if they DO know that he won't be able to play ,,, Luck or RG3 ,, tough choice

309 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:02:19pm

re: #308 sattv4u2

Unless they know Peyton will not be able to play next year, the Colts could (should) trade the pick for a boatload of help

There'll be another "QB of the decade" along next year, or the year after

Of course, if they DO know that he won't be able to play ,,, Luck or RG3 ,, tough choice

cut him and draft RG3....it's about making money, and you can't be sentimental...Manning knows this

310 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:03:00pm

re: #298 albusteve

if the CBs lose, I will kill myself...again

Steve, it's not like they're playing the Eagles. Eli Manning is a true sportsman, and so is Jason Pierre-Paul. I'd much rather the Giants won this game. Eli deserves to go to the playoffs this year.

311 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:03:06pm

re: #309 albusteve

cut him and draft RG3...it's about making money, and you can't be sentimental...Manning knows this

Yes it is ,, and the place will be 1/3 empty if they cut him (and he CAN play)

312 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:05:20pm

re: #309 albusteve

cut him and draft RG3...it's about making money, and you can't be sentimental...Manning knows this

Trade the #1 pick instead and build up the existing team instead. It's still built around Manning, and 1 off-season isn't going to undo that.

313 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:07:29pm

Also I did want to give one quote regarding the thread's topic:

"Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." - Whittaker Chambers

314 albusteve  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:08:01pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Trade the #1 pick instead and build up the existing team instead. It's still built around Manning, and 1 off-season isn't going to undo that.

he's too old

315 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:08:01pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

The issue of income disparity has become mainstream to a large extent because of OWS. By itself it could never become a political force without forming a new political party, which obviously won't happen, anymore than black neighborhood riots in the past did.

However there is a lasting effect and the sentiments won't go away however badly they may be expressed, while the economic circumstances remain. Attention will be paid, regardless of the disparaging remarks by the likes of the Newt, who struck me as coincidentally having a lot in common with Putin recently.

Exactly, this was the original intent and the success. Mention the 99% and my dad, fox news mindless, agrees with that premise. We all do, unless we start picking at the minutia.

316 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:08:40pm

re: #303 aagcobb

She's never been hit. But the emotional crap she gets makes up for it.

re: #307 Stanley Sea

I'm beginning to figure out some plans here. I'm much more cool-headed than last week's incident.

I actually had a chat with the Host of an Internet Radio Show that I watch on Monday's last week. Awesome guy, went as far as to say I will be better off without my Dad. When I get a good stable job, I will be donating for his licensing fee every year. Music Industry is a racket.

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:09:38pm

re: #11 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I am just eternally grateful that that knucklehead took the rabbit out of the cage before building a fire under it.

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:10:41pm

re: #13 Gus 802

Thousands of architects and engineers said it was so!

//

*Apparently there are also thousands of crazy architects and engineers amongst the 10s of thousands.

I once built a doghouse, with some assistance from my uncle. That was twenty-five years ago. Both my uncle and I are architects and engineers with twenty-five years of experience.

(I have since put up some shelves in my home.)

Pleased to meet you!

319 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:11:16pm

re: #14 Alouette

Which leads to the ever-timely question, what sorcery is going on in steel mills? And is it pleasing to the Lord or not?

320 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:14:15pm

re: #276 Jimmah

Weasel's psychedelic dance of death:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

LOL go weasel!

321 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:16:41pm

re: #315 Stanley Sea

Exactly, this was the original intent and the success. Mention the 99% and my dad, fox news mindless, agrees with that premise. We all do, unless we start picking at the minutia.

I don't agree, regarding income disparity that is. I find it a fairly worthless discussion.

322 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:20:04pm

re: #276 Jimmah

Weasel's psychedelic dance of death:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Would you please tell Ice to stop eating all of the lemmings over there in Scotland? She's causing the Snowy Owls to migrate and some of them are winding up here in Chicago.

/This post is entirely in jest, though Chicago really is seeing a winter influx of snowy owls.

323 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:25:15pm

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

I don't agree, regarding income disparity that is. I find it a fairly worthless discussion.

It's one of the largest crises facing our nation, and it's making us weaker.

You should care.

324 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:26:10pm

re: #323 Obdicut

It's one of the largest crises facing our nation, and it's making us weaker.

You should care.

How so?

325 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:35:08pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

How so?

