Conservatives Advocate Wasting Energy for 'Earth Hour'

Conservatives Advocate Wasting Energy for ‘Earth Hour’

How is this “conservative?”

WingnutsApril 2012 • Views: 28,228

One of the weirdest reactionary things conservatives do is to gleefully waste energy to show those dumb liberals what they think of their “Earth Day” and “Earth Hour:” Turn on the Lights for Human Achievement Hour.

Tonight, from 8:30 to 9:30, environmentalists will observe Earth Hour, turning off all their lights for an hour. For those who don’t want to spend an hour in the dark, the Competitive Enterprise Institute is offering an alternative: Human Achievement Hour. They are encouraging everyone to turn on the lights in honor of human accomplishments. …

Human beings have made untold achievements until now. Who knows what will be accomplished in the future. In honor of that, I plan to spend Human Achievement Hour reading Atlas Shrugged, with all my lights turned on and Aaron Copland’s “Fanfare For the Common Man” playing in the background.

Turning off lights and sitting in the dark for an hour probably isn’t going to accomplish much to help the environment. The symbolism’s nice, but actually getting out and getting involved politically would be a lot more effective.

But I’ll never understand what’s supposed to be “conservative” about deliberately wasting energy. These people are not well — and if you need further proof for that assertion, just go read some of the comments for this article at townhall.com.

UPDATE at 4/1/12 7:18:34 pm

Here’s some more information on the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

Also see

Lights Off for Earth Hour? Rightbloggers Leave Lights On, Declare Victory

Jump to bottom

327 comments

ReamWorks SKG Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:02:48pm

As someone who generates his own electricity and drives an electric car, I'm absolutely dumfounded that energy independence (and conservation/efficiency is a means to achieve this) isn't embraced by conservatives, especially those with Libertarian leanings. What could be more aligned with personal freedom than being able to generate and store your own energy, and for each individual to be energy self-sufficient?

(BTW: That link is busted!)

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:04:20pm

A true conservative will go on doing what they were doing to begin with, because they should have had a good reason to do it in the first place.

If the clothes need to be washed, they should be washed. If the food needs to be cooked, it should be cooked.

Have I ever explained why I like using re-usable grocery bags? They're a superior product. Period. They stand up straight, they have nice strong handles, and they carry more.

Do what you were going to do for a good reason, and ignore the hype.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:05:36pm

It's about a group of 12 year olds, told by their moms not to do something so they not only do it, they over do it.

It just shows they don't understand what Earth hour is about, but assume it's about the one hour energy saving and a desire to go back to the days of horse and buggy.

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:08:10pm

God made energy for humans to use. What could be simpler?

Romantic Heretic Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:10:15pm

I wonder why he is playing Fanfare for The Common Man when the fact that he is reading Atlas Shrugged shows that he believes himself exceptional and not common at all?

These alleged conservatives are just a bundle of contradictions, aren't they?

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:11:09pm

Not this dopey crap again. It's like the right wing is populated by a bunch of adolescent man-children.

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:11:17pm

Not to mention that if these people actually ever read Atlas Shrugged, they'd probably swallow their dentures at the sex scenes.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:13:31pm

re: #4 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

God made energy for humans to use. What could be simpler?

It's not the use of energy, it's the form of energy production that is an issue. Earth hour is about the recognition that making small sacrifices can produce large effects so sitting on your hands because you're only one person or household is not a real option. The push should be for new technologies that produce useful energy without increasing the amount of GHGs put into the atmosphere.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:15:14pm

The Twitter icon on my end isn't fully loading and it leads me to the front page. Tried clearing everything just now including re-booting. Same thing. Could be my end with Mozilla Aurora.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:16:17pm

Uh oh. Now when I click to check the dings it's leading me to the front page.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:19:30pm

re: #8 Bee#

It's not the use of energy, it's the form of energy production that is an issue. Earth hour is about the recognition that making small sacrifices can produce large effects so sitting on your hands because you're only one person or household is not a real option. The push should be for new technologies that produce useful energy without increasing the amount of GHGs put into the atmosphere.

If the small sacrifices are a good idea, they should be done all the time.

Here's an idea: Why don't we actually start running the hydroelectric dams and wind farms in the Northwest at capacity and shipping the cheap electricity south?

Bonneville currently idles the wind farms if the dams are producing too much, as in Spring, which is also when the wind is up. When we were at Bonneville dam a few springs ago, they mentioned that they could produce more power than they do. I couldn't quite get the jist of why, but it sounded political. (The lack of an easily understandable reason was the hint that it was political.)

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:20:43pm

re: #10 Gus

Uh oh. Now when I click to check the dings it's leading me to the front page.

Try dropping the mouse on something hard.

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:23:08pm

Come now, my fellow "conservatives," why look upon Earth Hour as a bad thing? In the spirit of Ayn Rand, think of it as "Going Galt"! You're shutting down all those federally-mandated electronic goods, shutting yourself off from that federally-controlled electrical grid, and cutting down your consumption of electricity produced at federally-regulated power plants!

Take pride in being your own man for an hour, sitting in the dark, reading "Atlas Shrugged" by candle-light as you get a good idea of what life would be like if that big, mean ol' government never existed!

Lidane Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:24:14pm

But I’ll never understand what’s supposed to be “conservative” about deliberately wasting energy.

It's stupid, immature, and reactionary. Ergo, it's a perfect reflection of the modern RWNJs that make up the GOP base and the RW blogosphere.

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:24:44pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Not to mention that if these people actually ever read Atlas Shrugged, they'd probably swallow their dentures at the sex scenes.

He probably spent the hour at Pamela's blog, not reading that Ayn Rand doorstop.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:24:52pm

re: #11 Mostly sane, most of the time.

If the small sacrifices are a good idea, they should be done all the time.

The small sacrifice of turning off lights for an hour isn't the point, it's a symbol of what can be done by organizing groups of like minded people. It's an attempt to empower people who otherwise view themselves as insignificant.

Here's an idea: Why don't we actually start running the hydroelectric dams and wind farms in the Northwest at capacity and shipping the cheap electricity south?

Bonneville currently idles the wind farms if the dams are producing too much, as in Spring, which is also when the wind is up. When we were at Bonneville dam a few springs ago, they mentioned that they could produce more power than they do. I couldn't quite get the jist of why, but it sounded political. (The lack of an easily understandable reason was the hint that it was political.)

I agree. I would also like to see some Gen III nukes built and used.

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:25:37pm

re: #11 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I think the problem is that we don't have a national distribution grid. Admittedly it is a big country and expensive to build, but part of the problem is political as I believe there are laws that regulate how power companies can operate and in what areas. There is also an expensive technical hurdle to synchronizing power in AC transmissions.

Power companies don't have the incentive to invest more than they need, and conservative government doesn't think it should be in the business of thinking nationally.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:26:06pm

Over the past few months I've noticed solar panels going up all over town here. At first I thought it was individuals doing it, but when I went out with a friend for my bday last week, I noticed that they're on all the streetlights in many areas now. I guess PSE&G is installing them to run the lights.

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:26:42pm

re: #10 Gus

Uh oh. Now when I click to check the dings it's leading me to the front page.

That means your browser's Javascript engine is hosed for some reason. On a Windows system it's probably best to restart when that happens.

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:28:59pm

re: #18 CuriousLurker

Over the past few months I've noticed solar panels going up all over town here. At first I thought it was individuals doing it, but when I went out with a friend for my bday last week, I noticed that they're on all the streetlights in many areas now. I guess PSE&G is installing them to run the lights.

Street lighting can be very economical that way if one doesn't have to run power lines.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:29:44pm

re: #20 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Street lighting can be very economical that way if one doesn't have to run power lines.

Are they coupled with LEDs?

Batman Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:29:49pm

Most critics of Earth Hour, especially anti-environmentalists, appear to believe the message is anti-technology, as if the WWF is advocating shunning all technology, all the time. Thus, "Human Achievement Hour."

Environmentalists should adopt "Human Achievement Hour" by highlighting human achievements in clean, renewable energy solutions. That would highlight the critics' opposition to actual technological innovation and human achievement.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:30:45pm

re: #22 Batman

Most critics of Earth Hour, especially anti-environmentalists, appear to believe the message is anti-technology, as if the WWF is advocating shunning all technology, all the time. Thus, "Human Achievement Hour."

Environmentalists should adopt "Human Achievement Hour" by highlighting human achievements in clean, renewable energy solutions. That would highlight the critics' opposition to actual technological innovation and human achievement.

Exactly.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:30:56pm

re: #18 CuriousLurker

Over the past few months I've noticed solar panels going up all over town here. At first I thought it was individuals doing it, but when I went out with a friend for my bday last week, I noticed that they're on all the streetlights in many areas now. I guess PSE&G is installing them to run the lights.

The technology is getting pretty close to being viable for home use too. Another 5-10 years and we should be there.

Kragar Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:31:04pm

Atlas Shrugged, where the biggest fantasy is that a bunch of millionaires would remove themselves from society so they clean their own toilets and clean up after cooking their own dinners.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:32:10pm

re: #10 Gus

Uh oh. Now when I click to check the dings it's leading me to the front page.

Throw your mouse on the floor. It worked for me.

Kragar Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:33:18pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Throw your mouse on the floor. It worked for me.

CALL PETA!

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:34:35pm

re: #21 Bee#

Are they coupled with LEDs?

Of course. Since existing poles probably already have power lines, I suspect the savings is a combination of lifetime and power consumption. Small PV panels and battery for lighting are not expensive anymore. Made in China no doubt.

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:34:59pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

The technology is getting pretty close to being viable for home use too. Another 5-10 years and we should be there.

Think that will be the next big energy revolution, moving away from centralized power generation to home power units. Still a lot of work to go on that front, but it's becoming a reality all the same.

Lidane Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:35:12pm

re: #25 Kragar

Atlas Shrugged, where the biggest fantasy is that a bunch of millionaires would remove themselves from society so they clean their own toilets and clean up after cooking their own dinners.

Seriously.

Objectivism is ridiculous on its face. A bunch of millionaires and billionaires aren't going to secede from society in order to grow and cook their own food, make their own clothing, and clean up after themselves. Ayn Rand lived in a fantasy world.

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:35:44pm

re: #30 Lidane

Seriously.

Objectivism is ridiculous on its face. A bunch of millionaires and billionaires aren't going to secede from society in order to grow and cook their own food, make their own clothing, and clean up after themselves. Ayn Rand lived in a fantasy world.

And that fantasy world was...Rapture.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:35:47pm

re: #20 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Heh, I kieep reading your new nic as Flim Flam Tomini Tang. I have no idea why my brain insists on doing that.

BTW, out fo curiosity I finally looked up Tang fish on Wikipedia. They're all beautiful! It's no wonder you like them.

