Early Voting Gives Romney a 21-Point Lead in Florida

Get used to saying “Romney the nominee”
Politics • Views: 29,098

The Florida primary may already be over.

Tampa, Florida (CNN) - It’s primary day in the Sunshine State, but more than 600,000 people have already voted in Florida’s Republican presidential contest. And a new public opinion poll indicates that the ballots already cast may help former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney take the 50 delegates up for grabs in Florida’s winner take all primary.

Early voting began statewide ten days ago, and according to figures released Monday afternoon by the Florida Department of State, which runs the division of elections, 293,760 people had already cast ballots. And according to the state, more than 531,000 people requested and were sent absentee ballots, and 338,753 were returned and received by Florida officials.

Add it all together and more than 632,000 votes were already cast before primary day. To put it in perspective, that’s more than the 601,577 who voted in the South Carolina primary, and far outpaces the combined 360,000 that took part in the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucuses.

And according to an American Research Group survey released Tuesday morning, 36% of people questioned said they already voted, and among those, Romney led former House Speaker Newt Gingrich 51% to 29%, with former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania at 12% and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas at 10%.

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190 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:29:22am

Gingrich promised to continue no matter what. And that's good. The more wingnut fur flies now, the better for the general elections.

2 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:30:32am

Romney will be the nominee and the establishment will be happy but the base and activists will not. And when Romney likely loses, they will convince themselves that the problem was that they needed someone more right wing.

3 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:34:37am

I eagerly await the Freeper head explosions when Romney wins in Florida tonight, and when he starts to bury Newt in the remaining primaries.

I should stock up on more popcorn. It's going to be fun.

4 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:35:24am

Keep in mind: Romney has one only one state so far: New Hampshire. Winning a major state would be a big step for him, but Newt is not gonna let go of his leg until he runs out of campaign money.

5 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:36:53am

Classy Newt stays classy in FL. At campaign stop, a Ron Paul supporter was out with a Paul 2012 sign; Newt's people weren't happy, particularly when Newt was seen photographed with the Paul sign in the background?

Newt's peoples' response? Assaulting the guy with the Paul sign.

When Gingrich's bus pulled up, Dillard stood silently holding his sign and watched the news-media horde swamp the candidate. Gingrich stepped down from the bus and made a beeline for Dillard. He stopped in front of Dillard and his sign and parked himself for a round of handshaking and pictures with voters. The placement couldn't have been worse. There was Gingrich, standing with his wife Callista at their first event of the day, and a giant Ron Paul sign floated inches from their crowns.

Noticing the awkward optics, Gingrich aides and security personnel swarmed Dillard, trying to intimidate him into moving. One of Gingrich's security agents stepped in front of him. When Dillard didn't budge, the agent lifted his heeled shoe over Dillard's bare foot and dug the back of it into his skin, twisting it side-to-side like he was stomping out a cigarette. Shocked, Dillard kept his ground and took a picture of the agent with his phone, which was quickly knocked out of his hand. Dillard slipped off his flip-flop to pick up the phone with his foot, and a Gingrich supporter kicked the sandal away.

"Don't kick me!" Dillard said to the man who knocked away his sandal. More members of Gingrich's security retinue approached, shoving their shoulders and chests in front of him.

"Just block him!" a Gingrich campaign aide said. "Everyone step on his toes!"

Gingrich supporters handed a "Newt 2012" yard sign up to the front to put in front of Dillard's Paul sign. The two signs, zipping back and forth inches from Gingrich's head, circled each other in the air like a fighter jets in a dogfight.

When the candidate finished taking pictures with voters, furious Gingrich aides grilled Dillard.

"If we did this to you, you guys would be furious," said an aide before stomping back toward the bus. "They have no class. No class."
As Gingrich pulled away, Dillard looked down at his foot. With the adrenaline pumping, he hadn't noticed the pain, but now it was starting to sink in. A bruise was forming, and there was a cut mark where the security agent had dug in his heel.

6 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:37:47am

And it only cost him $15 million!

The numbers on campaign spending are just obscene this cycle.

7 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:37:52am

I for one love how Newt's allies e.g. Palin, Fred Thompson, and others have made this out to be outside grassroots versus the establishment. I'm sorry guys but Newt was first elected in 1978 in the Carter years and even became Speaker of the House. It's true the establishment doesn't want Newt but Newt himself is as establishment as it gets. It's just an establishment moderate conservative posing as a conservative and a complete horse's ass posing as a human being. Romney I think will emerge a victor ultimately but he's gonna be weakened and a shell of his former self.

8 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:38:21am

re: #5 lawhawk

Classy Newt stays classy in FL. At campaign stop, a Ron Paul supporter was out with a Paul 2012 sign; Newt's people weren't happy, particularly when Newt was seen photographed with the Paul sign in the background?

Newt's peoples' response? Assaulting the guy with the Paul sign.

Union Gingrich thugs.

9 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:38:44am

I think Newt is way passed the honey badger stage.

10 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:40:23am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

It's true the establishment doesn't want Newt but Newt himself is as establishment as it gets.

Seriously. The guy was Speaker of the House and has worked as a lobbyist since leaving office. He's not some unknown political fringe guy.

The establishment doesn't want him because they've worked with him and he's an asshole. It's not because he's some Great Savior of conservatism.

11 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:40:29am

The GOP primary race has done an excellent job at making Obama look dignified and presidential.

12 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:40:38am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

He may not be establishment as being on the ins with the GOP leadership, but he's as insider as insider gets; Congressman, former Speaker (disgraced), lobbyist. Newt's a DC creature for the past 30 years. There's nothing outsider/grass-roots about him. The spin is mind-boggling, but this is due to the TP looking to glom on to any candidate other than Romney (ABM).

13 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:41:04am

re: #11 Alexzander

The GOP primary race has done an excellent job at making Obama look dignified and presidential.

It will do an even better job of it if Newt lives up to his threat of staying in the race until the convention.

14 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:42:03am

re: #13 Lidane

It will do an even better job of it if Newt lives up to his threat of staying in the race until the convention.

Ron Paul will also stay until the convention. There is some light chatter of a possible Newt-Paul truce to defeat Romney if they have more combined delegates.

15 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:42:11am

Too bad he's only getting half of their delegates...

16 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:42:45am

re: #10 Lidane

Seriously. The guy was Speaker of the House and has worked as a lobbyist since leaving office. He's not some unknown political fringe guy.

The establishment doesn't want him because they've worked with him and he's an asshole. It's not because he's some Great Savior of conservatism.

Right, Newt's making himself out to be this outsider is so laughable. Dude you were Speaker of the House when I was a kid- the most powerful legislator in the country. And yeah they hate him because they know he's an ass and full of shit and they're also smart enough to know that Obama would pummel his ass.

17 Alexzander  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:43:17am

re: #15 JasonA

Too bad he's only getting half of their delegates...