I've explained this to you before. I'll do so again, but please put some effort into actually remembering it.

The economic power of the United States comes from three sources: One is our capability to produce goods and services. Despite what you've heard our capacity to produce goods is higher than its ever been-- manufacturing in the US has not shrunk. The second is our financial sector, the capital in capitalism. This, however, is tricky because it is highly multinational, and carries enormous risk, as we've seen with the fiscal meltdown. The final, and most important part of our economic power, is the purchasing power of the average American worker.

That purchasing power, that gigantic market, is why it is relatively easy to start businesses in the US-- people have the money to buy things. It is why other countries want to please us-- so that we'll allow them access to our markets. It is what drives applied technology-- that people want more and better ways of doing things, newer gadgets, etc. It is the fuel of the economy, it is the velocity of the money.

As our income disparity increases, that velocity slows. The highest tier of incomes do not spend their incomes. They do not drive the economy. The true job creators in the US are the average citizen going out to buy something, because that exchange of money is what creates the job. As those people have less and less to spend-- and as more and more of it is spend on food, housing, and medical care-- the power of our domestic economy shrinks and shrinks, other countries begin to turn away from us and towards China, Europe, Japan, and innovation and small business begin to stagnate and fail.

The vivacity and excellence of capitalism comes not from massive corporations growing ever-bigger, finding out new ways to exploit markets, but from the competition and turblent semi-Darwinian selection of it. That energy is only available if there are people willing to spend money on the products and services of those young companies.

And that is just the primary effects, it's not even the secondary effects of education slipping away as fewer and fewer people can afford it, of costs to the government increasing as fewer and fewer people can pay for things like heating oil themselves.

326 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:42:00pm

re: #325 Obdicut

I'm glad you had the patience to repeat this, as I missed it the first time around. Thanks. Favorited.

327 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:45:21pm

re: #326 Slumbering Behemoth

I should append it and say that underlying all our economic power is technology, is science. Basic science, as done at government labs and state schools, and very, very little by private industry, is the absolute wellspring of economic might. But that's so fundamental it's of a different nature than the three things I listed above.

328 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:46:07pm

re: #325 Obdicut

Nicely done Obdi.

Even a child or a PaulBot should now understand the ramifications.

329 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:52:38pm

re: #327 Obdicut

I should append it and say that underlying all our economic power is technology, is science. Basic science, as done at government labs and state schools, and very, very little by private industry, is the absolute wellspring of economic might. But that's so fundamental it's of a different nature than the three things I listed above.

Private industry is all about practical science, they would never fund theoretical/basic science. The whole idea of government funding research is to create an influence free zone where conclusions are based on the data and not determined by who is behind the funding.

330 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:54:55pm

re: #325 Obdicut

I don't see that as tied to disparity, though. If everyone gets richer, how much does it matter if the guy at the top get richer faster?

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:56:31pm

I almost hate to say this, but the median intelligence level of this forum has increased mightily since the Great Creationist Flouncing.

332 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 6:58:20pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

I almost hate to say this, but the median intelligence level of this forum has increased mightily since the Great Creationist Flouncing.

I suspect the mean has as well.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:00:00pm

re: #332 b_sharp

I suspect the mean has as well.

Hey! We're not a mean bunch!///

334 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:01:45pm

re: #332 b_sharp

I suspect the mean has as well.

See, that's why I said "I almost hate to say this"...

Not for fear of hurting anyone's feelings, but knowing full well that my intelligence level is the same it always has been. :[

335 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:02:31pm

re: #326 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm glad you had the patience to repeat this, as I missed it the first time around. Thanks. Favorited.

I read it out loud to my friends. Kudos Obdi. Favorited too, will use.

336 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:02:55pm

re: #334 Slumbering Behemoth

See, that's why I said "I almost hate to say this"...

Not for fear of hurting anyone's feelings, but knowing full well that my intelligence level is the same it always has been. :[

Just stay above the mean.

337 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:03:05pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

I almost hate to say this, but the median intelligence level of this forum has increased mightily since the Great Creationist Flouncing.

Indeed. Losing some of our conservative members hurt a bit (at least for me), but the Creationist were a drag on the blog. Sometimes I miss having them here to kick around, but LGF is better off without them.

338 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:04:06pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

Indeed. Losing some of our conservative members hurt a bit (at least for me), but the Creationist were a drag on the blog. Sometimes I miss having them here to kick around, but LGF is better off without them.

