Utah GOP Pushes Sex Education Bill That Prohibits Teaching Contraception

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In Utah, Republicans are putting in place another right wing social engineering program — a bill that will require all sex education classes to follow an abstinence-only curriculum prohibiting any instruction in contraception.

A bill requiring sex education classes to teach an abstinence-only curriculum moved closer to becoming a law in Utah Wednesday.

The state House passed HB 363 in a 45-28 vote following extensive debate. The bill — which now goes on to the state Senate — would lift the current requirement that all public schools must teach sex ed in grades 8 through 12. If the bill passes, districts would decide whether to offer sex ed classes that teach an abstinence-only curriculum, or not offer the course at all. Republican state Rep. Bill Wright sponsored the proposal.

“We’ve been culturally watered down to think we have to teach about sex, about having sex and how to get away with it, which is intellectually dishonest,” Wright said, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. “Why don’t we just be honest with them upfront that sex outside marriage is devastating?” …

An abstinence-only sex education course, Wright said, would include lessons on friendship, dating and love. It could include lessons on the consequences of sex outside of marriage and a chapter on how to say no to sex. The lawmaker believes that poverty rates would drop if abstinence became a more common practice, the Daily Herald reports.

Wow, this might be our most insane GOP fantasy of the day. That’s the Republican plan to address poverty — teach kids from poor backgrounds not to have sex, while preventing them from learning anything about contraception?

Good luck with that.

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299 comments
1 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:15:42am

Sex outside marriage is only devastating if you do it right. Send $5 for my pamphlet.

2 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:16:32am

re: #1 Obdicut

Sex outside marriage is only devastating if you do it right. Send $5 for my pamphlet.

Your newsletter, I would like to sign up for it, since I find your ideas intriguing.

3 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:16:59am

what the hell is wrong with these people

4 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:17:54am

A vote for the GOP is a Vote for ignorance of the most deliberate kind.

5 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:19:33am

GOP Family Planning:

No sex-ed beyond "abstinence-only" fantasy nonsense
No education on birth control
No access to birth control, and no insurance coverage for it either
No emergency contraception
No abortions unless a woman is willing to be slut-shamed in the process

Yeah. That'll work. =P

6 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:19:33am

A vote for the GOP is a sign that you should visit a doctor

7 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:20:54am

I'm opening the book on the number of days until the bill's main sponsor is found porking his intern against the filing cabinet.

Over/under starts at 27.

8 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:21:07am

Abstinence only is such a stupid policy. Every previous generation has had to some degree pre-martial sex so you're basically telling teenagers "Hey don't do what I did and what I enjoyed doing." Contraception education isn't ideal but it is far more practical than abstinence only.

9 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:22:34am

What no aspirin between the knees lessons?!
///

10 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:23:22am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

Something like 50% of Puritan women were pregnant when they got married.

So if they couldn't pull it off, who thinks we could?

11 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:24:37am

re: #10 Obdicut

Something like 50% of Puritan women were pregnant when they got married.

So if they couldn't pull it off, who thinks we could?

I didn't know that but yeah. My biggest problem with the policy is the base hypocrisy but also the unreasonable expectations. I am not opposed to teaching abstinence but abstinence only is a terrible policy.

12 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:27:34am

re: #5 Lidane

GOP Family Planning:

No sex-ed beyond "abstinence-only" fantasy nonsense
No education on birth control
No access to birth control, and no insurance coverage for it either
No emergency contraception
No abortions unless a woman is willing to be slut-shamed in the process

Yeah. That'll work. =P

You forgot No more IUDs!! (At least in Ohio)

Can someone enlighten me on one aspect of this? Please see the bolded part...

This week, without any public testimony, Republicans on the Ohio House Health and Aging Committee voted along party lines to prohibit Ohio physician assistants from fitting, inserting or removing a device “designed in such a manner that it functions either solely or in combination with other functions by preventing or hindering an embryo from implanting within the uterus or from growing if implantation occurs.”

If IUDs are evil, why would the law prohibit removing them? I don't get it.

13 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:28:46am

What about this study?
[Link: articles.cnn.com...]
EXCERPT
An abstinence-only education program is more effective than other initiatives at keeping sixth- and seventh-graders from having sex within a two-year period, according to a study described by some as a landmark.

The study, published in the current issue of the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine, indicated that about one-third of the preteens and their young teen classmates who received an eight-hour abstinence lesson had sexual intercourse within two years of the class.

By comparison, more than half of the students who were taught about safe sex and condom use reported having intercourse by the two-year mark, and more than 40 percent of students who received either an eight- or 12-hour lesson incorporating both abstinence education and safe sex reported having sex at two years.

14 Bulworth  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:28:58am
“Why don’t we just be honest with them upfront that sex outside marriage is devastating?” …

And if you're gay you can't get married either. That would be redefining marriage. /

15 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:29:15am
The lawmaker believes that poverty rates would drop if abstinence became a more common practice, the Daily Herald reports.

Also, teaching creationism in science class would reduce the number of starving children in the world.

16 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:30:50am

re: #13 Daniel Ballard

Teenagers having sex?

I don't believe it.

17 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:32:50am

re: #13 Daniel Ballard

What about this study?
[Link: articles.cnn.com...]

So basically, abstinence-only fantasies work before kids hit puberty, but once they're teenagers, it's a horrible failure?

18 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:32:54am
“We’ve been culturally watered down to think we have to teach about sex, about having sex and how to get away with it, which is intellectually dishonest,” Wright said, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. “Why don’t we just be honest with them upfront that sex outside marriage is devastating?” …

That's the least honest and the least upfront thing you can say to kids, and they know that. If you say that to them, they will never believe anything else that you say, which may have something to do with declining rates of church attendance.

19 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:33:21am

re: #13 Daniel Ballard

It'd be nice to see the actual study. But the main body of studies says the opposite.

20 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:34:34am

re: #13 Daniel Ballard

Oh, actually, I have read that abstinence training delays the first sexual contact by a few years, but tends to make it riskier-- as in, unprotected sex.

21 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:34:39am

re: #19 Obdicut

It'd be nice to see the actual study. But the main body of studies says the opposite.

If the study was done by someone at a university, I'm not going to pay any attention to it as it will be ALL LIBERAL LIES anyway.

22 Michael McBacon  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:35:24am

STDs are a myth created by NOW.

23 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:36:36am

Of course sex outside of marriage is devastating. A woman might learn that there is more to it than lying back and thinking of England!
//

24 Tigger2  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:36:41am

The Republicans are going a little bit more insane everyday.

25 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:37:36am

re: #24 Tigger2

The Republicans are going a little bit more insane everyday.

That, or they're being betrayed by reality a bit more.

26 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:37:52am

re: #12 makeitstop

If IUDs are evil, why would the law prohibit removing them? I don't get it.

Sometimes removal is needed because of pain or an infection. Women who have had them inserted are also evil, and should suffer pain or die.

27 SpaceJesus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:38:17am

Speaker comes to UNM to deliver speech on Israel, Arab Spring, the Middle East yesterday. Protestors show up. All hell breaks loose.

Youtube Video
28 allegro  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:39:20am

I swear, the bullshit flying outa rightards these past few weeks are making me consider blowing this country to another where some semblance of sanity rules.

29 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:39:23am

What the fuck does " how to get away with it" mean with respect to having sex. Its not like shoplifting a candy bar at Walgreens. Asshat is not a strong enough word for these idiots.

30 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:39:43am

Which is potentially worse? Unprotected and risky sexual encounters or sexual encounters where partners are utilizing condoms and/or other means of birth control.

To me, the answer is easy - the former. If you preach only abstinence and a person is unaware of the many birth control options (condoms, IUD, pill, etc.) they may have a greater risk of pregnancy, STDs, etc.

It would seem to be more cost effective to teach birth control alongside abstinence - not only delaying first sexual encounters, but providing people with the knowledge of how to not find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy on their hands - let alone potential STDs including AIDS (where the medical costs over a lifetime are staggeringly high).

31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:40:02am

You can take all the children in the world and cloister them in an isolated village with no connection to the outside world. No media of any kind. And you can further shelter them by not allowing them to hear, see, or learn anything about sex, including never mentioning where babies come from.

But once puberty hits, their biology will do what it's meant to do, and sex will come as naturally to them as drinking a glass of water.

32 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:40:27am

re: #10 Obdicut

Something like 50% of Puritan women were pregnant when they got married.

So if they couldn't pull it off, who thinks we could?

Puritans (and the English in general) had precontracts -- more than an engagement, less than a marriage -- once you had one, sex was okay. Another lapsed custom.

33 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:40:46am

re: #30 lawhawk

Wouldn't it be the former instead of the latter? Just wondering.

34 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:42:26am

re: #31 Slumbering Behemoth

Add to that the fact that scientists are seeing children reaching puberty earlier than ever before.

35 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:43:52am

re: #33 Lidane

Yes, I had a couple of different trains of thought going - and mixed up which was worse. It clearly is the unprotected and risky sex.

36 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:44:02am

Teaching abstinence only sex ed is like a Driver's Ed class that teaches "Don't drive".

37 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:44:34am

re: #19 Obdicut

It'd be nice to see the actual study. But the main body of studies says the opposite.

I really do not know. I read this some time ago and was lucky to find it at all. I think this part is important
""The study did not impart any moral aspects to delaying the onset of intercourse, such as portraying sex in a negative light, Wagoner said. Nor did the abstinence lesson ask students to delay intercourse until marriage -- only until they are ready.

A link to the publication with a abstinence search filter
Have at it Lizards, maybe its good maybe it a crappy study.
[Link: archpedi.ama-assn.org...]

38 A Mom Anon  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:44:46am

re: #29 The Artist formerly known as Satan

That hit me immediately too. Honest to god these people are pathological. Governing according to one's neuroses is probably not the smartest plan.

39 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:45:02am

Which English queen was it who, on hearing about "abstinence teaching" said, "Fancy telling them to go out and use self-control?" I think it was Mary, wife of George V, but it might have been her daughter-in-law -- neither were exactly liberal in their attitudes. Too bad US "conservatives" don't have a little more sense.

40 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:46:03am

re: #30 lawhawk

It would seem to be more cost effective [...]

Lesson 1: Republicans do not give a single shit about cost effectiveness.

41 allegro  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:46:49am

re: #30 lawhawk

Which is potentially worse? Unprotected and risky sexual encounters or sexual encounters where partners are utilizing condoms and/or other means of birth control.

To me, the answer is easy - the latter. If you preach only abstinence and a person is unaware of the many birth control options (condoms, IUD, pill, etc.) they may have a greater risk of pregnancy, STDs, etc.

It would seem to be more cost effective to teach birth control alongside abstinence - not only delaying first sexual encounters, but providing people with the knowledge of how to not find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy on their hands - let alone potential STDs including AIDS (where the medical costs over a lifetime are staggeringly high).

How about we stop demonizing sex as something evil to be avoided? Good lord, it's no wonder we're nuts as a society. What's devastating is denying a basic, human, NORMAL need. Education on responsible, consensual sex, and that it is perfect okay to enjoy sex outside of the patriarchal institution of marriage is what would go far to solving a multitude of problems like unwanted pregnancies and STDs. It would also lower the divorce rate significantly I'd bet.

42 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:47:03am

re: #39 Cinnabar

Which English queen was it who, on hearing about "abstinence teaching" said, "Fancy telling them to go out and use self-control?" I think it was Mary, wife of George V, but it might have been her daughter-in-law -- neither were exactly liberal in their attitudes. Too bad US "conservatives" don't have a little more sense.

I think British conservatives have always been fairly liberal in contrast with their American counterparts. I mean look at PM David Cameron. I believe he said he was for gay marriage not in spite of being a conservative but because he was one. Can you imagine a prominent American conservative saying that?

43 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:47:04am

re: #32 Cinnabar

Puritans (and the English in general) had precontracts -- more than an engagement, less than a marriage -- once you had one, sex was okay. Another lapsed custom.

Were these religious in nature, civil, or a combination of both?

And is there a wikipedia or similar reference to the historical context? First I've heard of it, or at least referred to by that name.

44 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:47:21am

re: #31 Slumbering Behemoth

But once puberty hits, their biology will do what it's meant to do, and sex will come as naturally to them as drinking a glass of water.

And it will be hilariously filled with awkwardness, misplaced elbows, bumped heads and bruises, but only at first.

45 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:47:37am

re: #41 allegro

How about we stop demonizing sex as something evil to be avoided? Good lord, it's no wonder we're nuts as a society. What's devastating is denying a basic, human, NORMAL need. Education on responsible, consensual sex, and that it is perfect okay to enjoy sex outside of the patriarchal institution of marriage is what would go far to solving a multitude of problems like unwanted pregnancies and STDs. It would also lower the divorce rate significantly I'd bet.

Yeah, and I bet you'd teach FISTING in KINDERGARTEN as well, you FILTHY LIBERAL!

/

46 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:48:19am

re: #32 Cinnabar

Puritans (and the English in general) had precontracts -- more than an engagement, less than a marriage -- once you had one, sex was okay. Another lapsed custom.

During the Church's reign in the middle ages, it was not uncommon to have girls marry at the ages of 12-16. Basically once she could menstruate she was ready for consummation of the marriage (which sometimes even took place earlier). In that context, pre marital sex was certainly less prevalent and teaching abstinence was not really needed. Fast forward 500-600 years, where women have a status different from chattels, it would seem we are ready to have a more enlightened approach to sexuality and the teen years, particularly when I think most Republicans would want to see the age of consent not fall below its current age. My guess is if you pressed Santorum on this, he would see nothing wrong with girls marrying at 16. And he certainly would think girls marrying at 16 is better than them having protected pre marital sex while they obtain an education and become self sufficient productive members of society outside of the home.

47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:50:35am

re: #41 allegro

How about we stop demonizing sex as something evil to be avoided? Good lord, it's no wonder we're nuts as a society. What's devastating is denying a basic, human, NORMAL need. Education on responsible, consensual sex, and that it is perfect okay to enjoy sex outside of the patriarchal institution of marriage is what would go far to solving a multitude of problems like unwanted pregnancies and STDs. It would also lower the divorce rate significantly I'd bet.

But it would also invite Satan into your life. Just sayin'.
/

48 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:52:03am

My youngest daughter, who is getting married on Sunday, has already informed me that she and her husband will be using birth control methods to plan their family (not that it's any of my business, but she did decide to confide in me).

Zedushka and I chose to have a large family, mainly because back when we got married, there was an urgency to replace Jewish population from the Holocaust. That urgency does not influence later generations, and Judaism has always allowed for a variety of birth control methods, even for the "ultra Orthodox."

49 steve_davis  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:54:09am

"how to have sex, and how to get away with it." Jesus on Wheat, these people are just one massive sadosexual clusterfuck.

50 funky chicken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:55:13am

LOLZ about the ad I just got--See why Rick Santorum is a conservative fake! Paid for by Ron Paul for President Committee. OY.

No, I don't think I'll watch.

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:55:20am

re: #48 Learned Mother of Zion

Sorry, this is a Christian nation. We only pick up the Judeo beard when it's convenient to make an argument.
/

52 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:55:27am

What country did this happen in? Oh, right, the USA.

//

53 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:56:45am

re: #49 steve_davis

"how to have sex, and how to get away with it." Jesus on Wheat, these people are just one massive sadosexual clusterfuck.

"Get away with it" meaning not catching a disease or becoming pregnant.

54 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:57:00am

Wikipedia page on Marriage has some interesting data.

===
In England, under the Anglican Church, marriage by consent and cohabitation was valid until the passage of Lord Hardwicke's Act in 1753. This act instituted certain requirements for marriage, including the performance of a religious ceremony observed by witnesses.[34]
===

Previous to this apparently the equivalent to going to Reno was getting married on Fleet Street near Fleet Prison in London. Appears that due to some legal loophole you could get legally married there without requirement of posting banns or getting a license. So you could get married there quickly and it was generally away from one's home parish.

55 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:57:17am

re: #48 Learned Mother of Zion

Absolutely. It's an enlightened view - and one that I wish more people understood.

56 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:58:05am

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, this is a Christian nation. We only pick up the Judeo beard when it's convenient to make an argument pretend to be "diverse".
/

ftfy

57 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:58:20am

At this rate the GOP will be pushing to prevent the distribution of condoms. No sooner than later we'd see a rise in STDs. Of course many of the more diabolical types would like to see an increase of the AIDs pandemic.

59 allegro  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:58:55am

re: #53 Kragar

"Get away with it" meaning not catching a disease or becoming pregnant.

Oh, yes. Unprescribed sex should always be punished to the max. These sick, repressed bumpkins need to... go away.

60 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:59:22am

re: #53 Kragar

"Get away with it" meaning not catching a disease or becoming pregnant.

How DARE you subvert the natural will of GOD!!!11!1

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:59:31am

re: #56 Learned Mother of Zion

Even better.

:smooch:

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:01:39pm

In George Orwell's "1984", The State permitted sex only for the purpose of procreation. Just sayin'.

63 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:02:40pm
64 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:03:22pm

re: #58 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh.

FRC Furious with Cheney for Supporting Marriage Equality

I love the implied equivalency there between fighting against Marriage Equality and fighting the American Revolution with the repeated Ben Franklin analogy.

65 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:03:47pm

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, this is a Christian nation. We only pick up the Judeo beard when it's convenient to make an argument.
/

Ah yes. The Republican "Judeo-Christian" pandering. For all this talk of Judeo coming from the right I ask "where are the Judeos?"

66 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:05:28pm

Reed: There is Nothing Obama Won't do to Win Re-Election

Youtube Video

HE'S GONNA EAT YOUR BABIES!!!11ty

67 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:05:58pm

re: #65 Gus

Ah yes. The Republican "Judeo-Christian" pandering. For all this talk of Judeo coming from the right I ask "where are the Judeos?"

They like to keep us in the back, and haul us out when the situation calls for it. You know, discussions relating to interest on the debt, and anything related to Israel.

68 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:07:22pm

re: #63 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

When does the GOP start calling for permanent surveillance cameras inside women's uteruses with a direct link to a Department of Homeland Procreation?

69 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:07:56pm

Let it be noted that in the passage of this bill, the vote in favor was 45 Republicans, 0 Democrats.

The nay votes were 19 Democrats, 9 Republicans.

Just wanted to get this in before we started in on the inevitable "but Democrats..." stuff.

70 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:08:10pm

The issue of sex education surfaced in the recent edition of the American Journal of Preventative Medicine with a major article: Recommendations for Group-Based Behavioral Interventions to Prevent Adolescent Pregnancy, Human Immunodeficiency Virus, and Other Sexually Transmitted Infections (which is behind a paywall, but a PDF can be found here courtesy of an abstinence-only organization.)

Abstinence-only groups object, of course, and got one of their own to publish a different view in the same journal, "Sex Education Programs for Schools Still in Question" (PDF courtesy of same group) by one Dr. Stan Weed.

I commented on this last article and Dr. Weed last night:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Dr. Weed's organization just happens to be in ... Utah.

Bottom line: SoCons are doing the full court press now, fully into rolling back sex-ed, the pill, etc.

I doubt they are finished yet.

71 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:08:29pm

re: #65 Gus

Ah yes. The Republican "Judeo-Christian" pandering. For all this talk of Judeo coming from the right I ask "where are the Judeos?"

Jews, in general, teach contraception as a matter of personal responsibility. I don't know any Jew, no matter how religious, who thinks that having unending numbers of children is good. Jewish thought and approach to religion tends to be all about balance. Having more children than you can give time and attention and love to isn't seen as a positive thing.

72 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:09:27pm

I have no idea why the url to my comment didn't turn automatically into a link.

73 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:09:38pm

More "bomb Iran" pablum from the peanut gallery.

74 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:11:22pm

"would include lessons on friendship, "

Lessons that will be nowhere near as awesome as the ones from My Little Pony Friendship is Magic of course.

75 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:11:31pm

re: #58 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh.

FRC Furious with Cheney for Supporting Marriage Equality

They're always furious about something.Anyhow, good for Cheney. I know it's easy to say he was motivated by his daughter being a lesbian but Keyes has a lesbian daughter too and he's still a jerk on GLBT issues.

76 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:11:44pm

Haha:

77 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:12:02pm

re: #73 Gus

More "bomb Iran" pablum from the peanut gallery.

[Embedded content]

Why doesn't Rudy sign up if he's so eager to bomb Iran? I hate using the chickenhawk argument but Rudy is making this easy.

78 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:12:36pm

re: #75 HappyWarrior

They're always furious about something.Anyhow, good for Cheney. I know it's easy to say he was motivated by his daughter being a lesbian but Keyes has a lesbian daughter too and he's still a jerk on GLBT issues.

If you ask Alan Keyes, he doesn't have a lesbian daughter. He disowned her, IIRC.

79 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:14:16pm

re: #78 Lidane

If you ask Alan Keyes, he doesn't have a lesbian daughter. He disowned her, IIRC.

Yeah he did. He's an asshole. Always has been. Cheney is usually a jerk and his armchair general antics with this administration annoy me but he showed that he has some decency on this issue. I bet the FRC is most furious at the Maryland Republican who voted for the bill after he met with gay and lesbian couples and realized that they were simply looking to be treated fairly and equally under the law and not looking for "special rights" like the FRC always claims.

80 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:16:08pm

Hey all!

Just wait for the modern version of the Comstock Laws. Coming soon to a legislature near you!

On a lighter note --be thinking of the theme from Jaws when you click.

How is everyone?

81 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:16:18pm

re: #73 Gus

More "bomb Iran" pablum from the peanut gallery.

Ironically I think Obama is far more likely to bomb Iran than Bush was. Also no sitting President threatens military action until it's inevitable. Early statements about keeping "all options on the table" are pretty standard. Rudy's not all bad...
Rudy Giuliani: GOP doesn’t look ‘modern’

“I think the biggest problem right now, I think abortion you can work out… but I think the gay rights issue is a more current one right now. I think beyond all the religious and social parts, it makes the party look like it isn’t a modern party, it doesn’t understand the modern world we live in,” Giuliani said on CNN’s “OutFront.”

82 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:16:46pm

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

As stated above, for an Individual to be a Candidate for the Office of President of the United States, the Candidate must meet the qualifications set forth in the United States Constitution and one of those qualifications is that the Candidate shall be a "natural born Citizen" of the United States. As Barack Hussein Obama II is of the "Mulatto" race, his status of citizenship is founded upon the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Before the [purported] ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, the race of "Negro" or "Mulatto" had no standing to be citizens of the United States under the United States Constitution.

83 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:17:07pm

re: #75 HappyWarrior

They're always furious about something.Anyhow, good for Cheney. I know it's easy to say he was motivated by his daughter being a lesbian but Keyes has a lesbian daughter too and he's still a jerk on GLBT issues.

Cheney loves his daughter more than himself and his ideals.

Alan Keyes sees his family as an extension of himself.

84 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:17:24pm

re: #78 Lidane

If you ask Alan Keyes, he doesn't have a lesbian daughter. He disowned her, IIRC.

I've got no love at all for Keyes, but his Wiki page says no. His daughter reported that he did, however, cut off all financial support.

85 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:17:28pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

Why?

86 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:18:22pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

Racist birther horseshit.

87 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:19:01pm

re: #80 ggt

Hey all!

Just wait for the modern version of the Comstock Laws. Coming soon to a legislature near you!

On a lighter note --be thinking of the theme from Jaws when you click.

How is everyone?

Less caffeinated, more sugar, still cranky.

Making progress though.

88 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:19:04pm

re: #83 ggt

Cheney loves his daughter more than himself and his ideals.

Alan Keyes sees his family as an extension of himself.

Yeah I think so. It's interesting given Cheney's image as being a heartless type but he's been good on this issue. You know who I really gained a ton of respect for though when they took on Prop 8 was Bush's former solicitor general Ted Olson. He worked the case Pro Bono with his former Bush V Gore adversary, David Boles. That was commendable.

89 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:19:17pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

*sigh*

What right wing racism?

90 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:19:39pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

"The mulatto race." What the fuck.

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:20:41pm

re: #46 The Artist formerly known as Satan

During the Church's reign in the middle ages, it was not uncommon to have girls marry at the ages of 12-16. Basically once she could menstruate she was ready for consummation of the marriage (which sometimes even took place earlier). In that context, pre marital sex was certainly less prevalent and teaching abstinence was not really needed. Fast forward 500-600 years, where women have a status different from chattels, it would seem we are ready to have a more enlightened approach to sexuality and the teen years, particularly when I think most Republicans would want to see the age of consent not fall below its current age. My guess is if you pressed Santorum on this, he would see nothing wrong with girls marrying at 16. And he certainly would think girls marrying at 16 is better than them having protected pre marital sex while they obtain an education and become self sufficient productive members of society outside of the home.

Having met a few teenage girls and having been one, I often wonder they were married off because they were such pains-in-the-ass.

:0

92 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:21:04pm

I'm afraid my brain is now translating everything that emerges from the clown car that is the GOP into this brief synopsis.

Youtube Video
93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:21:59pm

re: #41 allegro

How about we stop demonizing sex as something evil to be avoided? Good lord, it's no wonder we're nuts as a society. What's devastating is denying a basic, human, NORMAL need. Education on responsible, consensual sex, and that it is perfect okay to enjoy sex outside of the patriarchal institution of marriage is what would go far to solving a multitude of problems like unwanted pregnancies and STDs. It would also lower the divorce rate significantly I'd bet.

Now you are being a pragmatist.

Stick to the ideal plan or God will punish you.

:0

94 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:22:06pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

Googling. This guy is a serial nutcase. 14th Amendment fruitcakes. Lots of "law suits" showing up.

95 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:22:22pm

re: #85 Gus

Why?

Don't ask me, I'm still gobsmacked.

96 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:22:30pm

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

“I used to be a conservative, and I watch these debates and I’m wondering, I don’t think I’ve changed, but it’s a little troubling sometimes when people are appealing to people’s fears and emotion rather than trying to get them to look over the horizon for a broader perspective, and that’s kind of where we are.”

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that. And yet, he manages to live on this planet, in this country, in the 21st century, and has a track record of actually trying to solve the problems we’re facing without denying that they exist or demagoguing them. He obviously senses that the current Republican candidates are on a Jonestown course, drinking the Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aid on a wide variety of issues

97 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:24:18pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Well, there goes his shot at 2016.

98 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:24:32pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that. And yet, he manages to live on this planet, in this country, in the 21st century, and has a track record of actually trying to solve the problems we’re facing without denying that they exist or demagoguing them. He obviously senses that the current Republican candidates are on a Jonestown course, drinking the Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aid on a wide variety of issues

Obviously Jeb Bush is a RINO.
/

99 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:25:20pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that. And yet, he manages to live on this planet, in this country, in the 21st century, and has a track record of actually trying to solve the problems we’re facing without denying that they exist or demagoguing them. He obviously senses that the current Republican candidates are on a Jonestown course, drinking the Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aid on a wide variety of issues

Oh yeah! Well we didn't like George W. Bush either!

//

100 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:25:20pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Wow. "I used to be a conservative,".

I dunno, man, I doubt that what the GOP is thinking right now is "We need another Bush".

G.W. rarely gets a mention these days, and when he does, it's often a critical one.

101 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:26:11pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that. And yet, he manages to live on this planet, in this country, in the 21st century, and has a track record of actually trying to solve the problems we’re facing without denying that they exist or demagoguing them. He obviously senses that the current Republican candidates are on a Jonestown course, drinking the Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aid on a wide variety of issues

The biggest thing wrong with Jeb is his brother. Which in a rational world would not matter. But the far away lefty moonbats will forever put him in that tiny box of perceptions both legit and those irrational Galloway-esque hyperbolics.

102 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:26:25pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.

It's an undertow.

His wife was born in Mexico.

103 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:26:29pm

Fire up the torches and grab yer pitchforks! We iz goin' to Jeb Bush's house!

104 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:26:32pm

re: #100 Obdicut

Yeah, I suspect that Jeb realizes that he's not going to be a player for a while, so he's got room to say these kind of things.

105 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:26:59pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that.

The Freepers disagree:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

ZOMG RINO! Eleventy!

106 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:27:00pm

re: #99 Gus

It'll be interesting to see how a man saying "I used to be a conservative" floats with the GOP. If that's okay to say, then something really is fundamentally changing.

He might actually suffer a worse fate, and just get ignored. I mean, what is he, exactly, these days?

107 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:27:01pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that. And yet, he manages to live on this planet, in this country, in the 21st century, and has a track record of actually trying to solve the problems we’re facing without denying that they exist or demagoguing them. He obviously senses that the current Republican candidates are on a Jonestown course, drinking the Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aid on a wide variety of issues

I posted that same quote on a thread earlier today. Certainly was refreshing, and I am not really a Bush family supporter. Nonetheless, it shows at least someone is thinking. It does beg the question though; How far gone does a party have to be to have a Bush be the smartest guy under the tent?

108 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:27:06pm

re: #97 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, there goes his shot at 2016.

I don't think so. It probably increases his chances as a serious politician who wants a serious party. The contenders this time (aside from Mitt and Hunstman) have been a joke.

109 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:28:06pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Mitt's been one of the biggest jokes of all-- to quote from that piece you cited:

It is especially sad to watch Mitt Romney, who is not an unintelligent man, make such a fool of himself on so many issues. Part of his alleged “electability” had to do with the fact that he was not insane, that he could appeal to moderates and independents–the sliver where presidential elections are won and lost. But I’ve not yet seen him say, “Whoa guys, that’s a little bit extreme for my tastes” in any of these debates, much less disagree with his opponents from the center. Instead, he has–shamelessly and sometimes hilariously–tried to portray himself as righter than thou whenever the opportunity arises.

110 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:28:37pm

re: #100 Obdicut

Wow. "I used to be a conservative,".

I dunno, man, I doubt that what the GOP is thinking right now is "We need another Bush".

G.W. rarely gets a mention these days, and when he does, it's often a critical one.

I agree that I don't see much chance of another Bush in the White House.

111 Petero1818  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:29:03pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I don't think so. It probably increases his chances as a serious politician who wants a serious party. The contenders this time (aside from Mitt and Hunstman) have been a joke.

And if Romney is the nominee and loses to Obama, the 2016 candidates will make the 2012 group look like the advisory board at your local planned parenthood.

112 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:29:08pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

I sense a turning tide.
Did Jeb Bush Actually Say That?

You must understand: Jeb Bush really is a conservative, and a thoughtful one at that. And yet, he manages to live on this planet, in this country, in the 21st century, and has a track record of actually trying to solve the problems we’re facing without denying that they exist or demagoguing them. He obviously senses that the current Republican candidates are on a Jonestown course, drinking the Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aid on a wide variety of issues

The problem with Jeb Bush saving the Republican Party is that they don't particularly want to be saved right now.

"Was that life preserver paid for with government dollars? No, thanks, I'll just swim out a little further."

113 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:29:19pm

re: #106 Obdicut

It'll be interesting to see how a man saying "I used to be a conservative" floats with the GOP. If that's okay to say, then something really is fundamentally changing.

He might actually suffer a worse fate, and just get ignored. I mean, what is he, exactly, these days?

It's funny because I was just talking to someone were I'm staying at now and he mentioned how "being a Republican or a conservative" used to mean small government and in essence "not this shit." He's pretty much a libertarian and he doesn't like any of this line-up. Not even Paul. He can't stand Santorum.

114 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:30:18pm

You know I have suspected for some time now that the Bush family is worried about the direction their party is heading in. H.W Bush and Mrs. Bush strongly supported Rick Perry's opponent and W Bush made a speech at one of the Texas universities condemning the growth of nativism and his response to the Obama administration succeeding in the Osama operation was statesman. I didn't like G.W Bush as president but I'd take him as the Republican nominee over any of the four left and all the other ones that have since exited except Huntsman. I do think Jeb is damaged by his brother's name who ironically has grown just as if not more unpopular in Republican circles than he was in Democratic ones. He is qualified for the job though.

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:30:41pm

The Republican Party needs a for Bill Buckley to come back from the grave.

Until his reincarnation arrives, the Party is lost and I am not a Republican.

116 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:30:54pm
117 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:30:58pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Mitt's been one of the biggest jokes of all-- to quote from that piece you cited:

I would like to see him stand up for his record too but I don't think it's smart for the primaries. They are about pandering to the base. It's just the way it works.

118 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:30:59pm

re: #113 Gus

It's funny because I was just talking to someone were I'm staying at now and he mentioned how "being a Republican or a conservative" used to mean small government and in essence "not this shit." He's pretty much a libertarian and he doesn't like any of this line-up. Not even Paul. He can't stand Santorum.

And he also mentioned that they used to keep religion out of things within the GOP and explicitly mentioned "separation of church and state." Not this time around with the religious extremists within the GOP. Basically we have three factors destroying the Republican party: the religious extremists; the racists/birthers; and the Tea Party.

119 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:31:04pm

re: #101 Daniel Ballard

The biggest thing wrong with Jeb is his brother. Which in a rational world would not matter. But the far away lefty moonbats will forever put him in that tiny box of perceptions both legit and those irrational Galloway-esque hyperbolics.

Let's see...

Anti-affirmative action.
Anti-choice.
Cut education funding.
Pro-death penalty.

Any other reasons for me to support good ol' Jeb?

He can take his road to Damascus moment and stick it up his fat ass.

120 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:31:26pm

re: #116 Lidane

Yeah I heard Mitt say that and thought something sounded wrong.

121 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:31:32pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I agree that I don't see much chance of another Bush in the White House.

Ever consider it is about as fair to judge Jeb by his brother as it is to judge Jimmy Carter by Billy Carter? It's a great example of how the unthinking critics cut us off from explorable options.

122 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:31:39pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Mitt's been one of the biggest jokes of all--

Romney crowd

Obama crowd

Lulz.

Edited to fix location attribution. Photo context here.

123 Sionainn  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:32:14pm

re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth

Reed: There is Nothing Obama Won't do to Win Re-Election

[Embedded content]HE'S GONNA EAT YOUR BABIES!!!11ty

I thought he was talking about the GOP until he got to the part where he mentioned Obama. Funny how that works.

124 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:32:29pm

re: #119 iossarian

Let's see...

Anti-affirmative action.
Anti-choice.
Cut education funding.
Pro-death penalty.

Any other reasons for me to support good ol' Jeb?

He can take his road to Damascus moment and stick it up his fat ass.

Actually you prove my point. Jeb should be judged by Jebs actions. Not his brothers. Thanks!

125 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:32:29pm

re: #122 Interesting Times

Romney crowd at Ford Field

Obama crowd at Ford Field

Lulz.

I think that last one is Invesco. Or what was Invesco. Mile High, Denver.

126 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:33:17pm

re: #121 Daniel Ballard

Ever consider it is about as fair to judge Jeb by his brother as it is to judge Jimmy Carter by Billy Carter? It's a great example of how the unthinking critics cut us off from explorable options.

I don't judge Jeb by his brother, I judge him by his policies, which are god-awful.

Just another retread of the smirking bastards who got us into this whole shitstorm in the first place.

127 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:33:42pm

Yeah, that's Invesco not Ford Field.

128 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:33:48pm

You know I remember reading about Barry Goldwater talking to Bob Dole at the 1996 RNC remarking on how funny it was that he and Bob had become the new liberals in the GOP after both men had in their younger days been the voice of conservatism within the party. And this brings me to why I like Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford always defended John Paul Stevens' judicial legacy even though it probably what he or other conservatives expected out of JPS but Jerry being Jerry stood by his pick. That's admirable to me.

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:35:13pm

For some reason, I think we've seen the end of political dynasties in the WH for a while.

130 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:35:17pm

re: #127 Gus

Yeah, that's Invesco not Ford Field.

Correct, I skimmed the original article from where the photos came and missed the "Denver" bit. Original comment edited.

131 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:36:56pm

re: #130 Interesting Times

Correct, I skimmed the original article from where the photos came and missed the "Denver" bit.

Yep. In any case. It will probably be a long time before anyone sees the kind of crowds Obama drew in 2008. I'm sure that Obama will still draw more than Romney especially in Denver. Romney's pretty much washed up.

132 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:37:07pm

re: #129 ggt

For some reason, I think we've seen the end of political dynasties in the WH for a while.

The dynasty thing was part of why I didn't support Clinton in 2008. She's a smart, capable enough woman but it hit me that had she been elected that we would have nothing but Bushes and Clintons since 1989. Pretty alarming considering that would have been over 90% of my overall life. Besides I think Hiliary's dong a great job at the State Department(hire me please!)

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:38:58pm

re: #132 HappyWarrior

The dynasty thing was part of why I didn't support Clinton in 2008. She's a smart, capable enough woman but it hit me that had she been elected that we would have nothing but Bushes and Clintons since 1989. Pretty alarming considering that would have been over 90% of my overall life. Besides I think Hiliary's dong a great job at the State Department(hire me please!)

Yeah, but I kinda think we screwed that up. There are days when I wish Hillary was in the WH. She's a ball buster.

I just hope the Religious Dynasties don't take over.

134 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:39:13pm

re: #117 Killgore Trout

I would like to see him stand up for his record too but I don't think it's smart for the primaries. They are about pandering to the base. It's just the way it works.

Nah. That's pretending the base is the same every year. This year, things are especially fucking insane on the GOP side. That's why it's so hilarious to see Mitt, who's one virtue was that he could have claimed to be a moderate, attempt to run to the right of these nutjobs in so many ways.

That goes beyond pandering, into self-parody. But there's also no reason to believe that Mitt isn't personally highly socially conservative, and will do anything to slow down the race to kill women's rights, break down separation between church and state, and appoint judges that feel the same way.

135 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:39:30pm

re: #121 Daniel Ballard

Ever consider it is about as fair to judge Jeb by his brother as it is to judge Jimmy Carter by Billy Carter? It's a great example of how the unthinking critics cut us off from explorable options.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me three times...

136 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:41:27pm

Calling back to the last thread's topic...

Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum said Thursday that President Obama wants more young adults to go to college so they can undergo “indoctrination” to a secular world view.

Here's a perfect example of secular indoctrination that Rick was talking about.
/

137 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:42:26pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

Actually you prove my point. Jeb should be judged by Jebs actions. Not his brothers. Thanks!

That makes it sound as though you like those parts of Jeb Bush.

138 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:43:30pm

re: #133 ggt

Yeah, but I kinda think we screwed that up. There are days when I wish Hillary was in the WH. She's a ball buster.

I just hope the Religious Dynasties don't take over.

I don't know. I think we needed some new blood in the WH. I do think she would have made a good president though.

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:43:43pm

re: #136 Slumbering Behemoth

Calling back to the last thread's topic...

Here's a perfect example of secular indoctrination that Rick was talking about.

You mean behaving exactly as a religious person should with the praying and giving to the church part?

The religious whackos would rather you Praise Bob on a hourly basis than actually live the life.

140 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:44:56pm

“Thrilled Gov. Romney enjoys my old character. I enjoyed the character he used 2 b 2. If he’d embrace that again, he’d b a great candidate.” -- Jason Alexander ("George Castanza")

141 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:45:05pm

re: #139 ggt

Should I have added a sarc tag? I'm gonna add a sarc tag.

142 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:45:41pm

re: #138 HappyWarrior

I don't know. I think we needed some new blood in the WH. I do think she would have made a good president though.

New blood that isn't Whacko.

143 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:46:26pm

re: #140 Gus

“Thrilled Gov. Romney enjoys my old character. I enjoyed the character he used 2 b 2. If he’d embrace that again, he’d b a great candidate.” -- Jason Alexander ("George Castanza")

Ha, touche Jason, touche. I know a guy that I went to college with. Massachusetts liberal and all, points out to me that the first candidate he worked for was Romney 2002 and is just amazed at the about face Mitt has done.

144 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:47:09pm

re: #143 HappyWarrior

Ha, touche Jason, touche. I know a guy that I went to college with. Massachusetts liberal and all, points out to me that the first candidate he worked for was Romney 2002 and is just amazed at the about face Mitt has done.

He wants to be POTUS and he has to jump thru the GOP hoops.

145 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:47:11pm

re: #142 ggt

New blood that isn't Whacko.

Well yeah that goes without saying.

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:47:21pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

That's strict constructionism for you!

147 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:47:42pm

re: #146 Peanut Gallery

That's strict constructionism for you!

Hey, that's enough from the peanut gallery.

148 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:47:45pm

re: #136 Slumbering Behemoth

Calling back to the last thread's topic...

Here's a perfect example of secular indoctrination that Rick was talking about.

In a sane world, a presidential candidate stating flat out that going to college is harming America would receive endless play on all channels.

I don't watch any TV these days, but I bet this will never be mentioned.

149 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:48:15pm

re: #144 ggt

He wants to be POTUS and he has to jump thru the GOP hoops.

That's his problem. He wants to be POTUS so bad that he's willing to abandon everything he's stood for simply so he can suck up to the conservatives. That's his problem. He has no principles. He sees this as just another item on the old resume. I am not impressed with Mitt at all. Never have been honest.

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:49:07pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

That's his problem. He wants to be POTUS so bad that he's willing to abandon everything he's stood for simply so he can suck up to the conservatives. That's his problem. He has no principles. He sees this as just another item on the old resume. I am not impressed with Mitt at all. Never have been honest.

The final final against Obama after he get's the nomination will be interesting.

151 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:50:38pm

I tell ya'. Breitbart is somewhere in outer space.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Click the link there. Now he's taken to calling the left, "radical totalitarian left." Pretty soone Bretibart will start speaking highly of Pinochet and Milosovic.

152 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:50:57pm

re: #150 ggt

The final final against Obama after he get's the nomination will be interesting.

Yeah he's gonna try to moderate but at the same time he's gonna be forced to prove his conservative bonafides by picking someone to satisfy them. He's in a situation much like McCain was four years ago except McCain was likable.

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:52:17pm
Mr. Obama is a radical leftist. Like all such extremists, he has nothing but contempt for traditional Christianity and the family.

His wife and children will be shocked to learn that.

154 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:53:05pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

That's his problem. He wants to be POTUS so bad that he's willing to abandon everything he's stood for simply so he can suck up to the conservatives. That's his problem. He has no principles. He sees this as just another item on the old resume. I am not impressed with Mitt at all. Never have been honest.

155 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:53:11pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

Really insane that that's there in an actual newspaper.

156 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:53:37pm

re: #43 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Combination, I think. I found out about this by reading Shakespeare -- if you can't find it elsewhere, a reasonably comprehensive edition of Measure for Measure (Act IV scene 1 "He is your husband on a pre-contract") will probably include a discussion of the legal concept.

157 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:54:09pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

His wife and children will be shocked to learn that.

Even my Hubby knows Obama loves his family. He doesn't like him as POTUS but wants him alive to walk those girls down the aisle when they get married.

Who are these people?

158 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:54:10pm

Heh. In countering Republican efforts to ban abortions after 20 weeks, Georgia Democrats have introduced legislation that would ban vasectomies in all cases except where to avert serious injury or death on grounds that it would deprive thousands of children from birth.

The bill reads: "It is patently unfair that men avoid the rewards of unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly. ... It is the purpose of the General Assembly to assert an invasive state interest in the reproductive habits of men in this state and substitute the will of the government over the will of adult men."

“If we legislate women’s bodies, it’s only fair that we legislate men’s,” said Neal, who said she wanted to write bill that would generate emotion and conversation the way anti-abortion bills do. “There are too many problems in the state. Why are you under the skirts of women? I’m sure there are other places to be."

159 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:54:14pm

As far as politics goes, here is one of the trump cards:

Oil Rises a Seventh Day in Longest Winning Streak in Two Years

And, just a reminder, more of the world petroleum supply uses "Brent" rather than the US West Texas Intermediate (WTI) pricing. This is important to us because since the great recession WTI has been tracking lower than Brent significantly. If WTI starts to accelerate upwards towards Brent (say, because of increased American use) then prices here for products will go up even more.

Gasoline prices around my area have gone up quite a bit lately. People are talking. Sooner or later they'll fall for demagogues, such as Newt Gingrich, who promises them lies of $2.50/gal gasoline.

160 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:54:28pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

His wife and children will be shocked to learn that.

This is what I always amuses me when I hear conservatives say liberals "hate the family." I remember reading an interview with George McGovern and how shocked he was to discover a "pro family group" rated him so low. He was like damn here I am married for the same woman for forty some years and they think I am anti family? But "pro family" in this lingo means anti gay.

161 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:55:01pm

re: #155 Obdicut

Really insane that that's there in an actual newspaper.

It's the Moonie Times. They've been insane for ages.

162 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:55:14pm

re: #155 Obdicut

Really insane that that's there in an actual newspaper.

Don't you dare impugn the Washington Times in such a fashion!

163 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:55:43pm

re: #155 Obdicut

Really insane that that's there in an actual newspaper.

I feel like I'm in some fucked up, alternate reality some days.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:56:08pm

re: #158 lawhawk

Heh. In countering Republican efforts to ban abortions after 20 weeks, Alabama Democrats have introduced legislation that would ban vasectomies in all cases except where to avert serious injury or death on grounds that it would deprive thousands of children from birth.

on my fb

165 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:56:26pm

re: #148 Renaissance_Man

In a sane world, a presidential candidate stating flat out that going to college is harming America would receive endless play on all channels.

I don't watch any TV these days, but I bet this will never be mentioned.

It would be mentioned if Santorum was a Democrat.

Imagine the shitstorm if Barack Obama had said even half of the things that Rick Santorum has said in the last month.

166 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:57:17pm

re: #154 Interesting Times

Bob Dole says that Bob Dole deserves to be President!
/

167 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:57:27pm

re: #154 Interesting Times

re: #154 Interesting Times

I definitely agree with that. This is a guy who thinks making over a 100 grand on speaking tours "isn't that much." It's his freedom to do that but Mitt don't patronize us by claiming that's not a lot of money.

168 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:58:16pm

Never let it be said that critical reviews do not play an important part in the choice of one's entertainment.

Today I stopped by a Rite Aid, and started looking over the paperbacks as I'm just about finished the Jack Reacher novel I've been reading.

Most of the books there were women-oriented, but I did see a thriller by Brad Thor.

Don't know whether or not Mr. Thor is a good writer, but when I saw the rave review from breitbart.com it went back on the shelf.

169 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:58:21pm

re: #166 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Bob Dole says that Bob Dole deserves to be President!
/

Talk about Patricians for Patricians!

170 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:58:28pm

Newt Gingrich releases a soliloquy on energy: ‘I know that we can do better’

Newt Gingrich recently presented an ad, featuring himself talking about energy for 29 minutes. Yes, that’s right. Just him, talking about energy, for 29 minutes. According to Wall Street Journal, his campaign is planning to run the full ad in “key cities” until Super Tuesday March, 6.

[...]

Just because every energy producer/trader in the world needs Newt Gringrich to do their job:

Youtube Video
171 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:58:54pm

re: #160 HappyWarrior

I lean conservative, and would never dream of uttering such nonsense. But of course, I would likely be condemned in certain circles for daring to assert that "Liberals are people too".

:sigh:

172 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:59:02pm

re: #162 iossarian

Don't you dare impugn the Washington Times in such a fashion!

Not even slightly possible. :-)

173 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:59:04pm

Newt just pulls numbers out of his ass.

Classic demagogue, and he'll find his supporters.

174 allegro  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:59:12pm

re: #158 lawhawk

Heh. In countering Republican efforts to ban abortions after 20 weeks, Georgia Democrats have introduced legislation that would ban vasectomies in all cases except where to avert serious injury or death on grounds that it would deprive thousands of children from birth.

I also like the idea that prescriptions for Viagra and other such sexual medical aids for men be restricted to only married men for purposes of procreation only.

175 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:59:12pm

re: #170 freetoken

Only Newt Gingrich would think Newt Gingrich for 29 minutes straight is a good idea for an ad.

176 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:59:39pm

re: #158 lawhawk

Heh. In countering Republican efforts to ban abortions after 20 weeks, Georgia Democrats have introduced legislation that would ban vasectomies in all cases except where to avert serious injury or death on grounds that it would deprive thousands of children from birth.

Not going to affect the right group of men. Needed a bill that affected Viagra users or something else that made sex for males more difficult or potentially shaming.

177 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 12:59:55pm

re: #175 Obdicut

Only Newt Gingrich would think Newt Gingrich for 29 minutes straight is a good idea for an ad.

Heh, watch the video. Be transformed.

Believe, and you will be saved.

178 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:00:17pm

Salvation by North Dakota.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:00:33pm

re: #174 allegro

I also like the idea that prescriptions for Viagra and other such sexual medical aids for men be restricted to only married men for purposes of procreation only.

copying and pasting to my fb as well. Hope you don't mind.

:)

180 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:00:52pm

re: #175 Obdicut

Only Newt Gingrich Mitt Romney would think Newt Gingrich for 29 minutes straight is a good idea for an ad.

Fixed.

181 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:01:02pm

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

I lean conservative, and would never dream of uttering such nonsense. But of course, I would likely be condemned in certain circles for daring to assert that "Liberals are people too".

:sigh:

It's not your fault. This is what happens when an ideology's most influential member is a pompous blowhard like Limbaugh who has made a career out of hating liberals.

182 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:01:07pm

That video of Newt's is 29 minutes of deception.

183 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:01:14pm

re: #122 Interesting Times

Romney crowd at Ford Field

Obama crowd at Ford Field

Lulz.

LOL Check this one out.

Image: romneydetroit.jpg

From: Mitt Romney Delivers Big Speech About Nothing To Empty Stadium

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:01:23pm

re: #177 freetoken

Heh, watch the video. Be transformed.

Believe, and you will be saved.

Newt for 29 minutes? No thanks, I have drying paint that needs watching.

185 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:01:30pm

re: #176 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A bill requiring prostate exam or other invasive procedures to determine that Viagra is medically necessary - along with a 48 hour waiting period between initial consult and final consult for Viagra as well as warnings about use/misuse of the drug can result in death, long term health risks, etc.. /that pretty much covers it.

186 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:01:47pm

re: #183 Gus

LOL Check this one out.

Image: romneydetroit.jpg

From: Mitt Romney Delivers Big Speech About Nothing To Empty Stadium

Heh. Click here instead.

Image: romneydetroit.jpg

187 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:02:34pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

It's not your fault. This is what happens when an ideology's most influential member is a pompous blowhard like Limbaugh who has made a career out of hating liberals.

I know. It just baffles me that crap like that is so popular. It's like these people have never seen a liberal in the wild.

188 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:02:36pm

re: #183 Gus

That is a pathetic turnout for a supposed presidential candidate.

Wow.

189 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:02:40pm

No, really. Watch the video. Really.

It'll find a place in textbooks.

Propaganda textbooks, that is.

Oh, and a book on logical fallacy.

190 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:02:40pm

re: #176 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Not going to affect the right group of men. Needed a bill that affected Viagra users or something else that made sex for males more difficult or potentially shaming.

Write a bill limiting Viagra and Cialis prescriptions to married men with wives of child-bearing age, and require mandatory prostate exams before the prescriptions are filled.

Oh, and refuse to allow insurance coverage for Viagra and Cialis. That should do it.

191 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:02:55pm

re: #177 freetoken

Heh, watch the video. Be transformed.

Believe, and you will be saved.

All Hail Hypno-Callista!
/

192 dragonfire1981  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:03:15pm

re: #186 Gus

Heh. Click here instead.

Image: romneydetroit.jpg

Mitt Romney was back in his home state of Michigan, where he lived 50 years ago, to deliver a hotly anticipated speech on his latest, most deeply considered plan to toss the American people another $3-$5 trillion in tax cuts while offsetting the cost by ???ing tax expenditures. The speech, hosted by the Detroit Economic Club, was held in that most ambitious of Michigan venues, Ford Field, the only structure capable of holding the tens of thousands of people who weren’t there.

What powerful optics for Mitt Romney today, giving his speech to the only 1,200 people with a positive net worth in the Detroit metropolitan area, in a football stadium that spectators will fill to the brim when watching the Lions go 0-16 but won’t come near when Mitt Romney books it to unveil his latest mega-pander.

Heh, I love this person's writing style.

193 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:03:17pm

Did they expect to fill the stadium?

Or did they really think it was a good idea to present this visual?

It is kinda poignant.

194 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:03:40pm

re: #188 Obdicut

That is a pathetic turnout for a supposed presidential candidate.

Wow.

Really sad turnout. Especially considering how much he touts his father's legacy as governor of Michigan. He's all washed up.

195 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:04:09pm

re: #185 lawhawk

A bill requiring prostate exam or other invasive procedures to determine that Viagra is medically necessary - along with a 48 hour waiting period between initial consult and final consult for Viagra as well as warnings about use/misuse of the drug can result in death, long term health risks, etc.. /that pretty much covers it.

I'd also add in mandatory watching of a Pauly Shore video, but that might constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

196 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:04:23pm

re: #193 Gus

He's all washed up.

He's past his Sell-By date, already?

197 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:04:46pm

Ray Comfort would approve of that Gingrich video.

198 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:05:05pm

re: #196 freetoken

He's past his Sell-By date, already?

Quicker than a small tub of tofu.

//

199 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:05:40pm

Oh man, this is the "The trees are the right height" speech!

I actually love this state. This feels good being back in Michigan. You know, the trees are the right height, the streets are just right. I like the fact that most of the cars i see are Detroit-made automobiles. I drive a Mustang and a Chevy pickup truck. Ann drives a couple of Cadillacs. I used to have a dodge truck, so I used to have all three covered.

"Let me babble about my wealth for awhile and attempt to make you bucolic bumpkins feel at home by telling you how much I like your trees"

200 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:06:00pm

re: #186 Gus

Heh. Click here instead.

Image: romneydetroit.jpg

From the comments:

Schmannnity 116p · 15 minutes ago
That stadium looks 99% empty!

SorosBot 136p · 12 minutes ago
Well Mittens says it's 1% full!

201 Bulworth  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:06:34pm

re: #199 Obdicut

Oh man, this is the "The trees are the right height" speech!


"Let me babble about my wealth for awhile and attempt to make you bucolic bumpkins feel at home by telling you how much I like your trees"

OK, can someone clue me in about the whole "trees" thing? Is the height of trees somehow relevant to the people of Mich?

202 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:06:53pm

re: #187 Slumbering Behemoth

I know. It just baffles me that crap like that is so popular. It's like these people have never seen a liberal in the wild.

Humans find it, if anything, easier to hate people they don't know personally. It's no wonder it's popular. The really amazing part is how strong the cult indoctrination is, so that the cultists can keep their hate even when they actually know liberals/Muslims/Democrats.

203 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:06:57pm

Gingrich' biggest lie isn't about geology, it's about economics.

He (and similar demagogues) and his followers just refuse to accept basic tenets of supply and demand.

That video is a classic.

204 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:07:28pm

re: #201 Bulworth

OK, can someone clue me in about the whole "trees" thing? Is the height of trees somehow relevant to the people of Mich?

It's just one of those things you say when you're Mitt Romney trying to talk to non-politicians. You talk about streets, trees, you know, things you're pretty sure they have.

205 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:07:58pm

re: #199 Obdicut

Oh man, this is the "The trees are the right height" speech!

"Let me babble about my wealth for awhile and attempt to make you bucolic bumpkins feel at home by telling you how much I like your trees"

Heh he's so incapable of connecting. If he were smart, he'd throw a one liner about the Lions or Tigers.

206 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:08:07pm

re: #201 Bulworth

OK, can someone clue me in about the whole "trees" thing? Is the height of trees somehow relevant to the people of Mich?

I'm all out of witty quips. I think he's just a moron, and thus can be relied upon to say moronic things every so often.

207 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:08:12pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

Heh he's so incapable of connecting. If he were smart, he'd throw a one liner about the Lions or Tigers.

or Bears?

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:08:42pm

re: #185 lawhawk

A bill requiring prostate exam or other invasive procedures to determine that Viagra is medically necessary - along with a 48 hour waiting period between initial consult and final consult for Viagra as well as warnings about use/misuse of the drug can result in death, long term health risks, etc.. /that pretty much covers it.

You made it on my fb as well "as a friend".

Hope it's ok.

209 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:08:52pm

re: #207 ggt

or Bears?

Oh my.

210 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:09:41pm

re: #209 Obdicut

Oh my.

Well, is Luap Nor the munchkin advising them to follow the Yellow Brick Road?

211 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:10:08pm

Mitt Romney: "I Love Lamp"

Youtube Video
212 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:10:14pm

re: #201 Bulworth

OK, can someone clue me in about the whole "trees" thing? Is the height of trees somehow relevant to the people of Mich?

//They're short enough to build your child's treehouse in, and tall enough to hang yourself from when you loose your home state's primary.

---Jon Stewart extrapolating that particular quote.

213 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:10:31pm

re: #210 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Well, is Luap Nor the munchkin advising them to follow the Yellow Brick Road?

No, I think he is the guy telling them the Wizard is bogus.

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:11:08pm

re: #211 Gus

Mitt Romney: "I Love Lamp"

[Embedded content]

I'm not looking, is it a the Leg Lamp from A Christmas Story?

215 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:11:18pm

re: #208 ggt

No problem.

216 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:11:27pm

re: #210 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Well, is Luap Nor the munchkin advising them to follow the Yellow Brick Road?

I think Luap Nor is playing the Wizard in this edition.
Romney- The Lion- needs courage
Santorum-The Scarecrow- needs a brain
Gingrich- The Tin Man- needs a heart though you could have Mitt play this role.

217 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:11:45pm

Mitt Romney re: #214 ggt

I'm not looking, is it a the Leg Lamp from A Christmas Story?

Anchorman

218 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:12:17pm

re: #217 Gus

Mitt Romney

Anchorman

Or...

Mitt Romney's recent pandering speech in Michigan sounded awfully familiar. Just as Will Ferrell's character Ron Burgundy in the movie Anchorman might have asked, "Mitt, are you just naming things you see in the state and saying you love them?"

219 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:12:29pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy shit, dude...

Suit Says Obama Can’t Run In Alaska Because He’s of the “Mulatto” Race

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

220 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:12:31pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I think Luap Nor is playing the Wizard in this edition.
Romney- The Lion- needs courage
Santorum-The Scarecrow- needs a brain
Gingrich- The Tin Man- needs a heart though you could have Mitt play this role.

Pay no attention to the Reagan behind the curtain!

221 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:13:45pm

Mitt Romney missed his calling as a regional manager for the "Dunder Mifflin paper company."

//

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:14:23pm

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

There are those in Alaska who want to secede. I say, let them. If they want our Military protection against The Greater Powers to the East -- they'll shut up.

223 dragonfire1981  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:14:31pm

The only thing that I can speculate he MIGHT be referring to are the differences between Southern pine trees, seen here:

Image: 6283453205_410c904e26_z.jpg

And Northern pines, seen here:

Image: 9909_02_9243---Pine-trees-in-Winter_web.jpg

As you can see, the Southern variety has long narrow trunks, with needles only at the very top of the tree, while the Northern variety (Christmas tree type trees) are more uniform and have needles all the way down.

Still doesn't make a lot of sense either way.

224 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:14:37pm
225 iossarian  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:14:49pm

Weekend time. Be well everyone, and remember, a vote for a Republican is a vote for a government employee monitoring your sexual activity!

226 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:15:13pm

Algebra question:

Newt Gingrich walks into a bar, and sees 99 bottle of beer on the wall.

Newt takes one down, passes it around.

How many bottles of beer are left on the wall?

227 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:17:29pm

re: #226 freetoken

Algebra question:

Newt Gingrich walks into a bar, and sees 99 bottle of beer on the wall.

Newt takes one down, passes it around.

How many bottles of beer are left on the wall?

Faulty premise. You're assuming that Gingrich would be able to share with anyone. =P

228 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:18:20pm

re: #72 freetoken

I have no idea why the url to my comment didn't turn automatically into a link.

Argh, that's a pesky bug in my URL-matching regular expression code, that I just haven't gotten around to fixing yet. It happens when you have a link already formatted with the <a> tag, before the plain text URL. For some reason it misses the plain text in that case.

229 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:20:07pm

I see Rick is riling up our European allies already.

[Link: worldnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

230 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:21:03pm

re: #228 Charles Johnson

I'm sure Newt Gingrich could tell you what is wrong with the regular expression.

231 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:21:43pm

re: #229 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I see Rick is riling up our European allies already.

[Link: worldnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Ha. I knew that would start happening sooner or later.

232 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:21:56pm

re: #229 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I see Rick is riling up our European allies already.

[Link: worldnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Really he's alienating the Dutch? I can't wait to see what he does with countries we have real complicated relationships with.

233 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:22:43pm

Romney's already insulted "the Europeans" left and right with his pablum about "we don't want to be like the Europeans."

234 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:23:00pm

re: #229 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And the "Sarah Palin Death Panel Award" goes to...

235 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:23:28pm

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Yeah, the Dutch. With whom we have hardly had any issues during our entire history.

236 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:23:31pm

re: #233 Gus

Romney's already insulted "the Europeans" left and right with his pablum about "we don't want to be like the Europeans."

Yeah I've seen that. What a condescending jackass he is.

237 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:24:08pm

re: #235 freetoken

Yeah, the Dutch. With whom we have hardly had any issues during our entire history.

They were one of our first European allies in fact if memory serves.

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:24:45pm

re: #233 Gus

Romney's already insulted "the Europeans" left and right with his pablum about "we don't want to be like the Europeans."

He's pandering to the geriatrics who remember when Europe dissed the US big time --like back when de Toqueville was published.

:0

239 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:25:03pm

Newt Gingrich could solve the Dutch problem, if only government would get out of the way.

240 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:25:14pm

Wow apparently even Buchanan thinks the Republicans are going too far on birth control.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

241 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:25:55pm

OT: Huntsman says US needs 3d party and GOP out of ideas.

“Gone are the days when the Republican Party used to put forward big, bold, visionary stuff,” he said during an appearance on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

“I think we’re gonna have problems politically until we get some sort of third-party movement or some alternative voice out there that can put forward new ideas,” he added.

Continuing with his rebuke of the status quo on Capitol Hill, he said: “I am looking at the political marketplace and I am saying this duopoly is tired and we’re stuck in a rut.”

Me: I sense some MBF in there, but he's right that the GOP is out of ideas. He could have gone further to note that the GOP is left with little more than a xenophobic and misogynistic message.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:27:08pm

re: #222 ggt

There are those in Alaska who want to secede. I say, let them. If they want our Military protection against The Greater Powers to the East -- they'll shut up.

Hey, if they want to secede they should not make life hard for all Alaskans. I say, let them swim to the Behring island, which they of course count as a US territory, and secede with that island (after, of course, they find all their body parts after an encounter with Russian border patrol ships).

243 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:27:19pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Buchanan transcribed in that article:

I think if you get down into where [Santorum's] been discussing it on the merits and demerits of contraception…that’s a moral issue. [...] We talked about that in college endlessly, but I think you move into an area where people don’t understand yet and where it’s beyond the political realm. And I think that’s where Santorum has gone and gotten himself. He’s gotten himself tied up in some of these arguments, and I don’t think he’s handled them with clarity.

The problem is people just don't understand yet.

Santorum is just ahead of us.

Except for Newt Gingrich, of course.

244 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:27:23pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Wow apparently even Buchanan thinks the Republicans are going too far on birth control.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Pat sees the writing on the wall. He's a political bigot, but not a stupid one.

245 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:28:32pm

re: #242 Peanut Gallery

Hey, if they want to secede they should not make life hard for all Alaskans. I say, let them swim to the Behring island, which they of course count as a US territory, and secede with that island (after, of course, they find all their body parts after an encounter with Russian border patrol ships).

I'm good with that.

:0

246 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:30:07pm

re: #17 Lidane

So basically, abstinence-only fantasies work before kids hit puberty, but once they're teenagers, it's a horrible failure?

Naw, it works for a small percentage of teens, sort of. Of those who abstain many still have sex (as you or I would define it), they just don't do vaginal penetration. Oral and anal sex don't count because you are still a "virgin" afterwords and don't have to worry about pregnancy.

Of course the problem is that in reality this is still unprotected sex and STD clusters keep showing up amongst these "virginal" youth.

Anal sex is apparently becoming quite popular as a teen alternative to the evil, sinful, baby-making, vaginal sex acts in the more conservative areas of the country.

I suppose Congratulations are in order to the retarded "Christian" right-wing? They have harped about the evils of normal straight sex for so long and to such an extent that some teens are now routinely practicing sodomy rather than taint themselves with the use of contraceptives or the "consummation" of vaginal penetration.

Sigh...of course sodomy is, according to the bible, a sin punishable by death by stoning, just as sex outside of marriage is, there really is no difference biblically.

I suppose that it is that one sexual act has been vilified and preached against for decades (vaginal intercourse) while the other has been ignored because it is too "perverse" (according to whom?) to talk about with teens (anal intercourse).

Lol at "christian teen sodomy" for abstinence!!!

247 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:30:22pm

re: #236 HappyWarrior

Yeah I've seen that. What a condescending jackass he is.

Imagine if there was some European politician that made a speech talking about "we don't want to be like the Americans"? Most Americans would be offended. That might be fine if you're running for mayor but it sure isn't very presidential.

248 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:31:38pm

re: #235 freetoken

Yeah, the Dutch. With whom we have hardly had any issues during our entire history.

If there are two things I can't stand, its people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:31:53pm

Gallup: Contraception Debate divides a nation.

We have to start a National Viagra Debate.

250 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:32:36pm

re: #247 Gus

Imagine if there was some European politician that made a speech talking about "we don't want to be like the Americans"? Most Americans would be offended. That might be fine if you're running for mayor but it sure isn't very presidential.

Yeah I know. That's not the mark of a statesman. If he had said, we're different from Europe that would be one thing but this condescending attitude showed isn't presidential at all.

251 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:32:38pm

re: #243 freetoken

Buchanan transcribed in that article:


The problem is people just don't understand yet.

Santorum is just ahead of us.

Except for Newt Gingrich, of course.

Gingrich is not ahead of us to lead. He ran a few steps ahead in order to drop trou and moon the US.
/

252 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:33:01pm

re: #248 Kragar

If there are two things I can't stand, its people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

It was an Englishman who said that though. Still love that qhote though heh.

253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:34:01pm

re: #252 HappyWarrior

It was an Englishman who said that though. Still love that qhote though heh.

you like your 'h's' don't you?

:0

254 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:35:18pm

re: #253 ggt

you like your 'h's' don't you?

:0

I guess. It's unconscious though. Like the time I criticized Gertrude Stein's writing style in an essay and was doing exactly what I was critical of- repetition.

255 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:35:40pm

re: #241 lawhawk

OT: Huntsman says US needs 3d party and GOP out of ideas.

Me: I sense some MBF in there, but he's right that the GOP is out of ideas. He could have gone further to note that the GOP is left with little more than a xenophobic and misogynistic message.

Party change coming up!

Huntsman is going to get nowhere fast running for the Republican nomination in 2016, and I'd bet dollars to donuts he's had more positive feedback from Independents and Democrats than he has with the Republican base.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:35:42pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

I guess. It's unconscious though. Like the time I criticized Gertrude Stein's writing style in an essay and was doing exactly what I was critical of- repetition.

say again?

257 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:36:23pm

re: #255 BongCrodny

Party change coming up!

He's going to get nowhere fast running for the Republican nomination in 2016, and I'd bet dollars to donuts he's had more positive feedback from Independents and Democrats than he has with the Republican base.

My Democratic and more sane Republican Friends said he was the only sane one on the debate panels.

258 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:36:31pm

re: #256 ggt

say again?

I had to read Melanathia, this short story by Gertrude Stein and respond to it. I didn't like her writing style as she uses repetition a ton and I wrote as much in my essay.

259 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:37:10pm

re: #258 HappyWarrior

I had to read Melanathia, this short story by Gertrude Stein and respond to it. I didn't like her writing style as she uses repetition a ton and I wrote as much in my essay.

now you are repeating yourself.

:0

260 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:37:50pm

It's really sad that Huntsman was polling lower than Bachmann. I mean look at it this way. Here's a two term governor, speaks Mandarin, understands foreign policy, and is likable enough doing poorly against two term Congresswoman who has made her reputation on just hating everything Obama does and opposing it.

261 BeenHereAwhile  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:37:58pm

re: #101 Daniel Ballard

The biggest thing wrong with Jeb is his brother. Which in a rational world would not matter. But the far away lefty moonbats will forever put him in that tiny box of perceptions both legit and those irrational Galloway-esque hyperbolics.

I have a lot of respect for JEB Bush, and believe that if he had been elected POTUS rather than his brother George, our country would be in less of a mess today.

Google "The ol he coon walks just before the light of day." and you'll learn about the speech by Lawton Childs, which is generally believed to cost JEB the election in his first run for governor of Florida in 1994.

So brother George was elected Texas governor before JEB in Florida. George got the Bush family nod to run for POTUS.

262 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:38:22pm

re: #259 ggt

now you are repeating yourself.

:0

Damnit! But yeah see.

263 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:38:26pm

"If God wanted you to have sex, he wouldn't have given you a limp dick.

You must have been a real man-slut, he is punishing you."

How is that logic?

264 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:38:28pm

re: #257 ggt

My Democratic and more sane Republican Friends said he was the only sane one on the debate panels.

The only problem is that he did his own fair share of Obama-bashing while he was running.

But he's got four years to make people forget about that.

265 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:39:14pm

re: #249 ggt

Gallup: Contraception Debate divides a nation.

We have to start a National Viagra Debate.

WTF Gallup? Asking who do people "sympathize" with, "religious leaders" or "Obama administration"? Ridiculous, stupid premise to the whole poll in the first place. Why on earth didn't they ask whether people agreed with the policy or not? Or agreed with whether religious institutions have the right to deny any coverage they want if it offends their beliefs?

It's almost as if they push-polled this question to generate responses as sympathetic to the religious nutters as possible.

266 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:39:25pm

re: #264 BongCrodny

The only problem is that he did his own fair share of Obama-bashing while he was running.

But he's got four years to make people forget about that.

Remember when Politicans didn't bash each other like that. It was considered poor sportsmanship?

Yeah, me neither.

267 Coracle  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:39:29pm

Saw an excellent tweet the other day. - Chose Romney for the WIlliam Gibson apocalypse. Choose Santorum for the Margaret Atwood apocalypse.

268 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:40:40pm

re: #263 ggt

"If God wanted you to have sex, he wouldn't have given you a limp dick.

You must have been a real man-slut, he is punishing you."

How is that logic?

And, really it would work the same for infertility treatments.

You must have done something wrong and God is punishing you. Go adopt.

269 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:41:24pm

I'm getting foggy again.

going back to bed.

curs-ed virus.

270 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:42:12pm

re: #267 Coracle

Saw an excellent tweet the other day. - Chose Romney for the WIlliam Gibson apocalypse. Choose Santorum for the Margaret Atwood apocalypse.

I'd choose Newt for the "Hell Comes to Frogtown" apocalypse.

271 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:42:41pm

Insanity Break!!!

Youtube Video
272 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:42:45pm

re: #267 Coracle

I feel like Romney would go more Snow Crash, which is pretty Gibsonian but without cool AI, less transcendental and more gritty entrepreneurship.

273 Coracle  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:43:04pm

re: #268 ggt

And, really it would work the same for infertility treatments.

You must have done something wrong and God is punishing you. Go adopt.

That's right. Erectile dysfunction is God's way of opening a place in your household for a baby saved from abortion.

274 Coracle  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:44:57pm

re: #272 Obdicut

I feel like Romney would go more Snow Crash, which is pretty Gibsonian but without cool AI, less transcendental and more gritty entrepreneurship.

Snow Crash was a lot funnier, though. And when are going to get wheels like that?

275 Coracle  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:45:43pm

re: #270 BongCrodny

I'd choose Newt for the "Hell Comes to Frogtown" apocalypse.

I kinda wonder if Newt would consider that an apocalypse.

276 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:50:04pm

This story has been making the usual rounds. I ignored it because the antiMuslim and wingnut blogs usually lie about this kind of thing. Here's an MSM report. It does seem pretty outrageous.
ABC 27 covers the story of the zombie Mohammed court case

Youtube Video
277 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:51:14pm

re: #270 BongCrodny

I'd choose Newt for the "Hell Comes to Frogtown" apocalypse.

HOT ROD!

278 Coracle  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:54:46pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

If the facts of this case are as the cop says, then the judge was in the wrong. It's an assault, straight up.

279 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:56:15pm

re: #277 windupbird is in the gravity well

HOT ROD!

Oh, you mean this...

Youtube Video
280 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:56:32pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

This story has been making the usual rounds. I ignored it because the antiMuslim and wingnut blogs usually lie about this kind of thing. Here's an MSM report. It does seem pretty outrageous.
ABC 27 covers the story of the zombie Mohammed court case

[Embedded content]

We've discussed it here yesterday and sternly condemned the judge.

;)

281 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:56:47pm

re: #278 Coracle

If the facts of this case are as the cop says, then the judge was in the wrong. It's an assault, straight up.

The judge is not only wrong, but deserves to be kicked off the bench.

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:57:16pm

In the Nutz!

283 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:57:43pm

re: #278 Coracle

If the facts of this case are as the cop says, then the judge was in the wrong. It's an assault, straight up.

Normally I would assume there was more to the story. The statement from the cop and the defendant's lawyer make me think this is really fucked up. Sounds like a case for the ACLU. That judge needs to go.

284 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:00:08pm

re: #260 HappyWarrior

It's really sad that Huntsman was polling lower than Bachmann. I mean look at it this way. Here's a two term governor, speaks Mandarin, understands foreign policy, and is likable enough doing poorly against two term Congresswoman who has made her reputation on just hating everything Obama does and opposing it.

He's just way too smart to be acceptable to todays GOP.

285 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:11:45pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Normally I would assume there was more to the story. The statement from the cop and the defendant's lawyer make me think this is really fucked up. Sounds like a case for the ACLU. That judge needs to go.

Keep in mind that with simple harassment/ very low level assault you get verdicts like this. There were no injuries to provide evidence of harm. Just a minor scuffle. It is an important reminder that we do pay a high price for our freedom of speech. Like that hate brained bunch that protest at funerals. Or Nazi rallies.

Deliberately offending/provoking people is a pretty piss poor way to make your point, but it's as legal as it is stupid.

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:15:46pm

re: #285 Daniel Ballard

Keep in mind that with simple harassment/ very low level assault you get verdicts like this.

Well, it shouldn't be so, and certainly not with such reasoning.

287 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:18:27pm

re: #280 Peanut Gallery

We've discussed it here yesterday and sternly condemned the judge.

;)

Well, you and I did, anyway. I don't think anyone pays attention when we cuddle. Probably for the best.

288 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:19:53pm

re: #287 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, you and I did, anyway. I don't think anyone pays attention when we cuddle. Probably for the best.

It's all good. I'm not ashamed.
/

289 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:21:21pm

re: #286 Peanut Gallery

Well, it shouldn't be so, and certainly not with such reasoning.

It's expedient which sucks. Clears the docket. But remember the DA will have a file on those involved. if this muslin man loses his temper again he has an arrest record. I can only hope this brush with the law will teach him a little restraint. Actually, IMO anyway both could use a dab of that. As confrontations go this remains a nearly harmless incident.

290 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:23:38pm

re: #285 Daniel Ballard

Keep in mind that with simple harassment/ very low level assault you get verdicts like this. There were no injuries to provide evidence of harm. Just a minor scuffle. It is an important reminder that we do pay a high price for our freedom of speech. Like that hate brained bunch that protest at funerals. Or Nazi rallies.

Deliberately offending/provoking people is a pretty piss poor way to make your point, but it's as legal as it is stupid.

I think the dismissal of the case isn't as disturbing as the post verdict lecture.

291 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:24:13pm

re: #289 Daniel Ballard

- So what does that teach us, kids?
- Attacking atheists who engage in speech we find offensive will remain unpunished.
- Good. Class dismissed.

292 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:26:53pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

It seems no one attacked his buddy in the zombie pope suit. Just sayin'.

293 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 2:34:02pm

[Link: www.bluevirginia.us...]
OT but this is hilarious. I did some canvassing for Albo's opponent last year even.

294 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 3:06:18pm

Groovy. I finally debugged that regular expression for matching URLs in a comment, that I mentioned above.

The problem occurred if you had an HTML-formatted link like this one, followed by a bare text link like this one:

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

Followed by another HTML-formatted link.

If it really is debugged all the links in this comment will work...

295 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 3:10:02pm

And by the way, this should also fix the problem several people have noticed where embedding MP3s in comments or Pages would sometimes just show the text of the URL instead of the MP3 player.

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 3:11:21pm

re: #294 Charles Johnson

Charles, while you're in a debugging mode: I noticed that in the Spy in the green boxes with ding-info the unicode chars are still broken up. E.g. bsharp's smiley in the next thread looks like "(͡๏̯͡๏ ;)" instead of "(͡๏̯͡๏)". Also, is it also possible to add hover to these boxes?

297 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 3:21:58pm

re: #296 Peanut Gallery

Charles, while you're in a debugging mode: I noticed that in the Spy in the green boxes with ding-info the unicode chars are still broken up. E.g. bsharp's smiley in the next thread looks like "(͡๏̯͡๏ ;)" instead of "(͡๏̯͡๏)". Also, is it also possible to add hover to these boxes?

Also, those green boxes still use the "link" terminology instead of the "Page" terminology.

298 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 3:35:51pm

Yeah, I know there are some loose ends in the Spy, after the display name features were added. On the list.

299 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 3:40:45pm

You know what? FUCK THE GOP! Fuck those woman hating bastards. Everyone of them. In my home state of Texas, the GOP is set to kill a program that funds preventative care and contraception for thousands of poor and low income women because the Federal Govt which funds 90% of the program allows these women to go to Planned Parenthood to get services. Half of the women who come to the clinic where I work for OB/GYN services are on this program. We may have to close are OB/GYN department. If I were that little boy in that old Twilight Zone episode, I'd wish everyone elected GOP official into the corn field. Without finding for an annual pap smear they have literally told these women to drop dead. If I had the power I would tell them to do the same. I have been offended to the core of my being by these people.


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