Soledad O’Brien Interviews Expert on Critical Race Theory, Destroys Breitbart.com’s Lies

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Soledad O’Brien had a great followup yesterday on the subject of “Critical Race Theory,” calling on Emory University’s Dorothy Brown, who teaches the theory, to explain it in more detail. Along the way, the distorted nonsense still being hyped by the breitbart.com gang was thoroughly destroyed.

Here’s Dorothy Brown answering the absurd charge that President Obama is a follower of Critical Race Theory (which, by the way, is the whole point of this ridiculous fake controversy — to make Obama out to be a dangerous angry black radical):

O’Brien: Do you see a footprint of CRT all over the Obama administration, which we’re several years in now?

Brown: No, I see no footprints, I see no vapors, I see none of Critical Race Theory in President Obama, either his writings or what he’s actually done in office. I’m dumbstruck by that statement.

O’Brien: So what do you think’s going on here? Because the conversation … got very heated.

Brown: Yes, I believe what’s going on is, the person that was on your show (Breitbart.com’s Joel Pollak) wasn’t going to be persuaded by the facts. He was going to make his own facts up. So, when he makes statements like that, there’s no evidence in support of it. He talks about, if I recall, the Attorney General’s office doing something, but there wasn’t anything specific. So I look at this as a smear tactic.

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163 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:08:33pm

So they're totally ignoring THE HUG?
/

2 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:11:07pm

Hugs lead to socialism and Islam.

3 erik_t  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:14:20pm

re: #1 Kragar

So they're totally ignoring THE HUG?
/

TERRORIST FIST-BUMP!

4 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:16:08pm

I love this woman!!!!

5 carlaschluge  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:20:41pm

re: #4 Iwouldprefernotto

Which one? Brown or O'Brien.

6 makeitstop  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:20:42pm

Soledad has always done good work. No exception here.

7 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:23:36pm

re: #5 carlaschluge

Which one? Brown or O'Brien.

Both. We need more like them to balance out the stupid.

8 SpaceJesus  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:24:30pm

Maybe all conservatives need is a hug.

Maybe they're trying to tell us something here, something so obvious we've missed it all these years. All this acting out...they just want a hug

9 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:26:36pm

The Breitbartistas have no idea what Critical Race Theory is. This is not a problem for them, since they know they can get away with using the term any way they like.
What really amazes me about this kerfuffle is their claim that Barack Obama, a center right leader by global standards, has comprehensively applied this theory in his administration. Worse yet, and the aspect that really speaks to creeping Idiocracy, is their evidence for this claim: A young Obama attending a lecture over 20 years ago and embracing the distinguished professor who had delivered it.

10 SpaceJesus  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:26:58pm

There is literally no other explanation for their behavior. I mean, to be acting out this much, you have to be insane or just want a hug.

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:28:19pm

Critical Race Theory.

Sounds scary and radical.

Don't really need to know what it is about.

/

12 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:28:36pm

re: #10 SpaceJesus

There is literally no other explanation for their behavior. I mean, to be acting out this much, you have to be insane or just want a hug.

Living in Lubbock (78% GOP in '08) I'm probably around these people more than you are. I vote for insane.

13 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:29:34pm

re: #11 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Anything that asks people to look at racism will cause the right wing media machine to fly into a frenzy.

14 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:30:00pm

Former Rick Perry Iowa Campaign Chair hits GOP over Marriage Equality

I heard a lot of rhetoric about gay and lesbian Americans that didn’t fit with what I know to be true and what many Republicans believe. As an evangelical Christian Republican, I know many people who hold conservative values like equality and freedom, but those voices were lost this year. However, I believe in my heart that things are changing. If it weren’t for the loud voices of a few in our party, I do believe more Republicans would stand up in support of marriage equality.

I didn’t always feel that way and my journey toward full support has been a long and intensive one. One of the things that changed my mind on this issue was my children. I used to watch my kids and wonder why equality is a non-issue with them. They love and support their friends, regardless of their sexual orientation, race, gender or religion.

Then I realized that I was tired of watching adults judge each other while my children could embrace the differences in their friends. After all, that is what being a Christian is all about.

What I learned from the 2012 Republican Caucus was this: If we don’t stand together this year, we will lose. What is our party if not the party of freedom? This is a matter of freedom, and I want people to be free. It’s the American thing to do.

15 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:30:34pm

I have to admit to being amused by right wingers like Pollak who claim that guys like Bell and Obama are supporting white supremacy yet have no problem with people like Rand Paul who think things like the Civil Rights Act of 1964 are bad.

16 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:31:58pm

re: #14 Kragar

Former Rick Perry Iowa Campaign Chair hits GOP over Marriage Equality

I appreciate her thoughts but why on earth was she, a self proclaimed supporter of gay marriage backing Perry in the first place. After Santorum, Perry was probably the most hostile to gays of any of the candidates.

17 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:33:31pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

I appreciate her thoughts but why on earth was she, a self proclaimed supporter of gay marriage backing Perry in the first place. After Santorum, Perry was probably the most hostile to gays of any of the candidates.

Well, she admits to her view changing. I wouldn't be surprised if she comes under attack for making her statement.

18 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:34:14pm

Here's how a Breitbart.com fan understands CRT: CNN's O'Brien: 'Stop Tweeting Me'

It is about black supremacy or the Black Panthers. It states that if whites hold colored folk down because that is the only way for whites not to be overtaken.  Solidad , professor what ever your name is, thank you for proving the point even though you both had know idea that you did. 

19 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:35:41pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Here's how a Breitbart.com fan understands CRT: CNN's O'Brien: 'Stop Tweeting Me'

Wow, authentic frontier gibberish still exists.

20 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:36:50pm

re: #19 Kragar

Wow, authentic frontier gibberish still exists.