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:36:07pm

Here's how I'll be celebrating earth hour

Youtube Video

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:37:17pm

re: #28 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Of course. Since existing poles probably already have power lines, I suspect the savings is a combination of lifetime and power consumption. Small PV panels and battery for lighting are not expensive anymore. Made in China no doubt.

Yeah, the poles I mentioned have power lines attached.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:38:12pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

The technology is getting pretty close to being viable for home use too. Another 5-10 years and we should be there.

I hope so. I'd love to live long enough to see us wean ourselves from ME oil.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:39:06pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Here's how I'll be celebrating earth hour

[Embedded content]

Humans fall for all sorts of nonsense.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:39:25pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Oh, FFS. *headdesk*

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:40:11pm

re: #35 CuriousLurker

I hope so. I'd love to live long enough to see us wean ourselves from ME oil.

I'd like to see all burning of fossil fuels stopped so the oil can be saved for synthetics.

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:40:43pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Friggin' Druids!

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:41:03pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

How do these people think that trees will hear them?
Or care?

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:41:33pm

One of the weirdest reactionary things conservatives do is to gleefully waste energy to show those dumb liberals what they think of their “Earth Day” and “Earth Hour”

Oh. Okay. Who wants to help me start "Don't Drink Water Contaminated by Raw Sewage Day"?

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:41:55pm

re: #35 CuriousLurker

I hope so. I'd love to live long enough to see us wean ourselves from ME oil.

I don't think many of us will live to see that. It will happen eventually but especially for Americans the appetite for consumption will far exceed our ability to produce for a very long time. My inner hippie thinks it's a cultural problem much more than a technological one.

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:42:39pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

The technology is getting pretty close to being viable for home use too. Another 5-10 years and we should be there.

We are there now. The problem is that power companies are only reluctantly allowing tie in to their systems. That is sell back at market rates, as opposed to just reducing one's bill. Also, the investment capital needs to be amortized over perhaps 10 years for payback. Most people have other more immediately satisfying uses for such capital, if they have it at all.

The real potential is in an integrated intelligent grid, similar to the internet in many ways, but transmitting intelligent power instead of just data.

I recommend "The Third Industrial Revolution" by J Rifkin. Unfortunately the US will not get there first.

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:43:59pm

re: #32 CuriousLurker

Heh, I kieep reading your new nic as Flim Flam Tomini Tang. I have no idea why my brain insists on doing that.

BTW, out fo curiosity I finally looked up Tang fish on Wikipedia. They're all beautiful! It's no wonder you like them.

That occurred to me too. Eventually I will run out of the weirder names. Watch this space on the first of the months.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:44:16pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

I don't think many of us will live to see that. It will happen eventually but especially for Americans the appetite for consumption will far exceed our ability to produce for a very long time. My inner hippie thinks it's a cultural problem much more than a technological one.

My inner hippie agrees. *sigh*

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:44:28pm

re: #41 Interesting Times

Oh. Okay. Who wants to help me start "Don't Drink Water Contaminated by Raw Sewage Day"?

How 'bout. " Don't drink water 'cause fish fuck in it." ?

MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:44:44pm

re: #22 Batman

Most critics of Earth Hour, especially anti-environmentalists, appear to believe the message is anti-technology, as if the WWF is advocating shunning all technology, all the time. Thus, "Human Achievement Hour."

Environmentalists should adopt "Human Achievement Hour" by highlighting human achievements in clean, renewable energy solutions. That would highlight the critics' opposition to actual technological innovation and human achievement.

And because Rush tells them to; that's just about all one needs to know about the RWNJ hive mind.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:45:41pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Throw your mouse on the floor. It worked for me.

What's your address, I need to send you the check for the broken mouse! //

MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:46:47pm

re: #30 Lidane

Seriously.

Objectivism is ridiculous on its face. A bunch of millionaires and billionaires aren't going to secede from society in order to grow and cook their own food, make their own clothing, and clean up after themselves. Ayn Rand ~~lived in a fantasy world~~ was just seriously fucked in the head.

FTFY ;-P

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:47:01pm

re: #22 Batman

I was Kaiser Bill's Batman.

Youtube Video

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:47:54pm

re: #40 Floral Giraffe

How do these people think that trees will hear them?
Or care?

They believe their spiritualism will improve their lives and talking to the trees (communing with nature) will trigger some of that spiritualism. It's the same as pyramid power, crystals, transcendental meditation and most naturopathic cures.

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:48:40pm

"Don't Eat Paste Day"
"Don't Bungee Jump Without a Cord Day"
"Don't Use Tabasco Sauce as a Personal Lubricant Day"

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:49:30pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

That means your browser's Javascript engine is hosed for some reason. On a Windows system it's probably best to restart when that happens.

OK. I'll figure it out later. I'm on the Toyshiba right now.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:49:41pm

Hey all!

How is the day so far?

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:49:51pm

re: #43 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I recommend "The Third Industrial Revolution" by J Rifkin. Unfortunately the US will not get there first.

I just took a quick look at that book on Amazon and it seems readable, looks interesting. Is it? I mean for someone like me who's mostly into cultural & artsy-fartsy stuff and has very little science background?

I'd like to know more, but I don't want to have to go back to school & take classes just to understand what I'm reading.

Lidane Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:50:12pm

re: #49 talon_262

FTFY ;-P

Well, yes. That too.

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:50:15pm

re: #52 Interesting Times
Don't Idle Your Car with the Garage Door Closed Day.
Don't Smoke While Filling Up the Gas Tank Day

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:50:55pm

Getting this with the Townhall link now:

The page you requested cannot be found. The page you requested cannot be found.

They pull it?

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:51:23pm

re: #52 Interesting Times

"Don't Eat Paste Day"
"Don't Bungee Jump Without a Cord Day"
"Don't Use Tabasco Sauce as a Personal Lubricant Day"

Number three should not be on your list.

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:51:27pm

This is so stupid on their part. Whose side are they on anyway?

Resources are limited, so increased demand comes along with an increased price. The best way to reduce the price for energy is to use less of it and the easiest way to use less is to waste less. We would generate less carbon emissions and drive the price down at the same time. Win-win.

Be a real Conserve-ative.

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:51:27pm

re: #57 wheatdogg

Don't try, 'No Doz'
Better stay away from those
That carry around a fire hose
Keep a clean nose
Watch the plain clothes
You don't need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows.

Buck Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:52:25pm

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:52:39pm

re: #58 Gus

Try this link

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:53:03pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Come now, my fellow "conservatives," why look upon Earth Hour as a bad thing? In the spirit of Ayn Rand, think of it as "Going Galt"! You're shutting down all those federally-mandated electronic goods, shutting yourself off from that federally-controlled electrical grid, and cutting down your consumption of electricity produced at federally-regulated power plants!

Take pride in being your own man for an hour, sitting in the dark, reading "Atlas Shrugged" by candle-light as you get a good idea of what life would be like if that big, mean ol' government never existed!

Yes, but that would require trying to understand what Ayn Rand was trying to say, whereas the writer of that bit of schlock just wants to validate his own sense of superiority.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:53:50pm

re: #63 wheatdogg

Try this link

Thanks. Already found it and got a taste of its total dopiness and beclowning.

Lidane Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:53:56pm

re: #60 Mich-again

This is so stupid on their part. Whose side are they on anyway?

The side that thinks that anything remotely concerned with the Earth or the environment is evil and wrong. You know, because of Al Gore or something. And because Republican Jesus gave them dominion over Nature, they have to act like imbeciles when we start getting closer to Earth Day.

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:54:06pm

re: #55 CuriousLurker

I just took a quick look at that book on Amazon and it seems readable, looks interesting. Is it? I mean for someone like me who's mostly into cultural & artsy-fartsy stuff and has very little science background?

I'd like to know more, but I don't want to have to go back to school & take classes just to understand what I'm reading.

It is not very technical at all, but somewhat wordy at times. It is a description of the concepts in a non technical way, along with detailed personal accounts of meetings with mostly European leaders in government and industry promoting the concepts, as well as being commissioned to study particular country needs.

Also somewhat depressing at times, in how hard it is to get people to plan and act for the future, as opposed to the now.

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:54:17pm

re: #58 Gus

Getting this with the Townhall link now:

The page you requested cannot be found. The page you requested cannot be found.

They pull it?

Nope, but they changed the URL for some reason. Fixed now. Here's the new URL:

[Link: townhall.com...]

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:54:29pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

That's like the magical balance fairies of magical balance fairies if I ever saw one.

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:55:30pm

re: #62 Buck

Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

There is a wide range of opinions and agendas among the world's Muslims. Not true with the modern GOP. There is only with-us and against-us.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:55:32pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

People would, and they do. Believe me, Buck, if you're not siding with those goofballs we'll accept that. But Townhall is fairly influential.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:55:49pm

re: #62 Buck

Muslim. Derangement. Syndrome. Eleventy.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:55:59pm

re: #67 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

It is not very technical at all, but somewhat wordy at times. It is a description of the concepts in a non technical way, along with detailed personal accounts of meetings with mostly European leaders in government and industry promoting the concepts, as well as being commissioned to study particular country needs.

Also somewhat depressing at times, in how hard it is to get people to plan and act for the future, as opposed to the now.

Thanks. I think I'll download the Kindle sample and take it for a spin.

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:56:22pm

Remind me again, when did waste became a fundamental American value?

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:57:11pm

re: #62 Buck

Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

We can make that distinction. What is your point?

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:57:22pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Though Ayn Rand was an evil sociopath who worshipped a child killer.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:57:28pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

Warped sense of humour?

People like Chuck Adler, Roy Green, John Gormley, Ezra Levant and dozens of other conservative pundits talk like this all year long.

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:57:44pm

Conservatives for Waste. Behold the Modern GOP/Tea Party.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:58:17pm

Here ya' go. From the author:

Global Warming - Helen Whalen-Cohen

Youtube Video

Libertarian. Sounds like something you would hear in junior high.

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:58:31pm

re: #69 Gus

That's like the magical balance fairies of magical balance fairies if I ever saw one.

Not only that, but the Townhall article was published on March 31st, not today.

Fail^10¹⁰ :P

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:58:58pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

Oh please. The entire conservative blogosphere does this every time Earth Day rolls around. It's not just an April Fool's joke, and you know it. Who are you trying to kid?

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:59:43pm

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

When the first paleoindian hunting party ran a herd of buffalo off a cliff to get at a supply of meat they could eat, prepare and transport for a short while. It's human, and we are trying to learn better.

[Link: academic.emporia.edu...]

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:01:21pm

re: #81 Charles Johnson

Oh please. The entire conservative blogosphere does this every time Earth Day rolls around. It's not just an April Fool's joke, and you know it. Who are you trying to kid?

Buck = Ferrous Cranus

Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:01:35pm

re: #81 Charles Johnson

Oh please. The entire conservative blogosphere does this every time Earth Day rolls around. It's not just an April Fool's joke, and you know it. Who are you trying to kid?

