1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:19:22pm

///Wait it ends with Obama saying that he approves this message? Why did he just get a SuperPAC to do it for him? I hear that’s the trendy thing to do these days….

2 palomino  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:22:45pm

I’m not sure that ad will work. It’s reasonable, centrist and doesn’t accuse anyone of hating America or being a socialist.

Romney’s about to run an incredibly dirty campaign in the general. He’s been running for 5 years, and certainly doesn’t want to be denied. Moreover, he’s not shy about using the nasty code language and dog whistles that McCain, to his everlasting credit, refused to lower himself to. But Romney lacks the integrity, scruples, and core convictions of a John McCain.

Romney will achieve his smears largely through SuperPACs, so as to keep a plausible distance, but his fingerprints will be all over it. If you thought 2008 was ugly, just wait a few more weeks…this is gonna be a total embarassment.

3 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:24:36pm

re: #2 palomino

I’m not sure that ad will work. It’s reasonable, centrist and doesn’t accuse anyone of hating America or being a socialist.

Romney’s about to run an incredibly dirty campaign in the general. He’s been running for 5 years, and certainly doesn’t want to be denied. Moreover, he’s not shy about using the nasty code language and dog whistles that McCain, to his everlasting credit, refused to lower himself to. But Romney lacks the integrity, scruples, and core convictions of a John McCain.

Romney will achieve his smears largely through SuperPACs, so as to keep a plausible distance, but his fingerprints will be all over it. If you thought 2008 was ugly, just wait a few more weeks…this is gonna be a total embarassment.

I think the Democrats are ready for Romney’s tricks. And yeah it will be ugly because Mitt is that desperate to be president.

4 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:26:23pm

re: #2 palomino

Ads “that fact-checkers say are not tethered to the facts” may be accurate, but it’s also an extremely polite way of putting it.

5 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:27:15pm

“Independent Watchdogs” my ass. Obama lapdogs is more like it! nor does that ad addresshow much of America’s ‘green energy’ industry is in fact being underwritten by subsidies, subsidies derived from debt we’re going to struggle to pay off.

Typical campaign bullshit.

6 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:29:16pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

“Independent Watchdogs” my ass. Obama lapdogs is more like it! nor does that ad addresshow much of America’s ‘green energy’ industry is in fact being underwritten by subsidies, subsidies derived from debt we’re going to struggle to pay off.

Typical campaign bullshit.

America can either pay subsidies now to develop non oil related energy sources, or we can pay money to other countries for volts when they do develop them.

Penny Wise, pound foolish Dark.

7 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:29:34pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

We have far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more subsidies for dirty energy than clean energy.

Why did you put green energy in quotes?

8 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:30:36pm

Not one mention of how many mosques he has built. What a sham

9 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:31:05pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

Not one mention of how many mosques he has built. What a sham

Or how he’s going to implement Sharia Law right after he legalizes gay marriage. For shame.

10 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:31:12pm

re: #7 Obdicut

We have far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more subsidies for dirty energy than clean energy.

Why did you put green energy in quotes?

No kidding.

11 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:33:04pm
As early as 1916, the federal government instituted income tax incentives to encourage individuals and corporations to drill for oil. During the 1930s, federally financed dams created hydroelectric power. From the 1950s onward, the federal government financed research into nuclear power. More recently, the federal government has provided research funding and other financing to expand the availability of renewable energy sources. 2 Virtually all U.S. energy resources have received or currently receive subsidies.
[Link: www.window.state.tx.us…]

Subsidies by fuel source, 2006:
Image: exhibit28-5.png

12 palomino  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:34:01pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

I think the Democrats are ready for Romney’s tricks. And yeah it will be ugly because Mitt is that desperate to be president.

A man willing to change his position on virtually any issue for political expediency is unlikely to have the personal integrity to avoid attacking his opponent in any way possible, including the racist, xenophobic variety.

Think about the Romney of 8 years ago compared with the guy today. Now has opposite views on abortion, gay rights, gun control, immigration, climate change, health care, Reagan/Bush, and the list goes on and on. It’s not just that he’s a fraud, he’s a guy who stands for “Romney for Prez” and nothing else.

13 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:34:05pm

re: #7 Obdicut

We have far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more subsidies for dirty energy than clean energy.

Why did you put green energy in quotes?

Because it often seems more like a tax-farming industry instead.

Forgive the irregular reply delays. I’m painting.

14 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:35:19pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

Not one mention of how many mosques he has built. What a sham

Nor any mention of how many God fearing Americans he’s turned into gay atheists. I swear, this guy can’t get credit for doing anything.

