AZ GOP Bill Forces Women to Prove They’re Not Having the Sex

“When sluts need shaming, the Republican Party is your man”
Wingnuts • Views: 32,281

Just when you think the right wing can’t possibly get any more reactionary and misogynistic, the Arizona Senate GOP pushes a bill allowing employers to demand that a woman prove she isn’t using contraception just because she wants to have the sex — and deny coverage if the employer judges her to be a round-heeled slattern.

And these Neanderthal throwbacks are whining about “federal interference” and calling this “religious freedom.” Freaking unbelievable.

The Senate Judiciary Committee voted 6-2 Monday to endorse a controversial bill that would allow Arizona employers the right to deny health insurance coverage for contraceptives based on religious objections.

Arizona House Bill 2625, authored by Majority Whip Debbie Lesko, R-Glendale, would permit employers to ask their employees for proof of medical prescription if they seek contraceptives for non-reproductive purposes, such as hormone control or acne treatment.

“I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the �Soviet Union,” Lesko said. “So, government should not be telling the organizations or mom and pop employers to do something against their moral beliefs.”

Lesko said this bill responds to a contraceptive mandate in the federal Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act signed into law March 2010.

“My whole legislation is about our First Amendment rights and freedom of religion,” Lesko said. “All my bill does is that an employer can opt out of the mandate if they have any religious objections.”

Jump to bottom

154 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:40:29am

What is this.... I don't even.....

2 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:40:35am

What fucking business is it of theirs?

3 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:41:18am
“I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the Soviet Union,” Lesko said. “So, government should not be telling the organizations or mom and pop employers to do something against their moral beliefs.”

No. we live in America, where corporations are people, and get to tell employees how to run their personal lives.

4 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:41:45am

Doctor patient confidentiality? Whats that?

5 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:42:06am

People need to stop voting in these clowns and stop believing they favor small government. Newsflash they don't and never have.

6 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:42:35am

re: #4 Kragar

Gd sees all and knows all - and the GOP is Gd's representation on Earth.

7 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:43:16am

Its the new smaller government the GOP has promised, able to fit into every corner of your life more efficiently.

8 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:43:26am

Cue the doctors suddenly deciding to see more "acne."

9 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:44:32am

re: #7 Kragar

Its the new smaller government the GOP has promised, able to fit into every corner of your life more efficiently.

Small enough to fit in a woman's uterus.

10 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:44:38am

re: #8 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Cue the doctors suddenly deciding to see more "acne."

In Arizona? At least some of the doctors are voting for these imbeciles. Remember - the Luaps are doctors.

11 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:44:44am

re: #3 Phlebas

No. we live in America, where corporations are people, and get to tell employees how to run their personal lives.

That's the conclusion that I came to last night, that the GOP seems to believe that "freedom" is something that only corporations are allowed to exercise, and only for the purposes of controlling their employees in a manner not seen since the Gilded Age.

12 JeffM70  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:44:52am

. . .

that's about all I have for a response to this madness.

13 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:45:41am

re: #12 JeffM70

. . .

that's about all I got for a response to this madness.

Stop the country I want to get off!

14 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:45:50am

re: #8 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Cue the doctors suddenly deciding to see more "acne."

With the AMA conveniently nowhere to be found. Probably because they're stuck in the same year of the 1950s as the Vatican.

15 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:45:59am

Geez. The GOP still does not get it. I want them to get out of my bedroom and my house. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.

16 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:46:14am
“I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the Soviet Union,”

Right, because having your employer empowered to demand information about your sex life and make your employment contingent upon it doesn't remotely resemble fucked-up bureaucratic totalitarianism.

edit: I am apparently insane.

17 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:47:08am

re: #11 Targetpractice

It's astonishing to think that there is an entire political party dedicated to disenfranchising employees, the poor, the middle class, women and minorities. They are successfully selling a vision of America that brings us back to the time of the Industrial Revolution.

18 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:48:49am

re: #17 Phlebas

It's astonishing to think that there is an entire political party dedicated to disenfranchising employees, the poor, the middle class, women and minorities. They are successfully selling a vision of America that brings us back to the time of the Industrial Revolution.

If you can think of a major accomplishment in the labor movement, the GOP has probably declared it one of the reasons for the "downfall of society." The Pill being one of the big ones, as it allowed women to make huge strides in the work place without worrying that an ill-timed pregnancy would see them chained to a stove for the rest of their lives.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:49:32am

Duh, there is no more Soviet Union...

20 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:50:11am

re: #17 Phlebas

It's astonishing to think that there is an entire political party dedicated to disenfranchising employees, the poor, the middle class, women and minorities. They are successfully selling a vision of America that brings us back to the time of the Industrial Revolution.

Nice of you to page a link to the week's Doonesbury cartoons. No punches pulled there, and unfortunately all too accurate an assessment of the recent wave of legislation.

21 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:50:36am

I'd close my business, lock the doors, and move into the tool shed on my farm before I would ask a female employee about her sex life, let alone demand documentation from her doctor. I can't imagine anything more humiliating or invasive.

