Rep. Steve King Defends White Nationalist at CPAC

Overt racism becomes mainstream this year at CPAC
Politics • Views: 30,991

Appearing today at the CPAC panel discussion that featured white nationalist icon Peter Brimelow: Iowa Republican Rep. Steve King.

Rep. King has read all of Brimelow’s books, but claims he hasn’t seen any evidence of racism or white separatism.

Washington, D.C. — Iowa congressman Steve King is unconcerned about the implications of his appearance during a CPAC panel on “The Failure of Multiculturalism” featuring a white nationalist author, Peter Brimelow.

“I don’t know anything about that,” King, who came to the event to talk about his English Language Unity Act, told BuzzFeed — though he’d earlier told Brimelow that “I’ve read all your books!”. …

King added that he wasn’t totally familiar with Brimelow’s work.

“I’ve taken so much criticism on my life that has just been completely unjustified, you know, a fabrication of the hardcore left,” King said. “I’d want to see whatever evidence that is before I comment on it.”

When told that the white nationalist designation had come from the Southern Poverty Law Center, King laughed. “I wouldn’t take them seriously,” he said. “No, not at all.”

Again, I admit I was a little amazed that a true racist hater like Brimelow was appearing openly on a CPAC panel; but now, when both the organizers and a US Congressman are legitimizing Brimelow’s sick ideology, this crosses the line into downright creepy.

Related
CPAC Panel Will Feature White Nationalist Leader Brimelow
Also see
Steve King and White Nationalist CPAC Panel Warn That America’s Greatest Threat Is Its Diversity

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650 comments
1 erik_t  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:32:12pm

I remember always being leery of shit politicians said, but I don't remember when I started expecting them to flat-out lie about obviously falsifiable things, and when I started expecting the media to not call them out on it.

2 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:32:46pm

Steve King (Slimy Shit - Iowa)

3 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:33:29pm

Yeah no evidence at all Steve, none. And Brimelow's a hypocritical little shit himself. Whining about immigrants when he himself is one. I guess it's "different" because Petey's a white Briton.

4 Mickey Blumental  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:35:22pm

The current right wing approach works for everything for them:

Ignore evidence > claim there is no evidence > ????? > profit

5 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:36:13pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Whining about immigrants when he himself is one. I guess it's "different" because Petey's a white Briton.

Ever notice how debates on immigration center on brown people who speak languages that aren't English?

There's your answer why.

6 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:37:54pm

re: #5 Lidane

Oh, Brimelow's site also posts anti-Jewish rants, so it's not just brown people. He's a real white supremacist.

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

7 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:40:09pm

It's kind of ironic that as the Catholic Church picks an enormous fight with the Democrats over birth control, the VDARE guy, who is wildly anti-catholic, is being feted at CPAC. Where's the Bishop's statements on that?

8 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:40:16pm

re: #6 Obdicut

Oh, Brimelow's site also posts anti-Jewish rants, so it's not just brown people. He's a real white supremacist.

I've never seen any evidence of that, and I've read all his books!

/Steve King

9 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:40:24pm

have they issued a handy guide as to who is "white" enough and who isn't so that i can check my status?

10 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:40:24pm

And the Egyptian I was talking to after class today said I was being harsh by saying the Republicans were in between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafi politically today.

I stand by that comparison. Politics in the US are no longer Liberal vs. Conservative. They are Reactionary Religionist vs. the Enlightment.

We are a Middle Eastern Nation in all but Geography.

11 erik_t  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:44:07pm

Steve King (British Iowan National Party)

12 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:45:12pm

wall st journal today

Suddenly, Romney Country Seems Like No Sure Thing

seems to me like pretty soon the GOP will have a full blown panic fit and replace mitt with Somebody Else who isn't running now

13 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:46:39pm

re: #12 engineer cat

wall st journal today

Suddenly, Romney Country Seems Like No Sure Thing

seems to me like pretty soon the GOP will have a full blown panic fit and replace mitt with Somebody Else who isn't running now

HuffPo (yes, I know) has a similar article:

Mitt Romney's Struggles Take Republican Angst To New Heights

The angst within the Republican Party about Mitt Romney's candidacy has risen to such levels that some of the most experienced, influential members of the party are still talking about a late entry into the GOP primary.

"Now normally that's a joke," said a longtime party leader who spoke to The Huffington Post about the possibility of a late candidacy on the condition that he not be identified. "I mean normally that just can't go anywhere. But could it go somewhere now, if [Rick] Santorum continues to be unable to raise money from anybody but Foster Friess, if Newt [Gingrich] won't give Santorum a passing lane, if Romney continues to under-perform? If Ron Paul's 10, 12 or 20 percent just stays static as I expect it to?"

"Now, is that likely to happen? Hell no, it ain't likely to happen. But it's the first time in my life time where there's a real chance," the Republican said.

14 Olsonist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:47:32pm

I just don't see how the Republican Party recovers from this.

As soon as this CPAC stuff gets out and is covered by the national news organizations it's just over for the Republican Party as an institution because I'm sure the press will cover it with the same degree of attentiveness that they devoted to the Birther scandal.

Lights out.

15 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:48:47pm

In a reasoned, well thought out reaction to his daughter's inappropriate Facebook post, Dad makes Youtube video where he shoots her laptop with a .45 caliber pistol. Skip to 7 minutes for the display of quality parenting.

Youtube Video

P.S. Shooting down at objects flat on the ground is a firearms safety no no. Bullets can ricochet off of shallow buried rocks.

16 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:50:56pm

re: #14 Olsonist

Your making the assumption the national media WILL cover this. The media in the US doesn't want to threaten their access to the various people.

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:52:12pm

Double Fine Adventure is over a million dollars on kickstarter, rad

18 erik_t  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:52:59pm

re: #16 ProGunLiberal

Your making the assumption the national media WILL cover this. The media in the US doesn't want to threaten their access to the various people.

I don't expect much more from the GOP. Like an idiot, I still expect ever so much more from the media.

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:55:03pm
I’d want to see whatever evidence that is before I comment on it.

Then get your fucking lazy ass off your fucking chair and learn to use fucking Google at last, you fucking wingnut.

20 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:55:30pm

re: #16 ProGunLiberal

Your making the assumption the national media WILL cover this. The media in the US doesn't want to threaten their access to the various people.

Jon Stuart and Stephen Colbert are on hiatus. Coincidence? You decide.

21 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:58:41pm

Dogs Against Romney activist pulled over for having dog crate on roof of car.

[Link: www.dogsagainstromney.com...]

22 zora  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 3:59:27pm

the gop has turned into the new council of conservative citizens.

23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:03:49pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

In a reasoned, well thought out reaction to his daughter's inappropriate Facebook post, Dad makes Youtube video where he shoots her laptop with a .45 caliber pistol. Skip to 7 minutes for the display of quality parenting.

[Video]P.S. Shooting down at objects flat on the ground is a firearms safety no no. Bullets can ricochet off of shallow buried rocks.

He is...mad. I can hear him stuttering from anger and emotion.

I have made my child delete a post about her parents being mean. I explained that we don't air that kind of stuff in public.

If she's really mad, she can call my mother, who would be delighted to hear if my teenagers are giving me trouble.

24 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:07:35pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

In a reasoned, well thought out reaction to his daughter's inappropriate Facebook post, Dad makes Youtube video where he shoots her laptop with a .45 caliber pistol. Skip to 7 minutes for the display of quality parenting.

[Video]P.S. Shooting down at objects flat on the ground is a firearms safety no no. Bullets can ricochet off of shallow buried rocks.

Daddy'd better hope his company's HR department doesn't find out about that...companies don't like being associated with employees who resolve family disputes with firearms.

25 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:09:19pm

re: #24 darthstar

Daddy'd better hope his company's HR department doesn't find out about that...companies don't like being associated with employees who resolve family disputes with firearms.

My response would have been to thank her for giving her brother a new laptop.

26 darthstar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:15:53pm

re: #25 Ooh, look, shiny...

My response would have been to thank her for giving her brother a new laptop.

There are a lot of better ways to handle that situation. He chose none of them.

27 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:18:44pm

The media seems to be silent. They have been for some times now short of a few specialized programs on MSNBC.

28 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:19:45pm

re: #26 darthstar

There are a lot of better ways to handle that situation. He chose none of them.

You bet. What reaction if she told him something inappropriate to his face?

29 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:20:07pm

Lol, Perkins on Hardball.

30 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:23:52pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

Lol, Perkins on Hardball.

Doesn't he have a bund to manage?

31 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:25:26pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

In a reasoned, well thought out reaction to his daughter's inappropriate Facebook post, Dad makes Youtube video where he shoots her laptop with a .45 caliber pistol. Skip to 7 minutes for the display of quality parenting.

[Video]P.S. Shooting down at objects flat on the ground is a firearms safety no no. Bullets can ricochet off of shallow buried rocks.

Douchebag.

32 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:28:03pm

I think King's problem is that terrible people never realize they are terrible people. He read Brimelow's work, didn't think there was anything wrong with it, and it never occurred to him that other people might find it problematic.

33 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:29:23pm

Really? So we have:

When told that the white nationalist designation had come from the Southern Poverty Law Center, King laughed. “I wouldn’t take them seriously,” he said. “No, not at all.”

Then what about this Mr. King?

Peter Brimelow, the Editor of VDare, a Web site that features the work of racists, anti-Semites, and anti-immigrant figures. In January 2009, Brimelow spoke on a panel to promote a report released by The American Cause, a group founded by anti-Semite and racist Pat Buchanan. VDare promotes and archives pieces authored by anti-Semitic professor Kevin MacDonald, Georgia-based xenophobic leader D.A. King, white supremacist Jared Taylor and others. At the PWC conference, Brimelow will speak about the "Problems Caused by Immigration."

That would be from the Anti Defamation League. Unless of course you don't take them seriously either.

34 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:31:00pm

re: #33 Gus

Really? So we have:

Then what about this Mr. King?

That would be from the Anti Defamation League. Unless of course you don't take them seriously either.

I read it as him saying he doesn't take the ADL seriously.

35 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:31:02pm

re: #27 Gus

The media seems to be silent. They have been for some times now short of a few specialized programs on MSNBC.

No, they want to talk about birth control and the President being anti-Catholic instead because it's the president and not the Catholic Chursh that are out of the mainstream on the issue.

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:31:16pm

re: #31 Kragar

Douchebag.

There has to be a better way to help the child understand reality. I did admit a bit of sympathy for her when he let slip that her parents are divorced.

That's such a catch. You have a child who's going to have issues from the divorce, and then you put them in a family situation that requires MORE maturity from the child than usual, and then wonder why it fails.

37 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:32:11pm

How is Brimelow pronounced? Brajm-low or Breemeh-low?

38 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:32:12pm

re: #32 Conservative Moonbat

I think King's problem is that terrible people never realize they are terrible people. He read Brimelow's work, didn't think there was anything wrong with it, and it never occurred to him that other people might find it problematic.

Right they don't see him as racist because he thinks and feels what they feel and of course they aren't racists. It's those liberals that are the real racists.

39 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:33:24pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

Lol, Perkins on Hardball.

That guy has a face made for punching. Isn't he the one who bought David Dukes mailing list?

40 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:33:45pm

He laughs it off. And Slate's Dave Weigel laughs it off:

41 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:34:35pm

re: #37 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

How is Brimelow pronounced? Brajm-low or Breemeh-low?

Throatwarbler Mangrove.

42 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:37:19pm

It won't be long before they'll be laughing at a Marine unit flying the flag of the Schutzstaffel. Everything is a joke to them. I guess this is the kind of "humor" that Mitch McConnell alluded to this morning.

43 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:37:42pm

re: #33 Gus

Really? So we have:

Then what about this Mr. King?

That would be from the Anti Defamation League. Unless of course you don't take them seriously either.

Eh, um.

[Link: adl.org...]

44 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:39:07pm

re: #43 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Eh, um.

[Link: adl.org...]

...

Damn liberal-Jews!

45 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:44:04pm

Night Lizards. I.F rule in effect.

May The Deity of Your Choice Smile Down Upon You.

46 Swampwitch  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:47:51pm

As someone who lives in King's district, believe me when I say one should never be surprised at the excrement that comes out of his mouth.
Funny, no one I know has ever voted for him. No one around here votes when he's up for reelection. Iowa Public Radio, the goddamned Clear Channel monopoly, the MSM, and the big liberal blogs completely ignore his opponents, so people think he's running unopposed. And since he refuses to debate his opponents (last time because the other guy hadn't "earned" the right to debate him, and this time because she's a woman and he's rather debate her husband), there goes TV.
Steve King is a vile, racist, sexist, gay-hating, xenophobic moron...and because of him and cretins like Vander Plaats, my otherwise lovely part of Iowa is vilified.

47 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:49:34pm

re: #46 Swampwitch

Welcome, hatchling.

48 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:49:39pm

re: #44 Gus

Damn liberal-Jews!

Occupy Oakland votes 135-1 to support BDS

In a nearly unanimous vote at a general assembly meeting Feb. 1 at Oscar Grant Plaza, Occupy Oakland protesters voted to endorse a proposal in support of the BDS movement (boycotts, divestment and sanctions) against Israel.
...
“Israel is an apartheid state that has policies that treat Palestinians as second-, third- and fourth-class citizens on their own land,” Khouri said in her pre-vote comments. “We’re seeing a militarization of our police forces by local government, and they’re using the same weapons and polices against [occupiers] here as they are there.”
...
A lengthy statement on the Occupy Oakland website attacked U.S. aid to Israel and suggested that Israel had “prodded” the United States into the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

49 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:51:04pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Occupy Oakland votes 135-1 to support BDS

Si.

50 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:52:40pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Occupy Oakland votes 135-1 to support BDS

Oops, sorry. I forgot the ADL link: Fight The Boycott

51 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:53:27pm

Speaking of morons. From the journalist peanut gallery:

Which was re-Tweeted by Dave Weigel. There's a reason why Weigel is still buddies with R.S. McCain.

52 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:58:02pm

re: #51 Gus

Byron York, mystified by politics.

53 palomino  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 4:58:06pm

re: #51 Gus

Speaking of morons. From the journalist peanut gallery:

Which was re-Tweeted by Dave Weigel. There's a reason why Weigel is still buddies with R.S. McCain.

York's tweet is inaccurate of course. Obama has clearly stated that he opposes taking rights away once they've been granted by individual states. In other words, in states that have SSM he thinks the law should stay as it is. He clearly has no problem with SSM, even if he hasn't given a full throated endorsement that it should apply nationally now. Which is why he opposed Prop. 8 in the first place.

54 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:00:05pm

re: #53 palomino

And he voted against the FMA. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So, he's voted against defining marriage as heterosexual on the federal level.

55 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:02:07pm

MJ Rosenberg's new Zionist conspiracy article: Iran War: What Is AIPAC Planning?

Netanyahu and his camp followers here do not really want a war now. They just want it understood that they can dictate whether there is one or not. And when. In other words, they want to show who is boss (it's not like we don't know).

As for Obama, he may just be playing along with Netanyahu and AIPAC because he understands their strategy. Perhaps he knows that it isn't war they want but the illusion of control.

Only, it's not an illusion.

56 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:03:21pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

MJ Rosenberg's new Zionist conspiracy article: Iran War: What Is AIPAC Planning?

Nice to see some pushback in the comments section.

57 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:08:05pm

re: #53 palomino

York's tweet is inaccurate of course. Obama has clearly stated that he opposes taking rights away once they've been granted by individual states. In other words, in states that have SSM he thinks the law should stay as it is. He clearly has no problem with SSM, even if he hasn't given a full throated endorsement that it should apply nationally now. Which is why he opposed Prop. 8 in the first place.

That's actually Jake Tapper of ABC News spreading that misinformation. I responded several times already to this stupidity:

58 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:08:26pm

re: #5 Lidane

Ever notice how debates on immigration center on brown people who speak languages that aren't English?

There's your answer why.

I have. I believe Brimelow's not the only one. I believe the National Review has John Derbyshire who was actually an illegal immigrant himself but he now uses his pen to bitch. Seriously, it is about race. I don't care what people say. Bachmann praising the past immigration quotas was a great illustration of that.

59 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:08:51pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

MJ Rosenberg's new Zionist conspiracy article: Iran War: What Is AIPAC Planning?

MJ wishes that he could have the kind of influence that he imagines AIPAC must have.

60 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:12:12pm

On the way home today while listening to NPR (which, bizarrely, seems to be trying to turn into Fox Lite with the way it's becoming All-GOP-Coverage-All-The-Time) I heard what was simultaneously one of the most laughable (I literally LOLd, which I generally don't do) and one of the most horrifying ideas I've ever heard.

They were talking about CPAC, naturally omitting all the stuff about white nationalist yahoos and so forth, and some bozo from a "conservative think tank" (talk about an oxymoron) was talking about Rick Perry and how he really needs to have a cabinet seat in the next Republican administration. The guy actually suggested that Rick Perry should be head of Homeland Security of all things. I can't even imagine what that dystopian nightmare would look like.

I'll be damned if I can find the correct link right now, but I haven't had a shock like that in quite some time.

61 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:13:06pm

re: #60 negativ

On the way home today while listening to NPR (which, bizarrely, seems to be trying to turn into Fox Lite with the way it's becoming All-GOP-Coverage-All-The-Time) I heard what was simultaneously one of the most laughable (I literally LOLd, which I generally don't do) and and of the most horrifying ideas I've ever heard.

They were talking about CPAC, naturally omitting all the stuff about white nationalist yahoos and so forth, and some bozo from a "conservative think tank" (talk about an oxymoron) was talking about Rick Perry and how he really needs to have a cabinet seat in the next Republican administration. The guy actually suggested that Rick Perry should be head of Homeland Security of all things. I can't even imagine what that dystopian nightmare would look like.

I'll be damned if I can find the correct link right now, but I haven't had a shock like that in quite some time.

Herman Cain thinks he should be Secretary of Defense. Of course, I think I should be Mr. Natalie Portman but alas.

62 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:13:46pm

re: #59 Look At My New Grandbaby!

MJ wishes that he could have the kind of influence that he imagines AIPAC must have.

He is a creepy dude. After we talked about his again yesterday I went back and read a bunch of his writings. He has some serious issues.

63 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:14:07pm

re: #54 Obdicut

And he voted against the FMA. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So, he's voted against defining marriage as heterosexual on the federal level.

So get this. Jake responds to me by saying "hey Gus, we never said he voted for FMA. read the post, friend."

64 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:15:44pm

"We didn't say he supported the Federal Marriage Amendment. All we're saying is that Obama doesn't support gay marriage!"

[hiccup]

Whatever I suppose. Tapper's always been on the fence and started off as being a friend of right side of the aisle.

65 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:17:17pm

Obama may not support gay marriage at a federal level but he has as Gus already wrote to York and Tapper, he has been more progressive on this issue than any other president. Besides the rhetoric here plays a role. Which party has candidates that constantly pander to anti gay bigotry? It's not the Democrats. And it wasn't a Democrat who is close to being his party's frontrunner who once compared homosexuality to bestiality.

66 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:19:18pm

re: #64 Gus

"We didn't say he supported the Federal Marriage Amendment. All we're saying is that Obama doesn't support gay marriage!"

[hiccup]

Whatever I suppose. Tapper's always been on the fence and started off as being a friend of right side of the aisle.

Reply with "He doesn't oppose it, either. Now what, bitches?!?!"

67 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:20:12pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Obama may not support gay marriage at a federal level but he has as Gus already wrote to York and Tapper, he has been more progressive on this issue than any other president. Besides the rhetoric here plays a role. Which party has candidates that constantly pander to anti gay bigotry? It's not the Democrats. And it wasn't a Democrat who is close to being his party's frontrunner who once compared homosexuality to bestiality.

Thanks. Yeah, they're playing games. It's almost like they're poking liberals on this. "Obama holding fund raiser at famous lesbian couple's house yet he doesn't support gay marriage!" Seriously?

68 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:20:30pm

re: #63 Gus

So get this. Jake responds to me by saying "hey Gus, we never said he voted for FMA. read the post, friend."

I'm probably reading too much into this, but is it possible Tapper was being ironic? Y'know, in a "he doesn't support same sex marriage, nudge nudge, wink wink" kind of way?

A later tweet after that reads "their Chicago nuptials were described in a local paper as the 'wedding of the season'" without any snark whatsoever, so it doesn't sound like Tapper has a great big right wing hard-on about the subject.

69 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:21:52pm

re: #64 Gus

Tapper believes that people should always tell him the exact truth.

Last year, Tapper blogged that he had once run into Obama and the candidate "reeked of cigarettes." The campaign denied that he had resumed smoking, but when Obama admitted on MSNBC that he "fell off the wagon a couple of times," Tapper wrote that the issue was "minuscule. . . . Except that I don't like feeling that I wasn't being dealt with honestly."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

70 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:22:19pm

re: #67 Gus

Thanks. Yeah, they're playing games. It's almost like they're poking liberals on this. "Obama holding fund raiser at famous lesbian couple's house yet he doesn't support gay marriage!" Seriously?

No prob. And yeah he opposed the FMA. Really, I get annoyed with right wingers trying to say Obama is no different from the Republicans on these issues. Especially after seeing the fight they put up when Obama and the Democrats tried to repeal DADT. And leading the fight was their 2008 nominee. I lost a lot of respect for McCain for how he acted in it. He was so obviously pandering to win his primary.

71 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:24:07pm

re: #67 Gus

Thanks. Yeah, they're playing games. It's almost like they're poking liberals on this. "Obama holding fund raiser at famous lesbian couple's house yet he doesn't support gay marriage!" Seriously?

Believing that not supporting gay marriage is equivalent to actively hating gays is the product of a bent mind. While that attitude may be typical in Wingnutia, it isn't in the world of reality.

72 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:24:16pm

I'm trying to figure out, still, the contraceptive issue. WTF? Bishops (what, are there 13 of them in the US????) that much power?

73 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:25:01pm

oops, fucked up my nic. again.

74 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:26:00pm

By the way I didn't know Brimelow was anti-Catholic not that I am surprised. I believe King is Catholic. Not like he actually cares since he cares more about being a right wing shill and making the president out to be the bigot.

75 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:26:03pm
76 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:26:21pm

re: #73 Closets racists are the worst

I read it as "Closest racists are the worst", which is true.

77 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:26:50pm

Racists in closet are closer than they appear.

78 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:27:23pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Occupy Oakland votes 135-1 to support BDS

In other words, OWS is composed primarily of leftists in the twenties and holds the political views typical of that demographic.

Film at 11.

79 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:27:45pm

re: #75 Lee Garner Jr.

Welcome hatchling.

(ww, did I beat cha?)

80 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:28:20pm

If the gop insists on courting the theocratic right wing, they will go the way of the dodo. This current generation of young adults just ain't having that shit.

Youtube Video

/and a good number of us from older generations are sick of it as well

81 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:28:53pm

re: #79 Sarah Palin USA

Welcome hatchling.

(ww, did I beat cha?)

I was going to greet that one, but I was not going to use the word 'welcome'. I'm not sure that's sarcasm.

82 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:29:03pm

re: #72 Closets racists are the worst

I'm trying to figure out, still, the contraceptive issue. WTF? Bishops (what, are there 13 of them in the US???) that much power?

Evaluating racists is a black and white thing, there is no grey, so calling one sub-species better than another is meaningless.

83 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:29:28pm

re: #78 Conservative Moonbat

In other words, OWS is composed primarily of leftists in the twenties and holds the political views typical of that demographic.

Film at 11.

Yeah, not at all surprising.

