Overnight Video: Symphony of Science - the World of the Dinosaurs
Utterly awe-inspiring
Science • Views: 29,390
423 comments
1 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:06:27pm |
That techo-audio hurts my brain.
Otherwise pretty kewl!
| 3 |
freetoken Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:10:03pm |
re: #2 Obdicut
Somewhere, an eight year old boy is singing.
But not in Tennessee:
Tennessee Bill to Push Creationism in Schools
Like something out of a George A. Romero movie, Tennessee lawmakers have revived a scary bill that would open the door to promotion of creationism in public schools.
HB 368 passed the Tennessee House of Representatives in 2011, but went nowhere after that. This year Sen. Bo Watson (R-Hixson) brought it back, albeit with some minor changes.
Watson said the legislation (SB 893 in the Senate) would give guidelines to teachers as they try to answer student questions about evolution, global warming and other subjects, according to the Knoxville News Sentinel. He also said the bill would specify that teachers cannot be punished for answering questions about creationism.
[…]
| 4 |
bratwurst Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:10:25pm |
Do you suppose there is anyone in the world who is sincerely interested in what Piers Morgan thinks about the Illinois primary?
| 5 |
dragonath Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:12:35pm |
| 6 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:12:57pm |
re: #4 bratwurst
Do you suppose there is anyone in the world who is sincerely interested in what Piers Morgan thinks about the Illinois primary?
WHO(m) is Piers Morgan?
| 7 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:13:36pm |
| 8 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:15:45pm |
For the gamers among us— strong rumors of an Elder Scrolls MMO.
| 9 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:16:20pm |
re: #8 Obdicut
For the gamers among us— strong rumors of an Elder Scrolls MMO.
First question: Will it be better than World of Warcraft? If not, then it’s a waste of money.
| 10 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:18:13pm |
I’m still waiting for the discovery of a fossil with a fire pit and flint tools, from 70,000,000 years ago. Why not?
| 11 |
bratwurst Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:18:18pm |
re: #6 ggt
WHO(m) is Piers Morgan?
He’s the former British tabloid editor/talent show judge/all around blowhard who took over Larry King’s time slot on CNN.
| 12 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:18:21pm |
re: #9 Targetpractice
First question: Will it be better than World of Warcraft? If not, then it’s a waste of money.
Well, apparently World of Warcraft is no longer as good as World of Warcraft.
[Link: www.pcworld.com…]
| 13 |
Lidane Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:23:29pm |
re: #4 bratwurst
Do you suppose there is anyone in the world who is sincerely interested in what Piers Morgan thinks about the Illinois primary?
Yes. Piers Morgan is interested. Everyone else? Not so much.
| 14 |
erik_t Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:23:31pm |
re: #12 Obdicut
Well, apparently World of Warcraft is no longer as good as World of Warcraft.
[Link: www.pcworld.com…]
They were eaten by a grue.
| 15 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:23:51pm |
re: #2 Obdicut
Somewhere, an eight year old boy is singing.
Well, it stirs the part of me that still pays attention to dinosaurs, a part aided by the special exhibits the Field Museum has had at times.
| 16 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:24:37pm |
re: #12 Obdicut
Well, apparently World of Warcraft is no longer as good as World of Warcraft.
[Link: www.pcworld.com…]
They’ve also got a new expansion coming out, so look for subscriptions to notch back up again. And even without them, there’s SWTOR, which is currently the second gorilla in the room.
I mean best of luck to Bethesda, but I’m not holding my breath that an Elder Scrolls MMO won’t just get labeled another “WoW clone” and dumped on the heap. Personally think the money and resources would be better spent another first person game, like say Fallout 4.
| 17 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:25:42pm |
Anyone remember seeing this when it aired in 1995?
Not a slut or a prostitute, but a woman afraid for her life.
| 18 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:26:31pm |
| 19 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:28:10pm |
re: #9 Targetpractice
First question: Will it be better than World of Warcraft? If not, then it’s a waste of money.
I’m enjoying SW:OTR currently.
| 20 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:28:28pm |
re: #11 bratwurst
He’s the former British tabloid editor/talent show judge/all around blowhard who took over Larry King’s time slot on CNN.
He was first involved, and now I guess immune to the Murdoch wire tapping deal. what ev. I’d never watch him. If I want salacious I go to TMZ. Quick, to the point and scrollable.
| 21 |
andres Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:32:30pm |
Sorry to go OT so soon… but is the LGF Pages search borken? I tried searching for Santorum and couldn’t find anything. (Basically, I was looking if this had been posted already.)
| 22 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:34:06pm |
re: #17 ggt
Anyone remember seeing this when it aired in 1995?
Not a slut or a prostitute, but a woman afraid for her life.
omg. so important to remember. I just read all the wiki.
| 23 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:34:23pm |
re: #18 Obdicut
Here’s a good interview with Hislop regarding him.
[Embedded content]
Who TF is Hislop?
Maybe I’m the one living under the rock —Popular Media Rock anyway.
| 24 |
abolitionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:35:16pm |
re: #10 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
I’m still waiting for the discovery of a fossil with a fire pit and flint tools, from 70,000,000 years ago. Why not?
Because, to the best of our knowledge, no creatures on earth had mastered firepits maintenance at that time?
| 25 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:35:35pm |
re: #22 Oh geeze.
omg. so important to remember. I just read all the wiki.
Yes, please post on the POV site and ask them to rebroadcast. It is so important.
Have you ever heard of Becky Bell? I saw an interview with her parents a long time ago.
| 26 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:35:39pm |
| 27 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:35:57pm |
re: #24 abolitionist
Because, to the best of our knowledge, no creatures on earth had mastered firepits maintenance at that time?
Zeus hadn’t given them fire yet?
Oh wait, I got that wrong didn’t it.
It was Prometheus.??
| 28 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:36:14pm |
re: #23 ggt
Who TF is Hislop?
Maybe I’m the one living under the rock —Popular Media Rock anyway.
No, Hislop is only famous in Britain. He’s the editor of Private Eye and the most sued man in Britain, which he gets a lot of enjoyment out of. Britain has much stricter libel laws than we do.
| 29 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:36:56pm |
re: #28 Obdicut
No, Hislop is only famous in Britain. He’s the editor of Private Eye and the most sued man in Britain, which he gets a lot of enjoyment out of. Britain has much stricter libel laws than we do.
Yeah, they don’t have to prove intent or actual lying or something really, really stupid.
| 30 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:37:03pm |
A doctor speaks on transvaginal ultrasounds
It comes down to this: When the community has failed a patient by voting an ideologue into office…When the ideologue has failed the patient by writing legislation in his own interest instead of in the patient’s…When the legislative system has failed the patient by allowing the legislation to be considered… When the government has failed the patient by allowing something like this to be signed into law… We as physicians cannot and must not fail our patients by ducking our heads and meekly doing as we’re told.
Because we are their last line of defense.
hope this spreads
| 31 |
BeenHereAwhile Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:37:45pm |
re: #2 Obdicut
Somewhere, an eight year old boy is singing.
Singing, and then saying to themself, “wait a minute, yea!”
Again singing, “I like dinosaurs.”
| 32 |
Lidane Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:38:21pm |
The Romney Plan: 1. Pander 2. Lie 3. Lie 4. Flip 5. Flop 6. Pander 7. Lose election. 8. Repeat in 4 years.
— Wil Wheaton (@wilw) March 21, 2012
And in response to the comments he got for it:
“DERP DERP THAT’S OBAMA LOL YOU LIBRUL DERP SOCIALIST KENYA CORRUPT DERP!” in 5… 4… 3… 2…
— Wil Wheaton (@wilw) March 21, 2012
| 33 |
Stanghazi Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:38:44pm |
re: #25 ggt
Yes, please post on the POV site and ask them to rebroadcast. It is so important.
Have you ever heard of Becky Bell? I saw an interview with her parents a long time ago.
1988, fucking 1988.
We will take to the streets. Dare to underestimate.
| 34 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:39:22pm |
re: #30 windupbird is in the gravity well
A doctor speaks on transvaginal ultrasounds
hope this spreads
John Scalzi is one of my favorite Sci-Fi writers!
Assuming this the same John Scalzi.
| 35 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:41:05pm |
re: #34 ggt
John Scalzi is one of my favorite Sci-Fi writers!
Assuming this the same John Scalzi.
He has a
Mallet of Loving Correction
I wonder if a Cluebat and a Mallet of Loving Correction got together …
| 36 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:42:20pm |
re: #33 Oh geeze.
1988, fucking 1988.
We will take to the streets. Dare to underestimate.
post on your fb, email your friends.
The young people today weren’t even born in 1988 —and some of them are voting.
They believe what they hear from the Whackos.
| 37 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:42:59pm |
| 38 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:43:54pm |
re: #35 ggt
Geez, I would love to have a Malllet of Loving Correction for everyday use.
| 39 |
Gus Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:44:49pm |
re: #32 Lidane
[Embedded content]
Kenya. Right. I look forward to Thursday. There’s going to be a lot dropped jaws.
| 40 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:46:49pm |
re: #34 ggt
John Scalzi is one of my favorite Sci-Fi writers!
Assuming this the same John Scalzi.
yep, same guy ^_^
| 41 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:47:43pm |
re: #39 Gus
Kenya. Right. I look forward to Thursday. There’s going to be a lot dropped jaws.
Eh? Remind me what’s happening Thursday?
| 42 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:47:46pm |
re: #38 prairiefire
Geez, I would love to have a Malllet of Loving Correction for everyday use.
I have one, I call it “THE STARE’.
I think you have to be a parent to use it properly.
| 43 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:48:13pm |
re: #33 Oh geeze.
1988, fucking 1988.
We will take to the streets. Dare to underestimate.
NPR covered the contraception issue on Talk Of The Nation on Monday. EVERY lady who called in was PISSED OFF. Incensed, to borrow a popular term. This nonsense will not stand.
| 44 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:48:32pm |
re: #30 windupbird is in the gravity well
A doctor speaks on transvaginal ultrasounds
hope this spreads
on my fb
as is
Gerri Santoro
&
Becky Bell
| 45 |
Lidane Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:48:34pm |
re: #39 Gus
Kenya. Right. I look forward to Thursday. There’s going to be a lot dropped jaws.
Thursday? What’s happening then? I’ve been out of the loop because I got my final project and team for grad school today, so that’s been a bit of a focus.
| 46 |
Gus Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:48:43pm |
re: #41 Targetpractice
Eh? Remind me what’s happening Thursday?
Keystone XL southern route fast track announcement by the president. No word on details yet.
| 47 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:49:31pm |
re: #43 prairiefire
NPR covered the contraception issue on Talk Of The Nation on Monday. EVERY lady who called in was PISSED OFF. Incensed, to borrow a popular term. This nonsense will not stand.
Yeah, but they are singing to the choir.
Fox News Brainwashed Whackos (FNBW) do not listen to NPR.
It is communist —doncha’ know.
/gah
| 48 |
Gus Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:49:33pm |
President Obama to fast track southern half of Keystone XL Pipeline - will make announcement Thursday: on.cnn.com/GEOQUK— CNN (@CNN) March 20, 2012
| 50 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:50:19pm |
re: #47 ggt
Yeah, but they are singing to the choir.
Fox News Brainwashed Whackos (FNBW) do not listen to NPR.
It is communist —doncha’ know.
/gah
They are going to be experiencing major cognitive dissonance in November.
nah, they’ll just blame the GOP for not undeading Ronald Reagan.
| 51 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:50:35pm |
re: #46 Gus
Keystone XL southern route fast track announcement by the president. No word on details yet.
Should be interesting to see how the Market responds to that. The southern portion’s big selling point is that it’s supposed to clear up a log jam of oil out in the Midwest.
| 52 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:51:00pm |
re: #47 ggt
Yeah, but they are singing to the choir.
Fox News Brainwashed Whackos (FNBW) do not listen to NPR.
It is communist —doncha’ know.
/gah
They will listen to the Independents, and weep in their cocktails, or mocktails, after November.
| 53 |
Obdicut Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:51:40pm |
re: #51 Targetpractice
Should be interesting to see how the Market responds to that. The southern portion’s big selling point is that it’s supposed to clear up a log jam of oil out in the Midwest.
a big logjam of oil that eventually flows out of the US, thus nicely making one of Obama’s chief points for him, really.
| 54 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:55:20pm |
I’ve tried to explain over and over to my FNBW friends —
“listen, you either pay for contraception or you pay more in taxes.”
How hard is it?
| 55 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:55:30pm |
re: #53 Obdicut
a big logjam of oil that eventually flows out of the US, thus nicely making one of Obama’s chief points for him, really.
Indeed, but likely not before year’s end. No, I’m curious to see if the speculators think that ending that log jam will affect the price of oil. If not, then it does demonstrate something for Obama, namely that no amount of promising to increase the amount of oil on the world market will bring down gas prices.
| 56 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:56:46pm |
re: #54 ggt
I’ve tried to explain over and over to my FNBW friends —
“listen, you either pay for contraception or you pay more in taxes.”