Gabby Johnson was elegant compared to that.

21 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:38:14pm

re: #20 HappyWarrior

Gabby Johnson was elegant compared to that.

I no what you mean.

22 erik_t  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:40:13pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Here's how a Breitbart.com fan understands CRT: CNN's O'Brien: 'Stop Tweeting Me'

'Colored folk'?

Even my crazy old grandmother has gotten past that one.

23 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:42:10pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Here's how a Breitbart.com fan understands CRT: CNN's O'Brien: 'Stop Tweeting Me'

Looks like another one of those "English Only" people who manage to mangle English every.single.time.

24 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:43:43pm

Why is Eddie Murphy glaring at me from the advertisement?!?

:(

25 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:45:02pm

Another genius weighs in on CRT:

If you have a theory and you can't explain it to a small child, there's nothing wrong with the child.

CRT is a pile of racist doo-doo. Watching these braniacs discussing what CRT 'really' is is about as meaningful as listening to a fat man go on about his glandular problem.

26 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:46:17pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

If you have a theory and you can't explain it to a small child, there's nothing wrong with the child.

Well, that's probably a true statement, but it doesn't really say anything about the theory, either.

It's really hard to explain the Monty Hall problem to kids, or Game Theory in general.

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:47:07pm

Time for _Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying_ I think.
/

28 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:49:28pm

re: #27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Time for _Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying_ I think.
/

The Little Engine That Explained Sexual Selection and Its Impact On The Evolution of Parasites.

29 erik_t  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:51:55pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

If you have a theory and you can't explain it to a small child, there's nothing wrong with the child.

Navier-Stokes is really complicated, therefore turbulence isn't a real phenomenon.

Band-gap theory depends on weird quantum effects, therefore light-emitting diodes don't actually emit light.

Fourier transforms involve imaginary numbers, therefore jpegs and bitmaps are really the same size.

30 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:52:50pm

re: #28 Obdicut

The Little Engine That Explained Sexual Selection and Its Impact On The Evolution of Parasites.

"Jimmy, I think you're old enough for daddy to explain the socio-economic role the Papal States played during the Third Crusade."

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:53:13pm

re: #9 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

The Breitbartistas have no idea what Critical Race Theory is. This is not a problem for them, since they know they can get away with using the term any way they like.
What really amazes me about this kerfuffle is their claim that Barack Obama, a center right leader by global standards, has comprehensively applied this theory in his administration. Worse yet, and the aspect that really speaks to creeping Idiocracy, is their evidence for this claim: A young Obama attending a lecture over 20 years ago and embracing the distinguished professor who had delivered it.

The Breitbartistas know exactly what Critical Race Theory is. It's intellectual, and about race in the United States, and it wasn't created by one of their VDare buddies, so it's BAD.

32 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:53:37pm

re: #30 Kragar

The Giving Tree's Extended Phenotype.

33 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:55:21pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Another genius weighs in on CRT:

If you have a theory and you can't explain it to a small child, there's nothing wrong with the child.

Their theory of economics: Cut taxes, abolish regulations, create jobs.

34 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:56:23pm

re: #28 Obdicut

The Little Engine That Explained Sexual Selection and Its Impact On The Evolution of Parasites.

Anyone played that awesome new kid's board game Chutes and General Relativity?

35 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:56:27pm

The entire right wing take on CRT, Prof. Bell, and President Obama is nothing more than a conspiracy theory. If you burrow down through the multiple layers of steamy bullshit, the basic allegation is that Obama is a dangerous angry black radical who has been hiding that fact for decades, with the help of Harvard University and a host of academics, the media, and George Soros.

Not kidding about Soros - there was an article at Breitbart.com making that connection.

36 erik_t  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:56:57pm

re: #32 Obdicut

The Giving Tree's Extended Phenotype.

Underpants Gnomes and the Theory of Profit Motive.

37 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:57:07pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

I appreciate her thoughts but why on earth was she, a self proclaimed supporter of gay marriage backing Perry in the first place.

She really dug the way he looked in that Heath Ledger jacket...

38 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:00:39pm

I guess at some point Obama will drop the mask and nuke Alabama, or something.

39 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:01:07pm

re: #29 erik_t

Fourier transforms involve imaginary numbers, therefore jpegs and bitmaps are really the same size.

Let's not confuse these mighty scholars with the concept of imaginary numbers.

40 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:02:08pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

Maybe all conservatives need is a hug.

Maybe they're trying to tell us something here, something so obvious we've missed it all these years. All this acting out...they just want a hug

Fine - but you're going to have to be the one to provide it. I'll get spring for the hazmat suit.

41 erik_t  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:02:27pm

re: #39 Girth

Let's not confuse these mighty scholars with the concept of imaginary numbers.

I don't happen to believe in them, myself. That's why my whole house is wired DC, as God and Edison intended.

42 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:03:03pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

I guess at some point Obama will drop the mask and nuke Alabama, or something.

Would anyone notice?
/

43 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:03:48pm

re: #41 erik_t

I don't happen to believe in them, myself. That's why my whole house is wired DC, as God and Edison intended.

Alternating current is truly the work of Satan.

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:04:59pm

if you cannot explain how to reformat a website without breaking all the links, there is nothing wrong with the website...

45 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:05:12pm

_The Macronomic Effect of Word Salad_ subtitled "How to Solve the Traveling Salesman Problem using Truncated Bus Tours" by S. Palin

46 erik_t  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:05:53pm

Okay, too much laughter at work, gotta close the window. Y'all are going to get me in trouble.

47 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:06:03pm

Wait. The far right suddenly doesn't like racism?

48 harrylook  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:06:12pm

Did Prof. Brown say that Prof Bell believed in 'separate but equal'? I would have liked to hear more on what Prof. Bell actually believed.

