Idaho Republicans Trying to Pass Bill to Allow Employers to Deny Contraception Coverage

The Republican Party’s war on the 21st Century
Wingnuts • Views: 28,930

Male Republican religious fanatics in Idaho are now trying to pass a measure that would allow any employer to deny women contraception coverage, and once again seeking to equate contraception with abortion: Idaho Bill Targets Contraceptive Rules.

Republican caveman Carlos BilbaoBOISE — A measure to allow Idaho employers to ignore new federal rules requiring them to cover contraception in their insurance plans survived efforts to kill it Monday.

Instead, supportive Republican lawmakers on the House Health and Welfare Committee agreed to let sponsor Rep. Carlos Bilbao, R-Emmett, make changes to allay their fears it could keep patients who use prescription birth control for medical reasons besides contraception from receiving necessary treatment.

“I support the motives of the sponsor, but the potential unintended consequences might be something they want to address,” said Rep. Ken Roberts, R-Donnelly.

There’s no date set yet for Bilbao’s changes to be considered.

Bilbao, a devout Catholic, aims to challenge a recent Obama administration decision seeking to guarantee reproductive health coverage for employees of religion-affiliated institutions. That includes contraception, sterilization and abortion drugs. …

Idaho isn’t alone in considering similar legislation, with Missouri and Arizona also mulling changes.

But Idaho’s measure appeared headed for the scrapheap Monday, after Republican Rep. Fred Wood, a doctor, proposed killing it outright, on several grounds.

Wood, R-Burley, argued it imposes the religious beliefs of employers on their workers; would likely result in a costly, losing legal fight against the federal government; and is so broadly written it could be used to erect costly barriers to prevent women from receiving appropriate treatment for debilitating ocular migraines and endometriosis, among other conditions.

Oral birth control pills are “used in the treatment of a lot of disease processes that have absolutely nothing to do with contraception whatsoever,” said Wood. “They are expensive. Even at Walmart prices, they probably run about $600 per year.” …

The committee room was packed to overflowing for Monday’s hearing, with most people on hand to oppose Bilbao’s bill.

However, proponents including the group Right to Life of Idaho, an anti-abortion group, lauded his measure as a way of protecting the rights of employers who object to certain drugs that interrupt the natural process of a fertilized egg.

Those include so-called “morning-after pills” that women can take following intercourse to block a pregnancy, said Jason Herring, Right to Life of Idaho’s president. The health care overhaul’s rule requiring basic insurance to cover such drugs without a co-pay amounts to a government mandate guaranteeing abortion coverage, he said.

This is the year the Republican Party went full-on Looney Tunes.

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134 comments
1 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:20:46am

So they're making this really, really clear this is just them being assholes about people who decide to have sex.

This makes no sense on any grounds, from the legal to the moral. If you want fewer abortions, you should want birth control. If you want to save money, you should want birth control.

The only angle this makes any sense from is if you are opposed to people having sex for reasons other than procreation.

2 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:22:08am

There are apparently Republicans who won't sign on to the full blown American Taliban route, though. Wood actually seems to be putting health concerns at least fractionally over ideology.

3 garhighway  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:22:38am

re: #1 Obdicut

So they're making this really, really clear this is just them being assholes about people who decide to have sex.

This makes no sense on any grounds, from the legal to the moral. If you want fewer abortions, you should want birth control. If you want to save money, you should want birth control.

The only angle this makes any sense from is if you are opposed to people having sex for reasons other than procreation.

The only angle this makes sense from is the "pandering to one's base" angle. It isn't about science or medicine or sex or health. It's about votes and contributions. And preventing a challange from one's right.

4 erik_t  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:22:42am

Article VI, Clause 2: how the fuck does it work?

5 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:22:45am

re: #1 Obdicut

So they're making this really, really clear this is just them being assholes about people who decide to have sex.

This makes no sense on any grounds, from the legal to the moral. If you want fewer abortions, you should want birth control. If you want to save money, you should want birth control.

The only angle this makes any sense from is if you are opposed to people having sex for reasons other than procreation.

Do you have a problem with christo-birtho-mania?

6 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:23:38am

I hate to link to Fox, but they have an absolutely NASTY story up on the Heartland leaks.

The comments are already heating up (pun intended).

7 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:23:38am

New GOP stance: Life begins at erection.

8 Tumulus11  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:24:04am
'Erin Capener, a Boise resident, told the committee she takes birth control pills to treat polycystic ovary syndrome, whose symptoms include cysts and fertility problems.

'Birth control gives you the ability to not only counter those side effects, but also ensure your fertility later on,' Capener said.'

