Free Republic Reacts to Ron Paul’s White Supremacist Links

Its all lies! But even if it’s true, so what? Look, a little green squirrel!
Wingnuts • Views: 30,856

Today at the far right fever swamp known as Free Republic, somebody posted a link to our latest article about Ron Paul’s connections to the white supremacist subculture, which led to an amusing and revealing sequence of comments.

First, the wingnuts tried to argue that associating with neo-Nazis might not be so bad, and might even be necessary to “turn this country around.”

So what. Obama publicly talks to La Raza, the Congressional Black Caucus, and the NAACP.

February 2, 2012 1:48:07 PM PST by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure!)

[…]

“anti-fascist” wing

They gonna hack obozo’s websites next?

February 2, 2012 1:48:17 PM PST by dynachrome (“Our forefathers didn’t bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.”)

[…]

I don’t require hackers to reveal to me that Ron Paul is associated with neo-nazis or neo-fascists. This has been pretty common knowledge around Texas for years and those are the kind of people in his district that keep electing him and supporting him. But what the hell? Maybe we will need that to turn this country around.

February 2, 2012 1:57:31 PM PST by Jukeman (God help us for we are deep in trouble.)

Then, when it finally sank in that they were talking about an article at Little Green Footballs, they dropped this uncomfortable line of discussion and united to attack their common enemy instead:

Let’s keep this an LGF-free site.
No conservative goes there anymore.

February 2, 2012 1:59:55 PM PST by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever!)

[…]

LGF! My goodness I would rather be Hillary’s towel boy than see Freepers linking LGF!!

February 2, 2012 2:05:11 PM PST by kreitzer

[…]

Little Green Footballs? lol

12 posted on February 2, 2012 2:09:47 PM PST by jpsb

[…]

I’ll put more credence in this when it’s reported somewhere other than LGF.

February 2, 2012 2:16:23 PM PST by Keith in Iowa (Willard Romney, purveyor of the world’s finest bullmitt. | FR Class of 1998 |)

[…]

Why are you posting stuff from LGF? You might as well post from Daily Kos or DU.

February 2, 2012 2:28:59 PM PST by Cymbaline (“Allahu Akbar”: Arabic for “Nothing To See Here” - Mark Steyn)

[…]

LGF? I hear “Socialist Worker’s Daily” has some interesting pieces, too.

February 2, 2012 3:57:32 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)

Jump to bottom

782 comments

1 FreedomMoon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:46:52pm
I don’t require hackers to reveal to me that Ron Paul is associated with neo-nazis or neo-fascists. This has been pretty common knowledge around Texas for years and those are the kind of people in his district that keep electing him and supporting him.

Jeepers Freepers this guy deserves the Captain Obvious award.

2 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:48:27pm

Night Lizards. Will have to catch up in the morning. As for the Freepers, seems they got caught with their pants down (again)

3 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:52:44pm

OMG so funny. The second set of comments made me laugh. It's like a collection of stereotypical and cliched right-wing rhetoric.

The funny thing of course is that I read about this Ron Paul news early in the morning. It was spreading around by then. I love the way they focus and latch on to the messengers as if though they're they only ones reporting it.

4 Kragar  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:55:23pm

I don’t require hackers to reveal to me that Ron Paul is associated with neo-nazis or neo-fascists. This has been pretty common knowledge around Texas for years and those are the kind of people in his district that keep electing him and supporting him. But what the hell? Maybe we will need that to turn this country around.

ITS OKAY GUYS! HE'S A TEXAS NAZIS!

Whew, thats a relief.

/

5 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:57:07pm

Yeah. Poor Ron Paul. We at LGF are the only ones picking on his sorry rump. In fact no one else in the mass media even asks these questions or pointed out his newsletters. Why he's so popular he only managed to get less than 10 percent in the Florida primary. Yep.

6 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:57:54pm

Q. When is Paul going to be dropping out of the race? How long will it take these clowns to blame the liberal media?

A. Not seen enough and about ten seconds

7 jaunte  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:58:33pm
I don’t require hackers to reveal to me that Ron Paul is associated with neo-nazis or neo-fascists. This has been pretty common knowledge around Texas for years and those are the kind of people in his district that keep electing him and supporting him. But what the hell? Maybe we will need that to turn this country around.

Funny the way he just skips over the part where the supporters of Ron Paul are still only a minority of extremists, and have no future but to dwindle into the margins of American political life.

8 Kragar  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:59:14pm

I like how their own crew steps up and says "Yup, he's a nazi", but they still prefer to attack LGF for pointing it out.

9 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:59:16pm

1. disregard any information unless it comes from a certifiably conservatard source

2. if a certifiably conservatard source tells you something you doan wanna hear, re-label it as liberal

10 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 7:59:49pm

Yes. It's the end of the world. The end of America. Obama's president and he's already been on watch to see OBL go down and has extended the Patriot Act and signed off on indefinite detention with a signing statement. He's frequently seen with the military and despite it all is a rather militarist president. Today he sounded like a Christian preacher. The end of the world. That radical I tell ya. This is too much for me to bear. Obama will end America with a JP Morgan guy who was his chief of staff.

11 jaunte  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:00:16pm

re: #9 engineer dog

Socialism!

12 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:00:43pm

re: #9 engineer dog

1. disregard any information unless it comes from a certifiably conservatard source

2. if a certifiably conservatard source tells you something you doan wanna hear, re-label it as liberal

Fox News.
Newsmax
World Nut Daily
Hot Air
Ace of Spades
JAWA
Weasel Zippers
Fox Nation
American Thinker
Pajamas Media...

13 Kragar  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:00:47pm

re: #10 Gus 802

Yes. It's the end of the world. The end of America. Obama's president and he's already been on watch to see OBL go down and has extended the Patriot Act and signed off on indefinite detention with a signing statement. He's frequently seen with the military and despite it all is a rather militarist president. Today he sounded like a Christian preacher. The end of the world. That radical I tell ya. This is too much for me to bear. Obama will end America with a JP Morgan guy who was his chief of staff.

I think they're saying the President is near.
/

14 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:01:04pm

Why CNN is the Communist news network!

Derp.

15 Kragar  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:04:23pm

re: #14 Gus 802

Why CNN is the Communist news network!

Derp.

Does that mean FOX is Fascists Outlining Xenophobia?

16 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:04:51pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does that mean FOX is Fascists Outlining Xenophobia?

Got anything in a Xerox?

17 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:06:18pm

What the heck are these turds doing defending Ron Paul anyway. I have kind of a lefty view about Israel. Like many Israelis even. But Ron Paul is ironically a little too far out on the left scale about Israel and even war. I think there are times for war however unfortunate that may be.

18 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:06:20pm

re: #12 Gus 802

CONSERVAPEDIA

19 jaunte  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:09:33pm

Ron Paul Blimp Store (coming soon)
[Link: ronpaulblimp.com...]

20 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:09:48pm

So what exactly is a socialist worker party meeting like?

21 jaunte  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:11:33pm

AngryBlackLady:

Ronulans Will Deny that Ron Paul is Racist Until the End of Days

About an hour ago, I tweeted Charles Johnson’s excellent post about Ron Paul’s direct ties to white supremacists. The post is full of facts and links and stuff.

Immediately (of course) several Ronulans popped up in my twitter stream to sing some variation of “That’s a lie! Ron Paul isn’t racist!” in B-flat major.

22 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:13:19pm

re: #20 Gus 802

So what exactly is a socialist worker party meeting like?

We take it in turns to sort of act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major...

23 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:16:27pm

re: #22 negativ

We take it in turns to sort of act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major...

And the cupcakes on the snack table have red icing.

24 freetoken  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:20:24pm

re: #20 Gus 802

So what exactly is a socialist worker party meeting like?

Singing... lots of singing:

25 Egregious Philbin  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:20:36pm

FR has been like a fast spinning fan that is missing a blade, its still spinning, but its wobbling and about to self destruct, and its pretty hilarious to watch. Jim Robinson, the founder is a nearly senile old con-man who raises an obscene amount from his sycophantic fools that post there, its pure grifting from a con man. As for the Freepers, they tossed out McCain fans, Guliani fans, anyone who doesn't believe in a creationist 6000 year old earth, anyone who isn't stridently anti gay, etc, etc, etc. Every time they endorse a candidate, its the kiss of death, just ask "President Duncan Hunter" or "President Fred Thompson", or "President Michelle Bachman", "President Sarah Palin", "President Herman Cain", or the new sap "President Newt Gingrich"

Its a hilarious site now, because they have banned any independent thought, any one with an IQ over 100 and anyone who isn't a crazed uber religious theocratic white "patriot"

26 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:22:03pm

JAWA

??

Journal of the American WAWAWAWAWA Association?

Jewish-American Wingnut Alliance?

Jugends Aus den Wehrmacht Allgemeine?

27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:24:49pm

re: #26 engineer dog

JAWA

??

Journal of the American WAWAWAWAWA Association?

Jewish-American Wingnut Alliance?

Jugends Aus den Wehrmacht Allgemeine?

Just Another Whining Asshole

28 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:25:48pm

re: #27 oaktree

Just Another Whining Asshole

Pretty much.

29 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:35:58pm

re: #25 Egregious Philbin

FR has always been a caricature. They even scare off ordinary conservatives.

30 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:38:58pm

Gotta love La Raza and the CBC being made out to be the equivalent of the KKK and Neo Nazis. Talk about a fail though it's a mindset that I've seen before too.

31 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:39:23pm

re: #30 HappyWarrior

Gotta love La Raza and the CBC being made out to be the equivalent of the KKK and Neo Nazis. Talk about a fail though it's a mindset that I've seen before too.

Don't remind me.

32 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:40:01pm

re: #31 Gus 802

Don't remind me.

Yeah I know. Seriously what kind of moron thinks the CBC and Neo-Nazis are even close.

33 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:40:53pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

Yeah I know. Seriously what kind of moron thinks the CBC and Neo-Nazis are even close.

They're ignorant bigots. What they're really doing is subconsciously defending the KKK because the KKK is their closest ideological relative.

34 Idle Drifter  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:43:17pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don’t require hackers to reveal to me that Ron Paul is associated with neo-nazis or neo-fascists. This has been pretty common knowledge around Texas for years and those are the kind of people in his district that keep electing him and supporting him. But what the hell? Maybe we will need that to turn this country around.

ITS OKAY GUYS! HE'S A TEXAS NAZIS!

Whew, thats a relief.

/

I hate Texas NAZIs.

35 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:43:55pm

I'd say they were also ignorant but they're also unwilling to learn. That is most them are unwilling to learn. That's the nature of the beast. I've been around quite a few of the La Raza equals the KKK idiots. Might as well talk to a flat tire. Even the most extremist forms of Latino extremism doesn't come close to the KKK. What pisses them off is that they can't shake off the fact that the KKK was a right wing group. Jim Crow laws was a right wing system. And slavery was a right wing concept.

36 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:44:43pm

Even Stalin was a right winger.

37 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:45:26pm

re: #35 Gus 802

I'd say they were also ignorant but they're also unwilling to learn. That is most them are unwilling to learn. That's the nature of the beast. I've been around quite a few of the La Raza equals the KKK idiots. Might as well talk to a flat tire. Even the most extremist forms of Latino extremism doesn't come close to the KKK. What pisses them off is that they can't shake off the fact that the KKK was a right wing group. Jim Crow laws was a right wing system. And slavery was a right wing concept.

It's the mindset that acts like every bad thing in history was a left wing.
Nazis? Left wing
Fascism? left wing
etc, etc.

38 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:45:42pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don’t require hackers to reveal to me that Ron Paul is associated with neo-nazis or neo-fascists. This has been pretty common knowledge around Texas for years and those are the kind of people in his district that keep electing him and supporting him. But what the hell? Maybe we will need that to turn this country around.

ITS OKAY GUYS! HE'S A TEXAS NAZIS!

Whew, thats a relief.

/

I Hate Texas Nazis!

39 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:46:20pm

Deja vu!

40 Idle Drifter  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:47:09pm

American Socialist White People's Party = ASWPP = Asswipe

41 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:50:01pm

Why are anti-government people so big on government?

42 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:50:58pm

Even anarchists. They claim to be about being anti-government yet at the same time they're always espousing their anarchist government beliefs.

43 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:51:04pm

re: #36 Gus 802

Even Stalin was a right winger.

Sorry, but no. Communism is a ideology of the left.

But that said, American liberalism wasn't and isn't communist (though there was sometimes contacts and exchange between it and communism, never the twain did truly join). Nor does the conservatism of Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush really owe anything to the KKK. Broad categories aside, neither the mainstream left nor right in post-1960's America is totalitarian.

44 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 8:51:49pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but no. Communism is a ideology of the left.

But that said, American liberalism wasn't and isn't communist (though there was sometimes contacts and exchange between it and communism, never the twain did truly join). Nor does the conservatism of Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush really owe anything to the KKK. Broad categories aside, neither the mainstream left nor right in post-1960's America is totalitarian.

Nope. Sorry. Stalin was a right wing authoritarian Sovietist.

Put up your dukes! //

45 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:00:21pm

cheerful young woman from exploitative company just called me up and tried to sell me on a job

had to resist saying "gee you sure sound cute can't we just have sex instead?"

46 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:03:26pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but no. Communism is a ideology of the left.

be that as it may, stalin never practised it, and, actually if you look into it never claimed to practice it. the ussr was in a state of state socialism, i.e. fascist socialism, and they billed themselves merely as hoping to "build communism" someday...

but the main thing is that Stalin was a fascist

47 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:04:41pm

Did you know that the housing bubble and financial crisis of 2008 happened under a Republican Party president?

48 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:04:56pm

re: #44 Gus 802

Nope. Sorry. Stalin was a right wing authoritarian Sovietist.

Put up your dukes! //

Well, hey now I should think that... [while DF is talking, he leg sweeps Gus's feet right out from under Gus, then kicks Gus into Red-for-left bean paste]

//The preceding was entirely in jest and not a threat to anyone.

49 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:05:48pm

Communism is a ideology of the left

and if your schema of the human political landscape has a category called "left" that contains both "communists" as well as us progressives, it has no practical analytical function that applies to the real universe

50 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:06:04pm

re: #46 engineer dog

be that as it may, stalin never practised it, and, actually if you look into it never claimed to practice it. the ussr was in a state of state socialism, i.e. fascist socialism, and they billed themselves merely as hoping to "build communism" someday...

but the main thing is that Stalin was a fascist

Most of the labor leaders that Hitler persecuted were Jews. The whole idea of the 3rd Reich, or part therein, was to persecute the many Jewish labor and communist leaders.

51 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:07:03pm

re: #41 Gus 802

Why are anti-government people so big on government?

because they lie to themselves massively about "what liberals believe"

53 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:09:53pm

Liberal Democrat FDR won WWII.

54 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:10:10pm

re: #50 Gus 802

Most of the labor leaders that Hitler persecuted were Jews. The whole idea of the 3rd Reich, or part therein, was to persecute the many Jewish labor and communist leaders.

i'm using fascism to mean a government where the citizens have no civil rights

the most narrow definition of fascism should apply strictly to italian fascism of the 1920s. i consider the nazis to have been a capitalist, fascist government that also promoted a nationalist, racist ideology

i consider the ussr to have been a state-socialist fascist government

55 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:14:49pm

re: #46 engineer dog

be that as it may, stalin never practised it, and, actually if you look into it never claimed to practice it. the ussr was in a state of state socialism, i.e. fascist socialism, and they billed themselves merely as hoping to "build communism" someday...

but the main thing is that Stalin was a fascist

Two counter points:

1. The Soviet Union described itself as communist, and unlike fascism it had an active program to "export revolution".

2. Those who support communism and the Soviet Union in the West were wholly those of the left.

56 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:15:05pm

re: #54 engineer dog

i'm using fascism to mean a government where the citizens have no civil rights

the most narrow definition of fascism should apply strictly to italian fascism of the 1920s. i consider the nazis to have been a capitalist, fascist government that also promoted a nationalist, racist ideology

i consider the ussr to have been a state-socialist fascist government

Yep. I'm just having fun thinking about WWII in that aspect though. We won WWII under two relatively liberal Democrat presidents. But according to some FDR wasn't just liberal but a dreaded leftist! That. Won. World. War. Two.

57 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:16:10pm

re: #56 Gus 802

Yep. I'm just having fun thinking about WWII in that aspect though. We won WWII under two relatively liberal Democrat presidents. But according to some FDR wasn't just liberal but a dreaded leftist! That. Won. World. War. Two.

With all due respect, how does Winston Churchill figure into your calculations?

58 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:16:11pm

btw, anytime you hear people claim that the nazis were 'socialists' because the word socialist appeared in their party name, please refer them to the book The Third Reich In Power, a work of detailed scholarship that takes up this question in detail, and gives chapter and verse about exactly how not socialist the nazis were in fact

59 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:16:29pm

Franklin Delano Roosevelt still has bigger balls than Ronald Wilson Reagan ever will.

60 Olsonist  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:19:23pm

re: #59 Gus 802

Franklin Delano Roosevelt still has bigger balls than Ronald Wilson Reagan ever will.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. FDR defeated Germany, Italy and Japan and guided the country back from the Great Depression. Reagan defeated Grenada.

That's pretty much a tie.

61 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:19:30pm

re: #53 Gus 802

Liberal Democrat FDR won WWII.

Better to say he was one of the two Western leaders who won the war, Winston Churchill being the other. Without Churchill, the UK might not have hung on till we entered the war and he retained a critical role until his electoral defeat in July 1945.

That's not to deny FDR his credit, but he didn't do it alone. It was a team effort by some extraordinary men.

62 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:20:23pm

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

Two counter points:

1. The Soviet Union described itself as communist, and unlike fascism it had an active program to "export revolution".

no. the name was The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. the ussr considered itself to be in a state of 'socialism', a necessary but ultimately temporary phase on the way to "building communism", a state at which they never arrived

2. Those who support communism and the Soviet Union in the West were wholly those of the left.

those who supported communism in the soviet union in the west were wholly communists and socialists. "the left" is a meaningless term the way you use it here

i can certainly say without fear of contradiction that "those who supported fascism and nazism in germany here in the united states were wholly those of the right", and then where are you, my friend?

63 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:22:41pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Better to say he was one of the two Western leaders who won the war, Winston Churchill being the other. Without Churchill, the UK might not have hung on till we entered the war and he retained a critical role until his electoral defeat in July 1945.

That's not to deny FDR his credit, but he didn't do it alone. It was a team effort by some extraordinary men.

No. That's only because FDR was a liberal. Had it been an American conservative instead then that conservative would have single handily won the war. It is written. I know I've seen this happen under GWB. Bush won the Iraq War. I remember that vividly.

64 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:23:27pm

re: #59 Gus 802

Franklin Delano Roosevelt still has bigger balls than Ronald Wilson Reagan ever will.

Oh Gus! FDR will always be considered one of America's greatest President..
Just like Washington, Lincoln, Teddy...
It's difficult to make comparisons.. Reagan never had to face down Hitler.
I think He would have been a great leader then..

65 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:24:21pm

re: #64 HoosierHoops

Doesn't matter. FDR won. Nothing Reagan can do. He lost. FDR has bigger balls than Reagan.

66 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:26:40pm

Nixon gets the EPA and the 1967 War. And opening up China for US corporations and HMOs which most people hate. That's something.

67 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:27:43pm

The GOP had Eisenhower who's probably a progressive by today's GOP standards.

68 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:28:07pm

That counts for something too.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:28:56pm

re: #21 jaunte

AngryBlackLady:

Ronulans Will Deny that Ron Paul is Racist Until the End of Days

It's hilarious over there. The Paulistas show up, one by one, and whine.

70 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:31:48pm

re: #65 Gus 802

Doesn't matter. FDR won. Nothing Reagan can do. He lost. FDR has bigger balls than Reagan.

I'm probably not catching your drift.. Watching Leno and blogging.
Reagan lead America and was a great leader and wonderful man..I liked him.
Reagan faced down a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons, ships, land forces, Submarines, IBCM's, Trained Army forces, A huge Air force and fighters and All of Europe under the scope..
Not a shot was fired..And we Won..Leadership..
I love FDR also.. Great men rising up to the challenge

71 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:33:05pm

re: #70 HoosierHoops

I'm probably not catching your drift.. Watching Leno and blogging.
Reagan lead America and was a great leader and wonderful man..I liked him.
Reagan faced down a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons, ships, land forces, Submarines, IBCM's, Trained Army forces, A huge Air force and fighters and All of Europe under the scope..
Not a shot was fired..And we Won..Leadership..
I love FDR also.. Great men rising up to the challenge

I'm just teasing man. But technically it's true. FDR was the man of the century in the USA. Hands down. That's all I'm saying.

72 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:36:03pm

re: #60 Olsonist

I'm not sure I can agree with that. FDR defeated Germany, Italy and Japan and guided the country back from the Great Depression. Reagan defeated Grenada.

That's pretty much a tie.

Different times, Olsonist. Reagan had a much better chance to avoid a major war, so he ended up not needing to fight one. FDR had no real way to avoid World War II, since he could not involve the US in the European crises leading up to WWII (in no small part due to US public opinion, which was against involvement in Europe at the time).

73 Olsonist  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:37:32pm

There is a cottage industry amongst the Reason Foundation types that FDR made the Depression worse. There is a conspiracy theory from the Free Republic types that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor in advance. And there is a major industry promoting Reagan as winning the Cold War, forgetting Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter and ahem Bush.

FDR had the greatest challenges. Only Lincoln and Washington contend. No one else comes close to these three.

74 darthstar  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:38:07pm

Aquapy Oakland...you know, for a bunch of dirty fucking hippies with nothing better to do, they sure seem to do it well.

Drive by post...just got home from San Diego...tired and ready for bed.
See you all in the morning (oh, and check out my new avatar)

75 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:39:07pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Different times, Olsonist. Reagan had a much better chance to avoid a major war, so he ended up not needing to fight one. FDR had no real way to avoid World War II, since he could not involve the US in the European crises leading up to WWII (in no small part due to US public opinion, which was against involvement in Europe at the time).

I think of Perestroika, Mikhail Gorbachev, Glasnost, Pope John Paul II, Vaclav Havel...

76 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:39:16pm

re: #71 Gus 802

I'm just teasing man. But technically it's true. FDR was the man of the century in the USA. Hands down. That's all I'm saying.

Hi You...Each President has shaped America..It used to like back in the day when the history Channel mattered you could watch shows about every President..Great stuff..

77 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:40:01pm

left vs. right

anyway, to put the question directly, there are so many aspects that governments can be classified by that merely to make two boxes called 'left' and 'right', and then to attempt to associate two very different groups of people by saying 'i'm putting them in your box' serves to further nothing but guilt by association

i tend to measure governments along two main axes:

1) democratic to dictatorial

2) all economic activity in private hands to all economic activity in the hands of the government

as a further detail, let me talk about the meanings of the words 'socialism' and 'communism' as defined by socialists and communists:

socialism is an economic organization of government where the major industries are owned and operated by the state. this is the definition as it comes up first in most major dictionaries

communism, on the other hand, is a mythical state of being predicted by marx where the enlightened consciousness of mankind has progressed so far that no government is needed and in fact there is a so-called "withering away of the state" - this phrase is from mainstream communist thought! - and all property is held in common because mankind has progressed beyond mere selfishness, and the sun always shines, birds sing all the time, and the crop yield and factory production increase every year forever. examples of real communist states include... um, nowhere, ever

if we throw words around we should take care to have some idea of what they mean

78 Olsonist  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:40:21pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

FDR had to prepare the country for WWII despite conservative opposition in Congress. Reagan was dealing with a willing Gorbachev and a crumbling Soviet Union. He was building on a continuing policy stretching back thru seven presidencies. And the Soviet Union still crumbled under Bush.

79 Gus  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:40:35pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops

Hi You...Each President has shaped America..It used to like back in the day when the history Channel mattered you could watch shows about every President..Great stuff..

Well you know I'm never one to shy away from Eisenhower.

80 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:43:00pm

re: #73 Olsonist

There is a cottage industry amongst the Reason Foundation types that FDR made the Depression worse. There is a conspiracy theory from the Free Republic types that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor in advance. And there is a major industry promoting Reagan as winning the Cold War, forgetting Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter and ahem Bush.

FDR had the greatest challenges. Only Lincoln and Washington contend. No one else comes close to these three.

i always imagine how pissed off truman would be to hear that reagan got the credit for "winning" the cold war

81 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:47:34pm

re: #78 Olsonist

FDR had to prepare the country for WWII despite conservative opposition in Congress. Reagan was dealing with a willing Gorbachev and a crumbling Soviet Union. He was building on a continuing policy stretching back thru seven presidencies. And the Soviet Union still crumbled under Bush.

It's important to remember that those you call 'conservative' before WWII were not very similar to Reagan in ideology.

82 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:49:19pm

Jimmy Fallon Live in Indy! It's been 24/7 Indy Super Bowl coverage on the Big screen and in every room here. I am very proud of Indy..Great city..It was my pleasure be be there and I have met so many friends..
Just great stuff! Places you have been..

83 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:49:37pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

From a little while ago:

I may need to make a note. The worse things are in the real world, the more snappy and aggressive I act on cyberspace.

I more or less lost one social group completely at OU (I can give an explanation), and another group is providing much less support than last year. Things are still fucked up and sad, they just stabilized

84 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:51:36pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

It's important to remember that those you call 'conservative' before WWII were not very similar to Reagan in ideology.

although many of them were republicans who were strongly in favor of low tax rates on businesses and individuals, were for less regulation, and were strongly anti union

85 freetoken  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:52:59pm

re: #80 engineer dog

The revanchists' fantasy history is so contorted.... they really have to re-make most of the key players to fit the narrative.

The reality of the "Cold War" is very complex. The US was already cool towards the young USSR before WWII. Only because the USSR ended up on the winning side of WWII were they able to acquire influence/control over a decent chunk of eastern Europe, something Stalin could never have done on his own without Germany/WWII destroying most European nations first.

Thus the US had a competitor immediately post WWII, though the power balance was very unequal. It took the USSR developing nuclear weapons for there to be a real "cold war".

Right now I'm watching "Panic In The Year Zero!!" (only half way through - NO SPOILERS!), one of a plethora of nuclear weapon fear induced movies that attempted to reconcile what was happening in the depths of the Cold War. An aspect of the Cold War often overlooked is that we were afraid of our own power as well as others'.

I give Reagan credit for not giving up what FDR and Truman started (in determining that ultimately the USSR had to be defeated), but he was just the caboose in a long train.

86 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:53:14pm

re: #84 engineer dog

The Republicans of that era remind me of Tea-Partiers.

87 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:55:03pm

re: #78 Olsonist

FDR had to prepare the country for WWII despite conservative opposition in Congress. Reagan was dealing with a willing Gorbachev and a crumbling Soviet Union. He was building on a continuing policy stretching back thru seven presidencies. And the Soviet Union still crumbled under Bush.

and what is the conservative's explanation of how reagan caused the end of the soviet union?

he increased "defense" spending massively, the soviet union felt obliged to match it, and the strain on the soviet economy was so bad that the average soviet citizen was worse off economically than they had been since the end of wwii

great! ////

88 sagehen  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:56:57pm

re: #66 Gus 802

Nixon gets the EPA and the 1967 War. And opening up China for US corporations and HMOs which most people hate. That's something.

