Navy Veteran’s Widow Shocked That Her Husband’s Name Was Used by James O’Keefe to Commit Fraud

Collateral damage in James O’Keefe’s right wing crusade
Wingnuts • Views: 35,703

In the amoral universe of James O’Keefe and his political hack friends like Andrew Breitbart, it never matters how many innocent people are smeared or hurt on the way to one of their “scoops.”

But this story is heartbreaking, as the grieving widow of a recently deceased US Navy veteran was appalled to learn that her husband’s name had been used in O’Keefe’s cynical right wing scheme to fraudulently obtain ballots in New Hampshire: N.H. widow shocked by ploy at polls.

A grieving New Hampshire widow said she was stunned to learn her beloved husband’s identity was used for a political gotcha — just 10 days after his death.

“That’s awful,” Rachel Groux said. “Why should they use his name? They shouldn’t use anybody’s name — alive or deceased.”

Activist filmmaker James O’Keefe secretly recorded video showing his operative using Roger Groux’s name and address to obtain a Republican ballot at Manchester polls Tuesday. The U.S. Navy veteran died Dec. 31 at an assisted living home. His family held funeral services Monday, his widow said.

“Oh my God, I know what he would say, ‘Call the cops, call the police,’ ” Rachel Groux said.

Of course, the important objective is to give the Republican Party ammunition to help them pass voter ID laws, so why should James O’Keefe or Andrew Breitbart care about the feelings of a veteran’s grieving widow? She’s just collateral damage to them.

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136 comments
1 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:12:22pm

James O’Keefe, professional troop-hater.

2 Henchman 25  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:13:01pm

These people are monsters.

3 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:13:57pm

If you think recording yourself committing a crime is a valid way to illustrate that there is crime afoot, you might be a Breitbart.

4 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:14:25pm

They truly are awful. The soul of sewer rat is larger than theirs.

5 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:15:25pm

Patriots!!

6 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:20:02pm

re: #1 Slumbering Behemoth

James O’Keefe, professional troop-hater dick.

7 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:20:09pm

re: #3 Slumbering Behemoth

If you think recording yourself committing a crime is a valid way to illustrate that there is crime afoot, you might be a Breitbart.

no arrests...so far, so good
even money says they skate

8 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:21:32pm

Gah, arrest him already

I despair of any of this shit resulting in any actual consequences for this guy

9 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:21:41pm

re: #7 albusteve

no arrests...so far, so good
even money says they skate

agreed

10 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:23:16pm

Unfortunately this type of thing happens in Philly. I still check the local street list for my late mom's name. If it ever appears, and I hope it never does, I will personally show the city commissioners my mom death certificate.

11 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:24:30pm

dang the pencil didn't work. mom should be mom's

12 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:25:58pm

re: #7 albusteve

no arrests...so far, so good
even money says they skate

He did get arrested. That's why he's on probation.

13 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:26:33pm

O'Keefe is relying on the idea that his collaborators didn't specifically identify themselves as the false name they were "asking" about as providing some kind of legal cover. However at no point do they correct the poll workers when the poll workers turn around and address them by the name they've given. They confirm the addresses and registration and answer questions directly addressed to them under the false name. The clear intent is to acquire a ballot, and once they start answering to the names without correction their actions undeniably become criminal. The fact that they didn't cast a vote is immaterial, they lied by omission, when given a clear opportunity to correct the poll workers they declined to do so, all to prove they could get their hands on a ballot by false pretenses.

14 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:27:05pm

re: #12 Obdicut

He did get arrested. That's why he's on probation.

really?

15 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:29:52pm

re: #12 Obdicut

He did get arrested. That's why he's on probation.

Wasn't that the Mary Landreiu thing?

16 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:30:17pm

yeah, no warrant yet in this one

17 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:30:28pm

re: #15 austin_blue

Wasn't that the Mary Landreiu thing?

LOL....time warp

18 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:31:33pm

People. Justice takes time, this isn't CSI. Arrests will take a few weeks at least. Also, O'keefe is on parole and this could land him back in jail.

19 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:31:41pm

re: #15 austin_blue

Wasn't that the Mary Landreiu thing?

Yes, and a standard condition of any probation is to steer clear of any criminal conspiracies.