It is sort of mixed, because it is only half the delegates - but it is winner-takes-all.

18 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:43:41am

re: #12 lawhawk

He may not be establishment as being on the ins with the GOP leadership, but he's as insider as insider gets; Congressman, former Speaker (disgraced), lobbyist. Newt's a DC creature for the past 30 years. There's nothing outsider/grass-roots about him. The spin is mind-boggling, but this is due to the TP looking to glom on to any candidate other than Romney (ABM).

Of course, it's about ABR-Anyone But Romney but I just love Newt acting like he's an outsider when he I'd say even more so than Romney politically is the ultimate insider.

19 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:50:27am

OT, but they sell Jewelry now on Newegg.com.

20 allegro  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:51:34am

re: #11 Alexzander

The GOP primary race has done an excellent job at making Obama look dignified and presidential.

Obama *is* dignified and presidential.

21 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:53:50am

re: #19 ProLifeLiberal

OT, but they sell Jewelry now on Newegg.com.

Who doesn't want to bling out their tower?

22 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:54:13am
Get used to saying “Romney the nominee”

Can I say "Rominey the nominee"?

23 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:55:56am

re: #22 wrenchwench

Can I say "Rominey the nominee"?

To get the Southern vote, he'll need to be "Rominey the Hominy Nominee."

24 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:56:10am

re: #22 wrenchwench

Can I say "Rominey the nominee"?

Imagine him ordering floor coverings at the Home Depot: "A roll of linoleum for Romney the nominee!"

25 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 11:59:41am

re: #23 Decatur Deb

To get the Southern vote, he'll need to be "Rominey the Hominy Nominee."

I can hardly wait for his homily.

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:00:40pm

His name will live on in ignominy.

27 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:00:58pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

I can hardly wait for his homily.

I'm sure Rominey the Hominy Nominee will intone the homily most solemnly.

28 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:01:34pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

I'm sure Rominey the Hominy Nominee will intone the homily most solemnly.

Will he be serving chutney?

29 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:02:40pm

re: #21 JasonA

It ain't computer bling:

[Link: www.newegg.com...]

30 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:02:50pm

re: #28 oaktree

Will he be serving chutney?

Yes, the kind from Cholmondeley.

31 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:03:08pm

re: #14 Alexzander

Ron Paul will also stay until the convention. There is some light chatter of a possible Newt-Paul truce to defeat Romney if they have more combined delegates.

I would laugh if that happened. Could you imagine the chaos at the RNC if Gingrich and Paul combined delegates? It would be anarchy.

32 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:04:41pm

Romney the nominee.

Today, honoree. Tomorrow, ignominy.

I guarantee.

33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:04:50pm

re: #31 Lidane

I would laugh if that happened. Could you imagine the chaos at the RNC if Gingrich and Paul combined delegates? It would be anarchy.

Or it would open the gate to allow Gozer to enter this dimension.

34 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:05:12pm

re: #31 Lidane

I would laugh if that happened. Could you imagine the chaos at the RNC if Gingrich and Paul combined delegates? It would be anarchy.

Would love to see that haha but I doubt it happens.

35 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:05:29pm

re: #32 Charles

Romney the nominee.

Today, honoree. Tomorrow, ignominy.

I guarantee.

To be followed by book sales.

36 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:05:51pm

re: #31 Lidane

I would laugh if that happened. Could you imagine the chaos at the RNC if Gingrich and Paul combined delegates? It would be anarchy.

Would not happen. They would be too busy stepping on people holding each other's signs behind their respective candidates...

37 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:06:37pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Would love to see that haha but I doubt it happens.

Oh, I seriously doubt it would ever happen. The GOP would cancel their convention for whatever bogus reason before they'd ever allow that kind of insanity to happen on the convention floor and on camera.

Still, in theory it would be amazing to watch.

38 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:06:55pm

re: #35 oaktree

To be followed by book sales.

Sale of stripped-down Barnes and Noble to a Chinese papermaker.

39 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:07:26pm

re: #32 Charles

Romney the nominee.

Today, honoree. Tomorrow, ignominy.

I guarantee.

Then instead of "America the Beautiful" he'll sing Astronomy Domine.

40 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:07:34pm

re: #37 Lidane

Oh, I seriously doubt it would ever happen. The GOP would cancel their convention for whatever bogus reason before they'd ever allow that kind of insanity to happen on the convention floor and on camera.

Still, in theory it would be amazing to watch.

It would be something that's for damned sure.

41 Stanghazi  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:08:54pm

Please please Dog, give me one Floridian soundbite saying, "he said he was gonna give Sarah Palin a position, what does he think we are, crazy???"

42 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:13:59pm

re: #39 wrenchwench

Then instead of "America the Beautiful" he'll sing Astronomy Domine.

[Video]

Nah. That would have been Huntsman's thing. Mittens would probably pull out the Lee Greenwood in a desperate attempt to reach the Tea Party types.

43 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:18:02pm

re: #42 Lidane

Nah. That would have been Huntsman's thing. Mittens would probably pull out the Lee Greenwood in a desperate attempt to reach the Tea Party types.

Sadly, 'Huntsman' doesn't rhyme with anything.

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:18:41pm

re: #39 wrenchwench

Then instead of "America the Beautiful" he'll sing Astronomy Domine.

[Video]

I assume when he wins Wisconsin, he'll give his victory speech in Menominee...

45 Interesting Times  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:18:52pm

re: #41 Stanley Sea

Please please Dog, give me one Floridian soundbite saying, "he said he was gonna give Sarah Palin a position, what does he think we are, crazy???"

Pffft...it's a GOP primary...this is far more typical of the soundbites to expect:

@LouieSloven
Florida voter on @nprpolitics "Romney will do away with ridiculous organizations like the EPA, Muslims, and unions." @LOLGOP #really?

46 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:19:01pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Sadly, 'Huntsman' doesn't rhyme with anything we'd care to explore.

47 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:20:32pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Sadly, 'Huntsman' doesn't rhyme with anything.

Heh.

48 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:20:54pm

re: #44 ralphieboy

I assume when he wins Wisconsin, he'll give his victory speech in Menominee...

Then lock up the American Indian vote by dancing at a Midewewin.

49 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:22:58pm

re: #45 publicityStunted

Pffft...it's a GOP primary...this is far more typical of the soundbites to expect:

How the hell do you "do away" with the EPA, unions, and especially Muslims without turning into an authoritarian hellhole.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:23:17pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Sadly, 'Huntsman' doesn't rhyme with anything.

OTOH, he has this.

51 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:24:30pm

re: #44 ralphieboy

I assume when he wins Wisconsin, he'll give his victory speech in Menominee...

Oh, man. I can't believe I missed that one. I spent my first five years in Menominee Falls.

