Very Poor GOP Voter Turnout in Nevada

Republicans not excited

PoliticsFebruary 2012 • Views: 36,729

The Las Vegas Sun reports that voter turnout for the Nevada caucuses was very low, despite the Republican Party’s constant fear-mongering and attacks on President Obama.

Something’s going wrong with the GOP strategy of demonization and Tea Party ultra-conservatism; I suspect the toxic atmosphere of the far right is beginning to turn off center right Republicans, and that could spell big trouble for the GOP in the general election.

Mitt Romney’s easy victory in Nevada’s Republican presidential caucuses might, in the long run, be less important than the fact that a surprising number of Republicans who could have participated Saturday chose to stay home.

Republicans’ disappointing turnout foreshadows difficulty energizing GOP voters in Nevada, a key swing state in November’s general election.

Turnout was unlikely to match 2008, when 44,000 Republicans participated in Nevada’s caucuses. Complete figures were not released by the state party as of 10 p.m. Saturday, an indication of a lackluster showing.

“It was less than what we had planned for,” Clark County caucus Director Michael Chamberlain said on KNPR.

Republican turnout in Washoe County, Nevada’s second largest, was 8 percent, well below the 20�percent some had predicted.

“We expected more. Obviously we hoped for more,” David Buell, chairman of the Washoe County Republican Party, said.

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366 comments

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:18:47am

This bodes well for the US.

rwmofo Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:20:55am

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

allegro Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:22:05am

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

This bodes well for the US.

It has been a heartening week on several fronts. The bullying, intimidation, fear-inducing bullshit, and lies appear to be losing their effectiveness and the public is pushing back.

More of this, please.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:23:03am

re: #3 allegro

Unfortunatley, we still have a racist-worshipping gasbag above you posting

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:23:40am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

Don't make me laugh. Every such newspaper has a resident wingnut. This article is by one of those, Ross Douthat.

Varek Raith Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:23:56am

re: #2 rwmofo

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:23:58am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

LOL An opinion piece from the NY Times house-wingnut and house-theocon, Ross Douthat. Damn, you really put us in our place with that one.

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:23:59am

re: #2 rwmofo

So no comment on the pathetic voter turnout in Nevada? You'd just rather deflect?

Pathetic.

allegro Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:24:26am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

Oh, please, coming from Douthat?

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:25:36am

re: #9 allegro

Oh, please, coming from Douthat?

"They got me!"

[Falls to the ground with arrow through belly.]

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:26:13am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

And yes, the media has a liberal bias. For example, racism is rarely tolerated in the media nowadays. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:26:27am

Speaking of toxic right wingers.

bratwurst Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:27:34am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

Don't make me laugh. Every such newspaper has a resident wingnut. This article is by one of those, Ross Douthat.

Cut him some slack...on his home planet, the entire media marches in lockstep against everything he holds dear.

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:27:44am

Oh yeah. Liberal bias here! Here's two Republican sources to this report:

“It was less than what we had planned for,” Clark County caucus Director Michael Chamberlain said on KNPR.

Republican turnout in Washoe County, Nevada’s second largest, was 8 percent, well below the 20 percent some had predicted.

“We expected more. Obviously we hoped for more,” David Buell, chairman of the Washoe County Republican Party, said.

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:28:01am

re: #9 allegro

Oh, please, coming from Douthat?

Ignore rwmofo. He's just trying to change the subject.

Nevada had shitty voter turnout for their caucus in a year when the GOP has been casting this election as deciding the fate of Western Civilization and democracy and saving America from Barack Obama. They couldn't even get 44,000 voters state-wide? That's bad news.

Varek Raith Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:28:15am

re: #14 Gus 802

Oh yeah. Liberal bias here! Here's two Republican sources to this report:

Liberal plants.

allegro Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:28:42am

re: #11 Sergey Romanov

And yes, the media has a liberal bias. For example, racism is rarely tolerated in the media nowadays. I don't see what's wrong with that.

I had an instant cringe at your statement that intolerance for racism has a liberal bias. To me it's simply a matter of right and wrong that has no political basis.

Then I realized that these days, you are largely correct and now I haz a sad.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:30:33am

re: #17 allegro

I had an instant cringe at your statement that intolerance for racism has a liberal bias. To me it's simply a matter of right and wrong that has no political basis.

Then I realized that these days, you are largely correct and now I haz a sad.

Let's be frank here, anti-racism is a liberal view that has won in the US and now even most social conservatives pay lip service to it. It doesn't make it any less liberal.

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:32:12am

re: #15 Lidane

Florida GOP turnout was only down 14%.

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

South Carolina saw a big increase, but that's the state that went heavily towards Gingrich. Most of the decrease in GOP turnout in Florida also came from counties where Romney won.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:33:33am

The turnout can't be much of a mystery--it should be a bit more than the 23,000 shown at the top of last thread (70% reporting). Roughly 30,000 unless the unreported precincts are all at the high end of population.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:34:20am

Abolitionism is also a liberal view that was widely adopted with time. It was social conservatives in the South who were against it.

As time passes, there will be less and less resistance to the idea of the same-sex marriage. It will become the norm, accepted by liberals and conservatives alike. But it should be never forgotten that it was a liberal view from the outset.

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:34:54am

How can you call it a "victory" if only 3% of the eligible voters vote for you?

If you're Mitt Romney, that's how...and your nearest competitors can barely get 1% of the vote.

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:35:32am

re: #20 Decatur Deb

The turnout can't be much of a mystery--it should be a bit more than the 23,000 shown at the top of last thread (70% reporting). Roughly 30,000 unless the precincts are all at the high end of population.

Out of 400,000 "active Republican voters" in Nevada.

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:35:50am

re: #23 darthstar

Out of 400,000 "active Republican voters" in Nevada.

Damn.

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:36:14am

re: #24 Gus 802

Damn.

Puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:36:49am

re: #25 darthstar

Puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Single digit turnout.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:36:58am

re: #24 Gus 802

Not even 10% turnout.

Pathetic. The Non-Competitive Democratic Caucus had far more people

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:41:29am

re: #27 ProLifeLiberal

Not even 10% turnout.

Pathetic. The Non-Competitive Democratic Caucus had far more people

Which is why the Nevada GOP is currently panicked. If voter turnout in future states stays that low, it's not a good sign for the general.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:41:38am

Fox News is estimating about 34,000, so I'll stick with my c. 30K.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:42:35am

re: #29 Decatur Deb

Fox News is estimating about 34,000.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

How odd. They seem to be going with a high estimate, for some odd reason. Very odd.

Could Fox News possibly have an agenda?

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:43:38am

re: #15 Lidane

Ignore rwmofo. He's just trying to change the subject.

Nevada had shitty voter turnout for their caucus in a year when the GOP has been casting this election as deciding the fate of Western Civilization and democracy and saving America from Barack Obama. They couldn't even get 44,000 voters state-wide? That's bad news.

The Republican voter considers going outside and casting a vote for one of the uninspiring panel, shakes his head, and goes back inside to make some cocoa. Six more weeks of winter.

Still, a solid win for Romney.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:43:50am

re: #30 Charles

I pencilled mine.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:44:08am

re: #30 Charles

It would still be a fail with that amount. That's only an 8.5% turnout.

The Mountain That Blogs Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:44:15am

re: #30 Charles

Well, it is somewhat surprising that they would go with a liberal estimate. After all, that word is the epitome of all evil.

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:46:01am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

You are right about one thing, this article proves something. It proves that they NY Times is more fair and balanced than Fox News will ever be. Go NY Times (print opinions that I don't agree with).

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:46:50am

re: #29 Decatur Deb

Fox News is estimating about 34,000, so I'll stick with my c. 30K.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Aha! ...

That distaste for the process was clearly reflected in Clark County, which descended into chaos Saturday night when several people who tried to enter Summerlin's Adelson Educational Campus were turned away. The campus is named after Sheldon Adelson, a Newt Gingrich supporter who persuaded officials to hold the caucuses in the evening so that Jewish voters could participate and not violate the Saturday Sabbath that prohibits work or activities like driving to the caucus site.

But those who arrived at the school Saturday night told Fox 5 in Las Vegas that they were prevented from voting unless they signed an affidavit proving that they were delayed by their religion.

Shoving and shouting reportedly ensued and people who refused to sign the paper tried to fight their way in, arguing they were being denied their rights to vote.

So that explains the low voter turn-out. The war on religion!

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:48:56am

Meanwhile, Venice's Canals are frozen.

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:49:31am

re: #37 ProLifeLiberal

And the Upper Midwest remains brown.

I hate this bullshit winter.

JeffFX Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:49:55am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

You're off-topic at post #2, and could have posted a page if you really had something worth talking about, rather than crapping nonsense onto the top of the thread. Don't you aspire to be something better than a right-wing thread-shitter?

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:50:25am

re: #38 erik_t

I know:

Venice, Wisconsin called: It wants its winter back.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:51:33am

re: #36 Gus 802

Aha! ...

So that explains the low voter turn-out. The war on religion!

//

And their attitude towards the press:

[Link: www.google.com...]

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:51:55am

re: #40 ProLifeLiberal

Back? It hasn't had the decency to even show up and then leave.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:52:38am

re: #42 erik_t

It was there last year though.

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:54:30am

Do we have any crosstabs on the primary population? I'd be very interested to know the Mormon fraction. A higher-than-representative proportion would presumably indicate that the overall Republican population is even less excited than the turnout would suggest.

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:57:20am

re: #44 erik_t

Do we have any crosstabs on the primary population? I'd be very interested to know the Mormon fraction. A higher-than-representative proportion would presumably indicate that the overall Republican population is even less excited than the turnout would suggest.

I'll bet most of them stayed home too. I know they probably want (R)money to represent, but I think they know he's not the best they've got and will prove to be an embarrassment. He ain't what Kennedy was for Catholics or Obama was for African-Americans.

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:58:33am

re: #36 Gus 802

Aha! ...

So that explains the low voter turn-out. The war on religion!

//

What is with GOPers and their pledges? Oh and I guess they aren't just using voter suppression against Democratic voters. Just anyone who they think might vote the "wrong" way.

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:58:38am

re: #44 erik_t

Do we have any crosstabs on the primary population? I'd be very interested to know the Mormon fraction. A higher-than-representative proportion would presumably indicate that the overall Republican population is even less excited than the turnout would suggest.

I'm trying to find the source again, but I read somewhere that about a quarter of the voters in Nevada were Mormon and over 90% of them voted for Mitt.

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:00:09am

re: #45 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'll bet most of them stayed home too. I know they probably want (R)money to represent, but I think they know he's not the best they've got and will prove to be an embarrassment. He ain't what Kennedy was for Catholics or Obama was for African-Americans.

The magnitude of the effect is certainly open to debate, but I find it hard to imagine that Mormons are less likely to support Mitt than the rest of the Republican party.

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:00:52am

re: #47 Lidane

I'm trying to find the source again, but I read somewhere that about a quarter of the voters in Nevada were Mormon and over 90% of them voted for Mitt.

I think he wants to know the number that turned out in comparison to the number that could have turned out. I think he wants to know if turn out was depressed across the board for GOP groups.

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:01:23am

re: #49 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think he wants to know the number that turned out in comparison to the number that could have turned out. I think he wants to know if turn out was depressed across the board for GOP groups.

Ah, gotcha. That would be interesting to see.

Ben G. Hazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:01:34am

re: #2 rwmofo

IMO, I'd say that honesty and accuracy in the media DOES appears to have a liberal bias these days, because the "conservative" media (such as Fox News) sure as hell ain't doing it.

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:02:24am

re: #48 erik_t

The magnitude of the effect is certainly open to debate, but I find it hard to imagine that Mormons are less likely to support Mitt than the rest of the Republican party.

Know I don't mean less likely. I mean how many of them voted that could have voted. They may be more enthusiastic about Mitt than others, but they still might be suffering from lack of enthusiasm over all. Like did Romney get as many votes from Mormons as McCain in 2008?