20 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:32:17pm

re: #18 Iwouldprefernotto

People. Justice takes time, this isn't CSI. Arrests will take a few weeks at least. Also, O'keefe is on parole and this could land him back in jail.

he's on probation, he never served time

21 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:33:10pm

re: #18 Iwouldprefernotto

People. Justice takes time, this isn't CSI. Arrests will take a few weeks at least. Also, O'keefe is on parole and this could land him back in jail.

From your fingers to God's monitor!

22 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:33:16pm

re: #15 austin_blue

Wasn't that the Mary Landreiu thing?

Yes. What I mean is, they've been arrested before. They've got to prosecute them for this, otherwise the precedent set is abso-lutely terrible.

If they don't prosecute these guys, so many other people are going to be doing this-- 'just to show the system doesn't work'.

23 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:34:38pm
Activist filmmaker James O’Keefe

I don't think he deserves either of those descriptors.

24 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:36:13pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

I don't think he deserves either of those descriptors.

"Scam artist" or "yellow journalist" work better.

25 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:36:35pm

re: #21 austin_blue

From your fingers to God's monitor!

I have a direct connection, but it costs extra...

26 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:36:45pm

re: #15 austin_blue

Wasn't that the Mary Landreiu thing?

I believe so.

27 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:37:40pm

re: #25 Iwouldprefernotto
It always costs more./

28 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:38:13pm

re: #26 reine.de.tout

I believe so.

thanks for the accordion link...that was fun...
makes me want some crawfish...mmm

29 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:39:22pm

re: #18 Iwouldprefernotto

People. Justice takes time, this isn't CSI. Arrests will take a few weeks at least. Also, O'keefe is on parole and this could land him back in jail.

Probation, not parole, but you're right in that it will take time. The wheels of justice may grind slowly, but they grind finely.

30 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:39:44pm

re: #24 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Scam artist" or "yellow journalist" work better.

The two tags next to each other at the top, "stunt" and "crime", go together to make "stunt criminal". That fits. "Stunted" also works.

31 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:39:50pm

re: #26 reine.de.tout

I believe so.

Hey, Reine!

Finger's crossed here-

oh, shit. Another fumble.

32 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:39:53pm

Alex Smith is getting pushed around a little...that's bad

33 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:41:58pm

It doesn't take a genius to realize that if you pull the names of recently deceased people out of obituary listings and use them in a stunt like this, you're likely to step on the feelings of their relatives at a very bad time in their lives.

34 Lidane  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:42:13pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

I don't think he deserves either of those descriptors.

I call him Breitbart's fake pimp, since that's all he is.

35 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:43:03pm

got me more of some high powered medicinal weed from CA...so potent I can hardly use it...if I start typing backwards that might be why

36 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:43:10pm

re: #33 Charles

I'm betting there will be no apologies of any merit.

37 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:44:09pm

re: #33 Charles

It doesn't take a genius to realize that if you pull the names of recently deceased people out of obituary listings and use them in a stunt like this, you're very likely to trod on the feelings of people at a very bad time in their lives.

It takes someone morally stunted to not give a shit about a person's feelings at such a time.

38 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:45:14pm

re: #37 wrenchwench

It takes someone morally stunted to not give a shit about a person's feelings at such a time.

"we're on a mission from God"

39 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:45:34pm

re: #36 Obdicut

I'm betting there will be no apologies of any merit.

From scumbags like O'Keefe or Breitbart? Nah, no apologies. If anything, they'll likely call on the victims to get angry with the government, saying if there were voter ID laws, their loved ones names wouldn't have been easy to use in the "sting."

40 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:45:44pm

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

In other words, O'Keefe seems to think it's not a crime to intentionally deceive poll workers as to one's identity if the ruse used is worded cleverly enough. He doesn't seem to think that intent matters, no matter how duplicitous and clearly stated.

It's a very interesting genre of legal defense for sure, but I don't think it will stand up to much scrutiny. How he talked any of these people into following him down this line of reasoning is a mystery to me. His collaborators must be incredibly naive and credulous believers, because they've bet their public records on some incredibly dubious advice.

41 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:46:15pm

re: #37 wrenchwench

It takes someone morally stunted to not give a shit about a person's feelings at such a time.

