On Killgore Trout’s Protest Against Racist Comments

My last statement on a right wing fairytale
LGF • Views: 36,874

Since wingnut blogger Patterico is bringing up, and distorting, an incident from years ago in his latest post, I thought I should write a short explanation of the facts about this incident, so I can point to it when people like Patterico (aka Patrick Frey, a Deputy District Attorney for LA County if you can believe it) start up again.

Here’s the post from Mr. Frey: Patterico’s Pontifications » Charles Johnson: An Unlikely Crusader Against Racist Comments.

Indeed, one of Johnson’s buddies (with whom he is still friendly) actually admitted planting racist comments at Hot Air in 2009. Specifically, in September 2009, trusted LGF Lieutenant Killgore Trout went over to Hot Air in the middle of the night to plant some racist comments.

Read the rest if you dare; it’s one of those strange wingnut fairy tales that has sprung up about me, often told when the tribal elders want to terrify the remaining members out of becoming a traitor, like little old me. The truth of it is irrelevant to people like Patterico and his audience; they’re already well aware of the facts, they just get off on the frisson of mean-spirited deception. So this isn’t for them, but for me to be able to say, “Here’s my final word, I have nothing more to say about this trivial incident, go look at this LGF article instead.”

First, you should understand the real reason Frey is bringing up this fairy tale again: he’s attempting to make excuses for the horrifying deluge of right wing racist comments we’ve been exposing on sites like foxnews.com and breitbart.com, and pretend that those comments are “planted” by people like LGF member Killgore Trout.

If you’re interested at all (and I’m so done with it I had to argue myself into writing this), here are the facts of what happened, that fateful night in September, 2009, the night when Killgore Trout got drunk and changed the course of blog history (not).

Our story begins with the election of Barack Obama, America’s first black President.

By 2009, right wing blog readers were getting so rabid in their hatred toward Obama that we began to be interested in what was happening in the comment sections of those blogs — because the overt racism had reached a level where the N word was actually becoming a frequent occurrence, and all kinds of other racial slurs were being posted as well.

One legendary night, Killgore Trout had a bit too much to drink (that’s what he says, anyway), and got fed up with the disgusting comments he saw being posted and not denounced or deleted at the right wing blog Hot Air.

Killgore had an account at Hot Air, and actually used to be a pretty regular participant in their discussions. So on this legendary evening, he decided to stage a protest against this overt racism. He posted a series of comments with the name he’s known for, “Killgore Trout,” using racial slurs and daring someone to call them out.

All of these comments were posted with the same name he uses at LGF to this day. He didn’t try to pretend he was someone else, and he made it overwhelmingly obvious why he was doing it. This was the last comment he posted on that historic night:

Ok, I’ll conclude my experiment….

Nobody’s minding the store. Hot Air, like so many other right wing blogs doesn’t care. Nobody’s minding the store. Absolutely nobody else chimed in and saif that they were uncomfortable with the Michelle Obama/wookie comparisons. Nobody cares and nobody finds this slightly unusual. This is the direction that conservatives have chosen. Good luck with your openly racist agenda.

/I’d still like a job that pays well enough to ignore this shit.

To sum up, nothing was ever planted by Killgore Trout. He used his own name and made it clear what he was doing and why. When Patrick Frey claims this was a case of “planting” comments, he’s being deliberately deceptive because he’s well aware of these facts.

And even more to the point — I didn’t put Killgore Trout up to it, or plan it with him. If he’d asked before getting all up in it, in fact, I would have advised against it.

It was kind of an obnoxious stunt, but it certainly got their attention. Hot Air tightened up their moderation a little after that, a tacit admission that KT had a point. The overt racism problem on right wing blogs was getting out of control.

Unfortunately, it’s only gotten worse since then. Much worse.

And people like Patrick Frey and many others in the right wing blogosphere are contributing to the problem by pretending it’s all a plot by liberals to make them look bad, instead of clearly speaking out against the problem of racism in right wing media.

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461 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:33:54pm

Fair enough. No objections from me.

2 EdDantes  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:34:07pm

I wasn't registered at the time but I was reading LGF in real time on that night. I thought the comments he posted were uncalled for and muddied the waters about what a website would tolerate. Then LGF got the reputation for posting comments that made other sites look racist and then quoting the comments. I have no idea if any of that is true but it is a practice that should not happen. And that's all I gotta say about that.

3 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:36:01pm

Kilgore's comments were a drop in the bucket. This is just a variation of kill the messenger.

4 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:39:04pm

re: #2 EdDantes

I wasn't registered at the time but I was reading LGF in real time on that night. I thought the comments he posted were uncalled for and muddied the waters about what a website would tolerate. Then LGF got the reputation for posting comments that made other sites look racist and then quoting the comments. I have no idea if any of that is true but it is a practice that should not happen. And that's all I gotta say about that.

I never quoted Killgore Trout's Hot Air comments.

5 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:42:32pm

In fact, I've deliberately refrained from quoting some racist comments on right wing blogs that were so over the top they seemed like they might be mobys.

The comments Killgore posted that night were OBVIOUSLY intended to draw attention to the racism that was being tolerated at Hot Air.

6 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:42:52pm

Facts:

1. Many Hot Air members used racially charged language directed against the First Lady of the United States of America.

2. Some Hot Air members frequently used racist language directed against the First Lady of the United States of America.

3. Subsequent to Killgore's protest Hot Air cleaned up its act and begin more diligent enforcement of their moderation policy.

Ironically enough, Killgore's "direct action" activism or "ironic protest" led to Hot Air cleaning up their act for the most part. One could say that Killgore was a one man "Occupy Hot Air" that evening.

Now if they can only have Allahpundit change his name which is offensive to Muslims.

7 EdDantes  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:43:34pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

I know that and I wasn't implying that you did. You even referred to it as a "stunt". It's just an example of how a website must be conscientious about what appears in their comments.

8 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:43:36pm

re: #3 Mich-again

Kilgore's comments were a drop in the bucket. This is just a variation of kill the messenger.

THe people claiming all the racist comments at right-wing blogs are planted by leftists don't even believe it themselves. The number is far too overwhelming, and there are places like Freep that easily demonstrate that racism is well-established on the right-wing-- as does the support for birtherism, the support for criminalization of interracial marriage, etc.

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:44:10pm

re: #6 Gus

Facts:

1. Many Hot Air members used racially charged language directed against the First Lady of the United States of America.

2. Some Hot Air members frequently used racist language directed against the First Lady of the United States of America.

3. Subsequent to Killgore's protest Hot Air cleaned up its act and begin more diligent enforcement of their moderation policy.

Ironically enough, Killgore's "direct action" activism or "ironic protest" led to Hot Air cleaning up their act for the most part. One could say that Killgore was a one man "Occupy Hot Air" that evening.

Now if they can only have Allahpundit change his name which is offensive to Muslims.

Allahpundit deleted his entire Blogspot blog, and all its comments.

10 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:44:53pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Allahpundit deleted his entire Blogspot blog, and all its comments.

He did? What's up with that?

I noticed he hasn't Tweeted since February.

11 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:45:31pm

re: #10 Gus

He did? What's up with that?

I noticed he hasn't Tweeted since February.

Years ago, when he started working for Michelle Malkin.

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:48:43pm

re: #6 Gus

Perhaps a slight disagreement: if there can be SpaceJesus and Gen. JC Christian, Patriot, why not Allahpundit?

13 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:48:47pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Years ago, when he started working for Michelle Malkin.

I can only imagine why.

14 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:49:30pm

re: #12 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Perhaps a slight disagreement: if there can be SpaceJesus and Gen. JC Christian, Patriot, why not Allahpundit?

I was being snarky. I'm not demanding anything.

15 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:49:34pm

re: #6 Gus

Ironically enough, ... One could say that Killgore was a one man "Occupy Hot Air" that evening.

Where's my pepper spray?

16 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:49:55pm

I was there, I recall giving KT some grief in comments here afterward for the stunt, Charles has the facts right.

17 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:50:22pm

re: #8 Obdicut

THe people claiming all the racist comments at right-wing blogs are planted by leftists don't even believe it themselves. The number is far too overwhelming, and there are places like Freep that easily demonstrate that racism is well-established on the right-wing-- as does the support for birtherism, the support for criminalization of interracial marriage, etc.

It's the kneejerk response to people shining a light on them, the whole "How do I know you didn't plant those to make us look bad!" Personally, I feel it falls apart as soon as you point on that the comments quoted either A) have several votes of approval on sites that support such or B) have been there for hours without disapproval or deletion.

18 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:52:30pm

re: #8 Obdicut

THe people claiming all the racist comments at right-wing blogs are planted by leftists don't even believe it themselves. The number is far too overwhelming, and there are places like Freep that easily demonstrate that racism is well-established on the right-wing-- as does the support for birtherism, the support for criminalization of interracial marriage, etc.

Not to mention - the racist comments are interlaced with anti-lib comments as well. The racism and the underlying political ideology are inseparable. You could just delete the explicitly racist words from some of the comments and they would essentially be identical to the vast majority of the comments.

19 Interesting Times  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:53:37pm
20 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:54:53pm

It's the most cunning bluff ever...Killgore was masquerading as Killgore, thereby deflecting attention from himself because nobody would ever think to use their own standard account as a sockpuppet!

21 Mattand  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:55:29pm

Have any other Lizardoids (Lizardites? Lizardos?) been accused of this nonsense?

22 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:56:40pm

re: #21 mattand

It's not really a serious accusation. Even the people making it don't believe it enough to expand their suspects list.

23 Mattand  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:57:05pm

re: #20 The Ghost of a Flea

Also, HITLER!!!!111!!one!!1

24 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:58:12pm

re: #15 Talking Point Detective

Where's my pepper spray?

Touché...

25 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:58:20pm

KT didn't do anything illegal. He threw out some obnoxious comments to see if they would be deleted, and he was upfront about what he was doing.

He wasn't, say, illegally obtaining ballots to expose the weaknesses in the voting system.

26 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:59:20pm

re: #8 Obdicut

THe people claiming all the racist comments at right-wing blogs are planted by leftists don't even believe it themselves. The number is far too overwhelming, and there are places like Freep that easily demonstrate that racism is well-established on the right-wing-- as does the support for birtherism, the support for criminalization of interracial marriage, etc.

Absolutely -- they're being deliberately dishonest.

27 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:00:58pm

re: #18 Talking Point Detective

Not to mention - the racist comments are interlaced with anti-lib comments as well. The racism and the underlying political ideology are inseparable. You could just delete the explicitly racist words from some of the comments and they would essentially be identical to the vast majority of the comments.

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

28 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:02:20pm

re: #20 The Ghost of a Flea

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

/Quote made in jest

29 Mattand  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:02:35pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

Yeah, but the problem is many of them aren't even trying. Or care to.

30 EdDantes  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:03:06pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Fair enough. No objections from me.

KT. You're OK in my book. :)

31 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:04:12pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

I think old-style (pre Nov 2008) Conservatives are going to have to find another adjective to describe themselves. Conservatism is lost to the Whacko's.

sorry DF.

32 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:05:03pm

re: #29 mattand

Yeah, but the problem is many of them aren't even trying. Or care to.

True, that's a problem. I hope its a solvable problem.

33 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:05:28pm

re: #31 ggt

I think old-style (pre Nov 2008) Conservatives are going to have to find another adjective to describe themselves. Conservatism is lost to the Whacko's.

sorry DF.

I refuse to accept that.

34 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:05:44pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

I refuse to accept that.

You and my husband.

35 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:05:55pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Absolutely -- they're being deliberately dishonest.

To be honest would be to acknowledge that you're right, something they're never going to do. Likewise, to be honest would be to be admit that they're allowing these comments because they either agree with them or because they'd lose web traffic by deleting the comments and banning repeat offenders.

36 Mattand  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:06:33pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

True, that's a problem. I hope its a solvable problem.

One solution is for the non-racists to grow a fucking backbone and call this shit for what it is. I won't be holding my breath.

37 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:07:14pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

I used to think I was conservative on some issue and liberal on others, but it now seems one cannot be "a conservative" without thinking as one is told by the pledge writers.

38 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:07:42pm

Sun setting here. About a half dozen kids are on the sidewalk by the backyard shouting "ribbit ribbit" and punching each other. I get the ribbits, not so sure about the punching.

39 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:11:05pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Sun setting here. About a half dozen kids are on the sidewalk by the backyard shouting "ribbit ribbit" and punching each other. I get the ribbits, not so sure about the punching.

Have you checked on your frogs? Maybe they have been struck by a cosmic ray or something and mutated?

40 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:11:38pm

re: #39 Learned Mother of Zion

Have you checked on your frogs? Maybe they have been struck by a cosmic ray or something and mutated?

Teenage Mutant Ninja Frogs.

//

41 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:12:21pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

True, that's a problem. I hope its a solvable problem.

Hey, it's your party, not mine. Do something about it.

What makes you think it's solvable? It's been gop strategy for over 40 years, and it's getting worse. They don't want to solve it. They just want people like you to think it's not bad enough to switch parties over.

42 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:12:48pm

re: #39 Learned Mother of Zion

Have you checked on your frogs? Maybe they have been struck by a cosmic ray or something and mutated?

I could actually see that happening.

frogs into kids.

There might be a fairy tale in there somewhere too. Any wiccans in the neighborhood?

:0

43 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:13:03pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

Maybe, but let's face it...when the Dixiecrats left the Dems for the GOP in the 60s, they slowly but surely became the core of what the current GOP is and stands for. Even as the GOP leadership and (most) GOP elected officials mind their manners and keep their traps shut publicly, the rank-and-file is thoroughly ate up with, at best, "soft" bigotry; at worst, there are many "conservatives" are full-on racists and bigots. The fact that few in the GOP leadership denounce this pervasive attitude in the party speaks volumes, which is just one of the reasons I'm without a party affiliation at the present time.

All "conservatives" may not be racists or bigots, but not enough of them are calling out and shunning the ones who are.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:13:29pm

re: #39 Learned Mother of Zion

Have you checked on your frogs? Maybe they have been struck by a cosmic ray or something and mutated?

You wouldn't know then. Maybe one of them ate KT and now sits at his computer, typing away, planting.../

45 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:14:23pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

Of course. There are racists in the Democratic party as well. Racism is proportional to ignorance. Neither party has a monopoly on that.

46 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:15:22pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Sun setting here. About a half dozen kids are on the sidewalk by the backyard shouting "ribbit ribbit" and punching each other. I get the ribbits, not so sure about the punching.

Your frogs are driving them mad, just like how your comments drove the people at Hot air to spout racist bile! Killgore's very existence induces insanity and racism!!1

/Daedalus Dorkus

47 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:15:34pm

re: #31 ggt

I think old-style (pre Nov 2008) Conservatives are going to have to find another adjective to describe themselves. Conservatism is lost to the Whacko's.

sorry DF.

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

True, that's a problem. I hope its a solvable problem.

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

I refuse to accept that.

re: #34 ggt

You and my husband.

