Denialgate: Heartland Institute Mistakenly Emailed Internal Documents

Oops

EnvironmentFebruary 2012 • Views: 27,280

There’s more today on those devastating internal documents from the Heartland Institute; Heartland has confirmed that they were mistakenly emailed by a staff member.

The Heartland Institute has confirmed in a prepared statement that it mistakenly emailed its board materials to an anonymous third party - confirming the source of the documents released here on the DeSmogBlog yesterday.

Heartland then goes on allege that one of the documents (the Climate Strategy) is a fake.

The DeSmogBlog has reviewed that Strategy document and compared its content to other material we have in hand. It addresses five elements:

The Increased Climate Project Fundraising material is reproduced in and confirmed by Heartland’s own budget.

The “Global Warming Curriculum for K-12 Classrooms” is also a Heartland budget item and has been confirmed independently by the author, Dr. David Wojick.

The Funding for Parallel Organizations; Funding for Selected Individuals Outside Heartland are both reproduced and confirmed in the Heartland budget. And Anthony Watts has confirmed independently the payments in Expanded Climate Communications.

The Heartland Institute is obviously very embarrassed by this leak, and now they’re threatening prosecution, claiming the documents are fake, and demanding that the Internet erase any record of the whole thing, issue retractions, and forget about it.

Good luck with that.

We respectfully ask all activists, bloggers, and other journalists to immediately remove all of these documents and any quotations taken from them, especially the fake “climate strategy” memo and any quotations from the same, from their blogs, Web sites, and publications, and to publish retractions.

The individuals who have commented so far on these documents did not wait for Heartland to confirm or deny the authenticity of the documents. We believe their actions constitute civil and possibly criminal offenses for which we plan to pursue charges and collect payment for damages, including damages to our reputation. We ask them in particular to immediately remove these documents and all statements about them from the blogs, Web sites, and publications, and to publish retractions.

How did this happen? The stolen documents were obtained by an unknown person who fraudulently assumed the identity of a Heartland board member and persuaded a staff member here to “re-send” board materials to a new email address. Identity theft and computer fraud are criminal offenses subject to imprisonment. We intend to find this person and see him or her put in prison for these crimes.

DeSmogBlog: Internal Heartland Institute Documents Unmask the Climate Denial Machine

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147 comments

Four More Tears Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:15:28pm

Oops.

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:16:31pm

We respectfully ask all activists, bloggers, and other journalists to immediately remove all of these documents and any quotations taken from them, especially the fake “climate strategy” memo and any quotations from the same, from their blogs, Web sites, and publications, and to publish retractions.

Yeah, that'll work.

Obdicut Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:17:28pm

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

Varek Raith Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:18:16pm

Karma's a bitch.

jaunte Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:18:54pm

They had all night to think of a response, and "it's fake" plus "it was stolen" plus "you can't show anyone" is as good as they can do? Sounds like an 8 year old is in charge.

erik_t Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:19:10pm

If it's terribly damning, don't have it sitting right next to your email server.

Jesus, people.

Four More Tears Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:19:29pm

Charles? I'll assume you're typing your retraction as we speak...?

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:19:37pm

CONFIRMED: Anti-Science Blogger Admits Heartland Institute’s ‘Special Project’ To Distort Temperature Data

Now, anti-science blogger Anthony Watts has confirmed that Heartland is funding his project to display weather station data, detailed in the leaked fundraising plan. In a comment at Andrew Montford’s Bishop Hill blog, Watts claims there are no “nefarious motives” in his project:

Heartland simply helped me find a donor for funding a special project having to do with presenting some new NOAA surface data in a public friendly graphical form, something NOAA themselves is not doing, but should be. . . . DeSmog, as part of their public relations for hire methodology to demonize skeptics, will of course try to find nefarious motives for this project. But there simply are none here. It’s something that needs doing because NOAA hasn’t made this new data available in a user friendly visual format.

The secret Heartland document explains that Watts isn’t just trying to present “new NOAA surface data in a public friendly graphical form.” Watts, the document explains, has been “exposing flaws in the current network of temperature stations (work that the Heartland Institute supported and promoted),” based on his hypothesis that “many of the temperature stations relied on by weathermen are compromised by heat radiating from nearby buildings, machines, or paved surfaces.” These stations generate “spurious records” which are “used by environmental extremists as evidence that human emissions are causing either global warming or the more ambiguous ‘climate change.’”

Like the rest of Heartland’s climate denial work, this project is anonymously funded.

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:21:20pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

Agreed.

Varek Raith Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:21:23pm

re: #7 They're pants, essentially...

Charles? I'll assume you're typing your retraction as we speak...?

In a Captain Sheridan kind of way.

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:22:16pm

re: #10 Varek Raith

In a Captain Sheridan kind of way.

"I'm sorry your crew was dumb enough to open fire on us."

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:22:56pm

Time to shut down "Heartland Institute" and incorporate the "Purple Mountains Majesty Institute".

Bulworth Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:23:04pm

How did this happen? The stolen documents were obtained by an unknown person who fraudulently assumed the identity of a Heartland board member and persuaded a staff member here to “re-send” board materials to a new email address. Identity theft and computer fraud are criminal offenses subject to imprisonment. We intend to find this person and see him or her put in prison for these crimes.

But the documents are fakes, so it's all good. /

BongCrodny Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:23:44pm

Yes, companies always email fake documents to their board members.

Varek Raith Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:23:53pm

Their weak response makes me believe none of it was faked.
;)

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:24:21pm

re: #13 Bulworth

But the documents are fakes, so it's all good. /

"We routinely circulate fake documents internally to keep our people on their toes."

jaunte Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:24:55pm

re: #16 Kragar

"Attack me again, Kato!"

Varek Raith Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:24:58pm

But the CRU hackers were total heroes.

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:25:44pm

re: #15 Varek Raith

There weak response makes me believe none of it was faked.
;)

Their.

Grammar Sith are not amused.

Obdicut Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:26:17pm

It'd be cool for people to actually start paying attention to Heartland and asking who funds them. I really don't know why people are so comfortable having anonymous billionaires and shadowy trusts having such an enormous influence on politics and culture.