He was probably so happy that the charges about his attempted kidnapping and date rape of one of his colleagues got dropped, he never considered it.

42 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:46:50pm

re: #39 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

From scumbags like O'Keefe or Breitbart? Nah, no apologies. If anything, they'll likely call on the victims to get angry with the government, saying if there were voter ID laws, their loved ones names wouldn't have been easy to use in the "sting."

"Everyone needs to make sacrifices."

43 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:47:16pm

watch NO tie it right here

44 palomino  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:48:08pm

re: #20 albusteve

he's on probation, he never served time

but a violation of that probation could still get him jail time, or at least aggravate his legal situation one way or another

45 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:48:32pm

re: #40 goddamnedfrank

In other words, O'Keefe seems to think it's not a crime to intentionally deceive poll workers as to one's identity if the ruse used is worded cleverly enough. He doesn't seem to think that intent matters, no matter how duplicitous and clearly stated.

It's a very interesting genre of legal defense for sure, but I don't think it will stand up to much scrutiny. How he talked any of these people into following him down this line of reasoning is a mystery to me. His collaborators must be incredibly naive and credulous believers, because they've bet their public records on some incredibly dubious advice.

If his claim of receiving $50,000 to fund his "stings" is true, then it would explain how he found willing accomplices to go through with this. I just hope they saved it all up for their lawyer fees.

46 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:49:28pm

re: #44 palomino

but a violation of that probation could still get him jail time, or at least aggravate his legal situation one way or another

don't I know....time should be mandatory at that point

47 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:50:01pm

re: #40 goddamnedfrank

In other words, O'Keefe seems to think it's not a crime to intentionally deceive poll workers as to one's identity if the ruse used is worded cleverly enough. He doesn't seem to think that intent matters, no matter how duplicitous and clearly stated.

It's a very interesting genre of legal defense for sure, but I don't think it will stand up to much scrutiny. How he talked any of these people into following him down this line of reasoning is a mystery to me. His collaborators must be incredibly naive and credulous believers, because they've bet their public records on some incredibly dubious advice.

If an attorney was consulted, he or she would be open to malpractice claims. If not, well, that's just stupid, which is already in evidence.

48 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:53:02pm

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If his claim of receiving $50,000 to fund his "stings" is true, then it would explain how he found willing accomplices to go through with this. I just hope they saved it all up for their lawyer fees.

if the 50k was a gift, he'll need to pay a tax on it...
get the IRS on his ass and he's toast

49 palomino  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:53:47pm

re: #35 albusteve

got me more of some high powered medicinal weed from CA...so potent I can hardly use it...if I start typing backwards that might be why

upding for medical marijuana...you've probably already figured out what to do, but if it's too potent at first, do some googling...you'll find plenty of suggestions from people in similar situations, most of them constructive.

Whatever you do, do NOT build a gravity bong out of a large milk container...leave that to college kids.

50 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:55:25pm

re: #49 palomino

upding for medical marijuana...you've probably already figured out what to do, but if it's too potent at first, do some googling...you'll find plenty of suggestions from people in similar situations, most of them constructive.

Whatever you do, do NOT build a gravity bong out of a large milk container...leave that to college kids.

I'm an old hand...open the bag and the odor intoxicated the whole bunkhouse...sweet

51 palomino  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:56:11pm

re: #50 albusteve

I'm an old hand...open the bag and the odor intoxicated the whole bunkhouse...sweet

that's always the first sign you got really good stuff, party on.

52 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:58:14pm

Also, it appears that O'Keefe's crew violated New Hampshire's wiretapping laws in recording election officials without their consent or knowledge.

53 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 3:59:42pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

Also, it appears that O'Keefe's crew violated New Hampshire's wiretapping laws in recording election officials without their consent or knowledge.

Yep. So, even if O'Keefe gets off on his little "We didn't actually say we were them" defense, the video is enough proof that the wiretapping law has been broken.

54 Archangelus  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:03:52pm

Three words: Criminal. Prosecution. Today.

55 Stanghazi  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:05:33pm

re: #35 albusteve

got me more of some high powered medicinal weed from CA...so potent I can hardly use it...if I start typing backwards that might be why

CA's good for something

56 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:06:38pm

re: #55 Stanley Sea

CA's good for something

What have the Californians ever done for us?
/

57 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:07:14pm

re: #54 Archangelus

Three words: Criminal. Prosecution. Today.