At this point, barring some sort of epiphany or miracle, it's a bit like tilting at windmills if the critical mass isn't there in the party to sideline the bums.

48 Lidane  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:16:42pm

The original incident happened before my time here at LGF, so my only context for it is what I'm reading here.

That said, it's a ridiculous dodge to keep pointing at it now as a Magical Balance Fairy for all the racist derp that gets posted on the RW blogs daily. It's ridiculous to harp on a one-time thing by KT when there are thousands upon thousands of racist comments posted every day all over the right-wing blogosphere, and when racist writers like Derbyshire are getting fired for saying the exact same things that get posted all over the place.

49 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:17:31pm

re: #47 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

re: #34 ggt

At this point, barring some sort of epiphany or miracle, it's a bit like tilting at windmills if the critical mass isn't there in the party to sideline the bums.

What I don't understand is why the the sane Republicans are willing to associate themselves with the majority who are so obviously Whacko.

Loyality?

50 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:17:35pm

re: #43 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Maybe, but let's face it...when the Dixiecrats left the Dems for the GOP in the 60s, they slowly but surely became the core of what the current GOP is and stands for. Even as the GOP leadership and (most) GOP elected officials mind their manners and keep their traps shut publicly, the rank-and-file is thoroughly ate up with, at best, "soft" bigotry; at worst, there are many "conservatives" are full-on racists and bigots. The fact that few in the GOP leadership denounce this pervasive attitude in the party speaks volumes, which is just one of the reasons I'm without a party affiliation at the present time.

All "conservatives" may not be racists or bigots, but not enough of them are calling out and shunning the ones who are.

Since 1964 and Goldwater's opposition to the Civil Rights Act, the GOP has been figuring out new ways to exploit the resentment that whites, particularly in the South, have towards blacks and other minorities. It's reprehensible, as you noted, but it wins elections and the southern strategy won't end until that changes.

51 Mattand  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:17:38pm

re: #43 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

All "conservatives" may not be racists or bigots, but not enough of them are calling out and shunning the ones who are.

This times infinity.

52 compound_Idaho  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:18:18pm

Boston Marathon 9:30 AM ET. Is that too early to open a beer?

53 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:18:36pm

re: #48 Lidane

The original incident happened before my time here at LGF, so my only context for it is what I'm reading here.

That said, it's a ridiculous dodge to keep pointing at it now as a Magical Balance Fairy for all the racist derp that gets posted on the RW blogs daily. It's ridiculous to harp on a one-time thing by KT when there are thousands upon thousands of racist comments posted every day all over the right-wing blogosphere, and when racist writers like Derbyshire are getting fired for saying the exact same things that get posted all over the place.

It is physically impossible for KT to post all those racist comments all by himself at so many different blogs. That is why he had to spawn all those typing mutant frogs.

Science! Fiction!

54 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:19:15pm

re: #53 Learned Mother of Zion

It is physically impossible for KT to post all those racist comments all by himself at so many different blogs. That is why he had to spawn all those typing mutant frogs.

Science! Fiction!

ooh, I think you are right!

;)

55 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:19:47pm

re: #48 Lidane

The original incident happened before my time here at LGF, so my only context for it is what I'm reading here.

That said, it's a ridiculous dodge to keep pointing at it now as a Magical Balance Fairy for all the racist derp that gets posted on the RW blogs daily. It's ridiculous to harp on a one-time thing by KT when there are thousands upon thousands of racist comments posted every day all over the right-wing blogosphere, and when racist writers like Derbyshire are getting fired for saying the exact same things that get posted all over the place.

And you don't even have to go to free republic or some other far right site to see the garbage comments you reference. They're all over Yahoo, AOL, even HuffPo...yes, there are lots of teabagging racists at HuffPo as well.

56 Mattand  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:19:53pm

re: #49 ggt

What I don't understand is why the the sane Republicans are willing to associate themselves with the majority who are so obviously Whacko.

Loyality?

Naw, it's much easier: a desire to run the country so desperate that they will willingly embrace some of the worst this country has to offer.

57 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:20:29pm

The conservatives won't make an effort to purge the racists because they subscribe to the notion that they need all the help they can get to achieve their political goals and they aren't going to filter out supporters for any reason. That's why Ron Paul didn't object posing for photos with Don and Derek Black from Stormfront. That's why Robert Spencer didn't feel compelled to distance himself from European White Supremacists including Fjordman, that's why the John Birch Society is now mainstream in the GOP. That's why the early Tea Party rallies featured white nationalist bands, That's why CPAC 2012 featured a seminar with white nationalist speakers.

They're a big tent, big enough for anyone and they don't check ID's.

58 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:20:36pm

re: #45 Mich-again

Of course. There are racists in the Democratic party as well. Racism is proportional to ignorance. Neither party has a monopoly on that.

This is true, but the difference between the Democrats and the GOP on this is the Democrats have traditionally been more apt (at least since the 60s) to sideline the whackos and nuts from any real power.

59 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:21:03pm

re: #56 mattand

Naw, it's much easier: a desire to run the country so desperate that they will willingly embrace some of the worst this country has to offer.

Nah, I think it's fear of change.

It's been discussed before.

The World is Changing sooo fast. It's hard to accept.

60 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:21:25pm

re: #58 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

This is true, but the difference between the Democrats and the GOP on this is the Democrats have traditionally been more apt (at least since the 60s) to sideline the whackos and nuts from any real power.

William F. Buckley died and the GOP (in many ways) with it.

61 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:22:18pm

re: #58 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

This is true, but the difference between the Democrats and the GOP on this is the Democrats have traditionally been more apt (at least since the 60s) to sideline the whackos and nuts from any real power.

It took Mondale getting his ass handed to him in '80 for the whackos to finally be consigned to the Cursed Earth.

62 EdDantes  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:22:28pm

It's never too early to open a beer.

63 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:23:40pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

It took Mondale getting his ass handed to him in '80 for the whackos to finally be consigned to the Cursed Earth.

Well, that's true, but with the departure of the Dixiecrats for the GOP, that had been a long time coming.

64 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:25:52pm

Frey of course makes a poor argument. His attempt is to discredit Charles's exposure of racist comments at Breitbart.com, Fox News and Fox Nation. The underlying chatter to all this has been the conspiracy theory that KT has been planting these comments which are associated with members of Disqus with thousands of comments at other right leaning websites. This conspiracy theory was also expanded to include other members of LGF including myself.

Most of what Frey presents is poorly structured and presented. He does not present the facts in any way regarding KT's protest at Hot Air who at the time was also a known member of Hot Air. In fact if I remember correctly people at Hot Air knew exactly what was going on within hours. The rest of Frey's post concentrates on his previous alliance with Charles and something about Glenn Greenwald. The majority of course is riddled with disassociated Tweets to Charles most of which he authored.

Even if one were to focus solely on what KT did the fact that the overwhelmingly racist comments that Charles has exposed remains and are indeed genuine and continue to this day. Frey has proven nothing to that end only to deflect and he like many refuse to take responsibility for fomenting an environment that attracts this type of behavior.

65 Lidane  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:26:28pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

It took Mondale getting his ass handed to him in '80 for the whackos to finally be consigned to the Cursed Earth.

Yeah, this. After Mondale got humiliated on a national scale, the Dems spent the next eight years working to jettison the moonbats and hippies from the nearest airlock.

It's no accident that the only two Democrats to win since Mondale's humiliation have been centrists. And it's also no accident that those same two centrists have been painted as Marxist extremists by an increasingly shrill and obsessed right wing.

66 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:27:04pm

re: #60 ggt

William F. Buckley died and the GOP (in many ways) with it.

As smart and learned as Buckley was, he was still very flawed.

67 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:27:29pm

re: #66 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

As smart and learned as Buckley was, he was still very flawed.

he was what he was.

68 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:29:38pm

re: #67 ggt

he was what he was.

And a product of his time, but even he learned to temper any bigoted proclivities over time, simply because either he wanted to or needed to.

69 steve_davis  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:30:31pm

Kilgore types much better drunk than I do! I just tend to go off on vikings and babylonian whores (if you don't remember, it's best that it stay that way, believe me).

70 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:30:52pm

re: #65 Lidane

Yeah, this. After Mondale got humiliated on a national scale, the Dems spent the next eight years working to jettison the moonbats and hippies from the nearest airlock.

It's no accident that the only two Democrats to win since Mondale have been centrists. And it's also no accident that those same two centrists have been painted as Marxist extremists by an increasingly shrill and obsessed right wing.

Which is best contrasted with the first post-Mondale candidate who tried to call upon the whackos and the fringe for support, namely John "F'n" Kerry, who was very much like Romney in that he played to the fringe in the primaries, then tried to convince folks in the general that he didn't really believe anything he'd said and that he was a truly "moderate" candidate. Didn't work out for him at all, as I don't expect it to work for Romney.

71 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:32:18pm

re: #69 steve_davis

Kilgore types much better drunk than I do! I just tend to go off on vikings and babylonian whores (if you don't remember, it's best that it stay that way, believe me).

FTFY

72 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:32:28pm

I'm off,

bbl

73 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:35:05pm

re: #68 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

And a product of his time, but even he learned to temper any bigoted proclivities over time, simply because either he wanted to or needed to.

Well, he honestly wanted to learn and be a good person. He wasn't a man seeking mostly to vent his hates, he was someone who wanted to accomplish something. That something was at first the defeat of Communism; other goals came up over time. The great goal William F. Buckley lived to see in 1991, after that the other goals took center stage.

74 danhenry1  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:35:46pm

Just was walking my dog out here. I'm a liberal in Lynchburg. One of the settling ponds, I swear, was hopping with what I figure to be 8 or 10 inch bright green 'bullfrogs'?.. Didn't know what them fuckers was all about but , 'Jiggs', my dog near pissed himself trying to track em down till one of the jumped out of the water and jumped on hs back. He's a foot tall Shitty Poo. And near gave me a leash burn when he swatted outta that dank red water. Anyone ever seen these frogs?
Trust me, it happened. I'm from Boston and don't normally chat this way.

75 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:36:42pm

Back in the day when I was a Freeper, they were very diligent in "zotting" comments and deleting posts and accounts by people who, say, defended evolution and stuff.

So they totally knew how to disappear stuff they didn't like.

76 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:37:03pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

Which is best contrasted with the first post-Mondale candidate who tried to call upon the whackos and the fringe for support, namely John "F'n" Kerry, who was very much like Romney in that he played to the fringe in the primaries, then tried to convince folks in the general that he didn't really believe anything he'd said and that he was a truly "moderate" candidate. Didn't work out for him at all, as I don't expect it to work for Romney.

True, but as much as the left hated W, he never had to prove that he was a real American, a real Christian, etc. So Obama still has hurdles, some of them worse than 4 years ago.

The right isn't motivated by Romney, they're motivated by Obama hatred--they'd show up to vote for a ham sandwich if it were the GOP nominee. One clue: there was a substantial enthusiasm gap between the GOP and Dems in 2008, in the Dems' favor. That gap is gone now, indeed enthusiasm has been stronger on the right for quite a while.

77 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:37:41pm

re: #74 danhenry1

Just was walking my dog out here. I'm a liberal in Lynchburg. One of the settling ponds, I swear, was hopping with what I figure to be 8 or 10 inch bright green 'bullfrogs'?.. Didn't know what them fuckers was all about but , 'Jiggs', my dog near pissed himself trying to track em down till one of the jumped out of the water and jumped on hs back. He's a foot tall Shitty Poo. And near gave me a leash burn when he swatted outta that dank red water. Anyone ever seen these frogs?
Trust me, it happened. I'm from Boston and don't normally chat this way.

Those frogs? I'm not on the East Coast.

I was listening to the frogs out here on the West Coast last night, but I didn't stick around to try and spot one. Had a band auction to go to .

78 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:39:49pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

The analogy of John F'in Kerry is pretty good. It's what happens to a party when they approach the primaries in an angry mood with retribution for the past being more of a priority than the plan going forward. That environment forces the candidates to appease the extremists to win the primaries, which only undermines them in the general election.

79 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:43:47pm

re: #78 Mich-again

The analogy of John F'in Kerry is pretty good. It's what happens to a party when they approach the primaries in an angry mood with retribution for the past being more of a priority than the plan going forward. That environment forces the candidates to appease the extremists to win the primaries, which only undermines them in the general election.

Butthurt is an ugly emotion.

80 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:50:01pm

Guess who:

CIVIL RICO (RACKETEERING INFLUENCED CORRUPT ORGANIZATION) COMPLAINT FILED AGAINST OBAMA FOR AMERICA, OBAMA AND SEVERAL OTHER PARTIES

81 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:50:56pm

re: #80 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Guess who:

Dimbart.com?

82 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:51:26pm

Orly. WND...

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:51:41pm

re: #82 Gus

ORLY

84 danhenry1  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:51:54pm

Reference my green frogs. Has anyone paid any attention to comments on te Foxnews site in reference to President Obama, calling for a vigorous investigation of the Secret Service? If you really read some of that awful stuff you would expect the writers and folks at Fox News, to be getting some inquiries about now. Unbelievably digraceful.

85 Lidane  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:53:14pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

John Kerry's entire campaign was a laundry list of shitty ideas. Ugh.

86 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:53:21pm

re: #76 palomino

The right isn't motivated by Romney, they're motivated by Obama hatred--they'd show up to vote for a ham sandwich if it were the GOP nominee.

True. To really upset a conservative these days, point out how Obama's presidency has practically turned out to be GWB's 3rd term. Things are more the same than they are different.

The GOP likes to compare the current economy and deficit to an alternative utopian reality that is only a figment of their imagination. But had McCain /Palin won in 2008, we'd be just about exactly in the same spot we are right now in regard to the economy. Actually things would be much worse now had they sat back and watched the auto industry implode in 2009.

87 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:53:33pm

re: #82 Gus

Orly. WND...

It'll be laughed out of court, and she should be disbarred for filing it.

88 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:54:21pm

re: #83 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

ORLY

...

THIS IS IT! THE SMOKING GUN WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR ! IMPEACH OBAMA NOW!

89 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:54:47pm

re: #80 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Oh I'll take a guess.. could it be .. SHRIEKING HARPY?

90 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:55:00pm

re: #76 palomino

True, but as much as the left hated W, he never had to prove that he was a real American, a real Christian, etc. So Obama still has hurdles, some of them worse than 4 years ago.

The right isn't motivated by Romney, they're motivated by Obama hatred--they'd show up to vote for a ham sandwich if it were the GOP nominee. One clue: there was a substantial enthusiasm gap between the GOP and Dems in 2008, in the Dems' favor. That gap is gone now, indeed enthusiasm has been stronger on the right for quite a while.

All true, but whether that enthusiasm holds now that Romney is the nominee, rather than just somebody the base liked to take turns kicking, remains to be seen. And hatred amongst the base does not an election win, certainly if the base can't convince independent voters that their hatred is anything but partisan.

91 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:55:15pm

re: #85 Lidane

John Kerry's entire campaign was a laundry list of shitty ideas. Ugh.

And a lot of the same sort of tone-deafness that plagues Romney.

