BREAKING: Official tells AP: Trayvon Martin’s killer to be charged with 2nd-degree murder; is in custody. -RAS
— The Associated Press (@AP) April 11, 2012
My first thought on this news is that prosecutors must have solid evidence to go for second degree murder. I expected manslaughter; this is considerably more serious.
1 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:43:25pm |
Freakout on the right in 3, 2, 1...
| 2 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:44:36pm |
If they've already got him in custody, that 'Don't look for him in Florida' statement from his (ex) lawyers must have been a red herring.
| 3 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:44:49pm |
False comparisons to the Duke Lacrosse case and claims that Obama is setting up a kangaroo court in 5..4..3..2..
Oh, and liberals want Zimmermann lynched in prison.
Also, too.
/
| 4 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:44:51pm |
That he's in custody so quickly after his lawyers stated they had no clue where he is gives me the impression that he was already in the process of turning himself in when they called that press conference.
| 5 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:44:58pm |
In custody already? That's a relief. I was worried about some sort of fleeing or barricading himself into a hotel room.
| 6 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:45:12pm |
Okay...let's see what celebrity lawyers show up to fuck this trial up like the Casey Anthony one. It is, after all, Florida.
Still, I'm glad to see he's in custody. I do hope he gets a fair trial...but that depends on if the media does its job and ignores the case for a few months then reports on the results.
| 7 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:45:58pm |
re: #2 makeitstop
If they've already got him in custody, that 'Don't look for him in Florida' statement from his (ex) lawyers must have been a red herring.
It's a Small World! He could be anywhere! (note to self...never try to hide at Disney)
| 8 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:46:14pm |
re: #6 darthstar
Still, I'm glad to see he's in custody. I do hope he gets a fair trial...but that depends on if the media does its job and ignores the case for a few months then reports on the results.
Chances, slim and none.
| 9 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:46:54pm |
re: #5 Obdicut
In custody already? That's a relief. I was worried about some sort of fleeing or barricading himself into a hotel room.
He's negotiating his bail bond with the producers of Dog the Bounty Hunter. They figure there's a miniseries in this.
| 10 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:47:10pm |
Isn't the distinction between manslaughter and murder whether the attack was intended to cause death? I.e., if you hit someone with your car or punch them in the temple and they die, it's hard to prove that you intended to kill them. But Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit, has probably taken gun safety classes, and is presumed to know that shooting someone in the chest is likely to result in death.
| 11 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:47:23pm |
Dear Police: No, you can't ignore it and it will just go away. Not in 2012.
| 12 |
Bubblehead II Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:48:40pm |
re: #2 makeitstop
re: #4 Targetpractice
re: #6 darthstar
According to Fox, he was out of State.
The official says authorities know knew where Zimmerman is was, and that they're planning to arrest him soon rather than let him turn himself in. The official says Zimmerman isn't in Florida. His arrest has been delayed partly because of Florida's "stand your ground" law.
Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 13 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:49:37pm |
re: #10 neilk
Isn't the distinction between manslaughter and murder whether the attack was intended to cause death? I.e., if you hit someone with your car or punch them in the temple and they die, it's hard to prove that they intended to kill. But Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit, has probably taken gun safety classes, and is presumed to know that shooting someone in the chest is likely to result in death.
I'm guessing there's an autopsy report that doesn't show powder residue on Trayvon...so Zimmerman might have been a few feet further back when he shot him. Watch for the defense to be "accidental discharge" which would support my first guess, which is that he had the safety off and a round in the chamber when he approached Trayvon Martin...like all good red-neck Steven Seagal/Chuck Norris fans who fantasize about being cops do.
| 14 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:49:40pm |
2nd deg. murder: [Link: definitions.uslegal.com...]
Manslaughter: [Link: definitions.uslegal.com...]
| 16 |
funky chicken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:49:53pm |
I worry they're gonna blow it by trying for a splashy conviction on a higher level charge. Prosecutors seem quite susceptible to overreaching, unfortunately.
| 17 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:50:04pm |
re: #12 Bubblehead II
re: #4 Targetpractice
re: #6 darthstar
According to Fox, he was out of State.
The official says authorities know where Zimmerman is, and that they're planning to arrest him soon rather than let him turn himself in. The official says Zimmerman isn't in Florida. His arrest has been delayed partly because of Florida's "stand your ground" law.
Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Rumor had it that daddy still owns a house in Virginia.
| 18 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:50:52pm |
I can't wait for the medical report on his injuries. Would a jury have the option of manslaughter if unable to convict on murder?
| 20 |
teleskiguy Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:51:30pm |
Trayvon Martin was killed 26 Feb. 2012. It's now 11 April 2012. His admitted killer is finally arrested.
Florida, man. That effing place! Carl Hiaasen is right, Florida is a Paradise Screwed.
| 21 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:51:36pm |
re: #6 darthstar
Okay...let's see what celebrity lawyers show up to fuck this trial up like the Casey Anthony one. It is, after all, Florida.
Still, I'm glad to see he's in custody. I do hope he gets a fair trial...but that depends on if the media does its job and ignores the case for a few months then reports on the results.
The lawyer handling Casey Anthoney is actually a damned good defense attorney. I don't agree with the verdict, but she does the best for her clients as she gets them. She was co-counsel on the infamous Brendan Butler case in Jacksonville, Florida where the Jax PD picked up a random 15 year old black kid for a murder that happened nearby, and then literally beat a confession out of him with their fists. The kid had nothing to do with the murder, of course. The defense absolutely destroyed the prosecution and the Jax POD on the stand. It is painful to watch in the documentary Murder on a Sunday Morning.
| 22 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:51:58pm |
re: #16 funky chicken
I worry they're gonna blow it by trying for a splashy conviction on a higher level charge. Prosecutors seem quite susceptible to overreaching, unfortunately.
Either they overcharged in the hopes of obtaining a plea bargain, because it was the highest they could go without a grand jury being impaneled, or because they're sitting on damned good evidence.
I'm hearing all kinds of theories now on why they went for 2nd degree.
| 23 |
samuraishake Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:52:05pm |
My first thought on this news is that prosecutors must have solid evidence to go for second degree murder. I expected manslaughter; this is considerably more serious.
Or they might not have enough evidence, so they're hoping the higher charge will persuade him to plea bargain to manslaughter.
| 24 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:52:30pm |
Florida is the most bizarre of the states.
| 25 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:52:48pm |
re: #21 celticdragon
The strategy in the Casey Anthony trial was to use the media to make the whole thing into a circus and take control of the trial away from the prosecution...the same strategy will work for Zimmerman.
| 26 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:53:13pm |
re: #20 teleskiguy
The wheels of justice turn slowly but grind exceedingly fine.
| 27 |
samuraishake Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:53:17pm |
| 28 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:54:00pm |
re: #13 darthstar
I'm guessing there's an autopsy report that doesn't show powder residue on Trayvon...so Zimmerman might have been a few feet further back when he shot him. Watch for the defense to be "accidental discharge" which would support my first guess, which is that he had the safety off and a round in the chamber when he approached Trayvon Martin...like all good red-neck Steven Seagal/Chuck Norris fans who fantasize about being cops do.
If they were as close as he claimed, there should be powder burns on Trayvon and possibly even a star shaped skin lesion where high velocity propellant gasses actually burn under the skin if the muzzle is touching the body or very close to it.
| 29 |
Bubblehead II Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:54:06pm |
re: #17 Targetpractice
Rumor had it that daddy still owns a house in Virginia.
Only question then is, will he fight extradition if he was in fact out of State?
| 30 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:54:40pm |
re: #29 Bubblehead II
Only question then is, will he fight extradition if he was in fact out of State?
According to the early reports, he's surrendering voluntarily, so I'm guessing not.
| 31 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:54:58pm |
I see the discussion of the possibility that the charges may be tactical. I think such tactics would be dirty. People should be charged without any thought about the "golden middle" sentence. Such tactics can also be used on innocent people.
| 32 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:54:59pm |
re: #27 samuraishake
I put it 2nd - behind Arizona.
Personally, I would vote for New Hampshire, but that's just because they're all batshit crazy there.
| 33 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:55:10pm |
re: #24 Charles Johnson
Florida is the most bizarre of the states.
Too easy. NJ is the most bizarre per square foot.
| 34 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:56:05pm |
re: #28 celticdragon
If they were as close as he claimed, there should be powder burns on Trayvon and possibly even a star shaped skin lesion where high velocity propellant gasses actually burn under the skin if the muzzle is touching the body or very close to it.
Are they going to need to/want to exhume Martin's body? That would be tough for the family, but I'm wondering how much physical evidence they might still be able to document...I guess it depends on how thoroughly the Sanford PD actually recorded the crime scene.
| 35 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:56:15pm |
re: #16 funky chicken
I worry they're gonna blow it by trying for a splashy conviction on a higher level charge. Prosecutors seem quite susceptible to overreaching, unfortunately.
I think it's actually a plea strategy. Going for Murder 2 would give them leeway to still plea down to manslaughter or some other lesser charge. If they'd gone for the lesser charge from the start they might not have as much room.
Of course, that's just my TV show legalese thinking. I'm not a lawyer. But it would make sense.
| 37 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:56:29pm |
re: #33 Decatur Deb
Too easy. NJ is the most bizarre per square foot.
You're only counting Chris Christie.
| 38 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:56:37pm |
re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist
Are they going to need to/want to exhume Martin's body? That would be tough for the family, but I'm wondering how much physical evidence they might still be able to document...I guess it depends on how thoroughly the Sanford PD actually recorded the crime scene.
I was thinking the same thing.
| 40 |
samuraishake Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:57:24pm |
re: #35 Lidane
Of course, that's just my TV show legalese thinking. I'm not a lawyer. But it would make sense.
That's pretty much how it works. I used to be a probation officer - the risk of spending life in prison makes 10 years seem like easy time. Most people take the offer.
| 41 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:58:10pm |
The people on something awful were hoping for something...else.
| 42 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:58:13pm |
And CNN legal analyst Mark Nejame, citing Zimmerman's new attorney, Mark O'Mara, reported that Zimmerman has turned himself in to law enforcement in Florida.
Anyone know anything about Mark O'Mara?
Here's his web site.
| 44 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:58:46pm |
re: #31 Johnny Derp
I see the discussion of the possibility that the charges may be tactical. I think such tactics would be dirty. People should be charged without any thought about the "golden middle" sentence. Such tactics can also be used on innocent people.
They are, every day. Most people can't afford competent council and so plead to the lower charge out of sheer fear even though they may well be innocent. That's 'Murkin Justice for you. (spit)
| 45 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:09pm |
When this item ran across the news feed I instantly thought of Zimmerman:
Do I look bigger with my finger on a trigger? Yes, says UCLA study
UCLA anthropologists asked hundreds of Americans to guess the size and muscularity of four men based solely on photographs of their hands holding a range of easily recognizable objects, including handguns.
The research, which publishes today in the scholarly journal PLoS ONE, confirms what scrawny thugs have long known: Brandishing a weapon makes a man appear bigger and stronger than he would otherwise.
"There's nothing about the knowledge that gun powder makes lead bullets fly through the air at damage-causing speeds that should make you think that a gun-bearer is bigger or stronger, yet you do," said Daniel Fessler, the lead author of the study and an associate professor of anthropology at UCLA. "Danger really does loom large — in our minds."
Researchers say the findings suggest an unconscious mental mechanism that gauges a potential adversary and then translates the magnitude of that threat into the same dimensions used by animals to size up their adversaries: size and strength.
"We've isolated a capacity to assess threats in a simple way," said Colin Holbrook, a UCLA postdoctoral scholar in anthropology and co-author of the study. "Though this capacity is very efficient, it can misguide us."
The study is part of larger project funded by the U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research to understand how people make decisions in situations where violent conflict is a possibility. The findings are expected to have ramifications for law enforcement, prison guards and the military.
"We're exploring how people think about the relative likelihood that they will win a conflict, and then how those thoughts affect their decisions about whether to enter into conflict," said Fessler, whose research focuses on the biological and cultural bases of human behavior. He is the director of UCLA's Center for Behavior, Evolution and Culture, an interdisciplinary group of researchers who explore how various forms of evolution shape behavior.
[...]
Study participants consistently judged pistol-packers to be taller and stronger than the men holding the other objects, even though the experiment's four hand models were recruited on the basis of their equivalent hand size and similar hand appearance (white and without identifying marks such as tattoos or scars).
To rule out the possibility that a feature of any one hand might influence the estimates, researchers had taken separate pictures of each hand holding each object — some participants saw the gun held by one hand model, others saw the same gun held by another model, and so on; they did the same thing for each of the objects. The researchers also shuffled the order in which the photos were presented.
On average, participants judged pistol packers to be 17 percent taller and stronger than those judged to be the smallest and weakest men — the ones holding caulking guns. Hand models holding the saw and drill followed gun-wielders in size and strength.
[...]
The role of guns and gun ownership in America as being signs of masculinity and of strength should not be under appreciated.
| 46 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:13pm |
re: #41 ProGunLiberal
The people on something awful were hoping for something...else.
What they were hoping for? GZ shot in flight?
| 47 |
Major Tom Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:32pm |
Martin was going to watch an all-star game on tv, was getting skittles for his brother, and tea for himself. If we are to believe that he, an unarmed, 17 year old boy, was intent on murdering someone on the way home, then we should just give up on this species.
| 48 |
wrenchwench Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:39pm |
2. SECOND-DEGREE MURDER — The crime of second-degree murder occurs when a person commits either murder with a depraved mind or accomplice felony murder.Murder with a depraved mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.
The primary distinction between premeditated first-degree murder and second-degree murder with a depraved mind is that first-degree murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.
The crime of second degree murder is classified as a first degree felony. If convicted of second degree murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:
Up to Life in prison.
Up to Life on probation.
Up to $10,000 in fines.
Read more here: [Link: www.miamiherald.com...]
| 49 |
Major Tom Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:53pm |
re: #24 Charles Johnson
Florida is the most bizarre of the states.
The heat does weird things to people.
| 50 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:56pm |
I don't know if I hope this is real, or if I hope it's fake:
[Link: twitter.com...]
| 51 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:56pm |
Wow.
Glad to see it happen. I'm still a little bit in awe of his NOT being arrested immediately... Even here in gun-slingin' Texas, deliberately going after somebody in the dark with a gun, against the word of a 911 operator, when you're not defending your home or property, is a likely ticket to the klink (I've got a CHL myself, and they practically beat conflict avoidance into you at the state-mandated training class... First rule of self-defense, no be there!).
