Jim Hoft’s Idiotic Post of the Week: The ‘Occupy Rape’ That Wasn’t

Not just dim, dishonest
Wingnuts • Views: 39,622

Channeling the spirit of Andrew Breitbart, Jim Hoft, the redoubtable Gateway Pundit, is hyperventilating and shrieking “Stop the raping!” He must have a Google News alert set up for “Occupy AND rape.”

Note that whenever Hoft slams the Occupy movement, he robotically inserts the phrase “Obama-endorsed.”

Another Day… Another Rape at an Obama-Endorsed #Occupy Camp | the Gateway Pundit.

DERPStop the Killing! Stop the Raping!

England Gamble, 53, of New Haven, is the latest #occupier to be charged with rape. …

The #Occupy movement may be winding down but not the raping.
NBC Connecticut reported…

If you’re reading a randomly capitalized blog post by Jim Hoft (something I don’t really recommend) and you see him link to a news article to back up one of his smears, it’s always a good idea to click through and read it yourself. Because Hoft is often lying about it.

In this case, breitbart.com star blogger Jim Hoft linked to NBC Connecticut: Woman Raped at Occupy New Haven: Cops.

Hoft quoted the first five paragraphs of the NBC article, but oddly stopped quoting right before paragraphs 6 and 7:

Gamble is on the state sex offender registry for a first-degree sexual assault conviction in 1991. The registry said he was released from prison in 1996 and did not register his address. 

Members of the Occupy movement said neither Gamble nor the victim are members of the movement. They said both are homeless and set up a tent nearby.

To sum up, the very article to which Jim Hoft is linking shows his own post to be a steaming pile.

Just another day in the vague, confused, but very very angry life of Jim “Dim” Hoft, the Internet’s Dumbest Wingnut.

UPDATE at 3/14/12 1:17:40 pm

Police confirm that the alleged rapist was not part of the Occupy movement.

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302 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:07:40pm

You know I am not a huge fan of the Occupy movement but I am not a fan of dishonest agendas either and Hoft is full of the latter.

2 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:09:13pm

Heh. Deja vu.

3 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:09:49pm

Hey now, I have it on good authority that any crimes that happen within 5 square miles of an Occupy camp are due to Occupy!

//

4 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:09:59pm

re: #2 Obdicut

Heh. Deja vu.

THEY SURROUND US

5 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:10:10pm

"Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades."

And rape, apparently.

6 Big Joe  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:10:21pm

Poor KT, scooped by Jim Hoft.
//

7 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:11:03pm

Has Hoft been using Kilgore for research?

8 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:11:11pm

Heh.

9 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:12:18pm

The police also confirmed that Gamble was not part of Occupy.

[Link: www.courant.com...]

10 jaunte  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:17:03pm

I'm going to have a sip of Obama-endorsed water and think about this.

11 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:18:36pm

I have seen how Occupy tries to help the homeless near their camps. It's actually heartening, one of the good things about them. Not only do they not get credit for opening the medical tent and offering food and water, but they get BS accusations like this for the effort.

12 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:20:26pm

re: #11 Daniel Ballard

That's because they're just a bunch of dirty, smelly, rapey stabby hippies and radicals, don'tcha know.

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:21:43pm

I foresee a lot of silent seething over this./

14 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:24:03pm

Don't you know that it's different for hippies?

Oh Andrew Sullivan, such a shit, lol

15 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:24:37pm

This one isn't just dim -- there's no way that Hoft could have read just the first 5 paragraphs and missed the very next section that says it's not connected to Occupy.

He's deliberately lying in his post.

16 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:24:52pm

re: #11 Daniel Ballard

I have seen how Occupy tries to help the homeless near their camps. It's actually heartening, one of the good things about them. Not only do they not get credit for opening the medical tent and offering food and water, but they get BS accusations like this for the effort.

Well, I think it's actually part of the problem. Their hearts are in the right place but at homeless shelters there are rules. If people are intoxicated or cause trouble they get thrown out. There are security staff to handle problems, etc. Having occupy just throw out the welcome mat, provide food and shelter in an unsupervised and insecure setting without rules made some of the camps very dangerous places. Here at Occupy Eugene that was a big problem that culminated into a man getting severely beaten in a drunken homeless brawl. He might have died, I never saw an update to the story.

17 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:25:11pm

Let's look at the chief spokesmen for modern conservatism over the last 50 years:
Barry Goldwater--->William Buckley---->Ronald Reagan---->Pat Buchanan---->Jim Hoft

No wonder they don't believe in evolution.

18 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:25:14pm

Well you know the argument will be something like:

Well the occupy people have set a stage for rapes and stabbings, attracting all these homeless criminals

Right, like these people would not be raping and stabbing elsewhere.

19 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:26:11pm

re: #9 Obdicut

The police also confirmed that Gamble was not part of Occupy.

[Link: www.courant.com...]

Don't you understand? The police are just covering up for the Occupy movement people!

20 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:26:16pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

This one isn't just dim -- there's no way that Hoft could have read just the first 5 paragrpahs and missed the very next section that says it's not connected to Occupy.

He's deliberately lying in his post.

Counter-point: There's no way that Hoft could have read more than five full paragraphs.

21 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:27:07pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Your view of homeless shelters is rather rosy. And it's also kind of pointless; homeless people aren't mostly living in shelters. They're mostly out on the street.

22 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:27:18pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Well, I think it's actually part of the problem. Their hearts are in the right place but at homeless shelters there are rules. If people are intoxicated or cause trouble they get thrown out. There are security staff to handle problems, etc. Having occupy just throw out the welcome mat, provide food and shelter in an unsupervised and insecure setting without rules made some of the camps very dangerous places. Here at Occupy Eugene that was a big problem that culminated into a man getting severely beaten in a drunken homeless brawl. He might have died, I never saw an update to the story.

So if those homeless people get thrown out of the shelters...that means they dont go on to commit crimes?

23 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:29:10pm

re: #21 Obdicut

Your view of homeless shelters is rather rosy. And it's also kind of pointless; homeless people aren't mostly living in shelters. They're mostly out on the street.

I've done a lot of volunteer work in shelters. I know what I'm talking about.

24 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:30:35pm

re: #11 Daniel Ballard

I have seen how Occupy tries to help the homeless near their camps. It's actually heartening, one of the good things about them. Not only do they not get credit for opening the medical tent and offering food and water, but they get BS accusations like this for the effort.

There's actually a problem with that. By encouraging the homeless to live on the streets, they aren't really helping them. The homeless create a lot of garbage, not to mention urinating and defecating. They are better off in a shelter. It's another reason people shouldn't give to panhandlers, although I do, but the homeless shelters will tell you not to. Especially those who need extra care, the mentally ill or veterans.

[Link: www.miamidade.gov...]

25 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:33:31pm

This got a lot of attention at SXSW:

SXSW "Homeless Hotspot" stunt draws criticism

One of the biggest news stories (so far) out of Austin this year is not about a celebrity at all. It involves the movers and shakers of the interactive business, a growing part of the annual festival.

A marketing stunt that paid homeless people to carry Wi-Fi signals during the South by Southwest Conference is drawing widespread criticism.

Advertising agency, Bartle Bogle Hegarty's BBH Labs, gave 14 people from a homeless shelter mobile Wi-Fi devices and T-shirts that announced "I am a 4G Hotspot."

BBH New York chairwoman Emma Cookson says the company paid them a minimum of $50 a day. She called the experiment a modernized version of homeless selling street newspapers.

Others have called the program exploitive. ReadWriteWeb called it a "blunt display of unselfconscious gall."

26 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:33:56pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

I've done a lot of volunteer work in shelters. I know what I'm talking about.

Great! I've done a lot of work in volunteer shelters too, Killgore. So you probably know that there are lots of attacks and rapes that occur inside shelters, right?

Here's a paper covering some of the subject.

[Link: www.vawnet.org...]

You're surely not denying that attacks occur inside shelters, right? And, especially, around them?

27 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:34:27pm

re: #21 Obdicut

Your view of homeless shelters is rather rosy. And it's also kind of pointless; homeless people aren't mostly living in shelters. They're mostly out on the street.

I found this on PBS's website:

One approximation of the annual number of homeless in America is from a study by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, which estimates between 2.3 and 3.5 million people experience homelessness. According to a 2008 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development report an estimated 671,888 people experienced homelessness in one night in January 2007. Some 58 percent of them were living in shelters and transitional housing and, 42 percent were unsheltered.

So by strict definition, "most" -- no. A hell of a lot -- yes.

28 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:35:51pm
29 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:37:21pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

Why is he so upset? I thought rapists were instruments of God's Will and all that. Thats what the Wingnuts keep telling us.
/

30 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:37:23pm

re: #22 blueraven

So if those homeless people get thrown out of the shelters...that means they dont go on to commit crimes?

Of course not. It doesn't appear that this suspect was homeless. He was probably attracted to the campsite because of the easy choice of victims and lax security. He probably would have rapped again without the camp, IIRC he has a previous conviction for sexual assault.

31 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:37:23pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

Charles, you may also want to add this:

[Link: www.courant.com...]

The police agrees Gamble was not with the Occupy:

Gamble is not part of the Occupy movement, police said.

32 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:37:31pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

So much for fact checking, my ass.

33 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:38:38pm

Nice bit of revisionism and MBF invocation going on over at Politico, I see.

The left’s war on Rush Limbaugh's advertisers

Leaning on advertisers as a means to an end has been put to use many times previously by liberal groups — most recently in last year’s campaign to oust Glenn Beck from Fox News — and conservatives see it as evidence of a desire on the left simply to silence speech that they don’t like.

“It’s not enough to get an apology out of Rush Limbaugh. They want him off the air. He was still exercising his First Amendment rights,” Keith Appell, the Senior VP for CRC Public Relations, told POLITICO. “Trying to get someone off the air sounds like something out of the old Soviet Union.”

“Conservatives disagree, but we don’t try to silence people,” he added.

Apparently, Mr. Appell has never heard of the American Family Association, or pretty much anyone in the social conservative movement. Another hint: it isn't "liberals" who engage in acts like public book-burnings.

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:39:27pm

re: #33 RadicalModerate

Of course they do it all the time.

35 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:40:56pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Hey, look:

[Link: bostonherald.com...]

That's a worker at a homeless shelter raping a 19 year old girl.

This guy got hired at a homeless shelter when he was on probation for kidnapping.

[Link: www.norwalkreflector.com...]

This security guard at a homeless shelter raped someone.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

36 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:41:13pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

What a pathetic piece of shit he is. He knows the guy wasn't part of Occupy but yet he continues to lie.

37 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:41:25pm

re: #33 RadicalModerate

Nice bit of revisionism and MBF invocation going on over at Politico, I see.

The left’s war on Rush Limbaugh's advertisers

Apparently, Mr. Appell has never heard of the American Family Association, or pretty much anyone in the social conservative movement. Another hint: it isn't "liberals" who engage in acts like public book-burnings.

