Denialgate: Internal Heartland Institute Documents Unmask the Climate Denial Machine

A big blow to the denial machine’s secret plans

Wow, this is huge — DeSmogBlog is releasing a cache of documents revealing the secret anti-science schemes of climate change denial front group The Heartland Institute: Heartland Institute Exposed: Internal Documents Unmask Heart of Climate Denial Machine.

Internal Heartland Institute strategy and funding documents obtained by DeSmogBlog expose the heart of the climate denial machine – its current plans, many of its funders, and details that confirm what DeSmogBlog and others have reported for years. The heart of the climate denial machine relies on huge corporate and foundation funding from U.S. businesses including Microsoft, Koch Industries, Altria (parent company of Philip Morris) RJR Tobacco and more.

We are releasing the entire trove of documents now to allow crowd-sourcing of the material. Here are a few quick highlights, stay tuned for much more.

-Confirmation that Charles G. Koch Foundation is again funding Heartland Institute’s global warming disinformation campaign. Greenpeace’s Koch reports show the last time Heartland received Koch funding was in 1999

The January 2012 Confidential Memo: 2012 Heartland Climate Strategy states:

“We will also pursue additional support from the Charles G. Koch Foundation. They returned as a Heartland donor in 2011 with a contribution of $200,000. We expect to push up their level of support in 2012 and gain access to their network of philanthropists, if our focus continues to align with their interests. Other contributions will be pursued for this work, especially from corporations whose interests are threatened by climate policies.”

-Heartland Institute’s global warming denial machine is chiefly – and perhaps entirely – funded by one Anonymous donor:

Our climate work is attractive to funders, especially our key Anonymous Donor (whose contribution dropped from $1,664,150 in 2010 to $979,000 in 2011 - about 20% of our total 2011 revenue). He has promised an increase in 2012…”

-Confirmation of exact amounts flowing to certain key climate contrarians.

“funding for high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist AGW message. At the moment, this funding goes primarily to Craig Idso ($11,600 per month), Fred Singer ($5,000 per month, plus expenses), Robert Carter ($1,667 per month), and a number of other individuals, but we will consider expanding it, if funding can be found.”

-As Brad Johnson reported today at ThinkProgress, confirmation that Heartland is working with David Wojick, a U.S. Energy Department contract worker and coal industry consultant, to develop a ‘Global Warming Curriculum for K-12 Schools.’

-Forbes and other business press are favored outlets for Heartland’s dissemination of climate denial messages, and the group is worried about maintaining that exclusive space. They note in particular the work of Dr. Peter Gleick:

“Efforts at places such as Forbes are especially important now that they have begun to allow high-profile climate scientists (such as Gleick) to post warmist science essays that counter our own. This influential audience has usually been reliably anti-climate and it is important to keep opposing voices out.” (emphasis added)

Note the irony here that Heartland Institute – one of the major mouthpieces behind the debunked ‘Climategate’ email theft who harped about the suppression of denier voices in peer-reviewed literature – now defending its turf in the unscientific business magazine realm.

Jump to bottom

584 comments
1 b_sharp  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:48:43pm

If this isn't disseminated far and wide we'll have lost a perfect opportunity.

3 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:55:13pm

Wow, not much question about their intent, based on the language.
Not 'attempt to duplicate the results' or even 'question', just flat out 'undermine' the IPCC reports.

Funding for parallel organizations.
Heartland is part of a growing network of groups working the climate issues, some of which we support financially. We will seek additional partnerships in 2012. At present we sponsor the NIPCC to undermine the official United Nation's IPCC reports and paid a team of writers $388,000 in 2011 to work on a series of editions of Climate Change Reconsidered. Expenses will be about the same in 2012. NIPCC is currently funded by two gifts a year from two foundations, both of them requesting anonymity. Another $88,000 is earmarked this year for Heartland staff,
incremental expenses, and overhead for editing, expense reimbursement for the authors, and marketing.

4 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:56:18pm

So does that make this Climategaters-gate?

5 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:57:18pm

The old tobacco lobby seems to be a multi-purpose skeleton where they hang the merde d' jour. It features in the most astroturfed parts of the Tea Party origins.

And Microsoft? another reason to love Linux.

6 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:57:23pm

re: #3 jaunte

Their intent has been clear all along: to obfuscate the issue sufficiently to prevent governments/societies from acting in ways that would cost their sponsors' power and money.

7 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:58:08pm
Funding for selected individuals outside of Heartland.
Our current budget includes funding for high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist AGW message. At the moment, this funding goes primarily to Craig Idso ($11,600 per month), Fred Singer ($5,000 per month, plus expenses), Robert Carter ($1,667 per month), and a number of other individuals, but we will consider expanding it, if funding can be found.

Craig D. Idso is Chairman, founder and former President of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, a contrarian Arizona-based group funded in part by ExxonMobil.
[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

8 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:59:14pm

Chicago-style climate deniers...

9 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 7:59:25pm

ClimateProgress has an excellent write-up on this as well:

And no real science communicator would agree to a plan aimed at thwarting science education (as laid out in the strategy document):

“His effort will focus on providing curriculum that shows that the topic of climate change is controversial and uncertain – two key points that are effective at dissuading teachers from teaching science.

"Dissuade teachers from teaching science"? That's the most honest statement they've ever made :P

10 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:01:37pm

Ah yes. Heartland. Part of the Republican Party Preventive Care system. Keep people smoking and ignore the risks because it maintain high morbidity rates which helps keep extended entitlement program costs down. By letting people die sooner.

//I couldn't resist.

11 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:02:18pm

I'm going to step back for a while. For work reasons, I'm not going to comment on this thread's topic. I'll be back a little later.

12 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:02:45pm

"it is important to keep opposing voices out"

Expanded climate communications
Heartland plays an important role in climate communications, especially through our in-house experts (e.g., Taylor) through his Forbes blog and related high profile outlets, our conferences, and through coordination with external networks (such as WUWT and other groups capable of rapidly mobilizing responses to new scientific findings, news stories, or unfavorable blog posts). Efforts at places such as Forbes are especially important now that they have begun to allow highprofile climate scientists (such as Gleick) to post warmist science essays that counter our own. This influential audience has usually been reliably anti-climate and it is important to keep opposing voices out. Efforts might also include cultivating more neutral voices with big audiences (such as Revkin at DotEarth/NYTimes, who has a well-known antipathy for some of the more extreme AGW communicators such as Rornm, Trenberth, and Hansen) or Curry (who has become popular with our supporters). AVe have also pledged to help raise around $90,000 in 2012 for Anthony Watts to help him create a new website to track temperature station data.

13 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:03:37pm

Watts Up With Shill

14 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:05:28pm

'Nite, all.

15 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:11:33pm

Let me guess, the right is going to claim this was some kind of George Soros funded hacker attack meant to damage them and the denialist message by liberal socialist communist tree huggers.

16 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:12:29pm

Also, anyone else notice how eerily similar the "teach the controversy" approach is with both AGW AND Creationism?

The two terms are practically interchangeable almost all the time.

17 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:12:44pm

re: #13 jaunte

Watts Up With Shill

Speaking of which, for general amusement purposes, here's a trip down memory lane (i.e. Heartland shill Jim Lakely shows up on LGF page, gets butt promptly handed to self)

18 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:13:10pm

Ironic that they call themselves "Heartland." Is this what the "Heartland" wants? I mean when the farmers aren't busy getting farm subsidies. The word connotes farming and people of the soil. Not big fat cat corporations. It's absurd. And once again these so called conservatives are taking advantage of more simpler folks for their own financial gain. They could care less about the people. They could care less about small farmers. Everything is one big dollar sign for these manipulative political predators.

19 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:13:11pm

As insightful as this leak is... and as powerfully damning the evidence is... I still expect the usual suspects to continue on as if nothing happened.

Repeating myself here - we humans want to be deceived, or at least told little white lies - when needed to protect our self-images (worldviews) and our daily practices in life.

20 Lidane  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:15:12pm

Wasn't there some douche from Heartland who tried posting here and spinning his tall tales?

21 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:16:10pm

re: #18 Gus

Heartland Patriot Families for Freedom

22 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:17:21pm

re: #21 jaunte

Heartland Patriot Families for Freedom

Where do I sign up? Death panels! The Heartland Institute will save our way of life! Derp.

23 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:17:49pm

re: #20 Lidane

Wasn't there some douche from Heartland who tried posting here and spinning his tall tales?

See:

re: #17 Interesting Times

On a "trip do

Speaking of which, for general amusement purposes, here's a trip down memory lane (i.e. Heartland shill Jim Lakely shows up on LGF page, gets butt promptly handed to self)

24 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:18:29pm

re: #20 Lidane

That was Jim Lakely, director of communications at The Heartland Institute.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

25 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:22:36pm

re: #23 freetoken

See:

re: #17 Interesting Times

Sure enough he's a Breitbart tool:

26 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:25:53pm

They're all the same. Scratch a wingnut find a wingnut.

27 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:27:42pm

Heh. No comment from the "director of communications."

It was not possible to immediately verify the authenticity of the documents. "There is nothing I can tell you," Jim Lakely, Heartland's communications director, said in a telephone interview. "We are investigating what we have seen on the internet and we will have more to say in the morning." Lakely made no attempt to deny the veracity of information contained in the documents.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

28 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:28:37pm

If we want to help disseminate this, twitter is good, but those of us with FB and G+ could kick in there too.

29 Ming  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:29:52pm

I was recently privileged to work with a fine young engineer from a former East-bloc country, and I was reminded that the rest of the world is not standing still in the pursuit of scientific knowledge. This guy was really good, and he wasn't trained in America.

I'm not sure how much of a scientific "edge" America has left even today, let alone 10 years from now. Did Iran (or perhaps China) really hack into our unmanned drone and trick it into landing at an Iranian military base? Attacking two important areas of science, evolution and climate change, is a luxury we can't afford.

30 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:31:08pm

The response to Lakely was epic: multiple lizards on multiple tangents.

31 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:33:53pm

re: #30 Kronocide

The response to Lakely was epic: multiple lizards on multiple tangents.

I could hear the lamentations of his women.

32 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:34:04pm

ClimateRapidResponse @ClimateRR

Will @ABCPolitics @CBSNews @msnbc_us @AP @ABCWorldNews cover?
RT @skepticscience: Denialgate covered by @guardian bit.ly/xbgAU6

33 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:34:32pm

re: #31 They're pants, essentially...

I could hear the lamentations of his women.

Why? Because his dinner was getting cold while he was being eviscerated scientifically?

34 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:36:42pm

the new standard oil

35 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:37:21pm

re: #33 No. Just, no.

Why? Because his dinner was getting cold while he was being eviscerated scientifically?

36 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:37:45pm

re: #29 Ming

... Attacking two important areas of science, evolution and climate change, is a luxury we can't afford.

On occasion I'm still interacting with a few creationists, and while it is usually a futile exercise on rare occasions perhaps I can be of use in that arena.

I do not think the outward manifestations - particular attacks on specialty fields of science, in these cases biological systematics and climatology - will by themselves be the cause of a downward spiral in our society's functioning. Rather, beneath the surface, that which is motivating the attacks on the particular scientific understandings, is more important.

In both of these cases the scientific evidence is telling us something we don't want to hear. In the case of evolution the science is telling us that we are indeed, 100%, part of the animal kingdom, and just that. In the case of climate change, the science is telling us that we can't have everything we want and that we are limited. Both attack the religious worldview embedded deeply into the American psyche - that we humans (and especially Americans) are partly supernatural.

37 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:38:00pm
38 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:38:46pm

re: #34 windupbird is in the gravity well

the new standard oil

Which is, not strangely, on the part of XOM, the old Standard Oil.

39 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:39:18pm

re: #35 They're pants, essentially...

[Video]

Jim? I don't care if someone's wong on the internet. I spent forty-five minutes making this dinner, and you get in here and eat it before it goes cold! No, no I don't care if someone has butthurt. You're going to have butthurt in a minute.

40 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:42:10pm

re: #37 jaunte

Dimwitted diversionary response:
Warmist headbangers go ape over Heartland finance leak

They've been working on the financial equivalence meme for a long time. But its structurally supported by conspiracy theory.

41 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:42:35pm

LOL I can see it already: all the people that screamed about " climate gate" will totally deflect and deny and basically do everything they accused others of doing, again without reading nor understanding or just plain quote mining.

Hypocrisy Inception. We're going to go deeper.

42 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:43:14pm

re: #37 jaunte

Dimwitted diversionary response:
Warmist headbangers go ape over Heartland finance leak

Right. And they have David Icke and Alex Jones on their side.

43 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:43:47pm

re: #42 Gus

I just saw your exchange about Icke.

44 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:43:52pm

Stephen Colbert: You see, to Catholics, sex isn't two drunk strangers getting their freak on at closing time. It is the mystical union of two people inspired to create new physical life while God adds a soul in a divine and ineffable threeway. So when you contraception you are not only sinning, you are cockblocking the almighty!

45 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:44:36pm

re: #43 jaunte

I just saw your exchange about Icke.

Thought you would. I forgot about his climate denial freakishness. Apparently he was trying to spread this crap at some OWS gathering.

46 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:44:45pm

re: #9 Interesting Times

ClimateProgress has an excellent write-up on this as well:

"Dissuade teachers from teaching science"? That's the most honest statement they've ever made :P

Actually, I've exchanged many blog comments with David Wojick at Judith Curry's blog.

I have put up a couple of posts asking him to answer to the wording of that document - which says that he's being paid to create curricula that will dissuade teachers from teaching science.

I'll update in this thread if he responds.

47 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:47:22pm

re: #42 Gus

Right. And they have David Icke and Alex Jones on their side.

From that article:

Wow, $1,667 a month for Bob Carter. Totally outrageous! That’s less than the minimum wage (around $2,500 per month),

$30,000 per year is the minimum wage? Really?

48 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:50:02pm

Is this a surprise? Every member of the Viridian Design Movement has known this since, well, at least 1998:

[Link: www.viridiandesign.org...]

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:50:12pm

re: #47 Talking Point Detective

From that article:

$30,000 per year is the minimum wage? Really?

This isn't that hard. There are, on average, 21 working days in a month. In Oregon the minimum wage is $8.50 an hour. 8 hours*21 days*$8.50 = $1,428.

Someone flunked math.

50 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:51:21pm

re: #47 Talking Point Detective

Australian dollars, maybe.

51 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:54:00pm

Australian minimum wage is $15.51 an hour.

52 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:54:23pm

re: #46 Talking Point Detective

Actually, I've exchanged many blog comments with David Wojick at Judith Curry's blog.

Speaking of Judith Curry, isn't she a denier herself? She certainly sounds like one here:

For the most part, participants were well behaved and adhered to Petr Chylek’s strict rules—avoiding inflammatory terms, and steering away from personal attacks and interruptions. The one exception was Judith Curry, who apparently did not get the memo.
...
Her most personal attack was against Michael Mann, who she used to illustrate “uncertainty hiding” by showing a caricature of him standing next to the “uncertainty monster” holding a hockey stick and hidden by a sheet, with the cartoon-Mann saying “what uncertainty?” Next to the cartoon was and image of the cover of the book “The Hockey Stick Illusion: Climategate and the Corruption of Science” illustrated with the multiproxy time series that Mann and his coauthors made famous. Ironically, Mann’s carefully plotted uncertainty bands were not visible on the presentation graphic, just as they were not reproduced in Fred Singer’s NIPCC report. “What uncertainty?” indeed!

53 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:55:38pm

re: #47 Talking Point Detective

From that article:

$30,000 per year is the minimum wage? Really?

Ha ha, $1,667 * (12 months / 2080 work hours) = $9.62/hour. That's higher than even our minimum wage in WA.

And that's assuming he's working 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year, just for Heartland.

54 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:57:42pm

So why is Microsoft interested in funding climate change denial?

55 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:58:15pm

re: #54 jaunte

So why is Microsoft interested in funding climate change denial?

$$

56 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:58:57pm

re: #51 jaunte

Australian minimum wage is $15.51 an hour.

That's $16.65 US, plus they have universal health care.
*adds 'moving to Australia' to post-graduation checklist*

57 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:59:15pm

re: #55 Gus

I mean, I understand the coal Koch brothers interest...

58 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:00:03pm

re: #57 jaunte

I mean, I understand the coal Koch brothers interest...

BALLMER, STEVEN
HUNTS POINT, WA 98004
MICROSOFT CORPORATION/CEO

EVERY REPUBLICAN IS CRUCIAL (ERICPAC)
10/07/2011 2500.00 11971869089

[Link: www.ericpac.com...]

59 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:01:51pm

re: #58 Gus

Large corporations often given to multiple sides, to cover any contingencies, no?

60 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:01:51pm

re: #58 Gus

Oh, yeah. 1% solidarity.
[Link: www.google.com...]

61 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:03:18pm

BALLMER, STEVE
HUNTS POINT, WA 98004
MICROSOFT/CEO

REICHERT, DAVE
VIA FRIENDS OF DAVE REICHERT
06/15/2005 2100.00 25970610057
06/15/2005 2100.00 25970610056
11/07/2007 2300.00 28930357513
06/30/2008 2300.00 28932249681
03/25/2009 2400.00 29933502461
09/30/2011 2500.00 11952642155

But! He supports climate change legislation.

62 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:03:57pm

Looks like the answer was "nein":

[...]


This
is a competition series whose ratings rise or fall each edition based in large measure on the celebrity casting. So you can imagine how sorry ABC must be that former GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain has decided to decline the invitation to appear on “Dancing’s” 14th edition.


[...]

“He can’t dance in an eight count. He can only dance in a nine-count,” an aide for former pizza company big cheese Cain told a disappointed Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Tuesday – a ham-handed reference to Cain’s oft-derided 9-9-9 tax plan.

63 jaunte  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:04:31pm

Well, it will be an interesting news morning tomorrow.