84 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:30:02pm

How something like the CPAC river of bullshit doesn't make it to the liberal media really kills me.

85 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:30:03pm

re: #72 Closets racists are the worst

I'm trying to figure out, still, the contraceptive issue. WTF? Bishops (what, are there 13 of them in the US???) that much power?

It's the usual GOP ploy of "Big Gov't is trying to control your life!," this time by focusing on religious voters with the contraceptive bit. Thing is, most of the people who actually would be affected by this new mandate support it, likely because they themselves use contraceptives the same as everybody else. So the only ones who give a shit about all this are the same people who were going to vote Republican anyway.

86 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:30:37pm

re: #82 Just Scroll on By

Evaluating racists is a black and white thing, there is no grey, so calling one sub-species better than another is meaningless.

I was just reading something a lot like that.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:31:33pm

re: #82 Just Scroll on By

Evaluating racists is a black and white thing, there is no grey, so calling one sub-species better than another is meaningless.

*ahem*
 :P

88 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:31:39pm

re: #85 Targetpractice

It's the usual GOP ploy of "Big Gov't is trying to control your life!," this time by focusing on religious voters with the contraceptive bit. Thing is, most of the people who actually would be affected by this new mandate support it, likely because they themselves use contraceptives the same as everybody else. So the only ones who give a shit about all this are the same people who were going to vote Republican anyway.

Aw, going after the 20%. Again.

89 austin_blue  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:31:43pm

re: #72 Sarah Palin USA

I'm trying to figure out, still, the contraceptive issue. WTF? Bishops (what, are there 13 of them in the US???) that much power?

Good OpEd by Gail Collins on the subject:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

90 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:32:29pm

Hmmm. O_o

91 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:33:20pm

I really think conservatism as we know it is doomed if they keep on doing this sad old crap. Conservatives right now seem too proud to adapt to new realities. The electorate is growing more socially liberal. Culture wars aren't going to work as well anymore.

93 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:34:45pm

re: #89 Racism is *so* mainstream Republican.

Gail Collins: "The problem here is that they’re trying to get the government to do their work for them. They’ve lost the war at home, and they’re now demanding help from the outside."

This.

94 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:35:51pm

re: #92 Lidane

*sigh*

Santorum: 'Concerns' about 'emotions involved' for women in frontline combat

Pissed off is an emotion.

95 Swampwitch  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:36:03pm

re: #47 wrenchwench
Thank you.
And it figures my first post has a typo.

96 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:36:05pm

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

*ahem*
 :P

You're not claiming racists are a species all on their own are you?

97 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:36:06pm

re: #75 Lee Garner Jr.

If CPAC gets any more radical and unAmerican they'll invite Van Jones!

OK, I see that you are one of those that registered and logged in and posted all within about a minute, which is the sign of someone who has been here before under another identity, so I'll go ahead and say what I was thinking.

What the hell do you mean by that, asshole?

98 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:37:17pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

OK, I see that you are one of those that registered and logged in and posted all within about a minute, which is the sign of someone who has been here before under another identity, so I'll go ahead and say what I was thinking.

What the hell do you mean by that, asshole?

See #90.

99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:37:34pm

re: #96 Just Scroll on By

I was trying for comical irony. FAIL, I did.

100 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:37:55pm

Can we start taxing these people already?

Catholic TV network sues US over birth control mandate

101 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:38:06pm

re: #95 Swampwitch

Thank you.
And it figures my first post has a typo.

Ministry of Silly Walks, eh?
You should fit in fine.

102 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:38:41pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

I really think conservatism as we know it is doomed if they keep on doing this sad old crap. Conservatives right now seem too proud to adapt to new realities. The electorate is growing more socially liberal. Culture wars aren't going to work as well anymore.

Well, conservatism "as we know it" is actually fairly recent. Even Dubbya was making gains among latino voters and even Muslims (for a while). Sure the smelly specter of racism has always been there. Pat Buchanan always stayed fairly well connected. But only recently did they start again with the Birch Society stuff, "libertarian" zealotry, etc. This will burn out over time and they'll return to some sort of pragmatism.

103 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:39:26pm

re: #89 Racism is *so* mainstream Republican.

Good OpEd by Gail Collins on the subject:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Way more RC bishops--167 signed the first letter, There are 465 active and sort-of retired. There are also bishop-equivalents in other Catholic rites recognizing the Pope, who seem to be in that number.

Oops--Actually an answer to #72.

104 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:40:00pm

re: #75 Lee Garner Jr.

If CPAC gets any more radical and unAmerican they'll invite Van Jones!

So basically what you're saying is that if CPAC gets any more "radical and un-American" they'll finally be as "radical and un-American" as the Obama White House in which Van Jones was the Green Jobs Czar. Correct?

105 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:40:23pm

re: #95 Swampwitch

Thank you.
And it figures my first post has a typo.

You have a few minutes to fix it by clicking on the pencil icon, but it's probably too late for that one.

106 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:41:01pm
107 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:41:28pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Well, conservatism "as we know it" is actually fairly recent. Even Dubbya was making gains among latino voters and even Muslims (for a while). Sure the smelly specter of racism has always been there. Pat Buchanan always stayed fairly well connected. But only recently did they start again with the Birch Society stuff, "libertarian" zealotry, etc. This will burn out over time and they'll return to some sort of pragmatism.

I guess. I just seeing the rigid social conservatism as a longterm losing strategy. And yeah Dubya was different from this crowd, I do agree since he did court Latinos and Muslims.

108 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:41:30pm

re: #106 Lee Garner Jr.

Whatever.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:42:22pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Ah, ever the optimist, you are.

110 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:42:30pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

I was trying for comical irony. FAIL, I did.

So was I.
So did I.

111 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:42:58pm

re: #95 Swampwitch

Thank you.
And it figures my first post has a typo.

Big thumbs up for the icon.

And if your screen name is a tip of the hat to the old Jim Stafford song, it might be love at first sight. :-)

112 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:43:05pm
113 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:43:51pm

Whoa! Like picking up a stray cat and suddenly the claws are out all over the place with the arms flaying in 1/32nd notes.

//

114 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:44:01pm

re: #110 Just Scroll on By

So was I.
So did I.

FAIL sandwich!!! Who wants to be the meat?

115 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:45:12pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

OK, I see that you are one of those that registered and logged in and posted all within about a minute, which is the sign of someone who has been here before under another identity, so I'll go ahead and say what I was thinking.

What the hell do you mean by that, asshole?

Youtube Video
116 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:45:18pm

re: #92 Lidane

*sigh*

Santorum: 'Concerns' about 'emotions involved' for women in frontline combat

Translation: Rick thinks women in combat would be a liability, because every male grunt around them would be trying to either screw them or trying to prevents others from doing so.

117 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:45:46pm

re: #100 Lidane

Can we start taxing these people already?

Catholic TV network sues US over birth control mandate

for real.

tax exempt? no one has brought this bullshit up.

118 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:46:13pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

The electorate is growing more socially liberal. Culture wars aren't going to work as well anymore.

I really hope you're right, because if this kind of flat-out theocratic bigotry and its weird fetish for extremely wealthy people is what really gets America's buttocks pumping up and down these days, we have FAR, FAR bigger problems than worrying about who the president is.

I have to say, though: I'm natural born pessimist so I'll assume you're delusional, which sadly means we're coo-coo for culture wars and thereby completely and historically fucked.

119 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:46:54pm

re: #75 Lee Garner Jr.

If CPAC gets any more radical and unAmerican they'll invite Van Jones! be getting "Thank You" cards from Al Queda.

120 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:47:51pm

re: #106 Lee Garner Jr.

re: #108 wrenchwench

Misunderstanding. Please.

Peace

121 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:48:10pm

re: #107 HappyWarrior

I guess. I just seeing the rigid social conservatism as a longterm losing strategy.

Even social conservatism has a place in the future. If you strip away a lot of the useless and unrelated issues and baggage I think you'll always find that social conservatism will continue to have appeal. With the example of Muslim and Latino voters issues like family, religion, tradition, etc were the reason why they started leaning towards Republicans for a while until they were chased away by xenophobic and racist rhetoric.
If you think about it I'd bet that most imigrant communities are more socially conservative.

122 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:48:59pm

re: #120 Sarah Palin USA

re: #108 wrenchwench

Misunderstanding. Please.

Peace

Do you know him?

123 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:49:06pm

re: #118 negativ

I really hope you're right, because if this kind of flat-out theocratic bigotry and its weird fetish for extremely wealthy people is what really gets America's buttocks pumping up and down these days, we have FAR, FAR bigger problems than worrying about who the president is.

I have to say, though: I'm natural born pessimist so I'll assume you're delusional, which sadly means we're coo-coo for culture wars and thereby completely and historically fucked.

I hope I am right too. I don't know. It seems to me that most younger people even if they are right leaning on economics tend to be more left leaning on social issues. But this is anecdotal and I am sure the boomers when they were my age thought that their generation would stay socially liberal but we of course know that wasn't to be. It is weird though. These cons talk about how they're big Christians and yet at the same time they sound like Ayn Rand when it comes to helping the less fortunate. I don't know how many times I've read about a huge conservative on social issues who says they were heavily influenced by Ayn Rand's on the economy.

124 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:49:12pm

re: #116 Targetpractice

Translation: Rick thinks women in combat would be a liability, because every male grunt around them would be trying to either screw them or trying to prevents others from doing so.

Santorum needs to go eat a bag of dicks.

125 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:49:18pm
126 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:50:33pm

O_o

127 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:51:06pm

[whistles]

128 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:51:38pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Even social conservatism has a place in the future. If you strip away a lot of the useless and unrelated issues and baggage I think you'll always find that social conservatism will continue to have appeal. With the example of Muslim and Latino voters issues like family, religion, tradition, etc were the reason why they started leaning towards Republicans for a while until they were chased away by xenophobic and racist rhetoric.
If you think about it I'd bet that most imigrant communities are more socially conservative.

Right social conservatism. I am talking about extreme anti gay rhetoric, anti abortion, etc that Santorum practices. Social conservatism isn't going away, I agree but they will need to tone it down I think in the future. As gay marriage becomes more commonplace in the country, "homosexual agenda" isn't going to work and yeah I agree the immigrant community is actually socially conservative due to many of them being religion. I think generation has to do with it too. For example, young Latinos and Asians I believe voted against Prop 8 at a higher rate than young whites.

129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:51:44pm

re: #125 Lee Garner Jr.

oh I missed the beheadings and the stoning of gays. when is that?

What you missed was subtext.

130 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:51:51pm

I'm pretty sure there's a script they follow.

131 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:52:54pm

re: #125 Lee Garner Jr.

You're correct that the people at CPAC are not as bad as the taliban. However, even though they're not stoning gays, they are calling them sick, sinful, and legislating against them, like conservative Muslims do.

It's an area-- among many areas-- where the fundamentalists Muslims and these fundamentalist Christians agree.

That's why this year GOProud was disinvited, but white supremacists were.

How do you feel about the white supremacists at CPAC?

132 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:54:14pm

re: #131 Obdicut

You're correct that the people at CPAC are not as bad as the taliban. However, even though they're not stoning gays, they are calling them sick, sinful, and legislating against them, like conservative Muslims do.

It's an area-- among many areas-- where the fundamentalists Muslims and these fundamentalist Christians agree.

That's why this year GOProud was disinvited, but white supremacists were.

How do you feel about the white supremacists at CPAC?

I'm guessing he'd rather talk about evil liberals.

133 austin_blue  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:54:33pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Even social conservatism has a place in the future. If you strip away a lot of the useless and unrelated issues and baggage I think you'll always find that social conservatism will continue to have appeal. With the example of Muslim and Latino voters issues like family, religion, tradition, etc were the reason why they started leaning towards Republicans for a while until they were chased away by xenophobic and racist rhetoric.
If you think about it I'd bet that most imigrant communities are more socially conservative.

Hell, Ike got half the black vote in '52 and '56.

Things change.

134 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:54:55pm

re: #100 Lidane

Can we start taxing these people already?

Catholic TV network sues US over birth control mandate

re: #100 Lidane

Marco Rubio: "This is about whether the government of the United States should have the power to go in and tell a faith-based organization they have to pay for something that they teach their members shouldn't be doing. It`s that simple."

Government and the citizens who will be protected by this measure are not responsible for a church's private failure to keep its parishioners in line.

135 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:55:13pm

re: #133 Racism is *so* mainstream Republican.

Hell, Ike got half the black vote in '52 and '56.

Things change.

Nixon got a third in 1960 and then the Southern Strategy happened. And you know the rest.

136 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:55:16pm

re: #124 Kragar

Santorum needs to go eat a bag of dicks.

Rick's just living by the "natural order," which is something religious men invoke when they want to excuse their misogynistic bullshit.

137 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:55:43pm

re: #125 Lee Garner Jr.

oh I missed the beheadings and the stoning of gays. when is that?

Santorum's inauguration day.

138 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:56:13pm

re: #137 Kragar

Santorum's inauguration day.

True story.

139 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:56:19pm

re: #122 wrenchwench

Do you know him?

No, I think I might be in fail. I mis-read the Van Jones comment. Maybe? I took it as extreme snark.

140 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:56:38pm

Later, lizards.

You too, Lee Garner Jr.

141 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:56:41pm

Must be a visiting sailor from the Gulf of America.

142 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:56:52pm

re: #131 Obdicut

You're correct that the people at CPAC are not as bad as the taliban. However, even though they're not stoning gays, they are calling them sick, sinful, and legislating against them, like conservative Muslims do.

It's an area-- among many areas-- where the fundamentalists Muslims and these fundamentalist Christians agree.

That's why this year GOProud was disinvited, but white supremacists were.

How do you feel about the white supremacists at CPAC?

They're not stoning the gays because they live in a society that is a product of the enlightenment. Give them a slightly different environment and stonings would happen.

143 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:57:04pm

re: #134 jaunte

re: #100 Lidane

Government and the citizens who will be protected by this measure are not responsible for a church's private failure to keep its parishioners in line.

We tax pacifists to pay for napalm. The bishops will just have to get over the fun-screw'n.

144 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:57:14pm
145 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:58:43pm

re: #144 Lee Garner Jr.

well I'm a Log Cabin rebublican if you get my drift.

and I think for myself thank you, and in terms of threats to me or my lifestyle: It ain't CPAC.

A rebublican? You like Nascar?

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:58:49pm

re: #4 Mickey Blumental

The current right wing approach works for everything for them:

Ignore evidence > claim there is no evidence > ??? > profit

It's the easiest tactic for not having to deal with reality.

"Peter Brimelow a racist? Why ever would you think that? I haven't seen ANY evidence of that."

"Gilad Atzmon an anti-Semite? I'd say you've been misinformed. I am very familiar with his work, and I don't see anything like that."

147 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:58:55pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

We tax pacifists to pay for napalm. The bishops will just have to get over the fun-screw'n.

I'm willing to meet the bishops halfway on this. They can have a big exemption in the law cut out for their hospitals and universities, in exchange, we yank all government grants, loans, and scholarships that go to both. They want federal dollars, but not federal rules.

148 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 5:59:29pm

re: #147 Targetpractice

Oppression!

149 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:00:04pm

re: #144 Lee Garner Jr.

well I'm a Log Cabin rebublican if you get my drift.

and I think for myself thank you, and in terms of threats to me or my lifestyle: It ain't CPAC.

You realize a lot of people at CPAC want to criminalize homosexuality, right?

And again:

That's why this year GOProud was disinvited, but white supremacists were.

How do you feel about the white supremacists at CPAC? And about gays specifically being disinvited?

150 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:00:28pm

re: #147 Targetpractice

How dare you threaten to withhold tax dollars that we are exempt from contributing too?!?!?

151 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:00:37pm

re: #148 jaunte

Oppression!

Go whine to God about it, maybe he'll get off his ass and do something about it.

//

152 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:00:45pm

re: #147 Targetpractice

I'm willing to meet the bishops halfway on this. They can have a big exemption in the law cut out for their hospitals and universities, in exchange, we yank all government grants, loans, and scholarships that go to both. They want federal dollars, but not federal rules.

For all the noise, I still haven't found a discussion of the HHS penalty. Somehow I don't think it involves lions in RFK Stadium.

153 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:01:17pm

re: #136 Targetpractice

Rick's just living by the "natural order," which is something religious men invoke when they want to excuse their misogynistic bullshit.

The 'natural' order is humans are a species of animal and related to all other animals. Santorum would not accept that part of nature but he wants everyone to live in 'his' part of nature.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:01:36pm
155 palomino  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:03:32pm

re: #84 Sarah Palin USA

How something like the CPAC river of bullshit doesn't make it to the liberal media really kills me.

True...one of the more scathing critiques of CPAC comes from right winger John Ziegler, who has come to the realization that his former heroes like Palin and Jerome Corsi are full-of-shit wingnuts.

In defense of the liberal media, Salon has a pretty good piece up about the white supremacist element at CPAC.

And, as the conference gets going, I'm sure MSNBC (and the left side of the blogoshpere) will have a field day with all the hysterical CPAC predictions that the only thing standing between us and Obama's intentional literal destruction of America is a GOP victory in 2012.

156 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:03:51pm

The NASCAR litmus test is knowing when to yell "Kyle Busch Sucks!"

157 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:04:01pm

Lee Garner, Jr. - Mad Men Wiki

158 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:05:08pm

re: #156 jaunte

The NASCAR litmus test is knowing when to yell "Kyle Busch Sucks!"

Wait, I thought it was Jeff Gordon. Damnit, I failed the test, didn't I?

//

159 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:05:20pm

re: #144 Lee Garner Jr.

well I'm a Log Cabin rebublican if you get my drift.

and I think for myself thank you, and in terms of threats to me or my lifestyle: It ain't CPAC.

Welcome to the conversation

160 recusancy  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:05:27pm

re: #144 Lee Garner Jr.

well I'm a Log Cabin rebublican if you get my drift.

and I think for myself thank you, and in terms of threats to me or my lifestyle: It ain't CPAC.

How's Lucky Strike these days?

161 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:06:03pm

Who's in charge of the BBQ tonight? And what flavor is the marinade?

162 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:06:54pm

re: #154 Lee Garner Jr.

what, cars driving in a circle for 4 hours and the guy who doesn't crash and has the fastest car wins?

no thanks. I'll pass

I wasn't aware that this was a litmus test.

I think your ph is well below 7 right now.

163 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:07:33pm

re: #155 palomino

True...one of the more scathing critiques of CPAC comes from right winger John Ziegler, who has come to the realization that his former heroes like Palin and Jerome Corsi are full-of-shit wingnuts.

In defense of the liberal media, Salon has a pretty good piece up about the white supremacist element at CPAC.

And, as the conference gets going, I'm sure MSNBC (and the left side of the blogoshpere) will have a field day with all the hysterical CPAC predictions that the only thing standing between us and Obama's intentional literal destruction of America is a GOP victory in 2012.

omg i'm going to read ziegler. He was up my ass for awhile. I must have stopped answering his pleading emails.

164 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:08:09pm

The whole bishop/contraceptive business needs to be put in perspective. They want to force their religion on their employees, even those not of the faith, and say the government has no place in that. I'd like to ask them how they'd feel if a Muslim business owner declared that all employees, even Catholic ones, had to join him in daily prayers. Or a Jewish one declared that all employees must dine on the business' premises and that they will only eat kosher food while doing so.

165 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:08:39pm

Well that was surprising.

//

166 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:08:57pm

Previously known as: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:09:06pm

CPAC openly accepting the JBS and race-supremacists within their ranks is more dangerous to the health of this nation than is Van Jones. Just sayin'.

168 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:09:21pm

re: #155 palomino

John Ziegler writing for HuffPo! LOL, it's all about the money. WHORES

169 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:10:51pm

@BenjySarlin
CPAC dating expert admits it can be hard to be funny and right-wing.
"I think it's because we're on the defensive a lot." #CPAC12

170 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:11:16pm
CPAC dating expert

Now that's funny.

171 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:12:01pm

re: #169 jaunte

@BenjySarlin
CPAC dating expert admits it can be hard to be funny and right-wing.
"I think it's because we're on the defensive a lot." #CPAC12

I thought it was because he was an uptight dick who just isn't very funny.

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:12:21pm

re: #169 jaunte

@BenjySarlin
CPAC dating expert admits it can be hard to be funny and right-wing.
"I think it's because we're on the defensive a lot." #CPAC12

A good sense of humor is an indication of critical thinking, naturally it's difficult to be right-wing and funny

173 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:12:46pm

re: #170 jaunte

CPAC dating expert

Now that's funny.

Do they have to use Carbon 14?

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:12:54pm

re: #169 jaunte

see also, the impossibility of properly satirizing right-wing churchies, they're too crazed to parody

175 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:13:27pm

re: #173 Just Scroll on By

I think it's one of the forbidden methods.

176 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:13:33pm

re: #172 windupbird is in the gravity well

A good sense of humor is an indication of critical thinking, naturally it's difficult to be right-wing and funny

Are you trying to tell me I'm right-wing?

177 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:13:37pm

re: #173 Just Scroll on By

Do they have to use Carbon 14?

Just cut off an arm and count the rings.

178 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:13:39pm

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

My explanation.

179 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:13:55pm

re: #170 jaunte

Now that's funny.

Yep that's the funniest part. I hear the prostitutes of D.C always do quite well whenever the circus CPAC hits town.

180 austin_blue  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:14:43pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

My explanation.

Yup.

181 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:14:51pm

I think the thread just got enshortened.

182 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:14:58pm

Rohypnol! The CPAC dating aid

183 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:15:10pm

re: #179 HappyWarrior

I see Sarlin is on top of the story:
CPAC Wants To Help You Get A Hot Conservative Date

1.”How do you make them feel comfortable? You talk about your weaknesses,” Elise said. One audience member chimed in with a good one liner to lighten the mood: “I’m Rush Limbaugh’s drug dealer.”

2. On dates, “try to outlaw questions,” Elise said, prompting some quizzical looks from participants. “Say ‘I’m not going to do any questions, I’m going to make statements.’ Why? Because statements say something about you.”

3. Here’s a tip: “When you walk up and you’re talking to the cute girl in a group don’t just talk to the girl. Bring other people in.” In a related tactic, should you see a hot girl in a bar do not approach — instead befriend a less attractive group and then recruit them to help you seduce her.

4. Good date idea? “Tell her you want to take a polaroid camera, walk around Soho in New York or somewhere comparable here, Georgetown maybe, and take pictures together — that’s a fun date.” But one Republican consultant from Sag Harbor, New York had a better one. “A gun club works really well for that thing,” he said. “It’s conservative, it’s fun, most women haven’t done that before…you get to look like you know what you’re doing.”

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:15:26pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

What do you mean "you fucks"?
:P

185 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:16:07pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

My explanation.

I tend to take a wait and see attitude as well.

But this case presented itself as someone I actually wouldn't want in the community. Instantly presented oneself in an uncivil way that is repelling in any social situation - and especially so for a place that is subject to repeated troll drive-bys.

186 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:16:12pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

My explanation.

Troll radar can get false positives, but nine times outta ten, it's right on the money.

187 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:16:46pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

I always try to say hi to Young Libertarian.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:16:51pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

In a reasoned, well thought out reaction to his daughter's inappropriate Facebook post, Dad makes Youtube video where he shoots her laptop with a .45 caliber pistol. Skip to 7 minutes for the display of quality parenting.

[Video]P.S. Shooting down at objects flat on the ground is a firearms safety no no. Bullets can ricochet off of shallow buried rocks.

Hell. My sister-in-law just took away the kid's Facebook account. And phone.