How hard is it?
“either way, you pay —you can pay more or you can pay less, but either way you pay.”
You’d think the simple economics would be understandable, since they seem to be so interested in economics.
fucking drones
| 57 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:56:50pm |
re: #54 ggt
I’ve tried to explain over and over to my FNBW friends —
“listen, you either pay for contraception or you pay more in taxes.”
How hard is it?
That’s because they think there’s a third option: No contraception and no welfare. If the poor don’t want kids, either practice abstinence or give up another “luxury” to afford condoms.
| 58 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 9:57:58pm |
re: #57 Targetpractice
That’s because they think there’s a third option: No contraception and no welfare. If the poor don’t want kids, either practice abstinence or give up another “luxury” to afford condoms.
They don’t even think that far.
“Other people” is an abstract.
It’s not even “those people” anymore, its “other people.”
| 59 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:01:34pm |
I think I’ll keep reposting this this picture on my fb until the election.
Visuals seem to work best.
| 61 |
engineer cat Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:05:01pm |
Robotic jellyfish may never run out of energy
A robot built to look and swim like an inconspicuous jellyfish may keep going and going and going thanks to an infinite source of fuel — its surroundings.
The power comes from heat-producing chemical reactions between oxygen and hydrogen with platinum coated on the surface of the bio-inspired robot, known as RoboJelly.
The heat is transferred to the artificial muscles in the robot, causing them to contract just as real muscle does in a jellyfish, the Virginia Tech team behind RoboJelly explains in a paper published Wednesday in the journal Smart Materials.
The muscles are little wires called shape memory alloy composites that are built on the inside of the jellyfish-like robot frame.
| 64 |
engineer cat Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:10:10pm |
they drive by night, 1940
ida lupino as the bad bad bad girl
| 66 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:11:19pm |
I’m going to be blunt here.
I can’t find the mother-fucking Protectron for Big Trouble in Big Town quest for Fallout 3. I be pissed.
| 67 |
FemNaziBitch Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:15:27pm |
I’m off to the land behind my eyelids.
Have a great evening/morning all!
| 68 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:16:09pm |
re: #66 ProGunLiberal
I’m going to be blunt here.
I can’t find the mother-fucking Protectron for Big Trouble in Big Town quest for Fallout 3. I be pissed.
Bug in quest, should have been patched, but not always.
| 69 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:16:47pm |
Raid going on near Toulouse.
[Link: edition.cnn.com…]
There’s a guy inside, who may be the perp in the shootings.
| 70 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:17:26pm |
“According to the interior minister, the suspect is a French national of Algerian origin who spent considerable time in Afghanistan and Pakistan.”
Well, if that’s accurate, I sure can’t pick ‘em.
| 71 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:17:39pm |
re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist
Raid going on near Toulouse.
[Link: edition.cnn.com…]There’s a guy inside, who may be the perp in the shootings.
I hope they bust his ass.
| 72 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:18:27pm |
| 73 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:18:32pm |
| 74 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:19:01pm |
re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist
“According to the interior minister, the suspect is a French national of Algerian origin who spent considerable time in Afghanistan and Pakistan.”
Well, if that’s accurate, I sure can’t pick ‘em.
Where you thinking a xenophobic nationalist?
| 76 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:20:40pm |
re: #74 prairiefire
Where you thinking a xenophobic nationalist?
Yeah. I thought Breivik was jihadis, and I thought this was some neo-Nazi asshole.
My killerdar is broken.
| 77 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:23:18pm |
re: #74 prairiefire
Wow, was I off.
Wait, Algerian? That actually makes a modicum of sense. Algeria has outgassed terrorists across the Mediterranean, and has destabilized most of North Africa, both by failing to curb terror, and by deliberate actions (See Morocco and Libya).
| 78 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:26:08pm |
re: #77 ProGunLiberal
Also, this likely means he was a Salafi.
| 79 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:27:11pm |
Here we go with the “Millions and millions of years” liberal propaganda again.
It is obvious to any devout evangelical that SATAN planted these “fossils” to try to fool us into disbelieving the holy interpretations of history of Bishop Usher that say that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old!
///Fuck evidence and Science! We have a sixteenth century Bishop’s opinion that says what we want to hear! Screw you evilution believing libtards! Ha!
| 80 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:27:35pm |
I thought it was good the presidential campaign was suspended and the candidates went to Toulouse.[Link: www.euronews.com…]
| 83 |
Gus Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:30:53pm |
A 24-year-old man reportedly inside house in #Toulouse where police swoop in pre-dawn raid following school shooting bbc.in/GCAAlr— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) March 21, 2012
| 84 |
Shvaughn Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:31:01pm |
re: #73 ProGunLiberal
I’m going to say this.
I hope they kill the fucking monster.
Can you just stop with all this talk about killing people?
| 85 |
prairiefire Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:33:12pm |
| 86 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:33:20pm |
TOULOUSE, France (AP) - French police officers are raiding a
house in the southern city of Toulouse in the search for a gunman
suspected of killing three Jewish schoolchildren, a rabbi and three
paratroopers in three separate attacks.
The house is surrounded by police vans and helmeted officers.
Interior Minister Claude Gueant has arrived at the scene. Details
of what’s happening inside are unclear.
Authorities have been conducting a massive manhunt across a
swath of southern France after Monday’s shootings at a Jewish
school in Toulouse, and two attacks on paratroopers in Toulouse and
a nearby city last week. The same weapon was used in all three
attacks.
| 87 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:38:13pm |
re: #79 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
From apes, to apes. You can’t stop the Evolution Revolution.
| 88 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:39:09pm |
re: #84 Shvaughn
For killing kids in the way I have heard in the past 2 days, I want the Death Penalty. Since France doesn’t have it, well I have to hope for other circumstances.
| 89 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:39:14pm |
Suspect has ‘claimed affiliation to al-Qaeda’.
Of course, I could claim to be affiliated with Sendero Luminoso, and could any of you really say that I wasn’t?
| 90 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:40:19pm |
re: #88 ProGunLiberal
For killing kids in the way I have heard in the past 2 days, I want the Death Penalty. Since France doesn’t have it, well I have to hope for other circumstances.
It may yet happen, if he goes for suicide by cop, or other means.
| 91 |
Shvaughn Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:41:11pm |
re: #88 ProGunLiberal
For killing kids in the way I have heard in the past 2 days, I want the Death Penalty. Since France doesn’t have it, well I have to hope for other circumstances.
As prairiefire wrote, “Grow up, PGL.”
(Also, you’re always talking about death for anyone who you identify as Salafi. This isn’t just a one-off, you keep doing it and people keep asking you to stop.)
| 92 |
Shvaughn Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:42:59pm |
re: #88 ProGunLiberal
Since France doesn’t have it, well I have to hope for other circumstances.
PS: You sound like you’re talking about extralegal summary execution here. You can’t really support both a fair “death penalty” and the idea of killing bad guys without trial. And presumably you want a fairly enacted death penalty.
| 93 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:45:59pm |
I want to stay up until this is over, but I can’t. Wrecked.
Good night, all.
| 94 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:49:38pm |
re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist
Sleep tight!
| 95 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:50:33pm |
| 96 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:54:54pm |
re: #95 Kragar
Don’t encourage them, next will be Idaho or Wisconsin enacting a 6480 hour (nine month) waiting time for a procedure…
///
| 97 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:56:03pm |
re: #91 Shvaughn
It pisses me off that one of own own does this, and I want him punished.
As for how I want Salafis dealt with, again I get my pointers from Mahmud II and Mehmet Ali Pasha.
| 98 |
Targetpractice Tue, Mar 20, 2012 10:56:26pm |
re: #95 Kragar
Remember folks: Waiting periods on guns are an unconstitutional infringement on our rights, but waiting periods on abortions are in no way an infringement on women’s rights, because the clump of cells inside them has rights too!
///
| 99 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:03:05pm |
The Right has paid lip service to the Evangelical social issues for about thirty years, I guess they are finally being made to pony up at least some of what they have promised now that Evangelicals are pretty much their entire voting bloc.
| 100 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:10:39pm |
re: #99 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
Back during “The Great Creationism v. Evolution: Battle for the Apocalypse” that went on here, the common refrain of the fundie socon was “Try and win an election without us!”
I think the trending response to that is “Fine. Try and win an election all by yourselves, nutters.”
| 101 |
Shvaughn Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:11:46pm |
re: #97 ProGunLiberal
It pisses me off that one of own own does this, and I want him punished.
What’s more important to you, punishment or justice?
| 102 |
ProBosniaLiberal Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:16:48pm |
re: #101 Shvaughn
Justice. However, my first impulse in these cases is often emotional.
| 103 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:21:56pm |
| 104 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:44:33pm |
Gingrich Worries He’ll Commit ‘A Santorum’
Does he mean become the evangelical’s best buddy, because I don’t see that happening?
| 105 |
Shvaughn Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:47:17pm |
re: #102 ProGunLiberal
Justice. However, my first impulse in these cases is often emotional.
You might want to restrain your first impulses when they start calling for death.
| 107 |
engineer cat Tue, Mar 20, 2012 11:58:51pm |
| 108 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:20:45am |
re: #56 ggt
“either way, you pay —you can pay more or you can pay less, but either way you pay.”
You’d think the simple economics would be understandable, since they seem to be so interested in economics.
fucking drones
does not work: this is a question of morality and ideology, which to them has no price.
| 109 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:26:58am |
re: #99 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
The Right has paid lip service to the Evangelical social issues for about thirty years, I guess they are finally being made to pony up at least some of what they have promised now that Evangelicals are pretty much their entire voting bloc.
You nailed it. Namely, since being cast aside by Reagan (as soon as Nancy’s house astrologer advised her the time was propitious) these people have been working to ensure that it would not happen again and that they would elect candidates and put people in place in high offices of government who would put their priorities above everything else.
| 110 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:28:46am |
I have always had a crush on the dinosaur lady who does the refrain “the more we learn,” etc, Alice Roberts, from other BBC docs. One of my favorite hot British TV babes.
| 111 |
freetoken Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:43:02am |
re: #110 Second Amendment Renegation
That video out-take is from a recent series on the history of dinosaur exploration/study. It seems to have been a popular subject of late, given the documentaries on the subject.
Alice Roberts also had a recent three part series looking at our bodies and what they tell us about evolution:
| 113 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:53:57am |
re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist
“According to the interior minister, the suspect is a French national of Algerian origin who spent considerable time in Afghanistan and Pakistan.”
Well, if that’s accurate, I sure can’t pick ‘em.
It’s gonna be bad…
| 114 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 12:55:41am |
[Link: www.theaustralian.com.au…]
“This person has made trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in the past … and says he belongs to al Qaeda and says he wanted to avenge Palestinian children and to attack the French army,” Gueant said.
| 115 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:05:04am |
This is why we do not speculate until the facts are in.
| 116 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:10:00am |
Pam rails against Foxman:
Last week the Soviet-style, Soviet born director of the ADL since 1965, Abe Foxman, compared me to the virulent Jew hater Louis Farrakhan in the pages of the, drumroll please, The Jewish Week. This is a new low for the increasingly anti-zionist rag and points to the low state of the Jewish diaspora. Imagine, proud zionists are defamed and smeared by traitors in our own newspapers. Foxman is a pox on our house.
I do wonder why she chose to emphasize “Soviet born”.
| 117 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:16:48am |
re: #116 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Foxman’s piece is worth reading too, relevant to some discussions here: [Link: www.thejewishweek.com…]
| 118 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:20:59am |
re: #116 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Pam rails against Foxman:
I do wonder why she chose to emphasize “Soviet born”.
Echoes of the Protocols?
It’s such a bizarre thing to say.
| 124 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:25:42am |
I’m just getting started…
Going to be busy.
I guess that is why they call it work…
No one says, ‘Honey, I’m off to fun..!’
| 125 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:25:56am |
re: #120 researchok
Pam=bizarre
Yeah, I was kinda shocked when her initial article about Toulouse wasn’t a spittle-flecked rant. Of course, with this mornings developments, that is sure to change.
| 126 |
freetoken Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:26:09am |
| 127 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:26:46am |
re: #124 researchok
Yeah, you seem to get started at an ungodly hour every day. I wouldn’t survive a week. I’m NOT a morning person.
| 128 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:27:21am |
re: #125 CuriousLurker
Yeah, I was kinda shocked when her initial article about Toulouse wasn’t a spittle-flecked rant. Of course, with this mornings developments, that is sure to change.
I have to tell you, I don’t read or care about her.
She’s a dysfunctional non entity in my book.
