Rick Santorum: Obama's College Plan Is a Conspiracy to Persecute Christians

Rick Santorum: Obama’s College Plan Is a Conspiracy to Persecute Christians

On an atavism binge

WingnutsFebruary 2012 • Views: 35,052

Christopher Halloran / Shutterstock

Like many religious right wing fanatics, Rick Santorum sees conspiracies everywhere. He can turn absolutely anything into a secret plot to persecute Christians, especially if it’s endorsed by President Obama.

The latest example: President Obama advocates for getting more young Americans into college — Rick Santorum says it’s a scheme to indoctrinate them into a “secular world view,” and that colleges are harming America.

Rick Santorum and the entire Republican Party are on a giant atavism binge, with no signs of pulling back from the brink.

DALLAS, Texas – Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum said Thursday that President Obama wants more young adults to go to college so they can undergo “indoctrination” to a secular world view.

In an hour-long interview with conservative television host Glenn Beck, Santorum also defended his record on abortion and his vote in favor of President George W. Bush’s No Child Left Behind education law.

On the president’s efforts to boost college attendance, Santorum said, “I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely … The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country.”

He claimed that “62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it,” but declined to cite a source for the figure. And he floated the idea of requiring that universities that receive public funds have “intellectual diversity” on campus.

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94 comments

mr.fusion Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:48:11am

For a muslim he sure is secular

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:50:23am

re: #1 mr.fusion

For a muslim he sure is secular

Secular Islamist conspiracy. Duh.

RanchTooth Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:50:47am

Thank you, Charles, for adding the word "atavism" to my vocabulary.

zora Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:51:22am

book learnin' is a tool of satan.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:52:58am

By 'indoctrination', does he mean 'teaching science', or 'teaching history', or what?

RurouniKenshin Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:53:03am

‎'He claimed that “62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it,” but declined to cite a source for the figure.'

Obviously a made up statistic, but if it was true that sounds like the most ringing endorsement of a college education I've ever heard.

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:54:43am

Your GOP frontrunner ladies and gentleman. Not an obscure candidate struggling to stay afloat but a frontrunner.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:54:45am

re: #6 RurouniKenshin

‎'He claimed that “62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it,” but declined to cite a source for the figure.'

Obviously a made up statistic, but if it was true that sounds like the most ringing endorsement of a college education I've ever heard.

I can believe it's true for the anti-science religions, or any religion that depends on ignorance.

Charles Johnson Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:57:21am

Yes, Rick Santorum actually did say that college education is harming America.

makeitstop Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:58:53am

re: #5 Obdicut

By 'indoctrination', does he mean 'teaching science', or 'teaching history', or what?

I think he means 'raising one's level of intelligence above that of your average Fox News viewer.'

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:59:41am

I'm bemused by the fact he's rambling against public education and indoctrination when he himself has a poli sci degree from Penn State. And enough about this colleges are indoctrinating kids crap. I've seen right wing nuts claim this about universities for years. I never had anything close to what they're talking about but then again these are the same people who lie repeatedly about the reality of American schools.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:00:46am

I think I found his source:

[Link: www.northwestu.edu...]

After three or four years at a secular college or university, 52 percent no longer claim to be born again or have stopped attending church. Students from more conservative religious backgrounds lose their faith at an even higher rate, up to 67 percent.

[Link: www.christianconsulting.net...]

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:02:26am

re: #12 Obdicut

I think I found his source:

[Link: www.northwestu.edu...]

[Link: www.christianconsulting.net...]

I hate to sound crude but is that really such a bad thing? Contrary to what Santorum believes, you don't need to be religious to be a good person and a productive member of society. It's not a bad thing that secular education results in a secular worldview.

Bulworth Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:04:08am

He claimed that “62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it,”

Maybe the problem is the parents' faith is poorly indoctrinated, I mean poorly explained and passed on, to the kids.

ReamWorks SKG Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:04:42am

And he floated the idea of requiring that universities that receive public funds have “intellectual diversity” on campus.

Ok! Let's start with Bob Jones and Oral Roberts Universities!

Charles Johnson Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:05:02am

re: #12 Obdicut

I think I found his source:

[Link: www.northwestu.edu...]

[Link: www.christianconsulting.net...]

That could be his source; but any reports from organizations called "Christian Consulting" are pretty much guaranteed to be bogus.

Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:05:38am

I think that it is partially because generally a "my faith is pure, always right and you will burn in hell" attitude won't survive most 4-year colleges. And you do wonder how much of it is the sons and daughters getting clear of the constant supervision and basically running away and never going back.

Seeing the secular light so to speak.

Charles Johnson Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:06:23am

By "intellectual diversity," Santorum means "Christian indoctrination." Theocrat is theocratic.

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:06:25am

And honestly your faith must not be that strong to begin with if you're losing it over hearing things like species adapt to their surroundings and share a common ancestor. The other thing is that Santorum and his allies would have no problem forcing kids and young people to share their religious views.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:09:15am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

I hate to sound crude but is that really such a bad thing? Contrary to what Santorum believes, you don't need to be religious to be a good person and a productive member of society. It's not a bad thing that secular education results in a secular worldview.

Well, the study is a huge dissertation and I can't pick it apart. But my initial instinct is that Santorum is equating a loss of religious activity (actively praying, attending church, etc.) with a loss of faith, and the 64% figure includes people who simply change faiths. I can't quite tell yet.

I mean, obviously, atheism isn't at a 64% rate among college graduates.

And this study says the exact opposite:

[Link: www.utexas.edu...]

College graduates are more likely to maintain their religious beliefs and practices than those who never attend college, new research at The University of Texas at Austin has found.

The findings are detailed in a study titled "Losing My Religion" in the June issue of the journal Social Forces.

Researchers found four-year college students and college graduates are the least likely to curb church attendance, to say religion is less important in their lives, or to completely disassociate from religion. Young adults who do not pursue a college degree are the most likely to abandon their faith.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:09:46am

I wonder if 'losing your faith commitment' means 'joining a church group Rick Santorum doesn't like'.

Bulworth Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:09:55am

Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum said Thursday that President Obama wants more young adults to go to college so they can undergo “indoctrination” to a secular world view.

So, "secular" is a good thing in Muslim countries, and a bad thing in the U.S.? /

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:11:35am

re: #20 Obdicut

Well, the study is a huge dissertation and I can't pick it apart. But my initial instinct is that Santorum is equating a loss of religious activity (actively praying, attending church, etc.) with a loss of faith, and the 64% figure includes people who simply change faiths. I can't quite tell yet.

I mean, obviously, atheism isn't at a 64% rate among college graduates.

And this study says the exact opposite:

[Link: www.utexas.edu...]

That's what I was thinking too. These evangelical students could simply be switching from evangelical Christianity to mainline Protestantism, Catholicism, or even more horrid in Rick's eyes something like Buddhism.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:12:30am

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if 'losing your faith commitment' means 'joining a church group Rick Santorum doesn't like'.

That what it seems to mean. That and not going to church as much.

NJDhockeyfan Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:14:14am

re: #24 Obdicut

That what it seems to mean. That and not going to church as much.

I don't go to church at all. Have I lost my faith commitment?

lawhawk Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:14:24am

Colleges and universities provide a multitude of courses in the sciences, which is the enemy of all things creationist. Learning to question belief systems is inherent in the university system - as is educating oneself about all manner of liberal arts and sciences. It's no wonder that Santorum thinks this scary.

It's no surprise that Santorum thinks that colleges and universities are all about the persecution of Christians even though the Pope remarked that evolution can coexist with faith. He can't reconcile that particular fact. Instead, he thinks that expanding opportunities for a college education is a bad thing.

Rather rich coming from a guy who went to Penn State as an undergrad (and later went to University of Pittsburgh for an MBA). Guess it was good for him to get that education, but bad for anyone else to do so? And to do so at subsidized state institutions no less.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:15:24am

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

I don't go to church at all. Have I lost my faith commitment?

According to Santorum, I think so.

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:15:34am

re: #26 lawhawk

Colleges and universities provide a multitude of courses in the sciences, which is the enemy of all things creationist. Learning to question belief systems is inherent in the university system - as is educating oneself about all manner of liberal arts and sciences. It's no wonder that Santorum thinks this scary.

It's no surprise that Santorum thinks that colleges and universities are all about the persecution of Christians even though the Pope remarked that evolution can coexist with faith. He can't reconcile that particular fact. Instead, he thinks that expanding opportunities for a college education is a bad thing.

Rather rich coming from a guy who went to Penn State as an undergrad (and later went to University of Pittsburgh for an MBA). Guess it was good for him to get that education, but bad for anyone else to do so? And to do so at subsidized state institutions no less.

