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428 comments

1 SteveMcG  Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:42:15pm

I think the lizards are exhausted too.

2 freetoken  Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:51:33pm
An era can be said to end when its basic illusions are exhausted.

Applies to so much of pop culture of America.

3 freetoken  Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:52:52pm

Gardening.

I propose that if more Americans had to grow a noticeable amount of their own food then we'd be much better off, not just health-wise but with our social interactions and cultural dynamics.

4 Kragar  Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:42:03pm

Adam Sandler sets a new record

Adam Sandler broke one of Hollywood's most undesirable records Sunday: He received the most Razzie nominations ever by a star in one year. The annual Golden Raspberry Awards, now in their 32nd year, reward the worst in film, and Sandler received a record 11 nods for his work as a writer, actor, and producer in a trio of critically-ravaged 2011 films — Jack and Jill, Just Go With It, and Bucky Larson: Born to Be a Star. Though Sandler's been branded "the patron saint of scathing critical responses," he nevertheless remains one of Hollywood's few reliable box office stars.

5 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 12:08:24am

re: #4 Kragar

that guy's laughing all the way to the bank

It'd be like giving GWAR a razzie, they'd just make a razzie costume and sodomize it

6 freetoken  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 12:34:42am

1961 - a year in American pop music in which the billboard top hits have proven to have good staying power as iconic American music. Among those with hits that year was Connie Francis:

7 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:23:33am

So Mitt can start venturing back to the middle now, or does he wait until after Super Tuesday just to be sure?

8 researchok  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:28:10am

Morning, all

9 researchok  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:32:20am

re: #6 freetoken

Great music, great lyrics.

I do wonder about the nostalgia thing- was life really so much simpler back then?

10 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:36:13am

re: #9 researchok

Great movie too. I saw at the theater when I was six. Probably the first spring break movie.

11 freetoken  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:37:36am

re: #9 researchok

I do wonder about the nostalgia thing- was life really so much simpler back then?

"An era can be said to end when its basic illusions are exhausted."

The assassinations and the Vietnam war exhausted the illusions, and that era is gone forever.

As they said back in 1961, "milk and honey on the other side":

12 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:46:15am

I vaguely remember the Cuban missile Crisis as a kid, I thought it would be totally cool to have a bunker in the backyard to use as a playhouse.

13 researchok  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 1:52:06am

re: #11 freetoken

It's true- the assassinations and Vietnam changed everything.

There is a seminal point in every life where we come to realize our parents are less than perfect- they can be wrong in a big way.

Until then, we blame ourselves, defend them and do their bidding- and if we don't or things go wrong, the fault is our own.

Then we start to grow up.

14 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:00:40am

re: #6 freetoken

very very few of these songs speak to me at all: [Link: www.musicoutfitters.com...]

1961 might have been good for you, but eh, not so much for me ;-) when i think of iconic american music, I often go to punk bands and seminal rock, Social Distortion, The Stooges, Springsteen

15 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:02:45am

My older sister was really big into Beatlemania but lost interest in them when they grew long hair and went psychedelic.

I did not "rediscover" them until after they had broken up.

16 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:42:38am

this thread is as dead as the beatles...

17 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:53:17am

No, my friend. As long as there is the spirit of patriotism and honor, this thread is not dead. As long as men yearn and hunger for justice and truth and righteousness this thread is not dead. As long as men lift up their eyes to heaven and with tears streaming down their cheeks and their hands reaching to God vowing fidelity to American ideals, this thread is not dead!

(unless I just killed it.)

18 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:53:57am

re: #17 EdDantes

As long as men lift up their eyes to heaven and with tears streaming down their cheeks and their hands reaching to God vowing fidelity to American ideals, this thread is not dead!

Gee, I hope they're not driving.

19 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:55:38am

I am just killing time waiting for a proofreading job to show up...

20 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 2:56:13am

re: #18 Obdicut

That would be unfortunate, but entertaining.

21 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:04:52am

If given a choice between fidelity to American ideals and fidelity to his current wife, we all know what a true patriot would choose!

22 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:09:06am

re: #21 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I hope America holds an aspirin between her knees.

23 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:09:15am

Morning Folks. My jury duty ended before it even got a chance to get started. I'm actually a little sad.

24 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:13:26am

re: #22 Obdicut

I hope America holds an aspirin between her knees.

Or, the chicken.

25 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:20:36am

This is getting really ridiculous.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

Basically, corporations are people, unless you want to sue them for violations of some laws, like the ones against, oh, piracy, kidnapping, and torture. Then you can only sue 'natural persons'.

26 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:22:11am

re: #25 Obdicut

It's all about having the best of both legal forms and the disadvantages of neither...

27 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:26:40am

Good for Stephen Hawking. He's a perv like the rest of us.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

28 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:41:40am

re: #27 EdDantes

Good for Stephen Hawking. He's a perv like the rest of us.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

not at all concerned at all unless he was doing it at the taxpayers' expense

29 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:42:58am

re: #3 freetoken

Victory Gardens. I don't think that's ever gone away,but I think you're right that food and the growing,prepping and cooking of it could help bring people together.

30 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:46:29am

re: #29 A Mom Anon

The problem with an extreme Free Market ideology is that it often ignores the inherent values of certain activities that cannot be quantified by the market.

Food is not just a commodity, it is a vital part of our existence. We see this in our overreaction to anything to do with eating, from popular infatuation with the latest diet trend to right-wing outrage over Michelle Obama's nutritional advice.

31 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:54:47am

re: #28 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

not at all concerned at all unless he was doing it at the taxpayers' expense

I'm not in the least bit concerned either. I meant, "good for stephen Hawking." He's a man and having fun.

32 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:54:53am

re: #28 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

not at all concerned at all unless he was doing it at the taxpayers' expense

I've already seen the video:

33 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:57:13am

re: #31 EdDantes

I'm not in the least bit concerned either. I meant, "good for stephen Hawking." He's a man and having fun.

Well, men are allowed and encouraged to do such things. Women who do so are sluts who need to be shamed in public, though...

/

34 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 3:59:02am

Joan Walsh uses Mormon joke, quickly retracts:

Salon’s Joan Walsh Draws Controversy After Tweeting Mormon ‘Joke’ Targeting Romney
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

Salon Editor-In-Chief Joan Walsh ignited a firestorm of controversy after she tweeted a joke critical of Mormons at Mitt Romney‘s expense. Alluding to the Mormon tradition of post-mortem baptisms, Walsh derisively wrote “Romney’s saving the soul of America – so he doesn’t have to baptize us after we’re dead.”

Personally I think that's funny.

35 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:02:41am

re: #34 RogueOne

This is the standard tactic of various religions: they shove their odd beliefs in our faces until we react.

And even if we do so light-heartedly and wittily, they take it as an offense and intolerance towards their deeply-held religious beliefs that you can retroactively baptize dead Holocaust victims.

36 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:08:03am

re: #35 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I don't know that I'd say that but if you're spending your time "baptizing" dead people you should expect a little teasing about it. Also, I don't feel the need to agree with a persons political viewpoints to recognize a good zinger and Joan's was a good one.

37 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:11:15am

Fears grow of Israel-Iran missile shootout
[Link: openchannel.msnbc.msn.com...]

The emerging consensus among current and former U.S. officials and other experts interviewed by NBC News is that that an Israeli attack would be a multi-faceted assault on key Iranian nuclear installations, involving strikes by both warplanes and missiles. It could also include targeted attacks by Israeli special operations forces and possibly even the use of massive explosives-laden drones, they say.
....
“Two words: Jericho missiles,” said one former White House and Pentagon official, speaking on condition of anonymity, when asked how Israel would attack Iranian targets at great distances. “They are conventionally armed, have a very small CEP (circular error of probability, meaning they are highly accurate) and can be used in conjunction with a strike fighter operation.”

What a great name for a missile platform "Jericho".

38 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:11:43am

The point that needs to be made about the Mormon Church is that they are a very secretive, patriarchal and socially conservative organization. One that actively excluded blacks until threatened with loss of their tax-exempt status.

Although I appreciate their emphasis on the family, I still have some concerns about aspects their own private agenda that they are not sharing with the rest of the world.

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:18:55am

re: #38 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

The point that needs to be made about the Mormon Church is that they are a very secretive, patriarchal and socially conservative organization. One that actively excluded blacks until threatened with loss of their tax-exempt status.

Although I appreciate their emphasis on the family, I still have some concerns about aspects their own private agenda that they are not sharing with the rest of the world.

They did not exclude blacks. They did not let blacks be ordained to any priesthood offices. I.e. what the Catholic and Orthodox churches and many Jewish and Muslim denominations do to women.

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:19:56am

re: #36 RogueOne

I don't know that I'd say that but if you're spending your time "baptizing" dead people you should expect a little teasing about it. Also, I don't feel the need to agree with a persons political viewpoints to recognize a good zinger and Joan's was a good one.

If you spend your time baptizing people, praying or taking any scriptures seriously, you should expect a little teasing about it.

41 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:21:52am

re: #40 Sergey Romanov

If you spend your time baptizing people, praying or taking any scriptures seriously, you should expect a little teasing about it.

Again, I don't know about that, generally baptisms involve live people making conscious decisions. It's the baptizing dead people that I find amusing.

42 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:23:59am

Good night, everyone.

43 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:24:05am

re: #41 RogueOne

Again, I don't know about that, generally baptisms involve live people making conscious decisions. It's the baptizing dead people that I find amusing.

I thought the point was the absurdity of rites. And baptizing the dead doesn't strike me any more absurd than baptizing the living.
As for decisions, again, if you believe that stuff, the dead will make a decision in the afterlife whether to accept the baptism or not.

44 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:29:26am

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

They did not exclude blacks. They did not let blacks be ordained to any priesthood offices. I.e. what the Catholic and Orthodox churches and many Jewish and Muslim denominations do to women.

I see inded that there wre black Mormons, just second-class Mormons, like women are second-class Catholics and Muslims...

The point is that the LDS church's views on women, blacks and family, although just fine for themselves, are very far removed from what most Americans have come to accept over the past decades.

45 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:33:21am

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Generally christian denominations believe once you die, it's too late to save your soul. ("Anyone who rejects the Holy Spirit's convicting influence and does not repent will not be forgiven, 'neither in this world, neither in the world to come'". ) I guess the Mormon baptizing the dead rituals is sort of similar to the catholic beliefs re: purgatory, a belief which is a handy way for the church to make some money. I wonder if the Mormon church charges a fee for their after-death baptismals or if they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

46 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:35:21am

re: #45 RogueOne

I wonder if the Mormon church charges a fee for their after-death baptismals or if they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

Where would they send the bill? To Switzerland, where they are still hoarding Jewish gold?

/

47 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:37:17am

re: #44 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Oh, that is true. This also concerns attitudes to LGBT. The point is, most traditional, conservative religions are like that, just with different quirks (tho admittedly, discrimination of blacks was in addition to discrimination of women). I just don't think a Mormon merits "more" scrutiny as a Mormon than a Catholic. It still boils down to an individual. E.g. I don't care if Jon Huntsman is a Mormon - he is undoubtedly better than the rest of the current field regardless.

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:38:30am

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

And Mormon Harry Reid fought against DADT.

49 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:38:56am

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

Unless Harry Reid and Mitt Romney are going to team up and mandate "Mormon Bloomers Friday" I don't really care how they spend their sunday mornings.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:43:05am

re: #45 RogueOne

No, they don't charge anything of course, since nobody asks them to do that. Mormon eschatology is pretty good compared to traditional Christian views. E.g. only a very few people go to "outer darkness"/hell - murderers. The rest go to 3 degrees of the celestial glory - terrestrial, telestial and celestial kingdoms. Usual sinners, non-believers etc. etc. end up on the lower degree, but that is still part of a celestial kingdom, not hell. Which is kinda more humane than unbaptized infants going to hell.

Supposedly, the necro-baptism opens the door for anyone (except presumably murderers - altho Hitler was necro-baptized too) to enter the highest degrees of glory. The dead can choose, of course.

51 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:47:34am

Religion alone is not a reason to vote for or against anyone, but that is the sort of reaction that any discussion of a candidate's religion is likely to provoke.

I am not anti-religious, I am just very anti-clerical and highly suspicious of hierarchically organized religions like the Catholics and Mormons.

52 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:49:34am

And when the hierarchies and conventions start playing political influence and direct lobbying games they will and should come under greater scrutiny.

53 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 4:59:36am

Especially when, as we all know, Catholicism and Papism are inseparable in nature, as are Islam and Islamism.