92 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:56:30pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

It'll be laughed out of court, and she should be disbarred for filing it.

That she hasn't been disbarred yet still confuses the total fuck out of me. She's been chewed out by judges, been slapped with fines, but they've yet to just up and disbar her.

93 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:00:09pm

KT is one of my favorite Lizards ...

94 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:01:30pm

re: #92 Targetpractice

That she hasn't been disbarred yet still confuses the total fuck out of me. She's been chewed out by judges, been slapped with fines, but they've yet to just up and disbar her.

I think part of the reason is that she keeps filing in different jurisdictions, IIRC; it's up to individual states (and the feds for federal courts, AFAIK) to censure and disbar bad lawyers.

95 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:02:16pm

re: #89 Mich-again

Oh I'll take a guess.. could it be .. SHRIEKING HARPY?

Close.

96 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:02:46pm

re: #94 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

I think part of the reason is that she keeps filing in different jurisdictions, IIRC; it's up to the states (and the feds for federal courts, AFAIK) to censure and disbar bad lawyers.

Who's courts are going to have to deal with her now?

97 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:03:47pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

Who's courts are going to have to deal with her now?

Mississippi, fresh off yet another denied lawsuit, this time in Indiana.

98 Varek Raith  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:07:21pm

re: #82 Gus

Orly. WND...

O'rly?

99 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:08:15pm

re: #98 Varek Raith

O'rly?

Image: orly-paul.jpg

100 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:08:19pm

re: #97 Targetpractice

Mississippi, fresh off yet another denied lawsuit, this time in Indiana.

She may be crazy, but apparently not stupid; she knows what she has to do to keep her license.

101 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:09:30pm
102 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:09:42pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Come to think of it: How has she not been disbarred yet?

103 Varek Raith  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:10:00pm
104 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:15:07pm

re: #102 ProGunLiberal

Come to think of it: How has she not been disbarred yet?

According to others here. she hasn't filed enough shit in one place to motive the Bar Association there to bring the hammer down. Hopefully, this case will do the trick.

105 Varek Raith  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:15:35pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

According to others here. she hasn't filed enough shit in one place to motive the Bar Association there to bring the hammer down. Hopefully, this case will do the trick.

Jack Thompson on the other hand....
XD

106 Lidane  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:19:37pm

re: #105 Varek Raith

Jack Thompson on the other hand...
XD

He was stupid enough to make it personal with the Florida State Bar. He kept trolling them by filing stupid, truly bizarre shit over and over and over, including challenges to their constitutionality and right to exist at all.

The Florida Supreme Court did everyone a favor when they finally permanently disbarred him.

107 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:22:54pm

re: #86 Mich-again

True. To really upset a conservative these days, point out how Obama's presidency has practically turned out to be GWB's 3rd term. Things are more the same than they are different.

The GOP likes to compare the current economy and deficit to an alternative utopian reality that is only a figment of their imagination. But had McCain /Palin won in 2008, we'd be just about exactly in the same spot we are right now in regard to the economy. Actually things would be much worse now had they sat back and watched the auto industry implode in 2009.

You put your finger right on one of the things that galls me most: the notion that Obama has done a bunch of radical things that neither McCain nor Hillary would have contemplated had they won the race. None of them were prepared to sit back, tea party style, and watch our largest banks and manufacturers just collapse. Both Bush and Cheney agreed. When that many people of that many political stripes agree, there's a good reason--the alternative is total disaster.

And yet we hear all the time that Obama is "the most radical president we've ever had" and that he doesn't have American values, etc. This image of Obama as a dangerous far left winger is a mass delusion, not based in a world of fact in any way.

108 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:25:00pm

I think a main driver of economic growth, or lack thereof, is the price of oil. Like it or not, oil and gasoline are the lifeblood of our economy. The two major factors that had been pushing prices upward have been increased demand both domestic and from developing nations, and threats to the oil supply from the ME if there were to be American or Israeli military action against Iran.

The GOP knows the price of gasoline is very near and dear to all American consumers and their chances to defeat Obama are much better if the prices stay high or even increase. I look for the GOP strategy to include making loud threats of imminent military action against Iran if and when the prices start falling due to either a lack of growth in demand or intelligence that indicates Iran is not as close to having nukes as has been advertised.

I believe the GOP is more concerned with the next election than they are with sustaining our economic recovery. So when Mommygate starts to die down and the next Mitt gaffe happens, they'll kick in with the Bomb Iran message..

109 Kragar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:26:56pm

Going thru some books I had backshelved while cleaning out the house, started rereading David Brin's Uplift series.

110 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:26:59pm

Life During Wartime

111 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:34:22pm

I'd also like to add to the account, that shortly after KT's little escapade one of the offenders from over there who's hackles were raised by the whole affair, who also happened to have an account on LGF (though did not normally post), tried to post something similar here, over and over one night.

The difference was that LGF had monitors, and they deleted those comments. Those threads ended up looking like swiss cheese, but that's the way it is.

The point is that ownership of anything brings responsibility, whether it be land, buildings, cars, oxen, or even ... a URL and website on the internet.

112 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:34:34pm

re: #90 Targetpractice

All true, but whether that enthusiasm holds now that Romney is the nominee, rather than just somebody the base liked to take turns kicking, remains to be seen. And hatred amongst the base does not an election win, certainly if the base can't convince independent voters that their hatred is anything but partisan.

I hope you're right. What you describe held true in 2008. But I get the sense that a lot of Republicans and right-leaning independents who sat out 2008 will vote this time, and they'll be voting against Obama more than anything else.

Additionally the economy is improving slowly, maybe too slowly for Obama to have the big advantage among independents he had in 2008. Up to now Obama seems to have the advantage over Romney, but he's not the shoo-in he would have been with a 5.5% unemployment rate.

113 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:35:13pm

re: #107 palomino

This image of Obama as a dangerous far left winger is a mass delusion, not based in a world of fact in any way.

I used to complain about how the Left ridiculed the GWB administration for the war in Iraq for the same reason. They liked to compare the way things actually turned out to some alternative Utopian reality they dreamt up in hindsight instead of what would have been the reality had we not taken that course. Saddam is still in power, Uday and Qusay are waiting in the wings, Oil for food is still giving them cash flow from crooked UN bureaucrats, and we're still wasting time enforcing a no-fly zone. Start your alternative reality there.

The GOP is using the same tactic now. Comparing what did happen to their alternative Utopian reality. And then campaigning based on that.

114 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:35:43pm

re: #109 Kragar

Going thru some books I had backshelved while cleaning out the house, started rereading David Brin's Uplift series.

Seriously good stuff but I've never found a stinker by him. The whole series is just chock-a-block full of fun things, especially the second three books set on the hidden world with the species supposed to be extinct for their crimes.

I need to reread "Earth" again and see how he's doing on his predictions. Scary how much he nailed in that one.

He remains one of the more sane self-identifying Libertarians I know of.

115 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:39:06pm

And now there's an epic right wing pile-on going on, on Twitter. Apparently I've been beaten down, crushed, and humiliated beyond belief by Patterico.

What a bunch of idiots.

116 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:41:07pm

re: #113 Mich-again

I used to complain about how the Left ridiculed the GWB administration for the war in Iraq for the same reason. They liked to compare the way things actually turned out to some alternative Utopian reality they dreamt up in hindsight instead of what would have been the reality had we not taken that course. Saddam is still in power, Uday and Qusay are waiting in the wings, Oil for food is still giving them cash flow from crooked UN bureaucrats, and we're still wasting time enforcing a no-fly zone. Start your alternative reality there.

The GOP is using the same tactic now. Comparing what did happen to their alternative Utopian reality. And then campaigning based on that.

Sure, and the far left called Bush a warmonger. But those same people are calling Obama a warmonger now. OTOH, when Bush was expanding the size of the fed. govt., virtually no one was calling him a socialist.

117 Kragar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:41:32pm

re: #114 William Barnett-Lewis

Seriously good stuff but I've never found a stinker by him. The whole series is just chock-a-block full of fun things, especially the second three books set on the hidden world with the species supposed to be extinct for their crimes.

I need to reread "Earth" again and see how he's doing on his predictions. Scary how much he nailed in that one.

He remains one of the more sane self-identifying Libertarians I know of.

About halfway done with "Startide Rising", then I'm going to hit the trilogy. I can't find "Uplift War" so I had to order a copy.

118 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:41:33pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

And now there's an epic right wing pile-on going on, on Twitter. Apparently I've been beaten down, crushed, and humiliated beyond belief by Patterico.

What a bunch of idiots.

Delusional. If one of them posts a reply to something you put up, all his buddies rush in to declare him the winner of the fight, even if your reply smacks him silly. They can't tolerate even the idea that you might have a point.

119 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:42:26pm

re: #112 palomino

I hope you're right. What you describe held true in 2008. But I get the sense that a lot of Republicans and right-leaning independents who sat out 2008 will vote this time, and they'll be voting against Obama more than anything else.

I think it remains to be seen. As we've seen already with the freepers, not all of the base is going to accept Romney. And while many will be driven to the polls by their hatred of Obama, others will likely decide that Romney's an "Obama-lite" that they'd rather not vote for and either choose to "punish" the party by staying home or voting third party.

Additionally the economy is improving slowly, maybe too slowly for Obama to have the big advantage among independents he had in 2008. Up to now Obama seems to have the advantage over Romney, but he's not the shoo-in he would have been with a 5.5% unemployment rate.

I think it comes down to which narrative the independents buy easier: The GOP one that says that Obama's policies are why the recovery's so slow or the Obama one that says the GOP acting like petulant children is why nothing's getting done.

120 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:46:57pm

re: #112 palomino

I hope you're right. What you describe held true in 2008. But I get the sense that a lot of Republicans and right-leaning independents who sat out 2008 will vote this time, and they'll be voting against Obama more than anything else.

My impression has been that the McCain-Palin ticket did a decent turnout of traditional conservatives, many of whom responded to McCain's history of service, and a few of the more religious ones who knew Palin was one of their own.

Yet Obama raised a huge wave of young voters, which easily pushed him over the edge in some of the traditionally more tightly contested states.

I'll also note, and this is on topic, that West Virginia voted Republican for President in 2008, a phenomenon that I contend has much to do with Obama being black.

121 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:46:59pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Back in the day when Spencer and Gellar were attacking you and LGF , I posted this same link. It applies here too..

The Penalty of Leadership...

...When a man’s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work is mediocre, he will be left severely alone—if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongue a-wagging.

122 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:47:03pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

And now there's an epic right wing pile-on going on, on Twitter. Apparently I've been beaten down, crushed, and humiliated beyond belief by Patterico.

What a bunch of idiots.

It's what they do. This issue is a good example.

They can always declare victory because it doesn't matter how logical your point is or what evidence you provide. They have no interest in a serious discussion. None. Nada. Zilch. Niente. Bupkis.

123 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:47:29pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

I think it remains to be seen. As we've seen already with the freepers, not all of the base is going to accept Romney. And while many will be driven to the polls by their hatred of Obama, others will likely decide that Romney's an "Obama-lite" that they'd rather not vote for and either choose to "punish" the party by staying home or voting third party.

I think it comes down to which narrative the independents buy easier: The GOP one that says that Obama's policies are why the recovery's so slow or the Obama one that says the GOP acting like petulant children is why nothing's getting done.

There are a lot of screaming gun nuts who will NOT vote for mittens because he signed that assault weapon ban (Bad law, but that's a separate issue). I'm guessing many of them (and more than a few I know consider the NRA to be too liberal (!!!)) will stay at home unless Crazy Uncle Paul mounts a third party "last hurrah!".

124 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:47:39pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Quite impressive that he could do all that without even reading Killgore's original comments.

125 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:52:28pm

re: #112 palomino

But I get the sense that a lot of Republicans and right-leaning independents who sat out 2008 will vote this time, and they'll be voting against Obama more than anything else.

I didn't get the sense that many of them sat on the sidelines last election, or that even if any did, there's anything about this election that would draw them in. The enthusiasm gap has closed, and Romney has historically low favorability ratings for a Republican candidate at this point in the election cycle.

We're not talking about the active base here, those who are more driven by hatred of Obama. If any Republicans sat on the sidelines last election, it was probably the hardcore extremists who felt that McCain was too moderate for them. They might be just as likely to not vote for Romney.

I'm a born pessimist, so I'm not going to be counting any chickens, but I don't see numbers that back up your perspective. Do you have a link or something?

126 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:53:30pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Or so Patterico would like to believe!
What a meatball!

127 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:55:54pm

And the last playthrough of Fallout 3 on the Laptop is completed. This one has been going on, on and off, since I asked input from some of you on the name.

And with this computer being old, I will not be playing Fallout 3 again until I get a new computer. I will likely use a different Microsoft Name too, so I can get the achievements all over again. :D

128 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:56:41pm

re: #125 Talking Point Detective

I feel about Romney now just like I did in 2008 when he was running against McCain: totally turned off by his shallowness.

Back in 2008 I wrote comments about how insincere Romney came off to me. In 4 years nothing has changed.

129 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:57:48pm
130 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:59:00pm

re: #129 MikeySDCA

I remembered Lincoln.

April 15th is sort of a bad day in History, isn't it?

131 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:59:51pm

Good night, all.

132 Mocking Jay  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:00:37pm

re: #130 ProGunLiberal

I remembered Lincoln.

April 15th is sort of a bad day in History, isn't it?

Not if you file for an extension.

/

133 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:01:44pm

re: #130 ProGunLiberal

I remembered Lincoln.

April 15th is sort of a bad day in History, isn't it?

Try April 19th. It's my sister's birthday and she can list off all the bad things that happened that day.

134 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:02:38pm

Regarding the 2008 election, I think this reaction (posted by an apparent long goner) was typical of many conservatives:

re: #564 Biff

Bottom line is GOP nominated the wrong guy. Mitt was the right man (true Washington outsider), with the right approach (economic). The NYT sold McCain to NH, trashed Romney, and that was that. It's been up hill since then.

I think Sarah is great, but Mitt needed to be on this ticket.

Because so many Republicans loved Romney in the primaries and he ran such a great campaign? Get real.

I don't like Romney. He strikes me as a flip-flopping phony and I don't trust him. He was never able to explain economics to my satisfaction, and he is as elitist as Obama. I would have voted third-party if Romney were the nominee. And I'm basically your independent voter - McCain is the reason I am voting Republican for President and all federal offices this year.

135 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:03:08pm

re: #129 MikeySDCA

The only hope for a sane, constructive postwar policy died with Lincoln.

That might be the first great American conspiracy theory.. Why did JWB, a famous British actor assassinate President Lincoln? As I remember the CT, Lincoln was about to default on the USA's civil war debt to England so the "bankers" back home got Booth to kill him off first.

136 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:05:02pm

re: #132 Oblivious Troll

Very fucking funny. April 15th has a history of bad things. Other ones are:

1395 – Tokhtamysh–Timur war: Battle of the Terek River: Timur defeats Tokhtamysh of the Golden Horde at the Volga. The Golden Horde capital city, Sarai, is razed to the ground and Timur installs a puppet ruler on the Golden Horde throne. Tokhtamysh escapes to Lithuania.

