Hundreds of Women Stage Silent Protest Outside Virginia Capitol

Women protest the GOP’s ‘state rape’ bill
Politics • Views: 27,249

The Virginia House was scheduled to vote today on the unbelievably insane Republican bill that would make it compulsory for women seeking abortions to first be penetrated by a vaginal ultrasound probe, but after this demonstration developed they decided to postpone the vote: Silent Protest Outside, Virginia House Puts Off Ultrasound Vote.

What appears to be a crowd of several hundred people gathered today at the Virginia state capitol. Standing silently in the cold, they lined the walkway used by the legislators who have been voting on — and voting away — women’s rights in Virginia.

From their Facebook page:

The Capitol ground rules say that we cannot assemble, hold signs, chant, yell or protest. We think silence in the face of this struggle and their unconstitutional rules presents the strongest response to their assault on women. Please come out and stand up for our rights and for the rights of all women in VA to choose the best reproductive route for themselves. These people are used to signs, yelling, chanting etc. It is not new. They are not used to silently being stared at and having to look us in the eye. It gives us the power.

A new poll out today from the Christopher Newport University and the Richmond Times-Dispatch shows Virginia’s Republican majority to the right of Virginians. About 55 percent of them say they don’t like the measure that would require women seeking an abortion to first undergo a medically unnecessary transvaginal ultrasound. The Richmond paper reports the House was to vote on the bill today, but its patron chose instead to hold off for the day.

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165 comments
1 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:43:04am

Good show, Virginian women.

2 AK-47%  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:44:32am

Women who can't say no!

/

3 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:46:39am

Okay, there are men there too. But still.

I hope they continue in their success. I think the poll numbers probably had something to do with it. More important, I think, than the 55% of people opposed is that only 36% support it.

4 A Mom Anon  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:48:40am

Aside form how horrific,barbaric and just plain offensive this is,how are these sonograms supposed to be paid for? Would insurance companies cover the cost of a procedure not ordered by a doctor? I somehow doubt that. It's got to be a couple hundred dollars at least.

I'm still WTFing about all this. Do they really think there will be no backlash at all from these laws and the nasty rhetoric?

5 AK-47%  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:49:40am

re: #4 A Mom Anon

Aside form how horrific,barbaric and just plain offensive this is,how are these sonograms supposed to be paid for? Would insurance companies cover the cost of a procedure not ordered by a doctor? I somehow doubt that. It's got to be a couple hundred dollars at least.

I'm still WTFing about all this. Do they really think there will be no backlash at all from these laws and the nasty rhetoric?

and what if a doctor refuses "for religious reasons" to perform the procedure?

6 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:52:31am

Pre-abortion ultrasound: the medical evidence and why it’s important

The growing momentum among state legislators to enact ultrasound “requirements” for abortion is an interesting tactic. Currently 20 states regulate the provision of ultrasound by abortion providers. The point appears to be twofold:

• raise the cost of the procedure to reduce the number of women who can afford an abortion
• require/offer/describe a view of the fetus to dissuade/shame pregnant women into not having the procedure

It’s interesting to me that on both sides there has been very little discussion of the medical evidence. So that’s what I’m going to do.

Straight up stuff.

7 blueraven  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:55:22am

re: #4 A Mom Anon

Aside form how horrific,barbaric and just plain offensive this is,how are these sonograms supposed to be paid for? Would insurance companies cover the cost of a procedure not ordered by a doctor? I somehow doubt that. It's got to be a couple hundred dollars at least.

I'm still WTFing about all this. Do they really think there will be no backlash at all from these laws and the nasty rhetoric?

Doubtful that this procedure would be covered by insurance. I think that is part of the plan...Make abortion so costly and difficult to obtain for women, that it becomes almost non existent. Except of course for all those top income "job creators".

8 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:57:26am

re: #4 A Mom Anon

I'm still WTFing about all this. Do they really think there will be no backlash at all from these laws and the nasty rhetoric?

They don't care. It's all about appeasing the religious fanatics and wingnuts by both making abortion so expensive that only the rich can afford it and by slut-shaming every woman into keeping their baby no matter what the cost.

9 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:57:55am

Congratulations ladies. Now contact the wives of the republicans and arrange a "boycott". Cut them off. uh oh bad phrasing. //

Hmm, that is to say no sex until the bill is dead. Won't take long.

10 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:01:39am

I am glad to see they are mature enough to have a silent protest without sticking duct tape over their mouths.

11 jaunte  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:03:05am

Santorum says Obama looks down on disabled, encouraging more abortions

"One of the things that you don't know about ObamaCare in one of the mandates is they require free prenatal testing. Why? Because free prenatal testing ends up in more abortions and, therefore, less care that has to be done, because we cull the ranks of the disabled in our society. That too is part of ObamaCare — another hidden message as to what president Obama thinks of those who are less able than the elites who want to govern our country."

12 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:05:32am

re: #11 jaunte

Santorum says Obama looks down on disabled, encouraging more abortions

What Santorum says = anal leakage at its finest.

13 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:06:29am

re: #11 jaunte

Santorum says Obama looks down on disabled, encouraging more abortions

So crazy. It's unbelievable to me how abortion and the great fear of it has become so one note.

PSA's coming from DNC about women and babies saved by pre-natal care.

14 blueraven  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:07:41am

re: #11 jaunte

Santorum says Obama looks down on disabled, encouraging more abortions

There seems to be no bottom to the vile bucket of filthy slop spewing out of this man's venomous brain.

15 jaunte  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:08:17am

I wonder why the delay on voting. Who's going to change their mind and vote in favor of this absurdity?

16 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:08:35am

I'm still amazed that the GOP has decided to make issues out of birth control and abortion in an election year. They really have nothing else this year, do they?

Barack Obama really does have the dumbest enemies on the planet.

