Video: George Zimmerman on Night of Trayvon Killing - No Injuries!

What happened to the broken nose and scalp lacerations?
US News • Views: 36,781

ABC News has posted a police surveillance video, showing George Zimmerman on the night he killed Trayvon Martin — and Zimmerman is very obviously not injured at all. Certainly no broken nose, and no visible injuries to his head, despite the recent claims by police that he was punched in the nose by Trayvon and had his head bashed into the pavement.

UPDATE at 3/28/12 5:24:58 pm

It’s getting worse, too: Funeral Director: No Injuries on Trayvon’s Hands.

The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin’s body for burial told HLN’s Nancy Grace Wednesday that he did not see any cuts or bruises on the teen’s hands that would have been indicative of a struggle with George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed the Florida teen.

Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.

“As for his hands and knuckles, I didn’t see any evidence he had been fighting anybody,” Kurtz said. …

While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Martin and how the case was handled.

“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I’ve ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said.

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282 comments

1 Sionainn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:44:38pm

Imagine that. //

2 Lidane  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:44:42pm

For a guy who supposedly had an epic fight for his life against an unarmed kid, he looks remarkably healthy to me.

3 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:44:54pm

It is possible to get a broken nose that doesn't swell much and doesn't bleed, but it's unlikely. And it is possible the paramedics stopped the bleeding from head wounds without using a bandage, but they would seem not that big then.

Are we 100% sure this is from the night of the arrest? he wasn't arrested recently for something else, was he?

4 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:45:14pm

There is only one logical conclusion to draw from all of this, George Zimmerman is really Wolverine, how else could you explain his wounds healing that fast?

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:45:34pm

I am very interested to hear what his lawyer has to say about this tape.

6 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:46:12pm

I can see the cops are obviously concerned about his injuries.
/

7 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:46:30pm

I'm trying to understand one 911 caller having said the man standing over TM "had a white t-shirt", vs other reports that GZ was wearing some sort of red jacket.

8 Lidane  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:46:38pm

re: #5 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I'm interested in hearing what the wingnuts have to say, considering that Zimmerman was supposedly in the fight of his life and had to shoot to defend himself.

9 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:46:48pm

re: #5 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Yes. That would be very interesting to hear those explanations.

10 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:46:49pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Are we 100% sure this is from the night of the arrest? he wasn't arrested recently for something else, was he?

That's the caption at ABC News:

Tapes show neighborhood watchman on night of Trayvon Martin killing.

He's certainly not walking like someone who's been injured either. No blood on his clothes, no bandages. No evidence at all of injuries visible in this video.

11 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:48:08pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

That's the caption at ABC News:

He's certainly not walking like someone who's been injured either. No blood on his clothes, no bandages. No evidence at all of injuries visible in this video.

The cops don't seem to be worried they're dealing with a possible murderer.

12 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:48:34pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Yeah, and I expect we'd have heard if he had some recent arrest, and the clothing matches the description, I think. I'm just being cautious because the media fucks up so often.

13 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:49:29pm

re: #5 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I am very interested to hear what his lawyer has to say about this tape.

I believe his exact comments were "WIFFFFFF!"or at least that was the sound he made while running away so fast he left a lawyer shaped cloud of dust in his wake for a few moments.

14 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:49:50pm

This is really starting to stink now.

15 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:50:17pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

This is really starting to stink now.

"Just some good ole boys..."

16 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:50:38pm

Wow. When they were searching his pockets, I hope that was just procedure after he was in the back seat, and not the first time.

I believe the Sanford Police who have a conscience have released this to ABC.

17 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:51:50pm

re: #12 Obdicut

Yeah, and I expect we'd have heard if he had some recent arrest, and the clothing matches the description, I think. I'm just being cautious because the media fucks up so often.

It's understandable. My first thought was to look for a time stamp, but I'm not seeing one. He's been arrested three thrice before, the last one in '05. But that's doesn't look like a video that's been sitting around on tape or disk for the last 7 years.

I agree with Charles, this now stinks to high heaven. It also certainly explains why the lead homicide investigator thought to try for manslaughter charges.

18 JAFO  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:52:08pm

I thought he was supposed to be fat and out of shape, too.

19 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:53:02pm
20 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:53:46pm

Gee! When the cops detained me for holding a sign that said "Archbigot O'Connor" in front of St. Patrick's Cathedral they were wearing big thick yellow rubber gloves! And I wasn't bleeding.

These cops are handling an injured person with bare hands?

There is a chance he went to the hospital first, isn't there?

21 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:54:48pm

re: #20 ReamWorks

Gee! When the cops detained me for holding a sign that said "Archbigot O'Connor" in front of St. Patrick's Cathedral they were wearing big thick yellow rubber gloves! And I wasn't bleeding.

These cops are handling an injured person with bare hands?

There is a chance he went to the hospital first, isn't there?

According to accounts of the evening "leaked" yesterday, he was whining to go to the hospital while the cops were holding him at the station.

22 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:55:18pm

re: #12 Obdicut

Yeah, and I expect we'd have heard if he had some recent arrest, and the clothing matches the description, I think. I'm just being cautious because the media fucks up so often.

Agreed. I'm a little cautious too but I'm having a difficult time thinking of other explanations here.

23 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:55:38pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

That's the caption at ABC News:

He's certainly not walking like someone who's been injured either. No blood on his clothes, no bandages. No evidence at all of injuries visible in this video.

Shirt is neatly tucked into his pants. Belt is on correctly. No disturbance in the clothing. No ripped clothing or jacket which is common during a struggle. Looks like he just came home from a walk in the park.

24 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:55:39pm

re: #18 Ghost of Tom Joad

I thought he was supposed to be fat and out of shape, too.

He's 5'8" and 250 pounds. That is either globby fat or built enough to fend off a whole gang of 145 pound teenagers without raising a sweat.

25 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:56:04pm

Clothing also doesn't look soiled. No grass marks visible.

26 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:56:08pm

This is why you really need a formal trial with any fatal shooting, even a justified one. "Not guilty by reason of Stand Your Ground" should be a verdict, not a reason to preempt a trial.

27 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:56:58pm

re: #18 Ghost of Tom Joad

I thought he was supposed to be fat and out of shape, too.

Apparently that "changed" too. Amazing isn't it?

28 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:57:11pm

re: #18 Ghost of Tom Joad

I thought he was supposed to be fat and out of shape, too.

Yeah, he carries 250 lbs. pretty well for a 5'9" guy.

29 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:57:55pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

I wish I carried my 180 pounds as well on my 5'10" frame! I look fat! (And bald!)

30 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:58:25pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I'm a little cautious too but I'm having a difficult time thinking of other explanations here.

Like I said above, the first explanation would be "It's an old tape!," but it certainly doesn't look it.

The next will probably be "It's not Zimmerman!" But it looks like him and the clothing matches eyewitness descriptions, so if it's not him, then the Sanford PD needs to tell us who it really is.

31 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:59:03pm

Wiki says he was treated the next day for injuries.

32 JamesWI  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:59:31pm

re: #30 Targetpractice

Like I said above, the first explanation would be "It's an old tape!," but it certainly doesn't look it.

The next will probably be "It's not Zimmerman!" But it looks like him and the clothing matches eyewitness descriptions, so if it's not him, then the Sanford PD needs to tell us who it really is.

If it was an old tape, he'd likely be a whole lot fatter (that chubby mug shot pic we've all seen a million times is from an arrest in 2005)

33 Irving  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 4:59:38pm

I really want to see some provenance on this video. Charles decisively proved years ago that it's all too easy to believe evidence that supports your preconceptions.

34 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:00:03pm

The media makes mistakes, yes, but I seriously doubt that ABC News would identify this as being from the night of the killing if there were any doubt about it.

35 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:00:12pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

Wiki says he was treated the next day for injuries.

So he should be bruised and bloody in that video.

36 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:00:36pm

re: #32 JamesWI

If it was an old tape, he'd likely be a whole lot fatter (that chubby mug shot pic we've all seen a million times is from an arrest in 2005)

He also was wearing different clothing and had more hair on his head. So I think we can safely rule "Old tape" out as a plausible explanation.

37 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:01:43pm

re: #35 Kragar

So he should be bruised and bloody in that video.

His lawyer's claimed the injury to the back of his head would normally require stitches.

38 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:02:03pm

re: #34 Charles Johnson

The media makes mistakes, yes, but I seriously doubt that ABC News would identify this as being from the night of the killing if there were any doubt about it.

I'm just shocked, frankly. If he really was uninjured, this is much worse.

39 allegro  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:02:11pm

Head wounds bleed like muthafuckers. There's not a spot on him.

