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976 comments
1 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:18:56pm

Whhheeee….

We’ve got 10 more months of this!

2 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:19:02pm

Homophobia without the legal pot may just pull it out.

3 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:19:25pm

re: #1 freetoken

Whhheee…

We’ve got 10 more months of this!

10 MORE MONTHS! 10 MORE MONTHS!

4 neilk  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:22:19pm

Ron Paul does not want to legalize pot. He does not want the federal government to ban pot, but the federal pot law affects virtually no one. Paul is perfectly OK with state drug laws. The best you can say is that he thinks a war on drugs is a bad priority, but even then, he’s talking about federal policy.

5 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:22:48pm

It must be cool to have your state matter in primary season.

I get why this system can persist and survive, but I will never understand how anybody accepted it in the first place.

6 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:23:01pm

Paul wins, then Iowa gets dubbed “irrelevant” while the GOP leadership bugs out.

Santorum wins, then it gets compared to Huck’s win in ‘08, which ultimately led to nowhere.

And if Romney wins, then he gets dubbed the hair…er, heir apparent and his slow march to the nomination is considered to have begun.

7 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:23:35pm

Backstroke of the North East!

8 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:23:37pm

That CNN page with the purported real time results is somewhat misleading. They report “49% reporting” but that is not the share of the total number of caucus voters in Iowa tonight.

Last time the IA caucuses attracted something like 120,000 attendees, and so far the votes on the CNN site only add up to around 55,000. Assuming tonight’s turnout is bigger than last time (the weather is relatively pleasant in Iowa tonight), there are a lot of uncounted votes still to come.

And, the “uncommitted” vote is not being reported.

9 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:23:48pm

re: #4 neilk

Ron Paul does not want to legalize pot. He does not want the federal government to ban pot, but the federal pot law affects virtually no one. Paul is perfectly OK with state drug laws. The best you can say is that he thinks a war on drugs is a bad priority, but even then, he’s talking about federal policy.

Good point.

10 JAFO  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:24:00pm

re: #5 erik_t

It was a much different world 200 years ago.

11 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:24:24pm

All this excitement over what’s basically another straw poll. It won’t result in any delegates, it just shows who’s favored in Iowa right now.

Dunno who’ll win tonight though it’s obviously going to be close. I really don’t think it’ll matter.

New Hampshire is so obviously Romney’s that nobody’s really challenging him there.

The real entertainment will be South Carolina. And if Romney doesn’t get at least a strong second there, Florida. At that point we’ll know for sure: was it all hype with Romney the certain, or are we actually going to be watching a horse race.

This? side show.

12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:24:55pm

re: #6 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Paul wins, then Iowa gets dubbed “irrelevant” while the GOP leadership bugs out.

Santorum wins, then it gets compared to Huck’s win in ‘08, which ultimately led to nowhere.

And if Romney wins, then he gets dubbed the hair…er, heir apparent and his slow march to the nomination is considered to have begun.

TBH, I do hope so. Would be nice to have an actual contest instead of Obama vs Kranky the Klown #1 or Kranky the Klown #2.

13 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:25:12pm

re: #4 neilk

Ron Paul does not want to legalize pot. He does not want the federal government to ban pot, but the federal pot law affects virtually no one. Paul is perfectly OK with state drug laws. The best you can say is that he thinks a war on drugs is a bad priority, but even then, he’s talking about federal policy.

This cannot be said enough. Ron Paul does not object to discrimination and restrictions on individual rights if states do it or if businesses do it or if individuals to, he only objects to the federal government doing it. He’s a neo-Confederate states rights nut.

14 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:25:58pm

re: #11 kirkspencer

All this excitement over what’s basically another straw poll. It won’t result in any delegates, it just shows who’s favored in Iowa right now.

Dunno who’ll win tonight though it’s obviously going to be close. I really don’t think it’ll matter.

New Hampshire is so obviously Romney’s that nobody’s really challenging him there.

The real entertainment will be South Carolina. And if Romney doesn’t get at least a strong second there, Florida. At that point we’ll know for sure: was it all hype with Romney the certain, or are we actually going to be watching a horse race.

This? side show.

It has winnowed the field, however. Perry and Bachmann are dead, and Gingrich is on life support.

15 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:26:32pm

re: #13 moderatelyradicalliberal

This cannot be said enough. Ron Paul does not object to discrimination and restrictions on individual rights if states do it or if businesses do it or if individuals to, he only objects to the federal government doing it. He’s a neo-Confederate states rights nut.

Yep. So true.

16 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:27:07pm

re: #13 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s good to clarify that; he’s benefiting from obscuring the point.

17 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:27:32pm

C-Span reports there is an open bar at Newt HQ. What are we even doing posting here

18 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:27:41pm

re: #13 moderatelyradicalliberal

This cannot be said enough. Ron Paul does not object to discrimination and restrictions on individual rights if states do it or if businesses do it or if individuals to, he only objects to the federal government doing it. He’s a neo-Confederate states rights nut.

Paul’s a believer in allowing states and individuals to trample all over the rights of others, but is willing to let the Feds do the trampling if it’s in the name of “morality,” such as a federal ban on abortion.

19 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:28:15pm

re: #18 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Paul’s a believer in allowing states and individuals to trample all over the rights of others, but is willing to let the Feds do the trampling if it’s in the name of “morality,” such as a federal ban on abortion.

He sponsors the federal life amendment at the start of every congress right? No true libertarian should like Ron Paul.

20 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:28:21pm

re: #12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

TBH, I do hope so. Would be nice to have an actual contest instead of Obama vs Kranky the Klown #1 or Kranky the Klown #2.

The current GOP base doesn’t deserve to bring forth a candidate who can actually contest Obama.

Or in other words…

WE WANT KRANKY!

21 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:28:55pm

re: #17 SpaceJesus

C-Span reports there is an open bar at Newt HQ. What are we even doing posting here

“My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.”

22 neilk  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:29:40pm

re: #18 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He hasn’t been totally consistent on that point. He’s voted for federal abortion restrictions “to counteract Roe vs. Wade” which he presumably believes improperly restricts states from banning abortion. He has also said the federal government should have nothing to do with abortion, which is consistent both with his “states’ rights” belief and his clear belief that abortion should be banned.

23 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:29:48pm

Romney should never have said he expected to win Iowa.

And, I wonder now that it is clear that neither the “base” (religious right) nor the wild-eyed/independents support him, what Romney will do. Will he even try to tack more to the “right”, changing even more of his opinions? Does he start to trash the First Lady?

Sure, I expect the NH Republicans to vote for Romney just to spite everyone else (including IA), but in South Carolina Romney is weak, and then in Florida the religious right will rally around Santorum.

Mitt won’t ever be able to admit in public that he is running for the nomination of a party that on the whole doesn’t really want him, but in private I wonder what he says?

24 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:30:35pm

re: #21 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I want to see a drunk Newt start talking about the constitusshhun

25 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:30:47pm

Nate Silver: Paul Could Gain from College Counties

…some of his strongest areas, college towns, have been slow to report results. Story County, where Iowa State University is located, has had none of its 43 precincts report. And only 22 of 57 precincts have reported in Johnson County, home to the University of Iowa. (Mr. Paul has 36 percent of the votes there so far.)

26 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:30:50pm

re: #21 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

“My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.”

You should listen to him; he’s a disgraced House Speaker from twenty years ago.

27 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:32:43pm

re: #23 freetoken

Romney should never have said he expected to win Iowa.

And, I wonder now that it is clear that neither the “base” (religious right) nor the wild-eyed/independents support him, what Romney will do. Will he even try to tack more to the “right”, changing even more of his opinions? Does he start to trash the First Lady?

Sure, I expect the NH Republicans to vote for Romney just to spite everyone else (including IA), but in South Carolina Romney is weak, and then in Florida the religious right will rally around Santorum.

Mitt won’t ever be able to admit in public that he is running for the nomination of a party that on the whole doesn’t really want him, but in private I wonder what he says?

I agree that it seems like it was a tactical mistake. He was best off with lower expectations so if he won he could trumpet that fact and if he didn’t it wouldn’t be a surprise. If he somehow finishes in 3rd, it could hurt him a bit, at least in the short term.

28 Stanghazi  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:32:53pm

re: #20 jamesfirecat

The current GOP base doesn’t deserve to bring forth a candidate who can actually contest Obama.

Or in other words…

WE WANT KRANKY!

A meme is born. KRANKY 2012. Why not?

29 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:32:58pm

Fox news is still following the ghost of Herman Cain:
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

30 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:34:14pm

re: #16 jaunte

It’s good to clarify that; he’s benefiting from obscuring the point.

An obfuscation that he gets away with because his supporters on the left and right are stupid. Ron Paul would be perfectly fine with states resegregating schools or banning narcotics. He would be fine with businesses not hiring people based on race or an individual not renting a property to people because they are gay. What he doesn’t want is for the feds to regulate intestate commerce (which they have a constitutional right to do) or protect people from discrimination based on the 14th Amendment. For Paul there is only one bully, the federal government. All of the other entities that can and do bully people should be free to do so. When states, business and individuals do it, it’s not bullying, it’s freedom and liberty. His supporters don’t see it because their too busy listening to nonsense about pot and no more wars.

31 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:34:54pm

re: #23 freetoken

Romney should never have said he expected to win Iowa.

And, I wonder now that it is clear that neither the “base” (religious right) nor the wild-eyed/independents support him, what Romney will do. Will he even try to tack more to the “right”, changing even more of his opinions? Does he start to trash the First Lady?

Sure, I expect the NH Republicans to vote for Romney just to spite everyone else (including IA), but in South Carolina Romney is weak, and then in Florida the religious right will rally around Santorum.

Mitt won’t ever be able to admit in public that he is running for the nomination of a party that on the whole doesn’t really want him, but in private I wonder what he says?

Everything is going perfectly for Romney. Paul and Santorum can’t win the nomination. Perry is finished. The polling in SC and Florida showed him second to Gingrich in mid-December during the Gingrich surge. That’s over now, and Romney’s support there is probably increasing. Polls actually show that Romney is viewed favorably by most Republicans, just not that intensely. Romney is going to be the nominee.

32 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:36:13pm

re: #20 jamesfirecat

Oh I don’t think so. I think Romney or Newt could. There are enough GOP who are stupid enough to vote them in, especially if the left-confederate Primary Obamas stay home.

The others, I don’t think so.

33 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:36:18pm

re: #25 jaunte

In a related bit:

Ron Paul and Mitt Romney: 2012 vs. 2008 in Iowa

Results for the Iowa caucuses are coming down to the wire with Mitt Romney, Ron Paul and Rick Santorum battling for the top spot. The repeat contenders, Paul and Romney have seen some big shifts, but also eerie consistency.

Preliminary entrance poll results show Paul increasing his share of the vote dramatically across most groups, but two groups stand out — young voters and independents. Paul wins a double bonus; he garners a greater share of votes in these groups and more of them are turning out compared with 2008.

The biggest improvement for Paul is among young voters. He is now winning about half of voters under age 30, up from about one in five in his last effort. Although still a relatively small proportion of all caucus-goers (11 percent in 2008), young voters have increased their share of the electorate.

Paul has made big strides among independent voters too. More than four in 10 independent voters support him, up from three in 10 in 2008. And almost a quarter of voters identify as independents this year — nearly doubling their share of the 2008 electorate.

For Romney, his support levels have changed very slightly since 2008. He can point to a few improvements but he also has a few places where he’s slipped. Notably, he’s not budged among Republican voters. He has seen a drop among the most conservative voters, down about 10 percentage points. But he’s made up for it with increased support among more moderate voters.

In 2008, Romney’s support was consistent across age groups. This time, Romney’s support skews older with more than double the support among seniors as among those under age 30.

The ace up Romney’s sleeve this year is his perceived electability. About three in 10 Iowa voters say beating President Obama is the most important candidate quality. Romney wins roughly half of these voters, dwarfing the other candidates.This was Romney’s strong suit in 2008 as well — he won 51 percent of the vote in this group — but electability was a much lower priority for caucus-goers at that time. Just 7 percent said the most important personal quality was someone who “has the best chance to win.”

These are preliminary results from the Republican caucus poll of voters as they entered 40 randomly selected caucus voting places in Iowa on Jan. 3, 2012. The poll was conducted by Edison Media Research for National Election Pool, The Washington Post and other media organizations. The results for typical characteristics have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus four percentage points.

If it weren’t for Paul then the GOP would not attract young people.

To all you GOP supporters out there (that’s you, DF), admit this - Ron Paul is your only outreach to young people.

Ron Paul, king of conspiracy - that’s the GOP strategy for the next generation.

34 RanchTooth  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:37:14pm

The following is an actual tweet:

@BuddyRoemer
Gov. Buddy Roemer
Hermain Cain is currently beating me in Iowa. #seriously

35 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:37:28pm

re: #31 aagcobb

Romney is going to be the nominee.

That’s not his problem though.

Romney’s problem will be turning out the vote in the general election.

36 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:37:57pm

re: #33 freetoken

He is now winning about half of voters under age 30

I wonder what fraction of that are people with a misconception of his ideas about drug law enforcement.

37 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:38:14pm

re: #35 freetoken

That’s not his problem though.

Romney’s problem will be turning out the vote in the general election.

Yep. And he will struggle with that.

38 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:38:33pm

re: #35 freetoken

That’s not his problem though.

Romney’s problem will be turning out the vote in the general election.

They will turn out because they hate Obama, and as I said, they like Romney OK.

39 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:38:33pm

re: #31 aagcobb

Everything is going perfectly for Romney. Paul and Santorum can’t win the nomination. Perry is finished. The polling in SC and Florida showed him second to Gingrich in mid-December during the Gingrich surge. That’s over now, and Romney’s support there is probably increasing. Polls actually show that Romney is viewed favorably by most Republicans, just not that intensely. Romney is going to be the nominee.

He’ll be the nominee, but that intensity thing kinda matters. Superpacs don’t knock on doors, register voters, make phone calls or organize a ground game to GOTV. Volunteers to that, and people who work for free need intensity for their candidate.

40 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:39:10pm

re: #37 HappyWarrior

Yep. And he will struggle with that.

Because no one will believe he is sincere about anything, or has any value other than being the candidate of the good ol’ boy country club Republicans.

41 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:39:12pm

re: #39 moderatelyradicalliberal

He’ll be the nominee, but that intensity thing kinda matters. Superpacs don’t knock on doors, register voters, make phone calls or organize a ground game to GOTV. Volunteers to that, and people who work for free need intensity for their candidate.

Shit, the man could probably be defeated by a rainstorm.

42 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:39:27pm

re: #38 aagcobb

They will turn out because they hate Obama, and as I said, they like Romney OK.

Yeah, I think the hating Obama will help the turnout some. It seems much stronger than the anti-Bush feeling of 2004, but maybe that’s just me being on the opposite side of things.

43 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:39:41pm

re: #39 moderatelyradicalliberal

He’ll be the nominee, but that intensity thing kinda matters. Superpacs don’t knock on doors, register voters, make phone calls or organize a ground game to GOTV. Volunteers to that, and people who work for free need intensity for their candidate.

The intensity will come from their Obama hatred.

44 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:40:33pm

re: #40 freetoken

Because no one will believe he is sincere about anything, or has any value other than being the candidate of the good ol’ boy country club Republicans.

And evangelical leaders are not going to admit to their constituents that Mormons are people

Obama wins handily

45 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:40:36pm

re: #38 aagcobb

They will turn out because they hate Obama, and as I said, they like Romney OK.

They hated Obama and liked McCain OK in 2008. Same for Clinton in 1996. Democrats hated Bush and liked Kerry OK in 2004. See a pattern?

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:41:14pm

re: #43 aagcobb

The intensity will come from their Obama hatred.

This assumes that extremist Christians are totally okay with a Mormon president!

47 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:41:26pm

re: #45 moderatelyradicalliberal

They hated Obama and liked McCain OK in 2008. Same for Clinton in 1996. Democrats hated Bush and liked Kerry OK in 2004. See a pattern?

Yep. Hating the opponent will only get you so far.Anyone But Bush was such a stupid strategy by hte Dem activists in 2004. I know Kerry wasn’t great but damnit.

48 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:41:46pm

re: #46 WindUpBird

This assumes that extremist Christians are totally okay with a Mormon president!

Remember, they think Obama is a mooslum.

49 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:42:23pm

re: #48 aagcobb

Remember, they think Obama is a mooslum.

Well, he’s definitely black, so he’s already Curse Of Ham Antichrist Heretic to these wackos ;-)

50 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:42:30pm

re: #48 aagcobb

Remember, they think Obama is a mooslum.

And a lot of them think Mormons are cultists. That’s worth pointing out.

51 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:42:34pm

re: #43 aagcobb

The intensity will come from their Obama hatred.

Like their Clinton hatred in 1996? Hatred of a Democratic president isn’t some new thing for Republicans. It’s a feature not a bug.

52 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:42:55pm

Also, am I the only one that finds it odd that Fox News picked the colour brown for Santorum?

53 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:43:30pm

re: #45 moderatelyradicalliberal

They hated Obama and liked McCain OK in 2008. Same for Clinton in 1996. Democrats hated Bush and liked Kerry OK in 2004. See a pattern?

The GOP will have intense activism. Whether they win the election or not will depend a lot on whether voters feel like the economy is improving enough to warrant a second term for Obama. If they don’t, they’ll give Romney the chance to fix it.

54 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:43:34pm

re: #52 Simply Sarah

Also, am I the only one that finds it odd that Fox News picked the colour brown for Santorum?

O RLY?

55 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:43:47pm

re: #52 Simply Sarah

Also, am I the only one that finds it odd that Fox News picked the colour brown for Santorum?

LOL! How subversive.

56 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:43:54pm

re: #52 Simply Sarah

Graphic designers tend to be jokers all across the political spectrum.

57 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:45:02pm

re: #51 moderatelyradicalliberal

Like their Clinton hatred in 1996? Hatred of a Democratic president isn’t some new thing for Republicans. It’s a feature not a bug.

They lost the election in 1996 because the economy was strong. If job growth doesn’t improve this year, Obama is likely to be a one term president.

58 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:45:19pm

Since I don’t want any of these GOP wanna-be Presidents to be elected it’s all and good for me if they devour each other and end up apathetic over the heir-apparent.

Yet part of me still wants to believe that national campaigns should mean something, and that Presidents when elected ought to have been put there for at least one good reason.

59 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:46:12pm

re: #57 aagcobb

They lost the election in 1996 because the economy was strong. If job growth doesn’t improve this year, Obama is likely to be a one term president.

Basically every poll ever disagrees, but whatever. You sound like you have your mind made up already.

60 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:46:14pm

I also notice Fox News seems to be rounding all percentages up, so even if it’s 25.0001%, it’s 26%.

61 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:48:17pm

Woah, Rick Perry won 2 Taylor and Union Counties so far…

62 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:48:26pm

re: #59 erik_t

Basically every poll ever disagrees, but whatever. You sound like you have your mind made up already.

I support Obama, and I will vote for him. I just am not going to try to fool myself into thinking this is going to be an easy win if the unemployment rate is still well over 8% and the economy isn’t creating jobs. The GOP is very motivated to make Obama a one term president.

63 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:49:35pm

Roemer at least seems to be having fun on his Twitter account. I suppose there’s not much else to do right now.

64 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:49:57pm

The NY Times is showing Romney in the lead with 79% reporting. Its close, but I think Mittens is going to win Iowa.

65 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:50:04pm

re: #63 Simply Sarah

Roemer at least seems to be having fun on his Twitter account. I suppose there’s not much else to do right now.

Other than cry…

66 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:50:47pm

NBC News now projecting Ron Paul to come in THIRD.

67 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:51:35pm

re: #66 Charles

NBC News now projecting Ron Paul to come in THIRD.

Yeah, that seems about right. He’s fallen a bit behind and there aren’t that many votes left to count. Still too close to call between Mitt and Rick, though.

68 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:51:44pm

re: #66 Charles

NBC News now projecting Ron Paul to come in THIRD.

The Joos stolz it!!!1ty

69 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:52:19pm

re: #64 aagcobb

The NY Times is showing Romney in the lead with 79% reporting. Its close, but I think Mittens is going to win Iowa.

A close win won’t do him much good. It’ll be written not as a mandate, but rather as proof that voters are still not sold on him, with his victory likely being chalked up to simply having a more expansive and better organized ground team.

70 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:52:31pm

re: #66 Charles

NBC News now projecting Ron Paul to come in THIRD.

It’s still much higher than he placed last time, IIRC…that’s what’s scary.

71 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:52:43pm

re: #66 Charles

CNN shows with 88% reporting that Paul is indeed in third.

Santorum comes off the winner tonight (even if he finishes second.) Will it turn into something that he can ride into SC and FL?

72 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:53:07pm

re: #66 Charles

NBC News now projecting Ron Paul to come in THIRD.

Is it too early to pop the cork on the schadenfreude?

73 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:53:27pm

Since the Iowa caucus is like really important, if these three anti-gay/civil right wieners finish in a three way, do they do a recount? Supreme Court intervention?

74 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:53:34pm

re: #66 Charles

NBC News now projecting Ron Paul to come in THIRD.

The only real hope for Ron Paul is Story County. But it does look like Ron Paul will finish behind Romney and Santorum, which is good news for Romney. A loss is bad for Romney, Getting a lower percentage of votes than 2008 is bad for romney, but it’s not the disaster a third place finish would be.

75 EdDantes  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:54:03pm

re: #62 aagcobb

There is a precedent. FDR was re-elected with a horrible economy. Luckily for him his opponent was Alf Landon: an indifferent campaigner and an admirer of FDR and the New Deal.

76 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:54:25pm

re: #69 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A close win won’t do him much good. It’ll be written not as a mandate, but rather as proof that voters are still not sold on him, with his victory likely being chalked up to simply having a more expansive and better organized ground team.

He didn’t even need to win it. he just needed Gingrich and Perry to lose it, and they did. He put much less effort into Iowa than he did in 2008, and got about the same result. Don’t kid yourself, this is a win for Romney, whether Santorum beats him by a few dozen votes or not.

77 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:55:10pm

re: #71 freetoken

CNN shows with 88% reporting that Paul is indeed in third.

Santorum comes off the winner tonight (even if he finishes second.) Will it turn into something that he can ride into SC and FL?

Santorum despite his “Google problem” is the obvious heir to the Not Romney vote compared to all the other candidates who have crippling flaws.

If he hangs on he might get Perry and Bachman’s votes…

78 Moodsman  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:55:49pm

This is fun and entertaining, but it is more of an elimination round than a winner round.
It’s not who wins tonight, but who loses, since being on the bottom tonight really limits the ability to fund raise and have credibility in the next races.

Bachman is done. She is out in 2 more elections.
Perry is pretty much gone. Also gone in 2 more elections (and done as far as Texas politics also)
Gingrich is shown to lack credibility and strength… give him 5 more elections before he quits.

I believe Huntsman is a wild card. He could have a good showing in New Hampshire and start to pick up some speed. Gone in 10, but VP selectee by Romney.

79 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:56:28pm

re: #77 jamesfirecat

Santorum despite his “Google problem” is the obvious heir to the Not Romney vote compared to all the other candidates who have crippling flaws.

If he hangs on he might get Perry and Bachman’s votes…

Romney has the money, the organization and the endorsements. Santorum has nothing outside Iowa. How well did that work out for Huckabee in ‘08?

80 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:56:31pm

re: #76 aagcobb

He didn’t even need to win it. he just needed Gingrich and Perry to lose it, and they did. He put much less effort into Iowa than he did in 2008, and got about the same result. Don’t kid yourself, this is a win for Romney, whether Santorum beats him by a few dozen votes or not.

I doubt we’ll see Gingrich or Perry drop out after tonight. Bachmann’s a definite possibility, but Perry will probably try to hold onto at least until Super Tuesday.

81 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:56:46pm

re: #57 aagcobb

They lost the election in 1996 because the economy was strong. If job growth doesn’t improve this year, Obama is likely to be a one term president.

You didn’t disprove my argument, you actually helped. You said that hatred was enough to motivate GOP voters, not the economy. Republicans hated Clinton with a passion and the economy being good or bad had nothing to do with that hatred. Those candidates won because the white hot intensity of the hatred that the other side felt for them wasn’t enough. Even if Obama loses it will be because of the economy and losing independents not the GOP’s hatred being strong enough.

82 Robert O.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:56:57pm

Even though the Santorum surge was real (as indicated by polls), I certainly did NOT see him winning tonight. (i) I didn’t think he had enough time for his numbers to peak, and (ii) as national candidate he is even LESS credible than the weak GOPers out there, save perhaps Paul and Bachmann (and Cain who is already out).

83 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:58:06pm

re: #79 aagcobb

Romney has the money, the organization and the endorsements. Santorum has nothing outside Iowa. How well did that work out for Huckabee in ‘08?

To me the Santorum surge will not be caused by him doing anything great, but simply by people desperate not to vote for Romney, and no amount of money Mittens spends will change that.

84 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:58:50pm

re: #82 Robert O.

Even though the Santorum surge was real (as indicated by polls), I certainly did NOT see him winning tonight. (i) I didn’t think he had enough time for his numbers to peak, and (ii) as national candidate he is even LESS credible than the weak GOPers out there, save perhaps Paul and Bachmann (and Cain who is already out).

That’s the crazy Iowa evangelicals for you. Santorum is the most theocratic candidate in the race, so he got their vote.

85 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 7:59:51pm

It’s interesting to point out glancing at an interactive map county by county (go to New York Times home page), that in the counties with the big cities, Romney always comes out on top, while in the more rural areas it’s Santorum.

86 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:00:11pm

re: #85 tacuba14

It’s interesting to point out glancing at an interactive map county by county (go to New York Times home page), that in the counties with the big cities, Romney always comes out on top, while in the more rural areas it’s Santorum.

That doesn’t surprise me.

87 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:00:25pm

re: #84 aagcobb

Tonight proves there is a massive sanity gap in the Republican Party.

88 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:00:41pm

re: #78 Moodsman

I believe Huntsman is a wild card. He could have a good showing in New Hampshire and start to pick up some speed. Gone in 10, but VP selectee by Romney.

A double Mormon ticket? Never. Not even Mittens wold be dumb enough to try that.

89 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:00:56pm

Looking at the county by county map, Romney did well in those counties which one expects Obama to win - the urban (well, for Iowa it’s “urban”) areas and old industry countries. Polk county (Des Moines, the capitol), Cedar Rapids, the Davenport area along the Mississippi, and the Iowa portion of the Omaha metropolitan area.

The hinterlands are pretty clearly Santorum county. Rural America doesn’t like the big city “liberal” Romney,

90 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:01:18pm

so it appears that as of now, Iowans of the GOP prefer a more theocratic-minded candidate, eh?

91 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:01:38pm

Figure that the Paulians will try to lick their wounds by going “Hey, at least he came in third!”

92 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:01:46pm

re: #84 aagcobb

That’s the crazy Iowa evangelicals for you. Santorum is the most theocratic candidate in the race, so he got their vote.

I think he will get their votes until Super Tuesday. If he comes in second he has no reason to drop out until then.

93 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:01:50pm

re: #83 jamesfirecat

To me the Santorum surge will not be caused by him doing anything great, but simply by people desperate not to vote for Romney, and no amount of money Mittens spends will change that.

I’ll post this poll again. Republicans like Romney, not intensely, and there is nothing left standing between him and the nomination. And I was someone who didn’t think he could win, but the dwarves arrayed against him are too flawed to stop him.

94 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:02:40pm

Randomly poking around Fox News some more (More interesting than waiting), I find that they already have gray, dithered images for all the candidates in place.

See: Romney has dropped out of the race!

95 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:13pm

Amazing, the NY Times shows that Santorum has a 13 vote lead over Romney.

96 Mark Winter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:44pm

In the end Romney will win that. What we can hope for is that the other stooges hurt him. LOTS.

Ron Paul can’t take New Hampshire which means that he’s looking downhill.

Santorum… well can we keep him around a bit for entertainment?

97 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:04:50pm

Just increased to a 19 vote lead.

98 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:05:16pm

Rand Paul looks like the creepy son who tortures cats in all those horror films.

99 RanchTooth  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:05:34pm

The real reason for the Santorum Surge:

Surge

Also… “Santorum Surge” brings vile images to mind. Why did the political establishment choose this word fully knowing that the Not-Romney campaign would eventually get to Señor Frothy?

100 EdDantes  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:05:48pm

re: #91 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Figure that the Paulians will try to lick their wounds by going “Hey, at least he came in third!”

That racist, anti-Semitic little troll should not be in the race.

101 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:06:02pm

re: #93 aagcobb

I’ll post this poll again. Republicans like Romney, not intensely, and there is nothing left standing between him and the nomination. And I was someone who didn’t think he could win, but the dwarves arrayed against him are too flawed to stop him.

I don’t think anyone is arguing with you about him winning the nomination. I figured he was always the nominee. I think some of us are taking issue with how strong you seem to think he will be as a general election candidate. He’s been running for president for 5 years and the best he can do is 24%. He’s under performing and a lackluster candidate.