17 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:08:47am

re: #14 blueraven

There seems to be no bottom to the vile bucket of filthy slop spewing out of this man's venomous brain.

He is just an uneducated dominionist. I just don't see much of a brain.

18 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:08:55am

re: #13 2012. Birth Control is NOT a political issue.

A friend of mine was recently involved in a procedure whereby they fixed the underdeveloped lungs of the fetus while still in the womb. Crazy. Of course, the condition was diagnosed with prenatal testing, and that's why the baby was born alive.

And isn't that what Santorum supposedly wants?

19 AK-47%  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:10:49am

re: #11 jaunte

Santorum says Obama looks down on disabled, encouraging more abortions

Offering the option of contraception, pre-natal care, abortion = encouraging contraception, pre-natal care, abortion

These people are not into choice: "Freedom means the freedom to do what (I judge) is right"

20 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:11:37am

re: #10 Look At My Grandbaby!

I am glad to see they are mature enough to have a silent protest without sticking duct tape over their mouths.

No giant puppets, street theater or drum circle. Not attacking police with rocks and bottles. It's nice to see serious protesters.

21 Kragar  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:12:22am

re: #11 jaunte

Santorum says Obama looks down on disabled, encouraging more abortions

Taking care of unborn babies is a bad thing according to Santorum.

22 CarleeCork  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:13:33am

re: #7 blueraven

Doubtful that this procedure would be covered by insurance. I think that is part of the plan...Make abortion so costly and difficult to obtain for women, that it becomes almost non existent. Except of course for all those top income "job creators".

Abortions will always happen, the only difference is whether or not the women will survive.

23 mr.fusion  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:15:24am

I was just perusing HA and their headline is:

The Left’s outrageous outrage at a proposal to require ultrasounds before abortion

With the subheading:

An ultrasound is like … rape?

Ummmmmmmm...well, not quite. Forcing something inside someones body against their will isn't LIKE rape .... it IS rape

24 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:16:49am

re: #23 mr.fusion

Ummm...yes. Forcing something inside someones body against their will isn't LIKE rape ... it IS rape

Don't you know? Once a woman consents to sex, she consents to ANYTHING being shoved up her vagina at any time for any reason, even an ultrasound wand.

/Dana Loesch

25 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:18:57am

Santorum spokesperson "Obama's radical Islamic policies"

26 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:19:28am

"when the tongue slips, the truth speaks"

-kurt cobain (i think)

27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:19:56am

re: #24 Lidane

/Dana Loesch

I just just realized that this bit with treating sexuality like it's some disease you catch is eerily similar to the equally stupid belief that homosexuality is somehow contagious as well. So there's a common dynamic of assigning contagion to it and then that makes treating the group like lepers and outcasts "right" then.

28 jaunte  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:20:37am

re: #23 mr.fusion

I see they're claiming that the law doesn't specify a transvaginal ultrasound, so that makes it ok.

29 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:21:53am

re: #25 SpaceJesus

Because if there's one thing all radical Islamic people stand for it's "global warming." Why do you think Iran is so interested in developing clean nuclear power plants?

30 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:22:01am

re: #27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Exactly. These morons are still in the "sex = cooties" stage.

Maybe if they'd had some actual comprehensive sex ed when they were younger they'd know better. =P

31 leftynyc  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:22:47am

re: #25 SpaceJesus

Santorum spokesperson "Obama's radical Islamic policies"

[Video]

I can't watch videos (I'm working today) - does that have one of his supporters or one of his spokespeople? And when was it done? Thanks a bunch.

32 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:22:50am

re: #28 jaunte

I see they're claiming that the law doesn't specify a transvaginal ultrasound, so that makes it ok.

Don't think the law covers a broom handle or an M-80 firecracker, but I bet a jury of your peers would still find for a rape charge (among other charges like assault and battery).

33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:23:05am

re: #30 Lidane

Exactly. These morons are still in the "sex = cooties" stage.

Maybe if they'd had some actual comprehensive sex ed when they were younger they'd know better. =P

Like in _The Meaning of Life_?

34 Kragar  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:24:03am

Worry over Mitt Romney sparks talk of Tampa

With concerns over Romney rising after a series of gaffes and polls showing him losing to Rick Santorum in Michigan — a state in which he was born and raised — and with a protracted primary fight ahead, some Republican activists are desperately looking for alternatives. Most concede that it’s late in the game and such a scenario is highly unlikely.

But the uncertainty and volatility of the Republican contest has led to detailed talk of either a “brokered” convention or simply a “contested” one, in which the GOP nominee isn’t even close to being settled by the time Republicans convene in Tampa in August. The last time the GOP race was unsettled at convention time was in 1976.

Indiana GOP Chairman Eric Holcomb, one of Gov. Daniels’s closest advisers, revealed to POLITICO that “the whispers have become shouts, the knocks on [Daniels’s] door have become fist pounding.”

“Republicans are fretting the four dancing now can’t beat Obama in the fall — so their national talent search continues,” Holcomb said, adding that the pleas had come from “the adults” in the party.

35 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:24:46am

re: #31 leftynyc

today, and it is one of his spokespeople

37 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:24:51am

re: #31 leftynyc

I can't watch videos (I'm working today) - does that have one of his supporters or one of his spokespeople? And when was it done? Thanks a bunch.

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Rick Santorum spokesperson Alice Stewart slipped up on MSNBC Monday afternoon when talking about President Obama's environmental policies. Instead, she called them Obama's "radical Islamic policies."

38 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:25:19am

re: #28 jaunte

I see they're claiming that the law doesn't specify a transvaginal ultrasound, so that makes it ok.

It doesn't make it ok, but it does pull the teeth of the 'state sponsored rape' language.

39 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:25:21am

re: #31 leftynyc

I can't watch videos (I'm working today) - does that have one of his supporters or one of his spokespeople? And when was it done? Thanks a bunch.

