In Case You Had Any Doubt About Santorum’s Anti-Science Cred, Today He Attacked Evolution

His daddy didn’t come from no monkey!
Wingnuts • Views: 32,554

In a column for the Philadelphia Inquirer, Rick Santorum proves again that he is probably the dumbest, most determinedly ignorant right winger ever to run for President, with an attack on evolution and global warming that’s absolutely breathtaking in its mindless hostility toward science: The Elephant in the Room: Challenging Science Dogma.

DERPQuestioning the scientific consensus in pursuit of the truth is an important part of how science has advanced through the centuries. But what happens when the scientific consensus becomes an ideology that trumps the pursuit of truth? Answer: Those making legitimate inquiries are ostracized, the careers of dissenters are destroyed, and debate is stifled.

Unfortunately, I am referring not only to the current proponents of the theory of man-made global warming. In 2001, I offered a legislative amendment about teaching the subject of evolution. I caught more flak for this simple amendment than for almost anything else I championed in the Senate. What heresy did I propose? Here is the full text:

“Good science education should prepare students to distinguish the data or testable theories of science from philosophical or religious claims that are made in the name of science; and where biological evolution is taught, the curriculum should help students to understand why this subject generates so much continuing controversy, and should prepare the students to be informed participants in public discussions regarding the subject.”

It was so radical a concept that, less than an hour after it’s [sic] unveiling, liberal Democrat Ted Kennedy signed on to it. He said during the debate that my amendment’s language was “completely consistent with what represents the central values of this body. We want children to be able to speak and examine various scientific theories on the basis of all of the information that is available to them.”

My amendment passed 91-8. The next day, the High Priests of Darwinism went berserk. How dare the Senate suggest there is any controversy surrounding evolution? The amendment, they argued, was an attempt to bring God into the classroom.

Kennedy quickly recanted and vowed to have the amendment stricken from the reported language of the final bill. It wasn’t.

A recent Gallup poll found that only 14 percent of Americans agreed that “humans developed over millions of years” and “God had no part.” A Zogby poll this year found that 78 percent of Americans agreed that schoolteachers “should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.” The same poll also found that 86 percent of self-identified liberals agreed that “teachers and students should have the academic freedom to discuss both the strengths and weaknesses of evolution as a scientific theory.” But the scientific “community” claims there is no controversy, and that debate should be banned.

Santorum’s argument is that the most ignorant among us should determine what everyone’s children are taught. What could possibly go wrong?

It always strikes me as highly ironic when these wingnut numbskulls attack science by equating it with religion — because they’re implicitly admitting that religion is less valid than science. But then, logic is definitely not their strong suit.

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406 comments
1 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:24:08pm

Curse the heathen Santorum!

2 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:24:39pm

I'm sure Santorum will support the teaching of Alchemy in Chemistry classes, and the benefits of leaching and trepanning in Health classes, you know, as equally valid alternative theories.

3 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:24:51pm

'I am against the science dogma promulgated by liberal fascists", said smart Santorum.

4 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:25:30pm

re: #2 Kragar

I'm sure Santorum will support the teaching of Alchemy in Chemistry classes, and the benefits of leaching and trepanning in Health classes, you know, as equally valid alternative theories.

And so much alternative history to teach... Should we call David Irving?

5 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:26:28pm

Santorum really is dumb. Can't wait to vote for him in the primary!!!

6 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:26:47pm

It isn't the scientists who are promoting an ideology.

It isn't the science community bastardizing the definition of science to advance anti-science beliefs.

7 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:27:35pm

I'm sick of the argumentum ignoramus equal Galileo.

8 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:27:52pm
A recent Gallup poll found that only 14 percent of Americans agreed that “humans developed over millions of years” and “God had no part.”

A recent Gallup poll said Catholics use birth control.

9 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:28:17pm

If I were to call Santorum unevolved, would he be insulted?
/ (half)

10 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:28:21pm

re: #3 Alaska Martyrs' Brigades

'I am against the science dogma promulgated by liberal fascists", said smart Santorum.

You just killed so many AIs with that logic bomb.

11 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:29:02pm

this is the state of things for the next 5-10 years at least, a party that represents witch doctors and cultists


It's now only news when a republican actually believes in science at all

12 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:29:43pm

By the election, Republicans will be holding book burnings for science textbooks

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:29:51pm

re: #10 The Ghost of a Flea

You just killed so many AIs with that logic bomb.

Yes, I didn't. /

14 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:30:05pm

It doesn't matter how many Americans believe one way or another about the findings of science, science is about objective analysis, not belief.

15 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:30:29pm
A recent Gallup poll found that only 14 percent of Americans agreed that “humans developed over millions of years” and “God had no part.”

“Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers.”
- Bruce Calvert

16 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:30:33pm
17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:30:45pm

Republicans by next year will announce their plans to compel all women who marry to give over power of attorney to their husbands in [insert backwards southern state here]

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:30:50pm

re: #14 etc/init.d/mailman start

It doesn't matter how many Americans believe one way or another about the findings of science, science is about objective analysis, not belief.

No! Vox populi - vox science! /

19 allegro  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:31:27pm

re: #14 etc/init.d/mailman start

It doesn't matter how many Americans believe one way or another about the findings of science, science is about objective analysis, not belief.

Indeed. To Repubs it's facts by consensus. Not going too well for them neither.

20 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:31:30pm

re: #14 etc/init.d/mailman start

It doesn't matter how many Americans believe one way or another about the findings of science, science is about objective analysis, not belief.

in case you haven't noticed, objective analysis is the absolute mortal enemy of the republican party

see: every single thing they say about economy, science, government...

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:31:38pm

re: #14 etc/init.d/mailman start

It doesn't matter how many Americans believe one way or another about the findings of science, science is about objective analysis, not belief.

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away”.
- Philip K. Dick

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:31:51pm

re: #16 MikeySDCA

Name two.

Mah head hurtz! Nobody said there would be math :(/

23 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:32:21pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

A recent Gallup poll said Catholics use birth control.

Nice how he leaves out the number of people who think it did take millions of years, but still think god had a part. Those people actually do accept evolution. Not the Rick wants to acknowledge them.

24 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:32:33pm

re: #19 allegro

Indeed. To Repubs it's facts by consensus. Not going too well for them neither.

"we all believed she was a witch because she didn't marry, because we kept telling each other so, so we burned her all up at the stake!" -Republican consensus

25 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:32:40pm

Miasma versus Germ Theory of Disease!

Plague Doctor sez: Fumigate...and Teach the Controversy!

26 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:33:05pm

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -Isaac Asimov, Column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

27 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:33:17pm

Science --zoology specifically & much needed cuteness break!

and therefore, techincally, not OT!

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:33:26pm

HIV or no HIV? Controversy!

29 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:33:47pm
30 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:34:00pm

re: #2 Kragar

I'm sure Santorum will support the teaching of Alchemy in Chemistry classes, and the benefits of leaching and trepanning in Health classes, you know, as equally valid alternative theories.

Alchemy -- Chemistry

Astrology -- Astronomy

Magick -- Physics

As I teach kids, all sciences have their evil twins.

31 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:34:10pm

I love how he loses with Catholics, but wins with the Evangelicals. He be a freak.

32 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:34:53pm

re: #19 allegro

Indeed. To Repubs it's facts by consensus. Not going too well for them neither.

Not even consensus. Some opinions are automatically more Truthy than others, and more heavily weighted a creating the "facts."

33 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:35:40pm

In nomine Darwin, et Dawkins, et Spiritu Crocoduck... ramen.

34 allegro  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:35:52pm

re: #31 Oh geeze.

I love how he loses with Catholics, but wins with the Evangelicals. He be a freak.

That he "wins" with any group is deeply disturbing.

35 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:36:10pm

“ It is usually when men are at their most religious that they behave with the least sense and the greatest cruelty.”
- Ilka Chase

See: Santorum.

36 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:36:25pm

re: #33 High Priest of Darwinism

In nomine Darwin, et Dawkins, et Spiritu Crocoduck... ramen.

Blah!

(=amen)

37 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:36:29pm
38 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:36:38pm

re: #31 Oh geeze.

I love how he loses with Catholics, but wins with the Evangelicals. He be a freak.

Your average catholic is aware that their power structure is corrupt, your average catholic has some degree of cynicism about the vatican (as they should, they're fucking criminals)

whereas your average evangelical believes their own power structure should replace the government of the USA


find me a mainstream catholic who believes the pope should be our president

but that's exactly what evangelicals want

39 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:37:00pm

re: #31 Oh geeze.

I love how he loses with Catholics, but wins with the Evangelicals. He be a freak.

That's what makes me laugh. He's a fundamentalist Catholic who walks the Opus Dei line in every respect and mainstream Catholics can't stand him. They think he sounds like an evangelical Protestant.

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:37:55pm

re: #34 allegro

That he "wins" with any group is deeply disturbing.

he wins with cultists, because cult!


remember, these are people who support assaults on minors because it is written in their holy text that gays are bad


21st century witch burning

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:39:14pm

“ History aside, the almost universal opinion that one’s own religious convictions are the reasoned outcome of a dispassionate evaluation of all the major alternatives is almost demonstrably false for humanity in general. If that really were the genesis of most people’s convictions, then one would expect the major faiths to be distributed more or less randomly or evenly over the globe. But in fact they show a very strong tendency to cluster...which illustrates what we all suspected anyway: that social forces are the primary determinants of religious belief for people in general. To decide scientific questions by appeal to religious orthodoxy would therefore be to put social forces in place of empirical evidence..."
- Paul Churchland

That one's for Inhofe.

42 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:39:21pm

re: #40 windupbird is in the gravity well

he wins with cultists, because cult!

remember, these are people who support assaults on minors because it is written in their holy text that gays are bad

21st century witch burning

Additionally, taking care of the environment is for pussies because God gave it to us, so we can shit all over it and he'll take care of the mess.

43 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:40:01pm

re: #42 Kragar

Additionally, taking care of the environment is for pussies because God gave it to us, so we can shit all over it and he'll take care of the mess.

Cult leaders don't worry about the environment, they've got bigger witches to fry

44 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:42:15pm

re: #39 Lidane

That's what makes me laugh. He's a fundamentalist Catholic who walks the Opus Dei line in every respect and mainstream Catholics can't stand him. They think he sounds like an evangelical Protestant.

Opus Dei is a bat-shit crazy in my eyes.

Never heard of them until I was grown-up and the DaVinci Code was published.

Definitely not normal every-day Catholic.

45 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:43:56pm

These fundamentalists and their fairy tales have a tiring effect on me. I always feel like I need a shower and a nap after reading one of their deliberately ignorant screeds.

46 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:44:05pm

re: #42 Kragar

Additionally, taking care of the environment is for pussies because God gave it to us, so we can shit all over it and he'll take care of the mess.

...because they don't realize that "stewardship" doesn't mean "go ahead, ride the bastard into the ground."

47 Big Joe  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:45:12pm

re: #45 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

These fundamentalists and their fairy tales have a tiring effect on me. I always feel like I need a shower and a nap after reading one of their deliberately ignorant screeds.

I just pour a drink.

48 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:46:36pm

GOP leaders say its time to skip the rules they made and tell the mob to behave themselves

Republican officials and strategists, increasingly weary of the divisive presidential-primary fight, stepped forward Wednesday to call for the party to unify behind Mitt Romney and for his rivals to accept his nomination as inevitable.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush came off the sidelines and endorsed Mr. Romney for president Wednesday, a day after Mr. Romney's sweeping win in the Illinois primary. The endorsement was one of several signs that the party's leaders would put pressure on the remaining candidates to bring the nominating contest to a close.

But Mr. Romney's own team threatened to undercut that emerging effort by giving rivals new ammunition to attack the governor as a political opportunist.

49 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:47:23pm

Ah, Rick must have just read the "debunked years ago" Jonah Goldberg book. Right is left and Progressive is bad.

As usual, the Whacko Conservative's are way behind.

50 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:47:56pm

I don't believe the 14% quoted is correct; believing or understanding evolution.

I think the number is higher from polls I have seen, although the distinction between believing versus understanding may be more problematic.

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:48:48pm

re: #47 Ghost of Tom Joad

I just pour a drink.

Same here.

Religious Fundamentalism: The leading cause of alcoholism, in others.

52 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:49:27pm

re: #23 High Priest of Darwinism

Nice how he leaves out the number of people who think it did take millions of years, but still think god had a part. Those people actually do accept evolution. Not the Rick wants to acknowledge them.

You mean, like, the Church itself?