Fuckin' Florida... Better late than never, though.
| 52 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 2:59:59pm |
re: #44 William Barnett-Lewis
They are, every day. Most people can't afford competent council and so plead to the lower charge out of sheer fear even though they may well be innocent. That's 'Murkin Justice for you. (spit)
That, of course, is not any sort of justice.
| 53 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:00:15pm |
re: #46 Johnny Derp
Here is one quote from a user named euphronius
If Zimmerman is unlawfully evading arrest does that mean under FLA SYG law anyone can shoot him since he in the process of committing a felony? Such sweet justice that would be.
| 55 |
wrenchwench Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:00:59pm |
re: #45 freetoken
When this item ran across the news feed I instantly thought of Zimmerman:
Do I look bigger with my finger on a trigger? Yes, says UCLA study
The role of guns and gun ownership in America as being signs of masculinity and of strength should not be under appreciated.
Too bad holding a bag of Skittles doesn't make one look like an innocent 17 year old boy.
| 56 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:01:17pm |
re: #53 ProGunLiberal
Here is one quote from a user named euphronius
You don't gotta bring their wishing-for-someone's-death bullshit over here.
| 57 |
Tigger2005 Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:01:20pm |
"I was a friend of Jamis. Jamis taught me...that if you kill somebody...you pay for it. I wish I'd known Jamis better."
--Paul Atriedes, Dune
| 58 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:01:39pm |
re: #48 wrenchwench
Yeah, classic "depraved indifference". Given some of the craziness in everything Zimmerman has done, that may well be fairly easy to show in court.
| 59 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:02:00pm |
re: #50 Satanic Ritual Kazoo
I don't know if I hope this is real, or if I hope it's fake:
[Link: twitter.com...]
I will assume fake until proven otherwise.
| 60 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:02:35pm |
re: #56 Shvaughn
I see it as just showing other reactions.
What is the likelihood of Zimmerman being found guilty? Because of the way evidence was handled, there isn't as much as usual.
| 61 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:02:42pm |
re: #53 ProGunLiberal
An interesting thought, in a purely theoretical way.
| 62 |
erik_t Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:02:49pm |
re: #56 Shvaughn
You don't gotta bring their wishing-for-someone's-death bullshit over here.
Wretched hive of scum and villainy.
| 63 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:03:09pm |
Prosecutor talking now on cable news...
| 64 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:03:21pm |
re: #57 Tigger2005
An interesting bit from that novel. Thanks for the reminder.
| 65 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:03:27pm |
re: #59 Johnny Derp
I will assume fake until proven otherwise.
Same. It's Twitter. Unless it's a verified account, anyone with a public figure's name should be considered fake as a default.
| 66 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:03:27pm |
re: #59 Johnny Derp
I will assume fake until proven otherwise.
Fake; it talks about a "court-appointed attorney" but Zimmerman already has his own attorney.
| 67 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:04:29pm |
re: #62 erik_t
Eh, it's from there I learned about the issues with TVTropes.
Also, how the hell are they going to select a jury? The whole country knows about the case.
| 68 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:04:37pm |
Jeeze lady, we get it. You're fair and honest. Move on.
| 70 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:05:26pm |
re: #66 Shvaughn
Fake; it talks about a "court-appointed attorney" but Zimmerman already has his own attorney.
This is not necessarily a good argument, since he may think his attys bailed on him. Still, assuming the fake.
| 72 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:05:57pm |
Is this woman announcing murder charges or claiming a winning lottery ticket.STOP SMILING— John Cole (@Johngcole) April 11, 2012
Also:
I know you are not this stupid RT @kathleenparker: Zimmerman charged: letting the system work? Or was the street necessary?— John Cole (@Johngcole) April 11, 2012
| 73 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:06:02pm |
re: #69 Gus
Seriously.
Ah, she's getting to some facts now.
....ooops back to talking shit again before I finished typing.
| 74 |
Ben G. Hazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:06:09pm |
re: #35 Lidane
I think it's actually a plea strategy. Going for Murder 2 would give them leeway to still plea down to manslaughter or some other lesser charge. If they'd gone for the lesser charge from the start they might not have as much room.
Of course, that's just my TV show legalese thinking. I'm not a lawyer. But it would make sense.
Same thinking here; from what we know about the whole sordid situation, I think the special prosecutor has to know that the SYG law and the laziness/possible complictness of the Sanford PD in trying to shuffle this under the rug would complicate the state's case in front of a jury and on appeal. Problem is, the family's pleas for justice would have been ignored, if not for the huge public outcry across the nation; the FL authorities (and the Feds, to an extent) are feeling intense pressure to do something about Zimmerman and this is Florida's answer.
IANAL, but I have little doubt that this is part of a strategy to get Zimmerman to cop to manslaughter, because murder 2 is gonna be awful hard to hang (and get it to stick) on him.
| 75 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:07:08pm |
As I expected, he turned himself in.
| 79 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:10:03pm |
but @dailycaller claimed George Zimmerman had a cut on his head!!!!— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) April 11, 2012
| 80 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:10:14pm |
OK, this is going the optimal way for now.
| 81 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:10:21pm |
re: #77 Gus
It'll take a sec to load. What questions?
| 82 |
Bob Dillon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:10:24pm |
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds follow.
| 83 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:10:34pm |
Good to see her school the press on the law.
| 85 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:11:20pm |
re: #24 Charles Johnson
I've heard enough stories about Florida to know that is so damn true.
Anybody want some? I got some goodies!
| 87 |
lawhawk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:11:59pm |
2d Degree? Hmm, probably a combination of strong evidence as well as the leeway to plea down to a lesser charge (murder 3/manslaughter) with reduced sentencing.
| 89 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:12:31pm |
re: #84 Gus
Ah, I see.
The trials gonna be hard enough as it is, with all the stuff that has happened.
Assuming the DoJ investigation of the corrupt Sanford PD will continue?
| 90 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:13:09pm |
re: #89 ProGunLiberal
Ah, I see.
The trials gonna be hard enough as it is, with all the stuff that has happened.
Assuming the DoJ investigation of the corrupt Sanford PD will continue?
I don't think there ever was a Justice investigation of the Sanford PD.
| 91 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:13:16pm |
re: #88 Gus
Probably 10 to life if I read correctly earlier.
Don't forget the mandatory sentencing enhancers for use of a gun in a crime.
| 92 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:13:20pm |
Twitter-watchers, what hashtag is trending now?
| 94 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:14:06pm |
re: #90 Gus
Not sure what I am thinking of then. There should be one: This is only the most recent incident with that police department.
| 95 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:14:22pm |
In other news, Charles Manson was denied parole today after saying he is "a very dangerous man." (That's code for "I'm happy to retire here with three squares a day and full medical attention.")
| 96 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:14:23pm |
Reality is that things still have a long ways to go. A judge could still throw this case out before it ever goes to trial.
| 97 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:14:29pm |
re: #92 Johnny Derp
Twitter-watchers, what hashtag is trending now?
Degree Murder
Angela Corey
It is Trayvon's
George Zimmerman
#justicefortrayvon
#2ndDegreeMurder
#AskMax
The Brooke
April 22 Beyonce End Of Time
| 98 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:14:32pm |
re: #18 Daniel Ballard
I can't wait for the medical report on his injuries. Would a jury have the option of manslaughter if unable to convict on murder?
It's the prosecutor's discretion, they could file both charges to cover the bases or try to box the jury in. Florida law classifies murder and manslaughter under different criminal codes.:
Murder in the second degree is defined in sections (2) and (3) of 782.04:
(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),
(b) Arson,
(c) Sexual battery,
(d) Robbery,
(e) Burglary,
(f) Kidnapping,
(g) Escape,
(h) Aggravated child abuse,
(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
(j) Aircraft piracy,
(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,
(l) Carjacking,
(m) Home-invasion robbery,
(n) Aggravated stalking,
(o) Murder of another human being,
(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or
(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,
by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
The argument could be that Zimmerman's behavior was imminently dangerous, but this could run agains his SYG rights to be where he was and the fact that the police instruction not to follow was worded in an incredibly passive way. In other words, was his "imminently dangerous" behavior clearly illegal in such a way that it voids SYG. A previous court allowed SYG to protect a man who pursued and stabbed a thief to death even thought he attempted to hide the evidence, sold third party property recovered from the thief and lied to police.
Alternatively if it can be established that Zimmerman lied and actually attempted to detain Martin the prosecutor could argue this constituted a false citizen's arrest and was technically kidnapping. I didn't bold (n) Aggravated Stalking because that would probably require a prior police or court finding a history of Zimmerman stalking Martin and injunction.
| 99 |
carlaschluge Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:14:32pm |
Defense counsel for Zimmerman better not be Jose Baez! He got lucky.
re: #91 William Barnett-Lewis
I understand min prison sentence is 16 3/4 years. Max., of course, is life.
| 100 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:15:09pm |
re: #97 Gus
In San Diego, only something called "Degree Murder" is on the trending list, down at #8.
| 101 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:15:16pm |
re: #97 Gus
Thanks.
| 102 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:15:20pm |
re: #94 ProGunLiberal
Not sure what I am thinking of then. There should be one: This is only the most recent incident with that police department.
That would be sheriff Arpaio in Arizona.
| 103 |
Tigger2005 Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:15:58pm |
I don't think Zimmerman will spend life in prison. But he'll be in there for a while.
| 105 |
garhighway Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:16:39pm |
| 106 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:16:49pm |
re: #24 Charles Johnson
Florida is the most bizarre of the states.
| 107 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:17:11pm |
From Balloon Juice:
That is the smile of a woman who has her sight on the governors office…everything is political.
I hope that is just needless cynicism.
| 108 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:17:18pm |
| 109 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:17:35pm |
| 110 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:19:22pm |
re: #104 freetoken
Same. SYG is going to make this hard.
Well, it's not just that. Because it is a murder charge and not manslaughter the prosecution will have to prove that Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon.
| 111 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:19:49pm |
re: #106 Obdicut
You have no idea. Story from two weeks ago:
Apparent boisterous bare-breasted brouhaha in Indian River County
| 112 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:20:21pm |
re: #107 celticdragon
From Balloon Juice:
I hope that is just needless cynicism.
Better her than the crook currently in that office...
| 113 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:20:22pm |
I knew it was bad news when it was announced that there would be no grand jury. The grand jury would have issued a “no bill” and there would have been riots. Our justice system is being held hostage by Jesse & Co.
---Absolute HORSE CRAP!!
---Welcome to Obama’s America
---Both political prosecution and persecution.
---Politicians know who will riot, burn and destroy and who won’t.
Politicians also know they will be held responsible for mayhem and even inconvenience.
It is a very easy call for a politician.
---I’m guessing that Obama will make sure the trial doesn’t begin until after the election.
Anyway, I wonder if Zimmerman will vote for Obama again this time around.
---This is absolute bullsh*t. This man was defending himself.
---Zimmerman is likely innocent, but will be put through meat grinder for sure. Even if found not guilty of these state counts, the federals will then bring “civil rights” charges. Like what happened to the Rodney King cops who ended up in jail for many years, even though found not guilty on the underlying charges.
So the constitutional ban on double jeopardy ends up being no obstacle to politically driven persecutions like these. If they decide to get him, they will get him.
---Ulsterman and the WSI/WHI are correct.
Race. Everything up, down, in, around, over, in back of, ahead of, circling, squatting, lying down. RACE.
The point is to have 13% of the population of the US, the Blacks, RULE. Everything.
Not just Whites. Asians. Hispanics. Indians. Mixed races. EVERYTHING.
And 0bama’s inner circle of Black-only security is living proof, press photo ops be damned.
Michelle, the grandmother, and all the hangars on are PLEASED.
---Listening to the presser, the women in red, I assume the persecutor(sic), sounds like she's reading a fairytale to 3rd graders on a public library field trip.
Zimmerman is so screwed.
---What a vile pandering bitch. Not shocked. Anyone still wanna talk about how she’ll do what the evidence says with all this romantic talk of “our victim”.
Is she for real?
---One more thing to add to your list ...
If Zimmerman was acting in any kind of official capacity for the HOA when he was patrolling the neighborhood, there's a good chance that the HOA bylaws (or Florida law) indemnify him in the event of legal trouble. So if/when he's acquitted of the charge(s), he may be able to sue the HOA to recover the cost of his legal defense.
How ironic is it that Trayvon Martin's father -- who lived in that neighborhood -- may ultimately end up helping pay Zimmerman's legal bills?
---S##T, I was really hoping Zimmerman was off in Brazil by now, especially since there is no extradition treaty between the US and Brazil. He could’ve been flipping the bird to Obama, Holder, and Holder’s people.
---America is a caste society upside down. The lowest caste rules by intimidating all others with threats of bloody riots.
---I am so sick of deference to Blacks. It makes me want to puke. I am giving up on trying to nice to these people. They are all spoiled rotten . They never worked a day in their life and its time to get our hoods on. This makes me sick!!
I hope they riot.
| 114 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:20:35pm |
re: #110 freetoken
I wonder if this is trying to force a plea deal.
| 115 |
engineer cat Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:20:59pm |
charge him with aggravated having nothing better to do and felony misunderstanding the stand your ground law
| 116 |
lawhawk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:21:05pm |
Note too he's got a new lawyer. Mark O'Mara, an Orlando lawyer and former prosecutor. His background is much more on point:
Mark M. O'Mara has been practicing Criminal and Family Law in Central Florida for 28 years, and is presently Board Certified as a Criminal Trial Specialist and a Marital and Family Law Specialist. Mark is a former felony prosecutor and Division Chief and has handled all types of criminal cases, including traffic, property crimes, DUI, drug cases and Death Penalty cases. He has extensive trial experience in both state and federal criminal defense. Mark also represents clients in contested divorce cases, involving child time sharing issues, alimony and division of assets. Mark is also involved in many Bar activities, including serving as President of the Seminole County Bar Association and serving on both Circuit and Federal Grievance Committees. He currently serves as the legal analyst for Central Florida's WKMG Channel 6.
From the CV, he seems much more capable of dealing with the media crush, as well as dealing with the legal issues of the case.
| 117 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:21:37pm |
re: #110 freetoken
Heh. At first I thought you having a conversation with yourself.
| 118 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:21:58pm |
re: #110 freetoken
Same. SYG is going to make this hard.
Well, it's not just that. Because it is a murder charge and not manslaughter the prosecution will have to prove that Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon.
No, they only have to show that he didn't care if Martin died. That's the whole "depraved" bit mentioned upthread. If they thought they could show intent, that's 1st degree capital murder.
| 119 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:22:02pm |
I dunno, I like how she handles the presser.
| 120 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:22:16pm |
Filing charges that can't stick seems like a bad strategy for forcing a plea. All he has to do is sit through the trial and then go free.
| 121 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:22:22pm |
re: #115 engineer cat
charge him with aggravated having nothing better to do and felony misunderstanding the stand your ground law
The SYG law isn't misunderstood, it's atrociously written.
| 122 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:22:41pm |
Our gun obsessed nation, from today's news:
2 USC students from China fatally shot off campus
Gunfire tore through the new 3-series BMW near the University of Southern California campus in the midnight rain, shattering the car's windows and striking the 20-year-old Chinese international student inside, police said.
