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1 Kragar  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 10:47:45pm

All I know is I dreamed I was being chased by some huge growling monster last night that sounded exactly like my wife's snoring which woke me up.

2 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 10:59:16pm

re: #1 Kragar

When the garbage men came through the alley earlier this week, snatching up the dumpsters with their hydraulic claws, I dreamt I was on a the deck of a ship, loading and stacking giant, metal freight containers.

3 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:03:06pm

Speaking of whacked out dreams and unusual music videos...

4 ReamWorks SKG  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:05:51pm

Mad Men was in fine form tonight! I'm so glad this show's back.

And if you want backstory, read about Richard Speck

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

5 Mocking Jay  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:23:04pm

re: #4 ReamWorks

Mad Men was in fine form tonight! I'm so glad this show's back.

And if you want backstory, read about Richard Speck

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I was happy to see Joanie's reaction.

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:29:41pm

Okay, confession time...

I've been seeing this gal for a while now. She's funny (in a dorky way), intelligent, and quite good looking. Way better looking than me, anyway. We have just enough in common to spark interest, but not so much that we bore each other with a "sameness".

At any rate, things started getting serious between us, in that way, and we decided to do that thing adults like to do when they're, you know, naked.

Then things got real awkward. She tried to reassure me by saying "Honey, a small penis should not be a problem in a loving relationship."

Still, I wish she didn't have one./

7 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:41:03pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Downding for transphobic joke.

8 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:43:23pm

re: #7 Shvaughn

Downding for your complete disregard for hermaphrodites.

9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:45:36pm

At any rate, I did not intend to be an asshole, and I offer my apologies.

10 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:46:55pm

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Ok, accepted and thank you for the apology.

11 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:56:00pm

I have had an Islam related question that has been nagging me since before I converted.

How will Space-Faring Brothers and Sisters pray towards Mecca, especially if we colonize other planets?

12 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:56:04pm

Emanuel Cleaver says there's no GOP war on women:

Later on the same show, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO), the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus and an influential African-American voice, strongly pushed back on his own party’s line of attack.

When Clever, a United Methodist pastor, lit into the GOP’s claim that President Obama is anti-religion, social conservative Ralph Reed retorted, “Congressman, is it similarly wrong, then, for Democrats to say that the Republican Party is engaged in a war on women? Is that wrong?”

“Yes, that is wrong. And I’ve never said it, not one time,” Cleaver responded. “I condemn it. If it’s a Democrat, if it’s my cousin, it’s wrong.”

“We have got to quit exaggerating our political differences,” he said.

Easy for him, a man, to say that.

13 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 8, 2012 11:57:32pm

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

I have had an Islam related question that has been nagging me since before I converted.

How will Space-Faring Brothers and Sisters pray towards Mecca, especially if we colonize other planets?

I imagine that by such time, computerized instruments would have been created to tell you in which direction Earth lies at any given time and date.

14 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:17:06am

re: #12 Shvaughn

Emanuel Cleaver says there's no GOP war on women:

Easy for him, a man, to say that.

Funny how three Republican women disagree with him:

Murkowski Becomes Third Republican Senator To Criticize GOP’s War On Women

The men in the Republican Party may not think they’re fighting a “war on women,” but its female senators certainly do. Yesterday, Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) joined Sens. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and Kay Bailey Hutchison in criticizing the GOP’s push for legislation to restrict access to contraception and other basic health care services.

15 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:18:57am

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

Holodecks, of course. What else?

16 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:22:33am

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

I have had an Islam related question that has been nagging me since before I converted.

How will Space-Faring Brothers and Sisters pray towards Mecca, especially if we colonize other planets?

You mean original Mecca or New Mecca?

17 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:31:46am

re: #16 Kragar

Funny. Mecca in the Hijaz of course.

18 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:37:31am

re: #17 ProGunLiberal

Funny. Mecca in the Hijaz of course.

Probably just aim for Sol then, once you're out of the solar system.

19 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:14:22am

Working through the recently released 1940 Census data, tracked down a possible candidate for the mysterious grandfather, who had not moved out of the town in which the 1930 Census placed him. The Censuses (Censi ?) says a daughter was born in California, but I've not been able to locate any other data for her. I suspect the patriarchal system of women changing surnames has something to do with it.

Definitely fits the idea of a "needle in a haystack".

20 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:14:42am
21 researchok  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:26:15am

re: #20 freetoken

Made this Monday bearable.

TY

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 2:02:22am
24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:13:09am

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

I have had an Islam related question that has been nagging me since before I converted.

How will Space-Faring Brothers and Sisters pray towards Mecca, especially if we colonize other planets?

There will be an i-phone app for that. Plus at interplanetary distances I assume just pointing oneself towards Earth will be sufficient. And at interstellar distances you probably just need to be oriented towards Sol.

Of course, if humanity and Islam last long enough I presume Mecca will get a spindizzy and be mobile before Sol goes red giant and eats the inner planets. At that point it might be more problematic.

25 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:15:59am

re: #23 Johnny Derp

This is one of my cats:

Image: derpva.jpg

26 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:18:58am

Good morning Lizards. Cup of tea and some toast before heading to work.

Contemplating things for an upcoming RPG campaign. Running the Arthurian stuff myself this time. Current thought process is how to take the fun and games of the Stuart line* and cram it in as local politics of the earldom for a section of England in a time that never really existed.

* - Roughly looking at the English crown succession from Charles II through the Hanovers coming in. You get a bunch of players, and practically all of them held the title for at least a short period of time.

27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:19:47am

re: #25 Obdicut

This is one of my cats:

Image: derpva.jpg

For a derp deposit area I thought it would have some sand or litter for the cat's convenience.
;)

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:30:02am

re: #27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

For a derp deposit area I thought it would have some sand or litter for the cat's convenience.
;)

That's why he looks puzzled.

29 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:33:14am

re: #28 Johnny Derp

That's why he looks puzzled.

That's his normal expression, one of belligerent stupidity. He's one of the more inventively stupid cats I've ever known. He loves the smell of bleach and will roll around in it. He gets into states where, for months at a time, he'll only clean a one-inch square of his fur on his left shoulder.

30 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:36:00am

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

How will Space-Faring Brothers and Sisters pray towards Mecca, especially if we colonize other planets?

re: #24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

There will be an i-phone app for that. Plus at interplanetary distances I assume just pointing oneself towards Earth will be sufficient. And at interstellar distances you probably just need to be oriented towards Sol.

With few exceptions, popular SciFi movies/tv shows do not try to tackle the problem of interstellar and especially intergalactic navigation. Star Trek over the years had a couple of episodes, in TNG, that played with it, but even they usually ignored it.

The reason is because, well, it's hard.

You see, there is no there there, wherever "there" is.

First, there are no absolute directions in universe. Secondly, everything is moving, relative to everything else. Thirdly, the speed of light is finite, and even if one could travel FTL, any image one collected for mapping would be formed from light, which travels of course only at the speed of light.

So, even if you could pop on over to the other side of the galaxy instantly, if you looked "back" and tried to figure out where our solar system "was" by taking a picture you'd be looking at the state of this side of the galaxy that was tens of thousands of years old.

And, almost all scifi shows, and even many science "documentaries", portray galaxies incorrectly. E.g., they show a spiral galaxy spinning, with the arms dragging around like one would see some batter in a bowl being stirred by a spoon. Well, guess what, it doesn't work like that. The arms of spiral galaxies arise more like traffic jams. Each star is moving in its own direction, and over many thousands of years the cumulative effect of the masses of stars around it changes it course.

Like I said, it's all very complicated and solving the N-body problem is hard enough with just a handful of celestial bodies.

So, unless our intrepid space traveller stays real close to our solar system, say within a few tens of light years, close enough so looking "back" at our Sun one would see a background field of stars so arranged so that our recognized "constellations" can still sort of be made out (for at least the more distant background stars), then that space traveller would truly be Lost In Space.

31 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:40:04am

re: #29 Obdicut

He looks pretty clean and sparkly ;)

32 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:42:02am

re: #31 Johnny Derp

He looks pretty clean and sparkly ;)

We bathe him. Which is hilarious, and usually non-lethal.

33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 3:55:57am

re: #30 freetoken

re: #24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

With few exceptions, popular SciFi movies/tv shows do not try to tackle the problem of interstellar and especially intergalactic navigation. Star Trek over the years had a couple of episodes, in TNG, that played with it, but even they usually ignored it.

The reason is because, well, it's hard.

You see, there is no there there, wherever "there" is.

First, there are no absolute directions in universe. Secondly, everything is moving, relative to everything else. Thirdly, the speed of light is finite, and even if one could travel FTL, any image one collected for mapping would be formed from light, which travels of course only at the speed of light.