Yeah. This is just another right-wing April Fool's joke and something about Muslims.

Whoooo boy.

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:02:10pm

re: #72 Gus

Muslim. Derangement. Syndrome. Eleventy.

I'm still waiting for the day when there'll be a thread with 100+ posts in which Islam/Muslims doesn't get mentioned at some point.

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:02:51pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

I'm still waiting for the day when there'll be a thread with 100+ posts in which Islam/Muslims doesn't get mentioned at some point.

That would be the recurring boob-pun thread.

palomino Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:03:02pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

Oh, you and your right wing co-ideologues are such victims. My heart bleeds for you. No one knows how you've suffered.

Your victimology is an absurd joke.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:03:05pm

re: #76 ProGunLiberal

And yes, I know being that nasty is incendiary, but I think that description is true.

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:03:10pm

re: #79 Gus

"It's not coming to get us tomorrow." Now that is sophisticated analysis.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:03:17pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

I'm still waiting for the day when there'll be a thread with 100+ posts in which Islam/Muslims doesn't get mentioned at some point.

Yeah, seems to be on everyone's minds and every newspaper.

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:03:27pm

re: #76 ProGunLiberal

Though Ayn Rand was an evil sociopath who worshipped a child killer.

Michael Prescott needs to get a professional web designer. Can't his publisher tell him to open a Wordpress or a Typepad account? That page was like a wormhole to 1998.

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:03:39pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

Yeah, it has happened before. Usually because somebody got on the Pun Train.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:04:18pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

I'm still waiting for the day when there'll be a thread with 100+ posts in which Islam/Muslims doesn't get mentioned at some point.

Might take a miracle. ;)

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:04:23pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Buck = Ferrous Cranus

Hahahahaha. I revisited that site earlier this weekend and was matching people up to their Flame Warrior counterparts.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:04:58pm

anyone hear of this guy/case?

I got a petition request in my inbox today for his case.

Sad. Very Very Sad.

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:05:05pm

re: #79 Gus

Here ya' go. From the author:

Global Warming - Helen Whalen-Cohen

Libertarian. Sounds like something you would hear in junior high.

Meanwhile, in Texas:

TDEM considers worst-case scenario: cities running out of water. There are 100-200 systems in Texas (such as Groesbeck) that have surface water only and are upstream of a reservoir. The cost of trucking in water to Groesbeck (population 6000) would cost over $60,000/day.

Loss of water supplies for power generation from reservoirs that are already historically low would cause rolling blackouts at a minimum. Vulnerability of industrial and chemical plants is in the process of being assessed.

Durr hurr, let's show those Big Government Libz trying to restrict our Real American™ water use by hosing down our driveways 24/7! Derp.

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:05:23pm

re: #88 ProGunLiberal

And yes, I know being that nasty is incendiary, but I think that description is true.

I've seen the Ayn Rand and the serial killer thing brought up before.

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:05:28pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

When the first paleoindian hunting party ran a herd of buffalo off a cliff to get at a supply of meat they could eat, prepare and transport for a short while. It's human, and we are trying to learn better.

[Link: academic.emporia.edu...]

They used to kill off an entire herd because it was simpler than separating out just what they needed. We still insist on taking the easy way.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:06:02pm

re: #96 Interesting Times

Meanwhile, in Texas:

I've heard that fresh water supplies are going to be a REALLY, REALLY big deal in the not so far-off future.

100

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:07:23pm

re: #81 Charles Johnson

Oh please. The entire conservative blogosphere does this every time Earth Day rolls around. It's not just an April Fool's joke, and you know it. Who are you trying to kid?

What do you know about Claire Parkinson? A denier, a scientist, what? She is a NASA employee so she has credentials.

Zedushka brought her book home "Coming Climate Crisis" from the library saying he's going to read about "climate science and stuff."

101

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:07:26pm

re: #91 Learned Mother of Zion

True, but the information there is so, so juicy. He has a proper blog though too, with the bland normal design. Here, same thing, just on his blog.

102

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:07:48pm

re: #98 Bee#

They used to kill off an entire herd because it was simpler than separating out just what they needed. We still insist on taking the easy way.

Wasn't it a bit safer too, for the hunters/herders?

Buffalo can be dangerous.

Simple also means "takes less resources". Leaves more time to harvest the animal parts they need and does use all the spears/arrows they have in stock --if they have any.

103

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:08:12pm

re: #90 ggt

Yeah, seems to be on everyone's minds and every newspaper.

OBL & Co. really did a number on us. %#@$^!

104

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:08:27pm

re: #96 Interesting Times

One of the little discussed environmental problems is the water supplies to naturally arid areas of the USA. It's not just the rivers feeding into reservoirs and the ongoing battle over the Colorado, but the underground water supply. Ogalalla Aquifer.

105

sattv4u2 Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:09:13pm

re: #102 ggt

Buffalo can be dangerous
Not to the teams that play the Bills or the Sabres

They haven't had winning teams in awhile!!

106

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:09:15pm

'Evening, all just back from the annual Eufaula, Alabama ante-bellum mansion 'Pilgrimage' festival. One of our lizards, perhaps LM of Zion, has a link to the town. The decorative Lawn Maidens were maidenly, and the BBQ was worth the trip.

107

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:09:28pm

re: #104 wheatdogg

One of the little discussed environmental problems is the water supplies to naturally arid areas of the USA. It's not just the rivers feeding into reservoirs and the ongoing battle over the Colorado, but the underground water supply. Ogalalla Aquifer.

The Keystone pipeline is going to really fuck with the Ogalalla aquifer.

108

Lidane Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:09:30pm

re: #62 Buck

Yes, because the RWNJs are only joking. Really.

Why couldn't you play an April Fool's Day joke on the rest of us by posting something intelligent for a change?

109

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:10:08pm

re: #96 Interesting Times

Meanwhile, in Texas:

Last thing we'd ever want to do is ruin underground water supplies. They are of primary importance for the obvious reasons. Yet many of these same RWNJs easily blow off its importance. They think the possible dangers from fracking should be overlooked in favor of economics. But what economics would there be to enjoy with s ruined biosphere?

110

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:10:09pm

re: #101 ProGunLiberal

True, but the information there is so, so juicy. He has a proper blog though too, with the bland normal design. Here, same thing, just on his blog.

I don't know --isn't this an ad hominem type of attack?

What does it have to do with her writing?

Regardless of my or your opinion of it, this type of rebuttal is not worthy of LGF.

Good gossip tho.

111

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:10:33pm

re: #103 CuriousLurker

OBL & Co. really did a number on us. %#@$^!

ALL of us.

112

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:10:37pm

re: #100 Learned Mother of Zion

What do you know about Claire Parkinson? A denier, a scientist, what? She is a NASA employee so she has credentials.

Zedushka brought her book home "Coming Climate Crisis" from the library saying he's going to read about "climate science and stuff."

Ms Parkinson is very respected climate scientist, not a denier as far as I know. Haven't read that book, but I'll check it out.

113

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:10:59pm

re: #107 Learned Mother of Zion

But we need the oil! Water comes from the sky! Drill, baby, drill!

114

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:11:21pm

re: #106 Decatur Deb

'Evening, all just back from the annual Eufaula, Alabama ante-bellum mansion 'Pilgrimage' festival. One of our lizards, perhaps LM of Zion, has a link to the town. The decorative Lawn Maidens were maidenly, and the BBQ was worth the trip.

Wait, what? Is Eufaula near Huntsville?

115

Obdicut Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:11:41pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

She's a bit of a soft denier.

116

CuriousLurker Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:12:01pm

re: #111 ggt

ALL of us.

Yep, that's what I meant—America. *sigh*

I don't wanna waste precious minutes thinking about him. Time to get ready for Monday. Have a nice night, lizards.

117

palomino Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:12:10pm

OT: Does anyone remember if Romneycare was much of an issue in the 2008 GOP primaries? If the individual mandate is such an "egregious violation of our constitutional rights," why wasn't Mitt harshly criticized by the Right in 2008? And before that in 200? when he originally signed it into law.

If the mandate is so horribly coercive, then the fact that it was done at the state level in MA, rather than federally, shouldn't have prevented real American patriots from loudly opposing it.

118

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:12:12pm

re: #94 CuriousLurker

I seem to be Jekyl and Hide.

119

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:12:13pm

re: #104 wheatdogg

One of the little discussed environmental problems is the water supplies to naturally arid areas of the USA. It's not just the rivers feeding into reservoirs and the ongoing battle over the Colorado, but the underground water supply. Ogalalla Aquifer.

Sadly, groundwater is not well regulated or protected. Out of sight, out of mind, but we are using it faster than it is recharging. I trust we will work things out before it is too late.

120

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:12:16pm

re: #113 wheatdogg

But we need the oil! Water comes from the sky! Drill, baby, drill!

Living and growing-up in the Midwest, I am so used to an abundance of resources, that I can't imagine not having water.

121

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:13:50pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

Ms Parkinson is very respected climate scientist, not a denier as far as I know. Haven't read that book, but I'll check it out.

OK, I Googled her name and she is a NASA climate scientist.

122

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:13:51pm

re: #114 Learned Mother of Zion

Wait, what? Is Eufaula near Huntsville?

Eufaula == who knew?

123

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:14:06pm

re: #117 palomino

OT: Does anyone remember if Romneycare was much of an issue in the 2008 GOP primaries? If the individual mandate is such an "egregious violation of our constitutional rights," why wasn't Mitt harshly criticized by the Right in 2008? And before that in 200? when he originally signed it into law.

If the mandate is so horribly coercive, then the fact that it was done at the state level in MA, rather than federally, shouldn't have prevented real American patriots from loudly opposing it.

Perhaps it is related to the fact that IIRC the mandate concept came out of the Heritage Foundation in the 1990s

124

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:14:10pm

re: #17 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I think the problem is that we don't have a national distribution grid. Admittedly it is a big country and expensive to build, but part of the problem is political as I believe there are laws that regulate how power companies can operate and in what areas. There is also an expensive technical hurdle to synchronizing power in AC transmissions.

Power companies don't have the incentive to invest more than they need, and conservative government doesn't think it should be in the business of thinking nationally.

Also, I don't know where you are in the country, but the windfarms are out in the middle of nowhere, and by nowhere, I mean drive for an hour and not see a major town.

125

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:14:26pm

re: #117 palomino

As far as I remember Romney care was not an issue in 2008.

126

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:14:37pm

re: #114 Learned Mother of Zion

Wait, what? Is Eufaula near Huntsville?

South of there, near Auburn.

127

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:14:52pm

re: #110 ggt

It's important, at least to me, in showing how mentally twisted she was, and showing how extreme her views on Hyper-Individualism are.

Simply put, it degrades her power of being a source ideology and ideals. Put this fact out enough, and no one will listen to her defenders anymore.