53 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:51:44pm
A recent Gallup poll found that only 14 percent of Americans agreed that “humans developed over millions of years” and “God had no part.” A Zogby poll this year found that 78 percent of Americans agreed that schoolteachers “should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.” The same poll also found that 86 percent of self-identified liberals agreed that “teachers and students should have the academic freedom to discuss both the strengths and weaknesses of evolution as a scientific theory.” But the scientific “community” claims there is no controversy, and that debate should be banned.

Is Santorum really dumb enough to conflate a lack of scientific controversy with a public controversy ginned up by religious conservatives, or is he deliberately constructing a lie?

54 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:52:30pm

During his concession speech last? night, Rich started railing against climate change.

Then said he would not change with the climate.

He said change and climate together so many times I lost track.

Horrible speaker.

55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:53:17pm

re: #50 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

I don't believe the 14% quoted is correct; believing or understanding evolution.

I think the number is higher from polls I have seen, although the distinction between believing versus understanding may be more problematic.

The additional qualifier being "God had no part.” According to Gallup, that number was at 16% in 2010.

56 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:53:27pm
“should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.”

What scientific evidence against it holds up against peer review?

The Bible cannot be used as a source.

And ..... GO!

57 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:54:00pm

re: #53 jaunte

Is Santorum really dumb enough to conflate a lack of scientific controversy with a public controversy ginned up by religious conservatives, or is he deliberately constructing a lie?

It's an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

His brain is so twisted by political wants and aspirations, fantasies of the perfect future and his version of god . . .

I swear he is hiding some deep secret. He doth protest too much.

58 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:54:45pm

re: #55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The additional qualifier being "God had no part.” According to Gallup, that number was at 16% in 2010.

Define God.

Do the pollsters ever do that before people answer the question?

59 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:55:36pm

re: #57 ggt

He's using the same deliberate imprecision of language that gave us the "It's only a theory" argument.

60 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:56:30pm

Schools certainly should not teach Darwin's theory of evolution. They should teach modern synthesis.

61 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:56:44pm

re: #58 ggt

Define God.

Do the pollsters ever do that before people answer the question?

Half the fun of conducting a poll is writing the misleading, biased question to fill your preconceived notions!

62 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:57:05pm

re: #56 Kragar

What scientific evidence against it holds up against peer review?

The Bible cannot be used as a source.

And ... GO!

There really is no scientific evidence against evolution, and a freaking mountain of evidence for it. Santorum probably thinks "intelligent design" is scientific evidence, when it's nothing more than repackaged creationism.

This kind of stuff makes America a laughingstock to the rest of the world.

63 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:57:20pm

re: #23 High Priest of Darwinism

Nice how he leaves out the number of people who think it did take millions of years, but still think god had a part. Those people actually do accept evolution. Not the Rick wants to acknowledge them.

They accept that science knows stuff (even the Pope), but still don't question why their god took 10 billion years to explode enough supernova to create the elements to eventually form the earth, then another 4 billion to tweak every little random mutation selectively so as to result in humans some 150,000 years or so ago, (after extincting the dinosaurs very deliberately) then decided just 2000 years ago to let everyone know that all this was for them, including all the trillions of stars and planets out there that even the Mormons could never occupy after death.


///

64 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:57:35pm

re: #53 jaunte

yep. He's only in this position because they hate Romney. Any other situation he'd be toast. It's quite embarrassing for the GOP and they damned well know it.

65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:57:37pm

re: #53 jaunte

¿Por qué no los dos?

66 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:57:41pm

I think it's really difficult to get a correct answer to a intellectual question when the concept of G-d is involved.

You'll get an emotional answer to an intellectual question.

Do the pollsters account for this?

67 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:58:36pm

re: #64 Oh geeze.

yep. He's only in this position because they hate Romney. Any other situation he'd be toast. It's quite embarrassing for the GOP and they damned well know it.

Does anyone really like Romney?

68 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:58:48pm

re: #55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The additional qualifier being "God had no part.” According to Gallup, that number was at 16% in 2010.

Which comes close to estimates of atheists/agnostics at 10-15%

69 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 5:58:54pm

re: #56 Kragar

What scientific evidence against it holds up against peer review?

The Bible cannot be used as a source.

And ... GO!

STOP OPPRESSING ME YOU ISLAMIC ATHEIST!!!

70 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:00:26pm

re: #67 ggt

Does anyone really like Romney?

Regular GOP I think can totally tolerate him. He's no different than any pandering politician. They've seen this before and tolerated it willingly.

But for many reasons, they just do not like him.

SISTER SARAH TO THE RESCUE

71 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:01:12pm

re: #70 Oh geeze.

Regular GOP I think can totally tolerate him. He's no different than any pandering politician. They've seen this before and tolerated it willingly.

But for many reasons, they just do not like him.

SISTER SARAH TO THE RESCUE

BLAH!

72 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:02:02pm

re: #71 ggt

BLAH!

Racist.

73 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:02:56pm

re: #71 ggt

BLAH!

I predict a fun shit show. I don't know. The base will not vote for him, and the mods, I don't think they will either. It's a paying gig though, the losing candidate tends to go on and make more $.

74 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:03:40pm

re: #67 ggt

Does anyone really like Romney?

The bacteria that live in his intestines think he's pretty awesome.

75 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:04:25pm

More than just "interesting"

76 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:04:27pm

re: #67 ggt

Does anyone really like Romney?

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:05:25pm

"Funny how science gets it all RIGHT when you want a computer, medical science to eliminate smallpox or treat your "erectile disfunction," anti-lock brakes to save your life--but all evolutionists--using the scientific method you take advantage of all day long--are wrong."
-Rob Mickus

78 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:05:50pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

The bacteria that live in his intestines think he's pretty awesome.

Gut flora have infamously low standards.

79 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:06:12pm

re: #60 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

Schools certainly should not teach Darwin's theory of evolution. They should teach modern synthesis.

How about they teach Evo-Devo.

80 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:06:22pm

re: #78 The Ghost of a Flea

Bottomdwellers.

81 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:07:11pm

re: #63 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

They accept that science knows stuff (even the Pope), but still don't question why their god took 10 billion years to explode enough supernova to create the elements to eventually form the earth, then another 4 billion to tweak every little random mutation selectively so as to result in humans some 150,000 years or so ago, (after extincting the dinosaurs very deliberately) then decided just 2000 years ago to let everyone know that all this was for them, including all the trillions of stars and planets out there that even the Mormons could never occupy after death.

///

God works in mysterious ways.

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:07:47pm

re: #67 ggt

Does anyone really like Romney?

I know one person...

83 erik_t  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:08:06pm
84 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:08:33pm

re: #78 The Ghost of a Flea

Gut flora have infamously low standards.

But are willing to screw with your brain.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:09:50pm

re: #81 etc/init.d/mailman start

God works in mysterious ways.

Type that, plus "Jim Jefferies" into a youtube search.

86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:10:30pm

re: #83 erik_t

Cheers!

Drinking Beer Could Prevent Osteoporosis Risk in Older Women

Now if only I were an older woman, I'd be invincible.

87 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:11:10pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Type that, plus "Jim Jefferies" into a youtube search.

Kudos.

88 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:11:13pm

Anyone here from Tennessee?

Governor Bill Haslam: Veto the creationist "Academic Freedom Bill"

WHERE DOES THE BILL COME FROM?
This bill is based on model legislation crafted by the Center for Science and Culture.

WHO IS THE C.S.C.?
The Center for Science and Culture is an overtly religious group whose stated goals are the insertion of Intelligent Design into science classes across the country, and to drastically decrease acceptance of the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

89 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:11:27pm

re: #81 etc/init.d/mailman start

God works in mysterious ways.

God works in mysterious ways, but is incapable of working over billions of years using observable scientific phenomenon, preferring instead to use parlor tricks to impress the yokels.

90 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:11:41pm

Maddow's going through Romney's lies. This could go on well into the wee hours of the morning...

91 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:12:35pm

re: #88 jaunte

Anyone here from Tennessee?

Governor Bill Haslam: Veto the creationist "Academic Freedom Bill"

I swear, Japan, China, India, Russia, and all other countries I failed to mention laugh. And are planning the pounce. (already occuring)

92 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:12:43pm

Creationists, IDists and the religious right are as shallow in their epistemology of science processes as they are of the results of science.

They learn just enough about science to be dangerous.

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:13:17pm

re: #88 jaunte

WHO IS THE C.S.C.?
The Center for Science and Culture is an overtly religious group whose stated goals are the insertion of Intelligent Design into science classes across the country, and to drastically decrease acceptance of the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

Job well done. Time to call it a day. Everybody go home.

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:13:50pm

This shit is in the News so much, I can see it being addressed in some form in a high school class --perhaps current events, critical thinking or social studies.

But, not science. It is NOT SCIENCE.

Perhaps we should have a class for all the grown-ups-- "WHAT IS SCIENCE?"

but then we'd have to have a class: "WHAT IS LOGIC"

I don't see it happening.

95 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:14:45pm

re: #92 etc/init.d/mailman start

Creationists, IDists and the religious right are as shallow in their epistemology of science processes as they are of the results of science.

They learn just enough about science to be dangerous.

Yet everytime they mess-up a recipe in the kitchen they use the scientific process to figure out what they did wrong. --no?

i.e. -don't put metal in the microwave

96 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:15:05pm

re: #89 Kragar

God works in mysterious ways, but is incapable of working over billions of years using observable scientific phenomenon, preferring instead to use parlor tricks to impress the yokels.

Yokels are impressed by magic tricks, polysyllabic words and shiny objects.

97 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:15:33pm

re: #94 ggt

Perhaps we should have a class for all the grown-ups-- "WHAT IS SCIENCE?"

but then we'd have to have a class: "WHAT IS LOGIC"

To proceed down that path, one must begin with "WHAT IS CLASS?"

98 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:15:37pm

re: #96 etc/init.d/mailman start

Yokels are impressed by magic tricks, polysyllabic words and shiny objects.

Hence, DWTS.

and The Book of Kells.

99 Big Joe  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:15:43pm

re: #83 erik_t

Cheers!

Drinking Beer Could Prevent Osteoporosis Risk in Older Women

Hmmm, how do I get Kaiser Permanente to give me 90 pints of SNPA for a $20 co-pay.

100 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:16:07pm

re: #96 etc/init.d/mailman start

Yokels are impressed by magic tricks, polysyllabic words and shiny objects.

HEY! I got dates that way! Don't knock it!

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:16:15pm

re: #97 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

To proceed down that path, one must begin with "WHAT IS CLASS?"

brushing your teeth, oh geez, having teeth.

(that's bad, I know)

102 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:16:29pm

Evolution is miraculous. Evolution has produced both Bono impersonators, and the people who publish ambush interviews of them.

103 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:16:34pm

re: #94 ggt

This shit is in the News so much, I can see it being addressed in some form in a high school class --perhaps current events, critical thinking or social studies.

But, not science. It is NOT SCIENCE.

Perhaps we should have a class for all the grown-ups-- "WHAT IS SCIENCE?"

but then we'd have to have a class: "WHAT IS LOGIC"

I don't see it happening.

Philosophy of Science does exactly that.

104 erik_t  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:17:27pm

re: #99 Ghost of Tom Joad

Hmmm, how do I get Kaiser Permanente to give me 90 pints of SNPA for a $20 co-pay.

BEER PANELS!!!1

105 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:17:39pm

re: #95 ggt

Yet everytime they mess-up a recipe in the kitchen they use the scientific process to figure out what they did wrong. --no?

i.e. -don't put metal in the microwave

Putting metal in the nuker is fun. Putting CD/DVDs in the nuker is even more fun.

Sparkly.

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:17:45pm

re: #99 Ghost of Tom Joad

Hmmm, how do I get Kaiser Permanente to give me 90 pints of SNPA for a $20 co-pay.

You get them to do it, and I might just consider a sex/identity change.

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:18:25pm

re: #103 etc/init.d/mailman start

Philosophy of Science does exactly that.

Philosophy?

Who the hell teaches that anymore?

108 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:18:28pm

re: #97 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

To proceed down that path, one must begin with "WHAT IS CLASS?"

Have we settled "WHAT IS IS"?

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:18:54pm

re: #102 jaunte

Evolution is miraculous. Evolution has produced both Bono impersonators, and the people who publish ambush interviews of them.

That's where you lose me, because I am convinced both are acts of Satan.
/

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:19:02pm

re: #105 etc/init.d/mailman start

Putting metal in the nuker is fun. Putting CD/DVDs in the nuker is even more fun.

