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1 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 2:56:17pm

It has become impossible to tell parody from reality in US politics.

2 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:04:05pm
In November 2011, after chuckling his way through the dozenth Republican presidential primary debate like it was the season finale of “Arrested Development,” Obama revealed his 2012 campaign strategy to a group of Hispanic journalists.

“I don’t think it requires us to go negative in the sense of us running a bunch of ads that are false or character assassinations,” he said. “We may just run clips of the Republican debates verbatim. We won’t even comment on them; we’ll just run those in a loop.”

As it turned out, he wasn’t kidding.

Youtube Video
3 Kragar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:11:04pm

TOGA! TOGA!

4 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:13:58pm

Oh noz! News Corp phone hacking outfit is angry!

Obvious response is obvious.

5 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:15:55pm

re: #4 Gus

Oh noz! News Corp phone hacking outfit is angry!

Obvious response is obvious.

If it was good enough for Rupert Murdoch, it's good enough for me!

//

6 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:27:04pm

re: #4 Gus

Oh noz! News Corp phone hacking outfit is angry!

Obvious response is obvious.

Besides the obvious, New York is a "one-consent" state for recording conversations. And I can't see a thing on there that violates laws unless they're false (libel).

On the other hand those are really deep pockets for FOX's attorneys.

7 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:28:29pm

Oh brother.

8 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:29:39pm

re: #6 kirkspencer

Besides the obvious, New York is a "one-consent" state for recording conversations. And I can't see a thing on there that violates laws unless they're false (libel).

On the other hand those are really deep pockets for FOX's attorneys.

And nothing shows Mitt Romney's true colors better than him sitting there staring at Sean Hannity with gratitude for reassuring him that he wouldn't get asked any tough questions.

9 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:39:31pm

re: #7 Gus

Now Ailes is saying the Muslim Brotherhood "visited the White House."

— Gabriel Sherman (@gabrielsherman) April 12, 2012

Oh brother.

It has regular tours, right?

10 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:39:35pm

re: #8 darthstar

And nothing shows Mitt Romney's true colors better than him sitting there staring at Sean Hannity with gratitude for reassuring him that he wouldn't get asked any tough questions.

Try stealing stuff of your employers computer and selling it to a competitor and see what happens.
I assume you would somehow feel different if a wingnut did this to MSNBC.

11 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:42:12pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Try stealing stuff of your employers computer and selling it to a competitor and see what happens.
I assume you would somehow feel different if a wingnut did this to MSNBC.

Nope, don't care.

12 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:43:34pm

re: #7 Gus

Oh brother.

Sheriff Arpaio is on the case.

13 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:44:13pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Try stealing stuff of your employers computer and selling it to a competitor and see what happens.
I assume you would somehow feel different if a wingnut did this to MSNBC.

I dont know...if this was Bret Baier or Chris Wallace, it might be a different story. But I have no sympathy for Sean Hannity. He has a laundry list of Obama "sins" that he checks off every day. Most of those things on the list are Bullshit or damn lies.

14 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:44:14pm

re: #3 Kragar

TOGA! TOGA!

I totally did not need to see him in a toga.
:/

15 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:45:36pm

Daddy told me that if I expected to get a Ferrari for my 18th birthday I would have to brush the Arabian horses 1 hour a day for 5 years! That was HARD work. I know what it's like to suffer. Still. I don't really feel rich.

//

16 Kragar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:45:37pm

re: #14 Varek Raith

I totally did not need to see him in a toga.
:/

Perhaps a mumu?

17 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:45:42pm

Ken Ham explains critical thinking; "real" science:
[Link: twitter.com...]

18 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:46:44pm

re: #17 jaunte

Ken Ham explains critical thinking; "real" science:
[Link: twitter.com...]

Merp.

Can I say that? It's like a derp but with an "m".

19 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:48:33pm

My dad... I wanted a Ferrari Testarossa but he got me a Porsche 935 instead. I've never forgiven him for that. I suffered for 10 years after that event. Worst birthday ever.

//

20 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:49:35pm
21 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:51:00pm

Obama Rejects Rosen’s Comments on Ann Romney

“I don’t have a lot of patience for commentary about the spouses of political candidates,” he told KCRG.
“My general view is those of us who are in the public life, we’re fair game. Our families are civilians,” he said. “I haven’t met Mrs. Romney, but she seems like a very nice woman who is supportive of her family and supportive of her husband. I don’t know if she necessarily volunteered for this job so, you know, we don’t need to be directing comments at them. I think me and Governor Romney are going to have more than enough to argue about during the course of this campaign.”

22 Kragar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:53:00pm

re: #17 jaunte

Ken Ham explains critical thinking; "real" science:
[Link: twitter.com...]

Can Ken Ham explain alternative explanations of gravity for me? It is just a theory after all.

SCIENCE!

23 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:53:12pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Obama Rejects Rosen’s Comments on Ann Romney

He's awfully clean-cut and well-spoken for someone who's married to a wookie.

24 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:54:13pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

Don't get me started.

25 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:54:32pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

He's awfully clean-cut and well-spoken for someone who's married to a wookie.

BRB. I have an idea! Going to head over to Hot Air...

//

26 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:54:33pm

re: #22 Kragar

Can Ken Ham explain alternative explanations of gravity for me? It is just a theory after all.

SCIENCE!

Yeah, see, it's your stench. It repels the very universe itself.
Get some deodorant.

27 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:56:15pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Don't get me started.