52 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:24:57pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

How the hell do you "do away" with the EPA, unions, and especially Muslims without turning into an authoritarian hellhole.

Having an authoritarian hellhole is not their worry since they think they will be in charge and be the protected ones sitting at the top of the control pyramid. And that the arbitrary enforcement of the accompanying police state will never target them for examination.

53 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:25:04pm

OT but my trip to NM was awesome. Good times.

54 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:26:07pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

How the hell do you "do away" with the EPA, unions, and especially Muslims without turning into an authoritarian hellhole.

That's just it -- the far right lunatics WANT an authoritarian hellhole, as long as they're the ones in charge.

Muslims, GLBT, minorities, liberals, unions, etc. should all be rounded up and destroyed or deported, according to these atavistic morans. If it takes some sort of Conservative Authority to force it on everyone, so much the better.

55 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:26:18pm

re: #52 oaktree

Was that an actual tweet? Onioned again.

56 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:26:38pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

OT but my trip to NM was awesome. Good times.

And good food?

57 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:27:20pm

re: #56 wrenchwench

And good food?

Yep, had the Laguna Burger on Route 66.

58 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:28:22pm

re: #54 Lidane

That's just it -- the far right lunatics WANT an authoritarian hellhole, as long as they're the ones in charge.

Muslims, GLBT, minorities, liberals, unions, etc. should all be rounded up and destroyed or deported, according to these atavistic morans. If it takes some sort of Conservative Authority to force it on everyone, so much the better.

Yeah I know. It's just so funny that these idiots whine about how Obama's "taken away" their freedom and yet tehy want to take away others and I think they don't see at all the contradictions.

59 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:29:15pm

re: #55 Decatur Deb

Was that an actual tweet? Onioned again.

Comment #45.

Getting to the point that it can not be effectively satired.

60 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:29:49pm

re: #54 Lidane

That's just it -- the far right lunatics WANT an authoritarian hellhole, as long as they're the ones in charge.

Muslims, GLBT, minorities, liberals, unions, etc. should all be rounded up and destroyed or deported, according to these atavistic morans. If it takes some sort of Conservative Authority to force it on everyone, so much the better.

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Cal): I would love a conservative dictatorship

61 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:31:52pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Cal): I would love a conservative dictatorship

When in the hell did they stop teaching Civics in high school?

62 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:31:53pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Cal): I would love a conservative dictatorship

Doesn't work. Bummer but I believe it.

63 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:31:58pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

Romney will be the nominee and the establishment will be happy but the base and activists will not. And when Romney likely loses, they will convince themselves that the problem was that they needed someone more right wing.

100%. And the word salad queen will be the one shouting "I told you so" and leading the GOP off a cliff in 2016.

64 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:32:18pm

‘Everyone step on his toes!’ Gingrich security harasses Ron Paul supporter

Gingrich aides and security personnel swarmed Dillard, trying to intimidate him into moving. One of Gingrich's security agents stepped in front of him. When Dillard didn't budge, the agent lifted his heeled shoe over Dillard's bare foot and dug the back of it into his skin, twisting it side-to-side like he was stomping out a cigarette. Shocked, Dillard kept his ground and took a picture of the agent with his phone, which was quickly knocked out of his hand. Dillard slipped off his flip-flop to pick up the phone with his foot, and a Gingrich supporter kicked the sandal away.

"Don't kick me!" Dillard said to the man who knocked away his sandal. More members of Gingrich's security retinue approached, shoving their shoulders and chests in front of him.

"Just block him!" a Gingrich campaign aide said. "Everyone step on his toes!"

Gingrich supporters handed a "Newt 2012" yard sign up to the front to put in front of Dillard's Paul sign. The two signs, zipping back and forth inches from Gingrich's head, circled each other in the air like a fighter jets in a dogfight.

When the candidate finished taking pictures with voters, furious Gingrich aides grilled Dillard.

"If we did this to you, you guys would be furious," said an aide before stomping back toward the bus. "They have no class. No class."

As Gingrich pulled away, Dillard looked down at his foot. With the adrenaline pumping, he hadn't noticed the pain, but now it was starting to sink in. A bruise was forming, and there was a cut mark where the security agent had dug in his heel.

65 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:32:35pm

re: #63 Petero1818

100%. And the word salad queen will be the one shouting "I told you so" and leading the GOP off a cliff in 2016.

Of course. She's the original Captain Hindsight.

66 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:32:38pm

re: #63 Petero1818

100%. And the word salad queen will be the one shouting "I told you so" and leading the GOP off a cliff in 2016.

A pity, that.

67 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:33:28pm

re: #58 HappyWarrior

Yeah I know. It's just so funny that these idiots whine about how Obama's "taken away" their freedom and yet tehy want to take away others and I think they don't see at all the contradictions.

Makes you wonder if a little experience that might promote some empathy would do them any good.

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."
- Abraham Lincoln

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:34:01pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like we were saying, no chance of these two combining forces against a common enemy. They have met the enemy and they are themselves...

69 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:34:27pm

NASA: Global warming caused mostly by humans

A new NASA study tries to lay to rest the skepticism about climate change, especially vocal this year on the GOP presidential campaign trail. It finds, like other major scientific research, that greenhouse gases generated by human activities -- not changes in solar activity -- are the primary cause of global warming.

NASA researchers updated calculations of the Earth's energy imbalance, which is the difference between the amount of solar energy absorbed by the Earth's surface and the amount returned to space as heat. They found that despite unusually low solar activity between 2005 and 2010, the planet continued to absorb more energy (half a watt more per square meter) than it returned to space during that time period.

"This provides unequivocal evidence that the sun is not the dominant driver of global warming," said James Hansen, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who led the research released Monday.

70 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:34:30pm

re: #6 makeitstop

And it only cost him $15 million!

The numbers on campaign spending are just obscene this cycle.

To think that he financed the whole fucking thing off a Tiffany credit line at 18%. Dude is going to end up broke...or a lobbyist.

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:35:37pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I want a second opinion from a privately-owned space expoloration agency!

/

72 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:36:19pm

re: #71 ralphieboy

I want a second opinion from a privately-owned space expoloration agency!

/

FOX SPACE
We shout into the vacuum, and you hear us anyways!

73 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:36:27pm

re: #67 oaktree

Makes you wonder if a little experience that might promote some empathy would do them any good.

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."
- Abraham Lincoln

I love that Lincoln quote. Simple but to the point. I think it's best used for people who think Abu Ghraib was frat pranks or that waterboarding isn't torture.

74 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:36:55pm

re: #71 ralphieboy

I want a second opinion from a privately-owned space expoloration agency!

/

Koch Aerospace says there is nothing to worry about.
/

75 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:37:36pm

re: #72 oaktree

FOX SPACE
We shout into the vacuum, and you hear us anyways!

In space, no one can hear you derp.

