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Planned Parenthood Bomber: ‘They’re Killing Babies There’

Confirmed: an anti-abortion terrorist
US News • Views: 30,692

Francis Grady, who’s accused of firebombing a Wisconsin Planned Parenthood clinic on Sunday night, appeared in court today and settled the question of whether or not he’s an anti-choice fanatic: he is.

A Grand Chute man accused of setting a fire at a Planned Parenthood clinic made his first appearance Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Green Bay.

Francis Grady, 50, told U.S. Magistrate Judge Sickel he planned to plead guilty, but Sickel ignored the statement and scheduled Grady for an April 19 preliminary hearing.

At one point, Grady interrupted him to ask, “Do you even care at all about the 1,000 babies that died screaming?

Grady told his lawyer, public defender Tom Phillip he was fired for interrupting Sickel, prompting a woman from the back of the courtroom to call out, “Shut up, Frankie.”

“My sister told me to shut up,” Grady said to Phillip. …

Outside the courtroom, Grady told a Green Bay Press-Gazette photographer, “I just want to give one wink to my girlfriend.” When a reporter asked him why he had planted a bomb at the clinic, Grady corrected him, saying, “There was no bomb, it was gasoline.” He said he did it because “they’re killing babies there.

This will come as a real disappointment to racist blogger Robert Stacy McCain, who earlier today wrote a long post mocking writer Michelle Goldberg for tying this terrorist act to the anti-abortion movement, and pointing at Grady’s criminal record as “evidence” that he had no connection.

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245 comments

1 Mocking Jay  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:21:41pm

Holy crap. I have to go to the sink to make sure that water is still wet.

2 William of Orange  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:22:00pm

Speaking about a failed abortion, remember Rick Santorum saying California didn't offer any history classes?

Here's what Stephen Colbert had to say.


Hilarious!!

3 nines09  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:24:46pm

Criminal record means not being anti choice......so the rational is......

4 Shvaughn  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:25:08pm

It's just a coincidence that he uses the exact same rhetoric as "mainstream" anti-choice activists.

Nothing to see here, more along!

//

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:31:01pm

re: #4 Shvaughn

Nothing to see here, more along!

//

I sure hope not.

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:32:41pm

re: #3 Krathing Daeng

Criminal record means not being anti choice...so the rational is...

No True Felon.

7 lockjawcanbefun  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:36:00pm
8 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:44:34pm

Oh sure, they are all cute little gurgling babies (with a full head of hair) who are demonically dismembered and then suctioned in chunks out of the womb of the mother who betrayed them to the genocidal serial killing abortionists who revel in and celebrate their status as "legal" murderers.

/Thank you "operation Rescue" for keeping the public informed so factually...sigh. :(

9 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:50:57pm

Ummm, Charles, Excuse me, I hate to be the one that points this out to you (and the rest of the Lizard Nation), but there is a difference between a bomb and an incendiary device.

Things that go BOOM! and spew shrapnel are a bomb.

Things that just start a fire are called incendiaries. There is a difference.

The person of interest isn't a bomber, he is an arsonist. And the fact that he committed this crime when he did shows he didn't want to hurt any one. Was he wrong? Yes Should he pay the price? Yes! But was he a bomber? Not even close.

10 dragonfire1981  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:55:34pm

So the best way to protest killing people is by attempting to...kill people?

11 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:56:12pm

This is going to get worse before it gets better. There are millions of these clueless nuts out there and a major industry built around telling them what they want to hear. At least a small percentage of them will be reckless enough to act on the non-stop incitement, but that could still be a very large number of potential terrorists in absolute terms.
Since they profess to believe that abortion literally is murder, and the brutal murder of tiny babies at that, only their fundamental lack of sincerity prevents a national uprising and general bloodbath. As it is, only delusional saps and losers like this clown Grady appear to take it seriously at all, and we can be thankful for that.

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:56:26pm

re: #9 Bubblehead II

Uh, no. This was apparently a Molotov cocktail-type device, which is definitely a type of bomb. See:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

13 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:57:14pm

Explosive or Incendiary Device Law & Legal Definition

This term means “(A) dynamite and all other forms of high explosives, (B) any explosive bomb, grenade, missile, or similar device, and (C) any incendiary bomb or grenade, fire bomb, or similar device, including any device which (i) consists of or includes a breakable container including a flammable liquid or compound, and a wick composed of any material which, when ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound, and (ii) can be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone.” United States v. Agrillo-Ladlad, 675 F.2d 905, 908 (7th Cir. Ill. 1982)

14 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 3:59:43pm

Meanwhile, the wingnut stalkers are really acting out today on Twitter, harassing everyone I communicate with. All they're achieving, though, is getting people pissed off at them, and then getting blocked.

15 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:01:35pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, the wingnut stalkers are really acting out today on Twitter, harassing everyone I communicate with. All they're achieving, though, is getting people pissed off at them, and then getting blocked.

Yeah, that's what those hoolums were doing to me for a while there. Everyone I'd Tweet they'd latch onto and act like they knew them. Really psycho stuff right there. I imagine they've been "talking" to me for a while now. Pathetic ignorant right-wing fools.

16 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:02:34pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

re: #13 jaunte

Then I stand corrected.

17 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:03:25pm

re: #15 Gus

It's fortunate then I have mine restricted in access. :D

18 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:03:47pm

Sounds like this case will be about as open and shut as it gets, no "reason of insanity" no "neccessary killing" just straight up arson, with a terroism twist.

19 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:07:10pm

re: #17 ProGunLiberal

It's fortunate then I have mine restricted in access. :D

I barely see 'em and I'm using the regular Twitter interface. I don't check #lgf anymore since those losers troll the place and frankly don't want to read one single word of their insane Pinochet fan-boy crap.

20 kirkspencer  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:09:20pm

re: #18 jamesfirecat

Sounds like this case will be about as open and shut as it gets, no "reason of insanity" no "neccessary killing" just straight up arson, with a terroism twist.

Since he wanted to plead guilty, yes.

21 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:12:09pm

re: #20 kirkspencer

Since he wanted to plead guilty, yes.

The only big question will be if he gets slapped with a charge of domestic terrorism or not, which I somehow doubt sadly....

22 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:12:16pm

Speaking of anti-abortion douche bags...Mitt Romney, as explained by Borowitz

23 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:19:26pm

re: #22 darthstar

Speaking of anti-abortion douche bags...Mitt Romney, as explained by Borowitz

That's hilarious and so true.

24 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:27:39pm

What's everybody cooking?

//

25 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:28:26pm

The biggest thing which pisses me off about the "pro-life" movement is their total lack of support for any other action other than banning abortions. They should be the ones screaming about affordable birth control, real sex education and other programs that would help women prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Instead, they scream about "baby killers" and fixate on slut shaming.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

26 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:29:38pm

re: #24 Gus

What's everybody cooking?

//

Just came from a late lunch early dinner at an all you can eat asian buffet which had Monogolian stir fry noodles.

I done ated too much noodles.

27 allegro  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:29:56pm

re: #25 Kragar

The biggest thing which pisses me off about the "pro-life" movement is their total lack of support for any other action other than banning abortions. They should be the ones screaming about affordable birth control, real sex education and other programs that would help women prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Instead, they scream about "baby killers" and fixate on slut shaming.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

That just tells what their REAL agenda is. It has nothing to do with babies and never did. It's about the evil feminazis.

28 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:31:47pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Blocking is a wonderful thing!

29 kirkspencer  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:32:48pm

re: #24 Gus

What's everybody cooking?

//

Boxed mac and cheese. added some slivered radishes and some garlic croutons for fun, frozen (well, were frozen until they met the microwave) peas for extra vitanimims.

30 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:34:33pm

Reheating roast chicken.

31 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:35:02pm

re: #28 Dancing along the light of day

Hey Flo!!

32 allegro  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:35:07pm

Chicken salad and avocado wrap. And wine.

33 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:35:50pm

re: #24 Gus

What's everybody cooking?

//

Not sure yet.

34 dragonfire1981  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:38:44pm

I knew there was a good reason I don't use Twitter.

35 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:39:48pm
Testimony in the trial of Monsignor William Lynn, 61, the priest accused of helping the Philadelphia archdiocese hide decades worth of priest sex abuse complaints in secret files, has shocked the jury.

The court heard this week how one priest joked about how hard it was to have sex with three boys in one week, after internal Catholic church documents were read in court for the first time.

The shocking testimony was revealed during Monsignor Lynn's trial, where he is the first Roman Catholic church official to be charged in the US for his handling of priest abuse complaints, and now faces charges of child endangerment and conspiracy.

36 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:40:26pm

Not much of news, but just for the record, Kevin MacDonald in response to SPLC:

I have indeed appeared on the David Duke radio show in recent weeks and intend to do so in the future. The SPLC continues the tired practice of labeling Duke “the ex-Klansman”—the usual guilt by association argument. After watching David Duke’s videos and reading his writings, I decided that I agree with the vast majority of what he is saying.