22 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:51:20am

re: #21 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

I'd close my business, lock the doors, and move into the tool shed on my farm before I would ask a female employee about her sex life, let alone demand documentation from her doctor. I can't imagine anything more humiliating or invasive.

The legislation requiring you to do so is on deck I'm sure.

23 allegro  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:51:34am

I'm quite pleased that they feel they no longer feel the need to filter what they say and do so everyone can see exactly where these fucktards are coming from. A lot of us have known about the anti-contraceptive agenda for some years but it was hard to convince others less involved in the pro-choice movement because it's so unthinkable and... insane.

This is excellent. Now, hopefully the bright light now shining on these bugs will help to eradicate them from public office.

24 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:52:14am

re: #20 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

No problem; I assume there are no copyright issues, since some of them are not even published yet....

25 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:53:04am

Few observations here: Interesting issue of preemption (federalism) comes into play. The feds set the rule, and the state is trying to override it. I think the feds win out (on Art I, Sec. 8 (clauses 1 and 18)) grounds since we're talking about the general welfare.

Moreover, this would be an invasion of privacy and gender discrimination at that. It's specifically targeting women and men would be under no such similar restriction (say a male contraceptive comes on the market).

The misogyny is strong with this bill.

26 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:53:09am

Um, at what fucking point did employers start getting invoices of their employees' insurance-covered treatments in the first place?

How the fuck did you know your employees are using contraception in the first place, Debbie?

27 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:53:48am

re: #21 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

I'd close my business, lock the doors, and move into the tool shed on my farm before I would ask a female employee about her sex life, let alone demand documentation from her doctor. I can't imagine anything more humiliating or invasive.

The only time I've had any knowledge of this was when an employee announced she was pregnant. I congratulated her, started planning for her absence, and called my daughter for advice on baby gifts.

28 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:54:57am

re: #18 Targetpractice

If you can think of a major accomplishment in the labor movement, the GOP has probably declared it one of the reasons for the "downfall of society." The Pill being one of the big ones, as it allowed women to make huge strides in the work place without worrying that an ill-timed pregnancy would see them chained to a stove for the rest of their lives.

I'm still waiting for them to start attacking weekends... its bound to come sooner or later.

29 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:55:43am

re: #27 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator
That and gift cards are a good idea.

30 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:56:02am

re: #28 jamesfirecat

I'm still waiting for them to start attacking weekends... its bound to come sooner or later.

Idle hands are the Devil's tools, after all.

/

31 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:56:36am

re: #28 jamesfirecat

I'm still waiting for them to start attacking weekends... its bound to come sooner or later.

Won't happen, because that would rile up the Christians. No, they'll simply do away with overtime laws and start working people on Saturdays.

32 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:56:46am

re: #26 erik_t

HIPAA would specifically limit the kinds of information that could be shared with employers. Employers are noncovered entities, but insurers, doctors, hospitals are. For instance, health information cannot be used or shared without your written permission unless this law allows it. For example, without your authorization, your provider generally cannot: Give your information to your employer; Use or share your information for marketing or advertising purposes; or Share private notes about your health care.

33 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:57:09am

re: #25 lawhawk

The misogyny is strong with this bill.

And with the people proposing it and supporting it. WTF.

34 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:57:30am

re: #31 Targetpractice

Won't happen, because that would rile up the Christians. No, they'll simply do away with overtime laws and start working people on Saturdays.

Mitt Romney thinks you should just shop around for an employer that doesn't make you work weekends.

35 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:58:50am

re: #34 erik_t

Mitt Romney thinks you should just shop around for an employer that doesn't make you work weekends.

That's because Mitt hasn't had to do any heavier lifting than a stack of documents from desk A to desk B.

36 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:59:19am

re: #32 lawhawk

HIPAA would specifically limit the kinds of information that could be shared with employers. Employers are noncovered entities, but insurers, doctors, hospitals are. For instance, health information cannot be used or shared without your written permission unless this law allows it. For example, without your authorization, your provider generally cannot: Give your information to your employer; Use or share your information for marketing or advertising purposes; or Share private notes about your health care.

And this is why we need to shrink that damned meddlesome federal government. States Rights, y'all!

/

37 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:59:29am

Notice how, for a lot of these slut-shaming bills, the GOP puts a token woman out in front as the mouthpiece.

38 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:59:50am

re: #32 lawhawk

HIPAA would specifically limit the kinds of information that could be shared with employers. Employers are noncovered entities, but insurers, doctors, hospitals are. For instance, health information cannot be used or shared without your written permission unless this law allows it. For example, without your authorization, your provider generally cannot: Give your information to your employer; Use or share your information for marketing or advertising purposes; or Share private notes about your health care.

I wonder if a similar situation could arise as with providing a social security number on a job application. The potential employer cannot force you to provide it, but they can simply refuse you employment if you don't (distinct from terminating you if you don't). Employers can simply provide a HIPAA waiver as a condition for a job application. Same as, for instance, a waiver for conducting background checks.

39 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:00:28pm

re: #35 Targetpractice

He has people for the stacks. He handles signature pages only.