102 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:06:19pm

re: #95 aagcobb

Amazing, the NY Times shows that Santorum has a 13 vote lead over Romney.

It’s really bizarre how these things can get so close right to the end of the line. I mean we’re talking 100,000 plus voters.

103 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:14pm

Romney’s in the lead now by about 200.

104 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:32pm

re: #99 RanchTooth

The real reason for the Santorum Surge:

Surge

Also… “Santorum Surge” brings vile images to mind. Why did the political establishment choose this word fully knowing that the Not-Romney campaign would eventually get to Señor Frothy?

That Santorum has got spunk!

105 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:47pm

re: #103 darthstar

Romney’s in the lead now by about 200.

Make that 125

106 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:07:56pm

re: #101 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don’t think anyone is arguing with you about him winning the nomination. I figured he was always the nominee. I think some of us are taking issue with how strong you seem to think he will be as a general election candidate. He’s been running for president for 5 years and the best he can do is 24%. He’s under performing and a lackluster candidate.

If Romney wasn’t Mormon he would have this thing in the bag, despite all of his flip-flop baggage.

107 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:08:27pm

Derp.

[Link: twitter.com…]

108 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:08:51pm

re: #96 Mark Winter

Santorum… well can we keep him around a bit for entertainment?

There’s no reason for Santorum to drop out at all. He can ride the Anybody-But-Romney movement all the way to the end, given that the religious right will most likely rally around him.

Even though he won’t get enough delegates to win, he can get enough to be a featured speaker at the convention and maybe even get the VP nod. Remember, 2016 is just around the corner, and Santorum and Huntsman both can look forward to that year as “their” year.

109 Simply Sarah  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:09:20pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Derp.

[Link: twitter.com…]

That shot is fantastic.

110 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:10:11pm

re: #106 tacuba14

If Romney wasn’t Mormon he would have this thing in the bag, despite all of his flip-flop baggage.

His being a Mormon is a huge problem, Nobody wants to address it even though questions about gender, religion and race where asked constantly during 2008. Whatever the reasons he’s a sub par front runner.

111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:10:17pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Derp.

[Link: twitter.com…]

Fukn con bigots.

112 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:10:29pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Derp.

[Link: twitter.com…]

That’s not a derp,

THIS IS A DERP!

113 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:10:31pm

In the meantime, Michigan - VT is tied at 17 with 10 minutes left in Regulation.

114 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:10:37pm

@Art_Guy1
Amazing that Ron Paul can remember Nixon quotes but not his newsletters.

115 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:11:16pm

re: #101 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don’t think anyone is arguing with you about him winning the nomination. I figured he was always the nominee. I think some of us are taking issue with how strong you seem to think he will be as a general election candidate. He’s been running for president for 5 years and the best he can do is 24%. He’s under performing and a lackluster candidate.

The RCP average has him only 1.6% behind the President. I want Obama to win, but its not going to happen unless people feel like the economy is improving. The good news is that the economy is improving.

116 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:11:38pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Derp.

[Link: twitter.com…]

Young Iowans for Secession

117 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:11:40pm

Ron Paul: “We’re all Austrians now.”

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:11:42pm

re: #110 moderatelyradicalliberal

His being a Mormon is a huge problem, Nobody wants to address it even though questions about gender, religion and race where asked constantly during 2008. Whatever the reasons he’s a sub par front runner.

This is the reason there is no chance that Huntsman would be VP.

He might make a good Secretary of State.

119 Gepetto  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:11:55pm

re: #4 neilk

Ron Paul does not want to legalize pot. He does not want the federal government to ban pot, but the federal pot law affects virtually no one. Paul is perfectly OK with state drug laws. The best you can say is that he thinks a war on drugs is a bad priority, but even then, he’s talking about federal policy.

If you are in one of the states where the feds have completely taken down fully state-legal dispensaries and growers, you would realize that federal pot laws affect everyone, everywhere.

120 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:12:46pm

re: #118 EmmmieG

This is the reason there is no chance that Huntsman would be VP.

He might make a good Secretary of State.

My prediction if Romney wins the nom, his vice presidential pick will be Gov. Chris Christie.

121 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:12:51pm

re: #118 EmmmieG

This is the reason there is no chance that Huntsman would be VP.

He might make a good Secretary of State.

He would be good for that. One thing I like and respect about Huntsman compared with his opponents exempting Paul obviously is he doesn’t always try to act like Mr. tough guy on foreign policy.

122 Robert O.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:14:02pm

re: #93 aagcobb

I’ll post this poll again. Republicans like Romney, not intensely, and there is nothing left standing between him and the nomination. And I was someone who didn’t think he could win, but the dwarves arrayed against him are too flawed to stop him.

Romney has to be the clear favorite. But considering there has been nothing conventional about this GOP race - I doubt even one serious media commentator could even have guessed the twists and turns ahead of time - there is plenty of opportunity for the candidates to tear down each other.

It is a safe bet that Ron Paul will carry on all the way to the finish. His attacks on Romney will only get more frenzied and vociferous.

In Santorum, the evangelicals are now at their absolute last resort, having tried-and dumped-Trump, Bachmann, Perry, Cain and Gingrich. Two weeks ago, I didn’t even consider a Santorum bounce because Santorum is just so way-out-there. There is still one candidate left who hasn’t had a bounce - Huntsman, but the theocrats will NEVER tolerate him. It is inevitable that some of the lower ranked (currently) religious extremist will drop out soon. The evangelicals could still rally around the last non-Paul crazy left standing.

A three-way race is still possible. Even in late campaign, we can still expect Romney and Paul to go all the way to the finish.

123 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:14:24pm

re: #120 tacuba14

My prediction if Romney wins the nom, his vice presidential pick will be Gov. Chris Christie.

I figure Marco Rubio, in the hopes of winning over the Tea Party vote.

124 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:14:32pm

re: #115 aagcobb

The RCP average has him only 1.6% behind the President. I want Obama to win, but its not going to happen unless people feel like the economy is improving. The good news is that the economy is improving.

I agree. But given the economy, Romney should be way ahead of Obama. Even the people at Gallup said Obama is over performing. Obama could lose, but he shouldn’t. Not with such a weak opponent.

125 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:14:52pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Aww, look at all the wittle naive tards.

Granted, I’m their age, but I don’t fall for that shit.

126 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:15:26pm

re: #118 EmmmieG

This is the reason there is no chance that Huntsman would be VP.

He might make a good Secretary of State.

He is very handsome!

127 Mark Winter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:15:32pm

re: #108 freetoken

There’s no reason for Santorum to drop out at all. He can ride the Anybody-But-Romney movement all the way to the end, given that the religious right will most likely rally around him.

Even though he won’t get enough delegates to win, he can get enough to be a featured speaker at the convention and maybe even get the VP nod. Remember, 2016 is just around the corner, and Santorum and Huntsman both can look forward to that year as “their” year.

Ron Paul takes away too many of the “Anybody but Romney” crowd.
How big is that religious right?

128 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:01pm

re: #123 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I figure Marco Rubio, in the hopes of winning over the Tea Party vote.

Doesn’t hate dark immigrants enough.

129 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:13pm

re: #120 tacuba14

My prediction if Romney wins the nom, his vice presidential pick will be Gov. Chris Christie.

No it will probably be VA governor Bob McDonald unless he fells like he has to pick a real super duper fundie, which he may.

130 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:16:26pm

re: #123 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I figure Marco Rubio, in the hopes of winning over the Tea Party vote.

Maybe, that’s very possible but it’s pretty clear Romney feels nothing but animosity for the tea-bag folk. Although Romney not liking something has never deterred him from supporting it in the past.

131 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:17:34pm

Seems appropriate.

132 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:17:44pm

Are we really doing this? I thought this whole thing was some kind of circus starring goofball stupid white guys. These guys are for REAL?

Will the real Presidential Candidates please stand up?

133 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:17:52pm

re: #127 Mark Winter

How big is that religious right?

It’s the largest component of the GOP “base”, and is the crowd, older, that turns out for every election. They are the ones that turned out in 2010 when the Obama youth decided to not show up at the polls and vote for Democrats, and thus turned the Congress into the Tea Paryting mess.

134 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:17:53pm

What about Huckabee as VP? He’s fundie, southern and likeable.

135 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:18:00pm

re: #129 moderatelyradicalliberal

No it will probably be VA governor Bob McDonald unless he fells like he has to pick a real super duper fundie, which he may.

That’s what I think. The GOP wants to win Va back and badly and McDonnell is fairly popular here. Rubio wouldn’t shock me though.

136 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:18:09pm

I just listened to RP make his statement. I honestly haven’t heard him talk much, other than reading his quotes, but the impression I get is a man with the speaking experience of 70 plus years, and the maturity of a teenager.

137 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:18:13pm

re: #130 tacuba14

Maybe, that’s very possible but it’s pretty clear Romney feels nothing but animosity for the tea-bag folk. Although Romney not liking something has never deterred him from supporting it in the past.

I’m figuring what we’ll see is a major shake-up at the convention, with Romney being strong-armed as McCain was into accepting somebody who appeals more to the Tea Party.

138 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:18:22pm

re: #134 aagcobb

What about Huckabee as VP? He’s fundie, southern and likeable.

They both despise each other, not happening.

139 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:18:28pm

re: #134 aagcobb

What about Huckabee as VP? He’s fundie, southern and likeable.

For Romney? Can’t see that.

140 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:05pm

re: #138 tacuba14

They both despise each other, not happening.

Didn’t stop Kennedy from picking LBJ.

141 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:25pm

I see Romney honestly being stuck in the same predicament McCain was honestly.

142 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:31pm

re: #120 tacuba14

My prediction if Romney wins the nom, his vice presidential pick will be Gov. Chris Christie.

Could be. Christie was out in Iowa campaigning or Mittens over the holidays.

143 Stanghazi  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:54pm

Who won?

144 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:19:59pm

re: #130 tacuba14

Maybe, that’s very possible but it’s pretty clear Romney feels nothing but animosity for the tea-bag folk. Although Romney not liking something has never deterred him from supporting it in the past.

He needs to pick somebody from a battle ground state. Obama won several states that he didn’t need to win in 2008 to win the electoral college. Romney has to widdle away at that.

145 blueraven  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:20:14pm

13 votes separating Romney and Santorum
830/817

146 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:20:46pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

Who won?

Rupert Murdoch.

147 blueraven  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:21:05pm

re: #145 blueraven

13 votes separating Romney and Santorum
830/817

92% of the votes in

148 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:21:23pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

Who won?

Still too close to call between Romney and Santorum.

149 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:21:34pm

re: #142 makeitstop

Could be. Christie was out in Iowa campaigning or Mittens over the holidays.

I can’t see it being Christie when Romney’s problem is he’s viewed as not being conservative enough.

150 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:21:37pm

“there will be a great debate in the republican party…”

“…which i will be willing to blow up as long as it means i can hit romney as much as possible before the primaries are over i hates him i hates him i does…”

151 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:04pm

Seriously?

Why do we tolerate letting two states pick our presidential nominee?

I would support a rotating primary system. (Groups of five, everyone gets a turn being first.)

152 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:13pm

Newt’s trying to scare us with his victory speech.

153 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:19pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

Who won?

Better grab your balls (if you’re male) because this shit is still going down right to the wire.

154 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:22:44pm

re: #135 HappyWarrior

That’s what I think. The GOP wants to win Va back and badly and McDonnell is fairly popular here. Rubio wouldn’t shock me though.

Yeah, that’s his best bet, but McDonnell hasn’t run in an election with Obama on the top of the ticket. People keep forgetting that there are a lot of people who will come out to vote for Obama that didn’t when he wasn’t on the ballot.

155 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:09pm

re: #147 blueraven

Who is the one with 830?

Romney is going to be a weak, weak opposition candidate if he gets this.

Which is good. Considering the insanity and Salafi-like tendencies of the Republicans now, we absolutely cannot afford a Republican Presidency.

156 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:16pm

re: #151 EmmmieG

As pointed out earlier, these early states are not so much selecting the candidate as much as deselecting the also-rans.

And besides, the GOP establishment had already picked Romney years ago.

157 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:23pm

Who lost can be called already. Gingrich, Perry and Bachmann.

158 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:30pm

re: #150 engineer dog

“there will be a great debate in the republican party…”

“…which i will be willing to blow up as long as it means i can hit romney as much as possible before the primaries are over i hates him i hates him i does…”

Who’s that, Ron Paul or Gollum?

159 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:33pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

I can’t see it being Christie when Romney’s problem is he’s viewed as not being conservative enough.

But if you’re going against Obama you’ll need to siphon independent votes, which would be easier with a moderate like Christie.

160 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:23:48pm

re: #152 darthstar

Newt’s trying to scare us with his victory speech.

If he is THIS proud of himself for finishing 4th, lord help us all if he actually manages to win something.

161 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:24:10pm

re: #159 tacuba14

But if you’re going against Obama you’ll need to siphon independent votes.

Ron Paul seems to be sucking up the self declared “independents”.

162 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:24:25pm

Newt’s bitter about Romney’s negative ads. He’s pumping up Paul and Santorum and not mentioning Mitt by name…but he’s sure going after the “Massachusetts Moderate”

163 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:24:42pm

re: #154 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, that’s his best bet, but McDonnell hasn’t run in an election with Obama on the top of the ticket. People keep forgetting that there are a lot of people who will come out to vote for Obama that didn’t when he wasn’t on the ballot.

Very true. Thing about Bobby McD is he’s not gaffe prone. Other than the Confederate History Month thing he doesn’t do that sort of thing. He’s still a big socon though and is not the moderate he ran as in 2009.

164 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:24:56pm

Andy Carvin @acarvin
High on a hill was a lonely goatherd / Layee odl, layee odl, lay-ee-o! #austrianschool

165 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:25:04pm

mitt beat the crap out of gingrich with these ads in the past few weeks but he created a pasty faced doughboy monster

166 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:25:09pm

re: #159 tacuba14

But if you’re going against Obama you’ll need to siphon independent votes.

Romney could pick someone like Mitch Daniels, and count on Obama hatred to motivate the Base. The Palin selection was a big mistake for McCain.

167 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:25:14pm

Newt wants to destroy the Republican Party…holy crap…I think I’m starting to like him.

168 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:25:45pm

@AriBerman
Santorum now back up by two Duggar families

169 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:26:02pm

re: #159 tacuba14

But if you’re going against Obama you’ll need to siphon independent votes, which would be easier with a moderate like Christie.

Right but you need to get your base out first and foremost. Two guys regarded as moderates on the ticket isn’t going to excite the GOP base. It’s tough finding the right person who can both satisfy the base and pick up Independent voters.

170 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:26:17pm

re: #159 tacuba14

But if you’re going against Obama you’ll need to siphon independent votes.

I think there’s and argument to made that losing candidates lose part of their base and a majority of independents. I don’t know if Romney can find a running mate who will appeal to both so he may as well go for a battle ground state choice: McDonnell or Rubio.

171 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:26:18pm

re: #158 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Who’s that, Ron Paul or Gollum?

newt he hates him he hates him teh tricksy mittster he does

172 Altermite  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:26:28pm

And Romney just pulled ahead of santorum by a few votes due to urban precincts reporting in.

173 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:26:37pm

Do the women voting for Santorum understand that he wants them not to have contraception? My sister had four babies in four years (long story—not planned that way). She could explain to them what it is like.

174 blueraven  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:26:46pm

re: #155 ProLifeLiberal

Who is the one with 830?

Romney is going to be a weak, weak opposition candidate if he gets this.

Which is good. Considering the insanity and Salafi-like tendencies of the Republicans now, we absolutely cannot afford a Republican Presidency.

Romney…was leading
It was 26,830 to 26,817 BTW

Now Santorum has gone ahead again

175 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:27:15pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

Right but you need to get your base out first and foremost. Two guys regarded as moderates on the ticket isn’t going to excite the GOP base. It’s tough finding the right person who can both satisfy the base and pick up Independent voters.

Have you seen the animosity geared towards Obama? Without any kind of evidence they look at him as the reincarnation of a black/muslim Karl Marx.

176 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:27:21pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

Who won?

Satan.

177 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:27:36pm

re: #171 engineer dog

newt he hates him he hates him teh tricksy mittster he does

So, Gollum then.

178 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:27:45pm

The next “debate”, which is real soon now, ought to be a doozy with Gingrich feeling the need to vent at Romney, and Santorum being knighted as the lead Anybody-But-Romney candidate.

Gingrich will bring out the knives.

179 Mark Winter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:27:52pm

re: #133 freetoken

It’s the largest component of the GOP “base”, and is the crowd, older, that turns out for every election. They are the ones that turned out in 2010 when the Obama youth decided to not show up at the polls and vote for Democrats, and thus turned the Congress into the Tea Paryting mess.

I still believe that Obama would tear Santorum apart in any debate or encounter, even if Santorum speaks with Jesus twice a day.

180 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:28:13pm

re: #175 tacuba14

Have you seen the animosity geared towards Obama? Without any kind of evidence they look at Obama like the reincarnation of a black/muslim Karl Marx.

Of course, I have. I am just saying that I can’t see the GOP having two guys regarded as moderate on the ticket when a large part of their base wants them to be more conservative.

181 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:28:27pm

re: #179 Mark Winter

I still believe that Obama would tear Santorum apart in any debate or encounter, even if Santorum speaks with Jesus twice a day.

Santorum won’t be the nominee.

182 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:28:32pm

The Newt, taking of child labor again (wink wink), and war with Iran. Scary world…bad people…Middle East….change…negative Romney (only as speaking truth)…change. 2 things. Daddy. Volunteers, not money. Courage. Last thing….family…family….share..be together…negative ads relate to the armed forces….


Nothing about jobs etc.

Shit.

183 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:28:40pm

I need a damn shower.

RiceDems Rice Democrats
Santorum is holding onto the lead. Will he slip and let go? Or is Santorum sticky enough that he can keep holding on

anamariecox Ana Marie Cox
RT @steveking_: @anamariecox By tomorrow morning Santorum will be on the lips of every American. #iacaucus

I feel sick.

Retch

184 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:29:41pm

Next “debates” are back to back:

January 7, 2012 9pm ET on ABC
Location: Saint Anselm College in Manchester, New Hampshire
Sponsor: ABC News and WMUR
Participants: TBD

January 8, 2012 9am ET on NBC (Yes, 9am)
Location: Chubb Theatre at the Capitol Center for the Arts in Concord, NH
Sponsor: NBC News, Facebook and the Union Leader
Participants: TBD

185 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:29:48pm

re: #183 ProLifeLiberal

I need a damn shower.

I feel sick.

Retch

The comedy keeps coming like this, I’m gonna end up with sore sides from laughing too hard.

186 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:29:59pm

re: #182 Naso Tang

Volunteer… Courage…family…share..be together

I think that is his jobs message.

187 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:31:04pm

Most of those counties have just a few hundred people turning out to vote. How in hell did so much emphasis get bestowed on such a small insignificant state? Baffling how our system is set up.

188 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:31:12pm

re: #185 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I admit it is funny but, I feel mildly ill.

189 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:31:36pm

re: #163 HappyWarrior

Very true. Thing about Bobby McD is he’s not gaffe prone. Other than the Confederate History Month thing he doesn’t do that sort of thing. He’s still a big socon though and is not the moderate he ran as in 2009.

And that’s the problem for anyone Mitt picks, even “moderate” Republicans are far right nuts if you just dig a little. I think if Mitt picks a nominee that instituted Confederate History Month this might be a motivating factor for AA voters all over the country. Maybe even Virginia, they haven’t had a real chance to let McDonnell know how they felt about that. Rubio, Christie, Daniels. It doesn’t matter, you can make them all look like the far right loons they really are. Most Americans know these guys as well as the knew Sarah Palin. They only have to the let the far right loon come out once.

190 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:32:53pm

re: #189 moderatelyradicalliberal

And that’s the problem for anyone Mitt picks, even “moderate” Republicans are far right nuts if you just dig a little. I think if Mitt picks a nominee that instituted Confederate History Month this might be a motivating factor for AA voters all over the country. Maybe even Virginia, they haven’t had a real chance to let McDonnell know how they felt about that. Rubio, Christie, Daniels. It doesn’t matter, you can make them all look like the far right loons they really are. Most Americans know these guys as well as the knew Sarah Palin. They only have to the let the far right loon come out once.

McDonnell really pissed me off when he did that. He knows better. And I am tired of Northern born politicians pandering to the Confederate lovers. George Allen did it too.

191 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:32:53pm

re: #187 tacuba14

Most of those counties have just a few hundred people turning out to vote. How in hell did so much emphasis get bestowed on such a small insignificant state? Baffling how our system is set up.

They’re “important” because they went first. A few other states, thought they would move up their dates, but Iowa said screw that, which is why they did this shit in January this year.

192 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:33:08pm

re: #180 HappyWarrior

Of course, I have. I am just saying that I can’t see the GOP having two guys regarded as moderate on the ticket when a large part of their base wants them to be more conservative.

The VP doesn’t have much effect on voting anyway. I think Romney’s primary concern will be to avoid McCain’s mistake and select a VP who could credibly be President, though there will be intense pressure on him to select a wingnut.

193 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:33:12pm

But the winner of illness inducing hilarity is from one of our own.

CuriousLurker CuriousLurker
Eeew! *gag* > RT @jaunte: @Gus_802 Looks like a three way tie with Santorum somwhere in the middle of Paul and Romney. [Santorum Sandwich]

:Dry Heaves while laughing:

194 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:33:18pm

Steve King admits it: We’ve been employing hostage strategy

INGRAHAM: You think that would have helped the Republican Party and you guys would be in a better position today if the government had been shut down?
KING: The shutdown isn’t the point so much as, I don’t want the shutdown either. But if you are afraid of the shutdown you can’t have the confrontation and you lose every negotiation along the way.

195 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:33:43pm

re: #187 tacuba14

Most of those counties have just a few hundred people turning out to vote. How in hell did so much emphasis get bestowed on such a small insignificant state? Baffling how our system is set up.

But How much money per voter?//

Good thing we have a supreme court to control that./

196 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:34:27pm

re: #187 tacuba14

The nomination process has less than 1/10th the number that the general election has. It’s “retail” politics, with each candidate working for every last vote.

I’m not sure how it would be better, unless the US were to change to a Parliamentary system and have more frequent meaningful elections. The US is more on an 8 year turnover of major control of government, and the stakes are large, so the “warm-up” is long and laborious.

197 Mark Winter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:34:43pm

re: #181 aagcobb

Santorum won’t be the nominee.

Yes I know. But still shit happens. Remember what happened to Dean. Sometimes it just takes a banana peel.

Fanatism can gain an unstoppable momentum.

198 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:35:08pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They’re “important” because they went first. A few other states, thought they would move up their dates, but Iowa said screw that, which is why they did this shit in January this year.

That’s kinda my question. Why of all the 50 states have them go first? It should at least be a state with a sizable population.

199 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:35:12pm

Bachmann’s hubby has a cold sore…

200 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:35:16pm

re: #194 jaunte

The clip from this need to be used against every Republican running for election at the federal level.

201 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:36:42pm

re: #194 jaunte

Steve King admits it: We’ve been employing hostage strategy

How many hostage takers in history have used that line of reasoning? “I don’t want to do this and hurt people, but I need the leverage that taking a hostage provides.”

You want to understand why Obama may very well win this year, even with a weak economy, then you need look no further.

202 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:36:45pm

re: #199 darthstar

Bachmann’s hubby has a cold sore…

Bachmann’s hubby has a cold, sore, - what?

203 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:36:50pm

re: #197 Mark Winter

Yes I know. But still shit happens. Remember what happened to Dean. Sometimes it just takes a banana peel.

Fanatism can gain an unstoppable momentum.

For example, Goldwater. And the election results would be similar if Santorum was the GOP nominee.

204 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:37:10pm

re: #194 jaunte

Steve King admits it: We’ve been employing hostage strategy

He’s a jackass. Whines about the government yet wants to use the same government for his morals.

205 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:38:07pm

what a negativity shitstorm from these morons!

206 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:38:08pm
207 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:39:43pm

WaPo tweet:

Lowest ranking of four issues in #iacaucus entrance poll? Health care, by big margin. 42% said economy, 34 deficit, 14 abortion, 4 hlth care

Bachmann was wrong to focus on health care. Santorum was smarter to focus on abortion.

208 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:40:38pm

He was out buying fashion accessories for our dog, Boomer, because he likes playing dress-up, and it keeps him from embarrassing me on the campaign trail…
—Michele Bachmann just now about her husband.

209 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:40:48pm

I just logged in to see who won Iowa.

So, who won Iowa?

210 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:40:55pm

re: #207 freetoken

WaPo tweet:

Bachmann was wrong to focus on health care. Santorum was smarter to focus on abortion.

14 percent abortion? That’s a tad higher than I would expect.

211 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:02pm

She’s… staying in?

212 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:09pm

Bachmann. Got to take a pee after listening. Maybe a crap.

213 Mark Winter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:17pm

re: #203 aagcobb

For example, Goldwater. And the election results would be similar if Santorum was the GOP nominee.

The problem is that 2012 could be the kind of year for fanatics.
Economic meltdown plus a nuclear war in the Middle East are real possibilities.

214 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:18pm

re: #209 b_sharp

I just logged in to see who won Iowa.

So, who won Iowa?

Currently Mitt and Santorum are racing to the bottom.

215 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:22pm

re: #207 freetoken

WaPo tweet:

Bachmann was wrong to focus on health care. Santorum was smarter to focus on abortion.

That’s good news for Romney. I thought Romneycare would be a big issue in the GOP campaign, but it hasn’t been.

216 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:24pm

god has done give us our beans!

217 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:32pm

I hope Mitt asks for a recount.

218 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:41:49pm

re: #213 Mark Winter

The problem is that 2012 could be the kind of year for fanatics.
Economic meltdown plus a nuclear war in the Middle East are real possibilities.

Well 2012 IS supposed to be year a lot of shit goes down, isn’t it?

219 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:42:02pm

re: #206 darthstar

Image: 400484_10150477571344091_502324090_9153428_427978204_n.jpg

Good anti-rape campaign poster.

I think they would be better off showing a very large intimidating guy with tats in prison garb with the quote “if you rape, you will be raped.”

220 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:42:32pm

re: #208 darthstar

He was out buying fashion accessories for our dog, Boomer, because he likes playing dress-up, and it keeps him from embarrassing me on the campaign trail…
—Michele Bachmann just now about her husband.

You are shitting me, right? The gaydar just blew up.

221 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:42:50pm

re: #211 JasonA

She’s… staying in?

she didn’t come in 5th in a republican contest, it’s the media trying to tell the people she lost, that’s all

///

222 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:43:20pm

re: #211 JasonA

She’s… staying in?

Winning zero counties in your home state? Check!
Staying in is the only fanatical move left.

223 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:43:32pm

re: #214 dragonfire1981

Currently Mitt and Santorum are racing to the bottom.

Yah, but who won?

224 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:44:06pm

wondering how many people have googled Santorum for the first time tonight…

225 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:44:08pm

re: #220 aagcobb

You are shitting me, right? The gaydar just blew up.

She really did say that he bought glasses for their dog while she was giving a speech at a caucus event today.

226 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:44:17pm

re: #207 freetoken

WaPo tweet:

Bachmann was wrong to focus on health care. Santorum was smarter to focus on abortion.

Which means that the eventual candidate will not get much traction on pounding the pulpit in favor of repealing Obamacare. The GOP might as well put that one on the backburner until after November, if not later.

227 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:44:57pm

Have the Paulians started accusing Israel of voter fraud yet

228 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:45:06pm

re: #224 JasonA

@RiceDems has been a rich soup of Santorum puns tonight.

229 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:45:29pm

See in my opinion, anyone who wants to repeal Obamacare should, you know, have some idea what it might be replaced with, because one way or another, this nation needs health care reform.

230 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:45:43pm

re: #226 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Which means that the eventual candidate will not get much traction on pounding the pulpit in favor of repealing Obamacare. The GOP might as well put that one on the backburner until after November, if not later.

Despite what people claimed about the TP’s emergence the GOP is still very into social conservatism. In fact they’ve grown more socially conservative which I think long term is gonna be a disaster for their party.

231 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:09pm

re: #229 dragonfire1981

See in my opinion, anyone who wants to repeal Obamacare should, you know, have some idea what it might be replaced with, because one way or another, this nation needs health care reform.

Dolts like Bachmann think we didn’t need health care reform.

232 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:12pm

re: #225 darthstar

She really did say that he bought glasses for their dog while she was giving a speech at a caucus event today.

Gotta wear sunglasses.

233 Altermite  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:22pm

[Link: caucuses.desmoinesregister.com…] is pretty cool. You can tell where the major cities are by the bits that went for Romney.