Lookit!
OWS!

28 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:57:20pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Obama Rejects Rosen’s Comments on Ann Romney

Ooo, I feel so bad now for mocking the... no, I don't. These public comments by the Romneys are too mock-worthy and deserving of the same level of thoughtfulness and sensitivity as the people behind them publicly direct at us great unwashed serfs Mr. Romney so enjoys firing.

29 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:57:22pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Try stealing stuff of your employers computer and selling it to a competitor and see what happens.
I assume you would somehow feel different if a wingnut did this to MSNBC.

If somebody exposed that MSNBC is coddling someone? I would like to know that.

30 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:58:09pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

Lookit!
OWS!

OWs hasn't done anything interesting in quite a while. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they can pull off some violent riots for the nato summit in Chicago next month but I doubt they'll get enough people to show up.

31 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:58:15pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Obama Rejects Rosen’s Comments on Ann Romney

Who, other than the wingnuts, was ever under the impression that Obama approved of the comments made by a "former political strategist" on CNN?

32 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:59:11pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Try stealing stuff of your employers computer and selling it to a competitor and see what happens.
I assume you would somehow feel different if a wingnut did this to MSNBC.

Hell, did I say I felt sorry for the mole? Nope. Don't read into my mockery of Mitt Fucktard Romney anything more than is already there.

33 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:59:51pm

re: #32 darthstar

Hell, did I say I felt sorry for the mole? Nope. Don't read into my mockery of Mitt Fucktard Romney anything more than is already there.

No. Subtext will be read. MOONBATS WILL BE EXPOSED!

34 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:02:02pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Who, other than the wingnuts, was ever under the impression that Obama approved of the comments made by a "former political strategist" on CNN?

Everyone to the left of Rand Paul shares a hive mind. I read it on the intertubes.

35 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:05:04pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Try stealing stuff of your employers computer and selling it to a competitor and see what happens.
I assume you would somehow feel different if a wingnut did this to MSNBC.

It's a fair point, but at least the mole and Gawker are open about what they did and willing to face the consequences without obstruction. On the other hand FOX and Murdoch's other operations have a history of unclean hands with the phone hacking scandal and publishing the stolen East Anglia emails. If turnabout isn't fair play at least it's hilarious.

36 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:06:49pm
37 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:06:53pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

He's awfully clean-cut and well-spoken clean and articulate for someone who's married to a Wookiee.

FTFY...

///off the charts

38 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:08:16pm

re: #36 jaunte

And another season of starvation comes to North Korea, courtesy of its insane, evil leaders.

39 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:09:48pm
40 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:10:54pm

re: #35 goddamnedfrank

It's a fair point, but at least the mole and Gawker are open about what they did and willing to face the consequences without obstruction. On the other hand FOX and Murdoch's other operations have a history of unclean hands with the phone hacking scandal and publishing the stolen East Anglia emails. If turnabout isn't fair play at least it's hilarious.

Good point. What Gawker was doing with said Mole was largely a publicity stunt in an almost light hearted manner. News Corpse, which includes Fox News, was engaged in wide spread rampant phone hacking, bribes and other illegal activity in the UK. This activity violated the right to privacy of British citizens including family members of the war dead. There is no moral or ethical equivalency here.

41 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:12:15pm

re: #40 Gus

The Mole is a whistleblower (who will deal with consequences).

42 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:16:34pm

re: #40 Gus

Good point. What Gawker was doing with said Mole was largely a publicity stunt in an almost light hearted manner. News Corpse, which includes Fox News, was engaged in wide spread rampant phone hacking, bribes and other illegal activity in the UK. This activity violated the right to privacy of British citizens including family members of the war dead. There is no moral or ethical equivalency here.

And apparently not only over in the UK; isn't there some investigations going on over here involving some hinky shit News Corp. units have been pulling?

43 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:19:26pm

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

44 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:19:45pm

re: #42 talon_262

And apparently not only over in the UK; isn't there some investigations going on over here involving some hinky shit News Corp. units have been pulling?

I was going to say around the world but focused on the UK. Don't know much more than that.

Guess I could go further. People getting butthurt over a "mole" at Fox News? What about sending imposters to ACORN offices under false pretenses and creating faked videos that led to the demise of ACORN? This was largely promoted by Fox News itself. I am talking about James O'Keefe.

45 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:19:57pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

HA HA!!!

/Nelson Muntz

46 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:20:35pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

I'm pretty sure NK will soon release some photos that will prove you wrong!!1/

47 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:20:39pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

Does this mean the food shipments can go on schedule?

//

48 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:21:33pm

re: #46 Johnny Derp

I'm pretty sure NK will soon release some photos that will prove you wrong!!1/

Begins with the NK national anthem. Cut to crying NK new anchor woman. Grainy film of rocket breaking apart...

49 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:23:51pm

re: #44 Gus

I was going to say around the world but focused on the UK. Don't know much more than that.

Guess I could go further. People getting butthurt over a "mole" at Fox News? What about sending imposters to ACORN offices under false pretenses and creating faked videos that led to the demise of ACORN? This was largely promoted by Fox News itself. I am talking about James O'Keefe.

Of course Fox News and Okeefe are scumbags. I don't think emulating their tactics is a good idea.

50 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:28:43pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

Ground Control to Major Tom, your circuit's dead, there's something wrong...

/

51 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:31:27pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Of course Fox News and Okeefe are scumbags. I don't think emulating their tactics is a good idea.