49 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:08:35pm

re: #47 Freeze Peach

Wait. The far right suddenly doesn't like racism?

They just don't like people talking about it. Its like women having sex, you see.

50 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:10:09pm

re: #48 harrylook

Did Prof. Brown say that Prof Bell believed in 'separate but equal'? I would have liked to hear more on what Prof. Bell actually believed.

Not familiar with Bell's writing, but the comment in the video speculated about Bell's view as that the reasoning behind Brown vs. Board of Education was flawed due to a lack of funding for creating equality.

51 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:10:28pm

re: #49 Kragar

They just don't like people talking about it. Its like women having sex, you see.

Certainly not "critical" race theory. You are suppsed to accept race in America for what it is, or rather for what it was in the 1950's...

52 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:18:08pm

re: #49 Kragar

They just don't like people talking about it. Its like women having sex, you see.

Hide it in a hiding place where no one ever goes.
Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes.
It's a little secret, just the Robinson's affair.
Most of all you've got to hide it from the kids.

53 SidewaysQuark  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:19:57pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Another genius weighs in on CRT:

"If you have a theory and you can't explain it to a small child, there's nothing wrong with the child."

LOLwut? I'll remember that the next time a kindergartener asks me about Quantum Field Theory.

54 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:20:36pm

re: #50 Talking Point Detective

Not familiar with Bell's writing, but the comment in the video speculated about Bell's view as that the reasoning behind Brown vs. Board of Education was flawed due to a lack of funding for creating equality.

That sounds like a nuance and/or context free piece of reasoning since there were the 60 or so years between Plessy v Ferguson and Brown v Board of Education where it had been shown that funding was not the issue, but that "separate but equal" was simply the fig-leaf to allow continued de facto segregation and second-class citizenship for a sizable block of American citizens.

55 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:22:53pm

re: #29 erik_t

Navier-Stokes is really complicated, therefore turbulence isn't a real phenomenon.

Band-gap theory depends on weird quantum effects, therefore light-emitting diodes don't actually emit light.

Fourier transforms involve imaginary numbers, therefore jpegs and bitmaps are really the same size.

just what i would expect a phlogiston denier to say

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:24:18pm

re: #53 SidewaysQuark

LOLwut? I'll remember that the next time a kindergartener asks me about Quantum Field Theory.

Well, there IS nothing wrong with the child who doesn't understand Quantum Field Theory.

There is also nothing wrong with the theory.

57 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:41:31pm

Here's my theory about Critical Race Theory, as expressed in one of my Pages that touched on it:

I believe the Arizona Republicans passed a law that allowed Mexican American Studies to be banned for the same reason that right wingers don’t want Marx or Critical Race Theory to be studied seriously: people might learn where their true interests lie, and act on that. This could upset the current rich-white-male-dominated order. Some people think that would be a bad thing.

There's a little more about it earlier in the Page.

58 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:42:39pm

re: #28 Obdicut

The Little Engine That Explained Sexual Selection and Its Impact On The Evolution of Parasites.

I'm by no means qualified to explain relativistic quantum field theory to a small child (or anyone else), but I really want to meet the person who can, and especially the small child who can understand it.

59 Neutral President  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:43:41pm

re: #53 SidewaysQuark

LOLwut? I'll remember that the next time a kindergartener asks me about Quantum Field Theory.

I'm going to go see if I can find a 5 year old to explain small higher dimensions and Cabali-Yau manifolds to.

So much for M-Theory and LQG...

60 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:46:40pm

re: #44 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

if you cannot explain how to reformat a website without breaking all the links, there is nothing wrong with the website...

...but there soon will be.

61 JAFO  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:51:58pm

OT

Allen West thinks the markets are up in anticipation of a Republican President "five to six months down the road, when we have a change in leadership in this country."

*facepalm*

62 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:52:50pm

re: #61 Ghost of Tom Joad

OT

Allen West thinks the markets are up in anticipation of a Republican President "five to six months down the road, when we have a change in leadership in this country."

*facepalm*

Yeah, that must be it.

63 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:53:22pm

re: #54 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That sounds like a nuance and/or context free piece of reasoning since there were the 60 or so years between Plessy v Ferguson and Brown v Board of Education where it had been shown that funding was not the issue, but that "separate but equal" was simply the fig-leaf to allow continued de facto segregation and second-class citizenship for a sizable block of American citizens.

I'm not sure of the foundation for her speculation - but I think it is reasonable to consider why the ruling of Brown vs. BOE did not ensure desegregated schools. Not that the ruling in itself is responsible, but defacto segregation and second-class citizenship are certainly not phenomena limited to the pre- Brown vs. BOE era.

A lack of funding for education, or more specifically, disparities in funding by race, is certainly a relevant issue.

64 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:54:21pm

re: #58 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

I'm by no means qualified to explain relativistic quantum field theory to a small child (or anyone else), but I really want to meet the person who can, and especially the small child who can understand it.

Groucho: A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.

65 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:55:17pm

re: #61 Ghost of Tom Joad

OT

Allen West thinks the markets are up in anticipation of a Republican President "five to six months down the road, when we have a change in leadership in this country."

*facepalm*

Great logic. I guess anticipation of an eventual Democratic president explains why the market under the Bush presidency suffered relative to the Obama presidency.

66 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 2:56:37pm

re: #65 Talking Point Detective

Great logic. I guess anticipation of an eventual Democratic president explains why the market under the Bush presidency suffered relative to the Obama presidency.

All data will fit into the box. It will rub the lotion on its skin, or it will get the hose again.

67 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:00:24pm

re: #61 Ghost of Tom Joad

OT

Allen West thinks the markets are up in anticipation of a Republican President "five to six months down the road, when we have a change in leadership in this country."