Sparkly.

I never got passed putting Peeps in the microwave.

I did enjoy it tho.

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:19:56pm

re: #108 etc/init.d/mailman start

Have we settled "WHAT IS IS"?

a State of Being.

Singular, 3rd person, objective?

112 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:19:58pm

re: #99 Ghost of Tom Joad

Hmmm, how do I get Kaiser Permanente to give me 90 pints of SNPA for a $20 co-pay.

Would that be number 4?

Acronym Definition
SNPA Securing Networks with PIX and ASA
SNPA Southern Newspaper Publishers Association
SNPA Subnetwork Point of Attachment
SNPA Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (Sierra Nevada Brewing Co)
SNPA Société Nationale des Pétroles d'Aquitaine (French: National Oil Company of Aquitaine; France)
SNPA Scottish Newspaper Publishers Association
SNPA Substantial New Programme of Action
SNPA Shenandoah National Park Association
SNPA Syndicat National des Prestataires de Services d'Accueil (French: National Association of Home Service Providers)
SNPA Syndicat National des Plastiques Alvéolaires (French: National Union of Foamed Plastics)
SNPA Syndicat National des Exploitants de Centres de Pilotage Automobile (French: National Union of Automobile Driving Center Operators)
SNPA Société Normande de Protection Aux Animaux (France: Norman Society of Animal Protection)
SNPA Sports Nautiques et de Plein Air (French: Outdoor and Water Sports)

113 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:20:05pm

More See "Too Much" Religious Talk by Politicians

Santorum Voters Disagree

Nearly four-in-ten Americans (38%) now say there has been too much expression of religious faith and prayer from political leaders, while 30% say there has been too little. In 2010, more said there was too little than too much religious expression from politicians (37% vs. 29%). The percentage saying there is too much expression of religious faith by politicians has increased across party lines, but this view remains far more widespread among Democrats than Republicans.

114 erik_t  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:20:56pm

re: #112 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Delicious and relatively economical. I recommend it.

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:21:24pm

I talked with a man today who told me that the revolution was coming in this country. No doubt --in my lifetime. Class warfare.

Not someone I expected to hear such things from.

Strange ideas out there all around.

116 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:21:35pm

re: #107 ggt

Philosophy?

Who the hell teaches that anymore?

I've heard there is a species of prof that while endangered is still around called 'Philosophers'. I hope I spelled that right.

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:22:17pm

re: #116 etc/init.d/mailman start

I've heard there is a species of prof that while endangered is still around called 'Philosophers'. I hope I spelled that right.

Yes, they are few and far between and I do fear for the world without them.

118 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:22:21pm

re: #94 ggt

Logic and Critical Inquiry classes should be required in schools. So should classes on Ethics teaching people about people like Kant and Mill.

119 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:22:25pm

re: #112 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Obviously we need a class on ETLA.

120 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:23:42pm

re: #119 Kragar

Obviously we need a class on ETLA.

Eat The Lettuce Always?

121 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:23:53pm

the scientific evidence against it

which would be what, exactly?

122 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:24:04pm

OT - Good news from Anna Torv's homeland
Estonia makes human trafficking illegal

Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:27pm
TALLINN, Estonia (AP) — Estonia's Parliament passed legislation on Wednesday banning human trafficking and making the Baltic nation the last EU country to enact such laws.

The lawmakers voted 91-0 in favor, with 10 members absent. President Toomas Hendrik Ilves is expected to make the bill law by approving it in the coming weeks.

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:24:21pm

re: #118 Lidane

Logic and Critical Inquiry classes should be required in schools. So should classes on Ethics teaching people about people like Kant and Mill.

In my Perfect World: Greek, Latin, Logic and Rhetoric would be required in High School.

I'd add an overview of the Religions of the World in Social Studies/History and a discussion of the differences and similarities of the Oriental and the Occidental way of thinking and histories.

But hey, as it is I guess we should be happy kids can do math and read.

124 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:24:44pm

A Zogby poll this year found that

All Polls That I Disagree With Are Plots By Liberals

125 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:25:40pm

re: #120 etc/init.d/mailman start

Eat The Lettuce Always?

Extended Three Letter Acronyms

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:25:58pm

re: #124 engineer cat

A Zogby poll this year found that

All Polls That I Disagree With Are Plots By Liberals

Is that from the "I can't understand it, so it must be a Liberal, Muslim, Socialist Conspiracy" school of thought?

127 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:26:31pm

re: #119 Kragar

Obviously we need a class on ETLA.

Believe it or not you stumped Google on that one.

128 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:27:25pm

re: #113 jaunte

The sad thing is it's not the expression of faith that is a problem, but the munted world view of certain politicians, pundits and preachers that were born from or revolve around ass backwards myths that aren't even in their Fundie Sourcebook. A munted world view of ass backwards myths that they're trying to shove down everyone's throats.

129 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:27:31pm

re: #127 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Believe it or not you stumped Google on that one.

THE DAY IS MINE!

130 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:28:13pm

re: #121 engineer cat

the scientific evidence against it

which would be what, exactly?

The organization of fossils in the geological record.
Blood vessels in T-Rex bones.
Mini Grand Canyons made in days by the Mt. St. Helen's eruption.
...

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:28:18pm

re: #128 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The sad thing is it's not the expression of faith that is a problem, but the munted world view of certain politicians, pundits and preachers that were born from or revolve around ass backwards myths that aren't even in their Fundie Sourcebook. A munted world view of ass backwards myths that their trying to shove down everyone's throats.

Power! Control!

koolaid!

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:29:02pm

re: #129 Kragar

THE DAY IS MINE!

My sincere congratulations!

I am in awe.

133 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:29:16pm

re: #123 ggt

In my Perfect World: Greek, Latin, Logic and Rhetoric would be required in High School.

I'd add an overview of the Religions of the World in Social Studies/History and a discussion of the differences and similarities of the Oriental and the Occidental way of thinking and histories.

But hey, as it is I guess we should be happy kids can do math and read.

Greek, Latin, Logic, Rhetoric and Geek.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:30:22pm

Across the nation, Jesuits are crying into their Scotch.

135 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:30:27pm

re: #132 ggt

My sincere congratulations!

I am in awe.

I'm in my chair.

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:30:37pm

Anyone know the history of this video?

It's rather brutal. Came in a email about the evils of texting and driving.

137 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:30:56pm

re: #130 etc/init.d/mailman start

The organization of fossils in the geological record.
Blood vessels in T-Rex bones.
Mini Grand Canyons made in days by the Mt. St. Helen's eruption.
...

yes, but the full sentence is

“should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.”

138 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:31:06pm

re: #121 engineer cat

the scientific evidence against it

which would be what, exactly?

Um, duh!

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:32:03pm

re: #28 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

HIV or no HIV? Controversy!

You think you're kidding? Actually, the 'controversy' is "Does HIV really cause AIDS?"

140 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:32:26pm

if we teach americans logic, how will that prepare them for their destiny as a nation of non unionized service workers?

141 Gus  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:32:32pm

re: #102 jaunte

Evolution is miraculous. Evolution has produced both Bono impersonators, and the people who publish ambush interviews of them.

Image: Bono-Etch-A-Sketch.jpg

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:32:45pm

re: #30 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Alchemy -- Chemistry

Astrology -- Astronomy

Magick -- Physics

As I teach kids, all sciences have their evil twins.

And then, as Granny Weatherwax would point out, there is Chiropracty.

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:33:09pm

re: #138 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Um, duh!

God uses pen and paper?

As I understand it, the bible is the word of God, INTERPRETED BY MEN! Flawed, misogynistic, bigoted men about a 2 thousand years ago in a different language. Then, sorted and tranched for political purposes by a Monarch and council of MEN.

Your mileage may vary.

144 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:34:45pm

re: #136 ggt

Anyone know the history of this video?

It's rather brutal. Came in a email about the evils of texting and driving.

Seems that ice could account for all that happened.

145 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:34:50pm

re: #138 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Um, duh!

The definition of theology.

146 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:34:54pm

etch a sketch of SEAMUS. This is classic, and I believe the chick did it herself.

147 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:34:57pm

re: #143 ggt

You're obviously one of the damned. I'll pray for you, hussy.
///

148 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:35:02pm
149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:36:05pm

re: #148 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Up is Down in the Brave New World. .

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:36:23pm

re: #143 ggt

God uses pen and paper?

God, according to Jewish tradition, writes in black fire on white fire.

151 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:36:53pm

re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist

God, according to Jewish tradition, writes in black fire on white fire.

Well, that is a feat!

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:37:06pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

You think you're kidding? Actually, the 'controversy' is "Does HIV really cause AIDS?"

No, that's actually one of variants.

153 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:38:07pm

re: #146 Oh geeze.

etch a sketch of SEAMUS. This is classic, and I believe the chick did it herself.

Pfft. It wasn't that bad. Remember, it was AIRTIGHT!

154 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:38:13pm

re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist

God, according to Jewish tradition, writes in black fire on white fire.

Sounds like a description of a black hole. Smart people.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:39:55pm

re: #151 ggt

Well, that is a feat!

So is having made a pair of blacksmith's tongs, without previously having had a pair of blacksmith's tongs, which, according to tradition, God also did in the days following the rest of creation.

156 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:40:04pm

re: #137 engineer cat

yes, but the full sentence is

“should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.”

That is some of the 'Creation Science' evidence they believe refutes Evilution.

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:40:33pm

re: #154 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Sounds like a description of a black hole. Smart people.

Interesting. I had never thought of that. Thanks.

158 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:40:56pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

So is having made a pair of blacksmith's tongs, without previously having had a pair of blacksmith's tongs, which, according to tradition, God also did in the days following the rest of creation.

STOP, I'm having a hard enough time wrapping my brain around the black and white fire concept.

159 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:41:20pm

re: #154 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Sounds like a description of a black hole. Smart people.

Only if all you want to write is "O"

160 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:41:59pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

And then, as Granny Weatherwax would point out, there is Chiropracty.

At least one more TP book is coming.

161 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:42:11pm

re: #159 Obdicut

Only if all you want to write is "O"

Oh, like a smoke ring

Unless you are Gandolf.

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:43:23pm

re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist

God, according to Jewish tradition, writes in black fire on white fire.

Wait. God needs to write? Does he forget?

163 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:43:53pm

re: #162 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

Wait. God needs to write? Does he forget?

No, humans do.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:44:24pm

re: #162 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

Wait. God needs to write? Does he forget?

This is Judaism. Everyone writes.

165 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:45:05pm

re: #163 ggt

No, humans do.

Humans have paper for that.

166 zora  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:46:29pm

re: #83 erik_t

Cheers!

Drinking Beer Could Prevent Osteoporosis Risk in Older Women

i'll drink to that. i'm not "older" yet but i want a head start./

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:47:34pm

Remember when we all thought Mike Huckabee was the worst Talibangelical goon to run for POTUS? :sigh: Good times.

168 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:47:46pm

re: #165 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

Humans have paper for that.

fire consumes paper

169 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:47:53pm

re: #166 zora

i'll drink to that. i'm not "older" yet but i want a head start./

I can give you some of my years. I didn't use the '70s ones much.

170 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:48:23pm

re: #168 ggt

fire consumes paper

Water puts out fire.

171 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:48:52pm

re: #165 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

Humans have paper for that.

Yeah, but we humans barely even read anymore. If any god wants to reveal himself to me, it'll be best done in the after-credits scene in the Avengers...

172 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:49:51pm

re: #168 ggt

fire consumes paper

Scissors beat fire.

wait...

173 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:50:23pm

re: #170 etc/init.d/mailman start

Water puts out fire.

Brawny absorbs water...

174 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:50:57pm

re: #170 etc/init.d/mailman start

Water puts out fire.

Scissors, um... er.... THIS GAME IS STUPID!!!
///

175 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:51:25pm
176 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:51:30pm

re: #168 ggt

fire consumes paper

lawyer sues fire, scissors, and water

177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:00pm

re: #176 engineer cat

lawyer sues fire, scissors, and water

fire, paper, water and scissors appeal

178 labman57  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:13pm

Evolution is a verifiable fact. It is the mechanism through which it occurs -- natural selection -- that comprises the theory.

People who do not understand how science works seem to think that a "theory" is somehow lacking in power and validity.  Scientific theories are our best explanation for an event or phenomenon based on the available evidence, i.e., a theory tells us HOW it happens.  Theories have generally been subjected to rigorous testing and represent the consensus of the scientific community, whereas a hypothesis is a possible explanation for a specific observation and has not necessarily been extensively tested.

