Breitbart Blogger on Taliban Video: ‘Pile Them Up, Piss On Them’

Right wing bloodthirstiness surges
US News • Views: 26,611

The Atlantic’s Steve Clemons asks a question about the video that surfaced this week, showing US Marines urinating on dead Taliban: US Soldiers Give Ammo to Taliban.

As Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, US military officers — incumbents and retired — and others in DC’s firmament condemn the US soldiers that apparently urinated on dead Taliban militants, I’m wondering how long it will take for a movement to grow inside the United States that embraces the soldiers and the “pissing act” that Panetta has called “deplorable.”

Wonder no longer, Steve. Andrew Breitbart’s website, as always, leads the way into the gutter.

After ranting for eight paragraphs, Breitbart blogger Robert K. Wilcox gets to the point:

Pile them up, let them rot, piss on them.

Let me be clear — I have absolutely no sympathy for the Taliban and their Dark Ages religious fanaticism. They are a plague on the region. They commit monstrous acts of repression and violence. They’re really, really bad people.

But that doesn’t give US soldiers a license to desecrate dead bodies.

These Marines, if they really did what they’re being accused of, have dishonored their uniforms. If you look around the web today, you’ll find that the people who are the most critical of this debased act are … other Marines. And the Pentagon has opened an investigation, because this is such a clear violation of the rules of military conduct for US soldiers.

But in the right wing blogs, this ugly behavior is not just being excused — they’re celebrating it.

UPDATE at 1/12/12 11:59:18 am

Anti-Muslim hate group leader Pamela Geller goes even farther, adding in some of her trademark bigotry:

I love these Marines. Perhaps this is the infidel interpretation of the Islamic ritual of washing and preparing the body for burial.

Jump to bottom

187 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:38:07am

We are supposed to be *better* than these guys, remember, Andrew?

2 Kragar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:38:19am

Yes, because desecrating the dead is what made America great.

Its easy to see why fucknut never served in the military.

3 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:39:27am
Pile them up, let them rot, piss on them.

Pam expresses similar sentiments, if anyone wants to suit up in hazmat gear and retrieve her comments.

4 Lidane  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:39:45am

re: #1 ralphieboy

We are supposed to be *better* than these guys, remember, Andrew?

But we ARE better than those guys. We're American. That makes us exceptional, don'tcha know.

Why do you hate America?

///

5 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:40:05am

Reposted from previous thread:
=======================
The footage of the soldiers urinating on the dead taliban terrorists is deplorable. As far as I am concerned, any taliban fighter is fair game as far as being marked for extinction. They are among the most odious cretins on Earth. They torture and oppress women, they murder innocents, and I will never mourn the death of a single one. But we are not taliban, nor should we ever sink to that level. The terrorists were dead. That is enough. Desecrating their bodies is a shameful act that allows our enemies to say "See ... Americans are capable of unspeakable evil." Those marines are not heroes and they bring shame to the millions of other marines who have served with distinction.

6 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:40:28am

An army is not a mob of patriots. They are a disciplined force. When they are not disciplined, very bad things follow.

We also have put enormous strains on the military. We have fought long, frustrating wars. This is no excuse for these soldiers, but our military badly needs time to regroup, to figure out what we've actually learned, and to address how to become the military the next generation will need. And it's going to be radically different from today.

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:40:52am

Providing the Taliban with further grounds for outrage is tanamount to "giving aid to the enemy" in the practical sense. And it has not just enraged Taliban, it has enraged a lot of people who would otherwise be inclined to not support the Taliban.

And there are jerkwads celebrating the fact that we have managed to make life a lot more difficult for the other soldiers we have sent there to do their job.

8 Kragar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:41:41am

Based on reading Sun Tzu, Breitbart is obviously a Taliban agent and should be arrested post haste.

To further strengthen his people’s resolve, General Tian Di sent spies into the camp of the Yan army to spread rumors that the people of the city would definitely surrender in fear if only the Yan soldiers were to “cut off the noses” of any captured Qi soldiers and also “dig up the graves of buried Qi ancestors”.

The new Yan army general fell for these lies and ordered his soldiers to do these exact things. As General Tian Di anticipated, these actions of savagery and desecration of the tombs so infuriated his troops and the residents of the city that they resolved to fight on at all costs.

To a cell with him!

9 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:41:50am

This is what I mean when I quote, "What you resist, you become."

By indulging in this behaviour these Marines have let themselves become what they are fighting; heartless souls, devoid of empathy and honour.

Sad.

10 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:42:59am

Zedushka discovered the "G4" Channel. Last night he watched an episode of "Bomb Patrol: Afghanistan" and declared that it is his new favorite show, replacing "Spooks."

11 Kragar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:44:26am

And I must depart for a while.

12 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:44:27am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes, because desecrating the dead is what made America great.

Its easy to see why fucknut never served in the military.

"And if a crying child should run at the corpse, screaming "Daddy", just clothesline him."

13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:44:49am

The first person on the right who blames the President for this is dead to me.

14 mr.fusion  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:44:51am

re: #1 ralphieboy

We are supposed to be *better* than these guys, remember, Andrew?

As John McCain said:

It's not about them, it's about us

15 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:45:39am

re: #13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The first person on the right who blames the President for this is dead to me.

Which President of which country?

16 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:45:45am

Breitbart's new motto: "Give Piss a Chance!"

17 im_gumby_damnit  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:45:49am

I don't see how anyone could applaud conduct like this that is going to lead directly to additional violence against U.S. military personnel. They may as well have stamped it "Taliban Propaganda -- Exhibit A" and hand delivered it to Mullah Omar.

18 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:45:50am

The video footage is evidence of conduct unbecoming a member of the US Armed Forces under the UCMJ. It's also a violation of a standing policy against filming/photographing the deceased.

Both are punishable under the UCMJ; 47 USC 933 (conduct unbecoming) 47 USC 934 (general offenses/catchall provision).

We're supposed to be better than the Taliban. We're supposed to be better than what the videos depict, which is why they're so distressing and why anyone who's seen them has generally responded as Sec. Def. Panetta or Sen. John McCain, or Afghan leader Hamid Karzai or the ISAF leaders.

No excuses.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:46:39am

re: #1 ralphieboy

We are supposed to be *better* than these guys, remember, Andrew?

This is, as I see it, and as I've argued before, one of the deep, core, misunderstandings that many wingnuts bring to the idea of war against Islamist terror.

They see the strength of the enemy as lying in fanatic belief, uniformity of thought, ruthlessness, dividing the world into us and them, and a willingness to commit atrocities.

They believe, quite seriously, that our weakness lies in NOT BEING LIKE THAT.