128

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:15:08pm

re: #117 palomino

OT: Does anyone remember if Romneycare was much of an issue in the 2008 GOP primaries? If the individual mandate is such an "egregious violation of our constitutional rights," why wasn't Mitt harshly criticized by the Right in 2008? And before that in 200? when he originally signed it into law.

If the mandate is so horribly coercive, then the fact that it was done at the state level in MA, rather than federally, shouldn't have prevented real American patriots from loudly opposing it.

Because it was originally a "conservative" free market solution to the healthcare crisis. Once "liberal" Obama adopted it as a national model the wingnuts rejected their own idea and called it socialism. So it goes.

129

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:15:23pm

re: #122 ggt

Eufaula == who knew?

Kewl architecture! Including a Carnegie Library.

130

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:15:26pm

re: #107 Learned Mother of Zion

The Keystone pipeline is going to really fuck with the Ogalalla aquifer.

Not necessarily. The problem can be cut back to minimal through proper construction standards and monitoring. Pipeline tech has come a long way from the leaky pipes of old.

131

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:15:34pm

re: #99 ggt

I've heard that fresh water supplies are going to be a REALLY, REALLY big deal in the not so far-off future.

The future is now:

PBS takes a look behind those numbers and tells the story of how water shortages in two Texas communities are putting residents in crisis mode. Katharine Hayhoe, a climatologist at Texas Tech University, explains why human-caused global warming could make the crisis even worse:

“What climate change is doing is it’s increasing our temperatures, and higher temperatures mean faster evaporation,” she says, “So you need more water to provide the same amount of irrigation for crops if temperatures are higher. And that’s what we see happening here in Texas and in many places around the world.”

The impact of the drought in Texas is gut-wrenching. And with climatologists making the link between the catastrophe and a warming planet, the story is even more powerful. Watch it:

Youtube Video

132

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:16:09pm

re: #117 palomino

OT: Does anyone remember if Romneycare was much of an issue in the 2008 GOP primaries? If the individual mandate is such an "egregious violation of our constitutional rights," why wasn't Mitt harshly criticized by the Right in 2008? And before that in 200? when he originally signed it into law.

If the mandate is so horribly coercive, then the fact that it was done at the state level in MA, rather than federally, shouldn't have prevented real American patriots from loudly opposing it.

Two reasons. The first is because they like to tell themselves that government mandates are a-okay, so long as it's the state government who's issuing them. It's part of that whole "Leave it up to the states!" and "50 laboratories of democracy!" bit.

And second, they didn't really give a damn about Romneycare at the time because they were still trying to convince voters that they cared about health care reform and it was a popular system. But then Obama used it at the basis of his own system and now it's absolutely unacceptable.

133

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:16:23pm

re: #124 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Also, I don't know where you are in the country, but the windfarms are out in the middle of nowhere, and by nowhere, I mean drive for an hour and not see a major town.

There is one, somewhere in Illinois, that we drive by sometimes. It's freakin' surreal.

134

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:17:20pm

re: #124 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Also, I don't know where you are in the country, but the windfarms are out in the middle of nowhere, and by nowhere, I mean drive for an hour and not see a major town.

When you cross the border from Detroit to Canada, you drive about 30 minutes out of Windsor and you are smack in the middle of a big-ass wind orchard.

135

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:17:44pm

re: #129 ggt

Kewl architecture! Including a Carnegie Library.

There are only two in Alabama. Used to be one per neighborhood, and a great Carnegie museum, in Pittsburgh.

136

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:18:21pm

re: #133 ggt

Indiana, too, between Gary and Lafayette on I-65. Spooky at night.

137

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:18:28pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Not necessarily. The problem can be cut back to minimal through proper construction standards and monitoring. Pipeline tech has come a long way from the leaky pipes of old.

You mean like the existing Keystone pipeline, which had to be shut down last year for leaks and has 14 total since it went into service, one of which spewed out 21,000 gallons of oil before it was sealed?

138

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:20:22pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Not necessarily. The problem can be cut back to minimal through proper construction standards and monitoring. Pipeline tech has come a long way from the leaky pipes of old.

Wrong:

TransCanada Oil Leak Draws Attention In Nebraska

TransCanada Corp. says the Keystone oil pipeline that was closed Saturday in southeast North Dakota won’t operate again until fittings, like the one being blamed for a 500-barrel leak, are checked all along the pipeline route.

You seriously trust these Keystone ~~Cops~~ Pipeline pushers to take safety seriously in time to avert a major disaster? Fat lot of comfort a "shutdown" is once all that toxic filth has already spilled.

139

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:20:37pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Not necessarily. The problem can be cut back to minimal through proper construction standards and monitoring. Pipeline tech has come a long way from the leaky pipes of old.

The risk analysis TransCanada did on spills for Keystone only included the pipeline itself, and not the pump houses. That's where the first leak happened.
They're planning on sending a million barrels a day through the pipeline, so the risk is actually pretty high.

140

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:20:52pm

re: #94 CuriousLurker

Hahahahaha. I revisited that site earlier this weekend and was matching people up to their Flame Warrior counterparts.

Glad you liked it. Here's the the archetypical Townhall.com Flame Warrior:

Troglodyte

Troglodyte seems to have emerged from the mists of time untouched by human evolution. Devoid of a single progressive idea and lacking the slightest awareness of social and cultural advances, Troglodyte has developed an incoherent political philosophy that he characterizes as "conservative" or "libertarian", but which could be more accurately described as "bigoted narcissism". His aggressive posturing often frightens off weaker, more timid Warriors. In pitched battle, however, Troglodyte easily loses control and his attack quickly degenerates into a rant. Just for the fun of it, Weenie, Issues. Pinko and Evil Clown will sometimes deliberately goad him into a towering rage

Bolding mine.

141

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:21:42pm

Why the Keystone Pipeline Won't Ease Pain at the Pump

From the noted liberal mouthpiece, Business Week.

142

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:21:51pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Glad you liked it. Here's the the archetypical Townhall.com Flame Warrior:

Troglodyte

Bolding mine.

bigoted narcissism

I like that.

143

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:23:10pm

The whole concept of a pipeline of anything seems inherently problematic to me.

So much distance, something HAS to go wrong.

144

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:23:38pm

re: #2 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Had this discussion here a couple-few years back with the resident wingnuts. I pointed out that what they were proposing to do (TURN ON ALL THE THINGS!!11TY) for this goofy ass "Earth Hour" was the exact opposite of being "conservative".

But what can ya do? To these idiot reactionaries, being conservative means doing the exact opposite of what they think a liberal would do.

145

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:23:40pm

Why don't the Canadians build a refinery in Alberta so they don't have to transport that muck so far?

146

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:23:44pm

re: #115 Obdicut

She's a bit of a soft denier.

She doesn't trust the models.

147

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:23:51pm

re: #136 wheatdogg

Indiana, too, between Gary and Lafayette on I-65. Spooky at night.

I know that one --it's like War of the Worlds.

148

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:24:21pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Glad you liked it. Here's the the archetypical Townhall.com Flame Warrior:

Troglodyte

Bolding mine.

Troglodyte

Youtube Video

149

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:24:30pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

I've noticed many Libertarians my age tend to be self-obsessed dickweeds who care little for others. I don't think it is a coincidence.

150

wheat-dogg Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:25:05pm

re: #147 ggt

Exactly! I half-expect them to start torching the corn fields.

151

Lidane Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:25:33pm

re: #149 ProGunLiberal

I've noticed many Libertarians my age tend to be self-obsessed dickweeds who care little for others. I don't think it is a coincidence.

That's pretty much a theme among the glibertarian crowd. "Fuck you, I got mine" is pretty much the mantra.

152

erik_t Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:25:54pm

re: #143 ggt

The whole concept of a pipeline of anything seems inherently problematic to me.

So much distance, something HAS to go wrong.

That doesn't really follow, any more so than Inhofe's certainty that AGW must be fake because there's no way God would incur such costs on us.

Do you think that lots of discrete moving objects (tanker trucks or trains) are in some way superior? Do you think that the transoceanic communications links fail all the damned time, just because they're so long?

There are so many rational and reasonable arguments against pipelines. I wish we could keep to those.

153

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:25:59pm

re: #120 ggt

Living and growing-up in the Midwest, I am so used to an abundance of resources, that I can't imagine not having water.

Watch the video I posted in #131 - you'll hear directly from Texas residents having to cope with just that.

154

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:26:13pm

re: #145 jaunte

I think it would be expensive to do it that way-they'd have to import the hydrocarbons they need to make the tar sand usable and they'd still have to transport the refined product out.

155

Kronocide Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:26:21pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

Show me where they are.

156

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:26:52pm

re: #149 ProGunLiberal

I've noticed many Libertarians my age tend to be self-obsessed dickweeds who care little for others. I don't think it is a coincidence.

I've noticed that a lot of "libertarians" who've cropped up in the last year alone are doing so because they thing "Hey, fewer taxes/regulations means good things for me." A lot of potheads call themselves "libertarian" because they think ending federal regulations on marijuana means it'll become legal.

157

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:27:00pm

re: #152 erik_t

That doesn't really follow, any more so than Inhofe's certainty that AGW must be fake because there's no way God would incur such costs on us.

Do you think that lots of discrete moving objects (tanker trucks or trains) are in some way superior? Do you think that the transoceanic communications links fail all the damned time, just because they're so long?

There are so many rational and reasonable arguments against pipelines. I wish we could keep to those.

No, I'm not agin' em. I don't have any answer. Was just making an observation.

158

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:27:02pm

re: #143 ggt

The whole concept of a pipeline of anything seems inherently problematic to me.

So much distance, something HAS to go wrong.

Once you start destroying underground water aquifers with toxic chemical then you'd be looking at a massive infrastructure of desalination plants and massive water pipelines. Of course. These same people also think it's swell to pollute the oceans too and that the "free market" will regulate itself.

159

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:27:13pm

re: #150 wheatdogg

Or this

160

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:27:49pm

re: #139 jaunte

The risk analysis TransCanada did on spills for Keystone only included the pipeline itself, and not the pump houses.That's where the first leak happened.
They're planning on sending a million barrels a day through the pipeline, so the risk is actually pretty high.

It should be possible to properly build those to prevent leaks from exiting the pump house and getting into the ground, shouldn't it?

161

Kronocide Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:28:00pm

re: #62 Buck

False equivalence fail. Really pathetic dude.

If conservatism is so important to save you're doing a crappy job of it.

162

erik_t Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:28:18pm

re: #157 ggt

No, I'm not agin' em. I don't have any answer. Was just making an observation.

No, an observation would be 'pipelines are long'. 'Pipelines are long, therefore something something problem' is not an observation.

163

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:28:27pm

re: #158 Gus

Once you start destroying underground water aquifers with toxic chemical

That's what concerns me, that we're risking the irreplaceable for temporary convenience.

164

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:29:18pm

re: #145 jaunte

Why don't the Canadians build a refinery in Alberta so they don't have to transport that muck so far?