40 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:02:46pm

re: #34 Charles Johnson

The media makes mistakes, yes, but I seriously doubt that ABC News would identify this as being from the night of the killing if there were any doubt about it.

ABC News has an informant who is providing this. I don't doubt that.

41 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:02:50pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

His lawyer's claimed the injury to the back of his head would normally require stitches.

Scalp injuries bleed like hell.

42 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:03:03pm

re: #38 Obdicut

I'm just shocked, frankly. If he really was uninjured, this is much worse.

If he was uninjured, then the entire cop's report is a sham and the Sanford PD just got caught up in a bombshell of a cover-up.

43 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:04:22pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

Wiki says he was treated the next day for injuries.

After or before he spoke to his lawyer - who told him to go to the hospital?

44 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:04:25pm

re: #42 Targetpractice

If he was uninjured, then the entire cop's report is a sham and the Sanford PD just got caught up in a bombshell of a cover-up.

And their good guys, probably the ones of color, are releasing this stuff to ABC.

I'm jumping to conclusions. But a police dept., isn't just 4 officers.

45 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:05:04pm

I watched this video several times, and I don't understand why the officers allowed him to walk by himself on the far side of the bikes, even though he was cuffed.

46 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:06:52pm

re: #45 Learned Mother of Zion

I watched this video several times, and I don't understand why the officers allowed him to walk by himself on the far side of the bikes, even though he was cuffed.

Yup, no physical control of the prisoner, they aren't treating him like a murder suspect.

47 PeterWolf  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:07:16pm

Police on the scene observed Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head. Zimmerman was provided first aid when he was placed in the back of the police car at the scene.
[Link: media.trb.com...]

Which might account for the lack of blood in the video. But sure as hell, I don't see a broken nose either. And he sure doesn't look like he was involved in a life or death physical fight.

48 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:08:31pm

re: #45 Learned Mother of Zion

I watched this video several times, and I don't understand why the officers allowed him to walk by himself on the far side of the bikes, even though he was cuffed.

He leaned against the wall.

They had made their mind up already. Dead "criminal."

49 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:09:13pm

re: #43 Talking Point Detective

After or before he spoke to his lawyer - who told him to go to the hospital?

Says he got a lawyer on March 24th. Like he wasn't worried....

50 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:09:19pm

re: #44 Hoodies for Justice. T

And their good guys, probably the ones of color, are releasing this stuff to ABC.

I'm jumping to conclusions. But a police dept., isn't just 4 officers.

No it's not, the lead homicide investigator has been the only one so far who seems to have had any integrity amongst those we've heard from. And it certainly makes a lot more sense now that he wouldn't buy Zimmerman's story if he reads a statement of a knock-down, drag-out brawl and sees a guy in front of him that's totally uninjured.

51 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:09:39pm

re: #48 Hoodies for Justice. T

He leaned against the wall.

They had made their mind up already. Dead "criminal."

Kid was a john doe at the time. If he had stayed that way, it would have been business as usual.

52 elisabeth  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:09:43pm

re: #47 PeterWolf

Why, though, is there no blood on his shirt? And did he take the time to tuck it in and straighten it? There are certainly some valid question raised by this video.

53 allegro  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:09:46pm

re: #47 PeterWolf

Police on the scene observed Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head. Zimmerman was provided first aid when he was placed in the back of the police car at the scene.
[Link: media.trb.com...]

Which might account for the lack of blood in the video. But sure as hell, I don't see a broken nose either. And he sure doesn't look like he was involved in a life or death physical fight.

Unless he was given a complete change of clothes there should be blood on his shirt and jacket at least. Head wounds bleed a lot. This guy isn't injured.

54 SpikeDad  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:10:51pm

re: #41 Kragar

And would STILL be visible in a video or photo. This would take weeks to heal up. Producing this image would be easy but I've not seen anything.

55 elisabeth  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:10:55pm

re: #45 Learned Mother of Zion

That stuck out to me too although I figured I'd been watching too much Law & Order.

56 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:11:03pm

re: #53 allegro

Unless he was given a complete change of clothes there should be blood on his shirt and jacket at least. Head wounds bleed a lot. This guy isn't injured.

If the gunshot was a close range, as reported in the police report, then there would be spatter on his clothing from that at the very least.

57 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:11:13pm

re: #53 allegro

Also-- shooting someone at close range, if you're underneath them, would result in blood on you, I'd think.

58 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:11:20pm

re: #52 elisabeth

Why, though, is there no blood on his shirt? And did he take the time to tuck it in and straighten it? There are certainly some valid question raised by this video.

I fell on my face one summer and cut my upper lip -- in a motel room. There was blood all over my shirt.

59 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:11:23pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

Says he got a lawyer on March 24th. Like he wasn't worried...

Is that really what he claims, that he didn't contact a lawyer right away?

That has to be a complete lie. If you kill someone under any circumstances, let alone obviously questionable circumstances, you contact a lawyer right away. Anyone would.

60 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:11:54pm

From what I'm hearing, there was one minute of time between the phone call between Trayvon and his girlfriend and when the police arrived at the scene to find him dead.

61 allegro  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:11:58pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

If the gunshot was a close range, as reported in the police report, then there would be spatter on his clothing from that at the very least.

That too.

62 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:12:04pm

re: #59 Talking Point Detective

Prison is full of guys who thought otherwise, and talked to the police at length before asking for a lawyer.

63 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:12:35pm

This would also explain why Zimmerman's lawyer has not produced any pictures of his client's supposed injuries, as even a mother later, a wound to the back of his head that would require stitches would still be in the process of healing.

64 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:12:38pm

Look at how casually they're treating him, too. The cops let him walk around by himself in the garage. This is a guy who's under suspicion at this point for murder - he just killed someone!

This looks really bad for the Sanford PD.

65 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:13:26pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

If the gunshot was a close range, as reported in the police report, then there would be spatter on his clothing from that at the very least.

re: #57 Obdicut

Also-- shooting someone at close range, if you're underneath them, would result in blood on you, I'd think.

This is fucked up.

66 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:14:08pm

re: #59 Talking Point Detective

Is that really what he claims, that he didn't contact a lawyer right away?

That has to be a complete lie. If you kill someone under any circumstances, let alone obviously questionable circumstances, you contact a lawyer right away. Anyone would.

Especially if your Dad is a freaking judge.

Give me a break.

67 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:14:43pm

I'm Back. I am having some trouble with these videos. Both the one Gus linked to and the one Charles linked to.

Where are A. The Camera/Channel numbers and B. The date/time stamps? Even my cheap Home video surveillance system has these two things injected into the video stream prior to recording. The only way to avoid them is to capture the raw video before it hits the recorder.

68 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:14:43pm

The wingers are not very happy about this video tape.

69 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:15:26pm

Just saw the video on TV...I told you the fight was bullshit. Zimmerman's going down.(or should at least face the possibility)

70 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:15:47pm

re: #64 Charles Johnson

Look at how casually they're treating him, too. The cops let him walk around by himself in the garage. This is a guy who's under suspicion at this point for murder - he just killed someone!

This looks really bad for the Sanford PD.

I will, in the interest of fairness, exercise a 24hr rule to give the Sanford PD time to respond. But I can't see how they'll respond in a manner that won't be utter bullshit.

71 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:15:56pm

A wild theory: The bullet in TM's chest wasn't from GZ's gun, but from that of the narcotics officer who (according to reports) arrived on the scene about 60 seconds after the gunshot.

72 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:16:13pm
73 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:16:36pm

I was almost persuaded that he might have been attacked, but this video shows that argument is fatuous.

74 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:16:49pm

re: #68 Gus

The wingers are not very happy about this video tape.

Oh do tell.

It's fake, doctored, from that time the week before when he was arrested for something we don't yet know about...blah

75 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:16:55pm

re: #62 Obdicut

Prison is full of guys who thought otherwise, and talked to the police at length before asking for a lawyer.

Do you really think it's credible that he wouldn't contact a lawyer right away after this incident? That he would wait a month?

Just out of curiosity - does anyone know what precipitated this turning into a shit storm? How did the publicity build?

76 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:16:59pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

I will, in the interest of fairness, exercise a 24hr rule to give the Sanford PD time to respond. But I can't see how they'll respond in a manner that won't be utter bullshit.

They've had 30 days. Fuck 'em.

77 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:18:18pm

Zimmerman caught up to TM, tried to physically restrain TM, TM fights back, Zimmerman loses the upperhand then shoots TM.

78 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:18:40pm

Oh, and note from the above article, Nancy Graaace is on the case.

