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1 Batman  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:45:26pm

More like Obama vs Reality, am I right? I like how in the video Romney schools Obama hard about what he did and said.

//

2 Ming  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:50:51pm

It's funny that Romney will win the Republican nomination because he lied to the conservative base about who he is. Now, the same conservatives that he lied to will, like puppets on a string, enthusiastically defend Romney's lies about Obama. If Romney becomes president next January, no one, whether liberal or conservative, can possibly predict how he'll actually govern.

Romney is probably used to lying his way into positions of power. I imagine the companies he took over and liquidated never saw it coming either.

What cracks me up is the right wing getting all energized and mobilized for someone they really don't even like.

3 Lidane  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:54:23pm

re: #2 Ming

What cracks me up is the right wing getting all energized and mobilized for someone they really don't even like.

That's because they hate President Obama more. They'll hold their noses and vote for the RINO if it means defeating the current POTUS.

4 Mich-again  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:03:35pm

re: #3 Lidane

I think some people view this whole election process like a tournament in sports. Whatever you did to win the last game means nothing once the next game starts.

5 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:07:21pm

On the latest Romney hire as senior adviser, Ed Gillespie.

Ed Gillespie: The Embedded Lobbyist
New Chairman Brings Corporate Loyalties to Top Job in the GOP

ENRON paid Quinn Gillespie $700,000 in 2001 alone to lobby on the “California energy crisis” and thwart efforts to re-regulate the Western electricity market through price controls. Before its collapse, the company also funneled money to a Gillespie-run a group to buy national television ads promoting the president’s industry-friendly energy plan.

Tags: Romney | Ed Gillespie | ENRON

6 Mich-again  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:10:20pm

When I watch Mitt Romney speak, my first impression is that I would not buy a used car from him. His tone and body language says loud and clear that he doesn't even believe the words he is speaking.

7 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:11:05pm

Mitt's new advisor lobbied for national [individual] mandate

Mitt Romney's new advisor, Ed Gillespie, was a lobbyist for a federal individual mandate two years before President Obama embraced the idea.

In 2007, the Coaltion to Advance Healthcare Reform hired Quinn Gillespie to lobby for its agenda, which included an employer mandate and an individual mandate. As Safway CEO and CAHR founder Steve Hurd put it, "every American should be required to carry health insurance."

The coalition was funded by insurers and large employers looking to offload costs, require people to buy their products, and hurt their competitors...

8 jaunte  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:12:57pm

Some guy at the Washington Post named Aaron Blake vs. reality:

"Democrats are going great-guns to drive a wedge between Republicans (and specifically former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney) and women, using even the thinnest of threads — and that’s what this seems to be — to build a narrative that the GOP is no friend to females."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

9 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:18:55pm

Going back to the last thread, here is what the French did to their POWs:

General George S. Patton commented in his diary "I’m also opposed to sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands (in particular, to France) where many will be starved to death." He also noted "It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles". On 12 October 1945 The New York Herald Tribune reported that the French were starving their POWs, and compared their emaciation to that of those liberated from the Dachau concentration camp.
German prisoners were for example forced to clear minefields in France and the Low Countries.

According to Simon MacKenzie, "callous self-interest and a desire for retribution played a role in the fate" of German prisoners, and he exemplifies by pointing out that sick or otherwise unfit prisoners were forcibly used for labour, and in France and the Low countries this also included work such as highly dangerous mine-clearing; "by September 1945 it was estimated by the French authorities that two thousand prisoners were being maimed and killed each month in accidents"
Some of the 740,000 German prisoners transferred in 1945 by the U.S. for forced labour in France came from the Rheinwiesenlager camps, these forced labourers were already very weak, many weighing barely 50 kilos.

On 13 March 1947 the U.S. made an agreement with the French to the effect that roughly 450,000 German prisoners would be released, at a rate of 20,000 a month. This number included in addition to the prisoners handed over to them by the U.S. also the roughly 200,000 prisoners the French had themselves captured.

In retaliation for acts of resistance French occupation forces expelled more than 25,000 civilians from their homes. Some of these civilians were subsequently forced to clear minefields in Alsace.

And Norway's actions:

In Norway the last available casualty record, from August 29, 1945, shows that by that time a total of 275 German soldiers had been killed while clearing mines, while an additional 392 had been maimed. German protests that forcing POWs to clear mines was against international law, article 32 of the Geneva conventions, were rejected with the assertion that the Germans were not POW's; they were disarmed forces who had surrendered unconditionally ("avvæpnede styrker som hadde overgitt seg betingelsesløst"). Mine clearance reports received by the Allied Forces Head Quarter state: June 21, 1945; 199 dead and 163 wounded Germans; 3 Norwegians and 4 British wounded. The last registration, from August 29, 1945 lists 392 wounded and 275 dead Germans.

10 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:28:12pm

re: #7 Gus

Mitt's new advisor lobbied for national [individual] mandate

Gillespie of course is back pedaling on this and claiming otherwise. We can look further in this press release during his involvement with CAHR:

America's Top Business Leaders and Employers Join Forces to Advance Healthcare Reform

...

CAHR is a working coalition of business leaders and employers committed to solving this problem by advancing a set of five core principles to guide and shape state and federal policies. Specifically, the coalition believes the foundation of any reform must be based on the following:

• Market-Based Healthcare System;
Universal Coverage with Individual Responsibility;
• Financial Assistance for Low-Income Individuals;
• Healthier Behavior and Incentives;
• Equal Tax Treatment.

...

CAHR's approach to healthcare reform centers around taking immediate action at the state and national level to engage with all stakeholders to enact market-based reforms to solve the healthcare crisis. CAHR has brought on board America's leading businesses as well as a team of nationally-recognized professionals, including Jack Quinn and Ed Gillespie, to manage the organization.

...

11 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:29:43pm

re: #10 Gus

Gillespie of course is back pedaling on this and claiming otherwise. We can look further in this press release during his involvement with CAHR:

America's Top Business Leaders and Employers Join Forces to Advance Healthcare Reform

Also see GOP Turns To K Street Veterans To Help Unravel Health Care Law

...

Andres served as Vice Chairman of Public Policy and Research for Dutko Worldwide, where, according to congressional public disclosure forms, he lobbied for insurance giant UnitedHealth Group and for a corporate umbrella organization called the Coalition to Advance Healthcare Reform.

The coalition’s website is now defunct, but you can view an archive of its homepage here and of its membership here.

Ironically, the coalition’s principles match the architecture of the final health care law almost perfectly. According to a 2009 disclosure form filed before the legislation was written, the group

[a]dvocated for reforms consistent with the coalition’s five principles: 1) Market-based healthcare: a paradigm to fix the healthcare delivery system through transparency in healthcare cost and quality and utilization of electronic records and prescriptions; 2) Universal coverage with individual responsibility a system in which all Americans have access to coverage with shared responsibilities among the government, businesses, and individuals; 3) Financial assistance for low-income individuals: a way for low-income participants to be provided financial assistance for coverage rather than healthcare being provided as a free good; 4) Healthier behavior and incentives: a strategy to incorporate full care management for chronic conditions with financial healthy-behavior incentives; 5) Equal tax treatment: a means for individuals to purchase healthcare in the same tax-advantaged way businesses do.

Now Andres will be working to repeal a law that accomplishes precisely these things.

...

12 ReamWorks SKG  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:35:47pm

If I were a person of means running for President, I'd hire a fact-checker to scrutinize my speeches. He certainly shouldn't have missed undeniable facts like "Obama never mentioned the Deficit in the SOTU speech." That's as bad as Santorum saying that California State Universities don't teach American History!

13 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:38:05pm

re: #12 ReamWorks

If I were a person of means running for President, I'd hire a fact-checker to scrutinize my speeches.

I don't think their supporters are interested in that too much.
They just want some sound bites, they can repeat.

14 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:38:16pm

re: #11 Gus

Also see GOP Turns To K Street Veterans To Help Unravel Health Care Law

According to Open Secrets, Quinn Gillespie & Assoc was with CAHR in 2008. Combined with the above press release we can also go back to 2008 at the now defunct website for CAHR where we'll find:

Universal Coverage with Individual Responsibility: Public policy has long mandated that care be provided when needed. We believe this policy should be balanced with a requirement that individuals carry health insurance regardless of their employment status. All Americans should have access to affordable quality healthcare services, with no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. The market should drive these policies with government, businesses and individuals sharing responsibility to ensure affordable healthcare coverage is achieved.