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:03:10am

re: #49 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think he wants to know the number that turned out in comparison to the number that could have turned out. I think he wants to know if turn out was depressed across the board for GOP groups.

Yes - if (eg) Mormon turnout were not depressed at all, it would obviously be even more depressed than we realize among the rest of the demographic groups, which more accurately represent the rest of the country.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:05:41am

re: #52 moderatelyradicalliberal

Mormons are about 11%. If the data Lidane saw was correct, they were over-represented by more than a factor of 2.

Nevada is 2% Muslim, BTW.

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:08:58am

re: #54 ProLifeLiberal

Mormons are about 11%. If the data Lidane saw was correct, they were over-represented by more than a factor of 2.

Nevada is 2% Muslim, BTW.

So Mormons were the only group that was excited about Romney or the GOP field in Nevada? Does not look good for the general election.

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:13:42am

re: #39 JeffFX

You're off-topic at post #2, and could have posted a page if you really had something worth talking about, rather than crapping nonsense onto the top of the thread. Don't you aspire to be something better than a right-wing thread-shitter?

"Right-wing thread-shitter" might just be my new favorite term.

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:15:40am

re: #54 ProLifeLiberal

Mormons are about 11%. If the data Lidane saw was correct, they were over-represented by more than a factor of 2.

Nevada is 2% Muslim, BTW.

The baseline expectation, as I recall, is like 20-25%. They're 11% of the state's population, but the vast majority are Republican.

EDIT: The Mormon fraction was 26% in 2008.

simoom Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:17:33am

Romney 2008 - 22,649 votes (51% of the total)
Romney 2012 - 11,822 votes (47.6% of the current total w/ 71.1% reporting)

2008 was an unusually low turnout year for the GOP caucuses while the Dems had an unusually high turnout w/ 116,000 votes total.

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:17:42am

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

You forgot your obligatory "media/democrat party" reference.

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:21:43am

Looks like the Mormon fraction was functionally unchanged. CBS says 25%.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:24:01am

re: #60 erik_t

Looks like the Mormon fraction was functionally unchanged. CBS says 25%.

I have an idea in my head that Mormons are perhaps more likely to be diligent voters than the average population, but that may be untrue. I'm not sure where I got it from.

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:27:46am

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

I have an idea in my head that Mormons are perhaps more likely to be diligent voters than the average population, but that may be untrue. I'm not sure where I got it from.

For a swing state like Nevada, given that one might expect about 40% of the population to be interested in voting in the Republican primary (and 40% in the Democratic one), and bearing in mind that Mormons are overwhelmingly Republican, 11%/0.4 = 27.5%. A bit less, since they're not ALL Republicans.

So these sorts of numbers are pretty much what we'd expect from a demographic like that.

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:36:14am

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist
The Amish are also diligent voters. Of course they prefer paper and pencil to vote for their candidate.

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:37:51am

re: #63 PhillyPretzel

The Amish are also diligent voters. Of course they prefer paper and pencil to vote for their candidate.

That's not actually true. Most Amish don't vote. Only about 10 to 15% do.

[Link: amishamerica.com...]

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:38:55am

re: #64 Obdicut
Okay. The information I had from a previous election has changed.

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:39:32am

Perhaps it was hard to get up enthusiasm for candidates telling them to stand on their own two feet and reject government assistance when they are under-employed and their mortgage is under water?

Amory Blaine Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:43:02am

Holy shit man if you listen to am radio and read right wing blogs there are fucking armies of people supposed to be lining up against Obama. Where are they?!?

Olsonist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:43:48am

Nothing says flag waving patriotism quite like 6.2%.

There are thrilling soccer games that end 0-0. [Uh, or so I'm told.] So I'm sure Romney is just thrilled that 12,000 people took time out of their busy Nevada Saturday.

Pathetic. The Penn and Teller Theater seats 1500. Ron Paul got 3 shows worth of votes.

Wow.

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:45:09am

re: #67 Amory Blaine

In their Mom's basement, on the computer?

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:48:07am

re: #67 Amory Blaine
I too, wonder where they are. Yesterday I went to sign some petitions to get some folks on the Primary ballot in May. My ward leader and I were the only two people in the hall for an hour. That is pathetic. :(

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:48:16am

The GOP can put a positive spin on the turnout:

"The turnout was equal to the viewership for last week's episodes of CSI and NCIS combined!"

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:48:42am

re: #71 Charleston Chew
lol

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 11:54:02am

re: #67 Amory Blaine

Holy shit man if you listen to am radio and read right wing blogs there are fucking armies of people supposed to be lining up against Obama. Where are they?!?

I, for one, would like to join the fucking-army.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:00:41pm

re: #73 erik_t

I, for one, would like to join the fucking-army.

I dunno man, I hear basic training is sticky.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:02:04pm

re: #73 erik_t

I, for one, would like to join the fucking-army.

But how long would you last there?

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:04:43pm

re: #73 erik_t

I, for one, would like to join the fucking-army.

The fucking-army really went to hell since they allowed women and gays in.

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:05:07pm

Good freaking grief. Erick Erickson goes into full-out religious fanatic mode today: The Perversion of the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ by the Sinner Barack H. Obama.

Olsonist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:09:55pm

I'm an atheist but even I know that Christ didn't write Genesis, Job or the Psalms.

Big Joe Ghazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:10:26pm

re: #77 Charles

Good freaking grief. Erick Erickson goes into full-out religious fanatic mode today: The Perversion of the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ by the Sinner Barack H. Obama.

So he's saying Jesus said, "Fuck the poor"?

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:10:34pm

re: #77 Charles

I just saw that. Once again he misses the fact that our government is not based on the New Testament.

jaunte Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:10:54pm

re: #77 Charles

The President this week chose to pervert God’s Word to make the case for a tax increase

Erickson is hell-bent on making parody impossible.

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:10:59pm

re: #71 Charleston Chew

The GOP can put a positive spin on the turnout:

"The turnout was equal to the viewership for last week's episodes of CSI and NCIS combined!"

Actually, I'm bad at reading statistics. Turns out the Nevada caucus only got 1% of that.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:12:46pm

re: #78 Olsonist

I'm an atheist but even I know that Christ didn't write Genesis, Job or the Psalms.

Christ is God. God inspired each word of the Bible. So basically, yes, Christ wrote Genesis, Job and the Psalms.

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:13:38pm

From Erickson's piece:

Unfortunately for the nation, we have a President who claims to be a Christian who is willing to take God’s Holy Word repeatedly out of context, subsume God’s commands for individuals in their conduct with each other and with Him, and try to make the case for the government’s fiscal policy with that perversion.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:13:48pm

re: #77 Charles

Good freaking grief. Erick Erickson goes into full-out religious fanatic mode today: The Perversion of the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ by the Sinner Barack H. Obama.

I have an idea--the Prez should avoid saving souls and the bishops should avoid politic'n from the altar.

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:13:54pm

re: #83 Sergey Romanov

Christ is God. God inspired each word of the Bible. So basically, yes, Christ wrote Genesis, Job and the Psalms.

I thought Tim Tebow was god? I'm SOO confussled!!

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:14:17pm

re: #77 Charles

Good freaking grief. Erick Erickson goes into full-out religious fanatic mode today: The Perversion of the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ by the Sinner Barack H. Obama.

Hilarious. I love the way the parables are taken literally by guys like this, and suggesting that they're analogies to the Kingdom of Heaven is an awful thing to say--until the parables turn against you, and you discover that they're really all allegorical.

Eejit.

Sionainn Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:14:37pm

Hunh. I just looked up Luke 12:48 and Matthew 13:12, and it appears that both Obama and Erickson have misconstrued the passages.

jaunte Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:15:27pm

Once again, Erickson fails to note that making contraception and abortion available in a health insurance plan does not mean that any Christian is forced to use them.

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:16:00pm

re: #77 Charles

Good freaking grief. Erick Erickson goes into full-out religious fanatic mode today: The Perversion of the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ by the Sinner Barack H. Obama.

Erickson quotes:

“And God blessed them. And God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.’” Gen 1:28 (ESV)

Someone who thinks this is a reason to oppose contraception fails to understand that we already did that. Done and done. We've checked that off our to-do list. So now we can use condoms and God's totally cool with that.

SpaceJesus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:16:43pm

re: #2 rwmofo

which sock is this?

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:17:10pm

re: #90 Charleston Chew

Erickson quotes:

Someone who thinks this is a reason to oppose contraception fails to understand that we already did that. Done and done. We've checked that off our to-do list. So now we can use condoms and God's totally cool with that.

Quoted for truth.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:17:19pm

re: #88 Sionainn

Hunh. I just looked up Luke 12:48 and Matthew 13:12, and it appears that both Obama and Erickson has misconstrued the passages.

Not only the Bible should not be a basis for a policy (even a good one). Clearly Jesus taught individual charity.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:17:23pm

re: #89 jaunte

Once again, Erickson fails to note that making contraception and abortion available in a health insurance plan does not mean that any Christian is forced to use them.

The USCCB says they are forced to pay for them. Must have set the Jesuits to work overtime on their last letter.

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:18:38pm

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

Rat Asshat.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:19:53pm

re: #95 Alouette

Douchehat.

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:19:57pm

Kamikaze registration.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:20:44pm

re: #94 Decatur Deb

The USCCB says they are forced to pay for them. Must have set the Jesuits to work overtime on their last letter.

I've worked for Catholic agencies, and dealt with the no-coverage-for-contraceptives thing.

I've given it some thought, and what I come back to is, it's not their money, it's my money. If my Kaiser coverage is part of my salary, I can then do what I like with it, and it is not the moral responsibility of the Church to monitor me.

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:21:11pm

I just searched Google News for "National Prayer Breakfast," and discovered that Erick's not the only one; the right is utterly losing their shit over this simple statement by Obama:

When I talk about shared responsibility, it's because I genuinely believe that in a time when many folks are struggling, at a time when we have enormous deficits, it's hard for me to ask seniors on a fixed income, or young people with student loans, or middle-class families who can barely pay the bills to shoulder the burden alone. And I think to myself, if I'm willing to give something up as somebody who's been extraordinarily blessed, and give up some of the tax breaks that I enjoy, I actually think that's going to make economic sense.

But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus's teaching that "for unto whom much is given, much shall be required." It mirrors the Islamic belief that those who've been blessed have an obligation to use those blessings to help others, or the Jewish doctrine of moderation and consideration for others.

100

engineer cat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:21:25pm

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

perhaps some people find it odd that a profession that forces a person to keep very close account of facts and the reality of people's lives might be populated by a high percentage of people who are concerned about the difficulties faced by working folks

my question is: why do some people think of compassion as 'bias'?

101

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:22:27pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

I've worked for Catholic agencies, and dealt with the no-coverage-for-contraceptives thing.

I've given it some thought, and what I come back to is, it's not their money, it's my money. If my Kaiser coverage is part of my salary, I can then do what I like with it, and it is not the moral responsibility of the Church to monitor me.

It's an enormous strain to draw the moral taint of a potential insurance user back to the unhappy insurance group sponsor. I love typing 'moral taint'.

102

jaunte Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:23:28pm

"for unto whom much is given, much shall be required."

Erickson: [Obama] is trying to use God’s Word to defend a tax policy that dissuades individuals from giving gladly and charitably to the poor as God instructs

103

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:23:42pm

re: #90 Charleston Chew

Someone who thinks this is a reason to oppose contraception fails to understand that we already did that. Done and done. We've checked that off our to-do list. So now we can use condoms and God's totally cool with that.

Also, when Genesis was written there was maybe only 100 million people on Earth.

104

Sionainn Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:24:15pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

I've worked for Catholic agencies, and dealt with the no-coverage-for-contraceptives thing.

I've given it some thought, and what I come back to is, it's not their money, it's my money. If my Kaiser coverage is part of my salary, I can then do what I like with it, and it is not the moral responsibility of the Church to monitor me.

