Breitbart.com: If You’re Hispanic, You’re Definitely Not ‘White’

Another look at the deranged racist assumptions of the right
Wingnuts • Views: 33,539

The heirs of Andrew at breitbart.com are working overtime to advance their bizarre racial talking points about the Trayvon Martin case; here’s another post from mini-Breit William Bigelow explaining that people of Hispanic or Latino heritage will never be considered “white” by the right wing: Boston Globe Columnist Perpetuates ‘White’ Zimmerman Lie.

In Tuesday’s Boston Globe an opinion piece appeared by one Mac D’Alessandro. In it he referred to George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who shot Trayvon Martin, as a white neighborhood watch captain. Later, the same piece was posted again, but white had been changed to Hispanic.

It has been nearly a week since the shooting, and the news media has finally acknowledged Zimmerman’s Latino background — yet D’Alessandro still referred to him as white before someone got to him and suggested the change. There couldn’t be another agenda at work here, could there?

Sane people understand that “Hispanic” or “Latino” is an ethnic classification, not a “racial” classification, and that Hispanics can belong to any race. According to the US Census:

Since the 1970 Census, the questionnaire has asked U.S. residents whether they are of Hispanic origin, and if so, which broad Hispanic group they identify with. Hispanic origin is considered separately from race in the Census—and Hispanics may identify with any race.

But it’s vitally important to breitbart.com writers to keep hammering away at the false talking point that Latinos cannot be considered “white.” It reveals something about their own racist assumptions and prejudices, but they don’t even seem to realize it.

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91 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:55:25am

I seem to remember thrashing this point to death at the very outset...

2 Kragar  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:56:00am

Ah, the ole "No true shit kicking cracker" gambit..

3 Kragar  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:56:46am

re: #1 Expand Your Ground

I seem to remember thrashing this point to death at the very outset...

Breitbart's flogging service - "Dead horses are our specialty!"

4 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:58:22am

B.I.G.O.T.S.

So when do they start collaborating with American Renaissance? They already have a rather apparent undercurrent of white nationalism running through their veins. Their comment section certainly reflects that.

5 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:58:56am

So now we start arguing the degree of "whiteness" again?

6 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:59:14am

From the comments, I saw this one coming:

childof68

Well it has been proven that Mr. Zimmerman is half white. It is my opinion however that Mr. Zimmerman is as far away from his white half as our President is.

7 Kragar  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:59:31am

re: #5 Targetpractice

So now we start arguing the degree of "whiteness" again?

GET BECK'S CHALKBOARD!

8 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 11:59:48am
9 cat-tikvah  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:00:13pm

I have Mexican-American in-laws who immigrated decades ago. I don't think they have ever once in their lives thought of themselves as "people of color". They are primarily Spanish descent, hence "white", and "color" from their perspective, would be reserved for Mexican indians or those with black African roots.

(Aside from the moronity of insisting that Hispanic is a race.)

10 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:00:13pm
lilium479

I guess we have a white Negro in the WH.

11 Interesting Times  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:00:23pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

So now we start arguing the degree of "whiteness" again?

Image: arizona-crayons.jpg

12 Kragar  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:00:59pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

So now we start arguing the degree of "whiteness" again?

Its like they think Melanin are fricking Midichlorians for evil.

13 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:01:43pm

re: #12 Kragar

Its like they think Melanin are fricking Midichlorians for evil.

That's far kinder than the place I immediately went to. But it would Godwin the thread, and that just won't do so early into it.

14 Simply Sarah  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:02:27pm

I think that, if anything, this demonstrates just how ridiculous labeling people in this manner tends to be.

15 jaunte  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:03:23pm

Charles, note: plug in 'ethnic' for "ethic classification."

16 jaunte  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:05:32pm

Maybe most of the Breitbarts are from places where Hispanic mostly means from Mexico and Central America.

17 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:07:57pm

Spike Lee has apologized:

I'm not sure if that's enough, but, well, that's something.

18 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:09:16pm

re: #16 jaunte

Maybe most of the Breitbarts are from places where Hispanic mostly means from Mexico and Central America.

Probably no maybe about it. The sad part is that this is a common misconception with most Americans.

