James O’Keefe Commits Voter Fraud to ‘Prove’ Voter Fraud

Breitbart’s crony may have broken the law again
Wingnuts • Views: 34,972

In his latest moronic, almost certainly illegal right wing stunt, fraudster James O’Keefe scoured obituary listings for the names of recently deceased New Hampshire residents, then sent his operatives to polling stations where they tried to obtain ballots for those dead voters.

The Daily Caller is hyping this bogus story as if it were Watergate II, calling it a “bombshell:” VIDEO: NH poll workers shown handing out ballots in dead peoples’ names.

O’Keefe’s partner in fraud, Andrew Breitbart, is also hyping this fake outrage: Breitbart.tv » Dead Man Voting: O’Keefe Exposes Troubling Ballot Policies In New Hampshire.

O’Keefe’s brigade of right wing numbskulls was actually caught in the act at one polling place: Would-be dead man voter stopped at polls.

MANCHESTER, N.H. — A mystery man trying to vote in the New Hampshire primary using a dead man’s name got caught by an eagle-eyed voting supervisor in Manchester, then disappeared before police could corral him.

“We take a lot of pride in this primary,” Gloria Pilotte, the Ward 9 supervisor who stopped the voter fraud, told the Herald. “I’m very confident about the way we do this in New Hampshire.”

The unknown man, dressed in a suit and tie, did not say why he was trying to vote as the recently deceased person and would not identify any group he was representing.

“He said ‘You’ll soon find out,’ ” Pilotte tells the Herald.

But in the closed loop of the wingnut echo chamber, the fact that no actual voter fraud was demonstrated, and that no one has ever even been accused of a scheme like O’Keefe’s, will be completely irrelevant. This is all they need to start screaming that left wing “voter fraud” is now a proven fact.

UPDATE at 1/11/12 1:01:23 pm

LGF author Lawhawk points out the relevant federal statute; note that to commit a crime, it isn’t necessary to actually cast a vote. The simple act of procuring the ballots under false pretenses is clearly illegal:

42 USC § 1973GG–10. CRIMINAL PENALTIES relevant parts being section (2)(b)):

A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office- knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by—

(A) the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held; or
(B) the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held,

shall be fined in accordance with title 18 (which fines shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury, miscellaneous receipts (pursuant to section 3302 of title 31), notwithstanding any other law), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

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328 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:48:38pm

LOL, he calls himself "JamesOKeefeIII" on twitter? What is he, a noble? What a douche. Or is it "I, I, I", as in "me, me, me"?

2 JAFO  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:50:11pm

That pretty boy face is going to make him popular in prison.

3 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:51:13pm

James O’Keefe Commits Voter Fraud to ‘Prove’ Voter Fraud

what is 'unexpected unadulterated crap out of left field that the right wing is going to throw at democrats to distract voters from now until the election' - Alex?

4 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:51:34pm

42 USC § 1973GG–10. CRIMINAL PENALTIES relevant parts being section (2)(b)):

A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office- knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by—

(A) the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held; or
(B) the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held,

shall be fined in accordance with title 18 (which fines shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury, miscellaneous receipts (pursuant to section 3302 of title 31), notwithstanding any other law), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

5 mikec6666  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:52:35pm

He commits fraud and gets caught, and that proves the system doesn't work? Well, of course. Just the way science proves climate change exists therefore it doesn't exist. Or any of the other moronic things these people buy into.

Orwell is alive!

6 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:53:32pm

O'Keefe should wear a gun in a shoulder holster (or strap some dynamite around his waist) and go to an airport to expose how lax Obama's department of Homeland Security is...

I'll bet this little fucker runs for congress in another two years.

7 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:55:14pm

re: #5 mikec6666

For his own protection, and the sanctity of our electoral process, he should at least be held under the new NDAA law until such time as we're able to confirm he's not a threat to this country.

8 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:55:38pm

All I can think of is Breitbart talking to Okeefe and saying, "Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber, you pull something like this ... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!"

9 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:56:55pm

Voter Fraud

the subtext of everything in the campaign from the GOP side in 2012 is going to be "negroes"

10 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:57:33pm

Sure enough. There's Andrew. What a surprise.

11 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:57:58pm

re: #7 darthstar

For his own protection, and the sanctity of our electoral process, he should at least be held under the new NDAA law until such time as we're able to confirm he's not a threat to this country.

"SOMEBODY PUT A FRICKING BELL ON THAT KID!"

12 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:59:03pm

What we're all missing is the fact this means Romney might not have actually won NH due to the amount of voter fraud we didn't see.

13 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:01:03pm

Looks like he can be tried in both State and Federal Court for this.

14 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:02:11pm

The fact that O'Keefe could conceivably get away with committing a crime proves that everyone needs to be in jail, 24/7/365.

We have to do anything we can to prevent anyone from potentially committing a crime, anywhere at any time. Only liberals would object.

15 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:02:25pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

LOL, he calls himself "JamesOKeefeIII" on twitter? What is he, a noble? What a douche. Or is it "I, I, I", as in "me, me, me"?

More like 'Ay, yi, yi, how could one human be so stupid?'

16 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:02:26pm

Well, I don't consider myself a legal scholar, but I know we have at least one or two banging around, so here's the terms of O'Keefe's probation from his little wiretap stunt back in '10. But just being a layman, I can already see that he might be considered in violation of his probation:

The defendant shall not associate with any persons engaged in criminal activity and shall not associate with any person convicted of a felony, unless granted permission to do so by the probation officer

Doesn't seem like he was just associated, but actively participated in the crime.

17 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:03:50pm
O’Keefe said he eventually plans to post full, unedited videos of the encounters. “It shows the integrity of the elections process is severely comprised,” the filmmaker said.

He said no laws were broken during the investigation and that his team members never claimed to be the dead people whose ballots they were trying to obtain. Instead, they carefully worded the way they asked for ballots, phrasing it like: “Do you have Earnest Chavanelle?” and “Do you have Paul Soucy?”

“We decided to go in there without using any false pretenses,” he said. “There’s no misrepresentation in these videos if you watch them — we didn’t lie about who we were.”

The investigators never actually voted when they were given ballots. Sting artists who received ballots would leave the voting precincts after saying they left their identification in the car.

But if the whole point was they didn't need ID to get a ballot, why would they need to head back to their car to get identification?

18 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:04:57pm

re: #16 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, I don't consider myself a legal scholar, but I know we have at least one or two banging around, so here's the terms of O'Keefe's probation from his little wiretap stunt back in '10. But just being a layman, I can already see that he might be considered in violation of his probation:

Doesn't seem like he was just associated, but actively participated in the crime.

no desert for him

19 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:05:09pm

re: #16 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, I don't consider myself a legal scholar, but I know we have at least one or two banging around, so here's the terms of O'Keefe's probation from his little wiretap stunt back in '10. But just being a layman, I can already see that he might be considered in violation of his probation:

Doesn't seem like he was just associated, but actively participated in the crime.

I think that they set it up so that no crime was committed. They only asked whether they could vote under a dead persons name, but didn't actually try to do so?

What they showed is that if someone intended to, they could conceivably have committed a crime.

This is what he thinks is "investigative journalism."

20 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:06:22pm

re: #19 Talking Point Detective

I think that they set it up so that no crime was committed. They only asked whether they could vote under a dead persons name, but didn't actually try to do so?

What they showed is that if someone intended to, they could conceivably have committed a crime.

This is what he thinks is "investigative journalism."

A smart prosecutor could easily point out that even asking for the ballot was intent to commit the crime.

21 euphgeek  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:07:05pm

Apparently Jimmy has proved that it can be done. Now he just has to prove that it has been done, that it is epidemic, and that it's able to affect the outcome of an election.

22 RadicalModerate  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:08:35pm

re: #19 Talking Point Detective

I think that they set it up so that no crime was committed. They only asked whether they could vote under a dead persons name, but didn't actually try to do so?

What they showed is that if someone intended to, they could conceivably have committed a crime.

This is what he thinks is "investigative journalism."

No, they actually TRIED to obtain voter forms, and in one case were turned away by a supervisor who actually knew the recently-deceased.

23 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:08:45pm

re: #20 makeitstop

A smart prosecutor could easily point out that even asking for the ballot was intent to commit the crime.


Federal law bans not only the casting of, but the “procurement” of ballots “that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held.”

Hamline University law professor David Schultz told TPM that there’s “no doubt” that O’Keefe’s accomplices violated the law.

“In either case, if they were intentionally going in and trying to fraudulently obtain a ballot, they violated the law,” Schultz said. “So right off the bat, what they did violated the law.”

Election law expert Rick Hasen, who writes the Election Law Blog, joked in an email to TPM that O’Keefe’s team should “next show how easy it is to rob a bank with a plastic gun.”

“Who in their right mind would risk a felony conviction for this? And who would be able to do this in large enough numbers to (1) affect the outcome of the election and (2) remain undetected?” Hasen wrote.

24 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:08:47pm

re: #20 makeitstop

A smart prosecutor could easily point out that even asking for the ballot was intent to commit the crime.

From your keyboard to a smart prosecutor's case load.

25 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:11:34pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #22 RadicalModerate

I stand corrected. Fry 'em.

26 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:11:50pm

Why was a man from Texas who got caught at the voting booth committing fraud in N.H. let go? He should have at least been properly identified and booked.

27 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:12:18pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's purrrfect, isn't it? I mean, O'Keefe cares about the integrity of the elections, right? And one of the ways to ensure it is strict punishment for those who break the rules. So O'Keefe and his buddies should be sent to prison for a long time, otherwise elections are in danger!

28 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:12:23pm

In the Breitbart world, evidence that one dipshit can commit a crime is proof of an overreaching conspiracy to commit that crime on a massive scale.

29 RadicalModerate  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:14:07pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

O’Keefe said he eventually plans to post full, unedited videos of the encounters. “It shows the integrity of the elections process is severely comprised,” the filmmaker said.

Oh, where have we heard THAT one before?

Pretty much every time the unedited videos have been released in O'Keefes little "sting" operations (in some cases under court order), they've proved him to be lying out of his ass.

30 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:15:11pm

Rick Perry to speak at "apolitical" SC Prayer Rally

The Response is holding events in early Republican primary states, including one last month in Iowa and two prayer rallies in the next major GOP contests, South Carolina and Florida, and presidential candidate Rick Perry will be the special guest at the event in Greenville, which will take place just days before the primary vote:

Of course, having a presidential candidate who has made South Carolina the last stand of his campaign address the prayer event flies in the face of everything The Response organizers and Perry said about the “apolitical” nature of The Response. Perry’s office said in a statement publicizing The Response, which he headed along with the far-right American Family Association, that it was decidedly “apolitical”:

31 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:15:56pm

Intent can be inferred from their statements to the press

32 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:16:58pm

I hope this little adventure costs his daddy a vacation house in legal fees.

33 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:17:05pm

re: #29 RadicalModerate

Oh, where have we heard THAT one before?

Pretty much every time the unedited videos have been released in O'Keefes little "sting" operations (in some cases under court order), they've proved him to be lying out of his ass.

Yeah, but by the time he eventually does release them, the edited clips and the bullshit hyped by them have been circulating for days, so nobody pays attention to the debunking.

34 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:19:11pm

re: #31 SpaceJesus

Intent can be inferred from their statements to the press

I said it last thread. This is the same breed of idiot who think if you ask an undercover cop if he's a cop and he says no, then its entrapment.

35 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:19:51pm

re: #32 darthstar

I hope this little adventure costs his daddy a vacation house in legal fees.