Patience, they'll get theirs. They've successfully pissed off enough folks in the NH government that, one way or another, they'll be before a jury before year's end.

58 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:08:29pm

NO has their hands full...SF is scrappy and they are playing hard...upset?

59 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:10:08pm

The two pertinent sections of New Hampshire election law (.pdf):

659:13 Obtaining a Ballot. A person desiring to vote shall, before being admitted to the enclosed space within the guardrail, announce his or her name to one of the ballot clerks who shall thereupon repeat the name; and, if the name is found on the checklist by the ballot clerk, the ballot clerk shall put a checkmark beside it and again repeat the name. The ballot clerk shall state the address listed on the checklist for the voter, and ask if the address is correct; if the address on the checklist is not correct, the ballot clerk shall correct the address in red on the paper checklist and the supervisors of the checklist shall cause the centralized voter registration database to reflect the correction. The voter, if still qualified to vote in the town or ward and unless challenged as provided for in RSA 659:27-33, shall then be allowed to enter the space enclosed by the guardrail. After the voter enters the enclosed space, the ballot clerk shall give the voter one of each ballot to be voted on in that election which shall be folded as it was upon receipt from the secretary of state.

659:13-a Observing Voter Check-In. No person not authorized by law may stand or sit within 6 feet of the ballot clerk for purposes of observing the check-in of voters without the express permission of the moderator.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:12:41pm

re: #2 SteelPH

These people are monsters.

Well, they're certainly assholes. I'm not sure they rise to 'monster' status.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:14:02pm

re: #15 austin_blue

Wasn't that the Mary Landreiu thing?

I believe so. That was another one of their 'but if we're doing it for the Secret Society of Right-Wing Righteousness, they can't really arrest us, right?'

Wrong.

62 albusteve  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:14:37pm

re: #59 goddamnedfrank

wouldn't the charges be federal?

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:14:56pm

re: #33 Charles

It doesn't take a genius to realize that if you pull the names of recently deceased people out of obituary listings and use them in a stunt like this, you're likely to step on the feelings of their relatives at a very bad time in their lives.

It does, however, take someone who thinks of something beyond their own ego and goals as being remotely important.

64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:15:11pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

But! But! It's a public service!

(Oh, and for money.)

65 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:17:21pm

re: #62 albusteve

wouldn't the charges be federal?

Only as a matter of last resort. They did cross state lines to execute the fraud and illegal wiretapping, but it was a New Hampshire election and they will get first bite at the apple.

66 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:21:15pm

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

It does, however, take someone who thinks of something beyond their own ego and goals as being remotely important.

That's so much more eloquent than #37.

67 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:22:12pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

I believe so. That was another one of their 'but if we're doing it for the Secret Society of Right-Wing Righteousness, they can't really arrest us, right?'

Wrong.

Nobody expects the Secret Society of Right-Wing Righteousness! Their chief weapon is surprise!

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:24:28pm

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And fear.

69 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:26:14pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

And fear.

Surprise and fear... and ruthless efficiency... THREE MAIN WEAPONS!

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:27:45pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.

71 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:28:22pm

re: #70 Slumbering Behemoth

And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope Breitbart.

72 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:29:20pm

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wait, I'll come in again.

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:29:43pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Everyone needs to make sacrifices."

"We'll pick who, and what kind."

74 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:30:56pm

re: #72 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, I'll come in again.

I wasn't expecting some sort of Secret Society of Right-Wing Righteousness!

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:31:54pm

re: #66 wrenchwench

That's so much more eloquent than #37.

Same concept.

76 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:32:11pm

Nobody expects the Secret Society of Right-Wing Righteousness!! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Breitbart, and cheap, pimp costumes. - Oh damn!

77 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:33:32pm

re: #76 Slumbering Behemoth

Nobody expects the Secret Society of Right-Wing Righteousness!! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Breitbart, and cheap, pimp costumes. - Oh damn!

Stop. Phew! Ah! ... our chief weapons are surprise...blah blah blah. Cardinal, read the charges.