189 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:17:07pm

re: #166 Charles Johnson

Previously known as: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

*facepalm*
I guess i'd better select 'won't get fooled again' by the Who on the stereo..
I was so hoping for a sarcastic log cabin republican.. Now all I get to do is grill troll meat..Salad anyone?

190 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:17:12pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

My explanation.

I thought the Van Jones comment was a dead give away.

191 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:17:28pm

re: #183 jaunte

I see Sarlin is on top of the story:
CPAC Wants To Help You Get A Hot Conservative Date

How did I know that one of the ideas would be take her to a gun club? Shit, I've been shooting before and it's fun and all but it's not my idea of a romantic thing to do. More of a thing you do with a buddy.

192 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:00pm

re: #183 jaunte

I see Sarlin is on top of the story:
CPAC Wants To Help You Get A Hot Conservative Date

"Polaroid camera...."
Yeah, that would be a conservative expert.

193 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:02pm

re: #189 The Hoopster

*facepalm*
I guess i'd better select 'won't get fooled again' by the Who on the stereo..
I was so hoping for a sarcastic log cabin republican.. Now all I get to do is grill troll meat..Salad anyone?

Tuna salad without the greenery, onion, or mayo would be fine.

194 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:05pm

re: #189 The Hoopster

*facepalm*
I guess i'd better select 'won't get fooled again' by the Who on the stereo..
I was so hoping for a sarcastic log cabin republican.. Now all I get to do is grill troll meat..Salad anyone?

Sure, but go light on the dressing. I'm trying to lose weight.

/

195 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:20pm

Meanwhile, the state of Kentucky has learned a valuable lesson the use of navigation lights on bridges. Eggner Ferry Bridge is the one discussed below. It crosses Kentucky Lake.

A mainspan of the bridge collapsed after being struck by the cargo vessel MV Delta Mariner on January 26, 2012. At least four vehicles were reported to be on the bridge near the time of the collapse. One pickup truck stopped about 5 feet (1.5 m) from the edge of the missing section; the driver reported that two cars had stopped directly behind him, and he saw another car on the opposite side of the missing section.[4] No injuries were reported.

The U.S. Coast Guard reported on January 27 that the Delta Mariner hit the bridge when it tried to pass through what is known as the recreational channel, which has a lower clearance, instead of the shipping channel, which the vessel normally used.

Reports indicate that some of the bridge's navigational lighting was inoperative at the time of the incident. Paducah television station WPSD-TV reported earlier in the week that the bridge was to be reduced to one lane on January 27 for a Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) crew to repair the lights. KYTC spokesman Keith Todd stated that the lights facing the MV Delta Mariner were operational, and that the Coast Guard had made the lighting situation known to vessels operating on the waterway.

While no one was injured, and the boat that hit the bridge only suffered cosmetic damage, with no damage to its cargo of Atlas and Centaur Rocket Stages, the bridge is in a condition experts describe as terminally fucked up.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:18:23pm

re: #37 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

How is Brimelow pronounced? Brajm-low or Breemeh-low?

Americans I know with the name say "BRIM-low".

197 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:19:37pm

re: #192 Decatur Deb

"Polaroid camera..."
Yeah, that would be a conservative expert.

I understand that some of the new car-phones are equipped with them.

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:20:08pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Occupy Oakland votes 135-1 to support BDS

Yeah, that happened last week sometime.

One of the local Zionist activists is really upset. She's been very involved in Occupy Oakland from the start. This put her in sort of a tailspin.

199 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:20:12pm

If CPAC is hoping for a Kodak moment they're too late.

200 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:20:22pm

re: #192 Decatur Deb

"Polaroid camera..."
Yeah, that would be a conservative expert.

You can bring the phonograph too and dance the Charleston!

201 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:20:55pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

Americans I know with the name say "BRIM-low".

See, now I thought it was pronounced "Fucking Asshole", I guess its a regional thing.

202 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:20:58pm

re: #195 ProGunLiberal

Meanwhile, the state of Kentucky has learned a valuable lesson the use of navigation lights on bridges. Eggner Ferry Bridge is the one discussed below. It crosses Kentucky Lake.

While no one was injured, and the boat that hit the bridge only suffered cosmetic damage, with no damage to its cargo of Atlas and Centaur Rocket Stages, the bridge is in a condition experts describe as terminally fucked up.

Good thing they didn't waste the extra light bulbs, then.

203 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:21:03pm

re: #193 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Tuna salad without the greenery, onion, or mayo would be fine.

Grilled Tuna with homemade dill sauce tonight.. A fruit salad and fresh baked bread and real butter..

204 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:22:26pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

My explanation.

Oh Sarah, you are just too sweet.

205 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:22:31pm

re: #203 The Hoopster

I'll be there in 15 minutes. Should I bring wine, an action film, or the same porno I brought last time.
/

206 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:22:32pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell. My sister-in-law just took away the kid's Facebook account. And phone.

Don't remember which site it was on, but I read a story today about a guy who killed a husband and wife because they "unfriended" the guy's daughter; the daughter started harassing them and they called the police.

Can't even begin to imagine the thought processes involved in that decision.

207 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:23:07pm

re: #203 The Hoopster

Grilled Tuna with homemade dill sauce tonight.. A fruit salad and fresh baked bread and real butter..

I did some cod and a Indian eggplant curry thing from Trader Joe's. The Feline Overlord got tuna from a can (and the drained water mixed with some fiber powder - basically my version of Cat Laxative.)

208 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:23:33pm

re: #206 BongCrodny

Don't remember which site it was on, but I read a story today about a guy who killed a husband and wife because they "unfriended" the guy's daughter; the daughter started harassing them and they called the police.

Can't even begin to imagine the thought processes involved in that decision.

Really killing someone because they unfriended them. I've been unfriended on facebook before. I shrug and move on.

209 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:24:29pm

re: #206 BongCrodny

Don't remember which site it was on, but I read a story today about a guy who killed a husband and wife because they "unfriended" the guy's daughter; the daughter started harassing them and they called the police.

Can't even begin to imagine the thought processes involved in that decision.

Saw that on an MSNBC feed today or yesterday. And just think that without Facebook the guy would have found something else to have flipped out about.

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:24:37pm

re: #190 Gus

I thought the Van Jones comment was a dead give away.

I AM VERY NAIVE. IM SARAH. GIVE IT UP.

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:24:54pm

re: #208 Southpaw

Really killing someone because they unfriended them. I've been unfriended on facebook before. I shrug and move on.

Shit, I've been "unfriended" in real life and never did anything so drastic.

212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:25:06pm

re: #210 Sarah Palin USA

I AM VERY NAIVE. IM SARAH. GIVE IT UP.

Is that before or after the seagull drinks the beer?

213 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:25:07pm

Rick, you ignorant slut

Santorum: Obama trying to allow Iran to have nuke

Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum on Thursday accused President Barack Obama of actively seeking ways to allow Iran to gain a nuclear weapon and suggested that the administration had betrayed Israel by publicly disclosing what may be a plan to attack the Muslim nation.

Santorum drew connections between the administration's opposition to the Keystone pipeline project, which would bring oil from Canada to U.S. refineries, and American dependency on foreign oil and U.S.-Israel relations.

"We're throwing Israel under the bus because we know we're going to be dependent upon OPEC," Santorum said during a speech in Oklahoma City. "We're going to say, 'Oh, Iran, we don't want you to get a nuclear weapon — wink, wink, nod, nod — go ahead, just give us your oil.' Folks, the president of the United States is selling the economic security of the United States down the river right now."

This from the man who said we need to tell Iran we plan to conduct covert operations against them.

214 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:25:30pm

@ClearlyNM
Hot Dating Tips for Conservatives: "how to avoid scaring away your own personal Dagny Taggart"

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:25:47pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

How did I know that one of the ideas would be take her to a gun club? Shit, I've been shooting before and it's fun and all but it's not my idea of a romantic thing to do. More of a thing you do with a buddy.

It's not romantic, but for some people, especially women, it's a sexual display.

If it works for you.

Eh.

216 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:26:25pm

re: #214 jaunte

@ClearlyNM
Hot Dating Tips for Conservatives: "how to avoid scaring away your own personal Dagny Taggart"

Don't make them look for your rubber froggy in the sudsy bathwater?
;)

217 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:26:29pm

re: #178 Sarah Palin USA

OK let me say, I fail a lot because the peeps here are so brutal on the newbies that I give the newbies a break. Cause they could be me.

But most often you fucks are correct. And I'm naive.

But really, when new people post here, cool it down a bit. I feel you've scared some legitimate peeps away.

I agree with this. Make it so.

Image: sumtP.jpg

218 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:26:44pm

I like long walks on the beach with shotguns.

219 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:27:32pm

re: #217 negativ

I agree with this. Make it so.

Image: sumtP.jpg

Prison rules, you either need to jump some mofo your first night or become someones bitch.
/

220 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:28:34pm

re: #213 Kragar

Rick, you ignorant slut

Santorum: Obama trying to allow Iran to have nuke

This from the man who said we need to tell Iran we plan to conduct covert operations against them.

And this ass whines about people making fun of his last name while he accuses the president of the United States of treason.

221 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:28:46pm

re: #218 jaunte

I like long walks on the beach with shotguns.

...

I like to cuddle next to the warmth of burning crosses.

222 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:28:50pm

re: #215 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not romantic, but for some people, especially women, it's a sexual display.

If it works for you.

Eh.

So I guess this is a sure thing:

Image: Grable_knockhole.jpg

223 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:29:07pm

re: #215 SanFranciscoZionist

I've known plenty of gals that like to go to the gun range. But we've never been to one as a "date". More of a "we're in a comfortable rut now, let's go shoot the shit out of something".

224 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:29:16pm

re: #215 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not romantic, but for some people, especially women, it's a sexual display.

If it works for you.

Eh.

Yeah different strokes for different folks but I thought it was amusing. But then again I wasn't raised with guns.

225 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:30:25pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that happened last week sometime.

One of the local Zionist activists is really upset. She's been very involved in Occupy Oakland from the start. This put her in sort of a tailspin.

It's tough. These populist movements carry a lot of unnecessary baggage. It shouldn't come as a surprise but I guess a lot of people didn't see this coming.

226 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:36:01pm

re: #213 Kragar

Rick, you ignorant slut

Santorum: Obama trying to allow Iran to have nuke

This from the man who said we need to tell Iran we plan to conduct covert operations against them.

Leave it to Santorum to put 2 and 2 together and get 47.

227 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:36:04pm

re: #212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

good one eh?

228 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:38:56pm

re: #224 Southpaw

Yeah different strokes for different folks but I thought it was amusing. But then again I wasn't raised with guns.

I got my first gun when I was 11. It was a Cooey 22. I used it every summer until I shot myself in the foot.

229 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:39:24pm

re: #222 Decatur Deb

So I guess this is a sure thing:

Image: Grable_knockhole.jpg

It's more than a lawn ornament!

A-Bomb Howitzer

230 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:40:25pm

re: #222 Decatur Deb

So I guess this is a sure thing:

Image: Grable_knockhole.jpg

Atomic Annie: Guaranteed to fuck-up somebody's day or your money back.

/

231 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:42:15pm

re: #226 Targetpractice

Leave it to Santorum to put 2 and 2 together and get 47.

Well, he's never exactly going to reach "42" as a significant number for anything.

232 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:42:59pm

re: #230 Targetpractice

Atomic Annie: Guaranteed to fuck-up somebody's day or your money back.

/

"Hurry up and shoot this thing before it's obsolete."

233 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:44:07pm

re: #228 Just Scroll on By

I got my first gun when I was 11. It was a Cooey 22. I used it every summer until I shot myself in the foot.

At which point you realized what an ineffective, wussy gun it was, and got something with more stopping power, right?
/

234 freetoken  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:44:22pm

Even in Japan, the truth eventually works it way to the top:

Fukushima No. 2 plant was 'near meltdown'

The Fukushima No. 2 nuclear power plant was "near meltdown" after being hit by tsunami following the Great East Japan Earthquake on March 11, according to the head of the plant.

The No. 2 plant, on the border of Naraha and Tomioka towns in Fukushima Prefecture, was opened to the media Wednesday for the first time since the disaster. It is 12 kilometers from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, which suffered a meltdown. Both facilities are operated by Tokyo Electric Power Co.

Plant chief Naohiro Masuda, in charge of plant operations since the crisis, told reporters Wednesday, "The No. 2 plant almost suffered the same fate as No. 1 [which led to a severe crisis]."

On March 11, a 9-meter-high tsunami struck the No. 2 plant, while the No. 1 plant was hit by a 13-meter-high tsunami. The tsunami caused the No. 2 plant's seawater pumps, used to cool reactors, to fail. Of the plant's four reactors, three were in danger of meltdown.

Luckily, one external high-voltage power line still functioned, allowing plant staff in the central control room to monitor data on internal reactor temperatures and water levels.

[...]

There were/are systematic failures in Japan's nuclear power industry. They're lucky they got by with as little damage that they did. I wonder how they could have handled a second power plant going into meltdown.

235 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:45:33pm

re: #234 freetoken

Even in Japan, the truth eventually works it way to the top:

Fukushima No. 2 plant was 'near meltdown'

There were/are systematic failures in Japan's nuclear power industry. They're lucky they got by with as little damage that they did. I wonder how they could have handled a second power plant going into meltdown.

If the first was any indication, probably as bad or worse than they actually did.

236 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:46:18pm

CNN's Dana Loesch:
Liberals Want To "Tear Apart" And "Control" Your Rights,
Just Like In Nazi Germany And "Mother Russia"

"They probably don't like the founding documents either."

"This country is liberated by faith and faith alone."

"We are inherently selfish and sinful creatures."

Eric Boehlert: "Just another day in RW world."

237 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:47:28pm

re: #233 Slumbering Behemoth

At which point you realized what an ineffective, wussy gun it was, and got something with more stopping power, right?
/

A compound bow with 60# draw. A compound bow with 40# draw. Another compound bow with 40# draw. Another compound bow with 60# draw.

I haven't quite figured out how to use them all at the same time.

238 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:47:33pm

re: #234 freetoken

Even in Japan, the truth eventually works it way to the top:

Fukushima No. 2 plant was 'near meltdown'

There were/are systematic failures in Japan's nuclear power industry. They're lucky they got by with as little damage that they did. I wonder how they could have handled a second power plant going into meltdown.

Perfect bureaucratic timing:

Nuclear agency approves first nuclear reactors since 1978

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

239 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:48:11pm

re: #224 Southpaw

Yeah different strokes for different folks but I thought it was amusing. But then again I wasn't raised with guns.

When I lived in Washington I used to go shooting at the range / gun shop featured in the story below:

A 30-year-old Kirkland woman, on a church-group outing with Chumney and others, aimed a powerful .44-caliber revolver downrange as she fired the first shot, but the recoil caused the gun to raise into the air.

When a second round was fired, the recoil pushed the woman's arms back over her shoulder and a third shot, probably a reflex from the recoil, hit Chumney in the neck.

Worst church outing ever! This was the inspiration for my rule that beginners get one round only on their first few attempts to fire any new higher caliber - non negotiable.

240 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:48:47pm

re: #236 jaunte

CNN's Dana Loesch:
Liberals Want To "Tear Apart" And "Control" Your Rights,
Just Like In Nazi Germany And "Mother Russia"

Eric Boehlert: "Just another day in RW world."

What an idjit.

241 freetoken  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:49:32pm

Another nation doomed:


Haiti's slow recovery leading to discontent

The slow pace of rebuilding in Haiti two years after a devastating earthquake has demoralized Haitians and could destabilize the country, Prime Minister Garry Conille said Thursday.

242 Kaessa  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:51:09pm

re: #208 Southpaw

Really killing someone because they unfriended them. I've been unfriended on facebook before. I shrug and move on.

My own daughter unfriended me on Facebook. I certainly didn't shed a tear over it. She'll get over it eventually... or she won't. I'm certainly not going to go shoot her over it.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

243 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:52:00pm

re: #234 freetoken

Even in Japan, the truth eventually works it way to the top:

Fukushima No. 2 plant was 'near meltdown'

There were/are systematic failures in Japan's nuclear power industry. They're lucky they got by with as little damage that they did. I wonder how they could have handled a second power plant going into meltdown.

Good grief.

244 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:52:14pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

How did I know that one of the ideas would be take her to a gun club? Shit, I've been shooting before and it's fun and all but it's not my idea of a romantic thing to do. More of a thing you do with a buddy.

You have to hold the pistol firmly and focus your vision on the front sight, which means the target will go out of focus. You must squeeze the trigger firmly, smoothly, and deliberately. If you jerk it haphazardly, you'll veer wildly off target.

You must let the pistol's reaction surprise you. It will be very loud, and there will be a significant physical reaction ("recoil") that is not at all conveyed by the movies from which most peoples' firearms (mis)conceptions arise. To shoot accurately, you have to prepare yourself to be startled. Zen masters have spent their entire lives trying to figure out how to prepare to be startled. If you anticipate the bang, you'll flinch and jerk the pistol, thereby missing your target.

Sooner or later, all of the parts will fall into place and you'll make a perfect shot. You'll chase the replication of that perfect shot for the rest of your life.

From the book, "Zen in the Art of Archery":

The archer ceases to be conscious of himself as the one who is engaged in hitting the bull's-eye which confronts him. This state of unconscious is realized only when, completely empty and rid of the self, he becomes one with the perfecting of his technical skill, though there is in it something of a quite different order which cannot be attained by any progressive study of the art

You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure out why all that stuff could make for a good date.

Then again, you shouldn't listen to me, as I haven't had so much as a handshake in going on 6 years.

245 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:52:59pm

re: #237 Just Scroll on By

A compound bow with 60# draw. A compound bow with 40# draw. Another compound bow with 40# draw. Another compound bow with 60# draw.

I haven't quite figured out how to use them all at the same time.

GRO MOAR ARMS!!!

246 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:53:20pm

re: #238 Decatur Deb

Perfect bureaucratic timing:

Nuclear agency approves first nuclear reactors since 1978

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

I had a buddy that worked on the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant back in the day.

He said he and his crew used to go in to work all coked out from the nights before.

It made me feel much, much safer knowing that.

247 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:53:29pm

re: #242 Kaessa

My own daughter unfriended me on Facebook. I certainly didn't shed a tear over it. She'll get over it eventually... or she won't. I'm certainly not going to go shoot her over it.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

If your avatar is you, that's one helluvan evil smile.

248 Kaessa  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:54:52pm

re: #247 Just Scroll on By

If your avatar is you, that's one helluvan evil smile.

Yes, that's me. I'm only evil on Mondays, and every other Thursday.

249 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:55:32pm

DIY Onion gambit:

Mississippi State Rep. Steve Holland has had a busy afternoon. After we reported his introduction of H.B. 150 yesterday, a bill that aims to rename the Gulf of Mexico the very pro-'Merican, Onion-worthy title "Gulf of America," the Democrat's office has been flooded with press calls to respond to, essentially, "what the hell are you doing?"

Turns out Holland has a bit of a goof streak going on. He called Gambit to tell us the bill is his tongue-in-cheek single-finger salute to mock his Republican peers obsessed with illegal immigration.
[Link: www.bestofneworleans.com...]

250 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:56:03pm

re: #248 Kaessa

Yes, that's me. I'm only evil on Mondays, and every other Thursday.

Is today that Thursday, or one of the other Thursdays?...

251 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:56:38pm

re: #246 BongCrodny

I had a buddy that worked on the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant back in the day.

He said he and his crew used to go in to work all coked out from the nights before.

It made me feel much, much safer knowing that.

Nukes have a place (like 15 mi from here), I just wish they'd let a not-for-profit agency like the Navy run them.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:57:47pm

re: #239 goddamnedfrank

Once upon a time I took a girlfriend out to the range, and gave her a turn shooting that same kind of gun. A Taurus even.

She said she had never been shooting before, so I stood behind her bracing for impact. She was pretty small, after all. Heh, she handled it like a pro. Didn't hit targets for shit at first, but she handled the recoil like a pro.

253 Kaessa  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 6:58:41pm

re: #250 Wozza Matter?

Is today that Thursday, or one of the other Thursdays?...

Today would be that Thursday. Medication change, and I'm feeling all sorts of cranky. I want to break things, and the Republican insanity today is not making my mood any better. I should probably get off the internet and go pet one of my cats or brush one of the dogs or something.

254 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:00:46pm

re: #253 Kaessa

Today would be that Thursday. Medication change, and I'm feeling all sorts of cranky. I want to break things, and the Republican insanity today is not making my mood any better. I should probably get off the internet and go pet one of my cats or brush one of the dogs or something.

Here, take some thermal detonators.
Ought to help.

255 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:00:49pm

re: #236 jaunte

CNN's Dana Loesch:
Liberals Want To "Tear Apart" And "Control" Your Rights,
Just Like In Nazi Germany And "Mother Russia"

Eric Boehlert: "Just another day in RW world."

Hyperbole much Dana? Yes, this is just like Nazi Germany. Why, there's a concentration camp for dissents and minorities right there.

256 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:01:07pm

re: #248 Kaessa

Yes, that's me. I'm only evil on Mondays, and every other Thursday.

My universe is recreated and memories implanted in my mind every Thursday, so we have something in common.

257 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:01:34pm

re: #253 Kaessa

Today would be that Thursday. Medication change, and I'm feeling all sorts of cranky. I want to break things, and the Republican insanity today is not making my mood any better. I should probably get off the internet and go pet one of my cats or brush one of the dogs or something.

Evil is good now'an'again. I embrace it *mwah-ha-ha-ha*

Petting cats while feeling evil can lead to this...(if movies have taught me anything)
Image: cat.jpg

G'night and here's to productive evil.

258 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:02:16pm

re: #250 Wozza Matter?

Is today that Thursday, or one of the other Thursdays?...

Do you mean it's the same day as here over there across the giant pond?

259 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:02:56pm

re: #258 Just Scroll on By

Do you mean it's the same day as here over there across the giant pond?

Well, I'm now on Friday. 3hrs in.

Anyhews, g'night folks and folkettes.

260 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:03:34pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

Once upon a time I took a girlfriend out to the range, and gave her a turn shooting that same kind of gun. A Taurus even.

She said she had never been shooting before, so I stood behind her bracing for impact. She was pretty small, after all. Heh, she handled it like a pro. Didn't hit targets for shit at first, but she handled the recoil like a pro.

How did you disguise your excitement?

261 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:04:51pm

re: #253 Kaessa

Today would be that Thursday. Medication change, and I'm feeling all sorts of cranky. I want to break things, and the Republican insanity today is not making my mood any better. I should probably get off the internet and go pet one of my cats or brush one of the dogs or something.

Changing med time is always a bit weird and disconcerting.

262 brennant  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:05:26pm

Tonight is a bourbon and ginger ale kinda night. It's frothy out there tonight.

263 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:05:57pm

re: #259 Wozza Matter?

Well, I'm now on Friday. 3hrs in.

What are you doing up so late?

264 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:06:14pm

Cal Thomas still winning the CPAC Jackass Quote of the Day

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:08:36pm

re: #260 Just Scroll on By

How did you disguise your excitement?

On first scan, I read that as "How did you disguise your excrement?"

Heh.

266 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:09:10pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

Once upon a time I took a girlfriend out to the range, and gave her a turn shooting that same kind of gun. A Taurus even.

She said she had never been shooting before, so I stood behind her bracing for impact. She was pretty small, after all. Heh, she handled it like a pro. Didn't hit targets for shit at first, but she handled the recoil like a pro.

