US Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was nearly killed in Tucson by deranged anti-immigrant, anti-government gunman Jared Lee Loughner, announced today that she’ll be resigning to focus on her recovery. Here’s the video she posted with her moving statement.
Youtube Video1 |
dragonfire1981 Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:10:37am |
I wonder if her replacement will be a Republican or a Democrat.
Good luck to her though. She’s a living miracle practically and I wish her the best.
| 2 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:10:58am |
Obviously her health is the most important thing, but what a shame.
| 3 |
Ghost of a Dopefish Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:11:02am |
Good luck to her, seriously. She’s more than earned it.
| 4 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:11:43am |
Good luck to her whatever she decides to do. She’s a class act.
| 5 |
Charleston Chew Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:16:23am |
I think it’s important to see how articulate she was before, to put it bluntly, taking a bullet to the brain. Here’s an old clip of her discussing threats over her support of healthcare and Palin targeting her with “crosshairs”. All kinda eerie in hindsight:
| 6 |
SpaceJesus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:17:04am |
If only all of Arizona’s political leaders were like her
| 7 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:19:05am |
I am sure it was a terribly difficult decision to make.
But, her constituents need a Congressperson, and she needs to focus on her well-being.
Godspeed, Congresswoman.
| 8 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:19:15am |
re: #5 Charleston Chew
I think it’s important to see how articulate she was before, to put it bluntly, taking a bullet to the brain. Here’s an old clip of her discussing threats over her support of healthcare and Palin targeting her with “crosshairs”. All kinda eerie in hindsight:
[Video]
I am still pissed at Palin calling the criticisms of her for that a “blood libel”. Way to make a tragedy about you, you crazy witch. And of course there’s the history of the blood libel added with the fact that Ms. Giffords is Jewish.
| 11 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:30:44am |
| 12 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:33:19am |
I still wish that Jared Lee Loughner had been taken out on that day.
| 13 |
calochortus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:33:38am |
I suppose it was inevitable. I hope her successor is as intelligent, articulate and courageous.
Best of luck to her and may she make a spectacular comeback.
| 14 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:34:01am |
re: #8 HappyWarrior
I’m still ticked at the Republicans for inciting that incident.
Though, I am more angry about the incitement they did to the 7/22 Norway Attack. Which has left me very much changed.
| 15 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:35:00am |
The selfish part of me wants her to stay on and stick it to all the people who live to divide and ruin America; that every day she shows up at congress is another day she shows them the consequences of their hate. That maybe, just maybe, a few of them will feel some guilt and rethink their actions.
But I’m glad she’s focusing on herself. She deserves the time to heal rest.
And who knows, maybe after she’s had some time and continued her recovery, she’ll come back and stick it to them again, this time in the Senate.
But for now, take care of yourself Rep Giffords.
| 16 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:36:48am |
re: #14 ProLifeLiberal
I’m still ticked at the Republicans for inciting that incident.
Though, I am more angry about the incitement they did to the 7/22 Norway Attack. Which has left me very much changed.
I was mad that she made a tragedy that left several dead about her. Oh look at me, I am the victim of a blood libel and then the psychotic nut has the nerve to act like she’s a friend of the Jewish people. If she truly gave a damn, she wouldn’t have made that outrageous comparsion since the real blood libel has been used as justification for murdering innocent Jewish people throughout the centuries. And yeah the apologists for Brevik still have me furious. Shit, I hate what the Republicans stand for but if someone did what Brevik did to the Young Social Democrats but to Young Republicans. I’d be furious.
| 17 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:38:12am |
re: #14 ProLifeLiberal
I’m still ticked at the Republicans for inciting that incident.
Though, I am more angry about the incitement they did to the 7/22 Norway Attack. Which has left me very much changed.
Sorry, that’s a lot of unprecise overgeneralizing. Kinda like what some people say about “the left” here.
Rs indeed created a hateful atmosphere, including the infamous Palin’s target map, but Loughner is still not a “typical R” who acted because of that map or because of that atmosphere.
And blaming Republicans for Utoya is ridiculous.
| 18 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:39:10am |
I can understand why she is leaving but I do not want her to. Good Luck in your recovery Gabby. Hurry back your country needs you.
| 19 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:39:26am |
re: #17 Sergey Romanov
Sorry, that’s a lot of unprecise overgeneralizing. Kinda like what some people say about “the left” here.
Rs indeed created a hateful atmosphere, including the infamous Palin’s target map, but Loughner is still not a “typical R” who acted because of that map or because of that atmosphere.
And blaming Republicans for Utoya is ridiculous.
Typical Republican, no. However, in addition to being mentally ill, he was a very typical far right libertarian.
| 20 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:40:29am |
re: #19 Charles
Typical Republican, no. However, in addition to being mentally ill, he was a very typical far right libertarian.
I’m not denying that.
| 21 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:42:01am |
re: #19 Charles
Typical Republican, no. However, in addition to being mentally ill, he was a very typical far right libertarian.
I also don’t think that far-right libertarians are easily swayed by socons like Palin.
| 22 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:42:57am |
re: #17 Sergey Romanov
Breivik cited the Republicans hundreds (if not thousands) of times in his manifesto.
The Republicans are in part responsible for what happened, though there promotion of hate, and exporting it.
| 23 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:44:18am |
Ultimately I think Brevik and Lougner are responsible for their own actions. But on the other hand, the rhetoric that the Republicans and right wing pundits have been using since his election hasn’t helped a damn. And as I said, Palin was disgusting for making the tragedy about her. She’s a terrible person. I have no qualms in saying that.
| 24 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:44:56am |
| 25 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:47:14am |
re: #24 publicityStunted
Although I know Geert Wilders also can be in part to blame for what happened in Norway too.