Who's emulating them? Gawker? You are familiar with Gawker right?

52 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:32:38pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Of course Fox News and Okeefe are scumbags. I don't think emulating their tactics is a good idea.

Circulating b-roll video =/= Lying by editing video plus illegal surveillance.

I think the Fox Mole thing is unethical and dumb (and likely a stunt to drum up interest in the inevitable book), but comparing it to a long-term campaign of privacy violation (NewsCorp) and the promotion of outright lies (O'Keefe) feels a bit fake.

53 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:33:32pm

haha

54 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:33:51pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Of course Fox News and Okeefe are scumbags. I don't think emulating their tactics is a good idea.

I'm not sure this is emulating their tactics. The mole worked at Fox News for years and over that time organically grew disaffected by what he saw as a corrupt organization. He wasn't some undercover soviet sleeper agent sent in with a mission nor did he seek employment under false pretenses, he simply came to hate his employer, it happens. I'm not aware that he or Gawker are selectively editing video or gaming the circumstances like O'Keefe. They're simply exposing what goes on behind the scenes at FOX, admittedly by stealing and airing footage that is FOX's property.

55 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:34:25pm
Here are the steps the President must take and take them now!:

1.) Find out who Hilary Rosen is.

2.) Hire Hilary Rosen. (preferably to some czar level position)

3.) Express outrage over remarks that Hilary Rosen made.

4.) Apologize to Ann Romney.

5.) Fire Hilary Rosen.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

56 celticdragon  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:35:57pm

Oopsie...

The rocket broke up in flight.

I guess I should have mentioned that I lost a couple of wrenches and 3 screwdrivers when I was closing up the access panel to the fuel control rigging on the stage one booster...

:D

57 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:36:34pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

Best Korea rocket launch an incredible success!11!

58 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:37:13pm

re: #55 Adam, Eve and Steve

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

To be fair, check her taxes first...
//

59 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:37:23pm

North Korea's Hyundai doesn't get far off the ground before breaking up...no one could have predicted that. And if you think that was bad, you should see Iran's nuclear capabilities.

60 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:37:31pm

Fer real

61 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:39:45pm

re: #60 Hoodies for Justice. T

Fer real

Well they told me to bring an appetizer!

62 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:40:37pm

From CNN: Pentagon sources said that the rocket fell apart in the atmosphere, nothing making it into space.

63 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:42:18pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

Youtube Video
64 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:42:24pm

re: #62 Give the Mule what he wants

From CNN: Pentagon sources said that the rocket fell apart in the atmosphere, nothing making it into space.

Well, it didn't explode on the pad, so I guess that's progress.

65 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:46:15pm

Charlie Pierce over at Esquire continues to be hilarious:

A St. Louis Cardinal and the Ladyparts Papist Chase

Also, one of the greatest comments I've ever read about the issue:

Jesus H. Christ buying a basket full of things he doesn't really need at CVS so the box of condoms won't seem so obvious. Don't you think if Jesus could walk on water, heal the blind and the lame, feed the masses with only five loaves and fishes, and resurrect himself from death, he could prolly figure out a way around a Trojan Ultrathin?

Haha. That's awesome.

66 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:47:09pm

re: #43 Give the Mule what he wants

Listening to CNN, they just said that the NK launch has failed. US officials have said that the rocket did ignite and "cleared the launch pad" but then broke apart in some manner.

Youtube Video
67 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:49:16pm

Hooray! I made so little money this year I don't owe taxes. God bless socialism!

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:51:13pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Hooray! I made so little money this year I don't owe taxes. God bless socialism!

Heh. Congrats... I guess?

70 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:52:28pm
71 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:52:37pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Hooray! I made so little money this year I don't owe taxes. God bless socialism!

You made less than Buffet's secretary!
//

72 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:52:57pm
An Open Letter to Sarah Palin: Why Do You Mistreat Your Donors?

The former Alaska governor used contributions to her PAC on a shameless vanity project that has nothing to do with conservative candidates or issues.

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

Conor Friedersdorf, the Atlantic.

Grifters gotta grift. Sorry Grandma & Grandpa.

73 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:53:43pm

re: #69 Adam, Eve and Steve

Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’

Sure, just like OJ.
//

74 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:53:59pm

re: #69 Adam, Eve and Steve

"This case will not – if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit – this case will result in an acquittal."

Except the affidavit clearly states that it does not list all the available evidence.

75 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:54:33pm

re: #69 Adam, Eve and Steve

Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’

Psst. Feck Dershowitz. He's a wingnut.

76 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:54:56pm

re: #69 Adam, Eve and Steve

Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’

Gah, he's such a contrarian these days. Oh and a 180 degree full fledged wingnut.

77 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:55:10pm

re: #75 Gus

Derpshowitz has a history (OJ), but I kind of wonder myself.

78 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:55:53pm

Outrage!

Flag With Obama Replacing Stars Angers Jersey Neighbors

Freaking Lumberton, NJ. Pfft.

79 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:56:39pm
80 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:58:18pm

re: #76 Hoodies for Justice. T

Gah, he's such a contrarian these days. Oh and a 180 degree full fledged wingnut.

He's got a point though. Objectively speaking that affidavit was incredibly disappointing. I was hoping for something new to support the charge, like a shooting distance determination.

81 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:59:19pm

re: #80 goddamnedfrank

He's got a point though. Objectively speaking that affidavit was incredibly disappointing. I was hoping for something new to support the charge, like a shooting distance determination.