*facepalm*

When did we move Election Day to September?

68 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:00:28pm

re: #61 Ghost of Tom Joad

OT

Allen West thinks the markets are up in anticipation of a Republican President "five to six months down the road, when we have a change in leadership in this country."

*facepalm*

Idiot.

69 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:01:06pm

re: #67 Girth

When did we move Election Day to September?

The same time the markets became psychic and predicted a Republican president would automatically be good for the economy.

70 jaunte  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:03:22pm

George Soros probably knows how not to break all the links in his websites.

71 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:03:42pm

re: #69 HappyWarrior

The same time the markets became psychic and predicted a Republican president would automatically be good for the economy.

But...but...UNCERTAINTY!!1!

72 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:04:07pm

re: #67 Girth

When did we move Election Day to September?

To try to eliminate that liberal holiday called "Labor Day".
//

73 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:05:07pm

re: #71 Girth

But...but...UNCERTAINTY!!1!

The Romneybot 6000 thrives upon uncertainty due to its superior chameleon circuitry.

74 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:05:29pm

re: #70 jaunte

George Soros probably knows how not to break all the links in his websites.

Of course he does. They teach that in Being an Evil Genius Billionaire 101.

75 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:10:47pm

Apparently, we have some wingnuts ranting away about this video clip and Dorothy Brown, because she wrote something once that associated "white supremacism" with CRT, but in the video she says it had nothing to do with white supremacy or the KKK, etc.

I've come to know this wingnut tactic very well -- seize on an insignificant but related detail that's stated wrongly or can be distorted, then just keep obsessively yelling about that minor point and get as many flying monkeys as possible to do it too. Deflection is the goal.

Seen this one so much that I just stop engaging with anyone who pulls it on me; it's a mark of a dishonest arguer, and engaging it simply feeds the pathology.

76 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:13:29pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Seen this one so much that I just stop engaging with anyone who pulls it on me; it's a mark of a dishonest arguer, and engaging it simply feeds the pathology.

That's true. Engaging it feeds the perception that there is actually something worth engaging. Just makes it worse.

77 Kragar  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:14:27pm

Captain Obvious news update...

Born-again Christians, conservatives dominate GOP presidential voting in Alabama, Mississippi

What were the odds of that happening?!

78 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:14:58pm

re: #77 Kragar

Captain Obvious news update...

Born-again Christians, conservatives dominate GOP presidential voting in Alabama, Mississippi

What were the odds of that happening?!

No way.

79 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:17:05pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

It's about white 'supremacy' in terms of white's being privileged in political and economic power. It has nothing to do with the common usage of 'white supremacy'.

But of course, the people attacking it know this.

80 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:18:30pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

She should have elaborated on that. It wasn't PR-wise leaving that hanging in the air.

The way I see it, Pollak was formally correct about CRT having to do with the "white supremacy", but was dishonest in not explaining fully what he meant, because what is meant by "white supremacy" in CRT context is not some sort of KKK stuff but institutionalized forms of racism. So he just threw the term out there, knowing that it's ambiguous and hoping for low-brow reaction.

So in this narrow sense Brown was correct - CRT is not about the "white supremacy" as Pollak tried to paint it through ambiguity, it's not about KKK. But she shouldn't have left it there, simply denying the term's relation to the CRT, because, strictly speaking, it is related.

That's the problem with these soundbite media "debates" - too much nuance is lost on the audience.

81 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:18:36pm

re: #77 Kragar

Captain Obvious news update...

Born-again Christians, conservatives dominate GOP presidential voting in Alabama, Mississippi

What were the odds of that happening?!

This breaking news just in, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

82 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:22:39pm
Soledad O’Brien had a great followup yesterday on the subject of “Critical Race Theory,” calling on Emory University’s Dorothy Brown, who teaches the theory, to explain it in more detail. Along the way, the distorted nonsense still being hyped by the Breitbart.com gang was thoroughly destroyed.

Pfft. The only thing Dorothy Brown proved was that she's part of the conspiracy. She's black and she's a professor. Every good wingnut knows that makes her a radical leftist who wants to destroy Christian America™ and institute Sharia. Besides, she & O'Brien probably both only got to where they're at thanks to affirmative action, so there's little doubt that they both hate white people and are playing the race card. I wonder what Obama offered them and how much they're being paid by Soros... //

83 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:23:37pm

re: #80 Freeze Peach

I think the argument could be made that the usage of 'white supremacy' as related to the KKK is so prevalent that the alternate usage of it is so out of date as to be meaningless. It's like the way that 'plastic' has nearly entirely changed meaning, or that 'Counterfeit' used to mean an absolutely perfect copy, rather than something that could be actually differentiated from the original.

84 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:25:42pm

re: #80 Freeze Peach

I see your point, but there's no time on CNN to get into every detail like that. I'm just grateful they still have shows that do at least this much exploration of a complex topic. It's a lot better than nothing, and even if it were more detailed the wingnuts would still find something to harp about.

85 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:28:31pm

re: #83 Obdicut

The problem is that CRT proponents use it.

86 allegro  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:30:04pm

It seems to me the preferential phrase would be "white privilege" instead. It takes the conversation to the right place and avoids the connotations of the white supremacy thing.

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:30:23pm

re: #84 Charles Johnson

I'm not so much faulting her negatively, as in a "damn, that was easy to avoid" sort of way. She certainly was not lying.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:30:44pm

re: #86 allegro

Ayep.

89 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:33:44pm

re: #85 Freeze Peach

The problem is that CRT proponents use it.

And of course if you point out to someone the fact that academic terminology quite frequently has a different meaning from its common usage, well then you sir are an ELITIST!

90 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:33:50pm

Pollak said that "White supremacy is the heart of critical race theory, and Obama knew it."