1715 – Pocotaligo Massacre triggers the start of the Yamasee War in colonial South Carolina.

1927 – The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, the most destructive river flood in U.S. history, begins.

1941 – In the Belfast Blitz, two-hundred bombers of the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) attack Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom killing one thousand people.

1969 – The EC-121 shootdown incident: North Korea shoots down a United States Navy aircraft over the Sea of Japan, killing all 31 on board.

1970 – During the Cambodian Civil War, massacres of the Vietnamese minority results in 800 bodies flowing down the Mekong River into South Vietnam.

1979 – A disastrous earthquake (of M 7.1) occurs on Montenegro coast.

1989 – Hillsborough disaster: A human crush occurs at Hillsborough Stadium, home of Sheffield Wednesday, in the FA Cup Semi Final, resulting in the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans.

re: #133 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oh yes, I can remember a few off the top of my head.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:05:38pm

There's no reason for this to be so funny, but one of the NANO forums people has just commented that part of one of his NANO novels revolved around a headline reading "Vikings Sack San Marino" instead of "Vikings Sack Dan Marino".

138 Kragar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:06:13pm

re: #130 ProGunLiberal

I remembered Lincoln.

April 15th is sort of a bad day in History, isn't it?

Good things:
1452 – Leonardo da Vinci was born
1783 – Preliminary articles of peace ending the American Revolutionary War (or American War of Independence) are ratified.
1923 – Insulin becomes generally available for use by people with diabetes.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:06:21pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

There's no reason for this to be so funny, but one of the NANO forums people has just commented that part of one of his NANO novels revolved around a headline reading "Vikings Sack San Marino" instead of "Vikings Sack Dan Marino".

And this just makes me laugh, for some reason. Even though I don't know who Dan Marino is.

140 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:06:31pm

re: #129 MikeySDCA

OT: Did anyone, anywhere notice that today is the 147th anniversary of the death of Abraham Lincoln? For the nation as a whole, it was a great loss. For the South it was a catastrophe whose effects are still felt. The only hope for a sane, constructive postwar policy died with Lincoln. Amid the Titanic hoo-ha, I hope there was a mourning which I missed.

I guess you didn't get the memo, Lincoln was a "race traitor" who started the "real decline" of this country by overstepping his constitutional authority in attempting to preserve the union thru war, while also destroying almost all concept of "States Rights" towards self-determination, blah, blah, blah...

You can read all about it over at Free republic if you need more information... :p

///

141 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:07:45pm

re: #136 ProGunLiberal

1927 – The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, the most destructive river flood in U.S. history, begins.

Speaking of which, this is an American History must-read:
Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and How It Changed America

142 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:08:50pm

re: #141 jaunte

I'm confident Katrina will have a similar impact on history as well.

143 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:09:26pm

I see the general media and many blog sites are having the usual problems with the latest little bit of research on climate.

Some French scientists calculated that between 2000 and 2008 a certain region of the Himalayas called the Karakorum.

Two general science-fails happening in the media-verse.

(1) universalizing the report to the entire Himalayan region (which is quite large);
(2) acting surprised that some glaciers will grow over some periods of time, which has never been argued against by any actual climate science.

And of course, the ignorance-industry (I refuse to call them "skeptics") slurp it all in and belch it back out.

144 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:10:40pm

re: #143 freetoken

pimf "Some French scientists calculated that between 2000 and 2008 a certain region of the Himalayas called the Karakorum have not lost ice in their glaciers."

145 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:11:24pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

And this just makes me laugh, for some reason. Even though I don't know who Dan Marino is.

A famous ex-quarterback of a famous football team (Miami Dolphins), so yes, the "Vikings (another famous football team)" have sacked him more than once.

146 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:12:21pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings DID take San Marino though.

147 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:12:31pm

re: #135 Mich-again

That might be the first great American conspiracy theory.. Why did JWB, a famous British actor assassinate President Lincoln? As I remember the CT, Lincoln was about to default on the USA's civil war debt to England so the "bankers" back home got Booth to kill him off first.

Right. Except that he was American (his parents were British, but so were Benjamin Franklin's).

148 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:16:24pm

re: #129 MikeySDCA

For the South it was a catastrophe whose effects are still felt.

This is something so few, especially given all the [censored] neo-confederates out there, understand. Had Lincoln lived out his second term, things would have been profoundly different. I'm not always convinced that things would have inherently been better, but even the chance for better died with Lincoln that night.

149 Flavia  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:16:55pm

re: #21 mattand

Have any other Lizardoids (Lizardites? Lizardos?) been accused of this nonsense?

One of my doctors is named "Lizardo." He smiled and nodded when I asked him, "Really?", but went on to remark that it was usually the husbands of his patients who recognize it - I was [one of?] the only woman who caught it.

150 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:18:54pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

And this just makes me laugh, for some reason. Even though I don't know who Dan Marino is.

He was probably the best Quarterback in the NFL since the start of the Superbowl who never won a Superbowl. Hard record to own...

151 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:19:05pm

re: #148 William Barnett-Lewis

I'm of the opinion, looking back on history, that Charles Sumner was correct regarding the South, and that, save the part on slavery, Sumner is still correct. The South continues to be backwards and uncivilized, especially in its dealings with minority populations.

152 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:22:20pm

re: #142 ProGunLiberal

I'm confident Katrina will have a similar impact on history as well.

Possibly but in 1927, the idea that you could be so totally betrayed by Washington like that was inconceivable. When Katrina happened? Not so much...

Katrina only re-enforced the belief that the GOP hated America and, especially, hard working Americans. It did not invent something new.

153 Mocking Jay  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:23:09pm
KaleStorm
1 hour ago (11:17 PM)
The agents at the center of the scandal have been relieved on duty.


riptaker90
Yes, they sure were relieved on duty

Courtesy of HuffPo commentators.

154 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:24:22pm

re: #152 William Barnett-Lewis

It did do something new. It showed that the US can be rendered powerless if a sufficiently strong natural disaster occurs.

Bush really couldn't have handled Katrina any better as a result of the Posse Comitatus Act. Another fucking stupid thing the South got out of the Civil War

155 Tsuga  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:25:44pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

Late to the game here. Interesting discussion.

Anyway, that presidential race actually happened in 1984. 1980 was Carter vs. Reagan.

156 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:31:12pm

re: #155 Tsuga

Late to the game here. Interesting discussion.

Anyway, that presidential race actually happened in 1984. 1980 was Carter vs. Reagan.

True, I was having one of those brainfart moments.

157 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:33:50pm

re: #120 freetoken

My impression has been that the McCain-Palin ticket did a decent turnout of traditional conservatives, many of whom responded to McCain's history of service, and a few of the more religious ones who knew Palin was one of their own.

Yet Obama raised a huge wave of young voters, which easily pushed him over the edge in some of the traditionally more tightly contested states.

I'll also note, and this is on topic, that West Virginia voted Republican for President in 2008, a phenomenon that I contend has much to do with Obama being black.

In Alabama, John Kerry got 20% of the white vote in 2004. In 2008, when Obama did better across the country with nearly every group of voter, he got only 9% of the white vote in AL. I would also argue that had something to do with him being black.

158 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:40:27pm

re: #157 palomino

There are many interesting statistics from the 2008 election.

Those who have been around here long enough and also remember my postings in 2008 will know that I was not an Obama supporter. I commented that I had made up my mind to not vote for the "lesser of two evils" and if I didn't like any of the candidates I just wouldn't vote (for President). Which is exactly what I did - skipped the part of the ballot that was for US President.

However, it also became clear to me in 2008 that our nation was experiencing an outpouring of racist ugliness I had not seen before in my adult life. That's when I changed my avatar. Since then I've found myself in the position of defending President Obama, about whom I have lukewarm feelings at best, simply because I think the ugliness-orgy in which certain segments of our society have been engaging is probably the worst thing for our country outside of an actual existential threat (of which none exist to my knowledge.)

159 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:40:35pm

re: #151 ProGunLiberal

I'm of the opinion, looking back on history, that Charles Sumner was correct regarding the South, and that, save the part on slavery, Sumner is still correct. The South continues to be backwards and uncivilized, especially in its dealings with minority populations.

Suggestion, you might want to stop thinking in broad generalities about huge groups of people.

160 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:41:07pm

In fact, I think it was DF who tried to convince me to vote anyway.

161 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:46:07pm

re: #159 Shvaughn

I refer you to Palomino's post #157

#157 palomino

In Alabama, John Kerry got 20% of the white vote in 2004. In 2008, when Obama did better across the country with nearly every group of voter, he got only 9% of the white vote in AL. I would also argue that had something to do with him being black.

162 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:47:18pm

re: #161 ProGunLiberal

I refer you to Palomino's post #157

#157 palomino

Doesn't change what I said.

163 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:51:36pm

re: #162 Shvaughn

The South tends to get a free pass though. It doesn't get enough criticism.

164 efuseakay  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:54:26pm

BTW, Breivik goes on trial very soon...

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

165 palomino  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:56:27pm

re: #125 Talking Point Detective

I didn't get the sense that many of them sat on the sidelines last election, or that even if any did, there's anything about this election that would draw them in. The enthusiasm gap has closed, and Romney has historically low favorability ratings for a Republican candidate at this point in the election cycle.

We're not talking about the active base here, those who are more driven by hatred of Obama. If any Republicans sat on the sidelines last election, it was probably the hardcore extremists who felt that McCain was too moderate for them. They might be just as likely to not vote for Romney.

I'm a born pessimist, so I'm not going to be counting any chickens, but I don't see numbers that back up your perspective. Do you have a link or something?

Sure, here's a guy from Gallup saying essentially that the portion of Republicans and right-leaners who are enthusiastic about voting for Romney is 35%, relatively low historically. Lower than McCain, Hillary, Obama, even Kerry. But the number of Republicans and right leaners enthusiastic about voting in this election is higher than among Dems.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

I'm a born pessimist too, which is why a couple of things prevent me from being too confident about Obama's reelection. First, the economic recovery, though it's probably the best to be expected under the circumstances, is rather slow and narrow. Second, Obama's approval ratings are at about 50-50; actually around 47-47. Historically such a rating does not put a sitting president in great shape for reelection, probably around a 50% chance. And, since I'm a glass half-empty kind of person, I'm not happy about the way things look.

166 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:01:35pm

Sergey. Come in please.

167 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:05:01pm

re: #166 Gus

Something up?

168 Shvaughn  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:05:07pm

re: #163 ProGunLiberal

The South tends to get a free pass though. It doesn't get enough criticism.

"The South" is not monolithic.

169 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:05:46pm

Sergey and I were going through an incident that happened on the road Jericho this morning. Wondering what happened to the military officer who slammed some guy in the face with an M-16. So. Wouldn't you know it. Here's the latest:

Israeli officer who attacked activist suspended
(AP) – 16 minutes ago

JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military says it has suspended a senior military officer filmed assaulting an unarmed activist protesting Israeli occupation policies in the West Bank.

In the video, Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner is seen smashing the Danish activist in the face with his M16 rifle.

The military said Monday that Eisner would be suspended while the incident is investigated.

The assault was posted on the Internet and broadcast on Israeli TV on Sunday.

It further tarnished Israel's image the same day the government suppressed a mass fly-in of pro-Palestinian protesters who had hoped to draw world attention to the Israeli occupation.

Dozens, if not hundreds, of activists were barred from boarding flights to Tel Aviv and dozens of others were denied entry after landing.

Yeah. I realize the wording here is a little strained "It further tarnished Israel's image..." Anyway. The positive side being that Israel took action.

170 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:07:14pm

re: #167 ProGunLiberal

Something up?

#169

171 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:07:47pm

Mitt speaks the truth?

Romney Specifies Deductions He'd Cut

[...]

The candidate said he didn't expect a fair fight in the media, saying he believed many commentators on television were liberals. He also said CNN reporter and host Wolf Blitzer was a good interviewer, and said Fox News had been good to him. Fox News is owned by News Corp., which also owns The Wall Street Journal.

"Fox is watched by the true believers," Mr. Romney said. "We need to get the independents and the women."

Mr. Romney said his campaign would rely on "earned media"—or making news the traditional way. He said he would be helped along by a team of surrogates as well as by initiatives on the Internet and Twitter.

[...]

172 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:09:21pm

re: #170 Gus

I sent that out before #169 came in.

173 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:19:18pm

re: #172 ProGunLiberal

I sent that out before #169 came in.

Couldn't tell. There it is with the AP editorializing. Clearly I'm not worthy of Freedom Fries. Let's invade.

174 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:20:12pm

re: #173 Gus

Did I do something wrong?

175 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:20:48pm

re: #174 ProGunLiberal

Did I do something wrong?

Nope.

176 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:22:06pm

re: #174 ProGunLiberal

Nah, it's the intertubes!
If KT can get a pass from Charles for his Hot Air Tricks,
well, we can all misbehave!

EDIT. P.S. Hi Gus!

177 sagehen  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:22:32pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

There's no reason for this to be so funny, but one of the NANO forums people has just commented that part of one of his NANO novels revolved around a headline reading "Vikings Sack San Marino" instead of "Vikings Sack Dan Marino".

The Huntington Gardens are very nice, but the rest of San Marino could only be improved by a berserker raid.

178 sagehen  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:23:17pm

re: #140 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I guess you didn't get the memo, Lincoln was a "race traitor" who started the "real decline" of this country by overstepping his constitutional authority in attempting to preserve the union thru war, while also destroying almost all concept of "States Rights" towards self-determination, blah, blah, blah...

You can read all about it over at Free republic if you need more information... :p

///

Or, y'know, in the Ron Paul newsletters.

179 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:27:55pm

The more fundamentalist of the SoCon GOP base aren't going to swallow the Mitt-milkshake:

Mormon Bishop Mitt Romney’s Anti-Christian Religion

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:29:38pm

re: #169 Gus

Thanks for the update.

181 Kragar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:30:10pm

re: #177 sagehen

The Huntington Gardens are very nice, but the rest of San Marino could only be improved by a berserker raid.

They have them.

182 Lidane  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:32:32pm

re: #178 sagehen

Or, y'know, in the Ron Paul newsletters.

Or on Lew Rockwell's site. (Google cache link)

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:33:01pm

re: #173 Gus

Here's a slightly longer clip. It doesn't seem as if the blond guy was provocative:

184 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:35:44pm

re: #183 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Here's a slightly longer clip. It doesn't seem as if the blond guy was provocative:

[Embedded content]

Ouch. Sucks. Lots of conscripts there too.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:39:03pm

re: #175 Gus

[Link: 972mag.com...]

22:15: Praise for Lt. Col. Eisner is flooding the Israeli social media, here and here [Heb] for example.

[...]

22:35: Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner is the son of late Rabbi Benny Eisner [Heb], an icon of religious Zionism who also lived in th “Jewish House” in Abu Tor, East Jerusalem.