234 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:46pm

speech by perry soon


oops

235 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:51pm

re: #227 SpaceJesus

Have the Paulians started accusing Israel of voter fraud yet

Real voting booths, the one poll Paulians can’t spam.

236 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:56pm

re: #232 b_sharp

Gotta wear sunglasses.

Future’s so bright, even the dogs

237 Mark Winter  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:46:57pm

re: #218 dragonfire1981

Well 2012 IS supposed to be year a lot of shit goes down, isn’t it?

Yes but not because some people have no clue about the Maya calendar.

Europe, China, Pakistan, Iran… lots of things can go wrong this year. Doesn’t mean that they have to.

But at least there is a sane US president in 2012.

238 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:47:25pm

re: #229 dragonfire1981

See in my opinion, anyone who wants to repeal Obamacare should, you know, have some idea what it might be replaced with, because one way or another, this nation needs health care reform.

The GOP talking points are: allow purchasing insurance across state lines, limiting malpractice suits, expanding tax free medical spending accounts, and shunting the sick into high risk pools.

239 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:47:37pm

re: #233 Altermite

[Link: caucuses.desmoinesregister.com…] is pretty cool. You can tell where the major cities are by the bits that went for Romney.

Yup. As I noted earlier, Romney did relatively well in those places one would expect Obama to do well - the more populated areas and industrial/tech locations.

240 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:47:47pm

re: #229 dragonfire1981

See in my opinion, anyone who wants to repeal Obamacare should, you know, have some idea what it might be replaced with, because one way or another, this nation needs health care reform.

The GOP’s old motto when it came to Obamacare was “Repeal & Replace.” Then they lopped off “Replace” because they couldn’t think of anything that wouldn’t just be a total frak-up. So now it’s just “Repeal,” with the empty promise that once Obamacare is done away with, they’ll think up something in the way of “reform.”

241 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:48:30pm

re: #206 darthstar

Image: 400484_10150477571344091_502324090_9153428_427978204_n.jpg

Good anti-rape campaign poster.

That is good.

Sorry I was gone so long. I had to write something for a game I’m running.

242 elizajane  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:48:47pm

re: #240 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The GOP’s old motto when it came to Obamacare was “Repeal & Replace.” Then they lopped off “Replace” because they couldn’t think of anything that wouldn’t just be a total frak-up. So now it’s just “Repeal,” with the empty promise that once Obamacare is done away with, they’ll think up something in the way of “reform.”

Tort reform! It’s all the lawyers’ fault! They donate to Obama, after all.

243 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:49:17pm

re: #242 elizajane

Tort reform! It’s all the lawyers’ fault! They donate to Obama, after all.

Yeah, tort reform works fine! Just ask Texas…okay, bad example.

244 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:49:22pm

Given how alienated the GOP is from:

The young;
The brown;
The highly educated.

I don’t see how they can overcome and win in 2012.

And I’m glad for that.

245 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:49:53pm

re: #236 jaunte

Future’s so bright, even the dogs

sunglasses! but i bet her dog hasn’t received a new slide rule in years…

246 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:50:21pm

re: #244 freetoken

Given how alienated the GOP is from:

The young;
The brown;
The highly educated.

I don’t see how they can overcome and win in 2012.

And I’m glad for that.

If they have the same electorate as in 2010, they win. That’s why the GOP is working so hard to keep college students and poor people from voting.

247 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:50:58pm

re: #243 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, tort reform works fine! Just ask Texas…okay, bad example.

Actually, it’s worked well in Texas. Malpractice insurance premiums stopped skyrocketing and the statesis now adding doctors instead of losing them.

248 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:50:59pm

re: #238 aagcobb

The GOP talking points are: allow purchasing insurance across state lines, limiting malpractice suits, expanding tax free medical spending accounts, and shunting the sick into high risk pools on to icebergs.

FTFY.

249 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:52:03pm

re: #245 engineer dog

sunglasses! but i bet her dog hasn’t received a new slide rule in years…

Who needs a slide rule when there are TI-84s out there?

250 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:52:11pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

Despite what people claimed about the TP’s emergence the GOP is still very into social conservatism. In fact they’ve grown more socially conservative which I think long term is gonna be a disaster for their party.

Clearly their supporters (a large percentage of Americans) don’t think for themselves beyond single issues, so why would you expect them to become better educated in the future, since they are what they are because they listen to those we talk about?

251 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:52:12pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Actually, it’s worked well in Texas. Malpractice insurance premiums stopped skyrocketing and the statesis now adding doctors instead of losing them.

Has the cost of healthcare come down as well?

252 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:52:13pm

Rachel breaking up a fight between Ed and Lawrence with “Look! It’s Rick Perry!”

253 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:53:24pm

Ooh…looks like Rick Perry might be just a little liquored up…this could be fun.

254 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:53:27pm

re: #249 b_sharp

Who needs a slide rule when there are TI-84s out there?

Silver.

255 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:54:16pm

re: #218 dragonfire1981

Well 2012 IS supposed to be year a lot of shit goes down, isn’t it?

No, that was 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010………

256 bratwurst  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:54:36pm
@fivethirtyeight Nate Silver:
6 votes for Lizard People just counted in Allamakee County

It’s about time!

257 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:55:09pm

How do they determine the margin of error? If it’s taken into account will that necessitate a recall in this non-binding caucus? Anyone know?

258 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:55:47pm

re: #251 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Something says no. And if I am not mistaken, the uninsured rate is somrthing like 50%.

I’d really love to know how Republicans would deal with someone like me, with a Pre-Existing Condition. I’ve never gotten an answer.

I think they believe in Social Darwinism, and expect me to be unable to pay Medical Bills and die early.

Western States have tried Laissez-Faire before. In one instance, it led to the Intensification of the Irish Potato Famine, resulting in the death of over million souls.

259 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:55:50pm

My Speech was written by some dude named Colby Smith…

260 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:57:00pm

re: #257 tacuba14

How do they determine the margin of error? If it’s taken into account will that necessitate a recall? Anyone know?

No Recount. These are to elect delegates to go to another caucus where the actual delegates are picked. (I could be missing a few details, but that’s the gist of it)

261 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:57:03pm

re: #249 b_sharp

Who needs a slide rule when there are TI-84s out there?

calculators are for softies with opposable thumbs

262 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:57:16pm

Colt. He’s a Texan afterall. I honestly think Perry has trouble reading.

263 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:06pm

re: #250 Naso Tang

Clearly their supporters (a large percentage of Americans) don’t think for themselves beyond single issues, so why would you expect them to become better educated in the future, since they are what they are because they listen to those we talk about?

I don’t think social conservatism is going to sell even among younger conservatives. Most young conservatives I know are conservative in the economic not social sense.

264 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:35pm

re: #246 aagcobb

If they have the same electorate in 2010, they win.

Disagree.

When looking at the 2010 results the one thing that becomes very clear is how the youth did not vote, but older people did.

In other words, the fickleness of the young, which were so hot for Obama, led them to not doing their duty and voting.

That is what cost the Democrats in 2010.

Obama needs to turn out the vote, which did not happen in 2010 because he was not running.

All politics is local, and young people are not as responsible in their duties as older people, and thus it takes a charismatic leader to get the turnout.

265 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:43pm

re: #261 engineer dog

calculators are for softies with opposable thumbs

You dewclaw bigot.

266 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:50pm

re: #258 ProLifeLiberal

Something says no. And if I am not mistaken, the uninsured rate is somrthing like 50%.

I’d really love to know how Republicans would deal with someone like me, with a Pre-Existing Condition. I’ve never gotten an answer.

I think they believe in Social Darwinism, and expect me to be unable to pay Medical Bills and die early.

Western States have tried Laissez-Faire before. In one instance, it led to the Intensification of the Irish Potato Famine, resulting in the death of over million souls.

If you were a fetus they would fight tooth and nail to save your life…

267 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:58:53pm

Perry’s dropping out. I’m a little surprised. I thought he’d fight on to SC.

268 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 8:59:01pm

re: #251 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Has the cost of healthcare come down as well?

It’s grown less than in other places, as I remember. It’s not just lawsuits that fuel the rise of health care cost. They are a notable factor, but not the biggest one.

269 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:03pm

re: #267 Jdorfma4

Really?

That should free up time at the next two “debates”, giving Gingrich even more time to get his 10,002 words in.

270 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:16pm

re: #267 Jdorfma4

Perry’s dropping out. I’m a little surprised. I thought he’d fight on to SC.

really? out of the race? link?

271 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:24pm

the aftermath of this caucus doesn’t look good for the gop - surging but unelectable santorum, fuming gingrich out for blood, paul acting like he’s won…

272 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:33pm

Sorry, Texas…Rick Perry is coming home. Better pray for rain.

273 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:00:46pm

re: #270 tacuba14

really? out of the race? link?

He’s “reassessing” his campaign.

274 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:01:01pm

re: #263 HappyWarrior

There are a number of young theocrats in Colorado Springs, but I think this is an anomaly. Probably due to the toxic influence of Focus on the Family (among others).

The Air Force Academy needs to be moved. The number of incidents involving the Evangelicals violating various Church and State things there is astounding.

It will also help kill Colorado Springs, turning Colorado more blue overall. Personally, I would move the Air Force Academy to Fort Collins.

275 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:01:29pm

re: #263 HappyWarrior

I don’t think social conservatism is going to sell even among younger conservatives. Most young conservatives I know are conservative in the economic not social sense.

Yes, but I wasn’t thinking such short term. The older ones will live a few years yet.

276 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:02:05pm

Can this song have anymore cliches?

277 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:02:25pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Actually, it’s worked well in Texas. Malpractice insurance premiums stopped skyrocketing and the statesis now adding doctors instead of losing them.

Native Texan hear and no it did not work well. Not for patients anyway. Texas has the highest rate of uninsured citizens of any state in the country. Those uninsured people can’t afford to see those doctors. Texans were told that tort reform would lower insurance premiums and costs for them. That did not happen.

278 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:02:35pm

re: #264 freetoken

Obama won’t be as charismatic in 2012, though. And the young will likely be unhappy with the compromises he’s made. I doubt he can turn them out as before.

279 Robert O.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:02:49pm

re: #210 dragonfire1981

14 percent abortion? That’s a tad higher than I would expect.

At times, it does seem that the entire raison d’etre for Christianity in America is so people can rant about abortions and gays. What is the nonsense about loving thy neighbor, forgiveness, etc, anyway?

280 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:02:50pm

re: #266 JasonA

But Republicans give not one fuck after you’ve been born. They are the Christian Equivalents to the Salafis in many ways now. Proudly Ignorant, trying to tear down all forms of enlightenment, and domineering of women and social minorities.

281 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:03:18pm

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

It’s grown less than in other places, as I remember. It’s not just lawsuits that fuel the rise of health care cost. They are a notable factor, but not the biggest one.

Actually no, the cost of healthcare has increased by nearly double the national rate, as has the cost of health insurance, such that a quarter of all people in the state are uninsured.

282 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:03:32pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

However, more people turn out for Presidential elections. This alone will favor the Democrats.

283 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:03:47pm

re: #274 ProLifeLiberal

There are a number of young theocrats in Colorado Springs, but I think this is an anomaly. Probably due to the toxic influence of Focus on the Family (among others).

The Air Force Academy needs to be moved. The number of incidents involving the Evangelicals violating various Church and State things there is astounding.

It will also help kill Colorado Springs, turning Colorado more blue overall. Personally, I would move the Air Force Academy to Fort Collins.

Yeah I’ve heard about how Colorado Springs is. Yikes. Anyhow, thing is most people our age are fairly socially liberal. I know a lot of people who disagree with me about the economy but really don’t give two fucks if you’re gay, want to smoke a joint, etc. I just think long term if the GOP continues to rely on social conservatives they’re hurtign themselves. They need to adapt to the reality of the 21st century just iike the Democrats did after the New Deal coalition faded.

284 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:04:15pm

Christ. Santorum’s up by 37 votes. There are more people on this thread, I think.

285 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:04:25pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

Obama won’t be as charismatic in 2012, though. And the young will likely be unhappy with the compromises he’s made. I doubt he can turn them out as before.

And the only candidate the GOP has going for them with the youth vote is Crazy Uncle Ron. So, since he’s unlikely to win the nomination, the youth vote is left with either supporting Obama, supporting a third party, or sitting this one out.

286 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:04:52pm

re: #284 JasonA

Christ. Santorum’s up by 37 votes. There are more people on this thread, I think.

You are correct.

287 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:21pm

re: #277 moderatelyradicalliberal

Texans were told that tort reform would lower insurance premiums and costs for them. That did not happen.

Was there an effect on insurance profits?

288 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:32pm

I’m still in awe that Santorum may win this thing. More shocking than Huckabee winning last time if you ask me.

289 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:53pm

ok, “reassessing” He’s dropping out, face it.

Here’s food for thought. Bachmann powers on but is a dead duck. NH goes to Romney but no surprise. SC is now WIDE open for Santorum. What is Gingrich goes rapid dog of Romney, whom he clearly despises, and Santorum gets 80 percent of the Perry vote, which isn’t unlikely considering they are the same person in the end. Santorum could win huge in SC, where Romney is weak due to his mormon problem. Then what? I’m talking myself into Santorum ending up the last man standing in this.

290 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:05:57pm

re: #274 ProLifeLiberal

There are a number of young theocrats in Colorado Springs, but I think this is an anomaly. Probably due to the toxic influence of Focus on the Family (among others).

The Air Force Academy needs to be moved. The number of incidents involving the Evangelicals violating various Church and State things there is astounding.

It will also help kill Colorado Springs, turning Colorado more blue overall. Personally, I would move the Air Force Academy to Fort Collins.

It ain’t movin’, forget about that. There’s no constituency for moving it and no real reason, either. Trying to move a service academy in order to tilt the political balance of a state would also be very badly received by the military, and the Air Force has several bases in Colorado.

Dumb idea, forget it.

291 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:06:02pm

re: #281 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Actually no, the cost of healthcare has increased by nearly double the national rate, as has the cost of health insurance, such that a quarter of all people in the state are uninsured.

Facts have a well-known liberal bias.

292 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:06:28pm

re: #288 HappyWarrior

I’m still in awe that Santorum may win this thing. More shocking than Huckabee winning last time if you ask me.

I’ll applaud Santorum for this much: he put in the hard work. The man visited all 99 counties of that state.

293 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:07:27pm

re: #289 Jdorfma4

I’m starting to think that Gingrich is highly motivated by cutting Romney off at the knees.

294 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:07:32pm

re: #292 JasonA

I’ll applaud Santorum for this much: he put in the hard work. The man visited all 99 counties of that state.

Yeah he worked hard no doubt. He’s still a fanatical jackass of course.

295 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:07:46pm

re: #285 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And the only candidate the GOP has going for them with the youth vote is Crazy Uncle Ron. So, since he’s unlikely to win the nomination, the youth vote is left with either supporting Obama, supporting a third party, or sitting this one out.

I’m betting they’ll sit this one out. This is a “settling” election, rather than a “hero” election, and I’m betting that is a turn-off for younger voters.

296 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:02pm

re: #284 JasonA

Christ. Santorum’s up by 37 votes. There are more people on this thread, I think.

Chaos theory cannot account for this. Maybe Pat Robertson is right after all.

297 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:05pm
Crowd bursts into God Bless America at Santorum rally #iacaucus

America’s Hezbollah party.

298 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:05pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

I came out Liberal, but somewhat twisted. I’m willing to use the same tactics back to the Republicans. Such as denial of funds to areas that need it.

If it was up to me, there would be no disaster funding to the south. They don’t like Federal Interference, they don’t get any money after a Hurricane decides to shred Mobile.

COS has made me an incredibly Machiavellian Social Democrat.

299 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:07pm

re: #292 JasonA

I’ll applaud Santorum for this much: he put in the hard work. The man visited all 99 counties of that state.

agreed. i hate him but he doesn’t mind rolling up his sleeves and getting his hands dirty…

Oh god, could I have 11 months of Santorum jokes? I died and went to heaven didn’t I? The flu I had this week actually killed me and I’m going all Sixth Sense now right?

300 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:25pm

re: #294 HappyWarrior

Yeah he worked hard no doubt. He’s still a fanatical jackass of course.

I would never suggest otherwise.

301 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:28pm

re: #289 Jdorfma4

ok, “reassessing” He’s dropping out, face it.

Here’s food for thought. Bachmann powers on but is a dead duck. NH goes to Romney but no surprise. SC is now WIDE open for Santorum. What is Gingrich goes rapid dog of Romney, whom he clearly despises, and Santorum gets 80 percent of the Perry vote, which isn’t unlikely considering they are the same person in the end. Santorum could win huge in SC, where Romney is weak due to his mormon problem. Then what? I’m talking myself into Santorum ending up the last man standing in this.

Gross, santorum is fecal matter and semen, not sweat, unless of course you are talking about that.

302 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:08:51pm

re: #281 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Actually no, the cost of healthcare has increased by nearly double the national rate, as has the cost of health insurance, such that a quarter of all people in the state are uninsured.

To what do you attribute this rise? Surely tort reform could not have caused prices to go up.

303 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:09:24pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

I’m betting they’ll sit this one out. This is a “settling” election, rather than a “hero” election, and I’m betting that is a turn-off for younger voters.

So Obama fails to bring in the youth vote, not something surprising with incumbents. I have doubts that will be the deal breaker on Election Day.

304 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:09:45pm

Tort reform! Drink!

305 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:09:48pm

re: #298 ProLifeLiberal

I came out Liberal, but somewhat twisted. I’m willing to use the same tactics back to the Republicans. Such as denial of funds to areas that need it.

If it was up to me, there would be no disaster funding to the south. They don’t like Federal Interference, they don’t get any money after a Hurricane decides to shred Mobile.

COS has made me an incredibly Machiavellian Social Democrat.

I wouldn’t want to punish a whole region because of assholery. I do share your irritation though. And by the way this is why Ron Paul pisses me off. He whines about the federal government but has no problem using it to get pork for his district. I know people like Paul. They bitch about the government yet have no problem utilizing it.

306 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:10:31pm

re: #303 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So Obama fails to bring in the youth vote, not something surprising with incumbents. I have doubts that will be the deal breaker on Election Day.

Romney will have at least as much trouble motivating people to get to the polls for him.

307 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:10:40pm

re: #303 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So Obama fails to bring in the youth vote, not something surprising with incumbents. I have doubts that will be the deal breaker on Election Day.

Maybe not, but I was just talking factors, not if it adds up to a win. We’re still too far out to predict that, really.

308 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:10:53pm

re: #298 ProLifeLiberal

I came out Liberal, but somewhat twisted. I’m willing to use the same tactics back to the Republicans. Such as denial of funds to areas that need it.

I don’t think you think so.

309 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:32pm

My bet still goes that Romney takes this one in the end. The counties with sizable populations are most of the ones that haven’t been fully counted. And they all tilt towards Romney.

310 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:33pm

re: #289 Jdorfma4

ok, “reassessing” He’s dropping out, face it.

Here’s food for thought. Bachmann powers on but is a dead duck. NH goes to Romney but no surprise. SC is now WIDE open for Santorum. What is Gingrich goes rapid dog of Romney, whom he clearly despises, and Santorum gets 80 percent of the Perry vote, which isn’t unlikely considering they are the same person in the end. Santorum could win huge in SC, where Romney is weak due to his mormon problem. Then what? I’m talking myself into Santorum ending up the last man standing in this.

No, Paul is running interference for Romney. Paul has already attacked Santorum as a big government liberal, just as he shredded Gingrich. Between Paul and Romney’s super pac, they’ll turn Santorum into a greasy spot on the floor.

311 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:34pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

To what do you attribute this rise? Surely tort reform could not have caused prices to go up.

I thought the discussion was on the supposed “benefits” of tort reform in Texas, not determining why they did not come to pass. Unless you wish to argue that tort reform would have worked, if not for some other variable?

312 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:11:39pm

McCain To Endorse Romney Tomorrow

The establishment is lining up behind their guy.

313 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:12:06pm

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

Republicans want a Culture War, give it to them. Deprive their areas of the nation of economic growth.

The Air Force is being infected with Hardline Conservative Christianity. That needs to stop. At the very least, it is creating an image problem for the US.

re: #305 HappyWarrior

True, but since one side has a little “Culture War” thing going on, the other must respond in kind. Let them wallow in the stew they want to create, and see how they like it.

314 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:12:23pm

re: #287 Naso Tang

Was there an effect on insurance profits?

They are very profitable. Largely because most people on Medicaid in Texas are forced to chose a Medicaid plan that’s run by a private HMO. Texas has effectively handed Medicaid over the private insurance companies.

315 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:12:59pm

re: #310 aagcobb

No, Paul is running interference for Romney. Paul has already attacked Santorum as a big government liberal, just as he shredded Gingrich. Between Paul and Romney’s super pac, they’ll turn Santorum into a greasy spot on the floor.

Oh, good point, I forgot about RP.

316 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:13:10pm

re: #306 JasonA

Romney will have at least as much trouble motivating people to get to the polls for him.

Romney’s got all the charisma of a department store mannequin, his campaign’s not built on his appeal to voters, it’s built on being the only sane man in a field of loonies. He wins the nomination not because people think he’s a great candidate, but because the others scare the living shit out of rational-minded voters.

317 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:13:21pm
318 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:13:29pm

re: #312 freetoken

McCain To Endorse Romney Tomorrow

The establishment is lining up behind their guy.

Dare I say that may hurt Romney in some quarters. It will help him with Independents though.

319 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:13:31pm

re: #312 freetoken

McCain To Endorse Romney Tomorrow

The establishment is lining up behind their guy.

All the money and endorsements will flow to Romney. Santorum doesn’t stand a chance.

320 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:13:31pm

re: #312 freetoken

McCain To Endorse Romney Tomorrow

The establishment is lining up behind their guy.

I’m shocked. Shocked, I say.

321 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:13:46pm
322 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:14:17pm

re: #317 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry Returning To Texas To Assess Campaign

Bachmann Campaign Manager Says She May Drop Out

Of course she says she’s still in the running.

Damn, Perry and Bachmann practically gone in one primary. Gonna make the next debate might interesting.

323 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:14:27pm

re: #321 freetoken

Paulian delusions:

EXCLUSIVE: Ron Paul May Have Just Secretly Won Iowa

I swear. The Paul supporters may have a fair point that the media isn’t fair to their guy but the conspiracy delusional shit is most unbecoming.

324 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:14:29pm

re: #312 freetoken

McCain To Endorse Romney Tomorrow

The establishment is lining up behind their guy.

I honestly wonder if today will give him pause. McCain’s a company man at heart and will endorse Romney in the end, but I wonder if he holds his cards a little tighter now.

325 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:14:57pm

re: #317 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry Returning To Texas To Assess Campaign

Bachmann Campaign Manager Says She May Drop Out

Of course she says she’s still in the running.

Worse… Managed… Campaign… Ever.

326 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:15:30pm

re: #308 Naso Tang

The phrasing there seems odd.

327 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:15:32pm

re: #319 aagcobb

All the money and endorsements will flow to Romney. Santorum doesn’t stand a chance.

What if God decides that Santorum is “it”? How dare you deny God’s will?

328 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:15:43pm

at this moment, the game between santorum and romney is that the first one to come out and make a speech is the loser

329 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:15:59pm

re: #321 freetoken

Paulian delusions:

EXCLUSIVE: Ron Paul May Have Just Secretly Won Iowa

We’ll all be like that once the EPA stops regulating our water.

330 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:16:25pm

re: #327 freetoken

What if God decides that Santorum is “it”? How dare you deny God’s will?

God wants Romney to win. That’s why he told all those wingnuts to run for President, so they would split the evangelical vote./

331 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:16:28pm

re: #325 Jdorfma4

Worse… Managed… Campaign… Ever.

Right up there with Senator Snooze, Fred Thompson. Seriously I had Republican friends and acquaintances telling me that liberals should be terrified of this guy. Got a nap out of the deal though and a nap is always good.

332 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:16:39pm

re: #321 freetoken

Paulian delusions:

EXCLUSIVE: Ron Paul May Have Just Secretly Won Iowa

Could be the turd in the punch bowl at the convention.

333 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:16:48pm

re: #329 JasonA

We’ll all be like that once the EPA stops regulating our water.

Once our water is free of fluoride then you’ll be able to see the light.

334 justaminute  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:17:11pm

I was watching TV and it sounded like Perry was dropping out of the race! If Santorum actually gets the nomination. Don’t worry about the youth vote, when they hear Santorum and his anti-birth control blather, women and their daughters will be camping out overnight at the polling sites on election day and it won’t be to vote for Santorum.

335 The Force Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:17:21pm

re: #329 JasonA

We’ll all be like that once the EPA stops regulating our water.

I didn’t realize Giardia was the cause of Whacked-out Poo Brain.

336 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:18:05pm

re: #334 justaminute

I was watching TV and it sounded like Perry was dropping out of the race! If Santorum actually gets the nomination. Don’t worry about the youth vote, when they hear Santorum and his anti-birth control blather, women and their daughters will be camping out overnight at the polling sites on election day and it won’t be to vote for Santorum.

Still 49 states to go. I strongly doubt that Rick will be the nominee.

337 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:18:13pm

re: #333 freetoken

Once our water is free of fluoride then you’ll be able to see the light.

Right through the holes in your teeth.

338 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:18:17pm

James Carville on CNN said Perry was ‘worst ever’ potential presidential nominee; Dana Loesch, also on the panel made dissenting faces, but had no rebuttal. Why is she on television at all?

339 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:18:28pm

Santorum speaks….

340 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:18:52pm

re: #334 justaminute

I was watching TV and it sounded like Perry was dropping out of the race! If Santorum actually gets the nomination. Don’t worry about the youth vote, when they hear Santorum and his anti-birth control blather, women and their daughters will be camping out overnight at the polling sites on election day and it won’t be to vote for Santorum.

Not going to happen. Romney is the nominee unless someone finds his other secret wives at the Romney compound./

341 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:19:28pm

Oboy. More god talk.

342 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:19:41pm

Frothy Mixture’s opening line sounded like a high school valedictory speech. Emotional maturity of a 17 year old. C.S. Lewis? Really? OK Jesus-boy.

343 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:20:36pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

To what do you attribute this rise? Surely tort reform could not have caused prices to go up.

I’m a Texan who works at a health care clinic so I’ll answer. 25% of uninsured people going to ERs for medical care and Medicaid patients being handed over to privately run HMOs. Many of those Medicaid patients couldn’t get Medicaid until they were poor enough or already chronically ill. Tort reform was sold to Texas as something that would lower medical malpractice costs for doctors and intern lower medical costs and insurance premiums for patients. That did not happen. It was great for doctors and HMOs and terrible for hospitals and patients.

344 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:20:43pm

re: #339 freetoken

He’s been to more counties than Bachmann has children.

345 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:20:49pm

Ugh, Romney-bot 3000 just retook the lead with 98% in.

346 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:20:52pm

This will make his crushing defeat in New Hampshire just a little softer.

347 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:21:12pm

re: #338 jaunte

James Carville on CNN said Perry was ‘worst ever’ potential presidential nominee; Dana Loesch, also on the panel made dissenting faces, but had no rebuttal. Why is she on television at all?

Wingnut eye candy

348 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:21:17pm

re: #342 Jdorfma4

Frothy Mixture’s opening line sounded like a high school valedictory speech. Emotional maturity of a 17 year old. C.S. Lewis? Really? OK Jesus-boy.

C.S. Lewis is revered by many Christians.

349 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:21:42pm

Fascism!!

350 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:22:37pm

re: #348 dragonfire1981

C.S. Lewis is revered by many Christians.

I know, i’m saying its a transparent attempt to appeal to Christians. High School do-gooders do that all the time, they quote C.S. Lewis so people see how godly they are. Its bothersome.

351 AyaReiko  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:22:47pm

Mittens ahead by 62. News @ 11.

352 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:23:22pm

Bachmann and Perry voters will likely go over to Santorum as soon as they drop out. Methinks the pronouncements of Romney as the eventual nominee might be a tad premature.

353 The Force Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:23:26pm

re: #348 dragonfire1981

C.S. Lewis is revered by many Christians.

The weird thing is that so many fundies like him, even though it takes only minimal effort to notice that Lewis’s writings don’t endorse their rigidity or their moral high-horse.

354 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:23:32pm

re: #351 AyaReiko

It’s a functional tie, which both of them getting 6 delegates.

355 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:24:24pm

Face palm.

356 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:24:34pm

re: #351 AyaReiko

Mittens ahead by 62. News @ 11.

It’s still Frothy’s night. Conservative Evangelicals have their champion now.

357 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:24:43pm

Santorum: “…the state of our culture continues to decline, with values that are unlike the values that built this country.”

Voting rights for propertied white men only?

358 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:12pm

re: #352 Talking Point Detective

Bachmann and Perry voters will likely go over to Santorum as soon as they drop out. Methinks the pronouncements of Romney as the eventual nominee might be a tad premature.

Well, Santorum will start getting press now. Remember this was his surge. He never got the attention that sunk the other candidates.