Calling something a theory does not cheapen or weaken it.  On the contrary, the term "theory" gives it legitimacy as something that is scientifically testable and that has been rigorously examined either mathematically or empirically to the point that the available evidence overwhelming supports it.

Quantum mechanics, special and general relativity, molecular kinetics -- all THEORIES!

Theories are based on the best empirical EVIDENCE available, not PROOF. There is an incredible wealth of evidence -- both geological and biochemical -- to support evolution by natural selection.

Creationism and ID are faith-based concepts. Their "evidence" consists of the allegories provided in the Bible, nothing more.

I actually have no problem with the idea of discussing the merits of Creationism or ID in the public school classroom. It would make a fine topic for discussion or debate in a social studies course on Religions in Society. But this topic has no business in a biology classroom, since science is based on verifiable evidence along with empirically and mathematically testable hypotheses, whereas religious beliefs are by definition faith-based.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:40pm

re: #177 ggt

fire, paper, water and scissors appeal

And then the Angel of Death kills the...

Wait, wrong song.

180 compound_Idaho  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:44pm

Abortion foes do live ultrasounds in Idaho Capitol

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

181 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:52:48pm

re: #138 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Um, duh!

re: #159 Obdicut

Only if all you want to write is "O"

Not according to Susskind. There is a lot more written than duh!

182 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:53:39pm

re: #176 engineer cat

lawyer sues fire, scissors, and water

A black hole beats everything in the universe..( hopefully lawyers also )

183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:05pm

re: #180 compound_Idaho

Abortion foes do live ultrasounds in Idaho Capitol

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

omg

184 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:11pm

re: #178 labman57

Evolution is a verifiable fact. It is the mechanism through which it occurs -- natural selection -- that comprises the theory.

People who do not understand how science works seem to think that a "theory" is somehow lacking in power and validity.  Scientific theories are our best explanation for an event or phenomenon based on the available evidence, i.e., a theory tells us HOW it happens.  Theories have generally been subjected to rigorous testing and represent the consensus of the scientific community, whereas a hypothesis is a possible explanation for a specific observation and has not necessarily been extensively tested.

Calling something a theory does not cheapen or weaken it.  On the contrary, the term "theory" gives it legitimacy as something that is scientifically testable and that has been rigorously examined either mathematically or empirically to the point that the available evidence overwhelming supports it.

Quantum mechanics, special and general relativity, molecular kinetics -- all THEORIES!

Theories are based on the best empirical EVIDENCE available, not PROOF. There is an incredible wealth of evidence -- both geological and biochemical -- to support evolution by natural selection.

Creationism and ID are faith-based concepts. Their "evidence" consists of the allegories provided in the Bible, nothing more.

I actually have no problem with the idea of discussing the merits of Creationism or ID in the public school classroom. It would make a fine topic for discussion or debate in a social studies course on Religions in Society. But this topic has no business in a biology classroom, since science is based on verifiable evidence along with empirically and mathematically testable hypotheses, whereas religious beliefs are by definition faith-based.

But this is all in theory, right? I'll stick with Jesus.

/

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:17pm

"People" seem to confuse hypothesis (educated guess) with theory.

186 labman57  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:25pm

That's the great thing about faith-based proclamations.  No verifiable facts or empirical evidence are required.

"God works in mysterious ways" is a religious rationalization for what these folks really mean:  "I have no freaking clue how natural phenomena happen, nor how the process of scientific observation, experimentation, analysis, deduction, and discovery further our understanding of the universe".

Religion was originally developed to answer many of the questions that science could not, as well as to bring a sense of order by controlling the behavior of the populace.  As mankind's scientific knowledge grew, some religious folks felt uneasy and insecure, fearing that God was being displaced by science, and so they attempted to undermine and discredit both the science and the scientist.  This self-serving practice by religious extremists continues to this day.

Organized religion plays a valuable, useful role in the lives of many people throughout the world.  It can bring communities together in times of hardship, it can help people cope with personal tragedy, it can provide a means of emotionally and financially assisting the downtrodden.  But all too often, it is used to denigrate and/or persecute the non-believer.

If you happen to be a believer, wonderful.  If you are an atheist or agnostic, that is equally wonderful.  Both points of view should be respected, and neither should be so insecure that they feel the need to convert or condemn the other. Furthermore, there is no inherent conflict between spirituality and science -- there is plenty of room for both to co-exist in the human psyche.

Most importantly though, people who belong to any of the myriad of religions that exist in this country should observe their tenets and practice their rituals in the comfort of their homes, their sanctuaries, and their private schools and not try to impose their particular religious values and morals onto the rest of society via political lobbying or by proselytizing religious dogma in public schools.

187 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:25pm

re: #173 High Priest of Darwinism

Brawny absorbs water...

Somehow "Fire, Water, Brawny" doesn't have the same ring to it that "Scissors, Paper, Rock" does.

188 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:54:56pm

re: #178 labman57

I actually have no problem with the idea of discussing the merits of Creationism or ID in the public school classroom.

I sure as hell do if they're being presented in a science class.

Creationism and ID are not science. They should be taught in a mythology class, or a religious studies class, not in biology or any other science class.

189 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:55:02pm

re: #168 ggt

fire consumes paper

No, no, no. You're doing it wrong. Here's how you have to answer:

Atheist: Well, observable data...blah, blah, blah...rational...blah, blah, blah...Occam's Razor...blah, blah, blah...logic....blah, blah, blah...

Believer: Um, no. God. Because, that's why. I win!

See? Easy peasy. ;)

190 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:56:07pm

re: #180 compound_Idaho

Abortion foes do live ultrasounds in Idaho Capitol

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

What is this I don't even

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:56:22pm

Actually, Brawny absorbs koolaid too!

192 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:57:23pm

re: #168 ggt

fire consumes paper

Scissors cut paper
Paper covers rock
Rock crushes lizard
Lizard poisons Spock
Spock smashes scissors
Scissors decapitate lizard
Lizard eats paper
Paper disproves Spock
Spock vaporizes rock
Rock crushes scissors

193 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:57:41pm

re: #188 Lidane

I sure as hell do if they're being presented in a science class.

Creationism and ID are not science. They should be taught in a mythology class, or a religious studies class, not in biology or any other science class.

They shouldn't be taught in class, unless as a fodder for critical thinking. Creationism is a collection of faulty arguments. Faulty arguments should not be taught.

194 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:57:59pm

re: #182 HoosierHoops

A black hole beats everything in the universe..( hopefully lawyers also )

Yah, but how do you hold it?

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:58:40pm

V’ata tora v’shatah l’maya,
d’chava l’nura,
d’saraf l’chutra,
d’hikah l’chalba,
d’nashach l’shunrah,
d’achlah l’gadya,
d’zabin aba bitrei zuzei,
chad gadya, chad gadya.

196 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:58:44pm

re: #180 compound_Idaho

Abortion foes do live ultrasounds in Idaho Capitol

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

"Victims of rape, women who have fetal anomalies wouldn't love an ultrasound," Brass added. "The difference between what happened today and what we're talking about in the legislation is, the women today chose to have that ultrasound. The bill takes that decision away from them."

BINGO!!!

197 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:58:52pm

re: #194 etc/init.d/mailman start

Yah, but how do you hold it?

Do we really ever hold anything?

/;0

198 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:58:59pm

re: #194 etc/init.d/mailman start

Yah, but how do you hold it?

Vewy carefully.

199 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:59:14pm

re: #185 ggt

"People" seem to confuse hypothesis (educated guess) with theory.

Equivocation is a favoured rhetorical tactic.

200 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 6:59:40pm

re: #199 etc/init.d/mailman start

Equivocation is a favoured rhetorical tactic.

Yes, we live in a rhetorical world!

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:00:26pm

re: #200 ggt

Yes, we live in a rhetorical world!

And I am a rhetorical girl.

202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:00:26pm

re: #188 Lidane

I sure as hell do if they're being presented in a science class.

Creationism and ID are not science. They should be taught in a mythology class, or a religious studies class, not in biology or any other science class.

Finish reading the entire quote:

I actually have no problem with the idea of discussing the merits of Creationism or ID in the public school classroom. It would make a fine topic for discussion or debate in a social studies course on Religions in Society. But this topic has no business in a biology classroom, since science is based on verifiable evidence along with empirically and mathematically testable hypotheses, whereas religious beliefs are by definition faith-based.

203 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:01:22pm

re: #193 Anti-Pope of Darwinism

Faulty arguments should not be taught.

But future generations need to be told why we went into Iraq!

/

204 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:03:32pm

re: #197 ggt

Do we really ever hold anything?

/;0

If you love something, let it go.

Best if done at a gas station, but the side of the road can be used in a pinch.

205 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:04:22pm

re: #202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I saw that after I did the first speed read.

206 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:05:22pm

re: #188 Lidane

Creationism and ID are not science. They should be taught in a mythology class, or a religious studies class, not in biology or any other science class.

Only other religions are mythology.

207 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:05:27pm

re: #205 Lidane

I saw that after I did the first speed read.

LGF is not safe for speed reading.

Did you see the video I posted above?

208 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:06:32pm

re: #44 ggt

Opus Dei is a bat-shit crazy in my eyes.

Never heard of them until I was grown-up and the DaVinci Code was published.

Definitely not normal every-day Catholic.

I think Rick Santorum has been using a cilice on his head.

209 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:06:41pm

I wonder -- taking a roll of Brawny to a Creationism conference

Nah, no one would get it.

210 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:06:49pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

V’ata tora v’shatah l’maya,
d’chava l’nura,
d’saraf l’chutra,
d’hikah l’chalba,
d’nashach l’shunrah,
d’achlah l’gadya,
d’zabin aba bitrei zuzei,
chad gadya, chad gadya.

Highlight, right click, select search google & learn something new. :D

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:07:06pm

re: #205 Lidane

I saw that after I did the first speed read.

You lose one internet. Please deposit it in the nearest tube.
:P

212 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:08:02pm

re: #207 ggt

LGF is not safe for speed reading.

Did you see the video I posted above?

.gnidaer deeps rof efas ton si FGL

?evoba detsop I oediv eht ees uoy Did

213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:09:04pm

re: #212 etc/init.d/mailman start

.gnidaer deeps rof efas ton si FGL

Female Genital Liberation? I'm all for it!

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:09:09pm

re: #212 etc/init.d/mailman start

.gnidaer deeps rof efas ton si FGL

?evoba detsop I oediv eht ees uoy Did


destined for reality?

I googled it and that is what I got.

215 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:09:29pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

And I am a rhetorical girl.

I am a rhetorical girl.
Running down rhetorical streets
i sing rhetorical songs
about my rhetorical feats
I am a rhetorical girl
I read rhetorical books
I have rhetorical answers
I have rhetorical looks
Cause I'm a rhetorical girl

:)

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:10:39pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Female Genital Liberation? I'm all for it!

Potty brain!

217 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:10:52pm

re: #215 HoosierHoops

I am a rhetorical girl.
Running down rhetorical streets
i sing rhetorical songs
about my rhetorical feats
I am a rhetorical girl
I read rhetorical books
I have rhetorical answers
I have rhetorical looks
Cause I'm a rhetorical girl

:)

.girl rhetorical a am I
streets rhetorical down Running
songs rhetorical sing i
feats rhetorical my about
girl rhetorical a am I
books rhetorical read I
answers rhetorical have I
looks rhetorical have I
girl rhetorical a m'I Cause

218 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:11:33pm

re: #216 ggt

Potty brain!

Not really, he's just ruled by his mini-me.

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:12:01pm

re: #212 etc/init.d/mailman start

.gnidaer deeps rof efas ton si FGL

?evoba detsop I oediv eht ees uoy Did

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Playing with HTML code again.

220 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:12:20pm

re: #218 etc/init.d/mailman start

Not really, he's just ruled by his mini-me.

I'm no getting the difference.

221 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:13:09pm

re: #217 etc/init.d/mailman start

.girl rhetorical a am I
streets rhetorical down Running
songs rhetorical sing i
feats rhetorical my about
girl rhetorical a am I
books rhetorical read I
answers rhetorical have I
looks rhetorical have I
girl rhetorical a m'I Cause

A little more work and we can put the words to the tune of Material Girl by Madonna..

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:13:37pm

re: #221 HoosierHoops

A little more work and we can put the words to the tune of Material Girl by Madonna..

so 1980's

bad hair, bad clothing, bad music.

223 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:13:56pm

re: #220 ggt

I'm no getting the difference.