15 Mich-again  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:38:31pm

re: #12 ReamWorks

When you toss out red meat to hyenas they really don't care if its a ribeye steak or pink slime.

16 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:39:28pm

re: #12 ReamWorks

Facts have nothing to do with it.

A well established pattern with humans is that simply by repeating a claim/story people will come to believe it is "true", or at least they will simply accept such claim without objection.

Romney thus just has to find enough magic words to repeat to get the emotional reaction he needs to motivate potential voters to get out in November and actually vote for him.

"Facts" aren't so important in this regard.

17 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:40:28pm

re: #15 Mich-again

When you toss out red meat to hyenas they really don't care if its a ribeye steak or pink slime.

Rib eye may require some chewing, you know, like to mull over.
Pink slime on the other hand...

18 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:46:21pm

re: #12 ReamWorks

His campaign is counting on the average voter being ill informed and gullible. Historically, that's been a pretty safe bet.

However, in this new information age where nothing ever goes away, counting on the ill informed and gullible to swing your way will become less and less of a winning strategy.

I think the GOP in general are setting themselves to be spanked by reality, hard.

19 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:52:41pm

Hell, simply counting on the average person to be ill informed and gullible is becoming less and less of a winning strategy.

20 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:55:55pm

So let's see. Thus far Mitt Romney's new senior adviser was a lobbyist for ENRON and backed lobbied for CAHR -- the individual mandate. What else can there be?

How about Quinn Gillespie & Associates lobbying for Cayman Finance? Also see:

Tax Haven Legislation Likely Won't Include Blacklist

The countries on the list include Malta, which has hired Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal to help gain ratification of a tax treaty that calls for more transparency and reporting of financial transactions. Also on the list: British islands Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man, which hired partner Linda Carlisle of White & Case, and the Cayman Islands. Cayman Finance, formerly the Cayman Islands Financial Services Association, has retained Quinn Gillespie & Associates. The countries have spent more than $800,000 collectively on lobbying.

21 Mich-again  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:56:20pm

re: #16 freetoken

Romney thus just has to find enough magic words to repeat to get the emotional reaction he needs to motivate potential voters to get out in November and actually vote for him.

I agree, but I think credibility is key. Romney does not seem to be convinced of his own words, and I don't think he will be able to create any emotional reaction with the undecided voters. The only emotion in his favor is the Obama hate he pretends isn't there.

22 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:02:27pm

re: #21 Mich-again

Mitt already has no credibility with the SoCons or the Paulian/Cato glibertarians.

All Mitt has going for him is that he fills the bill of ABO.

Question is, will the power of ABO overcome the power of ABR?

23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:03:22pm
24 Mich-again  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:07:18pm

re: #22 freetoken

Question is, will the power of ABO overcome the power of ABR?

I am not familiar with those TLA's. ha

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:07:23pm

re: #22 freetoken

You speak in riddles, deceptive one. OUT WITH IT!!! Or I shall have your forked tongue on my dinner plate before you can blink twice!

/seriously though, what are ABO and ABR?

26 darthstar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:07:34pm

All settled in near Lake Tahoe...three days of ski patrol and I'll only have one more weekend to come up and satisfy my commitment.

27 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:09:22pm

re: #23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

The Heritage Foundation was for it before they were against it?

Mind boggling. You'd think they'd at least have the decency to say "sure we were for it back then but we've since changed our minds." Or even attempt to explain more differences. Instead we get the usual curt denials.

28 Lidane  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:09:39pm

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

/seriously though, what are ABO and ABR?

Anyone But Obama and Anyone But Romney

29 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:15:27pm

re: #27 Gus

Irony. The side bar ad on that page.

re: #28 Lidane

Ah, thanks. Chalk that up to another Behemoth brain fart.

31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:24:47pm

Fucking hell. I've been looking for this clip for a few years now, to no avail.

Bookmarked!!!

32 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:29:11pm

re: #31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Fucking hell. I've been looking for this clip for a few years now, to no avail.

Bookmarked!!!

What kind of predator?

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:33:08pm

re: #32 Gus

Fuck you and your sarcasm! I shall not fall prey to your mind games!!!
/

34 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:34:19pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Fuck you and your sarcasm! I shall not fall prey to your mind games!!!
/

I'm connected with the 4G card and feeling sleepy.

35 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:36:10pm

re: #34 Gus

I'm connected with the 4G card and feeling sleepy.

/ Does sleepy mind?

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:37:15pm

re: #34 Gus

I'm connected with the 4G card and feeling sleepy.

Those are all secret codes words. I'm not falling into your trap.

Actually, the deadly predator is a Leopard Seal, taking pity on a lesser predator in it's environment.

37 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:44:22pm

I still feel very frustrated about the relationship stuff.

I have never met anyone else with my other interests. It's not her fault when she feels differently. If anything, it's my fault for being Autistic and unlovable. I'm just trying force myself to accept that I will be alone, because in all honesty, I have never met anyone else interested in history, architecture, Meteorology, and of course, Geography. Just 2 out of the 4 would be fantastic, and I have found fewer people interested in Meteorology and Geography.

I logically see no out for this. Which is causing a final burnout. Over the last year, because of stuff with my own dad, previous things I wanted to do in life were replaced with just one goal: Having a loving family. Now that this seems impossible, I have absolutely nothing to drive me to do anything.

38 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:50:16pm

I better go to sleep. Later.

39 Usually refered to as anyways  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:55:22pm

re: #37 ProGunLiberal

I am not in anyway qualified to answer you, except I have been married for a long time.

I suggest that having the same specific interests don't seem to me to be as important as you may seem.
After all, interests that you had 10 years ago are different than you have today, and may change in 10 years time.
What has been important to me, are the things you both value most.
Because if you both hold similar 'life values', and perhaps 'goals', then as you grow older, you grow closer, because you are both working towards common goals and life values.

Take it for what it's worth.

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:56:57pm

re: #37 ProGunLiberal

I still feel very frustrated about the relationship stuff.

Drink.

I logically see no out for this.

Drink more.

41 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:59:21pm

re: #40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I'm Muslim.

And even if I wasn't, I wouldn't. My family has a history of people being violent when they drink. Especially on my Dad's side.

42 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 12:06:23am

re: #41 ProGunLiberal

I'm Muslim.

I'm Drunk. What's your point?
/

Get with it, dude. You do not occupy a narrow and unique point in time under narrow and unique circumstances. What you seem to describe is something everyone has had to deal with. In high school.

I that comes off as sounding harsh... sometimes a splash of cold water is the best remedy to shock one out of a stupor.

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 12:46:46am

There once was a smitten Behemoth,
And a woman He wanted to be with,

He opened His heart,
It was met with a dart,

And move on to the next woman He did-uth.

44 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 12:49:30am

re: #37 ProGunLiberal

....I have absolutely nothing to drive me to do anything.

Sounds bleak.

We each get to live our own lives - no one can live yours, though you will discover people are during your life who want to live vicariously through you (parents are often the first at this.)

Frankly, I've discovered that women are indeed attracted to guys who are self confident and/or have money. The first often comes with the latter, but not always. Not to make women sound like mindless gold-diggers - I'm just relaying my own experience.

So, your own self-doubt is probably your worst enemy.

And, I agree with Ozbloke in that one's interests often change, or at least they can go dormant for long periods.

Go, do things that you love. Follow your heart. Other people will be able to tell if you are happy or not, and that will be conveyed quite clearly to a possible mate.

45 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 12:50:08am

re: #44 freetoken

pimf "... all during..."

46 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 1:09:51am

re: #31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Fucking hell. I've been looking for this clip for a few years now, to no avail.

Bookmarked!!!

Best comment ever?

Eat the fucking penguins you dick.

47 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 1:10:50am
48 researchok  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 1:16:43am

Morning, all

49 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 1:40:24am
When DeLaSalle senior Matt Bliss heard rumors that the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis planned to hold a mandatory school assembly to talk about marriage, and potentially gay marriage, he remembers thinking, "This is not going to end well."