19 EdDantes  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:09:43pm

I have spent a few minutes trying to find a link but I am unable to, so this is from memory. About 20 years ago Hispanics filed suit against the Mountain View, Ca. Fire Department. they contended that the MVFD was discriminating against Hispanics by hiring persons of Spanish origin.
I'm not Hispanic and so cannot say who is right but there does seem to be a distinction between "Hispanics" named Gutierrez and Spanish of the same surname.

My point: It is very sad that we need to make such distinctions among Americans but that is the country we live in.

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:12:18pm

re: #4 Gus

B.I.G.O.T.S.

So when do they start collaborating with American Renaissance? They already have a rather apparent undercurrent of white nationalism running through their veins. Their comment section certainly reflects that.

It's almost there, Gus.

[Link: amren.com...]

On Saturday, March 10, Jared Taylor will be speaking at a conference in Paris called “France in Danger.” It is sponsored by a group called Nationality-Citizenship-Identity (NCI), which expects an audience of approximately 1,000. Here is some of the advance publicity given by NCI to appearances by Mr. Taylor and by Filip Dewinter of the Vlaams Belang.

Wingnuts either embrace Vlaams Belang, or don't give a damn about collaborating with them.

21 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:13:02pm

Well...my ex-wife would really shatter their preconceived notions of ethnicity and race. She is is Jewish, with predominately Brazilian roots and burns much easier than I do in open sunlight. She identifies as Ladino, with her white skin, red hair, and green eyes.

Choke on that Breitbart.com.

22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:13:18pm

re: #19 EdDantes

Ethnically there is a HUGE difference. Spaniards (who do not consider themselves Hispanic at all) look down on the ones in Latin America as not being Spanish. There are differences in language as well. My wife/in-laws are Hispanic and they have completely different words for things than traditional Castillian Spanish. Hispanic = from Hispanola = from Latin America.

23 blueraven  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:14:25pm

re: #17 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

Spike Lee has apologized:

I'm not sure if that's enough, but, well, that's something.

I am glad he apologized, but he should offer a monetary solution as well. His actions drove these poor people out of their home. At the very least he should pay for their expenses and inconvenience until this dies down.

24 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:14:35pm

re: #19 EdDantes

I have spent a few minutes trying to find a link but I am unable to, so this is from memory. About 20 years ago Hispanics filed suit against the Mountain View, Ca. Fire Department. they contended that the MVFD was discriminating against Hispanics by hiring persons of Spanish origin.
I'm not Hispanic and so cannot say who is right but there does seem to be a distinction between "Hispanics" named Gutierrez and Spanish of the same surname.

My point: It is very sad that we need to make such distinctions among Americans but that is the country we live in.

The sad part is that the distinction needs to be made in order to correct a situation where discrimination has been going on. If a department was discriminating against people with Mexican ancestors and got around the attempted correction by hiring Spaniards, shame on them.

25 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:15:39pm

re: #22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

On the official level in the US it actually depends on the agency. Some agencies put everyone of Spanish descent in the def. That includes Spaniards, who, as you point out, don't identify themselves as Hispanic. Others add Portuguese descent. Yet others include only descent from Latin America.

26 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:16:04pm

The common denominator as far as I can tell regarding the definition of 'Hispanic' is 'Spanish'. How exactly that is necessarily supposed to denote 'non-white' is anyone's guess.

27 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:16:36pm

re: #22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Is your nic from the Unitarian Jihad?

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:16:53pm

re: #23 blueraven

I am glad he apologized, but he should offer a monetary solution as well. His actions drove these poor people out of their home. At the very least he should pay for their expenses and inconvenience until this dies down.

I agree. Personally, I think there should be some criminal punishment for such actions. But at the very least a monetary compensation and an apology on a level more official than a tweet.

29 Kragar  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:17:13pm
30 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:18:14pm

re: #22 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

There can be only one Spaniard - Maximus Decimus Meridius /Gladiator, just ignore the Aussie accent

31 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:18:32pm

re: #3 Kragar

Breitbart's flogging service - "Dead horses are our specialty!"

Image: beating-dead-horse.gif

32 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:18:41pm

I'm really not getting this focus on Zimmerman's ethnicity and how the attack can't be racially motivated.

Is the Breitbart.com/Fox News/John Birch viewpoint that since Zimmerman is part Latino, the murder can't have any racial motivation? Am I getting that right?

