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Santorum Backer Friess: In My Day, ‘Gals’ Used Aspirin for Birth Control - Between Their Knees

Rich caveman make joke
Wingnuts • Views: 28,872

This just happened on MSNBC, as Andrea Mitchell interviewed Rick Santorum’s main money man, Foster Friess:

Conservative humor rears its ugly head once again.

UPDATE at 2/16/12 10:39:35 am

TNR’s Jonathan Cohn has the full quote: Financier Behind Santorum SuperPAC: In My Day, Girls Used Aspirin for Birth Control. They Put It Between Their Knees.

“This contraception thing, my gosh, it’s [so] inexpensive. You know, back in my days, they’d use Bayer aspirin for contraception. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn’t that costly.”

Cohn adds:

You can’t hold politicians responsible for what their supporters say. But it’s creepy, and offensive, that anybody living in the 21st Century would say that, let alone somebody with huge financial resources and a desire to influence American politics.

I would hope Friess apologizes for the statement — and that, at some point, Santorum makes clear he doesn’t share such sentiments.

There won’t be any apology, of course, and Rick Santorum does share those sentiments.

UPDATE at 2/16/12 10:49:48 am

TMP has the video:

Jump to bottom

371 comments

1 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:37:48am

Not all women, just his girlfriend.

2 iossarian  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:37:50am

Even their jokes are from the dark ages.

3 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:37:55am

In his days, women would also bleed to death from illegal abortions and get date raped by the football team, then get called a whore for letting it happen.

Fuck off Foster.

4 SpikeDad  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:38:36am

Do they really believe this? That back in "My Day", no men and women had sex until they were married? That no men used condoms during sex? That no unwanted pregnancies resulted from sex and that no abortions were done because it was illegal?

Did anyone on MSNBC ask any questions in return?

5 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:39:02am

If'n that didn't work, then they'd sneak around in the shadows and alleys and find a bad doctor.

6 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:39:03am

He has four children. So apparently he had sex just four times.

7 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:39:27am

Republican front runner.

8 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:40:04am

Foster Friess, born-again evangelical Christian.

9 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:40:51am

IN GOOD OLE DAYS WOMYNS AND COLOREDS KNEW THEIR PLACE!!!1

10 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:41:39am

re: #6 jaunte

He has four children. So apparently he had sex just four times.

11 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:42:35am

This is part of the 'humor' genre based on the idea women don't really want to have sex, too.

I have done research indicating the opposite is often true.

12 zora  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:42:40am

Santorum 2012
Because Breeders are Better

how is this a winning formula? most women in america have used some form of birth control in their lives. this, birth control is for hedonistic whores, approach will not work.

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:43:20am

re: #11 Obdicut

This is part of the 'humor' genre based on the idea women don't really want to have sex, too.

I have done research indicating the opposite is often true.

Kinda the opposite of PETA, but just as sexist. Irony.

14 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:44:44am

This guy clearly has no imagination. "Aspirin between the knees" isn't even kinky.

15 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:44:54am

Oh what the hell? I suppose this clears up any question about why Friess is backing Santorum. Two of a kind, it seems.

16 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:45:05am

This is almost fascinating. Hope this is re-broadcast in the original black and white.

17 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:45:12am

re: #11 Obdicut

This is part of the 'humor' genre based on the idea women don't really want to have sex, too.

I have done research indicating the opposite is often true.

A republican and his wife are having sex when he stops and asks her "Are you ok?"

"Why do you ask?"

"You moved."

18 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:45:15am

re: #4 SpikeDad

Welcome, hatchling.

19 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:45:17am

re: #13 e_e

Kinda the opposite of PETA, but just as sexist. Irony.

It's not the opposite of PETA, it's the same side of the fence. PETA's message is "women love it rough and hard and totally want to get beat up!" which means they don't take time to put on protection before the pounding.

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:45:33am

re: #16 Gus

This is almost fascinating. Hope this is re-broadcast in the original black and white.

And in the original German.

21 shutdown  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:46:27am

I am waiting for a conservative imbecile to come out and say that in his day, a swift kick to the gonads was the best contraception. I would gladly provide that free of charge to these idiots.

22 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:46:36am

Ah the values vote at it again. Go fuck yourself Friess.

23 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:46:50am

re: #19 Look At My New Grandbaby!

It's not the opposite of PETA, it's the same side of the fence. PETA's message is "women love it rough and hard and totally want to get beat up!" which means they don't take time to put on protection before the pounding.

It's the opposite because PETA="women are sex puppets fully controlled by their desire for more sex", while in Obdi's example "women don't want sex".

24 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:47:00am

re: #20 e_e

And in the original German.

Zurück zu meiner Zeit Mädchen verwendet Aspirin für Geburtenkontrolle - sie stellte sie zwischen ihre Knie für den Vater Land!

25 shutdown  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:47:06am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

Ah the values vote at it again. Go fuck yourself Friess.

He can't. The aspirin will fall down.

26 simoom  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:47:17am

[Link: jezebel.com...]

From Issa's opening statements that "a man's conscience" should guide laws in America (and his failure to see the irony in using masculine nouns in a hearing that was ultimately about female parts) to his interrupting of DC's Eleanor Norton when she angrily requested clarification of rules, the entire hearing was was a tone deaf symphony that showcased just how delusional religious men who feel persecuted by the wide availability and accessibility actually are. Following a circus-y opening to the hearing that eventually led the Democratic women to reportedly walk out in protest, Bishop William Lori opened the testimony with a bit of truly dumb analogy making.

I'll put this as fairly as I possibly can: he compared insurance companies subsidizing the cost of birth control to the government forcing kosher delis to serve pork. Unbeknownst to him, failure to take pork every day cannot lead to pregnancy, bacon does not regulate periods, and a ham sandwich cannot decrease the number of abortions or promote women's health. The comparison of birth control to cooked pig parts was effective in one way, though— it showed that the Church utterly devalues women, and views their health care as a recreational afterthought. Want to have some honey glazed ham? Wanna keep from getting pregnant? Same thing!

27 shutdown  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:47:23am

re: #24 Gus

Zurück zu meiner Zeit Mädchen verwendet Aspirin für Geburtenkontrolle - sie stellte sie zwischen ihre Knie für den Vater Land!

Not bad!

28 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:47:42am

Mitchell: Do you have any concerns about some of his comments on social issues, contraception, about women in combat, and whether that would hurt his general election campaign would he be the nominee?

Friess: I get such a chuckle when these things come out. Here we have millions of our fellow Americans unemployed, we have jihadist camps being set up in Latin America, which Rick has been warning about, and people seem to be so preoccupied with sex. I think it says something about our culture. We maybe need a massive therapy session so we can concentrate on what the real issues are. And this contraceptive thing, my gosh, it’s such inexpensive. Back in my day, they used Bayer aspirin for contraceptives. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn’t that costly.

Mitchell: Excuse me, I’m just trying to catch my breath from that, Mr. Friess, frankly.

29 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:47:57am

re: #27 Turnabout is Fair Play

Not bad!

Google. ;)

30 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:48:37am

forgot link:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
(with video)

31 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:48:54am

re: #12 zora

Santorum 2012
Because Breeders are Better

how is this a winning formula? most women in america have used some form of birth control in their lives. this, birth control is for hedonistic whores, approach will not work.

The only good that could come of it would be proof that they didn't lose this time due to lack of conservatism. For that reason, I wouldn't mind if Santorum got the nomination.

32 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:49:14am

re: #23 e_e

It's the opposite because PETA="women are sex puppets fully controlled by their desire for more sex", while in Obdi's example "women don't want sex".

No, you totally do not get it. PETA's message is "women love to get beat up during sex." If PETA's message was "women want more sex" they wouldn't include the bruising, broken bones, as enhancing the "fun."

33 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:49:20am

Aspirin für die Sache des Vaters Land und Sieg!

34 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:49:32am

Jihadist camps in Latin America! Real issues!

35 erik_t  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:49:49am

re: #31 wrenchwench

The only good that could come of it would be proof that they didn't lose this time due to lack of conservatism. For that reason, I wouldn't mind if Santorum got the nomination.

I put nothing past the freepers at this point. Santorum voted for earmarks, after all!

/

36 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:03am

re: #34 jaunte

Jihadist camps in Latin America! Real issues!

And Brazil!

#fail

37 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:17am

re: #32 Look At My New Grandbaby!

No, you totally do not get it. PETA's message is "women love to get beat up during sex." If PETA's message was "women want more sex" they wouldn't include the bruising, broken bones, as enhancing the "fun."

No, their message is that "they crave sex so much that they will ignore even violence during sex".

38 shutdown  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:17am

re: #34 jaunte

Jihadist camps in Latin America! Real issues!

I tried to get my kid into one of those camps for the summer. Missed the application deadline.

39 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:17am

The video:

40 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:18am

re: #30 jaunte

forgot link:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
(with video)

I just tweeted it too:

41 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:30am

re: #30 jaunte

forgot link:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
(with video)

Oh, look! A sweater vest!

42 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:30am

Watch Friess in the video. He's totally pleased with his little joke.

43 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:50:42am

you want to see the real crazy? just read this

44 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:51:14am

re: #35 erik_t

I put nothing past the freepers at this point. Santorum voted for earmarks, after all!

/

Remove that sarc tag before it's too late.

45 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:51:20am

One of the things that always hit my irony meter in the "keep your knees closed" position is that it comes from people who insist on the importance of personal responsibility.

You never seem to hear "keep your dipstick dry," do you?

46 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:51:43am

re: #26 simoom

[Link: jezebel.com...]

And, of course, they ignore that many women take hormonal contraceptives for purposes other than contraception. You know, like the classmate that Ms. Fluke would have talked about.

47 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:52:27am

re: #4 SpikeDad

[snip]

Did anyone on MSNBC ask any questions in return?

Are you kidding? That would be like reporting or journalism or something. There will be none of that in my America!!! We follow the constitution (at least the parts we like) and that free press stuff was taken out at the last church breakfast meeting.

48 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:52:29am

re: #37 e_e

No, their message is that "they crave sex so much that they will ignore even violence during sex".

NO.

Violence does not enhance sex. A guy who beats up his partner during sex IS NOT a "better lover" because of it. PETA's message is "great sex includes crippling injuries."

49 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:52:37am

@KagroX
Warning: using baby aspirin will backfire.

50 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:53:04am

re: #48 Look At My New Grandbaby!

NO.

Violence does not enhance sex. A guy who beats up his partner during sex IS NOT a "better lover" because of it. PETA's message is "great sex includes crippling injuries."

That's the same thing Sergey is saying.

51 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:53:10am

I still say even if Santorum loses, they'll try to convince themselves that he wasn't conservative enough. Doesn't matter how hard right they go, nothing is ever conservative enough that is except for the idealized version of Reagan they have but it's just that an idealization.

52 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:53:12am

re: #39 Charles Johnson

The video:

[Video]

Love Andrea's silence there.

Not just any aspirin mind you but Bayer Aspirin©.

Guess it was partly in German after all.

53 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:53:40am

re: #39 Charles Johnson

The video:

[Video]

What a fucking pig.

54 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:53:43am

re: #49 jaunte

@KagroX
Warning: using baby aspirin will backfire.

Brings new meaning to chewable aspirin!

D'oh!

55 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:54:22am

Friess is 71 (born April 2, 1941). He would have been 20 when oral contraceptives were introduced in 1960. They had been very widely prescribed for menstrual disorders since 1957. As every old person with a decent memory knows (though possibly not Friess), they were very widely used all over the world within a couple of years. Women did use oral contraceptives when he was young and, btw, practically every pharmacy and gas station sold condoms. His aspirin joke would have been stupid even in his time (which is obviously long past).

56 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:54:25am

Stacey Burns @WentRogue
Foster Friess went to high school in the 50s. From 1940-1957, US teen birth rate increased 78% to a record high.

57 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:54:38am

re: #52 Gus

Love Andrea's silence there.

Not just any aspirin mind you but Bayer Aspirin©.

Guess it was partly in German after all.

Kinder, Küche, Kirche

58 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:54:48am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

There's lots of conservative sites bashing Santorum on his lack of economic conservatism as we speak.

59 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:54:55am

re: #48 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Violence does not enhance sex. A guy who beats up his partner during sex IS NOT a "better lover" because of it. PETA's message is "great sex includes crippling injuries."

Speaking of PETA, you'll love this.

60 shutdown  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:55:46am

re: #45 kirkspencer

One of the things that always hit my irony meter in the "keep your knees closed" position is that it comes from people who insist on the importance of personal responsibility.

You never seem to hear "keep your dipstick dry," do you?

