How Big Is Mitt Romney's La Jolla Mansion?

How Big Is Mitt Romney’s La Jolla Mansion?

Man of the people

PoliticsMarch 2012 • Views: 31,960

Mitt Romney’s mansion on the beach at La Jolla, California, is really big. Really, really big.

So big, in fact, that when his $12 million renovation is complete, it will actually have an elevator.

LA JOLLA, Calif. — If the news last summer that Mitt Romney had a $12 million expansion planned for his oceanfront property here helped portray him as a member of the top 1 percent, the new disclosure that the renovation includes elevators for his four-car garage is not likely to burnish his image as a man of the people.

Plans for the expansion, first reported by Politico and later obtained by The New York Times from a rival campaign, include a split-level, four-car garage with a “car lift,” an outdoor shower, and a 3,600-square-foot basement.

Lavish Lifestyles of the Rich and Republican

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136 comments

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:22:44pm

"My wife drives a couple of Cadillacs, actually."

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:23:06pm

You don't expect the cars to walk up stairs, do you?!?

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:23:53pm

"I get speaker fees from time to time, but not very much."

($374K)

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:24:28pm

But don't call him rich.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:24:46pm

A man of the people, he is. *rolls eyes*

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:24:53pm

///Does he at least remember how many homes he owns?

jc717 Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:26:04pm

Wow, 11/2012 will be such a GOP train wreck.
Unfortunately, they'll take the wrong message from it... that their candidate was a RINO and that if only he were a 'true conservative', he would have won.

darthstar Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:26:20pm

re: #2 wrenchwench

You don't expect the cars to walk up stairs, do you?!?

win

erik_t Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:26:20pm

This is actually his back-up house, right? Not primary house?

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:28:22pm

Come on, Charles, you missed the best part!

And the Obama campaign also took a jab at Mr. Romney’s hiring of Matthew A. Peterson, a lawyer in San Diego, to ease the way for construction permits. Since 2008, Mr. Romney has paid Mr. Peterson $21,500 to lobby city officials for the renovation.

He has a lobbyist for his house!

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:28:34pm

And yet, come this fall, you can bet that the Right will be working themselves into a lather if you suggest for a second that Romney's nothing more than another rich prick running for office.

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:28:50pm

re: #9 erik_t

This is actually his back-up house, right? Not primary house?

Its his tertiary house, in case something happens to the first 2.

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:29:09pm

re: #10 iossarian

Come on, Charles, you missed the best part!

He has a lobbyist for his house!

//I won't start worrying till the house becomes big enough to get its own congressman.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:29:31pm

You got it all wrong. It's not his mansion at all.

It's his garden shack.

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:29:35pm

To be fair, I hired a lobbyist last year to get the city to plate the fire hydrant outside my house in platinum.

Much classier than the old red paint it used to have.

erik_t Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:30:09pm

re: #12 Kragar

Its his tertiary house, in case something happens to the first 2.

The... speaker (of the) house?

bluecheese Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:32:39pm

could somebody please explain to me what a car elevator in a garage is use for?

is this for doing oil changes or something?

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:33:43pm

Remember, if you think it's disgusting that children die of preventable diseases in the US while Romney watches his wife's Cadillacs glide up and down in the magical automobile elevator, you're just practicing the politics of envy (you filthy hippie, you).

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:33:58pm

re: #17 bluecheese

could somebody please explain to me what a car elevator in a garage is use for?

is this for doing oil changes or something?

It proves he is quite poor in fact. Can't afford a dedicated Cadillac for each floor.

lawhawk Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:34:07pm

So, he's got a whole lot of cars and homes.

That's not what bothers me about Romney.

It's that his positions have gone so far to the right that they're unrecognizable and show his pandering to the right wing to be so complete as to make him unelectable (and he's the GOP's "best" - and only - chance at that in the race).

jaunte Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:34:22pm

So big, in fact, that it actually has an elevator. For his cars.

Maybe he's expecting the sea level to rise.

erik_t Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:34:34pm

re: #17 bluecheese

could somebody please explain to me what a car elevator in a garage is use for?

is this for doing oil changes or something?

Oh, hell, I hope the reports don't just mean a lift. That is juuust slightly different.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:34:38pm

re: #18 iossarian

I'm waiting for rwmofo, but you stole his material.

makeitstopghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:34:48pm

re: #17 bluecheese

could somebody please explain to me what a car elevator in a garage is use for?

is this for doing oil changes or something?

