Breitbart.com Says: Hispanics Are Not ‘White’

A glimpse into the sick minds of the mini-Breits
Wingnuts • Views: 41,759

Apparently, the followers of Andrew Breitbart believe that being Hispanic means you can’t be white: MEDIA LABELS HISPANIC MAN WHITE IN SHOOTING OF BLACK TEEN.

On Friday night, a young African-American teenager, Trayvon Martin, was shot to death in Orlando by a neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman. The media immediately portrayed the death as a case of white on black racism. CBS News, on its Crimesider website, immediately called Zimmerman a “white neighborhood watch volunteer.” Martin’s parents accused the police of racism for not arresting Zimmerman.

There’s only one problem: Zimmerman is Hispanic. Within a few hours of its original report, CBS News was calling Zimmerman a mere “neighborhood watch captain,” without the racial modifier, quoting Zimmerman’s father to the effect that his son is Hispanic.

Zimmerman’s race was already well known by the time CBS News wrote its original story – Zimmerman’s father wrote to the Orlando Sentinel and explained last week that his son is Hispanic because his mother was Latino.

Wow.

The fact is that Hispanic or Latino origin is an ethnic classification based on culture and language, not a racial classification.

But it’s very interesting to see one of the worst race-baiting right wing sites on the web referring to a “racial modifier” — that isn’t a racial modifier. It reveals something about them that’s pretty damned ugly.

According to the US Census:

Since the 1970 Census, the questionnaire has asked U.S. residents whether they are of Hispanic origin, and if so, which broad Hispanic group they identify with. Hispanic origin is considered separately from race in the Census—and Hispanics may identify with any race.

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862 comments
1 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:45:11pm

Pretty much the entire population of Argentina is white.

2 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:45:15pm

Sorry Visigoths, you're out of the Hesperides club. War!

3 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:46:00pm

Come to think of it, the Hesperides were in Spain.

4 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:46:55pm

I suppose it would only make the spittle fly faster if you asked them to read the US Census statement about Hispanic Identity:

Hispanic Identity

Since the 1970 Census, the questionnaire has asked U.S. residents whether they are of Hispanic origin, and if so, which broad Hispanic group they identify with. Hispanic origin is considered separately from race in the Census—and Hispanics may identify with any race. As the largest and fastest-growing ethnic minority in the United States, the information about Hispanic origin is of growing importance. It is used in numerous programs and for monitoring equal employment opportunities.

5 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:49:21pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

Question 5.

6 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:49:33pm

Guess it shouldn't surprise me that the knee-jerk response to this story is not to express shock at the circumstances or anger at the perpetrator, but instead to get angry with the media for mislabeling the perp's race.

7 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:50:32pm

Someone needs to tell these fuckers they aren't getting paid anymore.

8 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:51:18pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Guess it shouldn't surprise me that the knee-jerk response to this story is not to express shock at the circumstances or anger at the perpetrator, but instead to get angry with the media for mislabeling the perp's race.

No True White...

Like Brievik wasn't a real Counter-Jihadi.

9 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:51:48pm

Breitbart.com still flatlining: [Link: www.quantcast.com...]

10 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:51:56pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Guess it shouldn't surprise me that the knee-jerk response to this story is not to express shock at the circumstances or anger at the perpetrator, but instead to get angry with the media for mislabeling the perp's race.

The implication is that since the suspect is not white, he couldn't have been motivated by the victim being black, which is not logical unless you think like a racist.

11 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:52:18pm

Latinos can be of any race. Ricky Martin is white in Puerto Rico and Rosie Perez is a mixed race Puerto Rican. Zoe Saldana and Laz Alonso are black Dominicans. Celia Cruz is black Cuban and Marco Rubio is a white Cuban. Eva Longoria is mostly Caucasian and about 1/4 Indian. They can be any race or what we call race.

12 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:53:19pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Pretty much the entire population of Argentina is white.

and Italian and German at that.

13 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:54:04pm

What they're attempting to do of course is try and displace or diminish any racial overtone in this incident.

14 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:55:10pm

Here are some people with too much time on their hands doing something productive...

15 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:55:38pm

re: #10 wrenchwench

The implication is that since the suspect is not white, he couldn't have been motivated by the victim being black, which is not logical unless you think like a racist.

Conservatives are always trying to argue that people of color are the real racists. Now here's their chance. The shooter still could have been motivated by race no matter what his own race was. Anti-black racism has always run deep in the country and no group is immune.

16 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:55:51pm

re: #13 Gus

What they're attempting to do of course is try and displace or diminish any racial overtone in this incident.

Captain Obvious to the rescue!!!
;)

17 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:56:01pm

re: #10 wrenchwench

The implication is that since the suspect is not white, he couldn't have been motivated by the victim being black, which is not logical unless you think like a racist.

F*** the fact that minorities can be racist towards each other should be driven home to everyone in school if they watch the remake of 12 Angry Men (I watched it in school and the remake features a black guy racist against Latinos...)

18 Interesting Times  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:56:40pm
19 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:56:50pm

re: #13 Gus

What they're attempting to do of course is try and displace or diminish any racial overtone in this incident.

"See, its just some minorities shooting each other. Nothing that concerns us."

20 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:56:54pm

re: #13 Gus

What they're attempting to do of course is try and displace or diminish any racial overtone in this incident.

They can't change the fact that Zimmerman isn't black, though. It's really about their insecurities. They just don't want him to be "white."

21 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:58:27pm

re: #20 Meh.

They can't change the fact that Zimmerman isn't black, though. It's really about their insecurities. They just don't want him to be "white."

They could have worked it if he had only been Irish.
///

22 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:59:45pm

Comment rerun time:

129 wrenchwench 3/19/2012 12:59:48 pm PDT

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Zimmerman is Hispanic so I'm not so sure white privilege is involved.

As I keep telling people, "Hispanics can be of any race".

As my Hispanic former employee said, referring to the Hispanic cops around here, "I wear a cowboy hat when I'm driving so they'll think I'm white".

23 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 5:59:55pm

re: #21 Kragar

They could have worked it if he had only been Irish.
///

FECK OFF!

24 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:01:08pm

re: #23 Varek Raith

FECK OFF!

Ooh, listen to the college lad.

26 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:01:26pm

What I find interesting is that the Breitbartians consider Hispanics as a non-white race. It's bad to assume a white killed a black, but it's expected of someone from a non-white race, or at least acceptable.

27 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:02:06pm

re: #26 A Little Bit Shady

"Minorities will be minorities."

28 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:02:55pm

I'm glad that's settled. Sometimes I get sooooo confused. ///

29 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:06:12pm

Read Heman Badillio's book about this very issue. It's a complicated one

[Link: books.google.com...]

(And for those of you too young to know who he is [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] )

30 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:08:24pm

This isn't race-baiting, folks -- it's outright racism. The assumption that Hispanics are not "white" reveals a LOT about these people.

31 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:10:28pm

And, tit for tat in some perverted universe, I suppose, Some black forums have been saying that Zimmerman is--you guessed it--Jewish!

For example:

[Link: www.topix.com...]
[Link: www.looseweightyourway.com...]

32 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:12:07pm

re: #30 Charles Johnson

This isn't race-baiting, folks -- it's outright racism. The assumption that Hispanics are not "white" reveals a LOT about these people.

The assumption that we should have different expectations and standards for not-whites is racist.

33 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:12:25pm

Today, wingnuts have taught me:

Black is a nationality.

Obama isn't really black, but a mixed breed.

Nig isn't a bad word, despite its definition according to multiple sources.

European heritage means you weren't ever really immigrants.

I kill anyone I like as long as I feel threatened after following them and jumping out of my to confront them despite being told not to by the police.

Hispanics can't be white.

God wants all non-Christians out of the country.

Thanks wingnuts.

34 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:14:47pm

re: #33 Kragar

God wants all non-Christians out of the country.

And liberals, but then, I repeat myself.
/

35 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:14:55pm

You're earned your Ronnie Wings today.

36 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:16:09pm

re: #34 Obdicut

And liberals, but then, I repeat myself.
/

Liberals can't really be real Christians anyways. They're like Mormons.
/

37 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:16:15pm

re: #31 ReamWorks

And, tit for tat in some perverted universe, I suppose, Some black forums have been saying that Zimmerman is--you guessed it--Jewish!

For example:

[Link: www.topix.com...]
[Link: www.looseweightyourway.com...]

Sorta OT, but have the wingnut forums been talking about those Jewish people killed in France or are they ignoring it because it appears to have been neo-nazis? Do they only care when Muslims kill Jews?

38 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:17:24pm

There is a chance that this case isn't about race, but is about what happens when you give people legal permission to shoot other people. They sit and wait for an opportunity to do so. That's why very broad laws like Florida's "stand your ground" are foolish.

39 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:17:27pm

I get it.

It isn't a case of a privileged class killing a member of a non-privileged class, it's a case of the non-privileged killing the non-privileged.

That makes the privileged class blameless for the outcome (even though they made the laws that enabled Zimmerman).

40 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:17:28pm

Santorum Calls Contraception Debate A ‘Gotcha’ Media Trick (VIDEO)

“This is you guys playing sort of gotcha politics,” Santorum said. “Go to any of my almost now 1,000 town hall meetings, and I don’t think the word ‘contraception’ has ever come up. Let’s deal with reality instead of what media tries to do, which is pigeonhole you and tell a narrative.”

Scarborough took offense, and asked the former senator, “You have known me for a long time. Do you think I’m trying to pigeonhole you and stereotype you?”

Santorum didn’t back down: “Well, the fact that you continue to bring it up, yeah, sure. I don’t talk about this, Joe,” he said.

Santorum did bring up contraception in an interview Scarborough cited. In fall 2011, when Santorum was bringing up the rear in a crowded presidential field, Santorum gave an interview to the evangelical blog Caffeinated Thoughts in which he raised the issue.

“One of the things I will talk about that no president has talked about before is I think the dangers of contraception in this country,” Santorum said. “It’s not OK because it’s a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. They’re supposed to be within marriage, they are supposed to be for purposes that are, yes, conjugal, but also [inaudible], but also procreative.”

That interview, and other past statements on birth control, nudged the media into asking Santorum to clarify his stance. As Santorum rose to the front of the pack — and as Congress took on a contentious contraception coverage debate — the issue became more, not less relevant, Scarborough argued.

41 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:18:08pm
42 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:18:46pm
43 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:19:35pm

re: #39 A Little Bit Shady

I get it.

It isn't a case of a privileged class killing a member of a non-privileged class, it's a case of the non-privileged killing the non-privileged.

That makes the privileged class blameless for the outcome (even though they made the laws that enabled Zimmerman).

Exactly. Or as I was just imagining:

OK folks! George Zimmerman wasn't a white man he was Hispanic! False alarm! You can all go home now and let them minorities take care of their own like we always do! Nothing to worry about. It was a "mutual."

44 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:19:42pm

re: #39 A Little Bit Shady

I get it.

It isn't a case of a privileged class killing a member of a non-privileged class, it's a case of the non-privileged killing the non-privileged.

That makes the privileged class blameless for the outcome (even though they made the laws that enabled Zimmerman).

How can they indulge in their blatant abuse of race based politics if they're stuck defending themselves while they do it?

45 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:20:01pm

re: #40 Kragar

Quoting the candidate is unfair; that's the Gingrich ruling.

46 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:20:12pm

re: #40 Kragar

Santorum Calls Contraception Debate A ‘Gotcha’ Media Trick (VIDEO)

That's been the Right's whine for days now, that the whole issue of contraception was a "trick," planned by the White House and carried out by the media, that the Right conveniently fell into. That Obama baited the hook and they can't be held responsible for taking it all: hook, line, sinker, and tackle box.

47 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:21:07pm
48 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:21:33pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

That's been the Right's whine for days now, that the whole issue of contraception was a "trick," planned by the White House and carried out by the media, that the Right conveniently fell into. That Obama baited the hook and they can't be held responsible for taking it all: hook, line, sinker, and tackle box.

How dare anyone notice that a Republican said something, quote it accurately and act as if what they said actually meant something?!?1!!!1?

49 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:22:22pm

re: #40 Kragar

Santorum Calls Contraception Debate A ‘Gotcha’ Media Trick (VIDEO)

Santorum seems to be realizing belatedly that his obsession with the sex lives of other people might not be a winning strategy.

50 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:22:30pm

re: #48 moderatelyradicalliberal

We should dismiss everything any Republican candidate says because they're just pandering, and judge them on their record, as viewed through rose-colored glasses and a Vaseline-smeared lens.

/

51 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:22:37pm

MEDIA LABELS HISPANIC MAN WHITE

we need more funding for classes in living in the 21st century as a second language

52 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:23:19pm

I need to moderate just one GOP debate.

"OK, nothing on contraception then. Rick Santorum, you've been characterized as a whiny bitch with a self righteous stick up your ass. Whats your excuse?

Mitt Romney, 0010111011101010010010100111?

Newt and Ron Paul are still locked in the basement, fighting over the hacksaw, so we'll get to them later."

53 Interesting Times  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:23:51pm

re: #48 moderatelyradicalliberal

How dare anyone notice that a Republican said something, quote it accurately and act as if what they said actually meant something?!?1!!!1?

54 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:24:18pm

From yourblackworld.net

First, where is the National Black Police Officers Association on this issue about “accountability” by the Sanford police department to investigate this incident thoroughly? Secondly, where is the NAACP and the other African American organizations on this issue? If this guy Zimmerman is Jewish why haven’t immediate dialogue taken place between the black and jewish community regarding this terrible injustice?

This is a minefield of an issue, with crazies all around, and one dead young man who probably did nothing wrong.

55 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:24:46pm
Santorum voiced support for the recently defeated Blunt Amendment to allow religious employers to deny coverage of contraception. He also offered in the fall 2011 interview that he would “get rid of any idea that you have to have abortion coverage or contraceptive coverage” as a government policy.

In early January, Santorum reaffirmed his belief that individual states have the right to ban married couples from using contraception — a power the Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional in 1965. Santorum believes that decision, Griswold v. Connecticut, was wrong.

Why does the media keep asking him gotcha questions about it?

56 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:24:46pm

re: #45 jaunte

Quoting the candidate is unfair; that's the Gingrich ruling.

HEY! Where is Newtie today? Not in the news!

57 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:26:26pm

re: #56 Oh geeze.

He's 'settling in':
Gingrich campaign settles in for marathon

58 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:26:35pm

re: #47 jaunte

Make this trend: Where is Trayvon's cellphone?

— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) March 20, 2012

He was a John Doe for 3 days. Phone be gone.

59 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:26:41pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Santorum Calls Contraception Debate A ‘Gotcha’ Media Trick (VIDEO)

Yeah, because the media forced him to talk about it. //

60 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:27:14pm

re: #57 jaunte

He's 'settling in':
Gingrich campaign settles in for marathon

Translation: Campaign running on fumes, Newt will be lucky if he makes it to the convention without getting out and pushing.

61 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:27:23pm

re: #54 ReamWorks

From yourblackworld.net

First, where is the National Black Police Officers Association on this issue about “accountability” by the Sanford police department to investigate this incident thoroughly? Secondly, where is the NAACP and the other African American organizations on this issue? If this guy Zimmerman is Jewish why haven’t immediate dialogue taken place between the black and jewish community regarding this terrible injustice?

This is a minefield of an issue, with crazies all around, and one dead young man who probably did nothing wrong.

Oh, Jesus. This situations is rife for all kinds of bad feelings and behavior to erupt. I get more and more sick about it as time goes on.

62 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:29:45pm

re: #59 CuriousLurker

Yeah, because the media forced him to talk about it. //

That's what I love about it. The GOP could have declared "victory" when the revised mandate was issued, made hay out of Obama "backing down," and done a victory lap. But because the crazies running the base refused to accept anything but status quo ante bellum, drove themselves into the darkest regions of conservative thought, and now are pissed that women voters are repulsed by what they saw behind the mask.

63 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:30:36pm

re: #60 Targetpractice

Translation: Campaign running on fumes, Newt will be lucky if he makes it to the convention without getting out and pushing.

He's still holding out that he'll win a brokered convention.

lol

64 CuriousLurker  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:31:31pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

That's what I love about it. The GOP could have declared "victory" when the revised mandate was issued, made hay out of Obama "backing down," and done a victory lap. But because the crazies running the base refused to accept anything but status quo ante bellum, drove themselves into the darkest regions of conservative thought, and now are pissed that women voters are repulsed by what they saw behind the mask.

Yep. Personal responsibility—it's only for Democrats.

65 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:32:51pm

re: #63 Kragar

He's still holding out that he'll win a brokered convention.

lol

So are Santorum and Paul, so it's not exactly like he's alone in such a "strategy."

66 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:34:40pm

re: #63 Kragar

He's still holding out that he'll win a brokered convention.

lol

he'll be lucky if he isn't brushed with butter and sprinkled with powdered sugar

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:38:23pm

Can we create a racial category of "sociopathic jerks?"

Then nobody needs to have this fight every time somebody does something bad.

68 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:40:49pm

re: #66 engineer cat

he'll be lucky if he isn't brushed with butter and sprinkled with powdered sugar

Eww.

69 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:42:44pm

re: #67 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Can we create a racial category of "sociopathic jerks?"

Then nobody needs to have this fight every time somebody does something bad.

That's the goal, but we aren't there yet.

70 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:43:39pm

re: #66 engineer cat

he'll be lucky if he isn't brushed with butter and sprinkled with powdered sugar

Imagery I could have done without.

71 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:45:03pm

So, has anyone broached the idea of a wrongful death civil suit against this turd?

72 dragonath  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:46:15pm

I used to think it was pretty shocking that out school textbooks used to actually state that the Pilgrims or whatever were the first white men in North America, even though the Spanish were all over the Southwest!

73 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:46:42pm

re: #68 A Little Bit Shady

re: #70 Kragar

mr gingrich will be removed from the dessert menu due to customer request

74 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:47:20pm

re: #71 Kragar

So, has anyone broached the idea of a wrongful death civil suit against this turd?

I figure that's almost certain, what with the cops telling him not to go out.

75 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:48:02pm

re: #72 Beware the Green Dragon!

I used to think it was pretty shocking that out school textbooks used to actually state that the Pilgrims or whatever were the first white men in North America, even though the Spanish were all over the Southwest!

Also:

Image: pancho35-albums-exploration-+new+world!-picture2064-vikings-encounter-skraelings.jpg

76 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:49:07pm

re: #74 Obdicut

I figure that's almost certain, what with the cops telling him not to go out.

It was a gated community? That implies an HOA as well, if this guy was working under their sanction, it means they could be liable as well I would think.

77 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:51:02pm

re: #71 Kragar

So, has anyone broached the idea of a wrongful death civil suit against this turd?

Not allowed if it's called a justified shooting.

79 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:52:14pm

re: #77 William Barnett-Lewis

Not allowed if it's called a justified shooting.

Horseshit.

80 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:54:05pm

Wha?

CBS News: Afghan Shooting Suspect Was More Than $1M In Debt

81 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:55:14pm

re: #80 Oh geeze.

Wha?

CBS News: Afghan Shooting Suspect Was More Than $1M In Debt

Oh Geeze is right.

82 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:57:10pm

re: #80 Oh geeze.

Wha?

CBS News: Afghan Shooting Suspect Was More Than $1M In Debt

I would have thought that whatever issues made him lose it would have, you know, been almost exclusively related to Afghanistan.

83 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 6:59:41pm

re: #80 Oh geeze.

Before he enlisted in the Army, he worked as a financial advisor. He was accused of stealing money from clients. Arbitrators found he'd engaged in fraud, unauthorized trading and unsuitable investments. He was ordered repay more than $1 million. He never did. [Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

That will complicate your life all by itself.

84 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:00:03pm

Has anyone ever been part of a Neighborhood Watch? Since when has any Neighborhood Watcher had the authority to shoot someone! Even if the kid was committing a crime and there's no evidence thus far that he was. There's no doubt in my mind this was racially motivated, because otherwise, he simply would have called 911 and let cops do their job.

85 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:00:13pm

The hatred and fear of your fellow Americans will continue until bipartisanship improves.

86 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:00:40pm

re: #80 Oh geeze.

Wha?

CBS News: Afghan Shooting Suspect Was More Than $1M In Debt

What? A soldier on Army pay is 1M is Debt? Who the hell is his banker?
/

87 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:02:00pm

re: #83 jaunte

That will complicate your life all by itself.

oh shit.

Women and children.

88 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:02:34pm

You know what they call a Hunger Games with cheese in France? A Battle Royale with cheese

89 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:02:50pm

re: #84 Madge

Has anyone ever been part of a Neighborhood Watch? Since when has any Neighborhood Watcher had the authority to shoot someone! Even if the kid was committing a crime and there's no evidence thus far that he was. There's no doubt in my mind this was racially motivated, because otherwise, he simply would have called 911 and let cops do their job.

MM, doesn't the gated community thing blow you away?

90 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:05:37pm

re: #38 ReamWorks

There is a chance that this case isn't about race, but is about what happens when you give people legal permission to shoot other people. They sit and wait for an opportunity to do so. That's why very broad laws like Florida's "stand your ground" are foolish.

It's about several things. It's about a twisted legal right to shoot others, it's about a violent pathetic individual living out his fantasies at others expense and it's about using racial profiling to develop a target for those fantasies.

91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:06:09pm

re: #86 HoosierHoops

What? A soldier on Army pay is 1M is Debt? Who the hell is his banker?
/

he was defrauding people

Robert Bales grew up in Norwood, Ohio, outside Cincinnati, where he's remembered as a good football player and friend by Michael Blevins. They were in touch last month on Facebook.

"I've known him since the time I was two years old and nothing in his character shows that he's going to go out and massacre innocent people," Blevins said.

But there was another side to Bales. In 2002, he was accused of assaulting a girlfriend and was required to undergo anger management. In 2008, he was cited for a hit and run accident. But his financial problems were much bigger than his legal issues. Before he enlisted in the Army, he worked as a financial advisor. He was accused of stealing money from clients.

Arbitrators found he'd engaged in fraud, unauthorized trading and unsuitable investments. He was ordered repay more than $1 million. He never did.

92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:06:52pm

re: #38 ReamWorks

There is a chance that this case isn't about race, but is about what happens when you give people legal permission to shoot other people. They sit and wait for an opportunity to do so. That's why very broad laws like Florida's "stand your ground" are foolish.

I would say thein the micro, it's about race, int he macro, it's about lunatic laws in florida that encourage murder

93 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:08:39pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Pretty much the entire population of Argentina is white.

Yes, but if you take note of that fact you 'prove' yourself to be a "Peronist Progressive!1". Or so our "fan club" would say.

94 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:12:54pm

re: #89 Oh geeze.

MM, doesn't the gated community thing blow you away?

I'm so outraged at every aspect of this. Apparently this thug Zimmerman has been walking around with a gun for quite some time unbeknownst to his neighbors.

Even if they arrest this guy tomorrow, it's become a huge setback in race relations as a whole, but the mini-Breits will never see that.

One of my black g/fs and I were ranting about this today. At the end of the conversation, she looked at me flabbergasted and said, "I hate white people". I told her, "Sometimes, I do, too." I know she's just angry and needed to say it. We hugged.

95 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:12:54pm

re: #93 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but if you take note of that fact you 'prove' yourself to be a "Peronist Progressive!1". Or so our "fan club" would say.

I'm a Penisist Progressive and I want a fan club.

96 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:13:26pm

re: #91 windupbird is in the gravity well

he was defrauding people

This guy sounds like a real piece of shit.

97 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:14:28pm

re: #91 windupbird is in the gravity well

Wow! Thanks for the link WUP..With his background in fraud and anger issues I'm surprised the Army hired him.. Really..But WUP don't provide a link why they did it.. I can't take it anymore..:)
I'm watching Shawshank Redemption tonight.. I prefer to keep all the criminals in little boxes so that I can understand the thought process..
/

98 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:14:47pm

re: #96 Kragar

This guy sounds like a real piece of shit.

Reminds me of this novel.

99 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:19:22pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

The hatred and fear of your fellow Americans will continue until bipartisanship improves.

The Koch Bros think buy partisanship is working just fine so far.
//

100 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:23:27pm

re: #99 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The Koch Bros think buy partisanship is working just fine so far.
//

That deserves an upding and a boot.

101 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:23:50pm

George Zimmerman still has his gun tonight. If he was actually on a police force, he would not.

102 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:24:41pm

re: #39 A Little Bit Shady

I get it.

It isn't a case of a privileged class killing a member of a non-privileged class, it's a case of the non-privileged killing the non-privileged.

That makes the privileged class blameless for the outcome (even though they made the laws that enabled Zimmerman).

It's a man feeling he has the privilege to summarily kill because of his suspicions. A man who didn't listen to the police tell him not to follow Trayvon, who told the dispatcher "These bastards always get away" before initiating his pursuit. [Transcript of 911 call]

It's a man who's sense of entitlement allows him to view a black kid with his hand by his waistband as a threat, but lacks the imaginative faculties to conceive of non-criminal reasons why an unaccompanied youth might bolt and run from a man following them in a car.

It's a man revanchist enough to create a dangerous situation by forcing a confrontation. I'll lay down money he was angry and excited rather than scared: he wanted a fight, a personal triumph. The "neighborhood watch" and the concealed weapon were paraphernalia of a larger power fantasy and he finally had the justification to hurt somebody and feel righteous.

I'll add one more speculation: Mr Zimmerman is a coward.

Addendum: Ta-Nehisi Coates is writing on his blog about the Trayvon Martin murder. I have a great deal of respect for both his writing and analysis, and will follow what he has to say.

103 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:25:17pm

Totally off-topic, but this article is absolutely fascinating - and should be of particular interest to food slaves of cats, of which I believe there are quite a few at LGF.

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

104 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:26:51pm

re: #102 The Ghost of a Flea

It's a man feeling he has the privilege to summarily kill because of his suspicions. A man who didn't listen to the police tell him not to follow Trayvon, who told the dispatcher "These bastards always get away" before initiating his pursuit. [Transcript of 911 call]

It's a man who's sense of entitlement allows him to view a black kid with his hand by his waistband as a threat, but lacks the imaginative faculties to conceive of non-criminal reasons why an unaccompanied youth might bolt and run from a man following them in a car.

It's a man revanchist enough to create a dangerous situation by forcing a confrontation. I'll lay down money he was angry and excited rather than scared: he wanted a fight, a personal triumph. The "neighborhood watch" and the concealed weapon were paraphernalia of a larger power fantasy and he finally had the justification to hurt somebody and feel righteous.

I'll add one more speculation: Mr Zimmerman is a coward.

Bingo.

105 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:31:34pm

Neighborhood Watch means just that.

Watch.

And call the police.

If it were the Neighborhood Shoot People, it would be called that.

106 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:34:06pm

re: #79 Kragar

Horseshit.

Well, you can try to sue, but such suits normally do not succeed. And Florida's laws are fairly hostile to wrongful death suits in shooting ruled as justified. That was the NRA's work, and something I agree with, on that point.

If the shooting was ruled justified, that should normally be the end of the matter. Note the word normally, though, for there are exceptions. A column in Combat Handguns magazine recently talked about an exception in Texas. In brief, a man shot and killed another man who was stealing his property. The thief posed no physical threat at the time the shot was fired, but upon review it was found that Texas law did protect against criminal liability when using force in defense of one's property. However, Texas appeals courts held that "defense of property" was not a defense against a civil lawsuit, and thus a wrongful death suit filed by the slain thief's mother could proceed. Moreover, those same appeals judges held that the shooter's rejected claim of justification also counted as an admission by him of a civilly indefensible shooting. The shooter ultimately had to hand over his house to the mother of the man he'd shot as part of settling the lawsuit.

107 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:34:42pm

re: #105 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Neighborhood Watch means just that.

Watch.

And call the police.

If it were the Neighborhood Shoot People, it would be called that.

AND, know and have handy the police #, not 911.

108 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:36:21pm

as far as i can make out, this "self-defense law" would allow a paranoid psychotic to legally kill anybody they hallucinated was a threat

109 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:36:23pm

re: #101 jaunte

George Zimmerman still has his gun tonight. If he was actually on a police force, he would not.

There's talk on the Twitter about vigilante groups trying to kill him. This is what it's going to come to. People out there don't trust the police anymore than Zimmerman did, ironically enough.