Happy Valentine's Day, Lizardia.

64 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:05:02pm

re: #52 Interesting Times

Speaking of Judith Curry, isn't she a denier herself? She certainly sounds like one here:

I tend to stay away from the term "denier" unless I have what I consider to be conclusive evidence.

I challenge her regularly with what I consider to be bias in her take on the climate change debate.

She rarely answers my challenges. In my view, that is not to her credit.

65 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:05:09pm

re: #59 freetoken

Large corporations often given to multiple sides, to cover any contingencies, no?

Maybe they support certain issues Heartland represents?

66 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:06:50pm

re: #65 Gus

I suspect they just want to influence who is ever part of the "club".

Just because you join a country club doesn't mean you agree with everything all the other members believe. However, all members agree it is good to be part of the same club.

67 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:07:12pm

re: #54 jaunte

So why is Microsoft interested in funding climate change denial?

I was wondering that, too. The company itself is pretty philanthropic to "good" causes (i.e., not Heartland), but I've known some engineers/programmers that are COMPLETELY CRAZY on anything outside their field of expertise. I could totally see Microsoft indirectly being tied to it through prominent employees making big donations, but Microsoft themselves would surprise me.

As an example, I knew this computer programer/aircraft engineer who was brilliant in those fields, but who also was founder of a TEA Party group in Western WA and promoted the idea that it would be cheaper to scrap mass transit entirely and instead use nothing but private taxi cabs to replace buses.

68 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:07:43pm

re: #66 freetoken

I suspect they just want to influence who is ever part of the "club".

Just because you join a country club doesn't mean you agree with everything all the other members believe. However, all members agree it is good to be part of the same club.

Yep. The best bullshit money can buy. Welcome to Murica!

69 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:08:33pm

re: #50 jaunte

Australian dollars, maybe.

Maybe - but even still it would underline their ineptitude. They're not talking about paying Carter in Australian currency.

They think they can debate the science of climate change, but they don't even convert currencies when they make calculations.

70 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:08:57pm

re: #66 freetoken

I suspect they just want to influence who is ever part of the "club".

Just because you join a country club doesn't mean you agree with everything all the other members believe. However, all members agree it is good to be part of the same club.

Paul Allen is another one like that.

71 austin_blue  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:11:18pm

For those who are interested, here's the batch:

[Link: www.viridiandesign.org...]

72 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:12:05pm

re: #64 Talking Point Detective

I tend to stay away from the term "denier" unless I have what I consider to be conclusive evidence.

The way she acts is conclusive enough for me. I'd be stunned if she wasn't taking excess Koch money on the side.

I challenge her regularly with what I consider to be bias in her take on the climate change debate. She rarely answers my challenges. In my view, that is not to her credit.

Like Gus said...

73 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:12:08pm

AKA: Covering all your bases.

74 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:21:27pm

More crazy news in the land of what now seems to be a lot of crazy, well, Republicans.

Student testifies for evolution

Jackson Hinkle risked missing his class Valentine's Day party yesterday to testify against a bill that he says would push a troubled educational system further into disrepair.

Jackson, 10, is passionate about science, particularly the study of evolution.

Taking the morning off from his classes at Charlotte Avenue School in Nashua, he asked the House Education Committee to kill proposed legislation that would require science teachers to present evolution as a theory and discuss the theorists' political and religious views.

75 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:22:12pm

re: #72 Interesting Times

The way she acts is conclusive enough for me. I'd be stunned if she wasn't taking excess Koch money on the side.

Like Gus said...

Actually, I doubt that she takes Koch money. I don't think that she's that stupid. If she were, and it were proven, she would have absolutely no claim to credibility left. Some say that she has no credibility at this point, but being shown to take Koch money would eliminate even any pretense of credibility. I don't think she'd take that risk.

76 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:24:21pm

re: #74 Gus

More crazy news in the land of what now seems to be a lot of crazy, well, Republicans.

Student testifies for evolution

More...

Rep. Jerry Bergevin, a Manchester Republican, told the committee that history's worst human tragedies were perpetrated in the name of atheism and evolution.

and

The United States today is immersed in a "culture of death" propagated by Planned Parenthood and the American Civil Liberties Union, he said, and "it is through the lies of evolution in the public school system that they are permitted to do their current domestic atrocity."

Related:

New Hampshire bills aim to roll back teaching evolution

77 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:27:59pm

re: #76 Gus

More...

and

Related:

New Hampshire bills aim to roll back teaching evolution

More:

Environmentalists oppose N.H. bill to amend RGGI program

CONCORD — The House Science, Technology and Energy Committee Tuesday heard lopsided testimony on a bill to repeal the state’s involvement in the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative in 2015.

Some 18 people spoke in opposition to the bill, while the sole proponent to testify was its sponsor, state Rep. Jerry Bergevin of Manchester. Committee chairman Rep. James Garrity, R-Atkinson, said he thinks it’s a sign of the times that climate change isn’t on the front burner anymore.

Same idiot. There's a correlation between creationists and AGW denial. I would also add a correlation between creationists, AGW denial, and low IQs with limited cognitive development.

78 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:35:24pm

Now add the abortion and contraception lunacy. Republican probing women's vaginas in Virginia. The rampant racism at CPAC and Fox News. The homophobia. The blind eye to the SS flag...

79 Kragar  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:36:24pm

re: #78 Gus

Now add the abortion and contraception lunacy. Republican probing women's vaginas in Virginia. The rampant racism at CPAC and Fox News. The homophobia. The blind eye to the SS flag...

Pissing on corpses, saying our female troops should expect to get raped...

80 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:37:11pm

re: #79 Kragar

Pissing on corpses, saying our female troops should expect to get raped...

Applauding Mosque attacks...

81 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:42:30pm

re: #80 Gus

Applauding Mosque attacks...

Applauding executing innocent prisoners... booing active duty military who just happen to be gay...

82 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:47:13pm

re: #81 freetoken

Personal anecdote:

I have friend who I known for some years who is conservative.

I put this Picture on my FB.

The Conservative in question liked the picture. A female conservative.

I think Conservatives are losing people in droves.

83 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:49:23pm

re: #82 ProGunLiberal

Republicans are losing people in droves. Said people are still Conservatives, though.

84 Gus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:50:06pm

I better get horizontal...I've run out of fuel.

'Night...

85 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:50:57pm

re: #83 They're pants, essentially...

I don't know if that will be true for much long. They are seeing the consequences and true ideology of conservatism.

Also, some little shit of a program hacked mah FB. I made me like an inappropriate video.

I am pissed. >:(

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:52:44pm

re: #85 ProGunLiberal

Be very careful clicking on anything from a friend that doesn't sound like them.

None of your friends just answered questions about you, and none of them are now getting a look at who searched on their name.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:52:54pm

Laptop shooting dad gets a visit from the police and Child Protective Services. From LA Times...

He says on his Facebook page that the police came to visit him after the video went viral.

Want your faith in humanity restored? Tough shit.

88 Big Joe  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:53:38pm

re: #83 They're pants, essentially...

Republicans are losing people in droves. Said people are still Conservatives, though.

So are Democrats.

89 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:54:05pm

Deport all conservatives

90 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:54:23pm

happy valentines day everybody

91 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:55:07pm

re: #86 No. Just, no.

Before getting rid of the little fuck, I looked at the date it appeared.

I checked my computer in between then and now. There are now viruses or IP issues in my elderly computer.

92 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:55:43pm

re: #85 ProGunLiberal

The problem is that the party is being steered by a segment of Conservatism that's still a couple of generations behind. They've crossed a line. It doesn't mean your friend is suddenly a Progressive. She probably hasn't changed her mind on anything. That's all.

93 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:57:15pm

re: #82 ProGunLiberal

Personal anecdote:

I have friend who I known for some years who is conservative.

I put this Picture on my FB.

The Conservative in question liked the picture. A female conservative.

I think Conservatives are losing people in droves.

Heh, love the Wally Shawn pic in the middle; he was my neighbor for years. Quite an unassuming fellow, but very radical in some of his beliefs. Loved him best from the Princess Bride, but earned his bread playing a Ferengi!

94 Digital Display  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:57:16pm

re: #85 ProGunLiberal

I don't know if that will be true for much long. They are seeing the consequences and true ideology of conservatism.

Also, some little shit of a program hacked mah FB. I made me like an inappropriate video.

I am pissed. >:(

I'd like to write a paper ' Losing America '
After the Civil Rights movement America was continuing the healing process and I think Politics is causing a real riff in the healing process

95 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:57:29pm

re: #92 They're pants, essentially...

I am being hopeful that the past couple months or so are causing a serious re-evaluation of political ideals.

I went through a religious version of this about 1.5 years ago. I converted because of it.

96 labman57  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 9:58:31pm

The industries that are financing the "climate change denial campaign" share the same unethical "profit at all costs" philosophy that has dominated the decision-making process of the tobacco industry as it repeatedly denied any health-related consequences of using their products, including hiring scientists who are charged with the task of taking the supposition that man-made climate change is a fallacy and coming up with data to support that conclusion. Not only is it unethical, it's bad science.

97 dragonath  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:00:15pm

re: #85 ProGunLiberal

That happened to me too. People were asking me why I liked a certain porn star.

It was pretty embarassing :o

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:01:45pm

re: #34 windupbird is in the gravity well

the new standard oil

I hear you, but Standard Oil wasn't all bad. One of its spawn, Standard Oil of Indiana, built the second Standard Oil Building in Chicago (a towering skyscraper now called the Aeon Center) subsequently renamed itself Amoco after buying a few other Standard Oil spawn, and became my father's employer for over 30 years. And Amoco was where my parents met. So without Standard Oil, there would be no Dark_Falcon.

99 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:06:02pm

re: #97 dragonath

And I rarely check my own profile.

I have someone else who has my experience. I don't feel so stupid now.

100 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:14:30pm

re: #91 ProGunLiberal

I tend to mistype:

It should say

re: #91 ProGunLiberal

I checked my computer in between then and now. There are no viruses or IP issues in my elderly computer.

101 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:15:37pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

I hear you, but Standard Oil wasn't all bad. One of its spawn, Standard Oil of Indiana, built the second Standard Oil Building in Chicago (a towering skyscraper now called the Aeon Center) subsequently renamed itself Amoco after buying a few other Standard Oil spawn, and became my father's employer for over 30 years. And Amoco was where my parents met. So without Standard Oil, there would be no Dark_Falcon.

For similar reasons, I feel the same way about JP Morgan Chase, back when it was known as Chase Manhattan. My mom and step-dad met there, so I can't totally hate them!
:-D

102 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:17:18pm

re: #101 Surabaya Stew

For similar reasons, I feel the same way about JP Morgan Chase, back when it was known as Chase Manhattan. My mom and step-dad met there, so I can't totally hate them!
:-D

Yeah. I have trouble hating grade school because...okay, I guess that doesn't work, does it? I never did hate grade schools.

103 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:25:54pm

Well, when you put it like that...

104 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:31:05pm

I feel confident in asserting that if Hitler would not have risen to power in Germany then most of us wouldn't be here, given that we are Americans and either our parents or grandparents had their lives significantly rearranged by WWII.

So, if I gave you a time machine, would you go back and prevent Hitler from becoming Fuhrer?

105 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:34:19pm

re: #103 Slumbering Behemoth

That makes my blood boil.

All of my close RL friends are woman. For this reason, this sort of legislation that neglects a woman's input, or actively tries to take away the rights of women.

This is what makes it so hard to be civil with them right now. Because more primal impulses want me to rage out. I'm holding that back, but this is pissing me off to no end, and is continually showing to me that Democrats cannot bend, break, or back down on anything against Republicans.

The Republicans seek to impose the Christian version of Salafism on the rest of us, and it winds me up.

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:38:17pm

re: #104 freetoken

So, if I gave you a time machine, would you go back and prevent Hitler from becoming Fuhrer?

And risk someone more competent and mentally/emotionally stable being the leader of the third reich? No way.

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:53:10pm

can't fake this shit


sorry haters, coheed is pretty cool

108 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 10:55:54pm

Well this is just sad. Look at the #2 in the "Current Top Attractions"

NOMINATE! 15 Places Kids Should See Before 15

109 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:01:25pm

re: #104 freetoken

I feel confident in asserting that if Hitler would not have risen to power in Germany then most of us wouldn't be here, given that we are Americans and either our parents or grandparents had their lives significantly rearranged by WWII.

So, if I gave you a time machine, would you go back and prevent Hitler from becoming Fuhrer?

you never know it might have resulted in him becoming even fuhrer, maybe even fuhrest

whatever it was fuhr enuf fer me

110 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:05:20pm

re: #108 Slumbering Behemoth

Well this is just sad. Look at the #2 in the "Current Top Attractions"

NOMINATE! 15 Places Kids Should See Before 15

Read the 100+ comments about it for further pain.

111 Lidane  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:10:18pm

From the "Gee, Ya Think?" files:

Is Rick Santorum facing a brewing 'women problem'?

112 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:10:23pm

re: #108 Slumbering Behemoth

Well this is just sad. Look at the #2 in the "Current Top Attractions"

NOMINATE! 15 Places Kids Should See Before 15

Please oh please be joking:

"This place is amazing. I'm a teacher who took my 6th grade science students to see this place... It's one of the best quality museums Ive ever been to, including the Smithsonian" -Dave Scott

113 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:12:13pm

re: #108 Slumbering Behemoth

Well this is just sad. Look at the #2 in the "Current Top Attractions"

NOMINATE! 15 Places Kids Should See Before 15

If you go look at the actual entry discussions:

[Link: www.budgettravel.com...]

You can see that it's been nominated several times, as well as having been voted for many times.

Some of the comments under one of it's entries:

Depicts real bible stories, fantastic place to visit, cost is easy to afford. Will go back again and again - Paula Fialk

This is perfect for the whole family. Wish it had been available when I was a kid, I would have had answers for lots of my questions. We have been 2x with our grandkids and will return again. - Wanda

This museum teaches so much about history. The design is wonderfully done. It kept all of our kiddos busy and the learned so much in just one day. - Dawn Wright

A fascinating tour through the 7 C's of History as chronicled in the best selling book of all-time, The Bible. We travelled all the way from Hawai'i to visit and our kids (14 and 12) loved it and so did we. Looking forward to visiting the Ark Encounter when it is complete. - Patricia Jensen

its phenomenal!!!! Prepare to Believe! - Christie Perkins

We have 3 children ages 3, 7 & 15. There's something there for everyone! It is also a great alternative for a science museum, and you will learn a lot! - Winter Dryden

[...]

Currently holding the lead over the Smithsonian.

This is America.

114 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:15:07pm

re: #110 Spocomptonite

Read the 100+ comments about it for further pain.

Heh.

God has blessed the Creation Museum. It's exciting to see how much opposition it has received. Darkness hates the light.

Right. Credible people criticize the Creation Museum because it is good, and they are evil. I am going to start calling this kind of 'thinking' "Phelpsing".

115 Kragar  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:15:33pm

Actor Kirk Cameron Can’t Be Photographed Alone With A Woman – Even if She is Just a Reporter

While at CPAC yesterday, Cameron was quite the standout star. But like many actors, he has demands. In his case, it’s more like a hard and fast rule. At one point the Washington Examiner‘s gossip scribe Nikki Schwab was interviewing him. TWT‘s Senior Opinion Editor Emily Miller approached to take a picture of Cameron and Schwab and his people physically pushed her and blocked the shot (above is the blurry shot she wound up getting). “I said, people he’s not that important,” Miller vented back in Blogger’s Row at the Wardman Park Hotel. And they told her, “He can’t be photographed alone with a woman.”

What a douche

116 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:18:03pm

re: #113 freetoken

Don't give up hope!

"Those who will benefit least from the museum are the non-Christians, who are firmly grounded in their belief through modern science that the Earth is billions of years old. They will see the museum, and recognize its faulty science, and will be turned away from the church. This will increase the already widening gap between the unchurched and the churched. This gap is the direct result of young Earth creationism." - Kevin

117 Lidane  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:18:24pm
real bible stories

Talk about an oxymoron.

Just those comment samples make my head hurt.

118 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:19:15pm

re: #115 Kragar

SHARIA LAW!!!

119 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:20:53pm

“He can’t be photographed alone with a woman.”

What? I've never heard of that before, in any religion.

Cooties, maybe?

120 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:21:17pm

re: #116 Slumbering Behemoth

Don't give up hope!

Young Earth Creationism Kevin will never replace Somewhat Slow But Extremely Rich Ken in Barbie's Man Harem

121 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:21:21pm
Cant wait for the Harry Potter museum ! - Dennis
122 Lidane  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:23:20pm

re: #119 Spocomptonite

What? I've never heard of that before, in any religion.

Cooties, maybe?

Religious fanaticism combined with sexual repression.

I bet he thinks if he's photographed alone with a woman, someone will think he's cheating on his wife or that he's immoral or some shit, when most people would just be amazed that he's still alive.

123 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:24:16pm

OTOH, here are three very nerdy types discussing the really, really big picture (not according to Ken Ham's religion).

From last month at UCB.

124 Lidane  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:24:35pm

Just think -- Kirk Cameron is missing out on all those hot conservative chicks:

125 Spocomptonite  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:24:42pm

re: #116 Slumbering Behemoth

Don't give up hope!

This is hope:

I was disappointed that I didn't see more of the Spagetti Monster presented. Otherwise it was delightful to see ancient manniquins riding Dino the dinosaur. And I am so happy they managed to clear up my confusion of how Cain "knew" their wives. I guess incest was more acceptable then than it is now. - Letitia

126 Mocking Jay  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:27:34pm

re: #115 Kragar

Most incredulous part of that story?
Kirk Cameron has "people."

127 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:27:52pm

I just made a page out of this. It's some crazy shit:

MURFREESBORO, TN (WSMV) -

A group that states on their website that the "Islamic Movement" is a "threat to our civil liberties" is training deputies in Rutherford County this week.