Her companion, a Chinese student and the driver, was also struck in the shooting early Wednesday, but was able to run to a nearby house where he pounded on the door pleading for help, they said.
Soon, Ying Wu and Ming Qu were dead, and the search for their killer was on. Police suspect an attempted carjacking.
[...]
2 doctors dead in NJ murder-suicide
A doctor fatally shot a former colleague Wednesday whom he apparently blamed for his dismissal from a residency program over a year ago, then killed himself minutes later when police stopped his car.
Dr. Payman Houshmandpour, 32, a medical resident, was gunned down in his car Wednesday morning as he was pulling out of his parking spot at an upscale apartment complex in a Philadelphia suburb on his way to work at Virtua health system.
Giocondo Navek, 39, was waiting for the doctor to leave his home when he approached the car and fired several times, then sped away in his own vehicle, said Jason Laughlin, a spokesman for the county prosecutor.[...]
| 123 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:22:55pm |
re: #120 neilk
Filing charges that can't stick seems like a bad strategy for forcing a plea. All he has to do is sit through the trial and then go free.
And filing them for intimidation is unethical at the very least.
But I assume they have the evidence.
| 124 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:23:27pm |
re: #120 neilk
Filing charges that can't stick seems like a bad strategy for forcing a plea. All he has to do is sit through the trial and then go free.
First, it has to go to trial. This whole thing could very well be tossed at the special pre-trial hearing.
| 125 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:25:02pm |
re: #113 Lidane
Funny how they are so pro-law enforcement...espcially when it is a story about police brutality and students or people with brown skin are getting shot, pepper sprayed or beat in the head.
All of a sudden, the prosecutor is a facist Mugabe thug-ette working for Obama,
Interesting.
| 126 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:25:34pm |
re: #124 Targetpractice
Yes. Still, there's absolutely no good reason for her to file charges that aren't firmly supported by the evidence.
| 127 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:25:48pm |
| 128 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:26:29pm |
re: #118 William Barnett-Lewis
Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.
If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?
| 129 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:27:18pm |
re: #123 Johnny Derp
And filing them for intimidation is unethical at the very least.
But I assume they have the evidence.
They'd have to have some sort of evidence to file the charges. They clearly feel confident enough to file Murder 2.
The question, I believe, lies in being able to meet the burden of proof, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. If they don't think they can clear it, but that they have enough to convict on a lesser charge, then they'd offer a plea deal. I think. If all those legal TV shows I watch have taught me anything. Haha.
| 130 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:27:25pm |
re: #114 ProGunLiberal
I wonder if this is trying to force a plea deal.
I thought about that. I'm sure a plea bargain will always be available as is typical. He could plead guilty in exchange for manslaughter.
| 131 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:27:25pm |
re: #128 freetoken
Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.
If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?
No powder burns on Martin.
| 132 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:27:32pm |
re: #103 Tigger2005
I don't think Zimmerman will spend life in prison. But he'll be in there for a while.
He'll be out on bail by tomorrow.
| 133 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:27:50pm |
re: #128 freetoken
Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.
If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?
There is probably some evidence that we don't know about.
| 134 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:28:12pm |
re: #132 goddamnedfrank
He'll be out on bail by tomorrow.
Depends if they can paint him as a flight risk or not.
| 135 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:29:11pm |
re: #134 William Barnett-Lewis
Depends if they can paint him as a flight risk or not.
If he's already been out of the state, then that's not gonna be hard to prove.
| 136 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:29:23pm |
re: #129 Lidane
They'd have to have some sort of evidence to file the charges. They clearly feel confident enough to file Murder 2.
The question, I believe, lies in being able to meet the burden of proof, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. If they don't think they can clear it, but that they have enough to convict on a lesser charge, then they'd offer a plea deal. I think. If all those legal TV shows I watch have taught me anything. Haha.
Then they should simply charge him with the lesser charge. Again, I don't know what the real practice is, but charging for the sake of intimidation (i.e. making the subject more pliable for a plea bargain) is unethical (and should be criminal as far as I'm concerned).
| 137 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:30:20pm |
Comment for @DanRiehl's article at #Breitbart.com: "Eric Holder's DOJ = unleash his black savages onto white America" lgf.bz/HyhzAn— Charles Johnson (@Lizardoid) April 11, 2012
| 138 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:31:05pm |
re: #126 neilk
Yes. Still, there's absolutely no good reason for her to file charges that aren't firmly supported by the evidence.
There's plenty of reasons why she might file these charges, whether "good" or not depends on one's viewpoint. Before I heard 2nd degree, I figured it would be manslaughter on very solid evidence. Now? I'm beginning to lean towards over-charging for the purposes of scaring GZ into a plea bargain.
| 139 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:31:15pm |
re: #137 Charles Johnson
So, suddenly Zimmerman is white.
| 140 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:31:26pm |
re: #131 William Barnett-Lewis
No powder burns on Martin.
And thus he was shot from a distance. However, don't you think it will take more than that to convince the jury that Zimmerman was just frightened and, e.g., fired out of fear?
| 141 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:31:31pm |
re: #137 Charles Johnson
Wow, they are really losing it now.
| 143 |
carlaschluge Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:31:48pm |
If JustJay is around, I won the bet.
Corey confirms that Zimmerman turned himself in and is now in police custody.
[Link: www.wtsp.com...]
| 144 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:31:54pm |
re: #136 Johnny Derp
Then they should simply charge him with the lesser charge. Again, I don't know what the real practice is, but charging for the sake of intimidation (i.e. making the subject more pliable for a plea bargain) is unethical (and should be criminal as far as I'm concerned).
The SCOTUS has already recognized that plea bargaining is how most criminal cases are resolved. I don't like it either, but that is the lay of the land. Over-charging is the stick that the DA has to force you to accept a bargain.
| 145 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:32:15pm |
for 3 wks Fox couldn't stop talking about Zimmerman. today, as charges are filed against him Fox cuts away from press conference; #wow— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) April 11, 2012
Fox black outs prosecutor's press conf; reports on Syria; #denial @wow— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) April 11, 2012
| 146 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:32:17pm |
re: #134 William Barnett-Lewis
Depends if they can paint him as a flight risk or not.
He turned himself in swiftly and can plausibly argue that he won't be safe in jail. No matter how high the bail is set the Freepers will money bomb the amount within 24 hours. He's also got family and ties to the community. It's pretty obvious to me that he'll be out quickly.
| 147 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:32:34pm |
The Angela Corey #tcot freakout!
Make sure and click "all."
| 148 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:33:09pm |
re: #144 celticdragon
The SCOTUS has already recognized that plea bargaining is how most criminal cases are resolved. I don't like it either, but that is the lay of the land. Over-charging is the stick that the DA has to force you to accept a bargain.
Oh, sure. It's just it's still unethical, regardless of what the SCOTUS thinks.
| 149 |
lawhawk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:33:20pm |
re: #136 Johnny Derp
Prosecutors have a wide amount of leeway in charging. What they should be doing and what they are doing will differ. Some prosecutors will charge with the highest crime the evidence supports, and include all the lesser includeds, while others will pick and choose the charges. There are merits to both approaches.
However, plea deals work to the favor of both prosecutors and defendants. Reduces trial burdens/costs, certainty that isn't possible with going to trial, etc.
| 150 |
darthstar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:33:36pm |
re: #110 freetoken
Same. SYG is going to make this hard.
Well, it's not just that. Because it is a murder charge and not manslaughter the prosecution will have to prove that Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon.
SYG won't stand as a defense on this one. It worked to delay getting charged, but charged he is, and if SYG was any kind of a defense, then they wouldn't go for M2. I'm interested in the report on physical evidence recorded in the case - not that there was much, but if the distance was calculated to be more than point blank, and that is coupled with the fact that Zimmerman stalked Martin, and not the other way around, then SYG is about as effective as saying it was Obama's fault.
| 151 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:34:12pm |
re: #137 Charles Johnson
Some of Riehl's tweets are disgusting and sexist beyond belief. Damn.
| 152 |
Bubblehead II Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:34:27pm |
re: #135 Targetpractice
Not really. He was in touch with the P.A. He more or less turned himself in before the arrest, and if he was out of State, he didn't fight extradition and voluntarily returned. Why not grant him (I hope a significantly large) bail?
| 153 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:34:51pm |
re: #140 freetoken
And thus he was shot from a distance. However, don't you think it will take more than that to convince the jury that Zimmerman was just frightened and, e.g., fired out of fear?
Location of entry and exit wounds as well. If in the back, as one example, with no powder burns, then it's mighty hard to show him being scared of an unarmed teen.
I'm guessing there is something in the forensic evidence that the Sanford PD forgot to coverup or destroy that is making this level of charge possible.
| 154 |
CarleeCork Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:34:56pm |
re: #86 Charles Johnson
Possible life sentence.
Beats the hell out of the death sentence Trayvon received.
| 155 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:35:05pm |
re: #131 William Barnett-Lewis
No powder burns on Martin.
He didn't have any powder burns? Wow. That would mean he got shot from a distance, wouldn't it?
Kinda puts the lie to the whole epic fight to the death scenario.
| 157 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:35:22pm |
re: #149 lawhawk
Prosecutors have a wide amount of leeway in charging. What they should be doing and what they are doing will differ. Some prosecutors will charge with the highest crime the evidence supports, and include all the lesser includeds, while others will pick and choose the charges. There are merits to both approaches.
As long as the evidence supports, there's nothing wrong with it. It's overcharging - i.e. charging with more than the evidence supports with a sole intention to get someone to plea - that is obviously unethical. Blackmail, in fact.
| 158 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:35:39pm |
Comment for @DanRiehl's article at #Breitbart.com: "ANYTHING to keep the coloreds from burning the house down. SAD." lgf.bz/HyhzAn— Charles Johnson (@Lizardoid) April 11, 2012
| 160 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:36:04pm |
re: #128 freetoken
Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.
If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?
Play the 911 tape of the operator telling him not to follow Trayvon - which he did anyway.
| 161 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:36:29pm |
re: #160 makeitstop
Play the 911 tape of the operator telling him not to follow Trayvon - which he did anyway.
The operator did not tell him not to follow Trayvon.
| 162 |
freetoken Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:37:00pm |
re: #153 William Barnett-Lewis
Well, it just struck me that a manslaughter charge would have been pretty straightforward, but a murder charge will be a challenge.
| 163 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:37:08pm |
Hurrah for Justice!
Wolfinger and Lee should be investigated next.
| 164 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:37:08pm |
re: #155 Lidane
He didn't have any powder burns? Wow. That would mean he got shot from a distance, wouldn't it?
Kinda puts the lie to the whole epic fight to the death scenario.
WBL was answering a hypothetical.
| 165 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:37:37pm |
re: #160 makeitstop
Play the 911 tape of the operator telling him not to follow Trayvon - which he did anyway.
Except he didn't, because he couldn't. And even if he did, GZ was not legally obligated to obey.
| 166 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:38:09pm |
re: #155 Lidane
He didn't have any powder burns? Wow. That would mean he got shot from a distance, wouldn't it?
Kinda puts the lie to the whole epic fight to the death scenario.
No idea - I was simply suggesting an answer to the question. I do think there is some physical evidence backing up this charge however. Way too public for the usual prosecutorial misconduct.
| 167 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:38:30pm |
re: #147 Gus
The Angela Corey #tcot freakout!
Make sure and click "all."
Holy shit.
John Galt@JohnGaltTweetsReply
Retweet
George Zimmerman was screwed as soon as they put media whore and would-be politician Angela Corey in charge of "finding the truth." #tcot
So this is what you get when you are a professional woman doing your job in law enforcement as a preosecutor and working for the people. You get called a whore by right wing agitators.
No war on women here. Nothing to see, now. Move along.
| 168 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:38:38pm |
re: #159 Gus
Yup, just came up, it appears the first time, the computer crapped up.
They are fricking losing it. The mask has come completely off.
| 170 |
Major Tom Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:38:46pm |
Martin's family has been so graceful throughout this whole process. I can't say I would have been the same in their shoes. I'm continue to add respect for them.
| 172 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:39:47pm |
re: #161 Johnny Derp
The operator did not tell him not to follow Trayvon.
She told him he didn't have to do that. He did it anyway.
| 173 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:40:19pm |
re: #167 celticdragon
Holy shit.
So this is what you get when you are a professional woman doing your job in law enforcement as a preosecutor and working for the people. You get called a whore by right wing agitators.
No war on women here. Nothing to see, now. Move along.
Yep. The crazy has begun. Although with the wingers it's almost like a tree of crazy with different branches.
| 174 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:40:45pm |
re: #161 Johnny Derp
The operator did not tell him not to follow Trayvon.
Any reasonable person should be able to infer that the police dispatcher did not want him following Trayvon.
| 175 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:41:06pm |
Oh, surprise, surprise. The extreme Right Winger on my FB post just posted a picture showing a grade-school GZ and a picture I'm not sure actually is TM saying that GZ protected his neighborhood from a thug.
I wish that all thugs were just out to get a soda and some skittles. Be a mighty nice world.
Contemplating "ignore" status, but that would be like ignoring the crazy guy at the end of the street. Not always a good idea.
Also, just show them as their real ages. I've got no problem with seeing a 17 year old black male as being completely innocent, tall or not.
| 176 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:41:13pm |
re: #168 ProGunLiberal
They are fricking losing it. The mask has come completely off.
The mask came off back in 2008. It's just more obvious now, because they can't process the fact that a white man is getting charged with a crime for shooting a black kid.
Read the comments in #113. There are blatant white supremacist sympathies being tossed around. It's insane.
| 177 |
Major Tom Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:41:37pm |
re: #174 celticdragon
Any reasonable person should be able to infer that the police dispatcher did not want him following Trayvon.
people calling the cops didn't even want to go outside their homes, or look through the windows, and zimmerman was stalking a person willingly.
| 178 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:41:40pm |
re: #172 makeitstop
She told him he didn't have to do that. He did it anyway.
She said that 911 didn't need him to do that. So that's neither here, nor there. It's not an order, not much of a suggestion either, and I'm not sure what legal force even a direct order would have (I suspect none).
| 179 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:42:40pm |
re: #174 celticdragon
Any reasonable person should be able to infer that the police dispatcher did not want him following Trayvon.
Sure. But is her opinion relevant to the case?
| 180 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:42:58pm |
re: #176 Lidane
They are such a bunch of barbarians at this point. And the Vikings were more civilized than these assholes.
| 181 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:43:29pm |
It just occurred to me that Zimmerman's own defense backs up the murder 2 charge. Zimmerman claims that he didn't shoot Martin in the heat of passion--he shot him, he says, with the intention of protecting himself from serious violence, which implies a rational calculation. The stand-your-ground law requires that the shooter have a "reasonable belief" that he's in mortal danger, where "reasonable" actually means something. Perhaps the evidence is actually that he didn't have any such reasonable belief.