. Ovarian cysts and female infertility are not ordained by God..

9 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:26:45am

Extremist Republicans being extreme. All they need now is to retake the White House and they can have access to WMDs. Then they can also ban alcohol and porn. I wonder who that reminds me of.

10 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:27:35am

“My judgment was blinded by my frustration with the ongoing efforts — often anonymous, well-funded, and coordinated — to attack climate science and scientists and prevent this debate … nevertheless I deeply regret my own actions in this case."

Prevent debate?? Are you serious?? The ones that want to prevent debate are the so-called "experts" that are convinced that they have all the answers and want to see humans back in the stone age if not eradicated. Statements like, "No rational person would dispute..." or "Anyone with an education could see..." do not add to discussion, they are simply methods to cut off debate. Funny how the ones that are most shrill on the climate debate are exposed as indulging in subtrafuge to either bolster their position or run down others. No wonder they are not believed.

This is a conservative saying this...about Liberals.

I think my brain just broke.

11 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:28:03am

re: #7 Kragar

New GOP stance: Life begins at erection.

Must have as bumper sticker.

12 ProdSlash  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:28:04am

I think they've been looney tunes for some time. They've just been losing the ability to conceal it.

13 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:29:18am
14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:30:15am

Can a state legislature nullify a federal law?

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:30:34am

re: #12 ProdSlash

I think they've been looney tunes for some time. They've just been losing the ability to conceal it.

They had the political skill to conceal their ideological extremism. But those gloves have come off.

They tried to advance the argument that this is like forcing a kosher deli to offer ham sandwiches.

More like forcing any restaurant to comply with health and safety codes. Or would restaurant owners be exempted from them if they could advance religious grounds?

16 jaunte  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:31:04am
...supportive Republican lawmakers on the House Health and Welfare Committee agreed to let sponsor Rep. Carlos Bilbao, R-Emmett, make changes to allay their fears it could keep patients who use prescription birth control for medical reasons besides contraception from receiving necessary treatment.

This exception seems similar to the one the Republicans are trying to provide in the Virginia 'personhood' legislation for fertilized eggs killed in the process of in-vitro fertilization.
[Link: www.addictinginfo.org...]

17 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:31:32am

Of course. We are talking Idaho here. Might as well had been part of the original Confederacy.

18 garhighway  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:31:55am

re: #13 Son You got a panty on your head.

Yeah: Ross likes the solutions that haven't worked ever, over the ones that do work. That is just about Ross's speed.

19 Bulworth  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:32:40am
'Erin Capener, a Boise resident, told the committee she takes birth control pills to treat polycystic ovary syndrome, whose symptoms include cysts and fertility problems.

'Birth control gives you the ability to not only counter those side effects, but also ensure your fertility later on,' Capener said.'

OK, well, as long as you can prove, PROVE, you don't need the dirty pills for unauthorized sexytime, we'll maybe let you have them.

20 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:32:47am

re: #14 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Can a state legislature nullify a federal law?

Yes, if their coastal artillery can range the Yankee fort in the harbor.

21 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:32:57am

re: #18 garhighway

Yeah: Ross likes the solutions that haven't worked ever, over the ones that do work. That is just about Ross's speed.

Screw Douthat. Not that I would.

22 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:33:06am

Militias. Anti-government types. White supremacists. Aryan groups.

23 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:33:33am

re: #13 Son You got a panty on your head.

Somewhat on topic.

The ‘Safe, Legal, Rare’ Illusion

Oh G-D it's Rot Asshat.

24 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:34:15am

re: #21 Klaatu barada nikto

Screw Douthat. Not that I would.

Doughypantloadhat

25 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:36:06am

re: #4 erik_t

There's exclusive jurisdiction with federal primacy, concurrent jurisdiction, and exclusive jurisdiction at state level (looking at preemption in this case). It depends on the issues involved and the standards that are applied in each instance.

26 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:36:25am

C'mon guys, I don't find his arguments convincing, but the name-calling is counterproductive.

27 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:40:44am

re: #26 Coracle

C'mon guys, I don't find his arguments convincing, but the name-calling is counterproductive.

Sometimes, "Eat a bag of dicks" is the most appropriate response possible.

28 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:41:11am

re: #26 Coracle

C'mon guys, I don't find his arguments convincing, but the name-calling is counterproductive.

Merciless, unrelenting ridicule is exactly what the whole sorry lot of them deserve.

29 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:42:16am

OT, Awesome tweet I saw earlier:

Newt Gingrich says Obama won't defend U.S. from terrorists. Osama bin Laden could not be reached for comment.