37 General Nimrod Bodfish  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:41:39pm

re: #24 Gus

What's everybody cooking?

//

Barbequed chicken and some grilled cabbage. Almost done.

38 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:41:44pm

re: #25 Kragar

The biggest thing which pisses me off about the "pro-life" movement is their total lack of support for any other action other than banning abortions. They should be the ones screaming about affordable birth control, real sex education and other programs that would help women prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Instead, they scream about "baby killers" and fixate on slut shaming.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

With a few exceptions this is all about:

Sex is for procreation not recreation and I wont rest until all you damned communist heathens get that through your thick skulls!!11!1

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:42:43pm

re: #36 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

This is the author published by VDARE along with Michelle Malkin.

40 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:43:29pm

re: #39 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

This is the author published by VDARE along with Michelle Malkin.

Page?

41 aagcobb  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:43:50pm

re: #36 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Not much of news, but just for the record, Kevin MacDonald in response to SPLC:

Well that confirms he's a racist.

42 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:44:10pm

re: #32 allegro

More wine!

43 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:44:29pm

re: #39 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Also the author whose book a conservative twitter starlet Brooks Bayne recommends to get a good handle on recent Jewish history.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:45:00pm

re: #40 Gus

[Link: www.vdare.com...]

45 b_sharp  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:45:28pm

re: #24 Gus

What's everybody cooking?

//

Porridge.

I've had a severe to middling stomach ache for 4 days and that's all that doesn't aggravate it.

46 Interesting Times  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:45:48pm

re: #35 goddamnedfrank

The court heard this week how one priest joked about how hard it was to have sex with three boys in one week, after internal Catholic church documents were read in court for the first time.

...

47 Shvaughn  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:47:02pm

re: #36 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Not much of news, but just for the record, Kevin MacDonald in response to SPLC:

Of course he agrees with David Duke, he's practically a klansman himself.

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:47:42pm

More from KMcD:

The image of Martin flashing gang signs may not be of him (at the time I mentioned it, I understood it to be accurate), but the one providing the same basic message and showing a non-childlike person with gold-plated teeth [...] is definitely authentic

49 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:48:14pm

I'll make a crazy rec for those who do fast food. Tried the KFC chicken pot pie - it was sooo good, real roasted chicken. Delish.

50 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:48:18pm

re: #25 Kragar

The biggest thing which pisses me off about the "pro-life" movement is their total lack of support for any other action other than banning abortions. They should be the ones screaming about affordable birth control, real sex education and other programs that would help women prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Instead, they scream about "baby killers" and fixate on slut shaming.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

They don't care about any of that stuff, not even abortion. Their aim is to shift politics in this country so far to the religious right that even Jesus would be decried as a radical leftist. Money, power, and influence. That's all that this crap is about.

51 Shvaughn  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:48:27pm

re: #48 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

More from KMcD:

What is a "non-childlike person" supposed to be anyway?

Besides a justification for murdering someone.

52 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:48:39pm

re: #44 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

[Link: www.vdare.com...]

Oh. Right, that Kevin MacDonald. Brooks Bayne's friend.

53 b_sharp  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:50:07pm

re: #49 Hoodies for Justice. T

I'll make a crazy rec for those who do fast food. Tried the KFC chicken pot pie - it was sooo good, real roasted chicken. Delish.

But fake pie crust.

54 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:50:51pm

He also makes this astute observation, which is factually correct:

Actually, in some of my recent comments on Duke’s program and elsewhere, I have noted that media coverage has changed quite a bit from when I first wrote my blog, to the point that it has become a debate between liberals and mainstream conservatives. I noted, for example, that Sean Hannity has been very critical of coverage by the liberal media

Yes, the conservative media is certainly on the same side as MacDonald in TM case.

55 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:52:04pm

re: #53 No Monkey Man (Born With a Banana in my Hand)

But fake pie crust.

I wouldn't know! Seems fine to this non-baker.

56 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:52:08pm

Night Lizards. The IF is in effect

57 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:52:23pm

re: #54 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

He also writes:

I suspect that people like Hannity realize that their mainly White audience is sick and tired of the “Whites victimizing Blacks” mantra—a good example of appealing to implicit Whiteness.

58 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:55:00pm

re: #57 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

He also writes:

That's some crazy shit right there. These people are dangerous.

59 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:55:53pm

re: #24 Gus

What's everybody cooking?

//

Nothing, but I'm watching that Rick Bayless mother-fucker, and it's pissing me off!
/

60 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:57:24pm

re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Nothing, but I'm watching that Rick Bayless mother-fucker, and it's pissing me off!
/

It's that nebulous and almost glass-like goatee. It's hypnotizing.

//

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:00:49pm

re: #60 Gus

Nah, it's mostly just class envy./

I only wish I had a kitchen and tools like that at my disposal. Even his blender screams "I ain't fucking around here."

62 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:02:08pm

re: #61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Nah, it's mostly just class envy./

I only wish I had a kitchen and tools like that at my disposal. Even his blender screams "I ain't fucking around here."

[Link: www.vikingrange.com...]

63 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:02:57pm

I like to get in their head and point this out to people I know who aim to end abortion rights based on their Christian faith. Why did the Angel Gabriel warn Joseph that Herod's soldiers were coming to kill baby Jesus and that Joseph needed to take Jesus and Mary and flee to Egypt, but Gabriel didn't warn any of the other parents of the coming massacre? The other male children of Bethlehem who Gabriel didn't alert were killed in the Massacre of the Innocents. Matthew 2: 16-18

The church long ago proclaimed those children were the first martyrs and that God took them to heaven. Nowadays the church refers to all aborted babies as Holy Innocents and teaches that they too are taken to heaven.

So here is the question, why should people who have no intention of helping raise and support children saved from abortion, insist that these babies be born to mothers who don't want them so they can slog it out on Earth for a lifetime when they had a free ticket to heaven?

Who are the anti-abortion people to get in the middle of that? Do they think they are doing the child a favor? Everything in the Gospels teaches them that a short life on Earth is misery compared to what God has waiting for them in heaven for an eternity.

Try this argument on your fundie friend and watch them twist and get angry.

64 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:03:35pm

re: #61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Nah, it's mostly just class envy./

I only wish I had a kitchen and tools like that at my disposal. Even his blender screams "I ain't fucking around here."

They sell his sauces at the Vons here, I liked.

Oh and you cannot watch cooking shows without food in front of you. Otherwise you'll go Behemoth on your whole kitchen when it's over.

65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:03:46pm
66 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:05:03pm

re: #65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks


Behemoth Range.

LOL

67 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:06:47pm

OT: Off to look for new digs where we'll be moving when the foreclosure completes in June. Probably won't be posting till Saturday evening. Take care of yourselves in the mean time.

68 Achilles Tang  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:06:51pm

re: #65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks


Behemoth Range.

Keeps the gulls and crows off I presume.

69 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:07:32pm

re: #64 Hoodies for Justice. T

They sell his sauces at the Vons here, I liked.

Oh and you cannot watch cooking shows without food in front of you. Otherwise you'll go Behemoth on your whole kitchen when it's over.

I believe I've mentioned this before, but I can't count how many times I've been watching one of my favorite cooking shows while hungry, and thinking resentfully of the peanut butter sandwich I'll be eating afterwards.

70 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:08:12pm

The things is, folks, people like Grady are simply taking the anti-choice rhetoric to its logical conclusion, as I pointed out when this story broke. If they TRULY believe that abortion is murder on the same scale as the Holocaust, then they logically have almost a moral duty to commit violence to try to stop it, or terrify people out of doing it.

This kind of terrorist act springs directly out of the extreme right wing religious rhetoric that fuels it. As far as I'm concerned the Republican Party and Fox News and right wing blogs and websites are complicit -- not responsible in the same sense as those who actually commit the violence, but very responsible for creating the atmosphere and the twisted rationale that leads to it.

71 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:08:21pm
72 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:09:34pm

re: #69 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I believe I've mentioned this before, but I can't count how many times I've been watching one of my favorite cooking shows while hungry, and thinking resentfully of the peanut butter sandwich I'll be eating afterwards.

I watch Top Chef religiously. I learned the hard way to prepare well. Must have awesome appetizers to munch throughout.

73 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:12:52pm

re: #68 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Keeps the gulls and crows off I presume.

Recently, when coming out of Costco with some supplies and a slice of pizza, I set the slice at the bottom of the cart while putting the supplies in my car.

A wee little bird hopped along to just below the cart, then did a quick hop-fly to the top edge of the cart just above my pizza. The ballsy little bastard was looking back and forth, from my pizza to me, as if to say "You gonna eat that?"

74 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:12:59pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

One should just remember O'Reilly's "Tiller the Killer".

75 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:14:44pm

I didn't finish reading the transcript of Obama's speech. And I'm not going to...

OK, maybe tomorrow.

76 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:17:34pm

re: #51 Shvaughn

What is a "non-childlike person" supposed to be anyway?