That would put him in a bind -- he'd either have to change his story, say he was acting in the heat of passion and lose his SYG coverage, and it'd be a slam dunk of a manslaughter charge, or else stick to his story and go down for murder.
Maybe they're trying to force this choice before trial, which would likely boil down to him pleading to manslaughter.
| 182 |
justaminute Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:46:23pm |
On the initial police reports, the officer listed Murder II and Manslaughter in the possible charges.
The initial police work was so shoddy, but the autopsy results are unknown to all of us. One good thing I read is that they did keep George's clothes and the medical examiner has Taryn's clothes. The body and the clothes will many times speak for the victim. Unfortunately it was raining.
This case is so high profile, I bet the prosecutor must have a good case. Zimmerman has made himself a reputation before this even happened, one that he may regret now. At his arraignment, we should hope the Judge or the prosecutor would ask for a gag order. Frankly the Martin family and the Internet has this case out there and really shown a spotlight on the Sanford police department. That need our vigilance now, from what I have read, the PD needs it.
| 183 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:46:37pm |
re: #177 Major Tom
people calling the cops didn't even want to go outside their homes, or look through the windows, and zimmerman was stalking a person willingly.
I have used the verb "stalking" as well, because that is what his actions amount to. He stalked an innocent person, and that person is now dead.
| 184 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:46:58pm |
re: #179 Johnny Derp
Sure. But is her opinion relevant to the case?
Well I'm guessing it was not the first time they spoke. GZ had called 911 to report suspicious black people in the neighborhood, garage doors left open, and other non-crimes quite a few times before. They all knew crazy George. Question is why didn't they tell him to back off and quit bothering with nuisance 911 calls long before then.
| 185 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:47:18pm |
re: #181 neilk
It just occurred to me that Zimmerman's own defense backs up the murder 2 charge. Zimmerman claims that he didn't shoot Martin in the heat of passion--he shot him, he says, with the intention of protecting himself from serious violence, which implies a rational calculation. The stand-your-ground law requires that the shooter have a "reasonable belief" that he's in mortal danger, where "reasonable" actually means something. Perhaps the evidence is actually that he didn't have any such reasonable belief.
That would put him in a bind -- he'd either have to change his story, say he was acting in the heat of passion and lose his SYG coverage, and it'd be a slam dunk of a manslaughter charge, or else stick to his story and go down for murder.
Maybe they're trying to force this choice before trial, which would likely boil down to him pleading to manslaughter.
Theoretically plausible, but that would hinge largely on what evidence it is that they're relying upon to argue that he was in no real danger. And I think that's ultimately going to come down to the results of the autopsy.
| 186 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:47:38pm |
re: #178 Johnny Derp
She said that 911 didn't need him to do that. So that's neither here, nor there. It's not an order, not much of a suggestion either, and I'm not sure what legal force even a direct order would have (I suspect none).
Nonetheless, a good prosecutor could (and should) use such information in order to bolster her case.
This guy was, in theory, working with law enforcement. But he saw fit to ignore part of the law enforcement apparatus in order to stalk and ultimately kill a kid.
Maybe a minor point, but it could reinforce a narrative.
| 187 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:47:46pm |
Check out Dan Riehl's Twitter timeline. Retch.
[Link: twitter.com...]
| 188 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:48:18pm |
re: #184 Mich-again
Not only that, wasn't there a meeting of neighborhood watchers with the police after which Zimmerman began "reporting" black males? I read that some time ago.
| 189 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:48:53pm |
| 190 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:49:32pm |
re: #179 Johnny Derp
Sure. But is her opinion relevant to the case?
Yes. He was stalking an innocent person engaged in lawful business against the express and explicit direction from the dispatcher and also in direct contravention of every neighborhood watch policy. It also really trashes his SYG defense.
| 191 |
Ben G. Hazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:49:35pm |
re: #167 celticdragon
Holy shit.
So this is what you get when you are a professional woman doing your job in law enforcement as a preosecutor and working for the people. You get called a whore by right wing agitators.
No war on women here. Nothing to see, now. Move along.
The right did and said similar things about Janet Reno, IIRC, except with her, it's was that Reno was supposedly a lesbian
| 192 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:50:20pm |
re: #187 Charles Johnson
Ahh, no thank you. I would like to keep my cool.
| 193 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:50:26pm |
I notice that "Gus_812" unfollowed all the other stalkers. Now following zero people. This is known as "running scared."
| 194 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:51:24pm |
re: #190 celticdragon
Yes. He was stalking an innocent person engaged in lawful business against the express and explicit direction from the dispatcher and also in direct contravention of every neighborhood watch policy. It also really trashes his SYG defense.
It wasn't "express and explicit direction" though.
| 195 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:51:57pm |
re: #167 celticdragon
Holy shit.
So this is what you get when you are a professional woman doing your job in law enforcement as a preosecutor and working for the people. You get called a whore by right wing agitators.
No war on women here. Nothing to see, now. Move along.
Any woman who gets under wingnut skins will be called a whore and worse. Wingnuts never seem to realise that all they are doing is displaying their own pyschological and moral ugliness for all to see.
| 196 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:52:20pm |
re: #193 Charles Johnson
I notice that "Gus_812" unfollowed all the other stalkers. Now following zero people. This is known as "running scared."
Weird. Just like them. Weird.
| 197 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:52:28pm |
re: #190 celticdragon
Yes. He was stalking an innocent person engaged in lawful business against the express and explicit direction from the dispatcher and also in direct contravention of every neighborhood watch policy. It also really trashes his SYG defense.
Again, there was no direction from the dispatcher. There was a meek expression of opinion. The rest of the above is irrelevant to the 911 call.
At most this may be relevant as some sort of a "character detail" to support the narrative, but it's a secondary detail at best.
| 198 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:52:30pm |
re: #194 Shvaughn
It wasn't "express and explicit direction" though.
I would have considered it an order. YMMV.
| 199 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:52:41pm |
re: #194 Shvaughn
It wasn't "express and explicit direction" though.
Exactly, it was worded as a passive observation.
| 200 |
Hawaii69 Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:53:24pm |
This is pretty much inevitable with his former lawyers calling a bizarre press conference to publicly state "we can't find him." Kinda forced the prosecutors hand. Maybe they thought he was going to bolt, and did it intentionally?
| 201 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:53:31pm |
| 202 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:53:49pm |
re: #197 Johnny Derp
Again, there was no direction from the dispatcher. There was a meek expression of opinion. The rest of the above is irrelevant to the 911 call.
She was being polite, but it was an order. Nothing meek.
| 203 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:53:51pm |
The ones left are going through and deleting tweets, too. I've already seen a bunch of stuff disappear, just looking at timelines today.
| 204 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:54:18pm |
re: #202 celticdragon
She was being polite, but it was an order. Nothing meek.
Nope, "we don't need you to do that" was not an order. Period.
| 205 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:54:25pm |
re: #198 celticdragon
I would have considered it an order. YMMV.
You: "Let me get that door for you, your hands are full."
Me: "I don't need you to do that."
You: "It's my pleasure."
Me: "Well, thank you very much."
Would you really consider me to be ordering you to not hold the door?
| 206 |
kirkspencer Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:55:14pm |
As far as I know, nobody outside the prosecution team has seen all the evidence. Saying it does or does not support the prosecutor's decision to charge Murder 2 is, I think, a mistake at this time.
| 207 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:55:23pm |
re: #202 celticdragon
She was being polite, but it was an order. Nothing meek.
It really wasn't, and she was a he.
| 208 |
Mattand Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:55:52pm |
re: #33 Decatur Deb
Too easy. NJ is the most bizarre per square foot.
Not by a long shot. You've got to work your way through TX, CA, FL, and AZ first. Even our neighbor PA, what with it's fondness for frothy mixtures, teaching creationism, and forced ultrasound laws, outdoes us in the crazy quotient.
| 209 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:56:53pm |
re: #203 Charles Johnson
The ones left are going through and deleting tweets, too. I've already seen a bunch of stuff disappear, just looking at timelines today.
Maybe the cockroaches will go back into hiding now.
| 210 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:57:04pm |
re: #199 goddamnedfrank
Exactly, it was worded as a passive observation.
No. She was being polite to a person who she thought was doing his civic duty, but it was meant to be an order. It is also staggeringly obtuse for anybody to argue (I know that you have said nothing of the osrt) that Zimmermann would be unaware that LE takes a dim view of civilians chasing or following people with a gun.
| 211 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:58:14pm |
re: #205 Shvaughn
This context is nothing like the context of someone calling 911 for emergency assistance.
| 212 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:58:18pm |
re: #210 celticdragon
No. She was being polite to a person who she thought was doing his civic duty, but it was meant to be an order.
If the dispatcher meant to give an order, it would have been phrased as an order. Law enforcement is not reluctant about ordering people to do things.
| 213 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:58:19pm |
re: #208 mattand
I have family in Florida. I can say, from my point of view, Florida wins the Batshit Award.
| 214 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:58:28pm |
re: #196 Gus
This is probably why they fell off like flies.
1. The people they're tweeting about have all them blocked.
2. These people also report them as spam.
3. This group is close-knit and follows each other.
4. Probably numerous accounts from only several IPs.
| 215 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:58:33pm |
re: #205 Shvaughn
You: "Let me get that door for you, your hands are full."
Me: "I don't need you to do that."
You: "It's my pleasure."
Me: "Well, thank you very much."Would you really consider me to be ordering you to not hold the door?
Not quite the same frame of mind if I am following a person and I am packing heat. I suspect that if she had known Zimmermann was armed, she would have been a damned bit sharper in her tone of voice.
| 216 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:59:27pm |
re: #211 neilk
This context is nothing like the context of someone calling 911 for emergency assistance.
In an emergency situation, the police are not concerned with being polite to someone whose life may be in danger. If it was meant as an order, it would have been phrased as an order.
| 217 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:59:36pm |
re: #210 celticdragon
No. She was being polite to a person who she thought was doing his civic duty, but it was meant to be an order. It is also staggeringly obtuse for anybody to argue (I know that you have said nothing of the osrt) that Zimmermann would be unaware that LE takes a dim view of civilians chasing or following people with a gun.
I don't know why you're stuck with this untenable position that an opinion that is not worded even closely to an order is an order, but apparently there's no convincing you otherwise. So let's wait for the trial.
| 218 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 3:59:48pm |
re: #207 goddamnedfrank
and she was a he.
I stand corrected. I followed the lead of another comment upthread.
| 220 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:00:37pm |
OT - Heh, this guy probably just earned himself a bunch of hate tweets:
REPUBLICANS ARE CLOSET SOCIALISTS bit.ly/I6niMh #socialist #gop #tcot #p2 #p21
— Moderate Left (@ModLeft) April 11, 2012
| 221 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:01:11pm |
How do we as whites get organised, get a huge gathering up, ad march and make our demands that blacks stop killing us at app 18:1 and stop committing app 54 rapes a day against whites, many of them savage beyond anything in a civilised society? Are these statistics not enough to get whites to sacrifice a day or two and gather in solidarity for the sake of our chidren and our elderly who are the victims of crimes by blacks in numbers far greater than white on black crime? White on black crime is negigible, almost non-existant. We need to protest the "mahogany mobs" whose first intention is to beat random innocent whites senseless, even unto death. Or play "knockout king" with whites as the targets.
It's bad enough that public school standards and discipline have been destroyed, that standards for law enforcement, firefighters, university, most jobs, and on and on have been lowered. It's bad enough that productive whites in the suburbs pay for the parasites in the inner cities even as they destroy those cities. It's bad enough that they are then given section 8 vouchers so they can bring the "diversity" of their crime, vandalism, parasitism, and general worthlessness to the neighborhoods of those working whites already supporting the, through taxes, until their presence reaches a tipping point and the whites flee even further into the hinterland.
If that's not enough for you, surely the disproportionate murder and rape statistics of whites-it might be your son or daughter next-should make whites take action in gathering as a group to say we will no longer be the willing victims or the penned cattle for others to slaughter and take our produce.
What will it take, if the Knoxvill college couple or the Tulsa elderly couple who were savagely beaten, tortured, raped, and murdered wasn't enough, on top of all the other black on white crime? Have we really degerated as a race to this?
| 222 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:01:13pm |
re: #215 celticdragon
Not quite the same frame of mind if I am following a person and I am packing heat. I suspect that if she had known Zimmermann was armed, she would have been a damned bit sharper in her tone of voice.
That assumes that the police consider someone calling about a suspicious person [sic] to be most concerned about the caller killing that person. But that isn't normal. Usually if you are calling the police about a suspected perpetrator, they aren't worried about protecting the perp from you.
| 223 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:01:33pm |
re: #217 Johnny Derp
I don't know why you're stuck with this untenable position that an opinion that is not worded even closely to an order is an order, but apparently there's no convincing you otherwise. So let's wait for the trial.
I feel nothing untenable about it at all. I actually have the same opnion of where you are standing, honestly. I listened to the tape and I thought it was quite clear. He was not supposed to follow Trayvon.
| 224 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:02:17pm |
If you want an example of someone ignoring a clear and articulately worded order listen to the Joe Horn 911 call. The operator tells him repeatedly not to go outside and Horn argues with him, saying the "laws have changed in this country." He shot two men in the back and a Texas grand jury refused to indict.
| 225 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:02:33pm |
re: #220 CuriousLurker
I admit that guy has some balls doing that. Even I wouldn't have the audacity to try that.
I hope he has some flame-retardant clothes and fire extinguisher.
| 226 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:02:56pm |
Well I don't want to shock anyone, but there are some really racist comments to the story on Fox News. WHodathunkit! stuff like this..
What do u bet they load the jury with a bunch of_thugs? They are sacrificing an innocent man, just to appease a bunch of trouble causing blaques!
Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 227 |
neilk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:03:46pm |
George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Floridian who killed black teenager Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, had a MySpace account whose username was “datniggytb,” The Daily Caller has learned.
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
| 228 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:04:14pm |
re: #227 neilk
Wow.
| 229 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:04:49pm |
'People who are conservatives, & have leftists working for them, should begin the process of finding a way to fire them.. There's more than one non-violent way to turn up the heat. If they want division, let's start giving it to them & making it cost them something. If you see an Obama bumper sticker on their car, refuse to sell them anything or to serve them. Just don't tell them why, because you don't have to. "
- comment on Fox News's story that Zimmerman was being arrested.
[Link: plus.google.com...]
| 230 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:05:15pm |
The fact that Corey bypassed the Grand Jury route says something about her.. that she didn't feel intimidated to hide behind the GJ's decision. Then again, she may have had a lack of confidence in the Florida GJ.
| 231 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:05:19pm |
re: #227 neilk
George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Floridian who killed black teenager Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, had a MySpace account whose username was “datniggytb,” The Daily Caller has learned.