/

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:00:08am

I have some uncles and aunts and cousins who are LDS. They're the least frightening folks I know. (They don't even listen to Donnie and Marie).

55 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:05:38am

Mitt is entirely un-scary. But the reason I would not vote for him has almost nothing to do with his religion.

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:06:28am

The LDS church, by proxy, is going to be demonized out of them over the next several months.

It's gonna be Romney's Jeremiah Wright.

57 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:08:52am

re: #55 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Mitt is entirely un-scary. But the reason I would not vote for him has almost nothing to do with his religion.

Unscary until his biological film covering takes sufficient damage and the T-850 Corporate Terminator underneath is revealed.
//

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:10:00am

re: #56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The LDS church, by proxy, is going to be demonized out of them over the next several months.

It's gonna be Romney's Jeremiah Wright.

It hasn't happened yet, and we're dealing with wingnutties Christianist wingnuts here, Santorum and Gingrich. Which surprises me. So I'm not completely sure it will be that big a deal in the general. But who knows.

59 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:10:16am

Morning folks! Bought some asafoetida as it was recommended by a recipe. Opened the lid and had a sniff. No way is that stuff going anywhere near my food.

60 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:11:27am

re: #59 Jimmah

Morning folks! Bought some asafoetida as it was recommended by a recipe. Opened the lid and had a sniff. No way is that stuff going anywhere near my food.

Something that has "foetid" in the name is bad? Color me surprised! ///////

61 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:12:09am

re: #59 Jimmah

Morning folks! Bought some asafoetida as it was recommended by a recipe. Opened the lid and had a sniff. No way is that stuff going anywhere near my food.

I had to look it up.

Asafoetida (Ferula assafoetida), alternative spelling asafetida,(play /æsəˈfɛtɨdə/)[1] (also known as devil's dung, stinking gum, asant, food of the gods, giant fennel, Jowani badian, hing and ting) is the dried latex (gum oleoresin) exuded from the living underground rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, which is a perennial herb.

I'll eat anything once but I think I'll pass on satan poop.

62 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:12:13am

re: #56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The LDS church, by proxy, is going to be demonized out of them over the next several months.

It's gonna be Romney's Jeremiah Wright.

It will put him in the position of having to dance around his religion and its tenets, which will further enhance his image as a man of no fixed principles.

63 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:12:17am

re: #60 Sergey Romanov

It's also known as 'devil's dung' - guess I just didn't read the signs.

64 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:13:01am

re: #59 Jimmah

Morning folks! Bought some asafoetida as it was recommended by a recipe. Opened the lid and had a sniff. No way is that stuff going anywhere near my food.

it is entirely different once it has been fried up. trust me. a key engredient in a lot of turkish/oriental dishes.

65 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:14:05am

Mmm, fried devil's dung. Just rolls off the tongue!///////

66 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:14:22am

re: #62 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

It will put him in the position of having to dance around his religion and its tenets, which will further enhance his image as a man of no fixed principles.

I don't know. It's sure to be an issue in some circles but I don't think it will be an issue for the majority of the voters....I hope.

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:15:36am

re: #62 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Just like President Obama had to do with the church he attended.

I think it's a non-issue. But it will be made into an issue.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:16:42am

Just saw a funny line on FB...

"Voting for President is exactly like choosing which STD is best for you."

69 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:17:50am

Speaking of food - we've been watching Top Chef again. Some of the challenges have been getting really silly lately - so much that I joked to ice a few weeks ago that they'll end up having a Nordic skiing event with an archery round. Last week they actually had that on the show so I suppose they're now officially beyond parody.

70 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:21:07am

re: #64 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

it is entirely different once it has been fried up. trust me. a key engredient in a lot of turkish/oriental dishes.

Ok - I'll maybe give it a try then. (It's for a curry).

71 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:23:36am

re: #66 RogueOne

I don't know. It's sure to be an issue in some circles but I don't think it will be an issue for the majority of the voters...I hope.

For a small, very vocal minority it will become an object of fixation. And this small, vocal minority is one that has a lot of influence in politics, especially in the GOP...

72 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:24:24am

re: #70 Jimmah

Ok - I'll maybe give it a try then. (It's for a curry).

Try it, really. If you don't like it, send it to me. I am fresh out and have some chickpeas that I want to curry up.

73 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:25:20am

Good morning!

This is my last day at the old job so they can make me a "farewell" party and then I am going on to bigger and better things and double the pay rate!

Job search always sucks, but this was the least sucky job search of my entire career, including Y2K.

In recovering Detroit economy, job applies for you!

74 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:25:41am

off to work. bbl

75 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:26:34am

Morning Lizardim. So, working from home yesterday was an oops, but today, it's a necessity. This is what happens when you trust the weather forecasters instead of waiting to check conditions for yourself. Oh well. Hopefully the bosses won't be too upset about it.

76 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:27:15am

re: #69 Jimmah

Speaking of food - we've been watching Top Chef again. Some of the challenges have been getting really silly lately - so much that I joked to ice a few weeks ago that they'll end up having a Nordic skiing event with an archery round. Last week they actually had that on the show so I suppose they're now officially beyond parody.

That just sounds like a lower tech version of biathlon.

Now, combine ski jumping with crossbow shooting (while in the air) and I'd be willing to watch that, if just for the laughs.

77 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:28:08am

re: #61 RogueOne

I had to look it up.

Asafoetida (Ferula assafoetida), alternative spelling asafetida,(play /æsəˈfɛtɨdə/)[1] (also known as devil's dung, [snip]

I'll eat anything once but I think I'll pass on satan poop.

But you can pass me a hit of that Devils Crabgrass!

78 compound_Idaho  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:29:06am

Utah bill requires that at least two drinkers be on the state liquor commission.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

If you think their underwear is funny, wait until you see their liquor laws.

79 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:29:18am

re: #61 RogueOne

I had to look it up.

Asafoetida (Ferula assafoetida), alternative spelling asafetida,(play /æsəˈfɛtɨdə/)[1] (also known as devil's dung, stinking gum, asant, food of the gods, giant fennel, Jowani badian, hing and ting) is the dried latex (gum oleoresin) exuded from the living underground rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, which is a perennial herb.

I'll eat anything once but I think I'll pass on satan poop.

Why would somebody eat that? To win a bet?

80 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:31:05am

re: #79 Learned Mother of Zion

Why would somebody eat that? To win a bet?

Omnivores do it for fun.

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:31:55am

re: #79 Learned Mother of Zion

Why would somebody eat that? To win a bet?

Counter-question: why would someone eat human ears? ;)

82 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:32:15am

One of the arguments that drives me nuts is...."If you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't mind willingly giving up your rights to prove it..."

CSPD SWAT Team Raids MMJ Patients' Home
No Charges Filed
[Link: www.krdo.com...]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- The Colorado Springs Police SWAT team raids the home where two medical marijuana patients live, but no arrests are made or charges filed. The raid was caught on security cameras, and the patients tell TARGET 13 they believe excessive force was used.

The video shows at least 13 SWAT officers coming to the door of the home. After the first officer reaches the door, about 15 seconds pass before another officer rams it open and a flash bang is thrown inside.
......
Ball said the raid was prompted by tips to investigators from his roommate's estranged ex who told police that there was an illegal number of medical marijuana plants in the house. Police first came to his door on Christmas night. Police agree, he and his roommate showed their medical marijuana cards, but refused to let officers in the house without a search warrant.

"If you have nothing to hide, most people would open the door and say, 'Yes, please come in and and let's dispel any information you have because it's false'," said Colorado Springs Police spokesperson Barbara Miller.

Either willingly give up your rights or a judge will allow 13 SWAT members to toss in a flash-bang grenade and swarm your house based on nothing more than the word of one informant which could be your "estranged ex".

83 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:33:24am

re: #79 Learned Mother of Zion

Why would somebody eat that? To win a bet?

Same reason people eat insects, sea creatures, brains, eyeballs, tongues, stomachs, and intestines: because they think it's delicious are fucking insane.

84 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:34:00am

re: #82 RogueOne

Lots of luck getting Colorado Springs to pay for the door replacement. Or for any other damage inflicted by the raid.

85 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:34:19am

re: #83 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

Same reason people eat insects, sea creatures, brains, eyeballs, tongues, stomachs, and intestines: because they think it's delicious are fucking insane.

Who was the first person to eat a lobster?

Who was the first person to realize that lobster is delicious when it's cooked alive?

86 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:34:57am

re: #81 Sergey Romanov

Counter-question: why would someone eat human ears? ;)

I don't know. Why do you?

87 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:35:22am

re: #79 Learned Mother of Zion

Why would somebody eat that? To win a bet?

Asafetida is used as a medicinal in Eastern Kentucky. The only people I knew put it in an "asafetidy bag" and hung it around babies' and grownups' necks as a prevention. (Not a good way to prevent infant strangulation.) No one ate it IIRC.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:35:37am

re: #86 Learned Mother of Zion

I don't know. Why do you?

I don't eat Haman's ears! ;)

89 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:35:40am

re: #85 Learned Mother of Zion

Who was the first person to eat a lobster?

Who was the first person to realize that lobster is delicious when it's cooked alive?

Right after someone's fishing boat caught on fire and burned.

90 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:38:42am

Most of the classic dishes come from when society was dirt poor. Poor, hungry people will eat anything and everything.

In a modern society there is no excuse for eating chickens feet./

91 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:41:30am

re: #88 Sergey Romanov

I don't eat Haman's ears! ;)

Those are not real ears; those are just triangular-shaped filled pastries.

Maybe in Russia they are real ears?//

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:42:07am

re: #91 Learned Mother of Zion

Those are not real ears; those are just triangular-shaped filled pastries.

Just as asafoetida is not really devil's dung. There's no devil!

93 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:42:10am

Since we're talking food discovery, is everyone familiar with Charles Lamb's "A Dissertation Upon Roast Pig"?

94 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:42:13am

re: #89 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Right after someone's fishing boat caught on fire and burned.

Why would someone fill a fishing boat with lobster, if lobster weren't known to be safe to eat?

95 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:42:31am

re: #94 Learned Mother of Zion

Why would someone fill a fishing boat with lobster, if lobster weren't known to be safe to eat?

Maybe it was the only thing biting that day.

96 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:42:38am

re: #94 Learned Mother of Zion

Why would someone fill a fishing boat with lobster, if lobster weren't known to be safe to eat?

by-catch of course.

97 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:43:25am

Anyone following the Dharun Ravi "cyberbullying" trial?

Dharun Ravi cyberbullying trial: Clementi's unnamed guest prepares to testify
[Link: blog.nj.com...]

This story out of the New Yorker is a few weeks old but it's a very good write-up:

The Story of a Suicide
Two college roommates, a webcam, and a tragedy.
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

98 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:45:22am

re: #93 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Since we're talking food discovery, is everyone familiar with Charles Lamb's "A Dissertation Upon Roast Pig"?

If that's the story of a burning barn in ancient China, and a boy who licks his burned fingers, I've been confusing him with Chesterton.

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:45:43am

re: #82 RogueOne

Guh, Colorado Springs, of course, where the apex megachurch scum make their headquarters

I'd sooner live in my car

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:46:30am

re: #98 Decatur Deb

If that's the story of a burning barn in ancient China, and a boy who licks his burned fingers, I've been confusing him with Chesterton.

Not familiar with the story. What happened next? He liked the taste and became a cannibal? /

101 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:46:41am

Lobster was once considered a "trash food" fit only for prisoners, slaves and the destitute:

Dirt-cheap because they were so copious, lobsters were routinely fed to prisoners, apprentices, slaves and children during the colonial era and beyond. In Massachusetts, some servants allegedly sought to avoid lobster-heavy diets by including stipulations in their contracts that they would only be served the shellfish twice a week.

102 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:48:02am

re: #100 Sergey Romanov

Not familiar with the story. What happened next? He liked the taste and became a cannibal? /

Nope--he just becomes the first to discover the rich, treif-y taste. (Very ancient China.)

103 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:51:40am

re: #101 Learned Mother of Zion

Lobster was once considered a "trash food" fit only for prisoners, slaves and the destitute:

And that's how they found out it was edible. "Here, slave, roast this for your dinner. Let me know if it kills you."

104 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:51:49am

This is a law I can get behind!

Fines may increase for left-lane campers on N.J. highways
[Link: www.nj.com...]

