Update: Did the Komen Foundation Really Reverse Its Planned Parenthood Cut-Off?

Playing games
Politics • Views: 31,983

Judging from the statement they released, Planned Parenthood seems to believe the Komen Foundation will restore their funding for breast cancer screening.

But is the Komen Foundation just spinning some more?

I just got off the phone with a Komen board member, and he confirmed that the announcement does not mean that Planned Parenthood is guaranteed future grants — a demand he said would be “unfair” to impose on Komen. He also said the job of the group’s controversial director, Nancy Brinker, is safe, as far as the board is concerned.

As some were quick to point out, the statement put out by Komen doesn’t really clarify whether Planned Parenthood will actually continue to get money from the group. The original rationale for barring Planned Parenthood was that it was under investigation (a witch-hunt probe undertaken by GOP Rep Cliff Stearns). Komen said today that the group would “amend the criteria to make clear that disqualifying investigations must be criminal and conclusive in nature and not political.”

Does that mean Planned Parenthood will get Komen grants in the future?

I asked Komen board member John Raffaelli to respond to those who are now saying that the announcement doesn’t necessarily constitute a reversal until Planned Parenthood actually sees more funding. He insisted it would be unfair to expect the group to commit to future grants.

“It would be highly unfair to ask us to commit to any organization that doesn’t go through a grant process that shows that the money we raise is used to carry out our mission,” Raffaelli told me. “We’re a humaniatrian organization. We have a mission. Tell me you can help carry out our mission and we will sit down at the table.”

Pushed on whether this means the new announcement wasn’t really a reversal, Raffaelli pushed back, arguing that Komen, in response to all the criticism, had removed politics from the grant-making process. “Is it really unclear that we’re changing the policy to address criticism?” he said.

Notice: Komen board member John Raffaelli is explicitly admitting that the decision to cut off Planned Parenthood was politically driven.

Also see
Komen Founder Admitted in 2010 Memoir That Dropping PP Funding Would Be ‘Turning Our Backs’ on Poor Women

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316 comments
1 Olsonist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:21:45am

The SGK national leadership positions are just right wing sinecures.

They will try to view this as a strategic retreat but they're going to find themselves going up against the regionals, the rank and file, the corporate underwriters and their own donors. It's not going to be pretty.

2 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:21:56am

Sure, PP can APPLY for new grants, per SGK's PR release, but that doesn't mean that they'll GET any grant money.

This is a calculated PR move by SGK to get the righteously angry horde off their backs so they'll buy Pink Shit again and so that their marketing partners won't get rid of them like a bad rash, nothing more.

3 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:22:02am

I suspect they got some real heated messages from corporate donors who took a gander at their facebook flame mail last night and then told Konen to knock it off...now!

I don't know how much is spin and how much is emergency plugging the self inflicted hole in the boat.

4 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:22:21am

When in doubt, screw them. The Komen Foundation can piss off.

5 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:22:22am

BBL. Gotta go to class.

6 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:23:32am

Indeed. We cannot let up on Komen now. This is a play for time and cover. It's a smokescreen, rather than a true reversal. We must continue to fight against those like Komen and all those in government that would sacrifice the health of millions of women to serve some ideological goal.

7 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:23:33am

In other words, it's all just a PR stunt and a blatant CYA move. Komen will wait until the shitstorm dies down then cut funding for Planned Parenthood anyway.

If nothing else, I'm glad this idiocy by Komen opened my eyes to what they've really been doing all these years, how they spend their money, and their real agenda. Now I can find better charities to support.

8 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:23:42am

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When in doubt, screw them. The Komen Foundation can piss off.

Agreed, Komen's seen the last dollar from me. I've no desire to donate to charities that screw over folks, whether the reason be political or corporate.

9 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:23:46am

OFFS

10 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:25:10am

I will continue to purchase the same amount of pink-themed merchandise that I always have.

Which is to say: NONE

11 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:26:23am

re: #10 Alouette

I will continue to purchase the same amount of pink-themed merchandise that I always have.

Which is to say: NONE

I suggest you find some and then return it!

12 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:27:42am

It's a smokescreen, but it's also true that they shouldn't be expected to guarantee Planned Parenthood future funding.

They also won't recover their brand without some solid indications that they will de-politicize their leadership.

13 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:27:44am

re: #8 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Agreed, Komen's seen the last dollar from me. I've no desire to donate to charities that screw over folks, whether the reason be political or corporate.

This exemplifies what I've found so amusing about the fundie whining about Komen being able to give grants to whomever they wish as a private foundation.

Exactly. So can we give our money to whomever we wish. Komen just won't be one of them now that many of us have seen more about the organization that offends us. Somehow the fundies see that as wrong though - it makes us bullies. Fuck 'em.

14 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:28:09am
“We’re a humaniatrian organization."

That endorses pink handguns and unhealthy fast food.

Yeah. Real humanitarian there, Komen. You're regular Gandhi types.

15 Bulworth  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:29:29am

From commenter at TPM, via Tbogg:

SBK apology:

We want to apologize to the American public for recent decisions that resulted in completely unexpected scrutiny of our CEO’s unconscionably high salary, obscenely high overhead to actual good ratio, longstanding links to Republican politicians, huge budget for taking oppressive legal actions against other charities that dare use the word ‘cure,’ vast marketing and lobbying budgets, and long-standing history of secretly lobbying against federal assistance to women with breast cancer.

Based upon the last ten years, we truly had no idea that we couldn’t do whatever the hell we wanted with gullible contributors’ money. We thought that the corpse of our CEO’s sister was an impenetrable shield that protected all of our actions from scrutiny or accountability. We appreciate your support while we try to figure out WTF has changed.

However, although the sudden spike in scrutiny and precipitous drop in fundraising and sponsorships scared the crap out of us, we want to assure all of you that, even as we desparately attempt to salvage something out of the conflagration burning our brand to the ground, we will continue to flat-out lie to your face and generally assume you are all still such credulous imbeciles that we can shamelessly stick to obvious falsehoods or change our story from minute to minute as whim or panic dictate.

Now please stop looking into our finances, lobbying and legal activities and strong political connections with right wing politicians. Stop it right now or Susan will be angry, very angry with you. Thank you.”

16 RurouniKenshin  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:30:28am

Yeah, this isn't a reversal at all.

If they think this will go away, wait until they deny PP's grant requests next year.

Screw SGK, there are much better charities for your money.

17 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:31:19am

re: #15 Bulworth

From commenter at TPM, via Tbogg:

SBK apology:

Pretty much...

18 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:31:23am

re: #15 Bulworth

From commenter at TPM, via Tbogg:

SBK apology:

Brilliant.

19 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:32:09am

re: #14 Lidane

That endorses pink handguns and unhealthy fast food.

Yeah. Real humanitarian there, Komen. You're regular Gandhi types.

Cat food.

20 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:32:41am

Notice in the quote above: Komen board member John Raffaelli is explicitly admitting that the decision to cut off Planned Parenthood was politically driven.

21 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:32:52am

re: #15 Bulworth

From commenter at TPM, via Tbogg:

SBK apology:

Yep. It was totally a "We're sorry we got caught and called on this. We'll try harder to disguise it next time." 'apology'.

22 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:34:37am

re: #20 Charles

Notice in the quote above: Komen board member John Raffaelli is explicitly admitting that the decision to cut off Planned Parenthood was politically driven.

DING DING DING

23 dragonath  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:35:21am

The whole world is watching, and yet they continue to spin like a pack of mendacious weasles.

In case you're wondering who buys pink guns

24 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:35:50am

re: #19 Alouette

Cat food.

Do they donate towards testing and prevention of mammary cancer in cats? If so, I wasn't aware.

25 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:35:54am

re: #13 allegro

This exemplifies what I've found so amusing about the fundie whining about Komen being able to give grants to whomever they wish as a private foundation.

Exactly. So can we give our money to whomever we wish. Komen just won't be one of them now that many of us have seen more about the organization that offends us. Somehow the fundies see that as wrong though - it makes us bullies. Fuck 'em.

We're not just bullies, but extortionists, for threatening to withhold donations unless they do as we say! Doesn't matter that our "demands" are that they apply their own "blanket policy" to everyone or no one, we're the bad guys because we're not just rolling over!

//

26 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:36:23am

SGK is a charity. It is not infallible. They've failed miserably in this whole mess by changing funding policies that specifically target PP, claiming that they're doing so for fiduciary purposes (integrity), ignoring criminal legal investigations into other charities that they provide grants to (see Penn State), and then supposedly reverse course and claim that they've modified their terms so that they will exclude political investigations and only focus on criminal investigations.

Then, they act as though nothing's wrong and that this was all blown out of proportion to the act.

SGK's actions are such that many people will now opt for other less politically-influenced charities; perhaps some will now directly donate to PP or other charitable foundations, groups, hospitals, that provide direct care rather than to SGK. These actions haven't changed my own charitable giving habits. I didn't donate to SGK before, and I wont going forward. I will continue giving (and in increasing fashion as time goes by and my own finances allow) to places that are near and dear to my family - MSKCC and LLS.

Sad thing is that this ends up hurting those who SGK claims to help - people who want a cure to breast cancer and those who might be helped by early screening/detection.

28 leftynyc  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:36:49am

No - they didn't reverse (other than allowing PP to apply for grants, yesterday they couldn't). They're just trying to get the left to simmer down and stop fighting back. All they've managed to do is piss off anyone.

Every rightwing site I've lurked on is whining about women fighting back. Biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever witnessed.

29 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:37:11am

More WTF Komen product endorsements:

Horse races.
Heavy construction equipment.
Koch Industries toilet paper.
3M. (Don't they, like, manufacture a bunch of carcinogenic stuff?)

30 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:38:10am

re: #29 Alouette

More WTF Komen product endorsements:

Horse races.
Heavy construction equipment.
Koch Industries toilet paper.
3M. (Don't they, like, manufacture a bunch of carcinogenic stuff?)

*Sssh* Pay no attention to the carcinogens behind the curtain.

31 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:38:20am

re: #20 Charles

Notice in the quote above: Komen board member John Raffaelli is explicitly admitting that the decision to cut off Planned Parenthood was politically driven.

Of course. The supposed "blanket policy" was going to "force" Komen to cut off PP, but Penn State's not seeing its own funding being pulled. And unlike PP, Penn is actually facing a federal investigation involving criminal charges, as opposed to a House "investigation" involving one Republican grandstander who's yet to hold a single hearing.

32 leftynyc  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:38:42am

re: #12 oaktree

It's a smokescreen, but it's also true that they shouldn't be expected to guarantee Planned Parenthood future funding.

They also won't recover their brand without some solid indications that they will de-politicize their leadership.

They need to shitcan that Handle person - and since she's managed to screw this up so royally, It's not like they don't have cause. But they wont because this is just windowdressing.

33 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:39:21am

re: #26 lawhawk

SGK is a charity. It is not infallible. They've failed miserably in this whole mess by changing funding policies that specifically target PP, claiming that they're doing so for fiduciary purposes (integrity), ignoring criminal legal investigations into other charities that they provide grants to (see Penn State), and then supposedly reverse course and claim that they've modified their terms so that they will exclude political investigations and only focus on criminal investigations.

Then, they act as though nothing's wrong and that this was all blown out of proportion to the act.

SGK's actions are such that many people will now opt for other less politically-influenced charities; perhaps some will now directly donate to PP or other charitable foundations, groups, hospitals, that provide direct care rather than to SGK. These actions haven't changed my own charitable giving habits. I didn't donate to SGK before, and I wont going forward. I will continue giving (and in increasing fashion as time goes by and my own finances allow) to places that are near and dear to my family - MSKCC and LLS.

Sad thing is that this ends up hurting those who SGK claims to help - people who want a cure to breast cancer and those who might be helped by early screening/detection.

Maybe, maybe not. If anything, this seems to have energized people to care about it and with all the donations to PP they may have even more resources to help people this year than they would have if all this hadn't happened.

34 simoom  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:40:03am

The thing is, by yesterday evening Komen had already abandoned their Congressional inquiry explanation and adopted a new one about a retooled grant strategy that only funded places that directly perform biopsies & mammograms. From yesterday:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I just got off a call with Susan G. Komen Race for the Cure CEO Nancy Brinker and President Elizabeth Thompson, in which the two officials spoke at length about the group’s new policies that would bar the funding of Planned Parenthood. A few takeaways:

It’s now less clear why Planned Parenthood lost the Komen funding. Komen had initially told the Associated Press that Planned Parenthood could not receive funding because it was under government investigation. But today, in no uncertain terms, Johnson indicated that the decision actually had very little to do with an ongoing congressional probe.

“First and foremost, it doesn’t really have anything to do with that,” she said, adding that she didn’t know “very much” about the investigation because she works “20 hours a day focusing on our mission.”

So why did Planned Parenthood lose funding? Brinker says it has to do with the fact that they do not provide mammograms to women, but only provide mammogram referrals. “It was nothing they were doing wrong,” she explained. “We have decided not to fund, whereever possible, pass-through grants. We were giving them money, they were sending women out for mammograms. What we would like to have are clinics where we can directly fund mammograms.”

So if they've really changed their funding criteria, this reversal on investigations won't matter much, as PP wouldn't qualify for future grants.

35 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:40:38am

Speaking of "raising awareness" as Komen claims most of their donations fund... I hope this event DOES raise significant awareness about corporate fundraising and how much of it is marketing to sell products and profit and how little is actually going to the good. Komen and its corporate "partners" are certainly not alone in this.