We gotta wait.

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:59:30pm

re: #80 goddamnedfrank

He's got a point though. Objectively speaking that affidavit was incredibly disappointing. I was hoping for something new to support the charge, like a shooting distance determination.

Inclusion of TM's mother's identification of the voice is kinda weak (c'mon; it's not good evidence).

83 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:01:06pm

re: #82 Adam, Eve and Steve

Inclusion of TM's mother identification of the voice is kinda weak (c'mon; it's not good evidence).

It's been verified by a pro audio engineer.

84 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:01:14pm

re: #82 Adam, Eve and Steve

Inclusion of TM's mother identification of the voice is kinda weak (c'mon; it's not good evidence).

That too, one can discount the voice analysis experts opinions but at least they're unbiased. Why she went with the mother is a mystery.

85 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:02:56pm

re: #83 allegro

It's been verified by a pro audio engineer.

Well, we had a long discussion of this alleged verification (which I don't accept) in the relevant thread, no need to rehash it, I will only say that if they included *it*, it would at least be some kind of evidence. But they did not, so whether her identification has been verified or not is not relevant. They use *her* testimony as a means of verification.

86 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:05:33pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

I also don't think she should have presented that Zimmerman said "these fucking punks" on her own raw assertion. Of course I still hear coons, but then I have a racist half brother who grew up in the sticks that says it exactly like that. Point being though that a prosecutor's raw assertion on either of these points isn't really pro quality evidence appropriate for an affidavit of probable cause.

87 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:08:51pm

The affidavit, as I read it, lays out that George Zimmerman stalked a teenager as a criminal, based on no evidence at all, and as a result, said teenager is dead. Its GZ's state of mind that it basically laid out. That's all they needed to do at this point.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:08:57pm

re: #86 goddamnedfrank

Can the affidavit be challenged, or will the judge decide just based on its text?

89 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:09:12pm

What I will say about the affidavit is that there better be some truly dynamite evidence sitting in reserve for the pre-trial hearing or this thing won't make it past the courtroom steps. It's not exactly convincing me that the assertions from GZ's defenders that Corey's being pressured by mob mentality to produce a conviction are wrong.

90 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:09:28pm

re: #85 Adam, Eve and Steve

Well, we had a long discussion of this alleged verification (which I don't accept) in the relevant thread, no need to rehash it, I will only say that if they included *it*, it would at least be some kind of evidence. But they did not, so whether her identification has been verified or not is not relevant. They use *her* testimony as a means of verification.

I dont see what the big deal is. This is not the evidence. It is an explanation of the charges. The supporting evidence will be presented at the trial.

I dont think this prosecutor wanted to give much to the media. Other records have been sealed.

91 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:10:31pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Obama Rejects Rosen’s Comments on Ann Romney

He is always a class act.

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:11:47pm

re: #89 Targetpractice

What I will say about the affidavit is that there better be some truly dynamite evidence sitting in reserve for the pre-trial hearing or this thing won't make it past the courtroom steps. It's not exactly convincing me that the assertions from GZ's defenders that Corey's being pressured by mob mentality to produce a conviction are wrong.

Since there's potentially a lot of evidence that has to be addressed one way or another (autopsy, clothes analysis, SFD records etc.), I suppose the chances of "dynamite evidence" are good. So the "weak" affidavit can be explained by them not wanting to further reveal evidence, fuel the media speculation and taint the jury pool. That was a big concern during the presser.

93 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:12:32pm

re: #90 blueraven

I dont see what the big deal is. This is not the evidence. It is an explanation of the charges. The evidence will be presented at the trial.

I dont think this prosecutor wanted to give much to the media. Other records have been sealed.

It is certainly evidence - to establish the probable cause. We judge it as it is.

94 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:12:34pm

re: #88 Adam, Eve and Steve

Can the affidavit be challenged, or will the judge decide just based on its text?

I don't really know but I don't think so. Pretty sure the next step is arraignment and assuming a not guilty plea then an evidentiary hearing. That's where the prosecutor has to actually show their cards. I'm also really surprised the lawyer didn't ask for a bail hearing today.

95 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:14:10pm

re: #92 Adam, Eve and Steve

Since there's potentially a lot of evidence that has to be addressed one way or another (autopsy, clothes analysis, SFD records etc.), I suppose the chances of "dynamite evidence" are good. So the "weak" affidavit can be explained by them not wanting to further reveal evidence, fuel the media speculation and taint the jury pool. That was a big concern during the presser.

I understand it being a big concern, but I also saw a special prosecutor who seemed not be to giving a press conference about the very serious task of charging a man with second degree murder but rather one who was giving a campaign speech with the seriousness of the case almost a secondary concern.

Not that I am without faith that there is more to this case, but you'll forgive me if I remain rather skeptical until we see more.

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:14:28pm

re: #94 goddamnedfrank

I don't really know but I don't think so. Pretty sure the next step is arraignment and assuming a not guilty plea then an evidentiary hearing. That's where the prosecutor has to actually show their cards. I'm also really surprised the lawyer didn't ask for a bail hearing today.

So that I don't get this wrong: since the defense has to know all the evidence to decide on the question of the plea, the prosecutors have to give them access to all evidence, right?

97 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:14:36pm

Whew, for the last half hour we have been stuck in a police perimeter with snipers on a roof and all. Seems an angry neighbor fired a shotgun at someone he was arguing with. Nobody hit but LAPD locked this couple blocks down.

