Suddenly Contraceptives Are Controversial?

It’s not about religious freedom. It’s about control.
Wingnuts • Views: 29,618

Unless I passed out under an enchanted tree and have been sleeping for decades without knowing, this is the year 2012, right? AD?

So why are we still fighting over contraception?

The controversy over the Susan G. Komen for the Cure foundation’s decision to eliminate funding to Planned Parenthood—and subsequent reversal— continues. Catholic leaders are blasting the health reform requirement that insurance plans to cover contraceptives. Commentator Mark Shields joined other liberals in blasting the provision, saying it could have “cataclysmic” fallout for President Obama come November.

Numerous pundits have predicted that the requirement —and its narrow exemption for churches — will be a political liability for Obama. But where Shields sees “cataclysmic” fallout, the White House sees something quite different: a chance to widen the reproductive health debate beyond abortion to issues like contraceptives, winning over key demographics of independent voters in the process.

And that could explain why the White House, alongside the Obama campaign, has engaged eagerly on the issues. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius was in USA Today earlier this week, praising the new provision. The Obama campaign meanwhile hasn’t been shy either, drawing up an infographic praising the new regulation. While there are some signs of a potential compromise for religious groups, the White House has made it pretty clear it plans to stand firm behind the current regulation.

But while Catholic leadership has blasted the new regulation, polls show that a majority of Catholics are actually more supportive of the provision than the rest of the country. A poll out Tuesday from the Public Religion Research Institute finds 52 percent of Catholic voters agreed with the statement, “employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception and birth control at no cost.” That’s pretty much in line with overall support for the provision, which hovers at 55 percent - likely because Catholics use contraceptives at rates similar to the rest of Americans.

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879 comments
1 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:21:41pm

I just posted this in the previous thread:

2 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:21:47pm

If its God's will a woman gets raped, she can't go around defying him by being on birth control.

3 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:22:56pm

First they are against contraceptives.
Then they complain about abortions.
Wingnut logic, how does it work?

4 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:24:06pm

re: #3 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

First they are against contraceptives.
Then they complain about abortions.
Wingnut logic, how does it work?

Pretty simple, really: Sex should be The Way God Intended It To Be, which is to say, if you have it, you get pregnant, and if you get pregnant, you carry it to term. End of story. Christians on the right-wing end of the spectrum often believe that sex is strictly for reproductive purposes and should not be engaged in for pleasure. Yes, I'm serious.

5 Big Joe Ghazi  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:24:29pm

re: #3 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

and they hate welfare for all those un-aborted babies.

6 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:24:32pm

re: #3 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

First they are against contraceptives.
Then they complain about abortions.
Wingnut logic, how does it work?

Logic is for elitist marxists.

7 Robert O.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:24:34pm

I generally use CE (Common Era) as opposed to AD these days - if only to stick a middle finger at the religious right who wage these culture wars. I also find it more proper usage: why should, say, the Jews, the Chinese, the Indians (etc) accept having their timeline measured relative to the birth of a "domini" they don't believe in, when it is most likely the wrong date anyway.

8 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:24:42pm

Our MOTHERS went through this shit. I cannot believe we are going to re-live it in 2012.

The fundies are in control. To the detriment of any uneducated American.

I am really pissed.

9 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:25:39pm

re: #4 thedopefishlives

Christians on the right-wing end of the spectrum often believe that sex is strictly for reproductive purposes and should not be engaged in for pleasure.

That's pretty much the Catholic position on sex. Artificial birth control like condoms and The Pill remove the possibility of pregnancy from sex, which by their logic makes sex a selfish, immoral act because it's about a person's pleasure and not about making more babies.

10 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:25:45pm

An important fact the Administration should be emphasizing, birth control pills are often prescribed for health reasons above and beyond preventing pregnancy. For instance, the pill helps lower the risk of endometrial cancer.

11 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:26:47pm

"What good is my religion if I can't boss anyone around?"

12 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:27:29pm

re: #4 thedopefishlives

Pretty simple, really: Sex should be The Way God Intended It To Be, which is to say, if you have it, you get pregnant, and if you get pregnant, you carry it to term. End of story. Christians on the right-wing end of the spectrum often believe that sex is strictly for reproductive purposes and should not be engaged in for pleasure. Yes, I'm serious.

And the only time you should have it is in the bonds of marriage, when hubby gets the desire for a roll in the hay. And a good Christian woman is not supposed to enjoy sex, but instead approach it as a necessary act to carry out God's will. After all, if she got enjoyment out of it, she might...you know...seek to get it in other places besides the marriage bed.

13 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:30:04pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

And the only time you should have it is in the bonds of marriage, when hubby gets the desire for a roll in the hay. And a good Christian woman is not supposed to enjoy sex, but instead approach it as a necessary act to carry out God's will. After all, if she got enjoyment out of it, she might...you know...seek to get it in other places besides the marriage bed.

And some cultures have some pretty extreme ways to enforce that effect.

14 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:30:21pm

The Catholic Church and other churches and religious organizations want to have their cake and eat it too.

They pretend to act as non-partisan and/or non-political organizations in the face of the reality that they are indeed such things while benefiting from a non-profit and tax-free status. At this point they are private corporations that wield vast political power and influence most particularly with their partners in crime, the Republican Party.

This coming from a church led exclusively by celibate men well know for their perverted forays into the world of child sexual abuse. It's no wonder that the Catholic Church is losing numbers over the years. This church is best run with an ignorant and impoverished flock which they help maintain with their perverted interpretation of charity.

15 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:30:57pm

I has a sad. I is a boil on the ass of the blogosphere and nobody will ever love me. Boo hoo.

LGF Irrelevance Watch -- linked today at:

Politico (again): Left Blogs Rip Karen Handel for Attacks on PP

Mediaite (again): James O'Keefe's 'Fake Tim Tebow' Voter Fraud 'Investigation' Doesn't Have a Prayer

16 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:31:06pm

I thought the Catholic alternative to birth control was altar boys?

17 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:31:08pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

And the only time you should have it is in the bonds of marriage, when hubby gets the desire for a roll in the hay. And a good Christian woman is not supposed to enjoy sex, but instead approach it as a necessary act to carry out God's will. After all, if she got enjoyment out of it, she might...you know...seek to get it in other places besides the marriage bed.

To which my reply would be, "Well, if hubby actually learned how to pleasure a woman instead of effectively raping his wife, maybe she wouldn't HAVE to go elsewhere." But nobody listens to me...

18 Ming  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:31:55pm

I remember a few years ago, it came out in the news that the Republican Party itself had medical insurance for its employees that covered abortion.

I wonder if the Republican Party and the Republican National Committee presently cover abortion, and/or contraception for their employees? I wonder if Fox News does?

19 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:32:28pm

re: #8 Femanazi forever

Our MOTHERS went through this shit. I cannot believe we are going to re-live it in 2012.

The fundies are in control. To the detriment of any uneducated American.

I am really pissed.

Look on the bright side, everything old is new again, maybe we'll be able to dig out our/our parents disco related clothing and wear it without shame again!

20 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:33:13pm

The evangelical lobby is disgusting and subhuman

21 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:33:19pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

Look on the bright side, everything old is new again, maybe we'll be able to dig out our/our parents disco related clothing and wear it without shame again!

I have spent the last year living in 1979, without a microwave.

It was rough. I didn't think I would make it.

22 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:33:28pm

Btw, an OT thanks to Charles: The display name feature is working marvelously in Spy mode. It is much appreciated.

23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:33:55pm

re: #21 EmmmieG

Week. Last week. It only felt like a year.

24 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:34:01pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

Look on the bright side, everything old is new again, maybe we'll be able to dig out our/our parents disco related clothing and wear it without shame again!

*PEW*
Anyone else have any...suggestions?

25 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:34:39pm

This issue is an electoral lead weight that's going to sink the GOP politicians that embrace it.

Contraceptives are, as Rachel [Maddow] points out, far more a women's issue than a Catholic/religious issue. 99% of sexually experienced women have used contraceptives, and 98% of Catholic sexually experienced women have, too. Thanks to this universal use of birth control, we just found out today that teen pregnancy and abortion rates are at a record low. The Republican position would raise the barrier to women for obtaining birth control, and women are not likely to stand by and let that happen.
[Link: www.thepeoplesview.net...]

26 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:35:32pm

re: #23 EmmmieG

Week. Last week. It only felt like a year.

LOL, I was like wha?

27 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:35:55pm

re: #25 jaunte

This issue is an electoral lead weight that's going to sink the GOP politicians that embrace it.

Yay, now they'll get to learn how we Democrats feel about gun control!

28 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:36:10pm

re: #24 Varek Raith

*PEW*
Anyone else have any...suggestions?

Maybe we can get Lucas to remove all his "improvements" to the Star Wars trilogy and go back to Han shooting first.

29 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:36:24pm

re: #25 jaunte

This issue is an electoral lead weight that's going to sink the GOP politicians that embrace it.

Terri Schiavo. Well, Newt is back in the pix, why not.

GOP MEN. really?

30 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:36:42pm

re: #28 Dept of the Current Danger

Maybe we can get Lucas to remove all his "improvements" to the Star Wars trilogy and go back to Han shooting first.

Thing is, that would actually be a GOOD reversion.

31 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:40:15pm

Enough is enough. Churches and religion should keep their hobby to themselves. The time has come for all good men and women to reject this attempt at Biblical tyranny.

32 mr.fusion  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:40:21pm

But we're still boycotting Butterball for halal turkey's right?

33 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:40:45pm

re: #31 Gus

"Oppression!"

34 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:41:31pm

more babies = more average people for the wealthy to exploit.

35 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:42:10pm

re: #31 Gus

Enough is enough. Churches and religion should keep their hobby to themselves. The time has come for all good men and women to reject this attempt at Biblical tyranny.

We can start with the whole 'tax exempt' feature.

36 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:42:44pm

re: #34 Pamela Geller

I need to make up some "Young Janitors for Newt" buttons.

37 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:42:45pm

re: #34 Pamela Geller

more babies = more average people for the wealthy to exploit.

Also fresh cannon fodder for more Crusades wars to promote democracy and freedom!

38 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:42:47pm

re: #35 Varek Raith

We can start with the whole 'tax exempt' feature.

One of the biggest scams going.

39 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:43:27pm

Looks like the unthinkable has happened.

SpaceJesus has been transformed into Pamela Geller.

40 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:44:34pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Looks like the unthinkable has happened.

SpaceJesus has been transformed into Pamela Geller.

Well... She does combine Jesus and "Space"...

41 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:44:41pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Looks like the unthinkable has happened.

SpaceJesus has been transformed into Pamela Geller.

Vodka was contaminated.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

42 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:44:56pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Looks like the unthinkable has happened.

SpaceJesus has been transformed into Pamela Geller.

The radar-guided troll-seeking missiles are going haywire right now.

43 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:48:04pm

Thanks Charles for this thread. I'm tweeting now.

44 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:49:40pm

re: #37 Jimmi the Grey

Also fresh cannon fodder for more Crusades wars to promote democracy and freedom!

We have to convert the heathens! Make more babies!

///

45 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:50:24pm

I had to come back. If the Catholic Church has such a hard on about contraceptives, perhaps they should take care of their pedophilia Priests first.

46 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:50:46pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

oops, forgot about the change. ahem.


contraceptives are just one more example of the stealth halaal jihad.

a condom is just a burka for america's wieners.

47 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:50:59pm

/geller

48 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:51:00pm

re: #38 Gus

One of the biggest scams going.

49 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:51:09pm

re: #3 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

First they are against contraceptives.
Then they complain about abortions.
Wingnut logic, how does it work?

And if you complain when they're complicit in child rape (relocating offenders, refusing to cooperate with 'secular' investigators, pressuring victims not to speak out) then you are a venomous bigot, or at the very least arrogant and disrespectful.

50 Petero1818  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:52:19pm

re: #45 Bubblehead II

I had to come back. If the Catholic Church has such a hard on about contraceptives, perhaps they should take care of their pedophilia Priests first.

I think they have acknowledged that the pedophile priests amongst them, also cannot receive or use birth control.

51 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:52:33pm

re: #45 Bubblehead II

I had to come back. If the Catholic Church has such a hard on about contraceptives, perhaps they should take care of their pedophilia Priests first.

Glad you mentioned that since I was just thinking about that. The Holy See is more swift to act about the funding of contraception than they are and where to act on their sexual predators. It's a scandal. And didn't they just say more or less "it's OK for male prostitutes" to use condoms?

52 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:52:56pm

Rick Santorum:

"...many in the Christian faith have said, you know contraception is OK.
It’s not OK because it’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

[Link: www.rawstory.com...]

53 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:53:07pm

Display names are now visible in the LGF Spy for most types of events.

54 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:53:42pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Display names are now visible in the LGF Spy for most types of events.

What if I have a nervous breakdown?

//

55 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:54:19pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Looks like the unthinkable has happened.

SpaceJesus has been transformed into Pamela Geller.

Testing. Testing.

56 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:54:38pm

re: #54 Gus

What if I have a nervous breakdown?

//

One of the other 801 Guses will step into the breech.

57 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:54:46pm

re: #3 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

First they are against contraceptives.
Then they complain about abortions.
Wingnut logic, how does it work?

Pi = 3.1

58 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:55:02pm

re: #54 Gus

You seem pretty calm to me.

59 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:55:09pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

One of the other 801 Guses will step into the breech.

If I add 6 more then I can attain 808 state.

60 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:55:32pm

re: #59 Gus

If I add 6 more then I can attain 808 state.

404: Gus not found.

61 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:55:44pm

re: #3 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

First they are against contraceptives.
Then they complain about abortions.
Wingnut logic, how does it work?

Abstinence, abstinence, abstinence.

62 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:56:01pm

That's enough of that.

63 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:56:26pm

re: #54 Gus

What if I have a nervous breakdown?

//

Error - undefined function at line 2398.

64 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:57:08pm

re: #50 Petero1818

I think they have acknowledged that the pedophile priests amongst them, also cannot receive or use birth control.

Yep. Just like they've acknowledged that gays and lesbians are perfectly free to marry people of the opposite gender. =P

65 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:57:51pm

re: #61 Stealth Troll II

Abstinence, abstinence, abstinence.

interrupted, interrupted, interrupted

66 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:59:08pm
Catholics use contraceptives at rates similar to the rest of Americans

This suggests that the Church has not yet convinced its own membership, and should butt out where everyone else is concerned.

67 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 6:59:10pm

re: #58 Gus is not having a nervous breakdown

You seem pretty calm to me.

I am. Just all of this insanity like this contraception bologna and the CPAC/Vdare story. Then Santorum winning three states (I know the numbers are low compared to the overall population). I'd be fuming if I wasn't in such poor health but for crying out loud it's 2012 and we're having these turn of the century (19th to 20th century) debates. It's just mind boggling.

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:01:20pm

re: #66 jaunte

This suggests that the Church has not yet convinced its own membership, and should butt out where everyone else is concerned.

They've had tremendous success on continents like Africa.

69 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:01:29pm

re: #26 Femanazi forever

LOL, I was like wha?

I just wanted to preserve that nic.

70 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:01:34pm

re: #51 Gus

Glad you mentioned that since I was just thinking about that. The Holy See is more swift to act about the funding of contraception than they are and where to act on their sexual predators. It's a scandal. And didn't they just say more or less "it's OK for male prostitutes" to use condoms?

Stay on target--The Vatican hasn't said anything about the ACA rules, AFAIK.
The outrage is coming from a majority of the US Council of Bishops, which is more a policy group than a religious entity.

71 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:01:43pm

re: #67 Gus

I am. Just all of this insanity like this contraception bologna and the CPAC/Vdare story. Then Santorum winning three states (I know the numbers are low compared to the overall population). I'd be fuming if I wasn't in such poor health but for crying out loud it's 2012 and we're having these turn of the century (19th to 20th century) debates. It's just mind boggling.

The problem is, conservative Christianity is stuck in the Puritan era* as much as radical Islam is stuck in the 7th century. And every time they go on a power trip, we get to have this conversation all over again.

* = the "Puritans" were actually not so pure, if you look at them. But uber-conservative Christians like to adhere to their idealized version.

72 Digital Display  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:01:55pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Display names are now visible in the LGF Spy for most types of events.

Is that you Charles? I mean..The Real Charles? Is that your display name or your real name? My Gawd I feel like I'm caught inside of a Pink Floyd song..
I'm laying in the grass Charles! Another brick in the Wall! What is to stop me from posting as Bill Clinton? What? You know what you have done don't you?
// hehehe

73 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:02:22pm

this is the year 2012, right?

depends on the color of the sky on your home planet

74 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:02:50pm

Given the gap between what the pope has to say on the issue and the way the American catholic population polls, I'd advise them (American Catholics) to contemplate taking a page out of King Henry the 8th's book and I don't mean to marry six different women...

75 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:02:52pm

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

76 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:03:16pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

Ah, welcome to the costume party. Masks are to your right.

77 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:03:52pm

re: #48 Lidane

[Video]

Appraise the Lord!

78 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:04:01pm

re: #34 Pamela Geller

more babies = more average people for the wealthy to exploit.

That isn't too far from the truth, considering 'Free Enterprise' requires a large poorly paid workforce.

79 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:04:02pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

I don't see anything wrong.

80 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:04:16pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

You can change your "display name" as often as you wish.

I'm not feeling clever enough to come up with something.

This is probably why is I have such a boring nic to begin with.

81 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:04:43pm

re: #76 El Fishbo

Sorry, my power supply went tits up last week. Clearly I missed something.

82 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:05:23pm

re: #81 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, my power supply went tits up last week. Clearly I missed something.

Silence!

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:05:44pm

re: #67 Gus

I am. Just all of this insanity like this contraception bologna and the CPAC/Vdare story. Then Santorum winning three states (I know the numbers are low compared to the overall population). I'd be fuming if I wasn't in such poor health but for crying out loud it's 2012 and we're having these turn of the century (19th to 20th century) debates. It's just mind boggling.

Sounds like we need...
Teddy to the Rescue!

84 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:06:17pm

I know I make a number of posts talking about "uber-conservative Christianity", but for those of you who don't know, I was born and raised in a Pentecostal family. I lived in a sheltered sub-culture with very little input from the outside world, effectively. I have a unique insight into how conservative Christian enclaves think and work.

85 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:06:38pm

re: #80 EmmmieG

You can change your "display name" as often as you wish.

I'm not feeling clever enough to come up with something.

This is probably why is I have such a boring nic to begin with.

I'm sticking with my plain name. If I start putting on vain new IDs, next you know it will be buttons and gay clothing.

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:07:35pm

I guess I changed my mind.

87 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:07:56pm

re: #81 Slumbering Behemoth

We've been doing some annoying experimentation with the new feature.

88 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:07:57pm

re: #80 EmmmieG

Okay. Odd feature. I've changed my avatar once since that was implemented.

I suppose I could change my nic to something more clever, but that would be out of character for me.

/DICK JOKES!!!

89 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:08:26pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

Snooze, You Lose. Or get seriously confused.

90 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:08:28pm

re: #88 Slumbering Behemoth

Okay. Odd feature. I've changed my avatar once since that was implemented.

I suppose I could change my nic to something more clever, but that would be out of character for me.

/DICK JOKES!!!

Charles can nuke it if things get entirely too out of hand.

91 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:10:15pm

Night all. Off to medicate the Feline Overlord and then get some sleep.

92 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:11:14pm

re: #81 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, my power supply went tits up last week. Clearly I missed something.

Did it go with a bang, or a whimper? When I've experienced PSU death, it's usually just been a matter of suddenly powering off and then either not coming back on at all, or doing so only for a short time, and intermittently.

However, the most recent one was actually pretty spectacular. Several VERY loud bangs as capacitors exploded, accompanied by brilliant blue sparks and the unmistakable smell of burned electronics. Astonishingly, it didn't take any other components with it when it went.

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:11:44pm

re: #90 El Fishbo

I imagine I'm the only one currently confused by this so... meh.

Shit happens on the interwebs when your comp goes down. Hmm... I suppose I should check my favorite pr0n political sites to see if anything else has changed since I've been off the net.

94 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:11:45pm

re: #71 El Fishbo

The problem is, conservative Christianity is stuck in the Puritan era* as much as radical Islam is stuck in the 7th century. And every time they go on a power trip, we get to have this conversation all over again.

* = the "Puritans" were actually not so pure, if you look at them. But uber-conservative Christians like to adhere to their idealized version.

Hey, in the real history, the bad guys were really really bad and the good guys were angelic.
Or saintly.

95 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:12:14pm

re: #92 negativ

I had a great deal of fun with my last PSU failure. I shut the computer down to install a new video card. When I went to power it back on, nothing. As it turns out, the PSU had accumulated dust, which was fine while it was running and the fan was operating, but when I shut it down, the fan stopped... And the dust-coated components overheated and something died.

96 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:12:21pm

re: #89 Bubblehead II

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

Snooze, You Lose. Or get seriously confused.

I always preferred the "key of imagination" version.

97 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:12:35pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

I imagine I'm the only one currently confused by this so... meh.

Shit happens on the interwebs when your comp goes down. Hmm... I suppose I should check my favorite pr0n political sites to see if anything else has changed since I've been off the net.

Quit yer whinin!

98 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:12:36pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

Only from your perspective.

99 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:13:25pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

I imagine I'm the only one currently confused by this so... meh.

Shit happens on the interwebs when your comp goes down. Hmm... I suppose I should check my favorite pr0n political sites to see if anything else has changed since I've been off the net.

If you hover your mouse over the nic, or click the avatar, you will uncloak the user's true identity.

100 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:13:48pm

re: #91 Dept of the Current Danger

Night all. Off to medicate the Feline Overlord and then get some sleep.

Feel lucky. I have four of them that I have placate. At 1630 every day.

101 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:13:55pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

See: Tech Note: Comments Now Show Your 'Display Name'

102 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:14:03pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

If you hover your cursor over a name you don't recognize, it will pop up the real poster's name.

103 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:14:29pm

re: #89 Bubblehead II

Or!

104 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:15:38pm

re: #92 negativ

Did it go with a bang, or a whimper? When I've experienced PSU death, it's usually just been a matter of suddenly powering off and then either not coming back on at all, or doing so only for a short time, and intermittently.

However, the most recent one was actually pretty spectacular. Several VERY loud bangs as capacitors exploded, accompanied by brilliant blue sparks and the unmistakable smell of burned electronics. Astonishingly, it didn't take any other components with it when it went.

I had a MoBo do that once. It was so cool.

105 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:15:49pm

re: #92 negativ

With barely even a whimper. I was updating some a/v software which had to restart the comp. It did not.

Then I put in a spare power supply... nuthin'.

Then I took the tower to a little a mom & pop that does free diagnostics. Both ps's were trashed.

Just got a new one. Yay.

On your ps bang? Never seen anything like that. Good thing it didn't screw anything else. I bet you panicked a little, eh?

107 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:17:31pm

re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth

With barely even a whimper. I was updating some a/v software which had to restart the comp. It did not.

Then I put in a spare power supply... nuthin'.

Then I took the tower to a little a mom & pop that does free diagnostics. Both ps's were trashed.

Just got a new one. Yay.

On your ps bang? Never seen anything like that. Good thing it didn't screw anything else. I bet you panicked a little, eh?

I've had two go.
One went with a meh.
The other scared the shit out of the cats.

108 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:17:35pm
109 darthstar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:18:23pm

re: #108 El Fishbo

Pushy, in-your-face Christians really piss me the heck off.

Oh, just shut up and accept Jesus already. Resistance is probably going to be against the law some day.
//

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:18:42pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

See: Tech Note: Comments Now Show Your 'Display Name'

Thanks. I'm just gonna pretend I don't know anyone, and stay on my best behavior.

/MOAR DICK JOKES!!!

111 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:18:51pm

Night Lizards, For real this time.

112 erik_t  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:19:10pm

re: #92 negativ

Did it go with a bang, or a whimper? When I've experienced PSU death, it's usually just been a matter of suddenly powering off and then either not coming back on at all, or doing so only for a short time, and intermittently.

However, the most recent one was actually pretty spectacular. Several VERY loud bangs as capacitors exploded, accompanied by brilliant blue sparks and the unmistakable smell of burned electronics. Astonishingly, it didn't take any other components with it when it went.

You never want to let out the magic smoke. The stuff's expensive, and hard as hell to wrangle back into those itty bitty metal jars.

113 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:19:17pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

I've had two go.
One went with a meh.
The other scared the shit out of the cats.

I've replaced dozens over the years, only one had a nicely exploded cap. In most cases the fuse went.

114 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:19:32pm

re: #109 darthstar

Oh, just shut up and accept Jesus already. Resistance is probably going to be against the law some day.
//

I'd say that I already did, but I'm pretty sure those idiots would argue that my Jesus and theirs aren't the same.

/I don't even get how that works

115 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:19:47pm

re: #106 darthstar

Rick Santorum sez: Happy Hanukkah, all you darkness walkers!

116 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:19:55pm

re: #112 erik_t

You never want to let out the magic smoke. The stuff's expensive, and hard as hell to wrangle back into those itty bitty metal jars.

Ahh. A golden oldie.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:19:59pm

re: #114 El Fishbo

I'd say that I already did, but I'm pretty sure those idiots would argue that my Jesus and theirs aren't the same.

/I don't even get how that works

I'm not so sure He's something you can own.

118 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:20:33pm

re: #117 Ooh, look, shiny...

I'm not so sure He's something you can own.

You must've missed the memo. His IPO was a couple of weeks back.

119 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:20:47pm

re: #106 darthstar

Nice passive-aggressive holiday greetings there.

"Happy Hanukkah. You're all going to Hell, BTW".

121 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:21:00pm

The USCCB seems to have preemptively rejected the Hawaii model as they refuse to even refer women to rider insurance:
[Link: www.religiondispatches.org...]

[A] key official in the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops says the Hawaii bill — repeatedly cited in media commentary — would not resolve the conference's concerns and would, in any case, be overridden by the federal rule.

"I've reviewed the Hawaii law, and it's not much of a compromise," said Richard Doerflinger of the USCCB Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities and the bishops' chief lobbyist on life issues in the nation's capital. "The Hawaii contraceptive mandate has many of the same features as the new federal mandate."

Like the federal rule, he said, the Hawaii bill "covers all FDA-approved 'contraceptives' (including drugs that can cause an abortion); and the religious exemption is very narrow (though it does not include the requirement that the religious organization serve only people of its own faith to be eligible).

"It adds an extra feature — the requirement that any religious organization that is exempt must still tell all enrollees how they may directly access contraceptive services and supplies in an expeditious manner."

In other words, the Catholic Church must directly send women to drugs and devices that are morally wrong and can do harm to them.

At the same time a bunch of conservative Democratic Senators + Joe Lieberman are signaling opposition:
[Link: www.politico.com...]

From that Politico article I count: Tim Kaine, Bob Casey, John Larson, Daniel Lipinski, Joe Manchin & Joe Lieberman.

As far as I know only a simple majority in both houses is needed to overturn new admin regulations (no veto?) but I'm assuming the vote can still be filibustered. It's too bad this issue isn't getting the same level of activism and outrage as the SGK/PP controversy, because if there's no pressure on the wavering senate Dems this may all just fall apart.

122 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:21:11pm

Contraception, really? This is the battlefield the right wants to be slain upon. What is this, 1954?

123 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:21:43pm

re: #75 Slumbering Behemoth

Alright, WTF? Did I miss an early April Fool's joke? Nics are all fubar.

All user names are now randomly generated twice daily. If you reply to somebody your username changes to the previous post of the one you replied to. If you Upding the same person three times in a 24 hour period you may take their nic of avatar but not both. Exceptions for those on the "bottom rated comments" list who will revert to their original nic and avatar with the descriptor "Stinks" added on. (eg. Killgore Trout Stinks, Slumbering Behemoth Stinks, etc) This will be permanent until you provide proof of gay marriage, publicly funded abortion or 10 hours community service at an OWS encampment. The "stinks" will be removed once proof is provided in the form of a marriage certificate, doctors note or drum circle recording.

124 Daniel T Boyd  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:22:41pm

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

125 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:24:08pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is not forcing anyone to use contraception.

126 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:24:26pm

re: #121 simoom

The USCCB seems to have preemptively rejected the Hawaii model as they refuse to even refer women to rider insurance:
[Link: www.religiondispatches.org...]

