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Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both. Now, when I say question the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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252 comments
1 Hector1980  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 10:35:16pm

Obviously I need to read more MLK. I've never heard that quote before, and it's beautiful.

2 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 10:54:53pm

Hopefully in the coming decades the US of A can move on to more nuanced discussions of social and political organization.

Myself?I often find myself supporting social libertarianism with strong anti-oppression education and healthy interdependent communities.

3 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 10:55:57pm

A very Christian quote from the pastor. A good reminder of why he is included in Westminster Cathederal's 20th Century Martyr gallery as he was a true witness to the Lord.

4 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 11:08:29pm

What a brilliant quote. I can't help but think if he said this today the use of the word communism would make the right wing go crazy. (crazier).

5 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 11:10:17pm

re: #4 Iwouldprefernotto

What a brilliant quote. I can't help but think if he said this today the use of the word communism would make the right wing go crazy. (crazier).

I think they (and probably most Ds) would be more concerned about his support for the armed resistance of the Vietnamese against the US.

6 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 11:17:54pm

Civil wars are never that cut and dried as I was regularly reminded when we were in Vietnam in 2002 to adopt our son. The tour of the US built "presidential palace" in Saigon was most ... instructive ... in this regard. We were well treated and never given grief for being Americans. But there was a ... sadness... that they felt we had backed the wrong side but not a sense that it was out of malice.

A very strange place to be at times.

OTOH, a small price to pay for the utter joy of raising my beautiful brilliant boy.

7 freetoken  Sun, Jan 15, 2012 11:35:14pm

Dvorak ... reinterpreted:

8 freetoken  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 12:10:32am

Straight out of the creationists' playbook:

Climate change skepticism seeps into science classrooms

A flash point has emerged in American science education that echoes the battle over evolution, as scientists and educators report mounting resistance to the study of man-made climate change in middle and high schools.

Although scientific evidence increasingly shows that fossil fuel consumption has caused the climate to change rapidly, the issue has grown so politicized that skepticism of the broad scientific consensus has seeped into classrooms.

Texas and Louisiana have introduced education standards that require educators to teach climate change denial as a valid scientific position. South Dakota and Utah passed resolutions denying climate change. Tennessee and Oklahoma also have introduced legislation to give climate change skeptics a place in the classroom.

In May, a school board in Los Alamitos, Calif., passed a measure, later rescinded, identifying climate science as a controversial topic that required special instructional oversight.

"Any time we have a meeting of 100 teachers, if you ask whether they're running into pushback on teaching climate change, 50 will raise their hands," said Frank Niepold, climate education coordinator for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, who meets with hundreds of teachers annually. "We ask questions about how sizable it is, and they tell us it is [sizable] and pretty persistent, from many places: your administration, parents, students, even your own family."

Against this backdrop, the National Center for Science Education, an Oakland-based watchdog group that supports the teaching of evolution through advocacy and educational materials, plans to announce on Monday that it will begin an initiative to monitor the teaching of climate science and evaluate the sources of resistance to it.

NCSE, a small, nonpartisan group of scientists, teachers, clergy and concerned individuals, rose to prominence in the last decade defending evolution in the curriculum.

The controversy around "climate change education is where evolution was 20 years ago," said Eugenie Scott, executive director of NCSE.

[...]

9 freetoken  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 12:16:35am

And of course, the Moonies' Washington Times chimes in on the same story:


Scientists want climate change in young minds

Climate change subscribers say the fight against global warming will require younger soldiers.

On Monday, the National Center for Science Education, a nonprofit group that denounces intelligent design and supports an evolution-only curriculum in the classroom, will expand its mission. The organization of scientists, anthropologists and others is turning its attention to climate change, and it will mount an aggressive effort to teach the nation’s schoolchildren that climate change is real and is being driven by human activity.

“For 20 years, we’ve helped teachers cope with what we can only describe as societal or political problems in teaching evolution. They’re running into the same opposition in teaching climate change,” NCSE Executive Director Eugenie Scott said. “We worry, because of our experience with evolution, that basic science is going to be compromised as a result of this political and ideological opposition. Good science needs to be taught.”

[...]

Some already have faced persecution. Last week, Reuters news service reported that actor and conservative economist Ben Stein filed a $300,000 lawsuit against Japanese manufacturer Kyocera after, he said, the company booted him from an advertising campaign when it learned he doesn’t subscribe to the theory that humans are responsible for climate change.

Oh my... Ben Stein is being "persecuted"...

What the Moonie Times left out is that Stein, in a previous interview, gave his religious defense for this denialist position.

10 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 12:29:15am

re: #9 freetoken

And yet Aflac boots Gilbert Gottfried for telling jokes that are really par for the course as far as he's concerned and not a peep was made.

11 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 12:37:33am

"There is no such thing as 'society'"

-Maggie Thatcher

And we are all gentleman farmers, living autonomously on the forty acres we have carved out of the virgin wilderness...

12 freetoken  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:19:38am

re: #11 ralphieboy

"There is no such thing as 'society'"

Famous last words.

Or maybe not:

I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or"I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and[fo 1] there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation and it is, I think, one of the tragedies in which many of the benefits we give, which were meant to reassure people that if they were sick or ill there was a safety net and there was help, that many of the benefits which were meant to help people who were unfortunate—" It is all right. We joined together and we have these insurance schemes to look after it" . That was the objective, but somehow there are some people who have been manipulating the system and so some of those help and benefits that were meant to say to people: "All right, if you cannot get a job, you shall have a basic standard of living!" but when people come and say: "But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!" You say:"Look" It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!"

There is also something else I should say to them:"If that does not give you a basic standard, you know, there are ways in which we top up the standard. You can get your housing benefit."

But it went too far. If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society.[fo 2] There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate. And the worst things we have in life, in my view, are where children who are a great privilege and a trust—they are the fundamental great trust, but they do not ask to come into the world, we bring them into the world, they are a miracle, there is nothing like the miracle of life—we have these little innocents and the worst crime in life is when those children, who would naturally have the right to look to their parents for help, for comfort, not only just for the food and shelter but for the time, for the understanding, turn round and not only is that help not forthcoming, but they get either neglect or worse than that, cruelty.

13 freetoken  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:25:18am

Would Ron Paul approve?

From singing to stripping, lawmakers eye new regulations on seemingly everything

The Indiana of the future may be a state where the national anthem always is sung correctly, creationism is taught alongside evolution in schools, the danger of novelty lighters is extinguished forever, and you won't be able to buy a drink at a strip club but you might be able to buy a sawed-off shotgun, though probably not at a strip club.

The Republican-controlled General Assembly is set to consider legislation on all of those topics over the next two months.
Here's a closer look at some of the seemingly wackier bills out of the 789 proposed so far this year.

Senate Bill 122, sponsored by state Sen. Vaneta Becker, R-Evansville, requires the Indiana Department of Education to set performance standards for the singing of the national anthem at schools. [...]

Senate Bill 89, sponsored by state Sen. Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn, allows school corporations to require the teaching of "various theories concerning the origin of life," including "creation science." [...]

House Bill 1056, sponsored by state Rep. Randy Frye, R-Greensburg, makes illegal lighters shaped like an animal, animated character, [...]

Senate Bill 183, sponsored by Kruse and state Sen. Jim Banks, R-Columbia City, two of the most anti-regulation Republicans in the Senate, sets dozens of new regulations for adult businesses, including banning full nudity and the sale of alcohol at strip clubs, [...]

Senate Bill 377, sponsored by state Sen. John Waterman, R-Shelburn, would allow anyone authorized under federal law to manufacture, sell or own a sawed-off shotgun to be exempt from Indiana's ban shotguns with sawed-off barrels, [...]

14 freetoken  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:25:55am

Yepes plays some Tarrega:

15 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:26:32am

re: #12 freetoken

I found the context as well, and I understand her notion that "blaming society" should not be used as any sort of excuse for failing to look after one's own interests and those of one's dependents.