The deep misogyny evidenced by the social and educational agenda of the far right should surprise no-one. This is one set of issues everybody on that side of the political spectrum can use as a rallying cry. Where they disagree on foreign policy or the economy, they can always agree that sex is dirty, women are harlots, and wombs are sacred vessels to be controlled by the patriarchy.

61 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:57:41am

Breitbart editor John Nolte is using a new tactic to prove how irrrrreeelevant I am: smear spamming. He's tweeted this ridiculous distortion at least a dozen times:

62 iossarian  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:57:46am

I don't really have a dog in the PETA fight (pun intended) but I do think that their message is that "women like it rough", rather than "women will put up with roughness in order to have sex".

These may seem the same, but the first is really the opinion that women specifically enjoy the violent nature of sex, whereas the second is that women do not enjoy the violent aspect of sex but put up with it because of its other, non-violent, aspects.

Incidentally, I think the second is even less defensible than the first.

63 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:57:48am

re: #60 Turnabout is Fair Play

It's really weird to see the high levels of misogyny and archaic attitudes from the non-religious, 'libertarian' types. I don't get it.

64 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 10:58:05am

re: #58 Obdicut

There's lots of conservative sites bashing Santorum on his lack of economic conservatism as we speak.

Huckabee had the same problem in 2008. Nothing's ever good enough for these loons.

65 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:00:09am

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Breitbart editor John Nolte is using a new tactic to prove how irrreeelevant I am: smear spamming. He's tweeted this ridiculous distortion at least a dozen times:

Pissing on corpses and posing with SS symbols, still perfectly ok according to Nolte.

66 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:00:23am

re: #37 e_e

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with both of you. The advert was badly done, but was not meant to advocate abusive sex in any way. Violent sex is not a subset of abusive sex; rather the opposite. Mutually consensual rough sex - which is what is implied in the ad - doesn't connote or denote abuse of women. The ad fails to make a strong enough differentiation, but it's obviously not the ad's intent to claim "women like to be beaten up during sex if it's the right guy."

So I agree the ad is ripe to be misinterpreted, but all these "the ad promotes sexual abuse" claims are exactly that: misinterpretations.

67 iossarian  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:00:48am

re: #63 Obdicut

It's really weird to see the high levels of misogyny and archaic attitudes from the non-religious, 'libertarian' types. I don't get it.

I think part of that is the anti-affirmative action rage that (to some extent) drives libertarianism.

"Why do these inferior people get all this favorable legislation?"

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:00:54am

re: #48 Look At My New Grandbaby!

NO.

Violence does not enhance sex. A guy who beats up his partner during sex IS NOT a "better lover" because of it. PETA's message is "great sex includes crippling injuries."

How do you figure this? I don't see such a message in that ad.
Their extended message, going strictly by the content of the ad is: "going vegan will make a male lover extra-virile and energetic; so energetic that he may even accidentally break a wall with her head while fucking her; but she is such a sex zombie that she will still crave more sex, despite wearing a neck brace after the accident". That's the entirety of the ad. It doesn't make violence a necessary component of "great sex". It's evil because it says that violence is not a big deal, if it happens, and that "the real woman" will still crave more and more. It doesn't say that she will crave more because of the violence.

69 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:01:18am

re: #66 Coracle

The ad prompts an idea that large injury during sex is something that the average woman would be comfortable with-- that the vegans are 'better lovers' specifically because they have sex in a way that leaves the women physically injured afterwards.

Stupid fucking ad.

70 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:01:48am

re: #68 e_e

I can't even understand where you guys are disagreeing.

71 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:02:00am

@tbogg
Call aspirin "Plan A" and Republicans will say you need a prescription to purchase it because it stops a baby from being born

72 iossarian  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:02:12am

re: #66 Coracle

Agree up to a point, though I think it would have spared them the headaches if they'd made it the guy who was going to the corner store on crutches.

73 Sionainn  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:02:24am

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Breitbart editor John Nolte is using a new tactic to prove how irrreeelevant I am: smear spamming. He's tweeted this ridiculous distortion at least a dozen times:

That's pathetic.

74 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:02:37am

re: #65 Kragar

Pissing on corpses and posing with SS symbols, still perfectly ok according to Nolte.

BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

75 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:02:50am

re: #69 Obdicut

The ad prompts an idea that large injury during sex is something that the average woman would be comfortable with-- that the vegans are 'better lovers' specifically because they have sex in a way that leaves the women physically injured afterwards.

Stupid fucking ad.

That's my reading as well.

76 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:03:36am

I just learned, throught the miracle of Twitter, that Friess was also a major donor to NM governor Susana Martinez.

77 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:04:16am

re: #63 Obdicut

It's really weird to see the high levels of misogyny and archaic attitudes from the non-religious, 'libertarian' types. I don't get it.

Not to me. Misogyny permeates our culture as a whole and stands alone from things like religion or political affiliation.

78 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:04:23am

re: #70 Obdicut

I can't even understand where you guys are disagreeing.

Alouette thinks the ad implies women preferring violent sex as a better alternative.
I think the ad implies women will tolerate violent sex.

79 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:04:33am

"Gals"

80 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:04:49am

I don't even know what birth control pills cost anymore. Anyone have the data?

81 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:05:03am

re: #69 Obdicut

The ad prompts an idea that large injury during sex is something that the average woman would be comfortable with-- that the vegans are 'better lovers' specifically because they have sex in a way that leaves the women physically injured afterwards.

Stupid fucking ad.

The ad's stupid emphasis on violent sex completely overshadowed their bogus claim that a vegan diet is better than viagra.

82 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:05:10am

re: #69 Obdicut

The ad prompts an idea that large injury during sex is something that the average woman would be comfortable with-- that the vegans are 'better lovers' specifically because they have sex in a way that leaves the women physically injured afterwards.

Stupid fucking ad.

That's incorrect. You'd get it if you've ever thrown your back out or bruised your head (or other body part) against a piece of furniture during sex. However, PETA overestimates that audience, and the understanding of those outside that audience, so in the end, it is indeed a stupid ad for their cause.

83 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:05:10am

re: #74 Gus

BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

84 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:05:45am

re: #77 Simply Sarah

Not to me. Misogyny permeates our culture as a whole and stands alone from things like religion or political affiliation.

I'm sorry, I don't know how to interpret that. That would seem to say misogyny is equally present in all aspects of our culture, which isn't true. And it's certainly true that misogyny is much more often found in some religious and political affiliations.

85 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:06:06am

re: #80 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

I don't even know what birth control pills cost anymore. Anyone have the data?

$10 to $50, depending on generic/brand and location.

(I know because I don't have insurance and do have a daughter who needs them for more than 'just sex'.)

86 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:06:17am

re: #72 iossarian

Agree up to a point, though I think it would have spared them the headaches if they'd made it the guy who was going to the corner store on crutches.

Totally agree. Their imagery undermines the intended humor of the ad, and makes it a total misfire.

87 elizajane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:06:30am

Anybody surprised by this line has not been reading comment threads on right-leaning blogs. The "aspirin between the knees" line is used in, I swear, 10% of the comments, often added to thoughts about "why should I spend my tax dollars helping some sl*t to spread her legs whenever she wants?"

The Dark Ages are alive and well on those sites.

88 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:06:35am

re: #82 Coracle

That's incorrect. You'd get it if you've ever thrown your back out or bruised your head (or other body part) against a piece of furniture during sex.

I have. And I'm sorry, what do you mean by 'that's incorrect'?

However, PETA overestimates that audience, and the understanding of those outside that audience, so in the end, it is indeed a stupid ad for their cause.

Er, are you saying PETA overestimated me?

89 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:06:53am

re: #85 kirkspencer

$10 to $50, depending on generic/brand and location.

(I know because I don't have insurance and do have a daughter who needs them for more than 'just sex'.)

Dude, just buy her some Aspirin.
/

90 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:07:07am

re: #84 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I don't know how to interpret that. That would seem to say misogyny is equally present in all aspects of our culture, which isn't true. And it's certainly true that misogyny is much more often found in some religious and political affiliations.

I think that Libertarians generally lack empathy, and express it through politics.

91 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:07:09am

re: #66 Coracle

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with both of you. The advert was badly done, but was not meant to advocate abusive sex in any way. Violent sex is not a subset of abusive sex; rather the opposite. Mutually consensual rough sex - which is what is implied in the ad - doesn't connote or denote abuse of women. The ad fails to make a strong enough differentiation, but it's obviously not the ad's intent to claim "women like to be beaten up during sex if it's the right guy."

So I agree the ad is ripe to be misinterpreted, but all these "the ad promotes sexual abuse" claims are exactly that: misinterpretations.

I only watched the ad once, but the takeaway that I got was that sex was better because it was more violent. I'm not going to watch the ad again, much less over and over, to get all its nuances.

PETA are asshats.

92 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:07:50am

The day aspirin is used as birth control is the day that Republicans will want to outlaw aspirin.

//

93 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:08:37am

re: #81 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The ad's stupid emphasis on violent sex completely overshadowed their bogus claim that a vegan diet is better than viagra.

Agreed. But I think this emphasis is a part of the plot: "oh, this vegan is so good that I'll put up even with the broken neck!"

94 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:08:44am

re: #84 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I don't know how to interpret that. That would seem to say misogyny is equally present in all aspects of our culture, which isn't true. And it's certainly true that misogyny is much more often found in some religious and political affiliations.

I'm not sure I entirely agree. It might manifest itself in more obvious and more extreme manners, but I don't think it is really any less common. I've seen plenty of supposedly progressive people and groups make extremely misogynistic comments and actions. I'm not trying to invoke the MBF here, since I don't think the damage done is the same, but the thinking is still there in some form.

95 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:09:05am

@EricBoehlert
Rep. Issa: no women allowed to testify about birth control.
Santorum sugar daddy: ladies use aspirin as birth control; #gendergapGOP

96 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:09:26am

Penises don't cause pregnancy; only vaginas do. -- Republican Party Platform

//

97 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:09:33am

re: #82 Coracle

That's incorrect. You'd get it if you've ever thrown your back out or bruised your head (or other body part) against a piece of furniture during sex. However, PETA overestimates that audience, and the understanding of those outside that audience, so in the end, it is indeed a stupid ad for their cause.

I have never been hurt during sex, and I don't think that I would have wanted to continue having sex if I sustained a severe injury. It would put me right off the mood!

PETA is addressing a very small audience of males with rape fantasies.

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:09:39am

re: #83 Kragar

[Video]

Damn, I thought it would be Austin Powers.

99 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:10:22am

re: #92 Gus

The day aspirin is used as birth control is the day that Republicans will want to outlaw aspirin.

//

Boom!

100 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:10:24am

re: #94 Simply Sarah

I'm not sure I entirely agree. It might manifest itself in more obvious and more extreme manners, but I don't think it is really any less common.

Really? So, you think the amount of misogyny present in an all-female Quaker meeting that fundraises for female scholarships, and the amount of mysoginy present in the Women-Haters Club of Asshole Guys, Indiana, is the same?

I've seen plenty of supposedly progressive people and groups make extremely misogynistic comments and actions.

That doesn't mean it's the same level, at all, though. It means it's present. Not to the same extent.

101 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:10:34am

re: #88 Obdicut

I have. And I'm sorry, what do you mean by 'that's incorrect'?

Er, are you saying PETA overestimated me?

I am saying PETA overestimates the size (and appreciation) of the audience that would identify humor in 'injury sustained during enthusiastic sex'.

By 'that's incorrect' I mean that the statement "The ad prompts an idea that large injury during sex is something that the average woman would be comfortable with" is incorrect.

102 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:10:45am

re: #99 e_e

Boom!

[Dobro slide.]

//

103 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:10:52am

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

The President, you know he's gone to church to twenty years in Chicago but he's really secular.

A Christian Deist is someone who wears the label "Christian" but they really act and live as if God doesn't really get involved in affairs and He's not really close. And I would even call them Christian Atheists. They're Christians by label but they really act like God's not alive.

I've got a lot of folks I can point to who are Christian Deists or Atheists and I'd put the President in there as one of them. He's more secularist but he'll tell you he's a Christian. He gets offended if you say he's not and he's always challenged anyone who claims he was a Muslim, not a Christian. Great, alright, but you're a Christian Atheist, you're a Christian Deist.

So it's really a distinction on how pious you are.

Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

104 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:11:01am

re: #93 e_e

Agreed. But I think this emphasis is a part of the plot: "oh, this vegan is so good that I'll put up even with the broken neck!"

Has it not ever occurred to you PETA that maybe women would prefer to have great sex WITHOUT a crippling injury? That in fact sex is even better if you don't get hurt?

