Now the GOP Wants to Permit Any Employer to Deny Contraception Coverage

The Republican Party’s total war on women’s rights

WingnutsFebruary 2012 • Views: 43,164

The Republican Party’s descent into Dark Ages misogyny continues; now Mitch McConnell, sensing that the GOP is on a reactionary roll, is planning to introduce legislation to let any employer deny contraception coverage.

Just amazing. In the space of a few months the Republican Party has gone from opposing abortion to opposing birth control — even though the vast majority of Americans use contraception of some kind.

They’re not even trying to use the “religious exception” excuse any more. It’s a flat out war on contraception.

Not satisfied with President Obama’s new religious accommodation, Republicans will move forward with legislation that permits any employer to deny contraception coverage in their health insurance plans, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said Sunday.

“If we end up having to try to overcome the President’s opposition by legislation, of course I’d be happy to support it, and intend to support it,” McConnell said. “We’ll be voting on that in the Senate and you can anticipate that that would happen as soon as possible.”

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168 comments

Sionainn Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:36:52am

I'm thinking the insurance companies wouldn't be okay with employers denying contraception coverage. After all, it costs much less money for insurance companies to provide birth control than it does to cover pregnancies.

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:37:36am

re: #1 Sionainn

This free-market effect sounds dangerous and un-American. I think we'd better just go ahead and ban contraceptives.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:38:02am

I can't believe that the Republican party is declaring war on birth control in 2012. WTF.

Obdicut Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:40:33am

Who the hell, actual human beings, are actually against birth control? Not just say they are, but really are?

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:41:47am

Yep. But they're still trying to mask it.

They're not against birth control. They're against interference with the freedom of religion. //

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:41:49am

Amanda Marcotte thinks Obama trapped them with their own bad habits.

Obama Punks the GOP on Contraception
Obama just pulled a fast one on Republicans. He drew this out for two weeks, letting Republicans work themselves into a frenzy of anti-contraception rhetoric, all thinly disguised as concern for religious liberty, and then created a compromise that addressed their purported concerns but without actually reducing women's access to contraception, which is what this has always been about. (As Dana Goldstein reported in 2010, before the religious liberty gambit was brought up, the Catholic bishops were just demanding that women be denied access and told to abstain from sex instead.) With the fig leaf of religious liberty removed, Republicans are in a bad situation. They can either drop this and slink away knowing they've been punked, or they can double down. But in order to do so, they'll have to be more blatantly anti-contraception, a politically toxic move in a country where 99% of women have used contraception.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:42:12am

And while they're at it, they should allow restaurants and lunch counters to ban members of ethnic groups they do not wish to serve...

Political Atheist Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:42:16am

What they really need is some mouth control.
STFU GOP.

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:42:36am

It's as if though one needs an anthropology degree in order to deal with the Republican ideological and moral primitivism.

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:43:00am

The scariest adversary is the one you do not understand.

I understand Karl Rove and Darth Cheney, though I do not like them. I cannot understand why the GOP would choose this battlefield to die upon. It makes no goddamned sense.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:43:25am

re: #6 jaunte

Amanda Marcotte thinks Obama trapped them with their own bad habits.

I honestly hope that's the case. I'd like to believe these morons just fell for a game of rope-a-dope, especially in an election year.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:43:28am

re: #6 jaunte

Amanda Marcotte thinks Obama trapped them with their own bad habits.

That was his approach to nirtherism: he let it become such an Article of True Faith in the GOP that they could not just walk away from it even after Obama finally released his long form, something he could have done months earlier but did not have to...

Stanghazi Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:43:48am

Well this is kinda easy. Without having to get into deep politics in my social or office activities, all I have to say is the GOP is against birth control and watch their mouths drop.

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:45:40am

Good summary of the legal position, via Sarah Posner:

Religious institutions already comply with very similar laws to the announced January 20 rule in 28 states. Catholic Charities challenged substantially similar laws to the new federal regulation in two states, California and New York, and the highest courts in both states held that there was no violation of the First Amendment right to free exercise of religion. That’s because the law doesn’t “substantially burden” anyone’s religious practice and is one of general applicability that was not targeted at infringing a particular religious practice.

To permit religious beliefs to “excuse compliance with otherwise valid laws regulating matters the state is free to regulate,” would, the California Supreme Court wrote in its 2004 decision, quoting from a U.S. Supreme Court case, “‘make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.’”
[Link: www.religiondispatches.org...]

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:46:59am

Compromise. It is a beautiful word and a wonderful concept. It is a damn shame that the Republicans have not learned it yet.

Romantic Heretic Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:48:02am

re: #10 erik_t

The scariest adversary is the one you do not understand.

I understand Karl Rove and Darth Cheney, though I do not like them. I cannot understand why the GOP would choose this battlefield to die upon. It makes no goddamned sense.

I understand them. They're revolutionaries. It is their intention to destroy the system that currently exists and replace it with one where they are in charge, forever.

Like the Jacobins or the Bolsheviks.

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:48:11am

re: #15 PhillyPretzel

Compromise. It is a beautiful word and a wonderful concept. It is a damn shame that the Republicans have not learned it yet.

Sure they have. It means, "we discuss our differences and you agree to accept my position."

FranSeaLou Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:48:21am

I left the GOP in the early '90s due to the influence of the religious right coming in and taking it over at the precinct level. I've been trying to convince people that this group of people exists to send us back to the dark ages. Some of my relatives think I'm nuts. Some have joined the religious wackos and some just think whatever FauxNoise tells them to think. Ack!

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:49:29am

re: #17 kirkspencer
lol. That is altering the meaning to fit their warped ideas.

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:49:35am

re: #16 Romantic Heretic

I understand them. They're revolutionaries. It is their intention to destroy the system that currently exists and replace it with one where they are in charge, forever.

Like the Jacobins or the Bolsheviks.

You can't convince me that most of the GOP leadership believes this, or is so stupid as to think that more than single-digit percentages of the country believe this.

Shit, my boss is certainly a user of birth control, and he won't watch Hulu because it's 'too liberal'.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:49:46am

re: #15 PhillyPretzel

Compromise. It is a beautiful word and a wonderful concept. It is a damn shame that the Republicans have not learned it yet.

Are you kidding? Jim DeMint was at CPAC this year saying that compromise was the enemy.

The current GOP has no interest in working with this President. That's why they've decided that birth control is a bad thing that must be defeated at all costs.