They're going to end up having to arrest this guy so they better do it quick while evidence, witnesses and statements are still fresh. What are the courts/police thinking?

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:36:53pm

The precise racial classification of Mr. Zimmerman is not my primary interest in this case.

111 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:37:28pm

The right's whole argument is that liberals only get mad when a minority is shot by a white person, and that if Zimmerman is Hispanic then the left's narrative falls apart.

Historical facts should put such a notion to rest. Liberals oppose what they see as excessive use of force by the military, the police and police wannabes (Zimmerman). Chicago in 1968, Kent State in 1970, Rodney King in 1990, OWS this past year. In most of those cases, many of the victims were white; additionally, the alleged perpetrators were not monolithically white.

112 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:37:59pm

Governor Scott calls for investigation. Well, let me eat my socks.

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

113 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:38:33pm

I just figured he was too busy getting the poor drug tested.

114 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:39:11pm

re: #111 palomino

The right's whole argument is that liberals only get mad when a minority is shot by a white person, and that if Zimmerman is Hispanic then the left's narrative falls apart.

Historical facts should put such a notion to rest. Liberals oppose what they see as excessive use of force by the military, the police and police wannabes (Zimmerman). Chicago in 1968, Kent State in 1970, Rodney King in 1990, OWS this past year. In most of those cases, many of the victims were white; additionally, the alleged perpetrators were not monolithically white.

Don't worry I'm sure if only the shooter was a minority and the victim was white then the right wing would be all over this!

115 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:40:52pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

The precise racial classification of Mr. Zimmerman is not my primary interest in this case.

Yes..Also Something is not adding up with the reporting in this story.. Doesn't make sense.. I think there is much more to come in the days ahead

116 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:42:09pm

re: #112 Madge

Governor Scott calls for investigation. Well, let me eat my socks.

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

Holy, what the, who'da, what?

117 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:42:36pm

Of course. People will say...

118 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:42:45pm

Maryann was typing way too quickly, the poor dear. Class act, that Miami Herald.

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

Gov. Scott asks FDLE to investigate Trayvon Martin's shooting

In a one-paragraph letter released late Monday, Gov. Rick Scott asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to intervene in the investigation into the shooting death of Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin by a Sanford neighborhood watch volunteer last month.

"The circumstances surrounding the deaht of Trayvon Martin have causead significant concerns within the Stanfrod community and the state,'' Scott wrote to FDLE Commissioner Gerald Bailey. "I understand an investigation was initiative by the Sanford Police Department and referred to the Eighteenth Judicial Circuit State Attorney's Office. I believe it is appropriate the the Florida Department of Law Enforcement provide any assistance necessary to fully investigate this matter. Accordingly, please ensure that FDLE offers and provides the appropriate resources to the State Attorney's Office as they continue their investigation."

Martin, who was not armed, was fatally shot by George Zimmerman, 28, on Feb. 26. He is under investigation by police after many in the community have raised questions about whether the shooting was racially motivated. Zimmerman has not been charged.

Legal experts told the Miami Herald that Florida's controversial 2005 "Stand-Your-Ground" self-defense law could hamper any efforst to charge Zimmerman. More on that story here.

Posted by Mary Ellen Klas at 10:22 PM on Monday, Mar. 19 in Florida Governor, Rick Scott | Permalink

119 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:43:28pm
120 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:43:37pm

re: #109 Madge

There's talk on the Twitter about vigilante groups trying to kill him. This is what it's going to come to. People out there don't trust the police anymore than Zimmerman did, ironically enough.

They're going to end up having to arrest this guy so they better do it quick while evidence, witnesses and statements are still fresh. What are the courts/police thinking?

Sadly I think the evidence is toast. The cops did nothing. Trayvan was a John Doe for 3 days. The only reason this is going anywhere than his parent's grief is the social media. The cops fucked up big time, I don't see justice occuring. They didn't drug/alcohol test him.

Unless they research and release his 43 calls to 911 since January 1. That may show a big picture, but it will also show their failings.

121 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:43:39pm
122 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:43:54pm

Boom!

123 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:44:32pm

re: #99 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The Koch Bros think buy partisanship is working just fine so far.
//

Soros begs to differ. I'd tell you what the Zionist lobby thinks but they kill me.

124 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:44:44pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

The precise racial classification of Mr. Zimmerman is not my primary interest in this case.

It of course doesn't matter. But note who's using it as a dodge.

125 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:46:21pm
126 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:46:27pm

re: #114 jamesfirecat

Don't worry I'm sure if only the shooter was a minority and the victim was white then the right wing would be all over this!

Of course they would, because that's the kind of thing "that happens in Obama's America" (as Limbaugh has said countless times). Indeed Malkin loves to go there, reporting on black against white crime whenever she gets the chance, even when the perpetrators are arrested and convicted. Which, by the way, is the real issue--if the Orlando PD acted as if they gave a damn, this would be a far less controversial story.

It's as if any act of violence that is black on white is somehow implicitly endorsed by the presence of a black president. Remember when the video surfaced of a white kid getting beat up on a bus while some black kids cheered it on--that became a symbol to the know-nothings (courtesy of Drudge and Limbaugh hype) of losing control of "their" country.

127 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:46:50pm

Repeat:

128 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:47:38pm

OFFICIAL DOJ STATEMENT IN THE TRAYVON MARTIN CASE:

“The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Florida, and the FBI opened an investigation into the facts and circumstances of the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation. The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident. With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws. The Community Relations Service will be in Sanford, Fla., this week to meet with civil rights leaders, community leaders, and local law enforcement to address tension in the community.”

129 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:47:50pm

re: #112 Madge

Governor Scott calls for investigation. Well, let me eat my socks.

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

It's the smart move. If Zimmerman truly did chase after Martin and gun him down, then that would be murder under normal definitions. "Stand your ground" is supposed to mean you do not have to run or back down. It does not (or at least should not) mean you have the right to chase after someone who is no longer a threat. Gunning someone down as they run away is not allowable or justifiable by police or civilians*.

*: A qualification is needed here to note that soldiers are a different case. Thus for a NATO sharpshooter to gun down a fleeing Talib would be allowable, as the Talib is an enemy combatant and can be lawfully engaged until he surrenders. But that rule set applies only in war, and it has no bearing on the shooting in Florida.

130 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:48:51pm

re: #120 Oh geeze.

Sadly I think the evidence is toast. The cops did nothing. Trayvan was a John Doe for 3 days. The only reason this is going anywhere than his parent's grief is the social media. The cops fucked up big time, I don't see justice occuring. They didn't drug/alcohol test him.

Unless they research and release his 43 calls to 911 since January 1. That may show a big picture, but it will also show their failings.

Oh it's just dreadful on all accounts, but still, the sooner the better. There's no freakin way this isn't going to trial and now the whole world is watching. I say good.

131 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:50:26pm

Sanford, FL police dept. Not Orlando. Sanford=gated communities around lakes (with gators in em) and cheaper places to stay for Disney. Not sophisticated imho. Easy peasy. and they fucked up big time.

132 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:50:34pm

U.S. Department of Justice, FBI and FDLE to probe Trayvon Martin killing.
Mounting pressure in Trayvon Martin case succeeds in getting a federal probe.
By Frances Robles

The U.S. Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division and the FBI will step in to investigate the killing of Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin, the U.S. Department of Justice announced late Monday.

The announcement coincided with a statement from Florida Gov. Rick Scott asking the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to offer “appropriate resources” in the case.

The federal and state agencies are intervening in what attorneys call a botched investigation into the killing of the Michael Krop Senior High School student, who was killed Feb. 26 in Sanford, a town of 55,000 just north of Orlando. The teen, on suspension from school, was staying at his father’s girlfriend’s house when he stepped out to 7-Eleven to buy candy and iced tea.

A neighborhood watch volunteer with a long history of calling in everything from open garage doors to “suspicious characters” called police to say he spotted someone who looked drugged, was walking too slowly in the rain, and appeared to be looking at people’s houses. Zimmerman sounded alarmed, because the stranger had his hand in his waistband and had something in his other hand.

The unarmed teen carried Skittles and Arizona iced tea.

Read more here: [Link: www.miamiherald.com...]

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:51:28pm

re: #37 moderatelyradicalliberal

Sorta OT, but have the wingnut forums been talking about those Jewish people killed in France or are they ignoring it because it appears to have been neo-nazis? Do they only care when Muslims kill Jews?

The wingnut forums I've seen so far assume the killings in France were jihadi work. Don't know if they'll ever notice otherwise.

Pam actually did a sane and sober write-up of the shooting, but her readers are spewing filth anyway. Most of them are sure its Muslims. One of them, however, had realized that if it WERE a Muslim, the case would never have been reported by the press, so he thinks it's something else.

134 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:53:02pm
135 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:54:05pm

Good news about the DOJ. Swift action from the administration. Still, I can't help but think about that kid. What a fucking shame.

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:54:10pm

re: #88 windupbird is in the gravity well

You know what they call a Hunger Games with cheese in France? A Battle Royale with cheese

Admittedly, that is hilarious.

137 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:54:56pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

The precise racial classification of Mr. Zimmerman is not my primary interest in this case.

Oh, but it is completely. In fact, it is most probably the reason why he shot him - adding it all together, black kid, hoodie, "looking suspicious". To you or me, it's just a kid coming back from the 7/11. To a racist, it's... well... it's what Flea said upthread.

138 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:55:21pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

Pam actually did a sane and sober write-up of the shooting

That just means she quoted an article from somewhere else, probably Fox or AP.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:55:31pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

The precise racial classification of Mr. Zimmerman is not my primary interest in this case.

Similarly, the precise racial classification of the President (l'havdil) is not my primary interest in the matter of those hideous bumper stickers.

140 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:56:35pm

re: #128 Gus

With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law.

They'll never prove this in this case.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:56:58pm

re: #111 palomino

The right's whole argument is that liberals only get mad when a minority is shot by a white person, and that if Zimmerman is Hispanic then the left's narrative falls apart.

Historical facts should put such a notion to rest. Liberals oppose what they see as excessive use of force by the military, the police and police wannabes (Zimmerman). Chicago in 1968, Kent State in 1970, Rodney King in 1990, OWS this past year. In most of those cases, many of the victims were white; additionally, the alleged perpetrators were not monolithically white.

I can say, without qualifications, as a liberal, I do not believe that Hispanic people are allowed to shoot other people of whatever ethnic origin without my getting mad.

142 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:57:49pm

re: #128 Gus

They'll be able to defend by admitting he acted recklessly.

143 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:58:14pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

It's the smart move. If Zimmerman truly did chase after Martin and gun him down, then that would be murder under normal definitions. "Stand your ground" is supposed to mean you do not have to run or back down. It does not (or at least should not) mean you have the right to chase after someone who is no longer a threat. Gunning someone down as they run away is not allowable or justifiable by police or civilians*.

*: A qualification is needed here to note that soldiers are a different case. Thus for a NATO sharpshooter to gun down a fleeing Talib would be allowable, as the Talib is an enemy combatant and can be lawfully engaged until he surrenders. But that rule set applies only in war, and it has no bearing on the shooting in Florida.

Of course that's true regarding the military. I always wondered why the right tried to use John Kerry's actions in Vietnam against him in 2004, given how much the right claims to support the troops (especially those with multiple combat decorations). One of the things Kerry was excoriated for during the campaign was killing an 18-year old North Vietnamese sniper by shooting him in the back as he fled after shooting at Kerry and his subordinates. There's nothing outrageous about what Kerry did; quite the opposite, it was his duty to act as he did.

144 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:58:20pm

re: #140 Tourquoise Supremacist

They'll never prove this in this case.

Well. Zimmerman did refuse an officers orders. I typically do everything a cop tells me to with my encounters. Like if the cops called up and said "we're coming over so stay put." I stay put. That's the general idea at least.

145 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 7:58:58pm

re: #134 jaunte

And it will likely pass. But I think a point of clarification ought to be inserted, making it clear that not being required to retreat does not constitute a right to pursuit. Nor a right to stop or detain someone seen on the street.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:00:28pm

re: #137 Madge

Oh, but it is completely. In fact, it is most probably the reason why he shot him - adding it all together, black kid, hoodie, "looking suspicious". To you or me, it's just a kid coming back from the 7/11. To a racist, it's... well... it's what Flea said upthread.

No, I think there was a racial element to the shooting.

I think there was a racial element to the shooting regardless of how the shooter chooses to fill out his census form.

147 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:00:36pm

re: #140 Tourquoise Supremacist

They'll never prove this in this case.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. "These assholes always get away" on GZ's call to the police could be considered evidence of pre-meditation, I'd think.

(Hope I'm remembering the audio correctly.)

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:00:43pm

re: #138 Learned Mother of Zion

That just means she quoted an article from somewhere else, probably Fox or AP.

Well yes, but she didn't say anything awful that I saw.

149 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:01:04pm

stupid daily show repeats...

150 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:01:38pm

re: #135 Gus

Good news about the DOJ. Swift action from the administration. Still, I can't help but think about that kid. What a fucking shame.

Trayvon and HIS PARENTS. Imagine.

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:04:02pm

re: #147 abolitionist

I wouldn't be so sure of that. "These assholes always get away" on GZ's call to the police could be considered evidence of pre-meditation, I'd think.

It's a piece of evidence, but that's that. Save for an unlikely confession, the only thing they have is that he was advised to not pursue by the cops, as Gus points out. But they won't prove he shot with intent to murder. And, strictly speaking, we don't know that he actually wanted to murder him. That's not the point. The point is that at the very least he should answer heavily for criminal negligence/manslaughter (and negligence seems to be excluded by the above quote).

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:04:49pm

re: #151 Tourquoise Supremacist

It's a piece of evidence, but that's that. Save for an unlikely confession, the only thing they have is that he was advised to not pursue by the cops, as Gus points out. But they won't prove he shot with intent to murder. And, strictly speaking, we don't know that he actually wanted to murder him. That's not the point. The point is that at the very least he should answer heavily for criminal negligence/manslaughter (and negligence seems to be excluded by the above quote).

He was told not to pursue, but he pursued and shot.

I think that firing the gun was a reasonable indicator of intent to kill.

153 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:06:36pm

re: #151 Tourquoise Supremacist

It's a piece of evidence, but that's that. Save for an unlikely confession, the only thing they have is that he was advised to not pursue by the cops, as Gus points out. But they won't prove he shot with intent to murder. And, strictly speaking, we don't know that he actually wanted to murder him. That's not the point. The point is that at the very least he should answer heavily for criminal negligence/manslaughter (and negligence seems to be excluded by the above quote).

Oh. I didn't say anything about degree. It will likely be manslaughter.

154 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:07:52pm

re: #143 palomino

Of course that's true regarding the military. I always wondered why the right tried to use John Kerry's actions in Vietnam against him in 2004, given how much the right claims to support the troops (especially those with multiple combat decorations). One of the things Kerry was excoriated for during the campaign was killing an 18-year old North Vietnamese sniper by shooting him in the back as he fled after shooting at Kerry and his subordinates. There's nothing outrageous about what Kerry did; quite the opposite, it was his duty to act as he did.

Exactly. As a naval officer, John Kerry was fully justified in shooting that enemy combatant, even if he was fleeing. even in 2004, I believed that. But part of the reason I believed it is the same reason I brought up the qualification to begin with: I like to make all the angles and facets of a matter clear. This is due both to my own methodical nature and the fact that so many of my family members are lawyers or deal fairly closely with math (either directly or as part of computer science). As a result, I've developed a strong preference for making very clear what I mean and I try not to leave any major points unexplained, if when I safely can.

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:08:00pm

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:08:59pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

He was told not to pursue, but he pursued and shot.

I think that firing the gun was a reasonable indicator of intent to kill.

No, it's not. Firing the gun can happen in a lot of circumstances without intent to kill, including use during an altercation. That he started it doesn't mean he intended to shoot until the last moment. If the man is a coward and thought the kid was packing something, he would need to answer for starting the altercation, putting the kid into this position, etc. but it doesn't show the intent.

157 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:09:19pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I think there was a racial element to the shooting.

I think there was a racial element to the shooting regardless of how the shooter chooses to fill out his census form.

It's already racial. It's out there and I don't see, at this point, any way of pulling it back in, even if they do arrest him tomorrow. The problem isn't just his alleged racism, but that of a white community, white police and a white court system. This is how it's viewed.

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:10:18pm

re: #155 ggt

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

Hispanics are not Spanish.

159 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:10:49pm

Will you look at that...

In a closely watched conference call this morning, Apple announced plans to disperse tens of billions in cash in dividends and stock buy backs. But the company claims US corporate taxes are too high to consider repatriating to the US some $64 billion in cash held in offshore accounts.

More here.

Apple is going offshore. Going on the Grand Cayman Island Tour. Apple, meet your cousin, Mitt Romney.

160 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:11:17pm

This case is about a poor kid getting gunned down because he looked black and "suspicious".

I don't care if the perp was white, black, or [insert any race here], he should fry. Screw this - unless unexpected exonerating facts come in, this was just plain MURDER.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:12:51pm

re: #155 ggt

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

No, as it's used in the States it also refers to people of Indian and African blood, in various mixes.

Remember, Cameron Diaz, America Ferrara and Zoe Saldana are all Hispanic.

162 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:13:12pm

re: #155 ggt

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

it's usually used to mean anybody from a spanish or portuguese speaking country, which encompasses populations of european, native american, and african bloodlines

a twist is that 80 years ago black american musicians sometimes were able to play with european american bands by claiming to be 'cuban'...

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:14:16pm

re: #162 engineer cat

it's usually used to mean anybody from a spanish or portuguese speaking country, which encompasses populations of european, native american, and african bloodlines

a twist is that 80 years ago black american musicians sometimes were able to play with european american bands by claiming to be 'cuban'...

Hell, in "Uncle Tom's Cabin", Eliza's husband passes as 'Spanish' at one point to escape from slavery, IIRC.

164 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:14:36pm

re: #156 Tourquoise Supremacist

No, it's not. Firing the gun can happen in a lot of circumstances without intent to kill, including use during an altercation. That he started it doesn't mean he intended to shoot until the last moment. If the man is a coward and thought the kid was packing something, he would need to answer for starting the altercation, putting the kid into this position, etc. but it doesn't show the intent.

After reflection, I have to agree with you. Neither the call nor the decision to pursue prove an intent to kill beyond a reasonable doubt. They do show unlawful intent, and that may very well prove enough to convict Zimmerman of manslaughter. But murder will be harder to prove.

165 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:14:39pm

Walking Dead Spoiler Alert
If you haven't watched yet you'd best skip by
.....
....
..
.
..
Some interesting stuff in the last episode. I know my reviews have been the cause of outraugeous outrage by the more dimwitted members of my fan club. I was excited to see the survivors leave the farm in the hopes that the female characters would start to develop some depth instead of sitting around the farm fretting about their men out zombie hunting or lying in bed with a severe case of the vapors with a side of ennui or just getting pregnant. However as they're driving away from the farm one woman becomes so hysterical and irrational that her man has to take over the driving obligations. C'mon! If you're going to do a misogynistic zombie apocalypse fantasy at least do something interesting with it. The female characters stink!
/ let the downdings commence

166 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:14:44pm

Pow!

167 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:14:50pm

re: #158 Tourquoise Supremacist

Hispanics are not Spanish.

Spanish decent.

168 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:16:19pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, in "Uncle Tom's Cabin", Eliza's husband passes as 'Spanish' at one point to escape from slavery, IIRC.

Yeah, my Dad said of my friend's husband "he looks Spanish".

I cringed.

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:16:20pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

I want bad things happen to that guy since because of his actions a good kid lost his life. But I don't necessarily think he is an "evil evil". He's more likely "banally evil".

170 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:16:36pm

True Romance - Sicilians

171 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:17:26pm

re: #155 ggt

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

Hispanics are Spanish-speaking peoples or communities with roots amongst the Spanish-speaking people...which generally means communities/cultures that have been a part of Spanish colonialism at some point...ergo, in some part infused with the culture of Spain, and most decidedly with the language.

The term doesn't match up to race because the Spanish were just as diverse in their collection of subject peoples as the British and French, and because of slavery/peonage their movement of people created new communities with syncretic ethnic and cultural identities.

For example--Hispanic South America includes people who would be considered White, Black, "Asian," South American Native, as well as many folks who'd be considered a "Mixed" ethnicity like Creole or Mestizo. (Colonial Spaniards had some very precise designations for all the different mixes of white/black/native...some of the terms are still around).

Hispanic is a weird word. One could just as easily create a similar term encompassing English or French global cultural influence, and the ethnic blend each blanketed would be just as diverse.

172 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:17:33pm

Random vigilante.

Zimmerman also blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned.

The manual, from the National Neighborhood Watch Program, states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous...."

According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch Program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group -- another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.
[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:17:59pm

re: #167 ggt

Spanish decent.

Also indigenous descent, and some African descent. Which is why many Hispanics don't think of themselves as white. On the other hand, many do.

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:18:13pm
175 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:18:34pm

re: #155 ggt

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

Hispanics speak Spanish, but can be Mexican, Central or South American, African-Hispanic, Native Meso-American, Hispanic-Caribbean (like Cuban).

Immigrants whose origins are the country of Spain, I think are actually classified as White European.

Heh. I once met a guy, White immigrant from Capetown, who happily checked off all the boxes for "African-American" on some form he had to fill out. When he handed the forms back to the clerk, she snarled at him and said, "You're not African-American!" He said, "I was born in Africa and now I'm American, that makes me African-American!" She said, "no you're not, I am African-American." He said, "Ma'am, you are American, but I am more African than you are!"

176 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:19:04pm

re: #155 ggt

I thought Hispanics were *ahem* Spanish, which is European, which is White.

no?

No. Hispanic folks come in all skin shades, dark to light.

There's the folks in the Caribbean, Cubans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. There is also Latin America, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia, many countries. Also people are mixed with native peoples (what us white folks would call "Indian") so there are many variations of skin tone.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:19:32pm

re: #167 ggt

Spanish decent.

But not even all white Hispanic folks are Spanish. Argentina has a ton of Italians (and really good Italian food). Mexico has Germans. Everyone's got a weird assortment of Jews. There's a bunch of Turks and Arabs in various places.

178 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:19:34pm

Latino is in now. Folks barely call themselves Hispanic anymore. Latino.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:20:44pm

re: #171 The Ghost of a Flea

Hispanics are Spanish-speaking peoples...which generally means communities/cultures that have been a part of Spanish colonialism at some point...ergo, in some part infused with the culture of Spain, and most decidedly with the language.

The term doesn't match up to race because the Spanish were just as diverse in their collection of subject peoples as the British and French, and because of slavery/peonage their movement of people created new communities with syncretic ethnic and cultural identities.

For example--Hispanic South America includes people who would be considered White, Black, "Asian," South American Native, as well as many folks who'd be considered a "Mixed" ethnicity like Creole or Mestizo. (Colonial Spaniards had some very precise designations for all the different mixes of white/black/native...some of the terms are still around).

Hispanic is a weird word. One could just as easily create a similar term encompassing English or French global cultural influence, and the ethnic blend each blanketed would be just as diverse.

"Anglo" pretty much works the same way. You just don't know you're an Anglo unless you're in LA, Jerusalem, or Quebec.

180 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:20:48pm

re: #171 The Ghost of a Flea

Hispanics are Spanish-speaking peoples...which generally means communities/cultures that have been a part of Spanish colonialism at some point...ergo, in some part infused with the culture of Spain, and most decidedly with the language.

The term doesn't match up to race because the Spanish were just as diverse in their collection of subject peoples as the British and French, and because of slavery/peonage their movement of people created new communities with syncretic ethnic and cultural identities.

For example--Hispanic South America includes people who would be considered White, Black, "Asian," South American Native, as well as many folks who'd be considered a "Mixed" ethnicity like Creole or Mestizo. (Colonial Spaniards had some very precise designations for all the different mixes of white/black/native...some of the terms are still around).

Hispanic is a weird word. One could just as easily create a similar term encompassing English or French global cultural influence, and the ethnic blend each blanketed would be just as diverse.

Carlos Fuentes went into in detail in his book The Buried Mirror. The mental gymnastics involved in determining one's place in society was way beyond my capabilities.

181 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:20:51pm

re: #174 ggt

DOJ to look into Trayvon's death.

Good. Neighborhood Watch is a generally good and solid program - which is why this news isn't regular from them. I encourage people to be part of it - it's the kind of organization that PREVENTS injustices by excessive intervention from the Fed. Gov. and State Gov. when exercised PROPERLY.

182 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:21:26pm

re: #169 Tourquoise Supremacist

I want bad things happen to that guy since because of his actions a good kid lost his life. But I don't necessarily think he is an "evil evil". He's more likely "banally evil".

I think he's just fucked up. Has a gun and is in neighborhood watch. And he obviously loved the experience. Can't believe he wasn't on a watch list himself for so many 911's. He probably was, but they won't let that out.

Is there a crime called craven manslaughter? Should be.

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:22:00pm

Great. The Afghan shooter guy says he has amnesia.

184 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:22:42pm

re: #183 Tourquoise Supremacist

Great. The Afghan shooter guy says he has amnesia.

If it turns out he has a twin brother who used to be a twin sister reality will have finally jumped the shark.

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:24:20pm

re: #178 Gus

Latino is in now. Folks barely call themselves Hispanic anymore. Latino.

True, and that makes more sense --in a language sense. I see "Hispanic" and I think Hispanola --Spain. Not everyone in South and Central American is of Spanish decent.

I don't know, the whole thing confuses me. I find classifying everyone has "human" much, much easier.

186 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:24:24pm

re: #175 Learned Mother of Zion

Hispanics speak Spanish, but can be Mexican, Central or South American, African-Hispanic, Native Meso-American, Hispanic-Caribbean (like Cuban).

Immigrants whose origins are the country of Spain, I think are actually classified as White European.

Heh. I once met a guy, White immigrant from Capetown, who happily checked off all the boxes for "African-American" on some form he had to fill out. When he handed the forms back to the clerk, she snarled at him and said, "You're not African-American!" He said, "I was born in Africa and now I'm American, that makes me African-American!" She said, "no you're not, I am African-American." He said, "Ma'am, you are American, but I am more African than you are!"

hah

according to our american-style terminology, tho, he would have been european-african before he became african-american

i worked with a guy born in germany who's mother was czech. he told me that in germany he was german, but in america he was told that he was czech-german, which he thought was fucked up

187 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:24:27pm

re: #182 Oh geeze.

I think he's just fucked up. Has a gun and is in neighborhood watch. And he obviously loved the experience. Can't believe he wasn't on a watch list himself for so many 911's. He probably was, but they won't let that out.

Is there a crime called craven manslaughter? Should be.

He was a self-declared vigilante without the proper training. Should he be executed? No. But should he get hard prison time? Yes. He gunned down and murdered a poor kid based on his biases and excessive self-confidence - a main reason MANY people commit murder.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:24:56pm

re: #173 Tourquoise Supremacist

Also indigenous descent, and some African descent. Which is why many Hispanics don't think of themselves as white. On the other hand, many do.

And who does and who doesn't is often a matter of family, politics...not so much objective family history.

There's a wonderful pair of characters in Alisa Valdes Rodriguez's first novel. Amber is Chicana from California, thinks of herself as Native American, joins the Mexica movement, and changes her name to Cuicatl. Rebecca is from New Mexico, and believes that she is white, and European-American, since all of her ancestors, she believes, were white Spaniards. If you point out that she looks a little bit Pueblo, she explains kindly that they have Moorish blood.

Same basic ancestors, TOTALLY different take on it.

189 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:25:11pm

re: #178 Gus

Latino is in now. Folks barely call themselves Hispanic anymore. Latino.

Yes. THIS. I can't think of the last time I personally used the term "Hispanic" to describe myself. Latina, yes.

Why? Because someone who is Latino/a can be of any race. It's a cultural identifier, not a racial one.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:25:33pm

re: #175 Learned Mother of Zion

Hispanics speak Spanish, but can be Mexican, Central or South American, African-Hispanic, Native Meso-American, Hispanic-Caribbean (like Cuban).

Immigrants whose origins are the country of Spain, I think are actually classified as White European.

Heh. I once met a guy, White immigrant from Capetown, who happily checked off all the boxes for "African-American" on some form he had to fill out. When he handed the forms back to the clerk, she snarled at him and said, "You're not African-American!" He said, "I was born in Africa and now I'm American, that makes me African-American!" She said, "no you're not, I am African-American." He said, "Ma'am, you are American, but I am more African than you are!"