THe Dutch didn’t do condolences outside of Twitter, and then Wilders used the attacks to say people should be more anti-Muslim, and the Dutch government didn’t condemn him.
I’m very ashamed to be 37.5% Dutch. Yes, I crunched the numbers on my ancestry.
| 26 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:48:06am |
re: #22 ProLifeLiberal
He cited Romney and Santorum? Palin and Cantor?
Or he cited a particular subset of conservatives who would be anti-Muslims regardless of whether they would be Republican or not? (In fact, I don’t know if the people he cited even formally belong to the R party.)
Your “dragnet” is a bit too wide. This is the same logic that blames all Muslims whenever an Islamist explodes a bomb.
| 27 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:48:40am |
re: #24 publicityStunted
re: #20 Sergey Romanov
One could say a person with a severe mental illness is bound to act out at some point, but I do believe a hate-charged atmosphere (be it racism, antisemitism, anti-goverment sentiment, etc) has an influence on their chosen targets.
“According to an old friend, Bryce Tierney, Loughner had exhibited a longstanding dislike for Gabrielle Giffords, a Blue Dog Democrat, stating that women should not hold positions of power.[29][30] He repeatedly derided Giffords as a “fake”. This belief intensified after he attended her August 25, 2007 event when she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer his question: “What is government if words have no meaning?”[15] (Loughner kept Giffords’ form letter, which thanked him for attending the 2007 event, in the same box as an envelope which was scrawled with phrases like “die bitch” and “assassination plans have been made”.)[31] Zane Gutierrez, a friend, later told the New York Times that Loughner’s anger would also “well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.”[30]”
| 28 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:49:02am |
re: #17 Sergey Romanov
… And blaming Republicans for Utoya is ridiculous.
Disagree. The Pima County Republican Party raffled off a Glock after the shooting. Far from me just blaming them, the Republicans took credit for it.
| 29 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:50:18am |
re: #28 Olsonist
Disagree. The Pima County Republican Party raffled off a Glock after the shooting. Far from me just blaming them, the Republicans took credit for it.
Yeah I remember that. I respect arms ownership but there is a subset in this country that takes it to fucked up extremes where it borders on fetishism rather than gun ownership.
| 30 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:50:40am |
re: #28 Olsonist
Disagree. The Pima County Republican Party raffled off a Glock after the shooting. Far from me just blaming them, the Republicans took credit for it.
What BS.
| 31 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:51:50am |
We were quick to kick KT’s ass when he cherrypicked evidence of OWS’ perceived rottenness, but it’s open season for all Republicans, it seems.
| 32 |
Ghost of a Dopefish Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:52:01am |
re: #29 HappyWarrior
Yeah I remember that. I respect arms ownership but there is a subset in this country that takes it to fucked up extremes where it borders on fetishism rather than gun ownership.
“Ooh, baby, that’s a nice … arsenal you’ve got there.”
| 33 |
Charleston Chew Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:53:02am |
re: #24 publicityStunted
re: #20 Sergey Romanov
One could say a person with a severe mental illness is bound to act out at some point, but I do believe a hate-charged atmosphere (be it racism, antisemitism, anti-goverment sentiment, etc) has an influence on their chosen targets.
Agreed. A guy like that is like fire - potential dangerous, but other people have a big influence on determining if someone gets burned.
| 34 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:53:24am |
re: #32 thedopefishlives
“Ooh, baby, that’s a nice … arsenal you’ve got there.”
It’s like a fast food commercial where the guy chooses the new burrito over the hot girl. Yeah…….like that happens in real life.
| 35 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:54:03am |
re: #34 HappyWarrior
Wait! What kind of burrito?
| 36 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:54:46am |
re: #30 Sergey Romanov
I think Olsonist quoted the wrong part of your post - he was referring to Republicans in Arizona auctioning off a glock shortly after the Giffords shooting (when a glock was the same weapon used in said shooting).
| 37 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:54:49am |
re: #33 Charleston Chew
Agreed. A guy like that is like fire - potential dangerous, but other people have a big influence on determining if someone gets burned.
When we’re talking about Loughner’s specific case, there is nothing to indicate that he wouldn’t attempt murdering her regardless of the atmosphere. He hated her at least since 2007 (as well as he hated Bush).
| 38 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:55:05am |
re: #35 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Wait! What kind of burrito?
One that will have your colon wanting to kill you by sundown but in the short run making your tastebuds happy.
| 39 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:55:16am |
re: #31 Sergey Romanov
We were quick to kick KT’s ass when he cherrypicked evidence of OWS’ perceived rottenness, but it’s open season for all Republicans, it seems.
of course….there is simply way too little distinction between individuals and groups
| 40 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:56:11am |
re: #35 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Wait! What kind of burrito?
What kind of girl? A nice Mexican babe could provide a lot of burritos. It’s a complicated dilemma.
| 41 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:56:14am |
I am not blaming Republicans for the shootings. I just wish they’d be more understanding of their rhetoric. If Palin or whomever had said after the shooting. You know maybe I went a little too far with my rhetoric. I’d respect that. You know the personal responsibility that conservatives are always claiming they have and liberals lack.
| 42 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:56:39am |
re: #36 publicityStunted
I think Olsonist quoted the wrong part of your post - he was referring to Republicans in Arizona auctioning off a glock shortly after the Giffords shooting (when a glock was the same weapon used in said shooting).
Hmm. Maybe. Utoya and the Glock indeed do not mesh.
| 43 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:56:46am |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
What kind of girl? A nice Mexican babe could provide a lot of burritos. It’s a complicated dilemma.