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:49:54am

Soon the Republican Party will want to ban sex altogether outside of marriage and procreation. Thus they will propose a law that states, "an employer can terminate an employee at any time if said employer finds that said employee has engaged in sex under the two (2) conditions of a) being outside of a heterosexual marriage AND b) outside of the act for procreation."

Obdicut Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:49:56am

Contraception is a good thing from every possible angle. It saves money-- much cheaper to distribute contraceptives than deal with pregnancies. It saves companies money-- much cheaper to have employees not getting pregnant than getting pregnant. It reduces the number of abortions.

There is no possible way in which contraceptives are bad, except in the made-up-fantasy land where availability of contraceptives increases sexual activity. This last part is not reality. Pretending that it is reality isn't going to convince many actual human beings, who know their own sexuality and know it really doesn't need much prompting.

Obdicut Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:51:37am

The only people I know who are actually against contraception are asshole guys who refuse to use condoms. And they are assholes.

Archangelus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:51:55am

Wow, under what rock have these cretins been hibernating under for the better part of, oh I dunno, several centuries?
I'm not one for negative ads and such, but so help me, the Dems need to unleash all manner of righteous hell on these bass-ackwards trolls in the coming campaign, so that everyone sees them for what they are...

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:52:05am

re: #22 Gus

Soon the Republican Party will want to ban sex altogether outside of marriage and procreation. Thus they will propose a law that states, "an employer can terminate an employee at any time if said employer finds that said employee has engaged in sex under the two (2) conditions of a) being outside of a heterosexual marriage AND b) outside of the act for procreation."

What if I just want to knock up a prostitute? We're makin' a baby... that's okay, right?

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:52:05am

re: #23 Obdicut

Oh, don't try to rationalize religion.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:52:06am

re: #23 Obdicut

There is no possible way in which contraceptives are bad, except in the made-up-fantasy land where availability of contraceptives increases sexual activity.

It's also the same fantasy land where contraception is the same thing as abortion, and where the only people who take it are selfish assholes who are having sex for pleasure instead of for making babies.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:52:30am

re: #23 Obdicut

There is also the notion that making it available it tanamount to encouraging people to be promiscuous, which is an archaic, Puritannical view of the world - and one which seems to be reasserting itself in our political dialogue.

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:52:51am

re: #24 Obdicut

The only people I know who are actually against contraception are asshole guys who refuse to use condoms. And they are assholes.

They're only against their use on contraception. I'd bet you three whole nickels that they expect all women to be on the pill.

Archangelus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:53:06am

re: #15 PhillyPretzel

Compromise. It is a beautiful word and a wonderful concept. It is a damn shame that the Republicans have not learned it yet.

Oh, they know it, all right.. as public enemy no. 1...

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:53:28am

re: #23 Obdicut

It's the made-up-fantasy land where this is an issue (real or not, doesn't matter) that will help the GOP defeat Obama.

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:53:55am

re: #29 Keynesian Kenyan

There is also the notion that making it available it tanamount to encouraging people to be promiscuous, which is an archaic, Puritannical view of the world - and one which seems to be reasserting itself in our political dialogue.

This. Recall that it was the most predominate argument over the HPV vaccine.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:53:58am

re: #30 erik_t

They're only against their use on contraception. I'd bet you three whole nickels that they expect all women to be on the pill.

Yeah, this. They don't want to use condoms for a variety of bullshit reasons, but every woman must be on the pill.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:54:10am

re: #30 erik_t

They're only against their use on contraception. I'd bet you three whole nickels that they expect all women to be on the pill.

The asshole logic behind it being: "Women are the ones who get pregnant, therefore birth control is their problem."

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:54:28am

GOP's Federal Sex Amendment

Sex in the United States shall consist only of the copulation between a man and a woman (as so married under the stipulations of the Federal Marriage Amendment) engaged in the act of procreation. Neither this Constitution or the constitution of any State, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that sex or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups or those outside the act of procreation.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:54:49am

repost from previous thread:

So providing Time off for pregnancy related issues, childbirth and maternity leave is a more cost effective alternative?

The GOP has left Capitalism wringing it's hands and asking what it did to deserve abandonment.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:55:22am

re: #36 Gus

GOP's Federal Sex Amendment

Sex in the United States shall consist only of the copulation between a man and a woman (as so married under the stipulations of the Federal Marriage Amendment) engaged in the act of procreation. Neither this Constitution or the constitution of any State, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that sex or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups or those outside the act of procreation.

unless it's Rent Boys or your wife is dying in the hospital.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:55:51am

re: #36 Gus

S** is a dirty word. Replace with something else. Like "biblical knowing".

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:56:19am

re: #37 ggt

There are two threads in the GOP: social conservatism and free-market Capitalism. The Former has really gained the upper hand of late.

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:56:32am

re: #39 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

S** is a dirty word. Replace with something else. Like "biblical knowing".

Copulation! Anything else is carnal.

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:57:09am

re: #32 jaunte

It's the made-up-fantasy land where this is an issue (real or not, doesn't matter) that will help the GOP defeat Obama.

While for a long time I referred to it as zealotry, I've recently been describing it as gideonism. That's the principle that if you're pure enough, God will ensure your victory. Same principle, different framing (Gideon's example was a war/battle situation).

Nevermind that for gideonism to work, democracy must fail.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:58:07am

re: #41 Gus

Copulation! Anything else is carnal.

//

Copulation is when the cops do it. //

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:58:27am

GOP: meet the old boss...

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:58:53am

re: #40 Keynesian Kenyan

There are two threads in the GOP: social conservatism and free-market Capitalism. The Former has really gained the upper hand of late.

There used to be three. Nativism and dominionism merged to what we now call social conservatism. The corporatists (which aren't, really, free market capitalists) are still on the other side.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:59:44am

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 9:59:46am

re: #40 Keynesian Kenyan

There are two threads in the GOP: social conservatism and free-market Capitalism. The Former has really gained the upper hand of late.

And if the GOP actually ends up voting to allow companies to deny birth control to people, it will be the anchor around their neck that sinks them in an election year.

I'd bet money that even most people who consider themselves pro-life are pro-contraception and want wider access and wider coverage for it, because they know that reducing unwanted pregnancies reduces the abortion rate. It's only the real religious fanatics who think that outlawing contraception is a good thing.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:00:02am

re: #4 Obdicut

Who the hell, actual human beings, are actually against birth control? Not just say they are, but really are?

They are certainly for it for "some" people.

You know, those one's that shouldn't be reproducing and changing the balance of power in this country and the world.