One such thing that always burns me is the grocery store "buy a bag of groceries for the poor" things. They bag up canned goods and stuff and sell it at full profit to donate to the food bank (or wherever it goes). That same amount of cash donated directly to the Food Bank would have been turned into many times that amount of food.

Go direct. Do some real good with your donations.

36 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:41:13am

re: #34 simoom

The thing is, by yesterday evening Komen had already abandoned their Congressional inquiry explanation and adopted a new one about a new grant strategy to only to places that directly perform biopsies & mammograms. From yesterday:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

So if they've really changed their funding criteria, this reversal on investigations won't matter much, as PP wouldn't qualify for future grants.

Bingo. They've already moved the goalposts, even though they're saying PP can actually try kicking now.

37 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:41:34am

re: #20 Charles

Notice in the quote above: Komen board member John Raffaelli is explicitly admitting that the decision to cut off Planned Parenthood was politically driven.

John D. Raffaelli

John D. Raffaelli is the founding partner of Capitol Counsel LLC. He has more than 25 years of experience in federal policy and policymaking, with an emphasis on taxation, finance, health care, international trade, and general business matters. In addition to being called a “big-name lobbyist” by the Washington Post, he has been nationally recognized as one of the most effective lobbyists in Washington and is respected by both Democratic and Republican lawmakers for his knowledge of the legislative process and his ability to develop public policy solutions to client problems. In 2007, he was named by Washingtonian Magazine as one of the top 25 lobbyists in the Nation’s Capital, and he has made every top lobbyist list in the magazine since it began publishing them...

Lobbying Spending Database-Capitol Counsel, 2011 | OpenSecrets

Pharm/Health Prod Groups That Have Retained Capitol Counsel:

Amgen Inc $80,000 - Pharm/Health Prod
AstraZeneca PLC $120,000 AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals Pharm/Health Prod
Cardinal Health $380,000 - Pharm/Health Prod
General Electric $80,000 General Electric Healthcare Pharm/Health Prod
Hologic Inc $80,000 - Pharm/Health Prod
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $150,000 - Pharm/Health Prod
Roche Holdings $240,000 Genentech Inc Pharm/Health Prod
Sanofi-Aventis $360,000 - Pharm/Health Prod

38 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:41:37am

re: #26 lawhawk

Sad thing is that this ends up hurting those who SGK claims to help - people who want a cure to breast cancer and those who might be helped by early screening/detection.

Agreed. I think the level of hate has reached the level that they may not be able to recover. It seems that this has been brewing for a while now.
HOLY CRAP. Komen's PR Nightmare Just Got Even Worse!

Well, guess what documentary just happens to be opening TODAY?

PINK RIBBONS (TRAILER)

Youtube Video
39 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:41:51am

re: #34 simoom

The thing is, by yesterday evening Komen had already abandoned their Congressional inquiry explanation and adopted a new one about a new grant strategy to only to places that directly perform biopsies & mammograms. From yesterday:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

So if they've really changed their funding criteria, this reversal on investigations won't matter much, as PP wouldn't qualify for future grants.

So the reason's still bullshit, except now the excuse isn't "they're under investigation," but rather "they're not doing the work themselves!" Either way, it's political.

40 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:45:38am

Lobbyists working for Capitol Counsel:
Raffaelli, John D

Alliance for Savings & Investment
American Academy of Dermatology Assn
American Academy of Ophthalmology
American Bankers Assn (American Bankers Insurance Assn)*
American Health Care Assn
American Petroleum Institute
American Wind Energy Assn
AstraZeneca PLC (AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals)*
Aveta
Bass Enterprises Production
Beam Inc
Blue Cross/Blue Shield (Health Care Service Corp)*
Caesar's Entertainment Operating Co
Cardinal Health
Commission/Case Manager Certification
Data Treasury Corp
Edison Electric Institute
Expedia Inc
Fortune Brands Home & Security
Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold
Fresenius Medical Care (Fresenius Medical Care North America)*
General Aviation Manufacturers Assn
General Electric
General Electric (General Electric Healthcare)*
Golden Ventures
Harrah's Entertainment
Healthcare Leadership Council
Hologic Inc
Home Depot
Horizon Lines
Intuit Inc
Joint Cmsn on Accred of Healthcare Orgs
National Assn of Beverage Importers
National Business Aviation Assn
Natl Assn Real Estate Investment Trusts
Oaktree Capital Management
Parsons & Whittemore
Pew Charitable Trusts
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America
Real Estate Roundtable
Renco Group
Renewables for Pub-Traded Prtnrships Gp
Rent-A-Center
Reynolds American
Rio Tinto Group
Roche Holdings (Genentech Inc)*
Sanofi-Aventis
SNCF America
State Fund Congressional Action Group
US Telecom Assn
Wal-Mart Stores
Westfield Group of Australia (Westfield Corp)*
Win America Campaign
Workers Compensation Fund
Xcel Energy

Note on Hologic:

Hologic ®, Inc.(NASDAQ: HOLX) is a leading developer, manufacturer and supplier of premium medical diagnostic equipment and medical imaging equipment, as well as surgical products dedicated to serving the healthcare needs of women throughout the world.

41 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:45:48am

re: #20 Charles

Notice in the quote above: Komen board member John Raffaelli is explicitly admitting that the decision to cut off Planned Parenthood was politically driven.

From the NYT:

Komen’s founder and chief executive, Nancy G. Brinker, held a news conference Thursday and insisted that the organization’s decision had nothing to do with abortion or politics. Rather, she said, it resulted from improved grant-making procedures and was not intended to make a target of Planned Parenthood.

“We think this is the right thing to do from a stewardships standpoint,” Ms. Brinker said.

Her comments directly contradicted those of John D. Raffaelli, a Komen board member and Washington lobbyist, who told The New York Times on Wednesday that Komen made the changes to its grant-making process specifically to end its relationship with Planned Parenthood. Mr. Raffaelli said that Komen had become increasingly worried that an investigation of Planned Parenthood by Representative Cliff Stearns, Republican of Florida, would damage Komen’s credibility with donors.

[...]

Avoiding this kind of controversy was the very reason Komen chose a quiet ending to its relationship with Planned Parenthood, Mr. Raffaelli said. And he said Komen was bitterly disappointed that Planned Parenthood was using Komen’s decision to raise money.

[...]

[Link corrected]

42 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:45:56am

This is almost scandalous.

43 dragonath  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:46:48am

re: #30 Simply Sarah

*Sssh* Pay no attention to the carcinogens behind the curtain.

Nothing quite says "partners for the cure" like Dyneon™ PFA (perfluoroalkoxy)!!

//

Seriously though, this is really amoral and sick.

44 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:47:19am

re: #41 wrenchwench

From the NYT:

Yep. Brinker was just flat out lying about this in her video statement, or she's so out of touch with the policy people she was unaware of it. Most likely the former.

45 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:48:38am

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I think the level of hate has reached the level that they may not be able to recover. It seems that this has been brewing for a while now.
HOLY CRAP. Komen's PR Nightmare Just Got Even Worse!

PINK RIBBONS (TRAILER)

[Video]

Actually, I'm seeing a lot of anger, disappointment, and criticism directed at the Komen Foundation, but I haven't seen any "hate."

The hate is all coming from the other side, the people who are using every avenue possible to attack Planned Parenthood.

46 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:48:45am

re: #34 simoom

The thing is, by yesterday evening Komen had already abandoned their Congressional inquiry explanation and adopted a new one about a retooled grant strategy that only funded places that directly perform biopsies & mammograms. From yesterday:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

So if they've really changed their funding criteria, this reversal on investigations won't matter much, as PP wouldn't qualify for future grants.

Of course, that one's in the process of being changed because an amazingly large number of places that get the grants do "pass-through". They, (like PP), have physicians do the basic exam, and if lumps or other indicators are found they send the patients to a clinic that has the equipment, and pay for it with a voucher against the grant.

expect plan C within a few days.

47 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:49:31am

re: #41 wrenchwench

I had the wrong link on that.

48 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:50:41am

re: #41 wrenchwench

Avoiding this kind of controversy was the very reason Komen chose a quiet ending to its relationship with Planned Parenthood, Mr. Raffaelli said. And he said Komen was bitterly disappointed that Planned Parenthood was using Komen’s decision to raise money.

*sputter* Really, how DARE they try to replace the lost funds that were used to actually help underserved women get healthcare!

49 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:50:50am

re: #46 kirkspencer

Of course, that one's in the process of being changed because an amazingly large number of places that get the grants do "pass-through". They, (like PP), have physicians do the basic exam, and if lumps or other indicators are found they send the patients to a clinic that has the equipment, and pay for it with a voucher against the grant.

expect plan C within a few days.

I was just about to check into how many clinics do "pass-through" as well. You're right, we'll see a new excuse within a matter of days, if not hours. They will do everything they can to make up some excuse for why singling out PP is anything but political.

50 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:51:02am

re: #31 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Of course. The supposed "blanket policy" was going to "force" Komen to cut off PP, but Penn State's not seeing its own funding being pulled. And unlike PP, Penn is actually facing a federal investigation involving criminal charges, as opposed to a House "investigation" involving one Republican grandstander who's yet to hold a single hearing.

And if SGK's spin is to be believed, Penn State should have been cut off before Planned Parenthood:

Komen said today that the group would “amend the criteria to make clear that disqualifying investigations must be criminal and conclusive in nature and not political.”

So... when does Penn State get cut under their 'new rules?'

51 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:52:11am

Is Komen really interested in finding a cure for breast cancer? Or are they really a front group of sorts for big pharma and other health care industry groups?

52 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:53:02am

re: #48 allegro

*sputter* Really, how DARE they try to replace the lost funds that were used to actually help underserved women get healthcare!

The wingnuts I've heard have basically said the same thing, "confused" as to why there's so much outrage against Komen when PP's making so much money in the wake of the initial decision. Some have actually tried to suggest that PP's purposefully using the outrage to "cash in."

53 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:53:05am

re: #51 Gus 802

Is Komen really interested in finding a cure for breast cancer? Or are they really a front group of sorts for big pharma and other health care industry groups?

That's a good question. I'm not so sure anymore.

54 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:53:48am

re: #51 Gus 802

Is Komen really interested in finding a cure for breast cancer? Or are they really a front group of sorts for big pharma and other health care industry groups?

They're a marketing group that finds excuses to sell pink shit while lobbying against anything that would actually help women with breast cancer.

You know, like how those oil industry front groups lobby to kill environmental laws.

55 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:54:21am

re: #50 makeitstop

And if SGK's spin is to be believed, Penn State should have been cut off before Planned Parenthood:

So... when does Penn State get cut under their 'new rules?'

The "conclusive in nature" bit is their out, as the investigations against Penn are on-going, meaning they'll say "When charges are brought against Penn, we'll drop the funding."

56 neilk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:56:25am

I was skeptical of that statement from the start, it seemed too easy to deny and reneg on. Then I saw this excerpt from the Komen CEO's autobiography. The notoriously pro-life gym chain Curves withdrew support from Komen in 2010 over their grants to Planned Parenthood. Nancy Brinker, Komen founder and CEO, wrote:

The grants in question supplied breast health counseling, screening, and treatment to rural women, poor women, Native American women, many women of color who were underserved--if served at all--in areas where Planned Parenthood facilities were often the only infrastructure available. Though it meant losing corporate money from Curves, we were not about to turn our backs on these women.

57 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:56:49am

re: #51 Gus 802

Is Komen really interested in finding a cure for breast cancer? Or are they really a front group of sorts for big pharma and other health care industry groups?

That seems to be the prevailing theory. Go figure, it was all a clever ruse to actually cause cancer instead of cure it. Pretty clever.

58 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:57:07am

re: #28 leftynyc

The whole "apology" is designed to divert attention from the fact that while SGK will no longer include political investigations in its criteria for funding grants, it is now explicitly stating that they're not beholden to issuing grants to PP going forward.

Now, that could be restating the policy that existed beforehand, but it also means that those chapters that might not have wanted to give to PP out of political considerations will have the ability to do so going forward, offering this up at proof that they're simply abiding by the aforementioned policy (no change).

It has also revealed that some chapters around the country aren't going to sit idly by and let the national organization destroy their charitable processes and have said that they will nonetheless continue funding PP.

Bad jobu all the way around for SGK.

59 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:57:56am

re: #54 Lidane

They're a marketing group that finds excuses to sell pink shit while lobbying against anything that would actually help women with breast cancer.

You know, like how those oil industry front groups lobby to kill environmental laws.

Certainly raises my eyebrows that Komen board member, John Raffaelli, is also a lobbyist for the leading manufacturer of mammography and other breast imaging instruments, Hologic. Information on their CEO:

Robert A. Cascella
President, Chief Executive Officer and Director
Hologic, Inc.
Bedford , MA
Sector: HEALTHCARE / Medical Appliances & Equipment
Officer since February 2003

56 Years Old
Mr. Cascella has been one of our directors since June 2008. He has served as the our Chief Executive Officer since November 2009. He joined us in February 2003 as Chief Operating Officer and was promoted to President in September 2003. Prior to joining us, from 1998 to 2003, Mr. Cascella was a managing partner of CFG Capital LLC, an investment banking firm specializing in healthcare. Prior to joining CFG Capital, from 1995 to 1998, Mr. Cascella was Chief Operating Officer and Vice President of Finance for NeoVision Corporation, a developer of 3D ultrasound technology used for real-time guidance of interventional breast procedures. Mr. Cascella received a B.S. in Finance from Fairfield University in 1978. As our Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Cascella has direct responsibility for the Company?s strategy and operations. This position, together with his many years of experience in the healthcare industry, make him an invaluable contributor to the Board.