Drivers who hate it when fellow travelers clog the left lane, take heart. The New Jersey Senate Transportation Committee Monday advanced a proposal to increase fines for drivers who fail to stay right except to pass — from $50 to $200 now, to $100 to $300, with $50 to go toward signs reminding motorists entering New Jersey about the stay right law.

"Having conversations with law enforcement, they refer to this as one of the triggers for road rage," state Sen. Donald Norcross (D-Camden), the bill sponsor, said of left-lane campers.

He got to experience express lane obstructions first-hand on his way to Trenton Monday, saying, "Certainly, driving here today just reminds me why this is a good bill."

105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:53:54am

OK, I'll spoil it. But it's still worth reading.
In Ancient China...
1. Farmer's barn burns down with pig inside
2. Son accidently pokes finger into cooked/burnt pig
3. Son licks burnt fingers and discovers excellent taste
4. Repeat of #2 and #3 - done on purpose
5. Rest of family converted after some plot development
6. Family and other farmers start burning down barns with pigs inside
7. Profit!!!

106 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:55:09am

re: #105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

OK, I'll spoil it. But it's still worth reading.
In Ancient China...
1. Farmer's barn burns down with pig inside
2. Son accidently pokes finger into cooked/burnt pig
3. Son licks burnt fingers and discovers excellent taste
4. Repeat of #2 and #3 - done on purpose
5. Rest of family converted after some plot development
6. Family and other farmers start burning down barns with pigs inside
7. Profit!!!

Yes--that's the one I was mis-attributing.

107 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:55:36am

re: #104 RogueOne

This is a law I can get behind!

Fines may increase for left-lane campers on N.J. highways
[Link: www.nj.com...]

I thought the road-rage injection was gotten by default upon getting onto the NJ Turnpike or Garden State Parkway*.

* - A road very capable of living up to its literal title.

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:56:17am

re: #105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

6. Family and other farmers start burning down barns with pigs inside

That doesn't seem like something ancient Chinese would do ;)

109 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:56:42am

re: #105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

OK, I'll spoil it. But it's still worth reading.
In Ancient China...
1. Farmer's barn burns down with pig inside
2. Son accidently pokes finger into cooked/burnt pig
3. Son licks burnt fingers and discovers excellent taste
4. Repeat of #2 and #3 - done on purpose
5. Rest of family converted after some plot development
6. Family and other farmers start burning down barns with pigs inside
7. Profit!!!

Well, that begs the question: why was the farmer keeping a pig in the first place? What other use would they have for it if they didn't eat it?

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:57:08am

re: #106 Decatur Deb

Yes--that's the one I was mis-attributing.

OK, you should've mentioned that there was pig juice on the fingers ;)

111 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:57:31am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Well, that begs the question: why was the farmer keeping a pig in the first place? What other use would they have for it if they didn't eat it?

A pet.

112 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:58:01am

re: #104 RogueOne

This is a law I can get behind!

Fines may increase for left-lane campers on N.J. highways
[Link: www.nj.com...]

Part of the reason for "left-lane campers" is because the density of entrance ramps on the right-hand side is such that, for people who are going further than a couple of miles, it's easier to just sit in the left lane rather than dealing with merging traffic. This happens a lot on I-394 here in Minneapolis, which runs from downtown out to the city's western limits. There's multiple exit ramps per mile for the full 10-mile stretch, and you'll see most people just camp out in the left-hand lane until they get close enough to their exit. I can't really blame them for it.

113 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:58:19am

re: #111 Sergey Romanov

A pet.

People don't eat their pets.

114 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:58:52am

re: #113 Learned Mother of Zion

People don't eat their pets.

That's when it ceased to be one! /

115 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:59:08am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Well, that begs the question: why was the farmer keeping a pig in the first place? What other use would they have for it if they didn't eat it?

Why was there a herd of pigs in the Upper Galilee, handy to receive the demons driven out by Christ?

116 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:59:49am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

Why was there a herd of pigs in the Upper Galilee, handy to receive the demons driven out by Christ?

For some non-Jewish neighbors, presumably.

117 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 5:59:56am

re: #112 thedopefishlives

That's a lousy design. In Indy all the exits are on the right, it confuses the hell out of me when I travel to other cities that have a lot of exits on the left.

118 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:00:24am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Well, that begs the question: why was the farmer keeping a pig in the first place? What other use would they have for it if they didn't eat it?

Let's see. A pet, milk, guard, truffle finder, or simply garbage disposal could be possibilities.

It could have been a very special pig as well. But the spider did not survive to tell us.

119 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:00:47am

re: #116 Sergey Romanov

For some non-Jewish neighbors, presumably.

My Russian butcher in Netanya sold a lot of 'White Steak".

120 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:00:53am

re: #117 RogueOne

That's a lousy design. In Indy all the exits are on the right, it confuses the hell out of me when I travel to other cities that have a lot of exits on the left.

No, the exits are all on the right. People stay to the left because of all the people entering on the right, which occurs so frequently that it would be a pain to have to switch lanes every quarter mile and equally painful to merge with the streams of traffic coming down the entrance ramps.

121 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:01:26am

re: #113 Learned Mother of Zion

People don't eat their pets.

What I meant to say, would you have a pet that you can eat?

My grandkids want a pet. When my kids were growing up, they wanted pets, but I didn't want the bother of cleaningup and feeding a pet, so, we had tropical fish in a tank.

Now my daughter-in-law has this idea that you can't have an animal for a pet unless it's a kosher animal, which means dogs and cats and potbelly pigs are right out, but a "pigmy goat" would be OK. So would those goats that are always falling over.

They problem is they are still goats, and smell like goats, and the neighbors would complain.

122 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:02:05am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

Why was there a herd of pigs in the Upper Galilee, handy to receive the demons driven out by Christ?

When you aren't allowed to eat them they start to pile up. Supposedly India has almost 1/3 of the worlds cattle. I guess that's a direct contradiction of my "poor people will eat anything" meme.

123 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:02:12am

re: #119 Decatur Deb

My Russian butcher in Netanya sold a lot of 'White Steak".

Yeah, I hear many Russian Jews do not keep kosher, and of course there are lots of non-Jewish members of families. Anyway, from that font of all knowledge:

Many New Testament manuscripts refer to the "Country of the Gadarenes" or "Gerasenes" rather than the Gergesenes. Both Gerasa and Gadara were cities to the east of the Sea of Galilee. They were both Gentile cities filled with citizens who were culturally more Greek than Semitic; this would account for the pigs in the biblical account.

124 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:02:24am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

Why was there a herd of pigs in the Upper Galilee, handy to receive the demons driven out by Christ?

Jews didn't keep pigs, but Romans, Greeks and Syrians did.

125 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:03:05am

There was an old ethnographic study about "Why Are There No Old Cows in India?"

126 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:03:50am

re: #121 Learned Mother of Zion

We're joking around. I assume the burned fingers story is just a story. Of course it wasn't a pet.

127 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:04:29am

re: #122 RogueOne

When you aren't allowed to eat them they start to pile up. Supposedly India has almost 1/3 of the worlds cattle. I guess that's a direct contradiction of my "poor people will eat anything" meme.

Muslims will eat all the cows that Hindus don't eat, and Hindus will eat all the pigs that Muslims don't eat.

Win-win.

128 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:05:18am

re: #127 Learned Mother of Zion

Muslims will eat all the cows that Hindus don't eat, and Hindus will eat all the pigs that Muslims don't eat.

Win-win.

Yup. That was the finding.

129 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:07:15am

As long as we are on the topic of Pigs in Palestine:

130 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:08:07am

re: #122 RogueOne

When you aren't allowed to eat them they start to pile up. Supposedly India has almost 1/3 of the worlds cattle. I guess that's a direct contradiction of my "poor people will eat anything" meme.

The classical anthro answer to the 'cow taboo' is that a cow produces far more calories as an agricultural tractor and transport than it is worth as an entree.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:09:43am

re: #129 Learned Mother of Zion

Heh, that's sweet.

132 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:10:38am

Talking of pets--dog time--BBL

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:11:27am

re: #132 Decatur Deb

Talking of pets--dog time--BBL

I count on all pets returning from the walk no matter how hungry you may be! /

134 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:12:28am

Iran’s underground nuclear sites not immune to U.S. bunker-busters, experts say
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Western spy agencies for years have kept watch on a craggy peak in northwest Iran that houses of one the world’s most unusual nuclear sites. Known as Fordow, the facility is built into mountain bunkers designed to withstand aerial attack. Iran’s civil-defense chief has declared the site “impregnable.”

But impregnable it is not, say U.S. military planners who are increasingly confident of their ability to deliver a serious blow against Fordow, should the president ever order an attack.
....
Yet as a matter of physics, Fordow remains far more vulnerable than generally portrayed, said current and former military and intelligence analysts. Massive new “bunker buster” munitions recently added to the U.S. arsenal would not necessarily have to penetrate the deepest bunkers to cause irreparable damage to infrastructure as well as highly sensitive nuclear equipment, likely setting back Iran’s program by years, officials said.

I wonder how many of those bombs we've already delivered to Israel.

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:14:00am

re: #134 RogueOne

That could give a false hope, though. Who knows how distributed the program is?

136 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:15:23am

re: #134 RogueOne

Iran’s underground nuclear sites not immune to U.S. bunker-busters, experts say
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I wonder how many of those bombs we've already delivered to Israel.

If they're that brand new, they may not have any yet. The US is a little bit shy about handing out brand-new military tech, even to our closest allies.

137 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:15:36am
138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:16:17am

re: #137 Gus

Well, it's a good start.

139 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:17:02am

re: #137 Gus

With or without cuffs?

140 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:17:19am

re: #138 Sergey Romanov

Well, it's a good start.

Only the first step in the eventual destruction of News Corp! Bwahahaha! My plan is coming together nicely! Now where's my Naproxin Sodium?

141 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:18:27am

re: #139 Targetpractice

With or without cuffs?

With cuffs no doubt. Gold plated retirement cuff links.

142 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:19:25am

In other morning news!

Ron Paul: 'We're very pleased with our strategy'

Yep. Whatever you say Ron. It's coming together nicely.

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:20:53am

re: #142 Gus

And why not? What he does is a political equivalent of masturbation. ;)

144 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:21:35am

re: #143 Sergey Romanov

And why not? What he does is a political equivalent of masturbation. ;)

Spreading the "Gospel of Ron Paul!"

Derp.

145 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:21:45am

House votes to overturn Supreme Court decision on eminent domain
[Link: thehill.com...]

The House on Tuesday afternoon approved legislation that overturns a 2005 Supreme Court decision that affirmed the ability of states to take control of private property under the doctrine of eminent domain and hand it to another private developer.

That decision, Kelo v. City of New London, led to sharp complaints in particular from Republicans, who argued that the Court ignored the normal "public use" standard. Under that standard, eminent domain was seen as permissible only when the land or property taken would be retooled for public use.
....
House Republicans brought up the bill under a suspension of House rules, and after a brief debate, members passed it by voice vote. In addition to chief sponsor Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) spoke in favor of the bill, as did two Democrats, Reps. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) and Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas).

Waters co-sponsored the bill with Sensenbrenner, and both members noted that this rare alliance alone should prompt members to support the bill.

"This is a Sensenbrenner-Waters bill," Sensenbrenner said. "You will never see another Sensenbrenner-Waters bill, and that is probably one of the best reasons to vote in favor of it."

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:23:40am

re: #145 RogueOne

Wait, they can't do that. So I assume it's some sort of a loophole?

147 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:23:44am

re: #137 Gus

Deploying the golden parachute a little earlier than planned, I see.

148 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:23:44am

America: musical saw, washboard and the one string bass.

[Dobro slide]

Burp. More coffee!

149 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:27:14am

re: #147 thedopefishlives

Deploying the golden parachute a little earlier than planned, I see.

He quite the fossil. Won't mean much in the long run. Fox News will continue to be the trashy "Entertainment Tonight" of the genre for a long time to come.

150 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:27:33am

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

Wait, they can't do that. So I assume it's some sort of a loophole?

I'm not sure. Usually when both parties say "Hey, we have a great idea!" I get nervous.// I'm not sure why they think the federal govt has the authority to decide the issue for the states. Weirdly I think I'm in agreement with John Conyers:

Judiciary Committee Ranking Member John Conyers (D-Mich.) was the only member to speak against the bill. He argued that it has been seven years since the Kelo decision, and that many states have adjusted their own eminent domain laws in reaction.

"Congress should not now come charging in after seven years of work and presume to sit as a national zoning board, advocating to our national government the right to decide which states have gotten the balance right, and deciding which project are or are not appropriate," he said.