359 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:13pm

Santorum has better handlers than the others. He jumped into jobs. That’s smart. He’s a tool and wrong on everything but its a savvy move.

360 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:19pm

Well, Santorum just equated Democrats with Mussolini.

361 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:30pm

re: #343 moderatelyradicalliberal

I’m a Texan who works at a health care clinic so I’ll answer. 25% of uninsured people going to ERs for medical care and Medicaid patients being handed over to privately run HMOs. Many of those Medicaid patients couldn’t get Medicaid until they were poor enough or already chronically ill. Tort reform was sold to Texas as something that would lower medical malpractice costs for doctors and intern lower medical costs and insurance premiums for patients. That did not happen. It was great for doctors and HMOs and terrible for hospitals and patients.

why anybody would think that “tort reform” is anything more than restricting the ability of victims to protect themselves is beyond me

if conservatives believe in the operation of the free market to weed out bad operators, why would they endorse a policy that just uses intrusive government to protect these bad operators?

362 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:44pm

re: #352 Talking Point Detective

Bachmann and Perry voters will likely go over to Santorum as soon as they drop out. Methinks the pronouncements of Romney as the eventual nominee might be a tad premature.

Its not, but thanks for playing. Huckabee won Iowa bigger, but his lack of money and organization doomed his campaign. Santorum is in the same boat; Romney has all the money, endorsements and organization.

363 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:25:54pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

I’m betting they’ll sit this one out. This is a “settling” election, rather than a “hero” election, and I’m betting that is a turn-off for younger voters.

Mitt Romney has a way of making his opponent look heroic. Hell, a little over a month ago you were saying his dishonesty would prevent you from voting for him in the primary and that he stood for nothing. Then you settled.

Obama on the other hand not only took out OBL but got us out of Iraq. Whereas Romney is on the record saying we should have kept our soldiers there in spite of the Iraqis refusal to grant sovereignty. All Obama has to do is remind people, young and old, that a Romney presidency equals more ineptly planned wars, dead soldiers and global hatred directed our way.

364 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:26:12pm

re: #358 JasonA

Well, Santorum will start getting press now. Remember this was his surge. He never got the attention that sunk the other candidates.

True.

365 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:26:23pm

Reagan!!

366 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:26:25pm

re: #362 aagcobb

Its not, but thanks for playing. Huckabee won Iowa bigger, but hs lack of money and organization doomed his campaign. Santorum is in the same boat; Romney has all the money, endorsements and organization.

Romney, with Santorum as the Veep

367 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:26:53pm

re: #357 jaunte

Santorum: “…the state of our culture continues to decline, with values that are unlike the values that built this country.”

Voting rights for propertied white men only?

Or the right of men to own other men. But no to Rick, we’ve lost our morals because gay people can marry. Forget about economic woes and terrorism, the gays wanting to marry and not be treated like shit is the real problem.

368 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:27:01pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney, with Santorum as the Veep

Romney has to pick a southerner or a Latino. Has to. No chance otherwise.

369 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:27:06pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney, with Santorum as the Veep

I really shiver at the thought, if there is a God he would make sure that would never come to pass.

370 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:27:27pm

re: #361 engineer dog

why anybody would think that “tort reform” is anything more than restricting the ability of victims to protect themselves is beyond me

if conservatives believe in the operation of the free market to weed out bad operators, why would they endorse a policy that just uses intrusive government to protect these bad operators?

It’s another big lie like getting rid of collective bargaining and busting unions will create jobs, raise salaries and solve budget deficits.

371 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:28:18pm

Repeal all regulations over 100 million? good god. Can I have more arsenic in my water?

372 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:28:21pm

Yeesh. This is so stupid.

373 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:28:33pm

Lol.

374 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:28:51pm

re: #371 Jdorfma4

With an extra dose of Cadmium for good measure.

375 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:28:53pm

re: #366 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney, with Santorum as the Veep

Who can Romney pair with? Susana Martinez is the only name I’ve heard that actually makes sense.

376 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:28:58pm

re: #368 Jdorfma4

Romney has to pick a southerner or a Latino. Has to. No chance otherwise.

No he doesn’t. Veeps are fun to speculate about, but they don’t make that big a difference in the general election.

377 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:29:33pm

re: #375 goddamnedfrank

Who can Romney pair with? Susana Martinez is the only name I’ve heard that actually makes sense.

Who is she?

378 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:29:34pm

re: #376 aagcobb

No he doesn’t. Veeps are fun to speculate about, but they don’t make that big a difference in the general election.

Are you kidding? Have you ever heard of Sarah Palin?

379 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:29:53pm

re: #376 aagcobb

No he doesn’t. Veeps are fun to speculate about, but they don’t make that big a difference in the general election.

It does for the “northernish” mormon whose party spent 5 months demonizing Latinos. I honestly beleive its his only chance to be competitive.

380 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:30:06pm

“and I lost my Senate seat by 18 percent…”

381 Robert O.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:30:10pm

99% precincts in. CNN has Santorum ahead of Romney by 5 votes……FIVE!!

382 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:30:46pm

WaPo tweet:

Santorum’s #iacaucus vote more concentrated among very conservatives than other main contenders; 77% of his votes from evangelicals

Obviously God’s man for the job.

383 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:30:49pm

re: #378 tacuba14

Are you kidding? Have you ever heard of Sarah Palin?

Yes. The economy cost McCain the election, not Palin. He would have lost no matter who his VP was.

384 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:31:01pm

i sincerely wish mr santorum luck in his new role as the conservative standard bearer in the fight against massachusetts moderates

heheheheheh…

385 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:31:10pm

re: #381 Robert O.

99% precincts in. CNN has Santorum ahead of Romney by 5 votes…FIVE!!

They don’t have to show their ID to vote, so that’s probably way off.

386 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:31:11pm

Oh brother.

387 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:31:29pm

re: #362 aagcobb

Its not, but thanks for playing. Huckabee won Iowa bigger, but hs lack of money and organization doomed his campaign. Santorum is in the same boat; Romney has all the money, endorsements and organization.

Romney has never won widespread support. The not-Romney candidates have split the not-Romney vote. As they get eliminated, the one that’s left potentially collects the entire not-Romney/Tea Party vote.

Of course, you’re obviously a political analysis genius, but consider the .0001% chance that your certainty might be a tad overconfident.

388 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:32:08pm

Way to show the rest of the country how useless your caucuses are, Iowa.

389 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:32:13pm

@MichaelSkolnik
Newt is the first real victim of the Citizen’s United decision brought on by his Republican friends. #NoSympathy #GetWhatYouPaidFor

390 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:32:26pm

PIZZA!!

391 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:32:45pm

re: #377 aagcobb

Who is she?

Governor of New Mexico. The calculus is that Romney needs someone to either shore up his support with southerners, latinos, or women. NM is more western than traditional southern, but she might do a good job of offsetting his legendary reputation for inauthentic bullshit.

392 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:33:35pm

Leading is not popular in the world today?

393 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:33:45pm

re: #362 aagcobb

Its not, but thanks for playing. Huckabee won Iowa bigger, but his lack of money and organization doomed his campaign. Santorum is in the same boat; Romney has all the money, endorsements and organization.

Then why didn’t he get past 25% with all of those endorsements, organization and money? Shouldn’t those things count for a little more than that? He’s in no better position than he was in 2008. He won less of a percentage than he did in 2008. If wins it will be because of his opponents weakness, not his strength.

394 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:33:51pm

Where do they come up with this shit?

395 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:33:56pm

re: #391 goddamnedfrank

Governor of New Mexico. The calculus is that Romney needs someone to either shore up his support with southerners, latinos, or women. NM is more western than traditional southern, but she might do a good job of offsetting his legendary reputation for inauthentic bullshit.

But has she shot a wolf from a helicopter?

396 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:33:58pm

re: #387 Talking Point Detective

Romney has never won widespread support. The not-Romney candidates have split the not-Romney vote. As they get eliminated, the one that’s left potentially collects the entire not-Romney/Tea Party vote.

Of course, you’re obviously a political analysis genius, but consider the .0001% chance that your certainty might be a tad overconfident.

I’m not, since I was sure Romney couldn’t get the nomination just a few weeks ago. But since then everything has been breaking in his favor.

397 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:34:15pm

re: #394 Gus 802

Frank Luntz, probably.

398 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:34:27pm

The fucking cause of freedom? And Obama has hubris? Are you kidding me?

399 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:34:29pm

re: #395 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But has she shot a wolf from a helicopter?

They call them coyotes down there.

400 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:35:30pm

OK, I’m finished listening to this now.

401 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:35:33pm

re: #393 moderatelyradicalliberal

Then why didn’t he get past 25% with all of those endorsements, organization and money? Shouldn’t those things count for a little more than that? He’s in no better position than he was in 2008. He won less of a percentage than he did in 2008. If wins it will be because of his opponents weakness, not his strength.

You are correct; Romney is the beneficiary of an incredibly weak GOP field.

402 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:36:36pm

Arizona Sen. John McCain will endorse Mitt Romney on Wednesday in New Hampshire.

Big whoop.

403 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:36:43pm

re: #400 Gus 802

OK, I’m finished listening to this now.

Why do you hate freedom?

404 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:09pm

Way to exploit your kids Frothy Mixture. This is why I love our President. He rarely if ever mentions his children except in passing and never to gain political advantage, even though they are fricking adorable and the most functional political family I’ve seen in my lifetime.

405 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:17pm

re: #399 JasonA

They call them coyotes down there.

Um, wolves and coyotes are not the same species. However, as we learned thanks to Obdicut, they can cross-breed.

406 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:24pm

In Story county Romney leads Paul by 1 vote… it’s the home of Iowa State.

Paul does bring in the young.

407 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:27pm

re: #383 aagcobb

Yes. The economy cost McCain the election, not Palin. He would have lost no matter who his VP was.

John McCain wasn’t that strong a candidate, but Palin cost him in swing states. Especially Florida.

408 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:41pm

re: #395 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But has she shot a wolf from a helicopter?

Better yet, she hunts and downs helicopters from wolf-back. She’s like Michelle Rodriguez in Machete, epic level badass.

409 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:49pm

re: #326 ProLifeLiberal

The phrasing there seems odd.

I edited

410 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:54pm

re: #399 JasonA

They call them coyotes down there.

So no then.

(We won’t fall for your silly made up foreign words.)
/

411 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:37:57pm

re: #403 JasonA

Why do you hate freedom?

freedom fries?

412 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:08pm

re: #405 EmmmieG

Um, wolves and coyotes are not the same species. However, as we learned thanks to Obdicut, they can cross-breed.

Take nothing I say seriously.

413 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:19pm

The Beatles???

414 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:24pm

re: #410 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So no then.

(We won’t fall for your silly made up foreign words.)
/

Freedomwolves?

415 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:27pm

All of this for zero (0) delegates.

416 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:38:56pm

re: #415 Gus 802

All of this for zero (0) delegates.

Huh?

417 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:02pm

ok, next we will get our first peek at mitt’s general campaign speech for 2012

418 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:24pm

Good night, lizards. I have to get up this morning, and at this point it doesn’t really matter who ends up with a handful more votes than the other.

419 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:29pm

re: #416 JasonA

Huh?

Iowa’s delegates aren’t actually constrained by tonight’s result, as I recall.

420 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:43pm

re: #415 Gus 802

One would expect the state convention to follow the local results.

421 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:46pm

re: #415 Gus 802

All of this for zero (0) delegates.

You re: #416 JasonA

Huh?

He’s got poopy pants, don’t mind him.

422 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:50pm

Lol.
Rick is ahead by 5 votes.

423 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:39:55pm

also, rick santorum will soon be releasing his second book, tentatively titled ‘Man and Dog at Yale’

424 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:40:44pm

Those are some fraternity looking brats in Mitten’s background.

425 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:41:23pm

re: #363 goddamnedfrank

All Obama has to do is remind people, young and old, that a Romney presidency equals more ineptly planned wars, dead soldiers and global hatred directed our way.

Yeah but how else are conservatives going to feel put-upon, oppressed and martyred. /

426 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:41:33pm

Good Lord the Romney’s are the whitest white people in America.

427 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:41:56pm

re: #420 freetoken

One would expect the state convention to follow the local results.

No, that would make sense. We will have none of that in our democratic process.

428 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:42:02pm

Ad much as I hate Santorum I really dislike Romney. He’s just so damn phony. I don’t feel like he means anything he says, even crap about his family. I’m sure he loves them, I just don’t sense it. He really is, as Jon Oliver said, the guy that just fired your dad. And then he comes up to you and slaps your back and calls you sport.

429 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:42:06pm

Shorter Mitt: “This year we didn’t give a crap about winning Iowa, but the field is so weak here I am!”

430 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:42:43pm

Mittens promising war with Iran.

431 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:42:50pm

re: #426 moderatelyradicalliberal

Good Lord the Romney’s are the whitest white people in America.

Hey! Some of us didn’t choose to be that way. That is of course if you’re referring to just the skin color and not lifestyle.

432 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:43:24pm

He seems flustered, he’s stumbling and is breathless. I think tonight flustered him.

433 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:43:32pm

mitt’s timing sucks

somebody give him a couple valiums

434 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:43:43pm

re: #426 moderatelyradicalliberal

Good Lord the Romney’s are the whitest white people in America.

Check “White and Nerdy.”

Al Yankovic picked Donny Osmond as the whitest, nerdiest man he could find.

(I, personally, would have put Bill Gates there, but he can’t dance.)

435 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:44:29pm

Stop calling him MITT! Its not his real name! :)

436 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:44:33pm

re: #431 tacuba14

Hey! Some of us didn’t choose to be that way.

I’m sorry but they all look like Dan Akroyd’s idle rich country club friends in Trading Places.

437 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:45:07pm

Mitt - your “job” in the private sector was dissembling a broke company and laying people off.

438 AyaReiko  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:45:21pm

Sanitorium ahead by five. News @ 12.

439 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:45:34pm

“I’ll be the president for Job Creators” There it is. I’ll be the president for rich guys.

440 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:45:52pm

More delusion about oil.

America is a sick society, unable to deal with reality. Intervention is needed.

441 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:46:04pm

note: no more meth for mitt until after the election

442 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:46:08pm

re: #440 freetoken

More delusion about oil.

America is a sick society, unable to deal with reality. Intervention is needed.

Word.

443 jaunte  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:46:20pm

@BorowitzReport
Mitt Romney is in a pretty good mood for someone in a dead heat with an insane dude in a sweater vest

444 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:46:30pm

re: #439 Jdorfma4

“I’ll be the president for Job Creators” There it is. I’ll be the president for rich guys.

That’s Mr. 1% right there.

445 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:46:41pm

re: #439 Jdorfma4

“I’ll be the president for Job Creators” There it is. I’ll be the president for rich guys.

The rest of us can wait on them at their country clubs, at a newly removed minimum wage.

446 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:47:13pm

re: #430 freetoken

War with Iran is likely whoever is President. They won’t give up their dream of having nukes without a fight, and we can’t allow them to have said nukes. Thus war is highly likely, unless Iran changes course.

447 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:47:33pm

Mitt Romney couldn’t inspire a Sham-wow salesman.

448 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:48:10pm

re: #447 darthstar

Mitt Romney couldn’t inspire a Sham-wow salesman.

Hi! Zombie Billy Mays here…

449 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:48:18pm

re: #446 Dark_Falcon

War with Iran is likely whoever is President. They won’t give up their dream of having nukes without a fight, and we can’t allow them to have said nukes. Thus war is highly likely, unless Iran changes course.

So we’re going to fight them over their dreams? That’s fucked up.

450 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:48:36pm

Never underestimate. In political analysis it’s not what you think. It’s what other people think.

451 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:49:20pm

This nationalism-religion is more similar to Santorum’s grandfather’s Italy than anyone in that room with Mittens could dare allow themselves to believe.

452 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:49:28pm

Willard Romney is the kind of guy that Eddie Murphy was going for when he did his white man for a day skit on SNL.

453 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:49:37pm

re: #439 Jdorfma4

“I’ll be the president for Job Creators” There it is. I’ll be the president for rich guys.

Job creation is based on demand for services. If everyone is broke, the demand isn’t there.

454 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:49:39pm

re: #446 Dark_Falcon

War with Iran is likely whoever is President. They won’t give up their dream of having nukes without a fight, and we can’t allow them to have said nukes. Thus war is highly likely, unless Iran changes course.

Fine. Then let’s at least have a president who won’t think it’s a good idea for us to do it alone.

455 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:49:39pm

god he’s so infuriating. He’s such a phony. Calling out to Veterans? He really is so soulless.

456 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:49:44pm

re: #449 darthstar

So we’re going to fight them over their dreams? That’s fucked up.

Look, if their dreams are to open a funky little cantina and sing karaoke Shakira every night, good and dandy.

If their dream is to get rid of Israel or part of the US…not good.

457 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:50:04pm

re: #449 darthstar

So we’re going to fight them over their dreams? That’s fucked up.

No, we’re going to fight them because they are actively working towards that dream and will not give it up. And once they’ve achieved it, they’ll use their nukes to throw their weight around and quite possibly attack Israel.

458 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:50:19pm

I love Romney right now. Because he kept his speech short.

459 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:50:46pm

re: #455 Jdorfma4

He really is so soulless.

Maybe.

460 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:51:12pm

re: #458 JasonA

I love Romney right now. Because he kept his speech short.

That’s because it wasn’t the speech he wanted to give.

461 Jdorfma4  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:51:14pm

re: #453 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Job creation is based on demand for services. If everyone is broke, the demand isn’t there.

If Job Creators are rich, odds are just as strong that we’re all poor. History has proven time and time again that these trickle down policies don’t work. You want to make rich people rich? Support the middle class, prosperity bubbles up. that’s where demand comes from.

462 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:51:16pm

re: #458 JasonA

I love Romney right now. Because he kept his speech short.

At some point in time, my mind starts screaming “shutupshutupshutup.”

Unless the speaker is funny, and I remember to use the bathroom at the break.

463 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:51:41pm

Frothy up 34 per MSNBC.

464 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:52:13pm

Okay, okay…we’ll take out Iran…but in 10-12 years when we’re limping out of that country don’t come asking me to support taking out Saudi Arabia (because they’re a threat to Israel) for at least three weeks…I’ll need time to recover.

465 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:52:18pm

re: #448 Varek Raith

Hi! Zombie Billy Mays here…

Pfffttt…Vince Shlomi pitched the Sham-Wow, not Mays.

Geez…

///

466 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:52:50pm

re: #465 talon_262

Pfffttt…Vince Shlomi pitched the Sham-Wow, not Mays.

Geez…

///

Yeah but he ain’t a zombie.

467 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:53:22pm

re: #464 darthstar

Okay, okay…we’ll take out Iran…but in 10-12 years when we’re limping out of that country don’t come asking me to support taking out Saudi Arabia (because they’re a threat to Israel) for at least three weeks…I’ll need time to recover.

I’m pretty sure that at that point we’ll have undone any of the good we may have done in Iraq, too.

468 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:53:33pm

re: #454 JasonA

Fine. Then let’s at least have a president who won’t think it’s a good idea for us to do it alone.

Romney doesn’t want to go it alone, but we might have to. We need to try to get allies on board, but an allied effort is not the critical thing; the critical thing is an effective effort. We can wait for and work with our allies, but we must not forget the objective in the process.

469 EdDantes  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:53:56pm

Those were not Romney’s sons they were clones.

470 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:54:03pm

re: #466 Varek Raith

Yeah but he ain’t a zombie.

The only thing Zombie Billy Mays could pitch is BRAAAIIINNNSSS…

;-P

471 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:54:13pm

re: #459 freetoken

Maybe.

I know I don’t want to put myself in the position of judging people that way. Even Romney. Would make me feel like just some of the religious people I may dislike.

472 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:54:36pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

Romney doesn’t want to go it alone, but we might have to. We need to try to get allies on board, but an allied effort is not the critical thing; the critical thing is an effective effort. We can wait for and work with our allies, but we must not forget the objective in the process.

Airstrikes will merely delay Iran.
The only way to actually stop them is an invasion and occupation.
You support that?

473 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:54:58pm

re: #467 JasonA

I’m pretty sure that at that point we’ll have undone any of the good we may have done in Iraq, too.

Ooh…Operation Iraqi Freedom III - The Wrath of Condi! That’ll be exciting.

474 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:55:01pm

re: #469 EdDantes

Those were not Romney’s sons they were clones.

Actually, I think that Tagg Romney looks like his mother.

475 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:55:27pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

Romney doesn’t want to go it alone, but we might have to. We need to try to get allies on board, but an allied effort is not the critical thing; the critical thing is an effective effort. We can wait for and work with our allies, but we must not forget the objective in the process.

my impression is that obama will have taken care of the whole thing before the republican convention even rolls around

476 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:55:43pm

Tee hee.

@LOLGOP
Beating Obama is so important for the GOP that turnout is lower than 2008 even with Ron Paul bussing in half of Narnia.

477 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:55:50pm

re: #474 EmmmieG

Actually, I think that Tagg Romney looks like his mother.

They look fine to me.

478 FreedomMoon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:56:13pm

re: #474 EmmmieG

Actually, I think that Tagg Romney looks like his mother.

You’re it! I never understood Tagg’s name.

479 SteveMcG  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:56:43pm

I suggested once upon a time that Al Qeada’s strategy was to have the US overreact to 9/11 and give Iran time to build a bomb. I don’t want to go Herman Cain on your asses (I can’t prove it but…) it does seem to correlate with the way things are working out.

480 AyaReiko  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:56:46pm

Sanitorium up by 35 according to CNN. Mews @ 11.

481 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:57:16pm

re: #478 tacuba14

You’re it! I never understood Tagg’s name.

I don’t either. Maybe they were just copying the consonant-vowel-double consonant thing.

482 brennant  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:57:20pm

re: #476 moderatelyradicalliberal

Tee hee.

That is awesome. I had to stifle a guffaw as to not wake my wife and son…

483 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:57:30pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

Romney doesn’t want to go it alone, but we might have to. We need to try to get allies on board, but an allied effort is not the critical thing; the critical thing is an effective effort. We can wait for and work with our allies, but we must not forget the objective in the process.

Careful DF! You know how you might scare folks with all that power you have as president of the United States. Your words have meaning!

//

484 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:57:36pm

Last precinct in Story County comes in… and Paul takes it! He was behind Mittens until the last district.

Not a lot of yellow on this map:
[Link: www.iowagop.org…]

485 SteveMcG  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:58:07pm

Can you imagine what’s going to happen to Iran’s pretty little ships if they try to block the Strait?

486 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:58:33pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

Romney doesn’t want to go it alone, but we might have to.

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

That’s called pre-emptive “we couldn’t find an ally” bullshit…Diplomacy won’t work! We can’t trust them. You sound like Bush. I’m sick of people sending Americans to kill others or die themselves for some trumped up fear of brown people.

487 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:58:36pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

First, we really don’t know what Mittens “wants”.

Secondly, no US President is going to do anything military in Iran without other nations knowing about it and preparing for the fallout.

488 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:58:45pm

re: #485 SteveMcG

Can you imagine what’s going to happen to Iran’s pretty little ships if they try to block the Strait?

$250+ oil.

489 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:59:09pm

re: #478 tacuba14

You’re it! I never understood Tagg’s name.

Man, if a Romney married a Palin, I can only imagine the names they’d come up with.

490 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:59:12pm

re: #484 freetoken

Damn that’s a lot of Paul counties…

491 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:59:13pm

Oh brother.

492 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:59:33pm

re: #475 engineer dog

my impression is that obama will have taken care of the whole thing before the republican convention even rolls around

At which point the Republicans will find something wrong with that. Peaceful solutions? What are we…pussies?

493 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 9:59:48pm

re: #485 SteveMcG

Can you imagine what’s going to happen to Iran’s pretty little ships if they try to block the Strait?

I hope they do. That’s one thing that will get the whole world’s attention.

494 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:00:08pm

re: #486 darthstar

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

That’s called pre-emptive “we couldn’t find an ally” bullshit…Diplomacy won’t work! We can’t trust them. You sound like Bush. I’m sick of people sending Americans to kill others or die themselves for some trumped up fear of brown people.

Nice move. Poisoning the well. Good touch.

495 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:00:33pm

re: #487 freetoken

First, we really don’t know what Mittens “wants”.

Secondly, no US President is going to do anything military in Iran without other nations knowing about it and preparing for the fallout.

I’ll tell you what Mitt wants…as soon as we get a consistent poll of the majority of New Hampshire voters…(opinions can and will change before South Carolina).

496 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:01:00pm

re: #485 SteveMcG

Can you imagine what’s going to happen to Iran’s pretty little ships if they try to block the Strait?

Nothing, because all they need to do is threaten to have speedboats filled with explosives make suicide runs at tankers.

497 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:01:43pm

re: #494 Gus 802

Nice move. Poisoning the well. Good touch.

Yes, yes…not jumping on the INVADE IRAN bandwagon is poisoning the well.

498 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:01:49pm

Good night all!

499 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:01:57pm

re: #495 darthstar

In tonight’s polls in NH CNN is reporting Santorum already has a bump of 5 points in his polling.

I expect he’ll get more, but there aren’t as many religious people in NH as in IA so it will be tough sledding for him there.

500 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:01:59pm

re: #492 darthstar

At which point the Republicans will find something wrong with that. Peaceful solutions? What are we…pussies?

just attempting to read tea leaves, but there seems to be an effort going on between the u.s. and europe to back iran into an aggressive action, which would give us an excuse for a bombing campaign

501 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:02:48pm

re: #499 freetoken

In tonight’s polls in NH CNN is reporting Santorum already has a bump of 5 points in his polling.

I expect he’ll get more, but there aren’t as many religious people in NH as in IA so it will be tough sledding for him there.

Santorum only has to come in a decent 2nd in NH…then he’ll have momentum for the Jesus freaks in SC.

502 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:03:23pm

re: #485 SteveMcG

Can you imagine what’s going to happen to Iran’s pretty little ships if they try to block the Strait?

They’ll end up at the bottom of said strait and will not come back except as salvage.

503 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:04:38pm

re: #497 darthstar

Yes, yes…not jumping on the INVADE IRAN bandwagon is poisoning the well.

It was the “brown people” phrasing. I just searched for the word “invade” on this page and only found one reference and that was your comment.

504 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:04:53pm

re: #500 engineer dog

just attempting to read tea leaves, but there seems to be an effort going on between the u.s. and europe to back iran into an aggressive action, which would give us an excuse for a bombing campaign

Obama starts bombing Iran and the GOP will be wearing flowers and beads and holding sit-ins on the Capitol and calling it “Occupy Compassion—but don’t let the gays or minorities or abortionists near us”…

505 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:04:58pm

When we attack Iran, gas and oil prices will skyrocket.
I don’t want anyone in the US, especially Republicans, bitching about that.
Mmmkay?

506 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:06:02pm

re: #503 Gus 802

It was the “brown people” phrasing. I just searched for the word “invade” on this page and only found one reference and that was your comment.

Canada’s closer, has a smaller military, and is full of white people who speak English. Let’s invade them instead.

507 AyaReiko  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:06:19pm

Sanitorium up by 18 per CNN. Spews @ 11.

508 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:06:35pm

re: #506 darthstar

Canada’s closer, has a smaller military, and is full of white people who speak English. Let’s invade them instead.

Good point. They also have more oil.

509 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:06:41pm

More friggin’ pre-emptive strikes. This has proven to be utterly brilliant in the past.

One wonders if some characters wish we’d gone to war with the Soviet Union in the late 1940s.

510 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:07:07pm

re: #508 Gus 802

Good point. They also have more oil.

And hockey. And beer, eh?

511 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:07:11pm

re: #506 darthstar

Canada’s closer, has a smaller military, and is full of white people who speak English. Let’s invade them instead.

No no, we need to invade foreign countries.

512 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:08:20pm

re: #510 darthstar

And hockey. And beer, eh?

And trees. Lots and lots of trees.

513 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:08:34pm

re: #505 Varek Raith

When we attack Iran, gas and oil prices will skyrocket.

Only because Obama and the EPA won’t let us produce our own oil. Have you not heard?

514 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:08:56pm

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

They’ll end up at the bottom of said strait and will not come back except as salvage.

That Iranian fleet you’re talking about is 3 out of date subs, a few missile fast attack boats, and countless civilian ships outfitted as suicide bombs. Which ones do you think will give us the most trouble?

515 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:08:58pm

re: #486 darthstar

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

That’s called pre-emptive “we couldn’t find an ally” bullshit…Diplomacy won’t work! We can’t trust them. You sound like Bush. I’m sick of people sending Americans to kill others or die themselves for some trumped up fear of brown people.

What the fucking fuck?! Why are you bringing race into this? This isn’t about race, this about a tyrannical nation that is already actively trying to extend its influence, hates us, and is seeking a nuclear weapon.

516 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:09:00pm

re: #511 JasonA

No no, we need to invade foreign countries.