And OSHA, and Affirmative Action, Title VII through Title X of the Civil Rights Act....

and, uh... Nixon doesn't get the '67 war. Can I sell you on a '73?

89 simoom  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 9:58:39pm

CNN front page featured story:

Obama: Jesus would back my tax-the-rich policy

What Would Jesus ... Deduct?

President Obama offered a new line of reasoning for hiking taxes on the rich on Thursday, saying at the National Prayer Breakfast that his policy proposals are shaped by his religious beliefs.

Image: CNNtaxfaith.png
Image: CNNtaxfaith2.png

The only place the President seems to have directly referenced taxes in his National Prayer Breakfast address was here, where he makes a secular argument for shared responsibility, follows it by saying he finds encouragement toward that general principle in his own faith, and finally references two other faiths:

And when I talk about shared responsibility, it’s because I genuinely believe that in a time when many folks are struggling, at a time when we have enormous deficits, it’s hard for me to ask seniors on a fixed income, or young people with student loans, or middle-class families who can barely pay the bills to shoulder the burden alone. And I think to myself, if I’m willing to give something up as somebody who’s been extraordinarily blessed, and give up some of the tax breaks that I enjoy, I actually think that’s going to make economic sense.

But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that “for unto whom much is given, much shall be required.” It mirrors the Islamic belief that those who’ve been blessed have an obligation to use those blessings to help others, or the Jewish doctrine of moderation and consideration for others.

Later he says:

Our goal should not be to declare our policies as biblical. It is God who is infallible, not us. Michelle reminds me of this often. (Laughter.) So instead, it is our hope that people of goodwill can pursue their values and common ground and the common good as best they know how, with respect for each other.

The actual transcript is here: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Anyway, congratulations CNN at possibly the most ridiculous and politically inflammatory spin on what the President actual said that I could imagine. Journalism fail, Drudge-bait win!

90 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:00:13pm

Here's an idea: Is it possible Nelson Mandela that the great man Albert Einstein of the twentieth century Martin Luther King might not be Gandhi an American President?

91 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:00:56pm

re: #90 EmmmieG

Huh???

92 sagehen  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:00:56pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

It's important to remember that those you call 'conservative' before WWII were not very similar to Reagan in ideology.

True that.

However, those we call "conservative" before WWII were *very* similar to those who call themselves "Conservative" today.

93 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:01:53pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Sorry if that was out of the blue.

94 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:02:57pm

re: #91 ProLifeLiberal

Huh???

He said the FDR was the man of the century--well I guess in the USA.

That would disqualify Gandhi and Mandela, although ending colonialism would qualify as a major achievement.

I'm just not sold on the idea if there is a man of the century that it has to be a president.

95 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:03:04pm

re: #85 freetoken

Right now I'm watching "Panic In The Year Zero!!

Streamed or hard copy?

96 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:04:29pm

re: #94 EmmmieG

I don't think there is a "Man of the Century."

There were many people who helped push humanity forward. To choose one is something I wouldn't agree with.

97 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:05:02pm

I think the RNC is about to see the biggest DNC whuppin' since the early 1960's.

98 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:05:47pm

re: #96 ProLifeLiberal

I don't think there is a "Man of the Century."

There were many people who helped push humanity forward. To choose one is something I wouldn't agree with.

Well, yes, but Gus nominated FDR.

99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:06:16pm

re: #94 EmmmieG

Who gets dubbed "Woman of the Century"?

100 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:07:12pm

re: #96 ProLifeLiberal

I don't think there is a "Man of the Century."

There were many people who helped push humanity forward. To choose one is something I wouldn't agree with.

you mean charlie parker isn't the man of the century???

101 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:07:46pm

re: #98 EmmmieG

Ah, think I missed that.

FDR had a dark side though.

The Japanese Internment and the strengthening of deals with the Saudi Family are the 2 big ones.

FDR was a great President, but at least a couple decisions he made backfired on the US. Mainly the Saudi one.

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:09:40pm

Various interesting new revelations from the hacked emails of Kremlin youth leaders. Various provocations against opposition and leaders, that were only suspected to be their work, are now proven to be such. Including a fake issue of a leading opposition newspaper; documents describing hacking/DDOSing activity against "enemy" resources; a pointed campaign to paint one of the leaders as a Nazi; preparations of "propaganda" provocations for the Dec. 10 demo (did not happen, despite the initial green light); certain youth leaders swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck; etc.

Again, thanks to the Anon.

103 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:10:35pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

Who gets dubbed "Woman of the Century"?

Rosie the Riveter and her English counterpart, that mechanic named Elizabeth.

104 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:10:42pm

re: #98 EmmmieG

Well, yes, but Gus nominated FDR.

I think it is a fair study to rank 20th century leaders..I like lists..
And the moment of history..That we can't know..
I like JFK in the top 5..Lincoln, Washington..FDR..Teddy...

105 Olsonist  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:13:43pm

re: #104 HoosierHoops

Cuban Missile Crisis. Now there was a Democrat with galactic size balls staring down the Soviet Union from 90 miles away.

106 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:14:01pm

re: #93 ProLifeLiberal

Sorry if that was out of the blue.

Eh, you're fine.

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:14:01pm

re: #104 HoosierHoops

I think it is a fair study to rank 20th century leaders..I like lists..
And the moment of history..That we can't know..
I like JFK in the top 5..Lincoln, Washington..FDR..Teddy...

Political leaders, yes, but the world is so much more than politics.

108 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:17:55pm

re: #102 Sergey Romanov

Various interesting new revelations from the hacked emails of Kremlin youth leaders. Various provocations against opposition and leaders, that were only suspected to be their work, are now proven to be such. Including a fake issue of a leading opposition newspaper; documents describing hacking/DDOSing activity against "enemy" resources; a pointed campaign to paint one of the leaders as a Nazi; preparations of "propaganda" provocations for the Dec. 10 demo (did not happen, despite the initial green light); certain youth leaders swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck; etc.

Again, thanks to the Anon.

Doesn't change the fact that Anonymous is a malefactor organization. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

And on that note, Good Night.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:20:14pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Doesn't change the fact that Anonymous is a malefactor organization.

Sexist bastard!
/

I concur, however.

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:20:50pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Doesn't change the fact that Anonymous is a malefactor organization. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

And on that note, Good Night.

This just shows that the Anon is not a monolithic "organization", if it can be called such. I'll take the good parts, thanks.

111 sagehen  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:20:56pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

Who gets dubbed "Woman of the Century"?

I'm going to give it to Queen Elizabeth's mother, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother (1900-2002) -- all the other women nominated in the thread were women of a decade.

And even in that decade, Hitler himself once described her as "the most dangerous woman in Europe", because her physical presence walking around London and refusing to show fear did as much as Churchill's speeches to keep the nation resolved to continue fighting to the last man.

112 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:22:56pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

Who gets dubbed "Woman of the Century"?

Gosh, last century, there are a lot of choices. Golda Meir, Eleanor Roosevelt, Rosa Parks. It goes on to make a substantial list.

113 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:23:07pm

re: #111 sagehen

I'm going to give it to Queen Elizabeth's mother, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother (1900-2002) -- all the other women nominated in the thread were women of a decade.

And even in that decade, Hitler himself once described her as "the most dangerous woman in Europe", because her physical presence walking around London and refusing to show fear did as much as Churchill's speeches to keep the nation resolved to continue fighting to the last man.

Her and her daughter, who as I mentioned upstairs put on a mechanic's uniform during the war.

[Link: all-that-is-interesting.com...]

114 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:23:25pm

G'nite.

115 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:23:44pm

re: #111 sagehen

She was fantastic, you are right.

116 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:25:15pm

re: #110 Sergey Romanov

Every criminal douche-bag possesses at least one good quality. This fact does not endear me to them, however.

117 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:25:56pm

re: #97 prairiefire

I think the RNC is about to see the biggest DNC whuppin' since the early 1960's.

If so the Freepers and so-cons will be even more convinced that it's because they didn't nominate someone conservative enough. God bless 'em they still actually think that Palin almost saved McCain's candidacy.

118 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:26:51pm

In 3 days, Queen Elizabeth the Second will have been the Queen of the Commonwealth for 60 years

119 austin_blue  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:27:46pm

The Freepers have established themselves as loons. I, for one, am moving on. Irrelevant is irrelevant.

Meh.

And goodnight, dear Lizards. As of twenty three minutes ago, I am officially celebrating my 56th birthday.

She Who Must be Obeyed says I'm as old as I feel. Actually, I'm feeling pretty damn good. Moderately clean living. (heh)

Go figure.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:28:30pm

re: #116 Slumbering Behemoth

Every criminal douche-bag possesses at least one good quality. This fact does not endear me to them, however.

Anon is not a single person, so the analogy doesn't work.

121 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:28:44pm

re: #118 ProLifeLiberal

In 3 days, Queen Elizabeth the Second will have been the Queen of the Commonwealth for 60 years

"God Save the Queen!' That's nice to say from a distance.

122 freetoken  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:29:52pm

re: #118 ProLifeLiberal

Will she outdo Vickie?

123 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:30:04pm

re: #119 austin_blue

The Freepers have established themselves as loons. I, for one, am moving on. Irrelevant is irrelevant.

Meh.

And goodnight, dear Lizards. As of twenty three minutes ago, I am officially celebrating my 56th birthday.

She Who Must be Obeyed says I'm as old as I feel. Actually, I'm feeling pretty damn good. Moderately clean living. (heh)

Go figure.

Cheers, Austin!

124 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:30:22pm

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

They operate in independent cells, true. These cells still ply a criminal trade, and I am still not inclined towards endearment.

125 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:30:57pm

re: #124 Slumbering Behemoth

Not sure what criminal trade you're talking about.

126 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:32:09pm

re: #122 freetoken

For that, she will have to survive to Late 2015.

I think there is a decent chance of that happening. However, when the Crown passes on, I want it to go to Prince William instead of his father.

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:32:29pm

re: #125 Sergey Romanov

Not sure what criminal trade you're talking about.

Criminal hacking. It was a thing in the last century. Still is in this one as well.

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:38:13pm

re: #127 Slumbering Behemoth

Criminal hacking. It was a thing in the last century. Still is in this one as well.

Umm. Unless you mean hacking of sites/mail, like hacking of the Nazis/Kremlin shills, I'm not sure what criminal hacking you mean that all Anon cells are engaged in.

And if you do include mail/site hacking, then I don't see what is morally wrong with hacking the bad guys.

If you say that "they hacked that police site and stole cards" - yes, that's bad, but that's not what all Anon cells engage in.

129 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:43:39pm

re: #128 Sergey Romanov

breaking laws to expose bad guys is a questionable endeavor. Results do not justify the means... Now was this action a crime? I call it bad security that was exposed.

130 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:45:04pm

re: #128 Sergey Romanov

And if you do include mail/site hacking, then I don't see what is morally wrong with hacking the bad guys.

Subjective, depending on who you perceive as the "bad guys". Such subjective standards could lead one to believe that the CRU hacking was justified.

If you say that "they hacked that police site and stole cards" - yes, that's bad, but that's not what all Anon cells engage in.

And some drug cartel cells do not engage in trafficking or murder, but instead engage in donating to the local communities they operate in.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:47:10pm

re: #129 boxhead

breaking laws to expose bad guys is a questionable endeavor. Results do not justify the means... Now was this action a crime? I call it bad security that was exposed.

LOL. I agree about a questionable endeavor, BTW. But it's not like the CIA and such don't break law all the time in course of their work. Or take the recent news: if assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists is the work of the West (not established, but plausible), it can certainly be argued that these can be justified. Despite breaking the law. Or remember about the Eichmann kidnapping. Or... or...
So morally it's a grey area.
I'll take the good parts.

132 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:48:35pm

re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth

Subjective, depending on who you perceive as the "bad guys". Such subjective standards could lead one to believe that the CRU hacking was justified.

Sure, and they would be wrong.

And some drug cartel cells do not engage in trafficking or murder, but instead engage in donating to the local communities they operate in.

Again with the bad analogies. Drugs are bad in themselves.

133 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:49:41pm

"I'll take the good parts."re: #131 Sergey Romanov

Therein lies the defense of nations.

134 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:51:57pm

re: #131 Sergey Romanov

So morally it's a grey area.

It is, but not to the point moral relativity.

The State is invested the right to punish criminal behavior. This does not give me the right to, say, unlawfully imprison an individual in my basement that I happened to catch trying to break into a car. That would be vigilantism. Not a good thing to turn a blind eye to in a civilized nation.

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:52:14pm

I always characterized the Anon as chaotic neutral. Neutral meaning they will do good stuff, and they will do bad stuff. I don't characterize the Anon as a fully benevolent phenomenon. Neither will I fully condemn it.

136 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:52:16pm

re: #131 Sergey Romanov

yes... basically the argument whether it would OK to kill a 5 year old Hitler. I know this is just hopeful thinking, but it would be best if we could stop bad folks without infringing upon their Rights.

137 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:55:35pm

re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth

Subjective, depending on who you perceive as the "bad guys". Such subjective standards could lead one to believe that the CRU hacking was justified.

And some drug cartel cells do not engage in trafficking or murder, but instead engage in donating to the local communities they operate in.

In short, while Anon has historically shown themselves to be sociopathic malcontents in it for the lulz most times, the Ron Paul/neo-Nazi stuff they found is nothing new to us, but it is to THEM and most everyone else who doesn't pay attention to politics.

A broken clock and all that...

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:55:48pm

re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth

"The State is invested the right to punish criminal behavior" - by following its own laws, as well as the international law. Which mostly no one does.

What is worse - the controlled lawbreaking by the state or chaotic vigilantism by internet hooligans? Maybe "both are worse". But I would argue that legitimization of torture by the Bush admin alone made a more negative impact on the world than all the Anon shenanigans up do date.

139 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:55:57pm

re: #132 Sergey Romanov

Drugs are bad in themselves.

So I imagine you leave off aspirin, caffeine, and the like?
/

It's not a bad analogy. It's just comparison of disparate activities similar to the ones you've presented.

140 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:58:02pm

re: #136 boxhead

yes... basically the argument whether it would OK to kill and 5 year old Hitler. I know this is just hopeful thinking, but it would be best if we could stop bad folks without infringing upon their Rights.

Speaking of this, let me pimp 11/22/63 again. It's more or less the book about this dilemma.

141 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:58:09pm

re: #132 Sergey Romanov

Again with the bad analogies. Drugs are bad in themselves.

Why? Isn't that rather subjective as well? Why should someone make a law restricting another ingesting or inhaling anything, as long as they do not infringe upon the Rights of others?

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 10:59:21pm

re: #139 Slumbering Behemoth

So I imagine you leave off aspirin, caffeine, and the like?
/

It's not a bad analogy. It's just comparison of disparate activities similar to the ones you've presented.

It's a bad analogy since a drug cartel is by def in the "death" business, as far as drugs are death. Hacking itself is a morally neutral act.

143 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:00:18pm

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

It's a bad analogy since a drug cartel is by def in the "death" business, as far as drugs are death. Hacking itself is a morally neutral act.

Drugs are death? Rather broad statement.

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:00:39pm

re: #141 boxhead

Why? Isn't that rather subjective as well? Why should someone make a law restricting another ingesting or inhaling anything, as long as they do not infringe upon the Rights of others?

All morality is subjective. However, it can be argued that ingesting or inhaling certain things (like heroin) will almost certainly infringe the rights of others on a massive scale.

145 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:00:48pm

re: #138 Sergey Romanov

"The State is invested the right to punish criminal behavior" - by following its own laws, as well as the international law. Which mostly no one does.

If I was not clear, I am sorry. I was speaking of the state's right to investigate and prosecute crime. That right in not given to us citizens who are not charged/employed to do such.

What is worse - the controlled lawbreaking by the state or chaotic vigilantism by internet hooligans? Maybe "both are wrose". But I would arguethat legitimization of torture by the Bush admin alone made a more negative impact on the world than all the Anon shenanigans up do date.

And you're going to claim I make bad analogies? Dude?!?

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:01:43pm

re: #143 boxhead

Drugs are death? Rather broad statement.

Well, if you mean cartels that trade in marijuana (are there such), then they're not such a good analogy for the "bad bad" Anon either, no?

147 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:01:51pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

All morality is subjective. However, it can be argued that ingesting or inhaling certain things (like heroin) will almost certainly infringe the rights of others on a massive scale.

no... only the users actions to get another fix infringes. The act itself does not.

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:02:11pm

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

Hacking itself is a morally neutral act.

So say those who defend the CRU hacking, I would imagine.

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:04:27pm

re: #126 ProLifeLiberal

For that, she will have to survive to Late 2015.

I think there is a decent chance of that happening. However, when the Crown passes on, I want it to go to Prince William instead of his father.

It's a long lived family, and she seems in blooming health.

150 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:04:30pm

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

Well, if you mean cartels that trade in marijuana (are there such), then they're not such a good analogy for the "bad bad" Anon either, no?

In my opinion, cannabis should not be restricted.

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:05:33pm

re: #145 Slumbering Behemoth

If I was not clear, I am sorry. I was speaking of the state's right to investigate and prosecute crime. That right in not given to us citizens who are not charged/employed to do such.

Actually, investigating crimes is what journalism is (or should be) partially about.

And you're going to claim I make bad analogies? Dude?!?

But you did make a bad analogy, since there's nothing in even the worst of what the Anon did that approaches the evil of drug cartels.

152 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:06:17pm

re: #137 talon_262

In short, while Anon has historically shown themselves to be sociopathic malcontents in it for the lulz most times, the Ron Paul/neo-Nazi stuff they found in nothing new to us, but it IS to them.

A broken clock and all that...

Of broken clocks...

I agree with Newt that deporting illegal immigrants in a way that breaks up families and gets kids tossed into foster homes is wrong.

Does that mean I support his political endeavors, or support him in any way? Fuck. No.

153 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:06:52pm

re: #148 Slumbering Behemoth

So say those who defend the CRU hacking, I would imagine.

Um, what's your point? Hackers of CRU were wrong because the CRU is right. Hackers of the Nazis are right because the Nazis are wrong.

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:07:24pm

re: #147 boxhead

no... only the users actions to get another fix infringes. The act itself does not.

Part of the whole.

155 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:08:06pm

re: #150 boxhead

In my opinion, cannabis should not be restricted.

Probably not. But that's another issue.

156 freetoken  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:10:35pm

Lex Baxter did the music for the music, and it's groovy, man, groovy:

157 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:11:39pm

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

Part of the whole.

I disagree. the crime is not the use.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:12:50pm

re: #153 Sergey Romanov

Um, what's your point? Hackers of CRU were wrong because they CRU are right. Hackers of the Nazis are right because the Nazis are wrong.

Though I agree, this is a subjective opinion. Both activities were illegal.

re: #151 Sergey Romanov

Actually, investigating crimes is what journalism is (or should be) partially about.

Actually, that is what law enforcement is about.

But you did make a bad analogy, since there's nothing in even the worst of what the Anon did that approaches the evil of drug cartels.

I'll grant that was a poor analogy, but not as poor as yours.

If you could, give me better analogy of criminal vigilante action that compares to the criminal vigilantism of Anon.

159 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:13:00pm

re: #155 Sergey Romanov

Probably not. But that's another issue.

It is another issue. But looking at what is legal and what isn't, your "probably" should melt away.

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:14:50pm

re: #157 boxhead

I disagree. the crime is not the use.

"Hard drugs are death" is a pretty good statistical statement. Whether the crime is in use, trade or whatever isn't what we're discussing.

161 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:16:52pm

re: #157 boxhead

I disagree. the crime is not the use.

Let me expand...... I am not advocating the use of heroin. But too many laws have been put into place that punish actions that do not infringe upon others. Far too many. And us people get use to it in the name of safety. That is exactly how government takes our Rights away.

162 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:18:21pm

re: #160 Sergey Romanov

"Hard drugs are death" is a pretty good statistical statement. Whether the crime is in use, trade or whatever isn't what we're discussing.

If a person wants to kill use drugs and die, why is that a crime?

163 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:19:45pm

re: #162 boxhead

If a person wants to kill use drugs and die, why is that a crime?

kill themselves using.... damn missing words

164 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:20:38pm

Anon is an NSA "Deep Op". The whole thing puppeteered by gov't spooks to root out innocent, Mt. Dew drinking, pr0n watching, feeble teenage hipsters.
/

165 palomino  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:21:46pm

re: #162 boxhead

If a person wants to kill use drugs and die, why is that a crime?

Agreed. Prohibition, even with harsh penalties attached, has proven to be a failure in most cases where something desirable/intoxicating/addictive is involved.

166 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:25:46pm

damn... I killed another thread.... LOL

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:27:42pm

I broke into my neighbor's mailbox and found he was using the USPS to transport pot!

It's totally cool, 'cuz he's a dick and a pothead.
/

168 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:29:40pm

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

I broke into my neighbor's mailbox and found he was using the USPS to transport pot!

It's totally cool, 'cuz he's a dick and a pothead.
/

Bingo!

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:31:14pm

re: #158 Slumbering Behemoth

Though I agree, this is a subjective opinion. Both activities were illegal.

Nobody says they were legal. And of course it's subjective. "Good" and "bad" are entirely subjective. So when I say "I'll take the good parts", I'm being subjective. There's no pretense of being otherwise.

Actually, that is what law enforcement is about.

And journalism. Just by definition.

I'll grant that was a poor analogy, but not as poor as yours.

It wasn't, strictly speaking, an analogy. Actually, I mistook your #134 as justifying the illegal acts the states sometimes do by the fact that the states are vested with the power to punish. You cleared this up for me in #145. This mistake of mine led to further elaboration on how states can break the law and get away with it, of which torture is just one example.
Although this comparison by itself is not wrong, if a bit out of the blue when my mistaken reading of your comment is removed from the context. After all, if one hates the Anon for merely doing illegal acts (even when they may be arguably morally justified), then so much more one should hate the governments that committed illegal acts and have escaped any punishment.

If you could, give me better analogy of criminal vigilante action that compares to the criminal vigilantism of Anon.

An analogy to illustrate what?

170 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:31:35pm

When it comes to giving a vigilante carte blanche for criminal activity, where should we draw the line?

B&E?
Theft?
Murder?

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:32:36pm

re: #162 boxhead

If a person wants to kill use drugs and die, why is that a crime?

Once again, from #160: "Whether the crime is in use, trade or whatever isn't what we're discussing."

My statement about (hard) drugs was statistical. That's simply what usually happens in the end, in practice.

172 boxhead  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:35:25pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

Once again, from #160: "Whether the crime is in use, trade or whatever isn't what we're discussing."

My statement about (hard) drugs was statistical. That's simply what usually happens in the end, in practice.

I was only arguing from a purely philosophical point of view about Rights. Abuse of almost anything is bad.

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:47:27pm

If Anon will ever take on the official Iranian sites and networks, like sites of the Basijis, mullahs, etc. - that will be clearly illegal.

But they will receive only praise for me for this particular action.

If they will take on official Israeli sites, I will condemn them for this particular illegality.

Both are illegal. But I don't see why the reception should not be different.

174 palomino  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:52:49pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

Once again, from #160: "Whether the crime is in use, trade or whatever isn't what we're discussing."

My statement about (hard) drugs was statistical. That's simply what usually happens in the end, in practice.

But that was also what usually happened "in the end, in practice" during the days of Prohibition (1920-1933). Banning desirable substances hasn't worked very well.

With drugs, hard and soft, some European countries and a few progressive states have adopted models that go beyond simple law enforcement and punishment. Some combo of decriminalization and treatment seems to be more promising than the current War on Drugs.

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 2, 2012 11:56:34pm

re: #174 palomino

I'm not really interested in discussing drugs. Marijuana should probably be legalized, while hard drugs should probably not be. That's all I care to say on the topic.

176 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:00:17am

re: #175 Sergey Romanov

I'm not really interested in discussing drugs. Marijuana should probably be legalized, while hard drugs should probably not be. That's all I care to say on the topic.

Whatever, you were discussing it before I got on board.

Nothing else to say? Not very interesting.

177 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:02:20am

re: #169 Sergey Romanov

Nobody says they were legal.

I'm not implying you are, either. but I do find your position curious.

And of course it's subjective. "Good" and "bad" are entirely subjective. So when I say "I'll take the good parts", I'm being subjective. There's no pretense of being otherwise.

Never figured there was a pretense. It appeared subjective from the start. Terribly so.

After all, if one hates the Anon for merely doing illegal acts (even when they may be arguably morally justified), then so much more one should hate the governments that committed illegal acts and have escaped any punishment.

Can not argue with that too much, but I will anyway.

1. False dichotomy. Should I accept Anon malfeasance in the face of gov't malfeasance?

2. Moral equivalence/ambivalence. Should I accept criminal vigilantism if I accept the fact that criminal actors should be punished?

Just a couple of things I think about.

An analogy to illustrate what?

Their criminal activity in a way that isn't dependent on referencing world leaders or gov't agencies.

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:02:30am

re: #176 palomino

Whatever, you were discussing it before I got on board.

Nothing else to say? Not very interesting.

It was discussed only because drug cartels were brought up as an analogy to the Anon.

179 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:04:12am

re: #178 Sergey Romanov

It was discussed only because drug cartels were brought up as an analogy to the Anon.

This is a blog, with all sorts of tangential discussions at once.

Try to take yourself and the "rules" a little less seriously.

180 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:05:25am

re: #179 palomino

This is a blog, with all sorts of tangential discussions at once.

Try to take yourself and the "rules" a little less seriously.

lol.... love.... more love

181 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:15am

re: #180 boxhead

lol... love... more love

This is actually about as pissy as I get.

Usually.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:26am

re: #173 Sergey Romanov

If Anon will ever take on the official Iranian sites and networks, like sites of the Basijis, mullahs, etc. - that will be clearly illegal.

But they will receive only praise for me for this particular action.

If they will take on official Israeli sites, I will condemn them for this particular illegality.

Both are illegal. But I don't see why the reception should not be different.

I am not comfortable accepting a single name for an amorphous group that carries out such a wide range of activities, and saying anything about 'it'.

Yay! Anonymous does something good!

Boo! Anonymous does something bad!

Are they now fifty-fifty? Are any of the same people involved? Do I know?

I just think of them as 'hackers'. There is no organization here that I can see. Anyone can call themselves Anonymous.

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:46am

re: #178 Sergey Romanov

It was discussed only because drug cartels were brought up as an analogy to the Anon.

And only barely so, as manner of loose comparison. Don't be a dick!
/

Anyway, I'm out. I got mad respect for you, Sergey. Even when we disagree. You don't shoot insults (that much), and you keep it relatively respectful.

:fist bump:

184 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:13:42am

re: #177 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm not implying you are, either. but I do find your position curious.

In what way?

Never figured there was a pretense. It appeared subjective from the start. Terribly so.

Are there less terrible levels of subjectivity? What are they?

1. False dichotomy. Should I accept Anon malfeasance in the face of gov't malfeasance?

Not a false dichotomy, in context. You seemed to me to defend govt malfeasance, which mistaken impression you have already corrected. And if you don't, there's no problem.

If, however, you do justify certain acts of malfeasance by the govt, while that may not necessarily force you to accept just any kind of a malfeasance, you should not be surprised or outraged (I'm not saying you're either) that others do find other sort of malfeasances justified. Otherwise, you're just leaving this privilege for yourself.

2. Moral equivalence/ambivalence. Should I accept criminal vigilantism if I accept the fact that criminal actors should be punished?

I never said the Anon should not be punished. Even for morally justified actions. The law is the law.