15 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:35:31pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

Because it often seems more like a tax-farming industry instead.

Nah. That’s ethanol. And farm subsidies.

16 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:35:55pm

re: #12 palomino

A man willing to change his position on virtually any issue for political expediency is unlikely to have the personal integrity to avoid attacking his opponent in any way possible, including the racist, xenophobic variety.

Think about the Romney of 8 years ago compared with the guy today. Now has opposite views on abortion, gay rights, gun control, immigration, climate change, health care, Reagan/Bush, and the list goes on and on. It’s not just that he’s a fraud, he’s a guy who stands for “Romney for Prez” and nothing else.

I’ve looked at how Romney’s completely changed his opinions on some issues over the years and it’s just amazing. The guy has no principles what soever.

17 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:36:14pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

Because it often seems more like a tax-farming industry instead.

Forgive the irregular reply delays. I’m painting.

What are you talking about? Tax-farming? That’s when you privatize taxation, selling off the rights to tax.

You’re now criticizing green energy? You accept AGW, you accept the huge need for green energy, and yet now you’re saying the green energy industry— which receives far less in subsidies than the traditional energy industry does— is a ‘tax farming industry’?

What the fuck?

18 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:36:23pm

I’ve been noticing an upsurge of disquiet with Mittens at the some of the more right wing nutcase gun websites I occasionally try to get tech knowledge out of. They’re remembering the anti-gun laws he happily fought for and signed into law in Massachusetts. And some noticing that Obama may not be Mr. Gun but he has signed a bunch of pro-gun things. They aren’t about to go en-mass for Obama, but they may not be willing to vote for Romney.

The Democrats did learn their lesson from the lost seats after the Assault Weapon Ban and will not go there again anytime soon.

19 Kragar  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:36:52pm

Not one mention of his birth certificate?

WHY IS OBAMA TRYING TO AVOID THE ISSUES?

/

20 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:36:56pm

re: #12 palomino

A man willing to change his position on virtually any issue for political expediency is unlikely to have the personal integrity to avoid attacking his opponent in any way possible, including the racist, xenophobic variety.

Think about the Romney of 8 years ago compared with the guy today. Now has opposite views on abortion, gay rights, gun control, immigration, climate change, health care, Reagan/Bush, and the list goes on and on. It’s not just that he’s a fraud, he’s a guy who stands for “Romney for Prez” and nothing else.

Oh my God… a man who stands for nothing but acquiring the office of the President, not even standard conservative values however much I may disagree with them? Do you know what that means? Mitt Romney is The Smiler!

21 palomino  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:38:23pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

“Independent Watchdogs” my ass. Obama lapdogs is more like it! nor does that ad addresshow much of America’s ‘green energy’ industry is in fact being underwritten by subsidies, subsidies derived from debt we’re going to struggle to pay off.

Typical campaign bullshit.

Yeah, man, drill baby drill…that’s the future.

As the election nears you seem to be losing perspective and you’ve fallen in line with your talking points. Good work, Limbaugh and Malkin would be proud of you.

22 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:40:26pm

Oh, cool. I just got a Nigerian scam email in my spam box written as if it were from Libya. Bet they can get some greedy idiots that way because they’ll think it’s possible from the chaos over there.

The more things change…

23 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:40:55pm

Biggest output of U.S. oil and gas industry?

24 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:41:15pm

re: #15 Lidane

Farm subsidies I might not mind so much, depending. We all gotta eat, and citrus growers here in the valley have spent over $80M in Dec. to keep their crops from freezing.

Now, subsidies for industries that make quarterly profits in the billions? Not so fond of that.

25 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:43:52pm

re: #24 Slumbering Behemoth

Farm subsidies I might not mind so much, depending. We all gotta eat, and citrus growers here in the valley have spent over $80M in Dec. to keep their crops from freezing.

Now, subsidies for industries that make quarterly profits in the billions? Not so fond of that.

Yeah seriously we have a lot of policies that coddle big businesses and industry. You’d think the so called conservatives in Congress would hate that but most of them have no problem with that because those industries and businesses support them.

26 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:46:22pm

re: #24 Slumbering Behemoth

Now, subsidies for industries that make quarterly profits in the billions? Not so fond of that.

Didn’t you know? Subsidies are rewards for success!

Rep. Stearns (R-FL): ‘When Somebody Is Successful Then You Give Them Subsidies’

27 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:48:22pm

Note to self: don’t kick honet’s nest right before undertaking difficult stage of painting.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:49:36pm

re: #22 wlewisiii

Oh, cool. I just got a Nigerian scam email in my spam box written as if it were from Libya. Bet they can get some greedy idiots that way because they’ll think it’s possible from the chaos over there.