So, even if you could pop on over to the other side of the galaxy instantly, if you looked "back" and tried to figure out where our solar system "was" by taking a picture you'd be looking at the state of this side of the galaxy that was tens of thousands of years old.

And, almost all scifi shows, and even many science "documentaries", portray galaxies incorrectly. E.g., they show a spiral galaxy spinning, with the arms dragging around like one would see some batter in a bowl being stirred by a spoon. Well, guess what, it doesn't work like that. The arms of spiral galaxies arise more like traffic jams. Each star is moving in its own direction, and over many thousands of years the cumulative effect of the masses of stars around it changes it course.

Like I said, it's all very complicated and solving the N-body problem is hard enough with just a handful of celestial bodies.

So, unless our intrepid space traveller stays real close to our solar system, say within a few tens of light years, close enough so looking "back" at our Sun one would see a background field of stars so arranged so that our recognized "constellations" can still sort of be made out (for at least the more distant background stars), then that space traveller would truly be Lost In Space.

Once you bring FTL travel in and intragalactic distances in everything changes. Though I note that some SF stories have made the navigation issues part of the plots. Destroying star charts to prevent someone back-tracing their origin point, the use or creation of beacons that can act as waypoints, etc.

34 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:02:20am

re: #33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Once you bring FTL travel in and intragalactic distances in everything changes. Though I note that some SF stories have made the navigation issues part of the plots.

I've not seen any movies that tackle this. Are you talking about printed (short stories or novels) material?

35 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:05:52am

re: #34 freetoken

I've not seen any movies that tackle this. Are you talking about printed (short stories or novels) material?

Yes.

The general quality of SF movies in comparison to the written form is quite poor.

36 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:12:23am

re: #35 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The general quality of SF movies in comparison to the written form is quite poor.

Sadly true. I suspect the emphasis on the visual action keeps any time spent (on screen) in contemplation mode to a minimum. It's a general weakness of cinema, and when films are intentionally made to break that (say My Dinner With Andre) they get automatically confined to being "art films".

Even great SciFi films that are morality tales, say Soylent Green, get loaded with action sequences. 2001 is considered boring by modern standards.

37 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:12:52am

re: #24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

There will be an i-phone app for that. Plus at interplanetary distances I assume just pointing oneself towards Earth will be sufficient. And at interstellar distances you probably just need to be oriented towards Sol.

Of course, if humanity and Islam last long enough I presume Mecca will get a spindizzy and be mobile before Sol goes red giant and eats the inner planets. At that point it might be more problematic.

Upding for Blish's sake.

38 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:18:15am

re: #36 freetoken

Sadly true. I suspect the emphasis on the visual action keeps any time spent (on screen) in contemplation mode to a minimum. It's a general weakness of cinema, and when films are intentionally made to break that (say My Dinner With Andre) they get automatically confined to being "art films".

Even great SciFi films that are morality tales, say Soylent Green, get loaded with action sequences. 2001 is considered boring by modern standards.

90 minute movie length roughly lets you do a screen implementation of a short story of short novella. So unless the navigation issue is a central plot point of the story the odds are it won't be brought up. Unless it's something of a McGuffin to get a plot going. (Case in point is a Harry Harrison short story where the character is on a planet to repair a beacon - which evolved natives have unintentionally damaged. The beacon is there to provide the interaction point. Why it exists is simply covered in passing in a few sentences.)

39 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:22:09am

re: #38 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Some of the B5 episodes used the plot device of not correct or missing navigation/beacons in the special dimension of their hyperspace travel. But it was only a plot device, not an attempt to solve a science problem.

40 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:26:12am

re: #39 freetoken

I think part of your conundrum is artificial; the limit of the speed of light as information in a society where some sort of FTL travel is possible ignores the possibility that that FTL travel medium can also carry information. I mean, obviously FTL on its own is fiction, but once you've established that, why restrict yourself to light as a carrier of information?

In the Culture novels by Ian M. Banks, for example, ships scan through the 'hyper' and 'ultra' spaces in order to get information, for which the gobbledegook explanation is that they have no real physical dimensions anyway.

41 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:26:58am

re: #39 freetoken

Some of the B5 episodes used the plot device of not correct or missing navigation/beacons in the special dimension of their hyperspace travel. But it was only a plot device, not an attempt to solve a science problem.

Which is one of the SF solutions to the problem. Have beacons/known navigation points that exist in the hyperspace/transport dimension the FTL works with.

Other FTL systems in SF works involve "jump points" which are fairly fixed points that jump to other fixed points. And an often off-stage part of the set-up is that there are services/explorers/expeditions out attempting to find and map new points on the network. And I remember at least one instance where it was mentioned that a major challenge was figuring out where the far point of a jump actually was located.

42 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:27:25am

Off to work.

43 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:30:50am

re: #41 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Other FTL systems in SF works involve "jump points" which are fairly fixed points that jump to other fixed points.

That's one of the problems - there are not "fixed" points in space! That's why it's not a solution, even assuming the existence of something called "hyperspace".

44 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:31:27am

This is not a new problem:

45 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:34:48am

re: #40 Obdicut

I think part of your conundrum is artificial; the limit of the speed of light as information in a society where some sort of FTL travel is possible ignores the possibility that that FTL travel medium can also carry information. I mean, obviously FTL on its own is fiction, but once you've established that, why restrict yourself to light as a carrier of information?

In the Culture novels by Ian M. Banks, for example, ships scan through the 'hyper' and 'ultra' spaces in order to get information, for which the gobbledegook explanation is that they have no real physical dimensions anyway.

I've played mentally with "neo-retro' plot gimmicks in which FTL ships become the fastest available means of communication, as in the days of sailing ships. A second example would be the need to re-streamline ships against interstellar dust and gas, as the ships become really fast.

46 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:38:53am

re: #45 Decatur Deb

The Dan Simmons Hyperion novels are actually highly concerned with all this, but it devolves into metaphysics by the end of it.

But there is an interesting look at the universe changing from a place where instantaneous teleportation is possible to, after a technological crash, a place where 'just' FTL travel, with the accordant downsides, is available, but immortality is also present.

47 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:39:39am

re: #46 Obdicut

The Dan Simmons Hyperion novels are actually highly concerned with all this, but it devolves into metaphysics by the end of it.

But there is an interesting look at the universe changing from a place where instantaneous teleportation is possible to, after a technological crash, a place where 'just' FTL travel, with the accordant downsides, is available, but immortality is also present.

New author to me--will look him up.

48 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:40:08am

re: #47 Decatur Deb

New author to me--will look him up.

Very good, quite flawed, but very good. Have you read Ian M. Banks?

49 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:43:27am

re: #47 Decatur Deb

And if you you like horror-- all of Dan Simmons books are somewhat horror, even if they're sci-fi-- but his book Carrion Comfort is the best horror novel I've ever read. It's unforgiving.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:44:17am

Joe the Plumber Blows a Gasket on CNN

False person from A to Z.

51 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:44:32am

re: #48 Obdicut

Very good, quite flawed, but very good. Have you read Ian M. Banks?

Nope--these guys sound too modern for me. My tastes were laid down in the '50s space operas. One of my favorite neo-retro stories involved colonization of an Earth-like planet in serious need of taming. When the immigrant ship dropped its ramp, a string of Amish horse-drawn agricultural vehicles rolled off.

52 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:49:59am

re: #50 Johnny Derp

Joe the Plumber Blows a Gasket on CNN

False person from A to Z.

I've always thought that the encounter between Candidate Obama and JtP was too good to be anything but a Rovian set-up. Can't for the life of me explain how it could be pulled off without some very paranoid skullduggery.

53 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:50:15am

re: #51 Decatur Deb

Ian M. Banks is both grandiose and subtle as a motherfucker. He normally concerns himself with a few interesting characters against a backdrop of holy-crap insane galactic blammo. I'd give him a shot-- his writing skills alone are awesome. Start out with Consider Phlebas, it'll give you a good idea of what sort of novelist Banks is: the hero of that novel is the enemy of the civilization that is the 'hero' of the series.

And Bank's starships have AIs running them, and so of course they name themselves things like It's Character Forming and Death and Gravity.

54 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:51:20am

re: #52 Decatur Deb

I think it's just a factor of iteration; memetically program enough assholes to gibber the same crap, and you'll eventually get that meetup. It's important to remember Joe was lying during that encounter about most of the facts of his situation.

55 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:51:20am

BTW, that 1960 paper is legit. The USAF ION had many interesting presentations at their conferences in that year:

[Link: www.ion.org...]

56 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:52:32am

And to think, here we are 52 years later without a manned space program.

How the mighty are cut down.

I wonder what those nav folk back in 1960 would think of us now.