Their criminal activity in a way that isn't dependent on referencing world leaders or gov't agencies.

I just don't think their activity needs analogies to be illustrated.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:15:20am

re: #179 palomino

This is a blog, with all sorts of tangential discussions at once.

Try to take yourself and the "rules" a little less seriously.

I don't know why all of a sudden you sound pissed off. I didn't talk about any rules. You addressed your "drug" comment to me and I replied that I'm not interested in that discussion. I'm not stopping any of your other discussions.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:17:55am

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

That's my initial point. They're not a monolith. The Russian Anon may be doing something good while simultaneously the British Anon may be doing something reprehensible, etc.

187 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:21:30am

re: #185 Sergey Romanov

I don't know why all of a sudden you sound pissed off. I didn't talk about any rules. You addressed your "drug" comment to me and I replied that I'm not interested in that discussion. I'm not stopping any of your other discussions.

What other discussions?

I'm not really interested in discussing drugs. Marijuana should probably be legalized, while hard drugs should probably not be. That's all I care to say on the topic.

I guess it's your tone: overly formal, dismissive, and with a sense of finality (once you've gotten your last word in).

Forget it, no big deal.

188 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:23:09am

re: #187 palomino

Point taken. But also cut me some slack. Not being a native speaker, I don't always control the tone. Also, it was a heated discussion. I apologize if the tone was wrong.

189 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:28:07am

re: #188 Sergey Romanov

Point taken. But also cut me some slack. Not being a native speaker, I don't always control the tone. Also, it was a heated discussion. I apologize if the tone was wrong.

Sorry, didn't realize you weren't a native speaker. I wasn't trying to pick a fight, but I probably sounded cranky. My bad, carry on please.

190 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:35:02am

re: #189 palomino

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

191 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:48:34am

re: #190 Sergey Romanov

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

One of my best friends in grad school was German. Last time I saw him was 10 years ago in Freiburg as best man at his wedding. Anyway we would occasionally have the same misunderstanding. I would think he was disrespecting me, or vice versa, when it was all in our imaginations due to the nuances of language and myriad interpretations thereof.

Don't worry about the "tone deafness", I don't think it's a big deal. I overinterpreted your last statement and again apologize. I overreacted.

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:49:14am

re: #191 palomino

:)

193 Alexzander  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:55:35am

re: #189 palomino

re: #191 palomino

re: #192 Sergey Romanov

Hey guys I'm trying to be entertained at work here; where are those fighting words? Kilgore can't do it all by himself.

194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:56:31am

re: #193 Alexzander

re: #191 palomino

re: #192 Sergey Romanov

Hey guys I'm trying to be entertained at work here; where are those fighting words? Kilgore can't do it all by himself.

Jerk.
//

195 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:59:08am

re: #193 Alexzander

re: #191 palomino

re: #192 Sergey Romanov

Hey guys I'm trying to be entertained at work here; where are those fighting words? Kilgore can't do it all by himself.

Actually Kilgore's doing a pretty good job all by himself.

196 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:01:07am

Sometimes watching LGF Spy is like watching Langoliers. /

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:02:20am

re: #186 Sergey Romanov

That's my initial point. They're not a monolith. The Russian Anon may be doing something good while simultaneously the British Anon may be doing something reprehensible, etc.

My problem is that if they're not an organization, I don't give a damn about their group identity. And I cannot see why any respectable hacker should want to associate with a group this disjointed, frivolous, and occasionally evil, except to keep his or her own name well hidden.

How can you have an opinion about something that has no actual qualities?

198 palomino  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:03:20am

KT is tough, gotta respect that. A few years ago he had the nerve to call Limbaugh, Coulter and the TP "idiots". That was at a time when most people here loved the far right's contribution to the nation's discourse. He would get like 50 downdings for each post, but he kept on truckin'.

Still, I think he's gone a little overboard on OWS, despite his legitimate concerns.

199 Alexzander  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:08:21am

re: #196 Sergey Romanov

Sometimes watching LGF Spy is like watching Langoliers. /

I never use it. Does it show people logging in, or even every time they actively visit the site? I guess it is time for me to check it out.

200 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:13:47am

re: #199 Alexzander

I never use it. Does it show people logging in, or even every time they actively visit the site? I guess it is time for me to check it out.

Sometimes it shows Lizards descending in droves on specific threads/comments and dinging, dinging, dinging.

201 Alexzander  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:14:58am

re: #200 Sergey Romanov

Sometimes it shows Lizards descending in droves on specific threads/comments and dinging, dinging, dinging.

Like a coordinated effort, or just that a thread is particularly popular?

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:21:40am

re: #201 Alexzander

Like a coordinated effort, or just that a thread is particularly popular?

More like, recent threads, with a lag of several dozens of minutes, because not everybody reads in real time.

203 researchok  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:25:58am

Morning, all

204 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:30:58am

Some mornings only Zep will help.

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:32:53am

Eh?

[Link: www.contactmusic.com...]

Adam Lambert has confirmed he is set to join Queen as the band's new frontman for a tour this summer

206 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:33:37am

re: #205 Sergey Romanov

Eh?

[Link: www.contactmusic.com...]

No.

Just no.

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:35:26am

re: #206 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I could see someone like Mika in that role. But this?

208 Alexzander  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:55:21am

re: #205 Sergey Romanov

Eh?

[Link: www.contactmusic.com...]

What is incredible is that he originally turned down this offer. They played his Idol finalle and were super impressive with him.

209 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:04:45am

re: #208 Alexzander

You approve?

210 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:08:25am

re: #209 Sergey Romanov

I sure as hell don't. Frankly, after a tribute tour, I think Queen should have folded up. Queen ain't Queen without Freddie.

You can't replace the best frontman in the history of rock and roll.

211 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:36:22am

re: #210 Obdicut

I sure as hell don't. Frankly, after a tribute tour, I think Queen should have folded up. Queen ain't Queen without Freddie.

You can't replace the best frontman in the history of rock and roll.

[Video]

I agree with Freddie. Best Rock singer ever! But there have been other good bands that replaced the singer.... And then, Santana never had a real front man.

212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:37:30am

re: #210 Obdicut

Brian's gotta make a livin', you know. Having a PHD in Astrophysics pays nothing compared to being a Music God.

213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:41:14am

Calling Freddie the greatest front-man in history, is akin to calling Mark Twain the greatest author in history.

Sure, he was great. But, there were many greats; just different.

214 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:42:55am

re: #212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My brother's and I are friends with this band:

It's a husband and wife duo, Annie and Michel, old friends of ours.

Whenever one or more or us manages to make one of their concerts, we try to pick the quietest moment and then scream out "MICHEL IS ROCK GOD!"

It never fails to throw him off for a second and make him titter like a naughty schoolboy.

215 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:44:18am

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Calling Freddie the greatest front-man in history, is akin to calling Mark Twain the greatest author in history.

Sure, he was great. But, there were many greats; just different.

Sure. You can put 'one of'. To put it another way: There's no aspect of being a front man that Freddie Mercury was in the least bit bad at. Plus, he was actually an amazing musician too. And he worked well with the rest of the band.

216 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:45:59am

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Calling Freddie the greatest front-man in history, is akin to calling Mark Twain the greatest author in history.

Sure, he was great. But, there were many greats; just different.

well it all depends on what the criteria is. I think Freddie's voice was the best. Others were better showmen.

217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:48:09am

re: #215 Obdicut

Yeah. He was great, no doubt.

Bob Dylan is #7 on the Rolling Stone's list of the 100 greatest singers...

This little snippet is in his story...

When Sam Cooke played Dylan for the young Bobby Womack, Womack said he didn't understand it. Cooke explained that from now on, it's not going to be about how pretty the voice is. It's going to be about believing that the voice is telling the truth.

Like I said, different.

218 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:51:02am

re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. He was great, no doubt.

Bob Dylan is #7 on the Rolling Stone's list of the 100 greatest singers...

This little snippet is in his story...

Like I said, different.

lyrics yes... voice... uhhh

219 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:55:36am

re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's also the aspect of how you count people who front without a steady band, like Tom Waits, or P.J. Harvey, both of whom are fucking masterful front men. I can't think of a better showman than Waits.

But Harvey has her own wicked thing going on.

220 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:00:40am

re: #219 Obdicut

Reason number 1 why music is great. So many different style, so much good stuff. I have spent many late nights listening and discussing music with friends. yep yep

221 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:03:55am

re: #220 boxhead

Indeed. Like this song, which is at the polar opposite of everything we've been discussing. It's mostly electronica, massively remixed, heavily produced.

But it hits that sweetest of spots.

As does this one:

222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:04:31am

re: #216 boxhead

Sorry. I thought Freddie "studio" Mercury was exquisite. But, Freddie "live in concert"? Not so much. I thought Mercury was a better showman than singer.

I prefer the guys who vocally can pull off on-stage the stuff they do in studio.

I fucking adore/d Robert Plant with Zepplin. Shit was hard to sing and he sang it just about every damn time.

My favorite rock singer now? Chris Cornell. What an amazing talent.

223 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:05:17am

re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Have you seen the whole live aid thing? I thought Mercury's vocal performance there was pretty mind-blowingly good.

224 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:05:33am

re: #219 Obdicut

You forgot Manilow?

225 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:09:53am

re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Cornell is great... He has awesome range.... But here is a blast from the past..

226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:10:53am

re: #223 Obdicut

I saw it when it happened.

re: #225 boxhead

We're talking Rock Singers! PARTY FOUL!

227 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:11:19am

re: #224 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You forgot Manilow?

The amazing thing about Manilow is how easy it is to transform into modern club music.

228 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:11:51am

re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You were actually at that Live Aid concert? Holy crap.

How recent is your hearing problem?

229 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:11:53am

re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I saw it when it happened.re: #225 boxhead

We're talking Rock Singers! PARTY FOUL!

I had to give her some love.... She did blues too, which I think would qualify.

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:13:22am

Watching Freddie's "Live Aid" performance, reminds me of why I hate hate hate hate going to concerts.

The fuckers in the audience who sing along. May they die in firey Forester crashes.

231 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:14:13am

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And Mercury did like encouraging the audience to sing.

232 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:14:26am

re: #228 Obdicut

No... it was on the tele... Was all the rage when it happened. Back when MTV played music.

233 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:15:54am

re: #232 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ah. I was going to be very jealous. Though I hate big stadium concerts anyway, so I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it.

My favorite musical experiences have either been at my friend's shows or at Morphine concerts. They were freaking awesome, and I got to see them live a lot.

Though the one Waits show I got to see was pretty fucking fantastic too.

234 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:17:25am

Scott Weiland is also a great rock singer...

Love that song... I saw them last year and this was the first song. He sounded perfect.

235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:17:27am

re: #229 boxhead

I had to give her some love... She did blues too, which I think would qualify.

Did you see Christine Arugula.. (whatever her name is) go vocal at Etta's funeral?

Stupid chick... "I'm going to sing Etta's signature song and try to go vocal gymnastics on it". We probably could've created energy by the motion of Etta SPINNING IN HER FUCKING CASKET!

236 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:18:14am

re: #234 boxhead

Oh, hell yeah. Him and Chris made me believe that rock may live on.

237 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:18:57am

re: #235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

yeah.... Arugula can sing, but that was bad form.

238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:19:23am

re: #231 Obdicut

And Mercury did like encouraging the audience to sing.

I have actually yelled back at the stage, "TELL THESE ASSHOLES TO SHUT UP!"

239 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:20:29am

re: #236 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, hell yeah. Him and Chris made me believe that rock may live on.

If Chris can write more music and Scott stay off the smack. :( And for Chris, he needs to had some heavier and faster music. All he seems to do is ballads.

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:23:39am

re: #239 boxhead

His hits are ballads. He sings a lot of heavy stuff, but the ballads seem to go main stream.

241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:27:43am
242 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:28:52am

re: #240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

His hits are ballads. He sings a lot of heavy stuff, but the ballads seem to go main stream.

I really don't recall one fast Soundgarden song. Spoonman, ok.... but they could have killed it. That band had everything. You listen to Core by STP. Now that is what I am talking about.

243 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:28:59am

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Really? He's got hair that could kill a pirate.

Does he have a current band?

244 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:29:33am

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, this is my son, rocking on.

looks scary... :)

245 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:30:09am

re: #243 Obdicut

Really? He's got hair that could kill a pirate.

Does he have a current band?

yaaaaarrrr I think a pirate would be just fine...

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:34:08am

re: #243 Obdicut

Really? He's got hair that could kill a pirate.

Does he have a current band?

re: #244 boxhead

looks scary... :)

Yeah, he plays in a death metal (I don't know what else to call it) band. The name is Inter-Arma. I can't listen to that shit.

247 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:37:27am
248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:40:27am

"I'll give you a winter prediction. It's gonna' be cold. It's gonna' be gray. And it's going to last you for the rest of your life." Phil Connors

249 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:41:12am

re: #247 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is also my son.

heh

Was that picture taken immediately after he saw a pie?

250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:42:47am

re: #249 Obdicut

He was the cutest little boy... my daughter, who became gorgeous later but wasn't as cute as a wee one... still resents him for it.

251 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:44:12am

re: #247 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is also my son.

heh

Now we know why he plays black metal.

252 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:47:44am

re: #250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was a big-headed child who unnerved people by staring at them.

253 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:48:16am

I also seemed to lose teeth more than was usual, so every picture of me as a kid smiling looks like I'm a joyous prizefighter.

254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:51:03am

re: #253 Obdicut

Every picture of him until he was five made one think of Rafael's cherub paintings.

255 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:51:16am

re: #247 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Image: perrin-and-me-2.jpg

Here is my son... well and me too... long ago... lol

256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:55:35am

Baby Trey, who knows the truth about the Titanic, and his pet Japanese lizard ice monster.

A little photo-shop fun a friend of mine had with my boy.

257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:56:40am

re: #255 boxhead

Awww. What is that on your arms? Fur?

258 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:58:29am

re: #257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Awww. What is that on your arms? Fur?

Keeps me warm in the Winter and is a shield against mosquitoes in the Summer... LOL I have watched a mosquito get stuck in my arm hair... :)

259 boxhead  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:00:34am

okay... time to go... fun times all

260 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:00:58am

Baby Trey, photobombing Zapruder.

This is the last one, I promise. The photo-shopper made about 20 of these.

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:06:54am

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Your son is a shredder by the looks of that guitar

262 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:08:22am

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching Freddie's "Live Aid" performance, reminds me of why I hate hate hate hate going to concerts.

The fuckers in the audience who sing along. May they die in firey Forester crashes.

All the shows I go to these days are too loud to hear anyone next to you anyhow

263 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:08:48am

I know so many people like this:

Image: 2012-01-26-792decision.gif

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:09:21am

re: #263 Obdicut

lol

265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:11:12am

re: #261 WindUpBird

He's had about 30 guitars. He buys them... then sells them. Still uses the Ibanez I bought for him when he was 13. It's his oldest and most trusted friend.

266 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:11:15am

re: #263 Obdicut

I met that guy, David Malki, he was selling his book and stuff at Steamcon, he is the SHYEST, NICEST COOLEST GUY (and we bought like $40 worth of loot from his table)

267 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:12:57am

re: #265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's had about 30 guitars. He buys them... then sells them. Still uses the Ibanez I bought for him when he was 13. It's his oldest and most trusted friend.

I have one. It's cheap, and I use it to make weird industrial noises the way a kid with a magnifying glass makes insects melt :D My brother sounds like your son, he's the guy with the recording room and the Arsenal Of Les Pauls

268 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:15:09am

re: #263 Obdicut

It was missing the "Maybe I should ask Donald Trump" cell.

269 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:16:29am
270 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:21:28am

re: #262 WindUpBird

All the shows I go to these days are too loud to hear anyone next to you anyhow

I'm prematurely deaf, way too many concerts.

271 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:28:52am

I must confess that I am a former FReeper. I used to post there (using the same handle that I use here), but left after the election in 2008 when everything went to crap. I didn't "flounce" (or write an "opus" as it's called in FReepspeak) I just stopped going there and stayed here.

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:29:46am

re: #271 Alouette

Freeper Anonymous!

//

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:33:32am

re: #270 RogueOne

I'm slowing down and I wear earplugs, but still

274 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:38:43am

re: #262 WindUpBird

All the shows I go to these days are too loud to hear anyone next to you anyhow

Zappa Plays Zappa, the first tour, Dec. 2006. The band lineup was the ridiculously talented band DZ assembled for the purpose, plus Steve Vai, Terry Bozzio, and Napoleon Murphy Brock. (If you don't recognize those names, don't worry about it.)

Directly behind me was a cluster of drunk rednecks who seemed like they had become lost on the way to the Leonard Skynyrd cosplay festical and who were apparently physically incapable of shutting the fuck up, and they loudly yammered and howled for the whole 2.5 hours. They somehow managed to make their cacophonous noise pollution audible. Naturally, they were only yelling the finest commentary, too. "WOOOOOooOO!! PLAY TITTIES AND BEEEEEER!! WOOOOOoooo!! BALHJARHB HAR BHEQ HQB A WAERGAR PLASPR!!!!" Long story short, there was nearly a brawl because of them (not involving me). I hope they died in a fiery one-call rollover on the way home.

275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:41:59am

I have an appointment with a man who's name sounds dirty.

I shit you not.

276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:42:45am

re: #275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Kind of had to do a little safety dance there. Wasn't thinking.

277 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:43:55am

re: #275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have an appointment with a man who's name sounds dirty.

I shit you not.

Joe Dirt?

278 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:44:05am

re: #275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have an appointment with a man who's name sounds dirty.

I shit you not.

Dick Glasscock?

279 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:44:54am

I wonder if I should write a post about Dmitry Rogozin's dark nationalist past. If you're asking "who", better wiki him. Could be a Russian president in a few years.

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:47:55am

re: #277 Alouette

re: #278 negativ

I was stupid enough to post his name... but then "OH SHIT!" deleted it.

281 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:48:56am

re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #278 negativ

I was stupid enough to post his name... but then "OH SHIT!" deleted it.

Yeah, you should totally not post his name on the public Internet. He could, like, sue your ass off.

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:50:08am

re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See it in the Spy, and what can I say... LULZ!

283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 4:50:42am

re: #281 Alouette

Actually, it just wasn't nice.

284 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:03:17am

re: #283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, it just wasn't nice.

Hoover Diddleprong?

285 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:04:05am

re: #283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, it just wasn't nice.

Slut Bunwalla?

286 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:04:06am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday.

287 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:05:33am

re: #283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Bishop Cornwallis Gobbletot?

288 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:06:20am

We're so bored now that we have to think up porn names for FBV's customer?

289 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:07:56am

re: #287 negativ

Bishop Cornwallis Gobbletot?

That would make a great name for a dog

290 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:08:00am

re: #288 Alouette

We're so bored now that we have to think up porn names for FBV's customer?

Yes.

291 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:08:58am

re: #288 Alouette

We're so bored now that we have to think up porn names for FBV's customer?

Tell me, dear Alouette, what else is there to do of a sleepy Friday morning? Well, aside from poking fun at the wingnuts, but we get in plenty of that anyway.

292 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:10:02am

re: #291 thedopefishlives

Tell me, dear Alouette, what else is there to do of a sleepy Friday morning? Well, aside from poking fun at the wingnuts, but we get in plenty of that anyway.

I could do actual work, I suppose.

293 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:11:33am

re: #292 Alouette

I could do actual work, I suppose.

Touche.

294 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:13:04am

re: #292 Alouette

I could do actual work, I suppose.

I would, if there was any actual work to be done. Well, then again, since 90% of my job is waiting anyway, it's not like it would make much of a difference either way.

295 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:15:41am

re: #294 thedopefishlives

I would, if there was any actual work to be done. Well, then again, since 90% of my job is waiting anyway, it's not like it would make much of a difference either way.

For Godot?

296 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:17:48am

FBV last night you mentioned visiting certain customer's homes and seeing a bunch of Obama souvenirs. I asked if you ever saw any pink "Susan G. Komen" appliances.

I just can't imagine somebody buying a pink mixer and Kitchenaid donates 3¢ to "cure cancer" and pockets 50% profit for selling an ugly pink mixer.

297 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:20:27am

Good morning Lizards from always sunny Philadelphia.

Very glad that 2/2 was not on indefinite repeat. Long annoying day at work, topped off by the necessity of having the younger Feline Overlord put down. She lost a four month battle against mammary cancer that had essentially progressed to the point that quality of life was slipping heavily. Hydration issues, weight under 6 lbs, and a set of abscessed mammary glands that would essentially not heal up even with help from antibiotics.

She will be missed and work now proceeds with Elder FO back to solo supervision of the apartment.

And I've already come to work this morning pre-disposed towards being cranky. Not a good sign.

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:20:43am

re: #296 Alouette

Sorry, didn't see it. I've seen a gazillion ribbons....

299 Jerk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:22:34am

Going back to the anonymous-hacked material that has been posted... if someone can find out who "Penn Dutch (tltoml@yahoo.com)" is, a supposed Ron Paul advisor, I think that we would have a direct connection to his campaign. The guy posted a lot on Yahoo! Finance and has spelled out his name as "TLTomL" on another site.

300 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:25:08am

re: #298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry, didn't see it. I've seen a gazillion ribbons...

"Cause" ribbons are such useless shit.

301 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:26:32am

If you think FreeRepublic and FoxNation comments are bad, talkbackers on the Israeli news site YNet are stepping into Godwin Land.

302 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:27:21am

re: #297 oaktree

I'm very sorry to hear about your feline overlord. I know how sad it is to lose an animal companion. Is she eventually going to be replaced with another feline overlord, or are you going to continue with Elder FO alone?

303 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:27:51am

Silent down-dinger "Tassie" on the loose.

304 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:28:20am

re: #303 Alouette

Silent down-dinger on the loose.

Come out and play. The radar-guided troll-seeking missiles won't hurt... much.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:28:24am

re: #299 Jerk

Going back to the anonymous-hacked material that has been posted... if someone can find out who "Penn Dutch (tltoml@yahoo.com)" is, a supposed Ron Paul advisor, I think that we would have a direct connection to his campaign. The guy posted a lot on Yahoo! Finance and has spelled out his name as "TLTomL" on another site.

Rings a bell. Wait a sec.

306 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:30:17am

I thought new hatchlings don't get their dingers activated until they've made a certain number of actual comments. But I guess not.

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:31:23am

re: #300 Alouette

"Cause" ribbons are such useless shit.

Yeah. Thank God for the rubber bracelets.

308 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:33:08am

re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. Thank God for the rubber bracelets.

You can tell a non-profit org has really made the big time when more of their budget is spent of marketing souvenirs than on actual research for whatever cause they are promoting.

309 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:34:28am

Last year, the company that I work for actually decorated their headquarters building with a huge electronic "Pink Ribbon." You could see it for miles around.

310 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:34:47am

re: #302 thedopefishlives

I'm very sorry to hear about your feline overlord. I know how sad it is to lose an animal companion. Is she eventually going to be replaced with another feline overlord, or are you going to continue with Elder FO alone?

The younger one was added after Elder FO's brother died in an attempt to prevent certain act-out activities Elder FO began doing that I ascribed to him no longer having another cat around. I got the younger one socialized into the apartment, but the relationship between them was more that of toleration rather than companionship.

So things are going to remain solo since at this point I don't think bringing in a second cat will be beneficial to Elder Cat, and in fact would probably be more additional stress than he needs at his age.

Though I have threatened to bring in a kitten to drive him up the wall. (Having seen this effect when the kitten I had (named "Puck") traveled for the Thanksgiving holiday to visit my brother and once there drove their adult cat to distraction with constant ambushing.)

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:37:30am

re: #305 Sergey Romanov

Rings a bell. Wait a sec.

No, the guy I thought of was another TomL. False alarm.

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:40:02am

Watching "Black Swan".

What. The. Fuck.

This is dark.

313 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:42:16am

re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching "Black Swan".

What. The. Fuck.

This is dark.

Yeah, that movie was totally creepy.

314 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:43:15am

re: #310 oaktree

Yeah, at his age, it's probably for the best. I remember when we had two aging feline overlords at our old house (they actually came with the house), and when the eldest died, we replaced him with a younger model. The two of them basically practiced a strategy of complete avoidance. When both of them were gone (the one of old age, the other presumably eaten by a coyote), my mom and dad got two from the same animal shelter that were roughly the same age. These two giant monster kitties are now inseparable.

315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:43:30am

re: #313 Alouette

Yeah, that movie was totally creepy.

Yeah, stopping now....

Tho... I have a serious creepy old guy crush on Natalie.

316 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:44:16am

re: #315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah, stopping now...

Tho... I have a serious creepy old guy crush on Natalie.

Y'know, I did sit through all of Black Swan (it is a VERY dark movie), and I honestly thought she looked aged, almost stretched, in that movie. Not good at all. But, to each their own.

317 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:45:06am

re: #315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah, stopping now...

Tho... I have a serious creepy old guy crush on Natalie.

Didn't watch the movie but I did scroll through to the good stuff

318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:45:35am

re: #316 thedopefishlives

I think that was the general idea of the movie.

319 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:46:49am

re: #318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think that was the general idea of the movie.

It was, and I thought she carried the part very well. Just, my serious not-so-creepy crush on her was seriously dented after watching that performance.

320 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:46:54am

re: #316 thedopefishlives

Y'know, I did sit through all of Black Swan (it is a VERY dark movie), and I honestly thought she looked aged, almost stretched, in that movie. Not good at all. But, to each their own.

She had to lose a ton of weight very fast for that part. I read an interview with Mila Kunis talking about how hard it was to get skinny enough for the part. The interviewer said, "What are you talking about? You are already so thin!" Mila said, "Yeah I'm totally thin, but there's thin and then there's ballerina thin!"

321 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:47:48am

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
upding for anti Subaru message, I can here a Subaru with a bad exhaust manifold a mile away (which is 50% of them)

322 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:02:30am

Morning. So, check this out...

@karenhandel Karen Handel
sick and tired of liberal judges subverting the will of the people to push their left wing agenda. [Link: bit.ly...] #gapolitics

In which ol' Mrs. Handel links to right-wing-nut William A. Jacobson.

323 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:07:13am

Inmate adds pig image to Vt. police cruiser decals


Read more: [Link: www.timesunion.com...]

You really have to squint to see it, it is inside the cow. Let me know when you find Waldo.

324 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:07:15am

Black Swan was totally boring for me :(

325 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:09:00am

re: #322 Gus 802

Morning. So, check this out...

@karenhandel Karen Handel
sick and tired of liberal judges subverting the will of the people to push their left wing agenda. [Link: bit.ly...] #gapolitics

In which ol' Mrs. Handel links to right-wing-nut William A. Jacobson.

Various Handel quotes come from the rwnj choirbook. It would be useful to see a larger collection of her traffic. It's beginning to look like the SGK organization was infiltrated by political, rather than medical, activists. Perhaps it was designed to be.

326 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:11:58am

re: #296 Alouette

I just can't imagine somebody buying a pink mixer and Kitchenaid donates 3¢ to "cure cancer" and pockets 50% profit for selling an ugly pink mixer.

It gets worse...oh so much worse...

Image: pink22hope.jpg

327 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:12:20am

Arg, I got a smoke detector doing the "I need a battery beep" now which one?

328 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:13:11am

re: #326 publicityStunted

It gets worse...oh so much worse...