The discussion needs to start there. This is very typical - as Charles explained. You throw out a baseless charge (White supremacy is the "heart of CRT"), and then argue something completely different later (whether or not white supremacy is, in any way, relevant to CRT).

91 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:34:27pm

re: #85 Freeze Peach

The problem is that CRT proponents use it.

Do you have a link?

92 jaunte  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:37:16pm

re: #77 Kragar

Captain Obvious news update...

Born-again Christians, conservatives dominate GOP presidential voting in Alabama, Mississippi

The Confused South:

When asked how important a role religion will be in the presidential race, Robinson didn't hesitate. "I think it should be the most important value to bring back our country the way it needs to be," she said.

Judy Sellers came to the forum with her young daughter. "Everybody in America needs to pray, and just do what God has you to do as far as voting in the election," said Sellers, a nurse who said she is frustrated by Obama's signature health care law.

Romney is a Mormon, an unfamiliar faith here. But his religion didn't come up among the dozen attendees I spoke with. Instead, for people like Judy Sellers, it was Obama's faith that was an issue.

"I really don't think that a nation that falls on Muslim leadership, potentially, is going to be a nation that's going to survive," she said.
[Link: www.npr.org...]

93 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:37:54pm

re: #91 Talking Point Detective

[Link: spacrs.wordpress.com...]

CRT identifies that these power structures are based on white privilege and white supremacy, which perpetuates the marginalization of people of color.

This is right from wiki.

Google Books will give you academic books, like [Link: books.google.ru...]

94 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:41:49pm

re: #91 Talking Point Detective

Also: [Link: www.google.ru...]

95 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:45:00pm

re: #93 Freeze Peach

[Link: spacrs.wordpress.com...]

This is right from wiki.

Google Books will give you academic books, like [Link: books.google.ru...]

Thanks:

So let's look at more context:

Intersectionality within CRT points to the multidimensionality of oppressions and recognizes that race alone cannot account for disempowerment. “Intersectionality means the examination of race, sex, class, national origin, and sexual orientation, and how their combination plays out in various settings.”[1] This is an important tenet in pointing out that CRT is critical of the many oppressions facing people of color and does not allow for a one–dimensional approach of the complexities of our world.
[...]

Narratives or counterstories, as mentioned before, contribute to the centrality of the experiences of people of color. These stories challenge the story of white supremacy and continue to give a voice to those that have been silenced by white supremacy.

So in that last paragraph, it mentions how narratives can combat white supremacy. I think that context is pretty important. No one expects to combat the KKK by telling stories. The point is that narratives help explode the myth that somehow whites are superior. This is relevant to the different meanings of "white supremacy."

96 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:46:05pm

re: #93 Freeze Peach

Heh. It's about 'white supremacy', not 'white supremacy'.

Language is fun.

Except when assholes use confusion to try to score cheap points and racemonger, that is.

Actually, I'd say it's still a false statement to say CRT is about white supremacy, even in the academic sense. It's not 'about' it.

CRT has, as one of its assumptions, that white supremacy is one of the things that created the political and economic structure in the US, and that large amounts of that structure still remain, and pretending to be colorblind isn't going to move us past that, it'll actually enable it.

97 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:46:26pm

re: #95 Talking Point Detective

And this part:

Intersectionality within CRT points to the multidimensionality of oppressions and recognizes that race alone cannot account for disempowerment. “Intersectionality means the examination of race, sex, class, national origin, and sexual orientation, and how their combination plays out in various settings.”

Goes to refute Pollak's statement that "White Suprmacy" is the heart of CRT.

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:46:26pm

re: #95 Talking Point Detective

Yeah, well, it has already been explained above in #79 and #80.

99 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:49:39pm

re: #93 Freeze Peach

[Link: spacrs.wordpress.com...]

This is right from wiki.

Google Books will give you academic books, like [Link: books.google.ru...]

I think there's a difference between recognizing the fact of supremacy of whites in the power structure of the US, and advocating that this is the way things should be, or even claiming supremacy in the first sense of these two definitions:

supremacy (sʊ-prĕm'ə-sē) pronunciation
n., pl., -cies.

1. The quality or condition of being supreme.
2. Supreme power or authority.

So even if the same language is used, the same meaning does not necessarily apply.

Of course, that discussion is not even possible with propagandists.

And I realize this is redundant after some of the comments above.

100 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:50:21pm

re: #98 Freeze Peach

Yeah, well, it has already been explained above in #79 and #80.

Sure - although I'm not sure I agree that Pollak was "formally correct." IMO, in a formal sense, the context is inextricable from the terminology. That doesn't change, however, the likelihood of those interested in proving Obama's racism from making their bogus arguments. The point is, however, they will make those arguments no matter what anyone says in response.

101 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:50:28pm

Looking at the story about the Belgian Mosque, I think the Security Branches in the West now need to monitor the extremists, especially Salafis, for possible intimidation attacks on Muslims in the West.

102 allegro  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:50:31pm

OT: This bit of hilarity is from the Facebook comments of Sen. Ryan McDougle who was a leader in the Virginia transvaginal rape law. Here are some samples of posts from both women and men:

*"Quick question for you-is it normal for my period to sync up with other female-bodied people? After doing the Vagina Monologues with 12 others, I got my period sooner! Gosh, ladybits are just so weird and confusing-but I don't have to worry about stuff like that now that you're looking out for me! ...And my vagina. And cervix. And uterus. And ovaries. Thanks for keeping my pretty little head from even having to think about 'down there', Senator Garrett!"