No, because PETA is a porno production company.

105 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:08am

re: #101 Coracle

By 'that's incorrect' I mean that the statement "The ad prompts an idea that large injury during sex is something that the average woman would be comfortable with" is incorrect.

So the women being portrayed are supposed to be exceptional women?

106 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:10am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

At first there was the Communist-Crony-Capitalist!

Now we have the Christian-Atheist!

I tell you what man. Obama's every you want him to be. //

107 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:14am

Minority Outreach!

108 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:17am

re: #91 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I only watched the ad once, but the takeaway that I got was that sex was better because it was more violent. I'm not going to watch the ad again, much less over and over, to get all its nuances.

PETA are asshats.

I only watched it once as well. We took away different things. That you were even able to take away what you did means, again, the ad was an abject failure on multiple levels.

109 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:30am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton actually may be right. And there's nothing wrong with this either. A very very very liberal Christian, so to say.

110 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:50am

re: #100 Obdicut

Really? So, you think the amount of misogyny present in an all-female Quaker meeting that fundraises for female scholarships, and the amount of mysoginy present in the Women-Haters Club of Asshole Guys, Indiana, is the same?

That doesn't mean it's the same level, at all, though. It means it's present. Not to the same extent.

OK, yes, the level isn't the same and I should be clear that I more meant the presence is everywhere more than I meant the strength is identical.

111 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:55am

Barrack HUSSEIN Obama iz a Communist-Crony-Capitalist-Christian-Atheist!

112 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:12:56am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

This is a promotion from Sekrit Muslim, isn't it?

113 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:13:04am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

Nontoxic toxins!

114 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:13:51am

re: #110 Simply Sarah

OK, yes, the level isn't the same and I should be clear that I more meant the presence is everywhere more than I meant the strength is identical.

Well, sure, even language is coded with misogynistic crap. But that's relatively unimportant compared to active, vivacious, whackadoodle misogyny.

115 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:14:09am

re: #109 e_e

Barton actually may be right. And there's nothing wrong with this either. A very very very liberal Christian, so to say.

re: #109 e_e

Barton actually may be right. And there's nothing wrong with this either. A very very very liberal Christian, so to say.

Possibly but it's impossible to tell. American Politicians have to claim to be religious, preferably Christian. It's mandatory.

116 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:14:16am

re: #113 Varek Raith

Nontoxic toxins!

Warning: Contents are flammably (spl) inflammable.

117 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:14:21am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

I've got a lot of folks I can point to who are Christian Deists or Atheists and I'd put the President in there as one of them.

As were many of the founding fathers and people living in the 'almost' states at that time.

118 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:14:43am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

And this gibbering, feces-flinging quack is a major player in GOP ideological circles. If he really believes this heaven/hell/final judgment stuff, I'm the queen of Thailand.

119 erik_t  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:14:45am

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"

Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

I don't want to live in a country where 'secular' and 'atheist' are synonymous.

120 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:16:09am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

re: #109 e_e

Possibly but it's impossible to tell. American Politicians have to claim to be religious, preferably Christian. It's mandatory.

And unconstitutional

121 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:16:13am

re: #109 e_e

Barton actually may be right. And there's nothing wrong with this either. A very very very liberal Christian, so to say.

Not at all. His 'theory' is that Obama says he's a Christian, but acts like God doesn't exist. This is only true if you believe the theory that the way to act like a 'true Christian' is to hate liberals, Democrats and the poor, and demonise anyone who doesn't look, act, or think like you.

122 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:16:26am

re: #114 Obdicut

Well, sure, even language is coded with misogynistic crap. But that's relatively unimportant compared to active, vivacious, whackadoodle misogyny.

Yes and no. In some ways, I feel the less obvious, more insidious kinds of misogynistic thought, the kinds people generally don't even realize they have, are just as bad as the craziness. It still works to oppress women, even if only subconsciously, and it is harder to find and call out for the very fact that it isn't extreme and loud.

123 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:16:28am

Peaceful protest update...
Police break up group vandalizing East Liberty

Between 40 and 50 people jumped on cars and tried to break windows early this morning in East Liberty, Pittsburgh police said.

Police received a report of a bandana-clad group vandalizing property about 12:50 a.m. at Baum Boulevard and South Highland Avenue, Pittsburgh police spokeswoman Diane Richard said.

The people jumped on cars, attempted to break windows and littered the streets, Richard said. Police cited several people, she said, but didn't provide a number.

She said police learned that many of the people may be affiliated with a group calling themselves "Occupy Everything" and were celebrating "their escapades" at the nearby Shadow Lounge. Richard said she didn't know what "Occupy Everything" is.

Isolated incident!
/

124 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:17:11am

re: #118 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

And this gibbering, feces-flinging quack is a major player in GOP ideological circles. If he really believes this heaven/hell/final judgment stuff, I'm the queen of Thailand.

Well, your Majesty, I think it's entirely possible that he is a true believer. Which doesn't make it actually true.

125 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:17:19am

re: #105 Obdicut

So the women being portrayed are supposed to be exceptional women?

No. The sex being inferred in the ad is being portrayed as catastrophically good. Look, I get it. I agree that the ad is failing to do what it intends. But it is not trying to portray women as willing victims of abuse.

126 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:17:31am

The key question now: Just how much of the population is stupid enough to buy the message of Barton and Friess and their ilk? Is it enough to elect Santorum to the presidency? God help us if it is.

127 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:17:40am

re: #120 RayFerd

And unconstitutional

Not really. It's not an official rule but it's what American voters have decided.

128 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:18:30am

In the end, the objective of these gentlemen (using the term loosely) is a Randian anarchy. The government can make rules, but nobody is obligated or required to obey those rules.

The assumption, as is common with all anarchists, is that some hitherto unsuccessful mechanism will cause everyone to generally cooperate. The mechanisms have included altruism, the Holy Spirit, and the Hand of the Market.

When they fail, of course, it is due to sabotage from those who were not pure enough.

129 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:18:33am

re: #122 Simply Sarah

Yes and no. In some ways, I feel the less obvious, more insidious kinds of misogynistic thought, the kinds people generally don't even realize they have, are just as bad as the craziness.

Why 'just as bad'?

It still works to oppress women, even if only subconsciously, and it is harder to find and call out for the very fact that it isn't extreme and loud.

It also is less harmful, though apparently you don't think that.

For example, compare the default gender for pronouns being masculine to a law criminalizing the education of women. Would you say those are both equally harmful?

130 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:18:53am

@EricBoehlert
impressive; @andrewbreitbart's legal team continues to amass legal losses prior to Sherrod case going to trial

Federal Judge: Blogger Likely 'Overreaching' with Anti-SLAPP Motion
In the statement of reasons filed today, [U.S. District Judge Richard] Leon said he denied the motion because the law, which went into effect last March, couldn’t be applied retroactively to Sherrod’s case, which was filed the month before. Even if the law could be applied retroactively, Leon wrote that the defendants missed their time window to file the motion.

“Regrettably,” Leon wrote, “it appears that the defendants will not be satisfied with this Court’s ruling until a considerable amount of additional judicial and litigant resources are expended on its ‘novel,’ if not overreaching, motion.”

131 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:19:05am

re: #125 Coracle

No. The sex being inferred in the ad is being portrayed as catastrophically good. Look, I get it. I agree that the ad is failing to do what it intends. But it is not trying to portray women as willing victims of abuse.

Honestly, I see little value in trying to work out what was intended vs. what the ad actually says in this particular situation. It's just another extremely exploitative and misogynistic ad from the extremely exploitative and misogynistic PETA.

132 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:20:26am

re: #104 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Has it not ever occurred to you that maybe women would prefer to have great sex WITHOUT a crippling injury?

Actually, no. I always thought you have to break a wall with her body during sex.//

Sheesh.

That in fact sex is even better if you don't get hurt?

That's the whole idiotic point of the ad. That "she'll stay with you despite the negatives, so good you will become after going vegan; imagine the possibilities". In the place of this guy you could place some teen with zits, to the same effect (without violence). The implication wouldn't be "see how zits improve sex". The implication would be "see how she will like you with warts and all". The Axe ads use the same basic plot.

133 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:20:31am

re: #125 Coracle

No. The sex being inferred in the ad is being portrayed as catastrophically good. Look, I get it. I agree that the ad is failing to do what it intends. But it is not trying to portray women as willing victims of abuse.

*face palm*

Has it occurred to you that sex can be fantasically good WITHOUT painful injury? That you can enjoy fabulous sex WITHOUT spraining your neck or breaking a rib?

134 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:21:04am

re: #125 Coracle

No. The sex being inferred in the ad is being portrayed as catastrophically good.

What does that have to do with whether the women were supposed to be everywomen? Isn't the point of the ad for women to want this, to relate to the ad?

Look, I get it. I agree that the ad is failing to do what it intends. But it is not trying to portray women as willing victims of abuse

I'm not saying it is, and I don't know why you think I am. It's portraying the average woman-- since the women in the ads are not supposed to be exceptional women-- as being comfortable with a very high level of injury during sex. Which, you know, isn't the case. That's what I'm saying. Whether or not it's 'abuse' is dependent on consent.

135 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:22:32am

re: #129 Obdicut

Why 'just as bad'?

It also is less harmful, though apparently you don't think that.

For example, compare the default gender for pronouns being masculine to a law criminalizing the education of women. Would you say those are both equally harmful?

Well, what I mean are that very sexist concepts of women, such as our ability to reason or lead or be strong, that exist in the general culture. To me, criminalizing us being educated is simply a more extreme extension of that thinking. In my view, the underlying beliefs are still the ones doing the damage, since I don't think the actions would exist without them.

136 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:22:45am

re: #133 Look At My New Grandbaby!

*face palm*

Has it occurred to you that sex can be fantasically good WITHOUT painful injury? That you can enjoy fabulous sex WITHOUT spraining your neck or breaking a rib?

Obviously, yes. And I'll say yet again, that the ad tried to make the 'uber enthusiastic sex' a joke and failed on many levels.

137 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:22:54am

re: #132 e_e

PETA's main objective was to get people talking about their ad. Well, they have succeeded.

I'll shut up now.

PETA SUCKS.

138 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:23:08am

re: #126 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

The key question now: Just how much of the population is stupid enough to buy the message of Barton and Friess and their ilk? Is it enough to elect Santorum to the presidency? God help us if it is.

Only a minority will buy all of their message. However, the saturation of Conservativist propaganda is definitely enough to make a majority believe some of their message. And that's all it takes - enough people who say 'oh, Obama's not a Kenyan Muslim, but he's definitely a socialist dictator'. And just like that, Americans will have voted to hurt themselves by electing people who promise to actively harm the country.

139 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:23:19am

re: #137 Look At My New Grandbaby!

PETA's main objective was to get people talking about their ad. Well, they have succeeded.

I'll shut up now.

PETA SUCKS.

On that we agree.

140 erik_t  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:24:01am

re: #137 Look At My New Grandbaby!

PETA's main objective was to get people talking about their ad. Well, they have succeeded.

I'll shut up now.

PETA SUCKS.

Group hug!

142 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:25:15am

Sheesh. The wingnuts are really out in force on Twitter today. I've already added 6 names to my Tweetdeck global filter.

143 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:25:42am
144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:26:47am

So I decided to search for axe ads, and found this one:

145 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:27:11am

re: #134 Obdicut

What does that have to do with whether the women were supposed to be everywomen?

In my opinion, nothing. They're not supposed to be 'everywomen'

Isn't the point of the ad for women to want this, to relate to the ad?

No, I think they aimed at a demographic they thought was larger an than it is.

146 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:28:53am

re: #92 Gus

The day aspirin is used as birth control is the day that Republicans will want to outlaw aspirin.

//

They won't outlaw it outright: men still get headaches. Women will just have to get a note fro their husband/priest/male guardian to obtain it...

147 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:31:04am

re: #135 Simply Sarah

Well, what I mean are that very sexist concepts of women, such as our ability to reason or lead or be strong, that exist in the general culture. To me, criminalizing us being educated is simply a more extreme extension of that thinking. In my view, the underlying beliefs are still the ones doing the damage, since I don't think the actions would exist without them.

But more extreme versions of thinking are more harmful, right?

148 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:31:06am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Peaceful protest update...
Police break up group vandalizing East Liberty

Isolated incident!
/

As isolated as copycats can be.

149 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:31:12am

re: #146 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

They won't outlaw it outright: men still get headaches. Women will just have to get a note from their husband/priest/male guardian to obtain it...