In my experience, women are almost always better shooters than men once they get past the initiation stage. Often more enthusiastic about it as a sport, too.

267 Kaessa  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:09:22pm

Here is my evil cat.

Image: shiva.jpg

Not really, he's a big teddy bear. I think I'll go snuggle him for a while. Thanks for the thermal detonators, Varek, I'm sure they'll come in handy.

268 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:10:14pm

re: #264 jaunte

Cal Thomas still winning the CPAC Jackass Quote of the Day

Didn't he write a book on "political civility" with Bill Press not that long ago? Seriously what a douche thing to say and I am sure he also is convinced that the left are the real meanies and the right are just nice people defending themselves against the liberal menace.

269 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:10:52pm

re: #264 jaunte

Cal Thomas still winning the CPAC Jackass Quote of the Day

Well, at least he didn't say 'abortion'.
/

270 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:11:12pm

re: #267 Kaessa

Here is my evil cat.

Image: shiva.jpg

Not really, he's a big teddy bear. I think I'll go snuggle him for a while. Thanks for the thermal detonators, Varek, I'm sure they'll come in handy.

That's Remmy of a different colour. Change him to grey with a few splotches of white and he'd be my cat's twin.

271 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:11:56pm

re: #267 Kaessa

Here is my evil cat.

Image: shiva.jpg

Not really, he's a big teddy bear. I think I'll go snuggle him for a while. Thanks for the thermal detonators, Varek, I'm sure they'll come in handy.

Way to go Varek. A Feline Overlord just got control of a few thermal detonators.

(I wanted them. Wah!)

272 Mocking Jay  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:12:08pm

Cal Thomas should've been a blow job.

273 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:12:19pm

re: #268 HappyWarrior

'Common Ground'

Inspired by their popular USA Today column, conservative Cal Thomas and liberal Bob Beckel unmask the hypocrisy of the issues, organizations, and individuals that have created and deepened the partisan divide at the center of American politics, and make a strategic case for why this bickering must stop.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

274 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:13:11pm

re: #273 jaunte

'Common Ground'

Bob Beckel not Bill Press, my bad. But yeah what a crite. Don't like the people on MSNBC but that's a low blow what he did.

275 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:13:44pm

re: #273 jaunte

'Common Ground'

Is this the GOP version of "bickering" where the "compromise" solution is for the Democrats to cave on all the issues and give them everything they want?
//

276 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:14:37pm

Did you save any BBQ troll toes for me?

277 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:14:50pm

Goodnight all you implanted memories.

278 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:16pm

The Fox News Effect?:
'Blonde women only' Maldives island hits snag as half of staff need wigs

279 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:23pm

re: #276 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Did you save any BBQ troll toes for me?

Knuckles, no toes.

280 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:15:36pm

re: #266 negativ

In my experience, women are almost always better shooters than men once they get past the initiation stage. Often more enthusiastic about it as a sport, too.

The female of the species, eh? They like to act all cute and cuddly and nurturing and shit, but they're much more violent and bloodthirsty than their male counterparts could ever hope to be.

True story, bro.

281 freetoken  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:18:41pm

re: #278 jaunte

The Fox News Effect?:
'Blonde women only' Maldives island hits snag as half of staff need wigs

Given the overthrow of the government in the Maldives, I'm surprised that anyone is really interested in going there.

282 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:18:56pm

re: #279 Just Scroll on By

Knuckles, no toes.

Toes got nasty crud on them anyway.

283 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:19:26pm

re: #278 jaunte

The Fox News Effect?:
'Blonde women only' Maldives island hits snag as half of staff need wigs

Why buy wigs? Bottle of bleach is cheaper.

284 jaunte  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:19:36pm

re: #281 freetoken

At second glance it looks like an invented story.

285 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:21:15pm

re: #275 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Is this the GOP version of "bickering" where the "compromise" solution is for the Democrats to cave on all the issues and give them everything they want?
//

You just perfectly described one of my ex g/f's idea of "compromise".

/if you dated her too, I'm sorry, but she was like that when I found her...

286 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:22:31pm

re: #272 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Amusing historical note:

Cal Thomas, formerly the Vice Grand Wazoo of Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority" was the guy to whom Jimmy Swaggart first admitted to having done "something pornographic" with a ridiculously skanky Louisiana prostitute.

287 Mocking Jay  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:26:50pm

re: #286 negativ

Amusing historical note:

Cal Thomas, formerly the Vice Grand Wazoo of Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority" was the guy to whom Jimmy Swaggart first admitted to having done "something pornographic" with a ridiculously skanky Louisiana prostitute.

It wasn't homo, so it's all good.

288 palomino  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:29:05pm

re: #168 Sarah Palin USA

John Ziegler writing for HuffPo! LOL, it's all about the money. WHORES

HuffPo has some conservative contributors...David Frum, Shmuley Boteach, Joe Scarborough and Ziegler are the first that come to mind. What they all seem to have in common is a genuine distaste for the direction of conservatism over the last few years.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:30:36pm

re: #288 palomino

HuffPo has some conservative contributors...David Frum, Shmuley Boteach, Joe Scarborough and Ziegler are the first that come to mind. What they all seem to have in common is a genuine distaste for the direction of conservatism over the last few years.

Boteach drives me mad.

290 freetoken  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:31:29pm

Coming to a theatre near you (maybe):

Morgan Freeman Heading to the Future with Tom Cruise in 'Oblivion'

His booming voice served as the narration to space and the heavens themselves in the Science Channel series "Through the Wormhole," but now Morgan Freeman will be headed into the future. Deadline has word that the veteran actor has landed a critical role in Oblivion, the big budget sci-fi film from Tron Legacy director Joseph Kosinski with Tom Cruise starring. The film follows the last man (Cruise) on a post-apocalyptic and nearly uninhabitable Earth, who stays behind to repair ships that hunt down and blast a virulent alien species. However, at this time it's not clear what role Freeman has landed in the sci-fi story.

[...]

Tom Cruise... maybe the movie will be quality anyway.

291 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:31:51pm

Pascal's Wager is old and busted.

Pascal’s Roulette is the new hawtness!!!

292 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:32:13pm

Cal Thomas

isn't he that commentator person who commentates on teevee shows looking like he just got back from 1956?

293 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:33:44pm

Adele covering Bonnie Riatt

Youtube Video
294 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:34:39pm

re: #290 freetoken

Tron: Legacy was crap. Would it be wrong of me to expect the same of this?

295 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:37:08pm

re: #288 palomino

HuffPo has some conservative contributors...David Frum, Shmuley Boteach, Joe Scarborough, and Ziegler are the first that come to mind. What they all seem to have in common is a genuine distaste for the direction of conservatism over the last few years.

Youtube Video
296 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:37:52pm

re: #276 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Did you save any BBQ troll toes for me?

Which troll got the stick?

297 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:40:11pm

Adele & Alicia cover cover Bob Dylan ~ Make You Feel My Love ~

Youtube Video
298 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:46:54pm

re: #296 Dark_Falcon

Talked with the Imam yesterday. It was very productive.

299 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:50:22pm

Oh no, I killed the thread.

300 freetoken  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:50:26pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

Tron: Legacy was crap. Would it be wrong of me to expect the same of this?

No.

301 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:51:09pm

re: #293 prairiefire

I have a soft spot in my heart for Bonnie Riatt. Some of her stuff puts a bit of water in my eyes.

Youtube Video
302 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:51:49pm

re: #292 engineer cat

Cal Thomas

isn't he that commentator person who commentates on teevee shows looking like he just got back from 1956?

He'd be angry that you thought he was so modern...

///

303 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:06:01pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

Tron: Legacy was crap.

The movie? Yeah. It sucked.

The soundtrack, OTOH, was sheer awesome. Daft Punk are great.

304 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:10:18pm

re: #303 Lidane

The CGI was pretty kick ass as well. The story sucked digital balls.

A more interesting story could have been told if "Dad" were cast as the evil tyrant, and "Clone_Dad" were cast as the anti-tyrant.

305 palomino  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:14:49pm

re: #295 negativ

[Video]

For different reasons, it could be ANY of those people who don't belong.

306 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:17:46pm

PLL Are you here? I just got an alert that to vote in the presidential primaries you must register by Friday for Oklahoma..
I know how it is in College..I was going to vote but ( fill in the blank )
*wink*

307 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:20:00pm

re: #301 Slumbering Behemoth

I have a soft spot in my heart for Bonnie Riatt. Some of her stuff puts a bit of water in my eyes.

[Video]

"I can't make you love me if you don't" Simple poetry. She is John Riatt's daughter. He was famous for opening in "The Pajama Game" on Broadway in the late 50's.

308 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:21:52pm

re: #301 Slumbering Behemoth

So young...

309 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:22:31pm

re: #298 ProGunLiberal

Talked with the Imam yesterday. It was very productive.

Glad to hear that.

I've been thinking about Syria though: Despite Senator McCain's idea to arm the Free Syrian Army, I find such an idea unwise. The FSA has too many members of the Muslim Brotherhood in it to embrace. And given religious issues in play, I do not wish to provide weapons to those who may end up using them to ethinically cleanse Shiites and Christians. We should not wish to reprise 1971 East Pakistan, where US built M24 light tanks were used by the Pakistani Army to murder unarmed civilians.

310 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:25:45pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

What about NATO?

311 palomino  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:28:59pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

Glad to hear that.

I've been thinking about Syria though: Despite Senator McCain's idea to arm the Free Syrian Army, I find such an idea unwise. The FSA has too many members of the Muslim Brotherhood in it to embrace. And given religious issues in play, I do not wish to provide weapons to those who may end up using them to ethinically cleanse Shiites and Christians. We should not wish to reprise 1971 East Pakistan, where US built M24 light tanks were used by the Pakistani Army to murder unarmed civilians.

The relative ease with which we succeeded in Libya has understandably caused many to call for similar action against Syria. But the two situations are quite different, and we can't just rush in each time as if all despotic rampages were just like Gaddafi's.

312 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:30:39pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

Glad to hear that.

I've been thinking about Syria though: Despite Senator McCain's idea to arm the Free Syrian Army, I find such an idea unwise. The FSA has too many members of the Muslim Brotherhood in it to embrace. And given religious issues in play, I do not wish to provide weapons to those who may end up using them to ethinically cleanse Shiites and Christians. We should not wish to reprise 1971 East Pakistan, where US built M24 light tanks were used by the Pakistani Army to murder unarmed civilians.

Or more recently, Stingers & more for the mujahideen of Afghanistan with consequences far beyond what Charlie Wilson considered.

313 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:32:17pm

re: #306 The Hoopster

I'm registered in Colorado to vote. That is still my major home.

When is the next Cleveland County Democrats event.

314 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:35:09pm

re: #313 ProGunLiberal

I'm registered in Colorado to vote. That is still my major home.

When is the next Cleveland County Democrats event.

There is a cornbread thing Friday night..I won't be there.. It's Friday night in Norman.. There will be a lunch this month

315 Swampwitch  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:37:17pm

re: #111 BongCrodny
Anyone who catches Ministry of Silly Walks is cool in my book.
Silly Walks AND Jim Stafford? Cool squared.

316 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:40:29pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

In regards to Syria, I think the best thing is probably to have a few NATO nations start to intervene.

Then, after Assad falls, push for some sort of Massive Multilateral Occupation of Syria, and likely Lebanon. I think it is likely that, if Assad falls, Hezbollah will pull an self-coup, and turn Lebanon into a Dictatorship, along with the support of Michel Aoun's Maronite followers. The US would provide logistical support until after the election, then would directly join in.

Also, if both Syria and Lebanon slide, discuss with Jordan in perhaps fusing creating some sort of Levantine Arab Federation to balance the Saudis out.

The Imam actually took an interesting position in regards to the MSA President. He said I had every right to worry, and to watch him. However, like "Croatian," he said not to do anything directly. He thinks the MSA President will either reform himself, or or will end up hoist on his own petard. He also said he like that I am able to criticize other Muslims, as many people will not attack others who are wrong if they are in the same group.

Also, my Imam is a Palestinian-American, who survived a Massacre at a Refugee Camp in Lebanon by Falangists during the Lebanese Civil War. He outright admitted that, because of it, he is ultra-pacifist.

317 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:40:44pm

OK. Has anyone here read the new Stephen King book, 11/23/63? I keep seeing people rant and rave about it online. Is it really that good?

318 Swampwitch  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:42:12pm

For what it's worth, King is Catholic. And I do mean Catholic...in the same vein as Mel Gibson and his daddy.

319 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:42:12pm

re: #312 William Barnett-Lewis

Or more recently, Stingers & more for the mujahideen of Afghanistan with consequences far beyond what Charlie Wilson considered.

Wilson's mistake was the same as others have made in the past, believing that we support freedom movements because we wish people to be free, rather than because there's something in it for us. We supported the Mujahadeen and other Afghani freedom fighters because we saw it as a way to put a thumb in the Kremlin's eye, not because we wanted to free the Afghani people.

321 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:42:56pm

re: #312 William Barnett-Lewis

Or more recently, Stingers & more for the mujahideen of Afghanistan with consequences far beyond what Charlie Wilson considered.

I think it would have been good for our country if someone would have had the foresight of Charlie Wilson, if he had lived to an old age.

322 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:43:25pm

re: #303 Lidane

The movie? Yeah. It sucked.

The soundtrack, OTOH, was sheer awesome. Daft Punk are great.

the soundtrack is genius, was just listening to it

323 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:44:05pm

re: #316 ProGunLiberal

The problem is China. We let them into the UN. Now we have to listen to their anti individual bullshit.

324 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:52:39pm

re: #311 palomino

The relative ease with which we succeeded in Libya has understandably caused many to call for similar action against Syria. But the two situations are quite different, and we can't just rush in each time as if all despotic rampages were just like Gaddafi's.

It's a miracle that the Libyan rebels managed to to eek out a win, even with our providing total air superiority after the assault on Benghazi. I've mentioned before that the Orks in 40k convey a better overall sense of martial discipline, organization and strategic forethought. Forget about the rampant ammunition shortages caused by everyone firing wildly into the air after every minor victory, and that led to later retreats, this is what the rebel armor looked like:

Youtube Video

Look at that looted turret and its improvised welded frame. See how the whole jerry rigged assembly sways dangerously as the weapon is fired. That is some orky shit right there, held together by nothing more than wishful thinking and the psychic glue of sheer desperation.

This isn't a dig on Libyans, or Middle Easterners, it's just the logical imbalance of power that results from a civilian force attempting to take on anything close to resembling a modern military.

325 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:54:33pm

DERP

326 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:55:45pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

I'll say now what I said many times under Bush: If Obama truly were as dictatorial as any of the past or present dictators his critics love to compare him to, they'd be hanging in a dungeon by their thumbs right now instead of telling everybody and their uncle about how "bad" he is on the Internet.

327 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:55:46pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

What a fucking nutball. He's projecting more than an IMAX theater.

328 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:55:50pm

re: #323 prairiefire

At this point, we do it independent of the UN. If my mental calculations are correct, we might have the numbers to stop either the Security Council or General Assembly from acting against us. We can play the same game as China or Russia, but to save lives.

Off the top of my head, we have:

NATO (28)
Arab League (-Syria, Lebanon, and Sudan) (19)
Sweden
Finland
New Zealand
Australia
Mexico

I'm also noticing a number of nations in Africa yelling about this (Gabon and Botswana are the loudest). In addition, we might be able to pull along Columbia and the Caribbean nations that are not on Chavez's side.

In order for this to work, we need 97 nations. We could exploit the rivalry between China and Surrounding nations to pick up a few more, and Andorra and Liechtenstein are in the UN. It is completely plausible to hamstring the UN from acting against an intervention. It just requires finesse and geopolitics.

329 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:56:57pm

re: #312 William Barnett-Lewis

Or more recently, Stingers & more for the mujahideen of Afghanistan with consequences far beyond what Charlie Wilson considered.

Well, to be fair we did get what we originally wanted out of Afghanistan. But we then proceeded to forget about the place, and had to pay a bloody price for that desire to forget.

330 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:57:47pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Hopefully we learned never to forget again.

I think it is completely plausible to flout the UN on Syria.

331 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:57:52pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

WTF?

332 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 8:58:43pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

Moar Derp from dkos: Amerikan soldiers are Nazis or something because Orrin Hatch and ChristoSuprecism...
Open Thread for Night Owls: 'SS' gets a proud display by a few Marine snipers

333 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:00:38pm

re: #332 Killgore Trout

The fact that happened requires an investigation and punishment.

334 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:01:39pm

re: #333 ProGunLiberal

The fact that happened requires an investigation and punishment.

...and not political exploitation.

335 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:01:46pm

After Report, Islamophobic Group Scrubs Quote Legitimizing Anti-Muslim Norwegian Mass Murderer

In the 1,500-page manifesto he wrote before slaughtering 77 people, Breivik, who appeared in court this week, recommended a Clarion Film for “further study” about Islam. The reader in the newsletter, whom Clarion claimed was writing from Norway, both whitewashed Breivik’s worldview — falsely suggesting his opposition was only to “Islamist terrorism” rather than to the religion Islam in general — and seemed to claim that a new report from Norway’s security agencies vindicated the mass-killer’s views.

As of yesterday, the comment by the “reader in Norway” no longer appeared on the Clarion site, [link redacted]. The entire newsletter, which used to be available on the web by clicking on a link in the e-mail, now takes viewers to a Clarion page that reads: “The requested page could not be found”. Reached on his cellphone, Clarion official Alex Traiman declined to comment to repeated questions about the newsletter and its disappearance from the web.

336 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:02:40pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

337 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:03:13pm

re: #332 Killgore Trout

Moar Derp from dkos: Amerikan soldiers are Nazis or something because Orrin Hatch and ChristoSuprecism...
dailykos.com...]>Open Thread for Night Owls: 'SS' gets a proud display by a few Marine snipers

1.) Your link is borked.

2.) If the SS flag was flown at an OWS rally your reaction probably wouldn't be so dismissive.

338 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:03:50pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

...and not political exploitation.

Right. Because a bunch of Marine snipers sitting in front of an American flag and a Nazi flag aren't making a political statement.

339 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:07:38pm

Extremely damaging.
Image: scoutsniperflag.jpg

340 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:10:38pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

...and not political exploitation.

Do you assert that the Marines who flew a flag bearing a fer-real-no-shit Nazi emblem -- in a country where local propaganda regularly compares American forces to Nazis -- were merely ignorant (BOYS WILL BE BOYS)?

341 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:11:12pm

re: #338 Lidane

Right. Because a bunch of Marine snipers sitting in front of an American flag and a Nazi flag aren't making a political statement.

They're Scout Snipers. It's plausible they just borrowed the SS logo because they thought it looked cool, and either weren't aware of the connotations or simply didn't realize the grave weight it carried. Anyway it's not clear that collective guilt applies to all of them, this was likely the idea of one or two people in charge of the unit, with the rest simply along for the esprit de corps.

342 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:12:48pm

re: #341 goddamnedfrank

They're Scout Snipers. It's plausible they just borrowed the SS logo because they thought it looked cool, and either weren't aware of the connotations or simply didn't realize the grave weight it carried. Anyway it's not clear that collective guilt applies to all of them, this was likely the idea of one or two people in charge of the unit, with the rest simply along for the esprit de corps.

No.
I won't accept that excuse.
I've known what that symbol has meant since I was about 10 and would under no circumstances ever use it.
Ever.

343 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:14:06pm

re: #342 Varek Raith

No.
I won't accept that excuse.
I've know what that symbol has meant since I was about 10.

Good for you. Not everyone is as aware of these things as you are.

344 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:14:14pm

re: #340 negativ

Do you assert that the Marines who flew a flag bearing a fer-real-no-shit Nazi emblem -- in a country where local propaganda regularly compares American forces to Nazis -- were merely ignorant (BOYS WILL BE BOYS)?

You are implying that you think that American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?

345 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:14:40pm

re: #341 goddamnedfrank

They're Scout Snipers. It's plausible they just borrowed the SS logo because they thought it looked cool, and either weren't aware of the connotations or simply didn't realize the grave weight it carried. Anyway it's not clear that collective guilt applies to all of them, this was likely the idea of one or two people in charge of the unit, with the rest simply along for the esprit de corps.

I find that very hard to believe, as it's not exactly obscure knowledge what the SS emblem looked like. That's a bit like saying that wearing white hoods is forgivable because not everybody knows the negative connotations behind them.

Really, I don't care whose bright idea it was, they all deserve a minimum of a very public dressing down for such stupidity. If those responsible are figured out, then tack on some time in the pen to "think about it." But this "boys will be boys" shit does not cut it.

346 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:15:41pm

Well shit.

347 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:18:13pm

re: #332 Killgore Trout

Moar Derp from dkos: Amerikan soldiers are Nazis or something because Orrin Hatch and ChristoSuprecism...
Open Thread for Night Owls: 'SS' gets a proud display by a few Marine snipers

So you're going to pull a tu quoque with Neil Boortz insane comment with an obscure blog posting at the Daily Kos with 41 comments? And Boortz having a following of 75,978 alone and a syndicated radio talk show while this obscure guy on DK, Meteor Blades, having only 1,907 followers?

That same DK guy is also bringing up a topic we brought up today and linked to that blog you linked: Mitch McConnell's attack on 'liberal thugs' will be only one bite at CPAC's red-meat conference.

I really don't see anything extremist in this guy's blog post about the Marines. It's rather light within the context of leftism. Extremism is a spectrum. And to that end Boortz wins the prize compared to "obscure guy" at the Daily Kos.

348 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:19:34pm

re: #40 Gus

He laughs it off. And Slate's Dave Weigel laughs it off:

[Video]

Weigel, you douchebag...

349 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:19:51pm

re: #344 Killgore Trout

You are implying that you think that American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?

No. That's not what he said. He said they are in country that frequently (according to his assessment) compares our soldier to Nazis.

350 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:19:52pm

re: #326 Targetpractice

I'll say now what I said many times under Bush: If Obama truly were as dictatorial as any of the past or present dictators his critics love to compare him to, they'd be hanging in a dungeon by their thumbs right now instead of telling everybody and their uncle about how "bad" he is on the Internet.

*cough*

Troofer is as troofer does.

351 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:24:27pm

And then everyone fell asleep.

352 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:25:42pm

re: #351 Gus

And then everyone fell asleep.

I blame the SS.

353 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:25:47pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

Assad? Really? The Derpmongers have apparently worn out the really scary dictators and they've worked their way down the list to compare Obama to this brutish pipsqueak. Assad is certainly no Hitler or Stalin, though he does rather resemble Himmler.

354 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:26:06pm

re: #350 Slumbering Behemoth

*cough*

Troofer is as troofer does.

Image: gbeck5.gif

355 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:27:17pm

re: #342 Varek Raith

No.
I won't accept that excuse.
I've known what that symbol has meant since I was about 10 and would under no circumstances ever use it.
Ever.

**you rock**.

356 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:28:45pm

re: #353 Shiplord Kirel

Assad? Really? The Derpmongers have apparently worn out the really scary dictators and they've worked their way down the list to compare Obama to this brutish pipsqueak. Assad is certainly no Hitler or Stalin, though he does rather resemble Himmler.

But wait! There's moar! I thought Assad was the right wing hero and the glue that kept Egypt together preventing it from becoming a belligerent state and putting Israel in grave danger? Iz confused now.

357 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:30:34pm

re: #356 Gus

But wait! There's moar! I thought Assad was the right wing hero and the glue that kept Egypt together preventing it from becoming a belligerent state and putting Israel in grave danger? Iz confused now.