Breitbart's site is promoting the "discovery" of new Al sharpton audio today. All of it previously known. They'd love to get him fired too. They're also Working on Bill Maher and already cost Louis CK his gig at the correspodent's dinner.

38 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:41:34pm

re: #29 Kragar

Why is he so upset? I thought rapists were instruments of God's Will and all that. Thats what the Wingnuts keep telling us.
/

Only if they get the woman pregnant...

/

39 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:42:15pm

re: #33 RadicalModerate

Nice bit of revisionism and MBF invocation going on over at Politico, I see.

The left’s war on Rush Limbaugh's advertisers

Apparently, Mr. Appell has never heard of the American Family Association, or pretty much anyone in the social conservative movement. Another hint: it isn't "liberals" who engage in acts like public book-burnings.

We don't try to silence people? Uh yeah like they didn't when the Dixie Chicks disagreed with the Iraq War. Oh wait, yes they did. What a bunch of hypocrites.

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:42:45pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Good riddance with Sharpton and Maher. Know nothing about the other guy except that he is apparently some famous comedian.

41 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:43:47pm

re: #40 Freeze Peach

Good riddance with Sharpton and Maher. Know nothing about the other guy except that he is apparently some famous comedian.

He's a pretty popular comic. I've never heard his gig but he's completely different from Limbaugh in that he isn't a water carrier for an ideology.

42 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:43:52pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

We don't try to silence people? Uh yeah like they didn't when the Dixie Chicks disagreed with the Iraq War. Oh wait, yes they did. What a bunch of hypocrites.

And let us not forget the more recent boycott campaign against companies running ads on "All-American Muslim," on the grounds that it was "propaganda" because it didn't show "real" Muslims in America.

43 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:44:24pm

re: #40 Freeze Peach

Louis C.K. is an awesome comedian, who knows his shit is edgy and isn't suprrised when he's not considered appropriate for a venue. He's a big boy.

ANd smart, too-- sold his last album online himself and made a million in a day. Gave most of that money as bonuses to the people who work with him, because he's a nice guy.

44 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:44:41pm

re: #35 Obdicut

Aside from Killgore's views on the occupy movement and Jim Hoft's lying, it is much safer for homeless people to be in a shelter than on the street for a multitude of reasons. That's not to say people aren't harmed in either environment but when you're talking about rape, in particular, women are far more often abused on the streets than in shelters.

45 Girth  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:44:59pm

House Republican leaders set to break US budget deal

But both Republican and Democratic aides fear an impasse on spending bills that would threaten a potential government shutdown battle just weeks before the November election. The current spending authority expires on Sept. 30.

Shut it down, I triple-dog dare you. Wingers I know will cheer them on and then be shell-shocked and confused a few weeks later when the GOP gets swept out of Washington.

46 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:45:03pm

re: #42 Targetpractice

And let us not forget the more recent boycott campaign against companies running ads on "All-American Muslim," on the grounds that it was "propaganda" because it didn't show "real" Muslims in America.

Yeah. And the recent "outrages" at Maher and others. I love it though. Limbaugh doesn't have a right to his radio show. People have the right to boycott his clown show and advertisers have the right ot pull their ads from his garbage fest.

47 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:45:06pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Well, he wasn't really censored either. Well, yeah, he didn't speak at some event, big deal. I take it his business has not been harmed.

48 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:45:43pm

re: #47 Freeze Peach

Well, he wasn't really censored either. Well, yeah, he didn't speak at some event, big deal. I take it his business has not been harmed.

Yeah he'll be fine I am sure.

49 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:45:52pm

re: #44 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Sure, sure, I'm not arguing against that. But a lot of shelters are understaffed, or have people who don't know what the hell to do about violence. In addition, shelters have to turn away a lot of people, and a lot of assholes wait around them to prey on the people coming to and from them.

50 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:46:02pm

re: #45 Girth

House Republican leaders set to break US budget deal

Surprises: ur doin them rong.

51 leftynyc  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:46:30pm

re: #33 RadicalModerate

Nice bit of revisionism and MBF invocation going on over at Politico, I see.

The left’s war on Rush Limbaugh's advertisers


Apparently, Mr. Appell has never heard of the American Family Association, or pretty much anyone in the social conservative movement. Another hint: it isn't "liberals" who engage in acts like public book-burnings.

I'm sure the Dixie Chicks would also have something to say about that particular lie.

52 Girth  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:46:42pm

re: #33 RadicalModerate

“Trying to get someone off the air sounds like something out of the old Soviet Union.”

Sounds like a different group of people exercising their 1st Amendment rights to me, buddy.

53 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:47:01pm

re: #43 Obdicut

Louis C.K. is an awesome comedian, who knows his shit is edgy and isn't suprrised when he's not considered appropriate for a venue. He's a big boy.

ANd smart, too-- sold his last album online himself and made a million in a day. Gave most of that money as bonuses to the people who work with him, because he's a nice guy.

I like Louis C.K. He's hilarious.

What really amazes some people is that he's Mexican. His first language was Spanish, he lived in Mexico until he was seven and still keeps his Mexican citizenship.

54 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:47:20pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Of course not. It doesn't appear that this suspect was homeless. He was probably attracted to the campsite because of the easy choice of victims and lax security. He probably would have rapped again without the camp, IIRC he has a previous conviction for sexual assault.

Not buying it KT. There are victims everywhere. If someone is compelled to rape, they will find a victim.
This guy is a repeat offender, jail and the threat of time didn't stop him, neither would proximity.

55 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:47:36pm

re: #53 Lidane

I didn't know that! That's nifty.

56 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:47:36pm

re: #40 Freeze Peach

Good riddance with Sharpton and Maher. Know nothing about the other guy except that he is apparently some famous comedian.

I'm not a fan of Sharpton or Maher but I don't watch their shows. I don't want to throw them to intolerant censorship wolves. I would rather they go away on their own.

57 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:48:51pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I'm not a fan of Sharpton or Maher but I don't watch their shows. I don't want to throw them to intolerant censorship wolves. I would rather they go away on their own.

What's the difference, if the result is the same?

58 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:48:59pm

re: #45 Girth

House Republican leaders set to break US budget deal

Shut it down, I triple-dog dare you. Wingers I know will cheer them on and then be shell-shocked and confused a few weeks later when the GOP gets swept out of Washington.

Shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, especially not when there's an active campaign to undo most of last year's Budget Act where it regards defense spending.

Personally, I think it's a great thing for Obama to run on this fall: The GOP cannot be trusted to keep their word, they will break it the moment you turn your back on them.

59 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:49:10pm

re: #57 Freeze Peach

What's the difference, if the result is the same?

Which day's answer would you like?

60 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:49:37pm

re: #59 erik_t

Which day's answer would you like?

Oh, right. I forgot it's a neverending story. Nevermind.

61 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:49:46pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Breitbart's site is promoting the "discovery" of new Al sharpton audio today. All of it previously known. They'd love to get him fired too. They're also Working on Bill Maher and already cost Louis CK his gig at the correspodent's dinner.

I thought Maher should have been dumped for this "dumb twat" comment about Palin. Maher's an idiot. I used to love Politically Incorrect, but he started with the misogyny and I stopped listening to him ages ago.

62 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:49:49pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I'm not a fan of Sharpton or Maher but I don't watch their shows. I don't want to throw them to intolerant censorship wolves. I would rather they go away on their own.

Why do you believe that taking the microphone away from someone qualifies as "censorship"?

63 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:49:53pm

It's really annoying to see Limbaugh be made into a victim over this. Yeah poor Rush is being exposed for the ignorant sob he really is. Those terrible liberals made him say those things.

64 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:49:59pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Intolerant censorship wolves!

Oh those poor people being thrown to their slavering jaws. Consider what happens to them! It's terrible!

Why won't someone think of the childish?

65 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:50:01pm

re: #46 HappyWarrior

Yeah. And the recent "outrages" at Maher and others. I love it though. Limbaugh doesn't have a right to his radio show. People have the right to boycott his clown show and advertisers have the right ot pull their ads from his garbage fest.

Limbaugh can run his radio show all he wants, and say whatever he wants within FCC guidelines. However, advertisers are not beholden to give him money, if they feel that his views are too outlandish for them.

Funny thing, that free market.

66 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:50:04pm

re: #49 Obdicut

Sure, sure, I'm not arguing against that. But a lot of shelters are understaffed, or have people who don't know what the hell to do about violence. In addition, shelters have to turn away a lot of people, and a lot of assholes wait around them to prey on the people coming to and from them.

Sure. It's like the predators who hang out near the Port Authority looking for kids fresh off the bus.

They look for the most vulnerable victims.

67 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:50:28pm

re: #65 RadicalModerate

Limbaugh can run his radio show all he wants, and say whatever he wants within FCC guidelines. However, advertisers are not beholden to give him money, if they feel that his views are too outlandish for them.

Funny thing, that free market.

Exactly.

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:50:44pm

re: #64 Obdicut

Those poor, poor millionaires.

69 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:51:26pm

It's free speech not we have to condone everything you say and like it speech.

70 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:51:39pm

re: #68 Freeze Peach

I think it's terrible the way Stormfront has been thrown to the intolerant censorship wolves and can't get any major advertisers. Isn't that just awful?

71 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:52:03pm

re: #69 HappyWarrior

It's free speech not we have to condone everything you say and like it speech.

Indeed, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

72 bluecheese  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:53:28pm

re: #40 Freeze Peach

Good riddance with Sharpton and Maher. Know nothing about the other guy except that he is apparently some famous comedian.

here you go.

Youtube Video
73 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:53:47pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

Why do you believe that taking the microphone away from someone qualifies as "censorship"?

Not taking away. No longer paying to speak into.

Even bigger leap of illogic.

74 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:53:53pm

I got a chance to show my book to a publisher recently. He quickly rejected it because it's got too much sex in it, an they don't carry books that are that risque.

I should have realized that I was being bitten in the face by an intolerant censorship wolf. I thought that the guy simply had a certain idea of what he wanted from his publishing line, and my book didn't fit in. But apparently, he was some sort of fascist lupine.

75 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:54:29pm

re: #71 Targetpractice

Indeed, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

I mean damn Rush's defenders are comparing this to the USSR. No if this were the USSR, Rush would be on the next train to Siberia. He's facing criticism for what he said. What a shock even blowhards like Limbaugh have to be accountable for their words.

76 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:54:40pm

re: #57 Freeze Peach

What's the difference, if the result is the same?

I see a very large difference. I'm not going to impose my morals on other people. If their employers want to keep them then that's their choice, not mine.

77 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:55:10pm

re: #32 lawhawk

So much for fact checking, my ass.

Who needs facts when you have Truth™?

78 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:55:13pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

I see a very large difference. I'm not going to impose my morals on other people. If their employers want to keep them then that's their choice, not mine.

It's still the employer making the choice, though. Try again?

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:56:17pm

re: #53 Lidane

I like Louis C.K. He's hilarious.