Personally, were I his old man, I'd cut his ass loose and wish him luck in prison. He got off lucky once by having a lawyer talk down a felony to a misdemeanor and get him off with just probation/community service/fine. Committing another felony before you haven't even finished serving out your time for your last crime would be the end of my patience.

36 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:20:36pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Perry to speak at "apolitical" SC Prayer Rally

Rick Perry to "speak"

37 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:21:17pm

re: #36 engineer dog

Rick Perry to "speak"

Herp de derp, de derpity herp de derp!

38 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:22:49pm

re: #35 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, were I his old man, I'd cut his ass loose and wish him luck in prison. He got off lucky once by having a lawyer talk down a felony to a misdemeanor and get him off with just probation/community service/fine. Committing another felony before you haven't even finished serving out your time for your last crime would be the end of my patience.

And he's not a "kid" anymore (not that he was a kid when he was 24). I find it utterly impossible to give a fuck about this kid. My only hope is that he'll get burned by the people he trusts most (Breitbart, the GOP) and his best work will be an expose on them as an act of revenge.

Ha! I still called the little fucker a kid. How about that?

39 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:25:56pm

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I said it last thread. This is the same breed of idiot who think if you ask an undercover cop if he's a cop and he says no, then its entrapment.

Ah. I'm on my tablet at work. Following links and reading every comment is impossible on this thing, it takes forver

40 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:26:24pm

re: #38 darthstar

Ha! I still called the little fucker a kid. How about that?

I'll be calling him a kid ten years from now.

Compared to me, everybody's a kid. Except for maybe albusteve./

41 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:28:12pm

The OKeefe Truth Team in action:

In the raw footage released by O’Keefe (reproduced below), at 12:32, the poll worker asks the unnamed individual, “what’s your name again?” The man replies with the name of a dead New Hampshire voter, “Thomas McCarron.” She then asks if he lives at “179 Harrison Street?” The man affirms, “yes.”

In another instance, at 5:00, the poll worker checks off the individual’s fake name and says, “that’s you.” He does not correct her, but implicitly affirms the false identity by taking the ballot she hands him.

In addition, O’Keefe’s group may have run afoul of New Hampshire’s law against hidden recording devices. Granite State law requires both parties to consent when recording devices are used, a fact that even O’Keefe’s own website notes. However, the video gives no indication that poll workers were aware they were being filmed.

So much for "carefully wording" their requests.

42 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:28:29pm

re: #40 makeitstop

I'll be calling him a kid ten years from now.

Compared to me, everybody's a kid. Except for maybe albusteve./

Yep...he's an old goat.
/

43 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:30:02pm

re: #42 darthstar

Yep...he's an old goat.
/

So am I! :)

44 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:32:38pm

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The OKeefe Truth Team in action:

So much for "carefully wording" their requests.

Like I said last thread, this video pretty much does the prosecutor's job for him. So, do you think O'Keefe's partners in crime will stand with him or take a deal?

45 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:33:05pm

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The OKeefe Truth Team in action:

So much for "carefully wording" their requests.

Completely fucked.

46 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:34:47pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

Ah. I'm on my tablet at work. Following links and reading every comment is impossible on this thing, it takes forver

You got a job? Are you a lawyer now?

47 Girth  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:36:29pm

Have a nice time in prison, asshole. You won't be missed.

Maybe he'll use his time locked up to write a book, something with a catchy title, like "My Struggle" or something like that.

48 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:40:05pm

re: #44 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I said last thread, this video pretty much does the prosecutor's job for him. So, do you think O'Keefe's partners in crime will stand with him or take a deal?

I think if they make a movie about it, "Sell Out" will be the theme song.

49 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:41:53pm

re: #45 SpaceJesus

Completely fucked.

If Jesus says you're fucked...you're fucked.
Whoopee!

50 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:42:00pm

re: #44 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I said last thread, this video pretty much does the prosecutor's job for him. So, do you think O'Keefe's partners in crime will stand with him or take a deal?

I say they roll like they've never rolled in their lives.

51 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:43:40pm

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In the Breitbart world, evidence that one dipshit can commit a crime is proof of an overreaching conspiracy to commit that crime on a massive scale.

Someone else out there is as stupid as me. That's proof there's a conspiracy!

///

52 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:44:30pm

Am I missing the part where they were arrested or any intent to charge them has been announced?

53 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:44:45pm

sigh...

the rest of the year is gonna be so boring, now... romney vs obama trading one point leads in the polls... obama is a "european socialist", romney is a "vulture capitalist"...

ungghh...

54 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:46:13pm

Penalties can only deter people from committing crimes if they're enforced. Throw these bums in jail.

55 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:46:44pm

re: #52 negativ

Am I missing the part where they were arrested or any intent to charge them has been announced?

They just announced what they did yesterday this morning, so I'm guessing its still getting looked at by law enforcement.

56 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:47:27pm

re: #53 engineer dog

sigh...

the rest of the year is gonna be so boring, now... romney vs obama trading one point leads in the polls... obama is a "european socialist", romney is a "vulture capitalist"...

ungghh...

Oh no, my friend. The Ron Paul Revulsion is with us to stay throughout the primary season, and will not fail to entertain.

57 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:48:52pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They just announced what they did yesterday this morning, so I'm guessing its still getting looked at by law enforcement.

Ayep. The only news story before O'Keefe's admission was one about a mysterious person being caught trying to vote for a dead guy, but getting away before authorities could arrive. If O'Keefe hadn't spoke up, it likely would have been written off.

58 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:49:16pm

In other news, I will soon attempt to rob a bank just so you can all know that it is possible. I hope you can catch me so that my fears are assuaged and then we can all go about our business.

/

59 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:50:43pm

re: #58 JasonA

In other news, I will soon attempt to rob a bank just so you can all know that it is possible. I hope you can catch me so that my fears are assuaged and then we can all go about our business.

/

Just be sure that, when you do rob them, not to take the money. That way, you didn't actually commit a robbery.

//

61 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:51:06pm

re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Just be sure that, when you do rob them, not to take the money. That way, you didn't actually commit a robbery.

//

Oh. Nevermind...

62 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:51:14pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

LOL, he calls himself "JamesOKeefeIII" on twitter? What is he, a noble? What a douche. Or is it "I, I, I", as in "me, me, me"?

NEIN NEIN NEIN

63 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:51:58pm

re: #58 JasonA

In other news, I will soon attempt to rob a bank just so you can all know that it is possible. I hope you can catch me so that my fears are assuaged and then we can all go about our business.

/

When you do, it'll be fascinating to see how the Institutional Left responds. Because you doing it will prove that the Institutional Left has robbed banks for decades to subvert the freedoms of this nation.

Take that, Institutional Left.

64 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:52:50pm

re: #58 JasonA

In other news, I will soon attempt to rob a bank just so you can all know that it is possible. I hope you can catch me so that my fears are assuaged and then we can all go about our business.

/

And I'll walk up to a dealer, say "Marijuana" and flash him a $50, but I totally won't be attempting to buy drugs, just showing that he has them for sale.

65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:54:02pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum wants women to have lots of babies, whether they like it or not

That many Americans still take loons like this seriously, here in the 21st century, is maddening.

66 Bulworth  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:54:03pm

Good thing the Black Panther Party wasn't there at the polls to KO OKeefe in the noggin for this crap....

67 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:54:09pm

nre: #46 wrenchwench

Yup. Got a fancy tablet from my firm too. Tablet doesn't like LGF tho

68 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:54:14pm

re: #50 makeitstop

I say they roll like they've never rolled in their lives.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of O'Keefe's helpers turned himself in and offered to be a witness for the prosecution. "O'Keefe said it was legal as long as we didn't actually vote!"

69 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:54:44pm

re: #58 JasonA

In other news, I will soon attempt to rob a bank just so you can all know that it is possible. I hope you can catch me so that my fears are assuaged and then we can all go about our business.

/

Other legal assumptions to test:

Is it true that "no" only means "no" if Simon says?
Is "he who smelt, it dealt it" a valid defense against a search by a drug dog?
What about "he who denied it, supplied it?"
There are probably more.

70 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:55:14pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And I'll walk up to a dealer, say "Marijuana" and flash him a $50, but I totally won't be attempting to buy drugs, just showing that he has them for sale.

Is this the point where a joke about "not inhaling" would be appropriate?

71 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:57:59pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And I'll walk up to a dealer, say "Marijuana" and flash him a $50, but I totally won't be attempting to buy drugs, just showing that he has them for sale.

You walk up to a dealer, say "Nuggets?" and then hand him $50. As a parting gift, he'll give you some stinky dankity nuggets that will make you feel good about donating $50 to his college fund.

72 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:58:42pm

I'm not sure about voter ID fraud issues.. I see both sides.
1) 99.99% of all Americans have some sort of ID ( I pulled that number out my ass )
2) One of the reasons Indiana passed muster with SCOTUS on Voter ID laws is if you didn't have one the state would issue one to you free before the Election and you could come up with some documentation some time later...

Now what system can be gamed better for fraud?
Before the Election in Indiana I go to the DMV and get an ID to vote..I say my name is Charles Johnson.. I use that ID to get credit cards, Bank accounts and apply for Charles SS number...

73 Bulworth  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:59:20pm

As a member of the Institutional Left my response is that because someone from the OKeefe clown car was able to get a ballot on behalf of a dead person that means the only solution to stopping voter fraud is by having members of the worldwide million-man Black Panther Party at every suburban and rural voting station.

74 andres  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:59:47pm

O'Keefe: as sharp as a brick.

75 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:00:33pm

re: #72 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure about voter ID fraud issues.. I see both sides.
1) 99.99% of all Americans have some sort of ID ( I pulled that number out my ass )
2) One of the reasons Indiana passed muster with SCOTUS on Voter ID laws is if you didn't have one the state would issue one to you free before the Election and you could come up with some documentation some time later...

Now what system can be gamed better for fraud?
Before the Election in Indiana I go to the DMV and get an ID to vote..I say my name is Charles Johnson.. I use that ID to get credit cards, Bank accounts and apply for Charles SS number...

You're forgetting the multiple incidents of people legally allowed to vote being denied or charged to receive their "free" voter ID.

76 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:02:06pm

re: #72 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure about voter ID fraud issues.. I see both sides.
1) 99.99% of all Americans have some sort of ID ( I pulled that number out my ass )
2) One of the reasons Indiana passed muster with SCOTUS on Voter ID laws is if you didn't have one the state would issue one to you free before the Election and you could come up with some documentation some time later...

Now what system can be gamed better for fraud?
Before the Election in Indiana I go to the DMV and get an ID to vote..I say my name is Charles Johnson.. I use that ID to get credit cards, Bank accounts and apply for Charles SS number...

But then you're advocating diminishing our right to not have ID just so we can feel a little safer about election results. It's a crime. There are penalties if you commit said crime. This is how most of our system works.

77 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:02:22pm

re: #74 andres

O'Keefe: as sharp as a brick.

of Velveeta.

78 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:03:43pm

I'm here to vote. Is that Chuck Testa?

No, James O'Keefe

79 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:04:05pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

n

Yup. Got a fancy tablet from my firm too. Tablet doesn't like LGF tho

Which one?

80 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:04:21pm

Federal prosecutor is reviewing...

[Link: twitter.com...]

81 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:04:36pm

re: #72 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure about voter ID fraud issues.. I see both sides.
1) 99.99% of all Americans have some sort of ID ( I pulled that number out my ass )
2) One of the reasons Indiana passed muster with SCOTUS on Voter ID laws is if you didn't have one the state would issue one to you free before the Election and you could come up with some documentation some time later...