A provocateur- and not a very good one at that.
| 129 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:28:29am |
| 130 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:28:33am |
re: #128 researchok
I usually try to ignore her, but sometimes…
| 131 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:28:36am |
re: #126 freetoken
She’s married (with children).
I know.
And I know when she wakes up and goes to bed every day and when she leaves the house and where she goes and when she comes back and what the family has had for dinner the previous week from sorting through her trash bins.
I have been stalking her for years.
/
| 132 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:30:18am |
re: #130 CuriousLurker
I refuse to process her.
She’s like a Pakistani tribal Madrassa principal as far as I am concerned.
Self serving whack job.
If she were flat chested, no one would ever stop by.
| 133 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:31:41am |
| 134 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:32:58am |
re: #133 CuriousLurker
Well, she is.
She wants to ‘educate’ her following to hate- really, really hate.
| 135 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:34:42am |
re: #134 researchok
And, boy, do they ever. I can’t imagine how screwed up you have to be to go and feed at that poisonous trough every day.
| 136 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:37:22am |
re: #134 researchok
Well, I guess I’m going to try to catch a couple of hours of sleep before the workday starts. Hope you have a good one. ;)
| 137 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:37:52am |
re: #135 CuriousLurker
Major, major dysfunction.
She obsesses over people/ideas she doesn’t like.
Seriously- really obsesses. wants to ‘punish’ them.
She and others like her are real job security for the clinical types. Problem is, they think they are perfectly alright. They will defend their beliefs before ever admitting they are wrong. Criticize their ideas and it’s personal, etc.
I could on.
| 138 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:38:07am |
re: #135 CuriousLurker
And, boy, do they ever. I can’t imagine how screwed up you have to be to go and feed at that poisonous trough every day.
nothing compared with what it takes to fill it up every day…
| 139 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:38:44am |
| 140 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:39:57am |
re: #138 Second Amendment Renegation
Sergey, do not underestimate psychological dysfunction.
Imagine living your entire life as a psychotic episode.
| 141 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:41:43am |
That’s why I don’t care about her. I never give her a second thought.
No point to it.
| 143 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:46:42am |
re: #142 researchok
Well, that just killed the thread…
Nothing like a little Pam Geller first thing in the AM to brighten your day. //
I’m kinda brain dead at this point. Need to get some sleep.
| 145 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:48:34am |
re: #142 researchok
Well, that just killed the thread…
Now imagine waking up next to her. LOL
Okay, that was mean. *hands researchok a bottle of brain bleach*
| 146 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:49:25am |
| 147 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:49:53am |
re: #145 CuriousLurker
Now imagine waking up next to her. LOL
Okay, that was mean. *hands researchok a bottle of brain bleach*
LOLOL
That’s like waking up and hearing Fran Dreschers voice (I’m sure’s lovely, but that voice…)
Run!
| 148 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:50:36am |
| 149 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:51:00am |
re: #147 researchok
Oh, gosh, yeah! *grimace*
| 150 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:51:33am |
re: #140 researchok
Sergey, do not underestimate psychological dysfunction.
Imagine living your entire life as a psychotic episode.
It’s not me. It’s ralphieboy.
| 152 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:52:08am |
re: #148 researchok
There are cruelty laws.
Save the puppies!
A baby piranha would probably be more appropriate.
| 153 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:52:27am |
There are some things pretty can’t fix…
Ever.
| 154 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:53:45am |
| 155 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:54:40am |
LOL—Okay, I’m out. Have a great day, everyone.
| 156 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 1:55:08am |
| 157 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 2:28:14am |
I guess Marine LePen has a real chance now.
| 158 |
researchok Wed, Mar 21, 2012 2:30:07am |
re: #157 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Better than last week, for sure.
| 159 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 2:59:02am |
everybody still out bleaching their brains?
| 160 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 3:36:44am |
re: #157 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
I guess Marine LePen has a real chance now.
I guess it’d be too much for those on the xenophobic wing in France to consider that it was perfectly plausible for someone inspired by them to have done these killings, and think about how their ideologies are steeped in the same hate and fear as al-queda’s.
| 161 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 3:42:36am |
Regardless, the Right is gonna hava a field day with this news. And it is warning to everyone not to speculate about anything until some facts are in.
…
Of course, none of this might’ve happened if France had a Second Amendment and a “stand your ground” law.
/
| 162 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 3:43:48am |
re: #115 Second Amendment Renegation
This is why we do not speculate until the facts are in.
re: #161 Second Amendment Renegation
Regardless, the Right is gonna hava a field day with this news. And it is warning to everyone not to speculate about anything until some facts are in.
…
Of course, none of this might’ve happened if France had a Second Amendment and a “stand your ground” law.
/
We speculate all the time and it’s completely normal.
What you probably meant is that these speculations should not turn into assumptions.
| 163 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 3:45:23am |
re: #161 Second Amendment Renegation
Hell, it’s still speculation that this is the right guy, though obviously being heavily armed and shooting police is a pretty good indication.
| 164 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 3:46:25am |
re: #163 Obdicut
Hell, it’s still speculation that this is the right guy, though obviously being heavily armed and shooting police is a pretty good indication.
Yeah, we don’t speculate when the facts are in, not until the facts are in.
| 165 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 4:43:01am |
Sometimes one can only shake one’s head.
| 166 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Mar 21, 2012 4:58:57am |
re: #3 freetoken
But not in Tennessee:
Wonder if no punishment will be meted out if the teacher answers the creationism question with the statement “creationism is total crap!”?
| 167 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:05:33am |
re: #166 RayFerd
Wonder if no punishment will be meted out if the teacher answers the creationism question with the statement “creationism is total crap!”?
The best response would be “Creationism has no place in a science classroom, try comparative religion down the hall.”
| 168 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:08:48am |
re: #167 Second Amendment Renegation
The best response would be “Creationism has no place in a science classroom, try comparative religion down the hall.”
Creationism has come to denote not a mere idea of creation, but a set of arguments which pervert science and facts in order to fit them into a scriptural Procrustean bed. Since these arguments are false, they have no place not only in science class, but in any class (except maybe as fodder for a critical thinking class).
| 169 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:11:14am |
re: #168 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
unfortunately, america are assballs
| 170 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:11:29am |
| 171 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:12:23am |
re: #169 windupbird is in the gravity well
unfortunately, america are assballs
Are assballs good or bad? //
| 172 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:14:02am |
re: #170 Learned Mother of Zion
I really hope:
It’s the right guy.
He was acting alone.
They get him alive.
| 174 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:14:50am |
re: #172 Obdicut
I really hope:
It’s the right guy.
He was acting alone.
They get him alive.
If he was acting alone it’s not so important if they get him alive ;)
| 175 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:16:15am |
re: #174 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
If he was acting alone it’s not so important if they get him alive ;)
Well, it is to really be sure he was acting alone. But yeah.
I’m still worried about more attacks.
| 176 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:16:41am |
on second thought, too soon
| 177 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:16:47am |
re: #172 Obdicut
I really hope:
It’s the right guy.
He was acting alone.
They get him alive.
It turns out he is a Muslim, claims to belong to Al Qaeda, but might just be some random nut.
| 178 |
Flounder Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:20:16am |
New clue gives hope to solving Earhart mystery
Read more: [Link: poststar.com…]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 179 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:20:54am |
re: #168 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Creationism has come to denote not a mere idea of creation, but a set of arguments which pervert science and facts in order to fit them into a scriptural Procrustean bed. Since these arguments are false, they have no place not only in science class, but in any class (except maybe as fodder for a critical thinking class).
Science is about objective facts. The existence or non-existence of a Divine Being is beyond science, which is why it does not belong there.
And since religious instruction is also not really part of the public school curriculum, it really does not belong in a school at all. The only mention of religion in a public school should be in pointing out its role in the shaping of US & world history.
And even that is a tetchy subject that varies in interpretation from denomination to denomination.
| 180 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:22:35am |
re: #171 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Are assballs good or bad? //
none of these definitions seem very positive…
| 181 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:26:05am |
re: #177 Learned Mother of Zion
Well, I’d say there’s a strong likelihood it’s him, but there is still the possibility that this guy is a member of a cell that planned it or something, and not the actual shooter— and there’s a remote possibility this guy is ‘just’ an unrelated terrorist conspirator. Very remote, since I’ve seen reports that claim the police say the gun he tossed out is the right one, but I’m dubious about the news reporters getting that right, it might just be the same caliber.
| 182 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:27:04am |
re: #181 Obdicut
Well, I’d say there’s a strong likelihood it’s him, but there is still the possibility that this guy is a member of a cell that planned it or something, and not the actual shooter— and there’s a remote possibility this guy is ‘just’ an unrelated terrorist conspirator. Very remote, since I’ve seen reports that claim the police say the gun he tossed out is the right one, but I’m dubious about the news reporters getting that right, it might just be the same caliber.
It’s a breaking story. They were reporting that the suspect was about to surrender, now he has changed his mind.
| 183 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:27:53am |
re: #182 Learned Mother of Zion
It’s a breaking story. They were reporting that the suspect was about to surrender, now he has changed his mind.
Yeah. I’m mainly very tense about whether he was in fact acting alone, because if not, this might not be over.
| 184 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:33:08am |
re: #183 Obdicut
Yeah. I’m mainly very tense about whether he was in fact acting alone, because if not, this might not be over.
Of course he was not acting alone: he has the entire Muslim world backing him up - that is what is written in their terrorist handbook the Koran!
| 185 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:36:26am |
From a CBS story:
Geuant confirmed that the brother of the suspect cornered in the house in Toulouse was arrested earlier Wednesday morning or late on Tuesday night. According to Gueant, he is also suspected of murder, raising the possibility that the brothers were both directly involved in the recent shootings. The brother’s girlfriend was also reportedly arrested.
| 186 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:37:36am |
It sounds like someone gave them up, too. I wonder who?
| 187 |
Flounder Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:42:28am |
We need Inspector Clouseau on the job.
You have a phone message
Does your dog bite?
Oh my, I crack me up.
| 188 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:51:21am |
re: #187 Tommy’s cone of shame
We need Inspector Clouseau on the job.
You have a phone message
Does your dog bite?
Oh my, I crack me up.
I need a rhüm
| 189 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:06:51am |
re: #184 Second Amendment Renegation
I was actually hoping the Nazi connection was true. Now we have to again debate whether it is a religion or an interpretation of a religion that is at fault. Pointless IMHO, since all religions are interpretations of one flavor or another.
| 190 |
Flounder Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:11:31am |
Nissan brings back Datsun, which brand is next?
Read more: [Link: www.timesunion.com…]
| 191 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:15:46am |
re: #179 Second Amendment Renegation
Science is about objective facts. The existence or non-existence of a Divine Being is beyond science, which is why it does not belong there.
I see the word “beyond” and similar used often in this context. The implied meaning is often “above” or “greater”, and designed to remove science (and logic) from addressing anything of the sort.
The existence, or not, of divine being(s) is most certainly within the sphere of logic and reason, which in turn are the fundamentals of science, the latter being a structure for applying the former.
| 192 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:18:33am |
re: #191 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Well, anytime someone says “I believe in something that’s outside of physical reality, can never be detected, but can affect it” they’re saying something innately untestable, as long as they’re not claiming the conditions under which it will affect physical reality are predictable.
| 193 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:19:30am |
re: #189 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
I was actually hoping the Nazi connection was true. Now we have to again debate whether it is a religion or an interpretation of a religion that is at fault. Pointless IMHO, since all religions are interpretations of one flavor or another.
It means that the right wing is gonna have a field day with this.
Remember the talking points formula:
right-wing violence = crazed, demented outsider
OWS/Islamist violence = part and parcel of the movement/religion
| 194 |
The Force Ghost of a Flea Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:21:12am |
re: #97 ProGunLiberal
It pisses me off that one of own own does this, and I want him punished.
As for how I want Salafis dealt with, again I get my pointers from Mahmud II and Mehmet Ali Pasha.
And it worked so well they were never heard from again…
oh wait.
Yeah. Three things:
1. There is no magic equation whereby an idea can be defeated if you just hurt the right/enough people.
2. Making your opponents dead does not pierce their ideology. There are, in fact, many ideologies fortified by the corpses of believers.
3. Some day you’re going to find out that often as not formal ideologies is just a costume for dressing up less abstract drives such as power, greed, and prurience. Purge one idea and people will find a different excuse to be just as brutal and judgmental.
| 195 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:21:36am |
re: #191 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
I see the word “beyond” and similar used often in this context. The implied meaning is often “above” or “greater”, and designed to remove science (and logic) from addressing anything of the sort.
The existence, or not, of divine being(s) is most certainly within the sphere of logic and reason, which in turn are the fundamentals of science, the latter being a structure for applying the former.
it is outside science, then, because existence of God cannot be demonstrated objectively. Logic and reason are tools of science, but they have to work with demostrable and independently verifiable facts.
| 196 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:24:27am |
re: #192 Obdicut
Well, anytime someone says “I believe in something that’s outside of physical reality, can never be detected, but can affect it” they’re saying something innately untestable, as long as they’re not claiming the conditions under which it will affect physical reality are predictable.
