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Jim Hoft Says Man Arrested For Gunning Down Innocent Black Men Was ‘Understandably Upset’

Remarkable insensitivity or intentional evil?
Wingnuts • Views: 31,102

Two men were arrested in Tulsa, Oklahoma after allegedly driving through town and gunning down three random, innocent black men. According to police reports, one of the men, Jake England, had posted racial slurs on facebook indicating he was upset that his father had been killed by a black male two years ago. For the record, here’s how the Daily Mail described the events two years ago:

On April 5, 2010, Carl England, 47, showed up at the apartment complex where his daughter lived with her boyfriend. The boyfriend had gotten into a fight Pernell Jefferson, 40, and had hit him with a baseball bat, the Tulsa World reported at the time.

Jefferson, who had been in prison on drug and weapons charges, then tried to break into the couple’s apartment but left, saying he planned to ‘settle the dispute.’

England and his daughter’s boyfriend went looking for Jefferson at the apartment complex. When the found him, England hit him with a stick and knocked him to the ground.

Jefferson pulled out a gun and shot England in the chest, the World reported, killing him.

Jefferson, who is black, was arrested the next day when he showed up at a hospital. He was convicted of pointing a firearm. He is serving a six year prison sentence in the shooting.

Jim “Gateway Pundit” Hoft, writing about Jake England’s alleged killing spree, wrote the following while posting screenshots from England’s facebook page:

England was understandably upset over his father’s death.

DERPOf course, we can all agree that anyone would be “upset” about the death of a close family member, but saying that England was “understandably upset” in the aftermath of England being arrested for allegedly driving around shooting innocent black people, after England had used a racial slur to refer to them, is remarkably dense even for Hoft. And it raises an age-old question: is Hoft being intentionally evil or just amazingly stupid?

I won’t try to answer the question here, but I do have some relevant context for your consideration. First, Hoft has linked on multiple occasions to race-baiting news from the Council of Conservative Citizens, a White Nationalist group that is a decedent of the old White Citizens Councils. In fact, Hoft *still* has links to the group’s old “C of CC” website on his blog, though the links are broken because they moved locations. Hoft also has a history of getting source material from blatently racist websites like “diversityiscrap.com,” even getting called out for this by our local Village Voice-owned alt weekly newspaper. And Hoft has repeatedly been called out for using race-baiting articles that quickly turn into racist cesspools, yet he has never apologized nor taken steps to fix the problem.

A good example is Hoft’s post in the last week titled: “HORROR!… Black Youth Mob Beats, Strips & Robs Tourist in Baltimore As Onlookers Laugh & Joke (Video Reposted),” where Hoft uses a video from a youtube channel that posts nothing but stories about black on white crime. In contrast to the post on the alleged murderers of three black men, where Hoft merely reported facts except for his comment that England was “understandably upset,” in the “Youth Mob” article Hoft added editorial comments like “Horror!” and “how awful.” Predictably, the comments section was full of people calling the attackers “animals,” suggesting that they should be “deported to Africa” and saying “Derbyshire was right!” In Hoft’s recent story about the gunning down of three innocent black men, a commenter with a long history of racist comments says:

You know what? It’s about damn time whites started shooting back. If the media is going to hide black-on-white crime and cover for those savages, this is what’s going to happen. They need to grasp that white America has been suffering ‘enword fatigue’ for too long. We are sick of the freebies, the wasted money, the pulling up to grocery stores in Escalades with food purchases paid with foo’ stamp cards, the attacks on the streets, buses, in schools, in malls, the robberies and the racially-motivated beatings and killings. We are sick of the stupid, money-down-the-crapper useless ‘programs’ and the vast sums wasted on trying to educate and civilize these savages.

AFAIC, I say ‘good shooting!’

Blacks, their race-hustling masters like Jackson, Dumb-ton, etc., and elected officials and appointess in government as well as the media can stop this tomorrow just by standing down. It’s time for black America to back the hell up off of whitey and human-up. Savagery will and should beget nothing but savagery in return.

Whether Hoft is stupid or racist, if the right-wing wants to claim that they’re actively dealing with their racism problem, they’ve clearly got a long way to go.

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149 comments

1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:46:46am

Jim Hoft is nearing the heights of racist dimmitude.

2 Mocking Jay  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:48:11am

re: #1 Johnny Derp

Jim Hoft is nearing the heights of racist dimmitude.

He is determined to reach the peak of Mount Stupid.

3 Kronocide  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:48:34am

Great post Charles. Hoft is actually both: a moron and a racist.

The justification for racist murder is beginning.

4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:51:08am

So, After reading what the Hoftard wrote i can go punch him in the neck, kick him in the balls and then throw him in the ditch and it's understandable because, after all, I am upset?

5 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:51:33am

re: #3 Kronocide

Great post Charles STLActivist. Hoft is actually both: a moron and a racist.

The justification for racist murder is beginning.

FTFY.

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:51:51am

re: #1 Johnny Derp

Jim Hoft is nearing the heights of racist dimmitude.

Or should I have said "circling the lows of..."?

7 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:52:04am

What's this like racial realist empathy or something?

8 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:52:32am

Violent crime has been declining for basically my entire life. It's a pretty big accomplishment while we still have our stupid war on drugs going on.

I wish people could be happy about this, instead of pretending that blacks are out there rapin' and murderin' and needin' puttin' down.

9 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:52:40am

It's one thing to be understandably upset over the murder of a loved one and to focus that upset on the person responsible.

It's quite another to channel that into shooting with intent to kill and cause mayhem attack two years following the murder people based entirely on the race of the person who committed the original murder. There's nothing understandable, let alone justifiable, about that. It was a hate crime and premeditated murder and/or attempted murder. The gunmen went out with the intent to shoot people of a specific background.

The OK incident is a ready-made hate crime prosecution. The alleged gunmen targeted a specific group based on race as revenge for the murder of one of the gunman's father.

The only reason that these people were targeted by the gunmen were because they're black.

10 Kronocide  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:55:37am

re: #5 wrenchwench

FTFY.

Oh damn. Great post STL Activist!

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:55:55am

re: #4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

So, After reading what the Hoftard wrote i can go punch him in the neck, kick him in the balls and then throw him in the ditch and it's understandable because, after all, I am upset?

It would be very understandable, but still illegal.

Also, not actually parallel to this situation, because you would be mad at Jim Hoft, and retaliating for something he did. It would be parallel if you went out punching and kicking all the white men you encountered.

12 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:56:32am

Dim Jim sure does live up to that moniker a lot.