79 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:18:40pm

re: #75 Talking Point Detective

Do you really think it's credible that he wouldn't contact a lawyer right away after this incident? That he would wait a month?

Just out of curiosity - does anyone know what precipitated this turning into a shit storm? How did the publicity build?

The family and friends of Trayvon started making a big deal of it and it spread via social media (much of it in the black side of the net).

80 PeterWolf  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:18:48pm

re: #53 allegro

Unless he was given a complete change of clothes there should be blood on his shirt and jacket at least. Head wounds bleed a lot. This guy isn't injured.

According to another report, his clothing was taken by the police, but my assumption is that this would have occurred post the video in question. There is indeed a complete lack of blood, which is surprising considering he claims to have fired the shot while the victim was on top of him. Victim would have slumped onto Zimmerman. And not bled on him?

re: #52 elisabeth

Why, though, is there no blood on his shirt? And did he take the time to tuck it in and straighten it? There are certainly some valid question raised by this video.

Sure, no question, that's what I mean about not looking like he had been involved in a life or death struggle. And see above.

81 elisabeth  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:19:40pm

re: #75 Talking Point Detective

Supporters of Zimmerman have said he thought this would go away. Given how the case was treated that night and for several weeks after he may have thought he was in the clear.

82 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:19:41pm

Maybe the police let him go home and take a shower first before going down to the station.

//

83 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:20:01pm

re: #79 Shvaughn

The family and friends of Trayvon started making a big deal of it and it spread via social media (much of it in the black side of the net).

Thanks.

84 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:20:36pm

re: #78 Hoodies for Justice. T

Oh, and note from the above article, Nancy Graaace is on the case.

I think we can safely say that the SPD's chief just got his leave upgraded from temporary to permanent.

85 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:20:41pm

re: #78 Hoodies for Justice. T

Oh, and note from the above article, Nancy Graaace is on the case.

Nancy Fucking Grace? I suppose she's trying to find an angle to help Zimmerman...that woman is pond scum.

86 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:21:17pm

re: #77 SpaceJesus

It's begining to look like that (if there was a struggle at all).

87 allegro  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:21:32pm

He flat out murdered that kid.

88 PeterWolf  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:21:48pm

re: #77 SpaceJesus

Zimmerman caught up to TM, tried to physically restrain TM, TM fights back, Zimmerman loses the upperhand then shoots TM.

This would be my guess too.

89 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:22:17pm

re: #87 allegro

He flat out murdered that kid.

Yep. And after he goes to jail, the family can sue the police for negligence.

90 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:22:38pm

re: #81 elisabeth

Supporters of Zimmerman have said he thought this would go away. Given how the case was treated that night and for several weeks after he may have thought he was in the clear.

I guess it's possible. Seems extremely unlikely to me, however.

91 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:22:46pm

re: #81 elisabeth

Supporters of Zimmerman have said he thought this would go away. Given how the case was treated that night and for several weeks after he may have thought he was in the clear.

John Doe, assumed criminal. Black. The intensity of the SPD. Ya, he probably felt OK. Or something.

92 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:23:15pm
93 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:23:41pm

Wouldn't they have taken a photo of him that night? A good high-resolution photo? Where's that?

94 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:24:03pm

re: #85 darthstar

Nancy Fucking Grace? I suppose she's trying to find an angle to help Zimmerman...that woman is pond scum.

Oh you know, I think she knows where her bacon comes from. This one, just this one, she'll side with Trayvon. (guessing)

95 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:24:34pm

re: #74 Hoodies for Justice. T

Oh do tell.

It's fake, doctored, from that time the week before when he was arrested for something we don't yet know about...blah

Just one Tweet to me which said, "You did read the police report, right? This is stupid." Yeah, police report. I was going to tell him "what did they mention a change of clothing in the police report?" ;)

96 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:24:36pm

re: #75 Talking Point Detective

Do you really think it's credible that he wouldn't contact a lawyer right away after this incident? That he would wait a month?

Yes, sure, if he was released without being charged.

97 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:25:22pm

And it's getting worse: Funeral Director: No Injuries on Trayvon's Hands.

The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin’s body for burial told HLN’s Nancy Grace Wednesday that he did not see any cuts or bruises on the teen’s hands that would have been indicative of a struggle with George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed the Florida teen.

Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.

“As for his hands and knuckles, I didn’t see any evidence he had been fighting anybody,” Kurtz said.

Citing police sources, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told investigators Martin punched him and slammed his head into the ground repeatedly before he fired the shot that killed the unarmed 17-year-old. He claimed he shot Martin in self-defense, and he has not been charged in the case at this point.

While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Martin and how the case was handled.

“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I've ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said.

98 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:26:00pm

It's amazing that ABC took this long to find an actor who looks just like Zimmerman so they could make the fake video.

//

99 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:26:01pm

re: #95 Gus

Just one Tweet to me which said, "You did read the police report, right? This is stupid." Yeah, police report. I was going to tell him "what did they mention a change of clothing in the police report?" ;)

The police report which gets darker and more menacing with each retelling. The one that magically turned Zimmerman getting blindsided after he'd turned towards his SUV to Zimmerman getting sucker punched when confronted by Trayvon?

100 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:26:18pm

re: #95 Gus

Just one Tweet to me which said, "You did read the police report, right? This is stupid." Yeah, police report. I was going to tell him "what did they mention a change of clothing in the police report?" ;)

And the police report where the question is, was he John Doe, or penciled in as Trayvon later. Yah, that police report.

101 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:27:05pm

re: #97 Charles Johnson

And it's getting worse: Funeral Director: No Injuries on Trayvon's Hands.

Damn. Cover-up?

102 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:28:16pm

re: #97 Charles Johnson

And it's getting worse: Funeral Director: No Injuries on Trayvon's Hands.

SPD could easily clear this up by releasing the coroner's report. We knew Michael Jackson's autopsy results within days of his death, yet we still don't even know whether Trayvon was shot from the front or back.

103 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:28:16pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Yes, sure, if he was released without being charged.

Even with his father being a retired magistrate judge? Maybe he didn't call his father either?

104 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:28:47pm

Good point:

105 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:10pm

re: #97 Charles Johnson

And it's getting worse: Funeral Director: No Injuries on Trayvon's Hands.

Wingnuts are likely to start attacking Richard Kurtz now because he's a black man.

106 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:16pm

I thought this case was starting to subside, but this video is a bombshell. A real one, not a Breitbart bombshell.

107 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:20pm

re: #101 Gus

If you die quickly after injuring yourself, normal swelling won't occur. It's possible to punch someone in the face and not cut up your hand, though it's rare, as is avoiding breaking a small bone in your hand.

108 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:20pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Yes, sure, if he was released without being charged.

Again, possible but seems unlikely to me. What does make it more likely, ironically, is if he really thought that he was innocent. If he knew that he provoked any physical altercation, that he was lying about fearing for his own life, or that he just basically just shot Martin, he'd be a complete idiot to not contact a lawyer.

109 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:21pm

re: #98 Shvaughn

It's amazing that ABC took this long to find an actor who looks just like Zimmerman so they could make the fake video.

//

Well, it would explain why there is no camera number or date/time stamp in the video.

// only half though

110 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:22pm

Wah. So fucking sad.

111 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:29:46pm

Hash tagging some of this to #NRA.

112 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:30:03pm

re: #105 Shvaughn

Wingnuts are likely to start attacking Richard Kurtz now because he's a black man.

Why do we give a fuck what he says?! He's not an expert! He could be lying to help the family!!

113 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:30:10pm

re: #104 Hoodies for Justice. T

Good point:

Yes!

114 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:30:10pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

Even with his father being a retired magistrate judge? Maybe he didn't call his father either?

Yes, maybe he didn't. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't. Without anything to suggest he did, it's pure speculation. The cops let him go without charging him. That might have been enough, for him, since he considers himself to be on the 'good guys' side anyway.

115 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:30:17pm

So I'm guessing an exhumation is going to be called for.

116 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:30:30pm

Even if GZ wasn't bloody, the cops should have had gloves on before they searched him. One of the cops goes all through his jacket with no gloves.

117 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:30:33pm

re: #97 Charles Johnson

To this day, I have tooth marks on my knuckles from my youthful indiscretions. You cannot bludgeon someone with your fists without leaving marks.

118 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:31:21pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Even if GZ wasn't bloody, the cops should have had gloves on before they searched him. One of the cops goes all through his jacket with no gloves.

And then wipes his hand on his pants vigorously.

119 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:31:51pm

re: #117 EdDantes

Well, you've got to be amazingly lucky. If you just hit the nose and nothing else you can. But normally you pop a bone. That's why boxers wear gloves, and why boxing was actually safer back in the bare-knuckled days.