Because it would cost much more up front to build it. Refineries are not cheap to build.

165

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:29:23pm

re: #159 ProGunLiberal

Or this

too funny!

166

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:29:25pm

re: #163 jaunte

That's what concerns me, that we're risking the irreplaceable for temporary convenience.

You've just summed up in the modern GOP's "philosophy" in one sentence.

167

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:29:36pm

re: #145 jaunte

Refineries are extremely capital intensive and there is a glut of refining capacity in the USA. That is the reason that they don't build new ones anymore.

168

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:30:04pm

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

It should be possible to properly build those to prevent leaks from exiting the pump house and getting into the ground, shouldn't it?

But if you're a for-profit corporation like BP trying to cut costs (Deepwater Event Horizon, or whatever that disaster was called)

169

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:30:14pm

re: #162 erik_t

No, an observation would be 'pipelines are long'. 'Pipelines are long, therefore something something problem' is not an observation.

I'll remember that for the next test, professor.

;)

170

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:30:32pm

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

In theory; there's always a cost/benefit calculation involved, but it doesn't give enough weight (in my opinion) to the cost, duration and impact of cleanup when a spill happens, especially of the heavy bitumen.

171

erik_t Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:30:40pm

re: #167 Mich-again

Refineries are extremely capital intensive and there is a glut of refining capacity in the USA. That is the reason that they don't build new ones anymore.

I suspect, but cannot justify, that many existing plants have also been grandfathered in to new regulations that would make those particular plants unbuildable in their current form.

172

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:30:43pm

The problem isn't so much the pipeline itself but the oil sands operation upstream

173

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:31:13pm

re: #159 ProGunLiberal

Here's something you might be interested in:

In case you missed it, the First Lady presented @TaylorSwift13 with the Big Help Award last night: OFA.BO/FfPphf #KCA
— Michelle Obama (@MichelleObama) April 1, 2012

Wingnuts to start anti-Swift hate campaign in 3...2...1...

174

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:31:40pm

And once those oil sands are gone then what? Start scraping off some other corner of the Earth?

175

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:32:14pm

re: #173 Interesting Times

I swear, if they go in that direction, I will go ballistic.

176

jamesfirecat Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:32:37pm

re: #62 Buck

We have rightly been reminded how unfair it is to equate the hundreds of millions of decent Muslims with radicals who behead, car bomb and assassinate in the name of Islam. Would that others could make a similar distinction between the hundreds of millions of decent Conservatives and the ones that have a warped sense of humour on April Fools Day.

Sure.

I will do it.

There is a difference between those reasonable conservatives like Dark Falcon who I simply disagree with, and those ones like Rick Santorum who have an entirely different idea what America is all about.

Okay I did it.

Any other requests?

177

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:33:02pm

I never want to hear or see the phrase, "Pain at the pump", again. I've suffered from it for 38 years, ever since the oil embargo, and I don't want to hear it anymore. Call it "Agony at the gas station", or what you will, but no more, "pain at the pump".

178

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:33:31pm

Oil Sands - Extraction process

Conventional crude oil is normally extracted from the ground by drilling oil wells into a petroleum reservoir, allowing oil to flow into them under natural reservoir pressures, although artificial lift and techniques such as water flooding and gas injection are usually required to maintain production as reservoir pressure drops toward the end of a field's life. Because bitumen flow very slowly, if at all, toward producing wells under normal reservoir conditions, the sands must be extracted by strip mining or the oil made to flow into wells by in-situ techniques, which reduce the viscosity by injecting steam, solvents, and/or hot air into the sands. These processes can use more water and require larger amounts of energy than conventional oil extraction, although many conventional oil fields also require large amounts of water and energy to achieve good rates of production.

It is estimated that approximately 90% of the Alberta oil sands are too far below the surface to use open-pit mining. Several in-situ techniques have been developed.

179

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:34:20pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Not necessarily. The problem can be cut back to minimal through proper construction standards and monitoring. Pipeline tech has come a long way from the leaky pipes of old.

TransCanada and Enbridge have offices and pipe terminals a stone throw away from my house. The Keystone will go through my city about 75m north of my house. Both TransCanada and their buddy Enbridge have had problems with leaks in the US and Canada.

Even with the high standards of Canadian regulation, shit happens. I'm not comfortable with it being so close.

180

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:34:28pm

re: #178 Gus

Oil Sands - Extraction process

Another process:

Vapor Extraction Process (VAPEX)

VAPEX is similar to SAGD but instead of steam, hydrocarbon solvents are injected into the upper well to dilute the bitumen and allow it to flow into the lower well. It has the advantage of much better energy efficiency over steam injection, and it does some partial upgrading of bitumen to oil right in the formation. It is very new, but the process has attracted much attention from oil companies, who are beginning to experiment with it.

The above three methods are not mutually exclusive. It is becoming common for wells to be put through one CSS injection-soak-production cycle to condition the formation prior to going to SAGD production, and companies are experimenting with combining VAPEX with SAGD to improve recovery rates and lower energy costs.

181

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:35:10pm

Environmental issues

Oil sands extraction is generally held to be more environmentally damaging than conventional crude oil.[45] It can affect the land when the bitumen is initially mined, water by its requirement of large quantities of water during separation of the oil and sand and the air due to the release of carbon dioxide and other emissions.[46] Heavy metals such as vanadium, nickel, lead, cobalt, mercury, chromium, cadmium, arsenic, selenium, copper, manganese, iron and zinc are naturally present in oil sands and may be concentrated by the extraction process.[47] The environmental impact caused by oil sand extraction is frequently criticized by environmental groups such as Greenpeace, Climate Reality Project, 350.org, MoveOn, League of Conservation Voters, Patagonia, Sierra Club, and Energy Action Coalition.[48][49] The European Union has indicated that it may vote to label oil sands oil as "highly polluting". Although oil sands exports to Europe are minimal, the issue has caused friction between the EU and Canada.

182

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:35:57pm

re: #174 Gus

And once those oil sands are gone then what? Start scraping off some other corner of the Earth?

GOP spokesperson Veruca Salt said it best, I Want it NOW!

183

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:37:01pm

re: #173 Interesting Times

Here's something you might be interested in:

Wingnuts to start anti-Swift hate campaign in 3...2...1...

South Park was already there last week.

184

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:37:22pm

Image: alberta-tar-oil-sands-satellite-pictures-aerial_46162_600x450.jpg

Lovely.

185

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:37:31pm

re: #176 jamesfirecat

Sure.

I will do it.

There is a difference between those reasonable conservatives like Dark Falcon who I simply disagree with, and those ones like Rick Santorum who have an entirely different idea what America is all about.

Okay I did it.

Any other requests?

I listened to part of an interview with Rachel Maddow on NPR (in the car) last week. One observation she had I thought was astute. She said that when the two sides debated in the past, they had different opinions, but agreed on the facts. Now, each is operating on a different set of what they consider the facts.

I'm seeing that with people who still identify themselves as Conservatives, like DF and the ones who are in control of the Party currently. Both are using the same label, but operate from two different set of facts.

186

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:37:34pm

re: #145 jaunte

Why don't the Canadians build a refinery in Alberta so they don't have to transport that muck so far?

Good fucking question.

We already have a large upgrading facility here in Sask (Regina), it wouldn't take all that much to expand it, and the land is not an issue.

187

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:37:54pm

re: #170 jaunte

In theory; there's always a cost/benefit calculation involved, but it doesn't give enough weight (in my opinion) to the cost, duration and impact of cleanup when a spill happens, especially of the heavy bitumen.

So how would you augment the standards?

188

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:38:40pm

My pet peeve: These are not "oil sands". They are tar sands. The word oil didn't show up until the PR folks got ahold of it.

189

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:39:15pm

re: #177 EdDantes

I never want to hear or see the phrase, "Pain at the pump", again. I've suffered from it for 38 years, ever since the oil embargo, and I don't want to hear it anymore. Call it "Agony at the gas station", or what you will, but no more, "pain at the pump".

"Nastiness at the nozzle: because shoving money into the G-string of Big Oil through taxpayer subsidies just isn't enough."

190

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:39:21pm

re: #184 Gus

Moonscape.

191

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:39:40pm

re: #163 jaunte

That's what concerns me, that we're risking the irreplaceable for temporary convenience.

crooks gotta get paid

192

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:39:43pm

re: #190 calochortus

Moonscape.

Can we send Newt Gingrich there?

193

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:39:51pm

re: #184 Gus

Image: alberta-tar-oil-sands-satellite-pictures-aerial_46162_600x450.jpg

Lovely.

*squints* Isn't that a scene from Avatar?

194

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:40:09pm

re: #186 Bee#

Good fucking question.

We already have a large upgrading facility here in Sask (Regina), it wouldn't take all that much to expand it, and the land is not an issue.

But the Canadians are making Ontario all green friendly, eh! They even took down all the rest stops along the 401, even removing the "industrial-waste contaminated ground" they were built on, and replacing them with environmentally-friendly "OnRoute" stations. The "OnRoute" stations even sell vegetarian, kosher and halal snacks, fruits and veggies, in addition to the Tim Hortons!

195

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:40:11pm

Turning off lights and sitting in the dark for an hour probably isn’t going to accomplish much to help the environment.

It's not about sitting in the dark; it's about city people having a chance to see a proper night sky once a year.

196

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:40:39pm

The sound quality of my Ipod is so amazing I can't hear the cries of anguish from the people who built it. Amazing.

197

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:41:13pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

So how would you augment the standards?

I don't know enough about building pipelines to say.

198

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:41:42pm

re: #195 sagehen

It's not about sitting in the dark; it's about city people having a chance to see a proper night sky once a year.

No kidding, it's amazing what we don't see at night. If the cloud cover is low, it never get's totally dark because the ambient light is reflected from the clouds.

199

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:42:05pm

re: #189 Interesting Times

"Nastiness at the nozzle: because shoving money into the G-string of Big Oil through taxpayer subsidies just isn't enough."

Remember this?

Youtube Video

200

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:42:09pm

re: #154 calochortus

I think it would be expensive to do it that way-they'd have to import the hydrocarbons they need to make the tar sand usable and they'd still have to transport the refined product out.

Import what hydrocarbons?

201

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:42:37pm

re: #193 Targetpractice

*squints* Isn't that a scene from Avatar?

//

We will stop at nothing!

That's a Bagger 288 somewhere in Germany. Not used for tar sands but it could be. Ever see one of those in action? Kind of amazing and scary at the same time.

202

EdDantes Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:43:14pm

re: #189 Interesting Times

I'll sign off on that.

203

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:43:19pm

re: #200 Bee#

They have to use lighter fraction hydrocarbons to get the heavy bitumen to slip through the pipe. That stuff comes in part from overseas.

204

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:43:19pm

re: #201 Gus

We will stop at nothing!