[...]
23:15: Haaretz brings response of National Union MK Michael Ben Ari:

“Well done to the IDF officer who did what Bibi and Aharonovich have no brain or courage to do,” Ben Ari said. “Radical leftists must be handled with a heavy hand. There was a tangible threat to the lives of the soldiers and the officer had no other choice. If it was a settler who was beaten we would not have heard the cries of the hypocrites on the left. Turns out they are not interested in human rights but the rights of terrorists and pro-Arabs.”

[...]

23:33: Lt. Col. Eisner responds: “I shouldn’t have raised my weapon like that, but those were 6 seconds out of two hours. Of course they didn’t show the part where they attacked us with sticks.”
00:07: PM Benjamin Netanyahu: “This behavior is not characteristic of IDF soldiers and commanders and should not be allowed in the IDF or in Israel.”

Ben Ari is of course the guy whose deputy was coddling the Russian Nazis as I described in one of my pages.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:42:47pm

re: #185 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Also, there wasn't an *immediate* provocation, whatever might have happened earlier, so "attacked with sticks" and "tangible threat" seems more like UC Davis cops' excuse.

187 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:44:31pm

re: #185 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

[Link: 972mag.com...]

[...]

23:33: Lt. Col. Eisner responds: “I shouldn’t have raised my weapon like that, but those were 6 seconds out of two hours. Of course they didn’t show the part where they attacked us with sticks.”
00:07: PM Benjamin Netanyahu: “This behavior is not characteristic of IDF soldiers and commanders and should not be allowed in the IDF or in Israel.”

Ben Ari is of course the guy whose deputy was coddling the Russian Nazis as I described in one of my pages.

Hey that's fine with me. The only allies they'll have if they continue this type of behavior would be clueless Americans. The rest of the world notices especially the Europeans. Obviously Israel noticed that they fucked up big time here and took action which is good. Best to ignore these ignorant right wingers. Myself? I will continue to support a one state solution since it emulates the USA.

188 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:46:28pm
189 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:46:49pm

Haven't heard from him since.

190 Lidane  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:50:54pm

Just watched the series finale for Eastbound & Down. WTF.

No spoilers, but for a brief moment I thought they were going to go out in a truly ballsy way, but the last two minutes are such a cop out that it ruined the moment completely. Way to wuss out in the end, guys.

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:52:02pm

re: #187 Gus

Ouch. Now we will see "Gus wants to destroy Israel!" splattered everywhere ;)

Not that it's up to me, but I disagree with the one-state solution quite categorically. States consisting of several well-defined ethnic groups that don't care much for each other don't live long unless they're ruled by the iron fist (Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, what have you). So much more when the groups hate each other. USA is a very unique experiment that is hard to emulate, and given its history, perhaps it shouldn't be emulated. Moreover, in such a scenario at some point Palestinians will be outvoting Jewish Israelis, and the reality is such that there won't be anything good coming from that judging by the current average attitudes of Palestinians.

192 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:55:08pm

re: #191 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Ouch. Now we will see "Gus wants to destroy Israel!" splattered everywhere ;)

Not that it's up to me, but I disagree with the one-state solution quite categorically. States consisting of several well-defined ethnic groups that don't care much for each other don't live long unless they're ruled by the iron fist (Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, what have you). So much more when they hate each other. USA is a very unique experiment that is hard to emulate, and given its history, perhaps it shouldn't be emulated. Moreover, in such a scenario at some point Palestinians will be outvoting Jewish Israelis, and the reality is such that there won't be anything good coming from that judging by the current average attitudes of Palestinians.

I'm just one of those weird multiculturalists. I can dream. But I also accept reality at the same time and tend to mind my own business. I'm still waiting for my own PAC. Just watching everybody throw a fit for their own team while I have no team. Frankly I just see a bunch of whiners.

193 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:56:28pm
194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:57:21pm

re: #192 Gus

I'm as internationalist as they come. I'm a bleeding-heart for everybody. But I also have to acknowledge that "average ethnic culture" can matter sometimes, and that in this case the cultural clash will be such that it's unlikely that anything good will come out of it. I wish it wasn't so.

195 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 10:58:48pm

re: #194 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

I'm as internationalist as they come. I'm a bleeding-heart for everybody. But I also have to acknowledge that "average ethnic culture" can matter sometimes, and that in this case the cultural clash will be such that it's unlikely that anything good will come out of it. I wish it wasn't so.

I agree. I accept the retarded limitations of ethnic groups.

196 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 11:07:29pm

Extended comments from Eisner: [Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

197 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 11:24:43pm

re: #193 Gus

Creationists' First Time on the Internet


[Video]

There are a couple of guys who have a whole series called "Genesis Unleashed" which they put on Ultimatetube; your spoof reminded me of them.

Here's their latest: Can human extinction be stopped?

Mutations are leading the entire human race to extinction, at a rate that is incompatible with the notion that humans have been evolving for millions of years. Can something be done to stop or slow the rapid march to death? This episode again features Dr John Sanford and some main points from his brilliant summary of data from leading evolutionary human population geneticists. [...]

sigh....

198 Irenicum  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:05:09am

Having done a cursory appraisal of the posts on this thread, and not having been around here for some time, I must say I'm reminded of why I love this joint. Thank you Charles and thank you KT for your voice into the mess that is race relations. Having known that reality up close and personal in my own personal experiences, this tale is a very telling reminder of how racism can be expressed...

199 Mocking Jay  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:14:56am

re: #198 Irenicum

Having done a cursory appraisal of the posts on this thread, and not having been around here for some time, I must say I'm reminded of why I love this joint. Thank you Charles and thank you KT for your voice into the mess that is race relations. Having known that reality up close and personal in my own personal experiences, this tale is a very telling reminder of how racism can be expressed...

Holy crap, where the hell have you been?!?

200 Irenicum  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:18:34am

re: #199 Oblivious Troll

Haha. It has been a while. FB has kept me inordinately busy. It's essentially become my "homepage" of activity. That and G+ and Twitter. Gotsta luv social media...

201 Mocking Jay  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:22:06am

re: #200 Irenicum

Haha. It has been a while. FB has kept me inordinately busy. It's essentially become my "homepage" of activity. That and G+ and Twitter. Gotsta luv social media...

Good to see you again, at any rate.

202 Irenicum  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:28:58am

re: #201 Oblivious Troll

Thanks. I mostly post my social action/issue links to my social networks nowadays. It's amazing how busy that can get. My FB page has become quite the little hub of conversations. And thankfully it's been mostly civil.

203 RadicalModerate  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:38:52am

Well, I'm glad to see that SOMEONE in the mainstream media finally took notice of this.

Where's the outrage over Republican's 'communist' claim?

New York (CNN) -- "I have here in my hand a list of 205 communists ..."

The ghost of Joe McCarthy's ulcerous accusations hung over a disturbingly casual comment this past week by U.S. Rep. Allen West, R-Florida.

When asked by a constituent at a town hall, "What percentage of the American legislature do you think are card-carrying Marxists?"

"That's a fair question," West replied. "I believe there's about 78 to 81 members of the Democratic Party that are members of the Communist Party."

Keep in mind that this is the man Sarah Palin recently recommended be Mitt Romney's vice presidential nominee.

And not only did West not apologize -- or receive significant criticism from his fellow Republicans -- his revealing response was to raise funds off it.

204 AK-47%  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:50:48am

re: #203 RadicalModerate

Well, I'm glad to see that SOMEONE in the mainstream media finally took notice of this.

Where's the outrage over Republican's 'communist' claim?

Republicans like John Kyl and Rick Santorum have set the new standard that what they "feel in their hearts" to be true is enough to validate any claims they might make.

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:15:00am

The Breivik trial has begun.

206 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:15:12am

I doubt Allen West would know a "card carrying Marxist" if one sang right in front of him...

207 researchok  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:20:34am

Morning, all.

208 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:21:59am

Good morning Lizards!

Semi-graveyard shift in Philly this week. Warm already (over 60F) and quiet here at work.

Did a weekend trip to Pittsburgh over the weekend. Attended a dinner and also saw a bunch of friends. It's at the point that we no longer talk about who is getting married or who is expecting a child, but the news is more over which relative is dying or having health issues.

But we haven't gotten to the point that we're giving up beer and bacon.

The speaker at the dinner was a nuclear engineer who had a good talk about engineering and ethics. He also had a quote - "If God didn't create it, an engineer did."

:)

209 researchok  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:22:01am

re: #206 freetoken

Robeson?

210 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:25:56am

Damn, gotta finish with these all-nighters, but deadlines, deadlines...

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:26:22am

I don't mind Marxists. I do mind Stalinists...

212 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:28:36am

re: #209 researchok

yes

213 researchok  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:36:37am

re: #212 freetoken

Superb.

Great find

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:38:48am

re: #213 researchok

Superb.

Great find

If MPAA has its way, no more great finds here ;)

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 1:57:59am

I weep for the state of science education in the world today.

Just got through explaining at great length on another blog that no, if you're on the pill, you don't have to use condoms for the last week of the cycle just because the spacer pills contain no hormones.

%*#*(%(*#!!!!

217 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:08:55am

Good morning fellow commiepinkos.

218 researchok  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:11:22am

re: #217 Varek Raith

Good morning fellow commiepinkos.

You forgot godless heathens, you godless heathen.

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:11:56am

re: #217 Varek Raith

Good morning fellow commiepinkos.

Hey there, SpaceLenin.

220 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:14:16am

re: #219 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Hey there, SpaceLenin.

Can't I be SpaceStalin instead???

221 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:14:37am

re: #220 Varek Raith

Can't I be SpaceStalin instead???

I thought about that. The answer is no.

222 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:14:56am

re: #220 Varek Raith

Can't I be SpaceStalin instead???

On a second thought... Do you have a stache?

223 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:15:34am

re: #222 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

On a second thought... Do you have a stache?

I have a trimmed beard.

224 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:15:53am

re: #223 Varek Raith

I have a trimmed beard.

SpaceLenin.

225 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:16:40am

DAMMIT
:P

226 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:24:19am

re: #224 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

SpaceLenin.

Better than SpaceTrotsky. That sounds like some sort of strange null-G disorder.

227 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:24:39am

What is 'SpaceLenin' in Russian?

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:24:54am

re: #227 Varek Raith

What is 'SpaceLenin' in Russian?

КосмоЛенин

229 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:28:06am

re: #228 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

КосмоЛенин

Click my avatar.
:)

230 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:35:09am

re: #229 Varek Raith

Click my avatar.
:)

Now to find SpaceKaplan... Sith problem solved!

231 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:46:34am

re: #230 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Now to find SpaceKaplan... Sith problem solved!

232 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:48:14am

Charles,

I frequently disagree with you. That is one of the reasons I continue to read LGF even as it has tended away from the conservative side of the blogosphere.

Anyone who thoughtfully follows this blog has to come away with one main impression: Transparency. You have been scrupulous in preserving LGF for many years, ensuring previous blog posts remain available regardless of whether your views have changed.

The blogosphere, politics and most human interaction could be improved if everyone followed your example. Thanks for the great work!

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:50:56am

re: #232 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Charles,

I frequently disagree with you.

I don't know why I'm even responding. Obviously you have just been banned!!1

///

234 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:56:20am

re: #233 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

I don't know why I'm even responding. Obviously you have just been banned!!1

///

Worst Flounce EVAR!!
//

235 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:58:41am

re: #234 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Worst Flounce EVAR!!
//

Indeed.
Next time, drop some f-bombs and some refs to magical jazz hats.
Or something.

236 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:59:59am

WTF is a jazz hat anyway?
/

237 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:02:40am

I am spending an hour or so this morning explaining to an incompetent person how their fuckups cost me more hours of work.

Oh yeah, this is a great use of my time.

238 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:05:15am

re: #237 Obdicut

I am spending an hour or so this morning explaining to an incompetent person how their fuckups cost me more hours of work.

Oh yeah, this is a great use of my time.

Heh. I just emailed an analyst in Germany to tell him that getting a request from him to unlock and reset his password every other day is quite annoying. I am not sure how that is going to go over.

239 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:07:33am

re: #236 Varek Raith

WTF is a jazz hat anyway?
/

That seems like a trap...

240 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:07:46am

re: #238 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I feel bad because when I'm blazing through work and typing too fast I sometimes lock myself out every couple of of weeks or so.

But that's still reasonably rare. I haven't had that happen in four or five months.

241 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:09:19am

re: #239 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Really random question: Do the Navy guys feel any kinship towards astronauts? I know they 'fly', but their situation-- in a vessel out in the middle of an inherently dangerous environment where they need to be self-reliant an take care of a lot of very technical shit constantly to keep stuff working-- seems highly related.

242 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:10:20am

Hey Sergey, say "Nuclear vessels".

243 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:11:58am

re: #240 Obdicut

I feel bad because when I'm blazing through work and typing too fast I sometimes lock myself out every couple of of weeks or so.

But that's still reasonably rare. I haven't had that happen in four or five months.

The occassional lock-out is not that annoying. That he has forgotten the password (or at least claims to) each time as well is what pisses me off. There is a synchronization process, but he has messed it up so that they won't re-synchronize unless he goes through a complete password reset (network, applications, etc.)

And since he's in as a troubleshooting consultant I don't have much redress regarding dealing with him.

244 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:12:10am

re: #241 Obdicut

Really random question: Do the Navy guys feel any kinship towards astronauts? I know they 'fly', but their situation-- in a vessel out in the middle of an inherently dangerous environment where they need to be self-reliant an take care of a lot of very technical shit constantly to keep stuff working-- seems highly related.

I would say yes. Many of the most famous astronauts were Naval Aviators, so there is quite a kinship just along those lines. There is also a strong kinship for the reasons you list above.

Just think, the United States used to be technologically advanced enough to send people into space! Then we outsourced manned space flight to Russia...

245 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:13:07am

re: #242 Obdicut

Hey Sergey, say "Nuclear vessels".

NO.

246 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:13:27am

I've got to get moving toward my schoolin'. I'll check in from FT McNair.

Later Honcos!

247 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:13:50am

re: #244 Darth Vader Gargoyle

I would say yes. Many of the most famous astronauts were Naval Aviators, so there is quite a kinship just along those lines. There is also a strong kinship for the reasons you list above.

Just think, the United States used to be technologically advanced enough to send people into space! Then we outsourced manned space flight to Russia...

Stupid congress.

248 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:14:30am

re: #242 Obdicut

Hey Sergey, say "Nuclear vessels".

Heh. I was in Wesseling over in Germany and they pronounced it "Vesseling" to my ear. :D

249 AK-47%  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:16:12am

re: #242 Obdicut

Hey Sergey, say "Nuclear vessels".

Say "Horst Vessels"...

250 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:18:04am

re: #242 Obdicut

Hey Sergey, say "Nuclear vessels".

In Russian you mean? If by nuclear vessels you mean the ones with nuclear power plants, then атомоходы (pl.) / атомоход (s.)

251 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:22:25am
253 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:31:51am

Ah. I see today is already going to be an "I have my job" day. Not even 7am and I'm already in a circular argument with a consultant about access.