Now that you put it that way...

(I'm going to piss off Obdi with all these ellipses I'm using)

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:14:11pm

Brat puppy is now trying to weave thru my legs and the desk chair legs to get to the Cat Overlord who is under the desk.

My chair swivels.

225 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:11pm

re: #216 ggt

re: #218 etc/init.d/mailman start

C'mon y'all, I'm just advocating for the freedom of my American sisters.

226 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:18pm

re: #224 ggt

Brat puppy is now trying to weave thru my legs and the desk chair legs to get to the Cat Overlord who is under the desk.

My chair swivels.

You need to tie his leash to the side of the chair.

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:15:54pm

re: #226 etc/init.d/mailman start

You need to tie his leash to the side of the chair.

You'd find that amusing, wouldn't you?

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:16:04pm

re: #225 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

re: #218 etc/init.d/mailman start

C'mon y'all, I'm just advocating for the freedom of my American sisters.

And their junk.

229 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:16:24pm

re: #223 etc/init.d/mailman start

Now that you put it that way...

(I'm going to piss off Obdi with all these ellipses I'm using)

Are ellipses shorthand for rhetorical?

230 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:03pm

re: #227 ggt

You'd find that amusing, wouldn't you?

Uh huh.

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:06pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

And their junk.

what about non-american women and their junk?

232 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:34pm

re: #229 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Are ellipses shorthand for rhetorical?

I'm not sure ...

233 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:37pm

re: #229 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Are ellipses shorthand for rhetorical?

No, they are flattened circles, kinda.

234 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:17:56pm

re: #222 ggt

so 1980's

bad hair, bad clothing, bad music.

The Wedding singer!
I loved the 80's..It was fun

235 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:18:04pm

re: #231 ggt

what about non-american women and their junk?

Good too.

236 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:18:17pm

re: #234 HoosierHoops

The Wedding singer!
I loved the 80's..It was fun

I think I enjoyed it.

237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:19:04pm

re: #231 ggt

what about non-american women and their junk?

I'm all for that too. I'm just dumb struck that lady bits are under such attack as they are in my country, here in the 21st century.

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:19:11pm

re: #233 ggt

No, they are flattened circles, kinda.

maybe a little elongated as well.

just think of the earths trek around the sun.

239 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:19:17pm

re: #233 ggt

No, they are flattened circles, kinda.

I need to work on my spelling....

240 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:20:01pm

re: #237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I'm all for that too. I'm just dumb struck that lady bits are under such attack as they are in my country, here in the 21st century.

THEN make sure everyone you know knows how you feel about it.

We need all the rhetoric we can get.

241 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:20:28pm

re: #222 ggt

so 1980's

bad hair, bad clothing, bad music.

1970's just as bad.

I was thin and hot during the WORST fashion decades of the century.

242 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:21:58pm

re: #237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I'm all for that too. I'm just dumb struck that lady bits are under such attack as they are in my country, here in the 21st century.

Talking of language, lady bits...?

243 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:22:06pm

re: #229 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Are ellipses shorthand for rhetorical?

Only when being equivocal.

(It just dawned on me what you said)

244 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:22:28pm

re: #240 ggt

I don't know that many people that really give a shit, one way or another. Sadly.

245 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:22:32pm

re: #241 Learned Mother of Zion

1970's just as bad.

I was thin and hot during the WORST fashion decades of the century.

mini-skirts?

Yeah, the big flowers and bell bottoms were wretch-worthy.

Things aren't too much better today. I was at the mall today and was really disappointed. $150 jeans and $70 t-shirts that were tissue paper thin. Sleeveless shirts that looked like maternity tops.

WTF?

246 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:23:08pm

re: #241 Learned Mother of Zion

1970's just as bad.

I was thin and hot during the WORST fashion decades of the century.

I was thin, hot and stoned during the '70s.

247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:23:48pm

re: #242 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Talking of language, lady bits...?

Well, my dude bits aren't feeling very threatened in this current political climate.

248 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:24:04pm

re: #246 etc/init.d/mailman start

I was thin, hot and stoned during the '70s.

That was me in the '80s.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:24:39pm

re: #247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Well, my dude bits aren't feeling very threatened in this current political climate.

They should be, that is if your dude bits are drawn to lady bits.

250 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:03pm

re: #246 etc/init.d/mailman start

I was thin, hot and stoned during the '70s.

It's very hot in your country right now. Almost tropical. But the temp is supposed to plummet tomorrow.

251 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:29pm

re: #248 ggt

That was me in the '80s.

You youngsters.

252 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:25:54pm

From the department of confirming what you already knew:

Researchers have established a direct link between the number of friends you have on Facebook and the degree to which you are a "socially disruptive" narcissist, confirming the conclusions of many social media sceptics.

People who score highly on the Narcissistic Personality Inventory questionnaire had more friends on Facebook, tagged themselves more often and updated their newsfeeds more regularly.

253 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:26:14pm

re: #236 ggt

I think I enjoyed it.

Those were my salad days.. Newly married..Starting a family..Worked at MINSY building nuclear submarines..We got to travel...Wonderful memories of the 80's

254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:26:21pm

re: #249 ggt

Okay, not directly threatened anyway.

And it's been a while since my dude bits have been near any lady bits. Do they still look the way I remember?

255 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:26:41pm

re: #252 goddamnedfrank

What the hell is tagging yourself? Sounds like something the GOP would be against.

I got sick of FB real fast because of the people posting their 'deep thoughts' and affirmations and stuff.

256 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:26:57pm

re: #247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Well, my dude bits aren't feeling very threatened in this current political climate.

I'm still mulling the use of "bits" in this context. Always something new at LGF.

257 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:27:12pm

re: #250 Learned Mother of Zion

It's very hot in your country right now. Almost tropical. But the temp is supposed to plummet tomorrow.

Plummeting hotness - something I'm intimately familiar with.

258 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:27:40pm

re: #256 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

I'm still mulling the use of "bits" in this context. Always something new at LGF.

bits not bytes

does that help?

259 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:27:54pm

re: #257 etc/init.d/mailman start

Plummeting hotness - something I'm intimately familiar with.

You live near an apartment building with a lot of suicidal models and a safety net?

260 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:28:03pm

gotta go,

Have a great evening all!

and watch your bits!

261 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:28:25pm

re: #258 ggt

bits not bytes

does that help?

Well, bytes would be more flattering, perhaps. My concept concerns size. I take it that doesn't matter to you...(ellipsis)

262 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:28:28pm

re: #256 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

I'm still mulling the use of "bits" in this context. Always something new at LGF.

Would you prefer "junk", or "stuff"?

Maybe "doodads"?

263 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:12pm

re: #253 HoosierHoops

Those were my salad days.. Newly married..Starting a family..Worked at MINSY building nuclear submarines..We got to travel...Wonderful memories of the 80's

You built nuculer submarines?

Is there anything you haven't done?

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:42pm

re: #258 ggt

In that context, "bits" still applies to me.
/OH! Self-Burn!

265 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:47pm

I'm watching Obama land live here in Oklahoma.. Yes it's live here..
Welcome to Oklahoma Mr. President!

266 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:29:49pm

re: #255 Obdicut

What the hell is tagging yourself? Sounds like something the GOP would be against.

I got sick of FB real fast because of the people posting their 'deep thoughts' and affirmations and stuff.

Santorum just hates it.

267 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:30:38pm

re: #258 ggt

bits not bytes

does that help?

Word!

268 zora  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:14pm

re: #237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

I'm all for that too. I'm just dumb struck that lady bits are under such attack as they are in my country, here in the 21st century.

‘Dear Doctor Governor … ‘: Women Protest On GOP Govs’ Facebook Walls

As Republican-led states take on anti-abortion legislation, women frustrated with the laws are voicing their anger in a very public way: on their governors’ Facebook pages. Some comments are earnest, but many seize on the notion that the measures suggest men know what’s best for women’s health.

Dear Doctor Governor-I have an issue with my vagina. I’m having a terrible flow and cramping. This happens every month. I’m not sure if it is related to the lack of an ultrasound or the lack of a pill (I know one is mandated but my poor addled lady brain can’t wrap my head around this issue). I’m guessing that it may be the ultrasound since I heard the men folk on the teevee telling us that contraception and the like is one step from abortion. What do I do Dr. Gov? Should I come to your office for the exam?

[Link: blog.chron.com...]

Women ‘ask Dr. Rick’

Rick Perry, the man who likes to describe himself as “just a little ol’ animal science major from A&M,” probably wasn’t prepared nor was he expecting the flood of explicit questions about women’s health that began appearing on his Facebook Wall this morning. A barrage of snarky posts asked the governor for advice about everything from menstruation to menopause, cramping to contraceptives.

Among nearly 4,000 comments was this question from one “Tolley Jones”: “Mr. Perry, as a black woman who is also a single mother, I was wondering if you would consider legislation that would require women to go to a Red Hut during their periods, followed by required cleansing in holy water (preferably from the Euphrates.) as mandated in Leviticus. . . .”

269 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:38pm

re: #259 Obdicut

You live near an apartment building with a lot of suicidal models and a safety net?

I have film.

270 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:31:53pm

re: #267 etc/init.d/mailman start

Let's not rule out "bites", though. Playful ones, anyway.

271 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:32:01pm

re: #262 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Would you prefer "junk", or "stuff"?

Maybe "doodads"?

I like "you know whats its..." Including ellipsis. (practicing my spelling)

272 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:32:25pm

re: #261 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Well, bytes would be more flattering, perhaps.

Tiny nibbles are more fun.

273 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:33:00pm

re: #262 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Would you prefer "junk", or "stuff"?

Maybe "doodads"?

Banana and grapes.

274 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:33:26pm

re: #255 Obdicut

What the hell is tagging yourself? Sounds like something the GOP would be against.

I got sick of FB real fast because of the people posting their 'deep thoughts' and affirmations and stuff.

Tagging yourself refers to uploaded images, and possibly location updates via Foursquare -> giantdouchebagrepublican commented on your check in at Planned Parenthood.

275 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:35:06pm

re: #272 etc/init.d/mailman start

Tiny nibbles are more fun.

Um, dude? Your wife is just telling you that because she loves you.

276 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:35:29pm

re: #274 goddamnedfrank

Tagging yourself refers to uploaded images, and possibly location updates via Foursquare -> giantdouchebagrepublican commented on your check in at Planned Parenthood.

You literalists sure do love to spoil a smart-assed comment.

277 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:37:15pm

re: #263 etc/init.d/mailman start

You built nuculer submarines?

Is there anything you haven't done?

Really? I spent 20years as a nuke for the Government building subs...With hard work I've developed a pretty good career With a top 10 global Company. I feel blessed by God and fucked by the IRS..LOL

278 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:38:07pm

re: #274 goddamnedfrank

Tagging yourself refers to uploaded images, and possibly location updates via Foursquare -> giantdouchebagrepublican commented on your check in at Planned Parenthood.

We track our idiot salespeople that way. They check in far away, cheer in office. Yah, not smart.

279 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:38:20pm

One nibble needs 4 bits.
One byte needs 2 nibbles.
Some words need 2 bytes.

280 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:39:58pm

re: #277 HoosierHoops

Really? I spent 20years as a nuke for the Government building subs...With hard work I've developed a pretty good career With a top 10 global Company. I feel blessed by God and fucked by the IRS..LOL

It's not how much you pay to the IRS, it's what you get for the money.

281 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:41:24pm
schoolteachers “should teach Darwin’s theory of evolution, but also the scientific evidence against it.”

That's gonna be a pretty fckin' short lesson, ace.

The ignorance... It burnnnsssss us!!!

282 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:41:44pm

re: #280 etc/init.d/mailman start

It's not how much you pay to the IRS, it's what you get for the money.

All I got was this dumb Tee-Shirt..
/

283 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:44:25pm

re: #279 etc/init.d/mailman start

One nibble needs 4 bits.
One byte needs 2 nibbles.
Some words need 2 bytes.

But the best machines needed a 40 bit word...

284 Kragar  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:44:43pm
285 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:45:11pm

re: #281 Pawn of the Oppressor

"Have you seen my pocket watch? SCIENCE!!!"

286 dragonfire1981  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:46:14pm

re: #283 William Barnett-Lewis

But the best machines needed a 40 bit word...

That reminds of the classic funny Windows 95 description:

A 32-bit patch for a
16-bit GUI shell running on top of an
8-bit operating system written for a
4-bit processor by a
2-bit company who cannot stand
1 bit of competition.