57 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:54:56am

re: #53 Obdicut

Ian M. Banks is both grandiose and subtle as a motherfucker. He normally concerns himself with a few interesting characters against a backdrop of holy-crap insane galactic blammo. I'd give him a shot-- his writing skills alone are awesome. Start out with Consider Phlebas, it'll give you a good idea of what sort of novelist Banks is: the hero of that novel is the enemy of the civilization that is the 'hero' of the series.

And Bank's starships have AIs running them, and so of course they name themselves things like It's Character Forming and Death and Gravity.

Will check him out. For a very early example of an AI 'running' a doomed ship, find Harry Martinson's poem Aniara.

Cordwainer Smith's Lady Who Sailed the 'Soul' still might be the finest SF story. Both men had very atypical non-writing lives.

58 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:57:26am

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Have you read Lem?

59 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:59:32am

re: #56 freetoken

And to think, here we are 52 years later without a manned space program.

How the mighty are cut down.

I wonder what those nav folk back in 1960 would think of us now.

Not sure being temporarily earth-bound is that big a set-back. The Mars crawlers and asteroid missions might show we are getting smarter than packing Spam-in-a-can.

60 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:01:00am

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Will check him out. For a very early example of an AI 'running' a doomed ship, find Harry Martinson's poem Aniara.

Cordwainer Smith's Lady Who Sailed the 'Soul' still might be the finest SF story. Both men had very atypical non-writing lives.

"Retro" where travel can go FTL but communications is still SOL is not that uncommon. It's often a way to bring in old pre-radio/telegraph concepts like courier ships, mail packets, etc. and apply them to a SF setting. An example of this (in combination with limited FTL travel distance in a single "jump") is the old (70s) Traveler RPG setting.

Set this against the development of an "ansible" - FTL communication in a STL transportation network. I believe Orson Scott Card's Ender series has this sort of set-up going for the most part.

And I recommend Banks as well. Very interesting backgrounds, characters that grow on you, and he delivers sense of wonder IMO as well.

61 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:01:13am

re: #50 Johnny Derp

Joe the Plumber Blows a Gasket on CNN

False person from A to Z.

This act of getting angry at the liberal media when they ask you about your own statements is getting very tiresome. Especially when the only 'real problem' that you want to rant about is that there's a Democrat in the White House.

62 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:04:31am

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Will check him out. For a very early example of an AI 'running' a doomed ship, find Harry Martinson's poem Aniara.

Cordwainer Smith's Lady Who Sailed the 'Soul' still might be the finest SF story. Both men had very atypical non-writing lives.

Oh yes--Aniara is hard to find now, old English-language copies go for big bucks on Amazon. There are large chunks scattered around the 'net. It was done as a literal 'space opera' with electronic music in the '50s. The Stockholm State Theatre mounted it as a 'space rock opera' last year.

Lady is novella-sized, in a lot of collections and on the 'net IIRC. It carries more emotional impact than any SF I've read. (And the heroine chooses a philosophical-based abortion, in the 1950s.)

63 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:13:56am

re: #60 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

"Retro" where travel can go FTL but communications is still SOL is not that uncommon. It's often a way to bring in old pre-radio/telegraph concepts like courier ships, mail packets, etc. and apply them to a SF setting. An example of this (in combination with limited FTL travel distance in a single "jump") is the old (70s) Traveler RPG setting.

Set this against the development of an "ansible" - FTL communication in a STL transportation network. I believe Orson Scott Card's Ender series has this sort of set-up going for the most part.

And I recommend Banks as well. Very interesting backgrounds, characters that grow on you, and he delivers sense of wonder IMO as well.

The morning is turning into a library disaster--more reading assignments than I started with.

64 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:14:11am

re: #61 Renaissance_Man

At least governor Sarah Palin was governor Sarah Palin. Joe the Plumber is neither Joe, nor a plumber.

65 freetoken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:15:21am

re: #64 Johnny Derp

At least governor Sarah Palin was governor Sara Palin. Joe the Plumber is neither Joe, nor a plumber.

Did he make the "the" qualification?

66 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:19:58am

Sun is up, and my illiterate dog has his own agenda. BBL.

67 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:22:07am

Since FTL is universe-breaking magic, quibbling about navigation becomes arguing about the icing.

though at least it's not STvSW.

68 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:26:34am

re: #67 kirkspencer

Since FTL is universe-breaking magic, quibbling about navigation becomes arguing about the icing.

though at least it's not STvSW.

A small portion of our star-faring descendants will refuse to believe they could ever have evolved from anything as primitive as us.

69 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:28:21am

re: #68 Decatur Deb

our star-faring descendants

Optimist.

70 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:33:24am

re: #67 kirkspencer

Since FTL is universe-breaking magic, quibbling about navigation becomes arguing about the icing.

though at least it's not STvSW.

That's like arguing whether Wagon Train was better than 30s western movie seriels...

;)

71 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:35:43am

re: #69 Johnny Derp

Optimist.

Probably not. We would regard each other as abhorrent monsters.

72 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:43:04am

re: #62 Decatur Deb

Oh yes--Aniara is hard to find now, old English-language copies go for big bucks on Amazon. There are large chunks scattered around the 'net. It was done as a literal 'space opera' with electronic music in the '50s. The Stockholm State Theatre mounted it as a 'space rock opera' last year.

Lady is novella-sized, in a lot of collections and on the 'net IIRC. It carries more emotional impact than any SF I've read. (And the heroine chooses a philosophical-based abortion, in the 1950s.)

Cordwainer Smith is like getting a shot of absinthe after reading other SF stuff. Mindbending in its own subtle and non-subtle ways.

73 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:48:24am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

We'll be lucky if the civilization survives the coming lack of resources.

74 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 5:54:47am

re: #51 Decatur Deb

Nope--these guys sound too modern for me. My tastes were laid down in the '50s space operas. One of my favorite neo-retro stories involved colonization of an Earth-like planet in serious need of taming. When the immigrant ship dropped its ramp, a string of Amish horse-drawn agricultural vehicles rolled off.

Of course. Fodder-powered engines that self-reproduce and can be used as food in an emergency situation.

Ever read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_? The "primitives" found on a planet are not simpletons*.

* - And they also have a potential solution on how to control an interstellar empire with STL communications and limited interaction.

75 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:04:01am

I stopped dreaming sometime ago. They were always nightmares.

76 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:06:27am

re: #53 Obdicut

And Bank's starships have AIs running them, and so of course they name themselves things like It's Character Forming and Death and Gravity.

I remember one SF story where one of the spaceships was named Necessary Evil But Still Terribly Cool. Unfortunately that was the high point of the book.

77 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:10:37am

re: #33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Once you bring FTL travel in and intragalactic distances in everything changes. Though I note that some SF stories have made the navigation issues part of the plots. Destroying star charts to prevent someone back-tracing their origin point, the use or creation of beacons that can act as waypoints, etc.

Like the rutters ships and pilots of sailing vessels used to keep. Lose those and good luck finding your way back. And if an enemy got ahold of it…

78 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:12:03am

Morning, Lizards!

Just for laughs, I went over to NRO to see if there's still ongoing fallout from Derbyshire getting canned, and sho'nuff, they deliver. Since NRO turned off comments on Rich Lowry's statements, readers at NRO have taken to other stories to express their outrage. For example:

[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

Scanning the NRO comments, it turns out that John Hinderaker over at Powerline has torn into Derbyshire as well, calling his firing a case of better late than never:

[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]

The comments for the Powerline article are about what you'd expect.

79 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:20:55am

re: #74 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Of course. Fodder-powered engines that self-reproduce and can be used as food in an emergency situation.

Ever read Poul Anderson's _The High Crusade_? The "primitives" found on a planet are not simpletons*.

* - And they also have a potential solution on how to control an interstellar empire with STL communications and limited interaction.

Loved the High Crusade. Pre-figures Lucas' stormtrooper-slaying furballs. Three Hearts and Three Lions is same era, same feel.

80 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:23:00am

re: #73 Johnny Derp

We'll be lucky if the civilization survives the coming lack of resources.

We'll experience several near-extinctions in the next few hundred thousand years. The trick is to keep the libraries alive.

81 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:25:10am

re: #80 Decatur Deb

We'll experience several near-extinctions in the next few hundred thousand years. The trick is to keep the libraries alive.

Zardoz!
;)

82 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:25:32am

re: #80 Decatur Deb

Which reminds me: Also devolving into metaphysics but a good read, on that premise, is Anathem.

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:26:57am

re: #82 Obdicut

Which reminds me: Also devolving into metaphysics but a good read, on that premise, is Anathem.

I was reading that while on vacation in Malaysia last summer. Jibed sympathetically with seeing temples and stuff there that included monks.

84 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:28:35am

re: #82 Obdicut

Which reminds me: Also devolving into metaphysics but a good read, on that premise, is Anathem.

Typo or neologism? Hard to tell in the SF world.