60 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:58:47am

re: #55 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The "conclusive in nature" bit is their out, as the investigations against Penn are on-going, meaning they'll say "When charges are brought against Penn, we'll drop the funding."

(Nitpick mode)
Penn (University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia) and Penn State (Pennsylvania State University in State College) are different universities. The terms should not be used interchangably.
(/Nitpick mode)

One is Ivy League, the other is Joe Pa U.

61 Charleston Chew  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 11:59:19am

I still don't get why people are shocked that a Texas Republican politician's charity might not support Planned Parenthood. The real story is that they ever did in the first place.

62 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:00:17pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

That seems to be the prevailing theory. Go figure, it was all a clever ruse to actually cause cancer instead of cure it. Pretty clever.

Right. And by getting more women to get more mammograms they're making money for their board members who are lobbying for the manufacturers of that equipment. This is a conflict of interest IMO. It's a money making scheme you can say. They probably make more money through indirect profits like this than they take in. That is also that Komen helps make huge profits for the healthcare industry.

63 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:00:21pm

re: #60 oaktree

(Nitpick mode)
Penn (University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia) and Penn State (Pennsylvania State University in State College) are different universities. The terms should not be used interchangably.
(/Nitpick mode)

One is Ivy League, the other is Joe Pa U.

Well, they all look the same to me.

//

64 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:01:45pm

re: #55 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The "conclusive in nature" bit is their out, as the investigations against Penn are on-going, meaning they'll say "When charges are brought against Penn, we'll drop the funding."

I really don't like this comparison in that the Penn State medical center hasn't done anything wrong and there is no investigation of that department. The investigation is against the sports department so I really don't see this as an equivalent. That isn't to say the the whole investigation excuse wasn't a total scam just to deny future funds to PP - I believe it was - I just don't like to see a false equivalence used. It also gives credence to the argument that by giving to PP to do breast cancer screenings that the funds also support abortion services, i.e. money to the organization is money to the entire organization to fund everything it does.

65 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:02:53pm

re: #61 Charleston Chew

I still don't get why people are shocked that a Texas Republican politician's charity might not support Planned Parenthood. The real story is that they ever did in the first place.

I think the reason for the reaction to this story is that people were surprised and alarmed to discover that the religious right had managed to snake their influence into a group that was supposed to be totally about helping women.

66 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:03:04pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Is Komen really interested in finding a cure for breast cancer? Or are they really a front group of sorts for big pharma and other health care industry groups?

They are a marketing group for any company that signs up for their pink product placement. This includes, but by no means is limited to big pharma.

BTW big pharma totally does not want a CURE for cancer (is such a thing even attainable?) they want a treatment that lasts for a lifetime and cost $$$$.

67 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:03:13pm

re: #64 allegro

I really don't like this comparison in that the Penn State medical center hasn't done anything wrong and there is no investigation of that department. The investigation is against the sports department so I really don't see this as an equivalent. That isn't to say the the whole investigation excuse wasn't a total scam just to deny future funds to PP - I believe it was - I just don't like to see a false equivalence used. It also gives credence to the argument that by giving to PP to do breast cancer screenings that the funds also support abortion services, i.e. money to the organization is money to the entire organization to fund everything it does.

It's a pot, kettle argument. Nope, Penn State as a whole isn't under investigation. But neither is Planned Parenthood as a whole. Since all of PP is blocked because of the inquiry on one sub-group...

68 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:06:45pm

re: #67 kirkspencer

It's a pot, kettle argument. Nope, Penn State as a whole isn't under investigation. But neither is Planned Parenthood as a whole. Since all of PP is blocked because of the inquiry on one sub-group...

Valid point.

69 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:06:49pm

re: #66 Alouette

They are a marketing group for any company that signs up for their pink product placement. This includes, but by no means is limited to big pharma.

BTW big pharma totally does not want a CURE for cancer (is such a thing even attainable?) they want a treatment that lasts for a lifetime and cost $$$.

That's likely the censored list. Notice how the pharma and healthcare corporations are missing. This really is scandalous.

70 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:06:50pm

re: #64 allegro

I really don't like this comparison in that the Penn State medical center hasn't done anything wrong and there is no investigation of that department. The investigation is against the sports department so I really don't see this as an equivalent. That isn't to say the the whole investigation excuse wasn't a total scam just to deny future funds to PP - I believe it was - I just don't like to see a false equivalence used. It also gives credence to the argument that by giving to PP to do breast cancer screenings that the funds also support abortion services, i.e. money to the organization is money to the entire organization to fund everything it does.

Penn St. as a whole is under investigation for its handling of the scandal, not simply the sports department, just as PP as a whole is under "investigation" for allegations of using federal funds for abortions. There's no false equivalence here.

71 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:07:58pm

re: #63 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, they all look the same to me.

//

I understand how Wharton can make some people think that.
//

72 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:08:14pm

re: #70 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Penn St. as a whole is under investigation for its handling of the scandal, not simply the sports department, just as PP as a whole is under "investigation" for allegations of using federal funds for abortions. There's no false equivalence here.

I am corrected. Thankee.

73 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:08:17pm

re: #66 Alouette

Thing is that people are always going to get cancer (unless someone comes up with a vaccination that prevents cancers in the first place). People are going to require treatment regardless of whether there's a cure or not - and by most measures, if you're in remission for 5+ years, you're considered cured.

So I think it's misleading to think that big pharma isn't interested in a cure.

That isn't to say that monetary considerations of what treatment paths are or aren't considered doesn't come into play. It does. They want to make gobsmacking amounts of money, and that certainly influences things. It's a really cynical way of looking at the medical-industrial complex.

74 neilk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:02pm

re: #61 Charleston Chew

The fact that a charity spent so many years and so much effort building up near-universal goodwill and respect, only to throw it away in a day so that they could poke liberals in the eye, is what's shocking. Perhaps it's surprising as well that a Texas Republican politician could start a foundation that was totally nonideological in the first place, but she did.

75 engineer cat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:11pm

so newt is now labeling obama and romney "big food stamp and little food stamp"

76 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:18pm

re: #72 allegro

I am corrected. Thankee.

Not a prob.

77 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:09:48pm

Susan G. Komen for the Cure | Partners & Sponsors | New Balance Athletic Shoe, Inc.

Let's go for a quick Google ride. Oh look:

Child Workers at New Balance Party

The Li Kai factory likes to hire very young women, mostly between 18 and 23, but some as young as 14 years of age, an obvious violation of China's law.

78 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:10:14pm

re: #75 engineer dog

so newt is now labeling obama and romney "big food stamp and little food stamp"

What wit.

oops, mistyped.

What wit?

79 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:11:40pm

I have to say - I've been watching in horror for years as the religious right gained more and more influence in US politics. It's one of the big reasons for my split with the GOP and the right.

The fanatics have been steadily working behind the scenes for decades to increase their reach and power. This Komen controversy will turn out to be a good thing if it starts waking people up to the very real threat the fundamentalists pose to human rights in America.

80 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:12:54pm

Newt Pulls Out All The Plugs On Anti-Romney Rhetoric

Addressing fired up supporters in a cowboy-themed Vegas bar on Friday, Gingrich offered a new depiction of Romney as a tool of George Soros who doesn’t respect the Founding Fathers and is little different from Obama himself.

Gingrich mentioned Soros, who gave an interview in Switzerland last week saying he expected Romney and Obama to pursue similar policies, more than a half dozen times in his speech. The billionaire financier received boos and jeers at almost every mention — one supporter shouted out “The Devil!”

“I do not believe the Republican party wants to nominate a George Soros-approved candidate,” he said, saying they need someone who “believes in the Declaration of Independence” rather than “somebody who is clearly against the American ideal.”

He added that: “This is a campaign of people power versus money power — you look at the George Soroses of the world you know who their candidate is.”

Says the man who is only still running because a billionaire thru him a lifeline to run.

81 Charleston Chew  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:12:59pm

re: #65 Charles

I think the reason for the reaction to this story is that people were surprised and alarmed to discover that the religious right had managed to snake their influence into a group that was supposed to be totally about helping women.

Right-wing politics snaked its way into an organization founded by a major Republican backer and multi-office political appointee. I'm ... shocked?

82 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:13:55pm

re: #81 Charleston Chew

Right-wing politics snaked its way into an organization founded by a major Republican backer and multi-office political appointee. I'm ... shocked?

But there are no winnings that you get to have. Everyone out.
/

83 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:14:30pm

re: #77 Gus 802

Susan G. Komen for the Cure | Partners & Sponsors | New Balance Athletic Shoe, Inc.

Let's go for a quick Google ride. Oh look:

Child Workers at New Balance Party

New Balance Goes to China - A Rare Glimpse Inside the Emerging New Corporate World Order

Low Wages and No Rights:

The major complaint in the Li Kai Factory Number 5, which produces for New Balance, is the very low wages, which are well below subsistence levels. The base wage at Factory Number 5 is just 40 cents an hour and $3.22 a day. After mandatory deductions are taken out for dorm and food expenses, the workers' wages actually drop to 32 cents an hour, $ 2.55 a day, and only $12.92 a week.

For the month of December 2005, some workers reported earning just 400 RMB, or $49.32, which comes to 28 cents an hour, $2.24 a day, and $11.38 a week. According to the workers, the month before New Balance, in December work Teams # 17 and #25 on the 6th floor of Factory Number 5 spontaneously went out on a one-hour work stoppage, protesting the low wages and refusing to go back into work. It turns out that these sorts of small-scale, spontaneous protests are relatively common in Factory Number 5. Nonetheless, management always prevails because the workers have no rights and no voice. In order to survive in such conditions, the workers have no choice but to take a deep breath, swallow their pride, and force themselves to return to work. But they are definitely not the happy campers New Balance claims they are.

The reference to "prostitutes" in the workers own chant is in there because in Mandarin it rhymes, but much more importantly, it sums up their feeling about Li Kai and the New Balance management.

For the workers, management represents the Fat Boss who cares nothing at all about the workers, treating them like prostitutes to exploit and then discard for as little pay as possible.

Even the colorful uniforms, which stand out in the mass assembly, had to be paid for by the workers. New workers are charged 50 RMB, or $6.17—about two days wages, to cover formalities and paper work, but mostly for the purchase of two work uniforms. When the workers leave the factory they must turn in their uniforms, but are not given their money back. The workers know management uses the uniforms to create a good impression that Li Kai is a well organized and efficient factory. They object to the fact that management makes them pay for it.

84 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:14:40pm

re: #59 Gus 802

Certainly raises my eyebrows that Komen board member, John Raffaelli, is also a lobbyist for the leading manufacturer of mammography and other breast imaging instruments, Hologic. Information on their CEO:

Do you think that would have any influence on SGK's position on the controversy over how many mammograms women should get?

Nah...

[...]

When you are referred for a mammogram or PSA test, the doctor is likely following the guidelines of the two leading national cancer research and information organizations primarily responsible for setting public health policy on cancer screening: The American Cancer Society (ACS) and the National Cancer Institute (NCI). Both, along with other well-funded, high-profile organizations, such as Susan G. Komen for the Cure (SGK), recommend regular mammogram screening of symptom-free women beginning at age 40 – and they say they will maintain that position despite the new Task Force guidelines.

Both ACS and SGK have connections with numerous corporations in the chemical, cosmetic, and pharmaceutical industries, many of which derive substantial income from the screening and treatment of breast cancer. There is more money in the detection and treatment of breast cancer than in preventing it, and that leads to an enormous conflict of interest.

SGK for example owns stock in General Electric, one of the largest makers of mammogram machines in the world. Radiologists sit on the on the SGK board. Get the picture?

[...]

85 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:14:50pm

re: #79 Charles

I have to say - I've been watching in horror for years as the religious right gained more and more influence in US politics. It's one of the big reasons for my split with the GOP and the right.

The fanatics have been steadily working behind the scenes for decades to increase their reach and power. This Komen controversy will turn out to be a good thing if it starts waking people up to the very real threat the fundamentalists pose to human rights in America.

My worry is that the wrong conclusions will be drawn from this episode, that many of those outraged will not get all the facts and conclude that Komen just "made a mistake" and continue on their ways. Today's "reversal" seems to be towards that, trying to put down the outrage by declaring that PP will be able to apply for grants, with it unspoken that Komen can silently deny those grant applications to little or no outrage later.

86 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:17:46pm

re: #84 wrenchwench

Do you think that would have any influence on SGK's position on the controversy over how many mammograms women should get?

Nah...

Mind boggling. Why are people putting up with this shit?

87 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:18:34pm

Most intriguing.

88 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:19:34pm

re: #84 wrenchwench

To be fair, citing a thermography site-- which is a competitive technology with mammograms-- isn't the best idea if you're trying to demonstrate bias.

What you cited is true, however, mammograms have become de-emphasized, partially because, well, they're radioactive.

89 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:20:49pm

re: #79 Charles

I have to say - I've been watching in horror for years as the religious right gained more and more influence in US politics. It's one of the big reasons for my split with the GOP and the right.

The fanatics have been steadily working behind the scenes for decades to increase their reach and power. This Komen controversy will turn out to be a good thing if it starts waking people up to the very real threat the fundamentalists pose to human rights in America.