It's the typical fuck you, I got mine mentality that many right wing asses like Santorum have.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:15:43am

re: #24 Obdicut

That what it seems to mean. That and not going to church as much.

Seems to me that might easily be a temporary dip.

When you're in high school, you go to church regularly because your mom says so, or because you're in the choir, or because you see all your friends at Sunday school.

In college, you want to sleep in, and you party a lot, and your church attendence drops.

As a young adult with a job, and ultimately a family, you go back to it, because you want to take your kids to Sunday school, or you want something spiritual at the end of the work week.

That's a pattern in both the Catholic and Jewish communities, I would not be shocked to learn that it's common among Protestants as well.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:16:31am

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

I don't go to church at all. Have I lost my faith commitment?

Santorum says yes. I say, how would I know?

My husband's grandfather is famous in the family for declining his wife's offers to take him on her church-hopping rounds by declaring that you can be a Christian at home.

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:16:48am

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

Seems to me that might easily be a temporary dip.

When you're in high school, you go to church regularly because your mom says so, or because you're in the choir, or because you see all your friends at Sunday school.

In college, you want to sleep in, and you party a lot, and your church attendence drops.

As a young adult with a job, and ultimately a family, you go back to it, because you want to take your kids to Sunday school, or you want something spiritual at the end of the work week.

That's a pattern in both the Catholic and Jewish communities, I would not be shocked to learn that it's common among Protestants as well.

This is what I was thinking too.

Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:17:14am

re: #20 Obdicut

Well, the study is a huge dissertation and I can't pick it apart. But my initial instinct is that Santorum is equating a loss of religious activity (actively praying, attending church, etc.) with a loss of faith, and the 64% figure includes people who simply change faiths. I can't quite tell yet.

I mean, obviously, atheism isn't at a 64% rate among college graduates.

And this study says the exact opposite:

[Link: www.utexas.edu...]

A friend of mine went from Orthodox Jewish (high school) to full-on atheist (college), and then married and went back to being Orthodox Jewish to raise his kids (but less strict in a number of ways than his parents were.)

So I think there's a distancing due to rebellion and being given the opportunity to seek options. Then quite possibly a movement back towards the habitual and comfortable, often leavened by a large dose of tolerance from the exposure to other viewpoints and opinions along with some exploration of those options.

NJDhockeyfan Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:19:11am

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

Santorum says yes. I say, how would I know?

My husband's grandfather is famous in the family for declining his wife's offers to take him on her church-hopping rounds by declaring that you can be a Christian at home.

I don't think God gives a shit whether you go to a church or not. As long as you believe you are OK.

nines09 Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:19:51am

Facts never interfere with Ricks views. Truth doesn't either.

Coracle Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:19:56am

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

I don't think God gives a shit whether you go to a church or not. As long as you believe you are OK.

That way lies Satan, my friend. Repent.

Interesting Times Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:20:35am

Speaking of putting a stop to indoctrination:

Sign our petition: Tell @HeartlandInst to end its climate denial curriculum ow.ly/9g4IX #CeaseAndDesist

— Climate Reality (@ClimateReality) February 24, 2012

Political Atheist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:20:41am

""62% or virgins leave college without that status'''.
///

Just kidding but college is where we make many decisions for ourselves. Some right some wrong. But college is not for religious indoctrination apart from seminary schooling. There are plenty of places to go for that if you wish. Finally we start to beat our own adult path into life. With or without religion.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:21:26am

re: #32 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

There are a lot of Jewish congregations that would hold that you can be an atheist and be an observant Jew, as well.

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:21:36am

What I honestly want to know is why Santorum is so concerned with other people's spiritual health. This isn't something a presidential candidate should be asking. If he's that concerned about young men and women losing their faith, maybe he should leave his wife and take up the priesthood. And as I've said being a non-religious person isn't a sign of bad character. Santorum and others need to get that.

Sionainn Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:24:23am

re: #11 HappyWarrior

I'm bemused by the fact he's rambling against public education and indoctrination when he himself has a poli sci degree from Penn State. And enough about this colleges are indoctrinating kids crap. I've seen right wing nuts claim this about universities for years. I never had anything close to what they're talking about but then again these are the same people who lie repeatedly about the reality of American schools.

The only "indoctrination" I ran into in any college setting was a U.S. History class taught by a Bircher. That was, um, interesting.