There is a real concern that white people will be outbred. They'd make inter-racial marriage illegal again if they could.

Pure racism.

Robert O. Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:00:58am

Now, more than ever, we don't need Freedom OF Religion - we need Freedom FROM religion (all religions)!

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:01:10am

This old fool looks so happy with his clever plan.
Image: rollcallpix062347-mcconnell_036_100411-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

McConnell went on to embellish the argument, claiming Obama is being “rigid in his view that he gets to decide what somebody else’s religion is.” He said that “this issue will not go away until the administration simply backs down.”

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:01:24am

re: #48 ggt

I disagree. It makes cynical sense, but then they would be for abortions for these groups too. As such, they're agains both abortions and easy access to contraception.

Ming Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:01:26am

What next? An act of Congress that makes it legal for any employer to deny coverage for the HPV vaccine? Coverage for drugs that fight the AIDS virus?

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:01:44am

re: #1 Sionainn

I'm thinking the insurance companies wouldn't be okay with employers denying contraception coverage. After all, it costs much less money for insurance companies to provide birth control than it does to cover pregnancies.

When I started in the insurance office when I was 19 I had to learn all about the different lines of insurance. My agent/boss told me that health insurance was so much more expensive for women than for men because Pregnancy was the single most dangerous thing covered by health insurance.

We've forgotten that as a society.

Or some men (Catholic Bishops) have.

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:02:19am

re: #43 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

Copulation is when the cops do it. //

Copulation for procreation must be encouraged within the population of the "traditional citizens" of the United States in order to attain the much needed expansion of a "wider anglosphere."

allegro Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:02:22am

re: #37 ggt

So providing Time off for pregnancy related issues, childbirth and maternity leave is a more cost effective alternative?

Nope, but it is an effective argument, in their simple minds, for denying women equal opportunity and pay in the workplace. See, women can't be hired for "important" work because they'll just get knocked up and leave the essential position open. They certainly can't serve in the military, police, etc. because they may be preggers and OMG. Can't be paid equally either for the same reason.

Anyone who thinks this is about birth control and babies is delusional.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:02:31am

re: #44 Gus

GOP: meet the old boss...

GOPulation.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:02:35am

re: #51 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

I disagree. It makes cynical sense, but then they would be for abortions for these groups too. As such, they're agains both abortions and easy access to contraception.

You are looking for logic from these whackos?

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:02:50am

re: #50 jaunte

This old fool looks so happy with his clever plan.
Image: rollcallpix062347-mcconnell_036_100411-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

Egads. Look at them all. They even look the part.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:03:03am

re: #54 Gus

Copulation for procreation must be encouraged within the population of the "traditional citizens" of the United States in order to attain the much needed expansion of a "wider anglosphere."

//

#56 is indepedent of that. Coincidence.

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:04:29am

GOP Birth Control

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:04:53am

re: #55 allegro

Nope, but it is an effective argument, in their simple minds, for denying women equal opportunity and pay in the workplace. See, women can't be hired for "important" work because they'll just get knocked up and leave the essential position open. They certainly can't serve in the military, police, etc. because they may be preggers and OMG. Can't be paid equally either for the same reason.

Anyone who thinks this is about birth control and babies is delusional.

It's about the most insidious of vices: POWER.

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:04:58am

Confederates all. Coincidence? I think not.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:05:14am

re: #57 ggt

You are looking for logic from these whackos?

?
You said that they followed that tribal logic, not me. I don't see evidence that these people are part-contraception, part anti-contraception, depending on the group. They're anti-choice and anti-birth control, regardless.

Charles Johnson Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:06:33am

There's another unbelievable deluge of open racism at Fox News, in the comments for their article on Whitney Houston.

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:06:45am

re: #63 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

?
You said that they followed that tribal logic, not me. I don't see evidence that these people are part-contraception, part anti-contraception, depending on the group. They're anti-choice and anti-birth control, regardless.

But... they're not. Again, 98-99% of women use or have used birth control. So what the shit is the leadership thinking?

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:07:47am

re: #65 erik_t

But... they're not. Again, 98-99% of women use or have used birth control. So what the shit is the leadership thinking?

The leadership is thinking they want to defeat Barack Obama at all costs. The rest is details.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:08:18am

re: #63 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

?
You said that they followed that tribal logic, not me. I don't see evidence that these people are part-contraception, part anti-contraception, depending on the group. They're anti-choice and anti-birth control, regardless.

Ah, I see the disconnect.

Not-White-Christian People don't count as people in their minds.

The only rule that applies to non-people is that they can't interefere or otherwise piss-off White Christian People. The rules change according to the day or the mood of the White Christian Person in any given situation.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:08:21am

re: #65 erik_t

But... they're not. Again, 98-99% of women use or have used birth control. So what the shit is the leadership thinking?

How are they not if they introduce these bills?

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:08:23am

re: #65 erik_t

I don't think they care much what women think.

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:08:36am

re: #66 Lidane

Yes, yes, but do they think they'll defeat Obama with 1-2% of the vote? Shit, let's be charitable and say 10%, for all of the self-hating voters out there.

Sense: they're not making it.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:08:44am

re: #64 Charles Johnson

There's another unbelievable deluge of open racism at Fox News, in the comments for their article on Whitney Houston.

FFS, why her of all people?

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:08:45am

Oh you'll love this.

20% of Republicans leaning to Obama!

That's how crazy the GOP has become. WND link.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:09:24am

re: #72 Gus

Oh you'll love this.

20% of Republicans leaning to Obama!

That's how crazy the GOP has become. WND link.

There were Reagan Democrats. Now there are Obama Republicans.

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:09:54am

re: #65 erik_t

But... they're not. Again, 98-99% of women use or have used birth control. So what the shit is the leadership thinking?

They're thinking - believing - that

Real Americans

(tm) are the majority of not only the voters but the citizenry. All the other voters are traitors, thieves, and fools.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:10:40am

re: #71 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

FFS, why her of all people?

The racist neanderthals over there don't care. Every black person is going to get attacked.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:10:59am

If a person uses a method to prevent pregnancy and the spread of diseases --chooses adult willing partners -- what is wrong with promiscuity?

allegro Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:11:44am

re: #71 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

FFS, why her of all people?

She's black. But they aren't racist. Really. It's just an evil leftie smear.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:11:50am

I gotta go again,

Have a great afternoon all!

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:12:31am

re: #71 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

They know she was better than they are, and they can't stand it.

allegro Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:12:54am

re: #76 ggt

If a person uses a method to prevent pregnancy and the spread of diseases --chooses adult willing partners -- what is wrong with promiscuity?