30 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:42:26am

re: #27 Klaatu barada nikto

re: #28 Interesting Times

No matter how strongly I disagree with them, I can't agree this response helps matters at all.

31 nines09  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:42:49am

I used to vote for what I considered the best possible candidate. I am now left with no other choice but to think that any vote for any GOP/TP candidate anywhere is a vote for people like him and Rick and so many other twisted and bought souls. They have ceased being a political party or a viable alternative. Dear GOP/TP. No. Period.

32 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:42:50am
33 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:42:53am

re: #26 Coracle

C'mon guys, I don't find his arguments convincing, but the name-calling is counterproductive.

Well then I'm out of material. These folks want to make laws based on some imaginary man-made monster in the sky I can't think of what else to say.

34 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:42:56am

re: #29 dragonfire1981

Awesome tweet I saw earlier:

[Link: twitter.com...]

ha!

35 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:44:02am

re: #27 Klaatu barada nikto

Sometimes, "Eat a bag of dicks" is the most appropriate response possible.

Idaho Republicans and their mouth organ symphony in D minor.

36 jaunte  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:44:23am

Why Patriarchal Men Are Utterly Petrified of Birth Control -- And Why We'll Still Be Fighting About it 100 Years From Now
Conservative bishops and Congressmen are fighting a rear-guard action against one of the most revolutionary changes in human history.

But perhaps most critically for us right now: mass-produced, affordable, reliable contraception has shredded the ages-old social contracts between men and women, and is forcing us all (willing or not) into wholesale re-negotiations on a raft of new ones.

And, frankly, while some men have embraced this new order— perhaps seeing in it the potential to open up some interesting new choices for them, too — a global majority is increasingly confused, enraged, and terrified by it. They never wanted to be at this table in the first place, and they’re furious to even find themselves being forced to have this conversation at all.

It was never meant to happen. It never should have happened. And they’re doing their damndest to put a stop to it all, right now, and make it go away.

37 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:44:40am

re: #33 Gus

Well then I'm out of material. These folks want to make laws based on some imaginary man-made monster in the sky I can't think of what else to say.

That right there is an order of magnitude better than name-calling.

38 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:45:54am

re: #36 jaunte

Why Patriarchal Men Are Utterly Petrified of Birth Control -- And Why We'll Still Be Fighting About it 100 Years From Now
Conservative bishops and Congressmen are fighting a rear-guard action against one of the most revolutionary changes in human history.

I read that a couple of days ago and it's brilliant. Has it been paged here? If not it should be.

39 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:46:01am

re: #28 Interesting Times

Merciless, unrelenting ridicule is exactly what the whole sorry lot of them deserve.

Yep! Treating this bollocks as a reasonable debating point out of a desire to appear 'reasonable and balanced' just plays into their overton window games.

Screw that.

40 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:46:12am

Santorum: 'The Left is really about the Death of Reason'

Santorum: The Ninth Circuit this week ruled that there is no rational basis, no rational basis for anyone to believe that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, there is no rational basis. Do you understand what that means? That means you are completely irrational if you think that marriage should be between, you have no reason, this is what they said, the only reason you could possibly have to believe marriage should only be between men and women is because you are a bigot and you are a hater, that’s what they said, read the case, and by the way they’re not the first ones to have said it. So again, where is the tolerance? Where’s the tolerance that says if you have a different point of view you can be rational, no, they can’t allow you because if you’re rational then they have to deal with you so they discard you, they just say ‘well it’s beyond the realm of reason, you’re obviously just haters and we’re not even going to talk to you.’ This is the way the left operates; they won’t sit and reason, they can’t listen to all of the reasons marriage has been between a man and a woman for centuries and why it has an intrinsic good to society, they dismiss those arguments as purely puff to hide your bigotry, that’s what they believe. They won’t reason. The left is really about the death of reason. They always say it’s about reason but it’s not, it’s about the death of reason.

41 mr.fusion  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:46:45am

re: #1 Obdicut

The only angle this makes any sense from is if you are opposed to people women having sex for reasons other than procreation.

FIFY
Unless vasectomy's are a part of this legislation as well

42 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:47:04am

re: #29 dragonfire1981

OT, Awesome tweet I saw earlier:

Newt Gingrich says Obama won't defend U.S. from terrorists. Osama bin Laden could not be reached for comment.

Sure he could. He said, "glub, glub, glub..."

43 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:47:13am

re: #40 Kragar

Santorum: 'The Left is really about the Death of Reason'

Getting an irony reading of 11 on that one.

44 jaunte  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:47:18am

re: #38 Klaatu barada nikto

I don't know; today is the first I've seen it.