85 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:29:28am

re: #81 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Zardoz!
;)

A Canticle for Leibowitz.

86 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:29:39am

And along these lines in past European history...
:)

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I find Thomas Cahill a fun and informative read.

87 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:30:37am

re: #84 Decatur Deb

Typo or neologism? Hard to tell in the SF world.

The latter.

88 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:31:18am

re: #84 Decatur Deb

Typo or neologism? Hard to tell in the SF world.

Neologism, semi.

89 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:32:45am

re: #85 Decatur Deb

A Canticle for Liebowitz.

A novel I both love and hate.

"You stupid bastards! You're going to just blow everything up again!"

(I also initially missed for years the meaning implied in the monk knocking the dust off his sandals as well.)

90 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:33:29am

re: #89 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A novel I both love and hate.

"You stupid bastards! You're going to just blow everything up again!"

(I also initially missed for years the meaning implied in the monk knocking the dust off his sandals as well.)

"It had hams as big as my thumb."

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:48:47am

So, my lap top says it's 8:48PM. The clock says it's 3:45am.

Where am I?

How is everyone where they are?

92 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:49:53am

re: #86 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And along these lines in past European history...
:)

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I find Thomas Cahill a fun and informative read.

Yes, his book about the Jews was enjoyable as well. Think I"ve read/listened to 3 of his.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:52:41am

ne·ol·o·gism noun nē-ˈä-lə-ˌji-zəm

D

efinition of NEOLOGISM

1
: a new word, usage, or expression
2
: a meaningless word coined by a psychotic
— ne·ol·o·gis·tic adjective

94 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:53:33am

re: #91 ggt

So, my lap top says it's 8:48PM. The clock says it's 3:45am.

Where am I?

How is everyone where they are?

Aloha.

95 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:53:56am

re: #91 ggt

So, my lap top says it's 8:48PM. The clock says it's 3:45am.

Where am I?

How is everyone where they are?

My phone says it's 9:52am. My laptop says it's 3:52pm. And my body internal clock is somewhere in-between.

The joys of being physically in the Eastern US and trying to operate on CET time. O_o

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:56:32am

re: #34 freetoken

I've not seen any movies that tackle this. Are you talking about printed (short stories or novels) material?

I thought it was talked about in the one Riddick movie?

97 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 6:58:20am

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

[Link: www.wired.com...]

98 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:03:29am

re: #95 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

My phone says it's 9:52am. My laptop says it's 3:52pm. And my body internal clock is somewhere in-between.

The joys of being physically in the Eastern US and trying to operate on CET time. O_o

yes, my days and nights are still a bit askew.

Probably will be for a week after I get home.

Maui for few days, then Honolulu. I quit trying to spell and pronounce the words here. You should hear how the GPS mangles them!

99 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:03:48am

Mah. Brain.

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:04:33am

re: #99 Gus

Mah. Brain.

You have one?

101 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:05:07am

re: #100 ggt

You have one?

Oooo! That's mean! :P

//

102 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:05:11am

So they kid announced yesterday that it was "Zombie Jesus Day"

I immediately though to of Varek.

LOL

103 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:05:17am

re: #100 ggt

You have one?

He's trying to pickle it so that the zombies won't want it.
;)

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:07:05am

re: #101 Gus

Oooo! That's mean! :P

//

You liked it enough to upding it!

105 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:07:40am

re: #104 ggt

You liked it enough to upding it!

Busted! /

106 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:07:44am

re: #104 ggt

You liked it enough to upding it!

You've been encouraged. Proceed. //

107 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:07:50am

re: #99 Gus

How about the liver?

108 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:08:51am

Awe. Poor wittle Mr. Goad...

“These days, “racist” is the favorite smear word for the ideologically intolerant.” -Jim Goad

109 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:09:35am

re: #34 freetoken

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy incorporates navigation problems with the infinite improbability drive as a means to get anywhere in the galaxy and circumventing the problems with FTL travel - all with introducing a new set of problems.

Now, get me to Magrathea.

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:09:52am

re: #108 Gus

Awe. Poor wittle Mr. Goad...

“These days, “racist” is the favorite smear word for the ideologically intolerant.” -Jim Goad

What a toad. Or a goat.

111 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:10:01am

First, they came for my n-word.
Then, they came for my slut word.
Soon after, all the racists were persecuted...

//

112 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:10:36am

re: #30 freetoken

re: #24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

With few exceptions, popular SciFi movies/tv shows do not try to tackle the problem of interstellar and especially intergalactic navigation. Star Trek over the years had a couple of episodes, in TNG, that played with it, but even they usually ignored it.

The reason is because, well, it's hard.

You see, there is no there there, wherever "there" is.

First, there are no absolute directions in universe. Secondly, everything is moving, relative to everything else. Thirdly, the speed of light is finite, and even if one could travel FTL, any image one collected for mapping would be formed from light, which travels of course only at the speed of light.

So, even if you could pop on over to the other side of the galaxy instantly, if you looked "back" and tried to figure out where our solar system "was" by taking a picture you'd be looking at the state of this side of the galaxy that was tens of thousands of years old.

And, almost all scifi shows, and even many science "documentaries", portray galaxies incorrectly. E.g., they show a spiral galaxy spinning, with the arms dragging around like one would see some batter in a bowl being stirred by a spoon. Well, guess what, it doesn't work like that. The arms of spiral galaxies arise more like traffic jams. Each star is moving in its own direction, and over many thousands of years the cumulative effect of the masses of stars around it changes it course.

Like I said, it's all very complicated and solving the N-body problem is hard enough with just a handful of celestial bodies.

So, unless our intrepid space traveller stays real close to our solar system, say within a few tens of light years, close enough so looking "back" at our Sun one would see a background field of stars so arranged so that our recognized "constellations" can still sort of be made out (for at least the more distant background stars), then that space traveller would truly be Lost In Space.

I don't recall a story where that issue was explicitly discussed, but it seems to me that if one really had FTL, as in more or less instantaneous, then it would be a simple matter to send out mapping probes at increasing distances to map a galaxy in real time (returning the coordinates via FTL). One could probably easily handle 1000 light year jumps at a time without getting lost, and probably increasing jumps as the picture and star movements are built up. It shouldn't take long to do a galaxy, it seems to me.

113 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:13:03am

re: #110 Johnny Derp

What a toad. Or a goat.

Intolerance of intolerance it the new intolerance.

Redneck logic perhaps.

114 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:13:08am

There's a weird thing going on in San Francisco (shocker) with people grafting fruit-bearing limbs onto non-fruit-bearing trees. The city tries to keep the trees non-producing because falling fruit can create a walking hazard. The grafting bandits say that it's good to be able to eat the fruit of the tree.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

115 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:13:46am

Ready?

These days, “racist” is the favorite smear word for the ideologically intolerant. When people ask me if I’m a “racist” I always ask them for their personal definition of that eternally shape-shifting and ever-expanding social construct. I then explain either why I am or am not a racist based solely on their definition. I also explain that I think the term itself is silly and ultimately meaningless, but it’s not a word that scares me like it appears to cause testicles to leap out of nutsacks and hit the floor running nationwide. But my interrogators—or, just as often, my accusers—hardly ever seem to be looking for explanations. They don’t even seem to know the difference between scientific inquiry and the Spanish Inquisition. Rather, they seem hell-bent on using a rusty knife to pry open my cold heart like a stubborn oyster shell to discover the boundlessly irrational primal HATE they are certain throbs inside. True believers that they are, they take it as an article of faith that evil lurks within the hearts of those who don’t think like they do, and goddamnit, they’re going to find it whether it’s there or not.

116 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:15:27am

Wait! There's more!

With all this in mind, I have coined two new handy neologisms:

EGALITOTALITARIAN -n 1. One who believes the false concept of equality must be vigilantly enforced by rule of law, whether federal or that of posse comitatus.

EGALIANITY -n. 1. A strict religious system based on the myth that all people are born with equal cognitive and physical qualities.

EGALITOTALITARIAN!!!!! That's right up there with Totalitarian Progressive.

117 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:16:21am

re: #115 Gus

I can tell I'm reading something well-reasoned when the nutsack analogies start dropping in.

118 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:17:59am

I've got to say that with having just returned from Israel, the Easter/Passover story hits home in a new and different way - particularly the Easter part. I'd been to Israel before, but this time we toured areas that had more significance to Christians, including the Basilica of the Assumption and Church of the Holy Sepulcher as well as the place on the Jordan River where Jesus was baptized.

To think that you were walking along the same basic places where the events and people who make up the Canon of Christianity is mind boggling when you really think about it. It's no wonder that some people get spellbound and bound up in the religious fervor of their trip to the Holy Land - where each step puts you in direct contact with the ground where everyone from the Jewish kings of Israel/Judea lived, the prophets made their pronouncements, and Jesus lived. There's such a level of spirituality that it's hard for people to understand if they've never been there themselves, but at the same time is a draw for so many to come and make pilgrimages.