And even then, they won't be able to fill their prescription for aspirin without being accompanied by a male relative or guardian. =P

150 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:31:45am

re: #145 Coracle

Who are the women supposed to be, then, if not women the women watching the ads can identify with? And why would it be an effective ad, if the women watching it can't identify with the women?

151 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:32:39am

Religious liberty!

152 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:32:42am

re: #147 Obdicut

But more extreme versions of thinking are more harmful, right?

In specific situations, sure. But that doesn't negate the fact that the underlying thinking itself is the problem.

153 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:33:49am

re: #150 Obdicut

Who are the women supposed to be, then, if not women the women watching the ads can identify with? And why would it be an effective ad, if the women watching it can't identify with the women?

I think the ad was targeted at guys.

154 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:34:26am

re: #150 Obdicut

Who are the women supposed to be, then, if not women the women watching the ads can identify with? And why would it be an effective ad, if the women watching it can't identify with the women?

You've hit it on the head - the ad is not an effective ad because most women don't identify with the one in the ad. The ad missed.

155 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:35:13am

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Not really. It's not an official rule but it's what American voters have decided.

To ask about and require a politician to be of a certain (or any) religion is not unconstitutional? I think the founders beg to differ.


Article 6, paragraph 3. United States Constitution:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

156 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:35:45am

re: #153 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I think the ad was targeted at guys.

In which case it was also a bad miss.

158 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:36:23am

re: #152 Simply Sarah

In specific situations, sure. But that doesn't negate the fact that the underlying thinking itself is the problem.

I really don't think that's causative at all, though. The language and other things don't cause these misogynistic attitudes. These assholes wouldn't stop their war on women if we called women "men" and men "women".

What I'm saying is that things at are more misogynistic are worse than things that are less misogynistic. Is there any problem with that statement?

159 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:36:45am

re: #155 RayFerd

To ask about and require a politician to be of a certain (or any) religion is not unconstitutional? I think the founders beg to differ.

Article 6, paragraph 3. United States Constitution:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Pff, that part isn't really meant to be enforced. Its like that whole section about the judicial system, its just window dressing.
/

160 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:37:29am

re: #153 Look At My New Grandbaby!

I think the ad was targeted at guys.

Wow, that'd be even more off-base. Yech.

161 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:38:22am

re: #159 Kragar

But Killgore is right; you can't stop people from refusing to vote for a Jew, fro example. You can make sure that Jews are allowed to run for office, but if someone says "I didn't vote for him because he's the wrong religion", you can't arrest that person.

162 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:38:38am

re: #160 Obdicut

Wow, that'd be even more off-base. Yech.

The ad was actually targeted at normal people to get them all outraged and talk about it.

This is my final word on the topic.

I'll shut up now.

For real.

163 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:38:56am

Again: nobody is forcing women to use birth control, nobody is forcing the Catholic Church to approve of it.

They are free to voice their disapproval of its use and to excommunicate people who use it if they wish to. That is Freedom of Religion in America

They are just required by law to offer it and allow women the choice of using it or not.

They do seem to have a trouble with this freedom of choice thing...

164 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:39:25am

re: #162 Look At My New Grandbaby!

Well, I don't think they thought their cunning plan all the way through. As Komen can tell you, not all publicity is good publicity.

165 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:39:29am
166 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:40:10am

re: #165 Coracle

Yeah, that kind of made me go through the list of positions where the woman could easily hold an aspirin between her knees.

Long list.

167 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:40:20am

re: #163 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

They do seem to have a trouble with this freedom of choice thing...

That's because free thought and free will are a problem when your entire religious structure depends on a rigid hierarchy and absolute obedience to that power structure.

168 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:40:26am

Detroit underwear bomber to get life sentence

A Detroit federal judge is refusing to set aside a federal law that requires a mandatory life sentence for a Nigerian who pleaded guilty to trying to blow up an international flight bound for Detroit on Christmas 2009.
...
"The Quran obliges every able Muslim to participate in jihad and fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, and kill them wherever you find them … an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," Abdulmutallab said.
...
His groin was badly burned

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:40:33am

re: #155 RayFerd

To ask about and require a politician to be of a certain (or any) religion is not unconstitutional? I think the founders beg to differ.

Article 6, paragraph 3. United States Constitution:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

This pertains to laws. No law can be made barring someone from office because of her religion.
Obviously, private citizens can ask about religion and decide on the basis of that answer.

170 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:40:33am

re: #165 Coracle

Reagan probably couldn't imagine that either.

171 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:40:43am

Santorum In Idaho: Sell Off Public Lands To The Private Sector

But there’s a lot of land out there that is land that can and should be managed by stewards who care about that land. I believe the land is there to serve man, not man there to serve the land. If we turn that, obviously, BLM, they just don’t — look, we’re not going to have the resources to manage this land correctly. The federal government doesn’t care about it, they don’t care about this land. They don’t live here, they don’t care about it, we don’t care about it in Washington. It’s just flyover country for most of the bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.

We need to get it back into the hands of the states and even to the private sector. And we can make money doing it, we can make money doing it by selling it. So I believe that this is critically important.

172 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:41:20am

re: #166 Obdicut

Like I said, these guys have no imagination. Their poor wives. Or mistresses. Or whatever.

173 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:41:40am

re: #155 RayFerd

To ask about and require a politician to be of a certain (or any) religion is not unconstitutional? I think the founders beg to differ.

Article 6, paragraph 3. United States Constitution:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

There is no test. Atheists are still legally eligible to run and serve.

174 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:43:33am

re: #155 RayFerd

You must have missed it. The pocket constitution used by certain candidates have been abridged to only the following:

For Newt: I wanna be the president damnit, and what I say goes. You remember the quote, Damn the Torpedoes? Full Speed Ahead? Well, Damn the Constitution, It's what I say and that's it!

For GOPers, only the 2d and 10th amendments are included. The 1st has been restricted such that religion means only those religious groups to which they belong should be entitled to rights and privileges protected and further have the right to infringe on the religious rights and practices of all others.

A religious test for office is sufficient when you're talking about Muslims (imagine the hue and cry if you changed Muslim to Christian (or Baptist or RC or Presbyterian, etc. and sought to determine whether a candidate was worthy for a post by excluding someone who was Christian).

175 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:43:35am

re: #167 Lidane

That's because free thought and free will are a problem when your entire religious structure depends on a rigid hierarchy and absolute obedience to that power structure.

It also has to do with their notion that we are unable to control ourselves and our base animalistic urges: only fear of unwanted pregnancy will keep women from behaving like wanton libertines.

176 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:43:52am

You just can't make this shit up anymore. These people are a parody of themselves:

NH's Rep. Notter Claims Birth Control Causes Prostate Cancer

177 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:44:22am

re: #5 wrenchwench

It was only if they were really lucky that it was an actual medical doctor.

178 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:44:25am

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION - ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS

Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

Yeah, it's not "enforced" and blah, blah.

179 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:44:48am

re: #176 Lidane

You just can't make this shit up anymore. These people are a parody of themselves:

NH's Rep. Notter Claims Birth Control Causes Prostate Cancer

[Video]

THINK OF ALL THOSE WOMENS' POOR PROSTATES!
/

180 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:45:15am

re: #165 Coracle

Lemme consult the Kama Sutra for suitable positions....

Processing.... processing... processing.

Yes, that would be an acceptable position. /

181 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:45:48am

re: #178 Gus

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION - ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS

Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

Yeah, it's not "enforced" and blah, blah.

Well, what if that "Supreme Being" is the face he sees every morning in the mirror? Or that green foldy stuff in his wallet? I see no problem or conflict there...

182 JeffM70  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:45:59am

What are these wingnuts seeing that emboldens them to air their hatefulness so openly? I mean they aren't even trying to sugar-coat it. They're being about as blunt as, well a forced transvaginal ultrasound.

183 Bulworth  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:46:26am

re: #179 Kragar

THINK OF ALL THOSE WOMEN'S POOR PROSTATES!
/

Womenz taking the pill gives teh men teh cancer. /

184 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:46:37am

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265
"No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8
"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article VI
Section 2:

"No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."
Section 5: The oath of office ends in,
"So help me God."

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

185 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:46:40am

re: #176 Lidane

Poor Mr. Notter. I think Mrs. Notter's using it wrong.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:46:43am

re: #178 Gus

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION - ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS

Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

Yeah, it's not "enforced" and blah, blah.

It's the same as when slaveowners interpreted the DoI. "All men are created equal" - of course it only pertains to white males!

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:47:28am

re: #181 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Well, what if that "Supreme Being" is the face he sees every morning in the mirror? Or that green foldy stuff in his wallet? I see no problem or conflict there...

"I acknowledge the existence of my wife". Not as offensive to the voters ;)

188 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:47:29am
189 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:47:45am

re: #185 jaunte

Poor Mr. Notter. I think Mrs. Notter's using it wrong.

He never did recover from Mrs. Notter shoving her entire birth control prescription up his ass for his being a total moron.

///

190 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:48:52am

re: #158 Obdicut

I really don't think that's causative at all, though. The language and other things don't cause these misogynistic attitudes. These assholes wouldn't stop their war on women if we called women "men" and men "women".

What I'm saying is that things at are more misogynistic are worse than things that are less misogynistic. Is there any problem with that statement?

I suppose I just don't look at things that way. To me, misogyny is misogyny.

191 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:49:34am

re: #171 Kragar

That kind of sentiment goes over real well in the West (places like ID, WY, SD, ND, UT, NV, NM,) where the BLM, NPS, and other federal agencies like the Defense Department control access to land and/or manage lands for forestry, mining, cattle grazing, and other purposes.

Mind you that those grazing cattle on those lands are probably getting a cut rate discount for those activities, and by limiting mining and other activities on those federal lands, they are protecting other nearby resources, including national parks, aquifers for irrigation and human consumption, and preserving resources for future generations.

192 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:50:30am

re: #189 Lidane

He never did recover from Mrs. Notter shoving her entire birth control prescription up his ass for his being a total moron.

///

Next up, the GOP investigate Viagra for causing cervical cancer.

193 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:52:27am

re: #191 lawhawk

...they are protecting other nearby resources, including national parks, aquifers for irrigation and human consumption, and preserving resources for future generations.

Capitalism and the Free market system can be very effective, when managed properly, at balancing supply with demand and directing flows of capital to where they are the most beneficial.

But the Free market is complete crap when it comes to managing and maintaining natural resources. The system encourages monopolism and complete exploitation of resources and completely warps the market and the flow of capital.

194 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:53:21am

re: #184 Gus
Interesting. I have to wonder why those laws are still on the books and haven't been overruled by the Supremes. The only thing I can think of is that to have a case an athiest would have to campaign, win an election, then get thrown out of office. That would be really tough in a state like Mississippi.

195 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:53:25am

re: #190 Simply Sarah

I suppose I just don't look at things that way. To me, misogyny is misogyny.

Sure. And violence is violence. But someone hitting me on the head with a pencil and someone shooting me in the femur are still different and should be treated differently, yeah?

196 bubba zanetti  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:55:19am

re: #166 Obdicut

Yeah, that kind of made me go through the list of positions where the woman could easily hold an aspirin between her knees.

Long list.

Isn't there a 2 Live Crew song covering this?

197 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:55:26am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

I think some states have taken to allowing alternative oaths of office that pass muster precisely because it can be so difficult to amend even a state constitution.

198 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:56:33am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Interesting. I have to wonder why those laws are still on the books and haven't been overruled by the Supremes. The only thing I can think of is that to have a case an athiest would have to campaign, win an election, then get thrown out of office. That would be really tough in a state like Mississippi.

Well, unless specifically repealed or otherwise struck, unconstitutional laws and constitutional clauses remain in place, just without any effect. For example, Lawrence v. Texas made bans on sodomy unconstitutional, but some states have refused to repeal their non-functional laws in order to show disapproval with the ruling.

199 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:57:09am

re: #197 lawhawk

I think some states have taken to allowing alternative oaths of office that pass muster precisely because it can be so difficult to amend even a state constitution.

Ah, that makes sense.

200 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:57:20am

re: #198 Simply Sarah

Well, unless specifically repealed or otherwise struck, unconstitutional laws and constitutional clauses remain in place, just without any effect. For example, Lawrence v. Texas made bans on sodomy unconstitutional, but some states have refused to repeal their non-functional laws in order to show disapproval with the ruling.

If we do not ban sodomy, it is tanamount to encouraging people to do it, because we cannot control our base instincts and need the moral corset of legislation to keep us in line...

201 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:59:12am

re: #169 e_e

This pertains to laws. No law can be made barring someone from office because of her religion.
Obviously, private citizens can ask about religion and decide on the basis of that answer.