White Africans have trouble with that. Confuses them no end.

191 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:25:36pm

re: #185 ggt

True, and that makes more sense --in a language sense. I see "Hispanic" and I think Hispanola --Spain. Not everyone in South and Central American is of Spanish decent.

I don't know, the whole thing confuses me. I find classifying everyone has "human" much, much easier.

I judge by behavior. :) Guess one could classify along those lines too.

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:25:44pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

"Anglo" pretty much works the same way. You just don't know you're an Anglo unless you're in LA, Jerusalem, or Quebec.

Or where I live, Aurora, IL.

I think I'm generally referred to as "the old white lady".

193 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:26:02pm

But that is a good pic of Biden I must say.

Image: obama-biden-iphone-ipad-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

194 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:26:24pm

Tennessee has a 'Stand Your Ground' Law, too. I wonder what deadly intersections we're going to see in the near future.

195 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:26:27pm

re: #189 Lidane

Yes. THIS. I can't think of the last time I personally used the term "Hispanic" to describe myself. Latina, yes.

Why? Because someone who is Latino/a can be of any race. It's a cultural identifier, not a racial one.

I dream for the day we don't need "races" or "identifiers". Yes, I know it's a dream....

196 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:26:34pm

if i didn't know better i might very well think that a hispanic was somebody from the roman province of hispania

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:26:50pm

re: #193 Gus

Heh. I like the guy.

198 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:27:26pm

I just saw a trailer for the 3 Stooges movie.

God is dead.

199 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:28:55pm
At least 14 states have revised their laws to ensure that people don’t have to retreat from an attacker. Those states are: Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas, according to the NRA.

There is no way to tell exactly how many times the law has been used as a defense because the statutes are still too new to collect statistics.

Too confusing to explain?
In Kentucky, prosecutors offered a plea deal to a man they accused of murder because the statute was too confusing to explain to jurors.

Judge Sheila Isaac, who presided over the case, said the law apparently “went right through the Legislature without a single attorney looking at it.”

She said the law was addressing a problem that didn’t exist, a sentiment shared by law enforcement officials across the country.

“You just don’t see cases where people are prosecuted when they are defending themselves,” Isaac said.

Laws addressing nonexistent problems... where have we seen that before?

200 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:29:23pm

re: #195 SidewaysQuark

I dream for the day we don't need "races" or "identifiers". Yes, I know it's a dream...

Really, the only reason is medical. If there is a chance you are susceptible to sickle cell or whatever else might seem to be ancestry dependent. I guess if you are into genelogy, it would be important, but no more important than knowing your own family's history--as with genetics and diseases.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:29:45pm

re: #198 Kragar

I just saw a trailer for the 3 Stooges movie.

God is dead.

Heh. As someone who hasn't been raised with the 3 stooges I can't fully appreciate your pain, but I feel for you.

half-/

202 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:29:52pm

Dang it! Peyton Manning is going to sign with Denver..
I said here months ago.. Peyton is one of my most favorite Athletes of my lifetime..Whatever team he goes with I will follow and cheer, Because of who he is..
When I was a kid growing up my first love was the Raiders..Me and all my buddies in Napa loved..No adored..no worshiped the Raiders.. We hated Denver..I have always hated Denver.. And now..Peyton..Really? Denver?
You cut me man..You really cut me..
My new favorite team..( Somebody shoot me please..) :)

203 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:30:25pm

re: #199 jaunte

Laws addressing nonexistent problems... where have we seen that before?

I don't know. You think John Stossel would be on that. Not any more! It's sad seeing some of these guys go loonie tunes.

204 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:30:28pm

re: #200 ggt

Really, the only reason is medical. If there is a chance you are susceptible to sickle cell or whatever else might seem to be ancestry dependent. I guess if you are into genelogy, it would be important, but no more important than knowing your own family's history--as with genetics and diseases.

Yes, that's a VERY good point. Let the scientists and researchers do their thing, and the politicians and those without a vested interest ignore it, is my point.

205 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:30:52pm

re: #202 HoosierHoops

Dang it! Peyton Manning is going to sign with Denver..
I said here months ago.. Peyton is one of my most favorite Athletes of my lifetime..Whatever team he goes with I will follow and cheer, Because of who he is..
When I was a kid growing up my first love was the Raiders..Me and all my buddies in Napa loved..No adored..no worshiped the Raiders.. We hated Denver..I have always hated Denver.. And now..Peyton..Really? Denver?
You cut me man..You really cut me..
My new favorite team..( Somebody shoot me please..) :)

$90,000,000

206 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:31:36pm

re: #183 Tourquoise Supremacist

Great. The Afghan shooter guy says he has amnesia.

The more info comes out, the more it smells to me like there's more to this than just PTSD. Something's not right....

207 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:32:16pm

re: #162 engineer cat

it's usually used to mean anybody from a spanish or portuguese speaking country, which encompasses populations of european, native american, and african bloodlines

a twist is that 80 years ago black american musicians sometimes were able to play with european american bands by claiming to be 'cuban'...

This is more to ggt: A country is considered Hispanic if it was colonized by Spain at some point, but engineer cat's explanation is best as the various current populations encompass Africans from the slave trade and native peoples.

And I would add, no matter a person's skin color, most folks are proud of who they are. Least that's my experience. I don't find anything wrong with talking about our various unique heritages. We should spend more time sharing and learning than hating. What a novel idea.

And with that, I have a date with the sandman. I assume he's beige.

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:32:29pm

re: #204 SidewaysQuark

Yes, that's a VERY good point. Let the scientists and researchers do their thing, and the politicians and those without concern ignore it, is my point.

EVERYTHING seems to get politicized. Especially if there is science involved.

;(

209 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:32:57pm

Tennessee state Rep. David Hawk (R-Greenville), who supported a bill to allow guns in bars, was arrested on Sunday and charged with domestic assault on his wife.

210 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:33:03pm

re: #183 Tourquoise Supremacist

Great. The Afghan shooter guy says he has amnesia.

Well. We'll just have to remind him of what he did before we throw him into Leavenworth for life.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:33:10pm

re: #207 Madge

This is more to ggt: A country is considered Hispanic if it was colonized by Spain at some point, but engineer cat's explanation is best as the various current populations encompass Africans from the slave trade and native peoples.

And I would add, no matter a person's skin color, most folks are proud of who they are. Least that's my experience. I don't find anything wrong with talking about our various unique heritages. We should spend more time sharing and learning than hating. What a novel idea.

And with that, I have a date with the sandman. I assume he's beige.

As drawn by Neil Gaiman's collaborators, he's very, very white, although his race is not very clear.

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:33:10pm

re: #206 The Ghost of a Flea

Some Nazi?

213 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:33:34pm
214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:34:21pm

re: #209 jaunte

Tennessee state Rep. David Hawk (R-Greenville), who supported a bill to allow guns in bars, was arrested on Sunday and charged with domestic assault on his wife.

I've heard that there are still places in Wyoming (and such States) where you have to check your firearm at the door.

215 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:34:35pm

re: #204 SidewaysQuark

Yes, that's a VERY good point.

re: #208 ggt

EVERYTHING seems to get politicized. Especially if there is science involved.

;(

Well, I view the politicization of science as part of its SUCCESS - the philosophy obviously has endurance, thank God.

Such is life - have "faith" (whatever that is) that truth will endure. It has so far - (or at least seeped through the cracks....)

216 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:35:03pm

re: #212 Tourquoise Supremacist

Some Nazi?

I was actually picturing something like that earlier. Like the first day of the Nuremberg Trials. Nazi defendant goes up to the stand and then claims that he "didn't remember" or that he was "under a lot of stress."

217 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:35:17pm

re: #184 jamesfirecat

If it turns out he has a twin brother who used to be a twin sister reality will have finally jumped the shark.

Don't forget the innocent women and children killed. I don't give a fuck who he was. He's a bad man.

218 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:35:25pm

re: #205 Gus

$90,000,000

I heard 95M for 5 years..But this is Football.. Only guarantee money counts.. You know..This changes everything in Football..Who knows what will happen with Peyton with a real world Defense.. The Colts never gave that to him..He'd have to score 38 points every week to win..

219 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:35:37pm

re: #195 SidewaysQuark

I dream for the day we don't need "races" or "identifiers". Yes, I know it's a dream...

Kang and Kodos are working on that...
/

220 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:35:47pm

re: #9 jaunte

Breitbart.com still flatlining: [Link: www.quantcast.com...]

Hang on...you mean we're giving a fuck about a site that gets barely 300 fucking hits a day? I think it's time we ignored anything with that now dead gross fat fuck's name attached. All we're doing is giving his successors traffic.

221 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:36:56pm

re: #205 Gus

$90,000,000

if i had $90,000,000 i'd have to hire somebody to tell me what to do with the last $80,000,000

222 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:37:20pm

re: #199 jaunte

Laws addressing nonexistent problems... where have we seen that before?

I live on the Indiana/Kentucky border, and I stay way away from open carriers. I keep on hearing about responsible people who take the burden seriously, but I keep encountering people who seem to enjoy the reaction they get to carrying a firearm on display. Lots of swaggering and talking big (including militia-ish "I'm prepared for when they come for out guns" talk).

Not people I want to ever be around should they draw that weapon: good marksmanship is no compensation for shitty judgement and no observation skills. Hitting a target means FA if you lack the perceptual and rational faculties to meaningful assess a situation's threat and react in a timely manner.

223 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:37:23pm

re: #205 Gus

$90,000,000

Geeze...for 90 million he'd better give some pretty fucking good head.

224 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:37:30pm

re: #193 Gus

But that is a good pic of Biden I must say.

Image: obama-biden-iphone-ipad-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

I feel safe with these intellectuals in office.

That's what I see in that photo.

225 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:37:54pm

re: #221 engineer cat

if i had $90,000,000 i'd have to hire somebody to tell me what to do with the last $80,000,000

Why on earth would you want to employ Mitt Romney?

226 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:37:57pm

re: #214 ggt

I've heard that there are still places in Wyoming (and such States) where you have to check your firearm at the door.

Well, is owning a firearm "bad"? I don't think it is. Maybe I'm more 'conservative' (whatever that means any more) than the typical person here. I don't own one, but I view it as a fundamental right. Yes, they're dangerous, but so is free speech (and its consequences), fireworks, swimming pools, and space heaters - let the folks check them at the door and be done with it, I say.....

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:38:03pm

Is it just me, or would much, much be clearer about this tragedy in Florida if both the shooter and the deceased had been drug/alcohol tested?

228 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:38:14pm

re: #202 HoosierHoops

Dang it! Peyton Manning is going to sign with Denver..
I said here months ago.. Peyton is one of my most favorite Athletes of my lifetime..Whatever team he goes with I will follow and cheer, Because of who he is..
When I was a kid growing up my first love was the Raiders..Me and all my buddies in Napa loved..No adored..no worshiped the Raiders.. We hated Denver..I have always hated Denver.. And now..Peyton..Really? Denver?
You cut me man..You really cut me..
My new favorite team..( Somebody shoot me please..) :)

Look on the bright side: Denver is closer to Norman than Indy, quite a lot closer.

229 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:38:44pm

re: #227 ggt

Is it just me, or would much, much be clearer about this tragedy in Florida if both the shooter and the deceased had been drug/alcohol tested?

Sorry, too much reason, tuning out! ///

230 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:38:47pm

re: #225 darthstar

Why on earth would you want to employ Mitt Romney?

If I had 90 million I'd put most of money offshore just like Apple.

:P

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:39:09pm

re: #226 SidewaysQuark

Well, is owning a firearm "bad"? I don't think it is. Maybe I'm more 'conservative' (whatever that means any more) than the typical person here. I don't own one, but I view it as a fundamental right. Yes, they're dangerous, but so is free speech (and its consequences), fireworks, swimming pools, and space heaters - let the folks check them at the door and be done with it, I say...

Alcohol and guns do not mix.

I say check them at the door and claim them in the morning.

232 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:39:17pm

re: #230 Gus

If I had 90 million I'd put most of money offshore just like Apple.

:P

Fiona?

233 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:39:22pm

re: #227 ggt

Is it just me, or would much, much be clearer about this tragedy in Florida if both the shooter and the deceased had been drug/alcohol tested?

Would that change anything? The situation is what matters, period.

234 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:39:32pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Look on the bright side: Denver is closer to Norman than Indy, quite a lot closer.

And I guess the final decision was made that Tebow was not the future at Denver. I presume he'll land on his feet (or a kneeling position) with some other team.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:40:15pm

re: #231 ggt

Alcohol and guns do not mix.

I say check them at the door and claim them in the morning.

BTW, does intoxication count as an aggravating circumstance in the US?

236 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:40:15pm

re: #212 Tourquoise Supremacist

Some Nazi?

My Godwin device is at the shop for repairs. I just have a bad feeling--pure unquantified gut feeling--and would be delighted to be wrong.

237 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:40:34pm

re: #225 darthstar

Why on earth would you want to employ Mitt Romney?

Because he'd be able to invest your money smartly and use it to make you even more money. He proved to be really good at that.

238 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:40:37pm

re: #232 darthstar

Fiona?

The one in Cupertino.

239 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:40:48pm

re: #231 ggt

Alcohol and guns do not mix.

I say check them at the door and claim them in the morning.

True that. I think if you want to drink with a gun, do it at home. Even then you SHOULDN'T, but it's not the government's business, then.....

240 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:40:59pm

re: #234 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And I guess the final decision was made that Tebow was not the future at Denver. I presume he'll land on his feet (or a kneeling position) with some other team.

Just don't send that genuflecting fucker to Minnesota...my Vikings don't need no stinking jesus freak soiling their image.

241 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:41:07pm

re: #233 SidewaysQuark

Would that change anything? The situation is what matters, period.

I think it would tell us a lot about what frame of mind each party was in at the time.

242 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:42:10pm

re: #231 ggt

Alcohol and guns do not mix.

I say check them at the door and claim them in the morning.

I say give a Breathalyser test to those leaving who checked a gun. If they are under the legal limit to drive, return the gun right then. That's fair enough.

243 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:42:14pm

re: #202 HoosierHoops

Dang it! Peyton Manning is going to sign with Denver..
I said here months ago.. Peyton is one of my most favorite Athletes of my lifetime..Whatever team he goes with I will follow and cheer, Because of who he is..
When I was a kid growing up my first love was the Raiders..Me and all my buddies in Napa loved..No adored..no worshiped the Raiders.. We hated Denver..I have always hated Denver.. And now..Peyton..Really? Denver?
You cut me man..You really cut me..
My new favorite team..( Somebody shoot me please..) :)

I'm going to suffer the Tebow martyrdom. It will be. For awhile. Then he will kick ass.

I hope Peyton's neck is really ok. I think back to Drew Brees' shoulder and how the Chargers let him get away.

244 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:42:19pm

re: #241 ggt

I think it would tell us a lot about what frame of mind each party was in at the time.

Does the frame of mind matter, or the act committed? What matters is the man gunned the kid down. That's what matters.

245 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:42:32pm

re: #235 Tourquoise Supremacist

BTW, does intoxication count as an aggravating circumstance in the US?

Good question. All I know is that growing-up and in my house currently, no alcohol when guns are present.

It seems to be a meme with the gun nuts. At least, the ones I know. I know it's not allowed at any of the clubs or ranges I've been to. Posted on signs and everything.

246 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:42:35pm

Well. With Peyton Manning on the team we'll be able to bring back the Separation of Church and Broncos.

//

247 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:42:58pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Look on the bright side: Denver is closer to Norman than Indy, quite a lot closer.

I hate you D_F..LOL
I'll never ever ever go to Denver to see a game..I get free Tickets I'm selling them on Ebay.. You know..It could be a Manning vs. Manning SuperBowl this year.. I'm rooting for the freaking Giants

248 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:43:07pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

I say give a Breathalyser test to those leaving who checked a gun. If they are under the legal limit to drive, return the gun right then. That's fair enough.

Sounds fair to me.

249 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:43:49pm

re: #223 darthstar

Geeze...for 90 million he'd better give some pretty fucking good head.

Well, his neck is repaired.... but I'm not going there. Nope.

Not at all.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:43:52pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

I say give a Breathalyser test to those leaving who checked a gun. If they are under the legal limit to drive, return the gun right then. That's fair enough.

Then it puts the liabilty on the bar owner. Well, the whole situation would be a legal mess if a crime were committed. Makes my brain hurt.

251 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:44:21pm

re: #240 darthstar

Just don't send that genuflecting fucker to Minnesota...my Vikings don't need no stinking jesus freak soiling their image.

No, the Bears, Packers, and Lions will do all the soiling that needs to be done when they grind the Vikings into the dirt this coming season. Enjoy your losses!

/Go Bears!

252 freetoken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:44:30pm

I see it's been a day full of American reactionary hate and derpitude all over the net.

Fortunately, there's DWTS to set the universe right again.

253 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:45:58pm

re: #151 Tourquoise Supremacist

It's a piece of evidence, but that's that. Save for an unlikely confession, the only thing they have is that he was advised to not pursue by the cops, as Gus points out. But they won't prove he shot with intent to murder. And, strictly speaking, we don't know that he actually wanted to murder him. That's not the point. The point is that at the very least he should answer heavily for criminal negligence/manslaughter (and negligence seems to be excluded by the above quote).

Multiple callers to 911 report that someone (and most indicated that it was the voice of a man) was yelling "Help! Help!" shortly before the gunshot. That's the sort of evidence that no one is going to able to spin much, I think. (I'm assuming it was Trayvon Martin that was screaming for help.)

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:46:25pm

This by itself indicates that GZ has something to hide, though. He obviously lied to the police in part:

Volunteer George Zimmerman, 28, told police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon jumped him from behind and attacked him, police said. He said he feared for his life and fired a semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry, because he feared for his life...

[Link: www.sun-sentinel.com...]

255 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:46:33pm

re: #249 Kronocide

Well, his neck is repaired... but I'm not going there. Nope.

Not at all.

And its kind of absurd talking that way about Peyton Manning, who is no the sort to end up in a sex scandal. Very much the straight-laced but omnicompetent fellow, that one.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:47:07pm

Ok, as I understand it, a homeowner and member of the neighborhood watch shot and killed a youth walking in his neighborhood. He called 911 beforehand and was told to back-off (or something to that effect).

He is guilty of something in relation to this young man's death because he didn't do what law enforcement told him. He had no business being close enough to this young man to feel the young man was a threat.

Do I have this clear?

257 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:47:20pm

re: #227 ggt

Is it just me, or would much, much be clearer about this tragedy in Florida if both the shooter and the deceased had been drug/alcohol tested?

The Sanford police dept. fucked this up to get it to where it is now. The dropped the ball big time.

258 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:48:05pm

re: #254 Tourquoise Supremacist

This by itself indicates that GZ has something to hide, though. He obviously lied to the police in part:

[Link: www.sun-sentinel.com...]

First time I ever heard that. And the 911 call doesn't even audibly corroborate that.

259 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:48:21pm

re: #246 Gus

Well. With Peyton Manning on the team we'll be able to bring back the Separation of Church and Broncos.

I'm really hoping for a Tebow led 49er team. The Horrahr will be Magnafilicious.

260 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:48:31pm

Already changing his story. Classic.

261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:48:34pm

re: #254 Tourquoise Supremacist

This by itself indicates that GZ has something to hide, though. He obviously lied to the police in part:

[Link: www.sun-sentinel.com...]

He lived in the neighborhood, and was a experienced member of the neighborhood watch and didn't know what street he was on?

I'm not buying it.

262 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:48:40pm

re: #254 Tourquoise Supremacist

This by itself indicates that GZ has something to hide, though. He obviously lied to the police in part:

[Link: www.sun-sentinel.com...]

If he lied to the police, then he should be in trouble no matter what the outcome of the investigation into the shooting. If he lied to the police, then he should be charged with having done so.

263 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:49:07pm

re: #235 Tourquoise Supremacist

BTW, does intoxication count as an aggravating circumstance in the US?

If you are homeless and facing a paranoid cop? Just fricken google it. Many dead drunks.

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:49:08pm

re: #253 abolitionist

Multiple callers to 911 report that someone (and most indicated that it was the voiced of a man) was yelling "Help! Help!" shortly before the gunshot. That's the sort of evidence that no one is going to able to spin much, I think. (I'm assuming it was Treyvon Martin that was screaming for help.)

If there was a physical altercation, with both sides thinking of the other as criminal, this is still compatible with this situation. Note that I don't want to defend GZ, but I have to think in terms set by the DOJ - proof beyond the reasonable doubt.

265 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:50:21pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

And its kind of absurd talking that way about Peyton Manning...

Oh hell yes it is, that's why it's funny. But Darth started it

266 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:50:44pm

re: #259 Kronocide

I'm really hoping for a Tebow led 49er team. The Horrahr will be Magnafilicious.

San Francisco would not really want him, and he would not really want SanFran. Its the wrong kind of place for someone with Tim Tebow's views and lifestyle. Doesn't mean either Tebow or Frisco is bad, just that they aren't really compatible.

267 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:53:09pm

The main culprits here are those who make such mushy laws that prevent a more thorough investigation by the local police if a suspect merely pleads self-defense. There will always be bad actors. Bad laws make life easier for them.

268 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:53:11pm

re: #263 Oh geeze.

If you are homeless and facing a paranoid cop? Just fricken google it. Many dead drunks.

Yes, but much of that isn't really paranoia. Both cops and civilians have been severely injured by mentally ill homeless people, and many such homeless drink as a method of self-medicating. Cops know this, and it conditions their actions.

269 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:53:33pm

re: #260 Gus

Already changing his story. Classic.

A neighborhood watch volunteer with a long history of calling in everything from open garage doors to "suspicious characters" called police to say he spotted someone who looked drugged, was walking too slowly in the rain, and appeared to be looking at people's houses. Zimmerman sounded alarmed, because the stranger had his hand in his waistband and had something in his other hand.

The unarmed teen carried Skittles and Arizona iced tea.

Volunteer George Zimmerman, 28, told police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon jumped him from behind and attacked him, police said. He said he feared for his life and fired a semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry, because he feared for his life.

So he was alarmed by someone walking too slowly, and stepped out of his truck, and turned his back on the "threat."

270 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:53:58pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

San Francisco would not really want him, and he would not really want SanFran. Its the wrong kind of place for someone with Tim Tebow's views and lifestyle. Doesn't mean either Tebow or Frisco is bad, just that they aren't really compatible.

And that's why it would be Magnalicious. Prince o' the Knee in the Land of Sodomites! My 49er buddies would be mortified, I would be endlessly entertained.

He'd probably fit better with the Raiders.

271 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:54:35pm

re: #267 Tourquoise Supremacist

The main culprits here are those who make such mushy laws that prevent a more thorough investigation by the local police if a suspect merely pleads self-defense. There will always be bad actors. Bad laws make life easier for them.

Cop pulls up...

"You shot him?"

"Yep, he lunged at me."

"OK. You gonna make it home alright?"

272 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:54:52pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

And its kind of absurd talking that way about Peyton Manning, who is no the sort to end up in a sex scandal. Very much the straight-laced but omnicompetent fellow, that one.

The Manning Family represents everything that is good about Sports and Humanity. I read their book years ago.. Just awesome and inspiring.
Now some years ago my little brother met Peyton at a Charity event..
I talked to him on the phone..
You met Peyton!!
Yes.
So how did it go??
He is an Assh*le..
What?
Yeah..He is an ass.. Period
To everybody?
No.. Just me.. I don't get it..
What did you say?
I don't remember bro.. But he is an ass trust me..

273 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:54:54pm

re: #267 Tourquoise Supremacist

The main culprits here are those who make such mushy laws that prevent a more thorough investigation by the local police if a suspect merely pleads self-defense. There will always be bad actors. Bad laws make life easier for them.

The law should be clarified, I can accept that. Make clear that "stand your ground" does not confer a right to pursue. Only the police are have that power.

274 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:55:21pm

re: #269 jaunte

So he was alarmed by someone walking too slowly, and stepped out of his truck, and turned his back on the "threat."

A likely story.

275 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:55:57pm

re: #274 Gus

It's ridiculous. An eight year old could make up a better one.

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:56:09pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

San Francisco would not really want him, and he would not really want SanFran. Its the wrong kind of place for someone with Tim Tebow's views and lifestyle. Doesn't mean either Tebow or Frisco is bad, just that they aren't really compatible.

I don't know if any of the guys we have on the team now are particularly San Franciscan types. I think it would work fine.

277 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:56:30pm

bbiab

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:56:38pm

re: #270 Kronocide

And that's why it would be Magnalicious. Prince o' the Knee in the Land of Sodomites! My 49er buddies would be mortified, I would be endlessly entertained.

He'd probably fit better with the Raiders.

Too clean-cut for Raider Nation.

279 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:56:48pm
280 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:57:08pm

Michelle Obama on Letterman.... starting now in eastern time zone.

281 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:57:09pm

re: #267 Tourquoise Supremacist

The main culprits here are those who make such mushy laws that prevent a more thorough investigation by the local police if a suspect merely pleads self-defense. There will always be bad actors. Bad laws make life easier for them.

Dead good kid. Grieving parents. Who feel lost, no hope.

JOHN DOE FOR 3 DAYS. They could not get his damn body without going through a fricken police bureaucracy. That was protecting itself.

shame

282 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:57:33pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

Because he'd be able to invest your money smartly and use it to make you even more money. He proved to be really good at that.

Bullshit...he hasn't actually 'worked' for a good 20 years now. He wouldn't know what to do with a portfolio if someone came up to him and said, "Help me hide this pile of cash."

283 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:57:56pm

re: #281 Oh geeze.

:(

284 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:58:07pm

re: #272 HoosierHoops

On a related note, Tebow's overly showy religiousity ticks me off. Thank god he leaves CO.

285 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:58:16pm

re: #249 Kronocide

Well, his neck is repaired... but I'm not going there. Nope.

Not at all.

His neck is repaired until the first pre-season hit.

286 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:58:42pm
287 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:59:31pm

I don't know about you but that sounds pretty damning to me. If I was on a jury and heard that...

"Why would this man just shoot him?"

288 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:59:36pm

re: #267 Tourquoise Supremacist

The main culprits here are those who make such mushy laws that prevent a more thorough investigation by the local police if a suspect merely pleads self-defense. There will always be bad actors. Bad laws make life easier for them.

The laws aren't that mushy, it's the local PD is that incompetent and/or lazy and/or racist. .

Dead kid, man standing over him with smoking gun, and they don't think they need to do a blood test, pick up shell casings, test whether it's his blood or the dead kid's on his shirt....

289 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 8:59:59pm

re: #226 SidewaysQuark

Well, is owning a firearm "bad"? I don't think it is. Maybe I'm more 'conservative' (whatever that means any more) than the typical person here. I don't own one, but I view it as a fundamental right. Yes, they're dangerous, but so is free speech (and its consequences), fireworks, swimming pools, and space heaters - let the folks check them at the door and be done with it, I say...

As a gun owner from a family of gun owners, I'd say that firearm ownership is legally a fundamental right, but that this is non sequitor to the actual discipline of firearm ownership.

What I don't like about the US dialogue on the subject is the legal right has become conflated with an entitlement to irresponsibly wield a killing tool as though that choice has no ramifications for ones neighbors and kin. Fetishization of the gun is inversely proportional to respect for its actual function.

290 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:00:23pm

14 years with parole up at 8. Maximum security.

291 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:00:43pm

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but much of that isn't really paranoia. Both cops and civilians have been severely injured by mentally ill homeless people, and many such homeless drink as a method of self-medicating. Cops know this, and it conditions their actions.

Oh, the Cops have the upper hand. They can control the weak of this society. But that takes thought and care. They just shoot.

292 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:00:45pm

re: #265 Kronocide

Oh hell yes it is, that's why it's funny. But Darth started it

I blame the Broncos. I stopped hating Peyton Manning when he announced his retirement a few weeks ago...now that he's signed with Denver, I'll have to hate him for another season. And I don't care if he gives crappy head.

293 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:01:03pm

re: #284 ProGunLiberal

On a related note, Tebow's overly showy religiousity ticks me off. Thank god he leaves CO.

Cut him a break, PLL. He doesn't hurt anyone, and he does active serve in charitable causes, as opposed to just giving money money. Tebow's a good egg.