Rick Santorum spokesperson Alice Stewart got tied up in knots on MSNBC a short time ago talking about President Obama's "radical environmental policies" and instead referred to his "radical Islamic policies.

40 Mocking Jay  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:25:31am

markos RT @ZandarVTS: .@markos It's INSERTION OF FREEDOM. Women will greet Republicans as liberators!

41 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:25:42am

re: #33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I'm thinking Dana needs to start smaller. Reading a few Judy Blume books should get her started on asking the right questions.

42 jaunte  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:25:53am

re: #32 RayFerd

Their point is that, even though the vaginal ultrasound is more effective at diagnosing a pregnancy, there isn't a requirement in the law to use it that method (just that the most effective method be used) so they're making a silly argument about a specific word, rather than the meaning of the law.

43 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:25:56am

re: #28 jaunte

I see they're claiming that the law doesn't specify a transvaginal ultrasound, so that makes it ok.

Once again, right wing bloggers are flat out lying. The Virginia GOP voted down an amendment that would have let doctors decide whether a trans-vaginal ultrasound was necessary. The penetration aspect of it is crucial to their slut-shaming plan.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

44 Sionainn  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:26:15am

Just wanted to pop in and thank everyone for their suggestions regarding my computer issues yesterday. I ended up nuking it and starting all over. I have added Avast and now need to reload my word processing and other work-related files. Thanks again for all your help!

45 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:26:17am

It's a misspeak, but it reveals what is really on the mind and tip of the tongue of conservatives everywhere.

46 Gus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:29:04am

Others are saying over 1,000.

Over 1,000 protest for women’s rights outside of Capitol today

Over 1,000 demonstrators assembled outside of Virginia’s Capitol this afternoon to protest several pieces of legislation currently working through the state legislature. Amid melting snow and extra police, demonstrators lined the walkways for Speak Loudly with Silence, a silent protest.

Watched a video and the capitol building was literally surrounded.

47 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:29:08am

re: #43 Charles Johnson

Once again, right wing bloggers are flat out lying. The Virginia GOP voted down an amendment that would have let doctors decide whether a trans-vaginal ultrasound was necessary. The penetration aspect of it is crucial to their slu-shaming plan.

Charles, I have to disagree from reading the bill itself, which doesn't mention a method. The letter of that law does not compel any specific ultrasound method.

I think the bill is heinous, but it does not in fact require any specific type of ultrasound.

48 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:30:36am

re: #26 SpaceJesus
re: #45 SpaceJesus

It's a misspeak, but it reveals what is really on the mind and tip of the tongue of conservatives everywhere.

"when the tongue slips, the truth speaks"

-kurt cobain (i think)

Really?

Better hope not.

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009
President Obama

49 jaunte  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:32:16am

SB484/HB462: Introduced by Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-27) and Del. Kathy J. Byron (R-22); These bills, which each passed their respective chambers are now being reviewed in a committee of the opposite chamber, incorporate two other identical bills. Both bills would require every pregnant woman to "undergo ultrasound imaging and be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion. The medical professional performing the ultrasound must obtain written certification from the woman that the opportunity was offered and whether the woman availed herself of the opportunity to see the ultrasound image or hear the fetal heartbeat." Given the early age of the fetuses, a trans-vaginal ultrasound would be required. The bill does not allow women to opt out of the ultrasound. The Senate rejected an amendment that would require a digital rectal examination and a cardiac stress test before men could be given drugs for erectile dysfunction. Gov. Bob McDonnell has said he support the legislation.
[Link: www.leesburg2day.com...]

50 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:34:39am

re: #48 Daniel Ballard

Yeah really. Conservatives all over the place think Obama is a Muslim, and many of them keep mum about it.

51 Mocking Jay  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:34:52am

re: #49 jaunte

So looking at an ultrasound is now a relevant part of a woman's medical history...

52 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:34:57am

UT/TT Poll: Santorum Crushing GOP Hopefuls in Texas

Former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania has a commanding lead among Republican presidential candidates in Texas, according to a new University of Texas/Texas Tribune poll.

Santorum would get the votes of 45 percent of the respondents if the election were held today, according to the survey. The other three candidates in the GOP race — former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas — are clustered well behind. Gingrich got 18 percent, Romney received 16 percent and Paul garnered 14 percent.

53 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:35:49am

re: #47 Coracle

Charles, I have to disagree from reading the bill itself, which doesn't mention a method. The letter of that law does not compel any specific ultrasound method.

I think the bill is heinous, but it does not in fact require any specific type of ultrasound.

How many kinds of "fetal ultrasound" are there? That sounds like an external (still not anything the law should require) would not work.

54 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:37:25am

re: #53 Daniel Ballard

How many kinds of "fetal ultrasound are there?

That there are non penetrative ultrasound options was never in question.

55 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:38:37am

I finally found what those HCN, ECN etc. projects in the Fundraising and Budget PDFs were - it's HI's newspapers. Here's their ECN newspaper for February:

[Link: heartland.org...]

The February issue of Environment & Climate News reports on Climategate 2, the release of more than 5,000 emails revealing misconduct and fraud among prominent scientists at the heart of the assertion that humans are causing a global warming crisis. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is in damage control mode.

Kinda... hypocritical?

56 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:39:07am

re: #52 Lidane

This is good to hear. We need Santorum to win for the Sanity Party to get a blowout.

Is it me, or does Santorum have a very punchable face?

57 kirkspencer  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:40:24am

re: #44 Sionainn

Just wanted to pop in and thank everyone for their suggestions regarding my computer issues yesterday. I ended up nuking it and starting all over. I have added Avast and now need to reload my word processing and other work-related files. Thanks again for all your help!

You're welcome, and hopefully that will be the last time you need to go there.