13 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 9:58:25am

And Jefferson is serving time for shooting England's father. I guess Oklahoma doesn't have a Stand Your Ground law like Florida's.
///

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:00:34am

It's just a sad, tragic, stupid case.

Have they published anything about the victims? Profiles, or photos?

15 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:02:08am

It sucks his father was murdered but he's no better than the killer. What s it with right wing bloggers excusing bigots like this.

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:04:49am

Some of the comments at Hoft's place are quite decent, or at least, not siding with the killers. Others are doing the usual crap.

The fact that the younger man is Cherokee, not white as initially reported, is making them manic at some sites, like Zimmerman, it's proof of something.

Weirdest comment, however: It takes time to grieve. Everyone does it differently. With all the notoriety of racism in MSM, it is a wonder that this happens. Anger does things with hurt. Murder for any reason is wrong, but the administration is intensifying all these feelings. Watch the rest of the summer.

17 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:06:00am

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

Some of the comments at Hoft's place are quite decent, or at least, not siding with the killers. Others are doing the usual crap.

The fact that the younger man is Cherokee, not white as initially reported, is making them manic at some sites, like Zimmerman, it's proof of something.

Weirdest comment, however: It takes time to grieve. Everyone does it differently. With all the notoriety of racism in MSM, it is a wonder that this happens. Anger does things with hurt. Murder for any reason is wrong, but the administration is intensifying all these feelings. Watch the rest of the summer.

Blaming the administration for people's lack of self control is stupid even for right wing blog commentors. So much for "personal responsibility."

18 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:06:38am

re: #13 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And Jefferson is serving time for shooting England's father. I guess Oklahoma doesn't have a Stand Your Ground law like Florida's.
///

I think he was convicted of pointing the gun not the actual shooting. He did only get something like a six year sentence.

19 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:07:30am

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

Some of the comments at Hoft's place are quite decent, or at least, not siding with the killers. Others are doing the usual crap.

The fact that the younger man is Cherokee, not white as initially reported, is making them manic at some sites, like Zimmerman, it's proof of something.

Weirdest comment, however: It takes time to grieve. Everyone does it differently. With all the notoriety of racism in MSM, it is a wonder that this happens. Anger does things with hurt. Murder for any reason is wrong, but the administration is intensifying all these feelings. Watch the rest of the summer.

Looks like the usual Obama derangement combined with MSM derangement.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:08:39am

OK, I apologize, THIS is the weirdest comment: Declaring themselves to be Christians, these men have committed a grave sin. If they were Mohammedans, the revenge killings would be praised by the imam, and the murderers promised a reward in Paradise. It appears that blacks have overplayed their violent hand, and the tipping point for Helter-Skelter is very close. Thank you Barry Soetoro, Community Disorganizer. Powder dry.

Translation: these guys have committed a grave sin, but since I dislike many other people much more than them, I'm gonna give all of those people a shout-out in this post.

21 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:09:15am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I apologize, THIS is the weirdest comment: Declaring themselves to be Christians, these men have committed a grave sin. If they were Mohammedans, the revenge killings would be praised by the imam, and the murderers promised a reward in Paradise. It appears that blacks have overplayed their violent hand, and the tipping point for Helter-Skelter is very close. Thank you Barry Soetoro, Community Disorganizer. Powder dry.

Translation: these guys have committed a grave sin, but since I dislike many other people much more than them, I'm gonna give all of those people a shout-out in this post.

My head hurts reading that.

22 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:09:49am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I apologize, THIS is the weirdest comment: Declaring themselves to be Christians, these men have committed a grave sin. If they were Mohammedans, the revenge killings would be praised by the imam, and the murderers promised a reward in Paradise. It appears that blacks have overplayed their violent hand, and the tipping point for Helter-Skelter is very close. Thank you Barry Soetoro, Community Disorganizer. Powder dry.

Translation: these guys have committed a grave sin, but since I dislike many other people much more than them, I'm gonna give all of those people a shout-out in this post.

Powder dry? What a freaking nut. That one need a looking over by the Secret Service.

23 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:10:31am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I apologize, THIS is the weirdest comment: Declaring themselves to be Christians, these men have committed a grave sin. If they were Mohammedans, the revenge killings would be praised by the imam, and the murderers promised a reward in Paradise. It appears that blacks have overplayed their violent hand, and the tipping point for Helter-Skelter is very close. Thank you Barry Soetoro, Community Disorganizer. Powder dry.

Translation: these guys have committed a grave sin, but since I dislike many other people much more than them, I'm gonna give all of those people a shout-out in this post.

"The tipping point for Helter Skelter." These freaks are now citing Charles Manson's bizarre race war fantasy with approval.

24 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:11:54am
25 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:12:10am

re: #22 Gus

Powder dry? What a freaking nut. That one need a looking over by the Secret Service.

I also think they invented this cool thing called a 'cartridge' to keep the powder dry sometime in the 18th century.

26 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:12:28am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

"The tipping point for Helter Skelter." These freaks are now citing Charles Manson's bizarre race war fantasy with approval.

Good catch.

27 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:13:10am

re: #25 Obdicut

I also think they invented this cool thing called a 'cartridge' to keep the powder dry sometime in the 18th century.

No doubt he's sitting there in his tricorne hat and pantaloons.

28 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:13:49am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

"The tipping point for Helter Skelter." These freaks are now citing Charles Manson's bizarre race war fantasy with approval.

Hoft is also linking to some Brietbart audio this morning of the black panthers preparing for race war. it's pretty heavily edited but plausibly true. I'm sure the black panthers and the neonazis would love to have a go at each other.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:16:49am

They keep talking about 'race war', as though it's actually happening.

30 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:17:25am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Hoft is also linking to some Brietbart audio this morning of the black panthers preparing for race war. it's pretty heavily edited but plausibly true.

Have you learned nothing?!?

/maybe, maybe not...

31 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:17:27am

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

They keep talking about 'race war', as though it's actually happening.

The reason of course is because they want a "race war."

32 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:18:20am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Hoft is also linking to some Brietbart audio this morning of the black panthers preparing for race war. it's pretty heavily edited but plausibly true. I'm sure the black panthers and the neonazis would love to have a go at each other.

I no longer give Breitbart's site or associates the benefit of any doubt at all.

And yes, probably the New Panthers and the Neo Nazis would love a free-for-all, but they'll have to figure out some way to meet up on their own.

33 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:18:28am

re: #31 Gus

The reason of course is because they want a "race war."

Just like they want Obama to persecute them.