Besides a justification for murdering someone.

A grownup, therefore fair game if that person is one of them.

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:18:53pm

re: #74 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

One should just remember O'Reilly's "Tiller the Killer".

Or Coulter's reaction: "I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don't want to impose my moral values on others."

78 Achilles Tang  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:23:03pm

re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Or Coulter's reaction: "I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don't want to impose my moral values on others."

Did she really say that? Never mind...

Being the good creationist that she is, she must know that moral values are imposed by God, not by people like her.

79 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:25:05pm

Like George Carlin says, Right wingers love babies right up to the time they are born.

80 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:30:14pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

The things is, folks, people like Grady are simply taking the anti-choice rhetoric to its logical conclusion, as I pointed out when this story broke. If they TRULY believe that abortion is murder on the same scale as the Holocaust, then they logically have almost a moral duty to commit violence to try to stop it, or terrify people out of doing it.

This kind of terrorist act springs directly out of the extreme right wing religious rhetoric that fuels it. As far as I'm concerned the Republican Party and Fox News and right wing blogs and websites are complicit -- not responsible in the same sense as those who actually commit the violence, but very responsible for creating the atmosphere and the twisted rationale that leads to it.

And Podhoretz has a sad.

What the hell is McCarthyite about your statement? I think Podhoretz has a dumb.

Actually I think he has a denialism.

81 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:32:05pm

re: #80 wrenchwench

And Podhoretz has a sad.

[Embedded content]What the hell is McCarthyite about your statement? I think Podhoretz has a dumb.

Actually I think he has a denialism.

I obviously hit a big fat nerve.

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:32:28pm

re: #78 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Did she really say that? Never mind...

Being the good creationist that she is, she must know that moral values are imposed by God, not by people like her.

She does. She was making a joke about liberals asking the right not to push their moral values on others (of course, the joke also served as a defense of the shooters).

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:33:22pm

re: #80 wrenchwench

Isn't McCarthyism supposed to be good (today)?

84 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:34:38pm

Heh..This pic really does illustrate today's GOP.

Image: elephant-v-croc.jpg

85 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:35:14pm

re: #80 wrenchwench

And Podhoretz has a sad.

What the hell is McCarthyite about your statement? I think Podhoretz has a dumb.

Actually I think he has a denialism.

Somebody pass him the smelling salts.

86 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:35:21pm

re: #83 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Isn't McCarthyism supposed to be good (today)?

...

McCarthy was right!!!

Let's see, there was Eugene McCarthy, Paul McCarthy...oh wait, that was McCartney...

87 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:36:05pm

re: #83 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Isn't McCarthyism supposed to be good (today)?

Only if it's Republicans doing it, but they don't call it McCarthyism.

They call it being "patriotic" and "loving their country".

88 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:36:35pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

...

Let's see, there was Eugene McCarthy, Paul McCarthy...oh wait, that was McCartney...

Then there's the baseball player Steve McCarthy (or is that Garvey?)...

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:37:01pm

re: #78 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

@~00:10

Even Bill O'Reilly is like "WTF?"

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:37:09pm

re: #87 talon_262

Only if it's Republicans doing it, only they don't call it McCarthyism.

They call it being "patriotic" and "loving their country".

I'm pretty sure I've seen explicit defenses of McCarthy from the likes of Coulter and RS McCain.

91 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:37:09pm

Is there a reason that Francis the Talking Horse's Ass looks like an extra from Mad Max?

92 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:38:10pm

"McCarthyite" just isn't what it used to be.

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:38:31pm

re: #80 wrenchwench

And Podhoretz has a sad.

What the hell is McCarthyite about your statement? I think Podhoretz has a dumb.

Actually I think he has a denialism.

I only have one question. Who is John Podhoretz?

94 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:41:14pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I only have one question. Who is John Podhoretz?

...

John Podhoretz (pronounced /pɒdˈhɔrɨts/; born April 18, 1961) is an American neoconservative columnist for the New York Post, the editor of Commentary magazine, the author of several books on politics, and a former presidential speechwriter.

[...]

And a Twitter twit.

95 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:41:21pm

re: #91 Mich-again

Is there a reason that Francis the Talking Horse's Ass looks like an extra from Mad Max?

Lord Humongous!

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:41:41pm

re: #84 darthstar

Heh..This pic really does illustrate today's GOP.

Image: elephant-v-croc.jpg

"We really stuck our trunk in it this time, fellas."

Let's hope there is still time for them to learn their lesson. Or maybe the GOP will dissolve, and the more hard-core fundamentalist fanatics will form the CrocoDuck party.

97 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:45:59pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I only have one question. Who is John Podhoretz?

I once built a website for John Podhoretz, back in the post-9/11 day.

98 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:47:51pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I only have one question. Who is John Podhoretz?

The next thing he tweeted was a link to this article, with 'Wow.' as his only commentary.

By SHELBY STEELE

Two tragedies are apparent in the Trayvon Martin case. The first is obvious: A teenager—unarmed and committing no crime—was shot dead. Dressed in a "hoodie," a costume of menace, he crossed paths with a man on the hunt for precisely such clichés of menace. Added to this—and here is the rub—was the fact of his dark skin.

Maybe it was more the hood than the dark skin, but who could argue that the skin did not enhance the menace of the hood at night and in the eyes of someone watching for crime. (Fifty-five percent of all federal prisoners are black though we are only 12% of the population.) Would Trayvon be alive today had he been walking home—Skittles and ice tea in hand—wearing a polo shirt with an alligator logo? Possibly. And does this make the ugly point that dark skin late at night needs to have its menace softened by some show of Waspy Americana? Possibly.

What is fundamentally tragic here is that these two young males first encountered each other as provocations. Males are males, and threat often evokes a narcissistic anger that skips right past reason and into a will to annihilate: "I will take you out!" There was a terrible fight. Trayvon apparently got the drop on George Zimmerman, but ultimately the man with the gun prevailed. Annihilation was achieved.

If this was all there was to it, the Trayvon/Zimmerman story would be no more than a cautionary tale, yet another admonition against the hair-trigger male ego. But this story brought reaction from the White House: "If I had a son he would look like Trayvon," said the president. The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, ubiquitous icons of black protest, virtually battled each other to stand at the bereaved family's side—Mr. Jackson, in a moment of inadvertent honesty, saying, "There is power in blood . . . we must turn a moment into a movement." And then there was the spectacle of black Democrats in Congress holding hearings on racial profiling with Trayvon's parents featured as celebrities.

In fact Trayvon's sad fate clearly sent a quiver of perverse happiness all across America's civil rights establishment, and throughout the mainstream media as well. His death was vindication of the "poetic truth" that these establishments live by. Poetic truth is like poetic license where one breaks grammatical rules for effect. Better to break the rule than lose the effect. Poetic truth lies just a little; it bends the actual truth in order to highlight what it believes is a larger and more important truth.

The civil rights community and the liberal media live by the poetic truth that America is still a reflexively racist society, and that this remains the great barrier to black equality. But this "truth" has a lot of lie in it. America has greatly evolved since the 1960s. There are no longer any respectable advocates of racial segregation. And blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites.

If Trayvon Martin was a victim of white racism (hard to conceive since the shooter is apparently Hispanic), his murder would be an anomaly, not a commonplace.

[...]

'Wow' is not inappropriate, but I would add something like, 'What a load..' or something.

99 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:48:41pm

Way cool, from Politico:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

100 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:48:46pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I only have one question. Who is John Podhoretz?

Writes for New York Post and the Weakly Substandard I think.

101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:49:31pm

re: #94 wrenchwench

re: #97 Charles Johnson

Ah, thanks. And I wasn't being sarcastic. I really had no idea who the guy was.

Maybe that's why a lot of these former associates of yours are in constant butthurt mode. They owe their initial web successes to you, Charles, and can't stand to live with that fact.

102 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:51:06pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

"Tell 'em what they want to hear, Shelby."

103 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:52:00pm

re: #102 jaunte

"Tell 'em what they want to hear, Shelby."

I didn't even finish reading it. Holy shit.

104 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:53:53pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

The next thing he tweeted was a link to this article, with 'Wow.' as his only commentary.

'Wow' is not inappropriate, but I would add something like, 'What a load..' or something.

Shorter version...

"Leave me alone! I don't want to hear about these things. They make me very uncomfortable."

105 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:54:10pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

He completely skipped the part where this is a story because the Sanford police didn't arrest anyone, despite a fatal shooting.

106 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:54:28pm

I gotta go home and eat and stuff.

Later, lizards.

107 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:55:22pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, the wingnut stalkers are really acting out today on Twitter, harassing everyone I communicate with. All they're achieving, though, is getting people pissed off at them, and then getting blocked.

@PissedLizard is a crazy wingnut, too bad he grabbed such a cool Twitter name.

108 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:55:48pm

Richard Land: Trayvon Martin case is just getting attention to get votes out for Obama

The Southern Baptist Convention’s Richard Land said on his radio show Saturday that black leaders are exploiting the Trayvon Martin shooting death in Florida for political gain, the Associated Baptist Press first reported.

Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, is the denomination’s top public-policy spokesman and made the allegation on his radio show Saturday, ABP reported.

He said Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are creating a “mob mentality,” and President Obama used the incident for political gain when he said, if he had a son, that son would look like Martin.

“He put the presidential spotlight on Trayvon Martin’s death and thereby bolstered the burgeoning protest,” the ABP quoted Land as saying. “I believe Mr. Obama’s comments were misguided, and I think they were harmful. No one knows what his son would look like. The statement was meant as a sign of racial solidarity. Martin is black, so by extension Mr. Obama shares the victim’s racial identity.”

109 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:56:24pm

re: #107 Learned Mother of Zion

@PissedLizard is a crazy wingnut, too bad he grabbed such a cool Twitter name.

Another patriot.

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:57:17pm

Christians egg on non-believers

It is an unorthodox Easter celebration but the chance to "egg a Christian" has created a stir at Auckland University - with a large crowd expected to take up the offer today.

Anybody who wants to can head to the University quad today and biff an egg at a member of the campus Christian group Student Life Auckland - but there is a catch.

"The meaning of the Easter story and Christ's resurrection will be explained to those wanting to throw eggs," explains a flyer.
---
"So we're hoping to reach students wherever they're at on campus - whether they're atheist, agnostic, Hindu - we're just keen to have some chats with people."

Umm...

111 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 5:58:58pm
112 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:00:10pm

Bryan has a sad.

Bryan Fischer: The problem with Romney: not Mormon enough

If, for the sake of argument, Romney wins the nomination, social conservatives had better shift their intense focus to taking over the Senate and the House, as we will not have a reliable ally in the Oval Office no matter who wins in November. Obama will be an in-your-face adversary on social issues, and Romney will be a splintered reed on which to lean at best. He has, of course, been saying the right things on the campaign trail, but his record (as opposed to his rhetoric) is reason for grave concern.

He will certainly be a superior choice to Obama, who is not even pretending to believe the right things, and conservative voters who don’t want to throw their votes away will want to vote against Obama even if it they find it difficult to get enthused about voting for Romney. Romney will clearly be a less distasteful choice than the incumbent.

President Obama wins another four years, it will be absolutely imperative, if America is to have a future that even remotely resembles its founding, to have pro-values majorities in both houses to roadblock the disastrous policy proposals that the Obama administration belches forth on nearly a daily basis.

Absolute, utter, total gridlock will be our only hope.

So much for "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way".

113 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:00:24pm

re: #111 Learned Mother of Zion

That seems pissed in both the "angry" sense and the "overwhelmingly drunk" sense.

114 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:00:48pm

re: #108 Kragar

Richard Land, another conservative who just can't help himself:

"Perhaps the best way to describe Mormonism, perhaps the most charitable way to describe Mormonism, is that it’s a fourth Abrahamic religion, with Joseph Smith playing the role that Muhammad plays in Islam and the Book of Mormon playing the role that the Quran plays in Islam. It’s based upon the Christian faith and the Jewish faith but it goes beyond them and it contradicts them. Islam is not a Christian faith. Mormonism is not a Christian faith.”

115 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:01:26pm

re: #92 jaunte

"McCarthyite" just isn't what it used to be.

But it's great for counter tops.

116 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:02:23pm

re: #112 Kragar

So much for "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way".

I think their slogan is 'Bleat, fuck up, and get in the way.'

117 kirkspencer  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:02:31pm

re: #101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

re: #97 Charles Johnson

Ah, thanks. And I wasn't being sarcastic. I really had no idea who the guy was.

Maybe that's why a lot of these former associates of yours are in constant butthurt mode. They owe their initial web successes to you, Charles, and can't stand to live with that fact.

Ah. I was being sarcastic and thought you were when I up-dinged you.

118 Big Joe  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:06:04pm

re: #115 darthstar

But it's great for counter tops.

I bet Michelle Malkin would love them.

119 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:08:16pm

Hey everyone! I'm going to hell! I'm so glad I took up surfing...haven't been keeping up with my fornicating lately.

120 Lidane  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:10:12pm

re: #119 darthstar

Hey everyone! I'm going to hell! I'm so glad I took up surfing...haven't been keeping up with my fornicating lately.

These people lead boring lives if musicians and artists are hellbound.

121 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:10:40pm

re: #112 Kragar

So much for "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way".

That got ditched long ago, maybe even before that budget show down that dinged our nation's credit rating.

122 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:13:14pm

re: #119 darthstar

Hey everyone! I'm going to hell! I'm so glad I took up surfing...haven't been keeping up with my fornicating lately.

Addicts? Like people who are 24/7 Christ mainliners? Those kinds of addicts?

123 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:14:45pm

I would have figured a guy like Podhoretz would have stopped following Charles after he wrote "why I left the right." Anyway, looks like the stalkers got a kick out of that. It's as if thought they monitor everything that Charles does. I know, I know. That's a well known fact already. Caught a peek of someone babbling about something to me earlier that I Tweeted to their dear leader Joel Pollak of PrisonBreitbartPlanet. Didn't even read it. Poor guys. They're really still butthurt about being kicked off of Little Green Footballs.

124 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:15:57pm

re: #119 darthstar

Hey everyone! I'm going to hell! I'm so glad I took up surfing...haven't been keeping up with my fornicating lately.

125 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:18:10pm

re: #119 darthstar

Hey everyone! I'm going to hell! I'm so glad I took up surfing...haven't been keeping up with my fornicating lately.

Skeet surfing?

126 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:19:49pm
127 Lidane  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:21:07pm

re: #126 Gus

*sigh*

128 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:23:48pm

re: #126 Gus

Didn't the RWNJs try to sandbag HRC with a "lesbian" rumor back during Bill's term?

129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:24:23pm

re: #123 Gus

One of the funnier moments of the Great Creationist Exodus was when a bunch of members here were 'secretly' (that is quite openly on another blog) planning to stage massive, coordinated "Flounce Out" as protest against Charles siding with science and reason instead of myth and superstition.

When their devious plot was uncovered, they all got the boot before having the chance to throw their mass temper tantrum.

130 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:26:06pm

re: #128 talon_262

Didn't the RWNJs try to sandbag HRC with a "lesbian" rumor back during Bill's term?

I remember hearing that on and off. Typically, the right wing will start making fantastic accusations about people's sexuality when they can't debate an issue. They have a very vivid imagination on these things. Odd that.

131 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:27:54pm

re: #129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

One of the funnier moments of the Great Creationist Exodus was when a bunch of members here were 'secretly' (that is quite openly on another blog) planning to stage massive, coordinated "Flounce Out" as protest against Charles siding with science and reason instead of myth and superstition.

When their devious plot was uncovered, they all got the boot before having the chance to throw their mass temper tantrum.

Goes to show that some people just aren't that smart.

132 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:28:03pm

re: #108 Kragar

He said Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are creating a “mob mentality,” and President Obama used the incident for political gain when he said, if he had a son, that son would look like Martin.

Bottom line..Be afraid comfortable conservative, be verrry afraid.

133 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:31:05pm

Oh God this is hilarious.

Obama, Tupac, and the Murder of Andrew Breitbart
Posted by Gen. JC Christian, Patriot

Last night, I received a call that may finally bring an end to the OBAMUNIST USURPER's rein of friendly and personable terror. I immediately recognized the caller's voice. It was Operative Jethro. I've worked with him before. He sold me Obama's original birth certificate, the document that proved Obama is a reptillian alien from the Szlzrdian star system.

"Have you been following the new revelations about Obama," he asked, "the ones exposed by Fox New's Heather Childers and godfatherpolitics.com?"

"Yes," I replied. I knew about the OBAMUNIST USURPER's threats against Chelsea Clinton's life and his plot to murder Supreme Court justices....

Read it. Look at the pictures...

134 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:34:49pm

re: #133 Gus

Oh God this is hilarious.

Obama, Tupac, and the Murder of Andrew Breitbart
Posted by Gen. JC Christian, Patriot

Read it. Look at the pictures...

Hilarious!

135 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:35:31pm

Sure enough. In another case much like Charles it follows the same pattern:

136 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:36:00pm

re: #133 Gus

Oh God this is hilarious.

Obama, Tupac, and the Murder of Andrew Breitbart
Posted by Gen. JC Christian, Patriot

Read it. Look at the pictures...

Its all so clear to me now.

137 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:36:47pm

re: #136 Kragar

Its all so clear to me now.

It's even got, um, lizards! Gasp! Could it be?

//

138 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:38:03pm

Where the hell is Breitbart's tox test?

They are Hollywood, and had enough $ to make this an addition to the LA mysterious sudden death hall of fame.

139 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:40:11pm

re: #137 Gus

It's even got, um, lizards! Gasp! Could it be?

//

That can only mean one thing....Charles was in on the whole thing with President Obama and Tupac!

Charles' nitrogen-filled lair under DIA must be home base for them while they did the job...