76 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:37:47pm

re: #71 ralphieboy

I want a second opinion from a privately-owned space expoloration agency!

/

You rang?

Image: 559.jpg

77 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:41:00pm

re: #76 Decatur Deb

You rang?

Image: 559.jpg

Unleash the attack mosquito!

78 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:41:04pm

Holy crap, I did not see this one coming.

Saudi Oil Minister Calls Global Warming “Humanity’s Most Pressing Concern”

In a speech at the Middle East and North Africa energy conference in London yesterday, Al-Naimi — who once called renewable energy a “nightmare” — hailed energy efficiency and solar as important investments, global warming “real” and “pressing,” and explained that drilling for oil “does not create many jobs.”

“We know that pumping oil out of the ground does not create many jobs. It does not foster an entrepreneurial spirit, nor does it sharpen critical faculties.”

In the U.S., which is definitely not the Saudi Arabia of oil (that would be Saudi Arabia), there is a major industry campaign underway to convince Americans that drilling for fossil fuels will create over a million jobs in the country. However, assuming we drill virtually everywhere possible in America, credible analysis puts the real figure at a small fraction of that claim.

Even the Saudis, who pump out 12% of the world’s oil, understand that simply drilling for more oil isn’t a long-term economic strategy.

79 Ming  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:42:03pm

I prefer Romney to Gingrich. But that's a pretty low bar.

Romney can spew hatred, but in a cooler style than Gingrich. I think it was in a recent debate that he said "Democrats hate profitable companies."

Romney doesn't like the rest of us, any more than we like him. I don't know if he's truly comfortable only with other Mormons, or maybe only with his own family, or maybe with no one else.

So while I do prefer Romney to Gingrich, and to Palin, I would not feel any consolation if he were to win in November.

80 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:42:52pm

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Holy crap, I did not see this one coming.

Saudi Oil Minister Calls Global Warming “Humanity’s Most Pressing Concern”

This will be spun as SA trying to get us to drill less so as not to get more oil domestically and therefore be less dependent on them. Foreigners trying to screw with what is right and proper for the US to do.

81 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:42:59pm

re: #14 Alexzander

Ron Paul will also stay until the convention. There is some light chatter of a possible Newt-Paul truce to defeat Romney if they have more combined delegates.

Whooey...Katie bar the door if that happens.

82 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:43:46pm

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Holy crap, I did not see this one coming.

Saudi Oil Minister Calls Global Warming “Humanity’s Most Pressing Concern”

How soon before the Harpy and the rest of the derp brigade use that as proof that AGW is a hoax?

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:44:37pm

Is it me, or have some fonts changed? I noticed only now. Looks good.

84 Four More Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:47:10pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pfft. NASA can't do anything right. Except maybe build a moon base.

85 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:47:49pm
86 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:49:24pm

re: #80 oaktree

This will be spun as SA trying to get us to drill less so as not to get more oil domestically and therefore be less dependent on them. Foreigners trying to screw with what is right and proper for the US to do.

Well I think it is fair to say that he is not advocating anything that would hurt SA's interests in the long term. One effect of such as statement is to jump on the alternative sources of energy bandwagon and give it some further credibility. There is no threat to Saudi Oil exports short term or long term. They are what they are. He knows it. He can pay lip service to environmental concerns in the same way BP and Exxon show commercials telling us dolphins would be suicidal if it wasn't for all the good oil companies do for the oceans.

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:50:55pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

NASA: Global warming caused mostly by humans

C'mon, what do NASA eggheads know.

88 Interesting Times  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:53:19pm

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Holy crap, I did not see this one coming.

Saudi Oil Minister Calls Global Warming “Humanity’s Most Pressing Concern”

Perhaps they're scared shitless of running out of another liquid...

89 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:53:25pm

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

NASA: Global warming caused mostly by humans

This is what happens when you move away from Biblical principles and start teaching Darwinism and evolution to impressionable children.

///

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:55:11pm

Here's something about Romney and the kosher kitchen:

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

91 Petero1818  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:55:19pm

re: #85 Dreggas

via Washington Monthly: "Robocall of the year" or Gingrich gets desperate

Can we therefore assume that Newt supports public finding of Halal meals for Muslim seniors? This really is too easy.

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:56:33pm

re: #88 publicityStunted

Perhaps they're scared shitless of running out of another liquid...

Yunno, I often deride the Saudis for being a Feudal Monarchy, but it seems to have at least left them with the ability to think in long-term dynastic terms, and not just short-term profits.

They must see themselves as seriously threatened by climate change.

93 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 12:57:03pm

re: #91 Petero1818

Can we therefore assume that Newt supports public finding of Halal meals for Muslim seniors? This really is too easy.

Only if they are also Holocaust survivors.

/

94 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:00:13pm

re: #88 publicityStunted

Perhaps they're scared shitless of running out of another liquid...

Thus their plan to buy Sweden and become the House of Al-Saab.
;)

95 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:04:17pm

re: #94 oaktree

Thus their plan to buy Sweden and become the House of Al-Saab.
;)

If they run out of water they will have nothing left but Saud-dust...

96 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:05:20pm

Boykin Lashes Out at Obama Administration after Withdrawing from West Point Event

Fischer: Your concern is about encroaching sharia law, grave concern that I have, a lot of Americans have, and it looks to me like sharia law now is being enshrined in the United States military kind of by default if guys like you, Tony Perkins, Franklin Graham can be disinvited from prayer events because of the truth that you have told about Islam, looks to me like sharia law is gaining a preferred place in the United States military. Your reaction?

Boykin: First of all remember one of the tenets of our form of government is civilian control of the military, so a lot of what you see coming out of the military in terms of policies and procedures are because of the influence of the administration. I don’t think there is any question that the administration has shown favor to Islam at the same time that they have denigrated both Christianity and Judaism, for example, having an Eid dinner in the White House in the same week that they would not have an event for the National Day of Prayer. So I think that the military reflects the leadership of the country.... It’s a bad situation now that we are seeing so much effort to not only destroy the identity of the roots of the nation which is the Judeo-Christian base upon which were founded, but also the growing influence of Islam.

Again with the secular law means giving into sharia crap.

97 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:07:59pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Boykin Lashes Out at Obama Administration after Withdrawing from West Point Event


Again with the secular law means giving into sharia crap.

Strange. I thought the roots of our nation were a set of deists and at least three colonies formed from religious dissidents trying to get clear of the tyranny of a state-sponsored religion.

And one colony that was dissidents getting out of another of the colonies.

98 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:11:32pm

re: #97 oaktree

Strange. I thought the roots of our nation were a set of deists and at least three colonies formed from religious dissidents trying to get clear of the tyranny of a state-sponsored religion.

One of our Founding Myths: that the Puritans came to America seeking freedom from Religious Persecution.