40 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:01:00pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

Notice how, for a lot of these slut-shaming bills, the GOP puts a token woman out in front as the mouthpiece.

That's the one thing that's always truly boggled my mind, that there are women in the legislatures where these bills crop up from that are willing to sign on. The cognitive dissonance necessary not to realize that your career would be over if everybody around you had a say in the matter is just astounding.

41 iossarian  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:02:09pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

That's the one thing that's always truly boggled my mind, that there are women in the legislatures where these bills crop up from that are willing to sign on. The cognitive dissonance necessary not to realize that your career would be over if everybody around you had a say in the matter is just astounding.

This. Don't these women realize that 100 years ago, these same guys were fighting to prevent them from voting? Do they not understand that simple fact?

42 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:03:33pm

re: #41 iossarian

This. Don't these women realize that 100 years ago, these same guys were fighting to prevent them from voting? Do they not understand that simple fact?

They don't care. Some women can also be misogynist. See Phyllis Schlafly and the anti-ERA, anti-feminist contingent.

43 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:04:00pm

re: #38 Phlebas

I wonder if a similar situation could arise as with providing a social security number on a job application. The potential employer cannot force you to provide it, but they can simply refuse you employment if you don't (distinct from terminating you if you don't). Employers can simply provide a HIPAA waiver as a condition for a job application. Same as, for instance, a waiver for conducting background checks.

More than likely, with the argument that "Employers need this information to protect their employees!" or similar bullshit.

44 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:04:21pm

re: #41 iossarian

This. Don't these women realize that 100 years ago, these same guys were fighting to prevent them from voting? Do they not understand that simple fact?

They don't care. These particular women would vote for a bill negating women's right to vote. As deeply conservative Evangelicals, (and Catholics) they believe in a patriarchal society. It's not that they are blind to what is going on - they actively support the objectives.

45 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:04:49pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

That's the one thing that's always truly boggled my mind, that there are women in the legislatures where these bills crop up from that are willing to sign on. The cognitive dissonance necessary not to realize that your career would be over if everybody around you had a say in the matter is just astounding.

Me too, but who said having two X chromosomes is a guarantee of sanity?

46 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:05:06pm

re: #38 Phlebas

I wonder if a similar situation could arise as with providing a social security number on a job application. The potential employer cannot force you to provide it, but they can simply refuse you employment if you don't (distinct from terminating you if you don't). Employers can simply provide a HIPAA waiver as a condition for a job application. Same as, for instance, a waiver for conducting background checks.

Seems pretty unlikely. The list of limitations to the At-Will Doctrine is not a short one.

47 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:06:00pm

re: #44 Phlebas

They don't care. These particular women would vote for a bill negating women's right to vote. As deeply conservative Evangelicals, (and Catholics) they believe in a patriarchal society. It's not that they are blind to what is going on - they actively support the objectives.

See also: Bachmann, Michele.

48 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:06:26pm

re: #46 erik_t

True for termination. But as a condition to accepting a job application, or even a tacit filter that is not discriminatory against a protected class, the situation is different.

49 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:09:24pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Won't happen, because that would rile up the Christians. No, they'll simply do away with overtime laws and start working people on Saturdays.

About the time they drop the whole Judeo- fig leaf I presume?

50 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:09:38pm

OT: I just posted a page on four people who where stabbed in an office in downtown Columbus Ohio. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

51 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:09:59pm

So, will they ban condoms next because anyone getting those will be trying to have sex without procreation taking place?

52 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:10:09pm

re: #48 Phlebas

True for termination. But as a condition to accepting a job application, or even a tacit filter that is not discriminatory against a protected class, the situation is different.

Many of these limitations quite explicitly refer to hiring as well as termination. I can't claim to have read the full text of each one.

53 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:10:35pm

re: #48 Phlebas

Civil Rights Act of 1964
Title VII prohibits discrimination in compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

54 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:10:42pm

re: #51 Kragar

So, will they ban condoms next because anyone getting those will be trying to have sex without procreation taking place?

Of course not. Men use condoms. That makes them okay.

55 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:10:54pm

re: #39 Phlebas

He has people for the stacks. He handles signature pages only.

The Romneybot 6000 has a built-in electronic signature and parallel multi-signing capability.

56 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:11:55pm

re: #53 lawhawk
Now someone has to remind the GOP of this law.

57 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:13:29pm

re: #54 Lidane

Of course not. Men use condoms. That makes them okay.

They'll need to provide evidence they aren't using them for homosexual activity though.

58 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:14:50pm

re: #57 Kragar

They'll need to provide evidence they aren't using them for homosexual activity though.

Built-in RFID tags and web-cams to be monitored by a state agency in order to prevent mis-use of course.
///

59 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:15:10pm

re: #57 Kragar

They'll need to provide evidence they aren't using them for homosexual activity though.

Pfft. Any man caught using them for homosexual activity can just claim they were manipulated by a rent boy carrying their luggage, or by a wide stance.

60 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:15:15pm

re: #54 Lidane

Of course not. Men use condoms. That makes them okay.