Excellent point.

105

Olsonist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:27:11pm

re: #103 Charleston Chew

Also, when Genesis was written there was maybe only 100 million people on Earth.

And even fewer condoms.

106

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:27:25pm

re: #99 Charles

I just searched Google News for "National Prayer Breakfast," and discovered that Erick's not the only one; the right is utterly losing their shit over this simple statement by Obama:

Mirrors an Islamic belief?!

CREEPING SHARIA!!!!1

107

Ben G. Hazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:27:38pm

“We expected more. Obviously we hoped for more,” David Buell, chairman of the Washoe County Republican Party, said.

I can't think about Reno or Washoe County without thinking about Reno 911.

Just sayin' ;-P

108

engineer cat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:27:45pm

i see no indication in wiksterpedia that erik erikson, at 37, has been fruitfully multiplying

more of a divider i guess

109

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:28:19pm

re: #100 engineer dog

my question is: why do some people think of compassion as 'bias'?

Jonathan Haidt was on Bill Moyers recently discussing this-he also did a TED talk on the subject. I found it very thought provoking.

His website Moral Foundations Theory is a good place to start.

110

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:28:36pm

re: #101 Decatur Deb

It's an enormous strain to draw the moral taint of a potential insurance user back to the unhappy insurance group sponsor. I love typing 'moral taint'.

I can use the money they pay me to buy condoms, or donate to PP, or to politicians who support the death penalty (just to swing around my usual crab about how the seamless garment of Christ isn't always so seamless in modern politics)

I fail to see how the Church is keeping its hands clean by making me pay more of that money they pay me for the contraceptives that are prescribed for me by a doctor whose salary they pay by giving me coverage. At this point we've already created a little social contract that I'm on the Pill, and they don't care. Pretending like saving me thirty bucks a month is going to undermine their moral status is kind of goofy.

It seems like a silly distinction to draw, and one that's more self-indulgent than anything else.

111

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:28:43pm

re: #108 engineer dog

i see no indication in wiksterpedia that erik erikson, at 37, has been fruitfully multiplying

more of a divider i guess

Like all infallible popes, he is bound to celibacy.

112

BishopX Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:29:37pm

re: #103 Charleston Chew

That's a high estimate.

113

prairiefire Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:31:05pm

re: #107 talon_262

I can't think about Reno or Washoe County without thinking about Reno 911.

Just sayin' ;-P

That guy can rock a pair of police uniform shorts.

114

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:31:35pm

27And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.
28And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

29And Jesus did rebuke the blind men, saying, depart from me, for thy conditions are pre-existing.

Eriksonians 9:27-29

115

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:34:35pm

re: #99 Charles

Fundies do pretend to cherish each Biblical word, so it's kinda expected they would be all agog about this citation (which is indeed out of context). On the whole - nontroversy.

116

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:34:57pm

re: #114 negativ

Eriksonians 9:27-29

Might expect that the loudest group calling for universal care for the sick would be the devoted Christians, and not a bunch of godless Muslim-hugging liberal agnostics.

117

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:36:28pm

Obama should have quoted the next verse:

I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

118

Stanghazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:36:39pm

It's always this weird religious attack on Pres. Obama. Verry subtle/

In other news, no real plans made for the super bowl. We were going to go to the local pub for the 1st half, be home safe for the 2nd. But now the geniuses here are moving the big screen out to the patio. Outdoors in San Diego. Actually perfect. (it's 74 and sunny) I'll go buy the pile of wings.

119

Olsonist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:37:00pm

I wondered how Lance Armstrong would react to the Komen scandal. He has donated to Komen in the past and Lance donated again, a $100,000 matching grant to Planned Parenthood.

Komen lives every day on good will. At this point, I'd like to see them get Acorned. I've seen enough to conclude that Komen is just a pink ribbon on a right wing agenda. Fuck em.

120

Ben G. Hazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:37:18pm

re: #73 erik_t

I, for one, would like to join the fucking-army.

Is that like the Kiss Army, only with better benefits?

121

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:37:31pm

re: #116 Decatur Deb

Might expect that the loudest group calling for universal care for the sick would be they devoted Christians, and not a bunch of godless Muslim-hugging liberal agnostics.

Nah, it totally makes sense. We don't have $RELIGIOUSBOOK to guide us, so we're all amoral and lacking in compassion or basic human decency.

waitaminute

122

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:38:06pm

re: #115 Sergey Romanov

Fundies do pretend to cherish each Biblical word, so it's kinda expected they would be all agog about this citation (which is indeed out of context). On the whole - nontroversy.

They take stuff out of context all the bloody time. If Newt had done the exact same thing, Erikson would think it was fine.

123

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:38:10pm

re: #121 erik_t

Nah, it totally makes sense. We don't have $RELIGIOUSBOOK to guide us, so we're all amoral and lacking in compassion or basic human decency.

waitaminute

Now now now, comrade. Do not blaspheme against Das Kapital.

124

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:38:46pm

For some the Bible begins and ends with the verse: If a man will not work, he shall not eat.

125

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:39:07pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

They take stuff out of context all the bloody time. If Newt had done the exact same thing, Erikson would think it was fine.

If Newt had done the exact same thing, I expect a rebuke in a mild and gentle tone, but still a rebuke.

126

dragonfire1981 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:40:31pm

re: #99 Charles

I just searched Google News for "National Prayer Breakfast," and discovered that Erick's not the only one; the right is utterly losing their shit over this simple statement by Obama:

You mean there are OTHER religions besides Christianity? Whould've thunk it?

It's funny,The bible seems to side with Obama on this matter:

Luke 11:40

"You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you"

James 2

" My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?"

Proverbs 14:31

"Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."

127

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:40:41pm

re: #124 calochortus

For some the Bible begins and ends with the verse: If a man will not work, he shall not eat.

It's one of the Moral Code of the Builder of Communism's rules too. What a coincidence! /

128

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:41:28pm

re: #123 Sergey Romanov

Now now now, comrade. Do not blaspheme against Das Kapital.

Found a very good use for Das Kapital. When I sent Daughter 1 off to college I glued a last-ditch emergency 100 dollar bill into the endpapers of a copy. Knew no one was going to disturb it on her shelf.

129

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:42:50pm

re: #124 calochortus

For some the Bible begins and ends with the verse: If a man will not work, he shall not eat.

As, if a man will not find work, he will kill.

130

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:43:35pm

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

It's one of the Moral Code of the Builder of Communism's rules too. What a coincidence! /

What a coincidence!
Naturally, context is utterly irrelevant in either case./

131

calochortus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:45:59pm

I s'pose I'd better go do some work. It won't be directly related to eating, but it is a glorious day outside and there is actual yard work to be done.

132

CuriousLurker Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:46:15pm

OT (sort of) Drive-by Comment:

This Etsy page showing a religious Easter gift was sent to me by a friend early this morning. I kept checking the URL thinking maybe it was some kind of spoof, y'know, because of Poe's Law and all that. Nope, it's for real.

133

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:46:33pm

DF, I don't know why you ding. rwmofo's comment was a logical fallacy, presenting the alleged left-wing bias of NYT as evidence of the veracity of one of its articles that supposedly goes against such bias.

"Look, even left-wing NYT agrees, so it must be true."

The problem being that NYT is not a monolith, so if it has left-wing bias, it still doesn't mean that the output of its right-wing writers about left-wing bias in the media proves more than such pieces would prove in any other media, right-wing or not.

134

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:46:40pm

Britain is going to be more pissed at Syria:

michaeldweiss
Assad releases the 7/7 bombing mastermind (nice reminder of who the real terrorists are in the revolution):

135

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:46:47pm

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

re: #7 Gus 802

Downdings for the mislabeling of Ross Douthat. He is a conservative, but neither a wingnut nor a theocrat.

You two normally do better than that. When rwmofo provokes you go after him, but don't mislabel the writer of the article he quotes in so doing. It makes you look dishonest and promotes the idea that a conservative cannot expect a fair shake from liberals.

136

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:47:43pm

re: #132 CuriousLurker

OT (sort of) Drive-by Comment:

This Etsy page showing a religious Easter gift was sent to me by a friend early this morning. I kept checking the URL thinking maybe it was some kind of spoof, y'know, because of Poe's Law and all that. Nope, it's for real.

Why not? The main Christian symbol is a device for a cruel execution.

137

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:47:47pm

re: #132 CuriousLurker

OT (sort of) Drive-by Comment:

This Etsy page showing a religious Easter gift was sent to me by a friend early this morning. I kept checking the URL thinking maybe it was some kind of spoof, y'know, because of Poe's Law and all that. Nope, it's for real.

A nail short.

138

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:47:53pm

re: #125 Sergey Romanov

If Newt had done the exact same thing, I expect a rebuke in a mild and gentle tone, but still a rebuke.

I don't.

139

ProGunLiberal Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:48:28pm

I found this funny and sad at the same time:

richardengelnbc Richard Engel
ran into an american in tel aviv, he said, 'you're here? a bad sign'. I guess I'm not welcome anywhere. Koreans had similar reax a year ago

140

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:48:47pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

Upding for an explanation.

I disagree, however. I think Douthat is a wingnut.

141

CuriousLurker Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:49:37pm

re: #136 Sergey Romanov

Why not? The main Christian symbol is a device for a cruel execution.

Yeah, but the nails struck me as an especially gruesome touch. Ugh.

142

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:49:44pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

Upding for an explanation.

I disagree, however. I think Douthat is a wingnut.

Based on what? I've read his film criticism for years in National Review and I've seen nothing wingnutty.

143

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:50:29pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

Upding for an explanation.

I disagree, however. I think Douthat is a wingnut.

Oh oh. Time to categorize the diagnostic criteria. I offer easy Birferism.

144

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:50:38pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't.

Why? If Newt had done that same thing, it would still go against rw politics (increasing taxes) and it would still be based on an out-of-context citation. I would expect much consternation and "he's as bad as Obama" hand-wringing in the comments, and a milder but still stern rebuke from rw bloggers.

145

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:50:48pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Based on what? I've read his film criticism for years in National Review and I've seen nothing wingnutty.

If you're looking for political sense or lack thereof, film criticism might be the wrong place to try and find it.

146

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:51:09pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

Upding for an explanation.

I disagree, however. I think Douthat is a wingnut.

He is. He misreads the stats and concludes that most Americans are against abortion. If this was the case, how came anti abortion laws usually don't pass and never in any of the large states? Even people that are against abortion don't want to make it illegal.

147

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:51:10pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Oh oh. Time to categorize the diagnostic criteria. I offer easy Birferism.

Socon=wingnut.

148

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:52:26pm

re: #136 Sergey Romanov

Why not? The main Christian symbol is a device for a cruel execution.

The intent of those nails is to remind the recipient of the suffering Jesus endured to redeem us all of our sins.

149

Stanghazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:52:37pm

re: #141 CuriousLurker

Yeah, but the nails struck me as an especially gruesome touch. Ugh.

My Catholic (not practicing) friend when taking her young son and others to one of the missions in CA. He said very loudly, "MOM! who is that guy all stabbed up on that cross??"

150

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:52:53pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Based on what? I've read his film criticism for years in National Review and I've seen nothing wingnutty.

This article, questioning civil liberties based on popular opinion, is a sufficient example.

151

Stanghazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:54:00pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

The intent of those nails is to remind the recipient of the suffering Jesus endured to redeem us all of our sins.

Oh yeah.

152

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:54:57pm

re: #141 CuriousLurker

Yeah, but the nails struck me as an especially gruesome touch. Ugh.

That's not a nail, mate. This is a nail:

[Link: www.poweredbyosteons.org...]

153

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:55:44pm

re: #147 Sergey Romanov

Socon=wingnut.

No, that is a bridge too far. Social conservatism is not nutty, IMO. Sometimes it can be wrong, but being against abortion or oversexualized media products does not make you crazy.