Four More Tears Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:26:19pm

re: #16 Kragar

"We routinely circulate fake documents internally to keep our people on their toes."

A cunning plan...

Varek Raith Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:26:38pm

re: #19 Kragar

Their.

Grammar Sith are not amused.

You faked that.
It's not in my comment at all.
:P

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:26:57pm

Information wants to be free. Fly, little information , fly.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:27:10pm

fake but accurate?

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:27:28pm

re: #22 Varek Raith

You faked that.
It's not in my comment at all.
:P

The Force has a strong effect on the weak willed.

Obdicut Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:27:58pm

re: #18 Varek Raith

But the CRU hackers were total heroes.

Yeah, I'm fine with the guy who did this getting prosecuted, as long as we prosecute the CRU hackers. What this guy did was shady as hell, and I can only condone it because Heartland is such a evil fucking institution, but it was miles less intrusive than the CRU email stuff.

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:29:29pm

re: #21 They're pants, essentially...

A cunning plan...

Actually, half the board members of the Heartland Institute aren't really board members. They're decoys, meant to keep communication between the actual board members safe.

Even they don't know which ones are really board members. Its fiendishly clever.

Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:32:16pm

re: #26 Obdicut

Yeah, I'm fine with the guy who did this getting prosecuted, as long as we prosecute the CRU hackers. What this guy did was shady as hell, and I can only condone it because Heartland is such a evil fucking institution, but it was miles less intrusive than the CRU email stuff.

However, don't assume that Heartland is telling the truth about how this happened, apart from it being emailed. I don't see any reason to trust their "impersonation" story. They're almost certainly lying when they claim that one of the docs is a fake.

kirkspencer Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:33:52pm

re: #26 Obdicut

Yeah, I'm fine with the guy who did this getting prosecuted, as long as we prosecute the CRU hackers. What this guy did was shady as hell, and I can only condone it because Heartland is such a evil fucking institution, but it was miles less intrusive than the CRU email stuff.

Provided he did something that deserved prosecution.

Even given the story posted I'm not sure he crosses that threshold.

Obdicut Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:34:53pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

True, sorry, I should say that even if it went down as it did in their scenario.

The CRU documents were hacked into, taken out of context, pored over, and assembled into a media-blitz right before a sensitive climate conference. It was a political hit-job on the topic of global warming, an attack on scientists. In the end, it revealed no wrongdoing, just a small amount of impoliteness.

These are a scant number of emails, easily understandable, and it reveals clear wrongdoing, in spirit and in letter.

There is no comparison that doesn't make Heartland look like the ogre-palace that it is.

jaunte Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:35:13pm

How did this happen? The stolen documents were obtained by an unknown person who fraudulently assumed the identity of a Heartland board member and persuaded a staff member here to “re-send” board materials to a new email address.

Popularly known as the SODDI (some other dude done it) defense.

Eventual Carrion Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:36:26pm

re: #29 kirkspencer

Provided he did something that deserved prosecution.

Even given the story posted I'm not sure he crosses that threshold.

Yeah, he pulled a "Nigerian prince" scam on them and they sent him their bank info.

Obdicut Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:36:47pm

re: #31 jaunte

Popularly known as the SODDI (some other dude done it) defense.

Heh. Or, that staff member concocted the story, because they're a whistleblower.

A friend of mine, just about to graduate, is debating the ethics of that, of going inside the right-wing media machine as a mole. He thinks it's ethically defensible.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:36:50pm

If the guy behind the leak used gmail, yahoo or another popular account, the authenticity of the whole email with attachments can be confirmed through a DKIM signature verification. This should put the claims of fakery to rest.

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:39:53pm

OT, But I am debating on wether or not to go.

GOP Hopeful Ron Paul Schedules Twin Falls Stop

If I do go, I wonder if they will let me bring my video camera in?

[deleted] Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:44:30pm

Obdicut Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:45:15pm

re: #36 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Rape jokes are still in the land of the severely not-funny for me.

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:49:26pm

re: #36 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Not funny. And reported.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:51:09pm

re: #37 Obdicut

re: #38 Bubblehead II

removed it, still think it was amusing though.

dragonfire1981 Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:52:50pm

I'm actually surprised they didn't come out and try to claim the documents were "just a joke sent out by one of our staffers."

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:54:15pm

re: #39 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

It's still there. You might want to ask Charles to remove it for you.

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:55:23pm

re: #41 Bubblehead II

Never mind. It's now gone.

Thanks Charles.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:55:42pm

Thanks Charles...

celticdragon Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:55:53pm

Identity theft and computer fraud are criminal offenses subject to imprisonment. We intend to find this person and see him or her put in prison for these crimes.

Sweet, sweet wingnut tears.

Sionainn Wed, Feb 15, 2012 2:58:54pm

re: #5 jaunte

They had all night to think of a response, and "it's fake" plus "it was stolen" plus "you can't show anyone" is as good as they can do? Sounds like an 8 year old is in charge.

...and why would they have a bunch of "fake" stuff in their files, anyway?

jaunte Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:01:04pm

re: #45 Sionainn

Keeping large amounts of fake documentation mixed with your real stuff is great mental exercise.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:01:39pm

re: #45 Sionainn

...and why would they have a bunch of "fake" stuff in their files, anyway?

considering how much fake stuff they put out in order to deny climate change...

Sionainn Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:02:54pm

re: #47 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

considering how much fake stuff they put out in order to deny climate change...

Hmmm...I didn't think of it that way...

Varek Raith Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:03:56pm

re: #47 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

considering how much fake stuff they put out in order to deny climate change...

DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!!!

Tigger2005 Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:05:36pm

They don't know who their board members are? They don't know what their email addresses are? I'm sorry, who doesn't double check this stuff before sending out sensitive information?

William of Orange Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:09:02pm

I can't help but feeling like this happened before....

...hmmm

Shoe was on the other foot back then.