I think it raises and lowers to get at different cars.

Basically lets you park 4 cars in a two-car garage.

lawhawk Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:35:21pm

re: #17 bluecheese

Maximizes space - you don't need room for ramps to get down to the basement/sublevels so you can get more vehicles parked in the same square footage. NYC apartments and some garages here use elevators rather than ramps to maximize storage for cars.

However, if we're talking lifts - it allows two cars (or more depending on height) of garage to share the same footprint).

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:35:34pm

re: #20 lawhawk

So, he's got a whole lot of cars and homes.

That's not what bothers me about Romney.

It's that his positions have gone so far to the right that they're unrecognizable and show his pandering to the right wing to be so complete as to make him unelectable (and he's the GOP's "best" - and only - chance at that in the race).

Is this a problem with Romney, or with the GOP? Romney's an ass, but he's a symptom rather than the disease itself.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:35:34pm

re: #24 makeitstop

I think it raises and lowers to get at different cars.

Basically lets you park 4 cars in a two-car garage.

See! He is poor.

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:37:19pm

re: #27 'M AFFN FUN

See! He is poor.

"After I pay for all this crap, I barely have any money left in the petty cash trust fund."

iossarian Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:37:52pm

OK, I've got to go and roll around in a swimming pool full of money for a bit. Be safe out there everyone! Watch out for people who might want to shoot you for looking a bit funny!

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:38:00pm

Heh, on a related note, CNN just sent me a bulletin saying that a poll run has a majority of Republicans thinking that Newt and Crazy Uncle Ron should end their bids.

When you're talking two men whose egos have large enough to have small moons orbiting them, I have only two words to this poll: "Good luck."

bluecheese Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:38:06pm

how does it work?

ive never even heard of such a thing.

lawhawk Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:38:28pm

re: #26 iossarian

Take a few from column A and a few from column B. He's a symptom and product of the GOP's shift to the right. He could have taken a stand against the right wing so-con steering into regional party obsolesce, but instead chose to pander. That might win him some GOP support, but at the loss of independents who might otherwise have gone with him but for those so-con positions.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:38:40pm

re: #29 iossarian

OK, I've got to go and roll around in a swimming pool full of money for a bit. Be safe out there everyone! Watch out for people who might want to shoot you for looking a bit funny!

OK, Uncle Scrooge!

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:38:47pm

Romney could fit about 6 apartments the size of mine in his basement.

I'll bet you anything his garage is bigger than my apartment.

jaunte Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:38:58pm

re: #31 bluecheese

Here's one:
[Link: www.geekologie.com...]

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:40:09pm

re: #32 lawhawk

Take a few from column A and a few from column B. He's a symptom and product of the GOP's shift to the right. He could have taken a stand against the right wing so-con steering into regional party obsolesce, but instead chose to pander. That might win him some GOP support, but at the loss of independents who might otherwise have gone with him but for those so-con positions.

Thing about it is that Romney's pandering is the disease, not the symptom. The man is bound and determined to win the presidency, even if it means dressing in flannel and grinning as he chokes down cheesy grits. He's been like this for over a decade, why would he stop now? Anybody who thinks that he was ever gonna run as a "moderate" is fooling themselves.

Achilles Tang Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:42:06pm

Romney, in a CNN interview Monday, had referred to Russia as “our No. 1 geopolitical foe,” prompting Medvedev to tell reporters here that the former Massachusetts governor’s language seemed out of date and “smelled of Hollywood” stereotypes.
“Regarding ideological cliches, every time this or that side uses phrases like ‘enemy No. 1,’ this always alarms me,” Medvedev said Tuesday in remarks broadcast on Russian television.

“All U.S. presidential candidates [should] do two things,” he said. “Use their head and consult their reason” and “look at his watch: We are in 2012 and not the mid-1970s.”

bluecheese Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:42:34pm

re: #35 jaunte
lol. thanks.

so in your example, could you park another car under the one displayed in your living room?

makeitstopghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:42:53pm

re: #31 bluecheese

how does it work?

ive never even heard of such a thing.

Subterranean garage elevator

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:42:57pm

re: #34 CuriousLurker

Romney could fit about 6 apartments the size of mine in his basement.

I'll bet you anything his garage is bigger than my apartment.

I'm pretty sure his bathroom is bigger than your apartment.

Lidanghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:43:04pm

But remember kids -- Barack Obama is the elitist.