294 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:01:40pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

Because he'd be able to invest your money smartly and use it to make you even more money. He proved to be really good at that.

Same can be said about Donald Trump and Bernie Madoff.

Trump/Madoff 2012!

295 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:02:07pm

As an aside: a relatively recently banned old lizard used to praise Charles in no uncertain terms. Now that he is on the other side, he makes a point to mock him. There's something pathological about that.

296 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:02:27pm

re: #294 palomino

Romney would steal from you just as fast as Trump or Madoff would.

297 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:04:36pm

re: #295 Tourquoise Supremacist

As an aside: a relatively recently banned old lizard used to praise Charles in no uncertain terms. Now that he is on the other side, he makes a point to mock him. There's something pathological about that.

It's kind of weird to be around that too. I guess I've seen this kind of thing before though. This group of friends that hates their old friends and won't stop complaining about them. I think that was in high school.

298 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:04:59pm

re: #291 Oh geeze.

Oh, the Cops have the upper hand. They can control the weak of this society. But that takes thought and care. They just shoot.

It also often takes backup the cop may not have. "Homeless" does not mean physically weak, and if someone who seems crazed and out of control lunges at a cop, the officer may well have no choice.

299 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:05:37pm

re: #295 Tourquoise Supremacist

As an aside: a relatively recently banned old lizard used to praise Charles in no uncertain terms. Now that he is on the other side, he makes a point to mock him. There's something pathological about that.

Walter?

300 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:06:32pm

Here's another African American Blog blaming the Jooz:

[Link: www.dominionofnewyork.com...]

If Trayvon Martin had “stood his ground,” he would be on his way to the pen, whereas Zimmerman, as an affluent Jewish person, had little doubt to believe that the court system would see it any other way.

Why do some in the AA community feel a need to make this guy Jewish? There are Jewish and non-Jewish Zimmerman's and nowhere has this been identified as Jewish.

301 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:06:36pm

re: #298 Dark_Falcon

Russia has sent anti-terror troops to Syria.

Our job in the Middle East just got a lot easier in some ways. And this is going to bite Russia in the ass eventually.

302 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:07:09pm

re: #296 darthstar

Romney would steal from you just as fast as Trump or Madoff would.

Bullshit! Mitt Romney has never stolen money from or otherwise defrauded anyone. Don't attack a man for wrongs he has not committed. It is unjust and makes you look like an asshole.

303 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:07:14pm

re: #243 Oh geeze.

I'm going to suffer the Tebow martyrdom. It will be. For awhile. Then he will kick ass.

I hope Peyton's neck is really ok. I think back to Drew Brees' shoulder and how the Chargers let him get away.

Tebow's got lots of heart and guts; and he runs really well for a QB.

But no QB "kicks ass" in the NFL with his (lack of) throwing ability. He ranked 28 of 32 in QB rating. Even worse, he was dead last among starters in completion percentage...at 46.5%, which is truly atrocious. Very unlikely that he develops an NFL arm at his age. John Elway's no idiot. He can see Tebow's glaring limitations.

304 freetoken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:07:33pm

In case anyone missed this earlier today:


Evolution and climate change in schools again center of legislation

The ongoing fight over what should and shouldn't be taught in Tennessee classrooms is under discussion again in the legislature.

Two subjects at the center of the debate--evolution and climate change.

Supporters of a bill passed Monday in the senate say it is about having critical thinking in science. [...]

More here:


Anti-evolution class discussions get Senate's OK

[...]

The Senate voted 24-8 for HB368, which sponsor Sen. Bo Watson, R-Hixson, says will provide guidelines for teachers answering students' questions about evolution, global warming and other scientific subjects. Critics call it a "monkey bill" that promotes creationism in classrooms.

The bill was approved in the House last year but now must return to that body for concurrence on a Senate amendment that made generally minor changes. One says the law applies to scientific theories that are the subject of "debate and disputation" — a phrase replacing the word "controversial" in the House version.

The measure also guarantees that teachers will not be subject to discipline for engaging students in discussion of questions they raise, though Watson said the idea is to provide guidelines so that teachers will bring the discussion back to the subjects authorized for teaching in the curriculum approved by the state Board of Education.

All eight no votes came from Democrats, some of whom raised questions about the bill during brief debate.

[...]

This is America.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:07:36pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

Walter didn't use to praise Charles. albusteve, however, did.

306 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:08:08pm

re: #301 ProGunLiberal

Russia has sent anti-terror troops to Syria.

Our job in the Middle East just got a lot easier in some ways. And this is going to bite Russia in the ass eventually.

I wonder what their mission brief really is. They may not be entirely friendly to Assad.

307 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:08:54pm

re: #305 Tourquoise Supremacist

Walter didn't use to praise Charles. albusteve, however, did.

Damn. Sad to see.

308 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:09:21pm

re: #296 darthstar

Romney would steal from you just as fast as Trump or Madoff would.

No, no, when Perry and Gingrich accused him of "vulture capitalism", they were dead wrong. Bain Capital was a humanitarian organization, didn't you know that?

309 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:10:01pm

re: #300 ReamWorks

Why do some in the AA community feel a need to make this guy Jewish? There are Jewish and non-Jewish Zimmerman's and nowhere has this been identified as Jewish.

There are antisemites in AA community, like elsewhere. This is not news.

310 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:10:51pm

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

True. However, knowing Putin, I have little hope. Time to reform the Immigration system and try and find a way to allow refugees to settle Detroit.

However, Russia will eventually pay a stunning price for this. I expect that, as Russia's population dwindles, the Arabs might pay Russia back by trying to help the Caucasus region to secede.

311 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:11:41pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Bullshit! Mitt Romney has never stolen money from or otherwise defrauded anyone.

Don't stop believin'...stand by your man.

312 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:12:19pm

re: #309 Tourquoise Supremacist

Except it's frustrating when the guy isn't even Jewish! I know several Zimmermann's, all not Jewish. Like this guy:

[Link: www.econ.uconn.edu...]

313 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:13:01pm

I was never close and no matter how hard you try sometimes the feral cat will not want to be your friend.

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:13:15pm

re: #312 ReamWorks

Except it's frustrating when the guy isn't even Jewish! I know several Zimmermann's, all not Jewish. Like this guy:

[Link: www.econ.uconn.edu...]

We're talking about antisemites, not rational humans.

315 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:14:12pm

It's kind of funny though because "he" used to harp on my about talking about "them" all the time which of course is not true and now he's "there" talking about "us" all the time. Yeah. Karma's a bitch sometimes.

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:14:29pm

re: #300 ReamWorks

Here's another African American Blog blaming the Jooz:

[Link: www.dominionofnewyork.com...]

If Trayvon Martin had “stood his ground,” he would be on his way to the pen, whereas Zimmerman, as an affluent Jewish person, had little doubt to believe that the court system would see it any other way.

Why do some in the AA community feel a need to make this guy Jewish? There are Jewish and non-Jewish Zimmerman's and nowhere has this been identified as Jewish.

White supremacists are also all over this. Absolves the white race of responsibility, dont'cha know.

It's a common German name, so far I've seen nothing to indicate either way.

317 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:14:52pm

re: #280 sagehen

Michelle Obama on Letterman... starting now in eastern time zone.

Hannity is trying to make a big deal about her being on because Letterman was mean to Palin. He's going on about the Democrat War on Women. It's pathetic and Kristen Powers is helping him. They are even claiming that Democrats attacked Hillary and Republicans defended her. I'm done with her. Are there any real Democrats on FOX?

318 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:15:37pm

Was Walter banned?

I thought he was in self-imposed exile.

319 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:15:42pm

re: #316 SanFranciscoZionist

White supremacists are also all over this. Absolves the white race of responsibility, dont'cha know.

It's a common German name, so far I've seen nothing to indicate either way.

Yep. I grew up in Joisy as you know. Plenty of Lutheran Zimmermans.

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:16:02pm

re: #315 Gus

Yeah, I noticed the irony too.

321 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:16:06pm

re: #314 Tourquoise Supremacist

We're talking about antisemites, not rational humans.

Given all my Zimmerman cousins (who are all Catholics) I find this a pretty laughable claim as well.

322 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:16:15pm

re: #317 moderatelyradicalliberal

They have to keep the argument focused on celebrity-bashing, and try to ignore the wave of anti-woman legislation.

323 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:16:25pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

San Francisco would not really want him, and he would not really want SanFran. Its the wrong kind of place for someone with Tim Tebow's views and lifestyle. Doesn't mean either Tebow or Frisco is bad, just that they aren't really compatible.

The San Francisco 49ers would give the left nuts of every line man they have to get Tebow...the city would love him, even with his overtly superstitious religous affectations. You assume SF is a filled with anti-Christian heathens - because that's what you assume...I only wish you were right. We've got enough fucked up people who think like a native flyover state dweller already...Tebow would only add to that fucked-up factor.

324 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:17:29pm

re: #311 darthstar

You made a very serious allegation. Either put up some evidence to back it up, or admit you made the argument without any evidence. Otherwise, feel free to Fuck Off.

325 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:17:50pm

re: #320 Tourquoise Supremacist

Yeah, I noticed the irony too.

Hey I played it cool. I won't forget some of the crap he laid on me last Summer. Whatever I thought. Like I said the other night. I don't wake up in the morning thinking about getting back at anyone on line. Way too much a USENET mentality for my tastes.

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:18:21pm

re: #304 freetoken

In case anyone missed this earlier today:

Evolution and climate change in schools again center of legislation

More here:

Anti-evolution class discussions get Senate's OK

This is America.

Do anti-evolution class discussions ever go beyond: "some people think an a supernatural being pooped the universe and all it's inhabitants?"

Which is about how I interpret Creationism.

327 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:19:14pm

re: #322 jaunte

They have to keep the argument focused on celebrity-bashing, and try to ignore the wave of anti-woman legislation.

That's why I'm done with Powers, not that I was ever a fan. I always found her weak and easily bullied, but the fact that she never brought up the laws that the GOP is passing and that that's the real War on Women is unforgivable in my opinion. She sucks and she sold out.

328 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:19:42pm

re: #313 Gus

I was never close and no matter how hard you try sometimes the feral cat will not want to be your friend.

It's a cat. It's not about whether it wants to be your friend, it is whether you meet the cat's demanding requirements to serve as its staff.

329 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:20:51pm

re: #286 Gus

911 call: "Why would this man just shoot him?"

From your link:

If the state attorney's office declines to file charges against Zimmerman, that means federal authorities might step in to file any number of charges, including a hate crime. They might also investigate allegations of police misconduct, including a charge by one eyewitness that an officer on the scene of Martin's shooting told her to change her story. The witness says she stated that Martin had been screaming for help before he was shot, but that the officer "corrected" her and insisted it was Zimmerman who'd called for help, according to ABC News.

This confirms my guess that it was Martin screaming for help. And some of that screaming was recorded on at least one 911 call, along with the gunshot.

330 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:21:33pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

Because he'd be able to invest your money smartly and use it to make you even more money. He proved to be really good at that.

While fucking over the employees of those companies, of course! Can't forget the fucking, that's essential to the modern conservative, money always beats people, fucks them, and leaves them for dead, that's the Republican way

fire the little people, raid their retirement, sell the assets, raze the headquarters, pocket the difference and be home in time for corn flakes

331 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:21:37pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

You made a very serious allegation. Either put up some evidence to back it up, or admit you made the argument without any evidence. Otherwise, feel free to Fuck Off.

All corporate-types steal, legally.

Don't you understand?

Sometimes I think that is the main difference between political views, one side thinks that the men in the suits from the corporation are stealing their money and the other side thinks it's the men in suits from the government.

It's the price of the suits that makes the difference.

I, personally, could be accused of "stealing" my husband's money, but it's not true. We made an agreement before we got married about it. It's all mine. That way, I'd lose big time in a divorce.

20 years later, it seems to have worked.

:0

332 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:22:10pm

re: #311 darthstar

Don't stop believin'...stand by your man.

[Embedded content]

Romney's not a crook. He's just a shameless panderer, blatant liar, and has no political core or real principles that anyone (including most Republicans) can identify.

333 freetoken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:22:39pm

re: #326 ggt

As a writer put it last week in Psychology Today:

[...]

Although I myself am an academic and a humanist, I actually agree with Rick Santorum on this issue. The controversy should be taught and understood by all educated Americans because it lies at the very heart of the deepest ideological disagreements of our nation. An important point of difference I have with Santorum is that I think the controversy should be taught in social studies and political science classes, rather than biology. This is because the real controversy is in the domain of politics and the ideological direction of the country, not in biological science.

[...]


4. The controversy surrounding evolution is largely a political phenomenon and is directly tied to the clash between a traditional Christian narrative and the view of life afforded by evolution. The two most polarized views, YEC and exclusionary naturalism, agree on this point, whereas theistic evolutionists believe both the JudeoChristian narrative and the evolutionary narrative are somehow true.

[...]

The "traditional Chrisitian narrative" has been dominant in the US since the founding of the colonies. It doesn't want to die a natural death, though it has been supplanted by a more modern set of ideas.

Creationist culture warriors don't usually spend time on the nitty gritty details of the "creation" event itself.

334 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:23:57pm

re: #332 moderatelyradicalliberal

Romney's not a crook. He's just a shameless panderer, blatant liar, and has no political core or real principles that anyone (including most Republicans) can identify.

Exactly. Romney's problem isn't Bain Capital. It's that he's one big lump of insincerity.

335 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:24:39pm

re: #312 ReamWorks

Except it's frustrating when the guy isn't even Jewish! I know several Zimmermann's, all not Jewish. Like this guy:

[Link: www.econ.uconn.edu...]

I think it's a bad enough tragedy...just because the guy's name is Zimmerman doesn't mean Judaism needs to be defended...shit, there are thousands of people with Jewish sounding names who do stupid shit every day...just look at Joe Wurzelbacher.

336 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:24:55pm

re: #333 freetoken

As a writer put it last week in Psychology Today:

The "traditional Chrisitian narrative" has been dominant in the US since the founding of the colonies. It doesn't want to die a natural death, though it has been supplanted by a more modern set of ideas.

Creationist culture warriors don't usually spend time on the nitty gritty details of the "creation" event itself.

Teaching it in Social Studies is EXACTLY how I debated the subject in high school. Hell, teach all the creation stories. I find them very interesting. Because that is waht they are, stories/myths that reveal so much about the people who believe them.

337 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:25:20pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

You made a very serious allegation. Either put up some evidence to back it up, or admit you made the argument without any evidence. Otherwise, feel free to Fuck Off.

Calm down, even the guys in your party have accused Romney of fraud. It's not some big secret.

Moreover, we know for a fact that Romney lies on an almost daily basis. He knows full well what Obama's stated foreign policy is towards Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. And yet he intentionally prevaricates regarding that policy in his stump speech. Romney: "Obama is fine with Iran getting nukes." "Obama has never stated he will use a military option with Iran." "Obama has thrown Israel under the bus by not promising their security." "Obama is prematurely pulling us out of Iraq" [as if no SOFA existed].

Sorry, but your favored candidate isn't as squeaky clean as you'd like to think.

338 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:25:34pm

re: #334 Gus

Exactly. Romney's problem isn't Bain Capital. It's that he's one big lump of insincerity.

Got some blingbling on ya!

who let the dogs out! woof woof!


(actual quotes from romney speaking to black people)

339 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:25:41pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

You made a very serious allegation. Either put up some evidence to back it up, or admit you made the argument without any evidence. Otherwise, feel free to Fuck Off.

Oh, did I hit a nerve? Well, I'm sure Mitt will reward you handsomely for defending his pathetic ass.

340 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:26:06pm

From the german, With Romney

341 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:26:11pm

re: #333 freetoken

As a writer put it last week in Psychology Today:

The "traditional Chrisitian narrative" has been dominant in the US since the founding of the colonies. It doesn't want to die a natural death, though it has been supplanted by a more modern set of ideas.

Creationist culture warriors don't usually spend time on the nitty gritty details of the "creation" event itself.

Is creationism a widespread belief in Judaism? And if it's not shouldn't Christians take a hint? I mean it's their ancient creation story after all. If they don't take it literally aren't they the best people to judge?

342 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:26:25pm

re: #335 darthstar

I think it's a bad enough tragedy...just because the guy's name is Zimmerman doesn't mean Judaism needs to be defended...shit, there are thousands of people with Jewish sounding names who do stupid shit every day...just look at Joe Wurzelbacher.

That's a German non-Jewish name right there.

343 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:26:43pm

re: #338 windupbird is in the gravity well

Got some blingbling on ya!

who let the dogs out! woof woof!

(actual quotes from romney speaking to black people)

Did he ask them to dance?

//

344 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:26:56pm

re: #337 palomino

Calm down, even the guys in your party have accused Romney of fraud. It's not some big secret.

Moreover, we know for a fact that Romney lies on an almost daily basis. He knows full well what Obama's stated foreign policy is towards Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. And yet he intentionally prevaricates regarding that policy in his stump speech. Romney: "Obama is fine with Iran getting nukes." "Obama has never stated he will use a military option with Iran." "Obama has thrown Israel under the bus by not promising their security." "Obama is prematurely pulling us out of Iraq" [as if no SOFA existed].

Sorry, but your favored candidate isn't as squeaky clean as you'd like to think.

Isn't Politician and Lying part and parcel of RHETORIC?

The aim is to influence not spout facts.

345 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:27:18pm

re: #341 moderatelyradicalliberal

Is creationism a widespread belief in Judaism? And if it's not shouldn't Christians take a hint? I mean it's their ancient creation story after all. If they don't take it literally aren't they the best people to judge?

No, it's an entirely different religion.

346 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:27:21pm

re: #343 Gus

Did he ask them to dance?

//

347 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:27:36pm

re: #331 ggt

No, I do not 'understand' that, not at all. Mitt Romney headed a firm that purchased and turned around firms in difficulties, and also provided funding for those seeking to expend their business. That is not theft by any standards I know.

348 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:27:55pm

re: #332 moderatelyradicalliberal

Romney's not a crook. He's just a shameless panderer, blatant liar, and has no political core or real principles that anyone (including most Republicans) can identify.

So you're saying that calling him a crook is defaming crooks?

349 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:27:59pm

re: #332 moderatelyradicalliberal

Romney's not a crook. He's just a shameless panderer, blatant liar, and has no political core or real principles that anyone (including most Republicans) can identify.

Ha! You can't prove that he committed fraud...thus he should be our next president. Cuz, you know, businessmen make the best presidents. From Hoover to W, all huge successes.

350 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:28:06pm

re: #335 darthstar

I think it's a bad enough tragedy...just because the guy's name is Zimmerman doesn't mean Judaism needs to be defended...shit, there are thousands of people with Jewish sounding names who do stupid shit every day...just look at Joe Wurzelbacher.

Yes, and that's what's so frustrating about this!

Everyone seems to have a horse in this race except for the kid who died and, unfortunately, the Jews, who were dragged into this for no reason at all. (Read the thread here [Link: www.topix.com...] )

America is full of idiots!

351 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:28:12pm

re: #300 ReamWorks

Hopefully your searching is finding some really really obscure blogs. do not broad brush based on internet findings.

Show me some influence from these blogs & I will break down and cry. But a random typical divisive smear. No.

352 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:28:12pm

re: #333 freetoken

As a writer put it last week in Psychology Today:

The "traditional Chrisitian narrative" has been dominant in the US since the founding of the colonies. It doesn't want to die a natural death, though it has been supplanted by a more modern set of ideas.

Creationist culture warriors don't usually spend time on the nitty gritty details of the "creation" event itself.

Perhaps that is the issue. People feel uncomfortable without the "story". Like how Mommy and Daddy met and got married and made me. So much more comforting than the "facts".

353 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:28:45pm

re: #339 darthstar

Oh, did I hit a nerve? Well, I'm sure Mitt will reward you handsomely for defending his pathetic ass.

Nope, but I'm still voting for him tomorrow.

354 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:28:56pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

No, I do not 'understand' that, not at all. Mitt Romney headed a firm that purchased and turned around firms in difficulties, and also provided funding for those seeking to expend their business. That is not theft by any standards I know.

Someone got screwed in the deal. Welcome to business, welcome to life.

355 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:29:12pm

re: #342 Tourquoise Supremacist

That's a German non-Jewish name right there.

See how confusing it is? Jesus Christ, is there a guidebook or something?

356 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:29:15pm

re: #351 Oh geeze.

He doesn't broad-brush though. He doesn't say everyone does it.

357 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:29:43pm

re: #317 moderatelyradicalliberal

Hannity is trying to make a big deal about her being on because Letterman was mean to Palin. He's going on about the Democrat War on Women. It's pathetic and Kristen Powers is helping him. They are even claiming that Democrats attacked Hillary and Republicans defended her. I'm done with her. Are there any real Democrats on FOX?

The Obama partisans did attack Hillary during the primaries, but I sure don't remember any Republicans defending her (until the week of Palin's selection, then it was more a generic pronouncement of "never criticize women candidates, any of them, ever, for any reason....")

The single most sexist thing I ever heard from a Dem political show host was about Nancy Pelosi, just before the 2006 midterms -- Christ Matthews was worried about the election because "speakers needs to be forceful and stubborn, and everybody hates when a woman does that."

When he started in on Hillary's stodgy clothes and does anybody want to watch a woman get old in office, then praising Michelle for being so pretty and classy and well-dressed, it was Andrea Mitchell who stopped him mid-rant to say "Hey!! These are Ivy League lawyers you're talking about. I don't think their hair or cleavage is the most important thing about them."

358 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:29:50pm

re: #345 Tourquoise Supremacist

No, it's an entirely different religion.

The creation story in Genesis isn't in the Torah? I didn't know that. I thought the first 5 books of the bible in the Old Testament were the Jewish Bible.

359 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:29:53pm

re: #355 darthstar

See how confusing it is? Jesus Christ, is there a guidebook or something?

Not very confusing in Joe's case, his surname is not Jewish-sounding.

360 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:30:18pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Nope, but I'm still voting for him tomorrow.

I will not vote for any member of the Republican Party this time around. They need to change their tune on Individiual Reproductive Rights before I will even consider voting Republican again.

For all their talk of the economy, they woud have us go broke and all live in poverty, but be rich in children to serve them.

361 dragonath  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:30:56pm

re: #304 freetoken

It's hard to believe at one time Nashville was at one time called the "Athens of the South". The city even has a full size replica of the Parthenon with a statue of Athena inside.

I wonder how long it's gonna be before the Christianists demand the destruction of the pagan idol?

/semi-sarc

362 freetoken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:31:30pm

re: #336 ggt

... Because that is waht they are, stories/myths that reveal so much about the people who believe them.

But therein lay an even stickier issue for the school teacher.

Imagine if a social studies teacher actually does tackle the issue, and explains that the modern discoveries about the ancient Jewish writings in Genesis are: that Genesis is an edited version of one ethnic group's identity-story (much like Americans tell stories of George Washington), codified during a period of captivity by said group, who re-wrote even older myths from the neighboring groups of people, and that the stories ended up being syncretized beliefs from the Bronze age religions and the Iron age national narratives.

So little Johnny then goes home to his fundamentalist parents and says his teacher told him the Bible was just a collection of made up stories, copied from other nations' stories.

What do you think those fundamentalist parents would do then?

363 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:31:44pm

re: #357 sagehen

The Obama partisans did attack Hillary during the primaries, but I sure don't remember any Republicans defending her (until the week of Palin's selection, then it was more a generic pronouncement of "never criticize women candidates, any of them, ever, for any reason...")

The single most sexist thing I ever heard from a Dem political show host was about Nancy Pelosi, just before the 2006 midterms -- Christ Matthews was worried about the election because "speakers needs to be forceful and stubborn, and everybody hates when a woman does that."

When he started in on Hillary's stodgy clothes and does anybody want to watch a woman get old in office, then praising Michelle for being so pretty and classy and well-dressed, it was Andrea Mitchell who stopped him mid-rant to say "Hey!! These are Ivy League lawyers you're talking about. I don't think their hair or cleavage is the most important thing about them."

It certainly seemed important to Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann --oh, wait you said Ivy League and Lawyers. Never mind.

364 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:31:47pm

re: #358 moderatelyradicalliberal

The creation story in Genesis isn't in the Torah?

Who said that?

I didn't know that. I thought the first 5 books of the bible in the Old Testament were the Jewish Bible.

Of course they are. No need to strawman. But Judaic interpretations do not apply to Christianity and vice versa.

365 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:32:36pm

re: #357 sagehen

The Obama partisans did attack Hillary during the primaries, but I sure don't remember any Republicans defending her (until the week of Palin's selection, then it was more a generic pronouncement of "never criticize women candidates, any of them, ever, for any reason...")

The single most sexist thing I ever heard from a Dem political show host was about Nancy Pelosi, just before the 2006 midterms -- Christ Matthews was worried about the election because "speakers needs to be forceful and stubborn, and everybody hates when a woman does that."

When he started in on Hillary's stodgy clothes and does anybody want to watch a woman get old in office, then praising Michelle for being so pretty and classy and well-dressed, it was Andrea Mitchell who stopped him mid-rant to say "Hey!! These are Ivy League lawyers you're talking about. I don't think their hair or cleavage is the most important thing about them."

Oh I do remember ugly thing being said about Hillary, I just don't remember conservatives coming to her defense. They didn't get in on crying sexism until people started noticing that Palin was dumb.

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:33:03pm

re: #335 darthstar

I think it's a bad enough tragedy...just because the guy's name is Zimmerman doesn't mean Judaism needs to be defended...shit, there are thousands of people with Jewish sounding names who do stupid shit every day...just look at Joe Wurzelbacher.

"Wurzelbacher" doesn't sound Jewish.

367 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:33:27pm

re: #362 freetoken

But therein lay an even stickier issue for the school teacher.

Imagine if a social studies teacher actually does tackle the issue, and explains that the modern discoveries about the ancient Jewish writings in Genesis are: that Genesis is an edited version of one ethnic group's identity-story (much like Americans tell stories of George Washington), codified during a period of captivity by said group, who re-wrote even older myths from the neighboring groups of people, and that the stories ended up being syncretized beliefs from the Bronze age religions and the Iron age national narratives.

So little Johnny then goes home to his fundamentalist parents and says his teacher told him the Bible was just a collection of made up stories, copied from other nations' stories.

What do you think those fundamentalist parents would do then?

Just have them read Ovid's Metamorphoses. They'll recognize a lot of stories in that one

368 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:33:30pm

re: #361 Beware the Green Dragon!

It's hard to believe at one time Nashville was at one time called the "Athens of the South". The city even has a full size replica of the Parthenon with a statue of Athena inside.

I wonder how long it's gonna be before the Christianists demand the destruction of the pagan idol?

/semi-sarc

A handfull of nuts might say that, but Nashville as a city would not allow such a thing.

369 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:33:35pm

re: #359 Tourquoise Supremacist

Not very confusing in Joe's case, his surname is not Jewish-sounding.

I know lots of Baptists without Baptist sounding names, and Catholics without Catholic sounding names...and I'm a fuckin' athiest, yet I have the same name as my devout Catholic family. I chose Wurzelbacher for the same reason someone might choose 'Smith'...it just sounds Mormon for some reason...could it be because of Joseph?

370 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:33:56pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

"Wurzelbacher" doesn't sound Jewish.

It sounds like a musical instrument.

371 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:34:14pm
But when Kansas City’s Worldwide Grinding Systems went belly-up less than a decade after Bain became its majority stakeholder, the company, which had been in operation since 1888, had to turn to a federal insurance agency to bailout its pension program in large part because Bain had “saddled” it with “such a heavy debt load”:

Less than a decade later, the mill was padlocked and some 750 people lost their jobs. Workers were denied the severance pay and health insurance they’d been promised, and their pension benefits were cut by as much as $400 (258 pounds) a month.

What’s more, a federal government insurance agency had to pony up $44 million to bail out the company’s underfunded pension plan. Nevertheless, Bain profited on the deal, receiving $12 million on its $8 million initial investment and at least $4.5 million in consulting fees.

While Romney’s firm benefited from a federal bailout, he has been a vocal critic of such bailouts while on the campaign trail. At different times, Romney both supported and derided the federal bank bailouts, but he most recently referred to the Troubled Asset Relief Program as a “slush fund” that “should be shut down.” When Obama proposed bailing out the auto industry in 2009, a rescue that was ultimately successful, Romney famously criticized the plan in a New York Times editorial titled, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.”