But in the meantime we have come to take it too far; now corporations, which are by nature collective organizations are treated as "individuals", which is truly perverse...

16 researchok  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:27:25am

Morning, all

17 researchok  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:32:41am

re: #14 freetoken

Sublime.

Perfect.

And Favorited.

18 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 2:35:44am

We are the nine on line: one baseball team or two polo teams plus one referee...

19 freetoken  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 2:54:16am

re: #18 ralphieboy

We are the nine on line: one baseball team or two polo teams plus one referee...

Specie-ist! What, horses don't count?

20 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 2:55:58am

no, just lizard supremacist: horses do not count unless they are registered LGF users

21 EdDantes  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 3:27:13am

re: #20 ralphieboy

no, just lizard supremacist: horses do not count unless they are registered LGF users

Although, in ancient Rome a horse could become consul.

22 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 3:33:43am

And in America a horse's ass can become a Senator.

23 EdDantes  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 3:42:49am

re: #22 ralphieboy

And in America a horse's ass can become a Senator.

It would take more than Hercules to clean that Augean stable.

24 darthstar  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:08:05am

Mitt the ripper...

25 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:13:19am

re: #24 darthstar

Go Niners!

26 darthstar  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:14:48am

re: #25 RogueOne

Go Niners!

Ugh...I have to either cheer for the 49ers or a Manning brother. This sucks.

27 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:16:57am

re: #26 darthstar

Whoever comes out of the NFC is going to be the fan favorite in Indy. Like you said, Harbaugh (whose name hangs in the Colts "Ring Of Honor") or Peytons little brother.

28 darthstar  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:18:59am

re: #27 RogueOne

Whoever comes out of the NFC is going to be the fan favorite in Indy. Like you said, Harbaugh (whose name hangs in the Colts "Ring Of Honor") or Peytons little brother.

and what the hell am I doing up at this hour? I should try to sleep for another hour before I have to drive around the lake...feh. I'll see you later...enjoy the playoffs.

29 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:21:49am

Great news for Indy:

Indiana's 1st Jack in the Box opens Monday
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:29:24am

Ever been a Super-Bowl where two brothers were opposing head coaches?

I think that's cool.

31 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:31:11am

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do you think the Ravens have much of a shot after the way they played against Houston yesterday?

32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:36:30am

re: #31 RogueOne

Hell of a defensive team against a hell of an offensive team.

Should be fun to watch.

33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:38:36am

Sure, the Pats stomped a mudhole in Denver, but Tebow was simply inept the other night.

34 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:39:52am

re: #32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll be rooting for the Ravens (everyone in Indiana will be rooting against the Pats) but I think it's going to be a blowout. The Ravens barely beat a 3rd string rookie QB, I don't see them keeping up with Tom Brady.

35 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:43:57am

re: #34 RogueOne

.......(everyone in Indiana will be rooting against the Pats) ....

Check out Indiana on the ESPN map:
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]

36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:44:09am

What do you think the networks are hoping for

A. NY/Boston
B. NY/Baltimore
C SF/Baltimore
D. SF/Boston

My guess is A. But? Get SF in there you get the whole left coast.

37 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:46:33am

re: #36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A Giants/Pats rematch would be a dream for the network. The Giants would beat the Pats, I'm not so sure about the Niners.

38 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:47:59am

re: #36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What do you think the networks are hoping for

A. NY/Boston
B. NY/Baltimore
C SF/Baltimore
D. SF/Boston

My guess is A. But? Get SF in there you get the whole left coast.

E. RON PAUL

39 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:49:36am

This is going to become the new meme for EPIC FAIL.

40 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:49:58am

re: #38 Varek Raith

Dammit!

41 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:50:44am

re: #39 Alouette

This is going to become the new meme for EPIC FAIL.

ALL ABOARD THE FAILBOAT!

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:51:07am

re: #39 Alouette

I made a joke about that picture, then I found that people had died. I felt bad.

43 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:51:52am

Aaron Rodgers wins the booby prize:

Miss Wisconsin Laura Kaeppeler Wins Miss America Pageant; Wants Aaron Rodgers To Call Her
[Link: network.yardbarker.com...]

Image: 216989.jpg

44 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 4:57:23am
45 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:00:48am

Morning Lizardim. Soon to become bitterly cold here in the wild north country - tonight's projected low is 0 degrees F (-18 degrees C), with an even colder night on Wednesday. Hope my block heater can hold up.

46 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:01:34am

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I made a joke about that picture, then I found that people had died. I felt bad.

HAV MOAR FAIL.

47 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:03:05am

Vineyards on the Rhine were covered in hoarfroast this morning. Love that word, and always appreciate the opportunity to use it

48 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:08:53am

Now this is how we roll in IT.

49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:15:08am

Watching the show "Grimm". I hope this show catches on. It's a very cool show. Well done, IMO.

Yeah snobs, I love tv.

50 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:22:52am

re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's good and bad TV. Most of the good TV gets canceled. Like The Good Guys.

51 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:27:27am

re: #50 Obdicut

There's good and bad TV. Most of the good TV gets canceled. Like The Good Guys.

I got hooked on a very short-lived series called "Firefly".
I want MORE. Unfortunately, never to be. Only 13 or 14 or so episodes. It got really good by the 3rd episode; then at the end of the season, was cancelled. argh.

52 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:38:36am

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ever been a Super-Bowl where two brothers were opposing head coaches?

I think that's cool.

I think it would utterly suck (Go Pats)

53 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:38:59am

I liked Firefly too. Unfortunately it's been adopted by the 'libertarians' as their official TV show.

It was still nowhere as good as Babylon 5. That was a show that often affected me deeply.

54 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:41:05am

re: #38 Varek Raith

E. RON PAUL

No question .... NY vs NE ... Great storylines ... NBC wants this one badly!

55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:41:22am

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

(My personal favorite MLK quote)

56 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:43:23am

re: #53 Romantic Heretic

I liked Firefly too. Unfortunately it's been adopted by the 'libertarians' as their official TV show.

[Video]

Which is a little idiotic, given what the show portrays about life in the lawless, no-central-government areas.

Sure, it's bad on the central planets, too, but the places Mal goes are no better, and often much worse.

57 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:43:55am

Martin Luther King Jr was perhaps the greatest American of my lifetime. He defined courage, leadership, and inspiration. He truly changed the world.

58 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:45:53am

re: #45 thedopefishlives

You keep it plugged in and on or on a timer. I was told to have my tractor heater on a timer, max length one hour. That way if you forget(which I'm doing more and more) it will shut off. The one month I did leave my P/U truck (years ago) plugged in my electric bill was $400 more that billing cycle.

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:46:05am

re: #57 _RememberTonyC

I'm kind of stunned that there is any controversy about the quotes on his monument.

I think it was monumentally stupid not to have his family and friends involved with the exact quotations and accuracy of them before they HIRED THE STONECARVER!

60 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:46:26am

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sure, the Pats stomped a mudhole in Denver, but Tebow was simply inept the other night.

It wasn't so much about Tebow's failure as it was about Brady's greatness.

61 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:46:55am

re: #58 Shropshire_Slasher

You keep it plugged in and on or on a timer. I was told to have my tractor heater on a timer, max length one hour. That way if you forget(which I'm doing more and more) it will shut off. The one month I did leave my P/U truck (years ago) plugged in my electric bill was $400 more that billing cycle.

I actually set my alarm for 2 hours before scheduled departure so I can run down and plug it in. I may actually pick up a timer on my way home from work tonight, because that's just too much work.

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:47:53am

re: #54 _RememberTonyC

Having the left coast in the big game would be cool for the networks too, wouldn't it?

63 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:48:01am

Israel-Arab cyber war continues: El-Al, Stock Exchange Sites Down

The Israelis aren't going to put up with this. Disrupting the stock exchange (even if it's just the website) is too much. Expect reprisals.

64 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:48:19am

My daughter is trying on wedding gowns.