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:43:34pm

re: #40 'M AFFN FUN

I'm pretty sure his bathroom is bigger than your apartment.

LOL, probably!

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:43:58pm

re: #42 CuriousLurker

LOL, probably!

A lot of people could live in his walk-in closet too.

Lidanghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:44:02pm

re: #34 CuriousLurker

Romney could fit about 6 apartments the size of mine in his basement.

I'll bet you anything his garage is bigger than my apartment.

His wife probably has a shoe closet larger than my apartment.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:44:04pm

re: #41 Lidane

But remember kids -- Barack Obama is the elitist.

He eats arugula, for God's sake! Who eats that?!

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:44:15pm

re: #40 'M AFFN FUN

I'm pretty sure his bathroom is bigger than your apartment.

Well, only one or two of them. I'm sure some of the bathrooms are smaller.

Ben G. Hazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:44:34pm

re: #39 makeitstop

Subterranean garage elevator

If I had a need of one and the means, I'd get one.

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:44:43pm

re: #45 Targetpractice

I'll bet Romney does...

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:44:51pm

re: #43 'M AFFN FUN

A lot of people could live in his walk-in closet too.

Probably enough room in the backyard to hold a small village.

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:45:01pm

Your afternoon dose of "heh"

Ben G. Hazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:45:44pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

Probably enough room in the backyard to hold a small village.

Of serfs.

It's good to be the King.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:45:48pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

Probably enough room in the backyard to hold a small village.

Right between the cognac fountain and the platinum statues garden.

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:46:00pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

Probably enough room in the backyard to hold a small village.

The Pacific Ocean is his backyard.

Ben G. Hazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:47:30pm

re: #50 Kragar

Your afternoon dose of "heh"

Awesome sauce.

blueraven Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:47:36pm

You know, it would not be a big deal about how big his house is, except for the fact that he wants to give even more advantages to people like him.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:48:05pm

I wonder where his gardner keeps his 2 Cadillacs though.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:48:28pm

re: #55 blueraven

You know, it would not be a big deal about how big his house is, except for the fact that he wants to give even more advantages to people like him.

Personally, I consider it a big deal about his house if for no other than reason than the wingnuts have spent years bringing up Al Gore's own home anytime you bring up the subject of climate change.

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:48:40pm

re: #51 talon_262

Of serfs.

It's good to be the King.

It is right by the beach.

Serfs up!

Ben G. Hazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:49:12pm

re: #58 Kragar

It is right by the beach.

Serfs up!

*groan*

///

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:49:58pm

re: #58 Kragar

It is right by the beach.

Serfs up!

*blows whistle* Two minutes in the penalty box, bad punning!

Varek Raith Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:51:21pm

If him being 'unemployed' means affording a car lift, I got screwed.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:52:08pm

re: #61 Varek Raith

If him being 'unemployed' means affording a car lift, I got screwed.

You and me both. All I got for being unemployed last time was bills, bills, and more bills.

allegro Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:52:24pm

Well, just so long as his wife doesn't feel wealthy. Makes ya wonder what it would take to make her feel wealthy, don't it.

Daniel Ballard Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:52:33pm

The true measure of a fiscal conservative is his car barn.
///

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:52:47pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

You and me both. All I got for being unemployed last time was bills, bills, and more bills.

100$ bills you mean?

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:52:53pm

re: #61 Varek Raith

If him being 'unemployed' means affording a car lift, I got screwed.

Varek, I found your listing in the personals

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:53:53pm

re: #66 Kragar

Varek, I found your listing in the personals

Hmm, what were you searching for, old man?/

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:54:38pm

When Romney said he wanted to run the country like a business, I never would have guessed he meant like a parking garage.

SpaceJesus Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:54:43pm

Thats nothing compared to what Im saving for

[Link: www.missilebases.com...]

ghazidor Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:55:35pm

"Mitt Romney, Creating Jobs for people who build car elevators."

"Mitt Romney, creating jobs for carpenters, plumbers, and electricians right in his own home."

Romney 2012

Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:55:50pm

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:56:06pm

re: #67 'M AFFN FUN

Hmm, what were you searching for, old man?/

Oh, the usual...

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:56:52pm

re: #71 Learned Mother of Zion

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

David Wong is an awesome writer.

Varek Raith Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:00:51pm

re: #72 Kragar

Oh, the usual...