//

140 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:42:19pm
141 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:51:50pm

One of them is a piece of 1950s clip art. One of them is a disingenuous hypocritical flip-flopper associated with a weird religious cult. One of them is the Republican party's presidential candidate.

Can you tell which one is which?

Image: cYfoe.jpg

142 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:54:34pm

re: #141 Patronizing Laugh Track

One of them is a piece of 1950s clip art. One of them is a disingenuous hypocritical flip-flopper associated with a weird religious cult. One of them is the Republican party's presidential candidate.

Can you tell which one is which?

Image: cYfoe.jpg

One of them is a piece of 1950s clip art. One of them is a disingenuous hypocritical flip-flopper associated with a weird religious cult.

the other one is Bob of the Subgenius.

143 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:55:19pm

Rachel Maddow just challenged a Santorum spokesman on his candidate's complete fabrications about the lack of American History teaching in California colleges, and the imaginary euthanasia plague in the Netherlands. His answer: Rick Santorum doesn't have a pollster on his staff, because he doesn't want someone whispering in his ear telling him what people want to hear.

144 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:57:01pm

re: #143 jaunte

Rachel Maddow just challenged a Santorum spokesman on his candidate's complete fabrications about the lack of American History teaching in California colleges, and the imaginary euthanasia plague in the Netherlands. His answer: Rick Santorum doesn't have a pollster on his staff, because he doesn't want someone whispering in his ear telling him what people want to hear.

Well. I'm just basing this on hearsay! Nothing wrong with that.

//

145 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:57:14pm

re: #143 jaunte

Rachel Maddow just challenged a Santorum spokesman on his candidate's comlete fabrications about the lack of American History teaching in California colleges, and the imaginary euthanasia plague in the Netherlands. His answer: Rick Santorum doesn't have a pollster on his staff, because he doesn't want someone whispering in his ear telling him what people want to hear.

I just want to hear that the Republican party isn't taking a mentally ill person seriously as a standard bearer for their party.

146 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:58:13pm

Heh...the city of Tampa isn't putting firearms on the list of potential weapons at the GOP convention.

147 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:58:28pm

re: #144 Gus

That guy was pathetic. He couldn't admit Santorum was wrong even about the American history classes, just told Maddow "I'll have to take your word for it."

148 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:59:11pm

re: #146 darthstar

That is a massive joke right there. No improvement needed.

149 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:59:15pm

re: #147 jaunte

That guy was pathetic. He couldn't admit Santorum was wrong even about the American history classes, just told Maddow "I'll have to take your word for it."

Oh, wait...sorry...some guns are banned... water pistols.

150 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:05:09pm

re: #148 ProGunLiberal

That is a massive joke right there. No improvement needed.

Apparently the Secret Service thinks Florida's laws are fucked in the head and they won't be allowing firearms near the Republican candidate for unknown reasons.

151 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:05:21pm

re: #149 darthstar

Oh, wait...sorry...some guns are banned... water pistols.

Damn... WAIT! I can bring my squirt gun that's designed to look like a real gun and they won't be able to stop me!

152 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:08:51pm

re: #150 darthstar

Apparently the Secret Service thinks Florida's laws are fucked in the head and they won't be allowing firearms near the Republican candidate for unknown reasons.

They've lost their minds. I don't know what to say anymore. If this was some private convention I wouldn't give two shits. But this is a political party that is involved in defining the direction of America's psyche and policy. The Republican Party has morphed into a far-right revanchist party of crackpots of every color. It's a big tent alright. A big tent of crazy.

153 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:11:10pm

This however is excellent news:

Former policemen in Katrina bridge shootings jailed

• Robert Faulcon, 48, received the longest sentence of 65 years;
• Kenneth Bowen, 38, and Robert Gisevius, 39, received 40 years each;
• Anthony Villavaso, 35, was sentenced to 38 years in prison.

• Retired Sgt Arthur Kaufman, 55, the officer who was assigned to investigate the shootings, received a six-year prison sentence for helping to co-ordinate the cover-up.

154 darthstar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:12:33pm

re: #153 Gus

This however is excellent news:

Former policemen in Katrina bridge shootings jailed

Justice...sometimes it just takes seven years.

155 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:13:27pm

re: #129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Some of them weren't creationists, they just had different opinions, and yes Charles site, Charles rules!

156 jaunte  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:13:50pm

Coke pulls support from ALEC over voter suppression efforts

"The Coca-Cola Company has elected to discontinue its membership with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Our involvement with ALEC was focused on efforts to oppose discriminatory food and beverage taxes, not on issues that have no direct bearing on our business. We have a long-standing policy of only taking positions on issues that impact our Company and industry."
...
Coke’s retreat came just five hours after Color of Change announced its petition, which read: “ALEC has pushed voter ID laws which disenfranchise large numbers of Black voters. Along with the NRA, ALEC also pushed a bill based on Florida’s ‘shoot first’ law – which has shielded Trayvon Martin’s killer from justice – into two dozen states across the country.”

157 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:19:10pm

re: #156 jaunte

Coke pulls support from ALEC over voter suppression efforts

Read about their scumbag chairman, Noble Ellington, here. Late bloomer in that he switched over from being a Dixiecrat to Republican in 2010.

158 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:44:07pm

re: #156 jaunte

ALEC still enjoys tax-exempt status as a 501(c)(3) organization, even though the IRS regulations say this..

To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

What a joke. Their whole purpose for existence is to affect legislation. Apparently the IRS has been too busy the last couple decades to notice these tax cheaters who chum around with GOP legislators.

159 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:47:25pm

If you were wondering - it looks like we had a short server hiccup for a few minutes. Back up and running normally now.

160 Big Joe  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:55:38pm

Yay

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:00:53pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Christians egg on non-believers

Umm...

If I wanted to throw an egg at a Christian, I would just get one of my cousins.

162 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:01:20pm

For a while there I thought I put everyone to sleep.

163 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:02:36pm

re: #3 Krathing Daeng

Criminal record means not being anti choice...so the rational is...

No True Scotsman, with the normal nod to Jimmah if he's on the board tonight.

164 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:04:25pm

I'm now getting the word that there were significant power outages in the Texas/Southwest area, and that's probably why some people couldn't get to LGF.

165 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:05:12pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

Would make sense. Now, I have to see what's up with the power outage.

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:05:37pm

re: #154 darthstar

Justice...sometimes it just takes seven years.

Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceedingly small.

167 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:06:37pm

re: #156 jaunte

Coke pulls support from ALEC over voter suppression efforts

Calling the Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law a "Shoot First" law is seriously deceptive. In no state do you have to wait for an attacker to actually fire and gun or swing a contact weapon before you may use deadly force lawfully. The writer seems to be concluding that the law gives people carte blanche to shoot whomever them feel like shooting, which is neither its intent nor its effect.

168 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:07:10pm

re: #159 Charles Johnson

If you were wondering - it looks like we had a short server hiccup for a few minutes. Back up and running normally now.

Gah. I just about chewed my fingers off!

169 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:09:41pm

I got Zedushka to watch "South Park." Normally he's like all pearl clutchy about the vulgarity and juvenile toilet jokes, but he got a chuckle out of the "Jewpacabra." However "The Runaway Penis" is still his favorite episode of all time.

170 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:11:55pm

Moonbats are so silly
Oops, MSNBC reports (my) fictional, satirical piece as real news

Lesson to MSNBC, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:14:52pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

Moonbats are so silly
Oops, MSNBC reports (my) fictional, satirical piece as real news

Is it me, or did the distinction between news and not-news used to be somewhat clearer?

172 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:16:34pm

George Zimmerman 911 call: what the fallout is from botched editing

NBC has apologized for the editing and launched its own investigation into what happened. “During our investigation it became evident that there was an error made in the production process that we deeply regret,” says a statement released by NBC spokeswoman Lauren Kapp. “We will be taking the necessary steps to prevent this from happening in the future and apologize to our viewers.”

"removing dust under poor lighting"
/Lol

173 Lidane  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:18:13pm

re: #169 Learned Mother of Zion

I got Zedushka to watch "South Park." Normally he's like all pearl clutchy about the vulgarity and juvenile toilet jokes, but he got a chuckle out of the "Jewpacabra." However "The Runaway Penis" is still his favorite episode of all time.

I still haven't watched the "Jewpacabra" episode, but my favorite by far is the "Last of the Meheecans" one. Funny stuff.

Also, "Medicinal Fried Chicken" had me in tears when Randy and the other men were bouncing around all over town. Haha.

174 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:18:26pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it me, or did the distinction between news and not-news used to be somewhat clearer?

That's a genuinely tough question. I don't think it was clearer in the past but it's easier to find out now.

175 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:18:40pm

Good to see the Republican controlled Louisiana State Legislature has nothing better to do than draft stupid resolutions complaining to Roger Goodell and the NFL that the penalty for Bountygate was too harsh.