Image: pink22hope.jpg

ROBBER: Give me all your money.
VICTIM: Fat chance! *pulls out the Susan G. Komen for the Cure Walther P22*
ROBBER: *falls on the floor laughing*
VICTIM: There, see, that was easy. *walks away*

329 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:15:34am

re: #326 publicityStunted

It gets worse...oh so much worse...

Image: pink22hope.jpg

Didn't a female legislator in one of the SW states wave around a pink automatic in the chamber? IIRC that one was all-pink with a laser sight.

330 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:18:49am

re: #326 publicityStunted

It gets worse...oh so much worse...

Image: pink22hope.jpg

Speaking of pink shit, what's Medea Benjamin doing these days? Is she campaigning for Ron Paul?

331 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:19:46am

re: #327 Shropshire_Slasher

Arg, I got a smoke detector doing the "I need a battery beep" now which one?

Change them all and use up the good batteries in a remote control or something non-critical. There is a fire safety meme to routinely change them out on the day the clock changes for daylight savings time.

332 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:20:30am

Egypt Kidnapping: 2 Americans And Tour Guide Taken By Gunmen
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

AL-ARISH, Egypt -- Gunmen intercepted a tourist minivan and snatched two female American tourists at gunpoint, along with their Egyptian tour guide Friday near St. Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai, the region's security chief said.

Maj. Gen. Mohammed Naguib, the head of south Sinai security, said the gunmen were driving a sedan and a pickup truck. Naguib said the abductors sped away into the mountains. A helicopter was leading a search and rescue mission, he said.

The bus was carrying three other people who were left behind, Naguib said. Their nationalities were not immediately known.

MSNBC is saying they're Americans.

333 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:20:47am

re: #325 Decatur Deb

Various Handel quotes come from the rwnj choirbook. It would be useful to see a larger collection of her traffic. It's beginning to look like the SGK organization was infiltrated by political, rather than medical, activists. Perhaps it was designed to be.

Yeah. She's definitely in wingnut territory.

334 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:21:47am

In other news I lost my connection last night and decided to immediately go horizontal. Which should explain my sudden disappearance.

335 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:22:01am

re: #332 RogueOne

Egypt Kidnapping: 2 Americans And Tour Guide Taken By Gunmen
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

MSNBC is saying they're Americans.

"Seal Team Six, your aircraft is waiting on the tarmac."

336 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:22:31am

re: #335 Decatur Deb

"Seal Team Six, your aircraft is waiting on the tarmac."

Wheels up in 15 minutes or the next one is free./

337 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:23:24am
338 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:23:26am

re: #333 Gus 802

Yeah. She's definitely in wingnut territory.

With the Palin connection, she's a candidate for the "7 Mountains" dominionist crap.

339 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:23:38am

re: #331 Decatur Deb

That is a great idea, sounds like somebody who is responsible would do that...
I will go out and get a dozen 9v batteries, what the hell.

340 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:24:04am

re: #338 Decatur Deb

With the Palin connection, she's a candidate for the "7 Mountains" dominionist crap.

I should ask her if she also speaks in "tongues".

341 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:24:23am

re: #334 Gus 802

BWHAHAHA... There was nothing wrong with your computer. Do not attempt to adjust the monitor. We are controlling Internets. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We can reduce the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. We control the horizontal. We control the vertical. For the future, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The LFG. /

Seriously though, hate losing net connectivity. It sucks (because it also means my tv and phone service are out too - FIoS.

342 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:25:54am

re: #341 lawhawk

BWHAHAHA... There was nothing wrong with your computer. Do not attempt to adjust the monitor. We are controlling Internets. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We can reduce the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. We control the horizontal. We control the vertical. For the future, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The LFG. /

Seriously though, hate losing net connectivity. It sucks (because it also means my tv and phone service are out too - FIoS.

It's cool because it helped me conserve a couple of staples here. Got about 10 to 12 inches of the white stuff out there now and it's still snowing. Won't stop until this afternoon. Late.

343 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:26:18am

re: #314 thedopefishlives

Yeah, at his age, it's probably for the best. I remember when we had two aging feline overlords at our old house (they actually came with the house), and when the eldest died, we replaced him with a younger model. The two of them basically practiced a strategy of complete avoidance. When both of them were gone (the one of old age, the other presumably eaten by a coyote), my mom and dad got two from the same animal shelter that were roughly the same age. These two giant monster kitties are now inseparable.

The current plan is to let Elder FO run out the string and then probably pick up a pair of cats of similar age. Either kittens, or young shelter rescues. Will have to do some work on the apartment to handle agile cats beforehand at that point.

344 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:26:37am

re: #342 Gus 802

It's cool because it helped me conserves a couple of staples here. Got about 10 to 12 inches of the white stuff out there now and it's still snowing. Won't stop until this afternoon. Late.

Whoa. Dude. I wish we could get us some of that.

345 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:27:20am

re: #344 thedopefishlives

Whoa. Dude. I wish we could get us some of that.

You rent a truck and pay me a salary I'll gladly bring you some.

//

346 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:27:20am

re: #321 Shropshire_Slasher

upding for anti Subaru message, I can here a Subaru with a bad exhaust manifold a mile away (which is 50% of them)

(Makes note that there are others to aim Subaru humor at now.)

347 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:27:50am

re: #343 oaktree

The current plan is to let Elder FO run out the string and then probably pick up a pair of cats of similar age. Either kittens, or young shelter rescues. Will have to do some work on the apartment to handle agile cats beforehand at that point.

My parents' feline overlords are a hunting pair. One is the spotter, the other is the killer. They make very efficient work of pests on my parents' farm.

348 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:28:09am

re: #342 Gus 802

Are you in the Colorado vicinity? Denver is expected to get 2+ feet of snow before all's done. Last year, they got all of 22 inches of snow for the entire season. Meanwhile, here in the NYC metro area, we're on the other side of the pendulum, after getting record snows last year, we're seeing a whole lot less snow than normal (so far).

349 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:29:00am

re: #348 lawhawk

Are you in the Colorado vicinity? Denver is expected to get 2+ feet of snow before all's done. Last year, they got all of 22 inches of snow for the entire season. Meanwhile, here in the NYC metro area, we're on the other side of the pendulum, after getting record snows last year, we're seeing a whole lot less snow than normal (so far).

Here in the wild north country, we're on your side of the pendulum. Last winter, we had the December Disaster and a couple of other heavy 6"+ snowfalls. This year? Bupkis. Not even a single snowfall more than an inch. Seriously, what's it take to get a real winter around here?

350 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:29:22am

re: #348 lawhawk

Are you in the Colorado vicinity? Denver is expected to get 2+ feet of snow before all's done. Last year, they got all of 22 inches of snow for the entire season. Meanwhile, here in the NYC metro area, we're on the other side of the pendulum, after getting record snows last year, we're seeing a whole lot less snow than normal (so far).

Yep. I haven't seen 2 feet yet. Last I checked on NOAA they were saying 10 to 22 inches. I know. 22 inches is just about 2 feet. Is it Spring yet?

351 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:29:50am
352 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:31:33am

Denver CO
Winter Storm Warning

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DENVER CO
549 AM MST FRI FEB 3 2012

SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...TOTAL ACCUMULATIONS OF 10 TO 20 INCHES CAN BE EXPECTED ALONG THE FRONT RANGE URBAN CORRIDOR. CLOSER TO THE WYOMING BORDER ACCUMULATIONS WILL RANGE FROM 6 TO 12 INCHES.

It's not terribly tragic out there but then again I'm staying put.

353 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:32:06am

This has been an extremely bizarre winter all around. Here in the Boston area, I don't even know if we've gotten a foot of snow total. What little we've gotten has melted almost immediately. It hasn't really gotten cold, either. We had one week where it temps dropped towards 0, but outside of that it has basically been no worse than the 20s during the day. I mean, I'm not complaining.

354 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:32:14am

re: #351 Killgore Trout

Another kidnapping in Egypt.
2 Americans kidnapped in Egypt, authorities say

That is so 3 minutes ago//

supposedly they took 2 females and left 3 people but I haven't seen the sex of the 3 left behind. I wonder if they're all nuns?

355 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:32:27am

re: #351 Killgore Trout

Another kidnapping in Egypt.
2 Americans kidnapped in Egypt, authorities say

Bye bye tourism dollars.

The thugs that did that just fucking doomed thousands of their fellow citizens who depend on the tourist trade.

356 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:34:04am

re: #347 thedopefishlives

My parents' feline overlords are a hunting pair. One is the spotter, the other is the killer. They make very efficient work of pests on my parents' farm.

My two Siamese in their outdoor cat days did some pair hunting. One was the snake and moth specialist, the other rodents.

Their strategy with other neighborhood cats was the more cowardly one playing "bait" to draw the cat out to get bounced by the fighting cat (the current Elder FO).

I saw this one day as a neighborhood cat came from the bushes to jump the one cat that was out in the lawn. The intruder came clear of the shed and then noticed me standing there 6' away, and the second Siamese right there at the edge of the shed ready to kick cat ass. (My cat had caught a whiff of the other cat and was sniffing along the shed looking for the intruder, hair on his spine already standing up.) Instant chase scene as the alien cat bugged out with a growling Siamese on his ass.

(My yard was very popular to the neighbor cats. My cats were usually indoors, and thus it was valid patrol territory. And the fact I had a bird feeder and two patches of cat nip was a factor as well.)

357 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:34:29am

Good news for the Obama Administration; bad news for the GOP.

Jobless rate has fallen to 8.3% - lowest in 3 years.

The original BLS presser is here.

Once again, expect the GOP to focus on the U-6 rate, which is still above 15% (seasonally adjusted) as a sign that the economy remains weak. Still, the trend is that the unemployment rates are dropping (by either the U-3 or U-6 measure), which shows that the economy is rebounding - albeit far slower than anyone would like (especially those who are not employed or marginally employed).

358 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:35:08am

Jerk.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Radio Host Loses It With Female GOP Candidate: ‘Get Your Stupid A**’ Out & I‘m Scared Your ’Whiteness’ Might Rub Off on Me

359 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:35:29am

re: #353 Simply Sarah

This has been an extremely bizarre winter all around. Here in the Boston area, I don't even know if we've gotten a foot of snow total. What little we've gotten has melted almost immediately. It hasn't really gotten cold, either. We had one week where it temps dropped towards 0, but outside of that it has basically been no worse than the 20s during the day. I mean, I'm not complaining.

Sounds fun until the vermin that it takes a couple of days of freezing temps to keep under control realize that the world is now theirs.

360 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:36:06am

re: #357 lawhawk

Good news for the Obama Administration; bad news for the GOP.

Jobless rate has fallen to 8.3% - lowest in 3 years.

The original BLS presser is here.

Once again, expect the GOP to focus on the U-6 rate, which is still above 15% (seasonally adjusted) as a sign that the economy remains weak. Still, the trend is that the unemployment rates are dropping (by either the U-3 or U-6 measure), which shows that the economy is rebounding - albeit far slower than anyone would like (especially those who are not employed or marginally employed).

...

Yeah but those figures would have been better if the GOP had full control of congress and the White House!

361 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:36:35am

re: #359 oaktree

Sounds fun until the vermin that it takes a couple of days of freezing temps to keep under control realize that the world is now theirs.

That's my one major worry, yes. x_x

362 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:36:55am

re: #359 oaktree

Sounds fun until the vermin that it takes a couple of days of freezing temps to keep under control realize that the world is now theirs.

Apples, pears and other fruit that depend on chill hours will be affected. We won't get much next year in our already-marginal area.

363 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:37:17am

re: #353 Simply Sarah

The bulk of our snow this season came in that freak October storm that left so much misery across the northeast (millions out of power for more than a week - particularly in CT, where the utility is issuing refunds of about 140 bucks to affected customers). We had another snow a couple of weeks back, but it was about 5-6 inches at most. All the weather seems to be going well to the north or south of the metro area and we're stuck on the warm side of the Jet Stream, so we're getting rain instead of snow events when low pressure systems come through.

364 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:38:38am

re: #361 Simply Sarah

That's my one major worry, yes. x_x

Let me introduce you to Mr Fire Ant.

365 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:39:10am

Another clue....
Komen speaks on Planned Parenthood

....Johnson indicated that the decision actually had very little to do with an ongoing congressional probe.

“First and foremost, it doesn’t really have anything to do with that,” she said, adding that she didn’t know “very much” about the investigation because she works “20 hours a day focusing on our mission.”

So why did Planned Parenthood lose funding? Brinker says it has to do with the fact that they do not provide mammograms to women, but only provide mammogram referrals. “It was nothing they were doing wrong,” she explained. “We have decided not to fund, whereever possible, pass-through grants. We were giving them money, they were sending women out for mammograms. What we would like to have are clinics where we can directly fund mammograms.”

If true, that would make sense. Can anyone confirm that PP does not perform cancer screening?

366 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:39:42am

re: #363 lawhawk

The bulk of our snow this season came in that freak October storm that left so much misery across the northeast (millions out of power for more than a week - particularly in CT, where the utility is issuing refunds of about 140 bucks to affected customers). We had another snow a couple of weeks back, but it was about 5-6 inches at most. All the weather seems to be going well to the north or south of the metro area and we're stuck on the warm side of the Jet Stream, so we're getting rain instead of snow events when low pressure systems come through.

Yes, my parents in the western part of state had the same experience with the October storm (It was a bad year for them and weather. Getting hit by a tornado, then a freak snow storm). And, actually, so did some people out here. Just seemed to miss where I am.

367 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:39:43am

re: #362 Decatur Deb

Apples, pears and other fruit that depend on chill hours will be affected. We won't get much next year in our already-marginal area.

Yeah, makes me wonder what's going on over at the U of M apple orchards. They're the biggest apple breeders in the Midwest. I imagine some of them have to be freaking out right about now.

368 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:40:00am

re: #355 Obdicut

Bye bye tourism dollars.

The thugs that did that just fucking doomed thousands of their fellow citizens who depend on the tourist trade.

I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.

369 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:40:12am

re: #364 Decatur Deb

Let me introduce you to Mr Fire Ant.

I'm sure he's lovely, but I do think I'll have to ask to pass.

370 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:40:13am

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Another clue...
Komen speaks on Planned Parenthood

If true, that would make sense. Can anyone confirm that PP does not perform cancer screening?

Nope. They perform cancer screening-- as in, breast exams.

They don't provide mammograms, but refer to them. Which is the way, of course, you catch cancer.

This newest explanation by Komen does not make any sense, either.

371 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:40:33am

LGF = Democratic Underground? hahaha

372 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:40:37am

re: #363 lawhawk

The bulk of our snow this season came in that freak October storm that left so much misery across the northeast (millions out of power for more than a week - particularly in CT, where the utility is issuing refunds of about 140 bucks to affected customers). We had another snow a couple of weeks back, but it was about 5-6 inches at most. All the weather seems to be going well to the north or south of the metro area and we're stuck on the warm side of the Jet Stream, so we're getting rain instead of snow events when low pressure systems come through.

Interestingly enough the last couple of storms to drop snow on northern NJ on a weekend have lined up with me being scheduled to go visit friends up that way (Keansburg). I haven't found it too bad since the heavier snow was farther north, where it inconvenienced another friend's travel a great deal.

I also allow for extra time driving in those conditions, and drive a Forester. (I also know that 4-wheel go /= 4-wheel stop.)

373 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:40:48am

Burp.

374 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:41:32am

re: #358 Rightwingconspirator

What is it about talk radio that seems to attract psychopathic assholes? Not all talk radio hosts are psychopathic assholes, but it seems like every psychopathic asshole will eventually have a radio show, at least temporarily.

375 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:41:32am

re: #370 Obdicut

Nope. They perform cancer screening-- as in, breast exams.

They don't provide mammograms, but refer to them. Which is the way, of course, you catch cancer.

This newest explanation by Komen does not make any sense, either.

Pattern detected! I can see this is going to be the next obsession. Pretending to defend Komen. Or something.

376 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:43:07am

re: #374 negativ

What is it about talk radio that seems to attract psychopathic assholes? Not all talk radio hosts are psychopathic assholes, but it seems like every psychopathic asshole will eventually have a radio show, at least temporarily.

Because they're too smart to host sports talk radio?

(The only area that can make political talk sound intelligent and meaningful.)

377 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:43:12am

re: #370 Obdicut

Nope. They perform cancer screening-- as in, breast exams.

They don't provide mammograms, but refer to them. Which is the way, of course, you catch cancer.

This newest explanation by Komen does not make any sense, either.

Right. PP screens patients and refers those that need mammograms for them. They also cover the cost of the mammograms. The newest Komen excuse is just that. It's a bunch of BS that they're trying because they realized their initial BS wasn't flying.

378 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:45:44am

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Dragon_Lady's experience was this-At PP there were STD screenings, pap smears etc. In the instance of rape or assault a woman can get counseling, help with the police and the morning after pill.

She got a referral and a voucher to help pay for a mammogram at a good lab.

I don't see the controversy at all. This whole thing is enraging. PP need not get the super microscope because Komen had an evil change of heart.

Sorry, rant off.

379 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:46:53am

re: #374 negativ

Ratings baby! The ultimate media bias driver.

380 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:50:13am

This entire thing with Komen is really leaving me utterly befuddled. You have an organization that has been absolutely amazing with PR for years and years, but suddenly now they seem to be doing their best to find every way possible to permanently destroy all the goodwill they've built up. Every single thing they do to respond to this just seems to make things worse. How, exactly, did they drop the ball so badly? Did they really not understand that taking an obviously political action against an organization like PP would blow up in their face?

381 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:53:52am

re: #380 Simply Sarah

I think they got the feeling that they were invincible because they stand for an extremely noble cause, and so they can throw their weight around wherever they like with impunity. I mean, really, it takes balls to stand up and denounce a group whose purported reason for existence is the eradication of breast cancer. But, as they found out, there are people out there with the gravitas to call them on their bullshit, and now they are paying the price.

382 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:55:25am

re: #378 Rightwingconspirator

Dragon_Lady's experience was this-At PP there were STD screenings, pap smears etc. In the instance of rape or assault a woman can get counseling, help with the police and the morning after pill.

She got a referral and a voucher to help pay for a mammogram at a good lab.

I don't see the controversy at all. This whole thing is enraging. PP need not get the super microscope because Komen had an evil change of heart.

Sorry, rant off.

I did a quick check for the definition of a "pass through grant" to see if there's an added administration fee or commission involved. I didn't see any mention of it but that might be part of the reason. It might be more cost effective or efficient to give the grant directly to the folks doing the mammograms.

383 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:55:58am

re: #381 thedopefishlives

I think they got the feeling that they were invincible because they stand for an extremely noble cause, and so they can throw their weight around wherever they like with impunity. I mean, really, it takes balls to stand up and denounce a group whose purported reason for existence is the eradication of breast cancer. But, as they found out, there are people out there with the gravitas to call them on their bullshit, and now they are paying the price.

They turned their "noble cause" into a marketing campaign for tacky pink merchandise.

384 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:58:10am

re: #380 Simply Sarah

This entire thing with Komen is really leaving me utterly befuddled. You have an organization that has been absolutely amazing with PR for years and years, but suddenly now they seem to be doing their best to find every way possible to permanently destroy all the goodwill they've built up. Every single thing they do to respond to this just seems to make things worse. How, exactly, did they drop the ball so badly? Did they really not understand that taking an obviously political action against an organization like PP wouldn't blow up in their face?

Because their (remaining) upper echelon is convinced what they are doing is right. Plus, once a decision like that is made, boards and CEOs are very hesitant to reverse themselves (barring the equivalent of a coup on the board).

My volunteer board training included a mantra that once a board made a decision (however divisive it was discussed within the board) the entire board was expected to support the decision vocally, or at least keep silent about not agreeing with it. A sort of Vegas rule in how what happened at the board meeting stayed in the board meeting. This does have an effect to stifle high-level public dissent and make a reversal unlikely, especially if the board only meets 1-2 times a year. And the CEO/ED is expected to enact the policies set by the board.

385 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 6:59:57am

re: #381 thedopefishlives

I think they got the feeling that they were invincible because they stand for an extremely noble cause, and so they can throw their weight around wherever they like with impunity. I mean, really, it takes balls to stand up and denounce a group whose purported reason for existence is the eradication of breast cancer. But, as they found out, there are people out there with the gravitas to call them on their bullshit, and now they are paying the price.

I think there's certainly some of this, yes. Too big for their own good, but not as big as they thought.

386 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:01:22am

re: #382 Killgore Trout

I did a quick check for the definition of a "pass through grant" to see if there's an added administration fee or commission involved. I didn't see any mention of it but that might be part of the reason. It might be more cost effective or efficient to give the grant directly to the folks doing the mammograms.

It's not. Cancer screening is all about a stepped approach. First and foremost, you need people being given breast exams and educated about breast cancer. PP is often women's only medical appointment of the year. It is an absolutely essential part of cancer testing.

Restricting payments just to places with mammograms is not medically defensible. And obviously, it's a lot cheaper to approach that way, and to only refer those who need it for a mammogram.

387 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:01:54am

re: #382 Killgore Trout

I did a quick check for the definition of a "pass through grant" to see if there's an added administration fee or commission involved. I didn't see any mention of it but that might be part of the reason. It might be more cost effective or efficient to give the grant directly to the folks doing the mammograms.

Why do you seem so invested in defending Komen here? You had no issue seeing the bad in OWS, even before their issues had really crystallized and were mostly just potential results.

388 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:02:01am

Repost:

@karenhandel Karen Handel (VP for Susan G. Komen)

sick and tired of liberal judges subverting the will of the people to push their left wing agenda. http://bit.ly/bcEymB #gapolitics

Links to right-wing-nut William A. Jacobson.

389 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:03:50am

re: #384 oaktree

Because their (remaining) upper echelon is convinced what they are doing is right. Plus, once a decision like that is made, boards and CEOs are very hesitant to reverse themselves (barring the equivalent of a coup on the board).

My volunteer board training included a mantra that once a board made a decision (however divisive it was discussed within the board) the entire board was expected to support the decision vocally, or at least keep silent about not agreeing with it. A sort of Vegas rule in how what happened at the board meeting stayed in the board meeting. This does have an effect to stifle high-level public dissent and make a reversal unlikely, especially if the board only meets 1-2 times a year. And the CEO/ED is expected to enact the policies set by the board.

It's not even that their supporting the choice. It's that they're doing a terrible job of attempting to support it. Inconsistent, vague, and entirely unconvincing.

390 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:03:57am

re: #380 Simply Sarah

I don't think Komen's PR has been all that great; yes, their pink ribbon campaign is everywhere, but that has rankled other charitable groups at the same time. Lawsuits and claims against charities for using "for the cure", and other actions that make Komen behave and appear as the 800 pound gorilla in the room. But this latest action is several magnitudes worse than anything they've done wrong in the past.

They've alienated half (or more) of the country that supports abortion rights and PP all to cater to the vocal anti-abortion advocates who have joined the ranks of the Komen leadership.

Moreover, I have to wonder what would happen if Komen itself came under investigation by Congress for how it spends its money. Would that mean that it would have to divest itself from its monies in the same way that they're acting towards PP?

Moreover, they've taken a word - investigation - and apply it to political witch-hunts in Congress, and not law enforcement investigations, which is really what Komen ought to be worried about if they're dealing with integrity issues. Congressional investigations are as much about political witch hunts and campaigning as they are about legitimately looking at issues requiring Congressional attention. PP is among the most scrutinized charities in the nation because of the kinds of services they provide, and this is just another excuse to stick it to them.

391 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:04:12am

@karenhandel Karen Handel
It is an outrage that a judge has blocked the implementation of AZ’s common sense immigration law. [Link: bit.ly...] #gapolitics

392 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:05:47am

Gee whiz. A white right-wing-nut politico with a deep interest immigration "issues". I wonder what that means?

393 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:06:09am

@karenhandel Karen Handel
A Handel Administration will say “bring it on” to President Obama and pass legislation similar to what they have in Arizona. #gapolitics

394 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:06:33am

Karen Handel
@karenhandel Karen Handel
i'm vry excited 2 get Jan Brewer's endorsement 2day. As Gov of AZ, she has led the charge 4 strong laws against illegals. #gapolitics

395 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:06:42am

re: #386 Obdicut

I've seen some of the arguments against funding PP laid out in terms of the increased risks of cancers, including breast cancer, from the provision of contraceptives and abortions. I don't find those particularly persuasive, since the risks are minimal and the benefits of those services outweigh the risks - and PP's services include breast screening and education so that women can detect potential problems far earlier than they would otherwise.

396 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:07:59am

re: #390 lawhawk

I don't think Komen's PR has been all that great; yes, their pink ribbon campaign is everywhere, but that has rankled other charitable groups at the same time. Lawsuits and claims against charities for using "for the cure", and other actions that make Komen behave and appear as the 800 pound gorilla in the room. But this latest action is several magnitudes worse than anything they've done wrong in the past.

They've alienated half (or more) of the country that supports abortion rights and PP all to cater to the vocal anti-abortion advocates who have joined the ranks of the Komen leadership.

Moreover, I have to wonder what would happen if Komen itself came under investigation by Congress for how it spends its money. Would that mean that it would have to divest itself from its monies in the same way that they're acting towards PP?

Moreover, they've taken a word - investigation - and apply it to political witch-hunts in Congress, and not law enforcement investigations, which is really what Komen ought to be worried about if they're dealing with integrity issues. Congressional investigations are as much about political witch hunts and campaigning as they are about legitimately looking at issues requiring Congressional attention. PP is among the most scrutinized charities in the nation because of the kinds of services they provide, and this is just another excuse to stick it to them.

Well, I should clarify my earlier statement. They had been doing great PR work with the general public, most of which had been highly supportive of Komen and held them in high regard, rightly or wrongly. Yes, they had been doing some seemingly underhanded stuff, but they'd been able to keep that mostly buried and under control. It really wasn't until this whole situation and the shattering of the illusion that they were non-political that all the other dirty laundry came to the attention of most of the public.

397 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:09:04am

re: #387 Simply Sarah

Why do you seem so invested in defending Komen here?

I'm just curious about the truth of the matter. I don't see either side being particularly honest. Abortion is a heated topic and activists on both sides get passionate and start stretching the truth. I'm just wondering if maybe Komen is just trying to do the right thing. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between on this one.

398 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:10:01am

re: #394 Gus 802

Karen Handel
@karenhandel Karen Handel
i'm vry excited 2 get Jan Brewer's endorsement 2day. As Gov of AZ, she has led the charge 4 strong laws against illegals. #gapolitics

So she's a bigot as well as an anti-choice douche bag. Check out this morning's Pundit Round Up on dKos...Georgia put together a good list of editorials from around the country excoriating SGKF.

Mornin' all.

399 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:10:10am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

I'm just curious about the truth of the matter. I don't see either side being particularly honest. Abortion is a heated topic and activists on both sides get passionate and start stretching the truth. I'm just wondering if maybe Komen is just trying to do the right thing. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between on this one.

Between what?

400 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:10:40am

More Race-Based "Justice" From Obama Administration
By Michelle Malkin on June 4, 2009 at 12:00am
On Vdare.

Exactly. And the harassment was aimed not just at voters, but at white poll workers trying to ensure a fair and lawful process in a city infamous for machine politics and street money pollution.

Who are the racial cowards, Holder?