Deputies from the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department are getting three days of training from Strategic Engagement Group, a Washington-based nonprofit that says its purpose is to counter the Unified Islamic movement in the United States.

128 Kragar  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:31:58pm

re: #124 Lidane

Just think -- Kirk Cameron is missing out on all those hot conservative chicks:

LOLWUT?

129 freetoken  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:32:34pm

re: #127 Conservative Moonbat

You should be able to edit the title. Recommend spelling out Tennessee for the sake of search engines, and change the verb to the present progressive tense.

130 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:36:26pm

re: #129 freetoken

Cool, I forgot that Charles added the edit thing.

131 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:41:01pm

One more comment on the Creation Museum...

misses all the good parts of the bible, passes by the rape and torture, the slaying of children, and then makes up a bunch of BS about dinosaurs, PASS! - corhen

132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:44:50pm

re: #126 They're pants, essentially...

Most incredulous part of that story?
Kirk Cameron has "people."

Heh. Kirk doesn't have "people". The people bankrolling Kirk's nonsense have "people". If tomorrow morning Kirk woke up and said "Wait a minute, this creationism crap is fantastical bullshit! WTF was I thinking promoting that crap?", those "people" would disappear, and the world would go back to forgetting he ever existed.

133 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:44:59pm

good parts of the bible

i like to begat as much as possible

134 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:45:58pm

re: #133 engineer cat

Mrs. Duggar?

135 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:58:19pm

re: #133 engineer cat

Also, I actually did get a Valentines Day card today.

136 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:02:05am

Anthony Watts.
Busted!

137 dragonath  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:03:56am

re: #113 freetoken

From that link:

"Creeashun Muzm"
"Crustacean Museum"
"Spaghetti Monster Universal Creation Museum"

lol

138 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:08:41am

re: #104 freetoken

I feel confident in asserting that if Hitler would not have risen to power in Germany then most of us wouldn't be here, given that we are Americans and either our parents or grandparents had their lives significantly rearranged by WWII.

So, if I gave you a time machine, would you go back and prevent Hitler from becoming Fuhrer?

If Hitler had not risen to power in Germany, the industrialists would have found another puppet to put in his place: perhaps one who was not as mad and obsessive about controlling his generals and every aspect of the war...

And things could have turned out very differently, and not necessarily for the better.

Don't f*ck with history, you'll get your fingers burnt.

139 Kragar  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:13:45am

re: #138 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

If Hitler had not risen to power in Germany, the industrialists would have found another puppet to put in his place: perhaps one who was not as mad and obsessive about controlling his generals and every aspect of the war...

And things could have turned out very differently, and not necessarily for the better.

Don't f*ck with history, you'll get your fingers burnt.

If one had a time machine and went back in time to kill Hitler before he rose to power, what impetus would there be for the future you to travel back in time and kill Hitler? He would never have done anything in the new timeline.

Altering history to noticeable effect would be impossible.

140 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:14:38am

re: #138 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

And things could have turned out very differently, and not necessrily for the better.

Yes, and that is the point. That "differently" would be that you, me, and most of the other people here now would not be here in that alternative universe.

141 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:15:02am
142 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:18:35am

re: #139 Kragar

If one had a time machine and went back in time to kill Hitler before he rose to power, what impetus would there be for the future you to travel back in time and kill Hitler? He would never have done anything in the new timeline.

Altering history to noticeable effect would be impossible.

I recall a review of a book in which a fellow gets his wish to travel back in time: he decides that he wants to go back and prevent John Lennon from meeting Yoko, thus "saving" the Beatles.

So he phones in a bomb threat to the Indica gallery, where John first met Yoko. John heads off through London, gets killed in a car crash, "Sergeant Pepper" and "Abbey Road" never get made...

143 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:19:16am

re: #140 freetoken

Yes, and that is the point. That "differently" would be that you, me, and most of the other people here now would not be here in that alternative universe.

I don't know about you, but I was INEVITABLE.

144 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:25:21am

let's say there was no hitler and so no charismatic speechfier to draw so many people into a unified anti semitic and fascist party. and furthermore no charismatic leader to push the reluctant military into war

it could have been that the communists that the nazis were always fighting would have been able to take over instead. and maybe the japanese wouldn't have been able to be impressed with hitler getting away with brute force and might not have gone so far

and then there would be no world war, and fdr would quit after two terms with the depression mitigated but not solved. and the huge technological leaps in wwii - radar, jets, computers, nuclear fission - and the big increase in college educated americans because of the gi bill, and the surge in income and competetive advantage that america had after wwii - might not have happened

wwii was the vortex of the 20th century, chewing up millions of people and things, sucking up huge pieces of the world and spitting them out at high speed utterly changed

145 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:25:48am

BTW, that UCTelevision video I linked, on cosmology, is interesting but repeats many of the common science-education weakness we often see. It's difficult to communicate highly complex subjects, but there are some hard spots in physics that aren't helped by trying to make too simple of analogies.

One of these is the "picture" of the universe that Dr. Ho uses (in the middle of the video), which is usually depicted as a sphere, with the surface of the sphere a map of the background radiation, and in the animation she uses the Milky Way is at the center of the sphere, and billions of galaxies are mapped into the volume of the sphere (in an animated fly-through from the center to the "outside" of the universe-sphere.) Lots of faulty things with that example, and I think nearly all in the audience come to conclusions, by looking at that image (and animation) and come to wrong ideas/conclusions.

146 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:27:04am

re: #144 engineer cat

I guess my whole point of the question was to raise the moral, not the physics or historical, question: would you sacrifice your own existence to save the lives of others?

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:29:35am

re: #104 freetoken

I feel confident in asserting that if Hitler would not have risen to power in Germany then most of us wouldn't be here, given that we are Americans and either our parents or grandparents had their lives significantly rearranged by WWII.

So, if I gave you a time machine, would you go back and prevent Hitler from becoming Fuhrer?

Obligatory pimping: 11/22/63 deals with a similar question and graphically shows one of the possible outcomes.

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:30:00am

I think the important thing we're glossing over is that Freetoken refused to let me use his time machine to go back in the stream and see a Black Sabbath concert in the 70's.

His excuse was some whiny bullshit about the cost of plutonium rods and "being frivolous". Pfft!

149 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:30:54am

re: #147 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Obligatory pimping: 11/22/63 deals with a similar question and graphically shows one of the possible outcomes.

I'm on my local library's hold list for that book... I think I'm now something like #350 on the wait list...

150 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:33:03am

re: #148 Slumbering Behemoth

Now, if you wanted to go back and watch something important like Caruso's last performance, then, just maybe, I'd let you use the damn thing.

151 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:34:37am

re: #146 freetoken

I guess my whole point of the question was to raise the moral, not the physics or historical, question: would you sacrifice your own existence to save the lives of others?

we can't say "i will change this one thing and i can know that all these other things will happen because of it and it will all be good"

we can't

there are so many possibilities in every moment that it's incalculable, NP hard, a gigantic combinatorial explosion

152 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:34:50am

re: #146 freetoken

All the elements and influences were there to give rise to the third reich, with or without Hitler. With Hitler, we found an enemy that we could defeat. Without him...

If you wanted to sacrifice yourself in order to prevent the Holocaust, I think you'd have to go back in time and prevent the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Maybe.

153 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:34:50am

Oh, I'm wrong... it turns out I've moved all the way up to #303 on the waiting list. Progress!

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:35:57am

re: #139 Kragar

If one had a time machine and went back in time to kill Hitler before he rose to power, what impetus would there be for the future you to travel back in time and kill Hitler? He would never have done anything in the new timeline.

Altering history to noticeable effect would be impossible.

Yes.

I would say altering history is impossible as such.

To alter it, you must travel to the past. To travel to the past, the past must exist in the first place, that is, the possibility of time travel refutes presentism and affirms the "4D"/block view of spacetime. But such a view is "static" - everything "'has already happened", including you traveling to the past.

155 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:36:00am

re: #150 freetoken

Pfft! Whatever, grandpa.

156 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:36:18am

re: #151 engineer cat

I can be reasonably confident that if my father would not have signed up for the Army after Pearl Harbor that his life would have been different... he never would have met my mother... and even if he would have it would have been at a different time... and I wouldn't be here.

157 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:36:36am

re: #154 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Yes.

I would say altering history is impossible as such.

To alter it, you must travel to the past. To travel to the past, the past must exist in the first place, that is, the possibility of time travel refutes presentism and affirms the "4D"/block view of spacetime. But such a view is "static" - everything "'has already happened", including you traveling to the past.

How cute!
*Chuckles*

158 Kragar  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:38:20am

re: #154 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Yes.

I would say altering history is impossible as such.

To alter it, you must travel to the past. To travel to the past, the past must exist in the first place, that is, the possibility of time travel refutes presentism and affirms the "4D"/block view of spacetime. But such a view is "static" - everything "'has already happened", including you traveling to the past.

Thats my view of it as well.

159 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:40:15am

re: #157 Varek Raith

How cute!
*Chuckles*

Let's just let them feel comfortable...

160 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:41:04am

On a serious note, time travel is impossible unless you deal with the langoliers first.

161 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:41:44am

re: #157 Varek Raith

How cute!
*Chuckles*

Well, OK, a being from outside of that 4D block can alter anything. I meant the internal changes.

162 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:44:40am

re: #150 freetoken

Now, if you wanted to go back and watch something important like Caruso's last performance, then, just maybe, I'd let you use the damn thing.

my biggest wish is to have been there for onna the times that louis armstrong and bix biederbecke got together after hours and jammed in private since they could never have played together in public because of the racism of the time only a very few people were there to hear it when it happened boop boop boo beep bop bee dow, doo eet deet doo! doo! wat! dee doo dop...

163 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:46:35am

I wish I could remember the nic of the Lizard who linked this, in order to give a proper h/t.

164 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:48:56am

re: #163 Slumbering Behemoth

I wish I could remember the nic of the Lizard who linked this, in order to give a proper h/t.

LOL.

165 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:51:30am

I just used LinkedIn to apply for a job in Los Angeles. Oy.

It's weird. I live so much of my life online, but a job application has my stomach in knots. WTF.

166 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 12:56:45am

re: #164 Varek Raith

LOL.

hello, Hitler the modestly successful landscape artist

i did read a short story once of napoleon born 40 years too late, a crank, a caretaker on corsica who loves to bore people with his useless theories on how the battles of the french revolutionary period could have been won

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:00:29am

Y'all reminded me of this cartoon I saw back in the day.

/Yes, I know I was a grown adult back when that first aired, but alt history revolving around the second world war fascinates me. Shut up.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:01:38am

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

Y'all reminded me of this cartoon I saw back in the day.

/Yes, I know I was a grown adult back when that first aired, but alt history revolving around the second world war fascinates me. Shut up.

Are you now or have you ever been a brony?
//

169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:05:47am

re: #168 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Are you now or have you ever been a brony?
//

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of Lou Reed as a rat-man rock star from the post-apocalyptic future

170 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:07:15am

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

Y'all reminded me of this cartoon I saw back in the day.

/Yes, I know I was a grown adult back when that first aired, but alt history revolving around the second world war fascinates me. Shut up.

My fave is still "The Man in the High Castle" by Philip Dick, alt post-WWII.

Wonder why that Dick novel has not been filmed yet. I would love to see it.

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:07:58am

My name is MOk, thanks a lot

172 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:11:32am

re: #168 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Not just "no", but...

173 freetoken  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:20:48am
174 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:21:26am

re: #163 Slumbering Behemoth

I wish I could remember the nic of the Lizard who linked this, in order to give a proper h/t.

That is so full of WIN!

175 researchok  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:34:45am

Morning, all

177 researchok  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:40:28am

re: #173 freetoken

Loved that.

Check out Sophie Milman- anything.

Lots on youtube as well.

178 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:48:22am

re: #176 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

separated at birth?

179 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:50:36am

re: #178 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

separated at birth?

You missing a sarc tag there, mister?

/

180 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 1:59:20am

I think it was in "Manhattan" that Woody Allen was explaining to his young girlfriend that he cannot relate to someone who thinks Paul McCartney is the guy used to play with "Wings".

182 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:13:01am

re: #104 freetoken

I feel confident in asserting that if Hitler would not have risen to power in Germany then most of us wouldn't be here, given that we are Americans and either our parents or grandparents had their lives significantly rearranged by WWII.

So, if I gave you a time machine, would you go back and prevent Hitler from becoming Fuhrer?

But let's hypothetically assume that it is possible to change the past.

I will answer in general: it should only be morally allowable to change the past is if there's nothing to lose in the present. We simply don't know if changing Hitler's course would not have led to a greater evil.

Moreover, there's something else to consider. If you change the past, billions of people cease to exist. Is not that akin to murder?

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:16:17am

re: #178 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

separated at birth?

I'm fixin' to kick your ass right now.
/

184 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:17:09am

re: #182 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

If you change the past, billions of people cease to exist.

(That is, if you alter it significantly, or deep enough in time. The closer to the "now", the less the effect.)

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:18:19am

re: #176 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Why?
Why do you assume the initial totallylookalike was not a joke? Maybe specifically to rob you of your will to live?

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:19:16am

Has anyone seen Mutant Girls Squad?

187 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:22:13am

re: #186 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Has anyone seen Mutant Girls Squad?

Hahaha.
It's awesome.

188 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:23:25am

re: #187 Varek Raith

Hahaha.
It's awesome.

I take it you recommend.

189 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:24:48am

re: #188 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I take it you recommend.

If you like silly, over-the-top violence and little plot...
You betcha!

190 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:26:11am

re: #189 Varek Raith

If you like silly, over-the-top violence and little plot...
You betcha!

From what I've read, it's like Inspector Gadget on fungi from Yuggoth. Go-go ass chainsaw!

191 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:39:49am

re: #185 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Whoa, dude. You knew about the meme troll cabal that secretly conspires to get me to vacate planet Earth?

That's why Newt is so keen on his "Moon Colony" thing, he's one of them. It's not designed to be a colony, it's gonna be a Moon Prison for yours truly.

waitaminute... You're one of them, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!?!

192 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:46:03am

Mutant Girl Squad Trailer

And people like to bitch about the perverse, bloodthirsty, action obsessed, warmongering of the American film industry. We ain't got shit on Japan, especially in the "perverse" realm. Never did.

193 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:52:37am

re: #192 Slumbering Behemoth

Mutant Girl Squad Trailer

[Video]And people like to bitch about the perverse, bloodthirsty, action obsessed, warmongering of the American film industry. We ain't got shit on Japan, especially in the "perverse" realm. Never did.

You're just jealous that you don't have tentacle arms.

194 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:57:22am

Every time traveler wants to kill Hitler.

[Link: www.abyssapexzine.com...]

195 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:57:53am

re: #193 Varek Raith

You're just jealous that you don't have tentacle arms.

No, I'm jealous that I don't have chainsaw butt. Sheesh.
/

196 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:06:31am

Feel like getting stupid? History bitches!!!

Keep in mind, Harun is a YEC Muslim from Turkey, and has close ties to the Dominionist Intelligent Design movement in the USA.

197 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:26:54am

Moses steals electricity from Egypt, and there is no proof that modern civilization is any more advanced technologically from any ancient civilization.

BAM! The Theory of Evolution debunked.

198 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:27:04am

I do not doubt that a lot of knowledge we had in history has been lost.

Knowledge was power, and power was closely guarded. When the initiates died, the knowledge died with them.

That is why we invented science: the idea is that knowledge should be systematized and documented so that it can be passed from one generation to the next.

This is why I find it dangerous to f*ck with science.

199 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:32:02am

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

Moses steals electricity from Egypt, and there is no proof that modern civilization is any more advanced technologically from any ancient civilization.

BAM! The Theory of Evolution debunked.

Yeah, but Social Darwinism rocks!!!

/

200 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:44:25am

re: #199 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

It's an addiction, the kind of magical thinking that literalism and creationism brings. A narcotic of the mind. A poison more destructive to society than heroin.

It's tax exempt, just like heroin. However unlike heroin, it's legal, it comes with a social framework that supports the addicts and prevents them from confronting their addiction, and it's destructive power is embraced as a virtue; a common good upon which all of modern society is founded.

Oh, wait, you were going for humor. My bad.

201 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:47:04am

re: #200 Slumbering Behemoth

It's an addiction, the kind of magical thinking that literalism and creationism brings. A narcotic of the mind. A poison more destructive to society than heroin.

You mean an opiate of the masses?

You old Marxist, you!

202 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:52:28am

Good Morning Honcos!!

NC preschooler’s “unhealthy” lunch replaced with cafeteria nuggets

Unhealthy lunch = turkey and cheese sandwich, a banana, apple juice and potato chips

Healthy lunch = school provided "chicken" nuggets

Any questions?

203 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:52:56am

re: #201 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

What do you mean "old"?

WAIT! What do you mean "Marxist"?!?!

/Fine, maybe he was right about one thing.
/

204 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:53:45am

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

Moses steals electricity from Egypt, and there is no proof that modern civilization is any more advanced technologically from any ancient civilization.

BAM! The Theory of Evolution debunked.

HAHAHAHAHA

205 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:55:09am

re: #201 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

You mean an opiate of the masses?

Marx never saw Jersey Shore. If he had he might have changed his view slightly.
//

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:55:15am

re: #201 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Some Opiate.

207 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:58:21am

re: #201 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

You mean an opiate of the massesDid you motorboat her? You did, you motorboating son of a bitch! You old Marxist Sailor, you!

/Wedding Crashers/

208 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:50:48am

Crap, looks like I broke LGF...Sorry Charles.
//

209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:51:21am

re: #202 Boy, You got a panty on your head.

Finally... not a "right/left" thing. That was just fucking nuts.

210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:57:59am

No time left for you; on my way to better things...
-The Guess Who

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:10:17am

re: #196 Slumbering Behemoth

Feel like getting stupid? History bitches!!!