What really amazes some people is that he's Mexican. His first language was Spanish, he lived in Mexico until he was seven and still keeps his Mexican citizenship.

I didn't know that.

I've only seen a few bits of his. He's pretty good.

80 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:56:48pm

If the GOP has taught me anything, its that you can't trust the GOP.

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:57:23pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

I see a very large difference. I'm not going to impose my morals on other people. If their employers want to keep them then that's their choice, not mine.

Since we aren't talking about imposing anything, that's neither here, nor there.

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:58:16pm

re: #54 blueraven

Not buying it KT. There are victims everywhere. If someone is compelled to rape, they will find a victim.
This guy is a repeat offender, jail and the threat of time didn't stop him, neither would proximity.

I'm fairly sure the camps attract predators.

This doesn't mean 'they are bad', or 'they are good'. But a setting like that is attractive to a rapist, a thief...a whole lot of less-than-savory people.

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:58:17pm

BTW, Charles, you accidentally blocked me on twitter ;)

84 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:58:40pm

re: #80 Kragar

If the GOP has taught me anything, its that you can't trust the GOP.

Indeed, this makes how many deals they made in just the last year alone that they've gone back on, either because A) their base pitched a fit or B) they thought they could make Obama look bad?

85 Girth  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:59:07pm

re: #63 HappyWarrior

It's really annoying to see Limbaugh be made into a victim over this. Yeah poor Rush is being exposed for the ignorant sob he really is. Those terrible liberals made him say those things.

I listened to Rush back in the early to mid-90s. Never considered myself a "Dittohead" but I was generally a fan and fairly conservative. I clearly remember rants of how the left wanted everyone to be a victim so they could get special treatment, and how he scorned them for it.

Well, guess what? The entire conservative movement is pretty much based on victimhood now. "They won't tolerate my intolerance." "I'm taxed too much." "DEY TUK R JOBZ!"

Fuck Rush and Fuck Them. Stop your whining and practice some of that rugged individualism that you so love to beat off to.

86 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:59:13pm

re: #71 Targetpractice

Indeed, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

Freedom of speech also does not mean freedom of paid or sponsored speech.
Networks and sponsors are free to choose to pay or associate themselves with whoever they want

87 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:59:35pm

re: #81 Freeze Peach

Since we aren't talking about imposing anything, that's neither here, nor there.

That the whole point of the advertiser boycott: To pressure stations and advertisers to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

88 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:59:39pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm fairly sure the camps attract predators.

This doesn't mean 'they are bad', or 'they are good'. But a setting like that is attractive to a rapist, a thief...a whole lot of less-than-savory people.

Yep. As are homeless shelters themselves.

89 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:59:41pm

re: #83 Freeze Peach

BTW, Charles, you accidentally blocked me on twitter ;)

Were you using a pic of Breitbart for an avatar? Then it wasn't an accident!

/

90 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:00:28pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

So in other words, people can have an opinion about something that Limbaugh says, but they can't tell anyone else that opinion, since that would be imposing their morals on someone else.

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:00:31pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

That the whole point of the advertiser boycott: To pressure stations and advertisers to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

That's not imposing anything. They can always refuse.

92 Coracle  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:01:26pm

re: #91 Freeze Peach

That's not imposing anything. They can always refuse.

Free market, Baby.

93 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:01:35pm

re: #83 Freeze Peach

Hooray!

94 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:01:43pm

Money shot. You can't script comedy like this.

Eh, learned it was shopped. Dang it.

95 erik_t  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:01:59pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

That the whole point of the advertiser boycott: To pressure stations and advertisers to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

So you are against using one's thoughts to modify the world around them. I must only assume that you live inside a sound/light-proof bubble or deep dark cave, insulated from everything and everyone in order to avoid sharing your ideas and potentially changing the thought processes of someone around you.

One also wonders why you post here. I know us peons don't matter for shit, but what if one of the other posters owns a company?

96 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:02:18pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

That the whole point of the advertiser boycott: To pressure stations and advertisers to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

Advertisers do want to disassociate themselves from people that give them negative attention, though. So, no.

Do you get that if people followed your faux-Zen attitude and didn't call up places to let them know what they though, that advertisers would just do more field research?

You've never, never answered the straightforward question: If someone calls me up and asks, is it okay in your view to tell them I'm less likely to buy their product because of their association with such egregious statements, or should I simply play some windchimes for them?

97 Coracle  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:02:39pm

re: #94 Kragar

Money shot. You can't script comedy like this.

I can't even describe it, but its something you all need to see.

I'm pretty sure that's a 'shop job. I recall seeing it a few weeks ago.

98 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:02:42pm

re: #91 Freeze Peach

That's not imposing anything. They can always refuse.

As demonstrated by the failed boycott against Ellen.

99 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:04:03pm

re: #97 Coracle

I'm pretty sure that's a 'shop job. I recall seeing it a few weeks ago.

Yeah, I edited it to point that out when I learned.

oh well.

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:04:10pm

re: #98 Obdicut

Basically, I see it as a function of society's mores. If the society is largely bad, then good guys will get boycotted, and vice versa. I believe that the US society develops in the correct vector, so I'm not bothered by "what if they do it too" argument (both because they will do it anyway and because they will probably fail anyway).

101 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:04:11pm

re: #95 erik_t

Heh. One contract I turned down is actually doing research on people talking about a company on blogs. Word-of-mouth research. I don't do advertising-related stuff, so I said no, but they already are out there, actually.

102 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:05:14pm

re: #83 Freeze Peach

Hmm, that's odd, I don't remember doing that. I've caught Twitter before losing track of follows too. Unblocked you.

I would like to have a face recognition feature, so anybody with a picture of Andrew Breitbart could be automatically blocked.

103 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:05:49pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

That the whole point of the advertiser boycott: To pressure stations and advertisers to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

Thing with the Limbaugh exodus is that there wasn't any organized boycott that occurred. It was a case of customers contacting said advertisers about what he had said during those three days, and they jumped ship rather quickly. This was a case where very little pressure was involved.

104 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:06:16pm

re: #91 Freeze Peach

That's not imposing anything. They can always refuse.

But they're waving sharp pointy dollar bills at the advertisers.

105 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:06:33pm

re: #91 Freeze Peach

That's not imposing anything. They can always refuse.

There you go, using logic again.

The boycotts against Rush's advertisers happen to be working. Many, many more boycotts don't. Look at the failed ones against JC Penney over Ellen and against Archie Comics. The companies in those cases stood by the targets of the boycotts, so nothing happened.

It's a funny thing, the free market.

106 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:07:03pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

Thanks. Many months ago I renamed the account (moved the "_" 's around), maybe that could be related. Well, no matter, now everything works.

107 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:07:46pm

re: #94 Kragar

Money shot. You can't script comedy like this.

Eh, learned it was shopped. Dang it.

I suspect it will not be the last time we see "Rmoney" between now and November...

108 Coracle  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:09:35pm

re: #107 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I suspect it will not be the last time we see "Rmoney" between now and November...

It's a rap song waiting to happen after the convention. I'll be disappointed if someone doesn't jump on it quickly.

109 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:09:50pm

re: #74 Obdicut

I got a chance to show my book to a publisher recently. He quickly rejected it because it's got too much sex in it, an they don't carry books that are that risque.

I should have realized that I was being bitten in the face by an intolerant censorship wolf. I thought that the guy simply had a certain idea of what he wanted from his publishing line, and my book didn't fit in. But apparently, he was some sort of fascist lupine.

Isn't that funny, I wrote a book 10 years ago, and it was rejected because it didn't contain enough sex.

110 Girth  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:11:49pm

Completely OT, but...

A wonderful day here in Northern Michigan, highs in the mid to upper 60's which is about 30 degrees above average. Got my bicycle out and went for a short ride to start the season, about six or seven weeks earlier than any year I can remember. Time to start dropping pounds and building lung capacity.

In order to make sure those goals are not easily reached, I will commence grilling outside and beer drinking shortly.

Lovin' it.

111 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:12:04pm

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

A pie cookbook? /

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:12:24pm

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Isn't that funny, I wrote a book 10 years ago, and it was rejected because it didn't contain enough sex.

Perhaps you two should collaborate, and see if you can hit the Goldilocks zone.

113 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:12:36pm

re: #98 Obdicut

As demonstrated by the failed boycott against Ellen.

I really enjoy Ellen's JCP commercials. They are a lot more enjoyable than the commercials JCP was running not long ago that consisted of people screaming. Those were awful!

114 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:12:49pm

I keep seeing an ad asking if I want to become an ordained minister. It pops up on just about every site I visit.

Is it a message from god? Should I become an ordained minister?
If it didn't cost so much and take so long, I probably would.

Hmm. Father B_Sharp doesn't sound half bad.

115 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:13:26pm

re: #114 b_sharp

I got ordained a long time ago but I think my god lapsed.

116 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:13:45pm

re: #111 Freeze Peach

A pie cookbook? /

I was gonna guess that it was a technical journal.

117 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:13:49pm

re: #111 Freeze Peach

A pie cookbook? /

Pie cookbooks are practically porno!

Eat pie--have sex.
Have sex--eat pie.
Eat pie--better than sex.

118 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:14:57pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm fairly sure the camps attract predators.

This doesn't mean 'they are bad', or 'they are good'. But a setting like that is attractive to a rapist, a thief...a whole lot of less-than-savory people.

No doubt. I am just saying nothing was going to stop this guy from raping again as long as he was not incarcerated. He would find a victim somewhere.

119 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:15:04pm

re: #114 b_sharp

I keep seeing an ad asking if I want to become an ordained minister. It pops up on just about every site I visit.

Is it a message from god? Should I become an ordained minister?
If it didn't cost so much and take so long, I probably would.

Hmm. Father B_Sharp doesn't sound half bad.

Oh, crap, my post was off topic and about the wrong pile of bullshit. It should have been more Hofftian in nature.

120 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:15:14pm

re: #95 erik_t

So you are against using one's thoughts to modify the world around them. I must only assume that you live inside a sound/light-proof bubble or deep dark cave, insulated from everything and everyone in order to avoid sharing your ideas and potentially changing the thought processes of someone around you.

One also wonders why you post here. I know us peons don't matter for shit, but what if one of the other posters owns a company?

Because I've done a lot to help Charles and the LGF community for many years. Even though I don't agree with the current politics of most readers here these days I still spend time here to learn about what people are thinking. LGF has always been changing, Maybe I'll like what comes next better. I hope this doesn't cause you too inconvenience.

121 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:15:55pm

re: #115 Obdicut

I got ordained a long time ago but I think my god lapsed.

Maybe he just went on vacation or is taking time off to be with family?

122 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:16:26pm

re: #111 Freeze Peach

A pie cookbook? /

Hair or cream pie?

123 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:16:36pm

re: #114 b_sharp

I keep seeing an ad asking if I want to become an ordained minister. It pops up on just about every site I visit.

Is it a message from god? Should I become an ordained minister?
If it didn't cost so much and take so long, I probably would.