98 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:15:04pm

re: #93 Adam, Eve and Steve

It is certainly evidence - to establish the probable cause. We judge it as it is.

The fact that there were no good eye witnesses and the police had initially wanted to charge him with manslaughter is already probable cause.

Probable cause is a low bar.

99 dragonfire1981  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:15:16pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Obama Rejects Rosen’s Comments on Ann Romney

Considering the amount of vitriol thrown at his wife AND children by certain elements on the right that is a remarkably mature and measured response.

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:16:07pm

re: #98 blueraven

Well, you got a point there, but I still have doubts. I hope it'll be enough to get this started.

101 Kragar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:17:56pm

North Korea's rocket launch ends in failure

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:18:35pm

re: #101 Kragar

North Korea's rocket launch ends in failure

So, the Young One is pretty impotent, heh. /

103 BishopX  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:19:26pm

re: #94 goddamnedfrank

I don't really know but I don't think so. Pretty sure the next step is arraignment and assuming a not guilty plea then an evidentiary hearing. That's where the prosecutor has to actually show their cards. I'm also really surprised the lawyer didn't ask for a bail hearing today.

His defense lawyers said they wanted to wait a few weeks until the media coverage dies down before they ask for bail. Probably afraid Zimmerman will get shot if he makes bail.

104 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:19:36pm

re: #101 Kragar

North Korea's rocket launch ends in failure

Congrats, Kim Jr. You've sentenced yet more of your people to starvation in order to accomplish two things: Jack and Shit. A chip off the ol' block, you most definitely are.

105 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:19:42pm

Okay they got the shotgun shooter. In custody.

106 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:23:59pm

re: #100 Adam, Eve and Steve

Well, you got a point there, but I still have doubts. I hope it'll be enough to get this started.

Well maybe they have witnesses that can relay the true character of Zimmerman. Maybe they have his computer files, emails, text messages.
There could be a lot of evidence of prior behavior that we know nothing about.

107 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:26:12pm

Yeehaa! Watching the video "Beef Head Lean Harvesting". Damn it's gross.

108 Kragar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:26:17pm

Donors split with Mitt Romney on gay marriage

Mitt Romney’s opposition to gay marriage, which helped endear him to conservative activists during the dog days of the presidential primary, puts him at odds with three of his most prominent donors, all of whom helped fund a successful effort to legalize same-sex nuptials in New York last year.

109 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:26:44pm

re: #102 Adam, Eve and Steve

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:26:49pm

I must say that NRO readers are still a level above freepers. In the item about TM's mother saying it was an accident they're praising her.

In the FP threads concerning this issue freepers continue slinging mud.

Oh, and BTW, she retracted that statement.

111 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:26:50pm

re: #94 goddamnedfrank

I don't really know but I don't think so. Pretty sure the next step is arraignment and assuming a not guilty plea then an evidentiary hearing. That's where the prosecutor has to actually show their cards. I'm also really surprised the lawyer didn't ask for a bail hearing today.

Really?

Considering the public outcry and some less than savory comments/actions taken/made by some people there is nowhere safer for Gorge Zimmerman than in jail. Why would he want to risk his life by going out on bail?

112 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:27:08pm

Night Lizards.

May the Deity of Your choice smile down upon you and yours.

113 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:27:30pm

re: #109 jaunte

HA HA HA

114 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:27:53pm

And You Thought It Was Just ‘Pink’ Slime

115 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:27:56pm

So the real question is, who gets it up better? North Korea or Mitt Romney?

116 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:29:20pm

re: #114 Gus

So is it fit to eat or not? I think that's the only question that matters.

117 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:30:29pm

re: #116 Adam, Eve and Steve

So is it fit to eat or not? I think that's the only question that matters.

Yeah. I'm against waste. As long as this stuff is edible without torturing it with chemicals, it's fine with me.

If the only way it can be made palatable is harmful levels of ammonia and crap, then it's no good. But otherwise, it's just about not wasting things, and we can't afford to waste meat.

118 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:31:52pm

re: #116 Adam, Eve and Steve

So is it fit to eat or not? I think that's the only question that matters.

Lean Finely Textured Beef

Trimmings are typically collected from more bacteria-prone parts of the cow, but treatment with ammonia is supposed to kill pathogens. In 2009 some beef products have tested positive for E. coli and salmonella, but the USDA says it has modified inspection processes since then to address safety concerns. The USDA continues to "affirm the safety of Lean Finely Textured Beef product for all consumers."

Mechanically Separated Meat

Mechanically separated beef was prohibited for use as human food in 2004 due to concerns that spinal tissue (potentially carrying mad cow disease) could get mixed into the meat. Mechanically separated poultry and pork are still allowed.

Advanced Meat Recovery

The USDA requires that the spinal cord be removed before processing the neck bones and backbones, so that pieces do not get mixed into the meat.

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:32:50pm

re: #117 Obdicut

I'm pretty ignorant about this. It's USDA-approved, right? So, safe?

PS: "Pink slime" is, really, just counter-PR. Genius, no arguing with it, but purely emotional. So it's pink slime, so what?

120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:34:08pm

re: #101 Kragar

North Korea's rocket launch ends in failure

The Young One still signals that NK has gotten the first down though!

121 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:35:18pm

I guess it should officially be The Young'Un.

122 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:35:48pm

re: #119 Adam, Eve and Steve

I'm pretty ignorant about this. It's USDA-approved, right? So, safe?