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:39:37pm

I never thought I'd see the day when Monty Python would kill a thread here. This blog really has gone downhill.
/kidding

79 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:41:33pm

re: #78 Slumbering Behemoth

I never thought I'd see the day when Monty Python would kill a thread here. This blog really has gone downhill.
/kidding

It's not dead yet...

80 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:41:38pm

cheese puns anyone? Does anyone gruyere with me?

81 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:42:09pm

We just thought we'd bury it because we're going on holiday...

82 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:43:29pm

re: #79 wrenchwench

Look, matey, I know a dead thread when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

83 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:43:39pm

re: #50 albusteve

I'm an old hand...open the bag and the odor intoxicated the whole bunkhouse...sweet

My boss conducted a seminar on medicinal marijuana earlier this week.

If he only knew...

84 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:45:46pm

re: #80 PhillyPretzel

cheese puns anyone? Does anyone gruyere with me?

Casu marzu!!! Sorry, that was a rotten cheese pun.

85 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:46:15pm

re: #84 Slumbering Behemoth

Casu marzu!!! Sorry, that was a rotten cheese pun.

There are gouda cheese puns?

86 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:47:21pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Look, matey, I know a dead thread when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Put the budgie down....

87 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:47:56pm

re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I am fondue of most cheese puns.

88 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:48:12pm

re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I suppose there could brie, maybe I curd look a few up.

89 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:51:05pm

re: #88 Slumbering Behemoth
I am bleu.

90 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:52:38pm

re: #89 PhillyPretzel

I thought we were doing cheese puns, not sex puns.
/Oh, wait...

91 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:53:54pm

Saints/Niners is turning out to be a pretty awesome game.

92 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:54:15pm

re: #90 Slumbering Behemoth
No more port wine cheddar for you. ::: said in best Soup Nazi tone :::

93 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 4:59:59pm

?
David Frum: Threats may be all Iran has left

For years, people have wondered whether Israel or the United States would bomb Iran. That turns out to be the wrong question. Iran is being squeezed without war — and this fearful story of nuclear aggression and would-be genocide may yet have a happy ending.

Frum seems to completely ignore that Iran continues its bomb program. Last I heard they'll have enough enriched uranium within a year. They're willing to risk all out war and collapse their economy to get the bomb. Frum sees this as a failure, I see it as determination.

94 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:01:20pm

I think I'm going to compile a list of all the weird defamatory myths about me that right wingers are circulating. It's getting so ridiculous it's hard to keep track, and I probably haven't even seen half of them.

Robert Stacy "Neo-Confederate" McCain and Donald "Powerman" Douglas are now pushing the brand new "troop-hater" myth.

95 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:02:52pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

?
David Frum: Threats may be all Iran has left

Frum seems to completely ignore that Iran continues its bomb program. Last I heard they'll have enough enriched uranium within a year. They're willing to risk all out war and collapse their economy to get the bomb. Frum sees this as a failure, I see it as determination.

Yeah, and how many times have we heard that Iran is "a year away" from a bomb? If the regime doesn't make it through the year, it won't matter how much material they have ready.

96 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:03:41pm

re: #95 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And if the regime stays in power, they will eventually have a nuclear weapon.

97 blueraven  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:03:54pm

Saints!!

98 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:04:39pm

re: #94 Charles

Robert Stacy "Neo-Confederate" McCain and Donald "Powerman" Douglas are now pushing the brand new "troop-hater" myth.

Sure to be breathlessly repeated by the simpletons of the wingnut blogosphere. They know they've got nothing, that's why they constantly make shit up.

99 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:04:42pm

re: #94 Charles

I think I'm going to compile a list of all the weird defamatory myths about me that right wingers are circulating. It's getting so ridiculous it's hard to keep track, and I probably haven't even seen half of them.

Robert Stacy "Neo-Confederate" McCain and Donald "Powerman" Douglas are now pushing the brand new "troop-hater" myth.

If you don't support minority of assholes who give the military a bad rep and shit on all the good work the overwhelming majority of the troops do achieve, then you hate the troops.

100 sproingie  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:06:13pm

re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are gouda cheese puns?

Nope, I havarti heard all of them.

101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:07:29pm

re: #100 sproingie

Sounds to me like you've been feta line of bull.