Oh, like Nebraska?
(what the hell movie was that…and was it Nebraska?)

517 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:09:26pm

re: #512 Gus 802

And trees. Lots and lots of trees.

Earth first! We’ll log the other planets later!

518 SteveMcG  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:09:41pm

re: #496 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nothing, because all they need to do is threaten to have speedboats filled with explosives make suicide runs at tankers.

There are a lot of ways the Iranians can block the Strait. I think just the announcement will intimidate the owners of the supertankers from even trying to transit the Strait. If I were an Iranian I would try to develop a long range torpedo. It wouldn’t have to be a great weapon because a supertanker would have a hard time evading anything.

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:10:12pm
520 Robert O.  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:10:42pm

On Iran, I fear that’s going to be a dangerous issue this year, and whoever is US President may not be able to control events drifting the region into war. For the US, it is clear our interest will not be for war. But Iran won’t be giving up its nuclear ambitions. While the US could tolerate a nuclear Iran, Israel definitely won’t, nor would Iran’s Arab neighbors. It is likely that Israel may undertake unilateral action on this one, but unlike Iraq, Iran is far more powerful and Israel cannot finish the task alone, dragging the US (and potentially others) into war in which we have no choice but to participate. Wars are not always planned, but events spiral out of control more quickly than leaders can react - think World War I.

521 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:11:42pm

re: #515 Dark_Falcon

What the fucking fuck?! Why are you bringing race into this? This isn’t about race, this about a tyrannical nation that is already actively trying to extend its influence, hates us, and is seeking a nuclear weapon.

So… like Stalin’s Soviet Union, worse-case.

I’m sure glad we glassed them.

This predilection with assuming that the United States will always enjoy a one-to-zero nuclear advantage over every possible adversary despite it requiring 1940s technology forever and ever Amen…. good God I do not understand it.

522 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:12:10pm

re: #505 Varek Raith

When we attack Iran, gas and oil prices will skyrocket.
I don’t want anyone in the US, especially Republicans, bitching about that.
Mmmkay?

This. Seriously.

Also, no putting it on the credit cards this time…if it needs to be done, it needs to be payed for up front.

523 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:12:39pm

re: #515 Dark_Falcon

What the fucking fuck?! Why are you bringing race into this? This isn’t about race, this about a tyrannical nation that is already actively trying to extend its influence, hates us, and is seeking a nuclear weapon.

Don’t get all high and mighty on me, DF…you know damn well you’ll never believe Iran isn’t trying to build nukes short of a global war…because it doesn’t fit your narrative. We haven’t been out of Iraq for a month and you’re already fantasizing about military options against Iran. It’s your erection, you deal with it.

524 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:13:13pm

Santorum is going to win by 20 votes I think.

525 SteveMcG  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:13:19pm

If a wingnut attacks Iran (with all the accompanying Islamophobia), I think the people on the street would support the government. If Obama does it I think we at least have a point that the Iranian government would face a threat from its own people.

526 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:14:29pm

Iran is already responding, however lightly it may seem to some, to the increased sanctions. France is calling for even stronger sanctions against Iran. There are plans to meet with the Iranians in the works. Iran and the USA don’t want any trouble. People need to relax. But don’t think for a minute that there aren’t already contingency plans set in place and approved by President Obama. That’s just the reality of the world we live in.

527 darthstar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:15:32pm

Alright…this Caucus is a draw. Can’t wait for the expert opinions tomorrow morning.

Good night all.

528 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:16:31pm

re: #456 EmmmieG

Look, if their dreams are to open a funky little cantina and sing karaoke Shakira every night, good and dandy.

If their dream is to get rid of Israel or part of the US…not good.

I am now envisioning…never mind. It’s not good. Khamenei doesn’t look good in a long blond wig in my mind’s eye.

529 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:16:35pm

re: #524 bloodstar

Tonight was about getting rid of the also-rans (Perry, Bachmann). It accomplished that. Santorum and Romney each will probably end up with 6 delegates from Iowa to the national conventional, but the Republican super-delegates can overcome such things.

Winner is Santorum, who is clearly the head of the Anybody-But-Romney pack as well as the leading Voice-Of-God candidate.

530 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:16:51pm

But to that end I would have to agree that all the blustering from the Republican candidates on this issue is out of place. It’s an important issue but it’s not a make or break issue for American’s needs. It also creates other problems for the USA since it feeds into our opponents propaganda war. That is you can say that when Romney speaks this way he’s feeding into the anti-American stereotypes in the Middle East. They should speak softer about this issue much like Obama.

531 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:17:07pm

Let’s say Iran gets the bomb.
It’ll be crude, large and likely in the

532 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:17:29pm

re: #478 tacuba14

You’re it! I never understood Tagg’s name.

Short for Taggart.

533 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:17:39pm

WTF.
Where’s the rest of my post???
Dammit.
:/

534 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:18:18pm

Someone owns it:

Mary Jo Halder @maryjohalder

Ha..I was one of two Huntsman votes in Carroll County. @iamadamh and @thewalrus11 #iacaucus

535 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:18:24pm

As soon as they get close to the USS Carl Vinson their jaws will drop.

536 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:19:22pm

re: #533 Varek Raith

WTF.
Where’s the rest of my post???
Dammit.
:/

(munch munch munch)

what?

537 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:19:24pm

re: #514 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That Iranian fleet you’re talking about is 3 out of date subs, a few missile fast attack boats, and countless civilian ships outfitted as suicide bombs. Which ones do you think will give us the most trouble?

So far they’ve shown little interest in building or using suicide craft. Their series of exercises has featured small craft, but those have been clearly military craft, including minisubs. The Iranian Navy isn’t going in much for manned bombs, they’d rather use guided missiles. Remember, this is a force led by professional officers, not terrorists.

538 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:19:42pm

What if Saudi Arabia decides it wants nukes?

539 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:20:01pm

Christ, is my feed correct? Santorum with eighteen votes in the lead and we’re done?

540 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:20:45pm

Actually, the worst news for Romney is the decision by Perry to drop out. Bachmann is probably going to also drop out. If Huntsman doesn’t manage to catch fire in new Hampshire, we could be left with Romney, Santorum, Paul, and Gingrich as the final four coming into South Carolina.

As it stands, We could be looking at a Santorum win in Iowa, a Romney win in New Hampshire, a Gingrich win in South Carolina, then a Romney/Gingrich showdown in Florida, followed by a Romney/Paul showdown in Nevada.

Iowa has basically said two things, Romney isn’t the first choice of about 3/4ths of Iowa Republicans, and that Bachmann and Perry should drop out.

541 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:21:07pm

re: #539 SanFranciscoZionist

Christ, is my feed correct? Santorum with eighteen votes in the lead and we’re done?

Still waiting on 2 precincts according to CNN

542 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:21:28pm

re: #539 SanFranciscoZionist

Christ, is my feed correct? Santorum with eighteen votes in the lead and we’re done?

TPM has the same numbers.

543 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:21:30pm

If I were in Iowa and went to my local caucus and voted for Huntsman I’d probably tweet it also.

It would make me a rebel in that state.

544 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:21:33pm

Image: 610x.jpg

CORONADO, CA - NOVEMBER 11: U.S. President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama watch the NCAA men’s college basketball Carrier Classic between the Michigan State Spartans and the North Carolina Tar Heels aboard the flight deck of the USS Carl Vinson on November 11, 2011 in San Diego, California.

545 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:22:40pm

re: #544 Gus 802

Image: 610x.jpg

CORONADO, CA - NOVEMBER 11: U.S. President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama watch the NCAA men’s college basketball Carrier Classic between the Michigan State Spartans and the North Carolina Tar Heels aboard the flight deck of the USS Carl Vinson on November 11, 2011 in San Diego, California.

Heh.
Obama is psyched to be there.
Michelle is meh.

546 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:22:57pm

re: #538 Varek Raith

What if Saudi Arabia decides it wants nukes?

It has: ours. The KSA is under our umbrella. That was the Carter doctrine.

547 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:23:03pm

Image: 610x.jpg

U.S. Navy deck crew members work beside the China’s national flag on the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson in Hong Kong water Tuesday, Dec. 27, 2011. The carrier arrived in Hong Kong for a three-day routine port call.

Wingnut freakout!

548 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:24:07pm

re: #546 freetoken

It has: ours. The KSA is under our umbrella. That was the Carter doctrine.

Must you ruin my hypotheticals with your damned facts?!?!
/

549 erik_t  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:24:10pm

re: #544 Gus 802

Politics aside, that was the most badass basketball game in history. The radar sets spinning up on the island in the background really made it.

550 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:24:55pm

re: #549 erik_t

Politics aside, that was the most badass basketball game in history. The radar sets spinning up on the island in the background really made it.

The images looked pretty cool. And the sky.

551 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:25:30pm

Math fail!

Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum are tied in the Iowa caucuses, with just 19 votes separating the two after 99% reporting.

XD

552 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:27:47pm

re: #548 Varek Raith

Must you ruin my hypotheticals with your damned facts?!?!
/

Yeah. And don’t forget they’re the ones that also keep bugging us about doing something about Iran. Funny of course considering Israel and SA’s relationship. I guess that’s kind of cool in a way. The USA can effectively get along with both countries when you come down to it. We’ve always had that ability though. Hopefully this can be resolved diplomatically. The USA plays fair and even if we do blow up sometimes. You know we gave Saddam Hussein a chance to “surrender” before the invasion. We even did that with the Taliban. Was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen.

553 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:27:48pm

re: #530 Gus 802

Speak softly and carry a big stick? I could live with that.

554 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:28:02pm
Ben LaBolt @BenLaBolt 1h

@BarackObama’s campaign recruited more than 7,500 new volunteers in IA tonight #iacaucus
Retweeted by Barack Obama

555 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:28:55pm

re: #537 Dark_Falcon

So far they’ve shown little interest in building or using suicide craft. Their series of exercises has featured small craft, but those have been clearly military craft, including minisubs. The Iranian Navy isn’t going in much for manned bombs, they’d rather use guided missiles. Remember, this is a force led by professional officers, not terrorists.

August 28, 2011
UK Warship Fires on Iran Suicide Boat near Bahrain

Iran’s suicide fleet

No interest at all.

556 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:30:30pm

re: #555 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

August 28, 2011
UK Warship Fires on Iran Suicide Boat near Bahrain

Iran’s suicide fleet

No interest at all.

That’ll work!

//

557 JAFO  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:31:52pm

Lol, Geostrategy Direct and The Sun.

558 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:32:19pm

You heard it here first. Barack Obama is our generation’s Teddy Roosevelt.

I could live with that.

559 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:35:07pm

re: #558 Slumbering Behemoth

You heard it here first. Barack Obama is our generation’s Teddy Roosevelt.

I could live with that.

Oh you should see the crazy talk out there. I know you avoid that stuff. But they don’t see Obama as ol’ Teddy. They think he’s GWB!!11ty The New York Times just came out with an article saying that Obama’s war strategy was evolved from the Iraq War. Effectively a Bush doctrine. Frontline was Tweeting several times tonight about how Obama has increased CIA drone strikes 6 fold. Of course they didn’t mention that the drone strikes have been halted in Pakistan…

560 The Force Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:35:21pm

re: #530 Gus 802

But to that end I would have to agree that all the blustering from the Republican candidates on this issue is out of place. It’s an important issue but it’s not a make or break issue for American’s needs. It also creates other problems for the USA since it feeds into our opponents propaganda war. That is you can say that when Romney speaks this way he’s feeding into the anti-American stereotypes in the Middle East. They should speak softer about this issue much like Obama.

QFT. Necessity of engagement is one thing. Posturing and trumpeting about how we’re going to do it because we’re awesome is hollow triumphalism. And the current (R) candidates are just using war with Iran as a courting display; there’s zero sincerity there, and just like with Libya they’d flop if we did go to war with Obama as CIC.

561 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:35:59pm

re: #557 mracb

Lol, Geostrategy Direct and The Sun.

You would prefer the Daily Mail?

The dramatic moment a machine gunner on a Royal Navy warship opens fire on speedboat ‘suicide bombers’

military experts said it had ‘all the appearances’ of previous incidents when the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has used boats and planes to buzz Western warships to provoke a response.

In one of the most serious recent incidents, five Iranian patrol boats buzzed within 600ft ofthree U.S. 5th Fleet warships as they passed through the Strait of Hormuz in January 2008.

The patrol boats dropped suspicious-looking packages into the water and transmitted the threat: ‘I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes.’

562 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:36:47pm

CNN now has Romney leading by… 1 vote.

Really.

They do this on purpose.

563 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:36:56pm

Mitt is ahead one vote.

564 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:36:56pm

re: #555 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Sun’s article you link to has zero credibility: It has no named sources at all and cites fantastically high numbers of both craft and personnel. And its sole photo is of a clearly military craft armed with two surface-to-surface missiles. That article is so full of FAIL it belongs on Fox Nation.

565 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:37:28pm

There are two districts yet to report. Same two as an hour ago. Yet CNN now changes their totals.

566 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:37:43pm

re: #565 freetoken

There are two districts yet to report. Same two as an hour ago. Yet CNN now changes their totals.

Lol.
Slick bastards.

567 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:38:16pm

re: #559 Gus 802

I’ll stick to referring to him as our TR, if only for the fact that I suspect it would cheese off moonbats and wingnuts alike.

568 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:38:41pm

re: #567 Slumbering Behemoth

Teddy had a mustache.

569 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:39:35pm

re: #561 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You would prefer the Daily Mail?

The dramatic moment a machine gunner on a Royal Navy warship opens fire on speedboat ‘suicide bombers’

That was a threat of mines laid in front of the ship. That is a much more conventional tactic than a suicide ramming, and one Iran really has set up to use. That’s why the 5th fleet has minesweepers.

570 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:39:45pm

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

The Sun is owned by News Corp. Just sayin’.

571 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:40:30pm

re: #568 freetoken

Teddy had a mustache.

That’s too retro-hispter for modern presidents.

572 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:41:50pm

re: #567 Slumbering Behemoth

I’ll stick to referring to him as our TR, if only for the fact that I suspect it would cheese off moonbats and wingnuts alike.

Yeah. Me here. The hysteria is a big turn off to say the least. Seriously? The drone thing has been thrown way out of proportion. Manned aircraft strikes are way down. They firing off more Hellfire missiles and less 2000 pound JDAMs or lower munitions. Drone strikes, despite the recent mishap, are more accurate and carry lower yield weapons to precise targets. As long as we’re there, we will be fighting a war. The only to stop any of it would be a complete withdrawal. As it stands now the Obama administration has not announced any planned withdrawal from the region at this time. So, despite whatever reservation I personally have as some civilian hack I learn to live with.

573 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:41:53pm

Heh, CNN did it again.

574 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:42:02pm

re: #570 Slumbering Behemoth

The Sun is owned by News Corp. Just sayin’.

Well, if I’ve got a point put a ding on it! ‘Cause it does seem like a Murdoch kind of FAIL. How anyone could mistake such an obviously military craft for a latter-day kaitan?

575 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:42:11pm

re: #573 Varek Raith

Heh, CNN did it again.

Oops.

576 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:42:42pm

re: #573 Varek Raith

It’s dramatic, powerful, engaging, cliff-hanging and spectacular.

Just what every television network needs.

577 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:43:04pm

re: #574 Dark_Falcon

Well, if I’ve got a point put a ding on it! ‘Cause it does seem like a Murdoch kind of FAIL. How anyone could mistake such an obviously military craft for a latter-day kaitan?

Ummm yeah. Really. Who does that…?

578 The Force Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:43:09pm

re: #568 freetoken

Teddy had a mustache.

…and a lot of sketchy ideas about scientific racism.

(man, that was a depressing discovery in the second volume of his bio.)

579 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:45:04pm

The idiots on Twitter are saying “every vote counts”, but that is demonstrably not true of caucuses like this one. Romney and Santorum will each end up with probably 6 delegates from Iowa regardless of the final count.

And, Romney will likely maneuver the officially “unpledged” RNC delegates into his corner regardless of the outcome.

580 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:46:16pm

re: #578 The Ghost of a Flea

…and a lot of sketchy ideas about scientific racism.

Lots of that in the early part of the 20th century, as pre-conceived notions from the dominant culture were laid on top of the theory of evolution.

581 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:50:50pm

re: #579 freetoken

The idiots on Twitter are saying “every vote counts”, but that is demonstrably not true of caucuses like this one. Romney and Santorum will each end up with probably 6 delegates from Iowa regardless of the final count.

And, Romney will likely maneuver the officially “unpledged” RNC delegates into his corner regardless of the outcome.

I think Perry and Bachmann voters would go to Santorum with the balance obviously going to Romney. Paul is a lost cause.

582 The Force Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:50:57pm

re: #580 freetoken

Lots of that in the early part of the 20th century, as pre-conceived notions from the dominant culture were laid on top of the theory of evolution.

Yeah…even more of a bummer that it persisted….

583 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:51:03pm

re: #577 JasonA

Ummm yeah. Really. Who does that…?

Someone who doesn’t care about the truth, that’s for sure.

But its near 1am here, and I must be getting to bed. Good night, all you good people. And you too, Kragar. ;)

584 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:51:55pm

And Buddy Roemer apparently lost to “nobody”. I’d also add that I think Romney is still more normal than Santorum. Romney’s talking up this shit about Iran to win the primary.

585 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:52:14pm

re: #581 Gus 802

Yeah, Santorum is “God’s candidate” now.

Oh, and “Clinton County” is now trending nationally on Twitter. That is one of the two counties left with an unreported precinct.

586 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:53:48pm

re: #585 freetoken

Yeah, Santorum is “God’s candidate” now.

Oh, and “Clinton County” is now trending nationally on Twitter. That is one of the two counties left with an unreported precinct.

Who’s Tweeting? Paulbots?

587 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:53:48pm

re: #579 freetoken

The idiots on Twitter are saying “every vote counts”, but that is demonstrably not true of caucuses like this one. Romney and Santorum will each end up with probably 6 delegates from Iowa regardless of the final count.

And, Romney will likely maneuver the officially “unpledged” RNC delegates into his corner regardless of the outcome.

I don’t think it’ll be quite that easy, after all, the precinct delegates aren’t bound to vote for their pledged candidate, which implies that any precinct delegates pledged to Bachmann or Perry would be free to put their support behind someone like Santorum.

Doesn’t mean that’ll happen, but you never know.

Interestingly enough According to politico, there are 7 precincts still outstanding, one Kossuth, Clayton, Tama, Clinton, Appanoose, Van Buren, and Lee Counties. All of whom leaned more towards Santorum over Romney, except for Clinton county, which leaned Romney.

588 wilburs  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:54:21pm

re: #457 Dark_Falcon

No, we’re going to fight them because they are actively working towards that dream and will not give it up. And once they’ve achieved it, they’ll use their nukes to throw their weight around and quite possibly attack Israel.

What earthly reason does Iran have for attacking Israel?

That makes no sense.

589 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:54:54pm

I’m sleepy.
Laters.

590 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:56:04pm

58 people in Iowa forgot to get off the Cain Train.

591 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:56:17pm

re: #587 bloodstar

To the convention the Iowa GOP sends 25 delegates I believe. Tonight’s vote will not determine how those shake out, except that at a minimum both Romney and Santorum will likely get 6.

I expect the GOP machine to make sure that Romney gets the majority of the others.

592 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:57:36pm

re: #591 freetoken

To the convention the Iowa GOP sends 25 delegates I believe. Tonight’s vote will not determine how those shake out, except that at a minimum both Romney and Santorum will likely get 6.

I expect the GOP machine to make sure that Romney gets the majority of the others.

The party knows what’s best for the people.

593 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:02:31pm

re: #588 wilburs

What earthly reason does Iran have for attacking Israel?

That makes no sense.

If not Israel then perhaps some other country. Don’t forget that Iran actively takes part in arming insurgent in ME countries already. As to the who apparently the United States, including Obama; Sarkozy and France; numerous other European countries. They all think that Iran is already enough of a potential threat to impose ever strengthening sanctions against Iran. Obviously there’s already a bilateral consensus that they are a threat. Even the last IAEA from the United Nations said as much. An the UN also seems to think that Iran poses a threat.

594 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:06:08pm

Iran nuclear crisis: France wants ‘stricter’ sanctions
January 3, 2012

France is convinced Iran is developing nuclear weapons and should face “stricter sanctions”, Foreign Minister Alain Juppe has said.

He urged EU countries to follow the US in freezing Iranian central bank assets and imposing an embargo on oil exports.

Iran has dismissed the threat of sanctions. On Tuesday, it denied that a record low of its currency was linked to US punitive measures.

It also denies Western charges that it is trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Tehran says its programme is peaceful - it needs nuclear technology to generate electricity to meet growing domestic demand.

In November, the US, Canada and the UK announced new sanctions against Iran in the wake of the report from the UN nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), that said Iran had carried out tests related to “development of a nuclear device”.

But Iran was not referred to the UN Security Council because Russia and China were opposed to the move.

Si?

595 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:06:36pm

re: #593 Gus 802

Just a few gossiping hens. Who cares what they think?
///

596 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:06:53pm

IAEA nuclear report strengthens case against Iran
By Jonathan Marcus

From November of last year.

The words are dry and cautious. But Tuesday’s report from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) - the UN’s nuclear watchdog - represents a serious indictment of Iran’s nuclear activities.

At the very least, Tehran has a troubling case to answer.

“Since 2002”, the agency says, it has become increasingly concerned about “the possible existence in Iran of undisclosed nuclear-related activities involving military-related organisations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile.”

The phraseology is ponderous but the message is clear. Iran, the IAEA believes, may well have been working on research for a nuclear bomb to arm one of its long-range missiles. This subject has long been a source of charge and counter-charge. Iran, of course, insists that it has no military nuclear programme; its nuclear activities it says are solely for civil purposes.

597 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:08:48pm

re: #594 Gus 802

But Iran was not referred to the UN Security Council because Russia and China were opposed to the move.

A smart dealer never wants to see it’s best paying junkie go to prison.

598 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:09:32pm

re: #597 Slumbering Behemoth

A smart dealer never wants to see it’s best paying junkie go to prison.

See what I mean? I already mentioned Russia and China earlier.

599 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:10:21pm

Wait, those are BBC links? C’mon, everyone knows the Beeb is just a bunch of terrorist appeasing surrender monkeys.
/wait, what?

600 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:12:58pm

re: #599 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, those are BBC links? C’mon, everyone knows the Beeb is just a bunch of terrorist appeasing surrender monkeys.
/wait, what?

Eventually, all media outlets will have been discredited for somethin’.

601 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:13:48pm

re: #599 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, those are BBC links? C’mon, everyone knows the Beeb is just a bunch of terrorist appeasing surrender monkeys.
/wait, what?

Can’t you see! It’s MI6 and Tony Blair all over again! We are being lied to!

See, that’s the thing. Do we honestly get to the point where we don’t trust our intelligence anymore? To me that means that conspiracy theorists have won. Right. They’re lying. Bush lied people died. From now on we shouldn’t trust the IAEA and the CIA.

That’s a recipe for disaster. Or at least one that puts you squarely in a portion of the Paulian camp.

602 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:17:31pm

re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist

Eventually, all media outlets will have been discredited for somethin’.

I couldn’t be a part of any media outlet. My history of dick jokes would sink me before I even got started.

603 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:21:22pm

Come Alive In ‘65!

i bet the beatles and the dave clark five will have some rilly grooooovy hit singles this year…

604 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:24:51pm

re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist

Eventually, all media outlets will have been discredited for somethin’.

I never try to read too much into wording. Semantics is way overrated. People freaking out over what could be called non-approved wording. So they won’t call them “terrorists” from time to time. I read through that stuff and get to the meat of the story. Pure news and I make up my mind. No opinions is what’s preferred. The BBC is a good outfit and one of the best around the world. It’s the same thing with the New York Times. I never hear the end of it. “That Commie rag?” Just because of the Pentagon Papers.

605 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:27:51pm

If you turn into some Puritopian you’d wind up not reading or watching anything. My only rule is avoiding anything associated with News Corp as much as possible. But I follow Alan Colmes and he’s employed by Fox News. I’ll live. We’ll all live and we just need to stop being so sensitive.

606 wilburs  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:28:49pm

re: #593 Gus 802

If not Israel then perhaps some other country. Don’t forget that Iran actively takes part in arming insurgent in ME countries already. As to the who apparently the United States, including Obama; Sarkozy and France; numerous other European countries. They all think that Iran is already enough of a potential threat to impose ever strengthening sanctions against Iran. Obviously there’s already a bilateral consensus that they are a threat. Even the last IAEA from the United Nations said as much. An the UN also seems to think that Iran poses a threat.

Again, what countries is Iran going to attack as soon as they develop nuclear weapons?

The IAEA’s interest is to bring Iran back into the umbrella of supervision of nuclear technology, and to try to enforce the NPT. But that treaty is no longer going to work when you

a. excuse certain countries like Israel and India from its requirements. and
b. constantly threaten countries with nuclear capability but no weapons with attack, to the point where they feel compelled to develop weapons as a deterrent.

607 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:29:04pm

re: #604 Gus 802

Well, the BeebTV is also in the tank for that secular darwinist crap, what with their faith in the ‘theory’ of evolution and all.
///

608 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:29:18pm

Like the anti-Reuters and Presse-France stuff. Heck. I grew up during a time when people considered the Washington Post a right wing paper. And people used to consider the New York Times a “Jewish newspaper.”

609 wilburs  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:31:13pm

re: #603 engineer dog

Come Alive In ‘65!

i bet the beatles and the dave clark five will have some rilly grooovy hit singles this year…

Lets not forget the Kinks!

I listened to Arthur today…Ray Davies is a genius songwriter

610 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:32:45pm

re: #606 wilburs

Again, what countries is Iran going to attack as soon as they develop nuclear weapons?

The IAEA’s interest is to bring Iran back into the umbrella of supervision of nuclear technology, and to try to enforce the NPT. But that treaty is no longer going to work when you

a. excuse certain countries like Israel and India from its requirements. and
b. constantly threaten countries with nuclear capability but no weapons with attack, to the point where they feel compelled to develop weapons as a deterrent.

Do you think there should be sanctions?

611 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:35:33pm

Romney - Winner.

Just been announced.

612 AyaReiko  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:36:18pm

Mittens wins Iowa Caucuses by 8 votes.

Discuss.

613 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:36:31pm

re: #606 wilburs

Again, what countries is Iran going to attack as soon as they develop nuclear weapons?

The IAEA’s interest is to bring Iran back into the umbrella of supervision of nuclear technology, and to try to enforce the NPT. But that treaty is no longer going to work when you

a. excuse certain countries like Israel and India from its requirements. and
b. constantly threaten countries with nuclear capability but no weapons with attack, to the point where they feel compelled to develop weapons as a deterrent.

It’s important to not read too much into this in either direction. No one is going to invade for one and that’s complete bullshit talk. And even doing an air strike is next to impossible to attempt given the objections from Russia and China. We don’t want to fuck with Russia. We’ll keep plodding along though.

614 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:37:45pm

re: #611 wozzablog

Romney - Winner.

Just been announced.

Really?

615 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:38:30pm

Would be cool if the Barack Obama Twitter account was really him.

616 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:38:47pm

Kind of goofy that it isn’t.

617 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:41:04pm

@Gus_802 Gus
Mitt Romney pulls ahead. Santorum speech premature.
2 hours ago via web

@TPM Talking Points Memo
BREAKING: Mitt Romney wins the Iowa Caucuses tpm.ly/wLvtGP
3 minutes ago

618 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:41:38pm

Yep. I called it. I knew Romney would win all along.

619 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:43:31pm

re: #614 Gus 802

Really?

Yup. by 8.

8 votes. Sanitorium second.

620 wilburs  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:43:54pm

re: #610 Gus 802

Do you think there should be sanctions?

Yes

But I don’t think we should be giving a pass to Pakistan, India and Israel for not signing the NPT as well.
But I also think that there needs to be carrots along with sticks.

The relationship between Iran and the US has devolved into an absurd theater where politicians in the US use Iran as a strawman to bash and show how tough they are, and the Iranians do some of the same. and no one has the political courage to improve the relationship. Our interests are much closer then that….there is a reason why they were once our most important ally other then Israel in the region.

621 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:44:11pm

Iowa GOP Confirms Romney Wins Iowa Caucus

The Iowa GOP chairman, Matt Strawn, has just announced that Mitt Romney has won the Iowa Caucus. Romney with 30,015 votes,won over Santorum, with 30,007. An 8-vote victory for Romney.

622 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:44:26pm

re: #619 wozzablog

Heads asplode.

623 wilburs  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:45:01pm

re: #612 AyaReiko

Mittens wins Iowa Caucuses by 8 votes.

Discuss.

Hopefully there will be a recount, numerous court challenges and charges of voter fraud.

624 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:47:16pm

re: #623 wilburs

Hopefully there will be a recount, numerous court challenges and charges of voter fraud.

No can do.
I think it’s a one shot deal.