"Is there an alternative way to do this?" gets answered "No" and then five minutes later he says, "Well, we can also trying using X since it's the same thing essentially."

Grrrr...

254 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:39:20am

re: #250 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

In Russian you mean? If by nuclear vessels you mean the ones with nuclear power plants, then атомоходы (pl.) / атомоход (s.)

Heh. No, it's just a dumb joke from Star Trek IV, where the Russian crewmate pronounced nuclear vessels as "nuclear wessels', and was asking for directions to them in San Francisco-- during the Cold War.

255 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:45:24am

re: #254 Obdicut

I've seen it many, many years ago, before the internet, so in Russian translation. I didn't know there was such a joke there.

256 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:46:21am
Guy with Russian accent wants to get to your nuclear vessels. Seems legit.
vtc193 3 months ago
257 AK-47%  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:47:34am

"Egermency, Egermency! Please to be getting from street!"

-Remember that film?

258 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:53:34am

re: #257 Expand Your Ground

No.

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:54:20am

There's a groovy LJ community devoted to gathering the cheesy depictions of Russianness in foreign culture:

[Link: ru-klukva-ru.livejournal.com...]

260 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:57:40am

Looks to be a profitable time for antiquity thieves in Greece:

Austerity plan decapitates Greek heritage

261 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:58:08am

re: #259 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Most of the Russians I knew growing up were academics, so the stereotype of the boisterous, militaristic, etc. Russian was always weird to me.

Image: glebov--article_image.jpg

262 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:02:59am

Hehe.

Try to go to google's main site, enter "x have", where X is ethnicity/nationality/other group characteristic and look at the suggested results.

For Russians it's Image: russians_have.PNG

263 Tigger2005  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:03:43am

re: #260 freetoken

Looks to be a profitable time for antiquity thieves in Greece:

Austerity plan decapitates Greek heritage

Without tourism what else have they got?

264 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:06:28am

re: #259 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

There's a groovy LJ community devoted to gathering the cheesy depictions of Russianness in foreign culture:

[Link: ru-klukva-ru.livejournal.com...]

A group I know via the net had a get together a few years ago in Chicago. The Russian member who attended did not understand why we kept trying to get him to say "moose and squirrel".

(We eventually did succeed.)

267 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:21:34am

re: #266 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Image: 000367qw.jpg

Interesting.
"Who will protect us from this monstrous wind?"

"War is the solution."

268 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:21:39am

AWESOME

269 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:22:27am

re: #266 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Wow, no antisemitic markers. Amazing.

270 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:22:31am

re: #267 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

[Link: www.keiththompsonart.com...]

271 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:25:20am

Yes, really:

Brazil court OKs abortions for brainless fetuses

Brazil's supreme court has voted to authorize abortions in cases of fetuses with no brains.

Abortion is illegal in Brazil except when a pregnancy threatens the life of the mother and in cases of rape. The Supreme Federal Tribunal's 8-2 vote Thursday now decriminalizes abortions involving anencephalic fetuses.

Such fetuses develop without brains and cannot survive outside the womb for more than a few minutes. Most die before birth. Brazil has a high rate of such cases, with 10 out of every 10,000 pregnancies.

Brazil is the world's most populous Roman Catholic country and religious groups staged vigils outside the court and in other cities opposing a ruling to allow such abortions.

Totally inviable, unable to think or process sensory information, and yet the anti-abortionists still want to pretend such fetuses are worth keeping.

272 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:26:40am

re: #271 freetoken

God might suddenly miraculously put a working brain into the fetus. On the other hand, God might suddenly transform the carrot I'm about to eat into a thinking human being, too.

273 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:27:02am

re: #271 freetoken

Yeah, well, these people are empathetic - they have no brains too. /

275 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:28:12am

re: #272 Obdicut

God might suddenly miraculously put a working brain into the fetus. On the other hand, God might suddenly transform the carrot I'm about to eat into a thinking human being, too.

Or even into a comedian...

276 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:30:42am

There are, however, even more stupider (yeah, I know), more revolting things on the net this morning.

Sort of like at Free Republic, where someone has posted a screed titled "We Are All George Zimmerman", or to their defense of a Dade Fire dept. captain who was raving Freeper-like on his Facebook account (see the story Miami-Dade fire captain on Zimmerman charges: Blame 'sh*tbag' parents of 'our urban youth')

277 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:32:56am

re: #274 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Varek, this is you.

Image: last_words_of_ponimir_ilyich_lenin_by_ritualist-d4itr5d.jpg

I am *so* sending that to my friend's wife who collects My Little Pony.

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:36:14am

re: #276 freetoken

Sultan Knish, I see.

279 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:37:33am

And just to be impartiality, now for some Hindu stupidity:


Clashes at beef-eating festival in south India

A beef-eating festival at a university in southern India triggered clashes between rival students as Hindu activists fought with low-caste Dalit groups who had organised the event.

Police fired teargas on Sunday evening to break up the fighting, in which at least five people were injured and two vehicles were set ablaze at the Osmania University in the city of Hyderabad.

Hindus, the religious majority in India, regard cows as sacred and the animals are often used in temple ceremonies as well as allowed to wander at will through the country's busy towns and markets.

In the traditional Hindu caste system, Dalits (formerly known as 'untouchables') are considered the lowest of low castes, and some Dalit groups reject Hindu religious practices such as the ban on eating beef.

Beef biryani and other beef dishes were served to 200 people at the festival before about 50 students belonging to a right-wing Hindu group tried to enter the venue, police said.

"The organisers told us that they were not going to cook beef on the campus but were only bringing in cooked food from outside," senior officer Y. Gangadhar told AFP.

"There was some stone-pelting forcing us to throw teargas shells to bring the situation under control."

The event, the first of its kind at the university, was to campaign for beef to be included on menus at student hostel accommodation.

"It is unfortunate that people who consume beef are looked down upon by the upper castes, but for centuries beef has been part of our diet," B. Sudarshan, a Dalit research scholar and festival organiser, told AFP.

"What is wrong in consuming beef? Those opposed to it can advise people not to have beef but they can't force their diktat on us."

Hyderabad student politics have a history of violent confrontation, with previous clashes over the proposed creation of Telangana state, which would be carved out of the present state of Andhra Pradesh.

The city has attracted major investment from global firms such as Microsoft and Google and is a symbol of India's emerging economy, but also suffers from deep inter-religious tension.

Many Indian states have introduced various jail terms for cow slaughter in recent years in a trend seen as reflecting radical Hindu views and anti-Muslim sentiment.

Sigh...

280 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:38:51am

re: #278 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Sultan Knish, I see.

I guess. Last thing I have time to spend upon is tracking the originators of such ugliness. All I know is that there is a sea of it out there, and this is humanity in all its glory: territorial, tribal, and violent.

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:42:22am

re: #277 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I am *so* sending that to my friend's wife who collects My Little Pony.

Then there's this:

Image: pony_defeat_at_stalliongrad_by_curtsibling-d4rqbg1.jpg

283 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:42:41am

re: #280 freetoken

I'd actually say a large part of the problem is that we're no longer tribal. We no longer are aware of the dependencies we have on each other, or the effects we have on each other. Things are too disparate, action and result is highly separated and conceptual.

284 freetoken  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 4:45:00am

re: #283 Obdicut

Well, okay, but we've become all the more territorial, and our violence has become more efficient.

285 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 5:28:40am

Whoo-hoo, I'm finally under 180 pounds.

286 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:14:54am

re: #285 Obdicut

Which part of you body?
/

287 dragonfire1981  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:15:10am

OT but I'm curious. How many of you find this image offensive?

Image: pretend+im+a+tree.jpg

288 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:15:50am

re: #287 dragonfire1981

Image doesn't work.

289 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:16:50am

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I can agree. It is possible to be conservative without being a racist.

Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner (didn't see it).

I wasn't meaning to imply that all conservatives are racist. However:

(1) I've known conservatives who don't judge individuals by the color of their skin, but who are unaware of or indifferent to the discriminatory implications of the policies they support. In other words, at least IMO, they can't give a coherent argument as to why the policies they support effectively deal with racial inequities that exist.

(2) Those who can give a coherent argument to support their views don't tend to hang out and post a places like HotAir or other frightwing websites. Do you post at sites like that? If not, why not?

When someone posts an explicitly racist comment, they rarely get called on it - and I think that if you simply delete the explicitly racist terms, most often the underlying arguments are essentially identical to the majority of the posts.

290 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:18:51am

re: #289 Talking Point Detective

In other words, if your arguments are essentially the same as someone who is overtly racist, shouldn't that tell you something? It's like saying that you don't support Derbyshire's racism, but you agree with his intellectual analysis of racial issues. That doesn't make sense. His analysis of racial issues is based on a foundation of racism.

291 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:28:29am

re: #171 freetoken

Mitt speaks the truth?

Romney Specifies Deductions He'd Cut

The candidate said he didn't expect a fair fight in the media, saying he believed many commentators on television were liberals. He also said CNN reporter and host Wolf Blitzer was a good interviewer, and said Fox News had been good to him.

More of the ridiculous victimhood complex we've come to expect from the selfish rich assholes of the right-wing extremist GOP. He's going to do an interview with Diane Sawyer tonight, and even though I know it's pointless, I couldn't help but respond to this:

That #askRomney hashtag does contain some epic lulz, but if Sawyer's interview is anything more than a pointless, fawning puff piece, I'll have to pick my jaw up off the floor.

292 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 6:48:36am

Media observation-Today is Emancipation day.

Would it have even been mentioned if it did not effect tax day? The media seems to ignore this historic holiday.

293 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:03:17am

re: #292 Daniel Ballard

Not in the slightest, but because it is a DC holiday and states generally conform to the federal income tax due date, they will shift their state income tax due date to match the federal date - and in a way it means that everyone hears about Emancipation Day, even if they don't completely understand what it's all about.

295 AK-47%  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:09:17am

re: #294 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Teenage mutant papirosy?

296 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:09:48am

Whew.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:09:55am

re: #295 Expand Your Ground

Teenage mutant papirosy?

Partizany.

299 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:10:55am

re: #295 Expand Your Ground

Teenage mutant papirosy?

Heroes of the Soviet Half-Shell.

300 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:15:32am
301 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:16:06am

Nice calendar with global warming: [Link: www.tarusov.blogspot.com...]

302 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:16:11am

I see denial has taken hold with the Karzai government in Afghanistan. The recent Taliban offense is the fault of NATO and western intelligence failures.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:24:05am

re: #304 Gus

Anders Breivik doing his "white fist of power" in the courtroom.

This should be seen as a "threatening gesture" I'm just sayin'.

306 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:25:43am

re: #305 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

This should be seen as a "threatening gesture" I'm just sayin'.

Stretching exercises? Maybe tai chi? Would probably be outright prohibited in Germany. Judge in the USA would tell him to "knock it off."

307 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:27:21am

re: #304 Gus

Anders Breivik doing his "white fist of power" in the courtroom.

Seen it too many times in old news reels, just with the hand open flat, palm down.

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:27:42am

re: #306 Gus

Stretching exercises? Maybe tai chi? Would probably be outright prohibited in Germany. Judge in the USA would tell him to "knock it off."

Yah, well, you know, a sudden hand gesture like that - maybe he tried to hit someone? Deserves a kick in the kidneys. /

309 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:28:29am

re: #302 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I see denial has taken hold with the Karzai government in Afghanistan. The recent Taliban offense is the fault of NATO and western intelligence failures.

Of course it is!

Karzai is seeing the writing on the wall. He's setting up his "plausible deniablity" once NATO leaves
(Karzai to the Taliban leadership"

"Guys,, it's great having you back,, I've been keeping thinks copastetic for you since those bastard westerners invaded"

310 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:29:23am
311 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:29:46am

re: #306 Gus

Stretching exercises? Maybe tai chi? Would probably be outright prohibited in Germany. Judge in the USA would tell him to "knock it off."

A tribute to the 1968 US Olympians!?!?

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

312 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:29:59am

re: #307 RayFerd

Seen it too many times in old news reels, just with the hand open flat, palm down.

Yo Anders! Yer doin' it wrong!

//

313 teresa  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:30:11am

As someone who is very new here and who has only been reading LGF for around one year, this is an interesting story. I've been battling this kind of thing at Salon for several years now. It is why I branched out to find blogs that believe in real, honest to god moderation!
The unfortunate thing about unmoderated comment sections, is that people know they can get away with anything they want to. They can write BS and IRL no one knows what a racist-misogynist fuck that person may be.
The thing about my side, the liberal side, is that I was shocked to find out how many people, who consider themselves progressive, are actual racists. Living in my own world, I suppose, I didn't think this kind of thing went on at so-called liberal blogs too. And I think it is always the result of not moderating the blog comments. I can use Salon as my example because it is what finally got me to quit reading comments at Salon. In fact I don't read Salon as much anymore. I'd been there since 1998, when it was an EZine that you had to pay for to read. And it was good back then too. Real investigative journalism, they outed Henry Hyde, it was grand too, to see a tool like that fall off his high horse. But that is the past.
Once this President was elected, things changed at Salon, big time. And it shocked me. It all began with Greenwalds commenters who more often than not as of January 21st, 2009, the "out there" comments began. Things changed because it became acceptable to wrap comments in racism. It mostly began with progressives who referred to the President as an Uncle Tom, and from there it devolved to some folks throwing around the "N" word. I was shocked. Criticism is fine, racism wrapped in criticism, not so much. I haven't been back to a Greenwald column since then.
So now I read, but avoid the comments for the most part, unless of course I am feeling like troll stomping, (I think I would have to have a few drinks like Mr. Trout!)
Unmoderated comment sections are the worst. And when blog owners fail to moderate their blogs, it is either because they feel the same way, or that page view sickness has taken over their lives.

314 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:30:30am

re: #311 sattv4u2

A tribute to the 1968 US Olympians!?!?

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

Power to the... something.

315 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:31:08am

Iranian nuclear scientists were present at failed North Korean missile launch, says source

Anonymous diplomatic source tells South Korea's state news agency 12 Iranian officials observed the failed missile launch last week in North Korea.

316 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:31:22am

re: #308 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Yah, well, you know, a sudden hand gesture like that - maybe he tried to hit someone? Deserves a kick in the kidneys. /

I was thinking I bet someone wants to leap from their chair in that courtroom and...

318 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:31:58am
319 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:33:50am

re: #316 Gus

I was thinking I bet someone wants to leap from their chair in that courtroom and...

Actually I hope not. He should be tried, sentenced, humiliated.

320 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:34:14am
321 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:34:27am

re: #319 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Actually I hope not. He should be tried, sentenced, humiliated.

Don't worry. My mind beams are not very effective. ;)

322 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:35:16am
323 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:36:33am
324 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:37:25am

Truth or Consequences
by Joe Hagan
May 2012

Eight years ago, Dan Rather broadcast an explosive report on the Air National Guard service of President George W. Bush. It was supposed to be the legendary newsman’s finest hour. Instead, it blew up in his face, tarnishing his career forever and casting a dark cloud of doubt and suspicion over his reporting—and that of every other journalist on the case. This month, as Rather returns with a new memoir, Joe Hagan finally gets to the bottom of the greatest untold story in modern Texas politics, with exclusive, never-before-seen details that shed fresh light on who was right, who was wrong, and what really happened.