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:25:25am

re: #40 Sionainn

The only "indoctrination" I ran into in any college setting was a U.S. History class taught by a Bircher. That was, um, interesting.

Yikes, that had to have been yeah interesting.

mr.fusion Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:26:58am

re: #16 Charles Johnson

That could be his source; but any reports from organizations called "Christian Consulting" are pretty much guaranteed to be bogus.

But would it really surprise you if becoming more educated made you question whether or not the Earth was created in 7 days, Sarai was turned into a pillar of salt, Jonah spent 3 days inside of a wale and emerged alive, Noah lived to be 950 yrs old, etc etc etc

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:29:24am

re: #38 Obdicut

There are a lot of Jewish congregations that would hold that you can be an atheist and be an observant Jew, as well.

I know a few folks in that category.

Kragar Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:31:32am

I can see why Santorum and the GOP hate the idea of educated people in the US. Where would their voter base go?

Lidane Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:32:10am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

And honestly your faith must not be that strong to begin with if you're losing it over hearing things like species adapt to their surroundings and share a common ancestor.

Or over finding out that the Earth is more than 5,000 years old. Or that dinosaurs were real and not a false flag operation from God to test your faith.

These people are some of the weakest believers ever. If learning actual facts or a wider worldview is a threat to your faith, then you never had much faith to begin with.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:32:18am

re: #44 Kragar

Hey man, you back already? Everything check out okay?

Political Atheist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:32:22am

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a few folks in that category.

I can easily imagine keeping to tradition, and kosher. but what of prayers and Tefilin? How can an atheist do that?

mr.fusion Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:33:35am

re: #45 Lidane

Or over finding out that the Earth is more than 5,000 years old. Or that dinosaurs were real and not a false flag operation from God to test your faith.

These people are some of the weakest believers ever. If learning actual facts or a wider worldview is a threat to your faith, then you never had much faith to begin with.

I don't know.....if you grew up being taught that the Bible is true word for word and then you start to learn about things like....you know, science or fact......I can see how it would cause you to question the entire Christian belief system

HappyWarrior Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:34:14am

re: #45 Lidane

Or over finding out that the Earth is more than 5,000 years old. Or that dinosaurs were real and not a false flag operation from God to test your faith.

These people are some of the weakest believers ever. If learning actual facts or a wider worldview is a threat to your faith, then you never had much faith to begin with.

Yep all that too. I mean seriously. Also same could be said about their faith in the country which "gets damaged by America hating professors" who dare to bring up the fact our nation doesn't have a perfect history. If you're not nuanced enough to accept and realize that every nation has had its share of great moments and not so moments as a nation then the problem is on you.

Kragar Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:35:22am

Hey man, you back already? Everything check out okay?

Severe Gastroenteritis, stomach flu. They gave me some stuff for the cramps, I need to push fluids over the next few days. Left some stuff for lab work and they'll call me back if they find anything else.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:37:50am

re: #50 Kragar

Great, I mean, sucks that you feel bad, but at least it's probably not something more dire, and they're testing just in case there's something more esoteric.

Feel better.

Political Atheist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:37:50am

re: #48 mr.fusion

Lots of people leave the literalistic lessons behind and go on to have a life of faith. But the larger point here is that Rick Santorum is now politicizing a religious matter. A personal matter really. Screw him, time for some re-education for him. The part about separating church and state. Then we can get into separating wealth and politics.

Only after those two things are well addressed can any progress be made on the right.

Kragar Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:38:30am

re: #45 Lidane

Or over finding out that the Earth is more than 5,000 years old. Or that dinosaurs were real and not a false flag operation from God to test your faith.

These people are some of the weakest believers ever. If learning actual facts or a wider worldview is a threat to your faith, then you never had much faith to begin with.

Whats the bigger miracle, God wishing and *poof*, we have the world 5000 years ago or God creating the universe over the course of billions of years, using observable scientific phenomenon?

These people sure have an odd idea of omnipotence.

Lidane Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:42:05am

re: #48 mr.fusion

I don't know...if you grew up being taught that the Bible is true word for word and then you start to learn about things like...you know, science or fact...I can see how it would cause you to question the entire Christian belief system

Well sure. Hell, that happened to me. I read all those Bible stories as a kid and thought they were as real as the stuff I was learning in school. Later on, I found out they weren't, and yeah, that led to questions. But it's not the reason I ultimately abandoned my faith.

