Republican SOPA Co-Sponsors Bailing Out

Sinking ship
Politics • Views: 32,393

We’ve finally found a piece of legislation so wrong-headed and destructive of personal freedom that even Republicans are withdrawing their support.

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) — who was a co-sponsor of the�PROTECT IP Act — became the latest lawmaker Wednesday to pull his support. In the House, Rep. Ben Quayle (R-Ariz.), originally a co-sponsor of the Stop Online Piracy Act, pulled his name from the list of sponsors on Tuesday. A spokesman for Rep. Lee Terry (R-Neb.), meanwhile, told the Omaha World-Herald on Wednesday that the congressman is also unable to support SOPA as written.

The widespread Internet protest is even bringing new Washington voices into the fray. Mostly silent in the debate, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) tweeted Wednesday he doesn’t back the bills.

“I support intellectual property rights, but I oppose SOPA & PIPA,” DeMint tweeted. “They’re misguided bills that will cause more harm than good.”

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189 comments
1 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:59:34am

I'd really liked to see Reid admit this is a pile of crap.

2 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:05:32am

I wonder if The Patriot Act would ever have been passed if social networking had been as big and influential as it is today

3 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:10:09am

Obviously the bills needs to mention Jesus or the Magna Carta to get more GOP support.

4 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:12:06am

I found a comment of fail in a thread I am in on TVTropes:

I only really got interested when I saw CPG Grey's video on American elections, and found out that the region of 3, 7 million citizens is without a vote. That's just silly. Then i looked a bit more into it, and you know, I just pick up causes, and Puerto Rico fits in neatly with Norther Ireland (give it back to the Irish), Palestine (give them back lands stolen since 1967) and West Sahara (Give them back their land).

What me to start explaining?

5 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:12:08am

re: #2 SpaceJesus

I wonder if The Patriot Act would ever have been passed if social networking had been as big and influential as it is today

I think so in the aftermath. Not anymore. IMHO-The sunset clause should have required a 2/3rds super majority to renew. Let the thing die.

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:12:36am

You can support an idea without supporting an actual piece of legislation that purports to advance the cause. Just because a piece of legislation is supposed to make things better doesn't mean it will.

See: Smoot-Hawley Tariff.

7 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:12:53am

re: #4 ProLifeLiberal

Anyone know who this CPG Grey is? He sounds like a huge nut (on "my side")

8 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:14:41am
9 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:16:06am

Sorry about going off topic so rapidly.

I just had a facepalm moment.

10 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:16:08am

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

I think so in the aftermath. Not anymore. IMHO-The sunset clause should have required a 2/3rds super majority to renew. Let the thing die.

True. It would've been interesting to see

11 Big Joe  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:22:23am

re: #1 Obdicut

I'd really liked to see Reid admit this is a pile of crap.

I can think of 2.2 million reasons why he won't.

12 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:22:43am

I guess SpaceJesus isn't a daily show fan.

13 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:24:00am

Eh?

14 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:24:32am

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

I think so in the aftermath. Not anymore. IMHO-The sunset clause should have required a 2/3rds super majority to renew. Let the thing die.

Would have been easy to work around that. Could have just passed a new law with a simple majority. Congress can't actually tie its hands in that manner, even if they claim they are.

15 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:24:56am

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Eh?

Why did you downding the Daily Show?

16 erik_t  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:27:35am

Yet somehow, Franken currently supports this festering pile of poo.

Harumph.

17 Big Steve  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:28:42am

re: #16 erik_t

Yet somehow, Franken currently supports this festering pile of poo.

Harumph.

Because it is strongly backed by Hollywood.....

18 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:28:57am

I have a feeling that this thing as written will go down in flames. But this only will increase how unpopular Congress is.

19 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:29:02am

re: #16 erik_t

Yet somehow, Franken currently supports this festering pile of poo.

Harumph.

Anything to limit the rampant transmission of Stuart Smalley videos.

20 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:31:25am

re: #18 HappyWarrior

I have a feeling that this thing as written will go down in flames. But this only will increase how unpopular Congress is.

Even if the current incarnations are stopped, the media industry will be back and back quickly. Maybe a bit more quietly, maybe with slightly less outrageous language, but one way or another they'll keep trying rather than accepting that the main problem is their woefully outdated business models.

21 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:32:49am

re: #20 Simply Sarah

Even if the current incarnations are stopped, the media industry will be back and back quickly. Maybe a bit more quietly, maybe with slightly less outrageous language, but one way or another they'll keep trying rather than accepting that the main problem is their woefully outdated business models.

"THE MOTORIZED CARRIAGE IS A DANGER TO THE FARRIER AND STABLE INDUSTRY!"

22 Big Joe  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:33:42am
23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:33:43am

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"THE MOTORIZED CARRIAGE IS A DANGER TO THE FARRIER AND STABLE INDUSTRY!"

Just think how many people will lose their jobs!

24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:34:01am

re: #20 Simply Sarah

Even if the current incarnations are stopped, the media industry will be back and back quickly. Maybe a bit more quietly, maybe with slightly less outrageous language, but one way or another they'll keep trying rather than accepting that the main problem is their woefully outdated business models.

Cheaper (and from their view less risky) for them to buy legislative influence and get protective laws passed than attempting to develop and implement a new model. Inertia and monopolistic, why else would the OBN be there if not to use to protect one's current position?

25 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:34:52am

re: #23 EmmmieG

Just think how many people will lose their jobs!

Curry comb and buggy whip stocks crash!

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:35:42am

Well...they could embrace the new technology and find exciting new ways to encourage creativity and art.

No, that would require them to be artists, not businessmen, and Walt is long dead.

27 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:35:51am

re: #22 mracb

The bills have already been revised, and will continue to be revised in committee, but that doesn't mean that they'll actually be passed. There's lots of money at stake on both sides of the issue, and I guess I'm a bit cynical in thinking that Congress will benefit from lobby money thrown their way as a result of a delay (they're not exactly stupid in that respect).

Then again, as I noted in the dead thread, these bills aren't actually going to fix the problem of overseas piracy. US jurisdiction is limited in that regard and there's international law that should provide some measure of protections. The SOPA/PIPA legislation wouldn't fix those problems, and would impose a different set of problems for American-based content providers and ISPs.

28 Big Steve  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:36:47am

I am of two minds here.....clearly this is badly thought out regulation but piracy is and issue that the Internet will have to come to grips with and there is no solution that does not narrow the playing field some. Maybe this is a generational thing. Son of Big Steve (college age) thinks nothing of ripping off movies, music, software and when I perform my fatherly duty of ripping on him for it, he totally looks at me like I am from Mars.

29 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:37:59am

re: #24 oaktree

Cheaper (and from their view less risky) for them to buy legislative influence and get protective laws passed than attempting to develop and implement a new model. Inertia and monopolistic, why else would the OBN be there if not to use to protect one's current position?

Oh, of course. It's the same reason the content industry has helped make a mockery of the "limited term" protection of copyright law. They don't want to innovate. They don't want to do anything new or risky. They just want to sell the same old stuff and do it the same way they always have.

30 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:39:21am

re: #28 Big Steve

I am of two minds here...clearly this is badly thought out regulation but piracy is and issue that the Internet will have to come to grips with and there is no solution that does not narrow the playing field some. Maybe this is a generational thing. Son of Big Steve (college age) thinks nothing of ripping off movies, music, software and when I perform my fatherly duty of ripping on him for it, he totally looks at me like I am from Mars.