Hmm. Father B_Sharp doesn't sound half bad.

I ordain you by the will of Crom. Now go forth and study the riddle of steel.

124 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:16:43pm

re: #110 Girth

Completely OT, but...

A wonderful day here in Northern Michigan, highs in the mid to upper 60's which is about 30 degrees above average. Got my bicycle out and went for a short ride to start the season, about six or seven weeks earlier than any year I can remember. Time to start dropping pounds and building lung capacity.

In order to make sure those goals are not easily reached, I will commence grilling outside and beer drinking shortly.

Lovin' it.

I trust you inflated the tires and oiled the chain before you took off?

125 Girth  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:18:49pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

I trust you inflated the tires and oiled the chain before you took off?

Yes indeedily-doodily.

Planning on buying a new road bike in a couple months. Can't wait.

126 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:19:07pm

re: #118 blueraven

No doubt. I am just saying nothing was going to stop this guy from raping again as long as he was not incarcerated. He would find a victim somewhere.

As long as he stays away from being stabby, because if he doesn't then *that'll be proof he's all Occupy.

*The Occupy bifecta.

127 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:21:14pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

I trust you inflated the tires and oiled the chain before you took off?

Oops, he oiled the tires and inflated the chain.

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:21:33pm

re: #122 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Hair or cream pie?

American pie.

129 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:23:50pm

re: #128 Freeze Peach

American pie.

I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere about coming of age or a crack about the American wet dream.

130 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:24:09pm

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

The International Criminal Court will on Wednesday deliver its first verdict, 10 years after it opened with promises of holding tyrants to account and providing swift justice for victims of crimes against humanity.

131 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:26:13pm

re: #106 Freeze Peach

Thanks. Many months ago I renamed the account (moved the "_" 's around), maybe that could be related. Well, no matter, now everything works.

"_"

o_0

"_"

132 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:26:42pm

re: #131 b_sharp

"_"

o_0

"_"

'_'

133 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:26:47pm

So much for religious beliefs being the keystone to their argument

Wisconsin Assembly Bans Private Health Insurance Plans From Offering Abortion Coverage

The Republican-controlled Wisconsin state Assembly passed a bill banning private insurance plans from covering abortions except in cases “of rape, incest or when the health of the mother is at risk.” The GOP-backed legislation already had passed the state Senate, and it cleared the House early Wednesday morning by a 61-34 vote.

Democrats argued the law would create more burdens for women seeking abortions and another unnecessary measure continuing a “war on women.” But GOP state Rep. Joel Kleefisch disagreed. “What about the rights of the women who have not yet been born?” he asked. And the bill’s Republican sponsor framed it as a moral issue:

134 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:26:54pm

re: #129 b_sharp

I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere about coming of age or a crack about the American wet dream.

It would probably be pretty flaky...

135 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:28:27pm

re: #132 Freeze Peach

'_'

You woke me up for that?

136 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:29:17pm

This guy wants to be a new German Kaiser.

Image: picture.jpg

[Link: www.zeit.de...]

137 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:29:38pm

re: #135 b_sharp

'.'

138 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:29:50pm

re: #133 Kragar

So much for religious beliefs being they keystone to their argument

Wisconsin Assembly Bans Private Health Insurance Plans From Offering Abortion Coverage

This is about private insurance policies, right? Entirely voluntary, not mandated by any government policy?

And they want to allow the government to interfere with it.

They really are letting us know what is behind their agenda.

139 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:32:39pm

The title of the last thread kind of triggered a question in my noggin;

How do they prove they aren't having sex - the absence of penis skid marks?

Can you tell how often a woman has sex by the type or shape of the skid marks?

140 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:33:32pm

re: #136 Freeze Peach

This guy wants to be a new German Kaiser.

Image: picture.jpg

[Link: www.zeit.de...]

He needs to get his teeth cleaned first.

141 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:34:07pm

re: #137 Freeze Peach

'.'

*^*

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:34:47pm

The system is fucked up.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Rick Santorum's delegate haul in Mississippi and Alabama? Thirty-two, with just over 300,000 votes cast on his behalf.
Mitt Romney's delegate haul in American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, Northern Marianas Islands and Guam? Thirty-four, with 1,129 votes cast on his behalf (70, 104, 740 and 215 votes respectively).

Oh, and Romney also got 25 delegates from Mississippi and Alabama. He even got more delegates in Mississippi than Rick Santorum, despite Santorum winning the popular vote. But he was a little more efficient about things in the U.S. territories, getting one delegate for every 33 votes cast. In the southern states, he only got one delegate for every 10,581 votes. That's 321 times less efficient than Romney's island victories. And he spent about $2.5 million more doing it.

143 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:35:15pm

re: #139 b_sharp

Just have private detectives follow 'em. Not kidding, companies used to do that.

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:35:16pm

re: #141 b_sharp

*^*

You've been in swimming pool?

145 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:35:36pm

re: #136 Freeze Peach

This guy wants to be a new German Kaiser.

Image: picture.jpg

[Link: www.zeit.de...]

Prinz Philip Kiril von Preußen

wirklich?

Freeze Peach

are you sure you're not the notorious French Breeze?

146 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:39:36pm

re: #144 Freeze Peach

You've been in swimming pool?

Hey, it's cold here.

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:40:36pm

pew pew pew

[Link: www.people-press.org...]

Mitt Romney has retaken a significant lead nationally in the race for the Republican presidential nomination, even as he has fallen further behind Barack Obama in a general election matchup. Moreover, Obama’s own job approval rating has reached 50% for the first time since last May, shortly after the killing of Osama bin Laden.

148 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:40:44pm

re: #136 Freeze Peach

This guy wants to be a new German Kaiser.

Image: picture.jpg

[Link: www.zeit.de...]

There is some background to this: namely that the most recent German President (an almost entirely ceremonial position with no actual political authority or power) just reisgned in ignomy over some pathetic bribery charges.

His predecessor resigned in a huff over the treatment he got from the press over some off-the-cuff remarks about the role of the German military in Afghanistan.

So there are people who would like to reinstate a ceremonial, constitutional Monarch.

One thing that I point out to the occasional monarchists I encounter here (there are a handful) is that while many nations have a royal family and/or a royal tradition going back centuries, modern Germany only had a Kaiser for a bried perios (1871-1918), and he was considered a comic figure and a laughingstock, not only by most of Europe, but by many of his subjects.

149 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:42:32pm

re: #71 Targetpractice

Indeed, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

Amen. It's unbelievable that Republicans and conservatives have devolved so far as to try invoking the stupid "Amendment Zero" myth. This is my term for the idea that the First Amendment guarantees freedom from opposition and criticism, as well as the right to an audience and the right to be taken seriously. It does no such thing, and neither does any other rational concept of free speech. It was stupid when Dixie Chickistas invoked it a few years ago and it's at least as stupid now.
Rush Limbaugh has a right to run his mouth all he likes. He does not have a right to have others pay for it. They can withdraw their support for any reason they like or no reason at all. To imply otherwise is to pretend they don't have a right to their own money. Surely this should be anathema to conservatives, but the chief bloviationists can count on their audience not to think it through even that far.

150 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:43:11pm

re: #142 Freeze Peach

The system is fucked up.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

It is an internal party system, it does not have to be consistent or representative.
Remember that a lot of the delegates are not elected at all but appointed by the party leadership.

151 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:43:30pm

re: #148 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

There is some background to this: namely that the most recent German President (an almost entirely ceremonial position with no actual political authority or power) just reisgned in ignomy over some pathetic bribery charges.

His predecessor resigned in a huff over the treatment he got from the press over some off-the-cuff remarks about the role of the German military in Afghanistan.

So there are people who would like to reinstate the Monarch.

One thing that I poiont out to the occasional monarchists I encounter here (there are a handful) is that while many nations have a royal family and/or a royal tradition going back centuries, modern Germany only had a Kaiser for a bried perios (1871-1918), and he was considered a comic figure and a laughingstock, not only by most of Europe, but by many of his subjects.

Shh, don't invoke Kaiser Söze.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:45:05pm

re: #150 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I know, but still fucked up.

153 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:45:42pm

re: #151 b_sharp

Shh, don't invoke Kaiser Söze.

Also, don't mention Herostrates.

154 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:46:40pm

Dana Loesch's husband calls Soledad O'Brien "anti-Semitic."

155 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:46:54pm

Romney Leads GOP Contest, Trails in Matchup with Obama:

[Link: www.people-press.org...]

156 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:47:42pm

re: #153 Freeze Peach

Also, don't mention Herostrates.

I Googled the name. It didn't help.

157 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:47:43pm

Oops, here's the post by Loesch - he blocked me on Twitter, by the way.

158 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:49:31pm

re: #151 b_sharp

Shh, don't invoke Kaiser Söze.

And don't mention the (Franco-Prussian) War!!!

159 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:51:09pm

re: #152 Freeze Peach

I know, but still fucked up.

I recall that the Democratic party reformed and streamlined their nominating process in the 60's to make it more representative. But heck, this is what Freedom and Democracy are all about.

You don't have to vote GOP.

160 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:53:07pm

re: #153 Freeze Peach

Also, don't mention Herostrates.

The first rule about burning down an Ancient Wonder of the World is you don't talk about burning down an Ancient Wonder of the World.

161 recusancy  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:56:16pm

re: #40 Freeze Peach

Good riddance with Sharpton and Maher. Know nothing about the other guy except that he is apparently some famous comedian.

Seriously watch him. Best comic since George Carlin and Richard Pryor.

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:56:34pm

re: #157 Charles Johnson

Oops, here's the post by Loesch - he blocked me on Twitter, by the way.

Perhaps I'm just missing something here. Perhaps he is not just playing the antisemitism card, thus cheapening the term. Perhaps there is something Soledad said beyond (allegedly) calling Pollak a racist. Perhaps...

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:57:12pm

re: #161 recusancy

Everybody praises him, from KT to you, so I guess I'll have to.

164 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:57:17pm

re: #40 Freeze Peach

Good riddance with Sharpton and Maher. Know nothing about the other guy except that he is apparently some famous comedian.

Youtube Video
165 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:57:58pm

re: #157 Charles Johnson

Oops, here's the post by Loesch - he blocked me on Twitter, by the way.

Um, did she have an actual example of antisemitism or is this another case of factual dissonance?

166 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:01:25pm

Ann Coulter: GOP has a ‘problem with charlatans’ like Sarah Palin

“And just a more corporate problem is I think our party and particularly our movement, the conservative movement, does have more of a problem with con men and charlatans than the Democratic Party,” Coulter continued. “I mean, the incentives seem to be set up to allow people, as long as you have a band of a few million fanatical followers, you can make money. The Democrats have managed to figure out how not to do that.”

“Dennis Kucinich, he’s a nut, he has fanatical followers, [but] he doesn’t gets a show on MSNBC. He doesn’t get any kind of gig on MSNBC. He’s road kill. Howard Dean doesn’t get a show. Howard Dean was fairly respectable for a Democrat. No, you embarrass us and drag this thing out, and you are finished in the Democratic Party.”