65 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:50:18am

re: #56 Obdicut

Which is a little idiotic, given what the show portrays about life in the lawless, no-central-government areas.

Sure, it's bad on the central planets, too, but the places Mal goes are no better, and often much worse.

True dat.

But let's face it. Most 'libertarians' suffer from 'Meanest Son Of A Bitch In The Valley' syndrome. They wouldn't mind living in such a place because they think they'd be apex predators.

I almost wish they'd get their wish just to listen to them whine and watch them piss themselves when they find how screwed up their fantasies are.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:51:47am

re: #60 _RememberTonyC

It wasn't so much about Tebow's failure as it was about Brady's greatness.

It was a combination of the two. I swear, the passes leaving Tebow's hands were abominations unto the Lord and unto the god's of Football.

67 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:52:22am

re: #59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm kind of stunned that there is any controversy about the quotes on his monument.

I think it was monumentally stupid not to have his family and friends involved with the exact quotations and accuracy of them before they HIRED THE STONECARVER!

The sculptor was from China and it was clear that while he was "technically" competent, he had no "feel" for what MLK was all about. I oversee the production of those MLK vignettes you see on our air, so our company has some experience in dealing with the King. More interaction with the family was not necessary to avoid the "drum major" fiasco. Simply involving the right intellectuals and MLK admirers like Maya Angelou would have done the trick.

68 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:53:47am

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Having the left coast in the big game would be cool for the networks too, wouldn't it?

Doesn't matter ... The Giants have a national following. And EVERYONE already watches the game.

69 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:54:18am

The sculptor was Cinese? No wonder the monument looks like something that would commemorate Mao and the Long March...

70 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:54:56am

Lol, while we're on the topic of football, the Packers fans in the office are lamenting the way the game went yesterday. I have to admit, they did make a particularly spectacular farce of themselves on the field.

71 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:55:27am

re: #69 ralphieboy

The sculptor was Cinese? No wonder the monument looks like something that would commemorate Mao and the Long March...

EXACTLY RIGHT

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:55:32am

re: #67 _RememberTonyC

Of course. But I'm amazed that we got this far with something that would in any way/shape/form be upsetting to the family or ones who marched with him.

Over the top stupid, IMO.

73 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:56:43am

re: #65 Romantic Heretic

True dat.

But let's face it. Most 'libertarians' suffer from 'Meanest Son Of A Bitch In The Valley' syndrome. They wouldn't mind living in such a place because they think they'd be apex predators.

I almost wish they'd get their wish just to listen to them whine and watch them piss themselves when they find how screwed up their fantasies are.

When I think of guys like that, this guy comes to mind.

74 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 5:58:12am

re: #70 thedopefishlives

Lol, while we're on the topic of football, the Packers fans in the office are lamenting the way the game went yesterday. I have to admit, they did make a particularly spectacular farce of themselves on the field.

Coughlin is a good coach and the Giants have a very good formula for success in the postseason: run the ball effectively, control the clock, and play defense. It is always a good strategy in the playoffs. And it helped that GB's receivers dropped many catchable passes.

75 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:00:12am

re: #74 _RememberTonyC

Coughlin is a good coach and the Giants have a very good formula for success in the postseason: run the ball effectively, control the clock, and play defense. It is always a good strategy in the playoffs. And it helped that GB's receivers dropped many catchable passes.

The Giants-49ers game should be good. Both teams play defense, and Alex Smith beat Brees in a shootout, which I wouldn't have thought possible. Smith should be comeback player of the year, and Harbaugh coach of the year.

76 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:00:14am

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Of course. But I'm amazed that we got this far with something that would in any way/shape/form be upsetting to the family or ones who marched with him.

Over the top stupid, IMO.

Totally unnecessary ... Agreed

77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:00:46am

re: #69 ralphieboy

The sculptor was Cinese? No wonder the monument looks like something that would commemorate Mao and the Long March...

I was at the monument a few months ago. I am a fan.

Since the monument is new, there were hundreds of black folks there, touching the stone; having their pictures taken. I saw pride and tears.

Honestly? I felt like an interloper. I didn't go within fifty yards of the statue. Wanted to give the folks there "space". It is a strong monument and it's a shame that on this side of it's creation there is any controversy at all.

78 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:01:59am

re: #75 aagcobb

The Giants-49ers game should be good. Both teams play defense, and Alex Smith beat Brees in a shootout, which I wouldn't have thought possible. Smith should be comeback player of the year, and Harbaugh coach of the year.

Vernon Davis is a beast. If SF plays NE in the SB, you'll see the two best tight ends in the NFL with Rob Gronkowski and Davis.

79 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:02:35am

re: #75 aagcobb

The Giants-49ers game should be good. Both teams play defense, and Alex Smith beat Brees in a shootout, which I wouldn't have thought possible. Smith should be comeback player of the year, and Harbaugh coach of the year.

Drew Brees is arguably one of the most versatile quarterbacks in the league. I'd rank him with Brady and the elder Manning in a heartbeat. I was shocked when I checked the scores that night and saw that they had lost. It'll make the Giants-49ers game very interesting indeed.

80 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:03:00am

Good morning lizards. I should have today off but I'm working on a project. It sucks.

81 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:04:43am

re: #79 thedopefishlives

Drew Brees is arguably one of the most versatile quarterbacks in the league. I'd rank him with Brady and the elder Manning in a heartbeat. I was shocked when I checked the scores that night and saw that they had lost. It'll make the Giants-49ers game very interesting indeed.

It was a thrilling ending to the game; the teams just kept swapping TDs until time ran out.

82 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:09:35am

Storylines of interest if the Giants and Patriots play in the Super Bowl:

1) Rematch of 2008 SB when NY ruined NE's perfect season with Eli Manning's miracle play to David Tyree.

2) Brady goes for his 4th Super Bowl win, which would tie Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana.

3) NY vs Boston ... Another chapter in one of sports' most intense geographical rivalries.

4) Eli looks for his second SB victory in the stadium inhabited by his brother Peyton. Peyton and Eli each have one SB win, so family bragging rights are at stake.

83 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:09:48am

IDF arrests two Palestinians carrying pipe bombs, ammunition near Jenin

IDF forces arrested two Palestinians at a West Bank checkpoint on Monday, after they were caught with 10 pipe bombs, a makeshift handgun, and ammunition.

The two Palestinians, aged 20, were arrested at the Salem checkpoint near the Palestinian city of Jenin, where four Palestinians were also arrested last week for carrying makeshift bombs.

84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:23:16am

re: #82 _RememberTonyC

1) Rematch of 2008 SB when NY ruined NE's perfect season with Eli Manning's miracle play to David Tyree.

Not even arguably... The greatest play in SB history.

85 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:24:18am

Scroll down,[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I absolutely love David Furnish's shoes!

86 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:32:48am

re: #84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not even arguably... The greatest play in SB history.

No argument here ... Up until that day I always called Eli "Dopey Eli," but I never used that label ever again. It was the most clutch play I ever saw on a football field. And it wasn't just the catch. It was the way Eli extended the play and avoided being sacked about 3 different times.

87 iossarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:39:30am

re: #86 _RememberTonyC

No argument here ... Up until that day I always called Eli "Dopey Eli," but I never used that label ever again. It was the most clutch play I ever saw on a football field. And it wasn't just the catch. It was the way Eli extended the play and avoided being sacked about 3 different times.

Holding a kajillion times.

88 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:43:56am

re: #84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not even arguably... The greatest play in SB history.

Now you've got me Wiki-walking through famous NFL playoff game plays. Productivity: 0.

89 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:44:22am

re: #86 _RememberTonyC

Before the 2007 season, you could question Manning's fortitude and abilities, but after that Super Bowl run, you couldn't question whether he could get the job done. This season has solidified his skills and shown that he can get it done under the worst conditions. He had to start with a new WR corps, injuries and changes to the O-line, and yet put up the best numbers ever by a Giants QB. NFL record for TDs in 4th quarter.