58 simoom  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:41:15am

A kind of tragic aside to the whole Sheriff Babeu story:

[Link: articles.boston.com...]

Babeu made headlines again in the Catholic priest sex abuse scandal in the early 2000s. Babeu alleged that a priest molested him in a Vermont rectory in December 1984 and January 1985.

Babeu alleged that he had previously been assaulted by a priest in Springfield. Babeu said he confided in his brother two years later, who told the bishop of the Burlington, Vt., diocese.

In 2003, the Globe reported that Babeu got a settlement in the “low five figures’’ from the Vermont diocese, his attorney said. Babeu also filed a civil suit against the two priests and the Springfield Diocese, the Globe said. He received a settlement from the Springfield Diocese.

59 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:41:16am

re: #55 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

Where's condemnation?

The Climategate 2 story caught fire in
the news media after James M. Taylor, a
senior fellow of The Heartland Institute,
which publishes Environment & Climate
News, wrote an article for Forbes.
com presenting several examples of scientific
misconduct documented by the
emails and explaining how the misdeeds
undermined IPCC’s scientific credibility.
Meteorologist Anthony Watts and other
scientists posted many of the offending
emails on their personal Web sites. The
Internet site foia2011.org pulled the Climategate
1 and Climategate 2 emails
together in a searchable, user-friendly
database.

60 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:41:43am

re: #52 Lidane

UT/TT Poll: Santorum Crushing GOP Hopefuls in Texas

I must have missed Santorum's speech in favor of maple syrup.
//

61 Mocking Jay  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:41:53am

re: #56 ProGunLiberal

This is good to hear. We need Santorum to win for the Sanity Party to get a blowout.

Is it me, or does Santorum have a very punchable face?

Let's not go there.

62 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:42:25am

re: #47 Coracle

Charles, I have to disagree from reading the bill itself, which doesn't mention a method. The letter of that law does not compel any specific ultrasound method.

I think the bill is heinous, but it does not in fact require any specific type of ultrasound.

The fact remains that they voted down an amendment that would have allowed women to opt-out of being sodomized by the state.

And in any case, even if it didn't mandate penetration, this bill is still outrageously misogynistic. This is how Republicans push the envelope and get their sick ideas accepted. Any kind of mandated ultrasound should be rejected. The government should not be allowed to force women to undergo medically unnecessary procedures for purely political purposes. It's insane.

63 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:42:49am

re: #61 I Am Jack's Medulla Oblongata

I know, but every picture I see of Santorum has a really douchey expression on it.

64 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:43:25am

Only 55% dislike this measure?

65 Gus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:43:51am

re: #59 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

Where's condemnation?

Interesting. And look what they have under commentary at that foia2011.org website:

Watts Up With That
EU Referendum
Climate Audit
Biased BBC
No Frakking Consensus
Roger Pielke Jr
Tom Nelson
Prison Planet

66 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:44:00am

OT, this is all over my twitter. Any input?

Ezra Koenig @arzE

Khader Adnan has been #HungerStrikingFor65Days. when a human being undertakes a protest this extreme, we owe it to them to listen and learn

67 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:44:12am

re: #54 Coracle

That there are non penetrative ultrasound options was never in question.

Until I had the question. Besides external on penetrative, not a legislative call. Strictly medical decision.

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:45:04am

re: #65 Gus

Interesting. And look what they have under commentary at that foia2011.org website:

Whoopsie doo! The Circle of Derp.

69 kirkspencer  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:45:47am

re: #48 Daniel Ballard

re: #45 SpaceJesus

Really?

Better hope not.

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009
President Obama

No, it's not his attempt to make the case for government-run healthcare. It's his case for why private insurance should stay within the process. Here's a slightly larger quote, same speech.

Now, the only thing that I have said is that having a public option in that menu would provide competition for insurance companies to keep them honest.
Now, I recognize, though, you make a legitimate -- you raise a legitimate concern. People say, well, how can a private company compete against the government? And my answer is that if the private insurance companies are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be self-sustaining -- meaning taxpayers aren't subsidizing it, but it has to run on charging premiums and providing good services and a good network of doctors, just like any other private insurer would do -- then I think private insurers should be able to compete. They do it all the time. (Applause.)
I mean, if you think about -- if you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? No, they are. It's the Post Office that's always having problems.

Oh, and the speech itself is here.

70 leftynyc  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:46:59am

re: #49 jaunte

SB484/HB462: Introduced by Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel (R-27) and Del. Kathy J. Byron (R-22); These bills, which each passed their respective chambers are now being reviewed in a committee of the opposite chamber, incorporate two other identical bills. Both bills would require every pregnant woman to "undergo ultrasound imaging and be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion. The medical professional performing the ultrasound must obtain written certification from the woman that the opportunity was offered and whether the woman availed herself of the opportunity to see the ultrasound image or hear the fetal heartbeat." Given the early age of the fetuses, a trans-vaginal ultrasound would be required. The bill does not allow women to opt out of the ultrasound. The Senate rejected an amendment that would require a digital rectal examination and a cardiac stress test before men could be given drugs for erectile dysfunction. Gov. Bob McDonnell has said he support the legislation.
[Link: www.leesburg2day.com...]

Why do they need to record if she looked at the image or chose to hear the heartbeat? What purpose would that serve?

71 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:47:56am

re: #62 Charles Johnson

The fact remains that they voted down an amendment that would have allowed women to opt-out of being sodomized by the state.

And in any case, even if it didn't mandate penetration, this bill is still outrageously misogynistic. This is how Republicans push the envelope and get their sick ideas accepted. Any kind of mandated ultrasound should be rejected. The government should not be allowed to force women to undergo medically unnecessary procedures for purely political purposes. It's insane.

I agree with every one of these points. Which is why the language "state sponsored rape", though a powerful soundbite, is a distraction.