One big defference though. That other happening was the result of theft, this is pure incompetence.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:09:13pm

re: #50 Tigger2005

They don't know who their board members are? They don't know what their email addresses are? I'm sorry, who doesn't double check this stuff before sending out sensitive information?

they deny science, computers are science, they don't use them well or understand them for that matter. Remember the internet is a series of tubes...

goddamnedfrank Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:12:36pm

re: #50 Tigger2005

They don't know who their board members are? They don't know what their email addresses are? I'm sorry, who doesn't double check this stuff before sending out sensitive information?

Social engineering conservative orgs is probably pretty easy. Since the real board is likely filled with puffed up douchebags high on their own sense of authority, all one has to do is call up some easily cowed staffer then bully and yell at them until they do what you want. This is what authentic requests in conservative environments tend to look like, they don't empower their low level administrative employees or reward anything other than hop to it, top down obedience.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:13:45pm

re: #53 goddamnedfrank

look at the radio show that punk'd Scott walker by pretending to be one of the Koch brothers.

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:18:14pm

From the "It's about damned time" department:

Regulators hang up on robo-calls

The Federal Communications Commission clamped down on telemarketers Wednesday – even those you do business with, such as your bank – by placing severe limits on robo-calling and even texting.

FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski said Congress and his agency have long recognized the need for consumers to have control over the telemarketing calls that come into their homes, and the FCC has long had rules to put consumers in control.

"But despite these clear ground rules, too many telemarketers, aided by autodialers and prerecorded messages, have continued to call consumers who don’t want to hear from them," Genachowski said.

In a 3-0 vote, the commissioners adopted changes to its telemarketing rules that:

-- Require telemarketers to obtain prior written consent before placing robo-calls to consumers,
-- Eliminate the exemption for companies that have an "established business relationship" with consumers,
-- Require telemarketers to provide an automated, interactive opt-out mechanism during each robocall so consumers can immediately tell the telemarketer to stop calling and
-- Strictly limit the number of so-called dead-air calls in which consumers answer phones and hear nothing.

Unfortunately, these new regulations don't cover "informational" calls, charities, or political campaigns - although some rules are in place with the FEC regarding political candidates. Also, there wasn't anything in the article regarding on how enforcement of these tougher regulations will be carried out.

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:19:59pm

re: #50 Tigger2005

They don't know who their board members are? They don't know what their email addresses are? I'm sorry, who doesn't double check this stuff before sending out sensitive information?

This.

I work in a Corporate environment. If someone on the Executive Committee were to request I resend documentation about a project, I would resend it to the E-mail account set up by the I.T. Dept. Not one sent by/provided by the supposed Director.

OTH, someone not familiar with the internal E-Mail system could be easily duped into (re)sending the information without first verifying the E-Mail address. I:E, not verifying the E-Mail address of the individual requesting the information.

erik_t Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:24:03pm

re: #55 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

From the "It's about damned time" department:

Regulators hang up on robo-calls

DAMNED FEDERAL REGULATIONS INTERFERING WITH FREE BUSINESS!!!1

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:25:38pm

re: #50 Tigger2005

They don't know who their board members are? They don't know what their email addresses are? I'm sorry, who doesn't double check this stuff before sending out sensitive information?

Easy scenario for this:

Caller: "This is Mr. X from the board. I left the information you sent me in my office email and I need it ASAP. please send it to someone@somewhere.com"

Lackey: "Yes Sir Mr. X right away!"

Now of course one would wonder in this day and age why "Mr. X" couldn't get to his work email via a VPN or his phone but that's another story and not one the average office lackey would think.

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:27:22pm

Sorry to go OT so soon, but get ready for a fresh deluge of Fox News racist comment idiocy, Charles:

President Obama To Join Black History Museum Groundbreaking

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:29:27pm

Just a note: the scanned pdf that HI allege was faked was created on Feb. 13. It doesn't mean it's fake. But it's kinda strange they had to re-scan it for re-sending.
I do see that some facts in it have been confirmed, but I just hope it's not some sort of a provocation.

Four More Tears Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:32:33pm

re: #59 Lidane

Sorry to go OT so soon, but get ready for a fresh deluge of Fox News racist comment idiocy, Charles:

President Obama To Join Black History Museum Groundbreaking

Cry havoc, and let slip the derps of war!

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:34:00pm

re: #58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I think that its a safe bet that most corporate IT departments have set up their email servers to allow secure connections via smartphones, and everyone at a middle-management level or above has access. Also, just about every place that I've worked for has had an extremely strict policy regarding emailing of confidential documents - the first rule almost always being "Internal communications only".

Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:36:41pm

Did the Heartland folks have any indignant comments to make about the theft of the original "climategate" emails? Did they immediately delete their copies?

Four More Tears Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:38:37pm

re: #63 Red Sea Desjardini Tang

Did the Heartland folks have any indignant comments to make about the theft of the original "climategate" emails? Did they immediately delete their copies?

I think they had them framed.

Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:41:36pm

re: #55 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

From the "It's about damned time" department:

Regulators hang up on robo-calls

Unfortunately, these new regulations don't cover "informational" calls, charities, or political campaigns - although some rules are in place with the FEC regarding political candidates. Also, there wasn't anything in the article regarding on how enforcement of these tougher regulations will be carried out.

These were supposed to be covered under the "do not call" listings. Since that didn't work I don't know why this should work any better.

I get calls once a week offering a free Google listing. Just press "1". I have no idea how they make money off this, unless Google actually pays them.

I report them all to the FCC. They have a form at FCC.GOV.

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:43:39pm

re: #59 Lidane

Sorry to go OT so soon, but get ready for a fresh deluge of Fox News racist comment idiocy, Charles:

President Obama To Join Black History Museum Groundbreaking

Early prediction: Much screaming about how there's no "White History Museum."

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:46:31pm

Speaking of denial...

Is This Woman ‘Fracking’ Crazy?

The thesis of McElhinney’s manic, meandering speech is that fracking is the best thing to ever happen to us, but it could be squandered by ignorant and dumb people who have been tricked into opposing it by scheming, dishonest environmentalists who agree with Vladimir Putin and secretly hate the Bald Eagle.