Hahaha! Multiple entendre!
-Phil Ken Sebben

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:03:38pm

re: #18 iossarian

Remember, if you think it's disgusting that children die of preventable diseases in the US while Romney watches his wife's Cadillacs glide up and down in the magical automobile elevator, you're just practicing the politics of envy (you filthy hippie, you).

Remember: Teddy Kennedy had an awful lot of money too.

Eh, whatever. I actually don't care if Romney has an elevator for his Cadillacs, or, for that matter, a wig for his wig.

He needs something to console himself for not being president.

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:04:43pm

re: #74 Varek Raith

Hahaha! Multiple entendre!
-Phil Ken Sebben

I was going to try an innuendo, but she just wasn't into it.

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:05:05pm

re: #55 blueraven

You know, it would not be a big deal about how big his house is, except for the fact that he wants to give even more advantages to people like him.

Well, and the fact that I'm occasionally asked to get hysterical when the current first lady spends five hundred dollars on her shoes.

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:10:12pm

re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist

He needs something to console himself for not being president.

And if that 'something to console himself' is one of the things that kept him from becoming president, so much the better.

Lidanghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:14:25pm

CNN Poll: 43 Percent Of Republicans Want A Brokered Convention

A new national poll from CNN shows that many Republicans might be warming up to the idea of a brokered convention -- 53 percent said the nominee should be chosen by the primaries and caucuses, but 43 percent say chosing the party standard bearer at August's Republican National Convetion in Tampa Bay, Florida.

The numbers underline the enthusiasm issue within the Republican primary process, as GOPers have failed to coalese around former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney while polling has shown their general disatisfaction with the field of candidates.

erik_t Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:16:35pm

re: #79 Lidane

CNN Poll: 43 Percent Of Republicans Want A Brokered Convention

If God loves me, this primary season will never end.

abolitionist Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:17:12pm

How big? It only has one time zone.
/Just like everyone else's

Lidanghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:22:05pm

re: #80 erik_t

If God loves me, this primary season will never end.

On that note:

Newt's Big Idea: A Convention Debate. Good Times!

Yes, because what this campaign needs is another Republican debate, this time in front of a half-swilled audience desperate to get back to the Mons Venus before the shift changes. I do have a serious question, though. Gingrich never shuts up about debating people. He's always begging the president to engage him in six "Lincoln-Douglas-style" debates. He even made that part of the raison d'etre of his candidacy. Has anyone ever seen him actually debate someone, one on one, and John King doesn't count. Sure, he was willing to mix it up with the rest of the folks in the clown car this year. but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about having another human being look him in the eye and tell him, "Newt, you're 20 pounds of bullshit in a 10 pound bag. Let me tell you what you don't know about (choose any topic)." I would pay good American cash money to see that.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:23:17pm

re: #82 Lidane

On that note:

Newt's Big Idea: A Convention Debate. Good Times!

Have I thanked you yet for linking me to that blog?

Ben G. Hazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:24:41pm

re: #71 Learned Mother of Zion

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

re: #73 Kragar

David Wong is an awesome writer.

That Cracked article should be be required reading for RWNJs and glibertarians, à la Clockwork Orange (with forced-open eyelids) if need be.

Lidanghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:24:56pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

Have I thanked you yet for linking me to that blog?

Haha, probably. I adore Charlie Pierce. Every election needs someone willing to call out the obvious bullshit and make people laugh through the idiocy.

Bob Dillon Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:25:46pm

Having lived and worked in La Jolla I can commend him on his selection of real estate. However his critical thinking skills could use some work because everyone in the La Jolla area will not vote for him. Traffic in and out of La Jolla is tough to say the least throw in an SS escort and it will be gridlock for the rest of the day unless he plans on moving around via boat or helo and I just don't see that as an option.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:29:25pm

re: #79 Lidane

CNN Poll: 43 Percent Of Republicans Want A Brokered Convention

Buyer's remorse slowly setting in as those who gave early wins to Newt are now watching his campaign fall apart and wish they'd voted for Santorum or even for Paul.

Like I was saying earlier, CNN/ORC released a poll, showing that 6 in 10 of Republicans polled want Newt and Crazy Uncle Ron to drop their bids, but also want Santorum to stay in the hunt. This will come as a shock to absolutely nobody, as both campaigns were deemed DOA a month ago.

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:39:39pm

La Jolla is a nice place to visit, during the weekday when the vacation crowd isn't there. I wouldn't want to live there as getting in and out of the place is a pain because of all the cars and the limited thoroughfares. And the Romneys are going to bring more cars?

Lidanghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:40:57pm

re: #87 Targetpractice

Like I was saying earlier, CNN/ORC released a poll, showing that 6 in 10 of Republicans polled want Newt and Crazy Uncle Ron to drop their bids, but also want Santorum to stay in the hunt. This will come as a shock to absolutely nobody, as both campaigns were deemed DOA a month ago.

Ha! Crazy Uncle Ron has nothing to lose anymore. He's retiring from Congress and this is his last hurrah. He's got no incentive to leave the race. And Newt's ego and his Super PAC backers hate Romney enough to keep him in the race no matter how pathetic his numbers are.

Personally, I hope that if God exists, he's got enough of a sense of humor to bless all of us with a GOP primary that goes through to the convention, just to give Colbert and Stewart material.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:42:23pm

re: #89 Lidane

Ha! Crazy Uncle Ron has nothing to lose anymore. He's retiring from Congress and this is his last hurrah. He's got no incentive to leave the race. And Newt's ego and his Super PAC backers hate Romney enough to keep him in the race no matter how pathetic his numbers are.

Personally, I hope that if God exists, he's got enough of a sense of humor to bless all of us with a GOP primary that goes through to the convention, just to give Colbert and Stewart material.

That's really a sad indictment of the GOP, that they have one "inevitable" candidate and three hangers on whose entire plan at this point is "Deny the 'inevitable' candidate the easy win," hoping they can force a brokered convention where they will come out on top.

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:43:37pm

I want to slap the shit out of the tech at a remote site.

We've got a device on site which never reboots properly after patching, so we went thru the procedure for him to check it out. He responds "Manually rebooted", ticket closed.

It happens again, "Manually rebooted", ticket closed. We do this about every 2 weeks since last fall.

We email him, "hey whats up with the machine? Do we need to get it rebuilt? Why does it hang on reboots? Seeing any error messages?" We get nothing back from him.

We put in a special ticket for his group, "The device doesn't reboot properly, here are the dozens of other tickets we've opened, please provide a response on what needs to be done to fix it."

"Manually rebooted", ticket closed.

FUCKING ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKER!

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:50:20pm

Ah... math...

Fox News reporter: Temperature ‘hasn’t changed much since the Ice Age’

[...]

“The temperature basically hasn’t changed much since the Ice Age,” Byrnes announced. “But this notion that we’re now getting to a point where carbon dioxide is bad, I mean, I think these guys have pretty much fallen over the cliff.” [...]

I've written before that I think one of the problems with climate change as a political issue is that temperature change is predicted to be in only single digit temps, and the measured change so far in tenths of degrees.

It's such a small number.

Instead, scientists ought to report the changes in milliKelvin. Then the numbers will be bigger, and the public will be more impressed.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:50:36pm

So what happens if SCOTUS strikes down the individual mandate? What are the next steps, if any?

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:50:56pm

re: #93 'M AFFN FUN

Back to the drawing board.

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:51:20pm

re: #93 'M AFFN FUN

So what happens if SCOTUS strikes down the individual mandate? What are the next steps, if any?

Depends.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:52:11pm

re: #94 freetoken

re: #95 Targetpractice

And in terms of the elections?

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:52:39pm

re: #96 'M AFFN FUN

re: #95 Targetpractice

And in terms of the elections?

Again, it depends.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:54:17pm

re: #97 Targetpractice

Best case/worst case?

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:55:00pm

re: #98 'M AFFN FUN

Best case/worst case?

Best case at this point is that the mandate gets upheld.

Worst case depends on whether or not the law as a whole gets struck down.

100

Shvaughn Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:55:14pm

re: #98 'M AFFN FUN

Best case/worst case?

Could deprive the Republican candidate of a talking point, i.e., "I will repeal Obamacare!"

101

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:55:19pm

re: #96 'M AFFN FUN

Unknown (at least by me.) On the one hand, the Democratic "base" might be energized by a SCOTUS decision... or maybe not. Likewise with the GOP faithful. The American public is so fickle and has such a short memory that I still think anything can happen.

102

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:58:20pm

re: #101 freetoken

Unknown (at least by me.) On the one hand, the Democratic "base" might be energized by a SCOTUS decision... or maybe not. Likewise with the GOP faithful. The American public is so fickle and has such a short memory that I still think anything can happen.