I think any sort of copyright protection is going to meet with more or less the same amount of resistance. A lot of people are just used to free copyrighted material and big media companies are easy villains.

31 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:39:24am

re: #28 Big Steve

I am of two minds here...clearly this is badly thought out regulation but piracy is and issue that the Internet will have to come to grips with and there is no solution that does not narrow the playing field some. Maybe this is a generational thing. Son of Big Steve (college age) thinks nothing of ripping off movies, music, software and when I perform my fatherly duty of ripping on him for it, he totally looks at me like I am from Mars.

I think that what you're describing is more of a maturity thing than a generational thing. Seen a lot of college-age adults blase' about petty theft, vandalism, etc. and then do a 180 degree turn once they have property (car, home, etc.) and end up on the receiving end.

32 Big Steve  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:40:07am

re: #31 oaktree

I think that what you're describing is more of a maturity thing than a generational thing. Seen a lot of college-age adults blase' about petty theft, vandalism, etc. and then do a 180 degree turn once they have property (car, home, etc.) and end up on the receiving end.

sure hope you are right about this....

33 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:40:24am

re: #28 Big Steve

I am of two minds here...clearly this is badly thought out regulation but piracy is and issue that the Internet will have to come to grips with and there is no solution that does not narrow the playing field some. Maybe this is a generational thing. Son of Big Steve (college age) thinks nothing of ripping off movies, music, software and when I perform my fatherly duty of ripping on him for it, he totally looks at me like I am from Mars.

There's a fine line between doing it for fun and doing it for profit: we always used to make cassette copies of our friends' latest albums...but none of us would think of running them off en masse and selling them at swap meets.

34 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:41:06am

re: #27 lawhawk

There needs to be some copyright reform, especially in the case of high technology.

35 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:41:33am

re: #32 Big Steve

sure hope you are right about this...

No guarantee. Seen a bunch that never seem to catch on.

And it's a bit less likely for them to see the point regarding intellectual property since it's more of an abstract concept and they are less likely to ever own some that will possibly be ripped off.

36 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:41:58am

re: #28 Big Steve

I am of two minds here...clearly this is badly thought out regulation but piracy is and issue that the Internet will have to come to grips with and there is no solution that does not narrow the playing field some. Maybe this is a generational thing. Son of Big Steve (college age) thinks nothing of ripping off movies, music, software and when I perform my fatherly duty of ripping on him for it, he totally looks at me like I am from Mars.

Piracy is a real issue and it's true that it cannot be ignored. The problem here is that SOPA and PIPA, at least as currently written, both basically do *nothing* to prevent or seriously reduce it. Both bills basically ignore how the internet works and impose ridiculously draconian measures that will harm innocent people and websites while not actually stopping most people from pirating stuff.

That and part of the solution needs to be industries changing the way they do business to fit into the modern world. Just the reality of the situation.

37 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:14am

re: #29 Simply Sarah

One of the most egregious moves was the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act (aka the Mickey Mouse move). It was done so as to generate significant revenues for Disney because the copyright on Mickey Mouse and certain other Disney characters was going to expire. They got a "temporary" reprieve, but count on them moving to extend it even further rather than allowing the law to stand and forcing those characters into the public domain as they should have been.

38 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:37am

re: #36 Simply Sarah

Piracy is a real issue and it's true that it cannot be ignored. The problem here is that SOPA and PIPA, at least as currently written, both basically do *nothing* to prevent or seriously reduce it. Both bills basically ignore how the internet works and impose ridiculously draconian measures that will harm innocent people and websites while not actually stopping most people from pirating stuff.

That and part of the solution needs to be industries changing the way they do business to fit into the modern world. Just the reality of the situation.

I have the impression that politics and reality in the US are currently in an oil and water relationship.

39 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:37am

About 5 years ago we visited Moscow. Zedushka went to one of the less well known tourist attractions: the Pirate Mall, where he bought some DVDs of first-run movies, and some software.

We could have been sooo busted coming through customs.

40 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:41am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I think any sort of copyright protection is going to meet with more or less the same amount of resistance. A lot of people are just used to free copyrighted material and big media companies are easy villains.

I'd support some kind of copyright protection that had realistic goals. But this bill puts WAY too much power in the hands of big media corporations, even allowing them to completely shut down websites with absolutely no due process. It's a horrible bill.

41 Big Steve  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:45am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I think any sort of copyright protection is going to meet with more or less the same amount of resistance. A lot of people are just used to free copyrighted material and big media companies are easy villains.

That is perfectly true but the unintended consequence will be (and already is) a sharp drop in content available. Music is cheap and simple to steal now and there is no money in it for the true artists so what we get is Justin Beaver.

42 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:56am

re: #38 oaktree

I have the impression that politics and reality in the US are currently in an oil and water relationship.

I believe that goes without saying.

43 Funky_Gibbon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:43:58am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, now this is funny:

Under SOPA etc wouldn't posting that link here mean that LGF would be shut down? ;)

44 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:44:47am

re: #43 Funky_Gibbon

Under SOPA etc wouldn't posting that link here mean that LGF would be shut down? ;)

Posting any link would lead to that possibility.

45 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:45:49am

re: #40 Charles

I'd support some kind of copyright protection that had realistic goals. But this bill puts WAY too much power in the hands of big media corporations, even allowing them to completely shut down websites with absolutely no due process. It's a horrible bill.

negativ's earlier comment about this is a must-read.

46 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:45:50am

re: #39 Alouette

About 5 years ago we visited Moscow. Zedushka went to one of the less well known tourist attractions: the Pirate Mall, where he bought some DVDs of first-run movies, and some software.

We could have been sooo busted coming through customs.

That was one aspect of life in Russia that really bothered me when I lived there in the early 90's: I did not care so much about the money that Arnold Scwarzenegger and Quiet Riot were losing out to pirate copiers and vendors, but it meant that local acts, no matter how low their production costs, could not begin to compete with foreign acts that could be pirated for free.

47 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:46:26am

re: #41 Big Steve

That is perfectly true but the unintended consequence will be (and already is) a sharp drop in content available. Music is cheap and simple to steal now and there is no money in it for the true artists so what we get is Justin Beaver.

Your "//" is missing.

The media companies are not interested in "true artistry". They are interested in making a buck. And the current marketing is hype and flavor of the month since that appears to sell in sufficient quantity.

48 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:47:51am

re: #37 lawhawk

One of the most egregious moves was the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act (aka the Mickey Mouse move). It was done so as to generate significant revenues for Disney because the copyright on Mickey Mouse and certain other Disney characters was going to expire. They got a "temporary" reprieve, but count on them moving to extend it even further rather than allowing the law to stand and forcing those characters into the public domain as they should have been.

I'm really hoping that when they try that again, the Supreme Court is more willing to call bullshit on it than they were for the Sonny Bono Extension. I'm not exactly holding my breath on that, though. "by securing for limited Times" my ass.

49 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:48:02am

re: #41 Big Steve

That is perfectly true but the unintended consequence will be (and already is) a sharp drop in content available. Music is cheap and simple to steal now and there is no money in it for the true artists so what we get is Justin Beaver.

There's no content available because the media conglomerates don't understand how to adapt their business to what consumers want. Rather than trying to figure it out, they are employing draconian legislation by means of clueless Congresscritters who are only looking at the dollar signs their lobbyists throw around.