During the course of her screed, and in between all the “fracking” puns, she suggested that drinking water in the US has always been flammable and that renewable energy sources only work while, for instance, the sun is out or the wind is blowing.

Youtube Video

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:48:03pm

re: #63 Red Sea Desjardini Tang

Did the Heartland folks have any indignant comments to make about the theft of the original "climategate" emails? Did they immediately delete their copies?

Nevermind the fact that the Heartland emails were obtained by someone apparently accidentally sending the wrong documents, while the so-called "climategate" emails were obtained by the illegal hacking of a University mailserver.

engineer cat Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:48:52pm

poke53265,59:poke53272,24

haven't peeked at any polka-ing code like that in a long time

isn't that trs-80 era BASIC?

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:49:43pm

re: #69 engineer cat

poke53265,59:poke53272,24

haven't peeked at any polka-ing code like that in a long time

isn't that trs-80 era BASIC?

Close. The answer to your question can be found on my avatar.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:50:12pm

re: #68 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

Nevermind the fact that the Heartland emails were obtained by someone apparently accidentally sending the wrong documents, while the so-called "climategate" emails were obtained by the illegal hacking of a University mailserver.

Eh, no, acc. to HI the documents were sent to a person pretending to be another person, i.e. stealing identity. If true (and I don't necessarily assume this to be the case, although DeSmogBlog did not refute this), that is not good, although I do think there is a greater good in this situation (well, unless the key document is indeed a fake).

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:52:25pm

We respectfully ask all activists, bloggers, and other journalists to immediately remove all of these documents and any quotations taken from them, especially the fake “climate strategy” memo and any quotations from the same, from their blogs, Web sites, and publications, and to publish retractions.

I respectfully ask the heartlanders to pound sand. They can get plenty of it from my drought-stricken cotton field.

William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:56:26pm

re: #70 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

Close. The answer to your question can be found on my avatar.

Did you go on to Guru Meditations after the peeking & poking C64 basic?

Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:56:55pm

re: #26 Obdicut

Yeah, I'm fine with the guy who did this getting prosecuted, as long as we prosecute the CRU hackers. What this guy did was shady as hell, and I can only condone it because Heartland is such a evil fucking institution, but it was miles less intrusive than the CRU email stuff.

"Shady" is in the eye of the beholder, but is it illegal? Sneaky is just as good a word and it is hardly identity theft.

It seems we have the word of the Foundation (or a secretary about to lose a job) that anyone impersonated anyone else, by a simple phone call. It could just as well be "Hi Dotty, this is mumble mumble. Please resend those files to .... asap". Thanks. Bye.

I presume they have a mole who knew what to ask for, but didn't have access to an internal PC to make a copy.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:59:37pm

re: #67 Kragar

She almost sounds like Jennifer Coolidge in this skit.

Talking Point Detective Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:00:09pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

They're almost certainly lying when they claim that one of the docs is a fake.

A fascinating angle to this is that I've seen discussion over at Curry's blog (and a few other places) about parallels to Rathergate (that "warmists" will claim that the one document is "fake, but accurate).

There are claims being made that the one document is entirely different in technical origin than all the other documents.

I would hope that you and some of your technically savvy readers would do a little investigation. If the one document is fake, it would be best if "skeptics" aren't the ones who provide proof.

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:01:59pm

re: #73 William Barnett-Lewis

A bit on an Amiga 2000 - mostly for toying around with video editing via the Toaster.

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:03:07pm

re: #68 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

C-64/128 Fan. I remember Peeking and Poking.

Sounds, I don't know, kinda kinky.

dragonfire1981 Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:05:00pm

I know must of us don't like the sites very much, but I think it's worthwhile for all of us to, at least once in awhile, check out the major stories on Foxnews.com and Foxnation.com. The spinning and propagandizing and twisting of facts over there is absolutely astounding.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:05:05pm

re: #76 Talking Point Detective

See #60. The document in question is a scan - which in itself is not suspicious. What may be suspicious is that the document was scanned on Feb. 13, presumably to send it to the impersonator.

Now, there are many innocent scenarios of why this would happen. E.g. the secretary lost the file and decided that it would be easier to rescan the paper that she had nearby.

The more puzzling would be HI's claim of fakery if the document is not a fake. Note that just "they lie" does not completely deal with this. If they do intend to pursue the impersonator, they will have to give up the mail to the police, it will be a part of the public record and if the supposed fake was indeed attached to that email, they will certainly have a lot of egg on their faces - and they know it.

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:07:29pm

Glenn Beck Launches ‘We Are All Catholics Now’ Movement

Beck kicked off the initiative on his radio show and has posted full details on his website. The movement is “focused on organizing people to contact their Senators and ask them to vote for a Conscience Protection measure.” The vote is planned for sometime this week.

A couple tips from Beck (who is a Mormon) for that phone call with your Senator [emphasis not mine]:

3. Tell them you want to be contacted back about how he voted (be sure to ask for accountability — they hate it, but it makes them call you back).
4. When you call, be sure to tell them “We are all Catholics now”. This key phrase will let them know you are part of a larger, organized movement working in support of religious freedom.

Oh, and also, make sure to call your own members of Congress. Beck says it won’t work otherwise

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:08:15pm

re: #78 Bubblehead II

BTW, I still have a Vic-20, a C-64 and a C-128. Never did get an Amiga.

All are in storage along with the Tape Drive and the 1541 disk drives.

dragonfire1981 Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:08:49pm

re: #81 Kragar

Glenn Beck Launches ‘We Are All Catholics Now’ Movement

I am NOT, nor will I ever BE a Catholic, period.

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:09:45pm

re: #81 Kragar

Glenn Beck Launches ‘We Are All Catholics Now’ Movement

"Religious freedom" apparently means the Catholic Church being free to dictate the lives of non-Catholics, while the federal government mandating a equal treatment is "secular socialism" or whatever bullshit term they've imagined today.

erik_t Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:10:20pm

re: #84 Targetpractice

"Religious freedom" apparently means the Catholic Church being free to dictate the lives of non-Catholics, while the federal government mandating a equal treatment is "secular socialism" or whatever bullshit term they've imagined today.