Keep in mind, Harun is a YEC Muslim from Turkey, and has close ties to the Dominionist Intelligent Design movement in the USA.

A Holocaust denier too.

212 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:10:22am

re: #202 Boy, You got a panty on your head.

Good Morning Honcos!!

NC preschooler’s “unhealthy” lunch replaced with cafeteria nuggets

Unhealthy lunch = turkey and cheese sandwich, a banana, apple juice and potato chips

Healthy lunch = school provided "chicken" nuggets

Any questions?

They're trying to teach her a very important lesson, only eat what your govt tells you you're allowed to eat. Otherwise, she might grow up thinking she's entitled to make some decisions on her own and we can't have that. Society could completely break down.

213 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:13:42am

re: #212 RogueOne

They're trying to teach her a very important lesson, only eat what your govt tells you you're allowed to eat. Otherwise, she might grow up thinking she's entitled to make some decisions on her own and we can't have that. Society could completely break down.

Still sore from yesterday?

/

214 dragonath  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:14:46am

My school cafeteria used to serve chicken nuggets cut in molds or something.

I was always kind of conflicted between the thought that someone wanted the lunch to look happy and I should be enjoying it, and the fact I was eating something dead in the shape of cute anthropomorphic animals.

215 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:16:22am

re: #213 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Hee, Noooo, not at all! I've come around. If we let people decide on their own what to eat where does it end? The streets would run red from the blood of the stupid! Streets would be littered with bodies, amish milk bottles and straws.....It would be like the great crack wars of the 80's only with better bone structure.

216 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:17:25am

Probably has more to do with chicken farming being an important southern business than anything to do with government but hey, I don't wear tinfoil either.

Broiler production is concentrated in a group of States stretching from Delaware, south along the Atlantic coast to Georgia, then westward through Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas (see map). The top broiler-producing State is Georgia, followed by Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, and North Carolina.

[Link: www.ers.usda.gov...]

Nah, corporate concerns have nothing to do with pushing chicken over northern produced turkey...

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:19:25am

re: #215 RogueOne

Hee, Nooo, not at all! I've come around. If we let people decide on their own what to eat where does it end? The streets would run red from the blood of the stupid! Streets would be littered with bodies, amish milk bottles and straws...It would be like the great crack wars of the 80's only with better bone structure.

Hmm, an interesting position, one I haven't seen here before. So why do you think one should control what people eat?

218 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:19:51am

NYPD "Stop and Frisks" Hit All-Time High
City police officers stopped and questioned 684,330 people on the street last year.

[Link: www.nbcnewyork.com...]

The number of so-called "stop and frisks" is rising.

City police officers stopped and questioned 684,330 people on the street last year, a record since the NYPD began yearly tallies of the tactic in 2002 and a 14 percent increase over 2010.
....
Typically, half of the potential suspects who are stopped are frisked or searched.

Of those stopped last year, about 12 percent were arrested or received summonses. The rest were not charged.

Amazing, almost 3/4 of a million people stopped for walking down the street.

219 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:21:21am

re: #217 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

We do have an obesity epidemic.

220 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:21:51am

re: #219 Tommy

oh yeah, and I'm doing my part (burp)

221 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:22:15am

Screw the raw milk. Give me some of that good old fashion rotten milk I say. Heck. That chit is almost like cottage cheese anyway. What's wrong with that?

222 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:23:10am

re: #219 Tommy

We do have an obesity epidemic.

Is that an excuse to control what people choose to eat? Rogue's new position is quite extreme.

223 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:24:53am

re: #222 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

NYC already does that, where have you been?

224 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:24:55am

If it were up to me, everybody would be eating jelly with tofu flavor. But that's just me. //

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:25:13am

re: #223 Tommy

NYC already does that, where have you been?

Link?

226 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:25:43am

re: #224 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

If it were up to me, everybody would be eating jelly with tofu flavor. But that's just me. //

I prefer that jelly stuff in the Vienna sausage cans.

[Slurp]

//

227 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:26:02am

re: #219 Tommy

We do have an obesity epidemic.

I wonder why...

USDA Food Pyramid

228 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:26:04am
229 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:27:08am

re: #227 RogueOne

I wonder why...

USDA Food Pyramid

Is tobacco a fruit or a vegetable?

230 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:27:55am

re: #229 Gus

Is tobacco a fruit or a vegetable?

Depends on whether you smoke, chew, smell or drink it. /

231 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:29:21am

re: #230 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Depends on whether you smoke, chew, smell or drink it. /

Get me one of them gluten-free nicotine shakes.

232 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:29:30am

re: #225 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)


[Link: www.thehindu.com...]
I forgot about transfats.

233 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:29:52am

re: #222 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Is that an excuse to control what people choose to eat? Rogue's new position is quite extreme.

I was only kidding! I don't have a new position. I would think it should be easy to get most of us to agree that, at a minimum, people should be allowed to decide on their own what to eat. I don't see that position as radical.

RE: the school lunch issue the school is in a tough spot. They have an understandable obligation to make sure the kids in their preschool are getting a decent lunch but when you have rules that are open to interpretation this kind of overstep is going to happen.

234 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:31:00am

re: #233 RogueOne

When did you stop beating your wife?
/

235 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:31:09am

re: #232 Tommy

[Link: www.thehindu.com...]
I forgot about transfats.

Tyranny!

236 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:31:10am

re: #229 Gus

Is tobacco a fruit or a vegetable?

It's no carb as long as you only smoke it. No carbs=healthy. The tobacco companies were right!

237 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:31:31am

re: #233 RogueOne

Did you ever decide whether you wanted the government to regulate the sale of foods or not, by the way?

238 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:31:45am

re: #234 Tommy

When did you stop beating your wife?
/

About 10 last night but she was asking for it.....Valentines day and all..

239 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:32:39am

re: #236 RogueOne

It's no carb as long as you only smoke it. No carbs=healthy. The tobacco companies were right!

Hey. I maintain a high level of morbidity. Net cost savings to society is on the positive end spectrum. With smokers, you're in the black long haul.

//

240 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:33:00am

re: #237 Obdicut

Did you ever decide whether you wanted the government to regulate the sale of foods or not, by the way?

I told you I did, you just seem to have a hard time understanding that people might want to make decisions on their own regardless of what the govt tells them. Why is it that you find that confusing?

241 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:35:12am

re: #240 RogueOne

Careful, Obdi has to win...

242 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:35:29am

Good moring Lizards. Damp and cloudy today in Philadelphia.


Microlizards!
243 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:35:42am

re: #231 Gus

Get me one of them gluten-free nicotine shakes.

Indianapolis is still trying to get a handle on their smoking rules in bars/restaurants. People were concerned with the Super Bowl in town that there might be a lot of complaints but it turned out they were worried about nothing. The Mayors stance is if it's an adults only place then the property owners should make the call, and I agree, but it looks like his veto will probably get overridden.

244 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:36:20am

re: #237 Obdicut

Did you ever decide whether you wanted the government to regulate the sale of foods or not, by the way?

Regulating foods does not result in cost-savings.

//

245 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:36:44am

re: #233 RogueOne

I was only kidding!

As was I. One of the ways to expose a sarcastic strawman argument is to take it seriously.

I don't have a new position. I would think it should be easy to get most of us to agree that, at a minimum, people should be allowed to decide on their own what to eat. I don't see that position as radical.

Sure. And, of course, nobody argued with that position (we don't take a special case of children).

246 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:38:53am

re: #245 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

As was I. One of the ways to expose a sarcastic strawman argument is to take it seriously.

Sure. And, of course, nobody argued with that position (we don't take a special case of children).

I think there's a difference between what we eat and the quality of the food we eat. This and how it relates to regulation.

247 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:40:09am

re: #246 Gus

I think there's a difference between what we eat and the quality of the food we eat. This and how it relates to regulation.

There's a difference between regulating what free adult people eat (which nobody does) and what foodstuffs sellers are allowed to sell. To conflate these two issues and present the latter as the former is a sophism.

248 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:40:34am

The prime importance being food safety not as much nutritional value. Truth in advertising also comes into play. If it's junk food it is either a) known as such or b) labeled as such. "Warning, this package contain useless calories."

249 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:42:45am

re: #247 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

There's a difference between regulating what free adult people eat (which nobody does) and what foodstuffs sellers are allowed to sell. To conflate these two issues and present the latter as the former is a sophism.

I don't know. Was anyone conflating them? I'm trying to come to a conclusion here. The point is that government can regulate the quality of food, safety, etc. But what the government can't or should not do is regulate what is consumed once it passes that point.

250 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:42:49am

re: #240 RogueOne

BTW, I slightly changed my position from yesterday. I think that in analogy to cigarettes or poisons, raw milk is OK to sell as long as there are obligatory labels which clearly emphasize the risks and dangers of consuming it.

251 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:43:08am

re: #249 Gus

I don't know. Was anyone conflating them?

Yes.

252 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:43:25am

I hate those commercials saying the high fructose corn sugars/syrup are all good and what not.
What a load of crap.

253 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:43:32am

re: #251 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Yes.

Quien?

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:44:14am

re: #253 Gus

Quien?

#212, #215, and yesterday.

255 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:45:01am

re: #245 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

As was I. One of the ways to expose a sarcastic strawman argument is to take it seriously.

Sure. And, of course, nobody argued with that position (we don't take a special case of children).

Well, we do have to be careful. First it starts with milk and then people in NYC might think they have the right to walk down the street without being frisked. We have to squash that "free thinking" crap quick! You'll do what you're told and you'll freaking like it!!

///(these aren't really necessary are they?)

256 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:45:20am

re: #252 Varek Raith

I hate those commercials saying the high fructose corn sugars/syrup are all good and what not.
What a load of crap.

Exactly, If corn was meant to be eaten, God wouldn't have made it into Ethanol.
//kinda

257 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:46:01am

re: #254 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

#212, #215, and yesterday.

Oh. Right. When it comes to consumption I consider myself pro-choice.

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:46:12am

re: #255 RogueOne

Well, we do have to be careful. First it starts with milk and then people in NYC might think they have the right to walk down the street without being frisked. We have to squash that "free thinking" crap quick! You'll do what you're told and you'll freaking like it!!

///(these aren't really necessary are they?)

We can push it to the absurd in the opposite direction too, you realize this?

259 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:48:35am

re: #157 Varek Raith

How cute!
*Chuckles*

OK. Which one of you jokers used the time machine and stepped on that butterfly. It's now raining donuts!

260 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:49:24am

re: #248 Gus

The prime importance being food safety not as much nutritional value. Truth in advertising also comes into play. If it's junk food it is either a) known as such or b) labeled as such. "Warning, this package contain useless calories."

I'm not a health food nut (actually I have to keep sweets out of the house or I'll eat an entire bag of cookies in one sitting) but your suggested warning label is perfect and I would support your newsletter. I try to stay away from carbs 9 months out of the year (a couple months during the winter I usually try to gain weight). My SiL is trying to lose some weight but she eats nothing but foods loaded with carbs. She's fighting a losing battle because she doesn't understand how her body works.

261 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:49:32am

re: #259 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

OK. Which one of you jokers used the time machine and stepped on that butterfly. It's now raining donuts!

It's easy. You. After all, if you're inside the changed timestream all along, you can't be surprised.

262 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:53:39am

Morning, all. Just had a bowl of authentic Irish oatmeal with chemically detuned sugar and pasturized milk. Healthfood agnostic, here.

263 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:53:58am

Looking at the news. Weird as usual.

264 compound_Idaho  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:54:44am

If the Amish farmer irradiates the milk, can it still be advertised as raw milk?

265 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:54:45am

re: #262 Decatur Deb

Morning, all. Just had a bowl of authentic Irish oatmeal with chemically detuned sugar and pasturized milk. Healthfood agnostic, here.

What would a food-atheist eat?

//

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:55:27am

re: #250 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

BTW, I slightly changed my position from yesterday. I think that in analogy to cigarettes or poisons, raw milk is OK to sell as long as there are obligatory labels which clearly emphasize the risks and dangers of consuming it.

Forgot to add the obvious: govt-approved labels, that is. Also a form of regulation.

267 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:55:28am

re: #262 Decatur Deb

Old fashioned oats here with butter and molasses

268 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:55:40am

He would survive on Twinkies and MREs--not food.

269 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:55:57am

Coffee. Black.

270 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:56:55am

re: #264 compound_Idaho

If the Amish farmer irradiates the milk, can it still be advertised as raw milk?

People are freaked out enough about raw milk and you want to let them use radiation to clean it up? The "blood of the stupid" would glow a neat greenish color.

271 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:57:38am

Hell of a way to go:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:57:56am

[Link: www2.timesdispatch.com...]

[Virginia] House passes 'personhood' and ultrasound measures

273 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:58:26am

re: #262 Decatur Deb

re: #267 Tommy

I can't stand oatmeal, unless it's in cookie form. Mom loved it and insisted I eat it. As a kid I'd wake up pissed off because I'd have dreams about eating it for breakfast.

274 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:59:19am
275 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:59:37am

re: #270 RogueOne

People are freaked out enough about raw milk and you want to let them use radiation to clean it up? The "blood of the stupid" would glow a neat greenish color.

Irradiation of food of course does not lead to radioactivity of food.

276 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:01:00am

re: #275 Gus

Irradiation of food of course does not lead to radioactivity of food.

The scientifically-studied case of the Toxic Avenger teaches us otherwise!//

277 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:01:49am

Off to class!

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:02:15am

re: #277 Boy, You got a panty on your head.

Off to class!

Don't drink from the raw knowledge fountain.

279 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:02:26am

re: #267 Tommy

Old fashioned oats here with butter and molasses

Sounds homey, but molasses is very bitter to me--even as Jamaican rum.

280 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:02:57am

re: #277 Boy, You got a panty on your head.

Off to class!

Don't forget to remove that panty on your head.

281 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:03:44am

Pantyhead.

///

282 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:04:07am

re: #281 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Pantyhead.

///

Fruit panties. Sup with that?

283 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:04:55am

Our school kept its own cows and had its own pasteurizer--run by the kids as a rotating chore. Burned milk and Cheerios, yum.

284 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:05:23am

Pekingese 'Best in Show' at Westminster Dog Show
[Link: www.voanews.com...]

The big dogs get screwed again. How is that mop better than this?:
Image: 2012-02-15T031840Z_01_NYK308_RTRIDSP_3_DOGSHOW.jpg

285 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:06:22am

re: #275 Gus

Irradiation of food of course does not lead to radioactivity of food.

Why do you want to wreck my fun man? I say it leads to glowing people and you can't make me believe otherwise!//

286 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:07:11am

re: #285 RogueOne

Why do you want to wreck my fun man? I say it leads to glowing people and you can't make me believe otherwise!//

Clearly I'm just another tool for Big Radiation.

//

287 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:07:14am

re: #274 Interesting Times

That's funny

288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:07:55am

Got in a facebook argument about vaccinations.

Fuck! People are dumb.

289 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:08:32am

re: #288 Long Nics are Looonnng

Got in a facebook argument about vaccinations.

Fuck! People are dumb.

Did you know that spending money on vaccination programs doesn't save money in the long run?

//

290 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:10:57am

re: #288 Long Nics are Looonnng

Got in a facebook argument about vaccinations.

Fuck! People are dumb.

Number of Indiana measles cases growing
[Link: www.wthr.com...]

CENTRAL INDIANA -

The number of confirmed cases of measles in central Indiana is growing. There are now 13 cases and doctors are alerting you to take action.

The state is also releasing an extensive list of places people may have come in contact with the disease. The places include the Noblesville Walmart, a funeral home in Cicero, a church, clinics, and schools. There are more than a dozen spots.

Rumor has it it started with one person in the super bowl village.

291 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:12:14am

Support my Anti-Chlorination Institute--get big government out of our tapwater.

292 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:13:36am

re: #285 RogueOne

Why do you want to wreck my fun man? I say it leads to glowing people and you can't make me believe otherwise!//

I heard they don't glow, but lets just say they can leave the bathroom light off and still see just fine.
//

293 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:14:55am

re: #291 Decatur Deb

Support my Anti-Chlorination Institute--get big government out of our tapwater.

I'm pretty sure that's how the zombie apocalypse starts, too much chlorination. I can't prove it....yet.

294 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:16:12am

Dog is ramming the patio door. Walk time. BBL

295 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:16:22am

re: #240 RogueOne

I told you I did

You told me you did, and you told me you didn't, both at the same time. For some reason, you don't have a problem saying completely contradictory things.

Makes for a weak argument. Actually, makes for a complete lack of an argument.

296 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:17:29am

PETA promotes violence against women.

WTF is wrong with these assholes? They actually think that it's "cute" and "funny" to show some girl getting fucked until she has to wear a neck brace, and "that's the way she likes it" rape sex.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:17:32am

re: #294 Decatur Deb

Dog is ramming the patio door. Walk time. BBL

You got a little bull there.

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:18:20am

re: #296 Look At My New Grandbaby!

wut
Is it some Japanese flick we're talking about?/

299 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:18:40am

re: #297 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

You got a little bull there.

It's a sign of apocalypse.

300 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:18:43am

re: #296 Look At My New Grandbaby!

One of the strangest damn ads I've ever seen.

And a total fucking lie: vegans struggle with proper nutrition. Veganism might be ethically preferable from some perspectives, but it is definitely not the most healthy option.

301 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:19:48am

re: #296 Look At My New Grandbaby!

PETA promotes violence against women.

WTF is wrong with these assholes? They actually think that it's "cute" and "funny" to show some girl getting fucked until she has to wear a neck brace, and "that's the way she likes it" rape sex.

Eww.

302 chandsolo  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:21:30am
David Waldman @KagroX
Personhood + mandatory ultrasound = warrantless surveillance.
303 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:21:44am

re: #300 Obdicut

One of the strangest damn ads I've ever seen.