72 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:48:40am

re: #70 leftynyc

Why do they need to record if she looked at the image or chose to hear the heartbeat? What purpose would that serve?

Guilt

73 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:49:10am

Can CRU scientists threaten HI?

[Link: heartland.org...]

74 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:49:28am

Well done, ladies.

75 leftynyc  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:49:45am

re: #64 HappyWarrior

Only 55% dislike this measure?

I would really love to see that breakdown by gender.

76 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:49:47am

re: #71 Coracle

I agree with every one of these points. Which is why the language "state sponsored rape", though a powerful soundbite, is a distraction.

What would you term a forced vaginal insertion of something?

77 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:49:59am

re: #72 RayFerd

Guilt

State sponsored guilt.

Too bad this doesn't apply to war, the money making prison system, foster kids.

Such selective bs.

78 leftynyc  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:51:01am

re: #66 2012. Birth Control is NOT a political issue.

OT, this is all over my twitter. Any input?

Ezra Koenig @arzE

Khader Adnan has been #HungerStrikingFor65Days. when a human being undertakes a protest this extreme, we owe it to them to listen and learn

He's a spokesman for Islamic Jihad. He's a terrorist. Couldn't care less if he dies.

79 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:53:14am

re: #54 Coracle

That there are non penetrative ultrasound options was never in question.

I understand your confusion. When Texas passed a similar law last year- to be honest it *is* the same law- I asked the same thing.

Answer:

Until an embryo hits around six weeks old, you can't even ID it with external ultrasound. Since the law requires the woman view the not-yet-human thing inside her, an internal ultrasound is the only option.

80 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:54:05am

re: #78 leftynyc

Can't upding, but thanks for the response. I guess the "no charges" thing is what is throwing this off.

81 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:56:11am

I just saw this pop up in my Twitter Feed:

I can tell you're a plebeian by your nail polish color.

That seems nasty to me. Anyone else get that feeling?

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:56:50am

re: #81 ProGunLiberal

I just saw this pop up in my Twitter Feed:

That seems nasty to me. Anyone else get that feeling?

What's the context?

83 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:59:05am

re: #82 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

That's it. Her previous Tweet was late last night, about how awesome her birthday was.

The only parts of the Tweet left off was the name and time.

84 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:59:49am

re: #76 RayFerd

What would you term a forced vaginal insertion of something?

I would call it rape. But that's not the letter of the proposed law. The proposed law is barbaric and misogynistic, but it does not mandate TVU.

85 Gus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 11:59:52am

re: #81 ProGunLiberal

I just saw this pop up in my Twitter Feed:

That seems nasty to me. Anyone else get that feeling?

Plebeian? Only dorks call other people plebeians.

86 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:00:17pm

re: #25 SpaceJesus

Santorum spokesperson "Obama's radical Islamic policies"

[Video]

Why is it that anything these loons disagree with is 'radical' and 'Islamic?'

Oh wait. Never mind. That whole Manichaean mind set. Good and evil with nothing else in between. Like Lord of The Rings without the Ringwraiths.

87 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:01:02pm

re: #85 Gus

Also, isn't it mis-spelled?

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:01:26pm

Zhirinovsky's election ad that caused controversy:

89 Gus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:01:31pm

re: #87 ProGunLiberal

Also, isn't it mis-spelled?

Nope.

90 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:02:37pm

re: #79 austin_blue

I understand your confusion. When Texas passed a similar law last year- to be honest it *is* the same law- I asked the same thing.

Answer:

Until an embryo hits around six weeks old, you can't even ID it with external ultrasound. Since the law requires the woman view the not-yet-human thing inside her, an internal ultrasound is the only option.

OK, does that not open the door then to a doctor using a conventional external ultrasound to declare the "fetal age" as "Under six weeks"? That looks to me to fulfill the letter requirement of the law - and set up a court challenge when a socon screams "but no!"

91 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:03:43pm

k, day off, must go spend $. I'm an American and all that. See you in a bit.

92 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:04:18pm

re: #89 Gus

Ah, my bad then.

I just saw this in relation to a story about a group that does Anti-Muslim Police Training in the US. This paragraph for me is the kicker.

Guandolo himself is a former FBI agent who had to resign after it was revealed that he had sexual relationships with agents and a key government informant — and then created a list of his conquests. He bounced back as a speaker about the threat of Islamic terrorism, and he and SEG have run a number of these kinds of seminars in the past few years.

Holy fuck, this guy might be creeper than Geller.

94 blueraven  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:06:37pm

re: #48 Daniel Ballard

re: #45 SpaceJesus

Really?

Better hope not.

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009
President Obama

Actually he was explaining how a public option wouldn't snuff out private insurance as was the claim from the republicans...using the PO and FedEx/UPS as examples.

"My answer is that if the private insurance companies are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be self-sustaining -- meaning taxpayers aren't subsidizing it, but it has to run on charging premiums and providing good services and a good network of doctors, just like any other private insurer would do -- then I think private insurers should be able to compete. They do it all the time."

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

This was when a public option was still on the table. As you know, there is no public option and no government run healthcare.

95 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:07:17pm

And why would the Turkish Flag on my wall stay attached to the sticky-tack!?!?!

The Norwegian and Scottish Flags are doing just fine, but the Turkish flag, not so much. (Decorating Apartment with Flags).

One of my apartment mates previously mistook the Norwegian Flag for the Nazi Flag. I had a big sad.

96 Kragar  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:10:37pm

New avatar, so I've got that going for me today.

I hate annual refresher training.

97 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:11:30pm

re: #95 ProGunLiberal

And why would the Turkish Flag on my wall stay attached to the sticky-tack!?!?!

The Norwegian and Scottish Flags are doing just fine, but the Turkish flag, not so much. (Decorating Apartment with Flags).