As I said, the fact that someone claims something is untestable or even beyond reason, does not mean that they are right beyond the simplistic scenario they describe.
| 197 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:25:18am |
re: #194 The Ghost of a Flea
I’d argue with the last bit. The formal ideologies often give cohesion and direction. Nazi ideology wan’t just a bunch of Germans being assholes. It was ‘inspirational’, it really did change the way people perceived things.
I have a friend of mine who grew up a Nazi Youth. He was 15 when the war ended. He never actually did anything to anyone, but he frankly says he hated Jews with all his heart, believed they wanted to destroy him and his family, and likewise with the Soviets.
He got de-radicalized by contact with Americans during the occupation, and by Jewish teacher at college and university, but he said it took about ten total years to ‘deprogram’ him.
He’s a wonderful, kind, generous man. I really believe that’s the core of him, and that the hate was generated by fear purposefully inculcated by the Nazis.
| 198 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:26:54am |
re: #196 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
As I said, the fact that someone claims something is untestable or even beyond reason, does not mean that they are right beyond the simplistic scenario they describe.
Of course it doesn’t mean they’re right. But that’s all you can say; that the conditions are untestable. I prefer to point out that there is simply no reason to ever even begin thinking about the concept of god.
| 199 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:29:46am |
re: #195 Second Amendment Renegation
it is outside science, then, because existence of God cannot be demonstrated objectively. Logic and reason are tools of science, but they have to work with demostrable and independently verifiable facts.
Not so. Einstein did not work with demonstrable facts. That much of what he predicted turned out to be verifiable is an illustration of the foolishness of “predicting” that what is not known cannot be known.
| 200 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:32:04am |
re: #198 Obdicut
Of course it doesn’t mean they’re right. But that’s all you can say; that the conditions are untestable. I prefer to point out that there is simply no reason to ever even begin thinking about the concept of god.
You can point out that the conditions are stupid, which is a good reason to not think further about them, but of course we will anyway.
| 201 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:35:20am |
re: #197 Obdicut
I’d argue with the last bit. The formal ideologies often give cohesion and direction. Nazi ideology wan’t just a bunch of Germans being assholes. It was ‘inspirational’, it really did change the way people perceived things.
I have a friend of mine who grew up a Nazi Youth. He was 15 when the war ended. He never actually did anything to anyone, but he frankly says he hated Jews with all his heart, believed they wanted to destroy him and his family, and likewise with the Soviets.
He got de-radicalized by contact with Americans during the occupation, and by Jewish teacher at college and university, but he said it took about ten total years to ‘deprogram’ him.
He’s a wonderful, kind, generous man. I really believe that’s the core of him, and that the hate was generated by fear purposefully inculcated by the Nazis.
One has to keep in mind that most anyone who was born after 1915 - that is, anyone who was not an adult when the Nazis came to power could not be held responsible for the Nazis coming to power and belonged to a generation that had its future stolen from it through war, death and destruction. They are victims, too.
I just checked the stats, there are around 150,000 Germans still living who were born before 1915.
| 202 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:36:49am |
re: #199 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Not so. Einstein did not work with demonstrable facts. That much of what he predicted turned out to be verifiable is an illustration of the foolishness of “predicting” that what is not known cannot be known.
yes, and relativity remained unconfirmed until objective data verified it, I believe the first time was when the bending of light rays was observed during a solar eclipse.
| 203 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:38:04am |
re: #198 Obdicut
Of course it doesn’t mean they’re right. But that’s all you can say; that the conditions are untestable. I prefer to point out that there is simply no reason to ever even begin thinking about the concept of god.
There are lots of reasons to think about the concept of God and there are times and places to speculate about it. Just not in a science classroom in a public school.
| 204 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:39:38am |
re: #203 Second Amendment Renegation
Sorry, I don’t think there’s even a coherent concept of ‘god’ to think about.
| 205 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:40:20am |
re: #204 Obdicut
Sorry, I don’t think there’s even a coherent concept of ‘god’ to think about.
not in any scientific sense, no…
| 206 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:41:06am |
| 208 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:41:36am |
re: #202 Second Amendment Renegation
yes, and relativity remained unconfirmed until objective data verified it, I believe the first time was when the bending of light rays was observed during a solar eclipse.
If I recall, it was the eclipse of a star by Venus.
| 211 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:45:28am |
France shootings: Police lay siege to Toulouse suspect
Police hunting a gunman suspected of killing seven people in southern France are laying siege to a flat in Toulouse.
The man, named as Mohammed Merah, 23, a Frenchman of Algerian origin, has said he belongs to al-Qaeda and acted to “avenge Palestinian children”.
Police are negotiating with the man, who is still said to be armed but says he may give himself up this afternoon.
French Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the man had been tracked by French intelligence for “several years”.
…
The prison director in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan, Gulam Farooq, told the BBC that Merah was arrested in 2007 and jailed for three years for planting bombs, before escaping in a mass Taliban-led break-out in 2008.
…
| 212 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:46:25am |
In other news…
Tennessee Passes ‘Monkey Bill’ To Teach The ‘Controversy’ On Evolution And Climate Science adf.ly/6VP2g #SkyRSSNetwork— Think Progess Feed (@ThinkProgressFD) March 21, 2012
| 215 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:48:53am |
re: #214 Gus
Wow. How he got into France is going to get some examination.
| 216 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:49:13am |
Tennessee Passes ‘Monkey Bill’ To Teach The ‘Controversy’ On Evolution And Climate Science
On Monday, the Tennessee state legislature passed legislation that requires public schools to teach the “controversy” over evolution, global warming, and human cloning:
The Senate voted 24-8 for HB368, which sponsor Sen. Bo Watson, R-Hixson, says will provide guidelines for teachers answering students’ questions about evolution, global warming and other scientific subjects. Critics call it a “monkey bill” that promotes creationism in classrooms.
…
The bill now goes to Gov. Bill Haslam (R-TN) for his signature.Also on Monday, a bill to permit the display of the Ten Commandments in public buildings (HB2658) passed the Tennessee House by a vote of 93-9.
| 217 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:49:23am |
re: #209 Obdicut
Or even logical sense.
Well, there has to be some meaning of the word “god”, given that it’s a word which we can use in conversation and have people understand what we’re talking about.
Or, if you’re saying that there isn’t even that meaning, and that such conversations inevitably mask mutual incomprehension, I’d say (in a somewhat mischievous way) that even that would be staking out a position over what the word “god” represented (a private and non-communicatable concept of external objective truth, say).
But, I don’t have the time or energy to mount a serious argument about it this morning…
| 218 |
The Force Ghost of a Flea Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:50:10am |
re: #197 Obdicut
I’d argue with the last bit. The formal ideologies often give cohesion and direction. Nazi ideology wan’t just a bunch of Germans being assholes. It was ‘inspirational’, it really did change the way people perceived things.
I have a friend of mine who grew up a Nazi Youth. He was 15 when the war ended. He never actually did anything to anyone, but he frankly says he hated Jews with all his heart, believed they wanted to destroy him and his family, and likewise with the Soviets.
He got de-radicalized by contact with Americans during the occupation, and by Jewish teacher at college and university, but he said it took about ten total years to ‘deprogram’ him.
He’s a wonderful, kind, generous man. I really believe that’s the core of him, and that the hate was generated by fear purposefully inculcated by the Nazis.
Just lost a longer, better response. The short version is that I was being curt in the post you were responding to, not fully developing a complete understanding of the dialectic between individual and concept. Rolling out the idea to full length, I generally agree with you.
| 219 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:50:45am |
re: #215 Obdicut
Wow. How he got into France is going to get some examination.
I am curious about this:
French Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the man had been tracked by French intelligence for “several years”.
So they were “tracking” this nut and let it go this far? And he was armed to the gills even while being “tracked?”
| 220 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:50:52am |
re: #217 iossarian
Well, there has to be some meaning of the word “god”, given that it’s a word which we can use in conversation and have people understand what we’re talking about.
I don’t think people do understand what they’re talking about.
Or, if you’re saying that there isn’t even that meaning, and that such conversations inevitably mask mutual incomprehension, I’d say (in a somewhat mischievous way) that even that would be staking out a position over what the word “god” represented (a private and non-communicatable concept of external objective truth, say).
I don’t think non-communicatable things exist.
| 221 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:51:07am |
re: #209 Obdicut
Or even logical sense.
no, it has a lot more to do with our emotional, social and cultural sense.
| 222 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:51:51am |
re: #221 Second Amendment Renegation
no, it has a lot more to do with our emotional, social and cultural sense.
I’d say the word ‘sense’ there is a different sense of sense than when you say logical sense. Make sense?
| 223 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:54am |
re: #219 Gus
So they were “tracking” this nut and let it go this far? And he was armed to the gills even while being “tracked?”
I hope we’re doing better here.
| 224 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:56am |
because it is incommunicable. means we can talk about it all we want, we just cannot reach any logical conclusions about it, save how it affects our emotional and psychological state.
| 225 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:37am |
re: #220 Obdicut
I don’t think people do understand what they’re talking about.
Maybe, maybe not. Inability to explain a concept to someone else does not necessarily imply that you don’t grasp it yourself (though it might be an indicator of such). Also, incomplete grasp of a concept by a person does not necessarily imply that the concept itself is invalid. The fields of mathematics and math education give fairly clear examples of this.
I don’t think non-communicatable things exist.
Well, I do, and since they’re non-communicatable, it’s not really fruitful to argue about it.
| 226 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:57:15am |
re: #225 iossarian
Maybe, maybe not. Inability to explain a concept to someone else does not necessarily imply that you don’t grasp it yourself (though it might be an indicator of such).
If nobody can communicate it, it’s at least manifestly different from every other sort of idea.
Well, I do, and since they’re non-communicatable, it’s not really fruitful to argue about it.
Heh. Exactly.
But how do you account that I’ve never felt or thought anything I feel is non-communicable?
| 227 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:58:38am |
re: #223 Obdicut
I hope we’re doing better here.
WRT to foreign terrorism? Perhaps so. Domestically though we continually have mass shooting ever other week or month sometimes that people interestingly enough blow off without giving it much thought.
Of course you know what this will mean on the social media end given the, nature, of the suspect and his alleged cause.
| 228 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:00:08am |
re: #227 Gus
Yep. As I said, maybe a couple people will have introspection in the fact that far-right was a good suspect too, and that the victims might have been chosen by a right-wing terrorist too, but I doubt many well.
| 229 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:01:20am |
re: #219 Gus
I am curious about this:
So they were “tracking” this nut and let it go this far? And he was armed to the gills even while being “tracked?”
It seems he was probably on a watchlist because of his travels to Pakistan and Afghanistan. I’m not sure how closely they were monitoring his activities.
| 230 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:02:47am |
re: #228 Obdicut
Yep. As I said, maybe a couple people will have introspection in the fact that far-right was a good suspect too, and that the victims might have been chosen by a right-wing terrorist too, but I doubt many well.
as I recall, both Nazis and Islamists share a hatred of Jews. Just shows that warped minds think alike.
“We should invade them, kill their leaders and convert them…”
-Ann Coulter
| 231 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:03:49am |
OK, I see he has been arrested.
| 232 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:04:13am |
re: #229 Killgore Trout
It seems he was probably on a watchlist because of his travels to Pakistan and Afghanistan. I’m not sure how closely they were monitoring his activities.
Probably so. “Tracking” can mean anything.
| 233 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:07:08am |
re: #226 Obdicut
If nobody can communicate it, it’s at least manifestly different from every other sort of idea.
Ah, but some people do, in fact, think that they are communicating about it. We can argue about whether they are or not, of course.
So there’s maybe two different possible definitions of “god” here. The first might be something like:
god, n: A word which several groups of people use to denote a concept of a divine being which they claim to share.
The second might be:
god, n: A word which individual people use to denote a concept of a divine being which they claim to hold.
Those two definitions might actually lead to quite different defenses, if accused of nonsensicality or falsehood.
But how do you account that I’ve never felt or thought anything I feel is non-communicable?
It’s a good question. I’ve only begun to feel that certain aspects of my life are non-communicatable relatively recently, and to be more precise, I’m not really sure that they’re strictly non-communicatable, it’s more complex than that.
Maybe a better way of saying it is that I think that a lot of people actually have the same experiences, but that we just have to trust that we share them, we can’t actually confirm or prove that we share them in an objective way.
A relevant passage from a Queen song (!) “Father to Son” is:
Take this letter that I give you
Take it son, and hold it high
You won’t understand a word that’s in it
But you’ll write it all again before you die
| 234 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:07:39am |
re: #229 Killgore Trout
It seems he was probably on a watchlist because of his travels to Pakistan and Afghanistan. I’m not sure how closely they were monitoring his activities.