102 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:07:33pm

re: #100 sproingie

Nope, I havarti heard all of them.

Maybe we can muenster up a few more.

103 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:08:20pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We could turn it into a nice cottage industry.

104 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:08:30pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I brie there are a few more.

105 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:08:48pm

re: #96 Obdicut

And if the regime stays in power, they will eventually have a nuclear weapon.

And then what? If we believe the regime so unstable that they'd commit national suicide to use the weapon immediately, then attempts at a diplomatic solution are pointless and air strikes will accomplish little more than to spur the regime on while also solidifying their support amongst a currently hostile populace.

106 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:11:51pm

SF!

107 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:12:13pm

re: #104 PhillyPretzel

I cantal if we've used them all up or not.

108 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:12:22pm

re: #103 Slumbering Behemoth

We could turn it into a nice cottage industry.

Only if you did it Caerphilly

109 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:13:15pm

34 points scored in the first three quarters, 34 points scored in the 4th quarter.

110 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:13:39pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth
I havarti know.

111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:15:31pm

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll herve to think on it, but in the mean time I need to make a quick run to the liquor store for morbier.

112 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:15:32pm

good fucking game

113 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:16:12pm

re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll herve to think on it, but in the mean time I need to make a quick run to the liquor store for morbier.

Perhaps we need a Bruder scope.

114 blueraven  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:18:04pm

re: #112 SpaceJesus

good fucking game

hella gouda!

115 jaunte  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:18:47pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are stiltons left.

116 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:19:06pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I do not know jack about that.

117 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:20:14pm

re: #116 PhillyPretzel

I do not know jack about that.

S'okay, it's nacho field of expertise.

118 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:20:26pm

great sports today. time to wash them down with some evangelical tears

119 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:22:18pm

re: #118 SpaceJesus

great sports today. time to wash them down with some evangelical tears

NOOO!

121 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:27:19pm

re: #119 Slumbering Behemoth
I do not wish to parm you.

122 Kragar  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:27:23pm
123 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:31:17pm

re: #105 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And then what? If we believe the regime so unstable that they'd commit national suicide to use the weapon immediately, then attempts at a diplomatic solution are pointless and air strikes will accomplish little more than to spur the regime on while also solidifying their support amongst a currently hostile populace.

Yeah, that's my point. Stalling the regime acquiring nuclear weapons does nothing.

124 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:32:13pm

re: #117 Slumbering Behemoth
I guess we cannot string that one along.

125 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:32:30pm

re: #123 Obdicut

Yeah, that's my point. Stalling the regime acquiring nuclear weapons does nothing.

So, then the only alternative is regime change. Good luck getting Russia or China to agree to that. Or, really, any major power for that matter.

126 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:36:08pm

Pats 70, Broncos 0

127 Linden Arden  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:36:25pm

That TD will be reversed.

Sad too. The nose just grazed the ground.

128 aagcobb  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:38:34pm

re: #127 Linden Arden

TD!

129 Linden Arden  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:41:36pm

re: #128 aagcobb

I am amazed they let that stand. The football hit the turf while the catch was in process.

Oh well.

130 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:42:59pm

pffft

131 aagcobb  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:43:40pm

re: #129 Linden Arden

Looks like this could be a loong game for the Broncos. Tebow can't win a shootout with Brady.

132 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:44:18pm

It appears that the Bronco defense is swiss cheese.

133 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:47:13pm

Wheel, it's been grate, but I aged today, so I gotta Chèvre off, caseinyone has something waiting for me.

Later, lizards.

134 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:47:28pm

re: #125 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, then the only alternative is regime change. Good luck getting Russia or China to agree to that. Or, really, any major power for that matter.

It has to come from within or it's not worth anything.

135 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 5:49:39pm

re: #134 Obdicut

It has to come from within or it's not worth anything.

Exactly. So, at the present time, our best course of action is to continue to pursue a diplomatic solution, while slowly cranking up the pressure on the regime. Either they will snap and act out or the people will. Any aggressive action on our part might as well just throw the people in the mullah's arms.

136 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 14, 2012 7:17:41pm

Like that good conservative Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili said, "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs." /

Nice to know that O'Keefe, Breitbart at al. share such a fine philosophy with that great statesman.


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