33 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:18:49pm

re: #29 Kragar

Oklahoma Judge Strikes Down State’s Mandatory Ultrasound Law

Perhaps this can serve as a template for challenging the same laws elsewhere.

34 jaunte  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:19:16pm

So the whole point of this effort by the miniBreitbarts is to discount the victimization of a black teenager by a man whose neighborhood watchdog impulses were well-known and accepted by the police and power structure of Sanford, Florida.

35 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:19:19pm

It's getting difficult to distinguish when the Breitlings are being opportunistic with racial definitions to bolster their side versus one-drop racist. They should set up a tag system for that.

36 thecommodore  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:19:41pm

Isn't Pau Gasol white?

37 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:19:49pm

re: #32 mattand

I'm really not getting this focus on Zimmerman's ethnicity and how the attack can't be racially motivated.

Is the Breitbart.com/Fox News/John Birch viewpoint that since Zimmerman is part Latino, the murder can't have any racial motivation? Am I getting that right?

Pretty much. They've been trying to argue since last week that it was a "minority on minority" crime, so it's not worthy of the media's attention. Or, if the media does pay attention, then it's being "hypocritical" for not covering all the other "minority crime."

38 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:20:04pm

President Josiah Bartlet was our first non-white president!!1!


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

39 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:20:12pm

re: #32 mattand

I'm really not getting this focus on Zimmerman's ethnicity and how the attack can't be racially motivated.

Is the Breitbart.com/Fox News/John Birch viewpoint that since Zimmerman is part Latino, the murder can't have any racial motivation? Am I getting that right?

I think so. With a little of a more malevolent motivation: just two brown-ish people killing each other, so nothing to see here.

40 RadicalModerate  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:20:32pm

I think that the Martin case has moved into a polarization zone that there are now only three groups of people's representative viewpoints:

1. The realists: Individuals who want to see justice done, no matter where the facts take the case.
2. The racists: Their only interests don't go beyond the color of one's skin, and view all of the world's issues in this fashion.
3. The trolls: They don't care about either side, they just want to fan the flames and see the world burn.

41 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:20:47pm

I was born in Argentina. Maternal grandparents from Spain. Paternal from Argentina who got there by way of Uruguay, Paraguay, Northern Italy -- grandmother by way of Majorca. Catholics through and through. I was the only blonde child of three.

42 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:21:04pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Pretty much. They've been trying to argue since last week that it was a "minority on minority" crime, so it's not worthy of the media's attention. Or, if the media does pay attention, then it's being "hypocritical" for not covering all the other "minority crime."

Exactly-- this is what I meant.

43 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:21:15pm

re: #17 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

Spike Lee has apologized:

[Embedded content]I'm not sure if that's enough, but, well, that's something.

He shouldn't have done it in the first fucking place.

People can be really dumb and act without thinking of the consequences.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:22:01pm

re: #32 mattand

I'm really not getting this focus on Zimmerman's ethnicity and how the attack can't be racially motivated.

Is the Breitbart.com/Fox News/John Birch viewpoint that since Zimmerman is part Latino, the murder can't have any racial motivation? Am I getting that right?

That actually shows the racism of those who bring it up. The occassional tensions between the black and Hispanic communities (which are, yes, intersecting) are well-known. They certainly can be race-based. So denying racism on the basis that the shooter is Hispanic is akin to saying: "Hee hee, we whites aren't responsible this time, so get off our shiny white backs, nobody cares".

45 Simply Sarah  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:22:50pm

re: #44 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

That actually shows the racism of those who bring it up. The occassional tensions between the black and Hispanic communities (which are, yes, intersecting) are well-known. They certainly can be race-based. So denying racism on the basis that the shooter is Hispanic is akin to saying: "Hee hee, we whites aren't responsible this time, so get off our shiny white backs, nobody cares".

Bingo.

46 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:23:06pm

Zimmerman's mom is Peruvian. About 19% of Peruvians are of 'pure' European descent. Many more are 'mestizos', and a substantial percentage are 'pure' American Indian. There's a substantial likelihood that according to a lot of people he'd be 'non-white', but this sort of mixing up of ethnicity and race really just demonstrates what a stupid concept race is and how dumb racists are.

All they're really doing is backing into the observation that these designators-- racial and ethnic-- are socially applied. I'm 'white', but I'm half Jewish, I'm technically Hispanic, and the Jewish part of me likely has some North African heritage in there as well. But I'm 'white' because that's how I get treated in society.