On the heels of this voter intimidation protection plan, the Obama Justice Department issued another decision that undermines electoral integrity—but bolsters Democratic voter drives. The department this week denied the state of Georgia the ability to enact strict citizenship voter verification rules previously approved by two federal courts. As Georgia Secretary of State Karen Handel explained:

"DOJ has thrown open the door for activist organizations such as ACORN to register non-citizens to vote in Georgia's elections, and the state has no ability to verify an applicant's citizenship status or whether the individual even exists."

401 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:11:22am

re: #395 lawhawk

I've seen some of the arguments against funding PP laid out in terms of the increased risks of cancers, including breast cancer, from the provision of contraceptives and abortions. I don't find those particularly persuasive, since the risks are minimal and the benefits of those services outweigh the risks - and PP's services include breast screening and education so that women can detect potential problems far earlier than they would otherwise.

Exactly. The education they do is probably their most important factor, but their ability to refer to mammograms is really important too. It's tying together services like that that really helps follow through. If you tell a woman "You need a mammogram," it is far less likely to happen than if you say "You need a mammogram, here's a voucher to get it done".

And the increased risk of cancer from abortions is completely scientific hokum. Contraceptives, hormone-based, may very well increase cancer risk but so does, most likely total numbers of menstrual cycles. That calculus is way too hard to perform.

402 Bulworth  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:11:43am
February 2, 2012 1:48:07 PM PST by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure!)

What rightwing violence? /

403 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:12:29am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

I'm just curious about the truth of the matter. I don't see either side being particularly honest. Abortion is a heated topic and activists on both sides get passionate and start stretching the truth. I'm just wondering if maybe Komen is just trying to do the right thing. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between on this one.

Wow. Between anti-abortion activists, and pro-choice activists, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle?

Classic.

What do you think about the Komen VP's comments on judges?

404 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:13:16am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

I'm just curious about the truth of the matter. I don't see either side being particularly honest. Abortion is a heated topic and activists on both sides get passionate and start stretching the truth. I'm just wondering if maybe Komen is just trying to do the right thing. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between on this one.

Thanks for your input Mr. Romney.

405 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:13:51am

re: #403 Obdicut

What do you think about the Komen VP's comments on judges?

She seems like a douchebag.

406 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:13:57am

A pattern emerges.

407 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:13:57am

re: #401 Obdicut

I'm also heartened by the fact that some of the Komen affiliates are rebelling against the central organization's directives:

Komen has said the decision stemmed from newly adopted criteria barring grants to organizations under investigation — affecting Planned Parenthood because of an inquiry by a Republican congressman acting with encouragement from anti-abortion activists.

A source with direct knowledge of decision-making at Komen's headquarters gave a different account, saying the grant-making criteria were adopted with the deliberate intention of targeting Planned Parenthood. The criteria's impact on Planned Parenthood and its status as the focus of government investigations were highlighted in a memo distributed to Komen affiliates in December.

According to the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of repercussions, a driving force behind the move was Karen Handel, who was hired by Komen last year as vice president for public policy after losing a campaign for governor in Georgia in which she stressed her anti-abortion views and frequently denounced Planned Parenthood.

Karen Handel is said to be a driving force behind Komen's decision this week to cut breast-screening grants to Planned Parenthood.
Brinker, in an interview with MSNBC, said Handel didn't have a significant role in the policy change.

Among Komen's affiliates, there were clear signs of discomfort with the decision. All seven Komen affiliates in California, in a joint letter to their congressional delegation, said they were "strongly opposed" to the policy change and were working to overturn it.

"Our commitment to our mission is unwavering," the letter said. "This is a misstep in that journey and ... we will do whatever it takes to do what is right for the health of women and men in California."

Philanthropy experts said it will be difficult for Komen to convince people it wasn't playing politics.

408 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:14:35am

re: #389 Simply Sarah

It's not even that their supporting the choice. It's that they're doing a terrible job of attempting to support it. Inconsistent, vague, and entirely unconvincing.

Their leadership and whoever handles their PR was totally unprepared for the blowback that occured. Cluelessness combined with no preparation regarding a communications plan* for this decision. So they're reacting a full cycle behind, scrambling, and thus making themselves look worse.

And with their previous bullying (or possibly success) there are plenty of folk willing to help take Komen down a notch in the public's eye.

* - Another thing from volunteer board training is that there is are certain things to do when the reporter appears with a microphone after your organization has drawn their attention. It generally involves there already being a person appointed to deal with this who has had training in doing so. If you are not that person your job is "No comment" along with referring them to contact that spokesperson.

410 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:15:12am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

She seems like a douchebag.

Do you think that she might affect policy at Komen, being that she's the VP in charge of Public Policy?

Why do you think Komen's explanation of why this happened changed so rapidly?

411 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:15:34am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

I'm just curious about the truth of the matter. I don't see either side being particularly honest. Abortion is a heated topic and activists on both sides get passionate and start stretching the truth. I'm just wondering if maybe Komen is just trying to do the right thing. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between on this one.

Wow, KT...that's a heaping pile of horseshit if ever there was one.

412 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:15:45am

re: #406 Varek Raith

A pattern emerges.

Hey! Check this out.

413 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:16:03am

re: #408 oaktree

Their leadership and whoever handles their PR was totally unprepared for the blowback that occured. Cluelessness combined with no preparation regarding a communications plan* for this decision. So they're reacting a full cycle behind, scrambling, and thus making themselves look worse.

And with their previous bullying (or possibly success) there are plenty of folk willing to help take Komen down a notch in the public's eye.

* - Another thing from volunteer board training is that there is are certain things to do when the reporter appears with a microphone after your organization has drawn their attention. It generally involves there already being a person appointed to deal with this who has had training in doing so. If you are not that person your job is "No comment" along with referring them to contact that spokesperson.

That's the worst part. They basically went into a 24 hour communication blackout and they *still* couldn't come up with a half-coherent response.

414 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:16:08am

re: #411 darthstar

Wow, KT...that's a heaping pile of horseshit if ever there was one.

A regular old Mittens pile.

//

415 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:16:17am

re: #412 Gus 802

STOP READING MY MIND

416 A Mom Anon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:18:58am

re: #387 Simply Sarah
I don't think some guys get what a visit to PP is and all the services they provide. It's comprehensive medical care for women,often the only care available to them,either for reasons of geography or finances,or both. PP also does pap smears for cervical cancer screenings,another important function,done on site. They give you a voucher that covers the cost or a part of the cost for a mammogram. In my case the mamogram was done at a local hospital for a really reduced rate. The machines used for mammograms are expensive,they are generally only found at hospitals or at large OB/GYN practices.

Many women(insured or not),use their OB/GYN as their primary care physician. Most OB/GYNs will also treat or give info and advice on medical stuff besides all those "lady bits" type of things. So PP is more than just about reproductive health,even though that is their prime function. I had a friend as a teen who had a PP doctor spot a melanoma on her stomach,so the beating up on Planned Parenthood and the rush to defund them is going to have serious long term consequences beyond the obvious reproductive health issues. It needs to stop.

417 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:19:24am

re: #415 Varek Raith

STOP READING MY MIND

Wait, an evil overlord who doesn't have an anti-mind-reading headpiece?

GET HIM!!!

418 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:19:50am

But seriously, there's no "Truth in the middle" here. There's zero question about what PP does and has been doing with the money. There's zero question that PP is by far the best option for this kind of funding and service. There's zero question that Komen unilaterally pulled the rug out from under PP on this. There's not even anything for PP to be lying about.

The only question is over why. At absolute best, it's because the people at Komen are entirely clueless about what's best for women and for preventing and treating breast cancer. More likely, it's because it was a politically calculated move to sever their link with Planned Parenthood and they're trying to use various excuses as cover. Again, there is no middle here.

419 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:20:44am

re: #413 Simply Sarah

That's the worst part. They basically went into a 24 hour communication blackout and they *still* couldn't come up with a half-coherent response.

That could simply be the time required to kick something upstairs in the organization and make a decision on it. Boards don't meet that often and putting together an emergency meeting (even as a conference call) can take time. An Executive Director often has a lot of leeway in handling issues, but (conjecture) this situation may actually be causing a lot of friction with the leadership of Komen and thus things locked up and required board input.

420 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:20:54am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

Truth of the matter:

Komen changes its policy, claiming that it will no longer fund entities that are under investigation.

That change came after a known anti-abortion activist joined Komen in a key leadership role.

Komen announces end of funding to PP affiliates over an ongoing Congressional investigation.

That Congressional investigation is being conducted by a member of Congress whose anti-abortion views are known, and who was doing the investigation at the behest, and on behalf, of other anti-abortion groups.

PP loses $600k+ in Komen funding and cries foul; massive fundraising ensues to make up shortfall.

Komen plays defensive (late at that) claiming that the decision wasn't politically motivated or motivated by anti-abortion views, but insiders claim a different story - that this was motivated by the new hire (Handel).

That you're now seeing other Komen affiliates rebelling against the directive suggests that they see politics in the matter and it undermines their ability to raise funds to ... you know... fight breast cancer.

No matter how you look at this, this whole mess undermines that core mission. Komen has made such a mess of this situation that they can't be trusted on their statements and they will be sure to alienate a significant portion of potential donors no matter what decision they take now (keep the PP funding frozen out, restore it, or some combination of the above). It's a permanent blight on their ability to remain credible.

421 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:21:58am

re: #420 lawhawk

Also: Komen comes up with a new reason why this is happening, unrelated to the old one.

422 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:22:17am

re: #334 Gus 802

In other news I lost my connection last night and decided to immediately go horizontal. Which should explain my sudden disappearance.

I can imagine it:
*static*
-Eh.
*bump*

;)

423 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:22:55am

While we're on the subject of Komen, they've also quietly stopped funding stem cell research.

424 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:23:00am

re: #416 A Mom Anon

I don't think some guys get what a visit to PP is and all the services they provide. It's comprehensive medical care for women,often the only care available to them,either for reasons of geography or finances,or both. PP also does pap smears for cervical cancer screenings,another important function,done on site. They give you a voucher that covers the cost or a part of the cost for a mammogram. In my case the mamogram was done at a local hospital for a really reduced rate. The machines used for mammograms are expensive,they are generally only found at hospitals or at large OB/GYN practices.

Many women(insured or not),use their OB/GYN as their primary care physician. Most OB/GYNs will also treat or give info and advice on medical stuff besides all those "lady bits" type of things. So PP is more than just about reproductive health,even though that is their prime function. I had a friend as a teen who had a PP doctor spot a melanoma on her stomach,so the beating up on Planned Parenthood and the rush to defund them is going to have serious long term consequences beyond the obvious reproductive health issues. It needs to stop.

Well yes, exactly. I haven't used PP myself, but I know so many friends and family members that have. I can only hope that people honestly don't understand the services they provide and just how goddamn important they are. Any talk of "defunding" PP makes my blood absolutely boil.

425 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:23:29am

Komen/Brinker knew exactly what they were getting when they hired Handel. This is all a set of calculated moves and during an election year. Handel's record is clear to anyone that takes 15 minutes to Google her past. They're "trying to do the right thing" in appeasing the pro-life movement and more particularly congress and specifically Florida Republican Cliff Stearns. Everyone at the top of the food chain at Komen are Republican ideologues. Yes, just as much as could be seen on the opposite end with Planned Parenthood. Any attempt to see that this isn't some kind of battle between the left and the right is blind and it is clear that there's more to this then just flippantly assuming Komen is "trying to do the right thing."

426 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:23:38am

re: #422 Sergey Romanov

I can imagine it:
*static*
-Eh.
*bump*

;)

427 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:23:54am

re: #420 lawhawk

Komen hasn't suspended funding to Penn State, which is under actual congressional investigation and not just being targeted by a single anti-choice foe.

428 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:24:04am

re: #100 engineer dog

you mean charlie parker isn't the man of the century???

Reggie Jackson is Mister October.

429 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:24:51am

re: #427 darthstar

Didn't know that (and btw, nice nic logo change!)

430 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:25:37am

re: #428 RayFerd

Reggie Jackson is Mister October.

Joe Dimaggio is Mr Coffee!!

431 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:26:36am

re: #427 darthstar

Komen hasn't suspended funding to Penn State, which is under actual congressional investigation and not just being targeted by a single anti-choice foe.

Image: 243421_1_thumb.jpg

432 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:27:08am

The truth is PP is under attack by conservatives because it has something to do with abortion. Any abortion. The talking point push to push the narrative back to how many abortions PP does has commenced.

The Susan G Komen brand is forever tarnished.

433 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:28:21am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

Well yes, exactly. I haven't used PP myself, but I know so many friends and family members that have. I can only hope that people honestly don't understand the services they provide and just how goddamn important they are. Any talk of "defunding" PP makes my blood absolutely boil.

When I was in grad school I used PP's low cost services for myself and my then gf. The place was always busy with young single moms bringing their kids in for check-ups. Anyone who thinks they only provide women's health services is sadly misinformed.

434 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:29:12am

The Planned Parenthood thing might - possibly, in an extremely strained piece of logic - be explained away. Combined with failing to cut funding to Penn State for being under actual active investigation, AND the fact that they have silently pulled funding from labs that do embryonic stem cell research (another GOP bugaboo), it becomes increasingly clear that they are enacting a political agenda with their funding and are now scrambling desperately to cover up for it.

435 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:29:13am

re: #429 lawhawk

Didn't know that (and btw, nice nic logo change!)

Thanks...my first non-Grateful Dead avatar. Felt this issue was worth it.

436 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:30:22am

re: #420 lawhawk

No matter how you look at this, this whole mess undermines that core mission. Komen has made such a mess of this situation that they can't be trusted on their statements and they will be sure to alienate a significant portion of potential donors no matter what decision they take now (keep the PP funding frozen out, restore it, or some combination of the above). It's a permanent blight on their ability to remain credible.

Agreed. It looks like they might be fucked.

437 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:30:40am

re: #433 darthstar

When I was in grad school I used PP's low cost services for myself and my then gf. The place was always busy with young single moms bringing their kids in for check-ups. Anyone who thinks they only provide women's health services is sadly misinformed.

Even if they did only provider women's health services, that alone should be enough to make everyone appreciate them, women and men. People have mothers, sisters, daughters, girlfriends, friends in general, coworkers, etc. that are women and unless you're utterly selfish you care about their well-being.

438 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:30:42am

re: #435 darthstar

Thanks...my first non-Grateful Dead avatar. Felt this issue was worth it.

Heh. It's my facebook avatar.

439 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:30:51am

re: #432 BigPapa

The Susan G Komen brand is forever tarnished.

And it is a "brand"...

And that's all Komen is – a consulting firm that helps large corporate clients sell more of their products through pinkwashing campaigns. By slathering everything from pasta to baseball bats to perfume to fast food with the Pink Imprimatur, consumers are led to believe that their purchases are making meaningful contributions to breast cancer research. Somewhere down the line a few cents per purchase may trickle into those bloated coffers, but the immediate and motivating effect of that pink packaging is to get you to buy things. In short, Komentm is a group of salespeople selling image.

[Link: www.ginandtacos.com...]

440 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:31:25am

re: #438 Obdicut

Heh. It's my facebook avatar.

I was going to put it there too.

441 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:31:54am

re: #439 darthstar

And it is a "brand"...

[Link: www.ginandtacos.com...]

[Link: tdr.uspto.gov...]

442 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:33:36am

re: #439 darthstar

And it is a "brand"...

[Link: www.ginandtacos.com...]

A brand focused on letting lazy people show how much they "care about helping fight breast cancer" by wearing random pink shit.

443 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:33:38am

re: #441 Gus 802

[Link: tdr.uspto.gov...]

The article I linked points out that they've trademarked "For the Cure" and have a legal team devoted to stopping other charities from using those words because they're "intellectual property"...

444 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:33:53am

re: #441 Gus 802

[Link: tdr.uspto.gov...]

Lizards Who Know should start assembling a vetted list of alternatives, a page perhaps.

445 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:34:52am

re: #430 sattv4u2

Joe Dimaggio is Mr Coffee!!

[Video]

Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
(The anti-Romney before there were anti-Romneys.)
;)

446 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:34:57am

re: #442 Simply Sarah

A brand focused on letting lazy people show how much they "care about helping fight breast cancer" by wearing random pink shit.

This calls for some John Prine

447 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:35:32am

re: #443 darthstar

The article I linked points out that they've trademarked "For the Cure" and have a legal team devoted to stopping other charities from using those words because they're "intellectual property"...

They have a slew of them registered.

448 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:36:05am

re: #440 darthstar

I was going to put it there too.

I would, but my far-right-wing family would realize I'm a closet liberal, and then it would just get ugly.

449 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:36:50am

re: #420 lawhawk

Truth of the matter:

Komen changes its policy, claiming that it will no longer fund entities that are under investigation.

That change came after a known anti-abortion activist joined Komen in a key leadership role.

Komen announces end of funding to PP affiliates over an ongoing Congressional investigation.

That Congressional investigation is being conducted by a member of Congress whose anti-abortion views are known, and who was doing the investigation at the behest, and on behalf, of other anti-abortion groups.

PP loses $600k+ in Komen funding and cries foul; massive fundraising ensues to make up shortfall.

Komen plays defensive (late at that) claiming that the decision wasn't politically motivated or motivated by anti-abortion views, but insiders claim a different story - that this was motivated by the new hire (Handel).

That you're now seeing other Komen affiliates rebelling against the directive suggests that they see politics in the matter and it undermines their ability to raise funds to ... you know... fight breast cancer.

No matter how you look at this, this whole mess undermines that core mission. Komen has made such a mess of this situation that they can't be trusted on their statements and they will be sure to alienate a significant portion of potential donors no matter what decision they take now (keep the PP funding frozen out, restore it, or some combination of the above). It's a permanent blight on their ability to remain credible.

Maybe. I still think the truth is out there. I want to believe.

///

450 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:37:21am

re: #449 Sergey Romanov

Maybe. I still think truth is out there. I want to believe.

//

Shut up, Agent Mulder.

451 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:37:23am

re: #449 Sergey Romanov

Fight the future DAMNIT! /

452 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:37:42am

re: #447 Gus 802

They have a slew of them registered.

Oh, good..."Fart For the Cure" is still available.

453 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:37:43am

Yikes. They registered a ton of them.

454 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:38:08am

re: #452 darthstar

Oh, good..."Fart For the Cure" is still available.

Hang on. Let me check first...

//

455 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:38:29am

re: #453 Gus 802

Yikes. They registered a ton of them.

Of course they did. They wouldn't want their precious image sullied by someone who's actually, you know, doing some good.

456 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:38:49am

re: #452 darthstar

Oh, good..."Fart For the Cure" is still available.

Red beans and rice manufacturers should apply for that one.
/

457 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:39:24am

re: #447 Gus 802

They have a slew of them registered.

Occupy the Cure.

458 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:39:53am

re: #445 oaktree

Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
(The anti-Romney before there were anti-Romneys.)
;)

I know of one place he went

Image: article-0-063E877B000005DC-348_468x402_popup.jpg

459 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:39:59am

But yes, to summarize (In a fairly vulgar manner):
If you fuck with Planned Parenthood, you fuck with women.
If you fuck with women, you fuck with me.
If you fuck with me, well, I don't take very kindly to being fucked with.

460 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:40:06am

re: #455 thedopefishlives

Of course they did. They wouldn't want their precious image sullied by someone who's actually, you know, doing some good.

I wonder how much of their research money is really just going straight to pure pharmaceutical research which they're already invested with? I've already noted that one of their lobbyists worked with Pharma.

461 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:41:01am

re: #450 Varek Raith

Shut up, Agent Mulder.

No! Not until I get to the bottom of this! And even then I will continue to dig!


///

462 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:41:36am
AmandaMarcotte Amanda Marcotte
Komen thing is about more than abortion or Planned Parenthood. It's about whether sexually active women have a right to full health care.
463 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:41:50am

re: #439 darthstar

And that's all Komen is – a consulting firm that helps large corporate clients sell more of their products through pinkwashing campaigns. By slathering everything from pasta to baseball bats to perfume to fast food with the Pink Imprimatur, consumers are led to believe that their purchases are making meaningful contributions to breast cancer research. Somewhere down the line a few cents per purchase may trickle into those bloated coffers, but the immediate and motivating effect of that pink packaging is to get you to buy things. In short, Komentm is a group of salespeople selling image.

THIS.

464 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:44:06am

re: #463 Alouette

Is Komentm the tendency for a group acting like jerks to continue acting like jerks?

(Yes, I know it's a trademark symbol typo.)

465 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:45:15am

KomenTM

Cut and paste does not preserve formatting.

466 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:46:26am

re: #462 publicityStunted

AmandaMarcotte Amanda Marcotte
Komen thing is about more than abortion or Planned Parenthood. It's about whether sexually active women have a right to full health care.

To add, it's not just sexually active ones. It's all women. And some men.

467 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:46:29am

Komen™®

468 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:47:17am

What is the stupidest pink product marketed by BuyPinkShit.com (aka KomenTM)? That pink handgun was really lame.

469 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:49:20am

κ⊗M∈ℵ™©

470 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:49:42am

re: #469 Gus 802

κ⊗M∈ℵ™©

Bastard.

471 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:50:19am

re: #460 Gus 802

I wonder how much of their research money is really just going straight to pure pharmaceutical research which they're already invested with? I've already noted that one of their lobbyists worked with Pharma.

Handel got her big break at Ciba Vision, if that's "pharma" enough.

472 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:51:05am

re: #468 Alouette

What is the stupidest pink product marketed by BuyPinkShit.com (aka KomenTM)? That pink handgun was really lame.

I dunno. I tend to favour those products with scientific evidence linking them to increased rates of breast cancer.

473 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:51:15am

The Internet Phases:

1: Initial outrage.
2: Brief, spirited, but ultimately misguided defense by trolls.
3: Memefication.
4: Brief lull period while disgraced target gathers its broken pieces.
5: Resurgence of memefication.
6: Immortalization as an Internet asshole for all of eternity.

474 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:52:10am

re: #473 thedopefishlives

The Internet Phases:

1: Initial outrage.
2: Brief, spirited, but ultimately misguided defense by trolls.
3: Memefication.
4: Brief lull period while disgraced target gathers its broken pieces.
5: Resurgence of memefication.
6: Immortalization as an Internet asshole for all of eternity.

7: Then it took an arrow in the knee.

475 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:52:19am

re: #471 Decatur Deb

Handel got her big break at Ciba Vision, if that's "pharma" enough.

Which is! A subsidiary of Novartis.

Novartis International AG is a multinational pharmaceutical company based in Basel, Switzerland, ranking number two in sales (46.806 billion US$) among the world-wide industry in 2010.[2]

Novartis manufactures such drugs as clozapine (Clozaril), diclofenac (Voltaren), carbamazepine (Tegretol), valsartan (Diovan), imatinib mesylate and (Gleevec / Glivec). Additional agents include ciclosporin (Neoral / Sandimmun), letrozole (Femara), methylphenidate (Ritalin), terbinafine (Lamisil), and others.

Renamed to Novartis following an acquisition by Ciba-Geigy, it owns Sandoz, a large manufacturer of generic drugs. The company formerly owned the Gerber Products Company, a major infant and baby products producer, but sold it to Nestlé on 1 September 2007.[3][4][5][6]

Novartis is a full member of the European Federation of Pharmaceutical Industries and Associations (EFPIA)[7] and of the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers and Associations (IFPMA).[8]

and...

Novartis was created in 1996 from the merger of Ciba-Geigy and Sandoz Laboratories, both Swiss companies with long histories.

476 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:52:25am

re: #473 thedopefishlives

The Internet Phases:

1: Initial outrage.
2: Brief, spirited, but ultimately misguided defense by trolls.
3: Memefication.
4: Brief lull period while disgraced target gathers its broken pieces.
5: Resurgence of memefication.
6: Immortalization as an Internet asshole for all of eternity.

The Circle of Jerk.

477 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:52:48am

Okay...been away for three days and the dogs want to go to the beach...see you all later.

478 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:53:17am

Good news out of Sinai - two women who were kidnapped near Mt. Sinai and the monastery nearby, have been released. (just a banner on MSNBC).

479 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:53:48am

re: #478 lawhawk

Good news out of Sinai - two women who were kidnapped near Mt. Sinai and the monastery nearby, have been released. (just a banner on MSNBC).

Good news.

480 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:54:04am

re: #469 Gus 802

κ⊗M∈ℵ™©

Looks like the "R" got stuck by the fork a few times, but the "c" got its shields up in time. And the "k" is being targetted!
;)

481 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:55:18am

re: #478 lawhawk

Good news out of Sinai - two women who were kidnapped near Mt. Sinai and the monastery nearby, have been released. (just a banner on MSNBC).

Smart move on their part, given the recent activity in Somalia.

482 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:55:44am

re: #475 Gus 802

Which is! A subsidiary of Novartis.

Novartis International AG is a multinational pharmaceutical company based in Basel, Switzerland, ranking number two in sales (46.806 billion US$) among the world-wide industry in 2010.[2]

and...

And if you get a chance look up Toms River and Ciba-Geigy. Cancer cluster near the Jersey shore.

483 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:56:20am

re: #482 Gus 802

And if you get a chance look up Toms River and Ciba-Geigy. Cancer cluster near the Jersey shore.

Never knew that.

484 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:58:10am

re: #483 Varek Raith

Never knew that.

Yeah it was pretty bad. Mostly affected children. Used to be called Toms River Chemical. Then it became Ciba-Geigy. Guess they changed the name again or was bought out again. Greenpeace used to plug up their outfall pipe that went into the ocean. Treated waste. Allegedly.

485 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:59:06am

re: #472 Simply Sarah

I dunno. I tend to favour those products with scientific evidence linking them to increased rates of breast cancer.

I wonder what the rate of breast cancer is for the workers at the Chinese factories that have to paint all this shit Pink.

487 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 7:59:32am

re: #484 Gus 802

Yeah it was pretty bad. Mostly affected children. Used to be called Toms River Chemical. Then it became Ciba-Geigy. Guess they changed the name again or was bought out again. Greenpeace use to plug up their outfall pipe that went into the ocean. Treated waste. Allegedly.

Shame it didn't give me superpowers.
/

488 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:00:01am

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

[snip]

I just think of them as 'hackers'. There is no organization here that I can see. Anyone can call themselves Anonymous.

I could call myself Anonymous, but I prefer EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE!

489 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:00:10am

re: #476 Decatur Deb

The Circle of Jerk.

The Circle of Derp.

490 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:00:24am

re: #484 Gus 802

Yeah it was pretty bad. Mostly affected children. Used to be called Toms River Chemical. Then it became Ciba-Geigy. Guess they changed the name again or was bought out again. Greenpeace used to plug up their outfall pipe that went into the ocean. Treated waste. Allegedly.

And from a quick look at one of the Google references Union Carbide comes into the picture as well. They don't teach enough about what sort of crap was going on before the EPA was created and the government started to seriously attempt to rein this stuff in.

491 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:05:45am

That's nice finding out you used to live in a chemical wasteland.
/

492 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:06:00am

The Connecticut chapter has also said that it wont pull funding from Planned Parenthood in that state.

The board president of the state Komen chapter, Ann Hogan, said this week that the chapter won’t pull a $38,000 grant that ends in June for Planned Parenthood of Southern New England.

The Connecticut branch has received scores of supportive emails after expressing frustration about the cutoffs and good will toward Planned Parenthood.

493 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:06:19am

re: #490 oaktree

And from a quick look at one of the Google references Union Carbide comes into the picture as well. They don't teach enough about what sort of crap was going on before the EPA was created and the government started to seriously attempt to rein this stuff in.