So the idea of conventions of warfare, purity of arms, being angry with soldiers for desecrating corpses, this they just see as weakness. And the only way to combat weakness is with what they've identified as strength--so they'll actually speak up for torture, for pissing on bodies, for whatever it takes, not to get whatever the job is done, but also to demonstrate to the world and mostly to ourselves, that we are just as fanatical, violent and badass as anyone.

We're talking here about people who have secretly already put themselves up in a dick-measuring contest against al-Qaeda, and secretly fear that they have lost.

People who believe sincerely in a clash of civilizations, except they think theirs is kind of dorky and has too many dumb rules.

It's pathological.

20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:48:01am

re: #15 EmmmieG

(oh. President Obama. I hated seeing the Abu G pics hung on President Bush.)

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:48:22am

re: #14 mr.fusion

As John McCain said:

It's not about them, it's about us

Breitbart's ilk honestly do not understand what that means.

22 Ming  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:48:43am

I remember years ago, a famous historian of World War II., Steven Ambrose I think, said on TV that during that war, residents of towns were always happy when it was American troops who entered their neighborhoods. They had misgivings about troops from other countries, but they were happy to see Americans.

That's one important thing that made America exceptional. With the torture (e.g. Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo) of the George W. Bush years, we've lost some of that. Hopefully we'll regain it soon.

23 mikec6666  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:49:02am

First, Breitbart does what he does best. Self promote. Second,
let's remember that the men/women that fight these wars are young and make mistakes that young people make. They're not thinking about the news cycle. They just want to show how macho they are. Been there, done that. Doesn't always work out.

24 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:49:06am

re: #18 lawhawk

Once verified that is. I have a small bit of (unlikely I know) hope it's a hoax of some sort.

25 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:49:10am

Pissing on dead soldiers =

book burning
pitchforks
flogging
public executions

26 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:50:06am

re: #6 Obdicut

An army is not a mob of patriots. They are a disciplined force. When they are not disciplined, very bad things follow.

We also have put enormous strains on the military. We have fought long, frustrating wars. This is no excuse for these soldiers, but our military badly needs time to regroup, to figure out what we've actually learned, and to address how to become the military the next generation will need. And it's going to be radically different from today.

Obdi, can you do me a favour and fuck up once in a while? I'm starting to believe you are an extraterrestrial or can read minds.

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:50:54am

re: #23 mikec6666

First, Breitbart does what he does best. Self promote. Second,
let's remember that the men/women that fight these wars are young and make mistakes that young people make. They're not thinking about the news cycle. They just want to show how macho they are. Been there, done that. Doesn't always work out.

I'm a lot less disdainful of people in combat who screw up than I am of people sitting comfortably at home, suggesting that the troops should be allowed to loot and plunder a bit, for the entertainment of middle-aged bloggers with revenge fantasies.

28 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:51:56am

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(oh. President Obama. I hated seeing the Abu G pics hung on President Bush.)

The Commander in Chief always bears ultimate responsibility for the actions of those who serve. Part of the job description.

29 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:52:49am

re: #24 Rightwingconspirator

Yes, my comment presupposes that they are caught, investigated, and charged.

Investigations are currently underway to determine who was involved.

30 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:53:13am

I almost can't believe Wilcox wrote this line and didn't edit it out of his stupid essay:

How quick we forget the blood curdling screams of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl. Are urinations on lifeless bodies anything near that?

Confirms what SFZ wrote in #19.

31 Lidane  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:53:37am

re: #29 lawhawk

Yes, my comment presupposes that they are caught, investigated, and charged.

Investigations are currently underway to determine who was involved.

I hope they find them and prosecute them. Yes, the Taliban are bastards, but a Marine should know better.

32 mikec6666  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:54:21am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not excusing it. They will get in trouble, no doubt about it (careers are probably done). But we should remember that they were sent to kill that man. And that's what they did. Then they took it a bit far.

33 aagcobb  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:54:39am

re: #26 b_sharp

Obdi, can you do me a favour and fuck up once in a while? I'm starting to believe you are an extraterrestrial or can read minds.

He misinterprets US v. Wong Kim Ark, if that is any consolation.

34 Ming  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:55:32am

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Very good point! I agree completely. It's like the fanatics on the right assume that the "other side" is completely focused on how much they hate us, and the only way to survive is to (likewise) be completely focused on how much we hate them.

35 aagcobb  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:55:44am

Drones don't urinate. This is another good reason to get our troops out of Afghanistan and kill our enemies remotely.

36 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:56:29am

re: #35 aagcobb

Drones don't urinate. This is another good reason to get our troops out of Afghanistan and kill our enemies remotely.

Won't be long before Breitbart advocates building drones that piss on the people they have just bombed...

37 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:56:45am

re: #26 b_sharp

Obdi, can you do me a favour and fuck up once in a while? I'm starting to believe you are an extraterrestrial or can read minds.

Let's ban alcohol again, but this time, we just ban anything with less than 12% alcohol. Call it the "Lets Get Serious" amendment.

38 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:56:45am

re: #33 aagcobb

He misinterprets US v. Wong Kim Ark, if that is any consolation.

and he called Romney "Rodney" at the start of the previous thread ..... but we still love him! (BTW ... I'm guessing spell check is actually to blame for that one!)

39 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:57:06am

re: #32 mikec6666

I'm not excusing it. They will get in trouble, no doubt about it (careers are probably done). But we should remember that they were sent to kill that man. And that's what they did. Then they took it a bit far.

Members of the Taliban are still someone's brother / father / son / husband. Their families may or may not have supported their actions, and may or may not even have believed they were Taliban. "Mistakes are made." But I guarantee that if a Taliban pissed on some dead US Marines, everyone in the Marines' home town would be calling for immediately slaughtering the entire village where it happened. Humans are like that, as history shows.

These Marines could very well cause innocent people to come to harm by their actions.

40 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:57:19am

re: #3 Alouette

Sure send me off to do the dirty work.

"I love these Marines. Perhaps this is the infidel interpretation of the Islamic ritual of washing and preparing the body for burial."

"So let me be perfectly clear. I DO love those Marines. We are at war with an enemy that means to slaughter us and overthrow the United States of America. I don't CAIR that these Marines wee wee'ed on murderous savages."

Classy Pam Classy.

Now I need to go shower.

41 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:57:26am

re: #35 aagcobb

Drones don't urinate. This is another good reason to get our troops out of Afghanistan and kill our enemies remotely.

They have found that drone pilots can suffer PTSD. It's not a cure for everything.

42 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:57:43am

re: #36 ralphieboy

Won't be long before Breitbart advocates building drones that piss on the people they have just bombed...

reminds me of the quote: "Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining."