A solid faith exists beyond the Bible. If your whole belief system is destroyed because the Bible isn't literally true, then that's a problem.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:44:20am

You know, in general, I don't know which of my friends are religious, and which ones aren't. I don't bring up the subject, and I consider it a private matter. Sometimes, obviously, they'll tell a story that happened in the context of going to church or whatever, but in general, it's not something I feel is necessary to bring up in daily life.

Lidane Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:45:45am

re: #53 Kragar

Whats the bigger miracle, God wishing and *poof*, we have the world 5000 years ago or God creating the universe and over the course of billions of years, using observable scientific phenomenon?

These people sure have an odd idea of omnipotence.

They also have a small idea of God.

You'd think that a being that is omniscient and onmipotent would already know what its critics are saying and wouldn't need to feel threatened by it. They already know how that person's life is going to play out and how things are going to end, so why would God care what you say about them? I never understood that. It's like they turned God into an emo teenage girl or something.

funky chicken Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:46:31am

re: #50 Kragar

Severe Gastroenteritis, stomach flu. They gave me some stuff for the cramps, I need to push fluids over the next few days. Left some stuff for lab work and they'll call me back if they find anything else.

Ew. In which state do you reside? I have avoided that virus this winter but am planning some travels over the next month. ... A friend in CO had that and it lasted over a week before he could eat anything but chicken and rice soup and not pay for it.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:46:35am

Not surprising. People with a similar world view as Rick's, who believe that Satan is literally hiding under every rock, in every bush, behind every corner, with a bucket full of irresistible temptations, generally are the kind of people that also believe in outlandish fantasies, incredible conspiracy theories, and tend to fall for obvious cons.

erik_t Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:48:09am

re: #55 Obdicut

it's not something I feel is necessary to bring up in daily life.

And Frothy Mix would respond: therein lies your problem.

Kragar Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:48:12am

re: #56 Lidane

They also have a small idea of God.

You'd think that a being that is omniscient and onmipotent would already know what its critics are saying and wouldn't need to feel threatened by it. They already know how that person's life is going to play out and how things are going to end, so why would God care what you say about them? I never understood that. It's like they turned God into an emo teenage girl or something.

God's plan includes rape, but not contraception.

mr.fusion Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:48:50am

re: #54 Lidane

A solid faith exists beyond the Bible.

That might be true for you, but it is definitely not true for a good many people out there including Rick Santorum

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:49:04am

re: #28 HappyWarrior

It's the typical fuck you, I got mine mentality that many right wing asses like Santorum have.

One thing that occurs to me with the "I got a great college education and was successful, so listen to me when I tell you that college is bad for you is...

It's an attempt to undermine the middle class, as is practically everything else Santorum says, when sheared of its theological pretensions.

It's the approach of someone whose money and social position has put him in a place where he can home-school his kids and protect them from college, and still actually assume they will maintain an affluent lifestyle, because he has that much money and that much influence.

Rick's completely confused piety with having enough money to do what the fuck you want. He should listen to what the Buddha had to say about the lotus blossom.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:49:49am

re: #42 mr.fusion

But would it really surprise you if becoming more educated made you question whether or not the Earth was created in 7 days, Sarai was turned into a pillar of salt, Jonah spent 3 days inside of a wale and emerged alive, Noah lived to be 950 yrs old, etc etc etc

Not Sarai, Lot's wife.

Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:50:20am

re: #45 Lidane

Or over finding out that the Earth is more than 5,000 years old. Or that dinosaurs were real and not a false flag operation from God to test your faith.

These people are some of the weakest believers ever. If learning actual facts or a wider worldview is a threat to your faith, then you never had much faith to begin with.

But maintenance of faith is not their main concern. It's maintenance and expansion of control.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:51:01am

re: #47 Daniel Ballard

I can easily imagine keeping to tradition, and kosher. but what of prayers and Tefilin? How can an atheist do that?

Some say that it's a form of meditation for them, or simply another connection to tradition.

Like they say, some people go to Shul to talk to God, and some go to talk to Goldberg.

carlaschluge Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:51:08am

Congrats!
[Link: topics.dallasnews.com...]

Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:51:29am

re: #51 Obdicut

Great, I mean, sucks that you feel bad, but at least it's probably not something more dire, and they're testing just in case there's something more esoteric.

Feel better.