PS: "Pink slime" is, really, just counter-PR. Genius, no arguing with it, but purely emotional. So it's pink slime, so what?

Well. Sounds safe but it also sounds like if they don't follow the regulations to the letter then we're looking at some serious hazards.

123 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:38:20pm

Running the Hilary Rosen gaffe through the ODS transmogrification filter results in:

124 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:40:28pm

re: #123 jaunte

Running the Hilary Rosen gaffe through the ODS transmogrification filter results in:

[Link: twitter.com...]

125 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:41:48pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

Okay they got the shotgun shooter. In custody.

Too much excitement in that neighborhood. Isn't this the second time in a few months?

126 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:43:08pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

Too much excitement in that neighborhood. Isn't this the second time in a few months?

Hopefully not Sarah's friends from AIP?

127 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:45:47pm

Later, lizards.

128 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:46:50pm

re: #124 Gus

Lots of guys who wouldn't utter a peep in favor of the Lilly Ledbetter equal pay act are willing to spend hours defending the right of stay-at-home moms to stay home unpaid.

129 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:52:07pm

re: #128 jaunte

Lots of guys who wouldn't utter a peep in favor of the Lilly Ledbetter equal pay act are willing to spend hours defending the right of stay-at-home moms to stay home unpaid.

They took the ball and ran with it. The wingers now think they've sidelined the "war on women" meme with this and found a moral equivalence with Rush Limbaugh. Republicans will likely do some fund raising with it. Ann Romney probably doesn't give a crap one way or the other.

130 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:53:55pm

re: #129 Gus

I really don't see it lasting that long. It'll become one of those things that the hardcore Obama haters mutter darkly, "Obama hates moms!".

131 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:54:48pm

re: #129 Gus

The wingers now think they've sidelined the "war on women" meme

The women are smarter.

132 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:55:59pm

re: #96 Adam, Eve and Steve

So that I don't get this wrong: since the defense has to know all the evidence to decide on the question of the plea, the prosecutors have to give them access to all evidence, right?

Yes, though Prosecutors often delay providing their own discovery materials to the defense until the last possible moment. See Brady v. Maryland.

133 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:57:16pm

re: #131 jaunte

The women are smarter.

The women are smarter that's right!

Youtube Video
134 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:57:49pm

re: #130 Obdicut

I really don't see it lasting that long. It'll become one of those things that the hardcore Obama haters mutter darkly, "Obama hates moms!".

Which is obviously stupid because Rosen made the comments on CNN and not Obama -- who distanced himself from these comments. Obama is not in any way against stay at home moms. Liberals, Democrats are not against stay at home moms. If they can afford it? More power to them.

135 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:57:59pm

Poor little Kim, his rocket didn't go anywhere. I bet some engineers are on the way to the labor camps. I think failure is not tolerated to well there.

But no one was as aggravated as my son was announcing that he and his wife were going to have a baby on April 1, April Fools Day. First baby. He sent me at least 6 or 7 pics of a positive pregnancy tests. He just can't take a joke. He showed up here in OKC on a 2 week vacation before he deploys to Japan. The aggravation on his face was priceless when he got out of his car. I'm glad I have pics. This is going to be a good story for the kid when he/she is old enough to appreciate it.

136 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:01:17pm

re: #130 Obdicut

I really don't see it lasting that long. It'll become one of those things that the hardcore Obama haters mutter darkly, "Obama hates moms!".

It will linger as a counter to the idea of a Republican "war on women."

It's the revanchist mindset...as long as they have an insult to riposte with they view themselves as winning the argument. That there no equivalence at all. That much of the scenario is a matter of taking something out of context and extrapolating bigger meaning--and, in this case, eliding Rosen with Obama via some mystic process--doesn't matter.

137 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:02:27pm

Sometimes autocorrect is just used as an excuse.

Image: 315723_10150311256866455_553371454_8015764_248732673_n.jpg

138 darthstar  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:03:51pm

How Twitter got its name

139 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:04:02pm

What the fuck?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Australia’s most senior-ranked Catholic official has risked an international backlash by claiming that Jews are ‘intellectually and morally inferior’.

Cardinal George Pell said ‘the little Jewish people’ were shepherds who lacked intellectual development during a debate with atheist Richard Dawkins.

He went on to claim that Germans had suffered more than the Jews during the horrors of the holocaust in the Second World War.
Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, said Jews were intellectually and morally inferior during a TV debate with atheist Richard Dawkins

140 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:05:30pm

The only thing about these Onion reports is that they are too true to be funny anymore.

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:05:41pm

Hey all!

I am so not impressed with Romney, but these little billy goat's gruffs are adorable! Be sure to scroll down!

How is the world outside the island today?

142 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:06:39pm

re: #137 darthstar

Sometimes autocorrect is just used as an excuse.

Image: 315723_10150311256866455_553371454_8015764_248732673_n.jpg

GOD DONUT!

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:07:41pm

re: #139 Obdicut

What the fuck?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

There are some really "winners" in power in the Church. G-d help us if they get the power they want.

144 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:08:51pm

re: #140 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

The only thing about these Onion reports is that they are too true to be funny anymore.

The also need to use their older cast member more. There were some really great comedic actors among the geezers.

145 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:09:59pm

And today I learned about Father Damien and Sister Marianne Cope and there lifes work on the Leper Colony in Hawaii in the last century.

There are some really good people in the Church as well. The ones really doing work and not sitting in meetings with funny hats.