It also should alert people to the ways that corporate funding of charities influences the charities in ways contrary to their mission, but favorable to the corporation doing the funding. Yet, we are told that private charities are better than anything government-funded. And corporate ownership tends to be conservative and even right-wing. And overlaps with the fundamentalist influence.

90 A Mom Anon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:21:25pm

I've been thinking about this since the story broke,marjoriemoon's comments in yesterday's thread about this got me thinking even more. Is it really ok for charities to be structured like corporations? And if local people can raise money and hold events,do they even need that corporate structure at all? How many people need to be taking chunks of money out of a charity before money gets to the actual cause? I honestly don't know,but it doesn't sit well with me. How much "awareness"(which seems to be where a LOT of the money goes)is needed for most causes? Aren't we aware there is cancer,autism,heart disease,AIDS and that our military families need our help?
I am jaded,as I said before. My son has Asperger's,I went the route of being Volunteer Mom when he was younger. It wasn't a positive experience for me or my son. I have no idea what the answers are but surely the corporate model for charity can't be the ONLY way,can it?

91 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:22:31pm

re: #88 Obdicut

To be fair, citing a thermography site-- which is a competitive technology with mammograms-- isn't the best idea if you're trying to demonstrate bias.

What you cited is true, however, mammograms have become de-emphasized, partially because, well, they're radioactive.

Yeah, that was sloppy of me to hastily grab evidence from someone with their own agenda to make my point, which was your second paragraph.

92 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:22:40pm

So in a nutshell, many of the people sitting on the Komen board are profiting from breast cancer.

There are many nutshells in this game that Komen is playing.

93 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:23:20pm

re: #79 Charles

I have to say - I've been watching in horror for years as the religious right gained more and more influence in US politics. It's one of the big reasons for my split with the GOP and the right.

The fanatics have been steadily working behind the scenes for decades to increase their reach and power. This Komen controversy will turn out to be a good thing if it starts waking people up to the very real threat the fundamentalists pose to human rights in America.

Hi Charles!
Religion has always been apart of US Politics.. Those seats sitting in the pews every Sunday has shaped America for years.
This last decade has seen a sharp turn to the right for religion in the US.
It has deeply hurt the Grand old Party from within the ranks..

94 Big Steve  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:26:01pm

re: #54 Lidane

They're a marketing group that finds excuses to sell pink shit while lobbying against anything that would actually help women with breast cancer.

You know, like how those oil industry front groups lobby to kill environmental laws.

Is this some sort of new Godwin's law.....if an institution exists it will eventually be compared to the oil industry.

95 Charleston Chew  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:27:04pm

re: #94 Big Steve

Is this some sort of new Godwin's law...if an institution exists it will eventually be compared to the oil industry.

Because Big Tobacco was soooo 90s.

96 zora  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:27:53pm

re: #65 Charles

I think the reason for the reaction to this story is that people were surprised and alarmed to discover that the religious right had managed to snake their influence into a group that was supposed to be totally about helping women.

dominionism at work.

97 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:28:00pm

re: #90 A Mom Anon

I've been thinking about this since the story broke,marjoriemoon's comments in yesterday's thread about this got me thinking even more. Is it really ok for charities to be structured like corporations? And if local people can raise money and hold events,do they even need that corporate structure at all? How many people need to be taking chunks of money out of a charity before money gets to the actual cause? I honestly don't know,but it doesn't sit well with me. How much "awareness"(which seems to be where a LOT of the money goes)is needed for most causes? Aren't we aware there is cancer,autism,heart disease,AIDS and that our military families need our help?
I am jaded,as I said before. My son has Asperger's,I went the route of being Volunteer Mom when he was younger. It wasn't a positive experience for me or my son. I have no idea what the answers are but surely the corporate model for charity can't be the ONLY way,can it?

I'm starting to think government programs could be advantageous for the reasons you give. The government funds research and care. We should call out the private charities who decry government programs as inferior or inappropriate. And oppose politicians when they want to cut government funding of science and health care.

98 Big Steve  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:28:18pm

re: #95 Charleston Chew

Because Big Tobacco was sooo 90s.

So with Komen are we now on Big Breast?

99 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:29:23pm

we used to cure things, now we just treat them. It's more profitable that way.

100 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:30:06pm

re: #99 Dreggas

we used to cure things, now we just treat them. It's more profitable that way.

And raise awareness.

101 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:30:40pm

re: #88 Obdicut

To be fair, citing a thermography site-- which is a competitive technology with mammograms-- isn't the best idea if you're trying to demonstrate bias.

What you cited is true, however, mammograms have become de-emphasized, partially because, well, they're radioactive.

That's where Hologic comes into play.

Hologic is currently developing tomosynthesis technology for breast cancer diagnosis. Hologic first demonstrated the technology at the Radiological Society of North America in November 2003. It provided patient images and a prototype add-on to its Selenia digital mammography system. Clinical trials for Hologic's tomosynthesis technology began in the summer of 2004.

As noted above Komen board member, John Raffaelli, is a lobbyist for Hologic.

102 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:31:19pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

And raise awareness.

Well, raising awareness is a good thing when it's, for example, raising awareness of the need to pay attention to lumps in your breast.

103 simoom  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:33:37pm

Ezra Klein: Komen’s accidental case against breast exams

Which gets to one of the weirder wrinkles in this debate: The argument, made by Komen, that mammography counts as a cancer prevention service, but clinical breast exams don’t. If Komen sticks to that position, it could be a reason for them to refuse future grant applications from Planned Parenthood. But it would be a strange reason, given that Komen’s Web site currently recommends clinical breast exams for all women over 20.

...

Planned Parenthood acts as a sort of primary care doctor in this process: You go to them, and they tell you what to do next. “Planned Parenthood offers breast exams at every one of our family planning health centers,” says Tait Sye, a spokesman for Planned Parenthood. “And like the vast majority of primary care physicians and ob-gyns, we refer our patients to other facilities for mammograms when indicated based on a breast exam, age or family history. Last year, we provided nearly 750,000 breast exams.”

One argument for Planned Parenthood’s role is that many women don’t have a primary care doctor, and don’t know where they need to go for a mammogram, or even that they need to go for a mammogram. Planned Parenthood, which often has a long-standing relationship with poorer women whose attachment to the health care system is more marginal, helps set them up with whatever cancer screenings are most appropriate for them.

...

If Komen had initially argued that they would no longer fund organizations that didn’t directly provide mammograms, they would, perhaps, have had an easier time explaining their decision. Of course, that might have meant defunding a much larger swath of organizations. It also would have meant changing their recommendations to women.

104 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:34:12pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

raising awareness? You mean getting people to feel good about themselves by buying products with a pink ribbon on them in the belief that part of the proceeds will go to actual research rather than where they really go, the corporate larder?

105 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:36:27pm

re: #104 Dreggas

raising awareness? You mean getting people to feel good about themselves by buying products with a pink ribbon on them in the belief that part of the proceeds will go to actual research rather than where they really go, the corporate larder?

Yeah, that's what I meant.

re: #102 Obdicut

Well, raising awareness is a good thing when it's, for example, raising awareness of the need to pay attention to lumps in your breast.

Of course.

Did you know that more women die of heart disease than cancer?

106 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:36:56pm

re: #103 simoom

Ezra Klein: Komen’s accidental case against breast exams

I believe that PP also gives women vouchers to pay for those mammograms - they don't just refer them. This is a big deal since the mammograms are unaffordable for many low income women.

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:37:36pm

Mona Charen:

There is no inconsistency in trying to save the lives of women afflicted with breast cancer and declining to provide funding for an organization that takes the lives of women (albeit unborn ones) every day.

108 simoom  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:39:41pm

re: #103 simoom

Ezra Klein: Komen’s accidental case against breast exams

^ BTW, I don't think this was quite so accidental. The "Planned Parenthood doesn't actually do mammograms" Red Herring is a popular talking point on the Right (particularly in anti-abortion circles), and was likely just a straw SGK grabbed on to when flailing about during this PR disaster.

109 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:39:56pm

re: #107 Sergey Romanov

Mona Charen:

//Does that mean they'd fund planned parenthood again if they promised to only abort male babies?

110 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:40:42pm

re: #107 Sergey Romanov

Mona Charen:

She's absolutely right - there is no inconsistency there. Where there is inconsistency is raising money to screen women for breast cancer and then deny funds to an agency that does just that.

111 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:43:49pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Oh hey, so KT, did you finally decide to read up on this topic before making your sweeping conclusions that scolded nasty liberals for fighting back?

Glad to see you've caught up to the rest of us!

112 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:43:55pm

re: #108 simoom

^ BTW, I don't think this was quite so accidental. The "Planned Parenthood doesn't actually do mammograms" Red Herring is a popular talking point on the Right (particularly in anti-abortion circles), and was likely just a straw SGK grabbed on to when flailing about during this PR disaster.

OK then. Now I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a matter of a return on an investment. Having nothing to do with abortion, etc. Is it possible that Komen pulled funding because they weren't seeing a return on their investment with Planned Parenthood for the Komen board members with a vested interest in GE Healthcare, Hologic, etc?

113 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:45:37pm

re: #90 A Mom Anon

I've been thinking about this since the story broke,marjoriemoon's comments in yesterday's thread about this got me thinking even more. Is it really ok for charities to be structured like corporations? And if local people can raise money and hold events,do they even need that corporate structure at all? How many people need to be taking chunks of money out of a charity before money gets to the actual cause? I honestly don't know,but it doesn't sit well with me. How much "awareness"(which seems to be where a LOT of the money goes)is needed for most causes? Aren't we aware there is cancer,autism,heart disease,AIDS and that our military families need our help?
I am jaded,as I said before. My son has Asperger's,I went the route of being Volunteer Mom when he was younger. It wasn't a positive experience for me or my son. I have no idea what the answers are but surely the corporate model for charity can't be the ONLY way,can it?

Hi again!

It probably has more to do with personal experience than anything and I can see your point, but for an organization to be successful, I think it has to be structured like a corporation - to able to raise these huge numbers. There are plenty of other breast cancer fundraisers, but you don't hear about them. They contribute good money, too, but not like SGK who made over 1 billion for cancer research and treatment. In the end, there are only one group of losers, unfortunately.

As far as awareness, it's hard to separate cash from people for charity, especially these days, so the "awareness" does help. The Veterans, actually, is one of my pet peeves and, unfortunately, is probably the largest ripoff around. I used to give them money, but stopped. I donate clothing and furniture instead to the local hospital. Only about $.10 of every dollar goes to the Vets. I had a terrible argument over the phone with a Vet solicitor who refused to tell me the ratio and screamed at me that "he needed to make a living, too." I never, ever begrudged anyone a living, but not on the backs of any charity.

114 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:45:47pm

re: #111 Shvaughn

Oh hey, so KT, did you finally decide to read up on this topic before making your sweeping conclusions that scolded nasty liberals for fighting back?

Glad to see you've caught up to the rest of us!

Straight to the snark!

waytogo!!!

115 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:46:03pm

re: #111 Shvaughn

Oh hey, so KT, did you finally decide to read up on this topic before making your sweeping conclusions that scolded nasty liberals for fighting back?

Glad to see you've caught up to the rest of us!

I don't find that in #38.
I see no budging there.

116 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:46:06pm

re: #99 Dreggas

we used to cure things, now we just treat them. It's more profitable that way.

That's just bullshit.

117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:47:24pm

re: #115 Sergey Romanov

I don't find that in #38.
I see no budging there.

(Needless to say, I find that sad.)

118 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:49:32pm

re: #99 Dreggas

we used to cure things, now we just treat them. It's more profitable that way.

This isn't actually true, in either case. We didn't use to cure things more than we do now-- we have a lot of cures that weren't previously available. And why we tend towards palliative is a much larger discussion, involving insurance and the way that pharma research operates.

119 calochortus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:51:08pm

I'm quite willing to believe that SGK started with the very best of intentions and did good. Three decades ago most people didn't feel comfortable talking about breast cancer right out loud in public. Neither breasts nor cancer were suitable topics of discussion. Raising "awareness" was a euphemism for making the discussion public. Sadly, over the years, the mission has morphed into more, bigger, faster, as it were and they seem to have somewhat neglected actual research and breast health.
This has been years in the making.

120 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:52:04pm

re: #118 Obdicut

This isn't actually true, in either case. We didn't use to cure things more than we do now-- we have a lot of cures that weren't previously available. And why we tend towards palliative is a much larger discussion, involving insurance and the way that pharma research operates.

It reeks to me of "doctors don't really cure anything. They keep you sick just to make more money." I don't know what to say to anyone who thinks that other than, it's bullshit.

121 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:52:24pm

re: #118 Obdicut

This isn't actually true, in either case. We didn't use to cure things more than we do now-- we have a lot of cures that weren't previously available. And why we tend towards palliative is a much larger discussion, involving insurance and the way that pharma research operates.

We could cure a lot more things, except vaccines are evil and God's will and other such crap.

122 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:53:34pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

I'm starting to think government programs could be advantageous for the reasons you give. The government funds research and care. We should call out the private charities who decry government programs as inferior or inappropriate. And oppose politicians when they want to cut government funding of science and health care.

I'm reminded of Komen's opposition to government-funded health care for women with breast cancer.

123 Big Steve  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:53:50pm

re: #111 Shvaughn

Oh hey, so KT, did you finally decide to read up on this topic before making your sweeping conclusions that scolded nasty liberals for fighting back?

Glad to see you've caught up to the rest of us!