No, that was Mubarak, who like Col. Mo, the wingnuts went between demanding we invade in order to dispose to supporting because their leadership maintained the "status quo." The Right's not sure whose underpants they want to wear these days, Reagan's or Dubya's, so they switch between them depending on what Obama does that day.

358 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:30:56pm

re: #357 Targetpractice

No, that was Mubarak, who like Col. Mo, the wingnuts went between demanding we invade in order to dispose to supporting because their leadership maintained the "status quo." The Right's not sure whose underpants they want to wear these days, Reagan's or Dubya's, so they switch between them depending on what Obama does that day.

Oh. Right, right, right.

359 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:32:25pm

re: #337 goddamnedfrank

1.) Your link is borked.

2.) If the SS flag was flown at an OWS rally your reaction probably wouldn't be so dismissive.

Only leftists are ebil!!!

360 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:32:26pm

re: #357 Targetpractice

No, that was Mubarak, who like Col. Mo, the wingnuts went between demanding we invade in order to dispose to supporting because their leadership maintained the "status quo." The Right's not sure whose underpants they want to wear these days, Reagan's or Dubya's, so they switch between them depending on what Obama does that day.

But! As soon as Assad falls -- hopefully soon -- we'll start seeing the Islamists and possibly the Muslim Brotherhood crawl out of the wood work. 100 bucks says that Assad will become a hero then. ;)

361 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:33:34pm

re: #341 goddamnedfrank

I expect better from you than that. Unless you forgot the /// ?

362 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:34:39pm

re: #346 Varek Raith

Well shit.

Honestly, when you say you are to the right, I see it as a more younger tack to the middle. How are you to the right in opinion, Varek?

363 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:34:47pm

re: #360 Gus

But! As soon as Assad falls -- hopefully soon -- we'll start seeing the Islamists and possibly the Muslim Brotherhood crawl out of the wood work. 100 bucks says that Assad will become a hero then. ;)

They usually save the "His rule is needed to keep stability!" bit until Obama agrees to doing more than just talking about supporting regime change. Before then, it's "Obama's 'leading from behind' while thousands get slaughtered!"

364 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:36:02pm

re: #362 prairiefire

Honestly, when you say you are to the right, I see it as a more younger tack to the middle. How are you to the right in opinion, Varek?

I honestly don't know anymore.
I'm probably a liberal and have just been in denial about it.
Or something.

365 Mocking Jay  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:36:38pm

Spend less than a day watching the History Channel and at some time you'll have been told what that symbol means.

366 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:37:12pm

re: #365 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Spend less than a day watching the History Channel and at some time you'll have been told what that symbol means.

The Hitler/Ancient Alien channel.

367 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:39:55pm

re: #366 Varek Raith

The Hitler/Ancient Alien channel.

Back in the day, we called it the Hitlery Channel because in the first couple of years they only showed WWII or Wings. Wish they still showed Wings twice a day, it'd make it worth the money for cable... ;)

368 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:41:14pm

re: #364 Varek Raith

I honestly don't know anymore.
I'm probably a liberal and have just been in denial about it.
Or something.

Wonder if there's a support group out there for that, perhaps called Liberals In Denial or LID.

/

369 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:42:32pm

re: #364 Varek Raith

I honestly don't know anymore.
I'm probably a liberal and have just been in denial about it.
Or something.

Traditional values can run in a left and/or a right track, definitely.

370 Mocking Jay  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:50:00pm

re: #364 Varek Raith

I honestly don't know anymore.
I'm probably a liberal and have just been in denial about it.
Or something.

Nah, you're not a liberal. The window has just moved so far right that it only ffeels that way.

371 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:53:22pm

re: #370 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Yes! Varek, espouse a well articulated new view from the right, and you will be Bill Buckley the 4th. Seriously, they need the help. There has to be a way forward for the right that's not crazy.

372 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:57:00pm

We need an kinetic orbital weapon.
Rods from God as they are known.

:)

373 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:57:28pm

re: #370 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Nah, you're not a liberal. The window has just moved so far right that it only ffeels that way.

Think it has more to do with the slow progression of this country to the left, as older generations have died out and younger ones moderated their beliefs in the face of younger generations looking for change. From one poll to another, ideas that once were "outrageous," like gay marriage or socialized health care, are gaining wide acceptance. If it seems like the old hatreds and old bigotries are still as loud as ever, it's because those folks who previously couldn't find acceptance outside their own small groups have now got the Internet connecting them to like-minded assholes across the globe.

374 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 9:58:32pm

re: #364 Varek Raith

I honestly don't know anymore.
I'm probably a liberal and have just been in denial about it.
Or something.

There is no right/left. No conservative/liberal. No right/wrong.

There is only power and weakness. Conviction and cowardice.
And you call yourself Sith? Pathetic.
/

375 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:00:05pm

What's to the right? I happen to think that people should be able to be a Republican for example and still support a woman's right to choose and gay marriage. But then that same person can be rather hawkish and a fiscal conservative (as they say) but also an strong environmentalist while listening to old Bob Dylan songs. I consider myself very liberal on social issues but also don't think that the government is the answer to everything. Etc.

376 Mocking Jay  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:01:12pm

The more I think about it, the more it defies belief that not one person in that unit knew what that symbol stood for.

377 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:01:49pm

Like being a Rockefeller Republican. Or being a Tip O'Neil Democrat. But the problem here is that in the USA we've cornered ourselves into a binary political sphere. We "have to choose" between being either to the right or to the left it seems. That's why so many people have become independents because they don't want either part of it.

378 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:02:23pm

re: #374 Slumbering Behemoth

There is no right/left. No conservative/liberal. No right/wrong.

There is only power and weakness. Conviction and cowardice.
And you call yourself Sith? Pathetic.
/

Image: 104.jpg

379 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:03:08pm

And I don't wish Cal Thomas was never born.

380 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:03:11pm

re: #378 Varek Raith

Indeed.

381 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:03:59pm

re: #375 Gus

What's to the right? I happen to think that people should be able to be a Republican for example and still support a woman's right to choose and gay marriage. But then that same person can be rather hawkish and a fiscal conservative (as they say) but also an strong environmentalist while listening to old Bob Dylan songs. I consider myself very liberal on social issues but also don't think that the government is the answer to everything. Etc.

I used to be of the same mind, that I could support the GOP and still disagree on social issues. But then realized that the GOP doesn't even really do more than pay lip-service to the things I supported, such as fiscal conservatism, which to them means gutting social programs while leaving tax breaks for the wealthy and outrageously large defense spending programs intact.

It was then I realized that, to paraphrase Reagan, I had not left the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.

382 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:06:05pm

I just cut and pasted all three emblems for a side-by-side comparison: the Marine photo, the SS emblem and, for the hell of it, the KISS emblem.

On the KISS emblem, while the S's are similar in design, the bottom parts of the S's are considerably longer than the other two.

The other two are close enough to being dead ringers.

Maybe some or most of the Marines didn't know what that SS means, but it doesn't pass the smell test that *none* of them know what it means.

383 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:07:36pm

re: #381 Targetpractice

I used to be of the same mind, that I could support the GOP and still disagree on social issues. But then realized that the GOP doesn't even really do more than pay lip-service to the things I supported, such as fiscal conservatism, which to them means gutting social programs while leaving tax breaks for the wealthy and outrageously large defense spending programs intact.

It was then I realized that, to paraphrase Reagan, I had not left the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me.

I used to go to Breitbart TV almost weekly back in the day. During that time there was a lot of things I'd agree with from the right side of things. But then I found myself surrounded by a lot of angry and hateful people. So I was for the war on terror and the Iraq War. And as I've said before, while I "signed up for that" I didn't sign up for the whole ball of wax. But the anger and hatred was just too much to bear. Sure, go get the freaking terrorists. Send in the Super Hornets and JDAMs. But don't start freaking out about atheists and lesbians. But that's what would always be around me. I couldn't stand it sometimes.

384 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:08:07pm

re: #378 Varek Raith

I have a conviction in my "liberal woman rights" philosophy..."I may be but small..." to quote Jane Eyre.

385 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:10:27pm

re: #382 BongCrodny

I just cut and pasted all three emblems for a side-by-side comparison: the Marine photo, the SS emblem and, for the hell of it, the KISS emblem.

On the KISS emblem, while the S's are similar in design, the bottom parts of the S's are considerably longer than the other two.

The other two are close enough to being dead ringers.

Maybe some or most of the Marines didn't know what that SS means, but it doesn't pass the smell test that *none* of them know what it means.

I don't for a second believe that, out of the 10 men pictured, not one recognized the SS emblem. Pretty much every American, from birth, is bombarded with images of WWII in our never-ending celebration of our one moment of unquestionable glory in the last century. If you watch a movie, watch TV, read a book, or play a video game, you've heard of the SS at least once. That all 10 of these men were completely ignorant as to what the symbol was is impossible.

386 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:14:53pm

re: #381 Targetpractice

As far as it goes, sure. However it's never been that simple. I'm on the left side of the Dems as far as economic policy is concerned. I die laughing at Obama being called socialist because I am socialist. He isn't even in the same hemisphere... :eek:

That said, I'm rather hawkish, am a gun nut and am a terribly traditional trinitarian (though universalist) Christian (well, I did tell our priest that I am a radical theologically & a reactionary liturgically and that's probably the best way to describe it ;)

On the gripping hand, I support the UN (it's better than the League was & sometimes helps), and am pretty flaming liberal on social issues (support gay marriage if they want to, end the drug war, increase the living fuck out of spending on education, etc)

And so it goes.

387 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:17:38pm

re: #383 Gus

Thar be plenty of left leaning folk that see the "War on Terror" as more than just a dog-whistle for xenophobic gomers. Some that see there really is a fundamentalist religious cult out there that seeks the destruction of our secular society.

In our own corner of this worldly swamp, most like to pretend that this kind of liberal does not exist.

388 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:19:21pm

re: #386 William Barnett-Lewis

As far as it goes, sure. However it's never been that simple. I'm on the left side of the Dems as far as economic policy is concerned. I die laughing at Obama being called socialist because I am socialist. He isn't even in the same hemisphere... :eek:

That said, I'm rather hawkish, am a gun nut and am a terribly traditional trinitarian (though universalist) Christian (well, I did tell our priest that I am a radical theologically & a reactionary liturgically and that's probably the best way to describe it ;)

On the gripping hand, I support the UN (it's better than the League was & sometimes helps), and am pretty flaming liberal on social issues (support gay marriage if they want to, end the drug war, increase the living fuck out of spending on education, etc)

And so it goes.

Agreed totally. Which is why I think Gus is right, that so many are become independents because they're tired of being pigeon-holed as one or the other. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are finding that they need to play to the center more and more to win elections, trying to win the independent vote rather than rely strictly on the dwindling bases of their own parties.

389 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:20:05pm

re: #361 William Barnett-Lewis

I expect better from you than that. Unless you forgot the /// ?

Nope, I just think it's a mistake to judge the average person's level of symbolic awareness based on my own, or that of the average LGF poster. That somebody in that photo knew exactly what the SS signified is quite likely, that they all did is not something I think it's wise to state with any sense of certainty.

390 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:27:04pm

re: #389 goddamnedfrank

Nope, I just think it's a mistake to judge the average person's level of symbolic awareness based on my own, or that of the average LGF poster. That somebody in that photo knew exactly what the SS signified is quite likely, that they all did is not something I think it's wise to state with any sense of certainty.

Any man in that picture who knew what the emblem really was and still posed for it, at the very least, should be busted out of the Corps.

391 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:27:14pm

re: #389 goddamnedfrank

Nope, I just think it's a mistake to judge the average person's level of symbolic awareness based on my own, or that of the average LGF poster. That somebody in that photo knew exactly what the SS signified is quite likely, that they all did is not something I think it's wise to state with any sense of certainty.

Given the saturation of "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers" or "Kelly's Heros" or " Dirty Dozen" or a gazillion other Hollywood movies and TV shows, I can't accept that. Those shit birds knew what they were doing. I have no doubt they each found different ways to "justify" it or "excuse" it. But the reality is that I can not imagine even 2 in 10 not knowing that the pair of lightning bolt s shapes means one thing and that that thing is pure, unadulterated, evil.

392 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:32:14pm

re: #391 William Barnett-Lewis

Given the saturation of "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers" or "Kelly's Heros" or " Dirty Dozen" or a gazillion other Hollywood movies and TV shows, I can't accept that. Those shit birds knew what they were doing. I have no doubt they each found different ways to "justify" it or "excuse" it. But the reality is that I can not imagine even 2 in 10 not knowing that the pair of lightning bolt s shapes means one thing and that that thing is pure, unadulterated, evil.

Did they order that flag or did someone bring it with them? Odds are it was someone in the unit the knew very well what it stood for and brought it with them. Equally odd is that the rest of those boneheads didn't give it a thought and posed in front of the SS flag. If I was there I would have said "what are you guys fucking nuts?" But then again I think about Jay Leno's "Man on the Street" interviews. Could they be that clueless? Or was it one Nazi freak in the unit amongst a majority of clueless jar heads?

393 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:32:16pm

re: #387 Slumbering Behemoth

As a left leaning folk, I see the war on Terror being won by a President who is willing to Drone any foreign threat into the grave. Do not fuck with us. He can keep up the due diligence for the next five years. I do not trust that Mitt or Newt know what the hell is going on. At all.

394 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:36:20pm

re: #325 Varek Raith

DERP

Whatever that tweet was, clicking on the link you posted froze my PC up but good.

395 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:37:29pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

Whatever that tweet was, clicking on the link you posted froze my PC up but good.

Refresh this page and see it in its full glory:

396 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:38:15pm

Or just go here.

397 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:39:17pm

re: #392 Gus

Where are the officers and NCO's in that version? Asleep? For that picture of the whole platoon to be taken is a failure of every NCO and officer in that company.

There is little here that is new - the army and the corps has been dealing with disciplinary problems like this for over 200 years. They need to be given the boot not have excuses made for them.

398 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:39:29pm

re: #396 Gus

Or just go here.

How'd you embed that tweet?

399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:40:29pm

re: #389 goddamnedfrank

On that stream, I did grumble about the use of the Fasces in this clip.

400 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:40:51pm

re: #398 Varek Raith

How'd you embed that tweet?

It's when you go to "details" and then there's a "embed this Tweet" link there. I think everyone got the new Twitter today. Not sure though. I just did.

401 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:41:13pm

Just got my first Santorum ad on this site.

The three wins must have really loosened some pursestrings!

402 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:41:45pm

re: #400 Gus

It's when you go to "details" and then there's a "embed this Tweet" link there. I think everyone got the new Twitter today. Not sure though. I just did.

Shiny.

403 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:43:13pm

re: #397 William Barnett-Lewis

Where are the officers and NCO's in that version? Asleep? For that picture of the whole platoon to be taken is a failure of every NCO and officer in that company.

There is little here that is new - the army and the corps has been dealing with disciplinary problems like this for over 200 years. They need to be given the boot not have excuses made for them.

Yeah. I thought about that too. But it's already been dealt with and it's not exactly in my hands. You can't effect a result with something you have no authority over.

404 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:43:47pm

re: #391 William Barnett-Lewis

Given the saturation of "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers" or "Kelly's Heros" or " Dirty Dozen" or a gazillion other Hollywood movies and TV shows, I can't accept that. Those shit birds knew what they were doing. I have no doubt they each found different ways to "justify" it or "excuse" it. But the reality is that I can not imagine even 2 in 10 not knowing that the pair of lightning bolt s shapes means one thing and that that thing is pure, unadulterated, evil.

You might think that, but you'd be wrong. The level of historical ignorance in America is just stunning. Part of the reason I started hanging out here at LGF is that this was (and still is) one of the few places I can sometimes discuss military history with others who are on my knowledge level.

These days, I'd say only about three in ten even know the SS used those Sigrunen as their symbol.

405 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:46:01pm

re: #399 Slumbering Behemoth

On that stream, I did grumble about the use of the Fasces in this clip.

The fasces is part of VAW 116's unit insignia.

406 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:46:26pm

re: #404 Dark_Falcon

You might think that, but you'd be wrong. The level of historical ignorance in America is just stunning. Part of the reason I started hanging out here at LGF is that this was (and still is) one of the few places I can sometimes discuss military history with others who are on my knowledge level.

These days, I'd say only about three in ten even know the SS used those Sigrunen as their symbol.

There's 10 guys in the photo. So at least one of them knew, most likely the guy who supplied it. What excuse he made to the others, I've no clue, but I doubt they're gonna cover for his ass.

407 Kragar  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:49:22pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

The fasces is part of VAW 116's unit insignia.

The fasces has a long historical context stretching centuries before the Italian fascist movement.

408 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:52:59pm

re: #407 Kragar

The fasces has a long historical context stretching centuries before the Italian fascist movement.

As does the swastika. Pardon my aversion.

409 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:53:29pm

re: #407 Kragar

The fasces has a long historical context stretching centuries before the Italian fascist movement.

Indeed, the old 'Mercury dimes' made in the US up through WWII has the fasces on their reverse side.

410 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:54:54pm

re: #404 Dark_Falcon

You may be right. But for my wife's uncle Oliver's sake I have to fight that.

Oliver was an older boy in the family. Married and had kids but joined up anyway. So this Alabama boy was in the Army. And sent to Europe, getting there in the Infantry under Patton. Coldest winter in ages and no proper cold weather uniforms (we'd be done before Christmass!).

At one point during the Bulge, he and his squad hid in a ditch with snow thrown up over themselves for camo as the SS marched by. He could have touched their hobnail boots had he wanted to die.

On the other hand was the young room mate I had in Illeshiem FRG back in 1983 who could make every excuse for the Waffen SS imaginable. I had my own lack of knowledge then - even though his excuses disturbed me at soul level I didn't have the facts at my disposal to teach him otherwise. In that I am grateful for the the internet.

Our system depends on education and a knowledge of history. I hope we can continue to teach our way forward.

411 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:55:01pm

From Wordpress, circa 2009:

Matonoha wearing the emblem of the 9th SS panzer division

Two commanders of the Czech rapid reaction brigade had Nazi symbols on their helmets during their deployment in Afghanistan, the Prague daily Mlada fronta Dnes (MfD) writes today.

Hynek Matonoha wore the symbol of the 9th SS panzer division Hohenstaufen, Jan Cermak of the SS Dirlewanger brigade, which was one of the most infamous SS combat units of World War Two, the paper writes.

Czech Defence Minister Martin Bartak and chief-of-staff Vlastimil Picek decorated both men on Friday after their return from the Afghan mission, MfD says.

Picek and Bartak may have not known about the commanders’ helmets, MfD notes.

But Czech police serving in Afghanistan reported the case. They confirmed this to the paper, requesting anonymity because they believe that the Czech military wants to keep the case secret…

The single incident that prompted my best friend to get into parachutes reconnaissance – after he lied about his age and enlisted at the start of WW2 – was the massacre of all the men and boys over 16 by the SS in Lidice, Czechoslovakia.

Believe me, there is no one in the Czech Republic who doesn’t know what Nazi symbols mean.

UPDATE:The two commanders have been fired.

If it can happen elsewhere, I don't know why anybody would be surprised that it could happen here.

412 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:55:25pm

re: #399 Slumbering Behemoth

I've wanted to add the song on that video to my MP3, but didn't know the name of the song or band.

Thanks for putting that up, and solving that issue.

413 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 10:55:40pm

re: #407 Kragar

The fasces has a long historical context stretching centuries before the Italian fascist movement.

Exactly, it's a Roman symbol of authority, also signifying justice. It appears frequently, it's an element in a bunch of military police badges and the seal of the US Senate.

414 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:01:53pm

re: #413 goddamnedfrank

Exactly, it's a Roman symbol of authority, also signifying justice. It appears frequently, it's an element in a bunch of military police badges and the seal of the US Senate.

And just as the swastika once meant much else, it too has been destroyed as a symbol. It is, now, pure and simple, a symbol of the fascist destruction of freedom. It is tied, deeply, into the symbolism of Italian Fascism. I am unable to see it and think of the Roman Republic - I only think of Benito Mussolini.

415 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:02:00pm

re: #413 goddamnedfrank

Speaking of symbols...

Sacred Cod of Massachusetts

Massachusetts is a special state.

416 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:02:24pm

Well. You deal with a problem. That doesn't mean you have to make a federal case out of it. They made a mistake and take the necessary action. Doesn't mean we have to destroy people's lives over it.

417 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:04:23pm

All rods for the axe. All people for the State.

Simplistic enough, but the root of all fascism.

418 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:07:58pm

re: #343 goddamnedfrank

Good for you. Not everyone is as aware of these things as you are.

That's why Google exists. There's no excuse for not checking first to see what, if any symbolism something has before you use it.

419 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:08:58pm

I mean. How can we talk about being against the drug war and then turn around and endorse the destruction of men's lives for being stupid once in a while.

Stupid Marine unit poses in front of SS flag... I want blood! We should put them in prison for 18 years and confiscate their property! All those that do not adhere to a standard of perfection even in ignorance shall be destroyed!

But I believe in peace. Right. Sorry. But I think "ignorance of the law" is a valid excuse. Look at it this way. This is teaching moment for the young Marines. Not only in this unit but for the rest of the young Marines that might be clueless to the symbolism. Teach them.

420 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:11:44pm

re: #418 Lidane

That's why Google exists.

Also, Wikipedia:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

421 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:15:04pm

re: #420 Lidane

Also, Wikipedia:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

We should probably work on the internet connectivity for the soldiers in Afghanistan then. Which isn't very good. Bad enough getting WiFi in Denver. I imagine it's pretty bad in Afghanistan. No?

422 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:19:24pm

Time to let go for the night.

Till tomorrow, Amen.

423 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:20:01pm

re: #421 Gus

We should probably work on the internet connectivity for the soldiers in Afghanistan then. Which isn't very good. Bad enough getting WiFi in Denver. I imagine it's pretty bad in Afghanistan. No?

I just find it hard to believe that anyone in the military wouldn't know what an SS stylized that way could possibly symbolize.

Yeah, they're in Afghanistan. Yeah, the internet might suck from time to time. But NO ONE thought that maybe that was a bad idea? No one knew what that flag might be interpreted as? Come on. I don't buy that for a second.

424 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:21:00pm

Not much we can do now anyway. The USMC already dealt with the problem. Otherwise the only other solution I see is education. An advanced concept for Americans I know. But what do we expect though really? The mass media ignored Peter Brimelow at CPAC today. People were watching the Super Bowl while civilians were being slaughtered in Syria and then the next day they were all talking about how old Madonna is and how M.I.A. flipped the bird -- which stands for fuck you -- towards the camera.

425 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:21:59pm

re: #423 Lidane

I just find it hard to believe that anyone in the military wouldn't know what an SS stylized that way could possibly symbolize.

Yeah, they're in Afghanistan. Yeah, the internet might suck from time to time. But NO ONE thought that maybe that was a bad idea? No one knew what that flag might be interpreted as? Come on. I don't buy that for a second.

So should we execute them? Or put them in prison for 18 years.

426 Lidane  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:24:27pm

re: #425 Gus

So should we execute them? Or put them in prison for 18 years.

Nothing even close to that. I'm sure the military has their rules for something like this. I'd defer to them for the answer.

I just think it's poor taste and that it reflects poorly because it's an easy image to use against the military.

427 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:25:29pm

It's already been reported that they dealt with these Marines. Everything else on our part is pure conjecture. We should probably move on. It was wrong in that there's no doubt. But getting stuck there is poor form and unhealthy. The people of Homs are still dying.