146 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:11:43pm

Por ejemplo:

I believe that Moms do work and can’t stand liberals who think that Moms don’t. To show my support for the hard work done by Moms everywhere and to help defeat elitist liberals like Barack Obama, I would like to purchase a “Moms Do Work” travel mug.

True story.

147 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:13:14pm

re: #97 Daniel Ballard

Whew, for the last half hour we have been stuck in a police perimeter with snipers on a roof and all. Seems an angry neighbor fired a shotgun at someone he was arguing with. Nobody hit but LAPD locked this couple blocks down.

A month or so ago, a couple of miles away, a guy was drunk and threatening to kill someone, and refused to come out of the house. I drove by the area several times because it was off a main street. The house was visible across a small park and I swear every police car in the area seemed to fill the streets. It must have been a slow crime day elsewhere.

In the end, many hours later, the guy was found passed out or asleep and claimed to have had no idea the house was surrounded most of the day.

148 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:13:48pm

re: #146 Gus

Por ejemplo:

True story.

Ya know, I've worked and spent time as a stay-at-home-mom.

Staying home rots your brain. Seriously. If you don't get out and at least voluneteer somewhere other than your kid's school, your brain atrophies.

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:14:24pm

re: #147 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

A month or so ago, a couple of miles away, a guy was drunk and threatening to kill someone, and refused to come out of the house. I drove by the area several times because it was off a main street. The house was visible across a small park and I swear every police car in the area seemed to fill the streets. It must have been a slow crime day elsewhere.

In the end, many hours later, the guy was found passed out or asleep and claimed to have had no idea the house was surrounded most of the day.

Alcohol and Testosterone just don't mix well.

:0

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:14:56pm

Outta here for a while.

Have a great afternoon all.

I mostly stopped in to show you the billy goat babies.

151 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:15:22pm

re: #146 Gus

Por ejemplo:

True story.

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

152 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:15:56pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

That's funny.

153 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:16:36pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

Who have you seen spewing "hate or bigotry"?

Saying Mitt Romney's wife has "never worked a day in her life" may be an insult (possibly even an uncalled for insult), but it is hardly "spewing hate and bigotry" Killgore.

154 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:16:42pm

re: #152 Gus

That's funny.

lol

155 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:17:49pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

Well, I'm having a hard time remembering when we spoke about substantive issues.

156 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:19:53pm

re: #155 justaminute

Well, I'm having a hard time remembering when we spoke about substantive issues.

I don't recall any hate spewing neither. Unless disagreement with a current presidential candidate is hateful.

157 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:20:05pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

lol

You want issues? Yeah. Buy a plastic cup to "help defeat Obama." So Republicans can get rid of the EPA or FDA and allow moms and their children to drink from Bisphenol-A laden plastic cups. And a full array of other product safety regulations that protect the health of mothers and children. Plus the cup is no doubt "Made in China".

158 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:21:09pm

re: #146 Gus

Por ejemplo:

True story.

Nobody said Moms don't work at home. What was said was that their experience is not likely to qualify them as experts on national economics any more than, say, someone who voted for Herman Cain or Ron Paul would be.

159 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:21:43pm

Romney teams up with Obama to explain health care mandate
"We're insisting on personal responsibility."

160 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:21:48pm

Substantive issues?

I believe that Moms do work and can’t stand liberals who think that Moms don’t. To show my support for the hard work done by Moms everywhere and to help defeat elitist liberals like Barack Obama, I would like to purchase a “Moms Do Work” travel mug.

161 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:22:25pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

You're joking, right? Right?

If you're not, you must be smoking some primo shit...

162 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:22:45pm

re: #160 Gus

All my mugs cost less than $15.

163 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:24:13pm

re: #161 talon_262

You're joking, right? Right?

If you're not, you must be smoking some primo shit...

Can't you see? "Spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children" has been the problem all along. It's those damn liberals moonbats fault.

164 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:24:28pm

re: #162 jaunte

All my mugs cost less than $15.

That's because yours say "made in China".

165 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:24:56pm

re: #162 jaunte

All my mugs cost less than $15.

I think all of my collection of mugs outside of the ones that came with my stoneware set were gifts and freebies. My favorite was a gift from one of my grad students that sez "Queen of the Fucking Universe." Heh.

166 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:25:09pm

re: #164 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Well, Mexico, actually.

167 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:25:46pm

re: #163 Gus

Can't you see? "Spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children" has been the problem all along. It's those damn liberals moonbats fault.

CLASS WARFARE!!!11ty

168 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:25:52pm

Put another way:

• Rush Limbaugh is allowed to have his freedom of speech.

• Hilary Rosen spews hate and bigotry.

169 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:25:55pm

When you're a mega millionaire with a household staff it's insulting to pretend you do real work comparable to the typical stay at home mom. You don't have the same worries, concerns or stresses. Even the real legitimate obstacles Anne Romney faced like MS and cancer were defeated in large part due to the benefits of her social class and the amount of money available to throw at her medical treatment. I mean, she credits dressage for her recovery from MS, how many people can afford the fees, land, horses, tack, feed and vet bills required to get into dressage?

170 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:26:25pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

Yeah that would be stupid. But so far, the only people who are doing that are the conservative evangelicals.

171 jaunte  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:27:47pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

"My choice was to be a mother, and people should respect a woman's choice"

Interesting.