At the same time a bunch of conservative Democratic Senators + Joe Lieberman are signaling opposition:
[Link: www.politico.com...]

From that Politico article I count: Tim Kaine, Bob Casey, John Larson, Daniel Lipinski, Joe Manchin & Joe Lieberman.

As far as I know only a simple majority in both houses is needed to overturn new admin regulations (not veto?) but I'm assuming the vote can still be filibustered. It's too bad this issue isn't getting the same level of activism and outrage as the SGK/PP controversy, because if theirs no pressure on the wavering senate Dems this will all end up being for naught.

As with the PP cancer services issue, this is another example of an issue that does not exist if a national health funding system gets the employer out of the way.

127 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:24:32pm

Incoming.

128 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:24:39pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

The spare I had was sitting in my closet for nearly a year, but still in the plastic. When that one didn't work, I started sweating a little. I couldn't really spare the cash for a new power supply, but I knew I didn't have fade on a new mother board.

I was both pissed and relieved to learn my nearly new ps was toast as well.

129 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:24:40pm

re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth

On your ps bang? Never seen anything like that.

There are a lot more videos than you'd expect featuring people exploding capacitors on purpose. Cities outlaw firecrackers, so it's only natural to turn to far more dangerous forms of entertainment. Boys will be boys.

130 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:25:00pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

Yeah, no, that's not what's happening. The government is not forcing the Catholic Church to approve of contraception. Try again.

131 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:26:38pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

Right on!! Autonomy for Catholics and Sharia alike!!

132 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:26:43pm
Catholics use contraceptives at rates similar to the rest of Americans

At least those who can afford them.

133 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:26:57pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The problem is the Catholic church owns some pretty massive secular businesses that employ thousands of non-Catholics. Should 1/6th of the nation's health care providers be allowed to refuse their employees base-line benefits that the healthcare experts have determined are critical to a woman's health & her children's health?

134 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:27:40pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

...

135 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:27:52pm

We pay for part of our premiums, as I think a lot of companies benefits programs do. If the plans that the Catholic Hospitals are getting for their employers cost less without the contraceptives (and they should, logically), they should pass those savings on to the employees who can spend them as they please.

136 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:28:57pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

Just the opposite. The church wants the FedGov to violate the 1st Amendment by enshrining it's views as law, allowing them to force their view regardless of the views of their employees.

137 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:29:00pm

re: #127 Charles Johnson

Incoming.

I've yet to hear anyone say what penalty a non-complying Catholic institutional employer will face next year. Fine?, Imprisonment? Loss of funding? Comfy chair?

Anyone...

138 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:30:07pm

re: #137 Decatur Deb

I've yet to hear anyone say what penalty a non-complying Catholic institutional employer will face next year. Fine?, Imprisonment? Loss of funding? Comfy chair?

Anyone...

Silly hat tax.

139 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:30:22pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

If the Constitution is everything and in this case the Bible is everything, please show me where in the Bible it says "thou shall not use contraception".

140 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:32:20pm

re: #139 Gus

If the Constitution is everything and in this case the Bible is everything, please show me where in the Bible it says "thou shall not use contraception".

The usual defense is a passage which describes a man being killed by God over the practice of onanism, that is, employing the "pull-out method" to prevent conception. What ultra-conservative Christian scholars don't tell you about this incident is that the crime the man was guilty of was of refusing to carry on his brother's family line by siring an heir on the brother's widow, NOT the act of preventing conception.

141 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:32:49pm

Speaking of Fail, some idiot just posted this comment at my blog:

as a Jew I support Ron Paul NOT for his personal beliefs or who he is but simply based on his voting record and adherence to the constitution. if american jews want to send $ to Israel then they are free to do so. under an ideal ron paul presidency there would either be no IRS or our federal income taxes would be much lower allowing us to keep more of our $ which we can then give to Israel. Ron Paul is not going to do anything anti-semitic or racist if he becomes president. he doesn't believe in groups but rather individuals. ultimately, jews want more freedom and that's what a constitutional presidency, regardless if it's ron paul, would look like.

Ass a Chew for Ron Paul. What a doofus.

142 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:33:18pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

In that case, I expect you're okay with Catholic hospitals that withhold certain treatments on religious grounds being barred from receiving any public money. No Medicade / Medicare compensation, etc?

143 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:33:23pm

re: #140 El Fishbo

The usual defense is a passage which describes a man being killed by God over the practice of onanism, that is, employing the "pull-out method" to prevent conception. What ultra-conservative Christian scholars don't tell you about this incident is that the crime the man was guilty of was of refusing to carry on his brother's family line by siring an heir on the brother's widow, NOT the act of preventing conception.

That's some serious sibling rivalry.

144 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:34:05pm

The benefit of not having a working computer for a handful of days? It gave me the opportunity to reacquaint myself with broadcast television, and in turn remind me of why I hate that bitch sooo much.

145 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:34:09pm

re: #141 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Speaking of Fail, some idiot just posted this comment at my blog:

Ass a Chew for Ron Paul. What a doofus.

How new? And--that is a very beautiful baby, and I've seen a lot of babies.

146 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:34:14pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

U liek ron paul?

147 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:34:56pm

re: #140 El Fishbo

The usual defense is a passage which describes a man being killed by God over the practice of onanism, that is, employing the "pull-out method" to prevent conception. What ultra-conservative Christian scholars don't tell you about this incident is that the crime the man was guilty of was of refusing to carry on his brother's family line by siring an heir on the brother's widow, NOT the act of preventing conception.

Exactly. He refused to knock up his grieving sister-in-law, so now things like birth control and masturbation are considered sinful.

148 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:34:58pm

re: #145 Ooh, look, shiny...

How new? And--that is a very beautiful baby, and I've seen a lot of babies.

Yesterday morning. Li'l thing don't even have a name yet.

149 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:35:15pm

re: #139 Gus

If the Constitution is everything and in this case the Bible is everything, please show me where in the Bible it says "thou shall not use contraception".

There's an awful lot of religions that read the bible that have no problem with it.

150 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:36:14pm

re: #140 El Fishbo

The usual defense is a passage which describes a man being killed by God over the practice of onanism, that is, employing the "pull-out method" to prevent conception. What ultra-conservative Christian scholars don't tell you about this incident is that the crime the man was guilty of was of refusing to carry on his brother's family line by siring an heir on the brother's widow, NOT the act of preventing conception.

Which I find morally reprehensible. Unless of course it was something dependent of a primitive band or tribe of people in a small inhospitable environment. But that in fact was the basis of some of these writings -- from days gone by and primitive environments. Now, it's the 21st century.

151 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:36:23pm

re: #147 Lidane

Exactly. He refused to knock up his grieving sister-in-law, so now things like birth control and masturbation are considered sinful.

The point of that law was that children WERE your social security. No kids, no eat when you get old, so you gave her a child to support her in her old age.

152 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:36:40pm

In theory the Maine Senators could also be lobbied to oppose overturning the regulation, though it's rare to see long serving pols holding the line on old principles & positions these days:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

a 2001 bill co-sponsored by Republicans Sens. Olympia Snowe (ME), Susan Collins (ME), Lincoln Chafee (RI), Gordon Smith (OR), John Warner (VA), Arlen Specter (PA) — S. 104 — sought to establish parity for contraceptive prescriptions within the context of coverage already guaranteed by insurance plans, but offered no opt-out clause for religious groups who opposed contraception.

...

“Women shouldn’t be held hostage by virtue of where they live,” Snowe told a Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee hearing in September of 2001. “It simply is not fair.” “All we’re saying in this legislation is that if health insurance plans provide coverage for prescription drugs that that coverage has to extend to FDA-approved prescription contraceptives. It’s that simple.”

153 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:36:51pm

re: #150 Gus

Which I find morally reprehensible. Unless of course it was something dependent of a primitive band or tribe of people in a small inhospitable environment. But that in fact was the basis of some of these writings -- from days gone by and primitive environments. Now, it's the 21st century.

See re: #151 Ooh, look, shiny....

154 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:37:13pm

I know what you're thinking SB. I can read minds! Yes, there might be an exception.

//

155 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:37:16pm

re: #151 Ooh, look, shiny...

The point of that law was that children WERE your social security. No kids, no eat when you get old, so you gave her a child to support her in her old age.

The practice of marrying a brother's widow was to carry on the tribal lineage, for inheritance purposes.

156 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:37:55pm

re: #151 Ooh, look, shiny...

The point of that law was that children WERE your social security. No kids, no eat when you get old, so you gave her a child to support her in her old age.

Yeah, but who supported her while she raised those kids that were supposed to take care of her in her old age? It's not like women had a lot of options back then.

157 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:38:43pm

re: #156 Lidane

Yeah, but who supported her while she raised those kids that were supposed to take care of her in her old age? It's not like women had a lot of options back then.

Her brother-in-law who married her was obligated to support her.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:39:44pm

re: #154 Gus

I know what you're thinking SB. I can read minds! Yes, there might be an exception.

//

That's not mind reading, that's cold reading. Hell, a drunken Amish invalid could cold read that.

159 funky chicken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:40:11pm

re: #8 Femanazi forever

Our MOTHERS went through this shit. I cannot believe we are going to re-live it in 2012.

The fundies are in control. To the detriment of any uneducated American.

I am really pissed.

The fundies are in control of the GOP. Expect to see a widening of the gender gap in the 2012 election if they keep it up.

I'm not sure what Mark Shields is talking about, and can't imagine why any liberal would oppose including contraception in a health care plan. It's not forced contraception or sterilization...

160 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:40:40pm

re: #158 Slumbering Behemoth

That's not mind reading, that's cold reading. Hell, a drunken Amish invalid could cold read that.

Isn't that what happened?

161 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:41:56pm

I for one am glad we've moved on beyond the tribal stage.

//

162 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:42:29pm

re: #161 Gus

I for one am glad we've moved on beyond the tribal stage.

//

This my boar.
You go kill other boar.
RAWR!

163 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:42:36pm

re: #161 Gus

I for one am glad we've moved on beyond the tribal stage.

//

All the world's a stage.

Ook, ook.

164 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:43:00pm

re: #161 Gus

I for one am glad we've moved on beyond the tribal stage.

//

We have? Good luck convincing the neanderthals on the far right.

/Oh wait, they don't believe in neanderthals, do they?

165 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:43:14pm

re: #157 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Her brother-in-law who married her was obligated to support her.

Which would have made sense thousands of years ago. These days? Not so much. At least IMO.

166 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:43:18pm

re: #145 Ooh, look, shiny...

How new? And--that is a very beautiful baby, and I've seen a lot of babies.

Yes, a very beautiful baby! Congratulations!

167 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:44:13pm

Someone quoted here, or on another blog, a survey that shows a large number of Catholic institutions' insurance packages already include contraception--anyone have it handy? (Too lame and lazy for a google safari this time of night.)

168 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:44:17pm

re: #162 Varek Raith

This my boar.
You go kill other boar.
RAWR!

Once boar dead eat boar stomach contents and sleep inside boar guts for 30 suns. It is written. Those who disobey will be burned upon the stake of Chelada wood.

//

169 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:45:11pm

re: #159 funky chicken

I'm not sure what Mark Shields is talking about, and can't imagine why any liberal would oppose including contraception in a health care plan. It's not forced contraception or sterilization...

Mark Shields is talking out of his ass, like always. The Dems that are rebelling are the usual Blue Dog suspects and Joe Lieberman.

Most people actually see the concept of a birth control coverage mandate for their health insurance and think it's a good thing. Unless you're the Catholic Church.

170 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:45:18pm

re: #168 Gus

Once boar dead eat boar stomach contents and sleep inside boar guts for 30 suns. It is written. Those who disobey will be burned upon the stake of Chelada wood.

//

And I thought they smelled bad on the outside.

172 Stanghazi  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:48:58pm

re: #167 Decatur Deb

Someone quoted here, or on another blog, a survey that shows a large number of Catholic institution's insurance packages already include contraception--anyone have it handy? (Too lame and lazy for a google safari this time of night.)

I don't know, but probably.

Birth Control: It's the new GOP shiny thing. They are such idiots.

President Obama took away, like the road runner, the usual, lazy GOP counter of the Dems are weak on defense.

They are freaking out.

173 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:49:05pm

re: #161 Gus

I for one am glad we've moved on beyond the tribal stage.

//

At one time tribalism was an evolutionary stable strategy.

174 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:50:24pm

More than Twenty Major Religious Leaders Issue Statement in Support of Current Policy on Contraceptive Coverage in Healthcare Reform

Jon O’Brien, one of the signatories to the letter, said, “Too often, religious voices are written off when it comes to support for reproductive rights issues. Today, this letter shows what those of us who work in the field know only too well. Some of the strongest supporters for family planning are in the religious community. We know that the vast majority of all American women use and support access to family planning, including 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women. The loudest voices in the Catholic community are those of the priests and bishops who know that they are being ignored when it comes to their teachings on family planning. They may be the loudest, but we know they also represent a tiny minority of Catholics.”

175 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:51:03pm

re: #164 El Fishbo

We have? Good luck convincing the neanderthals on the far right.

/Oh wait, they don't believe in neanderthals, do they?

Neanderthals had large brains.
They don't care if the far right believes in them.

176 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:51:14pm

re: #173 Just Scroll on By

At one time tribalism was an evolutionary stable strategy.

Right. But not anymore. Or that itself has evolved into different forms. Not much has changed unfortunately which is why I joked this morning that we're living in the Wild West with high tech gadgets.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:52:40pm

re: #7 Robert O.

I generally use CE (Common Era) as opposed to AD these days - if only to stick a middle finger at the religious right who wage these culture wars. I also find it more proper usage: why should, say, the Jews, the Chinese, the Indians (etc) accept having their timeline measured relative to the birth of a "domini" they don't believe in, when it is most likely the wrong date anyway.

I kind of shrug on that one. We're still counting from the posited year of Jesus's birth no matter what we call it. The commonality of that 'common era' is pretty suspect.

178 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:53:08pm

re: #167 Decatur Deb

Someone quoted here, or on another blog, a survey that shows a large number of Catholic institutions' insurance packages already include contraception--anyone have it handy? (Too lame and lazy for a google safari this time of night.)

Yeah, this whole thing definitely has the feel of the USCCB grabbing the opportunity to try and relitigate a fight they'd already partially lost, in a number of their orgs & in a number of states, years ago.

179 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:54:01pm

re: #176 Gus

Right. But not anymore. Or that itself has evolved into different forms. Not much has changed unfortunately which is why I joked this morning that we're living in the Wild West with high tech gadgets.

Tribalism is now destabilizing our growth as a species.

180 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:54:36pm

Number of dead has passed 8,000 in Syria.

I don't suppose that it is possible for the US, UK, and France to block any action from the Security Council, and encourage Turkey to attack, and try and convince Sweden & Norway to join Turkey.

Call it the Lutefisk Janissary option.

181 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:56:37pm

re: #180 ProGunLiberal

Given the way Janissarys were recruited, that brings up some bad history.

182 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:58:26pm

re: #181 Obdicut

I don't not know how else to create a cutesy name for it.

183 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:58:56pm

I can see it now though. Some freaking 20 to 30 something wingnut player suddenly being against contraception. "Yes, it's against my religion. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go to the club and pick up some babes." Uh huh.

184 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 7:59:10pm

re: #182 ProGunLiberal

I don't not know how else to create a cutesy name for it.

Large-scale military actions can probably do without cutesy names in the end.

Operation Fluffy Pillow Pony Heaven will just have to be shelved.

185 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:00:08pm

re: #182 ProGunLiberal

I don't not know how else to create a cutesy name for it.

The Oslo Ottomans?

186 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:00:11pm

re: #183 Gus

They're just against paying for it. Obviously, if the woman is going to make a big deal about it, she ought to be paying for the pill out of her own pocket and not have it covered by insurance because women are evil and we need to make them feel bad about sex.

187 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:00:11pm

re: #184 Obdicut

Large-scale military actions can probably do without cutesy names in the end.

Operation Fluffy Pillow Pony Heaven will just have to be shelved.

Only because you forgot the unicorn.

188 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:00:19pm

And all the right wing guys are celibate and only practice fucking for procreation's sake. In fact they don't even masturbate. It's "against their faith." Uh huh.

189 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:00:22pm

re: #184 Obdicut

What I mean is, a name showing the Turkish and Scandinavian Nature.

190 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:01:05pm

re: #184 Obdicut

Operation Fluffy Pillow Pony Heaven will just have to be shelved.

Bah! And I was sooo looking forward to the inherent bloodlust such an operational title would engender.

191 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:01:23pm

re: #189 ProGunLiberal

What I mean is, a name showing the Turkish and Scandinavian Nature.

Oh, that's easy.

Varangian Guard

192 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:02:11pm

re: #191 Obdicut

That's Greek. Not Turkish.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:02:17pm

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

I've honestly given this a great deal of thought in the last couple of weeks, since I myself have worked for Catholic agencies and been put through this.

I don't believe that the Catholic Church is being asked to violate its tenets by providing full health coverage to its employees. This is simply because my health coverage is part of my salary. It is not theirs, it is mine, and when I pay for birth control, it should not matter to my employers if I do so with my health coverage, or the money that they pay me.

If they wanted to refuse to hire persons using birth control, I might actually think they had a point, but this doesn't fly with me.

194 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:02:44pm

re: #189 ProGunLiberal

What I mean is, a name showing the Turkish and Scandinavian Nature.

The Arby's Turkey and Swiss Brigade?

195 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:03:09pm

re: #186 Obdicut

They're just against paying for it. Obviously, if the woman is going to make a big deal about it, she ought to be paying for the pill out of her own pocket and not have it covered by insurance because women are evil and we need to make them feel bad about sex.

They're using the same excuse to reject contraception as they do gay marriage, religious freedom, when in reality it's simply another way to stave off their impending reduction of unearned privilege.

196 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:03:31pm

re: #194 Kragar

The Turkey and Lutefisk Sandwich?

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:03:49pm

re: #140 El Fishbo

The usual defense is a passage which describes a man being killed by God over the practice of onanism, that is, employing the "pull-out method" to prevent conception. What ultra-conservative Christian scholars don't tell you about this incident is that the crime the man was guilty of was of refusing to carry on his brother's family line by siring an heir on the brother's widow, NOT the act of preventing conception.

Poor old Onan. No other man mentioned in the Bible has had so many parakeets named after him.

198 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:03:52pm

re: #192 ProGunLiberal

That's Greek. Not Turkish.

It's Byzantine, which, last time I checked, was in Turkey.

199 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:05:19pm

re: #196 ProGunLiberal

The Turkey and Lutefisk Sandwich?

May you share an Ever Burning prison cell with Rachael Ray for putting that image in my mind.
///

200 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:06:08pm

re: #199 Slumbering Behemoth

Imagine if the turkey had also been preserved in lye.

201 b_Snark  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:06:20pm

G'night folks, I'm off to read a little Dawkins or Diamond.

202 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:08:44pm

Turkefisk.

203 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:09:04pm

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

204 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:09:20pm

re: #202 jaunte

Turkefisk.

Pretty sure there's a level of hell just for people like you.

205 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:09:36pm

re: #200 Obdicut

Heresy! Blasphemy! Sodomy!

206 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:10:37pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

If they wanted to refuse to hire persons using birth control, I might actually think they had a point, but this doesn't fly with me.

It's hard to run a first class hospital, or school for that matter, without employing non-Catholics in key positions. The Church wants it both ways, to reap the benefits of inclusive hiring practices, to take credit for the wide ranging expertise and skills provided by such a policy, while still imposing certain doctrinal restrictions on their non-Catholic employees.

207 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:11:01pm

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

They're not.

Insurance plans have to cover it for their secular employees.

It's pretty common sense.

208 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:12:03pm

We all saw the piecaken recipe?

That's the opposite of Turkefisk.

[Link: community.tasteofhome.com...]

209 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:12:13pm

I followed this latest turkey/fish exchange back. Wow, talk about letting your mind roam....

210 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:13:08pm

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

Santorum is for banning contraception, and he is apparently credible enough to have won three Republican state contests yesterday.

211 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:13:28pm

If those religious organizations are being forced to offer insurance plans with contraception then of course they having to pay for it.

212 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:13:57pm

The whole 'they shouldn't be forced to pay for it' logic could be extended to ban any employee of a Catholic hospital from purchasing contraceptives with their paycheck. It's the same damn thing.

So crazy. Contraceptives are not controversial. Even among Catholics. Among the Catholic Hierarchy it is, because they're divorced from reality.

213 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:14:08pm

re: #211 brandoncraig

If those religious organizations are being forced to offer insurance plans with contraception then of course they having to pay for it.

Huh?

214 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:14:57pm

re: #211 brandoncraig

If those religious organizations are being forced to offer insurance plans with contraception then of course they having to pay for it.

The insurance is a benefit provided to the employee, just like a paycheck. Do you think the church ought to be able to forbid them buying contraceptives with their paychecks?

215 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:15:00pm

re: #210 goddamnedfrank

Santorum is for banning contraception, and he is apparently credible enough to have won three Republican state contests yesterday.

You do know that Mitt Romney was not legally allowed in Missouri until 1976?

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:15:06pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

It's hard to run a first class hospital, or school for that matter, without employing non-Catholics in key positions. The Church want's it both ways, to reap the benefits of inclusive hiring practices, to take credit for the wide ranging expertise and skills provided by such a policy, while still imposing certain doctrinal restrictions on their non-Catholic employees.

They used to do it with nuns. Screwed that one right up, didn't they?

217 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:16:39pm

re: #212 Obdicut

Among the Catholic Hierarchy it is, because they're divorced from reality.

We're talking about the same people who think that moving a sexual predator from parish to parish solves the problem. And that staying celibate and unmarried gives them insight into human sexuality.

218 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:16:55pm

I think it is a huge leap to say that the Catholic church not wanting to pay for something in an insurance package is the same as them trying to dictate how an employee spends their money.

No one is forced to work for a Catholic organization.

219 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:16:57pm

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning organized religion but I understand the viewpoint that secular citizens who don't believe in it (no matter how right that religion might be) should not be forced by the federal government to subsidize it, in the form of tax exemptions, for the benefit of the religious hierarchy. Even when said wealthy, privileged, powerful hierarchy tries so very hard to influence the policy of a secular government.
///

220 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:17:23pm

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

How would they be paying "for it for other people" if it's an insurance policy they're already either paying for or is considered part of the compensation package? These women, yes women and not men, are paying for this insurance coverage. Yet all insurance programs are part of a collective so everyone is effectively paying into coverage for everyone else.

221 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:17:51pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

They used to do it with nuns. Screwed that one right up, didn't they?

Not really. Prior to the 1960's it actually worked quite well. The problem was that a life religious devotion lost much of its appeal in those years.

222 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:18:21pm

re: #218 brandoncraig

I think it is a huge leap to say that the Catholic church not wanting to pay for something in an insurance package is the same as them trying to dictate how an employee spends their money.
.

Instead of just thinking it, why not demonstrate it?

Catholic Church pays for health insurance. Employee gets contraceptives through health insurance.

Catholic church pays employee paycheck. Employee uses money to buy contraceptives.

Explain how those are miles away from each other.

223 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:18:55pm

re: #211 brandoncraig

If those religious organizations are being forced to offer insurance plans with contraception then of course they having to pay for it.

They are not being forced to run hospitals and other institutions, and not really forced to buy any insurance for anyone. They can keep their conscience clean by sticking to their soul-saving.

224 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:19:53pm

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

Some people, religious ones, don't believe in blood transfusions. If they own a business that has insured employees should they be allowed to dictate that their insurance doesn't cover anything related to blood transfusion?

Some people don't believe one should eat pork. Should they be allowed to deny insurance coverage in any treatment place that served pork on the menu?

225 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:19:58pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

Which is what they've shockingly chosen to do with adoption services, rather than let the evil gays get their hands on any children to love and cherish.

226 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:20:25pm

Once someone has paid me for the work that I have contracted with them to provide then it is none of their business how I spend my money.

227 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:20:42pm

re: #218 brandoncraig

I think it is a huge leap to say that the Catholic church not wanting to pay for something in an insurance package is the same as them trying to dictate how an employee spends their money.

No one is forced to work for a Catholic organization.

Concur. Perhaps a compromise could be reached. How about requiring the insurance companies that sell to religious institutions offer a low-cost contraceptive 'bolt-on' that employees can pay for out-of pocket. That means the church is no longer paying for it, which would remove the practical objection.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:20:59pm

re: #211 brandoncraig

If those religious organizations are being forced to offer insurance plans with contraception then of course they having to pay for it.

One thing to understand is that when I worked for the Diocese of Oakland, and then for the Salesians, they paid for my GYN, who prescribed my birth control. The only thing they did which differed from a secular employer was that instead of a co-pay, I paid full freight at the counter for the pills. With money paid to me by the Diocese, or by the Salesian.

I'm sincerely trying to figure out the precise line that's being crossed when I can have the pills through a co-pay. So far I have nothing.

I am deeply curious to know whether they actually got a discount from Kaiser as a result of their restrictions. I suspect not.

229 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:21:03pm

re: #224 Red Sea Desjardini Tang

Some religions believe in sex segregation, so should they be able to dictate that their health insurance plans make sure men are only attended by male doctors and nurses, etc.

230 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:21:28pm

re: #226 brandoncraig

Once someone has paid me for the work that I have contracted with them to provide then it is none of their business how I spend my money.

And once someone has given you health insurance it's no business of theirs how you use that health insurance, eh?

231 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:21:37pm

re: #226 brandoncraig

Once someone has paid me for the work that I have contracted with them to provide then it is none of their business how I spend my money.

What does that have to do with this issue?

232 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:21:57pm

re: #215 Ooh, look, shiny...

You do know that Mitt Romney was not legally allowed in Missouri until 1976?

No, I didn't. That's interesting, still he also lost in a huge blowout in Minnesota, where he had Pawlenty's endorsement. I see where you're going with this though, and I agree that religious intolerance towards Mormons from evangelicals is rearing it's ugly head in the GOP contest.

The case that Romney's going to have to make at the convention is how he deserves the nomination if in the end his delegate count rests on wins in toss up states like Florida, and large solidly blue states like California, Oregon, and Washington that he simply cannot take in the general.

233 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:22:23pm

Why don't they just give people $750 of the $1,000 it costs to insure a family to spend on expenses each month in a FSA, and use the $250 to buy catastrophic coverage, which would of course not cover contraception.

Let the people take it on their own souls how they spend the money.

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:23:11pm

re: #218 brandoncraig

I think it is a huge leap to say that the Catholic church not wanting to pay for something in an insurance package is the same as them trying to dictate how an employee spends their money.

No one is forced to work for a Catholic organization.

Is it a huge leap? As someone who's worked for Catholic organizations, I am not sure about that.

235 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:23:30pm

re: #231 Gus

That was my answer to post 222.

236 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:23:43pm

re: #231 Gus

What does that have to do with this issue?

why even entertain this guy

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:24:09pm

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

Not really. Prior to the 1960's it actually worked quite well. The problem was that a life religious devotion lost much of its appeal in those years.

That was sort of my point. They couldn't keep the recruitment numbers up. Some of that is that the world changed, but I think it could have been different if they'd bothered to support the orders.

238 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:24:34pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

Concur. Perhaps a compromise could be reached. How about requiring the insurance companies that sell to religious institutions offer a low-cost contraceptive 'bolt-on' that employees can pay for out-of pocket. That means the church is no longer paying for it, which would remove the practical objection.

Yes, the employer could then pretend to add a little bit to the employee's salary to compensate and the net effect is the same, (wink wink, as Monty Python would say).

How fucking ridiculous.

239 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:24:49pm

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

Not really. Prior to the 1960's it actually worked quite well. The problem was that a life religious devotion lost much of its appeal in those years.

Yeah. Part of that was the Church's refusal to listen to its members. Lay Catholics back in the 1960's were clamoring for The Pill because they saw it as a godsend. They wouldn't have to rely on the wholly unreliable pull-out method anymore and could have normal lives.

After Humanae Vitae, religious orders and attendance dropped a lot. And even people who stayed largely ignored the Church on birth control because they thought it was an unreasonable, stupid policy.