I was particularly impressed with the Holy Sepulcher and the way that each divergent stream of Christianity has taken to occupy a space of the Church - to the point that repairs of key portions are not done because paying for the repair means one can claim ownership - occupation and power. Each group controls a different portion, and even the steps outside are a bone of contention - the final step is just an inch or two above the rest of the courtyard, but one group claims that final step is the courtyard itself, while the other claims it to be part of the steps.

That's just one church - and one religion (though different sects abound within). Now multiply that by the three religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) that claim Jerusalem as their own holy cities - and you begin to get an idea of how convoluted the entire notion of a peace process is.

119 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:18:41am

re: #114 Obdicut

There's a weird thing going on in San Francisco (shocker) with people grafting fruit-bearing limbs onto non-fruit-bearing trees. The city tries to keep the trees non-producing because falling fruit can create a walking hazard. The grafting bandits say that it's good to be able to eat the fruit of the tree.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

US Army Pacific Command, headquartered in Hawaii, long maintained a "Cocoanut Accident prevention Program". They took occasional fatalities in their area of operation.

120 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:21:22am

re: #118 lawhawk

and you begin to get an idea of how convoluted the entire notion of a peace process is.

Summarized...

121 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:21:32am

re: #91 ggt

So, my lap top says it's 8:48PM. The clock says it's 3:45am.

Where am I?

How is everyone where they are?

In the state of Confusion, obviously. Or perhaps you're in a relative state.

(meh. Hoping it's a better day than last week.)

122 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:22:19am

re: #118 lawhawk

I've got to say that with having just returned from Israel, the Easter/Passover story hits home in a new and different way - particularly the Easter part. I'd been to Israel before, but this time we toured areas that had more significance to Christians, including the Basilica of the Assumption and Church of the Holy Sepulcher as well as the place on the Jordan River where Jesus was baptized.

To think that you were walking along the same basic places where the events and people who make up the Canon of Christianity is mind boggling when you really think about it. It's no wonder that some people get spellbound and bound up in the religious fervor of their trip to the Holy Land - where each step puts you in direct contact with the ground where everyone from the Jewish kings of Israel/Judea lived, the prophets made their pronouncements, and Jesus lived. There's such a level of spirituality that it's hard for people to understand if they've never been there themselves, but at the same time is a draw for so many to come and make pilgrimages.

I was particularly impressed with the Holy Sepulcher and the way that each divergent stream of Christianity has taken to occupy a space of the Church - to the point that repairs of key portions are not done because paying for the repair means one can claim ownership - occupation and power. Each group controls a different portion, and even the steps outside are a bone of contention - the final step is just an inch or two above the rest of the courtyard, but one group claims that final step is the courtyard itself, while the other claims it to be part of the steps.

That's just one church - and one religion (though different sects abound within). Now multiply that by the three religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) that claim Jerusalem as their own holy cities - and you begin to get an idea of how convoluted the entire notion of a peace process is.

We have photos of our daughter who was visiting us there. She is dangling from a steel pipe that crosses the Jordan in the Dan region, capturing river water to take back to her pastor. A couple Israelis are kayaking by in the background.

123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:22:54am

re: #119 Decatur Deb

US Army Pacific Command, headquartered in Hawaii, long maintained a "Cocoanut Accident prevention Program". They took occasional fatalities in their area of operation.

Southeast Asia and Pacifica seems to be full of large objects falling out of trees on people: Cocoanuts, Durians, Jackfruit.

In Oxford, you only had to worry about Darwin descending suddenly on you out of a tree.*

* - _To Say Nothing of the Dog_ reference. And it's not *that* Darwin, though I think the RWNJs fear it in that sense.

124 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:24:15am

re: #116 Gus

Wait! There's more!

EGALITOTALITARIAN!!! That's right up there with Totalitarian Progressive.

What is person who believes in equality under the law?

125 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:25:19am

NEOLOGISM 2: a meaningless word coined by a psychotic

126 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:25:44am

re: #124 ggt

What is person who believes in equality under the law?

Egalilegalist.

/

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:25:57am

re: #121 kirkspencer

In the state of Confusion, obviously. Or perhaps you're in a relative state.

(meh. Hoping it's a better day than last week.)

LOL, Thanks! So far, so good.

128 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:26:04am

re: #125 Gus

NEOLOGISM 2: a meaningless word coined by a psychotic

Is that like a Palinism, but with more thought behind it?
//

129 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:26:08am

re: #122 Decatur Deb

Our tour guide said that many people are under the impression that the Jordan River is some huge waterway. The US has the Mississippi. Israel has the Minipeepee....

It's not much bigger than a creek or stream (the further north you are, the more like a stream it is - but by the time you get to the Dead Sea, it's nearly all gone).

But it's got the history.... and that counts for so much more.

130 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:26:10am

re: #124 ggt

What is person who believes in equality under the law?

re: #126 Johnny Derp

Naive.

131 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:26:19am

re: #126 Johnny Derp

Egalilegalist.

/

Equalitotalitarian!!!!!

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:26:51am

re: #125 Gus

NEOLOGISM 2: a meaningless word coined by a psychotic

I posted that above.

>:0

133 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:27:41am

re: #132 ggt

I posted that above.

>:0

That's where I got that. Thanks. :) See, mah brainz still werks!

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:27:57am

re: #129 lawhawk

Our tour guide said that many people are under the impression that the Jordan River is some huge waterway. The US has the Mississippi. Israel has the Minipeepee...

It's not much bigger than a creek or stream (the further north you are, the more like a stream it is - but by the time you get to the Dead Sea, it's nearly all gone).

But it's got the history... and that counts for so much more.

There are places where the Rio Grande looks like a drainage ditch. Easy to see why the border between Mexico and the US is easily overlooked by some.

:0

135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:28:18am

re: #133 Gus

That's where I got that. Thanks. :) See, mah brainz still werks!

What brain?

:0

136 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:28:25am

re: #129 lawhawk

Our tour guide said that many people are under the impression that the Jordan River is some huge waterway. The US has the Mississippi. Israel has the Minipeepee...

It's not much bigger than a creek or stream (the further north you are, the more like a stream it is - but by the time you get to the Dead Sea, it's nearly all gone).

But it's got the history... and that counts for so much more.

Yes, it was narrow and fast-flowing that Spring north of the Kinneret. Not quite white-water.

137 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:29:06am

Envirototalitarian!

See! It's teh EZ!

138 jaunte  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:29:24am

re: #115 Gus

Jim Goad, hell-bent on writing about testicles leaping out of nutsacks, goddamnit. What is it with these conservative writers and their obsession with the hanging parts?

139 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:29:54am

re: #138 jaunte

Jim Goad, hell-bent on writing about testicles leaping out of nutsacks, goddamnit. What is it with these conservative writers and their obsession with the hanging parts?

That is a question I was pondering over the weekend.

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:30:14am

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Southeast Asia and Pacifica seems to be full of large objects falling out of trees on people: Cocoanuts, Durians, Jackfruit.

In Oxford, you only had to worry about Darwin descending suddenly on you out of a tree.*

* - _To Say Nothing of the Dog_ reference. And it's not *that* Darwin, though I think the RWNJs fear it in that sense.

In Connie Willis's version you only had to worry about Cyril nudging you out of bed. . . .

141 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:30:55am

re: #140 ggt

And the princess suffocating you.

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:30:56am

re: #137 Gus

Envirototalitarian!

See! It's teh EZ!

Homototalitariam.
Feminototalitarian.
Totaliberal.

143 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:31:28am

re: #142 Johnny Derp

Homototalitariam.
Feminototalitarian.
Totaliberal.

Climateommunism!

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:31:55am

re: #143 Gus

Climateommunism!

Free Marxet.

145 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:32:20am

re: #142 Johnny Derp

How about Egalitognostic: Pretending all sources of knowledge are equal, from a guy who thinks that god created the earth 6000 years ago to a professor who's worked his entire life to study and understand a problem.

146 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:32:26am

re: #144 Johnny Derp

Free Marxet.

Marxosexualism!

147 jaunte  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:32:29am

re: #143 Gus

The Road to Derpdom.

148 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:32:49am

re: #147 jaunte

The Road to Derpdom.

Is often paved...

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:33:35am

re: #145 Obdicut

How about Egalitognostic: Pretending all sources of knowledge are equal, from a guy who thinks that god created the earth 6000 years ago to a professor who's worked his entire life to study and understand a problem.

Equignostic then.

150 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:33:44am

re: #139 Gus

That is a question I was pondering over the weekend.

151 jaunte  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:33:54am

MarxCarthyists!

152 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:36:11am

re: #151 jaunte

MarxCarthyists!