Ayep. It's a bit like suggesting that Viagra only be prescribed to men capable looking to reproduce, it ain't gonna happen. Only men are supposed to be allowed to enjoy sex, so sayeth God...somewhere.//

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:15:15pm
“I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the Soviet Union,” Lesko said. “So, government should not be telling the organizations or mom and pop employers to do something against their moral beliefs.”

Dafuq?

62 iossarian  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:15:18pm

re: #44 Phlebas

They don't care. These particular women would vote for a bill negating women's right to vote. As deeply conservative Evangelicals, (and Catholics) they believe in a patriarchal society. It's not that they are blind to what is going on - they actively support the objectives.

See, I don't think this is true - I mean, there may be some women who would vote to ban women from voting, but I think that's a much smaller proportion than those who turn a blind eye to all the current legislation that leads in that direction.

So what I'm saying is, I think there's a lot of more-or-less willful blindness to the Republican endgame vis-a-vis women's rights.

Anyway, can't stick around and discuss it today unfortunately. Great evenings all round, etc.

63 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:15:24pm

re: #53 lawhawk

Arguably does not apply to issues of at-will employment in a right to work state where the issue is framed as the willingness to allow a full background check. I think personal, medical information will have to be specifically exempted by Federal statute. Lots of legislative burden rolling towards Congress on these issues.

64 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:16:11pm

re: #61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Dafuq?

These people still haven't grasped that the Cold War ended decades ago, the Soviet Union no longer exists, and they lost the culture wars around the same time.

65 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:16:43pm

re: #61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Dafuq?

Apparently we're different from the Soviet Union, because instead of having the government order businesses around, it's the businesses bossing the government around. Just as the Founding Fathers intended...I think.

//

66 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:17:11pm

Please remember, excessive regulations are burdensome to business, except when they're used to drive a strict moral agenda.

67 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:17:18pm
68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:17:30pm

Now, now, let's not insult the Neanderthals.

69 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:18:16pm

re: #67 Lidane

Disgusting.

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:18:17pm

re: #68 Freeze Peach

You do Freetoken proud.

71 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:18:21pm

re: #68 Freeze Peach
lol

72 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:19:26pm

re: #70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Speaking of which, where is he?

73 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:19:54pm

re: #61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Dafuq?

Given how the Soviet Union lacked the proper sex ed and oral contraceptives were in deficit, the GOP pretty much wishes the US to mimic USSR in this respect. Moreover, not just USSR, but Stalin's USSR, when abortion and male homosexuality were outlawed.

74 JeffM70  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:20:38pm

This clearly indicates global warming isn't caused by men but by liberal sluts having all this steamy non-stop sex.

75 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:21:10pm

re: #72 ProGunLiberal

Speaking of which, where is he?

Riding a rainbow-farting unicorn on the dark side of the moon, I imagine.

76 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:21:32pm

re: #63 Phlebas

Arguably does not apply to issues of at-will employment in a right to work state where the issue is framed as the willingness to allow a full background check. I think personal, medical information will have to be specifically exempted by Federal statute. Lots of legislative burden rolling towards Congress on these issues.

This appears to not be the case, though I'll grant that it's not the greatest source on earth.

I'm looking for something better.

77 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:22:12pm

re: #73 Freeze Peach

Given how the Soviet Union lacked the proper sex ed and oral contraceptives were in deficit, the GOP pretty much wishes the US to mimic USSR in this respect. Moreover, not just USSR, but Stalin's USSR, when abortion and male homosexuality were outlawed.

Well, Newt thinks a dictator from Georgia should be in charge.
/

78 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:23:42pm

re: #77 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
It seems as though he is nominating himself.

79 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:23:44pm

re: #76 erik_t

It's not a very cut-and-dry corner of the law. And I am certainly not an employment lawyer.

80 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:23:50pm

re: #77 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Well, Newt thinks a dictator from Georgia should be in charge.
/

You win this thread. Take an internet from the internet jar.

81 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:25:43pm

Rep. Peter King Defends Videotaped Raid

First it was edited. Then it was scraped from his YouTube account altogether. But on Wednesday, Rep. Peter King said there was nothing wrong with videotaping an action-packed raid he participated in earlier in the week with federal law enforcement in New York.

Following inquiries from TPM, the US Marshals Service on Tuesday said they were investigating whether the video King (R-NY) posted, which showed agents kicking down doors and chasing after a suspect in Brooklyn while he tagged along, violated federal policy.

82 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:27:34pm

re: #76 erik_t

What's covered under the ADA.

84 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:27:45pm

re: #81 Kragar

These idiots always develop a love for action and danger after they are too old to serve in the military. Asshat.

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:28:04pm

re: #81 Kragar

Rep. Peter King Defends Videotaped Raid

Fully in keeping with Rush's demand that since Ms Fluke is getting paid to have sex, she should post the videos on the Internet: if he is getting paid to conduct these raids, he should post them, too...

/

86 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:29:31pm

re: #76 erik_t

Straight from the horse's mouth.