He's gone from having an the look of a deer in the headlights to one of the cold stare of an assassin picking apart defenses. It's been remarkable to watch, and to see how the WR corps has turned into the one of the premier trios in the league (and the Giants were never known for their WRs). Now, if you blink, they're in the end zone on another 60+ yard jaunt.

Their running backs aren't quite getting it done as other Giant teams have done, but they helped ice the game yesterday. And the defense got opportunistic yesterday (and should have gotten one or two other turnover calls, turning things into a complete blowout). Right now, the Giants think that they can't be beat, and that's a good place to be. It starts with Eli, and now with the defense clicking, they're going to be tough, even on the road (again).

90 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:47:07am

Why I love Iceland:

[Link: www.fotopedia.com...]

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:51:31am

re: #90 Obdicut

Too fucking cold.

92 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:51:38am

re: #89 lawhawk

Before the 2007 season, you could question Manning's fortitude and abilities, but after that Super Bowl run, you couldn't question whether he could get the job done. This season has solidified his skills and shown that he can get it done under the worst conditions. He had to start with a new WR corps, injuries and changes to the O-line, and yet put up the best numbers ever by a Giants QB. NFL record for TDs in 4th quarter.

He's gone from having an the look of a deer in the headlights to one of the cold stare of an assassin picking apart defenses. It's been remarkable to watch, and to see how the WR corps has turned into the one of the premier trios in the league (and the Giants were never known for their WRs). Now, if you blink, they're in the end zone on another 60+ yard jaunt.

Their running backs aren't quite getting it done as other Giant teams have done, but they helped ice the game yesterday. And the defense got opportunistic yesterday (and should have gotten one or two other turnover calls, turning things into a complete blowout). Right now, the Giants think that they can't be beat, and that's a good place to be. It starts with Eli, and now with the defense clicking, they're going to be tough, even on the road (again).

All true ... But don't think for a moment that Brady, Belichick, and the Pats won't use the loss in Super Bowl XXII as powerful motivation if NE and NY play on February 5th. It will be a classic game!

93 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:53:00am

re: #89 lawhawk

I think the Niners match up better against the giants than the Pats. If they manage to beat San Fran they'll end up winning the SB in front of a friendly Indy crowd. I'm not so confident that the Niners can beat the Pats.

94 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:53:44am

re: #91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Too fucking cold.

Hot springs and endless amounts of natural geothermal energy.

95 iossarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:56:23am

re: #94 Obdicut

Hot springs and endless amounts of natural geothermal energy.

All this and wild pendulum swings between northern European social democracy and c-r-r-razee deregulated investment banking!

96 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 6:58:55am

re: #95 iossarian

And it's too expensive to get drunk in bars, so they all drink in their apartments until midnight and then go out to the bars. You get to the bar already drunk.

97 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:00:28am

re: #93 RogueOne

I think the Niners match up better against the giants than the Pats. If they manage to beat San Fran they'll end up winning the SB in front of a friendly Indy crowd. I'm not so confident that the Niners can beat the Pats.

SF defense is NASTY good

98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:04:50am

re: #94 Obdicut

Hot springs and endless amounts of natural geothermal energy.

Yes! And? Too fucking cold.

99 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:05:31am

re: #92 _RememberTonyC

Belichick is one of the best at game-planning, and he'd have 2 weeks to prep for the game. It would be an epic matchup to be sure, and both teams are peaking at the right time. Still, I have to wonder about the NE defense against the Giants.

But that assumes the Giants get past SF. SF showed they could run and gun, but can they do it again and their defense has been tight all season.It would make for a great game either way.

100 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:07:27am

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or, you could go to Yellowstone and get pretty much all those vistas and geographical/geological features, including geothermals, waterfalls, mountains, valleys, badlands, etc. A little cheaper to get to too.

101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:08:00am

re: #100 lawhawk

And? Seasons.

102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:09:19am

OH!

103 RogueOne  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:11:00am

re: #97 _RememberTonyC

Fangio coached the colts defense, to bad it was only for 2 years. I'm really rooting for Harbaugh and the Niners but it's not going to hurt my feelings any if a Manning ends up in the (probably one and only ever) Indy SB.

104 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:12:22am

re: #100 lawhawk

Or, you could go to Yellowstone and get pretty much all those vistas and geographical/geological features, including geothermals, waterfalls, mountains, valleys, badlands, etc. A little cheaper to get to too.

And also see the majestic moose.

105 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:13:51am

re: #104 oaktree

Møøse even...

106 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:16:22am

OT:

Zappos.com suffered major hack; credit cards weren't compromised, but as precaution the company is resetting all account passwords.

Subject: Information on the Zappos.com site - please create a new password

First, the bad news:

We are writing to let you know that there may have been illegal and unauthorized access to some of your customer account information on Zappos.com, including one or more of the following: your name, e-mail address, billing and shipping addresses, phone number, the last four digits of your credit card number (the standard information you find on receipts), and/or your cryptographically scrambled password (but not your actual password).

THE BETTER NEWS:

The database that stores your critical credit card and other payment data was NOT affected or accessed.

SECURITY PRECAUTIONS:

For your protection and to prevent unauthorized access, we have expired and reset your password so you can create a new password. Please follow the instructions below to create a new password.

We also recommend that you change your password on any other web site where you use the same or a similar password. As always, please remember that Zappos.com will never ask you for personal or account information in an e-mail. Please exercise caution if you receive any emails or phone calls that ask for personal information or direct you to a web site where you are asked to provide personal information.

PLEASE CREATE A NEW PASSWORD:

We have expired and reset your password so you can create a new password.

Please create a new password by visiting Zappos.com and clicking on the "Create a New Password" link in the upper right corner of the web site and follow the steps from there.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. If you have any additional questions about this process, please email us at passwordchange@zappos.com

107 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:19:41am

re: #106 lawhawk

OT:

Zappos.com suffered major hack; credit cards weren't compromised, but as precaution the company is resetting all account passwords.

I wonder if it's part of an Anon campaign. They're attacking the Israeli stock exchange, releasing the source code for Norton Antivirus, and a bunch of other shit this week. The Zappos attack seems to fit right in with the rest of their activity.

108 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:32:43am

Al-Qaida in Yemen captures town south of capital

A band of al-Qaida militants seized full control of a town 100 miles south of the Yemeni capital Sanaa on Monday, overrunning army positions, storming the local prison and freeing at least 150 inmates, security officials said.

The capture of Radda expanded already significant territorial conquests by the militants, who have taken advantage of the weak central government and political turmoil roiling the nation for the past year during an uprising inspired by Arab Spring revolts. Authoritarian President Ali Abdullah Saleh recently agreed to step down, but he remains a powerful force within the country and a spark for ongoing unrest.

The group had previously taken control of a string of towns in the mostly lawless south. But its capture of Radda is particularly important because it gives the militants a territorial foothold closer than ever before to the capital, where many sleeper cells of the terror network are thought to be located.

109 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:34:03am
According to security officials, a band of about 200 militants pushed into Radda on Monday from several points they had captured over the weekend, including an ancient castle that overlooks the town, a school and a mosque. They stormed the local jail and freed 150-200 inmates, including an unspecified number of militants loyal to al-Qaida.

Some of the freed inmates joined the militants after they were given arms, according to the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak with the media.

Bummer.

110 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:35:11am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

iirc, in the same raid a Norwegian UN worker was taken captive

111 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:36:02am

re: #110 sattv4u2

iirc, in the same raid a Norwegian UN worker was taken captive

Shit.

112 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:36:11am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

A band of al-Qaida militants Yutes
,,,,

//

113 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:39:24am

re: #110 sattv4u2

iirc, in the same raid a Norwegian UN worker was taken captive

Weren't there comments this past weekend that indicated that messing with Norwegian citizens is not conducive to good health?

114 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:42:04am

re: #113 oaktree

Weren't there comments this past weekend that indicated that messing with Norwegian citizens is not conducive to good health?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:53:16am

Morning all!