It'd take a lot of coincidences for his appearance to match the story as it's been given out so far.

120 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:31:54pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Even if GZ wasn't bloody, the cops should have had gloves on before they searched him. One of the cops goes all through his jacket with no gloves.

Keystone

121 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:32:30pm

re: #115 Kragar

So I'm guessing an exhumation is going to be called for.

There was an autopsy. It needs to be released to see whether an exhumation is called for.

122 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:32:51pm

re: #107 Obdicut

If you die quickly after injuring yourself, normal swelling won't occur. It's possible to punch someone in the face and not cut up your hand, though it's rare, as is avoiding breaking a small bone in your hand.

There's also cuts and scabbing typical with fist fights.

123 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:34:06pm

Gee, I wonder why the prosecutors didn't charge anything...oh, they weren't given much evidence... which comes from a real investigation.

124 allegro  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:34:10pm

Has anyone even seen the guy in the past weeks? Is he even still in the country? His supposed buddy said he hadn't seen him.

125 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:34:14pm

re: #122 Gus

There's also cuts and scabbing typical with fist fights.

Yes. And a broken nose normally gives you a bad black eye, too, or it tend to bleed heavily. And scalp wounds really do bleed like a motherfucker so unless they've invented some new clear bandage and they stapled his scalp together in the field, it really doesn't seem like there's very major cuts.

126 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:34:43pm

re: #121 wrenchwench

There was an autopsy. It needs to be released to see whether an exhumation is called for.

If it was done in Sanford, I'd say it was suspect.

127 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:35:03pm

re: #124 allegro

Has anyone even seen the guy in the past weeks? Is he even still in the country? His supposed buddy said he hadn't seen him.

His supposed lawyer hasn't seen him.

128 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:35:40pm

re: #125 Obdicut

Yes. And a broken nose normally gives you a bad black eye, too, or it tend to bleed heavily. And scalp wounds really do bleed like a motherfucker so unless they've invented some new clear bandage and they stapled his scalp together in the field, it really doesn't seem like there's very major cuts.

I fell on some cast iron water line valve thing when I was a kid. Little tiny cut on the scalp. Damn thing bled like crazy.

129 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:36:21pm

re: #126 Kragar

If it was done in Sanford, I'd say it was suspect.

They're probably afraid the bones break toward his chest, and explaining a SYG defense with a back shot isn't so easy.

130 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:36:51pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Even if GZ wasn't bloody, the cops should have had gloves on before they searched him. One of the cops goes all through his jacket with no gloves.

Speaking from personal experience, they will do a search without gloves.

Though the Officer did ask if I had any sharp objects in my pockets that he should be concerned about.

For those of you who just have to know, it was a DWOP bust from a prior DUI conviction, reduced to a failure to purchase.

131 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:37:30pm

re: #127 darthstar

His supposed lawyer hasn't seen him.

But can assure us that he's still in the country.

132 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:37:43pm

re: #130 Bubblehead II

Speaking from personal experience, they will do a search without gloves.

Though the Officer did ask if I had any sharp objects in my pockets that he should be concerned about.

For those of you who just have to know, it was a DWOP bust from a prior DUI conviction, reduced to a failure to purchase.

You're cool.

133 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:37:56pm

re: #124 allegro

Has anyone even seen the guy in the past weeks? Is he even still in the country? His supposed buddy said he hadn't seen him.

And that Oliver asshole who claimed to be his friend and has been taking a press tour is simply trying to get his face on TV so he can find some way to profit from this thing.

134 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:38:21pm

GZ's lawyer said he had "lacerations" on his scalp. A laceration isn't just a scrape or a bruise, it's a serious cut.

135 allegro  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:38:36pm

re: #133 darthstar

And that Oliver asshole who claimed to be his friend and has been taking a press tour is simply trying to get his face on TV so he can find some way to profit from this thing.

That was the feeling I got as well.

136 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:38:58pm

re: #126 Kragar

If it was done in Sanford, I'd say it was suspect.

Ditto.

137 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:39:17pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

GZ's lawyer said he had "lacerations" on his scalp. A laceration isn't just a scrape or a bruise, it's a serious cut.

I'd heard "skull lacerations" from some of GZ's defenders, which threw me for a loop. If the damage was that deep, his ass would have been in the ER, not sitting in a police station.

138 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:39:43pm

re: #131 Targetpractice

But can assure us that he's still in the country.

Zimmerman is too ignorant to hide on his own. Someone has to be helping him.

139 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:40:46pm

What is blowing me away with this horrific "investigation" is the time frame between Trayvon's last call, the mysterious, non-witnessed shot, and the arrival of the narc cop. What, like 3 minutes? (or is that misinformation..par for this investigation)

140 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:41:43pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

I'd heard "skull lacerations" from some of GZ's defenders, which threw me for a loop. If the damage was that deep, his ass would have been in the ER, not sitting in a police station.

Would also indicate a possibility for a concussion. An alleged scalp laceration during an alleged "fight for your life" with a possible head injury and no MRI? No overnight observation?

141 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:42:36pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

GZ's lawyer said he had "lacerations" on his scalp. A laceration isn't just a scrape or a bruise, it's a serious cut.

GZ's lawyer also bailed from at least one media appearance. I wonder if there's a reason for that.

142 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:42:55pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

GZ's lawyer said he had "lacerations" on his scalp. A laceration isn't just a scrape or a bruise, it's a serious cut.

There are photographs... of all these injuries. If none exist any half decent lawyer will hammer on the lack thereof.

All injuries are supposed to be photographed and documented.

143 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:42:58pm

re: #119 Obdicut

In the bare knuckle, days a single hard punch would end the fight. Also, injuries to hands limited the amount of damage a punch could do. With the advent of hand wraps and gloves, boxers took much more blunt force trauma and remained on their feet to take more punishment.

144 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:43:19pm

Meanwhile:

145 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:44:29pm

re: #140 Gus

Would also indicate a possibility for a concussion. An alleged scalp laceration during an alleged "fight for your life" with a possible head injury and no MRI? No overnight observation?

That was my thought as well. If Zimmerman's whining to go to the hospital, after having his head slammed into the ground several times during a fight, would the cops really let him just sit there in the station? Would they really take the risk of him croaking from something like a subdural hematoma while in their custody?

146 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:44:55pm

re: #143 EdDantes

Yep. That's why a few guys die every year boxing these days, and in the old bare-knuckled days, I think there was like one death the entire time.

147 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:45:02pm

re: #144 Charles Johnson

Good, now you can ignore her and see how long it takes for her to reach out for your attention (I say two weeks).

148 elisabeth  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:45:38pm

re: #128 Gus

You were injured a lot as a child.

149 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:45:53pm

My theory (#71) might explain the 911 caller(s) reports of having seen (very early on) men (yes, plural) with flashlights. Maybe that was GZ and the narcotics officer looking for a spent shell casing?

150 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:46:07pm

re: #145 Targetpractice

That was my thought as well. If Zimmerman's whining to go to the hospital, after having his head slammed into the ground several times during a fight, would the cops really let him just sit there in the station? Would they really take the risk of him croaking from something like a subdural hematoma while in their custody?

Did the EMTs at the scene look at him? Make a report?

151 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:46:18pm

re: #148 elisabeth

Heh, when I was a kid I didn't even take special notice of cuts and bruises and stuff. It was par for the course.

152 elisabeth  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:46:55pm

re: #151 Obdicut

I was a prissy child. :)

153 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:47:00pm
154 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:47:07pm

re: #149 abolitionist

I think it's more probable it was just a couple of cops.

155 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:47:07pm

re: #145 Targetpractice

That was my thought as well. If Zimmerman's whining to go to the hospital, after having his head slammed into the ground several times during a fight, would the cops really let him just sit there in the station? Would they really take the risk of him croaking from something like a subdural hematoma while in their custody?

Exactly. Was going to mention a hematoma potential. And as cops they would typically want to CYA and say, "we're sending you to the hospital anyway." This video reflect a rather casual reception in the booking area (?). No blood on the shirt from a broken nose. No gloves on the cops. No gauze. No bandages. Clothing is clean and tidy. Not even a tiny bandaid is visible.

156 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:47:56pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

Did the EMTs at the scene look at him? Make a report?

THAT is the next journalistic find. What the Sanford peeps won't release.

The EMT report.

157 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:48:06pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

Okay...maybe two hours.

158 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:48:13pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

Did the EMTs at the scene look at him? Make a report?

He was supposedly patched up in the back of a squad car by EMTs, but no word in the report on whether they voiced concern or not to the cops. But you'd think that repeated blows to the head would warrant enough concern to cart him off for an MRI.