Now what system can be gamed better for fraud?
Before the Election in Indiana I go to the DMV and get an ID to vote..I say my name is Charles Johnson.. I use that ID to get credit cards, Bank accounts and apply for Charles SS number...

yeah, here's the problem. New Hampshire doesn't require ID. If fraud occurred, it can be discovered after the fact by checking rolls for zombie voters or double-claims. The rolls have been checked, repeatedly. Yet zombies and doubles haven't been found.

They COULD be gamed, but they HAVEN'T been gamed.

For what it's worth the most common fraud is ballot box stuffing by someone with official access. The most frequent method is to 'check off' voters who didn't show up and put ballots in the box based on that count. ID's won't do crap about that.

82 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:04:42pm

re: #76 JasonA

But then you're advocating diminishing our right to not have ID just so we can feel a little safer about election results. It's a crime. There are penalties if you commit said crime. This is how most of our system works.

Please Note JasonA.. I never advocated any position.. :)

83 samuraishake  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:05:06pm
He said no laws were broken during the investigation and that his team members never claimed to be the dead people whose ballots they were trying to obtain. Instead, they carefully worded the way they asked for ballots, phrasing it like: “Do you have Earnest Chavanelle?” and “Do you have Paul Soucy?”

By his logic, someone could walk into a bank and hand a teller a note that says "I have a gun. I also wish I had $10,000 right now." They could then claim that they never demanded the money from the teller, and is therefore innocent.

The law is not written around semantics, it is written around intent. They intended to obtain ballots under false pretenses.

84 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:05:21pm

re: #47 Girth

Have a nice time in prison, asshole. You won't be missed.

Maybe he'll use his time locked up to write a book, something with a catchy title, like "My Struggle" or something like that.

Nah, O'Keefe's too stupid and nowhere near as charismatic to be a Hitler-like figure.

85 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:07:15pm

re: #80 Gus 802

Federal prosecutor is reviewing...

[Link: twitter.com...]

So, what's the over/under on how long it takes Breitbart to throw O'Keefe under the bus once the feds move to prosecute?

86 Bulworth  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:07:20pm

It sounds like the best that one of OKeefe's lackies was able to do was gain access to a provisional ballot, or that he or she would have gained access to a provisional ballot if they had ID on them. So it isn't as if this fake person actually was able to enter the voting booth with their electronic voting card or whatever they use up there..

87 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:07:47pm

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Please Note JasonA.. I never advocated any position.. :)

Right, you said you saw both points, and then went on to defend just one of them. :P

88 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:07:47pm

re: #80 Gus 802

Federal prosecutor is reviewing...

[Link: twitter.com...]

“In either case, if they were intentionally going in and trying to fraudulently obtain a ballot, they violated the law,” Schultz said. “So right off the bat, what they did violated the law.”

Election law expert Rick Hasen, who writes the Election Law Blog, joked in an email to TPM that O’Keefe’s team should “next show how easy it is to rob a bank with a plastic gun.”

Who in their right mind would risk a felony conviction for this? And who would be able to do this in large enough numbers to (1) affect the outcome of the election and (2) remain undeteLcted?” Hasen wrote.

James O'Keefe, that's who.

89 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:08:18pm

re: #85 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, what's the over/under on how long it takes Breitbart to throw O'Keefe under the bus once the feds move to prosecute?

What did he do last time? I think he was just about to start throwing him under the bus but when he saw they weren't going to get in too much trouble he pulled back.

90 Hawaii69  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:09:25pm

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Looks like he can be tried in both State and Federal Court for this.

I'm sure that's what he wants.

He's likely assuming that he'll get a light/suspended sentence, and a fine (which Breirbart will pay). Then he can claim that the liberal conspiracy is
trying to silence him.

What better way to gain "credibility" as a hardcore operative than to appear persecuted and martyr yourself for the cause?

91 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:09:42pm

re: #88 darthstar

James O'Keefe, that's who.

He did say "right mind".

92 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:11:47pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

Yup. Got a fancy tablet from my firm too. Tablet doesn't like LGF tho

"LawJesus"

nope

"Jesus, Esq."

nope.

Stick with SpaceJesus.

"...my firm..." sounds cool.

93 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:11:57pm

Suck it Creationists!

Nicolas Steno: The saint who undermined creationism

For Steno, this commitment was suffused with piety. As he wrote in 1659: "One sins against the majesty of God by being unwilling to look into nature's own works."

94 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:12:05pm

I just hope this violates O'Keefe's parole and that he's forced to go back and serve his time for his previous conviction/plea. It would be great if his agreement to change from felony to misdemeanor was contingent on serving his parole honorably.

95 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:12:38pm

re: #89 Gus 802

What did he do last time? I think he was just about to start throwing him under the bus but when he saw they weren't going to get in too much trouble he pulled back.

O'Keefe's last dance with the law was over trying to bug Landrieu's phone, which his lawyer was able to argue down to a misdemeanor "entering a federal building under false pretenses."

Breitbart's reaction this time might be different, as O'Keefe's writing for his website and getting paid to allow Andy first dibs on any of his new videos. What do you wanna bet the Feds will want to discuss his involvement in James' latest stunt?

96 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:12:44pm

re: #87 JasonA

Right, you said you saw both points, and then went on to defend just one of them. :P

Did I? Maybe it came out wrong.. Was I defending getting a free ID from the State in Charles Johnson's name? I dunno...I guess what I mean is both systems are subject to Fraud with bad people gaming the system...
They can go to jail for all I care..

97 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:13:45pm

re: #72 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure about voter ID fraud issues.. I see both sides.
1) 99.99% of all Americans have some sort of ID ( I pulled that number out my ass )
2) One of the reasons Indiana passed muster with SCOTUS on Voter ID laws is if you didn't have one the state would issue one to you free before the Election and you could come up with some documentation some time later...

Now what system can be gamed better for fraud?
Before the Election in Indiana I go to the DMV and get an ID to vote..I say my name is Charles Johnson.. I use that ID to get credit cards, Bank accounts and apply for Charles SS number...

To get that "free" Indiana picture ID your'e going to need at least one other form of ID, either a birth certificate or passport, and while those don't come free they also aren't generally given out to non relatives. This means that the picture ID requirement is still nominally a poll tax and at least two instances of fraud would have to occur for one to hypothetically acquire a fake CJ picture ID.

98 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:13:51pm

re: #94 darthstar

I just hope this violates O'Keefe's parole and that he's forced to go back and serve his time for his previous conviction/plea. It would be great if his agreement to change from felony to misdemeanor was contingent on serving his parole honorably.

That will probably be the worst of this for O'Keefe. The fact that he's currently on parole.

99 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:14:47pm

re: #96 HoosierHoops

Did I? Maybe it came out wrong.. Was I defending getting a free ID from the State in Charles Johnson's name? I dunno...I guess what I mean is both systems are subject to Fraud with bad people gaming the system...
They can go to jail for all I care..

The example was laughable in how easy you seem think it is to obtain ID. First and foremost is the birth certificate, which is made even more complicated for women who have taken on a different last name.

100 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:14:57pm

re: #92 wrenchwench

"LawJesus"

nope

"Jesus, Esq."

nope.

Stick with SpaceJesus.

"...my firm..." sounds cool.

SpaceJesus, Esq.

Simple, to the point ;-P

101 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:15:59pm

LegalJesus. 'Nuff said.

102 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:16:08pm

So many fake outrages, so little time. Just realized I hadn't covered the phony story that came out this week about the Obamas' Halloween party for children of military families. I honestly can't even figure out what the outrage is supposed to be in that one.

The right is getting so weird with these stories, they're not even close to making sense any more. This O'Keefe story is a perfect example - WTF could they have been thinking, to even come up with a scheme like this?

103 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:16:22pm

re: #98 Gus 802

That will probably be the worst of this for O'Keefe. The fact that he's currently on parole.

probation for a misdemeanor, then commit a felony?...judges hate that

104 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:16:36pm

Newt's new ad rips Romney a new asshole...yes, that is redundant.

105 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:17:11pm

re: #102 Charles

So many fake outrages, so little time. Just realized I hadn't covered the phony story that came out this week about the Obamas' Halloween party for children of military families. I honestly can't even figure out what the outrage is supposed to be in that one.

The right is getting so weird with these stories, they're not even close to making sense any more. This O'Keefe story is a perfect example - WTF could they have been thinking, to even come up with a scheme like this?

Wait, how did a Halloween Party make the news this week?

106 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:17:40pm

re: #102 Charles

So many fake outrages, so little time. Just realized I hadn't covered the phony story that came out this week about the Obamas' Halloween party for children of military families. I honestly can't even figure out what the outrage is supposed to be in that one.

The right is getting so weird with these stories, they're not even close to making sense any more. This O'Keefe story is a perfect example - WTF could they have been thinking, to even come up with a scheme like this?

Just start everything with, "this is not The Onion."

107 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:18:26pm

re: #105 JasonA

Wait, how did a Halloween Party make the news this week?

They talked about it in a book that was released this week.

108 Hawaii69  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:18:46pm

....and how does trying to get a ballot in the name of a dead man at
a Republican primary show evidence of left wing fraud? Being able to
obtain them would only show that it was possible...for anyone, who
chose to vote for anyone.

Who are the liberals he "stung" in this scenario? Gloria Pilotte?

109 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:19:22pm

re: #104 darthstar

Damn that was brutal.

110 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:19:38pm

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They talked about it in a book that was released this week.

Ah, that.

111 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:20:47pm

re: #102 Charles

So many fake outrages, so little time. Just realized I hadn't covered the phony story that came out this week about the Obamas' Halloween party for children of military families. I honestly can't even figure out what the outrage is supposed to be in that one.

The right is getting so weird with these stories, they're not even close to making sense any more. This O'Keefe story is a perfect example - WTF could they have been thinking, to even come up with a scheme like this?

The whole Halloween deal is the wingnut's usual crocodile tears over the plight of the poor and downtrodden, "outraged" that Obama had a "secret" Alice-in-Wonderland themed Halloween party back in '09, and only now hearing about it through a disgruntled ex-employee's tell-all book.

Of course, like most recent "outrages," it has all the structural integrity of tissue paper, as the party was reported on by the press back in '09, but the Right paid no attention because they were too busy taking turns having screaming fits over "Obamacare."

112 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:23:14pm

re: #104 darthstar

Newt's new ad rips Romney a new asshole...yes, that is redundant.

[Video]

After Newt is out of the race, Obama 2012 should just buy that ad from them and re-brand it.

The guy comes off like a total idiot.

113 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:23:35pm

re: #111 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The whole Halloween deal is the wingnut's usual crocodile tears over the plight of the poor and downtrodden, "outraged" that Obama had a "secret" Alice-in-Wonderland themed Halloween party back in '09, and only now hearing about it through a disgruntled ex-employee's tell-all book.

Of course, like most recent "outrages," it has all the structural integrity of tissue paper, as the party was reported on by the press back in '09, but the Right paid no attention because they were too busy taking turns having screaming fits over "Obamacare."

They're pissed they weren't invited.

114 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:24:17pm

re: #104 darthstar

Obama's reelection team must have a few people employed right now doing nothing but compiling all the material that the republicans are creating for them. I truly think Obama could win doing nothing but repackaging material produced by Romney's opponents and even just clips of things they have said. There will be such a wealth of material.

115 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:24:36pm

re: #102 Charles

The right is getting so weird with these stories, they're not even close to making sense any more. This O'Keefe story is a perfect example - WTF could they have been thinking, to even come up with a scheme like this?