He was right.

...

A priest and a volunteer couple presented the information. When someone asked a question about two men being able to have a quality, committed relationship, the couple compared their love to bestiality, Bliss said.

"Most people got really upset," said Bliss. "And comments about adopted kids, I found those to be really offensive. There were at least four kids there who are adopted."

Hannah, who is adopted, said one of the presenters said that adopted kids were "sociologically unstable." She called the comments "hurtful" and comparisons between gay love and bestiality upsetting.

"My friend said, 'You didn't just compare people to animals, did you?'" said Hannah. "I think everyone has a right to their opinion, and I don't judge them on it. But we don't force people to sit down so we can tell them their opinion is wrong."

50 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:08:34am

re: #49 goddamnedfrank

Comparing homosexual relationships to bestiality = unfortunate

All the kids having the temerity to respond = they're angry

Those kids seem to be the adults.

51 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:12:37am

re: #50 Kronocide

Absofreakinglutely.

52 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:17:13am

That just warms the heart, rec'd that one.

53 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:20:33am

re: #49 goddamnedfrank

"A priest and a volunteer couple presented the information. When someone asked a question about two men being able to have a quality, committed relationship, the couple compared their love to bestiality, Bliss said."

It would be helpful to know exactly what was about bestiality.

54 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:24:32am

re: #53 EdDantes

"A priest and a volunteer couple presented the information. When someone asked a question about two men being able to have a quality, committed relationship, the couple compared their love to bestiality, Bliss said."

It would be helpful to know exactly what was about bestiality.

Their meaning the hypothetical two men. Part of reading comprehension in a relayed story is context and the reaction of the audience Ed, reliance on strict literalism will only get you so far.

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:26:38am

re: #2 Ming

What cracks me up is the right wing getting all energized and mobilized for someone they really don't even like.

A lot of them won't, especially among the base, who feel that they had Romney foisted on them by the party establishment.

56 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:28:09am

re: #55 Expand Your Ground

A lot of them won't, especially among the base, who feel that they had Romney foisted on them by the party establishment.

Usually the GOP then tries to whip up excitement by getting things on the ballot like referendums on gay marriage, etc., but I'm not sure how well that'll work this go-round.

The problem with women is going to really, really hurt them. They can't really climb out of that without showing some policy for women that's helpful, and frankly, they don't have one.

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:28:55am

re: #17 ozbloke

Rib eye may require some chewing, you know, like to mull over.
Pink slime on the other hand...

Political red meat is allowed to contain up to 15% rib-eye...

58 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:29:53am

Santorum = red meat
Romney = pink slime

or.....

Naw, won't go there.

59 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:36:21am

re: #54 goddamnedfrank

I inadvertently left out a word in my comment. This is what I meant to say:
"It would be helpful to know exactly what was said about bestiality."

60 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:39:54am

I've been wondering at what point Tea Party populism will be considered the establishment. As soon as Mitt loses?

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:44:19am

re: #60 Kronocide

I've been wondering at what point Tea Party populism will be considered the establishment. As soon as Mitt loses?

A good point. Originally, the Tey Party were "astroturfed", funded and manipulated by the establishement, but now the tables have turned.

But to really seize and retain power , the Tea Party will have to learn to spell first...

62 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:46:28am

re: #59 EdDantes

I inadvertently left out a word in my comment. This is what I meant to say:
"It would be helpful to know exactly what was said about bestiality."

How helpful would it be really? I'm trying to find a way in which comparing gay love to human on animal intercourse might be a value neutral or positive statement, but it's just not coming to me.

63 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:52:17am

re: #49 goddamnedfrank

Jim Accurso, spokesman for the archdiocese, said most of the presentation went fine. But during a question-and-answer session, a presenter used "an unfortunate example" to answer the question and made students upset.

I wonder what a "fortunate" example would have been?

64 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:52:45am

Some of the best movie music:

65 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:53:07am

re: #62 goddamnedfrank

How helpful would it be really? I'm trying to find a way in which comparing gay love to human on animal intercourse might be a value neutral or positive statement, but it's just not coming to me.

It would be very helpful to me. There is sometimes a gulf between what is said and what the interpretation is. I don't need an interpretation of words that I have not heard nor have I read.

66 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:58:02am

re: #65 EdDantes

It would be very helpful to me. There is sometimes a gulf between what is said and what the interpretation is. I don't need an interpretation of words that I have not heard nor have I read.

To true fundamentalists, they are equal in that they are both an ab(d)omination unto the Lord and should be forbidden by law. Since these people's interpretation of Divine Law should guide and shape our civil law.

That is what led to Rick Santorum's famous comments (the ones that led to his re-branding as a type of brown fluid) and what is behind the thinking all those who see gay marriage, abortion and even contraception as things that threaten to ruin America's unique standing with God.

67 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:01:53am

re: #56 Obdicut

Sadly, to me, the GOP has nothing for a changing America. For good or ill America has changed drastically over the years in the social sector. Gay marriage will be the law of the land; transgender rights will be recognized. The conservatives worst nightmares will come true.
Although I am in agreement with most the the conservatives positions (and I'm still a conservative) " I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

68 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:02:56am

And here you all probably thought I was kidding downstairs about Onanism:

TN Senate approves abstinence bill that warns against 'gateway sexual activity'

[....]

The Tennessee Senate voted 28-1 to amend the state’s sex ed curriculum by adding warnings against “gateway sexual activity.” Senate Bill 3310 does not explicitly define what those activities are, but it comes in response to controversies in Nashville and Knox County schools over instruction given to high school students that mentioned alternatives to sexual intercourse.

“ ‘Abstinence’ means from all of these activities, and we want to promote that,” said state Sen. Jack Johnson, R-Franklin, the bill’s sponsor. “What we do want to communicate to the kids is that the best choice is abstinence.”

[...]

69 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:05:07am

re: #66 Expand Your Ground

Thanks. I just asked what the bestiality comment was.

70 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:06:17am

re: #67 EdDantes

And what do you think about gay marriage and transgendered people having rights?

71 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:11:38am

re: #70 Obdicut

And what do you think about gay marriage and transgendered people having rights?

If my #67 was not enough, I think the gay marriage and transgendered have equal rights as can be inferred from the constitution. Anyone who has a different opinion will have to argue before the Supreme court and, I venture, they will lose.

72 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:12:50am
The problem is that people are deathly afraid of psychology, and never more so than when it is applied to political beliefs. Political journalists, in particular, almost uniformly avoid this kind of approach. They try to remain on the surface of things, telling endless stories of horse races and rivalries, strategies and interests, and key "turning points." All of which are, of course, real. And conveniently, by sticking with them you never have to take the dangerous journey into anybody's head.

Chris Mooney at Mother Jones

73 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:13:11am

re: #71 EdDantes

Well, when you put in 'for good or ill', it does make it hard to figure out what you personally think, you see.

And when you say that you're a conservative, and then define gay marriage and transsexual rights as the conservatives worst nightmare, you don't do yourself any favors, either.

74 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:21:25am

Comment on Chris Mooney excerpt from above link:

The government should absolutely endorse one world-view over another when science has proven the former to be true. The government endorses the law of universal gravitation, for example, by hiring engineers that are trained in basic physics. It endorses the theory of evolution by requiring schoolchildren to be vaccinated. It should endorse the theory of anthropogenic global warming by taking action to attach a price to carbon so that the free market can incentivise technologies and behavioural changes to tackle the problem.

Your private property proposal might work for local pollutants such as particulates and SO4, but climate change is a global aggregate phenomenon. Who is a peasant farmer in Bangladesh supposed to sue if global warming caused primarily by industry in the wealthy countries floods his land? If climate science is correct on this (which it is), then I'm afraid that your libertarian ideology is going to have to either make a few compromises or endorse a course of action that will lead to global disaster. The same is true of progressives, who need to give some serious thought to things like nuclear power and genetically modified crops in light of this new challenge. The bottom line is that the laws of nature don't care about your personal freedom.

75 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:24:02am

re: #73 Obdicut

Well, when you put in 'for good or ill', it does make it hard to figure out what you personally think, you see.