43 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:57:43am

re: #38 _RememberTonyC

Holy crap, I didn't even notice that. I think it helps that he does look like a Rodney. Rodney Romney would be a great name.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:57:44am

re: #35 aagcobb

Drones don't urinate. This is another good reason to get our troops out of Afghanistan and kill our enemies remotely.

I am having an unfortunately vivid image of a drone lifting its leg on a tree.

45 Lidane  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:59:04am

Completely OT, but Breitbart's fake pimp e-mailed people about his voter fraud stunt:

James O’Keefe Says $50K Donation Funded Voter Fraud Stunt

I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't that make whoever gave the money just as liable for any illegal activity?

46 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:59:12am

re: #43 Obdicut

Holy crap, I didn't even notice that. I think it helps that he does look like a Rodney. Rodney Romney would be a great name.

it just humanizes you!

47 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 11:59:38am

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

it just humanizes you!

I also have a phobia of cloth touching my teeth.

48 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:00:02pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

I am having an unfortunately vivid image of a drone lifting its landing gear on a tree.

FTFY

49 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:00:11pm

Pamela Geller, disgusting as always:

I love these Marines. Perhaps this is the infidel interpretation of the Islamic ritual of washing and preparing the body for burial.

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:00:45pm

re: #49 Charles

Pamela Geller, disgusting as always:

I wouldn't piss up her ass if her guts were on fire...

51 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:00:49pm

re: #47 Obdicut

I also have a phobia of cloth touching my teeth.

I also have the same issue with hot lead projectiles and my skin ...

52 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:00:54pm

re: #23 mikec6666

First, Breitbart does what he does best. Self promote. Second,
let's remember that the men/women that fight these wars are young and make mistakes that young people make. They're not thinking about the news cycle. They just want to show how macho they are. Been there, done that. Doesn't always work out.

On your second point, I understand. Young, at the end of a highly emotional event loaded with adrenaline, I can understand how it happens and could see myself doing the same thing, at that time and place at the same age. This is why they should be judged by their peers. This is also the reason why the US deploys 'professional soldiers' who volunteer, to control this stuff.

The Taliban is not encumbered by those rules. We are, we have made that choice to be encumbered by those rules. That is why the there is an investigation and probably discharge or punishment.

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:01:41pm

re: #50 ralphieboy

I wouldn't piss up her ass if her guts were on fire...

That's a very...vivid...image.

54 aagcobb  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:01:52pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

They have found that drone pilots can suffer PTSD. It's not a cure for everything.

Maybe we should get twelve year olds to pilot them and tell them it's a video game./

55 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:02:03pm

re: #13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The first person on the right who blames the President for this is dead to me.

See: Marine Video: Why Doesn't The Media Blame It On Obama?

Remember half a decade ago,  when the media was pushing story after story about “atrocities” and “torture” in Iraq?  There were real acts of cowardly and dishonorable behavior by soldiers in some instances,  and they were prosecuted for it.  But do you remember the media analysis of why they were occuring?  Somehow,  it was a reflection on President George W. Bush and his administration that some admittedly terrible things happened in the war zone.

I’m wondering if we are going to hear the same thing about the Marine video?  You know,  that because of Obama’s prosecution of the war,  and the strain that his Afghan surge has put on our soldiers,  he bears partial responsibility for the conduct of these Marines.

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:02:19pm

re: #52 BigPapa

On your second point, I understand. Young, at the end of a highly emotional event loaded with adrenaline, I can understand how it happens and could see myself doing the same thing, at that time and place at the same age. This is why they should be judged by their peers. This is also the reason why the US deploys 'professional soldiers' who volunteer, to control this stuff.

The Taliban is not encumbered by those rules. We are, we have made that choice to be encumbered by those rules. That is why the there is an investigation and probably discharge or punishment.

These professionals, no matter how laden they were with adrenaline and nerves, must be aware of the consequences that their actions will have for their fellow professionals.

57 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:02:39pm

re: #52 BigPapa

By doing shit like this, they put other troops in danger. Why should a villager risk their life to warn the troops about an IED, when they see these troops pissing on corpses and acting like ghouls?

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:03:03pm

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a very...vivid...image.

The only one that fits, "I wouldn't piss on her head if her hair were on fire" version was just not strong enough in this case.

59 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:03:08pm

re: #55 Charles

What a surprise, it's one of those "Big" websites.

60 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:03:42pm

re: #50 ralphieboy

I wouldn't piss up her ass if her guts were on fire...

I think you just described one of Robert Spencer's sexual fantasies ...

61 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:04:15pm

re: #55 Charles

See: Marine Video: Why Doesn't The Media Blame It On Obama?

I'm shocked, SHOCKED! ///

If I do hold Obama responsible for anything at this point, it's not ending this war sooner. It's a boondoggle that's serving only as a drain on resources, morale, and public opinion. It's time to pack it in and get the hell out.

62 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:04:43pm

re: #61 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ron Paul 2012!!!

63 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:04:58pm

Heh. I see they use General Patton as defense, saying he pissed on enemy dead. I don't think he did-- I remember some story of him pissing, but I think it was on a boundary-- but even if he had, Patton was also disciplined for slapping a soldier who had a breakdown under shelling. Patton was a great general, but a bit of a psycho.

64 Stanghazi  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:05:31pm

2 of the marines have been identified apparently. CBS news.

65 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:05:40pm

re: #45 Lidane

Not necessarily - only if it was done with the purpose of carrying on that illicit activities. There's probably enough separation between the donation and the act to not be able to go after the donor.

66 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:05:47pm

re: #22 Ming

I remember years ago, a famous historian of World War II., Steven Ambrose I think, said on TV that during that war, residents of towns were always happy when it was American troops who entered their neighborhoods. They had misgivings about troops from other countries, but they were happy to see Americans.

That's one important thing that made America exceptional. With the torture (e.g. Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo) of the George W. Bush years, we've lost some of that. Hopefully we'll regain it soon.

I have my doubts about historically-oriented South Carolinians necessarily agreeing with that.

67 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:05:48pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

I am having an unfortunately vivid image of a drone lifting its leg on a tree.

I'm remembering the recent Transformers movie where Bumblebee, ahem, "lubricates" the federal goon squad's boss.

68 aagcobb  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:05:49pm

re: #63 Obdicut

Heh. I see they use General Patton as defense, saying he pissed on enemy dead. I don't think he did-- I remember some story of him pissing, but I think it was on a boundary-- but even if he had, Patton was also disciplined for slapping a soldier who had a breakdown under shelling. Patton was a great general, but a bit of a psycho.