I've been thinking for some time that Bush Derangement Syndrome is mild compared to recent iterations of ODS. Take Clinton Derangement Syndrome, add Fox News and a much more ubiquitous internet, and whoolah!

Oh, and he's a black guy.

116 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:26:52pm

re: #113 JasonA

They're pissed they weren't invited.

Like I said, it's their long-running campaign to show how they "care" about the 99% by getting "outraged" every time Obama has the least bit of fun. He goes on vacation, they blow a gasket. He plays golf, they engage in four-letter words. He takes his wife on a date, they start spitting nails.

And if you try to bring up Bush and Crawford, they now scream that that isn't a "vacation," because he owns the place, and he spent all his time there doing upkeep and nothing else.

117 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:27:57pm

Shh. I'm trying to watch When Mitt Romney Came to Town.

118 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:29:07pm

re: #112 makeitstop

The guy comes off like a total idiot.

and all he has to do is act naturally.

Romney really is an unlikeable sod.

119 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:29:57pm

re: #115 BigPapa

Oh, and he's a black guy Plive.

120 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:30:53pm

Huh. I didn't know Bain was behind the demise of KayBee Toys.

121 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:31:44pm

re: #117 JasonA

Shh. I'm trying to watch When Mitt Romney Came to Town.

My guess is when the votes are counted and Mitt loses to Obama, the party will go after Newt for him and his PACs creating Obama's and the Dems talking points. That video is insane, and might as well be sponsored by Michelle Obama as a birthday present to her husband.

122 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:32:42pm

re: #121 Petero1818

My guess is when the votes are counted and Mitt loses to Obama, the party will go after Newt for him and his PACs creating Obama's and the Dems talking points. That video is insane, and might as well be sponsored by Michelle Obama as a birthday present to her husband.

I think it'll be the exact opposite, namely they already hate Romney, so when he loses, there will be a lot of folks going "Newt warned you, but you didn't listen!"

123 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:34:11pm

re: #120 JasonA

Huh. I didn't know Bain was behind the demise of KayBee Toys.

KayBee was on a downward slide for a long time by trying to compete with Toys-R-Us, the big box stores, and the rise of Internet retailing...Bain just pushed it over the edge.

124 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:34:19pm

re: #121 Petero1818

My guess is when the votes are counted and Mitt loses to Obama, the party will go after Newt for him and his PACs creating Obama's and the Dems talking points. That video is insane, and might as well be sponsored by Michelle Obama as a birthday present to her husband.

Too bad for me I ran out of popcorn after Iowa...

And Newt's the honeybadger. He don't give a shit.

125 Petero1818  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:36:31pm

re: #122 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think it'll be the exact opposite, namely they already hate Romney, so when he loses, there will be a lot of folks going "Newt warned you, but you didn't listen!"

Well I said the Party, I actually meant the establishment. I think it is too late. The establishment won this round. Mitt will win the nomination. I think that when he loses, they will blame Newt et al. The base, will of course be blaming Romney. Both of course will have valid points. But in the end I think that a deep fracture within the party will result from them losing. The wingnuts will go off the deep end, and in 2016 you will see them put up a Bachmann, Palin, Santorum type character.

126 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:36:37pm

re: #124 JasonA

Too bad for me I ran out of popcorn after Iowa...

And Newt's the honeybadger. He don't give a shit.

There's nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose.

127 justaminute  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:38:20pm

Breitbart, O'Keefe, it's like reading the adventures of Dumb and Dumber, the political pundit years.

128 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:38:31pm

re: #126 talon_262

There's nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose.

A man without hope is a man without fear.

Christ, now I'm quoting from Frank Miller's Daredevil...

129 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:44:18pm

re: #126 talon_262

There's nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose.

A man with nothing to lose except a painful and persistent case of hemorrhoids might be significantly more volatile.

130 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:46:18pm

re: #129 negativ

A man with nothing to lose except a painful and persistent case of hemorrhoids might be significantly more volatile.

Then Mitt is truly doomed.

131 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:47:12pm

re: #129 negativ

A man with nothing to lose except a painful and persistent case of hemorrhoids might be significantly more volatile.

That's a new meaning for "'roid rage"....

LOL

132 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:48:26pm

Romney Dog Incident

band name

133 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:51:28pm

Okay, that totally felt like it came out of a Democratic campaign. Amazing that this is where we are right now.

134 darthstar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:51:41pm

re: #132 engineer dog

Romney Dog Incident

band name

The Romney Dog Incident is the inspiration for [Link: spreadingromney.com...]

135 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:54:55pm

re: #134 darthstar

The Romney Dog Incident is the inspiration for [Link: spreadingromney.com...]

I don't know. To Romney sounds to me more like the act of farting while receiving oral sex.

"Why is Helen so pissed with you?"
"I romneyed her last night."
"Well, that explains it"

136 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:55:18pm

re: #133 JasonA

Okay, that totally felt like it came out of a Democratic campaign. Amazing that this is where we are right now.

Actually it's amazing that it took this long to get here. The Republican contenders should have prioritized destroying Romney from the get go, instead they fucked around playing "who can say the dickiest thing about Obama" until it was too late.

137 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:56:20pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

I think, on some level, they didn't really want to run for president. To run, they have to face the actual public, not the right-wing echo chamber.

138 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:56:47pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

Actually it's amazing that it took this long to get here. The Republican contenders should have prioritized destroying Romney from the get go, instead they fucked around playing "who can say the dickiest thing about Obama" until it was too late.

Yeah, there is some truth to that, but going all socialist like this is gonna leave a mark, so I get why it didn't come earlier.

139 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 2:58:51pm

re: #137 Obdicut

I think, on some level, they didn't really want to run for president. To run, they have to face the actual public, not the right-wing echo chamber.

They had to run if they want any kind of shot in 2016. The Republican Party all too often goes for whoever is next in line, and you have to actually get in that line at some point. Makes me wonder why Huck sat this one out. The Fox gig can't be that lucrative being only once a week, can it?

140 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:02:18pm

One thing is certain, Pawlenty quit way to soon. Dude has to be thinking that since Newt managed to get a second look and Santorum is now the anybody but Romney go to guy that he'd be looking pretty damned good right about now.

141 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:03:04pm

re: #140 goddamnedfrank

One thing is certain, Pawlenty quit way to soon. Dude has to be thinking that since Newt managed to get a second look and Santorum is now the anybody but Romney go to guy that he'd be looking pretty damned good right about now.

I think it was more of a money issue than anything else.

142 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:04:14pm

re: #133 JasonA

Thanks for the link.

Just finished watching it. Vicious. Plan on sending it to some of the more sane members of my family that are still considering voting republican.

143 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:05:23pm

re: #142 Bubblehead II

Thanks for the link.

Just finished watching it. Vicious. Plan on sending it to some of the more sane members of my family that are still considering voting republican.

Oh, don't thank me. Thank Newt. :)

144 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:06:03pm

re: #139 JasonA

They had to run if they want any kind of shot in 2016. The Republican Party all too often goes for whoever is next in line, and you have to actually get in that line at some point. Makes me wonder why Huck sat this one out. The Fox gig can't be that lucrative being only once a week, can it?

At the same time, it's a paying gig, one that's almost guaranteed to last through til 2015, when he can consider making a run for the nomination again. That way, he avoids stinking of the utter defeat that this year is going to bring.

145 HAL2010  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:06:24pm

Presented to you without further comment.

Let the hilarity begin in SC.

146 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:07:00pm

re: #141 JasonA

I think it was more of a money issue than anything else.

I think he panicked while making sandwiches.

147 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:07:10pm

re: #144 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

At the same time, it's a paying gig, one that's almost guaranteed to last through til 2015, when he can consider making a run for the nomination again. That way, he avoids stinking of the utter defeat that this year is going to bring.

Oh ain't that the truth. Probably one reason why Christie's sitting on the sidelines too.

148 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:08:29pm

re: #146 goddamnedfrank

I think he panicked while making sandwiches.

Or he saw the straw poll results and thought "wow, these people really are fuckin' crazy."

149 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:09:12pm

re: #145 HAL2010

Presented to you without further comment.

[Video]Let the hilarity begin in SC.

I see your video and raise you a Scottish couple arguing

150 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:09:34pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

Actually it's amazing that it took this long to get here. The Republican contenders should have prioritized destroying Romney from the get go, instead they fucked around playing "who can say the dickiest thing about Obama" until it was too late.

They are actual have to face the music. No more delusion. No more cognitive dissonance. It is time to pay the piper, Karl Rove!

151 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:11:14pm

bbiaw. Things to do in the meat world.

152 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:11:21pm

re: #149 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I see your video and raise you a Scottish couple arguing

[Video]

I'd pay money to watch them try to use Siri.

153 HAL2010  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:11:37pm

re: #149 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I see your video and raise you a Scottish couple arguing

[Video]

I see your angry Scottish couple and raise you an angry Italian-American arguing his case:

154 Four More Tears  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:13:15pm

re: #153 HAL2010

I see your angry Scottish couple and raise you an angry Italian-American arguing his case:

[Video]

I feel like I just got rick-rolled.

155 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:14:01pm

re: #153 HAL2010

I see your angry couple and raise you an angry Italian-American arguing his case:

[Video]

I loved how it lists:

8 years (small print "on the") ARMED SERVICES and leaves off committee.

156 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:14:07pm

re: #153 HAL2010

Huh. So Rick Santorum doesn't think the US is an economic superpower.

Weird.

157 HAL2010  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:15:29pm

re: #156 Obdicut

Huh. So Rick Santorum doesn't think the US is an economic superpower.

Weird.

WHY DOES RICK SANTORUM HATE AMERICA??!?!?!

158 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:15:44pm

re: #156 Obdicut

Huh. So Rick Santorum doesn't think the US is an economic superpower.

Weird.

Its all due to the plives.

159 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:16:20pm

re: #156 Obdicut

Huh. So Rick Santorum doesn't think the US is an economic superpower.

Weird.

I think it funnier that his economic plan is scored "better than Romney's plan," when they share the general theme of "pamper the rich, shit on the poor."

160 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:20:34pm

re: #148 JasonA

Or he saw the straw poll results and thought "wow, these people really are fuckin' crazy."

If anything, the huge disconnect between last year's straw poll results and this year's actual caucus outcome should forever destroy whatever remaining caché that pathetic joke of a contest holds. Pawlenty should have his head examined for thinking that it mattered at all.

161 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:21:46pm

re: #160 goddamnedfrank

If anything, the huge disconnect between last year's straw poll results and this year's actual caucus outcome should forever destroy whatever remaining caché that pathetic joke of a contest holds. Pawlenty should have his head examined for thinking that it mattered at all.

So, who wants to be the one to tell the Paulians that, despite the straw poll, he will not be winning the nomination, or the presidency?

162 HAL2010  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:21:55pm

I for one, welcome our new pony giving, Vermin overlord:

163 BongCrodny  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:23:17pm

O'Keefe's You Tube Video


Birh? Birh?

The great investigative journalist can't even spell birth?

Hey, O'Keefe -- how about you go investigate a freaking dictionary, pal?

164 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:26:21pm

re: #149 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I see your video and raise you a Scottish couple arguing

[Video]

Reminds me of one of my favorite tweets from yesterday:

Ceiling_Cat Ceiling Cat
sco.wikipedia.org Did sumwun put kittehs in Wikipedia?

Gotta go to the link for the laugh.

165 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:34:12pm

from Fox news...

New cyber regulations announced by Iran last week, including requiring Internet cafes to install surveillance cameras, could be just a precursor to the Islamic Republic’s “halal” network, many observers are saying.

looks loke the mullahs are getting ready to seal off the gen pop from the outside world

166 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:37:28pm

re: #165 albusteve

from Fox news...