And when you say that you're a conservative, and then define gay marriage and transsexual rights as the conservatives worst nightmare, you don't do yourself any favors, either.

Perhaps I should have said the conservative establishment.
I think marriage is between one man and one woman. But I do understand that whatever personal Victorian views I have are not operative in the 21st. century

76 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:26:31am

Marriage is between one man and one woman = I want marriage to be between one man and one woman

77 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:27:24am

re: #74 Kronocide

"Libertarian ideology" is notably weak on being able to deal with problems about the "commons".

And, one thing I don't like about Mooney can be found in this sentence:

The same is true of progressives, who need to give some serious thought to things like nuclear power and genetically modified crops in light of this new challenge.

He has a tendency to container-ize views. Perhaps he feels he needs to do this in order to engage the mass media and popular outlets, but it does a dis-service to the real problem.

The real problem with Republicans isn't that they are "anti-science", though many (but not all) are indeed proponents of anti-scientific views. No, the real problem with the contemporary Republican party is that the small group of wealthy and highly powerful insiders so callously use the ignorance insecurity of their atavistic masses to bring about changes in policies and laws to make the powerful insiders even richer and more powerful.

78 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:30:35am

re: #76 Kronocide

Yes

79 EdDantes  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:36:58am

Good night, all.

80 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:42:57am

Recognizing that one's personal views cannot be supported logically and that they stand at odds with a modern understanding of Constitutional equality is something I guess. However holding onto those view anyway, being willing to vote in support of them long after one has abandoned any and all attempts at rhetorical defense strikes me as placing identity ahead of integrity. In effect it's saying that there's a purposelessness to introspection, when in fact introspection and the empathy it engenders are themselves the root causes of positive societal evolution.

81 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:45:35am

re: #77 freetoken

That quote is from a line in the Comments section on Mooney's essay, not from Mooney himself. But it might be something Mooney would say.

I agree that the atavistic masses are being duped into supporting policies that benefit the few. That really is the bottom line.

The rationale causing the atavism is what Mooney is focused on, the specifics of which are interesting as I had some myself.

82 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:49:40am

re: #76 Kronocide

Marriage is between one man and one woman = I want marriage to be between one man and one woman

There is a lot of addled thinking in confusing the religious sacrament of Holy Matrimony and the civil institution of marriage.

if a church wishes to restrict its definition Holy Matrimony "to one man + one woman", then it may. But the civil institution of marriage is, in the opinion of most Americans today, not subject to discrimination, it can exist between any two adults.

83 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:56:54am

re: #81 Kronocide

Ok, well, then, I take back that part of my statement.

However, I have read (and heard) enough of Mooney to stick by my initial assessment that he is stuck on containerizing the views of groups. By that I mean he fixes the views in time and space too much, whereas I think things are much more in flux. For example, it wasn't so long ago that the Democratic party was the one with the anti-creationism gang. These things change with time, as groups reassemble themselves to their liking.

I also believe, very much so, that humans universally are "anti-scientific" in their views of much of life. The Scientific Method as it has come to be known hasn't affect the choices and thoughts of most people about most things. I can put together a litany of lists - from blood-type fallacies in the Far East to all the Abrahamic religions to shamanism to those who think they have the inside track on playing the lottery.

Hard core rationalism is an aberration, historically and socially, and I wonder if Mooney would agree with that or not (I suspect so.) I suspect that the contemporary society in which Mooney partakes the most - the highly educated, well paid, urban living professionals of his comrades - would like it to be true that rationalism and modernism will be successful in taking over society from the forces of mysticism, but I am much less sure that will happen.

84 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:58:28am

re: #83 freetoken

pimf "For example, it wasn't so long ago that the Democratic party was the one with the anti-science creationism gang.

85 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:00:00am

re: #75 EdDantes

Perhaps I should have said the conservative establishment.
I think marriage is between one man and one woman.

But it's demonstrably not. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean 'is supposed to be'?

86 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:00:09am

re: #80 goddamnedfrank

Recognizing that one's personal views cannot be supported logically and that they stand at odds with a modern understanding of Constitutional equality is something I guess. However holding onto those view anyway, being willing to vote in support of them long after one has abandoned any and all attempts at rhetorical defense strikes me as placing identity ahead of integrity. In effect it's saying that there's a purposelessness to introspection, when in fact introspection and the empathy it engenders are themselves the root causes of positive societal evolution.

I've been guilty of that. Take gay marriage/military: I was 'soft' against it, but not on religious grounds, because I was self identified conservative.

After taking some time to ask what I really had against them, or why was it really bad for society, I was coming up short. Once the military came out and said 'we got this' then I was done (I had previously thought homosexuality should be managed in the military).

So I cut Ed a little slack. I may have not been as vested in my beliefs and don't have any influence from the institution of faith anchoring me.

87 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:00:13am

It does not help that our schools are failing to teach what science is and how it works: how a hypothesis is confirmed by objective facts and becomes a theory.

Yes, of course "Evolution is just a theory". But a lot of these people do not know what that statement means. It means that it is a hypothesis supported by objective observations from nearly every branch of science.

88 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:04:18am

re: #87 Expand Your Ground

Evolution is actually a demonstrable effect. The theory is how evolution actually operates, which is a very well-supported theory.

That species adapt and change over time is just objective reality.

89 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:05:02am

It's important to remember that evolution and genetics were discovered independently, and were brought together in the Modern Synthesis.

90 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:05:32am

re: #88 Obdicut

Evolution is actually a demonstrable effect. The theory is how evolution actually operates, which is a very well-supported theory.

That species adapt and change over time is just objective reality.

Okay. I meant The Theory of Evolution Through natural Selection. Even creationists will admit that God "evolves" species over time.

91 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:06:20am

Of course, what can you do when your religious beliefs compel you to reject objective reality?

92 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:06:27am

re: #83 freetoken

Mooney does seem to MBF a little bit, methinks to soften the blow and make it more palatable. It's pretty hefty stuff.

He probably does think rationality will win over mysticism in the long run. But I'm more inclined to your outlook.

Tweet from the Dalai Lama a short while ago:

93 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:07:34am

re: #90 Expand Your Ground

Actually, the Young Earth Creationists don't even do that.

94 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:09:16am

re: #93 Obdicut

Actually, the Young Earth Creationists don't even do that.

If your religion compels you to interpret your scriptures literally, then you have no choice but to reject objective reality, as the scriptures often contradict themselves.

95 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:12:19am

re: #92 Kronocide

As the comments at that Mother Jones article shows, the MJ crowd itself gets mired down in rather useless dead ends arguing about this or that particular matter. And many of the commenters don't seem particularly well versed in the subject matter at hand (e.g., relativity, climatology, evolution, etc.)

Mooney, while courageous to take on the willful ignorance our political operatives love to manipulate, cannot himself escape the career ladder he is trying to build for himself, as a spokesman for science versus a political society that cares only about "sides" or "parties". He is rather clearly trying to appeal to a Mother Jones type of customer base.

It is impossible to not be part of the problem. Any engagement in the political struggle will make one a partisan.

96 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:19:19am

re: #95 freetoken

It is impossible to not be part of the problem. Any engagement in the political struggle will make one a partisan.

Remember how Al Gore thought he could step outside of politics and become a "non partisan" advocate of AGW? In doing so , he made it even more partisan.

97 freetoken  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:23:20am

re: #96 Expand Your Ground

Speaking of which...

Sure to push buttons:

Nasa scientist: climate change is a moral issue on a par with slavery

Averting the worst consequences of human-induced climate change is a "great moral issue" on a par with slavery, according to the leading Nasa climate scientist Prof Jim Hansen.

He argues that storing up expensive and destructive consequences for society in future is an "injustice of one generation to others".

Hansen, who will next Tuesday be awarded the prestigious Edinburgh Medal for his contribution to science, will also in his acceptance speech call for a worldwide tax on all carbon emissions.

In his lecture, Hansen will argue that the challenge facing future generations from climate change is so urgent that a flat-rate global tax is needed to force immediate cuts in fossil fuel use. Ahead of receiving the award – which has previously been given to Sir David Attenborough, the ecologist James Lovelock, and the economist Amartya Sen – Hansen told the Guardian that the latest climate models had shown the planet was on the brink of an emergency. He said humanity faces repeated natural disasters from extreme weather events which would affect large areas of the planet.