Fair and good, as Odi pointed out. I must have read it wrong. But I can DEFINITELY see it coming to that if 'those' people get their way.

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:59:14am

Heh. I see Camera promotes Third Jihad. "To see the documentary, go to ..."

203 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 11:59:46am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Interesting. I have to wonder why those laws are still on the books and haven't been overruled by the Supremes. The only thing I can think of is that to have a case an athiest would have to campaign, win an election, then get thrown out of office. That would be really tough in a state like Mississippi.

No, what it would take is for an atheist to try to get on the ballot and be denied because of this.

Because one of the requirements for being on the ballot is "eligible for office".

204 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:00:23pm

re: #195 Obdicut

Sure. And violence is violence. But someone hitting me on the head with a pencil and someone shooting me in the femur are still different and should be treated differently, yeah?

You also need to understand I'm coming from a position of realizing mainstream feminism has a long, disgusting history of focusing on certain kinds of misogyny (Specifically, the kinds that most effect able-bodied straight middle class white cis women) to the exclusion of other types. As a result, I'm very wary of ranking certain kinds of misogyny as more or less bad.

205 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:00:41pm

re: #202 e_e

Heh. I see Camera promotes Third Jihad. "To see the documentary, go to ..."

Ugh.

206 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:01:27pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

There is no test. Atheists are still legally eligible to run and serve.

Fair enough. I prob read your response wrong (jumping in here between compiles and testing). But as I said in response above, I can see the religious right more than willing to ignore that if the chance came for them to try.

207 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:03:14pm

re: #206 RayFerd

Fair enough. I prob read your response wrong (jumping in here between compiles and testing). But as I said in response above, I can see the religious right more than willing to ignore that if the chance came for them to try.

This is the thinking behind their assertion that "Islam is not a relgion, it is a political system"

They want to keep practicing Muslims from obtaining political office wherever they can.

208 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:03:17pm

re: #176 Lidane

You just can't make this shit up anymore. These people are a parody of themselves:

NH's Rep. Notter Claims Birth Control Causes Prostate Cancer

[Video]

If it did in his girlfriend, he better check some things out with 'her' parents.

209 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:03:23pm

Christian Atheists? David Barton thinks he found one.

210 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:04:25pm

Intruder alert!

211 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:04:55pm

Check the fence. Notify the airmen.

//

212 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:05:39pm

re: #204 Simply Sarah

You also need to understand I'm coming from a position of realizing mainstream feminism has a long, disgusting history of focusing on certain kinds of misogyny (Specifically, the kinds that most effect able-bodied straight middle class white cis women) to the exclusion of other types. As a result, I'm very wary of ranking certain kinds of misogyny as more or less bad.

It's pretty trivially obvious to me that some misogyny is worse than other forms of misogyny. Someone shooting a woman for doing something is more harmful than someone yelling at a woman for doing something. This has nothing to do with social/class division or anything of that nature.

213 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:05:45pm

re: #211 Gus

Check the fence. Notify the airmenpeople.

//

I couldn't resist.

214 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:06:15pm

re: #211 Gus

Check the fence. Notify the airmen.

//

Notify the seamen!
//

215 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:06:22pm

re: #176 Lidane

You just can't make this shit up anymore. These people are a parody of themselves:

NH's Rep. Notter Claims Birth Control Causes Prostate Cancer

[Video]

I saw a report a while back that the estrogen from birth control pills might be getting into drinking water, and thereby slightly increasing the risk of prostate cancer for men. That's probably what Notter's referring to, but she has it completely garbled - she seems to think it gets directly into men from women when they're, you know, gettin' they freak on.

216 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:07:32pm

re: #210 Gus

Intruder alert!

Crap, I've been seen. Uhm...er...*waves hand* these aren't the droids you're looking for.

//

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:08:24pm

re: #216 Targetpractice

Crap, I've been seen. Uhm...er...*waves hand* these aren't the droids you're looking for.

//

Is that so? They're disposable then. *pew pew pew*

218 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:08:38pm

re: #215 Charles Johnson

I saw a report a while back that the estrogen from birth control pills might be getting into drinking water, and thereby slightly increasing the risk of prostate cancer for men. That's probably what Notter's referring to, but she has it completely garbled - she seems to think it gets directly into men from women when they're, you know, gettin' they freak on.

Only problem with that particular big of gobbledeygook: Pregnant women also release high levels of estrogen.

219 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:09:28pm

re: #218 Obdicut

Only problem with that particular big of gobbledeygook: Pregnant women also release high levels of estrogen.

So sex causes cancer?

220 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:09:46pm

re: #217 e_e

Is that so? They're disposable then. *pew pew pew*

*sigh* Thing just ain't been the same since Tatooine.

/

221 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:10:06pm

re: #219 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

So sex causes cancer?

My wife would say "Life causes cancer".

222 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:11:18pm

re: #218 Obdicut

Only problem with that particular big of gobbledeygook: Pregnant women also release high levels of estrogen.

So do petrochemicals, but the GOP is in love with those.

223 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:11:50pm
I would hope Friess apologizes for the statement — and that, at some point, Santorum makes clear he doesn’t share such sentiments.

Don't hold your breath.

224 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:13:07pm

re: #212 Obdicut

It's pretty trivially obvious to me that some misogyny is worse than other forms of misogyny. Someone shooting a woman for doing something is more harmful than someone yelling at a woman for doing something. This has nothing to do with social/class division or anything of that nature.

I'm perhaps not being entirely rational here. My point is, one may be less 'harmful' than the other, but they are both harmful and I'm not willing to accept either of them.

225 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:13:17pm

re: #184 Gus

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

I broke the Pennsylvania law for 4 years as the elected Judge of Elections for my precinct then if the law means that an atheist can't hold office.

As I reread that article, it seems to read more like you cannot disqualify them if they DO believe in a god, not if they don't.

226 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:14:15pm

re: #224 Simply Sarah

I'm perhaps not being entirely rational here. My point is, one may be less 'harmful' than the other, but they are both harmful and I'm not willing to accept either of them.

Okay, what did that have to do with anything I was saying?

227 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:15:04pm

re: #103 Kragar

Barton: Obama is a "Christian Atheist"


Go eat a bag of dicks, Barton

I'd ask him when G-d made him the judge of someone else's faith.

228 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:16:12pm

Troll on deck. New reg.

229 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:16:17pm

re: #227 leftynyc

I'd ask him when G-d made him the judge of someone else's faith.

That is the point: these people want to be allowed to set legal standards for their interpretation of God's Law.

And that is the very thing that the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent from happening.

230 allegro  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:16:38pm

re: #212 Obdicut

It's pretty trivially obvious to me that some misogyny is worse than other forms of misogyny. Someone shooting a woman for doing something is more harmful than someone yelling at a woman for doing something. This has nothing to do with social/class division or anything of that nature.

Sarah is addressing the disease, you are arguing about the symptoms. Comparing the severity of the symptoms is a rather pointless diversion from addressing the disease itself.

231 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:16:44pm

re: #226 Obdicut

Okay, what did that have to do with anything I was saying?

Well, you were calling the supposedly less harmful misogyny relatively unimportant compared to more extreme kinds. I disagree that you can state that any kind is unimportant, even relatively speaking. Or, at least, not when talking about the kinds that I've seen in the general population.

232 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:17:40pm

re: #230 allegro

Sarah is addressing the disease, you are arguing about the symptoms. Comparing the severity of the symptoms is a rather pointless diversion from addressing the disease itself.

Diversion?

233 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:17:44pm

re: #215 Charles Johnson

I saw a report a while back that the estrogen from birth control pills might be getting into drinking water, and thereby slightly increasing the risk of prostate cancer for men. That's probably what Notter's referring to, but she has it completely garbled - she seems to think it gets directly into men from women when they're, you know, gettin' they freak on.

They should wear condoms to prevent that.
/

234 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:18:29pm

re: #228 Gus

Troll on deck. New reg.

We've got a lot of stirred up wingnuts out there, looking to put me in my place today.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:19:03pm

re: #225 RayFerd

I broke the Pennsylvania law for 4 years as the elected Judge of Elections for my precinct then if the law means that an atheist can't hold office.

As I reread that article, it seems to read more like you cannot disqualify them if they DO believe in a god, not if they don't.

Which means that you can disqualify them if they don't, by implication.

236 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:19:53pm
237 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:20:00pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

We've got a lot of stirred up wingnuts out there, looking to put me in my place today.

Yeah, because SHUT UP—you're irrelevant!!11!
//

238 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:20:00pm

re: #230 allegro

Sarah is addressing the disease, you are arguing about the symptoms. Comparing the severity of the symptoms is a rather pointless diversion from addressing the disease itself.

Yes, that succinctly states what I've basically been trying (And mostly failing) to talk about. Thank you for adding the clarity I've been lacking!

239 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:20:05pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

We've got a lot of stirred up wingnuts out there, looking to put me in my place today.

Seething wingnut rage and butthurt.

240 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:20:24pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

re: #109 e_e


Possibly but it's impossible to tell. American Politicians have to claim to be religious, preferably Christian. It's mandatory.

Which, considering the constitution clearly says "no religious test", makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

241 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:20:59pm

re: #231 Simply Sarah

Well, you were calling the supposedly less harmful misogyny relatively unimportant compared to more extreme kinds.

I think the less harmful kinds are less harmful.

I disagree that you can state that any kind is unimportant, even relatively speaking.

Good thing I didn't state any were unimportant, then, isn't it?

Or, at least, not when talking about the kinds that I've seen in the general population.

Mysogyny infests our culture. It is goddamn everywhere. It is why so few women go into science and engineering, and why those who do tend to cluster in certain sub-fields. It's why so many women are victimized sexually. It's why women are paid less. It's all over the goddamn place. It's a giant edifice of crap that take forever to get anywhere with, but slowly, progress gets made.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:21:08pm

re: #240 leftynyc

Which, considering the constitution clearly says "no religious test", makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

Ahh, not again.

;)

243 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:21:24pm

re: #229 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

That is the point: these people want to be allowed to set legal standards for their interpretation of God's Law.

And that is the very thing that the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent from happening.

Probably has a lot to do with the reality that the Founding Fathers, rather than being a bunch of 18th century Christian fanatics, were Enlightenment Era liberals who believed that the course for America should steer as far away as possible from the mistakes that England had made, particularly with the fact that head of state was also the head of the state religion.

244 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:21:34pm
245 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:21:44pm

re: #202 e_e

Heh. I see Camera promotes Third Jihad. "To see the documentary, go to ..."

When is Stinky going to clobber that Aigle spam-bot?

246 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:22:41pm

re: #239 Gus

Seething wingnut rage and butthurt.

Their 'freedom of conscience to tell everybody what to do' is threatened.

247 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:22:44pm

re: #171 Kragar

Santorum has his head up his ass as usual. First time the Fed tried to sell off large chunks of ground to a private group or business, The State of Idaho and 99% of the residents (me included) would raise bloody hell and block it.

248 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:22:48pm

re: #243 Targetpractice

Probably has a lot to do with the reality that the Founding Fathers, rather than being a bunch of 18th century Christian fanatics, were Enlightenment Era liberals who believed that the course for America should steer as far away as possible from the mistakes that England had made, particularly with the fact that head of state was also the head of the state religion.

Well, some were 18th century Christian fanatics. Had quite a broad range of views between them.

249 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:23:17pm

re: #236 Slumbering Behemoth

Irrelevant!

Johnson disseminates racist slurs that Fox deleted for being offensive!

250 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:23:54pm

re: #241 Obdicut

I think the less harmful kinds are less harmful.

Good thing I didn't state any were unimportant, then, isn't it?

Mysogyny infests our culture. It is goddamn everywhere. It is why so few women go into science and engineering, and why those who do tend to cluster in certain sub-fields. It's why so many women are victimized sexually. It's why women are paid less. It's all over the goddamn place. It's a giant edifice of crap that take forever to get anywhere with, but slowly, progress gets made.

There are very few women in my field, and frequently get turned down for a job application "lacks skills" even with >20 years of experience. The "skill" that is lacking is the ability to pee standing up.

251 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:24:03pm

re: #244 Kragar

Egyptian Official: GOP Has ‘Really Strange Ideas About Arabs,’ ‘Cannot Be Reasoned With’

Preaching to the choir buddy, preaching to the choir.

I find myself wondering just how much of a joke we must look to the rest of the world, that we have an empty suit, Torquemada's spiritual descendant, a thrice-married "family values" man, and a libertarian masquerading as a Republican for the purposes of remaining in office all running for the presidency of this nation.

"Bat-shit insane" doesn't begin to describe how far we've fallen.