And a total fucking lie: vegans struggle with proper nutrition. Veganism might be ethically preferable from some perspectives, but it is definitely not the most healthy option.

Becoming a vegan will not turn a man into a violent rapist, but for some weird reason PETA wants to promote this idea.

Yes ladies, if your boyfriend becomes a vegan he will want violent, crippling rape-sex, isn't that awesome!

PETA is a porno production company, they have nothing to do with animal rights, in fact they probably (NSFW stuff)

304 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:23:12am

re: #288 Long Nics are Looonnng

Got in a facebook argument about vaccinations.

Fuck! People are dumb.

Based on this?

More Doctors 'Fire' Vaccine Refusers
Families Who Reject Inoculations Told to Find a New Physician; Contagion in Waiting Room Is a Fear
[Link: online.wsj.com...]

305 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:23:47am

re: #303 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I think there's a lot of similarity between Komen and PETA. They're both very slick, very much about the public face, marketing, etc.

306 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:24:09am

re: #296 Look At My New Grandbaby!

PETA promotes violence against women.

WTF is wrong with these assholes? They actually think that it's "cute" and "funny" to show some girl getting fucked until she has to wear a neck brace, and "that's the way she likes it" rape sex.

The ad is stupid, but I don't see where there is the rape here. The "joke" seems to be that he fucked her so hard that there was a little accident (head meet wall). That's lame, but not "promoting violence" or some such.

307 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:24:16am

re: #303 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Becoming a vegan will not turn a man into a violent rapist, but for some weird reason PETA wants to promote this idea.

Yes ladies, if your boyfriend becomes a vegan he will want violent, crippling rape-sex, isn't that awesome!

PETA is a porno production company, they have nothing to do with animal rights, in fact they probably (NSFW stuff)

There's more!

308 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:24:40am

re: #303 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I don't know that that is the message they're trying to send. It seems they're trying to say it makes men more virile. The truth is it makes them gassy which wouldn't make for a very good commercial.

309 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:24:47am

Fucking weird shit.

310 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:25:26am

Another.

311 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:26:09am

Cult.

312 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:30:26am

Those are worse than Axe Body Spray commercials, and that's saying a lot.

313 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:32:24am

I'm sure this will end well:

NYPD Quietly Revises Its Deadly Force Policy
[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

The NYPD has quietly revised its Patrol Guide to add a clause that gives officers more leeway in the use of deadly force, despite currently dealing with fallout from a police shooting that left an unarmed teen dead in the Bronx. The revision is based on a 2010 New York Court of Appeals ruling which stated that the decision to fire a gun should be left to an individual officer's discretion.

The ruling threw out a lawsuit by Tammy Johnson, who was hit by a stray bullet when police began shooting at an armed robber in Harlem. Johnson had her 18-month-old daughter with her at the time.

However, in that case, the court ruled that officers violated no NYPD guidelines. In response, NYPD has revised the Patrol Guide to reflect the court's decision. Officers are now instructed that they shouldn't fire their weapons if, "in their professional judgment," innocent bystanders run the risk of being hurt.

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:32:50am

re: #312 Obdicut

Those are worse than Axe Body Spray commercials, and that's saying a lot.

Here's something worse than Axe ads:

315 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:33:19am

re: #306 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

The ad is stupid, but I don't see where there is the rape here. The "joke" seems to be that he fucked her so hard that there was a little accident (head meet wall). That's lame, but not "promoting violence" or some such.

The "promoting violence" part is suggesting that women "enjoy" this type of sex and want more of it. When an accident of this type occurs, the woman normally wants to STOP immediately because a serious injury can totally destroy the mood.

316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:33:47am

Morning all!

Kid is still sick, I am feeling better.

How are you?

317 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:34:41am

re: #314 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Here's something worse than Axe ads:

[Video]

Ain't it grand? We're the most intelligent species.

My only wish is to be immortal and see the gigantic asteroid that hits Earth.

//

318 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:35:41am

re: #314 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Here's something worse than Axe ads:

[Video]

That was horrible.

319 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:37:36am

Warning: You Might Be a Terrorist If You Buy Your Morning Coffee With Cash
[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

Bad news, New Yorkers: every time you buy one dollar coffee from that dude in the food cart outside your office, someone is secretly wondering if you're a terrorist in disguise.
...
According to IT World:

"Using cash for small purchases like a cup of coffee, gum and other items is a good indication that a person is trying to pass for normal without leaving the kind of paper trail created using a debit or credit card for small purchases."

The flyers, which were posted online by the political watchdog group Public Intelligence, either contain reporting guidelines which are so obvious as to be useless, or target behaviors that most normal people engage in on a daily basis.

For example, the general public is advised to look out for people asking "questions regarding sensitive information such as security procedures or systems," which, just... duh. But alternately, you should also be on the lookout for people "demonstrating little interest in an activity," "mumbling to themselves," or talking on cell phones. So, everyone in New York, basically.

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:38:23am

re: #315 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The "promoting violence" part is suggesting that women "enjoy" this type of sex and want more of it. When an accident of this type occurs, the woman normally wants to STOP immediately because a serious injury can totally destroy the mood.

Sure, but I didn't dispute the "promote violence" part. It also promotes more than that (the "Axe woman" etc.). But the sex in the ad is consensual, so it's not "rape sex", unless you meant it as a synonym for violent sex.

321 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:38:37am

re: #291 Decatur Deb

Support my Anti-Chlorination Institute--get big government out of our tapwater.

Why pay for chemicals in the water when the gas companies doing fracking will add them for free!
//

322 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:39:58am

re: #314 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

MMmm, grass flavored vodka. That has to be good stuff!

323 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:41:16am

re: #284 RogueOne

Pekingese 'Best in Show' at Westminster Dog Show
[Link: www.voanews.com...]

The big dogs get screwed again. How is that mop better than this?:
Image: 2012-02-15T031840Z_01_NYK308_RTRIDSP_3_DOGSHOW.jpg

I definitely prefer the dobi, but the judge prefered the peeky dog.

It's a beauty contest for dogs. The real test of a dog is Agility trials. It shows how well the dog performs, obeys commands and how well it's body is made.

324 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:41:29am

re: #322 RogueOne

MMmm, grass flavored vodka. That has to be good stuff!

What are you, a girl? //unforeseen side-effect

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:43:13am

re: #293 RogueOne

I'm pretty sure that's how the zombie apocalypse starts, too much chlorination. I can't prove it...yet.

That and fluoridation of water. A full set of teeth is the first sign.

326 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:43:22am

re: #320 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Sure, but I didn't dispute the "promote violence" part. It also promotes more than that (the "Axe woman" etc.). But the sex in the ad is consensual, so it's not "rape sex", unless you meant it as a synonym for violent sex.

The ad shows the woman has had violent sex, even sustaining an injury that requires wearing an appliance, and yet she enjoys it and goes back for more!

There may be a few women have this kind of paraphilia but the vast majority of women do not crave such activity. The notion that most women enjoy violent sex is a rapist's fantasy. Most women do not want their partners to become violent and abusive, whether it's from becoming a vegan, taking viagra or some other reason (such as he's their pimp)

327 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:43:25am

re: #319 RogueOne

Warning: You Might Be a Terrorist If You Buy Your Morning Coffee With Cash
[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

The flyers, which were posted online by the political watchdog group Public Intelligence, either contain reporting guidelines which are so obvious as to be useless, or target behaviors that most normal people engage in on a daily basis.

For example, the general public is advised to look out for people asking "questions regarding sensitive information such as security procedures or systems," which, just... duh. But alternately, you should also be on the lookout for people "demonstrating little interest in an activity," "mumbling to themselves," or talking on cell phones. So, everyone in New York, basically.

Asteroid.

328 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:44:52am

re: #314 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Here's something worse than Axe ads:

[Video]

Lolwut.

329 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:45:07am

re: #323 ggt

Agility training is great for dogs. I set up an agility run for my dobes a few years ago. My male will do stuff only because he knows it makes me happy, the female loves everything and goes at it with pure abandon. She's a lot of fun to watch. She needs a lot of exercise or else she's a monster.

330 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:45:28am

re: #318 ggt

That was horrible.

I'm afraid to click on it. Is it SFW?

331 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:46:12am

re: #330 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I'm afraid to click on it. Is it SFW?

Yep, it's just really stupid.

332 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:46:14am

I'm not going to analyze that PETA ad. Well, I already did. It's freaking weird and kind of gross. Almost dirty, sleazy. Mostly it's dumb and targeting the usual hipster drunkards. Airheads comes to mind. But that's freaking PETA for ya'. They're a cult. South Park made the point a long time ago. If anything they've become counter-productive to their own cause.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:46:51am

re: #332 Gus

It's just sexist.

334 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:46:55am

Humans are omnivores.
Your argument is invalid.

335 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:47:45am

re: #333 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

It's just sexist.

That works. Or that's part of it. Icky. Nasty. Dumb.

This campaign. Sort of reminds me of Stepford Wives, Handmaiden's Tale...

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:48:06am

re: #326 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The ad shows the woman has had violent sex, even sustaining an injury that requires wearing an appliance, and yet she enjoys it and goes back for more!

There may be a few women have this kind of paraphilia but the vast majority of women do not crave such activity. The notion that most women enjoy violent sex is a rapist's fantasy. Most women do not want their partners to become violent and abusive, whether it's from becoming a vegan, taking viagra or some other reason (such as he's their pimp)

Again, I mostly agree with you. I just don't think rape figures in the ad. Otherwise the ad promotes harmful stereotypes/fantasies.

337 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:48:42am

re: #329 RogueOne

Agility training is great for dogs. I set up an agility run for my dobes a few years ago. My male will do stuff only because he knows it makes me happy, the female loves everything and goes at it with pure abandon. She's a lot of fun to watch. She needs a lot of exercise or else she's a monster.

Brat Puppy is a natural in agility. First class he was waiting in line to go thru the tunnel, whining and drooling because he had to wait.

OMG!

338 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:48:55am

I think you're gonna need a bigger shovel...
[Link: photoblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

339 Ming  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:49:24am

re: #36 freetoken

I agree with your comment. I'd like to mention another reason to be concerned about the current manufactured controversies in evolutionary and climate science: the personal lives of the scientific workers themselves. I'm not talking only about their personal safety; that's rarely a concern, I think, these days. What concerns me is a subtle DISINCENTIVE for people to pursue these areas of research in the first place.

It's similar to Charles' recent post about Virginia requiring an invasive medical procedure for women. Anyone thinking about going into that specialty, whether as a doctor, or a nurse, or the technician who prepares the ultrasound device, may be inclined to go into a different field instead. E.g. a young person may choose to become a neurosurgery nurse instead of an ob/gyn nurse.

Similarly, a young person with an interest in evolution, may instead choose to specialize in (say) kidney research. A young person with an interest in climatology may instead go into marine biology.

I have a friend who is a well-respected researcher in marine biology. To be honest, I'm very happy that she is NOT in any "controversial" field.

These incentives / disincentives are obviously subtle, and debatable, but I'm afraid they may affect many thousands of young people who are choosing careers.

These days, tragically, we take it for granted that these questions come up when someone is considering if they want to work in the area of abortion, or birth-control counseling, or even (e.g.) a software engineer at Planned Parenthood. I hope we never see the day where we take the same thng for granted in regard to any young person who's thinking about climate science, or evolutionary biology, as a career.

340 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:51:39am

Too early for brain bleach.

341 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:52:36am

Speaking of the debil, does PETA have any real, tangible good deeds on the animal welfare front? Or all they do is "raise awareness"?

342 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:53:58am

re: #327 Gus

Asteroid.

Don't read this:

Officer threatens to make up evidence after arrest of innocent men
[Link: www.komonews.com...]

Both men said they suffered facial bruises and swelling after one was kicked and the other man-handled into the pavement while being arrested. But then listen to what an officer says on an audio recording after he takes the two to holding cells: "Well, you're going to jail for robbery that's all."

You then hear Franklin ask, "for robbery?" And the officer responds, "Yeah, I'm gonna make stuff up."

Franklin believed him.

"He showed me that he has the power to do whatever he wanted that night," he said. "He has a badge, and all we can do is nothing."

We watched the partial video of their arrest together with Lawson and Franklin. Neither man has a criminal record and they were not charged with anything after the arrest. They both work full-time and go to school. But the night of their arrest they were in the neighborhood near Seattle Center, several blocks away from where an assault was reported.
......
We showed Seattle Police Sergeant Sean Whitcomb the arrest video, and he admits the 'make stuff up' comment was inappropriate. But he says the department's Office of Professional Accountability investigated the complaint and exonerated the officer.
....
"These guys are guilty of being black in Seattle," said attorney Lizanne Padula, who represents Lawson and Franklin. She believes if they'd been white "I think the most that would have happened with those kids police officer would have rolled down his window and said, 'hey, were you guys over in this area?'"

But Officer Brad Richardson, the arresting officer, never questions the two about an assault. Instead, Richardson makes what's called a felony stop, taking cover behind his car door with his gun drawn.

He was exonerated so it's all good.

343 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:54:48am

re: #341 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Speaking of the debil, does PETA have any real, tangible good deeds on the animal welfare front? Or all they do is "raise awareness"?

Ii think they are all about making a lot of money and making celebrities feel good about themselves.

344 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:55:25am

re: #339 Ming

Give it a few years and marine biology will be controversial. Once any studies start coming from that field indicating human action is causing mass die offs or some other large environmental threat is there then the denial groups will start slandering that field as well.

And that's a field my niece wants to go into since she likes cuttlefish.

345 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:56:23am

re: #341 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Speaking of the debil, does PETA have any real, tangible good deeds on the animal welfare front? Or all they do is "raise awareness"?

I don't know how they can raise awareness. Generally speaking I have them on permanent ignore. PETA = Gaze mode.

346 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:56:50am

re: #337 ggt

Brat Puppy is a natural in agility. First class he was waiting in line to go thru the tunnel, whining and drooling because he had to wait.

OMG!

Good! I have as much fun with it as they do. It's great for their confidence levels. It really does make for a well rounded dog.

347 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:56:54am

re: #343 ggt

Ii think they are all about making a lot of money and making celebrities feel good about themselves.

You mean the other 1 percenters? ;)

348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:57:58am

re: #345 Gus

I don't know how they can raise awareness. Generally speaking I have them on permanent ignore. PETA = Gaze mode.

Years ago, I went to a Renaissance Fair. At one of the booths (I think they were selling pelts of some sort) I asked what they did if PETA people got in. The lady said they had a way of stopping them at the door.

teehee

349 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:58:01am

re: #343 ggt

Ii think they are all about making a lot of money and making celebrities feel good about themselves.

This might explain Chris Brown then. Not all of course. But there's a certain, how shall I put it. Element. The flip side of the religious right crazies?

350 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:58:31am

re: #345 Gus

I don't know how they can raise awareness. Generally speaking I have them on permanent ignore. PETA = Gaze mode.

Ditto.
I don't know if that analogy will tell you anything, but for me they're an equivalent of Zhirinovsky (and I don't mean the bigoted views, altho that is an added "bonus"). Does anybody take them seriously, rather than as a clownish organization?

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:59:44am

re: #349 Gus

This might explain Chris Brown then. Not all of course. But there's a certain, how shall I put it. Element. The flip side of the religious right crazies?

Yeah, the people who seem to NEED something to proselytize about go from Jesus to furs rather quickly.

The problem is they tend to discredit any cause they adopt.

352 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 6:59:45am

re: #350 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Ditto.
I don't know if that analogy will tell you anything, but for me they're an equivalent of Zhirinovsky (and I don't mean the bigoted views, altho that is an added "bonus"). Does anybody take them seriously, rather than a clownish organization?

FEMEN?

353 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:00:29am

re: #352 Gus

FEMEN?

Bingo!

354 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:01:11am

But at least FEMEN girls aren't really offensive ;)

355 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:01:22am

re: #350 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Ditto.
I don't know if that analogy will tell you anything, but for me they're an equivalent of Zhirinovsky (and I don't mean the bigoted views, altho that is an added "bonus"). Does anybody take them seriously, rather than a clownish organization?

I think they're trying to do what they can by raising awareness. Sure they go overboard occasionally (fishing is murder!) but I think they're usually being honest and sincere. I dated a couple PETA girls as a young man, they can be fun.

356 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:01:42am

re: #351 ggt

Yeah, the people who seem to NEED something to proselytize about go from Jesus to furs rather quickly.

The problem is they tend to discredit any cause they adopt.

My husband used to swear there were professional protesters. They would follow the seasons. Furs in the Winter, Abortion Clinics in the Summer.

357 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:02:43am

re: #349 Gus

The flip side of the religious right crazies?

I would certainly call radical animal rights groups the flip side of anti-abortion-rights groups. Some even engage in the same terrorist activities (e.g. bombing research facilities and labs instead of abortion clinics).

What they both seem to have in common (besides being violent, self-righteous, fanatical douchebags) is elevating what they see as "pure" and "innocent" life above icky, already-existing humans.

358 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:03:12am

re: #354 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

But at least FEMEN girls aren't really offensive ;)

They're on the same, planet. Or close. I can see FEMEN moving onto PETA style campaigning pretty soon. They both already play with objectified views of women. NTTAWT per se (we all have our own sexual desires) but there's something extremely odd in the way it's presented.

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:03:20am

Somehow, I always thought wear a fur would be more environmentally friendly than wearing some fake plastic fiber.

360 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:04:30am
361 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:04:39am

re: #358 Gus

FEMEN doesn't take itself too seriously, IMHO. It's a performance, and everybody is "in" on it.

362 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:05:00am

re: #361 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

FEMEN doesn't take itself too seriously, IMHO. It's a performance, and everybody is "in" on it.

Even the cops?

363 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:05:10am

re: #341 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Speaking of the debil, does PETA have any real, tangible good deeds on the animal welfare front? Or all they do is "raise awareness"?