[...]

Good luck with that. We can't even get taxes raised to pay for water works or old folk homes. We'll never do a global carbon tax.

Hansen, for as much as I respect and even like him, is way out of his field when he is talking about economics and politics. There are no global taxes simply because there are no global tax collectors. There are no global tax collectors because there is no global treasury. There is no global treasury because there is no global government.

And there is no global government because we all can't live together peacefully.

98 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:32:15am

re: #97 freetoken

We don't. Doesn't mean we can't.

99 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 4:51:32am

re: #94 Expand Your Ground

If your religion compels you to interpret your scriptures literally, then you have no choice but to reject objective reality, as the scriptures often contradict themselves.

What you do is convert statistical confidence into 'doubt'. Then elevate 'doubt' to 'controversy'. Then 'teach the controversy'. Problem solved.

100 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:08:57am

re: #99 Decatur Deb

What you do is convert statistical confidence into 'doubt'. Then elevate 'doubt' to 'controversy'. Then 'teach the controversy'. Problem solved.

There was a big blowup over an article in the Guardian when a scientist asserted that there was no "statistically wsignificant" global warming in the 1980's.

The newspaper made a big scandal of it ("Scientist admits there was no global warming in the 1980's), but what the scientist meant by "statistically insignificant" meant that the data only allowed a 95% certainty, which is below the standard for "statistically significant". The scientis went on to explain that by expanding the period to include the 1990's, the warming trend was 99% certain, which meets the criterion.

But you see, science allows for objectivity and uncertainty. Religious belief does not. So they will always find a controvery anywhere their beliefs are questioned.

101 Tigger2005  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:10:59am
General George S. Patton commented in his diary "I’m also opposed to sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands (in particular, to France) where many will be starved to death." He also noted "It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles".

Patton is beloved by many on the Right for his gung-ho attitude and blitzkrieg approach to warfare...a real red-blooded 'merican if you will. Yet even he was infinitely more thoughtful, insightful, and familiar with history than anyone on the Right today.

102 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:23:37am

Off to Frankfurt for the weekend.

Happy Easter.

Христос Воскреснет!

Note to Sergey: I know that the Russian Easter greeting is "Христос Воскрес" - "Christ is risen", but since this is still Good Friday, I have used the future tense, "Christ will have risen"

At least we hope so...

103 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:24:16am

re: #102 Expand Your Ground

Christ is really nasty in the morning before he changes the water into coffee.

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:34:58am

re: #102 Expand Your Ground

Note to Sergey: I know that the Russian Easter greeting is "Христос Воскрес" - "Christ is risen", but since this is still Good Friday, I have used the future tense, "Christ will have risen"

At least we hope so...

*withdrawing claws*

OK, you're off the hook for now.

///

105 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:36:02am

I'm not judging this ad for effectiveness, maybe it's supereffective. But basically, they make it a he said/he said situation.

106 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 5:46:56am

Good Friday music:

107 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:00:22am

I've started to notice more and more fake negative reviews on Yelp, google, menupages, etc. There's a pattern of them. One of the schticks is claiming that the place is entirely run by Mexicans who speak no English and are rude, disrespectful, and leer. The funny part was the first time I saw this was for a Vietnamese coffee shop. The next time was for a bakery where, yeah, the guys are Mexican, but they're solemn, speak perfect English, and have better manners than Jeeves. The language in the two reviews was nearly exactly the same, just minor details shifted around.

Another one I've seen is this repeated story of the cashier dropping the change and refusing to make eye contact. The racial element here is brought in by mentioning things like the woman's 'headscarf', 'long fingernails', and 'big gold hoop earrings'.

I'm wondering what the impetus for these is, whether it's some asshole racist or racists, whether it's scammers paid to give bad reviews for whatever reason, or what.

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:07:33am

Allegedly in Lviv some schoolchildren paint eggs with colors and symbols of Waffen-SS Division Galizien:

[Link: www.segodnya.ua...]

109 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:12:10am

re: #108 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Hope it's not true.

110 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:14:13am

re: #107 Obdicut

I've started to notice more and more fake negative reviews on Yelp, google, menupages, etc. There's a pattern of them. One of the schticks is claiming that the place is entirely run by Mexicans who speak no English and are rude, disrespectful, and leer. The funny part was the first time I saw this was for a Vietnamese coffee shop. The next time was for a bakery where, yeah, the guys are Mexican, but they're solemn, speak perfect English, and have better manners than Jeeves. The language in the two reviews was nearly exactly the same, just minor details shifted around.

Another one I've seen is this repeated story of the cashier dropping the change and refusing to make eye contact. The racial element here is brought in by mentioning things like the woman's 'headscarf', 'long fingernails', and 'big gold hoop earrings'.

I'm wondering what the impetus for these is, whether it's some asshole racist or racists, whether it's scammers paid to give bad reviews for whatever reason, or what.

I'm not sure if I could dig up the article, but there's already been Yelp reviewers trying to extort stuff from business owners.

111 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:16:34am

re: #110 The Ghost of a Flea

I'm not sure if I could dig up the article, but there's already been Yelp reviewers trying to extort stuff from business owners.

Yeah, and I've had almost all my good reviews on Yelp flagged and hidden; I think Yelp is complicit in this crap.

112 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:16:47am

re: #108 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Allegedly in Lviv some schoolchildren paint eggs with colors and symbols of Waffen-SS Division Galizien:

[Link: www.segodnya.ua...]

I'd want to see the eggs. The colors and symbolism on the helmet are very close to Swedish heraldry. Is there an historical link between either the unit or Sweden and the city?

113 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:21:35am

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Could be a non-story--Coat of Arms of Lviv:

Image: File:Lviv-modern-coat-of-arms2.png

114 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:22:38am

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Um, no. Use google translate.

115 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:22:58am

re: #110 The Ghost of a Flea

Here's the review used in another variation:

I stopped into ***** to grab a quick breakfast and a coffee. Everyone behind the counter was speaking spanish and as I looked at the menu boards, they just stared at me instead of asking if I needed help. Since it seemed clear that I was not to order from them, I stepped up to the register and started to order. The girl raised her eyebrow at me and said "You order over there?" Like I was retarded. I apologized and headed back to the counter but not before she blatantly rolled her eyes at me. I ordered (with some difficulty since I couldn't understand what the guy was saying), then went back to Hostile Cashier Girl and then saw that I was just short of the $8 card minimum and I had no cash. Apparently I was delusional to hope she'd give me a break - she rolled her eyes again (this time to my face) and pointed out the card minimum. Rather than buying a bottle of water to push myself over, I told her to forget it, walked out and around the block to argo tea where I was happy to pay twice as much for essentially the same thing. I'm usually pretty tolerant of bad or indifferent service.

116 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:24:59am

re: #114 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

What does the last bit mean?

It translates as:

Recall recently in Lviv became a taxi ride to the checkered SS "Galicia", and three years ago in the city hung posters with the symbol of division.

Do you know what posters these were?

117 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:25:04am

re: #114 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Um, no. Use google translate.

Not in my skill set.

118 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:26:33am

Bottom comments are rubbish this morning. Where's the cauldron of spite gone? Is the librul troll on vacation or something?

119 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:26:36am

This is good. Shows you how full of crap Romney really is when it comes to this president.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:28:17am

re: #116 Obdicut

[Link: www.lenta.ru...]

121 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:30:02am

re: #120 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

So mysteriously nobody knows who paid for those to be put up, and the city officials are playing dumb?

122 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:30:33am

Cue the gnashing of wingnut teeth:

Reuters: Employment gains slow, jobless rate drops

It's all a scam! The real unemployment numbers are way higher! America's falling apart! Nobama!!!

123 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:30:49am

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Could be a non-story--Coat of Arms of Lviv:

Image: File:Lviv-modern-coat-of-arms2.png

Another try at the Lviv arms:

Image: Lviv-modern-coat-of-arms2.png

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:31:30am

re: #121 Obdicut

Also
[Link: zik.ua...]