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
Now he's suddenly Hispanic again! Surprised they didn't call him a Democrat.
| 232 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:05:23pm |
re: #227 neilk
While offensive, I can't figure out what TB at the end of that means.
| 233 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:05:30pm |
re: #214 Johnny Derp
This is probably why they fell off like flies.
4. Probably numerous accounts from only several IPs.
Definitely. These people talk to each otherthemselves a LOT, if you catch my drift, on the stalker blog, I expect that behaviour would be duplicated on whatever media they get access too.
| 234 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:05:40pm |
re: #222 Shvaughn
That assumes that the police consider someone calling about a suspicious person [sic] to be most concerned about the caller killing that person. But that isn't normal. Usually if you are calling the police about a suspected perpetrator, they aren't worried about protecting the perp from you.
People in LE get real, real agitated about armed civilians trying to play cop. I have relatives and a father retired from LE and they do not like armed civvies following "suspects" around with no badge, arrest powers or training. If the dispatcher knew that Zimmerman was packing, the comments would have been, ahem, entertaining to say the least.
| 235 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:06:20pm |
re: #211 neilk
This context is nothing like the context of someone calling 911 for emergency assistance.
Again, Zimmerman called the police non-emergency number, not 911. The operator probably was the same for both numbers and these may seem like nit picky details but repeating false information gives it inertia.
| 236 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:07:02pm |
re: #224 goddamnedfrank
If you want an example of someone ignoring a clear and articulately worded order listen to the Joe Horn 911 call. The operator tells him repeatedly not to go outside and Horn argues with him, saying the "laws have changed in this country." He shot two men in the back and a Texas grand jury refused to indict.
[Embedded content]
True. I still firmly believe that the 911 tape will be used to trash any SYG defense, since SYG doesn't mean chase and shoot.
| 237 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:07:08pm |
re: #214 Johnny Derp
Checked a couple more, and they've also unfollowed all the other stalker accounts. Obviously they think this is a red flag to Twitter and they're scurrying around trying to avoid getting identified as belonging to this coordinated smear campaign.
I think it's pretty awesome that Twitter stepped in like this. I'd love to know who to thank, but it's a surprise to me too.
| 238 |
erik_t Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:08:03pm |
re: #235 goddamnedfrank
Again, Zimmerman called the police non-emergency number, not 911. The operator probably was the same for both numbers and these may seem like nit picky details but repeating false information gives it inertia.
In my experience, non-emergency numbers take me to an actual police officer on the other end of the line (rather than an emergency dispatcher). Such officer might well have the legal power to tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, rather than to say it was not necessary.
Or maybe not. I don't know shit about law.
| 239 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:08:05pm |
She's a Republican known for her tough stance against crime and the number of cases she's taken to trial.
No, she's a hack. Republicans are not necessarily conservative and Republicans have a strong tendency to cave into the pressures of political correctness. I heard her statement and what stood out to me was that she mentioned that their office took the case not simply to "investigate" whether or not a crime took place (which is the job of a special prosecutor), but to "Seek Justice for Trayvon". She basically stated that her job was not to seek the truth, but to find a way to seek "Justice for Trayvon". First name. Her words.
Her job was to investigate the facts and then make a determination as to whether or not Mr. Zimmerman was guilty of some crime or whether or not this was a justifiable homicide. Her own words indicated that she had no interest in the truth, but in getting the desired result.
There is no way on earth that they can legitimately convict Zimmerman of second degree murder. If he had murdered Miller then there wouldn't have been serious wounds to the back of his head and there would not have been a witness who had indicated that Miller was on top of Zimmerman and pounding his head on the concrete before the shot rang out. This is a clear case of justifiable homicide. The police and the county prosecutors, despite media and political pressure, made the decision NOT to prosecute him even for negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter, yet this politically appointed hack looked at the same evidence and listened to the cries for "JUSTICE" from the president on down and decided the safest course of action was to charge Zimmerman with Murder. Frankly if she had charged Zimmerman with involuntary manslaughter, then the riots would have started today. The riots will now be postponed until the Judge throws the case out on a demurr or at the preliminary hearing, or if that doesn't happen, then after Zimmerman is acquitted.
All this hack did was to pass the buck. She knows he's innocent, but she knows that her life would have been in danger had she failed to bring this charge.
This is what American Justice has become under Obama.
| 240 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:08:40pm |
re: #229 jaunte
'People who are conservatives, & have leftists working for them, should begin the process of finding a way to fire them.. There's more than one non-violent way to turn up the heat. If they want division, let's start giving it to them & making it cost them something. If you see an Obama bumper sticker on their car, refuse to sell them anything or to serve them. Just don't tell them why, because you don't have to. "
- comment on Fox News's story that Zimmerman was being arrested.
[Link: plus.google.com...]
It must be depressing as hell to live in a world where you loathe your fellow Americans that much.
| 241 |
erik_t Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:09:23pm |
re: #239 Lidane
They seem compelled to reduce the size of the modern Republican Party to perhaps two or three induhviduals.
I endorse this behavior.
| 242 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:09:38pm |
re: #217 Johnny Derp
I don't know why you're stuck with this untenable position that an opinion that is not worded even closely to an order is an order, but apparently there's no convincing you otherwise. So let's wait for the trial.
I think there's a difference in perception here. To some people including myself it sounds like an order albeit with some 'understatement'. If it were said to me by a policeman or emergency service operator I'd take it as an order.
| 243 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:09:42pm |
re: #232 ProGunLiberal
While offensive, I can't figure out what TB at the end of that means.
The suggestion supposedly refuted in that article is that it meant "Trayvon Benjamin". However, it seems mighty unlikely this guy would go on myspace *after* the killing and register this account and put his photo there. And for some reason these journos did not look up the date of the creation of the account.
| 244 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:09:54pm |
I wonder how "Tugboat" can be so big that he gets that nickname, and yet not tough enough to handle a skinny black kid.
| 245 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:10:14pm |
re: #237 Charles Johnson
Checked a couple more, and they've also unfollowed all the other stalker accounts. Obviously they think this is a red flag to Twitter and they're scurrying around trying to avoid getting identified as belonging to this coordinated smear campaign.
I think it's pretty awesome that Twitter stepped in like this. I'd love to know who to thank, but it's a surprise to me too.
Scattered like cockroaches in the shining light.
| 247 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:10:35pm |
re: #231 Shvaughn
Now he's suddenly Hispanic again! Surprised they didn't call him a Democrat.
The trends in coverage have been interesting to watch. I'm seeing more references describing his race as "white father, hispanic mother" instead of white or white hispanic. I also noticed that the press stopped using Zimmermans old mug shot as much and switched to the smiling photo until today when most have gone back to the mugshot.
| 248 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:10:51pm |
re: #238 erik_t
In my experience, non-emergency numbers take me to an actual police officer on the other end of the line (rather than an emergency dispatcher). Such officer might well have the legal power to tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, rather than to say it was not necessary.
Or maybe not. I don't know shit about law.
Which isn't my argument. I conceded that it's likely the same operator, in my experience one call center handles both non-emergency and 911, the two numbers are there to help prioritize during high volume. I'm simply pointing out that when we don't correct the repetition of erroneous details they develop a patina of actual fact.
| 249 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:10:58pm |
re: #239 Lidane
A DA seeking justice for a homicide victim, what a terrible, terrible person. The Freepers are such cretins stuck in the 19th century. They cry about Zimmerman being charged being a lynching but I have to say reading what I read from them that they would be supporters of real lynchings. Zimmerman isn't being lynched. He's being charged with a crime. And if the Freepers don't like that, they can go fuck themselves.
| 250 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:11:14pm |
From this afternoon's Fox Insider email:
Image: Screen_shot_2012-04-11_at_6.10.19_PM.png
| 251 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:12:12pm |
re: #223 celticdragon
I feel nothing untenable about it at all. I actually have the same opnion of where you are standing, honestly. I listened to the tape and I thought it was quite clear. He was not supposed to follow Trayvon.
And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".
| 252 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:12:27pm |
re: #227 neilk
And the Latin slogan on the page means "If you want peace, prepare for war."
| 253 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:12:34pm |
re: #250 jaunte
From this afternoon's Fox Insider email:
Image: Screen_shot_2012-04-11_at_6.10.19_PM.png
How will White Americans address White on White crime? Seriously, I am not someone to use hyperbole but Fox looks more like a white supremacist news station every day that passes. Buncha scumbags.
| 254 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:12:39pm |
re: #247 Killgore Trout
The trends in coverage have been interesting to watch. I'm seeing more references describing his race as "white father, hispanic mother" instead of white or white hispanic. I also noticed that the press stopped using Zimmermans old mug shot as much and switched to the smiling photo until today when most have gone back to the mugshot.
Well, we should be getting a new mugshot soon.
| 255 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:12:48pm |
re: #239 Lidane
I was just thinking about how tonight is going to be the "night of the no true Scotsman" with the reactions at RW blogs to the George Zimmerman charges.
| 256 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:12:55pm |
re: #242 Aye Pod
I think there's a difference in perception here. To some people including myself it sounds like an order albeit with some 'understatement'. If it were said to me by a policeman or emergency service operator I'd take it as an order.
Yes. That may simply be my experience from the military here, since if an NCO or officer said something couched that way I knew it was still an order.
| 257 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:13:08pm |
re: #239 Lidane
Translation: "She didn't come to the conclusion that we think she should have, so it's gotta be political!"
| 258 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:13:30pm |
re: #254 Shvaughn
Well, we should be getting a new mugshot soon.
Heh, at least it will be more up to date than the old one.
| 259 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:13:38pm |
re: #249 HappyWarrior
It's quite simple. Freepers want to be able to lynch people without consequence. It seems clear that what that one site is, anyway.
| 260 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:13:38pm |
re: #247 Killgore Trout
The trends in coverage have been interesting to watch. I'm seeing more references describing his race as "white father, hispanic mother" instead of white or white hispanic. I also noticed that the press stopped using Zimmermans old mug shot as much and switched to the smiling photo until today when most have gone back to the mugshot.
Fox News had the "younger Trayvon/GZ mugshot" yesterday. It may be more chaotic than it seems.
| 261 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:14:14pm |
re: #253 HappyWarrior
How will White Americans address White on White crime?
White on white crime doesn't exist! It's just black people who commit crimes.
//
| 262 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:14:48pm |
re: #251 Buck
And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".
So you are ignoring the testimony of the young woman who was speaking with Trayvon on the phone when Zimmerman confronted him?
| 264 |
Ben G. Hazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:15:27pm |
re: #238 erik_t
In my experience, non-emergency numbers take me to an actual police officer on the other end of the line (rather than an emergency dispatcher). Such officer might well have the legal power to tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, rather than to say it was not necessary.
Or maybe not. I don't know shit about law.
Any just about any locality or county that's bigger than Mayberry that I'm aware of, calling the cops gets you a public safety dispatcher, not a field officer. Most dispatchers in departments larger than a handful of employees may not even be considered sworn peace officers, just basically call takers.
Working in the alarm business as a central station dispatcher gives me a bit of insight on this particular issue.
| 265 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:15:50pm |
re: #257 Targetpractice
Translation: "She didn't come to the conclusion that we think she should have, so it's gotta be political!"
Don't forget that she is also a "media whore"...
/spit/
| 267 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:16:12pm |
re: #262 celticdragon
So you are ignoring the testimony of the young woman who was speaking with Trayvon on the phone when Zimmerman confronted him?
I am listening to the actual recorded conversation between the 911 operator and Zimmerman.
What conversation are you listening to?
| 268 |
Sionainn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:16:19pm |
re: #251 Buck
And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".
Didn't Zimmerman also at first tell the dispatcher that he'd meet the cops at a certain place, but then changed his mind and asked if the cop could call him when the cop got there? Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?
| 269 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:16:24pm |
re: #260 Johnny Derp
Fox News had the "younger Trayvon/GZ mugshot" yesterday. It may be more chaotic than it seems.
It might be but there are conscious editorial decisions being made. Some of it's ideological but I think it's mostly sensationalism and whatever drives traffic to their stories.
| 270 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:16:29pm |
re: #263 Gus
Stay safe. Where are you?
Also, apparently Kinkade was $9 million in hole when he died.
| 272 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:17:44pm |
re: #266 Shvaughn
Be safe.
re: #270 ProGunLiberal
Stay safe. Where are you?
Also, apparently Kinkade was $9 million in hole when he died.
Thanks. Denver. I just looked around and didn't see anything. No reports on TV. Might be a precaution or on the outskirts. Could be funnels. Don't hear any "trains".
| 273 |
Mattand Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:17:49pm |
re: #239 Lidane
Freepers would be entertaining if they weren't so batshit crazy. Honestly, reading those posts is the redneck equivalent of watching stormfronts* come together and form a tornado. In this case, the tornado is unfortunately a stand-in for a mob of racist knuckle draggers.
Reading stuff like that makes me wonder why we haven't seen more of an uptick in hate crimes since Obama got elected.
*Choice of wording intentional
| 274 |
erik_t Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:17:52pm |
re: #264 talon_262
Any just about any locality or county that's bigger than Mayberry that I'm aware of, calling the cops gets you a public safety dispatcher, not a field officer. Most dispatchers in departments larger than a handful of employees may not even be considered sworn peace officers, just basically call takers.
Working in the alarm business as a central station dispatcher gives me a bit of insight on this particular issue.
This was in a city in excess of a million residents.
| 275 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:18:40pm |
re: #268 Sionainn
Didn't Zimmerman also at first tell the dispatcher that he'd meet the cops at a certain place, but then changed his mind and asked if the cop could call him when the cop got there? Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?
According to his (ex) lawyers the dispatcher asked him for the nearest house address. He checked the address and was headed back to his truck.
| 276 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:18:54pm |
re: #269 Killgore Trout
It might be but there are conscious editorial decisions being made. Some of it's ideological but I think it's mostly sensationalism and whatever drives traffic to their stories.
I think it probably happened like this. At first there were no other photos, so the first outlets went with that the police (mugshot) and the family supplied. It need not be malicious.
Then it was a matter of inertia, with various outlets changing the photos as they were coming out, sometimes giving later GZ/earlier TM, sometimes vice versa, all permutations.
| 277 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:18:58pm |
re: #267 Buck
I am listening to the actual recorded conversation between the 911 operator and Zimmerman.
What conversation are you listening to?
Go find out for yourself, since you are automatically and magically assuming that he "likely" did something based on the 911 tape.
| 278 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:19:18pm |
re: #268 Sionainn
Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?
There are other possible reasons. One could be that, as he stated, he didn't know where the "kid" was. So he might have been nervous waiting in the open.
| 279 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:19:22pm |
In other news, water is wet, bears are Catholic, and Popes..well, you know:
Axl Rose Not Attending Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Ceremony, Asks for His Induction to be Retracted
What a whiny little bitch. Other bands and artists that have been inducted have had fights and squabbles between them and they got their personal shit together long enough to accept the induction then go back to hating each other.
| 280 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:19:29pm |
re: #265 celticdragon
Don't forget that she is also a "media whore"...