50 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:50:26am

re: #49 thedopefishlives

There's no content available because the media conglomerates don't understand how to adapt their business to what consumers want. Rather than trying to figure it out, they are employing draconian legislation by means of clueless Congresscritters who are only looking at the dollar signs their lobbyists throw around.

I would substitute "uncaring and greedy" for "clueless". They apparently do have a clue on how to get bucks for their reelection campaigns and probable future gaining of additional wealth.

51 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:50:37am

re: #37 lawhawk

One of the most egregious moves was the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act (aka the Mickey Mouse move). It was done so as to generate significant revenues for Disney because the copyright on Mickey Mouse and certain other Disney characters was going to expire. They got a "temporary" reprieve, but count on them moving to extend it even further rather than allowing the law to stand and forcing those characters into the public domain as they should have been.

Is the "Happy Birthday" song in the public domain, or does Time-Warner get a buck every time somebody sings it in a public venue (like, for instance, Applebee's)

52 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:51:07am

re: #50 oaktree

I would substitute "uncaring and greedy" for "clueless". They apparently do have a clue on how to get bucks for their reelection campaigns and probable future gaining of additional wealth.

Clueless with regard to the tech and to the reality of the copyright world.

53 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:51:21am

Ironically, the motion picture industry is in Hollywood so they could get away from Thomas Edison's attempts to exercise his own patent rights.

Oh yes, this is irony indeed.

54 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:51:58am

re: #51 Alouette

Is the "Happy Birthday" song in the public domain, or does Time-Warner get a buck every time somebody sings it in a public venue (like, for instance, Applebee's)

The copyright status of "Happy Birthday" is a bit fuzzy. It's still treated as being under copyright, though.

55 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:53:47am

re: #53 EmmmieG

Ironically, the motion picture industry is in Hollywood so they could get away from Thomas Edison's attempts to exercise his own patent rights.

Oh yes, this is irony indeed.

The daily I did not know that.

56 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:54:08am

re: #54 Simply Sarah

The copyright status of "Happy Birthday" is a bit fuzzy. It's still treated as being under copyright, though.

The original composers and lyricists of the song (such as it is) are long gone, Time-Warner gobbled up the rights just like The Troll gobbled up the Ambassador Bridge.

57 erik_t  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:54:10am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

The daily I did not know that.

I'd link you to a wikipedia page, but...

58 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:54:16am

The patent laws and copyright laws were written to allow writers, artists, and inventors the right to make money off of their own efforts and ideas, and are a terrific idea. The original inventors, and perhaps their spouses, should be able to profit from their ideas.

How have we gotten from that to websites being shut down at the suggestion that a third party might have posted an illegal link, video, or song?

I'm still trying to figure out how Michael Jackson and Sony came to own the rights to Paul McCartney's songs while McCartney is still alive. No, don't explain it, I just find it wrong.

59 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:54:27am

re: #57 erik_t

I'd link you to a wikipedia page, but...

My wikipedia app on my Droid still works.

60 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:54:45am

The fact that widespread disapproval from the electorate is arising just means they are cowards. If they didn't like it, they wouldn't have sponsored it to begin with.

61 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:54:51am

re: #14 Simply Sarah

Would have been easy to work around that. Could have just passed a new law with a simple majority. Congress can't actually tie its hands in that manner, even if they claim they are.

Too true.

62 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:55:07am

re: #15 EmmmieG

Why did you downding the Daily Show?

Down ding? Where?

63 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:55:13am

re: #48 Simply Sarah

It's interesting that no one has sought to question the copyright durations on those grounds though. The history of the copyright duration is quite interesting - how it's been increased at each opportunity to amend the copyright act. Under the 1909 Act, works were protected for 28 years, and a copyright holder could renew it for a second 28 year term. That was extended to 47 years, and then 67 years in the 1976 Act (condensed version). That meant that a copyright issued would have a duration of up to 95 years (the 28 years plus 67 year renewal). For copyright after 1/1/1978, different rules are in effect: A copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

64 chandsolo  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:55:33am

re: #57 erik_t

Just hit 'esc' as the page loads and you are good to go!

65 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:56:09am

re: #52 thedopefishlives

Clueless with regard to the tech and to the reality of the copyright world.

Which would apply to a lot of people. Though that those passing legislation to control and regulate it having a clue about how it works would be a nice thing to have.

But we know that this will not be approached from the idea of getting expert help in reaching an understanding of the issue.

Maybe they should start by getting an understanding of digital watches?
;)

66 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:56:12am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

The daily I did not know that.

Thomas Edison invented the motion picture camera and projector, and demanded a cut of all creative products made using his invention. Kind of like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs insisting on a percent of everyone's online revenue.

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:56:43am

re: #62 SpaceJesus

Down ding? Where?

#8?

Inquiring minds want to know what you could possibly have against the Daily Show.

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:56:53am

re: #59 HappyWarrior

My wikipedia app on my Droid still works.

The script blocking app on my browser allows full access there.

69 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:57:08am

re: #63 lawhawk

We have a new breed of aristocracy in America. My grampa wrote a poem 75 years ago so that entitles me to a reduced tax rate and a life of leisure./

70 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:58:06am

re: #58 EmmmieG

The patent laws and copyright laws were written to allow writers, artists, and inventors the right to make money off of their own efforts and ideas, and are a terrific idea. The original inventors, and perhaps their spouses, should be able to profit from their ideas.

How have we gotten from that to websites being shut down at the suggestion that a third party might have posted an illegal link, video, or song?

I'm still trying to figure out how Michael Jackson and Sony came to own the rights to Paul McCartney's songs while McCartney is still alive. No, don't explain it, I just find it wrong.

Because McCartney profited by selling the rights to the songs. Which are transferable.

71 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:58:22am

re: #58 EmmmieG

The patent laws and copyright laws were written to allow writers, artists, and inventors the right to make money off of their own efforts and ideas, and are a terrific idea. The original inventors, and perhaps their spouses, should be able to profit from their ideas.

How have we gotten from that to websites being shut down at the suggestion that a third party might have posted an illegal link, video, or song?

I'm still trying to figure out how Michael Jackson and Sony came to own the rights to Paul McCartney's songs while McCartney is still alive. No, don't explain it, I just find it wrong.

Well, the original idea behind copyright law was to offer limited (In scope and term) protections to creators of works so as to encourage production of new works, since the protections would enable the creator to, at least for a time, profit and control her work without others legally being able to take it and use it as if it were there own.

Over time, however, the length of copyright has been extended to such extreme lengths that it no longer really serves this purpose. It just allows people and companies to sit on long created works and profit without making anything new, while at the same time denying the general public the value of free access to those works.

72 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:58:24am

re: #66 Alouette

Thomas Edison invented the motion picture camera and projector, and demanded a cut of all creative products made using his invention. Kind of like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs insisting on a percent of everyone's online revenue.

Sheesh adds a lot of credence to the stories I hear about Edison being a Grade A jerk.

73 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:58:26am

re: #51 Alouette

It probably should be in the public domain, but for all intents and purposes it is still treated as being under copyright.

74 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:58:41am

re: #65 oaktree

Which would apply to a lot of people. Though that those passing legislation to control and regulate it having a clue about how it works would be a nice thing to have.

But we know that this will not be approached from the idea of getting expert help in reaching an understanding of the issue.