It could galvanize either or both sides, depending on the specific decision. One thing that's certain is the GOP will respond negatively to any or all of the law being upheld. How the Dems will respond is rather difficult to determine, considering that the GOP has had two years to poison the well.

103

allegro Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:58:57pm

re: #99 Targetpractice

Best case at this point is that the mandate gets upheld.

Worst case depends on whether or not the law as a whole gets struck down.

I can't wholeheartedly support Obamacare as it currently stands because the idea of being forced to pay into a corrupt for-profit medical insurance industry just chaps me. I hate doing it voluntarily, if by voluntarily you mean that I will get sick and die broke and homeless without it. If the mandate getting shot down would lead to single payer, I will happily pay for the bullets. If it means going backwards to the evil of the system before the reforms, 'nother story.

104

ghazidor Tue, Mar 27, 2012 2:59:53pm

re: #91 Kragar

I want to slap the shit out of the tech at a remote site.

We've got a device on site which never reboots properly after patching, so we went thru the procedure for him to check it out. He responds "Manually rebooted", ticket closed.

It happens again, "Manually rebooted", ticket closed. We do this about every 2 weeks since last fall.

We email him, "hey whats up with the machine? Do we need to get it rebuilt? Why does it hang on reboots? Seeing any error messages?" We get nothing back from him.

We put in a special ticket for his group, "The device doesn't reboot properly, here are the dozens of other tickets we've opened, please provide a response on what needs to be done to fix it."

"Manually rebooted", ticket closed.

FUCKING ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKER!

If everything works perfectly and can be remotely rebooted then you might "take away their jorbs!"

///

105

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:00:04pm

In a preemptive strike, the WSJ has yet another editorial by Will Happer, claiming CO2 is good, etc. etc.:

Global Warming Models Are Wrong Again

Happer is being nothing but maliciously misleading. He knows about chaotic systems but he also knows his audience is stupid and his sugar daddies have lots of money.

106

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:00:43pm

re: #103 allegro

I can't wholeheartedly support Obamacare as it currently stands because the idea of being forced to pay into a corrupt for-profit medical insurance industry just chaps me. I hate doing it voluntarily, if by voluntarily you mean that I will get sick and die broke and homeless without it. If the mandate getting shot down would lead to single payer, I will happily pay for the bullets. If it means going backwards to the evil of the system before the reforms, 'nother story.

If the mandate itself gets struck but the rest of the law ruled legal, then the political battle begins anew. Because voters won't want to return to the previous status-quo, but the GOP's been hard at work for two years now convincing them that the law is "socialism" and that old status-quo the ideal form of things.

107

kirghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:03:19pm

re: #91 Kragar

Have your boss send his boss a copy of both the special and the reply. Don't forget to cc it to whoever it is upline where the two chains of command merge. Oh, don't forget to add the estimated cost sheet for manual rebooting. (system down for x time at $y per hour per delay for call to manual reboot at z times per year is $$$$ lost due to need for manaul reboot.) To stop losing this money, what needs replaced?

(And why isn't this idiot helping us plug this money-hole?)

108

William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:03:34pm

re: #98 'M AFFN FUN

Best case/worst case?

Best case? Mandate gets struck down, backlash leads to real health care reform and America gets Single Payer.
Likely Case? Status Quo
Worst Case? The whole thing gets struck down and the Republicans prevent any other reform.

109

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:04:04pm

re: #105 freetoken

In a preemptive strike, the WSJ has yet another editorial by Will Happer, claiming CO2 is good, etc. etc.:

Global Warming Models Are Wrong Again

Happer is being nothing but maliciously misleading. He knows about chaotic systems but he also knows his audience is stupid and his sugar daddies have lots of money.

When the sea levels rise, I'm building my ark out of deniers.

110

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:04:18pm

re: #106 Targetpractice

Because voters won't want to return to the previous status-quo, but the GOP's been hard at work for two years now convincing them that the law is "socialism" and that old status-quo the ideal form of things.

Also, that Obamacare will kill them, and that the old status-quo really didn't let anyone die, not for realsies.

111

Bob Dillon Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:05:37pm

Late 80s the German government tried to mandate that all German citizens had to buy a radiation suit. Even in Germany it did not fly - people were really upset with that one. Government mandates restrict and/or eliminate personal freedom. There has to be a better way but these brilliant congresscritters can't seem to find a way to do it without feathering their nests at the same time.