The more things change…

I started getting letter from members of Saddam Hussein’s family while U.S. troops were still driving toward Baghdad.

29 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:49:40pm

re: #25 HappyWarrior

For those folk, “conservative” is just a jacket they put on or take off at their convenience. They have little interest in actually being conservative.

30 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:49:49pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

Note to self: don’t kick honet’s nest right before undertaking difficult stage of painting.

Or if you do, don’t fuck up and use terms like ‘tax farming’ when they have no applicability whatsoever.

31 EdDantes  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:50:11pm

I see from that ad that Obama is a lefty.

32 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:50:19pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

For those folk, “conservative” is just a jacket they put on or take off at their convenience. They have little interest in actually being conservative.

Yeah I know. They’re about as conservative as I am. Maybe less so. Heh.

33 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:50:25pm

Does anyone know if that Frog tape works?

34 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:52:10pm

re: #33 Amory Blaine

Does anyone know if that Frog tape works?

The frog has to be dead and dried out for the tape to stick. Live frogs are too slimy for it to work.

35 Ming  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:52:15pm

The anti-Obama rhetoric has been so vicious, and unrelenting for 3 years, that we may be in uncharted territory. I’m afraid there are many Americans, probably millions, who honestly believe that he’s a socialist / traitor / America-hater / not-like-me / etc. Also, instability in e.g. Europe or the Middle East (hello, Iran) could easily send U.S. unemployment up again. As one of Obama’s advisers said a few months ago, it will be a “titanic struggle” to re-elect Obama.

36 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:52:47pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

Note to self: don’t kick honet’s nest right before undertaking difficult stage of painting.

Yes, scare quotes of ‘green energy’ is a good kick of the hornet’s nest.

37 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:54:28pm

re: #35 Ming

The anti-Obama rhetoric has been so vicious, and unrelenting for 3 years, that we may be in uncharted territory. I’m afraid there are many Americans, probably millions, who honestly believe that he’s a socialist / traitor / America-hater / not-like-me / etc.

The same was true of Clinton’s admin. I listened to a lot of RW talk radio back then, and much of what we hear from that crowd now is just recycled shit from the 90’s.

38 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:54:51pm

re: #25 HappyWarrior

Yeah seriously we have a lot of policies that coddle big businesses and industry. You’d think the so called conservatives in Congress would hate that but most of them have no problem with that because those industries and businesses support them.

It’s actually a remarkable exercise in Doublethink. Convincing Americans that Conservatism and Republicans are defenders of the little guy has been an achievement nothing short of miraculous, despite the fact that it’s at heart a very simple equation.

‘We surround Them! We’re Real Americans, just like you! Not those pointy-headed liberal machine politics Democrat elitists!’ And there is much cheering.

But then someone slips, and accidentally states the truth, by saying something like when businesses are huge and successful, the purpose of government as they see it is to give them more taxpayer money to reward them for making a lot of money, because big powerful people should become more rich and powerful at the expense of all you little parasites.

You’d think that this, being the opposite of the first statement, might cause some people to ask questions. But then you can always fall back on, ‘Er, but you hate those libs, right?’

And, reliably, you will then get responses like:

“Independent Watchdogs” my ass. Obama lapdogs is more like it! nor does that ad addresshow much of America’s ‘green energy’ industry is in fact being underwritten by subsidies, subsidies derived from debt we’re going to struggle to pay off.

Typical campaign bullshit.

39 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:56:57pm

Hornets don’t figure in. It’s just not coherent to say that subsidies for burning carbon are somehow good things that we don’t have to struggle to pay for, and yet subsidies to develop energy sources cleaner than those we use now are bad and wasteful.

40 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:56:59pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

Note to self: don’t kick honet’s nest right before undertaking difficult stage of painting.

I’m afraid the only thing you’ve “painted” in this thread is yourself into a corner :)

The Solar Energy industry grew more than any other, and is a jobs program for military personnel. Why do you hate jobs programs for military personnel? :P

41 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:57:34pm

re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth

The same was true of Clinton’s admin. I listened to a lot of RW talk radio back then, and much of what we hear from that crowd now is just recycled shit from the 90’s.

The rhetoric feels like it was worse than in the Clinton years but then again I pay more attention than I did during the Clinton years and we didn’t have as much mass communications. There sure was alot of nasty hatred delivered at both guys though.

42 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:58:05pm

re: #40 publicityStunted

I’m afraid the only thing you’ve “painted” in this thread is yourself into a corner :)

The Solar Energy industry grew more than any other, and is a jobs program for military personnel. Why do you hate jobs programs for military personnel? :P

Nice find.