125 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:33:09am

re: #124 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I'm guessing they're not looking to encourage Jews to vacation there.

Sheesh. Everything old is new again.

126 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:34:43am

And children displaying racism means parents indoctrinating them with this sick shit.

Thoughts and ideas of evil and prejudice. Yay.

127 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:38:43am

re: #31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Fucking hell. I've been looking for this clip for a few years now, to no avail.

Bookmarked!!!

OMG the leopard seal fell in love! She totally wanted to marry that Nat Geo guy!

128 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:40:31am

re: #124 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Also
[Link: zik.ua...]

Ne ponimayu pa-russki? Shto govorit?

129 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:42:32am

re: #126 Obdicut

And children displaying racism means parents indoctrinating them with this sick shit.

Thoughts and ideas of evil and prejudice. Yay.

What's particularly problematic for these countries between Germany and Russia* is that the notion of patriotism and self-defense is pretty much inextricable from the ideologies that were (to some extent) imposed by the regimes that conquered them, either via collusion or opposition. Which is not to say that racism or prejudice is excusable, just that it receives a different kind of treatment as a result.

* Quite interested in reading Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands" at some point.

130 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:43:02am

re: #126 Obdicut

The rationale is of course not that it was Waffen-SS but that they were Ukrainians battling against Bolsheviks. On the other hand, I would assign a high probability that those who celebrate Galichina are also antisemitic, just because this is a traditional element of West Ukrainian nationalism. Oleg Tyahnibok, who also promotes Galichina, is certainly a hardcore antisemite.

The question then is how widespread are these views. I have no data. Could be a noisy minority.

131 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:43:33am

re: #108 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Allegedly in Lviv some schoolchildren paint eggs with colors and symbols of Waffen-SS Division Galizien:

[Link: www.segodnya.ua...]

That standing lion looks like the Peugeot logo.

132 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:44:06am

re: #129 iossarian

The opening lines of the national anthem of Poland is best translated as "Poland is Not Yet Lost".

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:45:25am

re: #128 Learned Mother of Zion

That's Ukrainian ;) SBU guy saying that these posters are not illegal.re: #131 Learned Mother of Zion

That standing lion looks like the Peugeot logo.

I guess it could be a non-story then ///

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:46:20am

re: #132 Obdicut

The opening lines of the national anthem of Poland is best translated as "Poland is Not Yet Lost".

So are the opening lines of the Ukrainian anthem (with "Ukraine" instead of "Poland").

135 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:46:50am

re: #133 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

That's Ukrainian ;) SBU guy saying that these posters are not illegal.re: #131 Learned Mother of Zion

I guess it could be a non-story then ///

Why? What does the Peugeot logo have to do with anti-Semitism?

136 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:47:10am

re: #132 Obdicut

The opening lines of the national anthem of Poland is best translated as "Poland is Not Yet Lost".

Now there's a real morale-booster!

"Don't give up just yet, lads!"

137 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:47:13am

Let's boycott Peugeot.//

138 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:50:02am

re: #134 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

So are the opening lines of the Ukrainian anthem (with "Ukraine" instead of "Poland").

I didn't know that. How are Ukranian-Polish relations?

139 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:50:57am

re: #138 Obdicut

I didn't know that. How are Ukranian-Polish relations?

I'll put this question into the queue and deal with it right after explaining the theory of relativity in the next comment. /// sorry couldn't resist ;)

140 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:51:19am

re: #136 iossarian

Now there's a real morale-booster!

"Don't give up just yet, lads!"

Could be worse--The only song I've ever heard about Greenland:

"Oh, Greenland is a dreadful place,
A land that's never green,
Where there's ice and snow, and the whalefishes blow,
And the daylight's seldom seen, brave boys,
And the daylight's seldom seen."

141 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:52:45am

re: #140 Decatur Deb

The Danish National Anthem is pretty sweet:

142 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:52:52am

re: #130 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

The rationale is of course not that it was Waffen-SS but that they were Ukrainians battling against Bolsheviks.

For the record, this is why I am always uncomfortable with any kind of flag-waving, no matter how benign. At some level, there's always an "us-vs-them" mentality at the root of it, and defining "them" as evil wartime opponents never totally obscures the fact that "them" also includes people at home who aren't quite 100% the same as "us".

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:53:11am
Ukraine has not yet perished,
The glory and the freedom!
Still upon us brave brothers,
Fate shall smile!
Our enemies will vanish
Like dew in the sun;
We too shall rule
In our country.

---

Poland has not yet died,
So long as we still live.
What the alien power has seized from us,
We shall recapture with a sabre.

144 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:53:21am

Replaced the above video with ahigher quality one.

145 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:59:10am

re: #142 iossarian

I supported the Orange Revolution, but I knew from the start that the alliance with ultranationalists was gonna be a problem. And can't say I minded Yushchenko too much, but he certainly shouldn't have made the Nazi collaborator Roman Shukhevych an official "Hero of Ukraine".

I mean, it's all too tempting to look at the official OUN program and see only good:

Opposition to all forms of totalitarian government
Construction of a democratic state system in Ukraine
Guaranteed right for self determination against empire and imperialism.

But the devil is in the details.

146 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:00:32am

And also, sadly dead far too soon:

147 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:02:33am

re: #140 Decatur Deb

Could be worse--The only song I've ever heard about Greenland:

"Oh, Greenland is a dreadful place,
A land that's never green,
Where there's ice and snow, and the whalefishes blow,
And the daylight's seldom seen, brave boys,
And the daylight's seldom seen."

Vikings named it "Greenland" to entice their enemies to invade it, while calling their own beautiful, green country "Iceland."

148 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:04:29am

re: #147 Learned Mother of Zion

Vikings named it "Greenland" to entice their enemies to invade it, while calling their own beautiful, green country "Iceland."

I heard it was just a real estate prospectus from Leif the Lucky LLC.

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:08:05am

re: #143 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I read that the author of the Ukrainian anthem was influenced by the Polish one, Mazurek Dabrowskiego ("Dab" pronounced as "Domb"). There's yet another song based on it: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] and also has a similar opening motif:

Hey, Slavs, it still lives
the word (spirit) of our grandfathers
As long as the heart of their sons
beats for our nation!

150 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:13:33am

re: #145 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

[Link: www1.yadvashem.org...]

During the course of the President’s visit, Chairman of the Yad Vashem Council Joseph (Tommy) Lapid protested the recent honor granted by President Yuschenko to Roman Shukhevych, a man who was involved in the murder of Jews during the Holocaust. "In a terrible pogrom the Nightingale Battalion of the Ukrainian legion participated in the murder of 4,000 Jews from Lvov between June 30-July 3, 1941. The Ukrainian commander of the battalion at that time was Roman Shukhevych, a Ukrainian nationalist. The units he commanded, supposedly fighting for Ukrainian independence, comitted large scale murder during the war. He was a war criminal."

At the conclusion of the visit, the President presented Shalev with a rock and soil from Babi Yar, as well as with a prayer book from a Jewish man in Berdichiv on which he had recorded the names of his family who was murdered in the Holocaust. Shalev presented President Yuschenko with ITS documents from the Yad Vashem Archive relating to his father, Andrej Juschtschenko’s time in German captivity in 1944-45. Andrej Juschtschenko was brought to Flossenberg on December 1, 1944. The documents Shalev presented include the personal form of the prisoner in the Flossenberg concentration camp, in Germany, as well as the Flossenberg registry of prisoners by alphabet, date of arrival and list of survivors, on which Andrej Juschtschenko appears.

Yuschenko toured the Holocaust History Museum, visited the Holocaust Art Museum, held a wreath laying ceremony in the Hall of Remembrance and visited the Children’s Memorial. He expressed his identification with the victims, and emphasized the importance of remembrance, and dialogue between nations.

Complicated ;)

151 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:14:00am

re: #149 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I read that the author of the Ukrainian anthem was influenced by the Polish one, Mazurek Dabrowskiego ("Dab" pronounced as "Domb"). There's yet another song based on it: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] and also has a similar opening motif:

Scottish equivalent from 1320:

"..for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

152 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:22:43am

re: #151 Decatur Deb

It always creeps me out to hear kids sing the La Marseillaise.