Besides - even if someone eeks another couple of hundred votes it won’t change their number of delegates.

625 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:48:10pm

Obstacles to improved relations between the U.S. and the Islamic Republic of Iran remain. The U.S. objects to Iran’s sponsorship of terrorism, its nuclear weapons ambitions, and its violations of human rights. The Islamic Republic of Iran still has not recognized Israel’s right to exist and has hindered the Middle East peace process by arming militants, including Hamas, Hizballah, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Although the Islamic Republic of Iran has contributed to positive reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, Tehran has also pursued policies to undermine stability in both countries. Additionally the U.S. Government is concerned with the Islamic Republic of Iran’s recent crackdown on human rights and detainment of civil society actors.

Despite these obstacles, U.S. and Iranian representatives have discussed a number of issues of concern over the years. U.S. and Iranian envoys cooperated during operations against the Taliban in 2001 and during the Bonn Conference in 2002, which established a broad-based government for the Afghan people under President Karzai. In 2007, representatives from the two countries met several times to discuss Iraq.

[Link: www.state.gov…]

626 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:49:57pm

re: #622 Slumbering Behemoth

Fuck, I wish Mark Levin were on the air right now. It’d be a hoot listening to him go all howler monkey. I might remember to tune into his show tomorrow. Maybe.

627 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:50:25pm

re: #617 Gus 802

@Gus_802 Gus
Mitt Romney pulls ahead. Santorum speech premature.
2 hours ago via web

@TPM Talking Points Memo
BREAKING: Mitt Romney wins the Iowa Caucuses tpm.ly/wLvtGP
3 minutes ago

Nice.

628 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:51:32pm

re: #626 Slumbering Behemoth

Fuck, I wish Mark Levin were on the air right now. It’d be a hoot listening to him go all howler monkey. I might remember to tune into his show tomorrow. Maybe.

629 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:51:37pm

Ron Paul still lost!

//

630 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:53:28pm

re: #629 Gus 802

Ron Paul still lost!

//

Makes his earlier gloats all the more enjoyable.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:53:51pm

re: #629 Gus 802

Ron Paul still lost!

//

Yes. Neatly, too, after having a good early showing.

New Hampshire is Mitt’s. What’s the next fight, South Carolina?

632 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:54:52pm

re: #628 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Throw in a few “socialists”, “Obambi”s, and a couple “repewbicans”, and that’s pretty much all four hours of his show.

633 wilburs  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:55:22pm

re: #625 Gus 802

Obstacles to improved relations between the U.S. and the Islamic Republic of Iran remain. The U.S. objects to Iran’s sponsorship of terrorism, its nuclear weapons ambitions, and its violations of human rights. The Islamic Republic of Iran still has not recognized Israel’s right to exist and has hindered the Middle East peace process by arming militants, including Hamas, Hizballah, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Although the Islamic Republic of Iran has contributed to positive reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, Tehran has also pursued policies to undermine stability in both countries. Additionally the U.S. Government is concerned with the Islamic Republic of Iran’s recent crackdown on human rights and detainment of civil society actors.

Despite these obstacles, U.S. and Iranian representatives have discussed a number of issues of concern over the years. U.S. and Iranian envoys cooperated during operations against the Taliban in 2001 and during the Bonn Conference in 2002, which established a broad-based government for the Afghan people under President Karzai. In 2007, representatives from the two countries met several times to discuss Iraq.

[Link: www.state.gov…]

You could say the exact same things about Pakistan and most of the Gulf countries…but we are not threatening to attack them constantly.

There is no question that the events of 911 provided an diplomatic opportunity to address many of these problems in the region, but we had an administration that was too inept, and too fixated on a lunatic neocon dream to take advantage of those opportunities,

634 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:57:00pm

re: #633 wilburs

You could say the exact same things about Pakistan and most of the Gulf countries…but we are not threatening to attack them constantly.

There is no question that the events of 911 provided an diplomatic opportunity to address many of these problems in the region, but we had an administration that was too inept, and too fixated on a lunatic neocon dream to take advantage of those opportunities,

This is all out of my control. I’m just an observer. I can’t pretend to employ policy. There are sanctions in place and we’ll just have to wait.

635 freetoken  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:58:00pm

re: #621 Gus 802

Iowa GOP Confirms Romney Wins Iowa Caucus

The Iowa GOP chairman, Matt Strawn, has just announced that Mitt Romney has won the Iowa Caucus. Romney with 30,015 votes,won over Santorum, with 30,007. An 8-vote victory for Romney.

In religious numerology “8” is considered a powerful number and the number of Christ.

Therefore, maybe Romney really is God’s candidate after all?

636 Kragar  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:58:14pm

How long before Newt cancels his book tour?

637 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:58:19pm

re: #633 wilburs

You could say the exact same things about Pakistan and most of the Gulf countries…but we are not threatening to attack them constantly.

Wait, who are we constantly threatening to attack? And who is this “we”?

638 Gus  Tue, Jan 3, 2012 11:58:40pm

re: #635 freetoken

In religious numerology “8” is considered a powerful number and the number of Christ.

Therefore, maybe Romney really is God’s candidate after all?

Definitely.

639 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:00:55am
640 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:01:25am
641 freetoken  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:01:36am
Eight : 8 - This Biblical Meaning of Number 8: comes from my understanding that it normally deals with one who abounds in strength.

Added Christian Viewpoint: The number eight is also used in reference to fertility. It has also been used when referring to the Resurrection or new beginnings.

See, Mitt has a new beginning.

642 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:01:41am
643 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:02:02am
645 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:02:54am

re: #634 Gus 802

This is all out of my control. I’m just an observer. I can’t pretend to employ policy. There are sanctions in place and we’ll just have to wait.

Not really, as long as we allow politicians to claim that Iran is some gigantic threat, and do nothing to deal with the problem besides posturing, we are part of the problem ourselves.

646 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:03:47am

re: #645 wilburs

Not really, as long as we allow politicians to claim that Iran is some gigantic threat, and do nothing to deal with the problem besides posturing, we are part of the problem ourselves.

You should ask the Green Movement of Iran if they’re a threat.

647 freetoken  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:04:25am

Properties of the number 8

Symbol of the cosmic Christ.

SpaceJesus would approve.

648 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:04:59am

re: #637 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, who are we constantly threatening to attack? And who is this “we”?

Take a look at the Weekly Standard sometime, the same people who brought us the successful product “Iraq” have been clamoring for “Iran” for years.

649 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:05:49am

re: #648 wilburs

Take a look at the Weekly Standard sometime, the same people who brought us the successful product “Iraq” have been clamoring for “Iran” for years.

Yep. Iraq = Iran. Bush = Obama

Got it.

650 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:06:15am

[Rolls eyes.]

651 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:07:12am

re: #648 wilburs

Take a look at the Weekly Standard sometime, the same people who brought us the successful product “Iraq” have been clamoring for “Iran” for years.

So the Weekly Standard is constantly threatening to attack Iran?

652 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:08:29am

re: #649 Gus 802

Yep. Iraq = Iran. Bush = Obama

Got it.

you lost me

Did you know that when David Frum wrote the axis of evil speech, the axis consisted of North Korea and Iraq. It was thought that 2 countries did not really constitute an “axis”, so they through in Iran to make it sound better.

653 Kragar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:09:02am

re: #647 freetoken

Properties of the number 8

SpaceJesus would approve.

Symbol of Chaos

the Symbol of Chaos comprises eight arrows in a radial pattern. In contrast, the symbol of Law is a single upright arrow. It is also called the Arms of Chaos, the Arrows of Chaos, the Chaos Star or the Symbol of Eight.

654 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:09:36am

re: #651 Slumbering Behemoth

So the Weekly Standard is constantly threatening to attack Iran?

No. they won’t be going themselves, they prefer if someone else did it.

655 Moodsman  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:09:49am

re: #624 wozzablog

No can do.
I think it’s a one shot deal.

Besides - even if someone eeks another couple of hundred votes it won’t change their number of delegates.

Iowa delegates can’t be counted upon until shortly before the national nomination. They might be apportioned by percentage of vote now, but as candidates leave the fray, their delegates get horse-traded to other candidates.

Hunstman is already (explain as you may) Perry, hoping to get his delegates now that Perry is dropping out. So in the long run, the individual delegate counts can (and will) change substantially. Gingrich may pass his delegates to Santorum, making Santorum the clear winner.

There is no clear “Winner” in the Iowa caucuses, there are only clear losers, in this case Perry and Bachman.

656 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:10:14am

re: #651 Slumbering Behemoth

So the Weekly Standard is constantly threatening to attack Iran?

How many divisions has the Weekly Standard got?

///sorry. Couldn’t resist.

657 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:11:32am

re: #654 wilburs

No. they won’t be going themselves, they prefer if someone else did it.

So the “where” is Iran, and the “we” is Weekly Standard. Is “Weekly Standard” the nic name for Barack Obama, or Hilary Clinton? I forgot.

658 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:11:35am

re: #652 wilburs

you lost me

Did you know that when David Frum wrote the axis of evil speech, the axis consisted of North Korea and Iraq. It was thought that 2 countries did not really constitute an “axis”, so they through in Iran to make it sound better.

Iran has made dealings with North Korea. There have been ship loaded with weapons intercepted going into Gaza. North Korea is evil. Iran is evil. The Iranian people are good. At least half. The rest are fringe extremists that make Rick Santorum look like a liberal Democrat.

660 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:17:13am

re: #657 Slumbering Behemoth

So the “where” is Iran, and the “we” is Weekly Standard. Is “Weekly Standard” the nic name for Barack Obama, or Hilary Clinton? I forgot.

Hey I have an idea. We should start an atheist club in Iran. Wouldn’t that be like cool?

661 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:18:13am

Oops. No wait. I forgot. If we “think peace” it will come to us through osmosis. Or something. Because love is love and they’ll eventually come to our side through logic! Yes! That always worked in the past.

662 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:18:13am

re: #660 Gus 802

I bet we’d find a lot of time on our hands to just hang around.

663 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:20:13am

re: #652 wilburs

you lost me

Did you know that when David Frum wrote the axis of evil speech, the axis consisted of North Korea and Iraq. It was thought that 2 countries did not really constitute an “axis”, so they through in Iran to make it sound better.

There’s a sort of poetic justice to that, since we took out Iraq, and Bush removed North Korea from the axis as part of a deal, leaving Iran to axis all by itself.

664 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:20:24am

re: #662 Slumbering Behemoth

I bet we’d find a lot of time on our hands to just hang around.

We can tell Dinnerjacket to go fuck himself. Bet that would be cool. Nothing to fear man since all of that stuff the US government say about Iran is all lies! Lies I tell ya. Things are cool there. It’s just that Big Oil, Big Pharma and the Republicans have brainwashed us into thinking that things really suck there. Lies. It’s like North Korea too man. Life is pretty good there. Just like Cuba.

//

665 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:22:02am

Argumentum ad Bush

666 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:24:04am

re: #654 wilburs

Maybe I’m being too sarcastic here. My point is, the Weekly Standard is just a News Corp. rag. It’s not the POTUS or the Secretary of State, and it sure as shit ain’t “we”.

So saying that “we” are constantly threatening to attack Iran is false.

And in case there was any question about it, a sitting governor or former governor blustering about what they’d do with Iran doesn’t count as “we” either.

667 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:25:51am

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw damnit, I wasted the good one. :[

668 Kragar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:29:42am

re: #667 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw damnit, I wasted the good one. :[

You suck.
/

669 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:31:23am

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe I’m being too sarcastic here. My point is, the Weekly Standard is just a News Corp. rag. It’s not the POTUS or the Secretary of State, and it sure as shit ain’t “we”.

So saying that “we” are constantly threatening to attack Iran is false.

And in case there was any question about it, a sitting governor or former governor blustering about what they’d do with Iran doesn’t count as “we” either.

Romney’s just looking for votes. It’s all pretty stupid. He shouldn’t have brought it up. It’s just dumb. The end result is that we get a lot of people on the left freaking out about this. When they should know better in that it’s just old fashioned fear mongering and politicking. The opposite is when the right was saying that Obama wanted to appease the Iranians. A lot of hot air about nothing.

670 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:35:53am

re: #668 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Story time:

Back in the early 90’s I was working the register at this pizza joint, and this couple walks in to order. They look about as normal as any other couple, nice and polite, too. But the dude is wearing a pentegram shirt and a ball cap with 666 on it. Not “ooh, scary satan”, but like they’re his everyday clothes.

Anyway, he goes to write a check and says to his gf “Aw look babe, I’m wasting the good one on a pizza”. He hands it too me, and sure enough it’s check number 666.

But here’s the kicker… His signature is written in capital and lower case letters, but not cursive, and every letter is written backwards, with his name written backwards as well. And he fired that signature off like he’d been doing that way all his life.

671 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:36:06am

But I know. I keep forgetting. We’re all going to die if Obama becomes president. No wait. Too late for that. Wait! If Romney becomes president we’re all gonna die too. But my reason for telling you that you will die if Romney wins is more valid because Romney’s a right winger. In the mean time I have the right wing telling me that I’m going to die because of Obama. Yep. Lots of dying going on.

672 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:37:09am

And Scrotum won’t win.

673 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:37:25am

Oops. I meant Santroum.

674 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:37:33am

//

675 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:38:06am

re: #671 Gus 802

Come to think of it, I have been feeling a bit under the weather lately.
Hmm…

676 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:38:33am

DADT sucked. And Dan Choi is still an idiot. Oh. And Bradley Manning is a weasel.

677 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:39:26am

re: #675 Slumbering Behemoth

Come to think of it, I have been feeling a bit under the weather lately.
Hmm…

Yeah. Atheists kill people!

678 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:40:58am

re: #675 Slumbering Behemoth

Come to think of it, I have been feeling a bit under the weather lately.
Hmm…

Winter sucks. I like climate change since it makes the days warmer. Was supposed to be 60 here today. Didn’t make it. Woops. I made a climate change joke. Guess I’m an axe murderer know!

679 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:41:24am

See. Things like that. You can’t even make jokes. Too weird.

680 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:42:21am

I have blood on my hands. Yep. And Noam Chomsky has blood on his hands for supporting Pol Pot. I don’t give a crap.

681 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:44:47am

Greenwald was a Bushite.

682 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:45:23am

I’m a life long liberal Democrat. Voted for GW in 2004. Also supported the war.

683 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:45:51am

Voted for Carter too. But he also supported the East Timor slaughter.

684 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:49:35am

re: #658 Gus 802

Iran has made dealings with North Korea. There have been ship loaded with weapons intercepted going into Gaza. North Korea is evil. Iran is evil. The Iranian people are good. At least half. The rest are fringe extremists that make Rick Santorum look like a liberal Democrat.

This seems to me an astonishingly simplistic view. I would imagine most of the North Koreans are decent people just woefully ignorant, it is the leadership that is the problem, and they are happy to use an adversarial relationship with the US to their advantage domestically.

I think that your view of the average Iranian is a little dubious as well, This is not some backwards country of religious fanatics, it is a highly educated country with strong ties to the US, and a remarkably favorable view of the US amongst its populace.

The point I was trying to make is that this escalating adversarial relationship does not serve our interests, it empowers extremists on both sides and marginalizes the vast majority of moderate reasonable people.

I just don’t see Iran as it is constantly portrayed, the biggest threat on the planet. Not can I see any chance of them ever using a nuclear weapon, they would be vaporized in 10 minutes.

No one has used nuclear weapons in more then 60 years, but of the countries that have them, India, Pakistan and Israel are far more likely to be drawn into a situation that might escalate to that point. Yet we don’t have the same relationship with those countries. And those are the countries outside the NPT.

685 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:55:22am

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe I’m being too sarcastic here. My point is, the Weekly Standard is just a News Corp. rag. It’s not the POTUS or the Secretary of State, and it sure as shit ain’t “we”.

So saying that “we” are constantly threatening to attack Iran is false.

And in case there was any question about it, a sitting governor or former governor blustering about what they’d do with Iran doesn’t count as “we” either.

Really, maybe the Iranians see Santorum talking about “taking them out” and think otherwise. To us it may seem like idiotic posturing. just as the Iranians see Ahmadinejad as posturing when he says the things we view as threats.

686 boxhead  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:55:37am

re: #683 Gus 802

Voted for Carter too. But he also supported the East Timor slaughter.

Carter is a good person. I think his Presidency was derailed by not good people.

687 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:57:47am

re: #659 Gus 802

Iranian Deputy Chief-of-Staff Brig.-Gen Masoud Jazayeri Calls Upon OWS Movement to Denounce US Threats to Iran and States

Uh-huh.

And doing that is supposed to accomplish what, exactly. e_e

Lol .ir govt

688 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:58:03am

re: #684 wilburs

This seems to me an astonishingly simplistic view. I would imagine most of the North Koreans are decent people just woefully ignorant, it is the leadership that is the problem, and they are happy to use an adversarial relationship with the US to their advantage domestically.

I think that your view of the average Iranian is a little dubious as well, This is not some backwards country of religious fanatics, it is a highly educated country with strong ties to the US, and a remarkably favorable view of the US amongst its populace.

The point I was trying to make is that this escalating adversarial relationship does not serve our interests, it empowers extremists on both sides and marginalizes the vast majority of moderate reasonable people.

I just don’t see Iran as it is constantly portrayed, the biggest threat on the planet. Not can I see any chance of them ever using a nuclear weapon, they would be vaporized in 10 minutes.

No one has used nuclear weapons in more then 60 years, but of the countries that have them, India, Pakistan and Israel are far more likely to be drawn into a situation that might escalate to that point. Yet we don’t have the same relationship with those countries. And those are the countries outside the NPT.

You should at least thank me for inspiring you to write such a long piece. Congratulations, you win the internet. You have proved me wrong and therefore I will go on living. And yes, anyone but Iran will use a nuclear weapon. But yes of course it was obvious from the onset of your complaints that anyone but Iran “would use a nuclear weapon.” Clearly we’re wrong.

689 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:58:40am

re: #685 wilburs

Really, maybe the Iranians see Santorum talking about “taking them out” and think otherwise. To us it may seem like idiotic posturing. just as the Iranians see Ahmadinejad as posturing when he says the things we view as threats.

Difference is, we have a nasty history of bombing the shit out of people when they don’t do as the bloodthirsty among us say.

690 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:59:17am

re: #685 wilburs

The point was your “we” baloney. Ahmadinejad is the president of Iran. Santorum is just a former senator, not the president, and not “we”.

Apples and defective condoms.

691 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 12:59:31am

re: #688 Gus 802

Congratulations, you win the internet.

rotfl

692 justaminute  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:03:58am

Well it’s election time in Iran again. Every one will have to learn to spell a new name. It’s kind of doubtful the Iranian president you all know and love is going to be president again. Sanctions are working. They are cutting a whole heck of a lot of subsidies to the Iranian people. And the Iranian government is sick to their stomach about Syria. Patience is your friend right now.

693 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:04:30am

re: #691 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

rotfl

Hey. I’ve been trying to move on about this. Apparently we’re in stage 3 of a nuclear attack. I already stated that I thought that Romney is basically an idiot. At least I thought I did.

694 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:04:55am

re: #688 Gus 802

You should at least thank me for inspiring you to write such a long piece. Congratulations, you win the internet. You have proved me wrong and therefore I will go on living. And yes, anyone but Iran will use a nuclear weapon. But yes of course it was obvious from the onset of your complaints that anyone but Iran “would use a nuclear weapon.” Clearly we’re wrong.

As the great playwright George Kaufman said:

Sarcasm closes saturday night

695 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:05:36am

re: #694 wilburs

As the great playwright George Kaufman said:

Sarcasm closes saturday night

That I can live with.

696 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:05:56am

re: #658 Gus 802

Iran has made dealings with North Korea. There have been ship loaded with weapons intercepted going into Gaza. North Korea is evil. Iran is evil. The Iranian people are good. At least half. The rest are fringe extremists that make Rick Santorum look like a liberal Democrat.

OT but does it chap anyone else’s hide that Turkey of all places launches those stupid flotillas?

From frickin’ Cypress, wtf.

697 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:06:02am

re: #693 Gus 802

I already stated that I thought that Romney is basically an idiot. At least I thought I did.

Your sin was not using enough invective and derp.
/

698 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:06:24am

re: #693 Gus 802

Hey. I’ve been trying to move on about this. Apparently we’re in stage 3 of a nuclear attack. I already stated that I thought that Romney is basically an idiot. At least I thought I did.

I am going to have to steal that line.

699 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:10:34am

re: #696 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OT but does it chap anyone else’s hide that Turkey of all places launches those stupid flotillas?

From frickin’ Cypress, wtf.

Yeah. And they’re “cool” because they oppose Israel for now. But they also are a bunch of Armenian genocide denialists that keep bombing and oppressing the Kurds.

They’re on the cutting edge.

They don’t deserve EU membership.

700 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:15:24am

re: #690 Slumbering Behemoth

The point was your “we” baloney. Ahmadinejad is the president of Iran. Santorum is just a former senator, not the president, and not “we”.

Apples and defective condoms.

Think back to 2002. Bush never said that he wanted to attack Iraq. But the slowly but surely the the atmosphere was created that this was the only solution. People who tried to point out that this might not be a great idea were marginalized, and groupthink took over.

I see the same situation happening again. where politicians just use Iran as a strawman to knock down and no one has the courage to take a different view, or try to determine our best interests beyond winning another election.

701 wilburs  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:16:16am

re: #695 Gus 802

That I can live with.

good enough for me

702 researchok  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:17:16am

Morning, all

703 researchok  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:17:33am

Two weeks till this contract is over.

I hope I last

704 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:21:36am

re: #700 wilburs

Going back where we started…

re: #633 wilburs

You could say the exact same things about Pakistan and most of the Gulf countries…but we are not threatening to attack them constantly.

re: #657 Slumbering Behemoth

So the “where” is Iran, and the “we” is Weekly Standard. Is “Weekly Standard” the nic name for Barack Obama, or Hilary Clinton? I forgot.

I think you keep moving goal posts on me, but whatever… I’ll just be over here.

705 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:23:49am

re: #699 Gus 802

Yeah. And they’re “cool” because they oppose Israel for now. But they also are a bunch of Armenian genocide denialists that keep bombing and oppressing the Kurds.

They’re on the cutting edge.

They don’t deserve EU membership.

I dealt with that very briefly on my blog when flotillas were the latest place to see and be seen. Their behavior about France has had my ears hot for the past two weeks.

A-holes.

706 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:25:00am

re: #701 wilburs

good enough for me

I can understand your points empirically but I just don’t agree with them on a practical level or as a matter of survival. I am more than open for dialogue but that has to be a two way street. We’re open and we’re here. Point counter point. We’re open for dialogue and waiting for Iran to respond.

707 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:27:59am

Well, I’m tired. Time for me to go usher in a closed dynamic. See y’all laters.

708 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:29:16am

re: #707 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I’m tired. Time for me to go usher in a closed dynamic. See y’all laters.

Later blubber head. //

709 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:30:54am

People will disagree with each other and that’s fine. Happens all the time and that’s cool.

710 boxhead  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 2:23:55am

re: #709 Gus 802

People will disagree with each other and that’s fine. Happens all the time and that’s cool.

Sometimes it is because of deep differences in beliefs, and sometimes it is just for fun, or academic goals… :)

711 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 2:38:31am

If Perry and Bachmann drop out now Santorum becomes front runner, imho.

712 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 2:39:40am

re: #711 wozzablog

If Perry and Bachmann drop out now Santorum becomes front runner, imho.

Gingrich is fawning over Santorum in his losing speech…

713 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 2:39:57am

He is in the midst of a frothing surge.

714 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 3:15:20am

re: #713 ralphieboy

He is in the midst of a frothing surge.

He’s behind Santorum now, evidently.

715 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 3:55:36am

re: #714 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

He’s behind Santorum now, evidently.

So to speak.

716 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:11:40am

Perry says he’s going home to “reassess”.

Hopefully, that’s political speak for STFD & STFU.

717 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:15:05am

Morning folks.

718 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:27:24am

Looks like Romney & Santorum are neck and neck.

719 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:43:40am

re: #718 Alouette

Looks like Romney & Santorum are neck and neck.

Or to put it another way, Romney is up to his neck in Santorum…

720 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:47:59am

re: #718 Alouette

Looks like Romney & Santorum are neck and neck.

Read yesterday that Sanitarium spent the last 100 days in IA. Visited all 99 counties and met thousands of people personally.

You can’t do that in every (or many) state(s).

Just ask Huck.

721 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:49:23am

Hang on to your seats, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

722 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:49:46am

Comparing the vote totals from 2008 and yesterday it looks like the total number of votes is roughly the same. Romneys vote total was almost exactly the same as ‘08. Not sure what that means.

723 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:50:07am

Why is my coffee always cold an hour after I get in to work, even though it is in a thermos?

724 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:50:46am

re: #723 Alouette

Why is my coffee always cold an hour after I get in to work, even though it is in a thermos?

You need a Bodum.

725 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:51:01am

re: #723 Alouette

I’ll bite… Why?

726 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:51:08am

re: #724 Obdicut

You need a Bodum.

What is that?

727 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:52:00am

re: #725 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’ll bite… Why?

I was thinking it must be a crappy thermos, but I have 4 thermos mugs and they’re all like that!

728 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:55:33am

Funny banner’s scrawling across the Des Moines Register homepage. Says, “Maker’s Mark Proudly supporting the Cocktail Party.”

729 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:56:50am

re: #724 Obdicut

You need a Bodum.

‘Morning, all

We use a Thermos (Nissan) stainless steel French press, but even then we move any leftover to a glass-walled vacuum pump pot.

730 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:57:45am

re: #726 Alouette

What is that?

A very well-made brand of glassware that my wife swears by.

[Link: www.bodum.com…]

731 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:58:09am

re: #729 Decatur Deb

I love Bodum stuff, both on a design and functionality level.

732 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:58:11am

re: #723 Alouette

Why is my coffee always cold an hour after I get in to work, even though it is in a thermos?

Try one trick: warm the inside of the thermos up with warm water before putting the coffee in, that helps keep it warm longer.

733 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:58:50am

re: #723 Alouette

Why is my coffee always cold an hour after I get in to work, even though it is in a thermos?

Your vacuum liner might have leaked air (let all the vacuum out). Or you might be suffering for the sins of the Yankees.

734 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 4:59:51am

re: #731 Obdicut

I love Bodum stuff, both on a design and functionality level.

We had one of pyrex glass, but it did lose heat fast. Answer is make-as-you-drink, I guess.

735 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:00:18am

re: #30 moderatelyradicalliberal

An obfuscation that he gets away with because his supporters on the left and right are stupid. Ron Paul would be perfectly fine with states resegregating schools or banning narcotics. He would be fine with businesses not hiring people based on race or an individual not renting a property to people because they are gay. What he doesn’t want is for the feds to regulate intestate commerce (which they have a constitutional right to do) or protect people from discrimination based on the 14th Amendment. For Paul there is only one bully, the federal government. All of the other entities that can and do bully people should be free to do so. When states, business and individuals do it, it’s not bullying, it’s freedom and liberty. His supporters don’t see it because their too busy listening to nonsense about pot and no more wars.

Also if he gets into the white house the Gulf states and states that are in tornado prone areas better start saving money for the day that their area gets hammered by one (or more) of these natural disasters, as Luap Nor will also do away with FEMA.

So under Luap Nor there will be no EPA, FEMA, DEA, FDA, and a laundry list of other letter agencies that he would have gone from the fed gov. I’m sure he doesn’t like law suits against companies so that would have to go. So basically you will be under the dictate of the monied and business factions of the state you live in.

Do I have that about right?

736 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:02:13am

re: #732 ralphieboy

Try one trick: warm the inside of the thermos up with warm water before putting the coffee in, that helps keep it warm longer.

Oh yeah.

737 Flounder  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:02:36am

re: #723 Alouette

I have had good luck at Target for mugs that are vacuum sealed.
[Link: www.target.com…]
I have and like the Contigo extreme mug, senja stainless steel mug and the contigo west loop mug. After an hour, my coffee is still hot.

738 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:02:54am

re: #734 Decatur Deb

We had one of pyrex glass, but it did lose heat fast. Answer is make-as-you-drink, I guess.

My wife says hers survives the 1/2 hour walk to work in the cold and still remains piping hot.

I work from home, so my coffee is always hot.

739 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:06:16am

After traveling from Detroit to NY and taking coffee all along the way, Zedushka and I have decided that the best coffee is made by:

Wawa!

Dunkin Donuts coffee is way overrated.

Worst coffee: at the Quality Inn where we spent the night.

740 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:07:42am

re: #738 Obdicut

My wife says hers survives the 1/2 hour walk to work in the cold and still remains piping hot.

I work from home, so my coffee is always hot.