No, no they don't. Anyone who says, "We were getting along just fine before the EPA," is full of crap. It may be ignorance, but it's still crap.

494 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:07:03am

re: #490 oaktree

And from a quick look at one of the Google references Union Carbide comes into the picture as well. They don't teach enough about what sort of crap was going on before the EPA was created and the government started to seriously attempt to rein this stuff in.

The connections between Big Pharma and Komen are, shall we say, interesting. And in an odd way it's interesting that some of the same companies involved in trying to find a cure for cancer are also the same companies that have been involved with cancer "outbreaks" in the past and produce cancer causing chemicals. Glad I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'd be really busy right now.

495 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:07:46am

re: #491 Varek Raith

That's nice finding out you used to live in a chemical wasteland.
/

Let's go to the beach!

//

496 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:08:30am

Morning all!

I thought this was humorous. The Vatican's map of Europe.

How is everyone?

497 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:08:40am
498 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:09:08am
499 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:10:44am

re: #468 Alouette

BuyPinkShit.com (aka KomenTM)?

I am so stealing that!

500 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:11:13am
501 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:12:12am

re: #499 ggt

I am so stealing that!

Maybe I should register that domain name unless you steal it first?

502 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:12:41am

re: #485 Alouette

I wonder what the rate of breast cancer is for the workers at the Chinese factories that have to paint all this shit Pink.

I just tweeted a paraphrased version of this (had to edit due to 140-char limit). And speaking of tweets, your Koch-Komen page from yesterday was my most retweeted tweet ever. Thanks for the material :)

503 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:13:31am

re: #501 Alouette

Maybe I should register that domain name unless you steal it first?

Nah, go ahead!

504 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:16:01am

re: #503 ggt

Nah, go ahead!

Cost too much for a domain name I'm probably never gonna actually use!

505 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:16:08am

Deanne Napurano
Creative Director, Copywriter at Stone's Throw, Inc.

Deanne Napurano's Overview

Current

Creative Director, Copywriter at Stone's Throw, Inc.

Past

Senior Copywriter at C&G Agency, CIBA-GEIGY
Editor to Junior Copywriter at MED Communications

Deanne Napurano's Volunteer Experience & Causes

Creative Services, Marketing Support and Event Volunteer
Your Dog Is Worth It Too
Health
2006 – present (6 years)

Susan G. Komen for the Cure breast cancer research and animal rescue fundraising annual event

506 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:16:29am

re: #505 Gus 802

“Stone’s Throw…understands corporate positioning,
as well as complex technology and has always demonstrated an ability to balance these aspects effectively in our communications materials.”
Vice President Business Development
Novagali Pharma

507 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:17:30am

Interesting to say the least.

508 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:17:34am

re: #493 thedopefishlives

No, no they don't. Anyone who says, "We were getting along just fine before the EPA," is full of crap. It may be ignorance, but it's still crap.

I'm careful about dumping on corporations and hazardous waste at times. Partially due to knowledge about some chemicals being lacking for a long time (PCPs being one.) And also due to the fact that some corporations inherited contaminated land by purchase that they had not contaminated themselves. And they got sued at a later point due to being the ones with the "deep pockets".*

Though there is also a great deal of abuse out there as well. A lot of guilt, but I'm not in the "all corporations are evil by default " club.

* - Corporation my father worked for bought site in the 50's that had old transformers on it (PCPs). Site was sold in the early 70's with the transformers still there; e.g. corporation did not disturb them, or add to them, and had no scientific knowledge at the time that they were dangerous. Corporation was sued for clean-up costs in the 80s (with my father called on to submit a deposition.)

509 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:17:41am
510 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:18:14am

re: #506 Gus 802

“Stone’s Throw…understands corporate positioning...

I totally read that as "corporate poisoning" at first, and thought, holy crap, they're even more shameless than I could ever imagine...

511 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:18:42am

The Faulty Gene Behind Chronic Myeloid Leukemia

JOHN GOLDMAN, MD: It then became attractive to see whether you could develop basic molecules in the chemical laboratory that would block the action of these kinases. So again, in the early 1990s, a pharmaceutical company in Switzerland, Ciba-Geigy, and many other pharmaceutical companies, started programs of developing small molecules that would inhibit tyrosine kinases. Out of that program came STI-571, signal transduction inhibitor-571, now known as imatinib.

512 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:19:25am

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to [Link: www.internic.net...]
for detailed information.

Domain Name: FARTFORTHECURE.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: [Link: registrar.godaddy.com...]
Name Server: NS21.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS22.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 19-may-2011
Creation Date: 18-may-2010
Expiration Date: 18-may-2012

Last update of whois database: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:17:36 UTC


Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
in the "registrant" field. In most cases, GoDaddy.com, LLC
is not the registrant of domain names listed in this database.


Registrant:
EXTRA FUTURE
4800 Erie Dr
Buchanan, Michigan 49107
United States

Registered through: Go Daddy
Domain Name: FARTFORTHECURE.COM
Created on: 18-May-10
Expires on: 18-May-12
Last Updated on: 19-May-11

Administrative Contact:
Nelson, Christian zero@zerolives.org
EXTRA FUTURE
4800 Erie Dr
Buchanan, Michigan 49107
United States
[no phone numbers allowed] Fax --

Technical Contact:
Nelson, Christian zero@zerolives.org
EXTRA FUTURE
4800 Erie Dr
Buchanan, Michigan 49107
United States
[no phone numbers allowed] Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS21.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS22.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

513 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:19:29am

re: #510 publicityStunted

I totally read that as "corporate poisoning" at first, and thought, holy crap, they're even more shameless than I could ever imagine...

Well that's what you do when your corporation has been poisoning the population. You hire a PR firm. ;)

514 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:20:04am

re: #508 oaktree

I'm careful about dumping on corporations and hazardous waste at times. Partially due to knowledge about some chemicals being lacking for a long time (PCPs being one.) And also due to the fact that some corporations inherited contaminated land by purchase that they had not contaminated themselves. And they got sued at a later point due to being the ones with the "deep pockets".*

Though there is also a great deal of abuse out there as well. A lot of guilt, but I'm not in the "all corporations are evil by default " club.

* - Corporation my father worked for bought site in the 50's that had old transformers on it (PCPs). Site was sold in the early 70's with the transformers still there; e.g. corporation did not disturb them, or add to them, and had no scientific knowledge at the time that they were dangerous. Corporation was sued for clean-up costs in the 80s (with my father called on to submit a deposition.)

I worked for BASF Wyandotte for a couple of years in the '80's. Wrote some totally non-Y2K-compliant code while I was there, because we had to conserve 10's of K of RAM.

515 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:20:13am

re: #512 negativ

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to [Link: www.internic.net...]
for detailed information.

Domain Name: FARTFORTHECURE.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: [Link: registrar.godaddy.com...]
Name Server: NS21.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS22.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 19-may-2011
Creation Date: 18-may-2010
Expiration Date: 18-may-2012

>> Last update of whois database: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:17:36 UTC

too funny!

516 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:21:54am
Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to [Link: www.internic.net...]
for detailed information.

No match for domain "BUYPINKSHIT.COM".

Up for grabs!

517 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:22:57am

BUYPINKSHITFORTHECURE.COM
is available. Just $9.99*

518 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:23:26am

Breaking News
@BreakingNews Breaking News
BREAKING: Komen apologizes for 'recent decisions,' pledges to continue funding Planned Parenthood - @dallas_news bit.ly/wi6OlJ

519 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:23:36am

Kabloonk!

520 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:23:38am

re: #516 Alouette

Up for grabs!

go for it! Make it a page linking articles that expose Susan G Komen.

521 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:24:31am

re: #514 Alouette

I worked for BASF Wyandotte for a couple of years in the '80's. Wrote some totally non-Y2K-compliant code while I was there, because we had to conserve 10's of K of RAM.

JOB CREATOR!
(for the late 90s at least)

;)

I had input on some small applications at the design stage in the early 90s and "won" arguments that included making their date storage Y2K compliant. Counter argument was that we had a 7-year software cycle and that the code would be gone by 2000. One of those apps lasted until 2005 and only went away due to the MicroVAX it ran on being pulled.

522 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:24:53am

@msnbc msnbc.com
In reversal, Susan G. Komen For The Cure says it will continue to fund Planned Parenthood on.msnbc.com/4dpW6f

523 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:24:58am

re: #517 Alouette

BUYPINKSHITFORTHECURE.COM
is available. Just $9.99*

I'll pitch in --can I donate thru the Zionist Mall?

524 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:25:59am

Just when I was about to discover the great Ciba-Geigy/Komen/Big Pharma conspiracy! Too late! This will not stop me!

//

525 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:26:31am

LOL.
Stupid creep Zombie bought a 1970s "Ice Age is coming"-type popular (i.e. non-scientific) book, scanned several pages and claims that they prove AGW has been a political hoax all along.
And he's getting featured at WastedUeberWingnutToilet.

526 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:26:33am

Komen has reversed their decision. No word on the details yet.

527 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:26:50am

re: #520 ggt

go for it! Make it a page linking articles that expose Susan G Komen.

I'm feeling way too cheap to buy a domain name. Anyway, wouldn't a page that makes fun of all the lame pink products (like the pink handgun) be, in effect, PROMOTING those products?

528 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:27:18am

re: #522 Gus 802

Wow. What a PR disaster. Lessons are going to be taught in business school about this.

529 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:28:06am

re: #528 Obdicut

Wow. What a PR disaster. Lessons are going to be taught in business school about this.

The internet played a role that's for sure! Pressure baby, pressure!

530 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:28:08am

re: #521 oaktree

JOB CREATOR!
(for the late 90s at least)

;)

I had input on some small applications at the design stage in the early 90s and "won" arguments that included making their date storage Y2K compliant. Counter argument was that we had a 7-year software cycle and that the code would be gone by 2000. One of those apps lasted until 2005 and only went away due to the MicroVAX it ran on being pulled.

Aah, MicroVAX, brings back memories. I remember how excited we all were when we got our MicroVAX to replace the PDP-11.

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:28:58am

re: #526 Gus 802

Komen has reversed their decision. No word on the details yet.

"We will not be pressured! We'll stand tall!"
Or whatevs that lady was saying.

532 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:29:22am

Statement from Susan G. Komen Board of Directors and Founder and CEO Nancy G. Brinker
February 3, 2012

We want to apologize to the American public for recent decisions that cast doubt upon our commitment to our mission of saving women’s lives.

The events of this week have been deeply unsettling for our supporters, partners and friends and all of us at Susan G. Komen. We have been distressed at the presumption that the changes made to our funding criteria were done for political reasons or to specifically penalize Planned Parenthood. They were not.

Our original desire was to fulfill our fiduciary duty to our donors by not funding grant applications made by organizations under investigation. We will amend the criteria to make clear that disqualifying investigations must be criminal and conclusive in nature and not political. That is what is right and fair.

Our only goal for our granting process is to support women and families in the fight against breast cancer. Amending our criteria will ensure that politics has no place in our grant process. We will continue to fund existing grants, including those of Planned Parenthood, and preserve their eligibility to apply for future grants, while maintaining the ability of our affiliates to make funding decisions that meet the needs of their communities.

It is our hope and we believe it is time for everyone involved to pause, slow down and reflect on how grants can most effectively and directly be administered without controversies that hurt the cause of women. We urge everyone who has participated in this conversation across the country over the last few days to help us move past this issue. We do not want our mission marred or affected by politics – anyone’s politics.

Starting this afternoon, we will have calls with our network and key supporters to refocus our attention on our mission and get back to doing our work. We ask for the public’s understanding and patience as we gather our Komen affiliates from around the country to determine how to move forward in the best interests of the women and people we serve.

We extend our deepest thanks for the outpouring of support we have received from so many in the past few days and we sincerely hope that these changes will be welcomed by those who have expressed their concern.

533 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:30:05am

re: #523 ggt

I'll pitch in --can I donate thru the Zionist Mall?

Sure, but I'll probably just keep it. :)

534 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:30:56am

re: #533 Alouette

Sure, but I'll probably just keep it. :)

You too want 400K/year?

535 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:31:46am

re: #526 Gus 802

Komen has reversed their decision. No word on the details yet.

They've fully politicized themselves regardless and will continue receiving flak from now on in any case.

It will be interesting in seeing what sort of overhaul now takes place in their board and executive leadership. I don't think there's any way it stays intact after the last few days and especially after doing a 180 in the policy decision.

536 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:31:52am

re: #527 Alouette

I'm feeling way too cheap to buy a domain name. Anyway, wouldn't a page that makes fun of all the lame pink products (like the pink handgun) be, in effect, PROMOTING those products?

Yes, you are right. I still like it tho!

537 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:32:13am

re: #535 oaktree

They've fully politicized themselves regardless and will continue receiving flak from now on in any case.

It will be interesting in seeing what sort of overhaul now takes place in their board and executive leadership. I don't think there's any way it stays intact after the last few days and especially after doing a 180 in the policy decision.

Here come the pro-lifers!

//

538 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:32:16am

re: #534 Sergey Romanov

You too want 400K/year?

Of course, but then I would have to file a full 990 instead of a 990-N.

539 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:32:24am

They're gonna freak out.

540 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:32:34am

re: #532 Gus 802

Statement from Susan G. Komen Board of Directors and Founder and CEO Nancy G. Brinker
February 3, 2012

"We extend our deepest thanks for the outpouring of support we have received from so many in the past few days and we sincerely hope that these changes will be welcomed by those who have expressed their concern."

Translation

"Yee gods, look how many of you morelocks were willing to turn on us over this and give directly to PP instead!"

541 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:32:37am

Good result from all this:
YOU DON'T FUCK WITH PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

542 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:32:39am

re: #522 Gus 802

@msnbc msnbc.com
In reversal, Susan G. Komen For The Cure says it will continue to fund Planned Parenthood on.msnbc.com/4dpW6f

Yep.

Susan G. Komen for the Cure to restore Planned Parenthood breast cancer screening funds, Sen. Frank Lautenberg says.

PR Clusterfuck.

543 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:33:13am

@Gus_802 Gus
@komenforthecure @NancyGBrinker Good news. Thank you.

544 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:33:25am

re: #541 Sergey Romanov

Good result from all this:
YOU DON'T FUCK WITH PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

PLANNED PARENTHOOD EMPOWERS YOU TO FUCK WITH THE PARTNER OF YOUR CHOICE.

545 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:33:28am

re: #532 Gus 802

Too bad they already changed excuses for why they were doing it. They're going to need to rewrite the apology slightly to take that into account.

And they still have a senior VP who thinks Planned Parenthood is a "pro-abortion" group.

546 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:33:58am

re: #545 Obdicut

Too bad they already changed excuses for why they were doing it. They're going to need to rewrite the apology slightly to take that into account.

And they still have a senior VP who thinks Planned Parenthood is a "pro-abortion" group.

Yeah. They should dump Handel that's for sure.

547 brennant  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:34:10am

Komen looked at their fundraising future and saw a giant black hole. Not surprising they reversed their position.

548 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:34:20am

re: #545 Obdicut

Too bad they already changed excuses for why they were doing it. They're going to need to rewrite the apology slightly to take that into account.

And they still have a senior VP who thinks Planned Parenthood is a "pro-abortion" group.

It does appear that at least they stopped digging.

549 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:34:22am

re: #544 Alouette

PLANNED PARENTHOOD EMPOWERS YOU TO FUCK WITH THE PARTNER OF YOUR CHOICE.

That too.

550 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:34:25am

Thank you to the Lizards who stood by Planned Parenthood and shared their views on fb and elsewhere.

Individuals can make a difference.

551 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:34:52am

Maybe Planned Parenthood can launch a marketing campaign and sell products colored, oh I don't know, taupe or ecru?

552 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:35:19am

re: #550 ggt

Thank you to the Lizards who stood by Planned Parenthood and shared their views on fb and elsewhere.

Individuals can make a difference.

Absolutely. It's a real time world these days.

553 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:35:46am

re: #551 Alouette

Maybe Planned Parenthood can launch a marketing campaign and sell products colored, oh I don't know, taupe or ecru?

Eh. Takes them away from their core mission.

554 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:36:37am

re: #545 Obdicut

Too bad they already changed excuses for why they were doing it. They're going to need to rewrite the apology slightly to take that into account.

And they still have a senior VP who thinks Planned Parenthood is a "pro-abortion" group.

True enough but on the other hand she's just gotten metaphorically caught with her hand in the cookie jar and proven she's powerless to live up to her promises to the pro lifers who supported her....

Something tells me that may bring about its own punishment before long.

555 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:36:50am

re: #548 oaktree

It does appear that at least they stopped digging.

Well, this bit:

It is our hope and we believe it is time for everyone involved to pause, slow down and reflect on how grants can most effectively and directly be administered without controversies that hurt the cause of women

Is still digging, to me, though sideways. That seems like they're saying controversy is something to be avoided, rather than something that's goddamn inevitable.

You give money to Planned Parenthood, there will be controversy. You stop giving it, there will be controversy. That's not the fault of the organization. What's important isn't avoiding controversy, but making the right decisions, no matter if they cause controversy.

556 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:36:57am

re: #553 oaktree

Eh. Takes them away from their core mission.

I"d love to see them investigated to see if they still qualify as a not-for-profit under IRS guidelines.

557 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:37:02am

re: #534 Sergey Romanov

You too want 400K/year?

I couldn't afford the cut in pay!
/

558 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:37:12am

I'd actually buy an appliance that was taupe or ecru, it would match my kitchen decor much better than any of that pink shit.

559 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:37:12am

re: #532 Gus 802

Statement from Susan G. Komen Board of Directors and Founder and CEO Nancy G. Brinker
February 3, 2012

So whatever happened to the "economic" explanation? Flip-flop. Flip-flop.

560 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:37:44am

re: #532 Gus 802

Statement from Susan G. Komen Board of Directors and Founder and CEO Nancy G. Brinker
February 3, 2012

Smart move.

561 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:38:13am

re: #551 Alouette

Maybe Planned Parenthood can launch a marketing campaign and sell products colored, oh I don't know, taupe or ecru?

Fusha?

562 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:38:28am

I wonder if Komen's pink merch is made in Chinese factories where the workers are exposed to carcinogenic chemicals on a daily basis. Hmm. What are the odds?

563 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:38:33am

re: #552 Gus 802

Absolutely. It's a real time world these days.

Age of the geek baby!

564 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:39:13am

re: #555 Obdicut

Well, this bit:


Is still digging, to me, though sideways. That seems like they're saying controversy is something to be avoided, rather than something that's goddamn inevitable.

You give money to Planned Parenthood, there will be controversy. You stop giving it, there will be controversy. That's not the fault of the organization. What's important isn't avoiding controversy, but making the right decisions, no matter if they cause controversy.

Sideways better than down. And who do you ever see totally abandon a mine at the drop of a hat other than a politican?
/

565 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:39:25am

re: #559 Sergey Romanov

So whatever happened to the "economic" explanation? Flip-flop. Flip-flop.

Yeah. It certainly is. At this point though it's probably best to not ask too many questions. As long as they stick to it. Plus PP now has double the funding. Although now I picture Mike Bloomberg thinking, "wait a minute can I have my $250,000 back?" ;)

566 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:40:03am

re: #559 Sergey Romanov

So whatever happened to the "economic" explanation? Flip-flop. Flip-flop.

It was bullshit and everyone, including Susan G. Komen knew it.

This, if anything, is a chink in the pro-lifer's armor. Perhaps some of them (one or two) will realize that Planned Parenthood is not an abortion factory, but a full service medical facility dedicated to health of women and BABIES.

The whole point of contraception, in the end, is to help women stay healthy, space their pregnancies if desired, to have healthy babies and mothers that live to raise them.

567 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:40:17am

re: #561 jamesfirecat

Fusha?

Fushia.

568 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:40:18am

re: #564 oaktree

Sideways better than down. And who do you ever see totally abandon a mine at the drop of a hat other than a politican?
/

Dwarfs do it when they hit happy fun stuff.

569 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:40:40am

re: #565 Gus 802

Yeah. It certainly is. At this point though it's probably best to not ask too many questions. As long as they stick to it. Plus PP now has double the funding. Although now I picture Mike Bloomberg thinking, "wait a minute can I have my $250,000 back?" ;)

Well, there's always a gap between "pledged" money and checks received in the non-profit world.

570 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:40:43am

re: #568 jamesfirecat

Dwarfs do it when they hit happy fun stuff.

DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL.

571 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:41:23am

re: #569 oaktree

Well, there's always a gap between "pledged" money and checks received in the non-profit world.

A "celebrity" pledge can generate a lot of donations from non-celebrities.

572 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:41:50am

re: #568 jamesfirecat

Dwarfs do it when they hit happy fun stuff.

That's due to needing to prepare the brewery and dining room for an influx of visitors.

573 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:41:59am

List of ribbon colors and the causes they represent. (Some ribbon colors have multiple causes associated with them)

Looks like taupe and ecru are still up for grabs.

574 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:42:08am

re: #567 ggt

Fushia.

No,, he was talking about Fusha,,, Sam Fusha ,, he's the neighborhood produce guy!!

//

575 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:42:33am

re: #567 ggt

Fushia.

Fuchsia.

576 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:42:44am

re: #574 sattv4u2

No,, he was talking about Fusha,,, Sam Fusha ,, he's the neighborhood produce guy!!

//

My apologies to Sam.

:0

577 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:43:09am

re: #575 thedopefishlives

Fuchsia.

You looked it up, huh?

578 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:43:52am

re: #577 ggt

You looked it up, huh?

Hit the spell checker. I couldn't even spell it.

579 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:44:06am

I'll wait until after my attorney's analyze the recent press release from Komen.

//

580 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:45:14am

re: #571 ggt

A "celebrity" pledge can generate a lot of donations from non-celebrities.

Yep. And a stated thing in planning capital campaigns is having 60-70% of the funds already pledged from major donors before you even announce the campaign to the public and organization. You use the announcement to trigger the last 30% (plus extra) of the contributions and also land the non-profit a "success" that helps with moral and continued contributions to reinforce the success.

Fund raising is a psychological game as much as an organizational one.

581 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:45:23am

Good morning lizards!

582 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:45:59am

Ribbons! I blame Tony Orlando and Dawn.

583 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:46:23am

re: #582 Gus 802

Ribbons! I blame Tony Orlando and Dawn.

[Video]

I agree, they are to blame.

584 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:48:13am

NBC2 Investigates: Voter fraud

Two elections supervisors are taking action after an NBC2 investigation uncovers flawed record keeping and human error allowing people who are not citizens of the United States to vote.

No one knows how widespread this problem is, because county election supervisors have no way to track non-citizens who live here.

So NBC2 did something election officials never thought to do, and found them on our own.

"I vote every year," Hinako Dennett told NBC2.

The Cape Coral resident is not a US citizen, yet she's registered to vote.

NBC2 found Dennett after reviewing her jury excusal form. She told the Clerk of Court she couldn't serve as a juror because she wasn't a U.S. citizen.

We found her name, and nearly a hundred others like her, in the database of Florida registered voters.

Naples resident Yvonne Wigglesworth is also a not a citizen, but is registered to vote. She claims she doesn't know how she got registered.

"I have no idea. I mean, how am I supposed to know."

Records show Wigglesworth voted six times in elections dating back eleven years.

"I know you cannot vote before you become a citizen, so I never tried to do anything like that," Samuel Lincoln said.

He isn't a U.S. citizen either, but the Jamaican national says he doesn't know how he ended up registered to vote.

"It's their mistake, not mine," said Lincoln.

We obtained a copy of his 2007 voter registration application. It's clearly shows he marked U.S. citizen.

"This is under oath, that document, they are attesting that it is true and by falsifying, it's a third degree felony," said Tim Durham, Collier County's chief elections supervisor.

County supervisors of elections tell me they have no way to verify citizenship. Under the 1992 Motor Voter Law, they're not required to ask for proof.

"We have no policing authority. We don't have any way of bouncing that information off any other database that would give us that information," said Lee County Supervisor of Elections Sharon Harrington.

NBC2: Does that need to change??
Harrington: "I think it needs to be looked at."

Until that happens, the only way supervisors of elections can investigate voter fraud is if they get a tip.

585 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:50:24am
586 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:51:03am

re: #566 ggt

It was bullshit and everyone, including Susan G. Komen knew it.

Agent Mulder believed it :(

587 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:52:48am

Disaster averted, we can now resume our regularly scheduled cuteness forum.

588 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:54:19am

Have a great day all!

589 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:55:12am

re: #587 ggt

Disaster averted, we can now resume our regularly scheduled cuteness forum.

This is TEH CUTE!

Reaches for the baby block, but then decides to go straight to the BLINKING RED LIGHT!

590 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:56:49am

re: #589 Alouette

Aw!!

Camera=/=Toy

591 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:57:18am

Stupid hamsters (or internet connection). Won't let me correct spelling error in #580 (moral -> morale). Pencil just hangs me up with the frisbee o'doom and I have to reload the page.

592 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:57:55am

re: #591 oaktree

Stupid hamsters (or internet connection). Won't let me correct spelling error in #580 (moral -> morale). Pencil just hangs me up with the frisbee o'doom and I have to reload the page.

Stop using cheap pencils!
/

593 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:59:23am

re: #591 oaktree

Too many posts on here. Time for new page.

594 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 8:59:56am

re: #592 sattv4u2

Stop using cheap pencils!
/

Need to find that Viagra (tm) brand #2 pencil, do I?
//

595 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:00:01am

re: #589 Alouette

This is TEH CUTE!

[Video]Reaches for the baby block, but then decides to go straight to the BLINKING RED LIGHT!

More cuteness!

596 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:00:18am

Seeing some skepticism about this reversal on Twitter. Easiest way around this is to wait for a reaction from Planned Parenthood.

597 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:01:39am

re: #596 Gus 802

Seeing some skepticism about this reversal on Twitter. Easiest way around this is to wait for a reaction from Planned Parenthood.

Only time will tell. Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath. Also, they are still pulling their funding from labs that do stem-cell research, which I think should be reversed as well. It just hasn't gotten nearly as much play.

598 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:02:19am

re: #596 Gus 802

Good idea to see what they say.

599 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:05:54am

re: #596 Gus 802

Seeing some skepticism about this reversal on Twitter. Easiest way around this is to wait for a reaction from Planned Parenthood.

My guess is that PP will praise the move but a lot of the activists and disgruntled insiders will not be appeased for long. I get the feeling that a lot of this outrage is to get the wingnut VP fired. They should probably dump her anyways, she's a distraction. It would also allow them to streamline their funding practices (if that's really their intention) without as much controversy.

600 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:06:15am

re: #597 thedopefishlives

Only time will tell. Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath. Also, they are still pulling their funding from labs that do stem-cell research, which I think should be reversed as well. It just hasn't gotten nearly as much play.

This event has turned on some pretty bright lights to shine on Komen in a way that could make regular donors and supporters back off. I learned a whole lot more about the organization that, in spite of their PP grant reversal, will forever diminish the value of the name and organization.

601 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:06:35am

re: #596 Gus 802

Seeing some skepticism about this reversal on Twitter. Easiest way around this is to wait for a reaction from Planned Parenthood.

I expect the reaction is going to run the full spectrum from "How dare they back down!" through "Let's go back to status quo and forget this ever happened" to "Entire Komen board and leadership should resign over this!".