*"Hey, since you’re so interested in my health, I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been really horny lately because I’m ovulating. But don’t worry; I won’t engage in dangerous heterosexual sex that could result in a pregnancy. This is because I’m a really fat and hairy Lesbian and I plan on having sex with women for the rest of my life, the really butchy dykey kind. The current object of my affections, and central character in the majority of the sexual fantasies at the moment, is Alison Bechdel (pictured below). Thanks for showing me the light in regards to my own sexual health, in affirming that having sex with men in more trouble than it’s worth. The fact that women are sexier anyway, it just a happy coincidence."

*"Hello Senator. My daughter is still young, but will one day be a woman, and before I know it she'll be having her 'curse,' if ya know what I mean... it's not easy for kids, especially females, to have to deal with this fact of life. I don't raise my kids to be Christian, even though some of my best friends are, and they have family in Thailand, so essentially they're half Buddhist. My question to you is, is religion aside, what should she expect from a government here in the U.S. that wants to probe her vagina? How do I explain to her the whole 'good touch, bad touch' thing when politicians think it's acceptable to explore vaginas with plastic instruments? Also, is this part of a plan to create jobs somehow?"

This is some very funny stuff and the mocking is so totally deserved.

103 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:52:24pm

re: #102 allegro

This is some very funny stuff and the mocking is so totally deserved.

Yes and yes!

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:52:46pm

re: #97 Talking Point Detective

When a scholarly summary of numerous works on CRT says that there is not much of a consensus on details among the authors, but finds a consensus in that the CRT asks us to consider "how a regime of white supremacy and its subordination of people of color have been created and maintained in America", then the statement that white supremacy is at the heart of CRT is not prima facie false. However, in the context if which it was made it was certainly misleading.

105 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:52:53pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Heh. It's about 'white supremacy', not 'white supremacy'.

Language is fun.

Except when assholes use confusion to try to score cheap points and racemonger, that is.

Actually, I'd say it's still a false statement to say CRT is about white supremacy, even in the academic sense. It's not 'about' it.

CRT has, as one of its assumptions, that white supremacy is one of the things that created the political and economic structure in the US, and that large amounts of that structure still remain, and pretending to be colorblind isn't going to move us past that, it'll actually enable it.

We can clearly see how, with the way that the right has co-opted King's rhetoric about colorblindess, in fact CRT was pretty damned prescient.

106 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:53:03pm

re: #101 ProGunLiberal

Looking at the story about the Belgian Mosque, I think the Security Branches in the West now need to monitor the extremists, especially Salafis, for possible intimidation attacks on Muslims in the West.

They are keeping an eye on this kind of thing. These extremists are a problem for everybody.

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:53:14pm

re: #99 wrenchwench

#79, #80.

108 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:54:28pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

True, but the sort of event that just occurred in Belgium seems to be a bit out of average range.

109 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:54:35pm

re: #107 Freeze Peach

#98.

110 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:54:51pm

Shocker!
NYPD surveillance of Muslims appears popular, legal

The Quinnipiac University poll, released on Tuesday, found respondents approved by 63 percent to 31 the way New York police are doing their job and said by 82 percent to 14 percent the NYPD has been effective combating terrorism.

The poll of 964 New York City voters showed Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly won better than 2-to-1 approval ratings and voters said police act appropriately in how they deal with Muslims by a margin of 58 percent to 29 percent.
....
Legal experts say any court challenge based on claims of racial or religious profiling would face high hurdles. Instead, they say, any successful case would likely come down to a single paragraph in a longstanding court order that governs the department's surveillance of political activity. The paragraph, part of the "Handschu guidelines," sets conditions for NYPD officers who visit public places or events during anti-terrorism investigations. It prohibits them from keeping records of their observations unless the information is related to "potential unlawful activity" - a ban that critics say the NYPD has ignored.

111 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:56:23pm

re: #107 Freeze Peach

BTW, what does 'Freeze Peach' refer to, if anything?

112 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:57:47pm

re: #111 wrenchwench

BTW, what does 'Freeze Peach' refer to, if anything?

Just a nom de plume./

Free speech.

113 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:58:02pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

The public being well-known experts on the best ways to combat terrorism.

Also, not sure how that headline matches up with this bit:

It prohibits them from keeping records of their observations unless the information is related to "potential unlawful activity" - a ban that critics say the NYPD has ignored.

They completely violated that.

114 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:59:00pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

All this is doing is hurting any chance of cooperation between the Police and the Muslim Community. The police are basically telling Muslims "We suspect all of you of Terrorism, and for that, we will violate your right to privacy."

This will only serve to create a situation like in Europe. And you know exactly what I mean.

Also, you are falling for the "Appeal to Majority" fallacy.

115 jaunte  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 3:59:31pm

re: #113 Obdicut

The headline was actually
"NYPD surveillance of Muslims popular, but is it legal?"

116 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:00:01pm

re: #114 ProGunLiberal

The best resources for combating Islamic extremism are moderate Muslims giving information to the police and other law enforcement. Treating every Muslim like a suspect is the exact wrong way to go about encouraging that.

117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:00:24pm

re: #115 jaunte

The headline was actually
"NYPD surveillance of Muslims popular, but is it legal?"

Ha!

118 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:01:15pm

re: #114 ProGunLiberal

All this is doing is hurting any chance of cooperation between the Police and the Muslim Community. The police are basically telling Muslims "We suspect all of you of Terrorism, and for that, we will violate your right to privacy."

This will only serve to create a situation like in Europe. And you know exactly what I mean.

Also, you are falling for the "Appeal to Majority" fallacy.

Stop-and-Frisk policies have a similarly negative impact in community/police public relations; although they, also, are popular among the segments of the population that aren't being targeted.

119 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:01:51pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Did you just figure that nobody would bother to read the article and the change you made to the headline would go unnoticed, or are you just not getting enough negative attention and you need more?