34 iossarian  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:21:13am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Hoft is also linking to some Brietbart audio this morning of the black panthers preparing for race war. it's pretty heavily edited but plausibly true. I'm sure the black panthers and the neonazis would love to have a go at each other.

Actual audio: "The last thing we want is to give in to prejudices based on race. There are people who want to turn this into a war - we must resist this course of action.

Breitbart-edited audio: "we want ... race ... war"

PLAUSIBLE TRUTHFACT

35 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:21:56am

It is understandable that he is upset. His father died. That would make anyone upset.

Randomly killing men who just happened to share a visual feature (skin color) with the man who killed your father is not understandable. If the killer had had red hair, would that justify killing men with red hair? A beard? Freckles? Tall? Short?

36 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:22:38am

re: #35 Mostly sane, most of the time.

It is understandable that he is upset. His father died. That would make anyone upset.

Randomly killing men who just happened to share a visual feature (skin color) with the man who killed your father is not understandable. If the killer had had red hair, would that justify killing men with red hair? A beard? Freckles? Tall? Short?

Precisely.

37 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:22:45am

I think some of you here have hit it on the head. There's a sizable group of folks in the United States who 1) blame our troubles on African Americans and 2) are itching for a race war. The folks who rallied behind Zimmerman are cut from the same cloth.

38 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:23:00am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

I think both bunches would much rather attack unarmed people, myself, to the extent they want actual violence.

And there's a lot more Nazis out there than there are New Black Panthers. It'd be a completely unfair fight.

Why do you think they want to fight each other? I mean, they could find each other if they wanted to do that, right?

39 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:23:11am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Hoft is also linking to some Brietbart audio this morning of the black panthers preparing for race war. it's pretty heavily edited but plausibly true. I'm sure the black panthers and the neonazis WINGNUTS would love to have a go at each other.

FTFY

40 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:23:18am

Again, I expect bad things come November.

Anyone think differently? I see the Conservatives as being unhinged and violent.

41 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:25:20am

re: #40 ProGunLiberal

Again, I expect bad things come November.

Anyone think differently? I see the Conservatives as being unhinged and violent.

I hope you're wrong.

42 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:25:22am

re: #37 ReamWorks SKG

A 'race war' is such an impossibility it's hard to really talk about. I think that the Nazis want US politics to continue to lurch towards the nativist right, but I think they're all out of time; the current revanchist position of the GOP is demographically doomed.

43 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:25:37am

re: #40 ProGunLiberal

Again, I expect bad things come November.

Anyone think differently? I see the Conservatives as being unhinged and violent.

If they were going to be massively violent, they would have done it already. They incite the unhinged, who commit violence, but not in a massive, organized way.

Mostly they talk and type.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:28:59am

re: #40 ProGunLiberal

Again, I expect bad things come November.

Anyone think differently? I see the Conservatives as being unhinged and violent.

I see 99.99% of the wingnut wailers as being keyboard warriors who will never do anything that there might be consequences for.

That remaining small group, unfortunately, remains a threat, as always. Undoubtedly, a few will try to commit violence. God willing, good law enforcement, alert minds, and, as always, the Secret Service, will foil any plots that arise.

45 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:29:33am

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Hoft is also linking to some Brietbart audio this morning of the black panthers preparing for race war. it's pretty heavily edited but plausibly true. I'm sure the black panthers and the neonazis would love to have a go at each other.

Fake but accurate.

:P
Besides, the entirety of the NBPs can fit in a minivan.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:29:50am

re: #45 Varek Raith

Fake but accurate.

:P
Besides, the entirety of the NBPs can fit in a minivan.

So, ROAD TRIP!!!!

47 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:30:46am

re: #45 Varek Raith

Fake but accurate.

:P
Besides, the entirety of the NBPs can fit in a minivan.

Image: minivan.jpg

48 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:31:48am
49 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:32:46am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

So, ROAD TRIP!!!

OK, it's got to be a movie. The NBP want to go to Florida to fight the Sanford Neo Nazis, so they all pile into a minivan, and take off cross-country. On the way, they engage in wacky hijinks and misadventures, and one of them falls in love. Maybe they also solve a mystery. And then there's a feel good ending, and lots of fart jokes.

50 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:33:11am

re: #48 Interesting Times

I have to say, Rush Limbaugh is good for a chuckle every now and then. The Neo-Nazis aren't. (Of course, Limbaugh is not as funny when you realize the number of people who accept what he says without question.)

51 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:39:38am

Daily Caller hits CNN for using racial slurs on air... while reporting on hate crimes

Candiotti used the “n” word while reading aloud what one of the suspects in the shooting, 19-year-old Jacob England, wrote recently on his Facebook page.

“Now, this, according to relatives, has troubled him ever since and CNN has also discovered what police have,” Candiotti said. “There was a Facebook posting made just the other day, written by the suspect in this case, that police are examining.”

“And it reads like this: ‘Today is two years that my dad has been gone, shot by’ — and please excuse the language, it’s very sensitive — ‘Shot by a fucking n****r. It’s hard not to go off between that and [England's fiancée] Sheran.’”

At the end of Candiotti’s segment, “CNN Newsroom” anchor Fredricka Whitfield apologized to viewers for the slur.

The Daily Caller is an embarassment

52 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:40:50am

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, it's got to be a movie. The NBP want to go to Florida to fight the Sanford Neo Nazis, so they all pile into a minivan, and take off cross-country. On the way, they engage in wacky hijinks and misadventures, and one of them falls in love. Maybe they also solve a mystery. And then there's a feel good ending, and lots of fart jokes.

Yeah but who is going to play the crazy white sidekick who thinks he is black or the white "superhottie" love interest for the handsome and suave NBP leader? You know the Hollywood people are going to insist on at least one, if not both, "all black" films don't sell tickets, is one of their mantras after all.

53 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:45:27am

re: #51 Kragar

Daily Caller hits CNN for using racial slurs on air... while reporting on hate crimes

The Daily Caller is an embarassment

Pathetic. This is how right wingers "think" these days. They have a vague understanding that the N word is frowned upon, but instead of getting that it's the underlying racism that's the real problem, they focus on the literal WORD itself. And they attack people who use the word in order to point out racism, as if the mere fact of using the word makes them racists.

It's such crap. Some of them know it's crap, and are cynically using it as an attack anyway. But many of them are just plain stupid enough to fall for it.

54 steve_davis  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:50:53am

kind of a false dichotomy. there's no reason why people can't be both evil and dense at the same time. in my experience, it seems to be a very workable combination, at least as far as department chairs go.