They came here seeking a place where they could practice Theocratic government and persecution without being restricted in their zealous application of their interpretation of Scripture by more lax (and tolerant) religions

99 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:16:09pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Boykin Lashes Out at Obama Administration after Withdrawing from West Point Event

Again with the secular law means giving into sharia crap.

Bullshit Boykin. But keep on playing the I'm a victim card and I am sure you'll get a gig at CPAC.

100 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:16:43pm

re: #98 ralphieboy

One of our Founding Myths: that the Puritans came to America seeking freedom from Religious Persecution.

They came here seeking a place where they could practice Theocratic government and persecution without being restricted in their zealous application of their interpretation of Scripture by more lax (and tolerant) religions

Well they were persecuted but you're absolutely right that they wanted a theocratic government.

101 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:16:57pm

re: #98 ralphieboy

One of our Founding Myths: that the Puritans came to America seeking freedom from Religious Persecution.

They came here seeking a place where they could practice Theocratic government and persecution without being bothered by more lax (and tolerant) religions

Thank god they didn't bring Flavor Aid along.

102 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:20:13pm

re: #100 HappyWarrior

Well they were persecuted but you're absolutely right that they wanted a theocratic government.

They were persecuted because they wanted a theocratic government - controlled by them...

103 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:22:40pm

re: #102 ralphieboy

They were persecuted because they wanted a theocratic government - controlled by them...

I really need to look more into it but the Anglican church was definitely more sane than the Puritan, dissenting churches. Even heard that Cromwell almost came to the US. Wish he had and became a footnote. It's funny though how the established church is always made out to be the theocrats in the history books when we're kids but the Puritans are made out to be liberty seekers.

104 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:23:16pm

re: #102 ralphieboy

They were persecuted because they wanted a theocratic government - controlled by them...

Has there been anyone yet who wants a theocratic government controlled by some other sect?

105 Kragar  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:24:30pm

re: #104 oaktree

Has there been anyone yet who wants a theocratic government controlled by some other sect?

Well, those secular atheists want an Islamic Theocracy, or so I've been told.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:25:25pm

re: #104 oaktree

Has there been anyone yet who wants a theocratic government controlled by some other sect?

Neturei Karta.

107 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:25:42pm

re: #104 oaktree

Has there been anyone yet who wants a theocratic government controlled by some other sect?

That is part of the wisdom of our Founding Fathers in putting in place the Firewall between Church and State: they knew that there would always be dispute as to the "correct" interpretation of Divine Will and Scripture, and wanted to place that outside the sphere of government.

108 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:26:14pm

re: #103 HappyWarrior

I really need to look more into it but the Anglican church was definitely more sane than the Puritan, dissenting churches. Even heard that Cromwell almost came to the US. Wish he had and became a footnote. It's funny though how the established church is always made out to be the theocrats in the history books when we're kids but the Puritans are made out to be liberty seekers.

The Anglican Church had a lot to deal with. Catholic countries nearby, minority groups in a number of Protestant sects, Scotland with both Catholics and their Protestant groups.

Plus the fact that there was precedent for the government to meddle if it thought the Church was getting out of hand.

109 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:26:49pm

re: #105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, those secular atheists want an Islamic Theocracy, or so I've been told.

Secularists hate Christianity, Muslims hate Christianity, that makes them brothers in arms...

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:27:30pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Neturei Karta.

Although, to be fair, I don't think any of them have actually moved to Iran, they prefer to stay in Israel and bitch about it.

111 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:28:48pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

I'm sure Rominey the Hominy Nominee will intone the homily most solemnly.

Why did I read that as if the Munchkins were singing it?

112 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:31:20pm

re: #111 RayFerd

Why did I read that as if the Munchkins were singing it?

As if it were written on his physiognomy

113 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:34:43pm

re: #52 oaktree

Having an authoritarian hellhole is not their worry since they think they will be in charge and be the protected ones sitting at the top of the control pyramid. And that the arbitrary enforcement of the accompanying police state will never target them for examination.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

114 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:37:47pm

re: #113 RayFerd

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

What happened when they came for the mimes?

115 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:38:36pm

re: #113 RayFerd

Then the peoople had a twitter-led revolution and came for the dictators and their henchmen.

And they had nobody to speak out for them because they were assholes...

116 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:38:57pm

Wow. The Koskidz are in full blown police state hysteria. (Top of the rec list)
Breaking: Oakland Arrestees Tortured

"Just got out of Santa Rita Jail last night the prisoners from the Oakland Commune were being denied medications (some had seizures) while the guards said they didnt care if they died. Some people were brutally beaten. The put tear gas in the vents of my cell twice. They were keeping people without restrooms forcing them to shit and piss themselves or puke all over and stay in the same area...."
...
Women arrestees were forced to give urine samples in front of male officers, ostensibly for pregnancy testing.

117 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:40:18pm

re: #87 Sergey Romanov

C'mon, what do NASA eggheads know.

I know, it's not like it's rocket scien .... oh yeah.

118 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:44:47pm

re: #114 oaktree

What happened when they came for the mimes?

They couldn't get them out of that damn invisible box

119 allegro  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:44:59pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Wow. The Koskidz are in full blown police state hysteria. (Top of the rec list)
Breaking: Oakland Arrestees Tortured

It's your characterization of the story and its reception that's hysterical. Full blown. You appear lonely.

120 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:46:37pm

Off topic -

Is there a particular method that you can use to retrieve remarks made on a blog post (not in the comments from readers, but in the post itself) that may have been scrubbed?

At a certain climate blog, I think that the blogmaster may have made an incorrect comment in the post and then scrubbed it clean without noting the change. Is there some way to go back in time to retrieve the original post - or is the original post just lost forever in the ethersphere?

121 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:47:13pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Whether it's hysteria would depend on whether the report is true. (Which I don't assume to be the case. Or vice versa.)

Also, I would like to note that even if it's hysteria, it's not a vile kind of hysteria like the right usually has. They may be wrong on facts, but this hysteria is not bigotry-based.

122 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:47:54pm

re: #120 Talking Point Detective

Give the link.

123 allegro  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:48:20pm

re: #120 Talking Point Detective

Off topic -

Is there a particular method that you can use to retrieve remarks made on a blog post (not in the comments from readers, but in the post itself) that may have been scrubbed?

At a certain climate blog, I think that the blogmaster may have made an incorrect comment in the post and then scrubbed it clean without noting the change. Is there some way to go back in time to retrieve the original post - or is the original post just lost forever in the ethersphere?

the Wayback Machine maybe?

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:48:59pm

re: #123 allegro

Only if it's not recent.