No, no, that's the point. We are all Catholics, therefore there are no non-Catholics!

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:10:27pm

re: #81 Kragar

Glenn Beck Launches ‘We Are All Catholics Now’ Movement

I'm sorry Glenn but this baptized Catholic says fuck you. This is the same guy who equated Catholic support of social justice programs with Nazism. Fuck him in the ear.

Decatur Deb Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:10:51pm

re: #83 dragonfire1981

I am NOT, nor will I ever BE a Catholic, period.

Been there, done that, got the scapular.

William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:12:08pm

re: #78 Bubblehead II

C-64/128 Fan. I remember Peeking and Poking.

Sounds, I don't know, kinda kinky.

The 128 was a blast. I loved running CP/M Wordstar and C64 games on the same machine.

kirkspencer Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:12:20pm

re: #58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Easy scenario for this:

Caller: "This is Mr. X from the board. I left the information you sent me in my office email and I need it ASAP. please send it to someone@somewhere.com"

Lackey: "Yes Sir Mr. X right away!"

Now of course one would wonder in this day and age why "Mr. X" couldn't get to his work email via a VPN or his phone but that's another story and not one the average office lackey would think.

Well... at this time there are still a number of people at the top who don't get the 'tubes. They manage by having a secretary or some such print it for them so they can read on paper, then having same secretary send the email response. My personal experience (very anecdotal, but still experience) is that the further the company is from being high-tech, the more likely at least one board member will be one of these people.

Talking Point Detective Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:12:34pm

re: #80 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

See #60. The document in question is a scan - which in itself is not suspicious. What may be suspicious is that the document was scanned on Feb. 13, presumably to send it to the impersonator.

Now, there are many innocent scenarios of why this would happen. E.g. the secretary lost the file and decided that it would be easier to rescan the paper that she had nearby.

The more puzzling would be HI's claim of fakery if the document is not a fake. Note that just "they lie" does not completely deal with this. If they do intend to pursue the impersonator, they will have to give up the mail to the police, it will be a part of the public record and if the supposed fake was indeed attached to that email, they will certainly have a lot of egg on their faces - and they know it.

Thanks.

RadicalModerate Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:15:14pm

re: #82 Bubblehead II

If Commodore founder Jack Tramiel hadn't pulled one of the biggest "corporate dick" moves of all time by jumping ship to Atari after the massive success of the C64 and initiated a war that drove both computer companies (as well as Apple) to near, or outright bankruptcy. Unfortunately, as innovative as the Amiga was (many features it had were almost half a decade ahead of its competitors), the fact that they didn't have a Steve Jobs-type at the helm to drive the marketing hype ultimately did them in.

Mentis Fugit Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:20:17pm

re: #21 They're pants, essentially...

A cunning plan...

Well their explanation was worthy of Baldrick.

No, I lie; it's got Lord Percy written all over it.

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:20:33pm

I'm sure there are plenty of women who are currently deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq that would disagree:

Bryan Fischer: Women ‘Are Not Prepared By DNA’ To Serve In Combat

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:21:18pm

re: #20 Obdicut

It'd be cool for people to actually start paying attention to Heartland and asking who funds them. I really don't know why people are so comfortable having anonymous billionaires and shadowy trusts having such an enormous influence on politics and culture.

It's the next step in the myth of fingerprints since we already have the lasers in the jungles.

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:23:33pm

Because being against birth control is totally a winning issue in 2012:

Fox Panel: Liberals Support Birth Control to 'Get Rid of the Poor'

Youtube Video

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:25:36pm

re: #67 Kragar

Speaking of denial...

Is This Woman ‘Fracking’ Crazy?

[Video]

Some of the drinking water in the US has been flammable already. My brother's well goes through a black shale layer and there is gas buildup in the well that has to be vented.

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:25:47pm

re: #95 Lidane

Because being against birth control is totally a winning issue in 2012:

Fox Panel: Liberals Support Birth Control to 'Get Rid of the Poor'

[Video]

What kind of horseshit is that?

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:26:20pm

re: #93 Lidane

I'm sure there are plenty of women who are currently deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq that would disagree:

Bryan Fischer: Women ‘Are Not Prepared By DNA’ To Serve In Combat

Women who are more tough than pussy Fischer who wants to be tortured so bad so he can be a martyr.

kirkspencer Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:26:34pm

re: #97 Kragar

What kind of horseshit is that?

I think it's the kind that won't help gardens grow.

100

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:27:10pm

re: #97 Kragar

What kind of horseshit is that?

The 2012 GOP position on birth control, apparently.

101

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:27:19pm

re: #97 Kragar

What kind of horseshit is that?

It's Fox News. This one does amuse me though. Since I'm confused. As we on the left are often accused of wanting to hand out money to the poor and now it's we want to "get rid of the poor." Everyone uses birth control, asshats.

102

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:28:35pm

This is all just so weird to me. You'd think instead of moving backwards and backwards that the right would be trying to adapt to the reality of 2012 but instead they act like they want to go back to 1912 with the rhetoric I'm hearing. May as well start prohibiting women from drinking and smoking too since they don't know what's best for their own bodies.

103

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:28:51pm

re: #95 Lidane

Because being against birth control is totally a winning issue in 2012:

Fox Panel: Liberals Support Birth Control to 'Get Rid of the Poor'

[Video]

Biggest laugh I got was the "Right want the poor to get rich," which is why they characterize any move to increase the poor's pay and opportunity as "wealth redistribution."

104

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:29:59pm

re: #103 Targetpractice

Biggest laugh I got was the "Right want the poor to get rich," which is why they characterize any move to increase the poor's pay and opportunity as "wealth redistribution."

Some of them even oppose student loans for college for christ sake but yeah they care about the poor.// Shit I even got a conservative friend to admit today that the right doesn't give a shit about the poor.

105

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:30:03pm

re: #96 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Some of the drinking water in the US has been flammable already. My brother's well goes through a black shale layer and there is gas buildup in the well that has to be vented.

Except she doesn't say some. She says people in America could always light their tap water on fire, flat out.