She noted that Republicans had been asked to sign a number of controversial pledges, such as Grover Norquist’s anti-tax pledge and The Family Leader’s marriage pledge. But the only pledge, Coulter joked, that she would support was one that said: “If I lose the nomination, I pledge I will not take a gig with Fox News or write a book.”

167 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:02:31pm

re: #163 Freeze Peach

Youtube Video
168 Lidane  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:03:06pm

re: #166 Kragar

Ann Coulter: GOP has a ‘problem with charlatans’ like Sarah Palin

Cue the wingnuts calling Ann a RINO in 3...2...1...

169 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:03:39pm

re: #166 Kragar

Ann Coulter: GOP has a ‘problem with charlatans’ like Sarah Palin

cat fight!!!

170 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:03:47pm

re: #166 Kragar

Ann Coulter: GOP has a ‘problem with charlatans’ like Sarah Palin

Pot. Kettle. Black.

171 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:04:19pm

re: #170 Targetpractice

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

172 recusancy  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:05:03pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Because I've done a lot to help Charles and the LGF community for many years. Even though I don't agree with the current politics of most readers here these days I still spend time here to learn about what people are thinking. LGF has always been changing, Maybe I'll like what comes next better. I hope this doesn't cause you too inconvenience.

You're definitely not lacking in self-esteem.

173 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:07:13pm

re: #166 Kragar

is she off her meds?

174 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:07:16pm

Monumental Question: Did Signers of the Declaration and Constitution Finance a Bible for Every American Family?

Because thats what David Barton told Kirk Cameron in his new movie:

Kirk Cameron: What are these?

David Barton: This is a family Bible done in 1798.

Barton: This Bible was funded by about a dozen signers of the Constitution and signers of the Declaration as well as by President John Adams and Vice-President Thomas Jefferson. They’re the guys that put up the financial backing to do this Bible.

Cameron: Funded by signers of the Declaration…

Barton: and Constitution

Cameron: and Constitution

Barton: yeah, Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution, John Dickinson, signer of the Constitution, you had so many of the signers who were part of this, you had Alexander Hamilton helped fund this Bible.

Cameron: Because they wanted families to gather around the Bible…

Barton: They wanted the Word of God out to every family.

Cameron: Because they believed that would make for a better country.

Barton: Makes for a better country, makes for a better faith. And again, this is a product of our atheist, agnostic, deist Founding Fathers, or at least, that’s who we’re been told they were today, When you see this stuff, you go wait a minute. These guys…why would any atheist, agnostic, or deist promote the Word of God, fund it and want it distributed to every family and everyone in America? Why would they fund a Bible that you can take and give out to your neighbors, and evangelize them, it doesn’t make sense. Now, on the other hand, if these guys happened to be Christians, that makes a lot of sense.

175 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:07:37pm

re: #148 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

modern Germany only had a Kaiser for a brief period (1871-1918)

well this is certainly true, but the kaisers came from a long line of kings of prussia, a dynamic nation that had been expanding aggresively for some time, so that the short lived german empire could really be thought of as a prussian hegemony over the various german states

176 Kragar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:08:26pm

re: #173 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

is she off her meds?

If anyone knows about conservative grifters, it would be Ann.

177 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:10:10pm

re: #175 engineer cat

well this is certainly true, but the kaisers came from a long line of kings of prussia, a dynamic nation that had been expanding aggresively for some time, so that the short lived german empire could really be thought of as a prussian hegemony over the various german states

Which was something that a lot of German states only grudgingly accepted...

And he really was a comic-opera figure with his pointy moustaches and plumed helmet.

Not to mention his pathetic attempt at taking on the Royal Navy in 1916...

178 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:12:49pm

re: #176 Kragar

If anyone knows about conservative grifters, it would be Ann.

Maybe she's pissed at Caribou Barbie because she's no longer Fox News' go to for inane "facts" and utter bullshit.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:13:58pm

re: #174 Kragar

He is lying about Jefferson so blatantly...

180 jaunte  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:14:06pm

The Daily Caller is getting a bit of well-deserved mockery today:
[Link: twitter.com...]

181 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:15:31pm

re: #174 Kragar

Monumental Question: Did Signers of the Declaration and Constitution Finance a Bible for Every American Family?

Because thats what David Barton told Kirk Cameron in his new movie:

What a buffoon. Barton misses a very important point: They did this as private citizens. Nobody pretends the founders didn't espouse Christian beliefs or believe in the value of Christian ethics.

182 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:16:22pm

re: #181 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

What a buffoon. Barton misses a very important point: They did this as private citizens. Nobody pretends the founders didn't espouse Christian beliefs or believe in the value of Christian ethics.

And those ethics compel good Christians to impose their beliefs on an entire nation.

/

183 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:16:34pm

re: #180 jaunte

The Daily Caller is getting a bit of well-deserved mockery today:
[Link: twitter.com...]

What is that about specifically?

184 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:20:18pm

Speaking of MBFs, I see that Romm is taking on the NYT for more of their usual approach:

False Balance Lives At The New York Times

But, the NYT has often done this with the issue of climate change, as well as other issues that are political hot topics. I think the NYT editors are so afraid of being called out for alleged "liberalism" that they just automatically insert wingnut (in this case CEI) talking points for preemption.

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:20:35pm

Hey all!

It's a bright, sunny and warmish day in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland! And I am going to post this again, because is is just too cute not to:

Image: 425812_3470941540371_1476104405_3200892_1004249253_n.jpg

How is everyone?

186 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:20:57pm

re: #177 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Which was something that a lot of German states only grudgingly accepted...

And he really was a comic-opera figure with his pointy moustaches and plumed helmet.

Not to mention his pathetic attempt at taking on the Royal Navy in 1916...

Most people seem to associate the term 'kaiser' with Wilhelm II, who was the last emperor of the 1871-1918 German Empire. But he was only the third Kaiser of that group since he was preceeded by his father (who only ruled for 99 days) and his grandfather. And they were the Kings of Prussia as well.

All sorts of interesting European politics in those days.

187 jaunte  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:22:02pm

re: #183 blueraven

What is that about specifically?

It's this:
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

188 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:22:38pm

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Almost one in three Republicans, 30 percent, say Limbaugh should be fired for the remarks.

189 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:22:57pm

re: #185 ggt

Hey all!

It's a bright, sunny and warmish day in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland! And I am going to post this again, because is is just too cute not to:

Image: 425812_3470941540371_1476104405_3200892_1004249253_n.jpg

How is everyone?

A so-so day. Time to head home and feed my feline overlord. I see that the one in the picture is researching on the use of other primates to replace us with.

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:23:09pm

Oh, glory. First my cousin linked to a health article of dubious legitimacy (ascertained by the fact that the page also offers books on "the truth" about 9-11), but now there's a comment from a friend of a friend telling my friend not to get a tetanus shot because it contains mercury.

Because, you know, lockjaw is a very trivial thing.

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:23:48pm

re: #181 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

He is saying that Jefferson was a traditional Bible-believing Christian. He should know it's not true.

192 darthstar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:24:06pm

re: #185 ggt

Hey all!

It's a bright, sunny and warmish day in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland! And I am going to post this again, because is is just too cute not to:

Image: 425812_3470941540371_1476104405_3200892_1004249253_n.jpg

How is everyone?

This is why you can't trust monkeys to make foie gras...but it's still cute.

193 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:25:11pm

re: #192 darthstar

This is why you can't trust monkeys to make foie gras...but it's still cute.

How do you know tiger foie gras is not tasty?

194 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:25:56pm

re: #156 b_sharp

Try Herostratus. Or Herostratos. (There's one mention that I could find of that name, in a 4th century Latin dictionary. And Checkhov mentions him in one of his short stories (Tolstoy i tonkii), so all Russians everywhere know the name.)

195 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:27:08pm

#186 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Most people seem to associate the term 'kaiser' with Wilhelm II, who was the last emperor of the 1871-1918 German Empire. But he was only the third Kaiser of that group since he was preceeded by his father (who only ruled for 99 days) and his grandfather. And they were the Kings of Prussia as well.

All sorts of interesting European politics in those days.

When I see "Kaiser", I think "Czar", then "Caesar". I end-up with this image of Julius in my head.

196 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:27:23pm

re: #186 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Most people seem to associate the term 'kaiser' with Wilhelm II, who was the last emperor of the 1871-1918 German Empire. But he was only the third Kaiser of that group since he was preceeded by his father (who only ruled for 99 days) and his grandfather. And they were the Kings of Prussia as well.

All sorts of interesting European politics in those days.

Prussia did perform one great service to Germany: It united all the 300-odd factious states into one country. They were unable to do so voluntarily after the Revolution of 1848, it took a dominant state to pull them together.

But it also took two world wars, a Cold War and a lot of tribulations to finally make them into the modern, stable and generally exemplary democracy they are today.

197 darthstar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:27:55pm

re: #193 Freeze Peach

How do you know tiger foie gras is not tasty?

Good point...

198 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:28:31pm

re: #189 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A so-so day. Time to head home and feed my feline overlord. I see that the one in the picture is researching on the use of other primates to replace us with.

They will not be left without staff!

199 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:29:06pm

re: #177 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Which was something that a lot of German states only grudgingly accepted...

And he really was a comic-opera figure with his pointy moustaches and plumed helmet.

Not to mention his pathetic attempt at taking on the Royal Navy in 1916...

cowering in port after one defeat! hah!

romans would have never put up with this. romans took over the known world of their time because they never, never gave up

in fact, romans got used to the idea that they would be defeated badly in their first encounter with a powerful enemy. other nations in the ancient world would have given up after a defeat and accepted the victor's gods as superior

but the romans just hunkered down and figured out how to defeat their enemies in the next battle

200 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:29:15pm

re: #195 ggt

#186 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste


When I see "Kaiser", I think "Czar", then "Caesar". I end-up with this image of Julius in my head.

Sarah Palin follows the same mental image chain and ends up with visions of salad.
/

201 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:29:54pm

re: #196 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Prussia did perform one great service to Germany: It united all the 300-odd factious states into one country. They were unable to do so voluntarily after the Revolution of 1848, it took a dominant state to pull them together.

But it also took two world wars, a Cold War and a lot of tribulations to finally make them into the modern, stable and generally exemplary democracy they are today.

My family traces it's ancestry to Bavaria. Should I be protesting Wilhelm?

202 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:30:24pm

re: #191 Freeze Peach

He is saying that Jefferson was a traditional Bible-believing Christian. He should know it's not true.

Wonder if Jefferson ever had plans to distribute a copy of his own personal Bible

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:31:30pm

re: #194 Mercurial

I'm pretty sure b-sharp was joking. Also, we know Herostrates not because of Chekhov; rather, Chekhov's mention shows that Herostrates was a common knowledge.

204 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:31:54pm

re: #193 Freeze Peach

How do you know tiger foie gras is not tasty?