602 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:06:58am

re: #599 Killgore Trout

My guess is that PP will praise the move but a lot of the activists and disgruntles insiders will not be appeased for long. I get the feeling that a lot of this outrage is to get the wingnut VP fired. They should probably dump her anyways, she's a distraction. It would also allow them to streamline their funding practices (if that's really their intention) without as much controversy.

My thought is that Karen Handel shouldn't be fired but should instead step down. That is, resign. Start from there.

603 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:08:05am

re: #600 allegro

What this guy said.

I was unaware of the frivolous lawsuit issue (among others).

604 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:09:12am

re: #596 Gus 802

Seeing some skepticism about this reversal on Twitter. Easiest way around this is to wait for a reaction from Planned Parenthood.

Personally, I don't give a damn if they've suddenly figured out that they were going to lose a ton of money "reversed" their decision. The damage is done, and a lot of people have now looked behind the curtain to see what's really been going on over there. I'll still never buy another pink ribbon product or give them any support.

Now they've gone and pissed off their new fair-weather anti-choice fans who were suddenly thrilled with the defunding of PP but are now mad at SGK for "caving into political pressure" and are demanding their money back.

It's not often that a company goes out of their way to totally destroy their brand like Susan G. Komen did, but now I guarantee they'll be a business school case study for years to come.

605 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:10:16am

re: #604 Lidane

It's not often that a company goes out of their way to totally destroy their brand like Susan G. Komen did, but now I guarantee they'll be a business school case study for years to come.

And this class is what we call committing Corporate Seppeku....

606 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:10:20am

re: #604 Lidane

Personally, I don't give a damn if they've suddenly figured out that they were going to lose a ton of money "reversed" their decision. The damage is done, and a lot of people have now looked behind the curtain to see what's really been going on over there. I'll still never buy another pink ribbon product or give them any support.

Now they've gone and pissed off their new fair-weather anti-choice fans who were suddenly thrilled with the defunding of PP but are now mad at SGK for "caving into political pressure" and are demanding their money back.

It's not often that a company goes out of their way to totally destroy their brand like Susan G. Komen did, but now I guarantee they'll be a business school case study for years to come.

Business Management 101: How not to alienate your entire customer base in a single 24-hour period.

607 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:11:08am

re: #513 Gus 802

Well that's what you do when your corporation has been poisoning the population. You hire a PR firm. ;)

For giggles, look up [Monsanto Solutia] some day.

608 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:12:57am

re: #605 jamesfirecat

That should SO be a term in Business lingo.

609 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:13:37am

re: #599 Killgore Trout

My guess is that PP will praise the move but a lot of the activists and disgruntled insiders will not be appeased for long. I get the feeling that a lot of this outrage is to get the wingnut VP fired. They should probably dump her anyways, she's a distraction. It would also allow them to streamline their funding practices (if that's really their intention) without as much controversy.

She is not only a distraction, she is incompetent. I would guess they will quietly "accept her resignation" in the near future and try to rehabilitate their image.

610 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:13:37am

re: #604 Lidane

Right - who's going to make continued donations to SGK when they know they'll be trying everything to undermine the pro-choice agenda, as long as they think they can get away with it?

611 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:14:10am

re: #608 ProLifeLiberal

That should SO be a term in Business lingo.

It fits well with Komen's situation where it has so dishonored itself in the eyes of its investors (both pro and anti choice now) that it should just cease to exist gracefully.

612 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:14:21am

re: #610 iossarian

Right - who's going to make continued to donations to SGK when they know they'll be trying everything to undermine the pro-choice agenda, as long as they think they can get away with it?

Well, rabid right-wing fundamentalists will. I know some of my Facebook friends expressed approval for SGK's actions.

613 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:15:20am

re: #611 jamesfirecat

It fits well with Korman's situation where it has so dishonored itself in the eyes of its investors (both pro and anti choice now) that it should just cease to exist gracefully.

I'm loving the misspellings of Komen, by the way. (Not to pick on you, but I've seen it spelled wrongly in Proper Establishment Media outlets, where they pay for sub-editors and everything!)

614 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:15:51am

Truther Roseanne Barr is running for president...

Television star Roseanne Barr is officially running as a Green Party candidate for the presidency, she announced Friday via Twitter.

Barr has filed papers with the Federal Election Commission. She tweeted that while she expects Jill Stein, the Green Party front-runner, to win the nomination and plans to support her, she wants to "bring press attention" to the party's platform "and speak at its convention. I want young people to know there is a new way for us to go."

Barr is best known for her hit 1990s show "Roseanne." She said in August on Jay Leno's "Tonight" program that she would run for the "Green Tea Party" nomination and has since appeared at Occupy Wall Street protests.

The Green Party can really pick em.

615 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:16:42am

re: #607 Decatur Deb

For giggles, look up [Monsanto Solutia] some day.

Yep. And expect all the gas suppliers to pull the same divestiture stuff with their subsidiary companies that will do gas well fracking. It's sort of like an industrial SuperPac; they do the dirty work and you can claim that your hands are clean and not liable.

616 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:17:33am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

Truther Roseanne Barr is running for president...

The Green Party can really pick em.

They haven't "picked" anyone. This is a publicity stunt.

617 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:17:43am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

Truther Roseanne Barr is running for president...

The Green Party can really pick em.

I'm sure "The Forward" will happily endorse her.

618 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:18:49am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

In Europe, the Green Parties are fairly serious, and don't pull stunts like this.

Why can't the Green Party here act the same way?

I wouldn't be Green Party though, even in Europe. I'm a Social Democrat. (Yay for Red Roses)

619 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:18:53am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

Truther Roseanne Barr is running for president...

The Green Party can really pick em.

The Green Party is one of the worst things to ever happen to environmentalism.

620 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:19:29am

re: #614 NJDhockeyfan

Truther Roseanne Barr is running for president...

The Green Party can really pick em.

Green Party: attracts marginal publicity stunt candidates who won't win or much influence the national conversation.

Republican Party: attracts mainstream heavily-backed billionaire candidates who associate with white supremacists and homophobes, and "don't worry much" about the poor.

621 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:20:13am

re: #619 Obdicut

The Green Party is one of the worst things to ever happen to environmentalism.

And to left wing politics. Every four years they're guaranteed to pick a loon to run as their candidate, just like the Libertarians are guaranteed to pick a nutjob of their own.

622 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:20:25am

I'm seeing a couple of things today that give me hope that the tide is turning against the bigots, misogynists, and religious right bullies. This Komen reversal is one. It was clearly not the result of a realization that they had made the wrong decision for moral reasons but that the massive and angry pushback was killing their brand and potentially their livelihoods.

The other one is JC Penneys decision to hire Ellen Degeneres as their spokesperson. Naturally, the AFA assholes "Million Moms" (which is probably a couple of hundred pasty old dudes in reality) are demanding that Ellen be dumped because she's openly gay. JCP is standing firmly behind her and basically swatting AFA away like so many annoying gnats. Apparently JCP is getting a tremendous amount of open support.

Delightful.

623 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:20:39am

re: #618 ProLifeLiberal

In Europe, the Green Parties are fairly serious, and don't pull stunts like this.

Why can't the Green Party here act the same way?

Because the US political system is entirely dominated by moneyed interests, under the guise of "freedom of speech".

No money? No representation.

624 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:21:33am

re: #622 allegro

The other one is JC Penneys decision to hire Ellen Degeneres as their spokesperson. Naturally, the AFA assholes "Million Moms" (which is probably a couple of hundred pasty old dudes in reality) are demanding that Ellen be dumped because she's openly gay. JCP is standing firmly behind her and basically swatting AFA away like so many annoying gnats. Apparently JCP is getting a tremendous amount of open support.

Delightful.

I really, really HATE that JC Penney commercial of people screaming.

625 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:22:27am

re: #618 ProLifeLiberal

In Europe, the Green Parties are fairly serious, and don't pull stunts like this.

Why can't the Green Party here act the same way?

I wouldn't be Green Party though, even in Europe. I'm a Social Democrat. (Yay for Red Roses)

With Europe's proportional election system, smaller parties can actually gain seats. Here it's winner-take-all, and so we have two viable parties. Real environmentalists, who wish to actually achieve something, become Democrats.

626 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:23:33am

re: #624 Alouette

I really, really HATE that JC Penney commercial of people screaming.

Join the club. Here's the signup sheet.

627 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:24:56am

re: #624 Alouette

I really, really HATE that JC Penney commercial of people screaming.

I am so with you there. I can't hit the mute button fast enough. Who ever thought that was a good idea?

628 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:25:06am

re: #623 iossarian

Solution:

We need to revamp Public Financing, get Thomas (maybe Scalia) impeached, overturn Citizen's United, and allow only living people (not Corporations) to donate to campaigns, and only in very limited amounts.

629 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:25:10am

re: #626 thedopefishlives

Join the club. Here's the signup sheet.

I think about all the aspiring actors and actresses who auditioned for that commercial and gave their all...

630 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:26:00am

re: #625 EmmmieG

We need the Proportional system here in the US.

In the way I would want it handled, Gerrymandering would go bye-bye.

631 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:26:14am

re: #619 Obdicut

The Green Party is one of the worst things to ever happen to environmentalism.

She's got Cindy Sheehan's support.

In the last election, I supported the Green Party candidate, Cynthia McKinney and her running mate, Rosa Clemente. Unfortunately, the Party is not entirely functional (which party is?), even if many of us do support its 10 Key Principles.

I have also been impressed by the other woman seeking the nomination, Jill Stein--she is bright, articulate, well-informed, truly progressive and dedicated to public service--but if push came to shove, I would support Roseanne.

632 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:26:16am

re: #627 allegro

I am so with you there. I can't hit the mute button fast enough. Who ever thought that was a good idea?

The one we always hit the mute button on is the Pizza Hut commercial with the guy singing. The song is just flat-out annoying.

633 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:26:25am

re: #627 allegro

I am so with you there. I can't hit the mute button fast enough. Who ever thought that was a good idea?

I don't even get it. They are all horror screaming at sales. Why?

634 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:26:55am

re: #630 ProLifeLiberal

We need the Proportional system here in the US.

In the way I would want it handled, Gerrymandering would go bye-bye.

No! It is horrible! Look at how fucked up Israel is!

635 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:27:49am

re: #630 ProLifeLiberal

Proportional increases the number of truly radical reps and senators, even beyond what we have now.

I like Condorcet Voting, but it's too hard to explain to people.

636 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:29:00am

re: #633 Alouette

I don't even get it. They are all horror screaming at sales. Why?

I thought they were screaming because they only found out about the sales after they were over. Or something. I dunno. The ad sucks and I hope its gone forever since I think it was advertising for their sale on 2/1.

LOL The fact that I know that means the ad worked doesn't it.

637 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:29:29am

re: #619 Obdicut

The Green Party is one of the worst things to ever happen to environmentalism.

Yeah. It fast became an "everything under the sun" party. It was certainly different back in the 70s and 80s and much of it if not all was about environmentalism.

638 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:29:41am

I think all the personalities taking over the department stores is tacky. I went to Kohl's with my wife and the whole place was full of personality branded shit. The ENTIRE home section was green with Food Network branded stuff, all the clothes branded with celebrities etc.

639 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:30:24am

re: #634 Alouette

Europe is doing just fine.

And, and least in Sweden, when nutty party got above the vote number for seats, the country had a collective aneurysm, and many wanted to cede the southern most area of the country to Denmark.

It CAN work.

640 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:30:25am

Here's something from PP:

@PPact Planned Parenthood
Komen has reversed their decision! We look forward to continuing partnership. Thanks to all for your voice and support! [Link: bit.ly...]

641 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:30:36am

re: #638 Amory Blaine

I think all the personalities taking over the department stores is tacky. I went to Kohl's with my wife and the whole place was full of personality branded shit. The ENTIRE home section was green with Food Network branded stuff, all the clothes branded with celebrities etc.

And what was the % of Komen branded pink shit?

642 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:31:13am

re: #641 Alouette

IDK it was Christmas time.

643 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:31:18am

re: #633 Alouette

I don't even get it. They are all horror screaming at sales. Why?

Exhibit A in why I don't own a TV.

Clever commercials make youtube, and I can watch them there, like this one:

644 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:31:40am

re: #639 ProLifeLiberal

Europe is doing just fine.

And, and least in Sweden, when nutty party got above the vote number for seats, the country had a collective aneurysm, and many wanted to cede the southern most area of the country to Denmark.

It CAN work.

But it mostly can't, especially when you have a very small country with a lot of single-issue small parties, like Israel.

645 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:33:00am

re: #643 EmmmieG

Exhibit A in why I don't own a TV.

Clever commercials make youtube, and I can watch them there, like this one:

[Video]

Ikea is the Store of Evil.

But I love the Old Spice Guy.

646 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:33:54am

Statement by Cecile Richards, Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Regarding Today’s Komen Announcement

“The outpouring of support for women in need of lifesaving breast cancer screening this week has been astonishing and is a testament to our nation's compassion and sincerity.

“During the last week, millions spontaneously joined a national conversation about lifesaving breast cancer prevention care and reinforced shared values about access to health care for all. This compassionate outcry in support of those most in need rose above political, ideological, and cultural divides, and will surely be recognized as one of our nation's better moments during a contentious political time. Planned Parenthood thanks each and every person who has contributed to elevating the importance of breast cancer prevention for so many women in need.

“In recent weeks, the treasured relationship between the Susan G. Komen for the Cure Foundation and Planned Parenthood has been challenged, and we are now heartened that we can continue to work in partnership toward our shared commitment to breast health for the most underserved women. We are enormously grateful that the Komen Foundation has clarified its grantmaking criteria, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Komen partners, leaders and volunteers. What these past few days have demonstrated is the deep resolve all Americans share in the fight against cancer, and we honor those who are at the helm of this battle.

“Planned Parenthood has been a trusted partner with the Komen Foundation in early cancer detection and prevention services. In particular, Planned Parenthood helps the Komen Foundation reach vulnerable populations — low-income women, African-American women, and Latinas — especially in rural areas and underserved communities where Planned Parenthood health centers are their only source of health care. With Komen Foundation grants, over the past five years, Planned Parenthood health centers provided nearly 170,000 clinical breast exams and more than 6,400 mammogram referrals. With the outpouring of support over the past week, even more women in need will receive lifesaving breast cancer care.”

647 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:35:09am

re: #631 NJDhockeyfan

She's got Cindy Sheehan's support.

Breivik supports Israel.

648 Digital Display  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:35:17am

re: #645 Alouette

Ikea is the Store of Evil.

But I love the Old Spice Guy.

When I become the King of the world..
I'll outlaw all Gieco Commercials..

649 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:36:08am

re: #640 Gus 802

Here's something from PP:

@PPact Planned Parenthood
Komen has reversed their decision! We look forward to continuing partnership. Thanks to all for your voice and support! [Link: bit.ly...]

Looks like a low-key non-bullying response. Not making any demands as the "injured party".

650 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:36:11am

Anybody else awkwardly smirk when they read 'the Pink Curtain?'

651 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:36:22am

Holy schnikes. Anonymous apparently hacked into a conference call between cybercrime units at Scotland Yard and the FBI and released a portion of the call.

The FBI said in a statement Friday that the information "was intended for law enforcement officers only and was illegally obtained."

The bureau said it was hunting those responsible.

You think?

652 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:36:44am

re: #648 HoosierHoops

When I become the King of the world..
I'll outlaw all Gieco Commercials..

And to think that years ago, they said "Pay TV" would eliminate all commercials!

653 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:37:30am

re: #646 Gus 802

Statement by Cecile Richards, Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Regarding Today’s Komen Announcement

Translation: "We're glad that you're all paying attention now, so please pardon us for our momentary stupidity."

654 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:37:31am

re: #644 Alouette

Fortunately, we are 30-50 times larger than Israel. We are larger than the EU Big 4 (Italy, Germany, France, and the UK) combined.

We are 313 Million Strong, and increasing by the population of a Baltic State Every Year.

655 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:37:36am

re: #646 Gus 802

Very gracious and supportive; far more than I think many would have expected considering the motivating factors behind Komen's moves.

656 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:37:38am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

I'm just curious about the truth of the matter. I don't see either side being particularly honest. Abortion is a heated topic and activists on both sides get passionate and start stretching the truth. I'm just wondering if maybe Komen is just trying to do the right thing. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between on this one.

How is the pro-choice side stretching the truth?

The anti-choice side:
"99% of PP's business is providing abortions" - FALSE
"Lefties just like killing babies, black babies preferably" - FALSE
And on and on

Pro-choice side:
"Leave us the fuck alone to decide what to do with our bodies" - TRUE

Tell me what untruths are coming from the pro-choice side?

657 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:37:50am

re: #651 lawhawk

Holy schnikes. Anonymous apparently hacked into a conference call between cybercrime units at Scotland Yard and the FBI and released a portion of the call.

You think?

It was really only a matter of time before Anonymous put their collective fist into a hornets' nest. It appears that the hammer is about to fall.

658 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:38:16am

Douche alert:

GOP lawmaker walked out on Obama's speech at National Prayer Breakfast

He was disturbed and offended by the president’s use of prayer and reflection time for partisan politics and class warfare,” Talaber said. “Rep. Gingrey enjoyed listening to the keynote speaker and found the breakfast to be inspiring until President Obama began politicking.”

659 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:38:38am

re: #639 ProLifeLiberal

Europe is doing just fine.

And, and least in Sweden, when nutty party got above the vote number for seats, the country had a collective aneurysm, and many wanted to cede the southern most area of the country to Denmark.

It CAN work.

I have to go, but one thought for you:

With proportional representation, the Tea Party could gain actual power.

660 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:39:22am

re: #655 lawhawk

Very gracious and supportive; far more than I think many would have expected considering the motivating factors behind Komen's moves.

Like her mom, Cecile Richards is a total class act. This is exactly the response I expected from her and she certainly lived up to it.

661 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:39:30am

Well you know, this means the rhetoric will become more heated against PP. The radio haters will push how PP bullied Komen into submitting.

662 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:39:57am

re: #656 RayFerd

"99% of PP's business is providing abortions" - FALSE

That's seriously derpy. Why would the left want to kill it's constituency? In wingnut logic, the left would be pro life, wanting every baby to be born to further entrench the welfare state.

663 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:40:42am

re: #657 thedopefishlives

If I were a foreign intelligence agency committing cybershenanigans, I would do everything I could to make sure it looked like "Anonymous".

Chase those tails, lil' fellers!

664 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:41:27am

re: #662 BigPapa

That's seriously derpy. Why would the left want to kill it's constituency? In wingnut logic, the left would be pro life, wanting every baby to be born to further entrench the welfare state.

Dude, yer expectin' logic or something? Pfft!

///

665 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:42:38am

re: #661 Amory Blaine

Well you know, this means the rhetoric will become more heated against PP. The radio haters will push how PP bullied Komen into submitting.

Oh, the anti-choice nutjobs are pulling that talking point out on Komen's Facebook page. They're now outraged after spending days crowing about SGK "not being political" and "doing the right thing". Now, they're all about the BABIES ZOMG and how could Komen give into the bullying from PP and the radical left?

It's funny to watch. Komen has managed to piss off both sides and totally destroyed their brand in the process.

666 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:43:30am

re: #662 BigPapa

That's seriously derpy. Why would the left want to kill it's constituency? In wingnut logic, the left would be pro life, wanting every baby to be born to further entrench the welfare state.

The left recruits precious children in schools with Marxism./

667 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:44:17am

Damn...Unemployment dropped again...now at 8.3%. When it was over 9% the Republicans were all saying 8% was Obama's magic number...if they could keep the rate above eight, they could beat him. I'm guessing they'll start using 7 or 6 as the new threshold if they haven't already.

668 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:44:28am

re: #666 Amory Blaine

The left recruits precious children in schools with Marxism gay sex manuals./

669 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:45:04am

re: #665 Lidane

Oh, the anti-choice nutjobs are pulling that talking point out on Komen's Facebook page. They're now outraged after spending days crowing about SGK "not being political" and "doing the right thing". Now, they're all about the BABIES ZOMG and how could Komen give into the bullying from PP and the radical left?

It's funny to watch. Komen has managed to piss off both sides and totally destroyed their brand in the process.

Freak-out @ #tcot.

670 Olsonist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:45:46am

re: #667 darthstar

Those hires are employers looking forward to a Newt Gingrich administration.

671 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:46:14am

re: #647 BigPapa

Breivik supports Israel.

Shh...you're not supposed to share things like that. Makes insecure people even more insecure...even though every country and every cause has its own assholes associated with it or supporting it.

672 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:47:02am

re: #667 darthstar

Goalpost splitter!

673 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:48:03am

re: #667 darthstar

Damn...Unemployment dropped again...now at 8.3%. When it was over 9% the Republicans were all saying 8% was Obama's magic number...if they could keep the rate above eight, they could beat him. I'm guessing they'll start using 7 or 6 as the new threshold if they haven't already.

They're going to jump straight to 0. "If there's a single unemployed person in this country come November, we can beat Obama."

674 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:48:04am

re: #671 darthstar

Ha ha, just playing the Guilt By Association Game (G-BAG) with NJD. It's just a spitball.

675 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:48:30am

re: #661 Amory Blaine

Well you know, this means the rhetoric will become more heated against PP. The radio haters will push how PP bullied Komen into submitting.

Maybe. But maybe now we're ready to finally take them on. They've been allowed to attack PP and women for far too long without being properly challenged.

677 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:49:05am

hamsters are a-huffin and a-puffin

678 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:49:28am

re: #667 darthstar

Damn...Unemployment dropped again...now at 8.3%. When it was over 9% the Republicans were all saying 8% was Obama's magic number...if they could keep the rate above eight, they could beat him. I'm guessing they'll start using 7 or 6 as the new threshold if they haven't already.

The new talking point is that the "real" unemployment number is in the double digits, but the administration isn't counting people who've stopped looking in order to make the numbers look "good."

Problem with that talking point is that the White House is using the same formulas as previous administrations to count unemployment, hence if Obama's guilty of ignoring people not seeking employment, then so is Bush.

679 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:49:48am

re: #665 Lidane

Oh, the anti-choice nutjobs are pulling that talking point out on Komen's Facebook page. They're now outraged after spending days crowing about SGK "not being political" and "doing the right thing". Now, they're all about the BABIES ZOMG and how could Komen give into the bullying from PP and the radical left?

It's funny to watch. Komen has managed to piss off both sides and totally destroyed their brand in the process.

I know that I, for one, will not be forgiving Komen any time soon. It'll take a lot more than a panicked reversal in the face of a PR disaster to make me forget this and the other things they've done. Not that I was a big booster of them before this, either.

680 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:49:53am

re: #676 Gus 802

Douche alert:

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R - Confederacy) reminds Obama 'there was only one person who walked on water'

I have my own beef with Orrin Hatch - mostly concerning copyrights, patents, and the whole clusterfuck of intellectual property - but that was just uncalled for, Mr. Hatch. What a class act.

681 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:50:32am

PP statement:

"We are enormously grateful that the Komen Foundation has clarified its grantmaking criteria, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Komen partners,...snip"


Right way to do it--take the money and leave the doofs a figleaf.

682 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:50:59am

re: #675 Simply Sarah

Maybe. But maybe now we're ready to finally take them on. They've been allowed to attack PP and women for far too long without being properly challenged.

What are we going to fight them with? Common sense? It is unwinnable battle.

683 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:51:00am
684 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:51:10am

re: #678 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The new talking point is that the "real" unemployment number is in the double digits, but the administration isn't counting people who've stopped looking in order to make the numbers look "good."

Problem with that talking point is that the White House is using the same formulas as previous administrations to count unemployment, hence if Obama's guilty of ignoring people not seeking employment, then so is Bush.

How do you count people who have given up the job search and stopped looking? I thought unemployment was counted by unemployment claims? People whose benefits have run out but who haven't found new jobs, what method is there for counting them?

685 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:51:24am

re: #683 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush was pissed this morning

Komen Reverses Position On Planned Parenthood, Pledges To Continue Funding

Excellent! Bwahahahaha!

686 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:51:26am

re: #681 Decatur Deb

I think it also reflects that a lot of the Komen chapters themselves were rebelling against this.

687 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:51:55am

re: #680 thedopefishlives

I have my own beef with Orrin Hatch - mostly concerning copyrights, patents, and the whole clusterfuck of intellectual property - but that was just uncalled for, dude. What a class act.

They're really jealous of Obama.

688 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:52:46am

re: #687 Gus 802

They're really jealous of Obama.

They have good reason to be. He's handsome, cool, and perfectly sane and rational. All things they are not.

689 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:52:49am

re: #678 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

See my #357 above. They'll focus on the U-6 rather than U-3 figure, but the trends are all working against the GOP; the unemployment figures are improving.

690 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:53:25am

re: #682 Amory Blaine

What are we going to fight them with? Common sense? It is unwinnable battle.

With our feet, with our voices, with our pens, with our keyboards, with our votes. To say the battle cannot be won is to give up. The last few days show that we can, in fact, win if we stand together with one voice. We'd do well to take that to heart.

691 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:53:34am

re: #684 Alouette

How do you count people who have given up the job search and stopped looking? I thought unemployment was counted by unemployment claims? People whose benefits have run out but who haven't found new jobs, what method is there for counting them?

Basically they look at the current numbers, then previous ones, and declare that "so many thousands/millions have stopped looking," then count them against the grand total. At least, that's how I think it works, as I've never given the talking point enough attention to do any real research.

692 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:53:36am

re: #678 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Things looking a bit up.

Now, we just need to keep that going to the election.

We also badly need an overall overhaul of infrastructure in the US.

693 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:53:49am

re: #688 thedopefishlives

They have good reason to be. He's handsome, cool, and perfectly sane and rational. All things they are not.

And he can sing!

694 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:54:07am

re: #681 Decatur Deb

PP statement:

"We are enormously grateful that the Komen Foundation has clarified its grantmaking criteria, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Komen partners,...snip"

Right way to do it--take the money and leave the doofs a figleaf.

Komen Foundation will have a leadership change again after the next two quarters of numbers come in. You can make a mistake and take a PR hit...and it could cost you revenue for a quarter. But if it costs you revenue for two quarters, start polishing your resume.

695 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:54:40am

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

We will continue to fund existing grants, including those of Planned Parenthood, and preserve their eligibility to apply for future grants, while maintaining the ability of our affiliates to make funding decisions that meet the needs of their communities.”

What does the above actually say?

696 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:55:26am

re: #695 Obdicut

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

What does the above actually say?

It says "We'll back off for now, but the second we see the chance to get away with it, we'll try pulling this again."

697 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:55:29am

re: #446 darthstar

This calls for some John Prine

[Video]

Might be going to see him in Pittsburgh early next month. Friend brought it up as a possible road trip.

698 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:55:32am

re: #689 lawhawk

See my #357 above. They'll focus on the U-6 rather than U-3 figure, but the trends are all working against the GOP; the unemployment figures are improving.

A slow, but steady improvement is bad news for the GOP. Right now, their only "hope" is that Europe or China collapses and the shockwave carries over to here.

699 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:56:13am

re: #695 Obdicut

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

What does the above actually say?

It's like Keystone XL. ;)

700 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:56:21am

re: #698 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A slow, but steady improvement is bad news for the GOP. Right now, their only "hope" is that Europe or China collapses and the shockwave carries over to here.

GREEEECE!!!!!11ty1!!!

701 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:56:38am

re: #695 Obdicut

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

What does the above actually say?

It says they hope no one will be watching as the in-place grants run out.

702 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:56:47am

re: #695 Obdicut

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

What does the above actually say?