287 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:46:30pm

re: #284 Kragar

10 Reasons The Rest Of The World Thinks The U.S. Is Nuts

Sooo... we're already part of the Caliphate? Nice.

288 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:49:00pm

re: #284 Kragar

10 Reasons The Rest Of The World Thinks The U.S. Is Nuts

So... the whole modern GOP platform, then?

289 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:49:14pm

re: #285 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

"Have you seen my pocket watch? SCIENCE!!!"

Bill Paley, is that you?

290 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:49:45pm
291 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:50:17pm
293 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:52:20pm

re: #290 ProGunLiberal

I'm not going to be on here much for the next week, if I can help it. I am going to try to detox. CL's ultimatum was the needed push.

Charles, would you be able keep me to this please? I need time away to try and reorganize my head. 7-day suspension?

Test yourself. You can do it.

294 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:53:27pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

I look like the guy in the background, I can never get my diaper on right.

295 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:56:16pm

re: #290 ProGunLiberal

I'm not going to be on here much for the next week, if I can help it. I am going to try to detox. CL's ultimatum was the needed push.

Charles, would you be able keep me to this please? I need time away to try and reorganize my head. 7-day suspension?

Don't do that. Just don't visit. May I ask what happened, though?

296 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:57:08pm

"junk"

use of this in an anatomical context definitely brings out the "get offa my lawn" in me

297 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:57:29pm
298 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:58:47pm
299 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 7:58:52pm

Charlie Pierce is hilarious:

In that spirit, let me say that the House of Representatives, under its current majority management, has degenerated into a complete madhouse, an asylum for nihilists and vandals who literally do not believe that the government of the United States has any legitimate function beyond organizing and training the military. There is no reason to mince words about these people any more. In 2010, the voters, in their infinite wisdom, visited upon the country the biggest bunch of fantasts, paranoids, and general whackaloons since the last time Glenn Beck dined alone. This is a legislative body that is not only an embarrassment to democratic self-government, but also an embarrassment to all human endeavor back to the Bronze Age. This isn't a Congress. This is a pre-school, the political equivalent of that Twilight Zone episode in which the little boy terrorizes all the adults and then turns one of them into a jack-in-the-box.

300 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:00:27pm

re: #289 etc/init.d/mailman start

re: #285 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

"Have you seen my pocket watch? SCIENCE!!!"

Bill Paley, is that you?

William Paley?
His teleology pocket watch argument?
A play on Bill Bailey?

Hello?
.
.
.
Uh.

301 freetoken  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:00:35pm
...Rick Santorum proves again that he is probably the dumbest, most determinedly ignorant right winger ever to run for President ....

I still think that crown stays with Michele Bachmann.

302 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:02:13pm

re: #300 etc/init.d/mailman start

303 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:02:16pm
304 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:02:49pm

re: #301 freetoken

I still think that crown stays with Michele Bachmann.

With Rick Perry right on her heels as an example of arrogant, determined stupid.

305 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:04:50pm

re: #302 Obdicut

[Embedded content]

306 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:04:54pm

re: #301 freetoken

re: #304 Lidane

Those 2 were smart/lucky. They are back to their big grift. Set for life.

307 erik_t  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:05:16pm

re: #304 Lidane

Santorum is the most proudly ignorant/theocratic-fascist, and Bachmann is the craziest, but Perry really does appear to be dumb as a fucking post.

308 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:05:41pm

re: #306 Oh geeze.

re: #304 Lidane

Those 2 were smart/lucky. They are back to their big grift. Set for life.

Right now, Rick Perry's FB page is flooded with women sarcastically seeking medical advice. I think it's hilarious.

309 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:06:04pm

re: #268 zora

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

‘Dear Doctor Governor … ‘: Women Protest On GOP Govs’ Facebook Walls

[Link: blog.chron.com...]

That's why these laws need passing. Women is this country are out of control! Do you see how uppity these bitches have become? No woman would have spoken to a man with such disrespect and impertinence back in the day. They were in the kitchen making pie and in the bedroom making babies! Now they are all disrespectful, loud mouthed, uppity sluts! I'll be leaving for a convent soon to get my own uppitiness under control.

////

310 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:06:53pm

re: #308 Lidane

Right now, Rick Perry's FB page is flooded with women sarcastically seeking medical advice. I think it's hilarious.

I'm hoping he's also getting hammered on twitter and email.

311 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:07:03pm

Ha! This is awesome:

Image: fourmoreyears.jpg

312 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:07:16pm

This evening we attended the Bat Mitzvah celebration of our granddaughter, a very beautiful, intelligent, talented, gracious, poised young lady. She made us very proud of her.

313 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:08:00pm

re: #312 Learned Mother of Zion

This evening we attended the Bat Mitzvah celebration of our granddaughter, a very beautiful, intelligent, talented, gracious, poised young lady. She made us very proud of her.

Is she also a Canuck?

314 freetoken  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:08:09pm

re: #307 erik_t

I would put it this way - Santorum is the most successful of theocratic right wingers running for President, as far as getting followers behind him.

Palin was handed the opportunity (by McCain.) Santorum is working for it.

315 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:09:11pm

re: #311 Lidane

Ha! This is awesome:

Image: fourmoreyears.jpg

LOL!

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:10:16pm

re: #309 moderatelyradicalliberal

That's why these laws need passing. Women is this country are out of control! Do you see how uppity these bitches have become? No woman would have spoken to a man with such disrespect and impertinence back in the day. They were in the kitchen making pie and in the bedroom making babies! Now they are all disrespectful, loud mouthed, uppity sluts! I'll be leaving for a convent soon to get my own uppitiness under control.

///

Haven't any of these people ever seen "Adam's Rib"?

317 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:10:41pm

re: #314 freetoken

I would put it this way - Santorum is the most successful of theocratic right wingers running for President, as far as getting followers behind him.

Palin was handed the opportunity (by McCain.) Santorum is working for it.

Which is why he'll be the "messiah" (yes, the "anointed one" per longstanding GOP tradition :) come 2016. I begin to wonder if Heinlein wasn't only off by 4 years...

318 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:11:17pm

Robert VerBruggen writing on National Review Online has weighed in on the death of Trayvon Martin. Read the whole thing here, but I am going to repost two three paragraph excerpts that catch the critical parts of the piece:

Florida has some of the strongest laws pertaining to armed self-defense in the United States. Not only did the state begin the trend of “shall issue” concealed-carry laws in the late 1980s, but it more recently enacted a “Stand Your Ground” statute, meaning that when a person faces a threat of death or great bodily harm in a public place, he has no duty to retreat from his attacker before using lethal force in self-defense.

However, a commitment to armed self-defense requires a second commitment: to the principle that those who bear arms must act responsibly. It is still not clear whether Florida “neighborhood watch” vigilante George Zimmerman broke the law when he chased down and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. And that’s a problem, because Zimmerman acted inappropriately in the moments leading up to the shooting, and Martin would still be alive if Zimmerman had behaved as he should have. Supporters of pro-self-defense policies should roundly condemn Zimmerman’s actions, and Florida should change its laws to prevent this incident from repeating itself.

The 28-year-old Zimmerman is a classic cop wannabe: Loving the thought of himself as a police officer, and witnessing a spate of break-ins in his neighborhood, he decided to patrol the streets in his SUV — carrying a gun (as he was licensed to do) and calling the cops 46 times in the course of a year to report “suspicious” activity. On the night of February 26, a black teenager happened to catch Zimmerman’s eagle eye.

SNIP

Contrary to what many liberal pundits have written, Florida should not reimpose a “duty to retreat” — the policy that prevailed before Stand Your Ground — on innocent people who face violent attackers. But it is true that the Stand Your Ground statute protects people who don’t merely stand their ground — it protects anyone who can reasonably claim he faced a serious threat, so long as he was “not engaged in unlawful activity” when the threat occurred.

Therefore, to arrest Zimmerman, the police would need evidence that he was doing something illegal when Martin attacked him, or that he didn’t reasonably believe he faced a serious threat. Since we don’t know whether Zimmerman threw the first punch when he caught up to Martin, and we don’t know what Martin was doing when Zimmerman fired, this isn’t possible.

The solution is to make Zimmerman’s activity unlawful. It should be a crime to chase down a fellow citizen who runs away, except in certain situations (e.g. when a store owner pursues a shoplifter, as opposed to a man’s running after a teenager with no provocation whatsoever). One might imagine this was already a crime — such as assault — but Florida police officials have said it is not.

319 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:12:23pm

re: #318 Dark_Falcon

What really needs to happen - the NRA should have NO SAY in passing any laws related to guns. They are not to be trusted.

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:12:33pm

re: #312 Learned Mother of Zion

This evening we attended the Bat Mitzvah celebration of our granddaughter, a very beautiful, intelligent, talented, gracious, poised young lady. She made us very proud of her.

Mazal tov!

321 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:14:00pm

What happened to Trayvon Martin was nothing more than the inevitable outcome when a right wing pro-gun organization is allowed to dictate policy.

322 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:14:01pm

re: #319 Charles Johnson

What really needs to happen - the NRA should have NO SAY in passing any laws related to guns. They are not to be trusted.

YES. THIS.

It won't happen, though. Too many politicians are too weak-willed to stand up to the NRA, and the end result is innocent kids getting murdered by Dirty Harry wannabe gun fetishists who think they're cops.

323 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:14:56pm

re: #318 Dark_Falcon

Robert VerBruggen writing on National Review Online has weighed in on the death of Trayvon Martin. Read the whole thing here, but I am going to repost two three paragraph excerpts that catch the critical parts of the piece:

SNIP

Maybe legislatures and governors should start reading the laws that the NRA writes for them before they pass them.

324 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:15:02pm

re: #319 Charles Johnson

I reject that idea entirely.

326 freetoken  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:15:05pm

re: #317 William Barnett-Lewis

I'm beginning to think that the GOP establishment types will give Santorum the cold shoulder, as they have. I really do think that there is an obvious disconnect between many of the wealthy and successful rank and file members of the GOP and the assertive SoCon types are in conflict (of their self interests.)

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:15:11pm

re: #322 Lidane

YES. THIS.

It won't happen, though. Too many politicians are too weak-willed to stand up to the NRA, and the end result is innocent kids getting murdered by Dirty Harry wannabe gun fetishists who think they're cops.

My father dropped his membership in the NRA when George Bush Sr. did.

328 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:15:35pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

I reject that idea entirely.

Imagine my surprise.

329 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:15:42pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

I reject that idea entirely.

So you're fine with the NRA writing laws that end up getting innocent kids murdered? Come on, Dark.

330 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:16:27pm

Night lizards.

331 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:17:27pm
It is still not clear whether Florida “neighborhood watch” vigilante George Zimmerman broke the law when he chased down and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

First, he followed the kid in his car. Then he chased him on foot, terrorizing Martin. Then he attacks him, pulls a gun on him, and murders him in the streets.

All of that counts as breaking the law.

332 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:18:02pm

re: #329 Lidane

So you're fine with the NRA writing laws that end up getting innocent kids murdered? Come on, Dark.

Radical change isn't needed. What is needed is amending of the law to make clear that chasing someone down as Zimmerman did is unlawful and thus voids any claim of self-defense.

333 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:18:17pm

Just reading, not participating at all (well I did put on a hoodie tonight in solidarity) I am so fucking sad, disgusted, and saying for the first time in my whitey way, "no justice, no peace" GOOD NIGHT NOW.

334 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:18:57pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Radical change isn't needed. What is needed is amending of the law to make clear that chasing someone down as Zimmerman did is unlawful and thus voids any claim of self-defense.

The NRA needs to stop influencing policies.

335 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:19:20pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Radical change isn't needed. What is needed is amending of the law to make clear that chasing someone down as Zimmerman did is unlawful and thus voids any claim of self-defense.

What's needed is to get the NRA out of a position where they can convince any more states to pass these insane "license to murder" laws.

336 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:19:33pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Radical change isn't needed. What is needed is amending of the law to make clear that chasing someone down as Zimmerman did is unlawful and thus voids any claim of self-defense.

That starts by getting the NRA the hell out of writing the gun laws in the first place.

Also, Zimmerman should be in jail and awaiting trial on murder charges. Period.

337 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:19:42pm

re: #329 Lidane

So you're fine with the NRA writing laws that end up getting innocent kids murdered? Come on, Dark.

Technically speaking, the law didn't get him killed, but it may get the perp set free.

338 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:20:59pm

re: #337 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Technically speaking, the law didn't get him killed, but it may get the perp set free.

Meaning that murder is legal in Florida now.