Christian Etelin said that his client had been in court recently and was due to be sentenced in April to one month for driving without a licence. The lawyer revealed that, as a young man, Mr. Merah served time for purse-snatching but said he was not involved in drugs. His mother and older sister felt unable to keep him on the straight and narrow.
| 235 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:08:42am |
re: #233 iossarian
Ah, but some people do, in fact, think that they are communicating about it. We can argue about whether they are or not, of course.
Well, obviously. But I don’t think they are, so the rest of that doesn’t matter to me.
god, n: A word which several groups of people use to denote a concept of a divine being which they claim to share.
That’s a completely circular definition, since ‘divine being’ is just another word for ‘god’.
| 236 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:09:49am |
re: #235 Obdicut
Well, obviously. But I don’t think they are, so the rest of that doesn’t matter to me.
Just to be clear: is that a matter of opinion to you?
| 237 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:11:00am |
Oh, look.
Another “isolated incident” of rightwing violence.
Arrest made in fiery attack on Wendy Davis’ office
FORT WORTH — One man was arrested late Tuesday in connection with an attack on the Fort Worth office of State Sen. Wendy Davis, authorities said.
The man was picked up about 11 p.m., said Capt. Tom Crow, a spokesman for the Fort Worth Fire Department.
The man, who was not immediately identified, was detained just hours after someone left what Davis described as a “homemade incendiary device” outside the door of her third-floor offices in the So7 development.
A spokesman for Davis said staff members found a pile of burning bottles outside the door.
A staff member used a fire extinguisher to put out waist-high flames.
Police declined to release further details but a news conference was scheduled for 10 a.m.
One of the photos in the story is captioned as follows:
Sen. Wendy Davis speaks at a March 10 rally at Magnolia Green Park in Fort Worth. Davis and Tarrant County Democrats held a rally to protest what they called attacks on women and family planning in Texas.
| 239 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:11:31am |
re: #236 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Just to be clear: is that a matter of opinion to you?
No, I think the concept of a non-communicable idea or feeling is fundamentally flawed, as long as by communicate you don’t mean ‘cause someone to actually experience the exact same thing as you’.
Anyway, that’s a pretty ontological discussion.
| 240 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:12:39am |
re: #235 Obdicut
Well, obviously. But I don’t think they are, so the rest of that doesn’t matter to me.
That’s a completely circular definition, since ‘divine being’ is just another word for ‘god’.
Do you ever entertain the possibility that the people who claim to be able to understand what other people mean by “god” or “divine being” are right, and you’re just not getting it?
To re-use the mathematics example, what if a bunch of dudes with unkempt white hair tried to explain fields to me, and I just didn’t get it (this actually happened)?
| 241 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:13:32am |
re: #238 Gus
In 2010 he tried to apply for the French Foreign Legion, but was rejected.
That might help to explain the attack on the soldiers.
| 243 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:05am |
re: #242 ggt
Morning all!
How is it so far?
God: does he exist, or not? Discuss.
Other than that, not all that much.
| 244 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:15am |
re: #235 Obdicut
Well, obviously. But I don’t think they are, so the rest of that doesn’t matter to me.
That’s a completely circular definition, since ‘divine being’ is just another word for ‘god’.
depends on your concept of god.
| 245 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:15am |
re: #240 iossarian
Do you ever entertain the possibility that the people who claim to be able to understand what other people mean by “god” or “divine being” are right, and you’re just not getting it?
Nope, I mean, no more than I entertain the possibility that I don’t really understand anything. There’s no reason that I shouldn’t be able to understand the concept.
To re-use the mathematics example, what if a bunch of dudes with unkempt white hair tried to explain fields to me, and I just didn’t get it (this actually happened)?
That’s because that’s really highly advanced science, and you need to understand a lot of other things before you understand it.
| 246 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:36am |
re: #243 iossarian
God: does he exist, or not? Discuss.
Other than that, not all that much.
first, define: god
| 247 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:16:16am |
| 248 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:16:30am |
re: #239 Obdicut
Can you describe how you arrived at the conclusion that there is no coherent definition of ‘god’? (*Without* asking to provide a coherent definition.) Did the process involve an analysis of definitions known to you and finding that they’re self-contradictory?
Also, is the idea of Olympian gods incoherent?
| 249 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:15am |
| 250 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:37am |
God is a you problem and not a me problem so I won’t comment.
//
| 251 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:18:27am |
re: #245 Obdicut
Nope, I mean, no more than I entertain the possibility that I don’t really understand anything. There’s no reason that I shouldn’t be able to understand the concept.
Really? So it’s not possible that a concept is graspable by some people, but not by others (in this case you?). I disagree very much with that statement - I think there are many concepts that I don’t get but other people do, and vice versa.
That’s because that’s really highly advanced science, and you need to understand a lot of other things before you understand it.
Well, sure, and if I’d put in a bit more effort I might have got my head around it, since I did fairly well in some other areas of similar complexity.
Maybe if you put more effort into understanding the notion of “god”, you’d wind up getting it? ;)
| 252 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:18:40am |
Socratophobe.//
| 253 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:19:00am |
“That than which nothing greater can be conceived.”
-Thomas Aquinas
So, yes, I think there is a god.
beyond that, I will not commit.
| 256 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:20:06am |
re: #240 iossarian
Do you ever entertain the possibility that the people who claim to be able to understand what other people mean by “god” or “divine being” are right, and you’re just not getting it?
Most of us atheists do get it, because many of us were raised in the same beliefs only to find them wanting. Belief and understanding are not synonymous.
| 258 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:21:47am |
| 259 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:22:33am |
now it seems they didn’t catch the guy after all
| 261 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:23:02am |
re: #256 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Most of us atheists do get it, because many of us were raised in the same beliefs only to find them wanting. Belief and understanding are not synonymous.
Oh, I didn’t mean belief - I was just talking about whether we can use the word in conversation and have a shared understanding of what it means.
I think the answer is somewhere between yes and no.
| 262 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:23:17am |
I don’t know.
I do think there is something that binds us all and makes the universe greater than the sum of it’s parts.
I don’t think science will ever explain it.
| 263 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:23:23am |
re: #248 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Can you describe how you arrived at the conclusion that there is no coherent definition of ‘god’?
Yeah, examination of various proffered definitions of god, which were all either self-contradictory, logically impossible, or just asserted something was undetectable.
Also, is the idea of Olympian gods incoherent?
Well, in a way— their origin stories are incoherent. But that actual physical gods are chilling on Mt. Olympus is testable, as is any event attributed to them. And even then, the assertion is different from another class of ‘gods’, these ones just have supposed powers that derive from otherworldly sources, rather than solely existing as otherworldly stuff.
| 264 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:23:43am |
| 265 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:24:20am |
re: #264 ggt
looks like the cap to an old fashioned thermos.
Look! Up in the sky! It’s! THERMOS MAN!
//
| 266 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:24:36am |
Things I’ve learned since Saturday during my visit to dads!!
1) The walk from the house I was raised in (where dad still lives) to Everett Square is a lot further than I recall (either that,, or I’m a lot older!!)
2)The grammar school I went to is a lot smaller than I recall
3)When I went to high school they wouldn’t even let us walk on the plaza out front of the school, (we had to enter and exit the school via the side and back doors),Today they let cars park on the plaza
4) Mike M Mike D and Frank N ,,, still crazy after all these years!!!
5) Kirbys restaurant in Everett Square has GREAT clam chowder (thanks, Eillen)
Who says you can’t go home!?!?!?
| 267 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:15am |
re: #251 iossarian
Really? So it’s not possible that a concept is graspable by some people, but not by others (in this case you?).
No, that’s not what I said.
Maybe if you put more effort into understanding the notion of “god”, you’d wind up getting it? ;)
But I did. And it’s not presented as a concept that’s at all difficult to grasp. With fields, for example, it depends on less-complex, understandable scientific assertions. you work your way up to it. There’s no such parallel with god. There’s no lower-level idea that is in the same category, that can be understood and is true. Most of the lower-level ideas associated are disprovable..
| 268 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:23am |
re: #263 Obdicut
Well, I see a sort of a loophole there. Why should detectability and testability play any role in whether or not a definition is coherent?
| 269 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:24am |
re: #253 ggt
“That than which nothing greater can be conceived.”
-Thomas Aquinas
Pfttth. Just another way to say gaps and give them another name.
| 270 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:26am |
| 271 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:33am |
re: #263 Obdicut
Yeah, examination of various proffered definitions of god, which were all either self-contradictory, logically impossible, or just asserted something was undetectable.
All possibly true, but that doesn’t mean that people don’t have a concept of god, just as the fact that Santa Claus doesn’t exist* doesn’t mean that four-year-olds can’t have a concept of Santa Claus.
* BELATED SPOILER ALERT!!!
| 272 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:54am |
re: #261 iossarian
Oh, I didn’t mean belief - I was just talking about whether we can use the word in conversation and have a shared understanding of what it means.
I think the answer is somewhere between yes and no.
No, I don’t think we can. When I talk G-d to people, I have a pretty good idea of what their concept of G-d is and use that for conversational purposes. Depending on the person, I may let them know that my concept of God is different.
People have an emotional concept (usually childhood emotions) of what God is and most can’t see past that.
| 273 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:26:48am |
| 274 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:27:07am |
re: #269 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Pfttth. Just another way to say gaps and give them another name.
But humans are humans, we will always be reaching for the next “unexplained” phenom. no?
| 275 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:27:26am |
re: #268 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Well, I see a sort of a loophole there. Why should detectability and testability play any role in whether or not the definition is coherent?
Because the assertion “There’s a dude who lives on Olympus and can chuck lightning bolts around” is coherent. That his power is ‘otherwordly’ might just be a misinterpretation. So, the otherworldly part is always untestable but the actual physical existence of someone that can do the things that the god is claimed to do is testable.
| 276 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:27:55am |
re: #270 sattv4u2
The first Coffee Delivery Service!?!
Well, while I’d like a cup the size of a helmet, I don’t want to drink out of the one he is wearing.
ewwww—hair cooties!
| 277 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:28:12am |
re: #261 iossarian
I think the answer is somewhere between yes and no.
I think that means the question was simplistically phrased.
| 278 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:28:30am |
re: #271 iossarian
All possibly true, but that doesn’t mean that people don’t have a concept of god, just as the fact that Santa Claus doesn’t exist* doesn’t mean that four-year-olds can’t have a concept of Santa Claus.
But Santa Claus is demonstrably false, unless he’s some dude who never gives out any presents.
| 279 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:21am |
re: #275 Obdicut
Because the assertion “There’s a dude who lives on Olympus and can chuck lightning bolts around” is coherent. That his power is ‘otherwordly’ might just be a misinterpretation. So, the otherworldly part is always untestable but the actual physical existence of someone that can do the things that the god is claimed to do is testable.
‘There’s dude who lives on Olympus, can chuck lightning bolts around and is not detectable by mortals unless he wants to’ seems pretty coherent, right?
| 280 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:33am |
re: #270 sattv4u2
The first Coffee Delivery Service!?!
Yep. I’ll see if can get Rob Schneider on the phone.
“Staring Rob Schneider, as the stapler thermos.”
| 281 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:36am |
re: #278 Obdicut
But Santa Claus is demonstrably false, unless he’s some dude who never gives out any presents.
Can you prove the existence of love?
Or, as Haddaway might have put it, what is love?
| 282 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:30:04am |
re: #278 Obdicut
But Santa Claus is demonstrably false, unless he’s some dude who never gives out any presents.
Ah, but now we get into the “nature of reality” concept.
Immanuel Kant and all.
for the record: I believe in Santa.
:0
| 283 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:30:14am |
re: #274 ggt
But humans are humans, we will always be reaching for the next “unexplained” phenom. no?
Some will. Some don’t want to go there and call it religion.
| 284 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:30:29am |
re: #281 iossarian
Can you prove the existence of love?
Or, as Haddaway might have put it, what is love?
| 285 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:30:33am |
re: #281 iossarian
Can you prove the existence of love?
Or, as Haddaway might have put it, what is love?
God = Love
That’s what the nuns taught me and I’ve found it has worked well for me.
| 286 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:01am |
Make God, not WAR!
| 287 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:25am |
re: #279 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
‘There’s dude who lives on Olympus, can chuck lightning bolts around and is not detectable by mortals unless he wants to’ seems pretty coherent, right?
No, the not-detectable part isn’t coherent.
| 288 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:44am |
| 289 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:54am |
Consciousness, thoughts, memory, intelligence, love, hate, God, no-God, is all a product of biology.
| 290 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:32:53am |
re: #288 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Why?