I think he pissed in the Rhine, but it might have been another river. That's obviously a lot different.

69 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:06:07pm

re: #62 ralphieboy

Ron Paul 2012!!!

Hey, did I insult you?

//

70 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:06:21pm

re: #56 ralphieboy

These professionals, no matter how laden they were with adrenaline and nerves, must be aware of the consequences that their actions will have for their fellow professionals.

I agree. That's why they are called professionals.

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:00pm

re: #69 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey, did I insult you?

//

Just joshin' - forgot the sarc tag.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:05pm

re: #63 Obdicut

Heh. I see they use General Patton as defense, saying he pissed on enemy dead. I don't think he did-- I remember some story of him pissing, but I think it was on a boundary-- but even if he had, Patton was also disciplined for slapping a soldier who had a breakdown under shelling. Patton was a great general, but a bit of a psycho.

This is probably what they mean.

However, Googling for it reveals a lot of the other, solely about this modern incident, so I think we can safely say that a new legend has been born.

73 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:09pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

I am having an unfortunately vivid image of a drone lifting its leg on a tree.

I can totally see this drone doing exactly that.

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:09pm

re: #55 Charles

Grrr.

That ass-hat was dead to me already.

75 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:24pm

I'm not sure rotating them state side for sensitivity training is going to
work!

76 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:31pm

pissing on people, alive or dead is not my thing....just to make that clear

77 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:33pm

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we
George Bush

78 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:45pm

re: #68 aagcobb

Yeah, that's it. Good memory.

79 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:07:56pm

re: #63 Obdicut

Heh. I see they use General Patton as defense, saying he pissed on enemy dead. I don't think he did-- I remember some story of him pissing, but I think it was on a boundary-- but even if he had, Patton was also disciplined for slapping a soldier who had a breakdown under shelling. Patton was a great general, but a bit of autterly & completely psycho.

FTFY.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:08:04pm

re: #73 Alouette

I can totally see this drone doing exactly that.

[Video]

That thing is disturbing looking.

81 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:08:24pm

re: #63 Obdicut

Heh. I see they use General Patton as defense, saying he pissed on enemy dead. I don't think he did-- I remember some story of him pissing, but I think it was on a boundary-- but even if he had, Patton was also disciplined for slapping a soldier who had a breakdown under shelling. Patton was a great general, but a bit of a psycho.

Patton was a great commander, but bug-fuck insane. His proposal to rearm the Nazis and have them fight the Soviets for us is a prime example.

82 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:09:18pm

re: #57 Obdicut

By doing shit like this, they put other troops in danger. Why should a villager risk their life to warn the troops about an IED, when they see these troops pissing on corpses and acting like ghouls?

This is rationale for 'giving aid and comfort to the enemy.' Those Marines did damage to the cause and may further more harm to other Marines in the future.

83 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:10:44pm

re: #81 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Patton was a great commander, but bug-fuck insane. His proposal to rearm the Nazis and have them fight the Soviets for us is a prime example.

Which is what we did eleven years later when we helped create the West German Bundeswehr, commanded by a number of ex-WWII Wehrmacht officers...

84 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:11:54pm

re: #52 BigPapa

On your second point, I understand. Young, at the end of a highly emotional event loaded with adrenaline, I can understand how it happens and could see myself doing the same thing, at that time and place at the same age. This is why they should be judged by their peers. This is also the reason why the US deploys 'professional soldiers' who volunteer, to control this stuff.

The Taliban is not encumbered by those rules. We are, we have made that choice to be encumbered by those rules. That is why the there is an investigation and probably discharge or punishment.

And given this the situational context is still different from Abu Ghraib. The latter was institutionalized abuse, not a spur-of-the-moment action following combat.

85 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:11:59pm

I'm really glad to see that "Lizard Nation" is pissed about this. I would expect nothing less from this crew.

86 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:12:27pm

It was WRONG to do it!!
It was STUPID to record it and send it!!

87 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:12:30pm

re: #83 ralphieboy

Which is what we did eleven years later when we helped create the West German Bundeswehr, commanded by a number of ex-WWII Wehrmacht officers...

True, but Patton wanted to start WWIII then and there. He didn't want to wait that short de-Nazification period, he wanted to hand them rifles, turn them to the East, and march to Moscow.

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:14:35pm
89 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:14:52pm

re: #87 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

...but can you imagine WWII without the Red Army coming
from the east??

90 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:14:57pm

re: #83 ralphieboy

Which is what we did eleven years later when we helped create the West German Bundeswehr, commanded by a number of ex-WWII Wehrmacht officers...

Year and a half (give or take) after Stalin died. Very different world by then.

91 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:15:22pm

re: #87 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

True, but Patton wanted to start WWIII then and there. He didn't want to wait that short de-Nazification period, he wanted to hand them rifles, turn them to the East, and march to Moscow.

Yes, he was not politician enough to understand the need to let that hot potato cool down a bit before trying to handle it again

92 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:16:22pm

re: #91 ralphieboy

Yes, he was not politician enough to understand the need to let that hot potato cool down a bit before trying to handle it again

why let it cool down?

93 Interesting Times  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:16:58pm

re: #86 reloadingisnotahobby

It was WRONG to do it!!
It was STUPID to record it and send it!!

That's another thing that boggles the mind - if you're going to engage in conduct unbecoming, why in hell's name would you be dumb enough to put it on video??

94 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:18:18pm

re: #89 reloadingisnotahobby

...but can you imagine WWII without the Red Army coming
from the east??

Russia lost (IIRC) 28,000,000 people in WWII.

95 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:18:42pm

re: #93 publicityStunted

That's another thing that boggles the mind - if you're going to engage in conduct unbecoming, why in hell's name would you be dumb enough to put it on video??

Because of the "Youtubification" of America

96 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:20:41pm

OT But here is some more fallout from Newts attack piece and those that endorsed it.

Perry loses key SC backer after attack on Romney

"Investment fund executive and top GOP donor Barry Wynn told The Associated Press he was leaving the Perry fold to endorse Romney, the former Massachusetts governor."

Can we stick a fork in him now?

97 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:20:45pm

re: #95 _RememberTonyC
Never ,ever ever film ANYTHING ...you wouldn't want your mom to see!!
I have no personal experience .....it just makes sense!LOL

98 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:20:48pm

re: #93 publicityStunted

That's another thing that boggles the mind - if you're going to engage in conduct unbecoming, why in hell's name would you be dumb enough to put it on video??

It's a young adult male thing.

My fraternity chapter's scrap books have multiple pictures of guys urinating on different things. Apparently the Nittany Lion statue at Penn State was a particular favorite during road trips there.