I'm looking at all the tasks I have planned to accomplish this week and I don't want to do any of them.

How are you?

116 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:54:11am

re: #115 ggt

Morning all!

I'm looking at all the tasks I have planned to accomplish this week and I don't want to do any of them.

How are you?

Thankful I'm not you this week!!!
/

117 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:56:08am

Iran makes arrests in killing of nuclear scientist

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Be prepared for a show trial "proving" links to Israel and/or "the west"

118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:57:04am

re: #94 Obdicut

Hot springs and endless amounts of natural geothermal energy.

Is that another way of saying, "Your entire island is sitting atop a gigantic caldera."?

119 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:57:36am

re: #115 ggt

Morning all!

I'm looking at all the tasks I have planned to accomplish this week and I don't want to do any of them.

How are you?

In a similar boat. Have some tasks on hand that are going to be a slog and not fun to do. Avoidance will only take me so far before I hit a reef.

120 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 7:58:54am

re: #119 oaktree

In a similar boat. Have some tasks on hand that are going to be a slog and not fun to do. Avoidance will only take me so far before I hit a reef.

Upding for tying that together!!

121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:00:30am

re: #115 ggt

Morning all!

I'm looking at all the tasks I have planned to accomplish this week and I don't want to do any of them.

How are you?

Thanks. You just gave me the little boost I needed to get off of my ass and get something done.

122 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:01:06am

re: #121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks. You just gave me the little boost I needed to get off of my ass and get something done.

Does the "get something done" involve a snuggie?

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:02:05am

re: #119 oaktree

In a similar boat. Have some tasks on hand that are going to be a slog and not fun to do. Avoidance will only take me so far before I hit a reef.

None of it is difficult or distasteful. Just normal daily chores. Everyone's life should be so hard.

I shouldn't complain. I have a good life.

124 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:03:23am

re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is that another way of saying, "Your entire island is sitting atop a gigantic caldera."?

We all are.

[Link: dsc.discovery.com...]

The crater atop Mount St. Helens is about 2 square miles. The Yellowstone "caldera" — a depression in the Earth equivalent to a crater top — is some 1,500 square miles.

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:03:59am

Just made the first payment for my new car. UGH! It really hurt.

Insurance is going up as well. Third car with a teenage driver.

Who, had a little accident yesterday. Was trying to parallel park and tapped the bumper of the car ahead of him in the parking places.

Such a good kid, he left a note and told his parents.

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:08:09am

I haven't paid (payed) attention to the world at large since before Christmas. Haven't read anything not fiction/escape oriented.

Is there anything I should know about?

127 iossarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:09:24am

re: #126 ggt

I haven't paid (payed) attention to the world at large since before Christmas. Haven't read anything not fiction/escape oriented.

Is there anything I should know about?

We have three weeks left. Did you not get the memo?

128 Bear  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:10:14am

re: #126 ggt

You are much better off not knowing.

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:13:09am

re: #127 iossarian

We have three weeks left. Did you not get the memo?

re: #128 Bear

You are much better off not knowing.

3 weeks. Well, I'll be able to finish a few books then.

Ignorance has it's benefits.

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:14:00am

I've been enjoying the escapist writings of Guy Gavriel Kay. Not great literature, but, it keeps me interested.

3 weeks, maybe I'll try to finish the Silmarillion.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:14:32am

yo

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:15:39am

re: #131 Sergey Romanov

yo

Yao

133 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:17:25am

re: #130 ggt

I've been enjoying the escapist writings of Guy Gavriel Kay. Not great literature, but, it keeps me interested.

I read 3-4 of his novels a few years back. Fairly enjoyable and I liked some of the semi-historical riffs.

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:19:05am

re: #133 oaktree

I read 3-4 of his novels a few years back. Fairly enjoyable and I liked some of the semi-historical riffs.

Yeah, not bad stuff. Good characters.

135 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:21:41am

re: #134 ggt

Yeah, not bad stuff. Good characters.

I concur. Of the ones I read I think I liked _The Lions of Al-Rassan_ the best. _Tigana_ had some interesting stuff in it. Liked _The Sarantine Mosaic_ the least - but then I've seen Justinian and Constantinople analogs a few times too many in fiction by now.

136 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:22:37am

re: #134 ggt

Yeah, not bad stuff. Good characters.

Have you read any of Bujold's "Chalion" novels? _Curse of Chalion_ is the first one.

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:24:32am

re: #136 oaktree

Have you read any of Bujold's "Chalion" novels? _Curse of Chalion_ is the first one.

No, checking my Audible. It's there, and added to my queue.

Have you read any of this author?

I read (listened) to this book and it also kept me going. Again, not great literature, but good mystery and good resolution.

139 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:26:37am

re: #137 ggt

No, checking my Audible. It's there, and added to my queue.

Have you read any of this author?

I read (listened) to this book and it also kept me going. Again, not great literature, but good mystery and good resolution.

Not familiar with that author. Will look into it. Thanks for the recommendation.

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:26:40am

I found 3 or 4 really good modern literature last year. Can't say I've stumbled upon any this year. Well, the last 12 months or so.

I'm still reeling over this book. Some of the best writing I've come across--ever.

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:27:50am

Ruth Rendell writing as Ruth Rendell or Barbara Vine is never a disappointment.

142 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:29:54am

re: #140 ggt

I found 3 or 4 really good modern literature last year. Can't say I've stumbled upon any this year. Well, the last 12 months or so.

I'm still reeling over this book. Some of the best writing I've come across--ever.

Hmm. You might like Umberto Eco. I've read _The Name of the Rose_ and _Foucalt's Pendulum_. The latter fits the current US political climate since it is about conspiracy theories in part.

143 iossarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:30:43am

re: #130 ggt

3 weeks, maybe I'll try to finish the Silmarillion.

I love me some Tolkein, but the Silmarillion is turgid, turgid stuff.

144 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:31:36am

re: #142 oaktree

Hmm. You might like Umberto Eco. I've read _The Name of the Rose_ and _Foucalt's Pendulum_. The latter fits the current US political climate since it is about conspiracy theories in part.

Read them and yes, I love Eco. The last one I read (listened to) was this one. He is really good at twisting my brain.

The Island of the Day Before almost drove me into therapy ---LOL

not really, but it was a challenge.

145 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:32:18am

re: #143 iossarian

I love me some Tolkein, but the Silmarillion is turgid, turgid stuff.

OMG, I had to make spreadsheets to get it all straight --listen on audio and read at the same time.

It's so beautiful tho. worth the effort.

I LOVE Tolkien's creation story.

146 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:33:49am

re: #143 iossarian

I love me some Tolkein, but the Silmarillion is turgid, turgid stuff.

I've read the creation part of that book once. The rest is an interesting read in a world history, taken in parts. And it makes a later reading of _The Lord of the Rings_ deeper since you "get" a lot of the cultural references made by various characters in passing.

147 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:35:28am

I am waiting for this novel to come out. [Link: www.baenebooks.com...]

148 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:35:30am

re: #146 oaktree

I've read the creation part of that book once. The rest is an interesting read in a world history, taken in parts. And it makes a later reading of _The Lord of the Rings_ deeper since you "get" a lot of the cultural references made by various characters in passing.

Hubby finally relented and we watched the LOTR series as a family. He's not into fantasy or such stuff. He didn't enjoy it.

I hadn't seen the movies since I started the Silmarillion. Things make so much MORE sense.

It got up to the story of Barien and Luthien (spelling?) and quit.

149 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:36:14am

re: #144 ggt

Read them and yes, I love Eco. The last one I read (listened to) was this one. He is really good at twisting my brain.

The Island of the Day Before almost drove me into therapy ---LOL

not really, but it was a challenge.

I figured you probably knew of Eco's works, but it was worth making sure.

I've not been on much of a fiction run recently beyond reading some of the more recent Prattchet and Bujold novels. Mainly reading history and some biography (alternating between biographies of MacArthur and Truman at the same time.)