151 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:29:38am

re: #149 Gus

He quite the fossil. Won't mean much in the long run. Fox News will continue to be the trashy "Entertainment Tonight" of the genre for a long time to come.

Yeah. It's basically a feel-good measure to try and swing public opinion back the other way. Will it work? Maybe. But either way, Murdoch gets his millions and is set for life. This, by the way, is why I despise the whole concept of the golden parachute; but managers (especially sleazy ones) have been trained to require them in their contracts.

152 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:29:53am

Mmmmm. The Trentonian...

Image: doc4f4d09577347f169233888.jpg

Derp.

153 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:30:39am

re: #145 RogueOne

House votes to overturn Supreme Court decision on eminent domain
[Link: thehill.com...]

On that note:

Keystone XL Pipeline Relies on Eminent Domain for Success

Take for instance, Randy Thompson, a Nebraska landowner featured in The New York Times. NYT reports that if Thompson did not sell his land, Keystone would use the force of eminent domain to secure an easement to his land. How can a company, not even based in the United States, use the U.S. Federal Government to seize land? He is only one of many individuals fighting the fight against eminent domain.

You said yesterday you think you'll benefit from Keystone. But what of all the landowners in various states being bullied by a foreign corporation into giving up their land for said pipeline?

154 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:32:31am

re: #145 RogueOne

House votes to overturn Supreme Court decision on eminent domain
[Link: thehill.com...]

Is that like a 1,000-year piece of legislation?

//

155 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:32:42am

Happy Leap Day everybody.
Any conclusions at hand to leap to?

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:33:50am

re: #150 RogueOne

I'm just saying that the way it is framed is wrong, the House can't override the Supreme Court, unless there are some ways to do that embedded in the decision itself (i.e. it is dependent on existence of some laws).

157 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:35:36am

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

I'm just saying that the way it is framed it's wrong the House can't override the Supreme Court, unless there are some ways to do that embedded in the decision itself (i.e. it is dependent on existence of some laws existing).

Well, technically, they can. Congress can pass a law that goes against established judicial precedent, if they like. The Supreme Court can turn right around and smack it down, if they so choose. They sort of counterbalance each other that way. Actually, this is one of the things that's commonly brought up in bad court decisions; "If you don't like it, call your Congresscritter and get him to make a law that changes things."

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:37:24am

re: #157 thedopefishlives

Yeah, they can pass unconstitutional laws which will then be smacked down, but they can't explicitly "vote to overturn the Supreme Court". But I get what you're saying.

159 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:39:24am

re: #158 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, they can pass unconstitutional laws which will then be smacked down, but they can't explicitly "vote to overturn the Supreme Court". But I get what you're saying.

But a law is generally constitutional until deemed unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. It could go in either direction from here.

160 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:40:05am

re: #158 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, they can pass unconstitutional laws which will then be smacked down, but they can't explicitly "vote to overturn the Supreme Court". But I get what you're saying.

Not without the thankfully cumbersome constitutional amendment route.

161 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:40:35am

Maybe this is old news but I'm happy about it.
25 Anon members arrested.

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:40:36am

re: #159 Gus

But a law is generally constitutional until deemed unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. It could go in either direction from here.

So a law barring blacks from voting would be constitutional until the SCOTUS said so?

163 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:40:44am

In any event. The archaic system we have will take care of things. Eventually.

164 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:40:52am

re: #153 Interesting Times

I go back and forth on the eminent domain issue, there's a lot of gray area in it for me. That's partly why I agree with Conyers on the bill I mentioned above. I think Kelo was a horrible decision based on the particulars but there are times when the govt has an actual need and a right to take property. I'd prefer the locals determine when those times are and not a federal law making the decision for everyone.

In the case of the pipeline I don't know enough to decide how I feel just yet. On one hand they just want access for an easement, the property owner isn't really losing much. OTOH, it is their property and they should be allowed to decide if they want to take the money or not. It sort of reminds me of the fight during the building of the Appalachian trail in the 90's.

165 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:41:08am

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

So a law barring blacks from voting would be constitutional until the SCOTUS said so?

Or a lower court, lets not forget.

166 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:41:13am

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

So a law barring blacks from voting would be constitutional until the SCOTUS said so?

Seems to be the case. Look at DOMA.

167 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42:09am

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

So a law barring blacks from voting would be constitutional until the SCOTUS said so?

Essentially, yes. If Congress passes it (presumably by overriding the Presidential veto), it would have to be challenged in court and overturned.

168 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:43:00am

re: #155 Daniel Ballard

Happy Leap Day everybody.
Any conclusions at hand to leap to?

Gonna Leap on a chance to pick up a cheap Ishapore 2A1 7.62x51 bolt action rifle. Should be a fun old milsurp.

170 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:44:34am

re: #167 thedopefishlives

The other alternative is that the executive branch could refuse to enforce it. Because enforcement powers do not belong to Congress, but to the President and the governors of the individual states, they could just absolutely refuse to do anything to enforce the enacted legislature, stalling the measure until it is repealed or overturned in court.

171 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:46:11am

re: #168 William Barnett-Lewis

Nice relic gun. Probably shoots pretty straight. Old school ways. Iron sight.

172 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:46:16am

What about a law (let's call it L) prohibiting the SCOTUS from revising both a certain law previously passed and the law L? If it's constitutional until the SCOTUS decides, the SCOTUS cannot even begin to decide on that case, can it? (Yes, I'm asking just for lulz.)

173 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:46:38am

re: #169 Gus

The Daily Show's Samantha Bee Demolishes Grover Norquist

Yes, the entire federal government is paralyzed because of a document, written by a twelve year old, in 1968. -- Samantha Bee

174 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:49:41am

re: #172 Sergey Romanov

What about a law (let's call it L) prohibiting the SCOTUS from revising both a certain law previously passed and the law L? If it's constitutional until the SCOTUS decides, the SCOTUS cannot even begin to decide on that case, can it? (Yes, I'm asking just for lulz.)

Then the "Tree of Liberty" would have to be watere...

//

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:50:17am

re: #174 Gus

Then the "Tree of Liberty" would have to be watere...

//

Decatur Deb's dogs to the rescue!

176 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:50:25am

Carla has a fan! Woot!

177 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:50:29am

re: #172 Sergey Romanov

What about a law (let's call it L) prohibiting the SCOTUS from revising both a certain law previously passed and the law L? If it's constitutional until the SCOTUS decides, the SCOTUS cannot even begin to decide on that case, can it? (Yes, I'm asking just for lulz.)

It'd be up to the designated enforcement entity to actually prevent the Supremes from reviewing it, which is not likely to happen. Congress can't actually tell the SCOTUS to do anything.

178 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:50:49am

Hey all!

I have no illusions. I am exhausted. Curs-ed Virus!

Cuteness helps tho!

How is everyone this am?

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:51:51am

re: #177 thedopefishlives

It'd be up to the designated enforcement entity to actually prevent the Supremes from reviewing it, which is not likely to happen. Congress can't actually tell the SCOTUS to do anything.

Yes, by the Constitution. But we're under assumption it is being deliberately ignored while under the air of constitutionality ;) I just like these hypotheticals, I know it won't happen.

180 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:52:24am
181 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:53:07am

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

So a law barring blacks from voting would be constitutional until the SCOTUS said so?

Congress has no enforcement role. If a compliant Executive tried to enforce Law L, it would effectively be a coup. (Andrew Jackson danced with that in the mid-1800s.) I'm sure there are a hundred subtleties I don't know about this hypothetical.

182 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:53:10am

Although now that I think of it, there's that whole issue of the alleged Taney arrest warrant...

183 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:53:13am
184 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:53:50am

re: #171 Daniel Ballard

Nice relic gun. Probably shoots pretty straight. Old school ways. Iron sight.

Yep. I prefer my Mausers to SMLEs, but this way I can have a good representative of the type while being able to afford to shoot it.

185 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:54:30am

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

Yes, by the Constitution. But we're under assumption it is being deliberately ignored while under the air of constitutionality ;) I just like these hypotheticals, I know it won't happen.

It is an interesting case study, and in actual point of fact, this is how the power of judicial review came into effect in the United States to begin with. See, for example, Marbury v. Madison.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:54:58am

re: #185 thedopefishlives

Thanks!

187 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:55:42am

Time for me to hit the road. Enjoy your day people!

188 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:56:48am

re: #187 RogueOne

Time for me to hit the road. Enjoy your day people!

Hit the road, Rogue, but you'll be coming back for more, for more, for more and more! /

189 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:56:59am

re: #180 Gus

45% - Americans, Western Europeans Differ Sharply on Conditions for Using Military Force

America! Fuck ya! Rambo and Freedom Fries!

Strange poll --no?

If one's country is directly attacked and in imminent danger of being attacked again, one has to ask permission of the UN to defend it?

190 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:57:23am

Yo Rick! Here, read this.

94% - Most Parents Expect Their Children to Attend College

College remains a near universal aspiration in this country, even in the face of steeply rising costs. Among parents of a child ages 17 or younger, 94% say they expect their child (or children) to attend college, according to a survey conducted March 15-29, 2011.

191 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:59:06am

re: #14 windupbird is in the gravity well

very very few of these songs speak to me at all: [Link: www.musicoutfitters.com...]

Social Distortion

I was fortunate enough to see Springsteen live in D.C. in 2003 the week after Johnny Cash died and he opened with "I Walk The Line."

It was probably one of my top-three concert moments in 40 years of going to concerts, and I think I still like Social Distortion's version of "Ring of Fire" more than that.

192 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:59:23am

re: #189 ggt

Strange poll --no?

If one's country is directly attacked and in imminent danger of being attacked again, one has to ask permission of the UN to defend it?

Not strange. Half of America thinks we can be the world honey badger. IOW, we'd still likely invade Iraq all over again. ;) 50/50 so it's not really a complete majority. Sure, people can question the UN. But there's a great deal of that good old fashioned American arrogance or hubris at play here. Call it a Palinist view of the world if you will. More like the Bush-doctrine. Would it make sense sometimes? Sure it would.

193 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:01:12am

re: #192 Gus

Not strange. Half of America thinks we can be the world honey badger. IOW, we'd still likely invade Iraq all over again. ;) 50/50 so it's not really a complete majority. Sure, people can question the UN. But there's a great deal of that good old fashioned American arrogance or hubris at play here. Call it a Palinist view of the world if you will. More like the Bush-doctrine. Would it make sense sometimes? Sure it would.

I don't know. I think there are situations in which we should ask permission --when we are not acting in our direct defense. I don't think anyone needs permission for self-defense.

195 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:02:16am

re: #193 ggt

I don't know. I think there are situations in which we should ask permission --when we are not acting in our direct defense. I don't think anyone needs permission for self-defense.

We had no trouble going bi-partisan apeshit after 9/11.

196 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:02:20am

re: #193 ggt

I don't know. I think there are situations in which we should ask permission --when we are not acting in our direct defense. I don't think anyone needs permission for self-defense.

See what I typed out which includes:

Would it make sense sometimes? Sure it would.

197 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:03:59am

re: #195 Decatur Deb

We had no trouble going bi-partisan apeshit after 9/11.

It's pretty easy to "make up" threats in this society. I think anyone that's at least watched many a Frontline program can see that.

198 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:09:13am

You can't milk pigs.

199 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:09:52am

re: #195 Decatur Deb

We had no trouble going bi-partisan apeshit after 9/11.

I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh: the blood of the slain and the captives, the heads of the enemy leaders.

200 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:09:54am

re: #198 Obdicut

You can't milk pigs.

Suddenly.

201 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:12:06am

re: #198 Obdicut

You can't milk pigs.

You can lead a horse to water...

202 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:14:37am

re: #198 Obdicut

You can't milk pigs.

You can't milk cats.

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:15:10am

re: #202 Learned Mother of Zion

You can't milk cats.

You can't milk male goats. They still like it though. /

204 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:16:56am
205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:17:48am

OMG, I have PILES of paperwork to do and I don't wanna.

Weren't computers supposed to eliminate paperwork?

206 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:17:52am

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

You can't milk male goats. They still like it though. /

Cats like to milk blankets, pillow and sleeping bags.

Do blankets produce milk?

//

207 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:18:01am

re: #202 Learned Mother of Zion

You can't milk cats.

You can't milk duds.

Sorry, I got nothing.

208 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:18:16am

re: #189 ggt

Strange poll --no?

If one's country is directly attacked and in imminent danger of being attacked again, one has to ask permission of the UN to defend it?