125 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:50:13pm

re: #120 Talking Point Detective

You can try search for the google cache and see if it's been saved.
search "Cache:www.(thread URL here)"

126 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:50:57pm

I am not the least bit surprised that Romney has locked up the nomination. None of the others had a chance in the general election and while I expect Obama to beat Romney, it is not a slam dunk. I don't expect Mitt to be overly beholden to the far right because I don't think he owes them anything. He should do well in the northeast if he keeps a respectable distance from the crazies. But it really is Obama's election to lose. If the economy continues to move in a good direction, he wins.

127 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:51:38pm

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

Whether it's hysteria would depend on whether the report is true. (Which I don't assume to be the case. Or vice versa.)

Also, I would like to note that even if it's hysteria, it's not a vile kind of hysteria like the right usually has. They may be wrong on facts, but this hysteria is not bigotry-based.

They are almost certainly lying. It's absurd.

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:51:42pm

re: #126 _RememberTonyC

If Europe crumbles...

129 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:53:20pm

If 183 comments and 176 recommendations on DKos = mass hysteria, this thread on the Recommended list must be total nuclear meltdown, since it's got 348 comments and 248 recommendations:

Pythons Invade Everglades Devastating Mammals, Range Expanding Rapidly

Where is Samuel L. Jackson when you need him?

130 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:53:46pm

re: #128 Sergey Romanov

If Europe crumbles...

let's hope they don't ... we have our differences, but there is plenty of common ground between us. Obama has been good in his foreign policy, far better than I expected.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:53:59pm

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

Whether it's hysteria would depend on whether the report is true. (Which I don't assume to be the case. Or vice versa.)

Also, I would like to note that even if it's hysteria, it's not a vile kind of hysteria like the right usually has. They may be wrong on facts, but this hysteria is not bigotry-based.

If they're deliberately wrong on facts, then they're lying in a way that's going to damage law enforcement relations with protesters, and incite anger against the City of Oakland.

If they're inadvertently wrong about facts, there's a number of possibilities.

If they are deliberately lying, then I certainly don't consider it to be a better kind of lying than that on the right.

If they're correct, of course, then we need to take all of this to court.

132 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:54:16pm

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

Whether it's hysteria would depend on whether the report is true. (Which I don't assume to be the case. Or vice versa.)

Also, I would like to note that even if it's hysteria, it's not a vile kind of hysteria like the right usually has. They may be wrong on facts, but this hysteria is not bigotry-based.

It's also very dangerous to dabble in lies like this. It only takes one or two people to really believe that the police are torturing people to create a very dangerous situation. The Tea Party and Glenn Beck played this same dangerous lying game for years.

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:55:13pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

They are almost certainly lying. It's absurd.

Quite probably the sources are exaggerating. "Friend of a friend" is always a sign of this. Though, again, we've seen the police behaving absurdly and cruelly.

An anonymous message is not credible, but if people believe it and take it to heart, this is not an outrageous outrage. They may be idiots for taking it seriously, but it doesn't mean their hearts are in the wrong place (though their brains may be).

134 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:55:28pm

Don't panic, but I moved our blue tweet buttons from the top of the post (right of the title), to the bottom left next to the other sharing tools. I think it gives the headlines a cleaner look and it fits better with the other tools.

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:56:05pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

It's also very dangerous to dabble in lies like this. It only takes one or two people to really believe that the police are torturing people to create a very dangerous situation. The Tea Party and Glenn Beck played this same dangerous lying game for years.

You've got a point there.

136 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:56:23pm

re: #134 Charles

Don't panic, but I moved our blue tweet buttons from the top of the post (right of the title), to the bottom left next to the other sharing tools. I think it gives the headlines a cleaner look and it fits better with the other tools.

Where's my towel?!?!?

137 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:56:31pm

re: #134 Charles

Don't panic, but I moved our blue tweet buttons from the top of the post (right of the title), to the bottom left next to the other sharing tools. I think it gives the headlines a cleaner look and it fits better with the other tools.

Did you see Blake Griffin's dunk for the LA Clippers last night?
It registered 7.0 on the Richter scale.

138 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:57:15pm

re: #122 Sergey Romanov

Give the link.

[Link: judithcurry.com...]

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Didn't seem to work - Firefox beeped at me: I guess I didn't get the syntax right.

139 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:57:26pm

Huh. This is an interesting study...

(CNN) -- Segregation of African-Americans in cities and towns across the United States has dropped to its lowest level in more than a century, according to a recent study.
More than four decades after Congress passed the Fair Housing Act, legislation that strengthened prohibitions against housing discrimination, several other factors have also worked to encourage America's integration, among them, access to mortgage credit, the report says.
But expanded access has similarly allowed homeowners to get "caught up in the subprime housing bubble."
"There are costs and benefits associated with tightening credit standards," the report adds.
It also cautions that despite advancements, such as increased minority representation in legislatures and the historic election of Barack Obama, America's first black president, the "end of segregation has not caused the end of racial inequality."


Paged

140 Lidane  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:58:08pm

More mass hysteria, since this thread has more action on DKos:

A Conversation w/ My Rich, Republican Father

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:59:00pm

re: #138 Talking Point Detective

Give a clue as to what part of the text might have been compromised?

142 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 1:59:51pm

re: #124 Sergey Romanov

Only if it's not recent.

It was earlier today.

143 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:02:09pm

re: #141 Sergey Romanov

Give a clue as to what part of the text might have been compromised?

Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing.

That statement was quoted in the comments - suggesting that it was part of the original post - but now it's gone from the top post.

Also, maybe just pure coincidence, but earlier this morning when you clicked on the "most recent posts" list, for a couple of minutes, you got an error message that said that the thread didn't exist.

144 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:03:50pm

re: #143 Talking Point Detective

Sorry - that would be the list of "recent comments" not "posts."

145 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:05:05pm

re: #143 Talking Point Detective

That statement was quoted in the comments - suggesting that it was part of the original post - but now it's gone from the top post.

Also, maybe just pure coincidence, but earlier this morning when you clicked on the "most recent posts" list, for a couple of minutes, you got an error message that said that the thread didn't exist.

Saying that the thread didn't exist even though there were probably already a good 100 or so comments in response to the post

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:07:00pm

OK, is this what you need?

jim karlock | January 31, 2012 at 7:00 am | Reply
there are some plausible scenarios whereby we could see relatively flat temperature trends (or even cooling) in the coming decades
JK: What about the possibility of a degree or so of cooling?

Thanks
JK

Then I can confirm that it was posted and deleted.
It's not in the cache, but the google snippet is still available if you Google.
You can make a screenshot.

Climate scenarios: 2015-2050 | Climate Etc.
judithcurry.com/.../climate-scenarios-2015-... - Перевести эту страницу
10 ч. назад - The bottom line is that there are some plausible scenarios whereby we could see relatively flat temperature trends (or even cooling) in the coming decades.

Note "the bottom line"?

147 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:11:20pm

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

OK, is this what you need?

Then I can confirm that it was posted and deleted.
It's not in the cache, but the google snippet is still available if you Google.
You can make a screenshot.