Indeed. I felt smarter back then. :(

339 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:06:34pm

re: #330 Dark_Falcon

I don't see that as tied to disparity, though. If everyone gets richer, how much does it matter if the guy at the top get richer faster?

First of all, everyone isn't getting richer, and that's one of the key parts of income disparity. Wages for most have stagnated, or shrunk. Income for the highest income earners has risen. So, what you're saying is a hypothetical not related to our situation.

What you're talking about is a situation where everyone is getting wealthier every year-- as in, everyone is able to buy more medical care than they could last year, more housing, more food-- but some people are getting much more wealthy every year. In that case, the problems are limited by scarcity; that could still be a problem if, for example, as in Japan, land and space were at a premium. Japan has a much lower income disparity than we do. If they had a much higher one, then even in boom times where everyone was profiting hugely, those whose incomes were rising at a faster rate could afford to pay higher prices for the larger pieces of land.

So, when you have a scarcity-- be it land, medical care, or access to politicians-- then income disparity is always going to make that scarcity worse. In Japan, a higher income disparity would mean that the ordinary workers, even if their incomes increased year by year, would be able to afford smaller apartments, since that good would be more and more consumed by those at the higher end of the income scale.

If there are no scarcities, there are no problems with income disparity. When we reach a post-scarcity society, let me know, I'll throw a party.

340 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:08:33pm

re: #330 Dark_Falcon

I don't see that as tied to disparity, though. If everyone gets richer, how much does it matter if the guy at the top get richer faster?

Obdi will respond better, but basically, the fuel of the economy, the purchasers are NOT getting wealthy. Their disposable income is used used used to pay the bills. Their income has not kept pace. And I hear today how some state going to 8.00/hr minimum wage is gonna kill the job creators. What do they want? 5.00/hr?

Gah

341 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:15:33pm

re: #339 Obdicut

Even so, it's not really a solvable problem. Firms have little incentive to share profits these days. Many companies are themselves owned by institutional investors who are mainly focused on high returns for themselves. I grant sharing would equal greater potential future returns, but it is short-term results that are incentivized.

342 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 7:53:58pm

re: #325 Obdicut

Wow, that was a great explanation. I think this is the first time I've ever clearly understood how our economy works. I feel smarter now, heh.

343 BishopX  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 8:23:09pm

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

There is a riduculously easy solution to the problem though. Increase the progressivity of the tax code. As long as the federal government is spending it's money in a way that doesn't overwhleming favor the rich, goverment spending will reduce the income desparity.

344 mikec6666  Sun, Jan 1, 2012 9:26:35pm

Jake tapper is getting hammered in his comments on his blog post about the interview.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/ron-paul-calls-911-conspiracy-charge-nonsense/

I guess the Paul supporters aren't liking the treatment he's getting.

345 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 2:09:48am

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

Even so, it's not really a solvable problem.

Sure it is. Other countries manage it. Pretending otherwise is silly.

And increasing the progressive tax code is a perfectly good way of doing it.

346 wheat-dogg  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:36:33am

re: #169 ProLifeLiberal

I'm coming in late to this thread. Does anyone in your dad's family have a history of mental illness? I don't mean Alzheimer's, but stuff like schizophrenia, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and so on. My ex had radical mood swings, tearing into me for some unperceived (to me) wrong I had done. No injuries or thrown objects, just a lot of verbal abuse. She's paranoid delusional, but as yet has been in treatment only for a short 72-hour stay, four years ago when we were together.

347 pietercleppe  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 12:55:35pm

@Charles Johnson: come on. It's only a crime in North Korea to be involved with bad company (which Ron Paul probably was on occasion, and yes, he made a mistake not checking those newsletters).

I'm still waiting for the very first criticism on the content of the policy ideas Ron Paul actually has expressed (other than just calling them "stupid"). Maybe it is because you would be struggling to find arguments in favour of bankrupting welfare and warfare activities of the state?

348 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 1:00:59pm

re: #347 pietercleppe

Are you in favor of businesses being able to ban people based on their race?

349 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 1:06:45pm

re: #347 pietercleppe

You think Iran doesn't pose a threat to our National Security?

350 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 1:41:45pm

No response from the Paulbot.