Isn't liver from predators dangerous to eat due to having very large amounts of Vitamin A in it?

205 darthstar  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:31:59pm

re: #195 ggt

#186 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

When I see "Kaiser", I think "Czar", then "Caesar". I end-up with this image of Julius in my head.

I get this one.

206 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:32:18pm

re: #196 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Prussia did perform one great service to Germany: It united all the 300-odd factious states into one country. They were unable to do so voluntarily after the Revolution of 1848, it took a dominant state to pull them together.

But it also took two world wars, a Cold War and a lot of tribulations to finally make them into the modern, stable and generally exemplary democracy they are today.

i read that one of the reasons that the nazis were able to take over was that germans in general didn't really support the idea of a parliamentary democracy under the weimar constitution

207 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:32:34pm

re: #201 ggt

My family traces it's ancestry to Bavaria. Should I be protesting Wilhelm?

You have your own King

208 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:32:41pm

re: #204 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Isn't liver from predators dangerous to eat due to having very large amounts of Vitamin A in it?

Tasty and dangerous are orthogonal :P

209 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:33:29pm

re: #203 Freeze Peach

I'm pretty sure b-sharp was joking. Also, we know Herostrates not because of Chekhov; rather, Chekhov's mention shows that Herostrates was a common knowledge.

A name like that would give one a complex.

210 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:33:45pm

re: #206 engineer cat

i read that one of the reasons that the nazis were able to take over was that germans in general didn't really support the idea of a parliamentary democracy under the weimar constitution

Democracy got off to a shaky start there, especially once the economy collapsed during the Great Depression.

One of the changes they instituted after WWII was that parties need to have at least 5% of the vote to be seated in Parliament, the Weimar Republic was so full of splinter parites that it was impossible to form a stable coalition.

211 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:35:00pm

Anthropology controversy of the day:

Later Pleistocene human evolution in East Asia remains poorly understood owing to a scarcity of well described, reliably classified and accurately dated fossils. Southwest China has been identified from genetic research as a hotspot of human diversity, containing ancient mtDNA and Y-DNA lineages, and has yielded a number of human remains thought to derive from Pleistocene deposits. We have prepared, reconstructed, described and dated a new partial skull from a consolidated sediment block collected in 1979 from the site of Longlin Cave (Guangxi Province). We also undertook new excavations at Maludong (Yunnan Province) to clarify the stratigraphy and dating of a large sample of mostly undescribed human remains from the site.

Methodology/Principal Findings
 We undertook a detailed comparison of cranial, including a virtual endocast for the Maludong calotte, mandibular and dental remains from these two localities. Both samples probably derive from the same population, exhibiting an unusual mixture of modern human traits, characters probably plesiomorphic for later Homo, and some unusual features. We dated charcoal with AMS radiocarbon dating and speleothem with the Uranium-series technique and the results show both samples to be from the Pleistocene-Holocene transition: ~14.3-11.5 ka.

Conclusions/Significance
 Our analysis suggests two plausible explanations for the morphology sampled at Longlin Cave and Maludong. First, it may represent a late-surviving archaic population, perhaps paralleling the situation seen in North Africa as indicated by remains from Dar-es-Soltane and Temara, and maybe also in southern China at Zhirendong. Alternatively, East Asia may have been colonised during multiple waves during the Pleistocene, with the Longlin-Maludong morphology possibly reflecting deep population substructure in Africa prior to modern humans dispersing into Eurasia.

And no, no one is asking Dave Barton or Jim Hoft for their opinions.

212 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:35:55pm

Apparently nothing is occupying Hoft's cranium. It's an empty shell and he's functioning purely with his cortex.

213 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:36:48pm

re: #206 engineer cat

i read that one of the reasons that the nazis were able to take over was that germans in general didn't really support the idea of a parliamentary democracy under the weimar constitution

Well they were a Federal Republic under the kaisers in the Empire as well. So there seems to be a mixed history there of wanting order and also wanting the representations and freedoms of democracy.

Like I said, interesting politics. One does not normally see Bismarck as a major social reformer, but he was one.

And as an additional aside another major shaker who helped what became Germany come together was Napoleon. He also eliminated a bunch of little duchies and principalities in building his version of the German Confederation.

214 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:39:08pm

re: #208 Freeze Peach

Tasty and dangerous are orthogonal :P

I'll pass on the pufferfish foie gras regardless of how tasty you tell me it is.

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:40:54pm

re: #207 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

You have your own King

Not my king. I don't have a king. I'm an American.

European Royalty has a tendency towards psychosis, as I understand it.

216 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:41:13pm

re: #213 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Like I said, interesting politics. One does not normally see Bismarck as a major social reformer, but he was one.

Bismarck instituted a lot of his reforms (social security, public education) in order to pre-empt the socialists.

It worked.

217 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:41:29pm

I met a man today with a Hitler mustache.

You gotta wonder.

218 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:42:00pm

re: #215 ggt

Not my king. I don't have a king. I'm an American.

European Royalty has a tendency towards psychosis, as I understand it.

Then King Obama is your king. Or so I've been told by Jim Hoft and Andrew Breitbart./

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:42:21pm

re: #217 Obdicut

I met a man today with a Hitler mustache.

You gotta wonder.

Did he have Brazilian accent?

220 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:42:58pm

re: #215 ggt

Not my king. I don't have a king. I'm an American.
European Royalty has a tendency towards psychosis, as I understand it.

Ludwig II of Bavaria was a total nut case. He built the romantic castle of Neuschwanstein, which was of course the model for Cinderella's Castle at Disneyland.

So in a way, he is our symbolic Dream Prince...

221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:43:25pm

re: #213 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Well they were a Federal Republic under the kaisers in the Empire as well. So there seems to be a mixed history there of wanting order and also wanting the representations and freedoms of democracy.

Like I said, interesting politics. One does not normally see Bismarck as a major social reformer, but he was one.

And as an additional aside another major shaker who helped what became Germany come together was Napoleon. He also eliminated a bunch of little duchies and principalities in building his version of the German Confederation.

Actually, Napoleon is the reason my ancestor emigrated to America. He, my ancestor, was conscripted to fight for Napoleon and was one of the few survivors from his village of the Debacle in Moscow.

Kinda kool my family has kept the records and knows the history. His grave is still in the small town he settled in, original headstone in German and everything.

222 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:43:36pm

re: #172 recusancy

You're definitely not lacking in self-esteem.

Sorry but it does irk me to see some of the attempts to drive out or alienate the more moderate members of LGF, especially the ones who've contributed a lot of material and behind the scenes support for the community and related projects.

223 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:43:53pm

Something in which both Jim Hoft and Dave Barton will be interested in:

Israeli court clears 2 of faking Jesus-era box

Is the purported burial box of Jesus' brother James fake or authentic?

Seven years of trial, testimony from dozens of experts and a 475-page verdict Wednesday failed to come up with an answer.

A Jerusalem judge, citing reasonable doubt, acquitted Israeli collector Oded Golan, who was charged with forging the inscription on the box once hailed as the first physical link to Christ.

Golan said the ruling put an end to what he portrayed as a 10-year smear campaign against him. Hershel Shanks, editor of the Washington-based Biblical Archaeology, said he was delighted, insisting the burial box, or ossuary, is authentic and a "prized artifact to the world of Christianity."

[...]

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:44:06pm

re: #220 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Ludwig II of Bavaria was a total nut case. He built the romantic castle of Neuschwanstein, which was of course the model for Cinderella's Castle at Disneyland.

So in a way, he is our symbolic Dream Prince...

Well, he chose not to have a Princess, so . . . .

225 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:44:39pm

re: #217 Obdicut

I met a man today with a Hitler mustache.

You gotta wonder.

The toothbrush moustache was a political statement in its time: it was seen as the "workingman's moustache", as opposed to the fancy combed, curled and waxed monstosities that more well-to-do European gentlemen were sporting at the time.

226 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:45:20pm

re: #217 Obdicut

I met a man today with a Hitler mustache.

You gotta wonder.

Did he copy the one from his Cat Overlord?

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:45:25pm

re: #223 freetoken

A repost of the earlier comment today:

It doesn't prove the ossuary to be authentic, but I don't see what's the big deal is. James is mentioned as Jesus' brother by Josephus, and this passage was quoted as early as 2nd century by Origen (who also wrote that Josephus did not believe Jesus to be the Christ, thus showing he had an access to the un-interpolated version).

228 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:45:54pm

[Scratches head.]

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:46:08pm

re: #228 Gus

[Scratches head.]

fleas?

230 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:46:24pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Are you referring to yourself as 'moderate'?

I don't support any effort to 'drive you out'. I do think that all the shit you get for your passive-aggressive, lame bullshit you should take with better grace. You throw out half-assed arguments and claim you want to 'discuss' things, yet tend to vanish or just restate your assertions rather than ever forming an argument.

You can't be driven out of here unless you want to be. I'd much rather you just made better arguments.

231 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:46:36pm

re: #229 ggt

fleas?

Sand.

232 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:46:57pm

re: #229 ggt

fleas?

Martyr cookie crumbs.

//

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:47:08pm

re: #228 Gus

[Scratches head.]

[joins in scratching Gus' head while a dobro plays somewhere near]

234 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:47:48pm

re: #179 Freeze Peach

He is lying about Jefferson so blatantly...

Jefferson would only have agreed to distribute this Bible...

235 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:47:59pm

ignatz cat loves to sit outside on rainy days like this in his puddy bed under the eaves on the deck

236 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:49:08pm

Finally, here is a review of a new book by Chris Stringer that sounds like it will help those trying to understand recent human origins stories:


The only humans left on Earth

And, there is a Kindle edition.

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:50:16pm

Yes, he does mean *that*.

Image: romneymeasureshis_briansnyder_reuters.jpg

238 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:50:31pm

Oh, and Jim HOft and Dave Barton weren't consulted by Stringer.

239 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:50:41pm

re: #191 Freeze Peach

He is saying that Jefferson was a traditional Bible-believing Christian. He should know it's not true.

Yes, that much is obvious. Barton represents a new level in idiocrat discourse. He uses the usual straw men, in this case that advocates of secular government claim the founders had no use for Christianity of any kind. He goes beyond that into outright non-sequitur by drawing conclusions that are not supported by even his version of the facts. In this case, certain founders' involvement in a Bible publishing venture is supposed to "prove" that they actually supported theocratic government.
He has done this before, as in his claim that Jesus opposed the minimum wage. He uses the parable of the vineyards to "prove" this, since Jesus cites the example of workers who have agreed to a particular wage. This has nothing to do with a minimum wage or any analogous concept, except that the agreed wage was 1 denarius, the prescribed minimum for one day's work. The latter point which would actually rebut; indeed, destroy; his conclusion.

240 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:52:58pm

re: #227 Freeze Peach

I suspect those who fret over the perpetual virginity of Mary are more concerned about this kind of stuff.