And now we know why my Dad went to Mexico for three months in the early 70’s :).
| 44 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 11:59:41am |
Oh and KT hot chick for me would probably be an Eastern European one. Dark brown hair, blue eyes, fairly tan but not Jersey Shore like, sexy accent, and one that can can have fun and have a serious conversation with but enough about my dream woman.
| 45 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:00:58pm |
re: #44 HappyWarrior
Oh and KT hot chick for me would probably be an Eastern European one. Dark brown hair, blue eyes, fairly tan but not Jersey Shore like, sexy accent, and one that can can have fun and have a serious conversation with but enough about my dream woman.
and here I thought you my dream woman…silly internet
| 46 |
Charleston Chew Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:01:24pm |
re: #37 Sergey Romanov
When we’re talking about Loughner’s specific case, there is nothing to indicate that he wouldn’t attempt murdering her regardless of the atmosphere. He hated her at least since 2007 (as well as he hated Bush).
Isn’t that just all the more reason people shouldn’t be using violent rhetoric?
Isn’t the fact that fire is inherently dangerous all the more reason to not go around throwing fire-accelerants on people?
| 47 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:01:28pm |
re: #42 Sergey Romanov
Hmm. Maybe. Utoya and the Glock indeed do not mesh.
Pima Co. GOP Plans To Raffle Same Type Gun Used to Shoot Rep. Giffords
Forget quilts and cookies, the Pima County Republican Party in Arizona is auctioning off a handgun at their next party fundraiser. And not just any handgun, the same series of pistol that was used in the Tucson shooting of Rep. Gabriel Giffords in January.
Extreme bad taste and stupidity at best.
| 48 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:01:36pm |
re: #42 Sergey Romanov
It was the Arizona shooting and the Glock. Not the Utoya shooting.
| 49 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:01:48pm |
Pulling for the Ravens, but suspect they’re about to be picked apart by Brady.
| 50 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:03:02pm |
re: #45 albusteve
and here I thought you my dream woman…silly internet
A six foot guy is your dream woman?
| 51 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:03:06pm |
re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Pulling for the Ravens, but suspect they’re about to be picked apart by Brady.
then again, maybe Ray Lewis will knock him out
| 52 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:03:30pm |
re: #46 Charleston Chew
Isn’t that just all the more reason people shouldn’t be using violent rhetoric?
Isn’t the fact that fire is inherently dangerous all the more reason to not go around throwing fire-accelerants on people?
Dude, nobody argues against that. The eliminationist rhetoric from socons is despicable. But it doesn’t mean it causes every shooting, even when the shooting is by a far-right wacko. It may cause such a shooting, of course.
| 53 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:03:39pm |
| 54 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:03:50pm |
re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Pulling for the Ravens, but suspect they’re about to be picked apart by Brady.
I dunno. I hate both teams equally perhaps Ravens a little more so but if they use Rice smart, they have a shot. But then again Flacco is the most inconsistent QB ever.
| 55 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:04:15pm |
re: #51 albusteve
I’m fascinated by the idea of a Super-Bowl with brothers coaching against each other.
| 56 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:04:34pm |
| 57 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:05:33pm |
re: #47 publicityStunted
Pima Co. GOP Plans To Raffle Same Type Gun Used to Shoot Rep. Giffords
Extreme bad taste and stupidity at best.
Of course.
If there is a causal link to the shooting here, it’s through the “easy gun” culture, cultivated by conservatives.
| 58 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:06:06pm |
re: #47 publicityStunted
Pima Co. GOP Plans To Raffle Same Type Gun Used to Shoot Rep. Giffords
Extreme bad taste and stupidity at best.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that Pima County Republicans were unaware of the context there. Pima County is one of the most far right districts in Arizona. It was a deliberate FU to the critics of violent right wing rhetoric.
| 59 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:11:40pm |
By the way, the violent right wing rhetoric has only gotten worse since the Tucson shootings. It’s extremely common now on right wing sites to find comments calling for people to be murdered or lynched.
| 60 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:11:49pm |
In fact, I had Loughner in mind. Sorry but I lost your train of thought when I got to blaming Republicans part. Clearly I do blame them.
I blame them for Oklahoma City. Did Republicans meet in a national caucus and vote in United Nations monitored elections about whether to bomb the Oklahoma City Federal Building? No, they didn’t. But the vicious hate rhetoric common then was in every way like Palin’s use of crosshairs.
So no, blaming Republicans is not ridiculous.
| 61 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:14:33pm |
For example, from yesterday’s post about the racist comments at Fox Nation:
This id iot N woman needs to be hung from a tree as strange fruit. Anyone not understanding me needs to listen to Bessie Smith’s song.
Yes, this person is calling openly for Sheila Jackson Lee to be lynched.
| 62 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:15:04pm |
re: #61 Charles
For example, from yesterday’s post about the racist comments at Fox Nation:
Yes, this person is calling openly for Sheila Jackson Lee to be lynched.
FoxNation reads more like Stormfront everyday.
| 63 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:20:13pm |
re: #61 Charles
For example, from yesterday’s post about the racist comments at Fox Nation:
Yes, this person is calling openly for Sheila Jackson Lee to be lynched.
There was a comment there that referred to her someday ‘taking two in the head’. I reported that one. Actually, I reported about twenty comments before I got bored.
| 64 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:21:32pm |
re: #60 Olsonist
You could blame them for this specific attempt if there was something besides correlation (which alone is not causation). Remember Adkisson, who was pretty explicit that he was targeting liberals, and who wanted to kill 100 people from Bernie Goldberg’s book? That was a causal link, regardless of Adkisson’s sanity.