New cyber regulations announced by Iran last week, including requiring Internet cafes to install surveillance cameras, could be just a precursor to the Islamic Republic’s “halal” network, many observers are saying.

looks loke the mullahs are getting ready to seal off the gen pop from the outside world

Santorum should use that as an opening to open a dialog with Iran. Maybe they can give him some pointers for when he plans to ban porn in America.

167 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:38:12pm

re: #165 albusteve

I think this could be sign they are losing control. Iran has so many issues. Khamanei and Ahmadinejad at each others's throats, an inability to hold their waters from Somalian pirates, a continual economic crisis, and an entire generation disenchanted with the Governmental concept. It is only a matter of time til something pops.

168 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:40:26pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum should use that as an opening to open a dialog with Iran. Maybe they can give him some pointers for when he plans to ban porn in America.

yeah, start building the gallows

169 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:41:37pm

re: #167 ProLifeLiberal

I think this could be sign they are losing control. Iran has so many issues. Khamanei and Ahmadinejad at each others's throats, an inability to hold their waters from Somalian pirates, a continual economic crisis, and an entire generation disenchanted with the Governmental concept. It is only a matter of time til something pops.

have to agree with that...chances are very good they will shoot themselves in the foot somehow

170 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:43:13pm

Internet cafes to install surveillance cameras, could be just a precursor to the Islamic Republic’s “halal” network

so the internet will have to be killed mercifully before they'll be able to browse it?

171 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:44:21pm

re: #169 albusteve

have to agree with that...chances are very good they will shoot themselves in the foot somehow

I'm hoping their aim is considerably higher.

172 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:45:19pm
174 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:48:51pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Iran: The Neocons Are at It Again

By Ralph Nader

Ralph, how pitiable Iran is, isn't the issue. The issue is how dangerous to everyone else they're likely to be if they have nukes.

175 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:49:08pm

re: #165 albusteve

from Fox news...

New cyber regulations announced by Iran last week, including requiring Internet cafes to install surveillance cameras, could be just a precursor to the Islamic Republic’s “halal” network, many observers are saying.

looks loke the mullahs are getting ready to seal off the gen pop from the outside world

They can try; but it can't be done, not completely. Somebody will always get through. They always have.

176 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:50:28pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Iran: The Neocons Are at It Again

By Ralph Nader

whatever, same old tired argument...learning to live with a nuclear Iran does not enthuse me...the leadership are bonafide lunatics

177 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:53:24pm

Proof that if there is a God, he has abandoned us.

'Police Academy' Remake is No Joke

178 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:53:43pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Hezbollah slams “terrorist” killing of Iranian scientist

Terrorism is an attempt to encourage fundamental political/social change through invoking fear in the civilian population. This bombing sounds very much like that and should be condemned as such, despite the previous/potential actions of the victim.

179 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:53:46pm

re: #175 reine.de.tout

Not to mention they can't push to much harder, or the government could be put in a perilous position.

They already suffered humiliation this year. That piracy incident? It occurred occurred in waters that are right up against Iran. Their own Navy can't protect its civilians from Piracy right at home. Our Navy had to step in and deal with the Somalians.

180 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:54:43pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Proof that if there is a God, he has abandoned us.

'Police Academy' Remake is No Joke

*sigh* Is nothing sacred?

181 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:56:15pm

re: #180 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*sigh* Is nothing sacred?

my body is a temple...does that count?

182 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:56:30pm

re: #178 b_sharp

Terrorism is an attempt to encourage fundamental political/social change through invoking fear in the civilian population. This bombing sounds very much like that and should be condemned as such, despite the previous/potential actions of the victim.

We were discussing that earlier. Although the killing is almost certainly illegal I don't think there are any legal ways to stop the Iranian program. Killing Bin Laden was probably illegal too. International law doesn't really provide many useful tools to deal with some very serious issues.

183 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:58:36pm

re: #182 Killgore Trout

We were discussing that earlier. Although the killing is almost certainly illegal I don't think there are any legal ways to stop the Iranian program. Killing Bin Laden was probably illegal too. International law doesn't really provide many useful tools to deal with some very serious issues.

extralegal is the name of the game these days....depending on the target, it's fine with me

184 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:59:25pm

re: #182 Killgore Trout

We were discussing that earlier. Although the killing is almost certainly illegal I don't think there are any legal ways to stop the Iranian program. Killing Bin Laden was probably illegal too. International law doesn't really provide many useful tools to deal with some very serious issues.

The end justifies the means is always a hard sell, as it should be.

185 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:59:33pm

Ok, maybe there is a God.

The 'Akira' Remake Put On Hold

186 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:59:52pm

re: #183 albusteve

extralegal is the name of the game these days...depending on the target, it's fine with me

I'm not bothered by it either. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

187 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:00:05pm

Still more proof of LGF's irrelevance -- this post is featured at The Hill:

[Link: thehill.com...]

188 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:00:44pm

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ok, maybe there is a God.

The 'Akira' Remake Put On Hold

So, to which god do I give thanks?

189 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:01:00pm

re: #187 Charles

Still more proof of LGF's irrelevance -- this post is featured at The Hill:

[Link: thehill.com...]

NOBODY IS LISTENING TO YOU!
///

snicker

190 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:01:22pm

re: #181 albusteve

my body is a temple...does that count?

Shirley.

191 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:01:52pm

Anti-war loons are back...
Demonstrators in place for president's visit

Thirty-seven-year-old graduate student Tom Alter says he's unhappy with continuing wars overseas and the high number of deportations of illegal immigrants. He chanted outside the university with other activists.

The self-described independent has been a member of the Occupy Chicago movement.

An anti-war protest was also planned near the university during Obama's appear

192 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:02:03pm

re: #188 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, to which god do I give thanks?

Probably Tzeentch in this case, but best to cover all the Chaos Gods to be sure

193 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:03:29pm

re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably Tzeentch in this case, but best to cover all the Chaos Gods to be sure

Think I'll go ahead and hedge my bets.

Hallowed are the Ori!

/

194 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:05:45pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

Anti-war loons are back...
Demonstrators in place for president's visit

More proof that

MITT IS JUST LIKE OBAMA!!1!

195 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:05:59pm

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Think I'll go ahead and hedge my bets.

Hallowed are the Ori!

/

HERETIC!

196 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:08:39pm

re: #195 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HERETIC!

Yes, I have strayed from the ways of Gravel. I shall repent in the old ways...as soon as I remember what they are.

/

197 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:10:14pm

Comedy Central: James O'Keefe Catches Himself Committing Voter Fraud

Conservatives finally have evidence of one of those voter fraud conspiracies they've been warning us about for years. This has got to be a huge vindication for them.

The only small thing is that they had to pull it off themselves. Without that, though, it would have been perfect…

198 elizajane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:12:04pm

Coming in late and a little confused -- has O'Keefe just proved that Mitt Romney stole the New Hampshire primary? That Ron Paul was robbed of his rightful triumph?
//

199 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:13:00pm

life on re: #198 elizajane

Coming in late and a little confused -- has O'Keefe just proved that Mitt Romney stole the New Hampshire primary? That Ron Paul was robbed of his rightful triumph?
//

I'm hard pressed to give a crap...that's for the addicts

200 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:13:42pm

re: #197 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Comedy Central: James O'Keefe Catches Himself Committing Voter Fraud

So, instead of vindicating the right and proving voter fraud...O'Keefe's made an ass out of himself and is likely gonna end up in Club Fed. All in all, I'd say a job well done.

201 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:21:45pm

Is this room quiet enough to discuss class warfare?

"Today, on NBC he repeated that charge after winning the New Hampshire primary. His interviewer asked if there was ANY circumstance under which it’s ok to talk about income inequality.

Mr. Romney replied: “I think it’s fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms and discussions about tax policy and the like. But the president has made it part of his campaign rally. Everywhere he goes we hear him talking about millionaires and billionaires and executives and Wall Street. It’s a very envy-oriented, attack-oriented approach and I think it will fail.”

[Link: loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com...]

202 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:22:45pm

re: #201 Decatur Deb

Is this room quiet enough to discuss class warfare?

"Today, on NBC he repeated that charge after winning the New Hampshire primary. His interviewer asked if there was ANY circumstance under which it’s ok to talk about income inequality.

Mr. Romney replied: “I think it’s fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms and discussions about tax policy and the like. But the president has made it part of his campaign rally. Everywhere he goes we hear him talking about millionaires and billionaires and executives and Wall Street. It’s a very envy-oriented, attack-oriented approach and I think it will fail.”

[Link: loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Gee, ya think the reason he's not big on class envy is because he's the class that everybody envies?

203 aagcobb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:30:34pm

re: #202 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Gee, ya think the reason he's not big on class envy is because he's the class that everybody envies?

It's not about class envy. I expect there to be rich people, and I don't mind. The problem is that with all the economic growth going to the 1%, the middle class is becoming extinct, as this link shows.

204 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:33:17pm

re: #201 Decatur Deb

Is this room quiet enough to discuss class warfare?

"Today, on NBC he repeated that charge after winning the New Hampshire primary. His interviewer asked if there was ANY circumstance under which it’s ok to talk about income inequality.

Mr. Romney replied: “I think it’s fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms and discussions about tax policy and the like. But the president has made it part of his campaign rally. Everywhere he goes we hear him talking about millionaires and billionaires and executives and Wall Street. It’s a very envy-oriented, attack-oriented approach and I think it will fail.”

[Link: loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com...]

I hate it when they call it "envy".

205 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:37:18pm

re: #202 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Gee, ya think the reason he's not big on class envy is because he's the class that everybody envies?

re: #203 aagcobb

It's not about class envy. I expect there to be rich people, and I don't mind. The problem is that with all the economic growth going to the 1%, the middle class is becoming extinct, as this link shows.

I'd have to say that most people's problems with the 1% is not that they're the 1%, but that many of those in the 1% that are in a position of political power are seemingly either tone-deaf or don't give a shit about the very real issues that affect the 99%.

It's the whole "fuck you, I've got mine" attitude that reeks and sets people off.

206 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:37:21pm

re: #203 aagcobb

It's not about class envy. I expect there to be rich people, and I don't mind. The problem is that with all the economic growth going to the 1%, the middle class is becoming extinct, as this link shows.

Ayep, the rich are driving the middle class into extinction, and Romney's answer is to put the process into fast-forward. The reason why is open to interpretation in absence of his tax records, but the current favorites are either A) because it personally benefits him or B) because Grover Norquist demands it.

207 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:37:46pm

re: #203 aagcobb

It's not about class envy. I expect there to be rich people, and I don't mind. The problem is that with all the economic growth going to the 1%, the middle class is becoming extinct, as this link shows.

the thing is, the disappearance of the middle class is gonna continue no matter who wins the election

unless and until somebody figures out a way to bodily drag manufacturing back into the united states, no politicians on either side are discussing anything that's going to do anything to fix it

208 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:39:37pm

re: #206 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ayep, the rich are driving the middle class into extinction

Hey, the poor are doing our share! There are more of us all the time!

209 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:40:37pm

re: #205 talon_262

re: #203 aagcobb

I'd have to say that most people's problems with the 1% is not that they're the 1%, but that many of those in the 1% are seemingly either tone-deaf or don't give a shit about the very real issues that affect the 99%.

It's the whole "fuck you, I've got mine" attitude that reeks and sets people off.

i worry about the 1% less than i do about the economic dynamic that makes it make sense to outsource overseas

210 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:42:31pm

Just saw I Saw the Devil. It was kinda stupid.