To me, it's just another example of how hyper-religious consumers in English speaking countries are funding a large industry of probably fraudulent "antiquities". I put the recent book and news items from Tabor and Jacobovici in the same category.

241 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:53:54pm

re: #237 Freeze Peach

Yes, he does mean *that*.

Image: romneymeasureshis_briansnyder_reuters.jpg

"Uhm, the GOP's remaining credibility! The number of Gingrich supporters remaining! The distance between you and the Koch Brothers! Damnit, you suck at charades!"

242 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:55:27pm

re: #239 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

Barton is vile; his entire ouvre is blatant misrepresentation. I'm not even a Christian and what he does with the New Testament makes my blood pressure rise. That he's the go-to "historian" for so many of the Religious Right (and their political flunkies) is one of those discomfiting facts that makes me feel like I should have an exit plan from the country.

243 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:56:06pm

I really don't believe in supernatural intervention, but I would seriously fear being struck dead by a falling meteor if I lied about history and abused scripture as much as David Barton does.
No need to take chances.

244 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:56:11pm

re: #239 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

Yes, that much is obvious. Barton represents a new level in idiocrat discourse. He uses the usual straw men, in this case that advocates of secular government claim the founders had no use for Christianity of any kind. He goes beyond into outright non-sequitur by drawing conclusions that are not supported by even his version of the facts. In this case, certain founders' involvement in a Bible publishing venture is supposed to "prove" that they actually supported theocratic government.
He has done this before, as in his claim that Jesus opposed the minimum wage. He uses the parable of the vineyards to "prove" this, since Jesus cites the example of workers who have agreed to a particular wage. This has nothing to do with a minimum wage or any analogous concept, except that the agreed wage was 1 denarius, the prescribed minimum for one day's work. The latter point which would actually rebut; indeed, destroy; his conclusion.

it seems so easy for some people to hallucinate whatever meaning they want into bible passages

me "so, read it, it doesn't say anything about original sin:

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. "

them "it doesn't say anything about original sin, but that's what it means"

245 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:57:08pm

re: #240 freetoken

It's funny, really, how people who should take it on faith worry about these things.

Besides, strictly speaking Yeshua bar Yosef, brother of Yaakov probably wasn't that much of a rare combination.

246 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:58:33pm

re: #242 The Ghost of a Flea

His consumers are unaware, and choose to remain so, of how lacking in credibility Barton has among those who study these issues seriously.

But then again, just look at the WND web page. They mix in snake-oil pill adverts with their regular "news" stories.

This is an old form of doing business, and as I've mentioned here before it is a way to make good money.

Any of us, if we're willing to sear our consciences enough, could enter that business.

Lots of money still left on that table.

247 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:59:17pm

The Intolerant Censorship Wolves is the name of my new christian rock band.

248 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 3:59:58pm

re: #245 Freeze Peach

Besides, strictly speaking Yeshua bar Yosef, brother of Yaakov probably wasn't that much of a rare combination.

And that is the same issue with the Tabor/Jacobovici stuff: Giving extraordinary interpretation to possibly quite common events.

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:01:15pm

re: #246 freetoken

Here's Chris Rodda's book Liars for Jesus available for free at [Link: www.liarsforjesus.com...]

Haven't read it, but may be useful to someone.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:01:37pm

I'm off for a while.

enjoy the evening all!

251 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:02:09pm

Derp!

252 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:03:54pm

re: #251 Gus

Derp!

Chaplain should be kicked out of Fort Bragg and stripped of whatever for incitement against atheists.

253 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:06:04pm

re: #244 engineer cat

My favorite Bible interpretation nuts are the "It's all literal!" ones...who always wield annotated versions of the text in question and fail to notice that the commentator is telling them what passages mean. Hand in glove with this "literalism" is the belief that Revelations will happen exactly as written (...for certain definitions of exactly that aren't exact at all). The seven-headed beast won't rise from the sea and have seven heads...instead Christians with the proper Captain Midnight decoder ring will understand that a certain person is the Beast because they understand how to interpret the allegory precise, literal description.

254 Michael McBacon  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:06:28pm

I've stopped counting how many times the GOP have used the "Scary Black Man" tactic.

255 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:06:32pm

re: #203 Freeze Peach

Common knowledge in Russia because of Chekhov, but very hard to find around here. (I exhausted the research librarians in a large library hunting it down the first time I ran across it. Now if I could find where Chekhov first found it....)

256 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:07:50pm

re: #249 Freeze Peach

Here's Chris Rodda's book Liars for Jesus available for free at [Link: www.liarsforjesus.com...]

Haven't read it, but may be useful to someone.

It's good. It has a sizable section taking apart Barton's many false assertions about the faith of US Presidents (as individuals) and the role of Christianity in the USA's formation.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:07:53pm

re: #255 Mercurial

Common knowledge in Russia because of Chekhov

Again, this is not the case.

258 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:07:55pm

re: #252 Freeze Peach

He needs to be put on list for early retirement. Along with any other budding theocrats within the military.

We need to root them out. Kicking this guy out would be a start. Also, we need much stricter controls on where Chaplains come from, school-wise.

259 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:10:35pm

re: #253 The Ghost of a Flea

During a discusssion of whether the Ten Commandments should be posted in public buildings, Dubya Bush spoke out it favor of it, at which point some smart-assed journalist (who'd probably had a coule of semesters of comparative religion) asked him "Which translation?"

To which Dubya replied, "The standard one."

He did not expound on it, but I suspect me meant the King James version.

260 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:11:37pm

re: #220 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Ludwig II of Bavaria was a total nut case. He built the romantic castle of Neuschwanstein, which was of course the model for Cinderella's Castle at Disneyland.

So in a way, he is our symbolic Dream Prince...

And don't forget his annual wedding bash - Octoberfest!

(oops - his grandpa, Ludwig I getting hitched started that. Still, between the castle & the party you get American ideas pretty completely. )

261 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:12:25pm

re: #259 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

During a discusssion of whether the Ten Commandments should be posted in public buildings, Dubya Bush spoke out it favor of it, at which point some smart-assed journalist (who'd probably had a coule of semesters of comparative religion) asked him "Which translation?"

To which Dubya replied, "The standard one."

He did not expoind on it, but I suspect me meant the King James version.

There are actually two versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible, one is in Exodus and one is in Deuteronomy.

262 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:13:33pm

re: #260 William Barnett-Lewis

And don't forget his annual wedding bash - Octoberfest!

And just to prove how mental he was, they celebrate it in September!

263 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:13:41pm

re: #261 Learned Mother of Zion

The so-called Ritual Decalogue and Ethical Decalogue, which basically almost totally differ.

264 AK-47%  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:14:24pm

re: #261 Learned Mother of Zion

There are actually two versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible, one is in Exodus and one is in Deuteronomy.

Fine, just take five from one and five from the other...

265 blueraven  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:17:01pm

re: #187 jaunte

It's this:
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Ah, OK thanks! LOL!

266 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:17:24pm

re: #254 Michael McBacon

I've stopped counting how many times the GOP have used the "Scary Black Man" tactic.

They're at risk of depleting the Strategic Race-Baiting Reserves.

267 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:21:42pm

re: #266 The Ghost of a Flea

They're at risk of depleting the Strategic Race-Baiting Reserves.

They're always up for "drilling here and drilling now" even if there's nothing there. Just make it up as Hoft did. Which of course is race-baiting. The screen shot reminds me of something one would see at white supremacist web site.

268 freetoken  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:22:53pm

Speaking of idiocy, it seems that the anti-vax movement is mutating into anti-vaxx-because-virus-DNA movement:

Beware! Vaccines will sap and impurity your precious bodily DNA!

269 Gus  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:23:26pm

Oh jeez.

270 dragonath  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:23:36pm

re: #259 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

KIng James also wrote a book called "Daemonology"

Luckily most people don't use that one as a reference anymore.

271 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:23:44pm

re: #264 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Fine, just take five from one and five from the other...

The Lord hath given unto thee these 15...(drops tablet)...oy vey...these 10 Commandments for all to obey!

Youtube Video
272 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:24:58pm

re: #230 Obdicut

Are you referring to yourself as 'moderate'?

I don't support any effort to 'drive you out'. I do think that all the shit you get for your passive-aggressive, lame bullshit you should take with better grace. You throw out half-assed arguments and claim you want to 'discuss' things, yet tend to vanish or just restate your assertions rather than ever forming an argument.

You can't be driven out of here unless you want to be. I'd much rather you just made better arguments.

I'm further left than Obama on many issues, but I'm technically still a moderate.
Many of the things you find outrageous and impossibly confusing (like not supporting the Rush Boycott) are fairly common ideas. You may not agree with them but you should be able to understand them. Playing endless word twisting games looking for a "gotcha" moment isn't very interesting debate. Most of the time I scroll over or restate my previous simple statement in hopes it will sink in.

273 prairiefire  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:25:24pm

re: #203 Freeze Peach

I'm pretty sure b-sharp was joking. Also, we know Herostrates not because of Chekhov; rather, Chekhov's mention shows that Herostrates was a common knowledge.

Do you folks study Chekov, et a,l in primary school?

274 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:27:07pm

re: #270 Beware the Green Dragon!

KIng James also wrote a book called "Daemonology"

Luckily most people don't use that one as a reference anymore.

King James actually was quite the pamphleteer. I can still remember reading an anti-smoking tract he wrote that was quoted in some primary-school level book I had as a kid.

275 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:36:34pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

I don't play endless games with gotcha moments. I ask you straightforward questions, often about your very glaring logical errors or self-contradictions-- and you generally fail to respond to them.

276 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:48:25pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

I see a very large difference. I'm not going to impose my morals on other people. If their employers want to keep them then that's their choice, not mine.

I don't understand what this means.

I'm 100% sure that if I came here advocating for Hamas, you and pretty much everyone else here would be quick to impose your morals on me. As a society, we have a set of morals that we expect anyone who lives here to abide by. If they don't there are consequences—sometimes legal, sometimes social.

LGF has it's own set of morals, and anyone whose conduct falls outside of what's accepted gets piled on. I have a set of personal morals that I impose in my home. I'm sure you do too.

Alouette posted a page titled Zealots Order Jerusalem Restaurant to Sack Female Help. In the source article was this paragraph:

Be Free Israel, a group that advocates religious freedom and pluralism, called for a boycott of the restaurant, and says it plans to demonstrate in front of it tomorrow night.

Is it wrong for them to call for a boycott of the restaurant? Should they just ignore the behavior and hope it goes away?

What about these:

• When we impose sanctions on other countries because we don't like how they operate, is that not imposing our morality?

• When we assist other countries because we support what they're fighting for, is that not helping others impose their morality (and by extension our own) on their opponents?

• Should we just ignore the fundies creeping towards the White House with their eyes on the prize so they can impose their morality on us? I mean, after all, we wouldn't want to impose our morality on them.

• Civil rights...

• Gay marriage rights...

• All the rest of the protections in the Constitution—are all those things not representative of our morality as a nation?