And while Bain drove Worldwide Grinding Systems into bankruptcy, it didn’t share in the misery. According to Reuters, Bain made at least $12 million from the invesment, and added another $9,000 a year from the company via management consulting fees. Meanwhile, by 1995, the company was carrying debt that amounted to 10 times more than its annual operating income. Six years later, it was bankrupt.

This is what Bain did under Romney, used the pension plans as collateral for loans, saddled the acquisition with debt knowing that if the company failed the government would be forced to cover the pension obligations.

It may not have been theft per se, inasmuch as it was apparently legal, but it was certainly parasitic and unethical behavior.

372 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:34:39pm

re: #369 darthstar

It doesn't sound Mormon to me. Moreover, I think with Mormons it's mostly the first names, if you know what I mean.

373 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:35:00pm

re: #369 darthstar

I know lots of Baptists without Baptist sounding names, and Catholics without Catholic sounding names...and I'm a fuckin' athiest, yet I have the same name as my devout Catholic family. I chose Wurzelbacher for the same reason someone might choose 'Smith'...it just sounds Mormon for some reason...could it be because of Joseph?

Santa Cruz effect.

//

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:35:03pm

re: #370 ggt

It sounds like a musical instrument.

Made out of a root vegetable.

375 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:35:06pm

re: #348 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

So you're saying that calling him a crook is defaming crooks?

Yeah, he's worse than a crook. Mitt Romney has the personality characteristics of a criminal mastermind. And anybody who lies like this man, lied his ass off in the business world.

376 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:35:21pm

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

Made out of a root vegetable.

Heh, yes.

377 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:36:00pm

re: #376 Tourquoise Supremacist

Heh, yes.

I am frolicking in a hoven of beets right now!

//

378 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:37:13pm

Joe Carrot-Top.

379 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:38:34pm

Fair Play. Westerners despised duplicity or under-handedness of any kind. The Code dictated that one could not shoot an unarmed or unwarned enemy (also known as "the rattlesnake code": always warn before you strike). All bets were off, however, if someone was being stalked.

[Link: www.zgws.org...]

380 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:39:38pm

re: #364 Tourquoise Supremacist

Who said that?

Of course they are. No need to strawman. But Judaic interpretations do not apply to Christianity and vice versa.

I don't see the problem I asked a simple question. Is it as common in Judaism to take the creation story literally? And if not, why not? I know they are separate religions, but this is a story that is shared. I don't quite get why so many Christians insist on taking the story literally in the face of scientific facts to the contrary. I am simple inquiring as to whether or not another religion that shares the story has the same phenomena or is this uniquely Christian?

381 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:40:32pm

re: #372 Tourquoise Supremacist

It doesn't sound Mormon to me. Moreover, I think with Mormons it's mostly the first names, if you know what I mean.

Yeah...like Joseph.

382 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:40:43pm

re: #380 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't see the problem I asked a simple question. Is it as common in Judaism to take the creation story literally? And if not, why not? I know they are separate religions, but this is a story that is shared. I don't quite get why so many Christians insist on taking the story literally in the face of scientific facts to the contrary. I am simple inquiring as to whether or not another religion that shares the story has the same phenomena or is this uniquely Christian?

Because, emotionally, they can't handle facts.

383 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:40:43pm

re: #338 windupbird is in the gravity well

Got some blingbling on ya!

who let the dogs out! woof woof!

(actual quotes from romney speaking to black people)

Oops, there goes the 3% of the blah vote he was counting on.

Speaking of blah, is there anyone out there who thinks Santorum was NOT referring to African Americans in this video?

And here he is with even more condescension to blacks.

384 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:41:04pm

re: #370 ggt

It sounds like a musical instrument.

I think it sounds like a sausage or hot dog of some kind. BTW lots of black people in the South East with the last name Cohen.

385 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:42:07pm

re: #358 moderatelyradicalliberal

The creation story in Genesis isn't in the Torah? I didn't know that. I thought the first 5 books of the bible in the Old Testament were the Jewish Bible.

The Hebrew Bible consists of the 5 books of Moses, the Prophets (Joshua, Judges, etc), the Psalms, the Megillot (Esther, etc). See wikipedia for "Tanakh". Jews don't call it the "Old Testament", though it's what Christians call the "Old Testament"

Yes, the (two) creation stories in Genesis are the same as the ones Christians learn.

However, "Creationism" among traditionally religious Jews isn't like Christian Creationism. Most Jews, even traditional ones, concede that time in early creation may have not been the same as time today. "A thousand years is like a day in Your sight" (Psalm 90:4) And again, most Jews, don't think think that Carbon or Uranium dating, for example, is some sort of trick G-d is playing with us. Even the most traditional Jew will concede that it's probably correct based on the time scale we use today. Jews don't tend to think their whole Torah will collapse because we found a dinosaur fossil.

Since there's no central authority in Judaism, other than the Torah itself, there are naturally a range of opinions about this.

There's a decent summary here:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

386 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:42:22pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

No, I do not 'understand' that, not at all. Mitt Romney headed a firm that purchased and turned around firms in difficulties, and also provided funding for those seeking to expend their business. That is not theft by any standards I know.

The only thing less appealing that the "running the government like a business" meme is pairing that meme with references to a venture capital firm that made tons of money from leveraged buyouts.

387 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:42:30pm

Michelle Obama tonight on Letterman was awesome..
She has so much class and does something 99% politicians can't do on all the hundreds of Shows I watch..
She makes me proud to be an American

388 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:42:42pm

re: #383 palomino

[Embedded content]

Nope, everybody knows who he was talking about. Unless by "blah" he meant people with Mitt Romney's personality.

389 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:42:53pm

re: #380 moderatelyradicalliberal

And I partially answered the question (Christians have their interpretations, religious Jews have their interpretations).

As for the rest, [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

390 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:43:13pm
391 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:43:20pm

re: #381 darthstar

Yeah...like Joseph.

Brigham, Hyrum, Orson...

392 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:43:30pm

re: #381 darthstar

Yeah...like Joseph.

Joseph is not a uniquely Mormon name.

393 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:43:56pm

re: #385 ReamWorks

The Hebrew Bible consists of the 5 books of Moses, the Prophets (Joshua, Judges, etc), the Psalms, the Megillot (Esther, etc). See wikipedia for "Tanakh". Jews don't call it the "Old Testament", though it's what Christians call the "Old Testament"

Yes, the (two) creation stories in Genesis are the same as the ones Christians learn.

However, "Creationism" among traditionally religious Jews isn't like Christian Creationism. Most Jews, even traditional ones, concede that time in early creation may have not been the same as time today. "A thousand years is like a day in Your sight" (Psalm 90:4) And again, most Jews, don't think think that Carbon or Uranium dating, for example, is some sort of trick G-d is playing with us. Even the most traditional Jew will concede that it's probably correct based on the time scale we use today. Jews don't tend to think their whole Torah will collapse because we found a dinosaur fossil.

Since there's no central authority in Judaism, other than the Torah itself, there are naturally a range of opinions about this.

Thanks.

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:44:05pm

Yusef

Joseph

It's one of those Universal Names -has a version in every language --no?

395 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:45:14pm

re: #390 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Humans!

WTF?

396 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:45:28pm

re: #394 ggt

Yusef

Joseph

It's one of those Universal Names -has a version in every language --no?

Yep, but nothing beats Ivan. I mean Yohanan. That is, John. Or Jack. Whatever. ;)

397 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:45:42pm

re: #392 Tourquoise Supremacist

Joseph is not a uniquely Mormon name.

That's what they want you to think. Stalin's patronymic was actually Brighamovich....

398 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:46:09pm

re: #396 Tourquoise Supremacist

Yep, but nothing beats Ivan. I mean Yohanan. That is, John. Or Jack. Whatever. ;)

Juan

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:46:39pm

re: #380 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't see the problem I asked a simple question. Is it as common in Judaism to take the creation story literally? And if not, why not? I know they are separate religions, but this is a story that is shared. I don't quite get why so many Christians insist on taking the story literally in the face of scientific facts to the contrary. I am simple inquiring as to whether or not another religion that shares the story has the same phenomena or is this uniquely Christian?

Yes and no. I'd say that most Jews have not been literalists in the modern Christian sense--then again, neither has been, or is the Catholic Church--but there are Jews who are literalist believers.

400 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:47:06pm

re: #390 jaunte

There's the Al Sharpton meme again too. New rules. Next time someone bring up Al Sharpton in this context I'm going to sting them like a bee.

401 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:47:37pm

re: #397 The Ghost of a Flea

That's what they want you to think. Stalin's patronymic was actually Brighamovich...

Yes, there are rumors he was one of those mountain Mormons. //

402 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:47:57pm

re: #344 ggt

Isn't Politician and Lying part and parcel of RHETORIC?

The aim is to influence not spout facts.

Sure, politics is a cynical game much of the time.

But Obama has stated clearly for the last 3 years that a nuclear Iran is intolerable and that the US has Israel's back. He's also made it clear that he'll follow the SOFA agreement made before he took office. There's no gray area in what Obama has said on these matters.

And yet Romney continues to spread obvious lies about crucial national security matters. Why? Because a lot of people live in bubbles and will believe him; moreover, it's what many Republicans want to hear, and most cynically, it feeds into the narrative, that as the dreaded Other, Obama isn't fully American ("doesn't understand America"--Romney's words) and sympathizes with our enemies, particularly Arab Muslims. It goes beyond hardball politics to race-baiting and xenophobia. Oh, yeah, and the blatant lying.

403 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:47:57pm

re: #400 Gus

There's the Al Sharpton meme again too. New rules. Next time someone bring up Al Sharpton in this context I'm going to sting them like a bee.

Should we have an Al Sharpton rule?

No Alsharptoning or you'll get beed.

404 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:48:03pm

re: #398 ggt

Juan

Jean, Sean...

405 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:48:09pm

re: #401 Tourquoise Supremacist

Yes, there are rumors he was one of those mountain Mormons. //

Which mountains? Ural?

406 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:48:37pm

re: #398 ggt

Juan

Jan, Yan in South and Central Asia.

Check out the Wikipedia list. There's a surprising number of variants I'd never heard before.

407 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:48:44pm

One of the most imporant distinctions between Jews and Christians wrt creationism is expressed in the last sentence of that Wikipedia article:

Jewish organizations in the United States have been steadfast in their opposition to the teaching of intelligent design in public schools, charging that to do so would violate the separation of church and state.

And (from [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] )

Many leaders of Modern Orthodox Judaism expressed similar views about intelligent design. For example, Rabbi Dr. Tzvi Hersh Weinreb, the executive Vice President of the Orthodox Union told the daily Haaretz, "Intelligent Design calls to our attention the amazing complexity of the universe. That is descriptive science and should be part of all courses in biology and chemistry. However, the conclusion that such complexity is proof positive of a Creator, as Judaism or other religions understand such a creator, is faith, not science, and as such has no place in the curricula of the public schools in the United States, where separation of Church from State is a fundamental national premise." Weinreb continued, "In a religious school, particularly in a Jewish school, I would advocate that evolution as understood by the scientific establishment be taught in courses of science, and that Intelligent Design be taught in courses of Jewish thought."[14]

408 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:49:32pm

re: #403 ggt

Should we have an Al Sharpton rule?

No Alsharptoning or you'll get beed.

Pow! Yep. And you know I've got a mean streak. ;)

409 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:49:42pm

re: #401 Tourquoise Supremacist

Yes, there are rumors he was one of those mountain Mormons. //

Didn't John Denver sing about them?

410 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:49:59pm

re: #403 ggt

Should we have an Al Sharpton rule?

No Alsharptoning or you'll get beed.

Really, it should be:

No Alsharptoning or Gus will bee ya'.

411 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:50:09pm

re: #391 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Brigham, Hyrum, Orson...

Honestly, I didn't think the rent-a-cop, Zimmerman, was Jewish...I just figured he was a white-trash asshole with maybe a high school education, at best. My biggest concern was that he'd somehow be related to Allen Zimmerman because that would just fuck with my world too much (and I'm guessing nobody wants to deny that Allen-aka 'Bob'-shares some kind of ancestry)...It wasn't until Reuven the Reamer claimed otherwise that I thought the denial was somewhat defensive.

Okay, time for bed. It's not my fight, so I shouldn't play any part in it. I just hope someone in Florida has the balls to prosecute that fucker, no matter how ignorant or uneducated he is.

412 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:50:12pm

re: #405 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Which mountains? Ural?

Heh.
I was mocking the antisemitic claims that he was of mountain-Jewish ancestry and his name means "Son of Jew".

But actually there is a Russian Christian sect that call themselves "mormons" [pdf].

413 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:50:30pm

re: #405 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Which mountains? Ural?

The Blue Ridge Mountains in Georgia, of course.

414 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:50:40pm

re: #409 jaunte

Didn't John Denver sing about them?

No, that was . .

geez, I am old.

He died in a skiing accident . . . .

COLORADO.

415 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:50:43pm

re: #398 ggt

Juan

Sean (that's me!)`

416 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:51:06pm

re: #415 darthstar

Sean (that's me!)`

Sean John?

417 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:52:01pm

re: #416 ggt

Sean John?

It's the Gaelic John.

418 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:52:31pm

re: #417 darthstar

It's the Gaelic John.

I added a link to my previous post.

419 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:52:56pm

re: #418 ggt

I added a link to my previous post.

BTW, Sean John has some awesome fragrances.

420 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:53:03pm

re: #416 ggt

Sean John?

And yes, that's what my mother called me...Sean John...she was a fan of the Kennedy kid and that was about the time I was born...I got the "John John" hair cut into my late childhood.

421 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:53:38pm

re: #420 darthstar

And yes, that's what my mother called me...Sean John...she was a fan of the Kennedy kid and that was about the time I was born...I got the "John John" hair cut into my late childhood.

lucky you!

/

422 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:53:40pm

re: #386 The Ghost of a Flea

The only thing less appealing that the "running the government like a business" meme is pairing that meme with references to a venture capital firm that made tons of money from leveraged buyouts.

If we ran the USA like a business, we'd have sponsorship stickers on the flag, and the White House would be renamed like a sports stadium

423 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:53:41pm

re: #417 darthstar

It's the Gaelic John.

And the Welsh is Ianto.

There's like a committee in Wales that does nothing but add vowels to words, I think.

424 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:53:55pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Nope, but I'm still voting for him tomorrow.

Wow, the enthusiasm for Romney is just infectious!

He only had to outspend his rivals 10-to-1 to win Ohio by 1%. Winning!

425 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:54:28pm

re: #419 ggt

BTW, Sean John has some awesome fragrances.

His signature men's fragrance is really, really nice.

426 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:55:04pm

re: #416 ggt

Sean John?

Except I'm hung like a lightswitch.

427 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:55:37pm

re: #423 The Ghost of a Flea

And the Welsh is Ianto.

There's like a committee in Wales that does nothing but add vowels to words, I think.

My father's family hails from Wales, like a long time ago. Even longer than that he said "they came over with the Normans".

Dad really looked Nordic, IMHO.

I don't.

428 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:55:59pm

re: #426 darthstar

Except I'm hung like a lightswitch.

TMI!!!!!

429 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:56:13pm

re: #426 darthstar

Except I'm hung like a lightswitch.

And you taste like a broodwich?

430 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:56:30pm

re: #341 moderatelyradicalliberal

Is creationism a widespread belief in Judaism? And if it's not shouldn't Christians take a hint? I mean it's their ancient creation story after all. If they don't take it literally aren't they the best people to judge?

Not at all... Jews are a sciencey people.

Plus we have pretty good reading comprehension. We've noticed that the Book of Genesis has two creation narratives, wherein things don't happen in the same order, things aren't done by the methods, we take that as a big fat blinking neon sign that the reader isn't intended to take either narrative as a literal factual recounting.

431 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:56:42pm

re: #429 Tourquoise Supremacist

And you taste like a broodwich?

There you go, making assumptions based on race.

/;0

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:56:56pm

re: #411 darthstar

..It wasn't until Reuven the Reamer claimed otherwise that I thought the denial was somewhat defensive.

It's just that if you type in "George Zimmerman Jewish", you'll see that there's some fair nastiness already floating around out there. And it's pretty fucking frightening, seeing the way anti-Semitism spurts up to the surface every time some dude with a might-be-Jewish name shows up in a bad news story.

433 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:57:24pm

re: #364 Tourquoise Supremacist

Who said that?

Of course they are. No need to strawman. But Judaic interpretations do not apply to Christianity and vice versa.

Note to self: if I ever become God, remember to be clear, concise, and leave no room for interpretation...

434 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:57:41pm

re: #431 ggt

There you go, making assumptions based on race.

/;0

Meh, the meat under skin is always red. ///

435 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:57:47pm

re: #430 sagehen

Not at all... Jews are a sciencey people.

Plus we have pretty good reading comprehension. We've noticed that the Book of Genesis has two creation narratives, wherein things don't happen in the same order, things aren't done by the methods, we take that as a big fat blinking neon sign that the reader isn't intended to take either narrative as a literal factual recounting.

sometimes I wish I had been born into a Jewish family. Brains, brains, and artistic talent --and you don't have to put up that damned tree every year!

436 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:59:05pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

No, I do not 'understand' that, not at all. Mitt Romney headed a firm that purchased and turned around firms in difficulties, and also provided funding for those seeking to expend their business. That is not theft by any standards I know.

Some of those firms were leveraged buyouts -- they loaded the company with debt (using pension funds as collateral), paid themselves huge management fees, then offloaded the stock leaving hollow shells. When the companies collapsed, the Federal Pension Guarantee Board (i.e., taxpayers) had to pick up the tab for employees' retirement.

I call that theft.

437 palomino  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:59:28pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Nope, but I'm still voting for him tomorrow.

Since the GOP is now more of a church than a political party, wouldn't it make more sense to say that you'll be genuflecting--rather than voting--tomorrow?

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:59:36pm

re: #435 ggt

sometimes I wish I had been born into a Jewish family. Brains, brains, and artistic talent --and you don't have to put up that damned tree every year!

Remember, we're also neurotic. And if you're Ashkenazi, you'll probably have to eat gefilte fish throughout your childhood.

439 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:59:46pm

re: #435 ggt

sometimes I wish I had been born into a Jewish family. Brains, brains, and artistic talent --and you don't have to put up that damned tree every year!

We atheists get that plus no guilt. Come on over...

440 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:59:48pm

Brat Puppy is all tuckered out from his Agility Class tonite.

He went into his crate and is passed-out.

He only goes in there when he is really tired and doesn't want the other dogs to bother him.

441 darthstar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 9:59:59pm

re: #432 SanFranciscoZionist

It's just that if you type in "George Zimmerman Jewish", you'll see that there's some fair nastiness already floating around out there. And it's pretty fucking frightening, seeing the way anti-Semitism spurts up to the surface every time some dude with a might-be-Jewish name shows up in a bad news story.

That's why I never google shit like that...too many assholes out there. Sometimes it's just noise and you have to filter it out. You can't try to catch ever incident of 'real' anti-semitism on the internets...you'll drive yourself crazy and further the argument that most psychologists are Jewish for good reason. (that last part is snark, of course)

442 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:00:45pm
443 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:00:59pm

re: #439 Meh.

We atheists get that plus no guilt. Come on over...

Well, it's not that easy. To have the cool family and all, I'd have to convince everyone.

It's the family and heritage I'd like. Day-to-day practice? I quit piano when I was little because I couldn't hack it.

444 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:01:35pm

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

Remember, we're also neurotic. And if you're Ashkenazi, you'll probably have to eat gefilte fish throughout your childhood.

Every family has something . . . .

445 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:01:41pm

re: #441 darthstar

That's why I never google shit like that...too many assholes out there. Sometimes it's just noise and you have to filter it out. You can't try to catch ever incident of 'real' anti-semitism on the internets...you'll drive yourself crazy and further the argument that most psychologists are Jewish for good reason. (that last part is snark, of course)

Sometimes it comes off the Internets.

It did in France today.

This thing with Zimmerman? Not the end of the world. But not pleasant.

446 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:02:19pm

If Al Qaeda blows up bombs at Assad's military/intelligence infrastructure is it terrorism?

447 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:02:21pm

re: #445 SanFranciscoZionist

Sometimes it comes off the Internets.

It did in France today.

This thing with Zimmerman? Not the end of the world. But not pleasant.

Horrible tragedy in France.

Really horrible 

448 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:02:31pm

re: #430 sagehen

Not at all... Jews are a sciencey people.

Plus we have pretty good reading comprehension. We've noticed that the Book of Genesis has two creation narratives, wherein things don't happen in the same order, things aren't done by the methods, we take that as a big fat blinking neon sign that the reader isn't intended to take either narrative as a literal factual recounting.

Christians seem to be quite good at ignoring inconsistency. Truth be told when I go to church it's for the music. When the music stops I'm ready to go.

449 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:03:19pm

There was a time once when "Al Qaeda" would combat the Soviets. Back then it wasn't considered terrorism.

450 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:03:25pm

re: #448 moderatelyradicalliberal

Christians seem to be quite good at ignoring inconsistency. Truth be told when I go to church it's for the music. When the music stops I'm ready to go.

I don't go at all.

Music sucks --guitar mass wannabe Christian Rockers. Sad, sad, sad.

451 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:04:03pm

Good night, all.

452 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:04:09pm

re: #450 ggt

I don't go at all.

Music sucks --guitar mass wannabe Christian Rockers. Sad, sad, sad.

Oh I meant the gospel music in black churches. That Christian Rock is so lame.

453 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:04:12pm

re: #449 Gus

There was a time once when "Al Qaeda" would combat the Soviets. Back then it wasn't considered terrorism.

Of course not, they were on our side in the cold war.

many rotations of the earth since . . .

454 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:04:35pm

re: #452 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh I meant the gospel music in black churches. That Christian Rock is so lame.

It's beyond lame.

way beyond

especially, considering most catholics party their ass off or did when they were younger.

455 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:05:03pm

zimmerman

the inntertubes give the meaning of this name as "carpenter", from an archaic german "zimber", timber

a trade name like this would be extremely widespread i expect

456 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:05:47pm

When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy,
Don't ever play with guns,"
But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die...

457 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:06:32pm

An older person I know was all excited because her grandkids had taken her to a rock concert the weekend before. I thought, woah, kewl grandma.

Then I found out it was the Gaithers.

I felt so sorry for her, she thought she had been to a rock concert.

458 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:06:51pm

re: #433 Meh.

Note to self: if I ever become God, remember to be clear, concise, and leave no room for interpretation...

Very, very important: make sure that displays of divine wrath are wholly distinguishable from naturally-occurring phenomena.

Less "the volcano is rumbling, maybe god is angry" and more "the volcano is no longer rumbling, and is instead playing circus music."

459 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:07:51pm

re: #452 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh I meant the gospel music in black churches. That Christian Rock is so lame.

Christian rock is terrible. Awful. It's the Pat Boone of music genres.

Give me a full gospel choir any day. Way more interesting.

460 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:09:02pm

re: #459 Lidane

Christian rock is terrible. Awful. It's the Pat Boone of music genres.

Give me a full gospel choir any day. Way more interesting.

Or even Orchestral music.

anything but Christian Rock.

BTW, you can always tell who the nerds are, because they are bopping around in their pews to the music.

Church can be sooo high school.

:0

461 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:09:14pm

One should be willing to die in order to maintain honor.

462 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:10:14pm

re: #461 Gus

One should be willing to die in order to maintain honor.

Saving face is so important --so much so that you should cover your women from head-to-toe and kill your daughter if she is raped.

/gah

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:10:30pm

re: #458 The Ghost of a Flea

Very, very important: make sure that displays of divine wrath are wholly distinguishable from naturally-occurring phenomena.

Less "the volcano is rumbling, maybe god is angry" and more "the volcano is no longer rumbling, and is instead playing circus music."

Does the volcano playing circus music mean God is happy or not happy?

464 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:10:55pm

re: #446 Gus

If Al Qaeda blows up bombs at Assad's military/intelligence infrastructure is it terrorism?

Technically...yes. That it services ends we like (because of our own perceptions and convictions) doesn't change that they're doing it to further their ends by destabilizing competing power structures and compelling compliance to their agenda through violence.

465 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:11:16pm

re: #462 ggt

Saving face is so important --so much so that you should cover your women from head-to-toe and kill your daughter if she is raped.

/gah

No. It means that you should be willing to expect the better of people when you meet them on the street. Before you shoot them because one is paranoid.

466 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:12:07pm

re: #460 ggt

Or even Orchestral music.

anything but Christian Rock.

BTW, you can always tell who the nerds are, because they are bopping around in their pews to the music.

Church can be sooo high school.

:0

Ha. First we had the MoTabs, now we have the choir that Gladys Knight put together.

467 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:12:16pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

Does the volcano playing circus music mean God is happy or not happy?

depends --he could be feeling mischievous. Could be a prelude to a Twilight Zone kind of God Action.

468 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:12:19pm

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

Remember, we're also neurotic. And if you're Ashkenazi, you'll probably have to eat gefilte fish throughout your childhood.

And Manischevitz. That foul liquid has caused entire congregations to turn atheist.

469 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:13:31pm

re: #465 Gus

No. It means that you should be willing to expect the better of people when you meet them on the street. Before you shoot them because one is paranoid.

ah, I call that just plain common sense.

Like, if you have the opportunity to back off and let the cops handle it --do so.

There is no shame in delegating such responsibility. That is why we have cops.

470 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:13:38pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

Does the volcano playing circus music mean God is happy or not happy?

Well, since the best-known circus tune is actually a classical piece entitled "Entrance of the Gladiators" I'd suggest that it means Blood for the Blood God.

471 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:13:47pm

re: #468 sagehen

And Manischevitz. That foul liquid has caused entire congregations to turn atheist.

or sober?

473 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:14:48pm

re: #468 sagehen

And Manischevitz. That foul liquid has caused entire congregations to turn atheist.

It's that bad? Then why drink it??

474 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:15:28pm

re: #458 The Ghost of a Flea

Very, very important: make sure that displays of divine wrath are wholly distinguishable from naturally-occurring phenomena.

Less "the volcano is rumbling, maybe god is angry" and more "the volcano is no longer rumbling, and is instead playing circus music."

Some people are stubborn. Some time in the fourteenth century, Buonaccorso Pitti was struck by lightning as he walked across Florence. No one else was struck. He was unharmed, except his hose burned off him.

It was the day before his wedding.

I MIGHT have taken the hint, and at least double-checked to make sure I wasn't related to the bride in a forbidden degree or something.

Not our Buonaccorso. Put on a new pair of pants, wrote about it in his diary, and went on with his life.

475 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:15:29pm

re: #473 Meh.

It's that bad? Then why drink it??

Why does anyone drink Southern Comfort?

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:16:05pm

re: #468 sagehen

And Manischevitz. That foul liquid has caused entire congregations to turn atheist.

We are the only people who drink sweet wine out of Dixie cups.

477 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:16:09pm
478 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:16:19pm

re: #468 sagehen

And Manischevitz. That foul liquid has caused entire congregations to turn atheist.

Is it bad because it's sweet?

479 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:16:37pm

Dunno, I like sweet wine.

480 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:16:41pm

re: #473 Meh.

It's that bad? Then why drink it??

It's God's will.

Also, it's cheap as hell, and has a nostalgic quality to it.

481 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:16:55pm

re: #456 Lidane

[Embedded content]When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy,
Don't ever play with guns,"
But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die...

an even better version

482 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:17:02pm

re: #474 SanFranciscoZionist

Some people are stubborn. Some time in the fourteenth century, Buonaccorso Pitti was struck by lightning as he walked across Florence. No one else was struck. He was unharmed, except his hose burned off him.

It was the day before his wedding.

I MIGHT have taken the hint, and at least double-checked to make sure I wasn't related to the bride in a forbidden degree or something.

Not our Buonaccorso. Put on a new pair of pants, wrote about it in his diary, and went on with his life.

Yeah, I'd probably consider that a life-changing event.

FREAK me out anyway.

483 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:18:29pm

Heard it.

484 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:18:58pm

Damn.

485 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:19:02pm

re: #478 Tourquoise Supremacist

Is it bad because it's sweet?

Well, that is part of the reason it's bad. It's sweet, syrupy, high-alcohol stuff. Much like a very cheap Port, but sweeter than most.