Maybe they should start by getting an understanding of digital watches?
;)

See, now there's an idea that I could get behind. It's standard practice in my industry that whenever we launch a project, we need to have input from the people who are actually going to use the damn thing. Why can't Congresscritters approach legislation the same way? Treat it like a trial; proponents of the bill bring their experts, opponents bring theirs, and hash it out in the court of public opinion.

Oh, wait, that would mean Americans would have actual input into the legislative process, and we can't have that.

75 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:59:08am

Oh onion

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

76 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:59:28am

re: #69 Amory Blaine

We have a new breed of aristocracy in America. My grampa wrote a poem 75 years ago so that entitles me to a reduced tax rate and a life of leisure./

Did you ever look up these people in Hollywood? Damn near every one of them has some family legacy in entertainment. The nepotism is just as rampant as it is in all other big business.

77 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:59:49am

re: #54 Simply Sarah

The music focus is kinda beside the point. Piracy is software, movies, academic works etc. Having "Happy Birthday" in the discussion as some salient example is terribly misleading. Frankly it plays into the hands of those who have zero respect for online or intellectual property. It's a triumph for entities like Anonymous.

What about Cad programs? Adobe products like Photoshop? Win7? Things that take epic efforts to create.

78 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 10:59:55am

Apparently, CNN is covering SOPA and PIPA in a positive manner.

Reason #545 why I will not be getting TV Service when I graduate. I only watch Mythbusters and Doctor Who not worth $30-50+ a month.

79 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:00:04am

re: #72 HappyWarrior

Sheesh adds a lot of credence to the stories I hear about Edison being a Grade A jerk.

Edison and his BFF Henry Ford teamed up to destroy their competitors Westinghouse and Nikola Tesla.

80 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:00:55am

re: #62 SpaceJesus

Down ding? Where?

Kragar's #8. I'm assuming it was an errant click/touchscreen tap? Can still be fixed, though.

81 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:00:57am

re: #77 Rightwingconspirator

The music focus is kinda beside the point. Piracy is software, movies, academic works etc. Having "Happy Birthday" in the discussion as some salient example is terribly misleading. Frankly it plays into the hands of those who have zero respect for online or intellectual property. It's a triumph for entities like Anonymous.

What about Cad programs? Adobe products like Photoshop? Win7? Things that take epic efforts to create.

What about them? Piracy is bad, and no one is arguing otherwise. What we are arguing is that there is copyright protection, and there is over-the-top bullshit like SOPA.

82 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:01:34am

re: #70 oaktree

Because McCartney profited by selling the rights to the songs. Which are transferable.

That doesn't change the fact that Vance can't dance.

(someone will get that)

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:01:36am

re: #74 thedopefishlives

See, now there's an idea that I could get behind. It's standard practice in my industry that whenever we launch a project, we need to have input from the people who are actually going to use the damn thing. Why can't Congresscritters approach legislation the same way? Treat it like a trial; proponents of the bill bring their experts, opponents bring theirs, and hash it out in the court of public opinion.

Oh, wait, that would mean Americans would have actual input into the legislative process, and we can't have that.

Or simply create a limited pilot program and try it out over a few selected ISPs, and perhaps include those the MPAA and RIAA use.

See how it works out, and then tweak from there.

84 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:02:18am

re: #63 lawhawk

It's interesting that no one has sought to question the copyright durations on those grounds though. The history of the copyright duration is quite interesting - how it's been increased at each opportunity to amend the copyright act. Under the 1909 Act, works were protected for 28 years, and a copyright holder could renew it for a second 28 year term. That was extended to 47 years, and then 67 years in the 1976 Act (condensed version). That meant that a copyright issued would have a duration of up to 95 years (the 28 years plus 67 year renewal). For copyright after 1/1/1978, different rules are in effect: A copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

Well, in Eldred v. Ashcroft the dissents essentially did so, at least in part, because they saw the law as effectively working towards perpetual copyright. The majority just didn't buy it.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:02:19am

re: #78 ProLifeLiberal

Apparently, CNN is covering SOPA and PIPA in a positive manner.

Reason #545 why I will not be getting TV Service when I graduate. I only watch Mythbusters and Doctor Who not worth $30-50+ a month.

$30-50 if you're lucky. It's usually more than that. And no, it's not worth it. Fuck TV.

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:02:31am

Did you know that Rudyard Kipling "co-wrote" with his future brother-in-law (who made a living doing exactly this) to protect his stories. In America at the time, only Americans had copyright protection, so the b-i-l made a living "co-writing" with European authors.

87 nines09  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:02:51am

Nice attitude. They would be kings if we just let them. Cretin.

88 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:03:06am

re: #33 ralphieboy

There's a fine line between doing it for fun and doing it for profit: we always used to make cassette copies of our friends' latest albums...but none of us would think of running them off en masse and selling them at swap meets.

This.

There's an excellent post on GigaOM, hang on... here.

I buy a paper book. I give it to my mate. He reads it. He gives it back.
Am I a pirate?

I buy an e-book. I can't give it to my mate. He can't read it.
Didn't I just lose one of my consumer rights?

I live in Denmark. If I'm lucky a channel might pick up Person of Interest, or Homeland, or any one of the shows that are airing now. IF I'm lucky.
And, if I'm lucky, it will be only a couple of years in, because they need to know that there's an audience for it.

I live on the internet. Sell me a version at a cheap price - DRM free: I have a phone, a tablet, a computer, a TV that has a USB port in it. I'm not your target audience for advertising. I am your target audience for DVD sales.

Sure - some people will put that online. But, as the micro-payment/Free2Play industry knows - not everyone will buy, but the ones who DO buy, will spend more money than the old model put together.

The Dark Knight was one of the highest pirated movie of that year. That didn't stop it making an obscene amount of money.
I acquired an RPG. 5 pages in, I bought an official PDF. Had I not had the acquisition, I wouldn't have heard of it. I now buy every supplement produced.

89 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:03:10am

re: #74 thedopefishlives

The bill already got input - from the RIAA and other content creators, which is why it resulted in the bill that has slowly been whittled down by opponents to the scheme they set out.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:03:52am

re: #31 oaktree

I think that what you're describing is more of a maturity thing than a generational thing. Seen a lot of college-age adults blase' about petty theft, vandalism, etc. and then do a 180 degree turn once they have property (car, home, etc.) and end up on the receiving end.

I recall friends who thought nothing of using the same ticket to get ten people into Six Flags. I don't think they'd do that now--well, except for a couple, who I expect will get a call from the IRS one of these days.

91 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:04:18am

re: #77 Rightwingconspirator

If a 12th grade student "pirates" AutoCAD so he can learn how to use it, he gets a pass from me. If a surveying outfit pirates AutoCAD to make money, punish away.

92 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:04:21am

re: #89 lawhawk

The bill already got input - from the RIAA and other content creators, which is why it resulted in the bill that has slowly been whittled down by opponents to the scheme they set out.

I know. I think the problem is that Congress thinks the RIAA/MPAA et al. are "technical experts". They're not, not by a long shot. The bill should have input from the people who would actually be implementing it, like ISP's and dynamic content sites.

93 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:05:23am

re: #81 thedopefishlives

Well I have seen a few posts that in fact support piracy of music. "It's just sharing". BS. If I share my money with a friend I have less money. it's not like I'm allowed to copy dollar bills to "share". Like many do with music without the slightest hesitation.

SOPA is a misguided effort to protect rights. A better model is needed. Too many of the anti SOPA arguments are really for reducing ownership rights overall, which I oppose.

94 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:06:09am

re: #67 EmmmieG

#8?