154

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:55:59pm

re: #147 Sergey Romanov

Socon=wingnut.

Too many of them. They approach statistical 'normal'. We, however...

155

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:56:52pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

No, that is a bridge too far. Social conservatism is not nutty, IMO. Sometimes it can be wrong, but being against abortion or oversexualized media products does not make you crazy.

Being against abortion privately does not make you crazy. Trying to take away women's reproductive rights does. That's what socons are trying to do.

156

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:57:52pm

re: #150 Sergey Romanov

This article, questioning civil liberties based on popular opinion, is a sufficient example.

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

157

CuriousLurker Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:58:00pm

re: #152 Decatur Deb

That's not a nail, mate. This is a nail:

[Link: www.poweredbyosteons.org...]

E gad. Yeah, I was thinking those little bitty nails totally wouldn't work, but I guess they're just supposed to be symbolic. Still... *grimace*

158

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:59:17pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

Except that a woman's autonomy and her right to choose what to do with her body and what medical procedures she chooses to have ARE critical civil liberties.

159

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:59:20pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

Then don't have one.

160

wrenchwench Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:59:43pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

You are wrong. Abortion is a critical civil liberty.

161

Sionainn Sun, Feb 5, 2012 12:59:51pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

Upding for an explanation.

I disagree, however. I think Douthat is a wingnut.

I think Douthat is a wingnut, too.

From this piece:

Likewise, in a country where the majority of Down syndrome fetuses are aborted, the mere act of carrying a child with a genetic disorder to term — as both the Palins and the Santorums, whose daughter Bella has Trisomy 18, have done — feels like a political statement.

Only in the mind of a wingnut would choosing to not abort a child with a genetic disorder be considered a "political statement." I can guarantee you that when I had the choice to have an amniocentesis with both of my pregnancies, I chose not to since I knew I wouldn't abort these incredibly wanted pregnancies even if my children had Down syndrome. Politics never once entered my mind.

162

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:00:21pm

re: #132 CuriousLurker

OT (sort of) Drive-by Comment:

This Etsy page showing a religious Easter gift was sent to me by a friend early this morning. I kept checking the URL thinking maybe it was some kind of spoof, y'know, because of Poe's Law and all that. Nope, it's for real.

It's Regretsy.

They once found a wedding card on Etsy made out of a page from an old copy of "The Diary of Anne Frank". Stenciled on this page where an air-raid is being described were the words "And they lived happily ever after".

That wasn't a spoof either.

Etsy has some amazing craftspeople selling there, and also some of the weirdest people who have ever lived.

163

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:00:29pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

Well, then we disagree.
It is a matter of opinion, of course, so it doesn't make you "wrong". I will just note that opinions also vary on the matters of racial discrimination, slavery, contraception, school prayer, etc., etc.

164

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:02:50pm

In his NY Times article, Douthat blatantly misrepresents this Gallup poll that he links to: [Link: www.gallup.com...]

Douthat says:

IN the most recent Gallup poll on abortion, as many Americans described themselves as pro-life as called themselves pro-choice. A combined 58 percent of Americans stated that abortion should either be “illegal in all circumstances” or “legal in only a few circumstances.”

I have no idea where he got this number -- it's not in the Gallup poll. Here are their actual results:

Image: ZZ79AA3CE1.jpg

What the graph really shows is that 77% of Americans think abortion should either be legal in all circumstances, or legal under certain circumstances. If you combine legal/some and illegal/all, the number is 71%, not 58%.

And Gallup's question does NOT say "illegal in only a few circumstances." That's Douthat's spin. The actual wording is, "legal only under certain circumstances."

This is a horrible article full of BS.

165

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:03:47pm

Image: funny-pictures-domination.jpg

166

CuriousLurker Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:04:19pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

It's Regretsy.

Heh, I haven't visited Regretsy in forever. It's a great site.

They once found a wedding card on Etsy made out of a page from an old copy of "The Diary of Anne Frank". Stenciled on this page where an air-raid is being described were the words "And they lived happily ever after".

That wasn't a spoof either.

Etsy has some amazing craftspeople selling there, and also some of the weirdest people who have ever lived.

A wedding card? WTF? O_o

167

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:04:32pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

Why? If Newt had done that same thing, it would still go against rw politics (increasing taxes) and it would still be based on an out-of-context citation. I would expect much consternation and "he's as bad as Obama" hand-wringing in the comments, and a milder but still stern rebuke from rw bloggers.

Clarify--if Newt had taken the text out of context in the service of something Newt would say, I would expect them to say nothing. Or praise.

168

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:04:43pm

re: #164 Charles

Not intended to be a factual statement.

169

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:05:31pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

Clarify--if Newt had taken the text out of context in the service of something Newt would say, I would expect them to say nothing. Or praise.

OK, that may be the case.

170

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:07:15pm

Oooh, an Owsraptor:

Image: epic-win-photos-found-win.jpg

171

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:07:16pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

The intent of those nails is to remind the recipient of the suffering Jesus endured to redeem us all of our sins.

While I recognize the symbolism, I suspect that the actual intent of those particular nails is to get the 'artist' twenty-four bucks for putting two rusted nails in a jar.

Give me a nice crucifix any day.

172

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:07:55pm

Time to make a needy dog very happy. BBL

173

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:08:12pm

re: #164 Charles

(If certain circumstances) Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only in a few circumstances?
2011 Jul 15-17
Legal only in a few circumstances 38%
Illegal in all circumstances 20%

174

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:08:52pm

re: #161 Sionainn

I think Douthat is a wingnut, too.

From this piece:

Only in the mind of a wingnut would choosing to not abort a child with a genetic disorder be considered a "political statement." I can guarantee you that when I had the choice to have an amniocentesis with both of my pregnancies, I chose not to since I knew I wouldn't abort these incredibly wanted pregnancies even if my children had Down syndrome. Politics never once entered my mind.

I'd like to like to make the point that what Douthat said was to carry such a child to term "feels like a political statement" to some people. And there was some ill-advised criticism of Sarah Palin for talking proudly of her decision to bring Tripp to term. In fact, the most downding comment in LGF history was in that vein. That poster, Annefrance, did indeed make the claim that Sarah Palin was sending the wrong message be giving birth to a Downs Syndrome baby. So while I understand what you are trying to say, Sionainn, Douthat was reacting to things that had actually been said about Sarah Palin.

175

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:08:57pm

re: #149 Stanley Sea

My Catholic (not practicing) friend when taking her young son and others to one of the missions in CA. He said very loudly, "MOM! who is that guy all stabbed up on that cross??"

My friend's little girl is, for some reason, afraid of crucifixes. (No vampire jokes please.) They're pagan, so it's not a huge problem normally, but a while ago she had to go into the hospital for some minor surgery, and it was a Catholic hospital.

Her grandmother tried to remind her that that 'the man on the sticks' is the Earth Mother's son, but it didn't help much. The people at the hospital were very kind, and when asked, took down the crucifix in her room.

176

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:09:42pm

re: #2 rwmofo

His enormous biases are well known. Please try a different attempt at trolling.
Thank you.

177

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:10:45pm

re: #166 CuriousLurker

Heh, I haven't visited Regretsy in forever. It's a great site.

A wedding card? WTF? O_o

I love Regretsy.

The dust-up in December when PayPal tried to stop April from raising money for toys for Christmas was pretty astonishing.

178

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:11:22pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

(If certain circumstances) Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only in a few circumstances?
2011 Jul 15-17
Legal only in a few circumstances 38%
Illegal in all circumstances 20%

Ah, there's where he got it. But it's still a misrepresentation, because this is a further breakdown of people who answered "certain circumstances" to begin with, not an overall percentage.

179

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:12:15pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

While I recognize the symbolism, I suspect that the actual intent of those particular nails is to get the 'artist' twenty-four bucks for putting two rusted nails in a jar.

Give me a nice crucifix any day.

Ditto. I'd suppose it was intended to be marketed to those who already had a crucifx but needed a reminder, or as a "What do you give as a religious gift to the Christian who already has the all the Box Sets?"

/Box Sets being gamer humor (I was at Games Plus earlier today).

180

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:12:45pm

re: #178 Charles

Ah, there's where he got it. But it's still a misrepresentation, because this is a further breakdown of people who answered "certain circumstances" to begin with, not an overall percentage.

I think it's an overall percentage.

181

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:13:41pm

re: #178 Charles

Ah, there's where he got it. But it's still a misrepresentation, because this is a further breakdown of people who answered "certain circumstances" to begin with, not an overall percentage.

It includes all the initial columns, and breaks down the middle column into two. 13+38=51%

182

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:13:47pm

re: #121 erik_t

Nah, it totally makes sense. We don't have $RELIGIOUSBOOK to guide us, so we're all amoral and lacking in compassion or basic human decency.

waitaminute

As I've said before, the GOP doesn't follow the teachings of Jesus anyway. Their moral code seems more like the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. Erickson can preach Christianity to me just as soon as he gives up all of his belongings to the poor.

Mark 10:17,21-25

17 ...there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

183

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:14:50pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

My friend's little girl is, for some reason, afraid of crucifixes.

I could see some kids being afraid of them. Crucifixes typically have a bleeding man with a crown of thorns and nails graphically driven into his hands and feet, and in many churches, they're huge and painted to look realistic. That's a traumatizing image for some kids. You're seeing a bloody dead body every Sunday.

I understand the symbolism behind it since I grew up Catholic, but yeah. I could see some people fear them.

184

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:15:40pm

Interestingly, there's even a slight mistake in that 2nd table, since it changes "no opinion" to 4% (from the correct 3%), thus making the sum to be 101%.

185

Sionainn Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:16:05pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

I'd like to like to make the point that what Douthat said was to carry such a child to term "feels like a political statement" to some people. And there was some ill-advised criticism of Sarah Palin for talking proudly of her decision to bring Tripp to term. In fact, the most downding comment in LGF history was in that vein. That poster, Annefrance, did indeed make the claim that Sarah Palin was sending the wrong message be giving birth to a Downs Syndrome baby. So while I understand what you are trying to say, Sionainn, Douthat was reacting to things that had actually been said about Sarah Palin.

I wasn't around here when Palin became the VP choice, so I missed that. In my circles and sites I frequented, the specific criticism about Palin had nothing to do with her choosing to carry a child with Down syndrome, and everything to do with the fact that she had a choice.

186

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:16:10pm

re: #132 CuriousLurker

OT (sort of) Drive-by Comment:

This Etsy page showing a religious Easter gift was sent to me by a friend early this morning. I kept checking the URL thinking maybe it was some kind of spoof, y'know, because of Poe's Law and all that. Nope, it's for real.

As others already mentioned, there is a way to understand them though it rather misses the point IMO and all that. A nice set of Anglican prayer beads with a crucifix at the end would let a person achieve the same spiritual goal, I'd think.

187

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:18:13pm

re: #184 Sergey Romanov

Interestingly, there's even a slight mistake in that 2nd table, since it changes "no opinion" to 4% (from the correct 3%), thus making the sum to be 101%.

(Their whole last column is f'd up in this way.)

188

prairiefire Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:18:57pm

re: #183 Lidane

I could see some kids being afraid of them. Crucifixes typically have a bleeding man with a crown of thorns and nails graphically driven into his hands and feet, and in many churches, they're huge and painted to look realistic. That's a traumatizing image for some kids. You're seeing a bloody dead body every Sunday.

I understand the symbolism behind it since I grew up Catholic, but yeah. I could see some people fear them.

I can't remember which friend it was, there were lots of Catholic families in 1960's Chicago suburbia. Someone had a 3D card type picture on the wall of the Crucifixion where Christ's eyes followed you. Spooky and gory.

189

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:19:37pm

re: #181 Sergey Romanov

I think you're right - it's not clear from their labeling.

But again, the truth is that Douthat's 58% number is a misleading way to look at that data. You could also say that 77% of Americans believe abortion should be legal, even if only in a few circumstances.