99 William of Orange  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:20:51pm

Here's something refreshing!!

Instant Karma from Detroit!!

Remember Romney's remark? "Corporations are people, you know!" Well guess what. Corporations CAN go to jail! Here's a one-percenter who will go behind bars today. Manuel "Matty" Moroun fucked with the wrong judge.

Lawyers race to free bridge bosses Moroun, aide from jail after courtroom shocker.

Lawyers worked furiously today to try to free jailed 84-year-old billionaire Manuel (Matty) Moroun and his top aide, Dan Stamper.


The two were imprisoned this morning by a Wayne County judge until they comply with his order to finish building ramps connecting the Ambassador Bridge to nearby expressways.


Wayne County Sheriff’s deputies led Moroun and Stamper out of the courtroom after Circuit Judge Prentis Edwards denied motions from their lawyers seeking to delay the jailing pending appeal.


In an hour-long hearing of high drama in a packed courtroom, attorneys for the pair offered multiple arguments to keep the men out of jail. They said the men had resigned their positions with the Detroit International Bridge Co. and so were no longer able to control what happened in the dispute. An attorney for Stamper flourished a paper that he said was Stamper’s resignation letter and laid it before the judge.


The lawyers also argued that jailing violated the constitutional rights of Moroun and Stamper. After Edwards rejected all their arguments and deputies led the men away, attorneys for the pair left immediately for the Michigan Court of Appeals to file appeals, hoping to win release for Moroun and Stamper before the end of the day.


Moroun had entered the courtroom smiling and greeting his associates, but appeared shocked and stunned after Edwards ordered him jailed.


A woman sitting in the courtroom broke into applause after Edwards ordered the men jailed. Outside the courtroom later, she identified herself as Deb Sumner, a resident of southwest Detroit. “Justice prevails,” she told reporters. “I’m not shocked at all.”

According to Forbes in 2008 he is the 321st richest person in the USA.

Some judges can't be bought! Priceless!!!

100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:21:56pm

re: #96 Bubblehead II

Can we stick a fork in him now?

He's obviously forking numb. It's been in him for a while.

101 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:22:45pm

PBS documentary looks at Bill Clinton's career

Bubba Exposed

[Link: www.politico.com...]

102 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:23:13pm

re: #91 ralphieboy

Yes, he was not politician enough to understand the need to let that hot potato cool down a bit before trying to handle it again

Patton didn't have a political bone in his body. Part of making him military governor of Bavaria, rather than sending him to the Pacific, is that he'd spent all his time in Europe repeatedly stepping on toes, including the infamous slapping incident. God only knows what he'd have gotten up to had he not been involved in that car crash.

103 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:23:33pm

re: #28 ralphieboy

The Commander in Chief always bears ultimate responsibility for the actions of those who serve. Part of the job description.

This is true, and he better come out loud and hard as to the fact that this type of action will not be tolerated.

104 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:25:03pm

re: #99 William of Orange

Draft this awesome judge for Congress!!

Or, better yet, try and have him fill the next vacancy on the Supreme Court.

105 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:27:00pm

re: #100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

True. At this point I would say he was well past well done.

106 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:27:51pm

re: #96 Bubblehead II

He still has money to spend, he is gonna spend it and enjoy the ride while building up his name recognition for 2016

107 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:28:01pm

re: #103 RayFerd

This is true, and he better come out loud and hard as to the fact that this type of action will not be tolerated.

I think he will, but I assume that he's holding until more information can be gained.

108 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:28:21pm

re: #99 William of Orange

Here's something refreshing!!

Instant Karma from Detroit!!

Remember Romney's remark? "Corporations are people, you know!" Well guess what. Corporations CAN go to jail! Here's a one-percenter who will go behind bars today. Manuel "Matty" Moroun fucked with the wrong judge.

Lawyers race to free bridge bosses Moroun, aide from jail after courtroom shocker.


According to Forbes in 2008 he is the 321st richest person in the USA.

Some judges can't be bought! Priceless!!!

The Bridge Troll.Can you imagine in this day and age, an individual owning a major international border crossing? He also operated the Duty Free Store with markups that it didn't even make sense to buy something at a "Duty Free" store when you could buy the same thing online or even at Macy's for the same money.

109 William of Orange  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:31:31pm

re: #108 Alouette

The Bridge Troll.Can you imagine in this day and age, an individual owning a major international border crossing? He also operated the Duty Free Store with markups that it didn't even make sense to buy something at a "Duty Free" store when you could buy the same thing online or even at Macy's for the same money.

From Wikipedia.

Critics suggest that Moroun's opposition is fuelled by the prospect of lost profits from duty-free gasoline sales, which are exempt from about 60 cents per gallon in taxes even though the pump price to consumers is only a few cents lower.

The bastard is living off this. Keeping the bulk of the money for himself. The opposition is about a second span over the Detroit river, which will cost him a lot of bucks in lost revenue.

I always think of the imortal lyrics by Eric Idle.
"You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!"

Keep singing Matty! #"Always look on the bright side of life, (whistle!)


Hahaha!!!

110 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:32:57pm

re: #108 Alouette

That little old man??? A crook??
He looks like my uncle George....
...he died in Levenworth 1959.../

111 abolitionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:36:11pm

re: #103 RayFerd

This is true, and he better come out loud and hard as to the fact that this type of action will not be tolerated.

While I would applaude such a statement by our Commander-in-Chief, I can understand a reluctance to become directly involved in a specific case such as this, and I trust that justice will be done.

112 simoom  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:36:57pm

Some of the dumbest reporting ever from WaPo:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

President Obama’s got sons?
By Al Kamen

Breaking news!

President Obama, speaking last night in Chicago at a fundraiser at a private home, unloaded this bombshell:

Obama, according to the White House transcript, talked about “The first bill I signed — a bill that said that we’re going to have equal pay for equal work because I want my daughters treated the same way as my sons.”

Sons? What sons? How many? Where? Names? Do the girls know? (More importantly, does Michelle?)

Will the boys be joining him on the campaign trail?

"a bill that said"...

113 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:38:36pm

re: #112 simoom

You cannot be bullet-pointy enough for those pinheads

114 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:41:36pm

re: #111 abolitionist

While I would applaude such a statement by our Commander-in-Chief, I can understand a reluctance to become directly involved in a specific case such as this, and I trust that justice will be done.

As was written up above, he should wait for the inquiry to be concluded. If it is revealed that this was truly what it appears to be then I want to hear something other than "it was just a prank, like college hazing" that was such a hit after the torture pics came out from Iraq.