Totalibortionists!

153 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:36:41am

re: #145 Obdicut

How about Egalitognostic: Pretending all sources of knowledge are equal, from a guy who thinks that god created the earth 6000 years ago to a professor who's worked his entire life to study and understand a problem.

"New Age"?

154 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:37:07am

re: #152 Gus

Totalibortionists!

Seculislamarxitarians.

155 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:37:37am

Shariatheists.

156 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:38:22am

re: #155 Johnny Derp

Shariatheists.

Islamosecularism!

157 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:39:08am

Derp.

158 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:39:09am

re: #145 Obdicut

How about Egalitognostic: Pretending all sources of knowledge are equal, from a guy who thinks that god created the earth 6000 years ago to a professor who's worked his entire life to study and understand a problem.

On second thought, shouldn't that be Egalitagnostic?

159 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:40:31am

re: #148 Gus

Is often paved...

...with rude pretensions.

161 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:44:40am

Carnoveganism!

162 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:47:22am

Remember when Glenn Beck started a rumor about his own impending death due to a yet unknown illness?

163 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:47:27am

Sweet potatoes aren't planting themselves. BBL

164 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:48:27am

re: #160 Gus

Glenn Beck To Begin Broadcasting Weekly Speeches From Fake Oval Office

And so it begins. It's quite possible that by November, the media bubble will be so impervious that Conservativists could be convinced that Glenn Beck was actually elected President, and with his weekly speeches they will be kept blissfully happy in their fictitious world. Their world barely intersects with the real one now, I see no reason why it can't be used to keep them happy instead of making them angry.

165 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:48:41am

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Sweet potatoes aren't planting themselves. BBL

One of those days you will be surprised.

166 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:49:02am

re: #159 Decatur Deb

...with rNude pretensions.

Would garner more interest that way

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:49:36am

re: #166 sattv4u2

Would garner more interest that way

Satanudist.

168 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:50:21am

re: #165 Johnny Derp

One of those days you will be surprised.

We need a smarter sweet tater!

169 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:50:26am

re: #140 ggt

In Connie Willis's version you only had to worry about Cyril nudging you out of bed. . . .

Same book. :)

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:50:34am

re: #167 Johnny Derp

Satanudist.

(Still better than Satanudnik.)

171 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:50:52am

re: #167 Johnny Derp

Sexonudoconjugafellatrix.

172 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:51:28am

re: #170 Johnny Derp

(Still better than Satanudnik.)

Santorunine

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:51:47am

Devilwhippersnappers.

174 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:52:03am

re: #113 Gus

Intolerance of intolerance it the new intolerance.

Redneck logic perhaps.

You know you're in for a special kind of fail when a rant starts with this:

As I type this from my heavily black neighborhood, I hark back to my wigger days and recall something that Chuck D from black-nationalist rap group Public Enemy said to me wearily when I interviewed him back in 1990...

That sounds like a poor man's unfunny imitation of Steve Martin in The Jerk. What the fuck.

175 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:52:13am

Corporophillia: Sexuoeroticism linked to allowing corporations to get away with all kinds of shit.

176 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:52:25am

re: #169 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Same book. :)

I'm all out of sorts.

You are, of course, correct.

Perhaps I need to back to bed. Although I seem to have been sleeping alot this trip. On one plane (aircraft and existence), off another.

177 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:52:38am

re: #173 Johnny Derp

Devilwhippersnappers.

Image: baby_devil_costume3.jpg

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:52:44am

re: #175 Interesting Times

Corprophillia

Eh?

179 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:53:07am

re: #164 Renaissance_Man

And so it begins. It's quite possible that by November, the media bubble will be so impervious that Conservativists could be convinced that Glenn Beck was actually elected President, and with his weekly speeches they will be kept blissfully happy in their fictitious world. Their world barely intersects with the real one now, I see no reason why it can't be used to keep them happy instead of making them angry.

Glenn will convince them that the Obama Administration is actually a very cleverly done new version of "The West Wing" that ABC, NBC, and CBS are broadcasting cooperatively in a vain attempt to catch up with FOX in the ratings.
/ (not really)

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:53:15am

Coprophet.

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:53:25am

re: #164 Renaissance_Man

And so it begins. It's quite possible that by November, the media bubble will be so impervious that Conservativists could be convinced that Glenn Beck was actually elected President, and with his weekly speeches they will be kept blissfully happy in their fictitious world. Their world barely intersects with the real one now, I see no reason why it can't be used to keep them happy instead of making them angry.

Reminds me of Galaxy Quest in which the not so smart aliens thought the TV show was reality.

182 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:54:08am

re: #178 Johnny Derp

Eh?

corporation --form of?

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:54:11am

Coprocephalia (condition)

184 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:54:38am

re: #162 Gus

Remember when Glenn Beck started a rumor about his own impending death due to a yet unknown illness?

He was a rank amateur compared to Oral Roberts famously claiming that God would call him home if he didn't raise $8 million.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:54:54am

re: #182 ggt

corporation --form of?

Ah. Corporophilia.

186 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:55:02am

re: #174 Lidane

You know you're in for a special kind of fail when a rant starts with this:

That sounds like a poor man's unfunny imitation of Steve Martin in The Jerk. What the fuck.

I interviewed him! Yet another unknown author, poser and general all around wannabe. You ever notice that there's a lot of these guys? They seem to have failed in Hollywood or garnering a large reading audience. They had visions of grandeur and fame. Much like Breitbart had. They invariably morph into these enraged right-wing bigots.

187 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:55:29am

re: #183 Johnny Derp

No. See edit. Based on...

188 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:56:00am

In case anyone's wondering, the latest meme among conservatives about Derbyshire's repugnant "article" is that it was "just satire".

189 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:56:31am

re: #187 Interesting Times

No. See edit. Based on...

Yeah, well, I was thinking along those terms . . .

190 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:56:52am

re: #188 SidewaysQuark

In case anyone's wondering, the latest meme among conservatives about Derbyshire's repugnant "article" is that it was "just satire".

Like Limbaugh. . . .

191 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:57:14am

re: #188 SidewaysQuark

In case anyone's wondering, the latest meme among conservatives about Derbyshire's repugnant "article" is that it was "just satire".

Just like old Johnny Rebel records.

192 jaunte  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:57:21am

re: #188 SidewaysQuark

The ALEC program to disenfranchise poorer voters is just "performance art."

193 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:57:21am

re: #188 SidewaysQuark

In case anyone's wondering, the latest meme among conservatives about Derbyshire's repugnant "article" is that it was "just satire".

They're going with satire now? Last I saw, people were calling Derbyshire fearless and honest for saying what people really think and that NRO are a bunch of cowards for caving in to the politically correct racialists or some shit.

Guess the talking points are in.

194 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:58:08am

I am going back to bed. Will probably miss the glorious sunrise -again.

Have a great morning all!

195 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:58:39am

re: #192 jaunte

The ALEC program to disenfranchise poorer voters is just "performance art."

Help wanted: Mime

Must have experience. Apply at Republican Party HQ.

196 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:59:14am

re: #193 Lidane

They're going with satire now? Last I saw, people were calling Derbyshire fearless and honest for saying what people really think and that NRO are a bunch of cowards for caving in to the politically correct racialists or some shit.

Guess the talking points are in.

Oh, they'll use which ever one is most convenient at the time. When the National Review is defending itself from conservative attacks, you know something's wrong with the picture.

197 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 7:59:45am

re: #192 jaunte

The ALEC program to disenfranchise poorer voters is just "performance art."

That's one of the default fallback lines from some of the ID creationists when they get shredded for some extremely stupid blathering as well. They *meant to* do that as a way to simply stir the rabble.

Only Feline Overlords get away with that behavior.

198 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:00:45am

Youkidsgetoffamylawnocrats

199 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:01:55am

re: #138 jaunte

Jim Goad, hell-bent on writing about testicles leaping out of nutsacks, goddamnit. What is it with these conservative writers and their obsession with the hanging parts?

*shrugs* Repubicans.

200 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:02:41am

re: #199 Johnny Derp

*shrugs* Repubicans.

Genitalicans

201 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:02:47am
202 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:04:04am

Republiscrotumunists

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:05:44am

Viagrarian Party.

205 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:06:12am

re: #203 Gus

Morris County Republicans' birther event an embarrassment

Last Tuesday, 400 Republicans were in Morristown to listen to Jerome Corsi — author of “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” — revisit his race-baiting, made-for-the-internet theory that Barack Obama is ineligible for the presidency because he isn’t a natural-born U.S. citizen.

206 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:06:38am

re: #199 Johnny Derp

*shrugs* Repubicans.

Calls for more coproneurologists?

207 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:07:32am

re: #204 Johnny Derp

Viagrarian Party.