190

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:21:01pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

(If certain circumstances) Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only in a few circumstances?
2011 Jul 15-17
Legal only in a few circumstances 38%
Illegal in all circumstances 20%

Since when do pro-lifers fit into the category of "legal only in a few circumstances?"

"Uh, I think Roe vs. Wade should be reversed but abortion should still be legal in a few circumstances."

191

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:22:02pm

re: #189 Charles

True.
I would say that the Gallup question adds to this vagueness. What is "few"? For many, this "few" would include life circumstances, such as being poor. For others it would only include "honest rape". So asking such a question is not illuminating.

192

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:22:25pm

re: #185 Sionainn

I wasn't around here when Palin became the VP choice, so I missed that. In my circles and sites I frequented, the specific criticism about Palin had nothing to do with her choosing to carry a child with Down syndrome, and everything to do with the fact that she had a choice.

Fair enough. Most on the left felt that way, too. But, as always, the media attention focused on the people who'd put out the anti-Tripp Palin DERPs. This was not due to any bias, though, but rather due to media corporations' need for profits. Big nasty DERPs sell more newspapers, magazines and advertising than civil disagreement.

193

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:24:00pm

BTW, I do think the MSM did a lousy job of reporting the scandal. Not from bias but the usual plain old laziness. They were mostly reporting on the outrage to generate traffic and capitalize off the scandal. Very little fact checking aside from the partisans selectively fueling their cause. It's a shame because it was a serious issue. Personally I didn't feel comfortable fueling the controversy. I'm not sure they're an evil wingnut/Koch bros/cancer causing/theocratic conspiracy. Maybe they were just trying to do the right thing. I think many of the smears against them were unfair.

194

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:24:12pm

re: #189 Charles

It's a really stupid poll. I'm extremely pro-choice, but I don't think abortion should be legal in all circumstances. I think for most pro-choice people, the idea of abortion in the 9th month for no compelling medical reason is pretty damn dubious. Or the decision to abort made by someone who was determined to be temporarily insane. Etc.

So what column does that put me in?

195

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:25:01pm

re: #194 Obdicut

"Legal
under most
circum-
stances"

196

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:25:04pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure they're an evil wingnut/Koch bros/cancer causing/theocratic conspiracy.

Who has said they are?

You never answered the question, by the way, about whether you think the Senior Vice President of Policy at Komen has any influence on policy at Komen.

Do you think she does?

197

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:25:43pm

re: #196 Obdicut

You never answered the question, by the way, about whether you think the Senior Vice President of Policy at Komen has any influence on policy at Komen.

Do you think she does?

I don't know.

198

Varek Raith Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:25:55pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

I don't know.

Lol.

199

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:26:13pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

I don't know.

Please don't insult our intelligence.

200

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:26:56pm

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough. Most on the left felt that way, too. But, as always, the media attention focused on the people who'd put out the anti-Tripp Palin DERPs. This was not due to any bias, though, but rather due to media corporations' need for profits. Big nasty DERPs sell more newspapers, magazines and advertising than civil disagreement.

Trig, Sarah's youngest is Trig. Bristol's boy is Tripp.

Why do I know these people's names? Damn People Magazine.

This may be my own left-wing bias, but I don't recall criticism of Palin's carrying Trig from any prominent types. What I do recall is some fussing over whether she could carry out the role of VP with several school-age kids, and a lot of accusations that liberals didn't like Sarah because she'd defied us by having a Down Syndrome child.

Then there's Sullivan, whose weirdness around Palin is epic--but he doesn't appear to believe Trig is her child at all.

201

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:26:59pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

I don't know.

Heh. Okay, dude. As always, playing dumb has the side effect of actually looking dumb.

202

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:27:01pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

They were trying to cut off specifically PP. Which means for political reasons. That's an established fact. Now, you might think this is a right thing to do. I just don't share this def of right.

203

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:27:44pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

BTW, I do think the MSM did a lousy job of reporting the scandal. Not from bias but the usual plain old laziness. They were mostly reporting on the outrage to generate traffic and capitalize off the scandal. Very little fact checking aside from the partisans selectively fueling their cause. It's a shame because it was a serious issue. Personally I didn't feel comfortable fueling the controversy. I'm not sure they're an evil wingnut/Koch bros/cancer causing/theocratic conspiracy. Maybe they were just trying to do the right thing. I think many of the smears against them were unfair.

Yeah. The right wing is trying to destroy Planned Parenthood. I mean, why overreact right?

204

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:29:48pm

re: #2 rwmofo

Here's an excellent article from the NY Times on left-wing media bias. That's right. The NY Times. I think I just saw a flock of pigs do a fly-by.

If you're looking for bad logic and an inability to see the point that is the article to read.

205

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:29:57pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

I don't know.

WTF. You're seriously going to suggest that the Senior VP of Policy has no effect on Susan G. Komen's policies?

Pathetic. If we were talking about Occupy you'd be shouting from the rooftops that anyone who is in charge of policy has an effect on policy. Your hypocrisy is nauseating.

206

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:30:37pm

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

They were trying to cut off specifically PP. Which means for political reasons. That's an established fact. Now, you might think this is a right thing to do. I just don't share this def of right.

But, but, the right wing trying to destroy Planned Parenthood isn't really an "evil wingnut/Koch bros/cancer causing/theocratic conspiracy".

That's it right there isn't it? Or better worded this way...

...evil wingnut/Koch bros/cancer causing/theocratic conspiracy! Ain't that right boys! Hahahaha! Got you this time moonbats!

207

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:30:48pm

Those who try to defend PP are the next bad guys.

208

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:31:33pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

I think many of the smears against them were unfair.

What "smears" were those?

209

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:31:50pm

re: #207 Sergey Romanov

Those who try to defend PP are the next bad guys.

You bet they are! Just look at how they overreacted!

210

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:32:11pm

Because I'm perfectly willing and capable of defending everything I posted about the controversy as being purely factual.

211

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:32:27pm

re: #209 Gus 802

You bet they are! Just look at how they overreacted!

//

Hysterical radical left moonbats. Like Bloomberg.

212

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:32:43pm

re: #208 Charles

What "smears" were those?

The ones that pointed out that Komen has a long history of lobbying against breast cancer research and funding for cancer treatment, and which brought up their financial hypocrisy.

You know-- the "smears" that exposed the truth behind the pink ribbons.

213

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:33:19pm

re: #208 Charles

What "smears" were those?

I was just expressing my personal opinion based on some of the stories that were circulating. I'm not really interested in debating it, just stating that I have reservations.

214

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:33:24pm

re: #211 Sergey Romanov

Hysterical radical left moonbats. Like Bloomberg.

Or the other famous raging hippie-moonbat Lance Armstrong!

215

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:33:55pm

re: #210 Charles

Because I'm perfectly willing and capable of defending everything I posted about the controversy as being purely factual.

That wasn't a personal accusation.

216

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:34:20pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Or the other famous raging hippie-moonbat Lance Armstrong!

//

Smelly hippies.

217

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:34:44pm

re: #212 Lidane

Komen's local chapters showed a great deal of autonomy during this, with some of them defying the larger organization and saying they'd continue to fund PP. So, I think we should be careful about terms like 'the pink ribbons', since I'm sure there's a lot of people doing good inside the Komen organization. The leadership and policy direction of Komen seems to be all kinds of fucked up, but there may be local chapters that are good on every level.

218

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:34:50pm

re: #213 Killgore Trout

I was just expressing my personal opinion based on some of the stories that were circulating. I'm not really interested in debating it, just stating that I have reservations.

...

No doubt that pretty soon the anti-Komen factions will be organizing Gaza flotillas.

219

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:35:02pm

re: #213 Killgore Trout

I was just expressing my personal opinion based on some of the stories that were circulating. I'm not really interested in debating it, just stating that I have reservations.

The Druid doesn't want to educate himself, he just has concerns.

220

sagehen Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:35:36pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

Says the poster with no uterus.

221

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:37:56pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

The ability for a woman to decide or choose her own physical destiny isn't a critical civil liberty?

222

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:38:04pm

re: #194 Obdicut

It's a really stupid poll. I'm extremely pro-choice, but I don't think abortion should be legal in all circumstances. I think for most pro-choice people, the idea of abortion in the 9th month for no compelling medical reason is pretty damn dubious. Or the decision to abort made by someone who was determined to be temporarily insane. Etc.

So what column does that put me in?

WTF? I mean, who gets an abortion for the LULZ?

223

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:38:13pm

I will just note that the fact of the political goals was established through very specific evidence. Jeff Goldberg relied on *three* (anon) sources with direct knowledge of the decision making. Later one Komen guy (Jeff something?) stated quite openly that the intention was to cut off PP.

That's just not up for a debate.

So since a political decision to cut off the PP has been made, the outrage is justified.

224

Stanghazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:38:33pm

re: #213 Killgore Trout

I was just expressing my personal opinion based on some of the stories that were circulating. I'm not really interested in debating it, just stating that I have reservations.

But you popped in with your statement! You changed the subject?

holy shit

225

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:39:13pm

re: #223 Sergey Romanov

I will just note that the fact of the political goals was established through very specific evidence. Jeff Goldberg relied on *three* (anon) sources with direct knowledge of the decision making. Later one Komen guy (Jeff something?) stated quite openly that the intention was to cut off PP.

That's just not up for a debate.

So since a political decision to cut off the PP has been made, the outrage is justified.

The judgement stands now get out of my courtroom!

Next case please!

226

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:39:29pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

BTW, I do think the MSM did a lousy job of reporting the scandal. Not from bias but the usual plain old laziness. They were mostly reporting on the outrage to generate traffic and capitalize off the scandal. Very little fact checking aside from the partisans selectively fueling their cause. It's a shame because it was a serious issue. Personally I didn't feel comfortable fueling the controversy. I'm not sure they're an evil wingnut/Koch bros/cancer causing/theocratic conspiracy. Maybe they were just trying to do the right thing. I think many of the smears against them were unfair.

Reporting on outrage is easy and cheap, plus you can sell newspapers to both sides. If you delve deep into a scandal, your institution's reporting will incur more costs in getting the needed access. You may not find out anything useful till after the public has moved on, in which case your reporting isn't going to be worth that much.

And lastly, finding out the truth might hurt you as a corporation. Let me give an example:

Let's say you send a reporter to really find out if Oil Company X was engaged in illegal bribery during a land rights dispute. What you end up learning will be on of three things:

1 (and most likely): Your reporter can't find enough evidence to reach a conclusion one way or the other. In that case, you're out the money you used for the investigation for no real return.

2. You find out that Oil Company X is guilty. Saying that to the world will still likely get you attacked by pro-business groups and accused of "liberal bias". Also, your business reporters may find their future access restricted, since other companies may now see you as a threat. So finding out the company is guilty can have costs, though those may well be outweighed by increased viewership/circulation and prestige.

3. You find out that Oil Company X is not guilty after all. Report that, and you'll have left leaning groups accusing you of a cover-up and of conspiring with corporate interests against the public.

In contrast to all those risks, just covering the outrage is safer and cheaper.

227

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:40:25pm

re: #222 Alouette

WTF? I mean, who gets an abortion for the LULZ?

I don't want to drag out the weird, sketchy cases that are often used by the anti-choice advocates as proof of the evil of women, really. I was just more pointing out that the question is a stupid one. For example, I also think that abortions should only be done under medical supervision, which would also count as not thinking abortion should be legal in all circumstances.

228

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:41:23pm

re: #213 Killgore Trout

I was just expressing my personal opinion based on some of the stories that were circulating. I'm not really interested in debating it, just stating that I have reservations.

Killgore, that comes uncomfortably close to concern trolling in my mind.

229

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:41:46pm

re: #217 Obdicut

The leadership and policy direction of Komen seems to be all kinds of fucked up, but there may be local chapters that are good on every level.