Here, the far-right anti-govt worldview nurtured Loughner’s insanity (or vice versa), but there are no specific ties to mainstream GOP or their rhetoric. The vague far-right ideas + insanity caused Loughner’s hate towards Giffords (and George W. Bush, who would also likely be a target, if opportunity presented itself) back in 2007 (or earlier). So Palin’s map can hardly be blamed for this particular instance.
It doesn’t mean such vile rhetoric cannot move other shooters. Which is why Palin was rightly called out, and which is why R’s should be continually called out on it. But every single “ideological” shooting cannot be blamed on R’s.
| 65 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:22:02pm |
This is what the Fox Nation commenter meant by “Strange Fruit:”
| 66 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:23:45pm |
(And no, I’m no more a Republican apologist than I am an OWS apologist.)
| 67 |
simoom Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:25:17pm |
re: #59 Charles
… calling for people to be murdered or lynched.
Robert Benzie, Queen’s Park Bureau Chief for the Toronto Star, tweeting during the Gingrich victory speech:
[Link: twitter.com…]
Someone just yelled “string him up” when Gingrich mentioned Obama. In a room full of white folks in a southern state. Insanity. #scprimary
(I need to look around and see if anyone else mentions it for confirmation’s sake)
| 68 |
Charleston Chew Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:25:25pm |
re: #61 Charles
For example, from yesterday’s post about the racist comments at Fox Nation:
This id iot N woman needs to be hung from a tree as strange fruit. Anyone not understanding me needs to listen to Bessie Smith’s song.
Yes, this person is calling openly for Sheila Jackson Lee to be lynched.
Apparently musical satire is not much of a weapon against such people. “I love that song. It’s about one of my favorite things: lynchin’!”
| 69 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:26:15pm |
re: #68 Charleston Chew
Apparently music satire is not much of a weapon against such people. “I love that song. It’s about one of my favorite things: lynchin’!”
So hilarious.///
| 70 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:26:28pm |
re: #64 Sergey Romanov
Indeed. The problem demonstrated by Laughner is not that violent rhetoric caused the shooting, but that the kind of far-right libertarianism that he espoused is acceptable in the right-wing. Even his hatred of Bush— there’s plenty of Ron Paul Republicans who hate Bush.
| 71 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:28:14pm |
re: #70 Obdicut
Indeed. The problem demonstrated by Laughner is not that violent rhetoric caused the shooting, but that the kind of far-right libertarianism that he espoused is acceptable in the right-wing. Even his hatred of Bush— there’s plenty of Ron Paul Republicans who hate Bush.
Yeah Bush is a liberal in many far right corners.
| 72 |
simoom Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:32:10pm |
re: #67 simoom
Oops. I hadn’t read Charles’ previous post yet, which had already mentioned this.
Derp :P.
| 73 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:37:22pm |
re: #67 simoom
I’ve been looking for a video of this …
| 74 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:38:33pm |
Useful:
| 75 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:43:07pm |
re: #73 Charles
It kind of sounds too easy to make up and get twitters. It’s believable.
| 76 |
calochortus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:44:06pm |
OT: The Congressional Republicans just finished up their annual retreat and they will be going forward with great party unity and laser-like focus on the economic issues affecting their constituents.
According to Reuters,
Boehner proclaimed to reporters that in 2012, “our focus will be on the economy and jobs.”
And this time they really, really mean it!
| 77 |
Skeetghazi Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:45:43pm |
re: #75 Obdicut
It kind of sounds too easy to make up and get twitters. It’s believable.
Totally believable. As I’ve said, I’ve spent time in SC.
| 78 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:48:20pm |
re: #76 calochortus
OT: The Congressional Republicans just finished up their annual retreat and they will be going forward with great party unity and laser-like focus on the economic issues affecting their constituents.
According to Reuters,
And this time they really, really mean it!
I’m sure we’ll be hearing about how we need to get rid of NPR and Planned Parenthood in no time.
| 79 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:48:24pm |
Here it is — listen at 9:08 (I set the start time for 9:00):
It does sound like “string ‘em up.”
| 80 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:50:05pm |
Yeah sounds like string him up to me too. Asshole and a coward too.
| 81 |
calochortus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:50:06pm |
re: #78 HappyWarrior
That will absolutely fix the economy!
| 82 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:52:12pm |
re: #81 calochortus
That will absolutely fix the economy!
Yep. So will legislation that coddles the wealthiest businesses in the country too.
| 83 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:52:34pm |
re: #79 Charles
(Just noticed: “start time” doesn’t seem to be working in the Spy.)
| 84 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:52:44pm |
re: #77 Stanley Sea
Totally believable. As I’ve said, I’ve spent time in SC.
so have I…openly racist and for a northern boy, very awkward at times…I like SC, beautiful state but some citizens there are just off the scale, living in the past
| 86 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:53:57pm |
I am not really shocked either. This is the state where McCain was attacked for having an adoptive Bangladeshi daughter which was disgusting.
| 87 |
Ghost of Alouette Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:55:33pm |
Holy crap!
My son found a photo of me from 1969.
That’s a Gibson J-45! Do you know how much it would be worth today!
The fretboard & tuning pegs were destroyed by bad airline handling, even though they paid to repair it, it never sounded the same. I sold it in 1974. :(
| 88 |
calochortus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:55:41pm |
re: #79 Charles
Yes, it does sound like “string him up”. I suppose I’ve lead a sheltered life here in liberal land, but I can’t believe someone would say that in public in 2012.
| 89 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:56:41pm |
re: #88 calochortus
Yes, it does sound like “string him up”. I suppose I’ve lead a sheltered life here in liberal land, but I can’t believe someone would say that in public in 2012.