Keep reading dude...

325 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:41:12am

re: #320 RayFerd

Curveball at it again?

Hard to tell. There have been rumors that Iran has been involved in N Korea's nuclear tests in the past.
Here's the NYT from 2010
Iran Fortifies Its Arsenal With the Aid of North Korea
I don't think the relationship between Iran and N Korea is much of a secret so I wouldn't be terribly surprised to learn they were at the launch.

326 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:41:20am

Haven't read that. Anyway looked at the end. Still can't believe people actually think that Bush landed that Viking on the USS Abraham Lincoln. That takes a couple years of training and they certainly wouldn't have left it to a president with no training on this. USAF/NG training in an F-102 does not equal carrier landing training. The dummies fell for an old military PR stunt. Americans.

328 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:41:57am

re: #313 teresa

#1,,, welcome

#2,,, The thing about my side, the liberal side, is that I was shocked to find out how many people, who consider themselves progressive, are actual racists.
Thanks for the honesty. BOTH sides have their problems (I would be considered on the 'opposite" side of you and the racists on "my" side disgust me also)

#3,,, I think I would have to have a few drinks like Mr. Trout
Knowing "Mr. Trout, you'll have to buy!!!

329 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:43:26am

re: #327 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Image: 6be023ca1cb0bd0a4455301251cb078a.jpg

Hot! Looks like it's part lingerie catalog.

"Mom! Where's the Sears and Roebuck catalog?!?"

//

330 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:45:31am

Russian Sin Stockades!

331 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:45:38am

re: #304 Gus

Anders Breivik doing his "white fist of power" in the courtroom.

332 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:46:10am

re: #325 Killgore Trout

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to learn they were at the launch.

Well,, with NORK's paucity of food, we know Iran wasn't there for the LUNCH!!

"More tree bark, dinnerjacket?"

333 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:47:41am

re: #331 Interesting Times

Front view...

Image: 1f9b473542918e22edde44ba6a8e.jpg

334 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:49:25am

Fjordman must be so proud.

335 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:50:27am

re: #333 Gus

Front view...

Image: 1f9b473542918e22edde44ba6a8e.jpg

The hair style ,,,, now where have I seen that before??
hmmmm

336 teresa  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:51:02am

re: #328 sattv4u2
1. Thanks for the welcome.
2. I really was shocked that people who referred to themselves as progressives, went there, no problem. I hate that! I kind of ruined Salon for me. I feel that when people revert to racism, it is a sign of a very weak, easily manipulated mind.
3. Well then, the Jameson is on me!

337 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:51:08am

re: #335 sattv4u2

The hair style ,,, now where have I seen that before??
hmmm

"Boxcar" Trump?

338 darthstar  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:51:34am

Mornin' everyone...drive by post here...need to go run my dogs and head to work...I see Breivik is claiming self-defense. That should keep the internets active for a few days.

339 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:56:15am

re: #338 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...drive by post here...need to go run my dogs and head to work...I see Breivik is claiming self-defense. That should keep the internets active for a few days.

Since his legal strategy is all in his manifesto, there's little to be surprised about in the first few days. I suppose for the rest of the trial he will either not co-operate or will read long speeches.

340 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:58:54am

re: #323 Gus

Has LGF's greatest hits been removed from the sidebar? I don't see it there anymore.

341 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:59:49am

re: #336 teresa

1. Thanks for the welcome.
2. I really was shocked that people who referred to themselves as progressives, went there, no problem. I hate that! I kind of ruined Salon for me. I feel that when people revert to racism, it is a sign of a very weak, easily manipulated mind.
3. Well then, the Jameson is on me!

It's a bit early for me but "Cheers!"

342 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:01:42am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Has LGF's greatest hits been removed from the sidebar? I don't see it there anymore.

If you don't see it, it has been removed.

343 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:02:16am

re: #313 teresa

The thing about my side, the liberal side, is that I was shocked to find out how many people, who consider themselves progressive, are actual racists. Living in my own world, I suppose, I didn't think this kind of thing went on at so-called liberal blogs too

You have a "proud member of the League of the South" in your list of "favorite blogs".

344 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:02:31am

re: #342 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

If you don't see it, it has been removed.

Bummer. Oh well.

345 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:04:35am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Has LGF's greatest hits been removed from the sidebar? I don't see it there anymore.

Didn't find it with a search myself. Probably. Interesting read though since it talks about the Killian documents.

346 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:04:40am

re: #344 Killgore Trout

Lizards shed skin, it's normal.

347 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:05:55am

re: #329 Gus

A fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff. /Major Kong

348 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:08:18am
349 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:10:05am

re: #348 Varek Raith

In case you missed this, this is for you:

Image: last_words_of_ponimir_ilyich_lenin_by_ritualist-d4itr5d.jpg

350 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:10:16am
351 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:11:00am

re: #350 Gus

He misstyped, he meant to say 'urbane'. It's the monocle-wearing crowd he's mad at.

/

352 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:11:38am

Uh, somebody is butthurt.

353 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:11:40am

You'd think they would link to his Facebook page after mentioning it. What is it with these "journalists"?

354 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:11:44am

Breivik seems to think that the courts don't have jurisdiction over him, but he's got a real perverted sense of justice if he thinks that his mass murder spree is somehow self-defense. The court isn't going to look too kindly on that, and it will be further interesting to see if, and how quickly, the right wing in the US moves to distance themselves from Breivik, even as they're busy claiming that multiculturalism and Islamists are hell-bent on corrupting the society (takeover/subsume/degrade, etc.) in question.

After three psychological examinations, two early ones claimed to find him insane, but the third found him competent to stand trial. I'm inclined to think he's competent to stand trial. Having outrageous and extremist political views doesn't make a person insane. He clearly had intent to kill in furtherance of those political views. He seems to know right from wrong - namely that he thought it was wrong for the aforementioned multiculturalism/assimilation, and he was doing something about it. He considered the wrong of killing those innocent kids on Utoya to be the lesser of evils - that he was going for the greater good - at least that's how I'm reading what he intends to do if this goes to trial.

And if he tries that route, he most certainly and properly will be found guilty of murder.

355 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:11:59am

re: #352 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Uh, somebody is butthurt.

Hayward?

356 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:12:00am

Good morning all.
Page break?
10 beautiful images from space in the infrared spectrum.

357 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:12:45am

re: #355 Gus

This is how I figure you don't have the Spy open :P

358 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:14:02am

re: #357 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

This is how I figure you don't have the Spy open :P

STOP THE SUSPENSE!!!!
:P

359 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:14:13am

re: #357 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

This is how I figure you don't have the Spy open :P

It's open.

360 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:14:49am

Or as we used to call it... Hayweird.

361 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:15:18am

re: #359 Gus

It's open.

This is how you figure I have no idea who that guy is ;)

362 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:16:10am

Oh, it's not a guy.

363 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:16:16am

re: #361 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

This is how you figure I have no idea who that guy is ;)

I fall to pieces...

364 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:16:43am

I'm lost.

365 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:16:50am

re: #363 Gus

Well, sorry I didn't know some obscure university! /

366 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:01am

Copy.

367 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:02am

re: #364 Varek Raith

I'm lost.

Drink.

368 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:03am

re: #362 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Oh, it's not a guy.

Purportedly.

369 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:12am

Over.

370 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:23am

re: #368 wrenchwench

No, I mean 'Hayward'.

371 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:30am

re: #368 wrenchwench

Purportedly.

Allegedly.

372 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:43am

re: #370 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

No, I mean 'Hayward'.

So do I.

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:17:48am

re: #371 Gus

Allegedly.

Supposedly.

374 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:18:16am

I'm so gonna go Death Star on your asses.
What's going on?

375 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:18:41am

re: #372 wrenchwench

So do I.

Oops, I think I read you wrong there.

I plead confusion.

376 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:18:50am

Occupy Protester Arrested For Allegedly Assaulting NYPD Officer With Metal Pipe

According to police, the two men who were arrested in front of the Sixth Street Community Center last night allegedly assaulted an NYPD sergeant with a metal pipe in front of the Starbucks on Astor Place. One of the men, 41-year-old Alexander Penley, is an attorney and has been an Occupy Wall Street organizer since the movement began in the fall.
....
Penley has been quoted in stories about Occupy Wall Street in The Guardian and USA Today, and appeared on the local Manhattan television show Let Them Talk in October.
An NYPD spokesman said that officers received a report around 9 p.m. that a "disorderly group" had gathered in front of the Starbucks at Lafayette and Astor Place. A video transmission detailing that an officer needed assistance followed, and police found "individuals hitting the window of the establishment." When a sergeant attempted to intervene and make an arrest, "the crowd became unruly," and he was allegedly struck with a metal pipe by two men.
The officer sustained minor injuries to his hands and knees, and was taken to a local hospital before being released. The two men fled.

377 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:18:50am

re: #374 Varek Raith

I'm so gonna go Death Star on your asses.
What's going on?

We're tweaking you. It's a plot.

378 Lidane  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:19:25am

Good luck with that. The bigots and Sheriff Joe supporters of the GOP won't like this:

Romney Sees Need For GOP Dream Act

Cue the cries of "Amnesty!" from the wingnuts in 3...2...1...

379 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:19:31am

Damn it. Now I forgot all about Captain Derp.

380 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:19:32am

It's been some time without OWS.

381 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:20:03am

re: #380 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

It's been some time without OWS.

Office of Wingnut Science

382 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:21:54am

Last year:

SIOUX CITY, Iowa — Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney says he would veto legislation that would allow certain illegal residents to become American citizens.

During a campaign stop in western Iowa, Romney answered "yes" when he was asked whether he would refuse to sign what is known as the DREAM Act.

383 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:22:06am

re: #370 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Are you giving the HAL9000 instructions again. You know what happens when you do that. Things go wrong. Very wrong. /Dr. Chandra

384 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:23:40am

re: #378 Lidane

Good luck with that. The bigots and Sheriff Joe supporters of the GOP won't like this:

Romney Sees Need For GOP Dream Act

Cue the cries of "Amnesty!" from the wingnuts in 3...2...1...

...

That damn librul Rotney and his Califaztlan and La Raza lovin' policy making. There's no difference between Barrack HUSSEIN Obama and Mitt Rotney. Why Rotney is part Mexicun hisself.

385 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:24:14am

re: #376 Killgore Trout

From what I've seen, he was part of the anarchist group that tried to make inroads at OWS at Zuccotti but got run off by the OWS crowd. Trying to say that he was an OWSer isn't completely honest.

He's clearly first and foremost an anarchist, and the ties to OWS are incidental at most.

386 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:24:57am

Zuccotti sounds like a pasta dish...

"Yeah, I'll have the baked Zuccotti..."

387 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:25:23am

re: #385 lawhawk

From what I've seen, he was part of the anarchist group that tried to make inroads at OWS at Zuccotti but got run off by the OWS crowd. Trying to say that he was an OWSer isn't completely honest.

He's clearly first and foremost an anarchist, and the ties to OWS are incidental at most.

He can't hear you, Dave.

388 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:25:28am

re: #382 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Last year:

Shake, shake, shake that Etch-a-Sketch!

389 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:25:57am

re: #386 Gus

OWS sounds like a medical abbreviation. "Open Wessels/ Surgery".

390 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:26:54am

re: #380 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

It's been some time without OWS.

It's been a while since they've done anything interesting.

391 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:27:54am

re: #390 Killgore Trout

The old war is ooover
And the new one's just beguuun

392 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:28:40am
393 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:28:40am

re: #385 lawhawk

From what I've seen, he was part of the anarchist group that tried to make inroads at OWS at Zuccotti but got run off by the OWS crowd. Trying to say that he was an OWSer isn't completely honest.

He's clearly first and foremost an anarchist, and the ties to OWS are incidental at most.

I think this is pretty clear....

One of the men, 41-year-old Alexander Penley, is an attorney and has been an Occupy Wall Street organizer since the movement began in the fall.

As far as I can tell that statement is accurate.

394 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:30:06am

Another type-A; high blood pressure; amped up; neurotic wingnut.

395 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:31:44am
396 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:32:54am

Good morning lizards!

397 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:38:51am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Other reports indicate that the police aren't sure if he's an OWSer, but they clearly seem to think he's tied in with the anarchists.

398 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:39:38am

re: #397 lawhawk

Googling shows him to be a prominent OWSer.

399 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:39:59am

Oh, and it seems that OWS is back out and protesting down by Wall Street. Might have to go and check it out (if I can get through the area if the NYPD is back at checking IDs to limit those actions, that is).

400 teresa  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:43:51am

re: #343 wrenchwench

Your going to need to get over, the fact that I read Larison. You don't have to like it, but you either have to get over it, or don't read any of my comments. It is as simple as that, if you think you are going to prove that I am not a liberal..good luck with that.

401 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:44:27am

re: #397 lawhawk

Other reports indicate that the police aren't sure if he's an OWSer, but they clearly seem to think he's tied in with the anarchists.

from the article...

Penley, 41, was arrested and charged with assault and inciting a riot after Saturday's incident, cops said.

Nicholas Thommen, 30, was also arrested and charged with assault and inciting a riot, and Eric Marchese, 24, was arrested and charged with criminal mischief and disorderly conduct.

During the scuffle, several police officers were assaulted with pipes, bottles, and physical force, cops said.

Looks like OWS folks to me.

402 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:46:25am

re: #401 Killgore Trout

from the article...

Looks like OWS folks to me.

Just two!
//

403 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:47:03am

re: #402 NJDhockeyfan

Just two!
//

You mean Weissberg and Derbyshire?

404 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:47:47am

re: #402 NJDhockeyfan

Just two!
//

False flag infiltrators!
/I admit I was dunk. One thing led to another and then.....

405 Lidane  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:48:43am

Romney offers policy details at closed-door fundraiser

Romney went into a level of detail not usually seen by the public in the speech, which was overheard by reporters on a sidewalk below. One possibility floated by Romney included the elimination of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Cabinet-level agency once led by Romney's father, George.

"I'm going to take a lot of departments in Washington, and agencies, and combine them. Some eliminate, but I'm probably not going to lay out just exactly which ones are going to go," Romney said. "Things like Housing and Urban Development, which my dad was head of, that might not be around later. But I'm not going to actually go through these one by one. What I can tell you is, we've got far too many bureaucrats. I will send a lot of what happens in Washington back to the states."

Asked about the fate of the Department of Education in a potential Romney administration, the former governor suggested it would also face a dramatic restructuring.

"The Department of Education: I will either consolidate with another agency, or perhaps make it a heck of a lot smaller. I'm not going to get rid of it entirely," Romney said, explaining that part of his reasoning behind preserving the agency was to maintain a federal role in pushing back against teachers' unions. Romney added that he learned in his 1994 campaign for Senate that proposing to eliminate the agency was politically volatile.