They are known to have killed large numbers of cats and dogs that were given to them to place in adoptive homes.

Also, they provide career opportunities for young, aspiring porn actresses.

364 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:05:20am

re: #354 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

But at least FEMEN girls aren't really offensive ;)

I would be happy to donate to a protest group like FEMEN. If only to get their monthly newsletter...

365 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:06:22am

re: #349 Gus

This might explain Chris Brown then. Not all of course. But there's a certain, how shall I put it. Element. The flip side of the religious right crazies?

Fanatics in general. It's quite possible for just about anyone to obsess about something*. But it seems that some gravitate to certain issues, and then make outlandish demands in a more or less illogical belief set-up that contradicts reality and the current cultural bounds.

And there seems to be no end to those who have sufficient organizational skills to group these fanatics and harness their energy and resources for gain and power (of a sort).

* - Object and degree of obsession can obviously vary in degree of harmlessness. Geeky obsessions might draw derision, but most times are not deemed a massive threat to society except for other fanatic groups of course.

366 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:06:50am

re: #357 Interesting Times

I would certainly call radical animal rights groups the flip side of anti-abortion-rights groups. Some even engage in the same terrorist activities (e.g. bombing research facilities and labs instead of abortion clinics).

What they both seem to have in common (besides being violent, self-righteous, fanatical douchebags) is elevating what they see as "pure" and "innocent" life above icky, already-existing humans.

"...and, of course, the Squirrels".

367 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:07:35am

re: #362 Gus

Even the cops?

What about the cops? Should they not do their work because they know it's an act?

368 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:08:13am

re: #348 ggt

Years ago, I went to a Renaissance Fair. At one of the booths (I think they were selling pelts of some sort) I asked what they did if PETA people got in. The lady said they had a way of stopping them at the door.

teehee

Medieval weapons and torture apparatus will do that.

But then again, PETA thinks women enjoy that. :(

369 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:08:56am

re: #367 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

What about the cops? Should they not do their work because they know it's an act?

No. Just looking at the photos. Kind of looks like the cops are working with them. Maybe that's for "obvious" reasons? I still think it's weird. They all look the same. Have the same body types. They're like these attractive aliens or something.

370 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:10:50am

re: #369 Gus

No. Just looking at the photos. Kind of looks like the cops are working with them. Maybe that's for "obvious" reasons? I still think it's weird. They all look the same. Have the same body types. They're like these attractive aliens or something.

Weird, I noticed that too// Must be something in the water.

371 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:10:50am

re: #369 Gus

No. Just looking at the photos. Kind of looks like the cops are working with them. Maybe that's for "obvious" reasons? I still think it's weird. They all look the same. Have the same body types. They're like these attractive aliens or something.

In some actions they do employ less, ah, "Playboy"-like women.
The cops just deal with disturbances, as they would in other cases, IMHO.

372 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:11:02am

One of the other problems being that PETA gets thrown on "teh left!"

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:12:39am

re: #372 Gus

One of the other problems being that PETA gets thrown on "teh left!"

That's because of the whole environmentalism thing.

Of course, strictly speaking, it's not or should not be a left/right issue. There are various neo-Pagans with neo-Nazi views who will be all about Mother Nature etc., etc.

374 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:12:48am

re: #371 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I like protesters, the fact they look like Playboy models has nothing to do with it...

375 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:13:05am

PETA! Occupy Wall Street! Hippies! Pepper spray!

//

376 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:13:14am

re: #373 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

That's because of the whole environmentalism thing.

Of course, strictly speaking, it's not or should not be a left/right issue. There are various neo-Pagans with neo-Nazi views who will be all about Mother Nature etc., etc.

Druids are the worst!

377 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:13:51am

re: #374 RogueOne

I like protesters, the fact they look like Playboy models has nothing to do with it...

So you would read their newsletter just for the articles (written in Ukrainian, of course)?/

378 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:13:59am

Greets and saluts from the dank and overcast NYC metro area.

The situation in Syria is worsening by the day, and the UN still hasn't acted in a concrete fashion. The Arab League is circulating a resolution in the General Assembly, but that's a non-binding action. Russia and China continue blocking any more serious action in the Security Council, but France and the Arab League are trying to rewrite a resolution that will pass muster.

At the same time, Assad's announcing that they'll be holding a referendum on a new constitution at the end of the month. That happens all while the regime continues shelling civilian populations in Hama, Homs, and even sending in elite forces to go after rebel forces in Damascus suburbs. There are reports that Assad's forces are using chemical weapons, but I would discount those reports until we see actual proof of use. The US has been monitoring known Syrian chemical weapons sites for activity - to prevent proliferation, and they would likely see unusual activity such as taking weapons from those stockpiles for use.

If the claims by defecting soldiers that chemical weapons are indeed being used, then the pressure for the United Nations to act increases significantly because Assad would then be in violation of the Geneva Conventions, The Rome Statute (establishing the ICC and provides for crimes against humanity and war crimes), Chemical Weapons Conventions although Syria is not a signatory to the CWC.

379 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:14:25am

re: #373 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Or J.R.R. Tolkien, for that matter. Who was hardly liberal.

380 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:14:53am

re: #376 RogueOne

Druids are the worst!

Them and hagravens. Ice Spikes and some lightning bolts do the trick tho.

381 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:15:05am

re: #377 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

So you would read their newsletter just for the articles (written in Ukrainian, of course)?/

I can't make out what they're saying but the pics help paint the whole picture. I stand firm with FEMEN, no pun intended.

382 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:16:14am

re: #381 RogueOne

I can't make out what they're saying but the pics help paint the whole picture. I stand firm with FEMEN, no pun intended.

YOU LIE!!!
/

383 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:16:15am

re: #380 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Them and hagravens. Ice Spikes and some lightning bolts do the trick tho.

We had a druid in my Basic Training class who turned out to be a bit of a racist, to put it nicely. He didn't make it. Fell in the shower and broke his arm.

384 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:16:49am

re: #383 RogueOne

We had a druid in my Basic Training class who turned out to be a bit of a racist, to put it nicely. He didn't make it. Fell in the shower and broke his arm.

LOL!

385 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:17:48am

Lots of neo-Pagans aren't New Age hippies. "Norse blood", all that shit.

386 Kronocide  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:18:53am

John Christy at it again.

387 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:18:56am

re: #384 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

LOL!

Yeah, weirdest accident ever. The fact he was throwing around the "N" word for a week prior to the accident played no role.

388 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:19:34am

re: #387 RogueOne

Yeah, weirdest accident ever. The fact he was throwing around the "N" word for a week prior to the accident played no role.

Ah. I'm glad that he was dealt with by Mother Nature herself./

389 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:21:26am

Ann Coulter's "God gave us Earth to rape" approach is actually more of a Bolshevik stuff that classical wingnuttery. Funny that.

390 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:22:02am

Nasdaq Web Site Shut Down By Denial Of Service Attacks

As The Guardian notes, Credit for the Nasdaq attack is being claimed by a group called “Operation Digital Tornado by L0NGwave99.”

The group said in a statement that “this DDoS Operation over NASDAQ is done in support of the great and rooted 99% movement, whom the L0NGwave99 Group has decided to give a present.”

391 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:22:41am

Boehner giving a press conference about the payroll tax cut. He says a deal is done, took a couple questions, and it's over.

392 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:24:23am

re: #373 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

That's because of the whole environmentalism thing.

Of course, strictly speaking, it's not or should not be a left/right issue. There are various neo-Pagans with neo-Nazi views who will be all about Mother Nature etc., etc.

I thought the whole neo-pagan neo-nazi thing was all about disagreeing with authority on issues the kids don't like.

393 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:25:04am

re: #392 ggt

I thought the whole neo-pagan neo-nazi thing was all about disagreeing with authority on issues the kids don't like.

Isn't that the hippie stuff? /

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:25:43am

re: #393 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Isn't that the hippie stuff? /

Isn't it all about the same?

395 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:26:26am

Worst Valentines day ever:

SWAT standoff with fellow Indianapolis officer ends
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

A distraught Indianapolis police officer toting Valentine’s Day gifts kept a SWAT team at bay for four hours Tuesday at a Northside park before surrendering without incident.
...
He surrendered at 1 p.m. and was placed into an ambulance that took him to Wishard Memorial Hospital for psychological evaluation and treatment. No shots were fired and no one was injured.

Police said Ratcliff was carrying a small box of candy, a greeting card and a stuffed Minnie Mouse. Investigators would not say what triggered the standoff.

396 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:26:40am

re: #394 ggt

Isn't it all about the same?

I don't know. I haven't read studies on that, if there are any. I prefer hippies tho ;)

397 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:27:14am

re: #396 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I don't know. I haven't read studies on that, if there are any. I prefer hippies tho ;)

Young adults, costumes, make-up . . . . .

398 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:29:14am

re: #397 ggt

Young adults, costumes, make-up . . .

I don't know about the age make-up of neo-Pagans in the US, so I can't comment on that.

399 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:35:14am

Update I missed yesterday on the Marine shot dead by police in OC, CA:

New Details Released in Marine's Death
Described by friends as a devout Christian and mentor to his fellow Marines, Manuel Loggins was shot and killed during a confrontation with deputies on Feb. 7
[Link: www.nbcsandiego.com...]

As the district attorney’s office continues its investigation, the Association of Orange County Deputy Sheriffs released information about interviews conducted after the deadly confrontation.

Sgt. Manuel Loggins, Jr., described by friends as a devout Christian and mentor to his fellow Marines, was shot and killed during a confrontation with deputies outside a high school in Orange County Feb. 7.

The association said a deputy saw Loggins plow a car through a gate at San Clemente High School then walk away.

His daughters, ages 9 and 14, could be heard screaming in the SUV, and when approached by sheriff's personnel reported their father had been acting oddly, the statement said.

Meanwhile, it said, Loggins – who was not in military uniform -- could be heard in a nearby field yelling irrational statements.

When Loggins returned, he allegedly ignored warnings by deputies not to start the SUV.

A deputy shot him, fearing for the children's safety, the statement said.

I hope there is dash video

400 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:35:40am

have a great day all!

401 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:38:53am

Missed this too: Tony Baloney sued:

Two Occupy Wall St. protesters sue the cop who pepper-sprayed them
Anthony Bologna target of women's lawsuit
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

A high-ranking cop who pepper-sprayed penned-in Occupy Wall Street protesters has been zapped with a lawsuit by two women who were in the line of fire.

Chelsea Elliott and Jeanne Mansfield are suing Deputy Inspector Anthony Bologna in Manhattan Federal Court for blasting them in the face with pepper-spray during a protest last Sept. 24 near Union Square.

The incident was caught on video, and 1.5 million people watched it on YouTube, prompting outrage and drawing attention to the Occupy Wall Street movement.

Bologna was docked 10 days of vacation for violating NYPD regulations.

402 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:39:15am

re: #399 RogueOne

Update I missed yesterday on the Marine shot dead by police in OC, CA:

New Details Released in Marine's Death
Described by friends as a devout Christian and mentor to his fellow Marines, Manuel Loggins was shot and killed during a confrontation with deputies on Feb. 7
[Link: www.nbcsandiego.com...]

I hope there is dash video

Well. You know why they shot him of course.

403 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:39:50am

re: #402 Gus

Well. You know why they shot him of course.

The war on religion?/////

404 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:40:02am

re: #401 RogueOne

Good. In a better world they would take every single cent this ... has.

405 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:41:11am

re: #403 RogueOne

The war on religion?///

This happened at 4:45 AM. What the fuck are they talking about "danger to children"?

406 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:43:09am

They shot him because he's black. B-l-a-c-k.

407 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:45:45am

re: #405 Gus

This happened at 4:45 AM. What the fuck are they talking about "danger to children"?

That seemed awfully early to me also. Here's one of the other stories:

Marine killed by O.C. deputy outside school wasn't armed, sheriff says
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

A Marine sergeant fatally shot by an Orange County Sheriff's deputy in a dark San Clemente high school parking lot this week was not armed and the incident doesn't appear to be alcohol- or drug-related, sheriff's officials said.
...
A former commanding officer said Loggins routinely went to the school during the early morning with his daughters to walk the track and read the Bible.

About 4:30 a.m. on the day of the shooting, the deputy was doing paperwork inside his car near San Clemente High School when he said he saw Loggins driving a white GMC Yukon at an "unsafe, high rate of speed" into the school parking lot, Amormino said.

The SUV, according to Amormino, crashed through a locked gate and the deputy pulled in behind him.

The officer might be telling the entire truth but I think I've read enough other stories that I'm unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm really hoping there is video of all this somewhere.

408 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:47:57am

re: #406 Gus

or M-E-T-H

409 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:48:03am

re: #406 Gus

They shot him because he's black. B-l-a-c-k.

I've read the story now, and it's not a complete he said/she said situation. I assume that if there's foul play, the testimony of the daughters will contradict the police testimony. Also, "plow a car through a gate" - does it mean he crashed the gate? If so, this is also verifiable. IOW, if there's foul play, there will be stench.

410 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:48:15am

re: #407 RogueOne

That seemed awfully early to me also. Here's one of the other stories:

Marine killed by O.C. deputy outside school wasn't armed, sheriff says
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

The officer might be telling the entire truth but I think I've read enough other stories that I'm unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm really hoping there is video of all this somewhere.

And after the crash he could have been disoriented or suffering from some other kind of injury. Possibly a brain injury. He was unarmed. No drugs and alcohol. Bleh. They'll sweep it under the rug.

411 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:50:35am

re: #410 Gus

Or it may have been a stupid accident while he was still sleepy and the officer took angry tired muttering for "weird enough to shoot".

412 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:50:43am

re: #409 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I've read the story now, and it's not a complete he said/she said situation. I assume that if there's foul play, the testimony of the daughters will contradict the police testimony. Also, "plow a car through a gate" - does it mean he crashed the gate? If so, this is also verifiable. IOW, if there's foul play, there will be stench.

Pfft. The cops will word everything to their advantage. The cop that killed him will claim a medical disability due to duress and get a desk assignment. Upon retirement he'll get his pension and start double dipping. SNAFU

413 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:51:20am

re: #408 Tommy

or M-E-T-H

The cop may have taken it for that but we now know it wasn't drugs or alcohol.

414 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:51:45am

re: #412 Gus

Pfft. The cops will word everything to their advantage. The cop that killed him will claim a medical disability due to duress and get a desk assignment. Upon retirement he'll get his pension and start double dipping. SNAFU

Is there a scandal brewing around this case? This could change the outcome.

415 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:51:50am

re: #411 RogueOne

Or it may have been a stupid accident while he was still sleepy and the officer took angry tired muttering for "weird enough to shoot".

Shoot first. Ask questions later. Humans are expendable.

Just make sure they eat the right foods first though.

416 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:52:57am

re: #414 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Is there a scandal brewing around this case? This could change the outcome.

The Thin Blue Line. There won't be any outcome. This is Murica. Cops are always right. Even if he's wrong he'll get what? 3 years on a manslaughter charge?

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:53:51am

re: #416 Gus

*sigh* I've read enough of Rogue's stories to believe that.

418 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:53:56am
419 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:54:40am

So "acting oddly" is a death sentence. Right. Got it deputies union.

420 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:55:33am

Maybe he had a stroke. Maybe a tumor became dislodged.

Oh fuck it. Kill him.

God bless Murica.

421 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:55:39am

re: #413 RogueOne

I don't think eight days is enough for blood tests, how else would they determine if he was on drugs, interviews with family? Sometimes they are the last to know.

422 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:55:49am

re: #414 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Is there a scandal brewing around this case? This could change the outcome.

It's being investigated by the prosecutor which typically means it will end up being declared "justified". I'm trying to keep an open mind here but the fact that he was an active duty marine going about his normal daily routine leads me to believe this is all a massive misunderstanding.

423 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:56:49am

re: #418 Gus

The Union shouldn't be talking yet. It should be under investigation and they should say no comment. That's not a good sign.

424 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:57:09am

New to the page today but this seems like yet another tragedy. I hate reading stories like this so much.

425 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:58:11am

File under "fucking disgusting:"

Female genital mutilation rife in Egypt despite ban

Astonishingly, in 21st Century Egypt, the latest figures suggest that over 90% of the women have been subject to female genital mutilation (FGM). The figure comes from a Unicef approved survey carried out in 2008, the year that the practice was banned.
...
The practice is not restricted to Muslims, as has often been claimed, but also carried out by Christians, who make up 10% of Egypt's population.

The practice predates the arrival of either religion in Egypt - there is evidence that it was practised back in Pharaonic times.

Why do people do this stupid, brutal thing? Hatred and fear of female sexuality:

The belief there is that it is the female who is sexually rampant and that her sexual desire must be arrested at a young age, before she can disgrace the family.

"It is important that she loses that part of her body that awakes sexual desire. If not, she may play with herself or ask a boy to touch this part for her, not specifically a stranger, but one of her cousins for instance, and she might enjoy it," Olla told me. "When she feels the pain of it she will be more careful about this part."

[everything else redacted in the interests of protecting my LGF account]

426 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:00:05am

re: #425 Interesting Times

File under "fucking disgusting:"

Female genital mutilation rife in Egypt despite ban

Why do people do this stupid, brutal thing? Hatred and fear of female sexuality:

[everything else redacted in the interests of protecting my LGF account]

It's really messed up to say the least.

427 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:00:11am

Here's what I don't get about the shooting. Say all the cops said is true. Why would the lethal, rather than simply disabling, shooting be necessary?

428 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:01:33am

re: #416 Gus

The Thin Blue Line. There won't be any outcome. This is Murica. Cops are always right. Even if he's wrong he'll get what? 3 years on a manslaughter charge?

Twinkie defense.

429 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:01:38am

re: #427 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Here's what I don't get about the shooting. Say all the cops said is true. Why would the lethal, rather than simply disabling, shooting be necessary?

He probably unloaded on him.