The problem is that the leadership and policy direction of Komen suck. They've been exposed as liars who lobby DC against breast cancer research and funding for treatment. They claim "investigations" as a reason to defund PP, but give money to Penn State and other organizations under investigations of their own. They slap the pink ribbons on anything that will make them money, even if it makes no logical sense, like guns and fried chicken and cat food.

Yeah, there might be local chapters that do their own thing, but the national organization is broken beyond repair and has totally destroyed the SGK brand this week.

230

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:42:03pm

re: #223 Sergey Romanov

I will just note that the fact of the political goals was established through very specific evidence. Jeff Goldberg relied on *three* (anon) sources with direct knowledge of the decision making. Later one Komen guy (Jeff something?) stated quite openly that the intention was to cut off PP.

That's just not up for a debate.

So since a political decision to cut off the PP has been made, the outrage is justified.

Absolutely - it was a member of the Komen board who told the New York Times explicitly that they intended to defund Planned Parenthood. It's a fact, now confirmed by multiple sources.

231

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:42:18pm

re: #227 Obdicut

I don't want to drag out the weird, sketchy cases that are often used by the anti-choice advocates as proof of the evil of women, really. I was just more pointing out that the question is a stupid one. For example, I also think that abortions should only be done under medical supervision, which would also count as not thinking abortion should be legal in all circumstances.

But you don't have to answer that it should be legal in all circumstances.

232

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:42:37pm

re: #221 Gus 802

The ability for a woman to decide or choose her own physical destiny isn't a critical civil liberty?

Save it. Dark has no empathy for women because he thinks simply not being one precludes the even the possibility attempting to see things from their point of view.

233

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:43:05pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Killgore, that comes uncomfortably close to concern trolling in my mind.

Are you concerned about that?
///
///

234

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:44:29pm

re: #231 Sergey Romanov

But you don't have to answer that it should be legal in all circumstances.

In the Gallup poll? Yes I would. "Legal in all circumstances" was one of the options, and "Legal only in certain circumstances" was another. The latter is far too broad. In the context of the poll, legal in all circumstances would be the closest approximation of my views, but it's not accurate.

235

engineer cat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:45:20pm

Legal only in a few circumstances 38%
Illegal in all circumstances 20%

unless i am very much mistaken, anti-abortion crusaders are demanding that abortion be "Illegal in all circumstances", not "Legal only in a few circumstances"

236

SpaceJesus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:45:37pm

Confederate Moon President goes Keynesian

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

237

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:45:52pm

re: #234 Obdicut

In the Gallup poll? Yes I would. "Legal in all circumstances" was one of the options, and "Legal only in certain circumstances" was another. The latter is far too broad. In the context of the poll, legal in all circumstances would be the closest approximation of my views, but it's not accurate.

#195

238

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:46:44pm

re: #229 Lidane

I agree. I hope that the women who are involved with Komen take the time to learn thoroughly about the political activities of the leadership, and act accordingly. They are not the only group out there that deals with breast cancer, by a long shot.

239

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:46:45pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Killgore, that comes uncomfortably close to concern trolling in my mind.

I don't think so. I think it's a moral obligation to not participate in causes that you're not comfortable with. I'm not telling anyone else that they shouldn't take down Komen but I don't feel comfortable cheering it on. I'm very pro-abortion and supportive of Planned Parenthood.

240

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:47:14pm

re: #235 engineer dog

Legal only in a few circumstances 38%
Illegal in all circumstances 20%

unless i am very much mistaken, anti-abortion crusaders are demanding that abortion be "Illegal in all circumstances", not "Legal only in a few circumstances"

I think that those who allow abortion only in cases of rape, incest and danger to mother's life are still very much on the anti-choice side of things.

241

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:47:31pm

re: #236 SpaceJesus

Confederate Moon President goes Keynesian

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Rino.

242

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:47:55pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

I'm very pro-abortion

Uh, that's a poor frame ;)

243

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:48:43pm

re: #242 Sergey Romanov

Uh, that's a poor frame ;)

Intentionally so.

244

sagehen Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:48:45pm

Michelle Obama can do more push-ups than you.

Youtube Video

245

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:48:53pm

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

I think that those who demand abortion only in cases of rape, incest and danger to mother's life are still very much on the anti-choice side of things.

They're hardly 2/3 the way to the hardcore bishops' position.

246

engineer cat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:49:04pm

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

I think that those who demand abortion only in cases of rape, incest and danger to mother's life are still very much on the anti-choice side of things.

i haven't heard of any anti-abortion crusaders specifying this position as their aim

247

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:49:26pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

Intentionally so.

You're not pro-abortion?

248

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:49:39pm

re: #237 Sergey Romanov

#195

Sorry, I should say not that the quesetion is stupid, but that combining "Legal under most circumstances" with "Legal only in a few circumstances" is stupid.

So, you're right, I could have answered in a way that fits my opinion, but the presentation of that answer would not be faithful or accurate.

249

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:49:52pm

re: #246 engineer dog

i haven't heard of any anti-abortion crusaders specifying this position as their aim

I have.

250

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:50:14pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

I'm not telling anyone else that they shouldn't take down Komen but I don't feel comfortable cheering it on.

Who is taking down Komen, and in what way are they doing so?

251

engineer cat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:51:32pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

I'm very pro-abortion

i much prefer bill clinton's formulation of this as hoping that abortion could be "safe, legal, and rare"

252

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:51:34pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

Intentionally so.

You be trollin' bro?

253

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:51:53pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

No, that is a bridge too far. Social conservatism is not nutty, IMO. Sometimes it can be wrong, but being against abortion or oversexualized media products does not make you crazy.

Define 'over sexualized'.

254

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:52:05pm

re: #252 Sergey Romanov

You be trollin' bro?

It's a day that ends in 'y'.

255

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:52:20pm

re: #236 SpaceJesus

Confederate Moon President goes Keynesian

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

And do you know the name of a program that is used to supply business (and thus money for growth) to merchants? That's right, Food Stamps! People who receive food stamps-type aid do not get bricks of "government cheese", instead they use those allocated monies to buy food from places like Albertson's (which sells as "Jewel-Osco" in IL-IN-WI) or Wal-Mart. So now we see Newt as he really is: A nasty loudmouth who doesn't really know what he's talking about.

256

engineer cat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:54:17pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

And do you know the name of a program that is used to supply business (and thus money for growth) to merchants? That's right, Food Stamps! People who receive food stamps-type aid do not get bricks of "government cheese", instead they use those allocated monies to buy food from places like Albertson's (which sells as "Jewel-Osco" in IL-IN-WI) or Wal-Mart. So now we see Newt as he really is: A nasty loudmouth who doesn't really know what he's talking about.

this!

257

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:54:31pm

re: #249 Sergey Romanov

I have.

You're describing a 'soft' pro-lifer position, possibly a majority among the non-Catholic side. They still want to see the end of Roe v Wade.

258

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:54:39pm

BTW, an inside Komen doc:

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

Q
2
:
How many organizations will be affected by this change?
A2: We don¶t have a specific number at this time, as our Affiliates are currently receiving andevaluating applications for community grants for the next fiscal year.
Q
3:
Is it true that Komen is no longer making grants to Planned Parenthood?
A3: Under this tightened criteria, a number of organizations will no longer be eligible for Komenfunding, among them, Planned Parenthood.
If asked for additional details about Planned Parenthood
:
Our decision to fund anybreast health program is based on a thorough assessment of community needs andresources. For several years, a number of Komen Affiliates have provided funding tovarious Planned Parenthood clinics exclusively for breast health services. PlannedParenthood has been a longstanding partner in these communities. Planned Parenthoodhas been a longstanding partner with Komen in a number of communities. Currently,however, various authorities at both the state and federal levels are conductinginvestigations involving the organization and some of its local chapters, and theorganization is barred from receiving government funding in numerous states. Under these new criteria, Planned Parenthood will be ineligible to receive new funding fromKomen until these investigations are complete and these issues are resolved.
Q4
:
On what basis is Planned Parenthood no longer eligible to receive Komen grants?
A4: Various authorities at both the state and federal levels are conducting investigationsinvolving the organization and some of its local chapters, and the organization is barred fromreceiving government funding in numerous states. Under these new criteria, PlannedParenthood will be ineligible to receive new funding from Komen until these investigations arecomplete and these issues are resolved. Komen is making no assertions regarding theseinvestigations or Planned Parenthood.

That's from December.

"The right thing". Please.

259

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:54:56pm

re: #236 SpaceJesus

Confederate Moon President goes Keynesian

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Just quoting so I can read 'Confederate Moon President' again. Giggle.

260

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:54:59pm

re: #253 b_sharp

Define 'over sexualized'.

Here's a good starting point.

261

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:55:13pm

re: #253 b_sharp

Define 'over sexualized'.

I'm going to have to pull a Justice Potter Stewart on this one: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

262

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:56:36pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

So now we see Newt as he really is: A nasty loudmouth who doesn't really know what he's talking about.

That's been true for decades. The only people who would be surprised by Newt not having a clue are folks who weren't paying attention.

263

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:56:56pm

re: #257 Decatur Deb

You're describing a 'soft' pro-lifer position, possibly a majority among the non-Catholic side. They still want to see the end of Roe v Wade.

Yes. BTW, with a few "purist libertarian" exceptions (those who are not against reproductive rights but think this was a poorly argued decision), opposition to Roe v. Wade qualifies one as anti-choice, IMHO.

264

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:57:18pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to have to pull a Justice Potter Stewart on this one: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

I find your fascination with other peoples' sexuality to be oversexualized.

265

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:58:25pm

NBC will live stream the Superbowl on the web for the first time.

[Link: snfallaccess.nbcsports.com...]

266

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:59:14pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

re: #7 Gus 802

Downdings for the mislabeling of Ross Douthat. He is a conservative, but neither a wingnut nor a theocrat.

You two normally do better than that. When rwmofo provokes you go after him, but don't mislabel the writer of the article he quotes in so doing. It makes you look dishonest and promotes the idea that a conservative cannot expect a fair shake from liberals.

LOL I just noticed this. Seriously dude.

267

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:59:26pm

re: #253 b_sharp

Define 'over sexualized'.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

268

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:59:36pm

re: #265 Charleston Chew

NBC will live stream the Superbowl on the web for the first time.

[Link: snfallaccess.nbcsports.com...]

Yeah,, cause i'd much rather watch it on a PDA or my cell phone than on my recliner in front of the big screen/ surround sound system!!!
///

269

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:59:43pm

re: #232 goddamnedfrank

Save it. Dark has no empathy for women because he thinks simply not being one precludes the even the possibility attempting to see things from their point of view.

Sattv4u2 apparently has a problem with the above statement. It's based on a blatant admission Dark made last year:

You're right, I can't. Women's experiences are foreign to me and I've just decided to leave such issues alone. But I won't ever put a woman in the position where the question of abortion would be forced upon them, either.

Except of course, inasmuch as he votes for and supports people who would do exactly that.

270

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 1:59:54pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to have to pull a Justice Potter Stewart on this one: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

Isn't that the judge who was busted for having his dick in a penis-pump in his courtroom?

271

Ben G. Hazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:00:22pm

re: #99 Charles

I just searched Google News for "National Prayer Breakfast," and discovered that Erick's not the only one; the right is utterly losing their shit over this simple statement by Obama:

The TPGOP really has become the party of "fuck you, I've got mine" and "oppose President Obama at all costs, even on subjects where we might agree"...and they've gotten some in the 99% onboard because those masses hope to one day be part of the 1%.

Bunch of nihilistic assholes...

272

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:00:36pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to have to pull a Justice Potter Stewart on this one: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

True, but for certain traditionalist fanatics women not wearing "modest clothes" (by their def) are over-sexualized, and most of the American advertising involving females is just Devil's vomit.

And they know it when they see it too.

273

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:01:12pm

re: #270 darthstar

Isn't that the judge who was busted for having his dick in a penis-pump in his courtroom?

Sorry...different conservative judge.