Note "the bottom line"?

No. It wasn't anything else but she said, but the specific statement I quoted (which is misleading) that I'm looking for. Santer et al. says that 17 years is the minimum amount of time needed to detect a significant trend - quite a different connotation than the quoted comment.

I highly doubt that she would scrub that comment - but someone quoted it and then it was gone from the post, so I just would like to have that information.

148 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:12:45pm

re: #147 Talking Point Detective

And it's not in the comments that I'm looking for that statement - but in the top post by the blogger.

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:16:14pm

re: #147 Talking Point Detective

I'm not quite getting what you need. I can only confirm that she deleted some text from her post that was initially there.

150 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:16:21pm

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

Thanks anyway, Sergey.

151 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:22:09pm

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

I'm not quite getting what you need. I can only confirm that she deleted some text from her post that was initially there.

I'm looking to see if the following statement was deleted from the original top post that was up for an hour or two:

Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing.

Someone quoted that statement in the comments in a way that suggested that it was in the top level post from the blogger - and a discussion about the accuracy of that statement ensued. But lo and behold, it turns out that statement is not in the top post . Very odd, because the blogger responded to the comment quoting that statement without indicating that she never made the statement in the first place. She doesn't seem like someone who would scrub a comment of her own in a post - so I just wanted to see if I could find an explanation.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:22:30pm

re: #150 Talking Point Detective

I can also confirm that the sentence "Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing." was present in her post, but I'm not sure how useful is this to know.

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:24:49pm

re: #151 Talking Point Detective

OK.

Google for the phrase "Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing."

You should get 2 results on the search page with this sentence highlighted. The first looks something like this:

Climate scenarios: 2015-2050 | Climate Etc.
judithcurry.com/2012/01/31/climate-scenarios-2015-2050/
10 hours ago – Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing. News to ...

From "News to" it is obvious that this snippet is from the comment section. The second is like this:

Climate scenarios: 2015-2050 | Climate Etc.
judithcurry.com/2012/01/31/climate-scenarios-2015-2050/?like=1
10 hours ago – Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing.

We know this is not from the comment section because if you search for "news to me" (etc.) you will get only the first page above. So this second snippet is from her main post. It will disappear soon.

155 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:26:49pm

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

OK.

Google for the phrase "Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing."

You should get 2 results on the search page with this sentence highlighted. The first looks something like this:

From "News to" it is obvious that this snippet is from the comment section. The second is like this:

We know this is not from the comment section because if you search for "news to me" (etc.) you will get only the first page above. So this second snippet is from her main post. It will disappear soon.

Whoa. It was in the original post?

Please be a bit more specific for how I can find it (exact syntax) and how to get a screenshot?

This is kind of major if she really did scrub that comment.

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:28:03pm

re: #155 Talking Point Detective

OK, I was a fool. There is an easier way. Here's the Bing cache for you. Save it, make a screenshot, whatever.

[Link: cc.bingj.com...]

157 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:28:23pm

Three last paragraphs:

So to the extent that we have confidence in SIII and NIII for the coming decades, we can expect solar and natural internal variability to counter to some extent the AGW. For how many decades? Well, our most recent climate shift occurred ca 2001/2002. There would probably be another climate shift before 2050, perhaps more likely in the latter half of the period. Whether this would be a shift to cooling or warming is arguable; it depends on the strength of the solar cooling and whether there are indirect solar effects (e.g. Svensmark) that are not accounted for in climate models. We just don’t know.

The bottom line is that there are some plausible scenarios whereby we could see relatively flat temperature trends (or even cooling) in the coming decades. Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing. I am saying that such periods could occur for 30+ years from natural internal variability, and longer if solar turns out to have a greater impact than currently accounted for in the climate models.

The failure of the climate community to acknowledge these possible future scenarios driven by natural variability is laying the ground for their climate model projections to be possibly falsified within the next decade. Nature is about to carry out a very interesting experiment.

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:29:46pm

re: #157 Sergey Romanov

Oh, this para was deleted too:

So both solar and natural internal variability are expected to have a cooling effect over the next several decades. Will this cooling effect be sufficient to counteract the anthropogenic warming? We don’t know. If you have confidence in the AR4 climate model attribution experiments, then you would say no. I for one do not have much confidence in the AR4 attribution and the conclusions that they have drawn. To understand the possible impact of solar variations and natural internal variability, we need to look also at the first half of the 20th century, and understand the substantial warming between 1910-1940, and the cool period between the mid 1940′s and late 1970′s, for which solar and natural internal variability could have played important if not dominant roles.

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:30:37pm

I would not exclude a technical glitch (accidental deletion).

160 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:30:38pm

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

OK.

Google for the phrase "Santer et al. have allowed for the possibility of such periods lasting for as long as 17 years in the presence of anthropogenic forcing."

You should get 2 results on the search page with this sentence highlighted. The first looks something like this:

From "News to" it is obvious that this snippet is from the comment section. The second is like this:

We know this is not from the comment section because if you search for "news to me" (etc.) you will get only the first page above. So this second snippet is from her main post. It will disappear soon.

When I Google the phrase I get two hits. Clicking on either hit only gives me that statement in the comments, but not in the top-level post.

161 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:32:14pm

re: #160 Talking Point Detective

When I Google the phrase I get two hits. Clicking on either hit only gives me that statement in the comments, but not in the top-level post.

This is already irrelevant, but I will explain anyway: clicking won't help. This snippet exists only in google's memory and is shown for some time. Of course, clicking won't help because the link goes to the blog.

162 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:32:20pm

re: #159 Sergey Romanov

I would not exclude a technical glitch (accidental deletion).

It is extremely improbable that was an accidental deletion. It occurred as there was an ongoing discussion about the accuracy of the quote.

I want to write a post on her blog noting the deletion without mention of that comment. How do I verify that the comment was there and deleted for other readers?

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:32:53pm

re: #162 Talking Point Detective

Did you skip my comments above?

164 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:33:23pm

re: #161 Sergey Romanov

This is already irrelevant, but I will explain anyway: clicking won't help. This snippet exists only in google's memory and is shown for some time. Of course, clicking won't help because the link goes to the blog.

Right - but how did you view the original post with the deleted segment?

165 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:34:36pm

Yeah - I missed #156.

How do I make a screenshot?

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:35:28pm

re: #165 Talking Point Detective

Well, you don't need to. You can use this permanent web snapshot I made for you:

[Link: www.webcitation.org...]

167 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:36:05pm

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

OK, I was a fool. There is an easier way. Here's the Bing cache for you. Save it, make a screenshot, whatever.

[Link: cc.bingj.com...]