That would mean having more fun that these repressed, pearl-clutching church ladies, that's why.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:14:05am

OK, I gotta witness it myself.

A Man for all Seasons Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:15:47am

I believe every woman has the right to choose.. And No party should have any say at all in that decision..
I was given up for adoption by a 16 year old girl from Central Valley California.
It's been a difficult journey but one filled with highs and lows, love and hate, failure and success..What a life made by a choice

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:16:12am

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Well, the comments under this one are mixed.

E.g.:

Bart 20 minutes ago
Rest in Peace Ms Houston. My prayers out to your family and friends.
show more show less
Like
3 people liked this. Flag

jamest297 8 minutes ago in reply to Bart
Do you think she is going to be reading this?
show more show less
Like
Flag

boxmaker2 4 minutes ago in reply to jamest297
If they don't get Fox News in heaven, how could they call it "heaven"? ;-)
show more show less
Like
Flag

jamest297 3 minutes ago in reply to boxmaker2
Right on!

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I'll see if there's another thread.

The Mountain That Blogs Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:17:12am

re: #14 jaunte

To permit religious beliefs to “excuse compliance with otherwise valid laws regulating matters the state is free to regulate,” would, the California Supreme Court wrote in its 2004 decision, quoting from a U.S. Supreme Court case, “‘make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.’”

The best part? Scalia wrote that.

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:17:47am

re: #72 Gus

Oh you'll love this.

20% of Republicans leaning to Obama!

That's how crazy the GOP has become. WND link.

The comments are hilarious.

And honestly, if the GOP decides to keep making this an election about the culture war and social issues, they're going to lose badly, especially if they end up going on legislative record to deny birth control to people.

Four More Tears Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:18:07am

This is how we fix our economy and grow jobs.

Petero1818 Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:18:21am

re: #5 kirkspencer

Yep. But they're still trying to mask it.

They're not against birth control. They're against interference with the freedom of religion. //

This is how they will fight the fight. They know that going into an election year they cannot argue against birth control. However I think this is an easy argument to counter. It is very simple. Freedom of religion is not an absolute. We do not allow companies or other entities to discriminate based on freedom of religions. A restaurant cannot deny service to African Americans or homosexuals or any other group and claim protection on the basis of freedom of religion. Rights are measured against others. In fact, many of these same people are the ones who argued against the so called ground zero mosque, on the basis that the right to worship should not trump their own right to not be offended. THis is a bizarre freak show, and i do believe the GOP will end up being punished for it. I actually think that Obama has played them here. He knew where they would take this, and now he will expose the freedom of religion defence for exactly what it is.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:19:03am

re: #83 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

Here is probably the thread Charles was talking about, with 100+ comments:

[Link: nation.foxnews.com...]

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:19:19am

re: #86 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

This is how we fix our economy and grow jobs.

Duh. The more people that are born, the more workers we have down the line, especially once the GOP guts child labor laws.

See? JOBS!

The Mountain That Blogs Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:19:41am

Actually, never mind. Scalia was quoting a much earlier decision. Darn.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:19:55am

re: #88 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

BIack people destroyed Whitney Houston.

They said she was "Too White".
They said she was " Not R&B"
They said she was a "Sell Out"

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:20:12am

re: #86 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

This is how we fix our economy and grow jobs.

1) This is how God's law would have it
2)
3) Economy!

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:20:15am

Speaking of hormones--this is the emotional type Mr. Santorum is worried about:

Image: 81232967.jpg

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:20:43am

re: #91 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

However, lots of positive comments too.

blueraven Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:22:14am

re: #64 Charles Johnson

There's another unbelievable deluge of open racism at Fox News, in the comments for their article on Whitney Houston.

I saw one last night, that didn't even try to get around the mods.

Drugs and n*****s...tsk tsk.

The N-word was completely spelled out. I reported it, but it was still there several hours later.

Petero1818 Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:22:15am

re: #65 erik_t

But... they're not. Again, 98-99% of women use or have used birth control. So what the shit is the leadership thinking?

They will not even mention birth control, except as an example. This will be about freedom of religion, or to be more specific, freedom of religion for worshippers of Jesus. Because lets be honest, these very same people have at every turn, argued against freedom of religion for Muslims as well as others. Anti sharia family courts, anti face covering, anti ground zero mosque, anti butterball.

Obdicut Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:23:15am

re: #93 Decatur Deb

And an older-school version:

Image: 3212865276_da1f465b41.jpg

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:23:20am

GOP Continues To Oppose Contraception Coverage Plan Now Supported By Large Catholic Institutions

The U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops almost immediately rejected a compromise on requiring contraception coverage that the Obama administration announced on Friday, and Republicans have continued to attack the accommodation. Under the compromise, religious institutions will not be required to provide contraceptive coverage because insurers will provide contraception directly to employees at no cost, completely removing religious institutions from the equation. But this deal was not enough to satisfy conservative opposition.

On ABC’s This Week, Rep. Paul Ryan echoed the Republican objection of contraception coverage. Ryan told host George Stephanopolous the compromise is nothing more than a “fig leaf” and an “accounting trick”.

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:24:17am

re: #95 blueraven

Do they have any moderators on comments at Fox News? It seems like something they'd regard as a needless expense. Their comment threads are as bad as Youtube.

100

Four More Tears Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:25:18am

re: #88 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

Try this one.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

xm501e3 1 hour ago in reply to steveaustin1971
elvis was white...and elvis did not showcase his downfall on reality tv.

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

jackumup 2 hours ago
unfortunately like most nignog crack hoes she was able to apply her trade on "da streets"
show more show less

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I could go on...

101

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:25:43am

re: #98 Lidane
Now they are above religion. Oy vey.

102

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:26:24am

re: #42 kirkspencer

While for a long time I referred to it as zealotry, I've recently been describing it as gideonism. That's the principle that if you're pure enough, God will ensure your victory. Same principle, different framing (Gideon's example was a war/battle situation).

Nevermind that for gideonism to work, democracy must fail.

American Exceeptionalism: we enjoy a special status in the eyes of the Lord because we reflect (their interpretation of) His Divine Will in our laws. Once we start allowing abortion, contraception, gay marriage, gays in the military, etc., we will fall from his grace.

103

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:26:27am

re: #98 Lidane

Ryan told host George Stephanopolous the compromise is nothing more than a “fig leaf” and an “accounting trick”.

I wish they would press him on that and ask 'exactly how is it a trick?'