211 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:42:55pm

re: #205 talon_262

re: #203 aagcobb

I'd have to say that most people's problems with the 1% is not that they're the 1%, but that many of those in the 1% are seemingly either tone-deaf or don't give a shit about the very real issues that affect the 99%.

It's the whole "fuck you, I've got mine" attitude that reeks and sets people off.

And Romney is the poster child for that attitude, from his "I like to fire people" bit the other day to an incident a couple weeks back where there wasn't a single bill in his wallet that wasn't a $100. The man practically reeks "Privileged Rich Prick" whenever he shows up on the TV.

212 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:45:02pm

re: #209 engineer dog

i worry about the 1% less than i do about the economic dynamic that makes it make sense to outsource overseas

The more the separation between the 1% and the rest grows and the more the middle class shrinks, the more likely the result will be an increase in crime and civil disobedience.

213 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:46:43pm

MANCHESTER, N.H. — Campaign advisers to former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts are scrambling to avoid a prolonged and nasty battle over his business record before it does lasting damage to the front-runner.

argue that the most forceful way to rebut the mounting criticism is to prominently tell the stories of winners as well as the losers in the world of private equity: municipal pension funds that invested in his firm, Bain Capital, and rank-and-file workers hired by the companies that Mr. Romney helped turn around.

The campaign intends to cast Mr. Romney, a founder and a former chief executive of Bain Capital, as a defender of market capitalism, a bedrock principle of Republicanism, and to suggest that those who assail his business background are outside the party’s mainstream.

In his victory speech Tuesday night, Mr. Romney lamented that “desperate Republicans” were attacking the free enterprise system and the very notion of success

214 BongCrodny  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:47:51pm

Kinda sorta off topic, but maybe not so much.

Here's a help wanted ad that was posted at the jobsinme.com website today.

Portland Company is searching for an Accounts Receivable Clerk. As an Accounts Receivable Clerk you will be responsible for data entry of Accounts Receivable, research, posting and apply daily payments, and maintaining cash applications, account reconciliations, and charge backs. Candidates for this role should have strong communication, customer service and organizational skills. Proficiency with Microsoft Office applications and a bachelors degree in accounting are required for this role. This is a full time temporary opportunity, paying up to $12.00 an hour.

215 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:49:12pm

re: #213 engineer dog

MANCHESTER, N.H. — Campaign advisers to former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts are scrambling to avoid a prolonged and nasty battle over his business record before it does lasting damage to the front-runner.

argue that the most forceful way to rebut the mounting criticism is to prominently tell the stories of winners as well as the losers in the world of private equity: municipal pension funds that invested in his firm, Bain Capital, and rank-and-file workers hired by the companies that Mr. Romney helped turn around.

The campaign intends to cast Mr. Romney, a founder and a former chief executive of Bain Capital, as a defender of market capitalism, a bedrock principle of Republicanism, and to suggest that those who assail his business background are outside the party’s mainstream.

In his victory speech Tuesday night, Mr. Romney lamented that “desperate Republicans” were attacking the free enterprise system and the very notion of success

Yeah, Bain was so successful, that only 1/4 of all businesses they invested in ended up going belly-up. And the 100,000 jobs he claims were created is horseshit, cherry-picking the success stories without touching on the job losses that Bain's practices led to.

216 blueraven  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:49:46pm

I watched the History channel documentary Targeting Bin Laden last night.

This first came out in Sept or Oct so I guess I am late, but I have to say, it is very well done. Some raw footage mixed in with reenactments and a pretty harrowing narrative. I watched it on the History channel but it is available on YouTube in 7 parts

Targeting Bin Laden

217 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:51:23pm

I see it's time to discuss the burning question of the day:

Is it 'tidy' whities
or
is it 'tighty' whities
and
is it just a label for a style of men's underwear
or
is it a thinly veiled description of the men who wear them?

218 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:52:07pm

re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, Bain was so successful, that only 1/4 of all businesses they invested in ended up going belly-up. And the 100,000 jobs he claims were created is horseshit, cherry-picking the success stories without touching on the job losses that Bain's practices led to.

even when "successful", the whole concept of bain is distasteful, since "success" for them would be making a profit off of the companies that they bought, and has nothing to do with the welfare of the company itself, much less its employees

capitalism is supposed to be about people making things and providing services that people need

219 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:52:32pm

re: #214 BongCrodny

Kinda sorta off topic, but maybe not so much.

Here's a help wanted ad that was posted at the jobsinme.com website today.

Wow, that's rich!

220 blueraven  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:52:39pm

re: #217 b_sharp

I see it's time to discuss the burning question of the day:

Is it 'tidy' whities
or
is it 'tighty' whities
and
is it just a label for a style of men's underwear
or
is it a barely veiled description of the men who wear them?

yes

221 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:53:06pm

re: #217 b_sharp

I see it's time to discuss the burning question of the day:

Is it 'tidy' whities
or
is it 'tighty' whities
and
is it just a label for a style of men's underwear
or
is it a barely veiled description of the men who wear them?

(passes the joint to b_)

222 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:53:59pm

re: #218 engineer dog

even when "successful", the whole concept of bain is distasteful, since "success" for them would be making a profit off of the companies that they bought, and has nothing to do with the welfare of the company itself, much less its employees

capitalism is supposed to be about people making things and providing services that people need

Bain's business strategy is a pretty easy one to understand: Invest in a company, drive it into the ground while bleeding it dry, then force it into bankruptcy and sell off the assets. Rinse, lather, repeat.

223 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:54:54pm

re: #213 engineer dog

In his victory speech Tuesday night, Mr. Romney lamented that “desperate Republicans” were attacking the free enterprise system and the very notion of success

He's being defended by Limbaugh.

Talk radio king Rush Limbaugh has emerged as a key defender of Mitt Romney's tenure at Bain Capital, where -- his Republican and Democratic critics charge -- layoffs at companies Bain owned should be blamed on Romney.

But Limbaugh has his own tie to the venture capital firm: Bain owns Clear Channel Communications, whose subsidiary inked a $400 million, eight-year syndication deal with Limbaugh in 2008.

[...]

224 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:55:25pm

re: #221 engineer dog

(passes the joint to b_)

Thanks dude, but I'm not finished the one I have.

225 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:56:20pm

You know I've always thought that Republican attempts to expose/prevent voter fraud were a solution looking for a voter problem, and what do you know they've proved me 100% right!

226 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:56:49pm

re: #223 wrenchwench

He's being defended by Limbaugh.

That's delicious! Wouldn't that have meant that, at one time, Romney was nominally Rush's boss?

Schadenfreude is so tasty...

227 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:57:50pm

re: #223 wrenchwench

He's being defended by Limbaugh.

Watching Rush the Hutt spend the next 10 months shining Romney's ass is going to be hilarious.

228 elizajane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:00:26pm

Have people here watched the 28-minute Mitt-as-vulture film paid for by "WinningTheFuture"? It is causing remarkable convulsions among the Republican base, as represented at HotAir. Plenty of people saying "it's true, the man has no soul, I would never vote for an evil job-sucker like him." Others shouting them down, "That's a Democrat line! They're the ones who are against capitalism! We love our capitalists!"

Quite fascinating, really. If Mitt becomes the nominee, will all Republicans of whatever stripe be forced to embrace the overlord class with the same unquestioning avidity with which they have embraced war, pollution, gun violence, nativism, and all the other great things for which the Republican party now stands?

Here is the link
[Link: www.webcasts.com...]

229 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:05:03pm

re: #214 BongCrodny

Kinda sorta off topic, but maybe not so much.

Here's a help wanted ad that was posted at the jobsinme.com website today.

Hey, that's better than an unpaid internship with the same requirements!

Now there are internships where the intern pays for the privilege of working!

230 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:05:06pm

re: #228 elizajane

Have people here watched the 28-minute Mitt-as-vulture film paid for by "WinningTheFuture"? It is causing remarkable convulsions among the Republican base, as represented at HotAir. Plenty of people saying "it's true, the man has no soul, I would never vote for an evil job-sucker like him." Others shouting them down, "That's a Democrat line! They're the ones who are against capitalism! We love our capitalists!"

Quite fascinating, really. If Mitt becomes the nominee, will all Republicans of whatever stripe be forced to embrace the overlord class with the same unquestioning avidity with which they have embraced war, pollution, and all the other great things for which the Republican party now stands?

Here is the link
[Link: www.webcasts.com...]

For a lot of them, it's going to come down to the question of do they hate Democrats enough to sell their souls to a douchebag like Romney. Some will try to convince themselves that they're not really voting for him, but rather just putting him there to rubberstamp the "true conservative" Congress. But, like I've said before, there are many who believe that it would be better that they go through another 4 years of Obama than spend the next 4 defending Romney.

231 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:05:37pm

re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Watching Rush the Hutt spend the next 10 months shining Romney's ass is going to be hilarious.

I think Rush hates Romney because he's "not conservative enough." But this explains Rush's flip-flopping.

232 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:06:01pm

re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Watching Rush the Hutt spend the next 10 months shining Romney's ass is going to be hilarious.

Visual aid:

233 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:08:21pm

re: #226 talon_262

That's delicious! Wouldn't that have meant that, at one time, Romney was nominally Rush's boss?

Schadenfreude is so tasty...

Damn edit time ran out...

Mitt retired from Bain Capital in '99 to head up and save Salt Lake City's Olympic bid, but he still gets a metric shit-ton of money as a retired partner, AFAIK. Still...

234 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:12:44pm

We have a visitor.

tracer0000

Karma: 0
Registered since: Mar 14, 2007 at 9:04 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

235 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:13:22pm

re: #231 wrenchwench

I think Rush hates Romney because he's "not conservative enough." But this explains Rush's flip-flopping.

If he wore tighty whities he wouldn't be able to flip-flop.

Oh, you meant something different didn't you?

236 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:14:02pm

re: #207 engineer dog

the thing is, the disappearance of the middle class is gonna continue no matter who wins the election

unless and until somebody figures out a way to bodily drag manufacturing back into the united states, no politicians on either side are discussing anything that's going to do anything to fix it

We need to discover/invent something badass, that requires workers to produce.

Hmm, but that requires a lot of science. I'm hoping for the Public University System to come through. Ya, dreamer.

237 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:14:12pm

re: #234 wrenchwench

We have a visitor.

Boo-yah!

238 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:15:33pm

Oh brothers. Read this shit:

US marines accused of war crimes

War crimes?

239 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:16:42pm

re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, Bain was so successful, that only 1/4 of all businesses they invested in ended up going belly-up. And the 100,000 jobs he claims were created is horseshit, cherry-picking the success stories without touching on the job losses that Bain's practices led to.

The only figure I need, and hope to see is the # of jobs sent overseas via Bain "wins"

THAT number will make people think.

240 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:18:22pm

re: #238 Gus 802

Oh brothers. Read this shit:

US marines accused of war crimes

War crimes?

The US military isn't immune to having idiot members.
That said, the video still has to be verified, so it may just be a pile of crap.

241 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:20:15pm

re: #236 Stanley Sea

We need to discover/invent something badass, that requires workers to produce.

Hmm, but that requires a lot of science. I'm hoping for the Public University System to come through. Ya, dreamer.

How about a drug that cures the right of its anti-science, anti-intellectual, anti-education disposition.

242 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:20:21pm

re: #222 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Bain's business strategy is a pretty easy one to understand: Invest in a company, drive it into the ground while bleeding it dry, then force it into bankruptcy and sell off the assets. Rinse, lather, repeat.

And collect all profit during the process, oh and THE MANAGEMENT FEES. It was on NPR on my way home. Bain is fine.