Louisiana House Concurrent Resolution No. 50

WHEREAS, the New Orleans Saints have produced countless exciting and magical moments for the city of New Orleans, the state of Louisiana, the Gulf Coast region, and the entire country; and
WHEREAS, the taxpayers of Louisiana have invested millions of dollars into the success of the Saints organization by supporting stadium improvements, practice facilities, and other incentives; and
12 WHEREAS, the popularity of the New Orleans Saints has provided a tremendously positive economic impact, and the sanctions faced by the team will likely have a negative economic impact across the Crescent City and the state as a whole; and
blah blah blah..

Dear Saints, GGF you cheating scumbags.
signed, Every other NFL City.

176 Lidane  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:19:02pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Is it me, or did the distinction between news and not-news used to be somewhat clearer?

That was before The Daily Show and The Colbert Report became more reliable sources than the news networks.

177 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:19:52pm

Ah. I see the attorney for George Zimmerman has returned.

178 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:19:56pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Considering the insanity we have today, yes, you are right.

179 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:22:00pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

George Zimmerman 911 call: what the fallout is from botched editing

"removing dust under poor lighting"
/Lol

It's a serious blunder, since it gives the crazies something that actually happened to cite as an example of "MSM TREASON!!1". They'll blow it all out of proportion, of course, but just by itself its a pretty serious failure.

At best, this altered audio is a major, but not malicious, fuckup. At worst, NBC News let its desire for ratings lead it to commit a BOG (Breitbart O'Keefe Grayson).

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:24:49pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

It's a serious blunder, since it gives the crazies something that actually happened to cite as an example of "MSM TREASON!!1". They'll blow it all out of proportion, of course, but just by itself its a pretty serious failure.

At best, this altered audio is a major, but not malicious, fuckup. At worst, NBC News let its desire for ratings lead it to commit a BOG (Breitbart O'Keefe Grayson).

Their "investigation" turned up nothing useful so there's no indication of what really happened or why. In today's environment they can just sweep it under the rug and nobody's bothered by it.

181 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:25:59pm

re: #173 Lidane

I still haven't watched the "Jewpacabra" episode, but my favorite by far is the "Last of the Meheecans" one. Funny stuff.

Also, "Medicinal Fried Chicken" had me in tears when Randy and the other men were bouncing around all over town. Haha.

Best. South. Park. Ever. Ever.

182 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:26:49pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

Their "investigation" turned up nothing useful so there's no indication of what really happened or why. In today's environment they can just sweep it under the rug and nobody's bother by it.

And that right there is enough to make you cry. Woe is I, that I should live in such honorless times!

/Drama Queen Mode

183 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:29:32pm

OT:

A fairly significant development in the climate change battle:

A scientific paper published Wednesday aims to undermine an argument used by some who are skeptical of a connection between warming temperatures and rising carbon dioxide, but those skeptics weren't budging.

[Link: usnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

184 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:30:33pm

re: #175 Mich-again

Good to see the Republican controlled Louisiana State Legislature has nothing better to do than draft stupid resolutions complaining to Roger Goodell and the NFL that the penalty for Bountygate was too harsh.

Louisiana House Concurrent Resolution No. 50

Dear Saints, GGF you cheating scumbags.
signed, Every other NFL City.

Funny that they and other hardcore Saints apologists don't cast a critical eye towards the people who broke the rules and tried to purposely injure opposing players and towards the coaching staff who either encouraged it or turned a blind eye towards it.

I'm glad Goodell dropped the hammer on those involved; Gregg Williams, who was our defensive coordinator with the Titans before he went to the Saints, then the Rams (where our former head coach, Jeff Fisher, now resides), was neck-deep in this shit, which is why he got the stiffest penalties. I have to wonder if he did this bounty shit with the Titans too, because you know this wasn't a new idea.

185 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:34:55pm

re: #183 Talking Point Detective

There were two papers published today wrt climate change and atmospheric gasses. Some have confused the two (not saying the article you linked at MSNBC did.)

The first was looking at global correlations of temperature changes and atmospheric gases, CO2 in particular, and the rise in temperature during the latter part of the Pleistocene. That's the one your link is about. Unfortunately, as is typical of these things, the article fails to give the background of the whole struggle to get the "skeptics" to accept reality.

The other paper is actually more profound, and had to do with methane spikes during rapid warming events way back, 50 to 55 million years ago, and proposes that the way to account for the extra methane releases during these periods was massive release of methane from continental permafrost. Thus the authors assert that this type of positive feedback happened in the past, and the rocks show it.

186 Achilles Tang  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:35:46pm

re: #183 Talking Point Detective

OT:

A fairly significant development in the climate change battle:

A scientific paper published Wednesday aims to undermine an argument used by some who are skeptical of a connection between warming temperatures and rising carbon dioxide, but those skeptics weren't budging.

[Link: usnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Of course they aren't budging, any more than any religious belief can allow itself to budge without dissolving.

187 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:38:46pm

re: #184 talon_262

Funny that they and other hardcore Saints apologists don't cast a critical eye towards the people who broke the rules and tried to purposely injure opposing players and towards the coaching staff who either encouraged it or turned a blind eye towards.

I'm glad Goodell dropped the hammer on those involved; Gregg Williams, who was our defensive coordinator with the Titans before he went to the Saints, then the Rams (where our former head coach, Jeff Fisher, now resides) was neck-deep in this shit. I have to wonder if he did this bounty shit with the Titans too, because you know this wasn't a new idea.

The legislature doesn't care about those others who got hurt, not as a legislature they don't anyway. They are voting to show their constituents they sympathize with them. Such votes are routine and not really based on reality.

188 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:40:34pm

re: #184 talon_262

I should point out that the Dems in the LA legislature supported that resolution as well. It just might be the first example of Bipartisan cooperation in the last 4 years.

But it is funny how the "throw the book at em" types always want to point out extenuating circumstances and make excuses when their hide is on the line.

189 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:44:39pm

Hey all!

On for a short while --while headache has abated. I'm not tempting fate by staying vertical too long.

How is it going?

190 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:45:21pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

George Zimmerman 911 call: what the fallout is from botched editing

"removing dust under poor lighting"
/Lol

The most important point is buried at the end of that article....

Goedkoop of La Salle University sees parallels with the case of Rodney King, whose beating by Los Angeles police was videotaped.

“The nation felt quite certain it saw the truth of what happened to Rodney King. The public is similarly sure about this case,” he writes. “The [district attorney] in King's case tried it as if the images spoke for themselves. Yet ... the defense won by offering a more convincing explanation of the images, focusing on what is by definition invisible – the officers' motives, reasoning, judgment, and feelings.”

He continues, “The [acquittal of the police officers resulted in] one of the worst riots in our nation's history. You have to wonder if we are doomed to repeat a history we refuse to learn from.”

When the press fails to inform the public accurately bad things happen. Zimmerman may walk, maybe from genuine innocence or from a technicality. The press has spread enough misinformation, conjecture and questionable forensic "science" that the public isn't informed enough to make sense of the case. It's a potential derpfest with very serious consequences.

191 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:46:28pm

Regarding climate change, I feel like I've given up trying to convince the crowds. I feel like few people want to invest the time to understand what is really going on. Those of us with a physical science background have a head start, and because climatology is both intricately connected political concerns as well as fundamentally being inter-disciplinary (depending upon knowledge and skills from nearly all the physical science specialties as well as some of biology) it takes effort to understand the topics involve.

The subject of the scientific paper in that MSNBC piece fundamentally depends upon the reader knowing the difference between causality and correlation, and understanding the multi-parameter nature of the "cause" of global surface temperature changes.

Some of my local stores have eliminated self-checkout, due in part no doubt to theft but also that it took too much manpower to staff the "self" checkout. I think the answer someone floated to me was that the self-checkout wasn't working well.

And you know why? Because it's too difficult for at least half the population to operate. That may be difficult for us, a group of self selected nerds on a blog to accept, but there are many Americans who are intimidated by a computer screen.

How am I (or anyone) going to explain climatology to a person who doesn't have the self-confidence to operate a number pad on a touch screen?

That might sound elitist of me (and maybe it is), but that is the "problem" in a nutshell.

192 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:48:02pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

ABC needs to be attacked over the "Forensics Group" they hired. There are so many damn holes with that group, and their "analysis."

193 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:48:52pm

re: #191 freetoken

Some of my local stores have eliminated self-checkout, due in part no doubt to theft but also that it took too much manpower to staff the "self" checkout. I think the answer someone floated to me was that the self-checkout wasn't working well.

And you know why? Because it's too difficult for at least half the population to operate. That may be difficult for us, a group of self selected nerds on a blog to accept, but there are many Americans who are intimidated by a computer screen.

I don't like self-checkout because I don't like to bag my own groceries. And I use the cloth bags!

194 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:50:15pm

re: #193 Learned Mother of Zion

I don't like self-checkout because I don't like to bag my own groceries. And I use the cloth bags!

I know there are people who want baggers. I guess it's part of my hermit nature to want to bag my own.