Is that those who want chemicals that make plants grow straight and upright?

208 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:07:52am

re: #204 Johnny Derp

Viagrarian Party.

I could get up for that!

209 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:09:08am

re: #208 sattv4u2

I could get up for that!

Of course you would, SatanicTVforYouToo!

210 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:09:37am

re: #205 Gus

It's not an embarrassment if none of the GOPers are embarrassed by their participation, association, or spreading of the birtherism nonsense.

211 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:10:56am

re: #209 Johnny Derp

Of course you would, SatanicTVforYouToo!

:(

My cover has been blown!

212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:13:56am

re: #205 Gus

Last Tuesday, 400 Republicans were in Morristown to listen to Jerome Corsi — author of “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” — revisit his race-baiting, made-for-the-internet theory that Barack Obama is ineligible for the presidency because he isn’t a natural-born U.S. citizen.

Heck, just read the comments to that article. The defenders come out in force, talking points in hand. And note the umbrage at the article calling it a "tinfoil hat" crowd. The article is pointing and laughing (in tears) because a major party's local representatives are treating this stuff as if it was serious.

213 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:17:57am

re: #212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Heck, just read the comments to that article. The defenders come out in force, talking points in hand. And note the umbrage at the article calling it a "tinfoil hat" crowd. The article is pointing and laughing (in tears) because a major party's local representatives are treating this stuff as if it was serious.

I took something differnt from it

The partys local reps are treating 400 prospective voters as serious

"Morris Republican chairman John Sette was asked, too: “I personally have a philosophy of staying close to the tea party people. ... There’s lots of people who might have outlandish views in every spectrum in politics. We’re open to everybody and we believe in freedom of speech."
Doesn't sound as if he buys into the theory, but doesn't want to alienate potential voters

214 Decatur Deb  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:19:06am

re: #212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Heck, just read the comments to that article. The defenders come out in force, talking points in hand. And note the umbrage at the article calling it a "tinfoil hat" crowd. The article is pointing and laughing (in tears) because a major party's local representatives are treating this stuff as if it was serious.

The greatest trick the President ever pulled was convincing the wingnuts he wasn't a citizen. And like that, poof. He's re-elected.

215 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:20:15am

re: #213 sattv4u2

The partys local reps are treating 400 ignorant, unserious prospective voters as serious

FTFY

Anyone who's dumb enough to be a birther shouldn't be courted by a major political party. It's like going after the 9/11 troofer vote. Why bother? Save the time and effort for serious people with legitimate concerns.

216 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:20:27am

re: #213 sattv4u2

I took something differnt from it

The partys local reps are treating 400 prospective voters as serious

"Morris Republican chairman John Sette was asked, too: “I personally have a philosophy of staying close to the tea party people. ... There’s lots of people who might have outlandish views in every spectrum in politics. We’re open to everybody and we believe in freedom of speech."
Doesn't sound as if he buys into the theory, but doesn't want to alienate potential voters

"...We’re open to everybody and we believe in freedom of speech."

That's hilarious. It's the old "they might be crazy but they're our crazies" argument.

217 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:21:50am

What's next...

"They might be racists but they're our racists."

No wait. They're already doing that too.

218 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:22:16am

re: #215 Lidane

re: #216 Gus

There's a word for it, actually
lemme think,,, I have it on the tip of my tongue here

219 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:22:33am

Oh yeah

POLITICS

220 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:23:47am

re: #219 sattv4u2

Oh yeah

POLITICS

Winning.

//

221 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:24:42am

re: #219 sattv4u2

Because a serious political party should go out of their way spending time and money to court the craziest, most ignorant bastards on their side. Really.

I know it's an election year and all, but come on. The GOP needs to have some kind of standards despite the fact that all their candidates suck.

222 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:24:56am

Meanwhile in Portland
'Boobs Out' for Hanford

Image: occupya15-8b3f8b735dcf07c0.jpg
The hairy pits and gas mask is a nice touch

223 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:25:14am

re: #219 sattv4u2

Except the Democrats aren't courting 9/11 truthers, and the GOP has actual elected officials-- lots of them-- who are outright endorsing birtherism.

But you knew that.

224 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:25:24am

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Meanwhile in Portland
'Boobs Out' for Hanford

Image: occupya15-8b3f8b735dcf07c0.jpg
The hairy pits and gas mask is a nice touch

Zombietime again!

225 iossarian  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:31:24am

re: #223 Obdicut

Except the Democrats aren't courting 9/11 truthers, and the GOP has actual elected officials-- lots of them-- who are outright endorsing birtherism.

But you knew that.

"I'm just asking questions here."

226 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:32:17am

re: #224 Gus

If you go to Dolores Park today, you'll probably see more naked people and more interesting outfits.

I miss Dolores Park.

Image: 4-13-sunbathers3.jpg

227 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:35:36am

re: #226 Obdicut

If you go to Dolores Park today, you'll probably see more naked people and more interesting outfits.

I miss Dolores Park.

Image: 4-13-sunbathers3.jpg

Hey! I know that place. They're doing nude-sun bathing their now? Hope they're enforcing the towel rule. :O

Otherwise I was just thinking...

BREAKING NEWS: Crazy guy spotted on street corner in Metropolis! Film at 11.

Stuff reminds me of Zombietime. It's like this perverse ideological voyeurism. Nyuk, nyuk. "It's them liberals again in those liberal cities."

228 jaunte  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:36:23am

Mike Bloomberg:
Op-Ed: Washington Needs to Stop Cowering Before The Gun Lobby

"...Across the country, more than 80% of gun owners support simple fixes to the background check system that would help stop the flow of guns to criminals. The ideologues who run the gun lobby don’t want us to know that, but it’s true."

229 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:36:37am

re: #227 Gus

They've been doing it since I was a kid. They keep a towel nearby and flip it over if a cop is wandering around, and mostly they keep it to the upper end of the hill on the left, away from the playground-- but the whole park just got refurbished so maybe things have moved around.

230 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:37:56am
231 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:40:39am

Good morning lizards!

I hope everyone had a good weekend. I got lots of yard work done and had turkey for dinner last night.

:)

233 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:44:47am

It's only revenge if they specifically targeted individuals involved in England's father's death. Otherwise, if it was random and against blacks it was a racially motivated hate crime.

234 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:45:45am

re: #230 Gus

Ah, the joys of "critical thinking" as compared to critical thinking. The former is used as a wedge to bring in creationism and junk science into the classroom, while the latter would exclude them because critical thinking would show how neither is supported by the scientific method.

235 jaunte  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:50:43am
236 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:51:32am

re: #233 Gus

Obviously its tragic to have your dad murdered, and I might feel sympathy for someone who sought out and killed the guy who shot his father.

But some asshole who just shoots random people who are of the same race?

Yeah, that's a hate crime.

237 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:52:35am

re: #236 Obdicut

Obviously its tragic to have your dad murdered, and I might feel sympathy for someone who sought out and killed the guy who shot his father.

But some asshole who just shoots random people who are of the same race?

Yeah, that's a hate crime.

Exactly. They're all at random as far as I know which makes it a hate crime.

238 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:58:34am

re: #236 Obdicut

Obviously its tragic to have your dad murdered, and I might feel sympathy for someone who sought out and killed the guy who shot his father.

I'd feel more sympathy if he trained in secret for years before putting on a mask and cape to dispense justice.

Or if the man who murdered his father had six fingers.

239 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 8:59:05am

re: #237 Gus

The likelihood that five people all connected to the crime would be just walking around on the same day is pretty remote, I think.

240 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:01:16am

re: #235 jaunte

Well, they are white guys who have produced videos... / that turn out to be newsworthy - but for completely different reasons and purposes.

241 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:11:12am

In case you haven't heard already:

Special prosecutor in Trayvon Martin shooting has decided against sending the case to a grand jury, her office says.

242 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:11:52am

re: #241 Gus

Oh my, the shit's going to hit the fucking fan.

243 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:12:55am

re: #242 Obdicut

Oh my, the shit's going to hit the fucking fan.

It could. But that news could mean anything. If they have enough evidence to to take this to trial they wouldn't need a grand jury?

244 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:14:15am
245 ThomasLite  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:14:31am

re: #243 Gus

then again, how likely is that given what we know of the available evidence?

246 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:14:53am

re: #243 Gus

Thanks, Gus, you're right.


[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

The Florida special prosecutor investigating the Trayvon Martin shooting has decided not to use a grand jury, but says that should not be considered a factor in her final determination of the case.

...

"We want to believe that this would be a positive sign that the prosecutor has enough information to arrest Trayvon Martin's killer," said Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the Martin family, moments after Corey released the news. "The family is really trying hard to be patient and have faith in the system."

247 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:15:03am

re: #245 ThomasLite

then again, how likely is that given what we know of the available evidence?