"A big announcement was a bad idea, but quietly dropping PP clinics one by one should buy us some time to make up a more believable excuse."

703 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:56:48am

re: #699 Gus 802

It's like Keystone XL. ;)

Is that a tallboy?

704 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:58:08am

re: #695 Obdicut

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

What does the above actually say?

I think it is a face saving measure against the rwnj blowback.
They cannot afford another PR disaster like this one.

Women are tired of their health issues being fucked with. They will not just lie down and take it anymore.

705 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:58:56am

re: #700 Amory Blaine

GREEECE!!!11ty1!!!

Just the top of the heap. Britain, Spain, & Italy are also in dire straits, all countries that went the austerity route to solve the recession. You know, the route that supposedly would serve as a signal to the private sector to boost investment/spending on their part and finance the recovery?

706 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:59:29am

re: #701 Decatur Deb

It says they hope no one will be watching as the in-place grants run out.

I'm pretty sure this is nearest to the truth. The legalese says that PP will be free to apply for grants, but it says nothing about the approval thereof. Which, of course, that's SOP anyway, because you don't want to guarantee anyone an approval; but it leaves the door open for them to later say, "Hey, we let them apply, they were denied for a variety of reasons."

707 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:00:16am

Rush: "Abortion is the sacrament of liberalism."

708 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:00:24am

Honestly, I'm sort of wondering now if Komen didn't just worm its way out of the corner without actually reversing itself.

709 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:01:00am

re: #707 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush: "Abortion is the sacrament of liberalism."

Put a sock in it, Jabba.

710 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:01:29am

re: #695 Obdicut

Our only goal for our granting process is to support women and families in the fight against breast cancer. Amending our criteria will ensure that politics has no place in our grant process. We will continue to fund existing grants, including those of Planned Parenthood, and preserve their eligibility to apply for future grants, while maintaining the ability of our affiliates to make funding decisions that meet the needs of their communities.

To me the problem isn't the part you bolded, but the next clause. Seems to me that the change (to specify that they're referring to criminal investigations as a criteria for withholding funding grants) will be applied both to current recipients and future recipients. Perhaps more problematic is that they're giving their local affiliates the leeway to not fund PP down the line (say in more conservative areas). Now, these same affiliates might not have been funding PP before out of the same anti-abortion principles, but some may now use this as additional cover when doing so.

711 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:01:46am

re: #35 Gus 802

I'd say they were also ignorant but they're also unwilling to learn. That is most them are unwilling to learn. That's the nature of the beast. I've been around quite a few of the La Raza equals the KKK idiots. Might as well talk to a flat tire. Even the most extremist forms of Latino extremism doesn't come close to the KKK. What pisses them off is that they can't shake off the fact that the KKK was a right wing group. Jim Crow laws was a right wing system. And slavery was a right wing concept.

Yep, buncha confederates.

712 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:02:18am

re: #709 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I hope he has a health problem.

re: #704 blueraven

I think it is a face saving measure against the rwnj blowback.
They cannot afford another PR disaster like this one.

Women are tired of their health issues being fucked with. They will not just lie down and take it anymore.

Rethink your wording. :P

713 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:03:12am

re: #712 ProLifeLiberal

I hope he has a health problem.

re: #704 blueraven

Rethink your wording. :P

No need. I meant what I said.

714 Olsonist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:03:12am

This was all downside for Komen with no upside. Basically Komen got whacked upside the head.

Yeah, there's the lawyerly CYA statement from Komen. But my guess is that the good regional folks are going to gut the Karen Handels like a pig. I'd like to be a fly on the wall of the next meeting Karen Handel shows up in.

Gee, it seemed like a neat idea.

715 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:03:17am

re: #695 Obdicut

Komen's decision is worded a little too lawerly for me.

What does the above actually say?

Reminds me of a joke/not-a-joke I've told for years.

"Women and minorities encouraged to apply. You won't get the job, but you are certainly encouraged to apply."

716 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:03:44am

re: #703 Amory Blaine

It's the bottled beer in a pipeline, don't ya know. /

717 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:04:14am

re: #713 blueraven

No need. I meant what I said.

Bigots get very angry when one refuses to lie down and take it.

718 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:04:14am

re: #713 blueraven

Oh, come on. The Double Entendre is right there.

719 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:04:29am

It makes me wonder how a respected organization like that couldn't see the ramifications.

720 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:05:43am

re: #719 Amory Blaine

It makes me wonder how a respected organization like that couldn't see the ramifications.

They thought they had superpowers.

721 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:05:48am

re: #719 Amory Blaine

It makes me wonder how a respected organization like that couldn't see the ramifications.

Ideological blinders.

722 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:06:02am

There's some douche on the @tcot feed called 'AlinskyDefeator'

And Orrin Hatch's 'walk on water' derp is making the rounds now too.

723 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:06:09am

re: #715 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Reminds me of a joke/not-a-joke I've told for years.

"Women and minorities encouraged to apply. You won't get the job, but you are certainly encouraged to apply."

When I was in high school, I always said the reverse. College scholarships are notoriously scrupulous about finding women and minorities to select as recipients to prove their diversity. Sometimes for good reason, but it does somewhat suck to be a white guy looking for academic scholarships.

724 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:06:48am

New page up! See the breaking news about Susan G. Komen's Foundations Chairman is resigning!

Oh and Rush Limbaugh is claiming that Planned Parenthood did this whole brouhaha deliberately to take down the Susan G. Komen Foundation! But that's another topic and RWC just gave me that via blue tooth while he's driving!

725 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:06:55am

It remains to be seen, but I doubt that Komen will win back all those who defected immediately. Many will continue to send their money exclusively to PP, either out of future Komen backtracks or simply because they feel the money is better spent by PP. This may also bring more scrutiny on Komen's practices, such as slapping pink and ribbons on unhealthy products, as well as how they're spending the money they do receive.

726 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:06:57am

re: #718 ProLifeLiberal

Oh, come on. The Double Entendre is right there.

Yes.

727 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07:14am

re: #719 Amory Blaine

It makes me wonder how a respected organization like that couldn't see the ramifications.

Ever since the Spiro Agnew "Silent Majority", perhaps long before, the American right wing has convinced itself that its most outrageous BS is really what "everybody" really wants. Part of the syndrome.

728 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07:16am

re: #723 thedopefishlives

When I was in high school, I always said the reverse. College scholarships are notoriously scrupulous about finding women and minorities to select as recipients to prove their diversity. Sometimes for good reason, but it does somewhat suck to be a white guy looking for academic scholarships.

What's the DAR for?

729 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07:25am

re: #723 thedopefishlives

When I was in high school, I always said the reverse. College scholarships are notoriously scrupulous about finding women and minorities to select as recipients to prove their diversity. Sometimes for good reason, but it does somewhat suck to be a white guy looking for academic scholarships.

I'm going to be a bit snippy and say "Too bad. Sucks that you were born into a position of power and privilege."

730 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07:31am

re: #719 Amory Blaine

Some people became to wedded to ideology to see it.

In other news, I am confronting a Campus Organization that I am a part of that has made me feel extremely cold, left out, and isolated this semester. Last ditch effort to get...something.

731 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:07:38am

re: #721 Simply Sarah

The thing is, they've been giving to PP for years. If they were so ideological, they would have cut years ago or started a competing service.

732 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:08:32am

re: #719 Amory Blaine

It makes me wonder how a respected organization like that couldn't see the ramifications.

I hate to sound mean, but a lot of the larger non-profits and charities seem to honestly believe that the "good" of their actions will always cloak or at least cushion the bad that they do.

733 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:08:48am

re: #729 Simply Sarah

I'm going to be a bit snippy and say "Too bad. Sucks that you were born into a position of power and privilege."

I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment, but not all white people have power and privilege. College is still expensive, even for plain old white folk.

734 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:09:58am

re: #723 thedopefishlives

When I was in high school, I always said the reverse. College scholarships are notoriously scrupulous about finding women and minorities to select as recipients to prove their diversity.

Yeah, with the same scholarship listed multiple times in every "minority" category.

735 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:10:43am

re: #729 Simply Sarah

I'm going to be a bit snippy and say "Too bad. Sucks that you were born into a position of power and privilege."

Flag on the play, not all white people are born into a position of power and privilege.

736 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:11:19am

re: #735 jamesfirecat

Flag on the play, not all white people are born into a position of power and privilege.

5 yards for encroachment; repeat the down.

737 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:11:30am

re: #710 lawhawk

To me the problem isn't the part you bolded, but the next clause. Seems to me that the change (to specify that they're referring to criminal investigations as a criteria for withholding funding grants) will be applied both to current recipients and future recipients. Perhaps more problematic is that they're giving their local affiliates the leeway to not fund PP down the line (say in more conservative areas). Now, these same affiliates might not have been funding PP before out of the same anti-abortion principles, but some may now use this as additional cover when doing so.

True. Also, the criminal investigations line has opened up a whole new line of criticism, because Komen gives money to Penn State, and people are asking if supporting a school that turned a blind eye to child rape is more important than Planned Parenthood. There's also this:

[Link: articles.businessinsider.com...]

Their Facebook page is a total mess now. They've stepped in it HUGE, and no statement is going to put things back to the way they were.

738 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:11:37am

re: #730 ProLifeLiberal

Part of the issue with the campus organization is the fact that last semester, one of the officers thought my Asperger's Syndrome was a good reason to push me around and treat me badly. She said I needed "to be straightened out"

I've met some repulsive people, but never anyone like that.

739 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:11:41am

re: #723 thedopefishlives

it does somewhat suck to be a white guy looking for academic scholarships.

Try being a nonwhite nonmale anything still required in all aspects of your career to integrate these all white all male hostile workplaces and locales.

740 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:11:43am

Wonder how many of those anti-choice folks who were thrilled with the initial decision and sent in money to cover the losses are gonna be demanding refunds now?

741 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:12:49am

re: #740 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Wonder how many of those anti-choice folks who were thrilled with the initial decision and sent in money to cover the losses are gonna be demanding refunds now?

Looking at the Komen FB page all morning, a ton of them. Others are glad they decided to wait before donating.

742 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:12:55am

Religious Right to Romney: Safety Net Un-Biblical

“The safety net contributes to poverty,” declared Rush Limbaugh. “It does not solve it.” Tea Party favorite Sen. Jim DeMint told a reporter, “Those are the programs that are hurting, not just the poor, but our country.”

Religious Right leaders added another touch: the safety net is un-Biblical. Yesterday, Liberty Counsel pushed out a statement promoting the Christian Reconstructionist notion that the Bible gives the government no role in addressing poverty:

Romney wrongly assumes that it is the role of government to provide more entitlements to help the poor. In fact, that is not the role of government. The historical biblical view of helping the poor is that they are best helped by individuals and the faith community. Government programs tend to enslave the poor in an endless cycle of poverty. The biblical model is that both, the giver and the recipient, are blessed. When government steps in between the giver and the recipient, the giver loses the blessing of giving and the recipient is often left in a worse, rather than better, position. Romney's statement that he would rely on government programs to help the poor indicates his intent to continue the same failed big government programs and policies….it is the duty of the church, the faith community, to look after the poor, the orphans, and the widows.

It is the role of the Church to take care of the poor, orphans and widows who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord.
/

743 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:13:04am

re: #739 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Try being a nonwhite nonmale anything still required in all aspects of your career to integrate these all white all male hostile workplaces and locales.

Yeah, I don't want to really think about it. I'll freely acknowledge that in my particular field of employment, I am part of an overwhelming majority. Well, aside from Asians and people from India, but still, overwhelmingly male even then.

744 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:13:33am

re: #716 lawhawk

It's the bottled beer in a pipeline, don't ya know. /

If you spill it on the Ogallala aquifer does it grow a mullet?

745 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:14:22am

re: #735 jamesfirecat

Flag on the play, not all white people are born into a position of power and privilege.

You're right. Some white people are women. But we live in a system that still rewards people of light skinned European heritage, especially if their dudes. Clearly there are many white men that are exploited, but there are even more non-white, non-men that are exploited. Obviously those with need should be helped, but I have a very strong negative automatic reaction to "But what about white guys?" comments.

746 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:15:52am

When my mother started her job in a male dominated field 30+ years ago they didn't even have women's bathrooms in the buildings.

747 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:16:01am

re: #741 Lidane

Looking at the Komen FB page all morning, a ton of them. Others are glad they decided to wait before donating.

Nothing like a bit of schadenfreude on Friday to start the weekend off right.

748 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:16:19am

re: #745 Simply Sarah

I can't blame you for that reaction. I'm not saying we don't have it easy. I am saying that in the specific case of academic scholarships, the selection criteria overwhelmingly favors minorities. There are some good reasons for that, but it doesn't make it any less true that a white male winning an academic scholarship is a rare thing.

749 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:16:50am

re: #743 thedopefishlives

Yeah, I don't want to really think about it.

That is a privilege and a luxury.

I'll freely acknowledge that in my particular field of employment, I am part of an overwhelming majority. Well, aside from Asians and people from India, but still, overwhelmingly male even then.

I'm only saying this pervasive myth that white women and minorities of any gender get some kind of material perks/benefits over white males is just a pervasive myth.

750 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:17:41am

re: #742 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Religious Right to Romney: Safety Net Un-Biblical

It is the role of the Church to take care of the poor, orphans and widows who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord.
/

My favorte part of the Bible is where Jesus gives money to the rich, tells the sick & poor to go suck it, and asks for Caesar's birth certificate.

751 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:18:02am

re: #746 Amory Blaine

When my mother started her job in a male dominated field 30+ years ago they didn't even have women's bathrooms in the buildings.

I walked into a job interview about 20 years ago to a bunch of guys in a conference room, and one of them blurted out, "We were all expecting a man!" (I have a gender-ambiguous first name)

752 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:18:19am

re: #742 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Religious Right to Romney: Safety Net Un-Biblical

It is the role of the Church to take care of the poor, orphans and widows who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord.
/

Bad enough we started letting poor people read the Bible instead of hearing it from their pastors instead!

//

753 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:18:56am

re: #741 Lidane

Looking at the Komen FB page all morning, a ton of them. Others are glad they decided to wait before donating.

What kind of spiteful person would withdraw a donation towards cancer abatement ?

754 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:19:03am

re: #748 thedopefishlives

I can't blame you for that reaction. I'm not saying we don't have it easy. I am saying that in the specific case of academic scholarships, the selection criteria overwhelmingly favors minorities. There are some good reasons for that, but it doesn't make it any less true that a white male winning an academic scholarship is a rare thing.

Well, we need to do something to try and balance things out. Even this gesture isn't nearly enough. I mean, sure, women and minorities might find it easier to get a scholarship to university, but once we get out we get to be paid less money than the poor white guys in the same jobs.

755 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:19:25am

Oh, hey. Look at that. The war criminal isn't buying the job numbers:

Rep. Allen West Suspicious About Positive Job Numbers

756 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:20:08am

re: #753 Amory Blaine

What kind of spiteful person would withdraw a donation towards cancer abatement ?

Komen is not a cancer research lab, it is a marketing consultant for selling pink shit.

757 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:20:16am

@EWErickson Erick Erickson
Komen Board Member: Haven’t Caved on Planned Parenthood Funding lifenews.com/2012/02/03/kom… via @StevenErtelt

758 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:20:17am

re: #754 Simply Sarah

Well, we need to do something to try and balance things out. Even this gesture isn't nearly enough. I mean, sure, women and minorities might find it easier to get a scholarship to university, but once we get out we get to be paid less money than the poor white guys in the same jobs.

Sadly, it's very true. Not to mention the fact that discriminatory hiring practices are impossible to prove, thus companies can get away with it a lot of the time.

759 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:20:29am

re: #753 Amory Blaine

What kind of spiteful person would withdraw a donation towards cancer abatement ?

Because the only thing Planned Parenthood does is kill babies! Won't someone think of the babies?

Komen needs to apologize to all the future women they just killed by giving PP money again.

///

760 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:20:34am

re: #753 Amory Blaine

What kind of spiteful person would withdraw a donation towards cancer abatement ?

The kind whose donation was in response to a decision they approved of, rather than because they actually wish to support the charity and its work.

761 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:21:49am

re: #756 Alouette

Komen is not a cancer research lab, it is a marketing consultant for selling pink shit.

Which crayon do you have to eat for that color?

762 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:21:55am

re: #756 Alouette

Komen is not a cancer research lab, it is a marketing consultant for selling pink shit.

Case in point:

[Link: thinkbeforeyoupink.org...]

Pink buckets of KFC chicken. WTF.

763 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:22:10am

re: #758 thedopefishlives

Sadly, it's very true. Not to mention the fact that discriminatory hiring practices are impossible to prove, thus companies can get away with it a lot of the time.

Hiring, promotions, general treatment, termination. Runs straight on through the whole wonderful work experience.

764 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:22:27am

re: #746 Amory Blaine

When my mother started her job in a male dominated field 30+ years ago they didn't even have women's bathrooms in the buildings.

When I started in a totally male field (until two other women and myself were hired within a 6 month period in 1975), we were not allowed to ride in the same car with any of our male coworkers because their wives might object. That meant we couldn't attend training sessions and such because there wasn't money enough for *2* cars to go. That was but one example of "discrimination as a matter of policy" - there were many more. Fun times.

765 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:23:19am

Romney To Nevadans: I Don’t Know ‘What The Purpose Is’ Of Public Lands (Hint: They Pump $1 Billion Into the State Economy)

I don’t know the reason that the federal government owns such a large share of Nevada. And when I was in Utah at the Olympics there I heard a similar refrain there. What they were concerned about was that the government would step in and say, “We’re taking this” — which by the way has extraordinary coal reserves — “and we’re not going to let you develop these coal reserves.” I mean, it drove the people nuts. Unless there’s a valid, and legitimate, and compelling governmental purpose, I don’t know why the government owns so much of this land.

So I haven’t studied it, what the purpose is of the land, so I don’t want to say, “Oh, I’m about to hand it over.” But where government ownership of land is designed to satisfy, let’s say, the most extreme environmentalists, from keeping a population from developing their coal, their gold, their other resources for the benefit of the state, I would find that to be unacceptable.

The man is a walking soundbite machine for Democratic commercials.

766 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:23:37am

Ahahaha...this is awesome:

‘An Eye For An Eye Of The Tiger’: Survivor Sings Newt’s Book Without Permission On Colbert

Stephen Colbert is a big defender of copyright law. Colbert was moved by the news that former Survivor band member Frankie Sullivan is suing Newt Gingrich’s campaign for using the song “Eye of the Tiger.”

Newt — an author of many copyrighted materials — should know better, Colbert said: “I say an eye for an ‘Eye of the Tiger.’”

“Someone should sing Newt’s latest book, “A Nation Like No Other,” without permission,” Colbert added.

So Colbert welcomed former Survivor frontman Dave Bickler to do just that.

767 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:24:55am

re: #751 Alouette

I walked into a job interview about 20 years ago to a bunch of guys in a conference room, and one of them blurted out, "We were all expecting a man!" (I have a gender-ambiguous first name)

I attribute much of my success to that fact that I have one of those first names, too. Got me into many doors that would have been closed otherwise. Thanks Mom and Dad!

768 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:25:36am

re: #753 Amory Blaine

What kind of spiteful person would withdraw a donation towards cancer abatement ?

Komen foundation for one, as we have seen.

769 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:25:45am

re: #763 Simply Sarah

Hiring, promotions, general treatment, termination. Runs straight on through the whole wonderful work experience.

I didn't mean to stir the pot, btw. I do know that non-white, non-male people don't have an easy time of it. I think it's stupid, because I've known a lot of bright female engineers. Of course, it's tough to get a female engineer in my field, because geeks don't respond well to women. ;)

770 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:26:42am

re: #767 allegro

I attribute much of my success to that fact that I have one of those first names, too. Got me into many doors that would have been closed otherwise. Thanks Mom and Dad!

This is where I'm glad I'm as young as I am. I'm pretty sure the name Sarah would have stood out pretty clearly in the programming community a couple decades ago. Granted, it sorta still does.

771 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:26:57am

re: #769 thedopefishlives

I didn't mean to stir the pot, btw. I do know that non-white, non-male people don't have an easy time of it. I think it's stupid, because I've known a lot of bright female engineers. Of course, it's tough to get a female engineer in my field, because geeks don't respond well to women. ;)

I am a female, an engineer and a geek. So WTF are you talking about?

772 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:27:08am

Sloth crossing the street - I believe I can fly version.

773 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:27:27am

re: #771 Alouette

I am a female, an engineer and a geek. So WTF are you talking about?

Stereotyping. Just joking, sorry. I'm done now.

774 blueraven  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:28:55am

re: #755 Lidane

Oh, hey. Look at that. The war criminal isn't buying the job numbers:

Rep. Allen West Suspicious About Positive Job Numbers

Oh brother. The rwnj's are freaking out over the really excellent jobs report.
It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

775 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:29:23am

re: #769 thedopefishlives

I didn't mean to stir the pot, btw. I do know that non-white, non-male people don't have an easy time of it. I think it's stupid, because I've known a lot of bright female engineers. Of course, it's tough to get a female engineer in my field, because geeks don't respond well to women. ;)

Well, I apologize for being perhaps overly aggressive. That topic is one of my triggers. Yes, I have a lot of triggers. I'm in my young, hot-blooded activist phase of life.

776 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:29:24am

Off for three days!!

{mini tribal}

777 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:31:48am

re: #662 BigPapa

That's seriously derpy. Why would the left want to kill it's constituency? In wingnut logic, the left would be pro life, wanting every baby to be born to further entrench the welfare state.

Well, to be fair, Jon Kyle only said 90%. And it wasn't meant to be a factual statement anyway. He just used it to try and get the vote to go his way in the Senate. See you're allowed to lie if it pleases god.

778 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:31:51am

re: #765 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Western States hate the federal government, and some recent decisions to make new large swaths of land part of national monuments and other protected land status to thwart building mines or other development near existing national parks, monuments and federal laws.

He's pandering to that crowd.

Utah has some of the most spectacular wildlands, badlands, and geological features on the planet - but people out there still think that some of it should be exploited for mining, rather than kept in its current state (wild). Specifically, Escalante Grand Staircase National Monument.
[Link: www.utah.com...]

It connects Bryce and Capitol Reef parks but is operated by the BLM, not the NPS.

779 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:34:51am
780 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 10:46:41am

re: #748 thedopefishlives

I can't blame you for that reaction. I'm not saying we don't have it easy. I am saying that in the specific case of academic scholarships, the selection criteria overwhelmingly favors minorities. There are some good reasons for that, but it doesn't make it any less true that a white male winning an academic scholarship is a rare thing.

Well, a white male winning an academic scholarship slated for either white women or minorities of any gender is a rare thing.

Unless you want to go to an HBCU, where many do have quite active scholarship funding for "whites".

Also, there are too many colleges and financial aid granting bodies to make that statement. For example, if you want to go to Harvard, you can get scholarships based on last name and ancestry or locale of origin. It's entirely possible, but highly unlikely I'm eligible for any of those lol

781 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:18:19am

re: #765 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney To Nevadans: I Don’t Know ‘What The Purpose Is’ Of Public Lands (Hint: They Pump $1 Billion Into the State Economy)


The man is a walking soundbite machine for Democratic commercials.

Clueless, ignorant, or lying panderer. Someone not knowing that a great deal of western land is federally owned and always has been (once we took it off the Indians/Mexicans/others) should be busy getting educated about it and the associated issues rather than making speeches about it.

BLM is a four-letter word in a number of places out there.

782 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:59:31pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but no. Communism is a ideology of the left.

Stalin was a social conservative. Whether that makes him a left or a right is an interesting question. Rather, this perhaps demonstrates the inadequacy of 1 dimension. Stalin was a left-wing socon.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 200209The the last six months or so was “sand, sandbags, pounding, sand, sand, sand”... it was by far the most physically grueling (54,000 pounds of sand we moved - just the two of us), and the longest on the timeline. ...
#thegreatpoolpondconversion (dangerman)
4 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 327 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
AP VoteCast: NH Democrats Angry, Seek Alternative to Trump While everyone does the usual horse race comparisons as if NH results really matter, this journalist focuses on the essential. WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic voters in Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary were angry at President Donald Trump’s administration and eager ...
Thanos
5 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 415 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
James Taylor - American Standard: Teach Me Tonight (Official Music Video) Order James Taylor’s upcoming album American Standard here: found.ee Written in 1954, “Teach Me Tonight" has become a jazz standard and been covered dozens of times. Dinah Washington’s version, an R&B hit in 1954, was inducted into the GRAMMY ...
Thanos
5 days, 18 hours ago
Views: 470 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 14 • Share to Facebook
Oh Wonder - in and Out of Love (Official Video) 'In And Out Of Love from the upcoming album ‘No One Else Can Wear Your Crown’, out 7th February 2020. Pre-order the album on signed vinyl, CD and cassette - ohwonder.lnk.to Tickets for Oh Wonder's 2020 World Tour are ...
Thanos
6 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 413 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Summertime - Billy Strings & Marcus King A pair of today's best performing a timeless tune! Billy Strings and Marcus King play "Summertime" live at Carter Vintage Guitars in Nashville, TN. Billy is playing a '36 000-28 and Marcus is playing a '54 Telecaster cartervintage.combillystrings.commarcuskingband.com ...
Thanos
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 488 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 16 • Share to Facebook
ANNA MEREDITH - Sawbones Sawbones is taken from Anna Meredith's latest album FIBS: smarturl.it Anna and band announce a US tour for 2020 amidst a sell-out run in the UK. Get tickets for all shows at annameredith.com FEBRUARY5 - London, EartH [SOLD OUT]6 ...
Thanos
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 408 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 • Share to Facebook
Whitney - Friend of Mine (Live on KEXP)kexp.org presents Whitney performing "Friend Of Mine" live in the KEXP studio. Recorded October 25, 2019. Host: Cheryl WatersAudio Engineer: Kevin SuggsCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Kendall Rock & Justin WilmoreEditor: Justin Wilmore kexp.orgwhitneytheband.com
Thanos
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 449 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Green Day - I Was a Teenage Teenager (Official Audio) "I Was A Teenage Teenager" from Father Of All... out now!! 🦄 greenday.lnk.to Play it loud and play it on repeat🤘 Catch the Hella Mega Tour presented by Harley-Davidson w/ Green Day, Fall Out Boy, & Weezer - get ...
Thanos
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 457 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Pearl Jam - Dance of the Clairvoyants (Mach III) "Pearl Jam “Dance Of The Clairvoyants” – available everywhere now: pearljam.lnk.to ►Pre-order the “Gigaton” album now: pearljam.lnk.to ►Get tickets here: pearljam.com ►Subscribe for more content from Pearl Jam: pearljam.lnk.to ►Connect with Pearl Jam:instagram.comfacebook.com@PearlJam pearljam.com Produced by: Evolve Studios (www.evolve.studio)Executive ...
Thanos
6 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 439 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
NIGHTWISH - Noise (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO) Official music for "Noise" from the ninth Nightwish album Human. :||: Nature., out April 10th, 2020 via Nuclear Blast Records. Order: nuclearblast.com.SUBSCRIBE to Nightwish YouTube: nblast.deSUBSCRIBE to Nuclear Blast YouTube: nblast.de ORDER ALBUM:Nuclear Blast: nblast.deiTunes: nblast.de Amazon: nblast.deGoogle Play: ...
Thanos
1 week ago
Views: 507 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook