When Pat Buchanan Looks Like the Sane One, the GOP Is in Deep Trouble

Too far out there for Pat
Wingnuts • Views: 35,588

Pat Buchanan: voice of reason.

Wait, what?

Youtube Video

I think if you get down into where [Santorum’s] been discussing it on the merits and demerits of contraception…that’s a moral issue. […] We talked about that in college endlessly, but I think you move into an area where people don’t understand yet and where it’s beyond the political realm. And I think that’s where Santorum has gone and gotten himself. He’s gotten himself tied up in some of these arguments, and I don’t think he’s handled them with clarity.

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539 comments
1 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:27:58pm

He sure talks a lot for being silenced.

2 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:28:33pm
... but I think you move into an area where people don’t understand yet and where it’s beyond the political realm.

The problem, according to Pat, is just that we don't understand yet where Santorum wants to take us.

I guess we're just the troglodytes, eh?

3 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:31:24pm

A week ago or so he went into a conspiratorial rant about how liberals (and others) destroyed his career. "I'm finished!" One week later liberals are all saying to each other "could you believe what Pat Buchanan said?"

4 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:31:25pm

re: #1 marjoriemoon

He sure talks a lot for being silenced.

CENSORSHIP!

5 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:34:28pm

Pat's a fun gi.

6 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:34:47pm
I think you move into an area where people don’t understand yet

I think Pat reveals his leadership technique here. The true leader, in his view, doesn't let the people know where he really want to take them, because some of them might not agree with him that he's acting in their best interest.

7 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:35:33pm

re: #1 marjoriemoon

Thread won on the first comment. Well done.

8 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:37:17pm

re: #5 austin_blue

Pat's a fun gi.

Can we dress him up like David Lee Roth?

Like someone did with Newt Gingrich in a previous thread.

9 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:38:57pm

"I don’t think he’s handled them with clarity." Notice that he isn't saying that Santorum is wrong, just that he's going about his argument in the wrong way....

10 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:39:26pm

re: #8 Gus

Can we dress him up like David Lee Roth?

Like someone did with Newt Gingrich in a previous thread.

Pat's got more of a Gwar thing going on.

11 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:39:27pm

re: #9 jamesfirecat

And when he says 'clarity' he means the opposite.

12 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:40:45pm

Has the Republican Party become somewhat Nihilistic in their view of America. Jaundiced perhaps? Cynical?

13 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:44:49pm

To take that question we go to Nigel.

//

14 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:45:34pm

re: #10 Kragar

Pat's got more of a Gwar thing going on.

Hans Sphincter? I fucking knew it!

15 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:45:49pm

"Is Mr. Gingrich more of a David Lee Roth type of person rather than Pat Buchanan who is said to be more like a GWAR action figure?"

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:46:56pm

Some Christian groups have a problem with birth control, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with rock and roll, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with dancing, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with alcohol, some don't.

Usually there is an underlying theology or philosophy that can explain why for that group.

17 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:47:39pm

Hey, Pat has been very clear that we should mount up and ride to "the sounds of the guns" to defend our Democracy.

Which can be awkward, because the shooting is pre-recorded and stashed in various dog-whistles that Pat and his cronies have hidden in the body politic.

18 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:49:53pm

re: #16 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Some Christian groups have a problem with birth control, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with rock and roll, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with dancing, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with alcohol, some don't.

Usually there is an underlying theology or philosophy that can explain why for that group.

We deists are like honey badgers. We just don't give a shit.

19 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:51:48pm

re: #12 Gus

Has the Republican Party become somewhat Nihilistic in their view of America. Jaundiced perhaps? Cynical?

Depends on who you're talking to or what you're talking about...

When talking to Real Americans: "This is the best country EVAR!"

When you're talking about Bygone Days: "Golden Age of sweetness, light, prosperity, and plenty".

When you're talking about our gov't in this Modern Age: "Holy shit, son. We're all gonna die in Gulags!!!"

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:52:10pm

re: #2 freetoken

The problem, according to Pat, is just that we don't understand yet where Santorum wants to take us.

I guess we're just the troglodytes, eh?

I understand fine.

Seen it before.

Ain't going.

21 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:52:14pm

Pat's making a strategic argument, not a principled one. He really sees nothing wrong with Rick Santorum's Neanderthal ideas, it's just not the right situation yet for Pat.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:53:34pm

re: #16 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Some Christian groups have a problem with birth control, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with rock and roll, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with dancing, some don't.

Some Christian groups have a problem with alcohol, some don't.

Usually there is an underlying theology or philosophy that can explain why for that group.

Because we are America, they all forge along their separate paths, dancing, drinking, and family planning or not, literally as the spirit moves them.

23 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:53:51pm

re: #2 freetoken

The problem, according to Pat, is just that we don't understand yet where Santorum wants to take us.

I guess we're just the troglodytes, eh?

Shorter Buchanan and Santorum:

Image: mansplain.jpg

24 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:54:58pm

re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist

Because we are America, they all forge along their separate paths, dancing, drinking, and family planning or not, literally as the spirit moves them.

Except on Thanksgiving, when we all alike get together and give thanks that we can stuff ourselves silly...

25 Mocking Jay  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:55:01pm

This interview would've been a whole lot more interesting had he done it with a gag in his mouth.

26 Mocking Jay  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:57:28pm

Watching a documentary on MSNBC about pollution at Camp LeJeune and other bases linked to cancer. Yikes.

27 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:57:49pm

re: #16 To hold my temper, most of the time.

...there is an underlying theology or philosophy that can explain why for that group.

Being human. :)

28 allegro  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:59:17pm

As she so often does, Amanda Marcotte nails it...

Fighting the mansplaining anti-sex police

All that said, I want to be clear that it's not enough to be outraged at the anti-contraception shit and take it as a given that it's way out of bounds. I mean, it seems obvious that it is, but without an aggressive counterattack from the left, right wingers may gain ground in their attempts to redefine the over 99% of women in the country who have sex for fun and not just for procreation as sluts. We need to frame our arguments as a full-throated, unapologetic belief that sex is good, women are good, and women's right to enjoy sexual pleasure without shaming or government interference is good. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing enough of that. Instead, the most important argument---that a woman has a right to be a sexual creature and that sex is good---being abandoned by all sorts of liberals and feminists. The most common form this concession takes is well-meaning, and often person conceding the argument that women who have sex for pleasure are somehow less-than don't intend to concede it. But that's nonetheless what they're doing. That concession looks like this:

29 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:59:24pm
30 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:01:23pm

re: #29 Interesting Times

I thought about getting "THOR" tattooed on my penis, but there just wasn't enough room.

31 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:03:31pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

Pat's making a strategic argument, not a principled one. He really sees nothing wrong with Rick Santorum's Neanderthal ideas, it's just not the right situation yet for Pat.

Buchanan hates gay marriage, but he's actually recommended the GOP soften its hard line on the issue. He can see the trend: 15 years ago, no states even had civil unions, much less gay marriage. Now 20 states (plus DC) have one or the other. And you can add NY, WA, and MD in just the last few months to the marriage column.

Pat doesn't support gay rights at all, so there's no matter of principle in his newfound stand. Rather he realizes the GOP is losing the issue, and should focus energy elsewhere as a strategic move. Unlike abortion, where you can always throw out statistics on the number of "murdered babies", as fallacious as that might be, the argument over gay rights provides no such right wing bludgeon. As much as the right would have you believe that gay marriage will ruin society, there's simply no evidence or data suggesting any larger societal or smaller familial harm due to same sex marriage.

32 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:04:54pm

re: #30 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought about getting "THOR" tattooed on my penis, but there just wasn't enough room.

Just get a hammer and lightning bolt on your ass instead.

33 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:05:32pm

re: #30 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought about getting "THOR" tattooed on my penis, but there just wasn't enough room.

Try a smaller font. ;)

///

34 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:06:08pm

re: #30 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought about getting "THOR" tattooed on my penis, but there just wasn't enough room.

I guess that means "I HAVE A REALLY BIG COCK" is out of the question.

35 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:06:45pm

re: #28 allegro

Good comment in that link that relates to Buchanan's comment:

Just remember, those guys in that congressional hearing are not America. They aren’t even male America. Contraception polls very well and big majorities of the American public support the right of women to have a sex life.

They represent a minority that is concentrated in certain parts of the country, and they get elected in general by downplaying their condemnations of female sexuality. The Republicans are tanking in the polls right now because they’ve chosen to emphasize this issue.

36 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:08:22pm

Two interesting OpEds today in the NYT;

Brooks on tax policy (!!!):

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

And Krugman punches Romney a new asshole:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

37 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:09:06pm

Oooo gets a little racy here at night! O_o

38 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:09:57pm

re: #34 palomino

I guess that means "I HAVE A REALLY BIG COCK" is out of the question.

How did that get by the censors?

//

39 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:13:36pm

re: #38 Gus

How did that get by the censors?

//

Try saying cock on AOL or Yahoo, and you'll get erased. But call any of the Obamas some form of monkey or "ni66er" (how clever) and all is just fine. Sometimes those sites resemble free republic, and they don't seem to care.

40 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:13:53pm

re: #37 marjoriemoon

Oooo gets a little racy here at night! O_o

It did almost get a little masochistic in the past thread. Not an invite to down ding him here. I thought he was almost being funny for once.

41 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:14:13pm

re: #39 palomino

Try saying cock on AOL or Yahoo, and you'll get erased. But call any of the Obamas some form of monkey or "ni66er" (how clever) and all is just fine. Sometimes those sites resemble free republic, and they don't seem to care.

Priorities!

42 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:15:47pm

re: #28 allegro

As she so often does, Amanda Marcotte nails it...

Fighting the mansplaining anti-sex police

That's actually bothered me a great deal as well.

As much as the Pill is being framed as a health issue by PP and others, and it is used as a way to control certain health issues AND important for that reason, that wasn't its initial purpose. Birth control means a great deal to a lot of women. One reason being that we can enjoy sex without worrying about pregnancy.

We need to frame our arguments as a full-throated, unapologetic belief that sex is good,

Now come on, that's pretty funny.

43 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:16:36pm

And whatever you do don't let people see pictures of people (civilians or soldiers) in how they are mutilated by war.

44 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:16:54pm

re: #40 Gus

It did almost get a little masochistic in the past thread. Not an invite to down ding him here. I thought he was almost being funny for once.

I saw that, but didn't get it.

45 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:17:11pm

re: #37 marjoriemoon

Oooo gets a little racy here at night! O_o

It's late. And the average woman's murdering uterus has been in the news, you may have noticed. I think it's just a testosterone backlash.

Besides, dick is funny word. Like piscatorial. Or mastication.

The key to understanding men is that we are all 17 years old.

46 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:17:36pm

re: #44 marjoriemoon

I saw that, but didn't get it.

Probably wants a tighty-righty topic so he can argue and get swarmed.

47 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:18:02pm

"It's like Gary Coleman's forearm!"

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:20:15pm

re: #34 palomino

I guess that means "I HAVE A REALLY BIG COCK" is out of the question.

Oh, no. I do have a really big cock. I mean, as chickens go, he's a big fucker.
/

49 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:20:38pm

re: #45 austin_blue

It's late. And the average woman's murdering uterus has been in the news, you may have noticed. I think it's just a testosterone backlash.

Besides, dick is funny word. Like piscatorial. Or mastication.

The key to understanding men is that we are all 17 years old.

I don't know about you guys but I get talked down to by my parents for how I like to masticate in public all the time. ;)

50 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:21:31pm

re: #48 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, no. I do have a really big cock. I mean, as chickens go, he's a big fucker.
/

Wait. We're talking about water valves right?

//

51 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:21:41pm

Current.com D.C. correspondent David Shuster calls right-wing blogger Andrew Breitbart a hypocrite for his silence on the subject of the rape allegation facing his conservative activist protégé James O’Keefe:
[Link: current.com...]

52 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:21:45pm

re: #43 Gus

And whatever you do don't let people see pictures of people (civilians or soldiers) in how they are mutilated by war.

I think that's a lesson learned from Vietnam, for better or worse.

53 What, me worry?  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:23:49pm

re: #45 austin_blue

It's late. And the average woman's murdering uterus has been in the news, you may have noticed. I think it's just a testosterone backlash.

Besides, dick is funny word. Like piscatorial. Or mastication.

The key to understanding men is that we are all 17 years old.

I'll give ya'll a 12-17 year old range, depending.

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:24:07pm

re: #50 Gus

In that case, I also have a really tiny cock. The wee little pit-cock on the bottom of my Honda's radiator.

55 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:24:10pm

re: #52 palomino

I think that's a lesson learned from Vietnam, for better or worse.

For better. It has to hurt.

56 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:24:26pm

re: #50 Gus

Wait. We're talking about water valves right?

//

In the oil field they're called "nipples". As in "Y'all need to nipple up that flow line so can get some water samples."

57 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:25:35pm

re: #54 Slumbering Behemoth

In that case, I also have a really tiny cock. The wee little pit-cock on the bottom of my Honda's radiator.

Proceed to hold the ball-cock unit firmly with both hands and make three (3) counterclockwise rotational turns around the axis. (Fig. D).

Slide.

58 Achilles Tang  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:25:37pm
.....and I don’t think he’s handled them with clarity.

meaning,

...and I don't think he has handled them with the right spin.

59 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:26:02pm

re: #39 palomino

Try saying cock on AOL or Yahoo, and you'll get erased. But call any of the Obamas some form of monkey or "ni66er" (how clever) and all is just fine. Sometimes those sites resemble free republic, and they don't seem to care.

Cock no good.

60 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:26:15pm

As an example of how religious fervor does indeed trump pretty much anything else, I offer an update to the Adam and Eve question.

Several fundamentalist-leaning Presbyterian churches around the country are now inserting the requirement for a literal Adam and Eve into their doctrine:

Adam and Eve historicity debate enters the Associate Reformed Presbyterian courts

Savannah River Presbytery asks for affirmation of the following statements:

"That Adam and Eve were created, body and soul, by immediate acts of Almighty power..."

"That Adam’s body was directly fashioned by Almighty God, without any natural animal parentage of any kind, out of matter previously created

Rocky Mountain Presbytery asks for the following similar statements:

That Adam and Eve were created, body and soul, by immediate acts of Almighty power, thereby preserving a perfect race unity;

That Adam’s body was directly fashioned by Almighty God, without any natural animal parentage of any kind, out of matter previously created from nothing.

On February 18 the Session of Midlane Park Presbyterian (ARP) in Louisville, Kentucky adopted a memorial (the ARP title for what other churches call an overture) on the same topic. [...]

WHEREAS, the theory of evolution is a source of much debate and confusion in society, educational institutions, and churches today,

WHEREAS, the historicity of Adam has come under attack not only from secular groups and liberal churches, but also from professed evangelical individuals and institutions,

WHEREAS, the Old Testament Scriptures plainly teach that Adam and Eve, as the first man and woman, were the special creation of God, being made in His image (Gen. 1:27; 2:7,22),

WHEREAS, [...]

WHEREAS, [...]

THEREFORE, be it resolved that the Session of Midlane Park Presbyterian Church requests that Mississippi Valley Presbytery hereby memorialize the General Synod of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church to adopt the following affirmations and denials:

1) We affirm that Adam and Eve were special, unique, direct creations of God, created in His image, with Adam being formed from the dust of the ground and Eve being made from his side; as such, they were real human beings and the first man and woman,

2) We affirm that the account of creation as found in Genesis 1 and 2 is history;

3) We deny any teaching that claims that the account of creation as found in Genesis
1 and 2 is mythology;

4) We deny any theory that teaches that Adam and Eve descended from other biological life forms and that such a theory can be reasonably reconciled with either the Standards of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church or Holy Scripture.

And so forth.

In other words, when presented with additional evidence, these people double down on literalism by inserting language into their formal doctrines calling for it.

They are doing this because some self-professed evangelicals such as Francis Collins have been pushing the idea that genetics clearly shows that everyone did not descend from just two humans, 6000 years ago or even 70,000 years ago.

This is America.

This is Santorum's America.

61 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:27:09pm

re: #59 College is GOOD you asshat.

Cock no good.

I always wanted to be in the cock pit.

... ..

62 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:27:40pm

Remember now. It's still Friday night. Carry on.

63 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:28:33pm

re: #51 jaunte

Oh, that's new.

So that little slime is a plausible sex offender. Somehow, doesn't surprise me.

64 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:30:27pm

Heh:

65 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:30:48pm

re: #60 freetoken

As an example of how religious fervor does indeed trump pretty much anything else, I offer an update to the Adam and Eve question.

Rocky Mountain Presbytery asks for the following similar statements:

On February 18 the Session of Midlane Park Presbyterian (ARP) in Louisville, Kentucky adopted a memorial (the ARP title for what other churches call an overture) on the same topic. [...]

And so forth.

In other words, when presented with additional evidence, these people double down on literalism by inserting language into their formal doctrines calling for it.

They are doing this because some self-professed evangelicals such as Francis Collins have been pushing the idea that genetics clearly shows that everyone did not descend from just two humans, 6000 years ago or even 70,000 years ago.

This is America.

This is Santorum's America.

Break out the banjos folks we're all cousins!

66 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:31:08pm

re: #55 Gus

For better. It has to hurt.

It's hard to maintain public support for a war when lots of grisly images are broadcast everywhere. On the other hand, the citizens fighting in and paying for the war have a right to info about what's going on. A delicate balance that gives me mixed feelings.

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:31:50pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

And so forth.

Break out the banjos folks we're all cousins!

In that case, would you mind giving Grandma's rocking chair back to Aunt Lou? Thanks.

68 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:32:24pm

re: #66 palomino

It's hard to maintain public support for a war when lots of grisly images are broadcast everywhere. On the other hand, the citizens fighting in and paying for the war have a right to info about what's going on. A delicate balance that gives me mixed feelings.

People should have an option as to whether to view that imagery or not though. That's a given. My prescription would be to show. But.

69 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:32:53pm

"Or" not. Not "of" not.

70 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:34:23pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

This appears to be an issue on my dad's side of the family, in all seriousness.

71 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:34:43pm

re: #60 freetoken

As an example of how religious fervor does indeed trump pretty much anything else, I offer an update to the Adam and Eve question.

Several fundamentalist-leaning Presbyterian churches around the country are now inserting the requirement for a literal Adam and Eve into their doctrine:

Adam and Eve historicity debate enters the Associate Reformed Presbyterian courts

Rocky Mountain Presbytery asks for the following similar statements:

On February 18 the Session of Midlane Park Presbyterian (ARP) in Louisville, Kentucky adopted a memorial (the ARP title for what other churches call an overture) on the same topic. [...]

And so forth.

In other words, when presented with additional evidence, these people double down on literalism by inserting language into their formal doctrines calling for it.

They are doing this because some self-professed evangelicals such as Francis Collins have been pushing the idea that genetics clearly shows that everyone did not descend from just two humans, 6000 years ago or even 70,000 years ago.

This is America.

This is Santorum's America.

But what about the Nephelim?!?!?

1. When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
2. The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
3. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
4. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

They sound like Greek Demi-gods to me (harumph harumph). But it's in the Bible so it must be true.

72 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:34:47pm

re: #57 Gus

That's from one of them fancy romance novels, ain't it?

73 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:35:42pm

re: #72 Slumbering Behemoth

That's from one of them fancy romance novels, ain't it?

Yep. It's built around a character played by Richard Trethewey.

//

74 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:36:15pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

MP3 Audio
75 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:36:42pm
76 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:38:27pm

re: #64 Lidane

Heh:

Stadium started packed but Romney downsized the crowd before flipping it for big payday #leveragedbuyout

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) February 25, 2012

I can't believe it, but I'm starting to think Obama will win in Nov. unless the economy goes double dip or some bombshell in the media devastates him.

Romney just excites no one. And the other gop candidates are too flawed and/or extreme to win a general election. Romney could win as the acceptable alternative were Obama to suddenly drop in approval ratings. But Romney won't win this outright due to his popularity or dynamism.

77 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:40:41pm

re: #76 palomino

Heh:

Stadium started packed but Romney downsized the crowd before flipping it for big payday #leveragedbuyout

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) February 25, 2012

I can't believe it, but I'm starting to think Obama will win in Nov. unless the economy goes double dip or some bombshell in the media devastates him.

Romney just excites no one. And the other gop candidates are too flawed and/or extreme to win a general election. Romney could win as the acceptable alternative were Obama to suddenly drop in approval ratings. But Romney won't win this outright due to his popularity or dynamism.

Beware a brokered convention. We could end up with Jeb.

Another Bush please! We deserve it!

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:41:02pm

re: #60 freetoken

WHEREAS, the historicity of Adam has come under attack not only from secular groups and liberal churches, but also from professed evangelical individuals and institutions,

What, are these people new to planet Earth or something? The "historicity" of such fables have been under "attack" from the very moment they were written by humans.

The fact that people do not see such fables as historically accurate is not at all a new phenomenon.

79 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:41:20pm

re: #75 Lidane

Always worth the price of admission! She keeps me ALIVE!

//

BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:41:35pm

re: #71 austin_blue

And so forth.

In other words, when presented with additional evidence, these people double down on literalism by inserting language into their formal doctrines calling for it.

They are doing this because some self-professed evangelicals such as Francis Collins have been pushing the idea that genetics clearly shows that everyone did not descend from just two humans, 6000 years ago or even 70,000 years ago.

This is America.

This is Santorum's America.

But what about the Nephelim?!?!?

1. When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
2. The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
3. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
4. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

They sound like Greek Demi-gods to me (harumph harumph). But it's in the Bible so it must be true.

Oh, don't get some of the people out there started on the Nephilim. I have seen interpretations and applications of that verse that simply blow my mind.

My all time favorite, I suppose, although I just want to hug this girl and tell her to stop hanging around with crazy people: My question is to resolve a debate between myself and another Bible studier. Could any of us be unknowingly walking around with Nephilim DNA and not know it? I don’t think so, but my friend disagrees…she is actually convinced that physically attractive, tall, well-built, intelligent people could be descendants of Nephilim. She has even suggested that my soon-to-be husband and myself are probably descended from Nephilim! Needless to say, this really freaks me out! I don’t want to worry that I have Nephilim DNA, or that my future husband may (we are both tall and athletically built and he is a handsome and mechanically brilliant man). Please, any insight at all would be tremendously helpful. I love my Jesus with all my heart and can’t bear the thought of being separated from God in eternity due to genetic circumstances beyond my control.

81 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:44:32pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

... therein lies the path to the Fourth Reich.

82 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:44:33pm

re: #77 austin_blue

Beware a brokered convention. We could end up with Jeb.

Another Bush please! We deserve it!

I can't even imagine what a brokered convention would look like. We might have to invent new words to describe the fail, especially if none of the current dipshits in the running got the nod.

Conventions are just supposed to be giant pep rallies and photo ops. They're not for any sort of actual debate. If the GOP went in that fractured it would be a disaster.

83 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:45:19pm

re: #71 austin_blue

They sound like Greek Demi-gods to me (harumph harumph). But it's in the Bible so it must be true.

The mythologies around the eastern Med apparently influenced each other. Much of the older parts of the OT were written by the remnants of the bronze age Canaanites after the great collapse of the bronze age civilizations, but the stories they used (and rewrote) were passed along from society to society. There is a great deal of connectedness between many myths.

It's an interesting question, looking at roughly four centers of these myths - Crete and the Minoans, the Aegean sea coastal areas, the Levant coastal areas, and the inland societies around the Mesopotamian. How much did they pass around to each other?

The OT writers claimed descent from the Mesopotamians (remember, Abraham came from Ur, one of the great old cities of Mesopotamia.) Perhaps they wanted to rewrite their history so they could hide from being labeled as Canaanites? Anyway, the OT writers kept the Canaanite deity El, and his consort (Asherah) and his court of magical beings. This is the same basic religion around the area.

So, when these contemporary American churches reaffirm these old stories, they are carrying on the bronze age cosmologies.

Even in light of the intervening 3000 years of human learning.

This is America.

84 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:45:24pm

re: #77 austin_blue

Beware a brokered convention. We could end up with Jeb.

Another Bush please! We deserve it!

In modern times, brokered conventions are usually bad for the party though. It would look like the GOP was saying, "We gave you 7 crappy candidates for a year and a half, and now at the last minute we're gonna pull this guy, who hasn't campaigned or debated, out of our ass. We're desperate."

Also we're not a monarchy. Three Bushes in just 20 years seems like family overload.

85 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:45:25pm

I've never been in a war. But I know what war is like from having read about WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Eventually you become the human centipede.

86 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:46:19pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, don't get some of the people out there started on the Nephilim. I have seen interpretations and applications of that verse that simply blow my mind.

My all time favorite, I suppose, although I just want to hug this girl and tell her to stop hanging around with crazy people: My question is to resolve a debate between myself and another Bible studier. Could any of us be unknowingly walking around with Nephilim DNA and not know it? I don’t think so, but my friend disagrees…she is actually convinced that physically attractive, tall, well-built, intelligent people could be descendants of Nephilim. She has even suggested that my soon-to-be husband and myself are probably descended from Nephilim! Needless to say, this really freaks me out! I don’t want to worry that I have Nephilim DNA, or that my future husband may (we are both tall and athletically built and he is a handsome and mechanically brilliant man). Please, any insight at all would be tremendously helpful. I love my Jesus with all my heart and can’t bear the thought of being separated from God in eternity due to genetic circumstances beyond my control.

Now see, that's just outstanding. Having angel DNA would separate you from God?

If ignorance is bliss, the people on the left half of the bell curve are ecstatically happy morons.

87 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:47:01pm

re: #82 Lidane

I can't even imagine what a brokered convention would look like. We might have to invent new words to describe the fail, especially if none of the current dipshits in the running got the nod.

Conventions are just supposed to be giant pep rallies and photo ops. They're not for any sort of actual debate. If the GOP went in that fractured it would be a disaster.

For who?

Heh.

88 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:47:36pm

I remember seeing the paintings of Adam & Eve with belly buttons.

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:47:41pm

re: #85 Gus

Gus is hammered. Fuck it, I'm taking off my pants.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:48:06pm

re: #81 Slumbering Behemoth

... therein lies the path to the Fourth Reich.

Therein lies the path to complete insanity.

I'm not sure where she got the idea that people descended from the Nephilim wouldn't be eligible for salvation, anyway. Where is THAT written?

They do seem to loom oddly large--pun intended--in some people's minds, for things that are around for a couple of verses and it's not at all clear if they're people or angels or what the hell they are, and who are never referenced again, except for possible one tangential connection later when the word 'giants' comes up again, referring to the obviously human inhabitants of Canaan.

91 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:48:14pm

re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth

Gus is hammered. Fuck it, I'm taking off my pants.

You got it.

Tell him what you won Bob.

92 palomino  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:48:26pm

re: #85 Gus

I've never been in a war. But I know what war is like from having read about WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Eventually you become the human centipede.

Kudos for referencing the one horror film my wife refuses to see.

And especially creative to put it in a discussion about war, where superficially it seems inapplicable, but upon further review makes perfect sense.

93 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:48:27pm

re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth

Nephilim don't need any stinkin' pants.

94 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:48:57pm

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Therein lies the path to complete insanity.

I'm not sure where she got the idea that people descended from the Nephilim wouldn't be eligible for salvation, anyway. Where is THAT written?

They do seem to loom oddly large--pun intended--in some people's minds, for things that are around for a couple of verses and it's not at all clear if they're people or angels or what the hell they are, and who are never referenced again, except for possible one tangential connection later when the word 'giants' comes up again, referring to the obviously human inhabitants of Canaan.

Couldn't she just have her DNA tested to see if there's anything odd in there?

Would be worth the money for the peace of mind.

95 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:49:36pm

re: #92 palomino

Kudos for referencing the one horror film my wife refuses to see.

And especially creative to put it in a discussion about war, where superficially it seems inapplicable, but upon further review makes perfect sense.

I've always accepted death as a possibility.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:49:46pm

re: #93 jaunte

Nephilim don't need any stinkin' pants.

Given the probable time frame of all of this, wrap skirts seem most likely as menswear.

97 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:50:16pm

re: #83 freetoken

The mythologies around the eastern Med apparently influenced each other. Much of the older parts of the OT were written by the remnants of the bronze age Canaanites after the great collapse of the bronze age civilizations, but the stories they used (and rewrote) were passed along from society to society. There is a great deal of connectedness between many myths.

It's an interesting question, looking at roughly four centers of these myths - Crete and the Minoans, the Aegean sea coastal areas, the Levant coastal areas, and the inland societies around the Mesopotamian. How much did they pass around to each other?

The OT writers claimed descent from the Mesopotamians (remember, Abraham came from Ur, one of the great old cities of Mesopotamia.) Perhaps they wanted to rewrite their history so they could hide from being labeled as Canaanites? Anyway, the OT writers kept the Canaanite deity El, and his consort (Asherah) and his court of magical beings. This is the same basic religion around the area.

So, when these contemporary American churches reaffirm these old stories, they are carrying on the bronze age cosmologies.

Even in light of the intervening 3000 years of human learning.

This is America.

There's a great little tome called The Hidden Book in the Bible that expands on this concept. It's killer bee.

98 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:50:18pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Cargo kilts.

99 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:50:49pm

re: #87 austin_blue

For who?

Heh.

Well, not for Barack Obama, that's for damn sure. Haha.

Still, a brokered convention would cause the GOP to finally split, I think, between the religious bigots and wingnuts and the greedy corporate bastards who've been stringing them along for the last 40+ years to win elections. It would be entertaining for me, but for the GOP it would suck.

100 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:51:22pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

Cargo kilts.

So that's what you're modeling tonight.

Niles come here. Take a look at this.

101 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:52:25pm

re: #94 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Couldn't she just have her DNA tested to see if there's anything odd in there?

Would be worth the money for the peace of mind.

23andMe is about to get a competitor:

WDYTYA Reveals More Information About Ancestry.com’s New Autosomal DNA Testing

Ancestry.com used to do only limited testing - enough for genealogical issues. But they will be expanding.

The poor young women of whom SFZ wrote could get her DNA tested.

But then, she'd discover something even more horrifying than Nephilim DNA in her - she'd discover that she and chimpanzee are very similar, and that she even shares a good bit of genetic material with the broccoli she probably detests.

102 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:52:44pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

Cargo kilts.

Incidentally, they were a big hit among the proto-hipsters of Seattle in the early 90's.

I'm thinking: "But dude, it's really cold here. And very wet."

103 allegro  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:53:07pm

re: #99 Lidane

Well, not for Barack Obama, that's for damn sure. Haha.

Still, a brokered convention would cause the GOP to finally split, I think, between the religious bigots and wingnuts and the greedy corporate bastards who've been stringing them along for the last 40+ years to win elections. It would be entertaining for me, but for the GOP it would suck.

I would more compare it to lancing a particularly nasty boil. It would be messy and stinky but finally allow for healing once the pus has drained.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:53:43pm

re: #94 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Couldn't she just have her DNA tested to see if there's anything odd in there?

Would be worth the money for the peace of mind.

I'm kind of assuming that whatever this oddity might be, it's probably pretty thoroughly stirred into the human race by now. I mean, even accepting the 6,000-year-old earth, that's plenty of time for everyone to have a very slight bit of Nephil in their genetic makeup.

Now, if you could do a genetic test for it, that would be kind of cool, but it sounds as though some of the testees might need some serious counseling.

Me? "Huh, so I'm like a billionth fallen angel? Kind of cool. Now, are there actually any African genes in my husband's makeup, or is my MIL makin' that up to harass the elderly racists in the family?"

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:54:31pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

Cargo kilts.

"There were giants on the earth in those days. And they wore cargo kilts. And the daughters of men said "Whoa, sexy!"".

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:54:59pm

re: #102 Slumbering Behemoth

Incidentally, they were a big hit among the proto-hipsters of Seattle in the early 90's.

I'm thinking: "But dude, it's really cold here. And very wet."

It's also cold and wet in Scotland.

107 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:56:03pm

re: #97 austin_blue

There's a great little tome called The Hidden Book in the Bible that expands on this concept. It's killer bee.

You mean this one?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

There's been quite a bit of archeology done since that was written. Maybe some insights from documentary analyses also, but archeology seems to be progressing faster than updates to the Documentary hypothesis.

108 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:56:14pm

re: #99 Lidane

Well, not for Barack Obama, that's for damn sure. Haha.

Still, a brokered convention would cause the GOP to finally split, I think, between the religious bigots and wingnuts and the greedy corporate bastards who've been stringing them along for the last 40+ years to win elections. It would be entertaining for me, but for the GOP it would suck.

But I enjoy chaos! I live in the '04!

109 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:56:46pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

"There were giants on the earth in those days. And they wore cargo kilts. And the daughters of men said "Whoa, sexy!"".

Next week, on The Outer Nephilimits.

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:58:00pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

It's also cold and wet in Scotland.

Shit, you're right. Maybe those proto-hipsters were on to something.

111 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 8:59:31pm

re: #107 freetoken

You mean this one?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

There's been quite a bit of archeology done since that was written. Maybe some insights from documentary analyses also, but archeology seems to be progressing faster than updates to the Documentary hypothesis.

That's it. It posits that there were several authors that jumped over each other in the extant text. It would be really cool to get in Sherman's wayback machine and do some collecting...

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:00:09pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

"There were giants on the earth in those days. And they wore cargo kilts. And the daughters of men said "Whoa, sexy!"".

... and therein lies the origin of underwear.

113 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:06:32pm

re: #111 austin_blue

There are so many variants in the Documentary schools of thought... it's hard to grasp all of them.

If only we could read what little writing the Minoans left... and could also find enough Linear A writing to connect it to earlier and later writing.

It took almost 5000 years after the climate stabilized for humans to build societies durable enough to provide the economics to allow for specialists like scribes to start "History". I'm sure lots of interesting stuff went down in these societies, but we don't have any written records from them. It is becoming quite clear though that during the late neolithic many communities around Eurasia were interacting (we know this from relics they left us). I have no doubt that our collective consciences that have retained what we think of as being "human" reflects the experiences of this time, and that this covers much more than the Levant writings (such as the OT) with which we are left. So much has been lost, that could probably explain quite a bit.

114 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:07:12pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

It's also cold and wet in Scotland.

Yes, but the men are men and so are the women.

(Joke! The women of Scotland are a genetic mix of Picts, Celts, Vikings, and the odd Englishman in the woodpile. Just like any other race, there are beauties and the less fortunate. This explanation replaces sarc tags. Just for the fuck of it.)

115 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:16:13pm

re: #114 austin_blue

Yes, but the men are men and so are the women.

(Joke! The women of Scotland are a genetic mix of Picts, Celts, Vikings, and the odd Englishman in the woodpile. Just like any other race, there are beauties and the less fortunate. This explanation replaces sarc tags. Just for the fuck of it.)

So--it's only the men that get Nephilim mixed in?

116 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:25:45pm

Self Awareness Theater Presents:
Florida congressman Allen West upset at Obama for $70 fill-up of his Hummer

117 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:28:09pm

re: #113 freetoken

There are so many variants in the Documentary schools of thought... it's hard to grasp all of them.

If only we could read what little writing the Minoans left... and could also find enough Linear A writing to connect it to earlier and later writing.

It took almost 5000 years after the climate stabilized for humans to build societies durable enough to provide the economics to allow for specialists like scribes to start "History". I'm sure lots of interesting stuff went down in these societies, but we don't have any written records from them. It is becoming quite clear though that during the late neolithic many communities around Eurasia were interacting (we know this from relics they left us). I have no doubt that our collective consciences that have retained what we think of as being "human" reflects the experiences of this time, and that this covers much more than the Levant writings (such as the OT) with which we are left. So much has been lost, that could probably explain quite a bit.

Fascinating, isn't it? Surely language came first, among various allied groups. But the transformation from spoken word to writing had to first involve trade communication, and I think it certainly started as a hieroglyphic format before letters came to mean individual sounds of a voice. Anthropomorphizing animal actions became verbs. Turtles walked. Lizards ran. Lions attacked. Birds, with an arrow, flew forward or back. Eventually, alphabets replaced the unwieldy glyphs to be more specific.

This was still the case, orally, in the American west in transactions between the First Nations and Europeans. They had a common trade language before they had any form of written communication. Great stuff!

118 EdDantes  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:30:35pm

Buchanan sucks donkey dick.

119 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:32:34pm

re: #116 jaunte

Self Awareness Theater Presents:
Florida congressman Allen West upset at Obama for $70 fill-up of his Hummer

Image: umadbrah.jpg

120 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:34:44pm

re: #115 To hold my temper, most of the time.

So--it's only the men that get Nephilim mixed in?

The Nephilim, like Baby Jebuz, are in all of us. They permeate us with their grace. Amen.

121 jaunte  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:36:55pm

Scary Schumer head:

Dems Salivate Over Coming GOP Birth Control Misstep

122 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:37:51pm

re: #118 EdDantes

Buchanan sucks donkey dick.

Now, now, before you make such a spurious comment, you should have verifiable photographic evidence.

On the other hand, if you were to opine that "Pat Buchanan is an asshole", I doubt that the vast majority on this board would disagree. Context is everything.

123 Tigger2005  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:39:25pm

If Jesus can get the gay out of you, He can get the Nephilim out of you too, young lady.

124 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:39:50pm

re: #117 austin_blue

Fascinating, isn't it? Surely language came first, among various allied groups.

Well, "language", as we use that word commonly, certainly originated way back in the paleolithic. Large groups of hunter-gatherers would need language for cooperation.

We know that the oldest writing we have started off as accounting (of food.) The old Sumerians were bean counters! So, economics is the father of written language?

There are all sorts of artistic marks on very old objects, but were they a language with a grammar, or just brands? This is a question for those looking at the origin of writing in the far East, as Chinese glyphs predate the actual writing of a language, as far as we know.

Humans along the Indus used symbols, but know one knows if that was a real language.

The Mayans had a type of a language, but do the older scribbles from Incan ancestors count as writing too?

Anyway, the eastern Med was a hotspot of trading, as coastal hugging small ships would have been quite common for a long time, and modern humans had inhabited the area since leaving Africa, and older humans had been around there for a million years.

125 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:40:03pm

Nephilim designed this level of Angry Birds. It's the only explanation.

126 EdDantes  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:41:59pm

re: #122 austin_blue

"Pat Buchanan is an asshole"

127 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:42:21pm

The Dubliners - Song for Ireland

Youtube Video
128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:42:35pm

Stupid pigs.

129 Tigger2005  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:42:42pm

re: #121 jaunte

Scary Schumer head:

Dems Salivate Over Coming GOP Birth Control Misstep

The Republicans could probably win it all just by sending everybody that pic of Schumer...

130 Gus  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:42:47pm

Cheers.

131 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:43:55pm

I would think being Nephilim would be a good thing. My son's pinkie toes turn in towards his foot. Four grandson's from me, they won't have pinkie toes.

132 Tigger2005  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:46:18pm

re: #122 austin_blue

Now, now, before you make such a spurious comment, you should have verifiable photographic evidence.

On the other hand, if you were to opine that "Pat Buchanan is an asshole", I doubt that the vast majority on this board would disagree. Context is everything.

And nobody would ask for photographic evidence.

133 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:46:57pm

re: #124 freetoken

Well, "language", as we use that word commonly, certainly originated way back in the paleolithic. Large groups of hunter-gatherers would need language for cooperation.

We know that the oldest writing we have started off as accounting (of food.) The old Sumerians were bean counters! So, economics is the father of written language?

There are all sorts of artistic marks on very old objects, but were they a language with a grammar, or just brands? This is a question for those looking at the origin of writing in the far East, as Chinese glyphs predate the actual writing of a language, as far as we know.

Humans along the Indus used symbols, but know one knows if that was a real language.

The Mayans had a type of a language, but do the older scribbles from Incan ancestors count as writing too?

Anyway, the eastern Med was a hotspot of trading, as coastal hugging small ships would have been quite common for a long time, and modern humans had inhabited the area since leaving Africa, and older humans had been around there for a million years.

Agreed. I want Sherman's wayback machine! And a Bic lighter (Clarke's law).

134 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:49:09pm

re: #126 EdDantes

"Pat Buchanan is an asshole"

See? No donkey dicks involved and entirely appropriate.

135 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:53:03pm

re: #116 jaunte

Self Awareness Theater Presents:
Florida congressman Allen West upset at Obama for $70 fill-up of his Hummer

He's probably paying something closer to $90-$100 to fill up his tank in his district, which is still less per gallon than I pay in my area.

Still doesn't change the fact that the office POTUS doesn't confer the magical power to control the price of crude oil.

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:53:08pm

Awake again,

curs-ed virus.

How is everyone this evening?

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:57:05pm

Nephilim from the Wiki:

"The Nephilim (plural) are the offspring of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6:4, or giants who inhabit Canaan in Numbers 13:33. A similar word with different vowel-sounds is used in Ezekiel 32:27 to refer to dead Philistine warriors."

Reading the rest of it reminds me of the Silmarillion.

138 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:57:33pm

re: #116 jaunte

Self Awareness Theater Presents:
Florida congressman Allen West upset at Obama for $70 fill-up of his Hummer

He should take personal responsibility for buying a gas guzzler.
Lol, who am I kidding?

139 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 9:58:06pm

re: #133 austin_blue

Agreed. I want Sherman's wayback machine! And a Bic lighter (Clarke's law).

Ah, magic!

(However, Clarke had more than one law I believe.)

More than a Bic lighter (since fire had been used since the days of Erectus), a flashlight would be truly magical.

One of the areas of anthro/archeology that begs for more attention is reconstructing human settlements in southern Asia. Problem is, unlike the drier areas of SW Asia, the wetter and thus greener areas of South Asia present problems for retrieving evidence.

While burials and artifacts have been uncovered from Europe dating to before the last glacial maximum, similarly aged remnants from South Asia are nonexistent (as far as I know.) We know that humans were in the region (from evidence such as footprints), but finding skeletal remains, even teeth, is harder. Same for settlements.

The desertification of SW Asia post LGM helped to preserve the area. Same for northern Africa, but that is under explored because of modern political reasons. There is likely quite a bit of interesting stuff to be discovered in SW Egypt, Libya, and northern Sudan.

As far as I am concerned, one of the real crimes of contemporary education in America is the lack of teaching on human origins, which I assign to fear out of upsetting one group or another. The real story of Homo sapiens is just not taught, as near as I can tell, unless one takes a physical anthro course in college.

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:00:21pm

re: #138 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

He should take personal responsibility for buying a gas guzzler.
Lol, who am I kidding?

Why does one need a Hummer in Florida? Indeed in most of America? I mean, really, maybe in parts of Alaska or other areas with treacherous terrain, but Florida? Does it get you thru the swamp land safely?

141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:00:38pm

re: #138 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

He should take personal responsibility for buying a gas guzzler.
Lol, who am I kidding?

What? It costs nearly $70 to fill up my much more efficient mini van.

People who buy Hummers have always justified it with "I'll pay for the gas, so don't yell at me."

142 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:00:57pm

re: #140 ggt

Why does one need a Hummer in Florida? Indeed in most of America? I mean, really, maybe in parts of Alaska or other areas with treacherous terrain, but Florida? Does it get you thru the swamp land safely?

Alaska or Montana, maybe?

143 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:03:07pm

Gas will never be cheap again.
Them's the breaks.

144 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:04:06pm

re: #141 To hold my temper, most of the time.

What? It costs nearly $70 to fill up my much more efficient mini van.

People who buy Hummers have always justified it with "I'll pay for the gas, so don't yell at me."

And your minivan will require less fill ups than that hummer.

145 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:05:22pm

re: #143 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

Gas will never be cheap again.
Them's the breaks.

YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!YOU LIE!!

I know this because Newt Gingrich tells me how to get $2.50/gal gasoline:

Youtube Video
146 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:05:26pm

re: #143 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

Gas will never be cheap again.
Them's the breaks.

It will when engines no longer use it. Sooo, not in our lifetime.

147 Mocking Jay  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:05:35pm

re: #136 ggt

Awake again,

curs-ed virus.

How is everyone this evening?

I feel like I'm coming down with something. Been thirsty and throwing back water all day. Can LGF transmit viruses...?

148 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:09:10pm

re: #147 The Most Interesting Man in My World

I feel like I'm coming down with something. Been thirsty and throwing back water all day. Can LGF transmit viruses...?

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Borg Collective?

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:14:09pm

re: #147 The Most Interesting Man in My World

I feel like I'm coming down with something. Been thirsty and throwing back water all day. Can LGF transmit viruses...?

I guess this curs-ed 5 or 6 day virus is flourishing in the MidWest right now. Wait time at Urgent Care centers is long.

150 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:15:44pm

re: #149 ggt

I guess this curs-ed 5 or 6 day virus is flourishing in the MidWest right now. Wait time at Urgent Care centers is long.

You stay away from me.

151 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:18:38pm

I can't believe the liquor store raised the price of my regular beer. That fuckin' Obama!
/

152 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:24:17pm

re: #139 freetoken

Ah, magic!

(However, Clarke had more than one law I believe.)

More than a Bic lighter (since fire had been used since the days of Erectus), a flashlight would be truly magical.

One of the areas of anthro/archeology that begs for more attention is reconstructing human settlements in southern Asia. Problem is, unlike the drier areas of SW Asia, the wetter and thus greener areas of South Asia present problems for retrieving evidence.

While burials and artifacts have been uncovered from Europe dating to before the last glacial maximum, similarly aged remnants from South Asia are nonexistent (as far as I know.) We know that humans were in the region (from evidence such as footprints), but finding skeletal remains, even teeth, is harder. Same for settlements.

The desertification of SW Asia post LGM helped to preserve the area. Same for northern Africa, but that is under explored because of modern political reasons. There is likely quite a bit of interesting stuff to be discovered in SW Egypt, Libya, and northern Sudan.

As far as I am concerned, one of the real crimes of contemporary education in America is the lack of teaching on human origins, which I assign to fear out of upsetting one group or another. The real story of Homo sapiens is just not taught, as near as I can tell, unless one takes a physical anthro course in college.

Agreed. The same problem exists in the human diaspora to Central and South America. While the Clovis culture in the American SW is 12,000 years old, tantalizing tidbits further south, where preservation is much more problematical, indicate habitation +/- up to 20,000 years before.

Could those ancient immigrants have encountered the terror birds, the primary predators of the area south of the modern US, or did the big cats get here first?

Like I said, great stuff for future study, and absolutely ripe for genome studies. If we can find the artifacts necessary for coding.

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:27:01pm

Registered since: Jun 28, 2011 at 1:19 pm
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154 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:28:40pm

Registered since: Feb 9, 2012 at 5:24 pm
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155 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:29:12pm

Some people are just the strong silent type, I suppose.

156 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:29:19pm

What' up, SB???

157 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:30:32pm

re: #149 ggt

I guess this curs-ed 5 or 6 day virus is flourishing in the MidWest right now. Wait time at Urgent Care centers is long.

We got in pretty fast this morning, but we got in there right as they opened.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:31:34pm

re: #156 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

Just perusing the "Show Users" on this thread.

159 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:32:11pm

re: #157 Kragar

re: #149 ggt

Hope you feel better soon! KC had a lot of the creeping crud about 3 weeks ago.

160 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:33:08pm

re: #158 Slumbering Behemoth

"Nics omitted to protect the anonymous".

161 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:34:15pm

Little Girl Giant in London ~

Youtube Video
162 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:34:40pm

re: #160 Slumbering Behemoth

"Nics omitted to protect the anonymous".

As long as people don't do obnoxious things, they can remain anonymous.

Someone in this house likes to go to youtube and bring up "I Know a Song that Gets on Everybody's Nerves" and run away.

They are not allowed to remain anonymous.

163 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:36:14pm

re: #162 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Stop being coy. Everyone knows you're talking about me.

164 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:39:19pm

Well, time to see if this cold will let me get some sleep.

165 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:42:12pm

I am toddling off to bed. Good night all. Sweet scaly dreams.

166 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:45:25pm

Way to piss off the Dutch, Rick.

167 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:46:01pm

re: #166 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

Way to piss off the Dutch, Rick.

MSNBC Video
168 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:46:17pm

Ni man hao, mein scaly drughi!

Do not - I repeat- DO NOT - pay the ransom! I have escaped.

And how is everyone this fine evening?

169 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:46:43pm

re: #168 Guanxi88

Ni man hao, mein scaly drughi!

Do not - I repeat- DO NOT - pay the ransom! I have escaped.

And how is everyone this fine evening?

What's up man???

170 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:47:48pm

re: #169 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

What's up man???

Sorry - I avoid overseas emails. They always start off friendly, but they generally end in an invite to help them move funds overseas. I am sure you understand.

171 freetoken  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:48:32pm
MP3 Audio
172 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:48:34pm

re: #170 Guanxi88

Sorry - I avoid overseas emails. They always start off friendly, but they generally end in an invite to help them move funds overseas. I am sure you understand.

Let me guess...
A hot Nigerian Princess.
Works every time...

173 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:48:44pm

re: #169 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

But to answer your question: gasoline per gallon. Where or where is the Lord Humungous, to make the gezzoline flow?

174 Digital Display  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:49:23pm

I'm home! What a great night...I really think I'm going to get in a serious relationship..Last week I posted about meeting this cute red head Oklahoma woman that is just awesome..We just hit it off.So tonight we met up with some friends to eat and dance at places around College Corner. and we just had a blast.. I really like this lady..Here is your chance on the Internet to make fun of me.. I am Giddy..The Hoopster is Giddy...LOL
So...Here you go Lizards..Love? Maybe? oh no..

175 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:49:50pm

re: #167 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

In the very short time I spent in the Netherlands, I found it impossible to piss of the Dutch.

176 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:49:52pm

re: #172 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

Let me guess...
A hot Nigerian Princess.
Works every time...

...'hot Nigerian princess..."

is there any other kind?

And don't even start me on Ethiopians and Somali women.

177 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:50:14pm

re: #175 Slumbering Behemoth

In the very short time I spent in the Netherlands, I found it impossible to piss of the Dutch.

You just didn't put in the effort. Slacker.

178 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:50:37pm

re: #174 HoosierHoops

I'm home! What a great night...I really think I'm going to get in a serious relationship..Last week I posted about meeting this cute red head Oklahoma woman that is just awesome..We just hit it off.So tonight we met up with some friends to eat and dance at places around College Corner. and we just had a blast.. I really like this lady..Here is your chance on the Internet to make fun of me.. I am Giddy..The Hoopster is Giddy...LOL
So...Here you go Lizards..Love? Maybe? oh no..

Youtube Video
179 Kragar  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:52:19pm

re: #159 prairiefire

re: #149 ggt

Hope you feel better soon! KC had a lot of the creeping crud about 3 weeks ago.

The medicine is working good with the cramps, but it starts to wear off about an hour before I'm supposed to take another dose.

180 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:52:31pm

re: #174 HoosierHoops

I'm home! What a great night...I really think I'm going to get in a serious relationship..Last week I posted about meeting this cute red head Oklahoma woman that is just awesome..We just hit it off.So tonight we met up with some friends to eat and dance at places around College Corner. and we just had a blast.. I really like this lady..Here is your chance on the Internet to make fun of me.. I am Giddy..The Hoopster is Giddy...LOL
So...Here you go Lizards..Love? Maybe? oh no..

Red heads are pigmented that way for much the same reason that poison arrow frogs are - it's meant to be a warning.

181 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:53:05pm

re: #174 HoosierHoops

I really think I'm going to get in a serious relationship.

MAN DOWN! MAN DOWN!

Everyone, please... a moment of silence.

182 Digital Display  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:58:48pm

re: #180 Guanxi88

Red heads are pigmented that way for much the same reason that poison arrow frogs are - it's meant to be a warning.

She is a tall cute red head..And she is so freaking cool..We just hit it off...

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 10:59:38pm

re: #177 Guanxi88

You just didn't put in the effort. Slacker.

Everywhere I went, it was always "Next time..."

Smoking in the airport, a cop watches, waits for me to put out my cig, then wanders over and says "There is no smoking in the airport. Next time..."

Missing the train I already have a ticket for, sleeping through the night in a muddy train station, and hopping on the first one in the morning. The ticket checker wanders over and says "This ticket was for last night's train. Next time..."

I suppose I could have punched a cop to get a rise, but that's just not in my nature.

184 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:00:33pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

Everywhere I went, it was always "Next time..."

Smoking in the airport, a cop watches, waits for me to put out my cig, then wanders over and says "There is no smoking in the airport. Next time..."

Missing the train I already have a ticket for, sleeping through the night in a muddy train station, and hopping on the first one in the morning. The ticket checker wanders over and says "This ticket was for last night's train. Next time..."

I suppose I could have punched a cop to get a rise, but that's just not in my nature.

It's the pot.

185 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:02:49pm

re: #184 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

On the very high end of the list at the local coffeeshop... grown in Humboldt, California. CIVIC PRIDE MOTHER FUCKER!!!

186 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:06:55pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

Everywhere I went, it was always "Next time..."

Smoking in the airport, a cop watches, waits for me to put out my cig, then wanders over and says "There is no smoking in the airport. Next time..."

Missing the train I already have a ticket for, sleeping through the night in a muddy train station, and hopping on the first one in the morning. The ticket checker wanders over and says "This ticket was for last night's train. Next time..."

I suppose I could have punched a cop to get a rise, but that's just not in my nature.

Slacker. I bet you didn't even accuse them all of secretly being Belgian, did you? I mean, if you're not willing to put in the effort...

187 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:09:53pm

Missing my flight back to the states, related to missing the train the night before...

"We have only one flight leaving that way today. We can get you about 350 miles from your home. Normally we charge a 150 Guilder fee for changing flight plans, but we'll waive that fee for you. Next time..."

188 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:11:50pm

re: #186 Guanxi88

Well, when in Holland.. :puff: *cough**cough**cough*...


Wait, what?

189 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:14:24pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

She is a tall cute red head..And she is so freaking cool..We just hit it off...

A tall redhead? Well played, sir. Very well played, indeed.

190 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:16:48pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

Tell my crazy, penis biting ex-girlfriend I said... ARRRGGGHH!!!

191 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:17:17pm

Unrelated - or is it? - but I will tell you this:

I have tried damned near every bourbon that anyone has seen fit to bottle or sell, and will say, without fear of contradiction, that Old Grand Dad is the best damned whiskey for the money on the market. If they put a cork stopper in the bottle and covered it in red wax, they could sell it for twice as much, and have customers lined up for it.

192 Mich-again  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:19:52pm

The GOP kind of reminds me of the Costa cruise ship that sunk off the coast in Italy. The captain disengaged the autopilot so he could sail real close to the beach to show off the ship to attract new customers. But then he steered too close to the rocks and ended up with a gaping hole in the hull and the damn boat listed too far to the right and sunk before it even got out to the open seas. Then the Captain fell into a life raft, ditched the boat, and said "Wha-Happened?" Now no one wants to book a trip with that company because the brand name is permanently damaged.

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:20:51pm

re: #191 Guanxi88

I'm a tequila man, myself. On the "lower price and way better than Cuervo" tip, I like this.

194 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:21:33pm

re: #185 Slumbering Behemoth

On the very high end of the list at the local coffeeshop... grown in Humboldt, California. CIVIC PRIDE MOTHER FUCKER!!!

Buy local.

195 Lidane  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:23:21pm

More projection than an IMAX theater:

Youtube Video
196 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:23:36pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a tequila man, myself. On the "lower price and way better than Cuervo" tip, I like this.

Vodkas? Sobieski. Once you get past the fact that the geniuses in their marketing department signed Bruce Willis up, it's a fine, fine liquor.

One of the worst - and most common - mistakes people make is not trying things simply because the price is "too low." First of all, there's no such thing, and secondly, many a bargain is to be found on the bottom shelf.

197 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:25:41pm

re: #194 Guanxi88

Buy local.

Oddly enough, I was nearly 4,000 miles away from home when buying that local product.

198 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:26:05pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

Oddly enough, I was nearly 4,000 miles away from home when buying that local product.

Hardly matters. The principle of the thing is what counts.....

199 Mich-again  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:26:21pm

re: #151 Slumbering Behemoth

I can't believe the liquor store raised the price of my regular beer. That fuckin' Obama!
/

Kenya believe how much Obama is charging for beer !

200 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:27:21pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a tequila man, myself. On the "lower price and way better than Cuervo" tip, I like this.

had my first drink of tequila new year's (chinese) eve this year. Tastes like a peppery, oaky vodka, with a certain spice I can't identify in the background. Lived in TX for 11 years, and that was my first taste of it. On the whole, interesting.

201 Mich-again  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:28:22pm

re: #200 Guanxi88

with a certain spice I can't identify in the background

did it taste like a worm?

202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:29:30pm

re: #200 Guanxi88

First time, you say?

The good stuff, and this is just my opinion, has a peppery taste to it.

203 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:30:02pm

re: #201 Mich-again

did it taste like a worm?

THE SPICE MUST FLOW!!!

204 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:30:15pm

Howled with derisive laughter when I saw the Austin hipsters downing shaojiu - what the hell are they thinking? Stuff tastes like lacquer thinner.

205 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:31:06pm

re: #201 Mich-again

did it taste like a worm?

Look, I'm conservative, but tolerant - broadly so - but for all that, I just don't swing that way.

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:31:33pm

re: #204 Guanxi88

It's cool because it's not "cool".
/hipster logic

207 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:32:26pm

re: #206 Slumbering Behemoth

It's cool because it's not "cool".
/hipster logic

I think it was because they didn't know what it was, but "ethnic" people and cosmopolitans (like myself) were downing it.

208 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:32:51pm

re: #205 Guanxi88

That's not what your pimp told me.

209 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:33:52pm

re: #202 Slumbering Behemoth

First time, you say?

The good stuff, and this is just my opinion, has a peppery taste to it.

Something or other hornitos (means "little ovens," if my tex-mex doesn't fail me). Quite nice on its own. Any liquor worth drinking is worth drinking by itself, and I could easily drink this on its own.

210 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:34:19pm

re: #208 Slumbering Behemoth

That's not what your pimp told me.

She's a damned liar and a blabber-mouth!

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:35:04pm

re: #209 Guanxi88

Any liquor worth drinking is worth drinking by itself

QFMFT!

212 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:36:19pm

re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth

QFMFT!

(had to look it up. Thank you, thank you very much)

213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:40:44pm

re: #212 Guanxi88

If I want to drink a cola, I will drink a cola. If I want an adult beverage, I will drink an adult beverage. I see no reason in mixing the two.

I feel the same about coffee when it comes to milk, sugar, syrup, etc.

214 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:41:51pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

If I want to drink a cola, I will drink a cola. If I want an adult beverage, I will drink an adult beverage. I see no reason in mixing the two.

I feel the same about coffee when it comes to milk, sugar, syrup, etc.

Though, I will say, for those chilly (sub-50 degree) mornings we get here in Texas, coffee with a slug of the needful can be most invigorating.

215 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:42:49pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

If I want to drink a cola, I will drink a cola. If I want an adult beverage, I will drink an adult beverage. I see no reason in mixing the two.

I feel the same about coffee when it comes to milk, sugar, syrup, etc.

coffee? black
whiskey? bourbon
singers? german women

Any questions?

216 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:45:05pm

re: #214 Guanxi88

Though, I will say, for those chilly (sub-50 degree) mornings we get here in Texas, coffee with a slug of the needful can be most invigorating.

Of course, the only way to make a decent pot of coffee is with an enameled steel percolator on a gas range, if wood-fired is not available. A pinch of salt in with the grounds, and you've got a cup of coffee fit for the Almighty His Own Bad Self.

217 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:50:06pm

re: #215 Guanxi88

singers? german women

You are strange...

re: #216 Guanxi88

... yup. Definitely strange.

My great grandma percolated coffee that could peel paint, but she'd only have one wee cup in the morning That's where I got my taste for strong, black coffee. I was addicted at 14.

218 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 24, 2012 11:53:45pm

re: #217 Slumbering Behemoth

You are strange...

re: #216 Guanxi88

... yup. Definitely strange.

My great grandma percolated coffee that could peel paint, but she'd only have one wee cup in the morning That's where I got my taste for strong, black coffee. I was addicted at 14.

Ute Lemper: She Who negates all objections:

Youtube Video

About the perc coffee: If I bought the grounds, I am, by G_d, going to get every last bit of coffee out of them; and that's what a percolator does. The salt keeps the burnt taste from being too overwhelming (old Navy trick).

219 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:00:51am

re: #218 Guanxi88

The salt keeps the burnt taste from being too overwhelming (old Navy trick).

I like the taste of my coffee; the pleasing burnt flavor is half the point!

With that, I bail. Nite all.

220 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:03:38am

re: #218 Guanxi88

[Sniffles. Wipes eyes.]
ute lemper singing "La Vie en Rose" always makes my allergies act up.

221 freetoken  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:10:05am

"Lontano"

MP3 Audio
222 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:13:07am

re: #221 freetoken

Piano's out of tune. Otherwise, lovely tune,

223 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:15:58am

Youkali- for those who think a tango can't break your heart:

Youtube Video
224 freetoken  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:21:36am

Sam Taylor, from sometime in the 60's I think:

MP3 Audio
225 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:21:47am

Recall when ute Lemper played boston - mid 90's. sold a vintage leica 35mm camera, a brother wpI, and cleaned out my bank account to see her live. spent the last of my cash for two weeks to buy roses to throw when she finished. best money I ever spent.

226 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 12:29:11am

Maudlin.
Too many memories.

I leave you with Dietrich singing "Lili Marlene". Those who know me know the story.

Youtube Video
227 researchok  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:28:10am

Morning, all

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:32:00am

re: #227 researchok

Morning, all

yo

229 researchok  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:36:30am

Quiet this AM

230 researchok  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:36:53am

I suppose even godless heathens must sleep.
/

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:42:09am

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

U.S. refuses to grant visa to Israeli MK due to his membership in 'terror group'
National Union MK Michael Ben Ari believes he was barred from U.S. for being a member of far-right Kach organization, says in response that this type of 'U.S. blindness' is what brought about the 9/11 attacks.

232 researchok  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:44:42am

re: #231 Peanut Gallery

The US made the right call.

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:45:54am

re: #232 researchok

The US made the right call.

I expect it to be an election issue. /

234 researchok  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:47:54am

No doubt.

What we are lacking in snow this year we are making up for with stupid.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:51:48am

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*pant pant*HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From the transcripts of the Indiana birther election commission hearing, some attorney to Orly:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

MR. ?: Do you have -- show me evidence -- we're going to -- I will treat you with the respect that you deserve, and I expect to be treated the same. Show me the evidence that you have that this person you're identifying in Indonesia is Barack Obama, and I want you offering that certified, properly certified authenticated records from Indonesia that you're identifying as [inaudible].

236 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:54:40am

re: #235 Peanut Gallery

More:

MR. DUMEZICH: Whoa, whoa. You're out of order.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay, well, you're out of order.

MS. TAITZ: You're all out of order.

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 1:55:59am

re: #236 Peanut Gallery

Oh my.

MR. KESLER: It's fraud. That's the what.

MR. ?: Then take it to the House of Representative and seek to have him impeached.

MR. KESLER: And you know what they would say? Well, we can't impeach him because, gosh, he's probably not the president. What would you do then?

MS. TAITZ: Sir, sir, we need to provide evidence.

238 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 2:59:33am

re: #237 Peanut Gallery

What a clownshow.

239 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 3:16:07am

Ahahaha! Pam Geller is in tears:

I had intended to see the movie "Act of Valor" at the 10:30 showing tonight. I was excited at the prospect, thinking that a movie made outside the Hollywood machine about the military would be a michaya. How wrong I was. Jew-hatred, the new chic. Ugh.

How these SEALs could sanction this is above my pay grade.
[...]
[quoting someone else:]

From the moment he appeared on-screen, I was struck by Veadov’s similarity to the propaganda images. I assumed that the film-makers were trying to make him look like this, a familiar face to all of you, one that is both Semitic and one that is attached to one of America’s greatest enemies:

[Osama]

I was wrong in that assumption. Halfway through the movie, in a very exciting action scene, the SEALS capture Christo and the Team’s senior commander interviews him. Christo is oozing greasy sweat and even more greasy arrogance. At any moment, one expects him to call his interrogator “infidel” or say “Allah is Great,” two things we hear with great frequency from those fighting against Americans in Afghanistan, those who fought against Americans in Iraq, and those who blow up Americans on 9/11. Instead, though, what we hear the is the Senior say “But you’re Jewish!”

Here’s the deal: Our “brave” SEALS flinched. Tasked with making a movie that could have shown Americans who the real heroes and the real enemies are, they chose, instead, to tear a page out of the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” and promote, very heavily (and especially heavily to Israel’s political friends), a movie that makes its greasy, ugly, rich, manipulative, American-hating bad guy . . . a Jew.

Of course, they were waiting for the "greasy, ugly, rich, manipulative, American-hating bad guy" to be a Muslim. THAT would have been A-OK.

240 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 3:28:58am

re: #239 Peanut Gallery

That movie is just basically a lick-piece for the SEALs, right?

241 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 3:31:03am

re: #240 Obdicut

That movie is just basically a lick-piece for the SEALs, right?

And, apparently, it's almost Ed Wood bad.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 3:35:29am

re: #240 Obdicut

That movie is just basically a lick-piece for the SEALs, right?

From what I read, yes. Moreover wingnuts like Roger Simon gave glowing, glowing reviews.

243 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 3:37:35am

Two more paras from that review quoted by Pam:

The other day, I saw a Newsweak headline calling the Navy SEALS “Obama’s Secret Army.” At the time, I was incensed. My thought was that the Newsweek team was annointing Obama king, with his own special force, answerable only to him. The SEALS, I said to any who would listen, are America’s secret army or, at the very least, the military’s secret army.

Having seen this movie, though, my feeling is that Obama can have his SEALS. They deserve each other, since both of them apparently feel very comfortable wallowing in the world of antisemitism. I’m really, really disgusted.

244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 3:44:56am

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

The IRA finally apologised yesterday for the death of a nine-year-old boy after blaming the British Army for almost 40 years.

245 Kragar  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:02:14am

re: #242 Peanut Gallery

From what I read, yes. Moreover wingnuts like Roger Simon gave glowing, glowing reviews.

Act of Valor

Metascore: 42/100

246 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:09:34am

[Link: www.clevelandmovieblog.com...]

ACT OF VALOR, on the other hand, is first and foremost propaganda. The film is essentially an hour and forty minute recruiting commercial that blurs the line between reality and fiction by casting real-life Navy SEALs as its protagonists.

LOL.

247 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:13:59am

re: #216 Guanxi88

Of course, the only way to make a decent pot of coffee is with an enameled steel percolator on a gas range, if wood-fired is not available.

You misspelled "French press pot".

248 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:22:24am
"SOMEBODY" ORDERED SEAL PARTICIPATION in this TRAVESTY.
The SEALS didn't just one day wake-up and decide to show themselves in public and with a complete Anti-Semitic message to boot.
They do NOT have that "authority" even IF they "wanted to",which is DOUBTFUL.
NOPE! A SENIOR American Official ORDERED THIS OUTRAGE!
An Administration that does such a DESPICABLE DEED deserves to be DEFEATED and in a LANDSLIDE.
HOW DARE THEY PERVERT THE TRUTH!!
Oh,and DAMN McCoy and Waugh,and especially Kurt Johnstad the POS screenwriter.

Posted by: Choi | Saturday, February 25, 2012 at 12:27 AM

249 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:27:12am

re: #248 Peanut Gallery

I wish Dan Choi would finally disappear into obscurity. His 15 minutes were up years ago.

250 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:28:27am

re: #249 RogueOne

It's his evil twin.

251 Kragar  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:33:46am

re: #248 Peanut Gallery

IMDB Trivia

During production, after the SEALs became frustrated that they were not being accurately depicted, they were invited to play key roles in the cast.

252 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:39:20am

Whoa, I love to watch sports and all but this poor sick bastard is taking it to another level..:

Richard Querna banned from high school games after admitting he masturbates to homemade video of girls playing basketball
[Link: blogs.citypages.com...]

Parents confronted Richard Querna at the Mankato West girl's basketball game last Friday after a parent noticed that he was only filming one girl, whom he constantly zoomed in on.

The parent alerted the basketball player's father, and the two men confronted Querna, who "got real nervous and tried to leave," according to the police report. Querna wound up in a meeting with school athletic director Ken Essay and gave him permission to review the footage on the camcorder. Essay found a video of Querna sitting in an office chair masturbating while yelling out girls' names.

253 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:41:30am

re: #252 RogueOne

Eh, boys will be b...

wait wut?!

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:43:43am
The Jew hate film was made by Obama Hollywood pals - and you all thought this would be different? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! OBAMA AND THE democRATS ARE INSIDIOUS JEW HATERS - THIS IS THE NAZI GOEBBELS MACHINE AS RUN BY IMAM OBUMMA!!! democRATS were the party of ther KKK - remember? or you just do not want to think?

can't we impeach this sick shit already? has no one got guts anymore? AND OBAMA WANTS TO KILL THE 2ND AMENDMENT, DESTROY OUR CONSTITUTION AND BRING THIS COUNTRY AND THE WEST TO ITS KNEES.

what am I failing to understand here? how have we been changed so quickly ??

Posted by: DanS. | Saturday, February 25, 2012 at 05:45 AM

255 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:44:45am

re: #254 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

[...]

But I will say this, however: This was one of the liveliest and most interesting Comment sections I've read at AS in a VERY long time!! Pam's audience is certainly lively, passionate and nothing if not diverse!! Just shows how powerful and influential our Mz Geller really is! Go, Pam, go!!

Posted by: Joy | Saturday, February 25, 2012 at 05:50 AM

Heh. Indeed.

256 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:45:31am

re: #254 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

re: #255 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Heh. Indeed.

Insanoblog to the rescue!!!

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:47:08am

re: #256 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

re: #255 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Insanoblog to the rescue!!!

Wazzat?

259 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:47:43am

re: #255 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

All those were from Geller's feed? Doh! I'm betting Dan Choi isn't a big fan of Geller. My bad.

260 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:48:33am

re: #259 RogueOne

All those were from Geller's feed? Doh! I'm betting Dan Choi isn't a big fan of Geller. My bad.

I thought you were joking.

261 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:49:35am

re: #260 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

I thought you were joking.

Oh yeah, in that case, I most certainly was joking......

262 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:49:50am

re: #258 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Wazzat?

Pam's blog.
I feed off teh crazee.

263 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:50:05am

re: #260 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

I'm on my first cup of coffee. You'll have to cut me some slack.

264 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:50:50am

re: #263 RogueOne

I'm on my first cup of coffee. You'll have to cut me some slack.

...Slack...?
I forgot to tie off the line...
Whoops.

265 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:52:30am

I expect Rogue has fallen to his doom by now...
:(

266 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:54:28am

re: #265 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

I expect Rogue has fallen to his doom by now...
:(

I'm back and feeling much better now....

267 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:58:32am

re: #266 N. Korea: Progressive Paradise

I'm back and feeling much better now...

Lol.

268 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:59:52am

My nic is no longer cool.
:P

269 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 4:59:57am

Remember the story about the white grandfather harassed because he was walking with his black granddaughter?

[Link: www.theagitator.com...]

Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo has since shot back, and released video which contradicts a couple parts of Henson’s story. He has also released an email exchange he had with Henson in which Henson asks him not to release the video. You can read Henson’s version of these developments here.

Henson has done some great work over the years on the issues I cover, and I can’t recall any other occasion in which his credibility has been seriously called into question. He says that in the heat of the moment, he misremembered a couple details (most notably, that a police officer pointed a Taser at him), which seems entirely plausible. He also misreported that a constable called in for backup after he told her the girl was his granddaughter. Given that Henson had been stopped and questioned once before while out with his granddaughter, it isn’t difficult to see why he’d be irritated when he was stopped again, then angry when confronted shortly thereafter by a swarm of Austin cops, and then perhaps inclined to remember a version the events that paints Austin PD in a worse light than was justified.

It seems like in the end, Austin PD handled the situation about as well as could be expected, and that at the same time, Henson was justified in being angry and frustrated at how he was treated.
...

270 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:00:32am

re: #268 Varek Raith

My nic is no longer cool.
:P

C'mon! I was only harassing you cuz I love you. I love you man.

271 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:01:58am

re: #257 Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

Georgia Senate Majority Leader & President Pro Tempore Introduce Unconstitutional Nullification Bill

Yeah, they're trying to secede again. I don't think they've thought their cunning plan all the way through.

272 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:03:28am

More good news for John McCain Mitt Romney. It looks like the Texas GOP primary could be delayed longer than anyone thought:

The fate of the redistricting maps now rests solely with the three-judge panel in San Antonio. As of the time of this update, a global agreement between all parties has not been reached relative to the Texas House and Texas Congressional districts. Therefore, the final decisions as to where the lines will be are in the hands of the three-judge panel. The panel set deadlines for parties to submit final briefs on various issues and that deadline has now passed. This now means that all the arguments are over and all we are waiting for now is for the Court to rule.

If the Court issues maps on or before March 3rd, then the May 29th primary date can be accomplished - assuming a re-opened filing period can be accomplished within a few days. If the Court issues new maps after March 3rd, then the next and final available primary date would be June 26th. To accomplish a June 26th primary, maps would still need to be issued by March 30th to meet the June 26th date.

I can't even imagine what would happen if Texas got delayed to June 26th. The idea of these primaries going that long is unbearable.

273 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:04:35am

re: #272 Lidane

That might make the Indiana primary interesting. Usually by May the race has already been decided.

274 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:04:40am

re: #270 RogueOne

C'mon! I was only harassing you cuz I love you. I love you man.

Rogue and Varek sitting in a tree...

275 Kragar  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:05:49am

re: #271 Obdicut

Yeah, they're trying to secede again. I don't think they've thought their cunning plan all the way through.

Can we let them go this time?
///

276 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:09:32am

re: #275 Kragar

I don't get why these idiots think that this will get anywhere. There's hardly a more settled point of law. Do they just like wasting taxpayer money?

277 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:10:33am

re: #276 Obdicut

I don't get why these idiots think that this will get anywhere. There's hardly a more settled point of law. Do they just like wasting taxpayer money?

There's a black Marxist foreigner in the White House! We have to stop him! Nullification ahoy!

///

278 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:10:47am

Rick Santorum or Satanic Heavy Metal: The Quiz
Can you tell the difference between Santorum quotes and Megadeth lyrics? Nope, you probably can't.
[Link: motherjones.com...]

279 Kragar  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:10:58am

re: #276 Obdicut

I don't get why these idiots think that this will get anywhere. There's hardly a more settled point of law. Do they just like wasting taxpayer money?

Well, if you don't fund healthcare, education, or community services, you've got plenty of money to toss around.

280 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:14:46am
281 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:17:06am

re: #272 Lidane

More good news for John McCain Mitt Romney. It looks like the Texas GOP primary could be delayed longer than anyone thought:

I can't even imagine what would happen if Texas got delayed to June 26th. The idea of these primaries going that long is unbearable.

We in Texas are eventually going to get to the point (if we're not already there) where literally 100% of the time and resources of the state government goes to untangling and re-tangling the electoral process. Aside from that, toll road sweetheart deals, and FBI investigations of the Dallas ISD and city council, what the hell do we do in this state?

Oh, prisons. Right.

282 compound_Idaho  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:28:43am

re: #280 Lidane

It is time come home.

283 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:29:06am

Has anyone else seen this movie?

The Guard [Link: www.imdb.com...]

I watched it again last night, very good movie. It was a little difficult making out the irish accents sometimes but worth it. There were some really good lines in it:

Francis Sheehy: Who was up there firing that cannon?
Sergeant Gerry Boyle: The FBI lad, probably hadn't had this much fun since they burned all those kids up in Waco.

284 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:29:33am

Whistleblower cop suing after retaliation.

"This retaliation comes in the context of a city-wide controversy over the NYPD's use of illegal quotas and the damage such quotas inflict on innocent people, policing, and police-community relations," Craig Mathews claims in his complaint.

The complaint continues: "Since 2008, supervisors in the 42nd Precinct have developed and implemented a system of quotas mandating numbers of arrests, summonses, and stop-and-frisks (with one supervisor describing stop-and-frisks as being 'worth their weight in gold'). As part of the regime for enforcing these quotas, supervisors have developed a detailed
monitoring system that includes computer reports that use color coding to categorize officers in terms of their compliance with quotas. Current reports use black ink to identify officers who are meeting quotas, silver ink to identify officers who are meeting only some quotas, and red ink to identify officers who are not meeting quotas. Officers in the precinct are constantly pressured to meet the quotas, and those do not are subject to punishment including undesirable assignments, the loss of overtime, denial of leave, separation from partners, and poor evaluations.

"Concerned about the impact of illegal quotas on policing and police-community relations, Officer Matthews on at least four occasions has notified commanding officers of the 42nd Precinct about the quota system being used by mid-level supervisors. In response to having spoken out about the precinct's quota system, Officer Matthews has been retaliated against in ways that are more severe and differ from the punishment being imposed on the many other officers not meeting the quotas. And at a roll call last month, a supervisor running the quota program said, 'If you come after me, I will come back after you harder.'

285 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:30:47am

re: #284 Obdicut

Read about that earlier this week. So much for the "there are no quotas" line of crap.

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:31:35am

re: #284 Obdicut

What is it with them wanting to turn into Russian police?

287 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:32:57am

re: #286 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

What is it with them wanting to turn into Russian police?

That's not too far from the truth. Somewhere along the line the NYPD has decided they're a branch of the federal government and the entire east coast is within their jurisdiction.

288 Talking Point Detective  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:34:08am

re: #278 RogueOne

Rick Santorum or Satanic Heavy Metal: The Quiz
Can you tell the difference between Santorum quotes and Megadeth lyrics? Nope, you probably can't.
[Link: motherjones.com...]

4 out of 10.

Hard to believe.

289 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:34:54am

re: #288 Talking Point Detective

I'm a big fan of Megadeath and I failed miserably. 5/10.

290 Talking Point Detective  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:35:20am

re: #288 Talking Point Detective

4 out of 10.

Hard to believe.

4 out of 10 right, that is.

291 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:35:31am

re: #286 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

You see this from yesterday?

Eleventh Circuit Finds Fifth Amendment Right Against Self Incrimination Protects Against Being Forced to Decrypt Hard Drive Contents
[Link: volokh.com...]

292 Talking Point Detective  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:35:57am

re: #289 RogueOne

I'm a big fan of Megadeath...

Can't say as I'm shocked to read that.

293 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:37:09am

re: #286 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

What is it with them wanting to turn into Russian police?

Running quotas seems to me like corporatism, too. Reminds me of working in companies with asshole managers who just assign a goal and then judge everything by adherence to and progress towards that goal, without ever actually evaluating the goal or any of its outputs. Like focusing on attendance, and claiming your department is running great because everyone is there on time and stays all day. Never mind that they're cranky as fuck that you're being such a hard-ass and working as slow as they can to get back at you, you got them to sit at their desks!


The good news is that a lot of the officers appear to be pushing back. The bad news is that they're doing it like an '80s movie.

"The quota system in the 42nd Precinct has pitted police officers against each other, straining professional relationships and diverting resources away from law enforcement activities. Officers who comply with the quotas have had their precinct lockers dislodged and overturned, with the lockers sometimes being placed in the shower or their locks being plastered shut. This practice of 'locker flipping' has escalated to the point where on-duty police officers are now assigned to guard the precinct's locker room around the clock.

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:37:17am

re: #291 RogueOne

You see this from yesterday?

Eleventh Circuit Finds Fifth Amendment Right Against Self Incrimination Protects Against Being Forced to Decrypt Hard Drive Contents
[Link: volokh.com...]

Good for the collective you.

295 Kragar  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:40:12am

re: #288 Talking Point Detective

4 out of 10.

Hard to believe.

7 out of 10.

296 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:42:03am

re: #288 Talking Point Detective

8 / 10. It's a lot easier if you imagine each quote being spoken in a California Dude voice. The ones that don't sound right are Santorum. Though I was quite surprised by one of the ones I got wrong.

297 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:45:21am

I take it everyone has already seen the "zombie Mohammed" story out of PA? I can only assume Geller has been all over it. If you haven't, here is an even-handed write-up:

Charges Dismissed in Pennsylvania Prosecution for Attack on “Zombie Mohammed” Atheist Parader
[Link: volokh.com...]

I bring it up to point out this article on how it applies to Anti-Sharia laws:

The Irrelevance of Anti-Sharia Laws to the “Zombie Mohammed” Case
[Link: volokh.com...]

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:46:40am

re: #297 RogueOne

Yes, we've discussed it twice and sternly condemned the judge twice.

299 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:48:31am

re: #298 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Figured that. IN has the same style of local judges. You don't have to actually be a lawyer, you just have to be elected. The small town next door to me has an old hippie as their town judge. He's pretty lenient when it comes to misdemeanors.

300 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:48:56am

re: #297 RogueOne

Yep. We already have an anti-shariah law. The 1st amendment.

Okay, not technically a law, but whatevs.

301 mdey  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:55:34am

re: #278 RogueOne

I only got 6 out of 10. Man, I used to think that Dave Mustaine was cool.

302 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:57:31am

Another update on that poor dog in PA:

Dog in fatal mauling faces quarantine, possible euthanization
[Link: www.pittsburghlive.com...]

Helo the husky's reprieve might be short-lived.

Days after a Churchill man adopted the dog that killed a McKeesport infant, Allegheny County authorities seized it on Thursday, threatening to euthanize it.

The 18-month-old animal will remain in quarantine for 10 days while a veterinarian and a dog behaviorist evaluate it. William Uhring, who took custody of the husky and brought it to live with his family on Tuesday, can appeal the seizure, according to an order by Common Pleas Judge Edward Borkowski.

"All I'm trying to do is what's best for the dog. It deserves to be treated well and to have a loving home," Uhring said. "How can they just come in and take him? He's now in another, new situation. It makes no sense at all."

Prosecutors cited the state's "Dangerous Dog" law in their request to take the dog, and experts said euthanization is common after fatal maulings. Yet Uhring's effort to save the dog brought calls of support to the Tribune-Review yesterday.

303 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 5:59:07am

re: #278 RogueOne

Rick Santorum or Satanic Heavy Metal: The Quiz
Can you tell the difference between Santorum quotes and Megadeth lyrics? Nope, you probably can't.
[Link: motherjones.com...]

Wow. I only got 5 out of 10.

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:00:43am

re: #302 RogueOne

Isn't that the standard practice?

305 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:02:48am

I finally found what the hell was taking up all my HD space: the temporary files folder from gamersgate, with 28 gigs in it.

Nice programming, guys!

306 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:03:26am

re: #305 Obdicut

I finally found what the hell was taking up all my install space: the temporary files folder from gamersgate, with 28 gigs in it.

Nice programming, guys!

D'oh!

307 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:05:57am

re: #306 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

I found some good stuff while I was cleaning, though:

Marvin the Paranoid Policeman

308 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:06:06am

re: #304 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Isn't that the standard practice?

Yes, seems to be. In another story from this morning:
[Link: www.pittsburghlive.com...]

The animal remains quarantined while a veterinarian and a dog behaviorist evaluate it. Should authorities deem it a dangerous dog, the animal could be euthanized, according to state law.

It is possible for owners to obtain the release of a dog labeled as dangerous, but it isn't easy and doesn't occur often, said Jason Lichtenstein, a partner with Edgar Snyder & Associates Law Firm in Downtown, who specializes in dog-bite cases.

The owner would have to fulfill a number of requirements, including registering the animal as a dangerous dog, posting signs on the property alerting neighbors and securing at least a $50,000 insurance policy to cover damages in the event of an attack.

"It's very burdensome," Lichtenstein said. "Because of that, the dogs often are euthanized."

I know I had to go to multiple companies in order to get home owners insurance because I have dobes. The first 2 companies stopped the process as soon as they found out. My insurance is through an Indiana farmers co-op and they made me add a special rider.

309 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:11:38am

re: #308 RogueOne

I pity the dog, but I won't be outraged if it is euthanized.

310 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:12:06am

Nice. A company denied the right to force arbitration.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

311 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:13:46am

re: #310 Obdicut

And another one:
[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

Good. Arbitration can be a very useful thing, but it's got to be set up to be a fair, impartial first step before court, not something that clearly benefits one party more than the other.

Nice to see this finally getting repeatedly shot down in the courts.

312 Major Tom  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:15:59am

speaking of blatant bigots.... Check out the comments.

[Link: www.theblaze.com...]

313 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:18:48am

re: #312 Major Tom

Oh, I expect a lot of that in the near future.

314 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:19:06am

And another guy goes free after it's shown that the police concealed evidence, the prosecutor coached witnesses, and the forensic specialist gave misleading testimony,

I'll bet everyone a lukewarm taco that the police don't even see disciplinary action, the prosecutor gets re-elected or re-appointed, and there is no review or reformation of forensics proceedings.

Miles has been free since October 2009 when Freedom of Information Act requests revealed two previously undisclosed police reports containing exculpatory material.

One documented an anonymous tip to police three months before Miles' trial that claimed to know who the actual killer was. The other documented a threatening altercation the victims had in the same week as the shooting with someone who could have been investigated as a suspect.

In January 2010, an eye witness recanted his identification of Miles as the shooter, explaining that the prosecutor had coached him.

Seven months later, the trace evidence analyst signed an affidavit that undercut her trial testimony about alleged gunshot residue she collected from Miles' right hand.

The analyst said application of a different standard would have resulted in a negative test result for gunshot residue. A consultant explained that that Miles would have had the same residue after touching a gun, not firing it.

On Wednesday, District Judge Andy Chatham formally read a ruling of "actual innocence" by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. The formal declaration clears the way for Miles to seek $80,000 from the state for every year of his imprisonment under the Tim Cole Act.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

315 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:20:36am

re: #314 Obdicut

....
Judge Andy Chatham formally read a ruling of "actual innocence" by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

That's the second reference I've heard of that type of ruling. I wonder how many states have something like that.

316 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:23:16am

re: #288 Talking Point Detective

4 out of 10.

Hard to believe.

I got 7 right, and I don't listen to MegaDeath. I think unfortunately I'm too up to date on Rick's spews.

317 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:23:23am

Good morning lizards!

318 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:24:01am

re: #140 ggt

Why does one need a Hummer in Florida? Indeed in most of America? I mean, really, maybe in parts of Alaska or other areas with treacherous terrain, but Florida? Does it get you thru the swamp land safely?

I love to pull up beside Hummer wannabees in this:

Image: LR2.jpg

(Not my truck, but the next one down the assembly line)

319 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:26:01am

And, in the negative side of judges, this one stupidly asserts that bans on using public schools as churches is unjust because it picks on religion, and that there's no 'secular equivalent' to worship. Well, duh.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

320 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:26:28am

One step forward, two steps back:

Court OKs Taking DNA From Felony Arrestees
[Link: www.wired.com...]

A federal appeals court Thursday upheld a voter-approved measure requiring California authorities to take a DNA sample from every adult arrested on felony accusations in the Golden State.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the challenge in hopes of striking down the measure, argued that DNA sampling of arrestees was an unconstitutional Fourth Amendment search and privacy breach. A lower court had refused to stop the program that has resulted in California securing a DNA database of more than 1.5 million people.

“DNA analysis is an extraordinarily effective tool for law enforcement officials to identify arrestees, solve past crimes, and exonerate innocent suspects. After weighing these factors, we conclude that the government’s compelling interests far outweigh arrestees’ privacy concerns,” Judge Milan Smith Jr. wrote (.pdf) for the 2-1 appeals panel.

He added that DNA collection “is substantially indistinguishable from traditional fingerprinting as a means of identifying arrestees and, incidentally, tying arrestees to criminal investigations.”

At least 21 states have regulations requiring suspects to give a DNA sample upon an arrest. President Barack Obama supports taking DNA when a suspect is arrested.

Proposition 69, adopted in 2004 and fully implemented in 2009, requires adult detainees to provide a saliva, or sometimes a blood sample, upon felony arrest. The sample is stored in state and FBI databases, even if the arrested adult is never charged or convicted of a crime.

About 100,000 persons arrested for felonies in California are ultimately cleared every year.

321 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:28:15am

re: #315 RogueOne

I had to go look it up, since I'd never heard the phrase "actual innocence" before:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The only difference between a finding of innocence and a finding of actual innocence is where the burden of proof lies. Actual Guilt is not required in the United States for person to be found culpable. Only "proof beyond a reasonable doubt". After the trial the burden of proof shifts from the state to the convicted person. If they obtain post-conviction relief from the conviction it is a finding of 'Actual Innocence'.

In other words, he got convicted of a crime, but was able to later go back and prove that he never committed it at all.

322 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:28:37am

re: #318 Decatur Deb

I love to pull up beside Hummer wannabees in this:

Image: LR2.jpg

(Not my truck, but the next one down the assembly line)

I saw a LR and matching trailer yesterday. Huge Union Jacks painted on the tops of both, with wide stripes (that looked pink from a distance) going doing the sides of the vehicle.

It was in a parking lot across the street from my apartment.

323 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:28:45am

re: #320 RogueOne

Well, it really is a double-edged sword. A lot of the argument for it is based on how good the DNA has been at exonerating defendants, too.

324 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:30:42am

re: #318 Decatur Deb

Compare the damage:

Image: Hummer_59b35e_732036.jpg

The hummer came off worse.

325 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:31:12am

re: #321 Lidane

I heard of it for the first time last week:

Former Indy Mayor Stephen Goldsmith cleared in 2011 domestic dispute
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

The Goldsmiths' attorney, Allen Dale, confirmed Wednesday that a Washington, D.C., Superior Court judge handed down a ruling of "actual innocence" in the case.

326 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:33:30am

re: #323 Obdicut

Well, it really is a double-edged sword. A lot of the argument for it is based on how good the DNA has been at exonerating defendants, too.

Eyewitness testimony plays real high in court, with a lot of the value being traditional.

I took a post-graduate class in "Human Information Processing" and that told me that human memory and recall is a total clusterfuck unless you're trained in it. And believing that police officers *are* trained along those lines and therefore arguably can be trusted more almost got me tossed off a jury when I stated as much in a jury questionnaire. (Being new to Philly I did not quite get how an answer like that could get a judge pissed at you.)

327 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:34:11am

re: #323 Obdicut

I have a problem with them being able to add people they don't convict or even charge with any crime into a database. IIRC, IN's law says if you're convicted they take DNA, I don't have a problem with that.

My DNA is in a military database but I willingly consented. That's quite different.

328 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:34:20am

re: #322 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I saw a LR and matching trailer yesterday. Huge Union Jacks painted on the tops of both, with wide stripes (that looked pink from a distance) going doing the sides of the vehicle.

It was in a parking lot across the street from my apartment.

Hey, it's still there. I can go grab a picture of it for you. :)

329 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:35:00am

re: #326 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I'd say cops might be able to be trusted more because they're trained, but not all of them are successfully trained. You'd need an actual demonstration of that ability by the cops in order to verify that. I haven't seen any study showing cops are better at eyewitness testimony than anyone else.

330 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:36:28am

re: #327 RogueOne

I have a problem with them being able to add people they don't convict or even charge with any crime into a database. IIRC, IN's law says if you're convicted they take DNA, I don't have a problem with that.

My DNA is in a military database but I willingly consented. That's quite different.

I have a problem with it too, I'm just pointing out that some of the support for this comes from defense lawyers and those on the pro-defendant side, since it'd make it harder for prosecutors to dodge inconvenient DNA evidence.

331 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:36:40am

re: #329 Obdicut

I'd say cops might be able to be trusted more because they're trained, but not all of them are successfully trained. You'd need an actual demonstration of that ability by the cops in order to verify that. I haven't seen any study showing cops are better at eyewitness testimony than anyone else.

True. I'm less naive about it now. You also have known cases of Thin Blue Line Honor Code where they lie to cover for each other since it's their brotherhood vs The World.

332 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:37:06am

Speaking of juries, my county must have taken me off the "conscientious objector" list. I have to report to jury duty the day after my birthday.

333 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:39:20am

Asian-American on TIME's Latino cover

As if Time Magazine wasn't experiencing enough cover controversy already, Michelle Woo at the OC Weekly points out that the latest issue, which was supposed to feature 20 portraits of Latino voters, accidently includes a man who is half-Chinese, half-Irish/Norwegian:

A friend of mine, Michael Schennum, is the short-haired gentleman in the top row, center, behind the letter "M." He is half Chinese and half white Irish and Norwegian. Not Latino. Not even a little bit. Not even one of those Chinese-Mexicans from Mexicali that OC's own Robert Chao Romero likes to write about. At least as far as Schennum knows.

Schennum, who is a staff photographer for The Arizona Republic, wrote on his Facebook page, "They never told me what it was for or [asked] if I was Latino."

Heh.

334 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:40:39am

re: #324 Obdicut

Compare the damage:

Image: Hummer_59b35e_732036.jpg

The hummer came off worse.

"Could not load."

335 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:43:32am

re: #334 Decatur Deb

Try this one:

Image: hummer-crashed.jpg

336 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:43:51am

Disaster is at hand.

The Feline Overlord is pissed because the apartment is out of food that he is willing to eat.

The two open cans are "NOT WANT" class. There is no canned tuna fish. And nothing thawed or on hand that can be immediately cooked.

The badgering of the staff for this failure shall now commence.

337 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:44:39am

re: #335 Obdicut

Try this one:

Image: hummer-crashed.jpg

Gets better gas mileage after having that much weight knocked off it.
/

338 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:45:07am

re: #336 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Disaster is at hand.

The Feline Overlord is pissed because the apartment is out of food that he is willing to eat.

The two open cans are "NOT WANT" class. There is no canned tuna fish. And nothing thawed or on hand that can be immediately cooked.

The badgering of the staff for this failure shall now commence.

Put tuna fish juice on the food if you have a can. That might work.

339 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:45:26am

I got thrown off the property while working on the Hummer plant in Northern Indiana. I'm not a union member and they freaked when they found out. For a few minutes there I thought I was going to have to fight my way out.

340 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:46:43am

re: #339 RogueOne

I got thrown off the property while working on the Hummer plant in Northern Indiana. I'm not a union member and they freaked when they found out. For a few minutes there I thought I was going to have to fight my way out.

They kicked you off the property because you weren't a union member? WTF?

341 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:49:47am

re: #340 NJDhockeyfan

The automakers shut down for a time during the summer to re-tool, do all the maintenance, etc... My company was hired to hang a little bit of steel during their shutdown. Some guy came around asking to see union cards and I don't have one. My brother and my co-worker both did but that wasn't good enough. He ran off to tell on me and within a few minutes a crowd started to gather. I was starting to get a little nervous.

342 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:50:23am

re: #335 Obdicut

Try this one:

Image: hummer-crashed.jpg

Yeah--like the Desert Eagle, another spin-off from the Ahhnold Mystique.

343 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:52:06am

re: #341 RogueOne

The automakers shut down for a time during the summer to re-tool, do all the maintenance, etc... My company was hired to hang a little bit of steel during their shutdown. Some guy came around asking to see union cards and I don't have one. My brother and my co-worker both did but that wasn't good enough. He ran off to tell on me and within a few minutes a crowd started to gather. I was starting to get a little nervous.

Oh brother. If you had been attacked with pipes I'm sure there are some people who would have seen that a justified.

344 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:53:29am

re: #338 NJDhockeyfan

Put tuna fish juice on the food if you have a can. That might work.

I now have a Siamese cat standing half on the laptop and half on my chest with his face three inches from mine - meowing loudly his discontent with the current food supply.
(Had to move him to type this comment in.)

345 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:55:27am

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

Oh brother. If you had been attacked with pipes I'm sure there are some people who would have seen that a justified.

And if he had been sprinkled with pixie dust he'd be Peter Pan, but he isn't.

346 William of Orange  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:55:52am

Another cop cleared of excessive force!

Come on!! Tasering a woman who is already in handcuffs?? She had no way of catching her fall as her muscles were incapacitated by electricity! This woman will never wake up again. Because of this stupid action she's now brain dead!

What In The?!? Cop Tasers Woman, Leaving her Brain Dead (VIDEO)
Posted February 21, 2012 by The Decider for Global Grind Staff

20-year-old Danielle Maudsley may never wake up again. Danielle was left brain dead after she was tasered by police and smacked her head on the ground.

Maudsley was taken to a Florida Highway Patrol Station after being arrested for a suspected hit-and-run in September. While she was handcuffed, she ran out of the door, spun, fell backwards and hit her head on the ground.

Bleeding and crying, she tried to get up. She then blacked out and has remained unconscious ever since.

But as footage from a police cruiser dashboard camera reveals, Trooper Daniel Cole, who this week was cleared of any wrongdoing, fired a taser's electric probes into her back.

Doctors say Danielle, who was found to have cocaine and oxycodone in her system at the time, will most likely never wake up. Her mother, Cheryl has been critical of the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles and Florida Department of Law Enforcement telling the Tampa Bay Times she was suing FHP.

Full story and dash-cam video.

More video.

Youtube Video
347 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:56:09am

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

A member of their security showed up riding in a golf cart complete with a flashing red light and security decals all over it and ushered me out. It was pretty amusing.

It wasn't the first or last time something like that happened. When they find out you're the only non-union guy on the job-site things get reaaaalllllly unfriendly. I don't know why but for some reason it's usually the masons that start all the crap with me even more than the ironworkers. I've never had a problem with electricians or plumbers.

348 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:58:06am

re: #347 RogueOne

A member of their security showed up riding in a golf cart complete with a flashing red light and security decals all over it and ushered me out. It was pretty amusing.

It wasn't the first or last time something like that happened. When they find out you're the only non-union guy on the job-site things get reaaallly unfriendly. I don't know why but for some reason it's usually the masons that start all the crap with me even more than the ironworkers. I've never had a problem with electricians or plumbers.

I guess working hard doesn't mean shit over there.

349 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:58:19am

re: #345 Decatur Deb

And if he had been sprinkled with pixie dust he'd be Peter Pan, but he isn't.

I've had guys threaten me with hammers and boards but never pixie dust. I was involved in a mini-riot while building a new jail in Indianapolis. That time they threw a bunch of union guys out with me. One other time they threw out a young mason for giving me a hard time.

350 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:58:52am

re: #348 NJDhockeyfan

I guess working hard doesn't mean shit over there.

union building trades in this state are almost extinct. They're fighting for every job.

351 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 6:59:21am

re: #349 RogueOne

I've had guys threaten me with hammers and boards but never pixie dust. I was involved in a mini-riot while building a new jail in Indianapolis. That time they threw a bunch of union guys out with me. One other time they threw out a young mason for giving me a hard time.

A union guy lays a hand on you, you call a cop. He goes to court--just like in America.

352 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:01:23am

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

Oh brother. If you had been attacked with pipes I'm sure there are some people who would have seen that a justified.

Do please try to remember 1) how many were murdered by Ford, et al, for daring to want a union and 2) that's right in the middle of "right to exploit" country. But hey, Unions are "teh ultimate ebil" aren't they?

Justified in beating him? Of course not. Justified in upholding their "union only" contracts? Damn right, Skippy.

353 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:01:40am

re: #321 Lidane

I had to go look it up, since I'd never heard the phrase "actual innocence" before:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

In other words, he got convicted of a crime, but was able to later go back and prove that he never committed it at all.

.

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

-- Supreme Court Justice Anontin Scalia

354 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:03:48am

re: #351 Decatur Deb

Most hoosiers aren't big on involving the police.//

In all honesty the majority of the time it's no big deal unless it happens to be a government construction site. It's always the younger guys with stickers all over their hardhats that are the issue. During their union training they're completely indoctrinated in the "us vs. them" mentality and they take it pretty seriously for awhile. Usually when it happens I'll go to their boss and let him know his boy is causing trouble and they generally put a stop to it.

355 William of Orange  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:04:34am

More shit Santorum says...

356 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:07:17am

re: #352 William Barnett-Lewis

Unions continue to decline, their busting continues to be endorsed at the highest levels of government, and working conditions, labor pay, etc. continues to decline, while jobs continue to be offshored.

Yay.

357 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:21:13am

Today George Harrison would have been 69. Happy Birthday George!

Youtube Video
358 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:26:34am

re: #352 William Barnett-Lewis

Do please try to remember 1) how many were murdered by Ford, et al, for daring to want a union and 2) that's right in the middle of "right to exploit" country. But hey, Unions are "teh ultimate ebil" aren't they?

Justified in beating him? Of course not. Justified in upholding their "union only" contracts? Damn right, Skippy.

The Hummer plant told us (after the fact) that their contract with the union that covered the building trades in the plant said if any work was going on during the shutdown and any of the employees that were hired to do the work wasn't a union member then they (the union) had to be offered the job. The easiest and quickest way to deal with the issue was to have me leave. I don't know if you know this but in most plants there are multiple union locals, the electricians, the carpenters, plumbers, even the people that sweep the floor have their own local.

Indiana doesn't have union only contracts for government construction projects but they do have prevailing wage laws. Indiana also recently passed the RTW legislation so I think the union only employment anywhere is gone.

359 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:27:56am

re: #354 RogueOne

Most hoosiers aren't big on involving the police.//

In all honesty the majority of the time it's no big deal unless it happens to be a government construction site. It's always the younger guys with stickers all over their hardhats that are the issue. During their union training they're completely indoctrinated in the "us vs. them" mentality and they take it pretty seriously for awhile. Usually when it happens I'll go to their boss and let him know his boy is causing trouble and they generally put a stop to it.

Did 5 years on a GE assembly line. If it's not "us vs. them" it's "me vs. them". "Us" is better.

360 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:29:54am

re: #359 Decatur Deb

Did 5 years on a GE assembly line. If it's not "us vs. them" it's "me vs. them". "Us" is better.

My dad was a GE employee (union member) in Cincy at a plant that manufactured jet engine parts. He welded some stainless fin assembly. I have no idea what it is but now one of them is a paperweight in his office.

361 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:30:59am

Yet another case Berlusconi did not lose.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

362 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:32:23am

re: #360 RogueOne

My dad was a GE employee (union member) in Cincy at a plant that manufactured jet engine parts. He welded some stainless fin assembly. I have no idea what it is but now one of them is a paperweight in his office.

Turbine blades. They're beautiful, like a Brancusi sculpture.

[Link: www.ebay.com...]

363 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:34:10am

re: #360 RogueOne

My dad was a GE employee (union member) in Cincy at a plant that manufactured jet engine parts. He welded some stainless fin assembly. I have no idea what it is but now one of them is a paperweight in his office.

My grandfather was a big union guy. He was a longshoreman in NJ and they made the movie On the Waterfront which is about the pier he worked at.

364 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:34:52am

re: #362 Decatur Deb

It looked more like part off a large squirrel fan if you know what I'm saying. Is "squirrel fan" universal or is that a localism?

365 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:36:49am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

My grandfather was a big union guy. He was a longshoreman in NJ and they made the movie On the Waterfront which is about the pier he worked at.

Going back to the time my grandfather moved the family from kentucky to detroit I'm the only member of my immediate family that hasn't been a union member at some point. That includes my mom, my aunts, uncles, and cousins.

366 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:37:33am

re: #361 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Yet another case Berlusconi did not lose.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

You had to love his "can't tell a naked hooker from a non-hooker" argument.

367 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:37:48am

re: #364 RogueOne

It looked more like part off a large squirrel fan if you know what I'm saying. Is "squirrel fan" universal or is that a localism?

"Squirell cage" fan, probably. Standard language--it creates a bit of humor in A Canticle for Leibowitz.

368 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:39:42am

re: #366 RogueOne

You had to love his "can't tell a naked hooker from a non-hooker" argument.

"I thought it was actually a hookah! Who knew?"

369 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:40:30am

re: #365 RogueOne

Going back to the time my grandfather moved the family from kentucky to detroit I'm the only member of my immediate family that hasn't been a union member at some point. That includes my mom, my aunts, uncles, and cousins.

My uncles were cops in NJ which of course are in unions. I never worked at a place that had unions. My father worked in Virginia Breach at a Volvo plant but never joined the union there. In Virginia you don't have to.

370 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:43:46am

re: #368 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

"I thought it was actually a hookah! Who knew?"

I have a big one in my home office I got in SA. My 19-yr old sis-n-law just finally noticed it and started asking a lot of questions. It's mostly a display piece (it's very decorative, completely handmade) now but we used to use it all the time. It's only been used with completely legal tobacco my bros-in-law used to bring me.

371 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:48:27am

You get a bunch of looks in central indiana when you sit on the front porch with a bunch of brownish skinned guys smoking a hookah.

372 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:49:02am

re: #371 RogueOne

You get a bunch of looks in central indiana when you sit on the front porch with a bunch of brownish skinned guys smoking a hookah.

Envy.

373 kirkspencer  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:51:54am

One of the more frustrating laws for unions is the fact that when they do collective bargaining it has to be for everyone, but not everyone has to be a member. If you had to get all the benefits, more people would join.

374 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:52:22am

Good God, two more Americans killed in Afghanistan. This time by the Taliban.

2 American officers killed in Afghan ministry

Kabul (CNN) -- The Taliban claimed responsibility for an attack Saturday inside the Afghan interior ministry that killed at least two American officers.

NATO and Afghan officials reported the deaths of two American officers inside the ministry in Kabul, prompting Gen. John Allen to order all military advisers with the International Security Assistance Force to withdraw from government ministries in the Afghan capital as a safety precaution.

According to ISAF, initial reports indicated that "an individual" turned his weapon against NATO service members. The agency did not provide the nationalities of the victims, but an Afghan police official confirmed they were American.

The two officers were found dead in their office from gunshot wounds to the head, the Afghan official said.

375 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:55:35am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

Good God, two more Americans killed in Afghanistan. This time by the Taliban.

2 American officers killed in Afghan ministry

So sad. All over a stupid book. It just seems sometimes that there's no way to deal with these people.

376 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:55:53am

re: #372 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Envy.

I've been trying to find a local source for that type of tobacco but haven't had much luck. I could go to Indy somewhere but I'm not that motivated. I'd buy it online I guess. I assume all shisha is the same but I don't know that for a fact.

377 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:57:48am

How soon before Torquemada Jr. starts throwing the word "uppity" around?

"President Obama wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob," Santorum said as the crowd howled with laughter and applause. "There are good, decent men and women who work hard every day and put their skills to the test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor."

378 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 7:58:54am

re: #375 Killgore Trout

So sad. All over a stupid book. It just seems sometimes that there's no way to deal with these people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Taliban will take any chance to kill American soldiers, even without an excuse.

379 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:00:03am
Shoq Value ‏
We can't save a country or planet unless we agree on what threatens them. The Right has rendered all facts dubious. #genius #p2
380 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:00:05am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

Good God, two more Americans killed in Afghanistan. This time by the Taliban.
Must be part of the "peace talks" they're having with Karzai!!

381 Lidane  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:00:31am

re: #375 Killgore Trout

So sad. All over a stupid book. It just seems sometimes that there's no way to deal with these people.

More people have died in the name of religion than damn near anything else on the planet. Are you really that surprised?

Also, what the hell did anyone think was going to happen when copies of the Qu'ran were burned on a US base? Did they think that folks would just see it as a harmless prank or be calm about it?

382 kirkspencer  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:00:39am

re: #376 RogueOne

I've been trying to find a local source for that type of tobacco but haven't had much luck. I could go to Indy somewhere but I'm not that motivated. I'd buy it online I guess. I assume all shisha is the same but I don't know that for a fact.

No, it's not all the same.

It's also known as Mu'assel. The wiki article does a decent job of talking about it. Basically, it's pretty much only going to be sold where there's a largish middle eastern community (different specific ME has different preferences for the mix - see "it's not all the same".)

383 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:01:17am

re: #378 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Taliban will take any chance to kill American soldiers, even without an excuse.

I thought were were having secret meetings with these guys to make them stop killing us. I see how thats working out.

384 kirkspencer  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:04:10am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

I thought were were having secret meetings with these guys to make them stop killing us. I see how thats working out.

You're assuming (a) all taliban are of one unified and controlled block, and (b) they perceive no loss in keeping up the pressure.

385 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:04:39am

re: #378 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Taliban will take any chance to kill American soldiers, even without an excuse.

They hate us because of our freedoms, and because we burn their books.

386 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:04:43am

re: #375 Killgore Trout

So sad. All over a stupid book. It just seems sometimes that there's no way to deal with these people.

No worry, Hamid Karzai will issue an apology for these murders and the other two shortly.
//

387 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:04:46am

re: #382 kirkspencer

The ISNA is located on the west side of Indy. I should call and ask for advice.... The kind I want almost has the consistency of preserves. It's very wet and smells good enough to put on toast.

I should be able to find something there (Plainfield) but I'm rarely on that side of town and when I am I'm usually only there because I'm in a hurry to get to the airport.

388 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:05:32am

re: #384 kirkspencer

You're assuming (a) all taliban are of one unified and controlled block, and (b) they perceive no loss in keeping up the pressure.

You mean there are different flavors of murderous Taliban groups?

389 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:05:42am

re: #378 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Taliban will take any chance to kill American soldiers, even without an excuse.

Also, anyone who wants to call themselves "Taliban" can do so (like "Anonymous"), and any yahoo can claim responsibility for anything. In lots of cases it's local thugs trying to make a name for themselves in their 'hood.

390 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:06:47am

re: #385 Kronocide

They hate us because of our freedoms, and because we burn their books.

Well, no matter how cliche it is "freedoms" is a partial reason for hatred. "Books" are just an excuse though.

391 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:06:57am

re: #382 kirkspencer
Exactly...
Mu‘assel (Arabic: معسل‎ which means "honeyed", also spelled "maasel", "ma'asel", "maassel", "maassell" and "mahsell"), or "Shisha", is a syrupy tobacco mix with molasses and vegetable glycerin which is smoked in a Hookah.

392 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:07:21am

re: #378 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Taliban will take any chance to kill American soldiers, even without an excuse.

True but these seething outrages (burned Qurans, Danish Cartoons, etc) provide them with extra motivation. The pissing on Taliban video never took off, they barely cared about it. There will always be an outrage to seethe over, there's nothing we can do about it.

393 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:07:40am

re: #373 kirkspencer

That's a tough one to balance well. Not everyone wants to be in a union, or is at all happy with their performance. One one hand they need the dues from everyone that benefits, but that excludes some good solid professionals who want no part of the union for whatever reason.

394 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:08:39am

re: #389 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

Also, anyone who wants to call themselves "Taliban" can do so (like "Anonymous"), and any yahoo can c;aim responsibility for anything. In lots of cases it's local thugs trying to make a name for themselves in their 'hood.

So then we can expect the "real" Taliban to denounce these killings saying it wasn't authorized/ condoned by them, right?

395 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:09:25am

re: #389 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

Also, anyone who wants to call themselves "Taliban" can do so (like "Anonymous"), and any yahoo can c;aim responsibility for anything. In lots of cases it's local thugs trying to make a name for themselves in their 'hood.

As opposed to non-local thugs? /

396 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:09:43am

re: #392 Killgore Trout

True but these seething outrages (burned Qurans, Danish Cartoons, etc) provide them with extra motivation. The pissing on Taliban video never took off, they barely cared about it. There will always be an outrage to seethe over, there's nothing we can do about it.

I don't recall any seething carried out by anyone when the Taliban or some other terrorist organization blow up mosques full or Korans.

397 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:09:54am

re: #392 Killgore Trout

I hadn't thought about it until you pointed it out. That does seem a little odd. No riots for the desecration of a corpse but a body count of almost 20 over a book.

398 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:10:07am

re: #390 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Well, no matter how cliche it is "freedoms" is a partial reason for hatred. "Books" are just an excuse though.

Agreed. And the responses to the responses of book burnings are excuses for other things.

399 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:10:32am

Also this doesn't really have anything to do with burned Qurans. Everytime a terrorist blows up a mosque or home Qurans are burned and destroyed. It doesn't cause outrage or riots.

400 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:10:55am

re: #396 NJDhockeyfan

I don't recall any seething carried out by anyone when the Taliban or some other terrorist organization blow up mosques full or Korans.

Yeah, I just thought of that too.

401 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:12:25am

re: #396 NJDhockeyfan

I don't recall any seething carried out by anyone when the Taliban or some other terrorist organization blow up mosques full or Korans.

No, that's called blogging. Of course they seethe on the blogs.

402 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:12:35am

re: #345 Decatur Deb

And if he had been sprinkled with pixie dust he'd be Peter Pan, but he isn't.

That's even funnier the second time I read it. You can't prove I'm not peter pan.

403 kirkspencer  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:12:44am

re: #393 Daniel Ballard

That's a tough one to balance well. Not everyone wants to be in a union, or is at all happy with their performance. One one hand they need the dues from everyone that benefits, but that excludes some good solid professionals who want no part of the union for whatever reason.

No, it's not really tough to balance well. It was part of one of the earliest attempts to throttle unions. Prior to the passage of the Taft-Hartley act, unions could indeed provide solely for their members. The act required the union to negotiate for all workers of the company who were doing the jobs for which negotiation was occurring whether they were members or not. Hartley specifically said one of the major purposes of that section was to prevent full union membership. His position was the unions were secretly all run by communists.

Had that clause not been in there unions would probably be as strong here as they are in other countries.

404 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:12:58am

re: #392 Killgore Trout

Then you have many, many outright fictions that get sent around. Outrageous stuff the media ignores for the BS it is. But from Mullah to Mullah, tiny village to tiny village the rumors and lies abound. Stuff that makes truthers and birthers look like geniuses.

405 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:14:00am

re: #397 RogueOne

I hadn't thought about it until you pointed it out. That does seem a little odd. No riots for the desecration of a corpse but a body count of almost 20 over a book.

The Danish cartoons were published about 6-8 months before riots broke out. There were even printed uncensored in news papers in Egypt, Jordan (and a few other countries IIRC). There was no outrage at the time, it just took a while for Imams to manufacture the outrage.

406 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:14:53am

re: #394 sattv4u2

So then we can expect the "real" Taliban to denounce these killings saying it wasn't authorized/ condoned by them, right?

Just as likely as not, regardless of whether it's true. And if Bob claims credit but the military knows Fred really did it, they're not going to publicly say so.

407 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:15:50am

re: #377 Lidane

How soon before Torquemada Jr. starts throwing the word "uppity" around?

[Embedded content]

"When your kid is raising his own children on eight bucks an hour, you can come to me, and I'll remind you that it was his choice not to go to college."

408 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:17:47am

re: #407 SanFranciscoZionist

"When your kid is raising his own children on eight bucks an hour, you can come to me, and I'll remind you that it was his choice not to go to college."

I know lots of tradesmen who never went to college that make significantly more than 8 bucks an hour
I know lots of college grads that don't make that much!

Just sayin'

409 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:17:54am

NATO is already running away.
[sigh]

Nato pulls out of Afghan ministries after Kabul attack

Nato has withdrawn all its personnel from Afghan ministries after two senior officers were shot dead in the interior ministry building in Kabul.

Nato said an "individual" had turned his gun on the officers, believed to be an American colonel and major, and had not yet been identified or caught.

Nato commander Gen John Allen condemned the attack as "cowardly".

...Local media reports said the gunman was an Afghan policeman but this has not been confirmed.

...The Taliban said in a website statement that it carried out the attack in response to the Koran burnings.

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:18:02am

re: #396 NJDhockeyfan

I don't recall any seething carried out by anyone when the Taliban or some other terrorist organization blow up mosques full or Korans.

There was probably some very, very quiet seething, on the part of people who didn't want to get their asses killed.

But yes, describing these things as spontaneous, or arising out of the individual's desire to avenge Islam is very dicy. These are set pieces.

411 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:20:04am

Iowahawk lionizing Kochs with a Soros Smear:

David Burge ‏ @iowahawkblog
Koch Bros. made billions producing oil. Soros made billions destroying currencies.

412 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:22:11am

re: #411 Kronocide

Iowahawk lionizing Kochs with a Soros Smear:

Iowahawk is just an unfunny wingnut.

413 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:22:28am

and on that note, a nice hot shower and a list of errands beckons

414 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:22:50am

re: #413 sattv4u2

and on that note, a nice hot shower and a list of errands beckons

Me too. Later lizards!

415 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:23:30am

re: #413 sattv4u2

and on that note, a nice hot shower and a list of errands beckons

Those things, they always beckon you. When will YOU beckon them?

416 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:23:33am

re: #408 sattv4u2

I know lots of tradesmen who never went to college that make significantly more than 8 bucks an hour
I know lots of college grads that don't make that much!

Just sayin'

That's true enough.

Santorum's little temper-tantrum about the 'snobbery' of getting a degree that's needed to get your foot in the door in a whole lot of fields (not fancy ones either) is still appalling.

417 kirkspencer  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:23:57am

re: #408 sattv4u2

I know lots of tradesmen who never went to college that make significantly more than 8 bucks an hour
I know lots of college grads that don't make that much!

Just sayin'

Sure. So do I. Heck, my income (despite a master's degree) has been at legal poverty levels for a couple of years now.

But that's using anecdotes to disagree with data. Because for the majority of the public, a college grad earns more money.

418 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:29:51am

re: #417 kirkspencer

Sure. So do I. Heck, my income (despite a master's degree) has been at legal poverty levels for a couple of years now.

But that's using anecdotes to disagree with data. Because for the majority of the public, a college grad earns more money.

For the majority of the public anecdote is equal to data.

419 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:32:05am
Bryan Fischer ‏ @BryanJFischer
Obama apologizes to Muslims for desecrating Korans. How about apologizing to Catholics for violating their conscience?

Contraception = burning of Bibles

420 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:34:10am

Whew.

421 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:34:23am

re: #418 Kronocide

For the majority of the public anecdote is equal to data.

"Those with a college degree earn more than those that don't" doesn't equate to "A college degree will earn you more money". It's not so much the degree, it's the career path.

I've filed this under "nontroversy". I don't think the president really believes "every student should go to college" and Santorum is trying to score points in an area that really isn't on any voters top 10 list.

422 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:45:48am

Morning, my fellow lizards. What's the good words?

423 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:45:53am

Nato pulls out of Afghan ministries after Kabul attack
Scene close to Afghan interior ministry, 25 Feb 2012 Any attacker would have had the highest clearance.

Nato has withdrawn all its personnel from Afghan ministries after two senior officers were shot dead in the interior ministry building in Kabul.

Lost cause.

424 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:46:50am

re: #422 Targetpractice

Morning, my fellow lizards. What's the good words?

Bibles.

425 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:47:58am

re: #424 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Bibles.

Just rip out Leviticus 18:22 and we're good to go.

//

426 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:48:32am

Oops. I ripped out something from the Bible. There are rioters in front of my house!

//

427 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:48:55am

re: #424 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Bibles.

You mean one of the world's oldest collections of fairy tales? Yeah, some of it's good...I guess. Plenty of morality tales in there.

428 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:50:05am

re: #425 Gus

Just rip out Leviticus 18:22 and we're good to go.

//

If we rip out all the objectionable stuff... ever heard of paper spaghetti?

429 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:50:40am

re: #428 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

If we rip out all the objectionable stuff... ever heard of paper spaghetti?

Yep. Hamsters love the stuff.

430 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:50:44am

re: #427 Targetpractice

You mean one of the world's oldest collections of fairy tales? Yeah, some of it's good...I guess. Plenty of morality tales in there.

Don't get me started.

431 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:51:35am

re: #429 Gus

Yep. Hamsters love the stuff.

I will come to your house and stone you while seething.

432 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:52:29am

Then again, maybe I better get stoned myself.

433 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:52:40am

I got defriended and blocked on Facebook for answering this question:

Why do we choose from just two people for President and 50 for Miss America?

My answer:

Do I really need to explain the differences between a US Presidential election and a beauty pageant?

And that's how the fight started (ended).

434 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:52:46am

re: #421 RogueOne

"Those with a college degree earn more than those that don't" doesn't equate to "A college degree will earn you more money". It's not so much the degree, it's the career path.

I've filed this under "nontroversy". I don't think the president really believes "every student should go to college" and Santorum is trying to score points in an area that really isn't on any voters top 10 list.

Oh, it's definitely a nontroversy. It's hardly even a versy. It's just...Santorum. He's starting to get on my nerves.

435 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:53:08am

re: #426 Gus

Oops. I ripped out something from the Bible. There are rioters in front of my house!

//

It would be alright if you dropped trou and pee'd on it.

436 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:53:42am

Sort of relevant. Has everyone seen this already?:

Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Prof Dawkins said that he was “6.9 out of seven” sure of his beliefs.

“I think the probability of a supernatural creator existing is very very low,” he added.

He also said that he believed it was highly likely that there was life on other planets.

No offense to anyone here but I'm 7.0 sure but now I'm only 6.9/7 sure that dawkins hasn't been taken over by the pod people.

Image: im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens.jpg

437 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:54:37am

re: #433 Kronocide

I got defriended and blocked on Facebook for answering this question:

Why do we choose from just two people for President and 50 for Miss America?

My answer:

Do I really need to explain the differences between a US Presidential election and a beauty pageant?

And that's how the fight started (ended).

I don't think of them as presidential elections anymore, but rather "American Idol: Presidential Edition." Because, let's be honest, while we may be voting on the issues, the vast majority of the American public votes on the guy who looks best on TV. Been that way since the Kennnedy/Nixon debates.

438 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:54:41am

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, it's definitely a nontroversy. It's hardly even a versy. It's just...Santorum. He's starting to get on my nerves.

I can completely understand that

439 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:56:02am

re: #436 RogueOne

Sort of relevant. Has everyone seen this already?:

Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

No offense to anyone here but I'm 7.0 sure but now I'm only 6.9/7 sure that dawkins hasn't been taken over by the pod people.

Image: im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens.jpg

Eh. Um. That's not news. It's at least as old as The God Delusion book.

440 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:57:20am

re: #439 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Eh. Um. That's not news. It's at least as old as The God Delusion book.

The Telegraph is being dopey again. Just like the whole slavery crap. Dumb.

441 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:57:50am

"Your ancient ancestors owned slaves therefore your argument is invalid!"

Derp.

442 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:58:06am

"Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist"

[Dobro slide]

443 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:58:35am

re: #439 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

I've never heard him call himself agnostic. I make fun of agnostics.

444 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:58:42am

re: #442 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

"Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist"

[Dobro slide]

[Juice harp]

445 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:59:01am

re: #436 RogueOne

No offense to anyone here but I'm 7.0 sure but now I'm only 6.9/7 sure that dawkins hasn't been taken over by the pod people.

I don't trust anybody who is sure of anything 7.0 out of 7.0.

446 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 8:59:23am

BREAKING: Christians believe that Jesus was resurrected! Developing...

447 Amory Blaine  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:00:00am

He he. Pat says "I think you're in trouble moving into that other area"

Other area? So to Pat, The general election is "the other" for him.

448 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:00:11am

re: #446 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

BREAKING: Christians believe that Jesus was resurrected! Developing...

How sure are they?

Well. Most say 6.9 out of 7.0.

//

449 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:00:15am

re: #443 RogueOne

I've never heard him call himself agnostic. I make fun of agnostics.

I don't think he calls himself an agnostic. His is a standard atheist position, BTW.

450 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:00:27am

re: #446 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

BREAKING: Christians believe that Jesus was resurrected! Developing...

I'm starting to get the impression you're making fun of me....

451 jaunte  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:00:52am

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

It's just...Santorum. He's starting to get on my nerves.

Reading a NYMag piece on the race so far by John Heileman, who writes this about Santorum:

“In the Senate as well as his home state, Santorum often struck people as arrogant and headstrong, preachy and judgmental,” writes Byron York in the Washington Examiner. Or, as a Republican lobbyist puts it to me, “When he was in the Senate, he was probably the most friendless guy there.”
[Link: nymag.com...]

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:00:59am

re: #443 RogueOne

I've never heard him call himself agnostic. I make fun of agnostics.

I like agnostics. Agnostics rarely carry on about how important their agnostic beliefs are.

453 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:01:49am

re: #450 RogueOne

I'm starting to get the impression you're making fun of me...

Of Telegraph, actually. But if you want, I can taunt you too. Your father smelled of elderberries.

454 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:01:54am

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

I like agnostics. Agnostics rarely carry on about how important their agnostic beliefs are.

I only do it out of love. Equal opportunity offender and all.

455 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:03:08am

I'm an agnostic, BTW. As well as an atheist. Nope, there is no contradiction.

456 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:03:30am

re: #453 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Of Telegraph, actually. But if you want, I can taunt you too. Your father smelled of elderberries.

I have big shoulders, I can take it//

457 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:04:29am

I'm a hungry.

//

458 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:04:44am

There are several kinds of agnosticism and several kinds of atheism. They intersect.

459 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:05:31am

re: #457 Gus

I'm a hungry.

//

Do you also live under a bridge?
And are you concerned sometimes?

//

460 Amory Blaine  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:05:53am

A little mockery of all our belief systems is good.

461 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:06:16am

re: #458 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

All the cool kids are atheists. The agnostic clan is full of wishy-washy types too afraid to take a stand.

462 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:06:38am

re: #459 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Do you also live under a bridge?
And are you concerned sometimes?

//

I don't know. I'm really not quite sure.

//

463 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:06:53am

re: #460 Amory Blaine

A little mockery of all our belief systems is good.

This is discrimination against those who don't have a belief system!//

464 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:08:06am

re: #463 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

This is discrimination against those who don't have a belief system!//

This is disenfranchising the self-disenfranchised.

//

465 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:08:17am

re: #436 RogueOne

Sort of relevant. Has everyone seen this already?:

Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

No offense to anyone here but I'm 7.0 sure but now I'm only 6.9/7 sure that dawkins hasn't been taken over by the pod people.

Image: im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens.jpg

Other "famous" atheists have said the same, and I take it to mean that they can't prove it, obviously.

However I think the point would be better understood if they said "I can't be 100% sure that the universe wasn't created, deliberately, by beings in another universe in the multiverse doing experiments.

Alternatively, there is always the flying spaghetti monster.

466 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:08:27am

re: #461 RogueOne

All the cool kids are atheists. The agnostic clan is full of wishy-washy types too afraid to take a stand.

You should tell that to Decatur Deb. Prepare to be snickered at!

/(as I said, there is no either/or division)

467 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:09:45am

On a scale of 0 to 7.0, I consider myself a 10.0.

//

468 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:10:29am

re: #467 Gus

On a scale of 0 to 7.0, I consider myself a 10.0.

//

Yeah. There are 10 kinds of people: those who get binary and those who don't.

469 allegro  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:11:33am

re: #436 RogueOne

Sort of relevant. Has everyone seen this already?:

Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

No offense to anyone here but I'm 7.0 sure but now I'm only 6.9/7 sure that dawkins hasn't been taken over by the pod people.

Image: im-not-saying-its-aliens-but-its-aliens.jpg

Dawkins is a scientist. There are no absolutes in science since there is always a possibility - in this case enormously remote - that data could be presented to alter the existing or prevailing science.

470 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:12:40am

re: #469 allegro

Dawkins is a scientist. There are no absolutes in science since there is always a possibility - in this case enormously remote - that data could be presented to alter the existing or prevailing science.

The God-question is not scientific, though. And there are plenty of scientists who believe in God(s) without doubt.

471 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:13:08am

re: #468 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Yeah. There are 10 kinds of people: those who get binary and those who don't.

Binary can work as long as you don't recruit.

Well. We can always start driving people crazy by reminding them that there are no races.

472 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:14:07am

Someone better tell Canadian they're on to him...

This Week in Civil Liberties (2/24/12)
Is CCA Trying to Take Over the World?
[Link: www.aclu.org...]

473 jaunte  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:14:12am

re: #471 Gus

That's just going to kill attendance at the Olympics.

474 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:14:40am

re: #470 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

The God-question is not scientific, though. And there are plenty of scientists who believe in God(s) without doubt.

IOW, Dawkins could say that God absolutely does not exist, and he would be no less a scientist for that.

475 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:15:25am

re: #472 RogueOne

So that's why he's been so busy lately.

476 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:15:41am

re: #470 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

The God-question is not scientific, though. And there are plenty of scientists who believe in God(s) without doubt.

An atheist, a Muslim and a Jew get stranded on a deserted island...

477 allegro  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:16:44am

re: #470 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

The God-question is not scientific, though. And there are plenty of scientists who believe in God(s) without doubt.

Sure it is if you base your views of the universe on evidence. There is no falsifiable evidence at this point to support the existence of any supreme beings. Should such evidence arise, those views could change.

478 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:17:52am

re: #477 allegro

Sure it is if you base your views of the universe on evidence. There is no falsifiable evidence at this point to support the existence of any supreme beings. Should such evidence arise, those views could change.

Uh, no. It's a philosophical and religious question. Not everything evidence-based is scientific.

479 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:18:50am

When I say that Obama was born in the US, it's not a scientific assertion. Let's not confuse things.

480 compound_Idaho  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:19:55am

re: #460 Amory Blaine

A little mockery of all our belief systems is good.

The high school youth group watched "Life of Brian" at church the other night.

481 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:22:08am

FL Lawmaker Resigns After Sending ‘Sexxxy Mama’ Texts To Federal Prosecutor

Lolderp.

482 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:22:20am

I try to be a "glass half-full" type so I guess I should be happy that this kind of overprotective insanity isn't just an problem in the US and it could always be worse:

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school
[Link: www.therecord.com...]

KITCHENER — A Kitchener father is upset that police arrested him at his children’s’ school Wednesday, hauled him down to the station and strip-searched him, all because his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a gun at school.

“I’m picking up my kids and then, next thing you know, I’m locked up,” Jessie Sansone, 26, said Thursday.

“I was in shock. This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school.”

The school principal, police and child welfare officials, however, all stand by their actions. They said they had to investigate to determine whether there was a gun in Sansone’s house that children had access to.

483 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:23:15am

re: #479 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

When I say that Obama was born in the US, it's not a scientific assertion. Let's not confuse things.

uh-oh, a birther!//

484 jaunte  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:25:15am

re: #482 RogueOne

I wonder if her drawing looked like this:
Image: Mickey_Gun1--article_image.jpg

485 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:27:00am

study suggests drones kill far fewer civilians than many Pakistanis believe

the AP was told by the villagers that of at least 194 people killed in the attacks, about 70 percent _ at least 138 _ were militants. The remaining 56 were either civilians or tribal police, and 38 of them were killed in a single attack on March 17, 2011.

Excluding that strike, which inflicted one of the worst civilian death tolls since the drone program started in Pakistan, nearly 90 percent of the people killed were militants, villagers said.

486 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:27:24am

re: #484 jaunte

I wonder if her drawing looked like this:
Image: Mickey_Gun1--article_image.jpg

Ha! FTA:

The detective told him that his four-year-old daughter had drawn a picture of a man holding a gun. When a teacher asked her who the man was, the girl replied, “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”

They didn't find any guns in the search. They don't mention anything about the monsters either. I think that's important enough to tell everyone. Were there monsters or not?

487 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:27:30am

re: #482 RogueOne

I try to be a "glass half-full" type so I guess I should be happy that this kind of overprotective insanity isn't just an problem in the US and it could always be worse:

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school
[Link: www.therecord.com...]

I knew what a SCUD was when I was 8.
Good grief, this over protectiveness is stupid.

488 jaunte  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:28:05am

re: #486 RogueOne

"Monsters still unaccounted for."

489 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:29:37am

re: #483 RogueOne

uh-oh, a birther!//

Burn me. //

490 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:29:42am

re: #487 Varek Raith

I knew what a SCUD was when I was 8.
Good grief, this over protectiveness is stupid.

While my buddy was gone on active duty his little boy (6-ish) would tell people he was using his daddy's BAR to protect the house.

491 Sionainn  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:30:13am

re: #433 Kronocide

I got defriended and blocked on Facebook for answering this question:

Why do we choose from just two people for President and 50 for Miss America?

My answer:

Do I really need to explain the differences between a US Presidential election and a beauty pageant?

And that's how the fight started (ended).

Troublemaker.
/

492 jaunte  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:30:38am

re: #486 RogueOne

The father's basic mistake was in choosing not to be an important football coach.

493 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:31:32am

re: #487 Varek Raith

I knew what a SCUD was when I was 8.

And used it when you were 9. /

494 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:31:47am

re: #489 Pam and Bob Sitting in a Tree

Burn me. //

Noogie!

495 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:31:52am

We had Apache attack helicopters land at our elementary school when I was a kid.
It.
Was.
Awesome.

496 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:32:00am

re: #492 jaunte

The father's basic mistake was in choosing not to be an important football coach.

Hockey... he's Canadian, they don't play "real" football.

497 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:32:47am

bee bee el

498 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:33:00am
Youtube Video
499 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:33:28am
500 CuriousLurker  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:33:49am

re: #377 Lidane

How soon before Torquemada Jr. starts throwing the word "uppity" around?

[Embedded content]

From the article:

"That's why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image," Santorum said to more applause. "I want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image, not his."

Hmm, and here I thought most people wanted their children to have better lives & opportunities than they did. Guess I was wrong.

501 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:34:40am

re: #499 Gus

[Embedded content]

Clearly Santorum was conspiring to persecute Christians.

//

502 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:35:54am

re: #495 Varek Raith

We had Apache attack helicopters land at our elementary school when I was a kid.
It.
Was.
Awesome.

The school thought his boy was a little slow and they wanted to hold him back. The little kid knew all the stats for light infantry weapons usage while failing all his school work. He wasn't slow, he just had other interests. His dad was an infantry drill sergeant and the kid (being a normal boy) was obviously fascinated.

503 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:38:20am

re: #499 Gus

Well, I think we can now safely say that the GOP field doesn't have a single candidate for whom the word "consistency" could be applied.

504 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:38:50am

re: #503 Targetpractice

Well, I think we can now safely say that the GOP field doesn't have a single candidate for whom the word "consistency" could be applied.

Incorrect.
They are consistently inconsistent.

505 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:39:20am

re: #495 Varek Raith

We had Apache attack helicopters land at our elementary school when I was a kid.
It.
Was.
Awesome.

I put together a recruiting lecture for the USAF in 8th grade. Got the wheels rolling through letter writing (typewriter). Met the two officers who flew in to Lakehurst NAS in a T-33 and I met them on the flight line. Never did join anything though.

506 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:40:21am

re: #504 Varek Raith

Incorrect.
They are consistently inconsistent.

*rimshot*

507 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:42:02am

Laters.

508 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:42:53am

Hyde EDL protest: Hundreds gather in town centre

About 600 people gathered in Hyde town centre for a demonstration organised by the English Defence League (EDL), police said.

509 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:44:23am

re: #508 Gus

Hyde EDL protest: Hundreds gather in town centre

Just give me that ol'-time xenophobia.

//

510 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:45:21am

re: #509 Targetpractice

Just give me that ol'-time xenophobia.

//

Image: x610.jpg

Derp.

This is from the 4th. The other gathering is from today.

511 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:49:07am

re: #510 Gus

He must have mugged Ronald McDonald to get those boots.

512 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:50:38am

Looks like the police finally cleared them out of Hyde.

513 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:51:29am

re: #510 Gus

Image: x610.jpg

Derp.

This is from the 4th. The other gathering is from today.

If that's who's supposed to be saving Britain from the "invading hordes," then they're fucked.

514 RogueOne  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:54:37am

I'm finally motivated enough. Enjoy the day people!

515 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:54:41am

re: #513 Targetpractice

If that's who's supposed to be saving Britain from the "invading hordes," then they're fucked.

SNAFU with the EDL. Nothing's changed including the usual suspects on the periphery.

516 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:56:37am

re: #511 RogueOne

He must have mugged Ronald McDonald to get those boots.

Or a Mexican wrestler...

517 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:57:00am

re: #516 talon_262

Or a Mexican wrestler...

He needs a bee suit.

518 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:59:32am

Your "Captain Obvious" headline of the day goes to Yahoo!:

Israeli attack on Iran might pull US into new war

WASHINGTON (AP) — An Israeli pre-emptive attack on Iran's nuclear sites could draw the U.S. into a new Mideast conflict, a prospect dreaded by a war-weary Pentagon wary of new entanglements.

That could mean pressing into service the top tier of American firepower — warplanes, warships, special operations forces and possibly airborne infantry — with unpredictable outcomes in one of the world's most volatile regions.

"Israel can commence a war with Iran, but it may well take U.S. involvement to conclude it," says Karim Sadjadpour, a Middle East specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

519 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 9:59:51am

Meanwhile in Scotland:

Counter-demo over far-right protest
Published on Saturday 25 February 2012 16:47

Around 200 officers are on hand to police an unauthorised demonstration by a far-right group, an MSP has claimed.

Police and riot vans gathered at Glasgow's St Enoch Square to meet demonstrators from the Scottish Defence League (SDL). Opponents of the SDL have branded them "neo-Nazis masquerading under the flag of Scotland".

The SDL had applied to Glasgow City Council to hold a parade through the city, but their application was withdrawn after political party leaders, trade unions, religious groups and campaigners signed an open letter in protest at the march...

520 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:01:43am

re: #519 Gus

Meanwhile in Scotland:

Counter-demo over far-right protest
Published on Saturday 25 February 2012 16:47

They were surrounded. Very low turnout for the Scottish version, the SDL.

521 William of Orange  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:02:01am

And there we have it. people! The Dutch are mad at Santorum. And even Rachel noticed it.


(Cool to know though that she also is of Dutch heritage!)

Youtube Video
522 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:08:43am

re: #518 Targetpractice

Your "Captain Obvious" headline of the day goes to Yahoo!:

Israeli attack on Iran might pull US into new war

One of the things the US Chair Force fails to accept. That an air strike on Iranian nuclear facilities wouldn't result in retaliatory strikes by Iran. At this point it's safe to assume that any air strike against said facilities would result in all out war.

523 Interesting Times  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:08:56am

re: #521 William of Orange

And there we have it. people! The Dutch are mad at Santorum. And even Rachel noticed it.

524 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:15:02am

re: #522 Gus

One of the things the US Chair Force fails to accept. That an air strike on Iranian nuclear facilities wouldn't result in retaliatory strikes by Iran. At this point it's safe to assume that any air strike against said facilities would result in all out war.

The reality is that an Israeli airstrike on Iran will lead to consequences for us, not simply the Israelis. Folks think gas prices are high now, imagine what they're going to be when Iran turns off the tap and tries to embargo oil in the Strait.

525 Obdicut  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:20:54am

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

I like agnostics. Agnostics rarely carry on about how important their agnostic beliefs are.

Nah, agnostics can be just as snotty-- especially towards atheists, who they tend to badger with "But you can't KNOW there's not a god." Great. Thanks, shut up, go away.

526 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:23:25am

'Stay home on Election Day' Green Council calls on Iranians

In addition to a full boycott, the Council also invited Green Movement supporters to make their presence felt in public spaces on the eve of parliamentary elections (1 March), with the purpose of “raising awareness” about the illegitimacy of the elections. “The Green Path of Hope will remain green until the very end and will not use its hope for prosperity for the people of this land.”

As the Majlis elections draw near, there is a growing concern amongst Iran's ruling elite over a low turnout on voting day, especially as the rigged 2009 presidential election and its aftermath are still fresh in the people's memory. The Islamic Republic's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei recently called for the people's mass participation in the elections.

This is the first time since the 1979 revolution that all major opposition groups and factions, including the country's reformist parties are firmly backing an all-out boycott of the elections.

527 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:23:36am

re: #518 Targetpractice

Your "Captain Obvious" headline of the day goes to Yahoo!:

Israeli attack on Iran might pull US into new war

I still think Israel will do something else. The consequences or attacking are too great. What I am starting to worry about is some grand demonstration of strength. A major upgrade of their nuclear arsenal, or real underground tests of advanced warheads like emp or neutron weapons. Or an aggressive series of unarmed ballistic missile tests. Some gambit like that.

528 Gus  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:24:07am

re: #524 Targetpractice

The reality is that an Israeli airstrike on Iran will lead to consequences for us, not simply the Israelis. Folks think gas prices are high now, imagine what they're going to be when Iran turns off the tap and tries to embargo oil in the Strait.

Yes. It couldn't be a limited air strike. Due to the potential for retaliation you would therefore have to "knock out" a considerable amount of their infrastructure including and especially military facilities. Lots of other repercussions to address including a newly emboldened regime and an act that would really benefit the Ayatollahs.

529 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:25:15am

re: #526 Killgore Trout

'Stay home on Election Day' Green Council calls on Iranians

My boss is an Iranian ex-pat, we've discussed Iranian politics on more than one occasion. And one of his points of disgust was the boycotts the last go-around, which let the extremists run virtually unchallenged because the few reformers who did run just got "disqualified."

530 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:28:50am

re: #527 Daniel Ballard

I still think Israel will do something else. The consequences or attacking are too great. What I am starting to worry about is some grand demonstration of strength. A major upgrade of their nuclear arsenal, or real underground tests of advanced warheads like emp or neutron weapons. Or an aggressive series of unarmed ballistic missile tests. Some gambit like that.

If one believes that Iran is pursuing nuclear fire, the last thing you'd want to do is play into their hands by demonstrating why they "need" such weapons for "defense." Could Israel seriously continue to claim that any actions on its part are "defensive" if it starts undertaking blatantly aggressive moves like testing new weapons out in the open?

531 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:29:04am

re: #529 Targetpractice

My boss is an Iranian ex-pat, we've discussed Iranian politics on more than one occasion. And one of his points of disgust was the boycotts the last go-around, which let the extremists run virtually unchallenged because the few reformers who did run just got "disqualified."

I'm not so sure it makes much diference, the candidates are all pre-approved by the religious leaders and the whole thing is rigged to bot allow any sort of change or moderation. The boycotts remove the legitimacy of the government. Absurdly low turnout shows the government does not have the support of the people.

532 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:31:29am

re: #531 Killgore Trout

I'm not so sure it makes much diference, the candidates are all pre-approved by the religious leaders and the whole thing is rigged to bot allow any sort of change or moderation. The boycotts remove the legitimacy of the government. Absurdly low turnout shows the government does not have the support of the people.

Voter turnouts in this country are edging into a majority of folks simply not voting. Our last president had approval ratings in the low 20s when he left office and Congress doesn't even enjoy that. So we've little room to talk.

533 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:32:25am

re: #527 Daniel Ballard

I still think Israel will do something else. The consequences or attacking are too great. What I am starting to worry about is some grand demonstration of strength. A major upgrade of their nuclear arsenal, or real underground tests of advanced warheads like emp or neutron weapons. Or an aggressive series of unarmed ballistic missile tests. Some gambit like that.

There are probably options we haven't considered. I don't think any of us would have ever imagined something like Suxtnet virus. There are some very creative people out there with ideas we would never think of. Anything can happen, I would actually be sort of surprised to see something as mundane as targeted strikes on research and enrichment facilities.

534 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:33:18am

re: #530 Targetpractice

If one believes that Iran is pursuing nuclear fire, the last thing you'd want to do is play into their hands by demonstrating why they "need" such weapons for "defense." Could Israel seriously continue to claim that any actions on its part are "defensive" if it starts undertaking blatantly aggressive moves like testing new weapons out in the open?

I see it as a possibility. The conclusion might be sheer stark deterrence will work out better than an attack, which will just as surely harden Iranian desire for nuclear weapons, if at some further future time.

Let me say it this way. If they decide sanctions are not working and attacking will trigger a war that is too destructive to contemplate, what options remain?

535 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:34:30am

re: #533 Killgore Trout

There are probably options we haven't considered. I don't think any of us would have ever imagined something like Suxtnet virus. There are some very creative people out there with ideas we would never think of. Anything can happen, I would actually be sort of surprised to see something as mundane as targeted strikes on research and enrichment facilities.

Exactly my thinking. Some real surprise. When I said gambit I did mean it in that dangerous chess context. It's an "all in" tactic.

536 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:36:47am

re: #534 Daniel Ballard

I see it as a possibility. The conclusion might be sheer stark deterrence will work out better than an attack, which will just as surely harden Iranian desire for nuclear weapons, if at some further future time.

Let me say it this way. If they decide sanctions are not working and attacking will trigger a war that is too destructive to contemplate, what options remain?

It's pretty certain that sanctions and diplomacy will fail. Covert sabotage may work. If military options aren't viable or seen as too disruptive then the only choice is to allow them the bomb and hope for the best.

537 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:37:51am

re: #534 Daniel Ballard

I see it as a possibility. The conclusion might be sheer stark deterrence will work out better than an attack, which will just as surely harden Iranian desire for nuclear weapons, if at some further future time.

Let me say it this way. If they decide sanctions are not working and attacking will trigger a war that is too destructive to contemplate, what options remain?

Any aggressive moves against Iran at this juncture play into the regime's hands, giving them "proof" that they need nuclear weapons as a means of defense. The more we apply pressure on the regime through non-aggressive moves, such as strangling their economy and increasing hardship for the people, the better our chances that the regime will fall and one that will abstain from such research will rise in its place.

538 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:44:52am

re: #537 Targetpractice

Any aggressive moves against Iran at this juncture play into the regime's hands, giving them "proof" that they need nuclear weapons as a means of defense. The more we apply pressure on the regime through non-aggressive moves, such as strangling their economy and increasing hardship for the people, the better our chances that the regime will fall and one that will abstain from such research will rise in its place.

I agree, I'm just not convinced that Israel will hew to that conclusion.

539 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 25, 2012 10:47:49am

re: #538 Daniel Ballard

I agree, I'm just not convinced that Israel will hew to that conclusion.

I'm of the opinion that Israel's open threats of an air strike are their only means of saber-rattling at this point.


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