159 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:48:51pm

re: #154 Obdicut

I think it's more probable it was just a couple of cops.

Multiple reports indicate the police arrived about 5 minutes after the shooting.

160 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:49:03pm

re: #149 abolitionist

My theory (#71) might explain the 911 caller(s) reports of having seen (very early on) men (yes, plural) with flashlights. Maybe that was GZ and the narcotics officer looking for a spent shell casing?

Your theory is a stupid, baseless conspiracy theory. Probably best to drop it.

161 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:49:12pm

You guys, the police took this dude's word that he was neighborhood watch and stopped a hoodlum. Case closed.

Except, other people cared.

162 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:49:56pm

re: #156 Hoodies for Justice. T

THAT is the next journalistic find. What the Sanford peeps won't release.

The EMT report.

That's just one amongst many items they won't release. I've been told that they're barred from doing so due to the potential for charges and a trial in the near future, but I note that hasn't stopped "leaks" from the department.

163 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:50:32pm

re: #57 Obdicut

Also-- shooting someone at close range, if you're underneath them, would result in blood on you, I'd think.

Also, a different type of wound. Up-close shooting, you'd expect to see powder burns on the clothing, possibly on the skin. Still a different type of wound if it's a contact shot. And a bullet trajectory very different from one you'd find if you shot someone standing across from you (fer' instance).

[Link: www.relentlessdefense.com...]

That link is safe, but some links on it go to graphic depictions of gunshot wounds.

164 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:50:38pm

re: #161 Hoodies for Justice. T

You guys, the police took this dude's word that he was neighborhood watch and stopped a hoodlum. Case closed.

Except, other people cared.

At least one of the cops-- the homicide detective-- wanted to charge him. So it's not all the cops.

165 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:51:27pm

Heh! The fever swamp is ignoring this video as best they can.

166 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:51:55pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

That's just one amongst many items they won't release. I've been told that they're barred from doing so due to the potential for charges and a trial in the near future, but I note that hasn't stopped "leaks" from the department.

From the moral ones. Who are being smeared as a whole, buy the few fuckups.

So sad, but this is going to be interesting.

167 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:53:10pm

Wow, so now I know that one of the requirements for working at Breitbart.com is being a total asshole.

168 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:53:54pm

re: #167 Charles Johnson

Wow, so now I know that one of the requirements for working at Breitbart.com is being a total asshole.

Is she coming on to you?

169 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:54:11pm

re: #166 Hoodies for Justice. T

From the moral ones. Who are being smeared as a whole, buy the few fuckups.

So sad, but this is going to be interesting.

I don't think the leak of "more details" from the cop's report yesterday, meant to ratchet up the horror factor of GZ's "fight for his life" came from the moral ones. This is a department playing CYA, "leaking" info that helps bolster its case in favor of letting GZ walk.

170 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:54:14pm

re: #165 Bubblehead II

Heh! The fever swamp is ignoring this video as best they can.

Given the technology available, there's no reason why cameras such as the one in the police station not all be HD quality, so non blurry close ups can be used when there are discrepancies between the story and the data.

171 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:54:36pm

re: #167 Charles Johnson

Wow, so now I know that one of the requirements for working at Breitbart.com is being a total asshole.

Now She is getting the idea. Attack the Pony Tail. When does the Child Molester charge come in?

172 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:54:41pm

re: #146 Obdicut

Right you are. Even as a student of boxing I cannot think of one bare knuckle boxer who died in the ring but I can rattle off a series of "modern" day boxers who have died.

173 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:55:26pm

re: #160 Shvaughn

Your theory is a stupid, baseless conspiracy theory. Probably best to drop it.

Have you listened to the 911 audio tapes? More than one agent was assuring callers within 2 minutes of the shooting that they had one "officer there" already. At least two of the earliest calls included the screams for help, and the gunshot. My speculations are based largely on what I heard on those tapes, and the timeline of events that they are evidence for.

174 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:55:33pm

re: #151 Obdicut

Heh, when I was a kid I didn't even take special notice of cuts and bruises and stuff. It was par for the course.

In sports you see a lot of injuries..bloody noses, cracked heads, broken bones. A broken nose causes lots of bleeding and swelling to the face, Head injuries bleed a lot but not a bandage is to be seen on George's head.
It must be a freaking miracle.

175 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:55:48pm
176 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:56:11pm

re: #167 Charles Johnson

Wow, so now I know that one of the requirements for working at Breitbart.com is being a total asshole.

What else would one expect from a person or group whose founder and mentor was a purely poisonous personality, admittedly devoted solely to destruction and completely uninterested in making any positive contribution to anything except the ever-broadening puddle of liquishits that is our political discourse?

177 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:56:34pm

OT: The stupid Tea Party idiots in congress are trying to close down the Export/Import Bank.

178 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:56:42pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

What a diversionary dope.

179 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:57:49pm

Charge Zimmerman that is all.

180 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:59:00pm

re: #178 jaunte

What a diversionary dope.

Serious rabbit boiler.

181 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 5:59:13pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

Okay...she's reached out to you three times in eight minutes...Obsession, thy name is Mandy

You'd better hope she doesn't start keying your car.

182 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:00:38pm

re: #180 Kronocide

'Planted Comments' liar angry about being reminded of her lie.

183 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:00:53pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

I don't think the leak of "more details" from the cop's report yesterday, meant to ratchet up the horror factor of GZ's "fight for his life" came from the moral ones. This is a department playing CYA, "leaking" info that helps bolster its case in favor of letting GZ walk.

I'm a Pollyanna I guess. Fuck.

(thanks for not pointing out my buy v. by typo, I tried to fix, but time expired. Annd I just brought attention to it. :))

184 PeterWolf  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:01:24pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

I admit to reading one of her articles once. I want the time I wasted reading it back.

185 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:01:52pm

This is why I'm glad I don't twitter...I have an account, but jesus there are some freaks out there. I don't know how Charles puts up with it.

186 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:02:40pm

re: #185 darthstar

This is why I'm glad I don't twitter...I have an account, but jesus there are some freaks out there. I don't know how Charles puts up with it.

Its why I steer clear of social media.

187 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:03:22pm

re: #186 Kragar

Its why I steer clear of social media.

I facebook because, if someone really is my friend, then they will want to know when I farted.

188 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:03:39pm

re: #181 darthstar

Okay...she's reached out to you three times in eight minutes...Obsession, thy name is Mandy

You'd better hope she doesn't start keying your car.

She looks like 23. Par for the course.

189 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:03:49pm

re: #185 darthstar

It's pretty easy to block people when they get to be a pain.

190 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:03:52pm

re: #183 Hoodies for Justice. T

I'm a Pollyanna I guess. Fuck.

(thanks for not pointing out my buy v. by typo, I tried to fix, but time expired. Annd I just brought attention to it. :))

I like to believe that there are good guys in the department, who feel for the family and want to get them some justice. But the ones in charge seem to be worried about one thing and one thing only: Their own asses.

191 blueraven  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:04:39pm

re: #139 Hoodies for Justice. T

What is blowing me away with this horrific "investigation" is the time frame between Trayvon's last call, the mysterious, non-witnessed shot, and the arrival of the narc cop. What, like 3 minutes? (or is that misinformation..par for this investigation)

I think it was less than that. Some of the 911 calls that night reporting the shot immediately and then saying they saw flashlights at the scene, indicating the cops were there. This was almost immediately after the gunshot.
Remember the cops were already on the way due to Zimmerman's call.

192 TedStriker  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:05:09pm

re: #66 Hoodies for Justice. T

Especially if your Dad is a freaking judge.

Give me a break.

Maybe he did talk to a lawyer about this before he hired one.

His father.

If he did tell him details about this, would it be covered by attorney-client privilege?

193 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:05:55pm

re: #192 talon_262

Maybe he did talk to a lawyer about this before he hired one.

His father.

If he did tell him details about this, would it be covered by attorney-client privilege?

I don't think so but I am not a lawyer.

194 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:06:07pm

re: #187 darthstar

I facebook because, if someone really is my friend, then they will want to know when I farted.

All the people I want to stay in touch with already know how to reach me.

195 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:06:21pm

re: #189 jaunte

It's pretty easy to block people when they get to be a pain.

Yeah. I don't have any problems on Twitter. Except for that one night I Tweeted that Saint Shapiro and Saint Pollak of Breitbart were racists -- WRT Derrick Bell.

196 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:07:06pm

re: #191 blueraven

I think it was less than that. Some of the 911 calls that night reporting the shot immediately and then saying they saw flashlights at the scene, indicating the cops were there. This was almost immediately after the gunshot.
Remember the cops were already on the way due to Zimmerman's call.