240 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:25:12pm

re: #218 brandoncraig

It is against my church's teachings to provide medical care for children, therefore the highly profitable, tax exempt organization that hides behind my church's teachings is possessed of a constitutional right to deny offering its employees access to health insurance that covers their offspring.
///

241 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:25:17pm

The Catholic bishops are trying to bully forward through politics an anti-contraceptive policy that they have failed to sell to their own parishioners.

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:25:17pm

re: #226 brandoncraig

Once someone has paid me for the work that I have contracted with them to provide then it is none of their business how I spend my money.

Once someone has paid me for the work I have contracted to provide, in part with health coverage, then it is none of the business how I use my health coverage.

This is the sticking point for me. That health coverage is MINE. Not theirs.

243 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:26:00pm

Keep proselytizing out of the hospitals, pharmacies and adoption agencies.

244 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:27:35pm

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

Once someone has paid me for the work I have contracted to provide, in part with health coverage, then it is none of the business how I use my health coverage.

This is the sticking point for me. That health coverage is MINE. Not theirs.

I would agree with you on that point 100%. But I can understand the viewpoint that the government shouldn't be dictating what is provided in the insurance package.

Why shouldn't that be between the employer and the employee. The best employees will go to the employers that provide the best compensation.

245 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:27:36pm

re: #238 Red Sea Desjardini Tang

Yes, the employer could then pretend to add a little bit to the employee's salary to compensate and the net effect is the same, (wink wink, as Monty Python would say).

How fucking ridiculous.

So let it be ridiculous if that settles things down. Some additional BS is fine to keep people from becoming enraged. Peace is made in such ways.

246 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:27:50pm

re: #241 jaunte

The Catholic bishops are trying to bully forward through politics an anti-contraceptive policy that they have failed to sell to their own parishioners.

Nice tax exempt status you have there.
Be a shame if something were to happen to it.
;)

247 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:27:58pm

This is already a law in 28 states with 8 states having no exemption:

Eight states have no exemption – so Catholic employers in Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Montana, New Hampshire, Texas, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin must provide contraception coverage under state laws.

From Catholic Contraception Controversy: The State Of Pay

And that includes the states of Texas and Georgia. Texas has this law. Texas!

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:28:21pm

I think that one of my problems with this is simply that the issue with the coverage never seemed very well thought out.

249 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:28:24pm

The idiocy is that the country has somehow decided, over generations, that employers ought to be involved in people's health choices.

250 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:28:42pm

re: #243 Varek Raith

Keep proselytizing out of the hospitals, pharmacies and adoption agencies.

This, if your religious beliefs think contraception is wrong, then maybe you shouldn't be a pharmacist. And I have to say I feel zero sympathy for the orphenges that choose to close down due to states frowning on agencies that refuse to allow gay couples to adopt.

251 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:30:11pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

More proof that some people's egos are more important to them than taking care of children.

252 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:30:48pm

And don't you see the logic here? If you're an insurance company you pay for contraception that can save you billions. It saves the insurance companies the costs of pre and post natal care, OBGYN, birthing costs, complications, and even abortion costs. Contraception prevents or reduces these liabilities. The savings to society and the private sector are massive. And those same costs would be saved by Catholic hospitals.

253 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:31:46pm

Wonder if those same institutions have plans that cover viagra...

254 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:32:29pm

Speaking as someone who comes from a large extended Catholic family, I think the church needs to grow up on birth control. I don't believe in forcing people to use birth control and I equally don't believe in forcing people not to. The church is gonna continue to lose parishioners if they keep up with this. My grandmother, eight pregnancies and all, sister of a priest, mother of five children excluding my Dad who graduated from Catholic high schools, etc felt forced to leave the church due to stuff like this.

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:32:44pm

re: #253 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Wonder if those same institutions have plans that cover viagra...

Yes. Which is not hypocritical--except that they don't care if you're married or not.

256 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:32:47pm

I think it's rather simple. It also prevents abortions.

257 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:33:16pm

re: #244 brandoncraig

Why shouldn't that be between the employer and the employee. The best employees will go to the employers that provide the best compensation.

Because the pill lowers the risk of endometrial cancer, excessive bleeding and other health effects specific to women. In other words the pill is prophylaxis for more than just pregnancy. By singling women out and saying that a specific, legitimate health need of theirs won't be covered, these institutions are violating the 14th amendment's equal protection clause as it relates to employment law.

258 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:33:19pm

re: #251 jaunte

More proof that some people's egos are more important than taking care of children.

Totally. Gingrich likes to make them out ot be the victims on the campaign stump but the real victims of that are kids who could be going to loving families.

259 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:34:03pm

re: #236 windupbird is in the gravity well

why even entertain this guy

Once a Catholic...

//

260 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:35:06pm

Be really nice if the Church put as much effort into preventing it's priests from raping little boys as they have this.

261 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:36:17pm

re: #260 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Be really nice if the Church put as much effort into preventing it's priests from raping little boys as they have this.

Yeah no kidding. The church's priorities are totally skewed IMO.

262 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:36:57pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

The Church's unreasonable and stupid attitudes about sex, women, and birth control were big reasons why I left when I was 18. They're just so backwards in so many ways. I mean, birth control lowers the abortion rate because it prevents an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. That's a GOOD thing, yet they think it's evil. WTF.

I grew up Catholic, did the whole sacrament song and dance up to Confirmation, then when I left home, that was that. Haven't set foot in a church except for weddings, funerals, and the occasional service with my mother since then, and when I *do* go, I just quietly go through the motions and don't pray or recite the Mass. Thanks, but no. I'll stick to being a heathen.

263 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:37:27pm

The sweet part is that if Santorum or Gingrich somehow got the TPGOP nomination, the bishops' blatant involvement in presidential politics would blow up in the Catholic nominee's face.

264 brandoncraig  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:37:32pm

Of course, I don't think one's health insurance should be tied into where one works.

I think it should be similar to education. The government should provide health insurance for everyone who wants it. Those who want private insurance can pay for it if they think it will provide better coverage.

266 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:38:15pm

Another way to put it is as an insurance company you compare the costs of pregnancy with contraception. The latter is the cheapest. It's also in the interest of even Catholic organizations to keep insurance companies profitable. I would argue that in fact their are free-market arguments in defense of this policy and it makes good capitalist sense.

267 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:38:32pm

re: #241 jaunte

The Catholic bishops are trying to bully forward through politics an anti-contraceptive policy that they have failed to sell to their own parishioners.

Unfortunately, at least so far, they seem to have the beltway pundit class on their side. That can be an extremely valuable echo chamber, especially when they mostly refuse to even cover the details. There just seems to be a whole lot of Catholic men among tv pundits, who seem generally progressive, but on this issue are siding heavily with the church. The Brooks & Shields discussion on the PBS news hour for example:
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

Shields, representing the left, refused to describe what was at issue or make a case for the policy. Instead it was all, "the fallout is cataclysmic" -- "I say this as a Catholic" -- "a policy that I think is, quite frankly, indefensible" -- "I honestly don't know why they did it" -- "dissing Catholics."

268 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:39:58pm

According to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Wikipedia, bestiality is completely legal in 16 states. WHY WON'T THE GOP ANSWER THIS ASSAULT ON TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE?

269 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:40:06pm

re: #267 simoom

Those guys are definitely out of touch with the female majority.

270 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:40:17pm

re: #262 Lidane

The Church's unreasonable and stupid attitudes about sex, women, and birth control were big reasons why I left when I was 18. They're just so backwards in so many ways. I mean, birth control lowers the abortion rate because it prevents an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. That's a GOOD thing, yet they think it's evil. WTF.

I grew up Catholic, did the whole sacrament song and dance up to Confirmation, then when I left home, that was that. Haven't set foot in a church except for weddings, funerals, and the occasional service with my mother since then, and when I *do* go, I just quietly go through the motions and don't pray or recite the Mass. Thanks, but no. I'll stick to being a heathen.

I never felt I belong honest. Some of my neighbors growing up were really hardcore socially conservative Catholics. Abortion always wrong blah blah even to the point where these guys would brag about taunting people at the abortion clinic. There was a period where I was later pro life but thinking about that still disgusted me just as much as it does being pro choice.

271 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:40:33pm

Colbert just reapplied the google definition of "Santorum".

272 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:40:50pm

re: #262 Lidane

You need to start pumping out babies!!!

273 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:41:15pm

re: #263 Decatur Deb

The sweet part is that if Santorum or Gingrich somehow got the TPGOP nomination, the bishops' blatant involvement in presidential politics would blow up in the Catholic nominee's face.

Maybe, but maybe not. I depends on how Catholics come down on this. If they support their clergy, then Obama is in major trouble.

274 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:41:16pm

re: #269 jaunte

Those guys are definitely out of touch with the female majority.

The same thing seems to be playing out in the Senate. All the democratic defections so far (excepting Joe Lieberman) are moderate/conservative Catholic men.

275 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:41:46pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that one of my problems with this is simply that the issue with the coverage never seemed very well thought out.

I feel the same way about my retirement fund at work. If I don't take advantage of the program, I lose out on 5% on my potential income. If I do, I'm paying stupidly high management fees to invest with a company I'm not particularly a fan of. Part of me wishes compensation was set at "cash only" by law.

276 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:42:01pm

I say this because odds are that if contraception fails there might be a lower chance of abortion with said group. Now. If we consider that than there are additional costs to the organization which contraception can save. Maternity leave, sick leave, child care, additions to the insurance policies with the new birth, etc.

277 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:42:49pm

re: #275 McSpiff

On the other hand, vacation days..

278 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:42:56pm

re: #229 Obdicut

Some religions believe in sex segregation, so should they be able to dictate that their health insurance plans make sure men are only attended by male doctors and nurses, etc.

That was on my list, but thank you for adding.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:43:18pm

re: #273 Dark_Falcon

Maybe, but maybe not. I depends on how Catholics come down on this. If they support their clergy, then Obama is in major trouble.

American Catholics won't fall into line on this one, that's my strongest prediction.

280 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:43:21pm

Or. You pay out the 50 bucks a month and avoid all that. Planned pregnancies will remain unchanged.

Think about it.

281 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:43:26pm

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

So let it be ridiculous if that settles things down. Some additional BS is fine to keep people from becoming enraged. Peace is made in such ways.

I concur, reluctantly.

282 Petero1818  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:44:09pm

re: #264 brandoncraig

Of course, I don't think one's health insurance should be tied into where one works.

I think it should be similar to education. The government should provide health insurance for everyone who wants it. Those who want private insurance can pay for it if they think it will provide better coverage.

As it essentially is in Canada. Interestingly in Canada, birth control is not a covered item, as is the case with most prescriptions (unless you are over 65). Abortion is however covered in Canada by the government. If you are under 65 and want your medicine covered (the pill) you need private insurance that covers that. The one caveat is that generally prescriptions in Canada are a fraction of US prices so the pill is roughly $12-15 per month from social services providers.

283 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:44:28pm

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

American Catholics won't fall into line on this one, that's my strongest prediction.

Agree.

284 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:45:01pm

re: #271 Decatur Deb

Colbert just reapplied the google definition of "Santorum".

Colbert can go fuck himself. That "definition" is rotten, as it casts aspersions against an entire extended family. Hell, it also applies to both Rick Santorum's children (some of whom are in school and may suffer greatly from this 'definition') and to the children of his two siblings. Why should all those people be maligned solely to cast a juvenile insult at man?

285 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:45:10pm

re: #273 Dark_Falcon

Maybe, but maybe not. I depends on how Catholics come down on this. If they support their clergy, then Obama is in major trouble.

Polls show that US Catholics don't support their clergy in this matter, so you're presenting a what if scenario that is not grounded in observable reality.

286 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:45:57pm

re: #280 Gus

Or. You pay out the 50 bucks a month and avoid all that. Planned pregnancies will remain unchanged.

Think about it.

But as I said earlier, the costs are considerably more than that because the doctors have to be paid for exams and prescriptions as well, which is where Planned Parenthood save the day for many who can't afford the overheads.

287 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:46:11pm

re: #282 Petero1818

As it essentially is in Canada. Interestingly in Canada, birth control is not a covered item, as is the case with most prescriptions (unless you are over 65). Abortion is however covered in Canada by the government. If you are under 65 and want your medicine covered (the pill) you need private insurance that covers that. The one caveat is that generally prescriptions in Canada are a fraction of US prices so the pill is roughly $12-15 per month from social services providers.

The pill is frequently (if not always) covered by private insurance provided by employers in Canada.

Edit: woops, I assumed you meant 'individual' insurance by private but I think I misread you

288 Petero1818  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:46:55pm

re: #287 McSpiff

The pill is frequently (if not always) covered by private insurance provided by employers in Canada.

Which is exactly what I wrote.

289 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:46:56pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Colbert can go fuck himself. That "definition" is rotten, as it casts aspersions against an entire extended family. Hell, it also applies to both Rick Santorum's children (some of whom are in school and may suffer greatly from this 'definition') and to the children of his two siblings. Why should all those people be maligned solely to cast a juvenile insult at man?

Why should all gays be equated with child molesters and goat fuckers? Rick Santorum owns the wrath he brought down on his name.

290 McSpiff  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:47:29pm

re: #288 Petero1818

Which is exactly what I wrote.

See my edit.

291 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:48:54pm

re: #289 goddamnedfrank

Why should all gays be equated with child molesters and goat fuckers? Rick Santorum owns the wrath he brought down on his name.

Have to agree. It may be a little juvenile but it's nowhere near the vile shit Santorum says about gay and lesbian Americans to get votes. Remember this is the man who compared gay sex to beastility. He's earned the scorn he's gotten. Oh and Colbert is a comedian, Santorum meanwhile is a serious contender for president.

292 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:49:09pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Colbert can go fuck himself. That "definition" is rotten, as it casts aspersions against an entire extended family. Hell, it also applies to both Rick Santorum's children (some of whom are in school and may suffer greatly from this 'definition') and to the children of his two siblings. Why should all those people be maligned solely to cast a juvenile insult at man?

To keep the Holy Office in Rome.

293 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:50:08pm

re: #273 Dark_Falcon

Maybe, but maybe not. I depends on how Catholics come down on this. If they support their clergy, then Obama is in major trouble.

Considering the fact that most Catholics use birth control and ignore the clergy on sexual matters, I doubt it will be a problem.

294 jaunte  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:50:51pm
Santorum defended his remarks, declaring that his comments were not intended to equate homosexuality with incest and adultery, but rather to challenge the specific legal position that the right to privacy prevents the government from regulating consensual acts among adults, a position he disputes, because he does not believe that there is a general constitutional right to privacy.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Santorum is a dangerous radical. It's nuts that he is anywhere near a presidential campaign.

295 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:51:16pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Colbert can go fuck himself. That "definition" is rotten, as it casts aspersions against an entire extended family. Hell, it also applies to both Rick Santorum's children (some of whom are in school and may suffer greatly from this 'definition') and to the children of his two siblings. Why should all those people be maligned solely to cast a juvenile insult at man?

Wow. Touchy, aren't we?

296 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:51:51pm

re: #289 goddamnedfrank

Why should all gays be equated with child molesters and goat fuckers? Rick Santorum owns the wrath he brought down on his name.

Seriously. If Santorum wasn't such a bigoted, sanctimonious asshole the whole meme never would have happened in the first place. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound.

297 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:53:00pm

re: #286 Red Sea Desjardini Tang

But as I said earlier, the costs are considerably more than that because the doctors have to be paid for exams and prescriptions as well, which is where Planned Parenthood save the day for many who can't afford the overheads.

But the female patient will already have a doctor regardless if they're insured. That means they've more than likely have had blood work done for other reasons. They will also have an OBGYN and other procedures such as pap-smears, etc. IOW, the medical costs won't be unique to contraception or in that a woman won't "just go" to see the doctor for contraception alone.

298 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:53:22pm

re: #294 jaunte

Santorum is a dangerous radical. It's nuts that he is anywhere near a presidential campaign.

It to me is downright disturbing how reactionary the Republican candidates have devolved on issues like this. Yeah George W. Bush and his FMA sucked but I can't imagine him saying the crap about gays that Santorum has. In a sane political party, you'd get political points for moving forward on gay rights but in the modern Republican party, it seems that you get points for moving backward. I still like what David Cameron, the prime minister of the UK said, "I'm not for gay marriage in spite of my conservatism, I'm for gay marriage because I am a conservative." I wouldn't have voted for him if I were a Briton but to hear a conservative leader say that, that was great.

299 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:55:37pm

BTW, it's worth noting that Stephen Colbert is a practicing Catholic AND a Sunday school teacher.

300 palomino  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:55:43pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

Concur. Perhaps a compromise could be reached. How about requiring the insurance companies that sell to religious institutions offer a low-cost contraceptive 'bolt-on' that employees can pay for out-of pocket. That means the church is no longer paying for it, which would remove the practical objection.

Fine by me. Obama needs to compromise on this, for political not moral reasons, and then get this kind of culture war issue off the table. Let the GOP drown itself in a rhetorical flood of hate over contraception, abortion, gay rights, etc.

Sometimes the smart thing to do is very little. Give your opponent some rope and watch them hang themselves.

301 Petero1818  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:56:25pm

re: #290 McSpiff

See my edit.

And by the way, employer provided health insurance is not as widely held as it may be assumed in canada. Of all expenditures on health care that are outside the public funded system, 55% of them are paid privately and not through private or employment provided insurance.

302 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:56:27pm

Suppose, just hypothetically, that there was a sort of nebulous and 'anonymous' group of people who planted some deliberately misleading data in a GOP think tank focus group survey, and that's what made them suddenly decide that it's time to set the world on fire over hardcore fundamentalist Catholic dogma.

I mean, just suppose.

303 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:56:34pm

re: #299 Lidane

BTW, it's worth noting that Stephen Colbert is a practicing Catholic AND a Sunday school teacher.

Which led to the greatest statement ever made on television.

304 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:57:49pm

re: #299 Lidane

BTW, it's worth noting that Stephen Colbert is a practicing Catholic AND a Sunday school teacher.

Look, nobody's perfect.

305 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:58:51pm

Also poking fun at his last name is nothing compared to the bullying that gay kids face that Santorum and his allies think isn't a big deal. Believe me, I've had my last name poked fun at and comparing that with some of the stories I've read about what gay teens have to go through. I'd take poking fun at my name.

306 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 8:59:53pm

re: #295 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Wow. Touchy, aren't we?

You should see what happens when someone mentions that Republicans are dogshit. That's how it works, gays apparently aren't real people so equating them to pedophiles and dog diddlers isn't that big a deal. Equating any Republican anywhere to some brand of fecal matter is a serious breach of decorum and grounds for much outrage.

307 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:00:09pm

I have a question here. If some Catholic instutions are already providing contraception, without being forced to do so, how can others claim religious beliefs prevent them from allowing it? Is it unfair of me to expect some consistency within the same religion?

308 palomino  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:00:23pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Colbert can go fuck himself. That "definition" is rotten, as it casts aspersions against an entire extended family. Hell, it also applies to both Rick Santorum's children (some of whom are in school and may suffer greatly from this 'definition') and to the children of his two siblings. Why should all those people be maligned solely to cast a juvenile insult at man?

Calm down. Colbert's a comedian, and sometimes they make dirty jokes.

Yeah, what Dan Savage did was mean and juvenille, but why don't you put yourself in the place of a gay person: how would you feel about a Senator saying your sexual orientation was tantamount to bestiality? that you were subhuman and deserved to be discriminated against?

That's a far worse insult than anything Dan Savage has come up with.

309 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:01:07pm

re: #307 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

I have a question here. If some Catholic instutions are already providing contraception, without being forced to do so, how can others claim religious beliefs prevent them from allowing it? Is it unfair of me to expect some consistency within the same religion?

Yes.
:P

310 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:01:24pm

re: #306 goddamnedfrank

I've been here on some of those nights and called him out on it. His excuse is to point out that he is, in fact, partisan.

311 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:02:12pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

L Ron Hubbard truly was a brilliant man.

312 palomino  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:02:40pm

re: #273 Dark_Falcon

Maybe, but maybe not. I depends on how Catholics come down on this. If they support their clergy, then Obama is in major trouble.

I'm sure the thought of Obama being in trouble over this makes you happy. And he'll probably punt on the issue at some point because he's a cautious politician.

But think about this: if the Catholic bishops can't get Catholics to stop voting Dem over ABORTION, do you think contraception, used by nearly all Catholic women, is the key?

313 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:03:23pm

re: #307 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

I have a question here. If some Catholic instutions are already providing contraception, without being forced to do so, how can others claim religious beliefs prevent them from allowing it? Is it unfair of me to expect some consistency within the same religion?

It's a pretty big religion, and not at all as monolithic as it seems. And they were perfecting political posturing when Aztecs were still wandering around the Great Basin.

314 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:04:02pm

Right. Grant them exceptions. Next thing you know you'll be granting them exceptions to not perform abortions in emergency life-saving situations. Which has already occurred.

315 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:07:33pm

Then start granting them exception to turn away gay couples. Or transsexuals. Or visitation and familial rights to GLBT couples. These "abominations of God." There is a slippery slope here. And the Catholic Church has to stop acting like they're a sovereign nation within a nation with special rights while enjoying the rights of a society created by the public at large.

316 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:10:14pm

re: #310 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

I've been here on some of those nights and called him out on it. His excuse is to point out that he is, in fact, partisan.

Yep, it's an excuse alright. And the admitted inability to empathize with others is just an "honest admission." These are weak tactics employed to deflect and avoid dealing with legitimate criticism of inconsistently applied morality.

It gets old.

317 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:10:31pm

I don't have to treat this person! It's against my religion! Just stick him back in the ambulance and take him to county general.

But that's 30 miles away! He won't survive the trip.

Not my problem man. Good luck and God bless you.

318 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:11:15pm

re: #262 Lidane

The Church's unreasonable and stupid attitudes about sex, women, and birth control were big reasons why I left when I was 18. They're just so backwards in so many ways. I mean, birth control lowers the abortion rate because it prevents an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. That's a GOOD thing, yet they think it's evil. WTF.

I grew up Catholic, did the whole sacrament song and dance up to Confirmation, then when I left home, that was that. Haven't set foot in a church except for weddings, funerals, and the occasional service with my mother since then, and when I *do* go, I just quietly go through the motions and don't pray or recite the Mass. Thanks, but no. I'll stick to being a heathen.

My own church is hardly perfect (I'm Episcopalian) but there are some very real reasons why I would never "swim the Tiber" as we put it, no matter how much guilt my mother tried to lay on me. I am a believer; I love catholic liturgical ritual; I will not accept Roman ideas of how church polity shall be. I certainly don't accept the idea that the Bishop of Rome has any special precedence.

There are other issues to be sure. Most of them are not theological (though some have become tangled up in dogma, but that's a separate issue) but are rather more authority issues.

The question, to use the Roman formulation, is who has the Magisterium? Who has the the authority to teach us what god commands? Some wish it to be held very tightly within human authority structures. Other see it as something much more widely available - available to anyone who studies the teachings. My soul lies in that wider camp.

319 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:11:22pm

re: #289 goddamnedfrank

Speaking of inflicting things upon oneself, I indulged a heretofore-unknown masochistic streak and clicked through to some random wingnut's Twitter profile. Behold the stunning willful ignorance, rage-filled non-sequiturs when challenged, and...

@txvoodoo
Catholic church's stance on B.C. is directly responsible for huge amounts of poverty, HIV, subjugation of women/children.

@hboulware
Huh. And here I thought all that was the fault of ignorant, irresponsible imbeciles like you.

@txvoodoo
btw, using BC is responsible. Preventing others from doing so, encouraging them not to? Privileged & oppressive.

@hboulware
I made a statement. That's not an invitation to debate. Thanks for playing!

...a few posts later:

@rachelveronica
Last Easter I had to listen to my family openly mock the Catholic Church at the dinner table.

@hboulware
I'm sorry. I get that for being pro-life. It's hurtful :(

@rachelveronica
It really is.

@hboulware
Yep. It's one thing to disagree it's another to ridicule us over it.

#hypocrisy #selfawarenessfail #ohshitthesepeoplevotepleasecancelthemout

320 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:11:28pm

I'm sorry, we don't allow theists to adopt.
/

321 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:11:28pm

The Ron Paul method. Free-market Jesus medical care. Religious groups have rights!

322 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:11:48pm

re: #300 palomino

Fine by me. Obama needs to compromise on this, for political not moral reasons, and then get this kind of culture war issue off the table. Let the GOP drown itself in a rhetorical flood of hate over contraception, abortion, gay rights, etc.

Sometimes the smart thing to do is very little. Give your opponent some rope and watch them hang themselves.

The Catholic bishops seem to have pre-rejected the most obvious compromise:
[Link: www.religiondispatches.org...]

I think they feel they're riding a potent wedge issue back to political relevance and I'm not sure they're open to backing down no matter what is offered.

323 palomino  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:13:55pm

re: #322 simoom

The Catholic bishops seem to have pre-rejected the most obvious compromise:
[Link: www.religiondispatches.org...]

I think they feel they're riding a potent wedge issue back to political relevance and I'm not sure they're open to backing down no matter what is offered.

Which puts Obama in a terrible bind, probably something the Bishops are quite pleased to see.

324 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:15:54pm

re: #321 Gus

The Ron Paul method. Free-market Jesus medical care. Religious groups have rights!

Incorporated churches are persons, too.

325 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:16:13pm

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I bid...
25 cents!

326 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:17:23pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

Incorporated churches are persons, too.

So is my Death Star.
Funny, that.

327 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:17:39pm

re: #323 palomino

I get the feeling this may backfire on the Catholic Church in the US.

Already, the Canadian Bishops are revolting:

The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops issued what many interpreted as a dissenting document, the Winnipeg Statement. In it, the bishops recognized that many Catholics found it "either extremely difficult or even impossible to make their own all elements of this doctrine" (that of Humanae Vitae). Additionally, they reasserted the Catholic principle of primacy of conscience, a principle that they said should be properly interpreted, since they insisted that "a Catholic Christian is not free to form his conscience without consideration of the teaching of the magisterium, in the particular instance exercised by the Holy Father in an encyclical letter"

And doing this is more than risky 96-98% of Catholic Women who have used Birth Control. This playing Chicken with the issue may backfire.

328 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:17:47pm

I feel so stupid that I missed the part where Jesus said thou shalt not take Depo-Provera shots.

329 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:17:55pm

re: #326 Varek Raith

So is my Death Star.
Funny, that.

Death Star LLC

330 palomino  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:18:04pm

When was this new regulation announced?
Was it just a few days ago, or is it just the outrage that's recent because it gives the gop something to talk about other than the economy.

And if this is really such a big deal, where was the right wing outrage over the 28(?) states that already have such regulations?

One way or another I think Obama is too smart and cautious a pol to let this issue fester for long. Unless he really thinks the public will come down on his side, in which case he may fight, but I wouldn't bet on it.

331 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:18:21pm

re: #329 Decatur Deb

Death Star LLC

I told them it was a mining laser.
XD

332 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:18:26pm

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet but the solution is still there. Right in front of our faces.

Two words. Single payer.

333 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:19:09pm

re: #332 Gus

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet but the solution is still there. Right in front of our faces.

Two words. Single payer.

Shut the front door.

334 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:19:27pm

re: #332 Gus

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet but the solution is still there. Right in front of our faces.

Two words. Single payer.

I would be amazed if the Obama response and/or compromise to this would be single payer.

335 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:19:40pm

re: #332 Gus

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet but the solution is still there. Right in front of our faces.

Two words. Single payer.

Aaa-men.

336 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:20:22pm

Late in CST--'Nite, all.

337 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:21:31pm

Sooo... what about Catholics who have other jobs. With health-care plans. Aren't they being forced to pay for birth control they don't agree with?

338 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:24:03pm

re: #337 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Sooo... what about Catholics who have other jobs. With health-care plans. Aren't they being forced to pay for birth control they don't agree with?

And if they do agree with it should they be excommunicated? //

339 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:24:22pm

I'm trying to imagine myself as some Big Time film producer, entertaining an unknown, unproven Screen Play Writer pitching his/her latest work of fiction...

Mr. BT: "You mean to tell me your script is about a massive organization that possesses incredible wealth, power, and political influence around the entire globe... yet also maintains a near complete tax exempt status on their profits and holdings, and is being gifted federal monies provided by the taxpayers? And all of this is transparent to the public at large, not only without complaint, but with general acceptance?"

Mr. SPW: "Yes sir."