428 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:26:59pm

re: #426 Lidane

Nothing even close to that. I'm sure the military has their rules for something like this. I'd defer to them for the answer.

I just think it's poor taste and that it reflects poorly because it's an easy image to use against the military.

It's too late though. The damage has been done and there's nothing we can do about it. It does reflect poorly. More than that. But what else can we do?

429 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:28:58pm

SNAFU

430 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:31:50pm

Is it their fault? Or is it the fault of the politicians and generals that put these boys in harms way? Who is the authority here? Especially in a military hierarchy. Where was the commander in this situation? Where was the 2nd Lt at the very least?

431 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:36:47pm

And why is it that only enlisted men (and some women) are facing such harsh judgement? So after all this time the only people that have been penalized for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are anyone but the officers and politicians? I ask these questions. The flag event is still wrong. It was stupid and ignorant. But the greatest viloators of these wars reamain the politicians and the generals. Not the enlisted men. Enough of this Biblical bullshit. If you want to hang anyone for what's going on here don't look at these idiot Marines. Look at your politicians and commanders.

432 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:39:28pm

I don't expect an answer or response since this questions a hierarchy.

433 Gus  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:47:37pm

I'm simply asking who controls these men? There is a chain of command. Or at least there should be a chain of command. Where are the fucking officers? Why is it always a rogue unit that seemingly acts without any command structure? This even happened in Abu Ghraib. Where is the accountabilty outside of blaming "the labor" or in this case the enlisted men?

434 DobermanBoston  Thu, Feb 9, 2012 11:48:36pm

Townhall's comments section is now rife with people who are into Odinism and racialist texts likes The Bell Curve. Sure, there have always been bigots in both parties. What's different now is that people who have bought into the whole "racially aware" way of life are finding a warm welcome in GOP circles.

435 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:03:46am

But I understand the logic here tonight. You're protecting your own kind. The college graduates. Management. The irony is not lost upon me.

436 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:04:54am

philthethrill is the bets on twitter

You know, maybe it's just the bourbon talking but *smashes everything in my room and runs naked from the house*

437 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:15:23am

Some of my best work has 0 dings.

438 The Left  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:25:24am

re: #437 Gus

Some of my best work has 0 dings.

Not anymore!

How is everyone? Jimmah and I are waiting for some guys to show up to redo our flooring in the kitchen.

439 The Left  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:30:11am

I killed the thread. :(

440 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:30:28am

re: #342 Varek Raith

No.
I won't accept that excuse.
I've known what that symbol has meant since I was about 10 and would under no circumstances ever use it.
Ever.

Maybe as a logo for a heavy metal pop glam band...

But this is seriously bad PR for the US Armed Forces.

And I don't wanna hear this exceptionalist attitude about how we are so badassed that we don't need to give a f*ck about offending any foreigners or liberals: we are endangering the lives of the people we are sending out to do their duty, or at least making their already-difficult task a bit more difficult.

And that is bullSShit.

441 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:46:22am

re: #423 Lidane

I just find it hard to believe that anyone in the military wouldn't know what an SS stylized that way could possibly symbolize.

Yeah, they're in Afghanistan. Yeah, the internet might suck from time to time. But NO ONE thought that maybe that was a bad idea? No one knew what that flag might be interpreted as? Come on. I don't buy that for a second.

My read is that it's dumb bros who just thought it was gnarly and didn't give a shit about whether it was offensive or not, they're simply not self aware enough to care

442 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:47:39am

re: #341 goddamnedfrank

They're Scout Snipers. It's plausible they just borrowed the SS logo because they thought it looked cool, and either weren't aware of the connotations or simply didn't realize the grave weight it carried. Anyway it's not clear that collective guilt applies to all of them, this was likely the idea of one or two people in charge of the unit, with the rest simply along for the esprit de corps.

I pretty much agree with this

443 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:54:07am

re: #441 windupbird is in the gravity well

That is the American Exceptionalist attitude in a nutshell: It is considered a sign of weakness to even care what the rest of the world thinks of us...

It does not mean that we are running a popularity contest, but PR like that (or videos of marines pissing on corpses) is the sort of thing that could have repercussions for their fellow servicepeople, and these yahoos seem to be too cocky and dumb to recognize that.

444 Aye Pod  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:55:31am

re: #391 William Barnett-Lewis

Given the saturation of "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers" or "Kelly's Heros" or " Dirty Dozen" or a gazillion other Hollywood movies and TV shows, I can't accept that. Those shit birds knew what they were doing. I have no doubt they each found different ways to "justify" it or "excuse" it. But the reality is that I can not imagine even 2 in 10 not knowing that the pair of lightning bolt s shapes means one thing and that that thing is pure, unadulterated, evil.

Yep. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who didn't know that symbol's use by the nazis - even among people with no interest whatsoever in military matters. Among soldiers, who we must credit with at least a passing interest in these things, that must fall to about zero.

Not saying that these soldiers were necessarily nazis, but at the very least they were being extremely stupid (as opposed to ignorant).

445 freetoken  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 12:57:01am
MP3 Audio
446 Aye Pod  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:00:45am

re: #441 windupbird is in the gravity well

My read is that it's dumb bros who just thought it was gnarly and didn't give a shit about whether it was offensive or not, they're simply not self aware enough to care

Yeah I think that's the most likely explanation too - they thought they were being badass in an 'edgy' way or something. Needs more training!

Youtube Video
447 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:05:40am

re: #446 Jimmah

Thing is, these same guys are given a lecture on what tattoos they're absolutely not allowed to get, and the SS double lightning bolts is one of them.

So, failure to pay attention, there.

448 Aye Pod  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:08:37am

re: #447 Obdicut

Thing is, these same guys are given a lecture on what tattoos they're absolutely not allowed to get, and the SS double lightning bolts is one of them.

So, failure to pay attention, there.

I didn't know that - well spotted.

449 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:09:21am

In the current atmosphere, a story like this follows a similar arc:

People point out what a stupid thing it is.

Wingnuts counter with "How dare you imply our brave soldiers are Nazis!"

People point out it is bad PR for US and makes the task harder for our servicepeople.

An ex-serviceman politician voices his support and says he'd do it himself if he were still there.

Obama fails to intervene personally, which is touted as a lack of leadership.

450 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:14:11am

re: #448 Jimmah

I didn't know that - well spotted.

It is possible they were all goofing off simultaneously during that lecture, and never otherwise encountered the symbol. But it's not probable.

That they've apparently been doing this for awhile means I'm much more interested in their officers than the men. We've gotten into a habit of pillorying the soldiers instead of assigning blame up the chain of command. We should.

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:28:55am

What these marines did is at best childish. And when you send childish adults into war zones, bad things usually happen.

452 researchok  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:30:03am

Morning, all

453 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:30:47am

re: #451 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

What these marines did is at best childish. And when you send childish adults into war zones, bad things usually happen.

Then the responsibility lies on the officers who were sending children in to do the job of an adult.

Officers can be held responsible for the behavior of those under them to an extent - at least to the extent that they should not allow conditions for such things to occur.

454 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:33:01am

re: #453 ralphieboy

Yes.

BTW, when I click on "+" now I see some triangle highlighting, is it only me, or is that some new feature?

455 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 1:33:51am

re: #433 Gus

I'm simply asking who controls these men? There is a chain of command. Or at least there should be a chain of command. Where are the fucking officers? Why is it always a rogue unit that seemingly acts without any command structure? This even happened in Abu Ghraib. Where is the accountabilty outside of blaming "the labor" or in this case the enlisted men?

re: #435 Gus

But I understand the logic here tonight. You're protecting your own kind. The college graduates. Management. The irony is not lost upon me.

Oh, BS, Gus. I respect you, but whether they put it in their posts or not, I'd wager that most here that are criticizing those Marines for that act of (at the very least) tone-deaf stupidity and utter lack of historical irony also place the most blame where it belongs: their NCOs and COs. The fact that this happened at all shows that more than a couple of people up the chain weren't paying fucking attention and nipping shit like this in the bud; organizational rot starts at the top.

If anyone's heads should have rolled over this, it should have been their NCOs and COs, but we're not exactly privy to all of that.

456 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 2:11:28am

re: #344 Killgore Trout

You are implying that you think that American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?

It's an interesting way to ask a question, KT. Such sweet ambiguity.

"You are implying that you think that all American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?"

"You are implying that you think that some American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?"

One of those statements is not like the other, and each merits a different response, no?

*sigh*

457 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 2:15:12am

re: #332 Killgore Trout

Moar Derp from dkos: Amerikan soldiers are Nazis or something because Orrin Hatch and ChristoSuprecism...
Open Thread for Night Owls: 'SS' gets a proud display by a few Marine snipers

Oh, and KT. The only derp in this case is from you. Quite usual lately. I challenge anyone to read that DKos piece and find equation of all American soldiers to Nazis.

458 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 2:16:28am

re: #456 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

It's an interesting way to ask a question, KT. Such sweet ambiguity.


Now just try and overtun that ironclad syllogism.

"You are implying that you think that all American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?"

"You are implying that you think that some American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?"

One of those statements is not like the other, and merits a different response, no?

*sigh*

There is room for more wingnut-spin logic here:

SS were anti-Semitic

Islamists are anti-Semitic

therefore: OUR MARINE SNIPERS ARE TERRORIST SYMPATHIZERS!!!

459 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 2:19:15am

re: #458 ralphieboy

There isn't actually any logic to wingnut-spin. All you have to do is find the keywords. Do you find an "American" "soldier" under liberal attack? Don't look at details, don't read the arguments, don't think further. Just FIRE!

460 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 2:47:03am

First you toss a "Why do hate America/our brave soldiers?" stink bomb and then run with it from there...

461 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 2:49:05am

re: #460 ralphieboy

First you toss a "Why do hate America/our brave soldiers?" stink bomb and then run with it from there...

That's how it works. "How dare you?!?!"

462 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:01:32am

re: #419 Gus

I mean. How can we talk about being against the drug war and then turn around and endorse the destruction of men's lives for being stupid once in a while.

Stupid Marine unit poses in front of SS flag... I want blood! We should put them in prison for 18 years and confiscate their property! All those that do not adhere to a standard of perfection even in ignorance shall be destroyed!

But I believe in peace. Right. Sorry. But I think "ignorance of the law" is a valid excuse. Look at it this way. This is teaching moment for the young Marines. Not only in this unit but for the rest of the young Marines that might be clueless to the symbolism. Teach them.

Oh, certainly. If that was indeed a clueless mistake. If, however, there are true neo-Nazis involved (which is not far off, since there have been reports of American neo-Nazis recruiting for wars to kill non-whites), they obviously present a danger to the local population. Which is why each such incident should be investigated very thoroughly.

463 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:01:46am

Good line from Mother Jones's Adam Weinstein on the subject:

"The symbolic appropriation may indeed be unwitting, but witlessness is no more desirable a trait in downrange warriors than malice is."

464 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:08:50am

Early Morning to everyone!

I know that the "Religious Freedom" argument for the contraception mandate is backwards logic. The Church and other religions do not dictate to our government. Somehow, I can't figure out a convincing argument to counter the Fox News Prions that have infected otherwise reasonable people I know.

Any ideas?

How is everyone?

465 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:12:51am

re: #462 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Here's the Southern Poverty Law Center's article from a couple years back on white supremacists joining the military.

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

With quite scary bits like:

The FBI report details more than a dozen investigative findings and criminal cases involving Iraq and Afghanistan veterans as well as active-duty personnel engaging in extremist activity in recent years. For example, in September 2006, the leader of the Celtic Knights, a central Texas splinter faction of the Hammerskins, a national racist skinhead organization, planned to obtain firearms and explosives from an active duty Army soldier in Fort Hood, Texas. That soldier, who served in Iraq in 2006 and 2007, was a member of the National Alliance, a neo-Nazi group.

466 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:14:56am

re: #464 ggt

There isn't even an argument. There is no dictate towards the catholic church, only to businesses that they run. If a religion wants to run a business it has to abide by the rules that we have for businesses. Otherwise, someone could say that their religion allows them to hire only white people, their religion allows them to not pay overtime hours, etc.

467 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:15:56am

And also:


The Army is currently investigating war crimes allegations leveled against Iraq combat veteran and active-duty Army soldier Kenneth Eastridge, 24, who in November was sentenced to 10 years in prison for the December 2007 murder of a fellow serviceman. After Eastridge was arrested for that killing, National Public Radio publicized his MySpace page, which showed Eastridge displaying a tattoo of SS lightning bolts, a common neo-Nazi insignia.

468 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:16:34am

re: #466 Obdicut

There isn't even an argument. There is no dictate towards the catholic church, only to businesses that they run. If a religion wants to run a business it has to abide by the rules that we have for businesses. Otherwise, someone could say that their religion allows them to hire only white people, their religion allows them to not pay overtime hours, etc.

I thought that the "if you take federal funding, you have to follow federal laws argument" applied, but that didn't get me very far.

Thanks, I'll try that.

469 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:20:50am

re: #468 ggt

Yeah, it doesn't have much to do with funding. And sure, their 'businesses' are usually tax-exempt non-profits, but that doesn't matter. I can't start up a non-profit and violate worker laws, otherwise every health insurance company would do so.

Nobody is forcing any Catholic, ever, to use contraception. Nobody is forcing any Catholic, ever, to buy contraception. They are not being forced to do anything. Health insurance companies are being mandated to provide contraceptives without copays. That is all. It is a good thing-- it will reduce pregnancies, reduce abortions, and reduce the spread of STDs. There is no research at all showing that availability of contraceptives has the single slightest least iota of increased sexual activity, so there isn't a thing about the policy that is in any way coercive or even putting temptation in front of Catholics.

470 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:21:19am

re: #419 Gus

This is teaching moment for the young Marines. Not only in this unit but for the rest of the young Marines that might be clueless to the symbolism. Teach them.

The point here is not to punish, it is to make sure that this kind of SShit does not happen again.

These fellows seem to be unclear on the fact that this sort of PR makes the task a lot harder for their fellow servicepeople trying to do their job overseas.

If you want to show off and be a badass, go work for Blackwater or some other mercenary troop. I've heard the pay is a lot better there.

471 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:23:56am

re: #469 Obdicut

Nobody is forcing any Catholic, ever, to use contraception. Nobody is forcing any Catholic, ever, to buy contraception. They are not being forced to do anything. Health insurance companies are being mandated to provide contraceptives without copays.

When it comes to certain activities, the prevailing attitude of the Catholic Church seems to be "anything not forbidden is compulsory"

But this is turning into a feeding frenzy for those who would argue that a secularist state is launcing an attack on our morals and values.

472 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:23:59am

re: #469 Obdicut

Yeah, it doesn't have much to do with funding. And sure, their 'businesses' are usually tax-exempt non-profits, but that doesn't matter. I can't start up a non-profit and violate worker laws, otherwise every health insurance company would do so.

Nobody is forcing any Catholic, ever, to use contraception. Nobody is forcing any Catholic, ever, to buy contraception. They are not being forced to do anything. Health insurance companies are being mandated to provide contraceptives without copays. That is all. It is a good thing-- it will reduce pregnancies, reduce abortions, and reduce the spread of STDs. There is no research at all showing that availability of contraceptives has the single slightest least iota of increased sexual activity, so there isn't a thing about the policy that is in any way coercive or even putting temptation in front of Catholics.

Ah, but that is not the point. The Church seems (well the Bishops) to have issues with Individuals choosing any aspect of their sexual life. They want control.

473 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:24:49am

re: #472 ggt

Ah, but that is not the point. The Church seems (well the Bishops) to have issues with Individuals choosing any aspect of their sexual life. They want control.

And they can do their utmost to control the sex lives of Catholics, by preaching to them, etc. But there isn't the least bit of reason why the religious beliefs of Catholics should affect the health care available to a non-Catholic.

474 ozbloke  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:24:51am

Secret documents lift lid on WWII mutiny by US troops in north Queensland.

An Australian historian has uncovered hidden documents which reveal that African American troops used machine guns to attack their white officers in a siege on a US base in north Queensland in 1942.

Information about the Townsville mutiny has never been released to the public.

But the story began to come to light when James Cook University's Ray Holyoak first began researching why US congressman Lyndon B Johnson visited Townsville for three days back in 1942.

More at link...

475 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:26:20am

re: #473 Obdicut

And they can do their utmost to control the sex lives of Catholics, by preaching to them, etc. But there isn't the least bit of reason why the religious beliefs of Catholics should affect the health care available to a non-Catholic.

The argument used by the Bishops is BS. It's all about power and control over the indivdual and government.

476 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:28:25am

I really don't get the concept of the "collective soul" the Church seems to employ when it is convenient for them.

I was taught that INDIVIDUALS were judged, not by the actions of other members of any group they might be part of, but by their own actions.

477 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:35:00am

re: #474 ozbloke

that was on Facebook this morning...

Just more proof of what we have coming under Obama's second term: a Mau-Mau uprising in our armed forces!!!

/

478 ozbloke  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:35:53am

re: #477 ralphieboy

that was on Facebook this morning...

Just more proof of what we have coming under Obama's second term: a Mau-mau uprising in our armed forces!!!

/

/ I knew Obama would be behind it!!!

479 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:37:13am

re: #478 ozbloke

/ I knew Obama would be behind it!!!

Is there any evil in this world that he is not part of, from Fascism to Commmunism to secularism to Islamism?

/

480 ozbloke  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:42:25am

re: #479 ralphieboy

Is there any evil in this world that he is not part of, from Fascism to Commmunism to secularism to Islamism?

/

I do find it interesting that the story was able to be kept hidden for over 70 years from the public.

481 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:45:19am

I think I have it.

Compare the Catholic Bishops in America to the Mullahs in Iran.

482 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:45:49am

re: #480 ozbloke

I do find it interesting that the story was able to be kept hidden for over 70 years from the public.

I remember the story of how Lena Horne refused to perform when she learned that German POWs were being seated in front of black GI's, but I never heard of racial tensions erupting in violence.

483 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:50:45am

I am going to try to go back to bed.

Have a great early morning all!

484 ozbloke  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:52:51am

re: #482 ralphieboy

I remember the story of how Lena Horne refused to perform when she learned that German POWs were being seated in front of black GI's, but I never heard of racial tensions erupting in violence.

We here in Stralia have a terrible history of how we treated the indigenous people, and immigrants.
Sometimes I think the best we got to was between the late 60's and the mid 90's, mostly an awareness thing...
I do think we have been sliding backwards again since then.

Oh, I was also confident we wouldn't need wheels by the year 2000.

WHERES MY DAM FLYING CAR!!

485 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:54:08am

re: #484 ozbloke

How can you sleep when your beds are burning?

486 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:54:47am

re: #479 ralphieboy

Is there any evil in this world that he is not part of, from Fascism to Commmunism to secularism to Islamism?

/

We can't link him directly to Disco...Yet.

Also, Good Morning Honcos!

487 ozbloke  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 3:56:34am

re: #485 Keynsian Kenyan

How can you sleep when your beds are burning?

The time has come to say fairs fair.
I might go Occupy my couch...

488 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:06:10am

re: #486 Stupid is as stupid does

We can't link him directly to Disco...Yet.

Also, Good Morning Honcos!

Youtube Video
489 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:08:59am

re: #488 Keynsian Kenyan

[Video]

That's why I said Yet. Dammit!
//

490 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:14:09am

I think the only Evil in the world we cannot link him to is Mormonism...

/

491 A Mom Anon  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:34:28am

re: #481 ggt

Well,there's that but also,we're talking about an FDA approved medication here. I don't have diabetes or heart disease,but I'm sure part of my family's healthcare premiums go into the pool that pays for someone else's medication for those diseases. You're buying insurance honestly in the hope that nothing goes wrong,but if it does,your behind is covered. I don't have auto insurance hoping I have a wreck,or homeowner's insurance hoping my house burns down. The people whining about this seem to have no earthly clue as to how insurance works. Not to mention letting someone get between a woman and her doctor,now where have we heard that nonsense before? It's also a hell of a lot cheaper to cover birth control than to cover a pregnancy,birth,post natal care and the care for that new baby til they're grown. I don't see any bitching about those expenses being part of insurance.

I actually started bawling when I heard about this. I'm about to turn 52,my Mom's generation fought these battles,why the hell are we having to go through this crap in 2012? There are some days where the hate is just overwhelming coming from the right,it's fucking sad.

492 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:38:45am

re: #490 Keynsian Kenyan

I think the only Evil in the world we cannot link him to is Mormonism...

/

Lotta white shirts and dark ties in his wardrobe...

493 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 4:43:02am

re: #492 Decatur Deb

Lotta white shirts and dark ties in his wardrobe...

Given the level of argument used to show that he's Muslim, he could be convicted of being a member of any religion on the planet.

494 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:44:08am

Holy crap a lot has happened while I've been out working.

This Brimelow stuff is nutballs insanity.

495 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:44:19am

Morning Lizardim from the windy and bitterly cold wild north country. It kinda depresses me that this country has made so much progress in the post-Civil Rights Act era, and now it all looks to be undone if the racist, bigoted GOP has their way. Worst of all, to me, is that this same GOP claims to be the party of Christianity. I'm sorry, but nobody who calls himself a Christian should be okay with anything to do with white nationalism. It makes me want to denounce my own religion, or at least its purported political spokespeople.

496 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:49:10am

I'm tired of hearing about sherries fucking berries on the radio, they don't sound very appetizing. Probably cuz I used to work with a skanky girl named Sherry.

497 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:49:17am

re: #344 Killgore Trout

You are implying that you think that American servicemen have Nazi sympathies. Is this correct?

Maybe they read a lot of John Ringo novels?
/

498 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:50:00am

I don't think it's charged rhetoric to say we're moving backwards WRT race or women's rights. It's clear we are, if these backwards miscreants get in power and push legislation.

I'm greatly concerned that Santorum's nutter left screed and this Brimelow stuff won't get covered in the mainstream. Will the DNC hammer the GOP on this in the General? I could only hope.

499 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:51:53am

re: #372 Varek Raith

We need an kinetic orbital weapon.
Rods from God as they are known.

:)

a.k.a. "Thor", but that wouldn't be Christian enough, would it?

500 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:53:38am

Went to put in my boring old oatmeal in the microwave, and lo and behold what did I find?! 3/4 of a tollhouse cookie pie. There goes the diet.
[Link: www.cbs6albany.com...]

501 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:53:39am

re: #496 Tommy

I'm tired of hearing about sherries fucking berries on the radio, they don't sound very appetizing. Probably cuz I used to work with a skanky girl named Sherry.

I am sick of reading about Mom's Weird Trick on HuffPo. You would think that a liberal site like HuffPo would not assume that its readers are so dumb to fall for these stupid scams, but these ads are all over the page at Huff but only appear once on Foxnews.

502 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:55:42am

re: #498 Kronocide

I think there's a lot of guilt and remorse out there, making things even worse. I had a lot of Republican friends who ignored me when I repeatedly told them the GOP was getting more atavistic, more race-based, more Randian. Nowadays, they say they're 'apolitical' or that they only really get involved with politics on a local level. The extremists running for President from the GOP side didn't crash the party, they are they party.

503 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:56:41am

re: #502 Obdicut

I think there's a lot of guilt and remorse out there, making things even worse. I had a lot of Republican friends who ignored me when I repeatedly told them the GOP was getting more atavistic, more race-based, more Randian. Nowadays, they say they're 'apolitical' or that they only really get involved with politics on a local level. The extremists running for President from the GOP side didn't crash the party, they are they party.