Maybe there was some additional witnesses...

197 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:07:19pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

I like to believe that there are good guys in the department, who feel for the family and want to get them some justice. But the ones in charge seem to be worried about one thing and one thing only: Their own asses.

I think it's the lower echelons releasing/being an leak to ABC. The ones in charge are thinking about their exorbitant pensions, and how the hell to keep them. Not justice.

198 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:07:50pm

That doesn't look like a broken nose either.

Can you get a nose "sprain"?

199 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:09:16pm

re: #189 jaunte

It's pretty easy to block people when they get to be a pain.

I found that out when Jake Tapper (reporter asshole) blocked me the same day I posted a question about his using a blackberry during an Obama presser.

One of the 15 or so tweets I've made since 2009.

@jaketapper Still using your blackberry during press briefings? You're a little overly sensitive for a hard-hitting reporter.

200 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:09:32pm

Dark hypothetical...

What if it wasn't Zimmerman who fired the shot?

201 Mattand  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:09:40pm

re: #198 Gus

That doesn't look like a broken nose either.

Can you get a nose "sprain"?

Yeah, from lying about the murder of a 17 year old you just committed.

202 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:10:44pm

re: #200 McSpiff

Dark hypothetical...

What if it wasn't Zimmerman who fired the shot?

Did the shot come from the grassy knoll across the street?

Seriously, I see it more plausible that Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the back as he was running away than I do that there's a shadowy party that the cops and Zimmerman are covering for.

203 Gus  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:10:47pm

BIAB

204 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:11:05pm
205 EdDantes  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:11:50pm

re: #200 McSpiff

Dark hypothetical...

What if it wasn't Zimmerman who fired the shot?

That would mean the butler did it.

206 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:12:05pm
207 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:12:35pm

re: #206 jaunte

Sanford PD's about to have a really bad day tomorrow.

208 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:12:50pm

This really is looking more and more like a miscarriage of justice. Just tragic.

209 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:13:17pm
210 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:13:22pm

re: #208 HappyWarrior

This really is looking more and more like a miscarriage of justice. Just tragic.

Wait until the case is closed...then the miscarriage will be complete.

211 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:13:24pm

re: #202 Targetpractice

Did the shot come from the grassy knoll across the street?

Seriously, I see it more plausible that Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the back as he was running away than I do that there's a shadowy party that the cops and Zimmerman are covering for.

Was more implying the cops were the shadowy party. Still can't figure out why they're going to ruin themselves defending Zimmerman. Latent racism only goes so far.

But yes, I do enjoy a good conspiracy.

212 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:13:55pm

re: #200 McSpiff

Dark hypothetical...

What if it wasn't Zimmerman who fired the shot?

You are not alone. And so it goes, when a fucked up investigation is dissected by the internet.

The police fucked up big time. Full stop. And only the internet, press and concerned citizens are asking the questions. You reap what you sow and all that.

213 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:15:03pm

re: #212 Hoodies for Justice. T

You are not alone. And so it goes, when a fucked up investigation is dissected by the internet.

The police fucked up big time. Full stop. And only the internet, press and concerned citizens are asking the questions. You reap what you sow and all that.

This is how they'll protect SYG...this will blow up into such a clusterfuck that there won't be any way to give Zimmerman a fair trial.

214 TedStriker  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:15:17pm

re: #115 Kragar

So I'm guessing an exhumation is going to be called for.

As much pain as it would be for the family and friends, an exhumation and another autopsy by a third party looks absolutely necessary if the ME keeps stonewalling. If the FBI and DoJ are getting involved, you know damned well they'll want to perform their own, especially if the local ME is less than forthcoming.

215 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:16:14pm

I'm still waiting for all the facts to be in before I make any judgments.

//

216 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:16:18pm

I feel so bad for the Martin family. First for what happened obviously and now this.

217 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:16:30pm

re: #214 talon_262

As much pain as it would be for the family and friends, an exhumation and another autopsy by a third party looks absolutely necessary if the ME keeps stonewalling. If the FBI and DoJ are getting involved, you know damned well they'll want to perform their own, especially if the local ME is less than forthcoming.

What do you want to bet the bullet's gone, so they can't even tie the shooting to Zimmerman's gun?

218 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:16:38pm

re: #211 McSpiff

Was more implying the cops were the shadowy party. Still can't figure out why they're going to ruin themselves defending Zimmerman. Latent racism only goes so far.

But yes, I do enjoy a good conspiracy.

Personally think that if it was a cop who'd done the shooting, that the only way GZ would go along with it is if he seriously feared for his life.

219 darthstar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:19:07pm

Okay...internet break time.

220 TedStriker  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:19:21pm

re: #155 Gus

Exactly. Was going to mention a hematoma potential. And as cops they would typically want to CYA and say, "we're sending you to the hospital anyway." This video reflect a rather casual reception in the booking area (?). No blood on the shirt from a broken nose. No gloves on the cops. No gauze. No bandages. Clothing is clean and tidy. Not even a tiny bandaid is visible.

Something is rotten in the state of Florida...

/apologies to The Bard

221 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:19:47pm

Meanwhile, the Breitbarts are all over the major stories of the day:
Image: Screen_shot_2012-03-28_at_8.18.31_PM.png

222 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:20:19pm

So OT, but a reprise for a sec.

My Dad sent me a ham from Edwards, of Surry Virginia

Oh to the hell, supposed to save for Easter. Good luck, starting on it tonight.

And as a bonus, he included a lb. of bacon. Have hit 1/2 of that the day it arrived. So unbelievable. Looked different, cooked differently, was the best bacon I've ever had.

Biscuits cooking now.

223 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:20:51pm

re: #209 jaunte

Brian Barnhart ‏ @brianbmb

@thinkprogress all wounds stop bleeding eventually. Had he still been bleeding he would have gone to hospital. Proves nothing either way.

DERP!

224 ssn697  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:21:12pm

My apologies if this has already been covered, but shouldn't there be a hospital record if he had a broken nose and lacerations?

Also, wouldn't his mugshot indicate injury, if his nose was broken? No swelling at all in his mugshot.

225 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:21:35pm

re: #223 Kragar

DERP!

Apparently this guy is going with the "he's Wolverine" theory.

226 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:21:50pm

re: #223 Kragar

Scalp wounds, facial wounds, bleed a LOT.

227 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:22:10pm

re: #221 jaunte

Meanwhile, the Breitbarts are all over the major stories of the day:
Image: Screen_shot_2012-03-28_at_8.18.31_PM.png

When does HIS toxicology report come out?

228 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:22:27pm

re: #218 Targetpractice

Personally think that if it was a cop who'd done the shooting, that the only way GZ would go along with it is if he seriously feared for his life.

Only if he thinks the cop did something wrong. Otherwise he's just defending the 'real' hero. Maybe originally they both agreed that SYG was the easiest way to avoid the paper work for the cop. Since Martin was 'clearly' in the wrong anyways. As the media grabs the story, they need to embellish it to make Martin more and more of a threat, leading to the "slamming the head off the pavement".

Did they ever reveal what Zimmerman had for a gun?


Above post is purely for entertainment value. I just enjoy pieicing these things togeather in my mind.

229 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:22:34pm

re: #224 ssn697

My apologies if this has already been covered, but shouldn't there be a hospital record if he had a broken nose and lacerations?

Also, wouldn't his mugshot indicate injury, if his nose was broken? No swelling at all in his mugshot.

Good point. Police usually take notes of injuries so they don't get blamed.

230 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:22:47pm

re: #227 Hoodies for Justice. T

I think I recall an estimate of up to six weeks a couple of weeks ago.

231 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:23:27pm

re: #225 Shvaughn

Apparently this guy is going with the "he's Wolverine" theory.

Not only did he get his wounds treated, but they gave him a change of clothes.

232 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:23:51pm

re: #224 ssn697

My apologies if this has already been covered, but shouldn't there be a hospital record if he had a broken nose and lacerations?

Also, wouldn't his mugshot indicate injury, if his nose was broken? No swelling at all in his mugshot.

I don't think the mug shot released was from this episode. It was from (I think) the cop assault before.

And yes, there are way more reports to be released. Esp. the EMT's.

233 efuseakay  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:24:42pm

re: #124 allegro

Has anyone even seen the guy in the past weeks? Is he even still in the country? His supposed buddy said he hadn't seen him.

He's the new Sanford PD Chief.

234 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:25:30pm
235 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:26:04pm

re: #167 Charles Johnson

Wow, so now I know that one of the requirements for working at Breitbart.com is being a total asshole.