106

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:30:44pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

There are plenty of wingnuts who still insist that women aren't capable of voting because we're too emotional or too stupid, or we just vote for the hot guy or some shit. It's all over the RWNJ sites, and it rarely, if ever, gets called on by any female posters at those sites.

107

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:30:59pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

This is all just so weird to me. You'd think instead of moving backwards and backwards that the right would be trying to adapt to the reality of 2012 but instead they act like they want to go back to 1912 with the rhetoric I'm hearing. May as well start prohibiting women from drinking and smoking too since they don't know what's best for their own bodies.

That's what the "personhood" amendments are for, to end whatever control women have over their own bodies. Such amendments are written loosely for the purposes of outlawing contraception at the same time, but I expect it's gonna bite the Right hard in the ass when women start getting arrested for "child abuse" when they get caught having a few drinks or a smoke while only a few days pregnant.

108

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:32:33pm

re: #106 Lidane

There are plenty of wingnuts who still insist that women aren't capable of voting because we're too emotional or too stupid, or we just vote for the hot guy or some shit. It's all over the RWNJ sites, and it rarely, if ever, gets called on by any female posters at those sites.

Yeah, I've seen those when comments are posted from FR or FN. I don't get why any woman would be in line with present day conservatism with the rate it's going. Been reading what they're proposing here in Virginia. Mandatory Vaginal ultrasounds for women who want to get abortions. Yikes.

109

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:33:40pm

re: #107 Targetpractice

That's what the "personhood" amendments are for, to end whatever control women have over their own bodies. Such amendments are written loosely for the purposes of outlawing contraception at the same time, but I expect it's gonna bite the Right hard in the ass when women start getting arrested for "child abuse" when they get caught having a few drinks or a smoke while only a few days pregnant.

I really hope it does bite them in the ass. I am still ticked that people gave the Republicans all these majorities in the state legislatures and Congress. Because when you're mad at the government increasing. The solution is to vote for a bunch of numuts who want to impose their religious wills on the rest of us.

110

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:33:56pm

re: #108 HappyWarrior

I don't get why any woman would be in line with present day conservatism with the rate it's going.

Women, gays, minorities, the middle class... I honestly have no idea why anyone who's not a rich white guy even bothers voting Republican these days.

111

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:33:56pm

re: #104 HappyWarrior

Some of them even oppose student loans for college for christ sake but yeah they care about the poor.// Shit I even got a conservative friend to admit today that the right doesn't give a shit about the poor.

I've found that the Right's opinion of the poor depends on where they are in the social strata. If they're poor, they think that all the poor are being "held down" by liberals for votes. If they're middle class, they think the poor are whiners who don't know how "good" they got it. And if they're rich, they think the poor are "greedy" for thinking that they should receive help instead of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

112

Kragar Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:35:28pm

re: #110 Lidane

Women, gays, minorities, the middle class... I honestly have no idea why anyone who's not a rich white guy even bothers voting Republican these days.

Youtube Video

113

Ming Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:35:36pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

However, don't assume that Heartland is telling the truth about how this happened, apart from it being emailed. I don't see any reason to trust their "impersonation" story. They're almost certainly lying when they claim that one of the docs is a fake.

Good point. Right now, just about anything that Heartland puts out, threatening or conciliatory, should be taken with multiple grains of salt.

All we know for sure is that they are very, very angry about this.

114

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:36:03pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

I really hope it does bite them in the ass. I am still ticked that people gave the Republicans all these majorities in the state legislatures and Congress. Because when you're mad at the government increasing. The solution is to vote for a bunch of numuts who want to impose their religious wills on the rest of us.

I figure what we're gonna see come November is the worst case of buyer's remorse in recent history. Republicans at the state level are slowly swinging their states into Obama's corner by pissing the locals off.

115

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:36:10pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

I've found that the Right's opinion of the poor depends on where they are in the social strata. If they're poor, they think that all the poor are being "held down" by liberals for votes. If they're middle class, they think the poor are whiners who don't know how "good" they got it. And if they're rich, they think the poor are "greedy" for thinking that they should receive help instead of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

I mostly see the middle class/upper class mentality. Probably because I live in a wealthy area.

116

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:36:55pm

re: #114 Targetpractice

I figure what we're gonna see come November is the worst case of buyer's remorse in recent history. Republicans at the state level are slowly swinging their states into Obama's corner by pissing the locals off.

God, I hope you're right. I really hope there's a ton of buyers' remorse for the idiots who gave the Republicans the majority in the state senate here in Virginia and a bigger majority in the house of delegates.

117

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:38:59pm

re: #88 William Barnett-Lewis

I ran my first BBS (Haven BBS, Groton, CT) on a C-64 Using the All American BBS software and a 2400 BPS modem. Storage consisted of a D-9060 (about 10 mb) external IEEE hard drive with a Skyles Electric Works IEEE adapter. The times were fun. The Frontier was just opening up.

We had, I as remember.

Pete Kemmier (siq): Sosiari BBS

Bill & Wanda Winterholer: GemStone BBS

As well as slew of others.

Heady times, heady times.

Sorry Charles, but some of us predate you and LGF.

118

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:39:01pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

God, I hope you're right. I really hope there's a ton of buyers' remorse for the idiots who gave the Republicans the majority in the state senate here in Virginia and a bigger majority in the house of delegates.

Reading PilotOnline's comment sections on the personhood and ultrasound bills has been enlightening, namely seeing so many people calling Republicans in Richmond idiots for pushing such drek and threatening to vote against them come November. I do believe that the GOP has significantly overestimated their support amongst the faithful when it comes to women's rights.

119

HappyWarrior Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:41:47pm

re: #118 Targetpractice

Reading PilotOnline's comment sections on the personhood and ultrasound bills has been enlightening, namely seeing so many people calling Republicans in Richmond idiots for pushing such drek and threatening to vote against them come November. I do believe that the GOP has significantly overestimated their support amongst the faithful when it comes to women's rights.

That's good. People up here in NoVa were pretty much voting against them anyhow but downstate is always a different story. I just hope we can give Obama a win here and have Kaine beat Allen.