Mr. BT: "And further, you're trying to present this powerful, wealthy cabal as suffering under the yolk of oppression?"

Mr. SPW: "Yes sir, they are being persecuted for their beliefs."

Mr. BT: "Oh, fer fuck's sake, kid. This entity you describe is suckling dry a bigger teet than any number of mythical welfare queens could hope to have access to, yet you want to depict them as downtrodden and persecuted. No audience is going to buy a heap of stinking fiction that ridiculous. Get the fuck outta my office!"

Like. That.

340 Petero1818  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:26:14pm

re: #332 Gus

I'm surprised no one mentioned it yet but the solution is still there. Right in front of our faces.

Two words. Single payer.

I tried to point out earlier, that it does not solve it. In Canada, while single payer does pay for abortion, it does NOT pay for prescription Meds. So you need private insurance for the pill. Our prescription prices are much more affordable though.

341 simoom  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:26:39pm

re: #330 palomino

When was this new regulation announced?

A few weeks ago I think:
[Link: thehill.com...]

342 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:27:20pm

re: #334 Lidane

I would be amazed if the Obama response and/or compromise to this would be single payer.

Didn't go anywhere then. Now? With these knuckle draggers in the House? Not likely. Right now we have a GOP that wants to repeal HCR and bring back pre-existing conditions limitations. In addition to that and at this point they want to ban all abortions and from what we seeing now banning contraception. Romney also wants to repeal Title X funding.

344 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:30:20pm

re: #343 Varek Raith

Fox's Andrea Tantaros: Contraception Mandate "Is For Population Control ... This Has Nothing To Do With Women's Health"

DERP.

Do they even try to be objective? Nah need to scare up the viewers.

345 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:30:43pm

re: #344 HappyWarrior

Do they even try to be objective? Nah need to scare up the viewers.

AGENDA 21!!!!

346 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:30:48pm

I keep forgetting that we as a society are too busy rewarding sports figures, reality stars, worthless CEOs, and other entertainment figures in the millions and billions to be able to afford these things. We have some interesting priorities as a "civilization." But I don't mind since I gave up around the year 2000.

347 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:32:20pm

What are you crazy? We can't afford that. Shaq needs to own 32 mansions and 12 yachts. But he gives to charities so shut the hell up!

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:32:41pm

re: #291 HappyWarrior

Have to agree. It may be a little juvenile but it's nowhere near the vile shit Santorum says about gay and lesbian Americans to get votes. Remember this is the man who compared gay sex to beastility. He's earned the scorn he's gotten. Oh and Colbert is a comedian, Santorum meanwhile is a serious contender for president.

He's earned the scorn.

I think Dark's point, and it's hard to argue, is that other people named Santorum aren't responsible for Rick's enormous horrendousness.

350 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:33:00pm
351 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:33:22pm

We can't afford that!

//

352 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:33:36pm

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

He's earned the scorn.

I think Dark's point, and it's hard to argue, is that other people named Santorum aren't responsible for Rick's enormous horrendousness.

True enough.

353 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:33:43pm

re: #348 Varek Raith

He's almost making me miss Beck.

Almost.

354 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:33:45pm

re: #317 Gus

I don't have to treat this person! It's against my religion! Just stick him back in the ambulance and take him to county general.

But that's 30 miles away! He won't survive the trip.

Not my problem man. Good luck and God bless you.

In the more realistic version, some jackass "youth minister" with a blonde goatee tells you that everyone's going to "agree together"** for a miracle. When the person dies anyway, then you have to "let go and let God", and stoically accept that sometimes the answer to your prayers is "LOL no, fuck off."

** Matthew 18:19 quotes Jesus saying: Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth concerning anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.

"Agreeing together" for your miracle is one of the recurrent themes of prosperity gospel, made popular and profitable by the likes of Robert Tilton, Jim Bakker, Paul Crouch, Benny Hinn, Jimmy Swaggart, etc.

355 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:33:59pm

re: #350 Kragar

Thats no Derp, thats a space station!

You sure?
Its' mass indicates it's a singularity...

356 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:34:00pm
357 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:34:44pm

Isn't it amazing. We live in a time where we have the most billionaires and millionaires ever. Yet people still claim that "we can't afford that." This is not a plea for a free ride obviously. Because there isn't one even now. You get nothing if you have nothing.

358 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:34:53pm
359 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:35:23pm

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

He's earned the scorn.

I think Dark's point, and it's hard to argue, is that other people named Santorum aren't responsible for Rick's enormous horrendousness.

Neither is anyone named Richard Hertz, but that's life.

360 CarleeCork  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:35:54pm

re: #353 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

He's almost making me miss Beck.

Almost.

Move to Texas, he's in the process of establishing residency.

361 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:36:13pm

re: #358 Varek Raith

Hahaha! I'm not a big fan of Ed, but this is great.

Hannity is such a stupid moron. Hey, Sean, if he didn't want it, then it wouldn't have happened. He's the president, remember? Unbelievable, Obama gets Bin Laden which Bush never could do and Hannity is claiming Obama didn't want to it. Hannity's a pathetic joke and loser.

362 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:36:14pm

re: #359 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Neither is anyone named Richard Hertz, but that's life.

Famous doughnut maker.

363 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:36:27pm

re: #347 Gus

What are you crazy? We can't afford that. Shaq needs to own 32 mansions and 12 yachts. But he gives to charities so shut the hell up!

Meh. Shaq can have his mansions and his yachts. His relative salary has little to do with the issues we face.

That is, he could make just 30K/year doing what he does, instead of what he makes now, and it would have zero impact on any gov't funding.

364 Petero1818  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:37:45pm

re: #363 Slumbering Behemoth

Meh. Shaq can have his mansions and his yachts. His relative salary has little to do with the issues we face.

That is, he could make just 30K/year doing what he does, instead of what he makes now, and it would have zero impact on any gov't funding.

plus think of the joy he brings to kids faces/

365 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:38:22pm

re: #297 Gus

But the female patient will already have a doctor regardless if they're insured. That means they've more than likely have had blood work done for other reasons. They will also have an OBGYN and other procedures such as pap-smears, etc. IOW, the medical costs won't be unique to contraception or in that a woman won't "just go" to see the doctor for contraception alone.

What makes you assume that? Maybe sometimes but probably not for a healthy young woman who needs only a birth control prescription.

Goodnight for now.

366 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:38:37pm

re: #363 Slumbering Behemoth

Meh. Shaq can have his mansions and his yachts. His relative salary has little to do with the issues we face.

That is, he could make just 30K/year doing what he does, instead of what he makes now, and it would have zero impact on any gov't funding.

I'm not talking about government funding alone. I'm talking about how we pay or reward people. We give billions and millions to one, and a pittance to others. There a huge imbalance. There's a pyramid. A hierarchy. One man makes 8 dollars an hour while the other makes 10,000/hour.

367 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:39:09pm

re: #364 Petero1818

plus think of the joy he brings to kids faces/

Meh *2. I have no interest in kid's faces or basketball.

368 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:39:28pm

I thought Shaq retired..

369 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:40:26pm

re: #368 HappyWarrior

I thought Shaq retired..

I bet him I could hit more free throws.
He lost.
Bad.

370 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:40:30pm

re: #368 HappyWarrior

I thought Shaq retired..

I just pulled him out of a hat. Shaq, Bill Gates, Koch brothers, Romney, Soros...

371 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:42:52pm

re: #370 Gus

I just pulled him out of a hat. Shaq, Bill Gates, Koch brothers, Romney, Soros...

Ah gotcha. Totally see where you're coming from of course. It's unbelievable to me that people who are probably worth more than me and my next three generations complain about their tax rates. Hard to feel bad at all. I mean if you sincerely feel tax hikes are bad policy so be it but don't try to tell me that increasing your taxes to Clinton era levels is tantamount to Stalinism because it's not.

372 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:43:42pm

We have the logic, the knowledge, the will, the technology, the manpower... Yet instead we continue to choose to operate in this primitive manner. It's odd. Really odd.

373 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:45:10pm

re: #366 Gus

Well, if you could reconcile a balance sheet in a way that makes women scream with joy, makes men green with envy, and sells $millions$ in advertising, I'd wager there is an accounting firm out there just dying to give you a fat paycheck and get your big mug printed on a box of breakfast cereal.
///

374 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:45:20pm

re: #371 HappyWarrior

Ah gotcha. Totally see where you're coming from of course. It's unbelievable to me that people who are probably worth more than me and my next three generations complain about their tax rates. Hard to feel bad at all.

When I was looking at Romney's financial report I was thinking, "damn, and this guy is 'just' worth 250 million or so." There are many with much more. Single men. One sole man worth the value if thousands of men. Something is wrong here.

375 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:46:17pm

re: #374 Gus

When I was looking at Romney's financial report I was thinking, "damn, and this guy is 'just' worth 250 million or so." There are many with much more. Single men. One sole man worth the value if thousands of men. Something is wrong here.

It makes one think about why people become socialists. That's not to say I agree with all of the tenets of socialism but it's just crazy how insanely wealthy some people are.

376 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:51:19pm

re: #375 HappyWarrior

It makes one think about why people become socialists. That's not to say I agree with all of the tenets of socialism but it's just crazy how insanely wealthy some people are.

It's a conundrum. I have no idea how to fix this easily. Other than increasing minimum wages. But even then those middle ground business people are in the hole as well. The master and god of industry and entertainment loom above them. This is a 1000 year old system. The tall men. The good looking. The beautiful people are always rewarded more even if they produce nothing. We wait for their charity which never comes. My dream is that "they" would just do the right thing on their own. But that never happens.

377 allegro  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:51:24pm

re: #365 Red Sea Desjardini Tang

What makes you assume that? Maybe sometimes but probably not for a healthy young woman who needs only a birth control prescription.

Goodnight for now.

I guarantee you that young women are going purely for the BC prescriptions. Or pregnancy tests.

378 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:53:14pm

Pfft. I dunno what you guys are talking about. I'm a soon-to-have...

379 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:53:15pm

re: #323 palomino

Which puts Obama in a terrible bind, probably something the Bishops are quite pleased to see.

Riddle me this:

How the fantastically fractal flippin' fuck did "fundamentalist Catholic" become America's Default Setting over the course of the past 72 hours?

Obama "in a terrible bind" vis a vis "the Bishops"?

What the FUCK year is it? Are strange musclebound guys with thick Austrian accents combing the countryside looking for Sarah Connor?

I am terrified that I am going to suddenly wake up to find that it's actually 1930, and I've been experiencing a WILD fever-dream about some deranged ex-convict who somehow wins an election and ends up bringing indescribable ruin on half the world.

380 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:53:19pm

re: #374 Gus

When I was looking at Romney's financial report I was thinking, "damn, and this guy is 'just' worth 250 million or so." There are many with much more. Single men. One sole man worth the value if thousands of men. Something is wrong here.

Something is wrong there. Without trying to be too much of a dick, and because I am pretty sure you do get what follows...

The problem there comes from seeing an individual's worth, male or female, as something that can be measured against many by mere wealth.

381 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:54:40pm

re: #169 Lidane

Mark Shields is talking out of his ass, like always. The Dems that are rebelling are the usual Blue Dog suspects and Joe Lieberman.

Most people actually see the concept of a birth control coverage mandate for their health insurance and think it's a good thing. Unless you're the Catholic Church.

who you callin the catholic church, lady??

382 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:57:28pm

re: #380 Slumbering Behemoth

Something is wrong there. Without trying to be too much of a dick, and because I am pretty sure you do get what follows...

The problem there comes from seeing an individual's worth, male or female, as something that can be measured against many by mere wealth.

Here then. Let me be blunt. Most rich people are overvalued idiots. Take the Super Bowl for instance. A bunch of stupid football players making millions per year to play a stupid game with a stupid ball. Then to be entertained by a lousy pop star who once was probably good but now is like a novelty. All making millions and billions total to watch them play stupid football.

Oh. And baseball and basketball too. Just a bunch of dumb idiots making millions by being stupid fucking jocks while the rest of us live our lame ass lives glorifying these largely illiterate idiots.

BRB. I have to take a leak.

383 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:01:42pm

re: #382 Gus

It seems an odd avatar to whip, though. And the language you use makes you sound bitter in a way.

But I couldn't give two shits about sports in general, so maybe that's why I find it odd.

384 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:08:52pm

re: #381 engineer cat

who you callin the catholic church, lady??

385 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:09:13pm

So a fertilized egg is a human. And maybe 50% successfully implant in the uterine wall.

You wimmins and your murdering wombs. Time to regulate them, collect the non-implanted eggs, and give them Christian/Catholic burials. Even if they are going to to Limbo.

(How low can you go?)

386 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:14:09pm

re: #383 Slumbering Behemoth

It seems an odd avatar to whip, though. And the language you use makes you sound bitter in a way.

But I couldn't give two shits about sports in general, so maybe that's why I find it odd.

The sports scam is just one example. But hey, I don't care what people do. Let them idolize these men that "throw balls." And it's exclusively a mans' sport. All the spoils go to men since they are by nature more physically strong. It's an entertainment venue borne of cavemen, Romans and Greeks.

I am bitter. And why not? Do you think it matters? 50 years from now all of us will be nothing but a memory. And when the human species finally become extinct no one will be here to remember the memories of this lame existence of ours. I've decided that I have nothing to lose and I don't.

I'm still trying to figure this out though. How one idiot like Tom Brady is equal in worth to one rather large small town. Including his equally ignorant wife. But I guess I should just thump my chest in his ability to throw a ball and his wife's ability to stimulate my libido and call it a day. They are my superiors. That, I find hilarious.

387 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:18:23pm

re: #386 Gus

The sports scam is just one example. But hey, I don't care what people do. Let them idolize these men that "throw balls." And it's exclusively a mans' sport. All the spoils go to men since they are by nature more physically strong. It's an entertainment venue borne of cavemen, Romans and Greeks.

I am bitter. And why not? Do you think it matters? 50 years from now all of us will be nothing but a memory. And when the human species finally become extinct no one will be here to remember the memories of this lame existence of ours. I've decided that I have nothing to lose and I don't.

I'm still trying to figure this out though. How one idiot like Tom Brady is equal in worth to one rather large small town. Including his equally ignorant wife. But I guess I should just thump my chest in his ability to throw a ball and his wife's ability to stimulate my libido and call it a day. They are my superiors. That, I find hilarious.

They generate income in excess of what they are paid.

Duh.

Capitalism!

388 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:18:44pm

And while we were all watching the Super Bowl they were murdering people in Syria? And I'm supposed to care about these idiots throwing balls at each other while making millions a year? As if that matters? The whole thing is absurd. People were talking about M.I.A. giving the finger the next day. While children were being slaughtered.

389 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:19:11pm

re: #387 a fertilized egg is a human.

They generate income in excess of what they are paid.

Duh.

Capitalism!

Then spread that income.

390 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:19:16pm

re: #386 Gus

Holy fuck, Gus!!! What tribe were you indoctrinated into?
///

Never pulled that much from sporting events. But, as I have said, I'm not big on that scene. Maybe if I polled some of my fellow video game enthusiasts...

391 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:21:13pm

re: #389 Gus

Then spread that income.

Pshaw!

Rugged individualism. Bootstraps.

//

392 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:23:13pm

re: #391 a fertilized egg is a human.

Pshaw!

Rugged individualism. Bootstraps.

//

Free market Jesus.

I know. I bow before the glory of my human superiors. There but for I reject God I accept my human equivalents who in fact have more dominance over me. I therefore bend over in submission.

//

393 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:25:32pm

re: #392 Gus

Free market Jesus.

I know. I bow before the glory of my human superiors. There but for I reject God I accept my human equivalents who in fact have more dominance over me. I therefore bend over in submission.

//

Excellent, thrall! Please be aware that your Santorum will not be a frothy mix, as no lube will be included.

394 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:25:52pm

re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy fuck, Gus!!! What tribe were you indoctrinated into?
///

Never pulled that much from sporting events. But, as I have said, I'm not big on that scene. Maybe if I polled some of my fellow video game enthusiasts...

You're focusing too much on the sports angle. I already said they are but part of the problem.

395 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:28:09pm

re: #393 a fertilized egg is a human.

Excellent, thrall! Please be aware that your Santorum will not be a frothy mix, as no lube will be included.

Meh. I won't bother. I'm pretty good at submitting to authority as required. All hail something or another. So help me dog.

396 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:32:00pm

re: #387 a fertilized egg is a human.

They generate income in excess of what they are paid.

Duh.

Capitalism!

I can honestly say that no sporting event has ever generated any income from my active involvement.

397 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:32:33pm

re: #394 Gus

You're focusing too much on the sports angle. I already said they are but part of the problem.

There is no they, only it. An element of entertainment or interest.

A distraction for some, an addiction for others, a barely noticeable curiosity for others still.

398 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:32:52pm

re: #395 Gus

Meh. I won't bother. I'm pretty good at submitting to authority as required. All hail something or another. So help me dog.

You're a good thrall!

Submit...submit...

We know what's best for you...

Respect your masters...

The business of America is business. The protection of entrenched wealth is what makes this country great.

Drink the Kool-aid.

399 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:34:20pm

re: #396 Kragar

I can honestly say that no sporting event has ever generated any income from my active involvement.

Good for you! 133 million viewers have a different viewpoint.

400 Four More Tears  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:35:45pm

re: #398 a fertilized egg is a human.

Job Creators.

401 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:37:46pm

re: #398 a fertilized egg is a human.

You're a good thrall!

Submit...submit...

We know what's best for you...

Respect your masters...

The business of America is business. The protection of entrenched wealth is what makes this country great.

Drink the Kool-aid.

I'm thinking now of this one scene in Band of Brothers. It's when Captain Spears tells Blithe that he's already dead.

The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function: without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends upon it.

402 freetoken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:38:04pm

re: #388 Gus

Your display name could very well be Jonah.

403 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:38:29pm

For elements of entertainment... I like video games, pr0n, and heavy metal.

I could only hope to be persecuted on the same level as sports fans.

404 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:40:17pm

re: #403 Slumbering Behemoth

For elements of entertainment... I like video games, pr0n, and heavy metal.

I could only hope to be persecuted on the same level as sports fans.

Yep. I am one to be feared.

//

405 freetoken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:40:46pm

re: #386 Gus

The sports scam is just one example.

It's an industry built on exploiting the addictive nature of testosterone.

406 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:41:14pm

re: #404 Gus

So, you like Heavy Metal too?
///

407 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:41:44pm

re: #405 freetoken

It's an industry built on exploiting the addictive nature of testosterone.

re: #406 Slumbering Behemoth

So, you like Heavy Metal too?
///

:P pffft!!!

408 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:42:48pm

re: #406 Slumbering Behemoth

So, you like Heavy Metal too?
///

Image: 2916.jpg

409 Lidane  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:45:28pm

re: #396 Kragar

I can honestly say that no sporting event has ever generated any income from my active involvement.

Considering the fact that I go out of my way to watch every match I can during the World Cup and I even paid for the ESPN app that let me listen to and keep up with matches on my iPhone when I wasn't at home, I can't say the same. :)

I'm now teaching myself to understand rugby. This could be a new addiction.

410 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:47:28pm

re: #408 Kragar

Image: 2916.jpg

Wouldn't life be great if it was explained in one single image. The meaning of a man in one image. There it is. Right there. It is the embodiment of a man.

//

411 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:47:40pm

re: #408 Kragar

Ask...

412 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:47:55pm

re: #409 Lidane

Considering the fact that I go out of my way to watch every match I can during the World Cup and I even paid for the ESPN app that let me listen to and keep up with matches on my iPhone when I wasn't at home, I can't say the same. :)

I'm now teaching myself to understand rugby. This could be a new addiction.

Wargaming is where the real action is.

413 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:53:04pm

I understand. There are always exceptions to being a "liberal". That even includes prostrating one's self to "athletic populism" and Apple gadgets required therein.

There are limits to rejecting Bain Capital products you know. I might be voting for Obama but I'm still a consumer.

Laughing sounds.

//

414 freetoken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:54:17pm

I'm wondering if I should do a "Display Name". I'm not sure what it would get me.

415 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:58:41pm

re: #413 Gus

I have long since accepted that my earthly, consumerist habits have left me open to the influence of demons, and have condemned me to an eternity in the deepest pits of Hell.

Take heart, Gus. At least you'll be sharing a cell with someone who can crack off a few dick jokes here and there.

416 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:06:09pm

re: #415 Slumbering Behemoth

I have long since accepted that my earthly, consumerist habits have left me open to the influence of demons, and have condemned me to an eternity in the deepest pits of Hell.

Take heart, Gus. At least you'll be sharing a cell with someone who can crack off a few dick jokes here and there.

Sorry. Was messing with some cats. But I get it though. Ridicule the Catholic Church and the GOP all we want but whatever you do don't ridicule organized billionaire sports and Apple. That's cool.

417 freetoken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:07:54pm

re: #416 Gus

I ridicule sports, and even at times some of the late Job's idiosyncrasies that he forced onto his products (such as his hatred of proper pointing and writing devices.)

The only thing I don't ridicule is chocolate... never ridicule chocolate.

418 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:12:13pm

It's interesting to watch all of the people that ignore the transphobic jokes about Ann Coulter get all serious about Roland Martin.

419 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:13:33pm

re: #416 Gus

Sorry. Was messing with some cats. But I get it though. Ridicule the Catholic Church and the GOP all we want but whatever you do don't ridicule organized billionaire sports and Apple. That's cool.

Yeah, 'cuz I'm so in the tank for those things.
////

420 palomino  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:18:23pm

re: #379 negativ

Riddle me this:

How the fantastically fractal flippin' fuck did "fundamentalist Catholic" become America's Default Setting over the course of the past 72 hours?

Obama "in a terrible bind" vis a vis "the Bishops"?

What the FUCK year is it? Are strange musclebound guys with thick Austrian accents combing the countryside looking for Sarah Connor?

I am terrified that I am going to suddenly wake up to find that it's actually 1930, and I've been experiencing a WILD fever-dream about some deranged ex-convict who somehow wins an election and ends up bringing indescribable ruin on half the world.

I can't predict if the Catholic vote will be affected by this or not. But two things are clear: Obama would rather not be dealing with this shit; and just a few percentage point change in the overall Catholic vote could easily be the difference between winning and losing in November. Hence the Republican aggressiveness over the last 24 hours. Maybe it's all wishful thinking on their part, maybe not.

421 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:20:51pm

re: #419 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, 'cuz I'm so in the tank for those things.
///

Somehow. I think you've confused all of this for yourself. It's not about you.

422 freetoken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:21:33pm

re: #420 palomino

As far as I can tell, it's all about the swing states of OH, PA, and FL. All three have a sizable portion of their electorate who are very religious (to hyper religious). Democrats have faired well in those states, but that is largely due to FDR and the long term effects of unions being strongly Democratic Party biased. Since that segment of the Democratic machine has weakened, Democrats have been walking carefully in those key states, not wanting to write off the religious Democrats (of which Catholics would be a non-trivial share.)

423 freetoken  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:22:04pm

re: #422 freetoken

pimf "fared".

Oh well.

424 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:23:43pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Looks like the unthinkable has happened.

SpaceJesus has been transformed into Pamela Geller.

Happened last night!

425 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:27:57pm

It's interesting though. I say something things about football and suddenly I'm being judged on a personal level. I probably should have expected that. Sorry to see that coming from a certain person though. I speak in generalities for the most part. And try to avoid being personal. Of course I still attract the personal invectives from the strong men folk. Pretty common response though.

426 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:28:01pm

re: #421 Gus

Somehow. I think you've confused all of this for yourself. It's not about you.

Dude, it's always about me. Your paramour does not kiss you at that most opportune moment? Me!

Your job interview goes south because of some seemingly unrelated incident? Me!

You hear that strange sound in your dwelling, in the dark of the the night, and you stagger forth to investigate? That thing you stubbed your pinkie toe painfully against was not your end table. It. Was. ME!!!

It is always about me.
///

427 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:28:06pm

re: #424 Floral Giraffe

Happened last night!

I blame Ellen Degeneres.
/

428 Gus  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:31:06pm

Punching out! PLOOF!

Later.

429 Kragar  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:36:16pm

Lawrence O’Donnell Breaks It To Donald Trump: ‘Romney Knows’ He Is ‘America’s Biggest Loser’

“The job you want is United States Trade Representative,” O’Donnell helpfully explained to Trump, adding that it was a Cabinet-level position, and that he would have a lot of problems with the confirmation process. “The Chief of Staff of the committee [a job O'Donnell once held] would learn everything there is to know about you… you will be asked in writing about your history of drug use, illegal drug use, and when is the last time you used them.” If that wasn’t enough, “not every little thing in your tax returns becomes public, just the really bad things.” O’Donnell added that he didn’t think that would bother Trump so much since he has a job where “you pretend to fire people who don’t actually work for you,” but that he would have a problem with a ~$200,000 a year salary because “you can’t live on that.”

But that, O’Donnell concluded, was irrelevant, because “Mitt Romney would never pick you to negotiate trade deal with the Chinese,” and that the Romney family wouldn’t hire Trump to “wash their cars.” “Romney knows you’re a buffoon, and unconfirmable joke, America’s biggest loser,” he concluded, before condemning Trump to his perch back on Twitter.

430 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:38:57pm

Oofah, must grab kip. And change the screen name.

431 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:40:59pm

Did it work?

432 austin_blue  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:41:51pm

Yay!

Night all, sweet scaly dreams.

433 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 8, 2012 11:56:58pm

NSFW.

G'nite all.

434 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 12:01:46am

Oldest living thing: Giant Seaweed Patches In Mediterranean Sea

The oldest living thing, 200,000-year-old giant patches of seagrass, was discovered by scientists in the Mediterranean Sea, according to reports by several international news sites on Tuesday, February 7, 2012.

The seaweed patches weighs 6,000 tons and stretches for about 10 miles. The organism reportedly reproduce asexually and spread very slowly to cover large areas.

Reports say that scientists used DNA sequencing at 40 different sites over a 2,000 mile range from Spain to Cyprus to determine the age of the seaweed patches.

The DNA sequencing showed that the age of the organisms ranged from 12,000 to 200,000-years-old, majority of which are likely around 100,000-years-old.

435 freetoken  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 12:55:07am
436 researchok  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 1:20:29am

Morning, all

437 researchok  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 1:26:04am

re: #435 freetoken

..."and Frank, Dino, Sammy were huddled around a small table in a corner, cigarettes alight- until Marilyn sidled up..."

438 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:00:35am

I wonder how many Republicans are going to oppose this legislation, since regulatory agencies like the FDA are so evil.

Arsenic, lead standards in fruit juice sought

WASHINGTON — The next time your kid reaches for more apple juice, think twice.

Recent reports have found that fruit juices, such as apple and grape, contain arsenic and lead at levels that far exceed the federal bottled and public water standards.

The problem is that there are no federal standards for how much lead and arsenic is too much. Reps. Frank Pallone, D-N.J., and Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., want to change that.

The House Democrats introduced a bill Wednesday that would require the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to establish standards for arsenic and lead in fruit juices.

“I don’t think I can emphasize enough the dangers of the arsenic in these juice boxes that are sitting on our shelves in our homes,” said Pallone, the senior Democrat on the House Energy and Commerce Committee’s subcommittee on health.
[...]
A recent Consumer Reports investigation found “alarmingly high” levels of arsenic and lead in apple and grape juices purchased in New Jersey, New York and Connecticut.

The limit for arsenic in bottled and public water is 10 parts per billion. Their study found arsenic levels in apple juices ranged from 1.1 to 13.9 parts per billion and grape juice levels ranged from 5.9 to 24.7 parts per billion. One fourth of all juice samples had levels at or above the 5 parts per billion limit for lead in bottled water. The highest levels detected were 13.6 parts per billion in apple juice and 15.9 parts per billion in grape juice.

439 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:02:34am

Yunno, there is a big difference between requiring Catholics to offer birth control and requiring Catholics to use it.

As long as you suscribe to the notion that we are weak and sinful and must be protected from our vices, then it is easier to subscribe to the "everything not fobidden is mandatory" mindset that is rearing it's ugly head here.

440 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:47:15am

"its ugly head"...having a bad grammer day today.

441 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 2:59:35am

guilt trip...my bad grammar has KILLED this thread!!!

442 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:10:34am

re: #441 ralphieboy

It was have been going to be died anyway.