486 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:20:03pm

re: #485 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that is part of the reason it's bad. It's sweet, syrupy, high-alcohol stuff. Much like a very cheap Port, but sweeter than most.

Ah, must be good stuff. ;)

487 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:20:13pm
488 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:20:21pm

re: #477 Gus

holy fuck

489 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:20:31pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

We are the only people who drink sweet wine out of Dixie cups.

Oh, I think a fair number of Southerners do that too. A lot of it is made out of muscadines (odd grape-like things that grow in the South) and blackberries. It's awful stuff.

490 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:20:44pm

re: #477 Gus

HOLY SHIT!!

491 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:20:58pm

re: #487 Gus

oh ... kay

492 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:22:01pm

re: #491 Tourquoise Supremacist

oh ... kay

That's what he says. We can't keep hiding what people do or say.

493 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:22:44pm

re: #487 Gus

Trayvon Martin 911 Call [SHOCKING FULL] Murder Caught on Tape | Killed By George Zimmerman #1

[Embedded content]Right around 2:22 you can hear him mutter "fucking coons."

Good kid. Never had any legal problems. A's and B's in school. Ends up shot dead by a racist maniac and as a John Doe for THREE DAYS.

WTF. Why is Zimmerman free again?

494 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:22:59pm

re: #487 Gus

Trayvon Martin 911 Call [SHOCKING FULL] Murder Caught on Tape | Killed By George Zimmerman #1

[Embedded content]Right around 2:22 you can hear him mutter "fucking coons."

Yeah, DOJ is going to be all over this.

Local Law Enforcement is going to be doing lots of back-peddling and "saving face."

Sheriff is shitting bricks about now.

495 sagehen  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:23:32pm

re: #471 ggt

or sober?

Not allowed.

Every observant Jew over the age of 13 is required to drink a glass of wine every Sabbath, plus at each of a dozen holidays, also at weddings, bar mitzvahs, births, deaths, 4 glasses at Passover...

496 SpaceJesus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:24:16pm

re: #477 Gus

fuck all of that

497 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:24:25pm

re: #495 sagehen

Not allowed.

Every observant Jew over the age of 13 is required to drink a glass of wine every Sabbath, plus at each of a dozen holidays, also at weddings, bar mitzvahs, births, deaths, 4 glasses at Passover...

[Embedded content]

Then I can't be Jewish. I am sober.

This makes me very sad.

498 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:25:35pm

re: #496 SpaceJesus

fuck all of that

You think that's bad now imagine being Trayvon.

499 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:26:21pm

re: #498 Gus

You think that's bad now imagine being Trayvon.

Or his mother.

OMG, they'd have to lock me up.

500 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:28:29pm

OK. Maybe he said punks. Anyway. He gave pursuit. At this point Trayvan is running away from this guy.

501 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:28:40pm

re: #497 ggt

Then I can't be Jewish. I am sober.

This makes me very sad.

AFAIK, there's no reason that unfermented grape juice can't be substituted by those who should not drink, or prefer not to.

502 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:29:08pm

I really don't understand why a Neighborhood Watch person had a firearm with him in the first place if his job is to WATCH.

Ok, well, I guess I do understand. Lot's of guys have guns on them all the time --legally or not.

But why use it if the cops told you to back off --not a rational act.

Sorry, this guy is FUBAR by his own actions. I hope the kids family get's everything he is worth in a civil suit.

503 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:29:11pm

In any event. This country has an ample supply of soliders it seems.

504 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:29:18pm

re: #500 Gus

OK. Maybe he said punks. Anyway. He gave pursuit. At this point Trayvan is running away from this guy.

Hell, I would have been.

505 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:29:31pm

They wanted a race dialog. Well, they have it now.

506 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:29:35pm

re: #500 Gus

OK. Maybe he said punks. Anyway. He gave pursuit. At this point Trayvan is running away from this guy.

was he shot in the back?

507 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:30:13pm

re: #506 ggt

was he shot in the back?

Haven't heard either way.

508 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:30:25pm

re: #505 Oh geeze.

They wanted a race dialog. Well, they have it now.

It's gonna be white/hispanic vs. black male youth.

lovely.

Instead it should be FUCKING IDIOT vs youth

509 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:31:11pm

re: #502 ggt

I really don't understand why a Neighborhood Watch person had a firearm with him in the first place if his job is to WATCH.

Ok, well, I guess I do understand. Lot's of guys have guns on them all the time --legally or not.

But why use it if the cops told you to back off --not a rational act.

Sorry, this guy is FUBAR by his own actions. I hope the kids family get's everything he is worth in a civil suit.

Yah. They should, because they lost their son.

OMG, this is the ultimate disgrace.

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:31:16pm

re: #506 ggt

was he shot in the back?

I don't know. I think all of this is about to come out in a big rush.

511 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:31:31pm

re: #507 Gus

Haven't heard either way.

If he was running away, he would have been shot in the back. It's a big deal if he was shot in the back.

Well, it's a big deal anyway, but Law Enforcement would have a much harder time explaining letting Zimmerman go if the young man was shot in the back.

512 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:32:41pm

Florida. Where they give any idiot a CCW permit.

513 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:34:28pm

re: #511 ggt

If he was running away, he would have been shot in the back. It's a big deal if he was shot in the back.

Well, it's a big deal anyway, but Law Enforcement would have a much harder time explaining letting Zimmerman go if the young man was shot in the back.

I think they may have had a struggle. Does that make the attacked less attacked? Yes, in Florida it probably does.

514 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:35:19pm

re: #510 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. I think all of this is about to come out in a big rush.

Yeah, and we will know all about it.

I can't tell you how many times the news is everywhere and and I know every angle because it's been hashed out here and Lizards have done the fact-checking.

His poor parents --God, the spotlight is going to be bright on them.

515 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:35:29pm

re: #510 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. I think all of this is about to come out in a big rush.

It seems there were witnesses? Including a thirteen-year-old boy about twenty yards away.

Teachers report that his schoolwork hasn't been as good as usual, and his mom says he's arguing with his siblings.

YOU THINK?

Kid needs therapy, people, ASAP.

516 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:36:56pm

re: #513 Oh geeze.

I think they may have had a struggle. Does that make the attacked less attacked? Yes, in Florida it probably does.

Law Enforcement told Zimmerman to back-off after he made the 911 call. He had no business being close enough to the young man to be allegedly attacked. There is precedence for this. As I understand it, once you call 911, you do what they say or be prosecuted if you discharge a firearm.

517 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:37:58pm

Oh the threat of Santorum does not even register in my brain compared to this killing in Orlando.

Hey! Ask the candidates their thoughts on Trayvon. Go for it Mitt!

518 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:38:34pm

re: #517 Oh geeze.

Oh the threat of Santorum does not even register in my brain compared to this killing in Orlando.

Hey! Ask the candidates their thoughts on Trayvon. Go for it Mitt!

Why bring politics into this tragedy.

Isn't it bad enough as it is?

519 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:39:06pm

re: #361 Beware the Green Dragon!

It's hard to believe at one time Nashville was at one time called the "Athens of the South". The city even has a full size replica of the Parthenon with a statue of Athena inside.

I wonder how long it's gonna be before the Christianists demand the destruction of the pagan idol?

/semi-sarc

There's a reason we're called the Athens of the South; Nashville has a metric shit-ton of colleges and universities in the city and there are more within a couple of hours drive.

We also happen to be the Buckle of the Bible Belt, with many denominations being headquartered or with major operations here (United Methodist Church, Southern Baptist Convention, and others).

520 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:40:01pm

re: #493 Lidane

Good kid. Never had any legal problems. A's and B's in school. Ends up shot dead by a racist maniac and as a John Doe for THREE DAYS.

WTF. Why is Zimmerman free again?

Anyone know if the police department has or has not acknolwleged possession of Trayvon's cellphone?

521 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:40:35pm

re: #518 ggt

And with that, I'm toast. Good night, & sleep tight all of you.

522 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:40:45pm

The USA is a very rich country.

But in many respects. Despite our freedoms. We are a very backwards country and no different than many 3rd world countries.

523 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:40:55pm

I'm off

hash it out all

524 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:48:07pm

Zimmerman is free because the cops were trying to cover their ass with a dead john doe on their hands.

525 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:49:26pm

re: #522 Gus

The USA is a very rich country.

But in many respects. Despite our freedoms. We are a very backwards country and no different than many 3rd world countries.

Let's face it, humans suck, some more than others.

Like this stone-cold killer Zimmerman and the Sanford PD who let him go after gunning down an 17-year-old unarmed black kid. From what I'm gathering from all that's come out, Zimmerman's trigger finger got real itchy, even after the 911 operator told him to back off; he was looking for a fight, even if he had to instigate it.

I'll bet that the PD has the phone or knows where it wound up; if I were the lawyer for Trayvon's parents, I'd be getting call/text records from the carrier. Since the DOJ's involved now, I'd hope that is one of their priorities.

526 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:52:22pm

re: #525 talon_262

[snip] I'll bet that the PD has the phone or know where it wound up; if I were the lawyer for Trayvan's parents, I'd be getting call/text records from the carrier.

I think that's excellent advice.

527 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:56:17pm

And I would ask whether any of the 911 calls were from Trayvon Martin.

528 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:57:16pm

freepers to their credit with very few exceptions think zimmerman was clearly out of line and probably killed trayvon without justification

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

529 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:58:00pm

re: #525 talon_262

Let's face it, humans suck, some more than others.

Like this stone-cold killer Zimmerman and the Sanford PD who let him go after gunning down an 17-year-old unarmed black kid. From what I'm gathering from all that's come out, Zimmerman's trigger finger got real itchy, even after the 911 operator told him to back off; he was looking for a fight, even if he had to instigate it.

I'll bet that the PD has the phone or knows where it wound up; if I were the lawyer for Trayvon's parents, I'd be getting call/text records from the carrier. Since the DOJ's involved now, I'd hope that is one of their priorities.

The part where he said something like "They always get away" seems pretty damning to me. He made up his mind right there he was going to do something.

530 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:58:28pm

re: #527 abolitionist

And I would ask whether any of the 911 calls were from Trayvor Martin.

Oh man. If there's a 911 call from that kid begging for help because some guy with a gun is chasing him, I hope the PD that tried to cover this up gets their ass handed to them.

531 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 10:59:55pm

re: #528 engineer cat

freepers to their credit with very few exceptions think zimmerman was clearly out of line and probably killed trayvon without justification

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Even Freepers get the Broken Clock Syndrome once in a while; doesn't make the lot of them any less a bunch of shitheads, but I digress.

532 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:03:21pm

in other news, ignatz cat has taken a decided liking to strawberries

i'm not going to be the one that tells him that strawberries are not rodents

533 freetoken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:10:57pm

re: #532 engineer cat

Strawberry juice is red.
Rodent's bleed red.

Red is red.

534 BongCrodny  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:13:53pm

Apologies if this has already been posted, but here's a good Miami Herald article on the Trayvon Martin case.

Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops

Some of the area residents had good things to say about Zimmerman, but the line that struck me as telling was from Frank Taaffee, a former neighborhood block captain.

He suspects Zimmerman got tired of thugs “and reached his breaking point,” Taaffe said. “But why was he carrying a gun? Why not carry pepper spray or a Taser? That’s bizarre-o.”

Zimmerman carrying a loaded gun on a neighborhood watch program; there's no way to fault anybody for thinking that this is a guy who really wanted something to happen.

535 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:28:45pm

University of Houston College Paper: Radical Christianity is dangerous for nation

Before Louisiana pastor Dennis Terry introduced Rick Santorum to his congregation on Sunday, he took a few minutes to hurl some fire and brimstone down from the pulpit.

“I don’t care what the liberals say, I don’t care what the naysayers say, this nation was founded as a Christian nation…There is only one God and his name is Jesus. I’m tired of people telling me that I can’t say those words,” Terry said.

“Listen to me. If you don’t love America, if you don’t like the way we do things, I have one thing to say — get out. We don’t worship Buddha, we don’t worship Mohammad, we don’t worship Allah. We worship God. We worship God’s son Jesus Christ.”

In his diatribe Terry indirectly addressed the biggest threat to our nation. The biggest threat to our nation — our liberty — is radical Christianity.

Terry’s diatribe, and Santorum’s complacence, reveal that radical Christians don’t want a democracy — they want a theocracy.

more at link

536 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:38:22pm

what? jay leno grew a mustache??

537 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:39:18pm

Speaking of stories that keep unfolding:

Staff Sgt. Robert Bales was found liable in financial fraud

The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, figure prominently in the still-evolving portrait of Robert Bales, the Army staff sergeant being held in a massacre of 16 villagers in southern Afghanistan. Like many others, Bales enlisted out of a sense of civic responsibility, his friends and attorney have said.

But Bales’s decision to join the Army also came at a pivotal point in his pre-military career — a career as a stock trader that appears to have ended months after he was accused of engaging in financial fraud while handling the retirement account of an elderly client in Ohio, according to financial records.

An arbitrator later ordered Bales and the owner of the firm that employed him to pay $1.4 million — about half for compensation and half in punitive damages — for taking part in “fraud” and “unauthorized trading,” according to a ruling from the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, the independent disciplinary board for brokers and brokerage houses.

A review of the investor’s account statements, obtained by The Washington Post, shows that valuable stocks were sold off in favor of penny stocks as part of what the arbitrator called “churning” by Bales to pump up commissions.

The client, Gary Liebschner, a 74-year-old retired engineer for AT&T, said Sunday that he “never got paid a penny” of the award.

There is no indication that the civil ruling weighed on Bales in recent years. He never attended an arbitration hearing in the case — although he had been given legal notice of his right to present his version of events — and an attorney for Liebschner said it had been years since his client had attempted to collect the award from Bales.

But the finding of financial fraud adds to an increasingly complex picture of a man who, on the one hand, is described by friends and neighbors as a family man and an even-tempered soldier, and, on the other, had repeated encounters with the law, including an arrest on suspicion of drunken driving, involvement in a hit-and-run accident and a misdemeanor assault charge.

In addition to those incidents, he had evidently been under financial stress. His home near Tacoma was put up for a short sale a few days before the March 11 shootings in Afghanistan.

Bales is being held at a detention center at Fort Leavenworth, Kan. He is expected to be formally charged in the coming days.

538 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:51:22pm

re: #537 Lidane

Speaking of stories that keep unfolding:

Staff Sgt. Robert Bales was found liable in financial fraud

Robert Bales' lawyer: Suspect in Afghan slaughter can't remember killing 16 people

Lawyer John Henry Browne said Robert Bales remembers some details from before and after the killings, but very little or nothing of the time the military says it believes he went on a shooting spree.

"He has some memory of some things that happened that night. He has some memories of before the incident, and he has some memories of after the incident. In between, very little," Browne said from Ft. Leavenworth, where Bales is being held.

Pressed on whether Bales can remember anything about the shooting, Browne said, "No," but added: "I haven't gotten that far with him yet."

Horseshit

539 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:53:50pm

re: #538 Kragar

Robert Bales' lawyer: Suspect in Afghan slaughter can't remember killing 16 people

Horseshit

Yeah, I don't buy that either. I'm pretty sure that unless you have a total psychotic break and/or are under the influence of some really strong shit, you'd remember mowing down 16 people.

540 AK-47%  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:53:59pm

Late to this thread, already morning here in Europe:

let us cut to the quick on the question of race in the eyes of America's Right Wing: "White" in its pure form really only applies to WASP. As in those people we allow to join our country clubs.

Non-Protestant whites are more or less tolerated as long as they are sufficiently WASP-ish in their work and social habits. Rick Santorum is a true poster child in that respect.

Fair-skinned Hispanics, even those with predominantly Spanish blood and only a bit ot mestizo, do not count, and Cubans and Puerto Ricans, with their greater admixture of negro blood, are totally out of the question.

Any questions? Now let's get back to the ongoing hatefest that comprises political discourse in America.

541 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 12:02:08am

At the end of a Orlando Sentinel news story on the web
Trayvon Martin shooting: Screams, shots heard on 911 call

I see this nonsense:
Comments (767)
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Hell no, thank you.

And there's no mention of the cellphone in the story now. I was expecting to find such, since the following accompanied the link to the story (via dogpile):
Trayvon Martin shooting 911 calls: Sanford Police to release 911 ...
www.orlandosentinel.com/…l-20120316,0,5950789.story

Found on: Google, Yahoo! Search
3 days ago ... Sanford Police to release 911 calls in Trayvon Martin shooting. ... And they have yet to review what's on Trayvon's cell phone, something the ...

However, searching for "yet to review what's on Trayvon's cell phone" I've found an exact match in this forum, which indicates what happened to that phone.
[Link: forums.anandtech.com...]

Zimmerman told police that Trayvon was the aggressor. Police have found no credible evidence, Serino said, to contradict that.
"Everything we have is adding up to what he says," said Serino.
There are gaps, Capt. Bob O'Connor admitted, in what police have been able to piece together. And they have yet to review what's on Trayvon's cell phone, something the family surrendered only after police issued a subpoena.

So the family had the phone, but the police confiscated it.

542 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 12:58:14am

Looks like this thread has been chased down and shot dead by an overzealous community watch captain...

543 researchok  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:13:14am

Morning, all

544 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:16:08am

aha! the perpetrator!

545 researchok  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:17:38am

It's a conspiracy.

546 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:20:44am

I think that people here should have to list their race and national origin when registering...

/

547 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:21:04am

and send in a blood sample as proof.

548 freetoken  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:00:20am

re: #542 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

549 freetoken  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:09:16am
550 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:10:48am

once again, freetoken's audio postings as the drip sustaining a moribund thread...

551 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:20:25am

Whale meat again?

552 EdDantes  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:32:40am

re: #551 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Whale Meat Again was a Jim capaldi album from the seventies. But you knew that. :)

553 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:39:02am

re: #552 EdDantes

Yes, you have my tastes well pegged.

Or peg-legged?

554 EdDantes  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:54:19am

re: #553 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

"The Low Spark of Peg-Legged boys." Nope. Doesn't have the right ring to it.

555 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 2:57:45am

Featuring Stevie Winwoodenleg?

556 EdDantes  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 3:19:52am

Is this a dead thread which I see before me, the handle toward my hand? Come, let me clutch thee.

557 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 3:58:24am

re: #487 Gus

Confirmed, assuming the audio tape wasn't ...augmented.
The racist epithet is about 2 seconds after
Zimmerman: The back entrance.
and about 1 second before
911 guy: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yea.
911 guy: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

558 S.D.  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 4:07:16am

It's what the White Wing does: Call everyone else racist to detract from their own racism *AND* attempt to change the narrative (I.E. NRA gun 'laws')...

559 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 4:38:16am

What a fucking joke.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

Florida is going to start drug-testing state employees-- but it specifically exempts the legislators and governor.

Pathetic.

560 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 4:46:41am

Open Letter to the Leaders of the Syrian Opposition
Regarding Human Rights Abuses by Armed Opposition Members

We are writing to express our concern about increasing evidence, as described below, of kidnappings, the use of torture, and executions by armed Syrian opposition members and strongly urge you to work to ensure that all opposition members refrain from engaging in these unlawful practices.

561 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:11:27am

Morning Lizardim. Had a spectacular thunderstorm last night here in the wild north country. The initial wind and downpour was amazing. What's new in the land of the odd?

562 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:16:28am

re: #561 thedopefishlives

What's new in the land of the odd?

Dunno, I live in the garden of even. //

563 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:30:50am

Adam and Even?

564 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:33:43am

re: #563 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Adam and Even?

It was Adam and Even not Adam and Todd!

565 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:35:19am

The land of Odd was some time after the garden of Even. Lots of incest was involved.

566 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:41:26am

re: #565 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

The land of Odd was some time after the garden of Even. Lots of incest was involved.

Was Todd a bit Odd?

567 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:54:10am

re: #566 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Was Todd a bit Odd?

No, but he had a great bod!

568 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:54:57am

re: #567 sattv4u2

No, but he had a great bod!

nothing like a hot Toddy at bedtime...

569 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:55:49am

re: #568 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

nothing like a hot Toddy at bedtime...

NTTAWWT.

Beat ya, satt.

570 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 5:56:50am

re: #568 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

People who get all hot and bothered about non-human evil things are really weird. I wonder what's going on there.

571 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:01:38am

re: #570 Obdicut

[Embedded content]People who get all hot and bothered about non-human evil things are really weird. I wonder what's going on there.

Very simple. Try to reconcile a benevolent and loving God with all the evil in the world and you have to come up with Satan or some other forces of Evil, which somehow exist outside of and against God.

And then you project that Satan onto people you dislike or disagree with and - like magic! More evil!!!

572 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:02:28am

Interesting comments to that Miami Herald article I posted earlier this morning.

I don't know that I'll make it through all 160 pages (!), but at least in the first half-dozen pages of the comments the vast majority take the position that Zimmerman was definitely out of line.

Some of the best-reasoned arguments against Zimmerman's excess are from gun owners.

573 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:03:05am

re: #571 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

By hot and bothered, I meant "touch the naughty bits of".

574 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:04:18am

re: #573 Obdicut

By hot and bothered, I meant "touch the naughty bits of".

You mean like how witches were accused of having sex with Beelzebub?

575 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:04:50am

re: #572 BongCrodny

Zimmerman doesn't know what he's let himself in for yet. I'm not talking about legally, but the psychological toll that killing another human has on you. Even under the best of circumstances-- a totally justified killing, such as in war, or in true, unmitigated self-defense-- people are devastated by it. And he knows that he made this happen. It's never going to go away.

576 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:04:57am

re: #573 Obdicut

By hot and bothered, I meant "touch the naughty bits of".

Ding for quality unnecessary clarification.

577 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:06:46am

re: #572 BongCrodny

Some of the best-reasoned arguments against Zimmerman's excess are from gun owners.

I can cope with "stand your ground" even if I disagree with it, but this was not "stand your ground", it was "pursue and gun down".

I really worry about what will happen in American cities if there is a major breakdown of public order due to some natural and/or man-made catastrophe.

Some here have told me that I am overdoing it visions of pickup trucks full of vigilantes out gunning down anything they see as suspicious, but this story fuels my concerns.

578 HAL2010  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:11:20am

re: #577 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I can cope with "stand your ground" even if I disagree with it, but this was not "stand your ground", it was "pursue and gun down".

This.

Just an awful, awful situation. I feel so sorry for Trayvon Martins parents.

579 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:12:18am

re: #497 ggt

grape juice is permitted! consult your local rabbi for details

580 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:14:35am

re: #575 Obdicut

Zimmerman doesn't know what he's let himself in for yet. I'm not talking about legally, but the psychological toll that killing another human has on you. Even under the best of circumstances-- a totally justified killing, such as in war, or in true, unmitigated self-defense-- people are devastated by it. And he knows that he made this happen. It's never going to go away.

Well... sorta. A couple of caveats.

a) There are some people who aren't bothered killing others. They may be "functional" but they're not what you and I would consider "normal". Both psycopaths and sociopaths go here.

b) "Killing another human" doesn't bother the killer if they don't consider the other person human. It's one of the reasons dehumanization of the enemy occurs, especially among those who have to fight wars, but if you don't consider them 'really' human anyway (coons, I believe Zimmerman said) then killing them isn't as bothersome.

581 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:14:39am

re: #435 ggt

sometimes I wish I had been born into a Jewish family. Brains, brains, and artistic talent --and you don't have to put up that damned tree every year!

you have to put up a succah every year.

plus everyone hates you, and you'll get blamed for shooting black kids in Florida.

582 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:15:38am

re: #577 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Some here have told me that I am overdoing it visions of pickup trucks full of vigilantes out gunning down anything they see as suspicious, but this story fuels my concerns.

Should this type of escalate and we start getting "Death Wish" wannabees on every street corner the country's fucked, but I took some positives from the comments by virtue of the fact that so many people were arguing against Zimmerman's vigilantism.

583 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:17:36am

re: #575 Obdicut

Zimmerman doesn't know what he's let himself in for yet. I'm not talking about legally, but the psychologically toll that killing another human has on you. Even under the best of circumstances-- a totally justified killing, such as in war, or in true, unmitigated self-defense-- people are devastated by it. And he knows that he made this happen. It's never going to go away.

It depends on if they are completely messed in the head, as re: #580 kirkspencer pointed out. Time will tell if Zimmerman is one of those, but I'm leaning toward yes.

584 HAL2010  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:18:29am

OT I know, but maybe someone could turn this into a page?

I feel rather inept at the whole "creating-pages".

Economist Justin Wolfers tweets a graph from Mark Thoma that's very much worth talking about. It measures per capita growth in government spending for the last seven presidents' first term in office. This is what he finds:

Image: AoIlA-NCMAESV2s.gif

But the bottom line is that it is really, truly time for the myth about Big Spender Obama to die. If anything, it is remarkable that, after a recession and a private sector implosion, the public sector expanded less under this administration than it did under Bush or Reagan, especially when you consider the government cuts made at the state and local levels.

Link

585 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:18:33am

re: #582 BongCrodny

Should this type of escalate and we start getting "Death Wish" wannabees on every street corner the country's fucked, but I took some positives from the comments by virtue of the fact that so many people were arguing against Zimmerman's vigilantism.

It's partially that a lot of people realize that living in "the Wild West" is not all that it is cracked up to be.

586 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:18:42am

re: #582 BongCrodny

Should this type of escalate and we start getting "Death Wish" wannabees on every street corner the country's fucked, but I took some positives from the comments by virtue of the fact that so many people were arguing against Zimmerman's vigilantism.

Yes, I know some reasonable, responsible gun owners...but remember the run on ammo in 2008 when everybody was convinced that Obama was gonna take away their weapons?

587 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:20:23am

re: #580 kirkspencer

Well sure. Some antisocial personalities aren't bothered by it. Nor are people who lack short term memory formation.

Killing another human" doesn't bother the killer if they don't consider the other person human.

It's really hard to get someone to not consider another person human. The Nazis found this in having their SS units shoot Jews. They'd been inundated with propaganda about Jews being vermin since birth, and it still broken them down.

(coons, I believe Zimmerman said)

This hasn't been verified. It might have been, it might have been punks, it might have been something else. We don't know.

588 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:21:45am

re: #583 thedopefishlives

It depends on if they are completely messed in the head, as re: #580 kirkspencer pointed out. Time will tell if Zimmerman is one of those, but I'm leaning toward yes.

Real antisocial personalities are rare. Much more rare than people who are aggressive assholes.

589 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:22:41am

re: #585 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's partially that a lot of people realize that living in "the Wild West" is not all that it is cracked up to be.

Most towns in the Wild West required you to check your guns in with the Sheriff or Marshall when you entered. Which is one of the things that allowed towns to exist at all.

590 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:25:44am

re: #588 Obdicut

Real antisocial personalities are rare. Much more rare than people who are aggressive assholes.

Reminds me of the antisocial acquaintance you described, saying that if you tortured someone to death in front of him, his only emotion would be annoyance at all the noise. I think you also said his problem was that he couldn't feel empathy at all, while the desire to see others suffer actually is a form of empathy, albeit a maladaptive one.

That being the case, would you say sadistic killers aren't actually sociopaths? Because according to how you described your friend, he could kill someone "inconvenient" to him without feeling guilt, but wouldn't go out of his way to inflict pain.

591 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:29:24am

re: #590 Interesting Times

I don't understand sadists at all. Seeing other people suffer makes me really uncomfortable and I can't imagine it being enjoyable. So it's difficult for me to think and theorize about. One of the reasons I could never make it as a boxer-- if the other guy showed signs of actually agony, if I was really getting into him, I had to fight against the urge to slack off.

So the inverse, getting pleasure out of it, yeah, to me that's weirder than my friend who just feels blank about it. I've read some stuff that asserts many sadists are highly self-loathing, but obviously some aren't. Then you've got the sociopaths who feel no empathy, but love being in control of other people, and pain is a form of control, so I think you get an overlap there.

592 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:31:38am

re: #586 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Yes, I know some reasonable, responsible gun owners...but remember the run on ammo in 2008 when everybody was convinced that Obama was gonna take away their weapons?

Oh, absolutely; the "scary black man in the White House" is a powerful image to the insecure, racist and paranoid types -- but there's a big difference between gun aficionados and gun fetishists.

And -- knock wood -- they aren't yet completely shooting up the streets.

593 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:32:04am

re: #572 BongCrodny

Interesting comments to that Miami Herald article I posted earlier this morning.