153 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:25:03am

Yushchenko's father BTW was also an Auschwitz inmate. And a few years ago there were rumors, articles and a book claiming that he actually had been a collaborator, though I can't say at this moment if this can be substantiated objectively. Certainly interesting how close the WWII still can be.

154 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:25:53am

Joooooos!
Egypt: Amr Moussa's 'Jewish connection' revealed

Presidential campaign heating up as are rumors about hopeful candidates. Media reports Moussa has Jewish stepmother, half brother who is now living in Israel; claims could affect polls

155 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:27:39am

Shortened version of the most hard-core Good Friday music:

156 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:27:58am

re: #153 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I got a letter from my friend Fritz, who was in the Nazi Youth as a kid, the other day. He's making up his will-- he's been losing weight steadily and the doctors can't really find out why, so he's preparing for the worst. He's finally going to go visit Auschwitz-Birkenau. He was only 16 when the war ended, he'd been raised to hate his whole life. It's really unfair that a good man like him carries around so much guilt, while the real assholes like Fordman and Spenser feel just dandy about themselves.

157 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:28:54am

Ah. It'll never be the same like the good old days with Mubarak in power.

158 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:33:59am

re: #157 Gus

Ah. It'll never be the same like the good old days with Mubarak in power.

Well, from the looks of it I think we may have seen the end of freedom in Egypt ending pretty quickly. The Muslim Bros are talking about clerical oversight if the legislature which probably means a system sort of like Iran. There's already been moves to set up a non governmental religious police like the Suadis. A missile was launched from Sinai into Israel a few days ago. Maybe in another 20 years they'll have another revolution but for now things aren't looking good.

159 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:34:22am

re: #158 Killgore Trout

Well, from the looks of it I think we may have seen the end of freedom in Egypt ending pretty quickly. The Muslim Bros are talking about clerical oversight if the legislature which probably means a system sort of like Iran. There's already been moves to set up a non governmental religious police like the Suadis. A missile was launched from Sinai into Israel a few days ago. Maybe in another 20 years they'll have another revolution but for now things aren't looking good.

Whatever makes you happy.

160 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:35:07am

Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim.

161 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:37:22am

re: #160 Gus

Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim. Muslim.

Lol. As if 30% of American citizens aren't totally ready to elect a theocratic repressive regime that would launch unprovoked military assaults on countries around the globe.

162 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:37:31am
163 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:41:01am
164 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:41:53am

re: #161 iossarian

Lol. As if 30% of American citizens aren't quite ready to elect a theocratic repressive regime that would launch unprovoked military assaults on countries around the globe.

Yep. One moment they're telling us it's not a Christian thing and that it's secular (something about freedom and democracy) and the next they're saying it was for Christians reasons. GWB constantly sprinkled his foreign policy with the "word of God".

I just think it's "odd" that people only report on the negative aspects of what's going on in Egypt. It almost creates a form of self-fulfilling result of sorts. We constantly hear from the right about the threats of the Muslim Brotherhood. But I'm more interested in what those that oppose the MB from within Egypt rather than a bunch of American neocons that helped create the mess in the Middle East in the first place.

165 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:42:15am

re: #158 Killgore Trout

We'll see how the tourism factor and the US financial help factor play out. I'm not hopeful, just agnostic at this point.

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:43:18am

re: #163 iossarian

For some reason Putin's regime made him a "cause".

167 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:43:20am

re: #165 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

We'll see how the tourism factor and the US financial help factor play out. I'm not hopeful, just agnostic at this point.

re: #165 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

We'll see how the tourism factor and the US financial help factor play out. I'm not hopeful, just agnostic at this point.

I look at it this way. When it comes from the USA? I think "doctor heal thyself."

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:44:59am

re: #167 Gus

It depends. The US has lost moral standing to condemn torture, for example. It can still defend a pluralistic more-or-less secular society.

169 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:46:03am

re: #166 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

For some reason Putin's regime made him a "cause".

Presumably just nationalist table-thumping, an opportunity to paint themselves as standing up to America.

170 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:46:14am

re: #165 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

We'll see how the tourism factor and the US financial help factor play out. I'm not hopeful, just agnostic at this point.

They seem to have cracked down on the kidnapping of tourists but the bad publicity is going to linger for a while.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:47:26am

re: #169 iossarian

Probably. The scenario I foresee is that they arrest and sentence some US citizen, whether on real or trumped up charges, and will want to exchange him.

172 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:49:59am

re: #158 Killgore Trout

20 years might be a bit on the long side. Out of the Middle East "Big 3" Egypt has the most undeveloped economy, relying on Tourist Money.

With that gone, things in Egypt will be depressed economically. The Muslim Brotherhood will turn away most of the tourism, so sayonara billions and billions of dollars. And without that money, the government can't get taxes to pay for what they want, let alone a functioning state.

Egypt under the Muslim Brotherhood will unravel quickly.

173 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:51:48am

Meanwhile Al-Qaeda has a new state.

On 6 April, the MNLA unilaterally declared the independence of Azawad.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:04:51am

In Evgeny Shvarts' play "Dragon", noble knight Lancelot arrives in a city ruled by the dictator Dragon and eventually kills him. This is what happens after people finally gain freedom:


(The slogans shouted are svoboda, ravenstvo i bratstvo/freedom, equality and brotherhood.)
175 Lidane  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:30:47am

re: #68 freetoken

And here you all probably thought I was kidding downstairs about Onanism:

TN Senate approves abstinence bill that warns against 'gateway sexual activity'

*sigh*

These people really do hate their bodies and fear sex. WTF.

176 iossarian  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:30:58am

re: #174 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Silence in the thread.

Meanwhile, youtube data analysts note a surprisingly diverse group of IP addresses accessing semi-obscure Russian political dramas.

177 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:37:04am

re: #173 ProGunLiberal

Fortunately for everyone, it seems that Mali's ECOWAS neighbors are preparing for invasion.

I think it is time for France and the US to crack Algeria for not doing anything about their Terrorist problem. Also, again, allow Morocco and Tunisia to join NATO, and perhaps Libya as well.

178 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:37:45am

re: #164 Gus

I just think it's "odd" that people only report on the negative aspects of what's going on in Egypt. It almost creates a form of self-fulfilling result of sorts. We constantly hear from the right about the threats of the Muslim Brotherhood. But I'm more interested in what those that oppose the MB from within Egypt rather than a bunch of American neocons that helped create the mess in the Middle East in the first place.

Alternate sources that are geographically much closer to actual day to day events in Egypt than the typical American pundit:

From The Jerusalem Post:

Muslim Brothers look inward

There is no reason to panic over the possibility, if not the probability, that Egypt’s next chief of state will be a leader of its Muslim Brotherhood. The alarm sounded by some observers in Israel when the veteran Islamist organization decided to field one of its own as a candidate for the presidency, namely Khairat el- Shater, is unwarranted. [...]

From The Daily Star (Lebanon):

The Islamist-secular battle is under way

Three great battles over political power have been unleashed across the Arab world and will persist for many years, until a new political order stabilizes in every country. One in particular is now reaching an important point that will reveal much about the current political character of Arab societies. The three battles are those between military and civilian authorities (democracy vs. autocracy), between Islamists and secularists (the authority of God vs. the citizenry), and between narrow ethnic/tribal/sectarian identity and a more inclusive national identity (tribe vs. state).

These contests will take years to play themselves out, because they comprise such complex factors as identity, allegiance, collective solidarity, access to state power and resources, and self-preservation. Some of them will endure for decades or more, as we have witnessed in the lively American context between fundamentalist Christians and more secular politicians vying for presidential power, over two centuries after the American independence years first defined religion-state ties.

In the Arab context, we are at an important station in the long road to the new, more participatory, democratic and accountable, national political governance systems. The issue at hand on this stop is about the balance between Islamists and secularists.

This is not a turning point, but simply a stop along the long road, a point at which some decisions will be made by society as a whole, and the march forward will continue, with other decisions to be made at other stops. Many in the region and abroad often jump to hasty conclusions that the various Arab revolutions and uprisings have been reversed and nullified because the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists have now taken over political systems in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia, and are in the process of dominating the opposition movements in Syria. This is a premature rush to judgment. [...]