This is a specific case but the wording of the statement could be just a condemnation of our soldiers that don't act within the conduct dictated by our armed forces.

115 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:43:16pm

re: #114 RayFerd

As was written up above, he should wait for the inquiry to be concluded. If it is revealed that this was truly what it appears to be then I want to hear something other than "it was just a prank, like college hazing" that was such a hit after the torture pics came out from Iraq.

This is a specific case but the wording of the statement could be just a condemnation of our soldiers that don't act within the conduct dictated by our armed forces.

good grief...not much meat on this bone

116 Jimmi the Grey  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:44:05pm

re: #22 Ming

I remember years ago, a famous historian of World War II., Steven Ambrose I think, said on TV that during that war, residents of towns were always happy when it was American troops who entered their neighborhoods. They had misgivings about troops from other countries, but they were happy to see Americans.

That's one important thing that made America exceptional. With the torture (e.g. Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo) of the George W. Bush years, we've lost some of that. Hopefully we'll regain it soon.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump:

Better is as better does.

117 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:46:28pm

just in case anybody wonders if Obama promotes pissing on dead guys, he will need a prime time presser to clarify his stance

118 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:49:49pm

Does he support prosecuting Wikileaks?

119 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:49:51pm

re: #115 albusteve

good grief...not much meat on this bone

Well, get some change and call someone who gives a fuck.

120 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:49:57pm

re: #117 albusteve

just in case anybody wonders if Obama promotes pissing on dead guys, he will need a prime time presser to clarify his stance

And why do you think he will need to do that?

121 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:50:49pm

re: #120 oaktree

And why do you think he will need to do that?

That was definitely not said in seriousness.

122 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:51:50pm

re: #121 Obdicut

That was definitely not said in seriousness.

it was said by albusteve, same difference...

123 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:55:17pm

re: #120 oaktree

And why do you think he will need to do that?

Certainly seems that if muslins don't speak out against terrorism then that means they support it, why shouldn't the repubes apply the same logic here?

I think it was just a jab at me for my comment. Always with the poking.

124 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:56:18pm

re: #120 oaktree

And why do you think he will need to do that?

I'm not sure he needs to....the subject speaks for itself and anyone that firmly believes Obama would condone this behavior is just another hater and won't be convinced

125 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 12:58:41pm

re: #123 RayFerd

Certainly seems that if muslins don't speak out against terrorism then that means they support it, why shouldn't the repubes apply the same logic here?

I think it was just a jab at me for my comment. Always with the poking.

no, I think Panetta should handle it...it need not go any higher...but if the POTUS needs to tell his troops not to piss on corpses on TV, so be it

126 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:03:08pm

watching the video from the previous thread, it seems that mitt romney is the real expert on pissing on people

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:06:45pm

re: #125 albusteve

no, I think Panetta should handle it...it need not go any higher...but if the POTUS needs to tell his troops not to piss on corpses on TV, so be it

Hillary's made a statement already. Now I'm in a bind--I hope this doesn't turn out to be accurate, because it's bad, but also, I don't want to end up in another situation where the administration is accused of jumping to believe the worst of the troops.

Decisions, decisions...and, of course, I decide how reality works out.

//

128 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:06:48pm

piss threads go nowhere

129 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:07:10pm

Off topic foodie question.

Reuban Pizza - Good idea, or heresy?

Reuben pizza was featured on the Travel Channel's show Man v. Food. The restaurant Black Market Pizza in Ames, Iowa, specializes in sandwich-themed pizzas. The Reuben consists of a sweet-potato dough—topped with Thousand-Island dressing, Swiss cheese, corned beef, sauerkraut, mozzarella cheese, and caraway seeds—that is baked, then topped with pickles before serving.

130 iossarian  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:07:43pm

re: #128 albusteve

piss threads go nowhere

Nowhere but down, to be technically exact.

131 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:07:45pm

re: #128 albusteve

piss threads go nowhere

Gravity would insist they go down.

132 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:07:58pm

re: #129 oaktree

Off topic foodie question.

Reuban Pizza - Good idea, or heresy?

Reuben pizza was featured on the Travel Channel's show Man v. Food. The restaurant Black Market Pizza in Ames, Iowa, specializes in sandwich-themed pizzas. The Reuben consists of a sweet-potato dough—topped with Thousand-Island dressing, Swiss cheese, corned beef, sauerkraut, mozzarella cheese, and caraway seeds—that is baked, then topped with pickles before serving.

heresy

133 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:08:49pm

re: #131 EmmmieG

Gravity would insist they go down.

SCIENCE!

134 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:09:05pm

re: #126 engineer dog

watching the video from the previous thread, it seems that mitt romney is the real expert on pissing on people

When you're wealthy you have a greater capacity to piss on people. You also have a greater capacity to do good with it.

And herein lies my interpretation of the right's view on capitalism: it makes it easier to amass wealth but there is no concept of what to do with it, or for what purpose, for the greater good. It stops at get more.

135 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:11:35pm

re: #134 BigPapa

When you're wealthy you have a greater capacity to piss on people. You also have a greater capacity to do good with it.

And herein lies my interpretation of the right's view on capitalism: it makes it easier to amass wealth but there is no concept of what to do with it, or for what purpose, for the greater good. It stops at get more.

the law of the jungle is not the same thing as capitalism

and i'm getting sick and tired of rush limbaugh and his friends telling me that it is

136 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:13:20pm

re: #135 engineer dog

the law of the jungle is not the same thing as capitalism

and i'm getting sick and tired of rush limbaugh and his friends telling me that it is

get a job, start a family, put your head down and forge ahead...I promise that Rush's influence on you will evaporate

137 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:15:08pm

re: #135 engineer dog

the law of the jungle is not the same thing as capitalism

and i'm getting sick and tired of rush limbaugh and his friends telling me that it is

Capitalism is merely a protocol. It is not a goal. To flip the 'law of the jungle' concept around, humans figured out long ago that we're better off working together. We are social animals. (So are lions)

I don't think capitalism is supposed to make it easier for people to get rich or amass wealth. But it sure seems like that's the idea.

138 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:15:24pm

re: #136 albusteve

get a job, start a family, put your head down and forge ahead...I promise that Rush's influence on you will evaporate

um, steve - you don't think i have a job?

also, i invested time and money and started a company

139 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:15:54pm

I'm working on a painting of Bobby Keys...I have a cool rough outline, but this one is gonna be a bitch

140 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:16:37pm

re: #137 BigPapa

Capitalism is merely a protocol. It is not a goal. To flip the 'law of the jungle' concept around, humans figured out long ago that we're better off working together. We are social animals. (So are lions)

I don't think capitalism is supposed to make it easier for people to get rich or amass wealth. But it sure seems like that's the idea.

i didn't mean to sound like i was disagreeing with anything you said - i don't

141 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:16:55pm

re: #138 engineer dog

um, steve - you don't think i have a job?

also, i invested time and money and started a company

So did I. I'm a job creator (Or, will be this year). Good for you I hope you succeed and build a good business.