I don't know that I'll make it through all 160 pages (!), but at least in the first half-dozen pages of the comments the vast majority take the position that Zimmerman was definitely out of line.

Some of the best-reasoned arguments against Zimmerman's excess are from gun owners.

That's not really a surprise to me. Hopefully my own arguments yesterday would be in the same ball park. It's not a responsibility to take lightly. Like Eastwood's character in Unforgiven put it,

It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

594 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:32:13am

re: #575 Obdicut

Zimmerman doesn't know what he's let himself in for yet. I'm not talking about legally, but the psychological toll that killing another human has on you. Even under the best of circumstances-- a totally justified killing, such as in war, or in true, unmitigated self-defense-- people are devastated by it. And he knows that he made this happen. It's never going to go away.

We got no idea what is going on in the gunman's head right now.

All I want to see is that this case is thoroughly and properly investigated.

595 LadyBehir  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:32:29am

Any truth to the rumor that Zimmerman had a head wound and/or a bloody nose? Husband says he'd read so and I've not seen any other story to confirm.

596 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:34:03am

re: #595 LadyBehir

Witnesses differ. In his booking photo there's no bloody nose.

Edit: Sorry think that's an old booking photo.

597 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:34:55am

re: #577 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I can cope with "stand your ground" even if I disagree with it, but this was not "stand your ground", it was "pursue and gun down".

I really worry about what will happen in American cities if there is a major breakdown of public order due to some natural and/or man-made catastrophe.

Some here have told me that I am overdoing it visions of pickup trucks full of vigilantes out gunning down anything they see as suspicious, but this story fuels my concerns.

If it's The Road they're not vigilantes.

598 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:35:55am

re: #595 LadyBehir

Basically, the lack of the police in collecting evidence really has left us with a lot of unanswered questions, that may never get answered.

599 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:38:47am

re: #597 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

If it's The Road they're not vigilantes.

Self-professed "Vigilantes" or "crackers with attitudes", the result is the same...

600 RadicalModerate  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:42:49am

FoxNews finally posted a story on the Zimmerman/Martin case, after it got the DoJ investigating it.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

And the floodgates have literally opened with the racists in the comments area. We're talking roughly 30 comments per minute here.

601 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:45:41am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

FoxNews finally posted a story on the Zimmerman/Martin case, after it got the DoJ investigating it.

"Zimmerman has not been charged in the case. Although police have described him as white, his family says he is Hispanic and not racist."

This is a good red herring. It is not so much about race as about gun laws.

602 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:46:02am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

And there's the failure to understand race in the Fox article:

Zimmerman has not been charged in the case. Although police have described him as white, his family says he is Hispanic and not racist.

603 HAL2010  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:52:55am

major OT warning.

Got so pissed that I made my first page just now.

Please read it and say what you think.


The myth of Obama the Socialist

604 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:56:58am

The Afghanistan massacre story develops further - now the defense lawyers are starting to roll out the PR campaign.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Obviously I know nothing about the guy and his wife's prior political persuasions, but I find it very interesting that the "diminished personal responsibility" angle is set to be played.

605 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 6:59:22am

re: #604 iossarian

Most cases of 'amnesia' aren't true. And if he was blackout drunk, he'd probably not have been able to do what he did.

606 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:09:25am

Hey all!

Let's start the day with some really, really good articles about the War on the Individual:

What "Rape Sonograms" are all about.

Legislators: Women are not Cows or Pigs

The second one is from my fb and I LOVE IT!

How is everyone?

607 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:13:43am

OK. That does it. I already heard the name "Peyton Manning" far too many times in the past 24 hours.

608 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:15:25am

re: #607 Gus

I prefer Meyton Panning, myself, though Mannpey Ington is pretty sweet too.

609 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:16:48am

re: #608 Obdicut

I prefer Meyton Panning, myself, though Mannpey Ington is pretty sweet too.

Bleh. It's all way too goofy for my tastes. Local news around here... Listening to them... I feel like I'm in some Motel 6 somewhere in flyover country at times.

610 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:20:17am

I made the bottom comments list again for advocating for a fair trial and constitutional rights for Zimmerman. The lefty version of LGF sure is a strange place.

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:21:04am

The map of the states shows a pattern, the pattern is not a big suprise, but seeing in is rather shocking.

These statistics are not a coincidence. Racism, sexism, homophobia – they go hand in hand and the people oppressed by them experience them in intersecting ways. Worldwide, women’s human rights are complicated by these intersections.

Like these two Virginia bills, anti-misegenation laws were really not about “morality” or “decency”, but about social order. They’re not about “personhood” but “humanity.” Sex, controlling other people’s private lives, dictating what they do with their bodies and controlling their “place” in society. The more “human” you perceive yourself to be, the more you presume you have authority to tell others how to be and what to do. And, like those laws, these bills are based on ignorance, entitlement and arrogance. After many years, the Lovings won their landmark case and succeeded in finally dismantling shameful government-sanctioned racism in regards to mixed-race marriages.

612 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:21:56am

re: #610 Killgore Trout

I made the bottom comments list again for advocating for a fair trial and constitutional rights for Zimmerman. The lefty version of LGF sure is a strange place.

Is it what you said, or how you said it?

613 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:22:57am

Interesting. I got annoyed by the "yet another racist comment flood" at Faux and posted my on little bit of snark to be washed away in the tide. I got a pop up saying my comment was awaiting approval by a moderator. Does this mean all comments are approved? That someone is actively allowing this racist garbage on Faux? It wouldn't surprise me but still...

614 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:23:40am

re: #610 Killgore Trout

I made the bottom comments list again for advocating for a fair trial and constitutional rights for Zimmerman. The lefty version of LGF sure is a strange place.

Weirdly enough, I advocated the same thing and didn't make it to the bottom.

Funny, that. Oh well, Not worth you thinking about, probably, since you're The Only Good Man On LGF(tm).

615 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:24:09am

I love this:

The more “human” you perceive yourself to be, the more you presume you have authority to tell others how to be and what to do.

George Orwell must be seething in his grave.

616 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:24:22am

Testing:

"Zimmerman should receive a fair trial and not be denied his constitutional rights."

617 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:26:25am

re: #612 ggt

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first. (-3)
That's pretty outrageous

618 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:28:57am

re: #617 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first. (-3)
That's pretty outrageous

deserves might be the offensive word here.

While technically he does deserve it, it is society that truly deserves it in this case. We can't let ourselves fall to our base instincts --which might also be a just outcome, but we won't know that until the trial is complete.

Like I said earlier, if it were my kid, they'd have to lock me up.

619 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:29:07am

re: #612 ggt

Is it what you said, or how you said it?

Exactly. Disingenuous, passive-aggressive game-playing coupled with an overweening faux-martyr attitude = making the Bottom Comments (and to answer the question you asked upthread, Walter was eventually banned when it was revealed he shared private emails other Lizards had sent to him with the stalker blog)

620 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:29:58am

re: #617 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first. (-3)
That's pretty outrageous

Lidane clearly said that what she meant was that he should be in jail and charged with murder while awaiting trial, in her follow-up comments.

Arrest Zimmerman for murder and hold him while the investigation is ongoing. He's clearly dangerous.

The difference between jail and prison makes her original comment reasonable, unless you're looking for an outrage.

Your comment is also reasonable, unless you're actually saying he shouldn't be charged and held.

621 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:30:36am

re: #620 Obdicut

Lidane clearly said that what she meant was that he should be in jail and charged with murder while awaiting trial, in her follow-up comments.

The difference between jail and prison makes her original comment reasonable, unless you're looking for an outrage.

Your comment is also reasonable, unless you're actually saying he shouldn't be charged and held.

holding him might save his life.

622 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:31:13am

re: #621 ggt

holding him might save his life.

or at least keep him alive for the trial. don't know how long he'd last in prison.

623 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:31:41am

re: #618 ggt

deserves might be the offensive word here.

Yeah that seems to be the case. It's still strange to me. Oh well, I just thought it was strange. Not a big deal

624 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:32:58am

re: #623 Killgore Trout

Yeah that seems to be the case. It's still strange to me. Oh well, I just thought it was strange. Not a big deal

Good. We can stop talking about it then.

DJI 13,142

625 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:33:32am

re: #610 Killgore Trout

I made the bottom comments list again for advocating for a fair trial and constitutional rights for Zimmerman. The lefty version of LGF sure is a strange place.

Problem is, KT, that everyone around here knows full well that if Zimmerman were with OWS you'd be screaming against him far louder. Funny that, eh?

626 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:36:01am

re: #624 iossarian

Good. We can stop talking about it then.

DJI 13,142

No, we must keep KT the topic of discussion.

/

627 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:44:20am

hmmm

The Dodd-Frank law on conflict minerals is already having an effect in Eastern Congo, damping or halting production at many mines even before the disclosure regulations for companies are in place.

628 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:45:40am

ahhh!

Irma Villarreal, chief securities counsel for Kraft Foods, said during the S.E.C. roundtable that Kraft produced 40,000 distinct products and used 100,000 suppliers, creating a Herculean task of auditing supply chains for conflict minerals.

Nonprofit groups that support the new regulation say a growing number of companies — Intel, Motorola and Hewlett-Packard among them, according to the Enough Project, a nongovernmental organization that works against genocide and crimes against humanity — have already made significant steps to inspect and adjust their supply lines to avoid tainted sources of conflict minerals.

629 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:46:48am

re: #627 ggt

FTA:

The measure is aimed at cutting off the brutal militia groups that have often taken over the mining and sale of so-called conflict minerals to finance their military aims. Just about every company affected by the law says they support it, but many business groups have also been pushing aggressively to put wiggle room in the restrictions, calling for lengthy phase-in periods, exemptions for minimal use of the minerals and loose definitions of what types of uses are covered.

Free markets FTW! Unless you're caught in a war zone! In which case, you lose!

630 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:48:24am

re: #608 Obdicut

I prefer Meyton Panning, myself, though Mannpey Ington is pretty sweet too.

Carol Channing > Sybil Danning > Dakota Fanning > Peyton Manning

631 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:48:44am

re: #630 BongCrodny

Carol Channing > Sybil Danning > Dakota Fanning > Peyton Manning

bo banna!

632 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:50:13am

[Link: en.ria.ru...]

Moscow has denied media reports that a Russian warship has arrived in Syria, while a senior member of European parliament demanded an inquiry into the allegations.
As tensions around Syria escalate, media reports circulated on Monday said a Russian warship with marines onboard had arrived off the Syrian coast. Russia, an ally of President Bashar al-Assad, denied the reports, but a senior member of the European parliament demanded an inquiry into the allegations.
The Russian Defense Ministry said on Tuesday one of its tankers, Iman, had arrived off the Syrian coast for technical reasons and its civilian crew was accompanied by security guards. The ministry said the tanker was carrying fuel and food supplies for the Russian Black Sea and Northern fleets, which are engaged in anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden.

633 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:54:34am

re: #630 BongCrodny

Carol Channing > Sybil Danning > Dakota Fanning > Peyton Manning

Carl Channig can't complete the short out pattern anymore

Sybil Danning ,,, you never know who's going to show up that day

Dakota Fanning ,, minor leageur (there are no NFL teams in the Dakotas)

That leaves Peyton

634 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:55:21am

re: #610 Killgore Trout

I made the bottom comments list again for advocating for a fair trial and constitutional rights for Zimmerman. The lefty version of LGF sure is a strange place.

I see a few people here that seem to be advocating that Zimmerman be shot without a fair trial. Call be a right wing radical wingnut but I don't think that's fair.

635 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:57:10am
636 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:58:07am

re: #610 Killgore Trout

I made the bottom comments list again for advocating for a fair trial and constitutional rights for Zimmerman. The lefty version of LGF sure is a strange place.

Welcome to the New World ,, same as the Old World, just from the alternate/parallel universe!!
/

637 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:58:51am

re: #636 sattv4u2

Welcome to the New World ,, same as the Old World, just from the alternate/parallel universe!!
/

Where Spock is in touch with his feelings!

638 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:58:55am

re: #635 ggt

Krono, KT loves when the controversy is about him.

it only serves to derail the threads.

Ignore him ,,, don't respond,, talk about the weather,, or sports ,,, or sex

He doesn't like those topics!!

639 jaunte  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:58:59am

re: #634 Kronocide

I missed those 'shoot him' comments.

640 jaunte  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:59:43am
641 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 7:59:59am

re: #639 jaunte

Two people said some stuff that, taken one way, could mean that. They both rapidly clarified what they meant.

642 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:00:18am

re: #240 darthstar

Just don't send that genuflecting fucker to Minnesota...my Vikings don't need no stinking jesus freak soiling their image.

But you get him out on the boat and you could change his ways :-)

643 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:00:30am

I have a plan.

Let's consistently demonize the Tea Party and OWS day after day.

Then let's complain about demonization of "fellow Americans".

Who's with me?

644 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:01:28am

re: #643 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

I have a plan.

Let's consistently demonize the Tea Party and OWS day after day.

Then let's complain about demonization of "fellow Americans".

Who's with me?

I don't know, we could talk about a topic and hash out the facts from fiction.

645 jaunte  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:01:42am

re: #643 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

I'll be in my hut.

646 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:02:27am

re: #643 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Hey, if demonization means "Making more like Woland's assistants", I'm all for it.

US politics could do with a fat black cat the size of a large pig swinging from a chandelier while firing wildly with a handgun.

647 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:03:33am

re: #645 jaunte

I'll be in my hut.

looks nice and cool.

Makes me want a nap.

648 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:03:42am

re: #641 Obdicut

Two people said some stuff that, taken one way, could mean that. They both rapidly clarified what they meant.

KT must have missed that.

649 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:04:08am

re: #646 Obdicut

[Link: rutube.ru...]

650 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:04:11am

re: #646 Obdicut

Hey, if demonization means "Making more like Woland's assistants", I'm all for it.

US politics could do with a fat black cat the size of a large pig swinging from a chandelier while firing wildly with a handgun.

SEE??? LEFTYS SUPPORT SHOOTING!!!

WHEN WILL THE LEFTY DISGRACE CEASE???

651 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:04:50am

re: #645 jaunte

I'll be in my hut.

It's a trap!

652 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:05:13am

re: #650 iossarian

Behemoth never hits anything, though. He destroys a lot of furniture. Gets shot himself, blood spurting everywhere, drinks some lamp spirits, and then gets all better.

653 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:05:17am

re: #638 sattv4u2

Ignore him ,,, don't respond,, talk about the weather,, or sports ,,, or sex

He doesn't like those topics!!

Well, yeah, sex always seems to make people uncomfortable. So much so, they want to legislate it.

Which really will help the economy --more babies, more bills.

654 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:06:19am

re: #652 Obdicut

Behemoth never hits anything, though. He destroys a lot of furniture. Gets shot himself, blood spurting everywhere, drinks some lamp spirits, and then gets all better.

Isn't he somewhat responsible for the guy that gets beheaded by the tram at the start of the book though?

It's been a while.

655 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:06:22am

Lost my connection and went back to work on something.

656 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:06:50am

re: #654 iossarian

Nope. The girl who spilled the sunflower oil is responsible, if anyone.

657 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:07:25am

re: #654 iossarian

Isn't he somewhat responsible for the guy that gets beheaded by the tram at the start of the book though?

It's been a while.

It's Annushka, who spilled the oil.

658 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:07:34am

Stuff to do, groceries to buy. BBL.

659 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:07:43am

re: #652 Obdicut

Behemoth never hits anything, though. He destroys a lot of furniture. Gets shot himself, blood spurting everywhere, drinks some lamp spirits, and then gets all better.

Does the djin talk from his stomach --in Robin Williams voice?

660 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:07:51am

re: #643 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

I have a plan.

Let's consistently demonize the Tea Party and OWS day after day.

Then let's complain about demonization of "fellow Americans".

Who's with me?

Oh dear. That comment made me curious so I scrolled up.

Care for a cookie?

//

661 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:08:36am

re: #657 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

It's Annushka, who spilled the oil.

You know, it's not ringing a bell.

662 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:09:05am

Geez. A guy steps away to get some productive work done, and the whole thread descends into rapey stabby chaos.

663 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:09:13am

re: #661 ggt

You know, it's not ringing a bell.

Have you read Master and Margarita?

664 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:09:20am

I could murder a large margarita right now.

665 jaunte  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:09:22am

Fox News' Bret Baier:
"For the record, we found no examples of a host saying President Obama is a Muslim."

666 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:09:40am

re: #643 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

I have a plan.

Let's consistently demonize the Tea Party and OWS day after day.

Then let's complain about demonization of "fellow Americans".

Who's with me?

What about the females??

667 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:11:10am

re: #663 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Have you read Master and Margarita?

NO, but I see there are several choices on Audible. Should I get the unabridged or the dramatized version?

668 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:11:13am

re: #664 iossarian

I could murder a large margarita right now.

You should totally master that art.

669 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:11:13am

re: #665 jaunte

Fox News' Bret Baier:
"For the record, we found no examples of a host saying President Obama is a Muslim."

670 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:12:03am

re: #669 Interesting Times

inuendo is so much more effective than direct speech and facts.

671 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:12:21am

re: #667 ggt

NO, but I see there are several choices on Audible. Should I get the unabridged or the dramatized version?

I always prefer full versions, so I can't really pick the other one. ;)

672 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:12:36am

Let's pour a Martyr Margarita! Ole!

On the rocks, extra lime and salt.

673 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:13:06am

Burp.

674 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:13:28am

re: #673 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

Burp.

Oh, well done, sir. +1 Internet for you.

675 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:13:50am

re: #672 Kronocide

Let's pour a Martyr Margarita! Ole!

On the rocks, extra lime and salt.

Don't cry for me Little Green Footballs...

//

676 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:14:35am

re: #673 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

Burp.

Do those cookies come in the shape of Walter's smiling visage?

677 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:15:27am

re: #671 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

I always prefer full versions, so I can't really pick the other one. ;)

I'll get the unabridged in English. They offer a Russian version as well.

678 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:16:00am

re: #675 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

It won't be easy
You'll think it strange
When I try to explain how I feel
That I still need your love
After all that I've done

679 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:16:19am

re: #677 ggt

I'll get the unabridged in English. They offer a Russian version as well.

Read the Russian one, if you can. half-//

680 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:16:50am

re: #679 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Read the Russian one, if you can. half-//

It's audio. I don't think I could get much out of the Russian audio.

681 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:17:35am

re: #679 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Read the Russian one, if you can. half-//

I can't even swear in Russian.

683 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:19:27am

I'm still having a hard time bending my mind around the conflict minerals legislation.

Is this a way to compete with China in the rape of Afrika?

684 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:19:51am

re: #678 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

It won't be easy
You'll think it strange
When I try to explain how I feel
That I still need your love
After all that I've done

One day California will be ours! Bwahahaha!

I miss the days of talking about deviant panties; Al Gore; Folsom Street voyeurism; and the Kinsey Report. Now all I get is down dings!

[Cries.]

[Dobro slide.]

//

685 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:20:23am

re: #684 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

One day California will be ours! Bwahahaha!

I miss the days of talking about deviant panties; Al Gore; Folsom Street voyeurism; and the Kinsey Report. Now all I get is down dings!

[Cries.]

[Dobro slide.]

//

Ooh, you have a file too. //

686 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:21:21am

from the White House:

President Obama’s health reform law requires that new health insurance plans cover preventive services with no co-pay or deductible. In the last 18 months, approximately 20.4 million women with private health insurance have received preventive health services such as mammograms and pap smears at no additional cost because of this provision in the Affordable Care Act.

Besides improving access to services that help women stay healthy and detect health problems early on, health reform helps women in many other ways. For example, health insurance companies can no longer discriminate against women by charging them higher premiums than they charge men. Insurance companies are banned from imposing a limit on the amount of care they’ll cover over a woman’s lifetime, and are now required to spend at least 80 percent of premium dollars on care—not overhead.

Women who have been unable to purchase health insurance because of a pre-existing condition such as cancer or having been pregnant now have an option to obtain the insurance they need through the new Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan.

Beginning in 2014, the Affordable Care Act will be fully implemented and offer even greater protection for women and their health care, including a ban on denying care based on pre-existing conditions, and the removal of annual limits on care.

687 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:21:21am

re: #685 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Ooh, you have a file too. //

Yep. It's all on this little ol' USB flash card.

688 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:21:53am

re: #685 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Ooh, you have a file too. //

You have a lot of time on your hands if you have a file on all this stuff.

689 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:22:40am

re: #688 ggt

You have a lot of time on your hands if you have a file on all this stuff.

Heh, I don't, but don't tell anyone. KGB must uphold its image! //

690 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:23:46am
691 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:23:51am

NEED . MORE . COFFEE

692 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:24:41am

re: #672 Kronocide

Let's pour a Martyr Margarita! Ole!

On the rocks, extra lime and salt.

I thought the preferred martyr drink was a Rusty Nail.

693 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:24:46am

re: #676 iossarian

Do those cookies come in the shape of Walter's smiling visage?

Walter was (is) many things

Martyr isn't one of them

694 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:24:51am

re: #690 wrenchwench

God can be cruel.

Did anyone else immediately think of a box of matches?

695 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:25:06am

re: #691 ggt

NEED . MORE . COFFEE

GET . MORE . COFFEE

696 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:25:15am

re: #693 sattv4u2

Walter was (is) many things

Martyr isn't one of them

He is now. Self-made.

697 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:25:26am

[Cough]

698 jaunte  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:25:27am

re: #694 iossarian

Yeah, not a good place to be upstairs on bonfire night.

699 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:25:50am

re: #697 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

[Cough]

Concur.

700 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:26:01am

re: #696 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

He is now. Self-made.

No gov't assistance? Good for him!!

701 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:26:17am

re: #697 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

[Cough]

Quarantine for you.

702 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:26:24am

re: #662 thedopefishlives

Geez. A guy steps away to get some productive work done, and the whole thread descends into rapey stabby chaos.

I tuned up a bike, fixed a flat, vacuumed the carpet, and did a little vacuum maintenance. No rapey stabby for me, although I did have to pull a lot of hair, as part of the vacuum maintenance.

703 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:26:27am

Douche bag. [Cough]

704 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:26:31am

re: #636 sattv4u2

Welcome to the New World ,, same as the Old World, just from the alternate/parallel universe!!
/

That you would equate the current batch of Lizards with the old batch is the height of ignorance, not to mention offensive. I wonder what Charles would think about that.

Let's see who flounces first.

705 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:26:48am

Off to Excel Hell

BBL

706 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:27:12am

re: #700 sattv4u2

No gov't assistance? Good for him!!

You would have to see his whiny comments full of self-pity and hate at the stalker site to know what we're talking about here.

707 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:28:01am

re: #703 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

I'll take 2. Cookies, I mean.

708 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:28:01am

re: #704 Kronocide



Let's see who flounces first

Who are the candidates?

709 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:28:06am

re: #706 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

You would have to see his whiny comments full of self-pity and hate at the stalker site to know what we're talking about here.

Whiny comments? What's the stalker site? Never heard of such a thing.

//

710 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:28:20am

Back stabber. [Cough.]

711 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:28:49am

re: #709 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

Whiny comments? What's the stalker site? Never heard of such a thing.

//

Why do you pay attention to them at all? //

712 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:29:09am

re: #694 iossarian

Did anyone else immediately think of a box of matches?

Tree murder! There are living trees holding that thing up!

713 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:29:23am

re: #706 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

You would have to see his whiny comments full of self-pity and hate at the stalker site to know what we're talking about here.

Why would I want to go stalk a place where stalkers are?

Wouldn't that make me ,, well,, a stalker?

714 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:30:18am

I'll make a batch of Flounceapolitans

2 oz crappy tapwater
3 drops of Sunny Delight
1 oz crappy vodka
put in mixer with crushed ice, throw at computer
garnish with Martyr Cookie

715 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:30:41am

re: #713 sattv4u2

Why would I want to go stalk a place where stalkers are?

Wouldn't that make me ,, well,, a stalker?

If you didn't look, you shouldn't defend.

716 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:30:46am

re: #704 Kronocide

Let's see who flounces first.

Let me be on the record that I don't want anyone to flounce. Even various betes noires.

717 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:31:23am

re: #714 Kronocide

Sunny Delight - genius.

718 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:31:23am

re: #713 sattv4u2

Why would I want to go stalk a place where stalkers are?

Wouldn't that make me ,, well,, a stalker?

You know, albusteve used to preach that to us all the time. Look where he is now.

719 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:31:27am

re: #714 Kronocide

I'll make a batch of Flounceapolitans

2 oz crappy tapwater
3 drops of Sunny Delight
1 oz crappy vodka
put in mixer with crushed ice, throw at computer
garnish with Martyr Cookie

Mmm. Tasty. BRB. Gotta analyze the Climategate emails through my ENIAC machine.

//

721 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:32:04am

re: #716 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Let me be on the record that I don't want anyone to flounce. Even various betes noires.

Crème fraiche is my bête noire.

722 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:32:13am

re: #715 wrenchwench

If you didn't look, you shouldn't defend.

Fair point,,,, but it seems odd to complain about "stalkers" while following someone somewhere else to see what they're saying!

723 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:32:20am

re: #718 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

You know, albusteve used to preach that to us all the time. Look where he is now.

What happened to albusteve? Sometimes these things happen without one noticing.

724 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:32:44am

re: #721 Obdicut

Crème fraiche is my bête noire.

That's because you're a bete male! //bb

725 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:33:32am

re: #718 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

You know, albusteve used to preach that to us all the time. Look where he is now.

So you're saying I SHOULD check the stalkers frequently?

Sorry,,,but I
A) have no interest
B) better things to do with my time
C) don't care if someone thats left here says something about me

726 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:33:47am

re: #723 iossarian

What happened to albusteve? Sometimes these things happen without one noticing.

Somebody peed in his frosties one day.

727 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:34:15am

re: #722 sattv4u2

Fair point,,, but it seems odd to complain about "stalkers" while following someone somewhere else to see what they're saying!

If one is being stalked, keeping track of one's stalker makes one a sensible person interested in their own self defense, not another stalker.

FWIW, I don't go there any more, but partly because I know others do, and will alert me if need be.

728 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:34:49am

re: #725 sattv4u2

So you're saying I SHOULD check the stalkers frequently?

Sorry,,,but I
A) have no interest
B) better things to do with my time
C) don't care if someone thats left here says something about me

I don't care about the alterblog either, but I think the original point was that, if you're going to defend someone, it can be helpful to keep abreast of what they're currently saying about you.

729 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:35:01am

re: #726 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Somebody peed in his frosties one day.

What are you, serious?

730 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:35:23am

re: #726 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Somebody peed in his frosties one day.

One day, 365 days a year!

//

731 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:35:34am

re: #726 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Somebody peed in his frosties one day.

Some people pay good money for that!

732 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:35:36am

re: #727 wrenchwench

I looked over there once. It was really boring, and they were openly defending genocide. Haven't felt the need to check back.

733 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:36:04am

re: #729 thedopefishlives

What are you, serious?

Nah, I'm kidding. It was cheeseburgers.

734 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:36:22am

re: #727 wrenchwench

If one is being stalked, keeping track of one's stalker makes one a sensible person interested in their own self defense, not another stalker.

FWIW, I don't go there any more, but partly because I know others do, and will alert me if need be.

Okay,, lets be clear here
Someone (totally anonymous, btw) saying nasty things about "me" on an obscure chat site does not cause me to raise my "self defense" shields

735 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:36:30am

re: #688 ggt

You have a lot of time on your hands if you have a file on all this stuff.

It always gives me the creeps when people keep lists of bookmarks to stalk others. A few in the old days used to do that too,

736 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:36:33am

re: #732 Obdicut

I looked over there once. It was really boring, and they were openly defending genocide. Haven't felt the need to check back.

Yeah, it's pretty much a one sour note samba.

737 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:36:33am

re: #733 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Nah, I'm kidding. It was cheeseburgers.

In paradise.

738 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:37:10am

re: #728 iossarian

I don't care about the alterblog either, but I think the original point was that, if you're going to defend someone, it can be helpful to keep abreast of what they're currently saying about you.

see 734

739 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:37:14am

re: #734 sattv4u2

Okay,, lets be clear here
Someone (totally anonymous, btw) saying nasty things about "me" on an obscure chat site does not cause me to raise my "self defense" shields

Did you miss the part where it was revealed Walter shared private emails from people here WITH the nutters on the stalker blog? Don't you think people need to know about that, for safety reasons if nothing else?