47 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:23:35pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

re: #39 Millicent Islam

I don't know what to say. That is so far beyond idiotic I'm amazed these people have the mental acuity to brush their fucking teeth.

It does explain, however, why the Fox News braintrust has been acting as Zimmerman's unpaid legal representation. That kind of twisted "logic" is exactly what their lily-white audience wants to hear.

48 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:24:18pm

re: #46 Obdicut

Zimmerman's man is Peruvian. About 19% of Peruvians are of 'pure' European descent. Many more are 'mestizos', and a substantial percentage are 'pure' American Indian. There's a substantial likelihood that according to a lot of people he'd be 'non-white', but this sort of mixing up of ethnicity and race really just demonstrates what a stupid concept race is and how dumb racists are.

All they're really doing is backing into the observation that these designators-- racial and ethnic-- are socially applied. I'm 'white', but I'm half Jewish, I'm technically Hispanic, and the Jewish part of me likely has some North African heritage in there as well. But I'm 'white' because that's how I get treated in society.

Shit, man. You couldn't join a decent country club anywhere.

49 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:24:52pm

What are they going to tell me that Castro isn't white either? Sure, he's Hispanic but also white -- the latter being a designation that include any variety of ethnicity. My aunt is from Cuba and I also met her parents many years ago. They're also white. There are also Afro-Cubans.

50 blueraven  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:25:28pm

re: #32 mattand

I'm really not getting this focus on Zimmerman's ethnicity and how the attack can't be racially motivated.

Is the Breitbart.com/Fox News/John Birch viewpoint that since Zimmerman is part Latino, the murder can't have any racial motivation? Am I getting that right?

That...and even if it is racially motivated, its not us (the real white people)!

51 EdDantes  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:26:07pm

I am reminded of an original Star Trek episode where a man (played by Frank Gorshin) was pursuing a slave aboard the Enterprise.The pursuer and pursued were both black and white i.e, half of their faces were white and the other half black. Gorshin explained that his race ws superior because he was white on the left side and the man he was after was white on the left side. Very Swiftian episode.

52 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:26:20pm

I had a Brazilian girlfriend several years back with Spanish, italian and Peruvian roots - she did not claim to be anything other than white.

53 redtickbeer  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:28:27pm

re: #32 mattand

is it also true that if there is no racial component to the murder than there can be no DOJ involvement?

54 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:28:45pm

re: #44 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

That actually shows the racism of those who bring it up. The occassional tensions between the black and Hispanic communities (which are, yes, intersecting) are well-known. They certainly can be race-based. So denying racism on the basis that the shooter is Hispanic is akin to saying: "Hee hee, we whites aren't responsible this time, so get off our shiny white backs, nobody cares".

Christ, you don't get more suburban whitebread than myself, and even I was aware of those tensions.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that there's a group of my fellow Americans that believes only whites and blacks can have racial conflict.

The amount of brain power needed to will yourself into that dimension of stupid could power 100 IBM Waston computers.

55 Simply Sarah  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:29:26pm

re: #51 EdDantes

I am reminded of an original Star Trek episode where a man (played by Frank Gorshin) was pursuing a slave aboard the Enterprise.The pursuer and pursued were both black and white i.e, half of their faces were white and the other half black. Gorshin explained that his race ws superior because he was white on the left side and the man he was after was white on the left side. Very Swiftian episode.

Let That Be Your Last Battlefield

56 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:30:01pm

re: #55 Simply Sarah

Let That Be Your Last Battlefield

Geek.

57 EdDantes  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:30:04pm

re: #52 Aye Pod

I had a Brazilian girlfriend several years back with Spanish, italian and Peruvian roots - she did not claim to be anything other than white.

Reminds me of a Sammy Davis Junior quip, " I'm a black Puerto Rican Jew. people say, 'get him. He's all of them!'

58 Simply Sarah  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:30:13pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

Geek.

Guilty!

59 EdDantes  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:31:35pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

Geek.

Ya know, I felt like a geek posting what I did.

60 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:31:51pm

re: #53 redtickbeer

is it also true that if there is no racial component to the murder than there can be no DOJ involvement?

I would hope not. I honestly don't know what the expanse of the DOJ's wheelhouse is.