195 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:51:57pm

re: #192 ProGunLiberal

ABC needs to be attacked over the "Forensics Group" they hired. There are so many damn holes with that group, and their "analysis."

I would apply the same criteria to the police station video and the voice analysis of the 9-11 tapes. I'm not even so sure the "stand your ground" laws even apply in this case. The reporting has been shit and the public is dumber for consuming it.

196 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:52:51pm

re: #191 freetoken

Regarding climate change, I feel like I've given up trying to convince the crowds. I feel like few people want to invest the time to understand what is really going on. Those of us with a physical science background have a head start, and because climatology is both intricately connected political concerns as well as fundamentally being inter-disciplinary (depending upon knowledge and skills from nearly all the physical science specialties as well as some of biology) it takes effort to understand the topics involve.

The subject of the scientific paper in that MSNBC piece fundamentally depends upon the reader knowing the difference between causality and correlation, and understanding the multi-parameter nature of the "cause" of global surface temperature changes.

Some of my local stores have eliminated self-checkout, due in part no doubt to theft but also that it took too much manpower to staff the "self" checkout. I think the answer someone floated to me was that the self-checkout wasn't working well.

And you know why? Because it's too difficult for at least half the population to operate. That may be difficult for us, a group of self selected nerds on a blog to accept, but there are many Americans who are intimidated by a computer screen.

How am I (or anyone) going to explain climatology to a person who doesn't have the self-confidence to operate a number pad on a touch screen?

That might sound elitist of me (and maybe it is), but that is the "problem" in a nutshell.

Believe it or not, the self-check out is difficult for me to work. And I've most recently worked as a cashier!!!

Maybe that is why, I'm used to a non-consumer friendly system.

197 Interesting Times  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:53:45pm

re: #191 freetoken

How am I (or anyone) going to explain climatology to a person who doesn't have the self-confidence to operate a number pad on a touch screen?

As I've said before, you do it by relating it to things they can easily understand. Pictures help too.

198 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:54:11pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

How the flying hell are those questionable? They came directly from the Police Department.

Oh right. The lefties are all pissed about it, so they must be wrong. That's basically the way you have been acting for months now. It is getting all sorts of annoying.

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:54:19pm

Going Up ----->

200 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:56:05pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

The most important point is buried at the end of that article...

When the press fails to inform the public accurately bad things happen. Zimmerman may walk, maybe from genuine innocence or from a technicality. The press has spread enough misinformation, conjecture and questionable forensic "science" that the public isn't informed enough to make sense of the case. It's a potential derpfest with very serious consequences.

Exactly. Bad journalism like this can sink a criminal case either by tainting the jury pool or by giving the defendants lawyers ammunition with which to shoot up legitimate expert testimony during the trial.

People here have correctly noted that press coverage was crucial in getting this case the attention it needed. But if those same news organizations are not careful, they may end up ensuring that the case is never properly resolved.

But the TV networks likely won't be careful, because its easier to throw high wattage DERP! than to try to find the truth. Newspapers and news magazines still sometimes care about the truth, but TV news programs are more about the ratings than about the facts.

201 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:56:19pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

I would apply the same criteria to the police station video and the voice analysis of the 9-11 tapes. I'm not even so sure the "stand your ground" laws even apply in this case. The reporting has been shit and the public is dumber for consuming it.

All we can do is wait. If the NOLA PD murder is any example that took almost 7 years from start to finish with sentencing today. So, we wait.

202 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:56:36pm

In one of my rare outings in the car today, I turned on talk radio to hear what the latest outrage du jour is supposed to be. One of our local stations has a new talker, and he seemed to go out of his way to defend creationist/SoCons without actually giving support to creationism. He was taking the usual tack of complaining that scientists were always discovering new things and thus they don't know everything. Then he have an example of, according to him, the brouhaha over Einstein's speed of light limit (which the talker stated inaccurately), without actually referring to the Italian experiment re: neutrinos and the full story.

It was such a classic example of someone parodying themselves. He was the very thing which he accused the "media" of portraying falsely of "conservatives": a political animal who is ignorant of science.

The talker was complaining about the "media" portraying conservatives as being "anti-science", and then he goes on an anti-science rant, full of erroneous assertions.

203 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:57:49pm

re: #198 ProGunLiberal

How the flying hell are those questionable? They came directly from the Police Department.

Oh right. The lefties are all pissed about it, so they must be wrong. That's basically the way you have been acting for months now. It is getting all sorts of annoying.

Because the Sanford PD has engaged in seriously problematic actions in other aspects of this case.

204 ozbloke  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:57:58pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

I would apply the same criteria to the police station video and the voice analysis of the 9-11 tapes. I'm not even so sure the "stand your ground" laws even apply in this case. The reporting has been shit and the public is dumber for consuming it.

So your not sure if any of it is accurate, and that makes the public dumb.

Because with this story just like most other stories, most of us including yourself we only have the media reports to go on, right?

Yet we post.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:58:39pm

re: #194 freetoken

I know there are people who want baggers. I guess it's part of my hermit nature to want to bag my own.

I don't want to see fewer jobs, and that's what the self-serve lines are designed to achieve.

I'll wait in line for a bagger and a checker.

206 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:58:53pm

re: #196 ggt

Maybe that is why, I'm used to a non-consumer friendly system.

You're overtrained!

But.... I bet it'd take you all of 4 minutes to master any self-checkout station.

207 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:58:58pm

re: #202 freetoken

In one of my rare outings in the car today, I turned on talk radio to hear what the latest outrage du jour is supposed to be. One of our local stations has a new talker, and he seemed to go out of his way to defend creationist/SoCons without actually giving support to creationism. He was taking the usual tack of complaining that scientists were always discovering new things and thus they don't know everything. Then he have an example of, according to him, the brouhaha over Einstein's speed of light limit (which the talker stated inaccurately), without actually referring to the Italian experiment re: neutrinos and the full story.

It was such a classic example of someone parodying themselves. He was the very thing which he accused the "media" of portraying falsely of "conservatives": a political animal who is ignorant of science.

The talker was complaining about the "media" portraying conservatives as being "anti-science", and then he goes on an anti-science rant, full of erroneous assertions.

Oh dear. Do we really now have right wing nutcases arguing about "Einstein's speed of light limit"? As if though, wait, let me guess. If it fails "there is a God" kind of angle at play here?

208 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:59:09pm

re: #204 ozbloke

Yet we post.

I derp, therefore I am.

209 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:59:33pm

re: #204 ozbloke

No, you are missing the fact that it is leftists who are upset about this (at least in his mind), and therefore they are wrong.

210 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 8:59:58pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I derp, therefore I am.

Moody Blues?

211 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:00:06pm

re: #207 Gus

No, that wasn't his point. His point was that the recent dust-up over the issue showed that scientists are always discovering new things, so the "conservatives" are right to be skeptical of scientists.

212 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:01:46pm

re: #191 freetoken

Regarding climate change, I feel like I've given up trying to convince the crowds. I feel like few people want to invest the time to understand what is really going on. Those of us with a physical science background have a head start, and because climatology is both intricately connected political concerns as well as fundamentally being inter-disciplinary (depending upon knowledge and skills from nearly all the physical science specialties as well as some of biology) it takes effort to understand the topics involve.

The subject of the scientific paper in that MSNBC piece fundamentally depends upon the reader knowing the difference between causality and correlation, and understanding the multi-parameter nature of the "cause" of global surface temperature changes.

Some of my local stores have eliminated self-checkout, due in part no doubt to theft but also that it took too much manpower to staff the "self" checkout. I think the answer someone floated to me was that the self-checkout wasn't working well.

And you know why? Because it's too difficult for at least half the population to operate. That may be difficult for us, a group of self selected nerds on a blog to accept, but there are many Americans who are intimidated by a computer screen.

How am I (or anyone) going to explain climatology to a person who doesn't have the self-confidence to operate a number pad on a touch screen?

That might sound elitist of me (and maybe it is), but that is the "problem" in a nutshell.

I think that the political aspect is a very big factor that exacerbates and complicates the dynamic you're describing.

There's a fair amount of evidence that in the climate debate, the more information people have and the more scientific background they have, the more likely they are to become more convinced of a perspective that you could pretty much predict based on their social, cultural, and political orientation. This is not inconsistent with evidence related to the dynamics of how people reason in the face of complicated controversies in other areas that have powerful political and social overlap.

213 ozbloke  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:01:59pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I derp, therefore I am.

I think we pick and choose...
Herpdy de derp.

214 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:02:12pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

Funny thing - In Japan all the grocery stores at which I shopped it was automatically assumed that the buyer was responsible for bagging their own. In the supermarkets I never did see a "bagger". At the local mom-and-pop stores the cashier (often the "mom") would bag whatever little item I bought, but that never happened in the larger grocery stores, which were setup at the checkout lanes to optimize throughput (buyers/hour).

215 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:04:45pm

re: #212 Talking Point Detective

Our communications technology and plethora of media and opinion outlets, and "social media", have made us all very much more convinced of whatever our biases inclined us to originally, I suppose.