55 funky chicken  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:51:33am

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, it's got to be a movie. The NBP want to go to Florida to fight the Sanford Neo Nazis, so they all pile into a minivan, and take off cross-country. On the way, they engage in wacky hijinks and misadventures, and one of them falls in love. Maybe they also solve a mystery. And then there's a feel good ending, and lots of fart jokes.

I'd find it a more satisfying story if both sides got to be martyrs for their glorious cause at the end though.

56 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:54:20am

re: #38 Obdicut

I think both bunches would much rather attack unarmed people, myself, to the extent they want actual violence.

And there's a lot more Nazis out there than there are New Black Panthers. It'd be a completely unfair fight.

Why do you think they want to fight each other? I mean, they could find each other if they wanted to do that, right?

I think the neo Nazis and Panthers just want to feed off each other's hate and gin up as much chaos in the community as they can. I think both of them would love to inspire vigilantes, rioters and gangs to do the dirty work. They're just there to instigate.

57 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:56:36am
58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:57:38am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

man I heard there was a movie on this weekend that had white people using the N word a lot...had to of been racist!

59 nutz4Tuna  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:57:52am

Where is Jim 'Dim' Hoft's DERP photo? The article isn't the same without it.

60 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:58:58am

re: #59 nutz4Tuna

Where is Jim 'Dim' Hoft's DERP photo? The article isn't the same without it.

Here's one.

61 sean6886politik  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:59:17am

I'm sorry the man (England) was dealt some bad cards in life but his Father and Sisters boyfriend took matters into their own hands rather than asking law enforcement to handle it. Not that it justifies death but he took on risk. England should of found solace that this didn't occur in Florida where Jefferson would have been freed as he would have been standing his ground in self defense-after all, England's Father sought out Jefferson to cause trouble on that day, not the other way around.
With that said, this is a clear case of a hate crime. It doesn't matter how distraught England was. He should have sought help-but maybe any no or low cost services that could have helped him and spared lives were probably cut out of OK's budget long ago.
England and his co-hort sought out black people to shoot and kill in revenge for his Father's death. They were picked at random. The people shot were attending to their everyday lives-lives that England and his co-hort had no regard for. To them, they were just n...ers. They defined them as lower than human. They defined them as not fit to live. They defined them as less than themselves. They defined them as nothing because of the color of their skin.
And now, Jim Hoft feels spurned because he feels the same way. He didn't use the N word but he chose to stereotype all black people. Lumping them in with food stamps and crime. He goes so far as to call them, "savages".
A large portion of the white GOP want to do everything they can to say they are not racist-and then they write and say stuff like this on a daily basis. They defend people like George Zimmerman on a daily basis all while portraying Trayvon Martin as a, "thug" as if he deserved what he got.
These loose gun laws have nothing to do with protecting your body and property after hurricanes. They're set up to protect you, GOP white man, from the black people you fear the most.
3 people in Oklahoma are dead because someone thought their lives meant nothing due to the color of their skin. These two men should face harsh punishment and I hope others who think like they do really watch and learn from this but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.

62 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 10:59:52am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I think the neo Nazis and Panthers just want to feed off each other's hate and gin up as much chaos in the community as they can.

So you don't think they actually want to fight each other?

I think both of them would love to inspire vigilantes, rioters and gangs to do the dirty work. They're just there to instigate.

I think that the Nazis are just the far end of the nativists, who have a lot of actual political power in this country-- explicitly nativist laws, crafted by white supremacists, actually get passed.. The New Black Panthers don't really have a counterpart with actual power in this country. So the comparison isn't really a good one.

63 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:01:05am

Pat Robertson Tells Man to Tithe Against Wife's Wishes because 'You are the Boss'

Today on the 700 Club, Robertson urged a man also facing financial stress to continue tithing and also to shoot down his wife’s objections, telling him, “you know big man, you are the boss.” Robertson said that as the “high priest of the family” and the “man of the house,” the husband should “man up” and shouldn’t “vacillate” in the face of his wife’s doubts about tithing despite the family’s tight budget.

Yeah, got to make sure those godly men can keep paying for those limos and pet mobile homes

64 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:01:31am

re: #60 Gus

Here's one.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

65 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:02:20am

re: #64 Kragar

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

66 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:02:58am

re: #60 Gus

Here's one.

Poor Beaker, just because he has a speech impediment some people assume that he must be as stupid as Jim Hoft...

67 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:03:15am

re: #63 Kragar

Pat Robertson Tells Man to Tithe Against Wife's Wishes because 'You are the Boss'

Yeah, got to make sure those godly men can keep paying for those limos and pet mobile homes

Look at those cavemen go.

68 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:03:59am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Look at those cavemen go.

Mongo is offended by broad brush insult!

69 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:08:18am
70 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:08:57am

Meanwhile, over at CPAC favorite VDARE:

This again vindicates VDARE.com. For ten years, we have been arguing that simple arithmetic suggests the simplest path to victory for the GOP was, not futile “outreach” to minorities, but “inreach”—mobilizing its own white base. We call it “The Sailer Strategy” after our writer Steve Sailer, who has written extensively about it on VDARE.com. In 2010, it began to happen.

But this also explains the mounting hysteria of the Left. American politics are now profoundly unstable. Eventually, the Left will indeed succeed in Electing A New People—but for the next few election cycles, whites still cast by far the largest proportion of votes. And the white vote is tipping away from the Left.

At all costs, the Left must keep the historic American nation from uniting—until it is drowned through immigration. It must cow the historic American nation into accepting its subjugation.

Of course, this explains the elevation of the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman case into the Crime of The Century. The object: to rally the Left’s minority base; and to intimidate America’s white majority.

In contrast, the much more numerous and objectively far more atrocious black-on-white killings—for example, the 2010 Pearcy Massacre, an Arkansas home invasion in which five whites were killed—receive absolutely no national and often no local publicity, except on VDARE.com.

71 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:10:19am

re: #70 Gus

Meanwhile, over at CPAC favorite VDARE:

You know, I'm white, and the fear of minorities these people have is downright embarrassing.

72 erik_t  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:11:46am
In contrast, the much more numerous and objectively far more atrocious black-on-white killings—for example, the 2010 Pearcy Massacre, an Arkansas home invasion in which five whites were killed—receive absolutely no national and often no local publicity, except on VDARE.com.

Maybe it's silly semantics, but I'd be way less creeped out if they were referring to 'black people' instead of 'blacks' and 'white people' instead of 'whites'.