Employers may not ask job applicants about medical information or require a physical examination prior to offering employment. After employment is offered, an employer can only ask for a medical examination if it is required of all employees holding similar jobs. (text of ADA)

87 mr.fusion  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:29:38pm

So now even married women (and men) aren't allowed to have sex for any reason other than procreation?

Small gubmint!!!1!

88 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:30:09pm

re: #81 Kragar

Oh look, the terrorist sympathizer is acting like he cares about law.

Also, this just popped up on Something Awful:

So one of the editors at the Oregonian who decided against running Doonesbury just died.

In the apartment of a 23 year-old that he was paying for sex with on an ongoing basis.

Uh-huh. Anyone have comments?

89 Simply Sarah  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:30:24pm

re: #79 Phlebas

It's not a very cut-and-dry corner of the law. And I am certainly not an employment lawyer.

The link is correct in that the Americans with Disabilities Act basically bars any covered employer from asking non-job related questions. Trying to require a general HIPAA waiver as a condition of employment would get you into a huge amount of trouble with the government.

90 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:30:40pm

re: #81 Kragar

Rep. Peter King Defends Videotaped Raid

I wonder why they think that's illegal. Wouldn't that be a regular ride along? Are politicians not allowed to do that?

91 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:32:08pm

re: #87 mr.fusion

So now even married women (and men) aren't allowed to have sex for any reason other than procreation?

Small gubmint!!!1!

These people are still pissed about Griswold and Eisenstadt. They're determined to roll things back to a time when the only women who could use birth control were married women who got permission from their husbands.

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:32:25pm

re: #88 ProGunLiberal

Oh look, the terrorist sympathizer is acting like he cares about law.

Also, this just popped up on Something Awful:

Uh-huh. Anyone have comments?

As if the MBF had intervened to make up for the Planned Parenthood CEO busted on indecent exposure charges...

I wonder what this girl was using for contraceptives and who was paying for them.

93 JAFO  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:32:58pm

re: #58 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Built-in RFID tags and web-cams to be monitored by a state agency in order to prevent mis-use of course.
///

They aren't really "ribbed for her pleasure", that's just the RFID tag.

94 simoom  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:33:49pm

[Link: lacrossetribune.com...]

DUNKERTON, Iowa — Administrators, teachers and students did not get what they expected Thursday during an extended school program.

Everyone anticipated the message from Junkyard Prophet, a traveling band based in Minnesota, to be about bullying and making good choices. Instead, junior and senior high students at Dunkerton High School and faculty members said they were assaulted by the group's extreme opinions on homosexuality and images of aborted fetuses.

"They told my daughter, the girls, that they were going to have mud on their wedding dresses if they weren't virgins," said Jennifer Littlefield, a parent upset with the band's performance.

Her daughter, Alivia Littlefield, 16, is a junior, and called Littlefield after the event.

"I couldn't even understand her, she was crying so hard," Littlefield said.
Littlefield also did not appreciate what she described as gay bashing.
"They told these kids that anyone who was gay was going to die at the age of 42," she said. "It just blows me away that no one stopped this."

...

After performing, the group separated boys, girls and teachers in the building.

During the breakout session, the young men learned the group's thoughts on the U.S. Constitution and what one Prophet referred to as its "10 commandments." The leader also showed images of musicians who died because of drug overdoses, including Elvis Presley.

...

The girls, meanwhile, were told to save themselves for their husbands and assume a submissive role in the household. According to witnesses, the leader in that effort also forced the young ladies to chant a manta of sorts about remaining pure.

Video of the group's presentation here: [Link: screen.yahoo.com...]

95 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:33:51pm

re: #92 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I has a feeling of schadenfreude.

96 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:34:02pm

So now it not only sucks to be brown in arizona, it sucks to be a woman too? Double whammy for brown women...re: #58 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Built-in RFID tags and web-cams to be monitored by a state agency in order to prevent mis-use of course.
///

And the video tapes will be sold on a new POV site.

97 dragonfire1981  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:35:08pm

In Soviet America, Sex controls you!

98 bratwurst  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:36:49pm
99 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:38:14pm

re: #98 bratwurst

Rush: "How can I be anti-woman? I even judged the Miss America pageant!"

"How can I be anti-woman? I married 3 of them!"

100 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:39:06pm

re: #99 Freeze Peach
He is still looking for the right one. /

101 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:40:01pm

re: #99 Freeze Peach

"How can I be anti-woman? I married 3 of them!"

"Wait, 4 of them actually. So many I lost count. And I loved them all!"

102 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:40:06pm

re: #98 bratwurst

"How can you say I hate animals? I love animals. I eat them every day."

103 shutdown  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:40:37pm

re: #89 Simply Sarah

The link is correct in that the Americans with Disabilities Act basically bars any covered employer from asking non-job related questions. Trying to require a general HIPAA waiver as a condition of employment would get you into a huge amount of trouble with the government.

Useful:

[Link: www.americanstaffing.net...]

104 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:41:05pm

re: #98 bratwurst

Rush: "How can I be anti-woman? I even judged the Miss America pageant!"

He must love liberals, he passes judgement on them every day...