740 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:37:50am

re: #735 Killgore Trout

Do you think it's creepy to just remember what someone said, too?

741 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:38:17am

re: #735 Killgore Trout

It always gives me the creeps when people keep lists of bookmarked to stalk others. A few in the old days used to do that too,

*favorited*

742 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:38:19am

re: #739 Interesting Times

Did you miss the part where it was revealed Walter shared private emails from people here WITH the nutters on the stalker blog? Don't you think people need to know about that, for safety reasons if nothing else?

But hey. That whole debacle and butthurt incident was really easy to miss.

//

743 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:38:46am

re: #741 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

*favorited*

Haha. I knew that little gem was for you.

744 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:10am

re: #734 sattv4u2

Okay,, lets be clear here
Someone (totally anonymous, btw) saying nasty things about "me" on an obscure chat site does not cause me to raise my "self defense" shields

Well, maybe not you. Some have more to be concerned about than others. I don't think everyone needs to be concerned, but I also think somebody who is not concerned should not make fun of people who are.

You know Walter threatened to release people's private info?

745 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:14am

re: #720 jaunte

Women flood Rick Perry's Facebook page and ask "Dr. Rick" women's health questions

OMG!

Think women are pissed?

Think Rick get's it?

746 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:14am

re: #741 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

*favorited*

;)

747 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:22am

re: #739 Interesting Times

Did you miss the part where it was revealed Walter shared private emails from people here WITH the nutters on the stalker blog? Don't you think people need to know about that, for safety reasons if nothing else?

I could give a rats ass less what someone does with a "private e-mail" I sent them. If I cared about the content being revealed at some point in time, I wouldn't have sent it ! Once I hit "SEND" it's out of my control, no???

748 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:40am

re: #734 sattv4u2

Okay,, lets be clear here
Someone (totally anonymous, btw) saying nasty things about "me" on an obscure chat site does not cause me to raise my "self defense" shields

I dunno. Ask KT. He reads that blog regularly, informs people here about upcoming dangers etc., he will explain this to you.

749 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:44am

re: #738 sattv4u2

see 734

No, that just answers the point that you don't feel the need to find out what other people are saying about you for your own personal self-esteem/defense/whatever.

It doesn't address the original point which is that it's risky to defend people to third parties without being aware of what they're saying. Which is how people interpreted your comment about Walter.

750 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:39:58am

re: #741 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

*favorited*

Someone's definitely having a bad cornflakes morning.

//

751 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:40:11am

re: #744 wrenchwench

You know Walter threatened to release people's private info?

see 747

752 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:40:59am

re: #749 iossarian

Which is how people interpreted your comment about Walter.

Thats a

them

problem,, not a

me

problem

753 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:41:06am

re: #747 sattv4u2

I could give a rats ass less what someone does with a "private e-mail" I sent them. If I cared about the content being revealed at some point in time, I wouldn't have sent it ! Once I hit "SEND" it's out of my control, no???

That's a load.

754 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:41:40am

re: #753 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

That's a load.

Really? And you know that ,,,,,, how???

(wait ,, are you stalking me!?!)
/

755 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:41:44am

re: #752 sattv4u2

Which is how people interpreted your comment about Walter.

Thats a

problem,, not a

problem

Like I said, don't make fun of people who do have a problem with it. That's all.

756 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:41:49am

re: #752 sattv4u2

Which is how people interpreted your comment about Walter.

Thats a

problem,, not a

problem

Heard that one before.

757 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:42:59am

I'm outta here.

Have a great day all!

758 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:43:03am

re: #747 sattv4u2

I could give a rats ass less what someone does with a "private e-mail" I sent them. If I cared about the content being revealed at some point in time, I wouldn't have sent it ! Once I hit "SEND" it's out of my control, no???

So people have no reason to worry about privacy if they have nothing to hide? Now where have I heard that before, and what has it been used to justify...

759 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:43:05am

re: #752 sattv4u2

Childish.

760 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:43:22am

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

Bullshit! Mitt Romney has never stolen money from or otherwise defrauded anyone. Don't attack a man for wrongs he has not committed. It is unjust and makes you look like an asshole.

Damon Corporation

761 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:43:52am

re: #756 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

Heard that one before.

And you'll hear it again, because thats really what I believe

If someone wants to confront me or has an issue with me we can deal with it one on one,,, face to face ,,, chat to chat ,, howeverr

BUT ,,, if someone is talking aboutme behind my back ,, as I stated ,, thats a "them" problem ,, not a "me" problem

(see,, I told you you'd hear it again!!)

762 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:44:43am

re: #747 sattv4u2

I could give a rats ass less what someone does with a "private e-mail" I sent them. If I cared about the content being revealed at some point in time, I wouldn't have sent it ! Once I hit "SEND" it's out of my control, no???

You started the discussion about Walter. You may not worry about emails, but people do. That makes Walter an utter and despicable creep. He even promised to release even private info, like names (though in the end he didn't). People tursted him - including some of your fellow conservatives - and he betrayed their trust.

Really, it's a no-brainer.

763 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:44:47am

re: #758 Interesting Times

So people have no reason to worry about privacy if they have nothing to hide? Now where have I heard that before, and what has it been used to justify...

Thats not what I said

If you want / need to "hide" something, don't put it out there!

764 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:45:33am

re: #762 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

You started the discussion about Walter

No,, actually,, I didn't

I responded to someone else posting about him

765 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:46:14am

re: #764 sattv4u2

You started the discussion about Walter

No,, actually,, I didn't

I responded to someone else posting about him

That was a casual mention. You started a discussion.

766 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:46:56am

re: #765 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

That was a casual mention. You started a discussion.

That's a you problem, not a him problem!

767 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:46:59am

re: #765 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

That was a casual mention. You started a discussion.

Hmmm,, and here I thought I "casually" responded!

768 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:47:17am

re: #766 Kronocide

That's a you problem, not a him problem!

Shwing! ;)

769 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:48:15am

re: #761 sattv4u2

And you'll hear it again, because thats really what I believe

If someone wants to confront me or has an issue with me we can deal with it one on one,,, face to face ,,, chat to chat ,, howeverr

BUT ,,, if someone is talking aboutme behind my back ,, as I stated ,, thats a "them" problem ,, not a "me" problem

(see,, I told you you'd hear it again!!)

Is it only about you here? Does no one else count?

771 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:48:44am

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

You made a very serious allegation. Either put up some evidence to back it up, or admit you made the argument without any evidence. Otherwise, feel free to Fuck Off.

Damon Corporation

772 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:49:58am
773 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:50:01am

re: #770 Lidane

When you have a gun and are following someone, congratulations, you're now the asshole.

Goddamn cowboy.

774 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:51:08am

re: #769 wrenchwench

Is it only about you here? Does no one else count?

When it comes to how I deal with someone somewhere maybe talking about me,,, yes,,my reaction to that (no reaction, btw) IS about me

You deal with it how you care too

775 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:54:50am

re: #772 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

Why don't you care about George Zimmerman's Constitutional rights?

//

This case will be surrounded by a mighty shoal of red herrings: race, persecution of Zimmerman, gun rights....

776 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:54:57am

re: #774 sattv4u2

When it comes to how I deal with someone somewhere maybe talking about me,,, yes,,my reaction to that (no reaction, btw) IS about me

You deal with it how you care too

See #755.

777 Lidane  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:55:52am

re: #773 Obdicut

When you have a gun and are following someone, congratulations, you're now the asshole.

Goddamn cowboy.

Oh, but that kid was a threat, don'tcha know. He was walking home from the store with Skittles and iced tea. Who knows what kind of evil he was up to?

///

778 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:56:04am

re: #774 sattv4u2

When it comes to how I deal with someone somewhere maybe talking about me,,, yes,,my reaction to that (no reaction, btw) IS about me

You deal with it how you care too

But you're happy to defend people without being aware of what they're saying about you, or indeed anyone else.

Which makes perfect sense.

779 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:56:50am

re: #776 wrenchwench

See #755.

Where did I make fun of someone?

I stated clearly how I deal with it. How "you" deal with something is on

you

!

780 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:57:08am

re: #775 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

This case will be surrounded by a mighty shoal of red herrings: race, persecution of Zimmerman, gun rights...

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to shoot and murder a young black man walking along with a bag of Skittles and a can of soda pop shall not be infringed.

781 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:57:48am

re: #780 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to shoot and murder a young black man walking along with a bag of Skittles and a can of soda pop shall not be infringed.

THEY WERE SOUR SKITTLES!! This makes it all okay.

782 jaunte  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:58:46am

re: #780 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

“Listen to me. If you don’t love America, and you don’t like the way we do things, I’ve got one thing to say, get out!"

783 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 8:59:08am

re: #779 sattv4u2

Where did I make fun of someone?

#713 & #722.

784 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:00:27am

re: #779 sattv4u2

Where did I make fun of someone?

Maybe you wouldn't call it 'making fun of'. Maybe you would call it 'ridiculing'.

785 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:01:04am

re: #782 jaunte

“Listen to me. If you don’t love America, and you don’t like the way we do things, I’ve got one thing to say, get out!"

...

Murica luv it or leaf it! You don't like are country why don't you mov to Rusha or Cubea!

786 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:02:26am

re: #783 wrenchwench

#713 & #722.

Sorry,, but 713 and 722 was a serious question. If I'm following someone to a site I don't comment on/ belong too just to see what they're saying about me doesn't that mean I'm stalking them?

787 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:02:50am

re: #786 sattv4u2

Sorry,, but 713 and 722 was a serious question. If I'm following someone to a site I don't comment on/ belong too just to see what they're saying about me doesn't that mean I'm stalking them?

I already answered that.

788 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:03:31am

re: #786 sattv4u2

Sorry,, but 713 and 722 was a serious question. If I'm following someone to a site I don't comment on/ belong too just to see what they're saying about me doesn't that mean I'm stalking them?

Wait. You mean KT is stalking the stalkers?

789 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:05:13am

re: #788 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Wait. You mean KT is stalking the stalkers?

Yup,,,, again, I have no idea why "you" would go somewhere knowing that they're saying shit about "you" and there's nothing "you" can do about it

Seems like a big waste of time and effort

790 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:05:36am

re: #788 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Wait. You mean KT is stalking the stalkers?

and BTW,,, I've told KT this before

791 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:05:36am

re: #788 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

Back in college, a female friend of mine asked me to stalk her so she could get the feeling of what it was like. But I sucked at it. I'd just call her and ask if she could come to where I was.

792 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:05:59am

And as I stated ,,

Off to Microsoft Excel Hell

BBL

793 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:07:09am

re: #791 Obdicut

Back in college, a female friend of mine asked me to stalk her so she could get the feeling of what it was like. But I sucked at it. I'd just call her and ask if she could come to where I was.

You should have had cards made

The Laziest Stalker In The World
In Office Appointments Only

794 Lidane  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:07:34am
795 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:08:10am

re: #789 sattv4u2

Yup,,, again, I have no idea why "you" would go somewhere knowing that they're saying shit about "you" and there's nothing "you" can do about it

Seems like a big waste of time and effort

Your judgement is duly noted.

Stalker Sour

1/2 oz Jaegermeister
1 oz vinegar
1 oz Popov Vodka, warm
garnish with Slim Jim

796 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:09:04am

re: #784 wrenchwench

Maybe you wouldn't call it 'making fun of'. Maybe you would call it 'ridiculing'.

I did neither

I asked a question

797 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:09:50am

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

No, I do not 'understand' that, not at all. Mitt Romney headed a firm that purchased and turned around firms in difficulties, and also provided funding for those seeking to expend their business. That is not theft by any standards I know.

Bullshit. Bain Capital and Carlyle Group are peas in the same pod. Fucking vultures. Let me tell you a story that went down here a few years ago. Many metal tubing manufactures in this area were having a tough time competing with China dumping tubing into the market here in the good 'ol USA. They asked Bush the lesser to do something about it. W said fuck off, deal with it bitch. Things got so bad that the companies were about to go under (difficulties I guess). In comes Carlyle group (you know, Bush senior and many other repub scum and a couple bin Ladens for good measure) and buys up the companies in 'difficulty'. Lo and behold within 6 month Bush the lesser found he could put a tariff on them dumping tubing on our shores. Fuck those scumbag fucks, only their cronies get what is need.

798 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:10:29am

Let me see if I have the logic straight. As an example. Some divorced guy creates a stalker like website about his ex-wife. His ex-wife in turn checks to see what he's saying about her at said website. So she becomes a stalker herself?

799 iossarian  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:11:06am

re: #798 LGF Lefty Version Martyr Cookies for Sale

Let me see if I have the logic straight. As an example. Some divorced guy creates a stalker like website about his ex-wife. His ex-wife in turn check to see what he's saying about her at said website. So she becomes a stalker herself?

That's a "her" problem, not a "him" problem.

Or something like that.

800 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:11:26am

re: #796 sattv4u2

I did neither

I asked a question

Passive aggressive ridicule.

801 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:13:38am

re: #799 iossarian

That's a "her" problem, not a "him" problem.

Or something like that.

You're under arrest!

For what?

Stalking your stalker husband.

//

802 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:13:44am

re: #791 Obdicut

Back in college, a female friend of mine asked me to stalk her so she could get the feeling of what it was like. But I sucked at it. I'd just call her and ask if she could come to where I was.

Did you ask her to set up her camera on a timer outside her window and mail you the pictures?

803 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:14:00am

re: #794 Lidane

What right wing sexism?

Chuck Winder, Idaho Lawmaker, Suggests Women Use Rape As Excuse For Abortions

Yunno, we could prevent a lot of rape incidents by simply not allowing women and men to associate in public: they whould have to be accompanied by an adult family member at all times. And should keep themselves veiled at all times to prevent temptation. And not allowed to drive cars...

And to prevent fake charges of rape, they would need at least four witnesses...

/

804 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:14:43am

re: #800 wrenchwench

Passive aggressive ridicule.

That's a you problem not a him problem!

This is fun, the UnotMe game. Love to keep playing but I have to go commit capitalism.

805 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:17:30am

re: #690 wrenchwench

God can be cruel.

My mom and my kids were there last summer.

806 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:18:56am

I fucking HATE HATE HATE "comment spam"

807 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:20:06am

re: #805 NJDhockeyfan

My mom and my kids were there last summer.

Cool! Did they get to walk around in it all over? That Crow's Nest looks pretty iffy.

808 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:22:11am

re: #807 wrenchwench

Cool! Did they get to walk around in it all over? That Crow's Nest looks pretty iffy.

Yes. They took a bunch of pictures and the place is amazing. I think the guy who built it is still working on it.

809 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:22:56am

BTW, I decided to look if there's a more or less good quality version of Master and Margarita TV series on YT. Found it uploaded by a deleted user, but seems like all the parts are still there - with Eng. subtitles. Here's the playlist if anyone is interested: [Link: tinyurl.com...]

810 RadicalModerate  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:23:31am

Kudos to Southern Mississippi University for their swift and forceful response to the racist chant that members of their band had during last week's NCAA tournament game with Kansas State.

Southern Miss takes disciplinary action against students for derogatory chant

(CNN) -- Five members of the University of Southern Mississippi pep band have had their scholarships revoked and have been removed from the band after they yelled a derogatory chant at a Puerto Rican player during an NCAA basketball tournament game last week.

The school announced the disciplinary action in a statement Tuesday, saying the five "have been forthcoming, cooperative, contrite and sincerely remorseful."

"They acted rashly and inappropriately, and now see the gravity of their words and actions," Vice President for Student Affairs Joe Paul said. "This is a teachable moment, not only for these students but for our entire student body and those who work with them."

811 Lidane  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:25:43am
The fathers of Florida’s controversial Stand Your Ground law implicated in the death of 14-year-old Trayvon Martin say the man who shot him to death probably should be arrested and doesn’t deserve a self-defense claim of immunity.

Former state Sen. Durell Peaden and current state Rep. Dennis Baxley say the law they passed in 2005 was designed to protect citizens by giving them the right to “meet force with force.”

Both men say they don’t know all the facts of Trayvon's case. But, they say they believe the law would not allow a person like George Zimmerman to pursue and confront a person like Trayvon and then use deadly force. Zimmerman has not been charged.

“They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid,” said Peaden, a Crestview Republican who sponsored the deadly force law in 2005. “He has no protection under my law.”

812 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:26:07am

re: #810 RadicalModerate

Kudos to Southern Mississippi University for their swift and forceful response to the racist chant that members of their band had during last week's NCAA tournament game with Kansas State.

Southern Miss takes disciplinary action against students for derogatory chant

"Teachable moment" here meaning, "this is going to cost you thousands of dollars, chucklehead."

Cheaper than going through life as a racist, though.

813 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:28:44am

re: #811 Lidane

Part of the scandal here is the way that the local police dealt with it, or rather that they did not feel it necessary to deal with it at all...

That is also what needs to be investigated in great depth.

814 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:29:18am

re: #812 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Ignorant racist, since they thought a Puerto Rican would need a green card.

815 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:30:18am

re: #813 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Part of the scandal here is the way that the local police dealt with it, or rather that they did not feel it necessary to deal with it at all...

That is also what needs to be investigated in great depth.

And why that law is still crappy even if its authors think it doesn't apply here.

816 RadicalModerate  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:30:19am

re: #814 Obdicut

Ignorant racist, since they thought a Puerto Rican would need a green card.

Which would make them not much different than the typical Rick Santorum voter.

817 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:30:49am

re: #814 Obdicut

Ignorant racist, since they thought a Puerto Rican would need a green card.

I have a green card.

It's my debit card. It's green.

Oh, you mean that kind of green card.

818 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:31:30am

re: #812 To hold my temper, most of the time.

It is just indicative of how mainstream this sort of attitude has become in recent years. And they will continue to insist it is not racism, it is just "good fun". And that some of their best freinds are minorities, that people who object to it are racists themselves, etc...

819 erik_t  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:31:33am

re: #814 Obdicut

Ignorant racist, since they thought a Puerto Rican would need a green card.

Having yelled a variety of not-nice things in various game situations (although nothing of this foul nature), I think you're ascribing too much research to these band members. More likely they just saw a Hispanic-looking name on the depth chart.

820 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:32:04am

re: #713 sattv4u2

Why would I want to go stalk a place where stalkers are?

Wouldn't that make me ,, well,, a stalker?

It's meta.

821 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:32:34am

re: #819 erik_t

Having yelled a variety of not-nice things in various game situations (although nothing of this foul nature), I think you're ascribing too much research to these band members. More likely they just saw a Hispanic-looking name on the depth chart.

'Ignorant racist' still fits in that case.

822 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:33:25am

re: #732 Obdicut

I looked over there once. It was really boring, and they were openly defending genocide. Haven't felt the need to check back.

This is not funny. Why am I laughing?

823 erik_t  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:35:26am

re: #821 wrenchwench

'Ignorant racist' still fits in that case.

Is there any other kind?

824 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:35:35am

re: #822 SanFranciscoZionist

825 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:36:20am

re: #823 erik_t

Is there any other kind?

Yes, the scarily well-informed racists, who know shitloads of details about the group they're racist about.

826 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:37:31am

re: #825 Obdicut

Yes, the scarily well-informed racists, who know shitloads of details about the group they're racist about.

Yeah, this. I was going to say 'liars', but I'm not sure if that is accurate.

827 erik_t  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:40:10am

re: #825 Obdicut

Yes, the scarily well-informed racists, who know shitloads of details about the group they're racist about.

I could argue that they are still quite ignorant in other ways, but that trends towards a dumb use of everyone's time.

Let's go with this: racism sucks. Don't be racist.

828 Lidane  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:40:16am

re: #826 wrenchwench

Yeah, this. I was going to say 'liars', but I'm not sure if that is accurate.

Liars are worse than ignorant racists.

Ignorant racists can change once they meet people who don't fit the stereotypes they believe. Liars know they're full of shit about the things they say, but they do it anyway.

829 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:45:20am

And educated racists are good at couching their utterances in dog-whistle language that they can distance themselves from if called on. Ignorant racists just blurt it right out.

830 JEA62  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:50:47am

Actually, a lot of Hispanics - like me - are a mix of European Spanish and something else, African-American and/or Native American.

831 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:58:21am

re: #559 Obdicut

What a fucking joke.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

Florida is going to start drug-testing state employees-- but it specifically exempts the legislators and governor.

Pathetic.

Always does. Rules for thee, none for me.

832 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:59:37am

re: #830 JEA62

Actually, a lot of Hispanics - like me - are a mix of European Spanish and something else, African-American and/or Native American.

This is one of the major red herrings in this debate: race vs ethnicity.

But let me repeat what needs to made clear. True White Men are WASPS. The kind we let into our country clubs. Catholic whites are tolerated as long as their work and living habits are sufficiently WASP-like (Rick Santorum is an absolute poster child in this account).

But Hispanics, especially those with mulatto or mestizo blood, are right out. They are the ones who tend the grounds at our country clubs.

Any further questions? Good, now get back to work!!!

/

833 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:00:33am

The more I learn about the French Shooting, the more skeeved out I am.

Could this just be a sadist killing people among minority groups because they are less noticeable? It's either that or a Front Nationale follower.

834 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:02:32am

re: #833 ProGunLiberal

The more I learn about the French Shooting, the more skeeved out I am.

Could this just be a sadist killing people among minority groups because they are less noticeable? It's either that or a Front Nationale follower.

These killings got a whole bunch of attention, so, your first theory is right out.

835 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:04:20am

re: #834 Learned Mother of Zion

I think I may have a hard time wording my idea, but can you see the idea?

836 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:05:42am

re: #835 ProGunLiberal

I think I may have a hard time wording my idea, but can you see the idea?

Did you mean to say: random serial killer targeting minorities because minorities are less likely to be "missed" or something like that? Doesn't even make sense considering how much attention these killings have received.

837 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:07:25am

re: #836 Learned Mother of Zion

Roughly, though I do see your point. How have they not found him yet, I wonder?

838 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:11:09am

re: #836 Learned Mother of Zion

Did you mean to say: random serial killer targeting minorities because minorities are less likely to be "missed" or something like that? Doesn't even make sense considering how much attention these killings have received.

Or that these people are less likely to be protected by the police, and that seems to be the case in France. Odd parallells to the Florida shooting...

839 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:12:13am

re: #838 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Or that these people are less likely to be protected by the police, and that seems to be the case in France. Odd parallells to the Florida shooting...

Bear in mind the first set of victims were French soldiers.

840 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:15:12am

But ethnic Arabs IIRC. And at least initially, there seemed to be a bit of foot-dragging on the part of the French police.

841 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:20:52am

re: #840 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Of the soldiers shot, the three dead are Arab. The one in a coma is from Guadaloupe.

842 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:23:00am

re: #841 ProGunLiberal


It's really too bad that there are multiple competing asshole ideologies that could be responsible for something like this.

843 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:25:07am

re: #842 Obdicut

And just plain sadistic assholery. I still think it is the far-right.

844 Lidane  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:25:59am

Someone hasn't been paying attention to what her husband's been saying:

Karen Santorum: Rick Will Do ‘Nothing’ On Contraception

Karen Santorum on Monday assured women that they have “nothing to fear” from her husband.

“He’s completely supportive of women,” she told CNN’s Piers Morgan. “He’s surrounded by a lot of really strong women. Women have nothing to fear when it comes to contraceptives.”

LOL forever.

845 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:27:13am

Derp!

846 erik_t  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:27:25am

re: #844 Lidane

Someone hasn't been paying attention to what her husband's been saying:

Karen Santorum: Rick Will Do ‘Nothing’ On Contraception

LOL forever.

Oh dear. Karen, your husband is supposed to be the shameless liar of the family. This arrangement doesn't work very well.

847 Lidane  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:29:01am

re: #845 Gus

Weren't the nutters just bleating that Solyndra was bigger than Watergate?

I wish they'd make up their minds.

848 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:29:15am

re: #844 Lidane

Someone hasn't been paying attention to what her husband's been saying:

Karen Santorum: Rick Will Do ‘Nothing’ On Contraception

LOL forever.

You always gotta love how candidates drag their wives in front of the cameras when it comes time to lie to the womenfolk of America.

849 CriticalDragon1177  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:29:39am

Charles Johnson,

Breitbart is dead, but his legacy lives on unfortunately. You're right, it does say something ugly about them, when they confuse race with ethnicity in this way, especially since I think most people know that Hispanic is not a racial category.

850 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:30:27am

re: #847 Lidane

Weren't the nutters just bleating that Solyndra was bigger than Watergate?

I wish they'd make up their minds.

I think so. "Fast and Furious" being another!

Derpity, derp a derp-a do! EIEIO!

851 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:31:03am

re: #844 Lidane

Someone hasn't been paying attention to what her husband's been saying:

Karen Santorum: Rick Will Do ‘Nothing’ On Contraception

LOL forever.

Yes, "do nothing". Like not prevent states who seek to complicate access.

852 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:31:56am

re: #847 Lidane

Weren't the nutters just bleating that Solyndra was bigger than Watergate?

I wish they'd make up their minds.

I think there's a long running list of things that will be "bigger than Watergate," which mean absolutely nothing because the GOP hasn't yet shown the balls to do more than talk about impeaching Obama.

853 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:32:10am

re: #847 Lidane

Weren't the nutters just bleating that Solyndra was bigger than Watergate?

I wish they'd make up their minds.

And and the Deepwater Horizon oil spill was Obama's Katrina...

854 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:32:13am

re: #836 Learned Mother of Zion

Did you mean to say: random serial killer targeting minorities because minorities are less likely to be "missed" or something like that? Doesn't even make sense considering how much attention these killings have received.

Yeah. If he'd been pulling, say, young immigrants off the street as a serial killer, and banking that their disappearance would make less of a splash, that would be one thing, but soldiers and schoolchildren are high-attention targets, regardless of race.

855 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:33:39am

re: #854 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's pretty clear that terror is his aim.

856 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:34:58am

re: #855 Obdicut

I think it's pretty clear that terror is his aim.

They need to find this guy, fast.

857 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:35:24am

Blech. Just happened by Daily Caller. What a sewer that place is. Yeah. Remind me about how "LGF has become a strange place" again.

858 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:37:18am

re: #854 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. If he'd been pulling, say, young immigrants off the street as a serial killer, and banking that their disappearance would make less of a splash, that would be one thing, but soldiers and schoolchildren are high-attention targets, regardless of race.

The point is that he might've figured that the police would be slow and less than thorough in responding. Which seemed to be the case initially.

859 Gus  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:38:54am

Great another Trayvon Martin thread. Gives me a chance to protect teh Constitutional rights for George Zimmerman!!!!!!!

860 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:39:55am

re: #858 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

The point is that he might've figured that the police would be slow and less than thorough in responding. Which seemed to be the case initially.

My suspicion right now is that these are targets chosen for an ideological reason, rather than because he thought police response would be slower.

But hell, we won't know until they have him.

861 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:49:47am

re: #847 Lidane

Weren't the nutters just bleating that Solyndra was bigger than Watergate?

I wish they'd make up their minds.

That smell is the 40 year old butthurt from Watergate.

862 budda10000  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 10:14:39am

This gets at the very heart of the issue of how the feds treat everyone south of the border as though they are one mono-culture which is really inaccurate. Are "hispanics" white? Depends... Hispanic is accurately used for central/south americans of majority spanish decent. Yes mexico has white people:0omfg! But only about ~10% and most of them do not immigrate to the US since they are often sitting fat and happy back at home. That being said our southern neighbor also has a majority population of heavily indigenous people who sure as hell dont identify as white so that begs us to ask. Why are the Feds classifying them as white? Seems like a lot would fit more neatly into the native american category given their close cultural affinity with meso-american indigenous culture. When I look at FBI crime stats its white/black/asain as if now other ethnic groups exist yet when I fill out my federal student aid app. its asks be my ethnic background down to the country of origin for some ethnic groups. And when you go and say that mezitos are considered "White" due to their cultural background then I fire right back and point out that blacks have been even more "white-washed" and replaced with heavy influence from anglo culture at the expense of their indigenous african culture. Now the reason this whole Fed gov. lack of details gets on righty's nerves is that it does skew crime statistics. In particular hate crime stats are driven sky high when latino-on-black hate crimes are lumped in with white-on-black crimes. Need any evidence of this go to any LA public school and bring up the subject of race riots. Turns our the latino(mexican mostly) gangs and and blacks dont like eachother very much.


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