43 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:58:09pm

re: #37 Slumbering Behemoth

The same was true of Clinton’s admin. I listened to a lot of RW talk radio back then, and much of what we hear from that crowd now is just recycled shit from the 90’s.

Pretty much. They’ve just added an ugly racist component to it all.

By all accounts, Barack Obama is a stable family man, happily married and father of two. He’s even got his mother-in-law living in the White House, FFS. They can’t go after him for “bimbo eruptions” or anything salacious regarding interns, so they go after his name, his skin color, and everything else to paint him as an “other”.

44 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:58:29pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

The conspiracy stories in the right-wing were fringe during Clinton. Now they’re mainstream.

45 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:58:55pm

Night Lizards. Skipped the last thread and this one as well. Full tummy and time head to bead.

Rest well and may the Deity of your choice smile down upon you.

46 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 7:59:16pm

re: #35 Ming

The anti-Obama rhetoric has been so vicious, and unrelenting for 3 years, that we may be in uncharted territory. I’m afraid there are many Americans, probably millions, who honestly believe that he’s a socialist / traitor / America-hater / not-like-me / etc.

Yes, there really are. And the worst part is, most of those people are not Conservative cultists. Most of them are regular, ordinary people who don’t watch a ton of news, but the all-pervasive nature of Conservative cult media has filtered a few talking points through to. So they don’t believe he’s a Kenyan Manchurian candidate, but yeah, he’s totally a socialist who wants absolute government power. And they know death panels don’t want to kill your grandma, but the government will totally stop you from getting an MRI if we don’t overturn Obamacare, because we all know government healthcare is run by bureaucrats and terrible.

This isn’t snark. This is what I hear from educated Americans every day. This is the greatest victory of the Conservatist media.

47 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:00:38pm

re: #44 Obdicut

The conspiracy stories in the right-wing were fringe during Clinton. Now they’re mainstream.

I can remember my friends obviously parroting their folks claiming Clinton sold nuclear secrets to the Chinese.

48 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:01:56pm

re: #46 Renaissance_Man

Yes, there really are. And the worst part is, most of those people are not Conservative cultists. Most of them are regular, ordinary people who don’t watch a ton of news, but the all-pervasive nature of Conservative cult media has filtered a few talking points through to. So they don’t believe he’s a Kenyan Manchurian candidate, but yeah, he’s totally a socialist who wants absolute government power. And they know death panels don’t want to kill your grandma, but the government will totally stop you from getting an MRI if we don’t overturn Obamacare, because we all know government healthcare is run by bureaucrats and terrible.

This isn’t snark. This is what I hear from educated Americans every day. This is the greatest victory of the Conservatist media.

My kid brother is one of the few kids in his class that likes Obama. Tells me no joke that he has birthers for classmates. These kids no doubt are just repeating what they hear from their folks and other older relatives and social circle but damn.

49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:02:43pm

Is it noteworthy that it doesn’t say Obama/Biden?

50 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:02:45pm

Political propaganda ads are already all over the tv in Milwaukee. That Solyndra ad runs like nonstop and then there’s Walker, sitting on the couch, lettin’ us know what a great guy he is. Yikes it’s going to be a rough year.

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:03:47pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

The rhetoric feels like it was worse than in the Clinton years but then again I pay more attention than I did during the Clinton years and we didn’t have as much mass communications. There sure was alot of nasty hatred delivered at both guys though.

That’s it right there, the exponential growth of the internet since then has given us greater exposure to the good, the bad, and the ugly.

As I said, I used to listen to a lot of RW talk radio back then, but it wasn’t until the late 90’s that I had sufficient access to the internet that I could see that much of the shit being slung by RWTR was sourced in Alex Jones conspiracy theory bullshit.

These days, it’s much easier to use the internet to find a wide variety of this crap, and to see what stuff is pilfered from Jones, WND, and the like.

52 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:04:02pm

re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is it noteworthy that it doesn’t say Obama/Biden?

Could be that Obama intends to replace Biden. Biden’s gonna be 70 either this year or next. Or could be nothing.

53 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:04:10pm

re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(0:29)

54 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:04:48pm

re: #48 HappyWarrior

My kid brother is one of the few kids in his class that likes Obama. Tells me no joke that he has birthers for classmates. These kids no doubt are just repeating what they hear from their folks and other older relatives and social circle but damn.

Kids will always parrot their parents, and that’s fine. What makes me really sad though is that ‘teach the controversy’ is not just a theory. It’s now established; you can make up facts, put them on the news and insist that they’re Fair and Balanced, scream loudly about bias when people suggest that your ‘facts’ are fake, and everyone will back down and decide that the truth lies somewhere between the actual truth and your made-up facts.