274

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:01:15pm

re: #262 Lidane

That's been true for decades. The only people who would be surprised by Newt not having a clue are folks who weren't paying attention.

Or people who really wanted a conservative hero so badly they let themselves be blind to reality.

And I can understand that, upon reflection and self-analysis. Mitt Romney is a highly skilled organizer and a superb manager, but that is all he is. He's not a heroic figure, not at all. And those who such a figure, or think such a figure is needed to defeat Obama have cast about looking for one. Some in their casting have made the mistake of thinking Newt Gingrich could be that hero. They will be sorely disappointed.

275

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:01:46pm

re: #269 goddamnedfrank
Sattv4u2 apparently has a problem with the above statement

Yup

But I won't ever put a woman in the position where the question of abortion would be forced upon them, either

oh ,, damn!!

276

erik_t Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:02:01pm

re: #269 goddamnedfrank

Except of course, inasmuch as he votes for and supports people who would do exactly that.

Well, no woman will ever be put in the position of the abortion question if abortion is 100% illegal...

277

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:02:31pm

re: #265 Charleston Chew

NBC will live stream the Superbowl on the web for the first time.

[Link: snfallaccess.nbcsports.com...]

"requires Microsoft Silverlight"

Nope. I'm almost 100% MS free & I like keeping it that way. Silverlight may even be a good product but it's not going on my Macbook. ;)

278

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:02:35pm

re: #273 darthstar

Sorry...different conservative judge.

Are you sure he is a conservative?

279

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:02:56pm

re: #247 Sergey Romanov

You're not pro-abortion?

It's an intentionally inflammatory expression of my position I've been using since back when LGF was a ~~conservative~~ wingnut blog. I think "pro-choice" is a bit weak of a term. I'm actually pro-abortion. More people should have them. A lot of women don't get them because of family, church or social pressures. If the stigma of having an abortion were removed in many cases I think it would be a good thing.

280

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:03:07pm

re: #268 sattv4u2

Yeah,, cause i'd much rather watch it on a PDA or my cell phone than on my recliner in front of the big screen/ surround sound system!!!
///

I might watch it on my 42" cell phone.

281

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:04:26pm

I have a mystery here. My son posted a picture on Facebook that was taken sometime in the 1970's, probably somewhere in Michigan.

Where is this bridge?

I blurred out the faces of the couple (my parents) but we can't figure out where this picture was taken. The overpass does not look like any bridge that I can identify. It's obviously under construction (from the huge crane) and my mother says she totally does not remember where that picture was taken.

So, I'd be interested in showing this picture to everyone who might be able to identify where it was taken. It's probably somewhere in Michigan, in the metro Detroit area.

282

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:04:49pm

re: #278 Sergey Romanov

Are you sure he is a conservative?

Good point...Oklahoma is known for its progressive judges...my apologies.
/

283

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:05:18pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

It's an intentionally inflammatory expression of my position I've been using since back when LGF was a ~~conservative~~ wingnut blog. I think "pro-choice" is a bit weak of a term. I'm actually pro-abortion. More people should have them. A lot of women don't get them because of family, church or social pressures. If the stigma of having an abortion were removed in many cases I think it would be a good thing.

Heh. You have a dark view of the world, don't you? ;)

284

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:06:24pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

Sattv4u2 apparently has a problem with the above statement

Yup

But I won't ever put a woman in the position where the question of abortion would be forced upon them, either

oh ,, damn!!

Don't, Satt. It's not worth it trying to defend me on that issue. ON some matters, I do indeed lack empathy and that is all there is to it.

285

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:06:36pm

re: #282 darthstar

Good point...Oklahoma is known for its progressive judges...my apologies.
/

I've no idea if that precinct, or whatever it is called, is not blue or the judge isn't a Dem.

286

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:06:46pm

re: #281 Alouette

Given the location, it kind of looks like it might be a pedestrian overpass, and not a bridge.

287

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:06:56pm

I did a Google image search of Bridges Michigan. It's not the I-94 overpass which is very distinctive and constructed many years later, and other bridges of that design type are over water.

288

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:07:15pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Don't, Satt. It's not worth it trying to defend me on that issue. ON some matters, I do indeed lack empathy and that is all there is to it.

Empathy can be learned.

289

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:07:20pm

re: #273 darthstar

Sorry...different conservative judge.

He said he may have absentmindedly squeezed the pump's handle during court cases but never used it to masturbate.

*Coughbullshit!cough*

"Boy, this guy's testimony is really boring. Say, I wonder what would happen if..."

290

Killgore Trout Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:07:59pm

re: #283 Sergey Romanov

Heh. You have a dark view of the world, don't you? ;)

There's a planned Parenthood just a few blocks away from me. You don't think my "I just had an abortion!" t-shirts are going to sell?

291

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:08:56pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Or the other famous raging hippie-moonbat Lance Armstrong!

//

Armstrong's a good guy, but he doesn't have magic immunity from making poor decisions based on a wave of backlash any more than the rest of us.

In this case, I think he made precisely the right call. PP can use the money, and Komen needed to see that their political chicanery wasn't flying.

292

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:09:07pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to have to pull a Justice Potter Stewart on this one: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

In other words, your concept of the difference between good sex and bad sex is a product of your pseudo-biblical indoctrination, something each of us needs to overcome before we can develop a realistic and practical view of sex.

293

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:10:13pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Don't, Satt. It's not worth it trying to defend me on that issue. ON some matters, I do indeed lack empathy and that is all there is to it.

I take the statement as a whole. No male could ever feel what a womans thought process must be like during a time of that decision, be she pro choice or pro life. To attack you on being honest about it sucks

294

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:10:57pm

re: #286 Obdicut

Given the location, it kind of looks like it might be a pedestrian overpass, and not a bridge.

Obvious it is an overpass since it's going over a street, but the only overpass with that shape is the I-94 over Telegraph.

Now I'm wondering if that crane was hauling the overpass structure somewhere else.

295

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:11:40pm

re: #293 sattv4u2

No male can be sympathetic to a pregnant woman, but they can be empathetic.

Anyone who lacks empathy for a group (assuming they're not an EEEVIL group) should A) try to learn empathy for that group and B) until they do so, recuse themselves from decisions affecting that group.

296

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:12:01pm

re: #267 Decatur Deb

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Making a vulnerable member of society appealing to a predator is ignorant, being a human predator is even worse.

297

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:12:30pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Don't, Satt. It's not worth it trying to defend me on that issue. ON some matters, I do indeed lack empathy and that is all there is to it.

Honesty ding. The thing is though, you sound content with this assessment, which is sad. Like Obdicut said, empathy can be learned / taught just like its opposite, but you have to want something more in life than simply a group identity with people who view it as a liability.

298

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:13:13pm

re: #295 Obdicut

Correct, but I was talking about the 2nd half of the statement (which I italicized in my response to frank)

299

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:13:14pm

re: #296 b_sharp

Making a vulnerable member of society appealing to a predator is ignorant, being a human predator is even worse.

So we might have a consensus baseline for 'oversexualized'.

300

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:13:18pm

re: #294 Alouette

Now I'm wondering if that crane was hauling the overpass structure somewhere else.

I thought of that too, but there's a surveyor's tool in the bottom left of hte picture, so if it is hauling it, it's probably hauling it to right in front of where your parents are. It also looks like it would totally take out the power lines if they were hauling it that way.

301

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:13:31pm

re: #285 Sergey Romanov

I've no idea if that precinct, or whatever it is called, is not blue or the judge isn't a Dem.

Nope...he's got too strong of a family values background to be a Democrat...he has to be a conservative.

Ex-judge Donald D. Thompson had filed two appeals to have his retirement payments reinstated after they were cut off following a 2006 conviction for indecent exposure and other felony charges, The Oklahoman reported.

Thompson was caught using the sex enhancement device under his robe while he served on the bench as a Cook County judge in 2004 and served 20 months in jail following his conviction.

302

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:13:57pm

re: #281 Alouette

I have a mystery here. My son posted a picture on Facebook that was taken sometime in the 1970's, probably somewhere in Michigan.

Where is this bridge?

I blurred out the faces of the couple (my parents) but we can't figure out where this picture was taken. The overpass does not look like any bridge that I can identify. It's obviously under construction (from the huge crane) and my mother says she totally does not remember where that picture was taken.

So, I'd be interested in showing this picture to everyone who might be able to identify where it was taken. It's probably somewhere in Michigan, in the metro Detroit area.

Almost looks like one of these...

[Link: www.bphod.com...]

Might be a bit smaller. But that bridge is obviously being craned in so it was built off site.

303

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:14:01pm

re: #299 Decatur Deb

So we might have a consensus baseline for 'oversexualized'.

If you look it up in the dictionary you'll see my photo

304

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:14:04pm

re: #298 sattv4u2

Correct, but I was talking about the 2nd half of the statement (which I italicized in my response to frank)

That's nice.

305

Varek Raith Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:14:54pm

Fox's Crowder: Obama "Should Go Back To Burning The Taxpayer-Funded Incense To Whatever Pagan, Foreign Deity He's Worshipping"

306

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:15:20pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

If you look it up in the dictionary you'll see my photo

When you take your long quiet drives home, do you steer with one hand?

307

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:15:25pm

re: #281 Alouette

You've found it

IT'S THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE!!

308

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:15:47pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

Fox's Crowder: Obama "Should Go Back To Burning The Taxpayer-Funded Incense To Whatever Pagan, Foreign Deity He's Worshipping"

Oh brother. Crowder's on Fox now? Dumb just got dumber.

309

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:16:15pm

re: #306 BongCrodny

When you take your long quiet drives home, do you steer with one hand?

He locks his wheel in place with "the club"...

310

Obdicut Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:16:18pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

Fox's Crowder: Obama "Should Go Back To Burning The Taxpayer-Funded Incense To Whatever Pagan, Foreign Deity He's Worshipping"

Um, does that chowderhead realize that the Christian god is also 'foreign'?

311

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:16:25pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

If you look it up in the dictionary you'll see my photo

This is all I get:

Image: putz_for_school_board.gif

312

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:16:37pm

re: #306 BongCrodny

When you take your long quiet drives home, do you steer with one hand?

I have knees for that

313

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:16:52pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

Fox's Crowder: Obama "Should Go Back To Burning The Taxpayer-Funded Incense To Whatever Pagan, Foreign Deity He's Worshipping"

At least he didn't call the president a Muslim.
//

314

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:17:05pm

re: #298 sattv4u2

Correct, but I was talking about the 2nd half of the statement (which I italicized in my response to frank)

You were being deliberately obtuse, the difference between sympathy and empathy is clear, well defined and obvious. Obtuseness is your specialty, you personify the term, this explains how a man near retirement can pay taxes his whole life while misunderstanding the structure of the very system he's paid into.

315

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:17:21pm

re: #305 Varek Raith

Fox's Crowder: Obama "Should Go Back To Burning The Taxpayer-Funded Incense To Whatever Pagan, Foreign Deity He's Worshipping"

Let's just mark that one down in the "Racist Filth" column. It's a statement so blatantly dishonest and bigoted as to foreclose any motive for its utterance save malice aforethought.

316

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:17:25pm

re: #309 darthstar

He locks his wheel in place with "the club"...

"It's driving me nuts!"

317

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:17:42pm

Hey Sergey! What's your take on this:
[Link: www.npr.org...]

318

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:17:54pm

re: #314 goddamnedfrank

Awwww

How nice it of you to remember the anniversary of my moms passing!

319

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:18:59pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

If you look it up in the dictionary you'll see my photo

You mean under braggart, right.

320

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:20:43pm

re: #319 b_sharp

You mean under braggart, right.

It's hard to be humble when you're this good

321

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:20:46pm

re: #310 Obdicut

Um, does that chowderhead realize that the Christian god is also 'foreign'?

An invasive species that just about wiped out the indigenous religions.

322

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:21:15pm

re: #310 Obdicut

Um, does that chowderhead realize that the Christian god is also 'foreign'?