339 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:21:29pm

I'm a gun owner, and I'm not opposed to rational gun ownership. "Stand your ground" laws are not rational -- they're insane.

340 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:21:59pm

re: #338 Lidane

Meaning that murder is legal in Florida now.

It may be flawed law, but I think that's a rather glib way to put it. The case is not yet closed on this killing.

341 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:22:18pm

re: #331 Lidane

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

First, he followed the kid in his car. Then he chased him on foot, terrorizing Martin. Then he attacks him, pulls a gun on him, and murders him in the streets.

All of that counts as breaking the law.

I just want to comment that the longer this goes on, the more details are going to emerge in the press and the less of a fair trial Zimmerman is going to get.

The man deserves a fair trial before the entire world has him hanging.

The whole thing is making me cranky on many levels.

342 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:22:26pm

re: #331 Lidane

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

First, he followed the kid in his car. Then he chased him on foot, terrorizing Martin. Then he attacks him, pulls a gun on him, and murders him in the streets.

All of that counts as breaking the law.

But regardless of what happened during the fight, Zimmerman’s actions went well beyond defending himself and others from physical threats, and into the territory of vigilantism — and they should be illegal. Zimmerman sought out this confrontation, and as a result a young man is dead — a young man who was unarmed, who was not carrying drugs, and who very well may have done nothing more than defend himself against a stranger who followed him on the street. Trayvon Martin visited his father, walked to 7-Eleven to buy some Skittles during the halftime of the NBA All-Star game, and for that wound up dead at the hands of the “neighborhood watch.”

VerBruggen is a lawyer, looking at the case from that perspective. He makes very clear that he thinks Zimmerman did wrong and Martin died because of it. What he is uncertain about is given what all has happened, if Zimmerman can actually be convicted of anything. I'd add that part of the reason for that state of affairs is the Sanford police department, who dropped the ball in truly epic fashion.

343 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:24:56pm

re: #341 Madge

The man deserves a fair trial before the entire world has him hanging.

Please. We all know that if the situation was reversed and Martin had been the one to kill Zimmerman in the exact same circumstances, the kid would be in jail right now awaiting trial on murder charges, bullshit "stand your ground" law or not.

Fair is fair. Arrest Zimmerman and charge him with murder. Let him actually face a trial at all instead of setting him free for killing an innocent kid.

The whole thing is making me cranky on many levels.

The only people with a right to be cranky are Trayvon Martin's parents. The rest of us are outraged on their behalf because their son was murdered by a crazed racist Dirty Harry wannabe and will most likely walk for it.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:25:11pm

re: #341 Madge

I just want to comment that the longer this goes on, the more details are going to emerge in the press and the less of a fair trial Zimmerman is going to get.

The man deserves a fair trial before the entire world has him hanging.

The whole thing is making me cranky on many levels.

The man deserves a fair trial, yes. But he's getting tried in the court of public opinion in large part because this was so dramatically mishandled.

345 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:26:29pm

re: #342 Dark_Falcon

VerBruggen is an apologist for the NRA, and he's trying to salvage the insane "Stand Your Ground" law initiatives by convincing the gullible that this is a fluke. It's no fluke - it's the inevitable outcome of telling people they can shoot first if they "feel" threatened.

346 freetoken  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:26:33pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

The man deserves a fair trial, yes. But he's getting tried in the court of public opinion in large part because this was so dramatically mishandled.

I agree. If the PD had handled this at the beginning this would be headlines but not snowballing into a movement.

347 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:26:46pm
348 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:27:43pm

re: #334 etc/init.d/mailman start

The NRA needs to stop influencing policies.

Well, no, or rather, we need to find a way to prevent all of the so-called lobbyists from being able to write legislation. This is not an ill that is exclusive to the NRA though they have been extremely talented at it.

(Full Disclosure: Major pro-gun geek here but I do not belong to the NRA and have repeatedly refused to help it.)

349 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:29:21pm

re: #345 Charles Johnson

VerBruggen is an apologist for the NRA, and he's trying to salvage the insane "Stand Your Ground" law initiatives by convincing the gullible that this is a fluke. It's no fluke - it's the inevitable outcome of telling people they can shoot first if they "feel" threatened.

If it were a fluke, then the the three other cases that were brought up last night, including an ex-husband picking a fight with his ex-wife's new boyfriend and then shooting him in "self-defense," are also "flukes."

No, what the Martin case has done is brought to the light the very real fact that this law has seen dozens of murders go without justice because of a supremely flawed law.

350 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:29:39pm

re: #343 Lidane

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, obviously. I've been following this since the day it happened. We heard it before the rest of the country.

The statement "he deserves a fair trial" is meant for anyone and everyone, guilty as hell or not. And yes, he does deserve it. Trayvon's family deserves to know exactly what happened when it happened and by whom. He should have been arrested immediately. I said, the longer this goes on, the worse it is for everyone.

351 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:30:13pm

re: #345 Charles Johnson

VerBruggen is an apologist for the NRA, and he's trying to salvage the insane "Stand Your Ground" law initiatives by convincing the gullible that this is a fluke.

Which only reinforces the fact that the entire NRO editorial is a pile of bullshit. He's trying to justify his job, nothing else.

352 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:30:47pm

If Zimmerman continues to do his "neighborhood watch" activities even after all of this, he may end up finding himself on the wrong side of a gun and his shooter would use the same "stand your ground" law that Zimmerman is using, I'm afraid. You know that someone will feel threaten by him now that all of this is out and will defend him/herself under this insane law. I hope it never happens, as Zimmerman should be behind bars for the murder of a young man. That's the most that should happen to him.

353 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:31:52pm

Check out Robert VerBruggen's previous articles for NRO on gun laws: [Link: www.google.com...]

354 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:32:28pm

re: #341 Madge

I just want to comment that the longer this goes on, the more details are going to emerge in the press and the less of a fair trial Zimmerman is going to get.

The man deserves a fair trial before the entire world has him hanging.

The whole thing is making me cranky on many levels.

The Sanford PD has so screwed up this whole affair that there's no longer any chance of a fair trial for Zimmerman. Evidence that might have been used to convict him of at least manslaughter, such as impairment due to drugs or alcohol at the time of the shooting, are gone forever because the cops were too quick to buy his story and let him off the hook. Any case against him now would see the prosecution already at a severe disadvantage. Throw in the fact that the "Stand You Ground" law would still apply and it's likely that no matter how biased a judge may be against Zimmerman, he'd still have to let him off.

355 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:33:25pm

The man is walking free with his gun still in his incompetant hands. Not really worried about him, truth be told. He is, at best, a real fucking moran.

356 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:33:58pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Radical change isn't needed. What is needed is amending of the law to make clear that chasing someone down as Zimmerman did is unlawful and thus voids any claim of self-defense.

part of the way a law operates is how it is strictly interpreted in a legal proceeding

but then there is also what people think it means

357 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:34:01pm

This story has levels of complexity we have not seen yet.. Charles is looking at root causes legally and morally.
I think also we need to look at this neighborhood watch program.. Was there also a cultivating effect at play here? At what point did it get from if I see somebody hauling off your TV I'll call 911 to armed patrolling? Did that neighborhood collectively approval crossing that line into vigilantly.
What did they know and when did they know it?

358 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:34:18pm

I'd never heard of him before this, but a Google search reveals that Verbruggen is deeply involved with the NRA. He appears in their videos, on their podcasts, and speaks at their conferences. This is NOT a disinterested observer.

359 erik_t  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:34:57pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

This story has levels of complexity we have not seen yet.. Charles is looking at root causes legally and morally.
I think also we need to look at this neighborhood watch program.. Was there also a cultivating effect at play here? At what point did it get from if I see somebody hauling off your TV I'll call 911 to armed patrolling? Did that neighborhood collectively approval crossing that line into vigilantly.
What did they know and when did they know it?

This has nothing to do with Neighborhood Watch as an idea or program. Were I a representative of such, I'd be horrified as hell that those words are even used in this discussion.

360 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:35:54pm

re: #359 erik_t

This has nothing to do with Neighborhood Watch as an idea or program. Were I a representative of such, I'd be horrified as hell that those words are even used in this discussion.

As I said yesterday, it's the Neighborhood Watch, not the Neighborhood Shoot People.

361 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:36:22pm

"Stand Your Ground" means that lethal force is no longer the absolute last resort. Congratulations.

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:36:56pm

re: #350 Madge

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, obviously. I've been following this since the day it happened. We heard it before the rest of the country.

The statement "he deserves a fair trial" is meant for anyone and everyone, guilty as hell or not. And yes, he does deserve it. Trayvon's family deserves to know exactly what happened when it happened and by whom. He should have been arrested immediately. I said, the longer this goes on, the worse it is for everyone.

Yes. The Martin family especially. But hopefully the public pressure will force something to actually happen.

363 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:37:34pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

This story has levels of complexity we have not seen yet.. Charles is looking at root causes legally and morally.
I think also we need to look at this neighborhood watch program.. Was there also a cultivating effect at play here? At what point did it get from if I see somebody hauling off your TV I'll call 911 to armed patrolling? Did that neighborhood collectively approval crossing that line into vigilantly.
What did they know and when did they know it?

Zimmerman's not part of the National Neighborhood Watch Program, whose own rulebook orders members not to carry weapons and not to pursue suspects. So if he's been playing his little Dirty Harry fantasies out with the neighborhood's permission, then somebody needs to be held responsible there as well.

364 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:38:09pm

re: #354 Targetpractice

The Sanford PD has so screwed up this whole affair that there's no longer any chance of a fair trial for Zimmerman. Evidence that might have been used to convict him of at least manslaughter, such as impairment due to drugs or alcohol at the time of the shooting, are gone forever because the cops were too quick to buy his story and let him off the hook. Any case against him now would see the prosecution already at a severe disadvantage. Throw in the fact that the "Stand You Ground" law would still apply and it's likely that no matter how biased a judge may be against Zimmerman, he'd still have to let him off.

We need to hear the evidence. All of it. And I have to believe that we haven't heard it all. That there are still witnesses we don't know about. Things said, whatever it is. Like I say, the sooner the better.

Self-defense is still real and from how it looks, I have no doubt the evidence will show it was not a case of self-defense on behalf of GZ.

I simply cannot see this NOT going to trial.

365 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:38:41pm

Silver lining? Zimmerman won't have enough money in his name to buy any more bullets once the wrongful death suit is done...

366 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:39:03pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

What did they know and when did they know it?

They know that Zimmerman wasn't a member:

George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization

367 BryanS  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:39:33pm

Been away for a while, but figured I'd drive by to pile onto the 'Santorum is a tool' argument. Always did enjoy a good fight with the anti-evolutionists that were around when the topic was more controversial here :)

368 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:40:58pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

What did they know and when did they know it?

They know George Zimmerman was told he didn't need to pursue Trayvon Martin, but he chose to do it anyway.

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:41:03pm

re: #361 High Priest of Darwinism

"Stand Your Ground" means that lethal force is no longer the absolute last resort. Congratulations.

Lousy idea. I understand the concept behind castle laws. I doubt I would take advantage of one if I thought fleeing was a reasonable option, and I know bad cases have come of them, but I understand the concept.

But, "You can shoot someone to death if you feel threatened on the street and you don't feel like backing off," sounds like a law that was written by one of my dumbass seventh graders who get suspended for fighting because their mom told them to hit back, which means that a shove has to be responded to with a beatdown.

370 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:41:07pm

re: #364 Madge

We need to hear the evidence. All of it. And I have to believe that we haven't heard it all. That there are still witnesses we don't know about. Things said, whatever it is. Like I say, the sooner the better.

Self-defense is still real and from how it looks, I have no doubt the evidence will show it was not a case of self-defense on behalf of GZ.

I simply cannot see this NOT going to trial.

That's just it, we can't hear all the evidence, because so much of it that would have been found by basic police work now has been so badly compromised that any competent defense lawyer could get it thrown out. For example, if Martin's cellphone is ever turned up with pictures on it of Zimmerman in his SUV or giving chase, the defense will file to exclude it on the grounds of a broken chain of custody, i.e. the cops lost it and can't find it.

371 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:43:28pm

re: #366 Lidane

They know that Zimmerman wasn't a member:

George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization

They may be distancing themselves from him. From what I heard his neighbors say is that he was part of the N.W. and they were appalled to learn that he had a gun with him when he was on previous watches. That article doesn't have any of the neighbors' comments.