You might also want to take a look at the current issue of The Cairo Review of Global Affairs, a quarterly journal of the School of Global Affairs and Public Policy (GAPP) at American University in Cairo.

179 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:41:52am

re: #178 CuriousLurker

In Tunisia and Morocco, things are going okay.

Libya is doing about as well as I would think it would considering the historical record of post-revolutionary states. That is to say, barely functional and having major insurrection issues. Even the US had this problem.

And Egypt has apparently gone crappy. I know you say to stay a bit neutral but when the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists start working together for the constitution, it's Game Over.

180 Robert O.  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:42:49am

LOL! Ouch!!

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:44:14am

re: #176 iossarian

It's a good movie if one knows the language.

At 17:45:

- And you suffer this?
- We got used to this.
- You can get used to a dragon?
- Yes. He is very kind.
- What good did he do?
- Well, what to say, he did a lot of good for our city. Under him big construction works took off... And ... he got us rid of gypsies.
- What did he get rid you of?
- Gypsies.
- How can you... Gypsies are very sweet people.
- You know, it's not correct. Although I haven't seen a gypsy in my life, but I remember as if it were today how we were taught in school that these are frightening people. They're all vagrants by their nature, their blood. Enemies of any system of government. Against the system. And their music, it irritates everyone.
- Have you heard it?
- Me? No, but I've been told. So, their music is scary. And their songs? These gypsy songs. They're bereft of masculinity and their ideas are destructive. Scary.
- So who told you all this about gypsies?
- Our dragon.

182 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:51:15am

re: #181 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Heh. reminds me of the people I know who say they had nothing against the gypsies, but one stole their purse/they saw one using a 'drugged child to get money' and NOW they see that all the bad things were true.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 8:53:27am

re: #125 Obdicut

I'm guessing they're not looking to encourage Jews to vacation there.

Lviv? No, they've had issues in the past, IIRC.

184 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:01:24am

re: #175 Lidane

*sigh*

These people really do hate their bodies and fear sex. WTF.

What the hell is "gateway sexual activity"? Heavy petting?

185 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:02:11am

re: #184 austin_blue

Anything that feels remotely good.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:03:06am

re: #175 Lidane

Christian Brotherhood.

187 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:04:38am

re: #184 austin_blue

What the hell is "gateway sexual activity"? Heavy petting?

It's getting to Second Base at the front door.

188 Lidane  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:06:18am

re: #184 austin_blue

What the hell is "gateway sexual activity"? Heavy petting?

Seeing a woman's exposed ankles.

///

190 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:09:12am

But MITT HAS TO LIE...HE'S RUNNING FOR OFFICE FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!1Eleventy

//

191 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:11:47am

gateway sexual

i'm against sex because it leads to traffic jams

192 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:12:48am

re: #189 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I really feel like the media furor took a nosedive as soon as actual evidence relevant to the case-- the Zimmerman police booking videos-- came onto the scene, and they had to drag themselves away from smearing shit all over Trayvon's corpse.

193 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:13:23am

gateway sex

First you touch yourself, then condoms, then BAM! you're marrying a horse.

194 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:14:16am

Egypt under the Muslim Brotherhood will unravel quickly

who knit it?

195 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:14:20am

re: #191 engineer cat

gateway sexual

i'm against sex because it leads to traffic jams

There's a stickshift joke in there...

196 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:15:15am

[Link: slatest.slate.com...]

A Marine sargent was recommended for dismissal by a military board Thursday night after leaving anti-Obama posts on four Facebook pages.

Sgt. Gary Stein, 26, faces an "other than honorable discharge" for alleged misconduct that Marine lawyers argued was "prejudicial to good order and discipline," as the Los Angeles Times reports. The recommendations of the board now make their way to a general, who will either accept or reject them. If accepted, Stein will lose his benefits and access to military bases. If rejected, his case may go to the Secretary of the Navy, according to the Associated Press. Stein has already lost his security clearence and been assigned an office job with no access to computers.

Stein, who served in Iraq, apparently superimposed Obama's image onto movie posters for Jackass and The Incredibles (changed, of course, to The Horribles), which he then posted to Facebook, according to the AP. The Marine also posted on various groups of the social networking site that referred to the President as "the economic and religious enemy" and a coward.

The Marine Corps opted to take action against Stein's comments after he posted that he wouldn't follow orders (later clarified as unlawful orders) from Obama, apparently in reference to an ongoing debate about speculation that NATO troops who burned Qurans in Afghansitan would be tried in the country. Stein's remark drew support form Rep. Darrell Issa, as the AP reports.

Military policy that limits free-speech rights of active duty service members includes criticism of the president, and participation in many forms of public political advocacy. But Stein's lawyers argued that his comments were made while off duty, and should therefore be protected by the First Amendment, reports the L.A. Times.

Whatever. Good riddance.

197 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:18:40am

re: #196 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

[Link: slatest.slate.com...]

Whatever. Good riddance.

Marines are never "off duty".

198 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:21:15am

re: #197 austin_blue

Marines are never "off duty".

This raises the crucial question: can one wank while on duty? //

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:21:53am

re: #198 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

This raises the crucial question: can one wank while on duty? //

Sure. And under the new rules, you can think about guys while you do it!

200 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:23:19am

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. And under the new rules, you can think about guys while you do it!

You could do it before too. Now you can proudly proclaim to the world that you think of guys while wanking! ///

201 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:30:44am

A friend of mine in the Army said that along with his other orientation handouts, there was a xeroxed guide to places on the base with 'privacy' to 'collect your thoughts'. He felt that was very sweet.

202 Simply Sarah  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:42:08am

re: #200 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

You could do it before too. Now you can proudly proclaim to the world that you think of guys while wanking! ///

Look, you guys can wank all you want to whatever you want, but I really don't feel I need to hear the details. I mean, do you want to hear about when I ma...you know what, on further reflection I'm probably better off not asking that.

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:46:28am

re: #202 Simply Sarah

Good choice./

204 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:49:41am

Oh no:

205 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:50:05am

Bobby, what are you doing in there? Bobby?

Leave me alone Ma! I'm collecting my thoughts!

Oh Bobby, stop that. Before you know it you'll be marrying horses!

Oh Ma! Can't a kid go the bathroom fer Chrissakes?

206 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:51:22am

re: #204 ProGunLiberal

2 ejected.

207 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:52:23am

re: #206 Obdicut

I saw that. However, there seem to be bigger issues.

208 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:56:30am

re: #206 Obdicut

2 ejected.

Not from the apartment complex, I'd imagine.

209 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:57:36am

re: #208 Satanic Ritual Kazoo

the video I saw showed the wreckage in an open area. Maybe we got lucky.

210 Flounder  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:59:34am

Very sad looking pic's of "miners" in Afghanistan, those kids look more like slave labor.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

211 KronoGhazi  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 10:12:09am

WIN/INTERNETS

213 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 10:21:27am

re: #212 Gus

No casualties being reported so far.

214 blueraven  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 10:22:11am

re: #212 Gus

F/A-18 Hornet Crash Info

Google Map of Mayfair Mews Apartments

Squadron VFA-106

WAVY Newscast Live Stream | WAVY.com

Virginia Beach Fire and EMS Live Audio Feed

So far, no casualties reported. Hopefully a major catastrophe has been avoided.

215 Gus  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 10:22:22am

re: #213 Obdicut

No casualties being reported so far.

None yet.

216 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 10:42:45am

re: #214 blueraven

So far, no casualties reported. Hopefully a major catastrophe has been avoided.

Just NE of runway 5L at Oceana NAS.

217 sean6886politik  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 10:56:46am

re: #12 ReamWorks

Except that his supporters believe everything they're spoonfed and his supporters hate President Obama so much that it wouldn't matter to them if they did know the truth.

218 labman57  Fri, Apr 6, 2012 3:49:17pm

Romney's campaign is based on unabashed lies, frequent flip-flops, and blatant pandering that he believes will help him to get nominated … strategically planning to hit his reset button during the general election.

Just another Republican politician who routinely redefines reality to support his specious arguments and indefensible point of view.


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