Inquiring minds want to know what you could possibly have against the Daily Show.

Ah. Inadvertant down ding. It happens when I'm on my tablet. I have to use my finger to scroll down pages, which means that sometimes select things I don't mean to when I'm going fast down the page

95 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:06:28am

re: #91 Amory Blaine

If a 12th grade student "pirates" AutoCAD so he can learn how to use it, he gets a pass from me. If a surveying outfit pirates AutoCAD to make money, punish away.

AutoDesk gives away free software to students. We have a copy. We had to give them my son's name and school.

It does not give away free software to homeschoolers, which is wrong.

By that rule, a 15 year old Edison, Faraday, or Franklin would be denied the software.

96 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:06:30am

re: #91 Amory Blaine

If a 12th grade student "pirates" AutoCAD so he can learn how to use it, he gets a pass from me. If a surveying outfit pirates AutoCAD to make money, punish away.

AutoCAD, MathCAD, Adobe, all put out "student" versions of their software that are very affordable, but some advanced features are turned off.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:06:35am

re: #39 Alouette

About 5 years ago we visited Moscow. Zedushka went to one of the less well known tourist attractions: the Pirate Mall, where he bought some DVDs of first-run movies, and some software.

We could have been sooo busted coming through customs.

The other day, I'm waiting for the bus. There's a young man hanging at the bus stop. He ignores me. Another twenty-something guy comes along, and he starts his spiel: "Hey, excuse me, dude, you want some movies? I got all the latest movies, real cheap."

I was tempted to turn to him, and say in my schoomarmiest voice, "Young man, you didn't ask me I wanted any movies. Were you STEREOTYPING me, by any chance?"

98 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:06:46am

re: #94 SpaceJesus

Ah. Inadvertant down ding. It happens when I'm on my tablet. I have to use my finger to scroll down pages, which means that sometimes select things I don't mean to when I'm going fast down the page

Oh glory. Tablets.

I don't even try to check email on ours.

99 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:07:31am

re: #63 lawhawk

This was posted on Jan 1 from Duke University:

[Link: www.law.duke.edu...]

"...if we had the laws that were in effect until 1978, thousands of works from 1955 would be entering the public domain. They range from Isaac Asimov’s The End of Eternity and Rudolf Flesch’s Why Johnny Can’t Read: And What You Can Do About It, to the iconic movie Rebel Without a Cause, The Seven Year Itch featuring Marilyn Monroe, and Hitchcock’s To Catch A Thief"

100 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:08:03am

re: #96 Alouette

Yeah I know. They are incredibly gimped and still cost over 300 dollars. I know I had it when I was in college.

101 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:08:23am

re: #91 Amory Blaine

If a 12th grade student "pirates" AutoCAD so he can learn how to use it, he gets a pass from me. If a surveying outfit pirates AutoCAD to make money, punish away.

You should see what they had to do to protect the cad software that the jewelry mfg biz uses. Schools should buy Autocad for kids to learn on. Maybe at 12, maybe a bit later. That's why Adobe has awesome discounts for students. They deserve that money. They earned it by any measure.

102 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:08:25am

re: #94 SpaceJesus

Ah. Inadvertant down ding. It happens when I'm on my tablet. I have to use my finger to scroll down pages, which means that sometimes select things I don't mean to when I'm going fast down the page

I've seen you ding stuff down that I would have thought you would ding up. I just figured you were mysterious and unknowable.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:08:34am

re: #47 oaktree

Your "//" is missing.

The media companies are not interested in "true artistry". They are interested in making a buck. And the current marketing is hype and flavor of the month since that appears to sell in sufficient quantity.

That's true, on the other hand, I'm still curious about how artists are supposed to live, let alone have the money to produce, if content can't be protected at all.

104 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:09:33am

re: #84 Simply Sarah

I forgot about that case. The Court majority (Ginsburg offered the majority opinion with Rehnquist, O’Connor, Scalia, Kennedy, Souter, and Thomas joining and only Breyer dissenting) found that the Court's ability for redress was limited because the Congress has the power to limit the duration of copyright and can adjust the duration as it sees fit. At the time of the case, they hadn't seen fit to find that the duration had gone too long (moving towards perpetuity rather than a limited duration). I think that was correct; it is within Congressional power to set the duration and the Court was restricted by the Constitution from curbing the power in that instance. You can also fault how the petitioners found the life plus 70 was okay, but challenged other aspects of the amended statutes under the CTEA.

If we see still more extensions, then the issue should get revisited and the limited duration aspect may get more scrutiny.

105 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:09:54am

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course, no News Channel will cover this properly, as they are all owned by an entertainment company.

I have a radical proposal: Turn PBS into an American Version of the BBC. Even buy rights to play Doctor Who.

106 Jerk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:11:55am

SOPA/PIPA reminds me of Frank Zappa battling censorship in the late 80s. He said that the demands of the PMRC was "the equivalent of treating dandruff by decapitation." The same can be said about these laws.

107 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:12:02am

re: #99 harlequinade

And the movie studios are minting coin by releasing their catalogs to DVD/Blu Ray, and can get more protection by adding new featurettes to those releases.

It also helps explain why Disney periodically re-releases its catalog (including the new and remastered version).

108 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:15:03am

re: #98 EmmmieG

Oh glory. Tablets.

I don't even try to check email on ours.

Mine is a Droid,, it really doesn't like lgf..

109 Big Joe  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:15:11am

Netflix streaming is a good example of MPAA short-sightedness. There are no recent good movies to watch. Their content is limited to TV series, old or crappy movies, and Chinese films.

110 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:15:36am

re: #105 ProLifeLiberal

That would require us to make investments into arts.

PBS is socialism or something now./

111 chandsolo  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:15:55am

re: #107 lawhawk

That explains the Disney 3D kick they are on.

112 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:16:12am

re: #104 lawhawk

I forgot about that case. The Court majority (Ginsburg offered the majority opinion with Rehnquist, O’Connor, Scalia, Kennedy, Souter, and Thomas joining and only Breyer dissenting) found that the Court's ability for redress was limited because the Congress has the power to limit the duration of copyright and can adjust the duration as it sees fit. At the time of the case, they hadn't seen fit to find that the duration had gone too long (moving towards perpetuity rather than a limited duration). I think that was correct; it is within Congressional power to set the duration and the Court was restricted by the Constitution from curbing the power in that instance. You can also fault how the petitioners found the life plus 70 was okay, but challenged other aspects of the amended statutes under the CTEA.

If we see still more extensions, then the issue should get revisited and the limited duration aspect may get more scrutiny.

Understood that it wasn't exactly the perfect case, but I agree that any further extensions needs to be reviewed again and, in such a case, really should be struck down if we're to take limited term copyright to actually mean that.

113 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:16:23am

re: #109 mracb

On the plus side, they have every episode of "Red Dwarf".

114 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:16:36am

re: #107 lawhawk

Yup. As John Rogers said on Twitter, this morning, "Any Hollywood writer who thinks he's losing more money to piracy than to Hollywood studio accounting is a child."

115 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:16:46am

re: #109 mracb

Netflix streaming is a good example of MPAA short-sightednes. There are no recent good movies to watch. Their content is limited to TV series, old or crappy movies, and Chinese films.

Who wants to buy a copy of every movie and store it in their house?

Okay, a few people. The itunes version is that you pay a little for a download. The problem with that is the unholy amount of time it takes for the download.

Pay-per-streaming is good, but it needs to have some protection for interrupted viewing.