351 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 1:47:41pm

re: #347 pietercleppe

@Charles Johnson: come on. It's only a crime in North Korea to be involved with bad company (which Ron Paul probably was on occasion, and yes, he made a mistake not checking those newsletters).

Far be it from me to point out that not wanting Ron Paul to hold office is entirely different kettle of fish than wanting him imprisoned....

352 pietercleppe  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:44:04pm

re: #348 Obdicut

Are you in favor of businesses being able to ban people based on their race?

Supporters of free speech end up defending people's rights to say stupid and nasty things. At least Voltaire is with Ron Paul, as he said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

When will you understand Ron Paul thinks it's disgraceful to be racist, but thinks, as any good libertarian, it shouldn't be illegal? A lot of well-intended legislation to combat racism (as for example affirmative action laws) ends up having to define elements of "good" racism: when it attempts to support minorities, etc.

Or do you believe any evil in society should be rooted out through state violence? Are you not able to see you're in good company then with the theocratic fascists LGF regularly attacks?

353 pietercleppe  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:47:20pm

re: #349 NJDhockeyfan

You think Iran doesn't pose a threat to our National Security?

Maybe, but stating that defence should be focused on defence (and not attack) can only be a healthy attitude, or not? Probably Pakistan and North Korea are threats to American national security, and surely China is. Who would advocate threatening China with war to deal with this? Trade will do just fine, also with Iran.

354 pietercleppe  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:51:09pm

re: #351 The Ghost of a Flea

Far be it from me to point out that not wanting Ron Paul to hold office is entirely different kettle of fish than wanting him imprisoned...

Ok, fair point, but it just strikes me the arguments against Ron Paul mainly deal with his associations rather than with his message.

355 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:52:58pm

re: #354 pietercleppe

Ok, fair point, but it just strikes me the arguments against Ron Paul mainly deal with his associations rather than with his message.

Ending the Fed and/or giving control of the money supply to Congress would be a disaster.

356 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:55:27pm

re: #352 pietercleppe

When will you understand Ron Paul thinks it's disgraceful to be racist, but thinks, as any good libertarian, it shouldn't be illegal?

If he thinks it's disgraceful to be racist, why did he publish and profit to the tune of millions from a racist newsletter? Why did he use the mailing list of an anti-Semitic journal for fund-raising?

A lot of well-intended legislation to combat racism (as for example affirmative action laws) ends up having to define elements of "good" racism: when it attempts to support minorities, etc.

Has nothing to do with what I asked you.

Or do you believe any evil in society should be rooted out through state violence?

Nope. Just some of them.

Are you not able to see you're in good company then with the theocratic fascists LGF regularly attacks?

No, I'm not. You're conflating the use of law to do anything to promote equal treatment with theocratic fascism. That's fucking stupid.

Again: Do you support the right of a business to ban black people if they want to? Or to not hire them? Or apartment buildings to not rent to them?

Try answering the question rather than dodging and squirming.

357 jaunte  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:57:14pm

re: #354 pietercleppe

People also argue with the stupid things he says, for instance, on sexual harassment in the workplace, “Why don’t they quit once the so-called harassment starts?"

358 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 4:06:59pm

I love the 'state violence' meme from Paulians. It's such a twerpish, trying-to-win-through-semantics way to make their arguments.

This is state violence:

Image: littlerock.jpg

Scary!

In the end, anything that is criminalized can be said to be 'state violence'. I have no idea why Paulians are so in love with the phrase.

359 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:38:01pm

re: #357 jaunte

re: #358 Obdicut

re: #355 wrenchwench

I guess we scared him off!

At least this guy, like his long-time hero Ron Paul, is consistent.

332 pietercleppe 10/11/2007 2:52:15 am PDT

When will you finally use arguments to criticise Ron Paul? You could do better then this post, I think.

Apart from that, even from a libertarian stanpoint, he's probably not perfect, but it is not true to say that he is a conspiracy theorist, because he suggests that the US shouldn't support KSA and Pakistan, because these states were really behind 9-11.

This is a Republican site, right? Low taxes, spending cuts, individual freedoms, anybody?

If you go to that comment in the link, you'll see he has a blog link in his nic. He's an international Paulbot.