112

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:05:56pm

re: #108 William Barnett-Lewis

Best case? Mandate gets struck down, backlash leads to real health care reform and America gets Single Payer.
Likely Case? Status Quo
Worst Case? The whole thing gets struck down and the Republicans ~~prevent any other reform.~~ spend election playing up "market-based" solutions.

FTFY

113

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:06:43pm

re: #109 Kragar

WSJ is preparing for an onslaught of news reports with an upcoming IPCC report due (not just the big one next year, but also one soon on weather, I believe), and with the current preparations for Rio+20, including this weeks conference in London (about which I wrote yesterday.)

114

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:07:05pm

re: #111 Bob Dillon

Late 80s the German government tried to mandate that all German citizens had to buy a radiation suit. Even in Germany it did not fly - people were really upset with that one. Government mandates restrict and/or eliminate personal freedom. There has to be a better way but these brilliant congresscritters can't seem to find a way to do it without feathering their nests at the same time.

That would be because the mandate itself was a joke to begin with, back when the GOP pushed it in the 90's. The current insurance system is a joke and trying to rely upon that to fix...well, itself, was a mistake.

115

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:08:35pm

Speaking of La Jolla:

Who Owns the Past?

A rare set of nearly 10,000-year-old human bones found in 1976 on a seaside bluff in La Jolla, Calif., may soon be removed from the custody of the University of California, San Diego, and turned over to the local Kumeyaay Nation tribes. The Kumeyaay have long sought control over the bones, which they contend are the remains of their ancestors. In accordance with new federal regulations, the university has initiated the legal process to transfer the remains to the Kumeyaay in the absence of other claimants. The Kumeyaay have said they may rebury the bones. Being some of the oldest human skeletal remains in North America, the bones could help scientists piece together the peopling of the New World. The excellent preservation of the specimens hints that they might contain DNA suitable for analysis with techniques geneticists have recently developed—the results of which could yield crucial insights into where early Americans came from. Such studies may never come to pass.

[...]

I doubt that these bones are the ancestors of the Kumeyaay. They could be, but a DNA analysis would answer that.

But they don't want that to happen.

116

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:08:35pm

Even public option was off the table from the beginning during the healthcare debate in Congress. Single payer has a snowball's chance in hell.

117

Kragarghazi Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:09:26pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, that Obamacare will kill them, and that the old status-quo really didn't let anyone die, not for realsies.

"With the repeal of Obamacare, all Americans will become immortal!" - GOP

118

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:09:59pm

re: #116 'M AFFN FUN

Even public option was off the table from the beginning during the healthcare debate in Congress. Single payer has a snowball's chance in hell.

And that's the unfortunate reality, that the people want real reform, but their elected "representatives" have too much lobbyist money in keeping the old system going.

119

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:10:12pm

re: #115 freetoken

That's just stupid. They should prove those are their ancestors.

120

Bob Dillon Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:10:48pm

re: #114 Targetpractice

That would be because the mandate itself was a joke to begin with, back when the GOP pushed it in the 90's. The current insurance system is a joke and trying to rely upon that to fix...well, itself, was a mistake.

I was aware of Hillarycare in the 90s. What GOP version?

121

Shvaughn Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:11:22pm

re: #120 Bob Dillon

I was aware of Hillarycare in the 90s. What GOP version?

The version with the mandate in it.

122

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:12:00pm

re: #119 'M AFFN FUN

Since they are the only claimants (no other native group has stepped forward to claim the remains) there is no basis for testing to make sure. The law doesn't recognize "science" as a claimant.

123

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:13:02pm

re: #122 freetoken

That's why it's stupid. Stupid laws written by stupid people.

124

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:13:26pm

re: #115 freetoken

Speaking of La Jolla:

Who Owns the Past?

I doubt that these bones are the ancestors of the Kumeyaay. They could be, but a DNA analysis would answer that.

But they don't want that to happen.

It's a rerun of the Kennewick Man case.

125

blueraven Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:13:42pm

re: #111 Bob Dillon

Late 80s the German government tried to mandate that all German citizens had to buy a radiation suit. Even in Germany it did not fly - people were really upset with that one. Government mandates restrict and/or eliminate personal freedom. There has to be a better way but these brilliant congresscritters can't seem to find a way to do it without feathering their nests at the same time.

That is really a different animal.
The idea of the mandate is that if all people participate in heath-care cost, it will be less of a burden for some. Predicated on the fact that we have an obligation to take care of the sick and injured no matter what.