Ah—must be a Bodum vacuum flask. The only Bodum around here is the single-thickness French press. We have a Lexan press with a neoprene jacket that we only use for camping roughhouse. (“Camping with Niles and Frasier”)

741 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:09:16am

re: #740 Decatur Deb

Ah—must be a Bodum vacuum flask. The only Bodum around here is the single-thickness French press. We have a Lexan press with a neoprene jacket that we only use for camping roughhouse. (“Camping with Niles and Frasier”)

To me “camping roughhouse” means packing the instant coffee…

742 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:09:41am

The sun is hitting the hoophouse skin—got to open it before all the veggies melt. BBIAB.

743 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:10:27am

re: #739 Alouette

I was surprised by McDonalds coffee a few weeks back.

And Quality Inns in general should be sued for their name; just on principal.

744 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:10:33am

Latte, Jed?

745 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:11:22am

re: #741 ralphieboy

To me “camping roughhouse” means packing the instant coffee…

“Instant coffee”? Isn’t that the stuff in MRE’s? Moves from “camping” to”field exercise”.

746 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:12:45am

Why the fuck is Matt Lauer talking to that windbag Trump?

Just looked up and noticed it.

I want to make love to my mute button right now, I love it so much.

(Did I just type that out loud?)

747 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:13:33am

re: #743 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was surprised by McDonalds coffee a few weeks back.

And Quality Inns in general should be sued for their name; just on principal.

The QI in Clarion, PA where we stopped for the night, both ways, was very nice and reasonably priced. They had an old fashioned TV but a fridge in the room and free internet. The free coffee sucked.

The same accommodations in NY would probably cost $200/night.

748 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:15:46am

Morning Lizardim. We’re having a heat wave here in the wild north country - an unseasonably warm January. Now that I say that, of course, the arctic air will be blowing in any time now. What have I missed?

749 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:19:10am

re: #747 Alouette

My company put me in the same Quality Inn three times in three weeks.

1st night? Room had no curtains (was next to a McDonalds) so I had to try to sleep with a gazillion candlepower of light pouring into my room.
2nd night? Internet was down in the hotel.
3rd night? The room key system was down; someone from the front desk had to accompany you to your room each time you would return. So, three times I had to wait for over ten minutes for someone to be available to do so.

I’ve stayed in two very nice Quality Inns. The rest? Not so much.

750 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:23:24am

re: #748 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. We’re having a heat wave here in the wild north country - an unseasonably warm January. Now that I say that, of course, the arctic air will be blowing in any time now. What have I missed?

Baja Alabama got 19f last night. The hoophouse kept internal temp of 29f, but some of the veggies look unhappy.

751 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:25:03am

re: #750 Decatur Deb

Baja Alabama got 19f last night. The hoophouse kept internal temp of 29f, but some of the veggies look unhappy.

It’s actually supposed to break above freezing a few days this week. I’m a bit taken aback. Usually by this point of the year, we’re lucky if we’re in the single digits (degrees F; somewhere north of -20 degrees C).

752 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:25:54am

re: #749 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When I worked at conventions I’d get a very fancy hotel room because they’re so draining. There’s only two big ones a year for gaming so it was worth it.

One of them had the best thing ever. From midnight until five AM, they had room service only for special requests— very expensive. But for free, there’s a “Raid the Larder” feature, with a little kitchen stocked with bread, cold cuts, cheese, fruits and veggies, condiments, lettuce, onions, tomatoes, some knishes, a little mini-deli. And you can just take what you want, make yourself a sandwich or grab a banana. And you mix shoulders with some other guests and meet them in a nice unguarded moment.

Ever since then, I’ve always considered that a must-have in any luxury hotel.

753 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:27:22am

re: #751 thedopefishlives

It’s actually supposed to break above freezing a few days this week. I’m a bit taken aback. Usually by this point of the year, we’re lucky if we’re in the single digits (degrees F; somewhere north of -20 degrees C).

(Adds Minnesota to list of stay-aways.)

754 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:27:40am

There’s a hotel in Covington, VA…(30 miles from The Homestead) called “COMPARE INN”.

The “PARE” letters are not the same color yellow as the COM letters.

They changed the name from Comfort Inn to Compare Inn so they’d only have to buy four letters for their sign.

I shit you not.

And no… I haven’t stayed there.

755 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:28:27am

re: #753 Decatur Deb

(Adds Minnesota to list of stay-aways.)

Aw, come on. We only had maybe 3 days last year where it got down to -40 at night.

756 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:30:01am

re: #755 thedopefishlives

Aw, come on. We only had maybe 3 days last year where it got down to -40 at night.

We got to that one weekend when we lived in KY. Some friends at our party had to stay for days—frozen old cars.

757 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:32:35am

re: #756 Decatur Deb

We got to that one weekend when we lived in KY. Some friends at our party had to stay for days—frozen old cars.

I had to make sure I started and ran both of our vehicles for at least 10 minutes every day, or we wouldn’t have enough battery energy left to start them the next day.

758 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:33:45am

re: #757 thedopefishlives

I had to make sure I started and ran both of our vehicles for at least 10 minutes every day, or we wouldn’t have enough battery energy left to start them the next day.

Do they still make the dipstick resistance heaters to keep the oil warm?

759 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:35:29am

re: #739 Alouette

After traveling from Detroit to NY and taking coffee all along the way, Zedushka and I have decided that the best coffee is made by:

Wawa!

Dunkin Donuts coffee is way overrated.

Worst coffee: at the Quality Inn where we spent the night.

Dunkin donuts won its rep because it did one of the small things right. It was mandatory that the carafes be washed every time between brewings. The lack of the older oil from previous batches made a difference.

It’s why my rule one for good coffee is “clean”.

760 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:35:38am

re: #749 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My company put me in the same Quality Inn three times in three weeks.

1st night? Room had no curtains (was next to a McDonalds) so I had to try to sleep with a gazillion candlepower of light pouring into my room.
2nd night? Internet was down in the hotel.
3rd night? The room key system was down; someone from the front desk had to accompany you to your room each time you would return. So, three times I had to wait for over ten minutes for someone to be available to do so.

I’ve stayed in two very nice Quality Inns. The rest? Not so much.

Where was this QI located? The one that we stayed at in PA was so nice, we stayed at the same one on the way back. Just at the halfway point of our drive. There are not much attractions in Clarion, PA, the only people who stay there are just travelers off the 80. No truckers as there is no place to park their rigs.

761 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:36:28am

A music minister friend of mine posted “Sing to the lord a new song” on FB… I added… “that was written in 1751”…

762 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:37:02am

re: #758 Decatur Deb

Do they still make the dipstick resistance heaters to keep the oil warm?

They probably do, but up here, that kind of cold is so rare that you don’t really need it. Although I do have to plug in the block heater on my little diesel car periodically.

763 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:38:20am

re: #759 kirkspencer

Dunkin donuts won its rep because it did one of the small things right. It was mandatory that the carafes be washed every time between brewings. The lack of the older oil from previous batches made a difference.

It’s why my rule one for good coffee is “clean”.

I didn’t like the DD because it didn’t have much of a taste. Starbucks OTOH is way too strong. Wawa, got it perfect, delicious taste and stayed hot for hours.

We also bought coffee at a Gio’s service station near Du Bois that was pretty good.

764 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:38:35am

re: #760 Alouette

Beckley, WV. On the bright side? They have a filthy cheap bar where you can smoke inside.

765 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:42:43am

re: #764 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Beckley, WV. On the bright side? They have a filthy cheap bar where you can smoke inside.

Heh. The stranded friends from #756 live on a hill in Beckley. It’s, like, synchronicity man.

766 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:42:48am

re: #764 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Beckley, WV. On the bright side? They have a filthy cheap bar where you can smoke inside.

Overheard the bar owner (300lb 50 year old woman) complain “my old man can’t eat p****y worth a shit!” to a male customer (not me).

Like a charming B&B, no?

767 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:45:36am

re: #765 Decatur Deb

Heh. The stranded friends from #756 live on a hill in Beckley. It’s, like, synchronicity man.

If someone lives in Beckley? They live on a hill.

768 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:46:26am

re: #764 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Beckley, WV. On the bright side? They have a filthy cheap bar where you can smoke inside.

For our stay in NY, we rented an apartment for $80/night. One bedroom, living room, kitchenette. Very reasonable, comfortable and clean considering what even a crappy hotel room in NY costs.

The best thing: there are all kinds of kosher delis, dairy restaurants, sushi bars that DELIVER! The worst thing: parking. Gah. I was driving slowly around the block with my hazard lights on. Another driver came up alongside me, saw the blinkers, saw the out-of-state license plate, asked “Are you in trouble?” (A New Yorker stopping to offer assistance! That’s gotta be a first!) I said “I’m just looking for a parking space.”

Then I actually found a primo parking spot right next to the building, such that Zedushka preferred to walk to my daughter’s engagement party two and a half blocks in the pouring rain rather than give up that spot and then drive around and around to find another spot.

769 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:46:29am

re: #767 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So what’s in between the hills?

Just more hills?

770 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:47:48am

re: #768 Alouette

I’ve actually found New Yorkers very helpful. They can be brusque and straightforward as hell, but I’ve gotten better directions in this city than anywhere else.

771 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:48:46am

re: #769 Obdicut

So what’s in between the hills?

Just more hills?

Nobody knows. You don’t go down there.

772 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:49:05am

re: #767 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If someone lives in Beckley? They live on a hill.

They have 70 acres of reclaimed wooded junkyard. Over 30 years they have built a beautiful house, by hand, without going into debt—old Mother Earth Newsers. (They had an indoor composting toilet in the 70s.)

773 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:50:12am

re: #758 Decatur Deb

Do they still make the dipstick resistance heaters to keep the oil warm?

My buddy moved to Finland, the parking lot in his apartment complex has electric outlets at each space so you can plug in your engine block heater.

774 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:50:14am

re: #769 Obdicut

So what’s in between the hills?

Just more hills?

Stuff that rolled off the hills.

775 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:53:37am

re: #770 Obdicut

I’ve actually found New Yorkers very helpful. They can be brusque and straightforward as hell, but I’ve gotten better directions in this city than anywhere else.

I hate driving in New York. Hate it! I would rather drive on the I-80 in a blinding blizzard with 18-wheelers all around me than drive in New York City. I let Zedushka do all the driving while we were in the city. That Ford option that does automatic parallel parking would have been nice to have.

776 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:55:03am

re: #775 Alouette

That Ford option that does automatic parallel parking would have been nice to have.

I go for the option involving tank treads that simply crush a parking spot for you…

777 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:55:03am

re: #764 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Beckley, WV. On the bright side? They have a filthy cheap bar where you can smoke inside.

I got a call yesterday about doing a job in Beckley. Sounds like my kind of bar.

778 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:55:30am

re: #775 Alouette

I hate driving in New York. Hate it! I would rather drive on the I-80 in a blinding blizzard with 18-wheelers all around me than drive in New York City. I let Zedushka do all the driving while we were in the city. That Ford option that does automatic parallel parking would have been nice to have.

You’re supposed to park in Jersey and take the PATH train.

779 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 5:58:12am

re: #769 Obdicut

So what’s in between the hills?

Just more hills?

She walked along the jagged ridge
Looked as far as she could see
The hills out there so up and own
She could only see as far as the next big ridge.
-Bruce Hornsby, The Road Not Taken

(That’s from memory, but it’s close)

(Fantastic song, BTW)

780 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:00:52am

re: #776 ralphieboy

I go for the option involving tank treads that simply crush a parking spot for you…

That might be a nice feature on the F-150, but wouldn’t work too well on a Focus.

781 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:02:52am

Tea Party organizer now using the “Occupy” brand…

Occupy The Gas Tax Rallies To Be Held Saturday

American’s For Prosperity plans to protest Governor Martin O’Malley’s proposed 15 cent a gallon gas tax increase with rallies at three busy Baltimore County intersections this Saturday.

The groups Baltimore chapter co-chair, Steve Bailey says “this is one of those rare occasions where a politician proposes something so incredibly outrageous that it unites both the left and the right against it.”

Heh.

782 Flounder  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:03:22am

Yeah, we do this shit for fun in upstate NY
[Link: poststar.com…]

783 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:05:53am

re: #782 Shropshire_Slasher

Yeah, we do this shit for fun in upstate NY
[Link: poststar.com…]

When their testicles descend, there are only 6 more weeks of Winter.

784 Flounder  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:07:40am

re: #783 Decatur Deb

I WAS IN THE POOL!

785 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:17:19am

re: #781 Killgore Trout

Kilgore, I think you will find this video page interesting. In upside down world, air is just like water…

786 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:19:51am

re: #785 Rightwingconspirator

Kilgore, I think you will find this video page interesting. In upside down world, air is just like water…

Very cool!

787 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:24:49am
Frank says:

You’ve got to be digging it while it’s happening
‘cause it just might be a one shot deal

Good morning lizards!

788 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:26:35am

15F this morning in Philly. The Brazilians are taking it well though this is the coldest outside some of them have ever seen in their lives.

Nice and clear currently. Reminds me of growing up in northern New York state.

789 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:26:45am

Man arrested on hate crime charge in firebomb attack at NYC Islamic cultural center

NEW YORK — A man who confessed to a string of New Year’s Day arson attacks at an Islamic cultural center and four other sites where he had personal grievances was arrested on a hate crime charge, police said.

Ray Lazier Lengend, a 40-year-old of Guyanese descent, hurled crude firebombs at the Islamic center in part because he wasn’t allowed to use its bathrooms, a law enforcement official said.

Lengend was tracked through a stolen car with Virginia license plates believed to be at the scene of at least two of the attacks Sunday evening on a convenience store, three homes and the cultural center, police said. He was arrested Tuesday on charges including one count of arson as a hate crime, four counts of arson and five counts of criminal possession of a weapon, they said.

Lengend, who lives in Queens, was taken to a hospital for a psychiatric examination Tuesday night. He remained in custody and couldn’t be reached for comment. A man who answered a telephone call at Lengend’s home said he would not give out any information over the phone and hung up. There was no information on whether Lengend had a lawyer.

790 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:30:19am

re: #789 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder where the “hate crime” addition came from. Looks like he hated the people who wouldn’t let him steal or use the bathroom…..

791 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:30:35am

re: #788 oaktree

15F this morning in Philly. The Brazilians are taking it well though this is the coldest outside some of them have ever seen in their lives.

Nice and clear currently. Reminds me of growing up in northern New York state.

We have a decent population of Indian tech workers here in the wild north country. They are absolutely miserable in the frigid cold of the northern winter. They come in to the office all bundled to the hilt in heavy winter wear, and then you see the pasty white Nordic folk strolling around on the streets in hoodies and shorts.

792 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:34:49am

Apparent Occupy protesters greet Paul at event, shouting compliments

At a Monday event in Iowa, Texas Rep. Ron Paul and his son, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, were greeted at the Steeplegate Inn in Davenport with a trademark “Occupy” mic check.

“Mic Check” said one attendee loudly, as the GOP presidential candidate made his way to the podium. In the movement’s call-and-response pattern, others shouted back, “Mic check.”

But rather than belittle the to-be speakers with lethargic policy jibes, as has been done to other GOP presidential candidates, the attendees belted out compliments.

“Thank you, Dr. Paul, thank you for opposing the indefinite detention of Americans!” they shouted.

“Thank you for opposing the Wall Street bailouts!” they added.

And before respectfully quieting down for the speakers, the chant leader shouted, “Thank you for opposing unnecessary wars!”

It is unclear if these attendees were in fact “Occupy” protesters, Paul supporters who wanted to creatively vocalize their support, or both. In the early days of the Occupy Wall Street protests, Paul supporters were notable participants.

Heh.

793 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:35:48am

Morning Honcos.

794 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:38:25am

re: #785 Rightwingconspirator

Kilgore, I think you will find this video page interesting. In upside down world, air is just like water…

Brilliant.

795 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:39:26am

White House Denies CIA Teleported Obama to Mars

Forget Kenya. Never mind the secret madrassas. The sinister, shocking truth about Barack Obama’s past lies not in east Africa, but in outer space. As a young man in the early 1980s, Obama was part of a secret CIA project to explore Mars. The future president teleported there, along with the future head of Darpa.

That’s the assertion, at least, of a pair of self-proclaimed time-traveling, universe-exploring government agents. Andrew D. Basiago and William Stillings insist that they once served as “chrononauts” at Darpa’s behest, traversing the boundaries of time and space. They swear: A youthful Barack Obama was one of them.

…According to Basiago and Stillings, Obama isn’t just lying about his identity. He’s lying about his military service record, too. While his political opponents in 2008 attacked him for never serving, in truth, he was concealing his participation in a hidden CIA intergalactic program hosted at a California community college in 1980.

Officially, the White House says Obama never went to Mars. “Only if you count watching Marvin the Martian,” Tommy Vietor, the spokesman for the National Security Council, tells Danger Room. But that’s exactly what a secret chrononaut wants you to believe.

Obama wasn’t the only one making the otherworldly voyage. As “Barry Soetero,” the 19-year-old Obama was one of 10 youths selected to secretly teleport to and from Mars, forming a band of interplanetary Teen Titans. Regina Dugan, the director of Darpa, was another member.

Between 1981 and 1983, Obama is supposed to have visited Mars twice, by way of a teleportation chamber called a “jump room.” Basiago, a fellow chrononaut, told the website Exopolitics that he saw Obama “walk back to the jump room from across the Martian terrain.” To acknowledge his comrade, Obama is said to have told Basiago, “We’re here” — apparently, “with some sense of fatalism.”

It is not known what exactly Obama did on Mars. (Socializing Martian health care, perhaps? Building a birth-certificate printing press?) His mission was a perilous one, according to Basiago and Stillings. The CIA wished to “establish a defense regime protecting the Earth from threats from space” as well as a legal claim to “territorial sovereignty,” making Obama something of a Martian conquistador. Presumably, Obama’s CIA handlers needed him to “acclimate Martian humanoids and animals to their presence” in order to secure the U.S.-Martian alliance. (We’ll bet you weren’t even aware of Martian animals.)

ROFMAO!

796 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:40:53am
797 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:41:47am

re: #791 thedopefishlives

We have a decent population of Indian tech workers here in the wild north country. They are absolutely miserable in the frigid cold of the northern winter. They come in to the office all bundled to the hilt in heavy winter wear, and then you see the pasty white Nordic folk strolling around on the streets in hoodies and shorts.

Yep.

And I’m sure there were Malaysians saying “Look at the pasty white guy melting in the this pleasant heat and humidity” when I was in KL last July.

:)

Turnabout is fair play.

My KL-born SIL has adapted to some degree to the winter up in Rochester (NY, not MN), but still wants rooms and offices heated hotter than her husband prefers.

798 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:44:53am

re: #795 NJDhockeyfan

White House Denies CIA Teleported Obama to Mars

ROFMAO!

In a better time, that would inspire mockery—now it gets you a History Channel investigative report.

799 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:48:33am

re: #502 Dark_Falcon

They’ll end up at the bottom of said strait and will not come back except as salvage.

I’m sure Baghdad Bob and Saddam said that too when they were fighting them.

800 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:49:12am

re: #798 Decatur Deb

In a better time, that would inspire mockery—now it gets you a History Channel investigative report.

I joked to a friend of mine that I’d like to see the Military or History Channel do a “No Hitler Week” where all their programming for 7 days couldn’t have any mention of Hitler. then I realized that they probably didn’t have enough programs on file to actually pull that off.

801 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:50:10am

re: #800 oaktree

I joked to a friend of mine that I’d like to see the Military or History Channel do a “No Hitler Week” where all their programming for 7 days couldn’t have any mention of Hitler. then I realized that they probably didn’t have enough programs on file to actually pull that off.

Hitler usually dies by the end of the week.

802 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:51:12am

re: #801 NJDhockeyfan

Hitler usually dies by the end of the week.

But Nostrodamus goes on forever.

803 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:51:13am

Speaking of pasty Nordic folk, my daughter’s fiancé is a real Anglo-Saxon looking gent. All my daughters have chosen blond, blue-eyed, Aryan/Viking/Anglo-Saxon looking men.

Meanwhile my son married a woman who would make you question the notion that Jews are white people.

804 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:53:40am

re: #803 Alouette

Speaking of pasty Nordic folk, my daughter’s fiancé is a real Anglo-Saxon looking gent. All my daughters have chosen blond, blue-eyed, Aryan/Viking/Anglo-Saxon looking men.

Meanwhile my son married a woman who would make you question the notion that Jews are white people.

How key is it in all this that they don’t end up living in your basement?

:)

805 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:53:49am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I see that Santorum lost to Romney by all of eight votes. Not bad for a guy who was seen as too extreme for PA when he was booted by his constituents from the US Senate. Now, he’s probably not extreme enough for the Iowa voters but will have his moment in the sun as the anyone but Romney candidate de jour. Meanwhile, Romney probably wasn’t extreme enough for Iowa voters, who found themselves splitting their votes for everyone else, rather than giving a thumbs up for Romney who actually spent more money in 2012 than 2008 to lose votes over the 2008 numbers.

Still, all is not completely lost. Perry may have been battered into his senses and will likely drop out in the next few days. Bachmann, whose senses are extraterrestrial, wont have the good sense to drop out, even though her chances remain on the other side of nil (but will at least make for some entertainment value). Gingrich has vowed to stick around - and to stick it to Romney who he despises. That too will be for entertainment value, but Gingrich went from being a contender to also-ran in record time, if you don’t count Herman Cain or Rick Perry.

And then there’s the crazy uncle, Ron Paul, who will claim he got the youth vote and his 3d place showing will somehow be proof that he’s got momentum. Alas, we’ve seen that from Paul before, and Iowa will be his high water mark (not counting VA, where only Romney and Paul are on the ballot).

The race is Romney’s to lose, and he’s done just enough to not lose so far. But he hasn’t done enough to win either. There’s little enthusiasm, and his negatives are starting to show in a big way. The extremists in the GOP are continuing to tout other candidates who are pushing the right wing extremist agenda envelope, and that works against Romney, who has struggled to stay consistent (I know, wild understatement there - he’s flip flopping in the breeze) in the hopes of trying to peel off independents and moderates in the general election. But trying to appeal to moderates wont work when the GOP primaries is all about catering to the extremists in the party, and that works no where better than in places like Iowa.

806 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:54:02am

re: #803 Alouette

My mom is a blonde, blue-eyed Sephardic Jew. She tans like me, to a levantine brown, but we both stay out of the sun so we’re very pale.

807 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:55:35am

re: #804 oaktree

How key is it in all this that they don’t end up living in your basement?

:)

They are welcome to live in my basement if they want to. That’s why none of them want to. (The fact that we had a sewage flood down there is another reason) :)

808 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:56:26am

re: #806 Obdicut

My mom is a blonde, blue-eyed Sephardic Jew. She tans like me, to a levantine brown, but we both stay out of the sun so we’re very pale.

I have met some Ginger Sephardim.

809 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 6:59:08am

re: #805 lawhawk

As I said last night, watch South Carolina.

If Romney walks away with it there, it’s all over but the shouting.

If Romney wins with a squeaker, he’ll pull a McCain and be the obvious winner after Super Tuesday.

If Romney loses, we’re going to see a long race with both sides going even worse than they are now. In that case I suggest watching Florida as the followon. Whichever of the two (Romney and SC’s ABR) wins Florida is the likely nominee once the dust settles. Caveat to this: if Paul can sustain greater than 10% through Florida AND there is another ABR, I think we’ll go to the convention to get this settled with Paul being the kingmaker. Low probability but I admit to hoping…

810 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:03:39am

re: #803 Alouette

Speaking of pasty Nordic folk, my daughter’s fiancé is a real Anglo-Saxon looking gent. All my daughters have chosen blond, blue-eyed, Aryan/Viking/Anglo-Saxon looking men.

Meanwhile my son married a woman who would make you question the notion that Jews are white people.

My wife’s family has a similar situation. All of the daughters have long since been married, to men of more or less Caucasian stock. The oldest brother, however, selected a lovely black girl for his bride. To say it’s a bit of a culture shock would be an understatement, though thankfully, the family has been completely accepting and absent of any racist overtones.

811 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:05:09am

re: #809 kirkspencer

As I said last night, watch South Carolina.

If Romney walks away with it there, it’s all over but the shouting.

If Romney wins with a squeaker, he’ll pull a McCain and be the obvious winner after Super Tuesday.

The only way this is going to carry on after Super Tuesday (with any degree of uncertainty) is if Perry, Bachmann and Gingrich all line up behind Santorum and do so early enough in the process that Santorum can contend in SC. The religious conservatives cannot split their votes up. Looks like Bachmann and Perry will do so today or tomorrow. But I think Newt will fuck it up for them.

812 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:06:56am

re: #810 thedopefishlives

My wife’s family has a similar situation. All of the daughters have long since been married, to men of more or less Caucasian stock. The oldest brother, however, selected a lovely black girl for his bride. To say it’s a bit of a culture shock would be an understatement, though thankfully, the family has been completely accepting and absent of any racist overtones.

Mixing up the gene pool is good for everyone in the long run, physically and spiritually in my opinion. It can make for some strange moments in the short term, but I really believe long term it has substantial benefits.

813 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:09:29am

re: #806 Obdicut

My mom is a blonde, blue-eyed Sephardic Jew. She tans like me, to a levantine brown, but we both stay out of the sun so we’re very pale.

Is your mom’s family from Syria? Never quite understood it but there was a large blonde blue eyed Jewish population in Syria.

814 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:12:31am

re: #811 Petero1818

The only way this is going to carry on after Super Tuesday (with any degree of uncertainty) is if Perry, Bachmann and Gingrich all line up behind Santorum and do so early enough in the process that Santorum can contend in SC. The religious conservatives cannot split their votes up. Looks like Bachmann and Perry will do so today or tomorrow. But I think Newt will fuck it up for them.

Obviously disagree. The main thing to note is that Gingrich essentially said last night he’s going to be a bomb-thrower - not to win it, but to ensure Romney doesn’t. I expect him to start doing this tomorrow, maybe today. I don’t think it’ll have any effect for New Hampshire, or at least not enough to matter.

South Carolina is the key. Can Romney’s positives be dragged down enough by Gingrich AND Santorum’s positives increased enough by Perry (and maybe Bachmann) to turn this into a race? We’ll know if Santorum wins (or comes very close) in South Carolina. We’ll get confirmation either way with Florida.

If Santorum can win one and hold close or win with the other it will go past Super Tuesday.

Thing is, Santorum’s the flavor of the month. He’s about to undergo the same scrutiny that crashed the previous FotM ABRs, and I don’t think he’s going to look any better. His sole point of survival at this point is that he’s all that’s left of the ABRs. (Huntsman, in my opinion, is Romney 2.0. Much improved, but carrying most of the same baggage. He’s not an ABR. Johnson and the rest are “who?” candidates.)

815 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:12:47am

re: #813 Petero1818

Is your mom’s family from Syria? Never quite understood it but there was a large blonde blue eyed Jewish population in Syria.

Half of them were from New Amsterdam by way of Spain, the other half were crypto-Jews and slaves in the New World by way of Portugal, and assumedly both Spain and Portugal were by way of North Africa. Some Sephards fled to Syria after the expulsion from Spain, so that’s probably where the blonde Jews in Syria came from.

816 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:17:25am

re: #813 Petero1818

Is your mom’s family from Syria? Never quite understood it but there was a large blonde blue eyed Jewish population in Syria.

I think Alexander the Great and his band of merry men are responsible. They actually made it as far as India, spreading their European genetics all along the way.

817 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:17:27am

Edited: That’s where the blonde Jews in Syria come from, probably. There are plenty of Mizrahi Jews that have been there since time immemorial.

818 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:21:29am

re: #816 Killgore Trout


He didn’t really hang out there much. He passed on through on his way to Persia, where he got really native.

There was also all those crusaders who came through and raped a lot. That’s a lot more European genetics.

819 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:21:51am

re: #814 kirkspencer

I guess where we differ, is I believe Gingrich can do the same from outside the race. If he stays in the race, he presents an alternative to Santorum for the wingnuts. Even if he is helping make Romney look bad I believe he will continue to draw from Santorum’s potential voters. You are right about one thing. we will know after SC.

820 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:23:50am

Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It’s Okay to Shoot

A young Oklahoma mother shot and killed an intruder to protect her 3-month-old baby on New Year’s Eve, less than a week after the baby’s father died of cancer.

Sarah McKinley says that a week earlier a man named Justin Martin dropped by on the day of her husband’s funeral, claiming that he was a neighbor who wanted to say hello. The 18-year-old Oklahoma City area woman did not let him into her home that day.

On New Year’s Eve Martin returned with another man, Dustin Stewart, and this time was armed with a 12-inch hunting knife. The two soon began trying to break into McKinley’s home.

As one of the men was going from door to door outside her home trying to gain entry, McKinley called 911 and grabbed her 12-gauge shotgun.

McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO that she quickly got her 12 gauge, went into her bedroom and got a pistol, put the bottle in the baby’s mouth and called 911.

“I’ve got two guns in my hand — is it okay to shoot him if he comes in this door?” the young mother asked the 911 dispatcher. “I’m here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?”