360 budda10000  Mon, Jan 2, 2012 8:08:48pm

That was a classic question dodge. Paul may be strange in politics but I doubt he follows the kooky truther movement. Unfortunately the kooky truthers/conspiracy crowd are hardcore supporters of Paul as are White Nationalists so he has to try his best to placate them without appearing to be one of them... Pat Buchanan treads a similar path and is labeled anti-semitic yet had had personal jewish friends and associates rebuke these allegations so unless those are some kind of anti-jew jews I am inclined to believe them. You see the very same behavior when far left mainstream politicians are confronted with the antics of the more extreme elements of OWS. Otherwise we could be led to think some DC dems have sympathies with CPUSA and kids who shit on cop cars which is HIGHLY unlikely. Its just politics...

361 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:19:07am

re: #360 budda10000

Why ignore that he's also said truthery-things, rather than just dodge questions?

And Pat Buchanan-- seriously, you're trying to say if someone has friends of a race, they can't be bigots towards that race? Seriously?

362 pietercleppe  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 6:02:34am

re: #355 wrenchwench

Ending the Fed and/or giving control of the money supply to Congress would be a disaster.

You really don't know Ron Paul very well, I'm afraid. If you would, you'd see there's more to politics than the partisan circus. Libertarians don't think the state or congress should control money. The current financial crisis is a vindication of their theory that state intervention tends to become abusive, also when the state is only supposed to "manage" money in a fairly minimal way (which is why they get hysteric about seemingly small state interventions and warn for a "slippery slope". They've been vindicated time and again).

Newsflash (for you): not all state spending is financed through taxation or even borrowing. A lot of it is financed through the printing press, and more precisely, through the artificially big growth (or artificially small shrinking) of the monetary base. As a result, savings are being debased, investment bubbles and busts emerge (internet, real estate), while smart investors profit.

363 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:38:47am

re: #362 pietercleppe

Money doesn't exist without the state. Even if it's backed by private banks, it exists due to the government's upholding of contract law.

Money is an aspect of government.

And you failed to answer.

364 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:34:52am

re: #362 pietercleppe

Newsflash (for you): not all state spending is financed through taxation or even borrowing. A lot of it is financed through the printing press, and more precisely, through the artificially big growth (or artificially small shrinking) of the monetary base.

Not news to me. The fact that Europeans can't do the same thing may be contributing to the demise of the Euro as a currency. Sucks for them.

You really don't know Ron Paul very well, I'm afraid. If you would, you'd see there's more to politics than the partisan circus. Libertarians don't think the state or congress should control money

And if you think Paul follows "what Libertarians think", you don't know him very well.

365 pietercleppe  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:36:04am

re: #363 Obdicut

Money doesn't exist without the state. Even if it's backed by private banks, it exists due to the government's upholding of contract law.

Money is an aspect of government.

And you failed to answer.

It's not because the government is in the business of upholding contracts that it suddenly becomes an aspect of government. That would make everything an aspect of government, but this is semantics.

I answered your question: one can be vehemently against racism (which I am) and still not in favour of banning it, just as one doesn't want to ban stupidity.

366 pietercleppe  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:44:38am

re: #364 wrenchwench

Not news to me. The fact that Europeans can't do the same thing may be contributing to the demise of the Euro as a currency. Sucks for them.

And if you think Paul follows "what Libertarians think", you don't know him very well.

European states have been financed through their central banks as well (only Zimbabwe, Ecuador, Montenegro must be completely free of that issue, given the abolishment of their currencies). The fact that the ECB has certain constraints doesn't change that it has been too expansive and is becoming ever more expansive.

Some libertarians indeed don't support Paul, and probably no-one agrees for 100 percent with everything he says, but I'd be curious to hear examples of where he doesn't represent orthodox libertarian theory. Immigration, maybe (long discussion...), but that's about it.

367 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:45:41am

re: #365 pietercleppe

It's not because the government is in the business of upholding contracts that it suddenly becomes an aspect of government. That would make everything an aspect of government, but this is semantics.

No, it wouldn't. Money can only exist when there is something to mandate it. Even if you're using gold, you have government involved.

Prove me otherwise: Show me a currency that'd not dependent on government.

And if you say bitcoins I will laugh so hard.

I answered your question: one can be vehemently against racism (which I am) and still not in favour of banning it, just as one doesn't want to ban stupidity.

Come on, don't be a wimp. Say what you mean. You're in favor of a business's right to ban black people if they want to, right? And to refuse to hire them, right?

368 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:46:15am

re: #366 pietercleppe

How Libertarian is Paul's support for a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion?


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