120

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:42:36pm

re: #118 Targetpractice

I do believe that the GOP has significantly overestimated their support amongst the faithful when it comes to women's rights.

Especially when it comes to birth control. Even people who might otherwise consider themselves "pro-life" are in favor of birth control, and trying to outlaw The Pill will backfire in a massive way for the GOP.

121

freetoken Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:47:16pm

Just because:

Antievolution legislation in Alabama

A bill introduced in the Alabama House of Representatives would allow local boards of education to award credit for religious instruction — and its sponsor says that it is intended as a vehicle for teaching creationism. House Bill 133, introduced on February 7, 2012, by Blaine Galliher (R-District 30), and referred to the House Committee on Education Policy, would, if enacted, "authorize local boards of education to include released time religious instruction as an elective course for high school students."

[...]

Discussing the bill with WAFF in Huntsville, Alabama (February 5, 2012), Galliher was "pretty clear on where he stands," telling the station, "They teach evolution in the textbooks, but they don't teach a creation theory," and "Creation has just as much right to be taught in the school system as evolution does and I think this is simply providing the vehicle to do that." In the 2011 legislative session, Galliher introduced the identical House Bill 568, which died in committee. [...]

There are already signs that the passage of HB 133 would encourage the teaching of creationism. The Gadsen Times (November 19, 2011) reported that a local religious group in Galliher's district was eager to participate in such a released time program, planning to offer four classes per day, five days per week. "The primary thrust of the school," explained a spokesperson, "is to inform young people there is [a] theory of creation besides evolution, and it's strictly based on Genesis 1 through 12."

From the WAFF link above:

[...]

Once approved by the school board, students would need written approval from their parents to take the course.

It would offer one credit as an elective at an off campus site, most likely a church, and be taught by an instructor. This would come at no cost to the school district. Galliher said it would be paid for by donations from church groups, business leaders and philanthropists.

The state board of education did not support the bill last year when it was introduced; citing the challenge it would create for working around critical instructional time. Galliher said it would not be a conflict.

"Creation has just as much right to be taught in the school system as evolution does and I think this is simply providing the vehicle to do that," he explained.

[...]

The station interviewd some people, and they put on air a couple of women who seem quite fine with it:

[Link: www.waff.com...]

This is America.

122

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:47:43pm

re: #120 Lidane

Especially when it comes to birth control. Even people who might otherwise consider themselves "pro-life" are in favor of birth control, and trying to outlaw The Pill will backfire in a massive way for the GOP.

That they even think that outlawing contraception in 2012 is a good idea is beyond me. I'd label it a desperation play, but it's not like it really appeals to anybody but their own base. Perhaps they're hoping to rile up the base enough to get them to the polls, but doing so while killing support from female Republicans seems like a Pyrrhic victory at best.

123

freetoken Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:48:57pm

Quite the downpour here... good for the loquats, which are way too early anyway.

124

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:49:50pm

"Creation has just as much right to be taught in the school system as evolution does"

Sure. Just put them in different classes. Evolution belongs in the science classroom, and Creationism can go in a religious myths course.

125

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:50:52pm

re: #124 Lidane

Sure. Just put them in different classes. Evolution belongs in the science classroom, and Creationism can go in a religious myths course.

"It's not creationism, it's intelligent design! That fellow in the lab coat told me so!"

126

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 4:53:17pm

re: #122 Targetpractice

Perhaps they're hoping to rile up the base enough to get them to the polls, but doing so while killing support from female Republicans seems like a Pyrrhic victory at best.

My guess is that they don't give a shit as long as Barack Obama loses. I guess they figure they can win then slap down the wingnuts and nutjobs or something.

The base hates Romney and is unenthusiastic about the remaining candidates. The party is likely headed to a brokered convention at the rate they're going. The best they can hope for is to light enough outrageous outrage under the GOP base to get them voting. But you're right -- it's a Pyrrhic victory.

127

dragonfire1981 Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:01:32pm

Here are the facebook comments off an Alabama radio station's facebook page. As in most cases, there's an equal amount of folks coming down on both sides:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

128

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:01:46pm

re: #126 Lidane

My guess is that they don't give a shit as long as Barack Obama loses. I guess they figure they can win then slap down the wingnuts and nutjobs or something.

The base hates Romney and is unenthusiastic about the remaining candidates. The party is likely headed to a brokered convention at the rate they're going. The best they can hope for is to light enough outrageous outrage under the GOP base to get them voting. But you're right -- it's a Pyrrhic victory.

A brokered convention right now would be the GOP's worst nightmare, as there's nobody who could win otherwise who hasn't already refused to run this year. And I'm totally lost as to how you create a "unity ticket" out of any of these four dipshits without basically nullifying any good they bring to the table.

129

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:04:26pm

re: #128 Targetpractice

A brokered convention right now would be the GOP's worst nightmare, as there's nobody who could win otherwise who hasn't already refused to run this year. And I'm totally lost as to how you create a "unity ticket" out of any of these four dipshits without basically nullifying any good they bring to the table.

They could nominate Sarah Palin at a brokered convention. She's available, after all:

[Link: thepage.time.com...]

Heh.

130

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:05:40pm

re: #129 Lidane

They could nominate Sarah Palin at a brokered convention. She's available, after all:

[Link: thepage.time.com...]

Heh.

A Palin nomination would be the party throwing up its hands and going "Fuck it, let's run her and see what happens."

Oh, and I'll be sending you the bill for a new monitor.//

131

Bubblehead II Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:06:32pm

re: #91 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

That and the fact they wouldn't admit that they needed more memory and storage capabilities also killed them (128 doubled the memory, but ignored the peripherals).

Somewhere around here I have a doc that shows this and explains how to get around it. Memory paging if I recall it right. As well as a hardware/software fix for it. Like I said, heady times. When both the hardware and software people actually talked to one another

132

freetoken Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:08:55pm

Does anyone know, in the Pages capability, if .m3u urls are automatically translated into audio players?

133

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:09:59pm

re: #132 freetoken

Does anyone know, in the Pages capability, if .m3u urls are automatically translated into audio players?