Public education disaster. And I fear for America as a result.

55 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:04:52pm

re: #48 HappyWarrior

My kid brother is one of the few kids in his class that likes Obama. Tells me no joke that he has birthers for classmates. These kids no doubt are just repeating what they hear from their folks and other older relatives and social circle but damn.

I found out over Christmas that I have birther relatives who believe every right-wing meme about Obama. Name it, they probably parroted it. No surprise, these relatives are all Faux News watchers and Republicans.

Sitting there in my aunt’s house listening to that tripe, I decided it wasn’t worth it to upset my mother and grandmother during the holidays. I just went into full bobblehead mode and kept my mouth shut. It’s not worth the agita.

56 EdDantes  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:05:13pm

Nite all. Therefore, make peace with your god,
Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
The world continues to deteriorate.
Give up!

57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:05:23pm

re: #53 jaunte

I had the sound off. Did they say it? Because I didn’t see it in video.

58 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:06:13pm

re: #30 Obdicut

Or if you do, don’t fuck up and use terms like ‘tax farming’ when they have no applicability whatsoever.

Tax farming was indeed ill-chosen.

but at least my painting goes well. Photos later tonight.

59 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:06:29pm

re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, it was the logo super, from about :26 to the end. Not saying he couldn’t go with someone else, though.

60 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:06:50pm

re: #43 Lidane

Pretty much. They’ve just added an ugly racist component to it all.

To a major degree, yes. But the more common stuff (socialism/abortion/etc.) are just generic retreads from the Clinton admin.

61 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:07:02pm

re: #54 Renaissance_Man

Kids will always parrot their parents, and that’s fine. What makes me really sad though is that ‘teach the controversy’ is not just a theory. It’s now established; you can make up facts, put them on the news and insist that they’re Fair and Balanced, scream loudly about bias when people suggest that your ‘facts’ are fake, and everyone will back down and decide that the truth lies somewhere between the actual truth and your made-up facts.

Public education disaster. And I fear for America as a result.

Yep. Totally right on.

62 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:08:32pm

re: #55 Lidane

I found out over Christmas that I have birther relatives who believe every right-wing meme about Obama. Name it, they probably parroted it. No surprise, these relatives are all Faux News watchers and Republicans.

Sitting there in my aunt’s house listening to that tripe, I decided it wasn’t worth it to upset my mother and grandmother during the holidays. I just went into full bobblehead mode and kept my mouth shut. It’s not worth the agita.

Most of my family is fairly politically sane but damn it just amazes me that people believe these crazy conspiracies about Obama.

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:08:50pm

re: #53 jaunte

(0:29)

Saw it, missed the first time. Thanks.

Biden/Quayle!

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:10:02pm

re: #55 Lidane

I found out over Christmas that I have birther relatives who believe every right-wing meme about Obama. Name it, they probably parroted it. No surprise, these relatives are all Faux News watchers and Republicans.

Not just Fox News. I have a relative that believes that stuff, and she doesn’t watch FNC. She watches televangelist programs damn near 24/7, and that’s where she gets that shit from.

65 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:10:33pm

re: #63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See the story I linked? TonyC linked it earlier.

He’s the gaff gift that keeps on giving.

66 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:10:47pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Birthers, truthers, deathers, and Conservative cultists in general will always be a minority. And for the most part, they’re like any other cult like the Moonies - happy in their little world, annoying at parties, and so on. The real tragedy is when regular people decide that ‘some’ of their dogma has to be true, because it’s just ‘one side of the story’. And then they vote with those beliefs.

67 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:11:00pm

re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth

To a major degree, yes. But the more common stuff (socialism/abortion/etc.) are just generic retreads from the Clinton admin.

Yeah, true. Those are retreads from every Democratic administration, though. You know, since liberal/moderate = commie. Or something.

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:12:33pm

re: #67 Lidane

Yeah, true. Those are retreads from every Democratic administration, though. You know, since liberal/moderate = commie. Or something.

I’ve only been paying attention since the Clinton admin.

69 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:12:49pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

“Independent Watchdogs” my ass. Obama lapdogs is more like it! nor does that ad addresshow much of America’s ‘green energy’ industry is in fact being underwritten by subsidies, subsidies derived from debt we’re going to struggle to pay off.

Typical campaign bullshit.

So what exactly do you have against “green energy?”

70 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:13:00pm

re: #55 Lidane

I found out over Christmas that I have birther relatives who believe every right-wing meme about Obama. Name it, they probably parroted it. No surprise, these relatives are all Faux News watchers and Republicans.