45 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:48:07am

re: #40 Kragar

The Sacrament of Marriage, as practiced and recognized by the Cathoolic Church, may remain a sacrament involving only a man and a woman.

The institution of marriage is not identical with the sacrament of marriage.

That is the logical leap that Rick and all the other dickheads out there cannot get their brains wrapped around.

46 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:48:13am

Can't decide whether to fact-check Saturday Night Live or The Onion.

//

47 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:48:19am

re: #42 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Sure he could. He said, "glub, glub, glub..."

Bin Laden sleeps with the fishies.

48 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:48:33am

re: #39 Jimmah

Yep! Treating thisbollocks as a reasonable debating point out of a desire to appear 'reasonable and balanced' just plays into their overton window games.

Not actually what I was saying. Demolish the arguments - the weak ones and the illogical ones are easy, the sophisticated ones (the few there might be) take rigor. But 'stupid-head' name-calling turns this into a primary school playground, not a forum for solutions or progress.

49 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:49:30am

re: #43 Gus

Getting an irony reading of 11 on that one.

He's about 1 speech away from using the Chewbacca defense.

50 jaunte  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:49:35am

re: #45 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I think it's just an excuse to keep a class of people in a 'less than' position.

51 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:50:40am

re: #48 Coracle

Not actually what I was saying. Demolish the arguments - the weak ones and the illogical ones are easy, the sophisticated ones (the few there might be) take rigor. But 'stupid-head' name-calling turns this into a primary school playground, not a forum for solutions or progress.

Some days I just don't want to use polysyllables big words.

52 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:50:44am

re: #48 Coracle

Not actually what I was saying. Demolish the arguments - the weak ones and the illogical ones are easy, the sophisticated ones (the few there might be) take rigor. But 'stupid-head' name-calling turns this into a primary school playground, not a forum for solutions or progress.

Ok Cap'n!

53 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:50:58am

re: #50 jaunte

I think it's just an excuse to keep a class of people in a 'less than' position.

No, honestly, when it comes to the marriage thing, I think it's just because Christians can't separate the religious meaning of marriage from the civil/legal meaning of marriage. When it comes to contraceptives and abortions, though, you're absolutely on point.

54 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:51:52am

I'll tell you what's indicating the possibility of the "death of reason." Rick Santorum getting around 42 percent in national polls sounds like the death of reason to me. That this blowhard idiot (yep another insult) is getting so much national attention indicates the death of reason. What these Republicans are doing in Idaho, Virginia and all across the land is an indication of the death of reason.

55 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:53:33am

Personally, I rather enjoty the combination of rational demolition and outright piss-taking. It feels good to me!

Ps That's why I love ice-ski so much
(well, part of it) :-)

56 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:53:35am

re: #54 Gus

And the dumbest part of all: He's getting most of that momentum not because voters like what he's about but because they are terrified of Mormons and Black men in the White House.

57 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:54:34am

re: #52 Jimmah

Yeah yeah. I don't need to be a boy scout. I just think "dumbocrat" and "rethuglican" and all their cousins move us farther from solutions rather than closer.

58 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:54:43am

Socrates is calling but I don't feel like playing bingo right now.

59 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:55:20am

re: #14 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Can a state legislature nullify a federal law?

I believe Andrew Jackson emphatically said "No".

60 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:55:24am

re: #57 Coracle

Yeah yeah. I don't need to be a boy scout. I just think "dumbocrat" and "rethuglican" and all their cousins move us farther from solutions rather than closer.

Yet but they reflect reaity. I wish it weren't true but it is.

61 Lidane  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:56:29am
'Erin Capener, a Boise resident, told the committee she takes birth control pills to treat polycystic ovary syndrome, whose symptoms include cysts and fertility problems.

'Birth control gives you the ability to not only counter those side effects, but also ensure your fertility later on,' Capener said.'

This is why I take birth control pills. Without birth control, my hormones would be completely out of control and I'd be right back where I was before, with irregular periods and a whole host of physical issues.

I can bring my body back under control and still have the option of kids before I hit menopause. It's win-win. And it's not as cut and dried as these ignorant assholes think it is.

62 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:56:31am

re: #57 Coracle

Yeah yeah. I don't need to be a boy scout. I just think "dumbocrat" and "rethuglican" and all their cousins move us farther from solutions rather than closer.

I never called them Rethuglicans. I only said that pretty soon they'll be able to start wearing their boots on the outside of their pants. Tall black riding boots with pantaloons!

//

63 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:56:57am

re: #60 Jimmah

Yet they reflct reaity. I wish it weren't true but it is.