Maybe the Syrians, Libyans. Egyptians, and Iranians should ask permission before they rise up and take their countries back from the dictators. With Russia and China with permanent veto power on the Security council there's no chance they'd be granted permission. The UN Human Rights Council is loaded with the worst abusers from Saudi Arabia, MAuritania, and Q'Daffy's Lybia.
What a perverse concept to have a body where dictators are allowed to vote on world affairs while oppressing their own populations at home. The UN is a joke.

209 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:18:42am

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Maybe the Syrians, Libyans. Egyptians, and Iranians should ask permission before they rise up and take their countries back from the dictators. With Russia and China with permanent veto power on the Security council there's no chance they'd be granted permission. The UN Human Rights Council is loaded with the worst abusers from Saudi Arabia, MAuritania, and Q'Daffy's Lybia.
What a perverse concept to have a body where dictators are allowed to vote on world affairs while oppressing their own populations at home. The UN is a joke.

[Dobro slide]

210 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:19:04am

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Maybe the Syrians, Libyans. Egyptians, and Iranians should ask permission before they rise up and take their countries back from the dictators. With Russia and China with permanent veto power on the Security council there's no chance they'd be granted permission. The UN Human Rights Council is loaded with the worst abusers from Saudi Arabia, MAuritania, and Q'Daffy's Lybia.
What a perverse concept to have a body where dictators are allowed to vote on world affairs while oppressing their own populations at home. The UN is a joke.

I'd like to think the UN does some good. I understand there is a purpose for diplomats --haven't quite figured out what it is tho.

:0

211 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:19:40am

re: #198 Obdicut

You can't milk pigs.

I won't treat it as authoriative but it's done in a Prattchett novel. (Nation)

212 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:19:52am

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Maybe the Syrians, Libyans. Egyptians, and Iranians should ask permission before they rise up and take their countries back from the dictators. With Russia and China with permanent veto power on the Security council there's no chance they'd be granted permission. The UN Human Rights Council is loaded with the worst abusers from Saudi Arabia, MAuritania, and Q'Daffy's Lybia.
What a perverse concept to have a body where dictators are allowed to vote on world affairs while oppressing their own populations at home. The UN is a joke.

Actually. You might want to read up on the UN involvement with taking down "Q'Daffy's Lybia." You know. Like the facts.

213 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:19:55am

re: #210 ggt

I'd like to think the UN does some good. I understand there is a purpose for diplomats --haven't quite figured out what it is tho.

:0

They give you time to spin the fuzes into the ordnance.

214 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:21:13am

re: #206 Gus

Cats like to milk blankets, pillow and sleeping bags.

Do blankets produce milk?

//

Is that milking, or kneading?

(Makes one wonder if a cat can be given sufficient incentive to do a good bread dough. Or lacking that, maybe walking and kneading sore backs.)
;)

215 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:22:07am

re: #214 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Is that milking, or kneading?

(Makes one wonder if a cat can be given sufficient incentive to do a good bread dough. Or lacking that, maybe walking and kneading sore backs.)
;)

Mankind's never-ending quest to find a use for cats.

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:22:16am

re: #213 Decatur Deb

They give you time to spin the fuzes into the ordnance.

Medical care? Vaccinations for children?

I think it is difficult for those in the US to understand how much the UN does for the small countries around the world. These countries just don't have the resources to the things we have our government do for us.

I know I am speaking (writing) in generalities, but it is still morning and I am on my first cuppa.

217 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:22:42am

re: #210 ggt

I'd like to think the UN does some good. I understand there is a purpose for diplomats --haven't quite figured out what it is tho.

:0

Go spend a pile of money and bribe an enemy city (and garrison) away from an opposing civilization.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:22:58am

re: #215 Decatur Deb

Mankind's never-ending quest to find a use for cats.

Which would be the the problem.

WE are here to serve THEM. We can only hope they find a use for us if we want to survive.

:0

219 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:23:20am

Just to follow up on Congress trying to undo the results of Kelo, even though people have moved on.

In this case, it's not really that they're making a law to "overrule" the Supreme Court. What was ruled in Kelo was that the seizure by eminent domain was allowed by the Constitution. That is, the power of the government extends that far. The government can still say "Well, we won't use that power.", which is what the federal government is basically considering here.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:23:34am

Because the world worked so fine before the UN.

[dobro slide]

221 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:24:02am

re: #216 ggt

Medical care? Vaccinations for children?

I think it is difficult for those in the US to understand how much the UN does for the small countries around the world. These countries just don't have the resources to the things we have our government do for us.

I know I am speaking (writing) in generalities, but it is still morning and I am on my first cuppa.

All true--I'm more fer the UN than agin' it. My old Army boss now works for the UN, on the chemical weapons elimination side.

222 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:24:12am

United Nations Authorizes Military Action Against Libya

Late today, the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution authorizing military action in support of the Libyan rebellion...

[Convulsions]

223 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:27:12am

re: #219 Simply Sarah

Just to follow up on Congress trying to undo the results of Kelo, even though people have moved on.

In this case, it's not really that they're making a law to "overrule" the Supreme Court. What was ruled in Kelo was that the seizure by eminent domain was allowed by the Constitution. That is, the power of the government extends that far. The government can still say "Well, we won't use that power.", which is what the federal government is basically considering here.

I thought the thing about the Kelo Decision was less about the power of eminent domain than a locality using it to transfer property from one set of private hands to another set of private hands simply under the basis that the latter party would carry out development that would benefit the community. Which stretched the normal use of eminent domain where the conversion is generally into public use. (And I'm sure I'm generalizing here a bit.)

224 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:28:32am

re: #218 ggt

Which would be the the problem.

WE are here to serve THEM. We can only hope they find a use for us if we want to survive.

:0

It's part of the subtle control system they have in place. Implied that we're in charge, therefore no thoughts that it is actually slavery to potentially be rebelled against.

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:28:34am

re: #223 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Yep. And it seems like a mighty stinky decision too.

226 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:29:17am

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

Because the world worked so fine before the UN.

[dobro slide]

Get off my lawn!

//

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:29:52am

re: #226 Gus

Get off my lawn!

//

*throws dobro at Gus*
*runs away*

228 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:30:52am

re: #226 Gus

Get off my lawn!

//

Is that what they used to call Poland?
;)

229 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:31:20am

re: #223 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I thought the thing about the Kelo Decision was less about the power of eminent domain than a locality using it to transfer property from one set of private hands to another set of private hands simply under the basis that the latter party would carry out development that would benefit the community. Which stretched the normal use of eminent domain where the conversion is generally into public use. (And I'm sure I'm generalizing here a bit.)

Well, yes. It basically said it was a valid use of eminent domain to take the property for transfer to private developers. The reaction of the vast majority of states to this was to pass laws which ban the taking of property by eminent domain for transfer to private developers. I assume the federal law in question here basically does the same thing. The only potential constitutional question here would be "Is Congress overreaching if the bill applies to entities other than the federal government?"

230 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:31:45am

re: #228 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Is that what they used to call Poland?
;)

Yep. "We had to invade Poland because they posed a threat to our national security."

//I was just following orders.

//

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:31:57am

Was that a godwin right there?/

232 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:33:32am

re: #231 Sergey Romanov

Was that a godwin right there?/

I would say not since Russia and other European powers chopping up or establishing Poland as a buffer state goes back to well before the 20th century.

233 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:33:44am

re: #231 Sergey Romanov

Was that a godwin right there?/

Damn you!

//

234 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:34:12am

Saved by the Visigoths.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:34:24am

re: #232 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I would say not since Russia and other European powers chopping up or establishing Poland as a buffer state goes back to well before the 20th century.

Hey. Eminent domain! /

236 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:35:36am

I sense a wingnut disturbance in the Force./

237 kirkspencer  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:35:51am

re: #229 Simply Sarah

Well, yes. It basically said it was a valid use of eminent domain to take the property for transfer to private developers. The reaction of the vast majority of states to this was to pass laws which ban the taking of property by eminent domain for transfer to private developers. I assume the federal law in question here basically does the same thing. The only potential constitutional question here would be "Is Congress overreaching if the bill applies to entities other than the federal government?"

Except...

When railroads and interstates were built, that's exactly how eminent domain worked. It's how they were intended.

My impression of the Kelo decision was more nuanced. Not that government took private property and gave it to other private developers, but rather that the recipients had to be using it for a result that was predominately if not solely to the common good. NOT to build a supermall or a stadium or such.

238 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:36:02am

re: #229 Simply Sarah

Well, yes. It basically said it was a valid use of eminent domain to take the property for transfer to private developers. The reaction of the vast majority of states to this was to pass laws which ban the taking of property by eminent domain for transfer to private developers. I assume the federal law in question here basically does the same thing. The only potential constitutional question here would be "Is Congress overreaching if the bill applies to entities other than the federal government?"

Well, could the state laws be considered an overreach as well applying the same reasoning?

IIRC, zoning and property use control is usually a county or township level issue. But personally I'd want eminent domain controls defined at a higher level than that because I can easily visualize a wealthy developer buying sufficient control of a local zoning board in order to get them to carry out manipulations at his beck and call.

239 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:36:10am

re: #236 Sergey Romanov

I sense a wingnut disturbance in the Force./

My ears are ringing. //

240 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:37:13am

re: #239 Gus

My ears are ringing. //

Venezuelans attack!/

241 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:37:56am

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

Venezuelans attack!/

Using Vuvuzelas!

242 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:38:14am

re: #229 Simply Sarah

Well, yes. It basically said it was a valid use of eminent domain to take the property for transfer to private developers. The reaction of the vast majority of states to this was to pass laws which ban the taking of property by eminent domain for transfer to private developers. I assume the federal law in question here basically does the same thing. The only potential constitutional question here would be "Is Congress overreaching if the bill applies to entities other than the federal government?"

I think that in these cases it is important to remember that the government isn't "taking". The individuals get paid for their land. It's more like a "forced sale."

243 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:38:24am

My goal in life was to make a decent living and live happily ever after. Not to be some part of the great global protectorate. I miss the Clinton years. Before the walls fell on 9/11.

Fire up the gunboats!

244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:39:00am

There's a headline.
"Venezuelan Vuvuzelers attack Venetia!"
Would be some sort of soccer riot story obviously.

245 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:39:03am

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

Venezuelans attack!/

The Brazilians are coming the Brazilians are coming!

//

246 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:39:28am

re: #237 kirkspencer

Except...

When railroads and interstates were built, that's exactly how eminent domain worked. It's how they were intended.

My impression of the Kelo decision was more nuanced. Not that government took private property and gave it to other private developers, but rather that the recipients had to be using it for a result that was predominately if not solely to the common good. NOT to build a supermall or a stadium or such.

Well, yes, it's certainly more nuanced. It's about the private use of the property for private good. I was trying to be less focused on the specifics of what the ruling did and more on the fact that it was a ruling that laws, constitutionally, can be changed to effectively nullify.

247 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:39:52am

re: #243 Gus

My goal in life was to make a decent living and live happily ever after. Not to be some part of the great global protectorate. I miss the Clinton years. Before the walls fell on 9/11.

Fire up the gunboats!

Life is much easier when you have a well-defined enemy.

Batman and the Joker
Superman and ??
US and Russia.
US and the GOP.

248 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:40:18am

We must bomb Buenos Aires before the Argies invade the Falklands!

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:41:08am

re: #248 Gus

Get off that hill./

250 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:41:34am

re: #238 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Well, could the state laws be considered an overreach as well applying the same reasoning?

IIRC, zoning and property use control is usually a county or township level issue. But personally I'd want eminent domain controls defined at a higher level than that because I can easily visualize a wealthy developer buying sufficient control of a local zoning board in order to get them to carry out manipulations at his beck and call.

No. States are the sovereign power and are generally considered to have total (Or near total) control over laws inside the state, including overruling any local ordinances or laws or decisions.

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:41:36am

re: #249 Sergey Romanov

Get off that hill./

Ants live in it!

252 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:42:06am

re: #247 ggt

Life is much easier when you have a well-defined enemy.

Batman and the Joker
Superman and ??
US and Russia.
US and the GOP.

Superman and Lex Luthor, now go tear up your geek card.

253 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:42:32am

re: #252 jamesfirecat

Superman and Lex Luthor, now go tear up your geek card.

Superman and the KKK.

254 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:42:36am

re: #252 jamesfirecat

Superman and Lex Luthor, now go tear up your geek card.