406 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:49:34am

re: #405 Lidane

Romney offers policy details at closed-door fundraiser

Seems like a totally decent future President to me. /

407 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:50:27am

One thing that sucks about twitter is that people are now uploading their videos to twitter hosting sites instead of youtube. I can't believe there's no video of these idiots rampaging through crowded NY streets. It's not on youtube, probably uploaded to some twiiter friendly hosting site where nobody can find it.

408 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:50:39am

re: #405 Lidane

Romney offers policy details at closed-door fundraiser

Funny. He's starting to sound more and more like Sarah Palin.

409 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:51:26am

re: #400 teresa

Your going to need to get over, the fact that I read Larison. You don't have to like it, but you either have to get over it, or don't read any of my comments. It is as simple as that, if you think you are going to prove that I am not a liberal..good luck with that.

I'm not trying to prove anything about you. You've made some great comments that show your liberal cred. But the fact that you consider Larison a "favorite" shows something too. I'm trying to figure out what. Is it a blind spot? A soft spot for paleo-liberal Catholics? An appreciation for his anti-war libertarianism?

I only bring it up when it seems at odds with what you say in a comment. Which I will continue to read and react to. Get over it.

410 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:51:34am

Breivik weeps:

[Link: news.sky.com...]

411 Lidane  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:54:47am

re: #408 Gus

Funny. He's starting to sound more and more like Sarah Palin.

He pretty much has to. It's the only way he's going to convince anyone to vote for him.

I still say his VP will end up being someone who appeals to the nutjobs and doesn't have a political future. Anyone who's considering a run in 2016 is going to stay away because they don't want the taint of a loser if Romney goes down in flames.

412 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:54:55am

Well, by golly I'll make the Department of Education smaller. You betcha. -- Mitt Romney

413 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:55:42am

re: #354 lawhawk

I say, considering the rhetoric of the Republicans now, tie Breivik to the Republicans, and force the Republicans to defend him. Because they sure as hell won't denounce him.

414 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:57:01am

Israel touts new weapon against Hezbollah

JERUSALEM, April 16 (UPI) -- The Israeli military acquired new artillery shells that it says can target Hezbollah militants hiding in civilian infrastructure.

The Jerusalem Post reports that Israeli forces are set to acquire a new 120-millimeter artillery shell that has the ability to penetrate civilian infrastructure.

"Such a capability is believed to be crucial for the (Israeli military) as it faces future conflicts with Hezbollah and Hamas, both terrorist groups which embed themselves within civilian infrastructure, according to the military," the report states.

Nice.

415 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:57:39am

re: #412 Gus

Well, by golly I'll make the Department of Education smaller. You betcha. -- Mitt Romney

Image: 220px-Goofy.svg.png

416 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:58:13am

re: #405 Lidane

He'll close things that help the poor, in other words.

417 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 8:58:56am

re: #406 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Seems like a totally decent future President to me. /

It's closed door so you can't see them bitterly clinging to their guns, religion.
//

418 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:00:16am

re: #414 NJDhockeyfan

Israel touts new weapon against Hezbollah

Nice.

You do realize the wording there correct?

419 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:01:26am

Allow me:

JERUSALEM, April 16 (UPI) -- The Israeli military acquired new artillery shells that it says can target Hezbollah militants hiding in CIVILIAN infrastructure.

The Jerusalem Post reports that Israeli forces are set to acquire a new 120-millimeter artillery shell that has the ability to penetrate CIVILIAN infrastructure...

420 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:02:02am
421 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:03:47am

re: #419 Gus

Allow me:

Hezbollah were hiding in civilian homes along with shooting rockets from the houses the last time they attacked Israel. I hope these new weapons hit the terrorists without hitting the civilians.

422 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:06:18am

re: #419 Gus

Allow me:

Israel Goes After Gaza With GPS
They are switching to GPS targeting. Since Hezollah and Hamas use civilian buildings the more accurate targeting reduces collateral damage to the civilian population that the terrorists are using as human shields.

423 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:06:43am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

Hezbollah were hiding in civilian homes along with shooting rockets from the houses the last time they attacked Israel. I hope these new weapons hit the terrorists without hitting the civilians.

Must be some new fangled radar guided artillery shell I never heard of. Look, people will read that and see that Israel will be lobbing artillery shells into civilian structures. If you guys don't see the potential negative repercussions to that, regardless of who they're targeting, then I can't help that. I'm sure it will only be the hard line Israelis and Americans that won't read into the negative ramifications of this and the wording "civilians."

424 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:08:01am

re: #422 Killgore Trout

Israel Goes After Gaza With GPS
They are switching to GPS targeting. Since Hezollah and Hamas use civilian buildings the more accurate targeting reduces collateral damage to the civilian population that the terrorists are using as human shields.

Israel is trying to save as many civilians as possible when attacking the terrorists. The Palestinians are purposely aiming at civilians.

425 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:09:53am

re: #423 Gus

Must be some new fangled radar guided artillery shell I never heard of. Look, people will read that and see that Israel will be lobbing artillery shells into civilian structures. If you guys don't see the potential negative repercussions to that, regardless of who they're targeting, then I can't help that. I'm sure it will only be the hard line Israelis and Americans that won't read into the negative ramifications of this and the wording "civilians."

Israel gets negative press from the MSM and the UN no matter what they do. Their first objective is to protect their people.

426 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:11:49am

Charles! Maybe you can design some technology to prevent people from posting while drunk. Can a camera detect the accuracy of a nose touch? Or can you have someone trace a straight line with their mouse?

BTW: I leave for Israel on April 28th from Spain; Flying to Madrid on April 21st. I'll watch out for missiles!

How many of you all have been there?

427 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:13:36am

re: #425 NJDhockeyfan

Israel gets negative press from the MSM and the UN no matter what they do. Their first objective is to protect their people.

Yeah well. I don't apply "my country right or wrong" with the USA either so don't expect any blind allegiance from me.

428 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:16:00am

re: #426 ReamWorks SKG

Charles! Maybe you can design some technology to prevent people from posting while drunk. Can a camera detect the accuracy of a nose touch? Or can you have someone trace a straight line with their mouse?

Image: computer-error.jpg

429 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:18:06am

re: #426 ReamWorks SKG

Charles! Maybe you can design some technology to prevent people from posting while drunk. Can a camera detect the accuracy of a nose touch? Or can you have someone trace a straight line with their mouse?

BTW: I leave for Israel on April 28th from Spain; Flying to Madrid on April 21st. I'll watch out for missiles!

How many of you all have been there?

I've never been but it's high on my vacation list. I'm not religious but I love ancient history.

430 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:18:20am

re: #427 Gus

Yeah well. I don't apply "my country right or wrong" with the USA either so don't expect any blind allegiance from me.

Fortunately for us we aren't surrounded by much larger countries who want to annihilate everyone in our country.

431 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:20:29am

re: #430 NJDhockeyfan

Fortunately for us we aren't surrounded by much larger countries who want to annihilate everyone in our country.

Fortunately for me I will not be silenced nor imprisoned for my opinions on this matter.

432 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:21:46am

re: #431 Gus

Fortunately for me I will not be silenced nor imprisoned for my opinions on this matter.

No, you don't. Ain't our country great? Try doing that in Egypt, Syria, or Saudi Arabia.

433 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:23:16am

Here I am in the Golan Heights (last year) near the Syrian border. I'm the bald guy on the left.

Image: 5556391993_fd68e6b74a.jpg

It was interesting seeing my Cell Phone enumerate Syrian carriers for roaming coverage.

434 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:23:46am

re: #426 ReamWorks SKG

Charles! Maybe you can design some technology to prevent people from posting while drunk. Can a camera detect the accuracy of a nose touch? Or can you have someone trace a straight line with their mouse?

BTW: I leave for Israel on April 28th from Spain; Flying to Madrid on April 21st. I'll watch out for missiles!

How many of you all have been there?

Lived there from 1970-1974, then returned for multiple visits. My daughter lives in Safed.

435 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:24:08am

Think I'll go watch paint dry.

436 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:25:32am

re: #434 Learned Mother of Zion

?אתה מדבר עברית

437 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:28:01am

re: #436 ReamWorks SKG

?אתה מדבר עברית

Kein. Aval ani beavodah achshav, ain li Ivrit.

438 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:30:04am

re: #435 Gus

Think I'll go watch paint dry.

Or you can do something more interesting - try to keep the paint wet for as long as possible.

439 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:30:57am

Wastewater used to heat Philadelphia facility with new geothermal energy system

Google recently detailed how it uses recycled wastewater to cool the servers in its Georgia data center, but a company in Philadelphia is now going to be using sewage water to heat a building. NovaThermal Energy has installed a wastewater geothermal heating system in the basement of the Southeast Water Pollution Control Facility in Philadelphia in what the company is calling the technology's first deployment in the United States. The Philadelphia Water Company, of which the building is a part, manages the city's wastewater, stormwater — and somewhat ironically, its drinking water. The 1 million BTU per hour geothermal unit uses a water source heat pump, outfitted with a filtration device, to transfer heat directly from an adjacent sewage channel and turn it into electricity, providing heat for the building at an estimated cost savings of 50 percent.

Next they will be working on the new odor problem.

440 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:32:52am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Wastewater used to heat Philadelphia facility with new geothermal energy system

Next they will be working on the new odor problem.

New world odor.

441 iossarian  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:32:55am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Wastewater used to heat Philadelphia facility with new geothermal energy system

Next they will be working on the new odor problem.

Coal-fired power plants smell like roses and butterscotch.

442 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:33:10am

re: #432 NJDhockeyfan

No, you don't. Ain't our country great? Try doing that in Egypt, Syria, or Saudi Arabia.

How about he tries in Canada, Australia, India, Germany, Scotland, Japan, Sweden, Denmark, France, etc...?

443 Lidane  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:34:58am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Wastewater used to heat Philadelphia facility with new geothermal energy system

Next they will be working on the new odor problem.

If the commercials are anything to go by, they should just invest in a bunch of Febreze. =P

444 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:35:15am

re: #441 iossarian

Coal-fired power plants smell like roses and butterscotch.

And sulphur compounds cannot be filtered out of water, no sirree.

445 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:39:35am

Fuck Universal. These fuckers stopped the At the Mountains of Madness movie, and it could have been so fucking awesome.

447 Lidane  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:42:32am

re: #446 b_sharp

Looks like Anders Breivik has figured out the rwnj 'I'm just a poor victim of evil liberal policies' ploy.

His claim of self-defense is grossly offensive. WTF.

How does killing dozens of people because of your nutjob political beliefs count as self-defense? What, were they going to disagree with you and tell you that you're nuts?

448 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:45:28am

re: #425 NJDhockeyfan

Designing and fielding even more accurate weapons systems or different munitions systems that are designed to limit collateral damage are part of Israel's defensive and offensive strategies, but any time you're dealing with an enemy entrenched firmly behind and in civilian areas, you're going to have civilian casualties no matter what efforts are taken. Attacks are planned and conducted by groups like Hamas and Hizbullah from and within civilian areas precisely because the optic of civilian casualties is a propaganda tool against Israel.

Also, any such system is only as good as the targeting data and that can and does fail - it will hit the precise coordinates, but those coordinates are wrong, and instead of hitting terrorists, civilians are hit instead.

The terrorists know all this, but they continue to use civilians as human shields all around the world. Military forces like Israel are trying to limit those civilian casualties, but the only way those casualties will cease is when the terrorists give up those tactics and/or give up the ghost of the exterminating Israel meme that they feed to their followers (and where each terror group spins off the ever more radicals to engage in plausible deniability about such attacks).

449 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:47:03am

re: #426 ReamWorks SKG

I was just there in March. No worries about the missiles or rockets, unless you're within 10-20 miles of Gaza. If you're going towards Northern Israel (Tel Aviv/Jerusalem north) or Southern Israel (Beersheva or even Eilat), you don't really have anything to worry about. If you're on a tour, they do a good job of adjusting itineraries to avoid problem areas.

450 Lidane  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:49:49am

Looks like someone is angling to be Mitt Romney's VP:

Rick Perry to Unveil Budget Compact in Houston

In his first major policy initiative since leaving the presidential campaign trail, Gov. Rick Perry will call on his fellow Texas politicians today to sign on to a pledge to cut spending, hold the line on taxes and adopt strict limits on how much government can expand in the future.

451 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 9:50:58am

re: #449 lawhawk

I was just there in March. No worries about the missiles or rockets, unless you're within 10-20 miles of Gaza. If you're going towards Northern Israel (Tel Aviv/Jerusalem north) or Southern Israel (Beersheva or even Eilat), you don't really have anything to worry about. If you're on a tour, they do a good job of adjusting itineraries to avoid problem areas.

My friend's son who is in the IDF lives in a kibbutz near the Egypt/Gaza border. When his mom saw stories in the news of rocket being fired out of Gaza she got scared. He told her "Don't worry mom, we are too close. They go right over our heads."

452 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:01:04am

re: #447 Lidane

His claim of self-defense is grossly offensive. WTF.

How does killing dozens of people because of your nutjob political beliefs count as self-defense? What, were they going to disagree with you and tell you that you're nuts?

Somebody needs to tell this loon he's nuts, then stick him in a hole with bars until he croaks.

453 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:41:31am

re: #414 NJDhockeyfan

Israel touts new weapon against Hezbollah

Nice.

'Nice' is perhaps not the word, looking ahead as it does to more cross-border nastiness.

454 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:42:47am

re: #432 NJDhockeyfan

No, you don't. Ain't our country great? Try doing that in Egypt, Syria, or Saudi Arabia.

Israel, though, it works great.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:43:53am

re: #436 ReamWorks SKG

?אתה מדבר עברית

K'tsat meod. V'lo tov.

Also, I can't TYPE in Ivrit.

456 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:44:17am

re: #442 b_sharp

How about he tries in Canada, Australia, India, Germany, Scotland, Japan, Sweden, Denmark, France, etc...?

All fine nations.

457 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:46:41am

re: #456 SanFranciscoZionist

All fine nations.

Except possibly for Sweden. I know the Ikea stuff is really cheap and well-made and all, but I can't help thinking it's a plot of some kind.

458 Gus  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 10:47:11am

Wingnut memes are derpy.

459 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 2:34:07pm

re: #331 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

I'd be willing to bet that is the banned poster, Reginald Perrin.

460 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 16, 2012 3:44:56pm

re: #459 Dancing along the light of day

I'd be willing to bet that is the banned poster, Reginald Perrin.

Oh no, not at all - he happens to use a similar avatar, but he's a completely different person who's had his own online presence for some time: [Link: canadiancynic.blogspot.ca...]

461 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 5:37:02am

Is Patterico claiming that all/most of the racist comments found on rightwing websites have been planted by Charles or Killgore?

Then ban Charles/Killgore from commenting and moderate comments to ensure that racist comments are not posted.

Patterico is obviously not as dumb as his argument makes him seem. I am sure that he knows quite well that racists congregate on rightwing websites and that is reflected in their comment sections.


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