104

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:26:59am

re: #102 Keynesian Kenyan

American Exceeptionalism: we enjoy a special status in the eyes of the Lord because we reflect (their interpretation of) His Divine Will in our laws. Once we start allowing abortion, contraception, gay marriage, gays in the military, etc., we will fall from his grace.

Magical thinking at its very finest.

105

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:27:21am

re: #100 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Try this one.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I could go on...

Oh brother. More dumb RWNJs. Elvis's downfall saw a lot of coverage at the time on broadcast television. Obviously there was no "reality TV" at the time. Had Elvis been around today... well you know the conclusion.

106

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:28:33am

Ladies and gents, the current Republican front-runner:

Santorum Says 'There's No Compromise' On Contraception Rule

107

Four More Tears Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:29:01am

re: #105 Gus

Many of them are using Whitney's death to attack Obama. Not because of race or anything...

108

Ming Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:29:08am

Just saw this:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Even in the ultrapolarized atmosphere of Capitol Hill, it should be possible to secure broad bipartisan agreement on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act, the 1994 law at the center of the nation’s efforts to combat domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking. The law’s renewal has strong backing from law enforcement and groups that work with victims, and earlier reauthorizations of the law, in 2000 and 2005, passed Congress with strong support from both sides of the aisle.

"Yet not a single Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee voted in favor last week..."

109

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:30:21am

re: #107 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Many of them are using Whitney's death to attack Obama. Not because of race or anything...

Yep. See Lee Atwater's infamous statement. No change with the rightists.

110

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:30:28am

re: #108 Ming

Trying to hang on to the stalker vote.

111

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:30:52am

re: #108 Ming

Just saw this:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

That's how determined the GOP are to destroy Barack Obama. Not only will they vote to deny birth control coverage to everyone, but they will also refuse to re-authorize a landmark domestic violence bill.

Fucking crazy. They've gone off the rails entirely.

112

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:30:52am

re: #100 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

That's the one I posted first. Actually, it has more comments than the second, but I noticed it only later ("Load more comments" button).

With that button I see comments like

lemmy17 50 minutes ago
A tragedy is when someones passes away from a terminal disease or something else that no one saw coming.Whitney is just an inferior lo w life ni gg er that needed to go,no tragedy,no loss

113

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:31:45am

re: #111 Lidane

That is exactly it. They have gone bonkers.

114

Four More Tears Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:32:57am

re: #112 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

Yeah, it's really ugly in there. You would probably see less animosity at Stormfront.

115

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:34:14am

re: #112 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

That's the one I posted first. Actually, it has more comments than the second, but I noticed it only later ("Load more comments" button).

With that button I see comments like

You wear gloves when you go spelunking in that comment section, right?

116

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:34:51am

Commonweal is an old, highly respected Jesuit magazine. It has always managed to show a progressive, thoughtful, face of Catholicism and still stay (just) inside the good graces of the Church. Here is one of their takes on the USCCB rejection of the President's compromise position.

(Somewhat long)

[Link: www.commonwealmagazine.org...]

117

erik_t Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:35:12am

re: #112 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

I love the clever breaking-up of the word 'low'. So habitually comfortable with space-breaking offensive language that they don't even think anymore, just start peppering in spaces when they say something they know is nasty. Like holding down shift to get capital letters.

118

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:35:45am

re: #114 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Yeah, it's really ugly in there. You would probably see less animosity at Stormfront.

For fairness' sake, at least some of those get pushback.
But it's out of control, yes.

119

Four More Tears Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:36:44am

re: #118 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

I mean, really...

Jess 2 hours ago
AT LEAST SHE NEVER BLEACHED HER SKIN, PURCHASED WHITE BABIES AND PRETENDED TO BE A WHITE PERSON...!!

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

120

blueraven Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:37:27am

re: #95 blueraven

I saw one last night, that didn't even try to get around the mods.

Drugs and n***s...tsk tsk.

The N-word was completely spelled out. I reported it, but it was still there several hours later.

It's still there, 13 hrs later with 4 likes

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Image: foxracist.jpg

121

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:37:46am

re: #119 A Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow

Not_Phyllis 2 hours ago
Wow. Didn't take long for the rascist @zzholes to show their true *colors*.

122

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:40:16am

re: #116 Decatur Deb

That piece addresses the 'fungible money' point I was wondering about:

If the bishops want to argue, as some critics already are, that they’re funding contraception by virtue of paying an insurance company at all, then they have committed themselves to a position at odds with their own practice. The premise of such a criticism is that money is fungible. Any dollar I give to an insurer — even for a policy that does not include contraception — could be used to offset the cost of providing such services as a separate policy. (That is the same argument the USCCB used to oppose the Affordable Care Act’s mechanism for handling abortion funding.) But of course bishops are currently doing just that — paying, say, Aetna for plans excluding contraception and abortion, while Aetna covers those services for other enrollees. Yet we have not heard a peep objecting to the arrangement.

123

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:41:25am

drakenfly 2 hours ago
[an extremely offensive comment]
boxmaker2 2 hours ago in reply to drakenfly
What a sick POS you are.

drakenfly 2 hours ago in reply to boxmaker2
Thank you...its a compliment coming from a Obamaballsacsucker...

boxmaker2 1 hour ago in reply to drakenfly
Hardly. I'd rather KICK his ballz, if he has any.

sy4east 2 hours ago in reply to drakenfly
Spoken like a TRUE right winger.

boxmaker2 1 hour ago in reply to sy4east
No. I'M a right winger. Drakenfly is just a POS bigot.

drakenfly 1 hour ago in reply to boxmaker2
You libfucktards are sooo cute when yur mad...

FUR SURE......

That kinda illustrates what's going on in the comments there.

124

sagehen Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:43:10am

So I suppose Obama is looking at 65%-70% of the women's vote this fall?

125

PhillyPretzel Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:43:59am

re: #124 sagehen
He might get more at this rate.

126

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:44:05am

re: #123 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

Of course, why anyone would want to be in such a poorly moderated cesspool in the first place is a different question.

127

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:44:30am

re: #124 sagehen

So I suppose Obama is looking at 65%-70% of the women's vote this fall?

Give the GOP time. That number could go up between now and November.

128

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:44:35am

Lunch--BBL (pasta w/ home grown mushroom sauce.)

129

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:44:38am

re: #124 sagehen

So I suppose Obama is looking at 65%-70% of the women's vote this fall?

But he's going to lose 100% of the Bishop vote.

130

kirkspencer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:44:44am

re: #125 PhillyPretzel

He might get more at this rate.