73 justaminute  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:16:58am

At least in Tulsa we had an arrest really fast unlike Sanford. In Oklahoma, the KKK made a publicized visit to Oklahoma the week before. Then the shooting happens and not one word about them. Tulsa had an unfortunate history during the civil rights years, we don't need the Jim Hoft's of the world throwing pooh into that situation. So far Tulsa has done pretty well in this situation, they should be commended.

The suspects have to post a $3 million bail and numerous counts of murder and other charges. Hate crimes are still being investigated.

74 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:19:04am

re: #72 erik_t

Maybe it's silly semantics, but I'd be way less creeped out if they were referring to 'black people' instead of 'blacks' and 'white people' instead of 'whites'.

It's VDARE. You should feel creeped out no matter what.

75 Randall Gross  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:20:08am

This tweet would be good basis for follow-up on the NRO firing of Derbyshire, and follow up is almost demanded since NRO is hoping the headlines died out over the weekend. If I weren't stuck at work...

76 sean6886politik  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:22:07am

re: #63 Kragar

Not too long ago, he also told a man seeking advise that it's not cheating if you're married to a woman with alzheimers and sleep with someone else because she's already gone.

77 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:25:32am

re: #76 sean6886politik

Not too long ago, he also told a man seeking advise that it's not cheating if you're married to a woman with alzheimers and sleep with someone else because she's already gone.

Man of God right there.

78 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:28:49am

Lou Engle takes credit for no deaths in Texas tornadoes

"We didn't gather here to have a nice little worship service!" he informed the crowd. "We're actually creating a throne," he explained, to contain God and the "angelic hosts by the thousands" who would be attending the rally. Many of them, he said, had come with 39 women, part of an organization called Back To Life, who had just walked from Houston to Dallas to protest legal abortion's roots in Texas.

"Who would have guessed that when they crossed over the county line of Dallas, 12 tornadoes exploded," Engle cried. "And no deaths!" The tornadoes, the hail, the grounded planes at the airport -- all of this, he told the women and girls and more than a few men in the crowd -- were a sign that God would hear the prayers of those assembled, and use them to influence worldly affairs.

"Thank God for the Texas Legislature," added another woman, part of a long parade of speakers who came onstage, said a few words, and disappeared without introduction. "And thank God for Rick Perry. I want you to know that you put them in office," she told the crowd, who cheered wildly. "And they are moving heaven and Earth."

79 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:36:49am

re: #78 Kragar

I can't stand people who think that god saves some people and doesn't save other people, based on how much you beg him to. That wouldn't be the actions of a beneficent being, but a cruel, vain asshole.

80 leftynyc  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:38:33am

Also, apparently is was G-d's will for those who got hurt, who had their homes or businesses destroyed. I'm very puzzled by that type of thinking.

81 justaminute  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:38:50am

re: #78 Kragar

They should be thanking God for the National Weather Service. Texas is cutting funding for them. We live in Tornado Alley here and it would be a looming disaster to deal with the weather in the future. 'No deaths' are more of a testament to the National Weather Service.

I sometime get annoyed when the weather is dicey and all the news channels knock regular programming off the air for tornado coverage but when you see that it is heading your way and the damage that it caused all you can say is "Thank God" for the coverage. I can't imagine living in Oklahoma with out the early warning.

82 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:39:27am

re: #79 Obdicut

I can't stand people who think that god saves some people and doesn't save other people, based on how much you beg him to. That wouldn't be the actions of a beneficent being, but a cruel, vain asshole.

I'm more inclined to blame Engle's rabble for 12 tornadoes hitting when they crossed the county line than I am to give them credit for no one dying.

83 The Left  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:40:09am

re: #80 leftynyc

Also, apparently is was G-d's will for those who got hurt, who had their homes or businesses destroyed. I'm very puzzled by that type of thinking.

The logical extension of this kind of thinking is that bad things only happen to people who must deserve it somehow, a conclusion that a sizeable section of the American electorate finds just peachy.

84 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:42:32am

OT: Newt is close to ending his run for President. Read more: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

85 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:42:55am

re: #80 leftynyc

Also, apparently is was G-d's will for those who got hurt, who had their homes or businesses destroyed. I'm very puzzled by that type of thinking.

It's an overly entitled, special snowflake type of religious belief that has always pissed me off. It's the attitude that says that if you're more overtly pious and showy in your prayers and your "love" of Jesus and/or God, then you'll get treated better than the heathens who aren't as special as you, or who don't pray as hard.

There's a lot of that shit here in the South. It's annoying.

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:43:27am

I am understandably hungry. I will now go and rob a grocery store.

87 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:44:32am

re: #85 Lidane

And it's a point of view that was explicitly repudiated in the goddamn old testament, in the story of Job.

88 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:44:47am

re: #86 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Don't rob a store. Just raid the pantry like everybody else. /

89 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:45:11am

re: #88 PhillyPretzel

Don't rob a store. Just raid the pantry like everybody else. /

The kids got there first.

90 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:46:31am

re: #84 PhillyPretzel

OT: Newt is close to ending his run for President. Read more: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Bye, bye.

91 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:48:08am

re: #87 Obdicut

And it's a point of view that was explicitly repudiated in the goddamn old testament, in the story of Job.

You mean the same Old Testament that many of these same people consider irrelevant or quaint because once Jesus came around, all those old rules and stories didn't matter anymore?

I wish I was kidding, but there are plenty of people who feel that way.

92 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:51:44am

re: #83 Millicent Islam

The logical extension of this kind of thinking is that bad things only happen to people who must deserve it somehow, a conclusion that a sizeable section of the American electorate finds just peachy.

At 59, I've lived a pretty charmed life, IMO. Never got hit by a tornado, ducked out of a couple of hurricanes with no damage or flooding, nothing more than a minor fender bender or two, been mostly very healthy. I must be a wonderful Christian, beloved by God and protected by angels.

No wait... I'm a lifetime godless heathen. And scientist. Elitist feminist and shit. So much for that theory.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:52:32am

Ya know, people suck.

Except on Kona, people there don't suck.

I think most of them are stoned.

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:55:30am

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

They keep talking about 'race war', as though it's actually happening.

They want one. It's a reality they can deal with.

Everyone getting along? Now that must just fry their little brains.

95 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:56:19am

re: #92 allegro

At 59, I've lived a pretty charmed life, IMO. Never got hit by a tornado, ducked out of a couple of hurricanes with no damage or flooding, nothing more than a minor fender bender or two, been mostly very healthy. I must be a wonderful Christian, beloved by God and protected by angels.