The 911 dispatcher confirmed with McKinley that the doors to her home were locked as she asked again if it was okay to shoot the intruder if he were to come through her door.

“I can’t tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby,” the dispatcher told her. McKinley was on the phone with 911 for a total of 21 minutes.

When Martin kicked in the door and came after her with the knife, the teen mom shot and killed the 24-year-old. Police are calling the shooting justified.

821 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:24:07am

re: #818 Obdicut

There was also all those crusaders who came through and raped a lot. That’s a lot more European genetics.

They were a pretty rapey bunch.

822 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:25:40am

re: #816 Killgore Trout

I think Alexander the Great and his band of merry men are responsible. They actually made it as far as India, spreading their European genetics all along the way.

And isn’t that set of genetics essentially steppe “Germanic” tribes that went west and then came back east so to speak. I recall reading somewhere that the Mongols and such were possibly blue-eyed and very “Aryan” before they conquered China.
(Though I’d take that now with a grain of salt since I can’t recall the source and it’s possibly old or heavily contaminated with someone’s racial theories.)

823 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:26:07am

re: #819 Petero1818

I guess where we differ, is I believe Gingrich can do the same from outside the race. If he stays in the race, he presents an alternative to Santorum for the wingnuts. Even if he is helping make Romney look bad I believe he will continue to draw from Santorum’s potential voters. You are right about one thing. we will know after SC.

I think Gingrich is thinking that he will get the ear of reporters only as long as he’s still in the race. Jump out and nobody will listen.

You are right about the risk, of course. And there’s no doubt part of Gingrich’s calculation includes checking next door to see what his ego wants.

824 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:26:31am
825 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:28:04am

re: #820 NJDhockeyfan

I read that the other day. She’s lucky she had a gun in the house. In IN though, she wouldn’t have had to wait for them to kick her door in before she was allowed to defend herself. OK needs to take a look at that, once they’re in the house any number of bad things can happen.

826 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:28:38am

re: #818 Obdicut

He didn’t really hang out there much. He passed on through on his way to Persia, where he got really native.

There was also all those crusaders who came through and raped a lot. That’s a lot more European genetics.

Nobody wants to admit there is rapey stabby in their family tree.

My future son-in-law’s mom is a convert, so that’s where those Anglo-Saxon genes come from.

827 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:29:45am

re: #822 oaktree

And isn’t that set of genetics essentially steppe “Germanic” tribes that went west and then came back east so to speak. I recall reading somewhere that the Mongols and such were possibly blue-eyed and very “Aryan” before they conquered China.
(Though I’d take that now with a grain of salt since I can’t recall the source and it’s possibly old or heavily contaminated with someone’s racial theories.)

What % of Europeans/Eurasians have Genghis Khan’s DNA?

828 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:31:47am

re: #826 Alouette

Nobody wants to admit there is rapey stabby in their family tree.

They don’t want to admit it, but the thing is, pretty much everybody has at least one. It’s just how people work.

829 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:36:32am

re: #827 Alouette

What % of Europeans/Eurasians have Genghis Khan’s DNA?

1 in 200 men.

[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com…]

Along with that predilection for wearing furry hats.

830 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:39:10am

Okay…the video is worth watching on this…Cooper was definitely not into Blitzer’s Weebles…
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

CNN has become famous (or infamous) for hauling out a bevy of touchscreens, magic walls, computer simulations and — in its most notorious move — even holograms of its own reporters. On Tuesday night, Wolf Blitzer proudly unveiled the network’s newest way to explain how a caucus actually works: a group of small, faceless CGI blobs that Cooper called “Weebles” in a reference to the egg-shaped children’s toys.

Cooper seemed two seconds away from rolling his eyes at any moment. As Blitzer finished up his tour of the blobs and their movements, he said, “If you miss any of this you can see it later on ‘The Daily Show’ with Jon Stewart when he ruthlessly mocks you.”

“Pretty cool, don’t you think?” Blitzer said.

“Uh…yes!” Cooper said hesitatingly. “I hope the Weebles are going to show up throughout the evening.”

831 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:42:52am

Yikes! The Iowa caucasions nearly gave their nod to the Unelectable Foamy one, with Mitt the Inevitable pulling it out by EIGHT whole votes. Newt continues to fade, though, which demonstrates some moral awareness among the caucasoids, inadequate and feeble though it is.

832 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:43:16am

re: #829 oaktree

1 in 200 men.

[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com…]

Along with that predilection for wearing furry hats.

These guys are all descendants of Genghis Khan? Cool!

833 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:45:45am

re: #832 Alouette

These guys are all descendants of Genghis Khan? Cool!

Implies that among homo sapiens at least periodic large-scale rapey/stabby is apparently a successful gene-spreading ploy.

834 Flounder  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:50:22am

re: #833 oaktree

Or survival of the fittest. This rapey/stabby thing takes all the romance out of it.
/////

835 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:50:59am

re: #834 Shropshire_Slasher

Or survival of the fittest. This rapey/stabby thing takes all the romance out of it.
///

Romance is dead. It was a victim of the rapey/stabby.

836 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:57:58am

Bachmann cancels her SC trip, signaling that her campaign is coming to an end (damnit, I was looking forward to more unmerciful mocking of her inanities).

837 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:58:44am

re: #836 lawhawk

Bachmann cancels her SC trip, signaling that her campaign is coming to an end (damnit, I was looking forward to more unmerciful mocking of her inanities).

Source says Michele Bachmann to announce she’s suspending her campaign for president. Briefing at 11 a.m. — CNN

838 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 7:59:47am

re: #836 lawhawk

Bachmann cancels her SC trip, signaling that her campaign is coming to an end (damnit, I was looking forward to more unmerciful mocking of her inanities).

I presume she will simply “suspend” operations rather than officially quit. Like Cain she will want to keep up the facade for monetary reasons.

839 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:00:53am

huh. I see in other news that Obama’s going to make a recess appointment using the session turnover gap.

Only the consumer protection bureau, however, and none of the others that have been stalled for most of the year. or so, at least, goes the preview news.

840 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:02:25am

re: #836 lawhawk

Bachmann cancels her SC trip, signaling that her campaign is coming to an end (damnit, I was looking forward to more unmerciful mocking of her inanities).

Don’t worry too much, lawhawk. The remaining rich white boys have plenty of bullshit to be mocked.

841 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:02:31am

re: #838 oaktree

I presume she will simply “suspend” operations rather than officially quit. Like Cain she will want to keep up the facade for monetary reasons.

Of course. Seriously, officially quitting is stupid. “Oh, sure, I’ll stop and be required to pay all the debts with what I have within 90 days. I’ll forego the ability to collect more money to pay those debts and have till 90 days after the convention to pay them.”

842 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:03:00am

re: #839 kirkspencer

I think that there’s a contentiousness with using recess power during this period, and so he’s trying not to overreach.

843 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:07:41am

Bachmann may come down with a case of hiatus interruptus.

Get well soon Michelle, we need you.

844 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:09:08am
845 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:11:11am
846 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:12:08am

Hmm. They’re finally playing some good music.

847 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:17:03am

re: #842 Obdicut

I think that there’s a contentiousness with using recess power during this period, and so he’s trying not to overreach.

On the one hand I agree. On the other, I’m not sure multiples would be significantly more contentious than a single.

848 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:17:40am

greetings from rome
so, who won in iowa?

849 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:17:58am

re: #848 Sergey Romanov

greetings from rome
so, who won in iowa?

The American people.

850 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:18:26am

re: #849 Gus 802

huh?

851 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:18:45am

re: #850 Sergey Romanov

huh?

It’s a joke.

852 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:18:54am

re: #848 Sergey Romanov

greetings from rome
so, who won in iowa?

Eight vote mandate.

853 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:19:11am

re: #850 Sergey Romanov

huh?

Romney. By 8.

Allegedly.

854 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:20:02am

re: #853 Gus 802

that’s bad, i was hoping for a crazy.

855 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:20:10am

Or according to CNN, a victory for Santorum even though he lost by 8.

856 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:20:29am

re: #853 Gus 802

Romney. By 8.

Allegedly.

Romney spent 133 dollars per vote. Santorum spent $1.65.

857 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:21:03am

re: #854 Sergey Romanov

that’s bad, i was hoping for a crazy.

Yeah me too. Ron Paul would have been so much fun. Santorum is so boring.

858 William of Orange  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:21:08am

Great news all around today!!

Apart from the Bachmann news there was also the news that Anders Behring Breivik was declared lgally sane so he can face trail. If he was declared insane he would not serve jailtime and could even be released at some point.

I think his public life is over now, forever.

859 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:21:46am

re: #856 darthstar

Romney spent 133 dollars per vote. Santorum spent $1.65.

Yep. But! He got a last minute endorsement from the Dear Leader Rupert Murdoch.

860 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:21:59am

re: #855 Gus 802

ok, i clicked on desmoines link and i see some places are not 100% counted. since it’s just 8 votes, frothy could still squeeze thru?

861 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:22:01am

Bachmann is suspending her campaign.
6% more to Santorum or Perry.

Depends on the Bigot factor as to whether they spring for a Catholic or not.

You know it’s not gone well for you if you have to remind people who you are when you are conceding.

862 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:22:08am

Here we go!

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

863 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:22:18am

Pilgrims!

864 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:22:33am

re: #856 darthstar

Romney spent 133 dollars per vote. Santorum spent $1.65.

Yeah, but Santorum was WTF? LOL! for every vote, Romney merely smiled and said sweet nothings.

865 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:22:34am

Founding fathers!

Witness!

866 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:22:50am

re: #859 Gus 802

Yep. But! He got a last minute endorsement from the Dear Leader Rupert Murdoch.

And he gets the coveted endorsement of Sarah Palin’s running mate today.

867 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:23:11am

re: #857 Gus 802

my “goal” is for obama to win, and romney could win over bo more easily than the rest.

868 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:23:25am

re: #866 darthstar

And he gets the coveted endorsement of Sarah Palin’s running mate today.

Oh. I meant Santorum.

869 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:23:36am

ObamaCare!

870 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:24:07am

We’re gonna die!

871 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:24:11am

re: #868 Gus 802

Oh. I meant Santorum.

Oh…I thought the Murdoch endorsement was odd for Mitt.

872 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:24:48am

Michele, Michele, Michele! It’s too early for a drinking game! Stop saying Obamacare…I have to go to work.

873 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:24:52am

re: #871 darthstar

Oh…I thought the Murdoch endorsement was odd for Mitt.

Nah. It was for Santorum. Even though he lost by 8 some are calling this a win for him regardless.

874 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:25:09am

Tax payer funded abortion!

875 darthstar  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:25:34am

re: #873 Gus 802

Nah. It was for Santorum. Even though he lost by 8 some are calling this a win for him regardless.

It is…because it shows how unliked Romney is that people would choose a frothy mixture before him.

876 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:25:37am

Holy scripture! The Bible!

877 iossarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:25:59am

re: #874 Gus 802

Tax payer funded abortion!

Repeal Dodd-Frank!

878 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:26:35am

re: #875 darthstar

It is…because it shows how unliked Romney is that people would choose a frothy mixture before him.

Iowa’s a little different on the Republican end. Given Huckabee’s win there in 2008. But who knows. Santorum could be “their guy.”

879 iossarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:26:49am

Right-wing corporatist fantasy land.

880 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:26:57am

ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank. ObamaCare. Dodd-Frank.

881 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:27:06am

Socialism!

882 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:27:29am

I ran!

Iran? Sekrit messaging going on here. //

883 iossarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:27:31am

I want all the children in America to have the chance to die of easily-preventable diseases!

884 steve_davis  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:27:37am

re: #62 aagcobb

I support Obama, and I will vote for him. I just am not going to try to fool myself into thinking this is going to be an easy win if the unemployment rate is still well over 8% and the economy isn’t creating jobs. The GOP is very motivated to make Obama a one term president.

The economy IS creating jobs. It’s been doing so for the past 2 years. Isn’t it amazing how mass media lets Republicans run these kinds of false memes with impunity until they become part of the collective consciousness. Strike that. Not that amazing.

885 bratwurst  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:28:18am

I wish her and her family well, but the fact she is about to depart the national stage makes this a GREAT day for America.

886 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:28:35am

Headache.

887 iossarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:28:44am

I will fight for religious liberty*!

*Not for Muslims though.

888 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:29:20am

MussoliniCare!!11ty

889 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:30:51am

Insane bitch.

890 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:30:56am

Politicians. Blech.

891 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:31:18am

re: #883 iossarian

I want all the unborn children in America to have the chance to die of easily-preventable diseases!

892 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:31:23am

FREEDOM - but not for women or teh gayz

893 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:31:34am

So long Michele! Don’t let the door hit you in the ass! ;)

894 iossarian  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:31:52am

Turned her off. What a windbag.

895 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:32:17am

The Lord! Gods plan.

896 bratwurst  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:32:26am

Even though she is leaving the race, she has not lost her religious faith or her faith in her country…that is a relief!

897 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:32:38am

*halfhearted applause*

898 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:32:59am

Please. Shoot. Me.

899 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:33:03am

re: #887 iossarian

I will fight for religious liberty*!

*Not for Muslims though.

Orwell would have had a field day with the US socons and conservatarians.

900 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:33:14am

re: #898 Gus 802

Please. Shoot. Me.

no

901 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:34:02am

re: #900 Sergey Romanov

no

It’s over the pain is gone! She stopped speaking and I removed my headphones. Whew. Bleh. Spit.

[Shakes head.]

902 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:34:49am

So Rick Perry stays.

903 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:35:10am

And you know Bachmann voters will go for Santorum.

904 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:35:59am

re: #903 Gus 802

And you know Bachmann voters will go for Santorum.

I didn’t know they were into that sort of thing.

905 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:38:00am

An early leader this year for controlling cognitive dissonance?

906 elizajane  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:38:06am

Tweet from Paul Begala: “In 08 Romney got 30,021 votes. Last night he got 30,015. Mitt & his SuperPAC spent $4 mill to lose 6 votes.”

h/t Greg Sargent

907 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:39:14am

In narrowest of margins, Romney edges out surging Santorum.

Real headline.

908 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:39:46am

re: #907 BigPapa

In narrowest of margins, Romney edges out surging Santorum.

Real headline.

*spittake*

Someone owes me a new monitor.

909 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:40:48am

re: #893 Gus 802

So long Michele! Don’t let the door hit you in the ass! ;)

The actual Party of Lincoln would have attached rusty spikes to the door and slammed it repeatedly.

910 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:41:01am

Ugh. My stupid Logitech MX mouse is dying.

911 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:43:38am

re: #903 Gus 802

And you know Bachmann voters will go for Santorum.

Don’t know if her supporters will go for the “papist” candidate.

912 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:43:39am

From BBC News: “Santorum Appeals to Swing Voters”.

Gosh, and I though that guy was white-bread hetero.

913 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:46:12am

New meaning to the term Rick Rolled.

914 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:46:33am

re: #902 Gus 802

So Rick Perry stays.

I thought he was reassessing? I was sort of hoping he’d sneak in the top 3 or 4 last night just to have someone give Romney a run for his money. To me it looks like it’s smooth sailing for Romney at this point.

915 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:47:23am

re: #914 RogueOne

I thought he was reassessing? I was sort of hoping he’d sneak in the top 3 or 4 last night just to have someone give Romney a run for his money. To me it looks like it’s smooth sailing for Romney at this point.

Well. Apparently he’s now just taking a couple of days off and then heading to the NH debates.

916 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:47:46am

He’s heading to SC first.

917 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:47:55am

[Link: twitter.com…]

918 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:49:25am

re: #902 Gus 802

So Rick Perry stays.

I think he will stay until his money runs out, what else is he supposed to do with it?

919 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:49:26am

re: #914 RogueOne

I thought he was reassessing? I was sort of hoping he’d sneak in the top 3 or 4 last night just to have someone give Romney a run for his money. To me it looks like it’s smooth sailing for Romney at this point.

Perry Tweeted “On to south carolina”

920 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:49:39am

@GovernorPerry Rick Perry
And the next leg of the marathon is the Palmetto State…Here we come South Carolina!!! [Link: yfrog.com…]

921 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:50:12am

re: #919 wozzablog

Perry Tweeted “On to south carolina”

Image: z8ujr.jpg

922 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:50:37am

re: #919 wozzablog

Perry Tweeted “On to south carolina”

Just read that on politico from the twitter feed gus supplied. This struck me amusing:

UPDATE: Perry spokesman Mark Miner told POLITICO he didn’t know what the tweet indicated.

“I’m checking on it,” he said, before a question could even be completed.

Miner said Perry himself controls the account.

923 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:51:30am

Preview of Rick Perry’s concession speech: I’d like to congratulate the 3 winners: Romney, Paul…&, uh, I can’t remember the third….

Perry not dropping out . Could not think of a 3rd reason to do so.

RT @StevenTDennis: At $500/vote, Perry could have just given everybody iPads.

924 Coracle  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:51:45am

re: #914 RogueOne

I thought he was reassessing? I was sort of hoping he’d sneak in the top 3 or 4 last night just to have someone give Romney a run for his money. To me it looks like it’s smooth sailing for Romney at this point.

Well, if he doesn’t win NH at a walk-away, it’s trouble. And if he loses SC (really possible), the claws will be out on everyone until at least Super Tuesday.

925 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:54:57am

Heading to SC. Sending staffer to Florida.

926 RogueOne  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:54:58am

Skyline is here. First chili dogs of the new year is always a special occasion. BBIAB.

927 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:56:56am

Rick Perry: Men in Tights.

The movie.

928 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:58:54am

So what are the New Hampshire numbers?

929 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:58:57am

Mullahs: “Infidel kids git off mah lawn!”
Iran prepares bill to bar foreign warships from Persian Gulf

“If the military vessels and warships of any country want to pass via the Strait of Hormuz without coordination and permission of Iran’s navy forces, they should be stopped by the Iranian armed forces,” Fars quoted lawmaker Nader Qazipour as saying in explaining the bill. He noted that Iran regards the strait as part of its territorial waters and said the bill would be presented to parliamentary leaders next week.

930 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:59:32am

re: #929 Killgore Trout

Mullahs: “Infidel kids git off mah lawn!”
Iran prepares bill to bar foreign warships from Persian Gulf

That’ll work!

931 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 8:59:34am

re: #928 Gus 802

So what are the New Hampshire numbers?

ROmney had 43%

932 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:00:30am

re: #931 wozzablog

ROmney had 43%

I see. Funny, you would think that Ron Paul would be in front in New Hampshire.

933 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:01:07am

re: #926 RogueOne

Skyline is here. First chili dogs of the new year is always a special occasion. BBIAB.

WANT.

934 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:01:17am

Romney holds New Hampshire edge, Gingrich slips: poll

*Note. Reuters link intentional. ;)

935 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:02:11am

re: #929 Killgore Trout

Mullahs: “Infidel kids git off mah lawn!”
Iran prepares bill to bar foreign warships from Persian Gulf

I wish them the best of luck with that. The commander of the US 5th Fleet seems to be itching for a fight.

936 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:02:21am

re: #932 Gus 802

I see. Funny, you would think that Ron Paul would be in front in New Hampshire.

They have zero time for bat shit in New Hampshire. It’s displaced Massachusetts types and the Establishment dominating the GOP there and to a certain extent vermont.

937 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:03:20am

re: #929 Killgore Trout

Mullahs: “Infidel kids git off mah lawn!”
Iran prepares bill to bar foreign warships from Persian Gulf

Ain’t gonna happen…

The United States has dismissed as overblown rhetoric Iran’s threats to close the strategic Strait of Hormuz, the narrow entrance to the Persian Gulf, in retaliation for Western sanctions over its uranium-enrichment program.

938 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:03:21am

re: #936 wozzablog

They have zero time for bat shit in New Hampshire. It’s displaced Massachusetts types and the Establishment dominating the GOP there and to a certain extent vermont.

Yeah. Guess my impression of NH has changed. Last time I was there was in 1987. Sure seemed different. Especially compared to Vermont.

939 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:03:51am

re: #935 thedopefishlives

I wish them the best of luck with that. The commander of the US 5th Fleet seems to be itching for a fight.

Iran has taken to writing their own strongly worded letters.

//

940 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:04:31am

Hamas’ New Logic: Lack of Jews in Gaza Forces It into Violence

Hamas says that if only Jews still were in Gaza, it would be able to stage peaceful protests. Without them, the only choice is violence.

The odd logic was stated by senior Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar, who explained why the terrorist organization cannot agree to non-violence protests, such as the Arab Spring uprisings.

“Against whom could we demonstrate in the Gaza Strip? When Gaza was occupied, that model was applicable,” Zahar was quoted as saying by the Bethlehem-based Ma’an news agency.

Gaza was the home to more than 9,000 Jews from the early 1980s until 2005, when the Sharon government engineered their expulsion with the supposed aim of ending rocket attacks by Gaza terrorists. Hundreds of Jews in Gaza has been killed and wounded in shooting and bombing attacks.

Now that the Jews are gone, Hamas apparently wants them back so they can be targets of peaceful protests instead of rifle fire and bombs.

941 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:04:59am

re: #938 Gus 802

Yeah. Guess my impression of NH has changed. Last time I was there was in 1987. Sure seemed different. Especially compared to Vermont.

I only know what I’ve heard from teh meedja, but it seems to hang together in the numbers and statements.

942 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:05:43am

re: #941 wozzablog

I only know what I’ve heard from teh meedja, but it seems to hang together in the numbers and statements.

Well. Then good for NH in apparently rejecting that nut.

943 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:06:53am

re: #940 NJDhockeyfan

Hamas’ New Logic: Lack of Jews in Gaza Forces It into Violence

Wait, what?

Oh, it’s from Arutz Sheva. Never mind.

944 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:08:45am

re: #934 Gus 802

Romney holds New Hampshire edge, Gingrich slips: poll

*Note. Reuters link intentional. ;)

…Gingrich slips on Santorum…

945 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:08:51am

So what’s today’s Paulbot conspiracy?

946 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:09:24am

Trilateral Commision!!11ty

947 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:10:41am

re: #14 aagcobb

It has winnowed the field, however. Perry and Bachmann are dead, and Gingrich is on life support.

Bachmann drops out

Thank goodness.

948 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:11:38am

re: #947 reine.de.tout

Bachmann drops out

Thank goodness.

Maybe her battery died !!!

:)

949 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:11:57am

re: #945 Gus 802

So what’s today’s Paulbot conspiracy?

Ron Paul May Have Secretly Won The Iowa Caucuses

950 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:12:13am

re: #947 reine.de.tout

Bachmann drops out

Thank goodness.

The debates will be less fun without her.

951 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:13:08am

re: #943 Alouette

Except that Ynet has a similar story (without nearly as much embellishment, but the same premise - Zahar claims that without Israelis in Gaza, who would they protest in Gaza).

But perhaps more fanciful is Turkey’s government claiming that Hamas is for a peace process:

In a meeting with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey on Sunday, Mr. Haniya thanked him for Turkey’s continuing support for the lifting of the Israeli embargo on Gaza, and he briefed senior Turkish officials on civilian hardships in Gaza. Mr. Haniya also praised Turkey’s acceptance of 11 Palestinians, former prisoners who were released last year as part of the exchange that led to release of the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.

Omer Celik, a senior party official in Turkey, called the Gaza conflict Turkey’s “national issue” and urged Israel to recognize Hamas as a legitimate political organization; Israel, the United States and European nations regard it as a terrorist group.

“If Israel is sincere about the peace process,” Mr. Celik said on NTV, standing next to Mr. Haniya, “it should quit declaring organizations like Hamas that support the peace process illegal, and stop building settlements.”

Turkey backs Egyptian-led reconciliation efforts between Hamas and Fatah that began in May but are moving slowly. Israel says that if Hamas joins the Palestinian Authority, there can be no peace talks. At the moment, Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority and head of Fatah, is caught between reconciling with Israel and reconciling with Hamas.

Turkey has backed efforts to run Israel’s blockade of Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas. Hamas has no interest in peace with Israel or a peace process, and doesn’t recognize Israel’s right to exist, so Celik claiming Hamas supports a peace process is a flight of fancy with no basis in reality.

952 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:13:21am

re: #947 reine.de.tout

Bachmann drops out

Thank goodness.

Perry is still in, purely for a VP pick presumably. He can’t out Evangelise Santorum, he can’t out policy Romney, can’t out talk Gingrich.

If Perry gets out Santorum springs clear. Simple.

953 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:13:25am

re: #950 Decatur Deb

The debates will be less fun without her.

Like I mentioned to lawhawk upthread, there’s still plenty of crazy to go around. It is true that every one of these clowns that drops out reduces the fun factor somewhat, but just like Maxwell House, this will be good to the last drop.

954 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:13:35am

re: #950 Decatur Deb

The debates will be less fun without her.

Ron Paul is staying for a while. There’s no more fun than that.

955 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:14:48am

re: #954 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul is staying for a while. There’s no more fun than that.

Nothing better than watching him remind the others about what Reagan *actually* did.

956 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:16:43am

re: #953 thedopefishlives

Like I mentioned to lawhawk upthread, there’s still plenty of crazy to go around. It is true that every one of these clowns that drops out reduces the fun factor somewhat, but just like Maxwell House, this will be good to the last drop derp.

FTFY

957 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:18:45am

One of these guys is my grandfather.

I think it’s the oldest one, on the right.

That’s on the family farm in Wisconsin.

958 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:20:48am

re: #957 wrenchwench

One of these guys is my grandfather.

I think it’s the oldest one, on the right.

That’s on the family farm in Wisconsin.

Great picture!

959 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:22:12am

re: #957 wrenchwench

One of these guys is my grandfather.

I think it’s the oldest one, on the right.

That’s on the family farm in Wisconsin.

The Little Rascals!!

Love it!!

960 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:22:32am

re: #958 NJDhockeyfan

Great picture!

Thanks! I have a better copy of it myself, but this one was uploaded by one of my relatives planning a family reunion.

961 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:23:36am

re: #936 wozzablog

They have zero time for bat shit in New Hampshire. It’s displaced Massachusetts types and the Establishment dominating the GOP there and to a certain extent vermont.

I dunno. Did you see the State Legislature they elected last time around? It’s pretty damn bat shit.

962 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:24:52am

re: #948 sattv4u2

Maybe her battery died !!!

:)

hehehehe.

963 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:26:05am

re: #959 sattv4u2

The Little Rascals!!

Love it!!

heh. That is what they look like!

964 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:26:47am

re: #961 Simply Sarah

I dunno. Did you see the State Legislature they elected last time around? It’s pretty damn bat shit.

In the primary the only outlier is Buchanan for the last 4 decades.

965 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:27:22am

Was on the phone. Mongo have to design high rise.

966 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:28:07am

re: #952 wozzablog

Perry is still in, purely for a VP pick presumably. He can’t out Evangelise Santorum, he can’t out policy Romney, can’t out talk Gingrich.

If Perry gets out Santorum springs clear. Simple.

oh, argh, Perry.
I can’t even talk straight when I try to say anything about Perry.
The guy is such a lightweight.

967 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:28:10am

re: #957 wrenchwench

One of these guys is my grandfather.

I think it’s the oldest one, on the right.

That’s on the family farm in Wisconsin.

It’s the Little Rascals! ;)

968 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:28:30am

re: #965 Gus 802

Was on the phone. Mongo have to design high rise.

sounds like a good job!

969 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:28:30am

re: #965 Gus 802

Was on the phone. Mongo have to design high rise.

That sounds like a lot of work. Yay!

970 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:29:23am

re: #968 reine.de.tout

sounds like a good job!

re: #969 wrenchwench

That sounds like a lot of work. Yay!

Just preliminary work but yeah. It’s good. Could sure use more like pre-2008 levels but this is good.

971 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:30:07am

re: #964 wozzablog

In the primary the only outlier is Buchanan for the last 4 decades.

McCain, Bush, McCain, Buchanan, Bush, Bush, Reagan, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, Nixon

972 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:33:10am

re: #899 Sergey Romanov

Orwell would have had a field day with the US socons and conservatarians.

There is very little difference between the people he fought in Spain and the modern TP/GOP. That small amount is vanishing daily…

973 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:35:10am

re: #967 Gus 802

It’s the Little Rascals! ;)

Seems as if I have heard that before??

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

//

974 Gus  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:36:33am

re: #973 sattv4u2

Seems as if I have heard that before??

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

//

Ha! Didn’t see your reference. But that was one of my first thoughts, the Little Rascals.

975 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:38:36am

re: #974 Gus 802

Ha! Didn’t see your reference. But that was one of my first thoughts, the Little Rascals.

It’s been a long time since I saw a Little Rascals movie, so I googled some photos. They have shoes and less dirt. But there certainly are similarities.

976 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 4, 2012 9:39:10am

re: #974 Gus 802

Ha! Didn’t see your reference. But that was one of my first thoughts, the Little Rascals.

Tha’s Okay

You’re not the only one that ignores the stuff I say

My kid
my wife
my boss
my dogs
my ,,,,,,


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