430 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:02:08am

re: #425 Interesting Times

but also carried out by Christians, who make up 10% of Egypt's population.

The practice predates the arrival of either religion in Egypt - there is evidence that it was practised back in Pharaonic times.

For 000G.

431 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:03:16am

re: #428 Bishop Cornwallis Gobbletot

Twinkie defense.

Dan White

Harvey Milk

432 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:03:45am

re: #265 Gus

What would a food-atheist eat?

//

Nutten Honey

433 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:05:48am

re: #431 Gus

Dan White

Harvey Milk

White served five years of his seven-year sentence at Soledad State Prison and was paroled on January 7, 1984.

That's right folks. Assassinate a mayor and a city supervisor. Go to jail for a lousy 5 to 7 years.

434 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:06:45am

re: #432 RayFerd

Nutten Honey

Image: images.jpg

435 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:06:58am

re: #425 Interesting Times

Why do people do this stupid, brutal thing? Hatred and fear of female sexuality:

Because that's what their parents did. And their parents' parents. And their parents' parents' parents. Traditionalism. AKA social conservatism.

436 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:06:59am

And people wonder why they rioted after they announced White's sentence. Yeah, he killed himself in the end. But that doesn't change the fact that he was treated lightly.

437 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:07:26am

re: #425 Interesting Times

re: #426 HappyWarrior

Don't want to go all cultural-relativey, but humans do a lot of crazy painful shit under lot of impulses.

[Link: sm76626.files.wordpress.com...]

Image: face_tattoos_08.jpg

438 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:08:16am
439 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:08:27am

re: #433 Gus

White served five years of his seven-year sentence at Soledad State Prison and was paroled on January 7, 1984.

That's right folks. Assassinate a mayor and a city supervisor. Go to jail for a lousy 5 to 7 years.

Sheesh.

440 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:09:02am

re: #438 Gus

Ooph, thank God, finally! Now we can put Fischer in the camp.

///need I?

441 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:09:11am

re: #438 Gus

The bastard wants to be persecuted so bad.

442 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:09:12am

re: #439 HappyWarrior

Sheesh.

Sick shit.

443 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:09:56am

re: #437 Decatur Deb

re: #426 HappyWarrior

Don't want to go all cultural-relativey, but humans do a lot of crazy painful shit under lot of impulses.

[Link: sm76626.files.wordpress.com...]

Image: face_tattoos_23.jpg

Ouch. "scarification":

Image: scar_tattoo_8.jpg

In this case, the guy is right.

444 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:10:16am

re: #442 Gus

Sick shit.

I know. I was watching an A&E special about bizzare defenses one day and the Twinkie defense was one of them. My then 8 year old brother came in and was amazed that such a thing could be used to get someone off a murder charge.

445 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:11:59am

re: #440 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Ooph, thank God, finally! Now we can put Fischer in the camp.

///need I?

re: #441 HappyWarrior

The bastard wants to be persecuted so bad.

The voice of American Family Association.

446 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:12:06am
447 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:15:14am

Now imagine a highly advanced intelligent life form from another planet watching all of this.

//

448 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:16:07am

re: #423 Obdicut

The Union shouldn't be talking yet. It should be under investigation and they should say no comment. That's not a good sign.

Semi-related, we've talked about this issue before:

A New Way to Punish Oakland Cops?
[Link: www.eastbayexpress.com...]

Federal Judge Thelton Henderson and the court monitors overseeing the Oakland Police Department have been frustrated for years by the lack of accountability in the department when it comes to police officer misconduct. Typically, the department places officers accused of wrongdoing on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of an internal affairs investigation. But then if internal affairs recommends an officer be disciplined, or even fired, that recommendation often is overturned later by an arbitrator.
....
Henderson is considering holding officers in contempt of court if they violate a sweeping set of police reforms in the consent decree that stems from the Riders case. These reforms cover nearly every aspect of police conduct, so the judge, in effect, could discipline officers even if an arbitrator says they shouldn't be.

The judge decided to explore this new path in the wake of an Oakland police officer's decision to tape over his nametag during a confrontation with Occupy Oakland protesters following the November 2 General Strike. In a January 27 order, Henderson stated that officers accused of misconduct could be subjected to investigation by the Independent Monitoring Team that oversees OPD's federal consent decree.

It sounds like a brilliant idea, not sure it's entirely within the rights of the judge, but we'll see I guess.

449 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:17:56am

re: #435 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Because that's what their parents did. And their parents' parents. And their parents' parents' parents. Traditionalism. AKA social conservatism.

Yes! It's social conservatism taken to its logical extreme (i.e. fear and hatred of non-approved sexual acts, especially those that please women and/or don't make babies). Though white-supremacist types try to paint this as something only Africans/Muslims do, it was done in the Western world as recently as the 1950s for ostensibly "medical reasons":

It’s important to remember FGM is not exclusive to one religion or social class. It is older than Christianity and Islam. Egyptian mummies are said to display characteristics of mutilation. And as recent as the 1950s, partial or total removal of the clitoris was prescribed in western Europe and the United States in response to hysteria, epilepsy, mental disorders, masturbation, nymphomania, melancholia and lesbianism.

Again, the root of this evil is misogyny and all its concurrent fucked-up views about sex.

450 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:20:05am

re: #341 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Speaking of the debil, does PETA have any real, tangible good deeds on the animal welfare front? Or all they do is "raise awareness"?

Dunno about real, tangible good -- but I liked their April Fools' Day joke of a few years back.

"...in 2000 the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Organization (PETA) convinced many (that) its members planned to slip tranquilizers into Lake Palestine prior to the Red Man Cowboy Division Fishing Tournament. The fish would doze while the fishermen grew red, Peta said. Park rangers were dispatched to patrol the area to prevent animal lovers from doping the water to protect the fishes, yet the math of it should have ruled this one a joke -- to drug the 25,500 acre reservoir containing 40 billion gallons of water would have taken enough Sominex to fill three Exxon Valdezes."

Snopes - April Fools' Day Pranks

451 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:20:25am

re: #447 Gus

Now imagine a highly advanced intelligent life form from another planet watching all of this.

//

I find it amusing.

452 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:21:09am

re: #451 Varek Raith

I find it amusing.

Bad enough humans have elevators. ;)

454 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:22:52am

re: #444 HappyWarrior

I give you the Chewbacca defense:

455 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:23:03am

Black Bloc Causes Backlash Against Occupy
[Link: www.eastbayexpress.com...]

When UC Davis police Lieutenant John Pike casually pepper sprayed Occupy protesters last fall, the shocking incident spurred outrage around the globe. Pike seemed to epitomize institutionalized callousness over income inequality and police brutality. But there’s reason to believe that if Pike or another misguided cop pepper sprayed protesters today it would produce a far more muted response. In fact, a significant portion of the population, turned off by violent Black Bloc tactics at Occupy Oakland protests, might even think that Pike would be justified.

Case in point: A federal jury in San Francisco yesterday exonerated a UC Berkeley cop for smashing the fingers of a student protester with a club in 2009 after she had rested her hand on a fence. Prominent Oakland defense attorney John Burris, who represented the UC student and is perhaps one of the most progressive lawyers in Northern California, told the Chron that the jury’s surprising verdict could be attributed to anger and frustration over violent Occupy Oakland protests. “What’s been taking place with the occupiers, there was an undercurrent in the case that was hurtful,” Burris said.

....a KPIX-TV commissioned poll found that 57 percent of Bay Area respondents now say they oppose Occupy, almost opposite of what polls showed last fall.
......
The Black Bloc, in short, is not only severely harming Occupy’s reputation in the liberal Bay Area, but the violent actions of the group appear to be prompting residents to side with police who brutalize protesters — even when those protesters are not involved in Occupy demonstrations.

456 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:23:09am

re: #453 Varek Raith

He will, however, serve at least one entire term without suddenly wimping out.

457 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:23:17am

re: #453 Varek Raith

Palin: Obama Is "Not Fit To Hold This Office" Because He Won't Take "Responsibility For Mistakes"

lol

IOW she thinks Obama should quit like she did. Or something.

//

458 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:24:19am

re: #453 Varek Raith

Palin: Obama Is "Not Fit To Hold This Office" Because He Won't Take "Responsibility For Mistakes"

lol

America's Favorite Half Term governor shouldn't be commenting on anyone's leadership abilities. Just saying. When you quit on your state to become a full time right wing shill, you lose credibility. Sorry Sarah no dice.

459 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:26:09am

re: #454 lawhawk

I give you the Chewbacca defense:

[Link: www.southparkstudios.com...]

You're late!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

//

460 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:26:42am
461 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:28:21am

Wait. Apparently he's been a holy roller for some time now.

462 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:28:44am

re: #444 HappyWarrior

I know. I was watching an A&E special about bizzare defenses one day and the Twinkie defense was one of them. My then 8 year old brother came in and was amazed that such a thing could be used to get someone off a murder charge.

I'd say Darrow's defense of Leopold and Loeb comes rather close to this at times ;)

463 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:29:28am
464 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:29:43am

re: #453 Varek Raith

The President wont take responsibility for mistakes? Really:

President Obama, somber and chastened in defeat, today pledged to listen to what voters were saying when they voted Democrats out of control of the House and state legislatures across the country.
“Yesterday’s vote confirmed what I’ve heard from folks all across America,” he said in an opening statement at a postelection news conference in the East Room of the White House. “People are frustrated. They’re deeply frustrated with the pace of our economic recovery.”
He claimed to have made “progress” in ending the recession. But he acknowledged, “Too many Americans haven’t felt that progress yet, and they told us that yesterday. And as president, I take responsibility for that.”

[Link: www.nationaljournal.com...]

Apparently Palin is rehashing the same empty rhetoric she's been serving up since 2008.

465 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:31:53am

re: #455 RogueOne

Black Bloc Causes Backlash Against Occupy
[Link: www.eastbayexpress.com...]

I also think the full context from video of the UC Davis incident puts things in a different perspective. OWS and their supporters were too preoccupied with protecting the image of the movement rather than facing the realities, cleaning house and making it productive.

466 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:31:55am

re: #461 Gus

Wait. Apparently he's been a holy roller for some time now.

Does not compute.
/

467 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:32:01am

re: #453 Varek Raith

Palin: Obama Is "Not Fit To Hold This Office" Because He Won't Take "Responsibility For Mistakes"

lol

Since everything is Obama's fault, he'd never get anything done if he spent 24/7 apologizing.

468 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:32:36am

re: #460 Gus

Megaderp.

469 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:33:27am

re: #465 Killgore Trout

I also think the full context from video of the UC Davis incident puts things in a different perspective. OWS and their supporters were too preoccupied with protecting the image of the movement rather than facing the realities, cleaning house and making it productive.

No, it doesn't put the wanton and needless act of macing in a different perspective. Altho somebody hellbent on defending the cops at whatever the cost might think so, of course.

470 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:34:06am

re: #464 lawhawk

Apparently Palin is rehashing the same empty rhetoric she's been serving up since 2008.

It's all she knows.

471 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:35:00am

Heh. Comment at Watts up with that.

Glenn Tamblyn says:
February 14, 2012 at 7:38 pm

Anthony, when will the new Temperature website be up and running? I’m sure Heartland and their Anonymous Donor would like to know their $88K is being well spent.

And nearly $400K for the NIPCC Report. A bit pricy don’t you think when the scientists who work on the IPCC report do it Pro Bono.

Still $144K for Craig Idso, $60K for Fred Singer, even $20K for Bob Carter down in Australia. One only needs a few nice gigs like that and you have yourself a ‘nice little earner’ as they say.

472 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:35:14am

re: #469 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

No, it doesn't put the wanton and needless act of macing in a different perspective. Altho somebody hellbent on defending the cops at whatever the cost might think so, of course.

Exactly.

Nothing puts that mace incident "into perspective" unless you think that police brutality against unarmed and seated people is okay.

473 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:35:30am

re: #463 Varek Raith

Image: sense-this-picture-makes-none.jpg

I'll take Weird Celeb Political Endorsements for 800, Alex. I don't know Mustaine's music that well though.

474 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:36:40am

re: #460 Gus

Megadeth frontman Dave Mustaine endorses Santorum

Well that settles it for me.// I got 5 stiches in my face at a Megadeath show. Trump endorsed Romney and Mustaine likes Santorum, advantage Santorum.

475 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:37:00am

re: #468 BongCrodny

Megaderp.

I love megadeath but that's funny

476 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:37:54am

re: #474 RogueOne

Well that settles it for me.// I got 5 stiches in my face at a Megadeath show. Trump endorsed Romney and Mustaine likes Santorum, advantage Santorum.

I guess a Republican finally found a rock band they can use. Intro to a Santorum appearance: lead in with Megadeath.

477 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:37:57am
478 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:38:51am

re: #477 Lidane

From the culture wars:

Glenn Beck Launches "We Are All Catholics Now" Lobbying Effort

Except not really. In fact a majority disagree:

NYT: Support Is Found for Birth Control Coverage and Gay Unions

Dammit, Glenn!
I had just managed to forget about you.

479 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:38:58am

re: #477 Lidane

From the culture wars:

Glenn Beck Launches "We Are All Catholics Now" Lobbying Effort

Except not really. In fact a majority disagree:

NYT: Support Is Found for Birth Control Coverage and Gay Unions

But not in New Jersey.

//

480 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:39:01am

re: #475 RogueOne

I love megadeath but that's funny

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all the week. Try the veal.

481 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:39:36am

re: #480 BongCrodny

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all the week. Try the veal.

I heard they use milk in preparing a veal dish.

//

482 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:39:57am

re: #477 Lidane

Glenn Burp.

483 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:40:17am

re: #475 RogueOne

I don't think I've heard a Megadeth song, so I feel meh.

484 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:40:18am

re: #478 Varek Raith

Dammit, Glenn!
I had just managed to forget about you.

Hey, the pockets are empty.

485 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:40:40am

re: #477 Lidane

From the culture wars:

Glenn Beck Launches "We Are All Catholics Now" Lobbying Effort

Except not really. In fact a majority disagree:

NYT: Support Is Found for Birth Control Coverage and Gay Unions

Except for when Catholics start embracing social justice, then they're prognazis.

486 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:41:38am

re: #483 ProGunLiberal

I don't think I've heard a Megadeth song, so I feel meh.

I don't think I have either. I've never been a metal fan. In fact, the final trivia question Monday night was name the album that Detroit Rock City was on.
My answer written in caps:
KISS SUCKS!

487 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:42:21am

Mustaine is kind of a right wing guy, or at least he's become that. According to an Amazon review, two of his favorite shows are Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

I always thought heavy metal -- like punk -- was about non-conformity. I can't think of a bigger outlet screaming "CONFORM!" than Fox.

488 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:42:43am

Never heard a Megadeth song???
WTF?!?!

489 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:42:48am

re: #476 Gus

I guess a Republican finally found a rock band they can use. Intro to a Santorum appearance: lead in with Megadeath.

Can you imagine the reaction of the blue haired RNC crowd if they opened with Symphony of Destruction? I'd pay to see that!

Perfect for a Gingrich Rally:

Megadeth - Angry Again

490 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:44:59am

re: #488 Varek Raith

Prolly don't even know where Mustaine got his start.

491 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:45:17am

re: #489 RogueOne

Perfect for a Gingrich Rally:

Megadeth - Angry Again

[Video]

How 'bout "The Right To Go Insane"?

Although I can see problems deciding which candidate to loan it to...

492 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:45:58am

re: #487 BongCrodny

Mustaine is kind of a right wing guy, or at least he's become that. According to an Amazon review, two of his favorite shows are Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

I always thought heavy metal -- like punk -- was about non-conformity. I can't think of a bigger outlet screaming "CONFORM!" than Fox.

Well look at this way, he's non conforming within his community.

493 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:46:09am

Guess that means we should be haring of a Republican endorsement from Gene Simmons any moment now.

494 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:47:06am

re: #493 Gus

Guess that means we should be haring of a Republican endorsement from Gene Simmons any moment now.

Aren't Gene Simmons and Dick Cheney supposed to be really good friends? I remember hearing that and thinking man that's an odd friendship.

495 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:47:43am

re: #494 HappyWarrior

Aren't Gene Simmons and Dick Cheney supposed to be really good friends? I remember hearing that and thinking man that's an odd friendship.

Wouldn't surprise me.

496 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:49:11am

re: #495 Gus

Wouldn't surprise me.

The Douche and The Dick. The match made in heaven.

497 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:49:40am

re: #487 BongCrodny

I always thought heavy metal -- like punk -- was about non-conformity. I can't think of a bigger outlet screaming "CONFORM!" than Fox.

Punk maybe, since it tends to be a lot more anti-authority and socially liberal.

Metal has always had a high-testosterone wingnutty vibe to it, especially among older metal fans. I remember going to a hair metal message board a long time ago for laughs and finding a LOT of wingnuts there. Ever wonder who Ted Nugent's talk show appeals to? Yeah.

498 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:50:45am

re: #455 RogueOne

Black Bloc Causes Backlash Against Occupy
[Link: www.eastbayexpress.com...]

This has been a problem with them since the early '00s. It's a major reason I quit going to those antiwar protests/wastes of shoe leather.

499 Sionainn  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:51:14am

I've always thought Dave Mustaine was a whiny guy. No surprise to me that he would endorse Santorum. All that victimhood crap.

500 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:51:46am

re: #496 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

The Douche and The Dick. The match made in heaven.

North Joisy rocker patriots. You ever listen to Johnny Ramone's wife, Linda Cummings? In an odd way she reminds me of Pam Geller.

501 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:52:10am

re: #487 BongCrodny

Mustaine is kind of a right wing guy, or at least he's become that. According to an Amazon review, two of his favorite shows are Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

I always thought heavy metal -- like punk -- was about non-conformity. I can't think of a bigger outlet screaming "CONFORM!" than Fox.

Not me. Most of the idiots in my high school were metalheads. Some of the most conformist, conservative dumbasses-in-training I've ever met in my life.