I would like to think that they'd want to investigate why a 17 year old kid was killed for buying a snack in his soon-to-be stepmother's community. Obviously, the state of Florida doesn't give a shit.

61 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:32:03pm

re: #46 Obdicut

Zimmerman's man is Peruvian. About 19% of Peruvians are of 'pure' European descent. Many more are 'mestizos', and a substantial percentage are 'pure' American Indian. There's a substantial likelihood that according to a lot of people he'd be 'non-white', but this sort of mixing up of ethnicity and race really just demonstrates what a stupid concept race is and how dumb racists are.

All they're really doing is backing into the observation that these designators-- racial and ethnic-- are socially applied. I'm 'white', but I'm half Jewish, I'm technically Hispanic, and the Jewish part of me likely has some North African heritage in there as well. But I'm 'white' because that's how I get treated in society.

I remember listening to the "pure European" line of, how should I put it, crap, from my father's dad. Used to creep me out when I was already into my teen years. This notion of superiority based on that. Which was very strong in Argentina for many years and remains to this day. Which is why so much of the military leadership in Argentina was built around a lot of descendents of Italians.

62 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:32:10pm

re: #57 EdDantes

Reminds me of a Sammy Davis Junior quip, " I'm a black Puerto Rican Jew. people say, 'get him. He's all of them!'

Heh. Lived through most of his career, and never knew he was from Puerto Rico.

63 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:32:41pm

re: #54 mattand

Christ, you don't get more suburban whitebread than myself, and even I was aware of those tensions.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that there's a group of my fellow Americans that believes only whites and blacks can have racial conflict.

I really don't think that's it. I think it's what I suggested-- They believe that brown people kill each other all the time, so there's nothing surprising about this (if Zimmerman loses "white" status).

64 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:34:32pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

Heh. Lived through most of his career, and never knew he was from Puerto Rico.

He wasn't.

Samuel George Davis, Jr. was born in New York City, to Sammy Davis, Sr. (1900–1988), an African-American entertainer, and Elvera Sanchez (1905–2000),[4] a tap dancer. During his lifetime, Davis, Jr. stated that his mother was Puerto Rican and born in San Juan; however, in the 2003 biography In Black and White, author Wil Haygood writes that Davis, Jr.'s mother was born in New York City to Cuban American parents, and that Davis, Jr. claimed he was Puerto Rican because he feared anti-Cuban backlash would hurt his record sales.[5][6][7]

65 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:35:16pm

What we should also not forget in all of this is that anti-Hispanic attitudes are also racism, even though Hispanics are not a race. Racism includes prejudice against ethnic groups. In fact, many scholars do not distinguish between races and ethnic groups in the sense that a "race" can be seen as a big ethnic group. All of them are (in part) social constructs anyway.

66 EdDantes  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:37:21pm

re: #64 talon_262

Too bad he felt it necessary to deceive. In any case, he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 20th. century

67 Simply Sarah  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:39:05pm

re: #60 mattand

I would hope not. I honestly don't know what the expanse of the DOJ's wheelhouse is.

I would like to think that they'd want to investigate why a 17 year old kid was killed for buying a snack in his soon-to-be stepmother's community. Obviously, the state of Florida doesn't give a shit.

They can only do that if a federal crime was committed. If it's just a killing without any other factors, they can't do anything.

68 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:39:06pm

re: #63 Millicent Islam

I really don't think that's it. I think it's what I suggested-- They believe that brown people kill each other all the time, so there's nothing surprising about this (if Zimmerman loses "white" status).

Sad. I know too many people in my tiny slice of the planet who think like this.

69 EdDantes  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:39:14pm

re: #65 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

You nailed it. It is primarily a social construct.

70 allegro  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:41:44pm

re: #57 EdDantes

Reminds me of a Sammy Davis Junior quip, " I'm a black Puerto Rican Jew. people say, 'get him. He's all of them!'

That reminds me of his response to someone asking about his golf game. He said "I'm a black Puerto Rico Jew with one eye and you're asking me what my HANDICAP is?"

71 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:42:06pm

re: #66 EdDantes

Too bad he felt it necessary to deceive. In any case, he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 20th. century

My first job out of the seminary was in a NYC warehouse employing mostly new Cuban and Puerto Rican arrivals. Expanded my Spanish vocabulary wonderfully.