105 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:42:00pm

re: #89 Simply Sarah

The link is correct in that the Americans with Disabilities Act basically bars any covered employer from asking non-job related questions. Trying to require a general HIPAA waiver as a condition of employment would get you into a huge amount of trouble with the government.

Do not assume that these lawmakers really though it through to that extent: they are trying to make an ideological statement.

106 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:44:46pm

Hey, remember 2010, when they said it was all about jobs?

It wasn't all about jobs.

107 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:45:42pm

re: #106 BongCrodny

Hey, remember 2010, when they said it was all about jobs?

It wasn't all about jobs.

well, it is about employment...

108 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:47:25pm

re: #88 ProGunLiberal

Oh look, the terrorist sympathizer is acting like he cares about law.

Also, this just popped up on Something Awful:

Uh-huh. Anyone have comments?

They should check and see if Viagra contributed to his heart attack.
All men should have to get a thorough physical and psychological exam before being prescribed the little blue pill. It's obvious they can not think for themselves when it comes to the dangers of the sex.

Otherwise...RIP

109 JeffM70  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:47:32pm

re: #106 BongCrodny

Turns out by jobs they meant blow jobs.

110 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:49:11pm

Gingrich: The Left Doesn't 'Believe the Wright Brothers Invented Flying'

Liberals have this desire to ration, to regulate, to control and the possibility that we could actually produce enough energy that we did not need the Middle East is something that most liberals just look at with fear because it suddenly means that you and I could be free, we could buy the kind of car that we want, we'd have a job here at home, the government would be less important. It's a fascinating experience.

The Left has believed for at least forty years now in a concept called Peak Oil that says 'gee, we're about to run out." Well, it turns out that our reserves in the US, because of new technology, which is something that the Left rejects - they don't believe the Wright Brothers invented flying, they don't believe Edison invented electric light, and they don't believe we're about to invent the next generation of interesting things.

111 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:50:21pm

re: #110 Kragar

They didn't. They invented heavier-than-air flight.

So he's kind of right. We do tend to know history.

112 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:50:26pm

re: #110 Kragar

Gingrich: The Left Doesn't 'Believe the Wright Brothers Invented Flying'

Princess Dumbass of the Northwoods has word salad, Newt has... bizarre lie shotgun?

113 nines09  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:50:28pm

re: #98 bratwurst

Rush: "How can I be anti-woman? I even judged the Miss America pageant!"

"How can I be anti-drug? I did boatloads!"

114 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:50:37pm

re: #110 Kragar

Gingrich: The Left Doesn't 'Believe the Wright Brothers Invented Flying'

Yeah Newt because the left is the one that wants to cut funding to education and frown on science. What the fuck is he talking about anyhow. Reading what Newt Gingrich says is like that episode of South Park where Stan only sees shit come out of people's mouths and that's exactly what Newt is like for me.

115 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:50:43pm

re: #110 Kragar

Gingrich: The Left Doesn't 'Believe the Wright Brothers Invented Flying'

Why is Newt relevant in 2012 again? WTF.

116 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:51:00pm

re: #110 Kragar

Gingrich: The Left Doesn't 'Believe the Wright Brothers Invented Flying'

Newt Gingrich doesn't believe he just lost ANY chance he had of being the GOP's nominee last night.

117 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:51:11pm

re: #110 Kragar

To spend a day in his world must be a fascinating, if frightening experience. I mean really, I don't think I have seen someone with such a huge ego who believes themselves to be right since I talked to a crazy dude down on the corner who was yelling at a stop sign...

118 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:51:31pm

re: #115 Lidane

Why is Newt relevant in 2012 again? WTF.

Yeah that was one fad of the 90's that I hoped stayed in the 90's. And if any of these candidates start doing the Macarena, I may have to start hurting some people.

119 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:52:07pm

re: #111 Obdicut

They didn't. They invented heavier-than-air flight.

So he's kind of right. We do tend to know history.

And even their claim to heavier-than-air flight remains in dispute to this day.

120 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:53:00pm

re: #114 HappyWarrior

Newt is the poster child for why we need more education. Further if he was just a paid "historian" for Fannie and Freddie then it's no wonder they fell apart. His version of History is so far out it's from another dimension.

121 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:53:27pm

re: #110 Kragar

Well, it turns out that our reserves in the US, because of new technology, which is something that the Left rejects - they don't believe the Wright Brothers invented flying, they don't believe Edison invented electric light, and they don't believe we're about to invent the next generation of interesting things.

Speaking of... shameless page pimping.

122 nines09  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:53:42pm

re: #115 Lidane

Why is Newt relevant in 2012 again? WTF.

Because the GOP/TP is so totally corrupt he looks good.

123 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:53:49pm

re: #110 Kragar

Da Vinci (or pre-DaVinci) anyone? Montgolfier Bros?

124 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:53:52pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

And even their claim to heavier-than-air flight remains in dispute to this day.

In favor of what, precisely?

125 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:54:49pm

re: #114 HappyWarrior

Yeah Newt because the left is the one that wants to cut funding to education and frown on science. What the fuck is he talking about anyhow. Reading what Newt Gingrich says is like that episode of South Park where Stan only sees shit come out of people's mouths and that's exactly what Newt is like for me.