No wait... I'm a lifetime godless heathen. And scientist. Elitist feminist and shit. So much for that theory.

Scientists are details people.
The Devil is in the details.
You have obviously been protected for some purpose by the Devil himself.

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 11:57:17am

re: #38 Obdicut

I think both bunches would much rather attack unarmed people, myself, to the extent they want actual violence.

And there's a lot more Nazis out there than there are New Black Panthers. It'd be a completely unfair fight.

Why do you think they want to fight each other? I mean, they could find each other if they wanted to do that, right?

They need it sanctioned by a "higher authority" or some sort.

97 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:01:48pm

re: #76 sean6886politik

Not too long ago, he also told a man seeking advise that it's not cheating if you're married to a woman with alzheimers and sleep with someone else because she's already gone.

But you can't pull the plug --that would be murder!

What a piece of shit is Pat Robertson.

98 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:01:55pm

re: #95 No Monkey Man (Born With a Banana in my Hand)

Scientists are details people.
The Devil is in the details.
You have obviously been protected for some purpose by the Devil himself.

This guy? cool!

99 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:03:30pm

FWIW, Sanford FL has a long history in having poor race relations and one of the more prominent examples deals with Jackie Robinson before he joined the major leagues. He was in the farm system and was in Florida at the time:

The enormity of the challenge of crossing baseball's color line, accentuated by the awful trip to Florida, had become crystal clear to Jackie. His four-letter career as an athlete in college at UCLA and his World War II service as an officer in the U.S. Cavalry would carry no weight. There was no practice scheduled for Sunday, but Jackie and Rachel had to travel another 40 miles that day to Seminole County. Because there was an overabundance of postwar talent and Rickey had to work through nearly 200 prospects, he decided to keep the Dodgers in Daytona Beach and move the Royals to rural Sanford, Florida's celery capital. Rickey had arranged for them to stay with Mr. and Mrs. David Brock, a prominent black couple, at their large home, with its wide veranda. The team's lakefront hotel, the Mayfair, would not accept them.

Sanford, Florida

Anxiously, Jackie Robinson suited up in his Montreal Royals uniform for the first time on Monday, March 4, and reported to the park at 9:30 in the morning along with Johnny Wright. They were immediately stopped by reporters who largely ignored Wright but peppered Robinson with questions. When asked, "What would you do if one of these pitchers threw at your head?" Jackie replied, "I'd duck!" Dodgers scout Clyde Sukeforth then introduced Robinson to the Montreal manager, Clay Hopper. After two days of practice, Rickey and Hopper decided to switch Robinson's playing position to see if he could work out as a first or second baseman, rather than a shortstop where he was experienced.

Jackie's concern about competing with veteran players to remain on the Royals was interrupted when racism intruded. Branch Rickey had miscalculated the degree to which Jim Crow was entrenched in Sanford. As an example, an inanimate object, a second-hand piano, purchased in 1924 from the courthouse for use in a segregated school in nearby Oviedo, was filed as a "Negro Piano" in the school board's record; living human beings challenging segregation certainly would not be tolerated. A large group of white residents had met with the mayor of Sanford and demanded that Robinson and Wright be run out of town. At dinnertime on March 5, Sanford officials informed the Royals that black and white players would not be allowed on the same playing field together. Fearing that a mob might threaten them at the Brock house, Rickey sent Wright and the Robinsons immediately back to Daytona Beach. Deeply disturbed by the situation, Jackie talked about quitting and returning to the Negro Leagues, but Smith and Rowe again persuaded him to hang on.

[emphasis added] A colleague pointed this out to me when we were discussing the matter.

Seems that some longstanding issues have not been resolved in Sanford, and it's going to take more than a state attorney handing down an indictment against Zimmerman to make things right here. The DOJ investigation is likely to bring a whole host of civil rights charges against officials who blocked/thwarted the investigation at the early stages and therefore denied Martin due process and equal protection rights.

Moreover, when one looks at the SYG issue, one person who deserved SYG is the one who is now dead - Tayvon Martin. With Zimmerman following Martin around and had he survived, Martin could claim that he was in fear for his own life and safety and therefore under no duty to retreat. It goes back to the precipitating incident - namely that Zimmerman was the one following Martin around, not the other way around. Zimmerman and his lawyer would love if everyone focused on Martin and his conduct, but we would have to ignore what Zimmerman did to initiate the incident with Marin. With the investigations thwarted by the local PD, it brings back all the ugly history from decades ago - reopening old wounds.

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:04:54pm

re: #92 allegro

At 59, I've lived a pretty charmed life, IMO. Never got hit by a tornado, ducked out of a couple of hurricanes with no damage or flooding, nothing more than a minor fender bender or two, been mostly very healthy. I must be a wonderful Christian, beloved by God and protected by angels.

No wait... I'm a lifetime godless heathen. And scientist. Elitist feminist and shit. So much for that theory.

ya know. I've never had anything bad happen in my life either. I do things people think are heretical, but little children and animals still like me.

So, I figure Earth Mother approves.

101 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:05:02pm

re: #84 PhillyPretzel

Newt's the last one to know his campaign is toast. Denial aint just a River in Egypt....

102 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:05:56pm

re: #101 lawhawk

Newt's the last one to know his campaign is toast. Denial aint just a River in Egypt...

arrogant prick is Newt.

103 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:07:09pm
104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:07:13pm

gotta go book a submarine.

105 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:07:33pm

re: #99 lawhawk

Trayvon may have been the one who deserved to have the protection of stand your ground, but due to the vague, bad wording of the law, it can easily be interpreted as protected Zimmerman as well.

The law does not say anything about the precipitating incident beyond saying that someone can't use SYG if they were 'provoked'-- except if they were attacked in a way that made it impossible for them to flee, which is what Zimmerman is claiming.

Where in the language of the law are you seeing the 'precipitating incident' being a large factor?

106 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:08:27pm

re: #100 ggt

but little children and animals still like me.

Now THAT is a true test of righteousness. Kindness and compassion will always rule. Well that, laughter, and a goodly stocked bong. :)

107 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:09:42pm

re: #104 ggt

gotta go book a submarine.

Make mine a toasted ham and turkey. No onions.

108 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:11:36pm

re: #102 ggt

arrogant prick is Newt.

Come on, Newt can come back from this, it's just a flesh wound.