/spit/
For weeks now, I've been told the same thing by GZ's defenders: "Wait and see." Even as recently as yesterday, we were assured there was evidence that hadn't come out yet that would exonerate him, but we had to wait until the case was closed before we'd see it.
Now that he's being charged, what do we hear? "All the evidence is there to prove justifiable homicide! We can prove it!"
| 281 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:19:31pm |
re: #274 erik_t
This was in a city in excess of a million residents.
This city?
Sanford is a city in the central region of the U.S. state of Florida. It is the county seat of Seminole County. As of the 2010 U.S. Census, the city had a population of 53,570.
From Wikipedia.
| 282 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:20:16pm |
re: #272 Gus
Huh, I should be living in the area in the next year or so.
I was wondering if people had comments about the Kinkade thing.
| 283 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:20:26pm |
re: #277 celticdragon
Go find out for yourself, since you are automatically and magically assuming that he "likely" did something based on the 911 tape.
Find for myself what you are listening to? I don't think I can. ONly you know what you are listening to.
| 284 |
Sionainn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:20:26pm |
re: #272 Gus
re: #270 ProGunLiberal
Thanks. Denver. I just looked around and didn't see anything. No reports on TV. Might be a precaution or on the outskirts. Could be funnels. Don't hear any "trains".
AT 505 PM MDT...THE PUBLIC REPORTED A TORNADO NEAR 38TH AND TOWER
ROAD...ABOUT 6 MILES NORTH OF AURORA...OR 10 MILES NORTHEAST OF
DENVER. THIS STORM WAS MOVING NORTH AT 25 MPH.* LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO BUCKLEY
AFB...BARR LAKE...WESTERN DENVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT...
NORTHEASTERN DENVER...NORTHEASTERN COMMERCE CITY AND NORTHWESTERN
AURORA.
| 285 |
erik_t Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:20:29pm |
re: #281 Shvaughn
Yeah. Uh.... he said the bigger it is, the more likely it's a separate dispatcher. 1,000,000 > 53,570.
Unless I radically missed the point you thought you were trying to make.
| 286 |
danarchy Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:20:49pm |
re: #155 Lidane
He didn't have any powder burns? Wow. That would mean he got shot from a distance, wouldn't it?
Kinda puts the lie to the whole epic fight to the death scenario.
To my knowledge no autopsy report has been released. The only person who has made any comment on the condition of the body is the Funeral Director who probably isn't qualified to make that determination. Especially if Trayvon was wearing a couple layers of clothing. I am no CSI, so I will let the experts give us the info as the trial unfolds.
| 287 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:21:24pm |
re: #283 Buck
Find for myself what you are listening to? I don't think I can. ONly you know what you are listening to.
It would be better for everyone if you stated your main point clearly, without passive aggressiveness.
| 288 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:21:25pm |
re: #251 Buck
And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".
Why put "the kid is" in quotation marks when it doesn't appear anywhere in the call transcript? He never specifically says he lost contact, he say's "he ran" after answering that his name is George.
Jesus Christ you're an embarrassment Buck.
| 289 |
Sionainn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:21:38pm |
re: #278 Buck
There are other possible reasons. One could be that, as he stated, he didn't know where the "kid" was. So he might have been nervous waiting in the open.
All the more reason to go to the prearranged meeting place to meet the cops.
| 290 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:21:42pm |
re: #278 Buck
There are other possible reasons. One could be that, as he stated, he didn't know where the "kid" was. So he might have been nervous waiting in the open.
He also might have thought the kid had medieval weapons instead of hands and stood over 8 feet tall, since African American men have super criminal powers...as long as we are speculating.
/
| 292 |
justaminute Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:22:06pm |
re: #268 Sionainn
Didn't Zimmerman also at first tell the dispatcher that he'd meet the cops at a certain place, but then changed his mind and asked if the cop could call him when the cop got there? Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?
Daily Kos did a pretty good time line. Zimmerman seems to want them to call him when they got to the scene as he had no intention of remaining there. Remember the phase Zimmerman used "They always get away!" That comment will really be featured prominently at trial, I'm thinking.
| 293 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:22:14pm |
re: #282 ProGunLiberal
Huh, I should be living in the area in the next year or so.
I was wondering if people had comments about the Kinkade thing.
The painter? According to Twitter the warning is for north of Aurora and the DIA area. I'm sure we'll be fine. However, this usually indicates more severe storms building up as this front moves east. Next stop, Kansas.
| 294 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:22:22pm |
| 295 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:22:54pm |
re: #283 Buck
Find for myself what you are listening to? I don't think I can. ONly you know what you are listening to.
I assume you know how to google for trayvon martin girlfriend phone conversation.
| 296 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:23:00pm |
re: #284 Sionainn
Just saw this too:
DENVER (CBS4)- A tornado warning was issued for northwestern Arapahoe County in northeast Colorado, western Adams County in northeast Colorado and eastern Denver County in northeast Colorado until 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. At 5:05 p.m. the public reported a tornado near 38th and Tower Road about six miles north of Aurora or ten miles east of Denver. ...
| 297 |
kirkspencer Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:23:04pm |
I'd like to give a purely speculative example of evidence we don't know that would easily support the depravity charge.
What if Martin were shot in the back?
I've speculated on that point before. He was shot with a 9mm at very close to point blank range. Even hollowpoints at that range should go through, leaving an exit wound. One of the reasons I've been anticipating seeing the autopsy report was to see if there was a second (exit) wound and what the data regarding the two wounds showed.
Another possibility is if it is shown that Zimmerman was on top and in control. How? If the bullet was found tunneled into the grass on which Martin lay it would tend to support this position.
Note that both those are speculation. I'm presenting them as examples, only, of evidence we DO NOT HAVE that would give support for "depravity".
| 298 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:23:24pm |
re: #288 goddamnedfrank
Why put "the kid is" in quotation marks when it doesn't appear anywhere in the call transcript? He never specifically says he lost contact, he say's "he ran" after answering that his name is George.
Jesus Christ you're an embarrassment Buck.
From the transcript:
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.
| 299 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:24:00pm |
re: #286 danarchy
Actually, that post was a mistake on my part. I didn't notice that it was a hypothetical situation being discussed.
| 300 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:24:02pm |
re: #297 kirkspencer
What if Martin were shot in the back?
Then I assume his family would know, and thus we would know too.
| 301 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:25:12pm |
re: #298 Buck
Buck, GZ has been charged with 2nd degree murder. No, it's not a conviction yet. But would you agree that there is a good probability that GZ is guilty of a crime?
| 302 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:25:21pm |
re: #298 Buck
From the transcript:
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.
Cripes Buck. Why don't you just wait for the trial and stop playing Inspector Clouseau.
| 303 |
kirkspencer Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:25:34pm |
re: #275 Killgore Trout
According to his (ex) lawyers the dispatcher asked him for the nearest house address. He checked the address and was headed back to his truck.
Which doesn't meet the facts on the ground test. The shooting happened in the back yard of the address - between it and the house across from it. There is a sidewalk separating backyards.
| 304 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:25:45pm |
| 305 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:26:22pm |
re: #300 Johnny Derp
Then I assume his family would know, and thus we would know too.
How? The funeral director would say so? I trust him to say that he doesn't seen signs that he'd normally see, but I'm not about to put faith in his knowledge of ballistics as they pertain to murders unless I see some credentials.
| 306 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:28:02pm |
re: #305 Targetpractice
How? The funeral director would say so? I trust him to say that he doesn't seen signs that he'd normally see, but I'm not about to put faith in his knowledge of ballistics as they pertain to murders unless I see some credentials.
If the family identified the body, it would be probable that they would want to know the cause of death, even if unofficially. I know I would if it happened to my direct relative.
| 307 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:28:46pm |
Off to make some chili. Have a good evening, lizards. :)
Stay safe, Gus.
| 308 |
justaminute Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:29:08pm |
re: #300 Johnny Derp
Then I assume his family would know, and thus we would know too.
The funeral director for Trayvon stated that he had one bullet wound in the chest with no exit wound. I'm assuming since death happened so fast that it was one of those nasty bullets that explode and it was in the heart.
| 309 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:29:21pm |
re: #307 celticdragon
Off to make some chili. Have a good evening, lizards. :)
Stay safe, Gus.
Thanks. I'll be OK. It's further east.
| 310 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:29:25pm |
re: #306 Johnny Derp
If the family identified the body, it would be probable that they would want to know the cause of death, even if unofficially. I know I would if it happened to my direct relative.
And all they'd be told is "gunshot." The specifics of it would be confidential, particularly if there was an on-going investigation. If the coroner didn't offer the information, then there would be no way for them to obtain it until the investigation concluded.
| 311 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:29:51pm |
re: #302 Gus
Cripes Buck. Why don't you just wait for the trial and stop playing Inspector Clouseau.
Sure, never mind that goddamnedfrank was calling me an embarrassment because I used quote marks to quote something that he says was not in the transcript, even though it was.
| 312 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:30:50pm |
re: #246 Gus
That's so sad. Montrose was one of the guitarists I really looked up to when I was a kid.
| 313 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:31:46pm |
March Was an Epically Weird Weather Month
There were 223 preliminary tornado reports in March, a month that averages 80 tornadoes.
| 314 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:32:29pm |
The "reasonable conservative" readers over at NRO are weighing in:
2nd Degree murder? Sure, that's not a political statement.
Clearly, they're hoping for a manslaughter plea.
Here's something to remember: When standing over a dead man with a gun in your hand, don't say anything to anyone who isn't your lawyer. Ever. Don't even ask for a glass of water.
---I bet what some on the law enforcement/prosecution end of this are really hoping for is a nice quiet jailhouse suicide. Then everyone is safe.
---The probability of Zimmerman getting convicted of second-degree murder under Florida law is remote, which makes the State Attorney's decision to proceed all the more craven and politically-calculated. The popularly-elected State Attorney is merely trying to shield herself (and possibly the governor who appointed her to this particular case) from the political fallout. It is a disgusting corruption of the justice system.
---If they actually go to court on this charge, I could see the defense asking for and getting a summary judgement after the prosecution rests. There is just no evidence to support such a charge.
---A great day for race hustlers and their supporters.
---You think what Zimmerman did meets the Florida's definition of second degree murder, Mr. VerBruggen? Isn't this what you've wanted all along?
This has been a travesty of justice and now we hear the same old mouths of Sharpton and others say this isn't about "race". I wonder how they would've reacted if Zimmerman was charged with nothing.
| 315 |
wrenchwench Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:32:35pm |
re: #311 Buck
Sure, never mind that goddamnedfrank was calling me an embarrassment because I used quote marks to quote something that he says was not in the transcript, even though it was.
And did you provide a link to the material you're quoting? No.
| 316 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:33:00pm |
re: #311 Buck
Sure, never mind that goddamnedfrank was calling me an embarrassment because I used quote marks to quote something that he says was not in the transcript, even though it was.
My comment wasn't specific to GDF. Just saw you come in here with your clipboard and check list and hell broke loose.
| 317 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:33:56pm |
re: #315 wrenchwench
And did you provide a link to the material you're quoting? No.
I didn't need to. GDF did.
| 318 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:36:30pm |
re: #279 Lidane
In other news, water is wet, bears are Catholic, and Popes..well, you know:
Axl Rose Not Attending Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Ceremony, Asks for His Induction to be Retracted
What a whiny little bitch. Other bands and artists that have been inducted have had fights and squabbles between them and they got their personal shit together long enough to accept the induction then go back to hating each other.
Except for Van Halen. :)
| 319 |
wrenchwench Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:36:35pm |
| 320 |
kirkspencer Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:37:59pm |
egh. Again, the two things I gave were SPECULATIVE EXAMPLES of evidence we might not know that would support the depravity element.
We do not have the evidence. We do not know what unknowns make the prosecutor think 2d degree is supported, or if she's overstating (for whatever reason).
We won't know until the evidence is presented unless either attorney releases what is "discovered".
| 321 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:38:39pm |
| 322 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:39:37pm |
Dim Hoft's readers are in a derp-a-palooza of their own:
I call BULL $HIT…he was tried in the media and I guarantee holder and obummer have their hands in this….what a travesty
---Duh. Never saw that coming. Of course he will be charged with a crime for simply defending himself. That ‘special’ prosecutor wants to make a name for herself and the left wants to make defending yourself illegal.
If you are forced to defend yourself, don’t call the cops. Just do what you need to do and leave.
---Matthew 27:12-26
---Eastertime. Whole new significance for the Zimmerman family, I’m guessing.
---Exactly my thoughts…never thought I would ever think this of someone else!
GOD MUST HAVE A VERY SPECIAL PLAN FOR HIS LIFE!!!
---Submitting to a minority mob. Sounds familiar. CTA my fellow Americans, none of us is safe from tyranny.
---This whole thing has been vile.
George Zimmerman and all who follow need our prayers- for safety, peace, truth and sanity.
---What is he going to be charged with? Going above and beyond in service for the human race? Little thug Traybon got just what he deserved!
---y’all are taking this the wrong way…
we’re being allowed time to prepare–
got ammo?
;-}
| 323 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:40:48pm |
re: #318 makeitstop
Except for Van Halen. :)
Lots of money can make any group of musicians stop hating each other for a while. Hehe. The Police managed a tour, and I was sure that would never happen again.
| 324 |
justaminute Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:40:58pm |
Zimmerman's attorney is talking on TV. He hopes for bond and is worried about keeping him safe. Well, he could be kept safe in jail, so he doesn't meet up with someone like him.
| 325 |
makeitstop Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:42:33pm |
re: #323 Lidane
Lots of money can make any group of musicians stop hating each other for a while. Hehe. The Police managed a tour, and I was sure that would never happen again.
True. VH has re-assembled, but neither Dave nor EVH (or Alex) showed at their induction, leaving Sammy and Mike to do the honors.
| 326 |
Sionainn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:42:46pm |
re: #292 justaminute
Daily Kos did a pretty good time line. Zimmerman seems to want them to call him when they got to the scene as he had no intention of remaining there. Remember the phase Zimmerman used "They always get away!" That comment will really be featured prominently at trial, I'm thinking.
Yes. And apparently my memory was correct thanks to the transcript posted by GDF.
| 327 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:46:00pm |
Wouldn't be in the least surprised if they tapped his phone and listened to his conversations with family re: the case.
| 328 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:47:22pm |
I for one look forward to seeing the medical records from the day after he shot Treyvon submitted into evidence.
| 329 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:47:46pm |
re: #327 Johnny Derp
Wouldn't be in the least surprised if they tapped his phone and listened to his conversations with family re: the case.