Superman didn't have a TV that aired afterschool when I was young.

255 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:42:39am

re: #244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

There's a headline.
"Venezuelans Vuvuzelers attack Venetia!"
Would be some sort of soccer riot story obviously.

Vicenza will come to the aid Serene Venezia. Dust off zombie Baggio!

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:43:02am

re: #255 Decatur Deb

Vicenza will come to the aid Serene Venezia. Dust off zombie Baggio!

What about the Vizlas?

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:43:30am

re: #253 Gus

Superman and the KKK.

Superman and the Ja... panese.

258 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:43:32am

re: #242 ggt

I think that in these cases it is important to remember that the government isn't "taking". The individuals get paid for their land. It's more like a "forced sale."

Sort of. The Fifth Amendment does specifically say "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation", so "taken" is actually the proper term.

259 darthstar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:43:35am
260 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:43:38am

I approve a preemptive strike to prevent the blowing of vuvuzelas!

//

261 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:44:36am

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

Superman and the Ja... panese.

Eeek! Whew. You know. That just gave me a flashback. We had a few old Lizards that used to use the 4 letter form of Japanese.

262 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:44:40am

re: #260 Gus

I approve a preemptive strike to prevent the blowing of vuvuzelas!

//

Can you play that word in scrabble. I'm horrible with "v's"

263 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:45:01am

re: #242 ggt

I think that in these cases it is important to remember that the government isn't "taking". The individuals get paid for their land. It's more like a "forced sale."

True. But generally held as being undervalued when paid off.

And this is a major reason you won't see high-speed rail in the Northeast Corridor. Getting the right-of-way while keeping the current rails operational would involve eminent domain seizures of what is considered very valuable property locations. The fighting of which in court would keep any such system being started tied up for years.

264 BongCrodny  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:45:03am

re: #259 darthstar

Fuckin' awesome pic of the President...he must be listening to Boehner.
Good morning, everyone.

"You don't like that, pal? I got another one for ya right here on the other hand."

265 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:45:59am

re: #261 Gus

Eeek! Whew. You know. That just gave me a flashback. We had a few old Lizards that used to use the 4 letter form of Japanese.

Who, if not a secret?

266 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:46:05am

re: #256 ggt

What about the Vizlas?

(Had to look it up.) Venice is very much a cat town--few dogs.
Vicenzans, however are called "magnagatti", The Cat Eaters, because of a misunderstanding.

267 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:46:13am

re: #263 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

True. But generally held as being undervalued when paid off.

And this is a major reason you won't see high-speed rail in the Northeast Corridor. Getting the right-of-way while keeping the current rails operational would involve eminent domain seizures of what is considered very valuable property locations. The fighting of which in court would keep any such system being started tied up for years.

And it would be very expensive even ignoring any legal issues.

268 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:46:54am

re: #263 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

True. But generally held as being undervalued when paid off.

And this is a major reason you won't see high-speed rail in the Northeast Corridor. Getting the right-of-way while keeping the current rails operational would involve eminent domain seizures of what is considered very valuable property locations. The fighting of which in court would keep any such system being started tied up for years.

As Simply Sarah stated, "taken" is the word used in the Constitution. Yet, the way the media is today, I think "taken" produces more hysteria than is necessary. You aren't thrown out on the street with your stuff.

269 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:47:32am

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

Who, if not a secret?

I don't remember now. Wasn't many. Sure was strange. The excuse they used was some lame wingnut context. "My dad used to call them that." Same few that used to compare the National Council of La Raza to the KKK. Malkinites.

270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:48:16am

re: #267 Simply Sarah

And it would be very expensive even ignoring any legal issues.

Yep. But the NE Corridor is also the zone that would be the most economically profitable if you ever got it going. High number of potential passengers over the shortest distances.

271 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:48:19am

re: #266 Decatur Deb

(Had to look it up.) Venice is very much a cat town--few dogs.
Vicenzans, however are called "magnagatti", The Cat Eaters, because of a misunderstanding.

I've never understood the thing with cats and boats. Cat's hate water, so why are there so many when there are ships and boats around. I know they eat the varments that are the bane of ships, but it seems awful nice that they'd (the cats) would hang around the water at all.

272 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:48:44am

re: #268 ggt

As Simply Sarah stated, "taken" is the word used in the Constitution. Yet, the way the media is today, I think "taken" produces more hysteria than is necessary. You aren't thrown out on the street with your stuff.

Well, if you can't find another place to stay, you kinda are.

273 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:49:30am

re: #271 ggt

I've never understood the thing with cats and boats. Cat's hate water, so why are there so many when there are ships and boats around. I know they eat the varments that are the bane of ships, but it seems awful nice that they'd (the cats) would hang around the water at all.

Fishermen--fishguts--cats.

274 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:49:54am

re: #270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Yep. But the NE Corridor is also the zone that would be the most economically profitable if you ever got it going. High number of potential passengers over the shortest distances.

Oh, it by far makes the most sense for that kind of service. It's just also an area where putting it in place would be extra complicated.

275 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:50:12am

re: #271 ggt

I've never understood the thing with cats and boats. Cat's hate water, so why are there so many when there are ships and boats around. I know they eat the varments that are the bane of ships, but it seems awful nice that they'd (the cats) would hang around the water at all.

Once you get the cat on the boat and get out to sea, the cat doesn't have much choice but to stay on the boat does it?

276 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:50:12am

re: #272 Simply Sarah

Well, if you can't find another place to stay, you kinda are.

That would be the main issue --people who have paid-off their home after 30+ years and can't afford to move because of housing prices.

Which isn't as much of an issue these days . . . .

277 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:51:08am

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

Who, if not a secret?

Bzzt.

278 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:51:21am

re: #275 jamesfirecat

Once you get the cat on the boat and get out to see, the cat doesn't have much choice but to stay on the boat does it?

Yeah, but that wouldn't last long if the cat isn't cooperative. It has gone on for centuries and centuries.

I think the Cat Overlord is a benelvolent creature in this regard anyway.

279 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:51:51am

re: #271 ggt

I've never understood the thing with cats and boats. Cat's hate water, so why are there so many when there are ships and boats around. I know they eat the varments that are the bane of ships, but it seems awful nice that they'd (the cats) would hang around the water at all.

For supervisory purposes obviously.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

280 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:52:06am

re: #275 jamesfirecat

Once you get the cat on the boat and get out to see, the cat doesn't have much choice but to stay on the boat does it?

It could use its demonic basement-cat powers to sink the foolish ship that took it aboard.

281 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:54:25am

re: #280 erik_t

It could use its demonic basement-cat powers to sink the foolish ship that took it aboard.

Given his record you'd half-expect the UK to have capsized by 1950.
;)

282 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:54:27am

re: #215 Decatur Deb

Mankind's never-ending quest to find a use for cats.

Not totally sure. They aren't very tasty, and are usually a bit small to make a decent rug.

283 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:55:22am

re: #259 darthstar

Fuckin' awesome pic of the President...he must be listening to Boehner.
Good morning, everyone.

Favorited. My wife laughed when she saw it, was like, "Oh, man, that's not Photoshopped, is it."

284 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:56:18am
285 jamesfirecat  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 7:57:16am

re: #280 erik_t

It could use its demonic basement-cat powers to sink the foolish ship that took it aboard.

Here's the Cracked piece about him and a few other famous cats...

286 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:00:33am

re: #285 jamesfirecat

Here's the Cracked piece about him and a few other famous cats...

DAMNIT CRACKED STOP TAKING AWAY THE ARCANE-NESS OF MY KNOWLEDGE

I KNEW ABOUT UNSINKABLE SAM BEFORE IT WAS COOL

287 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:01:25am

re: #277 Gus

Yeah, I did a search for Nov 2008 to April 2009. Got 3 pages of results.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

288 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:03:41am

re: #286 erik_t

DAMNIT CRACKED STOP TAKING AWAY THE ARCANE-NESS OF MY KNOWLEDGE

I KNEW ABOUT UNSINKABLE SAM BEFORE IT WAS COOL

For a humor site, Cracked has some really awesome history articles.

289 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:04:23am

re: #270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

To have a completely dedicated HSR along the NEC would mean separating the slow speed trains that NJ Transit, Metro North and others operate along the same routes. The infrastructure costs to do so are incredibly high as it is around the NYC metro area even without eminent domain.

For instance, separating Amtrak from NJT and Metro North/LIRR train traffic to improve traffic flow through Sunnyside Yards is a $354 million project. That's a project requiring no eminent domain condemnations - it "only" requires keeping the trains moving all through construction phases 24/7 to build a bypass allowing Amtrak to avoid congestion due to local train traffic.

Amtrak's Gateway Tunnel project is likely to be $9-12 billion - to build 2 new Hudson River tunnels that would significantly increase traffic into Manhattan (and NJ Transit to a lesser extent). Eminent domain isn't a major cost factor as compared to total cost.

Portal Bridge is a $1.3 billion project to replace old bridge. No significant eminent domain considerations there.

290 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:04:48am

re: #287 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, I did a search for Nov 2008 to April 2009. Got 3 pages of results.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

This user is blocked.
This user is blocked.
This user is blocked.
This user is blocked.

Yeah. I was surprised when I first saw them use it. Down right disgusting considering none of them had any excuse for it -- like some old codger and Pacific theater veteran.

291 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:04:52am

re: #288 Learned Mother of Zion

For a humor site, Cracked has some really awesome history articles.

They do, although occasionally they'll delve into my area of expertise and make me want to rip out my own eyes.

Also known as '60-Minutes-ing'.

292 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:04:55am

re: #288 Learned Mother of Zion

For a humor site, Cracked has some really awesome history articles.

Yes, yes they do. You can learn a lot from reading Cracked.

293 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:06:04am

re: #290 Gus

And that creature, "MandyManners", seemed like reveling in ethnic insults.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:07:44am

re: #105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

OK, I'll spoil it. But it's still worth reading.
In Ancient China...
1. Farmer's barn burns down with pig inside
2. Son accidently pokes finger into cooked/burnt pig
3. Son licks burnt fingers and discovers excellent taste
4. Repeat of #2 and #3 - done on purpose
5. Rest of family converted after some plot development
6. Family and other farmers start burning down barns with pigs inside
7. Profit!!!

Why do people keep pigs if they don't know they're edible?

295 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:07:58am

re: #290 Gus

This user is blocked.
This user is blocked.
This user is blocked.
This user is blocked.

Yeah. I was surprised when I first saw them use it. Down right disgusting considering none of them had any excuse for it -- like some old codger and Pacific theater veteran.

My dad was a WW2 Pacific vet, and I never heard him use that word.

296 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:08:25am

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do people keep pigs if they don't know they're edible?

Guard pig?

297 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:08:54am

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do people keep pigs if they don't know they're edible?

Truffle hunting.

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:09:05am

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do people keep pigs if they don't know they're edible?

There's yet another explanation, but something compels me to be silent.

///

299 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:09:29am

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

There's yet another explanation, but something compels me to be silent.

///

O_o

300 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:10:39am

re: #299 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Google Vase de Noces. ;)

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:11:08am

re: #298 Sergey Romanov

There's yet another explanation, but something compels me to be silent.

///

Yours is probably most plausible, as pigs are expensive to raise.

302 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:11:39am

re: #301 SanFranciscoZionist

Yours is probably most plausible, as pigs are expensive to raise.

Garbage disposal?

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:12:44am

re: #302 Learned Mother of Zion

Garbage disposal?

I don't think that's what he's implying no.

304 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:12:51am

re: #293 Sergey Romanov

And that creature, "MandyManners", seemed like reveling in ethnic insults.

Mandy was one that kinda went both ways. Sometimes she made some good comments, and sometimes she went way off the derp end. She did seem to be a glutton for deliberately offending people, though.

305 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:12:53am

re: #295 Learned Mother of Zion

My dad was a WW2 Pacific vet, and I never heard him use that word.

It, and worse, were common language in our 1950s schoolyard. Many of us were in the school because our fathers didn't come back. It was an indulgence we outgrew, mostly.

306 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:14:04am

re: #293 Sergey Romanov

And that creature, "xxxx", seemed like reveling in ethnic insults.

Hey, I remember that name. Kept driving me away from my lurking on about a monthly basis for several years, never mind registering.

307 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:14:27am

heh. General subject of the last 200 comments seems to be "How did someone decide _Object X_ was useful, or actually find a purpose for it?"

As applied to:
1. Lobster
2. Pigs
3. The UN
4. Eminent Domain
5. Cats

Plus the observation of some people thinking our foreign policy should be based on "The US is a honey badger".