252 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:26:04pm

re: #250 Look At My New Grandbaby!

There are very few women in my field, and frequently get turned down for a job application "lacks skills" even with >20 years of experience. The "skill" that is lacking is the ability to pee standing up.

I was at a software company where a woman got made the head of a department. Making it 1 female department heads to 9 male department heads.

Instantly, people were talking about 'affirmative action'. Because, you know, when a group that makes up 50% of the population is represented at 10%, you obviously think that they must be getting an unfair advantage.

Sigh.

253 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:26:24pm

re: #240 leftynyc

Which, considering the constitution clearly says "no religious test", makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

But you see, that's no religious test for federal office. States' rights and all that....

/

254 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:26:36pm

re: #241 Obdicut

I think the less harmful kinds are less harmful.

Fine, but harmful is harmful.

Good thing I didn't state any were unimportant, then, isn't it?

Well, you said relatively unimportant.

Mysogyny infests our culture. It is goddamn everywhere. It is why so few women go into science and engineering, and why those who do tend to cluster in certain sub-fields. It's why so many women are victimized sexually. It's why women are paid less. It's all over the goddamn place. It's a giant edifice of crap that take forever to get anywhere with, but slowly, progress gets made.

Yes, but not enough and not fast enough. And people like to pretend we're a lot further along than we really are.

255 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:26:55pm

Doesn't anyone in the GOP think it is kind of obviously crass if not unethical for a presidential candidate to have ONE primary billionaire backer?

How far does this have to go before it becomes obvious that the presidency is for sale?

257 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:29:08pm

re: #248 Simply Sarah

Well, some were 18th century Christian fanatics. Had quite a broad range of views between them.

True, but that was the theme for most everything that they brought to the table. You had Enlightened men rubbing shoulders with Christian theologists, slave owners debating with slavery opponents, proponents of a strong federal government arguing with those who supported numerous powerful state governments, and so forth.

That they worked out not only a form of government, but one that has lasted well over 2 centuries, is truly amazing.

258 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:29:25pm

Now she's down dinging the Denialgate page.

What a surprise.

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:30:18pm

re: #258 Gus

Now she's down dinging the Denialgate page.

What a surprise.

This shit has become so systemic....

260 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:30:36pm

I hate everything on Little Green Footballs!!11ty

Derp.

261 Tigger2  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:31:25pm

All I can say about this is "What a Fucking idiot"

262 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:32:06pm

re: #254 Simply Sarah

Fine, but harmful is harmful.

Yes, A=A. You'll find most people don't disagree with that.

Well, you said relatively unimportant.

I do feel that the fact that our pronouns are male-gendered is less important than an attempt to stop women from making their own health decisions. I am going to spend a lot more time and energy on the second than on the first. Do you think that's a mistake on my part, that my time would be better served not working for Emily's List and other organizations, but instead attempting to get writers to use 'she' as the default pronoun?

Yes, but not enough and not fast enough. And people like to pretend we're a lot further along than we really are.

Sure. That's why I used the present tense of 'infests'.

263 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:32:28pm

re: #252 Obdicut

I was at a software company where a woman got made the head of a department. Making it 1 female department heads to 9 male department heads.

Instantly, people were talking about 'affirmative action'. Because, you know, when a group that makes up 50% of the population is represented at 10%, you obviously think that they must be getting an unfair advantage.

Sigh.

It is actually easier for a woman who wants to go into management than it is for a woman who wants to work on factory floor applications.

264 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:32:56pm

re: #258 Gus

Now she's down dinging the Denialgate page.

What a surprise.

she knows hos badly downdings hurt us.

Ow!

Ow!! Ow!!

Ow!!! Ow!!! Ow!!!

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!

265 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:33:29pm

re: #263 Look At My New Grandbaby!

It is actually easier for a woman who wants to go into management than it is for a woman who wants to work on factory floor applications.

Yeah, I've had coworkers who could work okay with a female boss but really were assholes to any female co-worker, too. It's all a rich tapestry of bullshit.

266 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:34:09pm

re: #264 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

she knows hos badly downdings hurt us.

Ow!

Ow!! Ow!!

Ow!!! Ow!!! Ow!!!

MAKE IT STOP!!!

Stabbed with a pillow!

[Falls to the ground and utters the last words, "I'm dead."]

//

267 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:34:38pm

re: #266 Gus

Stabbed with a pillow!

[Falls to the ground and utters the last words, "I'm dead."]

//

And now...THE COMFY CHAIR!!!

268 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:34:45pm

re: #262 Obdicut

Yes, A=A. You'll find most people don't disagree with that.

I do feel that the fact that our pronouns are male-gendered is less important than an attempt to stop women from making their own health decisions. I am going to spend a lot more time and energy on the second than on the first. Do you think that's a mistake on my part, that my time would be better served not working for Emily's List and other organizations, but instead attempting to get writers to use 'she' as the default pronoun?

Sure. That's why I used the present tense of 'infests'.

Well, you were the one that brought up pronouns. I was talking about the fact that culture still tends to assume women as being lesser than men in many ways, including the actions and thoughts of supposedly enlightened people.

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:34:47pm

re: #264 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

she knows hos badly downdings hurt us.

Ow!

Ow!! Ow!!

Ow!!! Ow!!! Ow!!!

MAKE IT STOP!!!

Trying to spread her little heap of manure in as many places as possible.

270 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:34:58pm

re: #184 Gus

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265
"No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8
"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
"No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article VI
Section 2:

"No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."
Section 5: The oath of office ends in,
"So help me God."

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

I had no idea that was in any state's constitution. Makes me want to vomit all over them.

271 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:35:07pm

re: #267 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

And now...THE COMFY CHAIR!!!

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

//

272 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:35:19pm

re: #259 e_e

Speaking of denialgate, I had a feeling I was missing a "duh, obvious" point in the is-it-fake-or-not debate. That point was made by Skeptical Science:

*SkS note: Heartland could easily prove the strategy document is a fake by releasing the email which they claim contained the released documents.

273 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:35:27pm

re: #269 e_e

Trying to spread her little heap of manure in as many places as possible.

convinced that if she spreads it enough, it will grow a pony

274 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:35:37pm

re: #265 Obdicut

Yeah, I've had coworkers who could work okay with a female boss but really were assholes to any female co-worker, too. It's all a rich tapestry of bullshit.

Yeah, because managers don't have to know "tech stuff."

The silly stereotypes of "girl geeks" like Chloe on "24" and Garcia on "Criminal Minds" don't help.

275 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:36:41pm

re: #272 Interesting Times

Speaking of denialgate, I had a feeling I was missing a "duh, obvious" point in the is-it-fake-or-not debate. That point was made by Skeptical Science:

Sure, just as the opposite side could release the email in question. No side has released the actual email.

276 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:36:44pm

re: #264 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

she knows hos badly downdings hurt us.

Ow!

Ow!! Ow!!

Ow!!! Ow!!! Ow!!!

MAKE IT STOP!!!

Nothing says confidence in ones debating skills and conviction in ones arguments like bravely passive aggressively. downgrading old material people left behind days ago

277 labman57  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:37:37pm

On a related note, Santorum's supporters advocate blood-letting to treat infections and drilling a hole in one's skull to treat mental illness.

278 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:37:38pm

re: #270 leftynyc

I had no idea that was in any state's constitution. Makes me want to vomit all over them.

Khorne and Crom count, right?

279 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:38:29pm

Angry, spewey troll is angrily spewing. What a surprise. //

280 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:38:34pm

re: #268 Simply Sarah

Well, you were the one that brought up pronouns.

Yes. They're an example of misogyny in our culture.

I was talking about the fact that culture still tends to assume women as being lesser than men in many ways, including the actions and thought of supposedly enlightened people.

And one example of this is that 'he' is the default pronoun, rather than 'she'.

My point is that even though this is a problem, I do not feel it is as important to address as attempts to ban women from abortion and contraception access.

There is a limited amount of time and energy in the world. Even of on some metaphysical level, all harms are equal, that doesn't mean they can, or should be, all equally addressed.

If what you're saying is that you want to address the causative crap rather than the outputs, I think it's all a big reinforcing system Oroborusing its way through the mind, and that what some call 'symptoms' are also causative of the disease itself. You see a woman get treated bad, it makes you more likely to treat a woman bad.

281 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:39:22pm

re: #272 Interesting Times

Speaking of denialgate, I had a feeling I was missing a "duh, obvious" point in the is-it-fake-or-not debate. That point was made by Skeptical Science:

Note that their sure assertions may, in fact, mean that they will release it in time. If the truth was on my side, I would let the enemy boil in their own juices for a while, and then BAM!
However, the priority burden of proof is on the DSB.

282 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:42:22pm

re: #280 Obdicut

Yes. They're an example of misogyny in our culture.

And one example of this is that 'he' is the default pronoun, rather than 'she'.

My point is that even though this is a problem, I do not feel it is as important to address as attempts to ban women from abortion and contraception access.

There is a limited amount of time and energy in the world. Even of on some metaphysical level, all harms are equal, that doesn't mean they can, or should be, all equally addressed.

If what you're saying is that you want to address the causative crap rather than the outputs, I think it's all a big reinforcing system Oroborusing its way through the mind, and that what some call 'symptoms' are also causative of the disease itself. You see a woman get treated bad, it makes you more likely to treat a woman bad.

That's part of it, yes, but I don't think you can cure it by only treating the symptoms. As for contraceptive and abortion access, those are very important things, but for many women other types of misogyny (Such as with employment/job opportunities/pay) are far more harmful, especially, again, for those that aren't middle class white etc. women.

283 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:43:38pm

re: #242 e_e

Ahh, not again.

;)

I still say they are skirting this requirement by their always trying to "I'm more Christian than you" to get into the White House (or State House, or Congress). The spirit of that requirement is shit on every four years.

284 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:44:00pm

re: #282 Simply Sarah

That's part of it, yes, but I don't think you can cure it by only treating the symptoms. As for contraceptive and abortion access, those are very important things, but for many women other types of misogyny (Such as with employment/job opportunities/pay) are far more harmful, especially, again, for those that aren't middle class white etc. women.

and there's this:

[Link: edition.cnn.com...]

285 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:44:10pm

re: #282 Simply Sarah

That's part of it, yes, but I don't think you can cure it by only treating the symptoms.

Again: I think what are called 'symptoms' are also causes.

As for contraceptive and abortion access, those are very important things, but for many women other types of misogyny (Such as with employment/job opportunities/pay) are far more harmful, especially, again, for those that aren't middle class white etc. women.

Contraception and abortion access is very critical to low-income women. Why do you think this is a middle-class issue?

And if you are now saying that there are types that are more harmful than other types, isn't that what you were arguing against in the first place?

286 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:45:56pm

re: #248 Simply Sarah

Well, some were 18th century Christian fanatics. Had quite a broad range of views between them.

That they did. And many of the religious leaders were very happy about the separation. They had also seen what the mixing of government and religion could do to the religion 'out of favor' with the powers that be.

287 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:47:00pm

re: #285 Obdicut

Again: I think what are called 'symptoms' are also causes.

Contraception and abortion access is very critical to low-income women. Why do you think this is a middle-class issue?

And if you are now saying that there are types that are more harmful than other types, isn't that what you were arguing against in the first place?

What I'm trying to say is both that all kinds of misogyny impact all women and that some kinds of misogyny impact some women more than others.

288 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:47:12pm

Speaking of atheism in Texas, this isn't going over well at all with the local 'thumpers'.

Coming to a South Dallas Billboard: A Celebration of Black Atheists & Freethinkers

289 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:49:01pm

NC refuses to let children join father because he was deported to Mexico.

For nine years, Felipe Montes lived and worked in North Carolina. He married a U.S. citizen, and he and his wife have three sons. But after immigration officials deported Montes, an undocumented immigrant, in late 2010, he will likely never see his children again because officials in North Carolina are planning to terminate his parental rights.

Following his deportation, his pregnant wife Marie had trouble keeping her family afloat without Montes’ help. Two weeks after Montes was sent back to Mexico, the Allegheny County child welfare department put their children in foster care. A judge has already terminated his wife’s parental rights, so his children will be placed into adoption proceedings if Montes’ rights are terminated as well, Colorlines reports:

[N]ext week, on February 21, the county’s Department of Social Services plans to ask a judge to cease all efforts to reunify the family and put the children into adoption proceedings with foster families. Though Felipe Montes was his children’s primary caregiver before he was deported and has not been charged with neglect, the child welfare department nonetheless believes that his children, who have now been in foster care for over a year, are better off in the care of strangers than in Mexico with their father.

For Montes, this feels tantamount to kidnapping.