• I think torture, or "enhanced interrogation" if you prefer the euphemism, is immoral, yet the government seems to have condoned it nonetheless.

• I think profiling and a lot of the Patriot Act stuff is not only immoral, but also dangerous, yet it is imposed on me and every other American.

• Many people feel the death penalty is immoral, yet it exists and is imposed.

Where do you draw the lines, KT? When is it okay to impose our morality on others? When it's something we agree with? When it's for the public good? If the latter, then who determines it and based on what?

I believe we can be detached in the sense of being "in the world, but not of the world", but apathy in the face of injustice, or a refusal to call out wrongs and try to right them isn't what that's about. I don't think it's what the Zen masters meant when they spoke of detachment, nor do I think it's what most other spiritual paths mean when they say something similar.

Okaayyy, that turned out way longer than I intended. //

277 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:51:02pm

re: #273 prairiefire

Do you folks study Chekov, et a,l in primary school?

Yes, we study Chekhov in the primary school. However, Herostratos is known not because Chekhov managed to mention him, but because слава Герострата/лавры Герострата (Herostratos' fame/Herostratos' laurels) is a "winged phrase", like "Achilles' tendon" or "Pandora's box". It's a part of culture quite independent of Chekhov's short story. Ephialtes is mentioned in the same breath in "Tolstyj i tonkij", yet you're much more likely to get a proverbial vacant stare when mentioning him than Herostratos - because Ephialtes is not part of any winged word.

278 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:51:37pm

re: #276 CuriousLurker

Okaayyy, that turned out way longer than I intended. //

And every damned word was appropriate, and welcomed.

279 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 4:55:41pm

re: #278 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

And every damned word was appropriate, and welcomed.

Ha! And right on time, as always, I posted when Charles was putting up a new article. #CL #FAIL

280 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:07:12pm

re: #276 CuriousLurker

Good post.

Where do you draw the lines, KT? When is it okay to impose our morality on others? When it's something we agree with? When it's for the public good? If the latter, then who determines it and based on what?

I think it's a matter of degree. Many of the examples you cite such as the civil right's movement are excellent examples of how boycotts can and should be used to create a morally just society. However, in the case of Rush Limbaugh I don't support the effort. What Rush said was shitty but definitely wasn't the worst thing he ever said and probably wasn't even the worst thing he said that week. It's just what people latched onto.
I'm uncomfortable with people declaring themselves the morality police and metting out punishments and financial penalties. When people feel morally empowered things can get out of hand quickly. The victim can easily become the bully. It's human nature.
I've seen comments claiming that if Rush goes off the air then the Dems are going to gain political power once his propaganda machine is silenced. I find that very creepy motivation.
I also see people willing to throw Al Sharpton and Bill Maher under the rightwing bigot bus to keep the pressure up on Rush. I'm also uncomfortable with that. Willing to take collateral damage on an issue like this is a bad precedent to set.
This doesn't just end with Rush, or political commentators. These boycotts go after comedians, artists, musicians too. It's not good for our culture.
In the end Rush's words aren't as powerful as some people imagine. They are not a threat to the fabric of our society. We are stronger than that.

281 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:08:52pm

re: #279 CuriousLurker

Ha! And right on time, as always, I posted when Charles was putting up a new article. #CL #FAIL

We have the thread to ourselves. I'll stick around a bit if you want. I have some time to kill.

282 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:10:28pm

re: #280 Killgore Trout

Heh. As you watch the current election, as you see how many people in the GOP in the south think that miscegenation should be outlawed, you're sure our society is 'stronger than that'.

IN the end, this isn't a principled stand on your part. You're simply saying that the line where you feel society should shun speech is different for you than other people.

I know you've got this scroll-over policy for questions you can't answer, but just in case:

Do you think that if a company advertised with Stormfront, that'd be legitimate reason to boycott them? Stormfront's words obviously are far less powerful than Limbaugh's, far less influential, so I can't really see why.

283 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:22:54pm

re: #280 Killgore Trout

Thanks for taking the time to reply in depth. I don't agree with you on Rush, but it has nothing to do with politics—I'm just sick of the incivility of our public discourse. Have others said worse things in the past? Yeah, but I guess Rush just picked a bad time. I don't have an ounce of pity for him, just as I didn't have any pity for Imus when he made his ugly comments and got in trouble.

I'm uncomfortable with people declaring themselves the morality police and metting out punishments and financial penalties. When people feel morally empowered things can get out of hand quickly. The victim can easily become the bully. It's human nature.

I don't disagree, and I think part of the problem in the current climate is that the GOP is doing it's damnedest to be the morality police. They've even met with some success. I think that might be part of the reason the reaction to what Rush said has been so strong—people are getting increasingly freaked out, so the violence of the pushback is going to be in direct proportion to people's fears of having a right-wing Christian morality imposed on everyone.

284 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:24:41pm

re: #283 CuriousLurker

In other words, it's Culture Wars 2.0, and only one side can "win".

285 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:32:45pm

re: #283 CuriousLurker

I think that might be part of the reason the reaction to what Rush said has been so strong—people are getting increasingly freaked out, so the violence of the pushback is going to be in direct proportion to people's fears of having a right-wing Christian morality imposed on everyone

That's why I personally have backed off a bit. I'm not happy with a lot of what the Republicans are up to these days but I'm growing increasingly wary of the outrageous outrages, questionable stories and overblown rhetoric. I see a lot of fear and hate. Some of it justified but I get more cautious when I see people motivated by fear and hate. I think it's fine to hate somebody like Rush but I don't think he should be feared.
In regards to winning the culture wars: I'd like to see us end up with a culture where people speak freely, openly and outrageously. I don't think that's going to happen if either side "wins".

286 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:32:59pm

Anyone here still? I'm going to respond to Killgore's (paraphrase) about the peeps who've been pushed out, regardless of their great contributions to this blog....

Maybe I missed the pushing, but to me, they just don't like the majority tone of the blog. OK, fine. No whining. Find another. Or as Killgore said, (again, paraphrased from memory) wait till it turns back. (very presumptuous, if I dare say)

287 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:45:26pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

In regards to winning the culture wars: I'd like to see us end up with a culture where people speak freely, openly and outrageously. I don't think that's going to happen if either side "wins".

Why are you against people speaking to advertisers, then?

288 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:49:16pm

re: #287 Obdicut

And there aren't two sides.

Oh never fucking mind, basically: All the previous holes in your logic are still there. You've never bothered to even acknowledge them, much less try to deal with them.

Luckily, your assertions of apathy will be-- almost-ironically-- ignored.

289 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 5:51:52pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

That's why I personally have backed off a bit. I'm not happy with a lot of what the Republicans are up to these days but I'm growing increasingly wary of the outrageous outrages, questionable stories and overblown rhetoric. I see a lot of fear and hate. Some of it justified but I get more cautious when I see people motivated by fear and hate. I think it's fine to hate somebody like Rush but I don't think he should be feared.
In regards to winning the culture wars: I'd like to see us end up with a culture where people speak freely, openly and outrageously. I don't think that's going to happen if either side "wins".

Yay! Finally an area where we're in agreement. ;)

Fear & hate is poisonous. I'm not sure how we go about dialing things back when the whole thing has been turned into a zero-sum game in which fellow Americans are seen as enemies instead of compatriots who simply have different opinions and with whom we can work to reach a satisfactory compromise for all.

Personally, I try not to participate in pile-ons of LGF members in good standing, because when I'm angry and screaming at someone I can't hear what they're trying to say and we'll never find any common ground that way. There are days when I would like to, but I (mostly) resist. It's not easy, because sometimes I have some really biting snark right on the tip of my tongue. I don't resist the impulse becuase of any nobility of character mind you, I do it because I know I'll be reminded of it later, heh. Lizards have elephant memories.

So anyway, while we can each do our part on a small, local level to dial things back, I think we still need our religious, political, and other leaders with national influence to stand up and speak out—loudly and firmly. Otherwise we're going to fracture and implode. I don't want that. I love us as we are/were. I don't want to see other Americans as my enemy.

290 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:04:37pm

re: #289 CuriousLurker

I don't want to see other Americans as my enemy.

You're pretty patriotic for a Muslim.
/C'mon, I kid because I love
//Seriously, Excellent post.

291 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:08:43pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

You're pretty patriotic for a Muslim.
/C'mon, I kid because I love
//Seriously, Excellent post.

Ha!—you fell for the taqiyya, you old cynic. //

Seriously, thanks. I love you too. ;)

292 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:13:44pm

Now it's time to jump on my magic carpet and ride on out of here for tonight.

*grabs scimitar, whistles to genie to get back in lamp, and—WHOOSH—out the door she flies*

293 prairiefire  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:39:01pm

re: #277 Freeze Peach

Yes, we study Chekhov in the primary school. However, Herostratos is known not because Chekhov managed to mention him, but because слава Герострата/лавры Герострата (Herostratos' fame/Herostratos' laurels) is a "winged phrase", like "Achilles' tendon" or "Pandora's box". It's a part of culture quite independent of Chekhov's short story. Ephialtes is mentioned in the same breath in "Tolstyj i tonkij", yet you're much more likely to get a proverbial vacant stare when mentioning him than Herostratos - because Ephialtes is not part of any winged word.

I have always admired the Russian turn of a phrase! I think Tolstoy's "Anna Karnina" is one of the greatest novels written.

294 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:41:54pm

re: #293 prairiefire

Have you read The Master and Margarita?

295 prairiefire  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:45:03pm

re: #294 Obdicut

Have you read The Master and Margarita?

No, but it does look intriguing:[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

How is your lovely wife? She survived the cadavers and has moved onto a new level?

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 6:53:37pm

re: #295 prairiefire

Read it, it's great.

297 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 7:52:03pm

re: #295 prairiefire

Yes, she just kicked the hell out of her HemOnc exam. Since she stopped going to most lectures her GPA has improved by a full point.

Almost the end of this year, and then she gets to do research for three years, and we get to have a child, too.

298 prairiefire  Wed, Mar 14, 2012 9:41:20pm

re: #297 Obdicut

Whuuuuut? Are you guys knocked up? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

299 Aye Pod  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 1:04:22am

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Sorry but it does irk me to see some of the attempts to drive out or alienate the more moderate members of LGF, especially the ones who've contributed a lot of material and behind the scenes support for the community and related projects.

Youtube Video
300 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 2:02:26am

re: #298 prairiefire

No, no, we just have time in our lives in two years to do the knocking-up.

301 Hawaii69  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 1:44:22pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

This one isn't just dim -- there's no way that Hoft could have read just the first 5 paragraphs and missed the very next section that says it's not connected to Occupy.

He's deliberately lying in his post.

Well....yeah.
That's kind of his thing, isn't it?

302 andydp  Thu, Mar 15, 2012 1:51:24pm

I was a Corrections Officer in New Haven CT. I think I know this fellow "Gamble" or his siblings. He would have been about 18 or so when I was there in the early 80's, If its not him, then its a brother.


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