308 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:14:41am

re: #303 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think that's what he's implying no.

Not Googling Sergey's phrase. I'm at work, OK it's my last day at this job, but still...probably blocked anyway.

309 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:15:22am

re: #308 Learned Mother of Zion

Not Googling Sergey's phrase. I'm at work, OK it's my last day at this job, but still...probably blocked anyway.

Actually the first result should be a wiki article. Although that could stain one's mind too.

310 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:17:59am

You learn something new everyday.

//

311 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:18:14am

re: #309 Sergey Romanov

Actually the first result should be a wiki article. Although that could stain one's mind too.

"Is he/she pretty?"
"She/he has a face like a pig."

312 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:22:37am
313 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:23:30am

I'm off,

Have a great day all!

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:24:20am

re: #300 Sergey Romanov

I was actually reminded of this flick by a recent LJ entry by a Nashi (Putinist youth group) press-secretary. But I knew about it years before. There was actually sort of a niche genre of Soviet lit - books about the decadent West, and specifically about the decadent cinema. I don't know if that was the intent or not, but these books were actually very interesting to read, with descriptions, screenshots and all. So it was in one of those books that I learned about Zardoz, Exorcist, Godfather, Deliverance, and many other expressions of the filtyh bourgeois mind, including, yes, Vase de Noces. A topic of its own, I guess.

315 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:25:32am

Guantanamo detainee Majid Khan admits terror charges

The first "high value" prisoner held at the US's Guantanamo Bay detention centre has pleaded guilty to terror charges at a war crimes tribunal.

Pakistani Majid Khan, who had lived in the US, agreed to enter the plea in exchange for leniency.

He faces charges which include conspiring with al-Qaeda, murder and attempted murder.

The 32 year old has been in secret US custody since 2003 and alleges that he has been psychologically tortured.

According to a plea bargain document released by the US government, Khan's sentence would be capped at 25 years in exchange for pleading guilty...

Splodey heads!

316 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:26:26am

re: #295 Learned Mother of Zion

My dad was a WW2 Pacific vet, and I never heard him use that word.

This genre of comics kept the language and the ideas behind it alive. (I remember one from about 1955 in which the Viet Mihn were the 'good guys'.)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

317 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:29:11am

re: #315 Gus

Guantanamo detainee Majid Khan admits terror charges

Splodey heads!

Mmm, wingnut tears. Now I'm hungry.

318 darthstar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:30:27am

re: #315 Gus

Guantanamo detainee Majid Khan admits terror charges

Splodey heads!

Fine, fine, I'm guilty. Get me the fuck out of here and I'll serve 17 years in one of those fancy prisons with beds and shit.

319 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:30:45am

re: #317 thedopefishlives

Mmm, wingnut tears. Now I'm hungry.

Don't worry. I'm sure the wingnuts will take this calmly.

//

320 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:30:48am

re: #315 Gus

'splody heads, part II:

North Korea agrees to moratorium nuclear weapons and missile programs in exchange for food aid.

The United States said Wednesday North Korea has agreed to suspend nuclear activities and accept a moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests, in a breakthrough in negotiations with the secretive communist nation.

The announcement comes little more than two months after the death of longtime ruler Kim Jong Il, and suggests North Korea has met the key U.S. preconditions for restarting multi-nation disarmament-for-aid talks that the North withdrew from in 2009.

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the North has agreed to allow International Atomic Energy inspectors to verify and monitor the moratorium on uranium enrichment and confirm disablement of its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon.

Her statement says the US will meet with North Korea to finalize details for a proposed package of 240,000 metric tons of food aid.

North Korea issued a similar, although differently worded statement released simultaneously in Pyongyang.

Trust but verify still plays a role here, but that the regime is willing to go this route suggests that the agricultural situation (famine) is far worse than the regime is letting on. May mean that the regime is beginning to shift away from the more militaristic tone taken by Jong-il (could be wishful thinking on my part).

321 darthstar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:31:31am

re: #319 Gus

Don't worry. I'm sure the wingnuts will take this calmly.

//

GEORGEBUSHWASRIGHT! REINVADEIRAQ!

322 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:32:10am

re: #320 lawhawk

'splody heads, part II:

North Korea agrees to moratorium nuclear weapons and missile programs in exchange for food aid.

Trust but verify still plays a role here, but that the regime is willing to go this route suggests that the agricultural situation (famine) is far worse than the regime is letting on. May mean that the regime is beginning to shift away from the more militaristic tone taken by Jong-il (could be wishful thinking on my part).

Yep. I see the news out of North Korea as good news. Much work to be done but this is a good start.

323 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:33:54am

re: #319 Gus

Don't worry. I'm sure the wingnuts will take this calmly.

//

Don't do that. I'm on a teleconference, you bastard.

324 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:34:39am

“Man was put on this earth to eat meat...The Bible says so dumbbell...I mean look it up will ya? All them old bible peoples, they was always eating meet; soon as they found out eating apples was wrong...It's true, on special occasions: goats and lambs. Who the hell ever hear of sacrificing a head of lettuce? You?” -- Archie Bunker

325 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:35:44am

re: #105 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

OK, I'll spoil it. But it's still worth reading.
In Ancient China...
1. Farmer's barn burns down with pig inside
2. Son accidently pokes finger into cooked/burnt pig
3. Son licks burnt fingers and discovers excellent taste
4. Repeat of #2 and #3 - done on purpose
5. Rest of family converted after some plot development
6. Family and other farmers start burning down barns with pigs inside
7. Profit!!!

sure it was much older than that:

1. Paleolithic hunters come across pig which has been killed and baked in forest fire
2. Pig taste good!
3. Hunters learn to drive pigs into burning forests...

326 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:36:22am

We are omnivores. We eat what we can get.

327 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:37:00am

re: #324 Gus

“Man was put on this earth to eat meat...The Bible says so dumbbell...I mean look it up will ya? All them old bible peoples, they was always eating meet; soon as they found out eating apples was wrong...It's true, on special occasions: goats and lambs. Who the hell ever hear of sacrificing a head of lettuce? You?” -- Archie Bunker

Archie could have continued the thought by quoting Genesis 4:

3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

328 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:38:24am

Lord God is a meat-eater. Take that, vegans.

329 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:38:53am

re: #328 Sergey Romanov

Lord God is a meat-eater. Take that, vegans.

Ya gotta eat meat! Sez so in the bible.

//

330 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:40:38am

re: #320 lawhawk

This just looks like the same old cycle from North Korea of sabre-rattling, backing down a bit in exchange for oil, food, etc. and then starting over again a few years later.

331 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:40:45am

re: #325 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

sure it was much older than that:

1. Paleolithic hunters come across pig which has been killed and baked in forest fire
2. Pig taste good!
3. Hunters learn to drive pigs into burning forests...

70s Anthropology classic (inspired an album by Fine Young Cannibals)

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

332 darthstar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:42:22am

re: #329 Gus

Ya gotta eat meat! Sez so in the bible.

//

That's why I read this bible every day.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:42:33am

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has ordered his government to draft a new law punishing denial of the Armenian genocide after a top court struck down a previous bill.

*sigh*

334 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:42:43am
335 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:43:03am

re: #332 darthstar

That's why I read this bible every day.

Now I really am hungry.

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:43:17am

re: #334 Gus

Works for me.

337 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:43:35am

re: #330 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That's surely a possibility - that they're playing games and that this step allows the regime to take the pressure off it by having a starving populace and once the famine lets up, they go back to their old ways.

Or, it could be a real breakthrough and change in policy that has a lasting effect.

Hope for the latter - prepare for the former.

338 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:43:54am

re: #325 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

sure it was much older than that:

1. Paleolithic hunters come across pig which has been killed and baked in forest fire
2. Pig taste good!
3. Hunters learn to drive pigs into burning forests...

Of course. Lamb was being a bit facetious. Though not to the jaw-dropping level of Swift's "A Modest Proposal".

339 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:44:01am

re: #336 Sergey Romanov

Works for me.

I had to do "open in new tab." Anywho... this be it...

Image: Leith%20meat.jpg

340 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:44:09am

Mmmm..veggies. Off to work in the garden.

342 darthstar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:46:33am
343 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:46:42am
344 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:47:39am

Of course. That art would make most Americans uncomfortable.

345 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:48:19am
346 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:48:33am

Carla, my love.

347 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:49:32am
348 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:54:43am

re: #322 Gus

This one is awesome:

Image: Princess_Sputnik.jpg

349 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:54:43am

Oops. James Murdoch not Rupert Murdoch...

350 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:55:52am

re: #332 darthstar

That's why I read this bible every day.

...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu...

351 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:56:03am

re: #348 Obdicut

It says "embryo".

352 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:57:08am

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

It says "embryo".

Tattoos!

Image: ryden-sputnik.jpg

353 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:57:53am

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

It says "embryo".

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

354 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 8:59:50am
355 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:01:51am

re: #353 Gus

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

There are actually closeups on Ryden's site. "Please click here for detail views"

356 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:02:10am

re: #355 Sergey Romanov

There are actually closeups on Ryden's site. "Please click here for detail views"

Ah. Thanks.

357 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:03:38am

Dunno, I think there's place both for Mario and Luigi there.

Image: Yoshi.jpg

358 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:03:49am

Holy hell, this is good news:[Link: www.reuters.com...]

359 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:04:33am

re: #358 prairiefire

Holy hell, this is good news:[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Yeah, except the GOP will find some way to complain about it, I'm sure. I imagine their reaction will show up on the front page here on LGF.

360 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:05:25am

re: #359 thedopefishlives

"But but but what did Obama promise in return? Surely Alaska!"

361 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:06:44am

re: #357 Sergey Romanov

Dunno, I think there's place both for Mario and Luigi there.

Image: Yoshi.jpg

More Wednesday Addams. The others reminds me of Christina Ricci.

362 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:07:47am

re: #335 thedopefishlives

Now I really am hungry.

Then it's time to go to the butchers'!

Image: The_Butcher_Bunny.jpg

363 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:07:58am

re: #360 Sergey Romanov

"But but but what did Obama promise in return? Surely Alaska!"

Give 'em Texas. Nobody will miss that.

364 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:08:47am

re: #359 thedopefishlives

Yeah, except the GOP will find some way to complain about it, I'm sure. I imagine their reaction will show up on the front page here on LGF.

Something like Obama is cuddling Korean terrorist supporting government the same as Clinton did whereas any red-blooded real American POTUS would invade and put their rabid cult of personality down without suffering a single casualty.

While ignoring that the basic US foreign policy vis-a-vis North Korea has been roughly this policy for the last 20+ years. "Axis of Evil" rhetoric aside, we've been cajoling and buying them off the whole time and hoping for internal change to take hold.

365 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:10:59am

I've got three nickels on a 'negotiatin' with the enemy' line.

366 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:12:48am

re: #365 erik_t

I've got three nickels on a 'negotiatin' with the enemy' line.

Good times!

Obama is teh appeasing presudent!

367 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:13:38am

re: #359 thedopefishlives

Yeah, except the GOP will find some way to complain about it, I'm sure. I imagine their reaction will show up on the front page here on LGF.

I got it, and I am almost ready to take bets on how long it takes this meme to come up:

"Obama, not content to the the greatest US Food-Stamp President, expands program to include North Korea"

368 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:14:18am

re: #358 prairiefire

Holy hell, this is good news:[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Sort of but N Korea has been playing games with UN inspectors long before the Iranians started. They get some concessions for offering things that they have no plans to deliver on. Buried further down in your article....

"This puts an element of control back on the North Koreans' nuclear development program as well as their existing capabilities that we have not had for almost four years," said Jack Pritchard, a former U.S. negotiator with North Korea who heads the Korea Economic Institute.

But Pritchard said he believed it was unlikely that Pyongyang's young and untested new leader Kim Jong-un was ready to comply with demands that he scrap the entire nuclear program.

"How does a 28-year-old give up the only legitimate piece of leverage that he has in dealing with the superpowers to preserve the survivability of his regime? He's not going to do that," Pritchard said.

They've been doing this for a long time...

North Korea agreed to curtail its nuclear activities under a an aid-for-denuclearization agreement reached in September 2005 by six-party talks bringing together North and South Korea, China, Japan, Russia and the United States.

Under the agreement, the North agreed to abandon its nuclear programs in exchange for economic and diplomatic incentives to be provided by the other parties involved in the negotiations.

But the embryonic deal was never fully implemented.