“I cannot find the words to tell you how important my kids are to me. I would do anything for them,” he told Colorlines.com, speaking on his cell phone in Mexico while on a break from his job at a farm. “In this world there are many injustices. At the very least, I would like them to send my kids to Mexico.”

His wife agrees that if the children cannot be with her, then they should live with their father in Mexico. “If they can’t be with me, I want them to be with him,” Marie said. “Nobody is a better father than he is.”

But Allegheny County officials did not approve Montes’ house in Mexico, where he lives with his uncle, as a home for the children. Court documents show that officials ruled it would be a bad environment because the family hauls in water and the floor is cement, but the home study that the Mexican consulate sent to the child welfare department said the home conditions are good. And because he “has not made an [sic] progress toward trying to obtain a temporary VISA or become legal to come back to the United States to visit or get his children,” they say Montes is not a fit parent.

290 leftynyc  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:49:26pm

re: #278 Kragar

Khorne and Crom count, right?

I'm afraid I'm totally unfamiliar with that reference.

291 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:49:54pm

re: #288 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

Speaking of atheism in Texas, this isn't going over well at all with the local 'thumpers'.

Coming to a South Dallas Billboard: A Celebration of Black Atheists & Freethinkers

Double the butthurt no doubt.

292 AK-47%  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:50:03pm

re: #289 Kragar

NC refuses to let children join father because he was deported to Mexico.

Jeez, even Newt Gingrich said he didn't want to see things like that happening...

293 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:50:33pm

I think those billboards are awesome. Good to see some diversity within the atheist community.

294 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:50:48pm

re: #287 Simply Sarah

What I'm trying to say is both that all kinds of misogyny impact all women and that some kinds of misogyny impact some women more than others.

Well, sure. But I'm at a loss as to how that intersects with what I was saying. And I'm still not understanding why you think contraception and abortion access isn't a critical issue for lower-income women.

295 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:51:31pm

re: #252 Obdicut

I was at a software company where a woman got made the head of a department. Making it 1 female department heads to 9 male department heads.

Instantly, people were talking about 'affirmative action'. Because, you know, when a group that makes up 50% of the population is represented at 10%, you obviously think that they must be getting an unfair advantage.

Sigh.

I got some grief from guys at an IT data center for recommending a female (black at that, and in Texas) to take over my shift supervisor position when I resigned to move back up home.

They thought that was just terrible. They had been there as long as her and knew as much about the data center operations as her, and on and on. Finally I had to tell them that she had a better disposition for and grasp of the position then they did. Left a few people there a little bitter I guess.

296 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:52:39pm

re: #294 Obdicut

Well, sure. But I'm at a loss as to how that intersects with what I was saying. And I'm still not understanding why you think contraception and abortion access isn't a critical issue for lower-income women.

They're an important issue, but other issues are also important. Issues that are less important to more affluent women and which have traditionally been more likely to be ignored or tolerated.

297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:52:47pm

re: #288 poke53265,59:poke53272,24

"When you rely on freethinking," Tatum said, "and you rely on your own individualism to make your decisions, you oftentimes make unrealistic and irrational decisions."

And the Founding Fathers wept...

The reverend laughed. "We'll tell them, 'The devil might have picked it, but the good Lord sent it.'"

Atheist, devil. Same difference.
/

298 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:55:08pm

re: #290 leftynyc

I'm afraid I'm totally unfamiliar with that reference.

STOP OPPRESSING MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

299 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:55:51pm

re: #191 lawhawk

Case in point - Wyoming legislators want the feds to reintroduce wolves to Central Park:

Lead sponsor Republican Allen Jaggi had tongue firmly in cheek when he made the resolution (see PDF here), which states:

A JOINT RESOLUTION requesting Congress to acquire the area commonly known as Central Park on Manhattan in New York City on behalf of the federal government; urging the United States Congress to declare Central Park to be a wilderness area and to prohibit any further improvement or development of Central Park unless authorized by an Act of Congress.

Jaggi sits on the Wyoming legislative committee that handles wildlife issues—they're still steamed, it seems, that the federal government has been meddling in their parks, reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone National Park in the mid-1990s. Jaggi admits the bill is modeled after Alaska's and is meant to be humorous, but adds that it is also a push back at people from other states who want to tell Wyoming how to manage its affairs.

Alaskan Representative Kyle Johansen explained to the Times why many western states were focusing their anger on NYC: “What I’m trying to accomplish is to basically make a point of the hypocrisy of—and don’t take offense—those East Coast folks who write a lot of checks to shut down Alaska, while in their own backyard, Manhattan has been turned from a pristine wild island supporting an amazing Muir web of life to having only Central Park left as a green belt. And even Central Park has been radically changed.”

300 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:57:28pm

re: #299 lawhawk

Case in point - Wyoming legislators want the feds to reintroduce wolves to Central Park:

Heh, there's never been a shortage of wolves in Central Park.

301 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:57:46pm

Torquemada Jr. is babbling again:

Santorum In Idaho: Sell Off Public Lands To The Private Sector

Somewhere out there, Teddy Roosevelt is rolling over in his grave over what the Republican Party has become.

302 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:58:19pm

re: #298 Kragar

STOP OPPRESSING MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

DON'T BELITTLE MY PEOPLE YOU FAT SON OF BITCH!!!

303 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:58:29pm

re: #297 Slumbering Behemoth

And the Founding Fathers wept...

Atheist, devil. Same difference.
/

But. But. Those billboards are dangerous! Look at the them! They're smiling! That doesn't represent the true hateful nature of atheists!

304 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:58:41pm

re: #301 Lidane

National Parks aren't in the Constitution!
/

305 dragonath  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:58:44pm

re: #256 Gus

How long is it gonna be before these guys start saying vaccines contain seekret birth control drugs? Because, really, same kind of thinking.

306 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 12:59:15pm

re: #296 Simply Sarah

They're an important issue, but other issues are also important. Issues that are less important to more affluent women and which have traditionally been more likely to be ignored or tolerated.

Sure. But please know that abortion access is very important to low-income women. In fact, it's specifically low-income women that have been targeted the much in the last GOP round of attacks; women's clinics closing, subsidies being cut, attempts to defund PP, all of these things are far harder on women with fewer resources.

307 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:00:26pm

re: #305 dragonath

How long is it gonna be before these guys start saying vaccines contain seekret birth control drugs? Because, really, same kind of thinking.

Well, they already do, after a fashion. Don't they claim that vaccines have some sort of negative effect on fertility?

308 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:00:44pm

re: #301 Lidane

Torquemada Jr. is babbling again:

Santorum In Idaho: Sell Off Public Lands To The Private Sector

Somewhere out there, Teddy Roosevelt is rolling over in his grave over what the Republican Party has become.

Yes, let's sell public lands to the private sector. I mean, they surely wouldn't do something as heartless as, say, mining the Grand Canyon for uranium. There's no way the public would let them get away with that!

309 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:00:54pm

re: #299 lawhawk

Case in point - Wyoming legislators want the feds to reintroduce wolves to Central Park:

Jaggi sits on the Wyoming legislative committee that handles wildlife issues—they're still steamed, it seems, that the federal government has been meddling in their parks, reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone National Park in the mid-1990s. Jaggi admits the bill is modeled after Alaska's and is meant to be humorous, but adds that it is also a push back at people from other states who want to tell Wyoming how to manage its affairs.

Alaskan Representative Kyle Johansen explained to the Times why many western states were focusing their anger on NYC: “What I’m trying to accomplish is to basically make a point of the hypocrisy of—and don’t take offense—those East Coast folks who write a lot of checks to shut down Alaska, while in their own backyard, Manhattan has been turned from a pristine wild island supporting an amazing Muir web of life to having only Central Park left as a green belt. And even Central Park has been radically changed.”

Oh brother. Another Republican douche bag. What a coincidence.

310 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:01:06pm

re: #306 Obdicut

Sure. But please know that abortion access is very important to low-income women. In fact, it's specifically low-income women that have been targeted the much in the last GOP round of attacks; women's clinics closing, subsidies being cut, attempts to defund PP, all of these things are far harder on women with fewer resources.

Oh, I'm very very well aware. If it wasn't for the fact that those attacks mostly hurt women of lesser means, there would be more opposition to them. Regardless, all issues need to be addressed.

311 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:01:10pm

re: #302 Slumbering Behemoth

DON'T BELITTLE MY PEOPLE YOU FAT SON OF BITCH!!!

GET OFF FAT JOKES, I JUST GOT OFF YOURS!

Wait a sec...

312 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:06:47pm

The thread, I have killed it.

313 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:07:06pm

re: #312 Kragar

The thread, I have killed it.

Pretty good aim, I have to say.

314 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:07:57pm

re: #313 thedopefishlives

Pretty good aim, I have to say.

I had Palin's film crew edit it to the ground for me.

315 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:08:03pm

re: #300 CuriousLurker

Their "resolution" calling on the Congress to stop further improvements and development in Central Park really rings hollow considering that that the park was designed by Olmsted and Vaux back in the 19th century to incorporate and protect the natural beauty of the land. In fact, the Central Park Conservancy has been doing its best to restore the park to those conditions, it isn't building skyscrapers or other buildings in the park; it's maintaining the structures that are already there.

In fact, in recent years, the park has been trying to restore parts of the park to the conditions when Olmsted and Vaux designed it.

But such distinctions fall flat on someone who has no clue about preservation of lands. NYC is actually reverting areas along its shore to prior conditions - opening up parklands at every opportunity. Other shoreline communities are doing similar actions. NYC is converting former landfills into wildlife areas and parks.

If someone were plotting to plant a Trump Tower in the middle of Central Park, I'd say that this Wyoming legislator has a point, but that's not happening.

316 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:10:45pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Peaceful protest update...
Police break up group vandalizing East Liberty


Isolated incident!
/

Drunks. I've been past that place (Shadow Lounge) and probably in it a few times as well.

317 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:10:49pm

re: #315 lawhawk

On a more serious note I'm thinking, "Wolves + Central Park + little kids = not a good idea."

318 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:11:30pm

re: #317 CuriousLurker

On a more serious note I'm thinking, "Wolves + Central Park + little kids = not a good idea."

Aw, come on, what could POSSIBLY go wrong?

319 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:12:47pm

re: #318 thedopefishlives

Aw, come on, what could POSSIBLY go wrong?

"Daddy! Look at all cute doggies!"

320 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:13:43pm

Why are so many wingnuts either juvenile morons, or obsessively hyper-literal pseudo-logicians with wildly inflated egos?

Rhetorical question.

321 Bulworth  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:14:25pm

With birth control gate, are we close to reaching peak wingnut?

322 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:14:29pm

Specialization.

323 Lidane  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:15:36pm

re: #321 Bulworth

With birth control gate, are we close to reaching peak wingnut?

LOL no. Just wait until Election Day. If Barack Obama wins a second term, these people will become even more incoherent and fail-tastic.

324 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:15:41pm

re: #321 Bulworth

With birth control gate, are we close to reaching peak wingnut?

With the election in November? Entire aspirin-free babies will be conceived and born before we reach Peak Wingnut.

325 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:17:36pm

re: #323 Lidane

LOL no. Just wait until Election Day. If Barack Obama wins a second term, these people will become even more incoherent and fail-tastic.

Wingnuts the day after Obama gets re-elected.

326 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:17:44pm

re: #321 Bulworth

With birth control gate, are we close to reaching peak wingnut?

I dunno. Wingnuts seem to have an inexhaustible supply of derp.

327 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:19:02pm

re: #321 Bulworth

With birth control gate, are we close to reaching peak wingnut?

You mean, like a climax?
//

328 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:24:04pm

re: #171 Kragar

Santorum In Idaho: Sell Off Public Lands To The Private Sector

Dear Rick,

These lands never belonged to the states or individuals (other than the Indian tribes) to give it back to. It was unorganized Federal land, then part of a US territory, and then finally Federal land in an organized US State.

I might be more likely to take you seriously if you spent some time getting your history right. But that doesn't play to your agenda, so you lie and otherwise sound like a clueless idiot.

329 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:24:30pm

re: #316 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Drunks. I've been past that place (Shadow Lounge) and probably in it a few times as well.

Yeah, they should go film on Carson street on a Friday or Saturday night. Every time I have been there some kinda fight breaks out and I have to hide in Fat Heads (and have a couple) until things settle down.

330 A Mom Anon  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:24:40pm

Sigh. Is it wrong of me to think that perhaps one should have to pass a freaking civics test before running for any public office? Shouldn't a person have to be somewhat smart and have a basic grasp of how government works before being elected(or appointed even)? It might not be a bad idea for a freaking political pundit to actually understand that stuff too. Gah!! I need to go hug my doggie or something before I get a pain behind my eye.