443 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:14:20am

but I shouldnt've have had to done that anyways...

444 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:15:47am

re: #443 ralphieboy

If you knew you was going to have done that, why didn't you not stop doing the opposite?

445 EdDantes  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:41:31am

Obdi and Ralphie : Why are y'all talking like this guy?

446 simoom  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:50:11am

re: #418 Gus

It's interesting to watch all of the people that ignore the transphobic jokes about Ann Coulter get all serious about Roland Martin.

Yeah. Personally, I'm glad Martin got suspended -- he earned it with his tweets, but CNN needs to apply the same standard to their other contributors. For example, Dana Loesch definitely should have received her own suspension over her recent comments, and obviously Eric Erickson should have never been hired in the first place over many things he's written.

447 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:06:19am

re: #418 Gus

It's interesting to watch all of the people that ignore the transphobic jokes about Ann Coulter get all serious about Roland Martin.

There are no objective standards involved: if they want to get rid of you already for any reason, all you have to do is give them a convenient excuse.

448 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:12:27am

re: #434 Kragar

Oldest living thing: Giant Seaweed Patches In Mediterranean Sea

Dude, That's older than your mom//Mom joke/

Also, Good Morning Honcos!

449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:17:09am

Google Chrome is now starting to drive me crazy with pop-ups. If my cursor comes close to an ad it opens a new page. Started after I started seeing, "Google has changed its privacy policy"

Anybody else having that problem?

450 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:18:15am

re: #449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Google Chrome is now starting to drive me crazy with pop-ups. If my cursor comes close to an ad it opens a new page. Started after I started seeing, "Google has changed its privacy policy"

Anybody else having that problem?

Not on firefox//

451 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:18:16am

re: #449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nope.

452 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:20:39am

re: #449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nope, but then again, I am using Safari.

453 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:23:03am

Oh, well. I'll live. Thanks anyway.

454 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:23:29am

re: #453 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Click the wrench icon on the browser toolbar.
Select Options (Preferences on Mac and Linux; Settings on a Chromebook).
Click the Under the Hood tab.
Click Content settings in the "Privacy" section.
In the "Pop-ups" section, select "Do not allow any site to show pop-ups"

455 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:26:38am

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

How is being anti-contraception part of the central tenets of being Catholic. Bible, Book, Verse, and version please.

456 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:28:05am

re: #455 jamesfirecat

How is being anti-contraception part of the central tenets of being Catholic. Bible, Book, Verse, and version please.

You might want to grab a Snickers. Gonna be a while.

457 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:29:09am

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

The guy who won three primaries last night, he's for banning contraception. Polls show he'd get at least 40% of the countries vote up against Obama.

Either accept that there are "credible" people out there who are pushing for banning contraception or discover it when they succeed....

458 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:29:47am

re: #455 jamesfirecat

How is being anti-contraception part of the central tenets of being Catholic. Bible, Book, Verse, and version please.

It is because the hierarchy says it is, and the Catholic Church is a heirarchical institution.

Which doesn't matter at all. As has been observed around, something being enshrined in religious belief has no bearing on the way a secular business is run.

459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:32:14am

re: #455 jamesfirecat

From what I understand it is not in the bible except under the "be fruitful and multiply" line from Genesis.

And "Onan spilled his seed on the ground"...

The papal encyclical Casti Connubii (1930) invokes this Biblical text in support of the teaching of the Catholic Church against contracepted sex.

460 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:33:50am

re: #458 Obdicut

Which doesn't matter at all. As has been observed around, something being enshrined in religious belief has no bearing on the way a secular business is run.

Especially to someone who does not share the same religious belief.

461 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:36:33am

Did the Chrome fix work, FBV?

462 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:38:00am

re: #414 freetoken

I'm wondering if I should do a "Display Name". I'm not sure what it would get me.

"The Sheriff is Near".

:)

463 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:39:40am

re: #124 Daniel T Boyd

The government is compelling a religious organization to violate one of its fundamental tenets. There are disturbing First Amendment implications here. Just because we may disagree with the church doesn't mean we should disregard religious autonomy. By the same token I disagree with what a Klansman says, but I support his right to say it. The Constitution is everything. It is all that matters in this country.

It is not forcing anyone to use contraception, just to make it available.

They can still say that they do not approve of their employees using it.

464 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:41:45am

re: #461 Obdicut

Pop up settings were already set, thanks. This is more about the key words that turn blue... if my cursor even get's within their area code... BAM! New page.

Has just gotten more sensitive, I guess.

465 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:43:19am

re: #464 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Which key words? The ones in the occasional lines between posts?

Or ones that appear in the text?

466 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:44:33am

re: #463 ralphieboy

It is not forcing anyone to use contraception, just to make it available.

They can still say that they do not approve of their employees using it.

I don't think that distinction is going to fly when it hits the courts. I have $20 that says they backtrack and find a compromise position. Everyone is talking about the "Hawaii exemption" as the model but we'll see.

467 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:48:15am

Decent reading on religious exemptions:

[Link: volokh.com...]

It was written before the recent USSC work bias ruling but I'm not seeing how that ruling changed anything.

468 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:50:27am

Good morning Lizardia!

Another day in the project go-live grinder. Things are winding down a bit, but items keep popping up. Plus there's still work to do for the project that goes live on March 1, and the third one that goes live on April 1. On the plus side, this pretty much is the definition of job security.

On other fronts Feline Overlord is getting more meds. Gonna try some mild painkiller medication for his hip arthritis to see if that helps his mobility, and also makes him more amiable about getting his fur combed out. Which is starting to mat a bit due to his inability to groom it properly. Piled on this is decreased kidney functionality leading to mild dehydration. Might be starting on the subdermal fluids route soon. (Which I went through with another cat.) In the meantime the High Lord of Crankiness gets his tuna fish, a heated pad to snooze on, and other expected attentions.

469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:51:56am

re: #465 Obdicut

Text, and in browser searches

470 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:52:47am

re: #466 RogueOne

I don't think that distinction is going to fly when it hits the courts. I have $20 that says they backtrack and find a compromise position. Everyone is talking about the "Hawaii exemption" as the model but we'll see.

If anything this is also another arrow in the quiver for going to single-payer government supervised healthcare system.

Separation of church and health.

471 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:54:43am

re: #470 Dept of the Current Danger

If anything this is also another arrow in the quiver for going to single-payer government supervised healthcare system.

Separation of church and health.

That's a good argument. I wouldn't be supportive of single payer but I think you're right.

472 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:59:11am

re: #469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Text, and in browser searches

I dunno. I don't have those.

473 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:03:24am

re: #455 jamesfirecat

How is being anti-contraception part of the central tenets of being Catholic. Bible, Book, Verse, and version please.

"Thou Shalt Not Fun."

'Morning, all.

474 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:05:28am

re: #422 freetoken

As far as I can tell, it's all about the swing states of OH, PA, and FL. All three have a sizable portion of their electorate who are very religious (to hyper religious). Democrats have faired well in those states, but that is largely due to FDR and the long term effects of unions being strongly Democratic Party biased. Since that segment of the Democratic machine has weakened, Democrats have been walking carefully in those key states, not wanting to write off the religious Democrats (of which Catholics would be a non-trivial share.)

This will be interesting to see. We don't normally talk politics much, but I would have to poll a bunch of my friends and see where this trends. (I'm the lone atheist amidst a bunch of educated Catholics for the most part.)

My expectation is that they're not going to be buying into it. The education and experience part will override any GOP play that their religious beliefs are being trampled. I also know that the various abuse scandals have generally shaken their belief in the Catholic hierarchy.

475 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:07:53am

re: #466 RogueOne

I don't think that distinction is going to fly when it hits the courts. I have $20 that says they backtrack and find a compromise position. Everyone is talking about the "Hawaii exemption" as the model but we'll see.

Unfortunately, I think you are right.

This is already being spun as an "assault on religion", when it overall debate ignores the fact that nobody is telling Catholics that they have to approve of abortion, they just have to make it accessible: it is up to the individual employees to choose.

And Democrats are already panicking and backtracking, so Obama will probably be forced to draw back on this issue.

476 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:08:03am

re: #473 Decatur Deb

"Thou Shalt Not Fun."

'Morning, all.

Major T. J. "King" Kong:
Survival kit contents check. In them you'll find: one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days' concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings. Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

477 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:09:48am

re: #466 RogueOne

I don't think that distinction is going to fly when it hits the courts.

It already has worked, when it has hit the courts, in the various states where this is already mandated.

478 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:09:56am

re: #476 Dept of the Current Danger

"Peace Is Our Profession"

479 EdDantes  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:10:38am

re: #478 Decatur Deb

SAC

480 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:10:59am

re: #475 ralphieboy

Only the Catholic democrats are panicking, and they may stop when they realize actual Catholic voters don't agree with the hierarchy.

481 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:11:38am

re: #479 EdDantes

SAC

On the airbase sign under which the Army unit is "brushing aside" the base security.

482 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:14:06am

Morning Lizardim. What's new since I clocked out last night?

483 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:14:16am

re: #478 Decatur Deb

"Peace Is Our Profession"

Which is very apt. Those most familiar with war and living on the tip of the spear are generally quite interested in not seeing the horrors of it happen.

484 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:14:37am

re: #477 Obdicut

It already has worked, when it has hit the courts, in the various states where this is already mandated.

Where? The only place I've read where it's mandated that religious organizations provide access is HI.

485 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:15:29am

re: #482 El Fishbo

Morning Lizardim. What's new since I clocked out last night?

A surprising stability in the Force. This thread has stayed much on topic for 500 comments.

486 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:18:04am

re: #483 Dept of the Current Danger

Which is very apt. Those most familiar with war and living on the tip of the spear are generally quite interested in not seeing the horrors of it happen.

Our little HQ in Italy was targeted by two 500 kt warheads ready to fly from Hungary, not to mention growing up in Pgh.

487 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:20:33am

re: #483 Dept of the Current Danger

Which is very apt. Those most familiar with war and living on the tip of the spear are generally quite interested in not seeing the horrors of it happen.

Some of the biggest peaceniks on the planet are Generals. It's those Colonels (O6s) that you have to watch out for....I'm watching you Navy!

488 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:20:42am

re: #485 Decatur Deb

A surprising stability in the Force. This thread has stayed much on topic for 500 comments.

Well, it's an interesting topic. I know that a lot of those not in the conservative Christian mold can't quite wrap their heads around the idea that there are people who think having sex for fun is evil.

489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:21:48am

re: #480 Obdicut

Only the Catholic democrats are panicking, and they may stop when they realize actual Catholic voters don't agree with the hierarchy.

Little of religion is based on democratic vote.

490 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:25:24am

re: #484 RogueOne

Where? The only place I've read where it's mandated that religious organizations provide access is HI.

Provide access to what? To contraceptives? #247.

Eight states have no exemption – so Catholic employers in Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Montana, New Hampshire, Texas, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin must provide contraception coverage under state laws.

[Link: capsules.kaiserhealthnews.org...]

491 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:26:42am

re: #489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Little of religion is based on democratic vote.

Yeah, but bishops only get to vote once, just like anyone else. And Catholics do not actually tend to follow the Church on who to vote for, anyway.

The Catholic Church is getting really, really obvious about politicking. This is very dangerous for them. I wonder why they're picking such a stupid issue to fight this hard over, given that their own followers don't agree with them.

492 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:27:00am

re: #490 Obdicut

Provide access to what? To contraceptives? #247.

[Link: capsules.kaiserhealthnews.org...]

Someone upthread cited 28 states that already have requirements with/without conscience protections.

493 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:27:12am

re: #490 Obdicut

That's ironic, I was just on the Kaiser site looking.

494 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:28:31am

re: #491 Obdicut

Yeah, but bishops only get to vote once, just like anyone else. And Catholics do not actually tend to follow the Church on who to vote for, anyway.

The Catholic Church is getting really, really obvious about politicking. This is very dangerous for them. I wonder why they're picking such a stupid issue to fight this hard over, given that their own followers don't agree with them.

This has always been one of their big hot-button issues, along with abortion. Mostly they see promotion of contraceptives as contributing to the moral downfall of society. After all, if people can have consequence-free sex, people WILL have consequence-free sex, and not within the bonds of marriage as the Church intends.

495 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:28:47am

Obama is at 60.1 on Intrade--the highest in a long while.

496 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:29:15am

re: #486 Decatur Deb

Our little HQ in Italy was targeted by two 500 kt warheads ready to fly from Hungary, not to mention growing up in Pgh.

I've never lived more than 20-25 miles I think from what would have been a target site if the balloon went up. Mainly major industrial targets since my father worked for ALCOA.

And in the early 80's "Pittsburgh" magazine did a cover article (I think) that postulated the effect of a nuke being targeted on Pittsburgh. They had it "miss" downtown and air-bursted above the Cathedral of Learning. Which pretty much put me in the vaporized zone since I was going to school at Pitt at the time.

(Hmm, can't find a solid reference to it with a quick Google.)

497 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:29:53am

re: #494 thedopefishlives

This has always been one of their big hot-button issues, along with abortion. Mostly they see promotion of contraceptives as contributing to the moral downfall of society. After all, if people can have consequence-free sex, people WILL have consequence-free sex, and not within the bonds of marriage as the Church intends.

That's why renaissance Italy was such a dull party place.

498 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:31:15am

re: #496 Dept of the Current Danger

I've never lived more than 20-25 miles I think from what would have been a target site if the balloon went up. Mainly major industrial targets since my father worked for ALCOA.

And in the early 80's "Pittsburgh" magazine did a cover article (I think) that postulated the effect of a nuke being targeted on Pittsburgh. They had it "miss" downtown and air-bursted above the Cathedral of Learning. Which pretty much put me in the vaporized zone since I was going to school at Pitt at the time.

(Hmm, can't find a solid reference to it with a quick Google.)

Yeah--as 12 year old boys we took a bit of pride in the assets assumed to be aimed our way.

499 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:31:22am

re: #497 Decatur Deb

That's why renaissance Italy was such a dull party place.

Talking about popes having children out of wedlock at that time is sort of like talking about Fight Club; e.g. you don't.

500 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:32:34am

A rundown of the list:

The HHS Rule & The States
[Link: ordinary-gentlemen.com...]

States that appear to require contraception coverage for religious institutions (10):
Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin

States that require contraception coverage but do have an exemption process (19)......

States that have no contraception requirement at all (21):

501 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:33:23am

re: #487 RogueOne

Some of the biggest peaceniks on the planet are Generals. It's those Colonels (O6s) that you have to watch out for...I'm watching you Navy!

Some men just want to watch the world burn.
//

502 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:33:54am

re: #500 RogueOne

A rundown of the list:

The HHS Rule & The States
[Link: ordinary-gentlemen.com...]

Might make a good page for the next couple weeks.

503 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:34:49am

re: #498 Decatur Deb

Yeah--as 12 year old boys we took a bit of pride in the assets assumed to be aimed our way.

And another reason we don't want to turn the clock back 30-40 years. Living under the often ignored threat that at any moment the two superpowers could end up tossing a few thousand nuclear warheads on each other.

And it's out there as the subject of media consideration and movies ("Dr Strangelove" and "Fail Safe" are two takes on it made at roughly the same time. One played straight, and one as a black comedy.)

504 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:35:41am

re: #503 Dept of the Current Danger

And another reason we don't want to turn the clock back 30-40 years. Living under the often ignored threat that at any moment the two superpowers could end up tossing a few thousand nuclear warheads on each other.

And it's out there as the subject of media consideration and movies ("Dr Strangelove" and "Fail Safe" are two takes on it made at roughly the same time. One played straight, and one as a black comedy.)

Mr. President, we cannot allow a Mineshaft Gap!!!

505 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:36:48am

re: #502 Decatur Deb

Might make a good page for the next couple weeks.

I'm confused about Colorado. I just read a story that said the first groups have already filed lawsuits and one of those was a religious college in Denver. If they're already forced to buy contraceptive insurance by the state why would they spend money to fight the federal rule?

506 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:36:56am

re: #503 Dept of the Current Danger

And another reason we don't want to turn the clock back 30-40 years. Living under the often ignored threat that at any moment the two superpowers could end up tossing a few thousand nuclear warheads on each other.

And it's out there as the subject of media consideration and movies ("Dr Strangelove" and "Fail Safe" are two takes on it made at roughly the same time. One played straight, and one as a black comedy.)

"Strangelove" worked off "Failsafe" and "Red Alert" (the other serious one of the time).

507 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:37:16am

re: #480 Obdicut

Only the Catholic democrats are panicking, and they may stop when they realize actual Catholic voters don't agree with the hierarchy.

I hope that is the case.

I find a similar disparity with abortion: while many American oppose it on principle, a lot of them want to know that they still have the option just in case their daughter gets knocked up by someone from the wrong side of the tracks...

508 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:37:19am

re: #503 Dept of the Current Danger

I always have a bit of a sobering moment when I drive past the park in the center of my little town and see the Hercules missile standing there. It floors me to realize that if the Cold War had turned very, very hot, this sleepy little country-bumpkin town would've turned into America's last line of defense against Russian bombers with nuclear warheads.

509 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:37:37am

re: #505 RogueOne

I'm confused about Colorado. I just read a story that said the first groups have already filed lawsuits and one of those was a religious college in Denver. If they're already forced to buy contraceptive insurance by the state why would they spend money to fight the federal rule?

Why would they vote for Santorum?

510 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:38:59am

re: #491 Obdicut

The Catholic Church is getting really, really obvious about politicking. This is very dangerous for them. I wonder why they're picking such a stupid issue to fight this hard over, given that their own followers don't agree with them.

I suspect these orders come all the way from the Top. Benedict XVI is a real stickler for doctrine and dogma.

511 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:41:38am

re: #508 thedopefishlives

I always have a bit of a sobering moment when I drive past the park in the center of my little town and see the Hercules missile standing there. It floors me to realize that if the Cold War had turned very, very hot, this sleepy little country-bumpkin town would've turned into America's last line of defense against Russian bombers with nuclear warheads.

There are windmills up on the hills above Oberheimbach. They were built on former Pershing missile silos, which they simply filled in as foundations.

Had it come to a shootin' match, we would have been plastered.

512 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:42:04am

re: #504 Stupid is as stupid does

Mr. President, we cannot allow a Mineshaft Gap!!!

The issue being played for laughs (which are a lot less funny with a bit of serious consideration) is why Dr. Strangelove has had staying power.

"Fail Safe" is arguably more scary since I believe that advisors like the Walter Mathau character actually exist. And then you get to the devil's alternative decision offered to the POTUS in that movie. Project that decision on the various GOP candidates - what spectrum of results do you think you would get.*

* - And the decision the POTUS (played by Henry Fonda) makes in the movie is essentially total political and historical suicide. Which is a telling indication of the difference between politician and statesman.

I also understand that this is melodrama. So things are heavily played up and fictional. Though you can look on it as a somewhat interesting thought experiment.

513 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:43:36am

re: #512 Dept of the Current Danger

I played the last bit of "Fail Safe" for my daughter just to give her an idea of the world I grew up in...Cuban Missile Crisis, MAD, Pershings and SS-20's in Europe...

514 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:44:26am

re: #509 Decatur Deb

Why would they vote for Santorum?

I have a minor answer from my question, from what I can tell the lawsuits (headed by "The Becket Fund" ) in CO and NC just started late last year so they were prepared to add the fed mandate.

515 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:44:51am

re: #510 ralphieboy

I suspect these orders come all the way from the Top. Benedict XVI is a real stickler for doctrine and dogma.

It's so bizarrely removed from the actual concerns and lives of Catholics. And when paired with the hierarchy's coverup of abusive priests, it really is putting an enormous strain on everyday Catholics to have such clueless leadership.

516 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:46:41am

re: #513 ralphieboy

I played the last bit of "Fail Safe" just to give my daughter an idea of the world I grew up in...Cuban Missile Crisis, MAD, Pershings and SS-20's in Europe...

We weren't allowed to have radios at the seminary, but we had two students in the dorm from the Dominican Republic. They had smuggled a shortwave to listen in on home. For the first few days of the missile crisis, all our news was their translations of Radio Havana.

517 Kronocide  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:48:03am

re: #495 Decatur Deb

Obama is at 60.1 on Intrade--the highest in a long while.

I'm constantly reminded of Limbaugh's repeated assertions when I listened to him in the early 90's: this is a conservative country, the GOP does better when it runs to the right.

Keep running to the right I say. It's working.

518 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:48:07am

re: #506 Decatur Deb

"Strangelove" worked off "Failsafe" and "Red Alert" (the other serious one of the time).

Quick Wiki:
Red Alert (novel) - 1958
Fail Safe (novel) - 1962
Fail Safe & Dr Strangelove (movie) - 1964

The novels play the issue straight. Dr Strangelove is an adaption of Red Alert converted into a black comedy. Fail Safe was held to be close enough to Red Alert that there was a law suit with an out of court settlement.

519 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:53:22am

re: #518 Dept of the Current Danger

Quick Wiki:
Red Alert (novel) - 1958
Fail Safe (novel) - 1962
Fail Safe & Dr Strangelove (movie) - 1964

The novels play the issue straight. Dr Strangelove is an adaption of Red Alert converted into a black comedy. Fail Safe was held to be close enough to Red Alert that there was a law suit with an out of court settlement.

Fairly sure I remember "Red Alert" as a movie, too, with William Holden. (The serious stories do run together--the comedy stands out over the decades. Lesson there.)

520 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:53:49am

re: #518 Dept of the Current Danger

There is a great but goddamn depressing graphic novel "Where the Wind Blows" that's about a nuclear attack on Britain, as seen from the perspective of two very ordinary people. Well worth reading, but goddamn, it's dark.

521 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:55:21am

re: #520 Obdicut

There is a great but goddamn depressing graphic novel "Where the Wind Blows" that's about a nuclear attack on Britain, as seen from the perspective of two very ordinary people. Well worth reading, but goddamn, it's dark.

Kinda tough to do a straight novel of a nuclear attack without being dark, honestly.

522 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:56:18am

re: #521 thedopefishlives

Kinda tough to do a straight novel of a nuclear attack without being dark, honestly.

This one has a sweet old couple slowly dying of radiation poisoning. It goes the extra mile.

523 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:57:07am

re: #522 Obdicut

This one has a sweet old couple slowly dying of radiation poisoning. It goes the extra mile.

For a lot of that, go all the way back to "On the Beach", book and movie.

524 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:00:19am

When we emerge from our mineshafts, after several decades, contraception will be a serious moral and social evil.

525 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:05:45am

Here's my opinion (as a non-Catholic).

Yesterday was listening to a talk radio show and callers were saying (and the host was agreeing) that this is about getting Catholics to shut down charity care, schools, and Hospitals and leaving more room open for Obamacare. And eventually, removing thereligion from all things America.

This language is as helpful as shouting "priests are predators".

Both "speak" is just not helpful to the conversation and is a strawman in both instances.

I still have a big First Amendment problem with this. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", these two ideas are on a clash course with each other.

But I don't have nearly the brains to settle it.

526 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:06:46am

Off to the working.

527 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:08:39am

Dog heard me typing--BBL

528 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:09:15am

re: #525 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is no first amendment issue to this at all. The Catholic Church isn't required to say that it likes contraception. When they're running businesses, they have to provide health coverage to their employees that includes contraception. This isn't something applies to the religious side of what they do, but the secular.

529 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:11:34am

re: #525 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Here's my opinion (as a non-Catholic).

Yesterday was listening to a talk radio show and callers were saying (and the host was agreeing) that this is about getting Catholics to shut down charity care, schools, and Hospitals and leaving more room open for Obamacare. And eventually, removing thereligion from all things America.

This language is as helpful as shouting "priests are predators".

Both "speak" is just not helpful to the conversation and is a strawman in both instances.

I still have a big First Amendment problem with this. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", these two ideas are on a clash course with each other.

But I don't have nearly the brains to settle it.

I find it interesting that this postulates that the Catholic Church will completely shut-down charity, schools, and hospitals instead of offering their employees the opportunity to use healthcare insurance to get contraception.

This is "cutting off your nose to spite your face" territory.

530 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:14:40am

Three cheers for Oklahoma!

the amendment would outlaw masturbation by men, and all forms of sexual activity “in which a man ejaculates or otherwise deposits semen anywhere but in a woman’s vagina shall be interpreted and construed as an action against an unborn child.”

531 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:15:25am

re: #529 Dept of the Current Danger

I find it interesting that this postulates that the Catholic Church will completely shut-down charity, schools, and hospitals instead of offering their employees the opportunity to use healthcare insurance to get contraception.

This is "cutting off your nose to spite your face" territory.

Or, for that matter, change their personnel compensation policies to go out of the insurance premium business.

532 Flounder  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:15:26am

re: #528 Obdicut
Catholic church is a business?
Interesting way to look at it.

533 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:16:23am

re: #530 darthstar

Three cheers for Oklahoma!

Actually, I think that is a snarky Dem poison pill for a "personhood" bill.

534 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:17:18am

re: #533 Decatur Deb

Actually, I think that is a snarky Dem poison pill for a "personhood" bill.

Came up yesterday. It was withdrawn afterwards. I think there's a page on it. (Every Sperm is Sacred?)

535 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:17:55am

re: #532 Tommy

Catholic church is a business?
Interesting way to look at it.

Many of its institutional functions are incorporated.

536 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:25am

re: #532 Tommy

Catholic church is a business?
Interesting way to look at it.

Well, the sponsored hospitals, schools, etc. are essentially businesses. Non-profit, but still a business. And thus should be subject to the applicable rules.

537 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:58am

We don't need no STINKIN' 16" guns!

The United States Navy will receive the industries first 32 megajoule EM Railgun prototype and begin testing in the coming weeks.

538 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:21:51am

re: #536 Dept of the Current Danger

Well, the sponsored hospitals, schools, etc. are essentially businesses. Non-profit, but still a business. And thus should be subject to the applicable rules.

There is also a complex entangling of traditional Catholic hospitals with for-profit corps like Humana. There are very few Catholic hospitals administered by nuns/priests.

539 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:23:22am

re: #519 Decatur Deb

Fairly sure I remember "Red Alert" as a movie, too, with William Holden. (The serious stories do run together--the comedy stands out over the decades. Lesson there.)

No luck finding it on Wikipedia. Looked at the Holden filmography there and also the entry for the novel.

540 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:29:14am

Assalamualeikum, peepz.

541 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:29:26am

re: #539 Dept of the Current Danger

No luck finding it on Wikipedia. Looked at the Holden filmography there and also the entry for the novel.

It was the sixties--if I remembered it, I wasn't there.

542 Flounder  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:30:57am

re: #537 thedopefishlives

Great article, my inner seadog is a little rusty. When I retire, I will have to get an ocean going sail boat, and a little ankle biting dog, and a girlfriend (don't tell the wife)
Oh yeah, my sailboat will have a friggin railgun yeah! Solar powered of course.

543 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:32:34am

Dog's patience is at an end--Later.

544 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:33:22am

re: #543 Decatur Deb

Dog's patience is at an end--Later.

[Link: www.redmeat.com...]

545 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:36:28am

Morning Honcos. Been a while.

546 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:36:35am

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Colbert can go fuck himself. That "definition" is rotten, as it casts aspersions against an entire extended family. Hell, it also applies to both Rick Santorum's children (some of whom are in school and may suffer greatly from this 'definition') and to the children of his two siblings. Why should all those people be maligned solely to cast a juvenile insult at man?

There's some truth in what you say. And it's not entirely fair other people should suffer. But I prefer to think that's something he brought on himself and his family. Kinda like other infamous historical personages.

547 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:37:00am

re: #545 Cannadian Club Akbar

Shalom.

548 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:37:09am

re: #540 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Assalamualeikum, peepz.

It's taken me THIS long to figure out who the hell you are.

549 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:38:06am

I just got an email in my spam email from Rick Santorum.

"Time to Choose."

Don't know what the text is. Didn't check. Not choosing Santorum.

550 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:38:36am

re: #542 Tommy

Great article, my inner seadog is a little rusty. When I retire, I will have to get an ocean going sail boat, and a little ankle biting dog, and a girlfriend (don't tell the wife)
Oh yeah, my sailboat will have a friggin railgun yeah! Solar powered of course.

Take your sailboat down to the Persian Gulf and go pirate-sniping with it. 100 points for every mile between you and the target if you connect.

551 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:38:43am

re: #547 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Shalom.