116 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:17:14am

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

That's true, on the other hand, I'm still curious about how artists are supposed to live, let alone have the money to produce, if content can't be protected at all.

The current model is broken. But part of this is that SOPA is not really protecting the artists as much as it is protecting the media companies that sit in the middle between the artists and the consumers.

There should be a way to protect content, but using the ISPs to police content without any sort of due process is probably unworkable. And it still doesn't address the inability to protect content outside of the US. This legislation just has not been throught through enough and is not going to have the desired effect. In this case no legislation is better than bad legislation.

So you get left with the issue of content protection. Which has to be covered somehow, or else you need a different compensation model.

117 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:17:41am

re: #110 Amory Blaine

Again, proper use of culture war tactics will turn things around.

For example, fundamentalist Muslims and Fundamentalist Christians share tactics against Evolution and Gay Rights.

Time for the Fundatmentalist Christians to start being called out on it.

And by calling out, and mean calling them terrorists/ terrorist sympathizers/ aides of terror.

118 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:17:51am

re: #108 SpaceJesus

My phone does not play nice here. There is a click box on the right side of this site that trespasses into the main page and when I click on a link or something it goes to the advertizements super large box. Very irritating.

119 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:18:46am

re: #115 EmmmieG

Who wants to buy a copy of every movie and store it in their house?

Okay, a few people. The itunes version is that you pay a little for a download. The problem with that is the unholy amount of time it takes for the download.

Pay-per-streaming is good, but it needs to have some protection for interrupted viewing.

That's what "they" bank on. You buy a license for a presentation.
Suppose you love the movie so much you want to watch it again, take it to your mates and watch it, give it to your kids in years to come so they can watch it.

Sure, things take up space, but if I paid for it, I want to own it - OR pay-per-stream should be pennies and not pounds

120 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:19:21am

re: #111 chan

That explains the Disney 3D kick they are on.

All the movie studios are on a 3D kick. This is the only way to get people into the theaters, because why go out when you can watch at home on a wide-screen TV? The home 3D HDTV is still way behind the movie theater 3D experience.

The last time I went to a movie was to watch "Avatar" in iMax.

121 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:20:04am

re: #108 SpaceJesus

Mine is a Droid,, it really doesn't like lgf..

Neither does mine. Vizio w/Droid. Keeps loading Amazon's web page when I tap on the comments button. I have to expand the page out or move the right side to the center of the screen so it doesn't happen. And I use a stylus as I don't like the smudges I get when I use my fingers.

122 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:21:02am

re: #120 Alouette

All the movie studios are on a 3D kick. This is the only way to get people into the theaters, because why go out when you can watch at home on a wide-screen TV? The home 3D HDTV is still way behind the movie theater 3D experience.

The last time I went to a movie was to watch "Avatar" in iMax.

I still enjoy going to see a good movie. Emphasis is on GOOD. It's hard to replace the experience of a good movie theater with a movie that is worth watching, even though it costs. The problem is, they aren't making enough movies that are good enough to get people out of their houses for.

123 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:21:09am

re: #119 harlequinade

I just got all set up with HD, high speed DSL, and a Blu ray player that has an internet port for several services like Netfix and Hulu. We pay the service a monthly for streaming access. seems a good deal, I can watch and try, then go buy as I please. Flawless. I love it.

124 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:21:16am

re: #119 harlequinade

That's what "they" bank on. You buy a license for a presentation.
Suppose you love the movie so much you want to watch it again, take it to your mates and watch it, give it to your kids in years to come so they can watch it.

Sure, things take up space, but if I paid for it, I want to own it - OR pay-per-stream should be pennies and not pounds

I don't want to own and store every movie I want to watch.

The netflix paradigm actually works quite well for us--I wouldn't mind paying more for more streaming and ditching the DVD version.

125 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:22:07am

re: #122 thedopefishlives

I still enjoy going to see a good movie. Emphasis is on GOOD. It's hard to replace the experience of a good movie theater with a movie that is worth watching, even though it costs. The problem is, they aren't making enough movies that are good enough to get people out of their houses for.

"Avatar" was actually a sucky movie, apart from the 3D eye candy.

126 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:22:40am

re: #124 EmmmieG

I don't want to own and store every movie I want to watch.

The netflix paradigm actually works quite well for us--I wouldn't mind paying more for more streaming and ditching the DVD version.

Except that the streaming quality sucks compared to Blu-Ray.

127 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:22:42am

re: #124 EmmmieG

I don't want to own and store every movie I want to watch.

The netflix paradigm actually works quite well for us--I wouldn't mind paying more for more streaming and ditching the DVD version.

See, I don't mind storage. Disk space is cheap, and you can fit a lot of movies on a couple of terabytes. I would pay good money for movies that I can put on my computer and watch on any device in my house - PC, Xbox, download to a tablet, stream to my phone.

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:23:57am

re: #126 Alouette

Except that the streaming quality sucks compared to Blu-Ray.

Don't own a TV. Moot issue for me.

129 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:24:04am

re: #125 Alouette

"Avatar" was actually a sucky movie, apart from the 3D eye candy.

Avatar? You mean "Dancing with Smurfs"? I liked the visual experience, but the story was so much retread.

130 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:24:07am

re: #125 Alouette

"Avatar" was actually a sucky movie, apart from the 3D eye candy.

Oh, I agree. I went to that one solely to see the state of the art in CGI, because I am a geek. If it wasn't for that, I absolutely would not have gone to see it. I mean more family movies like Sherlock Holmes, or Chronicles of Narnia (yes, even the butchered not-by-the-book versions).

131 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:25:56am

re: #123 Rightwingconspirator

re: #124 EmmmieG

Oh you lucky American's with your "Netflicks" :)

The closest I get is LoveFilm, in the UK, which was DVD based (and awesome. I saw so many obscure movies and, true, didn't mind the rental and send back thing) or the cinema. I can't stand the idea of pirating movies.

Also in the UK HMV does DVD sales "3 for 12 pounds" Whenever I visit home I come back with more DVD's than I know what to do with.

132 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:27:04am

re: #127 thedopefishlives

And - there. A solution. Let us pay for stuff in a way that we want to use it!

133 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:27:17am

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Neither does mine. Vizio w/Droid. Keeps loading Amazon's web page when I tap on the comments button. I have to expand the page out or move the right side to the center of the screen so it doesn't happen. And I use a stylus as I don't like the smudges I get when I use my fingers.

Same here

134 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:28:38am

re: #132 harlequinade

And - there. A solution. Let us pay for stuff in a way that we want to use it!

You are to rent your movies in actual film, then use an old projector to show them on a sheet you have pinned to your living room wall.

Get it right.

135 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:28:46am

re: #128 EmmmieG

Don't own a TV. Moot issue for me.

Did not own a TV while my kids were growing up. We didn't FORBID them from watching TV at a friend's or at Grandma's, but there was no TV at home.

However, we owned computers since the early '80's.

136 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:29:17am

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Neither does mine. Vizio w/Droid. Keeps loading Amazon's web page when I tap on the comments button. I have to expand the page out or move the right side to the center of the screen so it doesn't happen. And I use a stylus as I don't like the smudges I get when I use my fingers.

Smudges? Smudges?

Let a 6 year-old use yours for a while then we'll talk.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:29:38am

re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Avatar? You mean "Dancing with Smurfs"? I liked the visual experience, but the story was so much retread.