Because then you’re just back to not being able to demonstrate the existence, and it’s just the first definition of a god.
| 291 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:32:55am |
re: #283 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Some will. Some don’t want to go there and call it religion.
Ah, see I separate religion and God.
Religion is one of the ways man attempts to explain and control his world. God, in relation to religion, is just the schtick that is used to sell it.
IMHO
| 292 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:33:07am |
That “biology” being the brain. Love is a product of brain function. Once that brain function ceases to operate correctly through disease or aging there is no more love or other thoughts.
| 293 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:33:44am |
re: #292 Gus
That “biology” being the brain. Love is a product of brain function. Once that brain function ceases to operate correctly through disease or age there is no more love or other thoughts.
Thats why God made Viagra!!!
/
| 294 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:33:48am |
re: #281 iossarian
Can you prove the existence of love?
Or, as Haddaway might have put it, what is love?
We can prove empathy. My off the cuff definition of love would be a specific targeted empathy which gives pleasure.
| 295 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:34:10am |
re: #292 Gus
That “biology” being the brain. Love is a product of brain function. Once that brain function ceases to operate correctly through disease or aging there is no more love or other thoughts.
So, if no one is there to feel it, there is no love?
Like a sound in the woods?
| 296 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:34:20am |
re: #292 Gus
Have you read Darwin’s Dangerous Idea yet? I think you’d really dig it.
| 298 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:34:42am |
Why do dogs eat paper out of the garbage?
| 299 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:34:50am |
re: #294 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
We can prove empathy. My off the cuff definition of love would be a specific targeted empathy which gives pleasure.
So, when you tell someone: “I love you”, what you mean is: “I am experiencing a targeted sense of empathy which gives me pleasure”.
And when someone tells you that they love you, you assume the same thing in reverse?
| 300 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:34:50am |
| 301 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:34:56am |
re: #290 Obdicut
Because then you’re just back to not being able to demonstrate the existence, and it’s just the first definition of a god.
I don’t see the connection between demonstration of existence and coherence of a definition. There’s nothing illogical about not being able to demonstrate the existence of a god (unless he wants you to).
| 302 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:35:03am |
re: #295 ggt
So, if no one is there to feel it, there is no love?
Like a sound in the woods?
Pretty much I think. That’s one of the pluses of society, family, cultures, etc.
| 303 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:35:07am |
re: #291 ggt
Ah, see I separate religion and God.
Religion is one of the ways man attempts to explain and control his world. God, in relation to religion, is just the schtick that is used to sell it.
IMHO
I take your point, but remove religion from the equation and I suggest a better word to use is spirituality.
| 304 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:36:03am |
re: #302 Gus
Pretty much I think. That’s one of the pluses of society, family, cultures, etc.
sounds like a very human-centric view of the universe.
| 305 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:36:50am |
re: #304 ggt
sounds like a very human-centric view of the universe.
That’s because it is human-centric. We do have pets though. ;)
| 306 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:36:57am |
re: #301 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
I don’t see the connection between demonstration of existence and coherence of a definition. There’s nothing illogical about not being able to demonstrate the existence of a god (unless he wants you to).
Illogicial? Maybe not. But to me, a coherent explanation has to also mesh with our understanding of physical reality. Maybe I’m just using coherent differently.
| 307 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:37:06am |
re: #303 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
I take your point, but remove religion from the equation and I suggest a better word to use is spirituality.
Yeah, well, we can talk semantics all day.
There seem to be many concepts of what God is or isn’t in a society that has only one god.
I don’t get it.
| 308 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:37:44am |
geez, I am so running late.
Have a great morning all!
| 309 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:38:04am |
re: #299 iossarian
So, when you tell someone: “I love you”, what you mean is: “I am experiencing a targeted sense of empathy which gives me pleasure”.
And when someone tells you that they love you, you assume the same thing in reverse?
Something like that, although I have a sense this train could become tied in semantic knots soon.
| 311 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:39:32am |
My God would relieve you of debts! Cure cancer! Regrow teeth!
//
| 312 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:40:24am |
re: #306 Obdicut
Illogicial? Maybe not. But to me, a coherent explanation has to also mesh with our understanding of physical reality. Maybe I’m just using coherent differently.
I don’t see ‘not being detectable unless he wants to’ as contradicting our understanding of physical reality, rather than just transcending the limits of our understanding.
| 313 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:40:47am |
| 315 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:41:13am |
re: #313 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
In any spot you want, too.
No! That would be weird and immoral.
//
| 316 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:41:31am |
re: #310 Gus
I could only define God from an idealized position.
//
Oh, don’t be obscure. What’s its number in Kama Sutra? ///
| 318 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:42:15am |
re: #312 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Well, so it’s a disprovable contention, right? Someone could invent something that does detect him? What you mean is a guy that can’t currently be detected with our available technology?
| 319 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:42:18am |
Explosives found in car of brother of Toulouse killer
French police report finding an unspecified quantity of explosives inside the Toulouse killer’s brother’s car.
| 320 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:43:04am |
re: #319 Killgore Trout
I really hope they’re all there is to it, and there aren’t more.
| 321 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:43:39am |
re: #237 RadicalModerate
Oh, look.
Another “isolated incident” of rightwing violence.
Arrest made in fiery attack on Wendy Davis’ office
One of the photos in the story is captioned as follows:
And I just HAD to go over to FoxNews to see if they had reported this story.
The comments are divided.
Most of them are claiming that it’s a “false flag” attack, while there’s a significant number of people who posted (and liked) stuff like these gems:
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]
sunex1 1 hour ago
Our country is dire need of insurrection, i say try again.Cridhe 1 hour ago
Funny how Liberals get all Civil Discourse and all when a few incendiaries follow their incendiary policies and remarks.
4 people liked thischarlie25 1 hour ago
It’s just a coincidense that a b o m b that invented by a russian communist (Molotov) would be used on a communist.
12 people liked this.tcbinc 5 hours ago
Remember fellow Patriots the slime on the left is our enemy BUT WE The People have always been the heroes in every war .
We need to stand together and fight them STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL roll up oursleeves and fight the left. We need to be relentless and fight them on every blog , FB page, street comer, office ,EVERY WHERE we run across the enemy
TIME TO BREAK SOME EGGS !
6 people liked this.
| 322 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:43:52am |
re: #311 Gus
My God would relieve you of debts! Cure cancer! Regrow teeth!
//
No doubt that will be in the GOP promise for prosperity version x.0.
| 323 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:44:52am |
re: #309 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Something like that, although I have a sense this train could become tied in semantic knots soon.
No, not really. I don’t have an argument with that position, and in fact I think it’s a fairly accurate description of what’s going on.
But I also think that, in order for love to “work” (which it manifestly does), there has to be a trust that the other person in the love relationship is experiencing a similar (maybe even the same) feeling. This trust is thus in a shared yet non-communicatable experience, since it’s impossible to prove to someone else that you do truly “love” them in the sense that they understand the word, because that understanding is tied up in their own private emotional response.
Anyway, I spent rather more time on that than I really should have done, and it is now time for work to intervene. Bye all.
| 325 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:46:31am |
re: #323 iossarian
I don’t think that experience is non-communicable. Why do you?
since it’s impossible to prove to someone else that you do truly “love” them in the sense that they understand the word,
That doesn’t show you’re not communicating, it’s just the solipsism of everything; by those standards, you can’t prove anything at all is communicable.
| 327 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:47:50am |
re: #321 RadicalModerate
“t’s just a coincidense that a b o m b that invented by a russian communist (Molotov) would be used on a communist.”
IIRC, the name was invented by the Finns to use on Communists in the Winter War of 1939-40.
Or is that just a coinsedents?
| 328 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:50:06am |
It becomes more apparent as you get to older. Try telling me how much spirituality you feel when you have a burning migraine headache. Or even worse through Alzheimers, dementia, brain trauma, strokes, etc. If there was an “outside” element to “existence” then non of these changes to the brain would have an effect. Therefore through disease or trauma alone it illustrates that emotions, love, the soul, etc., are the result of brain function. This was settled 100s of years ago.
| 329 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:51:29am |
re: #327 Second Amendment Renegation
The phrase was coined by the Finns while they were fucking up the Soviets, a development from them calling the bombs that fell ‘Molotov break baskets’.
But the actual use of the weapon predates the term, and the first recorded use is by anti-Communists in Spain.
| 332 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:55:47am |
re: #318 Obdicut
Well, so it’s a disprovable contention, right? Someone could invent something that does detect him? What you mean is a guy that can’t currently be detected with our available technology?
Yes and no. Basically, cannot be detected with our available tech, yes. But no guarantee that any tech progress that goes by itself (without interference from such a being) will lead to detection - due to some “outside the box” factor (e.g.: a different kind of matter that is not foreseen by any of our possible physical theories since it’s not a result of the natural evolution of the universe; or the additional dimensions stuff, control of space-time with the possibility of “warping” our detection tools at will, etc.).
| 333 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:58:24am |
re: #332 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Things that aren’t consistently detectable can’t be having a major effect on our universe, though. They certainly can’t be producing lightning, we can prove that. So you can disprove most of what’s being said about him, and all you’re left with is “a guy who can’t be detected”, which is just the first definition.
| 334 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:59:08am |
re: #329 Obdicut
The phrase was coined by the Finns while they were fucking up the Soviets, a development from them calling the bombs that fell ‘Molotov break baskets’.
| 337 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:02:44am |
re: #336 Obdicut
Mancos Peybro is going to to the Nington?
It’s goofy weird. They’re already talking about “winning the Super Bowl” like it’s their destiny. The local news won’t stop talking about it. Tim Tebow has been tossed into the trash can so to speak.
| 338 |
Political Atheist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:03:03am |
re: #312 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
re: #332 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
re: #318 Obdicut
I don’t see ‘not being detectable unless he wants to’ as contradicting our understanding of physical reality, rather than just transcending the limits of our understanding.
Science find god? Science could not find the radio spectrum until recently. Recently in age of mankind terms. That “someone” that invents a thing to see god might easily be millennia in the future just because it will take that level of technical scientific advance to have a shot at it. We are proud of what we have. Too much so. We can’t even (yet) figure out SETI, dark matter, etc. I for one would not expect science to be any help in my lifetime or that of any man alive now. Just guessing for fun here of course.
| 339 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:04:34am |
re: #338 Daniel Ballard
Science find god? Science could not find the radio spectrum until recently.
Until recently. But radio is just a form of radiation. The could demonstrate that there were forms of radiation that weren’t detectable with the naked eye from ages ago. They cooked with it.
That “someone” that invents a thing to see god might easily be millennia in the future just because it will take that level of technical scientific advance to have a shot at it.
Only if god is highly irrelevant to the universe.
| 340 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:06:07am |
re: #237 RadicalModerate
Fort Worth Police news conference is starting now regarding arrest of fire bomber at Davis’ office.
[Link: www.wfaa.com…]
| 341 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:06:33am |
re: #333 Obdicut
Things that aren’t consistently detectable can’t be having a major effect on our universe, though.
Why? I don’t think it follows in any way. This confuses the detectability of the beings as such (crudely speaking, their “bodies”) and detectability of their effects on our universe, which can be however major.
They certainly can’t be producing lightning, we can prove that.
That’s seems like an obviously untrue statement. How can you prove that such a being cannot produce lightning?
| 342 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:06:36am |
re: #340 RadicalModerate
Luckily, he seems to have been an incompetent jackass.
| 343 |
Political Atheist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:11:12am |
re: #339 Obdicut
Until recently. But radio is just a form of radiation. The could demonstrate that there were forms of radiation that weren’t detectable with the naked eye from ages ago. They cooked with it.
Only if god is highly irrelevant to the universe.
Why is that a given? If one thinks of the Christian or whatever interventionist god, sure.
| 344 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:12:31am |
re: #343 Daniel Ballard
Why is that a given? If one thinks of the Christian or whatever interventionist god, sure.
Because if you can’t detect him except without very subtle stuff, he’s not up to much.
| 345 |
Political Atheist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:13:47am |
re: #344 Obdicut
In our visible lives perhaps. But the universe includes so much more than us.
Gotta work though…
BBL
| 346 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:14:54am |
re: #345 Daniel Ballard
No clue what you mean by ‘visible lives’. And if you’re implying god is up to stuff a long way away, then he could at least write once in awhile.
| 347 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:17:04am |
re: #335 Gus
So did you hear that Peyton Manning is going to the Broncos?
//
| 348 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:18:38am |
re: #346 Obdicut
No clue what you mean by ‘visible lives’. And if you’re implying god is up to stuff a long way away, then he could at least write once in awhile.
Maybe He doesn’t have your e-mail addy
I think I got a post card
I didn’t like that He put “Wish You Were Here”
| 349 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:19:05am |
re: #346 Obdicut
Obdi, did you miss #341?
| 350 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:23:15am |
re: #349 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Obdi, did you miss #341?