Another gaffe in Newt's effort to pander to fundamentalists:

God invented flying, you RINO infidel. The Wright brothers invented the airplane.

126 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:55:13pm

re: #124 erik_t

In favor of what, precisely?

There's several inventors, both here in the US and abroad, who either claimed to have developed heavier-than-air flight before the Wright Brothers or that their own inventions were the first "true" airplanes as opposed to the Wright Flyer.

127 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:55:21pm

I'm getting pretty sick of the 'religious freedom' argument.

It's not about denying your right to live the way you want. It's about the right of my misogynistic religion to tell you how you should live!

128 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:56:25pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

There's several inventors, both here in the US and abroad, who either claimed to have developed heavier-than-air flight before the Wright Brothers or that their own inventions were the first "true" airplanes as opposed to the Wright Flyer.

None of them are credible to any meaningful degree, not compared to the wealth of information we have about critical problems that were solved by the Wrights but not by others.

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:56:59pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

And even their claim to heavier-than-air flight remains in dispute to this day.

They are, however, and indisputably, the first people to offer an airplane for sale that met certain minimum specifications for distance covered and altitude reached.

Up to then, lots of people were experimenting with various forms of powered flight, but it was all rather hit-or-miss, so to speak.

130 Girth  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:57:58pm
131 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:59:15pm

Newt is correct in that we have large domestic reserves of fossil fuels. What he is leaving out of the equation is the costs, especially the environmental costs of extracting and exploiting them.

132 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 12:59:40pm

re: #128 erik_t

None of them are credible to any meaningful degree, not compared to the wealth of information we have about critical problems that were solved by the Wrights but not by others.

Like I said, it's in dispute, but generally accepted that they were the first to fly what we consider a "true" airplane. It's not really the only invention whose original inventor is in dispute, those in most of those cases the dispute boiled down to who held which patent and how much of their work was considered "copied."

133 JeffM70  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:00:04pm

re: #110 Kragar

Everyone knows the Wright Brothers invented flying. That's how birds learned to fly.

134 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:00:20pm
"We don’t live in the Soviet Union,” Lesko said. “So, government should not be telling the organizations or mom and pop employers to do something against their moral beliefs.”

Senator Lesko - as much as you might want it to happen, we don't live in Saudi Arabia either.

135 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:00:20pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

Among them was Samuel Langley. He was a professor at the Naval Academy, inventor, and worked on aircraft design. The first US Aircraft Carrier - USS Langley was named in his honor.

His design didn't have the kind of surface control that the Wrights incorporated, but he did utilize a catapult to launch the plane into the air - a standard feature on US carriers since the late 1940s as aircraft grew heavier (and which were steam catapults until the new USS Ford comes online, which will have electronic catapults)

136 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:01:01pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

There's several inventors, both here in the US and abroad, who either claimed to have developed heavier-than-air flight before the Wright Brothers or that their own inventions were the first "true" airplanes as opposed to the Wright Flyer.

The Wrights' crucial invention was a workable control system for a powered airplane. They get credit for being first because it was this development that really made powered, controlled flight possible. All subsequent development flows directly from their work. There were airplanes before the Wrights that made short hops but could never have done better than that because they were essentially uncontrollable.

137 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:04:18pm

re: #136 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

The Wrights' crucial invention was a workable control system for a powered airplane. They get credit for being first because it was this development that really made powered, controlled flight possible. All subsequent development flows directly from their work. There were airplanes before the Wrights that made short hops but could never have done better than that because they were essentially uncontrollable.

This is precisely correct. The Wrights had the first vehicle that was (or could be/was rapidly made to be) stable and under positive control in all three axes. Without this characteristic, a construct could move through the air but shouldn't be considered to be a 'vehicle' in a meaningful or useful sense.

138 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:04:37pm

re: #135 lawhawk

Among them was Samuel Langley. He was a professor at the Naval Academy, inventor, and worked on aircraft design. The first US Aircraft Carrier - USS Langley was named in his honor.

His design didn't have the kind of surface control that the Wrights incorporated, but he did utilize a catapult to launch the plane into the air - a standard feature on US carriers since the late 1940s as aircraft grew heavier (and which were steam catapults until the new USS Ford comes online, which will have electronic catapults)

Yep. The dispute between him and the Wrights is why the Wright Flyer was not displayed in the Smithsonian for decades after the original flight, as the Secretary of the Smithsonian at the time was friends with Langley and so was biased in favor of his Aerodrome being viewed as the first aircraft "capable" of flight.

139 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:04:56pm

re: #115 Lidane

Why is Newt relevant in 2012 again? WTF.

He's not.

If this were Superman II, he might get to be "Newt Gingrich, RULER of GEORGIA!" but Wally Cleaver Torquemada punk'd him in his own backyard.

It will be an awesome day in the United States when that creep finally drops out of the race.

140 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:05:17pm

re: #135 lawhawk

Oh, and Langley invented the bolometer, which he used to infer that CO2 traps heat (and later used by others to note global warming).