Watched that at my grandparents-in-law's house. At some point I turned to my SIL, and said, "These folks are basically Blue Sioux, right?"

"Yep."

"So I guess that makes the humans the U.S. Cavalry?"

"Yep."

"But I get the impression that somehow the scriptwriter is going to prevent them getting their blue asses kicked and their way of life destroyed?"

"Sure looks like it. Want some ice cream?"

Awful, awful movie. Pretty, but awful.

138 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:29:42am

re: #134 EmmmieG

LESS-THAN+3. I am itching to get my hands on a projector with a USB plug so I can do the modern version of that!

139 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:30:17am

The music industry is directly responsible for the explosion of Napster. They were colluding together to keep the costs of music CDs high. The crimes they were involved in hurt their own industry.

140 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:30:18am

re: #118 Amory Blaine

My phone does not play nice here. There is a click box on the right side of this site that trespasses into the main page and when I click on a link or something it goes to the advertizements super large box. Very irritating.

Yeah I get taken to amazon about half the time

141 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:31:19am

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

Watched that at my grandparents-in-law's house. At some point I turned to my SIL, and said, "These folks are basically Blue Sioux, right?"

"Yep."

"So I guess that makes the humans the U.S. Cavalry?"

"Yep."

"But I get the impression that somehow the scriptwriter is going to prevent them getting their blue asses kicked and their way of life destroyed?"

"Sure looks like it. Want some ice cream?"

Awful, awful movie. Pretty, but awful.

And the hot macho girl died. Why does the hot macho girl always die? Is she a threat to the men? Is it homophobia?

142 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:33:11am

re: #136 EmmmieG

Smudges? Smudges?

Let a 6 year-old use yours for a while then we'll talk.

Think I will pass on that. Thankyouverymuch.

143 sagehen  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:33:40am

re: #28 Big Steve

I am of two minds here...clearly this is badly thought out regulation but piracy is and issue that the Internet will have to come to grips with and there is no solution that does not narrow the playing field some. Maybe this is a generational thing. Son of Big Steve (college age) thinks nothing of ripping off movies, music, software and when I perform my fatherly duty of ripping on him for it, he totally looks at me like I am from Mars.

And yet millions upon millions of people happily pay the buck a song to download legally, and have been doing so happily ever since it became easy to find a place to buy it from. People pay to download TV programs they can watch for free on broadcast or cable or HULU. Hundreds of thousands of people paid $5 to legally download Louis CK's new "direct to website" special, even though anybody who wants to go to the effort could find a free way to rip it.

MPAA tried to prevent the VCR at one time ("it will ruin the studios! we won't be able to sell tickets anymore!!") and then the DVD; now it's the bulk of their revenue.

Fuck what some 70-year-old lobbyists employed by 80-year-old studio heads claim to be able to predict about what emerging technology will do to their business.

144 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:33:44am

re: #141 Alouette

Except Sigourney Weaver, who kicked ass, and Tank Girl, but of course, and Gina Gershwin in Bound, but that was an inversion.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:34:26am

re: #141 Alouette

And the hot macho girl died. Why does the hot macho girl always die? Is she a threat to the men? Is it homophobia?

Yes, and yes. Michelle Rodriguez has actually said in interviews that her character always dies, and she's ok with that, because she prefers to play these roles, even if they get killed off. Soldiers, badasses, women with attitude.

146 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:34:46am

re: #139 Amory Blaine

The music industry is directly responsible for the explosion of Napster. They were colluding together to keep the costs of music CDs high. The crimes they were involved in hurt their own industry.

And it's largely the same deal in the movie industry, the game industry, the publishers, etc, etc. Anything that can be digitized and still enjoyed is being charged full-price, which makes absolutely no sense. I've floated the idea to my mother before of getting her a Kindle, as we're a family of avid readers. And her response was along the same lines I've heard from a lot of readers: "Why buy a digital copy of a book for the same cost as a physical copy? If I wanted to reread old favorites, I'd be buying my library of books all over again, even the ones I paid a few cents for in the bargain bin."

147 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:35:06am

re: #141 Alouette

And the hot macho girl died. Why does the hot macho girl always die? Is she a threat to the men? Is it homophobia?

Vasquez Always Dies

148 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:35:16am

re: #136 EmmmieG

MMm. Chocolate and boogers. Makes a fine anti-glare sheen on my phone. :p

149 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:35:30am

re: #120 Alouette

Lets not forget the theater offers the only really big screen and far better sound than we can get away with in crowded neighborhoods or apartments. Oh and 4k content and projectors are now deploying nationally. I saw Lady With The Dragon Tattoo in a new theater. 4k and the latest sound. Wow. Well worth going out for 2d.
In 4k.

150 sagehen  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:35:34am

re: #37 lawhawk

One of the most egregious moves was the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act (aka the Mickey Mouse move). It was done so as to generate significant revenues for Disney because the copyright on Mickey Mouse and certain other Disney characters was going to expire. They got a "temporary" reprieve, but count on them moving to extend it even further rather than allowing the law to stand and forcing those characters into the public domain as they should have been.

Public domain? I don't think so.

Trademarks are forever.

151 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:36:23am

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and yes. Michelle Rodriguez has actually said in interviews that her character always dies, and she's ok with that, because she prefers to play these roles, even if they get killed off. Soldiers, badasses, women with attitude.

Survived in Battle: Los Angeles, which I thought was cool.

152 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:40:17am

BTW do we own our faces? If I was a famous dead actor, and a commercial producer recreated me digitally for their Coca Cola Commercial or movie are they in their rights or not?

153 sagehen  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:40:21am

re: #53 EmmmieG

Ironically, the motion picture industry is in Hollywood so they could get away from Thomas Edison's attempts to exercise his own patent rights.

Oh yes, this is irony indeed.

Also because there's a lot of sunlight; they almost set up in Arizona, but it was raining that day so they stayed on the train for another few hundred miles.

154 andres  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:40:21am

re: #41 Big Steve

That is perfectly true but the unintended consequence will be (and already is) a sharp drop in content available. Music is cheap and simple to steal now and there is no money in it for the true artists so what we get is Justin Beaver.

Problem is, this is thanks to the RIAA, not piracy. Some years ago, someone in PC Mag (probably Dvorak) where the real cost of a CD from the RIAA is... $2.50. That includes: paying the full amount to the artist, paying all the musicians, paying the songwriter, all other related costs, with a decent earning to the Recording Company. Why a 10 song CD costs almost $20 is beyond understanding.

(This is not the one I'm looking for, but it mentions the cost in 2002.)

155 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:40:22am

re: #141 Alouette

And the hot macho girl died. Why does the hot macho girl always die? Is she a threat to the men? Is it homophobia?

That was the biggest hole in an already lame plot: she abandons her combat post without orders and is not thrown in the brig for it...

156 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:40:47am

I just had to do a little research into the Polisario Front.

I am horrified.

157 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:42:07am

re: #154 andres

Trent Reznor had something to say about that

158 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:43:31am

re: #154 andres

It's trust busting time

159 erik_t  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:44:01am

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

BTW do we own our faces? If I was a famous dead actor, and a commercial producer recreated me digitally for their Coca Cola Commercial or movie are they in their rights or not?

[Video]

It'll be interesting to find out. College football players are likely to force the issue for us. They appear to be slightly miffed that video game manufacturers get to profit off of their likenesses.