243 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:20:41pm

re: #240 b_sharp

The US military isn't immune to having idiot members.
That said, the video still has to be verified, so it may just be a pile of crap.

Even if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

244 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:26:25pm

re: #238 Gus 802

Oh brothers. Read this shit:

US marines accused of war crimes

War crimes?

What does their "book" say?

245 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:27:01pm

re: #243 Gus 802

EVen if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

Either you follow the rule of law as specified by treaty or you abandon it completely, giving up the right to legally try others for similar offences. Desecrating dead bodies is illegal in most cultures, including ours (US and Canada).

It has nothing to do with not having a pair, or with being PC. The rules were determined well before PC became a catch phrase.

246 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:27:05pm

re: #241 b_sharp

How about a drug that cures the right of its anti-science, anti-intellectual, anti-education disposition.

THAT would be labeled as the "socialism" pill. No go.

247 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:27:28pm

Bye.

248 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:28:03pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Even if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

Gus doesn't mind pissing on dead bodies?

249 elizajane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:28:23pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Even if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

Sorry, but when we stoop to that level, we've won the battle for them.

Yes, I have a hard time having sympathy for dead members of the Taliban. It would have been much easier to be furious about desecrating dead German or Vietnamese soldiers, minions of a state war apparatus. Still. You're sure every body there was a super-avid volunteer Taliban soldier? You're really positively sure? And, even if so, you're OK with treating their dead like pieces of shit, because that's not particularly good publicity for our troops who are exposed to retaliation out there in the field.

But the real problem is, it's just wrong to desecrate the corpses of your enemies.

250 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:30:26pm

re: #247 Gus 802

Don't leave please.

re: #243 Gus 802

While I don't think it is a war crime, it is a violation of conduct, and the soldier need be hit with some sort of punishment.

What though, I am not sure.

251 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:31:52pm

Wow. I love it when LGF goes all bloodthirsty. // I never use em, but with this tone, its required.

On another note, just found out that my company is doing construction work on some huge scientology center in Sacramento.

Wonder if anyone's converted yet? Need to check the field.

252 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:32:22pm

re: #250 ProLifeLiberal

Don't leave please.

re: #243 Gus 802

While I don't think it is a war crime, it is a violation of conduct, and the soldier need be hit with some sort of punishment.

What though, I am not sure.

What does their book say? Should be pretty clear cut.

253 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:34:54pm

re: #249 elizajane

Sorry, but when we stoop to that level, we've won the battle for them.

Yes, I have a hard time having sympathy for dead members of the Taliban, more so than I'd have had being angry about desecrating dead German or Vietnamese soldiers. Still. You're sure every body there was a super-avid volunteer Taliban soldier? You're really positively sure? And, even if so, you're OK with treating their dead like pieces of shit, because that's not particularly good publicity for our troops who are exposed to retaliation out there in the field.

But the real problem is, it's just wrong to desecrate the corpses of your enemies.

I have no problem desecrating a dead body, I'm an atheist so a dead body is just a hunk of meat. I do have a problem with torturing the family of the person represented by the body.

I also have a problem with claiming the moral high ground while travelling the moral low ground.

254 blueraven  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:35:38pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Even if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

I think there is quite a bit of daylight between mamby pamby PC office workers and soldiers pissing on the dead.
We would be outraged if it were the other way around, and rightly so.

255 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:36:44pm

re: #251 Stanley Sea

Wow. I love it when LGF goes all bloodthirsty. // I never use em, but with this tone, its required.

On another note, just found out that my company is doing construction work on some huge scientology center in Sacramento.

Wonder if anyone's converted yet? Need to check the field.

All I want from Scientology is their money and the opportunity to laugh hysterically in their faces while making fun of a Science Fiction author's Science Fiction religion.

256 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:37:58pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Even if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

Speaking as a Marine, you don't desecrate bodies. Period. They're dead and the desecration will just piss off people, so its a wasted effort on all fronts.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:38:01pm

I think Gus' point is that the amount of outrage is inadequately exaggerated for the situation at hand.

258 blueraven  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:39:38pm

re: #254 blueraven

I think there is quite a bit of daylight between mamby pamby PC office workers and soldiers pissing on the dead.
We would be outraged if it were the other way around, and rightly so.

That said, I dont know if it reaches the level of "war crime"

259 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:39:44pm

re: #255 b_sharp

All I want from Scientology is their money and the opportunity to laugh hysterically in their faces while making fun of a Science Fiction author's Science Fiction religion.

My company is making good money off this job. Wonder what was paid to get the job tho. haha. No, we are just subs, the GC paid the price, whatever it was.

260 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:40:50pm

re: #243 Gus 802

Even if it is that's not a war crime. If we expect our Marines to be a bunch of mamby pamby PC office workers than we're lost. Screw the Guardian. People need to get a grip and grow a pair. This is the freaking Taliban we're talking about. Or have people forgotten already?

re: #245 b_sharp

Either you follow the rule of law as specified by treaty or you abandon it completely, giving up the right to legally try others for similar offences. Desecrating dead bodies is illegal in most cultures, including ours (US and Canada).

It has nothing to do with not having a pair, or with being PC. The rules were determined well before PC became a catch phrase.

I have to concur with b_sharp here, Gus. It's not an issue of PCness that some people find this alleged conduct by some Marines objectionable, it's just a matter of common sense. All eyes are on our troops over there and any hint of misconduct or bad behavior by any of our troops negates any progress the military commanders and the diplomats make in dealing with countries in the region.

I get that those Marines may have been pissed (pun intended) at their (now dead) adversaries, but the fact that anyone with a camera or phone can upload video to YT or anywhere else on the Web ought to inform the troops that it's just, at the very least, very stupid and immature when the world's eyes are on you.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

261 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:41:30pm

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

I think Gus' point is that the amount of outrage is inadequately exaggerated for the situation at hand.

Compare to the Blackwater guys in Iraq. Major ass outrage that still continues. Thank dog those folks left this blog, because they were obsessed.

Imagine. With the internet. This sucks for us.

262 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:41:44pm

Also, if all they do is pee on bodies nowadays, that's a huge progress:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

;)

263 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:43:12pm

re: #262 Sergey Romanov

BTW, a bit from there:

The Life photo also led to the U.S. Military to take further action against the mutilation of Japanese carcasses. In a memorandum dated June 13, 1944, the Army JAG asserted that “such atrocious and brutal policies” in addition to being repugnant also were violations of the laws of war, and recommended the distribution to all commanders of a directive pointing out that “the maltreatment of enemy war dead was a blatant violation of the 1929 Geneva Convention on the sick and wounded, which provided that: After every engagement, the belligerent who remains in possession of the field shall take measures to search for wounded and the dead and to protect them from robbery and ill treatment.” Such practices were in addition also in violation of the unwritten customary rules of land warfare and could lead to the death penalty.[42] The Navy JAG mirrored that opinion one week later, and also added that “the atrocious conduct of which some U.S. servicemen were guilty could lead to retaliation by the Japanese which would be justified under international law”.[42]

264 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:44:39pm

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

I think Gus' point is that the amount of outrage is inadequately exaggerated for the situation at hand.

I certainly hope that's the case; war crimes they might not be, but desecration of enemy corpses in the YouTube age is plain stupid and immature.

For soldiers to ponder on in the future: you may think about it, but don't do it if you don't want the whole world to know about it and don't want to have a black mark on your career.

265 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:45:11pm

All as this is going on.

A former squad mate of a Marine implicated in one of the Iraq War's highest profile war crimes cases testified Tuesday that the group raced to nearby homes after a roadside bombing, firing rounds and tossing grenades for 45 minutes, even though the Marines did not take gunfire, come across a single insurgent or find a weapon.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

266 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:45:49pm

the seething never ends...
long live the Seeth!

267 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:46:23pm

re: #256 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking as a Marine, you don't desecrate bodies. Period. They're dead and the desecration will just piss off people, so its a wasted effort on all fronts.

It reminds me of Fallujah 2004, the contractors burned and hung from a bridge. Not necessarily in the degree of desecration, but in principle, being counter productive and just pissing people off.

Anyway, if we've given up on winning hearts and minds then why the hell are we there? The whole mission has turned into some kind of Sisyphean hell chore.

268 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:47:20pm

Hell, not "desecrating the dead" is even covered by Sun Tzu. You just don't do it.

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:47:26pm

re: #264 talon_262


OK, now that I looked it up...
Actually, it seems they may be war crimes. War crimes are not limited to murder or torture. It's a violation of established laws of war. Which may have happened in this case. Cf. [Link: www.law.emory.edu...]

270 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:47:28pm

re: #267 goddamnedfrank

It reminds me of Fallujah 2004, the contractors burned and hung from a bridge. Not necessarily in the degree of desecration, but in principle, being counter productive and just pissing people off.

Anyway, if we've given up on winning hearts and minds then why the hell are we there? The whole mission has turned into some kind of Sisyphean hell chore.


agreed, come home

271 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:48:55pm

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

I think Gus' point is that the amount of outrage is inadequately exaggerated for the situation at hand.

Outrage where?
In my mind it's just a simple statement of the way things are. Pissing on a dead Taliban may be more acceptable than pissing on a dead Christian to many but it's still within the range of low road actions.

272 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:49:26pm

re: #270 albusteve

agreed, come home

At least we're out of Iraq, which is a good thing because Rick Perry tells me that Iranians can literally move at the speed of light.

273 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:49:36pm

re: #268 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hell, not "desecrating the dead" is even covered by Sun Tzu. You just don't do it.

And they damaged their country. May be exaggerated, but we will see how far this goes.

274 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:50:06pm

re: #271 b_sharp

In the Guardian. However, the Guardian may technically be correct... IANAL, of course.

275 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:51:09pm

re: #270 albusteve

agreed, come home

Ditto. Call up the Taliban, work something out, and bring the troops home. After that, if Karzai can't get his shit together, then he's on his own.

276 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:52:14pm

re: #259 Stanley Sea

My company is making good money off this job. Wonder what was paid to get the job tho. haha. No, we are just subs, the GC paid the price, whatever it was.

Money is money. Just make sure you infest the building with all the extra engrams you can find.

277 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:53:00pm

re: #271 b_sharp

Outrage where?
In my mind it's just a simple statement of the way things are. Pissing on a dead Taliban may be more acceptable than pissing on a dead Christian to many but it's still within the range of low road actions.

Level of outrage? I was sick to my stomach upon hearing about it.

Then the line is drawn between those who think its just fine (those taliban fuckers) and those who don't. Kind of a moral issue I guess.

278 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:54:02pm

re: #275 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ditto. Call up the Taliban, work something out, and bring the troops home. After that, if Karzai can't get his shit together, then he's on his own.

invest in poppies

279 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:54:11pm

re: #275 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ditto. Call up the Taliban, work something out, and bring the troops home. After that, if Karzai can't get his shit together, then he's on his own.

Or don't call up the Taliban. Just pack up one night while everyone's asleep, leave a note on the pillow saying "We love you long time" and vanish like Kaiser Soze.

280 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:54:23pm

In case anyone is still conflicted: Pam is positively orgasmic over the Marines video.

281 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:54:45pm

re: #280 Alouette

In case anyone is still conflicted: Pam is positively orgasmic over the Marines video.

Oh joy...

282 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:54:47pm

re: #274 Sergey Romanov

In the Guardian. However, the Guardian may technically be correct... IANAL, of course.

I heard the story on NPR. It's being investigated, but in the meanwhile, reported.

283 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:54:50pm

re: #262 Sergey Romanov

Also, if all they do is pee on bodies nowadays, that's a huge progress:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

;)

Lamp shades.