Even my hard-core GOP parents are starting to realize this. When I mention that all the GOP Presidential candidates are idiots, I don't get any disagreement.

504 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:57:08am

re: #488 Keynsian Kenyan

Ain't it "Keynesian"?

505 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:01:35am

re: #504 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Ain't it "Keynesian"?

Fixed it.

I remember when Newt Gingrich made some comment about Obama's "Kenyan world view". It was early am, and I nodded in agreement because I thought Newt meant "Keynesian world view", which Obama does have...

Or perhaps Newt had not had enough coffee himself and actually meant to say "Kanyean world view", as in Kanye West.

506 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:02:18am

Are you implying that you have also badmouthed the wife already beaten by you?

507 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:03:36am

re: #505 Keynesian Kenyan

Fixed it.

I remember when Newt Gingrich made some comment about Obama's "Kenyan world view". It was early am, and I nodded in agreement because I thought Newt meant "Keynesian world view", which Obama does have...

Or perhaps Newt had not had enough coffee himself and actually meant to say "Kanyean world view", as in Kanye West.

Yo Newt, I'm happy for ya and Ima let you finish, but Rick Santorum is the best GOP candidate of all time.

508 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:11:57am

re: #502 Obdicut

I think there's a lot of guilt and remorse out there, making things even worse. I had a lot of Republican friends who ignored me when I repeatedly told them the GOP was getting more atavistic, more race-based, more Randian. Nowadays, they say they're 'apolitical' or that they only really get involved with politics on a local level. The extremists running for President from the GOP side didn't crash the party, they are they party.

I can understand a little bit, having voted GOP believing some of the canards. I don't think I was as invested in 'the brand' as many are.

You can hammer someone really hard and they'll just get defensive or shut down on you. But there's hope for them because they are trying to cope. The others that just go to PR mode and regurgitate talking points right back at you don't have much hope.

509 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:12:04am

The "Kenyan world view", of course being a dog-whistel reference to the Mau-Mau uprising and a veiled warning to hide our white women away.

I mean WTF? Kenya was a former British colony that fought for its independence. What is wrong with a Kenyan world view in that sense?

510 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:14:21am

re: #509 Keynesian Kenyan

The "Kenyan world view", of course being a dog-whistel reference to the Mau-Mau uprising and a veiled warning to hide our white women away.

I mean WTF? Kenya was a former British colony that fought for its independence. What is wrong with a Kenyan world view in that sense?

Someone on my Facebook posted a disgraceful picture of a protester holding a sign that read, "My forefathers were Christian. Yours were Kenyan. That says a lot about you."

511 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:15:29am

re: #510 thedopefishlives

Could be a photoshop. Too good to be true.

512 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:15:58am

re: #510 thedopefishlives

Someone on my Facebook posted a disgraceful picture of a protester holding a sign that read, "My forefathers were Christian. Yours were Kenyan. That says a lot about you."

WTF?? That doesn't even make any sense!

513 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:16:03am

re: #511 Al-Qatil min al-Akadhib

Could be a photoshop. Too good to be true.

I know. The comment on the photo was, "I hope this is a Photoshop." It very well could be.

514 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:21:01am

re: #512 Look At My New Grandbaby!

WTF?? That doesn't even make any sense!

It's does if it's a photoshop. The reverse is "it says a lot about the person holding the sign".

515 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:21:24am

Holy crap. I've been looking at building permits given the last half of last year. The recession for the 1% is long gone and I'm going to be a busy boy.

516 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:24:29am

re: #515 Kronocide

Holy crap. I've been looking at building permits given the last half of last year. The recession for the 1% is long gone and I'm going to be a busy boy.

Did the 1% even have a recession?

517 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:24:39am

re: #514 ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

What character set is your latest display name?

518 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:26:38am

re: #517 Look At My New Grandbaby!

What character set is your latest display name?

A spectre is haunting LGF.
(In Soviet Russia* LGF haunt you!)
;)

*- apparently Stalkerland as well.

519 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:28:52am

re: #517 Look At My New Grandbaby!

What character set is your latest display name?

It's a mix, I guess.

520 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:29:02am

re: #518 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A spectre is haunting LGF.
(In Soviet Russia* LGF haunt you!)
;)

*- apparently Stalkerland as well.

I love your new display name. So is the Feline Overlord running the computer now?

521 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:29:03am

re: #511 ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

Could be a photoshop. Too good to be true.

Doubtful. Hand written and complete with Tea Party compliant spelling error.

522 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:29:34am

re: #516 thedopefishlives

Did the 1% even have a recession?

From my small neck of the woods, very much yes. I work in the ultra luxury construction industry and it got hammered hard here. But it's clearly on the mend.

523 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:30:08am

I assume the Stalker Blog has a few moles planted here so they can fill them in on our True Identities.

524 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:30:12am

re: #519 ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

It's a mix, I guess.

Mix of what?

525 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:30:53am

re: #521 goddamnedfrank

Doubtful. Hand written and complete with Tea Party compliant spelling error.

Neither is a sure sign of authenticity and can be easily faked by a profi. Basically, it comes down to provenance. Where it first appeared, etc.

526 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:31:21am

re: #524 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Mix of what?

Of characters from various languages.

527 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:31:50am

White House to Announce ‘Accommodation’ for Religious Organizations on Contraception Rule
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

With the White House under fire for its new rule requiring employers including religious organizations to offer health insurance that fully covers birth control coverage, ABC News has learned that later today the White House — possibly President Obama himself — will likely announce an attempt to accommodate these religious groups.

The move, based on state models, will almost certainly not satisfy bishops and other religious leaders since it will preserve the goal of women employees having their birth control fully covered by health insurance.

Sources say it will be respectful of religious beliefs but will not back off from that goal, which many religious leaders oppose since birth control is in violation of their religious beliefs.

One source familiar with the decision described the accommodation as “Hawaii-plus,” insisting that it’s better than the Hawaii plan — for both sides.

I want my $20

528 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:32:56am

Just up in pages, the Facebook murders. You'll be hearing a lot about this in the days to come. Two guys in Tennessee have been arrested in the murders of a couple who had "defriended" the daughter of one of the suspects. There is a weird twist to this already weird story. The suspect whose daughter was defriended, 60 year old Marvin Potter, was convicted in 2004 of claiming, and wearing, Marine Corps service medals that were not his. Potter had given lectures to school children about his alleged experiences, in uniform and wearing the fake medals. He got probation.

529 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:36:49am

re: #527 RogueOne

White House to Announce ‘Accommodation’ for Religious Organizations on Contraception Rule
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

I want my $20

Ugh. So they'll say some large class of employers don't need to provide it, but individual women will be allowed to, I assume pay out of pocket, for the no copay coverage? I won't stand for that. That defeats the entire point.

Or will it need to be free to women, in which case this won't really solve anything since the organizations complaining about it now will still be paying for it?

Bah. What nonsense.

530 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:41:38am

re: #529 Simply Sarah

It's completely unclear right now. Read one way, it looks like they're handing the Bishops a tissue and pointing out how ridiculous the request is. From another angle, they're shifting the burden onto the women to pay.

What I'm more interested in is how this would set up precedent for my plan to make it against my religion for my employees to earn overtime pay or sue me.

531 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:44:10am

re: #520 thedopefishlives

I love your new display name. So is the Feline Overlord running the computer now?

Just uses the Feline Mind Control to have me type while he reclines in a relaxed position with tuna fish and catnip on hand.

Having the computer on also generates further warmth since he lies to the left of it in the way of the fan exhaust.

532 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:45:15am

re: #530 Obdicut

It's completely unclear right now. Read one way, it looks like they're handing the Bishops a tissue and pointing out how ridiculous the request is. From another angle, they're shifting the burden onto the women to pay.

What I'm more interested in is how this would set up precedent for my plan to make it against my religion for my employees to earn overtime pay or sue me.

Well, overall I can't see how there's any 'compromise' proposal that will make all sides happy (I'm skeptical enough it'll make any side happy).

And yes, I really worry about how far this logic stretches. Should any organization or business that falls under the nebulous heading of 'religiously affiliated' be totally exempt from laws they decide they don't like, all in the name of supposed religious freedom?

533 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:45:31am

re: #129 Slumbering Behemoth

What you missed was subtext.

Or maybe it just missed the stories of them being dragged behind a truck and lashed to a post until death. No beheading or stoning so it must feel real fucking good about itself and its ilk.

534 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:46:08am

re: #529 Simply Sarah

If they're basing it off of Hawaii:

Employees who choose to buy contraception do so at a cost no higher than the pro-rata share of the rate the organization would have paid had they not opted out through the refusal clause. The Hawaiian law stipulates the refusal clause applies to contraceptive purposes, and cannot exclude coverage for non-contraceptive purposes, such as decreasing the risk of ovarian cancer or eliminating symptoms of menopause.

It is a purely accounting move-- which is all the Catholic church's complaint is in the first place.

535 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:48:27am

re: #147 Targetpractice

I'm willing to meet the bishops halfway on this. They can have a big exemption in the law cut out for their hospitals and universities, in exchange, we yank all government grants, loans, and scholarships that go to both. They want federal dollars, but not federal rules.

Representation without taxation! Best of both worlds.

536 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:48:58am

re: #534 Obdicut

If they're basing it off of Hawaii:

It is a purely accounting move-- which is all the Catholic church's complaint is in the first place.

Well, it was their original complaint. However, they've been constantly moving the goalposts on this. I can't see how this will do anything to placate them. If anything, it'll encourage them to double-down since they'll smell blood.

537 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:49:19am
oh I missed the beheadings and the stoning of gays. when is that?

I know the culprit is blocked, but I gotta say this. The US laws do not allow stoning and beheading, so it's useless to ask "if they'e a Christian Taliban, where are these things". The Taliban first establishes a completely new legal framework and THEN stones and beheads.

The Christian Taliban wants to demolish the wall of separation between religion and state. After the wall crumbles, it will be brutal. If anyone thinks this is an exaggeration, look up Lawrence v. Texas - it wasn't so long ago either.

538 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:49:42am

re: #531 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Just uses the Feline Mind Control to have me type while he reclines in a relaxed position with tuna fish and catnip on hand.

Having the computer on also generates further warmth since he lies to the left of it in the way of the fan exhaust.

Wow, your feline overlord is truly spoiled. I only bring the catnip out on special occasions. Of course, since neither of them is terribly fond of tuna fish, that is somewhat less of an issue.

539 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:50:44am
MSNBC Video

Gah. Articles like this should be required to include a side box that explains the concept of marginal utility. Yes the rich pay more taxes as a absolute number, but the marginal utility of those dollars is quite a bit less than the dollars of someone making $30-50K.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics stuff.

540 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:53:45am

Here's an interesting thought: Why don't we implement a progressive capital gains tax? We already have a progressive earned income tax. Apply the same model to capital gains and you can completely eliminate the issue of big investors paying too little, while avoiding jacking up the tax rate on the little investors.

541 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 6:54:22am

re: #539 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

If we were all gentlemen farmers, living indepedently and able to support and feed ourselves on our 40 acres of farmland we carved from the wilderness, then this talk of tax rates in an absolute sense would make a lot of sense.

But we are not. And entrepreneurs also benefit from the education system and the infrastructure to a greater extent than the rest of us.

542 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:06:30am

re: #538 thedopefishlives

Wow, your feline overlord is truly spoiled. I only bring the catnip out on special occasions. Of course, since neither of them is terribly fond of tuna fish, that is somewhat less of an issue.

I grow it on the windowsill so I have it in abundance. He just gets a couple of fresh leaves a day. And I load a baggie of fresh leaves for the cat hospital to use whenever the cats go to the vet.

This cat likes poultry more than tuna, but I think the oil in tuna is good for him. Plus since he like tuna water it's a way to get extra fluids into him since dehydration is definitely an issue now considering his age and decreasing kidney function.

Medicinal experiment today with a mild pain-killer to see if that eases his arthritis discomfort at all. Will use the opportunity to do some necessary combing/grooming as well.

(Your Feline Overlord's a dealer, man!)

544 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:10:57am

re: #542 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

My outdoor feline overlord enjoys the use of the Mrs. Fish's mint garden. When the mint is mature, you can almost always find said cat rolling amongst the plants or munching on the leaves. Yes, it's a happy time to be the outdoor feline overlord.

545 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:12:56am

re: #543 Lidane

Rasmussen Tracking: Obama With A Ten Point Lead Over Romney

Considering the nature of Rasmussen, this could be just Scottie hating on Mitt.

546 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:13:37am

re: #543 Lidane

Rasmussen Tracking: Obama With A Ten Point Lead Over Romney

All the more reason to vote for Santorum. If you are going to lose, than at least have Obama win against someone you support...

Or something.

547 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:15:19am

[Link: www.theroot.com...]

As the saying goes, "Timing is everything." The right has seized on a 10-year-old law to rally voters against President Obama's Affordable Care Act during an election year. The move represents a major contradiction for Republicans who are trying to undo a measure ushered in by their own leadership simply to win votes.

548 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:17:57am

re: #547 ggt

[Link: www.theroot.com...]

Yep. And the White House and the media have done a terrible job explaining (Well, ignoring) the fact that the requirement for coverage isn't new, but rather all that is changing is that it needs to be provided without a copay..

549 darthstar  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:20:15am

re: #546 Keynesian Kenyan

All the more reason to vote for Santorum. If you are going to lose, than at least have Obama win against someone you support...

Or something.

The Republicans are running against Obama. So far, none of them appear to be running FOR anything...even down-ticket races are about Obama. If this continues through November, we could see a huge swing toward the Democrats in both houses. Someone needs to tell the GOP they're doing great and not to change a thing.

550 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:25:09am

re: #549 darthstar

The Republicans are running against Obama. So far, none of them appear to be running FOR anything...even down-ticket races are about Obama. If this continues through November, we could see a huge swing toward the Democrats in both houses. Someone needs to tell the GOP they're doing great and not to change a thing.

Oh, I think they've figured that part out on their own. You could tell them they're on a collision course with disaster and they'd just laugh and say, "Yeah, that disaster is Obama!"

551 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:31:06am

There I was rambling and babbling away again. Blah, blah, blah, etc. I talk -- or is that type -- too much sometimes when I should be sleeping. Someone should shoot me with a tranquilizer dart when I get that way.

552 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:32:13am

re: #551 Gus

Hey, buddy. Better to talk it out than keep it ;)

553 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:33:49am

re: #552 ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

Hey, buddy. Better to talk it out than keep it ;)

Probably so. Maybe I'm being more paranoid about my babbling then I should be?

No!

//

554 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:35:37am

re: #551 Gus

There's a great Mitchell and Webb episode with a dude simply chloroforming the boring people at a dinner party.

555 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:36:20am

re: #550 thedopefishlives

Oh, I think they've figured that part out on their own. You could tell them they're on a collision course with disaster and they'd just laugh and say, "Yeah, that disaster is Obama!"

I still remember when Karly Rove tried to stand up against the Tea Party nominees and got smacked down and had to walk it back.

It is too late. As someone pointed out here, if Romney wins the nomination and loses the general election, the excuse will be "he wasn#t conservative enough!" and be back in foce in 2016.

If Santorum gets the nod and loses they will have no such excuse other than the nation has been so corrupted by Obama's culture of entitlement that we can no longer choose the best candidate.

556 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:36:29am

re: #554 Obdicut

There's a great Mitchell and Webb episode with a dude simply chloroforming the boring people at a dinner party.

There's another option. Or ether.

//

557 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:36:33am

re: #553 Gus

Hey. Some twitter style never hurt anyone.

558 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:37:17am

re: #557 ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

Hey. Some twitter style never hurt anyone.

True. #chloroforming

559 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:44:33am

'Anonymous' hacker group threatens 'reign of terror' against Israel

“Through the use of media deception and political bribery, you have amassed the sympathies of many. You claim to be democratic, yet in reality this is far from the truth. In fact, your only goal is to better the lives of a select few while carelessly trampling the liberties of the masses,” says the clip's computer-generated narrator over ominous background music.

The video also makes reference to the possibility of an Israeli strike on Iran, claiming that Israel has “taken steps to ensure a nuclear holocaust,” and that it will not be allowed “to attack a sovereign country based upon a campaign of lies.”

560 bratwurst  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:51:24am

Santorum rousing the CPAC troops with praise for "fracking". If he really believes the Almighty would NEVER allow man-made global warming, shouldn't the same also make it a bit easier to get at all that lovely gas?

561 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:52:22am

re: #544 thedopefishlives

My outdoor feline overlord enjoys the use of the Mrs. Fish's mint garden. When the mint is mature, you can almost always find said cat rolling amongst the plants or munching on the leaves. Yes, it's a happy time to be the outdoor feline overlord.

My previous suburban residence had outdoor catnip (front porch and eventually backyard). I put chicken wire over the planter to prevent total crushing of the plants but access to any leaves that grew through the wire. It was a popular stop for all the neighborhood cats on their rounds.

It also seeded out into the yard so I had a few plants coming up here and there including one that wintered next to the house, was kept warm, and went bonkers with the thaw. That one grew about 4' tall and looked like a small shrub next to the porch. Other than that one plant the "wild" growth tended to get rolled and rubbed into oblivion.

My cats also "grazed" where they'd eat grass and then generally hack it back up before coming back inside.

Then one wintery day they went out and one got a load of dry grass into his gut without hacking it up. The grass then absorbed water and swelled up. I had a *very* sick cat. Pet clinic visit and a very scary X-ray (his gut had pushed the rest of his lower internal organs against the ribs.) He survived the experience though and I was much more careful about them grazing.

And that was one reason I started cultivating catnip to given them an alternative greenery roughage sort. Plus the fun of watching wacked out adult cats.

562 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:54:54am

re: #560 bratwurst

Santorum rousing the CPAC troops with praise for "fracking". If he really believes the Almighty would NEVER allow man-made global warming, shouldn't the same also make it a bit easier to get at all that lovely gas?

Carbon just wants to be free.
//

563 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 7:56:28am

re: #561 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's especially funny to watch Basement Cat, my wife's feline overlord, go nuts on the stuff. She is normally a very laid-back and refined cat, but once she's on the nip she's like a sleek black bullet streaking around the basement. My poor feline overlord usually finds a place to cower out of her way for the duration.

564 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:00:03am

re: #563 thedopefishlives

It's especially funny to watch Basement Cat, my wife's feline overlord, go nuts on the stuff. She is normally a very laid-back and refined cat, but once she's on the nip she's like a sleek black bullet streaking around the basement. My poor feline overlord usually finds a place to cower out of her way for the duration.

My cats reacted to it differently:
1. One Siamese (cowardly cat) just got real mellow. Though he would also then go play with catnip mouse or a sock that had dry catnip in it.
2. Other Siamese (Overlord) hyped up and would start chasing his own tail or basically start racing all over the house.
3. Calico (Cat II) would basically just eat more leaves. With dry catnip she'd just start scooping it out of the bowl to scatter it, and then roll in it before lying on it to take a nap.

565 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:02:33am

re: #564 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

My cats reacted to it differently:
1. One Siamese (cowardly cat) just got real mellow. Though he would also then go play with catnip mouse or a sock that had dry catnip in it.
2. Other Siamese (Overlord) hyped up and would start chasing his own tail or basically start racing all over the house.
3. Calico (Cat II) would basically just eat more leaves. With dry catnip she'd just start scooping it out of the bowl to scatter it, and then roll in it before lying on it to take a nap.

My feline overlord, a grey tuxedo cat, just likes to roll in the stuff. He doesn't really eat it. I'm not even sure how he behaves once he does eat it, it's been so long. He just prefers to roll in it and enjoy the smell.

566 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:04:40am

re: #562 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Carbon just wants to be free.
//

It's what makes plants grow.

567 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:11:03am

White House Announces Contraception Accommodation For Religious Orgs

On a conference call with reporters Friday, a senior administration official announced that the White House will move the onus to provide women free contraceptive services to insurance companies if their religiously-affiliated employers object to providing insurance coverage that covers birth control.

"All women will still have access to free preventive care that includes contraceptive services," the official said. "The insurance company will be required to reach out directly and offer her contraceptive coverage free of charge," if the employer objects to providing that coverage in its benefit package.

568 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:12:58am

re: #334 Killgore Trout

...and not political exploitation.

That's right it's only a Nazi symbol (I think my grandfather still had one of their rifle slugs in his ass when he was buried), it's not like they (soldiers) came back and started protesting the war. THAT would be cause for political exploitation.

569 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:13:54am

re: #567 Lidane

Which is simply accounting; the insurance companies aren't going to charge any less to the religious groups.

Basically, this move shows the ridiculousness of the problem in the first place.

570 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:18:58am

re: #569 Obdicut

Speaking of ridiculous, guess what misogynistic loveliness the GOP is up to now?

Republicans Retreat on Domestic Violence

Even in the ultrapolarized atmosphere of Capitol Hill, it should be possible to secure broad bipartisan agreement on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act, the 1994 law at the center of the nation’s efforts to combat domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking. The law’s renewal has strong backing from law enforcement and groups that work with victims, and earlier reauthorizations of the law, in 2000 and 2005, passed Congress with strong support from both sides of the aisle.

Yet not a single Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee voted in favor last week when the committee approved a well-crafted reauthorization bill introduced by its chairman, Senator Patrick Leahy, and Senator Michael Crapo, a Republican of Idaho, who is not on the committee.
...
Senator Charles Grassley, the committee’s ranking Republican, offered a substitute bill that not only cut out those improvements but called for a huge reduction in authorized financing, and elimination of the Justice Department office devoted to administering the law and coordinating the nation’s response to domestic violence and sexual assaults. His measure was defeated along party lines.

571 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:21:14am

re: #570 Interesting Times

all about getting government off people's backs?

572 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:21:18am

re: #569 Obdicut

Which is simply accounting; the insurance companies aren't going to charge any less to the religious groups.

In fact, if they determine that the religious groups have an attendant increase in the numbers of pregnancies, other expensive to treat conditions and cancers that birth control pills prevent (edit: lower the risk of), they could conceivably end up charging them more. I would.

573 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:21:50am

re: #569 Obdicut

IMO it also shows the ridiculousness of all these churches being able to rant and rail against a government policy while not paying taxes.

574 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:23:21am

re: #570 Interesting Times

When the guiding principles above all others are:
1. Reduce federal government
2. Reduce non-military spending
3. Obstruct any and all Democratic Party initiated bills

You then get opposition that seems to make no sense if you're looking at things on the basis of whether they appear to be advantageous to the country and American people as a whole.

575 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:23:56am

re: #570 Interesting Times

Speaking of ridiculous, guess what misogynistic loveliness the GOP is up to now?

Republicans Retreat on Domestic Violence

*headdesk*

Seriously? The GOP is so bound and determined to obstruct Barack Obama that they're going to vote against the Violence Against Women Act? REALLY?

576 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:26:08am

re: #491 A Mom Anon

Well,there's that but also,we're talking about an FDA approved medication here. I don't have diabetes or heart disease,but I'm sure part of my family's healthcare premiums go into the pool that pays for someone else's medication for those diseases. You're buying insurance honestly in the hope that nothing goes wrong,but if it does,your behind is covered. I don't have auto insurance hoping I have a wreck,or homeowner's insurance hoping my house burns down. The people whining about this seem to have no earthly clue as to how insurance works. Not to mention letting someone get between a woman and her doctor,now where have we heard that nonsense before? It's also a hell of a lot cheaper to cover birth control than to cover a pregnancy,birth,post natal care and the care for that new baby til they're grown. I don't see any bitching about those expenses being part of insurance.