That's a Bagger 288 somewhere in Germany. Not used for tar sands but it could be. Ever see one of those in action? Kind of amazing and scary at the same time.

Now, THAT looks like something from War of the Worlds. Or Terminator or some dystopian future sci-fi movie.

205

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:43:41pm

re: #204 ggt

Now, THAT looks like something from War of the Worlds. Or Terminator or some dystopian future sci-fi movie.

Image: Bagger-garzweiler.jpg

206

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:44:29pm

re: #205 Gus

Image: Bagger-garzweiler.jpg

That thing could house a whole town. Places to hang your laundry to dry, hammocks, everything.

207

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:45:34pm

re: #206 ggt

That thing could house a whole town. Places to hang your laundry to dry, hammocks, everything.

Here's the Wiki page.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

208

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:46:07pm

re: #207 Gus

Here's the Wiki page.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I think you want one.

209

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:46:12pm

re: #201 Gus

We will stop at nothing!

That's a Bagger 288 somewhere in Germany. Not used for tar sands but it could be. Ever see one of those in action? Kind of amazing and scary at the same time.

Youtube Video

210

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:46:50pm

re: #190 calochortus

Moonscape.

The Inco nickel mines near Sudbury Ontario would give that place a run for the money for resembling a moonscape.

211

Kragar Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:09pm

re: #206 ggt

That thing could house a whole town. Places to hang your laundry to dry, hammocks, everything.

Well, I know where I'll be living after the Apocalypse. Pff, who needs Rivet City?

212

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:13pm

re: #183 Learned Mother of Zion

South Park has its own issues. Somebody on Something Awful pointed it out this is in regards to Transexuals:

Post 1 of interest:

South Park's infamous episode dealing horribly with trans folk featured Kyle's dad wanting to be a dolphin.

So there you go. Mystery solved. Reddit is a bunch of shitlords that get their opinions from South Park.

Post2

So you can get a taste of how stupid the talking point of this episode was if you haven't seen it, Kyle's dad gets surgery to become a dolphin because he always liked them and ends up a horrific monstrosity. He then goes on to flip the gently caress out at a basketball game because they don't have special seats to accommodate his new weird dolphin body and cries discrimination.

Transpeople wanting to be treated as their target gender and referred to as such is the same as wanting everyone to pay to create SPECIAL things for you because of your choices. This is the flawless argument people saw played out on TV and decided to parrot.

Post 3

Is it a surprise that the South Park creators also identify as libertarian? To the point where they said they hated liberals more than conservatives?

The Thread and Page (about Reddit and its creepiness)

In summary, South Park is just used by its creators to show off "awesome" they are and how they are so much better and smarter than the rest of us. They are just mean-spirited smug assholes.

213

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:15pm

re: #184 Gus

Image: alberta-tar-oil-sands-satellite-pictures-aerial_46162_600x450.jpg

Lovely.

Nice isn't it.

They'll be starting that here in Sask pretty quick.

214

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:18pm

Earth first!

_{_{We can strip mine the other planets later.}}

215

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:27pm

Fun Keystone facts:

The refineries that are linked to the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline as committed shippers will receive between $1 billion and $1.8 billion in tax breaks. They are paid specifically for investing in equipment to process the heavy sour oil the pipeline promises to deliver.

The largest of these refineries, Motiva, is half owned by Saudi Refining Inc., and will receive between $680 million and $1.1 billion in U.S. taxpayer support.[Link: priceofoil.org...]

216

moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:33pm

But I’ll never understand what’s supposed to be “conservative” about deliberately wasting energy

This is what modern conservatism is. A virulent reaction to anything remotely associated with liberalism. Even if it runs up your own damn electric bill.

217

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:43pm

re: #200 Bee#

Since the tar sands produce bitumen, in order to get gasoline I believe it needs to be mixed with much lighter hydrocarbons-generally imported from the middle east.

218

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:47:46pm

re: #211 Kragar

Well, I know where I'll be living after the Apocalypse. Pff, who needs Rivet City?

Hey man, who wouldn't want to live in a rusting aircraft carrier?

219

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:48:14pm

Can someone explain why, in the "Hunger Games" futuristic scenario, they still have people going into coal mines?

220

erik_t Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:48:27pm

re: #217 calochortus

Since the tar sands produce bitumen, in order to get gasoline I believe it needs to be mixed with much lighter hydrocarbons-generally imported from the middle east.

I think the idea is to crack the longer hydrocarbon chains, but I could be wrong.

221

Shvaughn Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:48:31pm

re: #212 ProGunLiberal

South Park has its own issues. Somebody on Something Awful pointed it out this is in regards to Transexuals:

Post 1 of interest:

Post2

Post 3

The Thread and Page (about Reddit and its creepiness)

In summary, South Park is just used by its creators to show off "awesome" they are and how they are so much better and smarter than the rest of us. They are just mean-spirited smug assholes.

Yeah, a lot of shows (and a lot of conservatives) like to crap all over trans people.

222

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:48:32pm

re: #178 Gus

Well, frack!

223

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:48:50pm

re: #195 sagehen

It's not about sitting in the dark; it's about city people having a chance to see a proper night sky once a year.

Ain't gonna happen unless the whole city shuts down. And the whole city ain't shutting down.

224

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:49:03pm

re: #194 Learned Mother of Zion

But the Canadians are making Ontario all green friendly, eh! They even took down all the rest stops along the 401, even removing the "industrial-waste contaminated ground" they were built on, and replacing them with environmentally-friendly "OnRoute" stations. The "OnRoute" stations even sell vegetarian, kosher and halal snacks, fruits and veggies, in addition to the Tim Hortons!

Canada's a big ass country.

225

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:49:46pm

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

Ah. A Krupp machine. Where have I heard that name before?

Image: krupp-k5-anzio-annie.jpg

226

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:49:46pm

re: #212 ProGunLiberal

South Park has its own issues. Somebody on Something Awful pointed it out this is in regards to Transexuals:

Post 1 of interest:

Post2

Post 3

The Thread and Page (about Reddit and its creepiness)

In summary, South Park is just used by its creators to show off "awesome" they are and how they are so much better and smarter than the rest of us. They are just mean-spirited smug assholes.

Yeah, because Somethingawful is soooo much more intellectual and thought provoking than South Park!

227

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:49:56pm

re: #221 Shvaughn

South Park just treats anyone the creators think is stupid or just disagree with in really nasty ways.

I have better things to do than to be preached to by a group of assholes the likes of which I have been fortunate to never meet.

228

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:50:09pm

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

There it is. What when they become 2 or 3 times larger? We'll continue to scrape off the top of the world to attain fuel to burn into the atmosphere.

229

Targetpractice Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:50:22pm

re: #215 jaunte

Fun Keystone facts:

Wasn't it just a few years back that the whole country had a collective screaming fit over Dubai controlling a handful of US ports?

230

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:50:48pm

re: #210 Mich-again

The Inco nickel mines near Sudbury Ontario would give that place a run for the money for resembling a moonscape.

For the most part those have been recovered.

231

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:50:53pm

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

Can someone explain why, in the "Hunger Games" futuristic scenario, they still have people going into coal mines?

Didn't read it. A friend really liked it, but said it was a downer. I haven't been in the mood for downers.

Do I have to read it? Will I feel totally left out of the world of Literary Enlightenment if I don't.

232

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:51:04pm

re: #220 erik_t

I think the idea is to crack the longer hydrocarbon chains, but I could be wrong.

Sounds right.

233

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:51:24pm

re: #226 Learned Mother of Zion

Didn't say that. South Park is made by pricks. And the humor doesn't even have much thought to it.

I have enough issues. I don't need to watch such a mean spirited show.

234

Obdicut Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:51:54pm

re: #231 ggt

I think you'd really enjoy the book Anathem.

235

Mich-again Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:52:18pm

re: #230 Bee#

For the most part those have been recovered.

Did they make the sulfur belching stack taller? The solution is dilution..

236

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:52:44pm

re: #230 Bee#

For the most part those have been recovered.

Try to rebuild a mountain in W. Virginia:

Image: mountaintopremoval475.jpg

237

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:52:52pm

re: #213 Bee#

Nice isn't it.

They'll be starting that here in Sask pretty quick.

You know what comes with that too. Hydrocarbons which you can smell for miles and miles. The region begins to smell like North Jersey. Constant smog which looks like fog. And that's just on the surface. Humans.

238

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:52:59pm

re: #234 Obdicut

I think you'd really enjoy the book Anathem.

OOH, yeah. I did read that and I really did like it.

I listened to it. I may have to actually read it as well someday. There is alot going on--I know I missed a bit.

239

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53:08pm

re: #231 ggt

Didn't read it. A friend really liked it, but said it was a downer. I haven't been in the mood for downers.

:0

Do I have to read it? Will I feel totally left out of the world of Literary Enlightenment if I don't.

Have you observed that all the great "literary achievements" of the past 10 years or so have been "young adult" novels?

240

Romantic Heretic Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53:53pm

re: #25 Kragar

Atlas Shrugged, where the biggest fantasy is that a bunch of millionaires would remove themselves from society so they clean their own toilets and clean up after cooking their own dinners.

Reminds me of this comic

241

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53:58pm

re: #239 Learned Mother of Zion

Have you observed that all the great "literary achievements" of the past 10 years or so have been "young adult" novels?

Yeah --Carlos Ruiz Zafon.

ANYTHING HE HAS WRITTEN.

Althought, Shadow of the Wind is my favorite.

242

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:54:03pm

re: #233 ProGunLiberal

Didn't say that. South Park is made by pricks. And the humor doesn't even have much thought to it.

I have enough issues. I don't need to watch such a mean spirited show.

Nobody is duct taping you to a chair and grabbing your eyelids open "Clockwork Orange" style to force you to watch "South Park."

243

Obdicut Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:54:09pm

re: #238 ggt

You might also like the works of Connie Willis. To Say Nothing of the Dog.

244

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:55:26pm

re: #243 Obdicut

You might also like the works of Connie Willis. To Say Nothing of the Dog.

I think I've read nearly everything she has written that is available on Audio. I have a couple of others in the book binge stack.

I also read the original 3 Men in a Boat because of her.

The last book Blackout/All Clear is AMAZING.

245

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:55:26pm

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

And with that, my desire to consume hallucinogenic substances has again been quelled for another decade or two.

246

Romantic Heretic Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:55:40pm

re: #30 Lidane

Seriously.

Objectivism is ridiculous on its face. A bunch of millionaires and billionaires aren't going to secede from society in order to grow and cook their own food, make their own clothing, and clean up after themselves. Ayn Rand lived in a fantasy world.

Ayn Rand lived in a Marxist world. She just inverted the Marxist theology and called it 'Objectivism.'

So I guess you could say she lived in a fantasy world.

247

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:55:53pm

re: #237 Gus

You know what comes with that too. Hydrocarbons which you can smell for miles and miles. The region begins to smell like North Jersey. Constant smog which looks like fog. And that's just on the surface. Humans.