Killgore has been posting on this blog for many many years and I would say that he has done more original research on topics he has posted that any other regular. Like what he says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable.

124 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:54:20pm

re: #118 Obdicut

with all the money that goes to finding a "cure" you'd think they'd have found one by now. But just looking at the major backers of SGK, the companies who make the mammography machines, the drug companies that produce the medications to treat the issues etc. it re-affirms my belief that, at least in this country, no one is really interested in a "cure" for most diseases since treating these illnesses gives a better return on investment for shareholders.

125 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:54:35pm

re: #123 Big Steve

Killgore has been posting on this blog for many many years and I would say that he has done more original research on topics he has posted that any other regular. Like what he says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable.

In this case I think you're wrong.

126 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:54:36pm

re: #122 Shvaughn

I'm reminded of Komen's opposition to government-funded health care for women with breast cancer.

They do? Can you give details?

127 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:55:15pm

re: #126 Sergey Romanov

They do? Can you give details?

It was in that Kos diary....

128 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:55:28pm

bbl

129 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:55:38pm

re: #120 marjoriemoon

It reeks to me of "doctors don't really cure anything. They keep you sick just to make more money." I don't know what to say to anyone who thinks that other than, it's bullshit.

It is true that pharma companies do not aim to cure things. They aim to make money off of medication. So, if they have a good treatment for something, they're unlikely to also research a cure for it. That's true. But another pharma company has every incentive in the world to research a cure for something they don't have a treatment for, especially if the opposition has a treatment for it.

The biggest problem is that pharma companies aim at things like Viagra, which is not anywhere near a critical medication. It's a perfectly good medication, but the reason they researched it is because they knew they could make a hell of a lot of money off of it.

The actual cures for a lot of things are surgical, which really isn't everyone's cup of tea.

130 nines09  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:56:08pm

SG Komen has had a busy few days. Pissed off the left. Pissed off the right. Pissed off solicitors and marketers. Pissed off brand names. Pissed off women. Pissed off Senators. Pissed ON Planned Parenthood. And put a big piss stain on a Pink Ribbon that will always be there. Nice work.

131 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:56:26pm

re: #123 Big Steve

Killgore has been posting on this blog for many many years and I would say that he has done more original research on topics he has posted that any other regular. Like what he says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable.

Did you see his series of post last night that earned him every spot on the bottom ten?

132 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:56:44pm

re: #120 marjoriemoon

Doctor's treat illnesses, diagnose them and there are many who do a lot of hard work to help a patient get better. However there are many more that do make more money by pushing certain drugs as treatments for a given condition. The pharma companies on the other hand have more to gain by simply pushing new treatments vs. finding any sort of cure.

133 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:56:58pm

re: #123 Big Steve

Killgore has said a lot of really ridiculous shit recently, too, that was demonstrably untrue.

He certainly jumped to the conclusion that the two women pepper-sprayed by Tony Bologna were Marxists, had trust-funds, and that they deserved the spraying. None of these things turned out to be true.

134 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:57:26pm

re: #124 Dreggas

with all the money that goes to finding a "cure" you'd think they'd have found one by now. But just looking at the major backers of SGK, the companies who make the mammography machines, the drug companies that produce the medications to treat the issues etc. it re-affirms my belief that, at least in this country, no one is really interested in a "cure" for most diseases since treating these illnesses gives a better return on investment for shareholders.

I don't think it's fair to say they're intentionally avoiding finding a cure to cancer, since that's not a simple concept.

What could potentially be fair is to say that too much effort and focus is on treatment and not enough on preventing it in the first place, but I can't say if this is true, either.

135 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:57:30pm

re: #129 Obdicut

It is true that pharma companies do not aim to cure things. They aim to make money off of medication. So, if they have a good treatment for something, they're unlikely to also research a cure for it. That's true. But another pharma company has every incentive in the world to research a cure for something they don't have a treatment for, especially if the opposition has a treatment for it.

The biggest problem is that pharma companies aim at things like Viagra, which is not anywhere near a critical medication. It's a perfectly good medication, but the reason they researched it is because they knew they could make a hell of a lot of money off of it.

The actual cures for a lot of things are surgical, which really isn't everyone's cup of tea.

In recent years, Big Pharma has been more focused on keeping their patents than anything else, researching a slightly different variation of old medications about to fall into the generic market, ramming them through FDA approval, then spending loads of money getting doctors to put people on the prescription drug that's only slightly different from the old generic.

136 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:57:50pm

re: #130 nines09

SG Komen has had a busy few days. Pissed off the left. Pissed off the right. Pissed off solicitors and marketers. Pissed off brand names. Pissed off women. Pissed off Senators. Pissed ON Planned Parenthood. And put a big piss stain on a Pink Ribbon that will always be there. Nice work.

They really are an object lesson aren't they? LOL

137 Big Steve  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:58:11pm

re: #131 jamesfirecat

yes....

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:58:19pm

re: #123 Big Steve

Killgore has been posting on this blog for many many years and I would say that he has done more original research on topics he has posted that any other regular. Like what he says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable.

He's been pissed off at the left since OWS. So now he jumps to conclusions even with such a clear case as this. It's not just words either. Here, read this sub-thread: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

139 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:58:25pm

Asking pharma companies for a cure for a lot of things is impossible, since the problem is a systemic one. Gene therapy might possibly cure it, but often the problem lies inside the person's actual genetic code and their interaction with the environment. Drugs can't 'cure' most things that are wrong with the body.

140 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:58:30pm

re: #123 Big Steve

Killgore has been posting on this blog for many many years and I would say that he has done more original research on topics he has posted that any other regular. Like what he says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable.

He started out by first scolding, then saying he hadn't actually read anything about it. Hopefully he has now! But earlier this week, he was certainly the laughable one.

Do you need direct comment inks? Cuz I can pull them up if you really think it's necessary to laugh at KT.

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:58:34pm

re: #127 wrenchwench

It was in that Kos diary...

Which of many?

142 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 12:59:58pm

re: #124 Dreggas

with all the money that goes to finding a "cure" you'd think they'd have found one by now. But just looking at the major backers of SGK, the companies who make the mammography machines, the drug companies that produce the medications to treat the issues etc. it re-affirms my belief that, at least in this country, no one is really interested in a "cure" for most diseases since treating these illnesses gives a better return on investment for shareholders.

Do you know how many women are alive today that would have been dead 10 years ago? Or how many women have full range of motion in their arms, when 15 years ago, removal of lymph nodes left them without the use of their arms? Women are living much longer and productive lives today than ever before. One reason is early diagnoses. Another reason is access to mammograms for women who cannot afford it because of funding to Planned Parenthood. And yet another reason is $1 billion in funding from Komen.

143 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:00:12pm

re: #123 Big Steve

Killgore has been posting on this blog for many many years and I would say that he has done more original research on topics he has posted that any other regular. Like what he says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable.

Actually, he drew the conclusion that the 'outrage was overblown' while admitting that he didn't do any research on it. So, there's that.

144 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:00:17pm

re: #134 Simply Sarah

prevention doesn't equal profit for a pharma company. They'd never focus on prevention.

145 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:01:00pm

re: #141 Sergey Romanov

Which of many?

This one here.

146 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:01:01pm

re: #144 Dreggas

prevention doesn't equal profit for a pharma company. They'd never focus on prevention.

That's not true. Plenty of pharma companies make good money off of prophylactic use of their products.

147 Big Steve  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:01:15pm

re: #124 Dreggas

with all the money that goes to finding a "cure" you'd think they'd have found one by now. But just looking at the major backers of SGK, the companies who make the mammography machines, the drug companies that produce the medications to treat the issues etc. it re-affirms my belief that, at least in this country, no one is really interested in a "cure" for most diseases since treating these illnesses gives a better return on investment for shareholders.

Weird that you would say this because the remission rates for breast cancer continue to get better and better. If you think they will find a magic pill that you will take for a week and your cancer will be gone....doubt it. The the cure regiments for breast cancer caught early enough are extremely good.

148 Sionainn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:01:50pm

MikeySDCA has a page up that is worth the time to read. Bookmark it and come back to it when you have time if you can't read it now.

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:01:53pm

re: #145 Shvaughn

This one here.

Thx.

150 engineer cat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:02:22pm

aphthous

mitt romney is aphthous

151 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:02:51pm

Here's a short chronology for former Komen lobbyist Jennifer M Luray.

2004-2009 Abbott Laboratories
Senior Director Govt Affairs & Policy

Abbott Laboratories (NYSE: ABT) is an American-based global, diversified (multi-division) pharmaceuticals and health care products company. It has 90,000 employees and operates in over 130 countries. The company headquarters are in Abbott Park, North Chicago, Illinois. The company was founded by Chicago physician, Dr. Wallace Calvin Abbott in 1888. In 2010, Abbott had over $35 billion in revenue.

2009-2010 Susan G Komen For The Cure
Vice President of Government Affairs

Susan G. Komen for the Cure, formerly known as The Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, often referred to as simply Komen, is the most widely known, largest and best-funded breast cancer organization in the United States.

2010- Becton, Dickinson & Co
No title.

Becton, Dickinson and Company (BD) (NYSE: BDX), is an American medical technology company that manufactures and sells medical devices, instrument systems and reagents. Founded in 1897 and headquartered in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, BD does business in nearly 50 countries and has 28,803 employees worldwide. In fiscal year ending September 30, 2009, 60% of BD sales were generated from non-U.S. markets.

This is partial and illustrates what's known as the revolving door.

152 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:03:12pm

re: #142 marjoriemoon

I never said they didn't do good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and sorry, I will not give drug companies the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these things. Yes they can effectively diagnose and treat breast cancer now thanks to the new machines, the new ways to do surgery etc. What I am saying is there seems to be a lot of evidence that SGK is using this as a cash cow and is unduly influenced by the makers of the equipment and drugs used to treat breast cancer vs. curing it.

153 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:05:09pm

re: #152 Dreggas

I never said they didn't do good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and sorry, I will not give drug companies the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these things. Yes they can effectively diagnose and treat breast cancer now thanks to the new machines, the new ways to do surgery etc. What I am saying is there seems to be a lot of evidence that SGK is using this as a cash cow and is unduly influenced by the makers of the equipment and drugs used to treat breast cancer vs. curing it.

Look, I'm not exactly a huge fan of drug companies or many of their ways of doing business, but the simple fact is that they still do come out with drugs that help. Without pharmaceuticals, I'd likely have ended up as, at best, a barely functional wreck and, quite potentially, dead by now. I can't really discard that fact.

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:06:24pm

re: #151 Gus 802

BTW, Gus, thanks for doing the heavy lifting on Komen in these days. You should prolly do a summary page some time ;)

155 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:07:24pm

re: #151 Gus 802

You are going to page all this, aren't you?

Having these lobbyist ties all in one spot would be a good thing to have, and you seem to be very adept at finding it all.

156 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:07:33pm

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

BTW, Gus, thanks for doing the heavy lifting on Komen in these days. You should prolly do a summary page some time ;)

Yeah, thank you very much for all your research. I...really need to start doing more of that myself in order to give back to everyone here.

157 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:07:38pm

The big lesson here is Don't Fuck With Planned Parenthood. It's really, really good and touching to see that if you do, my side IS willing to fight for what's right.

158 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:08:49pm

re: #155 makeitstop

You are going to page all this, aren't you?

Having these lobbyist ties all in one spot would be a good thing to have, and you seem to be very adept at finding it all.

Maybe Killgore could do the summary, since I'm told he's big on research and all his opinions are painstakingly investigated!

159 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:09:07pm

re: #153 Simply Sarah

I have to take meds for the exact same situation (without them I'm a wreck). That doesn't mean I have to like it. Let's say you're a drug company that makes pill X that treats condition Y. You make a hefty profit and could use that money that ultimately makes it so in one shot you can cure/eliminate condition Y. Instead you use that money to lobby congress, bribe generic companies to keep them from selling the generic form of pill X sooner and some of it to tweak pill X slightly in order to have a new version when the generic does come out. That's what we have at the moment in most cases.

160 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:09:08pm

re: #157 Shvaughn

The big lesson here is Don't Fuck With Planned Parenthood. It's really, really good and touching to see that if you do, my side IS willing to fight for what's right.

At least this time we did. Just can't rest on it, because, as we're all aware, we're constantly under attack.

161 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:09:18pm

re: #157 Shvaughn

The big lesson here is Don't Fuck With Planned Parenthood. It's really, really good and touching to see that if you do, my side IS willing to fight for what's right.

Agreed. The amount of support was overwhelming in all senses.
Socons lost this round big way.

162 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:09:38pm

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

BTW, Gus, thanks for doing the heavy lifting on Komen in these days. You should prolly do a summary page some time ;)

Thanks. Just don't ask me to describe tomography. ;)

163 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:10:24pm

re: #155 makeitstop

You are going to page all this, aren't you?

Having these lobbyist ties all in one spot would be a good thing to have, and you seem to be very adept at finding it all.

OK. Maybe later or over the weekend. Would have to think of some kind of outline first.

164 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:10:34pm

re: #157 Shvaughn

The bigger lesson should be that when we stand up for something we far outnumber the right wing nuts who start crap like this and that lesson needs to be learned by the media as well.

165 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:10:46pm

I'm sure this story will be abuzz for the next several weeks.

166 Lidane  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:13:04pm

re: #130 nines09

SG Komen has had a busy few days. Pissed off the left. Pissed off the right. Pissed off solicitors and marketers. Pissed off brand names. Pissed off women. Pissed off Senators. Pissed ON Planned Parenthood. And put a big piss stain on a Pink Ribbon that will always be there. Nice work.