120 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:02:32pm

re: #112 Freeze Peach

Just a nom de plume./

Free speech.

You cobblered together some nice puns, there.

121 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:02:38pm

re: #116 Obdicut

I like to think of myself as a Moderate Muslim. That I am being a help.

There is another issue with this too. They are going way outside of their spatial jurisdiction in investigating. From Boston to Philadelphia.

And you nailed the point otherwise.

122 Girth  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:02:38pm

re: #115 jaunte

The headline was actually
"NYPD surveillance of Muslims popular, but is it legal?"

Weak sauce. That's the kind of selective editing I would expect from someone like Buck.

123 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:03:57pm

re: #119 Obdicut

Did you just figure that nobody would bother to read the article and the change you made to the headline would go unnoticed, or are you just not getting enough negative attention and you need more?

Just weird.

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:04:15pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

You cobblered together some nice puns, there.

Thanks! You're always an apple of my eye. ;)

125 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:04:23pm

re: #121 ProGunLiberal

I like to think of myself as a Moderate Muslim. That I am being a help.

There is another issue with this too. They are going way outside of their spatial jurisdiction in investigating. From Boston to Philadelphia.

You'll have to change your nic again. "ProGunModerate"

126 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:05:45pm

re: #124 Freeze Peach

Thanks! You're always an apple of my eye. ;)

It's a fruitful relationship.

127 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:06:39pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

Moderate Muslim.

Social Democrat politically. Which means (aside from views on Terrorism), I am fairly far left here.

On Terrorism, I take the same position as Mahmud II. That position is way off to the right.

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:06:54pm

re: #126 wrenchwench

It's a fruitful relationship.

Yep. Unlike those stalker nuts and their sour grapes.

129 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:06:59pm

re: #126 wrenchwench

It's a fruitful relationship.

Not sure if that pun was picking the long hanging fruit or scraping the bottom of the (peach) barrel.

130 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:07:24pm

re: #128 Freeze Peach

I actually like sour grapes.

131 allegro  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:08:48pm

re: #130 Obdicut

I actually like sour grapes.

They're great with whine.

132 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:09:29pm

re: #131 allegro

They're great with whine.

Especially if you gin up some outrage.

133 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:09:56pm

re: #131 allegro

It sounds like we are fermenting a pun thread.

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:10:12pm

re: #133 ProGunLiberal

It sounds like we are fermenting a pun thread.

There's a grain of truth in that.

135 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:11:10pm

re: #134 Freeze Peach

There's a grain of truth in that.

You guys had your oats today. It's all very well being rye, but we're barley getting started here.

136 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:13:40pm

re: #135 Obdicut

You guys had your oats today. It's all very well being rye, but we're barley getting started here.

Well, then get started. Just don't go bananas. After all you live in a free country, not a banana republic.

137 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:13:47pm

re: #92 jaunte

The Confused South:

I heard that this am on the ride to work. One guy said it was in the constitution that both parents of a prez must be born in the US.

Saddest derp ever.

138 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:13:52pm

re: #135 Obdicut

You guys had your oats today. It's all very well being rye, but we're barley getting started here.

Back to the bikes. Gotta earn my bread.

139 The Yankee  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:15:00pm

re: #127 ProGunLiberal

Moderate Muslim.

.

You are a muslim?

140 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:15:31pm

re: #115 jaunte

The headline was actually
"NYPD surveillance of Muslims popular, but is it legal?"

Hah. Nice catch! They changed the headline after I opened the article about an hour ago.

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:16:34pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

Heh.

142 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:16:46pm

re: #116 Obdicut

The best resources for combating Islamic extremism are moderate Muslims giving information to the police and other law enforcement. Treating every Muslim like a suspect is the exact wrong way to go about encouraging that.

Creating the false impression that the police are doing that is very unhelpful.

143 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:17:06pm

re: #112 Freeze Peach

Just a nom de plume./

Free speech.

I thought it was a new Ben & Jerry flavor.

144 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:17:26pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

I apologize.

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

But man, the way you've been trolling, that was easy to believe you'd changed it.

Did you read the article in the first place, though?

145 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:17:45pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Creating the false impression that the police are doing that is very unhelpful.

Don't you mean it's enriching our society?

146 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:20:38pm

re: #139 The Yankee

Yes. I converted last year.

I have a serious bone to pick with a certain community or two for a number reasons.

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:21:27pm

re: #146 ProGunLiberal

If I'm not prying, did you belong to any religion before that?

148 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:23:10pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

I completely stand by that statement, by the way. By going to Muslim neighborhoods, mosques, businesses, keeping notes on the people there and their associations with each other, tracking personal behavior like religious observance, they're treating all Muslims like suspects.

In what way do you see it as not treating them as suspects?

149 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:24:34pm

re: #147 Freeze Peach

Protestant Christian. Right before conversion, I was going to a Southern Baptist Church. It was a nice place. Then it turned nasty, which caused a complete review of my beliefs and revived an issue I had had with the Trinity earlier, in High School.

After talking to a pastor and an Imam, I thought about it for a little while more, then converted.

150 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:27:21pm

I was just taking a look at the FBI's available murder statistics for the U.S.:

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter

2001 - 16,037*
2002 - 16,229
2003 - 16,528
2004 - 16,148
2005 - 16,740
2006 - 17,309
2007 - 17,128
2008 - 16,465
2009 - 15,399
2010 - 14,748

Seems to me most Americans should be far more concerned about being killed by their fellow countrymen in non-terrorist related acts of violence. It's mostly Muslims overseas who get killed by suicide bombers.