I think thats illegal.
| 330 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:48:26pm |
re: #301 Johnny Derp
Buck, GZ has been charged with 2nd degree murder. No, it's not a conviction yet. But would you agree that there is a good probability that GZ is guilty of a crime?
Why? Simply because he has been arrested?
| 331 |
wrenchwench Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:48:30pm |
| 332 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:48:34pm |
re: #328 jamesfirecat
I for one look forward to seeing the medical records from the day after he shot Treyvon submitted into evidence.
Medical records and the autopsy report for Trayvon will shed a lot of light on things.
| 333 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:49:59pm |
| 334 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:50:42pm |
re: #330 Buck
Why? Simply because he has been arrested?
I explained why, and it's not because he has been arrested. Pay attention, Buck.
| 335 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:51:46pm |
re: #332 Lidane
Medical records and the autopsy report for Trayvon will shed a lot of light on things.
bbbut I thought the only real evidence was George's story??
| 336 |
McSpiff Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:52:21pm |
| 337 |
justaminute Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:52:41pm |
Now that Zimmerman has been charged, I hope more attention is placed on the Sandford Police Department. There has been quite a few stories about police departments throughout the country lately. I think laws written in response to 9/11 may have had an unintended consequence on our police departments throughout the nation. Maybe we need to re-evaluate them.
| 338 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:56:00pm |
re: #332 Lidane
Medical records and the autopsy report for Trayvon will shed a lot of light on things.
I believe those will ultimately be what the charges will hinge upon. If it can be shown that Trayvon was shot while Zimmerman was straddling him, or that any injuries that Zimmerman sustained were inconsistent with his story or in no way life-threatening, then it ceases being a "self-defense" case.
| 339 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:56:52pm |
re: #334 Johnny Derp
I explained why, and it's not because he has been arrested. Pay attention, Buck.
I simply do not understand your question. Do I think he is guilty now that he has been charged? Is that what you asked?
| 340 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:58:52pm |
re: #339 Buck
I don't see what about
Buck, GZ has been charged with 2nd degree murder. No, it's not a conviction yet. But would you agree that there is a good probability that GZ is guilty of a crime?
is unclear.
| 341 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:59:33pm |
OT, but I just learned something about Titanic. Found this on Something Awful, and confirmed the details.
| 342 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:00:49pm |
re: #340 Johnny Derp
I don't see what about
is unclear.
Anything can be unclear to a man who doesn't want to understand that the government would only press for second degree murder if it felt it had a lot of evidence and thus didn't need to settle for manslaughter.
| 343 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:02:05pm |
Hey all.
Well to me, this is the justice we've been looking for, an arrest. Now its up to the rule of law of our country. Prosecution and defense. As it goes.
It is random in our country what the media picks up on. There's a ton of non-reported same situations vs. the story with the media frenzy. Its not really fair. (ask any other parent of a murdered kid who hasn't been in the paper except for the first day) But, this one was picked up, and I count it as a representative of the ones not reported on.
What freaks me out is the hate, the absolute hate, by people in this country. If it was a different death, picked up and hyped by the media, these people's responses would be mirror opposite. And that shows their tribalism/racism.
Sad as hell.
| 344 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:03:37pm |
re: #338 Targetpractice
I believe those will ultimately be what the charges will hinge upon. If it can be shown that Trayvon was shot while Zimmerman was straddling him, or that any injuries that Zimmerman sustained were inconsistent with his story or in no way life-threatening, then it ceases being a "self-defense" case.
Exactly. The physical evidence -- the clothes that both of them were wearing, the autopsy report for Trayvon, the medical reports for Zimmerman, etc. will all make the most difference, I think.
| 345 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:04:10pm |
re: #344 Lidane
Exactly. The physical evidence -- the clothes that both of them were wearing, the autopsy report for Trayvon, the medical reports for Zimmerman, etc. will all make the most difference, I think.
Hopefully, nothing has been tainted/mishandled by incompetents.
| 346 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:04:26pm |
V-22 Osprey claims 2 more soldiers
The crash of the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey in the southern province of Tan Tan is being investigated as a "helicopter incident", Rodney D. Ford told Reuters by telephone.
| 347 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:07:03pm |
re: #345 Johnny Derp
Hopefully, nothing has been tainted/mishandled by incompetents.
Personally, I think that as long as the autopsy was properly done, that will tell the most. Evidence of a fight/struggle, the angle of the entrance and exit wounds, etc. would all be documented, I think. If the condition of Trayvon's body doesn't match up with whatever Zimmerman claims happened, then GZ is toast.
| 348 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:08:22pm |
re: #346 ProGunLiberal
As always with LGF, I upding the reporting, not the circumstance in these situations.
| 349 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:10:45pm |
re: #348 Hoodies for Justice. T
The V-22, at least to me belongs in the same category as the F-22 and the F-35. Costly boondoggles.
They were there for a joint exercise with the Moroccans, which we do yearly. We are there to help the readiness of a close allies under-equipped military, not to have our own crap decide to fuck up and kill people.
| 350 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:12:21pm |
re: #322 Lidane
Dim Hoft's readers are in a derp-a-palooza of their own:
Matthew 27:12-26
LOL. They're comparing Zimmerman to Jesus.
| 351 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:13:14pm |
re: #349 ProGunLiberal
The V-22 is something Dick Cheney tried to cancel. This thing is now responsible for the deaths of 32 US Servicemen.
| 352 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:14:00pm |
re: #350 Shvaughn
LOL. They're comparing Zimmerman to Jesus.
Yeah, that blew my mind. They were seriously making religious comparisons, suggesting that GZ was being made a martyr or something. Creepy.
| 353 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:17:59pm |
Right-wing blogs and commentators have literally embarked on a virtual cross-burning tonight.
| 354 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:18:11pm |
If he's Saint George, then who did he kill?
| 355 |
BeenHereAwhile Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:21:15pm |
re: #116 lawhawk
Note too he's got a new lawyer. Mark O'Mara, an Orlando lawyer and former prosecutor. His background is much more on point:
From the CV, he seems much more capable of dealing with the media crush, as well as dealing with the legal issues of the case.
Mark M. O'Mara
Martindale-Hubbell:
Peer Review Rating: AV® Preeminent™ 5.0 out of 5.
His peers believe O'Mara is a *very* good attorney. There's a lot of good attorneys who would like to have an AV Martindale-Hubbell rating.
| 356 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:21:43pm |
re: #351 ProGunLiberal
The V-22 is something Dick Cheney tried to cancel. This thing is now responsible for the deaths of 32 US Servicemen.
Butbutbut... they're supposed to be safe now!
| 357 |
Bubblehead II Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:25:53pm |
Night Lizards. See you in the mourning. (yeah, I spelled it that way on purpose).
| 358 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:26:45pm |
re: #298 Buck
From the transcript:
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.
Okay, but that statement that he doesn't want to give out his address indicates that he thinks the kid might still be close enough to overhear. Why would he be concerned about that if the kid ran off and he wasn't still following him? There's an inconsistency in both that and the distance between the nearest street where his car could have been parked and where the killing took place. If his story is that he was attacked as he returned to his car, why did the killing take place on the footpath behind the homes? Here's a map of the area, the shooting took place at (F).
| 359 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:27:23pm |
re: #355 BeenHereAwhile
Mark M. O'Mara
Martindale-Hubbell:
Peer Review Rating: AV® Preeminent™ 5.0 out of 5.His peers believe O'Mara is a *very* good attorney. There's a lot of good attorneys who would like to have an AV Martindale-Hubbell rating.
I guess that fundraising website paid off!
//
| 360 |
Ben G. Hazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:30:19pm |
| 361 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:31:00pm |
Is it too much to hope that we can put this discussion to bed at least until it gets into the courtroom? Mission Accomplished, as it were.
| 362 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:31:03pm |
#GeorgeZimmerman just arrived at the Seminole Co Jail in Sanford #trayvonmartin twitter.com/DaraleneJones/…
— Daralene Jones (@DaraleneJones) April 12, 2012
The followed the convoy. Apparently he was in Jacksonville?
| 363 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:31:45pm |
re: #358 goddamnedfrank
"Let's play whac-a-buck again!"//
| 364 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:33:24pm |
re: #361 Oblivious Troll
Is it too much to hope that we can put this discussion to bed at least until it gets into the courtroom? Mission Accomplished, as it were.
Too much. This is now in the realm of OJ and Casey Anthony. The peeps (me included) will be transfixed. Humans we be.
| 365 |
ReamWorks SKG Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:33:52pm |
Like most of you, I feel that the shooting of Trayvon Martin was irresponsible, unwarranted, and (given what I know) criminal. There's no excuse for patrolling your street in a residential area with a gun, looking for trouble. George Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged from the beginning; even if it was established that Mr. Martin threw a few punches at him. Martin was being followed and harassed and was plausibly scared and defensive. A trial is the best way we have to weed out the facts.
That being said, I think Angela Corey is full of crap when she says "we do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition."
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
That's EXACTLY what Florida is doing. Had there been no public outcry, they would have ignored the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
| 366 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:34:27pm |
A Zimmerman friend just made a football analogy, calling the new lawyer their quarterback who was going to throw the ball into the "endzone of innocence."
| 367 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:36:21pm |
re: #365 ReamWorks SKG
I strongly disagree. Yes, there would have been no further looking into this case/no investigation. Once the proper investigation has been performed, the decision to prosecute or not to prosecute depends on the results of this investigation, not on petitions from anyone.
So while we don't know the behind-the-scenes game, prima facie there is no reason to dismiss Corey's statement.
| 368 |
kirkspencer Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:36:38pm |
re: #349 ProGunLiberal
The V-22, at least to me belongs in the same category as the F-22 and the F-35. Costly boondoggles.
They were there for a joint exercise with the Moroccans, which we do yearly. We are there to help the readiness of a close allies under-equipped military, not to have our own crap decide to fuck up and kill people.
Disagree.
The big thing about the Osprey is that it is a game-changer at the tactical logistics level. As to 'at an exercise', I hated it when training accidents killed people, but it does happen. Also, as of right now we don't know if it was aircraft or pilot (or external circumstances) that caused the crash.
As to the F-22 and F-35, I'm mixed. I lean to agreement with the f-22 but not the f-35. At the same time I get peeved when all the blame lands on the military for cost overruns instead of congressional acts like changing the numbers order and delaying procurement timelines and adding/changing requirements...
fwiw, the F-22 is an outstanding fighter, able to outfight six to ten modern aircraft in anyone else's inventory. There are major advantages to this. The downside is it is subject to what I call the superman syndrome. Superman has total local superiority, but he cannot be everywhere. And where he is not, the normal bad guys are good enough. When our F-22 has 6:1 superiority but is outnumbered 12:1 because of the cost restraints, we have a problem.
The f-35 is not quite as good as the F-22, but it's significantly less expensive. And, it turns out, much more flexible in operational design. That last is partly intentional, partly serendipitous because of the intent. That is, it was intended to have three models, one of which was the jump-jet for the marines. The need to have that much flexibility actually increased other operational flexibility. I have a sneaking suspicion the F-35 is going to gain a reputation - a good one - due to the variations it can handle.
| 369 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:36:40pm |
re: #361 Oblivious Troll
Is it too much to hope that we can put this discussion to bed at least until it gets into the courtroom? Mission Accomplished, as it were.
Agree. I'm satisfied that this is going to get an adversarial presentation before a jury. I will have no grounds to double-guess them.
| 370 |
Buck Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:37:04pm |
re: #358 goddamnedfrank
Okay, but that statement that he doesn't want to give out his address indicates that he thinks the kid might still be close enough to overhear. Why would he be concerned about that if the kid ran off and he wasn't still following him? There's an inconsistency in both that and the distance between the nearest street where his car could have been parked and where the killing took place. If his story is that he was attacked as he returned to his car, why did the killing take place on the footpath behind the homes? Here's a map of the area, the shooting took place at (F).
I don't know how the data in that map (where the 911 call ended for example) comes from.
| 371 |
ReamWorks SKG Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:37:50pm |
re: #2 makeitstop
Actually, the radical-lefty-conspiracy blogs which I can't keep myself from checking were saying that he was hiding out in Israel! I guess this may make them stop.
| 372 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:39:11pm |
re: #371 ReamWorks SKG
Actually, the radical-lefty-conspiracy blogs which I can't keep myself from checking were saying that he was hiding out in Israel! I guess this may make them stop.
What blogs? My LWNJ list is thin.
| 373 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:40:41pm |
re: #365 ReamWorks SKG
Like most of you, I feel that the shooting of Trayvon Martin was irresponsible, unwarranted, and (given what I know) criminal. There's no excuse for patrolling your street in a residential area with a gun, looking for trouble. George Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged from the beginning; even if it was established that Mr. Martin threw a few punches at him. Martin was being followed and harassed and was plausibly scared and defensive. A trial is the best way we have to weed out the facts.
That being said, I think Angela Corey is full of crap when she says "we do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition."
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
That's EXACTLY what Florida is doing. Had there been no public outcry, they would have ignored the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
I agree. But she is in the position of treading such a fine line, BECAUSE of exactly that.
| 374 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:41:09pm |
*sigh*
GOP Congressman: We Can’t Impeach Obama Because We Don’t Have The Votes Yet
Why hasn’t Congress impeached President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder? Rep. Todd Akin says it’s simply a lack of votes. But he says that may change eventually.
“That’s a good question,” Akin told a constituent on Tuesday who asked just that. “I can’t speak for the other 400 and some congressmen, but I believe when they take a look at impeachment the question is do you have the votes to do it and, if you do it, it goes to the Senate, what’s going to happen with Harry Reid?”
Here's a thought-- how about having actual grounds for impeachment first? Moron.
| 375 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:42:15pm |
re: #374 Lidane
*sigh*
GOP Congressman: We Can’t Impeach Obama Because We Don’t Have The Votes Yet
Here's a thought-- how about having actual grounds for impeachment first? Moron.
Since when being black while Presidenting is not actual grounds for impeachment?/
| 376 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:44:13pm |
re: #375 Johnny Derp
Since when being black while Presidenting is not actual grounds for impeachment?/
Oh, its the double whammy. Black President, black Atty General. They really lost their shit over Holder. Shows every single day.
| 377 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:46:03pm |
re: #376 Hoodies for Justice. T
Oh, its the double whammy. Black President, black Atty General. They really lost their shit over Holder. Shows every single day.
Not only that, but reading through the RWNJ blogs today for comments about Zimmerman, I noticed quite a few that are convinced that Barack Obama has a super secret all black security force for himself and that the Secret Service agents we see around him of different races are all a ruse.
These same people will also swear up and down that they're not racists. It's mind-blowing.
| 378 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:48:09pm |
re: #371 ReamWorks SKG
Actually, the radical-lefty-conspiracy blogs which I can't keep myself from checking were saying that he was hiding out in Israel! I guess this may make them stop.