160 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:44:09am

re: #154 andres

Problem is, this is thanks to the RIAA, not piracy. Some years ago, someone in PC Mag (probably Dvorak) where the real cost of a CD from the RIAA is... $2.50. That includes: paying the full amount to the artist, paying all the musicians, paying the songwriter, all other related costs, with a decent earning to the Recording Company. Why a 10 song CD costs almost $20 is beyond understanding.

(This is not the one I'm looking for, but it mentions the cost in 2002.)

Because people got used to the idea of $20 CDs in the early days, when it actually was more expensive to mass-produce them and players for them were likely expensive. As the price of players and mass-production came down, the studios kept the price for the product the same.

Why? Simple: Because their customers had gotten used to the myth that it cost that much to produce them and didn't think otherwise. Even when you can go down to the supermarket and buy a pack of 20 CD-RWs for $5, we're still told that a music CD can't be marketed for less than $20, more for "special editions."

161 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:44:51am

It's always interesting for me to see how artists feel about people downloading their work.

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:46:08am

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

BTW do we own our faces? If I was a famous dead actor, and a commercial producer recreated me digitally for their Coca Cola Commercial or movie are they in their rights or not?

[Video]

I find it ghoulish.

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:46:30am

re: #160 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What about the competition? Shouldn't it have brought the price down?

164 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:47:14am

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

BTW do we own our faces? If I was a famous dead actor, and a commercial producer recreated me digitally for their Coca Cola Commercial or movie are they in their rights or not?

[Video]

What if they just hired someone who looked a lot like you? That person certainly owns their face.

165 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:47:20am

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

BTW do we own our faces? If I was a famous dead actor, and a commercial producer recreated me digitally for their Coca Cola Commercial or movie are they in their rights or not?

[Video]

Not if you've got a good agent:

Agent to the Stars (Dead Ones)

166 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:48:29am

re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:49:16am

re: #166 Amory Blaine

GHOULISH, I SAY!!!

168 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:49:39am

re: #164 EmmmieG

Good point, albeit a different premise.

169 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:50:04am

re: #163 Sergey Romanov

What about the competition? Shouldn't it have brought the price down?

When it's only a few big-name producers, it's just easier to collude than it is to compete. High prices not only mean obscene profit for them, but it also means it's harder for smaller producers and garage bands to be taken seriously, since they can't afford to get retail stores to carry their music and people aren't going to pay $20 for a CD from some band that exists solely in somebody's basement. Same with radio, all the major music stations are owned by conglomerates who get paid by the music producers to heavily play "What's Hot" (i.e. what they're trying to sell) and keep the riff-raff off the air.

170 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:51:10am

Skyrim 2012

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:53:09am

re: #169 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Then it's an obligation to rip those fuckers off.

172 albusteve  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:53:32am

I blame the Grateful Dead....they pioneered taping of their gigs by anybody

173 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:54:30am

re: #170 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I totally have to try that game.

174 harlequinade  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:54:42am

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

I remember when the London riots went off, and I was very worried about friends and families living there. Then the "response" was given by the wealthy right wing, and I looked into the situations of the people in the worse affected areas.

The conclusion I came to was "I am so angry, I could start a riot"

175 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:55:34am

The Government I think really needs to start Anti-Trust Trials of the MPAA and RIAA.

176 recusancy  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:56:59am
177 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:58:19am

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

Then it's an obligation to rip those fuckers off.

I won't say that I promote piracy, simply that I understand it. I consider the Internet the "Great Equalizer," which is slowly eroding the decades-long iron grip that groups like the MPAA, RIAA, game producers, book publishers, etc have had on the distribution of their products. The music industry has started to get onboard somewhat with things like iTunes or the various third-party pay-per-song services, where even an album only costs $10 instead of $20+.

178 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 11:59:52am

re: #177 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Kind of like how the printing press released the masses from the iron grip of the church.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 12:05:13pm

re: #177 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The only gripe I might have with piracy ever is when pirates try to sell the pirated stuff. And with copyright infringement in general - is when someone tries to appropriate someone's work without attribution. Those are no-nos. Sites like The Pirate Bay? Green light.

180 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 12:05:21pm

re: #178 Amory Blaine

Kind of like how the printing press released the masses from the iron grip of the church.

Indeed. One of the threads of history is the free exchange of information to the largest audience possible, with items like Gutenberg's printing press being the major stepping stones along the way. The Internet, wireless home networks, and cloud computing are the stepping stones that will make everything from CDs to printed books obsolete. Not that I'll stop buying printed books, but if I can carry a library in an item the size of a magazine, why keep a library at home?

181 sagehen  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 12:06:37pm

re: #122 thedopefishlives

I still enjoy going to see a good movie. Emphasis is on GOOD. It's hard to replace the experience of a good movie theater with a movie that is worth watching, even though it costs. The problem is, they aren't making enough movies that are good enough to get people out of their houses for.

I left the house for "Serenity," because the rest of the audience was half the reason for going. The Potters and Treks and Twilights aren't my crowd, but I'm sure they felt the same. (My next Thee-ay-Ter excursion will be in December, for Sherlock Hobbit.)

182 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 12:10:15pm

re: #177 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I won't say that I promote piracy, simply that I understand it. I consider the Internet the "Great Equalizer," which is slowly eroding the decades-long iron grip that groups like the MPAA, RIAA, game producers, book publishers, etc have had on the distribution of their products. The music industry has started to get onboard somewhat with things like iTunes or the various third-party pay-per-song services, where even an album only costs $10 instead of $20+.

iTunes was also quite beneficial to the distributors. Maintain servers and an accessible front-end to do sales. Don't have to deal with putting the music on a CD (or other hard media), packaging, transporting, storage, and dealing with excess inventory. Plus it removes another middle man from the equation - the end-seller with the store.

183 recusancy  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 12:12:13pm

theoatmeal.com has a good SOPA cartoon: [Link: theoatmeal.com...]

184 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 12:12:32pm

re: #182 oaktree

iTunes was also quite beneficial to the distributors. Maintain servers and an accessible front-end to do sales. Don't have to deal with putting the music on a CD (or other hard media), packaging, transporting, storage, and dealing with excess inventory. Plus it removes another middle man from the equation - the end-seller with the store.

Yep. But even then, they only sell what the people holding the rights to the music will allow. Which is why sites like Pirate Bay exist.

185 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 1:06:20pm

Hopefully you will also be blasting former Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd, now a lobbyist for the motion picture industry who was just on CNN vigorously DEFENDING this bill.

Dodd is about as far from being a Republican as any politician in the country.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 1:07:44pm

re: #185 _RememberTonyC

We are blasting that crook.

187 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 1:08:48pm

re: #186 Sergey Romanov

We are blasting that crook.

good

189 Stephen T.  Thu, Jan 19, 2012 5:50:38am

I meticulously digitized my and my wife's collection of CDs so that we could listen to our music on our iPods (16,285 songs). I've have purchased a few albums from the iTunes store, but not many. One thing I've noticed about our music is that very little of it is new. We don't buy new music, not because we can pirate it, but because it isn't worth buying.

I have also noticed that whenever a new album is about to be released for sale, a clean, digital copy is suddenly available to pirate just before the sale date. I believe that some of the sources of piracy may be part of the recording industry itself. Someone in the publisher's offices must realize that releasing it early can be used as a marketing gimmick to promote sales, even if the rest of the company doesn't know what is going on. There was the story (possibly a myth) of the newspaper that sued itself when it saw its own articles online only to discover that it was their own website that had posted the articles.


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