The statement I see there is slightly different, and more accurate:

In terms of global average temperature change out to 2050, the IPCC AR4 anticipates an average of 0.2C/decade warming. With the recent paper by Santer et al., we should not necessarily expect that average to hold for every decade; we could see periods up to 17 yrs where there is no temperature increase.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:36:56pm

re: #167 Talking Point Detective

But the sentence you were looking for is also there.

169 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:38:21pm

re: #166 Sergey Romanov

Well, you don't need to. You can use this permanent web snapshot I made for you:

[Link: www.webcitation.org...]

Dude! Remind me not to mess with you ever again in the future!

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how she responds. I will post the link that you just gave me and ask her why the change was made without notation.

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:39:04pm

re: #167 Talking Point Detective

The statement I see there is slightly different, and more accurate:

In fact, this proves it was not a glitch. She removed all mentions of Santer, including from the beginning of the article.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:40:25pm

re: #169 Talking Point Detective

Dude! Remind me not to mess with you ever again in the future!

That's 500$ for services. Send to my account in the Bank of Nikolai.

/

172 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:40:57pm

re: #169 Talking Point Detective

Dude! Remind me not to mess with you ever again in the future!

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how she responds. I will post the link that you just gave me and ask her why the change was made without notation.

That link you posted in 166 has exactly what I'm looking for.

Do you think there's some connection between that comment being deleted and a brief period of time when that particular thread became unavailable? (I can give you the exact time when it became unavailable because mention was made on another thread that the thread in question had disappeared. She even commented to the effect that she had no idea why it was temporarily unavailable.)

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:41:59pm

re: #172 Talking Point Detective

That link you posted in 166 has exactly what I'm looking for.

Do you think there's some connection between that comment being deleted and a brief period of time when that particular thread became unavailable? (I can give you the exact time when it became unavailable because mention was made on another thread that the thread in question had disappeared. She even commented to the effect that she had no idea why it was temporarily unavailable.)

No, I can't check for the time. Neither I can say with certainty if it's related, although it might be.

Interesting that she didn't delete the comments that contain citations from the initial post.

174 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:42:40pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

That's 500$ for services. Send to my account in the Bank of Nikolai.

/

Why is there a difference in the two links you just posted even though they have the same url in my browser?

175 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:44:11pm

re: #173 Sergey Romanov

No, I can't check for the time. Neither I can say with certainty if it's related, although it might be.

Interesting that she didn't delete the comments that contain citations from the initial post.

It would have been too late for her to do that. There were many comments. For only a few comments on that topic to go missing would have immediately drawn people's attention.

The whole thing is bizarre. This is very hard to believe that she would have done what it looks like. It will be interesting to see what she says. If she just ignores my question, it will also seem rather strange.

176 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:45:25pm

re: #174 Talking Point Detective

Why is there a difference in the two links you just posted even though they have the same url in my browser?

The first link - cc.bing... - is the direct link to the cached page in Microsoft's search engine Bing.

The second link - webcitation... - is the precise copy of that page saved by the WebCite.

I don't know if these are the two links you mean. They should have different URLs in your browser.

177 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:46:13pm

re: #174 Talking Point Detective

Why is there a difference in the two links you just posted even though they have the same url in my browser?

This is weird. You have me two links of screenshots? And they have slightly different text?

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:46:58pm

re: #177 Talking Point Detective

This is weird. You have me two links of screenshots? And they have slightly different text?

Sorry, I don't know what you mean. And I didn't send you screenshot links.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:51:26pm

Please post the link here when you ask her.

180 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:52:04pm

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

The first link - cc.bing... - is the direct link to the cached page in Microsoft's search engine Bing.

The second link - webcitation... - is the precise copy of that page saved by the WebCite.

I don't know if these are the two links you mean. They should have different URLs in your browser.

Sorry - my bad. I guess the text is the same in both.

181 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 2:52:33pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

Please post the link here when you ask her.

Will do.

182 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:06:27pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

Please post the link here when you ask her.

Here it is.

[Link: judithcurry.com...]

I really hope I'm wrong about this because I generally like Judith. But if she deleted that statement from the top-level post after after a discussion of its accuracy had started it would be pretty bizarre.

And I have to wonder about that period of time when that thread, and not other threads at her blog, when down. That thread went down at around 10:00 AM EST - which is when some of the discussion about that statement was taking place.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but this is a pretty odd situation.

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:09:12pm

re: #182 Talking Point Detective

Honest question: what do you like about her?

184 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:16:05pm

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

Honest question: what do you like about her?

Well, for one thing, she allows me to constantly question the validity of her analysis without deleting my comments or banning me.

For another thing, she often writes interesting posts about interesting topics.

Finally, I think that her general approach of asking for better quantification of certainty is scientifically valid - even if I have some problems with how she goes about it.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:16:36pm

re: #184 Talking Point Detective

Thanks.

186 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:36:38pm

re: #185 Sergey Romanov

Thanks.

Sure. Thanks, again, for your help.

Is there some reason that you know of why this LGF is acting funky? When I type the text is taking forever to appear - as if it is an incredibly long thread. Might just be my computer - but I'm not having trouble on other blogs/websites.

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 3:39:07pm

re: #186 Talking Point Detective

Not really sure. Long LGF threads can be slow on some browsers (esp. on older computers). I would suggest trying various browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Opera...) with the same long thread. See what runs more optimally.

188 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 4:14:54pm

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

Not really sure. Long LGF threads can be slow on some browsers (esp. on older computers). I would suggest trying various browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Opera...) with the same long thread. See what runs more optimally.

It's strange - it's only this one thread.

Doesn't usually happen I haven't had this problem before at LGF, even on longer threads.


Weird. I'll post here if I get a reaction from Curry. Someone else just posted that he noticed changes in the post also - although without the evidence provided by "Sergey The Great."

Again - it's hard to believe that she'll just ignore the questions - but she might. One time she excerpted a bunch of text from another source - and left out a particular paragraph even though she excerpted the preceding and succeeding paragraphs - with no indication that anything was missing. I asked her (a couple of times) why she had left out that one paragraph (the paragraph in question contained some discussion I thought was relevant to biases I had pointed to in her perspective), and she never answered.

Maybe she'll just not answer these questions also - although since a lot of people are gunning for her, she might have some problems if she simply tries to ignore this situation. Hard to know if it would have any legs.

189 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jan 31, 2012 5:37:28pm

Just to update you - when she restored the post after it crashed, it went back to an older version, thus accounting for the discrepancies.

Seems entirely plausible - an odd coincidence that the particular part that we were discussing (as being arguably inaccurate) was part of what went missing. She wasn't online for much of the day - which would explain why she didn't notice of comment on the discrepancy.

Like I said - I'm not crossing swords with you anymore. You know stuff.

190 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 1, 2012 1:53:47am

re: #189 Talking Point Detective

Yes, that's plausible. However she has been very sloppy in her repair attempt. Not only she didn't add the complete paras at the end, she ignored the missing text in the beginning.


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