Yep. It takes skill to completely destroy a brand the way SGK has. Most companies try to avoid that sort of thing.

167 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:14:14pm

re: #120 marjoriemoon

It reeks to me of "doctors don't really cure anything. They keep you sick just to make more money." I don't know what to say to anyone who thinks that other than, it's bullshit.

This is the mindset that clicks on "Dermatologists Hate Her! Local Mom's Wrinkle Trick!" There must be a lot of people like that because these ads are so ubiquitous.

168 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:14:58pm

re: #163 Gus 802

OK. Maybe later or over the weekend. Would have to think of some kind of outline first.

Good luck, and thanks.

Komen seems to be a vortex of lobbyists, ideologues and grifters. It's gonna take a lot to sort it all out.

169 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:15:39pm

re: #159 Dreggas

BUt say you're a rival pharma company. If you develop the cure, you gain a huge competitive advantage.

Seriously, most medical conditions can't be 'cured' through pharmaceuticals, and it's bizarre to demand that they be cured. That's not what pharma is, for the most part.

170 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:16:14pm

re: #129 Obdicut

It is true that pharma companies do not aim to cure things. They aim to make money off of medication. So, if they have a good treatment for something, they're unlikely to also research a cure for it. That's true. But another pharma company has every incentive in the world to research a cure for something they don't have a treatment for, especially if the opposition has a treatment for it.

The biggest problem is that pharma companies aim at things like Viagra, which is not anywhere near a critical medication. It's a perfectly good medication, but the reason they researched it is because they knew they could make a hell of a lot of money off of it.

The actual cures for a lot of things are surgical, which really isn't everyone's cup of tea.

How many actual "cures" have been discovered recently? Vaccines are a prevention, not a cure. Antibiotics used to be touted as a "cure" for bacterial infections, but now there is MRSA which is antibiotic resistant.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:17:05pm

re: #167 Alouette

This is the mindset that clicks on "Dermatologists Hate Her! Local Mom's Wrinkle Trick!" There must be a lot of people like that because these ads are so ubiquitous.

"Putin hates her! Local Mom's Honest Elections Trick!"

"God hates her! Local Mom's Free Paradise Trick!"

"She hates herself! Local Mom's Self-loathing Trick!"

172 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:17:20pm

I think the other lesson is that we need single payer healthcare. Having charities like this brings in lobbying interests. Of course single payer wouldn't exactly stop the influence of lobbying. However, there is a certain level of secrecy that is allowed with charities which would not be allowed with a single payer system which would have to be fully transparent.

Another thought is with massive charities we're looking at what could be called a monopoly. Having all this money in one location, Komen, severely limits the ability of where that money goes. Because in the end since they are private entities they're legally entitled to grant that money to whomever they choose without public input. They would of course would be subject to public opposition. They become monopolies almost verging to the point of violating something akin to anti-trust laws.

Right now groups like Komen is like putting too many eggs in one basket.

173 A Mom Anon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:17:31pm

Reading the Wikipedia page for SGK it seems that the CEO,Nancy Brinker is Susan Komen's sister. I had no idea. Not that it effects the issue,but Brinker started the charity after her sister died in 1982. Since then they've raised 2 billion dollars worldwide.

174 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:18:44pm

re: #132 Dreggas

Doctor's treat illnesses, diagnose them and there are many who do a lot of hard work to help a patient get better. However there are many more that do make more money by pushing certain drugs as treatments for a given condition. The pharma companies on the other hand have more to gain by simply pushing new treatments vs. finding any sort of cure.

I see the pharma companies are pitching their product directly to the patient (consumer) in TV commercials and magazine ads. It used to be that you only saw these ads in medical journals, now you see them everywhere.

I especially love the part when they rattle off the side effects at double speed. blablabla SUDDEN DEATH blablablabla CANCER blablablabla HEART ATTACK blablablabla DO NOT TAKE IF PREGNANT

175 A Mom Anon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:20:04pm

re: #172 Gus 802

That's a good way to describe this issue,like a corporate monopoly. My big question is,can there be a way around all that? A way that can be effective and maybe even more efficient?

176 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:20:22pm

re: #170 Alouette

How many actual "cures" have been discovered recently? Vaccines are a prevention, not a cure. Antibiotics used to be touted as a "cure" for bacterial infections, but now there is MRSA which is antibiotic resistant.

Actual cures are very difficult to find, because it's just a pill, it's not a nanomachine. The best that pharma can do is give your own body time and advantage.

Part of this problem is the media. They keep saying "New cure for X discovered!" and what they mean is a medication that will allow most people's immune systems to beat X.

177 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:20:35pm

Santorum To Gay Man: You Don’t Deserve ‘Privilege’ Of Marriage Because Gay Unions Don’t ‘Benefit Society’

SANTORUM: You’re not entitled “to special treatment under the law…[Marriage is] not a right, it’s something that has existed since the beginning of human history as an institution where men and women come together for the purposes of forming a natural relationship as God made it to be. And for the purposes of having children and continuing that civilization. It is an intrinsic good…And as a result of that, we extend a privilege. We extend certain privileges to people who do that because we want to encourage that behavior. [...]

Two people who may like each other or may love each other who are same-sex, is that a special relationship? Yes it is, but it is not the same relationship that benefits society like a marriage between a man and a woman.

What benefit is that exactly?

178 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:20:35pm

re: #169 Obdicut

BUt say you're a rival pharma company. If you develop the cure, you gain a huge competitive advantage.

Seriously, most medical conditions can't be 'cured' through pharmaceuticals, and it's bizarre to demand that they be cured. That's not what pharma is, for the most part.

Things generally can't be "cured," simply managed to a degree that the disease seems gone or at least livable. We've progressed a great deal in the last century towards making some diseases virtually non-existent, but we've not "cured" them. Between development of new tests for earlier detection, medication/surgery that slows progression, and therapy to control it once its become a chronic condition, diseases and conditions that used to kill now are things that people can lead longer, if not productive lives, once diagnosed with.

179 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:20:59pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum To Gay Man: You Don’t Deserve ‘Privilege’ Of Marriage Because Gay Unions Don’t ‘Benefit Society’

What benefit is that exactly?

The benefit of not making him feel icky.

180 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:21:16pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum To Gay Man: You Don’t Deserve ‘Privilege’ Of Marriage Because Gay Unions Don’t ‘Benefit Society’

What benefit is that exactly?

Wake me when he illegalizes marriage between straight people who can't (or decide they don't want to) have kids.

181 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:22:12pm

re: #178 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A lot of the time, the medication allows the body to cure itself. That's what antibiotics, antifungals, tamiflu, etc. does.

183 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:23:30pm

re: #175 A Mom Anon

That's a good way to describe this issue,like a corporate monopoly. My big question is,can there be a way around all that? A way that can be effective and maybe even more efficient?

Can't think of anything other than perhaps people should diversify their contributions to a wider range of groups. This would be difficult with corporations though since they enjoy a great deal of publicity and profits from contributing to large organizations like Komen which effectively have wide spread "brand recognition."

184 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:23:41pm

re: #181 Obdicut

A lot of the time, the medication allows the body to cure itself. That's what antibiotics, antifungals, tamiflu, etc. does.

And chocolate ,,, don't forget chocolate!
//(half)

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:23:58pm

re: #180 jamesfirecat

Wake me when he illegalizes marriage between straight people who can't (or decide they don't want to) have kids.

Obviously they should be forcefully divorced. Like, duh.

/

186 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:24:08pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum To Gay Man: You Don’t Deserve ‘Privilege’ Of Marriage Because Gay Unions Don’t ‘Benefit Society’

What benefit is that exactly?

That line of "logic" breaks down rather quickly. What "benefit" does society gain when the couple 50+ years old? Or when one member is infertile? Or when both have decided to wait years, if not decades, in order to be financially secure before starting a family?

If the supposed "benefit" is that children are raised, then there's thousands of kids in the foster system who would benefit from a loving family, gay or straight.

187 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:25:54pm

re: #180 jamesfirecat

Wake me when he illegalizes marriage between straight people who can't (or decide they don't want to) have kids.

Thats why God sends rapists.

188 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:26:01pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

"She hates herself! Local Mom's Self-loathing Trick!"

You win. Period.

189 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:26:20pm

re: #167 Alouette

This is the mindset that clicks on "Dermatologists Hate Her! Local Mom's Wrinkle Trick!" There must be a lot of people like that because these ads are so ubiquitous.

And from my experience, also people who focus almost exclusively on holistic medicine with usually poor (and deadly) results. I'm actually a proponent of both, holistic and medical science working together.

190 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:26:31pm

re: #169 Obdicut

BUt say you're a rival pharma company. If you develop the cure, you gain a huge competitive advantage.

but if there's a "cure" then there'd be no need for other drugs made by x company or y company to treat these issues and treatments can go on a lot longer and in the end cost more. Sure there'd be a short term advantage to having found the way to effectively cure something but it would be short term.

191 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:26:54pm

re: #181 Obdicut

A lot of the time, the medication allows the body to cure itself. That's what antibiotics, antifungals, tamiflu, etc. does.

And even then, as noted on many commercials and by many doctors, "results may vary." Despite what the plethora of medical shows may tell folks, treatment of many diseases comes down to a matter of time and playing the odds.

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:27:18pm

re: #186 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That line of "logic" breaks down rather quickly. What "benefit" does society gain when the couple 50+ years old? Or when one member is infertile? Or when both have decided to wait years, if not decades, in order to be financially secure before starting a family?

If the supposed "benefit" is that children are raised, then there's thousands of kids in the foster system who would benefit from a loving family, gay or straight.

You're very, very clever, young man. But you forgot one thing.

It's mortal sins all the way down.

Youtube Video
193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:32:41pm

re: #129 Obdicut

The biggest problem is that pharma companies aim at things like Viagra, which is not anywhere near a critical medication. It's a perfectly good medication, but the reason they researched it is because they knew they could make a hell of a lot of money off of it.

Not that that isn't true, but they researched it as a medication to help the heart heal faster after surgery/heart attacks. The "boner pill" part was a happy little accident.

194 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:33:19pm

re: #190 Dreggas

but if there's a "cure" then there'd be no need for other drugs made by x company or y company to treat these issues and treatments can go on a lot longer and in the end cost more. .

Exactly. So, company Z, which is in competition with those companies, has a huge incentive to discover a cure, right?

Sure there'd be a short term advantage to having found the way to effectively cure something but it would be short term

No, it'd be a permanent advantage for the company that developed the cure-- or patent-permanent, anyway.

Again: Almost no medication 'cures' anything. There is no grand conspiracy to specifically avoid full cures. The truth is that full cures for anything are extremely, extremely difficult to find.

New antibiotics, antifungals, and other medications that, after you take them, you are cured of the disease, are invented all the time by pharma companies.

I have no love for pharma companies, but "They don't really cure anything!" is not a medically sound line of attack.

195 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:33:25pm

re: #141 Sergey Romanov

Which of many?

re: #145 Shvaughn

This one here.

Yeah, what she said.

I guess I can get back to work now.

196 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:33:28pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

The "boner pill" part was a happy little accident.

It just popped up outta nowhere!!

197 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:34:06pm

re: #189 marjoriemoon

And from my experience, also people who focus almost exclusively on holistic medicine with usually poor (and deadly) results. I'm actually a proponent of both, holistic and medical science working together.

A relative recently passed away because of over-reliance on "vitamins" and a distrust of M.D.'s.

198 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:34:17pm

Well, I have successfully stared a coworker into silence and retreat, so I've got that going for me today.

199 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:34:29pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

Not that that isn't true, but they researched it as a medication to help the heart heal faster after surgery/heart attacks. The "boner pill" part was a happy little accident.

True true. But they still spent the time and money on researching its effectiveness as a happy boner pill because it'd make them money.

200 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:34:44pm

re: #190 Dreggas

but if there's a "cure" then there'd be no need for other drugs made by x company or y company to treat these issues and treatments can go on a lot longer and in the end cost more. Sure there'd be a short term advantage to having found the way to effectively cure something but it would be short term.

Not to mention that getting it to market will be a bitch and a half. As we've seen in recent years, the FDA is just as easy to lobby as any other portion of our government. If one company puts forth a "miracle cure" that the others are months to years behind in researching, then you can be sure that they will lobby like mad to hamper the approval process every step of the way, all in the name of "public safety."

201 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:35:30pm

re: #200 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Agreed.

202 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:35:47pm

re: #196 sattv4u2

The "boner pill" part was a happy little accident.

It just popped up outta nowhere!!

It was a lot of hard work.

203 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:36:01pm

re: #176 Obdicut

Actual cures are very difficult to find, because it's just a pill, it's not a nanomachine. The best that pharma can do is give your own body time and advantage.

Part of this problem is the media. They keep saying "New cure for X discovered!" and what they mean is a medication that will allow most people's immune systems to beat X.

Doctors hate her! Local mom's trick to cure cancer!

204 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:36:10pm

re: #199 Obdicut

True true. But they still spent the time and money on researching its effectiveness as a happy boner pill because it'd make them money.

Of course that is true, I wouldn't deny that. I can't blame them either, the competition is stiff out there.

205 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:36:22pm

re: #158 Shvaughn

Maybe Killgore could do the summary, since I'm told he's big on research and all his opinions are painstakingly investigated!

Stop being an ass.