Sitting there in my aunt’s house listening to that tripe, I decided it wasn’t worth it to upset my mother and grandmother during the holidays. I just went into full bobblehead mode and kept my mouth shut. It’s not worth the agita.

Do you one better, both my folks dislike Obama and I’ve not had the nerve yet to say that I support him. They’ve both been single-issue voters for years, namely against Democrats due to the old Reagan-era belief that only Republicans truly “care” about the military and so believe that Republican administrations mean better jobs and higher pay.

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:13:59pm

Speaking of the Commie/Socialist whatever. Had to deal with some blowhard mutual acquaintance on facebook the other day getting pissy when I said that there were great socialists in history. I mean shit man. Not every socialist is evil or a blood thirsty tyrant. And then he made himself look like a jackass by pulling the old Nazis were socialist canard. He was furious when I pointed out the CP-USA was the biggest voice against lynching and segregation. I am not big on the CP-USA but I am big on nuance and realizing that they stood for some good things and that was one of them.

72 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:14:38pm

Imagine the horror if America started becoming energy self-sufficient.

Gaahhh! The liberals would win! Must … destroy … green … energy …

73 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:15:56pm

re: #69 Charles

So what exactly do you have against “green energy?”

Liberals like it.

74 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:16:09pm

re: #72 Charles

Imagine the horror if America started becoming energy self-sufficient.

Gaahhh! The liberals would win! Must … destroy … green … energy …

They’re all for self-sufficiency…so long as it’s because we’re plundering the very ground we live on for the finite supplies of dirty fuels that reside there. After all, what have you against drilling for oil in your backyard? You some kinda commie?

///

75 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:16:17pm

re: #72 Charles

Burly man’s men reduced to pansies, penis shrinkage, and rampant tofu eating.

76 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:16:39pm

SolarKindle cover basks in the sun’s rays, charges for days and days.

77 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:18:05pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

I’ve only been paying attention since the Clinton admin.

Well, same here. The first election I was old enough to vote in was in 1992. But I remember enough of the 80’s to remember a lot of the Cold War rhetoric being thrown around about commies and socialists.

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:18:35pm

re: #76 jaunte

Right now I can’t decide if you’re a socialist, a commie, a homosexual, an atheist, or a muslim, so I’ll simply ask… Why do you hate America? Why do you hate freedom?

79 freetoken  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:18:37pm

re: #72 Charles

Imagine the horror if America started becoming energy self-sufficient.

I’d be happy if we admitted to ourselves that we like using oodles of energy.

Examining oneself is certainly not a popular theme in today’s political climate.

80 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:20:17pm

re: #77 Lidane

Well, same here. The first election I was old enough to vote in was in 1992. But I remember enough of the 80’s to remember a lot of the Cold War rhetoric being thrown around about commies and socialists.

In the 80’s, I was too busy smoking weed and banging my head to Iron Maiden to pay attention to any of that shit.

81 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:22:38pm

re: #77 Lidane

Well, same here. The first election I was old enough to vote in was in 1992. But I remember enough of the 80’s to remember a lot of the Cold War rhetoric being thrown around about commies and socialists.

That sort of shit never went away, it just mutated to fit the “bad guy du jour.” During the 00’s, “commies” and “socialists” became “terrorists” and “troop-haters.” We’ve come back to “commies” and “socialists,” but now it’s not speaking about supporting the Soviets but instead believing that the government should be able to ban the sale of raw milk just because it’s dangerous to consume.

82 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:25:02pm

re: #81 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

We’ve come back to “commies” and “socialists,” but now it’s not speaking about supporting the Soviets but instead believing that the government should be able to ban the sale of raw milk just because it’s dangerous to consume.

If you can find a RWMJ that believes banning raw milk is socialism, then I’d say you’re in a really weird part of town.

83 Single-handed sailor  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:25:15pm

re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth

In the 80’s, I was too busy smoking weed and banging my head to Iron Maiden to pay attention to any of that shit.

So, did you quit weed and headbanging or have you learned to multitask since then?

84 KingKenrod  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:25:39pm

ABC fact-checks the ad:

[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

- The quotes Obama used to promote his ethics record both came within 3 months of his inauguration.
- The 2.7 million green jobs uses a really broad definition. For instance, it includes all mass transit workers. And the ad makes it appear Obama is taking credit for all green jobs.
- The “less than 50% imported oil” claim is true, but a large part of that is due to the severe recession. The trend down began in 2005.

The President does get credit for implementing tougher fuel standards. And of course the “attacks by oil companies” is entirely true.