141 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:05:21pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

There's several inventors, both here in the US and abroad, who either claimed to have developed heavier-than-air flight before the Wright Brothers or that their own inventions were the first "true" airplanes as opposed to the Wright Flyer.

There were many working on the problem & I've read those arguments. I also have a print of the glass plate the Wrights took on December 17, 1903.

Image: vc006764.jpg

Good enough for me.

142 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:07:37pm

re: #136 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

IIRC, the Wrights were the first to be able to guarantee that their plane would fly at least 2 miles' distance at a minimum altitude of 100 feet and land within 400 yards of where it took off.

Just like all the ohters who "discovered" America before Columbus: Columbus was the one who opened trade with the Americas.

Or Germany's Phillip Reis, who invented a functioning telephone before Alexander Graham Bell. But Bell was the one who had the idea of connecting an entire continent to a telephone system.

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:08:13pm

I thought it was Icarus who invented flying. Stupid Newt./

144 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:12:56pm

The Wrights' careful scientific approach to design also set many precedents. Professor Langley was far better qualified in terms of credentials, and knew a great deal about aerodynamics. His engine, designed by Charles Manly, was probably the most advanced in the world for a good ten years after 1903. Nevertheless, he took a completely casual approach to controls and structural design, with the result that his airplane broke up and flopped into the water as soon as it was launched, nearly drowning the pilot, Charles Manly himself.
Brazilians claim priority for Alberto Santos-Dumont and his 1906 airplane, the 14-bis, which was the first to fly in Europe. They base this on a bit of semantic hair-splitting: the Wrights launched their planes with a weight driven catapult, while Santos-Dumont's took off without assistance. I guess planes launched from carriers aren't really flying then. Btw, Santos-Dumont's machine flew only 200 meters and could not turn out of a straight line, while the Wrights had already demonstrated long flights, up to half an hour by this time, and complete freedom of direction.

145 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:13:58pm

re: #143 Freeze Peach

I thought it was Icarus who invented flying. Stupid Newt./

I believe you mean Daedalus, the guy who actually built the wax wings and survived using them.

146 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:14:57pm
Gingrich: "[Leftists]don't believe the Wright Brothers invented flying, they don't believe Edison invented electric light, and they don't believe we're about to invent the next generation of interesting things."

That would be an 0-for-3 on Gingrich's part.

Powered airflight (I'm being generous here): Not invented by the Wright Brothers, just were the fist to attain sustained flight for an appreciable distance. The concept was around in ancient Greece, and the first theoretically workable model was created by Leonardo da Vinci in 1505.

Electirc Light: Thomas Davy had working platinum-filament bulbs around 1802 - almost 80 years before Edison, whose invention was a long-life tungsten filament bulb, which allowed for inexpensive electric lighting.

Next-generation science: The two big areas that are going to be at the forefront here are micro-engineering and renewable-source energy. Guess which two areas of research are being defunded by Republicans?

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:16:22pm

re: #115 Lidane

Why is Newt relevant in 2012 again? WTF.

I know right


have a drink, watch them eat each other

148 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:20:07pm

re: #145 jamesfirecat

And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you, meddling James!//

149 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:23:38pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

And even their claim to heavier-than-air flight remains in dispute to this day.

I believe that a number of creatures, including dragonflies for instance, could dispute it as well. Sustained *Human* heavier-than-air flight perhaps can be granted to the enterprising men from Ohio.

But the concept of nuance has also been lost.

150 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:27:11pm
151 Stentor  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 12:58:30am

“I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the Soviet Union,” Lesko said. “So, government should not be telling the organizations or mom and pop employers to do something against their moral beliefs.”

My Irony Meter just blew a fuse.

152 Thorzdad  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 7:49:24am

This crap is why the real race in November is NOT for control of the White House. The real battles are on the state level. The right long-ago determined that control of state legislatures will allow them to further their mad dash off the cliff far better than will winning the Presidency ever will. In the end, it really doesn't matter who is in the Oval Office, so long as state legislatures are firmly in Republican hands. Sure, having an R as President might help things along, but they have found that their agenda move-along far more smoothly on the state level, than it ever can in the eternal stalemate of Washington.

We can have a true far-left liberal in the Presidency and it will have no effect on right-wing state legislatures continued war on teachers, gays, women, workers, public education, the poor, unions, etc. etc.

153 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 8:49:42am

re: #151 Stentor

Welcome, hatchling.

154 Stephen T.  Fri, Mar 16, 2012 4:51:33pm

Darn, I was scooped


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2021-06-05 2:51 pm PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Train Songs Five
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
4 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 346 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 6
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Four
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
4 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 345 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Three
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
4 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 333 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Snarky Puppy - Trinity (Extended Version) Snarky Puppy never lets you down, they always come out bright and enthusiastically high on the sounds. Snarky Puppy - Trinity (Extended Version)From Snarky Puppy's new album, Empire Central (September 2022, GroundUP Music)Stream/Buy: orcd.co Written by Mark LettieriArranged by ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 681 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 •