109 justaminute  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:14:55pm

I'm pretty sure they will rethink the funding in Texas after they have a tornado and the weather guy says "A monster of a storm is on the horizon, wish we had the funding to track it. You had better pray. Good luck." I can't believe how stupid they are. I can't figure out that they can't think that God gave someone a brain to develop all the new tracking equipment or God gave them the ability to pay for it. Some times considering the path that many of our tornadoes take, it's just remarkable that the National Weather Service in Norman, Oklahoma hasn't been hit or damaged. They should Thank God for that as it is were Texas gets their warning from.

110 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:20:12pm

Crap that makes you go hmm.

Why is "advice" pronounced "advīs" not "advīk"
but "advise" is pronounced "advīz" not "advīs"?

111 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:21:50pm

re: #105 Obdicut

If you're on a street, it isn't impossible to flee - simply run in the opposite direction from where the alleged assailant came from. The incident didn't occur on a dead end, cul de sac, or otherwise involve a group of people blocking avenues of exit. That makes the claim all the more dubious.

What I'm talking about with precipitating events deals with the chain of events and conduct of the respective parties.

Zimmerman starts following Martin.
Martin allegedly attacks Zimmerman.
Scuffle ensues.
Zimmerman shoots Martin.

Additional points in the timeline are fleshed out here.

If you consider Zimmerman following Martin the precipitating event, Martin gets the benefit of SYG and had no duty to retreat from Zimmerman because he could have felt himself threated with deadly force.

If you start with Zimmerman's claim that Martin hit Zimmerman first, then Zimmerman gets benefit of SYG.

The Sanford police and/or state attorney initially chose to start their analysis with the latter, and ignored the former.

112 JamesWI  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:23:04pm
England and his daughter’s boyfriend went looking for Jefferson at the apartment complex. When the found him, England hit him with a stick and knocked him to the ground.

Jefferson pulled out a gun and shot England in the chest

I don't know how anyone could be upset over that. Seems like a much better example of "Stand your ground" than the Zimmerman case. The right wing should be up in arms that Jefferson is even serving ANY jail time.

Oh wait, Jefferson is black and England was white? In that case, the right wing will understand England's son going on a murderous rampage against innocent black people.

113 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:24:23pm

re: #111 lawhawk

If you're on a street, it isn't impossible to flee - simply run in the opposite direction from where the alleged assailant came from. The incident didn't occur on a dead end, cul de sac, or otherwise involve a group of people blocking avenues of exit. That makes the claim all the more dubious.

Zimmerman's claim is that Trayvon was on top of him. Hence, impossible to flee.

What I'm talking about with precipitating events deals with the chain of events and conduct of the respective parties.

I asked for a reference from the law supporting the idea that precipitating events matter. Can you provide a reference from the SYG law that supports the idea that precipitating events matter?

It's my belief that the true stupidity of this law is that it gives both people in many altercations the right to lethal self-defense.

114 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:26:18pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Zimmerman's claim is that Trayvon was on top of him. Hence, impossible to flee.

I asked for a reference from the law supporting the idea that precipitating events matter. Can you provide a reference from the SYG law that supports the idea that precipitating events matter?

It's my belief that the true stupidity of this law is that it gives both people in many altercations the right to lethal self-defense.

[emphasis mine - you can't have it]

At least that way, if they kill each other nobody gets prosecuted and goes to jail.

115 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:27:23pm

re: #113 Obdicut

I think the claim that Zimmerman was on the bottom of the fight came from his father, not from GZ himself. And there have been several accounts from witnesses that pretty strongly indicate the truth was the opposite.

116 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:27:58pm
117 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:28:13pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

I think the claim that Zimmerman was on the bottom of the fight came from his father, not from GZ himself. And there have been several accounts from witnesses that pretty strongly indicate the truth was the opposite.

Something I have yet to hear... is Zimmerman in custody? Are his whereabouts even known?

118 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:29:55pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

I think the claim that Zimmerman was on the bottom of the fight came from his father, not from GZ himself. And there have been several accounts from witnesses that pretty strongly indicate the truth was the opposite.

Then it's possible that if Zimmerman following Trayvon is seen as 'provoking' the attack, then he wouldn't be defended by SYG. However, I think that's iffy; a legal precedent that just following someone around gives them leave to attack you would be kinda kooky.

119 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:31:44pm

re: #113 Obdicut

My notion of precipitating event comes from my reading of the law:

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

The section in bold is an element of the SYG defense. It requires that the person be: 1) not engaged in an unlawful activity; (2) attacked in any other place where he/she has a right to be;

gets the right to SYG and meet force with force.

You're right that the law as written creates the scenario where both parties to an altercation can claim SYG - that's what I'm saying here too. I'm just wording it differently from you. And I'm further noting that the way Zimmerman and his backers are spinning SYG, they write out the part where it is Martin who gains the benefit of SYG.

Moreover, if Zimmerman had no business carrying out his following of Martin (and the 911 tapes would seem to support the claim that he should not have continued following Martin), then he might not qualify under the 1st element above (because he was told not to continue following Martin by a law enforcement officer).

120 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:31:57pm

re: #118 Obdicut

Then it's possible that if Zimmerman following Trayvon is seen as 'provoking' the attack, then he wouldn't be defended by SYG. However, I think that's iffy; a legal precedent that just following someone around gives them leave to attack you would be kinda kooky.

If some guy who was unknown to me was following me in a car, then got out and started following me on foot, there is nothing kooky about feeling the need to defend myself. The guy is clearly up to no good and is highly likely intent on doing me harm.

121 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:32:39pm

re: #117 allegro

No. He's not in custody. He's still free, though his lawyer has stated that if charged, he would willingly comply with the arrest.

122 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:32:44pm

re: #110 Born Young

Crap that makes you go hmm.

Why is "advice" pronounced "advīs" not "advīk"
but "advise" is pronounced "advīz" not "advīs"?

Why did they wind the wound outside when they could have wound it out of the wind inside?

123 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:33:30pm

re: #119 lawhawk

But Zimmerman wasn't engaged in illegal behavior, and he had a right to be where he was. And the police officer did not tell him to stop following. He just said "We don't need you to do that". That's not a command.

124 justaminute  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:35:00pm

re: #112 JamesWI

I don't know how anyone could be upset over that. Seems like a much better example of "Stand your ground" than the Zimmerman case. The right wing should be up in arms that Jefferson is even serving ANY jail time.

Oh wait, Jefferson is black and England was white? In that case, the right wing will understand England's son going on a murderous rampage against innocent black people.