Pork Chop.
with fried taters

552 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:39:07am

re: #545 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos. Been a while.

What up, CCA? How's it hangin'?

553 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:39:41am

re: #549 Ooh, look, shiny...

I just got an email in my spam email from Rick Santorum.

"Time to Choose."

Don't know what the text is. Didn't check. Not choosing Santorum.

I thought Santorum was anti-choice.

554 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:40:21am

re: #551 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pork Chop.
with fried taters

Kindly Sir, Fuck Off.
//yes, you almost always choose the exact time when I'm hungry ;)

555 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:40:37am

re: #552 darthstar

What up, CCA? How's it hangin'?

I wanted to sit here for a bit but I have to roll up and go outside (I'm at the lieberrie) because I have to make some phone calls. Things just cant be easy....

556 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:41:15am

re: #554 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Kindly Sir, Fuck Off.
//yes, you almost always choose the exact time when I'm hungry ;)

Joke's on you!! I'm not kindly!!!!
/

557 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:41:29am

re: #555 Cannadian Club Akbar

I wanted to sit here for a bit but I have to roll up and go outside (I'm at the lieberrie) because I have to make some phone calls. Things just cant be easy...

Good to see you all the same.

558 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:42:14am

re: #556 Cannadian Club Akbar

Where've you been, anyway?

559 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:42:48am

re: #557 darthstar

Good to see you all the same.

Actually, got a note on FB from an old friend about a job and it is a week old. So I need to call her. This is why I need to step outside.

560 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:43:04am

re: #500 RogueOne

A rundown of the list:

The HHS Rule & The States
[Link: ordinary-gentlemen.com...]
States that appear to require contraception coverage for religious institutions (10):
Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin

After further review I think the statement that states "require contraceptive coverage for religious institutions" isn't exactly accurate. Some of those states (GA, NH, OH, VA, CO, WA) mandate that insurance providers include contraceptive coverage which is a distinction and the others do have exemptions for groups that self insure (IA, IL)...

A listing of all the state laws regarding contraceptives in case I've misread something:

[Link: www.ncsl.org...]

Anyone have any idea on how to come up with a list of lawsuits involving this? I've only found the two, CO and NC, because they're both being handled by the same group.

561 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:43:17am

re: #549 Ooh, look, shiny...

I just got an email in my spam email from Rick Santorum.

"Time to Choose."

Don't know what the text is. Didn't check. Not choosing Santorum.

Heh, I got a robo call from Romney yesterday here in NJ. Hung up and didn't think twice about doing so. They get a speed reader to say who is sponsoring the call (barely discernable) and then go into Mitt reading a prepared text. *click*

562 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:43:32am

re: #558 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Where've you been, anyway?

I'm working 6 days a week and getting...wait for it....28 hours a week.

563 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:44:45am

re: #561 lawhawk

Heh, I got a robo call from Romney yesterday here in NJ. Hung up and didn't think twice about doing so. They get a speed reader to say who is sponsoring the call (barely discernable) and then go into Mitt reading a prepared text. *click*

You realize someone is getting paid to run those, why do you hate jobs!

564 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:45:08am

re: #562 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm working 6 days a week and getting...wait for it...28 hours a week.

Restaurant work?

565 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:46:03am

So I'm sitting down by the water, drinking a coffee ($1.75), smoking a Pall Mall ($4.25 a pack) wearing Rockport shoes ($60) and Calvin Klein jeans ($75) with my new backpack ($75-but I got it for $40 online). My backpack holds my $900 laptop. I'm just waiting for the lieberrie to open to get online. A couple cops walk up to chat. Then one of them ask how long I've been homeless. Maybe it's because I'm wearing a Crown Royal T-shirt. So my day is going swimmingly thus far.

This is my FB post from earlier.....

566 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:46:52am

re: #564 RogueOne

Restaurant work?

Yes. Nightmare. Everyone is on drugs or stoopid.

567 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:47:51am

I'm really tired of being cranky.:)

568 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:47:55am

re: #565 Cannadian Club Akbar

So I'm sitting down by the water, drinking a coffee ($1.75), smoking a Pall Mall ($4.25 a pack) wearing Rockport shoes ($60) and Calvin Klein jeans ($75) with my new backpack ($75-but I got it for $40 online). My backpack holds my $900 laptop. I'm just waiting for the lieberrie to open to get online. A couple cops walk up to chat. Then one of them ask how long I've been homeless. Maybe it's because I'm wearing a Crown Royal T-shirt. So my day is going swimmingly thus far.

This is my FB post from earlier...

It sounds like you need a haircut? Maybe they heard you say lieberrie and that was the tip-off? If not, try a new brand of deodorant.

As my son's ballroom dance teacher told the class, deodorant = friends.

//

569 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:48:55am

re: #568 Ooh, look, shiny...

It sounds like you need a haircut? Maybe they heard you say lieberrie and that was the tip-off? If not, try a new brand of deodorant.

As my son's ballroom dance teacher told the class, deodorant = friends.

//

You got a problem with hippies?!!
///

570 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:50:47am

re: #569 Cannadian Club Akbar

You got a problem with hippies?!!
///

Actually, I have a much bigger problem (as in issue I have to deal with) with middle schoolers failing to remember deodorant.

571 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:50:55am

re: #560 RogueOne

After further review I think the statement that states "require contraceptive coverage for religious institutions" isn't exactly accurate. Some of those states (GA, NH, OH, VA, CO, WA) mandate that insurance providers include contraceptive coverage which is a distinction and the others do have exemptions for groups that self insure (IA, IL)...

A listing of all the state laws regarding contraceptives in case I've misread something:

[Link: www.ncsl.org...]

Anyone have any idea on how to come up with a list of lawsuits involving this? I've only found the two, CO and NC, because they're both being handled by the same group.

Dunno how to come up with a list, but in the cases of both New York and California the process has ended; the Supreme Court denied cert for the respective appeals. In both case the plaintiffs included the Catholics.

572 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:52:43am

re: #570 Ooh, look, shiny...

Actually, I have a much bigger problem (as in issue I have to deal with) with middle schoolers failing to remember deodorant.

When they start to smell like tacos or chicken soup, take away the PS3.

573 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:55:32am

re: #571 kirkspencer

Dunno how to come up with a list, but in the cases of both New York and California the process has ended; the Supreme Court denied cert for the respective appeals. In both case the plaintiffs included the Catholics.

From what I've read the HHS decision was based on the CA narrow ruling of "religious organization". Was the CA decision based on their exemption (self insure)? I'm curious because it doesn't seem that the HHS decision allows for self insured groups to bypass the contraception rule.

574 Flounder  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:55:50am

re: #572 Cannadian Club Akbar

That reminds of an episode of South Park, with Hot Pockets and World of Warcraft. Where was this crap when I was a kid?!

575 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:55:53am

Douche.
ST. PETERSBURG — A 25-year-old man was arrested early Wednesday after he was accused of raping a mentally disabled 17-year-old girl who was walking home.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

576 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:56:01am

re: #572 Cannadian Club Akbar

so,,, how long HAVE you been homeless!?!?

//

577 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:56:47am

re: #573 RogueOne

Edited for clarity.

578 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:57:08am

re: #574 Tommy

That reminds of an episode of South Park, with Hot Pockets and World of Warcraft. Where was this crap when I was a kid?!

Just play Space Invaders and eat your ravioli!!
//

579 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:57:13am

re: #574 Tommy

That reminds of an episode of South Park, with Hot Pockets and World of Warcraft. Where was this crap when I was a kid?!

580 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:57:25am

re: #566 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. Nightmare. Everyone is on drugs or stoopid.

If everyone is on drugs or stoopid, are you saying that drugs make people less stupid?

See, I got a personal interest in this one.

581 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:57:33am

re: #578 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just play Space Invaders and eat your ravioli! Chef Boy R D!
//

582 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:58:00am

re: #576 sattv4u2

so,,, how long HAVE you been homeless!?!?

//

I actually have to call my lawyer. I got a letter about my house. (still not homeless, though)

583 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:01:44am

re: #580 BongCrodny

If everyone is on drugs or stoopid, are you saying that drugs make people less stupid?

See, I got a personal interest in this one.

You getting confused with the new names too?

584 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:06:43am

re: #566 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. Nightmare. Everyone is on drugs or stoopid.

The other workers, or the customers?

585 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:07:15am

re: #583 RogueOne

You getting confused with the new names too?

I got confused a long time before the new names.

586 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:08:25am

re: #573 RogueOne

From what I've read the HHS decision was based on the CA exemption. Was the CA decision based on that exemption (self insure)? I'm curious because it doesn't seem that the HHS decision allows for self insured groups to bypass the contraception rule.

Here's a link to the decision of the California Supreme Court, which case the US Supreme Court refused to hear on appeal. (link is to povertylaw. If you are uncomfortable with that, the googlesearch is "Catholic Charities v Superior Court of Sacramento")

The case was not about self-insured exemptions. It was, instead, about whether Catholic Charities qualified for the exemption. That said, I think this paragraph may answer your question (at least in part).

Smith explained that the government' s ability to enforce generally applicable prohibitions of socially harmful conduct or to carry out public policy "' cannot depend on measuring the effects of a governmental action on a religious objector' s spiritual development.' [Citation.] To make an individual' s obligation to obey such a law contingent upon the law' s coincidence with his religious beliefs, except where the State' s interest is ' compelling' --permitting him, by virtue of his beliefs, ' to become a law unto himself,' [citation]--contradicts both constitutional tradition and common sense." (Smith, supra, 494 U.S. at p. 885 [108 L.Ed.2d at p. 890], fn. omitted.) Applying the compelling government interest test in this fashion would produce "a private right to ignore generally applicable laws--[which would be] a constitutional anomaly." (Id. at p. 886 [108 L.Ed.2d at p. 890].)

587 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:08:51am

re: #584 Dept of the Current Danger

The other workers, or the customers?

The other workers, except a few. All the customers are 90+, but they have money. By 8PM, we have nothing going on. Which is why I get no hours.

588 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:11:57am

Not sure if anyone has seen this. Interesting.
Several years ago, prior to my retirement from the CIA, I was meeting with a senior Iranian asset in the Middle East. I had finished debriefing him on the intelligence he had to provide, and we had launched into a more expansive conversation about the overall direction of American policy toward Iran. I was trying to explain the rationale behind our sanctions regime and the thought process that had led us to conclude that we could persuade the Islamic Republic of Iran to modify its behavior.
The asset interrupted me. "You really don't have any idea who you are dealing with, do you?" he asked. I told him I was not sure I understood what he meant.

The source elaborated. We were under the illusion we were dealing with rational actors. We were not. We were under the illusion we were playing a game, which would stretch out over many years. Our adversaries in Iran shared no such belief. They expected this conflict to reach its climax in the very near future.
[Link: duke1.tbo.com...]
Read this.

589 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:13:18am

Having some stupid fun with stupud chacha.com. Gosh, do they have stupid guides there:


- Is evolution true?

[No one knows if evolution is true. It depends on your beliefs. Thanks for using ChaCha!, It is debatable some believe it is some do not. If evolution is true, then it is proof that the Bible is false., Evolution has not yet been proved true or false.As you said the scientific evidence is kind of weak.]

590 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:14:10am

re: #589 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Having some stupid fun with stupud chacha.com. Gosh, do they have stupid guides there>


- Is evolution true?

Did you ask if the Bible is true?

591 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:14:51am

re: #569 Cannadian Club Akbar

You got a problem with hippies?!!
///

Officer Pepperspray does.

592 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:03am

Go piss up a rope!

Hi everyone...miss me?
//

593 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:31am

re: #592 Mandy Manners

Go piss up a rope!

Hi everyone...miss me?
//

Okay...that's scary enough...going back to darth.

594 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:39am

re: #586 kirkspencer

Thanks. It seems in this case it was a pretty easy decision:

As mentioned, the WCEA permits a “religious employer” to offer prescription drug insurance without coverage for contraceptives that violate the employer’s religious tenets.....
....
Catholic Charities does not qualify as a “religious employer” under the
WCEA because it does not meet any of the definition’s four criteria. (See Health & Saf. Code, § 1367.25, subd. (b)(1)(A)-(D).) The organization candidly acknowledges this in its complaint, offering the following explanation: .....

595 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:42am

re: #588 Cannadian Club Akbar

This Mahdi stuff is known. What I would like to see is the verifiable info on how much it actually influences anything. This article is probably just a part of the push for the war.

596 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:16:21am

re: #592 Mandy Manners

Go piss up a rope!

Hi everyone...miss me?
//

Never had a pleasure of meeting you, Ms. Manners. But read some of your stuff.

597 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:16:25am

Going to make some phone calls and see if the cops still think I'm homeless since I will be sitting by the marina. Sheesh. bbiab..

598 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:17:20am

re: #596 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Never had a pleasure of meeting you, Ms. Manners. But read some of your stuff.

Count yourself lucky.

599 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:17:35am

My new granddaughter's name is Ella Rivka!

600 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:18:05am

re: #597 Cannadian Club Akbar

Going to make some phone calls and see if the cops still think I'm homeless since I will be sitting by the marina. Sheesh. bbiab..

Marina? Better the cops think you're homeless than the Seals think you're a pirate.

601 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:18:53am

re: #595 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

This Mahdi stuff is known. What I would like to see is the verifiable info on how much it actually influences anything. This article is probably just a part of the push for the war.

Dinnerjacket is getting called in front of the Iranian congress (the equivalent). I haven't been able to look up any particulars. He and many in the gubment there are 12thers.

602 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:19:32am

re: #599 Look At My New Grandbaby!

My new granddaughter's name is Ella Rivka!

Congratulations! You're getting pretty good at this new grand-kid thing. This must be number three or four in the last two years.

603 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:19:56am

re: #599 Look At My New Grandbaby!

My new granddaughter's name is Ella Rivka!

Adds to the tribe, now with 125,747 people.
////

604 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:20:46am

OK. Serious. BBIAB.

605 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:20:57am

re: #602 darthstar

Congratulations! You're getting pretty good at this new grand-kid thing. This must be number three or four in the last two years.

This is #4 in the past year!

606 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:21:05am

re: #601 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dinnerjacket is getting called in front of the Iranian congress (the equivalent). I haven't been able to look up any particulars. He and many in the gubment there are 12thers.

Yeah, I know, but I've also read that his brand of 12'ism, and esp. some film produced by ppl close to him with end-times themes, are a cause of concern to Khamenei. Which is why Ahmadinejad is in hot water, etc. So it just doesn't seem to me that this belief is so monolithic.

607 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:21:44am

With everybody else on contraceptives, our plan to take over the world is proceeding nicely!

BWAHAHAA!

608 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:21:57am

re: #603 Cannadian Club Akbar

Adds to the tribe, now with 125,747 people.
///

It's only a matter of time before Alouette can start her own occupy movement.

609 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:22:21am

re: #605 Look At My New Grandbaby!

This is #4 in the past year!

You've got some fertile genes in your family.

610 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:22:40am

re: #607 Look At My New Grandbaby!

With everybody else on contraceptives, our plan to take over the world is proceeding nicely!

BWAHAHAA!

Any greatgrandkids in planning stage now?

611 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:23:00am

re: #609 darthstar

You've got some fertile genes in your family.

At some point it's just a chain reaction. /

612 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:23:18am

And another thing!

Hiccup

613 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:23:35am

re: #610 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Any greatgrandkids in planning stage now?

My oldest grandkid is 16, we don't marry them off that early.

614 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:23:55am

re: #613 Look At My New Grandbaby!

My oldest grandkid is 16, we don't marry them off that early.

Oh, but soon.

615 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:24:23am

re: #599 Look At My New Grandbaby!

My new granddaughter's name is Ella Rivka!

A pleasant name for a pleasant little girl. Mazel Tov.

616 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:25:00am

re: #594 RogueOne

Thanks. It seems in this case it was a pretty easy decision:

And in this case, yes, the HHS rule strongly resembles the California rule.

If you read what the Catholic Bishops are writing, the bottom line is that they don't think there should be any contraceptive requirement. The exemption they want is not solely for the church (which is already there) but for any employer who wants to claim a religious exemption based upon his or her faith.

The courts have consistently said that mandating the actions of companies and organizations cannot be denied on personal issues of faith. Somewhat simplistically, they're saying the corporation as a person must have its own faith to allow the exemption; that the faith of those who guide it is no more applicable than a parent's faith in regard to matters of an adult offspring.

617 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:25:03am

re: #593 darthstar

Okay...that's scary enough...going back to darth.

The funny thing is, anyone looking at the original post and not one of the quotes will wonder what in the heck you were smoking.

618 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:25:19am

re: #612 Gus

Morning Gus. Yesterday you asked about the first WA shooting/home explosion after I bailed. It was Steve Stanbary:

Steve Stanbary likely shot wife, sister-in-law before fire at Washougal home, police say
[Link: www.oregonlive.com...]

619 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:25:55am

re: #608 darthstar

It's only a matter of time before Alouette can start her own occupy movement.

Or field her own (insert your favorite sport) team.

620 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:26:19am

re: #617 thedopefishlives

The funny thing is, anyone looking at the original post and not one of the quotes will wonder what in the heck you were smoking.

I always wonder that about Darth

621 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:26:48am

re: #619 lawhawk

Or field her own (insert your favorite sport) team.

She can already have her grandkids play themselves in many sports.

Problem is that a lot of them are toddlers, and that's not helpful in, say, basketball.

622 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:27:04am

re: #618 RogueOne

Morning Gus. Yesterday you asked about the first WA shooting/home explosion after I bailed. It was Steve Stanbary:

Steve Stanbary likely shot wife, sister-in-law before fire at Washougal home, police say
[Link: www.oregonlive.com...]

Ah. Yeah. Another honor killing! I say facetiously. Happens almost once a week across the land.

623 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:27:33am

re: #622 Gus

Ah. Yeah. Another honor killing! I say facetiously. Happens almost once a week across the land.

Shh, don't say that too loudly. The shrieking harpy might hear you and actually take you seriously.

624 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:28:02am

re: #623 thedopefishlives

Shh, don't say that too loudly. The shrieking harpy might hear you and actually take you seriously.

Wha? Space Jesus isn't a morning person.

//

625 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:28:57am

re: #617 thedopefishlives

The funny thing is, anyone looking at the original post and not one of the quotes will wonder what in the heck you were smoking.

Yep, which is why I quoted before switching back...I can't do the variable nick name thing. I find I'm clicking on everyone's avatar to find out who the fuck they are.

Feature Request, Charles: seeOthersDisplayName="FALSE"

626 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:30:26am

re: #625 darthstar

Yep, which is why I quoted before switching back...I can't do the variable nick name thing. I find I'm clicking on everyone's avatar to find out who the fuck they are.

Feature Request, Charles: seeOthersDisplayName="FALSE"

You don't have to click, you need to hover.
And no, the feature you request would defeat the purpose.

627 RogueOne  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:31:02am

Heeehee, I'm pretty sure this is the plot to a spongebob episode:

A Cop Chased Himself For 20 Minutes Because CCTV Confused Him With a Suspect
[Link: gizmodo.com...]

On a cold, dark night on the mean streets of the UK, an undercover police officer was radioed and informed that a potential suspect was close by. Keen to do the right thing, he set off in hot pursuit. Twenty fraught minutes later, he learned he'd been chasing... himself.

The CCTV operator reported to police that someone was 'acting suspiciously', according to The Telegraph. Unfortunately, the officer who decided to follow up on the report was actually the shadowy figure in question. Sadly, the name of the officer and exact location haven't been disclosed, but it happened somewhere in the south of England.

The poor guy doing the chasing reassured the CCTV operator that he was "hot on the heels" of the suspect. Uh, at least until the police officer's boss turned up in the CCTV control room and recognized him.

628 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:31:36am

re: #621 Ooh, look, shiny...

She can already have her grandkids play themselves in many sports.

Problem is that a lot of them are toddlers, and that's not helpful in, say, basketball.

But we can get them started on chess. That is a more suitable game for Overlords in Training.

629 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:31:45am

re: #625 darthstar

Yep, which is why I quoted before switching back...I can't do the variable nick name thing. I find I'm clicking on everyone's avatar to find out who the fuck they are.

Feature Request, Charles:

Charles is doing feature requests? Let's see. I want a reclining seat with light shade, audio inputs and two cup-holders. Adjustable ottoman. Dark red Corinthian leather.

630 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:31:49am

re: #596 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Never had a pleasure of meeting you, Ms. Manners.

Neither did anyone else.

631 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:32:46am

re: #628 Look At My New Grandbaby!

But we can get them started on chess. That is a more suitable game for Overlords in Training.

We'll introduce them to Skyrim and foil your evil plans at the outset! BWAHAHAHA!/

632 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:36:39am

re: #626 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

You don't have to click, you need to hover.
And no, the feature you request would defeat the purpose.

Ooh..hovering is good. Thanks.

So wtf does your handle mean?

633 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:37:24am

re: #632 darthstar

Ooh..hovering is good. Thanks.

So wtf does your handle mean?

"Butterball, The Halal Turkey of Jihad"

634 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:37:42am

re: #629 Gus

Charles is doing feature requests? Let's see. I want a reclining seat with light shade, audio inputs and two cup-holders. Adjustable ottoman. Dark red Corinthian leather.

I thought they banned the harvesting of Corinthians in the old testament.

635 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:38:47am

re: #627 RogueOne

Heeehee, I'm pretty sure this is the plot to a spongebob episode:

A Cop Chased Himself For 20 Minutes Because CCTV Confused Him With a Suspect
[Link: gizmodo.com...]

Good thing the Medusa software was not activated at that time or they'd be short of a policeman.
(SF reference)

636 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:39:09am

re: #633 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

"Butterball, The Halal Turkey of Jihad"

Hey Joe. Waddya got in the Halal lunchbox?

//

637 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:39:19am

re: #633 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

"Butterball, The Halal Turkey of Jihad"

Bring on the cranberries.

638 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:39:41am

re: #629 Gus

Charles is doing feature requests? Let's see. I want a reclining seat with light shade, audio inputs and two cup-holders. Adjustable ottoman. Dark red Corinthian leather.

There's 801 Gussi ahead of you in line for getting that.
;)

639 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:39:43am

re: #636 Gus

Hey Joe. Waddya got in the Halal lunchbox?

//

It will make your tongue melt!

640 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:40:29am

re: #633 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

"Butterball, The Halal Turkey of Jihad"

Dammit, now I'm hungry.

641 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:40:29am

re: #639 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

It will make your tongue melt!

Dats da stoooooory.

//

642 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:41:35am

re: #631 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

We'll introduce them to Skyrim and foil your evil plans at the outset! BWAHAHAHA!/

I used to be hell-bent on world domination, until I took an arrow in the knee.

643 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:41:41am

re: #637 darthstar

Bring on the cranberries.

With or without yodeling?

644 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:42:07am

re: #642 negativ

I used to be hell-bent on world domination, until I took an arrow in the knee.

I'm kinda verging on a downding there.

//

645 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:42:43am

Ugh. On a serious note CPAC begins today and it looks like the media-blogging circle jerk has already begun.

646 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:44:06am

Good morning lizards!

I see the genocide continues in Syria...

Syria crisis: Shelling 'kills dozens' in restive Homs

The Syrian army has launched fresh mortar and rocket attacks in the city of Homs, as the government continues a push aimed at crushing rebel forces.

Activists say 95 people have been killed so far on Thursday. Hundreds have reportedly died since last week.

Homs, Syria's third-largest city, has been a leading focus of unrest in the 11-month uprising against President Bashar al-Assad's rule.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon condemned the "appalling brutality" of the onslaught.

The international community is struggling to find a way to resolve the crisis after Russia and China blocked a UN resolution drafted by Arab and European countries on Saturday.

647 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:44:47am

re: #646 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

I see the genocide continues in Syria...

Syria crisis: Shelling 'kills dozens' in restive Homs

Restive Homs? Restive?

648 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:44:50am

re: #645 Gus

Ugh. On a serious note CPAC begins today and it looks like the media-blogging circle jerk has already begun.

I'd go, but my hood is at the dry-cleaners.

649 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:45:01am

re: #645 Gus

Ugh. On a serious note CPAC begins today and it looks like the media-blogging circle jerk has already begun.

CPAC - that's where Romney dropped out of the race four years ago...yes, after only seven state primaries...and he WON Colorado with 60% of the vote, though he didn't quite reach 60% on Tuesday, did he....

650 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:45:09am

re: #648 Decatur Deb

I'd go, but my hood is at the dry-cleaners.

I put on my robe and Grand Wizard hat.

651 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:45:52am

re: #648 Decatur Deb

I'd go, but my hood is at the dry-cleaners.

There's always the clown make-up and suit.

652 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:45:55am

re: #650 thedopefishlives

I put on my robe and Grand Wizard hat.

Be careful they don't mistake you for a Hogwarts satanist.

653 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:18am

He be clown!

654 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:27am

re: #650 thedopefishlives

I put on my robe and Grand Wizard hat.

Uh. Oh.

655 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:39am

re: #650 thedopefishlives

I put on my robe and Grand Wizard hat.

Is that the one with wizard spelled on it with two "Z"s in gold lettering?

656 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:41am

Madonna fan asks Israel to delay Iran attack until after concert

For the love of Madonna...

An Israeli fan has apparently set up a Facebook group (I can’t find the actual page, which is in Hebrew, so if one of my peeps happens to find it, I’d be ever so grateful) pleading with Israel to postpone any possible attack on Iran until after the American pop singer’s slated performance in May.

"Bibi! No war with Iran until after Madonna's performance on May 29," the anonymous enthusiast pleads to Israeli Prime MInister Benjamin Netanyahu in the newly created group, AFP reports.

This person sounds deeply concerned with the finer points of world peace and democracy. What’s that old saying again? Oh right, you can’t spell “fanatic” without “fan.”

657 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:50am

re: #650 thedopefishlives

I put on my robe and Grand Wizard hat.

You really shouldn't wear white after Labor day anyway.

658 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:50am

re: #654 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Uh. Oh.

I concur.

//

659 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:47:15am

re: #653 Gus

He be clown!

Ixnay on the Ebonic-ay at CPAC.

660 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:47:55am

re: #647 Gus

Restive Homs? Restive?

The word "restive" means the opposite of what you expect a word like "restive" to mean.

661 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:48:25am

re: #660 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The word "restive" means the opposite of what you expect a word like "restive" to mean.

Ah. Yeah, I always do that.

662 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:48:31am

re: #657 darthstar

You really shouldn't wear white after Labor day anyway.

Aw, but it goes so well with my superior pasty white skin!

663 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:48:53am

English. That's why Spanish is a superior language!

//

664 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:49:20am

I hereby propose that we make Spanish the official language of these here United States.

665 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:49:49am

re: #664 Gus

I hereby propose that we make Spanish the official language of these here United States.

I si what you did there.

666 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:50:02am

re: #662 thedopefishlives

Aw, but it goes so well with my superior pasty white skin!

Some UV will help with that. Or some chemicals and you can go for the Oompa Loompa look.

667 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:50:38am

re: #664 Gus

I hereby propose that we make Spanish the official language of these here United States.

I Concur.

668 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:50:39am

re: #666 Dept of the Current Danger

Some UV will help with that. Or some chemicals and you can go for the Oompa Loompa look.

There can be only one John Boehner (thankfully).

669 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:50:55am

re: #666 Dept of the Current Danger

Some UV will help with that. Or some chemicals and you can go for the Oompa Loompa look.

You of the Debil.

670 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:52:18am

re: #667 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

I Concur.

[Video]

Dey tuk er jobs!

671 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:52:42am

re: #670 Gus

Dey tuk er jobs!

Pfeh. That's jeeeeerbs.

672 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:54:59am

re: #655 Dept of the Current Danger

Is that the one with wizard spelled on it with two "Z"s in gold lettering?

Sigh.

I just want one more Rincewind novel.

673 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:56:14am

Good take on the thread theme from Slate:

The Realities Vs. The Myths of Catholic-Affiliated Institutions

[Link: www.slate.com...]

674 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:56:18am

And we're off to a great start at CPAC!

Rubio Mocks Liberals For Not Owning 'Liberal' Label

Marco Rubio poked fun at liberals at CPAC Thursday morning by pointing out that they don't embrace the label "liberal" the same way conservatives embrace being called "conservatives." For example, Rubio continued, GOP primaries are about who is more like Ronald Reagan. You never see Democrats running on who's like Jimmy Carter.