72 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:42:22pm

Looks like Dave Weigel is stepping up to the plate on the comment insanity. This time at Daily Caller.

Why It's a Good Idea to Turn Off Comments on Trayvon Martin Posts

73 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:42:37pm

re: #63 Millicent Islam

I really don't think that's it. I think it's what I suggested-- They believe that brown people kill each other all the time, so there's nothing surprising about this (if Zimmerman loses "white" status).

Pretty much; if they can somehow win the argument that Zimmerman can't be "white" because he's also Hispanic in the court of public opinion, they'll just say "they kill each other all the time, what's the big deal with this one?"

74 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:43:24pm

re: #17 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

Spike Lee has apologized:

[Embedded content]I'm not sure if that's enough, but, well, that's something.

Actually, it was at least a genuine and unqualified apology. Let me re-write it in wingnut, for comparison:

I apologize if I somehow offended the McClains with my honest and well meant attempt to acheive some justice in this situation. I guess there's no place in the so called 'America' of today for simple well meaning folks like myself.

PS And now I know how Joan of Arc felt, as the flames rose to her Roman nose and her Walkman started to melt...

75 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:45:06pm

re: #74 Aye Pod

It was only an apology to the family that got unfairly harassed, not about doing it in the first place at all, though.

76 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:46:38pm

re: #75 Obdicut

It was only an apology to the family that got unfairly harassed, not about doing it in the first place at all, though.

That's true. He shouldn't posted any address in the first place.

77 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:47:41pm

re: #66 EdDantes

Too bad he felt it necessary to deceive. In any case, he was one of the greatest entertainers of the 20th. century

At his zenith in the 50s and 60s, the Red Scare was still there in spades, especially after Castro's revolution 90 miles off the Florida coast and the ensuing tensions resulting from all that.

Given the context of the times, I can't say as I'd blame him.

78 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:47:56pm

re: #72 Gus

Looks like Dave Weigel is stepping up to the plate on the comment insanity. This time at Daily Caller.

Why It's a Good Idea to Turn Off Comments on Trayvon Martin Posts

Didja see the commenter named Jojo? Spouting barely restrained racism in the post while the subtitle after his/her name says "no more puppy mills".

I guess the upside is that if Jojo has a minority move in next door, they won't kick their dog regardless of how angry they get.

79 Gus  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:51:57pm

re: #78 mattand

Didja see the commenter named Jojo? Spouting barely restrained racism in the post while the subtitle after his/her name says "no more puppy mills".

I guess the upside is that if Jojo has a minority move in next door, they won't kick their dog regardless of how angry they get.

That kind of thing can drive me batty sometimes. Like confronting some hater troll with a cute bunny rabbit avatar.

80 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:53:56pm

Movin' on up like George and Weezie ^

81 allegro  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:54:44pm

Sammy Davis Jr was crazy talented even as a little bitty kid:

I truly loved that guy. Had the tremendous pleasure of seeing him perform in a small, nightclub venue in Chicago in the late 60s. He was awesome.

82 Mattand  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 12:55:05pm

re: #79 Gus

That kind of thing can drive me batty sometimes. Like confronting some hater troll with a cute bunny rabbit avatar.

You know who had a cute bunny avatar?

My cousin Jeff.

Oh, yeah, and HITLER!!!!!!111!11

83 chaosium  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 1:13:39pm

re: #78 mattand

Plenty of racist conservatives treat their animals better than they treat their fellow man, white or otherwise.

Also, the Breitbart kiddies have never lived around minorities, ever if they think that it's impossible for latinos to be racist towards blacks, or vice versa.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 1:59:58pm

re: #32 mattand

I'm really not getting this focus on Zimmerman's ethnicity and how the attack can't be racially motivated.

Is the Breitbart.com/Fox News/John Birch viewpoint that since Zimmerman is part Latino, the murder can't have any racial motivation? Am I getting that right?

There seem to be several strands to their ideas. In no particular order:

1. This can't have been racial, since the shooter wasn't white.

2. The shooter was described as white falsely by the liberal media, to whip up racial tensions.

3. White people are not responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin. Therefore, the law has no place here--let the blacks and the Hispanics argue about it!

4. White people are being persecuted by associating them with Zimmerman. (But Zimmerman is also a hero for shooting a black person.)