If they are, probably they would work like that in preview, tho I don't know, maybe preview in pages works slightly differently.

134

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:14:41pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

A Palin nomination would be the party throwing up its hands and going "Fuck it, let's run her and see what happens."

Rick Santorum is the current front-runner. They're already in the "fuck it, let's go with him" stage to avoid a Romney nomination.

Oh, and I'll be sending you the bill for a new monitor.//

Haha. Sorry about that.

135

freetoken Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:15:53pm

re: #133 Tofu Romney (Mitt's Evil Twin)

Thanks, tried that... and in previewing the Page just put up the URL as is.

Anyone have code for an Pages embed-able player that takes m3u files?

136

engineer cat Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:19:01pm

i'm holding out for a brokered convention that stays broke - me n some friends of mine have been predicting the splitup of the GOP for some years, and the "tea" party is the first tangible manifestation of that predicted process

if the nomination is still disputed by the time of the convention, there is no guarantee that it will settle on a nominee

137

Targetpractice Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:19:52pm

re: #134 Lidane

Rick Santorum is the current front-runner. They're already in the "fuck it, let's go with him" stage to avoid a Romney nomination.

Haha. Sorry about that.

A Santorum nomination at this point would be hilarious. Grand Inquisitor Rick would see a defeat of almost Mondale proportions, costing the GOP not just the presidency, but very likely all their Congressional aspirations as well. Obama could just stand up there on the debate stage and go "I want to build an America for the 21st century, while Rick wants to drag it back to the 18th."

138

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:20:04pm

re: #136 engineer cat

i'm holding out for a brokered convention that stays broke - me n some friends of mine have been predicting the splitup of the GOP for some years, and the "tea" party is the first tangible manifestation of that predicted process

if the nomination is still disputed by the time of the convention, there is no guarantee that it will settle on a nominee

IT'S A GOP S-K-K-K-ISM

139

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:21:32pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

A Santorum nomination at this point would be hilarious. Grand Inquisitor Rick would see a defeat of almost Mondale proportions, costing the GOP not just the presidency, but very likely all their Congressional aspirations as well. Obama could just stand up there on the debate stage and go "I want to build an America for the 21st century, while Rick wants to drag it back to the 18th."

Obama: "So...Rick! Really? You're who they're giving me? You're their guy? I'm sorry, man. I feel bad!"

140

aagcobb Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:22:15pm

re: #136 engineer cat

i'm holding out for a brokered convention that stays broke - me n some friends of mine have been predicting the splitup of the GOP for some years, and the "tea" party is the first tangible manifestation of that predicted process

if the nomination is still disputed by the time of the convention, there is no guarantee that it will settle on a nominee

I'm hoping that Frothy and Newt make a deal. They stay in the race, just attacking Romney and not each other. Frothy take the midwestern states, Newt takes the southern states, blocking Romney from getting a majority of the delegates. Then at the Convention, they united in a Newt/Frothy or Frothy/Newt ticket.

141

Lidane Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:25:09pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

A Santorum nomination at this point would be hilarious. Grand Inquisitor Rick would see a defeat of almost Mondale proportions, costing the GOP not just the presidency, but very likely all their Congressional aspirations as well.

If that's what it takes to get the religious nutjobs and wingnuts the hell out of the GOP, just like how Mondale's loss got the Dems to kick the hippies to the curb, then I'm all for it.

Of course, that doesn't mean I won't laugh my ass off all the way through the general election. Haha.

142

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Feb 15, 2012 5:34:31pm

re: #136 engineer cat

i'm holding out for a brokered convention that stays broke - me n some friends of mine have been predicting the splitup of the GOP for some years, and the "tea" party is the first tangible manifestation of that predicted process

if the nomination is still disputed by the time of the convention, there is no guarantee that it will settle on a nominee

One will be settled on. It's just that a large contingent will bolt and nominate their own candidate for a 3rd party run. The follow-on question would then be whether said broken away faction can remain viable for any period of time. (See Bull Moose Party.)

143

Kronocide Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:09:43pm

re: #95 Lidane

Because being against birth control is totally a winning issue in 2012:

Fox Panel: Liberals Support Birth Control to 'Get Rid of the Poor'

[Video]

But liberals need the poor to create a dependent class... ?

Duh duh derp derp!

144

Ming Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:40:21pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

A Palin nomination would be the party throwing up its hands and going "Fuck it, let's run her and see what happens."

Exactly what McCain did in 2008.

145

Mich-again Wed, Feb 15, 2012 8:59:03pm

I wanted to point out one thing about the Heartland Institute. a snip from their website..

Funding: Approximately 1,800 supporters support an annual budget of $6 million. Heartland does not accept government funding. Contributions are tax-deductible under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

OK I give? Why do the taxpayers subsidize this crap? Call it what you want, this is a lobbying group. I am sure according to their IRS Form 990, they are officially on a mission to educate the public. Yeah right.

I think the entire 501(c)(3) charitable organization tax exempt status ought to be blown to smithereens especially for purely political organizations like this one. If people really want to promote a cause then let them do it with after tax money.

146

Mich-again Wed, Feb 15, 2012 9:06:18pm

Geesh, the irony in that snip from the Heartland Institute website just hit me like a tire iron. read it again..

Heartland does not accept government funding. Contributions are tax-deductible under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

We do not accept government funding but we do accept donations from you that the government will help you pay for by giving you a tax break.

So anyone who sends them money has to be dumb enough to believe the tripe they print and vice versa.

147

Funky_Gibbon Wed, Feb 15, 2012 11:53:35pm

I particularly like this bit

The individuals who have commented so far on these documents did not wait for Heartland to confirm or deny the authenticity of the documents. We believe their actions constitute civil and possibly criminal offenses for which we plan to pursue charges and collect payment for damages, including damages to our reputation.

I don't remember them or anyone who believes their garbage waiting for confirmation of authenticity when it came to the hacked climate science emails. Of course they already knew they were real since they'd stolen them in the first place, only their analysis of their contents was fake.

Poetic justice.

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