85 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:26:48pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

If you can find a RWMJ that believes banning raw milk is socialism, then I’d say you’re in a really weird part of town.

Don’t have to go far, just have to seek out a Paulian and ask him his thoughts on legalizing raw milk.

86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:26:49pm

re: #83 mracb

So, did you quit weed and headbanging or have you learned to multitask since then?

I’m too old to head bang, but I still listen. I haven’t smoked weed in at least a few years. I didn’t exactly quit, I just can’t afford it, and I don’t much like hanging out with modern day stoners.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:27:30pm

re: #85 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Don’t have to go far, just have to seek out a Paulian and ask him his thoughts on legalizing raw milk.

And I was just going to append my comment with “TRON PAUL!!!”

88 jaunte  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:29:39pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

If you can find a RWMJ that believes banning raw milk is socialism, then I’d say you’re in a really weird part of town.

Somewhere in Maryland:

Message to the FDA: “I Drink Raw Milk. Arrest Me!”

89 freetoken  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:30:01pm

re: #84 KingKenrod

- The “less than 50% imported oil” claim is true, but a large part of that is due to the severe recession. The trend down began in 2005.

That was my first thought when I watched the video.

Note that domestic petroleum production (and double note that I am using “petroleum” and not “oil” as the latter word is abusively defined by various vested parties) has increased the past few years. This is due to two things: delayed GoM projects from the 2005 hurricane season finally have come online (or peaked), and higher global petroleum prices have made previously unprofitable resources (such as the Bakken fields in North Dakota) profitable to drill.

The President does get credit for implementing tougher fuel standards.

IMO this was such a no-brainer, but of course the throw-backs whine about this too.

90 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:33:00pm

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

And I was just going to append my comment with “TRON PAUL!!!”

He’s in your computer fighting the MCP and defending your freedom!

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:33:01pm

re: #88 jaunte

That’s a weird part of town.

92 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:35:08pm

re: #90 oaktree

He’s in your computer fighting the MCP and defending your freedom!

But he refuses to let me delete prenatal files!

93 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:35:33pm

Nuts. Apparently there is a TRON PAUL xkcd. But the SOPA blackout is still in effect.

94 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:36:14pm

re: #89 freetoken

That was my first thought when I watched the video.

Note that domestic petroleum production (and double note that I am using “petroleum” and not “oil” as the latter word is abusively defined by various vested parties) has increased the past few years. This is due to two things: delayed GoM projects from the 2005 hurricane season finally have come online (or peaked), and higher global petroleum prices have made previously unprofitable resources (such as the Bakken fields in North Dakota) profitable to drill.

IMO this was such a no-brainer, but of course the throw-backs whine about this too.

From personal experience, I’d say part of it has also been due to a decreased demand as people have reassessed their lives and found ways to reduce their usage of gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles and devices. Car-pooling, walking, bike-riding, public transportation, and various other methods that the “cheap” gasoline of yesterday made seem pointless seem now to be getting much more usage.

95 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:36:46pm

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

And I was just going to append my comment with “TRON PAUL!!!”

Full disclosure: That was an honest to goodness typo that I corrected, then re-typoed, because it looked funnier to me that way.

96 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:36:49pm

re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth

But he refuses to let me delete prenatal files!

Libertarian file storage! A program takes what it wants and to hell with the rest of the operating system. Oh wait, that’s MS policy.

97 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:37:34pm

re: #90 oaktree

He’s in your computer fighting the MCP and defending your freedom!

He fights for the users!

/

98 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:39:25pm

A sister of a close friend died in an accident.

What the fuck do I do now? I have no experiences of this magnitude to get aid from. I am utterly lost.

99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:39:46pm

re: #96 oaktree

Libertarian file storage! A program takes what it wants and to hell with the rest of the operating system. Oh wait, that’s MS policy.

FILES RIGHTS!!! I won’t make marijuana illegal at the root level, but I will allow each individual file to do so, if they so choose.

100 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:40:01pm

i paid all these big buxx to this dating service and the best match they came up with so far has to go to her wednesday night christian science meeting??? wtf???

to be fair, she’s a graphic artist, which is pretty sympatico…

101 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:41:02pm

re: #90 oaktree

He’s in your computer fighting the MCP and defending your freedom!

Actually, with his gold-obsession Ron Paul is actually CLU.

102 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:41:30pm

re: #98 ProLifeLiberal

Offer a shoulder for crying upon, and an ear for listening. There really isn’t much else one can do.