So, how do you better change that reality? Upping the rhetoric, or moving beyond it?

64 garhighway  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:57:27am

re: #43 Gus

Getting an irony reading of 11 on that one.

Your meter must be a better model than mine: mine broke upon exposure to Frothy.

65 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:57:33am

And a riding crop. Monocle.

66 Lidane  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:57:44am

re: #43 Gus

Getting an irony reading of 11 on that one.

At least your irony meter still works. Mine broke after Santorum called liberals anti-science.

67 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:58:26am

re: #65 Gus

And a riding crop. Monocle.

Ha! How you doing Gus? Many monocles have been popped on this website. :)

68 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:58:33am

High waist belt. Ribbons. Lots of medals.

69 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:59:08am

re: #67 Klaatu barada nikto

Ha! How you doing Gus? Many monocles have been popped on this website. :)

Hello {ice}. How are things on your side of the pond?

70 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 10:59:27am

re: #67 Klaatu barada nikto

Ha! How you doing Gus? Many monocles have been popped on this website. :)

Bomb Iran! I was supposed to do laundry but decided to be a bum. The usual. Yourself?

71 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:00:15am

Earth tone shirts.

//

72 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:00:52am

re: #69 thedopefishlives

Hello {ice}. How are things on your side of the pond?

nifty, fishie! How are you and the fishspawn? Best to you all.

73 Lidane  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:01:05am

Heh:

74 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:01:06am
75 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:01:12am

re: #53 thedopefishlives

No, honestly, when it comes to the marriage thing, I think it's just because Christians can't separate the religious meaning of marriage from the civil/legal meaning of marriage. When it comes to contraceptives and abortions, though, you're absolutely on point.

I awaiting a state legislature to get its act together and completely separate the two. As in removing the term "marriage" from all their statutes and replacing it with some other term for these contracts. Just pull the rug out from under that particular argument and make the opponents come clear on the basis of their objections once it no longer has any confusing ties to the religious term.

76 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:01:33am

re: #72 Klaatu barada nikto

nifty, fishie! How are you and the fishspawn? Best to you all.

We're all doing well. Just got cleaned out after a nifty snowstorm last night. Fishspawn turns 1 here in a month and a half, we're excited.

77 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:02:05am

Shorter Ross Douthat:

The fact that abortion rates are lower in states where abortion access is severely limited by government intrusion, medically unnecessary roadblocks, paternalistic overreach, clinic harassment and religiously motivated doctor assassinations is a clear indication of their superior methods for making abortion safe, legal, and rare.

78 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:02:41am

re: #75 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I awaiting a state legislature to get its act together and completely separate the two. As in removing the term "marriage" from all their statutes and replacing it with some other term for these contracts. Just pull the rug out from under that particular argument and make the opponents come clear on the basis of their objections once it no longer has any confusing ties to the religious term.

I would be totally okay with that. I also know several people personally who would absolutely flip their lids if that happened.

79 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:03:01am

re: #76 thedopefishlives

We're all doing well. Just got cleaned out after a nifty snowstorm last night. Fishspawn turns 1 here in a month and a half, we're excited.

That's wonderful!

80 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:04:28am

re: #40 Kragar

Santorum: 'The Left is really about the Death of Reason'

He talks about and wants to implement into our laws writings that were put down by people that believe in an invisible, all knowing, all powerful, sky fairy that speaks through burning bushes and crazy mothers that drown their children because they are destined for hell.

Yeah, real reason

81 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:04:28am

re: #78 thedopefishlives

I would be totally okay with that. I also know several people personally who would absolutely flip their lids if that happened.

I know a bunch of people who would be very for it if it happened as well. They see it as a useful "separation of church and state" item since it would clear out an overlapping term that is hidden behind at times.

82 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:04:39am

Fearmongering neocon and the Zionist lobby!Obama tconferenceo speak at AIPAC

83 The Gender Ambiguity of a Flea  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:04:54am

re: #33 Gus

Well then I'm out of material. These folks want to make laws based on some imaginary man-made monster in the sky I can't think of what else to say.

84 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:05:00am

re: #81 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I know a bunch of people who would be very for it if it happened as well. They see it as a useful "separation of church and state" item since it would clear out an overlapping term that is hidden behind at times.

Actually, I meant I knew people who would be very against it. I guess the term I used wasn't very clear.

85 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:05:39am

re: #63 Coracle

So, how do you better change that reality? Upping the rhetoric, or moving beyond it?

Like I suggested earlier it's possible to provide rational demolition of tis bullshit as well as having a good laugh at these clowns.

86 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:05:47am

BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

87 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:05:53am

Anybody else getting a bunch of strange cut and paste errors lately?