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:36:15am

re: #147 PhillyPretzel

I am waiting for this novel to come out. [Link: www.baenebooks.com...]

oooh, David Weber or John Ringo --good escapist writing.

I loved John Ringo's The Last Centurion. On audio, it was fantastic.

151 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:36:53am

re: #149 oaktree

I figured you probably knew of Eco's works, but it was worth making sure.

I've not been on much of a fiction run recently beyond reading some of the more recent Prattchet and Bujold novels. Mainly reading history and some biography (alternating between biographies of MacArthur and Truman at the same time.)

I go in binges --fiction vs. non-fiction.

I can only handle so much reality.

152 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:37:27am

re: #148 ggt

Hubby finally relented and we watched the LOTR series as a family. He's not into fantasy or such stuff. He didn't enjoy it.

I hadn't seen the movies since I started the Silmarillion. Things make so much MORE sense.

It got up to the story of Barien and Luthien (spelling?) and quit.

Here's a bat.
/

153 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:38:35am
154 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:40:21am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Rabid lefty and OWS shill, Chris Hedges, is suing Obama...

Why I’m Suing Barack Obama

He goes on to proudly highlight his own associations with terrorists...

I met regularly with leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza. I used to visit Palestine Liberation Organization leaders, including Yasser Arafat and Abu Jihad, in Tunis when they were branded international terrorists. I have spent time with the Revolutionary Guard in Iran and was in northern Iraq and southeastern Turkey with fighters from the Kurdistan Workers’ Party. All these entities were or are labeled as terrorist organizations by the U.S. government

What a dick.

155 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:41:45am

Oh, this is fun:

Activists say pro-Santorum vote was rigged

A civil war is breaking out among evangelical leaders over allegations of a rigged election and ballot stuffing at a Saturday gathering of religious and social conservatives.

At the meeting about 150 religious conservative activists at the Benham, Texas, ranch of Nancy and Paul Pressler, Rick Santorum supporters claimed the former Pennsylvania senator was chosen on the third ballot as the consensus candidate to try to stop Mitt Romney’s march to the Republican presidential nomination.

The meeting was called to avoid a continued division within social conservatives’ ranks.

But in back-and-forth emails, Protestant fundamentalist leaders who attended – most of them backing former House Speaker Newt Gingrich to be the anti-Romney candidate — are accusing Catholic participants of conniving to rig the vote.

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:42:11am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

I Don't Believe in Atheists (2008)

I Don't Believe in Atheists (ISBN 141656795X), published in March 2008, is a critique of what Hedges perceives as a radical mindset that rages against religion and faith. Hedges states the book was motivated by debates he had with atheist authors Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens who, Hedges feels, excessively demonize religion, particularly Islam, in ways that, Hedges believes, were eerily similar to the thinking of Christian fundamentalists. The 2009 paperback edition (1416570780) was retitled When Atheism Becomes Religion: America's New Fundamentalists.

What a douche! ///

157 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:42:19am

re: #154 Killgore Trout
I would call him something else. Traitor is one word that might fit.

158 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:44:21am

re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was at the monument a few months ago. I am a fan.

Since the monument is new, there were hundreds of black folks there, touching the stone; having their pictures taken. I saw pride and tears.

Honestly? I felt like an interloper. I didn't go within fifty yards of the statue. Wanted to give the folks there "space". It is a strong monument and it's a shame that on this side of it's creation there is any controversy at all.

MLK is (or can be) a hero for everyone. Not just black people, not just Americans. You probably would not have been seen as an interloper. People might have felt heartened that a Fat Bastard white guy was enjoying his visit there too.

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:45:13am

re: #158 wrenchwench

(except Ron Paul)

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:45:34am

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

What a douche! ///

What so many believers don't seem to understand is that individuals are often ABUSED IN THE NAME OF G-D.

I've met more than one athiest that decided against religion and G-d because they were abused as children in by religious parents. Being logical, sane children they decided they weren't going that route.

Geez, just growing-up Catholic is enough to do it to many people. I can certainly understand.

One, IMHO, doesn't have to shout their faith from the rooftops in order to live a good and moral life.

161 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:46:10am

re: #158 wrenchwench

MLK is (or can be) a hero for everyone. Not just black people, not just Americans. You probably would not have been seen as an interloper. People might have felt heartened that a Fat Bastard white guy was enjoying his visit there too.

I think that was his point --no?

Character, not skin color.

162 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:46:13am

re: #159 Sergey Romanov

(except Ron Paul)

That's a very useful phrase.

163 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:47:13am

I don't think Chris Hedges is bad guy at all. Not sure how you can be a shill for OWS either. It's not like being paid off by a corporation, religion or government. He just believes in aspects of it; or perhaps he simply believes in the importance of resistance.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:47:34am

re: #152 Varek Raith

Here's a bat.
/

Won't work on hubby.

165 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:49:58am

re: #163 Alexzander

I don't think Chris Hedges is bad guy at all.

He's pro terrorist and anti Israel. He's a massive asshole.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:53:06am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Hater's gotta hate.

167 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:53:37am

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

What a douche! ///

He sees the Occupy movement as a revitalizing force for Christianity...


Where Were You When They Crucified My Lord?

The Occupy movement is the force that will revitalize traditional Christianity in the United States or signal its moral, social and political irrelevance.

168 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:55:51am

Chris Hedges: Coveting the Holocaust

Norman Finkelstein, who for his writings has been virtually blacklisted, noted in “The Holocaust Industry” that the Jewish Holocaust has allowed Israel to cast itself and “the most successful ethnic group in the United States” as eternal victims. Finkelstein, the son of Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust, goes on to argue that this status has enabled Israel, which has “a horrendous human rights record,” to play the victim as it oppresses Palestinians or destroys Lebanon. This victim status has permitted U.S. Jewish organizations (the American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress and others) to get their hands on billions of dollars in reparations, much of which never finds its way to the dwindling number of Holocaust survivors. Finkelstein’s mother, who was in the Warsaw ghetto, received $3,500, while the World Jewish Congress walked away with roughly $7 billion in compensation moneys.

He's a very sick and twisted person.

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:56:32am

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Interesting.

PS: Frankly, tho? Meh. Another non-entity doing something or other.

170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:57:48am

re: #158 wrenchwench

I did not feel unwelcome there in the least.

I saw people having their pictures taken who were of the age to have been at his side.

Was truly a beautiful moment, and I just didn't want to get in the way.

171 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 8:58:28am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Rabid lefty and OWS shill, Chris Hedges, is suing Obama...

Why I’m Suing Barack Obama

Is he the guy who claimed that the IDF regularly shot little Palestinian kids just for grins and giggles?

172 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:02:07am

re: #169 Sergey Romanov

Interesting.

PS: Frankly, tho? Meh. Another non-entity doing something or other.

His is a bigger entity than many of the people we regularly discuss here at LGF *cough*geller*cough.*

Hedges was part of a pulitzer prize winning team of reporters at the NYTimes. On the topic of religion he has a Masters of Divinity from Harvard.
He has written several big selling books in the past five years challenging and critiquing the left, rather than just perpetuating the same old circle-jerk.

173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:02:07am

re: #170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Also, to be honest? It was a kick to be at a National Monument before it was dedicated. Few people can say that.

174 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:04:01am

re: #171 Alouette

Is he the guy who claimed that the IDF regularly shot little Palestinian kids just for grins and giggles?

Probably. He's very supportive of Hamas, sounds like the sort of thing he'd write.

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:06:55am

re: #172 Alexzander

Dunno, I see the types of Geller causing regular derpstorms and influencing various shooters. What did Hedges do recently that was of significant public influence? (I acknowledge he has a Pulitzer etc.)

176 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:07:18am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Probably. He's very supportive of Hamas, sounds like the sort of thing he'd write.

Found it here.

177 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:08:26am

re: #169 Sergey Romanov

PS: Frankly, tho? Meh. Another non-entity doing something or other.