That is not true with radiation suits.

126

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:14:41pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

Yup.

Unfortunately, Congress didn't really have anyone lobbying on the side of science when they wrote these laws.

127

Targetpractice Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:16:37pm

re: #120 Bob Dillon

I was aware of Hillarycare in the 90s. What GOP version?

Heritage wrote up alternatives (warning: PDF) back in the day that the GOP took to heart and offered as their own during the Hillarycare debacle. One of the items they spoke at length about, championed to a great degree, was an "individual mandate." Though, back then, they loved it because it was a "market-based solution."

128

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:17:22pm

Not yet time to go off topic in the new thread... so I'll throw it in here:

Just wait till the creationists get a hold of this one:

Non-exponential decays and carbon dating

Radioactive decay is often assumed exponential, and in many cases that turns out to be a good description. However, in radioactive carbon dating, there are disagreements between radiocarbon dates and dates from dendrochronology (counting tree rings). These have traditionally been attributed to variations in atmospheric carbon-14 levels, but Philip Aston of the University of Surrey points out that strictly exponential decay is impossible in quantum mechanics (using energy instead of time gives a non-normalizable Lorentzian); he also shows that predicted atmospheric affects that assume exponential decay do not match predictions from modelling.

For slowly decaying isotopes there is little direct experimental knowledge of the decay curves over long times, so dating based not only on carbon-14 but also on other isotopes may have to be revisited. Both theoretical and experimental input would be interesting.

Creationists aren't the fastest, but they are dogged. I suspect one or two will pick this up quickly, and it will avalanche from there. I can easily imagine years from now some creationist track siting this article.

129

dragonath Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:17:37pm

Oh yeah, the GOP is going to nominate someone more ostentatious than Nicolae Ceausescu.

130

blueraven Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:17:46pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

Heritage wrote up alternatives (warning: PDF) back in the day that the GOP took to heart and offered as their own during the Hillarycare debacle. One of the items they spoke at length about, championed to a great degree, was an "individual mandate." Though, back then, they loved it because it was a "market-based solution."

also: Personal Responsibility!!

131

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:21:40pm

re: #128 freetoken

Is there any substance there?

132

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:26:53pm

re: #131 'M AFFN FUN

It's a free access paper:

[Link: iopscience.iop.org...]

Have fun.

133

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:32:27pm

re: #132 freetoken

It's a free access paper:

[Link: iopscience.iop.org...]

Have fun.

I wouldn't be able to tell.

I assume if there is anything to it, we'll hear about it on the relevant blogs.

134

freetoken Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:33:15pm

re: #131 'M AFFN FUN

I will say that I think the paper ought to have been reviewed more, and that the IOP journal EPL doesn't exactly earn my praise for letting something like the following into print without more explanation:

Radioactive decay is almost universally believed to satisfy the exponential decay law over many half-lives and in particular cases where it has been tested [1,2] it has been found to accurately represent the decay of an unstable isotope. However, as nuclear physics as a discipline is little over a century old, these experiments have necessarily been restricted to rapidly decaying isotopes. This principle of exponential decay is then assumed to hold in many other situations where there is no direct experimental verification, notably for slowly decaying isotopes which are widely used for dating objects ranging from a few hundred years old, to billions of years old. Newton summarised this situation as follows: "Although in some instances the exponential law has been experimentally well verified over many lifetimes, it has certainly not been checked in many cases in which it is nevertheless assumed to be valid" ([3] p. 608).

It misrepresents the large volume of work measuring half-lives. Sure, the discipline may only be a century old so therefore all of our measurements are very short term compared to the very long lived unstable nuclei, but really, that paragraph is a travesty of reporting on the field of nuclear physics.

Should never let a mathematician publish a paper on experimental nuclear physics - lesson learned.

Just like below, where the experimental nuclear physicist Happer is writing about climatology (and pulling the wool over the wingnuts' eyes) - when a specialist is writing outside of their field one ought to have others come in and write complementary/corrective articles in parallel.

135

909Ghazis Tue, Mar 27, 2012 3:48:33pm

How big is the house? Big enough to fit every version of Mitt Romney ever made.

136

wheat-dogghazi Wed, Mar 28, 2012 2:22:54am

Not that he'll get elected this year, but can Mitts adapt to living in a hovel like the White House? Sounds like it's a big step down from these digs.

Spy Mode Auto

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