5. Zimmerman's half-Latino, and was described as white. That means the President is white, right? Heh heh heh.

6. Obsessing about George Zimmerman's race is more important than whether he actually did anything illegal or immoral.

7. Latinos are wild cards! The introduction of one into a high profile situation means that the entire racial history of blacks in America and the state of Florida is now IRRELEVANT!!!

85 Lidane  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 2:08:38pm

Dear Breitbart morons,

You think white people can't be Latino?

Cameron Diaz disagrees. So does Alexis Bledel. Same goes for Victoria Justice, James Roday, Madeleine Stowe, and Raquel Welch.

BTW, Zoe Saldana and Rosario Dawson are also Latina. So yes, Latino people can come from any race. Turn on Telemundo and Univision sometime.

In short, get bent you ignorant, bigoted assholes.

No love,
Me

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 2:09:12pm

re: #49 Gus

What are they going to tell me that Castro isn't white either? Sure, he's Hispanic but also white -- the latter being a designation that include any variety of ethnicity. My aunt is from Cuba and I also met her parents many years ago. They're also white. There are also Afro-Cubans.

It gets a little nuts, and not on the winger side alone. There's a website the Women's Studies department of one college started that's supposed to be a database of information about American women writers of color. It's a good resource, but since I came in as someone who was asking them to include more Jewish writers, (I got several on the list, go me), the oddities of how they understood race were very...odd...and apparent to me. Jews and the Americas is where it gets funny. They couldn't quite distinguish 'Hispanophone' and 'raised in Latin America' from 'nonwhite'. Hence, Marjorie Agosin worked for them. But I didn't ask about Grace Paley.

87 Mr.Boots  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 2:37:25pm

I've read this and the previous thread about Zimmerman's whiteness/non-whiteness with interest and decided, with trepidations, thatI would toss this experience in the ring.

About fifteen years ago I taught for two years in a Long Island school district that was 87% Black, 12% Latino, and the rest "other." This very discussion came up and I was astonished that my Latino students, largely Central American, stated that they did not consider themselves White.

After I controlled my surprise, I asked them what they did consider themselves. They considered themselves Latino, and no amount of discussion could convince them that Hispanics were considered to be White. Several students rejected that with the same example, " my uncle/aunt/ grandmother/etc. is as Black as "Steven" over there, how can I be White? I'm Black more than I'm White."

There it is. I was taken aback by the whole incident, but I've never forgotten it. Nothing is as black and white as it seems.

88 danhenry1  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 7:57:38pm

I wonder if we soon be at that hopeful place where the discussion of 'Race', will be something our children abhor.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 9:17:24pm

re: #87 Mr.Boots

I've read this and the previous thread about Zimmerman's whiteness/non-whiteness with interest and decided, with trepidations, thatI would toss this experience in the ring.

About fifteen years ago I taught for two years in a Long Island school district that was 87% Black, 12% Latino, and the rest "other." This very discussion came up and I was astonished that my Latino students, largely Central American, stated that they did not consider themselves White.

After I controlled my surprise, I asked them what they did consider themselves. They considered themselves Latino, and no amount of discussion could convince them that Hispanics were considered to be White. Several students rejected that with the same example, " my uncle/aunt/ grandmother/etc. is as Black as "Steven" over there, how can I be White? I'm Black more than I'm White."

There it is. I was taken aback by the whole incident, but I've never forgotten it. Nothing is as black and white as it seems.

Latin America is sometimes described as the meeting of three 'worlds', Indian, European, and African. Race is deeply complicated, and charged, and how people see themselves varies a lot, depending on area, family, culture, etc.

The fact that Latin America's whole psycho baggage about race, while being right next door, doesn't match up with the United States' whole psycho baggage about race just adds, well, more psycho baggage.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 29, 2012 9:19:57pm

re: #88 danhenry1

I wonder if we soon be at that hopeful place where the discussion of 'Race', will be something our children abhor.

I don't know if abhorring it is the goal. Maybe thinking of it as something historical would be better.

91 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Mar 30, 2012 9:36:04am

Why are too many Americans so dumb that they don't understand the difference between ethnicity and race? All throughout Latin America you have Blacks, Whites and Indigenous populations, which are separate races, but all Latinos/Hispanics.
Even if "Hispanic" was a race, it would make no difference as to whether or not the Trayvon killing was racially-motivated. I am sure that Hispanics of various races can be anti-Black.


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