I KNEW I heard a thunderbolt in the NYC area!!
//
| 351 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:24:53am |
re: #341 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Why? I don’t think it follows in any way. This confuses the detectability of the beings as such (crudely speaking, their “bodies”) and detectability of their effects on our universe, which can be however major.
I don’t think that’s a confusion. If you can’t detect anything he’s doing, or himself, then there’s no reason to suspect he’s doing anything, or exists.
That’s seems like an obviously untrue statement. How can you prove that such a being cannot produce lighting?
Because we can show what does produce lightning. So if you’re just asserting that some lightning— but never the one that’s tested or observable— is his lightning, then sure.
| 352 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:25:40am |
All I can say is that I find it, interesting, that such a screwed up species, society, global culture, etc., can even attempt to have a grasp or knowledge of such a being that some call “God.” Apparently, humans knew about an intelligent all knowing “creator” before they even had any knowledge of biology, physics, etc.
| 353 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:27:51am |
re: #352 Gus
All I can say is that I find it, interesting, that such a screwed up species, society, global culture, etc., can even attempt to have a grasp or knowledge of such a being that some call “God.” Apparently, humans knew about an intelligent all knowing “creator” before they even had any knowledge of biology, physics, etc.
Hell,,, half of us still have 12:00 flashing on our VCR’s/ DVD players!!!!
/
| 356 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:31:51am |
re: #355 Obdicut
Maybe it’s just fear of clowns.
I don’t know. Maybe it is. All i can say is that it’s pretty lame to see.
| 357 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:34:31am |
re: #351 Obdicut
I don’t think that’s a confusion. If you can’t detect anything he’s doing, or himself, then there’s no reason to suspect he’s doing anything, or exists.
First of all, I didn’t say we can’t detect an “unnatural” lightning. Maybe he can write “ZEUS WAS HERE LOL” with lightning, that would be certainly detectable. He is undetectable in the sense that you can’t go up mount Olympus and find him (unless he allows it). His actions, however can in principle be detectable.
Second, we’re not discussing whether there is a reason to accept such a god (and since many people accept ‘gods’ on faith, this is not an issue anyway), but whether such a concept is coherent. It is not self-contradictory and it doesn’t contradict our picture of physical reality (rather, it transcends it). So it’s a coherent concept of a god.
Because we can show what does produce lightning. So if you’re just asserting that some lightning— but never the one that’s tested or observable— is his lightning, then sure.
Yes, we were discussing his abilities rather than an explanation of all lightnings in the world.
| 358 |
BongCrodny Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:34:36am |
re: #354 Gus
Two down dings on this article:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Butthurt.
Completely unsurprised at the downdingers.
| 359 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:36:48am |
re: #354 Gus
Two down dings on this article:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Butthurt.
THE COWBOYS SUCK!
| 360 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:37:41am |
re: #357 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Okay, sorry, you’ve kind of lost me. If he’s doing detectable things, he’s detectable.
but whether such a concept is coherent. It is not self-contradictory and it doesn’t contradict our picture of physical reality (rather, it transcends it).
Eh, I guess. But it’s just some dude doing stuff, it doesn’t say anything about his nature in a coherent way, so I don’t think it’s that big a deal.
Yes, we were discussing his abilities rather than an explanation of all lightnings in the world.
But if all lightning that occurs can have been shown to occur under conditions that are explainable with standard explanations, we can show that he’s not actually making any lightning, so again, not that big a deal.
| 361 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:39:23am |
God created the universe and all living things! However, I don’t believe in creationism.
//
| 362 |
Interesting Times Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:40:59am |
How apropos:
Mitt Romney can’t be held accountable for his extreme right-wing views, at least according to his campaign’s senior adviser, who said the candidate should be given a “reset button” on any positions he’s taken during the primary campaign
…
FEHRNSTROM: Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. Everything changes. It’s almost like an Etch A Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and restart all of over again.
This just begs for an appropriate Photoshop, which I made just now:
| 363 |
erik_t Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:41:32am |
| 365 |
BongCrodny Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:42:53am |
| 366 |
iossarian Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:44:46am |
re: #362 Interesting Times
How I hope that everyone runs with that.
“The Etch-a-Sketch candidate”.
It’s too perfect.
| 367 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:45:37am |
re: #360 Obdicut
Okay, sorry, you’ve kind of lost me. If he’s doing detectable things, he’s detectable.
I explained the difference above at length. Also, I didn’t describe a fully undetectable god, rather the one that is detectable at his will.
Eh, I guess. But it’s just some dude doing stuff, it doesn’t say anything about his nature in a coherent way, so I don’t think it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know what you mean by a big deal. We’re not searching for a big deal. We’ve found one coherent concept of a god. This shows that the claim that there isn’t a single coherent concept of a god is false.
But if all lightning that occurs can have been shown to occur under conditions that are explainable with standard explanations, we can show that he’s not actually making any lightning, so again, not that big a deal.
Again, what’s with the big deal?
| 368 |
Interesting Times Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:45:40am |
re: #365 BongCrodny
Needs less detail.
I’ll tweak it later when I have more time :) Maybe make a version with no background so it can be superimposed anywhere.
| 369 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:45:50am |
Neighborhood watch captain in Fla. shooting graduated from Osbourn
Same HS, same graduation year as me.
Freaky.
| 370 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:45:55am |
I was watching Sky News for about a minute yesterday. Suddenly they had a segment with Catherine Middleton talking away when I realized, I don’t give a crap about what she thinks.
| 371 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:47:18am |
re: #367 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
I think we’re just using ‘coherent’ differently, then. Or it’s a form of coherent that I don’t think is in the last bit important, because the set of things that would fit inside it is infinitely larger than reality.
| 372 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:47:48am |
re: #369 Varek Raith
Neighborhood watch captain in Fla. shooting graduated from Osbourn
Same HS, same graduation year as me.
Freaky.
Zimmerman will still go to heaven and you will burn in hell!
//
| 373 |
Cinnabar Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:49:25am |
re: #360 Obdicut
But if all lightning that occurs can have been shown to occur under conditions that are explainable with standard explanations, we can show that he’s not actually making any lightning, so again, not that big a deal.
I’m in on the tail end of this discussion (good morning, everyone!), so I can’t comment on wherever it began… but what this shows is that you NEED NOT infer Zeus from the evidence.
If I spill a bucket of water onto the sidewalk, and it’s pouring rain, the person who comes along later cannot infer that I haven’t spilled any water, only that there’s no clinching evidence that the water on the sidewalk cane from someone’s spilling it.
| 374 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:49:32am |
re: #371 Obdicut
I think we’re just using ‘coherent’ differently, then. Or it’s a form of coherent that I don’t think is in the last bit important, because the set of things that would fit inside it is infinitely larger than reality.
Well, describe what coherent means to you then. Up until now I thought that to be coherent in your view the concept should not be self-contradictory or contradict what we know now about the physical reality. What other goal posts are there?
| 375 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:52:59am |
GOP Budget Plan To Reduce The Debt Actually Makes The Debt Worse
I’m shocked, shocked I tells ya!
| 376 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:53:41am |
Profile of Mohammed Merah, Toulouse shooting suspect
Merah describes himself as a mujahedeen (holy warrior) and member of Al Qaeda, French Interior Minister Claude Guéant told the press this morning. The suspect reportedly told police that he wanted to avenge the deaths of Palestinian children and punish the French military for its operations overseas. He has links to strict Salafi Islam and jihadist movements, Guéant said.
Merah had only recently become “politicized,” his lawyer Marie-Christine Ételin told Le Point. He continued to frequent nightclubs and did not consistently wear the beard traditional for devout male Muslims, other asociates told the magazine.
A man claiming to be the Toulouse shooter last night called state-owned TV network France 24 in an apparent attempt to explain himself. According to the journalist who spoke to the caller – who may or may not have Merah – he was calm, eloquent and polite. He said he had long planned the attacks as a protest against France’s ban on the burqa, its military intervention, and “our little Palestinian brothers and sisters.”
The caller told France 24 that he saw only two possible outcomes: either he would serve a prison term “with my head held high,” or he would die “with a smile on my face.”
| 377 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:54:19am |
re: #375 Varek Raith
GOP Budget Plan To Reduce The Debt Actually Makes The Debt Worse
I’m shocked, shocked I tells ya!
What does it include 100 new aircraft carriers?
| 378 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:55:12am |
re: #376 Killgore Trout
He continued to frequent nightclubs and did not consistently wear the beard traditional for devout male Muslims, other asociates told the magazine.
Heh. A fanatical hypocrite, who could have foreseen it.
| 379 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:55:44am |
| 380 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:56:08am |
I came upon a puddle of water on the sidewalk. I did not know from where it came. I walked around it and kept walking to my destination.
| 381 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:56:30am |
re: #379 Varek Raith
Romney To Women Voters: ‘Vote For The Other Guy’ If You Want Greater Access To Birth Control
#WINNING
WAR!
| 382 |
Cinnabar Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:56:34am |
re: #379 Varek Raith
Romney To Women Voters: ‘Vote For The Other Guy’ If You Want Greater Access To Birth Control
#WINNING
I’ll do that, thanks for the tip.
| 383 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:56:50am |
re: #380 Gus
I came upon a puddle of water on the sidewalk. I did not know from where it came. I walked around it and kept walking to my destination.
Believe me, you don’t want to know. //
| 384 |
Varek Raith Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:57:04am |
re: #380 Gus
I came upon a puddle of water on the sidewalk. I did not know from where it came. I walked around it and kept walking to my destination.
Zen Gus.
| 385 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:57:39am |
re: #378 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Heh. A fanatical hypocrite, who could have foreseen it.
Yeah, It’s a pretty common pattern. Very few of these guys are actually devout observant Muslims.
| 386 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:57:52am |
re: #374 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Well, i guess I’d say what are you referring to when you talk about Zeus, then. A non-understood being the attributes of which you don’t know, the physical makeup of which you don’t know, that can’t be detected (unless he wants to) etc. I don’t think that’s coherent.
If you’re putting things in terms of goalposts, though, it seems like you feel i’m trying to win the conversation or something, which I’m not. If I’m using coherent differently then you are, then yes, my statement isn’t true by your definition of coherent. If you’re describing something very vaguely, I don’t think you can say that you’re really describing it.
| 387 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:58:03am |
re: #380 Gus
I came upon a puddle of water on the sidewalk. I did not know from where it came. I walked around it and kept walking to my destination.
Had the guy walking in front of you stop and unzip for a moment?
| 388 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:58:40am |
re: #338 Daniel Ballard
re: #332 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
re: #318 ObdicutScience find god? Science could not find the radio spectrum until recently. Recently in age of mankind terms. That “someone” that invents a thing to see god might easily be millennia in the future just because it will take that level of technical scientific advance to have a shot at it. We are proud of what we have. Too much so. We can’t even (yet) figure out SETI, dark matter, etc. I for one would not expect science to be any help in my lifetime or that of any man alive now. Just guessing for fun here of course.
I can conceive, for speculative argument, a hyper LHD in another universe that triggered, accidentally or deliberately, a big bang creating ours among the countless ones that may exist; but if so, to think it was done with such precision (voiding everything we know of QM) so as to result in humans some 14 billion years later on one little planet in one little galaxy of hundreds of billions (observable), for the sole purpose of worshiping and obeying same being(s), is ridiculous.
| 389 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:59:13am |
re: #387 sattv4u2
Had the guy walking in front of you stop and unzip for a moment?
Having used public transportation for a few years my general policy is to avoid fluids and even the identification of said fluids. They’re best avoided.
//
| 390 |
Flounder Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:02:21am |
Madonna Vows to Oppose Gay Law in Putin’s Hometown
[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]
I read this headline and visualized something different.
| 391 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:06:13am |
re: #116 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Pam rails against Foxman:
I do wonder why she chose to emphasize “Soviet born”.
For the same reason that wingnuts think they can use ‘survivor’ as a slur against Soros. They got no taste and no class.
| 392 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:07:22am |
re: #116 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Pam rails against Foxman:
I do wonder why she chose to emphasize “Soviet born”.
That sort LURRRRVES Soviet-born Jews, of course, if they are socially conservative and vote Republican. (Which many are, and do.) If they do anything the wingnuts don’t like, they become scum like everyone else.
| 393 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:08:18am |
Here’s why I don’t take think Progress seriously anymore.
Suspected Shooter Of Jewish Schoolchildren In France Was Reportedly An Al Qaeda Extremist
Comment…
Is there any doubt that Israel is the single greatest cause of anti-Semitism and violence against Jews in the world?
| 394 |
Gus Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:08:30am |
re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist
For the same reason that wingnuts think they can use ‘survivor’ as a slur against Soros. They got no taste and no class.
Foxman. Extremists on both sides of the aisle hate him. Most of the recent hatred seems to come from right-wing extremists.
| 395 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:08:41am |
re: #132 researchok
I refuse to process her.