Yeah, this. Don't know the guy. Don't really care, either. He's just another in a long line of pundits with an opinion. *shrug*

178 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:10:04am

re: #176 Alouette

Found it here.

Ugh, I just finished reading his Holocaust article. My blood is boiling.

179 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:11:53am

re: #177 Lidane

Yeah, this. Don't know the guy. Don't really care, either. He's just another in a long line of pundits with an opinion. *shrug*

He's fairly influential with the radical left and the Occupy movement.
[Link: www.google.com...]

180 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:12:29am

re: #172 Alexzander

His is a bigger entity than many of the people we regularly discuss here at LGF *cough*geller*cough.*

Hedges was part of a pulitzer prize winning team of reporters at the NYTimes. On the topic of religion he has a Masters of Divinity from Harvard.
He has written several big selling books in the past five years challenging and critiquing the left, rather than just perpetuating the same old circle-jerk.

Hedges didn't get his start at LGF and refer to Charles as his "blogfather". Are you saying we should not pay attention to her here?

181 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:15:33am

re: #180 wrenchwench

Hedges didn't get his start at LGF and refer to Charles as his "blogfather". Are you saying we should not pay attention to her here?

I think she is a non-entity.

182 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:17:14am

re: #145 ggt

OMG, I had to make spreadsheets to get it all straight --listen on audio and read at the same time.

It's so beautiful tho. worth the effort.

I LOVE Tolkien's creation story.

This is all you need to read to know the Silmarillion...

[Link: www.megaloceros.net...]

183 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:17:52am

re: #181 Alexzander

I think she is a non-entity.

I think she is a dangerous entity. She doesn't know the difference between "insight" and "incitement". Incitement precedes many crimes, including assassinations and genocide.

184 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:20:23am

re: #183 wrenchwench

She's a hater. And as a breed there are few kinds of people more dangerous than haters.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:20:40am

re: #181 Alexzander

I think she is a non-entity.

Rather, she should be one. The political situation is such that crap like her floats to the surface from time to time,
Moreover, as ww pointed out, she is relevant locally.
Hedges? Maybe I stumbled upon him a couple of times throughout the years, can't remember. The name certainly didn't ring a bell. A big honcho in a dead movement? Whatever.

186 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:21:36am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Never read any of his books. Don't know who he is. You might as well point at a journalist from New Zealand, for all I know.

187 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:23:17am

re: #186 Lidane

Never read any of his books. Don't know who he is. You might as well point at a journalist from New Zealand, for all I know.

But but but he's IMPORTANT because he shows how ebil OWS is!!!

188 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:23:34am
189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:24:34am
190 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:24:40am

re: #188 Rightwingconspirator

Romney/Huntsman 2012?
(Facebook)

I think that for all the whining, the religious right will swallow Romney. But double Mormon "missionary team"? No.

191 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:25:00am

re: #188 Rightwingconspirator

Romney/Huntsman 2012?
(Facebook)

Please! Obama will carry every southern state because all the fundies will stay home.

192 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:27:23am

re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just. Wow.

If he threw himself in front of the train, I might begin to see her point...

193 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:28:03am

re: #191 wlewisiii

Please! Obama will carry every southern state because all the fundies will stay home.

They won't vote for R-H, but neither they will vote for Obama. R-H would probably still win, just barely because there are still more R's, and thus more moderate R's.

194 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:28:15am

re: #155 Lidane

Snerk. I love how much they hate it when their methods are used against them. Pot, meet kettle.

195 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:29:10am

There is no way in hell a Romney/Huntsman ticket will ever happen. I lose a little bit of respect (with regard to political knowledge) for everyone who seriously wonders about it.
The basic requirement of the VP is the diversify the demographics of the ticket. For fucks sake.

196 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:29:39am

re: #188 Rightwingconspirator

Romney/Huntsman 2012?
(Facebook)

Romney will need a nut for VP.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:30:33am

re: #196 Varek Raith

Romney will need a nut for VP.

Because it worked beautifully in 2008.

198 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:30:42am

re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just. Wow.

Yeah, I laughed when I read that.
Lol.

199 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:31:40am

re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just. Wow.

"Turned out he was just full of it..."

200 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:31:52am

re: #197 Sergey Romanov

Because it worked beautifully in 2008.

Therein lies the problem.
The base thinks he's Obama-lite. He'll need a 'real' conservative on the ticket.
Problem with this is he then alienates moderates.
WHEEE

201 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:32:05am

re: #195 Alexzander

The basic requirement of the VP is the diversify the demographics of the ticket.

Which is exactly why Romney/Huntsman would never happen. They don't balance each other at all. Plus, you can kiss the evangelical South goodbye with a GOP ticket that has two Mormons on it. That will never happen.

Just watch. Romney is going to get saddled with a teabagger religious nut, just like McCain was with Palin. It will be the only way to get the religious right to vote for Mitt.

202 albusteve  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:32:05am

re: #195 Alexzander

There is no way in hell a Romney/Huntsman ticket will ever happen. I lose a little bit of respect (with regard to political knowledge) for everyone who seriously wonders about it.
The basic requirement of the VP is the diversify the demographics of the ticket. For fucks sake.

I'm worried to death over the VP slot...I need a Xanax

203 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:32:06am

re: #196 Varek Raith

Romney will need a nut for VP.

The other GOP candidates are so busy attacking him that they have obviously written off a spot on his ticket: who could he possibly choose?

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:32:41am

re: #202 albusteve

I'm worried to death over the VP slot...I need a Xanax

Here's some amidol for you.

/

205 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:33:34am

No worries, Alan West is offering himself as a VP candidate.

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

206 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:33:48am

re: #203 ralphieboy

The other GOP candidates are so busy attacking him that they have obviously written off a spot on his ticket: who could he possibly choose?

I have no clue.
Fun, isn't it???

207 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:33:56am

If Nikki Haley wasn't a Sikh she would be an ideal VP candidate. It will obviously have to be a Christian, probably evangelical.

208 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:35:02am

I think Bachmann is probably on the short list for VP. She was clearly in dialogue with the Romney campaign early, hence her lack of criticism of him during the debates.
A female VP will certainly help the GOP ticket.

209 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:35:34am

re: #205 ralphieboy

No worries, Alan West is offering himself as a VP candidate.

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

He would be an extremely strong choice.

210 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:35:46am

re: #208 Alexzander

I think Bachmann is probably on the short list for VP. She was clearly in dialogue with the Romney campaign early, hence her lack of criticism of him during the debates.
A female VP will certainly help the GOP ticket.

No, it won't.

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:36:09am

re: #209 Alexzander

He would be an extremely strong choice.

Ugh.

212 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:36:17am

re: #208 Alexzander

I think Bachmann is probably on the short list for VP. She was clearly in dialogue with the Romney campaign early, hence her lack of criticism of him during the debates.
A female VP will certainly help the GOP ticket.

Just like a female VP helped the last one?

Bachmann is just as crazy as Palin. Maybe even crazier, since she actually believes the things she says. No way would she help Mitt in the general election.

213 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:39:00am

re: #209 Alexzander

He would be an extremely strong choice.

As VP he will personally go to Afghanistan and pee on every corpse he finds.

214 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:39:05am

News item: MTV hottie Tila Tequila is Planning to become Jewish.

[Link: www.tmz.com...]

In related news, Mindy Manischewitz wants to become Vietnamese-American.

215 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:39:32am

re: #207 Alexzander

If Nikki Haley wasn't a Sikh she would be an ideal VP candidate. It will obviously have to be a Christian, probably evangelical.

She refers to herself as a Christian, specifically a Methodist. Does that not count?

216 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:39:38am

This is the problem that Mitt is moving into: he needs someone to the right of him to keep the GOP base morivated and on mission, but almost anyone to the right of him is going to seriously alienate moderate voters.

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:39:50am

re: #212 Lidane

Just like a female VP helped the last one?