Yeah, which blogs are those?
| 379 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:48:15pm |
Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:
[Link: twitter.com...]
| 380 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:48:42pm |
re: #368 kirkspencer
The F-35 is know having cost overruns at least as bad as the F-22. Not only that, but the Stealth it does have comes at the price of being generally less useful than its competitors overseas, two of which would make better alternatives (JAS-39 for Ground Based, Rafale for Naval Based).
When one tries to build a fighter that can do anything, we end up with a useless plane that can do none of the jobs well. Cancel, and negotiate with France and Sweden for buying the rights to build those two here.
Anyone else have some points about the F-22 and F-35?
| 381 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:52:10pm |
re: #371 ReamWorks SKG
Actually, the radical-lefty-conspiracy blogs which I can't keep myself from checking were saying that he was hiding out in Israel! I guess this may make them stop.
Which blog was this?
| 382 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:52:32pm |
re: #379 Charles Johnson
Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:
[Link: twitter.com...]
Wonder if it had anything to do with the Rodan audio?
| 383 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:53:36pm |
re: #379 Charles Johnson
Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:
[Link: twitter.com...]
*my best Nelson voice*
HA HA!
| 384 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:53:49pm |
re: #382 Gus
Interesting idea. I do wonder. This has been a bad week for Conservatives.
| 385 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:54:08pm |
re: #379 Charles Johnson
Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:
[Link: twitter.com...]
What did that link say, since it no longer exists?
| 386 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:54:24pm |
The new mug shot of Geo Z.
Just got new pic of #GeorgeZimmerman after he was booked in the jail for second degree murder of #TrayvonMartin twitter.com/DaraleneJones/…
— Daralene Jones (@DaraleneJones) April 12, 2012
| 387 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:54:42pm |
Once again I suspect a sympathetic admin.
| 388 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:56:53pm |
Broken nose, my ass!!!
— Extreme Liberal (@ExtremeLiberal) April 12, 2012
| 389 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:57:39pm |
Planned Parenthood vs. neo-theo fight comes down to the local level:
Houston City Council approves funding for family planning
"This nation needs to return to our foundation of biblical principals being taught in schools, versus government trying to educate folks on how to plan a family," Houston City Councilwoman Helena Brown said.
Brown's remarks surprised the city's health department, which offers the family planning services to low-income women and doesn't involve abortion.
| 390 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:58:44pm |
RT "@CBSMiami: BREAKING: George Zimmerman's new mugshot. twitter.com/CBSMiami/statu..."— SportsGirl101 (@Arianna8927) April 12, 2012
| 391 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 11, 2012 5:59:33pm |
re: #382 Gus
I've never seen Twitter do anything like this before. As far as I know, it's unprecedented - they usually take a very hands-off approach and it's difficult to get them to take action. But these stalker morons really were harassing a LOT of people, and acting like complete assholes. Maybe somebody higher up at Twitter noticed what was going on and didn't like it - but I'm just speculating. I don't know.
But I'm enjoying it greatly, as the target of their lame-brained organized smear campaign.
| 392 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:00:08pm |
| 393 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:01:03pm |
re: #392 Shvaughn
He looks like he's lost weight.
NYT reported he's 170, tho didn't give a source. I guess we'll know soon.
| 395 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:02:27pm |
re: #392 Shvaughn
He looks like he's lost weight.
He doesn't look like a dude with a month old broken nose to me.
I'm just glad he didn't show up with that typical neck brace.
| 396 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:03:19pm |
re: #388 Hoodies for Justice. T
It's been a bit over a month, as I've never gotten my nose broken, how long do they tend to leave visible evidence for? (Honest request for info)
| 397 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:05:26pm |
| 398 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:05:34pm |
re: #396 jamesfirecat
It's been a bit over a month, as I've never gotten my nose broken, how long do they tend to leave visible evidence for? (Honest request for info)
I have no idea. I would assume your nose would be crooked? Or bruising from surgery to fix? WHO KNOWS. I'm just guessing.
| 399 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:06:40pm |
re: #396 jamesfirecat
Type broken nose in google image search ;)
| 400 |
kirkspencer Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:07:47pm |
re: #380 ProGunLiberal
The F-35 is know having cost overruns at least as bad as the F-22. Not only that, but the Stealth it does have comes at the price of being generally less useful than its competitors overseas, two of which would make better alternatives (JAS-39 for Ground Based, Rafale for Naval Based).
When one tries to build a fighter that can do anything, we end up with a useless plane that can do none of the jobs well. Cancel, and negotiate with France and Sweden for buying the rights to build those two here.
Anyone else have some points about the F-22 and F-35?
On what basis are you considering it less useful than the JAS-39 or the Rafale?
| 401 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:08:21pm |
re: #391 Charles Johnson
I've never seen Twitter do anything like this before. As far as I know, it's unprecedented - they usually take a very hands-off approach and it's difficult to get them to take action. But these stalker morons really were harassing a LOT of people, and acting like complete assholes. Maybe somebody higher up at Twitter noticed what was going on and didn't like it - but I'm just speculating. I don't know.
But I'm enjoying it greatly, as the target of their lame-brained organized smear campaign.
I know I've complained several times to no avail. Let's hope they're finally taking action that lasts.
| 402 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:09:00pm |
The "Fox mole" identifies himself: gaw.kr/Io6bb9 Says he was "suspended indefinitely, with pay" by the network today.
— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) April 12, 2012
Tomorrow will be interesting!
| 403 |
Peter Kaufman Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:10:13pm |
Reading the reactions to the indictment on blogs like HotAir, is like watching Ed Begley's rant in "12 Angry Men".
| 404 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:10:13pm |
What broken nose? I see some inflammation on his right nostril area. But I don't see a "life and death struggle" broken nose.
| 405 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:10:55pm |
re: #402 Hoodies for Justice. T
Tomorrow will be interesting!
Fox is nervously wondering what else he has on them. That explains the "with pay". Next up a big payday with a gag order for the mole.
| 406 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:13:47pm |
re: #405 Mich-again
Fox is nervously wondering what else he has on them. That explains the "with pay". Next up a big payday with a gag order for the mole.
And he worked for Bill O. ha
| 407 |
Shvaughn Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:16:21pm |
re: #404 Gus
What broken nose? I see some inflammation on his right nostril area. But I don't see a "life and death struggle" broken nose.
It's been a month and a half.
| 410 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:20:02pm |
re: #402 Hoodies for Justice. T
Tomorrow will be interesting!
What did he do that was so great, though? Expose the Romneys' love of horseys?
| 411 |
lawhawk Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:21:11pm |
re: #379 Charles Johnson
Cleaning out the Augean Stables as it were...
| 412 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:24:54pm |
re: #397 goddamnedfrank
Future generations Troll will mourn the Black Wednesday of Twitter.
Its tragic that I am unable to find the clip of the flaming bulls plowing into the soldiers to provide a dramatic reenactment of the events.
| 413 |
Lidane Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:25:21pm |
In trying to portray his client in as sympathetic terms as possible, Zimmerman’s new attorney Mark O’Mara said this evening that Zimmerman is “troubled by everything that has happened.” O’Mara added, “Truly, it must be frightening to not be able to not be able to go into a 7/11 or into a store and literally to be in fact a prisoner wherever he was.”
You know what else sucks? Walking home from a 7-11 with Skittles and a can of iced tea and getting murdered.
| 414 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:27:09pm |
re: #410 Oblivious Troll
What did he do that was so great, though? Expose the Romneys' love of horseys?
Ya, that and the Fox bathroom curtains. We will see. I've always wondered how such a big company only employs right wing co-patriots.
| 415 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:27:58pm |
Maddow just owned the shit out of Allen West
| 417 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:29:37pm |
re: #400 kirkspencer
It's a slower plane lacking the range and ordinance, not to mention the fact that upkeep (we already know how the upkeep will be off of the F-22) that it will require a great deal of maintenance for every hour in the air.
Not only that, but the type of stealth here ain't perfect. There are other ways to detect an aircraft rather than radar or IR.
Also, the ballooning costs are aggravating, as it now costs $200 million a pop. We need to be fiscally responsible, and the DoD is a bloated and corrupt. Probably the most corrupt department in the US Government.
Kill the F-35, and find a replacement that won't cause the US to go bankrupt.
| 418 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:30:45pm |
re: #379 Charles Johnson
Haha, I wonder how much of Rodan's trust fund allowance goes towards keeping their little site up each month
| 419 |
BenghaziHoops Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:31:34pm |
re: #409 Gus
Was almost falling asleep in my chair.
I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off
| 420 |
jaunte Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:32:07pm |
Hannity and Michelle Malkin are all over that New Black Panther Party story. They might manage to bring in a new recruit for them.
| 421 |
Gus Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:33:21pm |
re: #419 HoosierHoops
I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off
You think it's dead for good? Sometimes you have to pull out the q-tips. Maybe not.
| 422 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:33:23pm |
re: #419 HoosierHoops
I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off
Please tell me you took the battery out...
Unless it's an iphone, of course.
| 423 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:33:40pm |
re: #420 jaunte
Hannity and Michelle Malkin are all over that New Black Panther Party story. They might manage to bring in a new recruit for them.
"LOOK! A HUGE DISTRACTING THING!"
| 424 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:34:43pm |
| 425 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:37:47pm |
re: #419 HoosierHoops
I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off
Oh and put it in a bag of rice (overnight, at least). Soaks up the moisture.
| 426 |
Cheechako Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:41:24pm |
re: #380 ProGunLiberal
The F-35 is know having cost overruns at least as bad as the F-22. Not only that, but the Stealth it does have comes at the price of being generally less useful than its competitors overseas, two of which would make better alternatives (JAS-39 for Ground Based, Rafale for Naval Based).
When one tries to build a fighter that can do anything, we end up with a useless plane that can do none of the jobs well. Cancel, and negotiate with France and Sweden for buying the rights to build those two here.
Anyone else have some points of the F-22 and F-35?
I'll jump in. A friend is working on the survivability of the F-35 in combat. He tells me that the F-35 has fuel lines located inside the wings that can only be serviced for leaks by taking off the skin of the wings. A small leak will take many hours to be repaired. And you can't fly a plane which has a fuel leak!
Also, the F-35 engine by itself is too large to fit inside a Carrier Delivery (COD) plane to transport to an aircraft carrier. Plus, aircraft carriers, as large as they are, do not have room to store a couple of dozen spare engines.
| 427 |
BenghaziHoops Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:44:13pm |
re: #425 Oblivious Troll
Oh and put it in a bag of rice (overnight, at least). Soaks up the moisture.
Thanks..I heard that.. I blew it, I pulled it out of the toilet and cleaned it off under the sink knowing full well I was killing it but after all it was in a bowl of piss, What are you going to do?
I am so pissed off
| 428 |
CSUH2001 Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:44:45pm |
I think the media needs to point out that Bobby Seale the original black panther party leader is not apart of this group. This ground has no real membership, they are a strawman and its dishonest to bring them up.
| 429 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:45:33pm |
re: #426 Cheechako
I thought I was missing more than a few things. Thank you very much.
You should post more on here.
| 430 |
Four More Tears Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:47:43pm |
re: #427 HoosierHoops
Thanks..I heard that.. I blew it, I pulled it out of the toilet and cleaned it off under the sink knowing full well I was killing it but after all it was in a bowl of piss, What are you going to do?
I am so pissed off
Oh. Yeah. She's dead, Jim. Have insurance on it?
| 431 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:50:19pm |
re: #413 Lidane
You know what else sucks? Walking home from a 7-11 with Skittles and a can of iced tea and getting murdered.
This- Seriously Zimmerman's lawyers and family are making it practically impossible to feel sorry for him at all by making him into a victim. Newsflash, George wasn't the one killed.
| 432 |
Cheechako Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:50:32pm |
re: #429 ProGunLiberal
I thought I was missing more than a few things. Thank you very much.
You should post more on here.
I do when I have something important to say.
| 433 |
palomino Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:53:07pm |
re: #24 Charles Johnson
Florida is the most bizarre of the states.
As someone who spent the first 25 years of my life in TX, and the last 20 years in Cali, all I can say is Thank God for FL. It makes me feel like my home and adopted states are a little less screwed up, and no longer have the dubious distinction of being America's most bizarre state.
| 434 |
Big Joe Ghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 6:53:24pm |
| 435 |
BenghaziHoops Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:01:20pm |
re: #430 Oblivious Troll
Oh. Yeah. She's dead, Jim. Have insurance on it?
It's so much worse than that..This is the 2nd company Cell I have killed this year..It's only April. Now I'll have to talk to security and sign paperwork agreeing I'm a f*ck up.
I screamed so loud and pissed off a Neighbor lady came knocking thinking something was wrong
| 436 |
CSUH2001 Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:04:06pm |
| 437 |
Big Joe Ghazi Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:05:33pm |
re: #436 CSUH2001
Good to know I studied them in high school
I live in the east bay, they were around when I was in High School.
| 439 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:09:44pm |
re: #433 palomino
Florida has always been the Special Snowflake of the Union.
| 440 |
BenghaziHoops Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:15:34pm |
re: #437 Ghost of Tom Joad
I live in the east bay, they were around when I was in High School.
I love the East Bay..Nikki was born at Merritt Hospital
| 441 |
CSUH2001 Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:16:09pm |
re: #437 Ghost of Tom Joad
I live in the east bay, they were around when I was in High School.
:( I grew up over there in the SF bay area. I live in TX now, its awful here. A local city here was profiled by CNN recently for its racism.
| 442 |
BenghaziHoops Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:17:23pm |
re: #441 CSUH2001
:( I grew up over there in the SF bay area. I live in TX now, its awful here. A local city here was profiled by CNN recently for its racism.
I grew up in Napa Valley.. I'm in Oklahoma right now
| 443 |
Eclectic Infidel Wed, Apr 11, 2012 7:47:27pm |
Just got in - have been almost living in the main kitchen at school, prepping each morning and night for the A La Minute Vegetarian station/line. That said, haven't been around LGF much but just wanted to say, regarding Zimmerman... IT'S ABOUT FRAKKEN TIME!
| 444 |
Mich-again Wed, Apr 11, 2012 8:01:57pm |
If the Sanford Police had charged him with manslaughter that night, it would have not made the National News and Zimmerman would've been able to plead down to a lesser crime, spend a year or two in jail and be free.
But then his Dad and/or the NRA influenced AG conspired to to let him walk away hiding behind SYG, which created the national outrage which ends with Zimmerman getting the Murder 2 charge, and now he's probably going to plead down to manslaughter and serve 10 years or more.
Nice job helicopter dad..
| 445 |
CarleeCork Wed, Apr 11, 2012 8:33:52pm |
re: #374 Lidane
*sigh*
GOP Congressman: We Can’t Impeach Obama Because We Don’t Have The Votes Yet
Here's a thought-- how about having actual grounds for impeachment first? Moron.
Try it assholes. I would head to DC in support of our President.
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