Not his, apparently. He worships Amuricun Jesus.

323

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:22:15pm

re: #260 Gus 802

Here's a good starting point.

Oh seriously, Cracked, it's not news to anyone that there are stories about sex and violence in the Bible.

324

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:22:22pm

re: #297 goddamnedfrank

Honesty ding. The thing is though, you sound content with this assessment, which is sad. Like Obdicut said, empathy can be learned / taught just like its opposite, but you have to want something more in life than simply a group identity with people who view it as a liability.

The problem is that if you think you know how someone is feeling and try to make conclusions based on that understanding, chances are you'll be wrong a lot early on. Damn high costs to being wrong on stuff like that at my age. Would have been easier if I'd tried when I was younger, but I didn't really understand the problems I have and their effects till I was in college.

325

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:22:42pm

re: #310 Obdicut

Um, does that chowderhead realize that the Christian god is also 'foreign'?

I can't think of any domestic deities apart from the Cthulhu pantheon, Xenu, and Ronald Reagan. I must be missing a few?

326

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:22:57pm

re: #322 Charleston Chew

Not his, apparently. He worships Amuricun Jesus.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers."

327

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:23:13pm

re: #318 sattv4u2

Awww

How nice it of you to remember the anniversary of my moms passing!

You mom's passing had nothing to do with you not understanding basic tax policy and insisting on the wrong answer for some time even after being corrected. It's a sad event for sure and we all have tragedy in our lives, but to use them as an excuse for an unrelated personal failures is utterly pathetic, and infantile. Sometimes it's impossible to believe you're actually a grown man.

328

jamesfirecat Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:23:24pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

Once you rule that keeping someone alive is more important than you controlling your own organs blood/organ donations become mandetory.

It may not happy, it probably won't happen, but can you give me an ethical argument why it shouldn't?

329

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:23:50pm

re: #317 wlewisiii

Hey Sergey! What's your take on this:
[Link: www.npr.org...]

Take, as in do I like it? It's so-so musically, some parts of it are "not mine" politically, as they're a critique from a "patriotic" POV, although on the whole I cannot but cheer the fact of the VDV guys creating and singing this.

I prefer RABFAQ, although they always have a tongue in cheek and make some good-natured fun of the protesters too.

330

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:24:01pm

re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh seriously, Cracked, it's not news to anyone that there are stories about sex and violence in the Bible.

There's a reason why it's the most read book ion the world

what ,,,, you think it was because of the animals going on to a boat two by two !?!?!

331

Charleston Chew Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:24:13pm

re: #322 Charleston Chew

Not his, apparently. He worships Amuricun Jesus.

And, lo, Jesus said unto them, "I know what you're thinking. 'Did he have 5 loaves and 2 fish or only 4 loaves and 1 fish?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"

332

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:24:29pm

re: #270 darthstar

Isn't that the judge who was busted for having his dick in a penis-pump in his courtroom?

No, that was Donald Thompson.

333

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:25:00pm

re: #320 sattv4u2

It's hard to be humble when you're this good

Wow...is it fucking awesome in here or is it just you?

334

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:25:20pm

re: #281 Alouette

I have a mystery here. My son posted a picture on Facebook that was taken sometime in the 1970's, probably somewhere in Michigan.

Where is this bridge?

I blurred out the faces of the couple (my parents) but we can't figure out where this picture was taken. The overpass does not look like any bridge that I can identify. It's obviously under construction (from the huge crane) and my mother says she totally does not remember where that picture was taken.

So, I'd be interested in showing this picture to everyone who might be able to identify where it was taken. It's probably somewhere in Michigan, in the metro Detroit area.

Try looking through these.

[Link: www.michigan.gov...]

335

darthstar Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:25:25pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that was Donald Thompson.

Yep...discussed that mistake already.

336

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:25:28pm

re: #327 goddamnedfrank

You mom's passing had nothing to do with you not understanding basic tax policy and insisting on the wrong answer for some time even after being corrected

incorrect

I made one statement on that thread about it

Your issue was with NJD

337

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:25:44pm

re: #272 Sergey Romanov

True, but for certain traditionalist fanatics women not wearing "modest clothes" (by their def) are over-sexualized, and most of the American advertising involving females is just Devil's vomit.

And they know it when they see it too.

True, but that doesn't stop me from finding that a lot of current media depicts sexuality in a really shoddy and exploitative way. I'll never get over being queasy about "The Bachelor" and its spin-off shows.

338

Varek Raith Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:26:01pm

re: #333 darthstar

Wow...is it fucking awesome in here or is it just you?

It's totally me.

339

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:26:20pm

re: #333 darthstar

Wow...is it fucking awesome in here or is it just you?

Please form a single line for autographs and photos

340

Stanghazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:26:55pm

re: #333 darthstar

Wow...is it fucking awesome in here or is it just you?

I'm still dwelling on oversexualized.

341

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:27:49pm

re: #336 sattv4u2

You mom's passing had nothing to do with you not understanding basic tax policy and insisting on the wrong answer for some time even after being corrected

incorrect

I made one statement on that thread about it

Your issue was with NJD

Do you have a scroll wheel on your mouse?

342

goddamnedfrank Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:28:26pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that if you think you know how someone is feeling and try to make conclusions based on that understanding, chances are you'll be wrong a lot early on. Damn high costs to being wrong on stuff like that at my age. Would have been easier if I'd tried when I was younger, but I didn't really understand the problems I have and their effects till I was in college.

Most colleges with an MFT program usually have a community counseling program that operates on a sliding scale. I've used one here locally when struggling with some issues, like the divorce. All that's necessary is a desire to change, or at least a recognition that the current way of things isn't working on some level.

343

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:28:31pm

re: #341 b_sharp

Do you have a scroll wheel on your mouse?

No, he has little feet and cute whiskers

344

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:29:37pm

re: #282 darthstar

Good point...Oklahoma is known for its progressive judges...my apologies.
/

I don't think it matters. A man who's masturbating through trials isn't paying enough attention for his personal philosophy to have much rein.

345

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:30:42pm

re: #341 b_sharp

Do you have a scroll wheel on your mouse?

re: #343 sattv4u2

No, he has little feet and cute whiskers

I must misunderstand everything.

Here I was thinking b-sharp's comment was a penis joke.

346

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:30:57pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think it matters. A man who's masturbating through trials isn't paying enough attention for his personal philosophy to have much rein.

mayhaps that IS his personal philosophy!!

347

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:31:49pm

re: #345 BongCrodny

re: #343 sattv4u2

I must misunderstand everything.

Here I was thinking b-sharp's comment was a penis joke.

I thought it was a paraplegic lil furry critter one

348

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:32:02pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

There's a planned Parenthood just a few blocks away from me. You don't think my "I just had an abortion!" t-shirts are going to sell?

Probably not, and the possibilities of getting killed by someone's stressed-out boyfriend are high. I once watched a young man damn near snap in the waiting room at the San Francisco Planned Parenthood office. It was a sunny spring day, and the windows were open, which meant everyone in the office could hear the yellers.

I still wonder why they never seem to hit Kaiser.

349

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:32:27pm

re: #302 Gus 802

Almost looks like one of these...

[Link: www.bphod.com...]

Might be a bit smaller. But that bridge is obviously being craned in so it was built off site.

Wow, that could be it!

350

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:32:43pm

re: #292 b_sharp

In other words, your concept of the difference between good sex and bad sex is a product of your pseudo-biblical indoctrination, something each of us needs to overcome before we can develop a realistic and practical view of sex.

Do you think the media, as a whole, has a realistic view of sex?

351

BongGhazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:33:48pm

re: #347 sattv4u2

I thought it was a paraplegic lil furry critter one

Is that a scroll wheel on your mouse or are you just happy to see me?

352

Ben G. Hazi Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:34:09pm

re: #270 darthstar

Isn't that the judge who was busted for having his dick in a penis-pump in his courtroom?

No, he was the SCOTUS justice who helped define the legal test to determine porn:

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that. [Emphasis added.]
—Justice Potter Stewart, concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio 378 U.S. 184 (1964), regarding possible obscenity in The Lovers.

353

Gus Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:34:14pm

re: #349 Alouette

Wow, that could be it!

Look very similar doesn't it? Not sure but this one might be smaller. And this one has those arch extensions. Was also looking through here...

[Link: www.michigan.gov...]

Nada so far. They have some bridges from the 60s.

354

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:35:50pm

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

True, but that doesn't stop me from finding that a lot of current media depicts sexuality in a really shoddy and exploitative way. I'll never get over being queasy about "The Bachelor" and its spin-off shows.

I think this problem doesn't have a solution that is not arbitrary to a large extent.

355

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:38:51pm

re: #354 Sergey Romanov

I think this problem doesn't have a solution that is not arbitrary to a large extent.

It doesn't have much of a solution at all, except choosing what you prefer to watch, and trying to give things that are honest and non-squicky more exposure.

But I think it's silly to say that the media isn't sex-drenched, and most of the sex it's drenched with is pretty stupid, sometimes rising to offensive.

I say this as someone who likes Lady Gaga as much as the next gal.

356

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:39:21pm

re: #339 sattv4u2

Please form a single line for autographs and photos

How much are you paying?

357

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:40:39pm

re: #355 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I see only snippets of the US broadcasting, so I can't be a judge of that. But I did see an outrage over a freaking nipple. How do these things mesh?

358

sattv4u2 Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:41:14pm

And on that note, My full undivided attention must be paid to the people that pay us for sending the Super Bowl to Europe and South America

GO PATRIOTS!!

359

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:43:48pm

re: #350 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think the media, as a whole, has a realistic view of sex?

If so, I have been horribly shortchanged.

360

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:45:14pm

re: #310 Obdicut

Um, does that chowderhead realize that the Christian god is also 'foreign'?

Supply Side Jesus is a white Republican and Real American.

That other Jesus from the Bible is a foreign guy from the Middle East.

361

Lidane Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:47:45pm

re: #322 Charleston Chew

Not his, apparently. He worships Amuricun Jesus.

It's amazing how relevant this song is after 20 years:

Youtube Video

362

Vicious Babushka Sun, Feb 5, 2012 2:59:08pm

re: #267 Decatur Deb

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

WHAT WERE THE PARENTS THINKING!

Probably they were thinking about the $$$$ and the photographer who says "I don't think there's anything sexual about it at all" (I'm not talking about the 10year-old in lipstick and heels, I'm talking about the 15-year-old on the motorcycle with the "fuck me" expression and posture)--the photographer is probably gay if he doesn't think there is anything sexual about that picture!

363

b_snark Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:00:10pm

re: #350 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you think the media, as a whole, has a realistic view of sex?

I think the media has a investment in sensationalization, so their representation of it is unrealistic. I also think basing ideas about sex on a rigid view unrealistic.

364

Jaerik Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:55:45pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

You lost me there. I don't see abortion as a critical civil liberty, though.

Going to upding DF on this one, even though I strongly disagree with him. I don't like down-dinging someone for expressing an opinion I happen to disagree with. Let's save that for the trolls and the functionally illiterate. DF is neither.

Really, I think the entire thing comes down to one single issue that the whole country keeps dancing around: is a fetus a human life?

Whether it's "the woman's body" or "the woman's right to choose," or "the sanctity of human life" or "protecting the unborn" or whatever the hell other statement you want to make about it, the whole argument on either side waterfalls in a logical chain from that initial preconception. And for some reason, it's the argument no one wants to really have, instead couching it in secondary political or religious terminology. It's like everyone's given up on the central argument and now is just content to bicker at each other in code.

I'm pretty up front in what I believe on this one: fetuses are not human until they are viable -- essentially the existing definition of Roe v. Wade. I cannot point to any religious, scientific, or even traditional argument to call this statement into question. Thus, the rights of the mother to do with her body as she wishes trumps the "rights" of the fetus.

365

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 5, 2012 3:57:44pm

re: #364 Jaerik