Bachmann is just as crazy as Palin. Maybe even crazier, since she actually believes the things she says. No way would she help Mitt in the general election.

Let's get down and dirty here: supposedly, with Palin there was a hotness factor. Myself, I didn't notice it, but Rich Lowry's indicator was up all the way...

I think there's no such factor with Bachmann.

218 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:40:22am

re: #215 wrenchwench

She refers to herself as a Christian, specifically a Methodist. Does that not count?

Not enough to convince a lot of bigots that she is not a [bigoted word descriptive of people who wear turbans].

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:40:25am

re: #213 JasonA

As VP he will personally go to Afghanistan and pee on every corpse he finds.

Then he will drill someone's head and ...

220 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:40:36am

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

Let's get down and dirty here: supposedly, with Palin there was a hotness factor. Myself, I didn't notice it, but Rich Lowry's indicator was up all the way...

I think there's no such factor with Bachmann.

No stars burst for Michelle?

221 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:40:48am

re: #215 wrenchwench

She refers to herself as a Christian, specifically a Methodist. Does that not count?

Sekrit Muslin Sikh!!!!!

222 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:41:24am

re: #220 JasonA

No stars burst for Michelle?

Ask Rich about his hotometer.

223 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:41:33am

re: #220 JasonA

No stars burst for Michelle?

But she has the Dr. Evil wardrobe!

224 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:41:37am

re: #210 Varek Raith

No, it won't.

Why do you say that?

225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:44:10am

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

I think Palin is/was hot. Honestly? I was absolutely thinking with "little FBV" when it came to her.

226 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:44:46am

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What does lil' FBV say about Michelle?

227 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:46:49am

re: #226 Sergey Romanov

What does lil' FBV say about Michelle?

Michelle Obama? "Damn!"

Michelle Bachmann? "Not so much."

228 allegro  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:47:47am

re: #224 Alexzander

Why do you say that?

What might be more meaningful is to ask why you would believe adding a woman to the Rep. ticket would be helpful?

229 iossarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:49:25am

Just as well we spent years and trillions of dollars sorting Iraq out. It's a much better place now!

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

230 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:50:28am

re: #228 allegro

What might be more meaningful is to ask why you would believe adding a woman to the Rep. ticket would be helpful?

Starbursts, of course.

///

231 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:50:36am

re: #195 Alexzander

There is no way in hell a Romney/Huntsman ticket will ever happen. I lose a little bit of respect (with regard to political knowledge) for everyone who seriously wonders about it.
The basic requirement of the VP is the diversify the demographics of the ticket. For fucks sake.

Usually you would be right right. This year is different.
Vareks #196 made THE point there. The alternatives are way nutty and will hurt everywhere not fundie oriented.

232 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:52:05am

re: #228 allegro

What might be more meaningful is to ask why you would believe adding a woman to the Rep. ticket would be helpful?

To present themselves as something other than a party of rich white guys. That is what Alan West is also basing his offer on.

Problem is that it might backfire on them.

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:53:01am

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator

IMO? Fudies, given the choice between a "Sekrit Muslim" and the "Osmond Family" are going to choose the Osmond's.

234 allegro  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:53:28am

Oh, and Happy official Robert E. Lee Day!

Image: mlk_day.jpg

/// and more/// and still more///

235 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:53:32am

re: #228 allegro

What might be more meaningful is to ask why you would believe adding a woman to the Rep. ticket would be helpful?

1. I think R strategists are wary of the GOP too obviously appearing as the party for old white Christian men. A racial minority (Rubio or Allen) or a woman (Bachmann) are obvious choices.
2. Pretty clearly broadens the demographics of the ticket to the other 51percent of the country (although Romney does better than all the other candidates with female voters already).

236 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:53:44am

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator

The alternatives are way nutty and will hurt everywhere not fundie oriented.

The problem is, the GOP's conservative base hates Romney on principle and they need a reason to vote for him. A wingnut/teabagger VP is what he needs in order to get them to the polls, but a wingnut/teabagger VP alienates everyone else.

He's got the same problem McCain did -- an unenthusiastic base that basically has to force themselves to consider voting for him.

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:53:48am

re: #229 iossarian

Just as well we spent years and trillions of dollars sorting Iraq out. It's a much better place now!

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

But but but Saddam's torture chambers!!1

238 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:55:16am

re: #235 Alexzander

1. I think R strategists are wary of the GOP too obviously appearing as the party for old white Christian men.

LOL! It's a bit late for that. They've been the party of old white Christian men for decades.

239 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:55:36am

re: #234 allegro

Oh, and Happy official Robert E. Lee Day!

Image: mlk_day.jpg

So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that Slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interest of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this that I would have cheerfully lost all that I have lost by the war, and have suffered all that I have suffered to have this object attained.
-General Robert E. Lee

240 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:56:13am

re: #235 Alexzander

1. I think R strategists are wary of the GOP too obviously appearing as the party for old white Christian men. A racial minority (Rubio or Allen) or a woman (Bachmann) are obvious choices.
2. Pretty clearly broadens the demographics of the ticket to the other 51percent of the country (although Romney does better than all the other candidates with female voters already).

How about a female ethnic minority? You've ruled out Haley as a former Sikh, how about Susana Martinez? She's a life-long Catholic, but she's a former Democrat.

241 iossarian  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:56:17am

re: #237 Sergey Romanov

But but but Saddam's torture chambers!!1

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

But Halliburton got paid so I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

242 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:56:46am

re: #241 iossarian

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

But Halliburton got paid so I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

Because of chem trails...

243 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:57:04am

re: #238 Lidane

LOL! It's a bit late for that. They've been the party of old white Christian men for decades.

It has been a country for old white (land owning) men for much of our history. The progress has been slow.

244 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:57:54am

re: #240 wrenchwench

How about a female ethnic minority? You've ruled out Haley as a former Sikh, how about Susana Martinez? She's a life-long Catholic, but she's a former Democrat.

That would be the problem in a nutshell: nobody is perfect enough. They should have fired up the test tubes months ago, now it is too late, even with massive doses of growth hormones...

245 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:58:41am

re: #244 ralphieboy

That would be the problem in a nutshell: nobody is perfect enough. They should have fired up the test tubes months ago, now it is too late, even with massive doses of growth hormones...

Ronald Reagan was a former Democrat.

246 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:58:50am

re: #224 Alexzander

Why do you say that?

Because most see it as the tokenism that it is.

247 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 9:58:58am

re: #243 Alexzander

It has been a country for old white (land owning) men for much of our history. The progress has been slow.

Yeah. And picking a wingnut like Allen West or Michele Bachmann? That would just set progress back, not punch it forward.

There's a reason the GOP is shit at minority outreach. They're the party of old white people, and their policies reflect that. Always have, always will.

248 AK-47%  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 10:00:17am

re: #247 Lidane

Yeah. And picking a wingnut like Allen West or Michele Bachmann? That would just set progress back, not punch it forward.

There's a reason the GOP is shit at minority outreach. They're the party of old white people, and their policies reflect that. Always have, always will.

Yes, and it seems the only way that women and minorities can even gain a toehold in the party is by out-wingnutting the white guys.

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 10:01:52am

re: #241 iossarian

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

I don't see any major pluses for Iraq as a result of the war. The regime is still oppressive, the torture and killings still go on, but add to these old ills that never went away the 150,000+ dead people. Hoo boy, "mission accomplished".

And all of that was utterly predictable, so the usual dumb "20/20" apologetic fails.

250 Alexzander  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 10:04:23am

re: #246 Varek Raith

Because most see it as the tokenism that it is.

If only.

251 Lidane  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 10:10:11am

re: #248 ralphieboy

Yes, and it seems the only way that women and minorities can even gain a toehold in the party is by out-wingnutting the white guys.

That makes 'em our kind of women and minorities, don'tcha know.

///

252 allegro  Mon, Jan 16, 2012 11:29:28am

re: #251 Lidane

///

I believe another term for this is "useful idiots."


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