Know your audience. He probably felt he could say it without anyone calling him out.
| 90 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:56:59pm |
re: #87 Alouette
Nice!
| 91 |
Ghost of Alouette Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:58:34pm |
Air France breaks guitars. :(
| 92 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:58:58pm |
re: #87 Alouette
What’s up with the peace sign, hippie?!?
| 93 |
calochortus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:59:09pm |
re: #89 HappyWarrior
Know your audience. He probably felt he could say it without anyone calling him out.
I’m sure he did-and I’m sure it was an accurate assessment-that is what I find shocking. Not that racists exist, but that there are places where it is a perfectly acceptable thing.
| 94 |
TedStriker Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:59:55pm |
| 95 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:00:39pm |
re: #87 Alouette
Holy crap!
My son found a photo of me from 1969.
That’s a Gibson J-45! Do you know how much it would be worth today!
The fretboard & tuning pegs were destroyed by bad airline handling, even though they paid to repair it, it never sounded the same. I sold it in 1974. :(
as much as $3500….
[Link: vintage-guitars.blogspot.com…]
| 96 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:01:19pm |
re: #93 calochortus
I’m sure he did-and I’m sure it was an accurate assessment-that is what I find shocking. Not that racists exist, but that there are places where it is a perfectly acceptable thing.
Right, me too. In most places you say something like that and you get a what the fuck are you saying but in that audience it seems lynching jokes directed at a black president are hilarious.
| 97 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:01:22pm |
| 98 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:07:11pm |
Why is that shocking?
re: #93 calochortus
I’m sure he did-and I’m sure it was an accurate assessment-that is what I find shocking. Not that racists exist, but that there are places where it is a perfectly acceptable thing.
| 100 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:09:32pm |
re: #64 Sergey Romanov
So we agree on the correlation. We can work on the causation.
Here, the far-right anti-govt worldview nurtured Loughner’s insanity (or vice versa), but there are no specific ties to mainstream GOP or their rhetoric. ….
It doesn’t mean such vile rhetoric cannot move other shooters. Which is why Palin was rightly called out, and which is why R’s should be continually called out on it. But every single “ideological” shooting cannot be blamed on R’s.
I think you are absolving Republicans as a whole for the actions of their extreme. Nice church going FiCons can’t be held responsible for the acts of the fringe. I don’t think I’m being unfair with that summary even if it sounds like plausible deniability to me.
What I want to look at is the idea of Clean hands. The trouble is that the Republicans are getting something out of their enraged wacko dispensable base. Their violent rhetoric is firing up their base. It’s clear from events and from postings on Fox Nation that the Loughners are not alone. The Republican national leadership and their media allies could come down hard on their own extremism, but they don’t. So it’s really just a wink and a nod.
David Brooks on Loughner:
All of this evidence, which is easily accessible on the Internet, points to the possibility that Loughner may be suffering from a mental illness like schizophrenia.
…
I have no love for Sarah Palin, and I like to think I’m committed to civil discourse. But the political opportunism occasioned by this tragedy has ranged from the completely irrelevant to the shamelessly irresponsible.
Yeah, right.
Actually, Rush Limbaugh was worse.
| 101 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:10:20pm |
re: #98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Why is that shocking?
because it’s unexpected for some folks…certainly if you’ve been victimized your whole life, it might seem normal
| 102 |
calochortus Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:11:11pm |
re: #98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Why is that shocking?
Because I’d like to think that racism was sufficiently socially unacceptable that it wouldn’t be aired in a public forum.
| 103 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:12:06pm |
re: #100 Olsonist
So we agree on the correlation. We can work on the causation.
I think you are absolving Republicans as a whole for the actions of their extreme. Nice church going FiCons can’t be held responsible for the acts of the fringe. I don’t think I’m being unfair with that summary even if it sounds like plausible deniability to me.
What I want to look at is the idea of Clean hands. The trouble is that the Republicans are getting something out of their enraged wacko dispensable base. Their violent rhetoric is firing up their base. It’s clear from events and from postings on Fox Nation that the Loughners are not alone. The Republican national leadership and their media allies could come down hard on their own extremism, but they don’t. So it’s really just a wink and a nod.
David Brooks on Loughner:
Yeah, right.
Actually, Rush Limbaugh was worse.
Limbaugh really is another disgusting individual. Full support of the Democratic party? And yet Republican leaders continue to kiss this guy’s ass. Shows they don’t really give a damn what he says.
| 104 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:22:22pm |
re: #79 Charles
Aside: how do you link to specific timestamps in YouTube videos? I’ve tried appending #t=1m30s (etc) to the URL and it doesn’t seem to work at LGF.
Anyway:
Every time I try to wrap my mind around the assertion that Barack Obama is some kind of “radical”, I feel like I understand what a divide-by-zero error feels like to a computer. It just doesn’t map onto reality at all, and I feel flabbergasted that error handling for it nneds to be built into the Matrix, lest there be societal unhandled exceptions.
| 105 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:23:07pm |
re: #100 Olsonist
I think you are absolving Republicans as a whole for the actions of their extreme.
Yes. Republicans are too varied to be collectively blamed for the extremists among their midst. I won’t blame 50 million people or so for the deeds of individuals.
Of course, there are people in the leadership and punditry to be blamed, when it comes to hate speech. But again, in the case of Loughner no discernible direct link has been demonstrated to the conservative hate speech. Unlike in the case of Adkisson.
| 106 |
Ghost of Alouette Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:23:28pm |
re: #95 albusteve
as much as $3500…
[Link: vintage-guitars.blogspot.com…]
Or as little as $1500.