Instead, the North held two nuclear test blasts -- in 2006 and 2009 -- and later disclosed a uranium enrichment program, giving it a second path to obtaining fissile material for bombs, in addition to its long-standing program of producing plutonium.

369 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:14:28am

re: #367 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I got it, and I am almost ready to take bets on how long it takes this meme to come up:

"Obama, not content to the the greatest US Food-Stamp President, expands program to include North Korea"

You win an Internet for your wingnut-speak.

370 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:15:48am

re: #3 freetoken

Gardening.

I propose that if more Americans had to grow a noticeable amount of their own food then we'd be much better off, not just health-wise but with our social interactions and cultural dynamics.

I agree, although I will not be working on my gardening today.

It's snowing.

371 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:17:23am

re: #360 Sergey Romanov

"But but but what did Obama promise in return? Surely Alaska!"

If we "return" Alaska, I'm sure the Inuits, Eskimos, and Native Americans would be happy to take it back.

372 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:21:09am

Am I guilty of thread-o-cide?

373 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:21:40am

re: #372 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Am I guilty of thread-o-cide?

Not really. I'm kinda quiet at the moment because I'm on a conference call. Stupid work.

374 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:27:32am

re: #372 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Am I guilty of thread-o-cide?

Lost connection. Went to wash some dishes.

375 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:29:04am

re: #358 prairiefire

Holy hell, this is good news:[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Breathing space for a short while is all. That regime is composed of psychopaths. They don't change.

376 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:29:15am

re: #357 Sergey Romanov

Dunno, I think there's place both for Mario and Luigi there.

Image: Yoshi.jpg

That's so cute!

377 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:30:06am

re: #368 Killgore Trout

We shall see.

378 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:30:34am

Derp...

There were never school shootings when prayer was in school. Nothing even remotely like it. But now, for the most part, God has been thrown out of our public schools, and they have had to install the metal detector instead. Even that is not fail-proof ... I find it ironic that yesterday’s shooting would occur in the shadow of the 50th anniversary of the infamous school prayer decision. In June 1962, in Engel v. Vitale, the Supreme Court ruled that schools could not officially participate in prayer.

Specifically, the High Court banned this seemingly innocuous prayer: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessing upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country."

...

As long as our schools don’t have a prayer, I suppose some of them need to have a sign installed out in front: Enter at your own risk.

See Newcombe: School Prayer Would Have Prevented Ohio School Shooting

379 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:31:06am

re: #370 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Snowing here as well. Along with a 14 (gusting to 23) mph wind out of the west.

[Link: lb.511.idaho.gov...]

380 AK-47%  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:32:02am

re: #378 Gus

This is an article of faith this these people and is not subject to any sort of argument.

382 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:33:39am

re: #381 erik_t

Quite so. Back in the good old days, nary a child was harmed in a school shooting.

Yeah, but back in those days, kids carried guns to school. 2ND AMENDMENT FOR MY PRECIOUS LITTLE SNOWFLAKE!

383 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:34:09am

re: #381 erik_t

Quite so. Back in the good old days, nary a child was harmed in a school shooting.

Thanks! Was about to look some history up.

384 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:35:50am

Ya see. Back in the good old days...

//

385 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:38:20am
386 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:38:25am

Bath School disaster

May 18, 1927 : In the deadliest mass school murder in United States history, former school board member Andrew Kehoe set off three bombs in Bath Township, Michigan killing 45 people and wounding 58. Kehoe killed himself and the superintendent by blowing up his own vehicle.

387 compound_Idaho  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:38:35am

re: #379 Bubblehead II

Snowing here as well. Along with a 14 (gusting to 23) mph wind out of the west.

[Link: lb.511.idaho.gov...]

Not a good day for base jumping.

388 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:38:46am
389 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:39:27am

re: #387 compound_Idaho

Not a good day for base jumping.

Screw that, I wouldn't even drive over that...
:/

390 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:39:54am

re: #386 Gus

Bath School disaster

YEAH IN A DEMOCRAT PARTY STRONGHOLD STATE! THEY PROBLY WASN'T PRAYIN' ANYWAY

391 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:41:52am

Newt's new web ad looks like he's making Fabio sniff his armpit.

[Link: googleads.g.doubleclick.net...]

392 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:42:21am

Right about now someone would bring up Stalin and atheism.

//

393 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:42:47am

re: #386 Gus

Homemade Trailer for "If...."
Malcolm McDowell's first film.

394 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:42:55am

re: #392 Gus

Right about now someone would bring up Stalin and atheism.

//

Gus's Law, as a variation of Godwin's Law.

395 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:43:49am
396 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:44:22am
397 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:45:13am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

The original trailer is much better...
If....(1968)

398 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:47:01am

re: #396 Varek Raith

Lol.

But a few of them were really considering it:

HB0085HW001/A

Page 3-line 19 Delete "." insert ";".

Page 3-after line 19 Insert:

"(vii) Conditions under which the state of Wyoming should implement a draft, raise a standing army, marine corps, navy and air force and acquire strike aircraft and an aircraft carrier.". BROWN

[Link: legisweb.state.wy.us...]

399 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:47:23am

re: #396 Varek Raith

Lol.

I love the part where he says, "And I would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids the media attention it got."

400 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:47:35am

re: #398 Gus

But a few of them were really considering it:

[Link: legisweb.state.wy.us...]

And here:

[Link: legisweb.state.wy.us...]

401 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:48:33am

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Heh,

Wouldn't it make sense for governments to have a filing cabinet somewhere with plans for things like: natural disasters, riots, war, etc?

I like the idea that if a tsunami hit the Oregon coast, someone in Salem has thought about what to do and how to handle it.

402 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:49:25am

re: #401 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Wouldn't it make sense for governments to have a filing cabinet somewhere with plans for things like: natural disasters, riots, war, etc?

I like the idea that if a tsunami hit the Oregon coast, someone in Salem has thought about what to do and how to handle it.

FEMA!

403 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:50:57am

re: #401 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Wouldn't it make sense for governments to have a filing cabinet somewhere with plans for things like: natural disasters, riots, war, etc?

I like the idea that if a tsunami hit the Oregon coast, someone in Salem has thought about what to do and how to handle it.

There are tsunami signs and warnings all up and down the coast.

Unless you mean a tsunami that reached Salem, in which case I think the plan could reasonably be summarized as 'kiss your ass goodbye'.

404 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:52:15am

re: #403 erik_t

There are tsunami signs and warnings all up and down the coast.

Unless you mean a tsunami that reached Salem, in which case I think the plan could reasonably be summarized as 'kiss your ass goodbye'.

If the people in Salem don't have a tsunami plan in place what am I paying them for.

Also, a sign up on the wall doesn't really help for things like getting food, shelter and supplies to the survivors. That's what the state government is supposed to do.

405 Gus  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:52:28am

Must. Work. BBL

406 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:53:24am

re: #403 erik_t

There are tsunami signs and warnings all up and down the coast.

Unless you mean a tsunami that reached Salem, in which case I think the plan could reasonably be summarized as 'kiss your ass goodbye'.

"Well, that plan sucks"
-Jack O'Neill.

407 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:53:53am

re: #404 To hold my temper, most of the time.

If the people in Salem don't have a tsunami plan in place what am I paying them for.

Also, a sign up on the wall doesn't really help for things like getting food, shelter and supplies to the survivors. That's what the state government is supposed to do.

Huh? Sirens and evacuation routes are probably all that is necessary for the relatively meager population along the coast, which is itself located almost entirely within a mile of quite high hills.

408 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 9:56:10am

re: #392 Gus

Right about now someone would bring up Stalin and atheism.

//

Your wish is my command.

Stalin, the ex-seminarian, may never have entirely lost his faith. He told the British ambassador that, in his own way, ‘he too believed in God’. The word began to appear in Pravda with a capital letter.

Richard Overy, Russia's War, 1998, p. 162.

409 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:00:26am

re: #407 erik_t

Huh? Sirens and evacuation routes are probably all that is necessary for the relatively meager population along the coast, which is itself located almost entirely within a mile of quite high hills.

Coos Bay alone has nearly 16,000 people. Plus, in places like Seaside, the official population is nowhere near the actual count of how many people might be in Seaside at that moment.

That's a lot of people to have suddenly homeless and possibly jobless, even if the sirens get everyone out of dangers way quickly.

410 Kragar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:01:33am
411 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:02:19am
412 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:02:47am

re: #411 prairiefire

Kilgore has his doubts.

I think they're 'concerns'.

413 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:03:14am

re: #411 prairiefire

Kilgore has his doubts.

It's all an OWS plot!
/

414 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:03:15am

Damn tornadoes, again.[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

415 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:04:27am

re: #406 Varek Raith

"Well, that plan sucks"
-Jack O'Neill.

Well, y'know, Salem is +150ft elevation and like 40mi inland, 100mi if you're going around the coast range. If they're getting tsunami'd, Wyoming may need a navy.

Wait.

416 Kragar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:06:21am

re: #411 prairiefire

Kilgore has his doubts.

Obviously its a communist plot to help Obama in an election year.

417 prairiefire  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:10:31am

re: #414 prairiefire

Damn tornadoes, again.[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Usually the "lake effect" from Table Rock Lake helps keep tornadoes from hitting right around Branson, with them then bouncing north. I think the Walmart in the video is higher on the bluff. I hope the 5 & Dime in old Branson didn't get hit, but it looks like it did. That store still had the metal & fabric collapsible shopping baskets. Packed to the rafters with stuff.

418 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:11:47am
419 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:12:43am

re: #401 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Wouldn't it make sense for governments to have a filing cabinet somewhere with plans for things like: natural disasters, riots, war, etc?

I like the idea that if a tsunami hit the Oregon coast, someone in Salem has thought about what to do and how to handle it.

Every state has an Army/Airforce National Guard. And they have filing cabinets.

420 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:14:41am

re: #419 Decatur Deb

Every state has an Army/Airforce National Guard. And they have filing cabinets.

If all else fails, one can always jump in a refrigerator and try to ride it out.

421 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:15:05am

re: #401 To hold my temper, most of the time.

This is having a plan in case the US government collapses. It's a pretty remote possibility, and if it does happen, I doubt that paying legislators an extra $18,000 a year to think real hard about it is going to help prepare.

422 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:16:19am

re: #419 Decatur Deb

Every state has an Army/Airforce National Guard. And they have filing cabinets.

Every state should have a natural disaster plan.
Every state should have a pandemic plan.
Every state should have a riot plan.

The government should coordinate on this.

I remember in my teens, there was a kerfuffle down in Salem over a regulation of the bread sold in Oregon--they mandated a minimum weight, which would have outlawed baguettes. If the state government can spend time on this, they can spend time on things that might actually affect real people.

423 Kragar  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:16:43am

re: #421 Obdicut

This is having a plan in case the US government collapses. It's a pretty remote possibility, and if it does happen, I doubt that paying legislators an extra $18,000 a year to think real hard about it is going to help prepare.

I sure hope the states have been stocking up on gold coins and survival seeds.

424 erik_t  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:18:10am

Ah, excellent. A leak in the roof. Right over my desk.

This won't promise to be irritating or anything.

425 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:20:09am

re: #421 Obdicut

This is having a plan in case the US government collapses. It's a pretty remote possibility, and if it does happen, I doubt that paying legislators an extra $18,000 a year to think real hard about it is going to help prepare.

This is a pretty remote possibility, you are right. I was thinking more of two or three people in an office whose job it is to prepare plans and coordinate with local people to keep the citizenry aware that they should prepare for disasters.

426 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:20:22am

re: #422 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Every state should have a natural disaster plan.
Every state should have a pandemic plan.
Every state should have a riot plan.

The government should coordinate on this.

I remember in my teens, there was a kerfuffle down in Salem over a regulation of the bread sold in Oregon--they mandated a minimum weight, which would have outlawed baguettes. If the state government can spend time on this, they can spend time on things that might actually affect real people.

Between FEMA and the NG, the plans are pretty good. The level of preparedness at the town level can be very spotty. I was on the Army task force for Hurricane Andrew (got the t-shirt), and we saw some towns flat on their backs, others up and running.

427 Simply Sarah  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:20:43am

re: #424 erik_t

Ah, excellent. A leak in the roof. Right over my desk.

This won't promise to be irritating or anything.

Eek. That sucks. Uh, at least you have a flat place to put a bucket?

428 Decatur Deb  Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:21:35am

Lunch. BBL


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 Frank says:

And now....you are going to dance...like you've never danced before!