She’s like a Pakistani tribal Madrassa principal as far as I am concerned.
Self serving whack job.
If she were flat chested, no one would ever stop by.
Believe me, enrollment would go up if Pam were the principal of a Pakistani tribal madrassa.
| 396 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:09:13am |
re: #393 Killgore Trout
Because that comment hasn’t been deleted?
| 398 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:09:33am |
re: #199 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang
Not so. Einstein did not work with demonstrable facts. That much of what he predicted turned out to be verifiable is an illustration of the foolishness of “predicting” that what is not known cannot be known.
Yes he did. Math, physical laws, previously proven hypothesis, Newtonian formulas, and many other scientific facts. He was attempting to bring everything together into a unified theory, using his and previously demonstrated facts and theories together. In this process he found some inconsistencies in old theories when put up against newer revelations (or revealed by his thought experiments), but he most certainly used facts (math is a really factual science, 1+1 will always equal 2)
| 399 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:11:09am |
re: #177 Learned Mother of Zion
It turns out he is a Muslim, claims to belong to Al Qaeda, but might just be some random nut.
Almost doesn’t matter. I’ve noticed that al-Qaeda doesn’t seem to much care if individual loonies carry out random operations in their name.
The IRA would shut you the fuck down with extreme prejudice if you tried that, but al-Qaeda seems comfortable with a more grassroots, all-inclusive approach.
| 400 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:14:53am |
re: #386 Obdicut
I base my understanding on your #263:
Can you describe how you arrived at the conclusion that there is no coherent definition of ‘god’?
Yeah, examination of various proffered definitions of god, which were all either self-contradictory, logically impossible, or just asserted something was undetectable.
So if you include “clarity” in your def of coherence, this was missing in that comment.
Moreover, vagueness is just a feature of this discussion. I could go into detail about the attributes of such a god in the manner the Greeks did (and claim it was a result of a revelation). But I think the more general definition is quite sufficient for the purposes of this thread. It’s non-trivial too, since it more or less approximates the concept of gods lots of people had throughout centuries, so it’s not an ad hoc construct just for the purposes of the discussion.
Finally, if the only reason this definition lacks coherence is because of lack of clarity (but not self-contradiction or conceptual physical impossibility), then coherence of definition isn’t always relevant to the debate over gods’ existence, so saying that one dismisses gods just because there is no coherent definition is neither here, nor there, IMHO.
| 401 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:19:22am |
re: #398 RayFerd
Semantics. I think the original post meant fact as observable physical phenomena, but your point is taken.
| 402 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:20:43am |
re: #262 ggt
I don’t know.
I do think there is something that binds us all and makes the universe greater than the sum of it’s parts.
I don’t think science will ever explain it.
Dark matter? Ether? Dog flatulence?
| 403 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:22:03am |
re: #211 Gus
Holy granola bars, Batman. This case just got a lot more interesting. No less tragic, but a LOT more interesting.
Fuck.
| 404 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:23:46am |
re: #400 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
So if you include “clarity” in your def of coherence, this was missing in that comment.
Well, I did say something undetectable, and at no point did you offer anything detectable, either, except with the (when he wants to) modifier, which is, to me, meaningless.
I disagree with you about the definition of god— even of the greek gods— being at all coherent. Sure, they could describe some attributes of him, but they couldn’t describe how anything he did worked. I really, really, really really strongly disagree that it is more or less approximates the concept of gods that people had throughout centuries.
so saying that one dismisses gods just because there is no coherent definition is neither here, nor there, IMHO.
That’s not why I dismiss gods, that’s why I don’t even begin thinking about them, because I don’t think I’m being asked to actually consider anything. It’s just an endless trail of “How” or “What?” Like, Zeus is a guy with divine power. Okay, what’s divine power? It comes from otherworldly stuff. And how does that work? It came to him from eating his father and being born to him. Okay, how does that work? You never get to any part that is in the least bit explicable or connects with our reality.
The mainstream version would be asking me to consider the Catholic god who, through his agency, transforms the bread and wine of the altar into flesh and blood. Is this demonstrably untrue? Yeah, unless he automatically turns it back whenever it might be detected, in which case, it’s another undetectable argument. There’s no explanation of how this is possible that doesn’t just go infinitely back into explanations of non-detectable things, either.
| 405 |
ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:27:26am |
re: #376 Killgore Trout
Yeah, saw that was a Salafi. This adds a good deal more anger to what I previously had.
| 406 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:29:49am |
re: #285 ggt
God = Love
That’s what the nuns taught me and I’ve found it has worked well for me.
The protagonist of “The Parable of the Sower” announces to the world that God is change.
| 407 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:31:55am |
re: #286 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Make God, not WAR!
“In the beginning Man created God: and in the image of Man created he him.
2. And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over all the earth when it was suited to man.
3. And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God and saw that it was good.
4. And Man formed Aqualung on the dust of the ground, and a host of others likened unto his kind.
5. And these lesser men Man did cast into the void. And some were burned; and some were put apart from their kind.
6. And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule over all the earth.
7. But as all these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause man to create his God lived on within all men: even withing Aqualung.
8. And man saw it not.
9. Bur for Christ’s sake he’d better start looking.”
- Aqualung
| 408 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:34:06am |
re: #405 ProGunLiberal
Yeah, saw that was a Salafi. This adds a good deal more anger to what I previously had.
I think you were one of the few whose suspicions were correct. I was leaning towards neonazi/FN myself.
| 409 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:37:23am |
re: #404 Obdicut
Well, I did say something undetectable, and at no point did you offer anything detectable, either, except with the (when he wants to) modifier, which is, to me, meaningless.
Sorry, but we had a whole conversation on undetectable. It’s just not a part of any reasonable definition of coherence, unless you wish to introduce an ad hoc definition. Clarity, logical and physical non-contradiction are all understandable, detectability has nothing to do with coherence.
I disagree with you about the definition of god— even of the greek gods— being at all coherent. Sure, they could describe some attributes of him, but they couldn’t describe how anything he did worked.
Again, if you include such things in coherence, then coherence is not a necessarily relevant part of the existence-of-god debate. It’s a pure state-of-knowledge issue. Just because we don’t know something doesn’t make it incoherent.
This also means that, if I wanted to, I could describe a whole alternate physics of god-realm, starting with god-particles and whatnot - all through revelation of course. The way writers describe alternate universes. Sure, I would have to stop somewhere, but it’s just as true for our world.
I really, really, really really strongly disagree that it is more or less approximates the concept of gods that people had throughout centuries.
I think it does.
That’s not why I dismiss gods, that’s why I don’t even begin thinking about them, because I don’t think I’m being asked to actually consider anything. It’s just an endless trail of “How” or “What?” Like, Zeus is a guy with divine power. Okay, what’s divine power? It comes from otherworldly stuff. And how does that work? It came to him from eating his father and being born to him. Okay, how does that work? You never get to any part that is in the least bit explicable or connects with our reality.
Sorry, but that’s just as true for our reality. All definitions and explanations in the end are either axioms or are circular.
| 410 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:40:40am |
re: #369 Varek Raith
Neighborhood watch captain in Fla. shooting graduated from Osbourn
Same HS, same graduation year as me.
Freaky.
I take it you don’t remember him?
| 411 |
ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:40:48am |
re: #408 Killgore Trout
I put it as both being possible. France has a healthy far-right, but also Salafis are present across the planet.
But where did the original description of the clown come from.
All this event does is show how the Salafis can’t coexist with the rest of the world.
| 412 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:41:45am |
re: #409 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Sorry, but we had a whole conversation on undetectable. It’s just not a part of any reasonable definition of coherence, unless you wish to introduce an ad hoc definition. Clarity, logical and physical non-contradiction are all understandable, detectability has nothing to do with coherence.
I don’t think physical non-contradiction and undetectable are compatible, no.
Again, if you include such things in coherence, then coherence is not a necessarily relevant part of the existence-of-god debate. It’s a pure state-of-knowledge issue. Just because we don’t know something doesn’t make it incoherent.
What is it we don’t know here? You’ve lost me.
This also means that, if I wanted to, I could describe a whole alternate physics of god-realm, starting with god-particles and whatnot - all through revelation of course. The way writers describe alternate universes. Sure, I would have to stop somewhere, but it’s just as true for our world.
I don’t think you could, no. If you just mean you can make up arbitrary but self-consistent rules, then no, I don’t believe you can.
Sorry, but that’s just as true for our reality. All definitions and explanations in the end are either axioms or are circular.
There is a difference though, right? Between our reality and irreality?
I really think this is just making a big deal out of the word ‘coherent’, and you can certainly say I’m just using it wrong and I’m fine with that. As I said, I don’t think this is very important, because to me it’s at most asserting the solipsistic position.
| 413 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:41:59am |
re: #378 Alaska Martyrs’ Brigades
Heh. A fanatical hypocrite, who could have foreseen it.
Living a pious life, working hard, treating others with respect, and adhering to the law is hard.
Blowing shit up is fun.
I may have explained religious terrorism right there.
| 414 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:42:06am |
re: #411 ProGunLiberal
He might be a light-skinned Algerian with a facial tattoo.
| 415 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:42:24am |
re: #379 Varek Raith
Romney To Women Voters: ‘Vote For The Other Guy’ If You Want Greater Access To Birth Control
#WINNING
Will do, Mitt. Will do. I’m glad you agree with my reasoning here.
| 416 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:42:43am |
re: #413 SanFranciscoZionist
Living a pious life, working hard, treating others with respect, and adhering to the law is hard.
Blowing shit up is fun.
I may have explained religious terrorism right there.
Heh
| 417 |
Obdicut Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:42:46am |
re: #413 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, this guy is even a pale beyond, since I don’t think most people would think executing people at close range is fun.
| 418 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:44:11am |
re: #393 Killgore Trout
Here’s why I don’t take think Progress seriously anymore.
Suspected Shooter Of Jewish Schoolchildren In France Was Reportedly An Al Qaeda ExtremistComment…
Oh, the comments on this story have been rare indeed.
I especially like the ones who follow threads around waiting for someone to say ‘anti-Semitic’ in regards to the murder, so they can explain how Israel is the real anti-Semite here. They always do the dumbass little ethno-linguistic explanation, too. Copypasta in full.
| 419 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:47:06am |
re: #408 Killgore Trout
I think you were one of the few whose suspicions were correct. I was leaning towards neonazi/FN myself.
Well, one of the few HERE.
Every single wingnut in creation knew from the start that he was a Muslim fanatic with ties to al-Quaeda.
//Granted, that is their first principle with terrorism in general, and happened to be correct this time, but still, they called it.
| 420 |
ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:49:09am |
re: #414 Obdicut
True. Which then also shows rank hypocrisy.
| 421 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:49:17am |
re: #414 Obdicut
He might be a light-skinned Algerian with a facial tattoo.
Yeah. They just said, white guy with green eyes, which could easily describe about half the Algerians I’ve ever met. The tattoo…who knows? He may have one, or it might have been an error. A cord over his face, a pattern on the helmet that someone thought was skin instead…
| 422 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:50:11am |
re: #417 Obdicut
Well, this guy is even a pale beyond, since I don’t think most people would think executing people at close range is fun.
Not most, but more than I like to think about. Some days there seem to be a neverending supply of them.
| 423 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:59:33am |
re: #412 Obdicut
I don’t think physical non-contradiction and undetectable are compatible, no.
We have already discussed the different meanings of ‘undetectable’ above, so this may or may not be true depending on what undetectability you mean, but that is all beside the point since you brought up undetectably above specifically in relation to clarity (as part of the coherence of the definition), not anything else (i.e. physical non-contradiction v. undetectability is a separate issue from clarity v. undetectability).
What is it we don’t know here? You’ve lost me.
The details about the gods. Like what they’re made of, how exactly they function etc. It’s not necessary to paint the complete picture to posit their existence/define them.
I don’t think you could, no. If you just mean you can make up arbitrary but self-consistent rules, then no, I don’t believe you can.
You haven’t shown this. There seem to be no conceptual barriers towards inventing such a system, so you would actually have to show that it cannot be done.
There is a difference though, right? Between our reality and irreality?
If gods exist, they’re part of reality. So if one religiously accepts such a picture of god-realm, they also think it’s real. They would certainly accept it on faith, without the link to “actual reality”, but it seems strange to demand the explication of the full chain of causes and explanations for the god-realm if we don’t demand it for our materialistic picture of the universe.
I really think this is just making a big deal out of the word ‘coherent’, and you can certainly say I’m just using it wrong and I’m fine with that. As I said, I don’t think this is very important, because to me it’s at most asserting the solipsistic position.
And why not? I believe that concepts of god(s) and solipsism are pretty useless. In this they’re alike. But they exist and are conceivable. You can begin to “examine” them - on a purely speculative level, of course.
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