Well I got a wedding to pay for now so it will have to go on the “wish list” of “stuff to buy before I die.”
| 107 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:24:03pm |
| 108 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:25:50pm |
re: #105 Sergey Romanov
Yes. Republicans are too varied to be collectively blamed for the extremists among their midst. I won’t blame 50 million people or so for the deeds of individuals.
Of course, there are people in the leadership and punditry to be blamed, when it comes to hate speech. But again, in the case of Loughner no discernible direct link has been demonstrated to the conservative hate speech. Unlike in the case of Adkisson.
well said…it’s about time
this collective guilt thing drives me crazy, then they get lumped into a geographical region…it never ends
| 109 |
sagehen Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:27:06pm |
re: #87 Alouette
Holy crap!
My son found a photo of me from 1969.
That’s a Gibson J-45! Do you know how much it would be worth today!
The fretboard & tuning pegs were destroyed by bad airline handling, even though they paid to repair it, it never sounded the same. I sold it in 1974. :(
| 110 |
sagehen Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:29:29pm |
re: #109 sagehen
I should have continued in the thread, I see you already know that one…
| 111 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:29:38pm |
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
| 112 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:29:40pm |
re: #106 Alouette
Or as little as $1500.
Well I got a wedding to pay for now so it will have to go on the “wish list” of “stuff to buy before I die.”
I’ve owned two cars that were worth many times what I thought because I was ignorant how rare they were at the time….I had a ‘66 SS Nova, one of 226 made….it was worth a mint, but I didn’t understand the history and dumped it….same with a ‘69 SS Chevelle I had…it was one of just a couple thousand with that drive train….live and learn
| 113 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:30:21pm |
re: #104 negativ
Aside: how do you link to specific timestamps in YouTube videos? I’ve tried appending #t=1m30s (etc) to the URL and it doesn’t seem to work at LGF.
The right way to do it here is to add “&start=xx” to the video URL when you paste it into a comment, where ‘xx’ is the number of seconds from the start.
| 114 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:30:54pm |
re: #87 Alouette
Holy crap!
My son found a photo of me from 1969.
That’s a Gibson J-45! Do you know how much it would be worth today!
The fretboard & tuning pegs were destroyed by bad airline handling, even though they paid to repair it, it never sounded the same. I sold it in 1974. :(
That’s awesome!
| 115 |
Varek Raith Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:30:55pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
What the fuck.
Sheesh.
| 117 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:32:38pm |
| 118 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:34:15pm |
re: #116 Charles
Typical.
Once back when I was friendly with him he was asking for my address to send me a fossil or something. I’m very glad I declined.
| 119 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:35:13pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
have not heard from him myself
| 120 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:36:36pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Ugh. He is actually among their FP posters? WTF?
| 121 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:39:23pm |
re: #120 Sergey Romanov
It’s a place where people defend genocide. It’s not exactly a bastion of reason and civility.
| 122 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:40:15pm |
re: #121 Obdicut
It’s a place where people defend genocide. It’s not exactly a bastion of reason and civility.
I just didn’t expect it from Walter. I guess you never know.
| 123 |
zora Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:42:53pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
could it be a walter sock puppet?
| 124 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:44:16pm |
re: #105 Sergey Romanov
Yes. Republicans are too varied to be collectively blamed for the extremists among their midst. I won’t blame 50 million people or so for the deeds of individuals.
So when the Pauls and the Reagans talk about States Rights and the Cantors entertain Birtherism, these are just the actions of individuals acting, you know, individually. When posters on Fox Nation call for lynchings, these are just the actions of individuals acting, you know, individually. The party on the other hand is all about fiscal conservativism, a strong defense and family values. Right?
By your standard, are groups ever responsible for their individuals? Or are the actions of their individuals conveniently dispensable?
| 125 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:45:01pm |
re: #122 Sergey Romanov
I just didn’t expect it from Walter. I guess you never know.
He was one of the meaner, more spiteful bullies I’ve ever seen on the web. But of course, it might not be him, but just someone stirring shit.
At any rate, I’ve exhausted my interest in it.
| 126 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:45:44pm |
re: #119 albusteve
have not heard from him myself
Same here
2 unanswered e-mails months ago after a few back and forth ones
At that time, it was nothing earth shattering. I was gib=ving him a few names for job leads, he was inviting me to visit if I was going to Denver on business as I was expecting at the time
| 127 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:48:02pm |
re: #124 Olsonist
Republicans can be completely blamed for the racist, stupid, hostile, anti-women, anti-science legislation that gets passed by their elected officials. But that’s not the same thing as blaming them for the acts of the extremists.
The GOP has a lot of downright racism out front and center. Does that mean they had anything to do with inspiring the white supremacist dude who tried to bomb the MLK parade? I doubt it. To that guy, the GOP is a namby-pamby bunch of race-mixers.
What the GOP is right now is more than bad enough. The policies they support are phenomenally bad for the country.
| 128 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:48:41pm |
re: #124 Olsonist
Are Muslims responsible for 9/11?
| 129 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:50:04pm |
| 130 |
Skeetghazi Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:50:49pm |
re: #99 albusteve
Flacco is outplaying Brady bigtime…
I’m sure you’ve heard the skateboard story. But for those who missed: Flacco’s neighbor saw him on a skateboard in front of his house, called the team and said “are we trying to win a playoff or not??!!”
| 131 |
Skeetghazi Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:53:30pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
What an ass.
| 133 |
Skeetghazi Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:54:55pm |
re: #117 Killgore Trout
It’s a really shitty thing to do.