142 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:17:14pm

re: #83 ralphieboy

Which is what we did eleven years later when we helped create the West German Bundeswehr, commanded by a number of ex-WWII Wehrmacht officers...

Which is not something I'm uncomfortable with.

Compared to the officers of the Wehrmacht, ours were mostly second stringers. We had nobody to match people like Guderian or von Manstein. Even Patton, in my opinion, wasn't nearly as good.

If they weren't Nazis, I have no problem with them in positions of responsibility in the Bundswehr.

143 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:18:01pm

re: #138 engineer dog

um, steve - you don't think i have a job?

also, i invested time and money and started a company

good for you...I had a company in the 90's and it about killed me...go forth and prosper bro

144 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:21:51pm

life is a constant evolution...one must be ready and willing to move forward, sideways or whatever it takes to protect your interests...there is money to be made out there...be bold

145 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:22:01pm

re: #140 engineer dog

I think we're just making tandem points in agreement. I don't have the time to understand or write longer posts since I'm taking some web training (50% technical, 50% marketing BS).

But I don't think capitalism is the problem. It's capitalism's fans that are.

146 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:23:19pm

Heh. Too bad this guy doesn't have standing.

virginia-man-files-complaint-against-spoiled-brats-gop-seeking-ballot-access

A Virginia man is asking a federal judge to throw out a ballot challenge by three big-name Republican presidential primary candidates, describing Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and Jon Huntsman as "spoiled brats" who are wasting the court's time and money.

147 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:25:37pm

re: #55 Charles

See: Marine Video: Why Doesn't The Media Blame It On Obama?

Of course thhis desecration, if true is awful at anytime. That having been said-This video could easily be from before Obama took office. Now would that not just be hilarious to watch the flip flopping on the RW wingnut blogs?

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:28:24pm

re: #137 BigPapa

Capitalism is merely a protocol. It is not a goal. To flip the 'law of the jungle' concept around, humans figured out long ago that we're better off working together. We are social animals. (So are lions)

I don't think capitalism is supposed to make it easier for people to get rich or amass wealth. But it sure seems like that's the idea.

It's like the difference between natural selection and social Darwinism.

149 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:38:45pm

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Z......I agree with what you say here. However, had there been cell phones during my war (Nam) or any other war, one would have seen the same thing. Had they all had cell phones in the 1940's we wouldn't be calling them the Greatest Generation. It is often very hard to describe the visceralness of warfare and what it does to a person. I mean these fuckers are SHOOTING at you.....they have killed your friends......the hatred I experienced toward the enemy I have experienced in any other aspects of my life. So what these guys did to the dead enemy Taliban I am not condoning but I do understand.

150 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:39:12pm

I got 49 out of 50 and have earned the right to take another course.

151 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:39:30pm

re: #149 Big Steve

But a lot more guys didn't do things like this.

152 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:40:21pm

Isn't this proof that the intent of the law is not to be sure a patient is informed, but rather to punish her?

The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Texas should be allowed to enforce a new law requiring doctors to conduct a sonogram before performing an abortion, but that doesn't mean the law will be enforced soon.

At issue is how much the state can control what a doctor tells a patient. The law's supporters, most of whom oppose abortion rights, say the law is necessary to make sure a woman fully understands what an abortion entails.

The only way to do this, supporters argue, is to require the doctor to conduct a sonogram, make the image viewable to the woman, play the fetal heartbeat over a speaker and verbally describe whether the fetus has organs or limbs. Women cannot ask the doctor to skip any of these steps unless they legally certify that they are victims of incest or rape, or if the doctor finds that the fetus is fatally deformed.

[...]

Her's the "news" part of the article (the ruling itself was Paged a few days ago, IIRC):

On Tuesday, the circuit's Chief Judge Edith H. Jones issued a judicial opinion saying the doctors had not proved that Texas was violating their First Amendment rights to free speech, and therefore Sparks' order to block enforcement was premature. But Jones did not issue a mandate ending that injunction and won't for at least 14 days, giving the doctors who are represented by the Center for Reproductive Rights time to appeal her ruling.

153 albusteve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:40:48pm

re: #151 Obdicut

But a lot more guys didn't do things like this.

they are not the issue are they?

154 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:41:23pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist

It's like the difference between natural selection and social Darwinism.

An irony that constantly produces chuckles.

155 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:42:28pm

re: #151 Obdicut

But a lot more guys didn't do things like this.

I cannot place a percentage on it but acts of cruelty and debasement are not rare in warfare.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:46:49pm

re: #149 Big Steve

Z...I agree with what you say here. However, had there been cell phones during my war (Nam) or any other war, one would have seen the same thing. Had they all had cell phones in the 1940's we wouldn't be calling them the Greatest Generation. It is often very hard to describe the visceralness of warfare and what it does to a person. I mean these fuckers are SHOOTING at you...they have killed your friends...the hatred I experienced toward the enemy I have experienced in any other aspects of my life. So what these guys did to the dead enemy Taliban I am not condoning but I do understand.

I completely get that. In that post, I am very specifically not talking about soldiers in the field, but bloggers here at home--people like Breitbart, and the folks we used to refer to here as the 101st Chairborne.

Shit like this is going to happen. We're talking about people under almost unimagineable stress. And, since we are who we are, we're going to have to investigate, and deal with those who broke the rules. But I have compassion for the guys who did it. Anger, yes, condemnation of what they did, but also an (admittedly very third-hand) understanding of what they're experiencing, and how that can boil over into actions much worse than this.

But for people like Wilcox, and Pam Geller, I have contempt. They're not under the pressure of war, and they don't much care if anyone else is. They approve this sort of thing because it makes them feel strong and tough, and they reject any understanding of why it was wrong, and problematic for our military.

In that post, I'm talkin' about wingnuts. Not the Marines. Judging them is going to have to be up to God and the UCMJ.

157 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:52:56pm

This is just a bummer of a subject.

158 Four More Tears  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:53:56pm

re: #157 Obdicut

This is just a bummer of a subject.

I guess we could switch gears and talk about a more upbeat topic, like all of those former criminals now on the loose down south...

159 darthstar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:57:44pm

The question has been asked...now it must be answered:

"Do you believe Mitt Romney has a big penis?"
Not answering is a 'no.' Dismissing the question is a 'hell no.' Calling into question the character of the questioner is equal to saying, "No fucking way."