I wonder how long a diagnosis of lupus lasted...
/

SpaceJesus Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:53:18am

ignorance is strength

funky chicken Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:00:05am

re: #62 SanFranciscoZionist

In his speech, Leary stated:
Like every great religion of the past we seek to find the divinity within and to express this revelation in a life of glorification and the worship of God. These ancient goals we define in the metaphor of the present — turn on, tune in, drop out.[2]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

At least Leary wanted people to have fun while they abandoned employability. He tried to backtrack in the 80s when the babyboomers were all into yuppiedom. I don't think Santorum will ever have the intelligence or humility to realize/admit his error.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:03:20am

First Lady Obama wants more young adults to eat vegetables so they can undergo “indoctrination” to a "Veggie Tales" world view.

celticdragon Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:05:44am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Yes, Rick Santorum actually did say that college education is harming America.

He also said a few weeks ago that single mothers should not be given public aid to go to college. I guess I know why, now.

On the president’s efforts to boost college attendance, Santorum said, “I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely … The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country.”

I am helping to do my part!

I presented my paper today on Creationism in the Classroom: Community Organizing and the Religious Right in the Guilford College Undergraduate Symposium today. :)

iossarian Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:06:04am

As a member of the higher education cabal, I can readily confirm that the core purpose of education is to free young minds from the shackles of fundamentalism and to encourage honest, informed engagement with facts and reality.

I can see how that would be scary to conservatives.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:08:04am

President Obama wants more sanctions against Iran so they can undergo “indoctrination” to a "less is more" world view.

Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:10:59am

re: #72 iossarian

As a member of the higher education cabal, I can readily confirm that the core purpose of education is to free young minds from the shackles of fundamentalism and to encourage honest, informed engagement with facts and reality.

I can see how that would be scary to conservatives.

It circles back to the "Ivory tower liberals" attack.

And they might see this as a good time to make the assault since state assistence to public colleges is going to take a beating. I saw an article today that Corbett (gov of PA) is asking for a 27% cut to the funding that Penn State, Pitt, Temple (and others)* gets from the state. There's a prediction that Temple's average undergrad tuition might go up as much as $3K a year as a result.**

*- These colleges have a sort of quasi-public/private existence. They claim to be private when it's good to be so (to avoid enforcing some regs) and claim to be public in order to get a degree of state funding.

** - As a rough comparison I did five years at Pitt in the early 80s and probably spent

SpaceJesus Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:11:12am

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

The race to replace a New Mexico mayor — who once signed $1 million in architecture contracts while drunk — is now plagued with allegations that one candidate tried to set up another by hiring a topless dancer to go to his office, and have the incident filmed.

what an amazing place

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:11:36am

The Most Interesting President in the World: "I don't always mention my Christian faith, but when I do, wingnuts absolutely lose their shit".

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:14:57am

re: #76 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. Yeah. It's funny, basically, Obama is a lot more religious and talks a lot more about his Christian faith than I'm totally comfortable with, but to these jackholes hes a secular tyrant.

Lidane Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:16:11am

GOP Leaders' Legal Team Will Appeal DOMA Ruling

The legal team backing the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) on behalf of Republican leaders in Congress will appeal a federal judge's ruling which declared the sections of DOMA that define marriage as between a man and a woman unconstitutional.

The notice of appeal, first reported by Chris Geidner, was filed over the objections of Democratic leaders of the House. An appeal would send the case to the Ninth Circuit Appeals Court.

Aceofwhat? Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:20:19am

Blah blah national issues important topics...did anyone see my Heat bring Jeremy what's-his-name back down to earth?

funky chicken Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:20:57am

re: #72 iossarian

As a member of the higher education cabal, I can readily confirm that the core purpose of education is to free young minds from the shackles of fundamentalism and to encourage honest, informed engagement with facts and reality.

I can see how that would be scary to conservatives.

Hey, Santorum just wants the kids to stand up to the man. He's a rebel.

/barf

/sorry Kragar

Aceofwhat? Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:25:24am

re: #72 iossarian

As a member of the higher education cabal, I can readily confirm that the core purpose of education is to free young minds from the shackles of fundamentalism and to encourage honest, informed engagement with facts and reality.

I can see how that would be scary to conservatives.