I know how that smells. The Co-op upgrader is within smelling distance.

248

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:56:06pm

re: #245 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

And with that, my desire to consume hallucinogenic substances has again been quelled for another decade or two.

Might actually have helped with the video.

249

calochortus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:56:07pm

re: #230 Bee#

For the most part those have been recovered.

That's good to hear. My hubby and I drove along the edge of the Sudbury area on our honeymoon 35 years ago and it was pretty ugly then. Not the most romantic part of the trip.

250

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:57:01pm

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

Can someone explain why, in the "Hunger Games" futuristic scenario, they still have people going into coal mines?

Steel production. Steel-making requires partially-burned coal called 'coke' to properly heat the steel and keep it heated.

251

Obdicut Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:57:37pm

re: #244 ggt

Well, the good news is I'm great at guessing what you'd like. Bad news is it makes it hard to come up with stuff. Oh, you might like Sewer, Gas, Electric.

252

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:57:40pm

re: #243 Obdicut

You might also like the works of Connie Willis. To Say Nothing of the Dog.

I was going thru my favorites the other day, where I tuck Lizard Book Recommendations. I have read a couple that you previously recommended. Now, of course, I can't remember what they are.

Suffice it to say, I do take Lizard Recommendations seriously. AND appreciate them immensely.

253

Obdicut Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:58:12pm

re: #252 ggt

Oh, The Master and Margarita is my constant recommendation, if you haven't read that first.

254

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:58:27pm

re: #251 Obdicut

Well, the good news is I'm great at guessing what you'd like. Bad news is it makes it hard to come up with stuff. Oh, you might like Sewer, Gas, Electric.

In the Amazon wish list --thru LGF link.

255

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:58:42pm

Oh for Pete's sake. Get a load of this ridiculous crap tonight at Breitbart.com: Obama's Alinsky Strategy: Who's Next?

They're just parodies of themselves now.

256

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:59:01pm

re: #249 calochortus

That's good to hear. My hubby and I drove along the edge of the Sudbury area on our honeymoon 35 years ago and it was pretty ugly then. Not the most romantic part of the trip.

You can now drive along the TransCanada through Sudbury without seeing the moonscape. Some of it is still there, but it's not as bad as it once was.

257

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:59:11pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Also, didn't the world have some catastrophe?

re: #242 Learned Mother of Zion

True. I just have a moral objection to the show. It is helping foster the creation of uncaring assholes, as well as promoting the argumentum ad temperantiam fallacy, otherwise known as the idea that the solution to anything is in the middle.

Often times, it isn't.

258

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:00:44pm

re: #253 Obdicut

Oh, The Master and Margarita is my constant recommendation, if you haven't read that first.

In my audible queue for my next resupply of credits.

I have to get by with free podcasts, librovox and podiobooks until then. :(

Going to take Connie Willis Passagewith on the airplane during family summer trip.

259

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:00:59pm

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

Can someone explain why, in the "Hunger Games" futuristic scenario, they still have people going into coal mines?

Because after the failed revolt 74 years ago, rebuilding the high-tech infrastructure was reserved for the winning district. Everybody else had to be kept barely on the edge of survival so they'd be unable to communicate/organize.

260

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:01:16pm

re: #248 ggt

Might actually have helped with the video.

:0

The last time I dropped acid, it was an epic shitload. What one might call an heroic dose.

Which is also why it was the last time I dropped acid.

261

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:01:44pm

re: #255 Charles Johnson

Oh for Pete's sake. Get a load of this ridiculous crap tonight at Breitbart.com: Obama's Alinsky Strategy: Who's Next?

They're just parodies of themselves now.

They're nuts. Breitbart has turned into this paranoid and drippingly conspiratorial website. Right, we're all waiting for "step 5" when they send us off to the FEMA camps. Who is that nut P.J. Salvatore? Does he have face to go with the lunacy?

262

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:02:07pm

re: #257 ProGunLiberal

re: #242 Learned Mother of Zion

True. I just have a moral objection to the show. It is helping foster the creation of uncaring assholes.

Dude, it's just a TV show. Does "Criminal Minds" help foster the creation of serial killers?

263

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:02:26pm

re: #257 ProGunLiberal

Also, didn't the world have some catastrophe?

re: #242 Learned Mother of Zion

True. I just have a moral objection to the show. It is helping foster the creation of uncaring assholes.

Have you read the books?

264

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:02:38pm

re: #255 Charles Johnson

Oh for Pete's sake. Get a load of this ridiculous crap tonight at Breitbart.com: Obama's Alinsky Strategy: Who's Next?

They're just parodies of themselves now.

Sometimes, I just want to ask these whackos to look around. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO with all these people if we don't incorporate more socialistic principles into our world?

HELLO, reality?

Then again, first we have to have a serious discussion about the difference between economic systems and political systems . . .

265

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:02:50pm

re: #255 Charles Johnson

Oh for Pete's sake. Get a load of this ridiculous crap tonight at Breitbart.com: Obama's Alinsky Strategy: Who's Next?

They're just parodies of themselves now.

Oh, please! Obama didn't even say anything about this case till the DoJ got involved, and he hasn't tried to use it for political advantage either. And it's not just him that condemned Zimmerman's actions: Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum did so as well. So is every major presidential candidate an Alinskyite, or is Breitbart.com spewing bullshit? To ask the question is to answer it.

266

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:02:53pm

re: #263 Bee#

Have you read the books?

There are "South Park" books?

267

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:03:13pm

re: #260 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The last time I dropped acid, it was an epic shitload. What one might call an heroic dose.

Which is also why it was the last time I dropped acid.

BTDT.

1974

268

Charles Johnson Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:03:36pm

re: #261 Gus

They're nuts. Breitbart has turned into this paranoid and drippingly conspiratorial website. Right, we're all waiting for "step 5" when they send us off to the FEMA camps. Who is that nut P.J. Salvatore? Does he have face to go with the lunacy?

"P.J. Salvatore" is a pseudonym for whichever crazy Breitbart blogger wants to remain anonymous, in order to spew paranoid bullshit without being held accountable.

269

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:03:49pm

re: #262 Learned Mother of Zion

No. But Criminal Minds has no political agenda. Most TV Shows don't.

And my dealings with South Park Fans (those in person) have been that they are obnoxious, holier than thou, libertarians. Just like the creators of South Park.

270

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:05:08pm

re: #266 Learned Mother of Zion

There are "South Park" books?

I misread the subthread. I thought it was about The Hunger Games.

So! I'm a doofus!
;P

271

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:05:31pm

re: #263 Bee#

I was responding to 2 different things.

I have not read Hunger Games. I thought I heard somewhere that there was some apocalyptic event way before the story starts.

And they seem like good books.

272

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:05:41pm

re: #266 Learned Mother of Zion

There are "South Park" books?

"The Satyricon" comes to mind.

Wait, you mean that wasn't written by Matt and Trey?
/

273

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:05:45pm

re: #270 Bee#

I misread the subthread. I thought it was about The Hunger Games.

So! I'm a doofus!
;P

I'm sure "South Park" will do a "Hunger Games" episode. :)

274

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:05:54pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

"P.J. Salvatore" is a pseudonym for whichever crazy Breitbart blogger wants to remain anonymous, in order to spew paranoid bullshit without being held accountable.

Oh I see. So it could be Joel Pollak or Dana Loesch for all we know. Do these morons understand that Alinksy and "Rules for Radicals" isn't about overthrowing the US government or "taking over Murica!"

275

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:05:58pm

A couple of years ago (2009-2010) I was fortunate to find a whole string of really, really good novels. I was literally reeling from them.

I've been suffering ever since.

Thomas Merton is definitely my lowest point yet.

Excellent writer, good history, but the man seriously needed a psychiatrist.

276

Dark_Falcon Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:06:48pm

re: #259 sagehen

Because after the failed revolt 74 years ago, rebuilding the high-tech infrastructure was reserved for the winning district. Everybody else had to be kept barely on the edge of survival so they'd be unable to communicate/organize.

That does seem to be the reality for most districts, the exceptions being 1, 2 (the Capital's great ally during the Dark Years War and the only district to remain wholly loyal to the Capital in Mockingjay), and 4. By no coincidence, those are the three districts that field the trained "Career Tributes" who win the Hunger Games most of the time.

277

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:06:51pm

re: #267 Bee#

BTDT.

1974

I have no idea what BTDT is, but I bet it was more powerful than the stuff I took.

278

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:06:57pm

re: #271 ProGunLiberal

I was responding to 2 different things.

I have not read Hunger Games. I thought I heard somewhere that there was some apocalyptic event way before the story starts.

And they seem like good books.

Tis OK. I don't have to spin around to be a dizzy fuck.

279

jaunte Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:07:24pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

"Hope and Change has been replaced with Us vs. Them. This about pitting Americans against Americans."

Someone must be getting worried about that Gallup poll today:
[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

280

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:07:28pm

I read a new mystery novel every week. Right now I'm reading Heartstone by C.J. Sansom.

281

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:08:03pm

re: #278 Bee#

I'll read them after I'm done with college. I don't have the time to read them right now.

282

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:08:09pm

re: #244 ggt

I think I've read nearly everything she has written that is available on Audio. I have a couple of others in the book binge stack.

I also read the original 3 Men in a Boat because of her.

The last book Blackout/All Clear is AMAZING.

I've read everything she ever published and loved most of it; especially Doomsday Book. I only just started Blackout, so no spoilers please.

(but Passages... not so much. The first 1/2 was great, the second half not so much, and the last 50-100 pages totally dragged).

283

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:08:22pm

One of the comments:

So what do they believe is going to happen if they get the race war they appear to be inciting? Let's see, several million trained hunters that have finally been pushed to the limit and feel that they are now protecting their families and property vs. a mob of new black panther types who will be outnumbered at least 5-1 with shooting skills acquired from watching NWA rap videos. Doesn't look good for Easy-E and Ice Cube.

Place is as bad a Prisonplanet now.

284

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:08:32pm

Turn It Off

Youtube Video

285

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:09:02pm

Another one:

The only hope we have is that most in our military will refuse to follow Obama's orders and at least some in the various police and sheriff departments.

Top down is what they are looking for, but it doesn't necessary follow that they'll be able to do it.

286

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:09:10pm

re: #280 Learned Mother of Zion

I read a new mystery novel every week. Right now I'm reading Heartstone by C.J. Sansom.

Mysteries are hard. Is it good? I mean, really good?

Are the characters believable --or does the author at least create an atmosphere in which one can suspend disbelief?

I can't stand it when I can figure it out 1/2 thru. I feel like I've wasted my time.

My fav modern mystery author is Ruth Rendell. Although her formula has gotten to wear on me.