Probably not. 27% seems to show up so very, very often.

131

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:45:12am

re: #128 Decatur Deb

Lunch--BBL (pasta w/ home grown mushroom sauce.)

Medical mushroom sauce?

132

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:46:51am

Broken clock?

EXCLUSIVE: Conservative Board Unanimously Condemned Gaffney’s ‘Reprehensible’ And ‘Unfounded’ Attacks

133

Gus Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:48:02am

Yikes! Charles found a ton. --->

134

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:49:39am

re: #132 Gus

Not because he's an islamophobic whackjob, but because he criticized Norquist.

135

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:50:18am

re: #134 jaunte

this

136

Feline Fearless Leader Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:50:54am

re: #116 Decatur Deb

Commonweal is an old, highly respected Jesuit magazine. It has always managed to show a progressive, thoughtful, face of Catholicism and still stay (just) inside the good graces of the Church. Here is one of their takes on the USCCB rejection of the President's compromise position.

(Somewhat long)

[Link: www.commonwealmagazine.org...]

Interesting article.

On the fungible dollar front (e.g. any insurance dollar being used to offset funding for something immoral even if not used for that directly - thus you get the separate accounting by abortion services to account for the Hyde Amendment) why isn't the USCCB as concerned about keeping track of how dollars are used to pay for settlements regarding sexual abuse by priests?

If they weren't being huge hypocrites they'd want those settlements in their own fund so that tithes by innocent church-goers aren't used to offset the results of illegal and immoral activity.
/

I noticed that the comments on that article went directly into propaganda war mode. I think civil discourse in this country has become an endangered species.

137

Achilles Tang Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:51:10am

re: #65 erik_t

But... they're not. Again, 98-99% of women use or have used birth control. So what the shit is the leadership thinking?

And the men they have sex with aren't "using" it as well....?///

138

sagehen Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:52:12am

re: #50 jaunte

This old fool looks so happy with his clever plan.
Image: rollcallpix062347-mcconnell_036_100411-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

It's easy for him -- women (including even his wife, I'm sure) have no difficultly controlling their carnal urges in his presence.

139

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:53:28am

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Speaking of hormones--this is the emotional type Mr. Santorum is worried about:

Image: 81232967.jpg

Damn right, Skippy. Saved that image.

140

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:59:07am

Analysis: Obama pitches middle while GOP eyes base

The dustup over contraception underscored President Barack Obama's political edge in working to attract independent voters without alienating his Democratic base. His Republican rivals are forced to keep emphasizing their conservative credentials to attract the right-leaning activists who dominate the nominating contests.

It's a dynamic that usually plays out when a president seeks re-election without a primary challenger, and the other party fights to determine its nominee.

Obama already is in general-election mode, with the luxury of courting voters who don't ascribe to a political party. The eventual Republican nominee is moving to the right and probably will have to edge back toward the center in the fall. The farther he must go to the fringe to win the nod, however, the tougher his task.

141

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 12, 2012 11:11:52am

re: #131 Gus

Medical mushroom sauce?

//

Oyster mushrooms--a friend gave us oyster and shitake kits for Christmas.

142

skidancer Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:06:26pm

This is a rather more complex issue than you seem to make it Charles. As one who detests the outlawing of contraception or abortion. The people who want to outlaw it really hate human beings, in my opinion.

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease - which is what health insurance covering contraception is. If we declare that contraception must be covered by health insurance, then I want my healthful meals covered, as well as my gym membership. Oh, and my condoms as well. Might as well throw in my meditation classes and my vacation as mental health imperatives.

Or are you admitting that, as a society, we have reached the point where risky behavior is accepted with no thought to the consequences? Are you claiming that this is a measure for the poorer classes who can't afford birth control. Well that really is a slippery slope of social engineering. So my hard work, which includes my student loans (including graduate school) that I didn't default on, and my mortgage that I saved for and bust my butt to pay for and go without luxuries means that I'm just a poor shmuck for working hard and having to support those factions of society that believe that they have no choice but to be with a man? Where is the responsibility?

How about this? Contraception clinics. If someone can't afford contraception, then they have to go to school (the gov't will provide meals and child care) so that they will be able to have a chance at a job. and they get free contraception while they attend class and maintain a "B" GPA. I'd go for that.

143

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:11:03pm

re: #142 skidancer

Not everything health-related is a disease. Duh.

144

Coracle Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:18:04pm

re: #142 skidancer

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease - which is what health insurance covering contraception is.

That's a false premise, thus the rest of your argument has nothing to stand on.

145

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:25:44pm

re: #142 skidancer

This is a rather more complex issue than you seem to make it Charles. As one who detests the outlawing of contraception or abortion. The people who want to outlaw it really hate human beings, in my opinion.

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease - which is what health insurance covering contraception is. If we declare that contraception must be covered by health insurance, then I want my healthful meals covered, as well as my gym membership. Oh, and my condoms as well. Might as well throw in my meditation classes and my vacation as mental health imperatives.

Or are you admitting that, as a society, we have reached the point where risky behavior is accepted with no thought to the consequences? Are you claiming that this is a measure for the poorer classes who can't afford birth control. Well that really is a slippery slope of social engineering. So my hard work, which includes my student loans (including graduate school) that I didn't default on, and my mortgage that I saved for and bust my butt to pay for and go without luxuries means that I'm just a poor shmuck for working hard and having to support those factions of society that believe that they have no choice but to be with a man? Where is the responsibility?

How about this? Contraception clinics. If someone can't afford contraception, then they have to go to school (the gov't will provide meals and child care) so that they will be able to have a chance at a job. and they get free contraception while they attend class and maintain a "B" GPA. I'd go for that.

I'm sorry, but the 'pregnancy isn't a disease' argument is stupid and doesn't fly.

If contraception shouldn't be covered because "pregnancy isn't a disease", and therefore shouldn't be addressed by health coverage, then employers and healthcare plans should certainly not have to provide prenatal care, or any kind of birth services. After all, these women are not sick! They're healthy!

As for your bullshit about 'contraception clinics', and how HAAARD you work, I don't know where you get this fantasy that this is about 'social engineering' or 'the lower classes'. This is about average working Americans. I've had healthcare coverage through the jobs I've worked, which I had to go to college and through a graduate program to get, all my life. Can you explain to me, without bullshit, why I should accept that I have to pay extra, or get separate coverage for a basic prescription that a huge number of American women use? Why this should be the ONLY prescription I have to go to extra lengths to get, out of the entire range of normal everyday health maintenance?