103 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:43:37pm

re: #100 engineer dog

i paid all these big buxx to this dating service and the best match they came up with so far has to go to her wednesday night christian science meeting??? wtf???

to be fair, she’s a graphic artist, which is pretty sympatico…

Christian Science? That sounds like an oxymoron to me.

104 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:43:46pm

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

Actually, with his gold-obsession Ron Paul is actually CLU.

We can’t simply issue bytes by fiat! They must be backed by something of tangible value.

105 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:45:35pm

re: #102 Slumbering Behemoth

Did that. I guess it’s wait and see.

I swear, I’m some sort of misery magnet. In the past year (actually, since August), most of my closest friends have gone through nasty emotional trauma.

106 freetoken  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:46:47pm

re: #94 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The driving/mileage statistics for the US show that with the Great Recession came a decrease in driving, which still hasn’t recovered to the peak levels.

And perhaps it never will, as global fuel prices are still quite high, 2011 was a high year, and the “recovery” worldwide will keep the prices high.

China’s GDP YoY growth was still quite strong in 2011, and I doubt the developing world will stall much even if the Euro-zone goes through some financial turmoil.

107 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:50:04pm

re: #106 freetoken

The driving/mileage statistics for the US show that with the Great Recession came a decrease in driving, which still hasn’t recovered to the peak levels.

And perhaps it never will, as global fuel prices are still quite high, 2011 was a high year, and the “recovery” worldwide will keep the prices high.

China’s GDP YoY growth was still quite strong in 2011, and I doubt the developing world will stall much even if the Euro-zone goes through some financial turmoil.

I figure that even when the driving/mileage makes it back to peak levels, it will due to a great dependence by drivers on more fuel-efficient vehicles, whether they be hybrids or items like Ford’s Ecoboost tech. The latter in particular as it allows vehicles to enjoy the fuel mileage of a smaller engine and the power of a larger one.

108 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:08:24pm

re: #107 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I figure that even when the driving/mileage makes it back to peak levels, it will due to a great dependence by drivers on more fuel-efficient vehicles, whether they be hybrids or items like Ford’s Ecoboost tech. The latter in particular as it allows vehicles to enjoy the fuel mileage of a smaller engine and the power of a larger one.

I wasn’t sold on the idea of buying an American car when I go back to work after grad school, but I rented a car this Christmas that changed my mind. I ended up with one of those new 2012 Ford Focus hatchbacks. AMAZING little car. The gas mileage it got was unreal. I was an instant convert. I’m getting one as soon as I get back to work full-time.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:26:52pm

re: #108 Lidane

Ford didn’t take a gov’t bailout in ‘09, so that makes their products illegal for liberals to purchase or use.
///

110 Lidane  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:42:27pm

re: #109 Slumbering Behemoth

Ford didn’t take a gov’t bailout in ‘09, so that makes their products illegal for liberals to purchase or use.
///

Heh. If anything, my conservative friends will high five me for buying an American car from the only company they still respect.

111 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:50:34pm

re: #110 Lidane

Heh. If anything, my conservative friends will high five me for buying an American car from the only company they still respect.

My dad will, anyway. He actually went even further and bought a Lincoln model that is actually made in the city of Chicago, which is as ‘buy local’ as one can get.

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:54:07pm

re: #110 Lidane

“Conservative Friend” here, I like my 20 y/o Honda. It’s a problematic bitch to work on at times, but it gets good gas mileage.

113 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 19, 2012 6:16:05am

I don’t love that ad. I think the focus on energy is not that fruitful for him. The reality is it brings Solyndra into the discussion and while I don’t think that is nearly as scandalous as the right would portray it, it is most certainly not a feel good strory. Secondly, it is not hard to understand that the reduction in US dependence on foreign oil is in part due to a stalled economy which is demanding less. I think, and hope Obama can produce better ads.

114 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jan 19, 2012 6:43:44am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

“Independent Watchdogs” my ass. Obama lapdogs is more like it! nor does that ad addresshow much of America’s ‘green energy’ industry is in fact being underwritten by subsidies, subsidies derived from debt we’re going to struggle to pay off.

Typical campaign bullshit.

Good thing the oil and gas companies aren’t getting any subsidies from our debt (and then turning around and fucking us at the pump) since they have been making RECORD profits for YEARS.

Oh wait, they are? Fucking green energy, trying to take what is rightfully the heavy polluters government money. Typical diversion tactic.

115 mikec6666  Thu, Jan 19, 2012 8:55:46am

Romney will say anything to try and get elected, Gingrich says anything to try and get elected, and Santorum doesn’t say anything worth repeating.

Tweedle-dum, tweedle-dummer, and tweedle-dummest.

Go Obama!

Peace out.


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