160 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 1:58:17pm

re: #129 oaktree

Off topic foodie question.

Reuban Pizza - Good idea, or heresy?

Reuben pizza was featured on the Travel Channel's show Man v. Food. The restaurant Black Market Pizza in Ames, Iowa, specializes in sandwich-themed pizzas. The Reuben consists of a sweet-potato dough—topped with Thousand-Island dressing, Swiss cheese, corned beef, sauerkraut, mozzarella cheese, and caraway seeds—that is baked, then topped with pickles before serving.

Not even heresy. One has to be in a religious tradition to be a heretic. This is not pizza, therefor it is a heathen and not a heretic.

161 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:00:54pm

re: #160 wlewisiii

Not even heresy. One has to be in a religious tradition to be a heretic. This is not pizza, therefor it is a heathen and not a heretic.

Ah. The "No True Pizza" Defense.

;)

162 Kragar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:03:17pm

re: #160 wlewisiii

Not even heresy. One has to be in a religious tradition to be a heretic. This is not pizza, therefor it is a heathen and not a heretic.

One is born with the knowledge of the truth. Failing to accept it when it stares you in the face is heresy!
/

163 EdDantes  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:03:43pm

re: #159 darthstar

I am afraid to click on that link for a variety of reasons.

164 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:06:34pm

Boycott the Superbowl?
///

This will make Clarkson only the third Idol winner (after Jordin Sparks and Carrie Underwood) to belt the Francis Scott Key tune on Super Sunday, despite the fact that her widely praised vocal talents have always made her a natural candidate for the job.

165 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:10:21pm

And another example of how irrelevant Charles is:

ThinkProgress: While U.S., Afghans, NATO Condemn Marines Urinating On Dead Taliban, Right Wing Says ‘I Could Care Less’

Update: Charles Johnson finds a Breitbart blogger joining the right-wing applause. “Pile them up, let them rot, piss on them,” writes Robert K. Wilcox.

See, he's totally irrelevant!

///

166 Kragar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:11:16pm
167 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:21:26pm

Alright, the thread's dead, I'm calling it. Time of death - 2:20pm PST.

168 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:21:50pm

re: #165 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And another example of how irrelevant Charles is:

ThinkProgress: While U.S., Afghans, NATO Condemn Marines Urinating On Dead Taliban, Right Wing Says ‘I Could Care Less’

See, he's totally irrelevant!

///

Apparently the Taliban reaction was a yawn.

169 kirkspencer  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:24:53pm

re: #129 oaktree

Off topic foodie question.

Reuban Pizza - Good idea, or heresy?

Reuben pizza was featured on the Travel Channel's show Man v. Food. The restaurant Black Market Pizza in Ames, Iowa, specializes in sandwich-themed pizzas. The Reuben consists of a sweet-potato dough—topped with Thousand-Island dressing, Swiss cheese, corned beef, sauerkraut, mozzarella cheese, and caraway seeds—that is baked, then topped with pickles before serving.

It depends on what you mean by pizza - how fanatically you insist it have (and not have) certain ingredients. If you are the type of person who believes Guinness isn't beer because it violates Beer Purity laws of Germany, then you probably declare this heresy if not heathen. If you're the sort who considers a California Roll to be sushi it's probably fine.

For me, I've come to think any flatbread with toppings added then run through a superhot oven can be called pizza if the creator wants to do so. But I'm a rather tolerant sort of guy -- I even avoided either fleeing in terror or going ballistic when served an Elvis Pizza. (Bananas, bacon, peanut butter, and one was too many.)

170 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:26:46pm

re: #168 Rightwingconspirator

Apparently the Taliban reaction was a yawn.

Yeah, I agree with the article, sounds like the Taliban's just as eager for this whole deal to be over as we are.

171 Kronocide  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:35:22pm

re: #168 Rightwingconspirator

Apparently the Taliban reaction was a yawn.

I'd not call it a yawn yet. They are not quite as connected as the West and the 101st Chairborne. I'd give it a couple more weeks or so before I'd call it a yawn.

172 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:37:19pm

Presumably this video was taken by a fellow marine, and published by the same.

Sadly we don't seem to be training these guys very well in common sense if they couldn't realize they were pissing into the wind.

173 recusancy  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:37:51pm

Jon Stewart's great interview with Jim Demint from last night:

174 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:38:39pm

re: #169 kirkspencer

-- I even avoided either fleeing in terror or going ballistic when served an Elvis Pizza. (Bananas, bacon, peanut butter, and one was too many.)

Braver man than I ... //

175 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:49:19pm

re: #135 engineer dog

the law of the jungle is not the same thing as capitalism

and i'm getting sick and tired of rush limbaugh and his friends telling me that it is

The law of the jungle isn't the law of the jungle. Most ESSs (Evolutionary Stable Strategies) have both violent and non-violent components. The LotJ Rush uses is an imaginary version.

176 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:50:15pm

re: #139 albusteve

I'm working on a painting of Bobby Keys...I have a cool rough outline, but this one is gonna be a bitch

How broad of a brush are you using?

177 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:52:30pm

Only fear ridden fools and hollywood writers think that you have to be bad to beat bad. Hollywood writers have an slight excuse because to create heros larger than life in today's somewhat easy world you have to create bizarre scenarios and/or justification for vigilante, extrajudicial, and terroristic responses from supposed heros or there aren't any car chases, explosions, or blood spurts to keep the audience enthralled.

178 Kragar  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:53:52pm

re: #176 b_sharp

How broad of a brush are you using?

Like a Ross?

179 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:55:08pm

Minimum age to serve should be 24

180 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:57:46pm

(In)sanity break

181 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 3:17:00pm

re: #179 SpaceJesus

Minimum age to serve should be 24

And how old to be served?

And how old to drive a car? (I'm thinking 16 is too young, although when I was 15 I couldn't wait).

182 wee fury  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 3:27:26pm

Dead as a doornail thread.

183 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 3:28:00pm

re: #182 wee fury

Dead as a doornail thread.

Good things there's a new one, eh?

184 EdDantes  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 3:28:23pm

re: #182 wee fury

/ can we pee on it?

185 wee fury  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 3:32:26pm

I heartily believe that all bodily functions are a private affair.

186 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 12, 2012 4:08:44pm

re: #185 wee fury

I heartily believe that all bodily functions are a private affair.

Especially in elevators.

187 chaosium  Fri, Jan 13, 2012 10:14:24am

re: #17 im_gumby_damnit

To them, this isn't a War, this is a skirmish in the War on Islam.


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