88 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:05:53am

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

[I]s there such thing as a sincere liberal Christian, which says that we basically take this document and re-write it ourselves? Is that really Christian? That’s a bigger question for me. And the answer is, no, it’s not. I don’t think there is such a thing. To take what is plainly written and say that I don’t agree with that, therefore, I don’t have to pay attention to it, means you’re not what you say you are. You’re a liberal something, but you’re not a Christian. That’s sort of how I look at it.

When you go so far afield of that and take what is a salvation story and turn it into a liberation theology story, which is done in the Catholic world as well as in the evangelical world, you have abandoned Christendom, in my opinion. And you don’t have a right to claim it.

89 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:06:19am

re: #88 Kragar

Whoops. I guess I don't exist anymore. *poof*

90 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:06:44am

re: #83 The Ghost of a Flea

[Video]

You know, that bit is almost too accurate, isn't it? Makes you think Boorman had a crystal ball or something.

91 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:07:05am

re: #88 Kragar

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

That does it. I'm going to put myself in a medically induced coma and schedule a wake-up call for after the election.

//

92 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:07:07am

re: #86 Gus

BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

93 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:07:36am

re: #84 thedopefishlives

Actually, I meant I knew people who would be very against it. I guess the term I used wasn't very clear.

Oh I understood. I was pointing out that such a move would bring folk out on both sides of the issue that have been relatively silent up to now.

95 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:09:15am

re: #88 Kragar

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

CINOs! I guess that makes them film fans. Worship of the almighty trinity of Celluoid, DVD, and the holy BluRay. Opposers of the evil Betamax that has been thrown out to lurk in the depths.

96 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:09:17am

re: #88 Kragar

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

My devout Christian friend from New York City strongly disagrees with the above sentiment.

Apparently, the wingnuts have convinced themselves there's an 11th commandment that says: "Thou Shalt be a Republican."

97 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:09:33am

re: #94 Kragar

Franklin Graham: Obama May Secretly Be A Muslim, Santorum And Gingrich Are Definitely Christian, Not Sure About Romney

Yeah. Romney's life definitely shows a solid belief in Cthulu. I can't understand why more people can't see it.

98 dragonfire1981  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:09:54am

I just thought of the coolest thing ever: An election in which religion was hardly mentioned or focused on.

99 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:10:13am

re: #88 Kragar

You know, Jesus's requirements for being a Christian aren't nearly as strict as Santorum's. But, Rick Santorum clearly speaks for God, so Jesus must be wrong.

100 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:10:20am

re: #98 dragonfire1981

I just thought of the coolest thing ever: An election in which religion was hardly mentioned or focused on.

Imagine all the people...

101 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:10:34am

It's spreading like a disease. Outbreak. We have ourselves a wingnut pandemic on our hands. --->

102 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:10:56am

re: #99 thedopefishlives

You know, Jesus's requirements for being a Christian aren't nearly as strict as Santorum's. But, Rick Santorum clearly speaks for God, so Jesus must be wrong.

Heh. Jesus had no requirements for being a Christian. He was Jewish.

103 kirkspencer  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:11:32am

re: #62 Gus

I never called them Rethuglicans. I only said that pretty soon they'll be able to start wearing their boots on the outside of their pants. Tall black riding boots with pantaloons!

//

sigh. I usually wear my boots outside my pants. It protects the cuffs, you see, when I'm digging or walking through fields or riding my motorcycle.

I understand your intent, here, but it's conflict with reality lost my support as well.

104 Lidane  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:11:45am

re: #88 Kragar

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

Awesome. Immediately alienate millions of voters in your quest to become POTUS. Way to go, Torquemada Jr.

105 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:11:53am

re: #101 Gus

It's spreading like a disease. Outbreak. We have ourselves a wingnut pandemic on our hands. --->

That's okay, the inoculation is easy enough. Knowledge. That's all you need. Wingnuts fear it and they certainly don't have it.

106 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:12:19am

re: #102 Coracle

Heh. Jesus had no requirements for being a Christian. He was Jewish.

Oh, hush. You get the point.

107 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:12:49am

re: #103 kirkspencer

sigh. I usually wear my boots outside my pants. It protects the cuffs, you see, when I'm digging or walking through fields or riding my motorcycle.

I understand your intent, here, but it's conflict with reality lost my support as well.

Sounds like time to send Gus a decent pair of Wellies.

108 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:13:47am

re: #106 thedopefishlives

Oh, hush. You get the point.

Oh, I do. Santorum doesn't.