502 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:52:36am

re: #490 Tommy

Booted from Metallica, but not before being involved in the landmark heavy metal album Ride the Lightning.

503 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:52:47am

re: #497 Lidane

Punk maybe, since it tends to be a lot more anti-authority and socially liberal.

Metal has always had a high-testosterone wingnutty vibe to it, especially among older metal fans. I remember going to a hair metal message board a long time ago for laughs and finding a LOT of wingnuts there. Ever wonder who Ted Nugent's talk show appeals to? Yeah.

Yeah punk and metal are different cultures.

504 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:53:29am

re: #501 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hey, I resemble that remark (big into heavy metal, industrial, hard rock, etc.)

505 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:54:23am

re: #502 lawhawk

Booted from Metallica, but not before being involved in the landmark heavy metal album Ride the Lightning.

I'm fairly sure he was gone before Ride the Lightning (AKA Metallica's Good Album). He was on Kill 'Em All.

506 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:54:30am

It's all about the individual and music when it comes down to it. Though I can't imagine too many right wingers being big on the new folk I like. I mean the singers look and sound like hippies. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

507 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:56:03am

re: #502 lawhawk

Saw Megadeath last year with Slayer and a couple of others. Front row with my 14 y.o. daughter. Effin awesome!

508 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:57:42am

Here I had the urge to listen to "The Lonely Bull" or the "Italian Symphony" this morning.

509 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:57:42am

re: #505 Bishop Cornwallis Gobbletot

He was on Ride The Lightning, the last album he did with them was Master Of Puppets which came out after ride the lightning.

510 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:57:48am

Santorum's latest attack add.


I give it a two on a scale of 1-5

511 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:58:08am

Former Indianapolis mayor Stephen Goldsmith cleared in domestic assault case
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

Former Indianapolis Mayor Stephen Goldsmith has been cleared of any legal wrongs stemming from a July 30 domestic incident between him and his wife, Margaret Goldsmith, according to media reports.

A ruling of “actual innocence” by a Washington, D.C., Superior Court judge is a more complete exoneration than a finding of “not guilty.” It requires the defendant to appear before a judge and demonstrate proof that he or she committed no crime — a higher standard than showing there is a lack of evidence of any crime. Indiana courts do not have such rulings.

I have never heard of an "actual innocence" ruling.

512 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:00:36am

Wait, what?

513 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:01:18am

re: #512 Lidane

Wait, what?

Danger! Danger! Danger!

514 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:01:36am

re: #509 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

He was on Ride The Lightning, the last album he did with them was Master Of Puppets which came out after ride the lightning.

Ah, ok. Quick check of the Hitchhiker's Guide tells me that he has songwriting credits but did not actually record on any of the albums, which was contrary to my belief.

515 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:02:05am

re: #512 Lidane

Wait, what?

They're just brainwashing their audience. Most of them probably never heard of MM until now. Fox News and Daily Caller... well you've heard I'm sure...

516 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:02:31am

re: #509 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Teehee, don't tell Kirk!

517 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:02:32am

re: #512 Lidane

Wait, what?

Isn't this the same quack that claimed watching Chas Bono on Dancing with the Stars would turn kids gay? I mean this isn't even offensive. This is just stupid.

518 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:03:02am

It's almost like David and Goliath. Fox News being afraid of Media Matters is hilarious.

519 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:03:07am

re: #512 Lidane

Wait, what?

Duck says what???

520 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:03:44am

Time to run, enjoy your day people!

521 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:03:57am

After listening to Countdown to Extinction I am really surprised Mustaine would be a wingnut. That album was pretty anti-war, pro-environment in a lot of ways. or so it seems.

522 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:04:04am

re: #505 Bishop Cornwallis Gobbletot

He's credited on a couple of the songs on Ride the Lightning.

re: #509 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance
Mustaine was not involved in Master of Puppets, though he claims to have been involved in the writing of Leper Messiah (but the official credits do not list him at all).

523 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:04:15am

re: #520 RogueOne

Time to run, enjoy your day people!

Remember to smell the milk before you drink.

//

524 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:04:32am

re: #415 Gus

Shoot first. Ask questions later. Humans are expendable.

Just make sure they eat the right foods first though.

And always bring along a towel!
- Towelie (wanna burn one?)

525 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:04:40am

re: #518 Gus

It's almost like David and Goliath. Fox News being afraid of Media Matters is hilarious.

It's because Roger Ailles has a small dick. See, we all can play amateur psychiatrist.

526 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:04:50am

re: #510 Bubblehead II

Santorum's latest attack add.

[Video]I give it a two on a scale of 1-5

WTF? Is it intentionally ironic?

527 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:05:17am

re: #526 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

WTF? Is it intentionally ironic?

Needs moar dakka

528 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:07:26am

re: #522 lawhawk

he was listed as a guitarist on Master Of Puppets. According to the one documentary I saw on Metallica he was with them until after Puppets was released and then they booted him.

529 jaunte  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:07:45am

re: #512 Lidane

Ablow furthering the idea that adopted children grow up to be dangerous.
What a POS.

530 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:07:46am

re: #510 Bubblehead II

Santorum's latest attack add.

[Video]I give it a two on a scale of 1-5

Goofy.

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:07:51am

re: #510 Bubblehead II

Santorum's latest attack add.

[Video]I give it a two on a scale of 1-5

Basically, it's some hot santorum on Santorum action.

532 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:10:18am

re: #528 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

he was listed as a guitarist on Master Of Puppets. According to the one documentary I saw on Metallica he was with them until after Puppets was released and then they booted him.

ok looking at wikipedia it says he was out before ride the lightning and master of puppets but i distinctly remember him being in the liner for master of puppets on the cassette i had.

533 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:11:16am

Pat Robertson joins the Bryan Fischer derpitude:

534 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:11:44am

re: #531 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Basically, it's some hot santorum on Santorum action.

Apparently putting 2 and 2 together is a foreign concept to the Santorum campaign.

535 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:12:35am

re: #534 Varek Raith

Apparently putting 2 and 2 together is a foreign concept to the Santorum campaign.

The last bit with Romney's shirt almost cannot be coincidental.

536 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:12:39am

re: #526 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I found it more silly than anything. My interpretation of it was no matter how much mud Mitt (or his Super Pac) flings at it him, none of it will hit (or stick to) him and in the end will backfiring on Mitt. Pretty lame imho.

Edited for stupid spelling mistake.

537 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:13:08am

Battlestargate Galacticatrek
Image: original.jpg

538 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:13:15am

re: #530 Gus

Goofy.

Silly and lame.

539 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:13:45am

re: #536 Bubblehead II

I found it more silly than anything. My interpretation of it was know matter how much mud Mitt (or his Super Pac) flings at it him, none of it will hit (or stick to) him and in the end will backfiring on Mitt. Pretty lame imho.

Well, that's obvious. But we're talking about Santorum here. You do know the infamous site, right?

540 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:13:47am

The ad was also funny because it accused Romney of attacking his fellow Republicans. Romney's mostly been focused on Obama since he's been acting like he's had it in the bag.

541 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:14:10am

Let us look now to J. Edgar Hoover. Please turn to page 326...

As Roger states in the film, "if you read the FBI files you will see that even Mr. J. Edgar Hoover himself had to say that it was not the guns that were the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States of America; it was not the guns, it was the Free Children's Breakfast Program that was the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States of America. Grits. Now why was it the Free Children's Breakfast Program?

542 jaunte  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:14:45am

Tweet Ablow and let him know what you think.
[Link: twitter.com...]

543 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:15:11am

re: #541 Gus

Let us look now to J. Edgar Hoover. Please turn to page 326...

Hahaha.

544 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:15:28am

"Adding comments has been disabled for this video."

But of course.

545 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:15:34am

re: #542 jaunte

Tweet Ablow and let him know what you think.
[Link: twitter.com...]

What about?

546 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:16:49am

Ah. Ablow was the one that said that about Media Matters.

547 jaunte  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:16:55am

re: #545 Gus

See Lidane's 512. "Adopted children grow up to be dangerous." A stupid and pernicious statement coming from a man presented on television as a doctor.

548 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:17:36am

re: #539 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Well, that's obvious. But we're talking about Santorum here. You do know the infamous site, right?

I presume you are referring to the one that equates his name with Gay Sex?

549 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:18:04am

re: #548 Bubblehead II

I presume you are referring to the one that equates his name with Gay Sex?

Sure. Have you seen the picture there?

550 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:21:47am

re: #549 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

No, but then again, maybe I am going to the wrong site.

blog (dot) spreadingsantorum (dot) com/

551 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:22:22am

re: #550 Bubblehead II

No, but then again, maybe I am going to the wrong site.

blog (dot) spreadingsantorum (dot) com/

Just [Link: spreadingsantorum.com...]

552 jaunte  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:22:30am

Texas State Board of Education Candidate Decries ‘Evolution Agenda’

Republican (surprise!) Marty Rowley of Amarillo:

“(W)hile I don’t dispute that evolution should be taught to Texas schoolchildren, which our science curriculum apparently adequately does, I believe it is a theory, and nothing more than a theory. And if we want to turn out thinking, analytical Texas graduates, they should be allowed to view evolution in the light of the strengths and weaknesses it possesses. I say, let’s teach scientific theories, including evolution, let them stand on their own merit, and let our students make their own well-reasoned decisions as to what they believe to be the truth.”

553 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:23:32am

re: #552 jaunte

Texas State Board of Education Candidate Decries ‘Evolution Agenda’

Republican (surprise!) Marty Rowley of Amarillo:

It's turtles all the way down.

554 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:24:07am

re: #552 jaunte

Texas State Board of Education Candidate Decries ‘Evolution Agenda’

Republican (surprise!) Marty Rowley of Amarillo:

Something tells me Marty doesn't know that a "theory" in science is different than a theory in the other usage of the word. Really, Scopes happened over 85 years ago and we're still fighting this battle. It's pathetic.

555 jaunte  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:25:42am

re: #553 Boy, You got a panty on your head.

The conservative strategy of focusing on local boards is really paying off./

556 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:26:48am

re: #554 HappyWarrior

Something tells me Marty doesn't know that a "theory" in science is different than a theory in the other usage of the word. Really, Scopes happened over 85 years ago and we're still fighting this battle. It's pathetic.

Today is Galileo's birthday.

557 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:27:23am

I mean damn man I look at people who are considered conservatives in Europe like the Tories in the UK and I really think that they'd be seen as moderates or even liberals here. I still like the PM Cameron quote- not pro gay marriage in spite of my conservatism but because of it. American conservatives are more reactionary than conservative.

558 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:27:34am

The battle for science has really been going on for close to 500 years.

559 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:27:59am

re: #558 Gus

The battle for science has really been going on for close to 500 years.

True that. Corpenicus had a big role in that too.

560 jaunte  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:28:14am

re: #558 Gus

"E pur si muove"

561 Coracle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:30:11am

re: #557 HappyWarrior

I mean damn man I look at people who are considered conservatives in Europe like the Tories in the UK and I really think that they'd be seen as moderates or even liberals here. I still like the PM Cameron quote- not pro gay marriage in spite of my conservatism but because of it. American conservatives are more reactionary than conservative.

I was recently in a "discussion" with a British leftie who argued that the entire American political spectrum was a battle between the Far Right and the Far Far Right. I disagreed with him, but he made (unintentionally) a point about perspective and relative leanings that shouldn't be ignored.

562 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:31:15am

re: #551 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I was going to originally, but didn't know if Charles wanted us linking directly to it. I like the first pick that comes up today. Nice riff on the "Worlds Most Interesting Man" commercials by Dos Equis.

The photo shop of Hilliary's face was pretty good too.

563 Gus  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:32:58am
564 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:34:23am

re: #562 Bubblehead II

I was going to originally, but didn't know if Charles wanted us linking directly to it. I like the first pick that comes up today. Nice riff on the "Worlds Most Interesting Man" commercials by Dos Equis.

The photo shop of Hilliary's face was pretty good too.

It's actually Gov. Christine Gregoire ;)

565 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:34:57am

re: #561 Coracle

I was recently in a "discussion" with a British leftie who argued that the entire American political spectrum was a battle between the Far Right and the Far Far Right. I disagreed with him, but he made (unintentionally) a point about perspective and relative leanings that shouldn't be ignored.

Well, it really is Right vs. Even More Right, although I'm not sure I'd say Far Right. Moderate Right vs. Far Far Right, maybe.

566 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:36:28am

I think it's center right versus far right. The idea that Obama is a socialist, radical, or communist is laughable.

567 Coracle  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:38:07am

re: #565 Simply Sarah

Well, it really is Right vs. Even More Right, although I'm not sure I'd say Far Right. Moderate Right vs. Far Far Right, maybe.

Exactly - where it is depends on where you stand yourself.
There's an old quote -

"Everyone to the left of me is lazy. Everyone to the right of me is crazy."

568 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:40:12am

re: #567 Coracle

Exactly - where it is depends on where you stand yourself.
There's an old quote -

"Everyone to the left of me is lazy. Everyone to the right of me is crazy."

Well, not really. Looking at history, tradition, and at basically everywhere else in the world, American Democrats (At least as a whole and on a national level) do indeed mostly fall in line with ideas considered to be on the right.

569 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:41:31am

re: #564 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I stand corrected. (Still looks a lot like Hillary though)

570 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:44:58am

Texas Primary 2012 May Slip Into May Or Later Because Of Redistricting Fight

The Texas primaries, which were once key to emerging from next month's Super Tuesday elections with the momentum and backing to win the Republican presidential race, may be pushed into May – and perhaps out of relevance for the race – because of a dispute over the state's proposed redistricting maps.

Although the chances of an April primary are not officially extinguished, even the judges acknowledged those prospects are fading because of logistics. Elections workers from some of Texas' largest counties are pushing May 22 as the next earliest date if maps can be settled quickly.

571 Lidane  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:46:25am

re: #566 HappyWarrior

The idea that Obama is a socialist, radical, or communist is laughable.

Seriously. It's such a joke. On a global scale, he'd be a centrist or center-right. The idea that he's a fire-breathing radical socialist or whatever the latest wingnut meme is should make people laugh and roll their eyes. He's nothing of the sort.

572 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:48:46am

re: #566 HappyWarrior

I think it's center right versus far right. The idea that Obama is a socialist, radical, or communist is laughable.

He's barely left-wing.

573 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:49:12am

re: #571 Lidane

Seriously. It's such a joke. On a global scale, he'd be a centrist or center-right. The idea that he's a fire-breathing radical socialist or whatever the latest wingnut meme is should make people laugh and roll their eyes. He's nothing of the sort.

The coolest thing I saw in 2008 was an actual socialist appearing on Colbert and saying he's not one, "I should know, I am one." I mean I really wouldn't even call him a liberal. Maybe he is personally but his policies are centrist and to hear these idiots who don't know anything about government act like he's this radical Marxist, well that just amuses me more than angers me.

574 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:49:44am

re: #572 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

He's barely left-wing.

Yep I am an American liberal. Obama's an American centrist.

575 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:50:33am

re: #574 HappyWarrior

Yep I am an American liberal. Obama's an American centrist.

No, he's a liberal alright. Liberal doesn't equal left-wing. There are right-wing liberals.

576 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:51:15am

re: #575 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

No, he's a liberal alright. Liberal doesn't equal left-wing. There are right-wing liberals.

If anything, liberalism is by definition economically right-wing.

577 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:51:19am

re: #575 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

No, he's a liberal alright. Liberal doesn't equal left-wing. There are right-wing liberals.

I keep on forgetting liberal's not always left wing.

578 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:53:30am

re: #576 Simply Sarah

If anything, liberalism is by definition economically right-wing.

I don't know of such a general definition.
Liberalism is associated with various economic vectors. In the US it's mostly left-wing, in ex-USSR it's mostly right-wing. The common ground is respect for human rights, freedoms, tolerance, things like that.

579 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:55:28am

re: #573 HappyWarrior

The coolest thing I saw in 2008 was an actual socialist appearing on Colbert and saying he's not one, "I should know, I am one." I mean I really wouldn't even call him a liberal. Maybe he is personally but his policies are centrist and to hear these idiots who don't know anything about government act like he's this radical Marxist, well that just amuses me more than angers me.

I've said that here more than once. Of course this leads many of the real lefties to be tempted to nader Mittens into the White House on the pretense there's no difference. To which I say Sotomayor and Kagen...

580 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:56:10am

re: #578 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

I don't know of such a general definition.
Liberalism is associated with various economic vectors. In the US it's mostly left-wing, in ex-USSR it's mostly right-wing. The common ground is respect for human rights, freedoms, tolerance, things like that.

Well, it's on "the left" in the U.S. mostly because we don't really have any sort of organized socialist party or group to comprise a real economic left-wing.

581 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:56:28am

re: #579 William Barnett-Lewis

I've said that here more than once. Of course this leads many of the real lefties to be tempted to nader Mittens into the White House on the pretense there's no difference. To which I say Sotomayor and Kagen...

Yeah the difference that Sotomayor and Kagan between Thomas/Scalia/Alito clones is that big to make me vote for Obama.

582 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:57:40am

Chavez-lovers, for example, are not liberals (even those who fancy themselves as ones). Left-wingers, but not liberals.

583 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:59:50am

re: #582 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Chavez-lovers, for example, are not liberals (even those who fancy themselves as ones). Left-wingers, but not liberals.

Oh I know. I just see liberalism as being part of the left. The moderate left but the left regardless. I think this is just because of my American political background that I see it this way. I as I've said before have no idea what party I'd be in if I were British or French or German. Take Germany, Obama and Merkel get along great and in fact I heard Obama wanted Merkel to win re-election.

584 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 15, 2012 10:43:52am

re: #559 HappyWarrior

True that. Corpenicus had a big role in that too.

Umm.....

Oh, hell -- never mind. I like your spelling better.


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