287

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:09:13pm

re: #274 Gus

Oh I see. So it could be Joel Pollak or Dana Loesch for all we know. Do these morons understand that Alinksy and "Rules for Radicals" isn't about overthrowing the US government or "taking over Murica!"

What do you think?
They probably know nothing about Alinsky but are operating with surface understanding and talking points.

288

Interesting Times Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:09:18pm

re: #255 Charles Johnson

Oh for Pete's sake. Get a load of this ridiculous crap tonight at Breitbart.com: Obama's Alinsky Strategy: Who's Next?

They're just parodies of themselves now.

Speaking of which, check out this exchange between David Axelrod and random wingnut:

@PhilipRucker "Distortions," like what? That Mitt would de-fund Planned Parenthood?Didn't he just say that again YESTERDAY?
— David Axelrod (@davidaxelrod) April 2, 2012

@davidaxelrod @PhilipRucker Axelrod ur a crook & a child.. Grow-up u sissy!
— Jack Witzgall (@JackWitty) April 2, 2012

Axelrod: points out fact

Wingnut: "durr hurr, you're a poopyhead!"

289

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:09:29pm

re: #269 ProGunLiberal

No. But Criminal Minds has no political agenda. Most TV Shows don't.

And my dealings with South Park Fans (those in person) have been that they are obnoxious, holier than thou, libertarians. Just like the creators of South Park.

Bleh. If you pay attention, they have the ability to mock both sides of an issue at once, while giving those who lean one way or another that they are only mocking the other side.

I think you're reading far too much into what their politics may or may not be.

290

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:09:51pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Steel production. Steel-making requires partially-burned coal called 'coke' to properly heat the steel and keep it heated.

not a valid explanation... the tech exists for it to be drone-mined or otherwise automated. Her question isn't why coal is needed, but why *people* have to go in to get it.

291

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:10:14pm

re: #283 Gus

One of the comments:

Place is as bad a Prisonplanet now.

Yeah, but that upcoming war is probably going to be a reality.

I'm hearing more and mor about it -- and I am beginning to believe.

292

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:11:01pm

re: #277 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I have no idea what BTDT is, but I bet it was more powerful than the stuff I took.

Smart ass!

Been There Done That.
Double Double Barrel for a lark.
Stoned 36 hours, paranoid another 24.

293

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:11:22pm

re: #282 sagehen

I've read everything she ever published and loved most of it; especially Doomsday Book. I only just started Blackout, so no spoilers please.

(but Passages... not so much. The first 1/2 was great, the second half not so much, and the last 50-100 pages totally dragged).

I couldn't spoil it if I wanted to.

You won't be able to put them down.

I will tell you that during an interview, she said she had flow-charts all over her office and she wasn't sure if she was going to be able to pull it off.

She does.

294

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:11:44pm

bbiab

295

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:11:48pm

re: #283 Gus

Ya know, I really did like the movie "Red Dawn" back in the day, but I saw it for the fiction it was, and did not mistake it for a documentary.

296

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:12:37pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Ya know, I really did like the movie "Red Dawn" back in the day, but I saw it for the fiction it was, and did not mistake it for a documentary.

By any chance could you talk to the people who fail to understand the definition of "fiction" where Harry Potter and so on are concerned?

297

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:13:13pm

re: #291 ggt

Yeah, but that upcoming war is probably going to be a reality.

I'm hearing more and mor about it -- and I am beginning to believe.

There won't be a "war". That's crazy talking coming from the right wing. There's a always a potential of pockets of civil strife as there's always been in America's past. These people are tiny minority of this country. Not even all right wingers adhere to this crazy crap and spend their days in the meat world not even knowing of this Breibart.com craziness.

298

Killgore Trout Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:13:19pm

Hasa Diga Eebowai

Youtube Video

299

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:13:24pm

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

Can someone explain why, in the "Hunger Games" futuristic scenario, they still have people going into coal mines?

Several bloggers I've read have pointed out that the social scenario of the trilogy is not perfectly thought out, but also, given the oppressive quality of the society, it might make sense that they're using a local fuel source, and are not adverse to getting it out with grueling physical labor and low-tech methods. Keeps the people employed, and ensures a shorter lifespan for the average worker than, say, doing it with mountain-moving machines would.

300

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:13:30pm

re: #289 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I don't care about their leanings.

They are being to pretentious assholes to both sides. I'll respect and befriend an honest and kind Conservative over a pretentious Liberal any day.

The fact that South Park is such assholes to everybody is what galls me. I don't want to watch a show made by people worse than me, which is quite a feat.

301

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:14:01pm

re: #290 sagehen

not a valid explanation... the tech exists for it to be drone-mined or otherwise automated. Her question isn't why coal is needed, but why *people* have to go in to get it.

Subjugation of the 12 remaining districts, including Katnip's, by the Capital.

302

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:14:30pm

re: #292 Bee#

Four hits of 4-way window pane. Basically the equivalent of 16 hit. I was tripping Paul Bunyan sized balls.

303

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:14:42pm

re: #301 Bee#

Name is misspelled, unless you meant it. :P

304

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:14:58pm

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

Oh, please! Obama didn't even say anything about this case till the DoJ got involved, and he hasn't tried to use it for political advantage either. And it's not just him that condemned Zimmerman's actions: Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum did so as well. So is every major presidential candidate an Alinskyite, or is Breitbart.com spewing bullshit? To ask the question is to answer it.

Obama didn't get involved because it was so awful Zimmerman shot Trayvonn; that's a simple local police matter. It's the police shrugging it off with "eh... whatev" that makes it a national outrage. That's not how any PD in America behaves when a white kid gets gunned down just for walking through a condo complex.

305

Decatur Deb Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:15:21pm

re: #291 ggt

Yeah, but that upcoming war is probably going to be a reality.

I'm hearing more and mor about it -- and I am beginning to believe.

Nothing more than a crop of McVeighs. The US Military lives in the real world, and the nut groups on either wing are heavily infiltrated.

306

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:15:58pm

re: #302 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Four hits of 4-way window pane. Basically the equivalent of 16 hit. I was tripping Paul Bunyan sized balls.

Holy shit man. I'm glad you survived.

307

Gus Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:16:20pm

And if I could say something nice about what I used to think about conservatives. That crap at Breitbart isn't conservative. Not in the least. That's crazy right wing conspiracy crap. If I were a conservative I'd be pretty damn pissed off that my movement was taken over by a bunch of stark raving lunatics and bigots.

308

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:16:42pm

re: #296 Mostly sane, most of the time.

By any chance could you talk to the people who fail to understand the definition of "fiction" where Harry Potter and so on are concerned?

Hahaha! Which ones? The kids who think there is actually such a thing as "magic", or the blithering reactionaries who actually think there is such a thing as "magic"?

309

abolitionist Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:17:23pm

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

Can someone explain why, in the "Hunger Games" futuristic scenario, they still have people going into coal mines?

Because the oil is all but gone?

310

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:17:41pm

re: #303 ProGunLiberal

Name is misspelled, unless you meant it. :P

Katniss's best friend Gale called her Katnip.

311

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:18:06pm

re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Hahaha! Which ones? The kids who think there is actually such a thing as "magic", or the blithering reactionaries who actually think there is such a thing as "magic"?

The blithering reactionaries who think that Harry Potter will actually cause kids to abandon Christianity and take up witchcraft.

(They will the instant that they realize that "real" witchcraft consists of mumbling some words out in the woods and then watching your enemy for a month and taking credit for anything bad that might happen to him, not turning him into a bouncing white ferret instantly.)

312

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:18:41pm

re: #310 Bee#

Ahh, I see. I will read the books after graduation.

313

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:19:20pm

re: #306 Bee#

Holy shit man. I'm glad you survived.

I didn't even know what it was. I just thought it was four hits. My buddy took a quarter hit (that asshole knew what it was) about an hour before me.

I stuck my tongue out and he said "Oh man, you are so fucked".

314

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:20:12pm

re: #303 ProGunLiberal

Name is misspelled, unless you meant it. :P

He's identifying with Gale, thus using his nickname for her. (I'm Team Peeta).

315

Achilles Tang Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:20:43pm

re: #124 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Also, I don't know where you are in the country, but the windfarms are out in the middle of nowhere, and by nowhere, I mean drive for an hour and not see a major town.

Late reply. Been watching a Nat Geo show on Coelacanths. That's what I'd be if not a Tang.

I'm in Florida. Plenty of sunshine. One problem with wind is that distance factor. It can cost as much or more to transmit the power as to create it, and nobody wants them within sight, but you can't drive an hour in Europe without seeing some. Of course they don't have the US distance problems.

However solar can be anywhere. In Germany power companies pay property owners to lease their roofs for solar panels, but with government subsidies which is a no no in the US anymore, but the question is who will be better off in 10 years. Those damned socialists or our freewheeling quarterly horizon corporations that are people?

A typical home in Florida could generate all of its needs with perhaps the same investment as for a decent new car and have it paid off in less than 10 years, but the car will be scrapped after having cost a significant amount in repairs and maintenance in 10 years or so. The solar panels and solid state equipment can be expected to last for another 20 years with minimal maintenance.

Go figure.

316

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:21:25pm

re: #314 sagehen

He's identifying with Gale, thus using his nickname for her. (I'm Team Peeta).

Did you read the third book?

317

ProGunLiberal Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:22:44pm

re: #314 sagehen

Oh shit, not this again!

318

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:22:59pm

re: #311 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Back when the first two movies were out, I knew a guy going to a private, Christian college. One of his instructors, commenting on the reactionary paranoia around it, said "If those books could actually give me the power to fly, I'd buy the whole darn series twice".

319

sagehen Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:23:25pm

re: #316 Bee#

Did you read the third book?

Yes; not as good as the first two, but a satisfying resolution.

320

b_sharp Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:26:34pm

re: #319 sagehen

Yes; not as good as the first two, but a satisfying resolution.

I thought it was better. It was gritty and complex and unlike the first two I found it more difficult to predict.

The ending smacked of 'crap I need to finish this ASAP'.

321

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:30:59pm

re: #311 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Heh. When I was a teen, during the Satanic Panic of the 80's, my Xtian mom found a couple of books I had stashed and lost her shit.

The books' subject matter revolved around nature magic, pagan or wicca or whatever it's called.

She thought I was turning towards satan. I was only reading through the goofy things to see if I could find naturally growing substances that had not yet been made illegal which could get me high.

322

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:43:19pm

re: #305 Decatur Deb

Nothing more than a crop of McVeighs. The US Military lives in the real world, and the nut groups on either wing are heavily infiltrated.

Very, very good to know.

323

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:45:11pm

re: #308 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Hahaha! Which ones? The kids who think there is actually such a thing as "magic", or the blithering reactionaries who actually think there is such a thing as "magic"?

magic is science we haven't yet figured out a/k/a future tech.

magic is science most people understand, but some refuse to = divination

324

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Apr 1, 2012 8:56:46pm

re: #323 ggt