Wow man. That's really deep. I bet it takes years of education and apprenticeship to come up with observations and rhetoric like that.

Hurr hurr! Derpity deepy derpy do!

675 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:56:59am

re: #647 Gus

Well, Assad's trying to pacify it.

676 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:57:57am

re: #674 Gus

And we're off to a great start at CPAC!

Rubio Mocks Liberals For Not Owning 'Liberal' Label

Wow man. That's really deep. I bet it takes years of education and apprenticeship to come up with observations and rhetoric like that.

Hurr hurr! Derpity deepy derpy do!

Idiot. Haven't called myself anything but liberal since Eisenhower.

677 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:58:04am

re: #674 Gus

And we're off to a great start at CPAC!

Rubio Mocks Liberals For Not Owning 'Liberal' Label

Wow man. That's really deep. I bet it takes years of education and apprenticeship to come up with observations and rhetoric like that.

Hurr hurr! Derpity deepy derpy do!

Because Jimmy Carter is supposed to be the left's Ronald Reagan. Right. That would be FDR.

678 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:58:12am

Yeah. They don't run on Jimmy Carter. I mean, look at John F. Kennedy and Franklin D. Roosevelt, etc. Roosevelt being the president during the greatest war ever faced by the the West and victorious. JFK being a part of the greatest accomplishment in science by landing a man (men) on the moon.

679 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:59:38am

re: #678 Gus

Yeah. They don't run on Jimmy Carter. I mean, look at John F. Kennedy and Franklin D. Roosevelt, etc. Roosevelt being the president during the greatest war ever faced by the the West and victorious. JFK being a part of the greatest accomplishment in science by landing a man (men) on the moon.

The moon landing happened during the Nixon administration, IIRC.

680 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:00:12am

re: #674 Gus

And we're off to a great start at CPAC!

Rubio Mocks Liberals For Not Owning 'Liberal' Label

Wow man. That's really deep. I bet it takes years of education and apprenticeship to come up with observations and rhetoric like that.

Hurr hurr! Derpity deepy derpy do!

Perhaps Rubio should talk to some, y'know, liberals.

I'll bet that Russ Feingold, Al Franken & Elizabeth Warren wouldn't run from that word (although they might prefer "progressive").

Don't exactly know where Jimmy Carter falls on the "liberal" scale, but I'd bet it's not too far to the left.

681 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:00:25am

re: #679 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The moon landing happened during the Nixon administration, IIRC.

Just like Truman won WWII.

682 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:00:31am

re: #679 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The moon landing happened during the Nixon administration, IIRC.

It originated with JFK. I can go through a list of JFK's accomplishments.

683 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:00:34am

re: #674 Gus

And we're off to a great start at CPAC!

Rubio Mocks Liberals For Not Owning 'Liberal' Label

Wow man. That's really deep. I bet it takes years of education and apprenticeship to come up with observations and rhetoric like that.

Hurr hurr! Derpity deepy derpy do!

Hey, if they can decide who liberals should compare themselves to, then why can't we go the other way around? I am shocked, SHOCKED that the GOP is not proud to embrace Herbert Hoover.

684 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:01:26am

re: #681 Decatur Deb

Just like Truman won WWII.

Well. In that case the Wright Brothers broke the sound barrier.

//

685 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:02:31am

re: #684 Gus

Well. In that case the Wright Brothers broke the sound barrier.

//

Blows me away that one of the Wrights got to see a Y-model B52.

686 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:02:42am

re: #683 thedopefishlives

Hey, if they can decide who liberals should compare themselves to, then why can't we go the other way around? I am shocked, SHOCKED that the GOP is not proud to embrace Herbert Hoover.

Or you know the last guy they elected to President.... George, what's his face.

687 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:03:26am

re: #674 Gus

And we're off to a great start at CPAC!

Rubio Mocks Liberals For Not Owning 'Liberal' Label

Wow man. That's really deep. I bet it takes years of education and apprenticeship to come up with observations and rhetoric like that.

Hurr hurr! Derpity deepy derpy do!

And you don't see Republicans running on Richard Nixon, see Marco I can play that stupid game too. And Carter wasn't a liberal. And crap if more liberals did embrace the liberal tag, Rubio would be saying that see they're extremist liberals. Really this guy's supposed to be the future of the GOP? Not impressed. More hollow rhetoric.

688 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:03:37am

re: #686 jamesfirecat

Or you know the last guy they elected to President... George, what's his face.

That's cause Dub was a liberal, silly!

689 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:03:44am

re: #686 jamesfirecat

Or you know the last guy they elected to President... George, what's his face.

He was a progressive spender!

690 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:04:59am

Running on the Reagan Brand™.

Lame!

691 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:05:39am

re: #673 Decatur Deb

Good take on the thread theme from Slate:

The Realities Vs. The Myths of Catholic-Affiliated Institutions

[Link: www.slate.com...]

That is pretty interesting. I never attended a Catholic affiliated school but I would have had I been capable both financially and intellectually applied to Georgetown. I think many people don't know GT is Catholic affiliated.

692 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:07:51am

Personally I think it's hilarious how all of them think they're the next Reagan. Sure be a guy who opened his presidential campaign talking about states rights where Civil Rights workers were kidnapped and then murdered and think nothing of it. Be a guy whose administration actually gave the Iranian regime arms and you know damn well if the Obama administration had anything like Iran-Contra, it would be used as proof as Obama's "secret Muslim loyalties." In some ways despite his great flaws, I am more of a fan of Nixon than Reagan.

693 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:08:24am

re: #692 HappyWarrior

Personally I think it's hilarious how all of them think they're the next Reagan. Sure be a guy who opened his presidential campaign talking about states rights where Civil Rights workers were kidnapped and then murdered and think nothing of it. Be a guy whose administration actually gave the Iranian regime arms and you know damn well if the Obama administration had anything like Iran-Contra, it would be used as proof as Obama's "secret Muslim loyalties." In some ways despite his great flaws, I am more of a fan of Nixon than Reagan.

James Watt

694 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:10:07am

re: #693 Gus

James Watt

Yeah another one of Ronnie's fine legacies there. Not just his idiocy regarding the Beach Boys but his bigoted comments about an environmental regulatory panel and his policies.

695 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:12:05am

re: #694 HappyWarrior

Yeah another one of Ronnie's fine legacies there. Not just his idiocy regarding the Beach Boys but his bigoted comments about an environmental regulatory panel and his policies.

Not only that but his appalling environmental policies. Watt's in particular.

696 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:13:02am

re: #691 HappyWarrior

That is pretty interesting. I never attended a Catholic affiliated school but I would have had I been capable both financially and intellectually applied to Georgetown. I think many people don't know GT is Catholic affiliated.

If it wasn't for their basketball program I suspect most Americans wouldn't know that Georgetown U existed.

697 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:13:35am

re: #695 Gus

Not only that but his appalling environmental policies. Watt's in particular.

No great reason to protect those redwoods when they're just going to burn up in the imminent apocalypse.

698 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:13:44am

Reagan Scandals:

• Iran-Contra Affair
• Department of Housing and Urban Development grant rigging
• Lobbying scandal
• EPA scandals
• Inslaw Affair
• Savings & loan crisis
• Debategate

699 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:14:17am

Morning all!

I'll go ahead and say it. It's about controlling sex. The Church wants to control it, some individuals and groups are trying to use government to control it.

I don't remember anything in the Constitution about sex, do you?

How is everyone?

700 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:14:33am

re: #696 Dept of the Current Danger

If it wasn't for their basketball program I suspect most Americans wouldn't know that Georgetown U existed.

Yeah I think UNC is like that too. Most people know it for its great basketball team but it's also a solid school.

701 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:15:18am

Trickle down economics. The beginning of wage stagnation.

702 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:16:12am

The beginning of the religious right's post-modern power through the help of Reagan.

703 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:16:40am

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson...

704 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:18:40am
705 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:19:23am

re: #668 darthstar

There can be only one John Boehner (thankfully).

The camera pulls away and in a receding shot we travel backwards through AC ducts, wiring conduits, and sewer lines. All goes dark for a while, and as light begins to creep back around the edges we soon emerge through the other end in a spot-lit warehouse where a lone technician smokes a cigarette and ticks off items on his clipboard as he examines a cylindrical tank containing orange-ish jelly and a humanoid figure. The technician knocks on the plexiglass. There's a rather stern rule against this, but when the cat's away...

The shape inside the tank doesn't seem to react. The technician sighs and moves on to the next tank, and the camera pans over his shoulder showing us that he's in a huge airplane hangar full of identical tanks, each one with its own occupant bobbing lazily in the orange nutritive fluid. As the shot recedes and we exit the hangar, we see the desgination "18" over the heavy steel door, through which crew are unloading large, unlabeled crates from a truck bearing the Tyson Chicken logo. We zoom near enough to a few workers to see that they, like the lab technician, like the tank occupants, all identically resemble John Boehner. We continue to pull away through a maze of unmarked buildings, past guard towers staffed by John Boehners with rifles and spotting scopes, through a gate that rolls closed behind us. A nearby sign reads GROOM LAKE - AREA 51 - NO ADMISSION BEYOND THIS POINT - LETHAL FORCE AUTHORIZED.

706 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:19:32am

Drones!
U.S. drone strike kills Al Qaeda-linked militant leader in Pakistan

The predawn strike occurred in North Waziristan, the volatile tribal region that serves as sanctuary for several militant groups, including the Pakistani Taliban and the wing of the Afghan Taliban known as the Haqqani network. The blast hit Mansoor’s compound near a cattle market in Miram Shah, North Waziristan’s largest town.

Pakistani intelligence sources described Mansoor as an Al Qaeda operative who also led a faction of the Pakistani Taliban, the country’s homegrown insurgency. He was believed to be from Punjab, Pakistan’s most populous province, and was responsible for bringing scores of Punjabi militants to Taliban camps in North Waziristan.

707 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:21:08am

re: #699 ggt

Morning all!

I'll go ahead and say it. It's about controlling sex. The Church wants to control it, some individuals and groups are trying to use government to control it.

I don't remember anything in the Constitution about sex, do you?

How is everyone?

Every other line in the Declaration of Independence was written in invisible ink about sex. Jefferson knew about subliminal advertising.
/

708 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:21:30am

re: #706 Killgore Trout

Drones!
U.S. drone strike kills Al Qaeda-linked militant leader in Pakistan

Obama is distorting the Pakistani insurance market too.

709 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:23:54am

re: #706 Killgore Trout

Drones!
U.S. drone strike kills Al Qaeda-linked militant leader in Pakistan

This is interesting...

Drone Hysteria is Stupid

The Reaper drone above is fitted for death and destruction by retail. The weapons mounted on those wings are designed for accurate destruction of specific targets, not carpet-bombing a valley. Anyone who raves about a Reaper drone annihilating entire villages is full of horse shit: that’s not what they’re for, and it doesn’t describe what they do.

Continues.

710 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:30:12am

re: #515 Obdicut

It's so bizarrely removed from the actual concerns and lives of Catholics. And when paired with the hierarchy's coverup of abusive priests, it really is putting an enormous strain on everyday Catholics to have such clueless leadership.

Remember, Rick Santorum tells us that it was the sexually permissive atmosphere of the 60's that led all those priests to abuse their flock...

711 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:31:33am

re: #709 Gus

This is interesting...

Drone Hysteria is Stupid

Didn't know that the company that made them was called General Atomics.

And from the payload and electronics data on Wikipedia it can be loaded with a few JDAM kitted bombs, or even a cluster bomb. In which case they would have the capability of wider destruction as compared to doing fairly pin-point shots using Hellfire ATGMs.

712 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:32:15am

re: #710 ralphieboy

Remember, Rick Santorum tells us that it was the sexually permissive atmosphere of the 60's that led all those priests to abuse their flock...

Rick Santorum isn't qualified to lead much more than a Boy Scout troop. Frankly, like Michelle Bachmann, that level of leadership is probably where he is most effective.

Peter Principle?

713 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:32:40am

re: #711 Dept of the Current Danger

Didn't know that the company that made them was called General Atomics.

And from the payload and electronics data on Wikipedia it can be loaded with a few JDAM kitted bombs, or even a cluster bomb. In which case they would have the capability of wider destruction as compared to doing fairly pin-point shots using Hellfire ATGMs.

I read that as Kitten Bombs and actually got scared.

:0

714 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:33:43am

re: #713 ggt

I read that as Kitten Bombs and actually got scared.

:0

Death by Cute!

715 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:34:10am

re: #714 Dept of the Current Danger

Death by Cute!

Death by 1,000 hairballs!

716 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:34:10am

re: #714 Dept of the Current Danger

Death by Cute!

It could happen!

717 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:35:23am

re: #712 ggt

Rick Santorum isn't qualified to lead much more than a Boy Scout troop.

And yet he won three states the other day. Also, he's batshit insane:

Santorum: Obama Has Put America On ‘The Path’ Of Executing Religious People By Decapitation

718 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:35:28am

What ever happened to "if you accept federal funds, you have to follow federal law?"

719 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:35:30am

re: #716 ggt

It could happen!

The kitten/cat bomb is a functional defense feature in Dwarf Fortress.
:)

720 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:35:41am

They sneak into fox holes in the dead of night and knead our soldiers to death!

721 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:35:51am

re: #717 Lidane

And yet he won three states the other day. Also, he's batshit insane:

Santorum: Obama Has Put America On ‘The Path’ Of Executing Religious People By Decapitation

Of course he is.

722 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:36:12am

re: #589 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Having some stupid fun with stupud chacha.com. Gosh, do they have stupid guides there:

- Is evolution true?

If Evolution is true, it does preclude a literal interpretation of the Bible.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem that fundamentalists have with it.

723 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:36:28am

re: #720 Gus

They sneak into fox holes in the dead of night and knead our soldiers to death!

Or fly at them razor sharp kitten claws extended.

724 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:37:29am

re: #722 ralphieboy

If Evolution is true, it does preclude a literal interpretation of the Bible.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem that fundamentalists have with it.

Then we are back to, "How can you interpret literally, a document that has been translated and interpreted in and from a gazillion different languages in 2000 years?"

duh

725 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:37:52am

re: #723 ggt

Or fly at them razor sharp kitten claws extended.

Rambo kittens and cats!

Image: cat6.jpg
Image: sniper_kitten.jpg
Image: image.jpg

726 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:38:27am

re: #717 Lidane

And yet he won three states the other day. Also, he's batshit insane:

Santorum: Obama Has Put America On ‘The Path’ Of Executing Religious People By Decapitation

Sheesh- I knew Rick was batshit insane but that batshit insane. Great job Republicans, great fucking job. I am sure when Romney inevitably loses against Obama, it will because he wasn't "conservative enough."

727 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:38:40am

re: #716 ggt

It could happen!

(anime reference)
Puchuu?

728 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:39:16am

re: #717 Lidane

And yet he won three states the other day. Also, he's batshit insane:

Santorum: Obama Has Put America On ‘The Path’ Of Executing Religious People By Decapitation

Well, I was pressing for crucifixions on the National Mall, but if decapitation is all we can get...

729 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:39:27am

re: #699 ggt

Morning all!

I'll go ahead and say it. It's about controlling sex. The Church wants to control it, some individuals and groups are trying to use government to control it.

I don't remember anything in the Constitution about sex, do you?

How is everyone?

Actually I think sex is merely a tool. It is about control generally. The reason sex has always been a good one to exercise this control with is that it is basically instinctual and if you can exercise control over it everything else is like child's play.
The power of the great myths, is that once you buy into them, rationality has little place in the discussion. If you can convince someone that their "nature" is in fact a distortion (sin) you can control their behaviour with psychological pressure. They myths around sex and sexuality are strong and have rendered sex and sexuality some of the greatest points of leverage for religions.

Once sex or sexuality is not natural and is tied up in sin, so too can one argue that equality is not natural even though it seems to be. Women, though in nature,at least equal (actually more powerful), can be rendered second class by limiting the parameters of their nature.

Sex is one tool. There are others. For a list, read the bible.

730 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:39:39am

re: #725 Gus

Rambo kittens and cats!

Image: cat6.jpg
Image: sniper_kitten.jpg
Image: image.jpg

Too bad we can't just melt the hearts of the enemy and then treat them as toxic waste.

731 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:40:16am

re: #717 Lidane

And yet he won three states the other day. Also, he's batshit insane:

Santorum: Obama Has Put America On ‘The Path’ Of Executing Religious People By Decapitation

The guillotine is a whole bunch more humane than the methods used by the Inquisition.

732 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:41:03am

In a sane world, Romney would call Santorum out for that rhetoric and Santorum would sink in the polls. In the world of the batshit right however, Romney won't call him out on it and Santorum will be continued to be seen as "the true conservative" because of this.

733 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:41:11am

The War on Drugs is a failure. This has to stop.

734 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:41:34am

re: #732 HappyWarrior

In a sane world, Romney would call Santorum out for that rhetoric and Santorum would sink in the polls. In the world of the batshit right however, Romney won't call him out on it and Santorum will be continued to be seen as "the true conservative" because of this.

No True Conservative!

735 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:41:41am

re: #733 ggt

The War on Drugs is a failure. This has to stop.

Indeed. Hate reading stories like this.

736 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:42:58am
737 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:43:35am

re: #736 ggt

Bad Idea of the week.

I would totally support a Take Your Cat to Work Day. Except my feline overlord would be cowering in a corner somewhere.

738 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:43:56am

re: #712 ggt

Rick Santorum isn't qualified to lead much more than a Boy Scout troop. Frankly, like Michelle Bachmann, that level of leadership is probably where he is most effective.

I don't know about that. It would have to be a sad bunch of 8 year-olds with Stockholm Syndrome or something.

Remember in elementary school when you'd sometimes have a substitute teacher for a day or two? It was always a roll of the dice. You might get some dull and boring bump-on-a-log who just had you read all day, or it might be someone fun who had cool stories to tell. But sometimes it was a total sour-pus far more strict and authoritarian than your usual teacher, and I guaran-damn-tee you if it was a male, he wore a stupid sweater-vest.

sour-pus far more strict and authoritarian than your usual teacher

739 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:44:00am
740 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:44:04am

[Link: lovemeow.com...]

741 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:45:06am

I am amazed that Santorum got elected to the Senate twice in Pennsylvania. I know we have some Pennsylvanians here. Was he always this batshit insane? I know he was really socially conservative but still.

742 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:45:13am

re: #16 Kragar

I thought the Catholic alternative to birth control was altar boys?

These pedophile priests are too serious an issue, causing too devastatingly ruinous effects for the victims, for a flippant joke like this.

743 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:45:24am

re: #740 Gus

[Link: lovemeow.com...]

I've got a great idea and it's going to make me rich, rich, RICH! I say... I'm going to start a website devoted to cute cat and kitten pictures...

744 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:46:33am

re: #741 HappyWarrior

Was he always this batshit insane? I know he was really socially conservative but still.

Yes:

Flashback: Santorum Compared Democratic Effort To Block Pro-Enron Judge To Adolf Hitler

745 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:47:49am

re: #744 Lidane

Yes:

Flashback: Santorum Compared Democratic Effort To Block Pro-Enron Judge To Adolf Hitler

Seriously this guy is like how Mel Gibson was on South Park. He wants to be oppressed so bad yet he also wants to oppress.

746 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:48:46am

re: #745 HappyWarrior

Seriously this guy is like how Mel Gibson was on South Park. He wants to be oppressed so bad yet he also wants to oppress.

And his nipples hurt when he twists 'em!

747 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:50:23am

re: #746 Look At My New Grandbaby!

And his nipples hurt when he twists 'em!

"Come in Tokyo"/

748 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:53:35am

re: #741 HappyWarrior

I am amazed that Santorum got elected to the Senate twice in Pennsylvania. I know we have some Pennsylvanians here. Was he always this batshit insane? I know he was really socially conservative but still.

Not as obviously I think.

He was my House Rep before being Senator. For those elections he first upset a fossilized 7-term Democratic Party machine politician. His district was then gerrymandered a bit to make it 60% Democratic registered. He was opposed by a bump-on-the-log and won because the local Democratic Party was complacent again.

That got his conservative credientials solidly in place for at least western PA, and I do not recall him coming across as a complete nut.

For the Senate run he was opposed by the Democrat who had finished out Heinz' term after he was killed in a helicoptor crash. He won that in 1994 when the GOP made serious gains in Congress. His campaign in 2000 ended up being against a non-career politician (Ron Klink).

Since I've lived there Pennsylvania has had a tendency for leaning Democratic, going back and forth with the governor (term limits playing a role here), and generally having both Senators being Republicans.

749 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:54:42am
750 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:55:44am

So what does CNN write? 10 reasons to love Santorum (though it's really 10 reasons why religious conservatives like him).

Among the reasons: he challenges science (including AGW, evolution, and other established facts); he opposed same sex marriage, abortion, and has introduced legislation on same when as a member of Congress; he's not Newt; he's not Mitt (take that as you wish - he's not Mormon, he's not a flip-flopper, and he's always been this kind of extreme); he's a homeschooler (allowing indoctrination of his kids into the same kind of anti-science agenda for instance); and he's allegedly devout and a family man.

751 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:56:13am

re: #724 ggt

Then we are back to, "How can you interpret literally, a document that has been translated and interpreted in and from a gazillion different languages in 2000 years?"

duh

If the translation is decent, why not.

752 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:56:29am

re: #748 Dept of the Current Danger

Not as obviously I think.

He was my House Rep before being Senator. For those elections he first upset a fossilized 7-term Democratic Party machine politician. His district was then gerrymandered a bit to make it 60% Democratic registered. He was opposed by a bump-on-the-log and won because the local Democratic Party was complacent again.

That got his conservative credientials solidly in place for at least western PA, and I do not recall him coming across as a complete nut.

For the Senate run he was opposed by the Democrat who had finished out Heinz' term after he was killed in a helicoptor crash. He won that in 1994 when the GOP made serious gains in Congress. His campaign in 2000 ended up being against a non-career politician (Ron Klink).

Since I've lived there Pennsylvania has had a tendency for leaning Democratic, going back and forth with the governor (term limits playing a role here), and generally having both Senators being Republicans.

Gotcha so he had weak opponents. I wasn't shocked that Bob Casey beat him by a large margin in 2006. His father was a popular governor and Bob's the kind of Democrat that does well in Pennsylvania especially Western. Speaking of Western Pa, seems the Steelers new OC is a cousin of a family friend.

753 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:57:05am

re: #742 reine.de.tout

{{{reine.de.tout}}}

(for the old kitty...)

754 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:58:24am

re: #724 ggt

Then we are back to, "How can you interpret literally, a document that has been translated and interpreted in and from a gazillion different languages in 2000 years?"

duh

There are some people who are capable of reading scripture in the original language.

755 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:58:53am

re: #742 reine.de.tout

These pedophile priests are too serious an issue, causing too devastatingly ruinous effects for the victims, for a flippant joke like this.

ditto

756 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:59:09am

re: #751 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

If the translation is decent, why not.

How do you know what it really says? Unless you can read 2000 Aramaic, you can't really know. That is if you can find the original.

Song of Soloman could say, "Sex is fun."

757 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:59:13am

re: #742 reine.de.tout

re: #753 wrenchwench

{{{reine.de.tout}}}

(for the old kitty...)

again,, ditto

758 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:59:43am

re: #750 lawhawk

So what does CNN write? 10 reasons to love Santorum (though it's really 10 reasons why religious conservatives like him).

Among the reasons: he challenges science (including AGW, evolution, and other established facts); he opposed same sex marriage, abortion, and has introduced legislation on same when as a member of Congress; he's not Newt; he's not Mitt (take that as you wish - he's not Mormon, he's not a flip-flopper, and he's always been this kind of extreme); he's a homeschooler (allowing indoctrination of his kids into the same kind of anti-science agenda for instance); and he's allegedly devout and a family man.

This is what passes for journalism today and what is Michael Gerson smoking? Santorum's not a compassionate conservative. He looks down on the downtrodden.

759 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:00:19am

re: #756 ggt

How do you know what it really says? Unless you can read 2000 Aramaic, you can't really know. That is if you can find the original.

Song of Soloman could say, "Sex is fun."

Only if you play it backwards at 45 rpm's !
/

760 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:00:24am

re: #756 ggt

How do you know what it really says? Unless you can read 2000 Aramaic, you can't really know. That is if you can find the original.

Song of Soloman could say, "Sex is fun."

It's not a problem. There are many translations made by scholars. You can compare, etc.

761 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:00:47am

re: #756 ggt

How do you know what it really says? Unless you can read 2000 Aramaic, you can't really know. That is if you can find the original.

Zedushka's library at home is full of volumes that contain the original text.

Song of Soloman could say, "Sex is fun."

Song of Solomon is not even about sex, at all.

762 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:02:40am

re: #754 Look At My New Grandbaby!

There are some people who are capable of reading scripture in the original language.

Look, we know the KJV's English is a bit formal, but come on. It's not THAT hard to understand.

/fundie

763 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:02:43am

re: #761 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Zedushka's library at home is full of volumes that contain the original text.

Song of Solomon is not even about sex, at all.

So, does Zedushka think the King James is an accurate translation?

764 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:04:14am
765 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:05:08am

re: #763 ggt

So, does Zedushka think the King James is an accurate translation?

No.

766 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:05:11am

re: #203 brandoncraig

I don't think any credible person is for banning contraception but I understand the viewpoint that religious organizations who don't believe in it (no matter how wrong that idea might be) should not be forced by the federal government to pay for it for other people.

You think the insurance for the female employee would cover a prostate exam? Or the one for the male employee has coverage for prenatal care? Just because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it. As far as I know our insurance here at work is a one size fits all as far as male/female go, same package.

767 dell*nix  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:06:21am

Factory fresh F-15K for the airplane lovers here.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Rich has a nice collection of aircraft pics on his stream.

768 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:07:02am

re: #765 Look At My New Grandbaby!

No.

Is there one he would recommend?

769 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:07:38am

re: #763 ggt

So, does Zedushka think the King James is an accurate translation?

KJV is not the only translation, which is what matters. There are translations made by Christians in medieval times, they will have one kind of bias. There are more critical translations made by various Christian scholars in more modern times, they may be more objective due to a large textual apparatus, but of course can also contain bias. There are specifically Jewish translations, like JPS, with which you compare to check for Christian bias. Finally, there are volumes of volumes of textual criticism, analyzing each word, comparing available manuscripts, etc. Ultimately, though, for 98% of the text you will get the same meaning in all translations.

770 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:07:45am

re: #766 RayFerd

You think the insurance for the female employee would cover a prostate exam? Or the one for the male employee has coverage for prenatal care? Just because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it. As far as I know our insurance here at work is a one size fits all as far as male/female go, same package.

I have the answer:

No Contraceptives = No Viagra

771 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:09:51am

re: #768 ggt

Is there one he would recommend?

The Zionist Mall has a selection of different translations.

772 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:12:50am

re: #752 HappyWarrior

Gotcha so he had weak opponents. I wasn't shocked that Bob Casey beat him by a large margin in 2006. His father was a popular governor and Bob's the kind of Democrat that does well in Pennsylvania especially Western. Speaking of Western Pa, seems the Steelers new OC is a cousin of a family friend.

Part of it is level of opposition. I'd also say that part of it is *when* he has run.
1990 (House) - Mid-term Bush I - but against a fossil. Heavily pushed change and new face in an area that had issues (eastern suburban Pittsburgh*)
1992 (House) - Clinton (1st term) - Gerrymandered district, but fairly popular and opposed by a non-entity under the assumption that any Democratic candidate could unseat him.
1994 (Senate) - Mid-term Clinton (1st term) - GOP "take over" of Congress. He won 49%-47% and the "incumbant" was an appointee who replaced Heinz and had only been there a few years.
2000 (Senate) - Bush II (1st term) See below **

* - Outside of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia themselves Pennsylvania trends conservative. The east suburbs I lived in were tracts of 40-year-old homes (many with their original owners), heavily religious (Italian and Irish Catholics), lower middle class neighborhoods. Entrenched and corrupt local machine politics. And full of bigots of all shapes and colors.