146

jaunte Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:32:27pm

For best health, avoid the logic classes at Galt's Gulch U.

147

Dark_Falcon Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:33:44pm

re: #142 skidancer

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease - which is what health insurance covering contraception is.

My response to your strawman argument:

Youtube Video

148

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:40:23pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sorry, but the 'pregnancy isn't a disease' argument is stupid and doesn't fly.

If contraception shouldn't be covered because "pregnancy isn't a disease", and therefore shouldn't be addressed by health coverage, then employers and healthcare plans should certainly not have to provide prenatal care, or any kind of birth services. After all, these women are not sick! They're healthy!

As for your bullshit about 'contraception clinics', and how HAAARD you work, I don't know where you get this fantasy that this is about 'social engineering' or 'the lower classes'. This is about average working Americans. I've had healthcare coverage through the jobs I've worked, which I had to go to college and through a graduate program to get, all my life. Can you explain to me, without bullshit, why I should accept that I have to pay extra, or get separate coverage for a basic prescription that a huge number of American women use? Why this should be the ONLY prescription I have to go to extra lengths to get, out of the entire range of normal everyday health maintenance?

(Adding to this, because I'm pissed. Hoping what I write will not be seen in any way as an attack on the very poor.)

What you wrote was a personal attack on me, and most of the women on this forum, and the men who are married to women, and the men who know women.

First, a note: The 'lower classes', by which you seem to mean people who are unemployable and have no schooling, can often apply for Medicaid, which covers birth control. In real life, removing birth control from insurance affects the working poor and the middle class, who commonly rely on their employers for health insurance.

Like your saintly self, I also went to school, work, and have student debt to pay. For you to act as though because I want my health insurance to cover my basic healthcare needs, I'm uneducated, unable to work, or that I 'believe that I have no choice but to be with a man' makes me pretty damn angry. I sure don't believe that last, but you know, I'm kind of fond of my husband, and would appreciate being able to have sex with him without us creating more children than we can afford to feed, clothe and educate on our salaries.

Now, I've worked for Catholic agencies for a number of years, and I've dealt with the way my employers handled birth control coverage, and I can see some nuance in this issue. But you, with your 'oh, I'm middle class, am I a dumb schmuck for working hard' crap, you've made me mad.

I've worked my ass off in every job I've ever had, and you do not get to paint me as some dumb bint who wants a government handout just for wanting to get my full wage, which at most jobs includes health coverage.

Goddamn it!!

149

allegro Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:52:06pm

re: #142 skidancer

This is a rather more complex issue than you seem to make it Charles. As one who detests the outlawing of contraception or abortion. The people who want to outlaw it really hate human beings, in my opinion.

No, it's actually quite simple. Insurance coverage for prescription meds must now include prescription contraception as well throughout the country just as it has been required for about a decade in 28 states. Providing it with no co-pay makes it more affordable and available to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease - which is what health insurance covering contraception is.

Nope. Pregnancy is a health condition. Hormonal birth control requires medical supervision making it a health issue as well. Viagra is another such prescription medication that has always been covered. Is a limp dick a disease?

If we declare that contraception must be covered by health insurance, then I want my healthful meals covered, as well as my gym membership. Oh, and my condoms as well. Might as well throw in my meditation classes and my vacation as mental health imperatives.

Some insurance policies do cover mental health services.

Or are you admitting that, as a society, we have reached the point where risky behavior is accepted with no thought to the consequences?

Sex between a husband and wife is risky behavior? You do understand that many (most perhaps?) women who use birth control do so to plan their families, having only the children they can afford and that they can care for.

Are you claiming that this is a measure for the poorer classes who can't afford birth control. Well that really is a slippery slope of social engineering.

Do you know how much money birth control pills cost? Have you been reading the news for the past, oh, three years so to learn how the recession has affected millions of formerly middle class families?

So my hard work, which includes my student loans (including graduate school) that I didn't default on, and my mortgage that I saved for and bust my butt to pay for and go without luxuries means that I'm just a poor shmuck for working hard and having to support those factions of society that believe that they have no choice but to be with a man?

Translated: Those dirty sluts need to keep their legs closed!

Where is the responsibility?

It is in using birth control and preventing unwanted pregnancies.

How about this? Contraception clinics. If someone can't afford contraception, then they have to go to school (the gov't will provide meals and child care) so that they will be able to have a chance at a job. and they get free contraception while they attend class and maintain a "B" GPA. I'd go for that.

Yes, how about that? Then you'll be screaming about having to spend your oh-so-hard-earned responsible money to pay for the education of dirty sluts who can't keep their legs closed. Right?

Asshole.

150

Lidane Sun, Feb 12, 2012 12:52:37pm

re: #142 skidancer

Obvious troll is obvious.

151

wrenchwench Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:00:28pm

re: #142 skidancer

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease

It's more like a parasitic infestation. Not just my opinion, but that of some glad-to-be-pregnant women I've known.

The people who want to outlaw it really hate human beings, in my opinion.

Looks like you only hate the poor ones.

152

sda112 Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:14:47pm

re: #3 Lidane

I can't believe that the Republican party is declaring war on birth control in 2012. WTF.

1. Ban Abortion

2. Ban birth control

3. Ban women's right to vote

153

TedStriker Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:20:13pm

re: #123 ლ(*ڡ*ლ)

That kinda illustrates what's going on in the comments there.

DURR HURR HURR

/bleccch

154

TedStriker Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:22:22pm

re: #142 skidancer

Oh, look...a 4.5-year-old nick with all of 15 posts to your credit.

I wonder whose sock this is?

155

TedStriker Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:23:26pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist

(Adding to this, because I'm pissed. Hoping what I write will not be seen in any way as an attack on the very poor.)

What you wrote was a personal attack on me, and most of the women on this forum, and the men who are married to women, and the men who know women.

First, a note: The 'lower classes', by which you seem to mean people who are unemployable and have no schooling, can often apply for Medicaid, which covers birth control. In real life, removing birth control from insurance affects the working poor and the middle class, who commonly rely on their employers for health insurance.

Like your saintly self, I also went to school, work, and have student debt to pay. For you to act as though because I want my health insurance to cover my basic healthcare needs, I'm uneducated, unable to work, or that I 'believe that I have no choice but to be with a man' makes me pretty damn angry. I sure don't believe that last, but you know, I'm kind of fond of my husband, and would appreciate being able to have sex with him without us creating more children than we can afford to feed, clothe and educate on our salaries.