284 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:55:33pm

re: #280 Alouette

In case anyone is still conflicted: Pam is positively orgasmic over the Marines video.

yawn

285 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:55:36pm

re: #280 Alouette

In case anyone is still conflicted: Pam is positively orgasmic over the Marines video.

Thanks, I didn't want to sleep tonight anyway.

/

286 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:56:15pm

re: #280 Alouette

In case anyone is still conflicted: Pam is positively orgasmic over the Marines video.

And that says it all.

287 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:57:34pm

re: #268 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hell, not "desecrating the dead" is even covered by Sun Tzu. You just don't do it.

Apollo in Iliad, Book 24

"But this man here, once he took Hector's life,
ties him behind his chariot, then drags him
around his dear companion's burial mound.
He's done nothing to help or honour him.
He should take care he doesn't anger us.
Though he's a fine man, in this rage of his
he's harming senseless dust."

288 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:58:32pm

Does anyone go the route of "young guys in bad situation, not using good judgement?"

I'm conflicted. I definitely feel that that could be an excuse, but since when has our military been anything but young guys in bad situations?

289 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:00:27pm

re: #288 Stanley Sea

TBH I cannot gin up much outrage about this when so much shit happens to live people. Kick these bozos in the nuts, court-martial them and that's that.

290 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:01:20pm

re: #288 Stanley Sea

Does anyone go the route of "young guys in bad situation, not using good judgement?"

I'm conflicted. I definitely feel that that could be an excuse, but since when has our military been anything but young guys in bad situations?

I blame Grand Theft Auto

291 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:02:02pm

re: #280 Alouette

In case anyone is still conflicted: Pam is positively orgasmic over the Marines video.

Seen it before:

292 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:02:05pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

All as this is going on.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Shit happens, war is hell and humans do revert. Maybe we should give up pretending war can be ethical. We need to admit we sometimes have to protect our asses, and to do so we hand our opponents their asses but we need to do it without assigning any morals to actions by any participant.

293 Cap'n Magic  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:02:45pm

"Those people, who have lost a sense of history, are going to have to relive it themselves."

That's how they got Kervorkian - he filmed his last euthanisia and dared the Attorney General to come after him. The Bait-barts will howl like mad if an indictment is handed down, but this could backfire on him bigtime if he was communciating with these perps-you can toss in a conspiracy charge on old Andy.

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:02:53pm

Here is the relevant modern law: [Link: www.icrc.org...]

295 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:03:39pm

re: #274 Sergey Romanov

In the Guardian. However, the Guardian may technically be correct... IANAL, of course.

Gotcha.

296 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:04:43pm

perfect time to post some Stones

297 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:04:57pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Level of outrage? I was sick to my stomach upon hearing about it.

Then the line is drawn between those who think its just fine (those taliban fuckers) and those who don't. Kind of a moral issue I guess.

Like the saying goes, you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. For our guys to spend sometimes multiple tours in-country and in combat, more than a few of them are going to break under the pressure sooner or later and we've seen that. No matter how often the brass drills the proper procedures, policies, and ROEs into them, when it comes down to actual combat (and lengthy doses of it), people tend to lean on the basest instincts of human nature.

We ask a lot of our troops, perhaps too much...Sherman had it right when he said war is hell.

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:05:23pm
The prohibition of mutilating dead bodies in international armed conflicts is covered by the war crime of “committing outrages upon personal dignity” under the Statute of the International Criminal Court, which according to the Elements of Crimes also applies to dead persons (see commentary to Rule 90).[8]
299 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:05:32pm

re: #250 ProLifeLiberal

That could potentially fall under conduct unbecoming in the UCMJ.

300 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:05:46pm

re: #275 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ditto. Call up the Taliban, work something out, and bring the troops home. After that, if Karzai can't get his shit together, then he's on his own.

The war with the Taliban has to end one of two ways, by talking and signing, or by wiping them out. The latter isn't really possible.

301 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:06:44pm

re: #278 albusteve

invest in poppies

Now there is a business opportunity.

302 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:07:32pm

re: #300 b_sharp

The war with the Taliban has to end one of two ways, by talking and signing, or by wiping them out. The latter isn't really possible.

they're gonna get droned for the next 50 years anyway...pull lout the boots...I don't give a rats ass about the fucking Talis

303 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:07:59pm

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

The US is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court, IIRC. Still doesn't make what allegedly happened right though.

304 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:08:20pm
305 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:09:20pm

re: #296 albusteve

perfect time to post some Stones

Polished stones.

306 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:09:36pm

re: #299 lawhawk

I had a feeling that was the case.

Types of punishments for that?

307 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:10:12pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

Mississippi judge blocks release of pardoned prisoners

There be payoffs of some sort in this. I don't get it. Hayley Barbour? GOP tough on crime?

308 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:10:55pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

Mississippi judge blocks release of pardoned prisoners

Gov. Haley Barbour sez:

[...]some people misunderstand the clemency process and believe that most of the individuals were still jailed.
"Approximately 90 percent of these individuals were no longer in custody, and a majority of them had been out for years," he said in a statement.
"The pardons were intended to allow them to find gainful employment or acquire professional licenses as well as hunt and vote. My decision about clemency was based upon the recommendation of the Parole Board in more than 90 percent of the cases," Barbour wrote. "The 26 people released from custody due to clemency is just slightly more than one-tenth of 1 percent of those incarcerated."
Half of the 26 releases involved people whose health care expenses "were costing the state so much money," he said.

Barbour, you putz...

309 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:12:23pm

re: #307 Stanley Sea

There be payoffs of some sort in this. I don't get it. Hayley Barbour? GOP tough on crime?

End of term pardons are not unusual in the South. Often they're used to get worn out geriatric prisoners out of the system. Does anyone have the age breakdown on these guys?

310 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:12:27pm

re: #306 ProLifeLiberal

Big rocks to little rocks; dishonorable/bad conduct discharge, etc. It would depend on the specifics.

311 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:12:30pm

Sweet Virginia
Stones

312 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:17:16pm

re: #299 lawhawk

That could potentially fall under conduct unbecoming in the UCMJ.

If this incident indeed happened as it's been said to have, I hope that the responsible parties get impartial proceedings to determine whether they'll continue to be Marines.

There are reasons why this sort of conduct is looked at as severely as it is...lessons from WWI & WWII run deep.

313 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:18:15pm

re: #308 talon_262

Gov. Haley Barbour sez:

Barbour, you putz...

He sounds like a democrat. Again, I don't get it. Unless he was always human and could only show it upon retirement, and the decision NEVER to run for GOP office again.

314 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:19:08pm

re: #310 lawhawk

In your opinion on this case? Since you are familiar with law.

315 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:21:09pm

re: #303 talon_262

The US is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court, IIRC. Still doesn't make what allegedly happened right though.

Sure, the point is that it most probably does fall under the war crimes category. Despoiling of the bodies is prohibited by Geneva and does not depend on the Rome statute. What is relevant in this quote is classification of desecration as a war crime.

PS: fun bit: "The seven countries that voted against the treaty were Iraq, Israel, Libya, the People's Republic of China, Qatar, the United States, and Yemen.[5]"

316 zora  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:21:40pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

Mississippi judge blocks release of pardoned prisoners

On his way out the door, Barbour approved full pardons for 199 people, including 14 convicted murderers, according to documents the Mississippi secretary of state's office released Tuesday.
The four murderers who received full pardons last week -- David Gatlin, Joseph Ozment, Charles Hooker and Anthony McCray -- were cited in Green's order.
They were all serving life sentences and worked as inmate trusties at the governor's mansion,
said Suzanne Singletary, spokeswoman for the Mississippi Department of Corrections. Trusties are inmates who can receive additional rights through good behavior.

still trying to figure out how lifers that are convicted murderers get to be trustees at the governor's mansion.

317 zora  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:22:58pm

re: #307 Stanley Sea

There be payoffs of some sort in this. I don't get it. Hayley Barbour? GOP tough on crime?

gop are less tough on crime of you are a born again christian. maybe this situation is similar to huckabees.

318 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:22:59pm

re: #315 Sergey Romanov

Sure, the point is that it most probably does fall under the war crimes category. Despoiling of the bodies is prohibited by Geneva and does not depend on the Rome statute. What is relevant in this quote is classification of desecration as a war crime.

PS: fun bit: "The seven countries that voted against the treaty were Iraq, Israel, Libya, the People's Republic of China, Qatar, the United States, and Yemen.[5]"

Nice company we keep (excluding Israel, which hasn't signed it for likely the same reasons we haven't, which is the hypothetical that unfriendly countries would attempt to haul our troops in front of the court).

319 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:25:48pm

re: #315 Sergey Romanov

Sure, the point is that it most probably does fall under the war crimes category. Despoiling of the bodies is prohibited by Geneva and does not depend on the Rome statute. What is relevant in this quote is classification of desecration as a war crime.

PS: fun bit: "The seven countries that voted against the treaty were Iraq, Israel, Libya, the People's Republic of China, Qatar, the United States, and Yemen.[5]"

The US had such august company.

320 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:28:43pm

Typical con sociopathy.

Accuse everyone else of cheating and criminality, when you yourself are the cheat and the criminal.

321 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:34:01pm

re: #316 zora

still trying to figure out how lifers that are convicted murderers get to be trustees at the governor's mansion.

EXACTLY. wtf? Governor? Security?

322 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:34:45pm

re: #316 zora

still trying to figure out how lifers that are convicted murderers get to be trustees at the governor's mansion.

If they're not on Death Row, many lifers in a lot of state prisons can earn the opportunity to work as a trustee (on or off the prison grounds) with good behavior.

I guess it would depend on the person and their specific offense, but I agree that four murderers working at the MS gov's mansion is a headscratcher.

323 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:38:51pm

re: #322 talon_262

If they're not on Death Row, many lifers in a lot of state prisons can earn the opportunity to work as a trustee (on or off the prison grounds) with good behavior.

I guess it would depend on the person and their specific offense, but I agree that four murderers working at the MS gov's mansion is a headscratcher.

New Christians, recommended by some big group that paid for the new pool. Something like that. (cheapest labor evah)

324 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:40:54pm

re: #322 talon_262

If they're not on Death Row, many lifers in a lot of state prisons can earn the opportunity to work as a trustee (on or off the prison grounds) with good behavior.

I guess it would depend on the person and their specific offense, but I agree that four murderers working at the MS gov's mansion is a headscratcher.

I suspect they are quite old.

325 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:44:03pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

I suspect they are quite old.

Wrong about that--they seem to be in their 40s and 50s.

326 Stanghazi  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:47:58pm

re: #325 Decatur Deb

Wrong about that--they seem to be in their 40s and 50s.

Weird.

327 simoom  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:29:54pm

[Link: www.bostonherald.com...]

A grieving New Hampshire widow said she was stunned to learn her beloved husband’s identity was used for a political gotcha — just 10 days after his death.

“That’s awful,” Rachel Groux said. “Why should they use his name? They shouldn’t use anybody’s name — alive or deceased.”

Activist filmmaker James O’Keefe secretly recorded video showing his operative using Roger Groux’s name and address to obtain a Republican ballot at Manchester polls Tuesday. The U.S. Navy veteran died Dec. 31 at an assisted living home. His family held funeral services Monday, his widow said. “Oh my God, I know what he would say, ‘Call the cops, call the police,’ ” Rachel Groux said.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 11:17:45pm

re: #84 talon_262

Nah, O'Keefe's too stupid and nowhere near as charismatic to be a Hitler-like figure.

He's a whiner, not a Fuehrer.


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