** - Wikipedia on the 2000 campaign
Santorum had gained a reputation as a polarizing figure during his first term in the Senate, but he entered the race with a large fundraising advantage and high levels of support from the political right. The contest began for Democrats with a brutal primary challenge; U.S. Congressman Klink narrowly bested State Senator Allyson Schwartz and former Lieutenant Governor nominee Tom Foley by running on the message that he was the only candidate capable to defeating the Republican. Klink was viewed as a viable choice because he was a traditional Democrat on most issues and had strong union ties but also was pro-life, which Democrats hoped would return votes to their party in the heavily Catholic but economically liberal coal regions of the state. However, enthusiasm around Klink's campaign quickly waned, as he was unable to appeal to either liberal or moderate Democrats. Santorum, in contrast, successfully balanced his national recognition on social issues with local concerns in route to a surprisingly large victory.[1]

773 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:14:25am

re: #771 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The Zionist Mall has a selection of different translations.

You and your new Grandbaby are awesome!

774 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:15:26am

I have no idea what to make of this:

Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News

Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.

The group, the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, has long been designated as a terrorist group by the United States, accused of killing American servicemen and contractors in the 1970s and supporting the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran before breaking with the Iranian mullahs in 1980.

The attacks, which have killed five Iranian nuclear scientists since 2007 and may have destroyed a missile research and development site, have been carried out in dramatic fashion, with motorcycle-borne assailants often attaching small magnetic bombs to the exterior of the victims’ cars.

U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Obama administration is aware of the assassination campaign but has no direct involvement.

The Iranians have no doubt who is responsible – Israel and the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, known by various acronyms, including MEK, MKO and PMI.

775 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:17:10am

re: #774 Lidane

I have no idea what to make of this:

Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News

...U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity...

I'll wait.

776 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:17:54am

Particular example of Christian bias: translation of Isaiah 7:14, where Hebrew "almah" is rendered as a "virgin" in many classic Christian translations, because in the New Testament this verse is interpreted as saying "virgin". But you can check the JPS (for example) as see "young woman" instead.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

777 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:18:52am

re: #775 Gus

...U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity...

I'll wait.

Hey, I saw that at infowars!

778 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:19:00am

re: #775 Gus

...U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity...

I'll wait.

Yeah, that's probably smart. I'm mostly just scratching my head.

779 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:19:14am

re: #777 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Hey, I saw that at infowars!

You read infowars?

780 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:21:03am

re: #779 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

You read infowars?

I forgot the //

781 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:21:07am

An official told me but I promised to keep his name confidential. You'll just have to take my word for it!

Something like that is thrusting yourself into a level of self-importance. In this case, MSNBC is putting itself in the position of being a part of this story.

782 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:21:16am

re: #774 Lidane

I have no idea what to make of this:

Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News

If it is true why are gov's officials telling the MSM?

783 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:21:54am

re: #753 wrenchwench

{{{reine.de.tout}}}

(for the old kitty...)

*sniff*
Thanks. Logic tells me it's time.
Emotions, however, don't fit in with logic.

784 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:22:21am

re: #782 NJDhockeyfan

If it is true why are gov's officials telling the MSM?

Because Wikileaks is no longer "in"?

785 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:22:44am

re: #782 NJDhockeyfan

If it is true why are gov's officials telling the MSM?

That's what I'm wondering. And why the story confuses me.

786 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:23:14am

While I realize I'm kind of late to the whole conversation, I just wanted to point out that all these groups complaining about having to cover contraceptives in their health plans have had to do so since 2000. The only change this regulation makes is that the coverage needs to make it available with no copay.

Not even religious employers were exempt from the impact of the EEOC decision. Although Title VII allows religious institutions to discriminate on religious grounds, it doesn't allow them to discriminate on the basis of sex—the kind of discrimination at issue in the EEOC ruling. DePaul University, the largest Roman Catholic university in America, added birth control coverage to its plans after receiving an EEOC complaint several years ago. (DePaul officials did not respond to a request for comment.)

787 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:24:08am

re: #784 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Because Wikileaks is no longer "in"?

Speaking of that:

Army Private Manning nominated for Nobel Peace Prize for role in leaking documents

Oklahoma-born Army Private Bradley Manning, the soldier who's believed to have given restricted and secret documents to the website WikiLeaks, has been nominated for a 2012 Nobel Peace Prize.

Three members of the Icelandic Parliament for The Movement (Birgitta Jónsdóttir, Margrét Tryggvadóttir and Þór Saari) submitted the nomination earlier this month.

The nomination cites, amongst other things:

The leaked documents pointed to a long history of corruption, war crimes, and imperialism by the United States government in international dealings.

These revelations have fueled democratic uprising around the world, including a democratic revolution in Tunisia.

Contributed to the Obama Administration agreeing to withdraw all U.S.troops from the occupation in Iraq.

The documents made public by WikiLeaks should never have been kept from public scrutiny.

788 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:26:00am

re: #787 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of that:

Army Private Manning nominated for Nobel Peace Prize for role in leaking documents

Eh. Anyone can be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Winning is another matter.

789 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:27:03am

Your Cuteness of the Day

790 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:27:57am

re: #781 Gus

Or it's like everyone knows that Israel is operating against Iran (though the precise means may or may not be known). Some unnamed official thinks that it's by and through terror groups opposed to Iran's current regime so they make that opinion known to the media, that dutifully reports it.

Now how do we use that report?

We can see it as part of a confirmation bias (hey, we knew Israel was operating against Iran, and that it isn't a stretch to conclude that they're funding terror groups to attack Iranian interests on their behalf).

We can see it as a soft entreaty against Israel operating as a lone wolf (hey, we know what you're doing, now cut it out *wink/nod*).

I'm sure there are other possibilities and combinations, but the fact is that someone is going after Iran's nuclear scientists and nuclear program using all kinds of spycraft and technical capabilities. Would Israel really get itself involved with terror groups opposed to the regime (those are quite likely to backfire and/or cause bigger problems for Israel down the road)? Possible, but not likely - though Israel may think that the benefits of disrupting the nuclear program outweigh all else.

Then again, it could be a diversion method - blame Israel while the US or others (Saudis) are going around and whacking Iran's nuclear scientists and disrupting the nuclear program.

791 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:28:26am

re: #783 reine.de.tout

I dread that day with our two little guys.

792 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:28:35am

re: #787 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of that:

Army Private Manning nominated for Nobel Peace Prize for role in leaking documents

Anybody can nominate anybody else for a "Nobel Peace Prize." Rush Limbaugh was nominated for a "Nobel Peace Prize." Yasser Arafat actually received one. President Obama received one without even accomplishing anything except for getting elected.

793 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:28:40am

re: #783 reine.de.tout

*sniff*
Thanks. Logic tells me it's time.
Emotions, however, don't fit in with logic.

It's never time, emotionally.

You're doing the right thing, even if it doesn't feel OK.

{{Reine}}

794 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:28:51am

Can't stay long but dig this.
I've been talking with one of my best friends from high skool. Haven't seen her in 18 years. She saw one of my FB rants about trying to find work. Talked to her on the phone about an hour ago. She said she may have a job for me in New Orleans making $17.80/hr. Well then we talked about her sister, who I worked with (and her sister's hubby) 25 years ago. Her sis was a GM of a very large restaurant chain years ago. Then she brought up the fact that I've been in the industry, so I told her about my career.
Well, her sister is now a regional manager (this means many states) of an even bigger chain and she specializes in new store openings. I have 3 new store openings of major chains in my career. My friend called her sister and her sister said to forward her my resume and if I didn't mind relocating and traveling, this would work in my favor. Her sister is currently in Dallas.
This might be a good thing. Unless I just jinxed it.

795 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:28:54am

Possibly some "undisclosed source" told Ronen Bergman who told NBC so NBC is taking this as a third hand source. Ronen Bergman of course is trying to sell books.

He looks like quite the showman. Unless you have hard facts it's basically hearsay.

796 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:30:42am

re: #794 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can't stay long but dig this.
I've been talking with one of my best friends from high skool. Haven't seen her in 18 years. She saw one of my FB rants about trying to find work. Talked to her on the phone about an hour ago. She said she may have a job for me in New Orleans making $17.80/hr. Well then we talked about her sister, who I worked with (and her sister's hubby) 25 years ago. Her sis was a GM of a very large restaurant chain years ago. Then she brought up the fact that I've been in the industry, so I told her about my career.
Well, her sister is now a regional manager (this means many states) of an even bigger chain and she specializes in new store openings. I have 3 new store openings of major chains in my career. My friend called her sister and her sister said to forward her my resume and if I didn't mind relocating and traveling, this would work in my favor. Her sister is currently in Dallas.
This might be a good thing. Unless I just jinxed it.

Hope it works out for you!

797 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:31:21am

re: #794 Cannadian Club Akbar

Best of luck, and the way to unjinx yourself is to stub your toe really hard. That'll do it.

Or send me $100. That works too.

798 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:31:22am

re: #791 Obdicut

I dread that day with our two little guys.

OK. I'm now confused. These comments seem to be linking back to #742.

And that's Reine making a remark about Kragr's altar boy quip in #16.

799 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:31:52am

They should have a Nobel Prize for Cuteness.

800 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:32:00am

re: #787 NJDhockeyfan

Look, if there's a college poly-sci or history professor reading this blog, they could go ahead and submit Charles, you, me, or anyone else they deem worthy of a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize. Heck, they could nominate LGF for the prize for raising awareness of media mendacity/bias and encouraging reasonable dialogue among varying political viewpoints.

Fact is that anyone can be nominated - the process is so open that anyone can be nominated. The nomination itself is meaningless. The award of the prize is only slightly less meaningless.

801 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:32:42am

re: #798 Dept of the Current Danger

OK. I'm now confused. These comments seem to be linking back to #742.

And that's Reine making a remark about Kragr's altar boy quip in #16.

There doesn't have to be a continuity in the comments. It was apparently the closest comment to reply to.

802 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:32:53am

re: #797 Obdicut

Best of luck, and the way to unjinx yourself is to stub your toe really hard. That'll do it.

Or send me $100. That works too.

If I had $100, I'd be at the bar. Wait, I do have $100. That's why I can't stay long.:)

803 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:33:27am

re: #789 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Your Cuteness of the Day

[Video]

Is it the 29th?

804 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:34:22am

I wish I could find a weird list of weird people nominated for the Nobel. Manning being nominated doesn't say much, Manning winning on the other hand. Speaking of Mannings, I think Eli Manning should be nominated for beating the Patriots :).

805 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:34:29am

If you're going to go in theater and engage in covert operations and assassinations why in the world would you target such low level Iranian nuclear scientists some of which border on technicians? Where are the big fish? It would make more sense if we saw people of higher stature being "taken out" rather then these relative nobodies. I sometimes suspect it is the Iranians themselves who are doing these assassinations for their own Machiavellian reasons.

806 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:35:25am

re: #801 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

There doesn't have to be a continuity in the comments. It was apparently the closest comment to reply to.

Possibly. But it also provides a potential strange context to Obdicut's
"I dread that day with our two little guys." comment.

807 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:35:30am

re: #800 lawhawk

Look, if there's a college poly-sci or history professor reading this blog, they could go ahead and submit Charles, you, me, or anyone else they deem worthy of a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize. Heck, they could nominate LGF for the prize for raising awareness of media mendacity/bias and encouraging reasonable dialogue among varying political viewpoints.

Fact is that anyone can be nominated - the process is so open that anyone can be nominated. The nomination itself is meaningless. The award of the prize is only slightly less meaningless.

Ever since they awarded one to Yasser Arafat I have considered the prize itself meaningless.

808 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:14am

re: #805 Gus

We don't know that the big fish weren't targeted. We just know what attempts were successful.
It could be anyone at that point, altho certainly Israel, US and the Arab countries would seem to be the most probable culprits, separately or together. The Iranian infighting is all too real too, of course.

809 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:27am

re: #789 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Your Cuteness of the Day

[Video]

He kept calling you! Bababababababa

810 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:28am

re: #803 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Is it the 29th?

That's #27.

811 Honorary Consul General  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:34am

Okie dokie. Gotta run. See y'all in a few days.:)

812 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:39am

re: #807 NJDhockeyfan

Ever since they awarded one to Yasser Arafat I have considered the prize meaningless.

Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize, but Gandhi never did.

813 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:52am

re: #806 Dept of the Current Danger

Possibly. But it also provides a potential strange context to Obdicut's
"I dread that day with our two little guys." comment.

I dunno, I think it's clear from the start they're talking about pets.

814 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:39:07am

re: #813 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

I dunno, I think it's clear from the start they're talking about pets.

Humans tend to outlive their pets, unless your pet is a tortoise or a parrot.

815 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:39:36am

re: #813 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

I dunno, I think it's clear from the start they're talking about pets.

Yes. Context implies that someone had to have an elderly Feline Overlord put down.

816 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:40:57am

re: #808 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

We don't know that the big fish weren't targeted. We just know what attempts were successful.
It could be anyone at that point, altho certainly Israel, US and the Arab countries would seem to be the most probable culprits, separately or together. The Iranian infighting is all too real too, of course.

Right now it's like trying to prove a negative. ;)

817 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:41:54am

re: #798 Dept of the Current Danger

OK. I'm now confused. These comments seem to be linking back to #742.

And that's Reine making a remark about Kragr's altar boy quip in #16.

Two things going on. 1) my reply to Kragar's remark. 2) People being sympathetic to me about my very old and not well cat, for whom we have a appointment in the morning to have her euthanized. I've been putting it off; but it's just time.

818 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:42:23am

re: #817 reine.de.tout

Two things going on. 1) my reply to Kragar's remark. 2) People being sympathetic to me about my very old and not well cat, for whom we have a appointment in the morning to have her euthanized. I've been putting it off; but it's just time.

(((reine)))

819 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:42:25am

Oh what fun!

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
Rep. King's #CPAC speech so far dedicated to fighting good fight for conservative-approved light bulbs, showers, toilets, and candy bars.

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 multiculturalism panel: minorities have more power and favor than whites, Christians

820 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:42:35am

re: #815 Dept of the Current Danger

Yes. Context implies that someone had to have an elderly Feline Overlord put down.

Yes. In the morning.

821 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:43:13am

The multikulti panel. Jeez, they should have invited Anders Breivik.

822 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:44:06am

re: #808 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

We don't know that the big fish weren't targeted. We just know what attempts were successful.
It could be anyone at that point, altho certainly Israel, US and the Arab countries would seem to be the most probable culprits, separately or together. The Iranian infighting is all too real too, of course.

However it doesn't seem that if such assassinations were caused by the infighting - e.g. attempts to oust Ahmadinejad by tying him to the assassinations (as an example) - that these efforts have had any success. If the Iranian figures were to accuse each other of being implicated, now that would be a cui bono situation. As such, the probability is on the external forces behind the attempts, IMHO.

823 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:44:27am

There he is! Peter Brimelow at CPAC 2012...

[Link: twitter.com...]

Disgusting.

824 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:45:23am

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 panel says diversity is a "plague" on society, says all-white panel is "my idea of diversity"

825 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:45:39am

Rep. Steve King Takes Shot At Gays In CPAC Speech

At CPAC, Rep. Steve King indulged in the stereotype that men are in danger of being molested by gay men with the following comment: "I guess I'm short and fat is what I am. So I'm safe in San Francisco."

Comedy gold!

///

826 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:47:15am

re: #823 Gus

There he is! Peter Brimelow at CPAC 2012...

[Link: twitter.com...]

Disgusting.

What's that guy under Peter Brimelow? (I assume Peter Brimelow is that alien piece of hair, right?)

/

828 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:48:10am

Well this sucks...

S&P Warns U.S. of Additional Credit Downgrade

Global credit rating agency Standard and Poors has warned that the United States may be downgraded AGAIN.

S&P's sovereign ratings' managing director John Chambers said Wednesday that the U.S. needs to have a credible medium-term fiscal plan.

Chambers said the U.S. has a one-in-three chance of being downgraded if it doesn't come up with a plan to reduce its "unsustainable" trillion dollar deficit.

However, S&P does not expect to see any decisive steps to tackle the problem until the U.S. Presidential elections are over.

The agency cut America's sovereign credit rating for the first time last August to AA+ from Triple-A with a negative outlook.

829 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:48:57am

re: #827 Lidane

At CPAC, Mitch McConnell Calls Conservatives ‘Simply More Fun Than Liberals’

What a laugh riot. Mr. Turtleman. The life of the party!

830 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:48:59am

re: #827 Lidane

At CPAC, Mitch McConnell Calls Conservatives ‘Simply More Fun Than Liberals’

They're clowns all right, just creepy ones.

831 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:49:12am

re: #827 Lidane

At CPAC, Mitch McConnell Calls Conservatives ‘Simply More Fun Than Liberals’

Heh Mitch McConnell and fun go together like "sane" and Rick Santorum.

832 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:49:23am

re: #820 reine.de.tout

Yes. In the morning.

My sincere condolences. It's losing family.

833 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:49:41am

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 panel: Western democracy is phony, run by "corrupt elites" who want "one world" government and are just like radical Islamists

834 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:49:50am

re: #828 NJDhockeyfan

Well this sucks...

S&P Warns U.S. of Additional Credit Downgrade

Remind me again why S&P isn't under federal investigation for their part in orchestrating the Great Recession?

835 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:50:04am

re: #831 HappyWarrior

Heh Mitch McConnell and fun go together like "sane" and Rick Santorum.

And Santorum himself is, of course, just a bubbling fountain of joy.

836 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:50:15am

re: #807 NJDhockeyfan

Ever since they awarded one to Yasser Arafat I have considered the prize itself meaningless.

It would be a right-wing frothfest: putting Obama in the same league as a "traitor to his country".

837 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:50:43am

What I love about CPAC is the conservatives there have to put down liberals to raise their low self esteem.
I hate liberals!
*crowd cheers*
We're better than liberals because we're conservatives
*crowd cheers*
This isn't a political action conference, it's a pep rally for Conservative High School and we're going to beat Liberal High at homecoming yes we are!

838 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:50:53am

re: #834 Targetpractice

Remind me again why S&P isn't under federal investigation for their part in orchestrating the Great Recession?

because someone in Power has a financial interest in their not being investigated.

IMHO

839 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:51:05am

re: #820 reine.de.tout

Yes. In the morning.

Oh, that sucks. I'm sorry. I had a feline overlord that I had to put down back in 2004 because she had cancer and she was suffering. It broke my heart.

Lucky for me I've now got two new felines to keep me in line.

840 iossarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:51:08am

re: #827 Lidane

At CPAC, Mitch McConnell Calls Conservatives ‘Simply More Fun Than Liberals’

"Shit, if this gon' be that kind of party, I'm gonna stick mah dick in the mashed potato!"

841 iossarian  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:51:29am

re: #837 HappyWarrior

What I love about CPAC is the conservatives there have to put down liberals to raise their low self esteem.
I hate liberals!
*crowd cheers*
We're better than liberals because we're conservatives
*crowd cheers*
This isn't a political action conference, it's a pep rally for Conservative High School and we're going to beat Liberal High at homecoming yes we are!

So true.

842 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:52:32am

re: #837 HappyWarrior

What I love about CPAC is the conservatives there have to put down liberals to raise their low self esteem.
I hate liberals!
*crowd cheers*
We're better than liberals because we're conservatives
*crowd cheers*
This isn't a political action conference, it's a pep rally for Conservative High School and we're going to beat Liberal High at homecoming yes we are!

It's basically a separatist gathering. You can even say a white separatist movement.

843 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:53:25am

Judge: SeaWorld's killer whales aren't 'slaves' — PETA lawsuit tossed

SAN DIEGO — An effort to free whales from SeaWorld by claiming they were enslaved made a splash in the news but flopped in court Wednesday.

A federal judge in San Diego dismissed an unprecedented lawsuit seeking to grant constitutional protection against slavery to a group of orcas that perform at SeaWorld parks, saying the 13th amendment applies only to humans.

U.S. District Judge Jeffrey Miller stopped the case from proceeding two days after he became the first judge in U.S. history to listen to arguments in court over the possibility of granting constitutional rights for members of an animal species.

"As 'slavery' and 'involuntary servitude' are uniquely human activities, as those terms have been historically and contemporaneously applied, there is simply no basis to construe the Thirteenth Amendment as applying to non-humans," Miller wrote in his ruling.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals filed the lawsuit in October and named five whales as plaintiffs. PETA says the wild-captured orcas are enslaved by SeaWorld because they are held in concrete tanks against their will and forced to perform in shows at its parks in San Diego and Orlando.

I wonder how much money they put in to this stupid lawsuit?

844 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:53:43am

re: #837 HappyWarrior

What I love about CPAC is the conservatives there have to put down liberals to raise their low self esteem.
I hate liberals!
*crowd cheers*
We're better than liberals because we're conservatives
*crowd cheers*
This isn't a political action conference, it's a pep rally for Conservative High School and we're going to beat Liberal High at homecoming yes we are!

With the day after Election Day/"Homecoming" playing out much the same, with half the losing side blubbering and whining that they deserved to win, while the other half flies into a rage and accuses the winners of having cheated or worse.

845 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:53:52am

re: #842 Gus

It's basically a separatist gathering. You can even say a white separatist movement.

And if Obama was the tyrant they all say he is the drones would already be circling in for the kill.
///

846 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:54:14am

It's wingnut gold mine.

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 panel: elites "criminalized" opposition to multiculturalism, created "cult of non-white non-male,, non-heterosexual victimhood"

847 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:54:42am

...

848 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:54:49am

This is big.

849 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:54:57am

re: #844 Targetpractice

With the day after Election Day/"Homecoming" playing out much the same, with half the losing side blubbering and whining that they deserved to win, while the other half flies into a rage and accuses the winners of having cheated or worse.

Do you think it is possible they are going to steal the donkey?

850 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:55:57am

re: #849 Petero1818

Do you think it is possible they are going to steal the donkey?

I worry that they may shoot the donkey as "revenge."

851 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:10am

re: #843 NJDhockeyfan

Judge: SeaWorld's killer whales aren't 'slaves' — PETA lawsuit tossed

I wonder how much money they put in to this stupid lawsuit?

Any money is too much.

If PETA spent more of their time talking about food safety issues, factory farming, and personal health instead of stunts like this, they might be taken more seriously.

852 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:13am

re: #846 Gus

It's wingnut gold mine.

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 panel: elites "criminalized" opposition to multiculturalism, created "cult of non-white non-male,, non-heterosexual victimhood"

Wait for it.....wait for it.....the hoods are coming out at any moment.

853 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:18am

re: #840 iossarian

"Shit, if this gon' be that kind of party, I'm gonna stick mah dick in the mashed potato!"

to each his own idea of fun...or rather "pursuit of happiness"...

854 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:24am

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 panel: "facilitators of our destruction must be neutralized if we are to survive"

Anders Breivik anyone?

855 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:25am

re: #820 reine.de.tout

Yes. In the morning.

I'm so sorry. I would have such an issue if it was Winston.

856 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:37am

Wow.

857 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:56:43am

re: #848 Gus

This is big.

This is nothing we haven't seen from Rushes, Coulters and Savages of this world.

858 dell*nix  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:57:12am

re: #820 reine.de.tout

Sorry to hear that.

Our Crystal took a sudden turn for the worse on the evening of 16 Jan and passed early next morning. It would have been best for her and us if we had managed to take her to the vet for her to go painlessly and with us giving her a proper farewell.

859 sattv4u2  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:57:22am

re: #850 Targetpractice

I worry that they may shoot the donkey as "revenge."

or for dinner!!

(sign on a restaurant in the White Mountains in New Hampshire years ago)

'SPECIAL OF THE DAY
DONKEY STEW
EVERYONE GETS A PIECE OF ASS"

860 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:58:57am

STOCK Act passed by House by vote of 417-2

The House on Thursday joined the Senate in overwhelmingly approving a congressional insider-trading ban.

Now the question is whether the two chambers can make a deal — or whether they’ll find a way to stall over details and prevent a bill from reaching President Barack Obama’s desk.

Both measures passed overwhelmingly — 417-2 in the House and 96-3 in the Senate last week — but the bills differ in some respects.

861 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:59:47am

re: #860 NJDhockeyfan

STOCK Act passed by House by vote of 417-2

My understanding is that the House version is a watered-down one of the Senate version, but I'm hazy on the details.

862 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:00:03am

re: #849 Petero1818

Do you think it is possible they are going to steal the donkey?

It's more easier than stealing an elephant.

863 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:00:09am

Un. Freaking. Believable.

864 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:01:21am

re: #846 Gus

It's wingnut gold mine.

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
#CPAC2012 panel: elites "criminalized" opposition to multiculturalism, created "cult of non-white non-male,, non-heterosexual victimhood"

I'm a white heterosexual and I am sick of these guys acting like we're persecuted. We're not and any straight man who feels threatened by gays is a bigger wuss than any gay person.

865 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:01:44am

re: #860 NJDhockeyfan

STOCK Act passed by House by vote of 417-2

In other news, INTRADE is confirming a strange pay out on the question of whether the House would pass the STOCK act. Apparently there were 417 wagers placed hours before the vote.

866 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:03:49am

re: #851 Lidane

Any money is too much.

If PETA spent more of their time talking about food safety issues, factory farming, and personal health instead of stunts like this, they might be taken more seriously.

PETA doesn't give a shit about food safety, healthy eating habits or cruelty to animals. They are attention queens who want photo ops. Why else do you think ONLY HOT CHICKS need show up at their naked stunts. You never see guys or fat girls because nobody wants to see them naked.

867 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:04:53am

Whoa!

@RightWingWatch Right Wing Watch
Serious ignorance of history at #CPAC2012 multiculturalism panel: speaker says ethnic divisions began in 1960s, whites have least advantages

It's a freaking Klan meeting.

868 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:05:39am

All CPAC really is when it comes down to it is one big right wing circle jerk about how conservatives are the real victims in society. Not gay people who are bullied for their sexuality, Muslims who are told they can't be loyal Americans, blacks who are assumed to want to live off the government tit, or immigrants who are treated like parasites but white conservatives because it's soooooooooo hard being a white conservative these days. Seriously, and they accuse the left of having victim-hood problems. Physicians heal thyselves.

869 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:06:35am

CPAKKK

870 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:06:39am
871 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:06:59am

re: #869 Gus

CPAKKK

Knights Templar.

872 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:07:43am

re: #866 Look At My New Grandbaby!

PETA doesn't give a shit about food safety, healthy eating habits or cruelty to animals. They are attention queens who want photo ops. Why else do you think ONLY HOT CHICKS need show up at their naked stunts. You never see guys or fat girls because nobody wants to see them naked.

Penthouse PETAs?

873 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:08:09am

re: #798 Dept of the Current Danger

OK. I'm now confused. These comments seem to be linking back to #742.

And that's Reine making a remark about Kragr's altar boy quip in #16.

If you hover your mouse over the comment number, you'll see the real number.

874 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:08:47am

re: #873 Decatur Deb

If you hover your mouse over the comment number, you'll see the real number.

Which is the number of the beastie?

875 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:10:35am

re: #872 ralphieboy

Penthouse PETAs?

I am sure PETA is making porno on the side.

876 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:13:14am

re: #875 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I am sure PETA is making porno on the side.

Are Butterball Turkeys involved?

877 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:19:27am

re: #875 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I am sure PETA is making porno on the side.

They have!

PETA’s XXX Site Goes Live

I just visited my first .xxx site – and, of all things, it was for PETA.

Now before you get all excited (or enraged, depending on how you view the move by the animal rights org), you should know that there’s only a splash page and a sign up form for when the doors are finally opened. The site reads:

“We’re not quite ready to reveal PETA.xxx yet, but we promise that when we do, there will definitely be a real happy ending.”

See what they did there?

Glancing at the site’s keywords, PETA is using “PETA, XXX, naked, sexy, rather go naked, fetish, and porn” for the search engines. So yes, its happening.

“The site’s pretty much a secret at the moment as to exactly what it will be,” PETA President Ingrid Newkirk said back in January. “But it will be titillating, and it will be shocking, but perhaps not in the way that people think.”

878 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:22:05am

re: #710 ralphieboy

Remember, Rick Santorum tells us that it was the sexually permissive atmosphere of the 60's that led all those priests to abuse their flock...

"This is great stuff. I could make a career out of this guy! You see how clever his part is? How it doesn't require a shred of proof? Most paranoid delusions are intricate, but this is brilliant!" -- Dr. Silberman, "The Terminator"

879 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:25:51am

have a great day all!


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