206 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:36:59pm

re: #174 Alouette

I see the pharma companies are pitching their product directly to the patient (consumer) in TV commercials and magazine ads. It used to be that you only saw these ads in medical journals, now you see them everywhere.

I especially love the part when they rattle off the side effects at double speed. blablabla SUDDEN DEATH blablablabla CANCER blablablabla HEART ATTACK blablablabla DO NOT TAKE IF PREGNANT

Mutating toe fungus
Anal leakage
Thoughts of suicide
Thoughts of manslaughter
Peace on Earth (hey that's a good side effect)
Bleeding fingernails
Nocturnal emissions (another good side effect?)

The list goes on and on ...

207 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:37:39pm

Gingrich to Speak at NAR-Affiliated Church Tonight

208 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:38:06pm

re: #205 b_sharp

Stop being an ass.

Where were you earlier this week when KT needed your helpful wisdom?

209 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:38:33pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum To Gay Man: You Don’t Deserve ‘Privilege’ Of Marriage Because Gay Unions Don’t ‘Benefit Society’

What benefit is that exactly?

I produces empty receptacles that can be filled with filthy Santorum.

210 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:39:20pm

re: #206 RayFerd

Mutating toe fungus
Anal leakage
Thoughts of suicide
Thoughts of manslaughter
Peace on Earth (hey that's a good side effect)
Bleeding fingernails
Nocturnal emissions (another good side effect?)

The list goes on and on ...

It's not the long list of side-effects that bother me so much as the constant barrage of commercials that almost always start with "Do you feel this list of everyday, ordinary 'symptoms'? Well, you may have a life-threatening illness, which means you should ask your doctor for our medication."

211 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:39:24pm

re: #184 sattv4u2

And chocolate ,,, don't forget chocolate!
//(half)

Dude, it's a drug. You need to go to rehab.

212 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:39:37pm

re: #196 sattv4u2

The "boner pill" part was a happy little accident.

It just popped up outta nowhere!!

She: "Who do you expect to please with that little thing?"

Me: Me.

213 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:39:46pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

Not that that isn't true, but they researched it as a medication to help the heart heal faster after surgery/heart attacks. The "boner pill" part was a happy little accident.

Yep! I'm not really talking about Viagra or Cosmetic BOTOX. BOTOX was originally used to deaden the nerves during spinal surgery, btw. I'm talking about either life-saving, life-prolonging or quality of life meds or medical devices.

It makes me cranky to read all this conjecture without a scrap of evidence to back it up. It's just what people think, based on nothing.

I worked with an M.D. J.D. for 12 years who specialized in reimbursement counseling and outcomes research. We worked with pharma and medical device companies, hospitals, docs, and researchers who were doing amazing work. Cystic fibrosis, spasticities, one product was a liquid bandage, too many to name. I can't tell you how many people are saved because of these things. Here is one group of many: [Link: www.rarediseases.org...]

214 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:39:59pm

re: #79 Charles

I have to say - I've been watching in horror for years as the religious right gained more and more influence in US politics. It's one of the big reasons for my split with the GOP and the right.

The fanatics have been steadily working behind the scenes for decades to increase their reach and power. This Komen controversy will turn out to be a good thing if it starts waking people up to the very real threat the fundamentalists pose to human rights in America.

This.

I could not have said it any better.

215 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:41:24pm

re: #211 b_sharp

Dude, it's a drug. You need to go to rehab.

Is there a local chapter of Chocaholics Anonymous that I've been missing?

//

216 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:41:31pm

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, I have successfully stared a coworker into silence and retreat, so I've got that going for me today.

Little kids and dogs don't count.

(During a stare-down I usually go cross-eyed)

217 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:43:26pm

re: #208 Shvaughn

Where were you earlier this week when KT needed your helpful wisdom?

Debating with Kilgore like an adult,, not making snarky come backs

218 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:43:28pm

Oh, this will be fun.

Tea Party Jesus

Click each picture to find out who really said it.

219 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:43:31pm

Newt plays the Soros card against Romney

221 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:43:36pm

re: #197 Alouette

A relative recently passed away because of over-reliance on "vitamins" and a distrust of M.D.'s.

Yes, happened to a neighbor. He spent $1000s going to Europe for some treatments for non-Hodgkin lymphoma which is 100% curable. I love these folks who say we haven't cured any diseases recently. Well, here is one. The man died needlessly.

222 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:44:44pm

re: #209 b_sharp

I produces empty receptacles that can be filled with filthy Santorum.

Yet more filthy santorum to be cleaned up off the floor...

WOODLAND PARK, Colo. – GOP contender Rick Santorum had a heated exchange with a mother and her sick young son Wednesday, arguing that drug companies were entitled to charge whatever the market demanded for life-saving therapies.

Santorum, himself the father of a child with a rare genetic disorder, compared buying drugs to buying an iPad, and said demand would determine the cost of medical therapies.

“People have no problem paying $900 for an iPad,” Santorum said, “but paying $900 for a drug they have a problem with — it keeps you alive. Why? Because you’ve been conditioned to think health care is something you can get without having to pay for it.”

Because letting your kid get bitch slapped by the invisible hand of the free market is the American thing to do, dontchaknow.

223 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:44:49pm

re: #190 Dreggas

re: #194 Obdicut

Unless you create a vaccine to prevent all future occurrences, you're still going to have the disease. People are still going to get cancers (unlike say the HPV vaccine, that will all but eliminate a specific kind of cancer).

224 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:46:27pm

re: #208 Shvaughn

Where were you earlier this week when KT needed your helpful wisdom?

You're still being an ass.

If you want to point out KT's screw ups and biases, fine do so, but leave the bullshit condescension somewhere else.

I poke KT for his biases all the time, including his obsessions. The few times I've used a condescending tone have embarrassed the hell out of me. I've come to the conclusion it's a sign of ignorance and immaturity.

225 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:46:30pm

re: #216 b_sharp

Little kids and dogs don't count.

(During a stare-down I usually go cross-eyed)

46 year old former Navy Chief, to everyone in the office

"So this weekend, I'm blah blah blah..."

chair swivels, Kragar locks onto target

"And then I'm.. What? I'm going to... What are you staring at?"

Continue barrage.

"I've got some... I'm going to do some work."

Continue barrage

"Look, I'm sitting down, will you stop looking at me? STOP IT!"

Continue to make sure he's not going to get back up and start talking again, cease bombardment.

Victory.

226 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:47:24pm

re: #222 celticdragon

Yet more filthy santorum to be cleaned up off the floor...

Because letting your kid get bitch slapped by the invisible hand of the free market is the American thing to do, dontchaknow.

People don't have to buy a new iPad every 30 days to stay alive.

227 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:48:52pm

re: #224 b_sharp

I'm all for ignorance and immaturity, as long as it's done in a responsibly and supported by factual arguments.

228 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:48:59pm

re: #222 celticdragon

Yet more filthy santorum to be cleaned up off the floor...

Because letting your kid get bitch slapped by the invisible hand of the free market is the American thing to do, dontchaknow.

Good thing I wasn't in the crowd, because I'd have shot back at him, asking if he ever stopped to consider that the medical bills his daughter's condition has racked up in her lifetime would bankrupt most Americans. If he wishes to be a rich prick, fine, but don't think that means he understands what it's like to be an average American.

Plus, the most expensive iPad I've seen runs no higher than $600, so I don't know where he's getting the $900 figure from. Maybe he's been buying his off the black market.

229 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:49:03pm

re: #226 darthstar

People don't have to buy a new iPad every 30 days to stay alive.

Well, not yet, but if we pass the right laws...

230 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:49:11pm

re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Is there a local chapter of Chocaholics Anonymous that I've been missing?

//

There is, and the sign-up fee requires you send all your chocolate to the treasurer for humane disposal.

I'll give you my address when you sign up.

231 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:49:22pm

re: #222 celticdragon

I heard that yesterday on the ed show etc. Santorum should be glad that mother didn't slap the taste out of his mouth.

232 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:50:44pm

re: #227 darthstar

I'm all for ignorance and immaturity, as long as it's done in a responsibly and supported by factual arguments.

No, those just detract from the humor value of U MAD BRAH?

233 jaunte  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:51:43pm

I love clients who have emergency work they need designed within hours and produced by end of day, who stop answering their phones.

234 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:52:48pm

re: #225 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

46 year old former Navy Chief, to everyone in the office

"So this weekend, I'm blah blah blah..."

chair swivels, Kragar locks onto target

"And then I'm.. What? I'm going to... What are you staring at?"

Continue barrage.

"I've got some... I'm going to do some work."

Continue barrage

"Look, I'm sitting down, will you stop looking at me? STOP IT!"

Continue to make sure he's not going to get back up and start talking again, cease bombardment.

Victory.

I always lose. As a kid I hated being looked at.

235 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:53:44pm

re: #226 darthstar

People don't have to buy a new iPad every 30 days to stay alive.

A number of people pointed that out in the comments.

Oh, Rick. When someone spends $900 for an Ipad, it’s something they’ll have for a few years. However, medication needs to keep being replenished every 30 days. So if your medication costs $900, that’s $900 every month which comes out to be $10,800/year. Which, for most Americans, is almost half their yearly income.

What did Senator Frothy say about that?

“He’s alive today because drug companies provide care,” Santorum said. “And if they didn’t think they could make money providing that drug, that drug wouldn’t be here. I sympathize with these compassionate cases. … I want your son to stay alive on much-needed drugs. Fact is, we need companies to have incentives to make drugs. If they don’t have incentives, they won’t make those drugs. We either believe in markets or we don’t.

I sympathize kid...but we got money ta make and you are gonna give us the money or choke. Which will it be, kid?

236 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:54:46pm

re: #233 jaunte

I love clients who have emergency work they need designed within hours and produced by end of day, who stop answering their phones.

Like the manager who assigns a poorly worded task assignment and says "call me if you have any questions", and then doesn't answers his phone or emails?

237 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:54:46pm

re: #227 darthstar

I'm all for ignorance and immaturity, as long as it's done in a responsibly and supported by factual arguments.

OK, I'll give you that factual arguments are more important than tone. I personally would like to see facts presented at an adolescent level minimum.

238 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:55:06pm

I needs me some boobie.

There...I feel better now.

239 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:55:21pm

re: #235 celticdragon

Frothy is makin my point.

240 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:55:26pm

re: #236 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like the manager who assigns a poorly worded task assignment and says "call me if you have any questions", and then doesn't answers his phone or emails?

My wife's human anatomy teacher...

241 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:55:41pm

re: #234 b_sharp

I always lose. As a kid I hated being looked at.

I think it was the silence that got to him.

242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:55:51pm

re: #238 darthstar

Awww....

243 iossarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:56:05pm

Party on people. The weekend starts right here.

Adolescent humor to the max.

SAYONARAAAAAA!

244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:56:40pm

re: #235 celticdragon

Let them buy aspirin.

245 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:56:43pm

re: #238 darthstar

I needs me some boobie.

There...I feel better now.

You're not going to eat that whole thing by yourself are you?

246 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:57:05pm

re: #238 darthstar

I needs me some boobie.

There...I feel better now.

here's a nice pair of tits for ya

247 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:58:13pm

re: #246 Dreggas

here's a nice pair of tits for ya

That's what I like, just enough for a handful.

248 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 1:58:31pm

re: #246 Dreggas

here's a nice pair of tits for ya

Nice rack

249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:00:00pm

Y'all see what JCP did today? Told a million moms to go fuck themselves.

That was awesome.

250 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:00:29pm

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh?

251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:00:55pm

re: #250 Obdicut

Huh?

I'll find it. Truly awesome.

252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:01:23pm

re: #250 Obdicut

Huh?

[Link: entertainment.msnbc.msn.com...]

253 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:01:40pm

1. Smacked a commentor? Check!
2. Made a bad joke? Check!
3. Embarrassed a fellow lizard? Check!
4. Picked my nose where no one ca see? Check!
5. Picked up the wife from work?

Oh crap, I'm late again.

254 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:01:51pm

Keep it simple, just give your money to charities that aren't tainted

255 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:02:10pm

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, you mean One Million Moms.

256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:02:52pm

re: #255 Obdicut

Oh, you mean One Million Moms.

That's what I said. A million moms.

heh

257 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:03:39pm

re: #222 celticdragon

Yet more filthy santorum to be cleaned up off the floor...

Because letting your kid get bitch slapped by the invisible hand of the free market is the American thing to do, dontchaknow.

The mother said the boy was on the drug Abilify, used to treat schizophrenia, and that, on paper, its costs would exceed $1 million each year.

The manufacturers of this drug advertise on TV, with this creepy commercial:

Youtube Video
258 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:03:44pm

re: #248 Rightwingconspirator

Nice rack

Check out these hooters.

259 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:04:03pm

re: #233 jaunte

I love clients who have emergency work they need designed within hours and produced by end of day, who stop answering their phones.

Send Kragr to perch on their desk and stare at them.

260 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:04:14pm

re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I see what you did there, well played sir! Well played.

261 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:05:19pm

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Y'all see what JCP did today? Told a million moms to go fuck themselves.

That was awesome.

A million AFA moms who think Ellen Degeneres shouldn't be JC Pennys spokesperson because she's an evil lesbian.

262 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:05:29pm

Friday afternoon boobies...

Image: blue-footed-booby-sula-nebouxii-16659.jpg

263 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:05:44pm

re: #258 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Check out these hooters.

those gave me a stiff pecker

264 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:05:54pm

re: #258 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Check out these hooters.