Suicide Bombs In Iraq Caused 200 Coalition Soldier And 12,000 Civilian Casualties From 2003-10:

In Iraq, two data sets recorded suicide bomb casualties from March 20, 2003 to December 31, 2010, and examined and compared by investigators. One set documented coalition-soldier deaths from suicide bombs and the other documented deaths and injuries of Iraqi civilians caused by armed violence. 19% (42,928 of 225,789) of overall civilian casualties were caused by documented suicide bomb events, 26% (30,644 of 117,165) of injured civilians, and 11% (12,284 of 108,624) deaths.

For civilians the injured-to-killed ratio was 2-5 individuals injured to one person killed from suicide bombs. 43% of recorded suicide bomb deaths were caused by suicide bombers on foot, suicide bombers using cars cause 36% of documented deaths and 40% of civilian injuries.

75% of the 3,963 identifiable suicide bomb fatalities were men, 11% women, and 14% children. Children made up for a higher ratio of demographically identifiable deaths caused by suicide bombings compared to general armed violence (9%). For women the injured-to-killed ratio for all suicide bombings was a little higher than for men, however, for children the ratio was lower than for both women and men, revealing lower survival of children from suicide bombings.

Pakistan & Afghanistan:

Pakistan saw 3,021 deaths in terrorist attacks in in 2009, up 48% on the year before, according to a new report by the Pakistan Institute for Peace Studies (PIPS), an Islamabad-based defence thinktank. Researchers counted a total of 12,600 violent deaths across the country in 2009, 14 times more than in 2006.

At least half of the dead were militants who were killed in US drone strikes or, mostly, sweeping army offensives against their mountain strongholds of Swat and South Waziristan along the Afghan border. Another 2,000 or so Pakistanis died in bloodshed unrelated to militancy: political clashes, tribal feuds and border skirmishes.

In comparison just over 2,000 civilians were killed in war-torn Afghanistan during the first ten months of 2009, according to the UN. In Iraq 4,500 civilians were killed during the year, said Iraq Body Count, an independent monitoring organisation.

*The murder and nonnegligent homicides that occurred as a result of the events of September 11, 2001, are not included in this table.

151 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:28:23pm

re: #150 CuriousLurker

Although, it is a good thing the number of murders in the US has slipped recently.

152 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:31:16pm

re: #150 CuriousLurker

It's apples and oranges comparison. You could do the same thing with traffic accidents or smoking related deaths too but they are very different. Terrorism isn't just about lives and death tolls.

153 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:31:47pm

re: #151 ProGunLiberal

Although, it is a good thing the number of murders in the US has slipped recently.

Yeah, if this table is correct, then the murder rates for 2010 were the lowest they'd been in 40 years.

154 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:33:33pm

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Except that law enforcement doesn't investigate smoking deaths, but they do investigate homicides.

So, at most, it's comparing red apples with green apples.

155 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:35:41pm

re: #152 Killgore Trout

It's apples and oranges comparison. You could do the same thing with traffic accidents or smoking related deaths too but they are very different. Terrorism isn't just about lives and death tolls.

Terrorism is about terror. It's about mind-fucking people. It's about making them fear out of proportion to the actual threat.

That said, a guy who gets shot in a bar, or college kids that get blown away by some asshole that goes apeshit aren't any more or less dead than people who die in terrorist attacks.

156 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:45:32pm
Definitions of Terrorism

Terrorism by nature is difficult to define. Acts of terrorism conjure emotional responses in the victims (those hurt by the violence and those affected by the fear) as well as in the practitioners. Even the U.S. government cannot agree on one single definition. The old adage, “One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter” is still alive and well. Listed below are several definitions of terrorism. For the purposes of the Terrorism Research Center, we have adopted the definition used by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

[...]

More at the Jewish Virtual Library...

Like I said, it's a mind-fuck (and they appear to be winning).

157 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 4:52:32pm

re: #154 Obdicut

Except that law enforcement doesn't investigate smoking deaths, but they do investigate homicides.

So, at most, it's comparing red apples with green apples.

That's like comparing adjectives and nouns.
;)

158 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 5:21:54pm
159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 5:24:06pm

re: #158 porkopolis

LOL, Pathetico.

160 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 5:24:14pm

re: #158 porkopolis

Oooh, by a lawyer?

The point is not whether or not CRT says white supremacy needs to be fought, it's about the common meaning of white supremacy vs. the academic.

I mean, in a way, you're making Pollak look even worse; you're saying he's angry because Bell wanted white supremacy to be fought against?

161 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 5:24:15pm

Saw that one coming.

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 13, 2012 5:28:23pm

Oh, and to the banned pork, if (s)he is still reading. Obviously the point is not that Pollak claimed that CRT *supports* white supremacy. Duuuh. Of course Breitbots don't accuse "black radicals" of supporting white supremacy.

The misrepresentation is that CRT proponents were basically pictured as supporting a view of American society as one big KKK rally, which is just not the case.

163 budda10000  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 1:45:57pm

Some elements of Critical Race theory do involve the issue of "whiteness" being a social currency giving you an inherent advantage in a system made by whites for whites. In a way it is about white supremacy because the whole system is predicated on the idea that white civilization and white cultural norms is the correct one and any deviance from that is sub-standard. In other word one need not be a blatant white supremacist but simply think it in you subconsciousness(i.e. the unintentional racist). Tim Wise makes a living going from campus to campus making young white kids feel guilty using ideas he ripped from Max Weber and other scholars of color based on this very logic. CNN can invite all the "experts" they want but there is a branch of critical race theory that thinks this way and it is very cozy with and often sited in the neo-marxist brand of thought.(try reading some of their literature) College campuses are hotbeds of radical politics that never see the light of day in the mainstream and do not represent the mainstream. CPUSA makes regular appearances at my college but it doesn't mean that every kid in the area is a Stalinist. Try siting non-US new sources for a change and you might get some fresh insight people.... CNN and FOX are for the lesser in intelligence.


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