109 BongCrodny  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:14:15am

re: #10 dragonfire1981

“My judgment was blinded by my frustration with the ongoing efforts — often anonymous, well-funded, and coordinated — to attack climate science and scientists and prevent this debate … nevertheless I deeply regret my own actions in this case."

Prevent debate?? Are you serious?? The ones that want to prevent debate are the so-called "experts" that are convinced that they have all the answers and want to see humans back in the stone age if not eradicated. Statements like, "No rational person would dispute..." or "Anyone with an education could see..." do not add to discussion, they are simply methods to cut off debate. Funny how the ones that are most shrill on the climate debate are exposed as indulging in subtrafuge to either bolster their position or run down others. No wonder they are not believed.

This is a conservative saying this...about Liberals.

I think my brain just broke.

"Anyone with an education could see that subtrafuge isn't even a fucking word."

110 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:14:17am

re: #108 Coracle

Oh, I do. Santorum doesn't.

And that, in a nutshell, sums up the whole problem.

111 Gus  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:14:47am

re: #107 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Sounds like time to send Gus a decent pair of Wellies.

No. Those were my Godwin boots.

//

112 kirkspencer  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:15:16am

re: #88 Kragar

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

Not new.

Look, for a few decades now evangelicals have been preaching that Christianity is the underdog, that it's a minority religion. In reality, Christianity is the world's largest religion. The resolution of those two, one I first heard almost 40 years ago, is that not all "Christians" are Christians. Some are, as others have labeled them, CINOs (and doomed to hell for their heretical beliefs).

nevermind Mark 9.

113 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:15:35am

re: #86 Gus

BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

re: #97 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Yeah. Romney's life definitely shows a solid belief in Cthulu. I can't understand why more people can't see it.

Careful now.

114 BongCrodny  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:16:26am

re: #104 Lidane

Awesome. Immediately alienate millions of voters in your quest to become POTUS. Way to go, Torquemada Jr.

As much as I like your "Torquemada in a sweater vest" description, I may have found a better one.

Bill in Maine at Daily Kos described Santorum as "Wally Cleaver meets Father Coughlin."

115 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:17:51am

re: #113 Jimmah

re: #97 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Careful now.

Sometimes the snark gets the best of me.

Forgive me.

Or don't.

Your choice.

116 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:21:39am

re: #115 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Sometimes the snark gets the best of me.

Forgive me.

Or don't.

Your choice.

The clue is in the upding :-)

117 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:36:14am

re: #63 Coracle

So, how do you better change that reality? Upping the rhetoric, or moving beyond it?

Go talk to them. See if you can change their minds. But remember, they don't think, they just DO (as they're told). Give reason a shot with the unreasonable. Give reality a shot with those that want to create their own rather than live within the reality nature provides. Good luck.

As for myself, I will stick to just calling them mindless fuckwits and moving on.

118 leftynyc  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:40:03am

re: #37 Coracle

That right there is an order of magnitude better than name-calling.

What do you politely call a group of people who are systematically trying to take away control of my own body? What nice polite name would you like me to call these motherfuckers so as not to offend you?

119 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:49:07am

re: #118 leftynyc

What do you politely call a group of people who are systematically trying to take away control of my own body? What nice polite name would you like me to call these motherfuckers so as not to offend you?

I'm not offended. I just don't think it helps. It doesn't inform your allies (of which I am one). It doesn't convince or intimidate your opponents. Name-calling by either side only serves to inflame both sides. If you think I'm not sensitive to the emotions and impacts this kind of oppressive legislation causes, please think again.

120 leftynyc  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:53:13am

re: #119 Coracle

I'm not offended. I just don't think it helps. It doesn't inform your allies (of which I am one). It doesn't convince or intimidate your opponents. Name-calling by either side only serves to inflame both sides. If you think I'm not sensitive to the emotions and impacts this kind of oppressive legislation causes, please think again.

Being nice, quiet, ladylike and polite has never gotten women anywhere. Do you not see that? And I sincerely couldn't care less who I offend. With laws like these, republicans aren't my opposition anymore, they have become my enemy.

121 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 11:58:08am

re: #98 dragonfire1981

I just thought of the coolest thing ever: An election in which religion was hardly mentioned or focused on.

That is how the founding fathers envisioned it.

122 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:02:40pm

re: #120 leftynyc

Being nice, quiet, ladylike and polite has never gotten women anywhere. Do you not see that? And I sincerely couldn't care less who I offend. With laws like these, republicans aren't my opposition anymore, they have become my enemy.