One of my apartment mates previously mistook the Norwegian Flag for the Nazi Flag. I had a big sad.

That's because they're apparently dumb as a post, because the two flags look nothing alike, other than they're mostly red.

99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:16:46pm

re: #95 ProGunLiberal

One of my apartment mates previously mistook the Norwegian Flag for the Nazi Flag. I had a big sad.

Useless fact of the day: The Norwegian flag contains the flags of six other countries.

100 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:17:00pm

re: #97 talon_262

I think they are thinking of the War Ensign. It, unfortunately, used the Nordic Cross. Which has really, really sullied the reputation of the Nordic Cross.

I'm very, very proud of being Part Norwegian. The ferocious resistance they gave to the Nazis during the invasion, the resistance they did while occupied, the way they have acted since WWII, and the way Norway acted after the Terror Attack last year.

101 Kragar  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:17:31pm

Santorum: Democrats are "anti-science," not me

In his remarks Monday, Santorum went beyond his usual discussion of the importance of increasing domestic energy production to deliver a blistering attack on environmental activists. He said global warming claims are based on "phony studies," and that climate change science is little more than "political science."

His views are not "anti-science" as Democrats claim, Santorum said. "When it comes to the management of the Earth, they are the anti-science ones. We are the ones who stand for science, and technology, and using the resources we have to be able to make sure that we have a quality of life in this country and (that we) maintain a good and stable environment," he said to applause, and cited local ordinances to reduce coal dust pollution in Pittsburgh during the heyday of coal mining.

102 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:17:49pm

re: #97 talon_262

That's because they're apparently dumb as a post, because the two flags look nothing alike, other than they're mostly red.

He may have, at a glance, confused it with this.

103 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:17:52pm
104 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:17:55pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

That is awesome that somebody noticed that. I didn't realize that until just now.

105 allegro  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:20:18pm

re: #90 Coracle

OK, does that not open the door then to a doctor using a conventional external ultrasound to declare the "fetal age" as "Under six weeks"? That looks to me to fulfill the letter requirement of the law - and set up a court challenge when a socon screams "but no!"

See, here's the thing by using your arguments... with this obscene law a woman can choose not to be internally raped by waiting until after her 10th week of pregnancy to get an abortion. Not a good plan. OR the doctor can do an external ultrasound without success if it's too early to see that tiny zygote so she can say goodbye to the baby she's "murdering," which is the whole purpose of the unnecessary test. This requires the women's rape by an internal ultrasound costing for 2 tests that she must pay for costing several hundred dollars each in addition to the costs for the abortion.

Yes, it is rape. It is non-consensual, unnecessary medical testing physically performed on a woman's body for the sole purpose of humiliating her, costing her hundreds of dollars more unnecessarily, costing her time away from work and family, etc. It is rape by any measure of the term.

106 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:20:21pm

re: #92 ProGunLiberal

That bolded part skeeves me out the more I think about it.

107 allegro  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:21:26pm

re: #98 Charles Johnson

LGF - getting more irrelevant all the time.

Featured today at:

Mediaite: Conservatives Defend Virginia's Occupy Vagina Law on Basis That All Penetrations Are Created Equal | Mediaite

Wonkette: Breitbart Shill Wonders: How Is an Ultrasound Different Than Sex?

The clearly have problems with that whole consent thing.

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:22:58pm

re: #98 Charles Johnson

LGF - getting more irrelevant all the time.

Featured today at:

Mediaite: Conservatives Defend Virginia's Occupy Vagina Law on Basis That All Penetrations Are Created Equal | Mediaite

Wonkette: Breitbart Shill Wonders: How Is an Ultrasound Different Than Sex?

Let's just hope NYT doesn't link to you. Because in such an event you will simply vanish! //

109 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:25:30pm

Also featured at Rachel Maddow's MSNBC blog: The Maddow Blog - Right Rallies to Defend Va. Ultrasound Bill

110 Coracle  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:26:57pm

re: #105 allegro

I've no disagreement that mandating even an external ultrasound for someone who doesn't want one lies in the spectrum of sexual coercion and assault.

But doesn't the doctor get to define the success criteria of an ultrasound? If the determination of "fetal age" is the object - and that is the letter of the law, a doctor could make a case that "under six weeks" is sufficient, and the image from an external ultrasound would be ample proof of that.

Such laws should not exist. However, if they are forced through, these are among the ways to fight them.

111 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:27:57pm
112 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:28:16pm

re: #107 allegro

The clearly have problems with that whole consent thing.

They also seem to assume that all women have very close relationships with their doctors.
/

113 Kragar  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:28:42pm

re: #111 Lidane

Obviously, she hasn't been doing it right.

114 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:29:01pm

re: #110 Coracle

I've no disagreement that mandating even an external ultrasound for someone who doesn't want one lies in the spectrum of sexual coercion and assault.

But doesn't the doctor get to define the success criteria of an ultrasound? If the determination of "fetal age" is the object - and that is the letter of the law, a doctor could make a case that "under six weeks" is sufficient, and the image from an external ultrasound would be ample proof of that.

Such laws should not exist. However, if they are forced through, these are among the ways to fight them.

It depends on whether your doctor comes from the "liberal" or "conservative" quota.
/

115 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:29:50pm

re: #111 Lidane

Ooo, ooo, I know!

For most of these Theocrats, it's the only way they will get into a woman.

....

Sorry, I've been holding back that one for a while.

116 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:32:29pm

re: #79 austin_blue

I understand your confusion. When Texas passed a similar law last year- to be honest it *is* the same law- I asked the same thing.

Answer:

Until an embryo hits around six weeks old, you can't even ID it with external ultrasound. Since the law requires the woman view the not-yet-human thing inside her, an internal ultrasound is the only option.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had a hunch, but no time or links at that moment.