Now, I've worked for Catholic agencies for a number of years, and I've dealt with the way my employers handled birth control coverage, and I can see some nuance in this issue. But you, with your 'oh, I'm middle class, am I a dumb schmuck for working hard' crap, you've made me mad.

I've worked my ass off in every job I've ever had, and you do not get to paint me as some dumb bint who wants a government handout just for wanting to get my full wage, which at most jobs includes health coverage.

Goddamn it!!

Nothing but net, SFZ ;-P

156

Decatur Deb Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:31:27pm

This thread is likely to draw some casual readers.

[Link: memeorandum.com...]

157

wrenchwench Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:40:09pm

re: #142 skidancer

I thought I had downdinged you in the past. I had company.

By the way, are you still an AGW denier?

158

wrenchwench Sun, Feb 12, 2012 1:42:31pm

re: #156 Decatur Deb

This thread is likely to draw some casual readers.

[Link: memeorandum.com...]

Irrelevant!

159

bubba zanetti Sun, Feb 12, 2012 3:02:48pm

re: #149 allegro

Translated: Those dirty sluts need to keep their legs closed!

Unless they be makin' my hard-working ass a sammich!

160

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 12, 2012 3:10:36pm

re: #152 sda112

1. Ban Abortion

2. Ban birth control

3. Ban women's right to vote

The left has long believed that this is the war that the conservative movement has wanted to fight for a long time. It's not just abortion, it's all reproductive rights and control for women. They have always hidden behind a veil, but now it's come down. They can't help themselves and are showing their true colors. Markos was right, they are the American Taliban.

161

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Feb 12, 2012 3:19:48pm

re: #142 skidancer

This is a rather more complex issue than you seem to make it Charles. As one who detests the outlawing of contraception or abortion. The people who want to outlaw it really hate human beings, in my opinion.

However, I marvel at the fact that pregnancy is now to be treated as a disease - which is what health insurance covering contraception is. If we declare that contraception must be covered by health insurance, then I want my healthful meals covered, as well as my gym membership. Oh, and my condoms as well. Might as well throw in my meditation classes and my vacation as mental health imperatives.

Or are you admitting that, as a society, we have reached the point where risky behavior is accepted with no thought to the consequences? Are you claiming that this is a measure for the poorer classes who can't afford birth control. Well that really is a slippery slope of social engineering. So my hard work, which includes my student loans (including graduate school) that I didn't default on, and my mortgage that I saved for and bust my butt to pay for and go without luxuries means that I'm just a poor shmuck for working hard and having to support those factions of society that believe that they have no choice but to be with a man? Where is the responsibility?

How about this? Contraception clinics. If someone can't afford contraception, then they have to go to school (the gov't will provide meals and child care) so that they will be able to have a chance at a job. and they get free contraception while they attend class and maintain a "B" GPA. I'd go for that.

No one is saying that pregnancy is a disease you moron. But it most certainly is a condition that warrants medical treatment. You ever heard of prenatal care? Why do you think that prenatal care is necessary? You ever heard of gestational diabetes? Or how about preeclampsia? Or miscarriages and pre-term labor? Or C-sections? Are you seriously suggesting that there are no health risks associated with pregnancy that aren't to be taken into consideration by a woman before or when she gets pregnant? You do know that before the modern age and still all over the world women die from child baring? Every woman takes a risk with her health when she gets pregnant.

There is a reason why we think people on the other side of this debate are stupid and mean. Every argument you make reveals your ignorance and lack of empathy.

162

wrenchwench Sun, Feb 12, 2012 3:48:50pm

re: #161 moderatelyradicalliberal

There is a reason why we think people on the other side of this debate are stupid and mean. Every argument you make reveals your ignorance and lack of empathy.

QFT

163

labman57 Sun, Feb 12, 2012 6:30:47pm

Traditional family values according to sanctimonious, Bible-beating, chest-thumping conservative pundits and politicians: unplanned pregnancies by unwed teenaged girls.

Of course, the irony is that many women take birth control pills as a means to regulate hormonal imbalances, not for preventing pregnancy per se. Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to deny health coverage for blood transfusions and organ transplants?

164

Leo3 Sun, Feb 12, 2012 8:23:00pm

I wonder what kind of coverage you could get from a Christian Scientist...

165

skidancer Mon, Feb 13, 2012 1:16:29pm

re: #161 moderatelyradicalliberal

Isn't comparing prenatal care to birth control a false equality? The former is a health issue with not one but another potential life at stake. The latter is ..., well I'm unsure as to what it really is. Perhaps it's similar to having my health insurance pay for pepto-bismal after I eat 5 alarm chili in order to prevent a perfection natural biological reaction to the ingestion of capsaicin. So now everyone on Charles' list is going to go off on another flame. The only replies have essentially been that i am (1) an a***hole and that (2) I am going off on the lower classes.

Re: #1, I may be - I dunno.
Re: #2, What's wrong with me writing that life is about choices and one has to make them? Well I guess that we can refer back to #1.

Nowhere in these replies have encountered a logical argument about what health insurance is supposed to cover. Well, perhaps I missed it. And I also wrote that I'm not against health insurance funded contraception as long is it pays for other services that I argue are equivalent.

So it seems, Charles, that there's as much logic on one side as the other. And how does this help to heal this country if there's no room for reasoned debate? Of course the contraception point of view from the right is just as emotional and there doesn't seem to be any debating with them either.

166

jaunte Mon, Feb 13, 2012 2:25:32pm

re: #165 skidancer

Why don't you start by saying what you think health insurance should cover. If you think contraception is equivalent to something else, make a case for why that is.

167

Obdicut Mon, Feb 13, 2012 2:28:14pm

re: #165 skidancer

Isn't comparing prenatal care to birth control a false equality?

Nope. Very similar.

The former is a health issue with not one but another potential life at stake.

Well, it's got one life, one or more potential lives, sure. But why on earth would that make what we cover with insurance different? Most of what insurance covers is a health issue with one person.

The latter is ..., well I'm unsure as to what it really is. Perhaps it's similar to having my health insurance pay for pepto-bismal after I eat 5 alarm chili in order to prevent a perfection natural biological reaction to the ingestion of capsaicin.

Or like it covering an acid-reflux medication. Which it does. So, I'm glad you understand that these medications are simple, everyday ones which should be covered under health insurance.

Do you understand how you just disproved your own argument?

168

Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 13, 2012 8:23:05pm

re: #165 skidancer

GAZE

Spy Mode Auto

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