He’s been stewing for a looooong time. What, 8 mos? Damn shitty.
| 134 |
Skeetghazi Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:55:38pm |
re: #118 Killgore Trout
Once back when I was friendly with him he was asking for my address to send me a fossil or something. I’m very glad I declined.
I didn’t. But I moved. Wow
| 135 |
TedStriker Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:57:00pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
To think, I held up Walter in somewhat high regard, even after he was booted (and didn’t come back after the block was lifted).
If that is truly Walter (and not a sock), fuck him and the rest of the Stalkers in their earholes.
| 136 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:57:47pm |
I never knew him that well. He came across as a jerk to me.
| 137 |
M. Dubious Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:57:57pm |
I wrote Walter a nice, short mail right after he left and said I missed his snark and asked if he was thinking about returning, or something to that effect. He’s more than welcome to post that.
| 138 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:58:47pm |
re: #135 talon_262
To think, I held up Walter in somewhat high regard, even after he was booted (and didn’t come back after the block was lifted).
Fuck him and the rest of the Stalkers in their earholes.
the verdict is in
| 139 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:59:09pm |
| 140 |
RadicalModerate Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:59:30pm |
By the way, I’d avoid reading the commentary threads over at FoxNews. Those people are describing the Giffords resignation as a victory for their side.
| 141 |
TedStriker Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:00:23pm |
| 142 |
Linden Arden Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:00:32pm |
This is a very sad conclusion for me.
Gabrielle was such a role model. A gun lover and Harley enthusiast with a sense of perspective and modernity. She broke convention and worked her ass off for her constituents. I can’t name ten more like her in Congress.
She was a real liberal. I am proud of her.
| 143 |
TedStriker Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:00:43pm |
re: #140 RadicalModerate
By the way, I’d avoid reading the commentary threads over at FoxNews. Those people are describing the Giffords resignation as a victory for their side.
I knew they would…
| 144 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:01:06pm |
| 145 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:01:31pm |
re: #133 Stanley Sea
He’s been stewing for a looong time. What, 8 mos? Damn shitty.
I’m just not the least bit surprised, it’s entirely within character, the dude has cancer of the soul. I’d strongly suspected that he was Zeus Crankypants for a long time, his writing style really hasn’t changed at all.
It’s hard for me to feel too sorry for people who’s correspondence he’s sharing. I mean, I feel a little bit sorry for them, but it’s not like he wasn’t throwing up red flags all over the place. Treat it as a learning opportunity.
| 146 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:01:59pm |
re: #144 Sergey Romanov
He gave a login and password. I guess I’ll check now.
Ayep. It fits. It’s him.
| 147 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:03:14pm |
| 149 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:06:02pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Just a heads up: Walter is over at the stalker blog posting snippets from private emails LGF members have sent them. They’re playing “Guess who sent this one?”
Those who still keep in touch with him should keep this in mind.
I’m unsurprised.
| 150 |
TedStriker Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:07:48pm |
re: #147 albusteve
your mission…go find out, it’s that important
Looks like gdf and Sergey have more or less confirmed it; besides, I’m at work and I don’t want to trip the Barracuda filter by trying to peek over there from here.
Has he betrayed your confidence yet, as he apparently has with other Lizards?
| 151 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:18:28pm |
re: #128 Sergey Romanov
Excellent question. Full marks. What’s the 9/11 equivalent of Godwin-ing?
Muslims as a whole are responsible for extremism within their ranks. To me, groups have a responsibility for policing own their members. The cultural affinity that a group has allows and requires this. To the extent that Muslims as a whole have disparaged extremism within their ranks, bravo.
If you’re going to absolve Muslims and Republicans, why stop there? All actions are individual. America doesn’t bear a guilt for slavery. It was the South. No, it wasn’t really the South, it was certain Southerners. And there were abolitionists in the South as well. Blah blah blah. The argument writes itself.
Leaders and the mushy middle have to come down on extremists. So I really admired Ronald Reagan when he came down hard on David Duke. I liked it even more when Nancy campaigned against Oliver North.
| 152 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:21:20pm |
re: #151 Olsonist
How could moderate Muslims, who the radicals would like to kill, police the radicals?
| 153 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:25:00pm |
re: #146 Sergey Romanov
Ayep. It fits. It’s him.
When I joined LGF, I was creeped out by his behavior almost immediately. There was something truly repellent about the way he acted and the things he said (like calling a female LGF member a “streetwalker” - can’t link to the comment, as it’s since been deleted, but that was the exact word he used). It’s why I never engaged him or responded to his posts, and it looks like my gut instinct’s been vindicated.
| 154 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:25:53pm |
re: #151 Olsonist
You fail to consider the reverse side. The Americans are responsible? The Westerners are responsible? The humans are responsible? Living things are responsible? The continuum goes both ways.
It’s not an either/or issue. Some Americans are more responsible than others for extremism. Some Republicans are more responsible than others for extremism. That’s in general. In each case you have to look at context to delineate how wide the circle of the responsible is. There’s no general recipe.
But in this particular case of Loughner there just is no specific evidence that Republicans are to blame. Loughner was not a Republican, by the way. He was an independent. Should we blame the independents?
| 155 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:27:08pm |
re: #154 Sergey Romanov
Should we blame the indepedents?
All of them? And if not, in which direction should we go!?!?
//
| 156 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:36:57pm |
re: #154 Sergey Romanov
Sergey, first, I appreciate the argument. It’s kind of one of the reasons I post here. No, I don’t expect agreement and yes, it has forced me to think about things a little differently.
But I go back to one of my original points. If the Republicans are getting something out their extremist wing, and I claim that they are, then as a group they do not have clean hands and they are bearing a collective guilt. I’m claiming that they are getting something, a motivated if violent base.