Nice ass.

265 Kragar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:05:59pm

re: #259 oaktree

Send Kragr to perch on their desk and stare at them.

Office chair works best, you can roll along and keep Line of Sight more efficiently. Turning so you're directly facing them at all times is also key.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:06:07pm

Is it unkind for me to say that now JCP will have to increase the size of their flannel shirt department?

267 jaunte  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:06:21pm

re: #261 allegro

A million moms being dicks.
[Link: onemillionmoms.com...]

268 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:06:28pm

re: #262 celticdragon

hey there's a baby booby in there! better take it down fast!

269 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:06:44pm

re: #261 allegro

A million AFA moms who think Ellen Degeneres shouldn't be JC Pennys spokesperson because she's an evil lesbian.

JCP doesn't care. Those mom's make all of their children's clothes anyway.

270 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:06:56pm

re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #260 Dreggas

Is it a play on the fact that there aren't a million moms there?

271 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:07:22pm

re: #268 Dreggas

hey there's a baby booby in there! better take it down fast!

Its a chick... ;)

272 engineer cat  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:07:27pm

"So this weekend, I'm blah blah blah..."

that's funny - that's exactly what i was gonna do!

273 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:07:33pm

re: #265 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Office chair works best, you can roll along and keep Line of Sight more efficiently. Turning so you're directly facing them at all times is also key.

Jaunte art of the "Laser Eyed GAZE Lizard" for the next cookbook! STAT.

:)

274 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:07:35pm

re: #267 jaunte

A million moms being dicks.
[Link: onemillionmoms.com...]

Are they the ones screaming in those horrible JC Penney commercials?

275 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:07:38pm

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[Link: entertainment.msnbc.msn.com...]

I'm totally not into blondes, and you know, I'm totally not gay, but if I was, I would be totally into Portia on both counts.

276 allegro  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:07:56pm

re: #267 jaunte

A million moms being dicks.
[Link: onemillionmoms.com...]

More likely a couple of old white preachers with too much time on their hands.

277 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:08:54pm

re: #224 b_sharp

You're still being an ass.

If you want to point out KT's screw ups and biases, fine do so, but leave the bullshit condescension somewhere else.

I poke KT for his biases all the time, including his obsessions. The few times I've used a condescending tone have embarrassed the hell out of me. I've come to the conclusion it's a sign of ignorance and immaturity.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who came into this whole debate with a series of condescending comments tut-tutting at those overreacting PP supporters for picking on poor Komen -- while in the same breath admitting that I didn't know anything about the topic.

But, in the spirit of "If you want to point out KT's screw ups and biases, fine do so," here's some Greatest Hits from KT in that other thread:

"I haven't been following the story so I don't know enough to form an opinion. I suspect the outrage is at least partially overblown."

"Yeah, After reading up a bit on the situation I can see what's going on. A lot of organizations, including the federal government, have rules against doing business with people under investigation. It just makes good sense."

"I don't think the rule is some sort of secret conspiracy to defund PP. Maybe they're just trying to make the best use of their money and be responsible with it. I kind of doubt this cancer charity has secretly become an evil wingnut conspiracy."

"Pardon me but I get a little bit cautious about demonizing a cancer charity. Especially since they're supposedly rabid wingnuts despite their very generous funding of Planned Parenthood over the years."

"It would be a shame if these charges [against Komen] were untrue. This could really damage an organization that's raised a lot of money to provide cancer screening services for poor women."

[In response to Jeffrey Goldberg's article] "True, but people do lie for various reasons. So far all we have in anonymous sources. No internal leaked memos or smoking gun that the new rules were internded to target PP. Inter office politicals, political activits, grudges, vendettas, etc."

"It might be the same reason other groups including the federal government have the same rule. It helps to avoid fraud, scandals, embezzlement, theft, misappropriation of funds etc." [Conveniently ignoring that the federal government hasn't suspended funds to PP.]


...back to me now. I'm glad he's apparently learned something from this whole experience about how a cancer charity could, in fact, be run by a bunch of right-wingers. Maybe next time he'll apply some of his vaunted research skills and skeptical thinking to something other than deciding the dirty hippies must always be wrong.

Maybe next time he'll give PP the benefit of the doubt, and he'll actually read the linked articles first.

PS, to Big Steve: Do you really want to stand by your claim that "Like what [KT] says or don't but the argument that he jumps to conclusions is actually laughable." Cuz dude, he didn't do his due diligence here.

278 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:09:08pm

re: #275 marjoriemoon

I'm totally not into blondes, and you know, I'm totally not gay, but if I was, I would be totally into Portia on both counts.

She needs a sammich something awful, though.

279 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:10:14pm

re: #278 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She needs a sammich something awful, though.

True, dat.

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:10:26pm

re: #270 Sergey Romanov

re: #260 Dreggas

Is it a play on the fact that there aren't a million moms there?

More like, 30 Helens.

281 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:10:33pm

BBL. Hurt and need to lay down.

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:10:51pm

What are these moms doing to each other?

Image: moms411.png

283 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:10:55pm

re: #278 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She needs a sammich something awful, though.

She's soooo pretty. I'm also smitten by the lovely gal on Modern Family (as is my husband). Ok, now that's a little creepy.

284 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:12:48pm

re: #36 Simply Sarah

Bingo. They've already moved the goalposts, even though they're saying PP can actually try kicking now.

I've discovered through personal experience that those on 'the right' are very good at moving goalposts. The best way to win is to make the rules.

Unethical jerkwads.

285 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:12:51pm

re: #283 marjoriemoon

She's sooo pretty. I'm also smitten by the lovely gal on Modern Family (as is my husband). Ok, now that's a little creepy.

Which one. Mrs. Dumphy? Tres Smokin'.

But, Sofia... Ay yi yi yi!

286 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:13:03pm

re: #258 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Check out these hooters.

Oh dear...what have I done?

I fear this thread is going to the dogs.

287 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:13:21pm

re: #222 celticdragon

Yet more filthy santorum to be cleaned up off the floor...

Because letting your kid get bitch slapped by the invisible hand of the free market is the American thing to do, dontchaknow.

This is just beyond disingenuous.

People have no problem paying $900 for an iPad,” Santorum said, “but paying $900 for a drug they have a problem with — it keeps you alive.

Rick, you ignorant slut.

If you pay $900 for an iPad, you own it.

Those drugs might cost $900 a month.

Does he really not see the difference here?

288 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:14:13pm

Why would a photographer regret Egrets?

289 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:15:42pm

re: #285 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Which one. Mrs. Dumphy? Tres Smokin'.

But, Sofia... Ay yi yi yi!

Yes! AND she's a riot. Love the funny. Did you see her at the Golden Globes? Other than looking amazing, she was hilarious.

290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:16:32pm

re: #289 marjoriemoon

Didn't know she was on them... or I could answer 'YES!'!

291 jaunte  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:16:57pm

re: #288 Rightwingconspirator

Fake! That egret on the far right never shares in real life.

292 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:17:17pm

re: #288 Rightwingconspirator

Why would a photographer regret Egrets?

The egret with the frog was a good pic. The other egret squawking was a good pic. Trying to create a merged picture was stupid.

293 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:18:38pm

I freakin' love the smell of green beans in the pressure cooker. The beans, I mean, not me. I'm not smelling them in the pressure cooker. Just the beans are in the pressure cooker. The odor is wafting into the living room where I sit on the couch.

294 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:19:44pm

Some good stuff here:

[Link: www.somethingawful.com...]

Image: I_Might_Be_Adam_02.jpg

295 Gus  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:21:19pm

re: #294 Obdicut

Some good stuff here:

[Link: www.somethingawful.com...]

Image: I_Might_Be_Adam_02.jpg

Heads or tails!?

296 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:21:23pm

From the 'match made in Heaven' department...

Adam Lambert Is Queen's New Singer

Glambert will rock the crap outta that gig.

297 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:21:51pm

re: #294 Obdicut

The scene where Chigurh is in the gas station with the old man is the most uncomfortable thing I've seen in a movie in 15 years.

I had to walk out of the room.

298 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:22:23pm

re: #295 Gus 802

Heads or tails!?

Epic movie, might have to watch it again.

299 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:22:52pm

re: #294 Obdicut

re: #296 makeitstop

From the 'match made in Heaven' department...

Adam Lambert Is Queen's New Singer

Glambert will rock the crap outta that gig.

Circle of life, dude. The circle of life.

300 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:23:25pm

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[Link: entertainment.msnbc.msn.com...]

One Million Moms, a project of the American Family Association, earlier said that "DeGeneres is not a true representation of the type of families that shop at their store. The majority of JC Penney shoppers will be offended and choose to no longer shop there."

Yeah, my mom is totally outraged over that.
/not

301 darthstar  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:23:31pm

Okay...2pm meeting canceled...no reason to stay later on a Friday...see you all later.

302 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:23:46pm

re: #158 Shvaughn

Maybe Killgore could do the summary, since I'm told he's big on research and all his opinions are painstakingly investigated!

KT and I disagree plenty. Especially about OWS. Somehow I overlooked the necessity of sarcastic digs. Given the sheer quantity of false or overblown outrages in the news and on the 'net I can understand his mistake.

303 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:26:52pm

re: #300 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, my mom is totally outraged over that.
/not

I guess JCP will find out whether their sales figures fall significantly. And whether or not this particular item is why if they do.

304 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:29:04pm

re: #302 Rightwingconspirator

KT and I disagree plenty. Especially about OWS. Somehow I overlooked the necessity of sarcastic digs. Given the sheer quantity of false or overblown outrages in the news and on the 'net I can understand his mistake.

My sarcastic dig was primarily aimed at the person who thought it's "laughable" to suggest that KT would ever jump to incorrect conclusions.

I don't like being rebuked when I am correct.

305 Henchman Ghazi-808  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:29:33pm

Linsey Pollak: Human music box.

306 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:31:19pm

re: #303 oaktree

I doubt most normal people actually give two shits. My mom is the only person I know who shops there, and she really could not care less about the sexual orientation of any given spokesperson.

307 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:33:05pm

re: #306 Slumbering Behemoth

I doubt most normal people actually give two shits. My mom is the only person I know who shops there, and she really could not care less about the sexual orientation of any given spokesperson.

Neither do I. I shop there for a few particular items and that's that. OMM beating their chest about hurting JCP is not going to make JCP change policy. JCP getting lower sales, and surveying indicating that a good chunk of the drop is due to this issue might.

308 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:38:54pm

re: #304 Shvaughn

I have no factual argument with you. If you meant no dig at KT with this "Maybe Killgore could do the summary, since I'm told he's big on research and all his opinions are painstakingly investigated!"
I'd withdraw my objection.

309 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:40:14pm

Hey, RWC! Got another new toy the other day - a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt. 4 5/8" barrel & blue like a revolver should be. I'm not into the cowboy shooting, but I've been wanting a single action for the woods.

Of course the worst thing about it is that Gander Mountain does layaway and on the shelf in front of me as I'm making the last payment on the Blackhawk is a mid 1920's Stevens 315 (marked "Ranger" for Sears & Roebuck.) side by side. 12 gauge, 30" barrels. Beautiful color case hardened receiver. It's on layaway... ;)

Glad I quit smoking a few years ago - even with these guns & their ammo, I've still probably spent less and had more fun as a result.

310 Political Atheist  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:45:39pm

re: #309 wlewisiii

That gun is likely to be a tack driver.
Or, as I used to call my .357 S&W my "long range drill press".

311 Sionainn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 2:46:35pm

re: #267 jaunte

A million moms being dicks.
[Link: onemillionmoms.com...]

* UPDATE: In a previous campaign we emailed Disney Channel and requested that the film "Little Manhattan" no longer air on their channel or at the very least cut out the offensive scenes. It did not air for some time. During last night's episode on January 31, the curse word OMM was concerned about being in a children’s movie on a kid's network has been edited! The 10-year-old Gabe originally said, "What the hell?!" and now the word "hell" has been edited. Instead of the obnoxious beep to bleep out the foul language, which would raise questions, it was just removed.

Since when is "hell" a bad word to these religious nutjobs? They have no problem telling anyone who doesn't subscribe to their brand that that's where they are going if they don't change their ways.

312 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:07:27pm

re: #304 Shvaughn

My sarcastic dig was primarily aimed at the person who thought it's "laughable" to suggest that KT would ever jump to incorrect conclusions.

I don't like being rebuked when I am correct.

No,, your "sarcastic dig" actually starter here

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

"aimed" squarely at KT

313 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:09:58pm

re: #310 Rightwingconspirator

That gun is likely to be a tack driver.
Or, as I used to call my .357 S&W my "long range drill press".

Hope to get it to the range next week, but so it feels good in hand, so I have my hope that once I get the sights dialed in it should be good. Ruger's have always been good in my experience with them.

314 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:18:38pm

re: #312 sattv4u2

No,, your "sarcastic dig" actually starter here

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

"aimed" squarely at KT

That one was, yes. Not the one which I was asked directly about.

But I was only half sarcastic there. I truly am glad that KT apparently has brought himself up to speed on the topic, instead of shooting from the hip and being wrong.

315 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 3:31:40pm

re: #314 Shvaughn

{sigh}

316 JEA62  Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:55:35pm

From their absolutely abysmal handling of this, I tend to think not. They've displayed a remarkable lack of foresight, that they'd suddenly gain so much to be able to plan that far ahead is a pretty big reach. Even if that was what they meant, they'd just be opening another can of whoop-ass on themselves.


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