I have no idea. All we can do is wait.

248 Kronocide  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:18:00am

400 GOP attending a Jerome Corsi talk? Nothing to see here.

What if it was David Duke?

What if 400 Dems attended a talk with Bill Ayers?

We believe in freedom of speech

Logic al Absurdum

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:18:29am

re: #188 SidewaysQuark

In case anyone's wondering, the latest meme among conservatives about Derbyshire's repugnant "article" is that it was "just satire".

You mean, like Colbert? He was satirizing the attitudes of people who say such things to their children? He was pointedly mocking the pathetic fools who think that insisting that their bigotry is objectively true will somehow make the rest of us not notice that they're hateful and idiotic?

No, he wasn't.

Also, if it had been satire, it was not very good satire. You have to go over the top in satire, not merely say things your fans believe to be literally true. See Swift for details.

250 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:19:00am

re: #249 SanFranciscoZionist


And Derbyshire is a completely unapologetic racist, and there's no reason to think it's satire at all.

251 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:19:37am

FL grand jury rules - when necessary:

The grand jury's primary role is to determine whether sufficient evidence exists to justify indicting an accused individual.1 To make such determinations, a grand jury also serves as an investigating body with subpoena powers.2 In Florida, a grand jury indictment is required only to try a person for a capital offense; i.e., one where the death penalty may be given.3 Otherwise, the state attorney has concurrent authority to file a formal accusation of the commission of a crime (an "information").4 The information is used routinely to charge individuals in Florida. In addition to capital cases, grand juries often are utilized for controversial cases such as those involving alleged wrongdoing by public officials.

Since we're not talking a capital offense here (likely charges are manslaughter or negligent homicide or the FL equivalents), a grand jury isn't formally required. The state attorney could bring the information directly without a grand jury, though he or she may choose to do so in a highly charged situation.

It's possible that the evidence gathered is sufficient to bring charges even without a grand jury.

However, if the state attorney is not going to bring charges at all, that raises all kinds of questions and is likely to set off a whole new round of protests.

252 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:21:01am

Explain in 5 words: what are grand juries for and why are they optional?

253 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:21:37am

re: #251 lawhawk

Oh, I see this answers my question.

254 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:22:14am

PETA Leaves Hidden Message for Miami Marlins

The Miami Marlins have been punked. The PETA folks did it. They are not happy with the team's in-stadium aquarium, so they pulled a fast one with their message on a commemorative brick. Len Berman suggests a brick of his own.

255 Kronocide  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:22:27am

re: #252 Johnny Derp

Explain in 5 words: what are grand juries for and why are they optional?

validate if enough evidence for trial

that's 6, but I tried

256 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:24:58am

re: #255 Kronocide

validate if enough evidence for trial

that's 6, but I tried

You could say it with one word in German.

Überprüfenobgenügendbeweisevorgericht

//

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:25:00am

re: #252 Johnny Derp

Explain in 5 words: what are grand juries for and why are they optional?

Hmm.

Can command indictment, if needed.

(Sorry, that's the best I can do in five words.)

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:26:50am

re: #256 Gus

You could say it with one word in German.

Überprüfenobgenügendbeweisevorgericht

//

Oh, I can explain it in one word in Hjorhwiehiese too: iohreigorboeugbuibriegboegbobeogoihgw.
/

259 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:26:50am

How about "stop unsupported cases getting tried"?

260 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:26:50am

re: #252 Johnny Derp

Sometimes optional indictment process. /4 words

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:26:50am

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmm.

Can command indictment, if needed.

(Sorry, that's the best I can do in five words.)

It's an old-fashioned English legal practice which, IIUC, is only still in use in the United States.

262 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:27:07am

Drive-by post:

Mike Wallace, 1967, The Homosexuals. I would've been in kindergarten then. In-freaking-credible, the attitudes. Man, was that ever an eye-opener.

I don't remember the '70s being that bad, but then I guess I wouldn't. Maybe things were slightly better by then...? Ugh.

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:27:45am

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmm.

Can command indictment, if needed.

(Sorry, that's the best I can do in five words.)

Maybe 'Can ISSUE indictment, if needed.'

264 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:28:52am

re: #263 SanFranciscoZionist

Can order indictment, if needed.

265 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:29:25am

re: #263 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe 'Can ISSUE indictment, if needed.'

Saving prosecutors embarrassment, taxpayers money.

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:29:33am

Also can make pancakes, if necessary.

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:30:04am

re: #264 PhillyPretzel

Can order indictment, if needed.

Thanks, I knew there was a verb I was trying to get to.

268 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:30:10am

Can go directly to trial.

269 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:30:42am

I can haz jury trial.

270 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:31:02am

"5 words" was of course a figure of speech, but Lizards rose to the challenge ;)

271 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:31:04am

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

No problem. That is what English majors are here for. :)

272 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:31:52am
273 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:37:13am

re: #268 Gus

Can go directly to trial.

Do Not Pass Goto Trial. Juror Collect $7.

;)

274 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:38:51am

re: #271 PhillyPretzel

No problem. That is what English majors are here for. :)

I am resisting the urge to attempt to frame it as a haiku.

275 Kronocide  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:38:58am

Andrew McCarthy from NRO's The Derp Corner:

Long before I had anything to do with National Review, I was envious of Derb’s talent as a writer and thinker. Over the last few years, I’ve gotten to know him a bit. He is charming, fiercely witty company. All that said, racialism is noxious regardless of who practices it. It is wrong that what is a day at the office for the Left’s racialists becomes a hanging offense in Derb’s case. But that is a summons to disgust over the former, not a defense of the latter.

Call the But They Do It Too Whaaambulance. At least he called it racialism. The kinder and gentler racism.

276 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:39:13am

re: #265 Obdicut

Saving prosecutors embarrassment, taxpayers money.

Ham sandwiches, others, indicted sometimes.

277 Kronocide  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:39:38am

Jury Trial? Hell yes, bitches!

278 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:41:07am

re: #277 Kronocide

Jury Trial? Yep.

279 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:42:38am

re: #275 Kronocide

Andrew McCarthy from NRO's The Derp Corner:


Call the But They Do It Too Whaaambulance. At least he called it racialism. The kinder and gentler racism.

Do realize that the Magical Balance Fairy defense has no moral standing whatsoever in cases like this? That's the kind of justification you see for torturing prisoners and bombing civilians.

280 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:44:26am

re: #274 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I am resisting the urge to attempt to frame it as a haiku.

Grand jury sits.
A stream outside, a net
scooping, frog caught.

281 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:45:24am

No grand jury trial.
Prosecutor mulls.
Burma shave.

282 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:52:35am

re: #252 Johnny Derp

Explain in 5 words: what are grand juries for and why are they optional?

Validates indictments reducing prosecutor misconduct.
Not required in all states.

Oh, wait, you wanted five words for the whole thing?

283 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:59:42am

re: #275 Kronocide

Andrew McCarthy from NRO's The Derp Corner:

Call the But They Do It Too Whaaambulance. At least he called it racialism. The kinder and gentler racism.

I think I'd be interested to see if the "day at the office for the Left’s racialists" statement can be backed with anything resembling fact.

284 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:06:32am

Kinda conflicted here, I could use some advice...

I found a stunningly stupid and facile White Supremacist video, a longish cartoon of how whites took over America (from the Native Americans) that in a childish manner "attempts" to parody and satirize the arguments used by non-racists against them.

I'm sure they think that they did a great job of utterly refuting those arguments. But someone from outside their circle will immediately notice how the characters in it only use reversed anti-racist/anti-white supremacist/anti-national socialist arguments to cynically and purposefully declare anyone opposing them racist and then immediately proceed to summarily execute them solely for being a "racist."

It is truly projection on a grand scale, if anything it affirms that they surely would love to execute people simply for disagreeing with their ideology or for the crime of committing "genocide" against the White Race by...err, well...not being White.

So do I make a page about it and thereby gain their stupid racist video more views in the hopes of exposing it to widespread ridicule and condemnation, or just let it die a quiet death on it's little "almost no traffic" web site?

285 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:15:33am

re: #284 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

If it's in some obscure corner, I'd let it be. There are far more visible and powerful messages of racism out there worth taking a whack at.

Just my opinion, of course.

286 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:17:35am

re: #249 SanFranciscoZionist

You mean, like Colbert? He was satirizing the attitudes of people who say such things to their children? He was pointedly mocking the pathetic fools who think that insisting that their bigotry is objectively true will somehow make the rest of us not notice that they're hateful and idiotic?

No, he wasn't.

Also, if it had been satire, it was not very good satire. You have to go over the top in satire, not merely say things your fans believe to be literally true. See Swift for details.

When doing satire you do not link to 'scientific' evidence that validates the point you made.

287 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:56:43pm

Gus is totally kicking ass these days.


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