172 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:27:57pm

Ann and Mitt don't seem to have planned ahead very well. They have had 4 years to devote to softening their status in our lousy economic situation. They could have donated a considerable sum as well as getting out there working for the people who were unemployed and suffering. But no. It's not like her sons were little either. I have MS and believe me, she has had no voice in the MS community since she has MS too. And there is plenty of stuff she could have done.

173 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:27:57pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

But that would be self-censorship.

Maybe we should just suggest she's a whore. Then we be expanding people's horizons and adding to the larger discourse of society.

174 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:28:18pm

re: #170 blueraven

Yeah that would be stupid. But so far, the only people who are doing that are the conservatives evangelicals.

No, no, no, no. It's just been Hilary Rosen and the rest of the libruls spewing hate and bigotry.

//

175 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:30:24pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

When you're a mega millionaire with a household staff it's insulting to pretend you do real work comparable to the typical stay at home mom. You don't have the same worries, concerns or stresses. Even the real legitimate obstacles Anne Romney faced like MS and cancer were defeated in large part due to the benefits of her social class and the amount of money available to throw at her medical treatment. I mean, she credits dressage for her recovery from MS, how many people can afford the fees, land, horses, tack, feed and vet bills required to get into dressage?

How many people would be rich enough to know that "dressage" has to do with horse riding and not clothing?

176 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:30:46pm

re: #174 Gus

No, no, no, no. It's just been Hilary Rosen and the rest of the libruls spewing hate and bigotry.

//

Anti-Mormon Activist Warns 'We Cannot Afford a Mormon Experiment' with Romney

177 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:31:35pm

re: #176 The Ghost of a Flea

Anti-Mormon Activist Warns 'We Cannot Afford a Mormon Experiment' with Romney

Damn libruls... no wait...

//

178 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:31:41pm

re: #172 justaminute

Ann and Mitt don't seem to have planned ahead very well. They have had 4 years to devote to softening their status in our lousy economic situation. They could have donated a considerable sum as well as getting out there working for the people who were unemployed and suffering. But no. It's not like her sons were little either. I have MS and believe me, she has had no voice in the MS community since she has MS too. And there is plenty of stuff she could have done.

They have donated millions, to the church. The church needs all it can get so that it can send its young men, like Romney, to France and elsewhere for a couple of years.

179 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:32:53pm

re: #178 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

They have donated millions, to the church. The church needs all it can get so that it can send its young men, like Romney, to France and elsewhere for a couple of years.

And send millions to California to fight the civil rights of gays and lesbians.

180 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:33:21pm

re: #172 justaminute

{{jam}} I didn't know you had that.

181 aagcobb  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:34:02pm

re: #139 Obdicut

What the fuck?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'm guessing he is Mel's Archbishop.

182 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:37:40pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

How many people would be rich enough to know that "dressage" has to do with horse riding and not clothing?

Good point, but I would prefer to use the word educated instead of rich.

183 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:39:14pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

When you're a mega millionaire with a household staff it's insulting to pretend you do real work comparable to the typical stay at home mom. You don't have the same worries, concerns or stresses. Even the real legitimate obstacles Anne Romney faced like MS and cancer were defeated in large part due to the benefits of her social class and the amount of money available to throw at her medical treatment. I mean, she credits dressage for her recovery from MS, how many people can afford the fees, land, horses, tack, feed and vet bills required to get into dressage?

Job creation for horses and grooms!

184 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:40:34pm

re: #180 prairiefire

{{jam}} I didn't know you had that.

Ten years, but I've been one of the lucky ones. Mine has been mainly inactive these years. There are so many people with MS out there that can't afford the ridiculously high medicine. Or how insurance companies just makes our life more miserable. Ann could/should have at least had a voice for us with the insurance companies. She sold out so she could be first lady.

185 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:43:01pm

re: #184 justaminute

Ann could/should have at least had a voice for us with the insurance companies.

It's entirely possible that she isn't aware that you need one. This could be quite outside of her experience.

186 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:47:27pm

I would imagine her experience is largely within the LDS world. Still, she has had an opportunity to develop a more broad based voice in the last four years.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:57:53pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Hooray! I made so little money this year I don't owe taxes. God bless socialism!

You're a lucky ducky, you bastid.* I made somewhat under the poverty line (supplemented with financial aid loans), but still owe taxes due to my seasonal work as an editor, during which I was an 'independent contractor', meaning that I am now, apparently a small business owner--and I pay taxes on that small business.

There's some logic here escapes me, but whatever the hell. I'm not a broke graduate student. I'm a small business owner! I am America, and you can too!

*///

188 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:59:36pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Of course the Republicans are going to use this to their advantage. Perhaps not spewing hate and bigotry at Mitt's family, their social status and lifestyle choices and how they raise their children would help steer the conversation back towards substantive issues.

LOL, did you actually type that with a straight face?

Hmm...Let's see, there's Bryan Fischer, Pamela Geller, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and all the other nasty fundies, wingnut bloggers, and haters who constantly spew the vilest sort of hatred, bigotry, and racism. In the past week alone we've had Rodan exposed for claiming violent hate crimes against Muslims and approving genocide/ethnic cleansing, John Derbyshire and Robert Weissberg fired from the NRO for writing racist screeds, Cardinal George Pell and Mel Gibson showing thier anti-Semitism, and yet you point at Hilary Rosen?

This is one of the most ridiculous, intellectually dishonest paragraphs of utter bullshit I've ever seen you write. It's so absurd I can't even manage to summon any anger over it. You're turning into a parody of yourself.


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