117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:33:05pm

Ah. Um. Dana@BJ:

Here’s the thing: no one is forcing women in Virginia to get abortions. Don’t get an abortion and you don’t have to worry about any sort of mandated ultrasound.

118 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:33:56pm

re: #113 Kragar

Obviously, she hasn't been doing it right.

Or at all. Because who'd want to?

119 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:35:16pm
Here’s the thing: no one is forcing women in Virginia to get abortions. Don’t get an abortion and you don’t have to worry about any sort of mandated ultrasound.

*sigh*

Some people are just too goddamn stupid to be reasoned with. She's one of them.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:35:46pm

re: #119 Lidane

*sigh*

Some people are just too goddamn stupid to be reasoned with. She's one of them.

Stupid and vile. Win/win!

121 Alexzander  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:36:01pm

re: #111 Lidane

[Video]

Wait - we can embed twitter posts now? Cool.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:36:37pm

Whaddya wanna bet some woman hater has made an "at least that shut them up" joke?

123 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:36:39pm

re: #121 PEANUT BUTTER

Wait - we can embed twitter posts now? Cool.

You work entirely too much!! ///

124 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:36:41pm

re: #117 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

In response, I got this to say:

She can go and play "Hide and Go Fuck Yourself"

125 Kragar  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:36:51pm

re: #117 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

Ah. Um. Dana@BJ:

Wow. Just wow.

126 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:37:13pm

re: #123 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

How do you embed them anyway?

127 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:37:59pm

re: #117 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

Ah. Um. Dana@BJ:

By that logic, the Catholic Church isn't being forced to operate hospitals and universities, so if it doesn't want to allow its female employees to get birth control through their insurance, they can just shut down those down.

128 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:38:16pm

re: #126 ProGunLiberal

How do you embed them anyway?

There's a help number. Talk to "Peggy".
;)

129 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:38:52pm

re: #126 ProGunLiberal

How do you embed them anyway?

You open the individual Tweet, click on Details, then click on the Embed This Tweet link for the code.

130 Digital Display  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:38:57pm

re: #119 Lidane

*sigh*

Some people are just too goddamn stupid to be reasoned with. She's one of them.

I agree...Just to damn stupid for my tastes....
Now..If a woman went to her doctor and he said we might have a issue biologically with this..Let's do a ultrasound to make sure we avoid any complications here..I could see that.. This is only between a doctor and his patient and the GOP be damned

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:39:03pm

re: #126 ProGunLiberal

How do you embed them anyway?

In the twit options - "Open". In the expanded tweet seek "Details". Then - "Embed this Tweet".

132 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:39:12pm

re: #128 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Seriously, I don't know how.

133 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:39:26pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

By that logic, the Catholic Church isn't being forced to operate hospitals and universities, so if it doesn't want to allow its female employees to get birth control through their insurance, they can just shut down those down.

Haven't they already complained that they will be forced to do that due to the moral pressures of resisting just that?

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:39:47pm

re: #128 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

There's a help number. Talk to "Peggy".
;)

Peggy is on vacation. Please call in 2 or 3 weeks!

135 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:40:20pm

Looks like someone is getting jealous of Japan constantly occupying the top of the "WTF? Why?!?!" charts... care for a stem-cell hamburger?

First Test-Tube Hamburger Ready This Fall

The world's first "test-tube" meat, a hamburger made from a cow's stem cells, will be produced this fall, Dutch scientist Mark Post told a major science conference on Sunday.

Post's aim is to invent an efficient way to produce skeletal muscle tissue in a laboratory that exactly mimics meat, and eventually replace the entire meat-animal industry.

I think I'll have the chicken, thank you.

"Animal farming is by far the biggest ongoing global catastrophe," Patrick Brown of the Stanford University School of Medicine told reporters.

"More to the point, it's incredibly ready to topple ... it's inefficient technology that hasn't changed fundamentally for millennia," he said.

I'm not a farmer/rancher, but I'm willing to bet that's bullshit. A millennia?

Both scientists said no companies in the existing meat industry have expressed interest.

Really?

136 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:40:24pm

re: #133 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Haven't they already complained that they will be forced to do that due to the moral pressures of resisting just that?

That's their latest tactic to whip up "outrage" in the face of polls running against them, threatening the jobs of the very women who are telling them to join the rest of us in the 21st century.

137 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:40:51pm

re: #134 Representative of Bank of Nikolai

Peggy is on vacation. Please call in 2 or 3 weeks!

It's like that here at work. No use in calling Brazil about anything until Thursday at the earliest.

138 Gus  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:41:06pm

Does this fit with non-profit and FEC laws?

139 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:41:40pm

re: #125 Kragar

Wow. Just wow.

By her idiot logic, no one should ever drive, that way they don't have to worry about mandated speed limit laws. And they should never fly, so they don't have to worry about TSA screenings. And they should never, ever own a gun because then they wouldn't have to worry about gun laws.

She's a fucking moron.

140 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:42:14pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth

Eh, Japan will be on top of the scientific crazy by next week.

Florida is always on the top of the crazy pile. It's like the was US shaken, and all the Special Snowflakes slid down.

141 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:42:23pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth

Looks like someone is getting jealous of Japan constantly occupying the top of the "WTF? Why?!?!" charts... care for a stem-cell hamburger?

First Test-Tube Hamburger Ready This Fall

I think I'll have the chicken, thank you.

I'm not a farmer/rancher, but I'm willing to bet that's bullshit. A millennia?

TOTALLY BULLSHIT.

142 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:43:13pm

re: #139 Lidane

By her idiot logic, no one should ever drive, that way they don't have to worry about mandated speed limit laws. And they should never fly, so they don't have to worry about TSA screenings. And they should never, ever own a gun because then they wouldn't have to worry about gun laws.

She's a fucking moron.