Obdi, I understand that moderate Muslims have a problem on their hands. But it’s their problem. They can deal with it. They have to deal with it. Us dealing with it hasn’t worked out so.
| 157 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:39:04pm |
re: #156 Olsonist
Obdi, I understand that moderate Muslims have a problem on their hands. But it’s their problem. They can deal with it. They have to deal with it. Us dealing with it hasn’t worked out so.
How? How does a moderate Muslim living in Ann Arbor possibly affect the behavior of a jihadi 9000 miles away?
| 158 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:41:10pm |
re: #156 Olsonist
Moderate Muslims actually aren’t responsible for Jihadis. I find it good when they act against Jihadis. I think it helps them when they act against Jihadis. But I don’t think they’re responsible for Jihadis’ doings by merely sharing a religion with them.
| 159 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:47:51pm |
re: #158 Sergey Romanov
Well, we disagree.
I was at an Irish bar on Clement Street in SF once. They had a tip jar for the Belfast Children’s Retirement Fund. I never went back. I was not willing to support IRA terrorism 5000 miles away. Or I could have just bought a beer.
| 160 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:48:47pm |
re: #159 Olsonist
Well, we disagree.
I was at an Irish bar on Clement Street in SF once. They had a tip jar for the Belfast Children’s Retirement Fund. I never went back. I was not willing to support IRA terrorism 5000 miles away. Or I could have just bought a beer.
Oh, now the Irish everywhere are responsible for IRA and IRA supporters, regardless of what they think of IRA and IRA supporters.
| 161 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:52:14pm |
re: #160 Sergey Romanov
Oh, now the Irish everywhere are responsible for IRA and IRA supporters, regardless of what they think of IRA and IRA supporters.
Did I say that? First, I’m IrishAm but you wouldn’t have known. Second, I said I never went back to that bar on Clement Street. And yes, that fucking bar was responsible for fucking IRA terrorism. It was collecting money to send to kill people in Belfast.
| 162 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:53:44pm |
re: #161 Olsonist
Did I say that? First, I’m IrishAm but you wouldn’t have known. Second, I said I never went back to that bar on Clement Street. And yes, that fucking bar was responsible for fucking IRA terrorism. It was collecting money to send to kill people in Belfast.
Then I don’t know why you brought up that bar. Your example proved nothing in relation to #158.
| 163 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jan 22, 2012 2:57:47pm |
re: #161 Olsonist
Did I say that? First, I’m IrishAm but you wouldn’t have known. Second, I said I never went back to that bar on Clement Street. And yes, that fucking bar was responsible for fucking IRA terrorism. It was collecting money to send to kill people in Belfast.
What is the moderate muslim equivalent of not going back to that bar in this analogy, and how have you determined that they’re not already doing this? It seems to me that not going to a bar is a rather passive action, not requiring anything of you than simply not patronizing an establishment you determined was in financial support of terrorism.
| 164 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:01:22pm |
re: #162 Sergey Romanov
It was an example of the individual’s responsibility to the group. Obdi wondered what a Muslim in Ann Arbor is required to do. Not living there and not being Muslim I don’t really know. But I did know what I was required to do in a bar on Clement.
Done with that question. Back to mine. How are Republicans to be absolved of a collective responsibility if they are in fact getting something out of the extremism of the extremists?
| 165 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:03:43pm |
re: #164 Olsonist
But some aren’t. Some are seeing their agenda completely hijacked. Not all Republicans have the same goals, so they can’t all benefit from the extremists.
| 166 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:05:43pm |
re: #164 Olsonist
Nobody argued that an individual cannot be responsible for others’ extremism if (s)he actively supports it (for example). Therefore your bar example is neither here, nor there.
Also, you return to the general question of Republicans and extremism, but ignore the specific case of Loughner, who was not even a Republican. And it’s Loughner we’re talking about.
| 167 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:13:58pm |
re: #166 Sergey Romanov
Nobody argued that an individual cannot be responsible for others’ extremism if (s)he actively supports it (for example).
We’re getting a little closer. Definitely an individual would be responsible if they supported it. If I laughed and tossed a buck into the tip jar, I’d definitely be responsible. Unquestionably. If I gave something.
But what if I got something? Say, for example, more political power. Would I be responsible for that terrorism? I didn’t do anything for it. Would my hands be clean.
| 168 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:19:50pm |
re: #167 Olsonist
Of course you would not be in any way responsible, no more than Johnson was responsible for Kennedy’s assassination.
| 169 |
Olsonist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:23:16pm |
re: #168 Sergey Romanov
Other than basic humanity I wasn’t aware of any membership shared between Johnson and Oswald. I suppose both were male and right handed.
| 170 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 22, 2012 3:25:30pm |
re: #169 Olsonist
Other than basic humanity I wasn’t aware of any membership shared between Johnson and Oswald. I suppose both were male and right handed.
Exactly.
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 5:15:17pm |
re: #140 RadicalModerate
By the way, I’d avoid reading the commentary threads over at FoxNews. Those people are describing the Giffords resignation as a victory for their side.
Well, that’s super-disturbing. There are a lot of people I’d like to see removed from the House. By LOSING THE NEXT ELECTION, not by BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD BY A LUNATIC. There’s a difference. A big one. Jesus.
| 172 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 22, 2012 5:17:09pm |
re: #159 Olsonist
Well, we disagree.
I was at an Irish bar on Clement Street in SF once. They had a tip jar for the Belfast Children’s Retirement Fund. I never went back. I was not willing to support IRA terrorism 5000 miles away. Or I could have just bought a beer.
Ireland’s 32? No, wait, they’re over on Geary.
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Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