/

236 sauceruney  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:26:27pm

FOX is already saying that video was taken after Zimmerman spent time in an ambulance getting cleaned up. Even though THAT's not in the police report.

237 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:27:00pm

re: #236 chris joseph

No bandages, either.

238 nutz4Tuna  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:27:22pm

In other sad news, Earl Scruggs is no longer with us...RIP.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

239 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:28:03pm

Night Lizards.

/Picked a bad decade to quit smoking pot

240 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:28:10pm

Too cool. [Link: www.ciclops.org...]

241 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:28:46pm

re: #240 jaunte

[Link: www.ciclops.org...]

...
Damn security leaks!
...

242 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:28:50pm

re: #236 chris joseph

FOX is already saying that video was taken after Zimmerman spent time in an ambulance getting cleaned up. Even though THAT's not in the police report.

Fox has already forgotten that he's a Latino Democrat, I guess, if they're back to defending him. That didn't last long.

243 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:29:58pm

re: #236 chris joseph

FOX is already saying that video was taken after Zimmerman spent time in an ambulance getting cleaned up. Even though THAT's not in the police report.

They cleaned his clothes too? That is a full service ambulance!

244 simoom  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:30:03pm

I'm not sure if this was already posted up-thread, but here's the ABC News story that goes along with this video:

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Trayvon Martin Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman

A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.

The surveillance video, which was obtained exclusively by ABC News, shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser. As he exits the car, his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is frisked and then led down a series of hallways, still cuffed.

Zimmerman, 28, is wearing a red and black fleece and his face and head are cleanly shaven. He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot that until a two days ago was the single image the media had of Zimmerman.

245 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:31:36pm

re: #244 simoom

I'm not sure if this was already posted up-thread, but here's the ABC News story that goes along with this video:

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the self-appointed neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.

I wish they'd stop calling him a neighborhood watch captain.

246 efuseakay  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:31:37pm

re: #158 Targetpractice

He was supposedly patched up in the back of a squad car by EMTs, but no word in the report on whether they voiced concern or not to the cops. But you'd think that repeated blows to the head would warrant enough concern to cart him off for an MRI.

The thing is. I see no evidence of him being patched up. He'd have at the very least, a wrap around his head.

247 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:31:42pm

re: #243 Kragar

They cleaned his clothes too? That is a full service ambulance!

They also must've had dermal regenerators.

248 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:32:19pm

re: #197 Hoodies for Justice. T

I think it's the lower echelons releasing/being an leak to ABC. The ones in charge are thinking about their exorbitant pensions, and how the hell to keep them. Not justice.

While I don't sympathise in any way with the cops here, I'm always leery of complaining about exorbitant pensions/pay of anyone like cops, teachers, or the like. There are few members of society more underpaid.

249 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:33:14pm

There is a timestamp or something at the very bottom of the video. Barely visible if you freeze frame at 0:34. This video was filmed from a monitor and not released from the original video file.

250 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:33:34pm

re: #245 Shvaughn

"Self-appointed neighborhood watch captain" just sounds so accusatory.
And factual.

251 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:35:11pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

There is a timestamp or something at the very bottom of the video. Barely visible if you freeze frame at 0:34. This video was filmed from a monitor and not released from the original video file.

Makes sense since it's an unofficial leak. Someone recorded it with their cell phone.

252 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:35:33pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

There is a timestamp or something at the very bottom of the video. Barely visible if you freeze frame at 0:34. This video was filmed from a monitor and not released from the original video file.

Could have been leery of sticking a usb stick in a PD computer. Keeping an airgap and filming it off the screen would be the safest way.

253 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:36:03pm

re: #251 Shvaughn

Makes sense since it's an unofficial leak. Someone recorded it with their cell phone.

Perhaps somebody within the department recorded it while "reviewing" the video.

254 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:36:54pm

re: #253 Targetpractice

Perhaps somebody within the department recorded it while "reviewing" the video.

I'd be interested in seeing if this file still exists on the PD's system.

255 Shvaughn  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:37:00pm

re: #253 Targetpractice

Perhaps somebody within the department recorded it while "reviewing" the video.

Whoever leaked it, they're doing a good thing.

256 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:37:14pm

re: #236 chris joseph

FOX is already saying that video was taken after Zimmerman spent time in an ambulance getting cleaned up. Even though THAT's not in the police report.

Not only not in the report, but not a drop of blood on his clothing, no bandages of any kind, and the cops are handling him without gloves. Faux isn't even trying.

257 Political Atheist  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:37:23pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson
re: #207 Targetpractice

Sorry I'm late to this thread. Wow. This is huge.
It's looking more and more like a deliberate killing by GZ. If he has no fight injuries he had no right to shoot. He left not only (IMHO) the protection of SYG, he left behind all the tenets of self defense.

Killers can say self defense. But we are left with zero evidence Trayvor did anything wrong. And the list of things GZ did wrong is growing and growing.
That having been said-
"Anywhere you have a right to be" is impossibly vague. Overlay a crappy police department and you will get tragedy. That advocacy needs to find a different case to use as a foundation. If reports of all these "justifiable homicides" are correct that will not be hard to find. I should have those soon, and if it's still relevant I'll offer a couple good cases to help that effort.

258 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:37:47pm

re: #256 Targetpractice

Not only not in the report, but not a drop of blood on his clothing, no bandages of any kind, and the cops are handling him without gloves. Faux isn't even trying.

Square peg, round hole.

259 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:46:46pm

When does the criminal investigation into the SPD open...

260 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:47:20pm

In the video you get a good, 360 degree view of Zimmerman's head. No bruises, scrapes, cuts, bandages, dressings, nothing to indicate a fight where he sustained any kind of injury/injuries to his head. You also see no staining of his jacket and shirt where a wet spot would be from blood being blotted off of any open wound. Zimmerman's clothes are also tidy, showing no signs of any physical struggle (untucked shirt, ripped fabric, etc). This video contradicts Zimmerman's version of events and the police report.

Martin did not instigate any kind of confrontation. Zimmerman did, then escalated it to murder.

Zimmerman should be behind bars. The Sanford PD chief should be fired without benefits. Everyone involved should be investigated by a 3rd party (like the Feds) to determine the extend of the screw-up/cover-up and those involved punished accordingly.

Treyvon Martin was murdered. His family should sue George Zimmerman for wrongful death, and sue the Sanford PD for this miscarriage of justice.

261 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:50:01pm

re: #248 Renaissance_Man

While I don't sympathise in any way with the cops here, I'm always leery of complaining about exorbitant pensions/pay of anyone like cops, teachers, or the like. There are few members of society more underpaid.

I've read stories about the cops/prison guards and their overtime/inflated salaries at time of retirement. I stand by my premise.

Teachers? Ya, right. They do not get paid overtime.

262 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:57:26pm

Reaching, reaching...

263 Four More Tears  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:58:13pm

The sidewalks in Sanford must be paved with rubber...

264 Kragar  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:58:24pm

re: #262 jaunte

Reaching, reaching...

I distinctly said "Thats a steaming pirate ship."

265 DodgerFan1988  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:58:30pm

Sean Hannity and Fox News are already playing devil's advocate by claiming George Zimmerman was treated by ambulance, so that's why there's no blood and bruises on him in the video. Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are sounding more and more like Zimmermans attorneys than "journalists" everyday.

266 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 6:59:13pm

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

Sean Hannity and Fox News are already playing devil's advocate by claiming George Zimmerman was treated by ambulance, so that's why there's no blood and bruises on him in the video. Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are sounding more and more like Zimmermans attorneys than "journalists" everyday.

They got their marching orders.

267 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:00:04pm

re: #262 jaunte

Reaching, reaching...

ok, my thought that Nancy Graaace would side with Trayvon was crap.

268 jaunte  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:00:10pm

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

It's nice to have them recorded for counterpoint when the elusive ambulance driver finally gets interviewed.

269 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:00:28pm

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

Sean Hannity and Fox News are already playing devil's advocate by claiming George Zimmerman was treated by ambulance, so that's why there's no blood and bruises on him in the video. Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are sounding more and more like Zimmermans attorneys than "journalists" everyday.

And the ambulance also included an on-site dry-cleaning service, as well as a changing room so he could clean himself up before they slapped the cuffs on him.

///

270 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:00:45pm

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

It's possible that they stopped a nosebleed, his nose hadn't really swollen yet, but there's no way that I know of to treat scalp wounds that makes them just stop bleeding without a bandage. The biggest styptic pencil on earth, maybe. Superglue.

271 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:04:11pm

re: #265 DodgerFan1988

OT: Never seen you before here...I'm a Giants fan.
Is it not awesome that the Dodgers who hired the first black player in baseball history are now the first to have a black owner? Completely awesome news today..