I don't disagree with you on any of these points. I'm not advocating for quiet. I'm not advocating for politeness or lady-like behavior. I'm a huge fan of caustic wit and sarcasm. I'm a fan of offending your opponent with belligerent facts and strong opinions, even strong language in support of those facts. But calling your enemy an idiot, or shithead, or motherfucker etc. does nothing to help. It's ad hominem.

123 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:03:37pm

re: #122 Coracle

While I largely agree, it is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is to say "HIs argument is bad, because he's a shithead".

Saying 'His argument is bad, and he's a shithead for making that argument' is not at all an ad hominem.

124 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:12:05pm

re: #123 Obdicut

While I largely agree, it is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is to say "HIs argument is bad, because he's a shithead".

Saying 'His argument is bad, and he's a shithead for making that argument' is not at all an ad hominem.

All right, I give. The name-calling part still serves only to inflame both sides, and invites your opponent to continue tit-for-tat name-calling instead of addressing a challenge of facts.

125 Obdicut  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:14:10pm

re: #124 Coracle

I agree that name-calling on its own does nothing. But if you make a good, clear argument about why your opponent is wrong and then call him a shithead for making such an evil-ass argument, I think that's very human, and understandable.

But you've gotta make the argument.

126 Kragar  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:16:31pm

re: #125 Obdicut

I agree that name-calling on its own does nothing. But if you make a good, clear argument about why your opponent is wrong and then call him a shithead for making such an evil-ass argument, I think that's very human, and understandable.

But you've gotta make the argument.

The GOP has been skipping the argument for the last 4 years at least.

127 Coracle  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:18:23pm

re: #126 Kragar

The GOP has been skipping the argument for the last 4 years at least.

Which is one of the things that makes the opposition to them better, but only as long as we refuse to stoop to that level.

128 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 12:59:10pm

re: #88 Kragar

Santorum says flat out there are no Liberal Christians

So Sayeth yet another man who clearly worships and follows the writings of Paul while utterly ignoring the Gospels of Jesus himself. One would think that calling yourself Christian would in some way be reserved to those who follow Christ, apparently Mr. Santorum believes just the opposite.

129 compound_Idaho  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 2:22:53pm

Given my nic, I felt compelled to comment on this thread. News reports state that the bill was kept alive. True enough. It is also true that the maneuver used is a popular technique to make bills disappear without voting them down. The article states that there is no scheduled date for the bill to be revisited. My guess is that that chairman of the committee, in this case a chairwoman, will not find the time to bring it back up. We will see.

re: #17 Gus

I do not belong to a militia, nor am I anti-government. I am not a white supremacists. I do not belong to any aryan groups, nor do I personally know anyone involved in any of the above.

130 Tigger2005  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 2:57:13pm

Republican caveman? Sounds redundant.

131 labman57  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 2:58:32pm

Traditiona­l family values according to sanctimoni­ous, Bible-beat­ing, chest-thum­ping conservati­ve pundits and politician­s: unplanned pregnancie­s by unwed teenaged girls.

Of course, the irony is that many women take birth control pills as a means to regulate hormonal imbalances­, not for preventing pregnancy per se. Should an employer who is a Jehovah's Witness be allowed to deny health coverage for blood transfusio­ns and organ transplant­s?”

132 Tigger2005  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 2:58:54pm

re: #128 ausador

So Sayeth yet another man who clearly worships and follows the writings of Paul while utterly ignoring the Gospels of Jesus himself.

Even Paul signed on to the Love gospel. Santorum is more a Leviticus follower.

133 Decatur Deb  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 3:02:45pm

re: #130 Tigger2005

Republican caveman? Sounds redundant.

AHEM. The cave dudes had it going:

Image: masdazilphallus.jpg

Phallus from Mas d'Azil.

Phallus
Carved ivory
Cat 359
Origin : Mas-d’Azil cave, Ariège
Photo: © photo - Loïc Hamon, Musée des Antiquités nationales, Saint-Germain-en-Laye.

Photo Source: [Link: www.culture.gouv.fr...]

134 Bubblehead II  Tue, Feb 21, 2012 4:40:24pm

Evening Lizards. Should have paged this when it first came up. But just couldn't believe it would have any legs.

Please feel free to contact these people and let them know just how the real World out side of Idaho feels about this. It may or may not do any good. But any Negative press is this case, is good news.

While you are at it, you may even enjoy poking fun at this ******* at this E-Mail address. Let him know just how out of touch he really is.

In the event this piece of crap actually makes it out of committee, I hope Gov. "BUTCH* Otter vetoes it.

BTW, If you do send an E-Mail. Be sure to include a link to this page. Just so these Idiots people can understand, that they are actually being watched.

Signed.

A Shamed Idaho resident


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