QFT. Although I did enjoy asking my Biology teachers if the Big Bang was scary to atheists. Some of them were nice enough to say yes.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:25:53am

re: #77 Obdicut

Heh. Yeah. It's funny, basically, Obama is a lot more religious and talks a lot more about his Christian faith than I'm totally comfortable with, but to these jackholes hes a secular tyrant.

He's a Christian Atheist. He's also a Frozen Flame, a Canine Cat, a Gay Heterosexual, and a Manly Wuss.
/

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:26:46am

re: #81 Aceofwhat?

QFT. Although I did enjoy asking my Biology teachers if the Big Bang was scary to atheists. Some of them were nice enough to say yes.

I don't get it.

Aceofwhat? Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:28:11am

re: #83 Obdicut

I don't get it.

Oh. Well, if the universe has a finite beginning, something pushed the switch.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:32:40am

re: #84 Aceofwhat?

Oh. Well, if the universe has a finite beginning, something pushed the switch.

Heh. No, that's not true.

This universe may or may not have had a finite beginning. If it did, and it wasn't caused by the collapse of another universe, then it may be one of those oddities that before the universe exists time doesn't have meaning anyway.

And saying 'god did it' then just raises the question of 'so what created god?', and extends the problem.

I don't know any atheist who's at all scared by the big bang. I think it's rad, personally.

Petero1818 Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:33:34am

re: #1 mr.fusion

For a muslim he sure is secular

Look, I don't see why you don't get this. He is a secular Muslim Socialist Crony Capitalist. Can't you see it?///

Aceofwhat? Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:33:53am

re: #84 Aceofwhat?

Oh. Well, if the universe has a finite beginning, something pushed the switch.

edit: it would seem that something pushed the switch. I found that most professors were comfortable discussing that element of mystery, and that most students were comfortable integrating science into their belief structure. Santorum is wrong. The best christians I know are the ones who constantly challenge their beliefs with new information.

Petero1818 Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:34:20am

At a debate, the crown would boo if you tried to ask him what he meant when he said all that.

Aceofwhat? Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:38:10am

re: #85 Obdicut

Heh. No, that's not true.

This universe may or may not have had a finite beginning. If it did, and it wasn't caused by the collapse of another universe, then it may be one of those oddities that before the universe exists time doesn't have meaning anyway.

And saying 'god did it' then just raises the question of 'so what created god?', and extends the problem.

I don't know any atheist who's at all scared by the big bang. I think it's rad, personally.

Oh, sure. Scared is probably too strong of a word. The more we learn about science, the richer our worldview becomes, whether it's christian or atheist.

The only point I'd quibble about is the collapsing universe part. The acceleration of expansion that we see in ours combines with basic math about the lack of efficiency in the engine that was/is the expansion of the universe to suggest strongly that this isn't a cyclical thing.

Gus Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:51:14am

According to the wingnuts, of which Santroum is one, Obama's a secular Muslim-extremist and a Marxist crony-capitalist. None of which exists in nature. It only exists in the wingnuts rather vivid and almost hallucinogenic imagination.

Obdicut Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:53:02am

re: #89 Aceofwhat?

Nah. We don't understand anything at all near enough to be even to begin to really theorize about whether its cyclical. We can't even model the universe as it is and account for something like gravity, much less begin to account for states so different. That's why CERN is so neat-- because being able to observe particles from that far back in time is really interesting and cool because we don't know much about them, not because we really understand them and therefore can begin making solid predictions from them.

Nobody knows if it's cyclical or not. Nobody knows if time will end. .

watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:08:26pm

re: #1 mr.fusion

For a muslim he sure is secular

That is why the Muslim/Secular/Atheist conspiracy is so threatening to "True American™ " values! Everyone just simply denies that such a conspiracy can even exist! What more proof than that do you need to convince you that it is in fact a hidden conspiracy?

/// [/Freeper logic]

wheat-dogghazi Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:24:08pm

Why stop with universities? Let's just forget that whole Enlightenment, the Renaissance, the Reformation and, while we're at it, the pre-Renaissance (12th-14th centuries - when the first universities in Europe were founded). Things were so much better then.

Flavia Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:12:52pm

re: #42 mr.fusion

But would it really surprise you if becoming more educated made you question whether or not the Earth was created in 7 days, Sarai was turned into a pillar of salt, Jonah spent 3 days inside of a wale and emerged alive, Noah lived to be 950 yrs old, etc etc etc

(Lot's wife. Sarai was Abram's wife - the ones who became Abraham & Sarah.)

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