272 blueraven  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:10:20pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

There is a timestamp or something at the very bottom of the video. Barely visible if you freeze frame at 0:34. This video was filmed from a monitor and not released from the original video file.

The reporter from ABC said all he has to do was ask for the video and the SPD turned it over.

273 Decider  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:33:01pm

Fox News is working overtime to figure out how to spin this.

"That evil Black man made this nice young man use a expensive bullet and be inconvenienced by going to jail. Treyvon Martin's family should apologize to him." - Sean Hannity

274 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:48:26pm

re: #45 Learned Mother of Zion

I watched this video several times, and I don't understand why the officers allowed him to walk by himself on the far side of the bikes, even though he was cuffed.

I noticed that. I could not believe it. I watched again to be sure I actually saw that.

275 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 28, 2012 7:54:54pm

re: #163 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

Also, a different type of wound. Up-close shooting, you'd expect to see powder burns on the clothing, possibly on the skin. Still a different type of wound if it's a contact shot. And a bullet trajectory very different from one you'd find if you shot someone standing across from you (fer' instance).

[Link: www.relentlessdefense.com...]

That link is safe, but some links on it go to graphic depictions of gunshot wounds.

As close as they supposedly were, there would definitely be powder burns and possibly a star shaped skin blow-out around the entry wound from the propellant gasses entering under the skin if the muzzle was touching or nearly touching the body.

276 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 6:45:21am

No visible injuries at all. Well, why am I not surprised AT ALL? Thank goodness for the ABC reporter who got his hands on this.

When will Zimmerman be charged?

LGF -- doing a great job in following this story.

277 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 8:13:00am

This video was from a full four hours after the shooting, Zimmerman had already been attended to by EMTs at the scene. Any blood on his face or head would have been cleaned up during treatment. His Red Jacket would also prevent any blood stains from being visible. Basically this video proves nothing for either side of the case given the time elapsed and the poor quality.

However: The "Receiving" officer who makes a token display of searching Zimmerman (SOP) does at 0:50-54 seem to be looking at the back of his head in response to a comment made by the escort officer, and then at 1:04-1:07 you see the back of his head as clearly as possible given the quality of the video and there does appear to be a "discoloration," "spot," whatever you want to call it in the center top of the rear of his head.

Given the other witness that has come forward claiming to see Zimmerman on his back with Trayvon on top. Trying to claim that no physical altercation took place and that Zimmerman simply executed Trayvon seems like a non-starter/losing strategy. The point that needs to be made is that Zimmerman forced and quite probably initiated the altercation with a kid who was simply trying to walk home from the store.

278 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 8:32:15am

re: #277 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

The point I was making wasn't that he should be covered in blood, but that there should be some sort of bandage if he had any sort of serious scalp wound. The extent of his injuries certainly are important as well, given that his story is that he was being badly beaten.

279 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 9:45:01am

re: #278 Obdicut

The point I was making wasn't that he should be covered in blood, but that there should be some sort of bandage if he had any sort of serious scalp wound. The extent of his injuries certainly are important as well, given that his story is that he was being badly beaten.

Who said it was a "Serious" scalp wound? They said he had a "cut on the back of his head," not a "serious scalp wound." After four hours any wound better have coagulated and stopped bleeding anyway either that or you need to seek further and immediate medical treatment.

Given that he was treated by EMTs at the scene and this video is from four hours after the shooting once again I have to state that the lack of visible blood (or bandages) is absolutely meaningless as evidence. Placing a bandage on the back of his head or not would be a call made by the EMT at the scene given the extant of the wound, it's depth, whether or not it was still bleeding heavily or seemed to be coagulating properly, and other medically related factors. If it was just a fairly small pressure split in the skin as is typical of many head impact wounds (either from hitting the ground, or from a blow) and when cleaned/treated was no longer bleeding heavily then a bandage would have been superfluous. Not to mention how notoriously hard it is to bandage the rear of someones head without shaving the area first.

280 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 10:02:59am

re: #279 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Everything that you're saying is true, but that's the point-- if his injuries were not severe enough to need serious medical treatment, then they indicate the amount of damage he was sustaining and thus speak to the 'reasonableness' of him considering that he was in danger of dying or suffering a crippling injury.

281 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 10:36:16am

re: #280 Obdicut

Everything that you're saying is true, but that's the point-- if his injuries were not severe enough to need serious medical treatment, then they indicate the amount of damage he was sustaining and thus speak to the 'reasonableness' of him considering that he was in danger of dying or suffering a crippling injury.

I'll agree with that, it does seem as though his injuries from the supposed altercation were minor and that his response (shooting) seems a disproportionate response.

But...if you were on your back in the grass with a painful wound to the back of your head (that you have no idea of how bad it is or isn't), and a man was on top of you, fighting with you, and you were calling for help but no one was coming to your aid, and you had a gun, might you not use that gun to prevent yourself from being injured further? Keep in mind that this final confrontation, however it ultimately happened, all occurred in about a minute or less.

I do believe that Zimmerman is 100% at fault for this tragedy, he forced the confrontation by following and harassing Trayvon and given his mindset I believe that he most likely started the physical altercation with Trayvon, (although unfortunately there is no evidence to support this in court). But...there is evidence that a Physical altercation between the two did happen given the witness statements. Zimmerman can and has claimed that he was in fear for his life or of serious physical injury, at which point the shooting becomes sanctioned as self-defense.

Good luck on getting a jury in Sanford to say differently. This is going to be another of those cases that will never be resolved to anyones satisfaction...

282 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 10:54:21am

re: #281 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

But...if you were on your back in the grass with a painful wound to the back of your head (that you have no idea of how bad it is or isn't), and a man was on top of you, fighting with you, and you were calling for help but no one was coming to your aid, and you had a gun, might you not use that gun to prevent yourself from being injured further? Keep in mind that this final confrontation, however it ultimately happened, all occurred in about a minute or less.

No, really, I wouldn't think it was right if I did. As you said, this all happened within a minute. I understand at some point he was asserting that Martin was struggling for the gun. If that's the case-- if he's saying it was self-defense on those grounds-- that'll be a different case (though not one I think anyone wants)-- but as long as he's asserting the injuries he was sustaining were part of his decision, then they're relevant.


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Jack Klatt - Highway Lines (Live at Radio Heartland)Jack Klatt performs 'Highway Lines' from his 2019 album, 'It Ain't The Same,' live in the studio of Radio Heartland at The Current.
Thanos
5 days, 13 hours ago
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Brittany Howard Performing ‘13th Century Metal’ Live on KCRW Brittany Howard's solo debut album Jaime puts her powerhouse vocals on full display. It also takes us front and center to her very personal journey of loss, love and self-discovery. We're thrilled to welcome her back to KCRW to ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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(15) Rodrigo Y Gabriela - Electric Soul (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents Rodrigo y Gabriela performing "Electric Soul" live in the KEXP gathering space. Recorded July 14, 2019. Host: Stevie ZoomAudio Engineers: Kessiah Gordon & Kevin SuggsAudio Mixer: David MarchantCameras: Jim Beckmann, Alaia D'Alessandro, Luke Knecht & Justin WIlmoreEditor: ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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Fresh Air (Remastered) Quicksilver Messenger Service Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group Fresh Air (Remastered) · Quicksilver Messenger Service Classic Masters ℗ 2001 Capitol Records, LLC Released on: 2007-01-01 Producer: Quicksilver Messenger ServiceStudio Personnel, Mastering Engineer: Robert VosgienComposer: Jesse Oris Farrow Auto-generated by YouTube. ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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Jon Anderson - Song of SevenFrom the 1980 album "Song of Seven".
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191006 Today we have to take a few steps back in explanation. The pond is going to have three levels. Sort of an upside down ziggurat. The lowest level, in the center we call ‘the channel’. After the liner is ...
DangerMan
1 week, 4 days ago
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Jon Anderson - Change We MustFrom the 1994 album "Change We Must".
Thanos
1 week, 6 days ago
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North Mississippi Allstars - ‘Drunk Outdoors’ [Audio Only]From the album 'Up and Rolling,' available October 4, 2019: geni.us
Thanos
1 week, 6 days ago
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Dr. Demento & John Cafiero - What’s in My Bag? Dr. Demento and John Cafiero go shopping at Amoeba Music in Los Angeles. Check out their picks:Cal Stewart - Uncle Josh's Letter from Home (78) Spike Jones - Ugga Ugga Boo Ugga Boo Boo Ugga (78) Johnny Otis Orchestra ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 5 days ago
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