Seriously, since the whole contraception bit started, the running theme has been "taking federal money doesn't mean the feds can violate your rights!" Funny how narrow that argument is, huh?

143 sagehen  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:43:51pm

re: #10 Look At My Grandbaby!

I am glad to see they are mature enough to have a silent protest without sticking duct tape over their mouths.

(pssst: it was the students of Occupy Davis who proved us how powerful this type of protest is)

144 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:43:54pm

re: #141 Look At My Grandbaby!

EWWWWWW!!!!!!!

I DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW THAT!!! THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!!!!

145 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:44:29pm

re: #141 Look At My Grandbaby!

TOTALLY BULLSHIT.

I await the PETA announcement that they will step forward enmasse' to be testers of this new product.

146 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:45:12pm

Heh:

147 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:45:24pm

re: #145 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Well, they already spew shit, so all it is intake of what they already expel.

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:45:41pm

re: #143 sagehen

(pssst: it was the students of Occupy Davis who proved us how powerful this type of protest is)

The hippies from my mother's generation would be surprised to hear that.

149 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:55:12pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth

"It tastes like... despair."
-Better Off Ted

150 Charleston Chew  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:00:05pm

Newest conservative wacko meme: Movie Trailers Of Historical Places!

Hot on the heels of Kirk Camerons Monumental (emphasis on the mental),

comes Sarah Palin's Chords Of Memory.

Having rejected reality completely, their only hope, apparently, is to live out the rest of their lives in the fantasy world of movie montages.

151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:02:02pm
152 sagehen  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:02:43pm

slacktivist had an interesting article this weekend about
evangelicals and abortion:

The 'biblical view' that's younger than the happy meal

In 1979, McDonald’s introduced the Happy Meal.

Sometime after that, it was decided that the Bible teaches that human life begins at conception.

Ask any American evangelical, today, what the Bible says about abortion and they will insist that this is what it says. (Many don’t actually believe this, but they know it is the only answer that won’t get them in trouble.) They’ll be a little fuzzy on where, exactly, the Bible says this, but they’ll insist that it does.

That’s new. If you had asked American evangelicals that same question the year I was born you would not have gotten the same answer.

That year, Christianity Today — edited by Harold Lindsell, champion of “inerrancy” and author of The Battle for the Bible — published a special issue devoted to the topics of contraception and abortion. That issue included many articles that today would get their authors, editors — probably even their readers — fired from almost any evangelical institution.

The whole thing is worth a read.

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:03:11pm

re: #149 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"It tastes like... despair."
-Better Off Ted

Hah! That's what I was thinking of, but I couldn't recall the name of the show, thanks. I'm still pissed they took it off the air.

154 Lidane  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:03:21pm

*sigh*

155 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:04:55pm

re: #154 Lidane

I have only this to say:

Challenge Accepted

156 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:05:15pm

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[Video]

The new Minister Of Food

Image: os-media-green-giant.jpg

157 Charleston Chew  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:08:14pm

Cameron's features D.C. and Palin's features Illinois. It must annoy them that all these historical places are in solidly "blue" territory.

Kinda like how the Tea Party hates to think about how they draw their historical inspiration from Dem stronghold MA.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:08:55pm

re: #150 Charleston Chew

Having rejected reality completely, their only hope, apparently, is to live out the rest of their lives in the fantasy world of movie montages.

Dear Gravel! They must be stopped! If they beat Chad Worthington in the K12 downhill challenge they just might have a shot at the white house.

159 allegro  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:09:44pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth

Looks like someone is getting jealous of Japan constantly occupying the top of the "WTF? Why?!?!" charts... care for a stem-cell hamburger?

First Test-Tube Hamburger Ready This Fall

I think I'll have the chicken, thank you.

I'm not a farmer/rancher, but I'm willing to bet that's bullshit. A millennia?

Really?

This is actually very cool research. From it can come exciting progress in growing whole new organs, for example, to solve the shortage of donor organs. Muscle meat is pretty simple (relatively speaking) and if priced right, I would be happy to buy it for my dogs. It would certainly be better than the garbage sold as dog food and less expensive than the chicken, etc. I cook for them now. It would save a lot of critters from slaughter.

As far as ranching... yes there have been a lot of changes in the past millenia and they have not been for the good at all. Factory farming is extremely damaging ecologically; inhumane to a ghastly degree; and it contributes directly to deadly antibiotic resistant pathogens such as MSRA. There is a movement among many smaller ranchers towards sustainable, humane husbandry that solve most of these problems.

160 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:12:29pm

re: #159 allegro

This is actually very cool research.

Oh, I don't disagree. It just doesn't sound very appetizing.

161 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:13:27pm

re: #160 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, I don't disagree. It just doesn't sound very appetizing.

You don't want to see what goes on in (many) restaurant kitchens!

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:15:59pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

You don't want to see what goes on in (many) restaurant kitchens!

Why do you think I'm so big on home cooked meals?

Because I have seen what goes on in restaurant kitchens. :shudders:

163 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 2:05:02pm

re: #100 ProGunLiberal

I think they are thinking of the War Ensign. It, unfortunately, used the Nordic Cross. Which has really, really sullied the reputation of the Nordic Cross.

I'm very, very proud of being Part Norwegian. The ferocious resistance they gave to the Nazis during the invasion, the resistance they did while occupied, the way they have acted since WWII, and the way Norway acted after the Terror Attack last year.

Still, hard to mistake the Norwegian flag for the Nazi war ensign, seeing as the latter had a big swastika on it:
Image: 800px-War_Ensign_of_Germany_1938-1945.svg.png
as opposed to the Norwegian flag:
Image: 800px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png
But I digress...

164 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 2:06:53pm
165 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 20, 2012 2:19:04pm

[deleted due to being posted in wrong thread. Multiple open tabs fail :( ]


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