I will never get why the hell you'd elect people to run the government who profess to hate it. Would you hire a babysitter who hates kids?

331 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:27:02pm

re: #295 RayFerd

I got some grief from guys at an IT data center for recommending a female (black at that, and in Texas) to take over my shift supervisor position when I resigned to move back up home.

I'm going to hazard a guess that this was not in Richardson.

332 sagehen  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:27:23pm

re: #299 lawhawk

Case in point - Wyoming legislators want the feds to reintroduce wolves to Central Park:

“What I’m trying to accomplish is to basically make a point of the hypocrisy of—and don’t take offense—those East Coast folks who write a lot of checks to shut down Alaska, while in their own backyard, Manhattan has been turned from a pristine wild island supporting an amazing Muir web of life to having only Central Park left as a green belt. And even Central Park has been radically changed.”

He's out of date -- Riverside Park and Hudson River Park have replanted native species, the butterflies are back, we were getting tons of geese for awhile (until a bunch of them flew into Sully's engine; since then there's an annual goose hunt, all proceeds to be plucked and sent to the soup kitchen on lower 9th Ave.)

333 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:28:27pm

re: #331 Bishop Cornwallis Gobbletot

I'm going to hazard a guess that this was not in Richardson.

No, Houston

334 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:34:02pm

re: #330 A Mom Anon

I will never get why the hell you'd elect people to run the government who profess to hate it. Would you hire a babysitter who hates kids?

I've never gotten that either.

335 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:35:17pm

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America

This is not a political war at all. This is not a cultural war. This is a spiritual war. And the Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country - the United States of America. If you were Satan, who would you attack in this day and age. There is no one else to go after other than the United States and that has been the case now for almost two hundred years, once America's preeminence was sown by our great Founding Fathers.

He didn't have much success in the early days. Our foundation was very strong, in fact, is very strong. But over time, that great, acidic quality of time corrodes even the strongest foundations. And Satan has done so by attacking the great institutions of America, using those great vices of pride, vanity, and sensuality as the root to attack all of the strong plants that has so deeply rooted in the American tradition.

He was successful. He attacks all of us and he attacks all of our institutions. The place where he was, in my mind, the most successful and first successful was in academia. He understood pride of smart people. He attacked them at their weakest, that they were, in fact, smarter than everybody else and could come up with something new and different. Pursue new truths, deny the existence of truth, play with it because they're smart. And so academia, a long time ago, fell.

And you say "what could be the impact of academia falling?" Well, I would have the argument that the other structures that I'm going to talk about here had root of their destruction because of academia. Because what academia does is educate the elites in our society, educates the leaders in our society, particularly at the college level. And they were the first to fall.

And so what we saw this domino effect, once the colleges fell and those who were being education in our institutions, the next was the church. Now you’d say, ‘wait, the Catholic Church’? No. We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic but the Judeo-Christian ethic was a Protestant Judeo-Christian ethic, sure the Catholics had some influence, but this was a Protestant country and the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it. So they attacked mainline Protestantism, they attacked the Church, and what better way to go after smart people who also believe they’re pious to use both vanity and pride to also go after the Church.

After that, you start destroying the Church and you start destroying academia, the culture is where their next success was and I need not even go into the state of the popular culture today. Whether its sensuality of vanity of the famous in America, they are peacocks on display and they have taken their poor behavior and made it fashionable. The corruption of culture, the corruption of manners, the corruption of decency is now on display whether it’s the NBA or whether it’s a rock concert or whether it’s on a movie set.

The fourth, and this was harder, now I know you’re going to challenge me on this one, but politics and government was the next to fall. You say, ‘you would think they would be the first to fall, as fallible as we are in politics,’ but people in political life get elected by ordinary folks from lots of places all over the country where the foundations of this country are still strong. So while we may certainly have had examples, the body politic held up fairly well up until the last couple of decades, but it is falling too.

Keep this man far, far away from any real power.

336 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:35:50pm

re: #329 RayFerd

Yeah, they should go film on Carson street on a Friday or Saturday night. Every time I have been there some kinda fight breaks out and I have to hide in Fat Heads (and have a couple) until things settle down.

It's the fault of that Scotish pub up the street.
;)

337 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:38:16pm

re: #335 Kragar

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America

Keep this man far, far away from any real power.

Your frontrunner.

338 dragonath  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:38:39pm

re: #335 Kragar

I don't like to swear... but...

hoooooooly shiittttttt

339 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:39:01pm

re: #335 Kragar

Crusader Candidate.

340 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:39:58pm

re: #335 Kragar

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America

Keep this man far, far away from any real power.

He's a Greg Stillson/Nehemiah Scudder wannabe, IMO...a very dangerous type.

341 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:40:17pm

re: #335 Kragar

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America

Keep this man far, far away from any real power.

His popularity though really says a lot about this country.

342 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:41:10pm

re: #341 Gus

His popularity though really says a lot about this country.

No kidding. This guy would be a fringe candidate in most other Western countries. Here he's seen as "the true conservative alternative."

343 Amory Blaine  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:41:15pm

re: #335 Kragar

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America

Keep this man far, far away from any real power.

Santorum leads in the polls

Getting closer...

344 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:41:23pm

re: #341 Gus

His popularity though really says a lot about this country.

Not about the country, but rather about the (current) Republican party.

345 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:41:39pm

re: #3 Kragar

In his days, women would also bleed to death from illegal abortions and get date raped by the football team, then get called a whore for letting it happen.

Fuck off Foster.

I love you when you're angry.

346 jaunte  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:42:17pm

"The corruption of culture, the corruption of manners, the corruption of decency is now on display"

"I say it's time for a Comics Code Authority"

347 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:42:23pm

re: #341 Gus

His popularity though really says a lot about this country.

Yeah, it says, "we're well and truly fucked".

Excuse me while I weep...

348 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:42:35pm

re: #344 kirkspencer

Not about the country, but rather about the (current) Republican party.

Specifically yes. But when we have what? Close to 40 percent support nationwide? Which is close to the percentage of people that believe in creationism, ghosts and goblins.

349 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:43:57pm

re: #348 Gus

Specifically yes. But when we have what? Close to 40 percent support nationwide? Which is close to the percentage of people that believe in creationism, ghosts and goblins.

27%, plus or minus a couple.

350 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:44:15pm

Obama is at 50.0% while Santorum is at 42.0% according to the RCP average.

351 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:44:39pm

re: #348 Gus

You don't believe in goblins?

Image: 329571-david_bowie_803890.jpg

352 Bulworth  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:45:01pm
The place where he was, in my mind, the most successful and first successful was in academia.

The first enemy of theocracy and totalitarianism is free, critical thought.

353 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:45:07pm

re: #351 Obdicut

You don't believe in goblins?

Image: orly_bowie.jpg

No workie.

354 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:45:23pm

re: #340 talon_262

He's a Greg Stillson/Nehemiah Scudder wannabe, IMO...a very dangerous type.

I can see no negative repercussions from having a man who thinks that America is under attack by malevolent supernatural entities in charge of our nuclear arsenal.

355 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:46:04pm

re: #353 Gus

Not as good, but fixed.

Image: 329571-david_bowie_803890.jpg

356 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:46:09pm

re: #350 Gus

Obama is at 50.0% while Santorum is at 42.0% according to the RCP average.

Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism

357 Coracle  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:47:53pm

re: #350 Gus

Obama is at 50.0% while Santorum is at 42.0% according to the RCP average.

Despite the microfocus of each crisis and outrage of the moment, most people are not single-issue voters. The Republicans will have a 'God help me, GOP no matter what' contingency. And there is an overlapping, but not completely so 'Anyone but Obama' contingency, who would have put a bucket full of santorum at 30% vs. Obama before the Super PAC ads even started.

358 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:48:07pm

The other interesting thing is as the economy improves, Romney totally loses the I'm the competent businessman pitch and Republican primary voters may become more amiable to a culture warrior like Santorum.

359 steve_davis  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:48:17pm

re: #3 Kragar

In his days, women would also bleed to death from illegal abortions and get date raped by the football team, then get called a whore for letting it happen.

Fuck off Foster.

And the bleeding would be made worse by the use of the aspirin. Speaking as a Scots/Irish/Welsh/DobermanPincher with two sisters, if either were date raped, the only thing left between the perpetrator's legs would be my bloody Natchez Bowie.

360 Gus  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:49:01pm

re: #356 Gus

Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism

There you have it. Basically 4 out of 10 Americans believe in strict creationism. while 4 in 10 Americans also support Santorum. Break it down to 5ths we're looking at 2 out 5 people being stuck in some bygone era.

361 Kragar  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:49:54pm
362 Bulworth  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 1:49:56pm

I grew up fundamentalist and went to church schools until mid-college, after which I eventually went to grad school. It was about this time I started noticing the distinctive anti-academia, anti-intellectual impulse within the fundamentalist world. I would hear sermons and read articles in which academia was attacked on a variety of levels but most hilariously as being centers of "group think", where diversity was supposedly not allowed, etc.

This was quite hiliarious in my view as the only group think and absence of diversity I noticed was in church.

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:06:32pm

re: #4 SpikeDad

Do they really believe this? That back in "My Day", no men and women had sex until they were married? That no men used condoms during sex? That no unwanted pregnancies resulted from sex and that no abortions were done because it was illegal?

Did anyone on MSNBC ask any questions in return?

It's meant to be judgement-proof, since it's a 'joke'.

It also, of course, sidesteps the part they don't want to hear, which is that a hell of a lot of the people using birth control are married.

One of our swing-by visitors pulled a version of this some days ago. "Why should insurance cover, heh heh, risky behavior?"

They really are pushing this idea that adults getting it on in committed relationships don't use birth control. The US birth rate says different. Very, very different.

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:09:13pm

re: #12 zora

Santorum 2012
Because Breeders are Better

how is this a winning formula? most women in america have used some form of birth control in their lives. this, birth control is for hedonistic whores, approach will not work.

I don't know. There seems to be a real ability to split mentally between your real life and your political memes. Look at Laura Ingraham. She's been married for many years. Gave birth twice. Maybe she's just not very fertile, but I strongly suspect that she's used birth control for much of her adult life.

Yet she's willing to play this "Do they think pregnancy is a DISEASE? Giggle giggle," game.

Now, she can readily afford to buy hers at market price, besides which, there's money in it for her to talk like this but...

365 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:12:04pm

re: #42 jaunte

Watch Friess in the video. He's totally pleased with his little joke.

I wonder if June Cleaver used the aspirin technique.

Probably not. She and Ward always seemed pretty happy and relaxed.

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:15:04pm

re: #78 e_e

Alouette thinks the ad implies women preferring violent sex as a better alternative.
I think the ad implies women will tolerate violent sex.

I think the ad suggests that becoming a vegan will lead to loss of muscle control. Let's hope skinny boy isn't a physical therapist or something.

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:16:59pm

re: #80 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

I don't even know what birth control pills cost anymore. Anyone have the data?

I was paying about thirty bucks a month at Kaiser when I worked for the Diocese of Oakland. Please note, my coverage covered the prescription--if my doctor had been unable to write me one, as I suspect would have been the case if the Church had actually thought this through, I would have had to make regular appointments with another gyn, paying out of pocket.

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:19:11pm

re: #81 Look At My New Grandbaby!

The ad's stupid emphasis on violent sex completely overshadowed their bogus claim that a vegan diet is better than viagra.

And it would have been terribly easy to come up with a story line that simply emphasized 'he can go for hours'.

369 BongCrodny  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:44:53pm

re: #335 Kragar

Santorum: Satan is Systematically Destroying America

Keep this man far, far away from any real power.

Rick Santorum: Church Lady.

370 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 16, 2012 2:47:33pm

re: #362 Bulworth

I grew up fundamentalist and went to church schools until mid-college, after which I eventually went to grad school. It was about this time I started noticing the distinctive anti-academia, anti-intellectual impulse within the fundamentalist world. I would hear sermons and read articles in which academia was attacked on a variety of levels but most hilariously as being centers of "group think", where diversity was supposedly not allowed, etc.

This was quite hiliarious in my view as the only group think and absence of diversity I noticed was in church.

There is a somewhat universal tendency to believe that people in your own group affiliation all more or less agree with each other because they are thinking people who have come to their own correct conclusions, and that people in other group affiliations all more or less agree with each other because they are brainwashed groupthinkers.

371 eneri  Sat, Feb 18, 2012 10:43:33am

IMO, the best form of birth control is a pair of pliers, second to that men, keep your zippers up.


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