372 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:43:56pm

re: #370 Targetpractice

That's just it, we can't hear all the evidence, because so much of it that would have been found by basic police work now has been so badly compromised that any competent defense lawyer could get it thrown out. For example, if Martin's cellphone is ever turned up with pictures on it of Zimmerman in his SUV or giving chase, the defense will file to exclude it on the grounds of a broken chain of custody, i.e. the cops lost it and can't find it.

That's what pisses me off the most in all this. Zimmerman admitting firing his weapon. There was a dead body on the ground. Why wasn't he given drug and alcohol tests, and why wasn't a proper investigation done from the beginning?

The Sanford PD owes the Martin family a few careers and even some money for the way they botched up investigating their son's murder.

373 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:44:08pm
Zimmerman expressed an interest in law enforcement when he applied to the Seminole County Sheriff's Office citizens' law-enforcement academy in 2008, and has demonstrated that, although he's not a cop, he is willing to take action that resembles policing.

In 2003, records show, he pursued a 24-year-old Lake Mary man he had seen shoplift a 24-inch TV from an Albertsons supermarket, following the suspect's car until a deputy arrived. The next year, he followed a man who he claimed had spit at him while driving.
[Link: articles.orlandosentinel.com...]

374 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:44:21pm

We have to prove to the government that we can handle a 3000+ lbs motorized vehicle without killing us and everyone else around us. We have to prove to the government that we can fly an airplane/helicopter without leaving an impact crater and killing us and everyone else on the ground. We have to show the government that we are competent in so many things in life, yet any old person can buy and own a firearm without taking any classes or showing the government that we can handle one without killing us and everyone else around us.

You try to advocate for more responsible gun laws and the NRA and their ilk shout "HITLER!!!! STALIN!!!! MAO!!! WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA YOU COMMIE NAZI!!!! SECOND AMENDMENT!!!". These are the kind of guys that would fuck a gun until they shoot their load off, they fetishize guns so. Fucking. Much.

I am fascinated by firearms, but I'm not wanting to go out and buy so much my family is legally a military unit, I'm more into the history and the innovations that were made to them over time (to kill and maim people/animals). I want more responsible gun laws, but with the NRA and other gunfuckers, you'll never get that for a long, long, long, long time, I'm afraid.

Millions of lives could be saved in the future if we're more level headed with discussions on gun laws instead of invoking Hitler/Stalin/Mao/etc to shut down discussions.

375 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:44:41pm

re: #370 Targetpractice

That's just it, we can't hear all the evidence, because so much of it that would have been found by basic police work now has been so badly compromised that any competent defense lawyer could get it thrown out. For example, if Martin's cellphone is ever turned up with pictures on it of Zimmerman in his SUV or giving chase, the defense will file to exclude it on the grounds of a broken chain of custody, i.e. the cops lost it and can't find it.

We'll see. Ain't nothin over till it's over.

376 BryanS  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:46:41pm

What was the reason this Zimmerman guy shot that kid? Everything I've heard was light on that detail. It seems like no good reason other than "a felt justified" has been proffered--is that the situation? Why isn't any old murder justified if there is no objective standard to the threat someone is defending against is a reasonable threat? Is that really the law in FL?

377 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:46:55pm

re: #373 jaunte

So he was a documented, long-time Dirty Harry wannabe, and he also had a gun, and a bullshit law that allowed him to shoot if he felt threatened.

Wonderful.

378 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:48:22pm

re: #374 Give the Mule what he wants

I don't disagree, but none of those things you mention in the first paragraph are protected by the Constitution. Hell, I'm shocked we've been able to uphold the restrictions we've placed on these thungs up until now.

379 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:49:11pm

re: #376 BryanS

What was the reason this Zimmerman guy shot that kid? Everything I've heard was light on that detail. It seems like no good reason other than "a felt justified" has been proffered--is that the situation? Why isn't any old murder justified if there is no objective standard to the threat someone is defending against is a reasonable threat? Is that really the law in FL?

Apparently, in Florida, you can follow someone in your car, chase them on foot, terrorize them, attack them, pull a gun on them, and murder them out in the open, but if you claim that you felt threatened and that you had to stand your ground, it's not murder.

What. The. Fuck.

380 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:49:43pm

re: #376 BryanS

What was the reason this Zimmerman guy shot that kid? Everything I've heard was light on that detail. It seems like no good reason other than "a felt justified" has been proffered--is that the situation? Why isn't any old murder justified if there is no objective standard to the threat someone is defending against is a reasonable threat? Is that really the law in FL?

The 250lb man felt threatened by the 140 lb black boy.

381 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:50:03pm

re: #375 Madge

We'll see. Ain't nothin over till it's over.

I can't hold out my optimism, because so far, all I've heard is a case built primarily on circumstantial evidence. Or, at least that's what it's going to look like to a jury, huge gaps in the picture that the prosecution is going to be limited in filling in without being accused of "speculation."

The hurdle to get over is to disprove Zimmerman's story, which is rendered an almost insurmountable task by the cops accepting it at face value and not doing so much as a test for alcohol or drugs in his system.

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:50:32pm

re: #372 Lidane

That's what pisses me off the most in all this. Zimmerman admitting firing his weapon. There was a dead body on the ground. Why wasn't he given drug and alcohol tests, and why wasn't a proper investigation done from the beginning?

The Sanford PD owes the Martin family a few careers and even some money for the way they botched up investigating their son's murder.

That's the thing. As far as I can tell, the matter was considered a case of self-defense on the SOLE GROUNDS that the shooter said it was.

I could shoot ANYONE and say it was self-defense.

383 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:51:13pm

re: #379 Lidane

Apparently, in Florida*, you can follow someone in your car, chase them on foot, terrorize them, attack them, pull a gun on them, and murder them out in the open, but if you claim that you felt threatened and that you had to stand your ground, it's not murder.

* Offer available in these states:
Image: stand-ground-map4-600px.png

384 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:52:06pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

That's the thing. As far as I can tell, the matter was considered a case of self-defense on the SOLE GROUNDS that the shooter said it was.

I could shoot ANYONE and say it was self-defense.

Don't even have to get that far, according to one of the stories out of Florida on this law. Ex-husband shot his ex-wife's new boyfriend because...wait for it...he picked a fight with the boyfriend, who swore he'd "kill him."

385 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:52:12pm

From Unforgiven...

Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.

386 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:52:17pm

re: #383 jaunte

* Offer available in these states:
Image: stand-ground-map4-600px.png

Oh, hey. Imagine that. Texas is a shooting range too. What fun.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:53:20pm

re: #376 BryanS

What was the reason this Zimmerman guy shot that kid? Everything I've heard was light on that detail. It seems like no good reason other than "a felt justified" has been proffered--is that the situation? Why isn't any old murder justified if there is no objective standard to the threat someone is defending against is a reasonable threat? Is that really the law in FL?

My best guess, and of course I wasn't there, is that the kid saw him pop up again, and instead of running, walked toward him and said "Look, dude, why are you chasing me?" Teenage bravado. Zimmerman walked or ran toward him (gun drawn? meaning to make a citizen's arrest?), a scuffle began as the boy panicked, Zimmerman shot.

388 BryanS  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:53:29pm

re: #380 High Priest of Darwinism

The 250lb man felt threatened by the 140 lb black boy.

No doubt. The guy looked like a featherweight and a little kid. Who the frick feels threatened by a 140lb boy.

389 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:54:29pm

re: #388 BryanS

Who the frick feels threatened by a 140lb boy.

A 250-lb, crazed, racist Dirty Harry wannabe with a gun fetish and who thought he was a cop.

390 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:54:35pm

re: #386 Lidane

Oh, hey. Imagine that. Texas is a shooting range too. What fun.

Kinda shocked you guys let Florida beat you to that one...

391 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:55:31pm

re: #388 BryanS

No doubt. The guy looked like a featherweight and a little kid. Who the frick feels threatened by a 140lb boy.

A dumbass with a gun who takes a couple hits to the head from a kid struggling to get away from him.

392 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:55:32pm

re: #390 High Priest of Darwinism

Kinda shocked you guys let Florida beat you to that one...

We're too busy killing off health care for women. Give it time.

393 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:55:57pm

re: #388 BryanS

No doubt. The guy looked like a featherweight and a little kid. Who the frick feels threatened by a 140lb boy.

Did you happen to miss the key adjective in that sentence?

394 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:56:11pm

re: #378 High Priest of Darwinism

I don't disagree, but none of those things you mention in the first paragraph are protected by the Constitution. Hell, I'm shocked we've been able to uphold the restrictions we've placed on these thungs up until now.

True, but how about the 1st Amendment? Guarantees you the freedom of speech (among other things), but the courts and government have put limitations on the extent of your free speech (most famous being the whole yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre and hate laws). I've used the whole automobile/airplane argument because of the immense responsibilities one must have and competency shown to the government to be able to use them. You can have responsible gun laws without infringing on the 2nd Amendment, just like you can have some restrictions on the freedom of speech without infringing on the 1st Amendment. Unfortunately, there are those that seem to want the Hollywoodized version of the Old West, where the rule of law bows before the firearm, and that's where thousands die each year.

395 Mocking Jay  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:57:13pm

re: #392 Lidane

We're too busy killing off health care for women. Give it time.

My hat's off to you on that one. True pioneers...

396 jaunte  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:58:12pm

This is why I refer to the NRA as a manufacturer's lobbying group.

397 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:58:16pm

re: #381 Targetpractice

I can't hold out my optimism, because so far, all I've heard is a case built primarily on circumstantial evidence. Or, at least that's what it's going to look like to a jury, huge gaps in the picture that the prosecution is going to be limited in filling in without being accused of "speculation."

The hurdle to get over is to disprove Zimmerman's story, which is rendered an almost insurmountable task by the cops accepting it at face value and not doing so much as a test for alcohol or drugs in his system.

There still could be evidence that's being protected.

There's this, also.

[Link: www.heraldtribune.com...]

Attorneys: Trayvon Martin killing was not self-defense

SARASOTA - Local attorneys who have successfully defended accused murderers using Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law say it is a good tactic for law-abiding citizens who are threatened, but would be misapplied in the Trayvon Martin case.

Martin, 17, an unarmed black teenager, was killed Feb. 26 in a gated town-house community in Sanford when he was shot by a crime watch volunteer as he walked home from a convenience store.

George Zimmerman, 28, reported a suspicious person to 911 and then followed Martin. Zimmerman, described as white Hispanic, has not been arrested. He told police he fired on Trayvon Martin in self defense when the teenager attacked him.

Bradenton attorney Charlie Britt and Eric Reisinger of Sarasota have successfully defended clients using the "Stand Your Ground" defense, and both were surprised that Martin's accused shooter has not yet been charged.

398 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:58:41pm

And I'm off to bed. Nite ya'll.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 8:59:22pm

re: #383 jaunte

* Offer available in these states:
Image: stand-ground-map4-600px.png

My husband's desire to move to Oregon seems less reasonable now.

400 Lidane  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:00:24pm

re: #395 High Priest of Darwinism

Heh. Read through the comments over at Rick Perry's FB page. Hilarious stuff. Lots of snark from women and some men. It's glorious.

401 BryanS  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:00:47pm

re: #393 High Priest of Darwinism

Did you happen to miss the key adjective in that sentence?

That the kid was black? Even if Zimmerman hates black people, it's hard to feel threatened by a boy of that stature. That only means the threat excuse was just that--an excuse and not a real reason.

402 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:01:30pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

And I am a rhetorical girl.

OH, is THAT what you call i!

403 BongCrodny  Wed, Mar 21, 2012 9:56:38pm

re: #373 jaunte

[Link: articles.orlandosentinel.com...]

"George is going to suffer for years and years," [Robert Zimmerman] said.

Not even a fraction as much as Trayvon Martin's parents.

404 boxhead  Thu, Mar 22, 2012 1:35:27am

Santorum, being a Catholic, must not know that the Catholic Church acknowledges evolution. What a travesty the GOP candidates are.

405 labman57  Thu, Mar 22, 2012 6:54:12am

re: #188 Lidane

I believe that is exactly what I said in the following two sentences:
"It would make a fine topic for discussion or debate in a social studies course on Religions in Society. But this topic has no business in a biology classroom, since science is based on verifiable evidence along with empirically and mathematically testable hypotheses, whereas religious beliefs are by definition faith-based."

406 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Mar 22, 2012 6:13:14pm

re: #404 boxhead

Santorum, being a Catholic, must not know that the Catholic Church acknowledges evolution. What a travesty the GOP candidates are.

Santorum is an opus dei weirdo, he doesn't give a shit about normal catholicism


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