I don't have anything to back up my posts by I have read that OK police officers are not to happy with the Stand Your Ground laws. We may be the reddest of red states but I think some of the higher ups in the Justice System in Oklahoma protects us from our Legislature's stupidity. No proof of that statement either but so far we haven't had much stupidity. They did win the conviction of that Pharmacist who assassinated that one guy. And believe me, there was a lot of outcry from the gun lovers in Oklahoma n that case.

125 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:35:04pm

Got one here for ya.

National Review Writer Attends White Nationalist Gathering

Even have a pic of him laughing it up with James Edwards.

126 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:35:15pm

re: #120 allegro

If some guy who was unknown to me was following me in a car, then got out and started following me on foot, there is nothing kooky about feeling the need to defend myself. The guy is clearly up to no good and is highly likely intent on doing me harm.

There's a lot of innocent explanations for that, though, including that he's not really following you, it's actually coincidence, that it's mistaken identity, or that you dropped something that he's trying to return to you. The law isn't going to legitimize you hauling off and attacking him just for following you.

127 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:37:14pm

re: #122 Kragar

Why did they wind the wound outside when they could have wound it out of the wind inside?

OK, now you're just being silly. No language could possibly be that weird.

128 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:39:21pm

re: #127 Born Young

OK, now you're just being silly. No language could possibly be that weird.

They're going over there to set up their stuff.

129 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:41:58pm

re: #126 Obdicut

There's a lot of innocent explanations for that, though, including that he's not really following you, it's actually coincidence, that it's mistaken identity, or that you dropped something that he's trying to return to you. The law isn't going to legitimize you hauling off and attacking him just for following you.

If that guy got within arm's reach of me without any explanation of innocence such as, "Hey ma'am, I think you dropped this," or the like, his ass wound be on the ground (alive) if I could put it there and then run away. Of course, being a white woman, I would be excused, nay, praised for that action by police.

130 allegro  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:45:03pm

re: #129 allegro

If that guy got within arm's reach of me without any explanation of innocence such as, "Hey ma'am, I think you dropped this," or the like, his ass wound be on the ground (alive) if I could put it there and then run away. Of course, being a white woman, I would be excused, nay, praised for that action by police.

LOL should be WOULD. Kragar, damn you.

131 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:45:50pm

re: #129 allegro

Well, I guess you have to do what seems best, but I don't think that if you hurt the guy and it turned out that he thought you were an old friend/he's a process server/he mistook you for his estranged daughter/he's a deaf-mute that needed directions, that most cops would just write it off.

Process servers probably do get punched a lot.

132 Kragar  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:46:30pm

re: #130 allegro

LOL should be WOULD. Kragar, damn you.

THE DAY IS MINE!

I'm going for lunch, hold my calls.

133 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:47:17pm

re: #132 Kragar

THE DAY IS MINE!

I'm going for lunch, hold my calls.

Hold your own balls.

134 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:50:12pm

re: #125 Gus

Got one here for ya.

National Review Writer Attends White Nationalist Gathering

Even have a pic of him laughing it up with James Edwards.

There's a small typo that I kind of like, so don't fix it:

and Political Cesspool radio hose, James Edwards.

135 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:50:47pm

re: #134 wrenchwench

There's a small typo that I kind of like, so don't fix it:

LOL Thanks. I'll fix that.

136 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:52:42pm
137 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:52:51pm

Anyone else see anything? It's going to be promoted in a bit.

138 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:54:25pm

re: #137 Gus

Anyone else see anything? It's going to be promoted in a bit.

Wikipedia has an extra 'e' in the word with the link in it.

139 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 12:55:29pm

re: #137 Gus

Anyone else see anything? It's going to be promoted in a bit.

Oh, and there are pictures of ugly people there. Might want to take those out.

///

140 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:05:11pm

re: #138 wrenchwench

Wikipedia has an extra 'e' in the word with the link in it.

Thanks. OK. Got most of it. Added some of his trash:

Blacks generally have a well-deserved reputation for hair-triggered collective violence. Such mayhem is easily but unpredictably provoked — a routine traffic stop can destroy an entire neighborhood. While the actual turmoil may involve depraved underclass blacks, it is usually defended by middle-class black politicians and academics.

141 Lidane  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:05:31pm

Both Mark Steyn and Rich Lowry have posted about Derbyshire over at The Corner:

Mark Steyn -- Re: Derb

Andy, for what it’s worth, I regret the loss of John Derbyshire to National Review. Short version: Didn’t like the piece, but don’t think NR should have hustled him into the drive-thru guillotine on the basis of 24 hours of hysteria from the Internet’s sans-culottes.

Rich Lowry -- Derb

I shut off the comments on my posts over the weekend because there was no one to moderate them (so most comments would have stacked up unposted). Have at it, if you haven’t already somewhere else on NRO.

The comments on both pieces are exactly what you'd expect to see.

142 iossarian  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:07:12pm

LOL at conservatives claiming they "just don't see" racism, sexism etc. in their many, many, racist, sexist columnists.

143 iossarian  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:10:20pm

Reading right-wing journalism and not noticing the racism is a bit like reading Playboy and not noticing the tits.

144 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:13:46pm

re: #143 iossarian

Reading right-wing journalism and not noticing the racism is a bit like reading Playboy and not noticing the tits.

One features gigantic, unbelievable boobs. The other is a Hefner publication.

145 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:13:51pm

re: #143 iossarian

Reading right-wing journalism and not noticing the racism is a bit like reading Playboy and not noticing the tits.

I read it for the articles, I swear!

///

146 Gus  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:15:52pm

133 Tweets and rising.

147 sagehen  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 1:26:32pm

Charles:

the last couple of days, loading this site has been freezing and/or crashing my browser (Safari 5.0.6, OS X). Did you change something, or is the problem on my end?

148 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 2:17:19pm

re: #147 sagehen

Charles:

the last couple of days, loading this site has been freezing and/or crashing my browser (Safari 5.0.6, OS X). Did you change something, or is the problem on my end?

Well, that version of Safari is pretty out of date, but I use Safari 5.1.5 all the time with no trouble.

149 Mich-again  Mon, Apr 9, 2012 4:04:12pm

The right wingers are usually the first to want to throw the book at murderers (whenever the perp isn't one of their own) but recently when the wingnuts have gone out of their way to defend murderers for some extenuating circumstances.

Besides this case, we have George Zimmerman. The right clings to the excuse that Zimmerman was being beaten to death, even though he had no blood on him and the paramedics found no injuries worth even a band aid for treatment.

Then there was the soldier in Afghanistan who murdered 16 civilians including 9 children. The right has blamed that on PTSD.

Why did they get soft on crime? Just maybe because the victims weren't Caucasian Americans???


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