It's kind of perverted, the whole thing.

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:05:12pm

re: #206 freetoken

You're overtrained!

But... I bet it'd take you all of 4 minutes to master any self-checkout station.

Part of me thinks they should offer a discount if you self-check. Like they used to do with gas. If you pumped your own it was .03 or .05 a gallon less.

If I have more than 3 or 4 items or coupons I go to the wait-your-turn line. Otherwise I check-out myself, usually.

Depends on the day, my mood, and how busy the store is.

217 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:05:18pm

re: #211 freetoken

No, that wasn't his point. His point was that the recent dust-up over the issue showed that scientists are always discovering new things, so the "conservatives" are right to be skeptical of scientists.

Oh. That's dumb too. Scientists are always at each others throat with countering theories, studies, you name it. There are also times when there's a consensus. However, even the consensus varies or displays a spectrum of ideas. For instance, you and I are both liberals. We also agree with the AGW consensus. But we have differing approaches to mitigation. That happens "within" the larger ideological identity of being liberal.

218 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:06:21pm

So yeah. "They're always discovering new things." But sometimes it takes decades. Something forever like in the case of cancer.

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:07:10pm
220 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:07:54pm

re: #191 freetoken

As for self-checkout - I was talking to someone in a store that eliminated them the other day and she said it was because of some kind of glitch where they were losing a lot of money (I didn't get the details). It would be interesting to see some kind of cost benefit analysis of self-checkout. I have seen time after time that businesses fall into a short-term mentality, thinking that they can milk more profits from eliminating employees only to find that they're mistaken.

There's a lot of research that shows that the current obsession with making profits by driving labor costs as low as possible is counterproductive, and that paying employees a decent wage and treating them well is very often more profitable in the long run. It is a really be societal problem, IMO, that has a very significant economic impact and is part of what is driving the trend in CEO compensation that is so completely out of line with real wages for average employees.

221 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:09:10pm

re: #216 ggt

Part of me thinks they should offer a discount if you self-check. Like they used to do with gas. If you pumped your own it was .03 or .05 a gallon less.

If I have more than 3 or 4 items or coupons I go to the wait-your-turn line. Otherwise I check-out myself, usually.

Depends on the day, my mood, and how busy the store is.

If I have only a few items I will use the self-check, but if I have a large order (like I had today, and will have again tomorrow!) then I want someone else to bag it for me!

One of the supermarkets I shop at, doesn't allow carts to be taken out of the loading area, so if I have a very large order I will ask one of the baggers to carry the order to my car. And if I do that, I will tip them. These guys make minimum wage, or even subminimum if it's off the books.

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:09:41pm

Tontite's cuteness (part deaux)

223 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:09:55pm

re: #220 Talking Point Detective

That's something we knew back earlier in the last century. Then the Free-Market Jesus Cargo Cult developed and everything went to shit.

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:10:20pm
225 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:10:40pm
226 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:11:25pm

Last one.

While I normally don't find birds cute, this bright little guy is to me.

227 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:11:37pm

re: #217 Gus

It was just another version of the old creationist mantra of scientists always changing their minds/theories, and thus are untrustworthy.

228 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:11:59pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd be curious to read your take on Peter Beinart. Here's a good interview (and an interview in response to his interview) in you're interested:


[Link: www.npr.org...]

229 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:13:13pm

re: #220 Talking Point Detective

As for self-checkout - I was talking to someone in a store that eliminated them the other day and she said it was because of some kind of glitch where they were losing a lot of money (I didn't get the details)....

I suspect that "glitch" could also called "legs", as in the legs that walk out with the goods without paying for them.

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:13:56pm

OK, one more,

It' needs a caption.

231 ozbloke  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:16:31pm

re: #230 ggt

OK, one more,

It' needs a caption.

I've been killded by dat mouse!

232 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:19:23pm

re: #227 freetoken

It was just another version of the old creationist mantra of scientists always changing their minds/theories, and thus are untrustworthy.

Well. We're talking about a "stock" of people that used to think they could weather any hurricane. There's a start.

233 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:20:00pm

re: #191 freetoken

I think you have to try to tailor the message for the audience. For the deniers who only know the talking points, it takes quick counterpoints more than scientific explanations.

- So every day we pump 100 million barrels of oil from below the surface of the earth and 7 billion people burn it. Where do you propose all the waste heat and CO2 is going if its not going into the air and oceans??

- True, there is a self correcting factor because trees will convert CO2 to Oxygen, but people are also cutting down millions of acres of forests every year so don't rely on that for a self correcting factor.

- Those studies that say more CO2 helps plant life thrive assumes that the temperature stays the same and there is a consistent amount of rainfall. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

and my fave,

- I get it, you deny climate science because you don't want to have to admit to your kids that you really don't give a shit what kind of world your generation leaves them.

234 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:21:31pm

re: #229 freetoken

I suspect that "glitch" could also called "legs", as in the legs that walk out with the goods without paying for them.

Could be, but actually I did ask her about that, and she said that wasn't it. She said something about the machines dispensing money to customers and that they'd just walk out with it. I'm not sure if customers figured out how to scam the system or not.

It was a Wal-Mart, of all places - so the problem must have been big because I would imagine that they are the masters at designing their processes to squeeze out as much labor cost as possible. In effect, the change meant that it took a lot longer to check out than the last time I was in that store (about 1.5 years ago) - something that I'm sure has a big impact on their bottom line. That negative impact plus the increased labor costs must have meant that there was some major problem.

235 Interesting Times  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:24:32pm

re: #233 Mich-again

I think you have to try to tailor the message for the audience. For the deniers who only know the talking points, it takes quick counterpoints more than scientific explanations.

- So every day we pump 100 million barrels of oil from below the surface of the earth and 7 billion people burn it. Where do you propose all the waste heat and CO2 is going if its not going into the air and oceans??

- True, there is a self correcting factor because trees will convert CO2 to Oxygen, but people are also cutting down millions of acres of forests every year so don't rely on that for a self correcting factor.

- Those studies that say more CO2 helps plant life thrive assumes that the temperature stays the same and there is a consistent amount of rainfall. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

and my fave,

- I get it, you deny climate science because you don't want to have to admit to your kids that you really don't give a shit what kind of world your generation leaves them.

Great points. Re the one about CO2 and plant life? Add this to the mix:

When temperatures rise to 104 F, plants stop growing. Then they become a source of CO2 instead of a sink.

236 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:24:53pm

Apparently, Zimmerman's shitstain of a father appeared on Hannity tonight.

Family of assholes. I hope there can be some repercussion against Father Zimmerman for lying out his ass.

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:30:49pm

I'm off!

Have a great one all!

238 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:34:37pm

re: #236 ProGunLiberal

Family of assholes. I hope there can be some repercussion against Father Zimmerman for lying out his ass.

Daddy's been throwing around his influence to cover for his idiot kid's f-ups for years, but this time the dumbass went too far and dad's going to go down with him.

239 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:38:06pm

re: #235 Interesting Times

That linked story was a real buzzkill. Jeesh.

240 Interesting Times  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:44:05pm

re: #239 Mich-again

That linked story was a real buzzkill. Jeesh.

I know. Time to invest in a biotech company that engineers edible cactus :/

241 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:45:36pm

re: #114 jaunte

Richard Land, another conservative who just can't help himself:

"Perhaps the best way to describe Mormonism, perhaps the most charitable way to describe Mormonism, is that it’s a fourth Abrahamic religion, with Joseph Smith playing the role that Muhammad plays in Islam and the Book of Mormon playing the role that the Quran plays in Islam. It’s based upon the Christian faith and the Jewish faith but it goes beyond them and it contradicts them. Islam is not a Christian faith. Mormonism is not a Christian faith.”

On the same token, Christianity is 'based' on the Jewish faith but goes beyond it and contradicts it when and where convenient. Christianity is not a Judaic faith.

So can you please drop the "Judeo-" beard already? The pretense isn't fooling anyone who possesses more than two brain cells.

242 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:50:27pm

re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

So can you please drop the "Judeo-" beard already? The pretense isn't fooling anyone who possesses more than two brain cells.

Erm... that bit was intended to be directed at the pernicious, poligious pretenders, and not Jaunte. In case anyone was wondering.

243 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:50:48pm

re: #234 Talking Point Detective

Yeah, the local Wal-Mart got rid of their self-checkout too.

No doubt these stores would keep the self-checkout if that made them more money, but whether the people are walking out with goods without paying for them, or walking out with cash erroneously dispensed, the bottom line is that self-checkouts leak money from the till.

244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:29:10am

re: #114 jaunte

Richard Land, another conservative who just can't help himself:

His description is pretty correct. Mormonism is a borderline case, so it may or may not belong to Christianity, depending on chosen parameters.

245 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:34:45am

re: #198 ProGunLiberal

How the flying hell are those questionable? They came directly from the Police Department.

The analysis came from the PD? No it didn't.


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