I actually started bawling when I heard about this. I'm about to turn 52,my Mom's generation fought these battles,why the hell are we having to go through this crap in 2012? There are some days where the hate is just overwhelming coming from the right,it's fucking sad.

It's beyond depressing.

577 Aye Pod  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:28:46am

re: #450 Obdicut

It is possible they were all goofing off simultaneously during that lecture, and never otherwise encountered the symbol. But it's not probable.

That they've apparently been doing this for awhile means I'm much more interested in their officers than the men. We've gotten into a habit of pillorying the soldiers instead of assigning blame up the chain of command. We should.

I agree. It's all too easy for bosses (of whatever organisation) to play the saint and blame everything on those at the bottom whenever the ugly consequences of their own directives become publicly apparent.

578 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:29:00am

re: #575 Lidane

*headdesk*

Seriously? The GOP is so bound and determined to obstruct Barack Obama that they're going to vote against the Violence Against Women Act? REALLY?

"Women cost too much. Things were much better when we didn't have to accomodate them. Back in the mythical universe before the Civil Right's Act and Roe vs. Wade. They should just stop and let us have our world back."

--Whacko Christian White Male a/k/a Bubba

579 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:30:06am

re: #574 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

When the guiding principles above all others are:
1. Reduce federal government
2. Reduce non-military spending
3. Obstruct any and all Democratic Party initiated bills

You then get opposition that seems to make no sense if you're looking at things on the basis of whether they appear to be advantageous to the country and American people as a whole.

And the GOP has nothing to gain from an economy that is on the mend in 2012. The more they can stall and obfusticate measures to improve it, the more it is to their advantage.

And they are not doing a convincing job of pretending that is not their strategy.

580 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:30:16am

re: #576 ggt

It's beyond depressing.

It's also infuriating.

581 Aye Pod  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:34:04am

re: #568 RayFerd

That's right it's only a Nazi symbol (I think my grandfather still had one of their rifle slugs in his ass when he was buried), it's not like they (soldiers) came back and started protesting the war. THAT would be cause for political exploitation.

FUCK YEAH!

582 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:34:14am

re: #575 Lidane

*headdesk*

Seriously? The GOP is so bound and determined to obstruct Barack Obama that they're going to vote against the Violence Against Women Act? REALLY?

If you think about it in the twisted logic of the GOP, remember, these are the Good Old Boys who treat women as playthings. For them, this is a purely logical point of view, because by golly, we SHOULD have the right to smack a bitch if she won't shut up and make me a sammich.

583 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:36:11am

re: #582 thedopefishlives

If you think about it in the twisted logic of the GOP, remember, these are the Good Old Boys who treat women as playthings. For them, this is a purely logical point of view, because by golly, we SHOULD have the right to smack a bitch if she won't shut up and make me a sammich.

What I'm wondering is if they're really so goddamned stupid and obstructionist that they don't see the problem with voting against a widely supported landmark domestic violence bill in an election year.

Apparently the answer is yes.

584 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:37:45am

re: #583 Lidane

What I'm wondering is if they really so goddamned stupid and obstructionist that they don't see the problem with voting against a widely supported landmark domestic violence bill in an election year.

Apparently the answer is yes.

These guys are so tone-deaf that they don't recognize political suicide when it's staring them right in the face. They are bound and determined to be anti-Obama to the end, assuming that this will energize their base for re-election. The fact that Congress's approval rating is further in the toilet than it has been in all of American history means nothing.

585 erik_t  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:40:04am

re: #584 thedopefishlives

These guys are so tone-deaf that they don't recognize political suicide when it's staring them right in the face. They are bound and determined to be anti-Obama to the end, assuming that this will energize their base for re-election. The fact that Congress's approval rating is further in the toilet than it has been in all of American history means nothing.

0BAMA IS SUCH A TERRIBLE DIVIDER OF A FALSE PRESIDENT THAT HIS HUGE UNPOPULARITY CAN'T HELP BUT RUB OFF ON CONGRESS!!!!1

586 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:44:43am

re: #579 Keynesian Kenyan

And the GOP has nothing to gain from an economy that is on the mend in 2012. The more they can stall and obfusticate measures to improve it, the more it is to their advantage.

And they are not doing a convincing job of pretending that is not their strategy.

Counting on a sufficient mass of voters to continue to remain ignorant (or are happy to be ignorant in support of their prejudices) is annoying. That it is threatening to work is even more annoying. And then the frustration of getting the government we deserve as a mass of fools.

587 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:45:42am

OT: Obama compromise on birth control is to make insurance companies bare the brunt. I was saying this to someone yesterday, as the likely solution. It is likely to still draw fire from the conservatives because it forces insurance companies to cover something which is "big govt" to them. The reality is that they will build the cost into the cross the board premiums. So it really is a red herring. But if it gets the Church on side it is a compromise worth making I suppose.

588 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:47:55am

All that is left now is for the American Taliban to set up their own religious approved Insurance company and challenge the new compromise as a violation of their freedom of religion.

589 erik_t  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:51:03am

re: #588 Petero1818

All that is left now is for the American Taliban to set up their own religious approved Insurance company and challenge the new compromise as a violation of their freedom of religion.

Health insurance really is a form of gambling, isn't it? I know what the Bible has to say about that.

590 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:52:58am

re: #543 Lidane

Rasmussen Tracking: Obama With A Ten Point Lead Over Romney

It's the weaseling.

I'm convinced that people would easily forgive Mitt for being rich.

I'm close to convinced that they'd forgive him for the 15% tax rate, as long as it was on the up-and-up.

But when he goes and spreads that dingaling story about how with charitable contributions and what-have-you, that his tax rate is closer to 40% -- there's only so much bullshit you can swallow before you finally get fed up and yell "Hey -- this is BULLSHIT!"

591 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 8:58:28am

re: #567 Lidane

White House Announces Contraception Accommodation For Religious Orgs

So this will do all of nothing to stop the Catholic Church from making a fuss. It'll just make it slightly harder for women to get the coverage.

592 erik_t  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:01:30am

re: #591 Simply Sarah

So this will do all of nothing to stop the Catholic Church from making a fuss. It'll just make it slightly harder for women to get the coverage.

On the contrary, both Catholics United and Catholic Health Association appear to support the move, possibly undercutting the USCCB whiners.

593 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:02:07am

re: #590 BongCrodny

It's the weaseling.

It's also the fact that he comes across as insincere and he looks like the guy who fires you then goes back to his golf game.

John Kerry had a lot of the same problems. A rich patrician from Massachusetts that's boring and doesn't really inspire any sort of feelings except apathy doesn't do a party any favors, especially when your entire campaign is predicated on not being the POTUS.

594 erik_t  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:04:33am

re: #593 Lidane

John Kerry was, above all else, boring. Romney is quite boring, but I think one's one-word description would more likely be 'weaselly'.

595 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:05:24am

re: #594 erik_t

John Kerry was, above all else, boring. Romney is quite boring, but I think one's one-word description would more likely be 'weaselly'.

I wouldn't call him "weaselly," just "clueless."

596 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:05:24am

re: #592 erik_t

On the contrary, both Catholics United and Catholic Health Association appear to support the move, possibly undercutting the USCCB whiners.

Both those groups are known to be far more progressive than the Catholic leadership, especially on not getting caught up in these sorts of symbolic issues, and won't have much sway with anyone listening to the USCCB.

597 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:06:54am

re: #596 Simply Sarah

Both those groups are known to be far more progressive than the Catholic leadership, especially on not getting caught up in these sorts of symbolic issues, and won't have much sway with anyone listening to the USCCB.

True, but since most Catholics don't listen to the Vatican when it comes to birth control or sex anyway, I think the support of the more progressive groups will go a long way to helping the POTUS make his case.

598 erik_t  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:07:09am

re: #596 Simply Sarah

That's great. They were previously stumbling blocks, so to state that this will do 'all of nothing' seems dubious.

599 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:09:18am

re: #597 Lidane

True, but since most Catholics don't listen to the Vatican when it comes to birth control or sex anyway, I think the support of the more progressive groups will go a long way to helping the POTUS make his case.

Oh, I understand this. I'm just saying that they directly won't put much pressure on the bishops to back down. I'll also admit I cannot really be objective when dealing with Catholic Church related issues. Raised, confirmed, and then wondered WTF I was thinking all those years.

600 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:12:53am

re: #599 Simply Sarah

I'll also admit I cannot really be objective when dealing with Catholic Church related issues. Raised, confirmed, and then wondered WTF I was thinking all those years.

You and me both. I get it, believe me. I stopped going to Mass when I was 18 and moved out of the house. Haven't set foot in a church in over 20 years aside from the occasional wedding, funeral, or service with my Mom, and even then I just quietly follow the motions but don't participate in the Mass at all, since it would be a lie.

I just think that birth control is a stupid thing for the bishops to get hung up on. Something like 98% of all Catholic women here in the States have used birth control. They also like having the option of birth control, and insurance coverage for it is a bonus. A bunch of old men ranting about birth control aren't going to change that.

601 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:14:57am

re: #600 Lidane

I think the total lack of female bishops has something to do with it.

602 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:16:10am

The Prez is on.....

603 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:17:45am

re: #557 ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

Nice nic you have there. Is it pronounced 'throatwarbler mangrove', or 'tecolote'?

604 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:18:52am

Obama's on tv. CBS

605 Simply Sarah  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:19:30am

re: #600 Lidane

You and me both. I get it, believe me. I stopped going to Mass when I was 18 and moved out of the house. Haven't set foot in a church in over 20 years aside from the occasional wedding, funeral, or service with my Mom, and even then I just quietly follow the motions but don't participate in the Mass at all, since it would be a lie.

I just think that birth control is a stupid thing for the bishops to get hung up on. Something like 98% of all Catholic women here in the States have used birth control. They also like having the option of birth control, and insurance coverage for it is a bonus. A bunch of old men ranting about birth control aren't going to change that.

Well, as we all know, they're hung up on it because they're just following the backwards ass policy put out by the Vatican. It's an issue with the Church leadership in general and I don't see it being fixed any time soon, sadly.

606 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:21:10am

re: #604 Amory Blaine

Obama's on tv. CBS

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

607 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:22:28am

OK, just finished.

608 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:24:08am

re: #607 Gus

What'd he say?

609 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:24:50am

re: #608 Obdicut

What'd he say?

I just caught the tail end. Like the last two sentences. I'm sure there will be a transcript soon.

610 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:24:59am

The General Counsel for TPM is named "Millet Israeli". That sounds made-up.

611 Alexzander  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:25:23am

re: #608 Obdicut

What'd he say?

There are Nazis on the moon and they will soon invade.

612 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:26:08am

Contraception for everyone. If you work for a religious institute that won't cover it, the employers insurance company must provide it free of charge, outside of the church.re: #608 Obdicut

613 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:27:21am

re: #611 Alexzander

There are Nazis on the moon and they will soon invade.

Just as long as they leave off the giant robot Hitler. That guy sucked.

614 RogueOne  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:28:16am

re: #612 Amory Blaine

Contraception for everyone. If you work for a religious institute that won't cover it, the employers insurance company must provide it free of charge, outside of the church.

And that compromise was always in the plan but he wanted to work it out over the next year instead of immediately.

615 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:28:29am

In other news.

Catholic Cardinal Retracts Apology For Sex Abuse Scandal

616 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:29:24am

re: #611 Alexzander

There are Nazis on the moon and they will soon invade.

FTFY ;)

617 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:29:45am

re: #615 Gus

Wow. How ill-timed.

618 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:30:58am

Twitter finally upgraded me. Supposedly I can now embed tweets, but it's not working in Preview.

Nor when posted.

620 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:31:23am

re: #617 Obdicut

Wow. How ill-timed.

Speaking of which...

621 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:31:39am

Just got a notice that my Dear Old Dad's cremains will be shipped next wee. He donated his body to science and when they are done with everything, they send the askes back to the family if so requested.

Feeling really weird right now.

622 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:32:16am

re: #615 Gus

Our Cardinal just came out today basically denouncing Obama and praising Scott Walker. Listecki was brought in to play hardball after Dolan left.

623 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:32:19am

re: #497 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Maybe they read a lot of John Ringo novels?
/

In case anyone thought this was simply flippant Ringo did co-write a SF novel that did involve reactivating the Waffen-SS.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And said book has caused a stir in a number of places. Including a few friends of mine boycotting Baen.

624 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:32:31am

re: #621 ggt

{ggt}

625 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:32:35am

re: #605 Simply Sarah

Well, as we all know, they're hung up on it because they're just following the backwards ass policy put out by the Vatican. It's an issue with the Church leadership in general and I don't see it being fixed any time soon, sadly.

It is also a major rallying point for conservatives wanting to demonstrate their point that Obama is somehow forcing a secularist Islamist Socilist agenda on The AMerica We Know and Love and Must Fight to Get Back.

626 erik_t  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:33:01am

re: #619 Lidane

More on the story:

Retired New York Cardinal Egan retracts apology on Catholic priest sex abuse

God, too good even for the 'we only wish we had done more' non-apology. Astonishing.

627 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:33:10am

Really, how are the Bishops and the Mullahs all that different. Both hate women and like little boys.

Both think they are absolutely correct 100% of the time.

628 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:33:19am

Now we wait for the wingnut canaries in the coal mine to respond to Obama's announcement.

You think they'll be happy?

//

629 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:34:40am

re: #628 Gus

No we wait for the wingnut canaries in the coal mine to respond to Obama's announcement.

You think they'll be happy?

//

In either case. If Obama had backed down they'd be yelling about him kowtowing to the Pope.
//

630 Sionainn  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:35:29am

re: #621 ggt

Just got a notice that my Dear Old Dad's cremains will be shipped next wee. He donated his body to science and when they are done with everything, they send the askes back to the family if so requested.

Feeling really weird right now.

I get that. I volunteered to get my mother's remains from the mortuary and thought I wouldn't have a problem with it. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be. (((ggt)))

631 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:35:43am

re: #627 ggt

There are probably good, dedicated bishops out there. But the focus of the hierarchy is still unbelievably weird; gays and birth control. And saying they like little boys isn't remotely true; they cover up for the priests who do. There hasn't been an accusation against a bishop in particular yet, I don't think.

632 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:36:53am

re: #622 Amory Blaine

Sorry I meant to say Archbishop.

633 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:36:54am

Derp alert!

MUST SEE VIDEO: Occupy Unmasked

The trailer for the new film produced by Citizens United and directed by Stephen K. Bannon. "Occupy Unmasked" goes deep into the "Occupy" movement and exposes its origins as well as the radical ideas behind "income inequality" that has become the centerpiece of the Obama re-election effort.

Fox Nation. You can "find" the page at the Google link included here.

634 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:43:10am

My surprise, let me show you it:

The Conspiracy Videos In The Hutaree’s Library

Federal prosecutors, meanwhile, have indicated they want to use conspiracy-mongering videos and books found in possession of members of the Hutaree militia in the trial. Hutaree members were evidently fans of Sept. 11 conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, a short-wave radio host named Mark Koernke who warned about the so-called “New World Order,” and a book written by a man who thought aliens were involved in the U.S. government and who was killed after resisting arrest and shooting an officer in the head.

Other anti-government DVDs found in possession of various defendants included:

“Loose Change,” a Sept. 11 conspiracy film,
“Fall of the Republic,” which shows how an “offshore corporate cartel is bankrupting the US economy by design,”
“Waco - Rules of Engagement,” perhaps a strange choice for the prosecutor’s list given that the film is pretty mainstream and was nominated for an Academy Award,
“One Nation Under Siege,” which presents “the massive and ceaseless control projected onto an unsuspecting populace by a government that seems to have questionable motives and mendacious answers,”
“Endgame,” an Alex Jones film
“The Obama Deceptions,” another Alex Jones movie,
“Wake Up or Waco,”
“The Legacy of William Cooper,”
“Bohemian Grove,” another Jones film,
“9/11 Road to Tyranny,” Jones, once again

635 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:44:49am

re: #631 Obdicut

There are probably good, dedicated bishops out there. But the focus of the hierarchy is still unbelievably weird; gays and birth control. And saying they like little boys isn't remotely true; they cover up for the priests who do. There hasn't been an accusation against a bishop in particular yet, I don't think.

Yes, I was exaggerating.

636 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:46:12am

Have a great day all!

637 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:47:04am

To lighten the mood, some Friday morning comedy:

Youtube Video
638 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:48:30am

More comedy. Apparently, getting bitch-slapped in courtrooms across the country just doesn't sink in for some folks:

Whitehall Man Aiming to Remove Obama from PA Ballot

639 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:49:22am

re: #631 Obdicut

There are probably good, dedicated bishops out there. But the focus of the hierarchy is still unbelievably weird; gays and birth control. And saying they like little boys isn't remotely true; they cover up for the priests who do. There hasn't been an accusation against a bishop in particular yet, I don't think.

Remember that Rick Santorum advanced the talking point that it was the sexually promiscuous atmosphere of the 60's and 70's that led priests to experiment with pedophilia...

I am not even joking about this, they are that far into their own little ideological world.

640 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:50:35am

Ick. I feel like I fell in a cesspit.

Haven't been reading military SF in a while and saw that the Ringo book above was co-written. So I looked up the co-author, who is ex-military as well. And among his novels is one called _Caliphate_, published in 2008. Instant alarm bells - but curiousity as well. So I go forth on Google and look for reviews of said novel.

[Link: thinkingmansguidetotheworld.blogspot.com...]

I wish I can say I was surprised by the novel contents, opinion of the reviewer, or the additional comments on the site, but I wasn't.

641 Kragar  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:53:11am

Well, this should be amusing. I got an official survey from the RNC asking how I felt about the Obama administration, complete with a 2 page warning not to fall for the Liberal Media Elite lies.

642 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:54:18am

re: #641 Kragar

Well, this should be amusing. I got an official survey from the RNC asking how I felt about the Obama administration, complete with a 2 page warning not to fall for the Liberal Media Elite lies.

You should scan, critique and page it. The critique should qualify the scanning as fair use.

643 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:54:22am

re: #641 Kragar

Well, this should be amusing. I got an official survey from the RNC asking how I felt about the Obama administration, complete with a 2 page warning not to fall for the Liberal Media Elite lies.

Gee whiz. That's unbiased.

//

644 AK-47%  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:55:36am

re: #641 Kragar

Well, this should be amusing. I got an official survey from the RNC asking how I felt about the Obama administration, complete with a 2 page warning not to fall for the Liberal Media Elite lies.

Two pages is not enough warning. You need the Old and New Testaments, plus a copy of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, a copy of Glenn Becks's "The Overton Wondow" and "The History of the War Between the States" to fill you in on all the dangers facing us.

645 Lidane  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:55:38am

re: #642 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You should scan, critique and page it. The critique should qualify the scanning as fair use.

Yeah, this.

646 Gus  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 9:59:16am

For those interested this was released today.

The White House

Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
February 10, 2012
FACT SHEET: Women’s Preventive Services and Religious Institutions

Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, most health insurance plans will cover women’s preventive services, including contraception, without charging a co-pay or deductible beginning in August, 2012. This new law will save money for millions of Americans and ensure Americans nationwide get the high-quality care they need to stay healthy.

Today, President Obama will announce that his Administration will implement a policy that accommodates religious liberty while protecting the health of women. Today, nearly 99 percent of all women have used contraception at some point in their lives, but more than half of all women between the ages of 18-34 struggle to afford it.

Under the new policy to be announced today, women will have free preventive care that includes contraceptive services no matter where she works. The policy also ensures that if a woman works for religious employers with objections to providing contraceptive services as part of its health plan, the religious employer will not be required to provide contraception coverage, but her insurance company will be required to offer contraceptive care free of charge.

The new policy ensures women can get contraception without paying a co-pay and addresses important concerns raised by religious groups by ensuring that objecting religious employers will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer women to organizations that provide contraception. Background on this policy is included below:

• Section 2713 of the Affordable Care Act, the Administration adopted new guidelines that will require most private health plans to cover preventive services for women without charging a co-pay starting on August 1, 2012. These preventive services include well women visits, domestic violence screening, and contraception, and all were recommended to the Secretary of Health and Human Services by the independent Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Science.

• Today, the Obama Administration will publish final rules in the Federal Register that:

o Exempts churches, other houses of worship, and similar organizations from covering contraception on the basis of their religious objections.

o Establishes a one year transition period for religious organizations while this policy is being implemented.

• The President will also announce that his Administration will propose and finalize a new regulation during this transition year to address the religious objections of the non-exempted religious organizations. The new regulation will require insurance companies to cover contraception if the non-exempted religious organization chooses not to. Under the policy:

o Religious organizations will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer their employees to organizations that provide contraception.

o Religious organizations will not be required to subsidize the cost of contraception.

o Contraception coverage will be offered to women by their employers’ insurance companies directly, with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.

o Insurance companies will be required to provide contraception coverage to these women free of charge.

Covering contraception saves money for insurance companies by keeping women healthy and preventing spending on other health services. For example, there was no increase in premiums when contraception was added to the Federal Employees Health Benefit System and required of non-religious employers in Hawaii. One study found that covering contraception lowered premiums by 10 percent or more.

Not the actual press announcement but it includes the new policy.

647 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 10:01:05am

re: #641 Kragar

Well, this should be amusing. I got an official survey from the RNC asking how I felt about the Obama administration, complete with a 2 page warning not to fall for the Liberal Media Elite lies.

I always get spam email from "Americans For Prosperity" (the wingnut anti-Obama group paid for by the Koch brothers), I like to read them just for the lulz.

648 simoom  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 10:01:27am

[Link: health.heraldtribune.com...]

Women will still get guaranteed access to birth control without co-pays or premiums no matter where they work, a provision of Obama’s health care law that he insisted must remain. But religious universities and hospitals that see contraception as an unconscionable violation of their faith can refuse to cover it, and insurance companies will then have to step in to do so.

By keeping free contraception for employers at religious workplaces — but providing a different way to do it — the White House will assert it gave no ground on the basic principle of full preventative care that matters most to Obama.

...

The president of the Catholic Health Association, a trade group representing Catholic hospitals that had fought against the birth control requirement, said the organization was pleased with the revised rule.

“The framework developed has responded to the issues we identified that needed to be fixed,” Sister Carol Keehan said in a statement.

Planned Parenthood also backed the revisions, saying the Obama administration was still committed to ensuring all women have access to birth control coverage, no matter where they work.

“We believe the compliance mechanism does not compromise a woman’s ability to access these critical birth control benefits,” Cecile Richards, the women’s group president, said.

Officials said Obama has the legal authority to order insurance companies to provide free contraception coverage directly to workers. He will demand it in a new rule.

It will be interesting to see how the GOP & the catholic bishops respond. A bunch of legislation on the subject has already been put forward, and the few statements so far from the bishops signal they're none-too-pleased.

649 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 10:02:02am

re: #644 Keynesian Kenyan

Two pages is not enough warning. You need the Old and New Testaments, plus a copy of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, a copy of Glenn Becks's "The Overton Wondow" and "The History of the War Between the States" to fill you in on all the dangers facing us.

Probably needs a pop-up tinfoil hat included to prevent being affected by the Mind Control Satellites.

650 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 10, 2012 11:54:27am

re: #623 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

In case anyone thought this was simply flippant Ringo did co-write a SF novel that did involve reactivating the Waffen-SS.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And said book has caused a stir in a number of places. Including a few friends of mine boycotting Baen.

I am not especially surprised given the content of some of his other novels. Some of the absolute monarchy worship and environmentalists as "The Ultimate Evil In The Universe" gets old quick. This is simply more of the same really. The only author I'll buy from them any more is Lois McMaster Bujold.


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